The Viall Files - E803 - Going Deeper with Taylor Frankie Paul - Secret Lives of Mormon Wives

Episode Date: September 4, 2024

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper, with Taylor Frankie Paul! Hulu’s Secret Lives of Mormon Wives is releasing soon and boy is the drama wild! Taylor Frankie Paul joins us to talk OG Momtok drama, her Mormon upbringing, and the season’s scandals. Is Momtok still a thing? Where is she now? And, is she still with Dakota?  “I was a major villain in that story.” Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS Life360 - Visit https://www.Life360.com or download the app today and use code VIALL to get one month of the gold package for free, plus 15% off all Tiles. DraftKings - Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use code VIALL to get $250 in bonus bets when you bet just five bucks. AND get one month of NFL+ Premium on us! Tushy - For a limited time, our listeners get 10% off their first bidet order when you use code VIALL at checkout. That’s 10% off your first bidet order https://www.HelloTushy.com with promo code VIALL. Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @taylorfrankiepaul @justinkaphillips @dereklanerussell Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 04:25 - Where It Started 06:49 - Swinging 14:05 - Religion 20:11 - Marriage Ending 42:19 - Dakota 48:09 - Arrest 01:00:29 - The Show 01:14:52 - MomTok And Whitney 01:24:51 - How Do You Want People To See You 01:29:27 - Dakota Final Thoughts 01:31:00 - Outro

Hey moms, looking for some lighthearted guidance on this crazy journey we call parenting? Join me, Sabrina Kohlberg. And me, Andi Mitchell, for Pop Culture Moms. Where each week we talk about what we're watching. And examine our favorite pop culture moms up close to try to pick up some parenting hacks along the way. Come laugh, learn, and grow with us as we look for the best tips. And maybe a few what not to do's from our favorite fictional moms. From Good Morning America and ABC Audio,

pop culture moms, find it wherever you get your podcasts. You're crazy. You're crazy. Taylor, welcome to the Vile Falls. Thank you. And thank you for having me. Thank you for coming. Yeah. We often like to start these episodes with a heavy question.

I think it's appropriate for you. How's your heart? My heart? Yeah. How's your heart? That is heavy. It's like early. My heart right now is very full and overwhelmed.

Okay, full and overwhelmed. That seems appropriate given where you're at today. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot. Well, we have a lot to cover. Okay. We do appreciate you coming. I feel like this has been a long time coming. Yes, two years ago I talked to you.

Yeah, when Mom Talk blew up and I think the soft swinging scandal ripped across America, or the world maybe. Ripped across the world. Was it international news? Took the world by storm. Probably, when it was TikTok, it was ginormous. Oh yeah, cause in Europe, they always tell me,

they're like, we love your story in Europe. I'm like, thank you. Oh my god. Oh boy. Yeah, we DM'd briefly. Yeah. About getting you on the show. And then I'm curious actually what happened after that.

And then it didn't happen. I wasn't sure. You kind of disappeared. Yeah, I think everything happened so fast. I think we had a, was it a phone call we had maybe? I don't know. Do we have a phone call? We might've talked about having a phone call.

I think you remember saying I sounded sad. You're like, she sounds really sad. Did we talk on the phone? I think so. And I don't know how that even happened to be honest. Nick has a worse memory. Maybe we didn't or maybe I have a bad memory. No, I think we did talk on the phone and then yeah and it seemed like everything was too much like yeah I was like I had you know podcasts coming like okay this is cool but also like my life is falling apart and but I'm like I also have to survive right now so like. So could you bring us kind of up to speed on terms of obviously we have the new show coming out and when the show starts there's a bit of there's some time jumps. It opens up it's seemingly shortly after mom talk kind of came out on the scene shortly after Mom Talk kind of came out on the scene, shortly after the swinging scandal,

but right before your arrest. When did filming or the conversation around making this into a show start? And that kind of happened before the arrest? Like where's the timeline in terms of how this all came to be? I am kind of curious because it seems like it's been a long time coming. I think there's been a lot of speculation. I wasn't sure when we first reached out if

that was part of the reason why nothing really happened because it was like, hey we're actually filming a TV show. I remember seeing a TikTok of you and Dakota and it was like they're filming in some place like what are they filming? What's going on? Yeah. And that was a long time ago so yeah i'm curious too yeah so i think once everything hit i'm gonna say july 2022 i think you had reached out i talked to you before i had the offer so no i didn't know anything about that i think i talked to you and i was like am i gonna go on here it would have been a mess if i came on let's just just say, because I like was all over. I went on like, I think TMZ and it was a mess because I just didn't have my thoughts ready.

I was like surviving. So I felt like I ended up just like not, you know, coming on and talking about it. And then the show got presented, I think, shortly after that. And, you know, I was like, yeah, I would love to go on because I haven't had the time to like tell my story. I'm like anything, you know, you got a little piece of like what actually had happened.

So I was like, this will be the perfect opportunity to go on and tell my story. And of course, like it was like back and forth because they were trying to get the other girls involved. And of course, they didn't want to write like they were all they were like, if Taylor's doing it, we don't want to do it vice versa. Like it was a huge mess there. And then yeah, more a mom talk got the opportunity so they took it. So they were trying to get the green light of with like I think it was like Hulu right I don't know if they were trying to see who wanted to pick it up but Hulu did and so we got the green light kind of like a waiting game and then

I got arrested. So then it was like I think they put a stop to it like I don't I don't know if they wanted me on it at all so So we're going to do this without Taylor. So they did casting again. And then I think, I don't know, I can't speak for them, but I think they watched me after and see where I took my life. Was it for better or for worse? Sure.

And so they're like, I think let's add Taylor back on. Okay. So let's rewind a little bit. Okay. When you first came out on the scene and you were all of a sudden like, hey, I'm Taylor Finke-Paul, I'm a Mormon, I'm a swinger, life's crazy. What even prompted you to even start that chaos, so to speak? Okay. So we were obviously like in an open relationship with a group of friends.

And when you say we, you and your ex-husband? Yes. Okay. Yeah. And yeah, and my best friend, you know, so and some other people, but. When you say best friend, you mean also your ex-husband or there was another person? Yeah, my another person, like obviously the group. So I have my husband and then I have my best friend and then her husband and then like some other people. Are there names out there? Are they

public figures as well? Or are they, are they trying to avoid being brought up in this conversation? Because it does seem kind of unclear, right? Like who was actually involved in this? Yeah, it's like, is it the girls on the show with you? Because they all seem like kind of mad that you said this, but then it's like, was it even them? It is very confusing.

It is, it's a sticky situation because it's not like, it's my story of like what happened to me, but also people Involved and I feel like I owe them some sort of like privacy and respect But I'm also trying to give the story so on my part So it's really hard to like not like full on like I I mean people kind of know like if you really wanted to do Like my friends like it's it's out there and yes She is a public figure so it's not hard to put the finger on it. They've come out and podcasts have came out since the show was coming.

So they've spoken on it. Yes, but which to why, right? Why are they getting scared? Why are people scared? And it's like, you guys are just outing yourself still at this point. I am never gonna come clean and say names. That is up to them if they want.

And there's a podcast out now and different stories and it's just, it's messy there. Again, I can only tell my side, so I know that's why, and then the girls in the show, they were kind of like involved because I had said mom talk, someone from mom talks involved, so everyone was like, oh, everyone. So you're trying to figure out who it was

in the mom talk group. Are you still best friends with this girl? No, no, no, no, no, that ended. There's been a total falling out. That summer, yes. Because you outed everyone? So that one is more, it's actually, I don't think I've even gone more into detail about that.

So the day, so going back, I had an affair the night of one of, we were all drinking and I had an affair with one of the men that we were already intimate with. Okay, so let's back up even. How did the whole swinging stuff start? We were all drinking and I had an affair with one of the men that we were already intimate with. Okay. So let's back up even. How did the whole swinging stuff start? It wasn't even a conversation.

I think we were all drinking and partying and then the guys were like, you girls should make out. Make out. It's hot. I'm like, okay, it's hot. And so we make out and that's that. And I feel like I had done that in my younger years. It wasn't a big deal to me.

So I was like, okay. It's like college. Yeah. But we're all married Mormons with kids. And I feel like I had done that in my younger years. It wasn't a big deal to me, so I was like, okay. And then- It's like college. Yeah, but we're all married Mormons with kids, but yeah, same thing. Yeah, so we just did that. And then I think we did another, the guys were like, oh, that was awesome.

We were driving home. It was just like this weird, like whatever. Again, we threw another party and same thing. And then it was like, let's take off your clothes and do lingerie pictures together while making out. And it just escalated. Everyone was kind of turned on by, okay. How many couples are? At this point, two.

It was just me and another couple. It was just us and another couple. It's just a four-some. Yeah, so very, very, I just like escalates. And then we do this for a while with this couple, cabin parties, making out in the same bed, intercourse in the same bed next to each other, and the girls kissing and the husbands touching the other bed next to each other and the girl's kissing

and the husband's touching the otherwise. I don't know if you want details, but like it just like. We want details. Okay. It just starts to escalate or escalate and then there's another couple, we have parties and you can kind of gauge like, I don't know how you know, but you kind of can gauge who's, who would be down

and who wouldn't, you know. So there was another couple that we brought in probably a year later and he's like, yeah, we should get the another couple that we brought in, probably a year later, and he's like, yeah, we should get the girls to make out. Like he jokes, the husband. And so the husband, like the other guys are like, oh yeah, like this guy's probably down, right? And so they bring this couple in.

And so the couple's like, do you guys wanna have like a four or something? Like one of our second times hanging out. And we're like, whoa. And so this, me and my husband start to escalate with this couple because they're like more down and you can just yeah you could just tell like this one is like all on board where the other ones maybe like one's on board one's not yeah so i think i feel like things kind of went crazy there and then there was a point that to be you know i guess

if you want details we were at a cabin, I'm with this other man, completely naked, like we're about to go full force and then he's with the wife, he's about to go full force. Your ex-husband is this, okay. And I think he comes to this, he's like super drunk, he comes to like this realization of like. Your ex-husband or the other guy, okay. Yeah, my ex and he's like, we can't do this,

like what if one of you gets pregnant, we don't know like who's the dad, like, we can't do this. What if one of you gets pregnant? We don't know who's the dad. This is not okay. When you say that out loud, it gets weirder. Yeah, yeah. And so we're like, okay, yeah, yeah, you're right. I don't even know how we got to this point. So he says, let's cut back, let's maybe not do this.

And the other couple, the man of the other couple is like, yeah, let's not do this anymore with this couple because this man is getting jealous of this situation. So it gets really weird really fast and like, let's chill. And so my husband's like, okay, maybe we should stop doing it with our best friends, like our friends, and maybe we could do this with strangers.

Like I think he wanted to close the whole thing down because he's like, you can kind of see people are creating feelings at this point. Like friends, like you can tell people are like getting jealous, weird. And so he's like, let's, let's cut this out, you know? And so I'm like, okay, well it kind of sucks. Cause we're used to this party now. Like I'm like, this is fun. Like, why, like why?

And so I wasn't on board then. And so we were kind of on different pages the whole time. And then, yeah, I ended up catching feelings from one of the men in the group and one of the men caught feelings for me. So it was kind of like three out of the six caught feelings. And then I, yeah, I had the affair, I had an emotional affair. Like, I feel like we were all texting each other

weirdly anyways, like it was just a weird thing. Like everyone was. When this started, I mean, you describe it, I mean, maybe innocently is the wrong word, but you guys, the way you describe it is like, you describe it, I mean, maybe innocently is the wrong word, but you guys, the way you describe it is like, you know, inexperienced swingers in a way. Yes, we had no idea what was going on. And you were being very experimental.

Yes. And it seemed like, yeah, you almost like a bunch of young kind of inexperienced people who didn't do the thing that I think people who do participate in this lifestyle often do, which is set very clear and defined boundaries. And there seems to be people with, I guess,

at least some experience. I think there's the sex element of swinging and things like that, that it's the juicy stuff, the stuff, the details we wanna know type of thing. But there is, I think for the people who participate in this kind of untraditional lifestyle, for those who do it successfully, there are rules and there are boundaries and there are clear conversations

and I get the impression none of that was going on in your group. No, nope. I mean, the most we had a conversation with my husband was like let's just make sure we're not doing any of that like behind closed doors with anyone like no sneaking off like because these parties got you know pretty crazy you're drunk like you don't know where everyone is at all times and so it was like messy and so I think we like came to terms and I

that's where I went wrong. Was it like at some point at the at the height of these crazy parties were were individuals in relationships kind of like sneaking off to another room? Like almost like a high school college party where like people disappear and you're there in a room and they hook up? Or is this all in the same room together orgy style? I wanna call it the after hours of our parties.

So I would say they were at cabins and in my house. So we would have lots of people there, like lots of couples. I would say I, they were at cabins and then my house. So we would have lots of people there, like lots of couples. I would say that like to like drink, you know, everyone was flirty and whatever. And so they'd go home and then the main people would stay and it's kind of where things would escalate. So like one of the husbands was always spending the night at my house, like without his wife, she'd go home and he'd spend the night. Nothing really ever happened like without her, but like it was weird that he was staying the night in general, you know? My husband would be like, I don't know, he's here,

he would go in and check on me at night, because we had separate bedrooms, I don't know if you remember that. You and your ex-husband? Uh-huh, I talked about that a lot, I feel like, but more on podcasts and stuff and it was on the news, I don't know why, but anyways. CNN, yeah.

Mortarman slept in separate bedrooms, breaking news. No, the really sad thing, it was like, you can make a yeah. Separate bedrooms, breaking. No, the really sad thing it was like, you can make a marriage work with separate bedrooms and it was on the news and then my news came out after it was like, it was bad, it was a mess in itself in that one. That's another story. But so he'd come in and check on it, check on me. But yeah, it was the after hours. Like we would just get down like after everyone left and, and it would be in a

room or the living room of a cabin. We'd get blindfolds and place them in the bottle and everyone would make out with everyone. You get blindfolded, all the husbands would have to like, you know, kiss me and I have to guess and vice versa. And- Wow. It's very Love Island.

Very Love Island. Yes, lots of games. Yeah, very creative of y'all. Okay, so Love Island, that was the first time I ever saw it was a season. And I'm like, I was watching it, I was like, yeah, that is literally all the games I played at my house. It was pretty bad.

So where were your children while these swinging parties were happening? They were at, like my mom's. Your mom's? Okay. And you know, she came out and was like, I would have never babysat for you if I would have known that was going down. Like I would have never done that, you know, and have known that was going down. I would have never done that. Or they'd be upstairs with their white noise machine on.

With their white noise machine on. Yeah, I know, I know. It's really bad to admit, but it was that. And then, yeah, I think that's where the guilt still sticks. I think there's obviously going into this new season, I think there's always been a fascination with the Mormon religion. I come, I grew up very Catholic,

not the same as Mormon, but I'm very familiar with a very devout upbringing. And obviously a lot of the expectations, the shame around sex, the pressure of maintaining a certain lifestyle or at least the appearance of a lifestyle I think is very fascinating. I think that's why so many people are excited

and fascinated for this show. As you look back, what role did your upbringing in your religion, your faith, how you, you know, I don't know how devout you are today. How did that play a role in this all happening? The soft swinging or is that just kind of like, yeah, we happen to be Mormon, but like, honestly, this has nothing really to do with it. Well, I feel like I can't speak for like them, but I will say a lot of them, like their spouses

were like their first person they'd ever been with. So that being said, I feel like this was like such like you're saying like something you do in college. And so I feel like they didn't really experience that they I mean my ex drink you know partied for the first time at age 29 so it was like very new to them this was exciting and so I felt like for me I had partied like in my younger years so I like I experienced this but I think for them they didn't so it was like very like that's why it was so messy it was just so fast and we didn't know what we were doing really We were almost like kids, you know?

Like, acting like it. But religion, I guess that's the only part, is I feel like they were so devout as growing up. Like, a lot of them, that this was just like, you know, a can of worms open. And so it was like an experience. But for me, I feel like, yeah, religion didn't play a part in it, other than guilt of like, you know, this is wrong.

And I think maybe not even religion, you can kind of see like that's probably not right. But in our heads, it was right. It was okay because our spouses knew. We were on the same page. So I felt like it wasn't wrong. In the time I was like, this is fun. We're not doing anything wrong.

Like this is good. Like it's- I think Nick can relate to just the like feeling guilt of, I mean, like being so Catholic growing up and then like you like making out with a girl or something and you'd be like, wait, no, this is wrong. I'm not allowed to do this. Yeah, I know, there's definitely like anytime

when I was in high school, if I would mess around with someone, there's always like a shame hangover the next couple of days of like, I shouldn't have done that or all these things. Well, you're erased with it to fill that way. So how do you not? Yeah, it definitely fucks with you. And I think when it comes to the Mormon religion,

there's a lot of, it seems, or whether it's the Mormon religion, I guess, or any other kind of devout Christian faith-based life, there seems to be a lot of loopholes, it seems like, or stories you hear about Mormons. What's the very common one? Soaking. Soaking.

Oh gosh. No. No. I don't know if that's, I don't know, are you familiar with that? Yes. Okay, is that a thing? It's a thing.

It is a thing. It is over in Orham, or Orham, Utah, your favorite, you know? No, it's a thing. And for the people who don't know what that is? You want me to say, right? Or does Natalie want to? I can say. It's the guy just puts his penis inside of the woman

and doesn't move. And then you have a friend bounce? Is that real though? Does a friend actually jump on the bed to move? I don't know if that part's real. That seems crazy to me. Like you have to bring. And I'm not even bringing up to like do a master class on.

Soaking. Soaking. But it's more how much, that's a very specific one, but how much of that kind of stuff goes on in the Mormon faith with people? Are there a lot of like loopholes? People talk about like anal sex. Like are there conversations in the Mormon community where anal sex isn't losing your virginity?

Or oral sex? How does that work with people in your community? Yeah, I mean again, I don't wanna speak for them because they'll all come at me saying she doesn't speak for us. Just from your point of view. It happens. It happens and I feel like yes,

you're trying to find this like loophole of like, is it such a natural desire, you know, to want to have sex and whatnot, especially with someone you love, right? That's just like, but we're taught that don't do it until you're married. So it's like bad, bad, bad, you're married, good. And so I feel like for women, it is a little like, I've heard stories of where they felt very confused of like what they're supposed to do on their wedding night because it's so taboo to talk about it. It's uncomfortable.

A lot of people aren't. And so they're, and they're scared to go to their parents too, because it's super tight. It's, it's wrong. Right. And so, uh, I don't know for the loop, I was never like by the book. So a more devout Jen might be the one to ask how that is, or Whitney, she's a return missionary. I was a little against the rules all the time too,

and I would wake up feeling guilt. And even for a cup of coffee, that one I had to let go, because I would drink coffee and I'd feel this guilt, because you're not supposed to. And so when you're saying you'd wake up with that hangover of guilt, it's very real and true. In that sense though, I feel like I was more

on the wilder side with like, you know, I still did all of that, you know, even though I wasn't supposed to. And so the other girls might be better for that. Gotcha. But so from your standpoint, you're basically saying the soft swinging phase of your life was more just Taylor being the wild child,

but maybe for the other participants, there might have been some religious, rebellious elements to it. Yeah, for sure. And I had been, I feel like a really good, still a good girl too for like six years of my marriage. Like I didn't drink, I didn't do anything crazy. Like I was very like, I feel like a good wife and partner.

And I feel like also I did have a wild side. So when that opened, I was like, let's go. Like, you know, like it was just like almost like. You felt like it was almost Pandora's box. Yes, yes. I don't know if that's good to admit, but yeah. Like it just felt like, I don't know. I've been so good.

It felt freeing. I don't know. Is that the right word? That's not, yeah, that's not a bad thing yeah let's talk about your arrest I feel because I feel like before we get to the arrest why did your marriage end um yeah I think one the affair but I think more than all we were obviously I think struggling already and it was done before it was done and so I think we kind of came to the conclusion

of like it's best that we part ways. You know, we said we'll give it the summer and see where things go. But I think we kind of knew deep down it's like done. Was that after the affair came out or before? Before for me, I asked for separation, I think twice before. Okay.

So I was like at least trying to get clarity of like, do I want this? Do I need, it was more like I needed like some, some space to think about everything and then I think everything escalated so fast. And I think the night of, um, everything, that story I haven't really told either. I don't know if you want me to tell, but like basically. One of the husbands came up to me in the group and, and came and told me he had feelings for me at the gym.

And so nothing was like over text or anything. So I didn't like have any proof, but I came home and told my husband, I was like, your best friend just told me he had feelings for me at the gym. And so nothing was like over text or anything. So I didn't like have any proof, but I came home and told my husband, I was like, your best friend just told me he had feelings for me. So I just wanted to let you know. In my head, I'm like, okay, we're messing with fire. Like he's like, okay, yeah, we opened those doors. Like I'm not happy he told you that

because he was expecting something in return. So like, I felt like he went behind my back, but also we've put ourselves in the situation. Like he kind of knew. And me and my head already know what was going on. Like I had feelings for this other man. So it was like really messy. So the wife, it gets out that he tells me that

because I tell the wife of this other couple. She goes and tells people, it gets out. So you told your ex-husband, then you also told a friend of yours. Yeah, the friend group kind of. And then, yeah, I did tell the friend group. And then the wifey over here calls and says, hey, I heard this. Like you have something to tell me. I just curious what it was. And this is my best friend So I'm like I knew the second because I debated to tell her I'm like, okay

If I tell her I lose my best friend forever and but I don't have feelings for him So I feel like I don't know what to do. But if I don't tell her I'm a bad friend So like I'm sitting in the middle here. I go not telling her, and then she's like, do you have something to tell me? I heard this, and so I deny it. Her husband's calling me on the other phone. Deny, deny, deny. And I'm like, I think we should just come clean.

We've all messed up, let's come clean. This is really heavy, I can't do this. I'm having panic attacks at this point. And at this point, there's another man that you've been hooking up with outside of the- I mean, I kissed him, yeah. I wasn't sleeping with him. She said it was an emotional.

Yeah, but then I did sleep with him the one night. Gotcha. But there was another, okay. Yeah, yeah. So the husband's calling me, didn't I, didn't I? I'm feeling like shit, because I'm like, this is a shitty person. I'm a shitty person right now.

And I tell my husband and he's like, I think you just need to tell her. Like I ended up denying it. And I, we go to, she's like, just come over to my house. We all go to their house at night. I get there and I'm taking shots because I'm miserable. Like I'm a horrible person. I like blackout, I think within the first 10 minutes there.

And then I call my friend or I was in the corner and the husband of who I was having friend or I was in the corner and the husband of Who I was having the affair with comes in the corner and then the other husband that gets jealous comes and he's like They're like talking really weird in the corner back there like something's going on. So my husband comes over He's like what's going on like so this is like where it's like blowing up I'm like, I just got to go like I so I call a friend to come pick me up I go to my friend's house. I'm at my friend's house. You have the guy that I'm having the affair with call me Can I come pick you up? You have the other husband? Can I come pick you up my husband? Where are you?

Like everyone's calling me. I'm belligerent like I'm like drunk, but I'm like still like I think I ignore everyone But I told him where I am and then the guy was having an affair with his like Can I come pick you up and his wife sends him to come pick me up? And you know about that no no But they were all they wanted me to come spend the night with them. Like you see, it's just weird. Like the whole thing's weird and so. Just out of control.

Yes, yes. And so the guy I had an affair with comes over, I hook up with him at that house and then. That night. That night. And I don't remember much of it. And I won't say like, I don't want to call it anything, but I just don't remember much of it.

I was pretty blacked out. And I've never claimed anything. I know people are like, well, you just like sexual assault. And I'm like, no, like I full on believe that I wanted that. So I like never have claimed that. So, but I cannot say like what had happened in that room. I do not always slept with him. I woke up very messed up down there.

And so that was really, really bad. Like, oh, that was so hard. Sorry. Like, oh, that was so hard, sorry. Like, no, like that must be really hard. I mean, was he also drunk or was he sober? I don't know. I can't say, I don't know. Okay. But yeah, my husband came and picked me up.

I denied like everything that night. And he's like, I actually didn't even ask me. He took me home and he took care of me. Oh, sorry. It's okay. And then. Take a deep breath, okay. I don't wanna cry, sorry. There's a tissue right next to you.

He came and he asked me, he's like, did you do anything last night with him? And I was like, no. And of course the husband's like, deny. The other husband's like, deny, deny. And I'm like, okay. I'm like so lost. And I ended up coming clean that day, that I did.

And they're like, he came clean. So I'm like, yeah, we did. Like I just wanted to come clean. And it was like the worst day because I hurt him. That's, yeah. That's where I'm like still, I don't think I'm like healed from that. Yeah, like I just like, that's so shitty to do to someone.

Oh, and lying about it. Do you feel like you were lying to protect your marriage or to protect the guy you were having the affair with or to protect your best friend? I think to not admit anything. I just think I was hiding it because I'm like, at that point I knew if I'd say something, everything blows up, this is done.

My life with this is over with my husband. So I figured, yeah, he's gonna, you know, leave me, which is fine. I guess this way is what's shitty, you know? Right. And yes, my friend. And so everything blew up that day. He found out, you know, he's freaking out.

And it was very unexpected, I think for him, like, because I think he might have engaged it maybe with the other husband, but not this one. So I think it blind was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. This was his best friend? Both of his really close friends. Yeah. And I told the truth.

I had my mom come over. She's like, what's going on here? I told her everything. Like what I just did. My friend, I told her she was gonna stand by my side, my best friend. And then like, she was like, no matter what you've done, like I'm here for you.

But then my husband, my ex, goes and tells them, by the way, your husband told her she had feelings for you and she didn't tell you. So then of course she's like, yeah, Taylor's lying. He never said that. They're in denial. And I'm like, okay, that doesn't do anything for me to make up that lie.

Yeah, that's a shitty position you were in. I lost everyone in that day, so. I mean, the whole thing's obviously a mess, but some other person telling you they have feelings for you is not your fault. Obviously, you were trying to protect, I guess, probably everyone in that moment, so then you tell your best friend a lie.

Well, I knew I lost her if I told her that, you know? Why would you have lost her if her husband said, I had feelings for you? Well, I don't know. That's just like ultimate women hating women. Yeah. When, you know, like that's from a woman's standpoint, it's like my-

She would have blamed you for it? Well, not only that, but you would want to never hang out with me again, right? Yeah, you wouldn't like trust your husband. Your husband with your, you know? It would definitely ruin the friendship, I can. For sure. And not only that, yeah, it was just a mess

and he denied it, of course, and said he never said it. And I'm like, I don't care if you don't believe me, that's fine, I don't care. That does nothing for me, that makes me look worse of a person. Why would I make that up, that lie, that doesn't do anything for me? But yeah, and then that happened

and I lost everyone that day. Have you talked to your best friend since, the one that was married to the man you had the affair with? Yeah, so she wasn't my best friend. So I'd only known them for two months. Oh, okay. So yeah, I wanna clear that up. Great clarification, great clarification.

Yeah, I would say I'm a girl's girl. I know that doesn't sound like good, but I barely knew them. They were very instigating the situation too. So it was like in my head, like she instigated a lot as well and I didn't know her that well. And this is my best friend.

Like I've never done that, never in a million years. What sounds like as soon as he told you, you were uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah. Oh, he knew. So he knew what it meant when he told you. Yeah, he was uncomfortable. Who? The man, yeah, when he told you yeah, he was uncomfortable who the man

Yeah, when you when he told me he was very like you could tell he's like nervous and and he had sent texts Which I had like I have to tell you secret and I was like, what's the secret? We don't have secrets and he's like I can't tell you like it's very like it's secret Like I and I had all those texts and I was like if I need to send them like I will like to your you know wife, but she saw them I think and. And it was just like never enough. And so I was like, that's you. And at the time other things were coming out about him. So I was like, that's you to deal with, not me anymore.

So what made you bring all this drama to TikTok? Okay, yeah. Okay, so the couple over here, my best friend and her husband, they call another part of the friend group and was like, Taylor had an affair, bye. No details of anything. And so it hits the internet.

People are like, Taylor cheated, Taylor cheated. I guess I'm sure someone in the group put it on Reddit or something. It's not hard. I don't know who did, but it ended up hitting the internet. And then all my TikToks are like, cheater, cheater, husband, stealer, or whatever. And so I was like, and then the girls were like confirming it, my friends, like liking it. So basically it's confirming it.

And I'm like, okay, well, if you're going to do that, then I'm just going to go tell the story. So I got online, not thinking at all, but like, hey, yes, I did do this, but yes, we're also, she was, you know, hooking up with my husband just the other night too. You know, like it just didn't, I just felt like it wasn't fair to come out and say husband, stealer, but you're also hooking up with my husband. Like, like too. You know, like, it just didn't, I just felt like it wasn't fair to come out and say husband, stealer,

but you're also hooking up with my husband. Like, it wasn't done the right way. In my case. I felt you needed to give context of how this happened. Of how it got to where it did. Yes. I can empathize with that.

It feels like the entire internet is coming at you. Yeah. I mean, I know from your standpoint, I'm sure it felt that way. And you're being labeled this one thing, but the truth is you're like, we've all been doing this kind of crazy thing. There's a lot more to the story than just I am some sort of home wrecker.

Yes. You know, yes. All the things that I'm sure the Internet that you were seeing being said about you. Yeah. Imagine that was difficult. Well, I could have left it at that. And I would have been known as the friend that takes your friend's husband. Like, yeah, I would have been, I feel like labeled as that if I never had came clean

about anything and they would have all been great and hidden, you know, and I would have been labeled as that. And I just feel like, no. So you have no regrets in terms of coming out with this information? No, I think how I went about it, maybe I would have thought a little more clearly, but also I probably would have always came out

and said something about it, because that's just not, I just didn't go do that, you know, like out of, because I was bored, you know, like it grew to that. And to your point, it was out. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, it was out there already. So like I just came on and said, and I never thought it'd blow up.

I was like, oh, a couple of my followers will see this, great, I'll solve it. And then it blew up. At that point, how long had you guys been mom talk? Like how long had you been like, quote unquote, public figures? I'm assuming relatively not long. A year about with mom talk.

And then I had been doing social media for like probably two years on TikTok. Okay. So your marriage ends. Yes. And then how long until you meet Dakota? Two months. Oh wow.

So it was like in the process of divorce. Oh wow. And then he meets a girl, so we're both like dating. So which was, you know, yeah. Well, I mean, when now that I met, we hung out for a while and we weren't in an exclusive relationship and we were both very open about that we weren't exclusive.

It wasn't one of those like, we're not boyfriend and girlfriend, but we're exclusive, which is kind of like muddies the waters with people, we were very clear. And so, you know, there was a period when we knew each other where it wasn't exclusive, which, you know, was difficult for us at times to be open about. Yeah.

And with watching the season or just understanding you and Dakota, it seems like a lot of the conflicts you guys have is around this, what seems to be this early dating period where you guys weren't exclusive, but you were also hanging out with each other. Yeah. And feelings were being exchanged along with other things,

but then there was almost some revisionist history once you guys did establish yourselves to be in a relationship, right? Yeah, yeah, it was very messy, because it was great, and I think it was at the tail end of everything. And I had just like closed things off with the guy that I had an affair with.

So like, it was like, we were friends during all, like that summer, like we still saw each other. So after you came clean about the affair, that continued for a while? Yeah, well we had no one. So everyone like basically dropped us, and I was like literally.

Did his marriage also end Yes, everyone's marriage is now ended. Oh wow in the group. Oh, yeah Oh everyone so your best friend's marriage and this couple that you'd only known for two months marriage. Yeah Yeah, and there was other people there like something that would like watch and Then their marriages ended too. Like there was a couple that one of them just watched. I don't know. It's like messy.

Would you say that it was like a Scarlet Letter walking around Utah? If everybody knew or was a part of it? Yeah. Oh, when it was being done, no. I feel like it was very hush hush. Well like once everybody knew, like the marriages broke off.

Yeah. Oh yes. Yeah. Did anyone blame you? In the situation or the public? No, it's just more like you got accused of being the home wrecker, you know, Reddit. People were talking about you on Reddit. So then you go on TikTok, you tell this whole story.

It becomes literally a national story. Yeah. So I could see how it'd be very easy for these other couples to blame you, because as we know, especially in religious communities, So I could see how it'd be very easy for these other couples to blame you because as we know, especially in religious communities, it's more about the sin or the shame or about like, as long as people don't know about it,

we're fine, but the moment our entire community thinks we're something else, it becomes very difficult to live with. That's the impression that I get, is that accurate? And I guess that's what I'm wondering, do people blame you because it's like, hey, we were fine before everyone knew we were swingers and now that people know we're swingers,

we can't make this work? Yeah, yeah, I feel like it was a big blame on me, but I think they were all gonna get divorced regardless if it hit the internet or not. I found out they were getting divorced before that hit the internet. So. Like that, I found out they were getting divorced before that hit the internet. So the last one that got divorced, I think they had issues prior to that as well.

So yes, but they did put all the blame on me. Like Taylor was the instigator, Taylor did this, Taylor did that. And I'm just like, okay, like we're all adults here. Like everyone made their own decisions. Everyone, you know, played a part in it. And maybe I'm the, they blamed to bring to the internet and made it this huge thing.

Sure, yeah, maybe that was my part I did. But like, I didn't force anyone to do anything that they didn't want to do, you know? There was, yeah, fingers pointed at me and people came out and apologized. After hearing your story, I mean, like, I know what it's like to be in the public eye, I know what it's like to be online.

So if we were friends way back in the day and you would have come to me saying, hey, there's these Reddit rumors, yada yada, I would have been like, hey, don't do the TikTok because I don't think you realize the platform you have and the light you're gonna shine on it. But there's a lot of people who have been in the public eye for much longer than you have.

I see you make that mistake every day today. So it's hard to sit there and criticize someone in your shoes, knowing that it feels like everyone's talking about you and you feel like you have to defend yourself, obviously, I think with the benefit of hindsight, but at the same time, you don't seem like you really regret it anyways, because you were kind of put in that position.

Yeah, yeah. So I feel like if it were me that had gone first and like laid this all out, I feel like I'd feel really guilty that would sit on me. Like I brought this in for why? Why would you do that? I feel like it would have been unnecessary. So I would have felt guilty, absolutely.

I don't know if I even would have. That's my own dirty laundry out there too. It's like, why would I do that to myself? And this was awful for me. This wasn't good at all. I was a major villain in that story. Do you hold any resentment towards the husbands or the man that you had the affair with

of just like you are taking the brunt of all of this hate and, or I don't know, I mean, I've never heard of them before. So are they even, I mean, I know their marriage ended, but like, are they? No, there's no resentment there because I think at the end of the day, I put myself in the situation, I did all this to myself and there's no one to blame but me, you know?

So there's no resentment towards them. I think the only thing that really hurt is like the friends, I guess, like when they kind of like blamed every, like the parties on me, the drinking on me, that was like, okay, but I didn't make you do any of that, you know? That's what hurts, honestly.

It's like they're wanting someone to blame for their own decisions that they made themselves. But no, no resentment towards them. That was all on me, myself. made themselves. But no, no resentment towards them. That was all on me myself. Okay. One of my favorite things to do is knowing where Nick is. It makes me feel super at ease and he always knows where I am thanks to Life360. Justin, I know, was raised on this app. I love it.

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when you use code V-I-A-L-L at checkout. Okay, so two months later you meet Dakota. Yes. Oh, and that is drama. And it's so good. Like why is it so much drama though? Like what, like how? I'm like surviving at this point, hating my life,

insecure, feeling guilty, feeling shitty. And I meet this great guy, I really like him. Like I click with him instantly and I'm like, okay, like this is my guardian angel. Like he's just nice, like he's just listening. He's been in a very dark place, he's a recovering addict. So he's like been in dark places. So he just wants to like help me and like be there for me. But then- I gotta assume him being a recovering addict. So he's like been in dark places. So he just wants to like help me and like be there for me.

But then- I gotta assume him being a recovering addict created a safe space for you in a way that made you feel less judged. I'm guessing he was too busy judging himself and trying to heal that he probably created a very unjudgmental atmosphere for you, which made you feel safe. Yes. And he opened up about a lot of things, which are his story to tell. So yes, it made me feel very. Yes, and he opened up about a lot of things which are his story to tell.

So yes, it made me feel very comfortable and I felt good and safe and this guy, I'm like, great, it's gonna get me out of this hell hole. And yeah, so we start to date and I'm like, okay, one thing I want is just honesty and a fresh start. That's what I want going into this because I don't want that ever again. And so I was very clear to him in the beginning. And so when he asked

me, I think our third time, you know, like, Hey, what are we? I was like, well, we're nothing. We're on our third date, you know, like I, but you are the only one I'm seeing. He's like, okay, cool. Me too. And then we make a Tik Tok together and a girl's like, Oh, just so you know, he was like at my roommates like last week sleeping with her. So just wanna let you know, hopefully you're not dating. And so I'm like, okay, so I see it on the internet. I text him, I'm like, hey, have you like hooked up with anyone since seeing me?

He's like, I did with one girl. And so I was just like, okay. I text him and he's like, yeah, I'm so sorry. He sends me like 15 messages. I ignore him, I'm like, oh my gosh, like I'm bawling, bawling. And I don't even think it's the fact that like, yeah, we're in the gray, but like I think it's just like, I trusted you.

And I've just been through so much. Like I feel like betrayal, but also at the same time I was like karma as a bitch, like in my head, I'm like, this sucks. So, okay, I'm like, whatever, we're in the gray. Like yes, before, okay, let's start fresh. And he's like, okay, well, I'm not ready to be exclusive with you. I'm like, okay, that's fine. Like whatever, let're in the gray, like yes, before, okay, let's start fresh. And he's like, okay, well, I'm not ready to be exclusive with you.

I'm like, okay, that's fine, like whatever, let's date. And then I ask him to come over one night and he's like, I can't, I'm doing a guy's night. I'm like, okay, have fun. He sends me a picture with like all the guys. I'm like, okay, cool. And then later in our relationship, I find out, I start asking more questions

because we're girls, we dig, you know, I'm like digging. I'm like, so, at the early on, I was like, did you kiss anyone? I said, like, I kissed a girl a couple of weeks ago, whatever, like, I was like, OK, like, whatever, I let it go. And then I start digging, like when we're in a relationship, I'm like, so when did you like kiss that girl like that you had like you hooked up with, you know? And he's like, it was this night, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like putting pieces together and I'm like, OK, so then I asked to hang out.

You were at guys night. He ended up going to her house like that night, hooking up with her. The night before he hooked up with me, the late that night, hooking up with her. The night before he hooked up with me, the night after he comes and hooks up with me. And for a girl, this is just a huge deal. Like I can't speak for men, cause he's like, it doesn't mean anything. And I'm like, I get that, but it means something to me.

I hung out with that girl the whole next day at a pool party, by the way, next to me. Okay. And you had no idea. No idea. So I can't imagine if she would have said the night before, I was like hooking up with Dakota Morton. And then like- And this is Jen girl? Jenna. Yes! Okay, I don't want to make her have said the night before that I was like hooking up with Dakota Mortensen. This is Jen girl?

Yes. Okay, I don't want to make her a big deal cause like she's gonna think- She is name dropped all throughout this show. Oh, F me. Yeah. Sorry, Jenna. Okay.

Anyways. I don't think, I think Jenna. It's not about Jenna. It's not. It's about like me feeling insecure and feeling less than and unworthy and not good enough. Like it's not about her, but I'm- Well, and unworthy and not good enough. Like it's not about her. But I'm just-

Well and him lying to you about it. Yes, of course, yes. And so in my head, that's why I'm still like pissed to the say like it triggers me. It's crazy, like I don't know how I'm not over it. But it's like the feelings of that I wasn't good enough to be chosen. Like at that time, like that night,

like I asked you to come over like, and then you sleep with me the night before and the night after and I hang out with that girl and you don't say a word how how like in my head I'm like how did you do that to me after forgiving you three days after hurting me with another girl like and my I'm like I still to this day like I'm not let it go like I can't like it has he come fully Clean about everything that's happened. He's apologized and he's like, I'm so sad like I know I hurt you I was in it was the gray area. Like he didn't owe me that, right?

Like and yes, he could go do that and that's what sucks. And that's like, he didn't cheat or anything. It's the chosen part. Yeah. He made you look like a fool. Yes and not only that, but I forgave you for the first one. I mean you didn't look like a fool, but you know what I'm saying.

No. Like it felt, you know, here you are, hanging out with the girl the next day. She knows you don't. Like anyone in that position. The day she didn't know. She called him that night because she heard me name drop him.

Okay, that should feel better. So she hears me name drop, they're like, are you seeing anyone? I was like, I don't even think I said his name. I was like, yeah. And then she digged and got his name that it was him. So she calls him, you seeing Taylor? Like blah, blah, blah, like how serious is it?

I don't know what he tells her on the phone on the way to my house. like, ugh, I dig. And I dug and I got details I didn't wanna know and I think it hurt because just the lies of it and I was already dead inside, like dying, like of everything else and so that on top of it was like, whoa, yeah, you don't care about my feelings at all. Do you feel like there's a piece of you

that can relate to Dakota not choosing you that night because you didn't choose your husband that night? Right, it's my karma, absolutely. I feel like God is like, this is like your punishment for what you did to your spouse. You're gonna feel what you did. So yes, I have like sat in that and been like, I deserve this pain, I still to this day,

I'm like, every pain I feel like you deserve it. In my head, I'm like, good. At some point, you're gonna have to let it go. Yeah. I know. I know. And to progress with him because I'm stuck. I'm stuck in 2022. Like I really am.

You're only hurting yourself at this point. I know, I'm torturing myself and him. Let's get into that in a moment, but let's talk about the arrest. The show kind of glosses over it, and I can't imagine how hard this is to relive. I imagine this was a very dark night and something you don't wanna think about

or talk about often, and I completely understand that. But I guess I remember seeing it online. And yeah, I would like to know how it got to the point it did like walk us through that night. Yeah, I feel like it was a buildup. So not just that night. This is post, I had a neck topic a few months prior.

And then I had a chemical pregnancy. So obviously don't wanna blame hormones, but I will put that into account. Like I am pretty like whack. What's a chemical pregnancy. So obviously don't want to blame hormones, but I will put that into account. Like I am pretty like whack. Like it's a chemical pregnancy. It's where you lose it so early that like, you don't even notice like most of the time. But your body is kind of operating

as if you're pregnant. Yes. Like you get pregnancy tests and then it just goes, you're not anymore. So I knew because I had taken one and I was, and then I wasn't. So like, you probably just lost it really early. So I was like, okay. And so I think hormones are whack at this point. I'm feeling crazy. I'm feeling lost. I'm feeling, I don't know

what to do. I'm angry. I'm very angry. That's the one emotion I feel. Like, which I'm learning in therapy right now is like really good to an extent, right? Not to that point of that night, but like I was finally feeling like emotion. I feel like that's a step is like anger. And then I ended up like drinking that night again, feeling very lost. I hadn't drank really lately in that time, but I was feeling so low that I went and drank that night and had a girls night. Dakota picks me up. He's angry that I drank and I'm like feeling shitty. I'm crying to the whole way home of like, I hate my life. Like I'm like saying sorry. Like I'm so sorry to my family. Like hysterically sad.

I'm like crying. And I think because the alcohol had taken down that guard, like I could finally fill. And so it was so sad that I was so sad. And then I get home and I think about like what Dakota had like put on. And like, it's not his fault, but like I'm like wanting to cling to something. So I like blame him. Like, I hate you. Like, I'm so angry and projecting on him and I get I'm like throwing things. I'm like, I remember like throwing things and I don't I don't know my daughters on the couch, I got no idea. Like, I should be had babysitters there.

So I think they're upstairs sleeping until I just like to start throwing things. I'm like so mad. And he threw a chair and Dakota's like, hey, like, and he's like here. And I'm like so gone that I don't care. Like, and he throw another chair and it like, we don't know if it hit her or not, but like it sounded like it did. So in the police report, it does say like it hit her, but in reality, like we didn't know if it hit her. It might have not have hit her at all. Like she didn't have any noticeable injuries? Nothing was there. Like my mom took her that night. They inspected her. Everything was good.

Was she crying? I think she was crying because she saw me crying. Like yeah. When I got arrested I was like, he's like, are you okay? And I'm like, no, he's like, what's wrong? And I'm like, I'm hurting inside. Like, I can't do it. And so I was like really in the inside. I couldn't like, I couldn't cope. And then my daughter's in the window watching me and I don't care. I'm just so hurt. Oh, I'm sorry. No, it can't happen. And I don't care. I feel like so careless. I didn't care. And that's what like hurts is like I didn't think about her, you know?

That night. And I ended up getting arrested. I went to jail. And I'm sitting in there like hungover. Sorry, I'm trying to tell the story for you guys. Thank you. Oh, that's a hard one to tell. Um, I'm trying to tell the story for you guys. Thank you. Oh That's a hard one to tell um I'm like yeah, just sitting in the cell and hating my life, of course and To make matters worse and I know this is like funny to people like outside

But I was just as a man because I was dressed as my ex like that was the party with the theme was like you're dressed As your ex so yeah, I have facial hair on Your mugshot. Yeah Well, I think I cried it off but I'm dressed as a man that night and oh So bad, so I go to the cell Dressed as my ex and was your ex involved in the situation was just to cut you in Dakota my ex and was your ex involved in the situation was just to you and Dakota because it seemed unclear oh yeah just Dakota like yeah with all this nothing to do with him

nothing to do with your ex no he was like shocked because I feel like I'm a very calm person like I never yelled or did anything in my marriage so when he heard this he was like what is going on you know anyways I go to jail and then I was filmed leaving the jail. Like I don't know who filmed me and it hit the internet that day. What was jail like? Cold, very cold and depressing. They let everyone go.

Like we were in this like holding area, like altogether. I don't know what that's called. But this like holding area i was obviously like i was i couldn't grasp why was it how did i get here it was in my like in my thoughts i was feeling guilty obviously for everything i'd done and you know my life was like going through my like head and i knew as i got out like if i was like if i get out like i need to like wake up like clean up my life and so um yeah cold and then i went in the cell like they kept me and they put me in the cell and i'm like really Like if I get out, like I need to like wake up, like clean up my life. And so, yeah, cold. And then I went in the cell, like they kept me

and they put me in the cell and I'm like really freaking out at this point. I'm like, oh my gosh, like I am in so much trouble. I go in a cell, I'm like asking the girl like, hey, do we stay in here long? Like, I don't know anything. I was like- You're in a cell with other people,

just like you see in the movies. Yes, so me and another woman. And I'm like, what're like you're in a cell with other people, just like you see in the movies. Yes, so me and another woman, and I'm like, what are you in here for? Cause I was like, I could get beat up, you know, like I thought I was going to get beat up. Cause I, in jail, in the movies you see it sometimes, you know? So I was like asking her, what are you in here for?

And she was like, yeah, the cop accused me of trying to run him over. And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm in so much trouble. Like I'm being put in here. And then she was like, you're going to be okay. And she's like, oh my gosh, I'm in so much trouble, like I'm being put in here. And then she was like, you're gonna be okay. And she's like, what did you do? And she's like trying to help me and soothe me cause she could just, she's a mom

and she could tell I was like so scared. Anyways, I was in there for a little bit and then they let me out but it was just scary thinking about it cause I thought I was gonna stay in there for a long time. Like I thought I was in jail. Do you, I know you were drunk. Do you remember that night

vividly at all or is it, you do? That one I was not, like blood drive was pretty far gone but like I do remember being so angry. Cause I remember seeing the, and I think they show a little bit of body cam footage and you were saying you were in the garage and you were scared and he, Dakota was like coming at you so you were throwing things to keep him away.

Yeah, I think he was trying to like defend himself and also yeah, calm himself that it wasn't like, yeah, it was, I was yeah, the aggressor for sure and I think I can't say it but there's not much he can do without like, you know, as a man, he's scared to do anything so it's like kinda hard for him. So the kind of, you know, he's as a man, he's scared to do anything. So it's like kind of hard for him. So the kind of, to Nellie's point, the accusations you throw his way that the people are going to see watching the show, you don't stand by?

No, everything was dropped besides the assault, which obviously I did like throw things at him. I think, I mean, I did, you know, scratch him and, you know, was like going at him. So that is all, you but everything else was dropped. So obviously with your children being involved with your child, there's just a lot of sensitivity about this issue. And then obviously it comes with a lot of critics. For the people who filed a story

who are gonna watch the show, obviously difficult question, but for the people who do question you as a mother and question the environment that your kids are in, what would you say to them at this point? It was a really big learning lesson. I feel like as, you know, this might sound awful, but I feel like that night also came of good because I really got like help that I needed. So like I instantly got in classes, therapy, like EMDR, like it was like a very wake up call that I needed that help that I needed. So I instantly got in classes, therapy, EMDR. It was a very wake-up call that I needed

that I wasn't doing. So I felt like it was my rock bottom to hit, finally wake up and go get help that I needed. Also to take in my kids' consideration, because I feel like when you're in a really low place, I was fine with my ex taking them. I felt like I couldn't be a good mom, so I was like, yes, if you're good,

I feel like I was okay with them being gone a So I was like, yes, like if you're like good, like I was feel like I was like, OK, with them being gone a lot, which now like I hate when they're gone. Like I'll take them at any chance I get. So I feel like you can just tell the difference of like healing. At that point, I feel like when I got all those things I needed, it helped me as a mom. I feel like I'm sure maybe not to that extent, but moms can relate. I'm being so low.

You cannot like be a fool you can't be like your best self for your kids, you know and I feel like I'm grateful for that Night so it woke me up to be better for them if that makes sense And I don't know if that's the right thing to say but I feel like in a way it helped me to be better Because it woke me up of being like I was in this like still like not being like a bad mom, but not being like the best mom I could be. I was like so lost, you know? Yeah.

And so I feel like that night was like, oh my gosh, like wake up, you need to be better, like get up and do something. And so I felt like, yes, I hold a lot of that guilt and that stuff, but I'm like done having the pity party too. It's like just wake up and be better and try harder at least, you know, you can. I mean, that makes sense after watching the show. Yeah. a pity party too. It's like just wake up and be better and try harder at least. You know you can. I mean it makes sense after watching the show. Yeah. Especially with your character arc.

It starts off the Taylor, Frankie, Paul that we met online. And you come across incredibly troubled, toxic. Yes. You get arrested. I think there's a lot of questions, episode one of like, is this person fit to be a mother? And then going forward,

you really seem like you are turning a corner. You really seem like there's demonstrations of healthy behavior. And so I really appreciate you talking about this with us. Obviously it's difficult. And obviously no matter what- I always think it can be easier, but it never does. And no matter what you say,

I'm sure there'll be people criticizing your answers. And then I think the sensitivity of the issue with children being involved, but you seem like you're trying to be better. Yeah, and I want to, you know, for my kids. And I feel like that right now, that's like my top priority. And I told Dakota that, like, I'm sorry that we've had our struggles but they come number one right now like I've been putting them you know second and that's

not fair and you know I want them like at any time I can and I'm I won't like obviously like yeah with the critics and whatnot I am I know I messed up I was a shitty mom at that time I did a very bad thing I'm well aware thank you like I know but like I think after that is what really matters and I feel like all I want is them to be happy. And so even with all of this, it's hard. It seems like a lot of these things that have happened in your life

that you're not so proud of kind of stem from alcohol. What is your relationship with alcohol today? Yeah, I've been sober for two years, so the night of, I haven't drank since. So congratulations. Thank you. Um, I think that is kind of like a no-brainer and that is the goal is to never, you know,

touch that again. Obviously I'm, I don't like to say never say never. And it's just like more, it's a goal you want to have, you know, What's your soda drink? Learn that about the Mormons. Diet Dr.

Pepper with some goods in there, coconut, you know? I'm an energy drink girl though, like through and through, I chug those like water, it's not good, but with mom life, I'm just like, let's go, you know? I need something. And then also like, I feel like I got help with them. I go to psychiatrists and things like, you know, medications, you know, help like take that edge off.

I'm in anxiety meds. You mentioned EMDR, I've done EMDR therapy before. Yeah, it's incredibly helpful. It's hard. It is very hard. You very much relive your trauma, but as someone who's on the other side of a lot of her trauma, it is very incredibly helpful.

And if anyone is like anyone has been through anything, look for EMDR because it's crazy what that therapy can do. It is, and it can help. And I feel like anything, even counseling, bring couples therapy as well, and that's amazing. And it's really cool because they just help you to learn the tools that you need to communicate. When did some of the other women

who are part of the cast, who if anyone reached out or how did you get back in with that group? Whitney, Whitney is the one who reached out. I didn't expect that answer. She called me when she heard the other side of the story from other people, the girls. And she was like, something about that story

is really not fit, like it's something is sus. And she was like, I wanna hear your side. And so I was like, okay, I'll tell you everything. So she came over and I told them everything that happened and they're like, yeah, you did a shitty thing, but like we're getting told a whole lot, a whole bunch of lies over here. Like, and so they're just like, yeah, we're not,

we're gonna- You were everyone's scapegoat? Yeah, I feel like they all just eventually became my friend again. Like they first, you know, judge the situation was like, okay, I don't know, right? As anyone would. Sure. They eventually came over

and a lot of them were friends with me still. And then it kind of split up mom talk because it was like, if your friends are Taylor, then we're staying on this side. So it kind of was like this major divide. Yeah. So mom talk isn't just all the women we've gotten to know. There was like 20 of us, maybe about 20 of us.

Wow. There's a lot of us. And we're all, we're all the people in the original swinger groups part of mom, mom talk in some way. No one, one was from just one. Your best friend. Yep. Okay.

You started mom talk, right? Yeah. Like our group. Um, yes. Does Whitney agree? I don't know, honestly, but it's true. Like I started it. How did you start it?

I mean, it's not really that deep. Like I just started mom, like content invited a couple of moms over. I was like, let's make some TikToks. They ended up blowing up. So we're like, okay, cool. This is like something people like, let's do it again. And then more and more and more just kept coming.

And then she eventually made her way in the group. Whitney. Yeah. And I don't know if she liked us or not, but she continued and it was more like business too though. Like we do this for a living. So Whitney brought you back in the group. Were you like filming a pilot before you got arrested? Like it was, so like you guys were just kind of,

let's just shoot something and see if we have anything. Yep. It wasn't an actual show at that point. No, nope. They did a full episode, I believe, yeah. Okay. Maybe full, maybe not even, but yeah. And then I think we were waiting on a green light.

So, and then in the midst of that, that's when the rest happened. Who invited you back? On the show? Yeah. Producers, like they, I was like getting like, you know, phone calls, management, and like, well, we might invite you. Like, you know, I think I was coming in as a friend character, like, or like-

Friend of show. Yes. And so I'm like, no, no. Like I was like, I don't want to be in the middle of like, not knowing and knowing, because I was like, my life't want to be in the middle of like not knowing and knowing because I was like, my life's been on kind of hold for this. Like I think I might, you know, I had plans of doing other stuff and so I'm like, I either want to know if I'm in this or not, you know, and so I think they like, it took more time and they're like, okay, yes, sure. Did you feel like that was a decision that the producers had to make and then subsequently

also the women? Like, was there almost like, did you have to get approval from the women as well? Because it seems like, like you're either in or you're out with the group almost in a way. It was funny because I didn't hear. Oh, I heard. I didn't know, like that the girls were saying they're like, wait, Taylor's coming back on. Like, no, not Taylor's coming back on. So I don't know.

It was just like shocking that someone like fans are, I guess, supportive of it. But then I think a lot were too, because they're like, this is kind of like how it ties in all of us together, you know? So I don't know if it was up to them. I think at the end of the day, it was up to like the production. But I mean, I don't know. So did you say yes to coming back before you knew how the women felt about you returning? Yeah. And then I found out and I was like, yeah, I'm so like I'm Where do you draw the line? and I assume that you struggle with this because just to be on reality TV is To accept drama in your life. Yeah. You are inviting it in your life.

In fact, it's part of the job. As someone who is actively working on themselves, going to therapy, obviously, still dealing with the arrest and the fallout of that, how do you balance that? What boundaries or things do you put in place to not only protect you, but again, your children, knowing that you still have to at least present or embrace drama in your life, while simultaneously trying to heal from the wounds of your past?

Yeah, I feel like it was hard to do both, but Dakota and I did set boundaries, like, hey, for our relationship too. And he was very clear to, I think, like, you know, production, like, Taylor is my main priority. And like, if anything gets in the way of that, like, I don't want to be doing this. And so, you know, they agreed to like work with us on that, I think. We'll see how the show is. I think so. But we did know we had like, there was, you know with reality like you said you're you there's drama and whatnot But I held off a lot I think till the end of the season and I kind of kept things like closed off and then I think we have

Pretty big fight on a couch. I don't know if that's in there. There's a lot of talk of you fighting Okay, okay, you don't really see you don't see the fight on the couch Well, it's good stuff for them, but I'm surprised. Tartatel, you guys... Are you talking about after Vegas? You guys are fighting a lot. I don't know before, I believe. With Macy there?

Mm-hmm. Oh, yes, yes. That one's in there. Yes, we saw. Yeah, so that's when I let loose and kind of like, this is, we don't know cameras are here. Like, I get triggered. Wow.

He's like, okay, he's trying to calm me down. I was like, nah, this is what you did. And I like go off. And I'm like, there's no control. to calm me down. I was like, nah, this is what you did. And I like go off and I'm like, there's no control. I'm like triggered, I'm angry. And I feel like it's confusing why I'm hurting so bad anyways in the show. Like, why is this, why can't you give in with all these questions?

And I feel like I just finally release it. And it's kind of like, okay, this is why you're hurting so bad. This is why you cannot move forward or you're scared, right? And so with letting that out, yes, I did like let out some of his dirty laundry, but I'm like, it also like, I had to tell some of that story, you know?

And it was hard. And so, yeah, he was very certain on boundaries and I need to remember that because I'm kind of a loose cannon. I'm unpredictable as well. I feel like I very like don't think, you know, before I speak. Is that something you're still working through? I'm working on, yeah. I feel like with a lot don't think, you know, before I speak. Is that something you're still working through?

I'm working on. Yeah. I feel like with a lot of interviews I've been doing lately in press, I feel like I've really tried to think before I've like spoke, you know, and had respect for, you know, him. And I have to remember it's like his story too. So I need to be respectable, like him and his privacy. So with the balance with kids, I feel like I've just really been trying to be present when I'm with them, full attention and with work, full attention, like trying to be when I'm there to give it my all, you know? Was your ex-husband in any way considered for this show?

Or what, in what conversations do you continue to have with him or what had you had with him? Cause he's noticeably not present. He considered it. I think him and his partner went, fiance, they went back and forth and I think they decided it's best that they don't. And they're like, can we keep the kids off? So we didn't show my children their faces in the show.

And he's like, I think they kind of wanted to see how it went, what it's going to be and whatnot. So yeah. So it sounds like you're on relatively good terms with them at this point? Yeah we're great. We go to soccer games every week together. Okay. Yeah and then we talk daily. I mean you kind of have to do co-parenting but. Sure but I mean honestly. You don't have to be friends and we are. I kind of had the impression that that was still a toxic situation. I mean I had no really idea. That was just honestly an assumption

I made based off of what I'm watching so it is nice to hear that Yeah, we yeah, it was yeah Dakota and then Yeah, ex-husband been great ever since we divorced is there a world where we might see him in the future Is that something that they're I don't know that's I mean I think he'll play it by ear and see the show and he'll decide and Depending on how you guys think it looks that'll be his probably I don't know if he's interested in that. Um But we'll see Macy has a lot of opinions About Dakota. Yeah, like where do you guys stand now because it it seems like she is not letting up you said earlier

Dakota's completely come clean. You're on the same page. You're still trying to work through the lie, but you you now know what the lie is Yeah, Macy keeps operating as if there's more to the lie and she's playing detective. Well, yeah, we did get the anonymous message saying that there was like another girl. And of course in my head, I'm like, if there's one more, I'm 100% out and I've made that so clear. So I'm like, please come clean if there's anyone else

at that time in the gray, just tell me, okay? And he said, no, like I've told you everything, like I'm not worried. That came from just like people trying to stir crap up. And so I was like, okay. And I make that pretty clear. I think you've seen the show, like if there was anything else that came out,

I would be absolutely gone. I wouldn't think about it, I'd be done. As far as you stand now, there's nothing else? Nope, not that I know of. But I think with the show coming out, it'll start things up. Spoken with, yeah. And girls will come out just to do it.

And so I do have to take that in. I would need full on proof and stuff. I think girls are gonna say things just to say. Have you spoken with Jenna? No. You have not? No, you know and she tried to read I think I had a problem with her because she was trying to reach out to him in October and like she was in Europe, he was in Europe,

she's trying to like see him and I'm like yeah he's in a relationship sweetheart like no. And you were full on pregnant then right? Yeah but no one knew at that point. Okay. Still hidden and then after the arrest, again, Jenna reaches out and says, checking in with Dakota, I'm like, girl, no, leave him alone. And so I think there's just the issue of like,

I just don't know why she has like, I know she's like maybe being a good friend, but like, no, I don't know. I hate it because she's probably gonna be sent this podcast if it's on, And then I'm like, uh. And I am in her circle. I think she wants to be on the show. We're in the circle with her.

Sorry. She's in my hometown. Like I will run into her in due time. If she's not on the show, if we have a second season, I don't know. So did they do more than kiss? They hooked up. I got into detail. It's hooking up.

I don't... They didn't do anything crazy. It was like a high school thing. But I did get, I needed details. So I asked every specific question. But it's like the timeline is off. I mean I mean what's I guess what's in question? What is what is what is it? It was did he do more than kiss? Right, he told you he just kissed her and then it was after you or after you matter

I what would have to come like what's your big like if this have if I find out this to be true We're done. Oh the anonymous message or? Or something with Jenna? Because if any, okay, hypothetically, let's say. Well, it seems like Macy thinks there's something with Jenna. I don't know if this is like a misdirect or whatever, the shout is making more drama, or if there's actually something there. It sounds like you don't even know.

But what would be the thing, if anything? Oh, okay, so I guess if there was a third girl, hypothetically, like the anonymous message says, right? Cause he told me about the first two, right? He got in trouble for the one he admitted and then Jenna he admitted. So if there's a third one out there, I'm saying, then I would be gone.

I'm not a good lie detector, so to speak. I know people can be very convincing liars, but I believed Dakota. Yeah, I believe him too. That's why I'm with him. But I mean, there's a part of you that's like, if anything comes out, just know where I stand, right? Yeah. I do believe him too, that's why I'm with him. But I mean there's a part of you that's like, if anything comes out, just know where I stand, right? Yeah.

I do believe him though, absolutely, I wouldn't be with him. Well where do you draw the line with your friends between like, stay out of my business versus like them trying to be a friend? Or are they trying to be a friend, or are they really just caring about the drama and pretending to be your friend?

Yeah. Like how do you draw that line? I feel like I didn't draw any lines with that, I was kind of like, if Macy, you're trying to be your friend. Like how do you draw that line? I feel like I didn't draw any lines with that. I was kind of like, if Macy, you're trying to be a protective friend, like I appreciate it. And then, but also at the same time, like if you're trying to get information from Jenna,

I don't blame you, like get it for me, you know? So there's a lot, I'm like, Dakota, don't be scared then. If you have nothing to worry about, don't be worried about it, you know? In my head. So I'm like, Macy, you do you. Dakota, you do you. Like yes, I could tell her to be like, don't be worried about it, you know? In my head, so I'm like, Macy, you do you.

Dakota, you do you. Like, yes, I could tell her to be like, don't do that, stop. But at the end of the day, I mean, I wouldn't care to know either, you know? So. True, I guess it just depends at this point, it's been a while.

Yeah. And it seems like timelines are muddy and details are gray. So. I have no doubts when the show comes out, it'll stir stuff up and things will come out. Yes Are you in Dakota prepared for that? I think I've just taken it for what it is Like I just can fully expect that things are gonna be thrown my way and people are like this happened this happened

I'm like I have to really did it, you know, you know, I don't know and the spirit of just protecting your mental health and Obviously being involved in the show or are you two like doing any kind of like a couples therapy? Yes, we are. And some major like three hour sessions. Like these people are amazing. It's a husband and a wife that help us. And it's really cool dynamic, actually. They've been amazing.

And they like we had a fight like on the couch with them and. They really helped us like come together and see it. I was really cool. I think it's one of those things you have to be willing to have the tough conversations with each other. Every couple has their issues, right? Every couple has their moments. And I think, yeah, it's just knowing that,

continue to be transparent and have been transparent, even during difficult times. Yeah. I think the only time you bring in outside voices is when you're not sure if the conversations happening between the two of you are as authentic as you hoped they would be. And I think sometimes that can be a process

in relationships. And I think that's part of the reason why I felt like I believed Dakota because I saw a guy who, again, maybe he's just a really good liar, but I saw a guy who seemed exhausted trying to figure out how he can get you to believe him. Where it's just like, all I can tell you is what happened, I have told you, what I have told you is already hard

enough to tell you, what more could I say? I've related to that feeling. That being said, it doesn't mean he's gonna be lying. Again, I'm not a lie detector, but. No, and I think it's fear for me. It's fear of like, yes, I'm learning this and that with people, I'm very still right now. Like I don't wanna progress.

I don't wanna move because I'm very safe here. Like in where my spot is, right? Like if I surrender fully, then it's more like I could get hurt if I find anything else out, if something happens, you know, I get really hurt, but I'm learning it's just more of like safety. And I'm like just scared, I guess. A lot of the women talk about what mom talk means to them and it's some sort of like bigger

thing. Yeah. What does it mean to you? Or is it just something you guys get to do for job for fun? Or is it, or do you want it to have a deeper meaning? Like you don't seem to be one of the women in this group that really is a part of the church or super religious where it almost seems like with some of the other women, mom talk is a statement or some sort of way to express themselves to rebel against the church. But is that what it is for you? No, I feel like for me, it's all for fun. And I feel like for us moms, we all had something in common. You're with kids all day, so I feel like to go out and have fun with your friends and make content and something you do, it was fun.

And so I feel like that's why I started it. And then it did become about more business because yes, it was blowing up and we do this for a job. We do obviously TikTok, so it was like, come in, let's make content and then let's go home, honestly. But I feel like during the filming, and even before, the friendships, the ones I had, I lost so fast,

so it was like I'm kind of terrified of friendships, too, like being super close with girls, because I just learned that it gets messy fast, and so I've been there with them and getting close with them, but also very hesitant and afraid of, I guess, surrendering to friends as well. I think I'm just in a fearful spot. Which of the ladies are you closest with at this point?

I would say Macy I'm pretty close with, but I feel like during filming I got really close with Jessie and Demi, all of them really in different ways, but I love Jessie, she's a little go-getter, and I feel like I relate with her a lot on things, and she has her own story to tell, and we it a lot and then to me also in a way. I enjoyed them both. I don't know how much they show of like the storylines

and theirs but they have such good stories too. And then where do you guys stay with Whitney? Whitney, I love Whitney but you know, she changes her mind every day. Is she either Regina George she seems like she gives Regina George watching she just watching it yeah I mean again it's really TV so who knows you know right we don't know we watched her well I know she had some really not nice things to say about me and I don't know how much they go into that but I was

shocked I was like I had no idea you felt this so strongly about me like. She seems like she fucking hates you. Okay yeah so there's like this built up resentment and I'm like I didn't even know and then I apologized because I didn't know and and there might have been some selfish moments I did because when she was telling us her heavy stuff I was talking about mine and like I can relate I was not a good friend. Yeah, I'll be honest. I definitely, sure, you were self-centered. You definitely stole the spotlight. Yes, that's like, sure. But in that moment, I thought I was a little taken back

by Whitney. Here she is talking about this very difficult situation with her husband. And the response from the women, more I guess than anything was like, it seemed odd that she wanted to keep the spotlight on her unfaithful husband. But maybe not the spotlight, maybe just her feelings. You wanted to feel like, I get it. No, I understand. But it seemed like a weird, I almost would like if I had to come in

and tell my friends about like something, you know, my family member did, or I felt really hurt and I felt really embarrassed and wrong and then I tell them the story and they don't come across as that judgmental or critical and then you, someone else is like, hey, I got some shit to deal with. I almost would feel glad that they're not, because in a lot of those situations, a lot of the women could have been like,

I mean, shit, the way they talked to fucking Jen about what's his name. Zach? Zach. Yeah. It could have been that, you know? It was almost as if Whitney wanted the, she wanted the attention so bad

it didn't even matter how she got the attention. Yeah. I don't know if that was accurate or not. It's like, yeah, you shouldn't have opened your mouth, but I don't know. I didn't feel like, it seemed like a weird hill for her to die on. It wasn't my intention though, to be like,

this is what happened to me. I guess I was trying to relate of like, we're all going through stuff. Yeah, no, I didn't fall to you all that much. I honestly thought it was bizarre that Whitney was so mad at you. I mean, I think it was built up resentment. I was like, it must be.

And then there was like a whole nother day, I think that's not even in the show of like, oh, she went hard on me. And I was like, it must be. And then there was like a whole nother day, I think that's not even in the show of like, oh, she went hard on me. And I was like, whoa. I mean, Whitney's a little calculated and I don't, I don't fall, I've been accused of being calculated. I don't even think being a calculated person

means you're a bad person. That being said. I think. That being said. Depends how you use it. Knowing that Whitney reached out to you and invite you in the group, is there a world where you think Whitney invited you in

to make sure that you were the villain? Maybe, and I think she thought, yeah, I'd definitely be the villain. I think it was like, I don't think anyone had any speculation that Whitney was gonna be the villain. And I think Whitney thought I would be the villain, and everyone else, honestly, I don't know. It sure looked like Whitney thought

you were gonna be the villain, and planned on you being the villain. Yes, yes, I think that's what it was wanting her, she was wanting it to look like and honestly I was at the point I'm like I'm exhausted of being the villain like I don't I'm sorry for whatever I did I'm sorry like that was my goal like I'm tired of hurting people if I hurt you valid. Let's fix it You know has she apologized to you for all of the nasty things she said about you um I

Don't know if she apologized for that, but she was like, let's, I think, how can we come together type thing? Because it seems like you, I mean, you're like, yeah, you know, Whitney this, Whitney, like you seem very positive about her. And so to hear and to have watched all of the things she said and the way she acted towards you,

it just makes me feel protective over you of like, I haven't even seen it. Don't let her, you you of like, don't let her walk over you, don't let her in, like have that wall up with her because she does feel a little. That's what everyone's telling me too. Well, there's this weird thing people do, right? You fucked up, we know this, we've talked about this, you did some bad things, you're currently still paying

the consequences, you have a PO. I imagine that's difficult, you did some bad things, you're currently still paying the consequences, you have a PO. I imagine that's difficult. You will continue to have to face criticisms and judgments from the crowd. People are gonna respond to this episode, have thoughts and feelings about what you said. I'm sure some people will still criticize you. And there's always gonna be, it seems like people who still feel like despite, you know,

you having paid consequences or whatever, they, it's like they decide for themselves if they think that you have answered whatever, you know, judgments they think you should answer for. Yeah. And it, Whitney comes across, and again, I haven't, I don't know her as a person, who's decided if she thinks you are, if you are contrite enough, if you've paid the appropriate all the other consequences that your actions have brought, it seems like, and Whitney's not the only one who's like this, where they just decide that they should be the ones who feel like

you should pay certain consequences, and they do that socially. They socially ostracize you, they'll talk shit behind your back, they'll spread rumors, et cetera, et cetera. And it's interesting to hear that Whitney actually was the one who brought you in and was willing to hear the other side of the story, because the Whitney we get to watch in this upcoming season

is quite the opposite. Yes, that's why I think I was kind of shocked and taken back, I was like, oh, like I didn't know there were all these like built up feelings, you know? And I had to tell her that like because she did tell me like you're like being forgiven for all these things you've done and I was like you're seeing all maybe the good things but you don't remember like

I'm the one in my DMs, I'm reading all the negative comments like you must be looking on a different thing because I'm I see it every single day, you know? Like it's crazy to think that you think that I have no haters out there. Like I have a ton. It's insane actually. But yeah, so I was like, I fair that you feel that way, but not the case. Like, I mean, you must be reading another article about me because I'm not reading that same one, you know? Well, part of it is this like, it's, there's a, you know, we all deal with it, right? Like there's a self-centeredness in social media.

No one sees your comments more than you. Whether it's praise or criticism, it's the loudest for whoever it is. So for Whitney, her criticism, I'm sure feels really intense. And for Demi, for Michaela, I'm sure for everyone feels like no one has it worse than them. And until you actually just kind of look up and kind of maybe just put yourself in other people's shoes

and you maybe can empathize a little bit. But yeah, it seems like Whitney is very, she comes across as very aware of what's going on in Whitney's world. I don't know if that's accurate or fair, but that's how it comes across. No, and I think other people see that even in our friend group.

They're like, there's just like some something as simple as a dinner, you know, they're like, let's invite, like, let's maybe not, not invite Whitney. I'm like, no, we're like, Whitney's coming. Like we're inviting Whitney. And then they're like, just be careful. Like they're like, I don't think you know how she like feels about you. Like, I don't know. I guess I'm unaware.

I haven't, I don't know. Well, maybe you don't care. Maybe you're still willing to be someone to her regardless of how she is to you. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean haven't, I don't know. Well, maybe you don't care. Maybe you're still willing to be someone to her regardless of how she is to you. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I don't know again, I don't know what she does in the show, but I'm like very,

that's not my priority in life. Like I don't really care if you guys like me or don't like my relationship and my kids are right now, the main thing I'm sorry, I cannot give you a good friendship right now. Maybe when I'm things are calm down, but you don't, and I think I literally tell her on the show, and she's like, I feel like you don't try,

and I'm like, I'm not going to. Like, I'm not gonna be the friend that you need from me. I'll be here as like a cordial friend. We do business together, we're filming, like I'm here, but I cannot try that like, let's hang out, or let's do this, like try that extra effort, because it's not there right now for me, you know? And I'm very clear to, I feel like most of them about that.

How do you want people to see you? I don't even know how I see me. Sometimes I feel like I still learning. I still struggle a lot. I feel like with mental health, like, I feel like very lost sometimes. And I feel like Dakota's like, I feel like you don't even know what you want. You know, like you're very lost. Like, what do you want?

You know, do you still question? I mean, you, it comes up a lot during the show, but do you still question whether you're a good person or not? Yeah, I do. I do. And I fully don't think I'm like, I think I've done better and lessons have been learned. But I feel like I have a long way to go. And I feel like I could be better. And I am not forgiving myself, and I don't know how people actually do that for the things I've done, you know? Are you speaking more specifically with regards to? All of it. Like, I guess what I did to my best friend,

like, no, like my husband, I have a lot of guilt with that. Like, how did I do that? And I deserve what I got from Dakota, and how did I do that night with my kids? They're like, there's just so much like. I think the kids part. It's hard, I got from Dakota. And how did I do that night with my kids? There's just so much like. I think the kids part. It's hard, I don't know.

I hear you on that, hanging on to that guilt. The other stuff feels like a lot of people were involved. A lot of people made a lot of decisions. I think there's a lot of blame to go around. But at the end of the day, I know what I did. I think you could still hold yourself accountable for what you did, and I think you are, without taking other people's blame as well. Yeah.

Or living in it, you know? I think like, thinking about it, living in it every single day is not good for your kids. I think moving on and closing that chapter and saying, okay, that was fucked up, I did a fucked up thing, but the person I am today, whole different person, and that I think moving on and closing that chapter and saying, okay, that was fucked up, I did a fucked up thing, but the person I am today, whole different person. And that I think is what you focus on

and you lean towards for your kids, I think. No, and I agree. And that's why I'm saying the pity party needs to stop when I get in that space of just stop crying about it, Taylor. Get up and just try harder. But I hate that you say that you think you're a it, Taylor, like get up and just like try harder. But I hate that you say that you think you're a bad person. I don't think you're a bad person. Yeah, I don't know.

I think you've made mistakes and you've done a couple of bad things, but I don't think that makes you a bad person. Yeah, yeah, I don't know necessarily. Like I feel like I've most of the time, 99% of the time, good intentions with people, you know? Like I feel like I never go for someone with bad intentions. people, you know, like I feel like I never go for someone like for with bad intentions So in that sense, like I feel like overall I'm a decent person, you know, like I mean well

Yeah, well, and there's also just a lot of examples of reality TV stars who claim to do the work Mm-hmm. We follow a lot of different reality TV shows. Yeah, we follow a lot of different scandals. Is it crazy? I've never seen really reality TV. No, it's not that crazy I'm new to it. I had to binge Makes sense. No, it's not that crazy. But I you know, we see I mean we talk about Raquel Rachel, you know Vanderpump There's a person who is talks about have gone to doing the work and therapy and mental health But everything she is doing online is is seems and still incredibly toxic,

destructive, spiteful, evil even. And so listen, on this show, we recognize we all make mistakes, some more than others. Some mistakes are very serious and they require legal consequences, which you're dealing with, but people can make changes, people can improve, people can do the work, and I think that's what comes down to you.

It's like a lot of people say they're sorry, a lot of people say they wanna change, very few people actually do. But it seems like you're actually doing it and trying. And I won't say there's not other toxic aspects of my life, still like drama, like with the girls and stuff. We all have drama. Yeah. To be.. I'm, yeah. To be.

The main things, yeah. Like no one's expecting you to not be dramatic at times. Yeah. But it's, it's. I thought where you were going with that is my petty little TikTok I recently did. What did you do? I just posted one that stirred up so much drama.

Like resurfaced. You wanna address it? It was just like dumb, but it was. What was it? It was more like about the girls, like the way they said they didn't wanna do the show cause they were offered it. It was just dumb, but it was... What was it? It was more about the girls, the way they said they didn't wanna do the show because they were offered it

when they said they chose their families on a podcast. And so I was petty and I told the truth and I stirred that up. Any regrets there? No, I felt good. Was that any of the girls that are on the show today? No, no, no, but they went on, someone went on a podcast and talked about it.

So you're still a work in progress. Yeah. And Dakota was like, Taylor, why? He's like, why did you do this? And I was like, he's like, do you feel bad? And I was like, not at all. It feels so good. Like it wasn't that deep. It was more like silly. It was more silly. Yeah. So let's close with you, you and Dakota. Do you, how, assuming he's telling you the truth, how do you get over it? Yeah, I mean, at this point, it is a lot of self work. I already know that.

Like it's past the, it's past the Jenna, it's past Dakota, it's me. It's like, how am I gonna get past this feeling worthy? You know, it's all those feelings inside that keep me in this place. And honestly, just taking a jump of like being full surrender and if you get hurt in the process, that's just part of it, you know?

You survived this much already. Yeah, I'm like, I've been through hard stuff. Like if anything happens, that's where therapy work comes in is like, no matter what happens on his end, you're gonna be okay. And that is like where you need to get to a point like if it happens and he does awful things, it's okay. Not that he will, but if it happens,

everything's gonna be okay, you know? And so that's where we're at, and I love him so much, and he's a great partner, he's a good man, and I do wanna marry him, that's the goal, but I feel like I just need some self work before, you know? How's the baby? So good, he's amazing, he's here. Well, not here, here, but the hotel.

He's doing well, you enjoying it? Yeah, I'm not sleeping, and we're go, go, go. How old? We're surviving five months. Five months, okay. So we're close with- Rivi, we are close with Rivi. Are you sleeping good?

She does pretty good. She wakes up maybe every now and then once, around like four or five. Yeah, so she's pretty good for the most part. Nick will bring her into the bed and we all kind of half asleep, half awake cuddle. Yeah. So we're doing okay.

Do what you do, you know, I bring him in the bed to him. Like I'm gonna sleep a little bit here now. You do what you have to do to survive. Yeah. Well, Taylor, we appreciate you coming. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah, thanks for coming.

And thanks for being so open. I know this wasn't easy to talk to, but. Two years late, but here we are. Here we are here we are We wish you the best and we wish you all the happiness in your life and in you and Dakota and your family and You know Keep doing what you're doing. It sounds like you're on a good path. I hope so. Thank you guys so much both of you Thank you. Thank you. Take care. Thank you guys for listening Don't forget to send us questions at SNCC atFiles.com for all things texting office hours.

We'll see you back tomorrow. Bye.