The Viall Files - E835 - Love is Blind Reunion w/ Ramses, RHOC w/ Emily D Baker, RHOSLC, and Ryan Reynolds v. Martha Stewart

Episode Date: November 5, 2024

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  The finale for Bravo’s RHOC aired last night, and boy was it JUICY! Emily D Baker joins us to discuss Ryan’s legal mess, Jenn Pedranti’s reality if she marries him, and Tamra Judged being served. In addition, Love is Blind’s Ramses joins to discuss the reunion, clear the air with his edit, and shed light into his relationship with Marissa now. Meanwhile, we recap RHOSLC, Margot Robbie’s new child, and Ryan Reynolds feuding with Martha Stewart. “Marissa switched up.” OUT NOW! Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff. Available wherever you get your podcasts and YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Follow us on X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheViallFiles Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Wonderful Pistachios - Thank you Wonderful Pistachios for sponsoring this segment of The Viall Files! Visit https://www.WonderfulPistachios.com to learn more Article - Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim, visit https://www.article.com/viall and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. Grammarly - Get more done with Grammarly. Download Grammarly for FREE at https://www.grammarly.com/podcast  Helix Sleep - Helix is offering 25% off sitewide and 2 free dream pillows with any mattress purchase! Go to https://www.HelixSleep.com/Viall  Vessi - Step into waterproof comfort with Vessi’s Early Black Friday Sale! Stay dry in style with select waterproof Vessis, now just $99 at Vessi.com. Don’t wait—grab yours before they’re gone! Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @theemilydbaker @ramsesprashad @ciaracrobinson @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @the_mare_bare @dereklanerussell  Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 02:37 - Vibes Or Knowledge 3:56 - Household Headlines 20:22 - Love Is Blind Finale 45:02 - Ramses Interview 01:23:37 - RHOSLC 01:46:40 - RHOC 01:51:39 - RHOC with Emily Baker 02:19:55 - Other Legal Questions 02:27:44 - RHOC Final Thoughts 02:28:54 - Outro  

What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Valve Vows Reality Recap Edition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by the household we have a lot to get into. It is election day. Get out and vote. Whoever you want to vote for, do your election day. Get out and vote, whoever you wanna vote for. Do your patriotic duty and use your right to vote. And then listen to while you're waiting.

I don't know, who knows what's gonna happen, but just know that we have Ashley from Love is Blind tomorrow for just a electric episode of Going Deeper. We obviously will get it in the reunion later this episode. We have Ramses joining us today as well, which hopefully we get some answers there too, because again, we, boy, Nick and Vanessa really just doing their thing

at the reunions. But if you were left wanting more, that's why we are here. So while, who knows what's going on with election, who knows, I mean, when we're gonna find out, God knows what, but just know we are here for you to keep your mind off the chaos. We are also here pun-free.

Yeah, no puns. No puns. We are... No dad jokes. No dad jokes, no puns. No dad jokes, just straight facts and fun here at The Vile Files. We also have Emily Baker returning to the show.

She is gonna help us break down Real Housewives of OC. Obviously we had the arrest of, well, the arrest of Ryan's friend. Yeah, but he was at the party talking about how he's a criminal. Having a money launderer? Yeah, that was crazy. I'm pretty sure he admitted to a crime there. Is it like- They were joking.

Yeah. I don't think juries care about jokes. Crazy thing to say at a party on TV when you're being investigated. I was gonna say, I also don't know that he realized that two out of the five people in that circle are mic'd up. Are mic'd up, yeah.

He said it. I don't know if he was joking. I think he was trying to be funny. He was trying to be funny, and I think it was in context as well of Tamara attacking him. But I'm pretty sure just having a money launderer is illegal, right?

There's no legal reason to have a money launderer, right? No, I mean, cause the only reason I have a money launderer is when you're laundering money. Because you're doing, right? I don't know. Illegal. That's why we have Emily here. This is my money launderer.

I just keep him here for fun. He also helps me with my laundry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have a coin business. It's really over the mark. The legal expert that she is, Emily will answer some of our legal questions later this episode. Maybe she'll have some tea about the Men and His Brothers in PE Beauty.

Really, she is an encyclopedia of legal knowledge, and we are excited to have Emily back with us. Once again, knowledge, unfortunately. Well, I mean, I am happy for me, but I'm running away with this, guys. This Vibes or Stats segment of The Vile Files is brought to you by Wonderful Pistachios. Wonderful Pistachios, no shells. Flavors come in a variety of flavors, including chili roasted, honey roasted, sea salt and vinegar, smoky barbecue, sea salt and pepper, jalapeno lime, and the newest seasonal limited time edition, sweet cinnamon.

With a wide range of flavors, there's a Wonderful Pistachios product for every taste bud and occasion from your game time gatherings or for taking them on the go, visit wonderfulpistachios.com to learn more. I can tell you I'm not sad about losing this to you. Yeah, I also am like, you can for sure have it. I mean, like- If you were losing, I would be sad for you. Yeah, the concept of this is pretty much for us to lose.

For us to have fun and for you to be knowledgeable. Guys, the bid is for you guys to want to win. I wanted to win, but it was a setup. This was inevitable that. Yeah. Yeah. But it's okay. The first two weeks, the first two weeks is where we were winning. Yes. Because that doesn't count.

Listen, it's an early season. You guys can come back. How long do you get to say it's an early season for? Well, we're halfway through. Okay. We're halfway through the season. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Last half full. Yeah.

Or? Or? I guess we'll just have to see. Thank you, Wonderful Pistachios, for sponsoring this segment of The Valve Owls. Visit wonderfulpistachios.com to learn more. What is going on in the pop culture world? Margot Robbie is a mom.

Yeah. She has a son. She has a baby boy. A boy. I have a baby boy. She's gonna crush. This was reminding me just how insane the internet is. The amount of tweets I saw about Barbie fans being mad that Margot Robbie had a boy and not a girl

is, well, I shouldn't say shocking because it's the internet, but disturbing. That's for sure. Who cares? People are mad that she's, anyone who is like mad at the gender of their child because it's the internet, but disturbing, that's for sure. Yeah. Who cares? People are mad that she's, anyone who is like mad at the gender of their child is like so fucking weird to me.

I saw a tweet that suggests wasted opportunity because this boy won't appreciate as Barbie as their mom. Okay, what if he was cool? And maybe she's raising an anti-Ken. You don't know. Also, why can't her son grow up to be a Barbie fan? Like what are- Weird.

Anyways, yeah. I do wonder if Margot Robbie will have the same issues that I have. Leia, I wonder if you struggle with this as well, but it is that of intrusive thoughts. And like, I thought that I was just like sick in the head and it would be like, anytime we did absolutely anything, I would like picture the worst thing happening.

It's like every time we're in the car, I'm like, I go through this green light and like an 18 wheeler is gonna run the red light and hit us. It's like every, or it's like River is doing something and she's gonna fall and have a concussion or she's gonna like go to bed and then she's gonna sleep on a concussion.

She won't wake up. It's like these terrible, terrible, terrible thoughts. And I was like, oh my gosh, like what is wrong with you? Am I manifesting these thoughts? Like what the fuck? And then we were at this event and I was talking to oh my gosh, like what is wrong with you? Am I manifesting these thoughts? Like what the fuck? And then we were at this event and I was talking to Sharna and Brian Austin Green and I was telling Sharna about it just as like, you know, oh my God, this and this crazy.

And she was like, no, I have the exact same things. And I feel like I've done, I've had those thoughts. You have? Yeah, you go down a thought and we're just like, that would be terrible if that happened. But I guess I just thought like, am I fucked up in the head for like thinking these like terrible things? Like, why can't I just be like appreciative of this moment? But no, it's like I have to think of like her falling or her anything. And Sharna was like, No, I the same thing happened to me.

And she's like, you have to she gave me a really amazing piece of advice of just like thanking them for coming into your head and like bringing, you know're like okay now I am aware that like an 18-wheeler could come through and I need to be like be more cautious and I need to like just be more present and like thank you for bringing this into my head instead of like trying to suppress it. I would be terrified like you know all the black mirror episodes they talk about these crazy concepts like I hope there's not the technology one day to read our minds. And then, because like we are, as human beings,

I think we're supposed to have crazy thoughts sometimes that pop in, we process, and pop out. I think the difference between crazy isn't whether we have these thoughts or not, it's what we do with these thoughts when they enter in our head. If you act on it. We act on them, yeah.

Sometimes having a crazy thought is to remind us how sane we are when we go, oh my God, that was just, get out of my head, you know, that type of thing. So I think it's very normal to have those thoughts, yeah. And they come in and they kind of make us either, it's like a fight or flight thing almost. I also think it's normal

because you're all of a sudden raising this baby and have to keep it alive that I'm like You're thinking about so many other things that you wouldn't think about day to day and I can say like I held your baby And the entire time I'm like, please don't drop this please. You know, it's like, of course I'm not gonna like let go of my arms, but it's like there's a thought in your head That's like, oh my god, like what if so I'm like, I think it's pretty normal Also, isn't it the reason that women and like mothers are more drawn to true crime is because they're living out the possibility Of something just so they can prepare for like their actual experience

Like I think that's like a psychological thing that happens because women are more likely to endure it. So they like prepare themselves We just learned something about ourselves I feel like I feel like when you have a baby too It's like it's or like a baby or just like a something so innocent Of course your brains gonna manifest like all of the awful things could happen to this like innocent being Well, that's the part that's like scary to me is am I manifesting it? like am I like is is me thinking about these things like a Sick version of myself like hoping they happen. No, I think it's just a reaction to the world that you live in Yeah, you know Leia. Do you have think it's just a reaction to the world that you live in.

Yeah. You know? Leia, do you have the same? I do, 100% all the time. Like I'll be holding him and I'll just be like, what if I just dropped him right now? It is crazy. I mean, I truly thought,

I thank God for Sharna being like, babe, you were not alone. Like I had terrible, terrible thoughts. And just to be like, you just need to thank them for coming. Yeah, I think I have them too. It means you care. I do care.

I would be like, oh my God, bitch, what's wrong with you? You need help. Why would you think that? Why would you think that just because she swallowed a little bit of water in the bathtub that she's gonna have to lay drowning and not wake up? Why would you think that?

And then it's like, no, that's an intrusive thought. And she's fine. And thank you for- I think that every night when I'm like, he's been fed and then he's sleeping and I'm just like, he's gonna be just choking at night Yeah, or it's like is she breathing? Is she breathing? She's probably not breathing. Is she and they're just like not breathing I've put like my hand on Rivers back or laid my ear against her chest just to make sure she's breathing

You know, like I've definitely done that just I know all the time the breathing check all the time. It's such a crazy so Margo hope you, you know. Have you had intrusive thoughts before? Definitely not to this extent. I mean, I've always had a like intruder syndrome where I always feel like tonight's the night someone's gonna break in, tonight's the night I'm gonna be killed.

Like I feel like I've always struggled with that, but it's like intensified now that we have a child, but the intrusive thoughts like are really wild and are crazy. Well, speaking of caring too much, James Van Der Beek had to apologize to his loved ones? Well, first of all, sad news, James Van Der Beep has been diagnosed with some kind of cancer.

Hopefully, they caught it in time, but he is now apologizing to his loved ones who had to find out of his cancer diagnosis through the media. Well, did his cancer diagnosis get leaked? Allegedly, yeah, a top boy had planned to leak the information. That's fucked up.

So I think it got out through that. Well then that makes sense for him to be like, I'm sorry that that's how you found out that way. That's definitely not how. I don't think James Vanerpeet has to apologize. I don't think he has to either. I think he probably felt like, you know. No, I hear you there,

but I hope that no one in his family made him feel like they were frustrated with him. Because like, I mean, this is obviously a very sensitive issue, but like this happens all the time where it's just like, we didn't like go down the list of every person we knew when we got engaged to make sure that we like let them know before we posted about it. But sometimes people feel a certain way about that.

And it's just like, it always reminds me how self-centered people are when they make your day about themselves. I'm not checking with my entire circle of influence or my friends to make sure you're good on my day, whatever my day is or my moment. When I got engaged, I posted a story right after because I kind of just wanted to be hands free and not be on my phone for the rest of the afternoon.

And I had friends who were actually upset with me that I didn't FaceTime them and tell them before I posted it on my story. All your friends thought in that moment, like their feelings were more important than your engagement. And I felt bad too, I was like. No, I'm sure you did, because you're a nice person. If I had to guess, I would say James Van Der Beek

is a people pleaser and probably just felt very much like. Well, he specifically said there's no playbook for how to announce these things, but I plan on talking about it at length with People Magazine at some point soon to raise awareness and tell my story on my own terms but that plan had to be altered early this morning when I was informed that a tabloid was going to run the news so he's basically pressured to release the information. I feel like that statement like it's a very disgusting disgusting

thing when tabloids like leak information that's so personal and so like just unethical. We talked about this on Plus last week where Perez Hilton has made a career on leaking information. Why isn't that that illegal? To some degree it has become. It's like why doesn't tabloids have to follow the same HIPAA laws that, I mean I know they're not doctors,

they're not taking the oath, but people's medical information shouldn't be so freely passed around. Well I think with the tabloid it's already passed HIPAA. I think HIPAA really only works within the company. Yeah, I don't think it's gonna be a HIPAA thing, but it just seems wrong that people are allowed to just talk about people's health so freely,

like media outlets. I mean, when Kate, the royal, when she had cancer, I mean, her situation was different, but. Or like when TMZ released information about Kobe Bryant's death before his family knew. It's just like, I feel like the James Van Der Beek thing, though a lot of it is like, that statement was kind of him

trying to take the narrative back from that tabloid versus like, it wasn't an apology, it was like. It's him being like, I'm gonna put this out so now every news article can write about it I'm talking about it with one thinking they have like I say I will say that that's my biggest problem right now even with the Margot Robbie and people being upset that she had a boy That I feel like us as a society are way too entitled to other people's personal information That like the fact that are you gonna make a bunch of money by releasing somebody's health diagnosis? Probably but I'm like there's just no ethics,

nothing that goes into it, and yet you feel like you're giving society something that they needed to know that doesn't change anybody's life. Knowing about James Van Der Beek's health diagnosis, but you did just put him in a situation where now he has to speak about something that's none of our business. And now we're talking about it.

I will say on the flip side though, there's celebrities like Tom Holland, where they just completely off the grid. Like not on Instagram. I love him. And now recently in an interview Tom was asked what was the last thing he googled and basically he fessed up and said well sometimes I google Zendaya so his girlfriend and basically he said the last thing I googled was actually Zendaya I'm not on social media and I delete it when I'm not using it so sometimes like it's more a bit of an anxiety thing but I'll check

to see if everything's good and to make sure we're all cool. Interesting. So like he it's more a bit of an anxiety thing, but I'll check to see if everything's good and to make sure we're all cool. Interesting. So like he, it's just texts. He'll just look and be like. It's very vulnerable for him to admit, but. Yeah. Can't he just text her? Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

It's just like, you good? But it's a good thing. Yeah, like why do you need to know like what like the tabloid headlines are spreading about like your girlfriend? But I will say, I saw a really cute video of them. I don't remember where they are, but it's like paparazzi is just flooding her

and he realizes that she's not right behind him and he's pushing people out of the way. And I was like, yes, my little short key. I do love that. Filled it. Tom Holland and I, one thing in common, we both like to Google Zendaya sometimes. You all have that in common.

Yeah. Do you Google Zendaya? I've definitely Googled Zendaya. Okay. One of my flexes is I saw Zendaya perform at the Sacramento State Fair way before she was famous. Shake it up, Ara. What was the last thing y'all Googled? Bunch of pull it up.

Hackers. Bunch of pull it up. I have private on so I can't check. Oh my God. Mine is who won football. Mine is when was DaVinci alive? Mine is wah-ah-ah song. Oh my God.

You know the song that's like ooh, I'm going to die. I'm going to die. Oh my god, mine is who won football. Mine is, uh, when was DaVinci Alive? Mine is, um, wah-ah-ah song. Oh my god. You know the song that's like wah-ah-ah? Yeah. I took a picture of my cat and he was yawning. It looked like he was screaming and I wanted to put that in the, in the Instagram. Just pull up your browser.

It'll be the last thing on your browser. No, it's, it, it just, my main screen and it goes to Shopify. You know what would really expose you? It says, It says November. What's happening? Search history, it just gives me the first. What was the last thing you searched on Instagram? He be clear in his answer.

So fuck you looking at it. So fuck you looking at it. He's like, it's so crazy, my history's just gone. I haven't Googled anything since October. That's so crazy, my history's just gone. I haven't googled anything since October. That's so crazy, someone must have hacked my phone or something. Suddenly he doesn't know how to use a phone. Mine was best erotic thriller books. Wait, what did it show?

Feeling unsatisfied at home. Nick has to bat an eye on Nick. Nick has deleted search history. She's got fairy smut. Nick, we getting, no, literally, we getting in our Nick. Nick has deleted search history. You have a run. She's got fairy smut. Nick, we get, no, literally, we get in bed and Nick's like, all right, good night. And I'm like.

Read a chapter. And he took off her panties. While her wings fluttered. That's so funny. It's a wild concept. That is crazy. Brings a whole new meaning to bury dust. A whole new meaning.

How are you feeling about Martha Stewart complaining about Ryan Reynolds, Nick? Yeah, your best friend. Your bestie. We're not best friends. I am. Don't take your best friend. Nick is a big fan of Ryan. Are you trying to Travis Kelcey Taylor Swift from Reynolds?

Say more? What do you mean? Oh, interesting. Like Travis shooting my shot. Shooting your shot in the pod. Yeah, yeah, sure. We'll take that. I aspire to be friends with Ryan Reynolds, for sure. How did it make you feel when Martha Stewart said

that she says her neighbor is Ryan Reynolds. Yeah, what's the quote? She said, is not so funny in real life. He's very serious. He can act funny, but he isn't funny. I felt triggered. And you wanna know something? He's not so funny in real life, she insisted.

No, he's not so funny. How many times did you say that? I mean, good Lord, she's like. You know what? I don't know if she got my point across, but he's not funny. What did she say this? Do you know what is very funny?

That quote. It was in an interview with Bilt and basically she continued on saying, he's probably on the list just cause he covers himself up in his movies and you don't see his face. Is he one of those, question mark? One of those what? Like.

Those people? That just like say they're funny but aren't funny. The internet thinks he's funny. This is very Ionomatix on Vator Pub rules being like, you guys obviously don't take sketch comedy seriously. The idea that you're A, supposed to perform for your neighbors, and B, I would say what, 80, 90% of the people

in the comedy business or entertainment industry, like don't walk around life being funny. I met Kevin Hart once, didn't make me laugh. Right, well you have a point, so she's neighbors with him, so some interaction she's had with him outside of like a performing context is what she's basing it on. Also like Ryan Reynolds is like never claimed

to be a comedian, like he can write a good joke, right? He's obviously creative and funny, like. Well he did tweet a response saying I disagree with her, but I tried that once, the woman is unexpectedly spry, she really closed the gap after a mile or so Yeah, I mean he can write a good joke like he's not a see but was that response funny? It was at his best work. I don't think you know I thought it was a little I thought it was like a little ha ha cheeky

Here's the thing Martha Stewart is trying to write a joke in response to someone calling you not funny is maybe the hardest thing to do I do have to kind of I guess guess, give him credit for that. Yeah. That's true. And then his best friend slash, you know, internet enemy said someone had to say it or something. Finally someone said it. Hugh Jackman. Yeah. That's a funny guy.

Hugh Jackman. No, but like, I obviously, Martha Stewart's an icon for all the obvious reasons, whether it's her being an ex-con or friends with Snoop Dogg or the fact that she is like, you know, the MacGyver of the kitchen. But also if I met Martha Stewart, be like, well, she didn't teach me how to book cookies.

You know, like what? Like, I don't know. Ryan Reynolds didn't like get shot in the chest and come back as Deadpool. Is that the whole thing that he does? Well, he's Deadpool. Yeah, Deadpool can't die. Essentially, yeah.

I mean, Martha's not funny, right her existence is funny She's a comedy queen you think so? Yes, she can be funny. I think for sure I don't I don't I don't like Ryan Reynolds checking his mail the same time Martha is and I'm be like, hey good morning And I'm like, well, that wasn't funny. So it feels like a little Sorry, like is he not I know imagine a lot of times he probably is a pretty serious guy and I'd be like, well, that wasn't funny. So it feels like a little weird. Like, okay, I'm sorry. Like, is he not, I can't even imagine, a lot of times he probably is a pretty serious guy, you know?

Do you guys ever hide from your neighbors? Yeah, all the time. All the time. Sometimes I look at the people and I'm like, okay, are they outside? Okay, that's my time to go. I wanna know the neighbor beef between Ryan Reynolds and Martha Stewart.

I wanna know how it started. She's waiting outside. She's waiting outside. Or is he waiting outside? Like, did she say this because- She's going in the back door. The problem with my neighbors is, is they're, like my two neighbors on each side,

incredibly kind. So kind. Yeah. And outgoing, and wanna get to know us, and they like force us to be engaging, but it is, I don't wanna do it. You know? Sometimes you wanna take out the trash

in your underwear and not be confronted. Yeah. Same. Sure, yeah. Yeah. We don't need do it, you know? Sometimes you wanna take out the trash in your underwear and not be confronted. Yeah. Same. Sure, yeah. Yeah. We don't need to talk about everything. I tell you what, if I do wanna take the trash out of my underwear, I definitely do not wanna

be talking to my neighbors about it. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. I don't wanna have to tell a joke. I don't wanna have to share an anecdotal story. You're like, man, I'm just trying to take my trash out. They want me to do a tight five in my tighty-whities. You know who is funny?

Marissa from Love is Blind. I'm sorry, the PR backlash after. No, the backpedaling was great. Her behavior is funny. Well, if you say it, well. Funny ha ha. Like we're laughing at her? No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Like I think she's like, well, I don't know what she's doing. Like funny ha ha. Like off. Off. She is shitting the bed. She's shitting the bed is what she's doing. And I love Marissa, but it's a little questionable.

Well, that's the thing is like we love Marissa, but like lately it's kind of like Marissa, we loved you. Yeah, I think the behavior at the reunion was gross on, for my opinion, like Hannah and Hannah. Yeah, I mean, I just didn't appreciate Marissa like really honing in on like. Nick D. Yeah, and it's like what we're just sending like hate.

Like now we want like, you got enough hate now. It's like, okay, now everyone go attack him for like not thinking I'm attractive as soon as he saw me. It's like. It's the best friends for me that I was like at the reunion. She was like dying on the Hill that this is my best friend and I know everything

and Nikki, you're not being forthcoming and then does what? Good morning America? And then it was like, good morning Washington. Good morning Washington, D.C. For the people who don't know, the local news show, they're all from D.C., they had a panel of a handful of the people from the show, Marissa was being one of them,

and completely walked back her comments. It was like, well, we're not best friends. We're friends on the show. And yeah. She was like, and I don't stand by her behavior. The way she treated Nick was unacceptable. Stand by, you were literally. You jumped in.

Yeah. Tag team. She was like, no, no, girl, you're doing enough. Let me help. Yeah. I don't think we've eviscerated her bad enough. Boom. Meanwhile, we got nothing from her

out of the whole Ramses of it all. Besides the fact that they were still fucking. That was just randomly thrown in there. How do we know? She was berating Nick and then she's like, we all make mistakes or do stupid things. I was fucking this man and it was just like, whoa. Whoa, yeah.

He was like, well, if you were so mad at me for like these comments, why'd you call me like after? And then Marissa was like, we all have died. That's why I kept fucking him. First of all, I think Ramses' comments about birth control and condoms have nothing to do with whether Marissa continues to fuck him or not. Like, it's a separate criticism.

It doesn't let Ramses off the hook for his comments. And we've all, like, listen, we've all had sex with people or gone back with people we know aren't right for us. Like I don't fault Marissa for having a weak moment. Like that has nothing to do with how she's handling the handle of it all. No, no, no, we're not saying that. I think it's just that we're saying the fact

that like we got nothing from their conversation. The only thing we did get is like to find out that they continued fucking. I feel like Marissa's mom did top in though. Marissa's mom. I ate everything she said. I was like, ooh. She was stirring the fucking pot.

She was leaning over to Katie and being like. Well, she made you feel that way the whole time. For a whole year made you, and honestly, valid fucking question. Valid question, yeah. Like, don't just move on. Marissa's mom was like, y'all aren't friends at all. Yeah. They aren't.

They're not even not best friends. They're barely even friends. For Marissa to like backtrack her comments like she did so quickly. And what's that, and I'm curious, like she really gave Ramses a window in redemption. And I'm curious to hear Ramses' thoughts when we talk about him, because like, listen. You're saying Marissa did.

Marissa, sorry. Marissa gave during the reunion and in the interview with that DC show, she gave like, I am willing to lean into the popular narrative. She is willing to throw someone under the bus, you know, for her own benefit or her friends benefit. Right. So like it suggests that, you know, she wouldn't go against the grain if she thought it would benefit her publicly. Because you're saying the switch up, right? Where it's like she went in on Nick and now she's friends with Nick. She, she, yeah. Even when she came on here, she, we were talking about how Hannah wasn't treating Nick nicely

and she agreed with us. Yeah, but she called her best friend. She called her best friend on our show too. So. I think you can be best friends with her and be like, I didn't, I don't support her actions. Like that, you know, watching that was hard to watch because it's, I think, hard to watch for anyone. But then to not even hold her accountable at the reunion when clearly Hannah has not learned a damn thing. I mean, she showed no remorse.

She showed zero, it's like, yeah, I'm direct. Yeah, I guess he was patient with me. I should work on that. Meanwhile, yeah, she wanted to get even. Nick did the right thing where she's like, hey, I just wanna point out that Hannah is a really good, nice person, she doesn't deserve the hate.

And then she took that opportunity to then try to throw him under the bus, be like, why are you liking their comments? I would be willing to bet that some of the comments he allegedly liked were he was maybe liking people defending him and not criticizing her would be my guess. That being said, yeah, it's just like also, yeah, the whole like, admit you thought I was ugly,

admit you thought I looked like an internet, like what? The whole thing we liked about Nick is that he didn't take the bait from producers about maybe how he might really feel. And he chose to not be problematic. He chose to maybe keep some of his opinions to himself because he thought some of those opinions might be hurtful. And so what?

Then he had an off-camera conversation with his boys. His boys like everyone just being honest with how they feel. And those boys, some of which includes Steven, someone we clearly can't trust, who has no integrity, throws Nick D under the bus and we're what? You want us to now hate Nick D because he still refuses publicly to like disparage Hannah?

Like Hannah wants me to call me ugly, call me ugly, call me ugly, just so that she can like have the internet shit on him? And it's also like we watched this entire season and maybe he said that, but he showed zero actions of thinking that. I mean, he stood by her side the entire time. He was like wanting to work through it.

He was like, okay with her talking so down to him. Like he never once was like, well, I'm not really attracted to you. Like he never once let it slip that maybe he's not 100% attracted to her. And so I think that like shows me enough that he, you know, like maybe you heard this from someone and maybe that is like where some insecurities came in

and why you were treating him the way that you were. But his actions never once showed that, at least from what we saw. Well, the specific word was underwhelmed was what they kind of like got down to what he said. Is when the reveal happened. That he rated her like a five out of 10 or something. Well, that's what they said, but then he basically,

he chalked it up to being like, I said, I was underwhelmed. So I mean, we still don't know exactly what was said. I'm sorry, like when you girls get together and you talk your shit or whatever it is, fine, talk your shit, do your thing. Girls get together, you guys talk about shit, boys get together, these are meant to be private conversations. Certainly within reason, but you don't get to go

and then have someone spy on this conversation who wants to either be a pick me or a guy, well, I guess a pick me can go both ways, but then to be like, hey, you know what Nick G said in the middle of this conversation where no one was supposed to hear about that, and we also probably said a bunch of shit too, but yeah, he called her a five.

What the fuck? But it's also like, you said you weren't attracted to him either, you were like, oh my God, he lied, he said this, he said that, the only difference is you said it to the camera, you said it to the world, and he said it to his boys. And then for Ramses to sit next to him and be like, okay, now's the time to take accountability. It's like, you're the one who wants to say

it's time to take accountability, but you've sat here mute for the last hour. He wouldn't even look. He was looking forward. And the applause for it too, where it's like, really, because he spoke up one time. Also her putting him on blast about the notebook thing where it's like you and your friends went through his stuff. Weird.

That to me where I'm like, you lost all credibility when you started off with my friends, thought it would be fun to go through his thing. And, and, and did y'all see that she posted said notebook on her Instagram story. What? Oh did she, so she took a photo? That's so gross.

A friend of hers posted it and she reshared it onto her story. And it is- After the reunion dropped? This girl has- This brings to me, I'm trying to be the most famous person from Love is Blind.

Thank you. Also, yes, I don't care. They're all trying to be famous. They win on TV. They all have their Instagrams active and on. Yeah. They're all married in 30 days. They're all making TikTok sounds

to cheeky, trending music. They're all trying to go viral. All of them, every single one of them Yeah, shut the fuck up. Yeah, all of you imagine going on. I'm like the line and you're like, I don't want any attention Yeah, I'm deleting my Instagram. No one follow me. No one follow me. I just really came on here for love She did look snatched on my couch make it was fire. Yeah Honestly, everyone looks great Ramses came in with his little villain outfit I will say he was giving a little villain.

And I'll ask him about if he chose that for a reason. Taylor gave a trophy wife. I was gonna say. That outfit, I was like, I don't know how she's sitting in it. Taylor and Garrett were eating. Garrett was the voice of reason, I feel. He was.

For every little grill, he would just say one thing. Yeah, Garrett's face the whole time was just like. And we will be talking with Garrett and Taylor next Wednesday for a groundbreaking episode of Going Deeper. We'll get all of their answers about the reunion, their relationship, they've been married over a year. We'll actually get to talk to the couples that you didn't get to hear from at the reunion. They have a little insight about the reunion. It's really quite fascinating as well. But also, yeah, Steven. Yuck.

Him making the joke about the meat trying to get to his segment that much faster. Like, homeboy, calm down. And even then, you gave us literally nothing. Yuck. Him making the joke about the meat trying to get to his segment that much faster, like, homeboy, calm down, and even then, you gave us literally nothing. Nothing, nothing. He's like, well, I'm not gonna explain it because no one's gonna believe me. It's like, well, we're not believing you

because you're not explaining anything. Just say something. And you're still lying. He was like, oh, I don't remember, and then he started describing the conversation. Reciting the text. And then he made it seem like it was just like two sentences, and then Monica was like, no, there were fucking paragraphs.

I deleted the text. I never delete a text thread. What? What is it? He said he only talked to her that day, and Monica's like, well, there was a whole thing. And he's like, well, I knew her before. For years, I've never met her in person

because I met her on Instagram. And I actually don't believe that. I absolutely believe he's never met her in person. Yeah, but they definitely messaged before. Oh, yeah. I mean, he wasn't wrong when he went on his high horse, or not high horse, but soap box, and was like, no matter what I say here,

you guys are gonna hate me. That part I was like, okay, you're not wrong. You're not wrong. You're a, you're a liar. Give us something to move for. Self-awareness, though. True. The crowd aplauded Francis.

No, that's not self-awareness, that's playing the victim. He was playing the victim, yes. When you're not the actual victim. He knew there was no savings,, I think he was just like. The way that he was like the casual conversation of just like, hey, what have you been up to? So I'm into some new fetishes. But I just had to ask as a friend.

No, it was like it started because she reached out about the heart condition and then it turned to fetishes and it's like, I mean, I guess. Might as well ask about it. Are you a doctor, sir? And his excuse was like something along the lines of like, well, old me would have done this and I wanted to see what new me would do.

And it's just like, to Monica's point, bro, don't be showing up to love as fucking blind, pretending that you're ready to get married. When you're, this is not the show to find yourself. Yes. Or to challenge yourself to see if you've like overcome demons. No, challenge yourself to see if you have like

any type of character whatsoever. Like run a marathon, do something different. Oh my God. Oh my God, did you see at the New York Marathon someone held up a sign that said, Oh, there's a really good music. Lisa wants to go to the distance. Lisa wants to go to the distance, yeah.

That was really funny. That made me laugh. That was really great. I saw a pregnant woman holding a sign that was like, we all know you know how to finish. Oh. Here it is. Man, people are good with those signs. We love that.

What else is at the reunion? Tim and Alex. The Tim and Alex stuff was wild to me. Just the way they were communicating. I'm specific. I think I'm definitely in the odd band out here, but I'm team Tim. I see team Tim's side.

I see them both. Yeah. Me too, well yeah. I think it was disrespectful for Alex to take a nap. I also don't think it's that big of a deal at the end of the day also. I understand her being like, I worked, I had to work. I have this condition where I get tired easily,

all that makes sense. I think as her partner, he could have given her a little bit of understanding. There was stuff that I feel like we didn't fully address, too, because basically she said she was with the family from 11 to six, then had to bartend from nine to three, her first time ever bartending. And then she took one nap.

She was the one time you bartended since the show was today, you're meeting his family? The night of, but didn't you catch where he was kind the show was today, you're meeting his family? Come on. But didn't you catch where he was kind of implying that she was partying a lot? He tried to. He tried to. He saw that, he tried to twist it,

and she was like, no. She was like, no, no, no, let's correct. We were out to dinner the night before. That was a different. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. And again, I think we all agree that there's clearly not a match. Oh, not at all.

He is a very earnest guy who takes himself very seriously. But he is the type of guy who he means what he says, he follows through, and if he promises something, he's gonna do it. And she's more kind of like, everything's kind of a suggestion for Alex, you know? And I just think their personalities

are just the polar opposites. Since we're, especially with Love is Blind, these are a group of people who go through this very intense experience, right? They film it at least, I don't know, nine months to a year and a half in advance from when it airs, right?

And then they, for the most part, live in a similar city. So like, while they get done filming, between the time it's done filming and the time it airs, these group of people like kind of only have each other and they're clearly bonding for a lot of the times, minus maybe the couples who get married and kind of do their own thing and kind of like focus on their relationship.

And to see so many of these people show up to the reunion and just go fucking rogue and absolutely throw some of their peers and slash friends under the bus for what they perceive as their own benefit is fucking crazy to me. The whole Marissa and Hannah dynamic, it's just like, this is a bunch of fake friend bullshit that at the end of the day, when it comes down to what matters,

like the other day, I love Marissa, but the only person that matters to Marissa is Marissa. Marissa just wants to look good, and Marissa just wants people to side with her. And it's hard to argue against that because of all the backtracking and the flip-flopping, and they're not standing on anything. Just to close off the Tim and Alex part of it,

I feel like by the end of that conversation, just the room realized we're not getting anywhere with this because the whole time he was like, well, you called me a little bitch. And she's like, well, you are a little bitch. And he's like, well, why'd you call me a little bitch? And it's like, okay. Yeah, it felt like, I mean,

and honestly Taylor and Garrett gave us an insight onto how long that conversation actually went. Yeah, I think at the end of the day, they're just not meant to be together. I think once you put your hands on someone and call them out of their name and he gets loud, and I understand why she was doing it, if you're getting loud and yelling

and production is right outside and they're gonna wanna come in and film this and this is not something we need to have filmed, so her being like, shh, okay, let's stop. There was a lot of controlling the edit too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I don't need at the Love Is Mine reunions? I don't need to catch up with everyone.

I was just gonna say that. Why did we spend 45 minutes? I had to like, who's Katie and why am I meeting her baby? 45 minutes, but I couldn't get a follow-up question? Also, AD, if you don't wanna talk about your current relationship, just say. No, I love her. I love seeing her on my screen.

No, no, we love AD, but it was like, she could've given us what Brittany did, which is like, yeah, I'm seeing someone, and like, I'm not, that's all I'm gonna say. She gave a whole 30 second performance, so it's like, eh, eh. Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't it leaked that she's part of Perfect Match?

Sure, yes. So she could just be teasing Perfect Match. I know, but like, I just wasn't. I'm just saying, we don't need segments stopping. Yeah, we don't need, like, love Bliss, love Zach, like, we follow them on Instagram. Like, we see their lives, we don't, you know, like, I don't need the ketchup, I don't need the, like, the.

80s reactions, though, were everything. No, no, they ate, and like, I need, I love the reactions. I don't need the, like, tell me about your life since the show. But they should be making that its own special. Where are they now? What are we up to? Oh sure, there you go.

It's so easy. And I won't watch it. Yeah, exactly. Or you could do a spin-off of these characters that you love so much that you need to bring back to reunions. Or a stood at the end or something. I guess this is the most frustrating we get like no, it's like, hey, hey, Ramses, any thoughts?

He's like, clearly I don't think that. Anyways, we're moving on. Let's spend 20 minutes on A.D. and Nick and Zach and Bliss or I don't know. Yeah, for me it was like the lack of follow-up questions too Okay, we're moving on. Let's spend 20 minutes on AD and Nick and Zach and Bliss. Yeah, for me it was like the lack of follow-up questions too where I'm like, it just reminded me of the end of the Love Island reunion when it was like, Rob, we're gonna ask you the question

that everybody wants to know. Are you still wearing overalls? And it was like, nobody, there's so many other more important questions to ask. Vanessa clearly doesn't watch this show. You think so? I think she scams. I think she's doing something else.

She like, you know, she might prep for, you know, the big day of the interview and watch some clips and skims and she gets like the cliff notes from her team, but she is not a fan and she doesn't watch. But she spends time on those jokes. I do also think what's important. What's wrong with that? I do think what's important for hosts is to like.

The jokes? Sorry. But a host has to be more than just jokes to Natalie's point. What's wrong with that? I do think what's important for hosts is to like. The jokes. Sorry. But a host has to be more than just jokes to Natalie's point. Yeah, I think they like need to be paying attention to like the TikToks and what the audience is saying and what like is going on in the outside world while the show's airing.

Like that's the stuff they need to be paying attention to because that's the stuff we as viewers wanna know. Look like you have an honest opinion or a take on what we watch that you sincerely believe in and that you want to have a point of view on. That's what I wanna hear. I also didn't need to see the photos of Brittany and Leo in Miami.

It's like a selfie and then a photo of the watch. It's like, that felt like it was 10 minutes long and it's, for what? Okay, cool. I did like their conversation though. Like Leo and Brittany. Love Leo and Brittany. Big fans. But they're like, and we have footage from Miami. And it's like, no, you don't. Like I was- When you're right. Cause they're like,

let's show them footage picture. Yeah. There's no follow up questions from them. There's no like, well, what do you mean by that? Like Andy Cohen's great at that. He's great at being like, wait, hold on. Like you just said something that doesn't make sense. Let's go back. Yeah. It almost felt like everybody came prepared to say what they wanted to say. They said their thing. And then there were no follow-up questions that actually got them to pause and get stuck and come up with something else. Let's wrap it up. Let's just wrap it up. How many times did you say that? Vanessa. Vanessa loved that joke. Oh my God, it was brutal. They spent more time on jokes and transitions than they did on follow up questions

or what we actually want to know about. At some point, they do need to get new hosts. Oh yeah. I mean, how many seasons of Love is Blind are we on now? This is seven? They just celebrated their five year anniversary during the reunion. Yeah, well Minneapolis will be, yeah.

The five year. Right, my bad. They're about two. I mean, Leo comparing choosing between Brittany and Hannah to pasta and steak. Yeah, that was brutal. I thought it was hilarious. People are eating it up.

And who's the steak? And who's the pasta? That's what I wanna know, what am I? Do you guys feel like you're more pasta or steak? I'm definitely more pasta. I mean, I don't eat beef, so I'm a pasta. Pasta, steak. I'll be impossible meat, I'll take that.

Ew. I love impossible meat. Chemical meat? No, no, hear me out. If you eat I'll be impossible meat. I'll take that. Ew. I love impossible meat. Chemical meat? No, no, hear me out. If you eat it two times, you won't know the difference. The first time's always shocking. I don't doubt. But first of all, I will always know there's a difference,

but there's no way that shit's healthier for you. Oh, for sure it is. It's not chemically made. It may not be like, hey, I'm not eating red meat, you know, for whatever the negative. It is questionable that it's plant that bleeds like me. But I do love it. There's a lot of sodium in that.

It tastes good though. How's your cholesterol? Not bad. I'm very, very good. I don't know if it's cholesterol is the marker. I feel like Leo is the only one who has taken accountability for his actions and who's come back on social media and has redeemed himself.

People love him on social media. People are saying little did we know we would hate him in the show but love him. Because he's like kind of a, he presents a bit of a dark kind of guy and he doesn't have a filter. He says kind of these outlandish things which from reality TV you can easily edit something. When people don't have a filter,

it's easy to make them look foolish or stupid or kind of out of touch. But the more you get to see of Leo, it's just like a guy who's actually more self-aware than you realize, doesn't take himself that seriously, and more than anything, can admit when he's wrong. And that's all we really wanna hear from these people when they fuck up, is just like, you know what?

That was fucked up of me and I was really ashamed. And we don't wanna hear excuses, even if excuses are valid. We know, Ramses, that this show is edited. We get it. Like, how did you get to a point where the show could actually even take you out of context, is my question. We'll ask him shortly.

That's what you wanna see. You wanna see people take accountability and what Leo's doing, make fun of themselves. Where it's like, oh, that's not who I am or that's not my personality, but my God, that guy did talk about money a lot, didn't he? Like, you know, make fun of yourself, but also be like, yeah, I looked like a douche.

Or like, it's like, it wasn't my intention, but I realized how I sound when I talk. Which is what he said. And I'll take note of that. You know what Leo does do? What? Is share drinks. He does share drinks.

And anything and everything. That's fine. That was interesting. Well, that's what Brittany was saying. Like that was the first thing she was like, I can't do this. Because any drink she had, he needed, even if it was the same drink, that's what Brittany was saying. Like that was the first thing she was like, I can't do this because any drink she had, he needed. Even if it was the same drink, he would drink her drink. They could never do it.

I could not only sharing a cup of water to get a bed. I'll never forget that moment. I go, y'all, y'all do what? We share a cup. I do the same thing. So do you have to wake up in the middle of the night and be like, hey, hand me the cup. Damn, that's love. Caught up in the night and be like, get your own. Can I have a drink? Just the cup. Yes. Damn, that's love. Caught him tonight, be like, get your own. Can I have a drink?

Do you also share a toothbrush? Just the water. Just the water. No, Nick will take my toothbrush if we're traveling and he didn't bring one. Is that a fresh toothbrush? Oh, really? I have like a travel toothbrush.

Am I supposed to what? You take it every time or a new one? No, I take it every time. And explain to me how that's any different than making out. So you do share a toothbrush? No, no, no. We don't share.

He takes mine. But you share the same travel one every single time. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no making out. No, no, no, we don't share. He takes mine. But you share the same travel one every single time. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You get to get my toothbrush from time to time. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I take a, I have a travel toothbrush and I have a toothbrush at home.

Natalie never forgets her toothbrush. I forget half the time. And he will, he'll use mine because he has forgotten his. Cause it's like, what's my wife? I'm not like, babe, I'll just bring one. That's not the time. And he will, he'll use mine because he has forgotten his. Cause it's like, I'm not like, babe, I'll just bring one. That's not the conversation. It's I'm packing mine and I'm thinking he's packing his. When you're traveling.

And then we get there and then he's like, I don't remember, I'm just gonna use yours. You share a toothbrush when you travel. We don't share. Here's a hack. He takes it. I wanna make it very clear, we don't share. Here's a hack though.

When you're traveling, every hotel has toothbrushes. Just go to the lobby and ask a person at the front. Remember that, Nick. All right, well let's see if Ramses is willing to share toothbrushes with his next girlfriend. Article is an online furniture company that sells modern furniture and decor directly to consumers.

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Ramzes! Going y'all. How's it going? How's it going? Good. Ramzes. Have you listened to the show? I was just going to say I've heard everything. I don't take it personally. I recognize there's a lot to talk about, so I'm happy to answer questions. I said to Nellie this morning, I go, we have Ram's Sunday, she goes, what? I wanna applaud you because honestly, I feel like so many people who go through similar experiences on other reality TV shows

or Love is Blind will take these comments so personally and be like, Nick hates us or this show, like, fuck this show, I'm never talking to the show. So I do really wanna applaud you and we appreciate you coming on to share the context and share your side of things. 100% we appreciate that. We definitely don't say things to get people

to come on to defend themselves, but, cause we obviously were just watching a show that we recognize can be edited and we don't meet these people, but you're right. Like, honestly, you show it up, man. We if nothing else, we give you a lot of credit because we were definitely I don't think we've been harder on anyone else. No, I get it. I understand that you can only really comment on, you know,

what you're seeing and that's understandable. But I'm happy to, you know, provide context and sort of some explanations. I know what is perceived seems really wild. And I promise like I'm not that person that people are trying to make me out to be, but happy to talk about it. Okay, so let's get into that. So obviously we recognize the show can be edited,

it is edited and things like that. And you kind of alluded to that at the reunion. That being said, as someone who knows what it's like to be on reality TV, I guess it's just hard for me to understand how we can just blame editing across the board with like just how much was said about the two, like whether it's the contraception

or the period sex and things like that. So with that being said, can you just like fill in the gaps? Cause even the reunion, you were like, hey, it's out of context. And then Nick and Vanessa told a couple of puns and some Taylor Swift jokes. And they were like, wait, we want more Ramses. Anyways, can you just like put it to bed, so to speak,

what do you mean by out of context and what was the actual conversation like? Yeah, so we'll start with the contraception conversation. That was the first thing that sort of came up. I think that conversation, obviously it was a longer conversation. It was 30, 45 minutes long. I don't know how long,

and you kind of just see two minutes or so of it. And really the whole point of that conversation was to talk about what our long-term method, the contraception was gonna be. I know the perception from it is like, this guy's anti-condom, this guy is sort of like, is just concerned about his own personal pleasure

in this situation. Trust me, I'm well aware of, you know, what hormonal contraception can do to a woman's body. I'm aware of all of these things. And so, you know, we, me and Arissa are very candid when it comes to these sort of conversations. We're willing to say like, you know, what it is, you is, whether it was the comment about sex with a condom being not as enjoyable as without one, obviously. So you catch these very candid moments.

But there are also moments where I was trying to explain that I recognize that we live in a society where women, the pressure is primarily placed on women to deal with the question of contraception and that men typically don't have that responsibility placed on them. You only heard the second half of that, but I promise the point I was trying to make at that moment is a sick acknowledgement of the fact that that is a reality that we're faced

with. And so we talked about other methods of contraception, you know, we talked about a vasectomy and what it would look like for me to get a vasectomy and I would look into that. And ultimately, we talked about also using the rhythm method where Marissa would track her cycle and I would use a condom when I need to and whatever the case may be. And so this was a very nuanced conversation that we had that was really brought down into just kind of a couple minutes. And I was really just trying to be very considerate in that moment.

I promise that's not the way it looks, but I was really trying to understand what would work best for us in a marriage. I promise I'm not anti-condom or whatever the conversation is on the internet. Do you guys ever just discuss the old fashioned pullout? I mean, I know I'm not necessarily recommending it as a one that always works

and there's clearly risks involved, but I think if we're being honest, many of us in committed relationships, especially ones where the woman in the relationship doesn't wanna take birth control, there's a little bit of like, eh, we'll do our best, and then we'll accept the consequences,

whatever those consequences may be. Did you guys just practically just say, hey, well, if this works out and we get married, or were you just that anti-kid at that time? So my thing with the, so no, so when we decided what our sort of solution was going to be it was pretty much yeah mixture of pull-out game and her cycle and sort of moving

forward she would you know also agreed with me at the point that you know using a condom every single time in a marriage was probably not the most feasible thing or the thing that we both wanted in that situation. But even with the kids you you know, that's a conversation we had in the pods about what our timeline would look like. And so even in that conversation, like the timeline had changed with her. And so that kind of caught me off guard. But I had no point. I recognize the risk that we're taking, especially, you know, playing the pullout game. I recognize the risk that we're playing there. And I And if we were to have kids, that's a responsibility I would take upon myself

and we would handle that situation. That's a risk that you're playing. And I would have been more than happy to take that responsibility if we had kids. So. Okay. Yeah, I appreciate all of this context. And we had Marissa on and she did bring up the vasectomy conversation and how that was included,

but cut out of the edit. I do think, unfortunately, the edit was against you because it was very much Marissa being like, some of the best sex I've ever had is with a condom and you being like, well, I need to enjoy sex and I don't enjoy sex with a condom. So I do think the edit was a little bit against you in that conversation.

You're not alone there, Ramses. No one, I don't think anyone's a fan of it. Well, clearly Marissa. I mean, I think I felt, I felt like I just said the quiet part out loud, but it's just the way it was perceived. It didn't look great on me. And I honestly watching it back, my jaw was on the floor because I recognized what the

conversation was. And I knew immediately like what the perception was going to be in that moment. So it was a rough watching those conversations back for sure. Okay. But you understand everyone's opinion because you clearly had the same watching it back. Just being like, oh my God, what the fuck? Oh no, for sure. This is crazy.

Listen, if I was an outsider, if you were watching this conversation back, I'd be like, yeah, this guy's a douche bag. But immediately. So trust me, I understand. Can you add the context that was missing during the period sex conversation? Absolutely.

So this conversation was something that had been building up over the past days, weeks. I understand the perception of this is, Marissa has, she's dealing with all of these health issues, right? And I am simply there, only concerned about my pleasure, just trying to demand sex and just concerned about, when is the next time,

why are we not having enough sex, basically. The way I approached this conversation was wasn't about sex, it was about our physical intimacy and the way it played out, not just in the bedroom, but it just in our day to day. There were moments where we would go out on dates. And, you know, I'm a very affectionate person. I like to, you know, like hug and, you know, hold hands and all of that. And there was like a moment, for example, where I kind of put my hand on her leg just to

kind of as we were riding in the Uber to a date. And she was like, like, please stop. And obviously, I can respect that, you know, I know she has like ADHD and a lot of sensory stuff can be a lot for her, but there are also moments in, you know, just cuddling where she kind of brushes my arm off. And so I'm starting to notice like all of these, we're not communicating in terms of like our physical affection and intimacy.

And it also played out in the bedroom. Like I won't go into too much into detail, but it pretty much, it felt very detached. It felt when we had sex that you know once we finished she'd get up go to the bathroom clean off and you know just kind of lay on the other side of the bed. And so I'm picking up on these things and my concern was really our physical intimacy. It doesn't seem to be really connecting like it feels like there's some sort of detachment there that I was concerned about because of the way that I communicate my love.

And so if there wasn't incompatibility there, then that's something that I felt that we needed to talk about and we needed to sort of figure out. Because it's something that I wanted to figure out before we got married. It's not something that I wanted to leave until we get married. It becomes an issue potentially. And then you you know, you have to deal with the, just the heartbreak of a divorce. And so that was the way I approached it. I recognize that Marissa in her past has dealt with men who have not given her the respect when it comes to a lot of these issues she's dealing with

when it comes to her health. And so she's had these really wild expectations placed on her and how she should communicate and express herself. And so I can understand why she came into that conversation probably thinking like, oh, here we go again. Here's the same shit I've dealt with in the past. And this is the same type of guy that I'm dealing with now. But I think even after that conversation, we spoke more about it and we brought some clarity into what exactly it was that I was trying to focus on in that moment. So it's interesting hearing that, Ramses, and I appreciate that context, but it almost sounds like

Marissa got triggered by this conversation maybe from her past and then threw out, you know, hey, but I'm on my period. why can't you be empathetic to what I'm feeling? Like, do you feel like, like in that moment when she said that, did you kind of give like a, oh fuck, how is this gonna be looked at in a way? Am I making sense? It's like a Trump card conversation where it's like you're trying to connect with her

and she's like, well what I'm on my period Which obviously as we're all watching we're like fuck this guy, you know, like yeah. Yeah, I get it yeah, no, of course like I I've always and I know it again like it probably doesn't it doesn't come off that way But I when I approach conversations, I try to be very understanding considered especially, you know when it comes to a partner Of where they are in that moment where there that moment, whatever issues they may be dealing with. I would never try to either force myself or try to put her into a position where she has to, she's dealing with all of these issues, but she has to, for some reason or another, prioritize my sexual pleasure

or prioritize how I'm feeling in the moment. And so I understand why she was pissed off and she's dealing with all of these things. And so I understand why she, in that moment, maybe didn't wanna have that conversation. Unfortunately, in this experience, we don't have the luxury of time. And so there are times we're gonna have conversations

that we maybe don't wanna have in the moment or we may there are times we're going to have conversations that we maybe don't want to have in the moment or we may be pushed into a situation where we have to speak on something because every day is different. Every day you're presented with new issues in this experience, then you just don't have a lot of time. And so I recognize that, and I see it, you can see it on her face. I recognize that she's uncomfortable. And so it was a typical conversation. It was, I wanted me to recognize where she was at, but also communicate what I was feeling in the moment. Because we had a, we were less than a week out

at that point, I believe, before the marriage. The timeline makes a lot of sense in terms of when anything happens in these moments, like you're describing, I think in real life, we have the benefit of saying to ourselves, yeah, maybe now's not the time. I'll table that for a second. And then maybe a couple weeks later,

you bring something up, hey, this happened in the past, I don't wanna talk about it when you're not feeling triggered. But yeah, you don't have that benefit of being like, well, I guess I just need to address it now. Here we go. Do you think that that conversation is kind of what like ultimately shifted you to end the engagement? Not for me, no.

I like, so for some reason or another, our depiction of our sort of our relationship is very focused on our physical connection. It seems as if our sexual connection, our physical connection is something that's like hyper important for me. It's important, but it's not, it wasn't everything. And ultimately it wasn't the, it wasn't something that shifted sort of my, my, my decision in the end. I talked a lot about like our differences in our energies, and I know that word is sometimes just vague.

It's like, what do you mean by energy? But I think we saw some of it at the reunion, but also just the way we perceive things, the way we react to things, the way we approach things. It's just my temperament. I'm just very level, very just kind of, you're not going to me like way too high or way too low.

And so there was just a big difference in compatibility with us when it came to that. And it sort of sprouts out into other aspects of our relationship and our dynamic. And so in the end, I just, I didn't feel like there was that compatibility there because it's something that would have, it would have affected our day to day life if we decided to get married.

Marissa, throughout the reunion that you guys started hooking up again, in what context did that start up again? Were you guys, you know, now that you're out of the love is blind bubble thinking, all right, like, maybe we're not gonna get married, but like, is there something there?

Do we give it a shot? Or did you guys just agree to be like, hey, you know, we might not be a match, but we love fucking, like, and then you just became hookup buddies? Like what was the context? And yeah, can you can you offer a little glimpse into that relationship? Yeah, so yeah, there wasn't any sort of like relationship or anything. It was so it's it's here's the thing. In this

experience, you you go zero to 100 very quickly, and you fall in love very quickly, you have these really genuine intense feelings for each other very quickly. And once something like this ends, those feelings don't go away, those desires, all of those things do not go away. And in the months that followed after the breakup,

I made myself available to Marissa in any capacity that she needed in terms of our conversation, in terms of helping Marissa just find the closure that she needed. This was a very heartbreaking, obviously everyone saw it, heartbreaking situation. She had a lot of questions that I wanted to provide clarity for. And so, yeah, we talked a lot, and there were occasions where she happened to be in DC and things went where they went. She would reach out and, yeah, but I also recognized very quickly too that was not healthy. That was a pretty toxic thing to do in light of just everything that's been going on, the breakup, you know, she deserves to move on,

I deserve to move on in a healthy manner, and you know, having sex after such an intense sort of experience was not the best decision. Yeah, it's definitely toxic, and you're two adults who made an adult decision, so you both play a role, but I'm sure you also recognize, looking back, that maybe in that moment, especially as you kind of

described, you were kind of the person who was a little bit more emotionally regulated and had moved on, where you were, like you said, were trying to offer Marissa closure, and that even if Marissa wanted to have sex in that moment, maybe the nicest thing for you to do in that moment would have been to reject the sex because that obviously can be very confusing and emotionally kind of gets people in a rabbit hole

and maybe that wasn't the nicest thing for you to do in that moment. Hey, listen, I agree 100%. In the moment, you're caught up in the emotions of everything and it's just kind of like, you make dumb decisions. I mean, I've done, I mean, I've been there. So like, you know, I've made your mistake. I recognize, I agree with you. I recognize that, you know, she was in this really vulnerable moment,

but we're both vulnerable. But in terms of, you know, moving on, that wasn't the best decision to make. And in a sense, it's sort of like, you know, kind of gives her false hope, you know? And I trust me, I get it, I understand it, and it was the wrong decision in that moment, for sure. Have you spoken to Marissa since the reunion regarding her behavior? Because she definitely gave you a little window of redemption because the reunion in her interview,

that like morning DC show, when she completely locked back her friendship with Hannah, was not the Marissa I fell in love with on Love is Blind. And I was like, girl, what the fuck, what are you doing? Because like, yeah, I mean, we had her on the show, she had the opportunity to let you off the hook, and she did not. I didn't feel like, I felt like she kind of

put your feet to the fire and her behavior at the reunion and in this interview that we saw kind of suggests to me that you know Marissa would be willing to do what she needed to do to look better post show. Can you either defend or I'm just curious your take on her behavior post. I was on her behavior. I was a little shocked. I was a little disappointed. Yeah. So the depictions you see of everyone obviously on something experienced like this, everyone is sort of flattened. It's this very reductive, you're turned into like a one dimensional sort of character. So I see why people would have fallen in love with

Marisa. I told her like people are gonna love your personality. No, she's not a terrible person, but that you're starting to see just a broader picture of who Marissa is. You're getting more context around who she is. Interestingly enough, we had conversations leading up to the reunion. There was like a few weeks there

where we were speaking almost every day where she was saying like, don't worry, I'm gonna defend you. I'm gonna be, I'm telling her like, don't worry, we'll take care defend you. I'm going to be, I'm telling her, don't worry, we'll take care of each other. I don't have any animosity towards you. She's saying she doesn't have any animosity towards me. And then the reunion happened

and it seemed like things just kind of split. And so, at the end of the day, I'm not concerned in getting involved in just all the social media, all the craziness and all of that. I'm a very low-key dude. I'm not concerned in getting involved in all of that drama surrounding all of this. I think Marissa, I definitely do think she switched up.

I do think that she led me to believe that she was kind of like on my side. And now she's doing, I've been reading all the interviews I've seen, you know, I saw her on speaking to you and it surprised me. But at the end of the day, you know, she's gonna say what it is that she wants to say and I can't control that. I can only speak, you know, from my perspective and provide, you know, my story from my side. So do you have any relationship with Marissa whatsoever right now or are you guys just kind of like have you moved on or would you describe yourself as friends, where are we at?

Yeah, at this point, yeah, there's no relationship at all. She texted me once maybe after the reunion a couple times, but it's gone, it went from just we were pretty friendly to now there's nothing there. And that's fine, you know? I really do want her to be able to move on. This is what's a lot for both of us. And I just, you know, wish her the best,

but yeah, there's nothing there between us at the moment. It appeared that she debuted her new relationship on Halloween. Did you know about this guy or did that take you by surprise? No, yeah, I was aware that she was dating someone. She'd been dating him for the last few months or since earlier in the year and I was aware of that.

So yeah, I'm happy for her. And if it's someone that can embrace her for who she is and she's happy, that's great. But yeah, it didn't catch me off guard. Your reunion. He seemed happy actually. He does, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's happy for it.

Your reunion outfit. I feel like you were kind of the cut in the eyebrows, the haircut. He just didn't know better. I think that's just. I liked it. No, no, no, he was like serving fashion for sure. It was just a little unlike the,

I'm giving like bad boy villain. Reputation. Exactly. It looked like you were leaning into your characters, so to speak. Yeah. I've heard that. And honestly, like I didn't really go in with that intention.

Like I just kind of pieced together the look. I just like, oh, I liked this. And we pieced it with these pants. I like these, the loafers, whatever. But yeah, once I did put it on, I was like, damn, this is giving like a little like villainy maybe or like a little, I don't know. And then once I started to see the remarks online, I was like, okay, I can see why people would think that. But no, I didn't go in trying to embrace the villain sort of art or whatever. It just happened to look that way, I guess.

Did you feel pressured, and I mean, and I would imagine why you would if your answer is yes, to hold Nick accountable in that kind of team up against him? Yeah, like stepping back from it, how do you feel about it all now? Honestly, this is an issue between Nick and Hannah and you know, I in the moment I did feel sort of pressure just because I felt like I was catching jabs left and right and just like I'm being pressured to like respond to this because I was present in the in the moment. And so but honestly, you know, that's that's something between Nick and Hannah. They're both grown ass adults.

They need to figure themselves out and whatever they have issues they have going on in terms what was in terms of what was said and wasn't said, that's between them. I don't have any sort of animosity against Nick or anything, but I don't know. At a general principle level, I always have been someone that likes to just hold myself accountable for just whatever shit that I may say or do that misses the mark or if I'm ever out of line, I have no problem taking responsibility for that. And so that's where that comment came from

at the end of the day. Part of it was, yeah, just kind of the pressure of the moment. But yeah, I'll leave it at that. I get what you're saying in the accountability part. It's just more felt like this was a clearly a conversation that Nick had what we thought was with friends off camera or off mic.

And I get that maybe he technically said something, but like we all know in the context of which it was being delivered that if Nick were to admit to calling Hannah a grenade or something like that, he potentially could have been eviscerated. And it just really felt like that's what Hannah and Marissa were trying to do, which felt really dirty given their motives.

And to me, and I think for the audience, it was less about whether Nick actually said that and then the manner of what was the intent behind here. Because it's like we all have the right to feel how we feel about our physical attraction to someone. We know we have a right not to be physically attracted. The whole point of the show is to look past your physical attraction and Nick decided to do the thing that you know what we all thought was the noble thing is to like just be nice regardless of how he actually felt

is certainly publicly and if you wanted to have a conversation with friends offline like we all are entitled to do that and then for that to be, it seemed like Stephen was the snitch, which was not shocking. It's like, well, I'm getting in catching heat. Let's just throw someone under the bus. It just, I don't know, it all came together in a very, what felt dirty way.

And I get what you were saying. I get where you're coming from in that moment. It's just like, I didn't agree with your take, but I kinda understand why you did what you were saying. I get where you're coming from in that moment. It's just like, I would have, you know, I didn't agree with your take, but I kind of understand why you did what you did in the moment. Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. Yeah, I can see obviously looking back how that moment, it was, yeah, they're pretty much dogpiling on Nick

and, you know, everyone was sort of taking jabs at him in the moment. And so yeah, I can see, you know, when it comes to like whatever bro code, whatever people want to sort of bring up. And so I get that perspective for sure. And I understand why he would be upset with me. But yeah, there's just so much that we see,

there's so much that we experience behind the scenes that the audience will never be privy to. And I think sort of a lot of my reasoning came from that. But yeah, I can see how that can be perceived that way, for sure. Did you have any nerves going into reunion knowing Marissa's mother would be there? Honestly, no.

This thing with Marissa's mother and just the way she, I guess, sort of spoke to me throughout this entire experience is something I was, sort of spoke to me throughout the just this entire experience. Is something I was already aware of just early on, Marissa sort of gave me a lot of insight on just how her mother communicates and how she, you know, she expresses herself. And so, yeah, there weren't any nerves around that in terms of me respond. I think at the end of the day, I just I'm not going to respond to the insults. I'm not going to respond to the, you to the threats of violence, all of that stuff.

I think personally that there is a way that you can communicate very directly and pointedly what it is that you wanna say without doing that. But at the end of the day, she's gonna say what she wants to say and I'm not gonna react to that, but I'll answer whatever questions that she had for me at that moment in the reunion. I absolutely liked you the most when you were around Marissa's mom. Because even whether it's like you being here, I think, like I said, you're a person who you think

and feel how you want, where we all make mistakes, but you are at least able to face your criticism head on and that does, to me, show something about your character. The last question I have I think is regarding some of the criticism you've received around your comments around Marissa's service. Which for me, I think our government has a lot to be criticized for, which I think Marissa pointed out.

It just came from a place where it didn't feel like you had the right to judge Marissa in that moment given what she did for this country. Do you to shed any light or context around those comments? Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so when it comes to politics and stuff like that, I just let the friend groups that I'm around, it's, it's, these are conversations we have like all the time and just, you know, just like very, you know, critical, not just of what happens here in the US, you just globally. And in that moment, coming into that conversation, I was honestly just trying to have a better understanding of where Marissa stood when

it came to the military and her service. We had talked a lot about it in the pods. And I felt in the pods was just as critical of what she experienced. And so this is her lived experience. And you can hear me say in the conversations, I don't want you to feel shame for your service and the time that you spent in the military. Obviously, this is something that has shaped your life, has shaped the person that you are. And so at the end of the day, we didn't land in the same camps in terms of our opinions about the military.

But in that moment, even when she felt, when she said, you know, I feel like I'm being judged, I immediately stopped the conversation. And like I held her hands and I told her like, look, I don't want you to feel like I'm shaming you trying to make you feel guilty for this. I understand I, my opinions are a lot more pointed than maybe most Americans. I know when it comes to the military, it's something that you just don't critique. It's sort of like the golden calf. You don't speak ill of it. You just sort of thank veterans and folks who've been in the military for their service,

and you sort of leave it at that. And so I understand why she felt like she was being judged in that moment. And that wasn't my intent going into it. But at the end of the day, I understand that what matters is impact versus intent. And so yeah, it's a complicated conversation. We were speaking there for probably over an hour.

And there's a lot of layers to it, a lot of nuance when you talk about politics, especially something like the military. So yeah, I mean, I just want to clarify that we were both very critical, although it may have come across as, he was just very pro military and I'm just like, fuck the military, which is, you know, that's, I think it's, they made it look like very sort of,

sort of like if we were on opposite ends of the spectrum. Okay, all right. Well, all of your castmates said, the second we met you, we would like you and to give you a second chance. So we do and we appreciate all the context you've given. We really appreciate it, Ramses. I think, yeah, if you're willing to face your critics

right or wrong and answer some questions, and especially, it's one of these things that, I don't know why people go on these shows, all different reasons, but I think we also have to accept the benefits and the consequences. And part of it is we will have people talk about us, you know, sometimes it feels unfairly. But I really, really appreciate you coming on and answering all our questions in the manner in which you did.

And it's been great getting to know you, the actual Ramses in person. So I really thank you for the opportunity. No, I appreciate the opportunity so much and just having given me an opportunity to speak on these topics that I know had people sort of just kind of jaw on the floor. So thank you. Thank you.

All right. All right, take care, buddy. Care. I got, you know, there's the answers that we could have gotten at the reunion, but we didn't. I mean, yeah. Which actually we just should be, I think we should just be, unless they're gonna hire us, babe, We could have gotten at the reunion, but we didn't Which actually we just should be I think we should just be unless they're gonna hire us babe We just we we actually should be rooting. No, you're right for Nick and Vanessa to keep their jobs

At least put you in the audience Someone who's better at their job. So then you know again unless they're gonna hire us I would just be like the whole time, I actually have a question, I have a question, can I ask a question the whole time if I were in the audience? Please. Yeah, and did we like his answers, not like his answers?

Yeah, well I think for the reunion, he added perspective to it where he said things like I would be exhausted and overwhelmed and it's like he gave context into that. That's more than just- The period sex offers a lot of context that he, especially the part where he recognized that this is clearly something that she was sensitive about

in past relationships. It is a sensitive topic. So I could see a world where he brought this up and then she went to a place of accusing him of doing something that maybe he didn't feel like he was doing, like being insensitive about her being on her period. And then obviously knowing how reality TV works, once the accusation is thrown out there, it's very much easy to cut around that other stuff.

It's a very specific thing to cut out though. Like the editor's chosen angle. They definitely did. And I think that's their job. That's their job. To make creative television. Yeah, because they have to deliver these types of conversations. They want everyone to pick sides,

so they have to make it. I mean, yeah, but sometimes it is a little shocking where it's just like the amount of context that was left out of that conversation that like instantly painted him as a villain come to find out that he like volunteered of a vasectomy and would look into that. Like it just would have given more layers

to a person versus just like you're bad or good. I am not doubting Ramses and his answers, but I think we also have to recognize that we all give ourselves the benefit of the doubt in terms of how we come across in an argument or a disagreement. And so I don't doubt for a second that after listening to Ramses speak

that he is aware of how a period affects a woman's body and how she might not wanna have sex. Or just like contraception and things like that. That being said, I could see a world in which, while he maybe didn't mean it, that he was maybe projecting a type of energy that Marissa received as judgemental or insensitive. And no one's necessarily wrong or right,

but I just think it's not as black and white in terms of like, oh, well, the editors are evil or things like that. I think they're just kind of, it's like their opinion. We got Ramses' POV, we got Marissa's POV, and then we have the editor's POV type of thing. And I think the truth's always somewhere in the middle. You know what I'm saying?

Like, I just think we, again, when we're in the heat of the moment, we are very unaware of how we come across. Like honestly, when Natalie and I go to couples therapy, part of couples therapy is having a therapist like looking at our body language when one of us is talking and the other person's listening. And our therapist is making sure that like,

we're receiving it the way they understand that we're giving it, but they understand that we're giving it, but knowing that it might be a triggering conversation, we shut down, we disconnect, and things like that. So I can see it on all sides. I wanted to know what the comment was that Nick D made. But he was like, it's between them to say what it was. And I was like, oh.

I believe that he said that. I believe he said the grenade comment. I believe he admitted to his boys that he wasn't physically attracted to her when asked. I think that's the, I think he was- Do you think he said that explicitly or he said something that alluded to that? I mean, I think grenade is a very-

It is. Very specific. It is a very specific word to use. I think they were all having a conversation. So dated. I was like, what is this, Jersey Shore? I think they were having a conversation. I think they were like, growing it up and they were asking each other's questions. I think they were being more honest, I think they were like, growing it up, and they were asking each other's questions. I think they were being more honest

than they otherwise would on camera, which we all do with our friends. And then that was weaponized against him. Again, Stephen brought it up because Stephen's catching heat. All these people who were throwing Nick under the bus were catching their own heat, and they all wanted Nick to catch the heat because everyone felt like Nick.

Because you can clear, like even Rams has kind of alluded to it. I think everyone's kind of pissed off that Nick was looking like this golden child when clearly Nick has his own flaws, like as they all do. Maybe he's a little douche baggy, maybe he's like incompetent as a 28 year old.

But that really isn't our point as fans. Our point as fans is like, I don't know, we see his flaws, you don't need to point it out. But like he's not an evil, vindictive guy and he doesn't deserve to be treated the way Hannah's treating him. And then the fact that after Hannah apologized and then Nick was like, tried to defend her,

she did all the things that she was accused of doing that she apologized for. And then all these other people are throwing him under the bus because they don't like catching the heat. They think it's unfair. They're just like, well, I might have a kink, but Nick is blah, blah, blah. You know what I'm saying?

They wanna play the fairness cops. Like Cass is just like deciding who's got it worse than others and we're gonna even the playing field. And that is the part that feels dirty. I don't think any of the fans are watching it, are putting Nick D up on this mantle of like, here's this perfect man. No one's thinking Nick is perfect. No one.

We just don't think Nick deserves to be the scapegoat for all these other people's mistakes. And that's why people love him now. It says he's like the martyr. Yeah, because everyone tried to scapegoat this guy who, you know, he may have his flaws, but he's not problematic. Actually, Drew, because that's the thing too,

is that it's like, the whole thing is we have sympathy for Nick, not because he had an outstanding personality, it's because we sat here and watched him get berated the entire show that you're just like, okay, at some point, nobody deserves to be spoken to like this at some point. I think it's also like, there was so much time

in which Hannah could have had this conversation with Nick But she waited until reunion for national television to like deliver this like You were liking comments and you called me this and you called me that and it's like you Wanted all the hate that you have been receiving for being direct and for being whatever and whatever to go to him and for him To start getting hate like that was what she wanted and that intent is gross. And say what you want about Nick. As flawed as he may be, every step of the way, he always took the high road.

And I think what everyone is criticizing everyone else for is like when they felt like it could benefit them, they didn't. Everyone else took the low road, everyone else did a dig, and Nick always took the high road. And that says something about Nick and his character. You know? All right, Salt Lake City. Helix Sleep.

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What did I say? You've been one for words. You said electric city in Salt Lake. I got so much in my head. The electric city of Salt Lake, let's go. Real quick too, did you see Teddy Mellencamp is getting a divorce? And we've hung out with both of them, her,

what's her husband's name? Eddie. Eddie, her and Eddie, you know. I haven't, we haven't hung out with the both of them her Eddie Eddie her and Eddie they you know I haven't said I haven't we haven't hung out with them in a minute, but sad Especially when you know the couple in person do they seem like a happy couple I guess you never know I mean I mean, yeah, they didn't we weren't like You know we were just like coming yeah Like oh they fucking hate each other typical couple One of you just slides over 20 being like,

all right, it was before Christmas. Yeah. Do you ever do that when you see couples? Yeah. But not Teddy and husband? Oh yeah. No, it's like the couples who clearly hate each other. And you're like, all right,

that was like awkward to be around. You're in a dinner of like eight people and two of you made it very uncomfortable for everyone else, we know. Yeah, it's like we're arguing. Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf? Yeah. Yeah, it's like you're mad at him

because he passed you the water like over the bread and not around the bread. And it's like, ma'am, that didn't feel like we needed to. This I loved watching the husbands try to have a meetup, but not know what the fuck to do. John is like, all right, how do we start this do John is like all right how do we yeah how do we start this John's like I think we need that we need these potato potatoes yeah first do we think the fight was necessary was one of the

husband's first we have to talk about the parallel parking Oh my god. That was evil. No, that was evil and twisted. And to make us guess who's in the car. I thought it was going to be us and it's John and Barlow. Yeah. This might be a little misogynist of me in sexist for me to say, but I think less of him as a man.

Yeah. You can't even start any credits like that. Because of what we've done. You can keep that in there. You can keep that in there. Here's the thing. They don't make you parallel park anymore for the driver's test in California. They don't? They don't. They should. But he's that in there. Here's the thing. They don't make you parallel park anymore for like the driver's test in California.

They don't. They don't. But he's not in California. He's in Salt Lake City. That's the only way you have to park in California. In LA, specifically. I think it's just very obvious who typically has a driver and who doesn't.

Yeah. Oh, well, yeah, there you go. There you go. That man is not, you know what I mean? Wait, on Justin's thing, now I'm like gonna be checking the front of my car all the time, cause I feel like someone's gonna be backing in and be like, just got my light in.

Sometimes in LA I do that, I take a photo of my car if the car's too close or if they parked over the line, I'm like, just in case. Wow. Like it's been a while. Just sometimes in case I need it. In case I need it. Being able to parallel park while it's taught.

I could park a parking train. I agree. I could parallel park a boat for sure. If you're a mother, you can park parallel. The fight, period. The fight between all of them, John, 100% overstepped. Them showing back the footage,

I was like, he's like, when you step towards my wife, it's like, Lisa was walking away. And he was rocking back and forth like a nervous Nellie. Lisa got in Justin's face and Justin is messy. He was walking away. And he was rocking back and forth like a nervous Nellie. Lisa got in Justin's face and Justin is messy. Lisa also said the second time, John, no, John, John, not necessary.

Justin was moving. But also like- Not in anyone's direction. He like defending his wife. Like you're coming up yelling in the middle of a party. So everybody's looking at you and you're like, your wife is a fucking liar, how do you? Of course he's gonna be like, my wife's not a fucking liar. That's the most aggressive he party. But not even that. So everybody's looking at you and you're like, your wife is a fucking liar. How do you?

Of course he's going to be like, my wife's not a fucking liar. That's the most aggressive he was. Of course. Also the step he took was sassy, not aggressive. I think what he did, he said, don't talk about my wife. It wasn't even a step. He was literally like rocking back and forth. He was like, come on.

Holding a drink, yeah. Yeah. I mean to John's point, if someone's going to step towards your wife, you're going to do something, right? For sure. You're not going to stand there and be like, that's nothing. a drink, yeah. Yeah. You can't even. I mean, to Jon's point, if someone's gonna step towards your wife, you're gonna do something, right? For sure. You're not gonna just stand there and be like, that's nothing, he's just defending his wife. But when your wife is Lisa Barlow.

She can defend herself. But it just speaks to how much Lisa is a bully, and even with her husband is a bully, and lies to her. I mean, yeah, he's just repeating Lisa's narrative of events. And now he looks like an idiot for trying to defend his wife's honor because his wife is accusing Whitney's husband, like repeating Lisa's narrative of events. And now he looks like an idiot for like, trying to defend his wife's honor

because his wife is accusing Whitney's husband, Justin, of like, listen, it's 2024. You shouldn't be accusing men of being physically inappropriate to women if they're not. Like that's an egregious accusation to make against someone in today's climate. He wasn't accusing though. But even to Whitney's point. He was just prepared if that was the. He wasn't accusing though. But even to Whitney's point.

He was just prepared if that was the case. Lisa was? Yeah. But even to Whitney's point is that they've gotten into many fights and usually the men are off somewhere else talking about God knows what. And the idea that you're bringing somebody's husband involved in it, where I'm like handle it between

the two of you, but when you're going up to Justin yelling at him in the middle of a party about his wife and questioning her integrity, of course it's gonna be upsetting. And then the after show, Lisa was like, my husband would never talk to a woman like that. Again, she is disparaging Justin's character as a man and then suggesting that he doesn't know

how to handle himself or he's aggressive around women when he was anything but in this situation and exaggerating a narrative to her benefit because anytime Lisa feels cornered in a box, she, I mean, she's vicious. She attacks, she accuses, she makes up stories. It is dirty. Well, and Mary said on the after show,

why does she even need six, seven lawyers? Truly. Literally. It's because she's trying to cover things up. But even the second go-around, Justin's leaned back against a table, essentially. He is not aggressive at all. Then John comes in and puts his hands on Justin, where I'm like, again, what did you think was going to happen? And again, you're also putting this idea that Justin was, what, going to come out and just

knock Lisa out? That's not true. Yeah, that's not going to happen. Justin was giving just slightly intoxicated, like wobbling back a little bit. He was giving housewife. Housewife, yeah. He's on, like one thing I'll say about Justin, that man is on the call sheet.

And I mean that as the highest compliment. He is clocked in. He is pouring out that Vita tequila like nobody's business. He's calling Jared to the party. Yeah. He's doing the like. Messy, he's so messy. He's a housewife.

He's a housewife. He was doing too much pouring out. As a supportive husband. For sure. That is making sure your wife gets recast. Not the jerk. Literally. Okay, maybe. The Jared Osmond wasn't supporting Whitney.

He was throwing the fire. Yeah, he was. Whitney said, hey, I need you to make a call. Justin said, I got you. He did his job. I like to think that Justin called or texted Jared Osmond on his own accord. He was just like, I think this would be funny. Yeah, I feel like that's how it went.

I don't feel like Whitney was involved. I think it was definitely a Justin thing. I think Justin can grow up. Justin is a little petty, because when he poured out the alcohol, I was like, girl. Between any of the couples, I'm hanging out with Justin and Whitney for sure. Like they can gab, they can queen.

I kind of want to hang out with Mary. Yeah. Mary for sure, but like. Be prepared to be read. And I want to be. I'm begging Mary to read. She did, when she met Natalie, when Natalie was eight months pregnant. She read your baby, she read River.

She's like, you're having a boy. I was like, it's a girl. How do you think Mary feels about Margot Robbie? She like started the internet war. Also, Bronwyn, love. Icon, legend, girl boss. What's with all the shit all over her house? So now you love her.

Well. I'm watching the show. It almost feels like Justin and I have been team Bronwyn. No, no, no, Justin, it was more of like a love ya, what's with all the shit. Okay. You know, it's like love you, Justin. Yeah.

I was like. What's with all the shit? Well, Bronwyn's like, love you, Justin. Yeah. I was like, what's with all the shit? Well, Browyn's obviously, she's new to the show, just like Brittany. And so we're kind of what, with six, seven episodes in, we're just kind of like, you know, how do we feel? We're going back and forth. Anytime someone's new, we want to judge,

we want to pick them apart. And literally early on this episode, I was thinking to myself, Browyn, you know, she seems like a good character person. Yeah, she's got her wardrobe. Airport costumes. But even like, you know, I wouldn't dress like that, but like, you know, and, but it's

just like, man, she seems like a, I can't really find a real bad character flaw in Broin. And then literally 30 seconds later, it's like shit all over her house. Okay. But like, what I will say is I'm sure that house is fucking massive and I'm like that woman can- You're trying to defend this? I am, I will defend this. Yeah when was the last time- do you think Bronwyn cleans her own house? No.

Also- She can pick up dog shit. Do you think Bronwyn- when was the last time you think Bronwyn- She's got 20- No you're probably right. She has 20- She has 20- I get what you're saying.

What are those dogs? Boxers. Boxers. I get what you're saying but what I'm saying is Boxers, again, once again, we need to point out all named after House of Cards. House of Cards. The Kevin Spacey film. She has four boxers.

She's not following them around to see where they poop. No, no, no, but she is giving Heather a tour and if she's giving Heather a tour and Heather is noticing them, she could be like, oh my God, excuse the chef. That could have been a fresh poop. That could have been, we were in the kitchen and then they did it.

No, she didn't tell her that they found it. The fact that she had company with cameras coming over and she didn't like think to look says something about how she feels about the shit. There are one or two possibilities, Justin. One of the cameramen shooting it and not telling her is also a thing. There are one or two possibilities. Either Browen's just filthy and I don't believe that.

Or she's just like, I don't pick up dog shit. I think that's it. Which is fine. But if you don't, and I'm very much team Brawin over Heather, which Naila is not, but if you don't wanna be accused of being a gold digger, be willing to pick up your dog. Okay, that's not the same thing. That's not the same thing.

Literally not the same thing. I've been married to a man for like 20 years. No, no, no, no, wait, wait, wait. People that don't pick up poop and they're not gold diggers. She bought an art installation for like $40,000. How can you say she doesn't pick up dog shit? The perception is reality.

It just like, it perceives as this like, I'm just here to be, to shop. Like all we hear, I'm just saying it doesn't, it gives people a window to criticize. I'm sorry, pick up the, if I came home, Natalie doesn't pick up dog poop, I pick up the dog poop. Outside, it's my job. We've decided.

It's outside. But what we're talking is like. But if the dog shit in the house, Natalie, and I walked home and I was like dog shit four hours ago I we would have I would have a good time with that for sure But what I'm saying is that like Bronwyn is like a level of wealth that matches the old New York housewives Like it's like she is aloof. She is somebody who like could probably look at a car from that. She's not Rags to riches. Oh, yeah, you don't think

Wow, she's like I like, I'm too good. Once you marry it, like I'm sorry, I'm gonna die on the hill for Bronwyn. I do think that. I love Bronwyn. I do too, I'm just saying. I think they set her up. I don't think she knew the shit was there.

But also, I would understand. I do think that. I think they set her up. I think they set her up. They set my girl up. You think so? Do you think the dog gets shit? No.

Here's the thing, if you're a producer, they might have. Heather is a producer fucking pet for sure. They had that 4k close up angle on that poop. I was like, one of y'all knew this was coming. Is there a chance that Bronwyn's watching this episode being like... No, no, no. There is. There is.

There's definitely a chance. There's no way that Heather saw it and Bronwyn did it. No, no, I think the producers did it. No, but they could be, baby, think about it. They could be, these scenes take a moment, right? It's not like Heather just shows up, like they were all, Heather's probably waiting outside, talking to producers for a while.

They were there for hours. Producers said, guess what? There's dog shit in there, let's go, bro. Heather and Bronwyn could have been talking, dog shits, like while they're talking, and they're like, yeah, they could have been like, dog shits while they're talking, and they're like, yeah, they could have been like, get a camera on this right now. Then they go interview Heather, producer pet,

and be like, it's possible. I don't know, I'm not saying it happened, but it's definitely possible. Logistically, I'm just saying it's possible. I'm just telling you what is, I just know how this shit works, and I don't know if it happened, but it is possible. But also, if Bronwyn does not pick up dog shit,

why was there not another single person in that house? There was not a housekeeper, there was not a maid. The dog shitting how many times a day? And there's no one else in the house? Maybe the housekeeper was coming later? I mean, that we saw on camera, yeah. I think it was decor. Come on.

You think it's decor? That shit was actually $20,000. I think that, yeah, I think it was decor. Come on. You think it's decor? That shit was actually $20,000. I think it was $20,000. And she has it sitting there and it's decor. Only her and Rihanna have this shit. Rihanna would never. It just was on a runway in Paris. We didn't train the dog to poop outside.

Right, we don't have like the most highest in trainers in the world to train. Boxers are known to be naughty, naughty dogs. And so the fact that like Amit, she has a puppy, naughty. The fact that she has a puppy boxer and she's not like, I, sorry, like he's in training. Like there's, you know. She needs the bell on the door where you train the dog to ring the bell when you need to go out. I don't know.

I do love how Brawn read Heather in terms of I'm watching this and it's just like, you know, I said, obviously I've said over the, you know, this season, why does Heather always seem to be willing to be someone's number two so hard? It's like, it just doesn't, it doesn't make sense. I'm trying to figure out what, like, what is Heather's backstory in terms of like, the psychological reason that Heather is the way she is. Because like, as a person, I wanna like Heather so much.

She's so like articulate, she makes good points, she's clearly very smart, observational. I wanna ride for Heather, but I hate how she is always putting herself in a position to be a follower. It's like she doesn't have the confidence to be a leader. In a world of main character syndrome, it's like Heather doesn't know how to be the main character. And then you hear Robin talking about her high school photo

where Heather always wanted to be in the end. Angie. It was Angie Kaye. school photo where like, Heather always wanted to be in the- Angie. Angie. It was Angie Kay. Angie, it was Angie, yeah. Yeah. And she always wanted to be in the in-group, and it's just like, yeah, Heather clearly, it's like Heather grew up idolizing the Regina Georges

in high school. She wanted to be in the in-group so fucking bad, and like- She was a piano kid. And that has stuck with her in her adult life, and it's so fascinating, the psychology of Heather. And this is why, when you would ask me like, why I don't like Heather, why I don't like Heather, I couldn't properly articulate it without you seeing it.

But it's kind of that. It's like, you want so badly to be the shining star under your number one being the number two, that it's like everything that you said last season now all of a sudden cancels out because now you're following Lisa instead of Jed. And then not Heather being called out by Angie for defending Lisa and then being offended

for her friendship with Jen Shaw. And it's like, she goes, yeah, I mean, I have a cloudy past of like over like defending my friends, the church, blah, blah, blah, but this time, this time I'm right. You're right because you're defending the bully of the group, Lisa Barlow, who like makes up stories and lies about people when she gets put in her corner.

But like this time, you're right, Heather. And you have no reason for us to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you're so sure this time. Yep, yep. Huh? She wants Angie to have her back with Bronwyn, but at the same time is like shocked that Bronwyn's questioning her

because she wants to be hazing her because you're the new girl, these are my friends. And it's like, you're all in the same cast. I think Heather is like shocked that Bronwyn's questioning her because she wants to be hazing her because you're the new girl. These are my friends. And it's like you're all in the same cast. I think Heather is like the perfect example of somebody who is self-aware. And because they're self-aware, they don't have to change any of their. Heather. Yeah, because she knows that that's exactly what she does. And she'll say and that's why her that's why you're talking. And they're always like, great, because you're like, oh, Heather is completely aware

of like what her role is and who she is and the reason she's saying all these things, and then you see her on camera, and it doesn't make any sense because she's aware of it, she just chooses not to do anything about it. What did she call herself? She said she's, I'm what binds this group together, and it was just like, Heather, honey,

you're tearing everybody apart. And why are you on Heather's side from that fight? Is it because she gave a bad apology? Which she did. Well, that, but also I just like, I just can see Heather's side of it, where she's like, at the end of the conversation, Bronwyn's like, well, you know,

I was just trying to plan this party, or this trip, and like, you're not gonna, and she's like, so this was an initiation? This was me like trying to plead my case to come on your trip? I think Bronwyn ate, but I will say, if I was in Heather's position, I's like, so this was an initiation, this was me trying to plead my case to come on your trip? I think Brawn ate, but I will say, if I was in Heather's position, I'm like, so this was a setup? Literally.

I don't need to be sitting here, bye. I have to disagree with that. I think it's the opposite, I think it's a projection of Heather. I think Heather is very much like, Brawn's the new kid, and she is initiating Brawn into her show, and she's just kind of mean girl-ing. Of course, yes, it wasn't the best apology from Brawn,

but Heather's out there perpetuating this stereotype about the prenup and her being a gold digger. And so yeah. That wasn't really, that was Brittany. Either way, they're arguing over semantics and Brawn is kind of like, hey, I'll apologize for doing my part, but apologize for doing yours.

And Heather's just like, no. Heather's like, I'll apologize for being, doing my part, but like, apologize for doing yours. And Heather's just like, no. Heather's like, I'll apologize after you give me an actual apology. She's like, well, I guess I can, like at times. She said, I can sometimes be messy. I think Bronwyn very correctly owned up and she was like, you want me to call it messy? It was messy.

But that's so genuine. She's like, you're only saying that because that's what you would. If this is what Heather wanted though, it's like that's the projection of what Heather wanted to see where Bronwyn was like, listen, I'm gonna what you want. If this is what Heather wanted though, it's like the projection of what Heather wanted to see where Bronwyn was like, listen, I'm gonna invite you over. Hopefully we can sit down and have a nice conversation,

take accountability, and then I'll invite you on this trip. And then Heather's like, well, I'm gonna help you. Heather went to judge her apology. Heather went to like, does Bronwyn deserve to be in our group or not? That's what she gave. Heather just wants to be in a position where she can have power over someone else

and Bronwyn and Brittany are like the new people that she is able to be this head mean girl to. Yes. Where she can still be Lisa's number two because Lisa would never, ever, ever let her have power over her. I have two thoughts. Okay, I love Bronwyn, but saying I can apologize

is not an apology. No, it was a bad apology. She never once said I apologize or I'm sorry. She said I can apologize for that, which is not. That being said, if you're implying I'm a gold digger, I'm not gonna throw you on my private jet that my daddy's paying for. 1000%. And send you to our resort.

Hot father? Daddy. Daddy. You know? No. I'm like, so you can leave. But not if we're paying for it. Zaddy Pompilot. Zaddy Pompilot. It's getting harder and harder to watch Brittany

on this show. Oh my God, it really is. I kinda like her. But even then, also just to tie a little knot on that with Heather, where I'm like, Heather definitely says that she can say whatever she wants to say to Brittany. And Brittany's like, well, that hurts my feelings. She goes, yeah, I guess it would.

But I'm sorry that it hurt your feelings. Like again, Heather doesn't have to be genuine when she's talking to Brittany because Brittany's below her. Exactly. She sees Bronwyn as like fighting against her or competing for status where it's like Bronwyn doesn't have to compete, that's the difference

between the two of you. I mean, after Angie said that about Heather, I understand and see Heather for who she is so clearly. She can't get out of high school. Thank you. Like she's still in high school and she operates just like a click in high school operates and she initiates new people into this group.

From what we can see from the show. Oh yeah, her character on TV. Her character on TV. Her character on TV. But we do not know her. And if you were a nice girl, then I'm like seeing somebody who clearly is a little more, needs a little more kitty gloves with handling. Like you're not gonna expose her in a way that you know is just gonna leave her broken,

and this poor Brittany woman is fucking broken. Brittany needs to be. Heather being like, I've been there, and Brittany's like, well what happened? She's like, it fucked up my entire life. Brittany needs hard love. She needs, you are going to ruin your life if this is the man you continue chasing,

and I don't think Heather needs to apologize for being like. The after show kind of gave that Brittany was still open to a relationship too. But that's what's crazy, it's a slice of the pie. I know it's like, you know, criticizing parenting is a very sensitive topic, but like let's just keep it fucking real for a second. Like if you can go on a national television show

and admit that you have sacrificed your relationship with your three kids for a person who over and over and over and over again is so clearly clear about how they think about you and treat you. And you continue to give that person more of a priority and attention than your own children. It's like, that is a choice, you know, and it's, it's hard to defend that choice. And also it's just like, what's interesting about Brittany's narrative is

like, she talks as if she's never found love. And I don't doubt that she, like, clearly she's single now and whatever age that she's at. So clearly she hasn't found the love that's like never failed. That's, you know, which we, all of us only get one of those, but like she has three kids. And it's just like, I guess my point is like, sometimes we always talk about on the show, like your, your life is just a matter of your own perspective and how you look at it. And Brittany has this kind of like, I've never found like, she centers her love above everything in her life, even her own children, right? And which is kind of crazy. Like, Nally's mom is very

open. She wants to go on the Bachelorette. Nally's mom also like has had some tough luck when it comes to relationships and love throughout her life. She is currently single. She hasn't found that relationship that has never failed. But Nellie's mom makes it very clear who comes first in her life, and that is her kids. And it's like her grandkids and things like that. And yeah, she still wants to find love and she still goes out

and she still prioritizes herself at times. But the way Brittany does it is, is, you know, it's, it's hard to defend. It's, it's, it's, it gives, I'm sorry. Like you can judge someone for their parenting choices. Like you're, you're not a good parent. Just be, you know, like, and I think sometimes, especially the, the people who have a lot of money, you know, who are very good at being sometimes self-centered and centering their needs above anyone else's.

And sometimes we just like, what do we do to win back affection of our kids or loved ones? We give them what they want or we buy them trips and we throw money or gifts at them and things like that. And that's not always good parenting. And again, I'm just using Brittany's words of admitting that she has sacrificed her relationship with her kids for a man, a man who continues to do that.

And at some point it is on you, the parent, till you have to look in the mirror and question your choices and your relationship with your kids. I don't know how else to look at it. I know it might sound harsh, but fuck. I do think in some conversations we've had that Brittany does deserve grace,

but in this instance that you're saying it, I do think she, some of her values and priorities are in the wrong place, because even in the after show, she was saying how she goes on multiple dates in one night and how she has a spreadsheet, and her spreadsheet is a serious thing she does where she updates it.

It's like, girl, take a break. When I'm just like, maybe- Take your kids on a trip. Or maybe just date and not catalog everything and then spend some time with your kids in the process. She also says that in the aftership. Then she also talks about romanticizing her parents' marriage.

They met for six days, got married, and then were together for 50 years until the mom passed. So she wants that kind of love herself. But I'm like, somebody else's love story is not yours. Brandy cares way too much about the appearance of things and the story. What's Mormonism? Maybe so, yeah.

I mean, sure, yeah. But like when she was singing, and she was playing the conductor. Yeah. Like, look. She used to be like a singer. Have you seen this? I don't doubt that she was.

She's posting like videos. She was on Broadway. She was on stages in front of like. But she doesn't need to be conducting a group of friends singing a song. But she's the one hosting the family. I'm just saying it gives, it just gives appearances matter in that moment.

Yeah. I wish we knew more about Britney's background. I know, I wanna know more about Britney, not about Jared. Like, I just don't care about Jared. Like, if we were getting siloed into this storyline, there's probably more for her to offer. Yeah.

But just side note, I just love- She needs to offer it. I just loved when Angie brought the bottle of wine. Like, I was just like, well I saw you slugging it down. I didn't know that this was not the occasion. Angie's got some- Angie's so inappropriate.

It's the woman that you are. Babe, you literally, you're constantly chugging wine. She's also a great non-Mormon, so good for the past. Well, Brittany and Jen, very similar, Jen from OC. Yeah, they do remind me of each other. Which I also forgot, and we'll get into it with Emily as she's coming up next. Just like Salt Lake City where I'm watching this episode

in the middle of this episode of Salt Lake City, I'm like, I can't find a flaw in bra, went in and shit over the floor. Like Jen, I'm watching it, we've been highly critical of Ryan, and it's just like he seems very shady and I'm halfway through, I'm thinking to myself, you know what, fuck it, man if Jen's happy, let her be happy kind of thing.

But I kind of forgot the backstory of Jen and Ryan, how she like blew up her entire family and left her marriage and her kids for this guy who had a reputation of sleeping with married women. And then the finale of OC ends with the arrest. It was fun. I met someone this weekend and he looked like Ryan and I was like, hmm.

He's like, what are you hiding? I just like, yeah, it's just like, it's, you're making choices in adult life. They wanna welcome love, but they're like choosing the wrong love. Well, you know, we all like but they're choosing the wrong love. Well, we all want love, but again, sometimes when you get so obsessed

with how things aren't working out for you, you alienate some of the people that you should be protecting and closest to you. And it's just like. The one thing I'll say about that is that it's ignoring red flags, even with Jared and Brittany, but also if you don't know what your significant other does for a living, or how they attain their wealth.

Sunshine is not a good enough answer. Yeah, I was about to say, the fact that that has never been a question to Jen of like, Ryan's like, oh, I've been in, what was it? He was on Watch What Happens Live, and Annie Cohn is like, well, Brian, what do you do? And he's like, I've been in real estate mortgages, whatever, for the last 20 years,

or whatever the fuck he said. Why wasn't Andy then like, well, Jen, then why didn't you say that whenever they were at, they asked you what- Something inside of her might have known or assumed. Yeah, it's like, instead you were like, he likes to play in the sunshine. You could have been like, oh,

he's in real estate mortgage brokerage, whatever. Everybody's in real estate. Or he's retired, like,, like, I don't know. I think with Jen and Brittany, again, we've all been them, but we were 21, you know, or 25, or 20. At some point, we learned. At some point in life, even if we had made the same mistake over and over a few times, we learned.

And here you have Brittany and Jen in their 50s making these mistakes that are like, again, don't just affect them. Affect so many people around them. But to a degree that's bound to happen because they're kind of an example of the times, right? What do you mean? Of women that were kind of raised to just be kind of subservient

and protect the family regardless of their own needs. So they put that before themselves and then now they're in a relationship needs. So they put that before themselves and then now they're in a relationship where, or they're not in a relationship that they chose themselves and they don't know how to. It's hard for me to look at Jen and Brittany and think these are two women

who always put others before them and now they're not. I just don't see that. I feel like it's more the, they were raised with the idea that they had to put others before them and it's just a reactionary selfishness because of the way they were raised, more than that, you know what I mean?

I'm like others before or like prioritizing marriage and a man, because he's gonna take care of everything. I think that's more of what it is and then it's like, oh, well I have to prioritize finding my man. Exactly. I just think if you were raised to always prioritize others before you, specifically when it comes to Brittany. You don't openly admit how you lost your relationship

with your own kids for a fuckboy. Don't Mormons believe that women won't go to heaven if they're not married? Like, there's like weird things that are tied along with their religion too, to where it's like. That's been implied on Salt Lake City before. Yeah, but again, Brittany, how Mormon are you? Are you drink, you're not, you don't drink?

I mean, again, I get it, but at some point, you can't blame your religion or your parents or your upbringing. At some point, you have to just look in the mirror and say, what kind of person do I wanna be? And you can use excuses of how you were raised or religion you were brought up in, or you can just like, again,

cause Brittany Clinton knows better. You know what I'm saying? If you can admit to have lost touch with your kids over a man, then you know better. That part is hard to comment on though, because you don't know enough about our kids. Like what does that mean, lost touch? It's always great seeing somebody's first season

on one of these shows and then seeing them come back for the second season, because a lot of them are not self-aware. So when they finally watch like how they, how the things that they've said and like the things that they're willing to die on They come back second season being like actually okay. I'm ready to speak. Yeah Yeah, I feel like Brittany is gonna come back next season

I hope they bring her back I do too and I think she's gonna come back next season with a very different outlook I mean she would be easier route for if she like starts making healthier choices Yeah, cuz you want to see like again Jen you want to root for if she like starts making healthier choices. Yeah. Because you want to see like again, Jen, you want to root for, you know, but when you are reminded of their choices, it is, it's, I don't know, for me, it's tough to get behind. Let's bring in Emily, who's going to walk us through some of these legal things going on with Ryan. When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops. So on behalf of Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

So on behalf of Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you! Home and auto insurance personalized to your needs! Weird, I don't remember saying that part. Visit Desjardins.com slash care and get insurance that's really big on care. Did I mention that we care? Hey, Emily. Hey, Gene. Good to see you.

How's it going? It's good. It's busy, but it's good. Well, we were watching the finale of OC last night and obviously they picked up the cameras back up because Ryan's friend got arrested and it was this whole thing and I'm like, I need to call Emily. We need to get her on the show because obviously there's just a lot of speculation going on

with Ryan, his friend, there was this hot mic moment of him joking, not so joking, about having a money launderer which I thought to myself, is that like, did he just admit to a crime right there because isn't that illegal? Like laundering in general? I don't know. I had a lot of questions, so I was like,

we gotta get our legal expert, Emily Baker, on the show to get her insight. How you doing, Emily? I'm good, happy to be here. I saw your text and I'm like, I love you guys, record on Mondays, because Mondays is literally my most available day of the week.

So I was like, this is perfect. I want to talk about OC2. I, you know how much I love reality TV, and I went through all the court documents because, of course, I'm curious, and it's all in court documents. And I also grew up in LA, so also a Dodgers fan, and with all of this interwinding into the Shohei scandal, I was just like, ooh, I want to look at all of it.

BOWEN Well, we love that you did that and we appreciate it. So what did you find? Well, as we were going through court documents, it's clear that Ryan's friend knew that this was coming down the pike because of what was going on with the interpreter. And they both would have known that the feds were closing in

because the information came down and there was a plea deal on file that was signed before the information was filed. So this would have gone down with the feds being like, hey, we would like to talk to you and him being like, hey, I would like to tell you everything, please give me a plea. So it looks like that plea was negotiated before the information even came out. And that was signed in the in late May. So that he knew he was taking a plea deal before anyone even knew that he was wrapped into part of this. So I imagine, I don't know when that final

episode aired, I don't know when they were recording OC, you guys probably do better than I do, but as of May, the friend knew he was taking a plea deal and knew that this was going to become public at some point because they're filed publicly. And his name was going to be connected to the interpreter for the Dodger who had been gambling. Not the Dodger, the interpreter. The interpreter was arrested. The interpreter pled guilty as well, will be sentenced in December. Ryan's friend, Matthew, will be sentenced in December. The Ryan's friend, Matthew, will be sentenced in February, but he also has to pay back over a million dollars in taxes. There's restitution.

He's facing prison time, but it's a first offense. And he pled guilty to bookmaking, which being a bookie, which you can't do, to money laundering and to tax fraud. But in the bookkeeping, he also said that there were at least five people operating this business with him. And it looked like they were operating out of one and maybe more casinos where they were bringing casino hosts in to help them funnel clients, that they were, the people involved in the business were gambling regularly at these casinos to drum up business. They were regularly in Vegas and the money laundering count is about moving

money from the bookkeeping business in OC into casinos in Nevada. So when the ladies on OC are talking about the fact that Ryan's always flying private jets out to Vegas, I'm like, well, this guilty plea talks about what he was doing in Vegas, which was sports booking and drumming up clients, but you can't sports book in California, it's illegal. That's why the feds went after this. But it seemed that the feds were keying in on what the casinos were doing,

and then followed kind of the trails out from what was stemming in the casino, and then following out the investigation from there. Is it possible that Ryan could be guilty of being linked to his friend and being involved in his friend's nefarious activities and then like the feds is deciding he's not big enough of a fish to like involve or if he's guilty, they would definitely follow through with, with charges. Like what, what assumptions can we make?

So he got an immunity deal. They talked about it on the show. They've talked about it in numerous news articles. Yes. They also filmed the finale in April for context. So this all went down before that plea deal. Thank you. This all went down before that plea deal was signed

as these conversations are happening. I worked at the US attorney's office before I graduated from law school. Nothing moves quickly. When they say law graduated from law school. Nothing moves quickly. When they say law and government moves slow, nothing moves quickly. But they would go out and have all these conversations with individuals, including Ryan, to figure out if he's going to be a target or a witness or both. You don't give an immunity deal if somebody doesn't know anything.

And if somebody is a witness, they don't need immunity because they weren't involved. You get immunity so that you don't get prosecuted when you tell people what you know and what you know also involves your illegal activity. If you see a car accident on the street and you stop and go, Hey, this person didn't stop at the red light. Nobody needs to give you immunity. You saw what you saw. So the fact that he has an immunity deal for this indicates that he was involved enough that his lawyers said, if we tell you what we know, you could prosecute us for it,

and we're not going to do that. How much he was involved is unknown, but we know that people were helping get clients at the casinos. We know that people were moving money in and out of the bank accounts they were using. We know that they've moving money in and out of the bank accounts they were using. We know that they've been friends, Ryan and Matthew, for over 20 years. We know that Ryan helped bail Matthew out of a 2011 bankruptcy. They are not unfamiliar with each other's business dealings

based on court records. Is Ryan named in any of these court records? No. Are other individuals stated as other individuals? Yes, the only one we know that has an immunity deal is Ryan because of the TV show. But like you said, but him having an immunity deal means that like he's guilty of something, right?

He knows enough shit that he could be prosecuted. So there's enough there that he could be prosecuted for it. And that's more than nothing. I hate to be all lawyerly about it. You know, more than he's letting on. I mean, they took hundreds of thousands of dollars out of his buddy's house when they raided the house and poker chips. And those have all been now forfeited to the government. There were multiple bank accounts that were in the names of other individuals. Was this stuff moving through Ryan's bank account? That's not what court records say. Do we know that Ryan was going to the casino with him on

the regular while he is running a bookie business out of California where it's illegal? Yeah, we know that he was doing that and he doesn't seem to shy away from it and then was making light of all of it. Who knows if that immunity deal or conversation happened before he's making a joke about all of this or not. So much of obviously our commentary around the show is around, specifically with the situation with Jen, it's like what does she know or not know? I don't think anyone thinks that she's involved,

but it's more like how in denial has Jen been about her partner? And I'm curious, in your extensive experience, I'm assuming you've dealt with a lot of spouses, some of which may have been connected with their criminal partner and some who are just kind of like just completely in the blind and had no idea.

But just as a fan and as someone who has an expert opinion on this type of topic, how do you read the situation with Jen and does it remind you of situations you've seen in the past in your career? I mean, just to go to reality TV, I'm gonna give Jen kind of the same evaluation that I give like an Erica Girardi.

How much do they know about what the person who's bringing in the bulk of the money is doing and how much is willful ignorance? Like the bills are paid, I don't care. He doesn't seem to go to an office, but maybe money's fake on the internet, so who knows? I know my spouse knows how much I work because he sees how often I'm in my studio working,

but how much is it normalized for women to be like, oh, I don't know where the money comes from, all my credit card bills are paid, it's fine. And so is there a willful ignorance there? Possibly. And do I think Jen knew exactly what he was doing or how illegal it was? I would hate to think someone would put their kids in jeopardy like that and put themselves in financial jeopardy like that. But there's a real possibility there that if the feds didn't want to give them immunity, they could have prosecuted them the same way and be like, hey, this is what's going on. Also, that immunity doesn't seem to extend. It seems to be immunity for these behaviors,

the bookie behaviors or any money moving. That's not going to extend to tax liability. And once you're on the radar of the federal government, the IRS isn't far behind going, oh, you were connected to these people who are already committing tax fraud, let's look at all of your taxes too. So he might not be out of the woods all the way yet, and that can impact her stability in future as well. I mean, it was a bad episode for Jen to be like, he tells me everything and I tell him everything.

It's like, well, if he tells you everything. That was a giant fucking engagement ring. Massive. But is it, I mean, again, the he tells you everything. That was a giant fucking engagement ring. Massive. But is it, I mean, again, the internet can be fake. Is that, you know, there are lots of options to buy massive rings on Amazon. So not saying that hers is or isn't,

but it's not a great look if there's a worry about potential tax implications. And I can't imagine in any plea deal his lawyer wouldn't have asked, is the IRS looking into him and his businesses and where this money's coming from because it was so obvious in his friend, Matthew Boyer's case.

So I imagine we'll see more. I'm always so shocked by people's, I don't know, the kind of their brazenness, but I'm curious. The hubris. Yeah, the hubris, right? Because here is this guy, Ryan, who really looks like what we're seeing is surrounding himself with shady people, maybe does some shady things on his own,

but like, doesn't make much sense to go on to marry a housewife and be so public about your life in a way and show your wealth and show your opulence if it is earned in a shady way that might put a spotlight from the government. What is your read? Is this because like criminals just kind of are cocky in that way? Like I'm just kind of shocked that you know if the people trying to hide something would would do a better job of hiding things. So there was a judge that I worked for

who had a plaque on his desk that said, we don't catch the smart ones. He had been a former AUSA. And there is a level of arrogance bordering into probably DSM diagnoses that is very prevalent with fraud defendants because they think they are smarter than everyone and that what they're doing

is just something nobody else understands. Like it's just business business, nobody else gets it. Ask Jen Shaw. She knew the feds were coming for her. She knew her co-defendants had been arrested all before she started filming Real Housewives of Salt Lake City and was still on the show with the big fake rented house and all the assistance and the money and the closet full of everything. And screenshots of that got used in her federal criminal prosecution. We've seen this time and time again. But to be on reality TV, there has to be a level of it's all going to be fine. Right. Otherwise, who would I could never like I could never. I'm also very boring, but I could never sign myself up for the Internet

digging into my life in the way that it happens to reality stars and say, this seems like fun to me. But there is a level of hubris there that I think goes hand in hand with being on reality TV. We saw it starting with Teresa Judiche and her husband. They were paying cash with everything. It raised some red flags and nosy people working in government offices went, I wonder what's going on there? And then uncovered mortgage fraud and tax fraud and once their eyes are on

you there's a lot of options the feds have and taxes tends to be a pretty easy way to go. So I'm not surprised by it but but still surprised by it. Yeah. He can't have been confused that bookmaking was illegal and that this is his closest friend who he's at least traveling with. And if he thinks that people aren't going to uncover that on the show, not just members of the show, but the audience, when it starts airing, I think that that at this point in time is just incredibly arrogant, maybe early days, reality TV, that's not the expectation,

but that ship has sailed. We know that that's happening now because we've seen it happen on franchise after franchise again and again and again. You have to expect that that's happening. For him to joke about having a Monday launderer, you know, is like on camera, like the hubris that required. And you made a good point, Emily. It's just like the like the the hubris that required and you make a good point Emily

It's just like the the internet is so nosy that as a public figure They will look into things and make things up that are completely false let alone like if you're actually doing something and then you're flaunting your life for people to like ask questions is crazy Behavior it is wild. It's wild to me. And when you look at even like Kyle Richards having her house broken into when she was traveling, if you go back into the days of like the bling ring

that was prosecuted by the LA County District Attorney's Office, if you look back to that, just flaunting what's in your home and where you might live and when you're traveling is a bad enough idea. I had celebrity victims who had been robbed by assistants when they were traveling for things, who had had people break into their homes and steal things while they were traveling. This is not uncommon. So to flaunt that level of wealth on the internet, knowing that these things happen because we, I don't think you don't, I mean, I don't think anyone doesn't know that's

really dialed into reality TV that that's also a problem. You put yourself at risk and you put your family at risk. I'm not gonna hate on reality stars renting a house to show on a show so that where they actually live is never on television. I don't think that's a terrible idea at all. I think it's a safety thing.

But showing everything you own in your closet is maybe opening you up for those who would do illegal things to harm. So we saw it with Tareed. I mean, we saw it with Kim Kardashian and Brance, like over and over and over again. We've seen people robbed for stuff like this. Yeah. Wow.

It's not great. Was Ryan involved with the interpreter in the $16 million of the Dodger player? Was he involved in that or no? Do we know? The court documents are silent, but we know that the interpreter was using a middleman to pass money along to Matthew, and that person is called Individual One.

We have seen news outlets connect the two and say that that was in fact Ryan. Interesting. But we have not seen him listed in court documents, and we probably won't because he has immunity. But we have seen ESPN and others make that connection and say that that was, in fact, him that was making that middleman connection. And then we've seen others on the show

talking about the fact that Jen was perhaps bragging about the fact that they were perhaps bragging about the fact that they were connected to that Dodger player. What do you guys think about Tamra bringing this all up early on in the season and Eddie being like shh, shh? Well, Ryan has either threatened or is actually suing Tamra. And I know anyone can sue anyone for anything, so to speak,

but I guess, can I throw that back to you, Emily? It's just like, if Ryan clearly is involved, has an immunity deal, like, I know he can sue, I guess, Tamra for saying anything, but what is Tamra saying that is wrong? I'm curious, is like, how do you see it in terms of, you know, Tamra's wrong about a lot of things this how do you see it in terms of, you know, Tamara is wrong about a lot of things this season, but when it comes to to Ryan, she actually seems to be right. And I can't,

I'm curious, like, what is her liability in this lawsuit, if Ryan follows through with it? So I haven't seen him file anything. I also wonder if the threat of a defamation suit is enough I also wonder if the threat of a defamation suit is enough to rein Tamara in because we did see her issue an apology and she was sued by Jim Bolino in the past. We learned more this season how much that cost them. The threat of lawsuit might be enough for her to be like, that was incredibly expensive. Even if I'm right, it's not worth the money to prove that I'm right, which can be so difficult with defamation suits. Though California does have a very strong anti-slap, and then he could end up paying her attorney's fees. I wonder if when that was going on,

what he was thinking that it would never come out that he had immunity, like how do we get from him threatening her after she's on What Happens Live, to him at least disclosing that he has immunity so that it ends up in the final episode as they're talking about what's going on with everyone as they wrap up the show. Does he think this isn't gonna come out? Because it's all out now and it was all out. Well, I can promise you he had no idea

about that Hot Mike money launderer comment. Like, I guarantee you, Jen and Ryan idea about that Hot Mike money launderer comment. I guarantee you, Jen and Ryan learned about that comment when we all did, because they certainly didn't remind him of it, they were saving that, they didn't give him the heads up for sure, and I'm really curious about the conversations him and Jen are having behind closed doors today or this week.

I will say it does make me think a little bit less of Jen, who like again, Tamra's annoyed us all this season. We've spoken about it, her behavior as a housewife, but she is operating in the context of her job. Like she is, she may be messy, you know, we can debate that, but she is doing her job. For Ryan to threaten a suit and for Jen to back her man the way she did publicly, knowing that Ryan might be very guilty for all these things,

it feels wrong and dirty. It's one thing to be messy on a reality TV show where you're hired to be messy, but for Jen to, again, just blindly support this guy because she's so afraid to admit that she made a terrible decision to blow her life up for her own love story. She said that this episode.

She was like, I fucked everything up. Yeah, but then now she seems to be backtracking because they announced that she's following through with the wedding. Again, a few weeks ago, she's been very much having her man's back, having Ryan's back, going, you know, basically saying, Tamra, you're gonna pay for this kind of thing.

I think Gina said it properly, you're putting yourself in the line of fire if you choose to marry this man. Also, like on Watch What Happens Live, Andy asking, like, is there a prenup? And him being like, no, like everything, and it's like, because allegedly, all of your money isn't even yours.

So like, of course you're not And it's like, because allegedly all of your money isn't even yours. So like, of course you're not gonna like keep it from her. Yeah. I just wonder if that Laura of another season, it's like, do we get another season if we're with him? Does that pull that storyline through? I wonder if this is a, you know what? We're gonna ride through the storyline,

whether this is the best life choice, is this the best choice for content or for the show? And are these decisions now being made for the show? But someone has to talk to her about what the potential tax liability looks like and remind her of how this went for Erica Girardi, who thought life was going to go one way and is now very much like, I don't, I don't know what life looks like. And we've seen how messy that's been for her. Not only does she probably have at least a million, if not more, illegal fees, but this is never going to end for her because her husband's bankruptcy is hers

because they are married. So when Tom Gerardi's bankruptcy eventually ends, anything that's not paid off or discharged is going to go to Erica to cover. So she's been, you know, separated for over four years, but those bills are still hers. Though the tax liability Ryan incurs before they get married is one thing, you've now got somebody who has a target on their back from the federal government, and they're going to look into everything that you do

for a while going forward because it's easier than finding new cases. So wait, I was just thinking about that. So the fact that Jen is not married to Ryan makes it even more crazy that she's thinking about marrying this man, because once she marries him, the IRS does not care about you not knowing or playing ignorant, right? Like they, you're still guilty.

If the documents are signed, there's little you can do to get away from the financial responsibility on it. You might not get criminally prosecuted, but the money will still be owed. And even if you get divorced after that, the money will still be owed, where I think there's room for her to have independent counsel, have a very real and honest conversation with her. I'm sure she has not done this, but have a very real and honest conversation

with her about what that looks like if you get married, what it looks like if you have a prenup, what it looks like if you don't, and maybe a long engagement and see how the season goes and see what the IRS does is a better option, but also, do they want to capitalize on that for when cameras go up in 2025? Aw, man. Keep it a promise ring.

Couldn't the government or whoever, IRS, whoever might be going after Ryan and then potentially Jen. Let's say Jen moves forward with this marriage, right? And she's just love blinders on. She just wants to ride for her man. The fact that we're discussing Ryan's involvement so much, doesn't that make Jen look like

she must have known something, couldn't they use that against her? Because it's one thing to go about your life and no one's asking you questions and you never thought to ask the questions and you're just like, I don't know, we just had money and I just trusted that my partner was being honest. But this is coming up so much.

And then for Jen to then marry the guy, she looks a lot more complicit than say someone who just you know no one's ever asked them a question they never thought about it like it is hard to look at this situation especially if Jen moves forward with this wedding to think that she knew nothing was going on right I mean well she knows now how much she knows is always up for debate. Only she, well, even she might not know. Only Ryan really knows how much Jen actually knows.

But it definitely raises questions going forward, though she's not going to be held responsible for things going backward. I also wonder if she's fully aware of what that immunity means. And by way of example, as Nevada's going forward with the state level prosecution for the murder of Tupac by Keefe D, he had federal immunity for things and wrote a book. I think, and this is my speculation, that he thought that federal immunity covered everything. And so when he wrote the book talking about all the things he was involved in, he was like, but we're good, good, because the fed said I was fine. And then the state of Nevada came in and He was like, but we're good, good, because the Fed said I was fine.

And then the state of Nevada came in and went, well, we can prosecute murder too, boo, so here we go. There are still state-level prosecutions that can happen, which also confuses people that we have federal-level prosecutions and then state-level prosecutions. And sometimes you can have prosecutions or the same behavior at the state level versus the state level versus

the federal level, depending on what you're doing. In California, I don't need to tell anyone that lives there is a state that's going to get its money. So you can have issues with the federal tax board and the IRS and the franchise tax board with California at the minimum. And those can just be penalties and late taxes. There can be criminal responsibility for that too, though it's not as common on the state level, but it happens. And then you can have state prosecutions

for bookkeeping, for money laundering and what have you. So they're not all the way out of the woods. And if she thinks that they are, she needs her own counsel to walk her through all of the worst case scenarios. That's what lawyers do. We're really good at catastrophizing stuff. Great, great career path for anyone with anxiety that catastrophizes anyway. It's like your job to think of the worst case scenario about everything. So she needs a voice that's just for her, not someone who also works with Ryan, but someone who can talk to her about what her potential ins and outs are on this. So she can make a real decision about if it's worth it

for the show. I don't know how much she's getting paid for the show. Is it going to be worth it down the road? And then if she loops that money in with his money and he has tax issues down the road or continues to, that has real implications for her. If he needs to file bankruptcy, that has real implications for her if they're married,

less if they're not married. That's why I wonder if we watch the reunion, like if she's gonna be coached, because this is like a four or three month difference, maybe more, so it's like, has she gotten that advice? Will she talk about the situation differently? Well, that's a good point, because when I said they probably learned

about the hot mic moment with Ryan this week, and that's probably not true, she learned about it probably before she filmed the reunion because obviously I'm sure they were all picked up cameras. But they were probably shown, I'm assuming most of the finale before they filmed the reunion. I would think so, yeah.

So I'm guessing they would address that. But yeah, it will be really interesting what is discussed at the wedding. It's also interesting whether the show would give Jen good advice or not, depending on what they wanted their character to get them involved. Well, to Emily's point, people want her back.

You think the show's going to give her good advice? The show wants the show. No, I know. But it's like you would think someone would be like, hey, talk to a lawyer on your own. Then Bravo gets looped in. If they're like, you need to go get counsel and they get involved, they can get looped. From production standpoint, production's like, girl, you got to're like you need to go get counsel and they get involved. Yeah. They can get looped from production standpoint. Productions like girl, you got to do what you want to do, but maybe talk for somebody.

But isn't productions job to get the messy moments out and to let the mess continue? Isn't isn't that the goal? Yeah, their job is to just be there and film. Yeah, make a movie. And be the lubricant between scenes. Going back to Tamara and Ryan and Yeah, make a TV show. And be the lubricant between scenes. Going back to Tamra and Ryan and the lawsuit or lack thereof,

Ryan had responded online saying that he hired the same attorney that Jim Bellino hired to sue Tamra previously and Shannon, but he said she was served yesterday. So what's the difference between filing and somebody being served? If she was served, they would have had to file it unless they are talking about a cease and desist. It was a cease and desist. So if they are talking

about a cease and desist, no lawsuit needs to be filed. The letter goes out going, hey, knock it off or we will sue you versus a suit being actually filed. A warning, yeah. Okay. So like a cease and desist is just like a legal warning. Yes, it's a shot across the bow, knock it off, or we will do this. And it doesn't necessarily mean a lawsuit will come. And if a cease and desist goes out and then there's an apology,

normally that's the end of it. In civil, both sides generally don't wanna pay what it's gonna cost to do these things. However, if it's a lawyer that's already like, look, I know how this woman operates. I know who her lawyers are, like, let's ride. I've already done this once. The person who wins in all of these civil lawsuits

are always the attorneys. So if they're gonna get paid by Ryan, they'll send all the letters you want them to send. And they'll be like, sure. I mean, we might lose, but we also know that it cost her hundreds of thousands of dollars last time. Though with the anti-slapping California, which is generally used around free speech and statements made and defamation

defenses. If you lose in those early stage motions, the side that filed the lawsuit pays all the legal fees for the side that won those. And we've seen content creators use those to great success. So if Tamara is correct in what she said, and I don't have the exact words to like lawyer parse exactly what she said. But if she said the FBI was looking into all of this, is he going to come in and say, actually, it was Department of Homeland Security that was looking

into all of this and have a jury ever be like, OK, same, same. Like, really? So. I don't know, he has immunity. So the feds obviously had a conversation with him and his lawyer said to media outlets that he was working with the feds on the case. So I don't think she's 100% wrong without again having her exact words in front of me. And then she apologized pretty quickly.

She did. Jumping quickly away from OC, why has P Diddy been silenced? Why am I hearing nothing about this case anymore? Why is nothing coming out anymore? What's going on? Or am I just not looking in the right direction? Well, honestly, it's the new cycle.

I've still been covering it, but it's the new cycle leading up to the election is that the attention is elsewhere. And I's the news cycle leading up to the election is that The attention is elsewhere and I think there's so much anxiety about the election that the news is Leaning into that maybe not in the healthiest way But there's quite a lot going on in both the civil lawsuits and the criminal lawsuits With Diddy trying to make sure all of the victims are named in every single lawsuit all of those Busby civil lawsuits Not all of them, but a lot of them have different judges.

One judge has already said, look, if the plaintiff isn't named, we're not moving forward. Some of the judges have said, we will take this matter up once Diddy has been sued and the companies have been sued. So there's a lot of movement, but the news cycle has been very full of other things.

And I think that's why you're not hearing about it as much as you were. I think we'll hear about it more. There will be lots of catching up to do, but there hasn't been any new court hearings. Did he has filed an appeal with regard to him being denied bail. That's still pending. So we're waiting for things, but his lawyers have been actively filing for more particulars from the federal government.

And we learned last week, have you guys heard about this? The grand jury's still ongoing. The grand jury is still ongoing, according to a lawyer for a witness who was called to testify before the grand jury, still looking into more indictments against Diddy. So the grand jury is still investigating. So we are a long way from done,

and there will likely be more indictments because the grand jury is still ongoing I just shocked that other celebrity names having there's always a speculation, but that just seems like wild internet speculation But it's clear that Diddy has been involved with other celebrities We've seen a ton of photos being leaked about some of these parties the new witness that testified for the grand jury about some of these parties. The new witness that testified for the grand jury claims to have eight tapes off 11 drives that was supposedly given to him

by somebody close to Kim Porter. So he was forced to name names and confirmed some of the speculation that has been out there. I wanna see these other names. Didn't they just come out with an athlete? It was like an athlete stopped Diddy from doing something to a young boy.

There have been numerous stories, I don't think we've seen, we've seen broad descriptions, but not names. But yes, the stories are starting to bubble up and I think anyone who saw anything is probably calling whatever lawyer they know saying, what do I need to do here? Am I gonna get called in front of a grand jury, especially

people who are at those white parties? And then in all those civil suits we're seeing come out, the civil suits all have like specific incidences and after certain events like this one after the VMAs and this one after the BET awards. So I think people who are at those parties are probably also reaching out to their own counsel to figure out what they need to do or not do. And I imagine down the road we will see some of these names bubbling up. I imagine for the civil attorney, he would rather those individuals reach out and be like, keep my name out of this, whatever it takes and resolve those things to the side. And on the criminal case, the US attorneys do not want a full sideshow of celebrities who may be really good witnesses for them, so they don't want their names out in the

media because they don't want them to get cold feet. So we might see this through witnesses, but we might not see that through witnesses yet. And right now the internet, of course, is like, well, who spent the most time around him and what did they see? J-Lo. Yeah, there's these J-Lo's photos. One more question, different case, the Menendez brothers, do you think they will get out of prison?

I know the LA District Attorney mentioned that he like favored a resentencing. What does that all mean? Is it gonna come down to the court of public opinion when it's all said and done in terms of the motivation of the judge or the DA of granting a resentencing or things like that? Are they just gonna basically go on what they think

public sentiment is leaning more in favor of? I don't think the judge is gonna go off public sentiment. I think the sentiment of the victim's families should be incredibly impactful to the court. There are mixed sentiments, strongly mixed sentiments among the LA County District Attorney's office. And there will be, when this goes to hearing, there will be district attorneys from the office who oppose to resentencing.

And then the district attorney, this will be post-election. So we'll see if he's the district attorney or not anymore, but he is very much in favor of the re-sentencing to do that. They have to remove the special circumstances. So when the Menendez brothers were convicted after their second trial, there were special circumstances on that case. Those special circumstances mean that they were eligible for only life without parole because the office didn't choose to seek the death penalty,

largely, I would imagine, given their age, though I don't quite remember if that's exactly why they chose that. But the special circumstances made them not eligible for parole ever. The court would have to remove those special circumstances that the jury determined and found to then resentence them to 50 to life,

to then take advantage of the youth to 50 to life, to then take advantage of the youthful offenders to make them eligible for parole. So that's what the DA currently is advocating for. Others in the office are not on board with that plan. The jury found the special circumstances. This evidence, they are saying, was known. But then there's also a bid for clemency from the governor who could commute the sentences and say, yes, let them out. There is also a pending habeas petition that is saying there's new evidence here that was not known before that came out during the documentaries. And so there should

be a new trial granted. I don't think that's the option. Anyone in the Menendez camp wants, seeing how long they've been in custody. So there's like a multi-prong wave going on. Do I think at the end of the day, a court might consider resentencing them? Yeah, maybe they really might, but it's not going to be an easy decision for a judge.

I don't know if that decision will be made the day they go to hearing in Los Angeles, but there has to be a hearing. I think the most impactful will be the victim's families and the Menendez brothers' families and their behavior in custody. And it seems from all accounts that their behavior in custody,

even when they had that life without parole over their head, has been trying to not just improve themselves, but give back to the community within custody. when they had that life without parole over their head has been trying to not just improve themselves but give back to the community within custody. So we'll see what the judge does but I think the victim's family is the most important consideration in that if they think he should be free, if they think that there's rehabilitation there, then isn't it for them to have the most weight when you go to court? This is all very interesting stuff, Emily, and we really appreciate you taking the time.

Very long explanation. Can you please let my audience know where they can follow you, watch your show, all that fun stuff that you're putting out there? Absolutely, at the Emily D. Baker, all over the internet, I do live streams on YouTube covering the trending and pop culture court cases and live trials.

We just finished the Sarah Boone trial, six very long days in Florida to cover that case. And we've got Karen Reed coming up for trial again in January and some hearings going forward in that. And of course, all the ditty stuff in both the long form live streams and on Quick Bits. So really if you just download the Lawn Art app, which is my app, it'll let you know what I'm covering and where so you're up to date on all the things legal.

Amazing. Well, we appreciate you. Can't wait to talk to you again, Emily. Bye. Talk to you soon. Have a good one. Bye-bye. Bye, everybody. Great stuff. Yeah. Final thoughts on OC? I guess we'll have the reunion. So will you see the reunion next week?

Yep. Next week. Yeah. Okay. Or this week. Three parts, I'm guessing. So they'll come. Well, we don't know if it's three parts yet, I believe. We don't know. We won't get to, is Jen gonna be, this will be the last topic discussed on the season, right?

They'll save it for you. You would think so to keep people watching, yeah. But I think Jen is guaranteed to come back next season, so I say that just because people want her back, but. I think they're all gonna be back. I hope they are. It'll be sprinkled throughout. I find it hard to believe that Tamara's gonna be able

to not have a little dig at her at any chance she gets. Second, the heat comes on Tamara, she's gonna be like, yeah, well, what about the FBI? Yeah. For real. I mean, for all the criticism we've leveled against Tamara, I still want her on my TV screen. Same, no, 100%.

I do not want her off. No, God no. If she's going to learn. God no, Jesus. If she's gonna learn how to be a better person, I at least want to watch it. I'm good without Tamra. She's good TV, but I'm good without. You ride for Lisa.

I don't ride for Lisa. I just respect what she's done. I don't respect what Tamra has done. Piece of shit garbage horse. You fucked up in New York. You ride for that. You respect that. Four plus four.

She ate. Well, we respect you listening and we will be back tomorrow. So no matter what is happening with the election, whether we have news or not, just know that if you need to break away from reality, we are here to give you the tea. And there is a lot to be discussed with Ashley and Tyler's relationship. Ashley brings all the receipts. She girls in great detail the conversation she's had with her now husband Tyler and the baby mama. It's an episode you will

not want to miss. I promise you that. We are also back on Thursday. Jackie Tone from your favorite hit Netflix show, Nobody Wants This is with us on Thursday's Reality Recap. Plus, we'll be getting into Roni, with some Bachelorette, and whatever else is going on in your headlines. We will be sure to cover it on Thursday. We'll see you then. Bye! The wait is over! Celebrate the grand opening of Hard Rock Hotel and Casino Bristol featuring superstar Blake Shelton live on November 14th.

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