The Viall Files - E815 - Diddy Updates w/ Elizabeth Wagmeister, Selling Sunset w/ Mary Bonnet, RHOSLC, & Golden Bachelorette

Episode Date: September 26, 2024

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap! We receive a breakdown of the Diddy case from CNN’s own Elizabeth Wagmeister, who also gives us opinions on the Golden Bachelorette. Meanwhile, Mary Bonnet Sells Sunset and Sunshine while talking about her new book. Also, RHOSLC (a Costco hard-launch?), Anna Delveys’ last dance, and Justin’s Dada history lesson.   “Not one star has come to his defense” ALSO… Buy our exclusive “The Podcast” merch: https://viallfiles.myshopify.com  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Follow us on X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheViallFiles Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Helix Sleep - Go to HelixSleep.com/Viall for 25% off all mattress orders AND two free pillows Green Chef - Go to https://greenchef.com/viallfilesclass for 50% off your first box + 50 FREE Credits with ClassPass! Chewy - Save $20 on your first order and get free shipping by going to https://chewy.com/viall  Caraway - Go to https://quince.com/viall for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns  Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @ewagmeister @themarybonnet @ciaracrobinson @justinkaphillips @dereklanerussell @the_mare_bare  Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 04:18 - DWTS 07:32 - Kid Driver 13:42 - Nashville 16:03 - Vibes Or Knowledge 23:55 - Monster 32:03 - Diddy 01:00:05 - Golden Bachelorette 01:28:37 - Mary Bonnet Interview 01:49:51 - RHOSLC 02:14:00 - Outro

What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Vodfiles Reality Recap Edition. I am your host, Nick, joined by the household. We're finally back in the studio. We're here. We're back, we're back in LA. How's everyone doing? Fantastic. What'd you say? I said, thank God. Yeah.

You know, I feel like two weeks is a long time to travel. It is. Like that's really, I'm like, after two weeks, I'm like, I can't go another second. Don't you just like miss your bed? I do. Like all the things would be normally where you have them. We have the Helix mattress at the lake, which is home.

No, totally. But it's just like, it's harder to travel with a kid when you don't have like her little bathtub and her high chair and her this and that. It's like, we're struggling. You were ruffing it. We were. I was like, she is just, she's,

when she's off her game, we're off her game, I feel like. And when we were traveling, she was like, I'm not eating eggs. Like when someone holds me, like I need to be in my high chair. Wait, she's eating? I need to be in my high chair. She's eating real eggs now?

Yeah. Yeah, she eats eggs. Do you have to like mush it up for her? Or is it just scrambled? We like scrambled them. Okay. Cute. It's pretty good for a baby with no teeth.

Like she's a chewer. Are you doing a regular scramble or a soft scramble? I think it's definitely more of a soft. Okay. Yeah. Really? But a hard scram? I think it's definitely more of a soft. Okay. Yeah. Really? But a hard scram. I mean, they're fully cooked eggs for sure.

Yeah. Well, soft scramble is fully cooked. It's fully cooked. Yeah. A soft scramble is kind of- Liquidy? A little watery. A little soft.

It's a little uncooked. Like an egg over easy. Right. Definitely not- Maybe I'm just soft scrambling wrong. Maybe I am too. Yeah. But they look, when I look at them, I'm like, that looks soft. Can not. Maybe I'm just soft scrambling wrong. Maybe I am too. But they look, when I look at them, I'm like, that looks soft.

Can you put salt and pepper on it or is it because she's a baby? No. So she doesn't know yet. She doesn't even know. But we do whenever we will like make vegetables, like I'll obviously save them and give them to her the next day.

And when she eats that broccoli, she's like, she is sucking that salt. She likes it. All of it, loves, loves. But like, of course. Anyways, we are back. We're ready to go. Lots to get into.

We got Elizabeth Wagmeister from CNN joining us in a little bit to go over all things Diddy. That case is wild. More and more information comes out every day. Plus we'll break down the golden Bachelorette with Elizabeth. It'll be nice to have Elizabeth back to do a kind of OG bachelor recap. Obviously Elizabeth has been recapping the bachelor

for us for some time. She actually was the first one to interview Joan after she was announced as the bachelorette. And then we'll get into Salt Lake City. We are also in episode two. They just can't get enough of us over in Salt Lake City. You guys are honorary snowflake holders. Really?

Are we? At this point you guys are characters in the show. Like a friend of, kind of. But definitely a friend of. Yes. For sure. Working for the snowflake. We're trying.

Yeah. Speaking of the podcast, we did drop Whitney Rose's episode, The Podcast, yesterday, a special, if you will, whether you did listen to it already or you haven't, refresh your memory, because apparently the entire season of Real Housewives of Salt Lake City is based off of Whitney talking shit about Lisa on the podcast

Which is an episode of going deeper that we record with her What like right after the season? Yeah, like months before or five six. Anyways refresh your memory It is available is out now. It's right there in that feed. We also made merch of the podcast. We also made some merch. Yeah. So if you're dying for some of the podcast, uh, merch, uh, go to vilefiles.com and check it out.

There's also be a good time to tell you that Vile Files Plus, be sure to check that out. We are recapping a Vanderpump recap. We have your update specials for all you Ask Nick fans out there as well, plus our pop extra episodes. For all the people who listen to the VyloFiles on iTunes, you can sign up for VyloFiles Plus directly in Apple. It's the same stuff, so there's two different places to sign up. If you're already a member of VyloFiles Plus, no, just ignore. Keep consuming VyloFiles Plus the same way you are now. But if you do listen to the VyloFiles on Apple,

there's a new way instead of just going to the Vilephiles on Apple, there's a new way instead of just going to Vilephiles.com to sign up for Vilephiles Plus. So we're just giving you guys more access to all our bonus content. So be sure to check that out. All right, what do we got going on in the real world, household headlines before we get to Elizabeth?

Are you watching Dancing with the Stars? Or seeing clips of these? I'm watching the dances, yeah. Okay. I am. What do you think of Anadelphi's? I mean, like I know she did wrong, but I find her fascinating as a character. She just, she's a fascinating person.

I don't know, kind of like with Shannon, it's like I'm not the police, I'm not a judge. If they have served their time, if they are being held accountable by the people who hold people accountable, I'm just not here to- The government people accountable, I'm just not here to... The government? Yeah, I'm just not here to just be like... To waste my energy on deciding whether I should somehow

not watch Dancing with the Stars because Annadel Vizon because she committed a crime. But she did go to jail, she served her time. I'm going to assume that she is trying to make amends and do better. So, you know, I don't know. I don't, I don't have a righteous approach or POV on Anadelvi. Okay. Well, I bring her up because her opening dance, the cha cha, it opened with like her kind of strutting out and then her ankle monitor being revealed behind like a Louis Vuitton bag.

So like, she kind of played into like the opulence of it all. That being said, when she came out, the energy of the room shifted. So people went from like clapping to like barely clapping. So then by the time she finished her first dance, Judge Carrie Ann said, I just want to say something when you came out on the dance floor, there was a shift in energy. I would just like to say, let's all just give this a chance because I can imagine this is very scary for you and I'm not pro for and against anything

that you have done, but this is about dancing here. So she tried to like shift it to like, you're doing this. I get why the audience was like, I mean, are you supposed to cheer for an ankle bracelet? It's like. Yeah. Yeah, it's a weird, like, let's play into my felony, my crime. It's kind of iconic, but also like tone deaf.

I think wearing the ankle bracelet is like a statement in itself. I don't think we need to make it part of the dance. Like we all can see the ankle bracelet is like a statement in itself. Like, I don't think we need to make it part of the dance. Like, we all can see the ankle bracelet. Yeah, like if you're cheering for the ankle bracelet, what are you cheering for? And like the Louis Vuitton, it's like, oh, come on. Yeah.

You know, I don't know. It's a little tack. She did get eliminated after like the second round. So her and Tori Spelling are no longer dancing. And my favorite part, when they asked her what she learned, she said, nothing. It was live. Yeah, favorite part, when they asked her what she learned, she said, nothing. It was live.

She said, what are you gonna take away? Nothing. That's real. What would she take away? The audience hates me, you know? Bad at dancing. I don't think she would. You have five seconds before we end the show,

what do you have to say? It's like, nothing. Wish I could have scanned my way to the top in this one. I kind of appreciate that because, you know, coming off the bachelor, you know, everyone likes to be like What did you learn by going on the bachelor? I don't fucking know nothing what it's like to date 25 people People always seemed like upset by my answers If like I was supposed to have some big like I didn't go on the bachelor in my mid 30s for like a life-changing Experience I went to like travel, you know, BNTB.

When do you have time for self-exploration when you're supposed to sit here and listen to 25 trauma dumps? Yeah, well that was when I was trauma dumping. Oh, my bad. On the other, but I didn't really trauma dump. I mean, I was like, I got to, you know, I don't know. You wanna talk about it?

Yeah, do you wanna trauma dump? We can dance. Do I? No. Start at 13. Trauma dumping is a little different now. It was like more sometimes you did, it wasn't like everyone is like, get ready. Candlelight dinner.

Yeah. What about, you know what kids are doing now? Driving their mom's cars to Target, 25 minutes away to order a Starbucks Frappuccino. Very dangerous. I feel like a lot of people are like, oh my God, that's so me. I would totally do that as,

but also like you're, you could kill people. Yeah. Yourself. Or you're just getting yourself. Should you blame the parents here? They did report the car and her missing. No, no, no, I hear that. But like, how, maybe not.

Maybe you can't blame the parents here. Maybe kids are just doing crazy things, but the kid must have known where the keys, like how does the kid go unwatched that long? How did the kid have money for the Frappuccino? Nobody knows. Could have been Target Points, could have been a stranger. Credit card stealing.

I think you need to pay a little more attention to your kids. Fraud. Yeah. Basically. Like I think there's definitely a takeaway for the parents. Like, hey, maybe just be a little bit more hands on here. I mean, I stole my mom's car when I was, I think like 14. I learned something new about you.

Wow. Yeah. 14. I didn't go to Target. I went to Zaxby's, which if you don't know what that is, it's kind of like the Canes. You, wait, you, you. I was hungry.

At 14. I was hungry. And as I'm leaving the house, I pass my two older sisters. You're a mastermind. Wait, what? I pass my two older sisters. You're a mastermind. Wait, what? I pass my two older sisters coming home and we just like look at each other.

And I look back and then- You were driving your mom's car at 14. And then my sisters turn around and follow me and like make me pull over. And they're like, what the fuck are you doing? And I was like, I wanted Zach's beef. So I didn't actually get there. What is Zach's beef?

It's like Cane's. It's like fried chicken, bread, toast, fries. It's delicious. You have a sauce. A Zax sauce. Yeah. I need that sauce. Honestly, when you're around Zaxby's,

you're like, this place is disgusting. Like who would eat here? And now that I'm away from it, I'm like, God, I would love Zaxby's right now. Anyways, so yeah, I tried to drive. I'm shocked. Honestly, it wasn't Chick-fil-A. Maybe it was Sunday.

And when you got in the car, do you remember being like, I know how to do this? Or were you like, let's see if I can drive? I think I was like, I know enough. Like I've driven a golf cart, you know? Okay, yeah. I think I can get from A to B. I will say 14 is a vast different from eight.

Eight, yeah. 100%. Some states, it's illegal for 14 year olds to drive to have a learner's permit. What state? Really? I'm pretty positive. Well Well learner's permit is different. Like, but they can drive by themselves to school and work. My friend did that in Kansas. I will also say when I was 16,

I was visiting my mom and she was like, you can, that's fine, you can take the car, drop me off at work. And I was like, no, I did, I think. I can't really remember, but I'm pretty sure I did. And I went to Chick-fil-A, of course, and coming home, I was at a red light and accidentally bumped into a motorcycle in front of me.

Not even another car or motorcycle? No, it was a motorcycle. And everyone was, it was just a little tap and we pulled over and had to call my mom and be like, hey. So you were by yourself in the car? Yeah. And the person you hit, they were like, what,

how old are you? I was 16. Okay. At least he pulled over. Yeah, and he was like, listen, he was like, we won't call the cops, but you need to pay for this. And definitely like hiked up his price, but I'm just saying.

I was afraid of the car when I was little. Like I thought if you turned it on as a kid, it would like blow up. And I don't know where I got that in my head, but I was like- Probably your parents. And that's honestly good parenting. I was told that if you hit the emergency button,

like the lights, that it would call 911 and they would like, and a bunch of police cars would come because I hit a bunch of buttons as a kid. I think sometimes fear is a successful parenting tool. Oh yeah. Or is that gaslighting? No, no, no.

Sure. I think honestly, sometimes gaslighting? No, no, no. Sure. I think honestly, Sometimes gaslighting is good. My sister, and I'll definitely like use this for River because it worked so well with my niece, she'd be like, it's time to brush your teeth. And of course all kids are like, ew, no, no, I don't wanna brush my teeth.

And my sister would be like, well, there's sugar bugs on your teeth. And like, they're gonna like eat your teeth away and you won't have any teeth. And my niece was like, that is so scary, okay. So we'd always be like, the sugar bugs. Well, in a way, fairy tales, for example, fairy tales are created in a way

to have life lessons for kids shown in a way that they can understand. Understand, right? And I just think sometimes younger kids, you can't really, explaining why they can and can't do things and hoping that they, it's just like, no, it's like you're gonna burn in hell, kind of you have sex when you're,

it's like, all right, I just wanna do that. You know? I don't know, I probably should, I don't wanna, I'm definitely not gonna tell River she's gonna burn in hell, but I think sometimes you have to, yeah. I'll definitely tell her she has sugar bugs on her teeth. Yeah.

Or like, if you press, just sometimes, if you just don't want to do something, make them afraid of doing it. It's the same thing as when a child bites you, you bite them back, right? But no, no. That's what I, I was never bit by my parents, but that's what I heard you do as a parent. You bite them. Don't worry guys, Justin's not a parent.

I'm not a parent. So you don't have to worry. But like you bite them to show them that it hurts. I saw. It's like telling the kid that if you pee in the pool, it's gonna turn red, you know, and everyone's gonna know you're peeing in the pool. You know, so you, you know, it's like a, just a little bit of a lie.

I don't know. Pop off in the comments if you think you're gonna be terrible parents. I saw something on TikTok and it was when kids are like hitting and like, you know, going through that kind of like aggression phase that you just say like, okay, like now show me soft hands and they have to be like So show me a soft bite. So you can be like

Might be a little different little nibble River is she's she Grabbed me by my throat on the airplane with sharp little nails. She has nails Oh my babies. I know that babies have razor blades Even like three days old, even our doctor was like, be careful of these baby's nails. My little sister, Maria, my younger sister, sent my dad to the ER because he's like, she severely scratched like his like cornea,

like as like a little baby, like a three or four months old because they have these like sharp eyes and like Rivers constantly just like. Sharp eyes. Sharp eyes. Sharp nails. I file her nails. She's a weapon, but mass destruction. I file her nails what feels like every day,

and they are still very sharp. Baby's nails are fucking crazy. It's like a little kitten. They get really. Kind of like a little kitten. Yeah, babies. Wait, how was Nashville? Lovely. It was lovely. Did the Packers win? They did. Yeah, babies. Wait, how was Nashville? Lovely. It was lovely.

Did the Packers win? They did. The Packers won and you know what? It was like, I was on edge because obviously like love my best friend, love that she's dating the quarterback and like I was rooting for him. And so like every time like the Packers did something,

of course I'm like standing up and clapping and then the anytime like Will did something, I'm like clapping for him or like if he didn't do something good, I'm like, oh no. I was rooting for Will. I feel like the people around us were like, what is going on with this girl? She's decked out in packer gear, and yet she's cheering for the Titans.

And even I, when Will did something well, I would have a clap. I could root for Will, and it's like I wanted the Packers to win. I honestly kind of didn't. Which is why I understood. I was not offended by that. Yeah, but you know, it was a good game.

Will played good. Packers played great. Will did very well. His team, I personally as a fan, and not to disparage the Tennessee Titans, I just feel like they didn't have their quarterbacks back. He was sacked eight times. It was like, you can only do so much.

The quarterback, it's a common thing. You either get too much credit, too much blame, because the quarterback kind of comes with the job. Did you guys go to dinner afterwards? Cause like, how did that go? Like, were you like, Oh, we did not. No, we definitely did not.

I think we just were like, you know, let's, It's tough. Yeah, they had a tough loss. Yeah, let's just like let people recover. I was beaming green and gold from my wear. It's too much. That's what I was and gold from my wear. It's too much. It's too much. That's what I was wondering what that looked like.

It's like, eww, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we had a great time. We enjoyed the great city of Nashville. Humid, humid as fuck. Really? Oh my God. That's southern humidity for sure.

I just thought it'd be like kind of transitioning into fall. That's what I thought too. I was like, I packed so many cute little like sweaters and it was like 90 degrees. They said summer. That's what I thought too. I packed so many cute little sweaters and it was like 90 degrees, they said summer. It's September, even in Wisconsin. We had the best weather at the lake. September, you get good warm weather in September.

I know people expect fall, even in Wisconsin. So imagine Tennessee, 10 hours south. It's gonna be pretty, pretty warm. Nick did send a picture when we were doing like work texts of him in the middle of a lake and then didn't respond for like hours after. And I was like, are you lost at sea? Where are you?

No response. I was taking calls on the paddle board. That's impressive. That's the joys of being the boss. If your job is to make decisions, you can make decisions anywhere. Bucks. Yep, have a good time.

All right, it's your favorite time of the week. It's time for vibes versus stats. Bum bum bum bum. Bum bum bum bum bum. All right, the season update, we got the vibes team, a solid record of three and three. And the stats team, yours truly is behind. We're kicking your butt.

Well, we're one game behind, but cool. We're two and four. What did statistics ever do for anyone? No, what games do we have on the docket this week, Mary? This week we have the Kansas City Chiefs at the LA Chargers. Okay. And we've got the New England Patriots at the San Francisco 49ers. Okay, okay, okay. Taylor Swift, Chiefs. Yeah. I know. All of these teams.

Me too. Me too. Okay, okay. Vibe city today. Vibes are kinda popping off. Okay, let's start off with the Chiefs. We know them, we love them. Their colors, red, gold, white. Mascot, this guy named Casey Wolf.

Taylor Swift. I was gonna say Travis Kelce. No, it's just like, he kinda looks like the rat from Chuck E. Cheese. That's scary. Terrifying. Which is weird, and I don't know how the wolves relate to the Chiefs other than they call the rat from Chuck E. Cheese. That's a little scary. Terrifying. Which is weird. And I don't know how the wolves relate to the Chiefs

other than they call the fans the wolf pack. Is this a, why is a mouse? No, it's a wolf. He just looks like a rat. A wolf? It's a wolf that looks like a rat for the Chief. Anyway. I guess. He seems like a good little guy.

His name's K.C. Wolf. Okay. Obviously, Chiefs, very good. Have won Super Bowls, 0.22, 0.23. Patrick Mahomes, quarterback, very good. Sounds kind of like Kermit the Frog. But that's funny. Travis Kelcey.

Brother kind of sucks. Yeah. So there is that. Sorry. Okay. No, I wasn't apologizing. He was apologizing. It's okay.

Yeah, sorry, man. Chargers is LA, right? Yep. Chargers is LA. I didn't know that one. That's okay. It's okay. It's okay. Yeah, sorry, man. Chargers is LA, right? Yep, Chargers is LA. They're the second team of LA. The people of San Diego quite upset sometimes because they used to be the San Diego Chargers. They moved.

Yeah. Sellouts. 90 miles north. I don't know if it's exactly 90 miles. So most of their fan base is still San Diego based, but when it comes to home games, sometimes it doesn't feel like a home game. Because last week, the Rams of LA

played the Niners of San Francisco, and it was all San Francisco fans. What's our stadium called? SoFi. SoFi. SoFi Stadium. Yeah, well, the thing with the Chargers is why it doesn't really make any sense.

They were in San Diego, and then they're here. But the thing about them is their colors, bright, fun, cute, we got blue. Powder blue, sunshine gold and white. Which I think is a good little moment. Some say the best uniforms in professional sports. I think they're very, very beautiful. Their unofficial mascot was this guy named Boltman,

which is just some guy that dressed up like this. Okay, kind of a slut. And like Jim Carrey the mask form, and he was smokin'. Skipping theatrical. But then when they moved to LA, he was like. He didn't travel with them. No, he put the costume on sale for eBay

for like a couple thousand dollars, and he was like, you can have all the rights. I don't know if anybody ever picked it up, but like he born at Is it available? Can we I can we get the IP of a bolt man? I will research. Okay So do they not have a mascot now then? Nope. They're just the lightning bolt just the flame no electricity Yeah, they're like speaks for itself. I think it's like very much like that's what happens when you become LA's like other team Yeah, but Jim hardball is their new coach. Very true.

Sibling rivalries. Yeah, who coached the Michigan Wolverines, who won the national championship last year. Very good coach. Wait, L.A.'s other team? The Rams. The Rams are like the actual L.A. team. I mean, not to dig the chargers, but double. Well, so those of you don't know, the Rams of L.A., L.A. Rams used to play, used to be the L of LA LA Rams used to play used to be the LA Rams

Then they moved to st. Louis won a Super Bowl. Yeah, and then moved back to LA Yeah, people love to move away from LA and then come back and then leave and then come back Yeah, people just stress you out here. Sometimes. Anyway, what are we feeling chiefs? I mean, obviously I feel like we're just we have to go Swifties I don't know. I mean, I feel like the Chargers are not Also, the chiefs won a Super Bowl multiple. I'm gonna go bolts. I'm gonna go It would be considered upstate the Chargers They started to know they just recently lost to Pittsburgh. They have a good team. They're quarterback

Justin Herbert is a little banged up. I think he's trying to play So I'm gonna presume he plays and I'm gonna go Kansas City. They've been they've been having some close games lately I think they're due for an upset. I think they had a tough tough game last week. I'm gonna go for the upset I'm gonna go bolts. So we have stats going chargers vibes going chiefs. Yeah, sounds about right. All right Game two New England Patriots at San Francisco 49ers. We'll start with the New England Patriots. I have to be very transparent. I hate them. Perfect.

I'm already going for the 49ers too. I hate them. Their mascot, I mean, colors, red, white, and blue. Boring. Mascot Pat Patriot, who literally looks like a messed up little Paul Revere, like, idiot. Historic. Gross. I love how you really feel, Mary. Anyway, like idiot. Historic. Gross.

I love how you really feel married. Anyway, I grew up a Steelers fan. Obviously this team caused me childhood trauma with Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. They're gone now. He took the air out of the ball. He did and he kissed his kids weird. So.

Who, Tom or? Tom. Brady. I see, I'm gonna go with, what do you mean weird? He kissed his what I think is eight year old son on the lips, which I just don't think is. I'm gonna go why what do you mean weird he he kissed his what I just like to hate your old son on The lips which I just don't think I Marry just hates everything Tom Brady Totally fair. Yes. Yeah, there's some real trauma there. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna expound on that anyway

Also, yeah, maybe cheated. Um Loki but to me Tom Brady is the Tom Sandoval of the NFL. Oh my god, that is a statement. So maybe we should get to the 49ers. Gronk, of course, would be Tom Schwartz, and Bill Belichick would be Lisa Vanderpump. Anyway, but none of them are there anymore, so who are they now? They're having an identity crisis,

which, you know, grow, love, change, offer a rebirth, but I hate them. Anyway. I think we have to go 49ers strictly because Sydney Warner is married to Fred Warner and she's- It was awesome. Yeah. Also, NorCal represents, so I have to.

I truly hate the fucking 49ers for my own trauma. They've been- Okay. Listen to the Packers fan, they've been better than the Packers recently. I think the Packers have lost the past five playoff games to the Niners. So they've been the cause of some of my pain. Yeah, I like the wife who makes all of the great outfits from repurposed jerseys. Yes, Kyle Juszczyk's wife. Yeah, she's fantastic. So that's my vote.

And what if I told you if their mascot was a guy named Sourdough Sam? Love Sourdough. Sourdough Sam. He is also a miner, like a prospector. Coal miner. Coal miner. Oh my god. Oh my god.

Is that okay? So, multiple uses of the term. I mean prospector. You're so excited for that too. Prospector. Prospector miner. Gold minor. San Francisco 49ers minor.

Right, they came to California, they got gold, they're rich. We don't have to like child labor law this shit or anything like that. No, and one time Sourdough Sam met Snoop Dogg, wore Shutter Shades and a massive gold chain around his neck that read Sourdizzle. Which I think is funny.

So vibes. Sourdough from San Francisco is really good. I bet. Also, they committed to the bit. 49ers, exact. 49ers. 49ers. You guys gonna go 49ers?

Okay, despite my pain, I am also gonna go 49ers. They've lost the past two games. They're on a bit of a losing streak for a really good team. New England's been tough, but they are, like Mary said, on the come-up. So, I think the 49ers are gonna get right this week against the New England Patriots. Yeah.

Okay. All right. All right. That's all from your local football expert. Here we go. Well, that was Vibes versus Dats. Are you guys watching Monsters, the Menendez Brothers documentary on the Ryan Murphy?

I have not. I don't know if I should. Yeah, that's how I feel. It is incredibly dark. It's dark. You're watching it. Yes. We are. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I'm enjoying feel. It is incredibly dark. It's dark. You're watching it. Yes.

We are. I mean, I'm enjoying it. It's very dark. It's certainly trigger warning. There's obviously top violence, topics of abuse. It's come with great controversy, but apparently Eric Menendez has issued a statement being upset about the portrayal of his brother,

which I guess you'd expect. And then I think Ryan Murphy has spoken out very, he clapped back, I guess. It was a red carpet. He's like, how much time do you have? From his POV, and I get it. Like he's- Wait, what did he, can we get the statement?

Someone asked, on a red carpet, they're like, hey, Eric Menendez basically doesn't appreciate your portrayal and do you have anything to say? And he's like, how much time do you have? And Ryan Murphy was like, I know that Eric hasn't seen it. And basically, you know, I guess probably easy to know because he's in prison. I don't know, maybe.

He confidently said he didn't know Eric didn't see it. So he's like, you know, he's like, I appreciate that obviously this is sensitive. I appreciate his, you know, obviously it's involved. And anytime someone is talking about your life, you're going to have strong feelings about it, but he hasn't seen it. So he's speaking on something

he definitely hasn't seen. And I'm not watching this show as a documentary or as a exact, you know, it's clearly not, because a lot of the scenes are between Eric and Lyle Menendez, but clearly no one was there in this moment to know everything that was said, so there's clearly a lot of liberties taken. But Ryan Murphy talked about how like when he does these biopics, he has a team that does research for years to try to get as much accurate information as possible.

And clearly there's a artistic and creative expression. It's a very Ryan Murphy-esque type of show. But you know, as someone who knew about this case from long ago, it is a dark, certainly, but fascinating case that, you know, involved two brothers murdering their parents. I do have his response, do you want me to read it? So he basically said what you said where he said, I know he hasn't watched it. Then he goes on to say, I hope he does watch it. I think if he did watch it, he would be incredibly proud of Cooper Koch who plays him.

Then he goes on, we show many, many, many, many perspectives. That's what the show does. In every episode you're given a new theory based on people who were either involved or covered the case. Some of the controversy seems to be people thinking, for example, that their brothers are having an incestuous relationship.

There are people who said that never happened. There were people who said it did happen. So he's saying he's working from different perspectives, which I haven't seen. We're in the middle of it, right? And we're at a part where, to be totally candid and again, just we're just watching the show we're at a part where we're like parents fucking deserve that shit because we're at a part where it's really into the

Abuse the alleged abuse of the parents and a very kind of different but similar to our Friend of show gypsy rose. It's like, it's like we don't condone crime, we don't condone murder, but when you're watching it as a human being and you see this horrific abuse upon these children, you kind of ask yourself, how could you not resort to this terrible survival? Doesn't make it okay, but you feel some empathy.

Obviously again, very Ryan Murphy-esque, there's the heightened sexuality of the show, but at no time am I thinking, there's the abuse and then the portrayal of the brothers' relationship from IPOV is all a result of this terrible abuse. I think it really opens up just the conversation of trauma and what going through trauma, especially as a child,

can kind of take control of your life and kind of lead you in paths that maybe you wouldn't typically go down if you hadn't have been through this trauma. It really opens up the conversation of just like psychology and all of that. And it is incredibly dark. Didn't Kim Kardashian and this actor go and meet with?

They met with Eric. And do we know how that conversation went? Do we know, like, were they? I don't know. I mean, were they just like going to get character study or like, or was it? You would think they would have done that before they filmed it, but I think it was just more to,

Kim's been very involved in prison reform and things like that. So I don't know what their intentions are. I'm not aware of what the fallout of that interaction was. But anyways, it's a very fascinating show. We're enjoying it, but it is one of those shows where it's dark and if you watch it before you go to bed, you might unfortunately be dreaming about it.

You know, it's not for the fainted heart. It's dark for sure, but it is, it's certainly fascinating. Speaking of crime. Yeah, truly. Speaking of crime, we got Elizabeth Wagmeister here, let's bring her in. Helix Sleep is the perfect place to get the perfect mattress.

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vilefilesclass at greenchef.com slash vilefilesclass to get 50% off your first box plus 50 free ClassPass credits. Green Chef, the number one meal kit for eating well. Elizabeth, welcome to the show. Hi, Nick. Hi, everyone. Hello, Elizabeth. Hello.

It's great to have you back. How you been? I've been well. I miss you guys. And I'm so excited to be back. How's everything? You know, not to ignore other people in the room, but Nick and Natalie, how's baby life going?

It's perfect. It's amazing. It's so fun. Baby life is great. River is doing something new every day. She's eating eggs now. How is auntie life? Auntie life is good.

Wolfie is also eating eggs now. I got a video of him yesterday eating eggs. So we'll have to do like a baby meetup. There you go. Yes, please. Well, we could talk babies all day long, but obviously we brought you in to get your expert opinion on all things Diddy.

It seems like there's a developing story every day on this case. It seems to be wilder and wilder. Most recently, we find out that Diddy is cellmates with the crypto crime boss. What's his name? Stankman Fried. Yeah, who ripped off zillions of people in crypto. Let's start there Elizabeth. Is that just a wild coincidence? How come two high profile people just happen to be cellmates where they are being detained?

It feels like that's a safe bet. Let's put them with a crypto. It's only a coincidence in the sense that they both happen to be held and to be, you know, to be charged around the same time. But it's actually not a coincidence because this detention center, this federal detention center, the MDC in Brooklyn, they have this area for high profile inmates. So first I wanna give a shout out to our correspondent Kara Skinnell, who actually broke this news that they are dorm mates, I guess we can call it.

And what Kara's reporting says is that the MDC, their high profile inmates, they're kept in this separate unit so that they're isolated from other inmates and they don't use the public areas of the federal detention center. Her sources say that it's a dormitory-like setup. And yeah, I mean, who would have thought, right, that it would take this twist and turn, that you would have these two very high profile individuals, you know, essentially bunking together. Is this like, even the prison systems

acknowledge like celebrity, and they just want to accommodate celebrities not having to like be annoyed by the regular inmates. Like what is the point of treating these people any differently regardless of their celebrity? I guess I'm a little surprised that the prison system even gives a shit about them being public figures and treating them differently or with any type of privileges. them being public figures and treating them differently or with any type of privileges. Because if I were in prison, I would certainly want to be, you know, kept around other people who are getting special consideration. And I'm assuming that would limit my chances of being bunked up with other violent criminals that might be a little scarier. Why do you think that is the case? So first of all, full disclosure,

I am not the expert on the prison system, but I do actually wanna say one of our analysts, Joey Jackson, who is just, for those of your listeners and viewers who have watched him for years on CNN, know how brilliant he is. And last night on Caitlin Collins show, he said, you know, make no mistake,

being in jail is being in jail. Like this is not fun for any of them and it's not seen as special treatment, it's more of a security precaution. Because, you know, I agree with you, Nick, if you are charged with a crime, why should you get any sort of special treatment?

You would hope that that is not the case here, but I believe it's more of a security precaution. And these are two individuals that are incredibly wealthy, to say the least. And I think that that's all a factor, right? When you have means to maybe work the system in a way that the average inmate wouldn't when people know who you are and there could be more violence. I think that all those things are taken into consideration. But I do think that the way that it's been reported

in some outlets makes it seem like, you know, they're in celebrity rehab and living the life. And I do not believe that is the case. In fact, the MDC is notorious for being a really, really bad place to be held. The New York Times actually just did a piece all about it. So I don't think that Diddy is living in his Miami mansion. That's worth $50 million anymore.

Okay, thank you for clearing that up. Right now it seems like the biggest speculation online, and it really does seem speculation, is just who else might be involved. We've heard about these videotapes. Clearly, all over the internet we're seeing, again, it's all speculation, fans, or just people online

going back, anyone who's taking a picture of Diddy at his party, we're seeing old interviews popping up of people talking about these parties, including Diddy himself. I think there's speculation online that Jay-Z wiped his Instagram, Usher wiped his Twitter, and then there's speculation that Jay-Z wiped, you know, like timing certainly seems off,

even if it's not a coincidence. Like, I've seen online speculation that Jay-Z, you know, like timing certainly seems off, even if it's not a coincidence. Like I've seen online speculation that maybe this is something Jay-Z does when he's marketing new movies and things like that. Where are we at in terms of, on your side of things, you know, obviously we're dealing in speculation, but I got to assume there's a lot of very nervous people out there, you know, hoping their names don't pop up

as it relates to being involved in these parties. Look, Diddy knows everybody in the industry, right? He's been on top of the world since the 90s and he's notorious for throwing big parties. We all know about the white parties. That became a pop culture phenomenon where people in their own lives wear white know, wear white and say Diddy's White Party. So I think it's fair to say that nearly every celebrity

in the world has been to one of Diddy's homes for one of his parties. That doesn't mean that they are complicit in his alleged crimes, right? Just because there's a celebrity who's in a photo at one of Diddy's homes and may look like they are under the influence and partying and having fun, that doesn't mean that they are complicit in criminal activity. So I want to be clear on that. Now that being said, of course there are people who are very nervous. You do not want your name

to be brought up in this, right? The man has just been indicted in charge with federal crimes of sex trafficking and racketeering. You know, he's facing life in prison. This is as bad as it gets. So yeah, if you're a celebrity who has perhaps done some shady things at one of Diddy's parties, you're a little nervous right now. But again, there is a difference of being drunk or even doing drugs at one of Diddy's parties and having fun versus being at one of these alleged freak-offs, which is what is at the crux of this entire indictment. So I think, as you said, a lot of this is rumors, a lot of stuff is resurfacing,

and we need to be careful in drawing that line. But I do think that old comments are always revisited, sometimes for good reasons, sometimes for bad. But something I wanna point out that I have found really interesting, not a single star has come to Diddy's defense, not one. And when you think of the careers that he has helped build and the power and the talent and all the things that come from him, right? There's not a single celebrity who doesn't know

this man. The fact that not one celebrity has come forward is very noteworthy because, you know, number one, I think people just don't want their name involved, but number two, you know, maybe they've seen things, right? Maybe they have seen Diddy allegedly act in certain ways because we've seen a lot of stars accused of bad behavior and they usually have famous friends who come to their defense, not in this case.

True, I hear you on that, but I guess I think even most recently, when you say celebrities have famous friends come to their defense, it hasn't really landed. I think most notably Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis. I was just gonna bring that up. Yeah, wrote that letter for what's his name? Danny Masterson.

Yeah, Danny Masterson who. They wrote the letters to the judge defending his character. Yeah, and so to that degree, I feel letters to the judge defending his character. Yeah. And so to that degree, I feel like regardless of what you think of Diddy, I feel like especially this high profile of a case, I imagine they're connecting the dots that the feds are bringing this case forward because there clearly is a lot of damning evidence. And my understanding is the feds don't tend to arrest people and make charges unless they're incredibly confident in the case that they have. So yeah, it kind of makes sense that no one's come to the defense.

Has CNN or you followed up with any of these high profile celebrities like Usher who have deleted their entire Twitter account? I think it was like Pink did a couple months ago something like that. Maybe it's coincidence, but you know for people who have been specifically usher Heavily connected to Diddy it sure seems like really bad timing if it wasn't as a result of Having to do with this case. Yeah, if I were advising anyone who was linked to To Diddy what to do it would not be wipe your social media at this point because whatever the reason is, as you said, not a good look. We have reached

out to many of these celebrities in question, haven't heard back anything noteworthy to report at this time, but I think it's exactly what you said, Nick. I know that you disagree with me that it's not strange that no one's come to his defense. What I do agree with you on there is it's just not a good look like it's not going to land well, right? You're absolutely correct on that. So I think a lot of the celebrities, perhaps if there's nothing that they did that was wrong, they still don't want to be associated with him. And maybe that could explain why

they're trying to kind of wipe their plate clean of any association with Diddy. I just think it's interesting that from day one, back in November 2023, when Cassie filed her lawsuit, you know, before this reached the point of federal raids, and certainly of an indictment and of charges, because you're absolutely right, Nick, the feds don't put this amount of resources into a months-long Investigation if there's not evidence that they believe is worthy to look into I just think it's interesting that from day one Yeah, they want there wasn't a single person But and I know now I'm going on a tangent not asking answering your question But just since you brought up like that level of evidence

to bring about charges, I was first to report a few months ago that a grand jury would be utilized in this case and that nearly every single accuser who had filed a civil lawsuit had met with federal investigators and they were being very cooperative and they were quite literally handing over evidence evidence like handing over computers handing over hard drives

Handing over videos and the feds were watching all the videos and any person that they saw in the video Not every but many they would contact those people on their own and bring them in for questioning So the scope of this investigation Is dozens and dozens of people that have met with federal investigators over the course of months investigation is dozens and dozens of people that have met with federal investigators over the course of months. And remember, it's still ongoing. Just because he is now incarcerated and is facing a trial and has been charged, the investigation is still active and isn't over.

I don't know if you've seen, but a lot of fans have kind of found these Eminem songs where he has kind of several times name-dropped P. Diddy in a terrible light. What do you make of those and is that going to be part of this at all? I mean, it may sound silly, but I wouldn't rule out anything is evidence, right? Like if you are a federal investigator, and if you happen to think that because Eminem wrapped something that he may have seen something or known something, they could reach out to him, you know, I don't think

it's top of their list. But I do think, you know, look, Eminem is a musical genius, and his lyrics have always been genius. I think what that speaks to is, you would imagine what Eminem is saying there is that he's seen stuff or know stuff or there's a reputation. And this reminds me of back with Harvey Weinstein, right? Like you had all of these resurface tapes of people saying things and making jokes.

You had Courtney Love on a red carpet who called him out years and years before. And that was known as the worst kept secret in Hollywood, um, that everyone knew, and they didn't say anything because of his power, and, you know, they kind of turned a blind eye to it. And, you know, what Eminem is saying in his lyrics, you know, he's calling him out.

Like, full stop calling him out. Yeah, I mean, the most notable one is, he says, I'm like a RAPER got so many SAs Wait, he didn't just spell the word rapper and leave out AP did he and it's like that's you're telling us something for sure Yeah, I mean he's not you know It is like a bit of an Easter egg, but it's really not like he's just saying it Because Eminem says something doesn't mean that it's true, but he knows what it's doing.

Yeah, and it does make you question like, okay, well Eminem, he's not just pulling that out of nowhere. Like he must, that must have been something in his world that he had heard or he had seen that made him like put it in a song. That's what almost makes it weird because it's just like then you have to ask yourself, well, how do you know this Eminem? And given some of the charges or at least the speculation on some of these charges, it's like, well, why didn't you say something? Or maybe he did, you know, like, I don't know what he saw, but if he's aware of this, was

he at one of these parties? Should he have come forward? In a weird way, it does almost incriminate Eminem in a weird way. It certainly makes him not incriminate, but it's kind of like why. It could also just be that he is commenting on something that everybody is talking about, right? I think it just leaves open the door for him

to be questioned by someone. It's just like, why were these your lyrics? What do you know if you know anything? I'm most fascinated by the story in terms of what is the potential follow-up because a lot of these crimes are centered around these parties, right? And it's just like, where do you draw the line between,

and we talked about this a little bit on Tuesday's episode with Emily Baker, but where do you draw the line between, I just happened to be at a party not realizing what was going on and being at a party where it's just like, you shouldn't, maybe a bad analogy, but when I was in high school, we had like the honor code,

we weren't supposed to drink, and part of that rule was, it was an excuse to show up to a party and stay at a party that was clearly serving alcohol you needed to leave. Like, your excuse couldn't have been like, well, I didn't drink and I didn't know any better, like, you would still get in trouble for being at a party where drugs and alcohol might be at.

So where do the floods draw the line between maybe some shady situation and people being there who are being essayed and things like that, and do people get the, are they able to say, well, I didn't realize, I didn't know? It would be pretty messed up to find out that there are celebrities there where these crimes are going on and being Committed and having a bunch of people plead ignorance, you know, it's

Absolutely, and I think that's something that kind of looking at the bigger picture that since the me to movement in 2017 that it's not just Hollywood it's a's a systemic societal issue that we're all now examining. Like what is everyone's role when things go horribly wrong? That term, like if you see something, say something. And I think that there's a lot of reasons why people,

I'm not talking about Diddy right now, I'm talking about whoever these perpetrators have been. They saw something, they didn't say something because they themselves were scared of retaliation. There's a million different factors, but of course, if there was a celebrity who was A, involved, or B, observed, you would hope that they would come forward. But I think there's a difference between someone

who was involved in this alleged criminal activity or who witnessed it. Because you would hope if you witnessed it, you would say something, particularly if you are someone in a position of power where you can. But remember that a lot of these people may have felt themselves scared, right? Or like they are being victimized or they are being threatened. And, you know, the feds have said that Diddy, in their indictment, they have accused him of running a criminal enterprise. So he's like at the linchpin of this, right, where everyone underneath him is working for him. And that is why this investigation is ongoing, because they are looking at other people.

And there's been 11 lawsuits filed and many of them have co-defendants, right? Like Universal, his chief of staff, his former bodyguard, two of his sons. Like there's a lot of people who have been accused of either enabling behavior or providing drugs, helping allegedly traffic people across state lines. This doesn't happen isolated with one person.

That doesn't happen, particularly with a very famous person who doesn't do much for themselves anyway. They're used to making a call and paying someone and do this for me. So yeah, that's why the investigation's ongoing. And I think we will see a lot of people who, whether or not they're a celebrity remains to be seen, but certainly people who works with Diddy or for Diddy

who have information. And then we'll also see, are they gonna take a plea deal and rat him out? That's something that the feds are gonna try to do as well. How much, if anything, do you think will come out before trial, you know, with the digital evidence with like all of that stuff? Do you think any of it will or do you think it will all kind of be kept under wraps until the trial itself?

I will say from the sources that I've been talking to, people are being very respectful of the process and of the investigation. Even if there's something that they want to tell me and they believe is important to get out there, something that I often hear when I call sources is I really can't speak while this investigation is ongoing. Nothing that happens with the grand jury

is supposed to come out. That's against the law. So I think that people are being very cooperative. That said, I do believe, and I would go more than I believe. I know that more information is going to come out. It takes a long time for a trial. That could be months and months and months,

more than a year away. Whether or not there's tangible evidence, like that video, maybe. Certain outlets, I think, pay for material like that. So certainly not CNN, but that's a way for it to come out. But in terms of more information, I think we will see more accusers. I think we will see more civil suits.

You know, this is far, far from over. This may be a stupid question, but does Diddy know what is being talked about in the grand jury? Does he know all the evidence they have? Yeah, probably not, right? Not at this point, at least. in the grand jury, does he know all the evidence they have? Yeah, probably not, right? Not at this point, at least. No.

So, I mean, when they're prepping for trial, at that point, then his attorneys, both sides, the prosecution and Diddy's defense, have to fight for what they believe should be admissible in court and should not be, and then the judge will rule on that. So there is, I mean, from my sources, close to the investigation,

I've heard there's a treasure trove of evidence. That's why this investigation has been lengthy. Not that that's abnormal. Like these investigations take time. It's not abnormal that it's been months and months, but there's so much information to pour through and so many people bringing more information. Imagine what could come out in court. So when this trial happens, there will be a lot that I'm sure both sides will be fighting to keep from the jury.

And you think there's a chance that the actual trial could still be a year out? Is that possible? Yeah. These things take a lot of time. Uh, you know, they have to see who's willing to testify. They have to go through all the evidence and see again, what will be admissible in court. Um, I mean, you think from the time I go back to Weinstein, because I covered both of those trials, I don't have the exact timeframe in my head, but from the time that he was first accused

To when he was charged was years that trial didn't happen till 2020 You know, he was accused in 2017 There's many reasons why his things could take a long time But I do want to I want to point out since Natalie you brought up evidence that that could come out I know that you all know that that it was our team here at CNN that we broke that video of Cassie being horribly, violently abused. And that came up a lot during the court proceedings

last week when he was indicted. That, according to all legal experts who have been on CNN's air, will be a key piece of evidence that is more than likely shown to the jury. And even though that was referenced in a civil suit, and we independently came across that video and published it, because for obvious reasons, it was incredibly newsworthy, to say the least, even though that came from a civil suit and not the criminal proceedings, it's all related. So when you look at these civil suits from these accusers, that can kind of provide a roadmap, right, of what you may

see in this trial. Everything that they mentioned, if there's evidence, the feds are hoping to get their hands on all that evidence. Yeah, and as our guest, Emily, pointed out, because it's a racketeering case, it seems like the feds have a way more leeway using this past evidence to connect the dots for kind of to paint a pattern of behavior where in other cases, that video is as disgusting as it is, might not be admissible given what the other charges are.

So it is fascinating given like the racketeering of it all and how the feds are able to use evidence like that to use it towards this case. Well, you also, you have someone who's denied, these allegations, right? So then also you have someone who's denied, you know, these allegations, right? So then when you have a video like that, it shows, well, you denied many of the allegations and Cassie's lawsuit. Now this comes out.

So that video also served as an attack on his credibility, right? Because now he's denied not every, you know, not every single claim, but he has denied the subsequent allegations and suits that he has been faced with. And that's going to be hard too, when they are selecting a jury to find, A, someone who doesn't, you have to find 12 people who A, don't know who Sean Combs is, which is nearly impossible,

and B, who hasn't seen that video, and now who has seen what that man is capable of, even though in his apology video, you know, he said he was disgusted by his behavior and per that video, I think, was aiming to make it seem like this was an isolated event. That's going to be a hard thing to find a jury who doesn't have thoughts about what they saw. I see that in the indictment, it says that everybody, like anybody or anything is open to investigation that's related to the Combs enterprise, and that's including alcohol companies, fashion, TV.

People are noticing that CEOs are leaving their companies at a really fast rate. And I guess I was wondering, do you think, is the main goal just to get confirmation that Diddy is or did do these things versus like is it a bigger like sex trafficking ring is it like the Jeffrey Epstein of it all where we were waiting for like the black book to come out like are do they think that there's more prolific people in this related to the racketeering and sex trafficking to bring in with Diddy? Yeah just to double down on Sarah's question that you know I know you kind of

speculated you know and I don't know what you're able to say, but piggybacking off of Sarah's question, is the expectation that other high profile people eventually will not only be named, you know, in terms of being at these parties, but actual charges being presented against any high profile executives or celebrities? Is there an expectation there or is that too early to say? I mean, it's too early to say because we don't know what charges may or may not come forward, but I think it's absolutely fair to, you know, beyond speculate. You know, the prosecutors have said it, you know, they've said that they are continuing this investigation and that based on their investigation at this current moment, that they have strong reason to believe that he did not act

alone. So yes, this is not just right now, you know, only Diddy has been indicted, but this is not just a Diddy case. You know, every single accuser in the civil suit has mentioned other people, right? He was one of the top earners in the music industry, then went on to, as you said, Sarah Fashion and Licker and think of all these executives who, you know, were overseeing his businesses, were looking at the books. You know, there was money allegedly spent to help enable these alleged crimes that he was committing. And it's hard to believe that he would be acting alone. So when you say high profile,

I think absolutely, does that mean a celebrity? You know, what's your definition of celebrity? But I think that there's a lot of high profile executives, a lot of people who won't be high profile, you know, who are people that we've never heard of, who were hired to work with and for Diddy. But, you know, too soon to say if there will be charges, but it's completely fair to say

that there are other people being investigated at this very moment. That's crazy. Yeah. I just, it's all seem more crazy that it's like we mentioned with the Epstein, this could go on for years. So I mean, it's really interesting to see what other high profile celebrities, if any, are more than just involved, but actually potentially charged with any types of crimes will be.

I think to me that that's the biggest next ball to drop if it does drop of who could be involved. Is there a crazy question? It's a lot of top dogs like CEOs and whatnot stepping down from companies where they've held these positions for so long and it's like, why is the timing now? Yeah. Well, Elizabeth, thank you for walking through all that

with us. Let's turn the page to something a little more brighter, a little more heartwarming, the Golden Bachelorette episode 2. Do it, do it, does anyone feel like Elizabeth you're tapped into Bachelor Nation. You obviously had the opportunity to do Joan's first interview. I can't help but wonder, given just last season, Gen's season, other than the crazy ending, it didn't seem to be as well received

or people weren't as excited about it. Do you think there's any world in which Batsher Nation just fully leans into the Golden Era and it becomes a Golden franchise? Or do you think they'll always continue to do both the original format and Golden? Because it just seems like they're really leaning into the Golden. And rightfully so. It seems to really work with this format.

And I'm just curious if you have any thoughts or if you know anything on the direction the franchise might be leaning. Yeah, I mean, I think, absolutely. I think they should be leaning into the Golden franchise. I don't think that they will ever leave the flagship behind. I don't see this going fully Golden, but I do think that they can make programming choices,

where there's more golden spin-offs and more that airs year round. Bachelor airs year round, as we all know. Maybe they air a golden paradise and a golden bachelorette in the same year, and then only one season of the flagship. So I definitely think there's more momentum behind the Golden franchise right now than the flagship one. And we've seen this before, right? Where it feels like it needs a little bit of a shake-up to kind

of be revitalized and bring more interest. And as you said, like the Golden franchise has done that. People are really excited about it, so I think they should be leaning into it. And I wanna see Golden Paradise. What? Oh my God, that'd be great. And it's interesting, because I think the flagship show of The Bachelor

is in a bit of a pickle, right? Because it's still network television, right? So it's ABC, right? And so when The Bachelor, Bachelorette, the original flagship format, they're now in an era where they're competing against shows like Love Island, right? A show that can really, it's streamed,

they can kinda really go there, just like the heightened, you go from watching Love Island to The Bachelor, it's just like, this is, it doesn't compete. It's like a soap. Yeah, it's just, it's like, ugh. Where, so it's like, they can't keep up given their limitations of Like a soap. Yeah, it's just, it's like, where, you know, so it's like they can't keep up given their limitations of being a network television show

coupled with the fact that, you know, we know that like it's just the people they're casting for the flagship show, it just kind of reads disingenuous now with all the social media of it all. It's like, you know, the, why are these people really there? You can't really fault contestants who are in their

early to mid to late 20s or 30s signing up for this golden opportunity of fame and influencers and things like that. And so, and then you have the golden franchise where you never speculate in terms of their intentions because it's so clear that everyone there is truly there for just second chance. They're not second chance at love. Maybe for some it's third or fourth, but just this unique opportunity to do something so out of pocket, something exciting and new and fresh, take a risk in ways they haven't taken a risk in years.

And it's just like the flagship can't compete with the authenticity that Golden brings and they're having a hard time competing with the other love competition shows that are streaming. It's just like it almost makes sense why they're having a hard time keeping up because of of what Golden gives them and then how they they can't really keep up with the love islands of the world. So I don't know, it's an interesting argument. Yeah, no, and I agree, like there are absolute limitations, right, that just the Netflixes of the world don't have. So when you have, you know, love is blind

or too hot to handle, they can show more sex, they can say whatever they want without being bleeped. You know, one of my favorite parts of Love is Blind is when they kind of go into the real world and they talk about their finances and all of that. It's just, it's very authentic. So I think the Bachelor franchise has those limitations, A, like you said, Nick,

because of the broadcast restrictions, but B, it started in such a different era of reality television. So I, you know, I think The Bachelor, it's more of the fairy tale and not like the mess of authenticity. And I think that maybe like leaning into that is what's key because it's different audiences, right? Like, of course, you have crossover people who love reality dating shows like myself, you know, we're gonna watch them all, like, I'll always watch The Bachelor and I'll always watch Love is Blind, but there's very different audiences. There's a lot of people watching The Bachelor that are never

going to watch Love is Blind, right? Obviously those viewers skew older, they're more, you know, middle of the country, so I think that you're right. There's limitations, but if they lean into that, perhaps that's what they should keep doing. But what they've done with the Golden franchise is what no one else is doing, right? So then they have that up on all of these streamers,

which is like the young, messy, like we love, we all love the mess of a reality star who's in their 20s or 30s. Golden is the exact opposite, and it does feel so authentic, and I'm loving Joan's season. I like it more than Golden Bachelor with Gary. I think it's great.

I mean, you know, we talked about this on Tuesday, the gil of it all, and obviously that's an unfortunate situation. Minus that though, I've been really impressed with the collection of men they were able to find for this season. And I was vocal about my concerns if they're gonna be able to do that.

I thought it would be one thing for them to find a collection of women who maybe have been fans of this franchise, or maybe have daughters or kids who have been franchised who want their moms to go on. I thought it might be tougher to find a group of men who would be willing to open up and talk about their feelings and things like that. And it sure seems like they found some pretty highly successful guys. Honestly, it seems like half these guys are kind of loaded and highly successful.

Now that doesn't mean they're high character guys just because they have money, but I just in general, I've been impressed by the collection of men that they've been able to find. And I really think that's driving along with Joan being so dynamic, the enjoyment that people are having of the season. Yeah. I mean, I couldn't agree more. I think the cast of men that they found is phenomenal. I think, you know, I hate to say this,

but it does feel like they are there for the right reasons. If you compare to Golden Bachelor, I loved it. And it was so fun. And I do think that they were a lot of people there. Like they went to find love, but how it ended up, you know, my favorite part of Golden Bachelor was the women. I loved the camaraderie between the women

and they were so fun and it kind of became about that. It was almost like a little like sitcom between the women where now I feel like we are really watching a dating show. You know, this feels like what the bachelor flagship was back when it started in the 2000s. But it's so sincere. I literally look at my husband and I'm like, oh my God, I'm crying.

I can't stop crying. These men, they're so sensitive. When they talk to their families, and I just think that it feels like they are all there truly to enjoy this experience, to find love. They obviously, a lot of them have this commonality of losing their spouse. So, yeah. They love a widower.

It's like if you didn't have someone die, you can't compete. I do wish they would allow. Oh, you can say that, Nick. Right? Right. I mean, I do wish sometimes, like I under, yeah, I'm with you.

I'm crying all the time, as Avi touches the heart. But I mean, there are other stories out there I do wish sometimes, I'm with you, I'm crying all the time, it obviously touches the heart, but there are other stories out there other than someone experiencing a partner passing away and sometimes I wish they would. It does make, I've talked about my mom potentially going on the next season of Golden Bachelor and she's kind of, she's watched these last two

and she's said to me,, I don't, you know, I didn't lose my, your dad or my husband. Like I've been divorced twice and I have four children and I raised four children on my own. And I had, you know, just a complete different experience. Like, do people even want to hear that? Or do they just, like, I feel like it is kind of cutting off the people who have just been divorced and who have just

like gone through heartbreak and not necessarily losing their spouse. Yeah, no, I agree. I think that's my only criticism. And the bachelor producers, it's often a criticism I have is they know what works and they just kind of lean into that one thing where it's just like, to Nellie's point,

there are other empowering stories, there are other heartbreaking stories out there. You don't have to experience death to have overcome a great deal of adversity. And I would like them to shine a light on some of those other stories, people who had difficulties in tough marriages and things like that.

I think it's a challenge, because no one wants to come out and disparage a partner and things like that. But yeah, I would like them to try to open that up a little bit more than they are right now. I didn't watch the Golden Bachelor. So my question was, I know that Joan is a widower. Do we think that maybe they casted that way

to like help it be more relatable? Or was there a lot of widowers or widows on the previous season? There was. I mean, listen, I think when you're dealing with a cast, a lot of people have that experience. I just, knowing how they make that show, I just know that they, yeah, they love a widow or a widower. They do, from a TV standpoint,

they seem to be more drawn to those stories because again, it obviously brings the waterworks, it brings the emotions, but I still would like to see other stories other than just someone talking about death. And I would like to see other things highlighted and not just the people who have experienced a passing of a partner. But I think you are right.

I think because Joan is a widower, that they cast men who can understand her experience. So maybe whatever the next spinoff is, whoever their next lead is, perhaps it's not a widower and perhaps it's someone who, you can have a terrible divorce and be on the show or you could have had something that just didn't work out.

You've had a great marriage and you decided to split, but yeah, I think those are all really interesting stories to look into and I agree with you. If the lead is not a widower, then I think they can lean in, lean into that more. I gotta say though, I think I was really right about Chok. He is definitely a top candidate. For him to get the first one on one is a big deal.

I always say that, you know, the Bachelor producers, they look for their villain when it comes to their first impression rose or a big deal. I always say that the Bachelor producers, they look for their villain when it comes to their first impression rose or a first date. I think that's different when it comes to Golden. I don't think they're looking for villains on this show. I think that's not their point. But I think Joan is really, it's about finding love.

So she clearly has something with Chalk. I love his eye contact. I love the way his eyes sparkle. Disneyland. Disneyland. Disneyland. It was just a very, I mean, when he was talking about his partner and when he was like, we had plans, Joan.

Yeah. Oh my God, even now I'm just like getting emotional. And every time he was like, I just, it's just to feel like a kid again. Like every time he said that, like I would just start, like my tears watering up. Like I was like, oh my God, this is so cute. Have they gone to Disneyland before on The Bachelor?

Have they? I honestly, I don't think they have. I don't think they have. Which is shocking given the connection in the cross promotion opportunities. They really haven't done that. You would think every three years, they would go to some type of Disney owned theme park.

Right. Almost shocking that they haven't done that. I was thinking the same. When it happened, I was like, oh, of course, at Disneyland. And I also think that the producers know what they're doing and sending chalk on that date Like you're not gonna have a bad time at Disneyland It was a perfect date, but I agree with you Nick I think he is definitely one to keep an eye on and I also I love the prom date like if that were on the normal

Bachelor it would have seemed so cheesy, but because it was with these people of a certain age, it was so fun, I loved it. So fun, now we were watching it, now he's like, oh, they should have gotten their prom pictures from when they were younger, and I was like, oh, that would have been a good idea. Turns out they did that, but then they barely showed it. You know, I really wanted them to,

like, they could have like, you know, like in a upper third type of thing just kind of popped it up. I wanted to see all these guys' photos. And even if it was like a homecoming, you know, Sadie Hawkins, it doesn't have to be prom. I just want to see them all dressed up, you know, as a young man, and I wish they would have

shown us more than they showed us. I feel like that was a missed opportunity. How adorable is Charles? Oh my God. He's so cute. We have to protect him out. They've shown us more than they showed us. I feel like that was a missed opportunity. How adorable is Charles? Oh my God. Oh my God. He's so cute. We have to protect him at all costs.

I love him. And just, you know, literally the only person him and his wife ever dated. And not that, listen, every passing of a partner has its own tragic story, but a brain aneurysm to like be with someone having a normal day, no health concerns, and then a sudden suddenness. I mean, God, I just, my heart breaks for what that man,

what the state of mind that man was in when that happened. But I feel like he's a sage, you know, or he's- So positive. So positive. Protect him at all costs. My God, the wisdom this man has and just like the, when he was sitting there in the bleachers during prom by himself, oh my heart died. His little dance too.

His dance, and then when he was on the phone with his daughter and the confessional, I mean, he is really, whoever just said it, he needs to be protected at all costs. Like he's, oh, he's just., he needs to be protected at all costs. He's just. Creative note, I would like at the permission of the Golden Cast, more involvement with the kids. I wanna see more kind of ITMs,

and I wanna see an incorporation, because I think it's just a great opportunity to get to know these people from the point of view of their kids, and I think it just can add to the emotions. I wanna see more. The check-ins, I think, are cute. They're like, this is what I did today,

and this is, you know, and hearing the kids, you know, Charles' daughter be like, you sound like you're just having so much fun, and like, that makes me so happy. Oh, my God, it's so great. Who do we think, after two weeks, is a Joan potential candidate? And then who do we like for our next future Golden Bachelor

after two weeks? I mean, I said it last episode, Dan is like, I love Dan so much. After the talent show, the ribbons. Yeah, him opening up about his health issues. His tremors. I love him so much. He was also the one with the floral book about it.

No. That was Michael. That was Michael, he's eliminated. Oh, sorry. But he's still positive about finding love. That's what he said when he left. I think Kim is the villain, the ship person, because after the talent show, he was the only person that they gave

kind of like a negative like- The captain? Yeah, I have to fight for my time, for Joan, like at the only person that they gave kind of like a negative like... The captain? Yeah, I have to fight for my time for Joan, like at the end of the day. Which one's him? He's the one that wrote the song. The Navy veteran. Oh.

You think he's gonna be the villain? I think they kind of gave him a little bit. No, come on. You don't think so? You can't make a veteran a villain. The Navy captain? No, I know, I know. But they made him seem jealous of Dan,

and they gave Dan like the wholesome like approach. So it's like... Did they put some like, some suspenseful music behind? But they made him seem jealous of Dan and they gave Dan the wholesome approach. So it's like- Did they put some suspenseful music behind him that it made you think? There was a little bit of a- I mean, they're gonna have to have some drama, but unlike I think the flagship show

where they'll take a grain of nothing and turn it in to seemingly two people hating each other on the show, I don't think they're gonna lean in. Cause honestly his, I hope they don't. When he sat down with Joan and talked about his wife passing and the letter that his wife wrote

to his newly born grandchild, God, I was just a mess. So yeah, I don't know if he's, you can't make a Navy captain. Look, just stating what I saw. I don't know if he's... You can't make a Navy captain. Look, just stating what I saw. I don't really think, honestly, they're going to be any villains. I mean, like, think about it.

Last season, you know, it was more they showed drama as opposed to painting someone as a villain. So, it just feels icky if they have a villain. Unless it's well-deserved, unless I'm really showing, it starts up being an asshole, I don't want to see any of these men painted in a way that they will often paint someone unfairly on their flagship show. I'm impressed with Kelsey's dad.

Gap. He's got Riz. And I say this because I think, you know, we saw this with Matt James' mom, and this is not a sled, and it's like, you know, I think a lot of people think that if you have a relative or an inside track and they get on the show, that somehow they're gonna do better than others because of the connection.

And I think this does speak to the authenticity of the show. It's just like this is a bizarre fucking atmosphere for anyone who goes in and it is still a TV show, right? And it is not, it wouldn't be surprising for anyone to just kind of show up to this atmosphere and just decide, I don't know if this is for me or for the lead to just maybe not have a connection, right? And so I'm impressed with Kelsey's dad because clearly he is leaning into this experience. He's embracing whatever odd feelings he's obviously experienced. And I love that he's going for it because it's not a given that just because he is Kelsey's dad and has the opportunity to get on that he would be able to you know embrace the

insanity that is this experience and he's doing quite well. I think he's got to be the front-runner for the next Golden Bachelor and it will come down to is he wanting and capable of playing the role of the lead. Whatever you thought of old Gary, he certainly played the role very well. He knew how to perform as, and that is a part of the job, you know, it really is. Like you have to be able to recognize

that this is a TV show. And I've been impressed with Kelsey's dad because I think we're all kind of rooting for him to potentially be the next Golden Bachelor. It requires a certain mindset and ability to fill that role and I think so far, so good. So I'm excited for him. Why can't Pascal do his own laundry?

Cause he can pay someone too. I think he's, it sounds like he's- I love him. I think he's like, clearly he's like, he's a bachelor. Yeah. The Gucci, the Hermes. Yeah. That's the truest sense of the truest sense. He's the truest bachelor and he's been a he's a bachelor. Yeah. The Gucci, the Hermes. Yeah. He's a truest bachelor and he's been a kind of a single guy

who's just been like, I don't, I just, I can afford to pay someone to do my laundry, which is like. Relatable. Relatable for you. The only reason that like. But you know how to do your laundry. Sure, but as soon as I could afford to not.

I will. I was like, I'm never going to do laundry. But you're like the, the, you're brilliant with stains. Like if I, if there's any sort of stain, you like can immediately get it out. Because my mom taught me that you put Dawn dish soap on any stain and immediately put it in the laundry. I also know how to iron like a motherfucker, which I don't mind ironing, but it's the laundry and the folding I do, will not ever do. And Pascal's just, which I don't mind ironing, but it's the laundry and the folding I do will not ever do. And Pascal is like, I don't fucking do this shit.

And I love that he hired, uh, who did he hire? I really like the snore to do his laundry. Yeah. It's the same guy who has the sleep apnea, which please get that checked out. Greg, if you're out there, the, the ex university professor, get that checked out, man. Like it's like it's a dust sentence waiting to happen. I'm not, I'm not to be morbid here, but like that's fucking, but he's laughing about something that's a very life setting. Like people die from this shit. It's a cool action.

I'm just like, if you're out there, you know, someone who's like in their sleep, you need to get, you need to go see a sleep specialist. You could save someone's life. Seriously. It's not to, you know, to deviate from the sleep apnea conversation, but going back to Pascal, I'm actually very ready for him to go. Like I'm not a fan. I just like, I don't know. It's like a catchy thing. And I just, I don't believe the connection between them. Like I'm, it's like he was fun while it lasted, and now I think he can maybe go to the next.

I agree. I see what you're saying. He's clearly not Joan's person. It's kind of like how April wasn't Gary's person, but like April was great comic relief. I don't mind it. I mean, I agree with you in the sense that like, Pascal presents as someone who like,

hasn't been interested in love yet, and might not ever be, because he's out there just being a bachelor, but I don't mind seeing different lifestyles of older men. I feel like we can rely more on Charles L for the comedic relief than we can Pascal. Well, I agree. But then they got rid of Jack. I miss Jack. They got rid of Jack. Yeah.

Who was the comic relief. But Jack also like that some of the men were like you think well he's like all he wants to do is swim. You said it the last time you're like I feel like he's here for a good time. Yeah. Very much so. I was also ready for him to go as well. So I was okay with that. But I think like Pascal, I think Pascal was good casting because it's like, who doesn't want the hot like Parisian man? It's like, you know, her, her Carrie Bradshaw, like, you know, like it's good, but now it's run its course. And it's like, okay, we can, they're not going to end up together. Um, and I'm still with you, Natalie. Charles is just everything.

Like him saying he's the oldest, and he's like, but I'm clearly the healthiest. I love him. I know, he's the star. He is the breakout star. I would watch Charles as an ex-Bachelor. Yeah. Oh, me too. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, if that man could find love again, I only want him to be the bachelor if their top priority is him finding real love and not making a TV show. And I get it, their top priority is always making a TV show and their lead finding love is a close second, but it's definitely not their top priority. And I only want Charles to be the bachelor if they

are truly committed to finding this man a genuine connection because he is so deserving of it. Not that, not, not that any of the other men are less deserving, but like, I just, I want that man to find, like they really, he's just, Charles is leaning into his loneliness and it's sad you know he's so content but in a way but it's like yeah he's he's the way he leans into that loneliness is it makes me want him to find love more than I guess maybe anyone else a little bit more. No him that scene that you brought up Nick of him sitting on the bleachers I was like oh my god like my heart was breaking. And then, you know, when he was dancing, it like brought life back to all of us. I just find it so vulnerable when anyone can acknowledge their loneliness.

I think it's a very scary, you know, just say you're lonely. I think people have a hard time admitting because I think they're afraid of what it might imply in a way. Embarrassment. Embarrassment. I think that's such a vulnerable thing to put out there. It's also so sentimental too with, was it Gary?

The one that she gave the prom picture to and he was just so, the fact that she put the thought into giving me this where it's just like, somebody hasn't been that kind to you or has made you feel that way in so long. And it's just such a precious thing to watch. You know what I mean? Those emotions flooding back to them and being like, like wait this is what it feels like to be like loved and cared for and I don't know it just it tears me up. Totally. Well Elizabeth we really appreciate you taking the time it's so much fun to talk Bachelor with you as well as get your

insight and all the things that you're doing over on CNN. Can you let my audience know where they can find you follow you and just follow the work that you're doing over on CNN. Can you let my audience know where they can find you, follow you, and just follow the work that you're doing? Absolutely. So all of my socials are at ewagmeister, and then watch CNN, read CNN, follow CNN. Yeah, that's where you'll find me. All right, appreciate you, Lizbeth. Nick, I'm gonna leave you guys with one little fun hot tip.

So the prom scene in Golden Bachelor, that was actually filmed at my high school. Oh, shit. Wow. Did you, was there any involvement that you had? Did you make an introduction or is that just a complete coincidence? No, complete coincidence. But, you know, they didn't show the name of it. But obviously,

I recognize it. So that's Calabasas High School. I'm born and raised. I was in Calabasas long before the Kardashians. My family moved there in the 90s. But you know, as you know, Nick, Bachelor Films, you know, it's technically Agora, which is like near Malibu and Calabasas is right near there. So that would have been one of the closest high schools and I'm sure that, you know, that's why they did it. But yeah, it's a public high school. They made some changes to the front, so I had to like pause and rewind. But yeah, that's at Calabasas High School. So shout out to... That's amazing. That's such a weird thing to see my high school on the voucher. That's crazy.

Well, Lesbeth, we thank you again for taking the time. Look forward to you coming on again and we'll talk later. Awesome. Bye guys. Bye. All right. Up next, Mary Bonet from Selling Sunset. If you're a pet parent like me, you know about Chewy and when they say they have everything

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to get free shipping and 365 day returns, quince.com slash viall. Mary, welcome back to the show. Thank you. I feel like this is your third time on. It is. We love having you. Well, thank you for having me. I love being on it. How you been? I've been good. I feel like this is your third time on. It is. We love having you. Well, thank you for having me.

I love being on it. How you been? I've been good. I've been busy. You have been. Yeah. Variety is one of Variety's 40 most powerful women on reality TV.

I did not know that. Did I? You didn't. Did I? Did I know that? Oh, I knew that. I was actually at the event. Yeah, that's where I am.

Oh, wait. Yes, that was a while ago. Yes. Yes, okay. But still, it's event. Yeah, that's where I, yeah. Oh wait, yes, that was a while ago. Yes, yes, okay. But still, it's, I mean, it's worse in, we're in the same year. That's how busy I've been. Yeah. Here, like, I didn't even realize it was one of the most powerful.

Is that me? I did not mean it that way. That's actually, it's a huge honor. It is. It's a huge, huge honor. But what I loved about it is because it gives a lot of credibility to the space that I think has often been fighting for it.

Let's be real, when it comes to reality TV stars, I think they're often seen as like a tier below other celebrities, if you will. I think reality TV stars have to justify or feel the need to justify their relevancy. But the good people at Variety, which is one of Hollywood's most credible entertainment magazines to give that credibility

to that space, I thought was a really cool event and I hope they continue down that path. I do too. That is an honor. It really is. When I was nominated for that and I got to show up there, be on stage, it was just, it's always surreal.

You know, it's like you get invited to these things and it's just like magical. Like, in a moment you're like, how in the world did this happen? Like, I was just sitting there selling homes. Like, it's like, no one knew who I was. And actually that's the thing, like, it was a running joke. Nobody knew who I was.

Even when they met me like 10 times, they would forget. And they're like, oh, nice to meet you. Hey, Jay, what's up? Hey, Romaine. Hi, nice to meet you. I was like, you've literally met my husband once and I've met you like a hundred times. I was like, and no one remembered me until the show.

So it's always just cool and mind boggling to me too where I'm like, eh, you didn't remember me before. Now you do. But variety does. But variety does, and that's what matters. Yes. Well, you have a new, well, new book. Is this your first book you wrote?

It is my first book, and it just came out yesterday. Selling Sunshine, available now? Available now. Tell me about it. So, everybody knows a basic kind of thing of my life from the show. Like I'm a single mom, a teenage mom, and that's about it. Been, have a young husband and that's about it.

How old is Roman? Don't put me on the spot. He's, I always forget. He's like 32. Oh, thank you. Wait, you don't know. Oh my God, thank you. I love that.

I kind of know that you don't know. That is so bad. Oh my God. I did it the other kind of know that you don't know. That is so bad. Oh my God. I did it the other day and I was like, wait, 31, 32. And then I'm like, I can't remember which one he said. I'm like, I can't remember. I know he was 24 when I met him. I know that, cause that was like, is this legal?

I don't know. Like I thought maybe I could go to jail. Socially legal you mean? Well, I mean, kind of, yeah. I mean, I was just like, I'm that much older. Iscially, legally, you mean? Yeah, well, I mean, kind of, yeah. I mean, I was just like, I'm that much older. Is that like, is that allowed? I don't know, he's really close to my son's age, but. How close? And look at you now.

How's your son? He's not too far off, 27. Damn! Yeah. That's a flex. How's your son feel about that? He's cool with it. Are they friends?

Yeah. Do they play video games together? No, but I'm sure awesome would love to. No, that's so mean. How does your son feel about that? He's cool with it. Are they friends? Yeah. Do they play video games together? No, but I'm sure Austin would love to. I know, that's so mean. But no, Ramin's not a video game player, but I'm sure my son would love to. But they do actually, they actually, they do kind of.

They have this, Jason has a Sim car thing, like a Formula One Sim car that he paid like a stupid amount of money for. Like it was, they're crazy, a couple hundred thousand for this stupid thing. And so he gets in, it's like an actual car, and he has it in his house, and you drive it. And so they all go over there, every time Austin's in town,

they go over and they all practice race car driving. I think it's such a flex that you have a 27 year old son. Yeah, I know, it's pretty crazy. Yeah, I mean, I think there's such a flex that you have a 27 year old son. Yeah, I know, it's pretty crazy. Yeah, I mean, I think there's, you know, I think men historically have, you know, if they've gotten married, young or had kids, and if that relationship didn't work out, and they start dating again,

it's not too surprising to have them find out that they're dating someone younger, maybe close in age, and I just feel like it's such a flex for you to do that. Women can do it too. I think it's great. I mean. And I just feel like it's such a flex for you to do that. Women can do it too. I think it's great. I mean. You guys look good doing it.

Thank you. I don't think anyone would ever guess that you have a 27 year old son. No, it's hard for me to believe. I think a lot of people would guess that you're 27. I don't feel much older than that. I mean, I feel at a certain age, you just feel like you're more mature,

you're more experienced, but I'm like, I don't feel 44. I'm like, I still feel like really young. That's a good thing. That is a good thing. Yeah, I think I'm gonna stick with it, even if it's not. I feel mostly young.

Yeah, you're probably tired. You got a new baby. Yeah. Yeah, but honestly, I gotta say. That makes you tired. It does. It has not made me tired. Really?

No. You're special. It's made me tired. It's made me tired. I was really tired. Don't get me wrong, but just overall, it gives me energy. A happiness, and then.

That's really cool to hear. There's a motivating factor element. I'm not trying to sound like, oh my God, but I guess overall. Well, I can't say I had that experience with my son's dad. Well, how old were you when you had Austin? 16.

I was 15 when I got pregnant, 16 when I had him. Wow. And was that recently, did that recently come out on the show? Or did people know about this? I mentioned it. I think like once, I don't really talk about my past that much.

I did mention it. I think, I can't remember, I was with Amanda and Krishel or something. And I mentioned it in passing, but I haven't really dove into that because I don't know how production and editors are going to cut it and change it and stuff like that. I mean, they normally do a really good job

of keeping the storylines like what really happens, but that's my story and it's sensitive, and so I don't want it to be switched up where that's gonna come back on my son and he's like, what? That's not what you said. Exactly. Do you find that production

when it comes to those types of conversations, I mean, maybe you kind of already answered that question, but you would think that they would be willing to hear you out to say, hey, I'm open to talking about this aspect, but I would like some type of promises or guarantees. Are they ever interested in doing that?

Or I would think that, you know, when it comes to kids, I would think it's such a sensitivity or a fine line, you know, to wanna share that aspect of your life, but I completely understand where you're coming from. It's just like, all right, you can fuck with my edit and I understand what I signed up for and yada yada. But like when it comes to- Yeah, don't fuck with my kid.

And I would think that if a show wants, you know, their stars to be willing to bring in those other aspects, there would be a level of understanding. But do you feel like there is? I think with me, they probably would do that. And I think filming, Getting Ready to Film season nine, I think that they will be open to doing that because I just haven't opened up as much because of that.

But they did figure it out that actually there was a couple of seasons ago when I like broke down in the Sprinter van, like on the way when we were at that crazy Palm Springs trip, it was actually, I was freaking out because they were heading to a club and I do not go to clubs without my husband or without something I got. And I didn't tell them that because I hadn't talked about the rape to them.

I hadn't talked about anything, which is in the book, and explains everything. And I was like, I'm not going. I'm not going. And they were like, yes, everybody's going. And I was like, I just started having a panic attack. Like, and they didn't understand then. Finally, one of the producers was like, "'Hang on, this is not a normal reaction.'"

Because I was like, "'I can't, I can't, I can't.'" Having a panic attack, yeah. Yeah, but it looked like I couldn't handle the girls. And so I broke down at the end, and that's what it looked like. But that's not what it was. It was actually just a PTSD thing.

Triggered, yeah. From that. And so they are sensitive to things like that once they know. And so now I told them, I'll talk about everything on this show now. But I was like, I'm gonna get my story out there the right way where it's not like,

oh yeah, well we had to cut it because the other girls are like this happened. And so they cut it and it didn't tell the story. It didn't get key facts like where it could hurt somebody else or it could like change like what the story actually was. So I wanted to make sure I got my story out there first, tell people before they cut and chop it.

Yeah. Was that what inspired you to write the book? Kind of, yeah. Like, well, a couple of things. I have severe ADHD. And when I opened up about that, people were very, very thankful and they said how much it helped them

that they felt like they weren't the freak out there because it does, it makes you feel awkward. And so I did that and then I've got IBS and I knew a bunch of people have that, so I opened up about that too. And my husband's like, great. I was like, I know, sexy, right? I'm like, well know, sexy, right?

I'm like, well, you signed the favor, so I'm sorry. Hot girls have IBS. I'm like, it's a common thing. So I thought, you know what? It's life and whatever. What are you most proud of this book and what surprises, if any, can your audience expect by reading it? I think most of my audience thinks that I've just always been successful.

And I've had this great life, like, and, oh yeah, she just, yeah, she had baby young and she made it. Like, oh my God. They couldn't be further from the truth. My life has gone up and down, up and down. I've had something great and then lost it. And then up and down. And that is life.

Most people go through that, and most people go through these hurdles that you feel like you're never gonna get through, but you do. And so I just, I wrote it because, first of all, it helped, like with fertility, and with sexual abuse and domestic violence, and all these different things I've been through.

I feel like if they see how I got through, or what kind of helped me, the mindset, and then see, I actually, I didn't think I was going to be here either, but keep powering through. And I think it will surprise people how much I've actually gone through. My life's not been perfect. And so wherever they're at, they can just keep going. They can do it too. You're an extremely powerful example of that.

Cause I'm like, look at you now. Thank you. Well, I think anybody's capable of it. I mean there's luck that comes into it too like with the show but anybody's capable of it. You just have to, it's a mindset really like you have to just keep changing. No so do what you can, make the best of it, see the positive and move on. Yeah. Can we ask you some selling sunset questions? Absolutely. Sierra, you're up. I'm so excited.

Hey. Well, we've got, I've got a couple like just random questions and then I've also got like storyline stuff. How is the progress of the new Oppenheim offices coming along? Oh, it's, well, our LA office is done and it's absolutely stunning. It's I mean, Jason, as usual, just completely goes above and beyond.

Oh, my God. It is so ridiculous. But it's a lot of fun in there. Did you get all the features, the pool table, the arcade? Oh, yeah. Seriously. Yeah. So are we closing down Sunset? It's right next door. It's right next door. Yeah, because I door. Cause I know, I mean, I see all the papers on the, it's like, don't get too close to the windows. Don't like, cause I can imagine that's a tourist hotspot. I think we have to put up a little patio thing outside, like where we can walk in and out and stuff.

It's actually really distracting. We love the fans and we want to be able to go interact, but it's, I work from home now because again, my ADHD, I cannot focus, right? Like with everybody coming up, because I want to go engage. I want to say hi. And a lot of people come from like Australia and all these places. And I'm like, aww. And so I go out, but it's like, that's my whole day. Like I can't, I can't get any work done. So we're gonna put something up around it now that blocks it because we also have the tour buses

that go by every couple of minutes too. Yeah. Yeah. I forgot about those. Yeah, yeah. It gets pretty crazy. A big topic of conversation this season, the fashion has been upped.

Yeah. Upped. I saw a picture of, I think it was Emma and I don't know who else is in it, but it was like, they're at a coffee shop. And it was like the craziest outfits. Yeah. I think it's fun. Obviously we don't always go to work like that.

It's because you do hype it up for the show. Okay. Yeah, we do. I mean, we all still dress cute all the time, but I think it's just, you know, when we're filming, it's fun and the fans are looking for it. So it's like, I mean, a lot of times I would be in jeans and heels and a blazer or something,

but on the show it's like, ah, come on, okay, we can. I love your pumps. Let's do a little something. Oh, thank you. Did it happen organically, or was there ever like a conversation between the ladies being like, why don't we just also turn this into like a high fashion show? I feel like Christine was like the start

of just wearing crazy stuff. She probably was. She probably was the start of it, yeah. I mean, I think we all, in season one, I don't think we realized what the show was gonna be. We thought it was real estate. And so we're like, let's dress like we always do. And so then it started just getting elevated. It was just estate. And so we're like, let's dress like we always do. And so then it started just getting elevated.

I was just a natural thing. It just started getting elevated. And I don't know. Do you feel like there's kind of a little bit of like, not competition, but like, let's see who can kind of one up. I think for some of the girls, I don't even remember what I wore the day before. So I'm like, I don't care.

I wear what I think is cute and that's it. But I think for a lot of the girls, yeah, there's a little bit, but I think they're almost in competition with themselves more than each other. Like trying to just be like, have the better outfit than like last season and stuff like that.

But I think even Adam, he's like, what is happening right now? And he's always like, season and stuff like that, but I think even Adam Davila He's like what is happening? Like and he's always like no do it up do it up and and he's like So I mean it might have gotten a lot of hand but we're like ball gowns to the office I was like Your commentary on Nicole's outfit for your Brokers Open, where she comes in in like a bedazzled beaded cape to the floor and she was like, Mithi, Brokers Office. Interesting.

It was beautiful, don't get me wrong. Absolutely. It was kind of like Chelsea's outfit at the Brokers Open where I was like, you look really cute. Not really appropriate, not really for this setting, but whatever. Speaking of Christine, I know she's been in the news not too long ago for some difficult experiences.

Have any of you guys reached out? Has there been any contact whatsoever or has the entire cast kind of completely moved on from her? I don't know what the other cast members have done. I did reach out and she didn't get the text but I ran into her at an event. And so I talked to her and I said that,

you know, I'm just sorry for what she's going through. I've been through domestic violence and stuff like that and I get it, no one deserves it. And whether or not we are friends and hang out or talk, no one deserves that. And so I just wished her and her son the best and to stay safe. And if she needed anything, let me know.

Do we know how she's doing lately or she's? Somebody talked to her, I guess, a couple months ago, and they said that they saw that she was, I don't know, doing some sort of a campaign or something. So it looks like she's doing okay. I don't really follow or anything, but yeah, I wouldn't wish that situation on anybody. The pioneer town dinner.

I wouldn't wish that situation on anybody. The pioneer town dinner. Nicole lets slips kind of insinuates the idea that Emma is having an affair with a married man. The name Jen was said to try to remind you that you knew what she was talking about. Do you have any commentary on that? Is there truth to it? Can you say anything about it? Because I know some of the girls came to Emma's defense

saying, or I think it was Chelsea saying that it was complete bullshit. Okay. There was an element of truth to where that came from. And Amanda and I were there. I had no idea what she was talking about because it was like not an issue. Like we heard it and I were there. I had no idea what she was talking about because it was like not an issue. Like we heard it and I was like,

oh, well, I don't know anything about that. But I think Shin said something like, and my memory is like shit, so. But it was something along the lines of, hey, do you like Emma? And I was like, yeah, I do, she's sweet. And she's like, oh, I heard like she was like talking to my best friend's like husband.

They just got separated and she was talking to him. And I was like, so that's what it was. I was like, oh, I don't know anything about that. Right. That was it. And so, but it comes to, he was trying to buy a house cause they separated and he was trying to get a house.

And he did flirt with her from my understanding, but she shut it down. She's like, I approve of that. I shut it down. She's like, no, I like, you're cool, we can be friends, but like, and went back to this stuff. So this is my understanding. So Nicole didn't just make it up, but she exaggerated it

like into something and I don't, my heart hopes that she didn't do it intentionally. Maybe it just got exaggerated in her head. Yeah. I don't know. But you can't help but wonder if she did it for, I mean, with the TV element, we all know that we love to, on reality TV, cast members make

mountains out of, was it molehills? Yeah, mountains out of molehills. I am, but that's why I would really, because she's a friend, and I've always loved her, and I do love her. I just, I hope that that wasn I would really, because she's a friend and I've always loved her and I do love her. I just, I hope that that wasn't the intention because you don't fuck with someone's life like that. Like-

It does seem to happen a lot though with your cast. It does. I've never done it. Just saying, just saying. The least problematic of the cast. I know. I'm always in the middle of it. You're definitely the least messiest.

I know, right? Yeah, I do my best. Have Crishell and Nicole kind of... No. No. No. See? No, no. And then we love Krishelle, but she's a little messy queen. I think she did really well this season though.

Yeah, she did, right? Compared to last season for sure. I thought, I actually texted her and I was like, girl, I think you did really well. Like you were like me. Yeah, I was like, you know what I'm saying? Right? I was like, girl, I think you did really well. Like you were like me. Yeah, that's what I felt like. Right? I was like, I was proud of you.

This is like the you that everybody else gets to see. Like what I know, the really sweet, loving part and in a couple of seasons before I'm like, well, honey, this is like, what's going on? What's going on? I was like, what's happening? But yeah, I've always loved Kershaw. I know people always say that we don't get along

and like, oh, it's so sad you aren't friends with her. You betrayed her. I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. She was just at my book launch party last night. We're good, we've always been good. We just like, you know, life, we grew apart. And yeah, she was her. Like I wasn't there as much, much when her and Jason broke up,

but we've been okay. I think that got blown out of proportion, but her and Nicole and Emma and Nicole and Chelsea and Nicole and I think everybody in the group right now are not so great. And who is brief in the clicks with? Like who does she hang out with? I talk to her all the time. Yeah, Amanda, me. Yeah, but you talk to her all the time, so it's yeah

Amanda everyone I Mean I know that answers like like every season. I'm like I talk to everybody. I Well, I don't love everybody but I'm like I'm good with everybody like you know do your thing and don't hurt people That's my role. Well, let live well Mary, it's been so fun catching up with you. Congratulations on the new book. The book is called Selling Sunshine. Selling Sunshine.

Selling Sunshine. Selling Sunshine. Stuff for me to say. Available wherever you get books. Audio? Audio, yeah, audio. It's at Amazon. Did you do the audio?

I did. Is that so hard? Yes, it is. Oh my God. Did you do the audio? I did. Is that so hard? Yes it is. Oh my God. Did you do it? Oh my God. It was so brutal. There were times that I had to read one sentence.

It took me five minutes to get through a sentence. I had to really warm up. I'm dyslexic so it was real embarrassing. I had to apologize constantly. Yeah, it was really humiliating for me, but I did it. Yeah, and it's an accomplishment once you do it because my ADD too. I was like, my assistant actually called the people and they were like,

so she might have to have like some breaks in between. And then I was like, sorry. My book was maybe the first book I had actually started and finished in 20 some years. Really? Congrats. Congratulations. Thank you very much.

Yes, yours will be the second. Oh, I hope so. Yeah, it's good. I've had really great reviews. Well, we appreciate you coming. Congratulations again, and we wish you all the best, Mary. Thank you. Bye guys.

Okay, it's time to get into Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. I'm really proud of us guys, I just want to say. We really have been carrying season five of Salt Lake City. I think we need to be more cool about it. You think so? Yeah, I think we need to be like, this is just a podcast, it's no big deal. It literally happens all the time,

like who gives a fuck? Yeah, sure, for sure. All right, from this moment forward, we'll be cool about it. We're cool, we're cool. Yeah, we're so cool. Question for you, Justin. Yes.

You know, obviously I'm newer to Salt Lake City, so I haven't really get into the fandom of seasons one through three. But it seems like, I'm almost surprised because it's just, it's a fan of the show. I'm just less of a Lisa fan, more of a Whitney fan. But it really seems like a lot of people give Whitney a really hard time in this franchise.

Yeah. Like what is that from? And they really seem to stan Lisa, which I'm glad she's got fans, but I'm just like. What is there to hate about Whitney? Yeah, I mean, the way that I see it, Lisa versus Whitney, is people love Lisa because one, she's authentic. In the sense of like, I'm gonna drink

and eat fast food at 24 seven, not care about it, not know how to cook, love my husband, but also make my husband do everything. So she kind of presents as if like everything was authentic. And then season two, she had a hot mic moment. She used to be best friends with Meredith, Lisa. And then towards the end of season two, Lisa had this hot mic where you don't see her, she's a whore, she's fucked half of the Upper East Side of New York. Like, I hate Meredith and her fake family that poses. Like, she like said all these outrageous things about her best friend.

And Meredith has even said like, that could have canceled you, but that made you a star. So like from season two, that hot mic moment, people are like, she's iconic, she's authentic. She'll say whatever she wants to say. On the contrary, Whitney, she's like, she's like, she's like, she's like, she's like, she's like, she's like, she's like, she's like, she's like, she's like, she's like, she's like, she's like, she's like, she's like, she's, that hot mic moment, people are like, she's iconic, she's authentic, she'll say whatever she wants to say. On the contrary, Whitney, she has a higher pitched voice. And I say that because people, audience members

say that she's like little. And then Mary Cosby coined the term little girl. So it's like, not only is she younger, but she has a higher pitched voice that's kind of squeaky at times. And she says like healing instead of healing. And then also on top of that, she's like the only cast member,

or not only, but the one that uses her kind of storyline to be like, I'm healing, I'm trying to learn, I'm trying to mentally grow versus everybody else's like, they think authenticity is attacking instead of like pulling back. Like that's how I see the comparison. Okay, thanks for breaking that down for us. Lisa doesn't read authentic to me.

I mean, that's just one person's opinion, but like. I think she does. I mean, she's willing to talk shit, but just the whole. No, I think she very much owns that she is loud and she is, you know, like I feel like she, I feel like she's definitely authentic. Yeah, I think so. I think with Whitney though,

the thing is that like Whitney does her job, okay? And so like she does bring up the dramas, the things that we're talking about, where it was all of the rumors about Mary Cosby. Nobody would go up against Mary Cosby. Whitney's the one that says it on camera and opens it up. So it's like, I think people got upset with her thinking that she's always stirring the pot

when she's actually giving you content and asking the questions that we want to talk about. Lisa is fun. Lisa's a character, Lisa's somebody that you can dress up as a Halloween costume and people would get it. So I feel like that's why people love Lisa. Nobody knows anything about Lisa

besides what she chooses to share. And then Whitney is like, here's all of me. And I think that also sometimes rubs people the wrong way. I guess that's the way you just said it. I think Lisa knows how to present as authentic, but I think she's far more calculated than I guess maybe some of her fans think. Like Mary to me is authentic,

and the fact that she's not planning on saying something, it just comes out of her mouth, where I just feel like Lisa is very intentional, other than maybe the hot mic moment, which really isn't even her doing, it's more of she's in a bathroom, not planning on her stuff being recorded. And again, maybe she planned that as well.

I don't know, but I don't know. I just. I think it's like Heather with the receipts, screenshots, timelines, that whole thing of it all. Like that's made Heather a star. Yeah. So I think Lisa had that moment. And like now whatever Lisa does,

she has like a whole fan base of reality TV fans like behind her. Okay. Versus Whitney hasn't had that moment yet. And she's got a cute little like nickname. So we all call her baby gorgeous. She made up herself. Like, you know what I mean?

So it's like, she's very much told us who she is as a character and then you just subscribe to it. Versus Whitney is like, well, here's what I'm dealing with. And this is how I feel. And this is how somebody else made me feel. But I think she's shining this season in my opinion. Whitney, yeah. I agree.

I think that Whitney is incredibly vulnerable in a way that a lot of people don't appreciate because it's messy and it's not perfect. And I think that Lisa is in her own way, very standoffish to that amount of vulnerability because she is not good at being vulnerable in that way. I mean, you saw it last season when Whitney was dealing with a devastating loss of her friend. And then Lisa just does not know how to handle any situation that isn't either fun, jokey, or about herself. Yep.

When she was talking to Angie, and then she was talking about how Angie just doesn't understand her or whatever. When she was talking to Angie, and then she was talking about how Angie just doesn't understand her or whatever, and she was basically saying, if you would just agree with me, we would get along. You know?

Like, okay. Of course. I guess. I don't know. No, totally. And I think that's why she kind of has an issue with Whitney or just like anybody who speaks out against her or like, cause that's what she says.

It's, you're talking about feelings, not facts, but at the same time, her feelings are still valid just because you don't agree with what's being said about your character based off of how you feel about yourself doesn't mean that you didn't make somebody else feel a certain type of way. But Lisa, instead of doing what she wants Angie to do is to listen and accept what I'm saying and agree with it.

She says, no, I didn't do that to you and that's all your fault. So, you know, she's not very open to criticisms or, you know, being open to fixing issues. She's impossible to have like a true dialogue with because it's like it's very sheena shea. It's very much like how is this affecting Lisa Barlow versus like, can you just be a good friend? I will say the first interaction I ever had with the housewife was Lisa Barlow and she was sweet.

So like outside of the show, she is like a genuine person. So I think it's just her character that's like. Yeah. I would love to meet Lisa. She's probably one of my best. Yeah. We are the podcast.

I did notice something too for the Salt Lake City fans that every time someone throws a glass on the ground, they leave the show, either the next season or the season after. So Jenny did it, gone. Also she was problematic. Jen Shaw did it, gone. Also she's problematic. Jen Shaw did it, gone. Also problematic.

Lisa did it last episode. Not saying she's problematic, but I'm like, canon of Salt Lake City is, you throw the glass, you're out. And you're the villain. Interesting that that's like, they kick him out over. That's like what we love about Housewives. Yeah, that's my own.

Oh. That's his own theory. That's my own theory, but. What if Lisa just really like, just becomes a full ad partner for Wendy's? What if she becomes Wendy? Which she did in the center. Yeah, a nice little product placement.

I'm a little disappointed they didn't showcase the Frosties. Yeah. Because it's definitely the best thing in the menu. I will say they did their job. It made me want Wendy's. Yeah. I mean, I always want Wendy's. Why are Frosties?

She's not the Frosties. She's the Coke. Which thanks to our Real Housewives of Mormon wives, girlies, we now understand why Lisa drinks so much soda. Yeah. Real Housewives of Mormon wives. Whatever. Same thing.

It's too much Salt Lake City. That's a lot of Mormonism. I really wanna go to Salt Lake now. They just announced another selling Mormon houses, whatever this title is, but there's a new Bravo show for essentially selling Sunsets, but in Salt Lake City. Do you think we'll see any of Meredith's past rentals?

Probably. Probably her current one. I gotta say, I've been pleasantly surprised with the new Housewives. Okay. Okay. Say more. I don't know, I just feel like it's only been two episodes, but I'm interested. Obviously we knew that they had to replace Monica.

Those are big shoes to fill, regardless of what you think of Monica. And I'm just intrigued. For two episodes in to new characters to even give a shit is still something. We know their names. I think that's always a big thing when there's new characters added,

you're like, no, no, no, the one that wore the thing. I'm still- Rawan and Brittany. See, Brittany is the name I'm still quite forgetting. She's making herself known. Yeah, she really, she popped off this episode and she stood up to Mary. Mary coming after Brittany

for how she's mothering her children is so incredibly low. And I think motherhood is like your toxic ex-boyfriend. Like when it's good, it's so good. And when it's bad, it's so fucking cruel. And motherhood is a group of women who have all been through, you know, similar experiences. You relate to each other. You know what each other has been through. You know,

you feel like you're the only person in the world who has been through this or has, you know, their child is doing this. And then you talk to another mother and they're like, Oh my gosh, I, you know, I went through the same thing. It makes you feel not alone. And it's so empowering. It's so safe. It they're like, oh my gosh, I went through the same thing, it makes you feel not alone. And it's so empowering, it's so safe, it's so like you can lean on other mothers, it's such a community. And then when it's bad, it is so cruel and scary

and they make you feel like scum on the bottom of a shoe and that you are like the worst mother on the planet. And it's just really scary that it's two polar opposites and it's usually the scary that it's two polar opposites and it's usually the scary end that is more common. And so I feel like for Mary to throw her trauma onto Brittany, like what Mary went through as a child is terrible, it is devastating, that is trauma

and I do hope she can eventually heal from that. But to throw that onto Brittany and like accuse her of doing what her mother did to her, it's like that's fucked up, you can't do that. It's definitely harsh. I mean, I hear what you're saying. I appreciate Mary at least giving us the context of where it was coming from.

Because at least I could understand it rather than it just feeling like a dig. But she didn't give us, she didn't give any of the women that context. She gave it to us in ITM. So for all the other women and for Brittany, it just felt like an attack on Brittany's mothering, which is fucked up.

It's kind of reminded me of Emily and Jen from Orange County this past season, or this season going on right now too, where it was like, Emily was triggered by Jen, so therefore is attacking Jen, but it's like, no, your issues with your mom. I mean, it's fucked up, but there are bad parents out there.

There's a lot of parents out there who choose themselves over their kids all the time. Which Brittany did admit to this episode playing pickleball with Heather. She's like, listen, I definitely am guilty of sacrificing my kids for a man's affection. So I'm like, it's also not something that she's not aware of, but at the same time, yes, I think having somebody else

state in a group of women that you're a bad mom or insinuate in that type of way, like that it's not fair either. I can understand why anyone would be insanely triggered by criticism about in their parenting styles, justified or not. Because it's just you're gonna that's gonna be an incredibly sensitive topic. On the flip end, when you introduce your kids into the storyline or just you as a parent, it just might bring in criticisms about your parenting styles, which again, there's a lot of parenting choices

that people don't subscribe to. It's a very sense, there's a huge spectrum. For me, it just feels like I'm not in a position to judge Brittany for her choices. It's like, I think her sacrificing her children for male attention stems from something deeper and maybe she's aware of that, maybe she's not, maybe that's something we'll learn in the future.

It did seem like she was like, I have a story to tell and like, I'm not comfortable currently sharing that, but I have been through a lot. And so I think for people to quickly judge and call her a bad mom and you know, I just feel like it's icky. I mean, out of the gates, it's harsh to be your second episode and to have your parenting be your main storyline at this

point is harsh. To be fair, I'm like, because we don't even, all we got from her was that her two daughters don't speak to her, but like, we don't know what the context of that is about. So I don't know. It's one of those things too, where I'm like, I don't know, trying to get overly comfortable in a situation where you don't know people, and especially somebody as temperamental, let's say as Mary, it's like, I also don't feel like this was the safe space for you to share this and feel like you were going to get comforted in any type of way.

Does that make sense? It felt to me like she like dipped her toe in the water to see like, is this a safe place? And it was like, let me just share like a little glimpse of my life. And for Mary to immediately backfire, it's like, yeah, no, I was right. Like you just said, like this is not the place

where I wanna tell you anything about me. I mean, Mary offered her no grace, that's for sure. Neither did Bronwyn, fuck Bronwyn. She's sitting there being like, you're ever since you've come into this group, you're chaotic and unhinged. It's like, what the fuck? She's a little mean girlish.

Mean girl. I like Bronwyn's aesthetic. What? But I'm like, just her act, I like it. I like it. She's giving like rich, I know what actual art is, I'm gonna put it in my house. It's also very the nanny.

I mean, listen, who am I to have aesthetic opinions? But her house gives like young tech billionaire, like. It gives David Dobrik. Yeah. And Logan Paul, Jake Paul. Like if Logan Paul decorated a house, that's how her house seems decorated. But hers is intentional.

You can tell those art pieces are art pieces. You don't think Logan Paul or David Dobrik intentionally decorated their house? That looks cool. Put it in. She has a stack of chairs with light down the middle. David Dobrik, we have been to his house. He has a Lego, it's all made out of Lego framed like banana. And it's like, what's, where's the difference?

Can I give you a history lesson? Please. So there's this art movement Dadaism. Essentially what came out of that was ready-mades type of art where you basically grab something and you say, this is art. So for example, Marcel Duchamp had a urinal. He put his signature on it, a fake signature and said, this is art. So the stack of chairs is to me, it looks like an homage to Duchamp or like Dadaism,

where it's like no matter what an artist claims to be art, just them claiming it to be art is empowering within itself. So kind of like a controlling your own aesthetic, controlling your own future. So that's where like her, I'm like, okay, that's intentional. Like someone's not putting something like that without knowing like art. So that's where I think she's more like of I'm rich enough to know also the history behind what I'm. Yeah, she understands the history and she also has like an amazing sense of humor about the art.

Like it's very much like she is completely aware of the aesthetic that she has created and it's a vibe, it's great. I do feel like her and Mary would get along because their houses are both crazy. Yeah, I am obsessed with looking at both of them. They should have a house off. Oh my God, yes.

The ultimate MTV cribs. Wasn't Mary pissed off when Heather like made fun of her chairs? Yes, Dr. Seuss chairs. That's when she called her inbred. Oh no. Yes. That being said, Bronwyn is very out there. I'm with you on that.

She is kind of presenting fake, I'm not gonna lie, where the two-faced comments, where it's like, if you're gonna repeat what you said, repeat exactly what you said, and don't try to make it lesser than to whomever you're talking to that wasn't present. Because the tone in which you said it to Lisa and Heather was bitchy, it was like, I was sitting there with tears.

And then when you say it to Whitney, it's like laughing and funny and like a joke, and like, and power, you said it in the mirror a couple times, like, it was completely different, and I agree with you, Sierra. I was a little confused at the end where Heather tried to call out Brawn, and it seemed like Heather wanted to have Whitney's back,

but Whitney was almost like having Brawn's back and almost turning around back on Heather. I was a little confused by that. Other than the fact that it does seem like if there is a producer pet in this cast, it really seems to be Heather. Heather just said that the discrepancy of like, you said that you were laughing, crying.

I agree with Heather. And I think if she would have gone into more detail about the way she said it and kind of what else she said in the context, then I feel like Whitney probably would have been a little bit more pissed, but I think Whitney just thinks that that's how she said it to everyone, and that's not real. Also, Bronwyn kind of played dumb, so I think like Heather coming out of nowhere

and the Bronwyn being like, I don't know what you're talking about. And then Lisa also being like, well, like nothing. So then it's like Heather looks like the dumb one there. Yeah. Okay. But I feel like Heather was calling out. I understood Heather, yeah. It seemed like Bronwyn was being a bit of a hypocrite and playing both sides.

And then Lisa just quiet where it's just like, you were there, girly. You started the conversation. She's like, I don't know. Like for once in her life, Lisa Barlow had nothing to say. Right. And then Bronwyn's mad at Lisa for like saying that she was a little. What was the word? Like cocky or something like Lisa insinuated that Bronwyn was kind of like jabbing a little bit, anyways.

I can't think of the word. I'm trying to think of the moment. There's something about Bronwyn though. As much as I'm very visually intrigued by her, I do feel like there is a potential, I don't know her that well yet, we have just met, that there could be something kind of very, very, very insidious about her.

And it's based on the fact that all of her dogs are named after House of Cards characters. Oh. Why? And I do think Heather had a good read on like, I tend to not trust people when they have such a strong opinion on people they just met. Mm-hmm.

Which I very much agree with. And she did seem to have in the car with Lisa and Heather a very strong opinion About Whitney and then with Whitney it was the complete opposite. So yeah, the House of Cards one, too It's just like like you're familiar with House of Cards. It is this all about deception lies Yeah, and politics and a lot of other just like cultural implications of House of Cards in general and also it's I don't know how old her dogs are, but depending on the year in which she had the dogs since like Kevin Spacey being the star of House of Cards,

it's just an interesting, interesting show to name all of your dogs after. Something to note. Something that I'm not gonna forget. I do wanna know more about her and her husband's relationship. Yeah, I kinda like him. Jason Osmond. No, no, that's the other one. That's Brittany. We'll get there. Yeah, I kinda like him. Jason Osmond.

No, no, that's the other one. That's Brittany. We'll get there. Oh, he's the CEO. He was the one in the cute sweater. He was the ex-Palm Pilot CEO, which I don't know if he's been good with his money, but he's gotta be stupid rich.

Yep. That's wealth right there. Nick asked me, he's like, what does he do? And I said, own things. He did say that. He just owns a couple things. Something like son's husband, I don't know. Yeah.

But he truly is like, was an OG tech executive. Yeah. Because what? Did PalmPilot get sold like BlackBerry probably? Something like that? Yeah, exactly, I'm not sure. But there was a time, and it sounds like it, when he was running it, that PalmPilot was-

The thing. PalmPilot was the iPhone of mobile devices back in the day. So he must be fucking loaded. What do you think of Melee? This is the other friend of, that's Whitney's friend. I feel like we didn't really meet her. I liked her pigtails. Other than Mary's comment about her.

Yeah. Little tone deaf. Yeah, she seemed to speak up a little bit at the table with all the girls, but- At the end, but I believe it was, really? I was like, I thought you were here. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it's all us. She also had the sys count of like how many times

she said sys. 20 times. Impressive. First of all, the ropes course, Mary did have me dying during that when she was just like up there and she's like, we all hate this, Lisa, shut up. Like, I could never do that. I kind of like Mary's tone deafness.

I kind of do too. You have to respect it. It's zany. I kinda like Mary's tone deafness. I kinda do too. You have to respect it. It's zany. I don't know if I respect it, cause you know, cause it can be tone deaf, but it's more like she has the guts to say it. She doesn't give a fuck. Agree or disagree with her.

You truly know how Mary feels. Yes. And it always seems like Mary's shooting from the hip. It's made for TV. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it is a breath of fresh air. And also like it does seem to be,

this does seem to be a new version of Mary. Yeah. What do you mean? It seems more fun. She seems like a different wife. Well, last, again, like I'm basing this off of last season. She just really seemed, Mary seemed to be like a household adjacent.

Like she was part of the cast. She didn't really involve herself in the groups. It was always like all the housewives. And then it would be like a pan to Mary, kind of separate from whatever else was going on. And now Mary is, I mean, hell, I just, if I based everything I knew from season four, I would have guessed that Mary wouldn't have done

the ropes course. You know what I'm saying? I would have been like, there's no way she would have fucking done that. Do you think she has to now because she is- I have a theory. So Mary was on it season one through two. And basically there were storylines

and three she wasn't right? No, she took up. Three she took right, yeah. So there were storylines attacking her church, her job, her money, her family. And then she disappeared because she was like, I don't wanna be part of this. Like the reunion,

she didn't really wanna talk about it either. Season three she took off. Season four, they convinced her to come back as a friend. So my theory is that she was like, OK, I'm going to come back and be me. But like, things are off limits. Like nobody's attacked or talked about the storylines that she left off. Like, it's completely a new Mary. No facts.

So I think that's why you're seeing her unhinged, because she's like, I know that I'm protected. Yeah. This is all theory. No, fucks. So I think that's why you're seeing her unhinged because she's like, I know that I'm protected. Yeah. This is all speculation. I think that Jen being gone, I think it's like I had a really hard time watching Mary when Jen was also there because having two people in very, very completely different ways that are just like living in different planes of reality

than everyone else. Mary, yeah. Yeah, and Jen as well, but in a very, very sinister way. And I think having both of them at the same time was just too much. And by the end of season two, I was just like, personally as a viewer, I was like, I can't do this anymore.

And when Mary was gone, I was like, okay. Now it's just- You need her back. Yeah. And then by the time the whole Jen stuff happened, I was like, okay, can we have like kooky fun Mary again? And it was perfect. She's known to have said problematic things

pre like her return. Like there's a quote of her being saying like, Jen scares me because she looks like a Mexican thug. And it's like, Jen's not even Mexican. And that's also like a harmful statement to say. So it's like, she's known to say tone deaf stuff, just this season it's like blow after blow after blow, like not holding back.

Yeah, I don't agree with everything she says. Obviously I wouldn't say most things she says, but there is a level of like, holy shit, I can't believe she said that. That just brings something that- It reads authenticity. And we need it sometimes. It needs to like break up like the drama.

Then all of a sudden you get a cut from like Mary talking about she won't eat something because it gives you gas. And it's like, well, okay, we're back, you know? Or what, getting a yeast infection from the tub. Exactly, like I won't do that. Like, okay. Maybe that's why Meredith and Mary fall out.

Oh. Question, is it a hard launch, soft launch or no launch at all posting about your relationship at Costco and being called the best friend. I really felt for my knee there. I did too. I did too. I mean, say what you want, we obviously talked about it.

She's clearly someone who struggles with her relationship. And when she talks about her 16 breakups, I'm guessing he's broken up with her 16 times. And for whatever reason, she has a hard time standing up for herself or being her partner's equals, whatever it is. I feel for her because she is reaching so bad for some kind of connection with her partner. Obviously it opens up a lot of criticism for how she handles herself in relationships,

but it's a vulnerable thing. I think it's easy to tease someone for treating that as a relationship watch, knowing that it's clearly not, was someone who struggled. So it's just, yeah, I mean, obviously it wasn't. And it just, I really felt for her. It didn't seem really harsh. I mean, she did seem very excited. It was a win for her.

It was a win for her, but I'm glad the girls told her the truth behind it, because I do feel like she needed to hear that that wasn't a launch, a hard launch on Instagram. A Costco Instagram story. With your best friend. With your best friend. Yeah.

That reads, if other women I'm hooking up with read this. It's nothing serious. She's just impressed. I'm still available. He's also the nephew of Donnie and Marie Osmond and aren't the Osmonds like royalty in the Mormon culture? I believe so. Donnie and Marie musicians?

Yeah. Actors, I think. Childhood actors from Vegas, residency, tennis. Yeah. Yeah. I'm surprised Brittany's just a friend of. So like, she's a friend of, so she's not a main housewife,

because she's not on the cover, the main sequence. Bronwyn is though. She seems like on her way. Yeah, you would think so. I'm really impressed and pleasantly surprised with how entertained I have been with the absence of Monica, which was obviously the big question mark, but so far so great.

And next episode, they go to my hometown Milwaukee. That's exciting. I didn't realize, I never expected Milwaukee to get a little love in Bravo Universe. And the bar, apparently the go-to, Trixie'sie's bar they're talking about my sister Clark worked at fun fact amazing I'm curious to see what other Milwaukee landmarks we'll get to see next week you're like instead of six degrees of Kevin Bacon you're like one degree of Salt Lake City yeah very excited well thank you guys for

listening it's been a jam-packed episode be sure to check out the podcast the episode with Whitney Rose if you haven't that dropped yesterday thank you guys for listening. It's been a jam-packed episode. Be sure to check out the podcast, the episode with Whitney Rose, if you haven't, that dropped yesterday. Thank you to Mary and Elizabeth Wagmeister for joining us this episode. We'll see you next week. Bye!