The Viall Files - E791 - New Bachelor is Announced! + Bach recap, It Ends With Us Drama, Olympics, and RHOC!

Episode Date: August 13, 2024

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap! Join us to talk about the Olympics’ closing ceremony, drama between Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni, Jenn’s Final Four, as well as Vicky Gunvalson Defending Shannon Beador. And of course, WE ANNOUNCE THE NEW BACHELOR! “I watched the video of the interview, it definitely came off passive aggressive.” Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Follow us on X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheViallFiles Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Huggies - Learn More At https://www.Huggies.com  Wayfair - It’s good to come home when you live in the Wayborhood. Visit https://www.Wayfair.com or download the Wayfair app. Chewy - Chewy has everything you need to keep your pet happy and healthy. And right now you can save $20 on your first order and get free shipping by going to https://www.chewy.com/viall Dreamland Baby - Go to https://www.dreamlandbabyco.com and enter our code VIALL at checkout to receive 20% off sitewide + free shipping. This offer is for new and existing customers! Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @ciaracrobinson @justinkaphillips @dereklanerussell  Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 02:54 - New Bachelor 05:57 - Olympics 24:40 - UK Love Is Blind 25:53 - It Ends With Us 46:42 - Love Island 52:18 - Vanderpump 59:20 - RHOC 01:18:07 - RHONJ 01:20:07 - Bachelorette 01:46:59 - Outro  

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I am your host, Nick, joined by the household. We're back in studio, we're back in LA. Well, I'm back, Nali's at home. Couldn't get a babysitter today, so Nellie's babysitting her daughter. Yeah, so Nellie's at home. I'm babysitting our daughter. Yeah, there we go.

I weirdly say that when I'm like, when Nellie, if I'm watching River, Nellie like leaves the house for whatever reason, like maybe she'll have dinner with friends or maybe she'll just do some shopping. I'm always like, I'll be like, whoever I'm talking to, I'm like, yeah, I'm at home babysitting a river. Is that not?

Is that not? Nothing pisses me off more. I don't know why I said that. It's weird. You're not babysitting, you're just with your daughter. Watching. Yeah. But anyways, we're back. We are back in LA for at least a couple days

and then it's off to New York City. But we have a new Bachelor, holy shit, they surprised us. Grant Ellis is your new Bachelor and they announced it. They actually did this with Rachel Lindsay on my season. They announced Rachel. Very early? Before the season was done. Jeez.

Yeah, I'm sure some people will be, well, Grant went home. They actually announced Rachel before that. I think they even sent her home. Right. Congratulations to Grant. We, it's also a big announcement. We are gonna do Grant's first interview this week. It's a special episode of Going Deeper.

That's right, we got two Going Deepers this week. We have the wonderfully talented, amazing Carly Pearce is with us tomorrow for Going Deeper. Big, if you are in the country music space, you definitely know who Carly is. And if not, you probably still know who Carly is. Either way, it's a fantastic interview. We really enjoyed our time with Carly

and that is tomorrow on Going Deeper. And then on Thursday, we have no reality recap. It's tomorrow on Going Deeper and then on Thursday we have no reality recap, it's just a Growing Deeper with your new bachelor, Grant Ellis, get to know him. Because we didn't really get to know a lot about him at all. We didn't, but I feel like we got to know enough to where I'm interested and I'm excited to hear and see more of Grant, so I'm glad we get to do this.

He did impress, we'll get into it when we talk about the episode, but he said something that was like, he impressed me. Okay. It's just like, he stood out. He stood out, he stood out. It was a subtle thing, but I was like, that was an original thought in an episode

where that was tough to find, but it was like, you could tell Grant is perceptive and will speak up in an environment where you sometimes don't want to stand out. Which made me like him in that moment. So yeah, anyways, what do we think about Grant? Well, I'm excited about it. He seems pretty well-rounded

and somebody that I'm interested to get to know a little bit more about. He wasn't on my radar for Bachelor, but now that he is on my radar, I'm into it. Well, obviously they're announcing it incredibly early and they never really do that. And most of the time- Yeah, what's the point of that? but now that he is on my radar, I'm into it. Well, obviously they're announcing it incredibly early and they never really do that. And most of the time-

Yeah, what's the point of that? My guess is they wanna get ahead of it with casting, because they wanna make sure they, this is usually an effort to cast women that they think would be a good match. Unlike Sam M who got out of the, who thought it was gonna be Daisy or Maria and then got out of the limo and you know,

she's not her type. She's not his type, but you know, obviously stunning. That was so wild. That was brutal. I can't wait to go in on it. I mean, like, but yeah, so like they're announcing early, a lot of it just has to do with casting. Maybe it's because they wanna like focus on the hype, you the hype you know we're I mean we're very excited to have

the opportunity to interview Grant for the first time because I mean I think partly they just want people to have a chance to get to know him which all starts Thursday anyways we are excited to have Grant in on Thursday it's really everyone's first opportunity to really get to know him I mean he's had a one-on-one mm-hmm and they've certainly aired certainly aired him talking about his feelings. He's certainly willing to open up and go there. I actually do like that they announced it early because that was the issue that we had with Gensmen.

We were kind of like, it doesn't seem like these men were chosen for you. And at least now it gives the women that are wanting to compete, you know who you're competing for. Yeah, so I think casting is a big part of it. And getting to know them, I guess, is in creating the hype.

But if you don't know who Grant is, you're a new bachelor. Be sure to tune in this Thursday to the Vile Files for an explosive, I don't know if it'll be explosive. Insightful. There you go. Captivating. Yes. Manifest.

We'll pull back the curtain, find out what trauma he'll be dealing with. Oh my God. Maybe that'll be the opportunity, because like, hey, we know Grant's gonna have to hear a lot of trauma. Yes. Oh, for sure. Anyway, it'll be a fun.

Oh yeah, how is he, what are his, we should give him some like, we should see how he does. You know, we should be like, hey, you kind of pull a bread, how we were like our monopoly, and just see how he does. You know, we should be like, hey, you kind of pull a bread, how we were like our monopoly, and just see how he responds. I think you ladies come ready, we all can, but like,

we should all come ready with some trauma. I think we should give him other things to say other than thank you for sharing. I think we should challenge him to not say that once in the season. Okay, yeah. I think we should challenge him to not say that once in the season. Okay, yeah. I don't know. Thank you, well, we'll have to come up with some ideas

because he can't just say, can't say, okay. Copy. Yeah, for sure. Of course. No, I think that's why we test run this and we see what his responses would be. Yeah, this could be fun. All right, yeah, no, we're here to, again,

whatever prep we can offer Grant, we are here to help. But this is about getting a no Grant. So we are excited to have him on and it will be a really great episode. The Olympics are finally over. Really enjoyed them. Finally, it's so sad. Yeah, I did say finally, like I was excited.

Like you've been counting down. Yeah. It's so sad. That did not come off the way I wanted it to. How else would you say it? The Olympics are over. Wow, that was really great. It was great.

A lot of great stories. The Americans won the most medals. I think we tied. Well, they tie with China for the most gold. Oh. We absolutely blew out everyone out of the water when it came to total medal count because silver and bronze while not gold still matter. Oh shit. That's Jordan Childs. You know what I'm

saying? Like we'll get into that. But yeah and also so I think the Americans won 40 gold medals. So that's either individual if it's like an individual sport like say you know when Simone Biles wins the you know all around she gets a medal and so that counts as one. But like when Team USA men's basketball or women's basketball, which both won gold, that counts as one medal as well. It's not like you don't count the entire team in the medals, right?

But the women accounted for two thirds of the gold medals won by the United States. Pop off women. Yeah, pop off women. Also, the US team had 126 total medals. Yeah, and China was. 91. 91, so absolutely the total medal count

blew everyone out of the water. See, this is why I love the Olympics. I get to be proud like I did something. I'm like, wow, we really are great, aren't we? We did, you know what also what we did is the men's middle distance really popped off. Congratulations to men's middle distance in track and field. No one gives a shit about that, but me and a few people.

But the Americans have never really done quite well in the middle distances, like anywhere from like 800 to 3000. And they did, they did. Okay. Nick did well in high school. Absolutely. He would have had a gold medal. If he was competing.

Absolutely. What's that audio? She's a runner, she's a track star. Did you guys watch any of the basketball games? I did not. No. Both classics. The Americans. Really good games.

Yeah. Really good games. The American men were down third. No, that was the semi-final. That was to Serbia. They were down 13 in the fourth quarter when they came back. The game against the French was,

it was close most way through, but I think the American men mostly dominated. LeBron, Steph Curry like popped off, as Steph Curry does. Yes. But they pulled away at the end. The women, oh my God, that was, did you watch that? No, I didn't watch any basketball.

Oh my God, Sierra. I, girl. You have to, it's the craziest game. The women's gold medal game was. I don't understand it enough to watch. Awesome. I'll watch the replay when I go home. Women's basketball is really having a moment right now.

They, it was a captivating game. The Americans won by one. The Americans have never lost a, I believe, a like goal, captivating game. The Americans won by one. The Americans have never lost, I believe, a goal, an Olympic game. So they have just dominated the sport. Other countries have since caught up a little bit. But the French, boy, it was neck and neck. It was back and forth.

Some of the shots that these people were making on both teams were, it was impressive. It was really cool. And anyways, the French were down three. With like three seconds left. And their star player, I believe Williams on the French team, she crushed, she was very good. I believe her name, her last name is Williams.

Dribbled down the court, well actually someone else dribbled, someone passed for the ball, and with seconds remaining, she shot it, and it went in, it banked in. But her foot was on the line, so instead of it being a three pointer, it was a two pointer, and they lost by one. Gaby Williams. Gaby Williams. Anyways, incredible game, just incredible.

Sounds exciting. Sha'Carri Richardson, did you see in the four by one? Oh my God, Sierra. She beat it, yeah. Well, they won, yes. She beat it, for sure. But when she was coming down the, she is in the anchor leg, she was last. And as she was coming down the, she is the anchor leg, she was last. And as she was crossing the finish

with about 20 yards to go, she looked at her competition. Side eye. Side eye them and looked, it was so baller, it was such an iconic moment. I think Sha'Carri Richardson is like known for doing baller shit when she finishes. That's what I was gonna say. Like she poses, she's like, yeah, I think all of, and anything she finishes her work. That's what I was gonna say.

Like she poses, she's like, yeah, I think all of, and anything she does is iconic. Just being that good at anything, really? I'm like, take your moment. Being that good at running is a talent. I mean, that's my nightmare. Running and breathing at the same time, not my forte. Natalie is running a family, think about it.

You are running. Okay. Oh my God. Period, I am. I'm running a family and I'm not exhausted. No naps, Natalie. Take a picture. Anyways, it was really fun to watch the Olympics.

I really enjoyed it. And they're in Los Angeles. Next Olympics, next Summer Olympics. Did you see that Tom Cruise? Tom Cruise that Tom Cruise was actually filming for the Olympics? Because there was rumors last week of like, is he skydiving for this? Although the scene that they filmed, I didn't see like in the closer. I haven't finished it. At the Hollywood sign.

Yeah, but I'm excited. I guess they do hand off the Olympics now at the end of the ceremony. So I'm excited to finish it. We'll say what's thought about Jordan Child being stripped of her bronze. Yeah. It's all, that's the only problem I've always had with these sports like figure skating,

which I love in the Winter Olympics, gymnastics, great. But the subjectiveness, you know, because it's judged rather than like say swimming or track and field. By the timer. I mean, some of these finishes and these races won one hundredth of a second, you know? And it's, but we know who won without a question, without a, you know, there's no controversy.

As close as it is, we know who won. And then you have some of these, you know, gymnastics where these, there's like a, it seems like a technicality where her coach admitted in an appeal, but now they found out that the appeal came in too late or something like that Yeah, so jordan was originally in fifth place. Meanwhile, romania was in third place But her the olympic coaches for the u.s team basically peeled the score which bumped childs into third place So they they appealed the score, which that's the subjective part and then she went to third place got the bronze

Yeah, but basically romania their olymp And then she went to third place, got the bronze. But basically Romania, their Olympic team appealed to the general Olympics and was like, you reported it after a minute late. So you have to report like a change in score within a minute of the score coming out. So the Olympics did it after a minute. That's ridiculous. So then she was bumped.

Yeah. So she was bumped down to fifth again. And Romania took it back. So the rule is, listen, if we fuck up, you have 60 seconds to catch our fuck up. From the score coming out. Whatever. Just saying.

The acknowledgement that a mistake could be made. Just like in the NFL or in major league baseball or most major league sports, they have replay, right? It's an acknowledgement that sometimes the umps or the refs can get it wrong. And there's always, even then, there's been a lot of controversy. But for something that happens every four years,

the Olympics, people put, literally, they commit their lives to this craft, right? And then to have the outcome be determined by people who acknowledge they can make mistakes, there's a subjectiveness. And this isn't even the subjectiveness of, well, I think she did amazing, and Sierra's of like, well I think she did amazing and Sierra's like, well I think she did like really good,

but like, you know, 9.8 instead of 10.0. That's just like difference of opinion, which that's already in there. I feel like they've upgraded the scoring where it's less opinion based and more like, did they do, it's like a paint by number scoring. I think that might be the case, but even then, like again, there's an acknowledgement

because of their appeal that they can make a mistake, and if there's an acknowledgement that they can make a mistake, shouldn't the goal just be to get it right? Yeah. I mean, I think it is very paint by numbers. I think it's like if you stick it, but then you step a little bit, that's a tenth of a point. If it's a big step, it's this of a point.

I think it is very much, and maybe one of the judges missed a stick, I don't know. I think it is very much, and maybe one of the judges missed a stick, I don't know, you know, I think it could be as simple as that, but it's super fucked up, and I hate it for Jordan to have to like give back her. What's even crazier, I heard that Romania is offering to like have a, like, we both got third, and whoever the committee is to decide on these things,

there's like, no, we can't do that. But it's like, it took more than a minute to decide that. Well, the US team did say like, we're finding a way to like get her the recognition that she deserves. But sure, I mean, hell, we'll probably get more recognition now because it's gonna feel like to us and certainly Jordan and any fans of Jordan,

it's like they stole this from her, which sounds like she really got screwed over. I will say the Romanian gymnast who got back to the third place, Mark, like she did have a good statement that she released. She posts, it's Anna Barbasso, she posted Instagram saying, Jordan, my thoughts are with you. I know what you're feeling because I've been through

the same, but I know you'll come back stronger. I hope from deep of my heart that at the next Olympics, all three of us will share the same podium. That is my true dream. So that was stronger. I hope from deep of my heart that at the next Olympics, all three of us will share the same podium. That is my true dream. So that was cute. I'll be honest. If I'm understanding what's going on here, what?

The inflection, I was all keep going. My inflection or his inflection? I could be, maybe, again, maybe I'm off here. But again, if I'm understanding what happened, which is the scoring is less subjective or kind of a painted by numbers, but whatever this appeal, is that like, who actually won? It sounds like Jordan actually won.

Well, yeah, so Jordan actually won if they reported it within that minute of the score coming out. But then, so Romania appealed it on a technicality and then they got it back. Yeah, and if that's true, then that really kind of sounds condescending. You think so?

I don't think she meant it that way. She's in a no-win situation. I don't fault her or Romania for, I mean, them's the rules. But I guess I do, she did it if, I don't know. It also probably wasn't her who decided to do it. It was her coaches and her, like, it definitely wasn't up to the athlete herself.

But it sounds like Jordan won. Well, I mean, it also kind of sounds like Jordan, did she place fifth or did she place fourth after? She placed fifth and then she got appealed to third. Third, but that's what I'm saying. Once the appeal went through and Romanian gymnast was third, is Jordan now fifth place? She goes back to fifth.

Sure, yeah. Because her original score takes place. Who the hell is in fourth? And this poor person in fourth is just like. She's just there. Monkey in the middle. Yeah. If we got this right, this seems stupid.

I just think like if the technicality was one minute, then they should have been able to report it within that one minute still, you know? Like Romania should have had reported report it early on too, not after she got the bronze. Maybe we were missing something, but this sure sounds like if you catch our mistake within a minute, you have a minute to report it,

otherwise our mistake stands. And that seems stupid. Yeah. I mean, I did see that the bronze medals are like rusting. So I mean, I don't know if it's really worth it at that point. I don't know if you saw that. Probably because they're all chewing on it. I do feel like this may be hopefully a net positive

for Jordan Childs. Oh, for sure. I mean, she's getting screwed over and our hearts go out to her, but like, she seems like she's getting screwed over. I think we will rally behind Jordan. She did post on her Instagram four broken heart emojis and she said, I'm taking the time

of removing myself from social media for my mental health, thank you. Well, our hearts go out to her. She definitely, that's, it's really unfortunate. What's also unfortunate is the break dancing. Oh, I was gonna say, like speaking of people not being acknowledged, did you know that there's anybody else that competed in the break dancing?

And they were good. Then Reagan? Yeah, they're good. Also, yeah, so if you haven't seen, like the break dancing is a new Olympic sport. It's the first time as an Olympic sport. Well, you and I and everyone here and probably a lot of people listening

don't know much about break dancing, aren't passionate about break dancing. Just like many other of the Olympic sports, I think part of the charm of the Olympics is like, oh, this is a sport and you watch it and you kind of get into badminton because like these people are super into it. Right? Loved badminton.

So you have break dancing, but the other side of the argument when they bring in more obscure sports is people will mock it or they act like we shouldn't take it seriously, et cetera. Flag football is now next Olympics is gonna be an Olympic sport. People will have opinions about that.

So when you have opinion, you wanna come out strong as a sport and represent your sport, because what also is cool, even if you're watching badminton, right, and you're watching it and you're thinking like, okay, that's fucking badminton, you look at these, or table tennis.

Everyone plays table tennis. But when you watch the Olympics play table tennis, you're like, holy fucking shit, I didn't think people could be this good. I was shocked by the people on Love Island and how good they were. There you go. And so the women's breakdown competition,

the Australian, they rolled out a person called Reagan. Her name is Rachel Gunn. She's like a professor of body movement. And anyways, she talked about how she didn't really practice, didn't really do anything, kinda showed up and like did, we all could do it. Like everyone's seen this. It's kind of, I don't know, like everything else.

It seems to be like now being politicized in a weird way. I don't know how, but like, you know, not shocking, but it just seems like really weird. And like, and then the Australian like Olympic Committee was defending it. And the person who's like in charge of like, I guess, like the casting, that's not like, I don't think they're casted, but like the quality of the Olympic team for the Australians was like literally said, I saw an interview like she's the best break dancer we have. So like, why are we mocking her? Like, meanwhile, I saw like a video of like some kids

in Melbourne, Australia, two young, seems like teenage girls break dancing in the streets and they were fucking awesome. Phenomenal. Phenomenal, like yeah. So anyways, like a lot of people, like you know, you mocked the very sport as their debut and the thing we're talking about is one of the competitors

just going on there and wiggling. You've seen the memes, they're putting all these different. I'm sure it's harder than we think it is though. To do what Raegun was doing? Yeah, I feel like there's technique to it. I don't know, it felt like something I made up when I was 10 to show my mom. 100%, I do agree with that, yeah.

She's clearly not as good as, like, that's not break dancing, it's something. It's body movement for sure. Whether any of us could do it really isn't, I mean, yeah, I like a lot of people, like the jokes are that anyone can do it. And sure, we can debate that. That's not really the point though.

The point is, is like, there's literally like videos all over Australia of kids being phenomenal. She was interviewed, right? Or she said something amongst all of this criticism and was like, this is my crap. Like so she said. Yeah, she takes herself very seriously. She means she's a professor of body movement.

She said, all of my moves are original. Creativity is really important to me. I go out there and I show my artistry. Sometimes it speaks to the judges and sometimes it doesn't. I do my thing and it represents art. That is what it is about. Yeah, so anyways, like, sounds like this person's an artist

and I didn't think this in the Olympics is about sport and competition and competing. And there's not a subjectiveness for the very things we talked about because you are awarding medals. And if that's not your thing, that's totally fine. But this isn't an art. I feel like she should be in like a dance competition

and not, you know, something that is categorized as break dancing. You know, I feel like she's, she is a dancer and there's maybe a different category for that. But that, it wasn't break dancing. I think we saw the Canadian man who won, right? Yeah, for the men's division. That was an insane, that, yeah, that was an insane break dancing. I think we saw the Canadian man who won, right? That was like, that was an insane, yeah, that was an insane break dance.

Her quote is saying, like, as an artist, that seems like a, you know, makes a lot of sense. Like, art is subjective, you know, it's not made for everyone. It's in the eye of the beholder. That's not the Olympics. It's not like people who want to compete. Some people don't want to compete. Some people just like aren't competitive. It's not their thing. They's not like people who want to compete. Some people don't want to compete.

Some people just like aren't competitive. It's not their thing. They're just, I don't know, it doesn't rile them up. She's literally speaking about art, which is go do your art. You have a point. It's kind of like if I were in the Olympics, okay, and I went to gymnastics and my floor routine

had zero flips in it, had none. And I just was like twirling and you know, doing some other stuff. No, I wasn't running and doing yeah, nothing else. And I was like, well, this is this is my interpretation of gymnastics floor. What are you? I'm allowed to do this. And it's like, that's just not the sport. It's when people are saying like, it allowed to do this. And it's like, that's just not the sport. It's when people are saying like, it's experimental. Like it's, it's an experimental artistry of it. And it's like, well girl.

It's the Olympics. Yeah. That's what I kind of wish that like the Olympics kind of had a rules for dummies kind of thing. Like a little key on the screen to tell us what we're supposed to be looking for. Like what they grade on. Because like, obviously we're not all gonna like Google

what's the official rules of gymnastics. But I'm like, if you tell me, oh, they docked a point because their foot was out of bounds or whatever. The same way in a football game when they do the replay and they draw around showing you what move was made or why the call was made. I feel like I wish I could understand more

so then I could see what we're judging based off of. Because she obviously qualified to be in the Olympics. Yeah, I don't know how one qualifies for Australia to be in the Olympics, and according to, again, they're the committee chair for Australia, that's the best they got. But, you know, again, apparently that's subjective because there's videos all over Australia now of like-

Of kids dancing, yeah. Or people in general. Yeah, and like, think about it. How cool of a story would that be to see a 17-year-old girl be the best in her country if she qualified by competing? I don't know how Ray Gun qualified. But again, yeah, some people just aren't in the competition,

but every time I see someone win, I get inspired by it. When Sha'Carri Richardson's crossing the 100 meter, doing the four by one, and like a baller just like looking at her competition, that's inspiring for some, for many. But like, you know, this, the Olympics, maybe just aren't for everybody. Like, I don't understand.

Although the synchronized, what is it? The artistic swimming? Is it called what is it, the artistic swimming? Is it called artistic? Is it called artistic swimming? It did have a different name than synchronized. I think it's artistic. That's incredible. Artistic swimming.

But even then, I don't think that's the subjective. That seems like when I was washing it, there seems to be like, they might deduct a tenth of a point or some shit. Anyways, it's a- I did see that their makeup does not wash off during like artistic swimming. And everybody was like, what is the makeup routine?

What setting spray are you using? Cause they come out full face. Like how things move. It is performance. It is wild. But it's like incredible what they can do. Underwater and then they're catapulting their teammates. It's a...

And the Americans, I think the American women took second and second in that. China came, they competed last and they came from behind, I guess. I watched it, I was pretty into it. I thought the Americans were gonna pull it off, but they didn't. What are you gonna do now that they're over?

Keep watching. Babysit River. That's what I was gonna say, yeah. Babysit River. Oh, oh, you know, I turned on Netflix last night as we were looking. You know what's available now? I don't know if anyone's watching, I'm curious.

UK Love is Blind. Oh, I did see that. No, I hear it's like really good. I did hear about this. Not this current season that just ended? I don't know if this is the first season or if this is like season one. I don't even know how old this season is,

but it's available on Netflix and it's the UK Love is Blind. It seems to be, people are watching it. Is it Love is Blind or Love Island? It's Love is Blind. Love is Blind, okay, sorry. people are watching it. Is it Love is Blind or Love Island? It's Love is Blind. Love is Blind, okay, sorry. Not, yeah, no. Got it all the way, sorry. But like a different, like same, you know.

Same concept of sound bites that everybody wants to hear. I'm sure, yeah, I'm sure for all the people who love the UK version of Love Island, I wonder if the Love Island, Love is Blind will be giving. I don't know, I might, we might. I might take a gander. We might check it out, I don't know, I might, we might. I might take a gander. We might check it out, I don't know. If you're watching it, let us,

I mean, of course if you're watching it, you're gonna be like, please recap it, but like, is it really good? Or is it just like you're in between shows and you said, fuck it, I'll just watch Love Island. There was a meme going around that people were like, the Olympics and Love Island is over, like what is my personality?

Peacock really. They dominated. They like what is my personality? P.C.O.C. really- They dominated. They've been crushing life. They carry. Should we end it with us? Oh, the- It ends with us? The End of Us drama.

I've been locked into this drama. I'm captivated by it. I went down a rabbit hole. People are very passionate. The person who started this must feel like they got it right. They must feel so validated just because

when you get all of the information and you put it together, it's crazy. And the sides that people are now on, it's like no one knows a damn thing. We're just all speculating, but it's like something happened. There definitely is something going on though. Yeah.

And I will say it is interesting. I feel like it's this discussion of like, I think Blake and Justin both had like, their takes on the movie, you know. Blake was a producer, Justin was a director. Justin was the director. I know that it was like a lot of, you know. Blake was a producer, Justin was a director. Justin was the director. I know that it was like a lot of, Blake's vision is this way and Justin's is this way

and they do it both ways and see, you know, like which was better, whatever. And I did notice that Justin's bio, the movie does not have a physical domestic abuse hotline at the end of it, which I read the book. This is, it's very, you know, this is very, yeah, yeah. And as someone, you know, who has been in that relationship before,

it can be very triggering to watch. And so I do wish that they maybe would have added that at the end. I thought it was weird that they didn't, but Justin's bio on Instagram is a like domestic abuse link and number, and Blake's is just like her brands. By my haircare.

And I think Justin is leaning into the like, I wanted to make this about domestic abuse because that's what it is. And Blake is like, this is a movie and it's like lighthearted is kind of how I see it. No, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I mean, even looking at the difference between their profiles and how they're promoting it

where I'm like, I read the book as well. And I'm like, DV is the biggest theme of the film. And I'm like to promote as if it's the Barbie movie. It's very misleading, let alone not having any trigger warnings for survivors. If they don't know what's in the film, going to see that is very traumatizing, especially if you're thinking it's a lighthearted rom-com.

Yeah. I thought the movie was a rom-com until like 10 minutes ago when Sierra was like, it's actually about abuse that I was like, oh, like she's marketing it as like what you said, Barbie. It's fashion, it's baking, it's me and Ryan Reynolds. But like. Do we know that this is what the feud is about?

Speculation is that it's about the creative control and you know, he was the director, he's had the film since 2019. They stopped filming over COVID. So yeah, I think Justin bought the rights to the script or something like that. And then Blake is a producer. I think Greg and Ryan are producers, Justin is director.

And then the writer of the book. Colleen Hoover. Colleen Hoover, I asked Justin also star in it. Someone noticed, it's to Nellie's's point, that basically Blake and Colleen Hoover and the rest of the cast have unfollowed Justin. And they're not doing press together. And they're not doing press with Justin. And that's a choice.

That's a statement. That's basically commenting on someone's, on your Instagram or someone else's Instagram. You're putting out a, that's a public statement, isn't it not, yeah? A thousand percent, I mean it is. Yeah, and it's actually kind of childish because it's like you know that it's going to cause attention That's a public statement, isn't it not? Yeah. A thousand percent, I mean it is. Definitely is. Yeah, and it's actually kind of childish

because it's like, you know that it's going to cause attention to, I think, the wrong focus. So like Justin's obviously saying and doing all the right things. Well, Justin's going on interviews and actually talking about domestic violence, being an advocate, asking the right questions, and giving a voice and a platform

to domestic violence survivors. Blake, on on the other hand is avoiding questions about that and anytime she's asked a question about Justin, she makes it immediately about herself and Colleen and doesn't really acknowledge that Justin Baldoni had anything to do with the film. Yeah, I mean it sounds like there's definitely something going on there. And he says kind things about her.

Yeah, no, I know Justin always says and does the right thing, for sure. But do we know that's what they're feuding about? I don't think we know. It's a lot of hearsay. No one knows anything. A word that's been thrown around is chauvinistic. By him.

By these insiders and people that are saying that they were on the set. The word is chauvinistic that they've been using. About Justin. About Justin, and that there was difference in creative approaches. So it's like obviously what Nellie and you are saying about like and I'm like Justin, I was aware of the book.

You know, Nellie read, I remember Nellie reading the books. I remember seeing that Justin and Blake got casted for it. You can't go to an airport without seeing Colleen Hoover books like all over, right? So like it's like the number one book on Book Talk, but I hadn't read it. And so like Justin, I didn't know really what it was about until like this weekend when this drama came out.

And so the lack of awareness, that makes a lot of sense. And so it makes sense why a lot of people, and it seems like a lot of the fans of this book are people who identify with Lily Bloom, the main character, especially if you've been through it. So I can see why they would be upset with how things are being marketed via Blake.

And so it seems like a lot of people are therefore taking Justin's side. But my question is, is do we know, again, I think we're all assuming that that's what they're fighting over, yeah? And do we know that to be true? We don't know, no one has spoken about the Rift. This is all, everyone's just, you know.

Reading between the lines. Reading between the lines. Reading between the lines and speculating on what could possibly be the issue, and I think the biggest like red flag or whatever is that there is such a difference in marketing this movie where the focus of this movie, the storyline of this movie is this Lily Bloom

who is in a relationship with this man who is abusive and she stays with them and they have a kid together and it's this whole story of their relationship and the fact that it's not really being talked about as that is alarming and I've seen like interviewers you know for on red carpets being like oh my god it's hot it's fun there's hot guys there's hot girls it's this it's that and it's like no it's sad. It's triggering. It's heartbreaking. It's like That's the reality of the movie, but it's not being portrayed as that so no

That all makes a lot of sense And I think it's great that Justin is bringing awareness in ways that for whatever reason that Blake and other people aren't I just? for whatever reason that Blake and other people aren't. I just wonder if that's what they're fighting about. Listen, if you're appreciative of the awareness Justin's bringing to that topic, that makes a lot of sense. But is there a world where he is not who he presents to be? I think sometimes we live in a world where if someone does something kind for us in general, we obviously are drawn to them and we want to ride for them, and we wanna support them.

And so Justin obviously is bringing awareness to anyone who feels triggered by this topic. And so I see why people are siding with Justin and agreeing with Justin, but what if there was a world where Justin on set behaves in a way where it seems counterintuitive to the message he puts out there to the public. Is that possible?

And I just wonder, because I think Colleen and Blake and Jenny Slate, all these people unfollowing Justin, that's a statement, a statement they didn't have to make. He still follows them too. Sure, Justin is incredibly self-aware and incredibly intuitive to how the public perceives him. I've never seen him not on message. He is definitely always on message. He always says the right things for sure.

I do think it's interesting that Colleen, the writer, the creator of this entire story unfollowed him because it's like, you know, why? Did he not tell the story that you wrote? You know, it's like, what's going on there? I see the, you know, the Blake and him feud, but it's like, why is- The author, yeah. Because you think if that is the issue, you know, if it is like him wanting to lean more

into the domestic violence and Blake wanting to lean more into like, it's Blake wanting to lean more into it's a movie, let's make it a little bit lighthearted, it would be weird for the writer, Colleen, to not want anything to do with him. Have you seen Justin Baldoni's, his engagement video? I looked it up a little bit, yeah. It's like a thirst drop, right?

So if you haven't seen Justin Valeroni's engagement video, it's available online, it's 26 minutes long. Like listen, everyone has a different proposal style. Like it's certainly not meant for us. He did put it out to the public. You know, I shared my engagement video to put out. I hope people enjoyed it. Certainly we opened ourselves up for criticism,

but I'm assuming Justin's video, assuming, was really just for his fiance. And he put it out to the public to share. It's 26 minutes long, it has a really romantic opening. He takes his now wife out to the dinner where they had their first date. He sets the stage, she sits down in this booth, I'm assuming the same booth they had their first date.

And then he proceeds to put on like a 20 minute performance. Some of it seemed to be pre-recorded. Music videos. Music videos, doing recreations of the Backstreet Boys. But from the moment his then girlfriend found out that she was being proposed to, his proposal was about 20 minutes long of him performing. And I'm just, as for the ladies out there. It wasn't anything,

it wasn't anything that had to do with them. From like, maybe she loves Backstreet Boys and she's obsessed with this music video and so he was like, oh well, act like I am one. Or maybe there was a lot of inside jokes that we just don't know. But yeah, to the public, it seemed like he was just doing

skits and performances that really had nothing to do with proposing for her to watch. I was made aware of this video by a friend yesterday because I was talking about the drama, and they're like, have you seen this video? This friend said my opinion had changed of him when I saw this video, and I was like, you gotta send me this proposal.

But when you think about it, it's interesting that like, it was, I mean, when I proposed to Nellie, it was just like for her. I mean, she told me kind of how she wanted, like some beats of how she wanted to be proposed to. And I did the best to recreate that, because it was like, I don't know. But it felt like, I mean, yeah,

the proposal was for us, I suppose, right? But it was like her moment, right? And like, from my point of view, I was gonna propose to my fiance. And Justin's proposal to his fiance, like included him perform, like she had to wait 20 minutes, but I, nope, hold on, 20 minutes later, I did,

like I didn't know, it just, to me, it comes across as someone who makes that proposal, it was about him. It was a performance by him. He was shirtless and it was a thirst trap for like 60% of it. So it's giving like brodwar and not proposal. And it's like- Brodwar.

That's what I took from it. And to me, just looking at that, not knowing anything about who they are. Like if it was just like, look at this proposal of this random person who did this for his fiance. To me, it would be like that said that looks like a person who likes to present that they are very focused on, you know, because that took a lot of energy and he puts no one could knock his amount

of effort that went into that. There was a budget. Boy, he did so much. He went out of his way for that proposal. They are still together though. Oh my God. Yeah. And again, and like this is just one person's opinion.

And I assume that is now wife of what was obsessed with it. And again, this is just one person's opinion and I assume that his now wife was obsessed with it and that's all that really matters. But it seems like if I knew nothing, it would seem like he did that for him, for the reaction to like, for, you know, he was the focus. The whole video was him. And it's just an interesting, I think, data point. Yeah, I mean, I will say on the topic of the movie itself,

like there was two versions of like screen test one of them was Justin's version of it and the second one was like Blake Lively's version and The studio chose Blake Lively's version although Justin Baldoni's version performed better and we when we heard perform better who we get the audience performed better with audiences leak from a source, close to the situation. They typically test films before they put them out to make sure that it registers with the audience. No, no, I know that, but I'm saying in terms of that,

there were two versions. And then the scores, those were, where did we get that information? Well, it's like the whole insider thing. It's all the insider, it's all the people, magazines, everything coming out about it, but it said that they did choose, like the final version is Blake's version. And they're saying Blake says, I mean, that part might be the hears out about it, but it said that they did choose, like the final version is Blake's version.

And they're saying Blake says, I mean that part might be the hearsay of it, but like the studio version isn't like Justin's original version. Yeah, no, listen, it's fascinating because for all the things that Sierra and Natalie said, like Justin's the only one bringing an awareness to this, and that matters, and I think for-

And also like Money and Star Power also kind of have something, I feel like have a play in it as well, and like Blake and I think for- And also like Money and Star Power also kind of have something, I feel like have a play in it as well. And like Blake and Ryan Reynolds, they're a power team. If they both want to direct the sequel, it would make sense that the writer would side with it. She doesn't really have a say. No, that means again, that's another like,

I think opinion out there is like, I think a lot of people are attaching it to go, well, Blake and Ryan, they're the power couple. They have the influence, and so Blake got her way. And I think a lot of people who, it sounds like a lot of the Team Justins are basically saying that,

and then the reason why they unfollowed, it's just like, well, they're all getting in line. No one wants to go against Blake, which that might be true. I mean, listen, people, it's Hollywood, at the same time, we don't know that to be true, right? That's just speculation. Everything is speculation at this point.

It's hard to criticize what we don't know about people or why they do the things that they do. There might have been drama on set, there might have been just a struggle of power. I don't think either side is gonna come out and say anything, because Blake's already come out saying that the feud is not true, and then Justin only says nice things about his co-stars.

So I'm like, it's almost like, I feel like we're being gaslit a little bit. Like we're being told like nothing's going on, and it's like you guys are being very public. Well that part is, with them unfollowing Justin, like again, that's a public statement. So for Blake to deny, it's kinda like, well I mean, hey, at least answer the question.

And it's like Blake's on the red carpet with Ryan and Brandon's Glenar, the guy who plays Atlas and Brandon's girlfriend. And they're doing all this, these photos together, this media together. And it's like, but Justin is another major role in this. So it is weird that they're kind of drawing that line and like she's only doing press with Brandon and nothing with Justin. It's very obvious. And so I think the fact that no one is saying anything and acting like there's nothing wrong

is a bit of like, come the fuck on. We're not that stupid. Yeah, it's weird. Well, maybe they don't wanna. Could be the marketing. It could be. Yeah. That's where I Well, maybe they don't wanna. Could be the marketing. It could be. Yeah. That's where I'm like, is it the marketing?

Like, is everybody in on the joke? I'm like, the theory is kind of like the Sidney Sweeney, Glenn Powell. Yeah, but that was totally different. They were leaning into the chemistry. So in comparison, what they're saying is that Justin's character is, he does play the abuser, that they don't wanna glorify it and make it

so that it's like, like he's a star of the film that they're like, I don't know, trying to create an error. Leaning into the characters essentially. Yeah, that like he's not a likable person so you're not rooting for him. I don't subscribe to that, but yeah. Also yeah, like Justin is an actor

and he's playing this character who's not a good person. But it's also like when Zac Efron played Ted Bundy, he was, you know, on doing the media tour and doing, and was quote unquote glorified for playing a murderer, but no one thought that was like. He also didn't lean into like, maybe people wonder, you know, like people, his co-stars weren't treating him like he might be a serial killer.

He wasn't on the red carpet fighting behind it. Why would, you know, that wouldn't be fair to Justin to like have him. Scapegoat him. That's way too into the weeds. I think this is a situation where people work together, didn't get along, it happens in every workplace. And like, I think the big thing is,

is that it's a public statement to unfollow people, especially with it being who they are. For whatever reason, Blake doesn't wanna acknowledge. Justin definitely has said nice things, but his quotes have been a little passive aggressive, like that whole, like, I think Blake should do it, she's ready, like in print, again, I didn't see the interview, I read the interview,

it comes across as very like, I'm not gonna say anything bad about Blake, but like, I have an opinion about Blake. It definitely, I watched the video, the interview, it definitely came off passive aggressive, for sure. but I have an opinion about Blake. It definitely, I watched the video, the interview, it definitely came off passive aggressive. Yeah. For sure. And I just like, there is a world

in which they have their reasons, but sort of like, short of Blake, I mean, what if he showed up, what if the chauvinistic rumors are true? And he showed up and again, Justin presents his ally, always saying the right thing, shows up, and then again, acts Justin presents his like, ally always saying the right thing shows up and then like, again, acts a little bit different.

You wouldn't be the first guy who presents as an ultra ally and you know, but behind closed doors. And again, like I have no information that he did that, but if that's the rumor, you know, like what if Blake and Jenny Slate and Colleen Hoover, like what if they don't wanna say that? Because that would be a career-crow.

That's also not the first time an actor has been maybe a little two-faced, and that's not cause for unfollow. You know, that seems petty for them to unfollow right before they release this movie because he was not who he said. He was a little too fake. Like that seems. I don't know.

It's all interesting. I'm gonna go see it. Yeah, it's performance. While it's crushing at the box office, it's performing well, however people think about it, people are watching it. And yeah, it is, it is fascinating. I thought it was a rom-com, so I'm glad you cleared that up. You're welcome. I am your trigger warning. I think it was a rom-com, so I'm glad you cleared that up. You're welcome.

I am your trigger warning. I think a lot of people do, and I hope a lot of people before going into it who are victims of domestic violence know that that's what it is before they go into it because that's, you know, it's- Will be triggering. It will be, yeah, absolutely triggering.

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She posted a video hinting that she's single Basically, it was her before like at the clubs dancing to the audio if you're single There's one thing you should always take with you when you go out on a Saturday night your friends And it was her like posing to the audio Ready to go out. I'm gonna text her right now and ask if her and Aaron broke up do it. Well, it was her Bringing her friends. So that's why to the audio it's like, okay, so you're the single one is what you're saying. This is on the notes.

Yeah. She texts it back immediately. Oh. Quick response means there's no clarity needed. It is what it is. Like, she has an answer. She definitely has an answer. She has an answer. Well, we will find out during the reunion.

But public news, that's on the positive side. Serena and Cordell and Janae and Kenny have made their relationships official. And I didn't realize this is a Love Island tradition. Yeah, after the villa and things are working out, it's. Who started this tradition? Because this can't be like a show tradition. I feel like this organically happened

with one of the original winning couples or couples that ended up together and they went online. We actually decided to make it official outside of the show and then that became like a... I couldn't name you the actual couple, but yes, from UK that's a typical thing that post-season, the couples that stay together, once they've been out of the villa for a minute,

then they'll announce it's usually like, rose petals and flowers and the whole thing and a big announcement saying that like, we are an official couple. I think that's kind of cool that they're not like, automatically being like, even though we are exclusive in the villa, that they're like, hey, we've gotten out in real life

and I want to ask you to be my partner for real. No, it's, I like it. It's like, it offers it a sense of realism. I guess, again, this seems to be a relationship that the fans have with its cast members. It's like as fandom builds, when they write, there's a Star Wars movies and then now you have a million Star Wars books and then fan, it takes on a life of its own and it seems like with Love Island, that's what's going on here. But it speaks to the relationship that the fans have with its show, which is we know it's a show,

as opposed to The Bachelor, where sometimes you wonder for people watching if there's this like, you know it's a show, right? You know, like they are making a TV show. Like, you know this is crazy, right? Like, just the fact that people are willing to do this. Just the acknowledgement that it's like, holy shit, give them a chance to get to know each other

out in the real world. You know? Where some fans, it's just like, well, you know what you signed up for, it's the fucking Bachelor. Fans will say that all the time. It's just like, well, I guess. Sure. You met three weeks ago well, I guess, sure.

You met three weeks ago, you're engaged, why are you not married? But are they allowed to not acknowledge that they've spent eight hours together? I think some fans, you know, get that, but it's with this being an actual thing, I think it speaks to that relationship. It's kinda cool.

Yeah, I think it's like a reminder too, that it's like, there is reality TV that it's real people's lives like what you watched Actually transferred into their real life. You know what I mean? It wasn't like this like moment in time I did a show I left with a couple but like now we're over it I'm like the idea that Miguel and Leah are still a thing and it's like he's over in the UK and they're just like making It work. I don't know. I think it's really well didn't Kayla and Erin they made it official inside of the villa, right? Yes, so it's like says a lot if they're possibly like making it work. I don't know, I think it's really cool. Well, didn't Kailer and Erin, they made it official inside of the villa, right? Yes.

So it's like, says a lot if they're possibly not together anymore. Maybe showmates. Or it's like us. Well, that's a preemptive official then. That seems like outside of the rules. Doesn't official mean the show has, you have to leave the bubble? Does it?

Yeah, if I'm understanding this, this unofficial ceremony. Or some of them just personally waited, like, cause they waited till after the show, but Erin and Kailer did it in the show. But Sierra was saying how this is a thing, right? Yeah, right, the culture of it. Like the culture of the show,

and it started when it's typically a thing when people leave the show, and they leave the show as a couple, and then as they immerse themselves into the real world, maybe some of them live here, maybe some of them there, some of them it's long distance, some of them, there's a lot of variables and then couples have announced it's like, no, we've assessed and we're gonna actually try

as opposed to like a lot of people, Nicole and Kendall situation. It seemed like Nicole assessed and has been like, I don't know, this is for me. So like, Kayla and Erin doing it in the villa, it's void, it's no one void. Because it's like, no, you missed the whole point. Like you have to go, Kayla had to go home,

talk with her mom, and have her mom be like, this guy's an absolute fuck. And then Kayla had to decide, you know what I'm saying? Or Erin had to like leave the villa and decide, it's just like, oh, you know, do I love Rob or do I love Kayla? You know? And then he had to decide who he wanted to make a relationship work with.

With work, Rob or Kayla? He didn't know then. It's a little preemptive. Yeah, you have to see how people fit into your real life. That's what I liked about, love is blind, how they make them live together, where I'm like, at least there's an element of reality that I'm like, what it's like off of a show to live with somebody or to work on a relationship.

It's like, you have to have that element of, okay, does this actually work in my real life with my day job, with what I do, with my family? Like, I don't know. I think it makes it real. Well, happy for the happy couples. I'm excited they're together. We got some Love Island people on next week,

some big interviews with some of the people you really wanna hear from. A lot of your unanswered questions will be answered next week here on The Wild House. You know who I'm happy for? Who? Stassi Schroeder. Ah, yes. This is her area.

She's back. She's back. Does this say more about Stassi and her star power or that Vanderpump Villa needed a boost? I think both of those things can be true at the same time. I'm like Stassi is a star, but I'm like Vanderpump Villa, it's funny because people that I talk to that have watched the show, like rave about it.

They actually really love it, but I feel like you've either seen it or you've never heard of it. So I'm like, for her to bring in Stassi season two, I thought she would just be like a guest at the villa, but it seems like she's actually a full-time. It seems, like, we're gonna put her like in the, as like the general manager.

Yeah. And she'll be, her and Lisa will have her pow wows and they'll talk shit. And it's kinda like her dream job. She like loves like European culture, like the whole thing where I'm just like how- The prim and proper. Yeah, how fun for her that it's just of like her dream job. She like loves like European culture, like the whole thing. Or I'm just like how- The prim and proper. Yeah, how fun for her that it's just like, oh.

It's a smart move. And you're like on boss level with Lisa. And then it's promoting her now show that she's gonna have as well, which is her the center of the cast. Comedy docu-series coming out on Hulu. Half an hour. Who?

Stassi. She has her, she's got two shows that she announced. So she's joining the villa and then she's gonna have a comedic half hour docu-series. It's set to follow Schroeder as the anchor of a fresh ensemble of comedic and chaotic characters as they deal with identity crises and major life crossroads of their own. Saucy's the one who has to keep them all afloat. Oh, so like her own valley?

Yeah, essentially. She's like the Lisa of her own show. Yeah. Okay. Who else is on this? We don't know yet. So she's like Valley. Yeah, especially she's like the Lisa of her own show. Yeah, okay Who also who also done we don't know yet? That's that's all that's been announced thus far, but I am very excited It is interesting though that it's marking like a transition of Vanderpump into Hulu. I was thinking that too Where it's like we're like almost split down the middle with peacock and now it's moving over to Hulu because also Salt Lake City Monica where is like Monica was like promoting Hulu's show with the wives.

So we got the Mormon wives, we got Vanderpump Villa and Stasi. That's gonna sound like they're really gonna try to compete with the Valley. Mm-hmm. So. Although Stasi's show is only 30 minutes, so it's like a different format. Nevertheless. I think it's just like the networks, which is like a little confusing, because like what I love for it to be on Peacock, absolutely.

It makes me wonder if Lisa's like plotting her like escape to Hulu. Well, it's kind of like Kardashians. Kardashians left E and then went to Hulu. Which is NBC, so yeah. Oh, and because Hulu is ABC. Yeah. Interesting.

Well, Hulu is run by the same person who runs ABC on scripted. Yeah, it's Hulu, Disney, and ABC. And then E is NBC. NBC and Peacock. Interesting. Like do you think Lisa is going to Hulu and she's like, I need to poach

all of my Vanderpump characters, and she's gonna recreate her like sphere over there? I don't know, I'm confused about the whole thing. Well, I don't know, I mean, to me, well, is Lisa producing Stassi's show at all? I'm assuming. We don't know yet. I would assume not. So assuming she's not, then like Stassi's show at all? I'm assuming. We don't know yet. So assuming she's not, then like Stassi's show

has really nothing to do with Lisa. So to me, that's Hulu trying to cross promote. It's just like, well, let's kill two birds with one stone. We need to get like, you know, it's like, especially if they believe they picked up Vanderfump Villa. So like, you know, there's a lot of shows that like, just didn't catch on the first season, but they're good shows.

And they had their dedicated following, but it just didn't pop for whatever reason. And then you have, and then they will, it's like we have something here, but we just have to figure out a way to market it to get people to really jump aboard. And maybe that's springing Stasian, but it also that cross promotion.

To me, it's this is like, at least has less to do with this decision than it being more of a Hulu decision. You know what I'm saying? I don't think Lisa is like, as much as they're working with her, I don't think all of a sudden Lisa's a big power broker at Hulu now.

I think it's actually a smart move too, seeing how well Vanderpump and all the Bravo shows going on Peacock, that it's a smart move on Hulu, is being like, let's bring some of that over here. What if Raquel comes back by Hulu? You know what I mean? I'm like, what if the extra character is Vanderpump? If Raquel comes back to Vanderpump,

it's the end of Vanderpump. There's gotta be a sum limit. But like Hulu, she takes that avenue, you know? But hey, listen, I think the Mormon Wives Club or whatever, what's it called? Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. Secret Lives of Mormon Lives. I could confuse, I always think it's secret.

I think that's gonna be very fun and very good to watch. Stassi's version of the Valley, I mean Stassi, star of Vanderpump. She was supposed to be on the Valley, right, originally? That's the part that it's like. Well, I think the Valley would have always welcomed her, but Stassi's been very clear, I think, from the beginning that she was never interested in the, you know,

as she said that she doesn't like fuck with those people, which. He was saying before COVID, they were originally gonna make the next season of Vanderpump Rules. They were gonna split it and do Valley Crew with Kristen, Stassi, Sheena. And then they were gonna bring in new waiters for Sir

to do a new season of Vanderpump Rules. Who said this? This is just facts. This is like the producer, but when 2020 happened and the cancellations of like Kristen and Stassi, the Valley got scrapped. Oh, I see. So like Stassi's gone to record saying this, like she was part of the actual show and the original pitch.

And that was before, that was before Stassi. But before 2020 and then Stassi was like. Not shocking. Yeah. So he's, yeah. Oh my God, Jax Taylor lied again. What? Yeah. I wanna know what happened there to piss Brittany off I always, yeah. Oh my God, Jack's tailor lied again, what?

I wanna know what happened there to piss Brittany off enough to wanna post it on her stories. I would imagine Jack's getting like, oh my gosh, he's getting help, we love Jack's now. Look at Jack's, he's so good. And Brittany's like, you know what? No, he's not, look at him, he's still lying. It's still a choice though.

I mean, it's still the father of her child. And like someday her child is gonna, he's still lying. It's still a choice though. I mean, it's still the father of her child and like someday her child is gonna, it's a choice. It's also not like, it's him saying, I'm donating this money to cancer and not doing it. It's not her saying like, my baby daddy is, you know, I don't know what's worse than that. All of the other things you could call him? Yeah, all of the other things she could say about Jax.

It's like. It's interesting because it's the same week that an insider came out saying that she's still in communication with Jax for their son. So it's like- I mean, they're gonna have to. They have to. But it was interesting because there was this insider

that's saying that she's prioritizing and taking care of the son by keeping the communication, and then the same week she posts online destroying him. This is the biggest challenge for me as like someone who's commentating on their their choices online and the perception of them and knowing that they're filming right now. Yeah. You know, and it's just like, how do you is this? Are we all just kind of being foolish?

Are we all just responding and talking about the messiness that is the valley? And like, this is like the answer to all of our questions is they're filming. We're indirectly promoting the show. You know. Yeah. Welcome Peacock. Congrats. Just kidding.

But okay, but either way, I mean. It's just not at least point, oh, Jax did something. Lie again. Okay. Yeah, he's a horrible human. I can't imagine if Jax was on The Bachelor or The Bachelorette. Would he be a Sam M? Or is he further gone than Sam M?

Further gone. He's giving Chad, Luke, all of the bad guys. I want to see Jax go up against Vicky Gumbelson. Who would win in that fight is what I want to know. Vicky. Vicky would 100% win. Jax would just try to sleep with her. Oh yeah, that's true.

No, he actually wouldn't even try. He would just say he did. He would just make up a lot. I am sick and tired of like this. Shannon is this terrible person. Agreed. And she like, I do think, I don't know, Shannon, I don't know if she has a drinking problem or not.

I do know that if you are willing to drink and then get behind the wheel, that is a problem in itself. It does seem like she has acknowledged her mistake and she's like, I will never ever, ever do that again. She does seem like she is, you know, I am a two drink maximum kind of girl and sometimes I don't even drink. Whatever her journey is to that, I support it as long as she's not hurting anyone else

or hurting herself. I think Tamara throwing these stones at Shannon is like, what are you doing? I think Tamara is like the messiest drunk and it's like comical that Tamra has something to say about someone else's behavior while drinking. Yes. And that's my opinion.

And I will also say that watching from like previous seasons like Shannon is all about the drama, brings the drama. This is the chillest and like I think the most self-aware I've seen Shannon in a season where I'm like, she acknowledges that what she did was messed up, but I'm like, at the same time, what do you want from her? And it's not for anybody else to tell somebody that they have a problem.

They have to come to that conclusion on their own. That's why I agreed with Emily where she was like, well, Tamera, like, I don't think you get to decide, she's trying on her own, we've seen her try, you can't keep throwing those stones. And you're not even in communication with her, so how are you able to judge what you think is going on? You don't know what steps she's taking to heal

or to correct her wrongs? Other than a lot of highlights, most of the Shannon I've gotten to watch is these past two seasons, specifically mostly this season. So I don't have as much comparison as a lot of other people do. But when I watch Shannon this season, she looks almost afraid, like broken,

like down bad a little bit, like she's going through it. And she seems like she is trying, at least. We all try to do better and sometimes fail, but yeah, I have so much empathy for Shannon when I watch her. She seems like she really is a lot more timid and afraid to, yeah, I have a ton of empathy for her. She seems like she's truly going through it

and trying to get through it and make healthier choices. And yet she is being pulled back in for the sake of the drama. You have a point, because talking about flashbacks, her, Tamara, and Vicky were the trace amigos, and the point of it was they drink and become crazy. Yeah.

That was the thing, but she's the one that's now sober, or trying to be sober, and then Tamara's calling her the alcoholic, but Tamara's the one that still drinks. Well, Tamara's the one that drinks and then flies off the handle and then blames it on the tequila. So's the one that still drinks. Well, Tamara's the one that drinks and then flies off the handle and then blames it on the tequila.

So it's ironic. I know a lot of heavy drinkers that like to call other people alcoholic. Yeah. So I, you know. What is it, him without sin, cast the first stone? Watching Alexis is like, it's hurting my eyes.

She is just so terrible. And I think like, imagine dating someone for, how long did Shannon and John date for? I wanna say two years now. Three and a half years. Three and a half years. Imagine dating someone for three and a half years. And then when they break up,

they're in a whole new relationship. And this relationship, she's already been like, look at the ring he bought me, look at this. And then he's like, you know what? I think I spent a little too much money on my ex. So I'm gonna sue her and make her pay me all of that money back. It's like, she didn't hold you at gunpoint

and like tell you to pay for her facelift. And like, you chose to do that. And if it's not in writing somewhere being like, this is a loan, I owe you $75,000. You can't come around a year later and want that money back. It's like to Tamara's point when she was like, okay, if an engagement felt like you give back the engagement ring, she can't give her face back.

Like what do you mean? Yeah, unfortunately anyone can sue anyone for anything. And unfortunately, people with more power and more money specifically can just sue people because they have the access to do it because it's costly to litigate. So yeah, it's fucked up. It seems like a really abuse of the legal system. And also, I think Alexis using John and Shannon as her storyline is pitiful. We're like, I brought the receipts. It's like, this has nothing to do with you.

Like what? Before you were a pervert. The only reason he's asking her for this money is so that he can buy you more shit because he's spending too much. There's the door, Alexis. No, I really feel for Shannon. I feel like we're watching the psychological torture

of Shannon on this season. Or whether it's organically happening just because Alexis, who has been part of this group of women, is dating Shannon's ex and this guy who isn't even on the show but often talked about seems like a horrible person. I will say too, seeing Shannon walk out of the room and then start crying but not leave says a lot to me

because usually you see housewives, when they are the ones on the aggressive side, they leave and storm out and throw things. But Shannon actually walked out and was crying but didn't leave. Which shows she is in the defensive hurtful position. Yeah, and I also think that she didn't leave because she came with Vicky,

and then I think Vicky was like, nah, I got a couple things to say, like left and then she left. But like, yeah, no, it was actually quite sad. And it's never fun watching all, like everybody gang up on one person and it's like, she's already down bad. You're not helping the situation by yelling at her or like... Yeah, that's my question too, because it's like when Shannon went out there, she told Jen, she was like, I'm hurt that nobody came out to see me.

But it's like, Jen was like, people are defending you. So Shannon was like, I'm hurt that nobody came out to defend me or like to talk to me. But Jen was like, well, there's a lot of people saying things. So it's like in that position, if you're the friend in the room, do you leave the room or do you stay to defend your friend? Oof, I mean, that's a tough one. Like, are you going to support Shannon? Are you there to be like, no, stop talking about him? If I have the room or do you stay to defend your friend? Oof, I mean that's a tough one.

Like are you going to support Shannon? Are you there to be like, no stop talking about him. If I have something to say, I stay and defend. Yeah. Which is Vicky was doing. That's kind of how I feel too, that it's like, okay if you want to come for her, she doesn't have to be here, but I'm ready to lawyer up

and have this fight with you. Yeah, but if it's like, you know, this is stupid and I just want to be there for my friend and like then I go to support my friend. Absolutely. Shout out to Terry DeBrow. Dr. Terry DeBrow. I had a feeling you were gonna like

his little commentary at the table. That was so great. And he was like, you know I love to be shot by the paparazzi. If there is a person out there who I can call, please give me that number. And I was just like, Terry, my guy. He needs to reach out to Katie and ask for that number.

It's just like, he just, you know, it's just stupid. It's beneath them, you know, like. They're public figures, again, like you all like getting your photo taken or being relevant or else you wouldn't cause the drama that you cause hoping that it doesn't come up, that it ends up on headlines and Pete, we're talking about it, you know. That's why I'm like, it's so funny that they act like they're on headlines and Pete, we're talking about it, you know?

That's why I'm like, it's so funny that they act like they're like, oh God, we're all so private. I can't believe you would call the paparazzi. And I'm like, really? Cause you're screaming in the middle of a restaurant. Again, I've said this in past episodes, like unfortunately I haven't. I think Natalie told me at the lake that apparently

the Daily Mail printed something about me going to Whole Foods and I'm like, how do I look? She's like, bad. And if you don't get a heads up, they will, they are all over LA. And if they see you, they'll follow you and like often you don't see them. And you look fucking terrible always.

Cause it's always a shot of like, I don't know, you just having. You went out to grab a quick thing, sell the gym shorts. Just an unpleasant resting gaze. The dogs are out. Me, you know, stuffing a sandwich down my face. So yeah, for all the people who get ahead of it

and work with someone who's like, yeah, listen, can we just make sure we get a good picture? Because this is gonna be everywhere. Good for Terry to bro. Yeah. It was a switch up though to see Gina be, like not defend Katie. I'm a big fan of Gina this season. Some of It was a switch up though to see Gina be like, not defend Katie. I'm a big fan of Gina this season.

Some of her moves are a little confusing to me, but I was like, I feel like she's been a very good friend and very understanding with Shannon, who she did not get along with, I think last season. You know, she's making moves for her family for her kids. And I'm also kind of like, I like the fact that she said to Katie, like, dude, if you're not gonna tell Heather,

because you're running around telling everyone else what's going on, then I will tell her. And then Katie's like spinning at this episode being like, you weren't defending me or you didn't have my back. And it's like, no, no, she actually did. She said, I'm not gonna throw you under the bus, but I'm gonna give you an opportunity

to say what you've said to everyone but Heather. And I think that that's correct. And again, she keeps referring to this screenshot of this text of basically someone saying, Yes. Yes. Which that's called hearsay. It's just called rumors. Maybe it's true, but it's definitely not proof.

It is proof that you, Proof would be her texting the paparazzi, Hey, I'm gonna be at Disneyland at 10 p.m. Showing the screenshot that was sent to the paparazzi. And even then we don't even know, you can fake that pretty easily. So like that's not even proof. But that's more than like just having someone say yes.

Or you're gonna have to go full like Teresa Giudice and be like, here's my lawyer, like here's the paparazzi coming to sit down and tell you all that he took the photo because she asked. She was wrong in the long run anyways. Yeah, like it's just, and again, why is this your storyline, Katie? I think I agree with you on Gina.

Is that like, I don't always agree with Gina's choices. But Gina has character. Gina has a genuine attempt to do the right thing and a genuine attempt to be the good friend and to be the good partner. As everyone else, she gets it wrong. We all get it wrong sometimes. Sometimes we don't make the choices that are right for us,

even though we intend to. Where other people, I don't actually think they care about doing the right thing, I think they care about being right, validated or whatever. But yes, I feel like Gina, she's a good person. She is. You can just kind of like,

she just sometimes will say and do things that I don't quite understand. Like I don't get her break up I don't get what she's doing here It's like she wants him to move out and then he's gonna babysit speaking of babysitting. You can't live here I don't want your kids here. I want my independence, but hey, I got this thing to go do Can you watch my kids for a while? I don't think she gives it either. I don't think she gets it either I think she's like I'm figuring this out as I go

Like I don't really have as much money as I used to have. Like, where am I going? Well, and I also just saw this past weekend, they were in Vegas with her two daughters, but Travis was with her. So I'm like, they're very much still making whatever this modern situation work out for them, because they're still in a relationship.

There's still love there. They still like each other. They clearly are triggering each other. There's some bit of the abandoned issues going on. Again, don't get her choices often. It's always like, Tina, what the fuck? I'm like, what are you doing? She's a good person.

Yeah, when it comes to like standing up for other people and doing the right thing and standing to your guns, I think that she sticks to her guns a lot of the times. Yeah. I feel like she's the type of friend I have a few of these friends where it's like, they're a bit of gossipy. I thought I could trust them with information.

I couldn't, but it wasn't ill intention. It was like, I knew they just had like a loose mouth and I had to like lock them up, you know, and kind of like be like, what the, come on, you know? And then they were really, like, I could tell that they were really sorry. And then, you know, going forward, maybe they just weren't the person I would trust

with like secret information, not because again, I can't trust them, maybe they just want the person I would trust with secret information, not because again, I can't trust them, but they can't help themselves. It's like you kind of know what to expect. But they're good friends, they're good people, I care about them. They just, sometimes you just don't understand why they do what they do.

And that just feels like Gina. I mean, Katie has no storyline now. Like Gina's on her- But there was real fear in Katie's eyes last week when Heather was like, well, maybe I just, you're not someone I'm interested in getting to know now. Humble.

And Katie was just like, huh, mom, I just went on a date with her. All she wanted was to be loved by Heather. She was mad that Heather wasn't acknowledging her. Yeah, and that's why I'm like, even the whole like now flipping the situation onto Gina being like you didn't have my back and it's like she told you from the get-go don't bring this up, stop doing this and then you still did it and then you're sitting here now not taking responsibility for

you for some reason being obsessed with Heather and now you're being like Gina threw me under the bus so now we're mad at Gina and And it's like, no, Gina owes you nothing and she gave you really sound advice. Everybody has told you, don't mess with Heather. And what have you done? Continuously messed with Heather. Sutton came on for one scene and told you, don't mess with Heather.

It's as simple as that. Go Heather, Terry. Go, yeah. Thank you, Terry. Question, Emily and Shane married 15 years celebrating their anniversary. She's concerned obviously about his health and everything. She's gym obsessed.

Do you think that you are obligated to go to the gym with your partner if your partner brings up a concern? Obligated? No. Do you think you should take it into consideration? Who's saying what? Emily's the one that is working out and she's fit, but she wants Shane to go to the gym.

This is one of those in theory, sure, in practice, absolutely not. Okay. Yeah, that's true. In theory, I think you should be able to be in a relationship with both people, are supportive, and it can be like, hey, you know, or like, you know, and it could be health concerns

for eating the right way, or it could be health concerns for making sure you're active and things like that. But in practice, you're really gonna make sure you have your delivery down. And even then you might be talking to someone who isn't gonna receive it well at all. And especially, I think in general, I think as men, we have to be even more careful

about how we say things because I think sometimes we can be incredibly tone-deaf and insensitive and a little too direct for our own sake. And it's like, there's just a lot of potential landmines. Shred lightly. So, I think sometimes I would just rather shut the fuck up and just hope for the best. But I think it's a challenge. Yeah. I think the biggest challenge is when you do the work, and just hope for the best. But I think it's a challenge. Yeah, I think the biggest challenge is when you do the work because I think it's like if you are an active person,

hopefully your partner picks up that like maybe the motivation is seeing your partner really invest in their overall health. But it depends on how connected you are in a relationship. You see married couples all the time like kind of independently do their thing separately. She's finding joy in this new kind of routine that she has and maybe getting a lot of motivation

and a lot of self-confidence and he's just like, is it? And like, if you're not a couple that often does things together, then that leading by example won't really work out. But yeah, I don't listen. I think in theory, it's great if you have a relationship where you can do that in practice.

Good luck. Yeah. Get a family past the gym. You know, like how are you gonna repeat? It's always like the question is, how does it get repeated to their friends? Like what is the partner saying to their friends about what you said?

Exactly. Because it is often How it was how things are repeated again how they're received that other said yeah That is so well, you know just like how people read texts they read it in their feelings You know and so well that was very astute. I love that. Yeah You learn I love that. Yeah. Well, you learn.

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viall at checkout to receive 20% off sitewide plus free shipping this offer is for new and existing customers again that's dreamlandbabyco.com and enter our code viall. Jersey I donL-L. Jersey? I don't know. Did we get anything from that final episode? I thought it was just strays. Technically we did. Jen Fessler is now friends again with Danielle and Rachel Fuda. Okay.

And she's not speaking to Teresa or Jennifer, which is okay, whatever. That's small. But beyond that, there was no point. There was a reunion where they dressed up once again. They got into two different groups, that who's talking to who, and then they rewatched the season and gave some commentary. They didn't even get dressed up. Danielle was the only one that kind of looked

like a reunion look, and then everybody was just there for lunch. And Dolores. And Dolores, yeah. But Rachel's pregnant. Rachel's pregnant, yeah. Congratulations, Rachel. Rachel is the youngest housewife ever,

so she's staying around, I think. I think Teresa might be the best TV, and if you're gonna bring it back, there's several reasons why Teresa is one of the most iconic housewives, but like in practice, in life, I'm almost certain I would be Team Melissa. Yep, same. Teresa seems so petty, just like that commentary by Louie about Dolores's kid. Yeah. And I mean, she finally was like, she even knew, she's like, I'll make sure he apologizes, but she's never wrong.

Exactly. Teresa's never wrong in Teresa's mind. It was interesting to see that at the end of this reunion special, everybody was like, this is the end of it. So they're all saying that, but I'm like, you guys are all assuming that you're making the cut,

but I'm like, I don't know if any of you guys are making the cut. At this point, no. Cause I'm like, I don't know if any of you guys are making the cut. At this point, no. Cause I'm like, I don't even know what I sat and watched. Andy seems so done with them. Oh my God, yeah. Like he just, it seems like Andy truly just wants to move on from this entire cast.

Like it sounds like they've just been giant. Part of me did wonder if the reunion didn't happen because Andy was like, I don't want to even be here. Like you guys have to sit down and have one hour of a lunch on your own. Like not even a lunch, a charcuterie. Like he's like, I'm not gonna to even be here. Like you guys have to sit down and have one hour of a lunch on your own. Like not even a lunch, a charcuterie. Like he's like, I'm not gonna fly here just to like watch you guys.

Yeah, like Andy could have showed up. He could have gone back and forth between the two rooms. He was just like, I don't know, fuck this shit. Not even worth it. Yeah, he's not even worth my time. How many episodes was this season? Like nine or 10? It was 13 plus the special.

14. So short, yeah. All right, Bachelorette. Well, they took a week off last week, but this week was incredibly entertaining. It was a really great episode for Jen. I thought she really shined this episode. Oh yeah. Mostly around her, just like how she handled

the whole Sam Menn situation. Oh my God, yeah. Oof, that was rough. Talk about not self-aware. Or like bad in interviews, period. Also, talk about a word salad. Like saying so much by saying, but saying nothing at all. Like listening to Sam M talk in that radio interview,

I was just like, oh, honey, shut your mouth. At any point, did you start feeling bad for him or no? Not in a way of like pity or like, it was just more so like, man, I would hate to be you in the situation right now. I feel bad like, oh, you could have said something better, but you're saying the wrong thing. What he said about the whole like, I didn't know,

you're not my type, I wanted Maria or Daisy, and it was just like, you did not have to say that. He's like, you're stunning, but like looks fade. Like he was- No, I mean, it was the craziest thing. He's roasting her. And then before everyone's just like, oh, of course, I didn't even think.

It's just more like, I think he's just like, oh, Korshnik. And everyone's like, it's just more like, I think he's not, I think, yeah, maybe I don't. He's not, yeah. He's not very bright. Yes. It just seems like there are other people who are just as full as shit. Cause to be clear, I think Sam was revealed, right?

Sam clearly got called out for not being there for Jen. And listen, that's fine. We all know that like most of these people, men and women who show up for the show don't know who the lead is. That's not a crime to be like, everyone thought it was Maria O'Daisy. The fact that you literally never tell a woman,

I've learned this, I've had to learn this in my years, never tell a woman that she's not your type. No, yeah. Doesn't matter. And if you're dating outside your type, good for you. Yeah. Just shut the fuck up. You know, you don't need to bring it up.

You don't need to make that person feel like you're dating them for their personality and that it never lands. They'll find that out on their own. They'll see your exes and be like, okay, I was not there. You don't need to tell them. They'll figure it out. You don't need to say it. And, but I guess it's just like, so Sam was revealed as clearly,

he wouldn't be the first person who didn't realize that that was the lead. But he was revealed as someone who really didn't make it about Jen, who had no, he couldn't say one thing he learned, one. And I guess what I'm saying is just like, there are other people out there who are just smarter and craftier, who are highly intelligent people,

you know, for the men out there who like he would know what to say because they just know how to talk and they know how to be articulate and they know how to be smooth and charming. Where Sam clearly, I'm shocked to find out he actually was in a serious relationship because he comes across as a guy

who's never known anyone for more than 24 hours after he takes them home. Agreed. All he had to do was remember anything she said on their one-on-one. I mean, I feel like their one-on-one was the only time Jen has ever opened up about her past and her trauma and what she's been through.

And he obviously was like completely checked out that entire time because she's like what did you learn about me on our one-on-one and he's like I Love you yeah Can we talk about that for a second because that gave me flashbacks to of Erin and love Island where I was just like What is this like? Oh, you're getting in trouble and now you're just gonna throw a hail Mary, I love you and hope that this ends the conversation. What is this move? See, now this is actually, you can argue this is love bombing. It is love bombing.

Yeah, cause it's like, I don't know what to say to you. I don't even know anything about you, but I am in love with you. Oh, okay, guess I'm done being concerned. I do think there's, you know, and there's a huge difference with other, like for who is the other Sam? Uh-huh. Sam N.

I don't think that's love bombing at all. I think that as a man who is very emotionally unintelligent, again, love bombing, for it to be love bombing, despite what the internet says, there needs, like, there needs, you're saying the I love you to get something in return. It is an exchange. This person wants to hear I love you,

and if I say I love you to them, they will submit to my request. Like you're invoking some kind of power. That is not the same as someone who feels something inside, some emotions, they're emotionally immature, they don't know what it is, they're confused by, is this lust, is this infatuation, am I losing my mind, whatever, is it fear, is it love?

And they go with, I love you because they don't know how to articulate. And then three weeks go by and they feel something different because they got it wrong and they're in an environment where it is structured to make people kind of second guess themselves, lose their support system. Sam out in the outside world, the other Sam, Sam N. The love virgin?

He would have a support system and maybe he would say, hey mom, dad, best friend, sister, brother, like N. The love virgin. He would have a support system and maybe he would say, hey mom, dad, best friend, sister, brother, like I'm feeling these feelings, what do you think? And then one of those people could be like, well, you know, maybe not. He doesn't have that, right? He has people actually in his corner saying,

well, I'm guessing that's love. You know what I'm saying? He's being encouraged to go there. He's being encouraged to like connect with his feelings. Sam M sounds like a guy who, you know, is very comfortable being around women, who knows how to make out certainly and things like that, who clearly doesn't seem

like he is actually feeling these feelings, but he doesn't wanna leave. He wants to stay on the show, he feels foolish, and the thing he wants from Jen is to not send him home. And that's why that's where the love bombing comes into play, that he is saying it to get something in return, and that is her buying into his bullshit, where Sam M, he like, I believe that he believes

those feelings, you know what I'm saying? Where Sam M doesn't feel like he has any intense feelings whatsoever, he just feels like he doesn't want to be wrong about winning. Yeah, I think he was, in his head, he's like, I'm the bachelor. So I'm gonna say whatever and like present this way so that people think that I'm the one that's mature

cause then he said something to her. He said, I didn't know if you would be able to show the love the way that I knew how to. So he was like belittling her in a way of like, I'm the one that actually knows how to express my love. That's like girl, it's the other way around. The only thing Sam M heard Jen say this entire time was ferocious love. That's the only thing Sam M heard Jen say this entire time was ferocious love.

That's the only thing he heard. And that's the only thing that resonated with him. And he, Sam M speaks in like movie quotes. He speaks in like, like he's like, I want you every day, you and me. The like net, the notebook, like that is me. The notebook, that is him. That is what he thinks he has to say to get what he wants and it's the most mind-boggling conversation to listen to.

We have a speech. Jen said, how is your first impression of me and how has this changed over time? And he responded saying, it's a testament to the process I told you. I almost didn't even come here and I Thought no and then I got out of the limo and I said this girl is not my type Like this is whole that whole idea of the unknown right there. I thought the bachelorette was going to be Daisy Maria

Obviously like you're stunning. There's no doubt about that, but I know that fades, but I think I trust the process I truly feel like I'm meant to be here. My dream is to be a father, a husband. My parents have been together for 30 plus years. And then Jen said, but like, I think everyone wants a love that's lasting and real, but what is it about me that makes you feel like we could have a very great future together?

He's speaking in broken English. He's also saying absolutely fucking nothing. Word salad. A lot of eyes. So she says, like, besides the fact that we both want this ferocious love, like what is there about me? And he says, truly your selflessness,

I consider myself a very selfless person as well. And she said, how do you know that I'm selfless? And he said, I mean, you're either selfless or you're full of shit. One or the other. At the end of the day, I'm someone who's trusting this process. I told you that. I don'tless or you're full of shit. One or the other. At the end of the day, I'm someone who's trusting this process. I told you that.

I don't think someone who is full of shit would come in and see 25 guys and be like, okay, that's what I want, and just say those words out loud. Also, this is how I know you're selfless, actually. After night one, that connection that we had was hot, and truly, I feel like you've kept me in the closet. I cannot express to you enough how serious I am about the situation here." And she said, do you feel like you've kept me in the closet. I cannot express to you enough how serious I am about the situation here." And she said,

do you feel like you really know me? And he said, honestly, I told you from early that my love language is physical touch. It's like this, it's like, and then he grabs Jen's face and forces a kiss with her in front of everybody while they're gagged and jaw dropped.

And what do we think about that? That was aggressive. This is how I know you're selfless because when I got out of that limo we had a connection and it was hot What and force is a kiss the kiss is what crunched me the kiss, but it's also the truly your selflessness I consider myself a very selfish person as well. It's like again. She's asking you How do I make you feel this way and he always is like well I and yet he is talking like he's the bachelor cuz he's Like I trust the process.

Honey, you're part of the process, but you don't need to trust the process. I think my favorite thing was the last thing he said, you saw the best in me that I couldn't even see it. His movie line? You saw the best in me when even I couldn't see it. We don't think you've been struggling with your self-confidence, Sam M.

Like he's keeping the main thing the main thing. Yeah, just, oh, he keeps the main thing the main thing. He is. Even on his exit, he was keeping the main thing the main thing. Yeah, just oh, he keeps the main thing the main thing. He is. Even on his exit, he was keeping the main thing the main thing. When I watch these moments like these, they have a lot of power in the edit room. Yes. So when I watch these things

and they sound like broken English, I know that that could be made possible. By chopping things up. If they wanted to. But that's not always the case. You know what I'm saying? And I think when you watch for little clues, obviously we had the pleasure of talking to Jen last week

about Sam and she was very clear that she doesn't think he's being misrepresented at all. You can only do it, they have a lot of control in moments, but if you really wanna screw someone over, they have to give you something and they have to consistently give you the same thing for you to set a kind of a character arc, I think, to a certain degree.

Even his exit, he just, douchey thing after douchey thing. I forgot what he said in the limo or the SUV or whatever, but it was like, he was just like, oh, he called her dull. He called her dull. She's a little dull. If he would've gotten that car after all the bullshit and all the crazy things we saw, right?

And if he would have said something like, you know, Jen's a great person, she's gonna find her love, I guess, and humbled himself and just said something like that, he could leave the door open for people to be like, I don't know, he got fucked in the edit or something like that. But the fact that like just every step of the way

he just continued to say and do douchey things, even just in front of the guys, I mean, you saw all the guys, regardless of what we saw from an edit standpoint, we saw all the men kind of validate what we were seeing. So whether we saw the entire 30 minute conversation or three minutes of that conversation, it seems like they accurately got the tone.

Keep in mind that Sam M's story was a guy who just got out of a relationship and there was another guy involved and he seemed like he really got down bad by his ex. And to watch Sam this season, you can't help but whatever happened between him and his ex and to watch Sam this season, you can't help but like, whatever happened between him and his ex girlfriend, not wanting to take her side. Things can't go more poorly for you on a show when you're watching it and you're just like, you have a, a very tragic story that you makes anyone want to go, wow,

it's like, yeah, that sucks, man, to go through that. And then immediately watch on the show and go, I don't know, I bet she had her reasons. Every step of the way, he was horrific. I mean, just aggressive physically, just grabbing her head and making out. Like- When he said, what is one word to describe fantasy suites?

Aggressive, that's scary. Yep. What word to describe fantasy suites? Aggressive, that's scary. Yep. What is aggressive about fantasy suites? What are you doing in there that's so aggressive? See, that's something where it's just like, I actually, when he said that, thought he meant like that's an aggressive question. That's not, that's not.

The man who's like been jumping her from the start thinks that question about fantasy suites is aggressive. No, I know, no, no, I'm saying that's how I took it at first, but then the more he said, that was like, no, maybe that's what he meant. He talks with his weird power dynamic. Like he belittles Jen while talking to her, but then that's where I think he thought

he thought he was gonna be the bachelor. So then he was like talking in a way of like, I will be the one next that has the power or I don't know. Did you notice a thing he was doing when he thought he was getting called out and you'd make this kind of noise? Yeah. What was that? Was it just like a, I think he was nervous.

No, it's like a, it's a tick, a nervous tick probably because he's lying. But like, did you ever watch the Jinx or like, like anything with like a serial killer that they always have these like tells when they're lying. He's not a serial killer. I'm not saying he's a serial, I'm just saying when people like- When you look to the left, that's like a sign of lying. Yeah, they have like subconscious ticks when they're lying. He's not a serial killer. I'm not saying he's a serial, I'm just saying when people like- When you look to the left, that's a good sign of lying.

Yeah, they have like subconscious tics when they're uncomfortable or whatnot. So it's like, his whole thing was like, fuck, I'm lying right now. I don't believe anything that I'm saying. It's almost like he couldn't get the words out because it was such BS. Yeah, I mean, he knew he was screwed.

Like when Jen walked in, I mean, it was kind of like, Jen like kicked, I love how Jen knocked and just kicked open the door. Like, what if he's going to the bathroom? That's what I thought, what if he's like mid changing or like alone? Clearly she knew. Just so you know, like even though there's cameras in there,

he was definitely caught off guard. Sometimes like you walk into a room and it's just like, oh my God, you're here. And there's like cameras waiting for them. And it's just like, okay, they knew. Before every rose ceremony, they'll take all the guys and they'll B-roll. And so B-roll, for those of you who don't know,

and we've talked about it before, are just like you're staring into the moonlight and you're contemplating. And so they'll use those shots when you're sitting in a chair as those voiceovers and they'll combine them or whatever. Or just the shots of when Jen's talking about all the men and they show the men getting ready for the night

and they're dressed up. So like every row ceremony, they do B-roll, they do these contemplation shots, they look in the mirror and they get ready and they like, you know, fix their watches. And so, you know, then most of it you don't see and they're not used. So that's what Sam's doing in that moment.

When Jen walks in, he's just filming B-roll, which he's done like for every row ceremony leading up to that and all the guys do that night. So the cameras being there and him being mic'd and things like that, he was still completely caught off guard. He wouldn't have been tipped off that something's going on. I did look it up. Increased drinking or swallowing,

along with frequent clearing of the throat, are potential indicators that a person is lying. Thank you. And if he wasn't prepared, then he didn't have a time to make the script. So then she came in and he was like, uh, uh, lie. Can't even think of my favorite movie line right now. See, I think it's less about lying

and more about him being full of shit. I think there is a difference. He kind of added himself even in that interview when he did say that he was like, either that or you're full of shit, because I'm like, no, that's you, sir, because you only see two options that it's either you're selfless or you're full of shit,

and I think you are full of shit. No, totally full of shit. Yeah. It just, I don't think he realizes how full of shit he is. No, and I think that's a fair thing to say as well. I don't think that he's like some sort of like evil genius that came on here to like mess with Jen and never, like he came on here to be on TV,

see what happens, whatever and whatnot. I don't think it was some sort of like elaborate plan to be an evil genius, but I do think that he's not very bright. I think that he was never really that attracted to Jen, knew he was the front runner and played the role up until he could no longer fake it. Yeah, so yeah, and he's faking his feelings towards Jen.

I do like that Jen clocked the whole point of him being like, I, I, I, she was like, this is a lot of you, but like I asked you about me. Yeah, and you know what? I could also see Sam being the type of person that would want to get up to like the final two in hopes that she would choose him and be like actually, I don't know, or like leave right before the rose ceremony.

So he could be the bachelor. That's what I think his goal was at the end of the day. For sure, yeah. It's just, he's clearly just not- Reading the room. Reading the room or just intelligent. Like he's gotten away with being how he is. Yeah.

And it's more, because it's like, even if he had no interest, right? Oh, Jen's talked about her family, you know, and her family struggle. What do you love about me? Well, you're just, you're so brave. You're brave. Like, obviously it's very challenging

to go through what you're going through with your family. You've been through so much and showing a lot of courage. That's what's so crazy about how bad he looked is that he couldn't even save himself. You did a whole thing where she jumped off a building, had a whole panic attack. You could have been watching you overcome obstacles that I know is really hard for you, seeing you jump off that building.

I know that you, just anything, literally anything. Watching Jen, it really seemed like when, listen, we've all been superficial before. We've all gone for the hotties. And we always wanna make the hotties work. We always want them to have the personality and have the compatibility that, you know, oh, they're, you know, like with all the,

no, but they're really great. You know, you're surprised at how great they will be and blah, blah, blah. Like we say this to ourselves first. And you see Jen fighting for this, you know, like with all the, no, but they're really great. You know, you're surprised by how great they will be and blah, blah, blah. Like we say this to ourselves first. And you see Jen fighting for this, you know, this connection with Sam. Because like her instincts tell her long before this episode that Sam doesn't have it.

Like it's all physical and things like that. His performance on the radio show with, he embarrassed himself. And subsequently at that point, it's just like, Jen, don't you see what we all see? But she like, it's like she wants it to work out. You know? She gave him so many chances.

So many. And I think the fact that Jeremy, who like fast forward a little bit, the fact that Jeremy got a hometown rose, shocking. Yeah. He really, like, I really, the first time we really seen him all episode, really liked the guy.

He seems like a really normal guy. We had Jen here, she talked about how much fun she had with him. I think the obvious criticism fans are gonna say is, it's like, why haven't we seen more of her and Jeremy? And listen, they clearly have footage of her and Jeremy that we're not seeing, but I really believe that he did come out of nowhere.

Like, you usually don't just have the last ditched hometown. Like, I was certain that she was gonna send him home. I was like, oh, she's clearly gonna send him home. You don't have your first one-on-one with someone you're about to take to hometowns. We haven't really seen anything. But I really think that generally disappointed in her men. Sam M was her first impression rose.

And thankfully she trusted her instincts and she kind of found out before, a lot of people find out after the show's done wrapped that they picked the wrong person. Right. Right. But I think she finally, her front runners didn't prove out to be who she wanted them to be.

As much as she resisted it, she really tried to make Sam M work. And then all of a sudden it's just like, I'm keep having fun with this Jeremy guy. So let's take him. I think she really, I think he, if you ask Jen, I'd be willing to bet she really noticed him later on, you know? Like, the more she talked to him,

the more she was like, I feel like almost, it's like a lot of the guys who made it to the Final Four, it's like, not all of them, like Grant always seemed like a really respectful guy, maybe there just wasn't a connection there, but it seemed like, instead of falling for the guy she took to hometowns, it seemed like a really respectful guy. Maybe there just wasn't a connection there, but it seemed like instead of falling for the guy she took to hometowns, it seemed like most of the guys that she sent home

really gave her the ick at some point. Like Sam ended up giving her the ick. Agreed, yeah. She's eliminating not choosing. She's eliminating, exactly, thank you. She's eliminating not choosing. And it's kind of like Jeremy was the beneficiary of being normal, being respectful,

being easy to be around, making her laugh. There might not be a future there. They have a nice rapport. It's very friend vibes. There's not a lot of chemistry, period. But he's there. And the reason why we didn't get to see a lot of them is because there isn't still a lot of them

and there's not those moments of really leaning in and having that chemistry. So they kind of aired it this way. I do think they have a lot of chemistry though. I do, yeah. Like she even said in her confessional, we have the same humor. I think they have a lot of rapport.

I think that's different than chemistry. Chemistry, you know, chemistry is chemistry. Even the toxic stuff, you can see ooze out, and that's why physical chemistry is so easy to see. But like chemistry is different than having a comfortability. She seems very comfortable with Jeremy, and it makes sense why.

He seems like a guy who's very good at making people feel comfortable. Part of the right way of making people feel comfortable is not saying weird fucking things, not being awkward, you know, and just having something to say, you know, just share, you know? And he seems really good at that, but I just don't think she had eyes for him early on. I think she over, listen, and knowing what it's like

to be overwhelmed by people, like I always say, you don't know what to trust in that environment. The only thing you can trust is your eyes. So whether you know who they really are outside of this bubble, it's like, well, I know they're gonna look like that when I leave. And so it's just easier to trust your eyes. So Jen, whoever the lead is,

they're always gonna trust their eyes first So Jen, whoever the lead is, they're always gonna trust their eyes first. And so Jeremy, handsome guy, but I think you're just not seeing the chemistry. But you're starting to see the rapport. And that comfortability. But rapport and comfortability is not chemistry to me. I still think that Jonathan,

they have the most chemistry, right? Like you would say? Yeah, but Marcus really, I mean, obviously a very heart wrenching story really opened up about his upbringing, his relationship with his sister, you know, pulling the heartstrings. That was a great day. I mean, it was, I mean, sponsored by Wicked,

but it seemed like a nice date. There seemed like, I honestly, I remember thinking to myself, maybe Marcus wins. I think he's top two. It was interesting though, the tell for her when she was saying, when they were picking between the boxes and it was slow and fast, I remember she was like, I like to move quick

and he was like, it takes me a while and she was like, well, that's kind of a red flag for me. That was kind of an interesting take because I feel like most people are always like, I wanna take things slow, I don't wanna rush into things and she was like, no, no, no, this might actually be an issue. I need you to be on my page.

Yeah, but I took it more as when she said red flag, not the type of red flag that she's gonna be like, I can't date this guy. I think she says it as like, quite honestly, it's gonna make her like a more. You think so? Yeah, sure. It's just like, well, especially since he does open up,

but that initial feeling, there is no greater powerful feeling in that environment, the lead worrying about the person they like not liking them back the same. You are in a position of power as the lead. You're told that everyone wants you, everyone hopes they end up with you, 25 to 35 people show up, you are literally the star.

And so you're told that you're the star, you're the star. And there's just an embedded expectation that if you hand out a rose, they're gonna accept. We obviously know that's not always the case, but generally speaking, that is the feeling that you feel. So the fear of rejection's even greater once you realize, wait a second, these people don't have to accept my roses. I actually might like someone

and they don't like me back the same. There's very human feelings in this environment and there is no greater powerful feeling than the lead worrying about the person they like not liking them back, which then makes them like it even more. So then you get, you know, like, have you ever liked someone and then like you were, they don't like you back,

that you put them on a pedestal immediately, there's something different about it, you can't explain it, why do I like them so much? And sometimes it's just knowing that you, that you don't think they like you. Yeah. You know, because, you know, and all the reasons that Jen likes people

in this environment, again, on some level, or surface level, because it's a surface level atmosphere. There's always such limited time. It's not any of these people's fault, it's the environment's fault. So her not knowing how he feels about her is a scary feeling and is definitely a red flag, but naturally it makes you like that person more.

That was the part that makes me think, oh, I think Marcus could win. The misdirection, things like that. Okay, okay. I still think I'm gonna go Jonathan. I'm going Jonathan too. Our final four is Devin, Jonathan, Jeremy and Marcus. Devin I feel like definitely doesn't have a chance

of winning and I only say that now because like they you know He's involved in the Sam drama Sam's digging his own grave now, you know, I don't need your commentary now Devin You know, it's like but they're airing it and it's just like he's not rising above I feel like he wasn't very prevalent this episode either because they've been so focused on his reactions to Sam And now that Sam dug his own grave and buried himself. Like it's- What's the storyline? Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, I don't know. We had, you know, it's like, it was Marcus's episode,

obviously, then, you know, Grant's episode a little bit too with him going home. So there's other people to focus on. Ugh, I was sad about Spencer. I really liked him. I liked him too. I'm excited. I hope they have him on Paradise

because I think he'll find a nice girl. Yeah, he seems like a nice guy. I just don't think him and Jen had any- Real chemistry. Yeah. No, Grant on the other hand guy. I just don't think him and Jen had any. Real chemistry. Yeah. Grant on the other hand, I was also kind of surprised too. I kind of thought that they had a little thing going

so I didn't see him not getting a rose. I thought Grant was, you know, we all, I think we all thought Grant was like top four. Yeah. Cause she was really attracted to him too. Yeah, I feel like they had great. I feel like they had good chemistry. Yeah, their dates were so cute, their conversations flowed.

Yeah, I would love to know what happened between him and Jen. Yeah. I mean, I think more from Jen's perspective, really, because Grant won't have any answers. It's like, why do you, why do you, you know, Grant probably was surprised. I don't know either, dude.

I don't, you know. I thought it was going well. She didn't give me a rose, you know, but like, I would have loved to have knowing what we know now. I'm curious why Jen, she would have given some candy to answer, but. Yeah, but even to your point though, where it's like, Jeremy kind of came out of nowhere, and then her

and Grant like had great dates, one-on-ones. So it's like, yeah, how did Jeremy sneak in and Grant was just not the one. Yeah, Spencer calling his mom. It was sad. Just like them playing it out. That made me think that he was going to be the next Bachelor. That you included the mom to give that sad edit of,

oh, he deserves more. Let's bring him back. That's what I thought. I think when they do moments like that, they don't know who their next Bachelor is going to be when they're filming it in that moment. And they're always gonna do things for guys that they think have a chance or, you know, who knows how things play out. I mean, listen, Grant's the bachelor. And so he went home literally the same time as Spencer,

but this is definitely a different, you know, and them announcing early, you know, so they could have made Spencer the bachelor, but yeah, they definitely, you know, calling your mom is, they can go both ways. It could go both ways, yeah. Yeah, especially with Spencer. But just like the mom going like, what happened?

Oh no, and he's like. Or like repeatedly calling him baby. Yeah, I don't know. That was sad, it made me tear up. No, listen, no one loves their mom more than me, but like as an adult man talking on the phone with mom, it's a fine line, it's a fine line. Okay.

Yeah, just, you wanna be close, but not too close. Who did you call first after getting sent home? My parents. Yeah. Oh, I have no problem with him calling his parents. Did she tell you everything was gonna be okay? It's just like when that's aired and that vulnerable moment, knowing that some sons can be too close with mom.

It was a great moment, but you know what I'm saying, we just don't know. What I'm saying, it's not the home run in the court of public opinion that other moments could be if we're trying to show someone in a good light. There you go. A simple call from mom, where there's a lot of love and closeness there

without a lot of context can be perceived in a lot of different ways. That's fair. Yeah, I think that's all we're saying. Yeah. That is all we're saying. It does make me wanna know more about Grant though, so. Well, we'll get to know Grant this Thursday

on Going Deeper of the Valfos, but before we get to Grant, tomorrow's Going Deeper is with the very multi-talented Grammy Award winner Carly Pierce is with us for an really just amazing episode of Going Deeper. I cannot wait for you guys to hear Carly and certainly from Grant on Thursday. It's going to be a wild, wild week. Plus next week, we've got some Love Island people. It's going to be great.

See you then. Bye.