The Viall Files - E820 - Joey and Kelsey Return, Monica from Love is Blind, RHOSLC, RHOC, and Ugly Halloween Costumes

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey moms, looking for some lighthearted guidance on this crazy journey we call parenting? Join me, Sabrina Kohlberg. And me, Andi Mitchell, for Pop Culture Moms. Where each week we talk about what we're watching. And examine our favorite pop culture moms up close to try to pick up some parenting hacks along the way. Come laugh, learn, and grow with us as we look for the best tips. And maybe a few what not to do's from our favorite fictional moms. From Good Morning America and ABC Audio,

Starting point is 00:00:29 pop culture moms, find it wherever you get your podcasts. You're crazy. What's going on everybody? What's going on? I'm back with another episode of What's Going On? and I'm gonna be talking about the best tips for you guys. What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another electric episode of the Vile Viles Reality Recap Edition.

Starting point is 00:00:55 I am your host Nick. We got the household in the studio. Did you guys have a great weekend? Absolutely. Oh my God. Yes. Yes, I did. What did you do? I went to brunch. That's pretty much what I do every weekend.

Starting point is 00:01:06 I went shopping. Saturday and Sunday, or just one of the two days? Just Saturday, and the Dodgers played, so I did learn a little, I had a little crossover moment. Wow. Because I cannot say his name, but the baseball player that got screwed over with the OC lawsuit situation, relevant.

Starting point is 00:01:23 I was like, oh. You saw him? No, like they were talking about him,. I was like, oh. You saw him? No, like they were talking about him. And I was like, wait, that's the guy. And it clicked for me. I don't know. That's my biggest sports correlation. Wow.

Starting point is 00:01:33 Okay. Why haven't you ever asked us to go to brunch with you on Saturday? It is her favorite thing to do. Yeah, it is. I don't know, cause I feel like you guys are always busy. I mean, sure. Yeah, we often are.

Starting point is 00:01:43 I don't know. Didn't you guys go to a football game? Sunday. We did Sunday. But Saturday, I think we just went. We went to brunch. Went to brunch. Oh, wait, that's weird.

Starting point is 00:01:53 I wasn't texted about it. Well, we're parents, and we just figured, you know, Sierra is like popular and has places. That's like, why would Sierra just want to like come with the family? Oh my god, that's all I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's going to be like, while I was here, just wanna like come with the family. Oh my God, that's all I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:02:06 It's gonna be like Sierra wants to like be like in the club. Sierra like wants to like go and like be on the table, like twerking and it's like, I'm thriving. Where do you go to brunch? My favorite spot is Casita right now in Sherman Oaks. It's really good Mexican food, really good drinks. For brunch? Yeah. What time you eatin'? Oh, that's another thing too food, really good drinks. For brunch. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:02:25 What time you eatin'? Oh, babe, that's another thing too. I go to brunch at like one. Oh. Yeah. So lunch. Like 12.45, yeah. So that is lunch.

Starting point is 00:02:32 That is lunch. The mimosas and the drink specials are typically still going until like 2.30, but yeah. You wake up early, what are you doing from like five to one o'clock? I went to Sculpt. I feel like y'all are just really getting in my business. I went to Sculpt. I feel like y'all are just really getting in my business. I went to Sculpt before and then I got ready

Starting point is 00:02:47 and then I met up with my friend Autumn and then we went and had brunch and then I went to her house with her husband and friends were over watching the baseball game and I played with her son. So I actually am a family girl. She's a family girl. I also went to Pilates Saturday morning

Starting point is 00:03:03 and it was not a good look for me. Oh, why? Well, I did throw up mid-Pilates. It did. And it was very unfortunate because I was like, okay, I'm not feeling very good. Okay, I need, maybe I need water. I need water.

Starting point is 00:03:17 I, Ricky mistake, I didn't bring my own water. So I like go over to where the waters are and I take one out of the fridge. And I'm like, no, I need to go to the restroom. And there's already someone in the restroom. So I'm like, let me just, and he's still teaching the class. I'm like, let me just go back to my reformer. So I go back and he's like, come on, like you can do it.

Starting point is 00:03:33 Like cheer me on. I'm like, no, no, no, I actually, I do it. Is there only one restroom? He's like, there's only one. I'm like, okay, I have to go. And so thankfully, as soon as I walk over there, the girl comes out, I go in, yak it all up, yak city, yak city, come out, and the class is ending.

Starting point is 00:03:47 And I'm like, oh, thank God. And then a sweet woman was like, hi, are you, like, I love the podcast. And I was like, please, like, I just, yeah, like, you don't want to get too close. This isn't like, it was bad. It was really bad. And now I am so incredibly sore that I'm like, I felt nauseous the whole rest of the day. Now I'm so sore, I'm like,

Starting point is 00:04:09 God, I don't think I can do this again. But Lottie's tough. It's so fucking hard. We haven't worked out. But also, the thing is, is like anytime I did any other workouts, because I've worked out post-baby and post-wedding, and I've been sore, but it's like,

Starting point is 00:04:23 okay, my legs are a little sore. This is a full body soreness, like my arms, my back, my legs, my butt, my toes, everything is sore. No. Not the toes. We haven't, as a couple, it's been a maybe, maybe I like threw a run in there, but we haven't worked out period in like five or six weeks. Well, when she was at Pilates, River took a nap,

Starting point is 00:04:42 and I was in our street, cause I couldn't go far, just running back and forth. First time I worked out in maybe a month, I'm sore too. Did you work out because she worked out? Yeah. Yeah, I was like, okay. Aw, but that's cute though. I should do something, I haven't done shit in like a month.

Starting point is 00:04:56 He felt motivated by me being like, I have to go to a class. Yeah, he's like, okay, shit. He's like, no, me too, I have a class too. I just ran back and forth outside our front door. Good for you. Yeah, and then we went to a football game. Then we went to the football game.

Starting point is 00:05:09 Go pack. You played football, right? Not actually. Well, Nick, Nick. I saw that little story. Nick, Nick. You were like, go far? Almost cut, oh, well yes, of course.

Starting point is 00:05:18 But he did catch the foul ball, Matthew Stafford threw an incomplete pass. I got a ball. And it did go into Nick's hands. It was pretty great. And I was on TV. We were on TV. Oh! Yeah, you can't really make us out. Like when Tucker Kraft... It could be anyone.

Starting point is 00:05:33 It could be anyone. But that's definitely me. Look how long my arms are. I'm back there cheering, right? Yeah. Oh, that's so exciting for you. I thought Tucker was going to run me over. I thought he was going to maybe do a Lambo leap at so if I steady on but you were just there I literally I was like hey He was I don't know if Tucker was like

Starting point is 00:05:55 So like I I got a little confession One of my favorite things to do now is is the slide in the DMs of some of my favorite players. I realized, like, I'm like, I never would do this ever, you know? But I was like, you know, I'm kind of famous. I'm like, I have the smallest amount of clout, a little bit of a following. So every once in a while, when a player I enjoy watching does well, I'll just like send them a note being like, hey, big fan, good game. I try to keep it simple. I try not to like a note being like, hey, big fan, good game. I try to keep it simple. I try not to make them feel like I'm gonna be intrusive

Starting point is 00:06:30 with questions. I try to act like I could be their friend. And honestly, they all reply. I'm like, yeah, they all reply. Dylan Reed did? Jaden? Did he respond? He did, yeah.

Starting point is 00:06:42 He did, what'd he say? You don't tell me, what'd he say? He said, anytime, bro. Because I said, thanks for taking the time, because after the game, we had seats in the end zone, and it was right where the Packer players walked in and out of their locker room. Okay.

Starting point is 00:06:53 After the game, we were told that they- We were going to leave, and then the security people were like, just to let you know, the players come right back out, and we were like, oh! Okay. I mean, well, I got a ball, I'm like, maybe I can get someone to autograph this.

Starting point is 00:07:05 I've never looked like more of a fan. I think you're probably like a little child. No, like as they're coming out, he's like, wicks, wicks, wicks, wicks. And they're like still walking by. And now he's like, do you want to go over there? I'm like, and I really appreciate Natalie, because she gave me permission to be a fan, because I was like, this could get very, and she was like, it's cute.

Starting point is 00:07:25 Because I was like, this is gonna get real icky, real fast. Maybe like, ah! Like, you know. Yeah, so anyways, I caught a ball. And then Luke Musgrave tied in for the Packers. One of the guys I kind of DM'd, and he responded. We've kind of, you know. It's going well.

Starting point is 00:07:42 His, I believe fiance, Maddie, he was like, she's a big fan of our show. Oh, yeah. Shout out Maddie. Shout out Maddie, if you're listening. We're trying to get dinner with him. We're trying to be friends. We're trying, yeah.

Starting point is 00:07:54 But it was- So here's a little nerve wracking. For my birthday, my PR team got me, I'm really in my Packer fan era. Yeah. I'm still waiting on that birthday present from Natalie. It's still head of shop. Okay, well one, the shoes did

Starting point is 00:08:08 and then he didn't even fucking wear them to the game. He's like, I think they're a little too tight. I really love the shoes, but I'm not sure if they're, I need to size up a little bit anyways, because I really quite like them. So my PR team got me a signed Packer football and it's from Luke Musgrave. Because they were like, well, we saw that you follow him

Starting point is 00:08:27 so we thought you were a fan and I am a fan of Luke. I'm not trying to say Luke that I'm not a fan of your game. It was just more like, I'm trying to be friends with this motherfucker, you know? But I sent him, I was like, hey, my team got me a signed ball of yours and he's like, yeah, cool. And then he's like, yeah, great. Thanks for supporting. Then he's walking out of the locker room.

Starting point is 00:08:47 I'm like, Luke! I think he thinks I might be stalking him. I'm a little worried about that. But now Nick has two balls with Luke Musgrave signature. Cause he signed another ball. So now I have two, two Luke Musgrave autographed footballs. What do you do with an autographed football? I don't know.

Starting point is 00:09:03 It just sits on the mantle. That's what I said to Nick. I said, you need an office so that we can put these in like shadow boxes on like a shelf because right now they, you know. Rolling around. Jaden Reed came out, star, number 11, awesome. Great fit.

Starting point is 00:09:16 Had a crazy catch. Also great style, just really cool player, up and coming superstar. He also signed the football. So shout out to Jaden Reed. Thank you. You probably don't listen to this show. But So shout out to Jayden Reed. Thank you. You probably don't listen to the show. But if the word gets around Jayden, we appreciate you.

Starting point is 00:09:29 But yeah, he wrote back. So I now slide into the DMs of my fair players. And then the security officers were like, there are six minutes left. And it was like, we should just wait out for the six minutes, right? He was like, wait, wait, six more minutes. And I was like, well, you know,

Starting point is 00:09:44 River is gonna be going out for the night minutes, right? We should just wait six more minutes. And I was like, well, River is gonna be going out for the night. So we should go home. Well, the truth is, Matt, Natalie was hoping Matt LaFleur would come up. So Natalie can get a picture with Matt. Oh, Matt is the- Oh, he's the head coach.

Starting point is 00:09:56 He's the hottie of the NFL. Oh. He's the hottie of the NFL. Matt LaFleur is a big fan. Okay. Now, why did you spell it like that? I don't know, LaFroy? No, LaFroy is the whole Justin spelled it.

Starting point is 00:10:08 What is it? L-E-F-E-A-U? L-A-F-L-E-U-R. This man. Oh, he's hot. He's cute. He's very handsome. We talked about this.

Starting point is 00:10:20 We talked about him with Peter Schrager and his beautiful wife, Brie, I believe is her name. We love them, we're fans of them. I was hoping to just maybe like lock eyes for just one quickly moment, but. I was going to take a picture. I was willing to take a picture, but he didn't come out. I was definitely in my wag era. And I feel like wag is in just like wife of a big Packer fan.

Starting point is 00:10:38 Yeah. And I was like taking a lot of pictures really fast. Lee, while Nick was chatting with these players and you know I'm like you should sign the ball and I'm like you should we should hear let me I want to be the one to take a photo of y'all like Nick's way too poor to take a picture with you but I want the photo yeah nice wing woman truly wagged me I was like such a fan keep it cool keep it cool yeah yeah that was our weekend. Speaking of wag, I think I was peaking on

Starting point is 00:11:07 Maddie's Instagram, Luke's fiance. And I think she has a podcast that she's launching or something. So check it out guys. Pop off. Bravo is launching a new show of the Kansas City Chiefs. Some of the wives of the Kansas City Chiefs players are putting a reality TV show together

Starting point is 00:11:25 about what it's like to be married or dating or in a relationship with said Kansas City Chiefs players except Taylor Swift and Brittany and Holmes. They care. Be fucking for real, did we really think they were gonna be on Bravo reality TV? Like come on. Maybe.

Starting point is 00:11:39 We're so close to be operating in the same universe. They must be not thrilled, Brittany and Taylor, specifically Taylor. Well, they're probably just like, well, I doubt they're gonna be involved. No, but like- Why would they, like, this is like, hard knocks where they follow just like certain people's-

Starting point is 00:11:53 But it's not a coincidence that they chose the Kansas City Chiefs- Not at all. Of all teams and the wives of those players to do this show. And while I don't doubt that Taylor Swift and Brittany Homes will not be part of it, I can't help but wonder if the producers will try

Starting point is 00:12:09 to get them to talk about them and discuss them and bring them up and be part of the conversations, which. They're going to, they have to. And also they're developing it, so it's uncertain whether it's gonna happen or not technically, right? Well, it's kind of a challenge too, because, you know, especially the NFL,

Starting point is 00:12:25 of all the major sports leads, the average career of an NFL player is like three years or less. You know, for all the quarterbacks, like Patrick Mahomes or Tom Brady, who played 20 years, that's not common, it's very rare, and even, you know, quarterback isn't the same as the rest of the players, you know?

Starting point is 00:12:43 So like, how do you do a TV show with an ensemble cast knowing that like the husband might be cut at any moment or traded? And so yeah, I'm curious. Do they have any of the names of the players whose wives might participate in said show? They do. And I might pronounce them wrong. So apologies for that. But McCole Hardman Jr.'s fiance, Shariah Gordon.

Starting point is 00:13:03 So Hardman Jr., I believe he already was once cut, then traded to the Jets, came back, and won the game-winning touchdown of the Super Bowl last year. Anyways, but that's kind of my point. He's a backup. So like he could definitely not be on the team by the end of the year or next year.

Starting point is 00:13:20 Yeah. Well, then the other person that's referenced is Shayna Weathersby who shares two kids with defensive tackle Chris Jones. Chris Jones, he's a superstar. He ain't going nowhere. So Chris Jones' partner is going to be on it. Now I'm interested.

Starting point is 00:13:41 He's got clout. Chris Jones, he's a big fucking deal. He's one of the better players in the whole league It is interesting though that Bravo is a mainly like female audience and it's like football is mainly male audience, right? Yeah, and like the only show that's male audience on Bravo is like below deck Yeah, it's like this is their way of trying to like interject another sure, but I think I think the ladies have always been interested in in the Sure, but I think the ladies have always been interested in the...

Starting point is 00:14:04 The chiefs. The whateness, or the... Are true, yeah, the wives of the... You know, being the partner of celebrities, you know? Yeah. I think there's a lot of relationships where like, a lot of the players like, will marry their college sweethearts,

Starting point is 00:14:16 other players will meet their partner, you know, later in life. And then there's like, it seems like it'd be a group of people who only date professional athletes. Like football players that date other athletes. No, I mean, like I think there's like, there seems to be like, yeah, some, there's-

Starting point is 00:14:29 Like women that only like professional athletes. Yeah, there are like some women who are just like- Got it. They went from dating one billionaire to another billionaire. Like sometimes people have a type, you know? Sometimes that type is brown hair and sometimes that type is like catches-

Starting point is 00:14:39 Football. Football, sometimes it's real love. Sometimes it's not. Could be interesting. Could be interesting. You know, it is interesting, Secret Lives of Mormon Wives and they got picked up for season two. 20 episodes.

Starting point is 00:14:49 20 episodes from eight. So good. Yeah. When everybody's back, as of now. Yeah, the running joke is Mom Talk did in fact survive. So. Well, they survived season two to be determined. I, these women are committed to the bit. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 00:15:06 And I don't see that going anywhere. And we love Salt Lake. This the city, everything it represents. Are Utah in general? Yeah, it's right. It's fascinating. It's it's it's kind of this full of it's unique. It's has seems to have a lot of money full of privilege and with a lot of rules.

Starting point is 00:15:22 I was telling my friend that the Utah shows for anybody that has like a religious background will tickle your trauma. So it's like, they have enough of that commentary to like tap into your experience, but also like blow it out of proportion. That's good. So tickle your trauma. Tickle your trauma.

Starting point is 00:15:36 What a delightful way of putting it. Do we wanna vibes football real fast before we- Oh, speaking of football, congratulations to me. I went two and oh. But you're also still losing, so. I need to come back. You haven't come back yet because you're still losing. What is the season record? We're five and five, you're four and six.

Starting point is 00:15:55 So we've. I'm one game behind. Exactly. Yeah. Well, it's a long season. Not a comeback yet. I'm just saying. Did you guys go in two or two and oh?

Starting point is 00:16:03 No, we went 1-1. You went 1-1. So I caught up on a game, so the Packers won. Yay. You know why I knew the Vikings, cause you guys should have picked up on this, cause you guys are all about the vibes. But the Minnesota Vikings intercepted a pass

Starting point is 00:16:16 and you know how they celebrated that pass? By doing the handshake from the parent trap. That's so cute. But we didn't know they were gonna do that. I feel like you should have. Crickets, crickets, crickets. I know. How though?

Starting point is 00:16:28 What was their previous touchdown celebration? I don't know, Mary didn't clearly do her homework. Maybe we should look into that, how do they celebrate touchdowns? That's a good- Handshakes? Yeah, previous touchdown celebrations. What's the dance?

Starting point is 00:16:43 Are they too cocky? We can have Mary- Yeah, how creative can they What's the dance? Are they too cocky? We can have a merry. Yeah, how creative can they be? Doing the parent trap celebrations, pretty iconic. That's pretty iconic. That's a lot to memorize and they worked on it hard. Yeah. And they did pretty good.

Starting point is 00:16:54 They nailed it. I could hear the music in my head. It's him. Do do do do do. Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do No, that's cute. I think the Jets lost because Natalie said nobody looks good in purple and I had purple hair. And we voted for the Jets and it was like. I did, I'm so sorry. I said that and then after we wrapped, Justin was like, no, and you shot me down.

Starting point is 00:17:11 I'm like, no. I am actually so sorry. But it's not purple, it's like, it's not. Every day is a new color. Yeah. Now it's like a pink. The more you wash it, the lighter it gets. The more you human kaleidoscope.

Starting point is 00:17:23 It's like a colorful plum. My hairstylist, colorist, Alex, at 901 Salon, I was telling him about what you've been going through and he was like, the whole red to dye, he was like, that is textbook. So she was right, but wrong. She was right, but it was like she hasn't had a lot of experience. She just read the textbook and it was like, pick wrong. She was right, but it was like she hasn't had a lot of like- Experience doing it. Experience, she just like read the textbook and it was like, pick it up, best, whatever you do that. And he was like, that's just, you know, he's like,

Starting point is 00:17:50 but tell him to come in, I'll fix it. Well, what's his name? His name is Alex. Hi Alex. Alex, he's really great at what he does. A lot of people did reach out and I love the support, but I'm also like, I have trust issues now. So everybody's like, you gotta do this to fix it.

Starting point is 00:18:03 I'm like, I honestly can't. No, no, no, yeah, no, I know. I just let it ride. so everybody's like you got to do this to fix it I'm like I honestly can't no no no yeah, I know I know I just let it ride Yeah, can you ask for advice is like this or even if you don't ask for advice and people just give you their takes It's like whoa all right. Yeah, that's enough there I got helpful advice, but also Sally's was helpful and here I am so yeah, yeah Anyways, was it though? I mean she, textbook advice. She pointed me in the right direction. It was textbook. The wrong color.

Starting point is 00:18:27 Firecracker red instead of auburn. Yeah, a little different. All right, well we got a great show lined up for you today. We got Joey and Kelsey returning to the Vile Files fresh off of Joey's dance from last night. He did a backflip, it was awesome, we were there. We were there. And now we've been all over the place.

Starting point is 00:18:44 That was my first time at Dancing with the Stars. Nick and I have been together for four years and he's literally never taken me and that was so fun. I'm an asshole. No, no, no, it was so fun. It seriously was so fun. And we got to meet some of the Golden Bachelors. Jack, who we interviewed was there.

Starting point is 00:18:57 We met him in real life. Along with Keith. We met. Jonathan. Jonathan and. No Joan. No Joan and Gary. Yeah, Tina Turner's got that with them It was so they're so fun. They're such a delight. Yeah. Yeah was Jonathan there for done

Starting point is 00:19:13 Jonathan also was there for Jen other Jonathan bachelorette Jonathan was there. Yes sitting next to Susie Evans sitting next to Susie starting rumors Yeah, they are just so as So was Justin Glaze, Marshall Glaze, cousin. And also Tom Schwartz and his lovely girlfriend. Tom Schwartz, his lovely girlfriend. Yes, it was honestly jam packed in there. Multiverse. Truly, it was very fun.

Starting point is 00:19:40 Who were Tom Schwartz, who's he there to see? That's a great question. We didn't really answer. We were just like, oh my gosh, so great to see you. He Schwartz, who's he there to see? That's a great question. We didn't really answer. Yeah, we were just like, oh my gosh, so great to see you. He's like, he's his big fans. Yeah, he's there for every taping now, I think. Really?

Starting point is 00:19:53 Him and Jonathan, regular. Oh yeah, I guess. A secret giant Dancing with the Stars fan. How long was it taping? It's two hours, it's live. It's live? Oh, it is live, okay. Well, I mean, this particular episode was taped alive

Starting point is 00:20:05 because you had the VP debate last week, and so it aired last night. They have another episode tonight, so if you wanna continue to support Joey and Jen, tune in tonight and vote for them. Plus, we also got Monica from Love is Blind this episode as well. Now, this Thursday on Reale Recap, get ready.

Starting point is 00:20:24 Your America sweetheart Charles golden bachelor himself joins us. I think he's on vacation right now and he's taking time out of his vacation to speak with us. So we are honored to speak with Charles. That is this Thursday. Lots to get into what's going on in Bravo OC world. Also, by the way, we saw Andy Cohen this weekend.

Starting point is 00:20:41 Also what up jam packed weekend. Yeah. John Mayer. How was it? Well, I kind of awkwardly, I saw Andy Cohen this weekend. What up Jam Pack weekend? We didn't see Andy Cohen, John Mayer. How was he? Well, I kind of awkwardly, I saw Andy, I was like, Andy! And we've talked a few times. Is that how you got his attention?

Starting point is 00:20:53 Kind of, yeah. And then I was like, you look good! And then I was like, I didn't know what to say, he was walking fast. I was like, I just told him he looked good. Which he did, he did look good. But I was really self-conscious about like, why did I just tell him he looked good?

Starting point is 00:21:04 It was a weekend of fanboying. I was like a fangirl weekend. like, why did I just tell him he looked good? Everybody wants to hear they look good. It was a weekend of fanboying. It was like a fangirl weekend. Yeah, yeah. I'm jealous. I really respect Andy Cohen and his career. And then we went in this, we were at Chain Fest. Very cool, I don't know if you guys have heard of it.

Starting point is 00:21:14 It's this like festival where they like get a lot of old nostalgic chain restaurants together and then like they bring in like chefs to kind of put their own unique spin at some more iconic, you know, chains, like KFC and Portillo's was there. It was very cool. Anyways, Andy Cohen, John Mayer, they showed up. There was like this VIP area.

Starting point is 00:21:32 And then Andy came up and said hi and I introduced him to Natalie and then- It was wonderful. It was wonderful. I guess he was in town to shoot the reunion for OC. Yeah. Which apparently Emily's glam artists like outed her and Gina's look.

Starting point is 00:21:47 I saw that. Is that like not, that's not okay, right? No. No. I mean, technically, Bravo doesn't let you do it usually until they release their photos. But why are they letting makeup artists with phones on set recording? It seems like a rookie mistake

Starting point is 00:22:01 for someone who's definitely not a rookie. It depends on the production company, I think. Cause I know for Salt Lake City, they made everybody sit in separate rooms and you couldn't have your devices. Gotcha, gotcha, yeah. So different production company. Well, they learned.

Starting point is 00:22:14 Anyways. Well, and Tamara and Shannon are sitting next to Andy. So they're the immediate chairs. What does that tell us? Sierra, how would you describe it? Usually the first chairs are always the most prominent storyline of the season. Well, that makes sense.

Starting point is 00:22:27 So remember like, wasn't Lindsay and Carl the first chairs for Summer House? Yeah, so it's like that kind of thing. Tamra, Shannon, yeah, they've been. Monica and Heather were last year. That's all like, yeah. Yep, yep, yep. Okay.

Starting point is 00:22:39 Well, speaking of Halloween decorations, did you see Courtney Kardashian's, her like decoration that she's getting like quote unquote, like criticized for? Were we talking about Halloween decorations, did you see Courtney Kardashian's, her like decoration that she's getting like quote unquote like criticized for? Were we talking about Halloween decorations? No, I'm just saying speaking. Okay. I watched Natalie just go. I'm speaking of Halloween decorations.

Starting point is 00:22:54 So yes, you are speaking of them in this next, yes of course. Okay, Courtney Kardashian has Halloween decorations. Just before we move on to the reality TV world. Well of course, yes. Did you see her decorations of two skeletons? So she posted a feed of fall dump, whatever it is, and essentially you have two skeletons blow up. One is straddling the other one on the lap, like kissing.

Starting point is 00:23:16 Yes, like about to kiss the other skeleton. Oh. It's very Travis and Courtney. It is very Courtney and Travis. It's on theme for them. It's very on theme. But people are saying. I definitely wanted to say people need to like relax,

Starting point is 00:23:28 but this is definitely. It's slightly sexual. People are so fucking sensitive. They literally, all of her kids watch her straddle Travis every single day. Like how is this any different? I don't know if this is about her kids. Yeah, kind of thing.

Starting point is 00:23:40 I think maybe other parents are kind of like. It's in their yard. You know how gated and private their yard is? You think neighborhood kids are walking by and seeing that? On Halloween. Absolutely not. I guess you have a point there, I don't know. Well maybe in Halloween.

Starting point is 00:23:52 That is so close to the house. Whose complaint do they have? They live in a gated community. I'm still, people still trick or treating. People in the comments are complaining and being like, no, you put this, how dare they? Not people in the neighborhood. Well, we don't know.

Starting point is 00:24:03 Well, I haven't talked to anyone in her neighborhood, but it looks like there's one. I don't wanna be like Mr. Boring, but I guess if we were like trick or treating in a neighborhood and Rivers like six years old, I don't know if that's- I'm telling you right now that Kardashians do not have children coming up to their door.

Starting point is 00:24:17 You don't think so? Absolutely not. They don't live in a gated neighborhood? No. Well, they do. Why are you looking at me like I'm just like shit on how long? I just feel like, I don't. I just am saying like, I really don't think that this is like set up for the neighborhood kids. Yeah, valid point.

Starting point is 00:24:34 Their house is so security. What's the drama? I think people on Instagram are pissed because she posted in a fall dump and people on Instagram are like, how fucking dare you? Yeah, I think some people think that it is like a trick or treating like path, which it could be, maybe. Are they mad for the trick or treaters or are they mad for her children? I think they're mad for both.

Starting point is 00:24:52 They're mad for kids walking by and seeing it and then they're like, how do you, if your kids are watching, like looking at that where you do make a very valid point that I'm sure they're seeing it in real life with flesh. Okay, mine, listen, I guess if the Kardashians are getting shit online, I guess they knew they were gonna get shit online.

Starting point is 00:25:07 I mean, you're probably, I'm certain you're right, but I don't think most people who look at that picture think no one's seeing this. They're- No, they're sensitive as fuck, and they're like. No, yeah, listen, I wouldn't be going in her comments being like, that's inappropriate, but objectively speaking, if there was someone in our comments being like, that's inappropriate. But objectively speaking, if there was someone

Starting point is 00:25:26 in our neighborhood with that, maybe not for the kiddos. No? Because what if River was older and she's like, mommy, daddy, what is that? What do you say? This is the conversation we're gonna start. I mean, come on, there are so many things in this world

Starting point is 00:25:41 that people are like, not putting children, setting children up for success to have conversations as early in life. Like this, come on, two inflatable skeletons. Like there are much bigger things people are doing, press, put it, pushing onto children nowadays. Anyways. I mean, I guess. Well, sure.

Starting point is 00:25:57 You said, sorry, period. No, no, no, go fuck ourselves. Uh, moving on. Speaking of Halloween, no, I don't know. No, literally, literally speaking of. Wait, no, but there's another one. So I saw this video that's going viral recently. And basically there's this Instagrammer, Annie, who posted a video, Halloween. What's Annie's last name?

Starting point is 00:26:15 Let's give it a name. It's just at Annie on Instagram. Okay. Kind of iconic. Annie Schaefer. Oh, just kidding. That is iconic though. So basically she posted this video saying Halloween costumes for your ugly boyfriend. That is iconic though. So basically she posted this video saying, Halloween costumes for your ugly boyfriend.

Starting point is 00:26:28 That's so mean. So we can interpret this as like either your boyfriend's not as attractive or you don't like your boyfriend and you're making him dress however you want. That's awful. That's absolutely awful. Okay. So here's the examples. We can run through them.

Starting point is 00:26:41 No, break up. Like we're humiliating him on Halloween. I were dating like a Chris Hemsworth and somebody looked at me and goes, okay, so I have a list of costumes that would be acceptable for her. It's going to be a trash bag over your head. How do you feel? She was playful about it. So she wasn't like digging.

Starting point is 00:26:54 Like she was kind of alluding that it might be an ex or something. Okay, okay. So basically there's Adam's family, Uncle Fester, and then the girl with the pink dress. So like your boyfriend's the bald man in the black. Yeah. And then we have Hugh Hefner the bald man in the black. Yeah. And then we have Hugh Hefner, old man and a playboy bunny. So she was like, specifically if your boyfriend's older,

Starting point is 00:27:10 make him Hugh Hefner. Then we have- If Nick had more gray hair, I would say let's go for it. But you know, Nick is giving young. He's not giving Hugh. He's not giving Hugh. You're giving Hugh's son. He's giving like-

Starting point is 00:27:21 Jesus. Yeah. I don't know if he's related to Hugh. Okay, maybe not. But he is just giving like young and hot, not like old and creepy. Okay. Good vibes, okay. Yeah, good vibes, okay.

Starting point is 00:27:30 Princess Leia and Jabba the Hutt. That's awful. Oh my God. That's absolutely awful. Miss Bellum and the Mayor from Powerpuff Girls. Okay. Jessica Rabbit and Roger Rabbit. Well, we did that.

Starting point is 00:27:39 I feel like that one's cute. We did that one. That one's cute. And honestly, we made it cute. I would say Roger Rabbit. No, but we made it cute. We didn't make it, I wasn't like... No, is that why you suggested honestly, we made it cute. I went as Roger Rabbit. No, but we made it cute. We didn't make it, I wasn't like, no.

Starting point is 00:27:47 Is that why you suggested it, Natalie? Yeah. No, no. I'm hot. The only reason, no. The only reason we even suggested it is because I had red hair and we were like, red hair, red hair, red hair, Jessica Rabbit.

Starting point is 00:27:58 Okay. Who goes with Jessica Rabbit? This one's hot for the record, I think so. She got, no, you know what I'm saying? We made it hot though. She was like, I'm going as Jessica Rabbit. No, well, obviously. I feel like- What are you doing?

Starting point is 00:28:08 No, no, no. No, no, we can talk about this if we wanna talk about it. Who the fuck makes up the Halloween costumes every fucking year? You. Thank you. And it's like last minute, Nick's like, well, what are we gonna be? And I'm like, well, what do you wanna be?

Starting point is 00:28:21 And he's like, I don't fucking know. And I'm like, fuck, I gotta figure this out. This year, I already know what we're going to be, but I haven't told Nick yet because I haven't gotten anything for it. Do you want to know? I do. You guys should go to Heidi Klum's party.

Starting point is 00:28:33 Well, if she would invite us. Nick can make that happen. Also, I don't know if I'm creative enough to come up with some sort of costume for that. Just put Nick in the Jessica Rabbit and then you could be the other one. I could be Roger the Rabbit. Yeah, be like prosthetics. Anyways, other examples. This one's funny to Nick in the Jessica Rabbit and then you could be the other one. I could be Roger the Rabbit. Yeah, but like prosthetics.

Starting point is 00:28:46 Anyways, other examples. This one's funny to me, Poison Ivy and a Tree. Oh, same Halloween. She went as Poison Ivy. But I went as Poison Ivy because I had the red hair, but Nick wasn't a tree. She went the same Halloween. No, Nick wasn't a tree.

Starting point is 00:28:58 You were, who was that, superhero? No, it was, I don't give a fuck who you are. And so I went as a skeleton. No you didn't. To the same one? No you weren't a skeleton you were it had to do with Poison Ivy. Superman Batman. No it was Poison Ivy's the Riddler. The Riddler thank you you went as the Riddler. You did. Oh maybe. You did thank you you did he was the Riddler he wasn't a tree. But I also but I also put like a skull face and then put like a question mark.

Starting point is 00:29:26 That was when, no, that was when I was, that was when I was Tomb Raider, Lord Croft. Tomb Raider's hot. And we were literally, it was so last minute and we were like, what the fuck are we gonna do? I put a question mark on a tank top. That was for the Riddler. Because I went to find the outfit

Starting point is 00:29:42 and they only had like three XL and I was like, like Nick, this isn't just, it's not gonna work. Let's just DIY it. I've learned that I'm ugly. No. No. You weren't the friggler.

Starting point is 00:29:52 You weren't a tree. It's fine, I'm in my dead era. I don't really care what I look like, it's fine. But she said for Roger Rabbit, make sure you cover that man up. And you weren't covered up. I was in a full rabbit costume. Yeah, you were. Do we have the photo? But you weren't covered up, your whole in a full rabbit costume. Yeah, you was. Do we have the photo?

Starting point is 00:30:06 But you weren't covered up, your whole face was out. That's giving hot rabbit. That is hot. It's hot. Sorry. Well, the last example she gave was, Romy and Michelle dress the boyfriend as the Post-its.

Starting point is 00:30:17 Okay. Well, honestly, I feel like she set some couples up for failure. Oh, we're playing this TikTok. Honestly. I look like a guy who's like, fuck my life. No, you look like you know you're hot. Thank you, you looked hot.

Starting point is 00:30:33 It's like a last minute, I don't care about the costume, but my face gives. Yeah, I know. Like face card, sorry, face card never declines. Here, anyways. Okay. Reality TV. Reality TV, speaking of. Love is OK. Reality TV. Reality TV. So love is blind.

Starting point is 00:30:46 Speaking of we all criticize or criticize, but we like speculated on did Hannah write the notes about Nick like on purpose. Did she leave it out on purpose? She clarified and said, I see I say things. It just comes out.

Starting point is 00:31:01 And so for me, if I write it down, it helps me. It's just so writing a list is maybe things you need to work on or red flags maybe I'm seeing I don't think I regret it because I think it helped us and I think he knew the things that I needed from him so she was she's clarifying that those letters were like a journal essentially. She's organized she's writing down her thoughts before she she's thinking before she speaks. Yeah so it's implied that it was accidental it wasn't on purpose. Yeah, she at least communicated.

Starting point is 00:31:25 Yeah. She did. Could have been more of a passive aggressive approach. True, but also I'm sure if any of us read our partner's journal, we would be triggered by something, right? Oh, well, absolutely. So. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:31:38 Well, we'll get into it more later in this episode when we get into Love is Blind with Monica. Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Nobody does selling better than Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet and the not so secret secret with ShopPay that boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going to ching. No, their app literally goes cha-ching. Every time you make a sale, it goes cha-ching. It's really fun.

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Starting point is 00:34:13 Should we jump to the Vanderpump? What's going on in Vanderpump? Have you seen the Jackson-Britney stuff? Oh, I mean the Valley. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the Valley. But like, to me, it's always an extension of Vanderpump. They're Vanderpump family. Yeah. They're officially divorced. We don't know yet. Well, the Valley. But like, to me, it's always an extension of Vanderpump. They're Vanderpump family.

Starting point is 00:34:25 Yeah. They're officially divorced? We don't know yet. Well, not officially, but the paperwork was filed for like the custody, essentially giving Brittany the full custody, but Jax filled his own paperwork out. Quick question. Was this put anywhere else besides Reddit?

Starting point is 00:34:38 Yes. So Jax filled out the paperwork himself, represented himself, and for one of the questions, it was, are you legally married? He checked no. But they're not divorced yet. So basically, Jackson's lawyer came out and he said, in the legal paperwork, he incorrectly declared that he and Brittany were not legally married.

Starting point is 00:34:56 Jackson and Brittany have already long resolved all matters related to custody of Cruz and will continue to work together privately for the best interest of their son, which remains their overriding concern. While Jax made errors in filing out forms that are usually done by trained legal professionals, those errors will be amended without delay. On the forms, he incorrectly declared that he and Brittany were not legally married. And then in comments, Brittany commented, We are legally married. I'm guessing paperwork is hard for some people.

Starting point is 00:35:21 Paperwork is hard for some people. This is giving sad and yucky, but it's also like giving like prepping us for a storyline of the upcoming season. Yeah. I mean, they did successfully do that for season one. And they are done filming. So this is happening after the conclusion of that.

Starting point is 00:35:37 Yeah, but it's everything that's going on with him, not so quit incidentally is playing out in the press. And that doesn't happen unless they want it to happen on some level. They could pick up cameras. Whether they're picking up cameras or not, I'm just saying this is such an odd story to cover even on this show because it came out not too long ago

Starting point is 00:35:57 that Jax was diagnosed with bipolar. We're talking about mental health problems here. He was in a mental health facility and now he's out. But it's Jax Taylor. And what do we know about Jax Taylor? It's just like, where's the TV stop? And the reality began. We don't really know.

Starting point is 00:36:13 He's demonstrated a willingness to use literally anything for self-promotion, for whatever TV show he's on. And I don't know, this story is just sad. And you gotta fall out of a family. You got child custody, all these very real life serious issues, and it seems kind of uncomfy to even discuss and speculate, but we know full hand that they are using this

Starting point is 00:36:34 as press and promo for an upcoming season in Storyline, because again, everything is play by play out in the press. It's like, whether it's on rumors on Reddit or in the press, it's like we're getting a front row seat to this divorce and it just kind of, ugh, I don't know. It's not a coincidence that everything is out there. You know, it's just not, not with this group of people who knows how to self promote and put out a storyline. I hate question the authenticity of something that

Starting point is 00:37:02 is so serious and like, ugh, I don't know. So Jax, well we thought last week Jax was giving Britney so custody of their child, which quite honestly felt like kind of like a very selfless and nice thing for Jax to do, given where he's at in his life. But that doesn't seem to be the case. It just seems like he posted bad paperwork online.

Starting point is 00:37:23 And now instead of representing himself, he's doing the right thing and getting lawyers. But again, the whole idea of representing himself in the first place and putting this out there, it's like, what are we doing here? We'll just wait to see what happens on the Valley next season. Seems like it's gonna be a very interesting season.

Starting point is 00:37:38 When does the season come out, do we know? That we do not know yet. June 4th was the finale. So like, yeah, so it's gonna be spring into the summer if we follow the same timeline as the last one. Okay. We still, what else we got? OC, Shannon responded to the Joel Kim booster.

Starting point is 00:37:53 Oh, what did she say? So for OC, Shannon responded to the Joel Kim booster. We recapped kind of that situation last week. During the Vicky and Shannon live show, basically Shannon was talking about it, saying, I really don't know what it's about because an hour earlier that night before the wrap party, he had tears in his eyes and he said, I'm so happy for you.

Starting point is 00:38:12 He trashed my daughters. He said that he hopes that I suffer. He said that he feels sorry for John Jansen. He says that I'm nothing but a pathetic drunk. It's really going to look silly for him because he had nothing but love for me the entire show. Yeah, that's a clap back. That's a clap back. I'm going to say, who do we believe?. Yeah, that's pretty wild. That's a clap back.

Starting point is 00:38:25 I'm gonna say, who do we believe, but like, that's a definitive statement for Shannon to say. Yeah, why would Shannon like make up that he had tears in his eyes and said, I'm so happy for you? Like, and his client, like that was some crazy, aggressive ass shit to say about someone. 1000%.

Starting point is 00:38:42 Like, I hope you suffer is honestly like a scary ass statement. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's aggressive. And again, like I've had, I've been on set with people who I thought were terrible people. I don't want them to suffer. I don't want anyone to suffer.

Starting point is 00:38:55 That's crazy. I was just like, you're just kind of a jerk. Maybe you should stop being a jerk, but like I didn't want them to suffer. Has Joel Kimbooster said anything else since this? No. No. I mean, I would assume he was silent. You Kim Booster said anything else since this? No. I mean, I would assume he was silenced. You know who now follows or did follow Joel? You.

Starting point is 00:39:09 Alexis. Oh. Messy. Can we confirm, can we confirm, can we confirm? Messy, messy, messy. She's following him. She went and followed him. She went and followed him, petty, petty, petty, petty, petty.

Starting point is 00:39:20 And so Alexis, because on this episode, so confused as to why Shannon wasn't receiving her, what was she called? Olive branch. I don't get Alexis, but at least Alexis, it's more like, all right, fine, you're under the spell of John, you're committed to the bid,

Starting point is 00:39:38 you're supporting your partner. I am more blown away once again by the rest of this fucking cast Sans Shannon them telling her to soften that it's fucking crazy. Why it's the most appropriate response Because we all fucking know that if Shannon did not send this text saying you are not invited Alexis would have somehow weaseled her fucking way to London We all know it and it's just like, I don't understand. Like, it was harsh? How was it harsh?

Starting point is 00:40:09 It was direct. The woman literally looked at Shannon across the table and like threatened her well-being over John Jansen face to face. And I'm like, so we're acting like these conversations and these moments didn't happen, but yet Shannon should be concerned about Alexis's feelings.

Starting point is 00:40:23 Your boyfriend is suing me and you're doing nothing to stop it. Yeah. I think Emily had it right. And I mean, she said this in her ITM. So like, who knows if she actually said this to Alexis, but her being like, her continuously wanting to like mend things with Shannon

Starting point is 00:40:37 while simultaneously suing her and like wishing her life to rot in hell is like the weirdest juxtaposition. It's like, what are we? Pick one. I'm gonna threaten to release videos. Yeah, or accept my flowers and take me on a trip overseas.

Starting point is 00:40:52 I got you flowers. Fuck. In what world? But again, it's just more like, I expect Alexis to be a little delulu and we've all been in relationships where we were just blinded by love and loyalty only to get out of it and been like,

Starting point is 00:41:08 oh my God, you know? And I'm not saying Alexis deserves compassion because she'll see the light in the future, I don't know, but we've all been there. But it's the rest of the cast, I'm just kind of blown away that once again, I keep asking myself, what the fuck are we missing? Like, because John came on, right?

Starting point is 00:41:25 John made an appearance, Mr. I Hate the Spotlight. A jump scare. Yeah, Mr. I Don't Want Attention. Really a jump scare. Yeah. And he was just like, I got hard evidence. I got emails proving that she owed me money. Who the fuck cares?

Starting point is 00:41:37 Yeah, even if that's true, the way, the manner in which they're going about it, because this is more than just the money, this is clearly what seems to be an attempt at a public execution, kind of. They're trying to ruin her credibility. And that's spiteful in me. I will say, not that I'm defending them,

Starting point is 00:41:51 but something that Alexis had said in this episode, or I think Katie like, re-said what Alexis said, where she was like, they're doing this as a response for when the show comes out. Like that made a little more sense to me. No, John said I... Statute limitations. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:42:08 He was like, my hands were tied because of the statute's limitations. What do you mean your hands were tied? I mean, you... Listen, you don't have to sue. Yeah, who's suing you to sue her? No, but that's what I'm saying, that it made... Like, I'm not defending it, but it made some sense that they were kind of like...

Starting point is 00:42:21 Like, the People magazine article. Like, that stuff all happened because they knew that the show would come out showing how horrible they were so that they were trying to create a net of collateral damage to protect it, which is weird, still, it's backwards. Unfortunately, sometimes you have to sue because you have no other options. And again, who owes what?

Starting point is 00:42:40 In a dating situation, even if, I think, card evidence, I think hard evidence, I find to be questionable, maybe there's some sort of language where it suggests that maybe she was gonna pay back, I don't know, but in a dating situation, it seems less clear to me, especially for a guy who loves to be with housewives. I mean, like, John's kinda giving wag. You know, like, some people, like I said earlier in the

Starting point is 00:43:04 episodes, like, they always seem to be dating the ballplayers. Some, you know, John's like always dating the housewives. It's like he's arm candy. At least he fancies himself as. I just cannot take Alexis Bellino trying to play the victim. It's just, it's laughable. It is interesting, yeah. When she kicked Katie and Jen out, I was like-

Starting point is 00:43:23 It was like sobbing to John. I'm done, enough. What are you so hurt by? Well, like this is she kicked Katie and Jen out, I was like... It was like sobbing to John. -"I'm done, enough." -"What are you so hurt by?" Well, like, this is kind of where I'm like, you're unintentionally aiding in what Shannon says about your influence with John, because you saw from that entire reaction that she's gonna go up there, talk about how hard Shannon's making life for her,

Starting point is 00:43:39 how all she's trying to do is be kind and getting shot down left and right, which is just gonna aid if John loves her the way that he claims he's going to be like, I need to protect you or go harder on Shannon, where it's like, just leave the woman alone. She wants nothing to do with you. Also, what bothered me was the flower arrangement being sent at her birthday party, where that's such a petty housewife move, sending the arrangement

Starting point is 00:44:02 when you're not invited to something so your presence is known. That's just creating a scene. For sure. But what I'm saying is that Alexis is acting as if she's doing everything so genuinely to get Shannon to like her. And it's like you've done nothing. For sure. One on one.

Starting point is 00:44:17 Sent her a text message, have a conversation. You're like, here's the big announcement so everybody will feel bad for me because look at how much I'm putting myself out there. So she can be in an episode. Yeah. At the fashion show, fashion show her being like well I want to have a one-on-one talk with her like someone go get her and tell her that we should have a talk literally and it's like at this event like while you're filming no I don't either no new girlfriend to your ex-boyfriend who's facilitating in a lawsuit who also got the same dog that you got and is mimicking your every move in life. I don't want to be friends with you.

Starting point is 00:44:47 I don't want to be friends with you. I'm afraid I'll fall asleep and I'll wake up and you've already sewn my skin onto your skin. But I just, I don't understand why the rest of the cast is acting inconvenienced by this harassment towards Shannon. I mean, it seems clear that like, none of these women really are friends with Shannon or respect her, it seems like. And I think they feel like, you know,

Starting point is 00:45:08 maybe Shannon's been messy, she's got her issues, you know, she seems to be owning up to that. And I can't help but wonder if they kind of just like, want her to be put in her place for some reason. I can't, that's the only thing that makes sense. Because like, they all act like this isn't that big of a deal. And I don't know that's the only thing that makes sense because they all act like this isn't that big of a deal and I don't know what we're missing.

Starting point is 00:45:29 I like how Gina phrased it in our last RR when she was like, you had asked her what's your relationship with Shannon and she basically said, well she's done a lot to me and I really didn't feel that close to her but then you were like, who's the closest to Shannon? And you were like, me and Emily. So she's like, I felt weird to even say anything,

Starting point is 00:45:47 but also like, at the end of the day, someone had to do it. So like, in Gina's situation, she's like, I kinda spoke up, but not really. Yeah, but I just feel like the rest of the, maybe Shannon has her flaws, and she's done her shit to everyone here. But I feel like this is not the fight to pick with her. At the end of the day, I feel like people can fuck me over

Starting point is 00:46:05 left and right and be terrible people, but when something is fucking wrong, I will always, always stand up and be like, this is wrong, what are we doing? I might not like this person, they might have fucked me over in so many ways, but we're not about to do this. And it's just so weird to me

Starting point is 00:46:22 that it's all of these grown fucking women who have all been through so much in their lives, they've all made fucking mistakes. They're like, ooh, sorry, not my business. I'm just friends with both of you. I just don't really wanna get involved. Weird, it's weird. It's weird. Just don't pretend to be Shannon's friend then.

Starting point is 00:46:42 Because you're not. These people are not, if I'm Shannon, I'm like, they're not your friends. Like I, now that I have these conversations, especially in LA, like there's acquaintances and there's friends. And sometimes you have to remind each other, these people are not our friends.

Starting point is 00:46:53 You know, like you see how people move or whatever. It's just like, just, you know, you, at the end of the day, like what can you ask of people? Like these people are not Shannon's friends. They are her coworkers at fucking best and some of them are her enemies. Tamara, like she just keeps defending Alexis. Like clearly she has something against Shannon.

Starting point is 00:47:12 Well, and she's the one that dubbed Alexis Jesus Juggs. Right? But I'm just like, it's funny. She had an issue with Alexis the entire time Alexis was on the show back in the day. Now that she has a problem with Shannon, she favors Alexis and it's just like, again, nothing genuine for me. So I, in the teaser, now that she has a problem with Shannon, she favors Alexis. And it's just like, again, nothing genuine for me.

Starting point is 00:47:26 So I, in the teaser for the next episode, we get a tease at something about Jeff Lewis again, I feel like Jeff Lewis is like left and right, getting like thrown into some drama, we're Housewives of New York first, and now we're, we're over here in OC and now I see he responds to the Joel Kim booster claims, like what is, what's... Yeah, so he responded cause we know Jeff Lewis is like friends with like housewives to different degrees, but basically he said, I spoke to her. This is in reference to Shannon. I spoke to her either the night or two nights before she was leaving for Mexico and I didn't think she was in a great place and I was concerned. So this is like talking about for filming,

Starting point is 00:48:02 for Love Hotel. I think it's possible possible that and I can only speak for myself Sometimes if I'm dealing with a lot of stress or I'm a maybe emotionally not totally 100% stable. You may act out Yeah, yeah, I think that's valid I mean, I think we talked about that when we read Joel combusters first statement and we were like listen like we know she's not Doing well and like I think we offer her grace when someone's like. Yeah, I don't doubt Shannon had a day or two where she might've been difficult or inappropriate or maybe just a little rude.

Starting point is 00:48:32 And maybe she deserves an apology. And maybe if I were on set with her, I would have a different opinion, Shannon, than I do now, kind of in like, oh, she's a little off-putting. But wanting them to suffer and wishing ill on her family is like hardcore. Super hardcore.

Starting point is 00:48:48 Yeah, it just, it doesn't. Maybe we're just off. Maybe we're missing something because these, these reactions that these people are having towards Shannon Baddour are, are just don't add up from, from Joel Kim Booster to John Jansen, they are treating that as if she's like secretly after midnight, she turns into some sort of evil spirit and casts spells on these people.

Starting point is 00:49:10 But I'm saying, that's the energy that these people are giving towards Shannon for being, I don't know what, what is she doing? I think Shannon has the ability to be a lot. We've seen that in past seasons. She's gone through divorces on the show. She's lost seats, whatever. And I'm like, as she's healing and what, she's just not, she can't contain herself.

Starting point is 00:49:30 Like, I feel like when she's feeling emotions. We're talking about housewives. We're talking about LA. We're talking about housewives. Shannon's not the first high maintenance, maybe somewhat self-centered when she's going through it, or she acts out. She's not the first person.

Starting point is 00:49:44 And that's what I'm saying. This has gone from maybe Shannon deserves a little criticism to people trying to ruin her because their opinion of her is so dark and so negative. It doesn't add up. Do we think Joke and Booster is gonna be quote unquote held accountable for this statement? What do you think would happen?

Starting point is 00:50:04 Because he's in the show. Not brought back for season two? Yeah. I don't know, I feel like, I don't know. Did he say in his threats of like, it's gonna come out, like we're gonna see something in the show, or was it like- He said DM me for the videos.

Starting point is 00:50:18 That's crazy. Yeah. Well, that's what I said, I was like- Poor Shannon, everyone's like, I have videos, I have videos, and I'm gonna put them out. What is she doing? It's crazy. I was like poor Shannon. Everyone's like I have videos. I have videos and I'm gonna put them out What is she doing? It's crazy. I'm just I'm honestly are we gonna see this video of some like Transformed alter ego. I think we're gonna watch somebody hot like that's broken having yeah a meltdown and people are being Unfair to her about it. I don't know Jen responded to Tamra's apology No, remember Tamra's apology where she was like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Jen responded to Tamara's apology. No.

Starting point is 00:50:45 Remember Tamara's apology where she was like, I don't know anything. It was very like robotic. I'm pretty camera for this one. Jen responded and said, this is the most fake attempt of a retraction of her words. I feel so bad for Eddie Judge. Let's not forget.

Starting point is 00:50:59 She also said on national TV, Ryan's home was raided by the FBI six months ago and Jen is covering for him. Girl, you should have listened to Eddie when he tried to shut you up five times at night. Our home was never raided. I'm covering up for nobody. Your mouth and alcohol are your biggest problems and you attack Shannon. What a joke. And Ryan then responded on Twitter and said, Tamar, you are played out. Your stick is old. And we, the fans of the show, have evolved and grown up. Your lying, scheming, self-produced, drunkenness,

Starting point is 00:51:25 nakedness, trailer trash behavior is circa 10 years ago. It's not cute anymore. In fact, it's gross and we're over it. Just take a look in the mirror. Or if self-reflection isn't your thing, then just read the comments on the blogs, Bravo TV, your own podcast, or your own personal social media, hashtag itstime.

Starting point is 00:51:40 Yeah, I don't know. It's all messy though, just so messy. And again, I would rather that have come from Jen than Ryan just because it's like stop getting yourself. It's a little dirty once he chimes in. Yeah. And maybe she over spoke about whatever his actions were with his best friend and all the stuff going on

Starting point is 00:51:58 with the Dodgers, but he seems like the slimiest guy on reality TV. Yeah, and I don't ever need to see a man address a woman like that. I'm good. Yeah, have your wife, have your girlfriend, what is Jen to him? Girlfriend.

Starting point is 00:52:14 Have your girlfriend do it for you. I have such sympathy for Jen as a housewife. She's very authentic, she's been through it, but it is so hard to be on her side when she, like she, her track record of men is, is well notable. And he, like, he seems to fit the bill of even if Tamra's not totally right about some of this stuff, like he seems like a shady guy. He just, he operates and moves with shady people, like birds of a feather. Like his best friend is, is facing some very serious charges.

Starting point is 00:52:45 You know, doesn't mean he did it, but like he just seems to move. He did kind of talk about it this episode and he was like, Oh, he was like, oh yeah, what's going on? I was gonna say dumb, it was weird. I respected Emily when she was like, so you were in Vegas every weekend, but you don't host?

Starting point is 00:53:00 He's like, no, well, so when, It's like a bookie business? No, and then wasn't Katie like, isn't bookies illegal? Yeah, in California, yes. He moves like a shady guy, and Tamara, she definitely can be inauthentic, she definitely, but we also,

Starting point is 00:53:19 we need people like her for the fans of the show. We need people to drive stories. We need the hard workers like Tamara. And yeah, is she inauthentic sometimes? I don't think, I don't need Ryan speaking for Bravo Nation if he's the spokesperson for fans. And he's, again, he's suing her maybe on a technicality, but he's not a good dude.

Starting point is 00:53:40 Like, I don't know. And it's hard to have any sense, it's hard to back Jen up when she's backing up people like this. He's allegedly not a good dude. Allegedly. No, I just, one man's opinion. Well, you know, you never know with opinions these days.

Starting point is 00:53:54 I know. I will say that is something that is so crazy to me that I'm like, it's a podcast where we are talking about like our opinions on what's happening in a TV show. We don't say that claim to know these people. Like you shouldn't be getting your front page news from this. Like, oh God, no, please do your own research.

Starting point is 00:54:08 This is all a stick. Exactly. We're just having conversations. Medical advice? Not us. Not us. He wants to talk about Tamara having a shtick. This is our shtick.

Starting point is 00:54:15 Yeah. Yeah. I wish for Jen a healthy relationship someday. Yeah, me too. That's what I wish for. I'm team Heather when it comes to Emily and Heather. I couldn't disagree. You couldn't disagree, oh. Wait, but they're both on the same team now. Yeah, they too. That's what I wish for. I'm team Heather when it comes to Emily and Heather. I couldn't disagree. You couldn't disagree, oh.

Starting point is 00:54:27 Wait, but they're both on the same team now. Yeah, they're good now. Oh, I'm sure they are. But I'm just, in this particular scene where Emily continues to be upset with Heather, I empathize with Emily and her feelings and she has the right to her feelings, but what she is asking Heather to do

Starting point is 00:54:40 is anticipate her sensitivity on this topic. And that is like an expectation reserved for like your husband or your wife or your absolute best friend. Like you don't anticipate Heather DeBrow anticipating your sensitivity on whatever topic. You know what I'm saying? Like that's your best friend. That's a best friend move.

Starting point is 00:55:00 I guess the whole like, how would you think I would feel? It's like, I don't know. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like that's what Emily wants Heather to do, to know all the work she's put in. And like in all of Emily's feelings are valid. You know what I'm saying? I get why this is a sensitive issue for Emily,

Starting point is 00:55:16 but to get mad at Heather because she didn't anticipate how Emily might feel every step of the way as if Emily was supposed to be Heather's number one priority while Heather's putting on this big production where her kids are center of her mind and the fundraiser, yada, yada, yada. It's also just like, it's one of those situations where I feel like you don't know until you know.

Starting point is 00:55:40 And it's like, I don't know, I mean, I haven't listened to every conversation her and Heather have ever had, but it's like, if Emily hasn't opened up about these things to Heather before, then how is Heather going to know that these things are triggering or sensitive to her? Well, and I think Emily cared more about the response to her sharing that than the actual fashion show. Fine. But it's tough when someone's coming at you crying, very emotional, and the topic is body weight and body image.

Starting point is 00:56:10 Obviously, no one wants to get attacked for not handling a situation like that the best they could. So I can understand why Heather got defensive on camera being accused of not being sensitive enough to Emily's like sensitivity. It's just, I don't know. It also is. And like, I appreciate Heather in this way, where she's like, like, why are we doing this in front of everyone? Like, pull me aside. Like, let's do this one on one. And it's like, Emily wanted to do that in front of everybody. And then which obviously pipe double X's to like be her, her crazy self and everyone kind of got involved and then you lose the whole

Starting point is 00:56:45 point of the conversation because everyone's kind of chiming in while when you have a one-on-one it's so much easier to nail down the point and move on, which they did end up doing at the tea party. But it's like, yeah, I can see how... Was it Gina who made that comment about Heather always wants to have time and go back and think of right things to say. And I'm curious, this is a question for the two of you, Justin and Sierra, who are seasoned Bravo fans.

Starting point is 00:57:12 Hop in. Like from like as a human being to human being, I didn't understand Gina's criticism because I don't think there's any, I mean it's quite honestly healthy to feel triggered and want to take a step back, collect your thoughts and not like just argue for the sake of arguing because you feel defensive.

Starting point is 00:57:28 That's actually a healthy way of communicating between friends and loved ones and whatever. And here's Gina criticizing her as her being inauthentic because she's not like in the moment just going at it. And I'm just, it seems like Bravo fans in general praise and they call that like authentic because they're willing to be messy. But I'm hearing that and I'm just, it seems like Bravo fans in general praise and they call that like authentic because they're willing to be messy but I'm hearing that and thinking well, honestly that's kind of like a healthy approach.

Starting point is 00:57:51 We do not want our housewives to be healthy in terms of communication, I don't see that as inauthentic. You're saying Gina was, like we praised Gina or were- Gina criticized Heather. Yes, yeah. And she kind of referenced, and I've seen this online in general of fans of housewives of like, you know. Oh, the not right now.

Starting point is 00:58:09 Yeah, or just like a couple of Heather's hot mic moment because it was a hot, you know, it was like because when she was talking to Terry, her husband saying don't don't do this in public as if her being inauthentic, as if like her wanting to have a healthy relationship with her husband was her being inauthentic as a housewife. Or Heather wanting to take a step back and then coming back maybe a day later to say, hey, can we talk? Is Heather being inauthentic? Where I'm reading it as like maybe that's Heather, just being a mature woman and learning through the years that maybe she responds more effectively and has a better conversation with whoever she's at odds

Starting point is 00:58:41 with when she can collect her thoughts and come back ready to discuss as opposed to just feeling defensive and then wanting to attack. And I'm just wondering as Bravo fans, how do we see it? What do you think, Sierra? I mean, it depends, because I think of Denise Richards

Starting point is 00:58:56 where it's kind of calculated saying Bravo, Bravo, because it's like, I don't want this on camera. I think people do appreciate in the moment if drama is ensuing to actually sit down and people do appreciate in the moment if drama is ensuing to actually sit down and have that conversation in the moment instead of being able to like go home, formulate an argument, which also now somebody may be not as angry or like in it in that moment. Now you're saying something that's going to spark something else because you've calculated how this conversation is going to go. And it just kind of watching reality

Starting point is 00:59:23 TV, like we don't really want to see the scripted conversation that. And it just kind of, we're watching reality TV. Like we don't really wanna see the scripted conversation that comes out in the sense of, and then getting shocked or upset when somebody doesn't go along with the plan. Question for you, do you really think, let's say, take the cameras away, Heather living her life, do you think she operates any differently

Starting point is 00:59:39 if she were to get in a fight with a friend or a sister, or I don't know if she has siblings, do you think she would move differently? Do you think she would have that fight there, or do you think she would once again say, you know what, I'm not ready for this right now, and then a day later pick up the phone, can we have coffee, can we have tea,

Starting point is 00:59:53 can we get together, can we talk? I mean, it kinda depends because even with the hot mic situation at the doctor's office, if Terry was disparaging her in the way that she felt without the cameras there, I think she would've said right then and there, like, what are you doing? Take away the cameras, what if that was a group of friends at a dinner party? But my point is I do think the cameras make the difference because once you say what you're

Starting point is 01:00:12 saying on tape, that is being used. When you're cognizant of that, you're controlling it. You think Heather at a dinner party, you know, we get into a dinner party, they're playing Pictionary, whatever Terry said, you think she would fight with Terry there in front of friends or do you think behind closed doors on their way home driving that night she would say, hey Terry, don't do that next time? Yeah, I don't think she's gonna fight with Terry

Starting point is 01:00:32 at a dinner party but I'm thinking if it's a women's group together and they're actually friends, like if there's a discussion that needs to be had, I don't think that she would be like, all right, let's table this, we're gonna go walk away and you and I will have this conversation, but I don't think that. I do.

Starting point is 01:00:47 I don't know. I think Heather's moving the way Heather moves. And I think Heather, whether it's on camera or in life, I think she, A, wants to not be messy. She wants to be classier. I think she likes to feel and be in control. I think some people call that calculated, but again, that's literally healthy communication.

Starting point is 01:01:06 That's like learning how to regulate your emotions and not like get into it. And again, you can call that like, I just don't call that calculated or inauthentic. And I do think that Heather operates that outside of the camera. So to me, I don't know how fans could call that inauthentic if that's how she, and maybe difference of opinion,

Starting point is 01:01:24 you might be right. I could be wrong But if she does operate that way outside of filming then how is it gonna be inauthentic? The part that got me was her confessional and I don't know if you guys caught this a couple episodes ago But when Emily first confronted Heather, she made a confessional comment of like well newsflash the dress was too tight And for me, I was like, I don't know like for me I was like, I don't know, like for me, I was like, OK, that's having family that are bigger and kind of have experienced that hate like that's extremely like, regardless if it was Alexis or Emily that got that comment, like that's fat. Oh, I didn't hear that. Yeah. Like, she said that in her confession. So

Starting point is 01:01:59 that's what I'm like. So she's saying that. But then obviously the confessional shot later. But I'm like, that's still like you're able to switch and do like kind of a joke about it. That's kind of weird. And then that's post-conversation with Emily. So it's like, you know how she feels about it. And you still took a crack at her. That would just be a tone deaf joke. And maybe it was centered at Alexis,

Starting point is 01:02:15 but still, even if it was, it's like, that's insensitive. Yeah, that's fucked up. Yeah, but that has nothing to do with how she regulates whether, you know what I'm saying? But like on the question of authenticity, it's like, she's acting this way on camera, but then later in a confessional, you're saying that. It's weird.

Starting point is 01:02:31 So obviously we had Gina on last week and we kind of asked her about the whole like Travis's ex and what's kind of going on there. And it felt like she wasn't comfortable saying much, but she did say that like she didn't feel safe. She didn't feel like her kids were safe. And then Travis comes out and accuses his dangerous ex-wife of threatening Gina.

Starting point is 01:02:51 Yeah, so basically there's a lot of different facts to it, but a lot of the stuff we know with this specifically is that there was Instagram comments and posts and tagging. So broadly summarizing these Instagram posts insinuated that Megan the ex was going to kill herself, called out Gina and me by our names, make various disparaging and untrue comments about me and Gina, and state that Gina and I are abusing Megan slash my children.

Starting point is 01:03:14 It is important to note that Megan hashtagged me, Gina, and Gina's employer on these posts. One example Megan wrote was, God showed up right as I was about to give up today. I was done and a complete stranger left this on my doorstep with a note. I don't know why, but in person was definitely an angel who stopped me dead in my tracks as I was about to destroy my life. Today has been the most life-changing day. Continue, continuing. And then he also pointed out that Megan had three pending criminal cases against her at that time,

Starting point is 01:03:41 including domestic violence against Travis, possession of drugs, and violating a criminal protective order. Oh my gosh. So it seems like there were a lot of heavy Instagram posts and then they were tagging like everybody in their lives to like make it a thing. Wow. Yeah. Definitely I can see how Gina did not feel safe. I mean, that's actually scary.

Starting point is 01:04:00 Yeah. It is interesting though, like retrospectively that she didn't talk about this stuff on the show. So from an audience perspective, it looks like we're confused why she's moving out from Travis or Travis is moving out. That doesn't make a lot more sense. But now it's coming out that they just kept that away from the show.

Starting point is 01:04:16 Which I respect. And good for Tina. I mean, I, I hate it when this stuff is bleeding into the real, I don't, you know, these kids are involved. I don't know. It's yucky. But anyways, all right, well, we'll see how things progress next week

Starting point is 01:04:30 on to Salt Lake City. What is the definition of a rumor? Well, apparently Meredith, she's doesn't- Not spreading rumors. Right. Like- While describing a rumor being spread. Starting a rumor.

Starting point is 01:04:43 So this, when we talked about- She's starting it or spreading it? She started it on camera. That, yes. But spreading it. She brings it to national fucking television. And then she's like, but it wasn't me. But I'm not spreading rumors.

Starting point is 01:04:55 I'm not talking about them because they don't like me. So I wouldn't go to them, you shouldn't. I'm like, this is literally the formula that gets her in trouble every season. And she's like, I don't understand why everybody thinks I start rumors. When we told you the blow. This is literally a rumor you're starting or spreading.

Starting point is 01:05:10 She makes someone else talk about it and then she's like, I didn't do it. Why are you talking about that? Yeah, then why are you talking about it? Then if I told you in confidence, why, why? And it's like. For the blow job thing, when we told you about that, she told Whitney it. So Meredith prompted the conversation on camera and then it all became like Whitney started the rumor.

Starting point is 01:05:24 Mm hmm. And it was like. To this day, they all like claim that Whitney was one that started it. the conversation on camera, and then it all became like Whitney started the rumor. And to this day, they all claim that Whitney was the one that started it. And it's on camera. It's like, in their mind, not gossiping or spreading or starting a rumor is if someone else has talked about said rumor, then apparently they think it's... Common knowledge. That's not gossip.

Starting point is 01:05:40 That's literally what gossip is. That's gossiping about a rumor. She's the what gossip is. That's gossiping about a rumor. She's the queen of rumors. That's why you have the soundbite last season, the rumors and nastiness. It's like, that's her whole thing. I feel like maybe Meredith kicked it off, but it seems to be more, like you tell me, Justin.

Starting point is 01:06:00 Salt Lake City seems to be, they love their rumors. I mean, more than other franchises, it seems like, I mean, fuck, Raleigh-Von-Tees, I mean, all that drama was based off of alias accounts and rumor spreading and gossips, and it was like an online, like a blogging Reddit type of stuff. And it seems like the Salt Lake City Housewives

Starting point is 01:06:21 really sling rumors more than than say, the other franchise. Is that accurate or is this? I think you're 100% correct and that's why Monica was like the perfect catalyst cause it's like every season there was some fake account or someone tweeted something or someone knew someone that cheated on something. You know, like there's rumors everywhere.

Starting point is 01:06:39 Like how can we believe anything that any of them say at this point? I guess you can. Is any of it true? Is there any, like the whole Greek mafia, the whole like, it's like, what is going on? I forgot about that, that's crazy. Me too, yeah.

Starting point is 01:06:53 That's crazy, her husband's like. Cause she's rich that she has to be from the Greek mafia. You got church cult leaders. Which is kind of funny though, because like, I don't think this is actually going on, but at the end of this episode, when Brawn and Lisa are kind of going at it, and then Heather kind of walks up behind her,

Starting point is 01:07:12 almost kind of aggressively behind Brawn's back. And in the first few episodes, you got Jen Shaw in prison, Monica, she's gone. Not that Monica was ever the ringleader, but it really feels like, you know how in like mafia movies where like the boss gets arrested or eliminated and there's like a fight for who rises to be the next new boss? And it kind of feels like that's what's going on with this group. Lisa really wants the mantle and it can't help but feel like Heather's decided to like be her number two and they're getting in it together, trying to create the leaders of this group

Starting point is 01:07:47 and leaders of the storylines. It feels very mafia, as if they're, maybe it's just me. Nick's starting a rumor. I'm sorry. Lisa and Heather are involved in the mafia. I'm starting a rumor about their intentions of the group. It just, like, it's- You're right.

Starting point is 01:08:03 I didn't feel like Heather walked up on her aggressively at all. I think she, like, was, she was, like, waving, like, at Whitney or someone super smiley, and then it was like she just joined the conversation because she knew what the fuck they were talking about. No, but I get. Do you feel aggressive?

Starting point is 01:08:17 No, you have a point. You have a point. I don't mean, like, aggressive, like she physically did anything aggressive, but, like, she's clear, for whatever reason, I don't know what happened in the off season, but Heather and Lisa have become very aligned.

Starting point is 01:08:29 I didn't remember that in season four of them being that aligned. It's Whitney standing up to Lisa and getting pushed up. So you got Heather and Lisa together, Lisa and Brawn are having a fight, and then Heather comes up behind Brawn, which on its face, it's just kind of like, when you gotta turn around to check who's at your six,

Starting point is 01:08:46 it's a little like, whatever. And I don't think Heather meant anything by, that's where, I mean, obviously, I'm just creating an narrative here. Well, I think cameras were just standing where she probably was. Sure. It just kind of looked almost as if Heather was having her girls back, Lisa.

Starting point is 01:08:59 It's just, you know, like. I think you just summoned, because Heather was walking, and then all of a sudden you hear Lisa go, Heather, we're talking about. And Heather was like, okay, here I am. Yeah, I'm sure I'm making this up. I'm sure I'm starting a rumor.

Starting point is 01:09:12 No, you have a point though about like the, it's like the popular girls thing. Right, like the three are deciding that they're gonna be, maybe Bronwyn's not part of this, but like the two of them are deciding like, we're gonna be the dominant leaders. It's like every time there's drama, they either cut to Lisa or Heather to get their like,

Starting point is 01:09:28 is this accurate? Like they always seem to get the last word about the righteousness of whatever thing they're talking about. Well and about that kind of side note, but Monica has been posting quite a bit because obviously I'm sure she's getting tagged on things on a regular.

Starting point is 01:09:44 But the whole reasoning why these women didn't want Monica back on the show is because she's dangerous. She reminds them of Jen Shaw, and they have to be constantly traumatized by what this woman did to them. And then Lisa just went on a podcast and was talking about how Jen is harmless,

Starting point is 01:10:00 unless you're an elderly person, and then laughed about it. So Monica's been going nuts on social media media being like, I thought I was dangerous, but yet you would film with Jen, but you won't film with me. So why can't I be on the show? It's like, it's not making sense. You're saying that your safety is at harm, but yet you would film with Jen who gave your co-star a black eye admittedly.

Starting point is 01:10:21 And this is to Lisa specifically. Monica, you can't control her and like you can't, like sticks and stones may break your bones, but Monica is like fucking. Dynamite. Yeah, whatever. So exactly what you're saying, it's like Heather and Lisa have like tied together

Starting point is 01:10:36 being like this woman cannot be, like can't come at us because we need to control the situation, there's no controlling Monica, so now we don't feel safe, but you would film with Jen again? That's wild. That is crazy. Right?

Starting point is 01:10:48 Harmless unless you're an elderly person. And laughing about the elderly. And laughing about it, mm-hmm. Wait, can we talk about Alibaba? Aliexpress. Aren't we spreading the rumor, though? The nastiness. What is, from what I know about Alibaba.

Starting point is 01:11:01 It's Aliexpress. It's Aliexpress, but like, the fact that Meredith and Heather. It's not the same. It's the same thing. Because Alibaba is a thing. It's aliexpress. It's aliexpress, but like the fact that Meredith and Heather. It's not the same. It's the same thing. Aliebaba is a thing. It's a website. It's like Amazon in China. Isn't it called Aliexpress?

Starting point is 01:11:11 It's called Aliexpress. Aliebaba.com is the B2B e-commerce platform. So yeah, you buy cheap things on it. But they showed Aliexpress. Is it the same thing or a different thing? Okay, so that's where they got confused. So like they were actually referencing Aliexpress, but then Meredith was saying Aliebaba and so was Heather. Are or a different thing? Okay, so that's where they got confused. So like they were actually referencing AliExpress, but then Meredith was saying Alibaba,

Starting point is 01:11:26 and so was Heather. Are they two different things? They are two different websites that I think do the exact same thing. They are, yeah. Okay, all right. And what is the alleged, what is the accusation? That Whitney, so Whitney has a jewelry line prism.

Starting point is 01:11:39 So the accusation is that she's buying cheap jewelry from AliExpress or Alibaba, and then like selling it for a premium or good quality price, essentially. Well, what is cheap jewelry? But most people, a lot of people, a lot of reality TV stars who have their own line are securing products, like any other business,

Starting point is 01:11:59 get the product, and then they up the price so they can make money. I mean, yeah, what is the big? You're talking about like, I think it was for a single piece was like, if not 98 cents with under $5 and then selling it for 60. Yeah. So making a profit off of a cheap product. Which again, that's what she's implying.

Starting point is 01:12:20 That's called, that's called capitalism. Yeah. So Meredith is saying she got tagged. I love when it's like, well, people were just tagging me in it. So I just like, I'm just speaking about it. And then you message that person, they're like, I never check my DMs. It's like, what? Huh? Which one is it? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:12:38 Well, and remember, Meredith is like the queen of like the DMs. So it's like the mafia thing came to her DMs. She got the SEO or SCI, whatever the filing about this company for Lisa's company the season before. So she's always getting DMS of something. I mean, listen, I don't know these. I don't know what Whitney is selling and I don't know what products are. I don't know the quality of it or whatever. But like, listen, like if her quality of her products aren't good, her customers will speak up. She will lose business.

Starting point is 01:13:05 It's like, you know, how much she paid for it and how much she marks it up, like, that's not a crime. That's like, and I'm pretty sure Lisa loves a margin. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know what she's buying her tequila for or whatever her products are, but I bet she's selling it for more than she's buying it for. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:13:26 I don't really know what the big scandal is. Meredith was mostly doing it, and this is me just assuming. No, but that was actually Heather. That was Heather putting it out there that if this is true, this is damning. Yes, yeah. And maybe I'm misinformed,

Starting point is 01:13:39 maybe I don't know what the damning element is, but this sounds like commerce to me. Yeah, like if we're claiming it's 24 karat gold and it's being sold for $60, it's dipped, it's not solid gold. I don't know, is Winnie claiming it's for it to be something that's not? That's what I'm saying, I highly doubt it,

Starting point is 01:13:55 because you can't, nothing costs $60, that's 100% gold. I know nothing, I know almost nothing about jewelry. I'm sure. Yeah, that checks out though. Other than like, you know, it seems costly. But if I'm spending 60 bucks on jewelry, I'm pretty much certain it has very low value. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:14:14 If I had to guess how much it cost to make, I probably would guess less than 10 bucks. You know? That'd be my guess. Yeah. It's metal dipped in something, but anyways, my point being is that I don't think that she's also falsely claiming it to be something

Starting point is 01:14:25 it's not at that price point. I know. Last time I checked it was gold plated on her website. Yeah, and gold plated literally means if you wear it in water, it will rust and it will be damaged. So take good care of it or know that it's temporary. See, like to me, like this is like, this is character assassination from Lisa.

Starting point is 01:14:41 It is. I also think you can go on any jewelry website, any of these places, and you can find the exact same product on AliExpress. Yeah, a lot of the time. And probably the same photo. I'm not saying that these other places are taking them from AliExpress.

Starting point is 01:14:58 Is AliExpress taking the photos from them? How do we know? Who had the photos first? Meredith is like, and she's using the same photo, and it's like, well, did AliExpress get it from Whitney? And replicate her shit, and now everyone's saying it's the other way around? Think about how hardcore these ladies play.

Starting point is 01:15:16 These ladies, they don't fuck around. You have Meredith, who's upset with Whitney about launching a bath bomb business, regardless of how long Whitney's had her bath bombs out. And so the next episode, you got Meredith spreading a rumor that I can only assume her goal is to destroy her credibility and therefore company. I'm like, what?

Starting point is 01:15:34 That's fucking hardcore. That is like- You don't insult Meredith's bath, that's why. You insulted her bath and that's her one thing that she's like, don't touch it. Girl, I love a bath as much as the next one. I'm not coming for your business over it. Your livelihood?

Starting point is 01:15:47 Yeah, that is insane. Your family, that's, I mean, that's. Well, and then we have the caviar. So Whitney asking Meredith to bring her caviar and then Meredith spinning it around to be like, I was already bringing it. So catty and just like unnecessary. But also like, I've moved things around

Starting point is 01:16:01 so that I can make it to Milwaukee. Crazy. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah. Whitney's come back the previous episode and she's like, great, don't come. Like that killed me. I really wanna like Meredith.

Starting point is 01:16:13 I do. I feel like, sometimes I feel like Meredith just wants a best friend and needs a hug and she just needs, does Meredith have a sister? I don't know. I feel like she just wants her one sister, her one friend and this acting out is just, and it's an acting out of, you know,

Starting point is 01:16:30 I wanna see it that way. She does have a sister. She does. Yeah. I remember the sister came on. Did she ever fall in love? No, but the sister came on for a storyline like two seasons ago.

Starting point is 01:16:38 Meredith always gives us like, you know, if you're nice to me, I'm nice to you, right? But if you fuck with me, I'll kill you. Well, it seems like most of them are like that. But Meredith really seems like she wants to be nice, but she always does something to like fuck with people. It's a lawyer in her because she's a good person. And I personally like her as a character. But it's like the lawyer of her being like, I'm going to present the information, but stay silent to protect my legality of it.

Starting point is 01:17:01 It's like, but she's trying to destroy so much life over what doesn't seem to be, and spreading nasty fucking rumors, that's dangerous. Like that's fucking crazy. It's one thing to be like, I don't like her, she rubs me the wrong way. But like putting out there, like putting out a narrative and then like Heather backing that up,

Starting point is 01:17:24 most of the people who watch this show have no fucking clue like what they're even talking about about what Whitney is allegedly doing wrong. And you have Heather being like, if this is true, it's fucking damaging. It's like, huh? Yeah. It just seems a little much.

Starting point is 01:17:39 What's crazier than all of that is Mary saying she uses a tampon to hold her pee. And I know we started the woman argument of this entry with like flush tampons or put them in the trash, but I feel like we can all collectively agree. It's impossible. It doesn't work that way. As a man, I know that there's different holes, right?

Starting point is 01:17:58 There are. So that biologically does not even make sense. It does not. It does not make sense. Maybe she's talking about like the pressure of like one is like helping her whole. Mary described it at first. Is I think this is a placebo thing going on for Mary.

Starting point is 01:18:14 Because she said, when I do this, I don't have to pee. She didn't say that when I put a tampon in, I don't have to worry about peeing. She implied that it stops her from having to pee. If you listen to it back, she's like, I've never had to pee. But then she talks about the type of tampon you need, which suggests that she's planning on peeing on said tampon.

Starting point is 01:18:38 But I'm guessing that's not happening. But wouldn't that be crazy if, let's say Mary's always done this, and we gotta assume that Mary's just not making it up. Maybe she's just doing it, thinking that it stops her from peeing. It's a placebo effect. It just kind of gives her that like,

Starting point is 01:18:50 hey, when I'm out there, don't worry. Like, it gives her that confidence that she can hold it because there's a tamp. She doesn't use public bathrooms. Meanwhile, she gives like advice to a friend who like, is this, maybe just believes Mary. And she's like, hey, just, you know, you just gotta have a tampon.

Starting point is 01:19:04 Just make sure you get the plus size. Next thing you know, friends out in public, is this, maybe just believe it's Mare. And she's like, hey, you know, just gotta have a tampon, just make sure you get the plus size. Next thing you know, friends out in public, big event. They're like, don't worry, I got a tampon in, tries to pee, water down the leg thinking, Mare! What the fuck? I also love how she's like, you can't get small or medium. And it's like, that's not also what they're called.

Starting point is 01:19:21 And sure it's supersize is what she said. What are they called? Well there's regular, super, super and super plus. Okay. And like, but do you think she, I mean, do you think she just made it up? Do you think she does this? Do you think, what do you think is going on here? I think she does it and I think she puts it in

Starting point is 01:19:40 and like the pressure of it just like doesn't, she like doesn't think about peeing. She like doesn't have to pee when she has a tampon in I feel like that's but I feel like anytime a woman sits down on a toilet you pee like regardless and so I don't know I feel like it definitely is a placebo effect I feel like if I did that and was like okay now that I'm putting this tampon in I'm not gonna have to pee maybe I wouldn't but if she's if she is and maybe it wasn't. But if she is saying, maybe it wasn't clear, but if she is saying that she pees and the tampon is supposed to catch it,

Starting point is 01:20:09 like it catches blood, like it just doesn't, that just. Well, there's no way that happens. It's not working that way. It can't. There's never been a report of Mary peeing her pants in public, and if she was doing that, right? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:20:21 Yes. I don't know. What's going on with Brittany and Jared? All right. Well, at least for in this episode, we know the whole Angie Kay's brow girl has been flirting with Jared, the DMs, and the laugh emoji, tongue out with Winky, the probably.

Starting point is 01:20:39 But outside of the show, basically, Jared has been posting on Instagram saying, fascinating part of Brittany's story is that she adds so much drama for no reason. Truly, in an attempt to be relevant, if you wanna know the truth or our history, I have never walked away from her. I've always been steady, spoiled her over the last year,

Starting point is 01:20:57 paid for everything, and have been a true gentleman. Rather than just steadily stay with me and work through all of the dating issues that pop up, she runs like a scared child. I'd need to date a stable woman. For the record, Britney has a job on the show because I decided to go on. I give her relevance, I give her a talking point.

Starting point is 01:21:14 She promised me that we wouldn't take our love on camera, that it would be best friends, hence the reason for all the best friend comments. That's crazy. How many times have they gotten together and broken up? 16. 16. Like you don't get to say any of this.

Starting point is 01:21:28 Like you are- They paid for everything, come the fuck on. Are you chivalrous or not? They're throwing it back in people's face. Are you best friends or not? Crazy. Like, cause if you're paying for everything, bro, you are not homies.

Starting point is 01:21:40 Yeah. That's true. That's a good point. But you also do say, just because they pay for everything doesn't mean you're in a relationship with them. When you're like, friends wanna pay for everything, friends wanna meet your family. No, I say friends wanna meet your family,

Starting point is 01:21:53 friends wanna go to a movie with you, friends wanna take trips with you, friends don't pay for everything. Yeah. Well, and he's saying that like, the best friend was because of the storyline, but then basically she went on to being like, we're dating. They are dating. Yeah. Tell telling her she runs like a scared child is so fucking offensive and like me yeah

Starting point is 01:22:10 It's are they having sex probably are is he if he's paying he's admitting to paying for everything And I don't even know if it's true. He wants the credit for paying for everything Yeah but even the statement that Brittany has a job because I Decided to go on to give her relevance and give her a talking point. But then you said that you guys promised that you wouldn't talk about your relationship on camera.

Starting point is 01:22:30 Which is it? So which one is it? Which one is it? Yeah. These men need to step the fuck back. It's crazy. Like the goal that these men have to like come out and put these public statements being like,

Starting point is 01:22:44 it's I'm the reason that you're relevant, like you're trailer trash, that's crazy. He's been one of a plus one boyfriend. You know who's unproblematic? Brawn's husband. Yeah. Who also has a quite soothing voice. I don't know, he said like two words this episode.

Starting point is 01:23:01 I was like, that man has a really nice voice. Brawn also had like five confessional outfits by now. Oh my God. She's had a lot. She's had a lot. She also put us, put a little insight into their sex life. When she said she's having sex with a man with gout or something like that.

Starting point is 01:23:15 That's old enough to have gout. She's old enough to have gout. And it's horrendous. Oh yes, it is horrendous. Not the sex, but I think the fact that her partner has gout. Wait, does he have gout or does he, he doesn't? It was old enough to have gout.

Starting point is 01:23:25 My dad has gout too. Oh. Yeah. But he isn't, that's the thing, money can buy you a lot of things, but can't stop you from getting gout. You know? Yeah. Also back to the Jared part of it, even in the DMs that Angie was showing,

Starting point is 01:23:38 Jared explicitly says that he's not with Brittany. So it's like- I mean, again, this town is so small, and the same way that we're just talking about the way that the gossip flows around this town, like the man is hitting on Angie's brow girl. There must be some sort of mutual friends involved here and he does not give a fuck about her. Everything he's saying in this DM is evidence how much of a fuck boy he is acting like to

Starting point is 01:24:03 Brittany. Brittany. And it's just like the back and forth. You know, just like the contradiction in this statement is evidence of his contradiction to her. You know what I'm saying? Like in the back and forth, it's like, are you together, are we not together?

Starting point is 01:24:19 We're not together, but like he clearly wants her around at his convenience whenever she wants, when he needs companionship, when he needs a she wants, when he needs companionship, when he needs a travel buddy, when he needs a sex partner, whatever. He is, you know, and now he's weaponizing her availability at his convenience against her. It's as low as it goes.

Starting point is 01:24:36 Like this is, isn't, he's the, what, the grandson of the Osmonds or something? Yeah. He's a descendant of Mormon royalty. Mm-hmm, essentially. You know, and this is, a guy like this is why or something. Yeah. He's a descendant of Mormon royalty. Essentially. You know, and a guy like this is why nepotism people, you know, have to face the harsh criticisms that they do because of people like him, you know?

Starting point is 01:24:54 He's a true, this is nepotism at its best. This isn't hardworking, this is sad. Yeah. He's 53 years old too, by the way. He's grown, yeah. Needing to put a comment to his 4,000 followers on Instagram. That, just so you know. All right, team Brit.

Starting point is 01:25:10 I respect Angie for telling Brittany though. Like, cause I know Angie- Well, she was telling Bronwyn, wasn't it? And then Brittany says, are you talking about me? That was funny to see her the whole time in the center of the frame when they were talking about her. Respect is a strong word. Well, but she was asking, how do I tell her?

Starting point is 01:25:30 And I will give, and a lot of the times, everyone's like, do the right thing, do the right thing. Sometimes stuff like that, especially when it doesn't actually involve you, that is some of the most terrifying news to try to break to somebody. And especially if you're not close to them, why am I the person doing it? Like I understand from Angie's point

Starting point is 01:25:48 of having reservations being like, am I the one to do it? Can I talk through this with you as to like what's the best way to go about this? Cause it's sensitive information. It's gonna hurt her no matter what. I am also glad Meredith went with her to the bathroom. Yeah. Yeah, that was sweet. See, I'm telling you, Meredith wants to be nice.

Starting point is 01:26:03 She is nice. Angie Kay's giving me life See, I'm telling you, Meredith wants to be nice. She is nice. And UK is giving me life too. I love how delightful, she posted, we posted a meme of her like Greek outfit that somebody posted in their story. And they said, I wish all housewives were this delightfully tacky. And I love the fact that she reposted it

Starting point is 01:26:18 cause she's like, thriving it. Embracing it. Yeah, I love her. All right, well, until next week, it's time for Joey and Kelsey. There are a few things in this world that I will live, breathe, die, exist for one of them being Nutrifol. Nutrifol is the number one dermatologist recommended

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Starting point is 01:29:10 breakthrough. For an exclusive offer go to BuyOptimizers.com slash VIALL and use promo code VIALL during checkout to save 10% and if you subscribe not only will you get amazing discounts and free gifts you will make sure your monthly supply is guaranteed by optimizers.com slash vi all welcome back guys good to be back how are you good good yeah we are in LA now so it's it's been good but things are exciting there's a lot going on so yeah you're like living here well temporarily but we are starting to look at places in LA, which is exciting. So we're starting that process. You're becoming an LA.

Starting point is 01:29:50 That is the idea right now. I'm not sure if Kelsey's fully sold yet, but we're making our way. Because I feel like last time you were here. It was New York. It was New York. Yes. Kelsey, do you want to touch on that? I mean, yeah, we were originally wanting, well, I wanted to live in New York.

Starting point is 01:30:04 I've always wanted to live in New York, but I feel like LA still gives that city vibe to an extent, but then also it's got the sun and the beach for Joey, which I know would make him a little happier. I'm like, he would probably be really depressed in New York. So I guess I have to think about him too. What kind of a bag or purse or any, what are you gonna be getting, Kelsey,

Starting point is 01:30:23 for living your dreams? I think every day there's gonna be a new gift. Now I get to live my dream. So yeah, no, I gotta definitely repay that one as much as possible. Nellie moved to LA for me and she's got a lot of purses now. Yeah, she's already gotten one or two,

Starting point is 01:30:37 but I'm sure we're gonna add some more to the collection here for this one, which is good. What is your thing, Kelsey? What's like, do you have like a guilt? Guilty pleasure? Honestly, I don't know I feel like I kind of wear the same person's I kind of you love her. She loves a nice new purse I do love a new

Starting point is 01:30:53 Like you like a new jewelry piece too Yeah, like whenever other people buy me jewelry cuz it's like I would probably buy myself a purse But I don't think I'd buy myself like a necklace or a new Yeah, she's not really subtle about it either I'd buy myself a purse, but I don't think I'd buy myself like a new necklace or a new bracelet. Yeah. She's not really subtle about it either. She'll be like, yeah, have you seen this like amazing new piece of jewelry that I want? No, now he's not subtle either. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:31:13 Which is, I would prefer it that way. Yeah, like if you ever want to give me a gift, this is what you should get me. Yeah. No, I find it to be helpful. Yeah, it is. Yeah, point me in the right direction. Exactly. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:31:22 Can't be wrong then. Yeah. Like all this, it's the thought that counts. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. I don't want to see that face when she opens up a gift and it was just like, what is this? You got to be this bracelet without my knowledge. That was a Carly Grazade special.

Starting point is 01:31:36 My sister helped a lot on that one. Oh, okay. What is that? It's Lagos? Yeah. That's expensive. It's like a Philly brand. Don't forget about the David Yerman that's on that wrist too.

Starting point is 01:31:45 See, I have, we've already started the gifts. Okay, she's cool. We started the gifts. Wow. I mean, as you should though. She's literally living your dream. You know, so. And listen, they're like, you can pass them down, you know.

Starting point is 01:32:02 Exactly, I'm like, yeah, it's an heirloom, you know? It's an heirloom. It's an heirloom. Exactly. It is. Like a lot of people say purses are investments and while they definitely are, like I'm probably not going to sell any of mine,

Starting point is 01:32:15 they're all just gonna go to my daughter's and they're gonna be so, they're gonna be so vicious. Exactly, they're gonna love it. The point is if we do fall in hard times. Oh, whoa! You know, we might have to stop. I feel like we just don't have a job. The point is if we do fall in hard times. Oh, oh, whoa. I feel like we don't have a job. We wouldn't eat for a week is fine with me, you know, and then we'll.

Starting point is 01:32:32 What would you do if we, if I was like, babe, we've had a tough year. I think I'd probably go for like the Tom Ford suit, tuxedo, jacket. Oh, the one we got married in. Oh! Oh, yes, of course. Over like a, no, no, I'd probably sell

Starting point is 01:32:52 that Dolce & Gabbana one that you got me that you- That you fucking hate. Well, it's just not, you know, like, it was, you only bought it to make that other woman jealous. So- That's not entirely true. I was at a fundraiser, took Andrew Spencer as my date because now he was pregnant.

Starting point is 01:33:08 And we were at one of these fundraisers where you, you know, bid on things. Yeah. And usually I'll just like find, you know, or you can just like at the end, they're like, who wants to donate a couple bucks? You're like, yeah, here's 500 bucks. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:33:20 And then I was sitting next across the table. I forgot who. And she was, she like recognized me and then was nice at first and then kind of got annoying and was like, where's your girlfriend? Or she just started asking questions about like Natalie in like almost a weird way. And so Natalie likes purses and I was,

Starting point is 01:33:37 I had my eye on the Dolce & Gabbana purse. It was a little sparkly. I thought maybe this is something new. So yeah, I got it. And I was like, I forgot how it went. But I definitely, there was motivation behind her running her mouth and being like, you know what? I'm gonna get her something nice though.

Starting point is 01:33:51 Here you go. Actually, this is for Natalie. Back to the point, if she didn't like that purse, it's because she didn't pick out the purse. So back to the original point. Now I was like, dang. Dang, this is sparkly. The same thing happened with my push present.

Starting point is 01:34:04 He just kind of got, the sales associate at Louis Vuitton was in his ear chirping and he trusted her and then I was like, this is so pretty. So I'm O for two. Okay. Well. For buying Natalie purses without her telling me.

Starting point is 01:34:23 The Lagos was the only one I've done on my own every other time in this band. You got me a butterfly neck. Yeah, that one was another. I just see. Two for two, let's go. Okay. Wow.

Starting point is 01:34:33 A competition every year. No, I'm not gonna keep trying. I think two's the only I'm going for. I'm gonna let you pick moving forward. It's a pajama day here at the Viola Folls. It is, you guys look great. We don't really sleep in this stuff. Yeah, what do you sleep in Joey? I do like sleeping naked majority of the time, but if not, I'm naked full on if I I don't know feels comfortable

Starting point is 01:34:53 He also gets like really hot in his sleep. I feel like that's harsh. Yeah, maybe I don't know I don't know if on what kind of underwear wait is it wool underwear you wear? Where do you're wearing? It's true, true. No, I've got wool. Where do you get wool underwear? How hot are you? I'm saying no shirt, at least. No shirt, definitely. Maybe I'll be wearing briefs. Yeah, usually.

Starting point is 01:35:12 I feel like you usually wear briefs. But naked often. But naked, yeah, sometimes. Nick doesn't really dabble in the nakedness. I just feel like- It's very European. I just feel like you might roll over in the wrong way. Yeah, I can see that.

Starting point is 01:35:27 I mean, honestly, it's something you have to do when you're in your own setting, so I don't know. It's not like I'm going to hotels and like, yeah, but it's like, if you're home, it's okay. I don't know. Okay. He can't give any advice to anyone else looking to sleep naked.

Starting point is 01:35:44 This is his journey. Yeah, of course. Of course. Well, thank you for sharing. Hey, anytime. Do you want to talk about the backflip? That was pretty cool. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:35:52 Uh, that was my feet are still hurting is what I'm thinking about with that backflip. That was, we had to practice that so many times. And the one thing about it was you had to hit it correctly in the time of the music. So usually when I would do that flip, I would try to be soft on my feet, especially because I was like wearing vans, it's on a hard floor, but I had to make sure I landed at the exact time

Starting point is 01:36:13 to be able to then hit the dance move. So what I started doing was I started throwing my feet down and my heels I think are bruised right now because they just hurt this week as we get into the next dance. Oh no. Yeah, but you know, no pain, no gain. Should we give a backstory

Starting point is 01:36:27 on why we know he's doing a back flip? Yeah, probably. Where we were at, we were at Dancing with the Stars. No one knows, it was top secret. Yes, it was top secret. It was, it was delayed. How do you feel about Danny also doing it? I honestly felt like that was kind of bullshit.

Starting point is 01:36:42 Hey, I mean, it was different though. It was different. He was like off the top. Let's be honest, you're kind of competing with the same, you guys are competing for votes. Yeah. You're both kind of like the heartthrobs, you know, like, is Danny single?

Starting point is 01:36:56 Uh, I don't, is Danny single? I think so. You kind of look similar. Yeah. You know, if you're half paying attention, it's like is it Danny, is it Joey dancing? Honestly, I love Danny. He's been one of the people that I've gotten along with the most

Starting point is 01:37:07 throughout the competition. And we did find out like middle to end of the week that they were doing a backflip too. First reaction was like, whoa, we were doing a backflip. And then I went up to him and we talked to him and Whitney and they said how theirs was way different. If Whitney flipped Danny, I would have had more issues with it because I would have been like, that's kind of the same move we're doing. But they had a completely different dance. They had a different idea.

Starting point is 01:37:29 He did it off the stairs. He did it without assistance. Hey, that's fine. Danny's actually can do a backflip. I need help. I feel like he had a little assistance from, you know, jumping higher, right? You know, because then you have longer time to flip and then land it. So I feel like it's the same, you know, you also went for a level. I'm just happy both of us survived our flips. Let's just say that. I talked to Danny the night after the show

Starting point is 01:37:50 and he said he felt like he played a football game the night before. So we were both hurting going into that week because I think it was, we didn't want to do any more flips. Next time you see Danny and you want to get in his head, like next on- Tonight. Tonight, right before it goes out,

Starting point is 01:38:03 just be like, hey, Danny, why couldn't you win special forces because like a bunch of other bachelors have so like what's up with that kind of was he on your season or no he was on Hannah's he did he honestly did very well but yeah did not finish hey didn't win he quit no I haven't got a chance to ask him about that show because when we met him initially in the beginning the whole process he was with Dwight and I knew that they knew each other and I didn't got a chance to ask him about that show because when we met him initially in the beginning of the whole process, he was with Dwight and I knew that they knew each other and I didn't know it was because of special forces

Starting point is 01:38:28 and everything. Yeah. Dwight also couldn't finish. Hey, they said it was very difficult. They gave us a little background on it, but they said it was really tough. Would you do it? I would be open to it.

Starting point is 01:38:38 It seemed like an amazing experience. You had a great time on it, right? I mean, obviously- I had a great time. Not a great time. I had an amazing experience. That's what I, I would be curious how I would deal with the mental fortitude of something like that.

Starting point is 01:38:50 It just seems. I think you do well. Yeah, it seems very challenging. You kind of learn a different side about yourself, but I'd be open to it. It seems like, as you said, a very amazing experience, but very difficult at the same time. Yeah, it's literal torture.

Starting point is 01:39:04 Yeah. I don't know how it's literal torture. Yeah? I don't know how I do with torture. Why don't I find out? Are you a picky eater? I used to be when I was a kid, like super picky. Now I'm probably the opposite. I eat almost anything. Okay.

Starting point is 01:39:14 Well, that would help. I have issues with texture is what we've come down to. You just like mashed potatoes. Mashed potatoes, but like I like potatoes, but I don't like the like consistency of mashed potatoes. But like the thing is, if someone gave me mashed potatoes, I would eat mashed potatoes. It just wouldn't be what I would first. Like I don't like the like consistency of mashed potatoes But like the thing is if someone gave me mashed potatoes, I would eat mashed potatoes It just wouldn't be what I would first like I won't not eat anything I just in particular about what I'll eat with textures. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's pretty much the side

Starting point is 01:39:33 That's the idea. I don't like seafood because of the texture. It's all chewy and gummy for me I'll eat any seafood Hawaii changed me. I love like sea urchin like weird Yeah, how is this whole experience been for you, Kelsey? It's been good. I mean, I've never really been to LA to actually be able to experience it. I feel like every time we came to LA, it was like we're doing press stuff

Starting point is 01:39:54 or it was like for the show where we were pretty much locked away. That was my first time ever coming to LA, was with the show. So I feel like it's nice to be able to explore around here, meet new people. Everyone says like LA is fake, but I feel like everyone I've met has been really nice

Starting point is 01:40:07 and great and normal. So I'm like, I haven't experienced that yet. But yeah, I mean, I'm enjoying it. Joey's gone. I mean, pretty much every day for most of the day with training. So I've kind of found my own groove and I'm also still traveling.

Starting point is 01:40:22 Like I went to New York last week and then had something before that. So I'm just kind of figuring out my own space here. You're busy. Yeah. That's exciting. Is it, and we now know that Joey asked for a dancing partner and a healthy relationship.

Starting point is 01:40:36 Is that something when you guys went into the season, like you guys discussed or did you really not even worry about it? I mean, I was the one who was cheering him on, being like, you should do Dancing with the Stars. I think you would kill it on Dancing with the Stars. Obviously I was right, I'm always right. But no, I feel like I was worried

Starting point is 01:40:53 just because I saw how people shipped Riley and Harry together so hard. I remember I was like, oh, we're gonna have to go through that again, because with The Bachelor, I feel like people did that. Yeah, but then it leaned in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was just like, you know, because with The Bachelor, I feel like people did that. Yeah, but they leaned in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was just like, oh gosh, is that gonna be a thing?

Starting point is 01:41:09 But like, I didn't really like tell them like, absolutely, you cannot, like you cannot go on if like you have these people or anything, but I was like, you know, yeah, definitely I would prefer. In my experience, that stuff was way overhyped in terms of it's kind of however you approach it, you know, like if you don't wanna lean in, if you wanna like set an expectation

Starting point is 01:41:26 with your dancing partner, like where you stand. Like I have found, like the pros, I'm sure you agree, they're a great group of people. There have been showmances before, but they're not, it's not like The Bachelor where they're like, they work for the show and they're starting drama. It's nothing like that shit.

Starting point is 01:41:41 So like they're a great group of people and- Has it been proven that some sort of romance between Pro and Star like makes them win or makes them go further? For sure. I think the reason why a lot of times they do lean into the show man's is cause they want to see the development of it.

Starting point is 01:41:58 They like, they're gonna get more votes cause people wanna see, is it going to keep going? I would think, I think that's just a theory though. I don't know if there's any proven thing to it, but obviously Harry and Riley went really far last season. I think a lot of it was because of the social and things that they were doing. What I've noticed being in it,

Starting point is 01:42:15 the pros only have so much bandwidth. The amount of work that they have to do to think of a routine every week to actually get your dancer ready to go and learn to dance as quick as they need to and then get to the level of it performing as well as it needs to on stage. Like I don't even know how you add a showman in there. Like how is that even possible for some of these people because it's just there's so many things you have to focus on. I can't even imagine trying

Starting point is 01:42:37 to actually add into that kind of force too. Yeah but if you were single and your dancing partner is hot and you're kind of like why not? I guess I didn't realize that the pros made up every, like all the choreography. I thought it was like, Yeah, that's crazy. Here's a little something, teach it to your star. Like, but they come up with every move. At the end of like, you have to think of how a week works too, because by Mondays and Tuesdays, we're getting ready for that dance. They're usually on Sundays or Saturday, if we're in a good spot, are already planning the next week's routine, hopeful that you're gonna

Starting point is 01:43:07 be sticking around. And as it goes further, you start doing two dances, so they have even more pressure on them. But I give Jenna nothing but credit. Like it's wild sometimes to see how quickly she can think of stuff, how much she's putting extra time in outside of it. So as much as I'm busy, those pros are even busier

Starting point is 01:43:23 with all the stuff they have to do. And I gotta say, you're really good. Thanks, man. You are. I appreciate it. You got moves. And what you actually, well, I only seen one of your dances and I don't really remember mine,

Starting point is 01:43:35 but what do I fucking know about dancing? But what was clear when I watched you is you're having fun, you're in the moment, you're smiling. Me, I was counting my you know, counting my steps and I forgot to like look like I, I look scared. When I was dancing, literally I looked terrified because I was like always worried about the next move. You look like you're just out there having fun,

Starting point is 01:43:57 smiling, having a great time and it really, it looks great. I appreciate it, man. We figured that out on week one. We, I mean that the first couple of times you did show and tells where you had to do dances for other people was the first time that Jenna got to see me quote unquote perform and she found out very quickly that my nervous face is a dead smile.

Starting point is 01:44:14 She's like, that's great. If you're going to look uncomfortable, if you can just be like weirdly smiling the entire time, that's great for us on camera. So that was the thing I found out that was, yeah, no. She's like, usually people have really scared, intimidating faces. I was just like scared shitless

Starting point is 01:44:28 and just smiling the entire time. She's like, that's awesome. If this is your nervous face, we have a chance to get through some of these. And I was like, okay. But yeah, I think it's confidence in the dance, just doing it enough. But I have been surprised how much it has felt comfortable

Starting point is 01:44:41 to perform. You still feel those butterflies. You get very nervous before, but then when it starts, I just kind of can stay in it, I guess, and it's, it's been fun. I've really enjoyed it. Like it's been a lot of fun. Kelsey, is he like doing dance moves in the living room? Like showing you the dance, like, like talent show a little bit.

Starting point is 01:44:57 Yeah. Like once he tried to show me like with me and it was so bad. I am like the opposite of a dancer. I have two left feet. Um, but it's funny. He, after one, I think it was like the. I am like the opposite of a dancer. I have two left feet. But it's funny, after one, I think it was like the first week or second week, he came back home and he was like, Kelsey, I think I wanna continue dancing after all of this.

Starting point is 01:45:14 And I was telling Carly, I was telling his sister Carly about it and I was like, Carly, it was so adorable, the way he was like, I wanna keep dancing. And she was like, yes, she was like, I love this. She was like, but if he starts making TikTok videos of him dancing in the living room, she's like, we're keep dancing. And she was like, yes, she was like, I love this. She was like, but if he starts making TikTok videos of him dancing in the living room, she's like, we're gonna have to have an intervention.

Starting point is 01:45:28 I do not wanna be a TikTok dancing star. I just think I actually would like to keep doing ballroom dancing, it was fun. Pros, I don't know if they still do this. It's been a few years, they've had kids, some of them had kids, maybe life's different. But the dancers, as you might suspect, do enjoy dancing. It's part of like their lives.

Starting point is 01:45:47 And often they will go to like these salsa places, like in Hollywood, and they'll bring, you know, some of the stars, like one time, it's a lot of fun. Have you ever been salsa dancing with the pros? Have you taken Kelsey? I think that that's something we definitely have to look to do. I think the schedule has been so crazy.

Starting point is 01:46:03 There hasn't been like a night off for people to do stuff, but I have heard like Bound, other people said that in the past they would like, if they had a day off, a lot of them would go out and they'd go out to somewhere and go do like, obviously there's like line dancing or salsa dancing or that would be really fun to be able to go do. Usually what happens is,

Starting point is 01:46:19 cause it's full of just people who know how to dance. And if you go salsa dancing, some guy will come up to Kelsey and grab her on the dance floor. And like just spin her around. It's actually quite funny and nice. And they're all lovely people there. It'd be fun.

Starting point is 01:46:32 I'd just probably be stepping all over his feet. You would just be dead weight. How has it been, you have your fiancee, are you guys engaged? Yeah, you're engaged. I can't keep track of all the bachelor. I don't know, some people aren't getting engaged. Did you leave just dating, are you married? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you're engaged. Okay, keep track of all the bash. I don't know, some people aren't getting engaged. Did you leave just dating?

Starting point is 01:46:45 You had a married. I don't know, okay. So you guys are engaged. How are you? You have your fiance on Monday nights, Tuesday nights. You have your dad on Wednesday nights. What's that been like for you? It's kind of crazy.

Starting point is 01:46:57 Yeah, it's crazy. I'm just like so happy for my dad. He had the best time on the show and he made so many friends and I think he just had the best experience. I know that in the show that we were on, you sometimes have different experiences, but I think the Golden is just so much more wholesome

Starting point is 01:47:13 and they really protect these guys and really want them to have a good experience. Yeah, my dad definitely had that. So I'm so happy for him. And it is weird though. I saw him, what was it? The second episode kiss Joan. He asked her in German, like, can I kiss you? Yeah, what was that like?

Starting point is 01:47:29 I was like, thankfully he gave me a little- She got a warning for it. Yeah, a warning. So I was like, oh my gosh. And then I was like freaking out. But I was in like the fetal position. It was funny because you could see it was coming and I'm watching from the side

Starting point is 01:47:42 and I see her put like her face over the pillow and I'm like this right now, just could not wait to cheer it on. Cause I love this for Mark, I think he's having the best time. My favorite part of watching the show is half watching her while watching the show. Cause she gets so giddy when her dad's on TV

Starting point is 01:47:57 and it's just, I don't know, it's fun to see. And Charles. And Charles. We love Charles too. We love Charles. We actually have, we have? Wait, you're interviewing him? Yeah. Stop, I'm so excited.

Starting point is 01:48:08 I can't wait to watch that. I just, I would die for him. I love when he talks about himself in third person. Me too. When he was like Charles, da da da. I'm like, I know. I saw his Instagram the other day. And any other man did that, I'd be like, you know?

Starting point is 01:48:17 But I'm like Charles doing it's perfect. Even his captions on his Instagram are like wholesome too. Yeah. Oh, I've not seen his answer. Went to Buckingham Palace. I think his, my guess is his daughter set it up for him and send him pictures to post. And then it's him that does the caption and it's amazing. So wholesome. You like read it in his voice and it's just, it's unbelievable.

Starting point is 01:48:38 What are his captions? The last one he did, he like compared his time on the show to the fire that was in front of him at the mansion. It was just, it was something about like, I hope it warms, I don't wanna butcher it, but it's worth looking up. It says, wow, thank you for all of your enthusiasm and support, I am thrilled that you all love me in this program.

Starting point is 01:48:58 Just like the Bachelor Mansion fireplace, your cheerful and delightful messages warmed my heart. I hope I won't disappoint you all on this show. Oh my God. I feel like I't disappoint you all on this show. That's the best caption I've ever heard. And he did a carousel. He's warming his hands in front of the fire. He's doing a carousel. I'm like, look at this.

Starting point is 01:49:17 This is definitely an old picture cause he dyed his hair, but look at him. I love him. He's my favorite. I'm sorry, Mark. We find ourselves sometimes rooting for him over Mark and we have to catch ourselves. Are Mark and Charles friends? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He said Charles was one of the funniest guys in the mansion.

Starting point is 01:49:31 Yeah, they cook together. How many followers does Charles have these days? Like 20k? Damn! How much does he have? I can't see that. That feels low. Let's go. Let's go, America. I think they could take some time for the golden people. What are they in? like week three right now? And he's got 20k the guys on the regular bachelor. I'm a bachelor. I don't get that much by this time

Starting point is 01:49:58 It was a dumpster fire it was There's a lot of drama on that season. That's for sure From the guys, I was like, what's going on here? How's it been dancing with Jen? It's been good. I think a lot of times people think that we interact a lot more than we actually do because you go to your rehearsal and you kind of stay in your own lane, but you do show and tells throughout the week where you'll show other people your dances, you'll kind of see them in passing,

Starting point is 01:50:21 and then during blocking and actual film days, you'll be interacting a lot more. But she's doing great. She did amazing, obviously, that night that you guys were there too. She was the third highest score of the night. That was her best night yet. I mean, I think that as everyone is, we're just kind of trying to root for Jen

Starting point is 01:50:36 because she got in a very difficult situation after a season. I think dancing has been the perfect way for her to be able to get and do something that can kind of Put good focus out there right now. Yeah, is there been any update with Devin and or has he just like I haven't seen anything I think you shut the fuck up after Yeah, all the the videos When the details of his past came out.

Starting point is 01:51:06 Oh that, yeah. Yeah, he was like, you know what, maybe I'll get off social media. It's not my time to be a- When's the last time there's been a season that ended like this though? Has there ever been one like this? This bad. Well, it turned out that one of the guys was actually maybe a dangerous, horrible person as opposed to like, you know, a reality TV villain.

Starting point is 01:51:24 Yeah. I don't think so. I don't know. It's true. dangerous horrible person as opposed to like you know a reality TV villain yeah I don't think so I don't know if when you word it like that that's true yeah I don't thank God I don't think they ever had that before a couple times let me know no no like I was all the time not that I'm wishing any internet hate on anyone but when you think about like some of the hate other people have gotten a show it seems disproportionate Devin almost let off the hook. Yeah. In a way.

Starting point is 01:51:47 Yeah. Well, we're not in his DMs or comments, but. No, but do you remember, I mean, were you guys familiar with the show when Ari was the Bachelor? Yes. I was not watching it, but I remember hearing that it was a huge deal.

Starting point is 01:52:00 That was the first season I ever watched. That was fucking crazy. Yeah. You remember the hate he got. There were billboards across the country of like fuck Ari. Like literally. I didn't know that that's crazy. He was truly one of the most talked about

Starting point is 01:52:12 and hated men in America. For what? For simply like realizing that after eight weeks, he picked the wrong person and then honestly, graciously, he like, he did Becca a favor. He took one for the team. He knew he would get hated on, didn't know how much or how the show would air it.

Starting point is 01:52:30 He knew that this would catapult Becca into being the Bachelorette. It did, they fucking hated him. And now she is happily, engaged at least, they have a kid. I think they got married, like courthouse. Ari and Lauren, they're happily married. They got multiple kids. Everyone's happy.

Starting point is 01:52:47 Like the right thing happened. He got fucking eviscerated. And honestly, Bachelor Nation was Ari and Lauren a huge apology that I don't think they've quite gotten. I think it's also tough because from what I heard, like I said, it seemed like in that time, it was the worst thing ever. And it's so hard to see what's gonna happen down the road.

Starting point is 01:53:07 And I'm sure all of them are so grateful, as you said, for what happened. It's just the quick to react because it was the first time. Or did that happen? Was Jason's season first? It was right after my season. And then Jason Mesnick was the first one that did that? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:53:20 But he didn't get the hate like R did? I don't remember that. I'm pretty sure he got hate, actually. I just know that was the, I've heard so much about those two seasons because they're the only two that like changed did. I don't remember that. I'm pretty sure he got hate, actually. I just know that was the, I've heard so much about those two seasons because they're the only two that like, changed their mind. And they worked out. I mean, it ended up,

Starting point is 01:53:30 Yeah, exactly. Both those couples are still together, but yeah, they eviscerated Ari. It was bad. I did hear that. It was too much. I mean, Bachelor Nation has strong opinions. It typically is, yeah. Typically it's too much.

Starting point is 01:53:42 So what are you guys doing for fun? Like, what's the relationship been like? What's your peach in your pit of your relationship? Yeah, I feel like we were just like, where do you wanna go for dinner? What do you wanna order in? What do you wanna do? Do you guys like the same foods?

Starting point is 01:53:53 We do. You can tell them how you know my... I do know, I can look at a menu now and I can pick the two things that Kelsey will order or thinks about ordering, and I kinda wait to see what she says, but I'm at the point that I definitely know. He'll try something and be like, yeah, you'll like this.

Starting point is 01:54:07 I said that I'm not a picky eater. He thinks differently, but. I think that you know what you like and there are some foods she doesn't agree with her. So that she only has a certain bit of options, but I can tell when she's going to like something. But yeah, I'd say in our free time right now, we're not doing things that are that exciting.

Starting point is 01:54:23 I am tired. She's been staying busy a lot and doing a lot of things with other people outside when I've been busy. And then when we get together, we've just been kind of enjoying staying in, going to a nice dinner, keeping things simple. We had a really crazy three months before Dancing with the Stars.

Starting point is 01:54:39 So I think we've been really enjoying, just like not doing stuff for a little bit. Because we traveled so much when we got off our season and felt like we were pretty much living nomad lifestyles and didn't really have any type of routine. So for us just to be able to like actually get a workout in every day to be able to sit down and have a nice meal to go to bed at a decent time and not feel it sounds

Starting point is 01:55:03 so lame. We're going to bed at like 9.30 and I'm like, it feels like midnight. It sounds so lame, but I've noticed how much it is. It has made us really sink in to just enjoying each other's company more. Don't have to say much, just kind of, I don't know. We feel like a real couple. I guess is the right way to put it.

Starting point is 01:55:19 I was curious about that because, you know, last time you guys were here, it was fresh off the season. Not that anyone was doubting your guys' sincerity or relationship, it's just like it was so new and you never really know as someone who's been in your position. When I got my season ended and I went on Dancing with the Stars, we tried to put on a good face,

Starting point is 01:55:37 but we were already having some pretty serious problems. How has your relationship advanced since the season ending know, the season ending, which is again still a world when my experience I know was like for you when we had problems while I was airing it was always like well let's just wait till it's done airing because like how can this is this still isn't a real relationship because like we're trying to like build a relationship while watching the whole season unfold. Like have you guys had to adjust? Has it like since coming off, has there been kind of an actual like courting period,

Starting point is 01:56:10 getting to know period, and how has your relationship advanced since the last time we got to speak with you guys? I think the last time we spoke with you guys, we were still fresh off of just the feeling of the show in general. And I think I could speak for both of us that feels like a lifetime ago now,

Starting point is 01:56:24 because we've been able to learn more about each other. We've talked a little bit last time about communication styles and everything. I think the biggest difference for us right now is if something does fester, it just doesn't last as long because I understand what she needs to be able to have time. I understand what I need to be able

Starting point is 01:56:42 to kind of reshift the conversation. We're just not holding onto things as much as as you would usually in the beginning of a relationship because I think we just understand each other a little bit more. It is in no way perfect. We still have our fights. We still have our little bouts that come into play. But I think that we at least understand a little bit more what each person needs to get through them and not make them last as long. And as everyone knows from The Bachelor, it's so much harder to do that when it's virtual. And we at least now have every single time

Starting point is 01:57:11 the ability to be next to one another and the presence to at least work through something together. Yeah, I would say that for me, it's just like I feel more secure in the relationship. Like I always felt like Joey loved me and chose me and all these things, you know? But at the same time, it's like, I think that I just had my own like internal insecurities of just like this whole

Starting point is 01:57:30 process. And I think that I've just found like more security in it and like, and more secure in our relationship because of like, my like working through my own insecurities through it. But yeah, I feel like we just feel more normal also being able to meet like his aunts and uncles and like him being able to meet like my whole family and friends that I think that that also like makes you feel a lot closer to a person to see like where they come from, who they surround themselves with. So that was really nice.

Starting point is 01:57:53 What is something, question for both of you that you've had to learn to love about the other person? You know, cause it's like relationships don't really start until you start seeing and accepting the other person's flaws. And it can be slightly annoying, but you're like, I love you anyways. I've said this from the beginning

Starting point is 01:58:11 because I have to remind myself why I chose Kelsey in a lot of ways too. I love her emotions. I love the fact that I know exactly what she's feeling 100% of the time. But yes, there are times when you know exactly what she's feeling. It's like, man, I wish you could just be a little cooler

Starting point is 01:58:26 about this one, but I love it because when she's 100% happy, it makes me even happier. I love when she is not happy with me because I don't have to question, she wears it on her face, I know exactly. I'm fine. I'm fine. It's like, yeah. No, she does, I'm fine.

Starting point is 01:58:42 I mean, I'll do that, but what's wrong? Nothing. Yeah, you're not fine. Sometimes when I say I'm fine, it's more like I just need a second. You know, it's like just give me a second and then we can talk about it. Because sometimes I feel like I don't even really know what I'm upset about. And so I'm like, give me a second to figure it out in my brain. I would say I've had to learn to understand that that doesn't always mean it's a positive,

Starting point is 01:59:01 but I do love that about her. I really do. Yeah. I don't know. I'm like, maybe. You're gonna say something stupid and I can't really hear it. No, I don't know. What was it last time? Like your toes or something?

Starting point is 01:59:14 Not my bunions. Oh, the bunions. I don't know, she caught out the bunions. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like whenever he eats, sometimes whenever we're out. Not the spaghetti. Do you have bad table manners, Joey?

Starting point is 01:59:24 No, I have great table manners. Just whenever he's eating spaghetti, he leans over really bad. I just literally can't look at him. I just have to look at him. It gives the ick. I feel like if I eat spaghetti and I try to actually eat it this high, 90% of the time it splatters all over my shirt. So I get down there and every time I do it she thinks I look like a dog and as you said the best way to describe it gives her the ick. I'm like actually don't order pasta in front of her anymore because it bothers her. You should do yourd it last time around.

Starting point is 01:59:56 We go to dinner last night and this one who's always got the best pasta in the world has stuff on her at all times. Bro change your noodle. I know. Change your noodle. Bo-tie. I'm gonna start bringing like- Change your noodle. Change your noodle. Bow tie. I'm gonna start bringing scissors. Bow tie is one of the most underrated noodles out there.

Starting point is 02:00:11 Bow tie is real good. I love any type of pasta, and I would choose something over spaghetti, but you know how restaurants are nowadays, you can't change the menu. No, but that's just it. You can't tell them to do something different. Do you ask?

Starting point is 02:00:24 I don't like being that guy. Should I ask? Should I ask and say, hey, can you? Being judged for changing the chef's way of making a dish. I'm always like, Liv, if it's not too inconvenient, honestly tell me to fuck off. And if you're gonna spit in it, I'll just take the regular noodle.

Starting point is 02:00:38 But if it offends no one, could I make a substitution? It's not that bad. I'm not like, oh my, you gotta sleep somewhere else tonight after he eats pasta. No, you get over it.? It's not that bad. I'm not like oh my you gotta sleep somewhere else tonight I'll talk to him and I'm just like oh, yeah, you know like he'll be over here. I'm like oh anyways like Cereal cereal you love cereal. I do love cereal. No, I think I'm good. Again, I think the only reason why I do that is because I know I would get it all over my shirt if I eat like- It makes sense to me.

Starting point is 02:01:11 That's the only reason why. No, I'd rather that than you be like a slop, like I had it all over your shirt. Like you when you have stuff all over your shirt? Oh, oh, oh! I'm sorry! I didn't know we were back on me. Moving on. I thought you already had your-

Starting point is 02:01:21 No, when Nick eats cereal, there's like milk all down the chin. It's like, it's a whole. No, Kelsey bats a hundred on getting something on her dress every single time we go out to dinner. I would, Kelsey, I would not say that. Question now, without maybe going through the list, off the top of your head, how many X have I? Without going through the list?

Starting point is 02:01:42 Off the top of my head. Like recently, or like in our relationship. Without going to the list? Off the top of my head. Uh, like recently? Or like in our relationship? Like today? Like since we woke up or what is like the timeline we're working with here? Let me, I can look through the notes. You have a notes for X. No, no, no.

Starting point is 02:01:56 Um, I honestly like less than 10. Less than 10? 20. Kelsey? 30. 30? I would say maybe just- Just the pasta.

Starting point is 02:02:04 Maybe just the pasta right now. Maybe there's another, I just can't think of it. 30? I would say maybe just- Just the pasta. Maybe just the pasta right now. Maybe there's another, I just can't think of it. I think that the pasta is like- So less than three? Yeah, I would say currently. We got a long way to go. I feel like that list is gonna build in due time.

Starting point is 02:02:16 Yeah. Yeah. Nick sent me a video of him roller skating the other day. And it was- She just rose pied, ick. Because I actually feel like I need to show you, I need to see if you would be like, oh yeah, you know, like I could definitely do without.

Starting point is 02:02:34 I wasn't like flexing. I was letting my wife know that I was having fun roller skating. I love roller skating by the way. Wait, what do you mean? I like, I, when I was a kid, I did- You did four wheel? Yeah. Oh my God. I love roller skating by the way wait. What do you mean? I like I when I was a kid I did four wheel yeah, I did I'm telling you you want to go to moonlight roll. I am so down. Do you have your own skates?

Starting point is 02:02:57 I don't but once a kid. I was obsessed with you know that you know the now. They won't go with me What's the what's the movie? What's the movie? Brink. I'm not familiar. So Team Puppensides and Team X-Blade from Disney. It's a roller skating movie where they all become trick bladers. They go on like... And not roller blades.

Starting point is 02:03:15 No, they're doing obviously trick skating, but I used to go to the skate park and try to do 360s on the half pipe and I was obsessed with that. And then I did go to actually, actually, like you said, the four wheel, I've done that before, but I've more enjoyed like, actually just going on roller skates and going to like a skate park and doing that.

Starting point is 02:03:32 It's fun. I would love to go roller skating with you. I'll do it. Please watch this video. Yeah. That's it. I feel like he's not even in it. I feel like if I saw Joey fall on roller.

Starting point is 02:03:47 Oh yeah. Any like clumsiness. Yeah. That's it. You should go. That'd be a lot of fun. Tricking is also, I like can't watch a trip. That one's hard for me.

Starting point is 02:03:57 That's what I learned about what an ick is other than maybe the spaghetti. It's that you just, you can't look clumsy. Yeah. Well, I think that the spaghetti, he almost does look clumsy because it's like. Or you know, that's what it is. Oh, it's that you just, you can't look clumsy. Yeah. Well, I think that the spaghetti, he almost does look clumsy, cause it's like. Or, you know, that's what it is. Oh, he's still talking about it. If I were to simplify, if I were to simplify X,

Starting point is 02:04:11 is that like, you can't look like you're trying. Yeah. To do anything. Things can't look hard for men. That's fair. Like even like the spaghetti. It's like you leaning down, trying to like. Looks like I'm really trying.

Starting point is 02:04:22 Yeah. If he like picked me up and was like, oh, I would be like, oh. Oh oh yeah like that whole trend that's like flipping yeah yeah we're not gonna try if I've seen the people who like quick they're like it's quick with and if mine was like and then the land I don't know if we could if I can move on yeah that would be hard that's a good way to put it though I the one I always laugh about was someone fumbling trying to pick up a ping pong ball playing pong. Oh yeah.

Starting point is 02:04:49 That's one of the big ones. Like trying to like, oh chasing after it. And they chase it after the ball. That's bad. That's exactly what you're talking about. You can't put any effort into anything. Otherwise it's an ick. You have to look cool at all times.

Starting point is 02:04:59 Like chasing after a napkin or something. Yeah, those are all bad. You're in the wind and you have to go chasing down the beach and you're running after it. Yeah, ick. Good. The ladies want us to be good at everything without trying at all. And everything has to come effortlessly. That's why we only do things that we're good at. Good thing dancing wasn't an ick. That could have been a huge one.

Starting point is 02:05:18 Could have been, but it wasn't. Yeah, imagine you trying really hard and being bad. Yeah. Like behind every... Let's hope that never happens. You can be bad and not look like you're trying. You can be like, oh, I really hard and being bad. Yeah. Like a behind it. Let's hope that never happens. You can be bad and not look like you're trying. You can be like, I don't give a shit. And you're like, oh my God, that's so cool.

Starting point is 02:05:30 Kelsey, you recently made some headlines with your, apparently with your take. Were people just DMing you being like, what like? Yeah, people were like DMing me. People were like commenting on like so much stuff being like, oh, like why are they touching each other like that or whatever? And I'm just like, they have to touch each other to dance. I don't know if we have different understandings of dance, but it was that.

Starting point is 02:05:53 And then some people were, after I made that video, they were like, people were obviously joking. I'm like, I don't care if it was a joke. Like I don't even think that's funny. Yeah. You know, no, they weren't. They were trying to be fucks. They were like, they're not joking if they're DMing you. Oh, I'm joking weren't exactly fucks. No. Yeah, they're not joking if they're damn. I'm joking Kelsey so strong Yeah under videos of like him and Jenna Okay Okay

Starting point is 02:06:13 That's it. That's it. I got a DM I posted a mirror picture of the other day just like a little like outfit whatever wasn't that big of a deal the outfit also Like wasn't anything you know innovative and I got a DM from this girl who said she followed me. And she said, for the love of God, stop posting in shit outfits in front of this photo. And I was like, just please unfollow me. Literally. That's what I always say.

Starting point is 02:06:38 This is my content. I'm like, actually, why do you follow me? No, things like you hate what I post. You can block me and you will never see anything I post. You will never see these shit outfits. You will never see these shit outfits. You'll never see this picture of Muhammad Ali. Like I'm so sorry. Did she respond?

Starting point is 02:06:50 No, I do believe she did un-follow me. Un-follow, yeah. Really? I was gonna say, majority of the time, there are things I think of as like hate follows. Like people do that on purpose. They follow people that irk them or do things. And then that's part of their fun is just DMing

Starting point is 02:07:06 and saying stuff. There's the only reason why those people would follow you is because they want to stir it up. That's what they enjoy and I it's surprising because that's a wild way to spend your free time but people do it. My favorites are just like whenever they get straight to the point. Like I got one that was just like I hate you and I was like thank you. Like can we

Starting point is 02:07:22 that was like easy to read. We get it. You didn't have to like do a whole paragraph., can we, that was our, like. That was fast, it was easy to read. And everyone was like, we get it. You didn't have to like do a whole paragraph. This took like minimal time for both of us. You didn't have to explain. I didn't have to read a lot, you know. Straight to the point. Did you ask why?

Starting point is 02:07:33 No, I just like, okay, cool. Okay, I like it. Thank you. It was new. But, yeah. You don't seem like you're easy to hate. I don't know, I know. I was like, this is new.

Starting point is 02:07:43 You've also recently, I feel like, and this is something I definitely struggle with, is showing my personality on social media. But you have been really good at doing this. Thank you. With these recent videos of like, decorating the trailer. Yeah. And what was the other one? Oh, packing his lunch.

Starting point is 02:07:57 Like, you're doing really good. Thank you. Doing the Lord's work. I feel like people didn't really get to see that much of my personality on The Bachelor. Like, I did show it, but it just, I feel like they wanted to show the more like hurt wrenching parts like me talking about my mom and things like that. I get the Kenoli show so much so I was like well I guess I can use this to show people you know, but I'm a little silly, you know. She's got a personality.

Starting point is 02:08:18 How do I ask this question that you can answer? Because I don't know if Mark's journey ends with Joan. Yeah, I don't know either. I'm nervous. Okay. He almost believed that. He was like, what? Wow. Let's assume he doesn't because his odds are that like as great as Mark is and as great as Joan is that maybe it is not each other's person. Would you support your dad being the next Golden Bachelor? I think that if he really wanted to do that, I would.

Starting point is 02:08:51 But yeah, I mean, I think that it is a lot of like responsibility and a lot of stress. I know Joey like didn't have like the easiest time, but I do know that Golden's different. So if he wanted to do it, I would definitely support him. They seem like they're torturing the golden contestants less than they torturing us. I think they just embrace the wholesome side to it. I'm always so curious on it too because I think about it as what she was just saying.

Starting point is 02:09:16 There's so many levels of the show that you get filmed, but then they choose what they want to show. A lot of times they'll focus on the drama. I know people love it because it's always was talked about online But I'm so curious what would happen if they did for one of the seasons all of our age group And they actually just tried to find the best parts and people really opening up. It'd be boring Oh, you think it would be boring. Well the part of it is it's the charm of like the Charles and your dad You know having life experiences and saying actually profound and interesting shit that like I and the rest of us want to listen to

Starting point is 02:09:51 because it's like they have earned our attention based off of everything they've gone through. Like I'm honestly not interested in hearing from a 27 year old influencer. I'm honestly kind of quite tired of hearing about all their fucking struggles. But it's like they like, like the producers they're like, oh you only have this time, you have to tell them everything that's like ever happened to you.

Starting point is 02:10:12 And sometimes it's like, I don't know. I mean, I took my time telling you. I think my like one on one was later on whenever I told you about my mom. But it's like, sometimes I'm like, was this, you know. The best time too. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:10:24 What's your dad's type? Honestly, I'm not, was this, you know? The best time too. Yeah. What's your dad's type? Honestly, I'm not 100% sure. My mom was Hispanic, five seven. How tall is your mom? My mom? 62. How tall?

Starting point is 02:10:35 Oh, five seven. Oh, that's crazy. That's crazy. I feel like every time, I feel like, I mean, you're poor dad, poor you. Like everyone is like, wait, my mom, my mom, my mom. I have gotten emails, my dad started getting certified mail sent to him from women.

Starting point is 02:10:49 Well, Lisa's not creepy, she's actually a classy lady. Oh, he said at least that's not creepy, the certified mail, I was like, I don't know about that. Well, it's a little creepy. I was like, I would say. No, I really do want my mom to go on the next season of Golden Bachelor, whether it's your dad or, honestly, I love all of the men on there.

Starting point is 02:11:04 It's really about making friends, let's be real. 100%. of Golden Bachelor, whether it's your dad or, honestly, I love all of the men on there. I feel like any of them. It's really about making friends, let's be real. Yeah, 100%. Who knows whether they would be compatible or whatever. Yeah, my dad definitely made a lot of friends. And I think that one of the things that he was most thankful for, he was like, I don't think that I could have got this experience

Starting point is 02:11:18 if I didn't come, you know, obviously that, but. That's what she said. No, he was like, I don't think that I would have like he was saying that the experience was like therapy for him And he doesn't think that he could have went to therapy and got the same The other part of golden too because I always am trying to compare the two of why it feels so different They're really good at staying present in the whole experience and actually loving every second of it I think that's what people are also watching in real time is they're finally, yeah, they're finally putting themselves first for the first time in a while

Starting point is 02:11:48 and there's just something so gravitating to that when you're watching it. You can just tell these guys are having the time of their lives and I think people do that on the show we were on, but at the same time, I don't think they understand how rare of an experience it is until they get out of it. I think part of getting older in our society

Starting point is 02:12:04 tells us that as we get older, we should take less risks or we should kind of settle in to whatever our life is. And I think going on The Bachelor is truly a unique and incredible experience. And there's so many experiences within that experience that you get a collection of older people who, for the most part, a lot of their lives have been fairly routine, you know? A lot of the same circle of influences and things like that. And so many new things are brought to them.

Starting point is 02:12:36 Again, for a lot of them, it probably feels like for the first time since they went to like summer camp or college or things where you get together and just meet. It's like a melting pot of different personalities and people and people you would never have met or been friends with. You get this opportunity and it's that's you don't get that often in life. So it's very cool to see, see them all get that.

Starting point is 02:12:58 It's been fun to watch. I really liked the season so far. We still have to finish this last episode. We haven't got a chance to finish it just quite yet. But yeah, I'm excited to see how the keeps goes. All right, well, I think we gotta let you go. Are you gonna win, Tansy? I hope. Yes.

Starting point is 02:13:13 She's gonna be my number one supporter. I told you- How can people vote for you? You can vote every week during the airing hours of the show and you text Joey to 21523. You can do it 10 times and please do it all 10 times. What is it again? 21523. Text Joey.

Starting point is 02:13:29 Text Joey, J-O-E-Y. I feel like they could have made an easier number. Right? I don't know. Do you remember the taxi number that's like 222222222222? Like that's an easy taxi call. And you're on tonight, right?

Starting point is 02:13:40 So people should be voting tonight. Do it tonight. It's gonna be hair metal night tonight and it's gonna be a good one. So vote tonight. How do you feel good about this dance? I do, it's a little different tonight It's gonna be hair metal night tonight, and it's gonna be a good one so vote tonight about this dance. I do it's a little different It's gonna be a fun one. What's the dance you'll be doing. It's gonna be the tango Do you have like any like move you could show us part of your routine? Yeah, I could do the whole routine for you right now No Kelsey's gonna be my partner so you guys get to see her dancing

Starting point is 02:14:05 No, it's a fun one. It's a hair melon night. It's got some, there's some hits this night. I think people are gonna really enjoy it. You wearing makeup? I'm wearing a mullet. Nice. Ooh.

Starting point is 02:14:14 You did have to shave your face. Yeah. I did. And it's still growing in as we speak. I feel like a baby. Yeah, whenever he shaved I was like, oh. I was like, who is this man? This young man.

Starting point is 02:14:22 Do we like short hair Joey? Do we like long hair Joey? I like, I like curls. I like, I like curls. I like, I like curls. I like, I like curls. I like, oh, I was like, who is this man? This young man? Do we like short hair, Joey? Do we like long hair, Joey? I like curls. I think there's going to be an in-between. Yeah, we're going to keep it. Why are we combing?

Starting point is 02:14:32 I think right now it's short enough that it would be like more. Your hair this length still will curl this much? Mine kind of gets a little... It curls less, but I give it some, you know, I just... Juj. I juj. I don't comb. We're going to get to your length here soon. And it's going to be... I'm going for the short know, I just give it some. Juj. Juj. Yeah, I don't comb. We're gonna get to your length here soon

Starting point is 02:14:46 and it's gonna be, I'm going for the short on the sides long on the top and we'll have some curves. It really changed my life. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Yeah. Kelsey still wants it all long everywhere, but. I want it to just be, he had this like really cute pick

Starting point is 02:14:59 of him at a wedding, was it your sister's wedding? Yeah, yeah. And it's like all like a little, he looks like a prince. It was my Oompa Loompa hair. It was it was my Oompa Loompa hair No, it was not Keep the sides tight. Yeah, I know I'm gonna keep the sides tight cuz it just makes your face pretty Not was that was Nick the first person to ever say that about you? I don't know. I almost don't want to say this because just gives him more ammo

Starting point is 02:15:23 the one I got compared to a lot when I was younger was you ever seen the Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer? You know, the Herbie, I think, is his name, the dentist that has like the swoop. That's the one I got when I had it to perfectly come to the side. I got I got her. Did I hurt your feelings when I said that? You know, just a little bit. He just I didn't like, you know, cuddle him a couple of times. Just a little bit. I did like cuddle him a couple times and I was just crying to sleep.

Starting point is 02:15:46 I was like what? Who's this big vile guy that keeps talking shit about me? What is happening? Everyone's saying such nice things on this season and this guy just is tearing me down. I said a lot of nice things but no one passes. I did give you benefit. I was like Joey if you actually listen to it I was like he's saying a lot of nice things about you. Who's the real Joey? I was like Joey, if you actually listen to it, I was like, he's saying a lot of nice things about you. I actually would always say. Who's the real Joey? Who, what is going on with this? I say one bad thing.

Starting point is 02:16:08 Everyone DMs you and be like, you believe what Nick said about you? You're like, what? I honestly just got sent so many things at that time, but then I told you immediately, I said, I feel like it's easier once you get to know me. And as soon as we sat down and had a conversation, I had zero doubts that it was just all your say.

Starting point is 02:16:24 And you have great hair. And I just want to see your, you, you. You want to see its full potential. I do. I mean, it's such a waste if you don't. Honestly, you know. As long as I cut my hair, we can figure this out. No, no, no, no. Kelsey, how often do you wear your natural hair?

Starting point is 02:16:36 Honestly, I've been wearing it like more styled recently just because it's easier to maintain, but I try and wear it as much as I can. It's just that it only looks good for about two days, and I only wash my hair once a week. And you can't brush it. Yeah, you can't brush it. You can't brush it.

Starting point is 02:16:50 It might look good the second day. It's kind of like a toss-up. I like when you have your hair crazy. Yeah, but then it's like you kind of start to form dreads a little bit, and you're like, I need to brush this out, but I can't brush this because it'll be... My favorite nightly hair is air-dried.

Starting point is 02:17:02 Yeah, no, I like when she doesn't do much, and it just... Your hair's wavy, right? Yeah, it's kinda like yours. Yeah. No, I like when she doesn't do much and it just, yeah. Yours is wavy, right? Yeah, it's kinda like yours. When I'm on the beach, you can tell. Yeah, whenever I go to the beach, I definitely wear it natural. During the season, I told her once that I liked her hair up and she wore it up

Starting point is 02:17:12 the rest of the season. I kept wearing it up. Nick did that to me. He was like, I love when you slick back your hair and I was like, perfect. And I did it all the time. And then he was like, are you ever gonna wear your hair down? And I was like, why?

Starting point is 02:17:21 No. I thought you hated it down. I did think you thought I was an ugly beast. No, I thought you said that this was my prettiest true form. You gotta be careful what you say. I think it was the opposite. I think you said you like my hair down. And then I was like, oh, I wanted to wear my hair up for this.

Starting point is 02:17:33 And then you're like, oh, I like, it was one of the two. I said something. I'm not so pretty sure I was the, I was early on Kelsey. Yeah, you were. I was like, I think I won. I was like, he's gonna pick Kelsey. No, trust me. because everyone else was saying, obviously all the other people, she's like, Nick got it.

Starting point is 02:17:49 Nick, you're right. I was like, that's my guy. Yeah. And for the record, I said my front runner's Chalk. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Which I still feel pretty good about. Interesting.

Starting point is 02:17:59 Well, I mean, only what I've, we haven't seen a ton of them. Yeah, yeah, true. But sometimes they hide them. I honestly don't see it. Sometimes they hide them. They do hide them sometimes. I think Mark will go far. But I don't know, you know.

Starting point is 02:18:09 Yeah, we'll see. Time will tell. All right guys, well, it's always great to see you. Thanks for having us. We'll see you Sunday probably, maybe. Hopefully. We'll see you Sunday. You'll have to next time come over for the Packer Game, Kelsey, Joey came on Sunday.

Starting point is 02:18:23 Bad luck though. It was bad luck, they lost. Yeah, well let. Bad luck though. It was bad luck they lost. Yeah, well let's fill it out. Maybe you can't come back. Let's see, let's see. And then we'll double it. Yeah, he did hold River. I did with her on there.

Starting point is 02:18:31 I know. It was very cute. I know, that made me sad that I wasn't there to hold her. Well, we can do it again. Yes, there we go. Perfect. Bye. Bye.

Starting point is 02:18:37 Gotta go. Papa Murphy's has a great deal on Summer Selects. Large thin crust pizzas for only 10.99 each. So instead of stressing over what to feed everyone, you can keep those chill summertime vibes no matter what pops up. Whether it's a fun pool party, a low key game night, or an impromptu sleepover. You can keep it easy, breezy, and budget-friendly with Papa Murphy's Summer Selects. Large, thin-crust pizzas for only $10.99. Papa Murphy's, change the way you pizza. Monica, welcome to the show.

Starting point is 02:19:10 Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me. Excited to have you. So how has it been so far? I mean, the show's been out for a few days now. I'm sure it's been a bit of a whirlwind. What's been kind of the craziest moment

Starting point is 02:19:24 since the episodes have dropped for you? It's been a bit of a whirlwind. What's been kind of the craziest moment since the episodes have dropped for you? It's been crazy. My phone is on like to say it's overstimulated would be an understatement I've heard from so many people just reaching out to you know, send their real wishes and yesterday My girlfriend's hosted a small my best friends hosted a small watch party for me and they flew in from California and Chicago and New York and it was just so special to watch with them. It's really cool friends hosted a small watch party for me and they flew in from California and Chicago and New York and it was just so special to watch with them. It was really cool. I'm always fascinated for how people end up on this show just because it's so unique. How did you end up on? Were you familiar with Love is Blind? What was your reasoning for doing this crazy thing? Yeah, I love the show. I've seen every season.

Starting point is 02:20:05 Certainly never thought I'd be on it, but always was very in love with the concept of it as someone who very much values like deep connection and talking to people. And, you know, I just always thought it was great. And so I watch, I was watching season four and Tiffany and Brett, if you remember them from season four, I remember watching and crying when they got married

Starting point is 02:20:28 and looking at this woman who was at the same age as me, 36 at around that time. And like the same day someone sent me a link to say, oh my gosh, Love is Blind is coming to DC. And I was like, I'm just gonna apply. And I did it from my phone, filled out the application on a flight and never thought I'd get a call back,

Starting point is 02:20:46 but they reached out, it was pretty surreal. That's crazy. And then once they reached out, were you like, I'm absolutely gonna say yes to this if they asked me to do it, or were you still kind of on the fence? Like how did you kind of go through that decision-making process

Starting point is 02:20:59 once you realized you had the opportunity? I don't really, it's hard to describe, but I went through every step of that six month casting process, never actually thinking it was going to happen. Like I would say like, Oh, like I'll, I'll do that next thing you need from me being like, even when I was on the flight headed to LA, I was like, this, I'm, they're going, there's a mistake. So I just, one day was standing in the pods and I was like, wow, I'm really here. Um, I always knew I'd do it, but I just never really could believe it was happening.

Starting point is 02:21:25 I still can't believe it, if that makes sense. Yeah, I mean, no, it does. What was your approach going in, in terms of, did you have like a plan, in terms of how you thought you might, you know, what questions you wanted to ask? How, like for me, again, I'm just fascinated, like, and you've kind of talked about how, you know,, you've dated in the past, maybe you were looking for the wrong thing. Looks have always mattered to me. I've always recognized that looks aren't the only thing, but it's certainly something that,

Starting point is 02:21:56 it's one of the first things you notice type of thing. Were you truly committed to not caring or not asking questions? Did you find yourself asking questions that might give you a little bit of information about their appearance or were you totally just not at all thinking about that? I was truly committed to not thinking about it

Starting point is 02:22:16 or talking about it. If a guy on a date like tried to go there, I would say, I really don't want to know. I was more concerned as to whether or not I would actually be able to build an emotional connection with someone. I was more concerned as to whether or not I would actually be able to build an emotional connection with someone. I thought it was probably unlikely, like what are the odds that it would actually happen for me? But I didn't, I wanted to do it genuinely and not talk about love. Now, obviously, as a woman of color, I did know going in that

Starting point is 02:22:38 I wanted to at some point just talk about my race because I'm so proud of it. And I wanted someone who was, you know, to know what they thought about race in the world and people who, of all different cultures and communities. So I knew that part would come out, but other than that, nothing about looks. Gotcha. Were there any odd questions that you received from some of the men that you were talking to

Starting point is 02:22:56 where you felt like they're trying to figure out what I look like? Hmm. Like the classic from many seasons ago where someone asked like, can you sit on my shoulder? Yeah, someone asked like, can I pick you up? Could you sit on my shoulder? Yeah, something like that.

Starting point is 02:23:07 Can I wear you on my shoulders? Yeah, can I wear you on my shoulders? I don't honestly, Ned, I don't think so. Not that I recall. I don't think anyone asks like, do you look like a celebrity or anything like that now? Gotcha. What has been the biggest surprise for you?

Starting point is 02:23:21 Cause you know, there's a lot that you don't get to learn. A lot of the interactions of your peers, you know, I'm sure you maybe heard about it, but seeing it is a totally different experience. What has surprised you the most about some of the other couples that you've you've seen interact? You know a couple things. So I would say the biggest thing that has rocked my emotions and made tears like flow out of my eyes like you wouldn't believe is hearing Tim and Alex's dates and Tim, who's you know, obviously someone that I even dated in the pods, you date all the guys at the

Starting point is 02:23:51 beginning. So I'd heard parts of his story, but not in that way. And him opening up to Alex, like watching that conversation just, oh, that was, that was a lot. And so beautiful and special. And then also secondly, Hannah, like she, I am the oldest person on the cast, not by much, but I was the oldest woman there. Hannah was the youngest woman. So just watching how maturely she's handled herself in dates, I don't know if I was that well-spoken

Starting point is 02:24:18 and in control of my emotions when I was in my mid-20s as I've found her to be. So that's been pretty cool to see. What is your read on Leo? Damn, Leo. Like, Leo is, I've been sad by some of the things I've seen from Leo. He's not someone that I know well.

Starting point is 02:24:35 Sure, but what, yeah, what has surprised you the most? Or what did you find to, yeah, what's your read? You seem like a very intelligent person. You seem like you read people fairly well. Yeah, what, just as a fan, you've watched all these seasons. If you're watching it as a fan, how would you break down Leo's behavior? It's been really hard to watch and disappointing to see some of the gaslighting that took place.

Starting point is 02:24:58 And I think it was him and Hannah's last date. I really didn't like that where he's like, he's really, I mean, completely gaslighting her of like, oh yeah, no, I didn't want to pick you either. I really didn't like that where he's like, he's really, I mean, completely gaslighting her. I'm like, oh yeah, no, I didn't wanna pick you either. I'm picking Brittany and you should be with Nick. And I'm like, wait, what? And I was with Hannah through a lot of those conversations and her being torn through the Nick and Leo thing.

Starting point is 02:25:19 And so watching that back was pretty wild to see. For me, it was hard to see their first interaction. You know, when Hannah went in thinking she was in a breakup with Leo, and then this was following what we saw, a conversation between Leo and Brittany, and he's like asking her about engagement rings and things like that.

Starting point is 02:25:38 And it's one thing, like listen, it'd be one thing if you're just like, hey, if we get to the point, what engagement ring would you like? Even that would be a little bit premature to even bring that up if you're just like, hey, if we get to the point, what engagement ring would you like? Even that would be a little bit premature to even bring that up if you're not sure about who you're gonna pick. But the way he went about it and made it seem like,

Starting point is 02:25:53 oh, I'm gonna get you something, I'm gonna do this. Then he goes into the conversation with Hannah, finds out that Hannah's probably breaking up with him. And you could tell just how uncomfortable Hannah felt where he just, he made it so hard for her just to be honest with him. That like she put him in such a, he put her in such a vulnerable position

Starting point is 02:26:15 where like she, he made her feel like the bad person just for like trying to articulate a feeling. And then like you said, after he finds out that he's committed to it, he just completely dismisses and downplays everything he said. It was just wild. My read on Leo, I'm curious, because you got to meet him, you know him as a person.

Starting point is 02:26:33 I know not a lot, but certainly more than us. It's just like he's so used to getting his way, I think as like a rich kid, that it just reads very emotionally immature, where it's just like in the moment, he's only thinking about how he feels and how it's affecting him. Where I don't see it as malicious

Starting point is 02:26:52 or like where he's, you know, trying to manipulate. It just seems reactive and self-centered. Yeah, so I feel like with him, he's actually someone that I don't know well at all. I think Lea and I maybe dated, we didn't date long in the pod. Like I really don't know well at all. I think Leigh-Anne and I maybe dated, we didn't date long in the pause, like I really don't know him. I've never met him in person, but from what I'm seeing, it's, and what I heard actually living through the experience and being with the women

Starting point is 02:27:16 who were dating him, is I always just kind of thought like maybe he's a little out of his league here a little bit in terms of like dating multiple women and knowing how to like, man, like maybe he's a little out of his league here a little bit in terms of like dating multiple women and knowing how to like, maybe he's never done that before. Not that you date women through a wall ever before in your life, but just the managing of having emotional connections with multiple people really into dating. It was like maybe a lack of experience there.

Starting point is 02:27:38 Yeah, I mean, it's like, I think we watch these shows and it's easy to have these very strong reactions. But what I find fascinating about, and maybe it's just like, I think what I love about the show is under stressful emotional situations, we don't always act the way we should, you know, it's very easy to center our feelings and our emotions and then put them above everyone else.

Starting point is 02:28:00 And I think that's Leo's a perfect example of that of I don't think it's malicious I don't think he's a bad guy. I think and maybe he he wants to think he means well, but when push comes to shove Leo prioritizes his feelings above anyone else's in the moment. Certainly what I'm seeing like could not agree with you more there Steven it's funny when so we're up to episode 6 We've watched it as someone who talks for a living and talks a lot when I get going, there was that moment where you were like, I love you, but like, shut the fuck up.

Starting point is 02:28:35 You gotta leave space for me. And you know, listen, it's funny, because like, you said that, and I almost felt called out in a sense, because I'm sure there's been plenty of moments in my life where you get excited, you can tell that Steven's a very kind of thoughtful person. He wants to get stuff out. But yeah, it's really interesting how relationships like that, you know, present themselves. But like, my

Starting point is 02:28:58 question to you is, was that similar to the pods or like why? Because you're all you're doing is talking in the pods. Was that something, was that a behavior you noticed in Stephen in the pods or was that something new that revealed itself once you met face to face? I'm so glad you asked me that and that I'm getting a chance to answer it. It was something that had come up multiple times before.

Starting point is 02:29:20 Okay. I said earlier, I love chatting. I love a chatty man. It's one of the things I loved most about Steven. He's a, you know, he's a chatter. Love it. Um, there became a point when we were dating in the pods where I was developing really strong feelings for him and I could see the relationship progressing.

Starting point is 02:29:41 And, but I was really struggling to find my voice. Like there were times where. progressing and but I was really struggling to find my voice like there were times where even just like it would be like I would love to you know and so I thought to myself I remember reflecting in the lounge and thinking like gosh I really really really like him but like I think I really need to address this with him if we're gonna go the distance because I'm having a hard time like finding my footing in terms of responding or like sharing my perspective. And so I remember the first time I brought it up in the pods, it was really hard for me because I didn't want to come

Starting point is 02:30:13 off as rude. But I was like, listen, we really got to talk through this. Like I could see us going the distance. But do you know that you talk a lot like a lot. And so it kind of continued to come up. And that night, what you see when we're in Mexico, listen, I said what I said and I've met what I said. I don't love my delivery. That was like, it was after like several drinks that night at the party. I was kind of, you know, buzzed and feeling myself, but I totally stand by what I said.

Starting point is 02:30:40 I didn't look the nicest in terms of how I said it. I liked your delivery. I don't know. Sometimes you just have to say how you feel. And when I'm glad I asked that question and thanks for answering, because it felt like it wasn't the first time you asked him. I'm glad you picked up on that.

Starting point is 02:30:54 And that energy kind of gave like, come on, man, you know? But also just the way, I actually liked the way you articulated it. Like you need to leave space for me, in a sense of like, you know, that kind of energy of like sharing the room, sharing the, sharing the moment, sharing the space. It's just like, you know, and when, and I can relate to Steven, you get going, you start talking,

Starting point is 02:31:13 you, you almost, you look, you answer. I could, I could picture Steven asking a question and then answering it for the person. Has he ever done that to you? 1000%. Yeah, totally. I imagine that you would, well, holy shit. Well, how are you just like waiting for a gimme dance? I could see my face in that conversation too that we're having in Mexico.

Starting point is 02:31:34 And I can see myself just being like, and I remember thinking at that times of like, am I gonna have to stop him and say like, do you know it's now been like 17 minutes without me being able to jump in, so. What prompted what I call like the man pageant. It felt like at that cocktail party, you guys got sauced up and then you got, it was like all the ladies and then you're bringing all the guys in one by one to like

Starting point is 02:31:56 interview them. Like how did that get prompted and who performed, who won the pageant? That was such a fun moment. Like we were drinks in, taking shots. That party is wild to live through because seeing all the guys for the first time that you've dated and seeing the couples together, like it's hard to even describe how crazy it all feels. Like, wow, that's Tyler, that's Tim.

Starting point is 02:32:22 So we were having a ton of fun. And I think the conversation started because one of the guys came over. And it was either Ashley or Alex who constantly Mexico had their electric fan with them that had a has a flashlight on it. And so they were sitting there and all of a sudden, I think she goes to turn on the fan and the light comes on and it looks like they're under light and they just said, like, let's just start grilling these guys and asking

Starting point is 02:32:43 questions. So that was really funny. In terms of who performed the pageant the best, I might be a little biased, but I'm gonna say Steven. I couldn't, what he was saying, I was like, I don't know, I just thought it was so sweet. It was cute. To hear him say that in front of my friends, I thought it was really, really sweet.

Starting point is 02:32:56 Whose voice surprised you the most once you, like, whose voice didn't match their face as much as you thought it would? Because it seemed like Garrett looked, sounded like Garrett would look. Well, and you had a funny bit with about Nick and you're like, he's a lot smaller than I thought. Cute, like anyway.

Starting point is 02:33:14 Yeah, I'm curious, thank you for bringing that up, Sierra. Especially with talking to Hannah. I thought, just to give Nick the benefit of the doubt, I thought to myself, did Nick really actually imply or actually say that he's a certain height or did he actually just say, hey, listen, I was a kicker slash punter and Hannah just decided to hear or assume

Starting point is 02:33:35 that just because this guy talks with, you know, a lot of bravado and is certainly confident that she just assume he must be a certain height because she's only dated a certain height and a certain type of confidence and she's never really given the Short Kings a chance. And I'm curious as someone who met Nick in the pods and talked to other women,

Starting point is 02:33:53 like do you think it was more Nick misleading how he is or just you all kind of assuming that he looked a certain way? Okay, so I don't even know how to describe how Nick D sounded in the pods. Like this man is, I was like, found myself, fanning myself at times. And again, Nick is someone who is much younger than me.

Starting point is 02:34:14 Right, so I didn't really fit, but I kept showing up for a couple of dates with him. Cause I'm like, this could be, some guys I told my age and they were like, yeah, like I can't, you know, I couldn't see this working. Like, yeah, best of luck to you. Nick was like, my grandparents are 10 years age difference. Like can't, you know, I couldn't see this working. Like, yeah, best of luck to you. Nick was like, my grandparents are 10 years age difference. Like it's, you know, it's cool. Like he was just so confident in his voice.

Starting point is 02:34:33 So seeing him in person, I was like, whoa, he's he looks like his age. Like he just looks like he's a guy who's about 10 years younger than me. I think that in terms of Hannah and the comment she made around is he said he was a different height. My opinion and perspective on that, it might be a combination. I do think that he did say his height was like six, one or six two to her or something of that nature. I believe he said he was a height that he is not. But then I also think that we were all, I imagined like, he just told me he played football, Nick, right?

Starting point is 02:35:08 So I thought he played in like the NFL. I'm not someone who is super impressed by things like that personally. So I didn't even wanna ask follow-up questions, but he made it seem that way. I don't know, when I saw him, I was like, whoa. So he just said he played professional football, that's it? To me, he certainly did say he played professional football.

Starting point is 02:35:27 Wow, that's definitely misleading. Because like, technically, yes, he did play professional football, but like a kicker who didn't make it to the, he looks like a kicker who didn't make it to the NFL. And I don't mean that as a slight, I mean, he's an athletic guy, he's a reasonable height, but like, you know, kickers don't have to be tall,

Starting point is 02:35:46 first of all. Yeah, I mean, it's like if you said I'm only a kicker, you know, he didn't downplay, he oversold. There's a reason why he said I'm a former football player and left it at that. As someone who knows nothing about sports, if I were in a pod and somebody says I played professional football,

Starting point is 02:36:04 I'm gonna be thinking you're 6'1", and like up 200-something pounds. Like, that's just what I know. Bam. Right? Like, I wouldn't be like, maybe there's a chance her kicker's body is different. I don't know, you're a football player. Well, if I were in the pods with the ladies,

Starting point is 02:36:22 and I were her kicker punter, I would've been like, there are no guarantees, ladies, that this man is that tall, buyer beware, because you could be misinformed. So what do you make of that, in terms of, what do you think that says about Nick D? That's a great question. I don't know, I think for me, things like that, you know, people,

Starting point is 02:36:46 for me personally, like people who lead, talking about their money or talking about the fact that they used to play football, it just doesn't, I was really trying to do something different than before and it really just wasn't impressed. It was actually the opposite of impressive to me. It was like, yeah, I probably then moved to the bottom of my list. So I don't know. I don't know, it doesn't say much other than the fact that I do think he's really proud of it, but I also think that it was weird to me that he wasn't very specific about the football thing,

Starting point is 02:37:12 but I don't know. I feel like he could have just been more direct of what that actually was. At this point, granted maybe we'll see it later in the season, but at this point, we just see a lot of y'all ladies talking about the kind of shock moment with Nick.

Starting point is 02:37:26 Did anyone address it with Nick in terms of like his over promise and his under deliver? I remember having a moment to have a conversation with him in Mexico. I addressed certain things that I was thinking about him and perhaps I had maybe said. And so for example, like I remember Hannah at one point saying to me in the pods that in the women's lounge of pods, you know, I'm just a little nervous that Nick thinks I look like Jessica Simpson from Daisy Dukes. And that was like kind of just alarming for me of like, why do you, why is someone already making you feel insecure?

Starting point is 02:38:00 Now, listen, it could be a combination of just her own insecurities or what he was saying, but I was able to have a conversation like that with Nick where it was like I was just concerned about things that Hannah was saying and so I've been a little bit more reserved in getting to know you because I don't know if it was what you were saying, but if you were saying things, that's not cool. Yeah, well that's interesting, thanks for sharing that.

Starting point is 02:38:23 Before, I know you have to get going soon, but Tim and Alex, we kind of the episode six ends, it seems like they're about to break up. It was one of those classic things. There was a fight off camera. We didn't get to see. It sounds like, you know, it was after the party, drinks were involved. Clearly Tim thinks Alex said something that rubbed him the wrong way. But I can't get a read on it because Tim seems like a really nice guy. But I also, it's like the first five minutes of watching him, I said to Natalie, he takes himself a little too seriously. I need him to chill out just a little bit. He seems sincere and genuine and earnest and he seems like his character matters to him

Starting point is 02:39:05 and these are all great qualities but I'd need him to chill out. On the flip side, it does seem like Alex just a little bit likes to kind of like poke the bear and kind of critique the very middle school where when we like someone, we feel like we love to, oh, when I give people, I, when I give people, I love people I give shit to, but it's just like, so did you hear from either

Starting point is 02:39:30 Alex or Tim, like what was said? Cause I could see it both ways. I could see Tim maybe slightly overreacting and I can also see maybe Alex getting a little drunk and saying something that was rude. What do you know, if anything? So I love Alex to death, love her dearly. And if you remember, shortly before the episode ends and they show that conversation between Alex and Tim,

Starting point is 02:39:58 when Steven and I are talking, I'm like, did you notice something with Alex and Tim tonight? Like something felt really off to me. I don't know if you recall that, but I say that to him and he's like, you you notice something with Alex and Tim tonight? Like something felt really off to me. I don't know if you recall that, but I say that to him and he's like, you were sitting closer to them. And I'm like, I don't know, something. So I, when we were walking up to the rooms, I was picking off, picking up on something.

Starting point is 02:40:17 They were at an argument. I don't know. That's, you know, I just felt like there was something, maybe they got into their first fight. Like something just felt very, very, very off. So yeah, I think that it's a combination of a lot of things that happened between the two of them. I'm gonna let them speak on the details of that

Starting point is 02:40:33 because I don't know all of them and I certainly don't know Tim's perspective, but I do definitely think what you said about Alex's sense of humor is for sure a like poking the bear a little bit and she's trying to have fun with it, but it's definitely maybe not for everyone. Yeah, or just like maybe you just have to build a rapport

Starting point is 02:40:51 first before you kind of go down that lane. Because like, yeah, Tim strikes me as a guy who's pretty chill, pretty cool, but he definitely has a couple of triggers that like, you may not want to go there. That's just the read I get. But also, I think as men, sometimes we try to put on a brave face and act like nothing bothers us,

Starting point is 02:41:14 but sometimes I feel like we can feel disrespected, or I think in a lot of cases, for example, I think it's fairly common in relationships for, I've been called an asshole by every girlfriend I've ever had. You know? And, you know, oh, you're such a fucking asshole, whatever, you know what I'm saying? I would literally never say that to the person I'm dating.

Starting point is 02:41:34 You know? And I think sometimes guys in general are more used to like putting up with a certain type of way of communicating that they would never speak to someone. And I think sometimes sometimes there's a line where it might go too far, where you can get comfortable talking a certain way, where you're just like,

Starting point is 02:41:52 wait, can you stop calling me this? If you really think I am, tell me. Or are you just saying it? I couldn't tell whether Tim was being, again, too sensitive or maybe she said some shit that was not cool. So, I'm just curious. Yeah, I totally agree. Well, I know you gotta go, Monica.

Starting point is 02:42:10 It's been such a pleasure getting to know you. We certainly wish you the best of luck along the way. Very excited to see how your and Steven's journey unfolds. You guys are a very fascinating couple. It's been really fun getting to know you both and rooting for you both. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

Starting point is 02:42:28 And also before I go, I just wanted to say, I'm a huge fan of all of you. I listened to your podcast weekly. I think that you are like, have such great perspective to share and even leading up to leaving to go on the show. There's certain things that you've said along the way that have been so helpful to me as someone

Starting point is 02:42:42 who's done reality or in terms of you have done doing reality television. So just yeah oh well we we really appreciate you saying that we're fans of you and um thanks for coming on hopefully we'll see you again awesome thanks guys all right take care bye all right bye you know what i'm pretty curious about what i'm curious about like why they didn't pick Leo and Brittany. I think from the reveal, it looks doomed. Yeah. But you could tell she was like not into it and he was overly like grabbing. But they went on a trip, though.

Starting point is 02:43:11 But that's why I thought it was weird was that like none of the other couples mentioned like an alternative trip. And then he kept saying, like, well, if we don't go to Mexico, we'll go to Miami. So it was like almost kind of seemed like maybe they told them that there's a chance you won't be chosen. But like how they got engaged anyway and how toxic that like she was being like, I don't know what I did that I'm like they're like we want people to actually look like they're falling in love Has this happened before Nick on past seasons where like not every couple is chosen? Well, that was I but I don't understand

Starting point is 02:43:38 It's yes I you know we've heard with other seasons and and and the couples who don't get picked go on Instagram and be like, I actually got engaged and then it airs as if they were wronged in some way and then some of the fans are like, why did you show us? It's just like, Jesus fucking Christ, it's a TV show.

Starting point is 02:43:57 They have to make sure they have enough, you cast more than you need kind of thing. What I didn't understand and what I found frustrating is why did you show so much of Leo and Brittany? I was invested, I was invested, fine. If someone's faking it, I read it as maybe the producers didn't buy into their sincerity that maybe they were doing it for TV.

Starting point is 02:44:18 Fine, whatever, let it play out. They did so much to show us or just not show them at all. I thought to myself, well maybe they did it because of the love triangle, that how could you show Hannah's story without showing Leo's story, and the fact that he was obviously going back with someone else, and I'd be willing to guess that's it,

Starting point is 02:44:38 but that being said, we have seen them literally edit out people with no problem. They have a lot of control in the editing room. So I am curious, I wanna get some answers. I wonder if they had a conversation after the reveal with one or the other being like, okay B4L, like do you think you like the other person? And like one of them said like,

Starting point is 02:44:59 mm I don't really know, like I kinda felt pressured. Well when she, like when he was like cuddling and like hugging on her and like- He was grabbing her neck. And not in a rude way, I guess, but like it was this overly too much touch. Well, when she was being held, she literally goes,

Starting point is 02:45:13 this is the most awkward moment of my life. And that's where I was like, okay, these two aren't gonna continue on because I'm like, this is your engagement. Meeting your husband, your supposed husband, soon to be husband. And like, you're being held by this person, and he's pretty much being like, shh, baby, don't worry, I got you, I got you, I love you.

Starting point is 02:45:30 The kissing, there was too much kissing. Yeah, put your jacket. And he was the one initiating it, she looked uncomfortable. It seemed very performative. Performative, yeah, that's what it was at the end of the day. But yeah, and I agree with all that, but I wanted to see it play out.

Starting point is 02:45:42 I didn't want a whole, they went to Miami and broke up two weeks later. I want, I was, they were, Leo was one of the most entertaining people in the pods. But what will be interesting to see is if, you know, when they do the party after the fact and they have people that were in the pods come back. I hope they bring them back.

Starting point is 02:45:59 So I would assume they would. They have to. Because he's gonna have to want to meet Hannah. And like that would be spicy a little bit just to see what happened. I get a feeling they're not going to. Bring him back? So they brought, what's his face and just.

Starting point is 02:46:09 Only because it was just kind of weird that they weren't, I think it was fascinating that the show was like, they weren't chosen by producers. They went on a show two weeks later. Right. I made up the storyline, they didn't get an offer. Leo was like, I'll take you to Miami. They went, she was like, okay, but everybody else went to Mexico, why are we in Miami?

Starting point is 02:46:27 And then they were just, she just realized he's not enough. That's the storyline I made up. I'm pretty sure I'm right, that they thought they were inauthentic, but they had to show it because it was so intertwined with him. I agree, I think that's part of it. Still slightly annoying though. But fine, call out the inauthenticity.

Starting point is 02:46:43 See the fights. Yeah, I agree. Or like, maybe they were like, do you wanna go to Mexico? And she was like, I don't wanna share a hotel room It's a little slightly annoying though. But fine, call out the inauthenticity. See the fights. Maybe they were like, do you wanna go to Mexico? And she was like, I don't wanna share a hotel room with this person. I don't feel comfortable. Exactly. Maybe he was like, I don't wanna share a room with her.

Starting point is 02:46:54 Who knows? You never know. I will say about Monica before we move on from her, I really appreciated from her kind of storyline on the show so far that she started on the show being like, I prioritized men with high jobs and a university degree. And then with Steven, she was like, I don't really care. It doesn't matter.

Starting point is 02:47:10 I think they're so sweet. Me too. For me, it's Taylor and Garrett, and then Monica and Steven are my favorite couples. Because they're the couples that are like, they're so wholesome that you assume nothing bad's gonna happen. I'm notoriously wrong on these dating shows. I always, the couples that I root for are always the couples that go through it, and I'm notoriously wrong on these dating shows. I always, the couples that I root for are like always the couples that like go through it

Starting point is 02:47:26 and I'm like. So yeah, maybe we're wrong. You know what I mean? They're misdirecting. Breaking news, it's not breaking news. Variety, Emily, friend of show, Emily Longaretti from Variety actually spoke with Chris the creator and he said as much.

Starting point is 02:47:41 He said he found him to be inauthentic and their stories were intertwined as much. But again, I would challenge Chris to be like, show us that, just show the inauthenticity, call it out. Do you know a thing or two about reality TV, Nick? I wanna see, I wanna see the inauthenticity. Are you casting Love is Wine as well on Taba Bachelor? No, what do you mean?

Starting point is 02:48:04 No. Oh. Anyway. You're producing that one too? Do you think Tim and Alex are definitely breaking up? I don't know. They have potential to stay together. That conversation was a little-

Starting point is 02:48:15 I don't think they're gonna break up right away. It's too soon. Too soon, I agree. It's too soon for a fight to that magnitude where he's literally disassociating while she's trying to convince him it's not as bad as it was by moving closer to him. When he said, I would rather not,

Starting point is 02:48:29 and then she still scoot closer to him, I was like, oh, okay, so we don't have. I actually think they both hate each other, and I think with Alex and Tim, no, hear me out. You're seeing, you're seeing, I do, I do. I think they hate each other. And you're seeing the kind of very stereotypical behavior in a heterosexual relationship when a man wants

Starting point is 02:48:48 out of a relationship and a woman wants out of a relationship. When a man wants out of a relationship, he just chooses to annoy the fuck out of her. He wants to give her the ick. Men, we know we give you guys the ick sometimes, and we never wanna be the bad guy, we never wanna end the relationship, because it never goes well for us.

Starting point is 02:49:05 It's a lot easier for y'all to break up with us because we suck and we would rather be the guy who gives you the ick than I guess anything else. Tim finds out she hates the hat. He's like, I love this hat, I'm gonna get this hat. And then the ladies out there, when they went out of a relationship, what do they do? They hate everything about you.

Starting point is 02:49:21 They just fucking nag, they fucking nitpick, they just fucking like, oh god, everything, they just want, they let you know everything about you. They just fucking nag they fucking nitpick. They just fucking you know fucking like oh, God You're every everything they just want they let you know everything about you annoys them and you have two people just Tim's just trying to annoy the fuck out of her Alex is trying to let him know that she she is in fact annoyed And it's like come on. We know you fucking hate each other You're both trying to just get out of this relationship, and I think we're seeing the beginning stages I don't think they hate each other. I think what it is, I think what it is is that they both are the person where when there's one conflict they both disengage. So like

Starting point is 02:49:51 Alex is walking out not sharing the room. Tim is like, no, no, I'm not going to tolerate it. No. So it's like they both disengage. It's like any confrontation is not going to work. So I just think it's a compatibility thing, not I hate you. Because they appreciate each other. I think they hate each other. I think they I mean, I'm obviously being a slightly less exaggerate or whatever exaggerating But I think deep down whether they even realize it or not. They want out. That's not hey I don't hate they they want out they like they they regret getting engaged. She's still fighting for it That's a thing it's just like it's a game they play, you know Tim's fighting for her too But he's also wearing the stupid fucking hat and it's like game they play. Tim's fighting for it too, but he's also wearing

Starting point is 02:50:25 the stupid fucking hat. And it's like if he really wanted to fight for the relationship, he wouldn't have gotten the hat. Well Tim said, I walked into the room wanting to break up. Like he said something along the lines of that. So it's like, is he really fighting for it? I'm not saying he's not, but. No, but he has the right to express how he feels

Starting point is 02:50:39 about a situation. I think this whole having the conversation and blah blah blah is just playing the role of caring. You know, and like they're taking the, like, I think they really wanted to get engaged. I think there were some steep genuine feelings between the two and for whatever reason, you know, there is such, when these people are in the pods,

Starting point is 02:50:59 they're fucking amped the fuck up. You know what I'm saying? Like every emotion is just fucking intense. They have no other outlets. You know what I'm saying? Like every emotion is just fucking intense. They have no other outlets. You know what I'm saying? There's just nowhere else for their feelings to go. And while they're still in the bubble when they go to Mexico, it's not the same, right?

Starting point is 02:51:17 So like for some people, there can be like kind of a decompression, you know, and like a kind of like, do I actually feel the way I felt in the pods? And I think with Alex and Tim, you're seeing a projection of them kind of being like, I don't know, man, like I really felt this in the pods, but it's kind of now that I'm face to face with this person,

Starting point is 02:51:36 I don't know, I don't know. I think the pods really brought out what they liked about each other. And you know, for example, with Garrett and Taylor, you're seeing them be able to build on this very strong connection outside of the pods, where with Alex and Tim, I think it's a lot of like, I don't know, man, I think most of our connection

Starting point is 02:51:53 was based off what we had in the pods, and now we annoy the fuck out of each other. And I just think you're seeing this very kind of game that they're playing with each other, instead of just saying, hey listen, my feelings are starting to change change and yada yada, it is, they're just trying to get the other person to break up with them.

Starting point is 02:52:09 I think it's kind of hilarious. I'm sorry, it's just like, when she's like, I hate your fashion, and he's like, well I love my fashion. Those are two people who don't wanna date. And that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. I don't think they hate each other.

Starting point is 02:52:19 But it's not a, whatever the reason their feelings have changed. I'm saying the word hate. No I know. But like, yes, they don't like each other. Their feelings aren't as strong. Any guy in a relationship who really wants to be in a relationship, like wants their person to trust them.

Starting point is 02:52:34 I have always taken pride in the fact that I always thought I had some kind of fashion sense, right? But it's like- Fashionable pajamas. But it's never stopped me from like taking a note from the person I'm in a relationship with that they're like, I really like that on you. That looks nice on you.

Starting point is 02:52:49 That doesn't look great on you. You know, things like that. And the fact that he is so like defiant and like owning his style. It's just like an obnoxious trait that men will do when they want out. It was the, my dog comment for me where I was just like, okay, she's letting you know

Starting point is 02:53:05 that she hates it, she doesn't like it, she's counting down how many times you can say it left. And so like, why do we feel the need to continue to say it? Keeping tally. You know, exactly. Yeah, cause they could just not, you know, they're antagonizing each other. A thousand percent.

Starting point is 02:53:19 That's what it is, yes. A thousand percent. What do you think about Hannah and Nick D, and specifically, it's Mexico. I think we kind of saw another side of Hannah with the- The jealousy thing. The older woman gumming up to Nick

Starting point is 02:53:32 and wanting to ride the ducks or whatnot. And the way that she retold the story to a girlfriend. The woman directed it at me. The way that she said it made it sound like this woman was like, screw this bitch. And I was like, that's not how she said it at all. It was in Hannah's defense slightly was that. I see, I see.

Starting point is 02:53:48 Like she wasn't fully lying. If I had to pick, I'm team Hannah. I don't think the woman was being derogatory too, or she just said, you're jealous. That's not about that at all. It's about, like her point was, like, I'm a big believer. And you got to protect the relationship you're in. You got to prioritize the person you're in.

Starting point is 02:54:03 Like when you're out in public and you're in a committed relationship, the person you're in. When you're out in public and you're in a committed relationship, they're your priority and you need to look the part. I don't think most relationships do this, right? I don't, like Natalie and I have talked about this. When we talked about the other week OC, when Heather had that hot mic moment and I was like, honestly,

Starting point is 02:54:20 I thought this was a sign of a healthy relationship. Because here are two people who are like, every couple has a conflict, every couple will say or do things that upset their partner. But they're trying to have that conversation behind closed doors because they don't want to embarrass or diminish the other person's value, right? And so Nick is in this new relationship,

Starting point is 02:54:41 and yes, clearly the woman he was playing games with was someone that shouldn't be a threat to him. Right? But the fact that it was so easy for him to, he's clearly flirtatious, and if he can flirt with her, he can literally flirt with anybody. And the fact that he was so willing to be flirtatious with her and flirt back,

Starting point is 02:54:59 I think it's a little disrespectful. Okay, and maybe I saw this differently, but I'm also kind of like somebody to where it is not a threat and fine if you're insecure about that, absolutely, but I'm also kind of like, where's the line of being flirtatious or just like having a fun little moment? Like I don't think he was like being like,

Starting point is 02:55:19 yeah, by the way, my hotel room is. Like he was just having a nice interaction with a stranger. I don't think Nick did it maliciously, and I don't think he was like being a creep. I just think he, call it immaturity, I just think he wasn't prioritizing his new fiance and her potential feelings, and he was not going

Starting point is 02:55:41 out of his way to make sure that she felt prioritized and protected and things like that. He gave the whole, well, I'm just being myself. And it's like, she's not saying don't be fun or have fun. It's just like. She kind of was. She kind of did. She was like, if you go over on those ducks, it's an ick.

Starting point is 02:55:58 And I'm like, why is he not allowed to have fun? And the fact of the matter is that the woman is an external additional issue to have, but it was even her being like, I'll get grossed out by you if you go do that. If that's something he likes to do for fun, why do we get to police what other people do? I think it's a time and a place.

Starting point is 02:56:13 I just think they literally just met. They just got engaged, rather. They just face to face. There's a lot of potential, getting to know you, insecurities, and things like that. And I just think his energy should be focused on her and her needs. And if she communicates something,

Starting point is 02:56:31 I think he should listen. Not listen like it's a rule, but he should take a note about what's important to her and show her that matters. I agree with that wholeheartedly, but at the same time, I do think that people should be allowed to be who they are. And if that's something that he found enjoyment in, and as I said, taking the woman completely

Starting point is 02:56:48 out of the situation, like if I were like to my boyfriend, like, oh, if you wear that shirt, like I will not talk to you all night. I won't stand next to you. Like that's just rude and mean. Like it's like, that's who he is as a person. That's what he likes. Like who is it? Why is it my responsibility to make him feel bad about it?

Starting point is 02:57:03 Well, to a certain agree, I mean. Ultimately, yeah. That's what I'm saying, all he wanted to do was ride the ducks, he could ride the ducks, it could have been over in five minutes and be done, but instead it was like, let's berate you for five minutes about how disgusting I think that is. He was like, well, I'm gonna go do it anyways,

Starting point is 02:57:17 because there's no way you could be serious about this. I agree with this, but also Nick's point of like, she gave him every warning in that instance not to do it. So it's like, it's the double edged sword of like it goes both ways. I get what you're saying and yes, I think, listen, as a guy, if I were just in Nick's position, I could see why he, like man or woman,

Starting point is 02:57:35 we don't wanna be in a relationship with someone who's jealous and insecure. Or who makes us feel like we can't be ourselves. Nick doesn't do that to need to be himself. It's like he didn't have to go on those ducks. And like he can still be ourselves. Nick doesn't do that to need to be himself. It's like he didn't have to go on those ducks. And like he can still be a playful person. He can still be an extrovert and talkative and friendly with people.

Starting point is 02:57:53 But I'm saying there's a time and a place. And in this moment, instead of prioritizing his partner's needs, it was more important for him to say, I need to be who I am, and you don't get to tell me what to do. And I'm gonna show you that I can flirt with these people without actually being a thing. You need to have a rapport with someone.

Starting point is 02:58:10 Your partner needs to be secure and confident in themselves before you start testing those limits, which I think is, Nick needs to be able to test that, Nick needs to be able to be himself, but you have to make sure your partner feels safe and secure before you do that, and he was just like, I'm gonna be me first, and I need to see if she's willing to accept me

Starting point is 02:58:29 before I make sure that she is comfortable with this environment. And given the environment, given the state of their relationship, or where things with that, I'm a slightly more team Hannah than I am team Nick. No, that's fine. To be fair, as I said, for that isolated situation, I still stand by what I said,

Starting point is 02:58:45 but I did forget about when they were sitting on the chairs and they were all gonna meet all the other cast members and he was like, oh, I wonder what all the women look like. And that was like a, say it in your mind, not out loud. It's just a little bit of like childish energy of like, and again, I don't doubt that Nick's flirting is almost always harmless. But like, I do think doubt that Nick's flirting is almost always harmless, but I do think there's something to be said about once you're

Starting point is 02:59:08 in a committed relationship, you don't get to say, well, I'm just a flirt, yeah, stop flirting. You're not in a committed relationship before. And it doesn't matter if they're not hot, and it doesn't matter if you wouldn't date them. I'm a straight man, I could still flirt with a gay man, and I don't think I should if I'm in a committed relationship. I just don't think you should be flirtatious with people.

Starting point is 02:59:29 And because it creates an opportunity to have your partner feel a certain way. And then it puts them in a position to come across as jealous with someone they shouldn't be jealous about and it's not that they're jealous about that person. They're just wondering why you're so fucking flirtatious with this person when wondering why you're so fucking flirtatious with this person when I'd rather have you

Starting point is 02:59:46 be flirtatious with me. When we're out in public, if you wanna flirt with someone, fucking flirt with me, don't flirt with other people. And I don't think that's controlling or possessive. I think that's this like bare minimum when it comes to a relationship, especially early on. Well, and as you said too, she did make it clear about her insecurities and whatnot. So I'm like talking about other people's appearances or I guess flirting with a fit older woman

Starting point is 03:00:10 I could see how that would be also playing into her insecurities. She told you yeah The part that I thought was weird was later when everybody met each other Hannah was like he won't talk about sex that was every time they kind of vaguely brought it up It was like did they have? Did they not have sex? Why are we even wondering? I honestly was confused by that. I was like, oh, they didn't have sex. And then yeah, I was just like,

Starting point is 03:00:29 why is he being weird about it? And if he's immature, you would think he would want to be like, oh, we had sex, we had sex. He kept saying he has a brand to product, and I was like, what is it? Being like a realtor maybe? I think everybody that is in a relationship,

Starting point is 03:00:42 I just assume that like. Unfortunately, I think if you're under the age of 30, you speak in those terms about brand. And no, I mean, yeah, I think if you grew up on social media, you've been, you know, your brand matters. Like I, first time I heard the word, like be conscious of your brand is when I got a job at Salesforce.

Starting point is 03:01:00 And they were like, that was the first time I even heard the phrase, like your brand and what do you stand for and how do people see you and blah, blah, blah. And that was, it was the first time I even heard the phrase like your brand and what do you stand for and how do people see you and blah, blah, blah. And that was, it was like a corporate America in terms of like, hey, if you wanna get promoted, you know, if you wanna do this, you know,

Starting point is 03:01:12 like that matters. And like that was something they kind of taught you. I don't think I've ever used the word brand, like my brand, my brand. Brand deal. As someone under 30. I'm glad. Well, what did you think about her list that was left out?

Starting point is 03:01:26 Oh, that was intentional, right? To leave it out? What was on the list? It was like a list of flaws almost. It was two into his feelings, question mark, immature question mark, self-confidence. Did she present this list to him? No, she wrote it and then left it on a counter.

Starting point is 03:01:39 On the nightstand, essentially. Or on the nightstand, so then it makes it even worse. And then he came in and saw it and read it. So he- Do you think she did it on purpose? I think it would have had to be. Like if you're writing something so like, not quote unquote judgmental, you would be putting it away.

Starting point is 03:01:53 What was her like reasoning? I feel like she tried to make it seem like it was accidental. Yeah, and she said like, I mean, part of the other stuff was actions speak louder than the room, respect, social awareness. Like she kind of doubled down on what she said. And they did sit down and talk about it, but.

Starting point is 03:02:08 Yeah. But then what did he say about delusional? I'm not dealing with delusional is what he said. I hated that comment too, because again, I don't think it's gaslighty, right? I mean, I think it's just, I think it's him being defensive. But I think a lot of people nowadays

Starting point is 03:02:24 would call it gaslighty because it's like, defensive. But I think a lot of people nowadays would call it gaslady because it's like, you know you're flirting. And doesn't matter that this person isn't someone you wouldn't fuck. Like you don't get to call him delusional for the fact that they're a little uncomfortable with you flirting with someone, period. It would make Hannah feel crazy for feeling the way she does

Starting point is 03:02:42 and Nick's completely dismissing it as if this shouldn't bother you, and it's just like you don't know. The illusion was a very strong word. Strong, yeah. But he didn't say it necessarily in a way that was super aggressive. You know, it's funny, I remember dating situations with,

Starting point is 03:02:57 you know, one in particular, I went on like one date with this girl, and on the first date she told me that she was a jealous person. And usually, I almost took that as a potential, almost like a green flag, where I saw it as potentially self-awareness. And so I was like, you know what?

Starting point is 03:03:12 You're probably maybe being too hard on yourself, and maybe the fact that you can own that is, the self-awareness was actually better than the accusation that you're a jealous person. And then between our first and second date, it was clear that she was stalking my Instagram and asking me questions. And at this point, I've been single for years,

Starting point is 03:03:30 I have a lot of women friends, and it was like, who's this, who's this, who's that? And so yeah, as someone who may have been single for a certain period of time, who might have a handful of women platonic friends, it can get very frustrating to have to defend your friendships when there's nothing wrong. I think it's a lot different than flirting with a stranger

Starting point is 03:03:50 for no fucking reason in front of your partner's face, regardless whether you think they have a reason to actually be jealous. I hope they work out, Nick and Hannah. I will say this season more than anyone, I'm rooting for as many successful relationships. And I think this is more just me projecting my general fears and frustrations over dating culture in general.

Starting point is 03:04:11 There's so much disconnect with people finding love. And what's nice about this, there seems to be a lot of good matches and potential here. And whether it's Garrett and Taylor, Monica and Steven, Marissa and Ramses like Tyler and Ashley There's just a lot of people who like seem sincere about finding love have a desire to find love and potentially have found it with Someone and it seems to be harder than ever for people to do that. I'm really rooting for them Hannah and Nick I you know, I don't know. Okay. Did you catch in the opening teaser that

Starting point is 03:04:42 Ramses says if I wasn't engaged I'd have sex with you in the opening teaser that Ramzes says, if I wasn't engaged, I'd have sex with you in the opening teaser? And it might be misleading, but it appears that Ramzes is saying that comment who knows who he's talking to or what context. You know, it's interesting because Ramzes right now is this super emotional, in touch with his feelings. And sometimes those people have another side.

Starting point is 03:05:00 Typically. They're too in touch, so they're hiding another side, right? Well. Potentially. Now more than ever, all of us, our society feels as though our feelings are more important than anyone else's. And we justify our behavior based off our feelings.

Starting point is 03:05:19 And because we feel a certain way, we feel right. And people who are hyper emotional in tune are often people who, when they get super emotional and get commended for their emotions, will do things and feel like it's okay because they're emotional. They lead with it. Yeah. So yeah, I don't know. It could be a total mislead. That would be sad because man, who said it? Marissa and Ramses, maybe of all the couples, look really great together. I mean, they look, I mean, there's a lot,

Starting point is 03:05:47 I mean, there's a lot of great matches. I mean, they really do, but Marissa and Ramses really seem like a great fit, so. Yeah, and as you said that, I was like, great. I'm like, I wanna add Ashley and Tyler to my list. I love them. They're so wholesome and cute, like crying in bed together.

Starting point is 03:06:04 And I don't know, I just feel like, I feel like that's the whole thing is like, what's so cool about it is that people They're so wholesome and cute, crying in bed together. I don't know, I just feel like, I feel like that's the whole thing is like, what's so cool about it is that people are being forthcoming about who they are and what they want when they typically blinded by seeing somebody, you want to impress them. So you try to like dish out all of these facts

Starting point is 03:06:17 about yourself to make yourself seem cooler or better. But these people are actually connecting on the fact that like, these are my values. This is what I want. I want a family, I want kids, and a lot of times dating, you can't say these things until months, if not, I don't even know what the timeline is nowadays.

Starting point is 03:06:32 Because I feel like situationships last years before you get a title, so I'm saying to somebody in three months, at some point I wanna have children, maybe not with you, but I do wanna have children, is that something you're interested in? And they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, don't tie me down. So that's what I like about this process, is that it's like they actually get to know each other

Starting point is 03:06:51 and present themselves authentically, and they find the person that connects with them on that level too, so. I think people should try to date like this in the real world. Truly. I mean, minus the whole not being able to see each other, which would still be kinda cool.

Starting point is 03:07:04 Like what if they started like pop-ups or something for like the dating, like if you want to like be part of. A speed round. Yeah, like getting to know somebody and just like not having to worry about it and then. There is a business to be made out there from all the people. That's what's so crazy nowadays about love and dating

Starting point is 03:07:20 is usually there's, you know, when something isn't happening, there's usually either a lack of demand or a lack of surplus. And when it comes to love and dating is usually there's, when something isn't happening, there's usually either a lack of demand or a lack of surplus. And when it comes to love and relationships, what's so fascinating about the disconnect is the demand's never been more stronger and the surplus, there's so many more single people than ever before because they're not matching.

Starting point is 03:07:39 We have the demand, we have the supply and it's still not happening. Yeah. Can we start it? Sure. Let's do it. Come up with an idea. Can we start it? Sure, let's do it. Come up with an idea. Like a love is buying ex-nick by all. Or just like some kind of like,

Starting point is 03:07:50 especially in big cities, like people need to interact. And then, but be guided. Like, you know, like I just, there's so many, there's so many reasons nowadays to like say, I'm out. I got the ick. I don't know. I'm not, you know, and I think what this process does

Starting point is 03:08:07 is allow people to work through those. Not care about it. Those highs and lows and those like weird moments, you know, maybe, because like, you know, Hannah and Nick absolutely could end up together because this show is always going to, when there is conflict, really, you know, to focus on it and make you wonder,

Starting point is 03:08:24 are they gonna break up or they're not? I mean, for all I know, Tim and Alex are the only focus on it and make you wonder, are they gonna break up? I mean, for all I know, Tim and Alex are the only couple that makes it. I'm pretty sure they're not going to, because they truly hate each other. But yeah, it's that getting through that other side. And cutting the bullshit. And actually being able to let down your walls

Starting point is 03:08:40 and share things that are vulnerable and kind of hard for you to talk about or share in a place where you don't have somebody staring right at you being like, and then what or like, fuck, get me out of here. It's like, okay, no, you're just having open and honest conversations in a very shortened amount of time. But it's like the ability to open up is what I think hinders a lot of people in relationships and whatnot, because they're afraid to expose something of themselves. And even then, those are typically the more beautiful parts of you

Starting point is 03:09:06 and that will help somebody relate to you but it's like no, I'm perfect. No, I have my shit together. I think Sierra headed on the head too because it's like not only are you like not seeing the person but I think being able to like interact with the person without other people seeing you is like another level.

Starting point is 03:09:21 Like and they're in isolated rooms. Yeah, there's no outside forces making you feel self-conscious about what you're sharing or what you're talking about Or being willing to go to that next level and typically you don't even see in these pods people being like, you know I'm not ready to have that conversation yet. They're like, okay Well, there is something like you know what I mean And I think that that that's awesome and I wish that people were more authentic when it comes to dating because maybe you would connect On real levels versus just superficially, I think you're good looking, so I'm gonna try to do everything to hide and suppress

Starting point is 03:09:49 who I am as a person, because I don't want you to break up with me, because heaven forbid, I have feelings or opinions that you don't like. Preach. You know? Well, we gotta figure it out. Gotta figure it out. All right, well, it is time to go.

Starting point is 03:10:00 We appreciate y'all listening. We wanna thank Joey, Kelsey, and Monica for joining us this episode. On Thursday we got a great episode for you. First of all, Charles, your favorite Golden Bachelor is with us to talk about his entire experience, the charming man that he is. We are excited to talk to him. Plus, Jutes, you might know him as Demi Lovato's fiance. He's also a big reality TV fan. He's going to help us break down some love is blind as well. Talk about his new music and his relationship with Demi.

Starting point is 03:10:31 Super excited to talk with him. It's gonna be a jam packed episode. We'll see you then. Bye. Hey moms, looking for some lighthearted guidance on this crazy journey we call parenting? Join me, Sabrina Kohlberg. And me, Andi Mitchell, for Pop Culture Moms. Where each week we talk about what we're watching. And examine our favorite pop culture moms up close to try to pick up some parenting hacks along the way

Starting point is 03:11:07 Come laugh learn and grow with us as we look for the best tips And maybe a few what not to do from our favorite fictional moms from Good Morning America and ABC audio Pop culture moms find it wherever you get your podcasts

The Viall Files - E820 - Joey and Kelsey Return, Monica from Love is Blind, RHOSLC, RHOC, and Ugly Halloween Costumes

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