The Viall Files - E88 Bachelor Recap - Ep 5: Mean Girls Club with Anne Winters

Episode Date: February 4, 2020

Today actress Anne Winters from Netflix’s 13 Reasons Why joins us to talk about the fifth episode of The Bachelor. First, Nick shares his strong opinions about Chase Rice. Then they discuss the “mean girls club,” they talk about whether or not Kelsey is a cool chick, and then they predict the winner of the season. Do you think this is the cattiest season ever? Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode! THANKS TO OUR SPONSORS: PHLUR: http://phlur.com/viall HUNT A KILLER: http://huntakiller.com/viall CODE: VIALL DIPSEA: https://www.dipseastories.com/viall See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what's up everybody welcome to another bachelor recap episode of the vile files uh very excited for our guest today ann winters hello talented actor actress do you go by actor or actress i always say actor now it's like 2020 yeah i mean some people get pissed if you say one or the other but i could care less singer uh we emmy award winning emmy award winning actress yeah yeah that's nice yeah that's a nice flex uh you might know her from 13 reasonsasons. That's where I know you from. And you're part of also the ABC family. You were on an ABC show. Yeah, we were on after The Bachelor last year,

or after Hannah's season, called Grand Hotel on ABC with Eva Longoria. It was really fun, yeah. I met a lot of you guys. I met a lot of The Bachelor Nation people. We are. There's a few of us. There's a lot of you guys.

But most importantly, you're just a diehard Bachelor fan. I really am. I've been watching with my family since I was like a little kid. So this is a timeless, enjoyable thing. You are. So we're happy to have an expert here to help us break down another just a crazy episode. Before we do, though, I do have a bone to pick from last week's episode. And we talked a little bit about it before.

I feel like, unfortunately, Chase Rice is kind of a douchebag. Well, after what you told me that he said, I would have to agree with you. So here, for those of you who aren't aware, is that, as we all remember, we had this Chase Rice shows up on the episode. Apparently, there's a dating history with him and Victoria F. And for some reason, he decided the day after to go on his media tour, I presume to plug his album. And for some reason decides to kind of be a baby about it. Not only throw the bachelor under the bus, kind of like, you know,

complaining about producers and saying he didn't sign up for this or that, but also Victoria F because he strongly is implying that their situation or relationship was a one night stand, which is totally not what it seemed like that day. Like, yes. Right. It definitely didn't seem like that. There all these images he seemed pretty awkward and even if even if it was right

i'm just like why do you need to say it like why do you need to call out this girl on on a national radio show i feel like it makes you look bad too yeah i mean it's just like it's not good for anybody what i don't get is is that no one looked bad right like as awkward as it was right like everyone kind of agreed and correct me if i'm wrong when you were watching it was like clearly good job producers they took advantage of this crazy situation that we can't believe is happening but yeah oh my god this is weird but chase rice didn't look bad no victoria f didn't look bad peter didn't look bad it was just awkward and awesome it was amazing like their chemistry you could tell was way deeper than a one-night stand first of all that's why she was dancing like she was and they were looking at each other and like chase looked more effed up than victoria did he's just like holding his there's

a still shot uh thanks to my friends at the ringinger, of right when they're done. And Chase is like holding his head and just like, I can't believe I'm doing this. And that's fine. Like you dated a pretty girl. Like why do you have to go on a radio show? And I don't know if you know, like he was on Survivor. Oh, I didn't know that. I didn't know either. But he was on Survivor like 10 years ago.

Took second. He had his own reality show time. He knows about reality tv he knows what's up like supposedly he told her he didn't want her to go on it so this was his first time seeing her on it because that's what she said on the date but that's the only thing yeah i don't know i've i you know i've had relations with producers i know enough of people who have talked like there was definitely some sort of relationship and he definitely knew she was going on the show that much i know to be true right and so like and so regardless it's just like why do you have to

like and it's a dick move because here he is the country singer she's some girl reality tv girl we like to snark on reality you know we get it we're gonna snark on some you know some of these people here but everyone's gonna believe him and so now she's forced with you know she's being called a liar like you know i even had some girlfriends of mine like text me like oh this apparently they never dated she's a liar like you know the she's lying about like the relationship and it's just like why do you have to throw her under the bus? And I'm just, and I'm surprised by some of the fans of women who are criticizing her because it's like of all the people, you know, we have a, it's a dating podcast. Right. And so I can't tell you how many times I get, you know, uh, questions.

A girl comes in and just, I hooked up with this guy, you know, I'm really excited about him. We met hung out a couple of times and then he, you know, maybe he goes or maybe he leaves or whatever, you know, it's fine. him we might hung out a couple times and then he you know maybe he goes or maybe he leaves or whatever you know it's fine people hook up that's fine hook up culture but like she has a right to feel awkward or nervous if she sees the guy on a reality tv show and so that's all she did she didn't go on the show she wasn't on a date with peter she didn't say we've been dating for a year and a half he was a love of my life yeah she just said we dated he was my ex this is weird like i just

want to she just told peter that she knew chase and there was something there yeah so i don't get why he had to throw her under the bus because he's petty and he was embarrassed yes 100 she's the most real girl in the house so for that to happen to anybody i feel like i would trust her yeah i mean that to like not overplay something that was really nothing she was yeah she would she already tried not bringing it up at all she like hated the situation i totally agree totally chill and also like chase like i don't know much about the music industry except the fact that you can be really talented and still not make it. Sometimes you just need a little bit of luck.

You need a pop. And this is the pop that Chase Rice is trying to get by going on The Bachelor. So just shut up and say thank you to the producers. Because one night Chase Rice was this kind of maybe up and coming country singer, CB. And the next morning, he's mainstream. He's in every tabloid. Everyone's talking about Chase Rice. His album is doing what it is.

I'm sure it's fine. I don't like, I'm sure it's a good album. I'm sure it's talented. But people are talking about it because of Victoria. So just say thank you to The Bachelor and Victoria and shut the F up. Flur. Flur. Flur, new friend of show.

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All right. Well, first of all, we left off like after it being continued into this episode. Yeah, so now we're right into the rose ceremony. Before we get into this, what are your so far your thoughts on Peter, on the season? Are you enjoying it so far?

I mean, I enjoy every Bachelor season for its own reasons, but I genuinely am not a massive fan of peter i mean i like him as a person why i think he's really like a nice guy but i also i know how diplomatic can i really be like we like peter peter peter is a bachelor but i feel like he's more of a girl than all the girls on the house. Like he. Tell me more. He just seems like such a, like someone picked him out of a cartoon book and like just like placed him in the world. And he said everything like perfectly, like a perfect little robot. And he says like, this is going to be amazing.

This is going to be fun. And like when the girls were all in their lingerie, he was just like, this is amazing. This is going to be fun and like when the girls were all in their lingerie he was just like this is amazing this is going to be fun and like in each date it's this it's like the same kind of reactions so i like peter i think he's really sweet but honestly this season i've been really liking watching the girls and their drama more than any relationship unfold with peter right now well it is early so that So that's typically common though. I don't know. There's been a lot more like juicy relationships

or like juicy- In the past seasons you think? Yeah. Like give me an example. Like Hannah, I mean, even Hannah. Hannah was like pretty good at like really being herself and like speaking her mind about each person and not being like super, super diplomatic about everybody. but it's different with the bachelorette and bachelor

okay because uh we talked about this last week but like hannah can go and say stay in your lane guys and like shut the fuck up and like you can speak up and everyone's like go hannah you go girl and if the bachelor does that everyone's dude, why are you being a dick? It's hard. You have to try not to yell. I guess that's very true. It's a fine line for the bachelor. So most bachelors are very like, don't be a dick.

I don't want to be a dick. And so just be nice. Well, he's definitely not a dick. He's definitely not a dick. I think his only downfall would be that he's a little bit, like, which was he was worried about in this episode was like wishy-washy or like the whole Hannah thing. When Hannah came at the beginning, it was like,

he was over her and then he thinks about it. And then the other girl that he brought back is like, oh, he's over her and then he thinks about it. Oh, I don't get that, right? For the life of me so we pick up on this episode the rose ceremony uh alaya's back yeah everyone's hating on alaya yeah and then he decides to send alaya home and for the life of me i still don't get what a peter is apologizing for or he's just like i'm so sorry and all the and all the women are like the disrespect

i'm like what is he doing wrong he's trying to figure out who he's supposed to be he's too nice that's the the girls are walking all over him because they can they smell blood right yeah they're like he was dealing with 10 pissed off girlfriends and letting and letting that just run and he's taken every girl's opinion about another girl really really really, really into consideration. And I think he's just really let that kind of overshadow like his thoughts and feelings. That's why he's like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Totally. I mean, I think that's what it is. And like you have Victoria Paul, who I love the quick beat. They're just like, well, I don't know if I can trust him. Well, guess we'll have to see.

Meanwhile, you're like, you just yelled at him for him not trusting you. It's just like. My favorite part of her conversation with him was she was like, I just really don't want to talk right now. I just really don't want to talk. Okay, fine.

Let's go talk. And then she's standing there and she's like, I'm not going to sit down. I'm not going to sit down. And then she sits down. And then she sits down. She was also caught in a lie though with Alayah.

Yes, I know. I thought she was guilty. She was guilty. A hundred percent. She was totally guilty. Caught in a lie. But now she wants everyone to know that she doesn't know if she can trust Peter, but she's willing to give him a shot.

For the life of me, I'm just confused why Peter is apologizing. So anyways, Alayah's going home. Peter apologizes to the women for what I am not entirely sure. But this is always my favorite part is when you have on the show all the women attacking one girl. And then she leaves. And everyone for a moment is really happy. Oh, the drama's gone. And all it does is shift, right?

The Badger House is like a Stephen King novel where where like, you know, there's like this evil spirit and that evil spirit is basically like jealousy and insecurity. And when the house like attacks one organism and kills it, it just moves on to another host. And that's what it's about to go on. 100%. And then what, it turns into Kelsey or something.

So it's just funny watching it, just like this infestation of like- I'll give it to Alea though, that she left like really nicely. She was like, look, I didn't really know that I was gonna be this much of a, like I didn't know every girl would be like hating you so much.

I felt bad for her. I thought she left really like i was like okay fine classy i mean you caused a lot of drama and had your own problems but the way that she left was great yeah i mean she i could tell that maybe she might be a type of person who would annoy me yeah 100 but at the same time like what i just don't know what she did to deserve that type of victory okay well people i i don't know if you did to deserve that type of vitriol from people. Okay, well, I don't know if you noticed this, but the entire episode when the girls were talking in their little close-ups,

the bruises from football were all over their arms. And I was like, that's why I would be pissed. Well, that is why they were pissed because they were just like, we were literally tackling each other. We were fighting each other. I have bruises still and this girl comes in, just walks in and she just gets a rose.

I mean, that would like, that would bother me. I don't know if it would be to the extent of the bothering that it did to every single girl in the house. But those bruises were gnarly. Like,

look out for those bruises if you haven't watched it yet. So the Mean Girl Club is now going to Costa Rica. Yeah. I just call it a Mean Girl Club. It's the bunch of mean girls. This is crazy.

I know this is the most drama I've seen in a house in a minute. So now they're in Costa Rica. And what happens next? We have the photo shoot. Well, there was a one-on-one date. A one-on-one with, oh, yes. I'm sorry. Oh, yes.

Miss Sydney. And in case Sydney, in case sydney in case we forget sydney's name sydney's there to remind us her name because she constantly refers herself as sydney i think she looks like a bratz doll she's like very and she kind of acts like a bratz doll she's very like sassy and i didn't know she had a posse until someone called her out on it but like that totally makes sense. She definitely is. If there is a mean girl club, she seems to be the leader of the club. I totally see that.

She's a total babe. She has some sass. She's got a little bit of vocal fry going on. But I don't think she's been mean or tried to start anything really yet. She's a very outspoken person she's got a big personality um and she's just part of the drama and she doesn't mind speaking out and she is yeah she can't help herself but like speak out and she can be a little mean sometimes i don't think she means to like bully or be mean but it. It's just the way that she is. And that atmosphere. It's just the way that she is.

She can't help it. Yeah. So yeah, we get to hear her story. And apparently she was bullied as a young child. Yeah. Which seems ironic seeing that she's always yelling at Aaliyah. She definitely came up and, you know, became. Best kisser in the house. And became the best kisser. I love and became the best well i love how peter

is he has this weird innocence about him where he just kind of says whatever yeah oh you're the best kisser don't tell anyone meanwhile there's like five cameras around him i i love that he said that i honestly think that he said that was sincere like if that if i said that you would know that i've been like don't tell anyone fully aware that there said that with sincere, like if I said that, you would know that I've been like, don't tell anyone, fully aware that there's cameras around and just like trying to make a joke. But I don't think Peter was trying to make a joke.

I think he's just so earnestly falling in love that he's just, don't tell anyone. He is. He is very like genuine. He's like the perfect boy. I was going to say boy. He's a man, but the perfect like person. So I think that, yeah, I totally think it was genuine.

And I was like clapping like, yay, I'm so glad that you said that. Yeah, it was like an honest, you always love in these moments where you get some, what you know is honesty. It's like, not that everyone's lying, but also everyone's safe. And even Peter, when he's trying to be nice

it's like okay come on pete what do you really think like that's what you were saying and so and he's just like hey actually you're the best kisser you're like oh shit i don't know if you're supposed to say that right um so yeah anything else happened on cindy's date that we need to i mean no not really i thought it was i thought it was good i will say my favorite person just before i forget is madison i still really really like her from their one-on-one genuine and real gen i thought she was she was genuine and real and i thought he was genuine and real i'm uh i'm a little teasing you didn't hear about the uh instagram oh no no i didn't know she allegedly well she commented on her own instagram saying, you're so genuine and real.

What? Like with a fake account? Well, it was her actual account. It was quickly then deleted. The assumption is that she runs her own fake fan account. And got caught with like complimenting herself. That's weird. Listen, it's an honest mistake.

I mean, it's not very honest to create a fake account, fan account, but I guess. What's funny is her comment was, you're so genuine and real. And like, again, I tease, but I empathize with the women who go on and they get nervous and they just want people to like them.

But it's literally the opposite of genuine. So funny. And real. Okay. I did not know that, but I still. You could still like her. I still really. She's very nice and normal.

Like out of the girls, I think that she has kind of strayed away from the drama and I still love their one-on-one and their connection. So you like her for that though, but I thought you liked the drama. Well, I like, okay. First of all, for that though, but I thought you liked the drama. Well, I like, okay, first of all, don't get me wrong, I love watching the drama. But like as a, who I think that he would be best with, you know, at the end of the day

is the one who's not the biggest drama maker. So you got sweet Peter and you got sweet Madison. Yeah. I think that they might make a good match. But we'll see. That's a strong choice. I can see that happening. All right. So Madison is your front runner so far.

That's who I like personally, but also I don't really know like Peter. Like I feel like I still have yet to get to know him. I'm not holding you to it. I'm not going to have to get a finale and be like, Ann, what the fuck? I feel so much pressure now. Who is it?

Like I'm betting on it. No one really knows. I like Victoria P. kind of, although... You Victoria P.? I like, although the... The liar. The liar. I just think she's, like, nice,

and if she remains kind of in this liar stage, I may not like her anymore, but I like her personality. And I like Victoria F. too, because I thought she was... I like... Victoriaoria f seems like she simply just can't help herself but emote her emotion but emote really i feel like she's like hidden or like she like hides she's trying not to all the time like she really wants to just go off

but she's just trying not to i don't she's doing her very best to keep it and even i see that i see that i see that uh all see that. I see that. All right. I guess I have more favorites than I thought. So let's keep this show going. Who else? Or going. Who else?

I don't know. Now all I'm thinking about is Kelsey and the champagne falling in her face. And now I'm really just, that's all I'm thinking about right now. All right. So we got the Costa Rica photo shoot for Cosmopolitan. Yeah. Which they continue to just turn this into basically an influencing boot camp. That's what I said.

That's so funny. I'm so glad you said that because that's what I said. I said, this is the most obvious season of that. Yeah, they've really gotten meta. It's like they're really leaning in. And I applaud them for it. Like, let's not pretend that, you know, they don't already have...

Want to do that. Yeah, like they have their filters already picked out. You know, their page layouts, their themes, they're ready to go. They're ready to go. Although Victoria F though, remember the first date when they did the catwalk and she was like i can't do this i like don't want to be in front of people and then she like totally showed everyone and now she was the winner of the

winner uh but i will say to her credit i i teased her early on because my i was just like there's no i don't believe this nervous girl she's super hot like what do you mean like come on really uh but she definitely seems like she has a hard time showing it yeah you know even when she won she got like this kind of awkwardly nervous did you notice uh this entire episode of instead of black boxing oh my gosh they're now painting in it looks swimsuits and it looks even worse it's like they all took a dump it looks so weird these girls must be so pissed they picked out these like super cute bikini bottoms you know flattering they all work out and meanwhile the abc's is like painting swimsuits on the same color like the leopard one i was like you really did that.

They really went and like did a leopard like cut out. A whole thing. And it just looks like a saggy butt and all of them. It does. It's really. Well, at first, at the first time it happened, I was like, that's a terrible swimsuit. Right.

It was the black one and going, it was Sydney's. Yeah. If it's a black box, you're like, ooh, you can't show what she's wearing. Ooh, that's like, ooh, she must be looking good. Too much for ABC family. Now it's just like, ooh, Sydney, what are you doing? Yeah, it's like ABC, like don't make my butt look like that, thank you.

But like, it doesn't look like that. I'd rather have the box, yeah, leave more to the imagination than have them color it in a way that's not flattering at all. Really, really screwing the girls over with the swimsuit. It was one time where like Peter's hand kind of got cut off too.

That's when I really noticed it. I was like, oh, it's painted because like his hand was like cut off. Like CGI'd off. Kelsey's about to lose her, wait, are we balancing around? So like she starts losing her mind. So first, it was before the date, Kelsey kelsey's back first first kelsey is champagne gate last week kelsey was like

the winner of the episode she was yeah surprisingly the only seemingly cool sane person everyone else kind of losing their mind kelsey's just like no peter it's totally cool that you brought her back like i'm fine let's just hang out now she's back to like sharon stone casino she's totally crazy um i i i think kelsey's still a cool chick i think i think she's genuinely nice and i think that she underestimated how attacked that she might be just by being in the house like i just think she's a very like fragile person and And when she gets nervous, she drinks, which is fine. And we have the two drink minimum. So she can't be like.

Wait, really? Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. That's cool. She sounded like she was slurring her words though. She probably, you know, two drinks. Two drinks.

Four drinks in an hour on an empty stomach for someone who's probably like a buck ten. You can still get sauced. I feel, okay, okay, okay. Yeah, I mean, how many drinks does it take you to start? You'd be surprised. Anyway, so she's nervous. Yeah, that's the thing. She's nervous.

She clearly had a little bit to drink. She's emoting. And then Tammy's just watching, waiting. Oh my gosh. I love how Tammy, it's just watching waiting oh my gosh I love how Tammy it's just like is Kelsey a little emotional and maybe a little crazy yes but like Kelsey's here just like um you know Kelsey's just like Tammy I'm sad I'm jealous Tammy like, well, I need to tell Peter. Peter. I know. These bitches are sad. You need to send them home.

They are emotional. It's like everyone in the house is emotionally unstable. And it goes from that to like, she had a nervous breakdown. Could you imagine going on a date with a guy and him? And again, back to Peter

just being ruthlessly honest it's not like peter is just like hey listen so i heard maybe you had a tough day or maybe he's just like unstable so i heard your i heard you i heard you lost your mind he just like he just said i heard you had a mental breakdown could you imagine going on a date with a guy no and he just flat out says oh so Beth, she just told me that you had a mental breakdown. Do you have anything to say for yourself? If she really had a mental breakdown,

just by him saying that to her would make her have an even bigger breakdown. I would have had a mental breakdown if somebody told me they had a mental breakdown. So if there's any proof that Kelsey doesn't have a mental problem, is that while she is that, well, she is emotional.

Yeah. In that moment, she actually handed herself pretty well. I think so too. For a girl who's clearly falling for a guy, the guy says, someone told me you had a mental breakdown. Yeah. She's just like, well, I got emotional. I think the girls are looking for any way way to like go and tell peter about them

because peter will take whatever the girl says and take it to heart and really really really think about it it's that evil spirit that's looming in the house who can i crack next this one this one and no yes peter and i will like i've seen like similarities between like me and Peter, Peter, but Peter really is coming into his own character where he is like this earnest person who like his biggest fault is that he really wants this to work. And as someone who's been in that shit, like you want it to, you do.

It's like you get so nervous. Like every bachelor bachelorette truly is like just really fucking nervous sweating it the pressure it's just like i the only one who has the pressure of getting engaged in nine weeks is peter none of these other girls they're just like they're kind of like just don't pick me take me far and don't pick me uh but peter's just like i gotta do this so like i really want this to work and his biggest fault obviously if there's a fault is how how earnest he is because it's just like he's just not fucking around it's just like i heard this and i heard that and tell me this right because most i mean most other seasons like sometimes the audience is like why don't you

just take their word for it you know they've been telling you about this girl who's like so crazy and she really is. Like, why don't they listen? And they'll be like, I just don't see it. You know, I just, to me, they're great. And then they end up being like top two or something. And this is the only time where like, no matter what anybody says, he's like, that totally could be true because I've been there.

And it is, you know. I heard you were sad one day. Yeah. I heard you were mad. Yeah. Put some all on the spot. It's so great. Dipsy, wow.

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Oh, you do? I do. I am not comfortable with it. That does not surprise me. I'm into it. But that being said, it can go sideways. Oh, for sure. Real quick.

For sure. Right? And if it feels unnatural and it feels forced, it has the opposite effect. Yes. it it it is it has the opposite effect yes um also just if you have been drinking a little bit not the best time for the dirty talk i've had that happen where i was like stop oh the girl the girl was saying just yeah anyways what is dipsy it's created by women for women sexy stories making you feel like you're right there in the action. And they also have courses to teach you how to dirty talk. It's just getting us in

touch. Right. And here's the thing. The thing about dirty talk is like, it's got to be organic and nice and it's got to feel natural. And it seems like the fine women at Dipsy are making, helping you feel more comfortable with expressing yourself. Because honestly, like all Dirty Talk is, is vocalizing your feelings in the moment. Exactly. And being honest, not necessarily saying some crazy shit you don't mean. Right. And sometimes that can feel awkward.

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stories.com slash V-I-A-L-L. dipsystories.com slash V-I-A-L-L. Is there anything else on the, yeah, so Kelsey

and the group date. It makes for more drama for sure. Yeah. Tammy called out Kelsey, Kelsey. What happened at the end of the like photo shoot date? The group date. That's where Kelsey and Tammy have their first.

Oh, right, right. That's where Tammy's just like, hey, you were panicking. She came out of nowhere, by the way. Tammy? Yeah. I like didn't like her drama started like within this past week. She went from the, oh, what a cool hang. She's like the sporty wrestler.

Yeah. What a cool, awesome. She's just like the relatable chick to don't tell Tammy anything. Right. Don't do anything around Tammy because whatever you do, she is definitely telling Peter about it. because whatever you do she is definitely telling peter about it um do you know who surprised me is hannah ann because i thought that she was gonna be kind of the target or like one of the girls that had a lot of drama and she turned out to be like so sweet and so adorable and nice i uh i wasn't sure who i thought i think hannah ann's gonna win. Really? Yeah. I do like her.

Because of that, I know we were teased in the previews after this episode that Hannah Ann finally gets a one-on-one. Oh. And it's pretty common for your front runner or to have to wait for a one-on-one, not always, but sometimes it's just like if the lead really likes someone, they make them wait. Because once you have that one-on-one,

you really do like- Get to know them way more. Accelerate the relationship past, like every time you have one-on-one, that's why you see Kelsey freaking out now because now she's had a whole day with Peter. Now she does feel like she's made this real connection. And if you are the bachelor

and you like one of these people you too feel like, oh God, now I thought I was gonna pick her, now I feel like I really like her. So sometimes they might hold that off. And you're right, like Hannah Ann has kind of, she's really settled in her lane like you said. She's saying all the right, like even now, she's like super chill about, on the group date,

Peter, you know, I haven't had a lot of time with you, but I'm just grateful, she's saying all the right things she's saying all the right things real chill like and she hasn't been trying to get in the drama which i didn't think at the beginning right no one's pushing her buttons yeah that's like we we got her involved in the champagne gate and they were like all right just let her disappear for a while let's we'll bring her back towards the end so for that i, I feel like Hannah Ann might be- I think that you might, that's a really good thought. She might be the winner.

I don't know. And I don't, like no one knows. It's kind of, I'm enjoying not being spoiled. I'm like, I'm making authentic guesses here. Nice. So I totally- I like Hannah Ann. It's a great, you definitely pointed out

that's great that she, yeah. And I think that makes her more interesting too, because sometimes with the winners, it's like no offense to Madison, but the only time for me that I thought Madison was interesting is when she got pissed for tying in the football game for like two seconds. They showed her being really irritated. I don't know if you remember. Oh, I don't remember that.

Because other than that, we used to madison just being sweet yeah and nice yeah and i'm sure she's sweet and nice but there's a person there who probably gets mad and frustrated and like it's nice to see victoria f or even kelsey like show real emotion because like everyone does that yeah some everyone has buttons to be pushed and you get to know them more so like we've seen a little we've seen like the kind of catty side of hannah ann and we've seen that she has that personality but now she's decided to to move away so she's a front runner for sure okay cool uh hannah ann what do you think of kelly so kelly then kelly has a one-on-one oh you're not feeling kelly i'm not feeling kelly

why so you're like because kelly's not feeling peter kelly's not grateful to be there kelly doesn't even want to yeah it doesn't seem like she wants to be there at all and she even said on her one and one-on-one like you know i get the whole process and that i mean i don't get it because i wasn't i've never done it but i understand where she's coming from like all of her concerns and everything but at the end of the day she doesn't even look at him or like seem like she really likes him like she could go home tomorrow and like probably not be that upset it seems like i agree but i this is where like i felt like i and i really like peter or i almost was getting frustrated with peter where it was like peter loves a crier oh if you so that's why he likes kelsey if you well and i and i don't think it's because i think peter really is afraid of just not working out yeah and it is really hard to tell and i do feel

for peter more than any other season because as we talked about, for all the are you here for the right reasons bullshit through the year, now there's a real fear of are you here for Instagram? You know? Like are you here, like are you really here for me? That's a real, and I think you see that with Peter, right? So, and I think sometimes Peter, the one way for Peter to tell

that they are here for him is through tears apparently. So every time a girl cries, Peter's just like, oh, you do love me. Okay, we can move forward. We can move forward. Meanwhile, Kelly is just like,

yeah, it's cool. It's cool, man. No emotion. She like did not care. She's low energy. I want to defend Kelly because I too can be low energy and just because not she's low energy i i want to defend kelly because i too can be low energy and just because you're a low energy person doesn't necessarily mean that you don't feel

anything yeah but you even being a low energy person you can tell that when you were into people and like when you weren't you know i can it just didn't seem and even her whole thing she was like i just feel like i'm more mature and like this and that and the way that she was, it just didn't seem. And even her whole thing, she was like, I just feel like I'm more mature and like this and that. And the way that she was saying it just sounded almost like a diss to Peter. And then he gave her the rose, which I thought he was going to take it away. I thought, I thought,

I thought she was going home. They were kind of setting it up that she was going to go home before the date. So I don't know if that's like they're saving it or that's why eventually like i don't think kelly wins now for that reason i think eventually whenever she does go home it will be for this whole like i'm not gonna cry for you peter yeah and peter is gonna be like well i need you to cry for me because how else will i know like even from the very beginning of the episode like she had episode, when she's like, oh, we just got here

and we've all been traveling, all the girls are really excited, but I'm just really tired because I've been to like 32 places or whatever and I'm just like, that's okay. I know, but I get where she's coming from.

Imagine she's what, 27, 28? I don't know. And in that house house that's like a senior citizen i mean yes thank you and then this house in particular is a bit more dramatic it's really a bit more catty and here's kelly not that she's above it or not that she's better than them and i think even she was just trying to say when she brought up like hannah ann and she made a point like she is probably in a very different part of her life than hannah ann that's not it sounds like a dig but i

don't think she means it as a dig it's just yeah no i don't i don't think she's trying to do i don't think it's rude i think she's just like i don't relate to any of these women and she's having to hang out with them 24 7 And she sees these petty fights. Kelly's like all the things we just talked about. You don't see Kelly having an opinion about it. She's just like, this is stupid. Yeah. She's just like, why are we talking about it?

And she even said to him, like, why are you getting involved in all of the drama and everything? Yeah. I just feel like, yeah, I don't think it's her fault. I don't think she's mean. I don't think that. Yeah, you're right it's not a dig i think that at the end of the day though that she just overall doesn't really want or like want as bad to be there even for peter regardless of the drama as much as the

other girls yes and i was just i mean it's i when i'm watching it Peter that's where I like what I would not that it's better or worse I just would have reacted differently I I would have probably appreciated Kelly being like that and that probably would have made me chaser because I'm the opposite that's probably why I have the problems I have is like if you don't love me then I will chase you so withhold your love for me and I'll be like super standoffish yeah um but yeah peter he almost looks like he's like yelling at kelly he's like getting mad yeah he seemed very upset he's like i need you to cry for me that should be the catchphrase i need you to cry for me you should cry and then when they do see this is what i need from you i need you to cry for me. I need you to cry. And then when they do, this is what I need from you. I need you to cry or you don't love me

or you're not here for the right reasons. All right. So Kelly gets the rose. She survives. We all thought she's going home, but I think this is, we all, we agree.

This is, I think she'll go home. We're forecasting Kelly's demise sooner than later. I don't think she makes hometowns. No way. Absolutely not. Yeah. And I might even be Kelly. It might be like i'm not i'm not

bringing this home i think kelly might leave like i would i could see kelly leaving within like two episodes if she's kind of still there and still you know having issues i think she's gonna be like this isn't for me you know i just i just don't like you what i really want is a standoff between pellet kelly and peter and peter saying i need you to cry right now and kelly's like i'm not gonna do it if you need me to cry no if you have to cry you're gonna go home kelly's like fine i'm gonna go home i can see her saying that she wants to go home and peter being like but please don't you know like that i can see the other way around yeah um all right so then now we, so we've had all the dates.

Kelsey's freaking out because she's been put on the spot. Yeah. She thinks all the women are telling Peter that she's crazy. Yeah. So. That she's a drunk, that she has mental health

or mental problems. And she's a pill popper. And she's a pill popper. Which. All things. Geez. Wow. That's,

again, gotta say, Kelsey might emote, but when that information's coming at you she's handling it yeah t well yeah i'm yeah 100 because those are big things to put on someone and be on tv and not really have any evidence of like you can't be like no i don't you know i don't you know like that's all that all that world is is he versus she said, or she said versus she said. So she walks down to get some time with Peter. She's crying.

Smart. Peter, smart on her part. Peter is very excited that she's crying. Clearly they have a connection through tears. I loved their mini date. Which by the way, how hard is it to do that? Like how hard is it for her to say, hey, can I go and talk to Peter?

Because why don't they all just make their own time to do that? Like how hard is it for her to say, hey, can I go and talk to Peter? Because why don't they all just make their own time and do that? Because you can't. Okay, so that is a special like let for her to do that. So yeah, I mean, it's one of those things too. I had watched a little bit before I went, but I don't know how long you've been watching. When I was in Andy's season, I snuck out

and I got a bunch of heat for it. But I was like, I want to see her again. And I just said, hey, is there a way we could, I mean, can you guys like set this up? Yeah. And they're like, sure, we're going to totally use this against you. But in the moment I'm thinking, great,

I get to spend more time with her. And so you're only- So they tell you that we might use this against you. Oh no, of course not. No, of course not. They're like, oh no, let's set it up oh my god okay so yeah so anyway down there so she goes down and my guess is she probably said i just want to talk to peter and then they probably said well do you want you still want to talk to peter

and let's go she has full reason to too because she has totally all these bad things on her name so she goes and she tells peter and she just is again i think she is very relatable that way because i it's very relatable is even rewinding back to the group date to saying i'm having a hard time with this because this is fucking weird and i i'm having anxiety and i'm being standoffish and I just need to know, it's not because I don't like you, it's because I had felt that way before in that world. It's a weird feeling. It's like, I'm not gonna compete.

Yeah, I think she handled herself well and everything she said was like- Yeah, so she talks to Peter. Peter, she's crying. So Peter's very excited about this. And then the dick move of all dick moves by Peter and I know he didn't mean to be a dick he's just like hold on I'm gonna get a rose I'm gonna give you a rose which is like I loved Kelsey's reaction which is like oh no oh no she has to go into the house like this? Why are you doing this to me, Peter? She's like, just kidding.

I don't know. I'll wait to find out. And Peter's like, I don't care what the girls think, Kelsey. It's like, I do. Do you not listen to anything I said? They just... I know. That was really funny.

Like, Peter has no idea that, like, the attack that she gets when she gets home. I can't wait for him to watch this back yeah it happened a couple weeks ago where there was that early drama and peter was just like yeah i'm just gonna say you told me that she said this right in front of all the girls another great like peter just being he's you know i'm just gonna say what's on my mind and let you guys figure it out i'm not here to avoid the drama i'm just here to suss it out, you know, I'm just gonna say what's on my mind and let you guys figure it out. I'm not here to avoid the drama. I'm just here to suss it out, man, you know? That makes a good bachelor.

That is very true. He's allowing the drama to flourish. He's not there to stunt it, you know? And if I happen to give you a rose, Kelsey, because I wanna show you that I'm falling for you, I can't help how these women might react to you and also it's not my problem. Yeah, exactly.

I did love her reaction. She was just like, oh God, oh no, what do I do? And then when she went back, it was just so awkward. It was the most unwanted rose in the history of The Bachelor, which was so great. What I loved about that is because all those roses that you get before rose ceremony, they don't mean anything.

Because at the end of the day, you're still going to give the rose to that person. I mean, I've said that Vanessa, who I ended up with, never got a group date rose. She didn't need one. She didn't need one. I'll get you a rose to get you to next week. That's the only rose you need.

Yeah. So all the roses that put the target on your rose yeah the target roses doesn't matter they all get excited about it they all fight over it they all get pissed it's it's a rose you don't want anyway so then kelsey has a rose she doesn't want so interesting i love that okay good to know uh so yeah i know you are in a loving and happy relationship, but if you ever find yourself on The Bachelor, which I very much doubt, just don't ask for roses you don't want. Oh no. I could never be on the show, but I love watching it. I love watching it unfold. Who do you relate to most? Would you be more of a Kelsey or would you be more of a Madison?

A Kelsey. Oh my gosh, 100%. In that environment, like I would cry about something and then be called something and then be in the middle of drama within a second and then be like, how did this all happen? I don't even know what, like what happened? Like I would be like, yeah, in drama. So Kelsey goes back. She has a rose.

And again, I thought Kelsey handled herself pretty well. Pretty well. It was just, I mean, it's a very awkward thing. There's not really a right way to handle it. There isn't. And I really felt for her like showing up with a rose she doesn't want. I went and hid it in my suitcase. You can't do that.

And then said, pop it out in the rose. You know, they're going to find out. And she's just like, I'm just going to fucking do it. I'm just going to fucking do it. Yeah yeah and it actually worked out to her benefit because the pill popping thing came out which got all the attention of tammy right and then everyone went to her all these girls were like you know it's like mean girl mean girl mean girl whoa tammy we're not talking about popping pills here that's a little too far i know and everyone i thought was on tammy's side before this quite a shit and then literally within a second it was like it went from kelsey to tammy within a blink of an eye yeah that bachelor spirit smells just like blood and she's got a rose and

yeah like well kelsey's safe this week so fuck it she can't go home who can we can we kick out tammy bam target on tammy it was like yeah and then tammy's just like hold on and then she gets so defensive and angry and like yeah crazy and then we're like this is why she said that this girl had mental problems because she actually is the one that has the mental well i don't you know i don't want to say anyone has no i'm not i'm just kidding no i really don't, you know, I don't want to say anyone has a mental issue. No, I'm just kidding. No, no, no. I really don't think that. In fairness to Kelsey, I think maybe Tammy

watches it back and says, I might be just as emotional as Kelsey. I might just handle it differently. I mean, it's not fair,

quite honestly, for Tammy in any way. I mean, Tammy in one episode called Kelsey an alcoholic, a pill popper, had emotional breakdown on national television. Those are all very

big things and very crazy accusations to make about anyone and not fair for Tammy to do. Yeah, and I think it's like if she says that, then when

she gets up and starts doing what she does, it's like, you really can't judge anybody because at the end of the day, if someone pushes the right button for any of those girls, they're gonna react in a way that you can totally say, oh, they have this or they have that. And it's like, no, they just got hurt or they're emotional because you're attacking them.

It's literally fight or flight in that. You know, in that world, because you do, you feel like, you feel the eyes turn. And it's like a weird feeling to all of a sudden, you're like sitting there and you're among friends. And I've had this feeling before. You're just like, oh shit. Everyone hates me.

Everyone, what just happened? Yeah. Like what, why, what did I, what did I? What did I do? what did I do? What did I do? And then you're just like, there's this panic. You feel it. It's like, it's a real thing. And it sucks to be on.

And when you're on the other side, they smell blood. And they're just happy it's not them. Right. You know? And so they attack. So where did we leave off? I forget. Where did the episode end? Okay.

So, Tammy, everyone kind of freaks out. And then Chris Harrison comes in and says, there's not going to be a cocktail party. Thank you for reminding me. So much has happened. And then what really made me laugh was that this sweet McKenna, who we haven't really talked about, but the sweet Canadian who's been so diplomatic

the whole time like even with drama she's like I see her side and I see her side is like not happy like she is well done McKenna's been diplomatic thank you for bringing her up uh but she has been waiting to snap and I'm not waiting because she wants to but at any moment she just simply can't she's a ticking time bomb she's a time bomb and i don't mean to tease but it's my understanding that uh mckenna's job is as an influencer it's blogger yeah she's a blogger she's 22 so she's even on the younger end of a young group and she's like i just can't take it anymore i haven't slept and all i can think of is this must be really hard finally doing something yes i know i think she was just so happy to be there for so long and she was just like enjoying the whole

process and then this was the first time that she was like no bullshit i'm pissed like i've never seen her pissed like that. And so far. It was, yeah. It was a meltdown. It was the meltdown I have been waiting for. I saw the meltdown coming. You finally got to make kind of meltdown.

Yeah, what, then they, so I love those. I love how they like, they can't, every season this happens. And as if these girls have never watched and as if, I can't believe it. how it is always like whose fault is this who are we blaming the girl who just got the rose it must be kelsey's fault because kelsey going is somehow exhausted peter here's the thing as uh the bachelor bachelorette you don't want to do any cocktail party yeah because you already know at least that week for

sure yeah like you haven't gone into a cocktail party and be like oh what am i gonna do yeah you know uh you are there to like but the only nice thing about the cocktail party is for the people you do like it is the yeah you get to five more minutes or whatever but like you are just exhausted so and they do have a cocktail party anyways yeah it's just without peter which is all you really need anyways it's almost you know it's like we don't even need peter for this they're already pissed at each other yeah let's just remove peter from the equation yeah and get them to fight yeah exactly and that's exactly what they did which by the way watch tomorrow there be about a million memes of mckenna with the when she was licking her lips and doing all

she was doing so many things with her mouth even at the when he was handing out the roses which i've never seen her do so i just thought it was funny and it also went with like her ticking time bomb and it was just uh that it was always on camera and watch just i'm predicting the memes they're definitely they're out right now i'm sure uh but yes i mean and that's what's the beauty of these shows everyone who goes on they always tell themselves that's the other drama don't be involved yeah and you can't help it you get to a certain point where i'm just like i can't do this anymore. I've spent all my energy being on my best behavior and I'm about to snap. And it's happening, yes.

And she's not even thinking in that moment when she's doing all these facial expressions that she's losing her mind and her mind. Of course not. She's just like, I'm just done. She's like, what do I do? I know, I just think it's so funny. And she's in a room and she doesn't even realize

there's five cameras just fixated on her. They're like zooming in on her. She like has no idea. It's so great. And so, all right. So who gets the ax? The rose ceremony. Wait, by the way, I want to ask what a personal clothier is because that is what Kelsey is.

And we were talking about how McKenna is a blogger and her thing is professional clothier. What is that? That's what I was going to ask you. I have no idea what that means. I mean, I think they're just kind of- A stylist? Fucking around now and making shit up. 100%, but it has to be something.

It's a stylist, right? It could be a stylist or it could be like she works in retail, like at Topshop. It could be- Yeah, she works at Express. Like, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know, I just- And she helps you pick out an outfit at Express. Like, I don't know. Yeah. I don't know.

I just, I thought I'd ask you. Did she help you pick out an outfit? At Express, maybe. I don't know. We'll see. A personal clothier? Now I'll have to look it up. I thought you might know, but nevermind.

Maybe we'll get a chance to ask Kelsey if she comes on. Yes, please do. Walk me through what a personal clothier is. From Iowa. From Iowa. That's why, yeah. Could be Express. Stylist. Okay. So, um so and then deandra goes home yeah she's shocked yeah i'm not shocked i mean she's i thought she was really

nice and i thought everyone like i thought he just had way more interesting relationships with other girls it was very clear from like an outsider perspective of like, she didn't have a stronger relationship than the other girls. True. And she wasn't willing to, she stayed up. That's like, if you're not going to have a relationship with Peter, you better be willing to start some shit.

Yeah. Cause what else is going to keep you here? What else? What would you say you do here? Deandra? I mean, cause while your looks are great they only get you so far in the bachelor yeah

so she goes home wait we forgot about what did we forget no the main part that cracked me up about this rose ceremony was that there was no rose ceremony or there was no cocktail cocktail party yeah but then when Peter was about to hand out a rose the girls they have

made their own cocktail party so wait can i tell you for a second can i just tell you for a second i was like he said he didn't want one guys and there's no rules in the bachelor i've never seen that happen though before like two girls like it was like it's happened before but not i mean it seemed very like they made two's a lot right i've actually on i mean this is a long time ago this happened on andy's season a guy named cody did it and then on caitlin's season sean did it yeah yeah and and it's no it's one it does suck because like you're in the middle like the rose ceremonies suck like there's no music you know that you all hear when you're watching it it's really tense

you are very nervous and then it starts and then all of a sudden it's like excuse me and like i don't know what the analogy is but imagine getting hyped up for something yeah you know just anything you're just super hyped up for and then all this like and then you and then you have to like wait again right and then we're watching it and it might be five, 10 minutes on air. That might be a 20 minute conversation. So Tammy's talking to him for at least 10, 15 minutes. Right.

And then McKenna, I don't know, I don't remember who went first. Tammy went first. They were probably standing there for a good 45 minutes to an hour. Yeah. Just standing. Yeah.

And then what they'll do is they'll go and like give those like itms and talk about what's going on but like that was probably a it probably ended up being a very long night yeah and losing losing their shit and then mckenna was like shocked when she got back and the girls were like kind of pissed at her because she's never been the one that girls were pissed at and then when she took that time the girls were like no we are pissed at you yeah and she's like what oh no we would have rather played football again yeah loud um so anyway and then tammy and mckenna both get roses yeah they both get roses and it's not because they convinced peter to give

roses it's because because we're probably going to see a showdown between those two coming up. Anything else on this episode? My one last thing is Lexi was kind of in, I didn't really notice her a ton. She wasn't in the drama or anything, but her last comments that she made at the end were just so relatable. And I feel like I like her personality, but she went home, so it doesn't matter.

She was just giving little comments like, this is so ridiculous. Like it's just like little things that I was like, that would be me. Yeah, I mean, in that moment when you go home, there's like you kind of decompress, you immediately start thinking about how this might look. Yeah.

You become more like you're finally a little bit out of the bubble. So you're just emoting out loud. And you're like, oh no. Oh no, this was a terrible idea. I'm gonna look stupid or I feel dumb. And what you don't realize in that moment is the best thing that's ever gonna happen to you

in that world is being dumped. Yeah. That's everyone's best moment. Yeah. The winner doesn't have the luxury of being broken up with. That's everyone's best moment. The winner doesn't have the luxury of being broken up with. No one feels bad for you. Yeah, until sometimes later in a house. But not on TV. Even Aleah, right?

We kind of was like, oh, poor Aleah. She got beat up, the house attacked her. Like we don't want you here, but I feel bad. Yeah, you're right. Everyone who goes home, you feel a little bit bad for. Yeah, sometimes. There's been, I mean, there has been a lot of instances in Bachelor History where you're like, get out of here.

Like Luke, Luke P. Like Luke, yes, yes, exactly. Where you look by. But you're glad he was there. You want a great villain. Oh, 100%. Yeah. you can't get rid of them at the beginning no i mean that season was great because of luke yeah but this season honestly you can get rid of them all and there would still the two girls fighting to the death

would still have just as much drama i i would bet money on every girl in that house to create drama are you do you so like some people are saying uh i personally like like i think it's a great season it is very petty and like seems really stupid at times like but it's wild and crazy but like some people are complaining about the silliness of it all do you as a long time fan are you where do you stand i i would say like that was kind of goes back to my comment of like the drama in the house has been more at play i guess not even more interesting but like just more at the front than the relationships in my mind it feels like i'm watching um like desperate how or not desperate houseate Housewives, The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills

more than I am watching The Bachelor, which I like both shows. So I'm down to watch drama. I haven't, I've seen clips of Real Housewives through girls I've hung out with, but it does, it does seem more like that. Yeah. It's just a lot of yelling

and we're not even sure what we're yelling about i can see how people would complain about about that like i can understand but what they don't what they're not seeing is like what we've been saying peter actually being really genuine in it and that's why it's let the drama flourish is because he really really really wants to find like the right person he really wants it he's feeling he's feeling pressure about it and he's this is his way of doing it is to just kind of let it all let it all out you know as long as you cry i will keep you around yes i will not question your integrity if you show tears for me uh i get it though i mean it's i i'm not a big, I'm not a big, personally, I'm not a big fan. I mean, I cried plenty, but I'm not a huge,

crying is not my love language. But it seems to be Peter's. It seems to be Peter's. That's fine. I love that. I mean, I would have never like realized that until you said that.

So I'm going to watch out for those girls. And like, it's so hard to be the bachelor and it's so, it's, you're so, and I, you're so, and with Peter, I can only imagine this season in particular is even that much harder because there is so much going on and there is so much just getting thrown at him

that he is trying to like, sass it all out and be open to learning and that could like that can be scary for him because he's they're not telling him you know like they're not letting him know all the details so when he hears stuff from these women he's hearing it for the first time he takes it very seriously yeah he's very yeah

he just he's taking it very very seriously which I think you should but it it is funny I have not seen this much drama in a house and it does get really silly at times, but I don't think that should take away from the fact that Peter's still really like trying to find the person.

It just so happens the girls that they pick this year just are very dramatic. They are. And fun to watch. Fun to watch. And where can people find you on instagram uh what can you tell them about what you're uh what plug something okay plug something um yeah you can find me on instagram at ann winters a n e winters and also on twitter it's the same thing

although i like don't tweet at all so instagram is like my my thing the bachelor i don't tweet at all. So Instagram is like my thing. You don't tweet The Bachelor? I don't tweet, really. I'm sorry. That's fine. I'm sorry, Bachelor people. I story, I Insta story, and I Instagram. And that's about it. And they can find you on Netflix. Yeah, 13 Reasons Why.

13 Reasons Why. Out. Go back and watch. Seasons two and three. And also season four is coming out. I don't know when, but we filmed that. It's done filming. I'm filming the Orville right now with Seth MacFarlane.

You're in the Orville? Yeah. Oh, that's dope. I got a whole tour of the set in the first season. Really? Yeah. Well, they completely redid it from the first season, but it's like such a cool show. I've never done anything in this world before. It's like on, you know, it's on a spaceship. Yeah, that's so cool. So yeah, I'm doing that. I'm never done anything in this world before. It's like on, you know, it's on a spaceship.

Yeah, that's so cool. So yeah, I'm doing that. I'm a new character in this next season. So I binge watch that, which is, if you guys haven't,

it's actually It's really good. the best show. Like it's so funny and it's also serious, but it's, it's great. It's like the best show

that you can watch any episode and kind of understand it. Well, that's awesome. Congratulations on all your success and much more. So sure to follow ann and uh thank you for uh for recapping this episode with us uh well that's it guys uh thanks for for listening make sure to tune in tomorrow for heather mcdonald she joins me she's always uh fun to chat with. That's tomorrow's episode. And I think we're going to cover Wednesday's episode. It's five hours of Bachelor.

That's like. I, yeah, they do Bachelor in Paradise though for two days in a row every time. I know, it's exhausting. So I think tune back Thursday morning or Wednesday night. We'll probably do a recap of that. I'm exhausted. Thanks for of that. I'm exhausted. Thanks for having me.

I'm exhausted. We're all exhausted just like McKenna. Yes. I'm about to like cry. We're about to. We're a ticking time bomb. Thank you.

And thanks so much. And thanks for listening, guys. We will see you tomorrow.