The Viall Files - E832 Going Deeper with Jaleel White

Episode Date: October 30, 2024

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper, with Jaleel White! This week, the household isn’t the only family that matters, as we welcome Steve Urkel himself, Jaleel White to the studio! (Spoiler alert: he did in fact do that, but he’s also done so much more). We talk to Jaleel about his new book, experience as a child actor, Stefan, and how he’s met everyone but Madonna. Plus, a caller joins to get some absolutely incredible advice!  “Behind the scenes there were a lot of ways in which I was always reminded that you’re not the star of the show.” Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff every Monday starting October 21st! Available wherever you get your podcasts and YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  Thank You to Our Sponsors: Nutrafol - Get results you can run your fingers through! For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month’s subscription and free shipping when you go to https://nutrafol.com and enter the promo code VIALL. OUAI - Get on your OUAI to save for the holiday. Go to https://theouai.com for 15% off sitewide and enter promo code VIALLFILES. Life360 - Make everyday family life better. Visit https://life360.com or download the app today and use code VIALL to get one month of the gold package for free. Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @jaleelwhite @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell

Hey moms, looking for some lighthearted guidance on this crazy journey we call parenting? Join me, Sabrina Kohlberg. And me, Andi Mitchell, for Pop Culture Moms. Where each week we talk about what we're watching. And examine our favorite pop culture moms up close to try to pick up some parenting hacks along the way. Come laugh, learn, and grow with us as we look for the best tips. And maybe a few what not to do's from our favorite fictional moms. From Good Morning America and ABC Audio,

pop culture moms, find it wherever you get your podcasts. You're crazy. You're crazy. Jaleel. What's happening, Nick? Welcome to the Valve House. Thanks for having me, man. It's great to be with you. I'm very, very, very excited to chat with you. Like I said, when you walked in, I absolutely grew up watching you. It was a huge, like you were like one of my role models as a kid. Role model? Yeah, for sure.

Stefan, for sure. Okay, okay. I was going to say, I hope not wardrobe role model. Yeah, I mean, I was a huge. Boy, she wouldn't have put on a bra. I mean, I was a huge. I mean, I was a huge. I mean, I was a huge.

I mean, I was a huge. I mean, I was a huge. I mean, I was a huge. I mean, I was a huge. I mean, I was a huge. I mean, I was a huge. I mean, I was a huge. I mean, I was a huge. I mean, I was a huge. I mean, I was a huge. I mean, I as a kid. Role model? Yeah, for sure. Stefan, for sure. Okay, okay. I was gonna say, I hope not wardrobe role model.

Yeah, I mean, I was a huge. You wouldn't have pulled this, that's for sure. I grew up watching Family Matters, T.J. Fridays. Like it was definitely, I was a kid during that generation. So, and then, yeah, I was a huge fan. And so there's definitely, this is a pretty cool moment for me. So I'm very excited to have you.

Do you have your new book out? Obviously that you're releasing. It's a very fascinating book. I mean, you really talk a lot about a very- Wait, you read it? I had, I read parts of it. Don't lie to me. You read parts of it and then-

You're on film. I have, we have the whole book right here. Holy smokes. Zach and my team read your whole book in two nights. You read it in two nights? I was like, hey, I got a daughter. Is this Zach or is Zach the other Zach? Zach, you'll meet Zach.

All right, I gotta get Zach in here. But I was like, hey, I got a lot of shows to do. I'm gonna page through it, read some chapters. I asked how much could he read so I could prepare for the interview. Zach went and started reading it, and he texted me, he's like, this is a great book. And he's like finished half the book in night one,

finished the rest in two nights. He burned right through it. So, to let everyone know, Growing Up Urkel is an easy read. It's a great, easy read. It's full of fascinating stories, and he's sending me all these notes, and I'm like, holy shit, this is very fascinating.

This is so fun. I don't think people realize that compliments in another sector of media or art or expression, they just, they land differently over time. I've been in the business for 40 years. So to say, if someone say that they've enjoyed a book that I wrote and I know how many late nights that I stayed up trying to meet the deadlines

of turning in these chapters, it just, it's really satisfying. Were you nervous writing this book? Yeah, no. When I printed out the first draft, I just kind of had a little meltdown. I was like, this is shit. This is terrible. Why did you think that? I mean, come on. I mean, we've all written college papers and stuff like that or whatever, right? And you go back and you read them and you're like, what the heck? You know, and, you know, it's just like any first draft. And then you get through the editing process and you're like, okay, wait a minute, I can reorder this, I can cut that.

And it starts to come together. And I had a very supportive editor at Simon & Schuster, Yadon. And I don't know, it was a real therapeutic experience to be quite honest. Really? I mean, you do obviously very much talk about your entire career, your life growing up. The question was, I mean, you said it was therapeutic, but I was curious, were you self-conscious reading it back, wondering like how much are people gonna be interested in this?

Like just knowing that it was, you know, the book was about you and deciding what was something that you should share or not. But I guess what part also was therapeutic? The part that was therapeutic was going back and revisiting certain relationships. Like I called up Kelly Williams, she's always Kelly to me. She's not Laura, but to you guys, she's Laura, Laura, Laura.

All right, so, calling up Kelly and discussing what our relationship was and things that she would be comfortable with me sharing. Just, I don't know, there's two sides to every story. And so I worry when somebody tells me a side of the story where they did nothing wrong at all. Right, so I wanted to make sure that the book was self-reflective enough where it was like,

eh, I think I was a little shit right here in this space. I think I might have been a little shit right here. Or here's where I was dorky. I talk about my first date ever. I couldn't even drive. My co-star drove me on my first date. Darius McCrary and I, who played Eddie Winslow, are only six months apart in age. And that's something I really kind of wanted the whole world to finally put together.

Like, okay. I had that in the notes, and I actually asked Zach, I was like, how close in age were they? Because you met, and I was surprised, because on the show, he plays someone much older than you. On the show, he's a giant. Darius, so the day I ever met Darius, Darius was, you know, 6'1", 220 pounds, and I was 5'0", and this much soaking wet.

But Darius is born in May, and I'm born in November in the same year. And, you know, so Daris was always doing everything way earlier than me. I remember him driving to the set at 14 years old with his mom in the passenger seat, no license, no nothing, just pulling into his parking spot. It's fun.

That's true. Yeah. The 90s are different, dog. You know what I'm saying? They definitely were different. You in the 80s, you didn't have to buckle up your kids, man. You didn't get arrested for that. You didn't have car seats.

Yeah, you didn't have car seats. They just kind of traveled in the 80s, you didn't have to buckle up your kids, man. You didn't get arrested for that. You didn't have car seats. Yeah, you didn't have car seats. They just kind of traveled in the car. And were people like, oh, he's famous, it's fine? I mean, like I said, he looked like a man. So as long as you're not doing anything illegal, you're not going to get pulled over. I guess so, yeah. It was different back then. It was different.

Yeah. So, you know, I loved it. I enjoyed writing about Darius. Darius does some lunatic things sometimes in his own private life, but he'll still always be a brother to me. And just talking about the three of our... Our childhoods together, we were the triumvirate. We were all pretty much the same age, same grade,

you know, same prom year, same graduating year, all that kind of stuff. So we lived a lot of things together. Were you, like, were you going to school while filming? Yes. I talk about that in the book, too, where I went to public school while I was filming the show. And it was my mother was adamant that I go to public school. So were you the most popular kid in school? Depends on which school we're talking about.

I went to a school where I was the only black kid in the entire school. Oh, wow. That was an interesting dynamic. And then I left that school and I went to a school that was almost kind of like the school from Lean on Me with Joe Clark as the principal. It's a great movie. And then in that school, it wasn't such a good thing to be so popular, especially with my image.

But I talk about what it was to go to school. Like pretty much my schedule was going to school was every two to three weeks, I went to school for a complete week. So I enjoyed popping into my classes and being caught up. And the kids are like, we haven't seen you for two weeks and you're taking tests with us and answering questions.

It was kind of like a little magic trick. I actually enjoyed. So how long did the process of writing growing up Urkel take? Cause Nick wrote a book, it took him years. Yeah, okay, this one you're not going to believe. We got rushed, wrote it in a year. Anxiety.

Yeah, and it really was six months. Wow. Because once you get into production, this is not like turning in a paper to, you know, a college professor. There are delivery items and there's a whole delivery schedule. And so in fairness, I definitely had two ghost writers that I was charged with working with. Let me just educate people out there.

If you've never published a book, nobody's paying you to write a book without somebody right beside you who has already delivered a book. It's almost like hiring a contractor to build a home. Nobody's gonna hire a contractor who's never built a home, a completed home before. So yeah, I had the option. I could have phoned it in like a lot of celebrities do. And I don't need to say names,

but I was really more inspired by the people like Jeanette McCurdy's who I really just connected with her book. I thought it was so authentic from a child acting perspective. I was like, oh, she telling, she telling. She's the one. It's called- My mom, my-

I wish my mom was dead or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, she beats me- I heard that was amazing. She beats me on the title. I don't, I tried to- Well, thank God you don't. I mean, yeah.

But I was like, I can't throw mom under the bus like that. My mom wouldn't like that. But it was a great book. It inspired me. And I really took on the challenge of writing my own book. And so, you know, you're going to get a lot of people that have opinions about, well, this should be taken out. This can be taken out. This can be reworded this way. And in this day and age, I was actually blessed to have two females that worked alongside me to do that because once it once Something becomes literary. There's no taking out of context. It's like it's printed right here So there's a different level of nerves. You know what I'm saying for sure

When you audition for Family Matters, yeah, how did that character develop? Did you always know you're playing a guy who was a nerd? Like how did you feel about that? Did you really feel like you had to get into that character or did you kind of feel like, you know, maybe I'm a nerdy kid or like who did you relate more I guess when you started? Ultimately, man, I was just a 12 year old kid who wanted to get a Sega Genesis. That's it. That's it. Did you ever get one? Yes. It was, so my dad came up with a, so in this year, Sega Genesis came out in August of 1989.

I auditioned for Family Matters in September of 1989. I wasn't allowed to get things that size unless it was for my birthday, Christmas, or I'd gotten a report card. So my dad had come up with this ingenious idea that anytime I went on an audition, if I booked a job, I could get one of anything I wanted. And think about that, it's actually brilliant.

It's like, what do you mean? But you're telling a 12 year old, you can get one of anything you want. And I mean, if I'm going to Toys R Us, Circuit City, these are the stores that mattered back then. Right? I mean, anything that I wanted was gonna cost, at the most,200 to $300.

And that's if I'm like, yo, can you get that from the top shelf way up there? Right. And, uh, and I wanted a second Genesis. And so I hated going on auditions at this point in my life. I wasn't booking a lot of jobs. The auditions would come like once maybe every month or two. And I generally had to miss basketball practice to go on the audition.

And even when I'd get there, I would still had a sense for the business because I'd been acting since I was three. I would not even feel right for the roles. But I saw the description of this character and it was really just a black kid doing a terrible Ed Grimley and Pee Wee Herman to try to get a Sega Genesis.

That's incredible. Did you, when, I'm curious, cause Steve Urkel was the star of the show, right? I mean, in your opinion. You don't think so? Come on. I mean, I talk about that. Did you think it was,

No, it was just, you know, it was just, it was, it was, look, it was just, you know, technically speaking, I just, I always like acknowledging, I was like, hey man, I wasn't the star of the show. And behind the scenes, there were a lot of ways in which I was always reminded, you're not the star of the show. When I went out in public, okay, everything changed.

And I accepted that role model responsibility. I wasn't, you know, Charles Barkley about it. I felt like I'm a role model. You know, I accepted that. But the show was always, you know, it was intended to be geared around Harriet and Carl. Yeah, that's what I thought. I mean, I even remember as a kid when the show came out,

I mean, I honestly think I maybe watched the pilot. Like, I was a big fan. I watched the show before I was on the show, and I didn't like the show. Oh, that's right, you weren't even... You were only supposed to be on for one episode. Yeah, like, the show, I came on episode 12. Ah, that's right. So I can even. You were only supposed to be on for one episode. Yeah, like the show, I came on episode 12. Ah, that's right.

So I can remember it consciously as a kid watching the show, because first of all, a black show that would come on TV back then was a big deal, especially for black folks. We were like, oh, we gotta see what they're doing. And I remember there was a scene with. Family members was like the first, like other than the Cosby show,

I grew up watching the Cosby show. So of course we get called a Cosby knockoff and whatever, they got called a Cosby. I wasn't there yet. They got called a Cosby knockoff. So I- Is that true? Were you only supposed to be on one episode?

Yeah, only one episode. And then the audience just loved you so much. And they just nailed it. We had a frat that showed up to the live taping that week. And they really identified with a nerd character and so they would chant my character's names in all the scenes that I wasn't in like we want the nerd we want the nerd and and so I remember walking to the parking structure it's Sony Studios right here which was then Laura Mar studios at the

end of that taping and I was walking with the frat because I parked where the audience parked because I was only a guest frat because I parked where the audience parked because I was only a guest. And they're like, man, you're a funny man and giving me high fives and everything. And little do I know, a deal is being made for me to return on Monday. Wow.

Wow. How did your co-stars react to that? Well, like I said, that was rough in the beginning. You know, and I think that's been highlighted enough in over the years. I like to, in the book, show how we ultimately did grow together. Sure.

And there's enough pictures even in the book to support that. We're the only black show that's ever filmed in Europe. We did a two-part episode in Paris. That was a magical time. Wow. We did episodes in Disney World, when that was the thing, where every show had to go to Disney World, right?

You know, we really grew as a family. You don't do 215 episodes, man, if everybody's just fighting and not getting along. We had incredible laughs on that show. It's just the reality of it is, look, it was the 90s. And the 90s are our 60s. So, you know, life has changed, values have changed and sometimes people's memories get a little fuzzy and foggy when they look back on things. Family Matters is still is the longest running sitcom with a predominantly black cast. Second. Second.

What's the first? To the Jeffersons. You're too young to remember the Jeffersons. Oh yeah. That's like the first one. Oh, Jeffersons. Oh my gosh. She's like, oh my God, what is that? I don't know the Jeffersons. You're too young to remember the Jeffersons. Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. She's like, oh, my God. What is that? I don't know the Jeffersons. You just made me feel so old. Anyway.

I know the Jeffersons. You don't, do I? I know the Jeffersons. You got a hot wife. You're too young to remember the Jeffersons, though. Y'all are old. Literally. But did you realize how important that was at the...

You did? No, I did. I did. They did something to us that kind of registered to me. I saw a lot when I was a young kid. So I, my brain kind of clicked on an adult level, but I didn't understand human nature yet, if that makes any sense, right?

So it's like, hmm, that's interesting. Why is that? And you're a kid, so you're not processing it on an adult level. But I remember they hung a banner after our first 100 episodes. And they said, congratulations after our first 100 episodes and they said congratulations on your first 100 episodes and that banner hung over our audience bleachers for the next

200 episodes, but I remember when they hung it after the first 100 I got a little nervous because I was probably around 15 years old and I was like, oh shit like years old and I was like, oh shit, like they expect us to do another 100 of these? And I knew where I was in my development and I knew I was struggling with the voice at times and just, you know, puberty in my brain. I'm like, and that first always stood out. I'm like, that's not a typo. Like they know more about the business of where we're going than we do, obviously. And over the years they've made clear sense.

They did. You mentioned you went on your first day with Darius. You talked about how cool he was. He was so cool. You kind of identified as someone who wasn't in the book. Oh yeah, no, I was a different version of a nerd. So reading that part of the book, I was kind of fascinated. And like I said, I was a different version of a nerd. So, you know, reading that part of the book, I was kind of fascinated, and like I said,

I appreciate you allowing me to be a little bit of a fan here, but. Man, nah, go in, dawg. I'm on your couch, dawg, do your thing. Come on. But like, not to sound dorky, but like, when Stephane came out on the show, I was like, I just thought that was the coolest

fucking thing as a kid. That's so funny. And I don't know what it was, I don't know. Maybe everyone loves a glow up or something I was I was an athletic kid but like something about that when every time you Transformed into Stefan I was just like this is the coolest fucking kid in the world But I was also more like oh, I think is the first time I really understood like acting in a sense Yeah, because like, you know as a kid're just like, oh, this is a nerd. The nerd comes in and then all of a sudden,

you take a potion and you become this cool guy. You can play basketball. It was a real potion. But I also, when reading that book, Boss Soss was on his shelves. Reading that book, I was surprised to hear that because I saw you play Stefan. You were this cool guy with all this charisma.

And then you read that part about your first date and you almost describe yourself more Urkel-like? And I'm just curious, who was more the kid growing up? Were you more Stefan or were you more Steve? I was definitely, so first of all, the trick of Stefan, anyway, it just says, the acting trick, was Stefan was just, he over-exaggerated a lot of his movements and he over complimented everybody.

So he would tell Carly lost weight when he hadn't, he would tell her, he would tell Harriet, she was, she looked younger than Laura. He would, you know, he would just do that. So there were just certain tricks to the way he moved, the way he walked, the way he talked. On the personal front, my mannerisms were always far closer to Stefanon. Absolutely.

But as far as figuring out girls was concerned, I was the only child in the complete duns. My mom was somewhat of a control freak and she'll admit it now. And so she, my curfew followed my shoe size in my grade. It was 10th grade, size 10, being by 10 o'clock, 11th grade, size 11. That's a good way to do it.

No, she didn't consciously do that. I put this math together in the afterlife. What happens when you're size 13? Right. So when I got to be a 12 and a half, it was like, trust me, it was, it was a lot of turmoil. There's been a lot of turmoil in my house in my senior year, though. But because of that, interacting with girls and understanding

what teenage girls were being drawn to, I was just a little off. You know, I was a little off. I wanted, I was very, I had a very movie romance idea of dating. So everything I saw in the movies is what I thought you were supposed to do. I was supposed to take her out to a nice restaurant, I was supposed to take her out to a nice restaurant.

I was supposed to take her out to a nice restaurant. Who finally told you that it's not that deep? Oh no, that's Darius slowly eroding. I don't know what. He's like reel that shit in. Introducing the bad boy to the scenario. How did the character Stefan even come to be? Were you like, hey guys, I can play,

I'm really good at basketball, I'm pretty cool? Like who came up with that? You know, again, you have to be around people in our business who see more in you than you see in yourself. And until that happens, you're just, you're only going to grow so much. So my showrunner, David DuClan, who I haven't seen

or heard from in years, and that's okay, because he's moved to Chicago, he's not in the business anymore. But David was my captain and my hero, and he just always saw more in me as a performer than I ever saw in myself. For me, I knew how to get the laugh as being the guy in the suspenders. That was as easy to get as a prolific NBA scorer. I mean, I could just make a face. I could do, and I was like,

I'm gonna get a laugh off that. I'm gonna get a laugh off that. And it's like a kid, you know, a kid, when a kid gets a room rollin', they start milking it. It was like, oh, this kid, he's got everybody going, right? But Stefan was David's creation. And when I read the script at table reading, and I'll never forget when we walked out of table reading,

you know, he was, he wanted my feedback. And I was like, Dave, I think he's boring. And, and he's like, no, Jaleel, trust me. Like people need to see this side of you. And so that, that just shows you how, even though I was going to public school, I was, you know, I was turning in my work that just shows you how disconnected I was. And we didn't have all this social media. We didn't have all of this social media. So you don't know how you're viewed around the world. You don't know how people are seeing you in other parts of the country, et cetera, et

cetera, et cetera. So I thought he was born at first and David assured me that people wouldn't see it that way. And listen, I hit that door for that live studio audience in that white suit. And to this day, that's one of the most thunderous screams, stomping of the feet, loudest bleachers I've ever heard in my life. It was so loud, I really wanted to break character and be like, are you serious?

And I remember. But I didn't, but I didn't, because I took real pride in not breaking character. Breaking character basically means like, if you really got a good scene going, the laughs are just going. Sometimes as actors, we know we can get you to break character, like, oh, I'm about to get him to laugh.

You would see Seinfeld do your bloopers. We have those same kind of bloopers too. And, but I didn't like anybody getting me to break character. Like, I wanted to always make sure we got the best take in the can. Did you notice fans in public look at you or treat you differently once Stefon came onto the scene? best take in the can. Did you notice fans in public look at you or treat you differently once Stefan came onto the scene?

Black girls. Black girls specifically. Very much so. Like, black women in general don't even really refer to me as Steve. They almost kind of like just leapfrog. My whole legacy for black women tends to be Stefan. Okay, wow, fascinating. I know you talk in your book a lot about the sensitivity around

people referring you to as Steve or trying to get you to do the voice or the line as someone, I don't know much you know about me, a long time ago as the bachelor. And so- I know a little bit about you. I know that much. So yeah, even to this day day it's been like almost a decade but like someone had asked me to hold a rose. I fucking cringe you know. It's like I very much relate to that. How have you been able to find that balance because like I know that like when I first you know got done with The

Bachelor I think especially on reality TV you really want to not just be pigeonholed into that. At the same time, it's like this recognition of like, well this is how people in the public know me. And I've basically spent a decade trying to find that balance of like, how do I give my audience the things they're looking for while simultaneously trying to show them other aspects of what I can do or my personality.

How have you balanced that? I wrote the book to answer people's questions. I've had decades of questions that have been asked to me. And once I started just in literary form answering those questions, then it started to become a manuscript. And that really was essentially my proposal for Simon & Schuster. So grab that book right there and read the opening part right there to the left and what does that question say? I'm dyslexic so bear with me. Does it bother you when people still call you Urkel? Yeah this is a question I get all the

time. Well you read it. No! This is your show. I'm on the Nick Files show. What are you doing? I'm the guest. This is a question I get all the time, and it's an interesting one because the question lands differently from different people. That makes sense. Over the years, I've trained myself to hear their tone when saying the name or asking the question. Okay, I see where this is going. And thank you for playing along. But it was just like I wanted people to understand how much the book is kind of about you

and my interaction with you over the years and how self-aware I was about certain moments and things that were going on in my life. But listen, when you're a public figure period, I've learned that anybody can come up to someone and say something stupid to them. I remember I was hanging out with Donovan McNabb, the quarterback from the Philadelphia Eagles one time,

and he had a dude in a comedy store that just went on and on and on about chunky soup. I mean, just, if you remember those chunky soup commercials he used to do, right, it was just like, this dude did a solid 10 minutes on Donovan and his mama and chunky soup. And it was kind of funny too. And I could see Donovan's face and I'm seeing him like, damn, I'm normally the dude in a comedy store that would have to withstand this like, he went to Chunky Soup Root. I didn't see that coming today, right? And it's just like, not everybody is going to have the best social graces. And I think that's common for anyone on the planet. So when you're the bachelor, or I'm the guy that

played Stephen Stefan, you know, they want the rose out of you. They want, did I do that out of me? You know, that pushes things too far. If you're having a, you know, they want the rose out of you. They want, did I do that out of me? You know, it, that pushes things too far. If you're having a, you know, a romantic meal with your, your, your wife or something like that and you know, some guy comes up and he's like, you know, I can't stand with my wife and pretend to give her a rose. It's like suddenly that's, it turns performative. Like he stick a quarter in my ass. You know, I'm like, and, and there's what you just described happen, like

has happened so many times. Yeah, I'm sure. I know. It's just like, no. And what I've just trained myself to do is, there are people that they just push it, and you can see them pushing it. There's a sense of almost, you owe this to me. Oh yeah, exactly.

I've watched you, I'm a fan. Exactly. And those are just people with, those are people, I'm telling you, they probably in general have very poor social graces. So I try to pause and just kind of like give it a second before I give a full reaction, especially if I get, like I said, somebody that even uses the character name. The good thing is millennials for the most part, they call me Jaleel because they're Google generation. So if they like you for anything, they look you up,

and then they just instinctively know you more from what they've seen of you online. So I hate to show people's age, but the only people really still asking me to say, did I do that, are Gen X and Boomers. So I try to have a little bit more. Which is harder to be like, rude to, because it's like somebody's grandma.

Exactly. So that's what I said. Sometimes it is the grandma's who kind of are off putting in public. They can be pushy. They're very pushy. They're like, I'm old. You're old. They want to touch your hair. They want to put their hands on you. They want to get physical with you though. There's a bit of objectifying. Absolutely. How many times does a woman come up and just absolutely disrespect your presence while he's dating you?

It happens more times. It's a lot of like, take this photo. Ha ha, dude. Hand it to you. When we first started dating, yeah, when we weren't as public, I mean now she's my wife and it happens a lot less now, but at first, oh my God, yeah.

They would literally just hand Natalie the phone, be like, can you take this picture? You know, it's just like, and we were very, like, Would you take it? I would. Well then, she did at first. If you got the prize, be like, can you take this picture? You know, it's just like, and we were very, like, would you take it? I would. Well then, she did at first. If you got the prize, come on, give me a good one. I would.

She did it first, but then I would stop, I wouldn't let them ask her anymore. Nah, that means he's in love with you. I know. Cause I do the same thing. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, that's my wife, that's my daughter. We can find somebody else around here.

Oh yeah. Well, yeah, it's disrespectful. You know, now it's just like, if you know me, you should know her. I swear, I wish I could teach people though, the graces of approaching somebody famous. I mean, the best approach I ever had was actually, it was an 11 year old, Iranian kid off a plane.

I got off a plane and a kid comes up to me and he's got his phone and he says, uh, can I take a picture with you? And he was already, he already, he had it fired up. So he had it fired up, but he didn't see, I didn't see the other side. I just saw he had it in his hand. Yeah, sure. Boom. He was ready to selfie. Bam. Done. Um, all right, man. Nice to meet you. Cool. Great. You ain't cool. Get ready to walk out. He's like, can you sign it? He had already flipped it to the portion of his phone that would allow me to take my finger and sign.

And I told him, I said, dude, if I had a bigger company, I'd want to hire you on this one. This kid was ready. So the lesson in all of that though is, one, read the situation. Don't intrude on someone while they're eating. You know, try not to intrude on someone if they're having, if the body language says they're on the phone,

they're on the phone. That's, oh my God. I'm sorry to bother you. No, you're not. Yeah. You know, and I'm not saying this necessarily that these are absolute rules. I'm just saying if you want to increase your odds

of a positive experience, listen to what I'm saying right now. Read the situation, try not to disturb them while they're eating. If they're on the phone, don't do that either. If they're on a date, okay, pay attention to that too. Be ready. If you do come in hot, be ready. Don't just assume and have your stuff filming already

because some people will get pissed like that right off the bat if they already see that you're filming. I try not to do that because there's a game around that too. That's a separate conversation. You would agree that if you can, you wanna say yes to as many people as possible. You wanna, yeah. We were in Nashville a couple weeks ago

and this group of people recognized me and this older lady came up, I was holding my daughter. She's like, are you Nick from The Bachelor? I'm like, yeah. She's like, can I take a picture? I'm like, sure. And then she just pulls out her picture and just starts taking pictures of me. Oh yeah, yeah, no. I'm like, yeah, she's like, can I take a picture? I'm like, sure. And then she just pulled out her picture and just starts taking pictures of me.

Oh, yeah, yeah, no. I'm like, come on, baby, get in. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. I'll get in the picture, you know? And I'm like, I don't want my daughter in this photo. You know, like, it's like, Jesus Christ. Anyways, yeah, it's a, I mean, like I said, I couldn't imagine what you have to go through

because like it's, you know, being Steve Urkel from Family Matters is a lot of a bigger deal than just being one of the many bachelors that we had. Nah, fame is fame though now. It's changed, I'm telling you, Nick. But the intensity though. With each person in different areas of the country,

even the world, the reactions are always gonna vary. A big part of your book, you talk about a lot of the fascinating people you've met throughout the years. I mean it's a... You be name dropping. It is pretty cool. I met everybody. You met everybody.

You met everybody. The only person I did not meet was Madonna. Damn. Somehow I did not meet Madonna. Yeah, you can probably make that happen. I got a great story on her though. Want me to share? No.

Oh my God. Cause my boy would kill me. Oh, okay. Madonna was a pimp though. Madonna was a pimp. So you have a friend you met Madonna. Okay, good to know, good to know. I don't even know where to start there,

but like Jay-Z is some, the story you talk about Jay-Z is fascinating. Where you ask him to play basketball? Can you share that story? There's so many good stories. I'd love for you to tease some of these and share some of these anecdotal stories. There's certain people I mentioned.

And if I mentioned anybody, by the way, it's really not a name drop like, yo, I'll pick that back up. I mentioned them because there were lessons around my interaction with them that I was absorbing very rapidly. And when I look back on it, those lessons are very vivid. And so, you know, I had been to nightclubs in one way, but the particular night that I went,

I actually, you know, you've heard the term Bublin' at Dublin's. It's a lyric in one of his songs. So it was like, I've been to Dublin with JC. So I'm like, you know, having lived that moment, it was like he and his crew exposed us to a completely different motivation behind going to the nightclub.

Most people were going to do it at nightclub to get lit, maybe close the deal with somebody to try to hook up with, you know, but there are other motivations why professional people will partake in nightclub activity. And he just, yeah. What are those motivations? They put on a show.

Well, mainly promotion. Mainly promotion, you know what I'm saying? So he's working. Oh yeah, I wanna be, it doesn't look like work, but there's an effect that, you know, that those rappers wanted to create back when when nightclubs operated that way And then you asked him to play basketball No, I asked him to play basketball. He just kind of blew me off a little bit. That's

But you did play basketball game with our kelly. No, I did play basketball with our kelly and was he good? He was athletic How about that that's a pretty pitch a little fit he was athletic. How about that? Did he pitch a little fit? He was athletic, but I got a lot more than I bargained for. Play a ball with our kid. I bet you did. How so? You know, he's a difficult customer on a basketball court.

It was a very memorable set of games, man. As someone who's been famous for a very long time, been in the business for a long time, met a lot of famous people, some of the people you've interacted with, R. Kelly included, Bill Cosby, obviously have a very problematic path. In general, what is your opinion of Hollywood?

I mean, right now we're in the midst of the P. Diddy situation. Have you ever met him? What was that? I never got invited to any parties. I constantly say rejection is God's protection. I got left off the white party list. I never really went out of my way to get myself invited to any of those things anyway. Thank God. And that's just the way it is. In the book I address it. I address the historical context of these individuals

because I don't ever want people to think that I'm discussing these people without respect to people who have been their victims or convictions that have taken place. So I addressed that specifically, you know, and that was something I worked with our editor. But it was like, there are also individuals that a lot of people cross paths with, puffy through a lot of parties. I mean, a lot of people attended these parties regularly, and now everybody's gone quiet.

I think there's a way to be, to share what it is that you may have experienced honestly, and not just for clickbait, and also independent of anything that may have taken place after you left or in closed doors that you weren't invited in. And so that's what I try to do when I talk about R. Kelly, when I talk about Mr. Cosby. Even that, it's like I'm, from my generation,

I'm still ingrained to call him Mr. Cosby, even that. It's like I'm, from my generation, I'm still ingrained to call him Mr. Cosby. Like you don't understand how much he insisted upon that. You know, how can- He insisted you calling him Mr. Cosby? Well, everyone around him called him Mr. Cosby or Mr. C. He insisted upon these titles. And when you were a child, especially, you know, I'm Generation X, adults can do no wrong. If an adult tells you to do something, you do it.

Values have changed. And that's part of what my book intends to do is to say, hey man, look, let's have a nostalgic moment for the values that we miss, but let's also wave goodbye to some things that need to go and never need to come back. There are a few things in this world that I live, breathe, die, exist for.

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for free. Life360.com code VIALL. That's Life360.com code VIALL. How do you think the industry has changed, or maybe it hasn't, but hopefully it has. Oh, it has. In terms of protecting children and child actors. I think it's changed in the same way that sexual harassment in the workplace has changed.

There's a lot more talking to's before work even begins. HR is seeing to it that a lot more people are given a safe space to report anything they may have seen or may have heard. Ultimately, it comes down to something a lot simpler, really, when it comes to just kids working in showbiz. A lot of kids go completely unsupervised, though, by their parents in these work environments. It's where it's like, you just drop your kid off

on this movie studio a lot, and it's like, ooh, I've got these things to do, and I'm out and I'll be back, exactly. And if you do that, you are pretty much creating some of the problem for yourself. I had a hover mom. My mom was always popping up, making sure that I was aware of her presence.

I could never get a free moment without my mom spying on me, trying to find me or locate me on a movie studio a lot. And but that hovering also sends a message to people who would be predators. That's very, very important. The other thing, though, is parents have struggled to maintain their careers while their children are in these work environments as well. So my mom had a job when I got Family Matters, and she was sneaking off work to get me to the audition and then once I started working

on the show and she and my dad are in flux they're like well Michael I don't know how long this is gonna last I don't want to quit my job but somebody's got to be down there with Jalil and so then it becomes you know paying a friend who has a day off to watch me and that type of thing. So, you know, parents have their own journey separate and apart from the kids. And I don't think a lot of those journeys are really shared. You know, what were the parents doing at the time of a lot of these things?

If you're just abandoning your kid in a workplace environment that's really exclusively for adults, how much of that is just Hollywood and how much of that is abandoning your duty as a parent. I suppose with Hollywood, I think you just assume that if your kids are on other adults, there wouldn't be predators around them.

See, that's different. My mom thought the other way. Maybe that was just her hood background. She grew up in South Central, whatever. So she didn't trust any adults. Yeah. So she came at it from a different, and it was weird, she didn't trust any adults,

but at the same time time I had to obey adults no matter what they said. So that dichotomy was there too. I get what you're saying. But yeah, I guess it's just more like you just never would imagine that if you're dropping your kid off, you know, it's kind of like you drop your kid off at school.

I mean, I know that's not, you know, the set's not school, but. That's different, because these are educators. These are people who have a background in working with kids. And even then, like teachers were different back in the 90s and what? I got a chapter in my book where I talk about a teacher

just getting completely out of pocket with me in middle school. So now teachers have to deal with kids with phones, filming what's going on in classrooms. Things have changed, with kids with phones. Filming what's going on in classrooms, things have changed tremendously. You open up about your quote unquote first kiss. That was wild. That was an episode where you were 13, right?

And a 30 year old woman stuck her tongue down your throat. She got caught up in phobia. Yeah. I mean, how did... Yeah, how does that happen? How does that happen and how, like what was your mom's response to that? Even my mom.

You know, my dad was there. And, you know, we rehearsed all week with one level of kissing. And, you know, a studio audience has a way of just kind of jacking up the adrenaline for any scene. And so when that scene came around, and Steve got hot at the dice table and in a speakeasy where he and Eddie had no business,

and right before my last role, this woman was supposed to just grab me and plant a kiss on me because she's winning all this money with me and my role. And once again, I didn't break character. So even when I come out of that kiss, I'm just like, okay, I know I felt something there that I haven't felt all week,

but we're not gonna ruin this take. And so when they said cut, I remember just going to my dressing room and I'm a kid, so I started crying. And I was in the bathroom, my dad came in, he's like, what's wrong, what's wrong, what's wrong? And I was just like, just ask David, we gotta clean, gotta clean.

And that's just shop talk for, are we moving on to the next scene? You know, they check the gate, the cameras. And so then David comes in and he's talking with my dad, and it's like, what happened, what's happening? It's like, I think she kissed him a little vigorously. So David, my dad, start kinda laughing And so Dave and my dad are, start kind of laughing. They're just laying there, they're laughing at it.

It's like- Almost like a right of passage. Yeah, exactly. They're pat me on the back and they're like, all right, all right, you okay? You know, you need a moment? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was like, it was, and I remember them,

my dad and Dave, you know, distinctly, you know, saying, you know, wow, we're really gonna laugh about this in 10 years. And then when I went back out to the set, even the crew guys, all the camera guys, Pepper and the guys, the griffs and the gaffers, she really gave it to you, young fella. And it was just like, it was a different time.

So even when I tell this story, I have to be clear in this, please, I don't want that woman attacked for like, oh, you assaulted him or just any other. It was a different time. She pushed it. She didn't touch me anyplace inappropriate. But as far as that kiss was concerned, we did not rehearse it like that. And it went far.

And it was, that was my first kiss. Well, also to your point though, as you know, they, point though, regardless of how she handled that moment, it was still in the script to have an adult woman kiss a 13-year-old boy. Oh yeah, they lay it on me too. It was supposed to be a fake laying on me. It's just that night it turned into the real laying on me. Did the response of your dad, all these crew members,

did that change how you feel about it? Exactly. It did. So exactly, you got a smart woman over here, she's over here reading my mind. Did that change how you feel about it? Exactly. It did. Exactly. You got a smart woman over here, she's over here reading my mind. But no, exactly. It changed how I felt about it because it made me feel like, wait a minute, am I over dramatizing something?

Is this just something? And I could tell when he said, in 10 years, we're going to be laughing about this. So I guess that's the way I'm supposed to be kissing girls at some point. At some point, right? It was a moment of hyper-masculinity that was just blase back then. So when I share this story, I always like people to say,

hey look, just try to have respect for changing times, what they were, and what they don't need to be anymore. That's what it's, the story is more about just how different things are now. Oh yeah. How more aware we've been and just how detached society we were. When I looked at the film Quiet on Set, because I finally broke down and said, I want to see this documentary.

I thought some of the things honestly that those kids went through were far more traumatizing than my kids. I want to see this documentary. I thought some of the things, honestly, that those kids went through were far more traumatizing than my kids. That's just my personal opinion. Especially with the, I think one of the boys had, they had him dress up with like a bigger nose and they really turned him into a black caricature of himself and with the licking and the toes

and all that stuff. It was very, a lot of sexual. Yeah, it was so much just like overtly sexualizing of situations that I'm like, look, if I made it out of 215 episodes with a 30 year old woman slipping me some tongue, I'm going to be all right. Maybe that's just the 90s and me coming out, you know, my own Gen X coming out. But it's a story worth sharing, but there's, trust me, I'm watching kids that have gone through far worse.

And I think those kids, they just, I think their value was taken away from them. When I looked at that, you know, those kids were kicking ass for Nickelodeon. They were bringing in big viewers, big dollars, and they were part of a machine that really exploited what they meant to the machine. I didn't have to live that.

Yeah, well, we're very glad. Speaking of Diddy, I'm just finishing this conversation, it's almost, it's like I'm glad we've had this awareness, I'm glad we are realizing that was inappropriate. But it's 2024 now and someone like Diddy is finally being caught. And we're realizing he's been committing these crimes for a very long time.

And you almost have to ask yourself, are there still predators out there in Hollywood not being held accountable despite us? Again, it's like from a corporate standpoint, yeah, we know what's inappropriate, we have HR, we have these sex coordinators, all these things. Do you, in your gut, do you think there's still

a lot more dangerous people getting away with whatever they've been getting away with? Unfortunately, more people get away with things than get caught. What you have to hope for is that when people like Harvey Weinstein and Diddy, and I threw that name in there so that it's not turned into a hip hop issue also, and Diddy still has to stay in trial,

so I gotta be careful with my words. For me, the tape with him and Cassie was enough. So I don't know anything about the trial stuff that's coming, we'll see that that but the tape with the Cassie stuff That's we can have our opinions based on yeah. Yeah, that's that's there you go That's that's you can have my opinion is pretty much swirl around that but you just have to hope that the consequences that are associated with any of that kind of stuff Deterr

People who have committed those convincing offenses from dipping back into that pot and not being repeat offenders. That's all you can hope for, really. But people in general, I don't care men or women, it's a human nature thing. People in power will abuse power. And all you can do in any workplace, in any home is to create as many checks and balances so that people in power are held accountable. You're a father? Yes, I am. How has that experience been for you? It's awesome, you're a girl dad too though, right?

Yeah. All right, how old? She's nine months. She's nine months, wow. You guys look really well rested to have a nine month old. She is a really great baby. She's a great baby. Okay, all right.

Or maybe your nanny game is just that nice. We don't have a nanny, just us. You don't? We tag team. Oh, yes. What? And she's a good baby. She's a great baby. Okay, all right. Or maybe your nanny game is just that nice. We don't have a nanny, just us. You don't? We tag team. What? And she's a good baby. She's a great baby. We have babysitters.

These people are super human. They look really good. She's a good baby. To have a nine month old. She is a good baby. Why? Now our next could be crazy. The next is already in the making.

No. I mean, we just, we know we want another child. Okay. Yeah. You guys feel for me. I mean, we just, we know we want another child. Okay. Yeah. You guys feel for me. Everyone always says, everyone, Jaleel, everyone always says the second child, you know, the first is what makes you wanna have another

because the first is so good and then the second is that shit. And then also our first dog, Jeff, easy peasy. And then Steve's a fuck. I love that your dog is such a human name. Yeah, with Jeff and Steve. Jeff and Steve. Jeff and Steve. Jeff and Steve. Jeff and Steve, yeah.

Yes, my daughter's 15, man. I'm very much a girl dad. Well, she's 15. Yeah. I mean, what is, I mean. Teenage years. Yeah, what's that like? How's that adjustment going?

No, she just, you know, she's bucking for freedoms that she doesn't completely need. I'm actually more lenient with her than my mom was with me. So I struggle with that a little bit because I think we want to make up for every mistake our parents made. So if you felt like your parents made a mistake, you want to do it differently.

But I don't want to be extreme also, but yeah, no, she wants to go to parties. She wants to, these girls are hopping out, dresses up to here, she wants to go to parties. You know, she wants to, you know, these girls are hopping out, you know, dresses up to here, boots up to here, and you know, six of them all piled in an Uber, headed to parties starting at 10 and 11 o'clock at night, and I'm like, let's chill. How do you balance? Because like, you know, growing up, you're always here.

Like, the more strict you are, the more they want to rebel or something like that. So how do you find the balance between giving your daughter, and I'd love some advice, you are, the more they wanna rebel or something like that. So how do you find the balance between giving your daughter, and I'd love some advice, cause I'm sure River, that's our daughter, she'll be 15, I'll blink, and she'll be 15. But I want her to feel empowered, but I also want her to understand rules.

And I don't want to force her to rebel and to do something I don't want her to do. And I feel like every parent struggles with this, but how do you handle it? So every kid's gonna be different. It's very important that you observe your kid. So, and creating, it's more important right now that you just create the bond between you and River

that she wouldn't want to disappoint daddy. That matters. Because, and when I say disappoint daddy, I don't mean just like, just count out any of daddy's wishes, but embody your values. So you know, read to your daughter. I read to my daughter every night, but I was also in a 50-50 co-parented arrangement. So that changes your mindset about time with your kid. When you have them, that is your time.

You know, so in a wonderful situation like you guys have, things can get a little more lax-y-daisical and you can forget how quickly time is passing. So I'm telling you, nine months, man, like get on it. Like even the manipulations start early. I remember my daughter broke out crying and she couldn't have been like maybe 16 months or something. She's almost two.

And I heard it. She was like, she put her head down and everything. And I said, I said, that's a fake cry. Cause I've never talked to my daughter like she was a kid. I always talked to her like she's an adult kind of. And she looked up with 35 year old demonic eyes and was like, it's not a fake cry. And it was like another adult living inside of her was speaking on her behalf and spoken

out of turn. And I was like, I called her on her shit and in that moment I'll never forget. Okay, wait a minute, there is something inside of you that is very aware that you can't speak and articulate quite yet, but there's a soul inside of you that wants to do things and you're acting out. And from that moment, I became aware of her manipulating me. And so I would always nip things in the bud. I remember one time she was like, she had a mirror up

and she was like, daddy, I'm so pretty. She couldn't have been three. And I'm in a 50-50 arrangement too. So what happens with that, sometimes your child is bringing things from another household into your household and you're like, whoa, you weren't like that last week. And I shut it down right there in that moment.

And I was like, so my pretty people, let other people tell them that they're pretty. Said ugly people, tell other people how pretty they are. And I straightened her out with, and she looked at me and she absorbed that quickly. She never made that mistake and she never went down that road of vanity. And anytime you see something as a father,

you gotta nip it in the bud right on the spot because they're testing you as soon as like 14, 15, 16 months. I mean, she's already crying if we take something away from her that she wanted to play with. Like they are, they are. And she'll scream and you'll be like, are you okay? And then you realize she just. They are testing you.

There's two books I would recommend. There's one called The Baby Manual and the other one is called The Toddler Manual. And they're the best books, I think, for dads to get because they're actually written like car manuals. So they describe the baby as a machine with different, with all of these different components and how to operate the machine. That's funny. I don't know what your daughter is into.

If acting was her passion, how? You wouldn't know? She doesn't wanna be in front of the camera. I asked my daughter point blank because it was just getting to that point. And I was like, Samaya, do you wanna act? Do you wanna? Nope. And it was a very flat definitive no. And I was like, Smai, do you wanna act? Do you wanna? Nope.

And it was a very flat definitive nope. And it was like, all right. And I kinda see the way her phone is organized and she's got a whiteboard in her room. And I'm kinda getting some ideas. I think she's an operations girl. I really do. Cause there's a certain brain for operations.

There really is for tour managers and coordinating and improving systems that are currently in place. So that's why I meant when I told you, I said observe your child. It's very important that you observe your daughter and discover all the gifts that she has in a dad way, where it's like, oh, you do that well. My daughter could crack the code of any game.

Any game we would play, she would find a way to short circuit the game. She just would. She just would. I remember I had this game. I forget the name of the game, it's so dope. It's got these happy faces on chips. You should get it, it's a fun game.

And it's got frown faces on chips. And it's a game about greed. I think the game is called Greed. And you put your hand in the pouch, and you keep pulling until you pull a frown face. If you pull a frown face then the turn goes to the next person. If you reach, if you did it too many times all your chips had to go back in. Yeah, you had to kind of like figure out exactly. Exactly. So she would get so, so you had to know when to stop. Yeah. So if

you stopped on your own without reaching in that's what that was the rule of the game. If you stopped on your own without reaching in, that was the rule of the game. If you stopped on your own, you got to keep the chips that you pulled with happy faces. But if you just kept going, and of course she's a child, she just thinks she can pull out nine straight, they all go back in, she keeps getting frustrated. And she got really, really frustrated, and just like, okay, calm down, it's just a game, baby.

I was like, honey, you just have to feel it. And I was saying it on some like Michael Jackson stuff, like I just a game, baby. I was like, honey, you just have to feel it. And I was saying it on some like Michael Jackson stuff, like I just have to feel it. Just feel it in your heart, win the stop, right? Can you do a good Michael Jackson voice? He just slipped in there. And she was like, I'm an actress, I can jump into that stuff.

I didn't know what it is. It was like, but then she looked at me and she was like, you're right, daddy. I just have to feel it. And she stuck her hand in a pouch. She pulled out one happy face and she pulled out another happy face and she pulled out nine straight. And I'm like, how the frick did you do it? And she's playing a game with her other friends and I realized what she's doing she's taking her thumb and rubbing them across the

chips and she's determining whether or not the frown was up or whether the frown was down. Like thank you daddy, you taught me how to cheat. That's not cheating. That's playing smart. Were you proud? In the weird way I was, I was like, oh you're like a future safecracker, I gotta watch you. I would have been very proud.

You gotta channel that. Yeah daddy, I gotta watch you. I would've been very proud, I would've been very proud. You gotta channel that, you know, but like. Yeah, daddy, I just have to feel it. Yeah. That's great, that's great. Back to your career, what would you say is, obviously minus the celebrity and maybe money behind it, what is something from your career that you're most grateful for,

and what is your biggest regret when it comes to your career? Woo. I think my biggest regret actually didn't come until my adult years. My adult years I ran into a patch where I stopped believing in myself. The business tries to put you, and it works hard, to put you in a easily digestible box so much so that you can start to doubt what your natural abilities are. I love telling that you brought up Michael Jackson. You know, Michael Jackson, for the legend that he is, he had the hardest time getting Off the Wall, the album made. And there's a whole documentary about it. It's fantastic. Just about his journey from being one of the Jackson 5

to off the wall. And every executive that was in charge, that was standing as an obstacle in the way of him recording off the wall, was like, I mean, the black kid who sings Ben, you don't even know the song, Ben. I don't. You might know the song, Ben.

I don't know. OK, all right. So when I leave, play the song, Ben, by Michael Jackson. And it's this really sappy, slow, wholesome song. The executives just had the hardest time with Quincy Jones trying to convince them that the black kid who sang Ben would be the next big pop star.

I try to share with people out there, says, listen, you gotta follow your own instincts, but you gotta be able to take criticism too. So you gotta be self reflecting in this business, but don't ever get to the point in this business where you doubt what your gifts are, if you have tangible proof that your gifts have worked. Michael Jackson had performed in front of thousands

of people by this time. He was a veteran of the stage. So for any executive who had never been on the stage, never worked the stage, never held an audience captive for two hours for a concert or whatnot, to say that was so dismissive. I understand what that is. So I ran into a patch where I stopped believing in myself.

And it really wasn't until my daughter was born again that I had no choice but to say no your gifts got you this far and You're gonna keep going and more magic is gonna happen and learn to take that with a grain of salt where you know executives Like that who just lack visionary capability. It's just gonna be along your path. So that's my biggest regret It's just not believing in myself for probably about a strong patch in my late twenties because it led me towards interacting with people that were not part of my journey, not part of my purpose, everything. You start to just, you really just start to fall off

your path when you stop believing in what you're supposed to be doing. In the context of what this conversation has been, I'm grateful for the adults I got to grow up around. They weren't perfect. I tangled with some executives that they were sharks. They might've gotten the best of me, but I was overall more protected than I was hurt. You gotta get lucky in the people you get a chance to cross paths with in this life, in this business.

I crossed paths with some pretty cool adults that gave me a really, really interesting and fun and very educational childhood. At what point, if ever, did you start to feel run down? Around 2001 for me, 2001, 2003, somewhere in there. I definitely wanted to quit. So happy I didn't. I just feel like every time I've ever wanted to quit in my life, God sent me a reason, an obvious reason to keep on. I remember I was thinking about quitting

the business right before I booked Dreamgirls. And I was at Mackay Fifers house, who's a long time friend of mine. And Mackay Fifers, you're one of the greatest celebrity parties I've ever attended in my life. I mean, Mark Wahlberg was there, Paris Hilton was trying to get in. my life. I mean Mark Wahlberg was there, Paris Hilton was trying to get in like it was like high five when he was on ER. He was doing some big things. And I remember I came by his house and I mean the party's just cracking. Like Paris Hilton trying to get in. It was the most iconic line. She got in but I'm saying but it was still a whole other thing. She had a try. We got Paris at the door and it was like but it was still a whole lot of... She had to try. She had to try. We got Paris at the door and it was like...

But it was at a time too where Paris showed up at your door, it made the party. And I remember another actor, Keith Robinson, came up to me at the party and he was like, man, congratulations, man. I saw your headshot in the wardrobe room and I'm like, what are you talking about? He's just like, Dreamgirls, man. He's like, I'm in it too. Like, I'll see you work. And I just played it cool. Like, oh yeah, no, I, I, I talked to my agent in a while and, and as

soon as he walked away, I remember just running out of the party and calling my, um, uh, my manager at the time. Um, and I didn't care what time it was or whatever. I woke him up and was like, dude, Keith Robinson told me I, I got it. He was like, Oh, Jaleel, I didn't want to tell you the deal hasn't closed yet. That's me impersonating my man. And I remember I was, I was so excited. Um, but I was definitely in a moment of contemplation there, uh, being at the party, it was just, it's exciting to be around a lot of celebrities, but I don't see it that way.

I see it as a professional endeavor. So you have the most fun when you're in a room full of actors when you're acting. Because that's what we do, right? And whoever's won the most awards, whoever's movie is most recent, whoever's TV show is popping right there, they're probably having the most fun in the room, typically,

if they care to share their excitement. And whoever's looking for their next job or waiting for their next response to their last audition, you can kind of get in your seats. So that was a moment where I know I was definitely kind of in my feels. And God said, hold on one second. Let me send Keith Robertson over to you. That's crazy.

Let you know you got a job next week, brother. I know people love a great impression. And I'm getting the sense that you do. I know you're an actor, but not every good actor does a great impression. Do you have any good impressions that you're like? You know what? I do them in the acting context, but out of respect for Jay Farrow and Jamie Foxx and the guys who do them so well.

Oh yes. I mean. Like, hey, look, that's the standard. That's the standard. They just kind of come out naturally if I have to because I feel like I can play anybody. But do you have one that you feel most confident about? I do Muhammad Ali for Jeff Ross and Historical Rose. Okay. Yeah. I can talk like Muhammad, you know?

That's pretty good. I can talk to him if I have the vibe to give him a sting like a bee, float like a butterfly. I love a good impression. Nick does love a good impression. I do, I think most people do. I don't know what it is about impressions that people are so fascinated about. To hear the voice of someone else through someone else

is, I don't know why. I'll tell you Nick, you don't wanna tangle with me. That's pretty good. That's really good. That is good, that's pretty good. That is good. That's really good. Do you do any other work? Oh gosh, you asked what I do.

I can talk like the governor. I can talk like the governor. Determinator. Well, yeah. Determinator. I can do a bad Arnold. I can do a bad Arnold. Do it.

Do we, I think our texting office hours is here. Time for texting office hours? All right. You down to help us sum it up with a problem? Absolutely. All right, let's bring them up. Do it. Mix it up at Maverick with our huge variety

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because staying informed shouldn't feel overwhelming. How's it going? Hi, my name is Lauren and I'm 26 years old. How can we help Lauren? I need help asserting my boundaries with my ex. Okay, tell me more about your ex. So we started dating July last year and things were going pretty well initially.

And then until March, I noticed that he started pulling back and he was telling me, well, I confronted him asking what was wrong. And he was telling me that he was feeling pretty overwhelmed because he's juggling two kids, a full-time job and starting a master's program. And we ultimately decided to break things off. About a week later, he reached out and then we started hanging out again. And then we were hanging out pretty consistently for the next two months. And then in May, it was my birthday and graduation

and I had a party to celebrate both. And I was introducing him as my boyfriend to my friends and family. The following day, he told me that he, not that he felt uncomfortable, but he just didn't like the label of boyfriend. And it really threw me up. He didn't want the responsibility of boyfriend.

So I told him that I didn't want like friendship benefits. Like I only want commitment and I couldn't be in this if he didn't want that. So we cut it off again. And then I found out he started seeing another girl and I was completely heartbroken. Then two weeks later, he reached out and asked if I was completely heartbroken. Then two weeks later, he reached out and asked if I wanted to get dinner and I agreed. And I just assumed, I know I should

have asked, but I just assumed he wasn't seeing this girl anymore. When we hung out, had dinner, we spent the entire weekend together. Then the following week, I found out he was still seeing this girl and I ended up messaging her. We talked for a bit and she told me that he invited her over that night, then asked if I would be willing to go with her to confront him together. And so we did. Damn. Oh, it's spicy. Damn.

Go girl. He was pretty surprised, but he was basically saying that he felt like he didn't do anything wrong because he wasn't in a relationship with either of us, which is true, I guess. But we both felt pretty betrayed. We ended up leaving. And that night he calls me and asked if I could meet up with him the following day so we could get on the same page. And I agreed. And so he told me that he didn't want to lose me and he wanted to be in his life. So I told him that the only way lose me and he wanted me in his life. So I told him that the only way I'd be willing to stay in his life is if we were in a relationship

or working towards one. And he agreed, but asked if we could take things slow. And so for the next month, we were doing pretty okay. But during that time, he had family over, he was still doing school. He has his kids every other weekend. And I guess he felt overwhelmed again. I noticed he was pulling back again. And so we agreed to meet up and talk about what was going on. And he told me that he was feeling overwhelmed. And he felt like he wasn't putting enough time in this relationship that he felt I deserved. And we cut it off again.

And then I have a meal prep business and I was still selling him meals, but I wasn't seeing him. I would just drop them off at his work with the front desk lady. For free? Oh no. He was saying. Oh, she said he was selling. Okay. She said I was selling a meal. Okay. Just making sure. Yeah. But one day I forgot to include something in one of his plates. So I ended up texting him and if he wanted to come by to pick it up, it was like a sauce or something. Anyways, he came to pick it up and then that started our communication again. And the following day he texted me asking if I wanted to go over and bake some cupcakes.

And I know I shouldn't have said yes, but I did. And I went over and this was a few weeks ago and we've been hanging out again pretty consistently. I'll go over while he's doing homework and we'll just like watch movies or- Lauren, stop. Stop hitting out with him. You have to stop.

So currently where are we with this guy? We are not in a relationship. I would say- You're still talking. It's a situationship, but yes, we are still talking, but it's pretty overwhelming because like the same thing could happen. I'm not like, I'm always anxious about like, is he seeing someone else?

I really don't think he's seeing anyone else, but it could happen again because he would be like, oh, well, we're not together. Yeah, I mean, he definitely could if he wanted to. On a scale of one to 10, 10 being absolute fire. When you hook up, is it a 10? It's an eight. Oh wow.

That's still pretty high. No, that's high. That's high. I feel like he is getting absolutely everything he wants and you're getting nothing that you want. There's no sense of compromise with this at all. So you called in when you said, I need help setting better boundaries with my ex, right?

And a few minutes ago, you said something, you said after the confrontation when he came back, you said the only way I'm willing to do this when he says like, I wanna keep you in my life. And you said, we have to be in a relationship or at least be working towards something. And so boundaries aren't complicated. They're really simple, right?

And so the real boundary was, I need to be in a relationship if we wanna keep this going. But the second part, the or, that wasn't a boundary. What is working towards something? That's so vague. That's why he said yes, right? You gave him the out, right? And you kinda knew that.

Your subconscious knew that, right? Because your real boundary was, we've been hooking up, you've met my family, I don't wanna lose you. Who says that to someone they don't wanna be boyfriend and girlfriend with? That's probably what you're thinking, right? But you were afraid he would say no to the relationship part. So you gave him the out, you gave him the or.

You know, he's like, yeah, I can work towards something forever. You know, fuck, shit. You know, let's make cupcakes. He's working towards a relationship. Well, let's go on a trip. I'm working towards a relationship. Let's hook cupcakes. He's working towards a relationship. Well, let's go on a trip. I'm working towards a relationship. Let's hook up, I'm working towards a relationship.

I don't wanna see you for a week. I'm working towards a relationship. I gotta think of it. I'm working towards a relationship. And so when you think about boundaries and you wanna set something, ask yourself, is this the real boundary or am I giving them an out?

Because it shouldn't be that complicated. Boundaries aren't like a two part, three part process. It's a simple statement. I want this, I'm comfortable with that, I don't want that, you know? I want a relationship with you. If you wanna keep hooking up with me, you need to commit. There's no or and, there's no a three part thing.

So that's the biggest thing that you have to take away, I hope, with this call is that you have to figure out what your real boundaries are and you have to stick to them. Yeah. Well, that's why I asked her about her, you know, what the connection was. What is it about him that you are drawn to because there's some aspect of him that is irresistible to you and you got to be honest about what that is. So I feel like because I'm still living in my hometown and living with my parents so

and everyone around me, all my best friends left recently like within the last year and I feel like deep down I feel like it's probably because he's the only one still here and I guess I just maybe it's company or I mean when I'm with him I really do enjoy our time in our conversations. I really like that he motivates me a lot. He's your safe space right now. Yeah. He feels familiar to you.

Yeah, he does just enough to be needed. Yeah, but on the flip side of that though, just to let you know, like, single parents don't date. Like, single parents, they prospect for a partner or they are trying to get some fun or some joy to tap back into their youth because they are genuinely overwhelmed. And I'm curious, is he a good dad? He is.

I've never met his kids. I've never seen him with his kids, but I do see how much he does prioritize for them. He'll show me like, oh, I did this for my kids or like, he'll talk about what he, like how he spent his weekend with his kids. So I do think he's a really good dad. Yeah. So you're, you're, you're confirming my suspicions. So, and the fact that you haven't even met his kids, he's sensitive to another woman

being introduced to his kids. One thing I forgot to mention, when he was seeing that other girl for that month, she told me that she went over to his house to work out and his son came out and she met him casually. But with me, I've never been able to go near his house when his kids are there. able to go near his house when his kids are there. Was there ever a conversation when you were dating, seriously, of like stepmother role? Oh yeah, like what were his boundaries or expectations with, for his kids with you? He told me that he wouldn't feel comfortable

introducing me to his kids until we had been in a relationship for a year. Okay. That's a weird time. I mean a relationship for a year. Okay. That's a weird time. I mean, I guess a year he feels like that's, you know. Well, I mean, there's like a, I mean, Jaleel is a single parent, yeah. No, not anymore.

You're married now. You're married, oh, my bad. But. Let's clarify. Okay, he is married, he is married. Okay, he is married. No, but I was. So that's why I understand.

There was a definitive moment for me where I just, I realized I was like, holy smokes, like I don't really want to interact with a woman that I'm not comfortable introducing to my daughter. And I would go through great lengths to keep those worlds separate and apart. And you know, it just sounds to me like taking on the responsibility of building something new with her on top of two kids that he does not intend to abandon, which is commendable. It's just too much for him, too much for his mind to take in. You know, I don't know if somebody's finances or anything like that. So that's why I'd be respectful of

that. But it just sounds like that. And the slippage, I don't like the. So that's why I'd be respectful of that. But it just sounds like that. And the slippage, I don't like the slippage that the other girl met the kid. I don't like that. Like that's like, ah, that's just, dude. Yeah, that's something weird. To me, he does not respect your boundaries, your wishes, what you want.

He is, to me, sounds selfish. Selfish. And I think you are wasting your time. I mean, I know he feels familiar. I know you feel alone right now with all of your friends gone. And this is someone that you can't have fun with and that you can make cupcakes with

and that you can have fun sex with and you can go and do this and that. And that's fun. And that's nice to have that person, but it's not fun to have that person when it's messing with your mental health and you're constantly questioning yourself and you're lying to yourself

about what this relationship is. I don't think he's ever gonna. No, he's not. No. Not unless you change something. You would have to drastically change your behavior around him because he's not, I mean, yeah, this is gonna be some tough love. So I say this with love, but put it this way,

you don't take your relationship with him seriously so he doesn't either, right? Because, I mean, you showed up with another woman at his front door and confronted him, and then two days or one day later, I don't know how many days later, yeah, the same day, you were forgiving him. And at that moment, it's just hard to take you seriously

if he's gonna be able, I mean, at that point, he knew he could pretty much get away with anything with you. Yeah. I have a greater issue though that I don't want her to repeat in her next relationship. What did you get out of contacting the woman, getting to know her and confronting him? Were you satisfied with the feeling that you got going that

route? Honestly I just felt like I didn't want him to tell me something and tell her something different so I guess I just wanted clarity on the entire situation. That tells me that inside you don't trust this person. Yeah I guess I just wanted clarity on the entire situation. That tells me that inside you don't trust this person. Yeah, I guess that's true. Yeah, whenever you gotta get off forensic like that, and you're more interested in getting to know the girl and going down that rabbit hole, when you find what you find, now you gotta act on it.

So you found what you found, he looked you both in the eyes and was like, oh, I can still do this with either one of them. And I'm just saying, I think it's more important that you figure out for yourself, and I'd love to hear it, what do you want? How do you envision your immediate future for yourself? And how would he fit into that? I mean, I guess the same thing that guy would only want

to stay in his life is, we were in a relationship, but I- Do you want kids? Do you want family? I do. You see what I'm saying? It's just like, it's really easy to stay in his life. We were in a relationship, but I... Do you want kids? Do you want family? I do. You see what I'm saying? It's just like, it's really easy to just float that out. Hey, a relationship, we can hang out. No, no, no, I mean, be specific with yourself.

I'm looking for a husband. I want to have a child soon. I want to build a family. I want to work. I want to, you know, if my husband needs help, I want to build, sounds like you're an entrepreneur. Like you have a great business. You need to be partnering up with somebody

that can help you further that business and get you closer to building a family of your own. But I don't hear you saying that. I hear you saying you're cool to kick it. Yeah, no, yes I do. I am looking for a marriage and kids in the future. So I know you listen to this show and I'm sure you've heard me talk about situationships at great length.

So it's like, my point is I think you know better, right? But my question to you is, as someone who deep down knows better, and you even said, I know I shouldn't have gone over, but I'm curious, like, why, even though you know better, you know, and it's one thing to make the mistake, but you're making this mistake at this point daily. I mean, at this point, every time you get on the phone

with them, talk to them, hang out with them, have sex with them, there's a part of you knowing that you shouldn't do this. But why are you, other than feeling a little lonely and I know your friends have moved, but nevertheless, you're still kind of emotionally torturing yourself. Why are you choosing to do this as someone who knows deep down everything that we're saying to you?

Honestly, I do not know because the entire day where we're not talking, I tell myself, no, I cannot keep doing this, I deserve better. And then as soon as he reaches out, I'm like, you wanna hang out? I'm like, yes, right away, without even thinking, and I go. It hits a weak spot.

I was there with Nick. I want to hang out and like, yes, right away, like without even thinking and I go. It hits a weak spot. I was there with Nick. I mean, we, 10 months off and on, and I constantly was like, I want to date you. And he said no. And I kept hanging out with him. I kept having sex with him. I kept building my feelings for him

while I knew he had no interest in being serious with me. So eventually it did come to that point where I had to talk to myself and say, if I continue with this relationship, I'm only hurting myself. I have to get out of it. And so I went to Nick and I said, I'm done. If you're not gonna commit to me,

I'm not doing this anymore. And I meant it. And as soon as I went away, he came calling. Now I'm not saying that's like what this guy's gonna do cause clearly, you know, he has the kids and a lot of other things going on, but I think you really have to stick to what you want and not fall as soon as he texts you.

I would say you need to block him. Yeah. Because sometimes when you don't have the strength to say no, then it's just, I've had to do that, where it's just like, well, if you just block, then you don't know when the other person has contacted you. And then you become the other person that's the weak person. If you reach out to them, and you know they've been blocked for the last two months, so that means realistically they might have reached out to you and you look them off.

So why would you do that to somebody? You see what I'm saying? It's like somehow blocking on the phone actually gives you the strength to say, hey, I've gone a month, I've gone two months, I've gone three months, all right, I'm moving on. That's just what I would say. It feels very familiar and safe,

and it's like it's taking, it's helping you deal with some aspect of loneliness that that you that you like. Yeah, it's a lot easier to go to the grocery store and not bar the Oreos than to buy the Oreos and then try not to eat the Oreos when they're out. Exactly. You know what I'm saying? Every time Nally buys the Oreos, I'm like, fuck man.

I'm like, you know, I'm gonna eat all these Oreos. I only I fuck man. I'm like Oreos I only I need will says but to Leo's point It's gonna be difficult you to block them But it just it takes one moment of strength just to block them Yeah, and just and and then you have to delete his number Yeah, you know you got to block them on everything But every like you you know When that Oreo shows up when you know when I'm I have that craving a smoke a little weed

Oh, yeah, we'll take out a whole sleeve. Do we have milk too? Like, oh shit, that's you, that's him reaching out. You're like, yes. And at this point, he kinda knows when to reach out. He can sense it. And yeah, he's reaching out when you're, you could use a little company,

you can use a little affection, you can use a little love. And it's just like, it's a whole heart for you. So you gotta make it easy on yourself to not eat the Oreos, so to speak. So you gotta- Souls attach. I don't think people really respect that enough.

Souls attach. When you form with somebody, there's an actual spiritual connection that happens between the two of you. And I think whether you want to say you're in a relationship, situation ship, boyfriend and girlfriend, do the whole roller coaster thing, your souls are attached. And until you block and you go months and months at a time where you live differently, you're not going to actively detach.

Yeah. So I know you're saying just to block him, and I will, but I don't know. I feel like for me personally, I would, and I know you would be against this, to have at least one conversation ending things. I just wouldn't know what to say. Are you only wanting to reach out to end things

to see if he will change his mind? Lauren? I mean, if you wanna give him one, listen, if you wanna give him one more, like, I'm, you know. to end things to see if he will change his mind. Lauren. Listen, if you wanna give him one more, like I'm, you know. I'm done. I'm done, like this is enough. You don't need to see him in person. You don't need to have a conversation. You don't have to think of a magic thing to say.

I think we did it over text. You can send him a text and be like, I'm just letting you know, we've worked long enough towards a relationship. If you're not actually serious about committing to me and being my partner and being my boyfriend today, then I'm done with this. I got a, I had a simpler question for you to text. Ooh, they have simpler question.

Cause there's something that you've nobody here wants to really continue to address. Do you see me at any point soon as the stepmother to your kids? Damn. That is a good question. You ask him that, and if you don't get a fire answer, quick, step. Because those kids are in front of you.

I'm telling you straight up, as far as line order, those kids are in front of you. So if you can't be a part of what those kids are, and you don't wanna be a part of them, maybe you wanna be a part of, those kids are in front of you. So if you can't be a part of what those kids are, and you don't want to be a part of them, maybe you want to be a part of what those kids are. I'm not ruling that out. But you got to ask him point blank, do you see any time soon being stepmother to your kids?

If you get a big novel back, a little bunch of stuff to unpack, this, that, and the other, it is what it is, you know? You want to go to the movies, you want to have some fun because you're just in that kind of way All right But don't expect anything from that guy and understand that guy's blocking other guys who might have an eye on you That you're not recognizing because you're blinded by what you have with him

And I agree because I mean I will get asked out but then I'm like because I mean I will get asked out but then I'm like I feel like I don't know She's a lovely girl! They shoot and they shot! Your DM's is packed, they packed! And you're saying you're guilty? Yeah! Oh no! But he's not doing the same! Oh no! He doesn't give you the same respect!

You know what really fucked me up? When Nellie was like I'm out and she was like out and I was like text her and I was like what are you doing? She's like I what are you doing? And she's like, I'm going on a date. And then she didn't answer the call the rest of the night. That's the biggest mistake ladies will make is thinking that men will get upset, especially in situationships. Like, if you're not, you know, they will not like you if you tell them that you're dating other men.

That is honestly the opposite. They will lose their mind. Like, what you should be doing is going on all these dates, and then when you ask what you're up to, other men, that is honestly the opposite. They will lose their mind. What you should be doing is going on all these dates and then when you ask what you're up to, you tell them I'm going on a date. Tell them the truth. Because at the end of the day,

and if they want to get upset, you can be like cool, you can get upset, but you don't want to date me. And I'm seeing other people who might want to. So like, if you have a problem with this, then like, we can figure that out and maybe we can date, but we're not gonna just keep playing this game and I'm only gonna see you, but you're not gonna date me.

I literally like, in my book, I don't know if you read it. No, I have. You have? Okay, oh my God. Then open chapter two. No, like three times. Well then fuck, what the fuck, not closely enough. Open chapter two.

Jaleel has the best advice. I mean honestly, this guy doesn't sound very promising. He doesn't take you very seriously. And I think blocking him is probably the best solution. But if you have the strength and you go on a date, start dating other men. You are a single woman and I want you to remember that because you're not in a relationship,

so therefore you are single and you have the same freedoms he has. So plan a date and eventually this, you know, do it soon because I don't want you guys, I don't want you emotionally invested this guy for much longer. And literally there's a step by step of what you should do when he reaches out to you and he asks, what are you doing tonight? And you should say, I'm going on a date. And then he's gonna get all flustered, he's gonna pretend he doesn't care. He's gonna be like, oh, that's cool, tell me about it. What's up? And then you just go away, you go on that date.

Anyways, it's in the book, you should read it. It's laid out what you should do. And honestly, if that doesn't work, nothing will. If he doesn't lose his shit, and well, what the fuck am I doing? If he doesn't wake up and realize he could lose something special, then he's never gonna come around.

He just won't. And then you should definitely at that point move on and block him. Yeah, I agree. I feel like I know all this. I listen to you every week, and I've read your book, and I know these things, but then that then that moment comes I'm like, okay Yeah, I like you lose everything and this is getting tough love and it's meant to sting a little bit

But like he he doesn't take you seriously Yeah, do you want him to thank you? But then you have you have you mean but you're not taking yourself seriously I mean, that's your your an adult like Jalil said a beautiful woman you guys reaching out to you You got your own business, but like every step of the way, you know what you should do and you do the opposite. So why should he treat you any different

than you're treating yourself? Yeah, I see that. The most precious thing you have in your life is your time. And until you learn certain lessons, God just kind of makes you keep repeating them. So that's why you're literally on a hamster wheel. I just would prefer you look at it that way as opposed to just the loving feelings

that you clearly have for him though. But respect the fact that you're on a hamster wheel. And I would just think that a woman who has her own meal prep business, you seem like a lovely gal, you would want to get off the hamster wheel and start the progress of learning again. And that's, he's intentionally, you do understand it,

holding up that process because it's convenient for him with work and the two kids in the school and et cetera, et cetera. It's like, oh man, but I got this thing on the side and it makes me feel good. And it's like, ah, but that's not fair to your growth, but you gotta want that. And that's not his fault but you gotta want that.

And that's not his fault, you gotta want that. Yeah, no yeah, and I can see it, and I always look back to this quote you said that, you're like, this is childish, and I'm tired of being childish with you. And it's true, like this back and forth is childish. Challenge yourself the next time. You don't reach out.

The next time he does, you challenge yourself to either respond with whichever resonated with you best, whether it's the date thing, whether it's the, these are my boundaries and I'm sticking to them, I'm out if you're not in, or we block them immediately. You can do it. More than anything, please just start dating.

Yeah. You know, say yes, just start dating. Yeah. Say yes, just give it a shot. And have low expectations, you're gonna meet a plenty of frogs. You know, like you don't wanna, don't compare them to him, but just get out there and act like the single woman that you are.

And then realize that your excuse that you gave us a few minutes ago as to why you always say yes, cause you're a little lonely, all your friends moved? You're not as lonely as you're acting because clearly you are getting attention from people. You still have friends. It might be an adjustment.

You're just very comfortable with this situation that you have and it's been good enough just to keep it around. But it's clearly making you very sad. It's bothering you. It makes you a lot more sad than it makes you happy. It's that, he's that Sour Patch Kid, you know what I'm saying? It feels good, you put it in your mouth, but you always feel shitty after you binge in

a bunch of sugar. You always feel shittier after you hang out with this guy and he rejects you. You're at such an amazing age. I just want to let you know that. Like I'm, I'm almost double your age. So you're like, you're, you're at such, when I think about, oh my gosh, the age that you are, there's like two and three and four more journeys in front of you. So all I'm trying to do is nudge you all of this to get on with that journey. Cause you, ah, you just look so lovely.

Seriously, just go date somebody. Go date somebody. Go date somebody. Oh yeah, I'm excited. I've only started this business a few months and I'm excited to meet more people and go on dates. Well that's good. And because you started this business

in only three months ago, and I say this to a lot of people in your position, your energy and time is not infinite and you are treating it like it is. And so all this energy, even like listen, we're grateful you're calling in, it was great to meet you, but right now, instead of talking to us, you could be focusing

on your business, you could be focusing on far more other productive things and you're not getting that time back and you are wasting a lot of energy and time on this guy who doesn't deserve it, isn't asking for it. And it's cost, there's a cost to it. You know, you'll be fine, you'll get over this,

but you will, I promise you, look back on this guy and this relationship and get a little upset with yourself about how much energy and time you gave him. You hung out with him enough, he knows you well enough, if he really wants to be with you, you walking away and starting to date other people will do the trick. And if that doesn't do the trick, nothing was going to.

He gonna test that by the way anyway. You know I'm telling the truth. So like, you start dating other people and he's gonna test that. Just letting you know. I definitely need to block him because I know. There he goes. There he goes. But to be clear, if he does, and Just let you know. I definitely need to block him because I know. There he is. To be clear, if he does, and like, you know, again, we, Nellie and I are very open about

this story and how we hung out for nine, 10 months before we became boyfriend and girlfriend, but she played it right. And not like, and then I wasn't testing her, but like I freaked out and when I, I was like, what the fuck am I doing? You know, and I had a lot of my reasons why I didn't want to, I was insecure about our age gap and yada, yada, yada. But when I did, I was like, all right, let's do this. So he's gotta storm the castle. He can't be like, no, let's try. What does try mean?

It's not like, well, let's take it slow. He needs to wanna be your boyfriend. He needs to be sorry for almost losing you. It needs to be, he needs to beg for you to be his boyfriend. And if he's not willing to do that, then he's just not taking it seriously. Because he is just like Jaleel said, he's not gonna let you go easily.

He very much enjoys what he has with you, but it's all at his convenience and on his time. He gets a lot from it, and he is not sad when he's not with you He's very much in control this relationship. Can I ask how old he is? He's 31. Okay. Yeah, so two kids 31 You're I'm saying this respectfully very attractive young lady. You're younger than him Honey, he's out kicking his coverage. Go find someone with no kids.

Yeah. He is no kids, no past marriage. Start fresh with somebody. Yeah. Like the only, if you want to get involved, a woman your age with a guy with kids, he should be in a position to want to wife you up or take things up to the next level because it's nothing for him to do that. If he sees something special in you.

My man is getting a discount for out kicking his coverage right now. I'm just telling you. He wants companionship with no- No responsibility, no expectations. And it sucks because it sounds like he's getting a blessing in you and he's looking it off. Yeah. Because I haven't heard you. I haven't heard you say you're not interested in being a mom, but listen to Natalie, try to stay away from the

ones that do have kids unless they come at you. Super correct right from the gate. Yeah. I think you know what you want to do. Give us a. Yeah, send us all the email man. We want to go read chapter two and then go read chapter 10. I will, thank you guys so much. All right. All right, nice to meet you. You can do this, you're gonna get through this. But just.

I'll be strong. I want you to get mad about how much energy you're wasting about this guy. It's gotta piss you off at some point. I'm assuming that, you know. This was so, I'm fired up. Eventually you have to have it's got a drive you crazy I'm almost reaching that point all right well good luck. Let us know what happens We definitely want an update

Take care take care. Thank you likewise. She was sweet That was a great great point about men with kids don't date. Yeah. Well, it makes like, you know, you don't have the time to fuck around. If you're fucking around, you're definitely not taking it seriously. Yeah, you know, it's just when you have a child, man, things get real fast. They really do. And nothing will make you feel like you're losing your youth faster than having the responsibilities of a child and any separation that's associated with that.

So you want to jump out there, but you also have to be able to recognize when you have a person that's down to be a partner. So that's why I ended up getting married. It's just like, I started recognizing, looking at things with my heart instead of my eyes. And I was like, yeah, this woman is down to be a partner. You enjoy being a husband? I love it, man.

I gotta be honest with you, I love it. It's getting better. I mean, you go through weird stuff. You know, she says I snore too much. I believe that. So the story thing is like so I had no idea. I had no idea how many men deal with this issue with women and snoring. Like this is an epidemic.

Have you ever looked at it? The story. Yeah no I've actually seen doctors about it and everything. But it's weird because it's like I'm it? The snore, yeah, no, I've actually, I'm seeing doctors about it and everything, but it's weird because it's like, I'm not a bad snore, even, I'm not, and I do know that, so I'm like, I do have a small degree of sleep apnea. I'm on the low, I'm on the mild end, and she has these, her senses, though, are insane.

Like, I can walk into the room at night, and she's like, did you just have chocolate and peanut butter? She can smell that shit from the bed on my breath. Hell yeah. So I'm dealing with a woman with these weird acute senses. Right, so I can just, and it's like, oh, oh my God. And she hears that. And I'm like, how did you ever live in New York?

How did you go to sleep in New York? And meanwhile, why did you ever bring this crap up in the first two years when we dated? Anyway, right? That's the trick y'all play on that. It's fine. It's fine. It's time to get married. Yeah.

Shut the... But I don't know. My lady comes from a really good family. And so I really connect with her father. I love her name. And her mother, Nicolette. Love it, beautiful. Thank you.

She just comes from a really good family and I really connect with her mother and her father. So when I look at her mother and her father, I kind of see a lot of aspects of our own relationship. And I'd never experienced that before. Jaleel, it's been a pleasure, man. I wish we could keep talking, but I know you gotta go. At some point, you know, they're just,

the parking media is gonna run out. It's gonna run out. It's really been fascinating. I really enjoyed it. I really appreciated the opportunity. The book is called Growing Up Urkel. When does it come out? November 19th, but pre-orders matter.

Get them now. Pre-orders now? You can pre-order wherever you get your books. Is there an audio version for your dyslexic people out there? Listen, I actually recorded my own book. I did the audio. Isn't that a nightmare? I did the audio. I enjoyed it.

That's the actor in me. So I enjoyed it. And don't forget, I'm the voice of Sonic the Hedgehog. So I've been in booths for many, many hours. You're the voice of Sonic the Hedgehog? Yeah, I was the original voice for Sonic the Hedgehog, so I've been in booths for many, many hours. You're the voice of Sonic the Hedgehog? Yeah, I was the original voice for Sonic the Hedgehog. Sonic Underground, the Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog. I did not know that.

Yeah, I've done over 100 episodes of Sonic. Da. Wee, pass, cool. That's fucking incredible. Well, get the book now, pre-order it now. It's a very fascinating book. So many incredible stories. It'll blow your mind.

Check it out. Jaleel, I really appreciate your time. Thank you, man. Thank you for having me, man. Thank you guys for listening. Don't forget to send in those questions to asknickatthevilefiles.com. We'll see you tomorrow. Bye. Hey moms, looking for some lighthearted guidance on this crazy journey we call parenting?

Join me, Sabrina Kohlberg. And me, Andi Mitchell, for Pop Culture Moms. Where each week we talk about what we're watching. And examine our favorite pop culture moms up close to try to pick up some parenting hacks along the way. Come laugh, learn, and grow with us as we look for the best tips. And maybe a few what not to do's from our favorite fictional moms. From Good Morning America and ABC Audio. Pop Culture Moms. Find it wherever you get your podcasts.