The Viall Files - E807 - Going Deeper w/ The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives - Jen, Jessi, Demi, Layla, Mikayla, and Mayci

Episode Date: September 11, 2024

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper, with The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives - Jen, Jessi, Demi, Layla, Mikayla, and Mayci Hulu’s Secret Lives of Mormon Wives is taking the world by storm! We’re joined by the cast (minus Whitney) to discuss… well, Whitney. We also get the exclusive on Taylor’s swinging parties, Jen’s marriage with Zac, and divorcing in the Mormon church.  “We don’t just churn butter all day.” Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS Audible - Listen to Drop Dead at https://www.Audible.com/dropdead  Shopify - Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at https://shopify.com/viall   Hero Bread - Get 10% off your order at https://hero.co and use code VIALL at checkout. Dailylook - Head to https://dailylook.com to take your style quiz and use code VIALL for 50% off your order. Ritual - 25% off your first month for a limited time at https://ritual.com/VIALL  Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @jenniferaffleck @_justjessiiii @demilucymay @laylaleannetaylor @mikayla_matt @maycineeley @justinkaphillips @dereklanerussell Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 02:34 - Mom-Tok 06:18 - Stories 14:26 - Swinging 20:00 - Faith 28:11 - Zac 49:32 - Terminology 55:39 - Whitney 01:16:32 - Health And Being On Show 01:25:39 - Housewives 01:26:34 - Other Questions 01:31:40 - Outro

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Wow, this is a first time for us. We have one, two, three, four, five, six. You're counting, Nick? I can count. Seven ladies. Well, Nellie is the Vilephiles. True, true, but she's our girl now. She's Mrs. Vile Follows.

I'm part of Mom Talk. Yes. Ooh, I'm part of Mom Talk. Absolutely. Can you have someone outside of Utah? Absolutely. Absolutely. That's a great place to start.

How does one become a Mom Talk, a Momfluencer? You have to be Mormon, just kidding. No, serious question. Is everyone Mormon? No, no, I'm not. Everyone has Mormon roots. Me and Jesse are in. We're the rebels.

But everyone has Mormon roots though. Everyone grew up Mormon. You're not Mormon, period. I thought you were part of the saints. I don't know. She is? I think it depends on the day. I don't know why they did it that way.

She doesn't have the same sweet girl. Do you have no Mormon in you? I grew up Mormon, so I haven't been practicing, yeah, the Mormon roots. So you grew up in it? Yes, I haven't been active for like 10 years. But we'll wait and see. I mean, no, I'll be converting. We're just kidding.

I'm just kidding. And if I'm growing up in a Mormon house. So is your parents still in it or do you like exiled yourself? No, so I'm a former Catholic. Well, I'm Catholic. Cool. I grew up in a very Catholic household.

So I relate to the- I feel like it's different for me. Just like, I'm too old to be a straighter mother. No, I grew up in California, so it's very different. Mormons in California are way different than Mormons in Utah. And so I grew up with my mom like cussing us out on the way to church and she was a church leader.

And in Utah, it's completely different. So I don't feel like I was ever that, well, for some people. I was never by the book. Like we did things on Sunday. Did you end up back in Utah? Cause my parents got divorced and then I moved to Utah with all my siblings and my mom.

Okay. Yeah. Did she get back into the church? She, I don't know. I feel like it was a facade. Like maybe she acted like she was, but I don't feel like it was ever that important to her. I don't know. That's me speaking for her. All right, so you hate God You're not religious you're not part of it where where does where's the spectrum continue who is the second least religious person in this?

Mormon scale Michaela speak for you. You're bad. I'm the alcoholic on the show if you can't tell. I don't follow any of the guidelines. What do you mean? You don't drink, you don't smoke, you don't swing. Well, I have. Yeah, but you don't. And I got knocked up out of marriage.

It's not a regular practice. I'm not a big hutch rinker and it's not because I'm- Well, it's not their guidelines. It's not because of St. Joseph or whatever. Yeah, St. Joseph. What is your guy? What's his name? Joseph Smith.

Joseph Smith? St. Joseph. St. Joseph.? What's his name? Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith. He's close enough. He's been trying. I tried. So you're a bad Mormon.

Yeah, I would say I'm like the rebellious one on the cast. My dad wasn't Mormon, my mom was. So I grew up like a mutt. So I have like the best of both worlds, you know? Okay, so that's why you bring the flask of vodka to the parties. Yeah, creates waves, Wayne. Not a girl.

Mrs. Joseph Smith over there. Yeah, it is. How did you feel about that? Oh my gosh, all the feelings. I mean. Was Zach's parents, was it more like Zach and Zach's parents, or was it you being like-

Yes, I'll be honest. I was more worried about Zach's family than I was about how I felt about the situation because it's not my house, you know, and I didn't want to like disrespect them and it falls back on me not on them. So that was the thing that I was most worried about. And did you grow up in the Mormon church? Yes, I grew up.

She's wearing her garments. This is our very Mormon. I'm actually not. I'm trying my best. You know, it's so funny that in this group, I'm like the most LDS, but in my friend groups, I'm like the craziest. So like my own personal friend groups, I'm the craziest.

So it's very interesting to be like labeled the most Mormon in this group. I also have my past. Taylor did say that, you know, you all kind of have your stories and I don't know how much, I don't think much of them was portrayed on the show. I feel like it was very focused on Taylor

and the swingers and the arrest and Whitney being not a very good friend at all. Yes, thank you, bitch. Thank you, McKellar. And so what is, I mean, what is y'all's story? I guess we can start with you, Jen. Like, you know, how did you get here? Where'd you come from? So yeah, I grew up in the Mormon faith,

and I actually grew up with foster kids my whole life. I shared my bunk bed. Yeah, with children. We did meet your mom on the show. Yes, that's right, Maria. We love her. Yeah, I grew up with foster kids and I shared my bedroom, I shared my closet, I shared everything and growing up we were taught

to teach these kids that we love them and God loved them so when they left their home that they knew that someone loved them and it's so funny, yes, there are pros and cons to being raised in the Mormon faith but for me it was my relationship with God. And I always go back to that, even when like I doubt my faith, I'm like, oh, it's about my relationship with God

and it looks different for everyone. But yeah, so my mom actually converted to the church when she was 25, she's from Ecuador, and she smoked, she drank, she did everything. And she came from a very dysfunctional family and she saw like the Mormon families, like in her neighborhood, and she's like, wait dysfunctional family and she saw the Mormon families in her neighborhood and she's like, wait, I kind of want a strong family. So she converted to the church, she moved to America,

she didn't know English. My dad knew Spanish because he served on an LDS mission. They met, my mom became Mormon, had all of us and the rest is history. And then you're still very devout. They met, my mom became Mormon, had all of us, and the rest is history. Okay. Aw. And then you're still very devout in your family. Yes, I've had stages.

Like after I graduated high school, I definitely left the church for a little bit. I drank, I had sex before I got married. I did all those things that Mormons don't do. What? No, oh, shit! It's crazy. For a Mormon, that's a big deal.

Like, you know, outside of the Mormon culture, like, like, whatever. That's the norm. Yes, that's, yeah, that's the norm. But for me, I did everything. It was important for me to have that experience, to not just like follow what everyone else was doing and to really figure out what I wanted.

Yeah, and then ultimately I decided, you know what? Like, this does make me a better person. It makes me happy. So that's kind of my journey. I love. Okay. And Demi, it's Demi not Demi. You said it the same way twice.

Demi, Demi, Demi. I heard Demi not Demi. Demi, Demi. Oh, Demi. Demi, Demi. Demi, Demi. Demi, Demi. My full name is Demetria.

That usually helps people understand why it's not Demi versus Demi. Okay, is name's Demetria. That usually helps people understand why it's not Demi versus Demi. Is that like Russian? Greek. Oh, okay. Our Greek goddess. Greek goddess, yeah. Taylor was telling me that she said

you had an incredible story. Oh, that's sweet of her. That's so sweet of her. Yeah, I can go on and on and on and ramble. She really can. I am self-conscious, because I'll look at everyone and they're like, okay, we get it.

I'll be like, so in 2002. They're like, I woke up on a Wednesday morning. Yeah, they're like, wrap it up. I'm a talker. I'm all about the details connection. I love it all. I'll keep it short and sweet for the sake of the time and everything.

But yeah, I grew up in a similar situation to Jessie, kind of like a, not a broken, but like a half, my dad was not in the church, my mom was, and my mom was like, toed the line beyond, which was like traumatizing in and of itself, especially with religion, you know how it goes, you know, it's already like, you're in or you're out for most people,

and it was like black and white. And then my dad came from like a long line of they didn't even know what religion was so it was just such a stark contrast. So the faith aspect for me was like very interesting and intriguing because I almost like resented my mom for being like no you don't miss a Sunday you don't miss young women's and like miss all these different activities that you do within the church. And then my dad was just like a free spirit, you know? So naturally I'm more of like the free spirit. So I always

kind of went against the grain and that was like a struggle for me. So finding like where I fit within the church has been such an interesting journey for me. And I'm to a place where I'm just like, okay, what feels right to me? What's authentic to me? This is my journey. I have one life. Like I want to make sure that I'm focused on my relationship with God, that the people around me are good, the relationships that matter are good, and that's like the end of it for me. So as far as religion goes,

I would say I've kind of stepped away from more of like the religious practices or the culture, if you will, and more just leaned into, okay, my savior and my relationship with God, and how are my relationships in my inner circle? And that's kind of what I focused on. So yeah, there's a lot of in between that, but for the sake of time, I'll save that.

And if you have any specific questions, yeah. I will. Amen. Leila and Macy, where do you stand in terms of how Mormon are you? I don't know, like I'm active. So I don't know. What does that mean?

I go to church. I teach primary, so I teach like kids in church. And then I have a temple recommend, which means that I'm worthy to go to the temple, which a lot of people don't believe, but that is the truth. Worthy, that sounds judgmental. I know, worthy. Yeah, you have to be worthy to enter in the house of the Lord.

And you are. Yes. Oh, hell yeah. I mean, I don't call all... Oh, Macy. Oh, hi. It's not the worthy queen. Have they seen your show?

No, yeah. And are you still worthy? Yes, I don't do anything bad on the show. Did they ship call you an ex or what? I don't know, I mean, I said it as like, I joke, but I grew up very Catholic, but like what's different from where I sit to, you know, as it, and I grew up in a very religious household,

so I grew up around like priests and nuns, which is very different than like your normal Catholic person. Like I think Catholics are more like famous for being like Catholic-ish. Yeah. It's like you're Catholic because you go to church on Sunday and Easter and I think there's a spectrum.

But it seems like from afar Catholics, at least your average Catholic, doesn't have the intense community that people in LDS have or Mormons have. Like there's like an entire city and it really, it seems much, it almost seems more about the community than it does the church.

And it almost feels like there's an incentive to play ball in the church so that you are accepted in the community. Is that accurate? Because I feel that's the vibe you get from afar. And I think that's the fascination with the show in terms of, you know, what do you guys have to do? How are you accepted? Is it, it's almost like Game of Thrones

inside your communities slash religion. Hunger Games, yeah. Or like, I don't know, man, I just had to go to confession. Like, fuck. I didn't agree with that. And as a Catholic, it's a little less intense and it feels very intense in the LDS community. I think we talk about that all the time.

Is it the actual Mormon guidelines or is it just the culture? Yeah, I believe it's the culture. And I grew up in California, so I'm a California Mormon. So I will say it's very different growing up in California than moving to Utah and being in Utah. People can be a lot friendlier in the state of Utah, for sure.

I remember when I was on campus at BYU, because I went to BYU, which is the Mormon school. I remember my first week there, there's people saying hi to me, and I would turn around and be like, who is this person talking to? But people were very friendly. And so I was like, oh, so is the Mormon school. I remember my first week there, there's people saying hi to me, and I would turn around and be like, who is this person talking to? But people are very friendly. And so I was like, oh, so Mormons here are very friendly,

which is nice, but there is more judgment. It's like, oh, you drink coffee? You can't be worthy. Because I do that. In confessional, it's one-on-one, right? And when you're in the Mormon church, it's almost set up in a way for judgment to happen, because if you're unworthy, you can't take the sacrament. So in your whole congregation,

you have to like pass the bread and water on. And if you don't take it, everyone's like, oh my gosh. So it's like a moment in church. It is. And everyone in your sacrament sees you not take it. So that creates the judgment. Wow.

You're like, what did she fucking do on Saturday? Exactly. That's how I felt. I would say they are moving far from that though. Like it has been especially in Utah and that's why I'm excited that we all have Utah roots and that this light is being shined on the culture in Utah specifically because you talk to a lot of members

outside of Utah and they're like, you guys do what? That happened to you like where, how? Like there's a weird Utah culture that is specific to Utah and that's why I think this is so interesting, the entire thing. Yeah, for sure. Who in this room, if anyone, was in any way directly or indirectly part of the swinging group?

I was at the parties. I'm not, it's not me. Maci went to a party. I'm like, what? I was at the parties. I was at the parties, but I- You're a spectator. No. We heard some watch. We heard some watch. Yes, people did.

You didn't watch any of it actually happen. I'm kidding, that was for shock factor. I was like, you've been lying. No way. No, it is so crazy and no one believes me, but believe me when I say, we went to multiple parties and I had no clue what was going on. And that is so shocking coming from like one of the most observant people. Like I pick up on the fact that I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm

like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm me when I say, we went to multiple parties and I had no clue what was going on and that is so shocking coming from one of the most observant people. I pick up on everything. We had no. She, well, I mean. It's not true. We weren't even invited to the parties

and we had an inkling that they were swingers. I think they're swingers. And she had the party doesn't know. When I was at the parties I did not know that that was going on. I'm saying for someone who's as observant, like I sit back and I read the room, I like pick up on a lot of things and little nuances, it's shocking that I was actually at the parties and didn't know that that was going on behind closed doors. Granted, they never swung when we were at those parties.

But weren't they leaving and like going upstairs and doing stuff? No. You didn't get leaving and like going upstairs and doing stuff? No. I thought that they were like, no, because Taylor's ex-husband came up to Brett and he was like, so are you like the jealous type? And Brett was like, I mean, I don't share if that's what you mean. He's testing the waters. Testing the waters.

And he was like, well, I mean, I don't share if that's what you mean. My husband's six five, like Tate's probably barely six foot and he's a meaty guy. So I guarantee you at that point, he was like, okay, back off, like he was like, well, I don't share if that's, you know, like kind of squared up a little bit. And so I think that they kind of knew right off the bat,

like they're not down. And so anytime we went over, like we would drink and we would hang out and we would like mix and mingle, but nothing like that ever went down. And so when I tell you we had no clue, like when it all came out, I was just as surprised as everyone else. Like I had zero clue that anything was going on.

She did say that a lot of it happened at the after after party. Yes. I know, but it seemed like the party is when they would feel out the situation. She had an idea. I literally thought they were swingers before anything came out. I took Michaela and Whitney aside

I was like I have this theory that they're swingers, but you can't say anything so I want to start a rumor This is actually a drama came out because I got invited by one of the husbands not to swing But like to go to a cabin party to swing you were getting recruited. I guess so Wow By the wife yeah, I gotited without her uninviting me. It was like, oh sorry. That's kind of a flex. She was like, no, no, we can't have her. She's like, sorry, there's nothing I can do.

Her face is just too hot, her ass is too hot. We don't let her compete with that. Yeah, no, that ass. So I was like, after that happened, I was like their first sure swingers. And so when she said she's at the party and doesn't know, I'm like, how would you not know? I've never even been and I knew.

Like I had a feeling I could feel it in my soul. It makes you so, you were so innocent about it. You're like, oh, we're going to a cabin Should I bring like my ski clothes and they're like She's like, oh it's not a part it's not like that. I was like, okay, she's like actually sorry There's not enough beds. So you guys probably won't want to go no low-key not to make this super spiritual But that kind of shows where you're at and where I was at. I was in a dark freaking place.

Oh, maybe that's why you didn't notice the swing. No, I'm not kidding. Like, I genuinely, like, I felt sick to my stomach going to the parties. I genuinely did, but I thought it was because it was just like we were drinking. I was like feeling off with Brett. His mom had just died and like there was a lot going on.

And so I just had so much going on, but kudos to you for picking up on this. There's a lot of talk of sinners and saints on this show. And you seem to be part of the sinners. I mean, I'm a divorcee. I feel like that's how we got lumped in. All of us are divorced. All the sinners.

Yeah, I wasn't sure how serious that... And that's the big fascination, I think, from people who watch Mormons from afar, which is like, how intense are you guys? Because it seems to be like, and we have a large part of our audience, I think it kind of comes from my upbringing, where whether you're Mormon or Catholic or Christian,

there's just a lot of people who have left these respective faiths or religions because of the judgment and shame centered around these. And it is fascinating to see people who don't quite leave, kind of staying in it, but don't practice and like the decisions that are made. Were you, I mean, the way you're describing it is you were going to these parties,

not as a swinger, obviously, but as someone who felt accepted by a group that were also kind of participating in non-LDS behavior? Is that almost how you found yourself going to these parties? Yeah, I would say just being in such a weird and dark place from being divorced

and going through the blending of a family and all that I was going through, I was not in the best place spiritually, mentally, and I think it was just kind of, it also was like work for me too, like in a sense. Like I was kind of building relationships as well. Like I had just joined MomTalk and so she was inviting us to come and I was like,

well, this will be good for our work relationship as well. And then aside from that, of course, like my husband and I were participating in things that maybe we wouldn't have otherwise as far as like drinking and not going to church as much, but that was more to do so with like my personal circumstances. But I do think that, you know, there is a spectrum. There are people, like people show up on Sunday hungover and like that's where they're at, you know? And so-

And they're allowed to go. Yeah. And they're still in our comments judging us. I feel like the culture should change in that way because church isn't for perfect people, church is for imperfect people and we go there to be better. I think we've a lot of LDS people, especially with culture, like I just think we have that mixed up.

Like there's this expectation to be perfect, to show up perfect. And a lot of people just feel like, oh, because I'm not perfect, that means I don't belong there. But it's hard, right? Because that's culturally ingrained in us. It's also just human nature to just judge.

I think it's human nature too. From an outsider point of view, I get what you're saying that church is for not just the perfect, but I wouldn't go if I knew everyone was judging me. Yeah, exactly. I think when it comes to Catholics, communion, we call this sacrament,

technically you're not supposed to take communion if you've sinned, but very few people, the most devout would actually not go and respect, but your average Catholic, they're still taking communion if they're out late the night before. So there's no real moment of judgment where it seems like at your all's church, there's like a, oh, I guess I'll go to church

and get fucking looked at all day long. Who signs up for that? Because I mean, if Taylor can show up to church after everything she's been through, after the swinging scandal. She was going right after the swinging scandal too. Yes, we can all go, because like, I mean, that's what I admire about her, she doesn't give an F.

Well, that's the thing, I mean, you say that about Taylor, but like, that does require strength. Yeah. And it requires some guts and whatever Taylor's doing, seemingly doing the work, but like, not everyone has that type of strength You know, right I mean, you know so for the people who would like to go to church are afraid of being judged and don't have that inner strength like say people like

Taylor have like how does someone like that feel accepted in your community for sure? That's what I love our comments There's like people that are saying well I would feel much more comfortable in a room of these women Than all these Mormons in the comments that are judging them on we've been destroyed everything that we're doing exactly Hopefully it's opening up that conversation. Yeah, and creating that change like there needs to be change That's why I'm personally so excited for this show and there's so many members. Are you worthy? Are you temple worthy? Yeah, okay, I don't know Layla And I'm not gonna like say that I'm super active like I try to go to church as much as I can but Yeah. Okay. I don't know. Layla, you're a lot of your- I think I am, yeah. No, and I'm not going to like say that I'm super active.

Like I try to go to church as much as I can, but I have sex before I married. I drink here and there and I'm taking it day by day and ultimately just my relationship with God. I feel like that's what it comes down to and that's just so personal. But if you were to put me on like a scale, I'm definitely not following things to a perfect T, but I show up when I can, and I think that that's the most important thing.

And how has your divorce been while being a part of the LDS community? And like, is it been a struggle? Have you feel supported by your friends? What has that been like? I feel my friends are all super supportive, and luckily half of these girls, like we mentioned, have gone through divorces,

so I feel like a lot of just sympathy from them are divorced. All of us are gonna be divorced soon. I'm just kidding. Jokes. Jess, you were divorced? Yes. Demi, Layla. Taylor.

No. Taylor. Okay. So four out of the eight. Yeah. And that's a no-no in our church. The sinners and the saints. You guys are just like us.

Yeah. Just a little more scandalous. I know. No, we really are. That's why I'm excited for this. I'm like, we are not much different than the rest of the world. We don't just churn butter all day and wear bonnets.

This thing is on there. There's a lot of members too. We bake and we twerk. There's a lot of members too that like, don't follow things to a perfect tee. And I just think it's honestly commendable that a lot of these girls were willing to admit that, hey, I've done this here and there and like, I still do this here and there.

And like, it's OK, because there's so many members, especially being like a younger girl in this group. I can't even count on a hand how many people I know personally that don't follow everything to a perfect tee, but they like to pretend and act like they do. And I think it's cool to just like be open and be like, yeah, like I messed up and like, that's OK. Yeah, I feel like we're the perfect group for it's cool to just be open and be like, yeah, I messed up and that's okay. Yeah, I feel like we're the perfect group for it because we have no shame and no boundaries.

And so we're willing to have those uncomfortable, we're willing to have those uncomfortable conversations that most people won't. Like being a nervous shitter. Yeah. Oh yeah, we're both nervous shitter. We're like, oh shit. She's like, I got the shame.

I'm like, son-in-law, are you talking to me? I'm like, why are you looking at me? You know what I do my free time. I'm like, who are you talking to? I'm like, why are you looking at me? You know what I do my free time. I'm like, oh, here we go. You very much opened up. We are the nervous hitters of the group. Always. Before we fly, we're both in the stomach. I'm like, my stomach hurts so bad.

We're going to watch this show and be like, what did we do? This is what I hate. Them? No, no, no. This is what I hate. Just like not. Them? No, no, no, no. You're like, this is what I hate. No, just the fact that we haven't watched that. And like, we don't know what's going on. No, why are you looking at me?

How do you know that? I literally show people pictures of like parasites. I was on Wikipedia. I know it's kind of. Wikipedia. I'm a kid. They move quick. They move quick these days.

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It seems to be extra amplified on this show. Who are we looking at? Uh. Uh. Jen, you're up. Unrelated. Well, before we get to that, I was fascinated just,

you guys are very open about just your faith and your lives. Was there a lot of nerves going in about how you would be received by your community? Because you guys do open up a lot of lights and you shine a lot of lights on your community and I have to imagine there might be people in your community who might not appreciate that

and would prefer to live a life where it's like, let's not. Out of sight, out of mind. Out of sight, out of mind, let's pretend this is how it is even if in reality it's like this. How do you deal with that? Personally, not so much opening up and shining a light, but more so how it was going to be edited and portrayed. Because there was a few things like walking in the blue coats

in front of our sacred temple. Those things where we're like, how's that going to look? But also, we didn't realize while filming. That intro is cool. It's an absolute sleight. It's like, yeah. I did not feel that in the moment when we were holding hands.

I was like, this is cultish. No, it was giving handmaiden's tale. I was like, are we getting a rainbow? Kind of. Kind of. But more so from our community, because there's people that are outside that are like, where are we getting both? Kind of. Kind of. It's almost like shh. But more so from our community, because there's people that are outside that are like, that's sick. But then there's things within the church and things that we participate in the temple

that are really sacred and that we hold very seriously into a high standard that we're like, crap, what are they going to think? So there was a few of those moments. What was the reaction from your parents, the people who are who raised you in this community? Like Jen, what you know what did Zach's parents say? What did your mom have to say? No, my parents were obsessed with the idea. They were like, you're gonna be the next Kardashian. No, my parents were all on board. As for Zach's family, they were very worried just of how they were gonna portray us.

Yeah, it's a... They're on board now. They're stoked. But they're on board now, for sure, yes. Do they know what's coming? No, I don't even know what's coming. They're not gonna be stoked in three days. Are they really on board?

I was joking. We are being sarcastic. Well, let's just be real. There is several scenes where a lot of people in this room had a lot of very strong opinions about your relationship with Zach. Yes, which I don't blame them. We did.

Yeah, either do I. Us? And again, I know what it's like to be on reality TV, I know what it's like to not be in love with the edit, but it is hard, I can't not be in love with the edit, but it is hard. I can't imagine Zach blaming it on the edit, so to speak. No, it was real. Everything that happened was for the most part real.

Him wanting to come to Vegas was not real. I convinced him to go to Vegas, and he did not wanna be a part of that, but then he was put in a very tough situation, and true colors. What do you mean he was put into a tough situation? Oh, just being in Vegas and being a part of that. The motorcycle man?

No, it wasn't as more the gambling side of things. Oh, are you talking about that? I don't know what's shown, so that's what's really hard because I'm speaking just off of my experience. Well, I mean, what was shown is that it sounds like Zach may have a bit of a gambling problem. Oh, yeah, okay. You guys went to Vegas. Yes.

And then he used your money. Yes, that's right. To gamble. Yeah. All night. All night long. Oh, all night. And then you went,

I think the scene that we saw was incredibly relatable for a lot of women, regardless if you're Mormon or not. To be put in a situation where you're trying to be a good friend, maybe you find yourself in a situation that feels compromising, but you're doing everything you should and can do to protect your relationship, and then your partner finds out what's going on and doesn't give a fuck about what they're doing, doesn't look in the mirror, doesn't ask themselves,

could I be doing something differently or wrong? And then, well, I even hate how crazy this word is misused in society, but gaslights the fuck out of you. And to thinking that you did something wrong and then to see you cry the way you were, I think it was hard to watch because it just, again, I mean, now he was watching it and being like, this reminds me of my ex-boyfriend, you know,

it's just like. You said that too, Jesse. It triggered me for my divorce. I think Jesse out of anyone was, she was very triggered. It is, it's just very, it's tough to watch. So yeah, I am curious where you guys are at now. And then it was even tougher to watch when a lot of the women speculated

that you would come back and be like, everything's fine, we talked it out, we're all good now. In reality, we all know that maybe you weren't really good yet, but like, how do you guys work through that? You know what, that's one of my toxic traits. And to be honest, just my toxic trait being that I like to pretend like everything's okay, and I don't like to just acknowledge a lot of things

because it's just easier for me to just be like, yeah, no, everything's okay, we're okay. But that's why, honestly, being on the show is one of the greatest things that happened to our relationship because it actually made me take a step back and look at our relationship for what it was. And at the time, I mean, you guys saw clearly our relationship was not healthy and there are a lot of things happening that I didn't even realize.

And it wasn't till like, you know, being surrounded by this group of girls that I realized, wait, there are things that actually do need to change in our relationship and wait, no, I'm not the one in the wrong here. And throughout the show, I definitely did feel like that. And I put a lot of that baggage on me. But yeah, after the show, I'll be honest. Yeah, I'll be completely honest.

There was like a few moments where I was like, I don't know if I want to be in this relationship anymore. No woman deserves to be spoken to that way, but especially your wife and the mother of your children. And yeah, we definitely had to go to therapy. And for him, he also had to take a hard look in the mirror and ask himself, like, what do I need to change about myself?

And I mean, whether people believe it or not, like I do believe that he is changing and we've been doing nonstop therapy since like the show ended. And like for me, a lot of truth came out during that time. And I won't speak about it because it's his own personal story and things that happened to him when he was younger. But that truth came out after the show as well.

And now obviously our relationship isn't perfect. And now that he's in med school, it's definitely gonna look like this for a long time. But at least I know like where I stand. And if I need to, I have the option of walking away. I'm not walking away right now because I do love him and there is a side that people haven't seen. And I truly believe he's an amazing person

and maybe he didn't take accountability on the show, but he definitely did after. And yeah, that's kind of where we're at, but I'm actually grateful because there is this push in the LDS culture to look perfect. And that includes your relationship, your marriage, your family. So many people in the church struggle,

just families in general struggle. And a lot of people hide that, and I don't want to hide that. I wanna talk openly about my relationship and how we struggled, because no relationship is perfect. No marriage is perfect. And for me, this is a really tough topic. I mean, we're talking about gambling,

we're talking about gaslighting and all the, you know. Well, also in your situation, how it comes across, and I don't know if it's accurate, but it also, like, gender roles. Like, in terms of like- Oh, for sure. Is portrayed as if your relationship is very old school, very conservative, very kind of set in the old ways

of the church where Zach has afforded a lot of double standards and privileges and rights that seemingly you don't have in your relationship. Was that accurate, is it still accurate, and is that something you guys are working on? There is definitely a lot of that happening. Again, I it still accurate, and is that something you guys are working on? Well, the funny thing is there was definitely a lot of that happening. Again, I didn't realize, because sometimes, well, especially for me, I got married at 20.

I was so young. I didn't really know what I wanted. I didn't know, like, yeah, I just didn't know what I needed as well. And yeah, in the church, I definitely think traditionally, most marriages are, Yeah, in the church, I definitely think traditionally, most marriages are, there are somewhat, and maybe you guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but I do see a lot of gender roles just within the church.

But, and I honestly started that in my faith because of that. Because I'm like, wait, if they're pushing this, I don't wanna be a part of this because I want an equal partnership. And that's, my parents are the perfect example of that, because I'm like, wait, if they're pushing this, I don't want to be a part of this because I want an equal partnership. And that's my parents are the perfect example of that. Like my parents have a perfect like equal partnership. Yeah, they fight, but like, they've always, you know, they've never there's never been general. So I never was taught that. But I'm like, wait, is the church teaching this? And it wasn't till I took a step back and actually read the doctrine of what the church teaches that we don't actually believe that that's just what's been culturally

pushed on us and According to the doctrine we believe that we're we are equal and that if there's any Abuse Happening like you will be accountable in the afterlife for that and that is literally written in the family proclamation That is what we believe in. Do a lot of people follow that? I don't think so. And I think it's because the culture gets mixed in

with the actual doctrine of what we get taught and then people get mixed. But women can't hold a priesthood, right? No, we do. Actually, I can't really say these things. No, you can't get too deep into it. Actually, I was talking to my mom about it yesterday. She's like, actually you can, like in certain situations,

you can get blessings. If you go to the temple and that's you'll realize it's... It's a whole topic. You're not worthy enough. I'm not worthy to hear these things. Of course you're not. You're not going to learn in the temple. It's not secret, it's sacred.

You don't talk about the sign of the temple, okay? It's a little secret. Yeah. What is that? Why is that? It's not secret, it's sacred. It's not secret, it's sacred. It's a little secret. What is that? Why is that? It's not secret, it's sacred. It's just things that you're just taught that like once you go through, there's just certain practices that you only discuss in the temple. Okay. Well during that whole fight with Zach,

he threw a couple stones at your friends and their relationship. Verbal, that's- Yeah. Not physical stones. Be clear. I don't remember this. We're talking about church and Old Testament church. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Verbal stones. Verbal stones, yes. Yeah, we remember. We know. I was there the night that those texts were sent and that was pretty heavy. You woke me up. You woke us up at 2 a.m. She's like, guess what guys? And we're just like, Jesus, go home. I was shook the night that those texts were sent. That was pretty heavy. You woke me up. You woke us up at 2 a.m.

She's like, guess what guys? And you're just like, I was shook to my core. I couldn't believe what I was reading. I didn't know if it was like, he was playing into a role or like, that's what I was hoping for. I was like, please dear God,

let this man be reading a script and like texting a script. Someone who knows that how reality TV is made. And I'm curious what you ladies think amongst each other, but there's always, as soon as you get mic'd and cameras go on, people sometimes play a role they think they should play. Oh, 100% sure. As opposed to just being themselves.

But the techs were sent off camera. Yeah, they were. So it was like nighttime, pretty insidious. I didn't know if cameras were at his hotel though. I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. It was like, please dear God, I'm about to beat this man. Yeah. Please say that this is coming from a producer or something.

It wasn't. What did he say about you? Unfortunately. She's divorced. It was accurate. Divorced and married to a 50 year old. Yeah. I'm like, that's a flex.

What are you talking about? Yeah. No, my favorite. You're like, green flag. Like, what are you talking about? No, my favorite. Green flag. Like, try harder. Yeah, try harder. No, my favorite is, he's like, putting divorce down while threatening divorce.

I'm like, yeah. Yeah, yeah, he was, he kept saying that while also saying, I'm gonna divorce you for being at this, this Chippendale show. And then, she wasn't at the show. She didn't even go to the show. Yeah. She didn't even want to.

She literally left. He needs you. Jesse, he spread a rumor. He said that you stepped out on your marriage. Oh yeah, I forgot about that. I didn't know that. Did he say that in the text? He said you had an affair.

On my old husband or my new husband? You knew about the rumor. This wasn't news. This was, yeah. This was something that you were like. Oh, okay, sorry. I thought you were saying like he talked about it. We're not telling you something you had an address on.

You're like, you knew about it. Sorry. So yes, he said that there was a rumor about me and my past relationship. Yes. Yes, yeah. I didn't know he had like even heard about that, but it's just Reddit stuff. Like, people talk in our town and that's a rumor that's out there. Everybody's an actor. Where did he get all of his information?

Is Zach on Reddit? He's a troll. He's on Reddit all night. I haven't seen him. He's the Redditor. He's the Redditor. Have you guys made up with Zach? No.

No. Not made up, but I feel like we're cordial when we see him. I think on the show I said I never wanna be in the room with him. We never talked about the situation with him again, but we've been here this weekend, so. I think ultimately we want Jen to be happy and if that's with Zach, then that's with

Zach, but I don't think any of us would keep our mouths shut if we saw her getting treated poorly again. Absolutely. Yeah. I would definitely say something. You're here. Don't hurt my girl. He definitely looks the part of a villain with the whole blonde, long hair.

The man, Ben. The man, Ben. The Mormon boy. The Mormon boy. He looks better now. He's cut his hair. He's cut his hair. That bun was long. He's bun. The Mormon boy. The man bun. The Mormon boy. He looks better now, he's cut his hair. He's cut his hair. That bun was long.

He's cut his hair? Thank God. Yeah, that hair was not in. You needed to just cut that thing off in your sleeping. Just kidding. Well, I mean. He was going through something. Yeah, he was definitely going through a lot.

We also did, in fairness to your husband, we only did saw glimpses of him. The glimpses we did see, obviously not flattering, but it is only just a fraction, I'm sure, of everything. That being said, you ladies came together. You decided to make this show. What conversations did you have with your partners? Because it kind of feels like they didn't really get the okay

of what was really discussed, and certainly they're not in the edit room. So what conversations did you have with your partners going into the show? What conversations have you had with your partners since recording? And what conversations have you had with your partners now that we're about to have this drop?

Because every once in a while, you guys bring in your husbands into the conversations and that must at times be difficult to deal with. I just wanna see what they're talking about. Do they have any scenes of just the husbands talking? I feel like our husbands aren't even in it. They're not in it much, to be clear. Listen, it is tough when you're not in it at all,

and every once your name gets thrown in as a part of a conversation that you technically didn't really sign up for. Or have they signed up for it being kind of full participants and I think if we're making money I'm like I don't think they have anything to say my husband so go with the flow I could literally do anything and he won't like he just is super supportive so I think the problem is we went into the show not having those conversations we just all were like amazing and then real

situations happened on camera and we didn't know how to navigate that. So it just happened and they were unprepared. Well, I feel like as a group, we were in our group chat saying, hey, make sure you talk to your husbands about boundaries. I feel like we had those conversations a lot. Yeah, I had one conversation. But then some boundaries were just crossed

as they were happening because you're put in these really unique one-off situations that you don't know is a boundary until you cross it. And then you just have that conversation. We don't want to put you on the spot because we just did. Thanks for being such a good support. But like, are any of you worried about, I'm just gonna keep it real.

Nellie and I often get asked from time to time, some production company reach out, be like, have you guys ever thought about putting your entire lives on? And I'm like, absolutely. I love my wife way too much. I'm just like, you really have to be giving to be, you guys have to be. Like, congratulations, your show's awesome.

We loved it, we burned through it all weekend, we were tapped in, it was great, it was also dramatic. And that can cause problems in your relationships. Do any of you have a fear of surviving? No. How is Mom Top gonna survive this? I mean, I think I'm more so about our friendships, but my relationship specifically, I know.

I think when you have a strong relationship and you're not exploiting it at times, then you won't have those issues. Like, I feel like you probably never really saw, like, at least our husbands on the show. No, my husband doesn't give a shit. He doesn't wanna be on camera ever. Actually, to your point, I can't even visualize

what they look like. Yeah, exactly. And like, they were, my husband was like, I'll be in whenever you need, like, you just go with the flow. But like, I wasn't like, let's bring him in, let's bring up this issue because- Or like, hey, we're having a fight right now, come film it. Yeah need like, you just go with the flow. But like, I wasn't like, let's bring him in. Let's bring up this issue because like, Hey, we're not, we're having a fight

right now. Come film it. Like, I know none of that. My husband is not even in my tech talks. You wouldn't even know I'm married from looking at all my stuff. It doesn't even like being in anything. What? Give me the money trend was the first time I've seen Jay speak in a tech talk before. Jay has a personality. You guys, he's actually really funny. He actually is. My husband was like, I'm so down to do anything. Like he's a very open book.

Of course. I don't want to mess with our relationship. He learned from seeing. And to be honest, we're still seeing to this day, fallout from filming with her relationship with Taylor's, with Whitney and Connors, it's still affecting them. So my husband's like, I love you, I'm down, but this is staying solid.

Jordan is the one who made the call to Whitney's, to Connors about the drama in Vegas. He did, yeah. Of course. but this is staying solid. Jordan is the one who made the call to Whitney's, to Connor about the drama in Vegas. Of course, he's a little posture. He loves to stir the pot and churn that butter. You need to get the scenes going forward. We're making it to the final there. This podcast is sponsored by Daily Look,

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sounded like swinging to me. I think it started as soft. It's cause it wasn't like actual intercourse, I guess, is why it's soft swinging. They would do like first base and second base, but they just want it like straight up pop sound. Regardless. Remember they were about to,

and then her husband was like, what are we doing? Regardless. It's the same font as soaking, honestly. Which we, yeah. Soaking. Anyone ever try that? No. It's the same font as soaking, honestly. Which we, yeah. Soaking. Anyone ever try that? Docking.

Didn't do that. No. Is that the same as derping? No. What is that? Derping is dry humping with your clothes on. That's what you do in high school when you're Mormon. It's like a BYU thing.

Dry humping with your clothes on is called high school. Yeah, that's what people do at BYU. You guys aren't that special, Mormons. But it's after high school, David. No, but you know the soaking. You put it in, have someone jump on the bed. Someone actually jumps on the bed. That's docking.

Oh, docking? No. Docking is just putting it in. There's different variations. One is that you just stick it in, stay in, and then you pull it out, you don't move. Another one, next level, is that you have someone come jump on your bed so that you're not actually

the one making the thrust. And the premise is, if you're not actually thrusting the hips and having sex. Yeah. Apparently. They forgot that it's just genitals touching and then you're having sex, you know? There's a lot of BYU slang to get around the rules. There's like soaking, docking, gazing, derping.

Yeah, there's a lot of things. We should have done that instead. Well, the BYU honor code, you know about that, right? No. Oh my gosh. It's major. It's huge. Nick would be kicked out because of his beard. Yeah. What? Well the BYU honor code you know about that right? No Nick would be kicked out because of his beard. Yeah. Why major that couldn't have long hair? I didn't know that I'm like if you have a boy over to your dorm The door has to be open and you have to have like your feet on the ground

So they can't sit on the bed like with your feet dangling off like you have to have feet on the ground like stuff Like oh like major athletes were getting kicked off the team, scholarships lost from like messing up with a girl. With people telling each other? For sure. I mean, I feel like my husband was on the BYU football team and he's like, yeah, there was a bit of a pact, you know? But it's just such double standards. Like he's just like, you see like the double standard,

especially being an athlete, cause you see people getting away with things cause they are an athlete. Okay. And then you see other people not. I will say from being an athlete at a BYU, the athletes will get away with more, right? Football will get away with the most

because they're generating revenue for the school, right? So they're the golden children of the school. So they're gonna get away with a lot more than someone who's like on a swim team, on a tennis team like me or whatever because they're making money for the school. Demi, what is the criticism around your age gap as someone who gets, I'm sure, the thing?

Everyone just thinks that I'm not making a decision to be with my husband. That's, yeah. They're like, oh my God, you literally can't speak, you can't do anything, he's grooming you, you're in the womb still, you're still a toddler, like a baby. Exactly, yeah.

With grown women. A lot of that, of just like they think that it's inappropriate and that I'm not choosing to be in a relationship with him and that I somehow need to be saved. I get a lot of that, yeah. Wow. Yeah, which is like the complete opposite

because they're literally almost too obsessed with each other, they can't go apart for like two minutes. Yeah. Who it's. Yeah, so it's wild. Do you get that as well? Oh yeah, I got like child bride. I got, yeah.

You've got it all. Yeah, a lot of it. It's crazy. I did not expect that at all. It's the internet, you know. Yeah. You got married at 20, and you originally got married.

20. 20. 23. 23. 18. 18. 22. 22. 19. 19. 18. 22. 22.

19. 19. I mean, and obviously we've discussed the divorce, but clearly I think the fascination with the swinging scandal is here you have a religion seemingly not forcing, but pressuring people into very early relationships. You know, long before we see, especially in 2024,

it's just like, what are we, I don't even know what I wanna do with my life. I'm supposed to get married. If you're not swinging and assuming you're in a good relationship, how do you keep the relationship hot and spicy and fun and new and interesting? Dancing.

Don't have kids right away. Ketamine. Ketamine. Dress. It has been like the biggest tool that I've used to strengthen my relationship. Next level, everyone I talk to, I'm gonna say it anyway. Ketamine. Ketamine. Dreadless. Ketamine. It has been like the biggest tool that I've used to strengthen my relationship. Next level. Everyone I talk to, I'm like,

they're like, we're kind of struggling. Things are getting a little bit like dull. Ketamine. Go do ketamine with your spouse. Okay, can you say more? What? Yeah, please. So I'm not talking poppin' special K.

Administered by a doctor. Okay. Through an IV. Is this like a microdosing situation? Yeah, it's microdosing. Is it like a horse tranquilizer? They use it for... Disclaimer, we're not doctors here.

Don't know what the fuck you want listening, but anyways, Demi. Demi is always the controversial one. The Mormon hippie. My husband literally was like, are you with Demi? He's like, can you ask her about ketamine? Or he was saying like DMT or something. They always come to me for all these kinds of questions. For all the drugs.

No, it's like a, it's the safest form of anesthesia. They use it on kids, animals, small animals. And what does it do? It takes you out of your conscious state and you're able to kind of let down your, like really just diminish your pride, let down all the walls, and be able to like speak heart to heart. Like I've never had deeper conversations in my entire life. Is it used in therapy?

Yeah, yeah. Did you do it with the therapist in the room one time or someone? Yeah, I've done it. I prefer to do it with Brett. Like we, I have him in the room, he's not on ketamine. I am on ketamine and we kind of like talk through our stuff. She's done it. It's been so interesting,

because Zimmy tells me about her experiences with it, she's like, I found out why I got divorced, I'm a whole new person. I'm like, I was like a cartoon character floating in the clouds. There was that too. I was an avatar, like with a tail. You need to do more, you need to do more,

you need to get deeper, you're protecting yourself. It was a good time though, I like was so happy after I went to Cheesecake, Had a little sexy time after. I was in a great mood. Yeah, see, that's good. It's good for your sex life. It was actually good. It does spice up your sex life for sure.

I definitely wanna do it. Okay, so ketamine is one option. One option is drugs. What else? Toys. Oh yes, we did get introduced to some toys on the show. Oh yeah. Are you as empowered as Whitney when you used toys?

Oh, I was like, oh, she's not touched about it. There's a scene where she wants to do an ad and she just says how empowered she is 50 fucking times. Oh, no. Do you guys have some feelings about Whitney? I'm feeling some hustle again. The show does not paint her in the best. She gives Regina George.

That's true. She does give Regina George. She gives like must be leader of the group, but also like to get close to Michaela, she's gonna like tell Michaela that everyone else in the group talks shit about her and she's the only one who never has to like, you know, kind of was the vibe she was giving.

Preach into the choir. So she's a manipulator. We only saw a show. We don't know her. We don't know her. She could be lovely. But she comes across to me as an energy vampire. Yeah.

There you go. You guys have read it right. That's all you need to say. I can picture Whitney coming to you. You barely know her. Maybe you just met. It's your first week and hanging out. And she'll be like, eventually,

if you need to bury a body, I'll help you. And you're thinking, we just met. That's so true. And she only says that because what she wants to know is if you would actually help her bury a body. That's the vibe I get from Whitney. That is really good. I'm impressed. Nail on the head.

Right there. Yeah. It's a lot of what feels like tests. You know, it's a lot of like, well, I did this to see if anyone would react and no one reacted. I left the group chat for the fifth time and no one chased me this time. I was like, what is that? I don't like also, like, Elephant in the Room, she's the only one not in the room.

Yeah. But she's also here. And then I hear she was blaming it on being pregnant, but like she's twice. She's always the victim. There's always an excuse. Self-serving. Why isn't she here? Do we know?

I don't know. I haven't talked to her in months. I think she was having isn't she here? Do we know? I don't know. I haven't talked to her in months. I think she was having some hard time with press that we did last week with certain questions. I'm not speaking for her, but that's my assumption and why she didn't wanna do any of that. I think Whitney genuinely doesn't realize

she is quote unquote the villain. I think she was surprised to find that out during our media tour. Well, I was surprised to find out from Taylor that it was in fact Whitney who reached out to Taylor after her arrest in that terrible situation. But I don't think that was a genuine thing. Listening more, I thought to myself,

well, that seemed nice, but did Whitney reach out to Taylor because deep down she thought I'll bring in Taylor and then Taylor will be the villain of our season. You're good. And I won't be the villain of the season. It's like he was there. You are good. Yeah, because the first half of our filming, she was ragging on Taylor

and was trying to paint her in this light, and then all of a sudden it kind of switched, and I don't think she realized she kind of created that. Yeah. Spot on, Nick. Where do we stand with Whitney today? Well, this room probably speaks for that. She's not here.

Well, there's a couple people. I was gonna say Macy, you're closest with her. Yeah, Macy, you're close with her. We're still friends. But we're not as close as we were, obviously, as you saw probably on the show with certain things that happened. Yeah, she really liked to hang in there. Yeah, she did. So that was kind of disappointing because I'm like, I literally backed you up through everything, like the whole time.

And it was like, I was in a position where I was like in between two groups and it was like the worst feeling. And then at the end of the day, the only thing you could have done to support me was to show up to my event or even send me a text or a call, but she did nothing. She posted an Instagram story. She ain't calling me, she ain't texting me. Yeah, her husband texted my husband, say, tell me, say congrats.

Congrats on the launch. Why couldn't you text me? Especially because that is her big thing of like reaching out to people. And that's the thing, she's clearly too smart to be stupid. My husband always says, you guys were playing checkers and she was playing chess. Like he thinks that she's calculated,

but I can't figure it out. I'm like, is this how she is or was it a plan? No, I think she knows what she's doing to an extent. It's not that she's smarter than us, but I don't think that's what you're saying. Yeah, I'm not saying she's smart, but she's not stupid us, but I don't think that's what you're saying. Yeah, I'm not saying she's smart, but she's not stupid, and so I don't think you can blame her behavior

on not knowing better. No, she knows better. She knows what she's doing. She does, though. I truly think she's just delusional. No, she's a grown woman. You have to have common sense eventually check in. She can't just keep making excuses for poor behavior.

I mean, I haven't met her, but I've met people like her. I think two things can be true. I think she can be smart and calculated and self-aware, and I think she can be delusional about how it all comes across. Yes, okay, I agree. She thought she was gonna be the victim, I think. Like, we all turned on her, we're mean girls,

and I don't think she realized the narrative was maybe the other way. Well, yeah, because also, like, again, she says, like, I didn't do anything. Meanwhile, she's planting seeds, talking shit, everything's one-on-one, and she's all expecting it to come together. Okay, but doesn't the villain always come out on top?

That's why I feel like she is playing chess in the sense that I feel like she almost wanted the villain. No, she didn't. If she's crying in every single interview that calls her the villain, I don't know. Then why does she keep coming back and doing the same thing, though? Well, we went on a podcast. She wants to be in control So she's like, oh they think I'm the villain. Okay, I want to be a control situation. So yeah, I'm the villain

Oh, I was gonna say we went on a podcast together last time I was in LA a few weeks ago and this guy I was like, oh, I thought Taylor was gonna be the villain at the start of the show and then it turned out She wasn't and Whitney's like well who was it and he's like didn't say anything And I was like, it's you Whitney. And she was like shocked and she was like upset. Like she's been really upset to know that she's the villain. So I don't think she's an actress. You think she's a facade?

Well I'll tell you right now, if she's that smart, the only way it's a facade, well maybe she just doesn't realize, but do you think she's done with you all? No, I think she's. No, she is eating up the spotlight. Because like the villain comes out on top in the long game Exactly, and we've seen enough people go through reality TV to know that that's why I'm saying guys. Come on. Give her some credit

She knows what she's doing. She knows exactly what she's doing and she's going in to be an actress You think she's not good at doing that and like playing the part. She's not she is well She's been reacting the past like two weeks since the show trailer came out. She's been loving the attention. She's been so active on social media, which she wasn't for a while. She's loving the attention. I'll die on that hill. This was all premeditated.

She definitely doesn't think you guys can survive without her mom talk. Yeah, we would be happy with her. Our real friend group, we forget she's a part of it. Genuinely, we forget she's like on the show. I do. Jump scare every time she shows up to content days. I'm like, woo.

You really hate her. I don't hate her, I don't respect the inconsistency. That scares me. That behavior scares me. And the lack of accountability and like. Yeah, and acting like, huh? People don't want me in the group chat. You left the group chat.

Multiple times. What do you mean? You want us to chase you. Yeah, I'm not gonna play the game. It's so grade school to me. I don't respect her. I don't dislike her. I don't have that much energy to give to her. I don't respect her process. And she hasn't apologized to anybody. No, is that what it would take? Like, what would it take? Oh, no, I would never be friends with her again. Like, really, because I was the best of friends with her and Macy. And so I would never never What do you feel like she did to you? I feel like she could apologize, but I don't think I would ever be the same friends. Like I could be cordial.

Now I'm not even really cordial. That's as, it says you don't believe that she'll change. Oh no. I know she won't change. Basically. You've been quiet. I know you have feelings you just expressed for Whitney, but if we have Whitney,

if these ladies have Whitney wrong, how would they have her wrong? I mean, I don't know if she would have done all of what you're saying. I don't know. I think it's because I always like to believe that people have good intentions. I love to give everyone the benefit of the doubt,

and that's kind of probably my fault to a T. And so in my head, I'm like, no, I know Whitney. I don't think she would do that. I think that she did certain things for the plot, and we started filming, it backfired, and then she was like, oh shit. And then she was stuck in this thing and then she was like, everyone's being mean. And so, I mean, I did call her out multiple times, even off camera being like, hey, you're being really impulsive. You did this. You knew you're going to have backlash for this.

And then she manipulated her by saying, oh my gosh, you're so right. Yeah, you're right. I want to change this. And then does the same thing over again. Does exactly the same thing. Like patterns show. Macy, I think you're amazing, but we also need to remember that we saw these patterns before even filming. Yeah, no She did it all the time remember she taught crap about me and then a week later text me and invite me to things with you Guys she does it all the time All the time and then is like like when we were coming to California She's like no we don't have to invite Taylor and then she's like oh guys

I invited Taylor just cuz she wants to be be the one that's in control of every situation and be that person that's like, oh Whitney's my number one. I would love to see Nick talk to her because I think you could really get a feel. We would have loved to have her, but it is shady that she's in LA and she is not here and she's clearly separating herself from y'all. She has a plan, don't know what it is,

but she clearly has one. Yeah, she does. We're ready though for her. She has a plan don't know what it is, but she clearly has one Yeah, she does we're ready though for her. It's a self-serving plan. I'm like I want to be involved in this Macy's too nice, and I love her so much, but I'm like what do you have to hold on to in your I don't know I'm just a loyal friend even if we're like not good friends anymore. You should try not to talk shit on that That's a good quality. If someone really crosses me then they're like dead I know but you said that said that it would be over if she didn't come to your event and then she didn't come to your event.

But we're not like good friends anymore though. I'm not like chatting her up. But you still gave her the benefit of the doubt. And defend her. She leaves you at the airport in California and hops on the plane without you. Wait, what happened? She literally left you, Macy.

That was two weeks ago. She left you? In the airport, yeah. So we had a flight, we were doing press and then we got to the airport and I had TSA pre, so she was like, oh, I'm going to get in line because I don't have it. And I went to check my bag, but we only had 40 minutes to the plane took off. So like, you can't get on, like you can't check your bag.

And so I told her and she's like, oh, I'm still going to try to get on. And I was like, she's cutting people in the security line. Yeah. And so I guess she like, cause I was like, oh, we could just stay in LA together, have another day here, like go shop, like do something fun. And she was like, oh, I'm gonna try to get on. So she just got on and left me and I was stuck at LAX for seven hours.

Cause I would have just stayed the night and went to a hotel to have a fun day. But then I had to stay at the airport cause I'm like, who am I gonna hang out with? I was a little salty. I just wanna say, not a single one of these women in the room would do the same thing. But I wouldn't do it to anyone in here.

So that's why I was like, that's kind of shitty. But I told her about it in an interview and she was like, oh, I didn't know. I was like, how would you not know? Like you literally left me. She does, she knows. She's not used to being queen bee. I think she's just kind of right now,

especially she's kind of in her own little world. She's pregnant, she's really focused on her family and stuff, that's good, but I don't think she's really aware of anyone. She doesn't have anything else, any more going on than the rest of us. She's not that important in her home state. I've never seen a situation where,

I mean obviously her situation with her husband was a very difficult story to tell. She told it. And then I've never seen a situation where someone was upset that someone else took the spotlight off a terrible situation. Or someone was getting more grace from the internet on their situation.

Where it's like Taylor's just like, yeah I got this thing going on. And then, yeah, it's like Whitney. Meanwhile, all of y'all were like shifted the, because it could have gone pretty bad. You could have been very judgmental of Whitney's husband, critical. We love Connor.

I mean, you did not give Connor the same treatment you gave Zach, you know what I'm saying? I felt, no, seriously, also, I'll just say, that was a hard moment as all these ladies, whether I agree with them or not, were coming at you, being like your husband's a fucking narcissist, by the way, do you think he's a narcissist? I think he does have some narcissistic traits.

Okay, that's a very honest thing to say. Anyways, hard moment for you to take that beating, and yet you women could have done that with Connor. She would have loved that. And she was like mad that you guys didn't, and I thought that was just really a bizarre behavior. We have more context with how Whitney's been, and it was a different situation.

Whitney's hard to deal with. She's very hard to deal with, and I'm not condoning what Connor did, like that was wrong, but such a different situation. And I think the approach with Connor was different. Like he owned up to things. I'm not saying that Zach didn't, but the way he handled the situation

was very much different than like- Taking accountability. Yes, very like he was very upset, very sad, very humble. Like very like, you know, it was just a different situation. I mean, it was like episode two and he's out there just, I don't even know this guy and he's just- Laying it all out there. What did my husband say last night to me? My husband was like if I was married to Whitney

I would still have tinder and not delete it. I was like, oh my god Yeah Jordan said that Except there is that one there was that one scene when he came in with like a slicked hair in the gull chain Oh, remember that? And I was like is he back on tinder? He's back on tinder Hey he had a mullet at dinner last night. So maybe he's back on No, we love Colin He's a on Tinder. He's back. Hey, he had a mullet at dinner last night, so maybe he's back on.

No, we love Colin. We do love Colin. He's a really good guy. He's a really good guy. I only have one last question when it comes to Whitney, we can move on. Where does she get her style inspiration from? Lord knows.

Ballerina pioneers. And the pioneers, our ancestors. Can we talk about the women? No, he has. Flip flops, she needs to throw those things away and burn them. No, Whitney has a new vibe every six months. So this was her vibe during filming.

Before it, it was like slutty 90s. Like, she has a new personality every six months. But listen, everyone's trying to figure out their own style. I don't think it matters. Here she goes. But she hasn't always had the best style. We all change it up. But there was one time we went to film,

she was wearing kind of like a croc shoe. She was like, should I wear the strawberry fuzzy socks? I was like, please don't. It was the first day of filming. It was the first day. I'm the one, I was wearing kind of like a croc shoe. She was like, should I wear the strawberry fuzzy socks? I was like, please don't. It was the first day of filming. It was the first day. I'm the one, I'm able to tell her, so I'm like, don't wear those shoes, please.

Like, don't do that. And she'll usually listen. That day she didn't, but I think that got cut anyways. Maybe this is part of her plan. Maybe she just wants you all getting in a room talking shit, and she could be like, listen, they're all mean girls. She's not that smart.

She's really not. I think she is. She just digs herself holes and doesn't know how to get out. And then at the end of the day, she's like, wants to be in control controlled the situation is like, oh, yeah I did it's not that it takes intelligence to be a villain though. Like it doesn't take that much intelligence I think that's just how she is. I think that's just I know Intention to be the villain. No, no, I don't think it was her intention was to be the queen of mom talking for everyone

To love her and be everyone's number one. It was not to be the villain agreed But very quickly when things shifted, I think it was like, especially when we were all talking about how that's who rises to the top. We did talk about it. And then that's kind of how it played out. When you say we talked about it. Well, before leading into we would just, you know,

we did our research on reality TV stars and people talking about it. And Jesse would send us videos of people who had been on like selling sunsets and podcasts and stuff and they're talking about how being the villain, you are more recognizable. And I said like, we need to avoid this, we need to stick together, and I think she took it and was like, ooh.

If you're the villain, you're one of the main characters. Okay, I have a question for you. In your reality TV experience, were you ever kind of like the villain? I guess. What was your experience with that? Did you go into that intentionally trying? No.

I mean, being on The Bachelor and a competition love story is very different than what you ladies did. I definitely wasn't trying. It wasn't a fun experience. I'm grateful that I started out that way because it gave me a lot of perspective and a lot of the mental health struggles a lot of my peers have often come from coming

onto the scene as a star. They get a lot of attention, they get a lot of my peers have often come from coming onto the scene as a star, they get a lot of attention, they get a lot of love, and then eventually fans get bored and they find something to criticize you with. And I came into everyone fucking hating me. So as soon as I got a little bit of love, I was like, hell yeah! You know, it's just like.

So it gave me a little perspective, but it wasn't fun. And I don't, if I had to guess, not knowing Whitney, that I don't think she planned it. She doesn't strike me as someone who's prepared to take that type of heat. She could barely take it from y'all. I think she's smart enough to maybe try to make the most of it going forward.

I doubt she went in being like, I think she thought she was gonna make Taylor the villain. Yes, I agree. And it didn't work out for her. I could see that starting out that way, but I think when it turned, she leaned into it. I should say, I should play around. It's just crazy to think that Whitney was the one

who reached out to Taylor to hear other side of the story, only for us to watch the beginning where it's like Whitney being like, fuck Taylor! Yeah, yeah. Yeah, literally. It's just, it seemed like, oh, my fuck, okay. Well, she came in with an agenda.

Like our first scene filming with Whitney as a group, she was like, oh, my fuck, okay. Well, she came in with an agenda. Like our first scene filming with Whitney as a group, she was like, fuck this, fuck that, Taylor sucks. And I was like, what? Like it felt like she had that planned for sure. But I think she had resentment for Taylor. I think like she- But for what? Like her story didn't even-

Again, it came to the attention thing. And it's funny, cause I'm friends with Whitney and Taylor. And when Whitney didn't like Taylor, I was like also friends with Taylor so I was like you don't like her but there's no real reason I was like you're resenting her for the fact that she talked about her Connor thing when she interrupted the miscarriage right and then there was also the other thing of her just like

getting more attention right and Whitney or Taylor gets more attention I think it was more of a jealousy resentment thing than anything and once they finally talk it was like oh I love Taylor which I was like, I told you. I told you. I mean, I would never wish hate on Whitney. I think this might be a hard run for her, just from my experience with the internet and how the internet works.

Macy, I do hate that she hasn't been a good friend to you and you continue to still be a great friend to her. Is that just who you are as a person? You're just a ride or die no matter what? I don't know. I just feel like it's hard to, because everyone in the group doesn't like her. Someones feel like, well, someone has to be nice. And I feel like we're still friends, but even after the fact,

I was still the one hitting her up and like, hey, how are you doing? She doesn't really hit me up, you know? So I think it's more just like I take my space now. But at what point is that? In my head, like, we're cordial, but like, when are we really gonna hang out? Now she moved away too, so that's like, what do I have to worry about, you know? You moved away. I'll always be that relationship has to reciprocate,

like what you put into it and what you get. That's just a healthy relationship. Well, I'm not putting energy into it anymore, is what I'm saying. Like, I'm not gonna put energy into it. You are though, because when we're shit talking, you have to defend her, you feel a need to have to do that. Well, I feel bad. I don't know.

Why though? She doesn't feel bad. I can see Macy's point. I mean, listen, here's the thing. Like, everyone's smashing her in the room, so I'm just trying to tell you, like, how she may feel about it. Yeah, but think of what she's done to her.

She's not here, she could have been, but. She's not defending Whitney, she's not justifying her actions. Kind of speaking for her though, which I feel like if she wanted to tell her story, she should have been here. That's fair. If I were to try to make an argument in Whitney's,

for Whitney's defense, because I feel like I know a lot of Whitney's. And I'm not usually a fan of the Whitney. Like I can't, it's just like, I can't be around you. Again, it's just like vampire energy suckers. It's just like, I don't, honestly. Again, we don't know Whitney, she could not. And I don't know Whitney, but people who remind me of her,

it's just that I think when Whitney talks like she's the victim, she believes it. Yes. And whether she's right or wrong, the fact that she believes she's being wronged, you know, it's probably coming from some past trauma or whatever it is. So like that's the, yeah, that's her reality.

So that's where I think there's empathy to be had for Whitney where I think there's a times where Whitney can't figure out why everyone's against her or why she, you know, I don't think she realizes maybe her delusion. Yeah, I don't think she was ever. We all empathize with her. We've all been through traumatic things,

but also I think it came to a point where we're like, I don't want to entertain this, because it is energy sucking. Yeah. It takes a lot. That's where you guys seem to distance yourselves. You're like, you know what? Fuck it, I'm not going to fuck with this.

And any apology that she has made is, oh, well, I was manipulated, so I'm sorry. I just don't know if she was trying to be malicious, is what I was going to say. I don't think she's purposely trying to be like, oh, well, I was manipulated, so I'm sorry. But I did this to you. I just don't know if she was trying to be malicious, is what I was gonna say. I don't think she's purposely trying to be like, oh, like mean to anybody. I just think things just didn't play out the way that she's expecting. I think she's trying to have it

her way, and the only way she wants to have it her way is doing it how she wants to be done, and then she'll just keep figuring it. She likes to be in control, and she admits that. Well, she did admit that eventually. I was like, you don't need to control the situations. Like, you just need to relax. And I think it's a fault that she did admit later

that she loves to be in control. And when she's not in control, it's like hard for her. Good luck, was real. When, yeah. Did any of y'all reach out to her when she posted the TikTok dancing while her son was very sick? Oh, that was tough.

Didn't know her. We didn't know her at that time. I didn't know her. But I mean, we have been through countless conversations with her calming her down or supporting her. That was tough. It's very triggering for her, I will say. And she gets asked about it a lot now with press

and stuff. And I will say, like, I do feel like people should give her grace. Cause I'm like, you're postpartum, like, you know, you've had a baby, like you're not thinking straight. Like she did something that she like heavily regretted later, but she didn't have bad intentions.

Well and also we've all made mistakes on the internet. I mean, it's just for that too. Yeah, for sure. That's what sucks, is like you make one mistake or one post and it's like your whole life is what people know you for, which is just so sad. I mean, it's like this entire, I'm sure Taylor is all she's getting asked about

is the swingers and the arrest. Oh yeah. Speaking of Taylor, where do you all stand with Taylor? We obviously talked with her last week. It was a tough conversation. We had to address some very serious situation, but it seems like all you women have been willing to give her grace.

And from our standpoint, I really respect people who at least try to, who attempt at making changes in their life. And like, we all make mistakes, but a lot of people talk about being different and talk about doing the work. And she doesn't talk like she's a finished product and she talks like she's actively trying.

And I give her a lot of credit for that. Is that how you all see it? Yeah, she's definitely willing to apologize when she needs to and take accountability. Takes accountability, but she's who she is always. I respect the hell out of that. You know where she stands. For sure, same person in every room. I love that. She takes accountability, but she's who she is always. I respect the hell out of that. You know where she stands. For sure.

Same person in every room. I love it. She's never the victim. She's like, I did that, I messed up. And I'm learning from it. I love Taylor. Yeah. I agree.

Good to hear. Michaela, you have been very open about your health struggles. I thought you were gonna say Whitney. I was like, damn. Oh, no, no, no, we're done with Whitney. No, with your health struggles, what is going on? where are you now?

You know, I don't even know. I haven't gotten any answers about it and it's just been never ending. I've been kind of doing like my own holistic side of things. I'm on no gluten, no dairy, no sugar, no potatoes. There's like a whole bunch of different cheese brussels sprouts. How did it first come out? It was after I had my daughter and I got like weird allergies and rashes

and then it started getting really severe. I got breast implants and then I got really bad after that and then I went on a couple rounds of steroids and it seems like it just backfired each time until I gained like 12 pounds of inflammation and water weight and I was covered head to toe. My whole body was red, and it was like, there were days I literally couldn't even get up and walk because my knees were just cracked behind, and it was horrible. And so in the beginning of 2024,

I took out my breast implants, and that helped a little bit, and then I had other things come up, and then I went to Costa Rica, and I took out all my mercury fillings, so I'm dealing with a whole bunch of mercury toxicity, and I had an infected root canal that I took out. It was just a whole bunch of shit, and I've gotten all my mercury filling, so I'm dealing with a whole bunch of mercury toxicity and had an infected root canal that I took out. It was just a whole bunch of shit, and I've gotten no answers at all.

I've spent so much money in testing and different medications. I've been on, like, three different medications for eczema and stuff, and it never worked. So, yeah, it's really frustrating. Yeah, that sucks. I'm not sure I mean you'd want to bring awareness, but you don't even know what to bring awareness to.

Exactly. I'm like, I have 10 different things. I'm not sure maybe you'd want to bring awareness, but you don't even know what to bring awareness to. Exactly. I'm like, I have 10 different things. I think it is. And it's, it's really nice to have a community on the internet that's like, maybe it's this or like, I get people sending me pictures all the time of stuff that they have. And they're like, I have this similar thing.

This is what worked for me. Um, it is like a blessing and a curse at the same time, cause it is so frustrating. I'm always sending her weird TikToks, like is it this? She's like, are you wearing cheap earrings? You might have a nickel allergy. So yeah, it's just a whole bunch of things. And it was really hard to go into filming and I mean-

Do you use any cortisone cream? No, I'm against steroids and cortisone and people go through terrible withdrawals. Yes. I am going as holistically as possible. Not to say like I've been on medications because I came to a point when I was filming when I was like, I literally wanted to die.

It was the worst thing ever. And so I wanted to get on medication for short periods of time. And so filming was so hard for me because that was like when I was basically at my worst or just getting over my worst. And so I had to go into filming every day, not looking like myself.

It looked like I had went through chemo. I lost 12 pounds after I got my implants taken out. And then all my eyebrows, you know, my eyebrows were falling out, my hair was falling out, and I just had no answers. So I had to go to filming. I was just crying every time I had to go film because I was like, I don't look like myself. I wasn't wearing makeup. I mean, I didn't look like myself at all. But she's still beautiful. She's always beautiful.

Watching some clips of the thing, I'm like, it's really triggering. So I don't know if I'm gonna watch all of it, but I think it's important to bring awareness. And I mean, I grew up with eczema and I hate it. I always wore long sleeves and I was covering myself up always because I was so embarrassed. I had as a kid. Yes, it's horrible.

It's like the worst thing, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. But I feel like going into filming, I was like, okay, I'm gonna show up because I know that there's people out there, there's people who are going through something similar and they wake up every day and just hate looking in the mirror, hate having and dealing with it, because it's not only mentally exhausting,

it was physically exhausting. It was, I was in pain. It sounds incredibly defeating. Yes, and I had three kids, I was taking care of my kids, I had to have my husband like take my kids to school and do all the routines, and so like my quality of life was so low, because I was a mom, I was like, I can't do anything.

So today, you look amazing. How do you feel? It comes and goes. I feel like, well, my skin's still red. My rashes are going away, but my skin's still really red. And I'm still having a hard time regulating my body temperature. I'll get really hot, and then I like go through like a period where I'm

just like shivering for two hours and it's yeah it's a lot but definitely had improvements so I'm hoping season two that my health is a lot better and I can come back the villain. Just kidding. I'm like I have my confidence back. I can actually congrats everyone. Yeah she's like it's actually been me. I'm like, it's been me bitches.

Literally. I'm like, Wendy's not that smart. Jen, do you want to address your season two, whether you will be? Good to see you. We thought you were in New York. Oh yeah, no, my husband still supports the show, believe it or not.

He loves it. So you're still a part of MomTalk. Yes, yes. And also he was in on the show for a reason. Like he saw it as a way to like monetize and grow my business. So even though you see the villain side of Zach, he actually is very, very supportive

and wants me to do it. So is he in medical school in New York? Yes. No, not in New York. No, not in New York. That changed last minute. Okay. Yeah.

Where's he in medical school? Follow me. Yeah. Just a wink. Just like follow me Follow me. Yeah, I'm just gonna wait. She's like, follow me. Oh yeah, and the, uh, the afflick of it all. Isn't that funny? Do they even know each other? They don't.

Okay. Um. They will know. Yes, definitely. I'm hoping for a meeting greet. I've talked to my publicist. He's like, bad! I'm your cousin! I'm like, no, literally.

No, we're trying to get him invited to the premiere. No, seriously. We're working on it. Just kidding. No, what's so funny is I was named after JLo and JLo's name is Jennifer Lynn Lopez. My name is Jennifer Lynn. So I'm the last Jennifer Affleck standing. No, literally the last standing.

No, literally. Do that extra pressure. You JLo and Dan. I still die You J.Lo and dad, just kidding. I still die in that video. She's like, what are you wearing? And she's like, caper-ally. I'm like, that's gonna be me tonight. I'm like, caper-ally.

Caper-ally. Just kidding. So what is being on this show, in this show, about to kind of take over what we hope for y'all? What does it all mean to you guys? I think I hope that other women can relate to us because we all are on different career paths,

like within the same genre, right? But like we all are in different stages of our religion. What do I wanna say? Mormon religion, we're all on different stages and I want people to be able to relate and be like, okay, like I can be Mormon and I can also be like this girl. I don't have to be perfect. Like I don't have to completely leave if I don't want to.

I can still be in the church and be like her. And hopefully they can see our careers and be inspired and our moms. Like I can be a mom and still be a boss ass. We do all the things. We're all breadwinners too. So just that you can have a career and also have kids and be married

and be successful in your dreams and in your daily life. Cause I think every single one of us have gone through a period with motherhood where I feel like every mom has gone through a period where they just lose themselves. Especially because we all were moms at such a young age. So to lose yourself right when you're supposed to be finding yourself into motherhood,

it's like, I always say like people would ask me, what do you like to do? And I'm like, I don't know what I like to do. I like to take my kids to school, I don't know. And so it's fun that we're all kind of finding our own. It's good to have hobbies and have friendships and businesses, so yeah, just finding ourselves. And I have to go back to the swinging.

But is there like a swinging community in Salt Lake City? Oh, for sure. I've never heard of it. Apparently a certain gym. A certain gym. People are going to start a Draper Gym or something. Because everyone found them. Oh no. What?

So they moved out of the fitness, if you're wondering. They're trying to remain self-conscious. You're looking busted. You know all about this, Jen. Draper Jim because everyone found them Funny they see how's baby mama doing? Oh, it's doing really good It was such a grind getting it together for the launch because I was like well I've been working on it for two years But I wanted to launch it on the show and trying to film a reality show and launch a business like in the time frame Was like the most stressful thing in my life Especially when we got like last-minute trips planned like we went to Vegas the reality show and launch a business in the time frame was the most stressful thing in my life, especially when we got last minute trips planned. We went to Vegas and the next day I had to launch my business.

And so I was like, and I don't have any employees, right? It was just me. I have a co-founder, but he's in Canada. So it was literally just me and trying to recruit my family to help me. So it's been really good, but it's definitely a grind going from being an influencer to a physical product, for sure.

But everything's great. And tell the audience about it? Yes, Sobaemama is my natal nutrition business. I should have brought some. You should. I didn't even think about it. So we have a fertility gummy, but it can also be for people

who are not wanting to get pregnant, because it helps with PMS, it helps with all the things. And then we have Prego Mama, so for pregnancy, but also all of our gummies have different ingredients that help with the specific stage of motherhood you're in. So we also have a postpartum gummy, so that one's specific, it helps with milk supply and water retention,

so we all have different things for your different stages. And they taste good. On top of being clean, vegan and gluten free. I would throw up every time I took a prenatal. Cause I don't know, and the texture of them were good. Yeah, I made her taste test them. I also had Winnie taste test them, that's before we were all friends.

Did Winnie like it? Winnie was like a trio. Yeah, she did. She did like it. Everyone liked it. Of course she did. Even if she didn't like it, she'd be like, oh my god, Macy, this is the best thing I've ever eaten.

You're so amazing. God, you really hate her. I think it's hard because it was like a trio. She was the most apology to me. I didn't, I've not gotten it. It felt like your birthday got used for drama and you were really pissed about it. Oh yeah, and that was, she was manipulated to be there.

So she's sorry that she came. That was like okay. Yeah, anyways, you're all adults. You all knew what was happening. Absolutely. I don't know if anyone can say I got manipulated. That's just the old vet speaking. There's some other famous housewives in Salt Lake City.

Do you guys run into them at all? I do a few of their hair. You do some of their hair? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, funny story. So like two, three years ago, maybe I was looking at, I own a hair salon.

I was looking at my security cameras and Jen show was eating pizza in my break room. I was like, what? So I like ran over there and like got to meet her and stuff cause someone was doing her hair. But I do the new one, Brittany, who's going to be on. She's a friend of, I know Whitney really well. So yeah.

Have you guys run into Monica? I'm friends with Monica. I love her. She's a little firecracker, that feisty girl, but. We enjoyed getting to know Monica. She seems smart. Is she on here? Yeah.

I haven't met any of them. I met one of them at an event, like an influencer event. She announced being pregnant on the show. Yes, I saw that. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's so sad. That was a big moment. Yeah.

And you guys weren't expecting it. No. No, we're not. That's insane. Oh, no. Yeah. Leila, are you dating? I currently have a boyfriend, yes.

Oh, my gosh. I kind of knew her. I was dating around for a while. I was kind of scared of commitment, but. Is he? What? He's Mormon. Is he Mormon? I was kind of new, I was dating around for a while. I was kind of scared of commitment, but. Is he? What? He's Mormon. Yes, he is, yes.

He's active. Good for you. He should get married next season. Is he worthy? Never has drank, never smoked. I wanna take you guys through a temple recommended interview right now. Is that sacrilegious?

What is that? Don't do that. What is that? Tell me more. They're just questions. Worthiness questions. Is that why you're being recruited? No, no, no. Actually, you really don that? Tell me more. They're just questions. Worthiness questions. So you're being recruited?

No, no, no. Actually, you wouldn't even know the questions because they're super long. Because you're not temple worthy. You wouldn't know the questions sweetheart. They changed. Yeah, they have changed, but it's just a, it's a line of questions that you're asked,

like one-on-one with the Bishop of the Ward to see if you're worthy. Well, here's a question, speaking of like sexism in the church, something young men in the Mormon faith, correct me if I'm wrong because I'm just a bystander, but they go on a mission? Is that only men?

No, women do it too. Women are a year and a half, right? And then men are two years. Is it still two years? Doesn't sound very equal. Okay, just because they... This is like a weird like, so, no, there's extra six months. They can tell their family now.

That's right, yeah. I think it's so that the women can wait six months while their man's on their mission and then they can go on for the year and a half and then they meet up at the end of the year. Is that relatively new? Have women always been able to? They have, but it's not as common.

It's not as common. Like I feel like it's more of an expectation for men. Like you don't have to, but it's more expected of men and not as expected of women. Yeah. And then they do like elder missions too, right? Like when people are in like their 60s,

they'll go on like couple missions together. Mission president. That's kind of cute. No, Brett randomly brings that up like once every other week. I'm not kidding. He's like, I can't wait to serve a mission with you. I'm like, what? Demi, I'm so bad.

He's two years away from that. So you better start thinking of it, babe. He's two years. You'll. So you better start thinking of it, babe. He's two years away from that. He's two years. You'll be sort of the age gap jokes. They're everywhere. We love him. We love our grandpa.

I love Brett. Who's still growing their families? Trying. My hand stuck under the bed. Me. We've been trying for like four years and nothing yet. So that was a big storyline that I don't think made it. In the show, I mean, Brett literally jacked off into a cup on camera. Okay for him and it

We actually had sex which was even more awkward I should have just given I don't know why you did that I don't we were trying to make it normal. It made sex weird for two months. Yeah Never once did I have sex for him to jizz in a cup. I was like, what, where did you go? The room felt kind of like a hotel. And we were like, let's just make this as normal as we can. Nothing about it was normal. There was paper on the table. There was cameras outside the door.

Was it like the paper that crumples when you sit on it? So it's like crumpling this. It didn't spice things up. That sounds hot. That sounds sexy. But you're still trying and still keeping the face. Still trying. Yeah, we'll see. It's been four years.

Hmm. So we'll see what happens. I'm gonna be her surrogate at this point. I know. Just knock me out, baby. Or Jen. Jen or Leila. We've talked about it.

Leila, you've had a tummy tuck. I won't put you through that. How does the church feel about that surrogacy? I think it's just left up to. Or do you not give a fuck? I don't care. I don't care, but they also have taken a step back when it comes to like your relationship

and like you growing a family, it's like whatever works for you. Yeah, yeah, because we do IVF and there's no issues. We have two, I always say we have two babies in the freezer because I just think it's fun, you know? But we have two embryos. So we might get pregnant hopefully soon, maybe. We'll see.

So what is one of the commandments? It's a. Multiply and replenish. Do you guys have So what is one of the commandments? It's a- Multiplied or punished here. You guys have different commandments than the rest of us? No. I don't know. Is it the 10?

Yeah. We have the King James version of the Bible, which is a pretty standard in Christianity. The St. Joseph. St. Joe. The St. Joe. I will never get over that. I will never get over that.

That's so funny. Any final thoughts before we let you ladies go? We can bring up pretty pebbles if we want, but we also don't have to. No. We'll see that for another time. No, we're here. We'll bring that.

It's a mystery. You don't have to say. Who did they do that to? I don't know. That was Demi. That was weird. I don't know. It was Demi.

Do you not wanna talk about it? It's something that I'm just gonna keep the mystery going. You should. Yeah, you should on that one I think it's a fair play. It's a good cereal. Absolutely. Yeah, I'll tell you afterwards. Nick is interesting. What the fuck is? Nick loves, loves cereal. His favorite is Cocoa Pebbles. Oh, then you love Cocoa Pebbles. You love Cocoa Pebbles. You love Cocoa Pebbles. You're gonna regret it. This is gonna ruin Cocoa Pebbles for real. You guys are gonna miss. You guys are gonna miss. We are. It's gonna ruin Cocoa Pebbles? You want Coco Pebbles after this? This is gonna ruin Coco Pebbles for you. You guys are gonna lose. It's gonna ruin someone's life.

It's not as bad as you think, but... No, it is. I'm still traumatized to be doing this. It was the most shocking thing I've ever heard. I will never forget when you told us. And you already said this wasn't it, so I'm gonna go ahead and tell the world that I thought it was him like eating fruity pebbles. Out of her butt? No, that would be my old.

Did she say that wasn't it? So I'm not gonna say nothing. We can't say anything. Okay, we'll let the people continue to mystery. I love an exhibitionist, so no judgment. Ladies, it's been so much fun. Congratulations on the show, the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.

I hope everyone watches, it's very good. Nellie and I easily watched it over the weekend. Yay. It's a good binge. So I hope you all binge and enjoy. We look forward to season two. Jen, we're gonna keep you at your word, because you're like, I'm done.

You'll see me there. Just kidding. Good luck on the marriage. Oh, thank you. You're a good sport, but I appreciate you answering our tough questions. And ladies, you all seem great. Honestly, thanks for being so fun.

And honestly, I think there's a lot of fascination with your culture and religion, and thanks for opening up the doors and giving us a little bit more of a glimpse into a very fascinating lifestyle. For sure. Yes, thank you. Thank you. Nice to meet you guys.

Nice to meet you all. Well, thanks for listening, guys. Don't forget to send in those questions at asknick at TheValFiles.com. For all things Ask Nick, we'll see you back tomorrow. Bye. After investing billions to light up our network, T-Mobile is America's largest 5G network. Plus, right now, you can switch, keep your phone, and we'll pay it off up to $800. See how you can save on every plan versus Verizon and AT&T at T-Mobile.com slash across America. Up to four lines via virtual prepaid card

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