The Viall Files - E823 - Love Is Blind’s Hannah, Joel Kim Booster Apology, RHOC, RHOSLC, and Tesla Robots

Episode Date: October 15, 2024

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  Huge news… Leah is back! We missed her! And just in time, because this week, we welcome Netflix’s Love is Blind’s Hannah to talk about all things post-pod. Meanwhile, we chat with Jillian Turecki about her new book. Also, we get into the newest restraining order rocking ABC’s Bachelor Nation, Joel Kim Booster’s apology to Shannon, RHOC, RHOSLC, and Tesla robots.  “I love a cave” - Leah Donate to Hurricane Relief HERE: https://samaritanspurse.org/article/pray-for-those-in-hurricane-miltons-path/?utm_source=Ggl&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=m_YGND-B24V&utm_content=milton-relief-lp&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD2XO8ec5EGaPQaDBMIpE0iDLHr2B&gclid=Cj0KCQjw05i4BhDiARIsAB_2wfClCbYlKAwWKlIC_-mhSvBVCLTj1P3E-eNjQlHMMUmFdtJ5iD7ZYDAaAplvEALw_wcB  ALSO… Buy our exclusive “The Podcast” merch: https://viallfiles.myshopify.com  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Follow us on X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheViallFiles Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Brooklinen - Visit in-store or online at https://www.Brooklinen.com to get 15% off your first order today! SKIMS - Shop SKIMS Bras at https://www.SKIMS.com. Now available in 62 sizes (30A - 46H). If you haven't yet, be sure to let them know we sent you! After Dreamland Baby - Go to https://www.dreamlandbabyco.com and enter my code VIALL at checkout to receive 20% off sitewide + free shipping. Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy@hannahjiles @jillianturecki @ciaracrobinson @justinkaphillips@leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell  Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 02:50 - Housekeeping 05:29 - Vibes Or Knowledge 07:14 - Diddy 10:34 - Tesla And Robots 17:16 - Golden Bachelorette 25:29 - RHOC 44:06 - RHOSLC 01:03:42 - Welcome Jillian 01:17:17 - Love Is Blind Initial Thoughts 01:25:50 - Hannah Interview 01:35:58 - Love Is Blind Recap 02:00:26 - Outro

Hey moms, looking for some lighthearted guidance on this crazy journey we call parenting? Join me, Sabrina Kohlberg. And me, Andi Mitchell, for Pop Culture Moms. Where each week we talk about what we're watching. And examine our favorite pop culture moms up close to try to pick up some parenting hacks along the way. Come laugh, learn, and grow with us as we look for the best tips. And maybe a few what not to do's from our favorite fictional moms. From Good Morning America and ABC Audio,

pop culture moms, find it wherever you get your podcasts. You're crazy. What's going on everybody? I'm your host, Kirsten. I'm your host, Kirsten. I'm your host, Kirsten. I'm your host, Kirsten. What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another electric episode of the Vile Viles Reality Recap Edition. I am your host, Nick, joined by the household.

It is superhero day and that's why I'm wearing this. You look good. We look good together. is superhero day and that's why I'm wearing this. You look good. No. We look good together. What is with these masks and superheroes? Like who back in the day decided- Hiding the identity.

First of all. Yeah, no one's gonna know it's you. I feel like I still know. Yeah, like I've been here this whole time. You just haven't noticed that I've been wearing this. Welcome back, Leia. Yay! Fresh off maternity leave, she got rid of her kid.

I'm just kidding. She was like, you know what? Nah. How is motherhood? Motherhood is great. I didn't know I could love anything as much as I do. It's really true what they say. And yeah, I mean, I'm loving every second of it.

But you missed coming back and taking care of these grown babies. Yeah, now I have more. Thank you. Well, we are very excited to have you back, Leia. We have an incredible, dare I say, unbelievable week ahead for y'all. It won't be just us dressed up in the,

who's who? Am I Captain, is it Captain Incredible? Captain Incredible? Mr. Incredible? Mr. Incredible. Mr. Incredible. Mr. Incredible. I'm Violet.

Yeah, you're Mr. Incredible. Can I talk about some trauma? Yeah. I know. On my first season of The Bachelorette, when Andy Dorfman was the lead, I was compared to some people online. And oftentimes when you go on TV,

you're hoping for like a celebrity comparison. I got some of those. I know what you're gonna say. One of them was the villain in The Incredibles. Oh. Really? People said you looked like him? Yeah, that and the Ghostbusters 2 villain. You know what, Nick?

I've been compared to this one. Wow, that's true, Fisk. Edna mode. Edna mode. Edna mode. This is my lookalike. That's my trauma. These are the worst. These make people look terrible.

I can't. These are pretty. Why did you have to say that while looking me in the eye? These things make people look awful. I will be honest. Even Justin look pretty good. Everyone in here has looked better. I'm taking these off.

I could not. I personally could not do. I'm sticking to the bit. I stand celebrated with Justin. Justin has his guns out. He does. I lost my Trader Joe's like muscles. So don't look too closely. Why didn't you cut any of our t-shirts?

You didn't want any of us to show our arms? This was already cut. Oh. Yeah. Okay. And that's that. Well, speaking of incredible, we have an incredible week. There we go. Like that.

Gypsy Rose returns to the Vilephiles this Wednesday for an electric explosive episode of Going Deeper and her new partner, Ken, the father of her child, is with us. Gypsy and Ken are with us in studio. I think she's, well, she is several months pregnant. I don't know. She's in her third trimester.

She's in her third trimester. You know, we haven't really, well, we haven't caught up with Gypsy since she was with us in January. Obviously a lot has happened and we get into all of it with Gypsy and Ken. The last time she was here, Ryan, her then husband, I think technically still her husband,

I think she's finishing up the whole divorce of it all. But you know, she's been through a lot as we know. I don't know what opinions are out there of Gypsy. Mine has always been, this is a person who really deserves, I think, people's grace and a chance to like get her life together. And like we talked about when we first interviewed her, I mean listen, it's a fascinating situation when prison is giving you more freedom than you had prior to going into prison. We know obviously we don't condone violence of any kind. It's a sad story with the abuse that she endured with her mom, but she is out and she's figuring out her life and certainly there's some mess that we

anticipate along the way, but we appreciate Gypsy coming in and sharing that story with us and it is truly an unbelievable one, so be sure to tune in on Wednesday for that. We have also today Hannah from Love is Blind, fresh off of telling Nick everything that's wrong with him. Again. For the 70th time. Yeah. Poor guy. anything that's wrong with him. Again. For the 70th time. Yeah.

Poor guy. We'll get the chance to talk with her. She stands by her approach. Hannah's not necessarily wrong with her critiques of Nick. I think we're just curious about her approach. The delivery. The delivery of a certain approach. Also, Jillian Turecki is with us.

She is here to talk about her new book, all about relationships dating. She's a relationship coach. She's also a fan of Love is Blind, obviously with all the social dynamics. So she'll be breaking that down with us as well, along with interviewing Hannah. Also on Thursday, we got Christo Minkoff and Cynthia Bailey

with us in studio for a major announcement. I am so excited for the announcement that they are going to be talking about and they'll be with us on Thursday. Charles is also with us on Thursday. Charles, your favorite golden bachelor. He will be calling it. Hopefully he'll have internet connection this week.

He is on vacation and enjoying life and we support that for Charles. So hopefully we'll get a chance to talk with Charles as well. All right, what happened over the weekend? I think Knowledge won. by I think I mean I'm pretty sure we went to an odd. And we have pulled ahead. That's unfortunate. Who what were the games to recap? Lions versus Cowboys and Falcons versus Panthers. Lions lost a big player there. Yeah poor Adrian Hutchinson. What a gruesome injury. He really sad though. He was maybe arguably the best player in the league this year. It was gruesome. It was terrible. And

our hearts go out to him and his family. And honestly, everyone in the Detroit fan base, as a Green Bay Packer fan, the Detroit Lions are not easy to hate because they've been so bad, but they deserve to lose to the Packers in the NFC championship game is all I'm really saying and It sucks to have a player like Adrian Hutchinson hurt the way it was. It was terrible. It was sad Our hearts go out to him. It sounds like you joined another or you have another person on your team Nick the knowledge over there No, I don't know I know things that happen like outside of the games.

Yeah, you were all talking about- Like the wives, the hugs, when they hug their wives. Did you see Juszczyk, like do his touchdown and then run and jump into his wife, Kristen's arms? That is what I see. I see the clips. That was beautiful. Nick, would you do that with me?

Absolutely, babe. And George Kittle, his friend, the tight end. Yes, Kittle. Yeah. His wife. What if I was up in the nosebleeds? Would you run? Oh my God Absolutely, babe. And George Kittle, his friend, the tight end. Yes, Kittle. His wife. What if I was up in the nosebleeds? Would you run? Oh my God, run all the way up.

I'd call a timeout, even though my coach would be super mad because timeouts are valuable, and I'd run all the way up to the nosebleeds, and I'd give you a big old kiss, and I'd run all the way back. They'd have to cut to a really long commercial break each time.

I would do that every time. Oh, that's cute. Every yard. Every yard? Every yard. Wow, this would be the longest time I go. Every yard. Every yard. Every yard? Every yard. Wow, this would be the longest football game ever. All right, what's going on in Household Headlines? On a heavier note, the P-Diddy trial has been set.

It's May of 20, when is it? May of 2025. May of 2025, which I guess, good. Usually these things can take a long time to set. Hopefully justice will be served sooner than later. I think people are starting to get. The dominoes are falling. Hopefully justice will be served sooner than later. I think people are starting to get. The dominoes are falling.

Yeah, the dominoes are falling. The dominoes are falling. Connie was sued for allegedly participating in said drugging of people at these crazy parties and he's accused of doing some terrible things along with his friend, Petity. So may all those guilty suffer terrible consequences. Let justice be served. Let justice be served.

Let justice be served. I did just get a jury summons, so definitely gonna answer that. You know what I was told in college, that if you just ignore it, nobody would ever know. No, you'll get arrested. Actually, I'm pretty sure Justin's right. Oh.

My friend was like, my mom, I'm not gonna say who she is, but she was like, my mom just ignores them, and they can't prove you ever received the mail. So like they just stopped sending it eventually because you never respond. I usually push mine off until November because they always say like,

if you push it off the week of Thanksgiving, it'll get canceled. So I've been doing that for years. And then I did try it the last time. I always get summoned for joy duty. This is your citizen duty. No, I know. So I tried it this year and the woman on the phone was like,

you can't do that. I'm like, what do you mean? She's like, you can't push it off to November 25th. I want to get called to jury duty so bad. I am like begging and they just won't pick me. Why won't they pick me? Have you voted in the state of California yet? I believe I am still actually registered in Georgia.

Do you have a driver's license for California? I do not. I have a Georgia. Yep. There you go. There it is. There it is. You're about to get summoned in Georgia. Do you have a driver's license for California? I do not, I have Georgia. There you go. There it is. You're about to get summoned in Georgia.

All right. I'm just not quite ready to part with my Georgia driver's license. No, I get this though, because that's me with my NorCal address. I haven't changed it legally technically. The day before I moved to LA, they summoned me for jury in Sacramento,

and I was like, now you do it? Couldn't even do it? Oh, gosh. Can't even do it. Well, if you get pulled over, the police officers will give a shit. Yeah. Wait, you can't drive with a different license? No, you can. But there'll be like, how long do you live here?

And now it's gonna be like four years. And then they're gonna get really, you know. I'm gonna say, but sir, look how cute I look in my picture. You think I could redo this? She's a long-term visitor. And they're gonna be mad because on some way, shape or form, they're gonna say, but sir, look how cute I look in my picture. You think I could redo this? She's a long-term visitor. And they're gonna be mad because on some way, shape or form, they're gonna say that you're not, because well, police officers get paid by state taxes

and technically, I guess you could argue that you're not paying state taxes, which is incorrect, because you are paying state taxes because you work in the state of California. But that's what they're gonna say. They're gonna act like- But then I'm gonna say, sir, do you know how hard it is to get a sleigh of a picture? And then he'll be like, I do understand.

And then I'll be like, okay, thank you. Absolutely. Have a great day. I did have a Georgia license as well. I had to get my license in Georgia when I lived there. Cause I got in, I moved to Georgia for less than a year and immediately got into a car accident and had to get a new car. And when you get a car in Georgia,

you gotta have a license in Georgia. And so I went, didn't have my glasses. I can't see for those of you who don't know. And when it came time for the vision test, she was like, okay, here are all the letters. And I'm just looking at a bunch of like blurry nothings. And there's no way I passed it. She looks at me, she's like, welcome to Georgia.

And she stamps my name. Insane, insane. Welcome to Georgia. welcome to Georgia, and she stamps my name. Insane, insane. Welcome to Georgia. Welcome to Georgia. You know what you don't need a license for? The new Tesla autobuses. What the hell is an autobus? Come into it.

So they have three new products that they just launched at their WeRobot event, which to me is scary, first of all. So they have the robot that can do your chores, grab your drinks, bring groceries in from the car. Looks like a human. Which people thought that they were self-automated, but it was actually someone controlling the robot. Granted, they're gonna do this in the future.

Then they have a taxi, an auto taxi, and then they have an autobus, and these are self-driving. Hate, and I'm against. They look like the cars and robots from iRobot. They do. Like literally. It's literally straight out of a sci-fi. They look like the cars and robots from iRobot. Like literally. It's literally straight out of a sci-fi.

They look like the Incredibles in the movie where they're like going into the, and don't they fit like an absurd amount of people? A lot of people, yeah. Wow. The bus isn't scary to me, the robot is. Yeah, the bus is like, okay cool, like a bus, but yeah, the robot, I don't need a,

yeah, no, I don't really need that. You definitely don't wanna go in for a robot. Yeah, no, I don't really need that. I'm walking around. You definitely don't wanna go in for version one. No, oh my God. That one's gonna kill you. You wanna wait for like 30 versions. It's the difference when your phone malfunctions. It just feels kind of like he's just trying so hard

to turn us into Blade Runner 2020, whatever movie. Elon, where I'm like these like futuristic designs that like everyone's like in the future, this is what everything's gonna look like. That we don't need this. It is really scary how much like technology and our phones like take over. Cause I have this app that tracks like when I breastfeed

and I'm like, if I miss a session, I'll go back in and fix it because I'm worried that my app is gonna get upset. I mean, we do need innovation. Well, one of the things that was in the commercial for this robot was I think babysitting the kids or at least being around your kids and giving them games and stuff.

And I was like, I don't know. You know that is the future. I mean, maybe not anytime soon. And I don't think I'm not into it. I don't think, yeah, I don't think I want to trust any recent version, but you know eventually that is the future. And you just know that it's all gonna get ruined

because some like basement straight weird guy is gonna like try to have sex with it and it's like gonna ruin everything and you know. Well no, they're gonna have sex bots. They're already doing that. Oh yeah. I think they, yeah, I think. Why do we need a robot taking care of your child?

We don't. Why do we need a self-driving car when we have people that can drive their own cars? Well, I definitely think we need self-driving cars because people are driving on their phones and they're fucking idiots. That is a thing in the way. But even then, Tesla truck blows up because the battery,

like, and people are stuck inside the truck, caught on fire. I mean, listen, accidents happen all day, but like right now, there's an accident. Right truck, caught on fire. Accidents happen all day, but right now, there's an accident. Right now an accident happened. I mean, they happen all the fucking time with people shaving, drinking, eating in their cars. You can't argue that eventually when they figure out

automation and self-driving cars, which they essentially have, it's gonna be way safer than humans. It's just, that's not even debatable. It's just not. Have you been in a Waymo yet? No. I got approved for the app though.

I rode in one. It was the scariest thing ever. Sure, but you made it. The self-driving car. I mean, I'm just objectively speaking, I understand that the scary parts of this, Natalie and I were in a self-driving car in Hawaii. I mean, granted that the driver was there,

but it drove itself. It was crazy and it's a little weird, but objectively speaking, given all the people on their phones and doing all the crazy shit They shouldn't be doing on their cars self-driving cars are way safer There'll be far less accidents and far less people like losing lives or having terrible injuries once this takes over I mean, it's just a fact if everybody has a self-driving but I'm saying eventually when

When this all you know comes a fruition told what to do because we'll get rid of the gas stations and put in the plugs. Now you can't even have a gas driving car because follow the rules. I don't like that. That's the fact of it. And even then where I'm like, Tesla was able to turn off somebody's car. Granted, they were a bad guy,

but they caught them and he was driving a Tesla and they were able to shut off his car. I mean, listen, there's a lot of scary stuff when it comes to all that stuff. I'm just saying, objectively speaking, people are bad drivers. Just they crazy. There's a lot of scary stuff when it comes to all that stuff. I'm just saying, objectively speaking, people are bad drivers. Just they are. They are.

I did see something about the Waymo cars where like at night, the Waymo cars park in a parking lot. But like imagine 50 different Waymo cars trying to park in slots at the same time in this parking lot and they honk at each other. So like they live next to houses and they're just literally, but first of all, there's nobody in the car. So they're honking at each other. Like y'all not communicate like text or something?

They're figuring out the glitches No it's literally like that movie where the world was ending and all the Tesla cars just started like driving themselves and crashing because like it Malfunctioned and everything is electronic and you can't trust electronics It's like those little the little robots that deliver food in LA I've seen those and they're always stuck at a corner and they're like, eh, take forever. And it's like it's because it doesn't know direction.

It's because whoever fucking made this like doesn't really know what the fuck they're doing. And those vacuums where they're just like, they just got everyone's taking you, Natalie. Thank you. Venting about robots. Wait, wait. Question about the food ones, like because I ordered from one the first time the other day, but I was down the street. So like I saw it, but you can't walk up to it, right? No, like has to go your location

Slow and people are always standing in front of it taking photos, and it's like Is that an option no, but you don't have to pay tip I learned that so you're saving two dollars Thank God cold cold food And there's like, everyone's stopping and videoing it as it's going by. It's insane. To Nick's point though, like every car in LA, if you look into their car, they're on their phone.

Do you think a robot can cut someone's hair? I wouldn't trust it. I cut my own hair. If Sally Beauty can't do this, a robot can't. Did you? You cut your own hair with anything? What do you think of my haircut? I did it myself.

Oh. Wow. Well, you have curly hair, so it's easy to like. Did you use a flow-bee? No, what? I forgot about the vacuum. I just used the clippers. Oh. Wow. Well, you have curly hair, so it's easy to like. Did you use a flow bee? No, what? I forgot about the vacuum. I just used the clippers. Oh, wow. The clippers are like an eight guard. And then I trim my bangs.

My bangs? Bangs. Bangs. Well, to be fair, eight. It's bangs. It's a girl. Not the bangs. I don't know if you have bangs. Not the bangs. You have bangs. You just have curly bangs.

What do you call them? Bangs. My front hair? The just has curly bangs. I guess, yeah. What do you call them? Up bangs. My front hair? The front of your hair. My front hair? No, it's just your hair. But what do you call the hair that goes over my forehead? That's awesome, his face so delicately.

Like it just. Thank you. No, this is down bangs, he has up bangs. But sometimes they're down. Maybe if Nick straightened his hair, they could be bangs. I think they're bangs if you want them to be bangs. Thank you.

You're welcome. You did a good job though. I could never cut my hair. It would terrify me. I cut my hair. You do? I do. All the time?

All the time. I haven't had a haircut because I just, it's the most efficient thing ever. I go like this, I pull my hair to the front and it's when it's wet and I look at it and I say, oh, those parts are already dry even though I just got out of the shower. Cut, cut.

And that's all I do. And then immediately my hair looks healthy. Wow. Truly. Anyways. Well, reality TV. You know who's not making healthy decisions? Potentially Golden Batch for casting.

Another one. Biles. Again, again, again. Another day, another restraining order. Another one. So what's going on here? They knew about this? So Guy, he's the trauma surgeon, ER surgeon.

ER doctor. ER doctor. Is he an orthopedic? No, Nick. He's an ER doctor. He's an ER doctor. Give us a little backstory here. So the ex-wife of Guy Gansert

filed for a temporary protection order against the contestant in 2021 before withdrawing the application three weeks later, according to court records obtained by E. Of course, the world finds out, people are making TikToks, people are making it a thing, tabloids are coming out. He releases a statement saying,

"'This was an unfortunate situation that occurred during an incredible stressful time for me and my former spouse and was ultimately resolved when she voluntarily dismissed her request for a protective order. Together we crafted a resolution that was agreeable to both parties. Meg's wife and I were married for 34 years, and in that time, we had four children who we raised together in deeply love. They are my greatest accomplishment. My divorce was extremely difficult for me

and led me to a very low point in my life. As a result, I acted in a way that does not represent who I am. The past few years have caused me to conduct a deep personal evaluation, and I will always continue to work to improve Myself and I'm so appreciative of the Golden Bachelorette and bachelor nation as well as my family who have been exceptionally supportive during the most difficult times My life his wife alleges that the physician had sent her text messages Trying to reconcile then flipping to anger and that he later physically tried to threaten her According to an emergency motion obtained by people the order was never put into place before it was dismissed. Well, and then a source close to production said,

We learned from Mr. Ganzer during our vetting process that an application for a temporary protective order was filed against him from his ex-wife after a disagreement, but confirmed that it was never granted as Mr. Ganzer's ex-wife voluntarily dismissed the application shortly after filing. So they knew of it while casting. Didn't we just learn from Emily Baker that especially a temporary one is incredibly easy to get. The temporary is more easy. The temporary is easier. And she filed for a temporary one.

For a temporary. I still kind of feel like that should be a red flag even if somebody has filed an attempt to go through. 100%. Honestly, canceling it to me is a bigger red flag. I mean, listen, we don't know the details. Divorces are terrible. I can't imagine what it's like for a guy or anyone

with four kids to have a marriage end, but to your point, it's just like for the sake, maybe you don't get to go on TV. Yeah, just for the sake of the well-being of the Bachelorette because exactly what happened with Jen, she ended up picking the guy and then come to find out, like, what if something happened to her down the line? That's definitely not a conversation

that's gonna come up during the filming of. No. It's hard not to talk about your embarrassing moments, let alone like somebody filed a restraining order against me. Before you pick me, just so you know, my ex-wife filed a restraining order. You know. Yeah, and in this most recent episode too,

they talked about his divorce and. Maybe for all we know, it was a really bad day and he didn't do anything that deserved a restraining order and she was really mad and he was really mad and that's why she declined to know, declined to follow through. But to that point, we don't know the details and like you're kind of putting Joan into bad position. I think regardless of him being casted,

they did have that conversation about his divorce and maybe it was cut. I feel like that'd be insanely crazy for him to cut it. But that is something I would want to know before I am married to someone. That like you're, like that is something you include. Yeah, like what happened here. Why, yes, like this happened, this, it was, you know,

I wanted to see him be like, I acted outside of myself. I wasn't, you know, like the divorce, it really broke me. This happened, this happened. She ended up like temporarily, like that's the story we should have had. Yeah, Joan needs to be able to make an informed decision. So she needs to have all the information in front of her and then she can decide if it was what it was.

And it's like, if he doesn't tell her, then is production also not gonna tell her? And she's just like never gonna know until she gets out to the real world. And then the world like that's fucked up. It's also weird cause it's like, are all of these surgences of like restraining orders on reality TV, is that because we're casting bad people

or is that because we're realizing that they've casted bad people? I don't know. I mean, listen, I think you were gonna cast 30-some men who have a long life and, you know, like all these, everyone has, I guess, skeletons in their closet. But then even the Devin of it all, he's younger. Devin seems clearly a bad guy.

We're not calling Guy a bad guy. We don't know anything. We're simply just saying that whatever happened, maybe he shouldn't be going on TV and in a situation like that, given the stakes and given what Joan has put herself through and has signed up for. I can't imagine this conversation coming up.

You just don't have that deep of conversations. And if you do, it's generally aired. And so, maybe we'll get a chance to talk to Joan at some point, maybe she'll let us know that it actually did come up and they chose not to air it and she felt safe and secure, I don't know. I think that's different than the Devon of it all. I think in general though, like across the board,

Bachelor, Love is Blind, like, where are they finding these men? That's what I'm saying, yeah. I think you guys have a very kind of, no offense, naive outlook on how it takes to cast these people and like these people's lives or whatever. And I just, like, I think it's, as we talked with Emily Baker,

unfortunately, this shit isn't easy to find. You know, it's state by state. You really have to know what you're looking for, unfortunately, sometime, which is, forget about TV. It's a scary for anyone out there if you wanna do a background check on people you're dating. It's not easy to find the stuff. And it is super easy to file a temporary restraining order.

Not everyone that's filed maybe has legitimacy it needs, but most do, and I don't know. I think, unfortunately, we all have shit in our past. I just think it's really hard for these companies to, again, it's not just the background checks you're doing on the people that you're putting on the shows, it's all the people you had to do background checks with the people you didn't put on the show.

Which is why, you know, like shows like The Bachelor, like why they started releasing casts early, they literally do it because they are hoping the power of the internet finds things they couldn't find. That is why they're releasing cast photos prior to the filming of Night One. Is it a perfect system? No, I'm not defending it.

It's just like, I just think it's a little naive for people to act as if they would do a better job. Well, that's why I was asking that. Is it because they're casting bad people or is it because us as a culture of audiences are like, well, let's expose anybody that we know anything about? That's the thing, I think it's more of that. I think we act as if we're these perfect people

with no past and we've never had to apologize for anything. And again, the restraining order is obviously another level, but forgetting about restraining order, yeah, that's how we watch reality TV. We watch reality TV because we like to judge everybody else and it's easy for us to judge ourselves by watching people who represent us, remind us of someone or someone we dated.

And it's very easy to, we don't sit there and watch reality TV and be like, yeah, I did that one time. It's like, it's more like who would ever do that? And you forget about the time you did it 15 years ago or whatever. Yeah, I mean, so I think we love highlighting poor behavior in people rather than the shows casting

a bunch of horrible people. It's reality TV and reality TV is trying to cast imperfect people. They're trying to find that line between drama and mess and like someone who actually is still safe to be around. It's imperfect but I don't think it's as easy. What I do know and I feel confident in saying that a lot of like conspiracy theorists fans love to believe,

I don't think there's a deliberate attempt. They were transparent about the guy. We knew about it, we put them on anyways. I just don't think in other cases where they don't know about it, it's some sort of Machiavellian, they knew about it and they put them on anyways. I really, I don't think that happens.

You're just talking too much liability and too much money for these things from a business standpoint. I don't think they're doing that. I don't think they're knowably casting people for some of these behaviors that we come to find later on. I confidently say that knowing how reality TV is made. And I just saw an interview the other day,

I couldn't find who said it, but I think it was on Jimmy Kimmel or Jimmy Fallon, where she said, I wish we approached people with curiosity and empathy instead of judgment. I can't find exactly who it was, but it was someone on Jimmy Kimmel. It's interesting to what you're saying.

Was it Madeleine Klein? I don't think so. But it was interesting. Where her as a public persona was like, why aren't we approaching people with curiosity and empathy? But we jumped to judgment. I know restraining order is a different level, but it's an interesting conversation.

It is, but you know. Well, and with Morality TV, which kind of makes me think about the Shannon of it all I I was gonna ask you guys. I think I crack the code on Bravo Nation and what fans expect of their housewives the Bravo because here you are Shannon Shannon went on watch what happens live last week. She looks great. By the way, she did look good. Yeah Yeah, like damn face lift is face lifting either way Thanks, John Jansen.

Worth it. Hashtag worth it. And last week we had Tamra issue a quote, basically like, hey, I don't, I'm shocked by the audience's response. I'm kind of shocked by the edit. I would have thought someone who has a drinking problem and had a DUI and a hit and run

would be the villain of the season, basically what she was trying to say. And whether it's Tamra or Alexis, who was on the red carpet with John Jansen last week, or Joel Kim Booster, who retracted his statement, we'll get into that for a second. And I could be wrong, but I'm curious, Sierra and Justin, who have been Bravo fans for a long time,

I don't know if they've been a Bravo fan for a year, but I feel like I've cracked the code. And I feel, I'm shocked that Sierra and Justin, who have been Bravo fans for a long time, I've only been a Bravo fan for a year, but I feel like I've cracked the code. And I feel I'm shocked that so many housewives don't seem to understand because Tamara and Alexis, even Heather, basically everyone I see is acting confused as to why Shannon's getting the treatment that she's getting. And I think when it comes to Bravo Nation specifically,

especially housewives, is that most of its fans, again, we are all imperfect people. And what do we want our Housewives to be? We want them to be authentic, we want them to be messy, because what are we? We're all so messy. And I think we love watching Housewives who have these very interesting lies,

but at the end of the day, what they are is imperfect. And I feel like every Housewife's best moment is when they're on the come-up. You mentioned, you had a conspiracy theory not too long ago that's like some housewives get a DUI because it elevates them or makes them relevant. But I don't think it's so much the DUI, I think that's the vehicle, but it's the come up.

Because we all fuck up at some point in our life and we all want people to give us grace and forgiveness and we all want a chance at redemption to work on ourselves. And that's what we love most about our reality TV stars, is when they really fuck up and they fix their shit and they come through on the other side, because that gives us a little bit of hope for when we fuck up and we do the shit

that we wish we didn't do and we hope that people give us grace. That's when we love our reality TV stars. And it seems like the rest of the cast doesn't anticipate this or know this. Everyone else on the OC cast is trying to shit on Shannon's come up, you know what I'm saying? Like she's trying to fix herself, work on herself,

hold herself accountable, and she's seemingly doing that. Everyone along the way is trying to say, no, you suck, Shannon, no, you're bad, Shannon, no, you're messy, Shannon, and all the fans, we want no part of it because it just seems mean and bully behavior, and I'm just kind of shocked that the rest of the cast doesn't understand kind of like the blueprint

of a Bravo housewife, where it's like, when someone's on the come up, like let them, like it's their time to shine. And like if, and you can maybe critique their come up, but like what, I don't know. It seems like they're jumping on top of Shannon's come up and trying to beat her when she's down and not trying to give her credit

when she deserves some credit. And that's what we hate, honestly, so much about all the interactions with Shannon. It's not that we condone her drinking or think she's not messy anymore or that she wasn't wrong for a DUI. We wanna give this woman a chance to work on herself or fix her shit and no one in her circle wants to even give her a fucking chance. You got Tamara laughing at

her. It's fucking crazy. We got Alexis asking, when she did that red carpet with John Jansen last week, she was like, why don't people feel bad for me? I wish I was given an interview. I've been like, do you have five seconds? I can explain. I wish she said that to me. I'm honestly confused by this behavior. It's just like, what don't these people understand? I've been watching Housewives for like a year and I feel like I figured it out. What is so hard to understand to let this woman live?

I don't know. I will say I was talking to someone in the Bravo sphere recently who said, Bravo loves the middle ground. And this kind of made sense to me where it was like, if your life is doing good, if you're not, like if you're healthy, if you have a healthy relationship, they want to break you down.

So they want to like, say your husband's doing something or there's someone cheating or whatever, but then if you're below the middle ground, say you had a DUI or you did something criminal activity, they want to bring you up. So they're gonna give you the redemption arc. So it's like they want to bring everybody to this middle ground so that nobody looks too good

or too bad. On the same playing field. And meanwhile, Shannon's still down bad because you have the Johns Anson's and Lexus of the world and people wanna see her get back to neutral and none of her peers are letting her. And Joel can boost her. And Joel can boost her, which by the way, Joel,

like love you, but if you're gonna issue a statement where you wish someone ill on their life and you wish them nothing but horrible, horrible things, don't fucking backtrack that shit, man. Own that shit. Like really, his statement backtracking this? He looks like a fool. He does.

He looks like an absolute fool to post this. I mean, to originally say, I hope you suffer and like brings in her children and like, says awful, terrible things about someone and then to release the statement saying, go ahead with an Instagram story. So basically, a la the way he's communicating, he posts more stories, two parts.

The first part says, the housewives of it all, I've had a lot of time to think and process about this and I wish I could say that I was not the guy who posted those statements on Instagram. But the fact is that I am. I let on an on-set conflict cloud my judgment and accessed the darkest, ugliest part of myself and said things I don't stand by or even believe and I am deeply sorry that I allowed my worst self

to cloud my judgment. Part 2 says, I know Shannon has had an extraordinarily hard year as she has bravely shared and as someone who has struggles of their own that have spilled over into work. I should have had more grace for her in that moment. I'm deeply sorry for the ways in which I have made Shannon's road towards stability more difficult and hope that she makes it out on the other side of the stronger, healthier, and with the love that she deserves in her life.

I regret making this part of the story of our show as I'm deeply proud of the work myself, the ladies, and the crew put into making it. I hope he was forced to do this only, because it's just like, again, for him to say what he did. Yeah, it's like the damage is done. Like it's like you can't. Are you that react?

Like to me, I don't, I was such a big fan of him. Now I'm just like, you're just a reactive, emotional, soft person. Bully. This is the PR, this is the cleanup. A thousand percent. But to me, is the PR, this is the cleanup. A thousand percent. But to me, short of him, and short of Bravo

insisting him do this, just fucking stand on it and own that you said that. I mean, I hope Shannon doesn't forgive him. I hope she's, I wouldn't. She has no reason to. She never works with him again. She already spoke out about it on her Vicky and Shannon live show where she briefly addressed it

and was like, it's confusing because you were crying your eyes out to me the same day like the night before and then you went on your Instagram. So I'm sure for her it's like, this man's not reliable. But him even saying that it's like his issues bleeding into his work, it kind of gives like reactive, catty, drunk girl that's like, I fucking got it.

And then like, yeah, it got reprimanded. And now it's like, yeah, you have a show that's gonna be coming out soon. Nobody's gonna forget about this moment. So you're gonna have to put out this fake apology that you probably don't genuinely mean, but your job and the show continuing on depends on it. I mean, I also honestly think that he probably thought posting that

he was gonna get all these people being like, oh my God, spill, what's the, let me see the videos. And if people were like, what the fuck, this is so rude, this is messed up, like why would you say this about someone? She's art, she's had, and then he was like, oh, let me apologize, this is not. I apologize like two weeks later too. Yeah, like y'all didn't take this how I thought you would,

so now I'm the bad guy and I don't wanna be the bad guy. And you didn't forget about it, cause he probably still getting messages about it, and that's why two weeks later, it's like, all right, I guess, Hail Mary. Yeah, and an apology on an Instagram story too. Classic. Please.

Also, listen, if you guys are so right about Shannon, let it play out. Let us see it. Like if you're so right about Shannon, just shut your mouth, support her, and then when she fucks up, everyone is insisting that she inevitably is going to do, then let her do that.

But what you're doing now just makes everyone looks like a bully. Just look like a bully. Even Heather, for example. Heather, who I've been wanting to defend the past couple weeks. I know exactly what Shannon meant when she's like, my life's bleeding into a reality TV show.

And then all of her peers, right, she's like, well, isn't this our lives, Shannon? We're so real and authentic. No, Heather. Last, what, two weeks like, well, isn't this our lives, Shannon? Like we're so real and authentic. No, Heather, last, what, two weeks ago, you, and again, I supported Heather in this, because like, listen, yes, do I want my housewives to be authentic? But like, come on, let's not be fucking crazy

to expect that every single bit of these people's lives, they owe us to put it on camera. That's fucking crazy. This isn't a fucking Truman show. It's a reality TV show. Things start and stop. Let's not be fucking crazy. And which is why, Heather, I'm fine with you

having little sidebar conversation with your husband because your marriage of 30 plus years and your kids is more important goes beyond the authenticity of OC. So when Shannon's having a mental fucking breakdown and feel like every aspect of her life is being displayed on TV, maybe you don't get to righteously be like, isn't this all of our fucking lives?

I mean, give me a fucking break. Also, I cannot imagine how Shannon felt in that moment when she was so down bad. she was so in the trenches, she was so broken, she was not well, and she goes to Heather just looking to vent to someone, to talk to someone, and then Heather turning around being like, well, now I feel used. Feel used for what, being a sounding board?

Listening to your friend who's going through fucking hell, and you're gonna be like, well, I feel used. Jen hit the nail with the hammer on the head of the hammer. She hit something. She hit something, and Jen was right, being like, well, I don't wanna be your friend if that's how you treat friendships. That's what you think friendships are?

Also, Heather needs new friends. She should not be hanging out with these people. You have to differentiate the difference between if somebody's coming to confide in you and they're your best friend, like, you have to understand that they may say something different in the public. Also, I do want to back this up 100%

because it's Shannon going to Heather and being like a good friend of mine, a few weeks later calls me and he's like, do you really like not think Jon heard anything? And she was like, you know what, like, I don't know. Like, that's a good point, but I don't know. And then to go on Jeff Lewis and him ask her that, and she'd be like, I haven't thought about it.

Because a friend of hers brought this to her attention. Shannon didn't come up with this theory all on her own. And also Shannon doesn't owe the public and on a public forum to say the same thing that she would say in confidence to her close friend. I want to say too that like, to your point, Nick, that all these other housewives, this is three months of their life.

The DUI is more than three months of Shannon's life. Exactly. Before and after. So it's like that's where Shannon's facing, like, her actual life outside of the show versus just the three months of them filming together. And these women that want to talk about being authentic and whatnot, sorry, Heather and Tamara specifically, I'm like, do you know how terrible it looks

that you go on somebody's birthday trip and within moments of checking into your room, you're already putting together a to-do list or specifically, I'm like, do you know how terrible it looks that you go on somebody's birthday trip and within moments of checking into your room, you're already putting together a to-do list of how to ruin her night, how to ruin her trip? Yeah. Can we stop pretending that Shannon's paying for this fucking trip?

Truly. Like, come on. This is not, have we moved on from pretending that WWF or WWE is real? It's not, like, come on. No, truly, the scarves. Bravo. And it's Housewives, stop fucking doing that. Yeah, the scarves. Like, come on. Bravo. And it's Housewives. Stop fucking doing that.

Oh, if she can avoid a trip to fucking England, she can afford to pay John Jansen. No, Bravo's paying for it. Yeah, I was like doing the math in my head, like 400 times like six scarves. It's a couple grand. It's a hundred thousand dollar trip. You're not doing the most.

And besides the fact, I've watched like Influencer things where it's like they're being gifted. I was gonna say, I'm sure. If it's branded, if there gifted. I was gonna say, I'm sure. If it's branded, if there's signage on a TV show, it's been organized by the fucking show. When it's like, oh, what hotel are they staying at? Oh, that one, oh, okay.

And then it was gifted. When it's like, when any brand is highlighted. They showed the JetBlue first class. Gifted. Heather talking on the thing. Gifted. Not Shannon. Jesus, come on people, this is amateur hour.

I thought we're professionals watching this shit. God. I really hope, I mean, we got the teaser for next episode. I really hope Jen just stands up for herself against Tamra because this whole like her digging in Ryan's past is, like, it feels really messy. I don't like it. I mean, like, I think Jen can make her own decisions. If she's with a bad guy, she's with a bad guy,

and she's the one who's gonna have to deal with the consequences, not Tamra. Maybe so, but I am frustrated with Jen for bringing this person on our television set. He doesn't deserve it. He sucks, for sure. But he's not my man. He's not Tamra's man sucks, for sure. But he's not my man. He's not Tamra's man.

I get it. And you're right about that. But we do have to watch it. And we do have, like, it is hard to have empathy for Jen when we want to have empathy for this person. Jen's easy to have empathy for. We want her to have a better life, but she is making it very difficult on herself.

And it's just hard to root. It's hard to root for someone who refuses to help themselves. Yeah. It is, it is. She's blinded, she's giving Brittany from Salt Lake. Yeah, well, let's say I wanna hear Jen talk about her situation outside of the Housewives, outside of pressure to talk.

Yeah. But wait, what about the smoking gun text message? That was awesome. That was so freaking awesome. When Shannon was like, this about the smoking gun text message? That was awesome. That was so freaking awesome. When Shannon was like, this is a smoking fucking gun. Honestly, I'm- We were like, we stood up in the living room. Shannon needed something.

Shannon needed something because no one's believing her, no one has her back, and to finally be like, I'm not the liar, like, look at this, like, here is proof. It made me so happy for her. Actually, Zach, go ahead and play Alexis's interview with John Zanssen last week Any regrets anything about that was shared any regrets? Well, I think Lex regrets sharing anything about the videos Well you do actually I'm the one that

I don't have any regrets. Well, you do actually. I'm the one that has the videos and nothing has ever come out of my mouth that I was ever going to show them to anybody. That was never a possibility. The funny thing is I thought I did that off camera. Like you film for 12 hours and I went with my girlfriends. My good girlfriends. You think you would do something and then it's like oh shoot the cameras were rolling. I didn't even remember I Didn't me I I told the friends about them bullshit No, you didn't and you said it several different times several different people your good girlfriends that you haven't seen in five years Do you have any empathy for Shannon so long interview Wait on a show now with you have to have it does anyone have empathy for me wake

you know I had to be on your show just lost my mom wasn't eating wasn't sleeping was barely getting out of bed film to show and still put on my don't pay needs to go film film ex-girlfriend which is just as hard so I'm tired of hearing about that I have I have sympathy for her but at the same time it's like that was my next question Do a really freaking hard job and I got beat down the entire I wish I was there when she's like why don't people have sympathy for me? I've been like well I can help John if you're listening buddy if you want a platform if you need it if you need to Know him him saying he's not can't. No, him saying.

He's not gonna come on. John Jansen saying he doesn't have a voice is a fucking lie. Cop out. It's a cop out. You were on an ITM. You had an interview. You have a voice. You have the option to come in and talk to these people,

talk to Shannon face to face. You don't want to. You don't want to do that. You want to feed it to Alexis and have Alexis go and do your dirty work. That's the truth of it. You can fight that all you want, but that's the truth of it. And then she's all you want, but that's the truth of it.

And then she's embarrassed, where she's like, I didn't regret, no, you did regret something. No, you didn't. So now he's like patronizing her too. And. Coaching. Coaching. Coaching. Like Shannon said, he loves. Alexis, no, we don't have sympathy for you.

I am sorry your mom passed away, but apparently you chose to film. That was an option. You could have grieved your mother longer if you want to you opted and good for you to Move on and film with someone you didn't have to as a friend by the way For someone who's like an og housewife like Shannon like she is arguably. Oh see housewives You're just a fucking friend and her being like I tried to come and film amicably I tried you're you're suing her.

You're actively threatening her with these videos and to be like, I forgot. I didn't know that the cameras were recording. You said it to several different women in several different occasions, constantly. But the laws have to stop. You forgot every single time that the camera was right there in front of your face

every time you forgot. Didn't the man offer you to pay you the salary of not going on this show, like in a post for you going on this show, so therefore you could have not, and healed at home, been with your future husband, but instead you chose to come on this show and then now you wanna garner sympathy from us

because it didn't go the way you thought it was going to. That would have been a loan. Which is so crazy. Oh yeah, because was he gonna give her the money or loan her the money for not going on? Careful. careful. I don't even think anyone in the court of public opinion really even gives a shit,

like if John gave her or loaned her the money, because I think, listen, when you're in a romantic relationship and money is exchanged like that, especially when you're paying for plastic surgery for your partner, I just, I think most people don't really care. My sister has said this for years now. Anytime you loan anyone money, you do not expect it back.

You just don't. You're giving someone money. You might say this is a loan, but you can't be like, hey, where's that money? Hey, where's that money? Hey, where's that money? I mean, you just have to be like, all right, I'm gonna give you these $2,000, $5,000,

$75,000 and like, fuck it, whatever. Like, you can't to be like, all right, I'm gonna give you these $2,000, $5,000, $75,000, and like, fuck it, whatever. Like, you can't expect it back. You can. Unless you notarize the contract. I get what you're saying. Like, you can't, like. I don't doubt that there was a conversation. It clearly wasn't official as John's trying to imply,

and maybe John wasn't like, happy birthday, I'm paying for it, but like, I just don't think we care. No. Whether she technically owes it to him or not, I'm still team Shannon. Even if John proves that like there was a conversation where Shannon's like, yeah, I mean, can you loan me this? I guess I really don't care anymore. Yeah, I don't either.

I'm just glad that Shannon was able to prove that Alexis was a part of the original lawsuit and that she's most likely behind pushing this lawsuit as well, pretending to be this like victim in the situation. That's like, it's just so hard because I just really want Johnny Jay's name to be cleared and it's like, if you both just shut up, we wouldn't be talking about him.

So many Bravo storylines seem to be pushed by lawsuits. Yeah. Right now, yeah. We should. We should. Yes. Ugh. Justin?

What's wrong with Justin?? Brianna's favorite show. No, this was a good episode. It opened with the whole sitcom montage. Oh yeah, that was good. Milvarn and Shirley, love that from Milwaukee. Yeah, that was fun. Milwaukee, yeah, how did you feel? I felt great about it.

Yeah, Milvarn and Shirley, a very popular sitcom in the 60s to girlfriends working at Miller Brewing, or was it Blatz, or one of the? Miller Valley Beer Shows. Miller Valley Beer Caves. Miller Valley Beer, okay, well that was great. Which Nick has never been, even though he has. I've never been to the caves. Why?

You haven't tried the Dom Perignon of beer? Oh, the Champagne of beers? Yeah, Miller High Life? I worked at Miller Brewing as an intern. Did you? I might have been to the caves, actually I might have. I don't think it was that big of a deal. I don't think it's as big of a deal as they made it out to be.

It wasn't a selling point tour as it is now. I love a caves. Actually, I might have. I don't think it was that big of a deal. I don't think it's as big of a deal as they made it out. It wasn't a selling point tour as it is now. I love a cave. Yeah, period. Absolutely. How can we get through to Brittany? Sweet, sweet Brittany. Who said they were team Brittany here?

Probably me, probably me. I am. Why? I like her. When she went after Braumann, that was not cool. She was just deflecting. Take out the Brahman of it all, the whole love situation, I feel like she's in love.

But with the wrong man. And she's used to toxic treatment. I don't know who old Brittany is, but she's old enough to know better. And listen, everyone goes through relationship struggles, but if you're going to constantly vent to your friends or just people around you, even if they're not your friends, about your messy life and your poor decisions,

and if many of those conversations are similar to the ones you had, I don't know, a week ago or a month ago, and you kinda contradict yourself, you deserve some criticism, and you don't get to attack someone else's marriage just because you didn't like their line of questioning. I thought Brawa's comments were direct, sure.

But fair. I'm not even saying Brawa's marriage is perfect. I'm sure like every other marriage they have their own shit they're dealing with. But Brawa doesn't show up every fucking day and talk about her relationship or vent about her relationship or cry to her talk about her relationship or vent about her relationship or cry to her friends

about her relationship. And she is seemingly dating a terrible human being. It is also just like, I feel like it's hard to back her when usually you can be like, ah, he's just like fucking with my head. Like he's just like doing one thing and saying another or like whatever, whatever. He is very much like friendship, friendship, friendship.

Hey bestie, hey BFF, this is a friendship, hey friend, hey. Like he is very much friend zoning her. Well then she's, we're officially broken up. But never told him. But she hasn't told him. Never told him that. So she's not officially broken up. You know what I'm saying?

Like I think it is, like I'm sorry, when you give someone who doesn't deserve a chance an endless amount of chances and there's no redeeming quality about how they treat you, then it's going to beg questions like, why are you giving this person so many opportunities? Like, that is Brittany's fault, not Brawn's fault for bringing it up.

And so when she asks a very fair question, it's just like, is it him or is it like, who he is? And she obviously finds that being very triggering and very offensive. And then she goes after Browin in a way that was just not right or fair. It was kind of iconic though, the switch up. You're talking about someone's husband

versus somebody's fling. And Browin being like, honey, you can't question my marriage if you don't even know my husband's name. That was iconic. And she was also like, let's talk about it. You wanna talk about my marriage? It's perfect. So great.

I think it was like an iconic argument. I'm not saying I supported one or the other, but her being, what's his name? I mean, it's classic about it. You wanna talk about my marriage? It's perfect. So great. Let's do it. I think it was like an iconic argument. I'm not saying I supported one or the other, but her being, what's his name? I mean, it's classic housewives. I mean, listen, it was Brittany and Browen saying, hey, we belong. This was their belong moment in terms of housewives. Yes.

Nick, to your point, I feel like where Brittany went wrong is like, you can be in love with the wrong man. That sucks for you, it really does. But nobody can fault you for being in love with somebody who you shouldn't be in love with. Sometimes people fall in love. Where she's going wrong is, we all have that one friend who keeps breaking up

with her boyfriend or her partner, but the problem is she keeps bringing her friends into it, and her friends are devoting all of their time to this story. I mean, that is just classic toxic relationship syndrome. I feel like we've all been there where you're like, oh my God, he did this, he did this, he did this, and then your friends are like, break up with him, and you're like,

well, actually we're back together, and we're so in love, and like, let's go have dinner together, let's go to the movies and hang out, but act normal, because like, we're good now. And I'm sorry, like, you know, Brittany is over the age of 50, is that safe to say? I don't know, she's over the age of 40, I don't know how old she is, but again,

like at some point you have to stop acting like a 22 year old, and when you don't, you need tough feedback. I mean, the problem with Brittany is she hasn't surrounded herself with people up into this point in her life that have sat her down and said stop this behavior. I mean, at this point in Brittany's life,

100% of her problems are her problems. They just are. You don't get to be that old and make these types of choices and these types of mistakes with these types of problems and not have to look in the mirror. You just, I'm sorry.

Like she is giving 21 year old girl dealing with fuck boys. I see it the same as like Jen from OC. Where I feel like maybe she was in like this controlling relationship before. Or like she was taken care of and she never had to mature on her own and now she's grown and having to do it. But there's plenty of resources out there.

She has enough of friends pointing out this behavior. Brittany seems like an intelligent, self-aware person most of the time when she's not talking about her relationships. At some point you have to stop playing the victim in your own story and start asking yourself if maybe I can make different choices.

And Brittany is a broken record. Meredith strikes again with her rumors, but she's not spreading rumors. Not spreading rumors, Meredith. She's just relaying the message to everyone else in the group. Which is called gossip. Whitney didn't want to hear it from Meredith,

so she had to tell everyone else so that they would. Yes. Which also, to clarify, Al Ali Baba and AliExpress, Ali Baba is catered to wholesale business versus AliExpress is more catered to consumer individual. And again, when Heather brings this up to Whitney, she is again speaking as if Whitney is allegedly doing something horrible

when Heather also admits to just being the one relaying the message, and it's just like, why are you having this conversation with Whitney as if it's a matter of fact, when it's clearly not a matter of fact, it's a matter of opinion. No, I think Heather actually navigated that conversation quite well.

I think it was very much like, this is what Meredith came and told me, and like, this is, I don't think she was saying like, these are facts, I think she was just saying like what Meredith said like could, that could be a stain on your business. But last week's episode when she was doing what Meredith was doing, which is like also gossiping

and also relaying the gossip while saying I'm not gossiping. But she's relaying it to the person. Yeah, she's going straight to it. If she went to Angie and was like Angie, like did you hear about Whitney's business? Like maybe you should say something. Maybe we don't know the order of it, but the first time I heard out of Heather's mouth

was in her private confessional. So she said it to us, the audience, and she talked about Whitney's business, us, the audience, and accused her. That would have been after. You know ITMs. I know, but I'm just saying, you're still gossiping. If you're gonna-

She is, well, and to your- You just are. I'm just saying, fine's you're still gossiping. You're like if you're gonna she is one you're just are That's great. I'm the same fine. She talked to Whitney. I just I think she's still gossip also to your point They saw the confessional after this conversation would have like happened allegedly So then it's like you would think that her saying after the fact this is damaging information It's like you know what I got I got it wrong. I shouldn't be you know and she chose not to that's fine She you know Heather wanted a housewife She wanted I shouldn't be, and she chose not to, and that's fine. Heather wanted a housewife, she wanted to do her job, and just because you do your job,

like, we recognize that Tamara does her job. You still get to get criticized, because doing her job makes her more money, and if she wants to choose money over, I don't know, us thinking that she's not messy, or she has a character above a certain level, then fine too that's choice that these women make as housewives. Yeah it was sad though because like this is the Laverne and

Shirley of it all with Whitney and Heather is supposed to be them coming back together because they used to be bad weather which was like the whole best friend duo bit thing and like now they're together but then Heather and like Meredith are kind of sabotaging that at the same time. Did we miss them making up? No so that's the thing that they always go back and forth of like, we're best friends. And then it's like, we hate each other. Yeah, I was a little confused. There was a lot of this episode,

I felt like there was a bit of a glitch in the matrix. It was. I felt like they were trying to force a bit of a storyline. Like it didn't make sense to me that Whitney was so upset with Lisa for not coming to the cave expedition, only to find out that her friend ended up going with Lisa to the curling thing and then that Meredith went with Whitney to the cave thing. It's just like, wait, I thought it was team Lisa,

Meredith and how, you know, it just, it just seemed like in the, I don't know. And then like Whitney pretended to be fake mad at Melee. She pretended to be mad at Melee, but she clearly wasn't that mad. It's just like, it felt like in the middle of the episode, they were trying to force a storyline. It is the matrix. That didn't really add up. Yeah, no, it felt like in the middle of the episode, they were trying to force a storyline. It is the matrix.

That didn't really add up. Yeah, no, when you say that it's a housewife is doing housewife, like it's housewives housewifing, whatever you said before. I feel like Whitney's the one doing it in this episode. I feel like to me, Heather was not gossiping. I felt like she was doing the right thing by going to her friend Whitney to tell her, you know,

Meredith's spreading some damaging rumors about your business, but I feel like Whitney announcing it in the Sprinter van after she said she wouldn't announce it in the Sprinter van was her housewife. No, but this is canon. So this is canon for Salt Lake City where every Sprinter van, there's gotta be something that happened.

So like the women know that they're doing this because even like season three reunion, they entered in a Sprinter van. So it's like, if you're ever in a Sprinter van, you know something's gonna happen as the cast. Also, I'm sorry, I'm very, again, Team Whitney here, because like when you get fed a rumor about you that is triggering, the person telling you the rumor

doesn't get to ask you not to defend yourself. You don't get to be like, don't tell anyone. She didn't say don't tell anyone, she said don't do it in public. You don't get to pick the time or the place in which that person gets to defend yourself. You don't get to be like, don't tell anyone. She didn't say don't tell anyone. She said don't do it in public. You don't get to pick the time or the place in which that person gets to defend himself either. When the entire people are sitting, when the whole room of people who have been

talking shit about you enter in the same room, that's the perfect time to bring it up. Let's talk about it right now. Yeah, I don't think you don't, like you can ask, but like, you know, and no one does. None of us would. We would all be like, no, fuck it, I'm gonna bring it up now.

I don't, yeah. The crazy thing to me was Angie K going against Lisa at the dinner and then Lisa being like, bringing up her daughter essentially. Oh yeah. Like that was wild. That was wild.

What was wild is that everyone, when Lisa brought up her daughter, I really like respected that all the, it seemed like the rest of the cast was like, oh, you fucked up. Like you don't get to do that, the too far, not cool. It was also just like a weird fucking argument to throw in there.

It's like, go call your daughter. Like, of course. Okay. Like, sorry, I get off the phone with you when my daughter's calling me. After an hour conversation. After, I don't care if it's five minutes, if my daughter's like,

hey mom, sorry Lisa Barlow, I have to go. Yeah. 100% of the time, we are going to prioritize our daughter over literally everyone, including our coworkers. Yeah, so that felt weird that Lisa was like, why don't you just go call Elektra? That was the closest thing you're ever gonna get to an immediate apology from Lisa.

Yeah, Angie's clap back was iconic too though. What was her clap back? I'm a responsible mother who pays attention to my child. Period. Yes. No name drop of the child. She just said that. My child. Yeah, that was a crazy.

I felt like the fact that Mary was the one being like, I feel like you two love each other. It was very just off brand and I loved it. And then the second Brittany spoke, she was like. Oh, yeah. When she rolls her eyes at Brittany. It's like, sound talking. It's so good.

It makes sense though, Brittany filled the slot that Whitney had with Mary. Like Mary would always get irritated by anything Whitney did or said. So now Mary loves Whitney and now she hates Brittany. I feel like there is no one, and I stand by Rihanna saying Salt Lake City is the best franchise because I feel like there is no one like Mary.

There is no, there's no one with humor. There's no one funny on any of the other. Like some of them have like a funny moment, but everything that comes out of Mary's mouth is funny. She was made for reality television. Truly. I will say, I had Chanel Aeon from Dubai. Like she's similar.

Like not the same. I haven't watched enough from Dubai. But like anything Chanel says is like a sound bite that's out of pocket or like whatever. Like it's funny, you know? With a little clap back. Justin, Like it's funny, you know? A little clap back. Justin, you are into fashion, you're into art.

With purple hair. The hot dog bitch. What the fuck was that? Oh my god. Even Mary's like, this is not couture, this is a costume. She's like, the heart was couture. This shit is a costume. I would give Bronwyn five minutes to give me

a history lesson or something, and if she convinced me a big. She did. It was on the runway of Must You Know and I am the only one in design of Must You Know who have it. It was very ugly, I agree. But that's the thing, it's just like if your whole fashion aesthetic or taste

is based off of like red carpet shows or runways. You can't afford this. Or that's not fashion. No, it gets gimmicky, yeah. That's gimmicky, that's commercializing art and fashion, which I guess it's necessary to a certain extent, but if you're barometer, simply it was at a fashion show. There are Mrs. At Fashion shows.

Yeah, all the time. I would give her one five minute in-person conversation. If they convince me, tell me why this is different or good. And if she failed, she failed. If she doesn't, she doesn't. I compare it to Sutton also, because Sutton's entrance to Beverly Hills

was the same, like, I only wear couture, couture, couture, but her couture was good looking. It wasn't a hot dog. Now she's back down to a teddy bear sweatshirt. Yeah, exactly. Clearly loaded. But yeah, that's the thing. It's almost her being loaded just means,

just because you can spend money Doesn't mean it's fashion. On expensive, dumb things doesn't make it cool. Yeah, and I don't blame her for having the outfit. Just wear it on Halloween. Yeah. Yeah.

Can I tell y'all something that pisses me off about my amazing husband? Oh. Oh. He was born when there was black and white TV. Yes, that. But it doesn't really piss me off. Should we keep guessing?

It's white more so. Ooh. That was a Brahmin reference. So, no, it'll be anytime we're watching anything. Ah, yes. Yes. And say there is an argument between, and you're like, oh, this is about to get good. Nick's like, well, I just think that like, because she's saying that, and I'm like, shut up! I can't hear the argument. Connor does that to you.

No, no. Well, I just think well, because she's saying I'm like, but you got to pause it. Look at them. The floor is yours. Please continue. And then they're like, oh, no, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Like, no, we'll watch you hit play.

I just think and it's like, just get through the five minute segment. What is why do you feel like you do that? Do you spoil things too? He's so quiet. He's not gonna speak. But why do you feel like you do that, honey? He wants to feel belonging.

He's giving into the passion. It's just on the tip of my tongue. You write a note? He'll forget if he doesn't say. Because I wanna talk to you. That is not why. No. Wait, question Natalie.

Is there one show that you have to watch and not be interrupted? I mean, it's all of these reality TV shows that it's like, we obviously, it's homework, we've gotta recap them on the show and it's like, these are parts we've gotta pay attention to because we've gotta dissect it. And he's giving me his, I guess,

what he would say on the show. And I'm like, I can't, we can't, this isn't the time for that. We have to finish the argument first. You're as Heather DeBrow, he needs a soundboard. Thank you. Do you know what Danny does? If we're watching something and it starts to get tense,

he'll just mute the TV. That's crazy. And I'm like, hello? He's like, I can't. I'm like, are you kidding me? Then walk away. That is crazy. He just mutes it.

I'm like, no. I'm like, what happened? He's like, now we'll'm like, no. I'm like, what happened? He's like, now we'll never know. I'm like, what's going on? And I just see him sitting in the corner with the remote, and I'm just like, Danny. That's funny. That's crazy.

Speaking of crazy, Love is Blind is crazy, and we're about to get into it with Gillian Turecki and Hannah. Hey, it's getting cooler out there. Fall's approaching. Make sure you have comfortable, cozy sheets on cooler out there. Fall's approaching. Make sure you have comfortable, cozy sheets on your bed and do it with Brooklinen. Brooklinen's super high quality products have been tested and awarded by experts, including Good Housekeeping,

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We obviously love Love is Blind and all the crazy relationship dynamics that happen on it. And so it's always fun to bring in a relationship expert to help break down all these dynamics. And you are well known in that space. You got a new book coming out. It begins with you. It begins with you.

Tell us a little bit about the book and then let's get into Love is Blind. The book was born out of the fact that I went through a lot of trauma a little over 10 years ago with the breakup of my marriage and the death of my mother and all sort of happening at the same time. And I had been working for 20 years working with people,

I was a yoga teacher and worked with people on their pain and even on their relationships. But when the breakup of my marriage happened, that was like, I could not believe it. I was like, how am I here in this position? I just thought, I thought I was gonna do the work. I thought, I loved him. But I always say that before we got married,

so our relationship pre-marriage was about 90% great and 10% not bad. And the thing is, is that that 10% was actually very significant because no relationship is perfect. And then when we got married, that 10% became the 90% and then 90% became the 10%. So it was very difficult. I didn't have the tools, though I thought I did. I was not raised in a family where I was taught or modeled the tools. And when it ended very abruptly, I was devastated, does not even begin to describe it. So I went into a very, very deep, dark night of the soul,

and I had to figure out a way to get myself out of it. And I hired people and I worked with people. And I also really wanted to understand why I was in the position of this happening, going through a divorce, all the societal and cultural conditioning of being a certain age and divorce and all that pain that goes with it. I just wanted to figure it out. And I did with mentors and teachers. And I thought, this is something that I have to figure it out. And I did with mentors and teachers. And I thought, this is something that I have to teach to others. And so part of it was just a way to distract myself.

But I started working with people, couples first, because the couples therapy that he and I had was so bad. And I don't believe, I'm glad I'm not with him. I'm not supposed to be with him. But, and so two things can be true at the same time. And the couples therapy that we had was terrible and I thought there has to be another way because this model doesn't work.

At least in my experience. I know for some people it works. This was bad. And so I thought that I'm gonna do this. This is what I'm actually born to do. And so I started working with hundreds of couples. And then I was like, okay, I wanna work actually with more individuals, women and men looking for

love, some coming out of helping people recover from divorce or heartbreak. And it was like, I just found my calling. And then I know I just knew there was a book in me and people approached me to write the book. And I was like, and I just thought, what if I could, because a book is it begins with you, the nine hard truths about love that will change your life. And I thought, if there were five, 10, nine, like how many principles or core truths would I wanna leave behind for people

of wherever they are, and they're even for happily married people, right? Like, what do I want to leave behind? And so that's what this book is. And so, yeah, I turned a big mess into something very meaningful. What, what made your breakup so difficult for you in the moment that made you think, I can't believe this is happening to me. That's a good question.

You know, I got married to him when I was 38. And so I had this belief that because I'm meeting someone later, I put that in big quotation marks, later in life and not, you know, my early 20s or my mid 20s, just my 20s in general, that that would actually set me up for greater success. And I thought, well, you know, I'm a good person. And I learned that being a good person has nothing to do

with relationship success, actually. I mean, being a good person is important, but it doesn't guarantee you the relationship that you want because you have to have skills and you have to have self-worth and you have to know how to choose the right partner. And that's very important. That's more than half the battle.

And so I just thought my whole blueprint about love was you meet someone, you're compatible, which we were, and you feel good and you're attracted and there's chemistry like, and there's some, a few other things that fall into place. You just get married. Never once did I consider, oh, the way that you were like your childhood and your trauma, my trauma, like that doesn't work. Or never once did I consider like there were certain red flags, if you will, that I ignored. And I didn't have the tools. So what made it so hard was because a marriage only lasted two years. So I would thought, oh, I'm 40 and I'm divorced. No one's going

to want me. That was like the core belief. That was very untrue. But it was a core belief. I'm divorced, you know, the weight that you feel on your shoulders from being divorced, which is absolutely ridiculous because some relationships don't work out and they shouldn't and that is okay. Maybe you should celebrate after a divorce. Because if you're getting divorced from someone, chances are for a very long time before that divorce, you were not happy and you were stressed out. And so if you're finally free from that, isn't that something to celebrate

rather than to walk around feeling shame? And obviously there's a lot to learn because it takes two to tango and it's not 50-50 in terms of what destroys a relationship. But, you know, most cases, both people have to be able to acknowledge the dysfunction that they brought to the relationship that led to its demise, right? A lot of learning to do and a lot of growing up to do.

But yeah, I had these beliefs that I was like, that life was over as opposed to the reality, which was that life was just beginning. Why did you feel like the couples therapy hurt more than it should have helped? Yeah. So the couples therapy, so when I work with people and particularly when I work with couples, I'm very direct and I'm not afraid to take sides. And when I take sides, it's never, I'm never disrespectful at all.

You should never be disrespectful when you're working with people. But sometimes it's one person in the relationship who's causing more friction. And that person has to be aware of that. And in the couples therapy, it was just like, we were not held accountable. And if you're not held accountable, you cannot improve your relationship. If you are not accountable, even if your contribution to whatever's not working is this,

you know, just a little bit, and your partner's is this, you still have to be accountable. And there was no one saying, like, no one being real with us and being like, look, this is how I see it. This is what's going on. And the two of you are acting like kids or whatever, like, this is not cool. And it was just a little too much. Oh, let me translate what you're saying so that this person understands.

It's like, no, you have to, depending on the couple and depending on the issue and depending how intense the issue is and how serious the issue is, you have to be willing to go really deep. I worked with a couple and they were actually in a good place, but they wanted a little brush up on just strengthening their communication skills. They had recovered from an infidelity. He cheated. And they're still together and they're better than ever. They said the therapist that they went to was so tough.

I mean, she said it was like, I had to like prepare for war, but it's what saved their marriage. It's what saved their marriage. They had to get really real with each other. Like all the cards out in the table, like everyone telling the truth, because here's the thing, we don't typically tell the truth. We're too afraid, we don't wanna rock the boat,

it's very vulnerable, where a lot of people are too busy blaming their partner, because most people, they come to a therapy couch with their couple or coach's couch, whatever, and really what they're thinking is, I hope this person can fix my partner so I can be happy. And that typically is what's happening. Instead of, no, when you change, that's what's going to change everything.

And if by you changing, the dynamic doesn't shift or meaning you don't, sometimes it takes one person to change and it influences the other person to change sometimes it's one person to change and you and you have so much influence over the relationship one person has so much influence over their relationship you both have so much influence and so it begins with you before we start breaking down these couples and get your take on all of them, can you share with us a couple of your hard truths about love that you can find in the book? Yes, so one is it begins with you,

which is not about shame or blame. It's about if you want, regardless of where you are in your love life, if you're single or you're married or in a relationship or you're just getting out of a relationship, you have to be the change that you want to see in your life in general and in your love life. So it's about getting very curious about what your patterns are. You know, I worked with someone who her core belief when she came to see me was all men cheat. And through time working together, what she was able, what I was able to help her realize inside of herself is no, it's not that all men cheat is that I'm choosing men who cheat.

And I'm choosing men who have a lot of problems. Like the red flags are very, very clearly there. Like cheating is only one, one dimension of the multitude of problems that they bring to the relationship. of the multitude of problems that they bring to the relationship. Okay, so then what has to change in me? Well, I have to be okay with being alone until I meet someone right. I have to be okay with, you know, I have to look at my pattern. So that's really important. Another really important truth that I think your audience will resonate with

is that lust is not the same thing as love. We don't, as a society, I don't think that we have, love is a very hard thing to define, right? Because it has different meaning for everyone and it has different, like the love that you experience when you're falling in love with someone is a very different love that you experience years in. It deepens, it changes, and the meaning that you assign to it changes. And when people first meet, as I'm sure, you know,

both are very aware, everyone here is aware, is like when you're feeling all that strong connection in the beginning, that's chemistry. That is lust. That's not actually what's going to, that's not how you build a relationship. A relationship needs trust, it needs safety. And so being able to process that when you meet someone, you know, like part of

bringing more of a whole, a sense of self, right? Cause every relationship, everyone needs to bring a sense of self to the relationship. If you're waiting to be perfect, you'll be waiting forever. If you're waiting to feel completely whole on your own and that bullshit that's being thrown out, no. The stronger sense of self that you have going into a relationship, the greater chance you have of it being a success. And even if it's not a success, at least it doesn't turn into a complete nightmare. And so people, what they do is they, you know, they think this person is the one. So I demystify the one, which I think is a really, um, this idea of the one and

romanticism and all these things, like they actually do is quite a disservice when it comes to relationships. And so I demystify the one. I try to explain in the best way because, you know, I don't have all the answers, but in the best way that I know what it means to love someone versus something that's really just chemical and being able to differentiate the two. Yeah, I mean, it's very interesting hearing you speak and I feel like you agree

because a lot of stuff we talk about on this show, I always talk about, especially meeting people are the one. And it's like so much about love or what we see out there on TV shows, I always talk about, especially meeting people or the one, and it's like so much about love or what we see out there on TV shows, movies, our society, basically is suggesting that we just have to find the one. And then once you do, the work stops almost, which is like literally the exact opposite of how you make a relationship work.

It's like you meet someone, great, you have some fun, there's a honeymoon phase, and then the work begins. Because to make a relationship work, you got to wake up every day on some level, choose each other and figure out. Yeah, it's a choice. Yeah, it's a choice every day. Do I wanna make this work, do I not?

Do I wanna be this person or not? Could I do something, you know, et cetera, et cetera. And so much of we all, everyone out there pursuing love, like wants to find that person so they can stop trying so hard or working or whatever it is they have this fantasy of like. Rescued. Yeah, it's just like, well, dating sucks so much. I just wanna meet someone so I can just like

be done with it all. It's like, what? Well, that's shit, man. That's when. That's when it really starts. That's when it really starts. Yeah, cause like other than that, you can kind of do whatever you want.

So I was very fascinated. I'm very, end everything you're saying. Be sure to check it out. The book is called- It Begins With You. It Begins With You, available for pre-order out in January, January 14th, 2025. All right, let's get into-

I'm so excited to hear your takes. Love is blind. So excited. I'm really excited to talk about it. Who are your favorites? Who do you feel like you kind of can see not working out or working out? Can I go into like a real wormhole here?

Get in here, get in. Because it's one of my favorite things. Dig. So Taylor might be one of my favorite people to ever be on Love is Blind. I find her, I mean, of course the show, it's like, do you ever really know anyone? Not really, it's edited, like, you know.

I find her to be very grounded, very kind, kind of very normal, and you know, very kind, kind of very normal and very pretty, like the whole package. And so far, I know I think there's gonna be some drama coming this week, but so far I really like the two of them. I really like them. Let's get into Hannah and Nicky D.

I call him Nicky D. Nicky D. He loves that. Yeah, he loves. He's introducing himself. Yeahy D. He loves that. Yeah. He loves it. He's introducing himself. Yeah, yeah. He loves it.

What I will say is that I think the both of them are too immature for marriage. I think they have a lot more maturing to do before they can even make any relationship work with anyone. And I feel that way about both of them for different reasons. For her, what I find impressive about her, I'll start with the good, is that I'm very fortunate.

I did not have to, you know, my parents supported me even after 18, right? So I never, I didn't have to learn all those things and I wasn't cut off at 18, let's say that. And she was. And so the things that she's had to develop in herself and then she's 26, I find that actually very impressive. And I understand her frustration with Nikki D because I think at 28, he knows too little. Like I think he's been too coddled. And the fact that you don't know how to boil water,

you don't understand finances, like how can you be ready for marriage when you have an act, when you're still like a college student? She's too immature because she's too obnoxious and I think that you know having the ick and wanting to control him and not understanding like what it means to show respect and love. So I just don't think that I think the two of them are incredibly mismatched. You know people come to the show and my guess is like they're very, I know this is a dirty word, but almost desperate to find love.

And so if they have a connection with someone, it's like they really want to make it work and they want to make it to the altar. But they're mismatched and the two of them are not ready for full-time partnership. Do you think it's like almost, because you're right, they seem almost the opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of why they're not ready for love. Do you think it's like almost, cause you're right, it seems almost the opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of why they're not ready for love. Do you think there's something they said about why those two ended up with each other in a way? Cause like, could their mismatch almost compliment

each other in a weird way where he so like, doesn't know anything. Yeah. She knows a lot for her age, but she's missing the kind of the emotional maturity to understand empathy or just like that patience where she feels like because she knows it, everyone should know it.

Yes. It feels like like entitles her to the criticism that she's giving Nick and Nick knows on some level he's a little immature. He knows a little less than he should. So like, hey, I'll end up with someone who knows a lot and can guide me, I don't know. Yeah, well you know, I mean, the whole concept behind opposites attract is usually what we are attracted to unconsciously in another person

is that they have things, aspects to their personality and aspects to who they are that we actually suppress and wish that we had more of. So to give you an example, let's say an introvert, this is just a low hanging fruit example. Let's say an introvert and an extrovert get together. What the introvert is sort of drawn to in the extrovert is their adventurous spirit. Like they're really out there. And it's not that the introvert doesn't have that in them, but it is so deeply repressed because it's not what they were conditioned to be in many ways. And then maybe the extrovert is really drawn to the introvert because they have a stability to them that the extrovert doesn't have.

And that's something that they long to have. It's something in them, but they've repressed it. When opposites like this attract and come together, unless you can acknowledge, like what I see in you, I also have in me, eventually what will happen is what I see in you that actually like what I was attracted to now really annoys me because now I can't really control you or it's messing with my vibe. And so then people try to change themselves. Long answer to your question. Yeah, I mean, who knows? I think the cool thing about Love is Blind is like,

you connect with people who you wouldn't necessarily connect to in real life. But I think with them, again, I think it was just a lack of maturity that they brought to it. I think she quit her job, I think it was just a lack of maturity that they brought to it. I think she quit her job, she really wanted to find someone, there was someone who she was kind of drawn to. I don't feel love between them.

I just don't feel love, do you agree? Yeah, 100%. I feel like early onset resentment. Yes. It's like she resents, she already resents him for not being the person she imagined he was, not who he said he was, because I don't think he was that dishonest

with who he was. No, she totally projected this whole thing onto him. I don't think he made it seem like he was 6'4". He's just like, I play football. Yeah, exactly. I also kind of wonder if like, while they're in the pods, because they also had that love triangle with Leo and whatnot, that I'm like,

I do wonder if their conversations in the pods were like good times, fun, or else like their serious conversations were about the dynamics of the outside relationship versus like, how do you feel about finances? How do you, what are your interests? Like the serious conversations they didn't start having until they're face to face.

And now she's just like, ick, ick, ick. But it's like, this is who he's been. You've just kind of romanticized what happened in the pods. Then when she saw him, I think's just like, ick, ick, ick, but it's like, this is who he's been, you've just kind of romanticized what happened in the pods. Then when she saw him, I think she was like, oh, I don't know, and then it's just like a continual checklist of breaking him down. Oh, completely. I mean, she acts like a nightmare in it,

but if he were honest with himself, he's not into it either. But I think he lies to himself about this, because I don't think it feels good. You can see it in his whole body and his body language. He doesn't feel good about himself when he's with her. Yeah, I'm honestly surprised that he responds the way he does to her.

He responds very positively, you know? I feel like most men would feel emasculated and would snap and would be like, what is your problem? Stop talking to me that way. It seems like a defense mechanism. Like his go- and would be like, what is your problem? Stop talking to me that way. It seems like a defense mechanism. His go-to is always like, everything's fine.

He makes a joke out of it. I think in his discomfort, he not flirts, but yeah, he downplays everything. Downplays everything, exactly. And so again, lying to himself for sure. I also love how she was like, I don't wanna have to ask you over and over again to take the trash out.

And it's like, that is every man, babe. You have to ask every man over and over again to do something. None of them will do it on the first try. Truth. And even if we would, we're just gonna make you ask anyways. Yeah.

And I, you know, I'm, I'm, there's a part of me that's really rooting for Hannah. I feel like, yeah, I just, maybe again, I keep coming back to this maturity thing, you know, where. But she's 27. No, well, I thought she was 20. No, she was 26 when they filmed. Okay. Yeah.

But she's still, if I didn't have their ages there, I would have, I would have guessed younger. Yeah, like 23 or something. Yeah, same. Same, I do, I will give her credit in the fact that I'm like, I think she does know what she wants and like who she is as a person I think she has insecurities that she doesn't deal with and therefore get Big time what is it projected on to her partner which therefore why you're calling out flaws on how he dresses what he does

Yeah her but no no man worth his salt, you know, whatever, I don't know what the saying is, but no man, like she can't control a man. Yeah. You can't do that. You can't control your man. You can't control anyone, you know, like you just can't do that. And so that's not her, the way that she is, is not going to fly with someone who actually is, has a self-confidence. And I don't think he has that in himself yet. Right. And do you think that's what she's looking for? She should be looking for somebody that... No, I think she needs to... I think that that's not in her heart and soul what she actually wants.

But it's a habit. It's not who she is. It's a habit. That's how I see it. I'm excited for the questions you're going to ask her. Hello! Hi! I'm excited for the questions you're gonna ask her. Hello. Hi. How you doing Hannah? Good, how are you guys? We're doing very well.

What has this whole experience been like? A learning experience. It's been great. A learning experience. Well let's dive into your learning experience because we've enjoyed obviously watching you and Nick. I'm sure you've been made well aware of the criticisms about your guys' relationship.

So before we start hitting you with the hard hitting questions, maybe we'll just open it to you in terms of like, what have you learned and what has this experience been like for you? Yeah, so I've learned a lot. I've learned that there's things I need to work on. For example, I'm a very direct person.

I know that, but I think my delivery is rough. I've learned that delivery is everything. Even when we were feeling like even in the past time before, it came out, I was reflecting. But when you see it, you're like, gosh, that was really hard. So I've learned that just to be out. Like I was reflecting, but when you see it, you're like, gosh, that really hard. And so I've learned that like, just to be kinder and work on my delivery. And sometimes just

because the truth and it's what you're feeling doesn't mean you have to say out loud, maybe think about it, think about the delivery, be a little softer. But the whole experience, I just learned like a lot about like, what I like, what I don't like, like how hard it really is to like, get married and all the things that you have to Like put forth to be able to like get married to someone have you had previous partners be like rude Bitch, they've been like, can you not like have any has anyone ever called you out on it before or do you feel like this? Just watching it back has been Enough. No, I wish people call me out on my shit more

enough. No, I wish people would call me out of my shit more. Some people like passports and stuff to you. It's definitely like a problem, a little bit like a control freak. Like I like the things I like. So I think in relationships, sometimes they just let me do what I do and they don't really say anything. So it's definitely like a problem of me like wanting what I want. I feel in past relationships, but it's never really been an issue. But I also don't think I've ever discussed such serious questions where it's so direct and you have to talk about such serious things before. So it's a little bit more unique.

I've never been engaged or married. And so these questions I'm asking aren't typical things that I would be asking relationships unless we were together for a long time and we were a lot more comfortable maybe. Very valid. Can we talk about Nick's appearance? It's my, I think, well my belief,

and I think everyone in the household, everyone sitting here, that Nick wasn't as dishonest about his appearance as you seem to let on. It felt like you heard football player and then painted an image in your head of who you thought Nick was. Like Travis Kelcey.

Yeah, it's like, you're like, oh, we're a double date with Taylor and Travis. And while maybe Nick left some things out, and maybe he could have done a better job of like, just you are aware of what kickers and punters do. Maybe he could have asked some clarifying questions. He seemed to have no problem allowing you to get excited about him.

But yeah, like how do you see it now? Or was Nick totally dishonest with how he looked? Yeah, I think that like, I'll tell you one thing, I know nothing about sports. So when Nick told me he was a kicker, I was like, oh, he's big, big boy. Lesson learned. Nick can be little.

That was just fun. It was really just my own ignorance, I had no clue. And I think it's just a thing too, because like all the girls, we just, Nick just like carries himself in like such a way that like you just like think that like he just looks his own way. Big dick energy. And like, yes, big dick energy for sure. So I was like, this man's gonna be so fun.

And he is so fun. I just had a different imagination in my mind. And like, when I saw him, it wasn't even that like, it's just so shocking. I think what people don't understand is even the littlest comments that someone makes, you paint this picture in your mind, and you don't realize until the reveal. And so you can't help but imagine this person's doing this person doesn't look exactly what you think they're gonna look like. I feel like you're just like, what the fuck? Like you're just in shock because you have no clue what's going on. But like, I was being so dramatic.

I was being so dramatic. I was being so dramatic. You're just in shock. So when I was standing there, I'm like, oh my God, I'm a giant. I'm so much taller than him. I'm like, he looks nothing like what I thought. And then you get back and you're like, wait a second. Okay, this voice matches this person.

Like, he's the same height as me. He's actually taller than me. I was just being dramatic. Yeah. And heels. But he did, he didn't make it. I always wear clunkers too. I was just being dramatic. But Hannah, he was, he did, he didn't make it. I was wearing clunkers too, I was just being dramatic.

But Hannah, he was, he did, kept being like, wow, you did have to wear the heels. Wow, are you, I felt like he did play into it to where it like would have pressed that insecurity if that is an insecurity you have of like. That is true, actually when you got the first reveal, it was actually he, it was his insecurity he put out before anyone else's. That is true.

Yeah, he called out, he's like, wait, are you taller than me? Or like, you really had to wear the heels or something. And it's like, okay, well, thanks. An equal insecurity in both men and women, right? It's not for everyone. I think a lot of times women don't want a man that's, they want a man as taller than them,

not just a foot, like two feet, you know? Yeah, I don't know. And then for a man when a woman as tall as them, not like just a foot, like two feet, you know? Yeah, I don't know. And then like for a man when a woman's taller than them or they think that they're taller than them, it makes them feel uncomfortable. So I think we were both just like in shock. I feel like a lot of the fans are kind of gushing over the transformations of some of your cast.

I mean, have you seen what Garrett looks like today? Yes, I have. That flow is insane. I was like, Garrett! I mean, he you seen what Garrett looks like today? Yes, I have. That flow is insane. I was like, Garrett! I mean, he is giving like, no. He's giving GQ models. He's giving GQ models. Yes.

Yes, he was like, I think he like, he posted a picture where he was like, going something for like New York Fashion Week. And I was like, you look like you would be a model in New York Fashion Week, like go Garrett. Yes, sir. I just wanted to say, like, I think that it's, it must be so difficult to watch yourself on television Like I'm here. Yes, sir. I just wanted to say, like, I think that it's,

must be so difficult to watch yourself on television and see things that you are like, wow, I wish I hadn't said that. And then being forced to grow. So I just really want to acknowledge you for just, you know, saying that, but like, you know, I noticed some things and there's some things that I really want to work on, like my deliveries. So I just kudos to you for that. Yeah, I noticed some things and there's some things that I really wanna work on,

like my delivery. So I just kudos to you for that. Yeah, I agree. Thank you. I've got a lot of room to grow, but I'm trying, I promise. Yeah. At those early moments, what did you love about Nick? I think Nick is just a goofy.

I loved how like goofy he was. I feel like we could just like joke around. And for one, I thought Nick was really attractive. We have like a lot of common things that we could just joke. And I really liked about Nick, it's like my dry humor, it's really dry, I'm seeing it on TV. But we could just giggle.

And when I would make fun of him, I think it's kind of a love language, which means not me being cruel sometimes it is, but I'm not trying to be. And he didn't take it like I was being offensive. He just joked around with me. And so, yes, I looked erect, but he would listen when I had conversations with him

so we could like talk through things. That's why I love Nick. Like our communications very well with Nick. Which of your castmates surprised you the most as you've watched it unfold? And I'm gonna give you three options. And if I'm wrong with these three options, let me know. But is it either Stephen with the you know secret you know kinks whatever they are

not shaming but the lying Ramses who weirdly thinks he's entitled to like sexy and joys over someone you know their biological chemistry and birth controls or is it Tyler who secretly has some kids that he may or may not father? That was probably the most shocking I would say if that's reality the whole entire Tyler situation. I guess more like shocking in terms of the person the people because I know in the pod but the people they presented themselves to be or the people we thought they were. Yeah but who surprised you the most? in the pot, but the people they presented themselves to be or the people we thought they were. Yeah, but who surprised you the most? Ramzes. Thank you.

Ramzes definitely surprised me the most. Ramzes is just a very progressive, he works for like woman nonprofit, like you just never imagine that. So I was just like very surprised I think with Ramzes. It was that matched with the like, I'm judging you for serving this country that I live in. Yeah, yes, yes.

Point blank period, yeah, I don't even care. I'll divorce you as soon as, if you ever were to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was very shocking. I understand like standing ground on your morals is understandable and I think, but at the same time, like let's be compromising and like, let's understand other people.

So that conversation was definitely Yeah, just as long as he is enjoying sex That's his boundary exactly he will not yeah, do you have any Anticipation for Reunion do you have any things you're going in there to say or anything you're looking forward to? I'm definitely looking forward to seeing everybody. I'm excited for that. I'm excited to see everyone get dressed up. Conversation wise, yeah, I think I'm just excited for everyone to speak their piece. Like we all see what's on TV and we all like have our own opinions and I think it's just a place for

everyone to say how they really feel and I'm excited like hear what everyone has to say or like what everything's going on the internet like the whole Tyler situation or like other things or see Garrett after his blow up like I'm just excited to see like what we're actually going to say versus what was on TV I guess. Yeah, we are excited too. Anything you want to leave us with Hannah before we let you go? I'm just an honest person guys, I promise. I'm just a truth teller and I just need to be a finder. Okay. So I will keep telling the truth but in a better way. Have you apologized to Nick for your delivery?

Yes, I have. And I've apologized to Nick back then too. Okay. But now watching it, yes. For sure. I'm sorry for being such a raging bitch but I'm working on it. You were fine. This hair color is so you, this brownie blonde. I'm obsessed with it. You look so good. It's so great to see you glowing and happy,

and I'm excited to watch the rest of your journey. Thank you so much. And you guys look incredible in your Incredibles outfit. Oh, thank you very much. Happy Halloween. Thank you. All right, Hannah, we appreciate you. We're excited to see you at the reunion

and best of luck the rest of the way. Okay, thank you guys so much. All right, take care. Bye, Hannah. Bye, y'all. Well, speaking of accountability, she seems... Yeah. She's heard the people. She's heard the people.

I feel like it would be hard. I mean, I can't imagine watching myself on television. I can't imagine watching every conversation I've ever had with you be documented. I mean, like truly a nightmare. I mean, listen, I think in most relationships, disagreements, there's always like, why are you yelling at me? I'm not yelling, you know?

Where you're like, and you're not yelling, but you definitely have raised your voice and you're like, I'm talking exactly like you. I'm like, am I talking like that? You never, and then you realize you probably are. So I feel like most fights are often like that and to Nellie's point, like to go into these environments, it's one thing to the pods, but to immerse yourself into the real world

with these people and have these very tough conversations. What was the conversation, babe, that someone was having? I think, was it, might have been Ramses? I don't know, it was one of the couples and it felt harsh. But I was like, these people are two weeks away from a wedding, you gotta get into it, you know? I mean, the pressure. Sometimes I really think about this show

and I wonder how many of these couples would actually make it if they didn't have the pressure of having to get married. They're strangers. I also feel like and maybe this is happening and we're obviously just not watching it because these cameras are not on them 24-7 but I feel like and I feel like Garrett and Taylor have kind of hinted at this of like if your dad doesn't give me that approval, are we okay just dating? You know, are we okay saying no at the altar and continuing to date?

It's like, can't you have this understanding of we wanna be together, but this marriage is really fast. So maybe let's go through with the rest of the show, let's say no at the altar, and let's continue dating. That's probably the most important conversation in the context of this show. It's like, okay, if we are not ready, are we still a couple?

Yeah. Unfortunately, the only problem with that approach is that that's where these TV shows and productions come in in terms of, they are very much, I mean, credit to at least Love is Blind, they call it an experiment. Right. As opposed to like The Bachelor, they call it a journey.

And at least Love is Blind, it's a, what is an experiment as opposed to like The Bachelor, they call it a journey. And at least Love is Blind, it's a, what is an experiment? You have a controlled environment, you have subjects, and then you kind of test how they behave in your controlled environment. And part of this controlled environment is this whole like get married or never speak again. And you've seen it in this season and other seasons where if one of these people,

at least on camera, and I would suspect also off, even suggests, like hey, so like what if. That's gonna like screw up the ratings. Not only the ratings. It's just not gonna be as exciting. Not even that. I think if any of these people, if you're, let's say Garrett, right?

And I think honestly Taylor and Garrett of all the couples we've seen over the history of show are some of the most level-headed and pragmatic people. 100%. And we've said this in previous weeks, unlike other in love boring couples, why I don't find them boring is how they articulate their feelings and how they describe all the emotions

that they're feeling throughout this journey, which I think is rare and given the context of the show, I find interesting. But I think they're so ingrained by this environment to even suggest, well, listen, what if we just date? It won't be seen by your partner as pragmatic or reasonable. It will be seen as doubt. And I think they're trained to feel, it's like, wait. First of all, I don't wanna think about pragmatism.

I wanna think about how close or how far away are you from marrying me? And I think that's why, unfortunately in that atmosphere, the pragmatic thing to do is seen as unsafe or dangerous because you wouldn't be being pragmatic, you'd be doubting your partner or you'd be inserting doubt in the relationship. And that's-

Yes, that totally makes sense to me. That's a weird element of the show. Yeah, absolutely. Can we talk about Monica and Steven? Oh, please. What are your thoughts? I mean, I- I saw it coming.

Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I too thought that they were totally mismatched. And in the beginning, I thought, he's never gonna feel like he can make this woman happy. And she, I think, is always gonna feel like she's settling a little bit. And they just seemed very mismatched. And then, but then he started saying all these things

about sex and these sexual innuendos. these and I just like who is this guy something's off something is just not right I think what sucks about this situation is that Monica had talked about all the infidelity she experienced in past relationships and it seems like she was so used to men who were deceitful who would speak and kind of code and kind of lie and be almost probably bad liars. And then she meets Steven, who's this kind of seemingly over communicator,

just big talker about all these things he's doing. And I think he painted this picture that Monica thought, there's just no way he can be like the other guys because the other guys didn't over communicate this way and he shares so much of himself and it was such a kind of, it was all bullshit. It was absolutely all bullshit. It was the worst kind of person

which is like this false sense of security that they paint and it's not an accident that Steven was doing that. I mean, we interviewed Monica last week, and you know, she was like, you know, Steven's definitely a good guy, but, and I'm just like, I don't know if we know he's a good guy.

I don't think good guys are able to lie to the level that he was. And then to paint himself as a victim as he tried to do on social media when the stuff came out. I'm like, that's not a good guy. Like a good guy understands the stakes of the environment, understands the pressure and empathizes with like the person they're in this experiment with.

And when you hear someone like Monica talk about her past relationships, why she signed up for the show, what she experienced in past relationships and for you to hide that very big part of you, so easily? No, I mean, look, everyone has some character defects, but there's some character defects.

You have to know where to draw the line in terms of who you invite into your heart. And if she's been with a lot of cheaters and whatnot, that indicates to me that that's not just bad luck. That indicates to me that maybe you're not seeing red flags or you know, you're not drawing the line at you're not when I say red flags, you're not noticing like character defects that are actually very problematic, right? Like that person doesn't mean that they're evil. It just means that they are going to bring a lot of problems to your life. It's just, it's just the way it is.

And so I think that even her saying, you know, he's a good guy. It's like, no, you're not. Maybe you don't have to, you know, put them down. You can, you can stay composed and not go there, but you have to, to your point, recognize that he's not giving good guy energy. Good men don't do that. We didn't have enough of time, but if I had more time, I would have asked Monica,

is he a good guy or are you just a little too afraid to admit to yourself that he's not? Because I'm pretty sure Monica's saying, oh, he's definitely still a good guy. Is her more protecting herself and what she thinks it says about her in terms of rather than what it says about Steven? Yeah, I mean that or she's just, yeah.

I mean, look, no one will lie to you more than yourself. It's just the way it goes. So, but that being said, I don't think they were right for each other. So even if he didn't have that, I don't think that was a match. I would never match those two together. Ramses and Marissa.

You know, I take serious issue with his- Performative enlightenment. Yeah, but first I took serious issue. I mean, she served in the military, right? So like that's something that she's proud of. That's a big part of her identity. It's a big part of who she is. And he rejects that.

And to me... Wholeheartedly. Wholeheartedly, and he lives in this country, you know. And so wholeheartedly rejects that, fine, but then you two are not right for each other. How can you marry someone who wholeheartedly rejects a big part of who you are? You can't make a relationship work

if you're starting with that. So the sex part, that's just like the cherry on top for me. Before that, I was like, nope. I mean, I thought they were really cute in the beginning and all of that, that's just like the cherry on top for me. Before that, I was like, nope. I mean, I thought they were really cute in the beginning and all of that, but I just saw it as like, this is lust. This is not love, you know? And like, they're really like cute with each other and whatever. But you got to know what your deal breakers are. And someone not being against something that is a huge part of who you are, that's a deal breaker. And then you throw in all the other stuff.

I'm just more critical of it because again, it's just if you're gonna, especially as a man, talk in this big way about how you're an ally and you're this kind of enlightened king and very progressive, like for you to talk about birth control in the way that he did, I just, it's fucking crazy. It's crazy, it's not lying.

It's not lying. And I'm glad Hannah actually said Ramses was the biggest surprise. It's because of like, he just seemed to paint this very different picture of himself. And I think everything we needed to know about who Ramses really is deep down, because all that other stuff, it's talking points

for how you want people to see you, especially on TV. But when they got down to the nitty gritty, I don't wanna wear a condom when we have sex is who Rams this really is. Yeah, 100%. A good entitled thinks that his feelings trumps others and that's how you can absolutely judge someone's entire being and still expect them to wanna marry you.

Yeah. Fucking crazy. Her mom was a little hard on him. I mean, that was an interesting scene. I didn't mind that though. You didn't mind the fact that the first thing she said was putting down how he looks? I didn't love that.

Even though, yeah. That was right. But I think in general overall, I'm not, I mean. Yeah, she's a tough broad and I respect that she's probably been through a lot. I think it's just more, especially in that atmosphere, again, maybe her approach could have been more refined, but clearly her daughter was like leading with her heart.

Yes. And her mom didn't say, you can't do this. She was like, I'm gonna support. Agreed. Ultimately she allowed, but she was just like, I'm gonna ask the questions my daughter's too afraid to right now, because right now she's just all heart and no head,

and her mom kinda came in there, and to me that was a loving mother. Maybe her approach was crass or whatever, but she was there for her daughter, and I'll never criticize that. I agree with that, I agree with that. And look, this is actually a thing. I mean, you can't be all heart.

You can't go into a relationship all heart. You gotta have a little head too. You know, like you have to have, you have to be a bit pragmatic. I think that Alex and Tim, hmm, this is one I've been like really thinking about. Yeah. I think they hate each other.

Yeah, I think they're totally mismatched completely. There was something that I picked up on when they first saw each other and their energy was very, there was no romantic energy that I can detect. And she kept on getting annoyed by something that he was saying. And I was like-

The dog. Yeah, the dog. That's my dog. And she was like, stop. And she was like getting all irritated. I'm like, already this does not work. I thought that was very strange. So you think they hate each other? Yeah, they probably do.

I mean, I'm kind of joking, but like it's like when she says, I don't like that, he doubles down. Yeah. That is a telltale sign from, when guys don't like breaking up with their partners, they wanna be broken up with. Ah, that's an interesting thing.

Yeah, they don't have the guts. they don't wanna be the bad guy, and so they tend to just start misbehaving even more, and when their partner tells them what they don't like, they tend to do more of it, and that's what I'm seeing from Tim. I've seen that a little bit in her too. Yeah, I think they hate each other. I mean, for her to, again,

she chose not to pick up her place at all. I know. That was crazy. That was wild. I mean, not even a quick, give me five minutes I know. That was crazy. That was wild. I mean, not even a quick, give me five minutes, throw everything in the closet. This was someone who was like, I want him to see my fill. Yes, that was, and then she was dissing his place, and his place was nice, and then to see how she lived,

yeah, that was very, that was very, very bizarre. They seem like high, both good quality people, moment with his dad, beautiful. Beautiful moment. She has a beautiful family, he has a beautiful family. They're just high, both good quality people, his moment with his dad, beautiful. Beautiful moment. She has a beautiful family, he has a beautiful family. They're just like, yeah, very mismatched. He's very type A, very structured, could take a joke a little bit better,

and she's way too loose. Way too loose. Do you think that when they're in the pods, that even though you don't, what's wild is that they don't see each other, but there's still a seduction happening where you're getting, you know, lost in the moment and you're getting lost in the emotion. emotions are part of relationship and they kind of define the quality of our lives, but at the same time, it's all heart, like it's all emotions, it's all projection, it's all imagination.

And then to actually transition to the real world and see if you're right, like that's, talk about an experiment, like that's incredibly difficult. Incredibly difficult. And I think some of them get it right and they use their time in the pods, but you're right, I think some of them, because they're forced to talk,

they're forced to talk with no other distractions, no phones or anything. And for a lot of people, it's therapy. Some of these people go on these pods and experience something like they've never experienced before and so I think most of them don't even know how to process the feelings that they're feeling because what they're all feeling is something very intense,

whatever that feeling is. And none of them really know how to process it. And I think it's, for the people who choose wisely, it's all kind of luck. Yeah, it really is all kind of luck. And I think that people, when they're in the pods, paradoxically, they feel so seen because they have nothing to talk about.

They have no distractions. So they're talking about things that really matter, and then they're really listening to each other. Yeah, it's a very interesting thing. Are you guys really thrown off by Tyler's news? I need to know more. I think so too, because I'm rooting for them. He's being bizarrely, it's just like why,

the thing that I think everyone's struggling with is why you're being so cryptic about something the more we find out, the more it's just like, couldn't you just have told her? Yeah. Like why are we? I feel like that's the conversation of like, so do you want kids?

And it's like, well, I've, you know. Just to be honest about it, yes. And then if he's not forthright about that, then it just begs the question of like. What else is he not forthright about? You know, it's like. That shouldn't have been a secret. It should have been easier to tell that truth

rather than to avoid telling it. I agree because I think the fact that he, I don't think it's a dirty secret. No. At all. I think a lot of men do that and you know, they do it when they're much younger and maybe they need the money. So it's just being really honest about it

The whole thing was that I found very confusing and need to learn more and then what we've heard So far is that like not only is it not something that you shouldn't have to lie about I could see it as maybe like a beautiful generous thing. He did were like he has a friend Absolutely who needed a donor he was there and he chose to be. Absolutely. Who needed a donor, he was there and he chose to be involved because he's still these children's father unorthodox, unique, of course. But like, you know, it's something, the Ashley we've gotten to know would love that about him.

Yeah. Unexpected, something she'd have to grapple with, she'd have to process it, wrap her brain around it, but like, reject him for it? That's not the Ashley we've gotten to know. Yeah, so do you think that her response was more just being caught off guard, or do you think, because it seemed,

the whole thing, I guess they didn't even also show how it was communicated, so I wish they'd had, I wish they had. Yeah, unfortunately it seems like whether it's Tyler or Ashley or Monica and Steven or even Marissa and they're not capturing some of these blowups on camera, which sucks. It sucks.

Why don't they just put like, Hidden cameras. Hidden cameras all over these apartments. That would be great. That would be great. Love Island. Yeah, Love Island style. Like, I love Island style, whatever.

Like at this point, like we. You're missing too much. Yeah- You're missing too much. You're missing too much. Even Tim and Alex, their big blow up in Mexico was in on camera. Oh yeah, she's like, I put my hand over your mouth and he's like, you called me names outside of my- Yeah, it's like, what happened?

I think the show actually did a huge disservice. I think it'd be much more interesting to see that. Yeah, well, I think Ashley had a normal response that most of us have, which is like, I have to assume that you might have lied about other things. Right. I've always said this, I'm curious what your opinion is.

I've been lied to, I've been cheated on before, I've dealt with all the bullshit and I hear your story and I find it very relatable in terms of how I think about relationships. But I still choose to enter into relationships choosing to trust because I'd rather be trusting than a skeptical person. I recognize that I can choose to trust

and eventually I'll be disappointed and I'll learn things. But you can't go in just this kind of negative, untrusting person because you're, you know, so it is a delicate balance between learning from your past and going in like aware, but still choosing to trust someone. But now I think with Ashley and Tyler, he's given Ashley the green light to question everything at this point.

And that sucks for Ashley. It does suck for Ashley. Because you wanna have a level of like, yeah babe, I'm gonna trust you until you give me a reason not to. And he's given her a reason not to for what seems like maybe a silly reason. Yeah, I mean, so there's a lot there. One is I agree with you, you know, this idea that

trust needs to be earned is actually somewhat of a myth because you do trust is a very difficult thing to define. And it's also you do you have to give it and you also have to earn it. It's a little bit of both because just getting into a relationship or deciding to commit to someone, you have to have some faith and some trust in the process. So, and if you go up with walls up, first of all, no one's actually really going to want that. So you just, you have to have some trust for sure. I don't know. I mean, yes, with Ashley, I just, who knows how it was delivered. I'm just not quite sure. See, what I was getting from her,

and I think I have to watch it again, was that she was actually very upset that he has biological children out there. I was getting that sense that that was part of something that was really getting to her. And I hope that that's not the thing that breaks him up. See, I took it as, I saw that too, but I saw that as something that she was caught off guard.

Yeah, in shock. And I think anyone, if given the option, right, if you get to meet your person, I'm using in quotes, your person, you're gonna opt that they don't have kids, rather. If you wanna have kids with someone, you're gonna opt that they don't. You might accept that if they do,

whether it's through a different marriage, or whatever the reason, but I think your preference always is clean slate. Yes, especially at that age. And he presented that he didn't have any kids. So I think her disappointment was more around... Yeah, that's true. There's a lie there.

It's kinda like, let's say Nick said he was six-four. Yeah. You know? And then you find out he's five-eleven. Yeah, There's a lie there. It's kind of like, let's say Nick said he was six four. Yeah. You know? And then you find out he's five 11. Yeah, it's a lie. If he would have just led with five 11, you would accept five 11. Yeah.

But he, you know. So I think it was more that than the act. And I could see her getting over it. Yeah, I hope so. And I also feel for him, I think it's a very, I think he made a mistake in not telling her. But I think it's something that he was very afraid to say and that he'll learn a lot.

I don't know, I'm rooting for them. I am too. I'm just rooting for them. I was also rooting for Monica and Steven though, so I mean. Oh God, no. Yeah, no, I understand that. Yeah, Ramses and Marissa already disappointed me. Yeah.

They still love each other though. As far as we know. I don't know if they love each other, you know? There's always that point. Yeah, but I understand what you're saying. The lust of it, I guess. No, you can always tell at the end of Love is Blind, when some of these couples, where they're like,

you know, they have this big breakup, and then they'll pretend to talk about their still planning getting married, and we're like, we know you're not gonna make it. You know? I don't think Hannah and Nick make it. I don't think Maranzas and Ramses make it. I'm gonna put my entire life and money on Taylor and Garrett making it.

They have to. Taylor and Garrett. Yeah, I hope so. I'll be devastated. I will be devastated too. And then Tyler and Ashley, I'm on the fence about it just because it's kind of like. We've got too many questions.

We don't know what the truth is. Yeah. And we don't know what her be honest about just because it's kind of like. We've got too many questions. We don't know what the truth is. Yeah. We don't know what her appetite for accepting his truth is. Yeah, so maybe we're looking at just one marriage. It's possible. It's possible, yeah. I'll take one good one. And I really think Garrett and Taylor could.

And again, if you've seen these pictures, all signs point to him being in a relationship with Taylor. Okay. You don't have that type of glow up. Have you seen this glow up? I haven't, but now I'm dying to see. Show Jillian. She'll be like, oh yeah, he's married with Taylor. You don't have that type of glow up. Have you seen this glow up? I haven't, but now I'm dying to see. Show Jillian. She'll be like, oh yeah, he's married to Taylor.

I'm wondering if they ended up together and moved to San Diego, and then like that's also the California effect. Yeah. Sure, but there's, I've met a plenty of guys who just wear T-shirts and don't know how to fix their hair. Yeah, exactly.

In California too. Yeah. Not a hot physicist. This is a sign of a good woman by a side. Ring up the photo. Oh my, oh my. Yeah. Whoa.

Yeah. Right, that screams. Can we like click on one of those? Wow. That's not a glow up that happens because you went online or that your sister decided to give you some advice. That's also not even like a breakup glow up. Like that is somebody loves you.

That's yes. Somebody really loves you. Someone saw your potential. Yeah. And you were a willing participant. Participant, yeah. Wow. Right?

Wow. Because he's 100% married. He's 100% hot. He's 100% hot. Of course. Yeah, he's gorgeous. Yeah. Oh my God. I didn't know.

I didn't know. He was gorgeous before too. Oh, but he was cute. He was a handsome guy who took plenty good care of himself. But needed the makeover. Yes. The hair. But nothing about his aesthetic or his appearance.

Was hot. Was hot. It was functional. And it never seemed like something he cared about. It was like nerdy cute. Yeah. Put together. Yeah.

But throw that all together. That's a whole package. Yeah, and she's like, I think she's super beautiful. Like, yeah, she's like a really just like lovely girl. I even like watching them joke cause they're so smart that I'm like, y'all just have your little inside jokes. And I'm like, wait, Google what?

Yeah, I know. And that's what I like, because I also think they're matched intellectually and I think that's important, you know? So yeah, for sure. And they both like, I think are sexually attracted to each other. Yes, go figure.

I know love is blind, but it's- But, you know, not really. Not forever. Didn't some of them, I feel like Monica, Monica and Stephen talked about what they look like. In this season. Monica mentioned her ethnicity because I think she wanted her partner

to know that she was black. Yeah. And then Stephen. You know, he has the whole story. There's an interesting story behind it. Yeah. But then he weirdly was like, I think you're gonna like what you see.

Oh yeah, that was really weird. Nick D also said he was like a less buff Henry Cavill or something. Who's Henry? Superman guy. Oh my god. He had some like- That was his-

He said something about Henry Cavill but not buff. I mean, Henry Cavill is like arguably one of the most handsome men in the world. His face looks nothing like him. Yeah. Other than he's white and has brown hair. Yeah, literally nothing. Yeah, you don't wanna do that.

That's like the Megan Fox, you know. Although I didn't meet her in person and she kinda does. Really? She does. Really, you see it? You see it and you think, oh guys definitely have told you this.

Oh wow, well there you go. There you go. 100%. There you go. Jillian, this has been so much fun. We appreciate you stopping by. You'll have to come back for an Ask Nick. I would love to do that.

Her book is called It Begins With You. It's available for pre-order now. I know many of you people listening to this show. Rihanna. Rihanna, if you're out there. We're assuming Rihanna listens to our show because she's a big Bravo fan. Amazing.

We are the podcast. But I know many of you listen to the show, relate to a lot of the things that Jillian is saying. So maybe it does start with you and to start, maybe get the book. Yes. Maybe that will be the start of your healing journey. If you're asking yourself, why me?

How could this possibly have happened? Maybe this book is perfect for you. Send in those questions at asknickofthevilefiles.com for all things Ask Nick, texting office hours. We are back tomorrow with Gypsy Rose. She returns the show. Her new man, Ken, is with us to talk about their relationship, how it started, her pregnancy, everything under the sun,

her very interesting and crazy life, all discussed tomorrow on Going Deeper. And then on Thursday, we have the very charming Charles from Golden Bachelorette with us along with Crystal Minkoff and Cynthia Bailey who are with us to make a very big announcement. That much and so much more on Thursday. Thanks for tuning in. Bye! you