The Viall Files - E792 Going Deeper with Carly Pearce

Episode Date: August 14, 2024

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper, with Carly Pearce! Today we have a bonus episode, and you don’t want to miss it. Carly Pearce just won a Grammy for Best Country Duo, and she’s ready to celebrate with us! How did she start out in music? How has heartbreak played a role in her creative process? And where is she now with her music?  “The Kentucky side of me came out, and I was like, this is for anybody who feels like they cant stand up.” Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  Thank You to Our Sponsors: Mudwtr - For a limited time, our listeners get up to 43% off your entire order, Free Shipping and a Free Rechargeable Frother when you use our exclusive link. Head to https://www.mudwtr.com/VIALL and grab your starter kit! ASPCA - To explore coverage, visit https://www.aspcaPetInsurance.com/VIALL  Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @carlypearce @ciararobinson @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 03:42 - Audience Drama 17:33 - Trauma and Art30:06 - Divorce 42:31 - We Dont Fight Anymore 46:59 - Imposter Syndrome 49:17 - Inspiration To Women 57:38 - Hummingbird 01:01:11 - Texting Office Hour 01:18:10 - Post Call Talk 01:18:55 - Outro

Are you a business owner or marketer looking to reach highly engaged podcast listeners just like you? AdvertiseCast can help. Whether you are looking to promote a national brand across Canada or a regional event or service, we've got you covered. Reach out today to Bob at AdvertiseCast.com That's B-O-B at AdvertiseCastinpodcast.com. You're crazy. Carly, welcome to The Vile Files. Thank you. So excited to have you.

I'm very excited to be here. How have you been? Like what's going on? What's new? I've been good. I just released a new record called Hummingbird and just released a new tour that's gonna be starting in the fall

and it's just been busy. World tour. World tour, first world tour. That's gotta be both exciting or do you get nervous about that stuff or is it only excitement? Definitely only excitement but I mean I'm going to countries that I've never been to,

so I don't know how that's gonna go, but hopefully it goes the way that all of the other European fans have kind of latched onto my music. It's funny, sometimes they have no idea what you're saying in between songs, but they sing every word in English. So you're doing something right. Yeah. That must feel very good.

Yes, it's cool. What is your favorite city that you've played in outside of the country? Everywhere in the UK. I don't know how to explain it. We just have some sort of love for each other that I have not experienced anywhere except there. What is it about it?

I think the UK fans really, really love albums. They don't just love singles on the radio. They really love songwriting. They love storytelling, which is my whole thing. If you want like a drunken fest, I'm probably not the music for you. I need you to be in your feels with me. So they just, they get it.

They get me. How is that something that you like, when you're going to do this world tour, how are you finding where your fan base is? Is this something that you have people who can look at like where the downloads are? Like how is, how do you base your world tour? I've played a festival called the C2C a couple of times,

which is country to country. And I've been to Ireland through that, the UK, Germany. And then I did my own tour of my album, 29, a few years ago there. So we kind of had a baseline, I guess, for that. But we're going to places. I'm going to Cologne. I didn't even know that was a place.

Love, right? Where is that? Fun. Couldn't tell you, not sure, but it's going to places. I'm going to Cologne. I didn't even know that was a place. Love, right? Where is that? Fun. Couldn't tell you, not sure, but it's over there somewhere. And I'm really excited. I think it is Germany. Do we know what country?

I think it's Germany. Are we outing all of us? You know, we're all like, uh. I'm like, Cologne. It sounds fun. I like their coffee. Yeah. Germany.

Germany? Germany, great. Oh yeah, Sierra. I don't know. Just places that you never thought country music mattered and it does, so. That is always fascinating when you hear, like mentioning people knowing your lyrics

but not speaking the language. Switzerland was the craziest. I played in Switzerland and they were staring at me while I was talking and I was like, these people hate me. It's just terrible, like I wanna go off stage and then I would start singing and they sang everywhere. But then it would go back to just,

they had no idea what I was saying. Wow, that's funny. So do you think you'll adjust on this next tour for non-English speaking tours? Because that's kind of always a big part of a concert is to interact with fans and have those conversations, especially I think a lot of country festivals that I've been to recently in my new found fame

for country music. But yeah, it's like you all have like, well, conversations. I think that's what I really enjoyed so much about, you know, country music and the festivals. It really is like a very intimate session, you know, like with like they, country singers really bring you kind of on stage with them with those conversations. Like how are you gonna go about that

in this world tour with the countries where they're just like. And they're like. And they're like. Little babble. Yeah exactly. I think my expectation now is that they probably don't know what I'm saying, but for some reason my music has resonated with them in some way.

So I think I will know that they want to be there instead of wondering if they hate me. Yeah, yeah. Cause I've experienced it. Well, you've recently made some fun little headlines, which we love. We love someone who will push back and stand up for themselves. And obviously recently you made some headlines

with a very rude, was it gentleman in the fans? It was a gentleman. It was a gentleman. I wouldn't call him a gentleman. He wasn't. A prick, a jerk, a gentleman. It was a gentleman. I wouldn't call him a gentleman. He wasn't. He wasn't. A prick, a jerk, a dick. I mean, yeah.

Yeah, so. What is up with those people? I think as an artist, you have to understand that you're going to have people who don't enjoy your music, who are going to be quote unquote that guy at a show. I've been doing this eight years professionally at this level. I think that right now, I said this to somebody,

like it feels, and I know this isn't the right word for it, but it feels like an epidemic across the board, not just in country music, just social media, where it's at, with Reddit and comments, and just there's so much hate that I, unfortunately, as my therapist tells me, I shop for pain, so I'll go on and look at what people say about me and I'm like, who are you?

You do not know me. You do not know anything. Why do you feel this power to be able to do this? Or just nasty comments or nasty DMs. And I know it happens to all kinds of people. And when he said that to me, I think it was for every single person that just sits behind their computer or thinks somebody's not gonna call you out people. And when he said that to me, I think it was for every single person that just sits behind their computer or thinks

somebody's not going to call you out or you talk shit about like I just saw red, I became my mother. The Kentucky side of me came out and I was like, this is for anybody who feels like they can't stand up. And sure, could I have used a different word choice? Yeah, I could have. I'm really appreciative of the word choice you made. People are like, I've never seen you like that. I'm like, well, I think especially as a female,

you're kind of sometimes, I know for me, like male artists all the time are cussing people out of their shows and nobody knows about it. But because I did it, it was like, and it's just like women should stand up for themselves too and not be afraid. And that guy probably, I mean, I don't think he thought that I would ever hear him, which is a problem for me.

It's like, so that's why I went over to him. I'm like, did you say it? And he was like, he raised his hand and I was like, oh, you're out. Raised his hand. He just had this like entitlement. And I was like, I'm a human being too. And people forget because they put you on a pedestal because you're on the radio

or you wear fancy outfits or whatever. It's like, your words hurt me too. And remember. Yeah, they wanna test you almost. Yeah, it's like, remember I have feelings too. And I just hope that somebody in that audience that maybe thought that they couldn't stand up for themselves or who's seen this stupid video knows like,

you can fight back. Yeah. It's okay. Yeah. For the people who don't know, you went to, I think you said like, I wanna tell you a little bit about myself and he yelled, we don't care. Yes. I don't care. Yes. I was like, let me tell you a little bit about myself.

I was five songs into my set and I heard, and he was far away from me. And he was like, no one cares. And it was like this split second where I was like, let me tell you a little bit about myself. I was five songs into my set and I hurt and he was far away from me. And he was like, no one cares. And it was like this split second where I was like, okay, yep, I'm gonna do it. Yeah. And it was like, and my band, my poor band, they're all in their mics going, what's going on?

What did he say? She looks really mad. And I just went down and I was like, who said that? And everybody's going. And he raised his hand and smiled at me. And that was just like, you're done. See at that point when, before I realized he raised his hand, maybe he was just like mouthing off in the stands,

like thinking he's being funny to friends. Totally. You would have thought maybe once you called him out, he would have sheepishly kind of looked around and like, oh fuck, I shouldn't have said that. He could have just gone. He doubled down. He could have been like, I fuck, I shouldn't have said that. But he doubled down. He could have been like, I'm sorry.

And if he was sorry in that moment and can look me in the eye and say, I'm sorry, sure, but he didn't. And for him, I was like, for anybody who trolls somebody or is just an asshole, I'm gonna do this for you. I was like, get out of my show. He could have gone and go get a beer if you don't like my songs, like go,

I don't want you here either. Do you know who he was with? Was he with a lady friend? He was with his girl. My tour manager said, she was like, where did you take him? We're like, he's gone. Don't claim him right now.

He's at home. Just walk back in there and act like you don't know him. You do not want to know him right now. Break up immediately. Yeah, break up immediately. He's not nice. He's not. What have been the fan reactions from that experience?

I'm assuming and hoping a lot of support for, like you said, just standing up for yourself. And you're right. I think in a lot of spaces, I think there's an expectation of you just looking the other way, turning the other cheek, being above the fray and things like that. And it's nice to see you to say, fuck this, this is my show. And you can't come in here and and things like that. And it's nice to see you to say, fuck this, this is my show and like you can't come in here and treat people like that. Certainly, you know, not people who are like,

you know, you're putting your love in your music and it's a very, I'm assuming there's a lot of fun to being on stage, but it's also incredibly vulnerable. Yeah, I mean, I felt, I mean, he made me feel so insecure in that moment. I wanted to run off stage and cry, cause I'm a human. And what's been so great is I feel like for the majority,

so many people have been like, that was so awesome that you stood up for yourself. And, you know, of course there are people that are like, you shouldn't have said those words. And it's like, I understand, but haven't you been a human being and blown up at any point in your life? I'm sorry, I didn't know you were perfect.

Sorry that I'm not. But I've had dads be like, you will be an example for my daughters that they can stand up for themselves. I've had other female country artists be like, thank you for showing that we are just like anybody else. We shouldn't be held to the standard that we can't call somebody out.

Has anyone reached out personally in the space? Yeah. Any, can you say? I mean, Kelsey Ballerini is one of my dear friends, Lainey Wilson. Oh, we love her. That's kind of how I knew it got viral because within five minutes of each other,

Kelsey and Lainey texted me and I was like, uh-oh, this isn't good. But they were so supportive and it was like, girls aligned in that moment of like, I think it's great. I'm assuming they've experienced similar stuff and probably wanted us, I can say something, but we're just like, oh no, what? And you probably gave them that kind of-

Well, we're all, I mean, nobody really understands, just like you don't know what it's like to be in any field. It's like, when you're just, I'm gonna speak to the females in country music. It's like, there's so few of us. And when you have that kind of support from people that you love and that genuinely are building you up,

they're like, hey, I see you. They understand it on a level that, you know, my girlfriend isn't gonna understand. When they're like, we back you, like he didn't deserve to be there. Thank you for doing that. It's like, okay, I'm glad to know that they've got my back too.

And it probably, I hope it opened a door for people to be able to speak up, especially girls. It's like, you don't have to tolerate that. I feel like it's similar in like my quote unquote field is like when you get like a nasty DM and you put it on your story and be like, this is what someone sent me. And then everyone's like, whoa, why would you out them?

Why are you gonna put them on blast? It's like, they're sending me something mean. What do you mean? Like, I'm trying to tell y'all that this is not okay. And like, or responding to a comment or something You always kind of get this shit for like responding. It's always like well, just just ignore don't say anything and it's like Why don't want to fucking ignore they're being rude. Totally. I had a girl DM me and she was a mother but she was young and she was like I

Love you, but I'm so disappointed in the way that you spoke. You have children that look up to you. You should be ashamed of yourself. And I went, reply. And I said, first of all, I'm so sorry that you feel this way, but I'm also super disappointed in you that you are passing judgment on me. Of course she had like a Bible verse in her profile. And I was like, oh yeah, you're really like showing God's love right now to me when you know, of course she had like a Bible verse in her, you know, I was like, Oh yeah, you're really like showing God's love right now to me when you don't know me. And I said, first of all, I'm a human being and have you never just had enough? I hope that you

will take this and think about maybe giving people grace and not passing judgment. And she back down and that's what I'm talking about. They don't. They don't think you're gonna read it. And it's just, I know that people deal with this from age like 13 to, you know, it's like people don't have any kind of like ramifications for their actions. And it's like, let me tell you how I feel about you. And then they're like, oh my gosh, I totally didn't mean to be a troll.

Like, I'm so sorry, I totally get it. I didn't give you grace. And it's like, okay, well then learn from them. And if that's what this does, like it's a conversation going of like, maybe think before you speak, maybe think before you send the nasty comment or the nasty DM.

I mean, I have so many friends and we all like compare DMs and it's just like, people are so mean. I'm tired of Reddit, I'm tired, I'm just, I'm tired of all of it. Yeah, it's really crazy. We do a really good job of just like, we don't even, we don't look, we don't think about it. It's like, it's not even, it doesn't exist.

And I need to do that. Do you, have you been on Reddit? Like, do you go and read some of your comments? It's a whole conversation with all my friends. Like, why do you do it to yourself? I told you, my therapist is like shopping for pain. That's a whole conversation with all my friends. Like, why do you do it to yourself? I told you my therapist is like shopping for pain. That's a very interesting, I love, you have a good therapist.

Oh my God. Shopping for pain, yeah. Late at night I'm like, let's see if there's a forum about me. And then it's like, oh God, Reddit hates me. And I take it so personally. And I think like there's so many feelings in there that it's like, whoever's doing that,

you've won because you make me question myself and that's really frustrating. Yeah. Give her your, give her your. Let's hear it. Let's hear it. I think, I mean, I'm the same way. I think I, I think I'm a little bit addicted to pain.

Total. Me too. Sometimes. I think we all are to a certain degree. Like I think one of the things I learned a long time ago that I've Always remember and think about is how our brain prefers pain to boredom Mm-hmm and like because pain is a form of stimulation and we would rather be stimulated than bored. Yeah

I always tell myself I don't like drama and I think for the most part that's true But like yeah, you I asked myself like why do sometimes do you scratch that itch or do you go look at the comments or do you You know, what is it that kind of that need for? Whatever it is, you know excitement or pain or something that yeah, like that What did you therapist say again? Oh shopping for shopping for pain or it's like I'll look at even in this situation or when I'm Posting a new song I'm posting my album or I'm posting an outfit that I wore on a red carpet, I'll read all the comments and 95% of them are positive, but the 5%

is what I then internalize and take with me. Why? Because the positive ones are more dangerous because when you read the positive ones, all the comments are from people you don't know. Right? You don't know any of these people. So the positive ones, all the comments are from people you don't know, right? No, you don't know any of these people. So the positive ones are like,

Karlie, you're amazing, oh my God, goals, you're beautiful, you're stunning. And so you read it and you're like, yep, man, that's so nice. And so your subconscious brain is saying, well, these are people we should believe. And so you read the 10 or the 15 or the 100 positive comments. So now your brain is saying, these are valid comments.

And then all of a sudden that bad one comes. And so your subconscious brain is saying, well, we have to believe the bad one because we just spent the past 10 minutes validating these 99 positive comments. Yep. And so it really, it fucks you. It really gets in your head.

But what do you say about Reddit? It's like handcuffs or something to- Oh, well, it fucks you. It really gets in your head. But what do you say about Reddit? It's like handcuffs or something to. Oh, well it handcuffs you creatively. Yeah. Because like, you know, I don't know how to write music of any kind, but like when it comes to the show, like, you know, we have instincts

in terms of what our audience likes or what it doesn't like. And we've been doing this long enough that we have a sense of it. But like, it's one thing to wanna get feedback from people. You wanna connect with fans certainly, right? But you have millions of fan hours. This is like listening to music this morning.

I forget which song it was, but it has like 126 million streams or something ridiculous like a third of our country. That's an amazing number. And so you think of all those people and it's just like they all have different opinions. And it's just like those are their opinions. And it's like for us to start listening to their opinions, it's just like it will make a second guess ourselves. Totally. And how many different opinions can you listen to before you start, you know, changing what's your instincts, you know, and our instincts

is like, well, all we have. So yeah, it's always handcuffs you creatively. Well, and it's so interesting, like Trisha Yearwood has become a mentor to me. And she told me years ago, she's like, I don't envy the generation that you're coming into in this platform because they didn't know what we were doing. They didn't know where we were.

They came to our shows, they listened to our records, and we didn't know how they actually felt either. And it's like, that's so true. We live in just a generation that everybody can publicly give their opinions and you just have to choose. Well, yes, you have access to almost every single one of your fans opinions if you want to. And that's-

I gotta quit shopping. That's terrifying. Your big cart. Yeah. What other people's opinions are, none of our business is something I tried to remind myself. Because yeah, or What other people's opinions are, none of our business. Is something I tried to remind myself. Because yeah, or just like people's opinions are their opinions, you know, type of thing.

Where it's just like, and you have millions of fans and every single one of your fans has a different opinion of who you are. And none of which matters. Or is a reflection of actually who you are. It's just their opinion. Good or bad. Yep.

Yeah. Well, going back to that guy, I found out that he made a TikTok just so that he could comment. Of course. And so he is the worst. He's confirmed. Yeah. Apparently owns a bar in the town and wrote on one of the videos.

Um, if you want the real story, come to my bar. The real story. Like what he's going to show up. I'm like, brother, the story is on the internet. Like, real story, like what he's gonna show up and be like. I'm like, brother, the story is on the internet. Like, I don't know what you're. There's footage of the story. You're an asshole? Yeah.

You should name it Carly's Bar. He's getting up on the bar every 30 minutes. So from the beginning. He's like, what are you gonna do? So where do you think the shopping for pain desire comes? Like, do we wanna talk about past trauma? No. I'm a creative, especially comes. Like, do we wanna talk about past trauma? No.

Creative, especially like growing up, I always gravitated towards sad songs. I think that's probably why I found such a love of country music. Yeah, there's a lot of heartbreaking music, a lot of. Really? No, no, no. Yeah, I mean, I think I'm an emotional, I'm a feeler.

I'm somebody that it's much easier. And I think even happy artists that would tell you, like, they have really successful marriages or relationships, I think they would tell you it is easier to write from a place of sadness than it is happy. It is so much easier to write. Even if I'm very happy in my life, it's much harder to write a compelling, positive song

than it is an emotional. I literally was writing yesterday and it was like, oh my gosh, we wrote like an up tempo song. This is so exciting because it's just not innately what is easy for me. That makes sense. I think that's probably the case for most people. I think you're just more connected, I think, with yourself when you are, you know, stuck. Right. Well, I think it's, you know, cause I think a lot of heartbreak, that's what it does, it gets you stuck. And then if you're stuck, you ruminate and the more you ruminate, then you're you're going to like, Oh, that was pretty good thoughts. I suppose that's why I think when we're not stuck in our emotions, then

we're a little more present and we're a little bit more connected with the people around us, but probably a little less creative. If there's a lot of, definitely a lot of truth to that when you think about it. Have you always been like that? Yeah. My parents say when I was a little kid that they would hear the music coming from my bedroom and it was like really sad,

Alison Krauss songs or the deep cuts on a Patti Loveless record or, and they were just like, I don't understand. Like I think I've always just, I've been extremely emotional from the time I was a kid. I always wanted the sad songs. I've always, and even, I mean, my first single at country radio is a heartbreak ballad

about a guy who hurt me called Every Little Thing. And I feel like people are just able to relate to pain too, which is interesting. But yeah, I mean, I've kind of built my career on pain. Or you could call it therapy. Because I will say that's something, which is interesting. But yeah, I mean, I've kind of built my career on pain. Okay, but- Or you could call it therapy. Because I will say that's something, anytime I'm listening to sad music

in the bathtub or something, I'm like, okay, have a little cry. Even if I'm not in that space, it's like, it's cathartic. It gets something out that I'm like holding onto. So I'm like, it's easy to relate to. Also, yeah, because I think we feel so alone when we're sad or heartbroken. You know, and I think we're always looking

for companionship. For sure, and for me, I mean, it's so interesting. I wish that people could see the, you know, I've gone through a lot of things that I've written about and I felt so alone in those moments, but every night I get to see the redemptive side of being honest and seeing people who are like, oh my gosh, this song got me through this,

or this song is why I was able to leave this relationship or you're the one that helped me to finally file for divorce. And it's like, okay, there's something bigger here happening than just writing music for me. And that's something that I've discovered over the last five years. And it's like, sometimes your pain is for such a greater purpose or your story, whether you want it to be or not.

Do you think being the emotional person you are and someone who has been told by the therapist that you maybe seek out pain, do you think the downside of that is like how much is your desire to seek this pain out? Do you think has played a role in your personal relationships or have you been able to separate the two creatively? Or do you think sometimes maybe staying in that space as an artist, wanting to create this wonderful music has almost caused you in your relationships to, I don't know, self-sabotage or anything like that? Or do you think you're able to separate that?

I think I'm such a seeker of love that I get love bombed. I think I actually desire that so much, but I think it's easier. I think it, you know, I'm in my thirties now and it's like, I kind of, I'm sure there's some kind of feeling in me that's like, oh, this is gonna end too a little bit

where I go to that place. But no, I mean, I've always, and I mean, I say this now, like even everything I've been through, like I still know the caliber of love that I deserve and the relationship that I deserve. And I think as I've kind of worked through a lot of my music, it's less about the pain and more about the story for me now.

It's like, I feel stronger than I ever have because I was able to overcome certain things and I'm able to articulate those stories in a way that people relate to because I've lived it. And so, I don't know, I think like, this was always what was meant for me. Not saying like, I was meant to go through hell, but I was meant to have a bigger story than I wanted

because I'm now able to put into words I think what some people really needed. You know I'm someone who you know got married later in life and I've had my own ups and downs in relationships and I take great pride in my ability to have been able to get through things where I look back when I was younger and in those moments I thought I would like never get through them. Yeah I think, like you said, just having a lot of your fans connect with your music or connect with what you've been through. Because I do think we live in a society

where I think there's still an expectation to whatever, graduate, high school, college, whatever it is you wanna do education-wise, find your person, settle down, get married. And it's just like, there's a judgment of society of reinventing yourself, like after you're 20, or if you jump into a relationship and you get married and have kids or not have kids or get divorced, like we're always afraid of what

society is gonna say about us or judge us, and it takes a lot of encouragement and strength to get through these things and breakups. And I'm assuming it's been really inspiring for you to connect with your fans going through your own kind of difficult breakups. I mean, you've got married, you got divorced, that's gotta be obviously a very difficult challenge.

What has your music done for you to get through some of those more difficult times? Oh gosh, I mean, I remember this is such like a moment where I had to make a decision, but I remember my divorce wasn't public yet, but I knew that it was happening. And we were holding it because my song was about to go number one. So we weren't going public with the divorce yet because I mean, that's how messed up this can be at times. So my mind was all over the place and I was, I had just lost my producer,

Busby, he had died of glioblastoma brain cancer. So I was like mourning that, also mourning my loss of my marriage. And then my team's like, we need you to write a new song for a new, like we need you to move on to a new project. I'm like, okay. And I remember I was set up with Shane McAnally and Josh Osborne on Zoom during COVID. And my team was like, hey,

like, you know, people don't know that you're about to file for divorce. I think you should try to write us like, like a life song. I was like, because that makes sense to not write about love when I'm a newlywed. Okay. And they're like, you know, just don't go there. And I think about this moment because I think it is like the moment that changed everything for me in my career, but also changed everything for me just as a woman. They popped up on my screen and I don't, I mean, I knew them, but I didn't know them well and I looked at both of them and I knew what everybody wanted me to do that

was safe and politically correct and what you're told to do to just keep peace. And I looked at him and I said, I wanna write a song called, or I said, I'm filing for divorce. They both were like, like they both were just shocked. And I said, I wanna write a song called 29, the year I got married and divorced.

And we wrote 29 and Next Girl that day. Wow. And it, so what it has done for me is, did I wanna get divorced? Absolutely not. I went into that marriage thinking it was gonna last. I thought I was waiting, oh, I'm in my late 20s, like this makes total sense.

But when my life blew up, I had a decision to make, I could either run from it, you know, and we had been very public and I was like, I don't wanna lie to people. I want to go there. I want to say how I'm actually feeling. Yes, I understand that it's easier for me to write a life song, but that's not my life anymore.

And so that has helped me to just be unapologetically myself. I write music from a place where if it gets played on the radio, wonderful. If I win awards, wonderful. If I sell tickets, wonderful. But it's so much more about, can I stand behind this music that I'm singing and do I believe it?

And I think that experience, I remember writing 29 and being like, I wonder if my team is gonna let me put this music out. And they were like, oh my God, we have to put this out now. I was like, but are people gonna relate to this? This is so personal. I mean, it was so verbatim what I was going through. And that was the album during a pandemic

that changed my career. And people found their stories in it. And it's like, oh, especially in the South, especially in country music, it's like, oh, you don't wanna say, oh, I'm getting a divorce, oops. I do believe in God, but I'm getting a divorce because this is not what I wanted. I will die before I stay in something that is not what I know I'm supposed to have. Mudwater is a coffee alternative filled with chai, cacao, lion's-made, chaga, rishi, quarter-steps, turmeric, and

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Insurance Company and produced by PTZ Insurance Agency Limited. The ASPCA is not an insurer and is not engaged in the business of insurance. What was it about that relationship that you're comfortable sharing? You know, because obviously there's a lot of opinions when it comes to marriage, especially when it comes, I'm from the Midwest, you're from the South, Natalie's from the South, lovely groups of people, but at times they could be judgmental when people don't follow certain traditions that they want us to.

And I gotta assume, and like you said, when we get married, we don't get married with the, I'm gonna give it a few years mentality, we get married with a till death do us part mentality. And when it doesn't work out, I can only imagine what you're going through. And so how did you get to that place where you decided as difficult as it was?

And like you said, you guys were public with your relationship, you know, you, hey, relationship goals and get all your fans loving you. He's a public figure, you're a public figure, you know, relationship goals, power couple, all the things that it's easy to buy into. But how did you find the strength to look at this relationship? And despite all the things that it's easy to buy into. But how did you find the strength to look at this relationship?

And despite all the reasons why it might've been easier to just grind it out, push through, what was it about that relationship that you said, I can't do this anymore, this doesn't serve me? And how did you work through that? I feel like God had mercy over me during the pandemic, I feel like God had mercy over me during the pandemic, meaning he allowed my life to completely stop.

I couldn't kind of keep kicking the can down the road, meaning like, oh, I don't have to see, we don't have to be together for a few, like it'll be fine, it'll be fine. And I was alone in my thoughts and I also had the ability to hide. Meaning, I didn't have to go do interviews every day to almost because I feel like subconsciously when you're trying to get your gut knows but you kind of don't want to go there and especially, you know, we had such a public thing that I was like, oh, it's fine. It's fine. I can convince

myself that this is fine. And I think when I laid down at night in the stillness, I knew that this wasn't the relationship that I deserved. And so instead of wasting my life, I've always been somebody that's gone after what she wanted. It was kind of this moment with myself of going, why am I tolerating this? Why am I staying this? Sure, everybody's gonna have an opinion about it.

Some people are gonna think I'm the problem. Some people are gonna think, oh, she's crazy. Oh, it's her. He's wonderful. Yada yada, all these different things. But at the end of the day, there was something in me that was like, I refuse to waste my life in this. I know now, thank God I know now before I have children, before I've put in years, like, yes, this is about as country as it can get to get married and divorced in a year, but I'm not going to waste my life anymore. And I thought that this was a pure relationship. And I thought we both had the same intentions. We didn't. And, you know, this is years and years removed from it, but I stand by this statement that I've always said, God knows the truth. My mother and my father know the truth. My friends know the truth, my band knows the truth,

they experienced it with me. Whether or not somebody else wants to admit the truth, it's fine, you have to live with that. But guess what, I don't. For the people listening, and fans of yours who maybe are recently married, or I don't know, or just married, not even recently, and there's a disconnect with their partner,

and they are trying to figure out whether this is something they should fight through and work through because every relationship has its challenges and people go through low periods and they can work through it and come out the other side better for it. What advice would you give to that person to come to that conclusion,

whether this is something that is worth trying or hey, maybe you've only been married for less than a year, but like, when you know, you might know, and it's better to get out now rather than, you know, waste any more time. You know, how would you guide someone who came to you and said, hey, Carly, I'm struggling with something

that similarly you struggled with, how do I make this decision? I talk a lot about my gut. So you have an intuition. There's a discernment that you should know what is acceptable and what's not. I think there is such a difference in two people respecting a relationship,

being loyal to the relationship, not abusing the relationship. Those things I think are the big things where I would say, you should probably walk away, especially if you're newly married and you're figuring these things out. But I think if both people, respect is so big to me and loyalty is so big to me and just being kind,

if those are not there and you're, ask the people around you, ask your family, ask your close friends, how do they feel? You know what's acceptable and what's not. And if you're questioning it, you should probably get out. Where there are a lot of behaviors that changed once you guys got married. Well, I mean.

I mean. Look, yeah. I'm trying to think like, were there things about us? We are very different people. We have very different ways of life. Were there things before we got married that I was kind of like, huh, that's different, sure. But I mean, yes, there were definitely things

the night of my wedding that it was like, uh-oh, this isn't good. And you know, forever, I'm just like, I wanna say to anybody out there, and he has his own story for it and whatever, it's just like, don't take away that from a girl if you know that you don't wanna be in it. Because I'm sure he knew he didn't wanna be in it

at that point. You think so? You think the night of your wedding, your gut told you. I think so. And again, he's living his life and I wish him well. I hope he has made peace with everything. But it's like, just don't, just don't do it. If you don't wanna do it, I think that's my only thing

that I'm like, just don't, don't marry her. I don't know, I think it meant more to me than it did him. That's formidable, yeah. My family, we've all had to grieve that. My father's had to deal with that. And you know, I'm his only child and his only daughter and he's had to feel like he is responsible. It's just been a lot of pain

for my family outside of the person. It could be anybody, but it's just like, don't, just don't. And then when do you think the pain comes from, like we all hope that we only get married once. Of course. You know, all the things that go into it, but do you feel like you've been able to get through that? And I mean, cause that's kind of what I was talking about,

it's like society's standards. Like at the end of the day, who gives a fuck? I don't care what anyone truly, like, yes, the comments. What do you think, like in terms of whatever you, have you ever like since your divorce been like, I can't believe I wasted that on him, or wasted my first marriage, or like, all these moments of walking down the aisle,

all these things that go into a wedding, I can't, I've only been married to Natalie, right? I've been engaged a couple times, but we, you know. Really? Ah! But like when that was happening, it's silly, you know, like, and I, you know, things that happen on TV

compared to real life silly, but in that moment it was very real for me. And I remember feeling like I wasted this, all this shit, like all the things I said, and that's nothing compared to what you went through. And I think it's very easy for people in your shoes to go through that mental exercise of forgetting

about what people say, judging yourself, you know, judging, you know, what does it say about me or, you know, yeah, how did you work through that? Because you mentioned your family's struggle, but like, have you been able to let go of whatever judgment you had for yourself during your divorce and truly just be free of it so that you no longer see it as

a mistake or something that you have to regret or wish didn't happen because I'm assuming you also learned a lot from that experience. Learned so much about myself, learned how strong I am. I was so mad at myself. I took that into other relationships. I couldn't believe that I wasted something that meant so. I've always wanted to be an artist, but I think as I've gotten older, I realize how much I desire companionship. And it's like, I'm 34 and still haven't found it. And it's like, what that relationship did to me,

it forever changed me. And for a long time, it hardened me. I thought every relationship was gonna be like that. I thought every person was like that. But I think now that's a part of it. That's a part of my story. I have forgiven myself because I think any young girl, and that's why it's so important to me. That's why I write songs about it. That's why I'm like, please learn younger, your worth, and like what you deserve and be able to notice things that maybe aren't right before you do that. And I mean, I think I'll forever,

who knows if I'll ever get married again. I hope I do. I want to. Because I always joke, I'm like, everything about that wedding was so pretty except for the person. I joke with my friends, I'm to, because I always joke, I'm like, everything about that wedding was so pretty except for the person. I joke with my friends, I'm like, man, I know how to throw a good wedding. But if you want to, then you will.

And I believe that I will, I do not believe because like I've said, it is such a desire, I know I have so much to give, I know that I went into it with pure intentions and I'm so much more equipped now to be able to be in the right relationship where it's the right pairing. But I mean, yeah, it's been honestly just as painful

to watch my parents have to kind of wrestle with that as well as their only child. And it's just a, it's a tough thing. Do you think your parents can let the pain go? I hope so. My dad, I don't know. I hate that, I mean, listen, we love our parents and I've been through some shit in relationships.

And as I've gotten older, you know, when I was younger, when I was like in my 20s and I was heartbroken, I was like, oh my God, you know, I was calling my mom every day. And as I've gotten older, you know, like, yeah, you get a little hardened and things was like, oh my God, I was calling my mom every day. And as I got older, you know, like, yeah, you get a little hardened and things like that, but also you just become more emotionally resilient. Totally.

And then I've had times with my parents where it's just like, are you okay? And I'm like, I'll be okay. Yeah. And like, I just need you to let it go sometimes. Yes. Sometimes, you know, your parents can love you so much that they will call you up when you're ready,

kind of emotionally move on, but they haven't yet, and they can almost sometimes bring you back into that. They're well-intentioned, because they know, you know they love you, but sometimes it's like, wait, I guess did I still feel bad about this? Because I'm ready to kind of let this go and move forward. And how do you get to that place where you can almost let your parents' sadness

and pain around this be theirs rather than holding it on for you to deal with? Well, it's almost so funny. It's like my parents, it's like they don't want me to feel that anymore. And my dad is always like, God, the one thing that I hope for you is that you stop looking backwards.

He's like, just go forward. You deserve so much more. And I mean, my mother is always like, oh, you could date him, oh, you could date him, oh, you could date him. What about him? What about him?

Because they want that for me. And it's, I feel like they know what I deserve and they want me to be able to let that go fully. And I think there are some things that'll never be healed until I do get married again, because I think I need to be able to rewrite that whole experience for myself.

My hope for you, just getting to know you, is that when you talk about marriage, that you stop saying, that disclaimer you gave us like two minutes ago, which is I don't know if I'll ever get married. And then then follow that up saying I want to. And just knowing that like, you will. Like when?

I have no idea. Like will it happen when you want it to? Almost certainly not. But you will, you know? And so that like thought of like, well, I don't know if I'll ever happen to me is still that almost that child inside you that's like afraid of saying

I'm gonna have this for myself in that belief because I have been hurt before and I'm afraid to like just let that guard down. Yeah. You know, but you will find it for sure. I mean. Go find me a husband. Hell yeah.

Yeah. We don't fight anymore collaboration that you did with Chris Stapleton. First of all, great song. Thank you. Amazing song. Amazing song. One of those more relatable lyrics. It almost can be confusing too,

especially for the people in the relationships that can be a little bit toxic. I think sometimes we have a way of being like, well, at least it's good that we fight. Things like that. So when you wrote that song, what was the event that inspired that song? And how do you find the balance in relationships between,

like at least we don't fight anymore, like you want them to care. There's nothing worse than being in a relationship where you feel like you don't even give a shit. Yep. Okay, now what do I do with that type of thing versus not settling for a relationship that is full of frustration and fighting

and things like that and finding, being so desperate to connect with your partner that you actually look for the fights Totally and so how do you find that balancing your own relationships? Yeah, and I guess what inspired you to write that song I felt like I wanted to write a song about what I think is the most painful part of any Relationship and you could be in the relationship or it could be an old relationship It's like the indifference of it, where if there is truly indifference on one side or both sides, that's when you know that what are you doing?

Is this just comfortable? Is this whatever? And so that's kind of when we came to the idea of we don't fight anymore. It's such a simple thought, but it's like relationships can go cold, you can find it again, but if it reaches a point of indifference,

it's like something is not right. And there's a Leanne Womack song that really inspired this song for me, just the emotion where it's like, you can go or you can stay, I won't love you either way. It's like, oh. And Chris Stapleton actually wrote that song. So it's like all connected,

Chris writes to like the place that I love in my heart. And what's funny is when I wrote We Don't Fight Anymore, I was thinking of how that song made me feel and just how simple it was in that indifference moment. But I wasn't thinking about having him on it until I heard the demo. And I was just like, I need to try to get Chris's voice on this very badly.

And he brought just a whole different perspective. He brought the other person's perspective to it. And I think if you get to that moment, you can rebuild it. But if you, you know, if it crashes and burns right there, then that's such a beautiful song. Thanks. Great. How did you, I mean, the music video is, is just as good as the song and Lucy Hale is in it, right? How did Lucy Hale come to a lot of people don't know this, but when I was, I was in Nashville for like eight years before I ever got a record deal. And I had so many different jobs. And one day I was asked to be in a music video that was going to be shot at the Grand Ole Opry for Pretty Little Liar star Lucy Hale.

And I was like, oh, she's singing. Okay. And I went and I was the background singer. And I remember standing on the Opry stage and I had always said as a little girl, I'm never gonna stand in that circle until they've asked me to come and sing. And here I am standing on the stage, not in the circle watching another girl be in the circle. And I was like, this is not how I thought

I'd be on this stage for the first time, but it's fine. And I went up to her tour manager after the set and I was like, hey, if you ever need a background singer, which why would they need a background singer that doesn't like play a great instrument or whatever? It was so stupid that I did that, but also like kind of opened this door. They called me, I ended up being her background singer.

It was like right when Instagram was hitting. So she, I didn't tell her I was an artist. I didn't tell her that I was wanting to be an artist. I remember flying to LA and being like, maybe my voice is meant to be helpful to other voices. Maybe I'll never get to the front mic. And she YouTube'd me one night and she's like, why are you singing with me?

Like, you're so good. And I was like, I don't know why I'm singing with you but I'm here. And she kind of made it her mission to have her fans understand that I was like, I don't know why I'm singing with you but I'm here. She kind of made it her mission to have her fans understand that I was an artist. And we've stayed in touch and just through that experience she was just one of the first people that really had a platform and helped me with her platform.

And so I've always wanted to kind of see it come back, she'll come to my shows and we talk and all this stuff but I felt like this was the right music video that I needed somebody that could just say it all in their face. And she immediately was like, oh my gosh, I would love it. And we want to see him to award for the song and for the video.

And it was just the coolest full circle moment of like closing that relationship of going like, you helped me when nobody knew who I was and now you're coming back to bring this to life. Do you ever struggle with imposter syndrome? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Maybe that sounds like a stupid question

like everyone does, but I think a lot of people look at you and your talent and everything, and you want to crammy, and you're collaborating with other amazing artists. For the people who think, how could Carly have this feeling or feeling like she's not good enough?

Like what where does that come from and how do you deal with it? I'm pretty shy in my normal life. Like I would be fine to walk into the party and just stand at the wall and it's not like I'm waiting for somebody to talk to me. I'm just okay being back there. I'm not really good at like that kind of a hustle. So it's funny like at award shows, I mean I remember being female vocalist of the year and being afraid to get up during the commercial breaks and like talk to my peers like that kind of a hustle. So it's funny, like at award shows, I mean, I remember being female vocalist of the year and being afraid to get up during the commercial breaks and like talk to my peers because I felt like I wasn't one of them.

And I think I spent so many years working and trying and hearing no and hearing no, you should move home or you're not good enough or your songs aren't good enough that it started to just infiltrate into me to where I have to check myself sometimes and be like, you have a seat at this table. Like don't, you know, there's a fine line for me of like being humble, but also not having imposter syndrome.

It's like, I always want to be humble. I don't want to ever feel like I deserve this. You don't want to feel like you deserve it? Well, I don't want to, I guess I definitely deserve it. Ode it, yeah. I don't want to have like an air about me where I'm like, absolutely. I always want to still keep that fire of working

that I think it gets blurred with like, do I belong here? I do belong here, right? And I think it's just that child in me that's like, are we sure? Did it really happen for me? I think it happened for me. I see the awards.

Okay. It's just, I kind of like that. I'm still feel a little bit out of place. It's always as fascinating when you see artists like you who have, I mean, you want a Grammy. I know. That is the kind of the music award. You always think, oh, once I do this,

and once I accomplish this, I'll no longer question myself. And that's just not true. It's like, and then you want the next thing, or then you turn here and you go, oh, and I think that's the achiever in me as well, which I think is why I'm successful. But it's also like, you know, I think in my healthy moments,

it's like, damn right I want a Grammy. Like I write good music and it's like, I know that, but I think I just don't need to have the big all eyes on me in every room thing. Do you appreciate probably how inspiring you've been to people in general but specifically women you know especially the 29 and getting divorced we talk to all types of people and it obviously is a thing you know turning 30

you know as a woman, biological clock, society's judgments and things like that but like you you gave so much courage I'm assuming so many women whether they were married or just stuck in these relationships that weren't serving them, that probably thought for so long, well, I can't end this because I've been in this relationship for this long, I'm turning 30, I'm about to turn 30, and people truly have just stayed in unhealthy

and unproductive relationships, and just your ability to get past your fears and do what you did gave so many people so much inspiration because it is so hard to feel like you're starting over later in life, even though 29 is really young, but we just don't feel that when we are 29. But yeah, do you realize just how probably big of a deal

that it's been for people? So much so that I feel like, yes, it was my purpose as a kid to sing. Like, I feel like it was my God given talent, but I feel like this was actually my purpose. Like I was meant to be able to have this platform to go through this experience, to be able to articulate exactly how you feel when you feel like your whole world's upside down, to then be able to help people. And I mean, I don't wish my story on anybody. If I had a book as a kid and it's like, you can have this, this, this, and this,

I would not have picked this. I wouldn't have. I didn't ask for a story that was this big. But because of this story, the whole reason we're on this earth in my opinion is to make a difference in whatever way that is, big or small, and to be able to night after night, every single day in my DMs or to my face

or at a show or on interviews, somebody feels vulnerable enough to tell me, I got out of this because of this, you made me feel like I wasn't alone. And like, if that is my sole purpose on this earth, that's totally good with me. You have a brilliant way, I think, of encapsulating niche feelings in relationships.

I think like what he didn't do, I remember my parents divorced when I was three, and I remember having a conversation with my dad a few years ago, and he was like, I still don't, I don't know why she wanted the divorce. He's like, I didn't drink, I didn't hit her, I wasn't abusive, I wasn't this. And he talked to my mom and He's like, I didn't drink, I didn't hit her. I didn't, you know, I wasn't abusive.

I wasn't this. And he talked to my mom and she's like, but he wasn't around, you know, he wasn't a husband. We weren't team. He didn't help me with anything. And so I think, and I showed her that song and she was like, no, this, thank you. She's like, I've always tried to figure out

how to put it into words of like what happened. She's like, and this is exactly it. I think you're just so talented in that realm. And like, I think a lot of people struggle to find those words. And then it's like, you come out and you're like, oh, there you go, there you go. Yeah.

That's awesome. Yeah, it's really great. What have you learned about yourself in terms of like, how do you enjoy being loved the most? Like what makes you feel the most loved in a relationship? I need affirmation for sure, but I've always been like that. I think I'm a words of affirmation person. I think if somebody's just proud of like not intimidated, intimidation is you're a successful woman. It's like, oh, I want to be celebrated for that. I don't-

Do you feel like you've had to compete with past partners? Mm-hmm. Or them like putting down your successes because they're not in that space at that moment, but then wanting you to celebrate them when things go well for them. Totally, totally. I think just feeling like somebody is attracted

to the things that I've built in my life because it takes a lot and just being able to see you through that and not being intimidated by that. Like looking at you with a sense of pride, where you feel that pride, yeah. Yeah, not looking at it as, you know? Yeah. Do you think you've ever had that in relationships or do you think that's something that you're still searching for?

Still searching for. It's interesting because I have a big life, but what I desire is very simple. I don't need you to match my grandiose life, but I need you to support it. And I think that's just important to me. I mean, as someone who is out there in the dating space, what do you think is the biggest challenge that people in general are facing? Or maybe from a woman's point of view, what are behaviors you're seeing in men

that you don't understand or wish they would work on or change? How do you perceive the landscape of, you know, all the people who are not married, who seek out marriage? What is something that you're, you're frustrated with in the dating space? Interesting. Um, I mean, I guess I'm kind of a hard one to ask, but I know for me, like being somebody who's not married in their 30s, I think the stigma that, oh, there's something wrong with you

because you're single or not married at 34, 35, 36 on both sides. That's not true. Some people just maybe haven't met the right person. And I think that is a stigma that is so wrong. Especially like you said earlier, it's like a lot of people now are more career driven in the beginning and then they decide

that they wanna settle down or whatever. I've built a lot for myself and now it's like, oh, I really wanna focus on that piece of it. That doesn't mean I'm damaged or, and I feel like that's just like a stigma that, oh. Yeah, or we just picked the wrong people. Or you've picked not the right people for you. Because like we thought we had to jump in a relationship

when we were younger and we were supposed to settle down. It's ironic, because you're divorced, I'm not. But the only difference between you and me, when I look at handful of my relationships, is that I was prepared to move forward in a couple of those relationships. And had things played out differently, I could have been married and divorced

to more than one of those people. And so my not being married and divorced, sometimes I look at it as just pure fucking luck, rather than someone like yourself who almost was unlucky in that, you talk about the night before your wedding, and I'm sure you probably revisit that thought of, what if I would have trusted my gut that night,

yada, yada, yada. But again, it's just a matter of luck sometimes. You know what else I think have like trusted my gut that night, yada, yada, yada. But again, like it's just a matter of luck sometimes. You know what else I think is like so funny? On one hand, like, yes, all of that. It's like, oh my God, why did you take this from me? And then I think about when I get married again. There you go. And I understand I'm in a different position

because I wear pretty dresses every day. People look at me like, I understand that some girls like this is their moment to get their makeup done, to have the party, to have like it be about them. I want none of that because for me, I had the dress, I had all the things and I watched how quickly with like one piece of paper it all ended. And it's like, okay, what about that was real love?

I want to literally do it the complete opposite because while I've been married, I've never had the love that marriage is all about to where it's like, I wanna go in a field or at a courthouse and do it because it's not about the show. And I think that's what I've learned more than anything is like, I really haven't ever been married

if I really think about it. And like that, you know, it's like, yeah, I wore the ring and then I sold it and life went on and I changed my name back and. I relate to how you did not marriage, but I honestly feel like Natalie was the first person I've ever been engaged to. It's like she is the first person

to ever plan to wedding with. You know, like I had, I had been engaged more than once before Natalie, but I never felt like I was. Like the first time I was in my twenties and as soon as we got engaged, I was like, this is not right. And then the second time, TV. That's a whole other, you know?

But it was just more like, for a guy who has to walk around and tell people he was engaged twice, I've never known what it feels like to actually be engaged. So like, I completely relate to that feeling. Yeah, to where I'm now just like, in some ways it feels like a distant memory and it's funny to have to be, I mean, even when I go into the doctor's office and it's like single, married, divorced,

I'm like, I'm not writing divorce because that's so stupid. It doesn't define you. Why do you need to know the divorce? None of your fucking business. Yeah, I'm like, uh, no. I'm like, single, assholes. Yeah.

But yeah, it's like, it is a part of me. And obviously, like, if I'm getting into a new relationship, it's like, well, you know, and they know. But it's like, that's not, it wasn't, it just wasn't the big thing to where it's like, I know that it'll feel completely different and probably very much like the first time. For sure. Yeah, it will. Hummingbird.

Yes. It's so good. Thank Yes. It's so good. Thank you. It's so good. How long have you been working on that? Hummingbird, I took a really long time after 29. 29 was like this unexpected, I was writing it in real time.

I didn't know if my team was gonna let me release it. Then it becomes this huge success. And then I realized after the album, I was like, okay, I'm like out here proclaiming like, girls, you need to know your worth and not do it. And then I was like, wait a second, I haven't healed at all, I need to go away. And I kind of didn't know what I was after that situation.

For a minute, it defined me for sure. And so I took a lot of time, I went to therapy, I kind of just gave myself the creative space to figure out what came next. And I think what I realized is, hummingbirds are the first sign that the healing process can begin and that good luck is on the way.

A lot of people say that when they see one. And I wrote that song not knowing that, but it kind of just encapsulated like the last few years of my life. And like, yes, it took me a little longer to write an album because I wanted it to be authentic. I didn't want to just put out songs and be like, yeah, I'm healing, I'm good.

And you know, it's funny, people are like, wow, there's not still a lot of love songs on this record. And it's like, well, would you really believe me if all of a sudden I was like, and now we're happy and we're healed and we're great. I think everybody's on a journey. And what this album represents for me is there's so much light if If you look at my album

artwork and you look at just the imagery and that was intentional and I've turned the page on my life, but it doesn't mean that I'm completely in the clear of all, you know, feelings. And I think I'm really proud of this record because in a lot of ways I'm now able to attach humor to some of the things that have happened in my life. And I'm able to kind of come from a bigger place of confidence, even if it's still heartbreaking. And it's for anybody that's on a journey that is on the other side and you're still figuring it out and it's okay to not have it all figured out.

But you made it. I think Truck on Fire is it. That is like Dixie Chicks, like old country fun song. It's giving like goodbye Earl in a way, you know? Like, no, it's so good. It's giving like, goodbye Earl, in a way, you know? Like, no, it's so good. It's so catchy. Did you write that by yourself? No, Charles Kelly from Lady A.

He and Justin Ebach, they, I think Charles has just been, you know, in a band with Hillary Scott for so long. He understands the mind of a woman kind of, and we've become buddies. And he was like, Hey, we have this idea. I really want you to write it with me. And I remember being in a car on my way to Whole Foods in a random city. And I was like, Oh my God, I have to write that. Because it just felt like how has nobody ever written liar, liar, pants on fire. Yeah, that sentiment. And we

wrote it super fast. And I just was ready to give something fun. It's so fun. And it's just like everybody wants to be crazy. Yeah, light a car on fire. Yeah. I'm like, hope I get to do it in the video. Yes, oh my God. We have someone looking for some advice.

Oh God. Are you ready? I feel like you're gonna be very good. I'm so ready. Especially someone who is good at seeking out pain. I can relate to that. I bet you are someone who often, your friends go to for advice.

Oh, for sure. And then their favorite thing to say to me is, you're so good at saying these things. Like if I was going through what you are, you would not tolerate it. It's like, I know I tolerate way more than I tell you you should. But I'm amazing at giving you advice.

Because we also have egos. I can totally tell you. I'm not gonna take it. advice. We also have egos. I can totally take it. But I'm like, I can totally tell you what you need to do. But I don't know about myself. Yeah, of course. Well, let's let's bring up our caller and help help a friend out. I'd say I'm a pretty patient person, but something I can't stand is technical issues. My whole team knows that this has absolutely changed the game for me.

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Oh my God. Brother-in-law, so your husband's brother? Yes, yeah, my husband's brother and his wife, so my sister-in-law, is my best friend. So it's so tough. Oh. Oh no. Okay, does your husband know? Yes, we're the only two who know at all. And the crazy thing is,

so my brother-in-law doesn't know that we know. Okay. How do you know? That was my question. Yeah, so if you want, I'll give a little bit of a backstory and kind of like tie it all together. We need it. Please. Yeah. Please. So some backstory, my brother-in-law and my sister-in-law, they've been together since high

school. So it's just over 15 years, kind of all each other's ever really known. They were each other's firsts for everything and kind of their lasts, which is kind of cute, but I think part of the problem. So as they've grown, my brother-in-law realized does not want to be a husband or have kids. And that's what my sister-in-law really, really wanted. That was her goal in life. So when they were at the eight year mark, my sister-in-law said, well, this is kind of what I want. So what's going on here? And my brother-in-law said, well, I'm not about to lose you. So I guess we're getting married and having kids. So here they are now they've been together married for about four years and they do have one two year old and another on the way. So yeah, so yeah, originally you didn't want kids, but yeah, now they here they are. So he is

the type of guy who he'll work Monday to Friday, eight to five. He'll cook dinner, which is great. Yay for doing the bare minimum. But after that, he kind of fucks off to the basement to play video games or he'll go out with the boys and leaves mom to clean up and put baby to bed. And she is all by herself doing laundry, dishes, cleaning the house, because he could just care less. And part of it, yes, she has conditioned his behaviors that way because I don't think she enforced

enough boundaries early on. So I think he should just accept it that he can get away with anything. But yeah, so another thing he does, which really bothers me is my sister-in-law does a lot of shift work. So if she works on 11 p.m. to 7 a.m. and is sleeping the next day, he will call his parents who live half an hour away to drive to his house to pick up his son, to take him back to their house to watch him for the day so he can go fishing or golfing. Does he have a job?

He has a job. Honestly, he's like the Chandler Bing of our family. I have no idea what he does. I just know he works from home and I know that he does okay financially, but like he can work in a sweat house. I think it's something in HR, which is so surprising because he is not a good people person in my opinion, but he's a really good actor.

Like if you met him, you'd probably think he's very charismatic, but. Give him an Oscar. Isn't it always the. What does your husband think about all this? Cause it is his brother. He is devastated. So my husband is polar opposite of his brother.

Like I got so lucky with my husband. He is kind. So my husband is polar opposite of his brother. Like I, I got so lucky with my husband. He is kind, generous, just a phenomenal person, thinks about others. Like he's the best father to our daughter that I'm wearing right now. And his brother is just so different, like does not care about anybody. And we tolerated it for a while, right? We're like, you know, hey, we don't know what they're like when they're alone. You know, he could be a softie, whatever. So we supported it, you know, I was always like, as long as we're happy, whatever. But then when he found out he was devastated, because that goes against everything that they were raised to do. But they do have different dads. So my husband's dad is just salt of the earth, the most amazing person you'll ever meet, where

my brother-in-law's dad is exactly like my brother-in-law. So I think, and he didn't seem very often growing up, so I think he did develop some daddy issues growing up with that. So. Yeah. How did you find out about the infidelity? Yeah. So what happened was actually my sister-in-law had texted me she was pregnant. We were so excited because as much as I don't like my brother-in-law, she is an incredible mom. I was so excited for her, but two days later she actually called me in tears and she never calls me and I knew something was wrong. As she says, can I come over? And I said, of course. So she came over and she said, you know, it's my husband. He is not okay. Like we're not okay. And I said, oh

my God, is he upset about the baby? And she said, no, it's something else. So what happened was that morning he actually took their son to daycare and left his phone on the counter. They don't really ever go through to their phones, like, but it was going off and buzzing and buzzing and buzzing. And she thought maybe it's something work related, maybe it's something family related. And she just looked and saw notifications from an app. I've never heard of this app. It's called whisper. I don't know if you guys have ever heard of it. It's, I guess, where you can. found dangerous, right? Super, super sketchy. And so she opened it to find multiple conversations of just inappropriate texts back and forth with women, pictures,

videos, actually went so far as to go out with another person for coffee. And then he actually goes away for work sometimes. So he went away for a week and had, I don't know how, but made a post or something that he had an empty bed for a week if anybody was looking for a good time, which is just disgusting. Cause I even said to my sister-in-law, I'm like, I have to try not to laugh

because I think he's not an attractive person outside and inside. And she is beautiful. And it's just, it was, it's disgusting. And I felt so bad for her. So now she was like, well, I don't know what to do and I said well I know what I should say but I'm not in your shoes so it's easier said than done to leave a marriage like so the advice I initially gave her was why don't you guys take a

week apart why doesn't he stay with a friend you guys just calmly think about what you really want in life come back together and have a conversation that's mature and not so heated and emotionally driven in the moment. And I said, and if you guys wanna work it out, okay, cool, I'll support you, but go to therapy. Like I think anybody could benefit from therapy. So she brought those things to him and he said no to both. He's like, no, I'm not leaving.

This is my house, I'm staying. And no, I'm not going to therapy. I think therapy is stupid. So they're still together. So she knows about all this. Oh, she knows all about it. Okay. So it's just like, no one else knows,

the extended family and people like that. Are you and your husband debating that? Yeah. So, I mean, originally we're like, wait, well, we won't say anything, but he's so disrespectful to his family and he's so disrespectful to her in front of his family and his kid.

And it's getting to the point where we're like, okay, we can bite our tongues because it's not our place to say anything. But now it really is just seeing how he treats her, seeing how he treats everybody else. And I'm the type of person where I do like to stand up for people and it's getting really difficult to sit back and just watch her timidly not do anything and even just if I I could say this one little thing like just so you know, I know all of her secrets like I won't whisper about it to anybody But just so you know kind of just that little thing to kind of get him to just not get off

I saw what you did there You know, but What does she want right now? She wants to leave. Oh, she does want to leave. She wants to leave, but she's so scared that he is going to take, you know, hurt their son. And I said, I think he'd be happy to be rid of it, to be honest with you. I think he'd love like a weekend visit every so often. So she's so scared about that. And she's scared because it's all she's ever known is them being together.

She's scared she'll never find somebody. She's scared. I mean, it's really difficult to live, you know, nowadays with one income and she's so scared that she's not going to be able to support herself, but she, she wants to go. She's so unhappy and he treats her poorly. Like she runs herself sick, you know, taking care of a toddler as well as just maintaining a house and she's currently pregnant and she's not taking care of herself the way she needs to. I think you should ask your sister-in-law. So she's got all these fears. Can I do it on my own with one income? I'm comfortable. This is all I've ever known.

Will I ever find somebody? Will they accept my kids like their own? All these different things. Are those fears worth what she's putting up with now? And I bet if she was honest with herself, the unknown is better than the current. And I would tell you to blow it up because your friend sounds like she's timid and she's almost like you said conditioned to the behavior to where she almost might think in some twisted weird way, I understand, that it's normal, it's not normal. And she will thank you for that one day when she's out of it because she deserves so much more.

That is not even baseline treatment for a marriage. That is abuse. Bye, see you later, I'll call him. I'll call him. I agree, and the thing is like, she won't stand up for herself and she's so beautiful and she's an amazing mom, but he's just worn her down and she thinks she can never do better. And it's so not true, it's so not true at all.

And it's so hard, I'm like, how do I help her when she can't? It's like it goes in when you're out the other, you know? Well, I can only imagine she again is operating from a place of fear. I mean, I couldn't imagine being in her shoes, you know, to have a young child to be pregnant. So there's a lot of justifiable reasons why she is terrified of making any decision

and thinking, well, I've survived this. I guess I can keep surviving this because I don't know if I could, like what the unknown probably sounds really scary for her. The good news is, is that you and your husband, like have her back, and it sounds like your husband is just as aligned with you about his brother's behavior, and is just as supportive of her.

So, like the biggest thing right now, I would make sure that she knows that you two are there for her and how disgusting you think his behavior is. And it's like, again, it's one thing, the stepping out, the apps and the cheating, that's one thing. It's a whole nother level of disgusting

for him to not take accountability, to not even feel shame about what he's doing. And kind of to Carly's point, like, you know, it is a bit abusive to like say like you have to, you are stuck with this situation, you're stuck with me and I refuse to change or do anything about it. And like putting the ball in her court. So I'm all for blowing it up, but right now I would wanna,

first I would wanna make sure that she feels taken care of and that she feels like she knows she has you. And I would do everything in your power. And I think your husband can play a huge role because it is his brother to keep helping her see the light, you know, keep helping her believe there's something better for you. And like the near future might seem a little scary, but we will always be here, especially your husband again, because it's his brother for your brother to go to your sister-in-law and say, I'm so disappointed in my brother. I think you should leave him and you will always be family to us and we'll always have

your back and we'll be by your side and we'll be there right through your delivery and everything else and we will get through this together. That's what I want for you two in the near future. Knowing that you can always shame this guy and you can always let the world know how big of a piece of shit he is, I just wanna make sure that she is aligned with YouTube. The only thing you wanna be careful not to do is because she's so scared right now,

that you don't want to embarrass him, and that subsequently she feels embarrassed, and then she feels isolated like she has no one else and forcing her to turn to him, you know, because it almost feels like an us against the world type of mentality. So I would just want to make sure that the three of you, you and your husband and her feel like you guys

are the new team and while she has no one else, you guys will be there through this whole pregnancy and help her through to get the divorce. And if she's open to a divorce, have her start talking to lawyers, get ahead of it, have those conversations that she probably doesn't even want to consider having now, but get her ducks lined up, have her understand what her rights are, understand what like in terms of like custody and things like that she needs to get it. If he's going to be this kind of like stubborn asshole, this is my house, take advantage of that

and let his kind of like stubbornness and ignorance like play against him while she is busy getting her ducks in a row, getting all the information lined up so that when she decides to pull the trigger, he's like, what the fuck's going on? How far along is she? She's 14 weeks, so still early.

Okay, yeah, yeah. I guess I would just say for her to do that as soon as possible, because once those, I mean, you know, once those hormones kick in, it's like you're off the wall, you don't know how you actually feel. And so I think for her to do it as soon as possible where she knows that this is how she feels

and this is true to herself, then I think now is the time. Yeah, I mean, you don't want her to be stressed. Obviously, she's going to be. And so I think this is an amazing opportunity for you and your husband to really, your sister-in-law really is in need. She really is, must feel so alone.

And you have an opportunity to make her feel like you saved her life, truly. And I think if you guys just let her know that no matter what, you guys have her back and you will be there. And I know it's not what she planned for herself or what she hoped for herself, but you're gonna help her get through this next year,

year and a half. And when she gets things settled, like you said, she's young, she's beautiful, she has so much in front of her, but she just has to find the courage to do what she needs to do. And I think you and your husband will play a huge role in giving her that confidence.

How old is she? She's 32. She's 32. Yeah. So I can speak from experience. I left a marriage that wasn't serving me when I was 29. So many of the things that you said were so poking on all the insecurities and just that fragile state and tell her that you talk to someone who says like, it's so scary at first, unknown

is so scary, but she will be so much happier on the other side. Absolutely. Yeah. It's just it's just crazy. Yeah, I just I feel so bad. And I feel even guilty sometimes I said to my husband because we have a very good marriage. I believe so. And I feel guilty sometimes talking about our marriage or, you know, coming home and my husband has the dishes and the laundry done, which is, I think, just the partnership that we have. And she's like, oh my God,

that must be the nicest thing in the world. I'm like, I think it's just us doing the bare minimum as husband and wife together. So it's so sad that she doesn't know that feeling. So yeah, we definitely will do that. I'll have a conversation with her. I see her later this week, so. What if you offer her to move in with you guys

or something like that? Might be super inconvenient in the short run, but I'd love for her to experience what you two experience. She needs almost a good example or a role model. She needs to see what else is possible. And if you're looking to embarrass him, people will find out.

People like when you guys take her in and take care of her and people start wondering like why he's doing what he's doing, like that's what I'm saying. I'd rather have your energy go to focus on what she needs. The revenge part, you know, making him pay for, like that'll work itself out, I have no doubt. But channel your energy and making sure she's protected and she's taken care of because we want,

she's pregnant, we need to take care of her, we need to make her believe in herself and her future. And I think, again, you and your husband can play such a big role in that, especially your husband. Yeah, no, I never even thought about that, to be honest. I thought about just me, but I think you're right, having my husband's input and saying, you know, this is my family, but you will always be loved

and well, protected. I think that's huge. I think it'll go a long way. Yeah, I mean, I'd love to take her and we just have a small little two bedroom place, but I mean, if there's anything else that I can possibly do, I definitely will. And I see her later, so I mean, I'll definitely else that I can possibly do I definitely will and I see her later

So I mean I'll definitely let her know that you know We're there for her We love her and my husband supporting her and maybe just when she's around Have him have a conversation with her and I think that would go a long way, too Yeah, as long as she knows that she's not alone and you guys have her back I think she must feel so alone because again, you know, and what are people going to say? She doesn't want to tell people. It's her instinct to want to protect him even though, you know, it's just, and just having you guys there saying, no, this is not okay. You know,

we got your back. If you can't find the strength, we're always a phone call away, you know, be her cheerleader, be your support system. Her husband will look like the biggest fucking loser knowing that like his pregnant wife had to rely on his sister-in-law and her his brother to do his job. You know, I think the karma will run its course. No, I think you're super right. And since it's so fresh, I think I'm still emotionally charged because I'm just furious. I never liked him anyway. And this just adds to it. So I think you're right that it will play out. People will find out. He'll get what's coming to him. And yeah, I think you're right. Just be that support system for her. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, thank you for the call. Sorry that your sister-in-law is going through this, but I'm glad she has you too. And I think you guys will be a huge reason why she gets through this.

Awesome. Well, thank you for your time. It's nice to meet you all. All right. Thank you. Likewise. All right. Take care. Okay. Bye. Take care. Man, relationships. what a struggle. That was a lot. Yeah. It's also just like being pregnant and having to go, oh my God, I just can't.

But I do think it's so important because I feel like a lot of the times when we're in situations like that, we don't see the light through the tunnel where I'm just knowing that she has options that her people are willing to look into information for her, offer support. Like a lot of the times we think we can't go to other people,

especially our partners, siblings, asking for help because it's like, oh, that's your family, whatnot. But I'm like, no, she needs to know that there's options, that there is life past this and that this is not as good as it gets. Oh, it makes me so sad. I think she needs to start listening to some Carly Pierce. I literally wanted to be like,

tell her to go listen to 29, she'll be fine, she'll be good. Carly, you've been such a joy to talk to. Thank you. Thank you for being so open and vulnerable. Your music is wonderful, it's an inspiration. Congratulations on the world tour. Can't wait to see all the success that brings. Keep calling people out at your shows.

Hopefully you won't be forced to do that, but thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me. I'm such a fan. It's so fun. Likewise. Yeah. And then, you know, is, I don't know,

I'm sure people know, but do you want to like tell people where they can buy tickets or follow you or get your music? At Carly Pearce on all the things and carlypierce.com. Come see me on the Hummingbird tour. Go check it out.

I wanna go see you on the Hummingbird tour. Come on. Come on. We'll definitely come. Let's go. Well, the hummingbird tour. Come on. Come on. We'll definitely come. Let's go. Well, thank you again for Carly coming and joining us. Thank you for listening.

Go follow Carly, check us out. We'll see you back tomorrow. Bye.