The Viall Files - E882 - Traitors w/ Derrick, Bach w/ Alli Jo, Paige & Craig, LVP Talks James Kennedy, and Super Bowl Recap

Episode Date: February 11, 2025

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  Today we are joined by Derrick to investigate this most recent season of Traitors, and get all the Bachelor tea with Alli Jo. Also, we get into Kendrick Lamar’s Half Time Show, Craig’s take on the breakup, RHOSLC Reunion Part 3, and more!  “I do need to correct you, Nick.” OUT NOW! Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff. Available wherever you get your podcasts and YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Follow us on X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheViallFiles Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: ShipStation - Go to https://shipstation.com and use code VIALLFILES to sign up for your FREE trial. Thrive Market - Ready for a junk-free start to 2025? Head to https://thrivemarket.com/viall and get 30% off your first order, plus a FREE $60 gift! Bombas - Head over to https://bombas.com/viall and use code viall for 20% off your first purchase. Timestamps: (00:00) - Intro (01:38) - Household Headlines (33:04) - Daily Dilema (40:27) - Derrick Joins (01:06:08) - Traitors Recap (01:12:27) - Bachelor Recap (01:18:46) - Alli Jo Joins (01:27:49) - Bachelor Recap Continued (01:34:06) - Lisa Vanderpump’s Statement (01:40:47) - RHOSLC (01:54:40) - Outro Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @derricklevasseur @a.cup.of.jo_@ciaracrobinson @justinkaphillips @the_mare_bare @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell 

On the 80th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz comes an unprecedented exhibition about one of history's darkest moments. Auschwitz, not long ago, not far away, features more than 500 original objects, first-hand accounts and survivor testimonies that tell the powerful story of the Auschwitz concentration camp, its history and legacy, and the underlying conditions that allowed the Holocaust to happen on now exclusively at ROM tickets at ROM.ca. What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Vile Files Reality Recap Edition. I'm your host, Nick.

The Super Bowl happened last night. Congratulations. And I'm wearing Valentine's Day socks. Oh, man. So cute. It's Valentine's Day week. I love the little hearts. Did you know it was Valentine's Day week, honey?

Oh my gosh. I sure did. Hmm. Okay. On Friday. Sounds convincing. Did you know it was Valentine's Day week, honey? Oh my gosh, I sure did. Okay, on Friday. Sounds convincing. There'll be hugs and flowers. Hugs? You know I made you a basket, a Valentine's Day basket. And I got you flowers, but we'll be traveling

and I have to reschedule those flowers. I already ordered the flowers. I've already curated your basket, but a basket has so many different things in it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there's no basket for you. There's still time. It's just like a stacking stuffer.

Kind of, it's a Valentine's Day basket. It's like an Easter basket, Valentine's Day basket. Just go to Target. I was walking through Target the other day and the way that they have multiple aisles of the cutest little Valentine's Day gifts, and I'm like, it really is so easy. It also is so easy because Nick has a running wishlist in his notes app that

we both share access to and, and it's a link. There's no stocking stuff or ideas in there. But is there a bag perhaps that could fit in a stocking? Yeah, maybe a bag. I mean there's a pair of like shoes. Like a couple of them. A pair of earrings that could pack away easily. A pair, yeah, a pair of them.

I just wanted to give the Philadelphia Eagles a congratulatory shout out. You know, good for them. They won the Super Bowl. And I say this as someone who really hates them. I was rooting for them. I was rooting for them too. I didn't watch.

But credit to them and their fans. You know, shout out to their fans. If you're a Philadelphia Eagles fan, it really was like a dream season. You guys were the best team pretty much the whole year. So congrats to you guys. And Nick Sirianni though, honestly, if you don't know anything about the Philadelphia,

he's their coach. Hot. He's a good looking guy. Yeah. He's been known to argue with his players, argue with fans, argue with some of the coaches. He's definitely in some circles, like an easy guy to like critique. Okay, I was gonna say, cause that sounds not so hot. Some's definitely in some circles, an easy guy to critique.

Okay, I was gonna say, because that sounds not so hot. Some people thought he was gonna get fired, but I gotta say, at the end of the game, really he was presented family man. Listen, I always respect someone who has a lot of critics, who says, fuck you, the noise, and comes out on top. And he very much did, period.

Did you know that Jalen Hurts, he's the quarterback for the Eagles? He is hot. He, since not last year, but the year before, when they lost in the Super Bowl against the Chiefs, there's like a famous picture of him that went viral of him walking off the field with the like red and gold confetti like falling everywhere.

And it's him just as a loser, they lost. Yeah, not at, you know, the game. They lost the game and he's like walking off the field and he said that that photo was his, has been his wallpaper up until yesterday. On his phone? Yeah, like his motivation. That's awesome.

Mary Dislotti looked hot. I think it was like a motivation. Mary was like. He was like, damn, even when I lost, I look good. And then he was, you know, who wasn't in Abbott Elementary? Any of the chiefs. That's all I'll say about that. How do you think Taylor Swift handled Travis's, you know, loss?

Like what do you think her technique is? I think she handled it as well as she got booed. She did get booed. But I will, and Taylor's defense, I think it was, I would think it was heavily Eagles fans. So I think, I think I would think it was heavily Eagles fans. So I think- That's what it seemed like to me. I think Eagles fans were booing the Chief fans. I don't think this was like people booing Taylor Swift.

Could be wrong, but I don't think so. If Taylor Swift can sit through half of a stadium booing her and she can just sit there and take that, like I can take anything that comes my way. Totally true. So how do you think Taylor can solve Trav? Yeah, I asked you, cause you're like the one who, I have my technique with you,

and that's duct tape my mouth shut. I think you give him time, yeah. I think you, the worst thing, I never forget this, but I got in with like a first girlfriend who thought like, and she wasn't trying to console me, she was trying to irritate me. It was after the Packers lost to the Philadelphia Eagles, fourth and 22.

Oh, no. It was fourth and 22. All they had to do was stop fourth and 22 and they didn't. The Eagles won that game. And right afterwards, she was like, just hanging on to me and just thought she could make it all better. Wasn't she like, why won't you hug me?

Touch me. Why won't you hug me? Like, why am I not enough? You know? Knock time? I don't know. Cause you're not. You're not.

Cause you don't play defense. Talk 280 pound blood backpacker. If Taylor really wanted to help Travis, she would have gotten on the field cause I know she can run laps around them. You know what she does on those stadiums? I hope she doesn't go home, turn on, shake it off and say, and start dancing in the middle of the living room.

I doubt she would, but I did see the video of him walking into her suite after, and he looked so sad. He looked good though. Very handsome. There were a lot of people saying- The hair's flown. The hair's flying. I did see some funny tweets.

He actually looks better sad. You think? Yeah. Do you think Jason is sad for retiring a year too early? His brother beat him two years ago in the Super Bowl, then last year his team barely even made the playoffs and then he lost in a very kind of tragic end of the year for the Eagles.

Well sometimes people say like maybe they wouldn't have won if Jason would have been there. Like maybe everything was perfect the way that it was and throwing a little like something different. They did win by a lot. I think if I was Jason Kelce and I got to just sit back and watch my boys beat my brother, that would be really fun.

Did they ask Jason who he would be rooting for? Did he say? I'm assuming somewhere in the 5,000 questions he's been asked, he didn't say. Would it not be the Chiefs? You would think his brother, but he played his whole career with the Eagles. It's not his brother's team.

Oh, he said, I would be lying if I said, I don't want the Eagles to win. I want them to, but I also want Travis Kelsey to win. So that's a long-winded way of saying, I just want a good football game, and whoever wins, I'm gonna be happy for that guy. It wasn't really that good of a football game, it was kind of a blowout.

It was a shitty football game. We started watching, we finished Traders. But did you see the Google Pixel commercial? Which one was that one? It was when he was, the dad was like applying for a job and he was like, it was like to AI or something, like Google Pixel AI and it was like, what is the hardest job that you have ever had?

And he like explains parenting and it's like, what was the most rewarding thing you learned from that job and it's about parenting and it's like, and how have you worked as a team? And it's about parenting and it's like, what was the most rewarding thing you learned from that job? And it's about parenting and it's like, and how have you worked as a team? And it's about parenting. And it was just like so, and he had like a little girl and she like grew up and she went to college.

And he was like being able to depend on people who also depend. Well, speaking of AI commercials, really hated the Martha Stewart dancing. Dancing for sketchers. The sketchers hated that. How did Martha approve that? That was not giving grace and sophistication.

Wow. I like to think the approval was a good paycheck. Yeah, I was like, I feel like most of the commercials were AI for the Super Bowl. Terrible. Yeah. It was so gross. Some of them were just like two people face to face.

I don't even know if the Snoop Dogg, Tom Brady one, I was like, is this AI? These two people don't look like they're in the same room together. It just is like really depressing. Super Bowl commercials used to mean something. Yeah. You know what I mean? Never meant anything, but they were better.

No, do you remember that Bud Light one with the horses? With the horses? Oh, and the dog. Oh, the horses. There was a lot of good Bud Light commercials. No, that one, yeah, Bud Light always crushes. The Cindy Crawford Pepsi commercial is an all-timer. Did they have one this year, the Bud Light?

I didn't see the version. I don't know, I was trying to skip through to get two currently in the football game and Nick wouldn't allow me. I was like, the commercials used to be for everyone. I put River to bed and we pressed pause on the game when I put River to bed and then River's asleep. We're about 12 minutes behind the game. We're talking to no one.

No one's on their phone. And now they felt the need to catch up, fast forward to real time. I was like, who are we catching up with? It's just us. It's just you and I. Like, are you have a burning desire to get on Twitter? Like, and check the, she wanted to fast forward,

like skip all the commercials, skip all the plays. I wanted to be where everyone was. I felt like everyone else knew what was happening and we didn't. And who were you texting with about the game? Nobody. It was just an inner problem. You knew.

Yeah. It was triggering. Sorry. Almost as triggering as Craig's appearance on Watch What Happens Live. We don't wanna talk Kendrick Lamar's bootcut flare jeans. I loved them. Yes, let's go back.

I did not like the jeans. Am I supposed to be wearing these any year? You guys, he's five foot two. They made him look taller. He's a short guy. And that's why I said they fit his body. Okay, so this is not like a cultural, like, hey, change up, baggy pants or, you know,

we had skinny jeans, now I have to go boot cut? I wouldn't say those are baggy. That's just, that's a good tight fitting boot cut with a flare. Again, that's my concern. I've just recently transitioned into a baggy jean. Honey, I don't think Kendrick Lamar is giving us the next fashion trend.

I think he's just doing what works for him. Okay, but like artists or musical artists intend to start trends. I think that him calling out Drake like that in those jeans is the best thing that could ever happen. Like if your biggest hater wears a boot cut flare and everyone cheers for him for your demise.

It's gonna be hard for you to come back from that. It's really hard for you to come back from that. And why do we care about Drake and Lamar fighting? I mean, I know they've been fighting. Yeah, it's like one of the biggest rap beefs that have happened in eight years. And that was like a full year. His diss track won a Grammy.

He called Drake a pedophile and everyone like cheered. Drake is suing. Is Drake a pedophile? Well, allegedly. Allegedly. And according to the Grammys. And the NFL. Golden Globes.

And the Golden Globes. What was it that they sang like everybody, on the Grammys, you're right, it's the Grammys, right? Yeah, the Grammys. Everyone in the recording academy went, a minor, and they literally, during Kendrick's performance, they unmuted the audience during that line, so you could hear everyone in the stadium yell a minor.

That was a good performance. Yes. I enjoyed it. He also wore a necklace with a lowercase a. And he cheesed so hard when he said, Hey Drake. Yeah. And he brought both of his ex-girlfriends out. Yep.

I watched this performance and I was like, okay, great. And then I really thought about it. It's a lot of energy focused on Drake, to be honest. He's a true hater. He did win a Grammy. Drake tried. Drake tried.

Yeah, Drake tried. Drake tried and got demolished. But he also is suing the production company that put out the Kendrick Lamar. Isn't it his own record label, actually? It's like his record label. Yeah. He's suing them for basically being like.

Wow, that's crazy. But not Kendrick Lamar. So did he lie or not? Exactly. About what? Because he's suing, I think the record label or something for defamation or something, but he's not suing Kendrick Lamar

who actually said the things that you would be suing for. Well, it doesn't his record, I mean, you would sue. Would you not sue the person that's directly a law with the record label? Is Kendrick Lamar, I mean, I'm not a lawyer, I don't know how it works. My point is Kendrick Lamar did not lie, because you have nothing to sue him for.

Isn't he suing his label? He's suing the label for putting it out. The label is more money. For money, exactly. Okay, well Drake's hiding in Australia right now, where Kendrick is on stage at the Super Bowl, so I think we know who won. Yeah, game over.

Well, I can move on with this week now, knowing. Before we get into our next topic, don't forget to check out VyL Files Plus. You can sign up for it on VyLFiles.com or if you listen to this podcast through Apple Podcasts, you can sign up directly through that platform. Check out our pop extras every week, which is all your favorite pop culture topics we didn't get to talk about during Reality Recap or Vanderpump Recaps or our update specials, which is all your favorite updates to some of the juiciest stories on Ask Nick and Texting

Office Hours. That's all on VyL Files Plus, so check it out. It's free to sign up. You get a seven day free trial. our update specials, which is all your favorite updates to some of the juiciest stories on Ask Nick and texting office hours. That's all on VyloFiles Plus, so check it out. It's free to sign up. You get a seven day free trial. It's a lot of fun. You won't regret it. We'll see you all there. Well, Paige and Craig, Craig is also moving on,

allegedly, according to him. He doesn't want to be involved. I was very triggered by this. I was. I really feel for Craig. For those of you who don't know, Craig went on Watch What Happens Live last Thursday and was asked by Andy Cohen about his breakup with Paige, specifically asked about the accusations

that Kyle and Amanda threw Craig's way about not, quote unquote, sticking up for Paige amidst the accusations that Paige has moved on too quickly from Craig, a la allegations about cheating and things like that. And this was Craig's response. Just podcast, she was clear she never cheated physically or emotionally. Do you co-sign that? I'm just, I'm great, I don't wanna be involved.

Well you are involved. No I'm not, I got broken up with it. I'm the ex-boyfriend. I'm the ex-boyfriend now moving on with my life. I'm not gonna get sucked into the mud with them. Like her cast, like commenting on how I'm grieving and that I'm sorry that I'm not reading Reddit every day and getting on there and defending her. Like I never said you cheated. So I'm not a part of this. Amanda chimed in to say you should have defended page mental against the

cheating rumors, but instead said the dogs after her because you like sympathy. Because Paige lied on her podcast and said the breakup was mutual. I didn't tell her what to say. I got a text and she said I'm announcing it on my podcast. And then she said it was mutual, which it wasn't. I didn't know about it. She called me and told me.

And she said, yeah, that was pretty, I mean, it's been a whirlwind, but yeah, so I've been sitting in it listening to people be like, love isn't enough. Guess what, love is enough. And I hate that I'm being drug into that. If two people love each other, you'll make it work. And for all the long distance people watching,

like, we didn't want different things, she just wanted other people and that's fine. Like, she didn't want those things with me anymore. And like, I'm not mad at her for that, but I don't like this love isn't enough thing because you'll make it work. I really felt for the guy there. I agreed with everything he said

except for the love is enough part, but when Craig was in that moment, it really brought me back to having my heart broken. And I just think there's just not, I also compare this to the Rachel Kukonil and Matt James breakup of it all, and I find it to be, not surprising, but the audience's reaction to be,

again, not surprising, but polar opposites from ultimately, we just have two couples where two people broke up. One person decided they didn't wanna be in a relationship with the other person. As far as we know, there's no infidelity, no scandalous behavior. I totally get why Craig wasn't wanna jump up

and have his ex-girlfriends back, but I believe Paige. At the same time, and then the Matt James breaks up with Rachel and we're acting as if, Matt James is on his way to Africa on a one way ticket. He's been exiled from the United States because like pop culture nation and batrination are eviscerating this guy

because he didn't kind of go about it the right way. But they seemingly broke up for the exact same reasons. Like Paige broke up with Craig because she didn't see her like settling and marrying him. And Matt broke up with Rachel because he said she had qualities that he didn't see in a wife. It's the exact same thing. And it's like Matt James is vilified and he's the breaker-upper. And Craig is being vilified and he's the one who got broken up with.

And it's like, how did that happen? And I get it. We're like, we listen to Rachel and she's like, you know, he broke up with me in Japan and I got on a plane. And then the next thing you know, he's posting a prayer and everyone knows about it. And again, that was weird on Matt's part. But imagine if Rachel was like, yeah, and we broke up. And then the next thing you know,

I get a random text message from Matt being like, I'm announcing it on one of the biggest podcasts in the nation and not asking, not checking in, just saying, I'm announcing it on like one of the biggest podcasts in the nation and not asking, not checking in, just saying, I'm going to do this and then you find out Matt James like decided to like mention that it was a mutual breakup instead of the fact that he decided like instead, the truth was he was like, yeah,

I just don't think your wife material. Imagine the reaction we would all have. We would lose our fucking minds if that's what Matt James did to Rachel. I'm just saying. Well, Paige and Craig broke up Thanksgiving time. And then he wasn't ready to announce or go public with it, and she gave him the space and time.

They had been broken up for a while, and then she saw a post where he seemed single. And so then she was like, "'Okay, if he's going out looking single, like must be time to announce this. So she texted him and said that she was gonna announce it on her podcast and he didn't reply. He never responded.

I don't think Paige ended it wrong either. I mean, I guess. But I don't think that people are like vilifying Craig that much, like I think that people are vilifying both of them. And if Paige is getting enough hate that she wanted support from Craig, and I think that if they've been dating for long enough, it's like you still care about each other.

Just because it's not gonna work out doesn't mean that you didn't put in a lot of time in that relationship and have a lot of love for the person. So I just think that it's not a crazy ask to be like, hey, I'm getting kinda killed out here. I think it's a crazy ask. It's a crazy ask to be like, I, I'm getting kind of killed out here. Can you just like, it's a crazy ask to be like, I need you to fight with trolls and Reddit people for me. That is crazy.

It's an absolutely insane ask. Imagine if Matt James went to Rachel Cardonel after the breakup and said, can you like go, again, his heart is, Craig's heart is broken. Like, I don't know if you've ever heard your heart broken or everyone listening who's had their heart broken, but when your heart is broken,

when like someone that you were in your mind and with them at not too long ago, talking about a future with them, even if they were mentally checked out and you didn't even realize, and then you find out that person just doesn't wanna be with you. Listen, no one's about, hey, you gotta move on more than me

because I'm someone who struggled moving on from relationships. But I know the pain it feels when someone breaks your heart. And Craig has to do this on a national fucking platform. And for all the people out there who are critiquing his watch, what happens live performance and appearance in December when he was allegedly broken up with Paige and kind of talked as if they were still together,

if I'm in Craig's shoes when I was having my heart broken, I truly don't know how I would have handled it or what that would be like. Or like I'm not saying he handled it perfectly, but like the man had a broken heart. And then Paige breaks up with him. And again, fine. It doesn't sound like she was totally honest about like the the fact, okay, listen, I'm of the opinion, like two people break up, fine. And like, but if you're gonna break someone's heart,

then like, you don't get to be the sympathetic partner or the party, you know? You don't, you kinda are the bad guy. You are, like, I don't think Paige should be criticized, but she broke someone's heart and she had the right to break their heart. But she, like, if she's gonna go on a podcast and, like, not tell the truth, that is her spinning the narrative. On some level, she is trying to

control the narrative because she is trying to get sympathy in some way from her audience by not saying, hey, listen, I just didn't want to be with him. Like, she wasn't cold. Like, she didn't give the Matt James, hey, listen, I just don't think your wife material. She didn't go, you know, she was just't cold. Like she didn't give the Matt James, hey listen, I just don't think your wife material. She didn't go, you know, she was just like, hey, I don't wanna be with you. And she broke his heart and she has the right to do that. But like Paige decided to go out to a Philadelphia Eagles

game very publicly. When I was in a public breakup, regardless, we were both happy to be out of that relationship. And nevertheless, we still decided to like hide for a couple months and be mindful of our behavior and be mindful of how we presented in public and who we were with, because we just wanted to make it easy on ourselves

and the other person. Paige decided not to do that. And she had every right not to do that, but she doesn't get to then demand Craig to have her back online when people start critiquing and like questioning who she's hanging out with. Okay, fair that Craig doesn't need to go scour Reddit but when presented with the opportunity by Andy Cohen to squash the cheating rumors. How does he know what she's doing? I'm sorry no like

again she has a broken heart. Cheating rumors? I'm sorry. But to squash a cheating rumor is pretty easy it's basically being like no she didn't cheat on me. How does he know that? How does he know? And he also did say that he's like, I wasn't the one who said that you cheated. So therefore I am taking myself out of this. I have nothing to do with it. I'm not saying she did anything, but like he doesn't know what the fuck she's been up to.

And he feels like he was blindsided. Anytime someone blindsided with a breakup, your first question is, is there someone else? Is there another guy? Like- I mean, he said at the end of it, she didn't- first question is, is there someone else? Is there another guy? Like. I mean, he said at the end of it, she didn't. What, me? She wanted someone else.

Yeah, she wanted other people. Like, you know, I'm sure he's had thoughts of like, maybe men she's been kinda talking to. She literally had the guy from SNL, like in the fucking comments, jokin' with her about like, actually cheating. And again, we all thought it was funny because it was a guy from SNL,

but if you're Craig in that moment, your heart is torn out. It's like, I'm just saying, I know what it's like to be in Craig's shoes. I don't think Paige did anything wrong. She has the right to do whatever the fuck she wants, but to sit there and expect Craig to defend her honor I think is insanity.

Right, because you can very easily say, I'm single and I can do whatever I want. She is. It's clearly Paige is, and as she should, but like to sit there and have Kyle and Amanda, which love, you know, they're great, but like that's, and have your girls back, but like Craig has every right to feel the way he does and he has every right to just be like, that's her business. I'm no longer her life anymore. Like, do you think Paige checking in with Craig when she's out with another guy in public at a Phillies game? How's your heart, Craig? Just checking in? Like...

I mean, I don't think they owe each other anything. I don't. I don't think that Paige was asking this super huge, big thing of Craig just to like... She doesn't get to ask him anything. Nothing. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I don't disagree. But I also think that Paige has to navigate this breakup differently than Craig does because of her role, because she is a woman online. And I think that like, I don't know, I don't necessarily think that he owes her anything. But I think that when you are aware of the things that have been said about Paige, he could, and I'm not saying he has to, he could be like, you know what?

That's fucked up. Of course he could. Of course it would be the nice thing to do, but like he has to be nice. He doesn't have to be nice. That's the thing. He doesn't have to be nice. I don't think he is being- But he did.

He sat on Watch What Happens Live and he said, I never said she cheated. That is him defending her. He said, those words never came out of my mouth. I'm not involved with Reddit rumors. I'm not involved with TikTok journalists. I'm not involved with TikTok journalists. I never said that. So like take those rumors for what you will,

but I wasn't a part of them. That's him defending her in my opinion. Yeah, and I don't think he's not nice for not saying more. You know, like would he be extra nice if he went on and said like Paige would never, and she's got, you know, she's the greatest person in the world and like her character is like second to none.

That would be the nicest thing, of course, for him to say. But he's heartbroken and she's at an Eagles game with another guy. So like, it makes sense that he's. Yeah, but to suggest that he's not being nice because he's just minding his own fucking business and trying to move on because clearly this is a man who has his heart broken.

Well, and he's also not going out of his way to say terrible things about Paige. No, he's not. You know what I mean? So on the flip side, you can even say it's balanced that you have Austin making commentary on Paige. You've got Kyle and Amanda making commentary on Craig, but he's not saying anything about Paige. He has not said that she's an awful person or that she deserves any of this.

And when he did do his little story, he made it very clear that like we split, I was a little blindsided by it, but like nobody deserves any hate, please be kind to Paige, be kind to me. And like what else do you want him to say besides going on a daily PSA for his ex? Yeah. I mean like watching last week's episode of Southern Charm

when he had like the sit down with Shep in Austin and like Shep's mediating, like I really feel like I know where Craig's at in his life and I really feel for him. He's in this like transitional period, right? He is clearly outgrowing his friends. Like so Shep and Austin are two guys who still like really wanna hang on

to like all the boys get together three, four times a week, play golf, drink beers, you know, swap stories. And Craig's like, I want more, I want a family, I wanna settle down, I wanna create a family. Like this is, he Craig's like, I want more, I want a family, I want to settle down, I want to create a family. And nothing's been more enjoyable in my life than creating a family, right? So I get where Craig's coming from.

He's outgrowing his best friends in the world, he's outgrowing them, and then the person he wanted to outgrow them for decided to leave him. And again, she had every right to do that, like people break up. But like, he's 40 years old, he very much feels probably alone on an island. It's like, I'm sure he has his friends,

but that's not where he wants to be. He really wants to be with this person who didn't wanna be with him. And he's right, she didn't wanna be with him. I will say the only thing I disagree with is love is enough because it's not. there's nothing I learned more about relationships is that you do have to have a lot in common with your partner.

You have to enjoy doing things together on a regular basis. Everything can't be a compromise. Certainly not where you live, certainly not like how you raise your kids, certainly not like when you wanna start a family. Those are like what people call non-negotiables and like those break up relationships all the time. And so like I have learned the hard way,

because I used to be Craig. I used to be like, you can just muscle through love. And like you have to like get along because like relationships in general are that hard. And even when you have so much in common, tons of compromises have to be made. And if you have to compromise all the time every day about every little thing, like I'm sorry,

love just is not enough. And like, you have to have the same timelines. It's like, I think that's why me and you worked the way that we did, is because we both wanted the same things at the same time, and I think clearly we see Craig and Paige not wanting the same thing. Also, I think it's insane that people are reporting

on him and Sally being at Nobu in New York and like trying to make it a thing. It's like, it's a costar. He's out to dinner with a fucking castmate, with a coworker. Come on people. And even watching this week's episode where Paige and Craig are talking, I'm watching it with my boyfriend and he looks at me

and he's like, so who's in the wrong here? And I go, literally neither. They're both 100% right because Paige is saying, hi, I'm 31 years old. I'm not ready to have kids and be settled down. I don't see myself on a farm in Charleston. Okay, and then you've got Craig who's like, okay, well like when are you thinking?

Can I get a timeline? I'm ready to have kids. I'm nearing 40. I wanna be like active with my kids. He's in the right too for saying, I want to get married and have kids in the next two years and Paige is in the right too for saying I want to get married and have kids in the next two years and Paige is in the right for saying

I don't want those things. So like neither one of them are a bad guy in this situation. It's just unfortunate two people exactly as you said are just not on the same page. But to the person in your heart you're breaking, you are the bad guy. And you sure in every breakup, everyone wants to like, that's why they're like,

it's not you, it's me. And that's why people say shit like that because they Don't want to feel like a dick, but you are breaking someone's heart you are and then that's just a like a tough fact of life And Paige is breaking Craig's heart and maybe Matt broke Rachel's heart and like they did They're kind of the bad guy like I don't think us publicly need to vilify those people But like I do think Paige is trying to like spin it just a little bit where she doesn't, so she's not the bad guy at all. And I don't think we should vilify her,

but her saying it was a mutual breakup was kind of shirter. If you're Craig with a broken heart, that feels a certain type of way. But does it feel better for her to go on her podcast and be like, yeah, I didn't want to be with him anymore, so I broke up with him? Would that be worse for him? There's no good way.

I mean, it's the truth, but could it be argued that she was trying to spare his feelings in that moment? I do not think for a second when she made that lie she was sparing anyone's feelings but her own. Because that's people, human nature. I also can't imagine Craig sitting at home and seeing a notification being like, oh, Craig and Paige break up mutual.

And he's like, what the fuck? No, it wasn't. I didn't wanna break up with her. I love her. When you get your heart broken, oh, Craig and Paige break up mutual. And he's like, what the fuck? No, it wasn't. Like I didn't want to break up with her. I love her, you know? When you get your heart broken, yeah, you want that person to own what they did to you. And if that, what they did to you is breaking your heart, you want them to own that. He also said on Watch What Happens Live,

she made me promise not to break up weekly. And like that Uno reverse card is like wild. Like they would do like a pinky promise or something being like, promise you won't break up with me. I mean, that reverse card is. I would chalk that, They would do like a pinky promise or something being like, promise you won't break up with me. I mean. And that reverse card is. I would chalk that in the category of like, people say shit in relationships.

That's Craig being a little petty and a little heartbroken. Which, if I'm in Craig's shoes, I completely get why you said that. And if you're in Craig's shoes, you're relitigating everything that was said to you and everything that now feels like a lie. But that like. She could have meant it at the time. Yeah, sure exactly well exactly exactly like maybe it was a mutual breakup and he's just like there's no way to know like

What the actual truth is cuz he he could have misremembered their conversation She could be misremembering their conversation like she could not be doing this intentionally Like I'm gonna lie and make myself look better. It could just be that her perception of the breakup was that it was mutual because they were on different pages. That's insane, Lea. This conversation. Why? You-

Why? That's, you think Paige just misremembered and thought her breakup with Craig was mutual? Lea's saying to Paige it was mutual. Like to Paige- Yeah, maybe to Paige's perception was that it was a mutual breakup and that they were on... That would be like if someone cheated. I mean like well I thought I had a hall pass. It's only mutual if they both come together and they both are like we shouldn't be together. The man went on Watch What Happens Live knowing he was broken up, claiming that they had Christmas plans together. Because he didn't know what to say. This was a mutual breakup.

So who's the liar in this situation? They both have, you're comparing someone who didn't want to be in a relationship, who decided to leave the relationship, who decided to go on her podcast and announce the breakup, and then compared to someone who was going through a broken fucking heart, decided to fulfill his Watch What what happens live appearance shortly after

his girlfriend broke up with him out of nowhere. And then because he didn't have a plan to talk about it publicly, you want to call him a liar and compare that to Paige? It's also like, I love Paige, I love Craig, I loved them together, clearly they weren't gonna work, but it's like. I love Paige too, but let's be realistic here. A breakup is never, it's always gonna be messy. Like no matter what, it's always gonna be messy.

Like no matter what, it's always gonna be messy. Someone's gonna feel hurt and someone's gonna feel bad. So it's like. When there's no like kids marriage kind of thing in there where it's like you have a reason to mutually break up, most likely in a relationship, there's one person who has one foot out the door and one person who has no idea.

Yeah, yeah. But I'm just saying, for the internet to be so one-sided about Rachel Kerkhanna and Matt James, and then to be like on the fence about Paige and Craig and like some people taking Paige's side. People break up. People, it's like, it's- Yeah, people break up.

It's a relationship where they've moved on and no one really did anything that wrong and like maybe didn't have the best approach to ending a relationship because there's no good approach. People break up, I think. I wanna be clear, I'm not calling Craig a liar. Not calling Craig a liar, just trying to add a little bit of devil's advocate here

where it's like we were not there when they broke up and so we don't know all the intricacies and the details and they could have different perceptions of how it went down and still be both speaking their truths and neither one of them could be lying. They could just have different perceptions of how it went down and still be both speaking their truths and neither one of them could be lying. They could just have different perceptions of how it went down. If Paige in fact said,

cause I didn't listen to that episode, it was a mutual breakup. I mean, listen, I get you're right. I wasn't there. I guess Craig could be lying through his teeth, but I'm going to go ahead and believe Craig on this one. Misremember. I'm just saying if it was mutual,

then I'm sure we would have gotten some lame black screen, white texts on both one. Misremember. I'm just saying if it was mutual, then I'm sure we would have gotten some lame black screen white text on both pages. There's not one person rushing out to put the statement out on a podcast and one person refusing to talk about it. If it's mutual, then it's like, this is all right. We're done here. But for it not to be mutual, it's

like one of us has to heal a little bit before we announce to the world. So let's tread lightly for a few weeks. Southern Charm also did pick up cameras we saw in the teaser, which is giving drama caught off guard blindsided. 100%. Truly they love a pickup camera, which we got a teaser that. No, they're just like after like this week scene with Paige and Craig, you know, he

just, he just wants a family. Paige gives the word family gives her the egg. She wants nothing to do with it. She's not ready. And that's totally fine. Totally fine. But like these two, you know, that's where I am very much team Paige

for like seeing what I think a lot of us have seen and what Craig is struggling to see. And he's just like, I love this person and it should be enough. And I hope for Craig that he like sees, you know, why Craig made the decision. Cause I, you know, listen, I'm not here to tell Craig, I'm not here to tell Craig who he should be in a relationship with. And if I'm Craig, I don't want to hear me say things like, I don't, you know, I nothing,

when you have a broken heart, you don't want to hear like reasonable people being like, I just don't know if you two were a fit. Like, you don't want to hear that. But I do hope for Craig that he sees what we see after he heals. And like, I just, Paige was gonna fight the life he wanted to live for maybe forever. I just don't think she wants what he wants. I don't think she wants it in South Carolina.

Should we get into our daily dilemma? Let's do it. Are you fucking kidding me? I'm losing my mind. The daily dilemma is a TikTok couple reveals a twist in their sleeping arrangements and why they no longer share a bed. The husband revealed he's been sleeping

in their walk-in closet for a month and noted he dragged the guest bedroom mattress into the closet. He says, my wife's not a huge fan of this arrangement, obviously. He clarified that the arrangement is temporary and shared that it was something I had to do just to prioritize my mental health.

I was not okay, he continued. I was really struggling and I was feeling awful so that's why I'm here. He also opened up about his constant battle with ADHD and anxiety and noted that was part of the reason why he chose to sleep in the closet. His wife said, I'm a lonely girl, say what you want but I'm codependent and I hated being alone at night.

She also added that it's been hard to go into the closet now since there's a queen size mattress in there. He also explained that he saw his parents sleep separately growing up because they both had sleep problems and know that it had nothing to do with the health of their marriage. How would you feel if I was like yeah? Hate, absolutely love. Like there's two things that I have problems with. And if you've quoted mental health.

There's two things I have problems with. I don't help your mental health. Getting in at night and like cuddling, rubbing feet, touching in some sort of way with your partner doesn't like ease your mental health. You have to go sleep in the cold closet surrounded by stinky smelly shoes and the dirty laundry basket to like feel at ease. That's your oasis.

Yeah. That's crazy. Sierra, I know you're fucking different because you're crazy. Yep. You want, you're team this guy? I get it. Listen, if it's affecting your mental health, first of all, second of all,

that I'm like, depending upon, I don't know exactly why this person- Like fainting at 17? No, my thing is like, for example- That's problem number one. My thing, for example, is that I'm like, in the morning, I get up early, right? And I like all of my stuff, obviously, in the room.

If Connor wants to sleep in, you go sleep in the other room because I'm getting ready. This is fucking with my mental health now because I'm tiptoeing around you trying to not wake daddy while I'm trying to get ready to go to work and you can sleep. That's a morning routine problem. Yeah, but I'm saying-

That's not a going to bed and snuggling with your partner all night long problem. Give me the full bed so I can starfish and sleep like a fucking queen. Period. And then I'll see you in the morning. Good morning, kiss, bye. I mean, the fact that he's able to get on his podcast

and publicly say that like him and his wife be like, yeah, I have to sleep in the closet because my mental health is not good. But my question is this kind of a spectacle because I'm like, you drug the mattress from the guest room to the closet. It seems a bit dramatic. But I'm also like, why wouldn't you just sleep

in the guest room or does he still want to be near her by the closet? Yeah, that's what it's giving. What happens when him sleeping in the closet and pulling the queen size mattress off the guest bedroom, making a mess and fucking with their closet. What happens when that affects her mental health? Oh my god, so true.

Exposure therapy. Or the fact that he's not in bed with her affect her mental health. I think it's like- Like, Danny's on tour right now and I'm a mess. Can we just, have we gotten to the point where you need to, can we just invoke mental health? When does your mental health become more important

than my mental health and what happens when? Reverse uno mental card. It's like, I need a Valentine's Day basket for your mental health become more my part than my mental health and what happens when? reverse uno mental Valentine's Day basket for my mental health. Yeah, and I need to not give her one for mine Wow If you want to sleep in separate beds sleep in separate beds No one really cares, but like if one person isn't happy about it, maybe that's a private conversation you should have and you should not go on your podcast and talk about it. I do think it's also hard when you have,

I do think it's also hard when you have small children, obviously, the only time we really get to connect with each other is when River's asleep and it's time for us to go to bed and we get in the bed together and we get to be by by ourselves and watch a show and cuddle and this and that, you know, and it's like they're not able to do that because he's snoring with the shoes. Yeah. It's crazy.

Maybe clothes bring him comfort. Also in the Dick Van Dyke show, Mary Tyler Moore and Dick Van Dyke slept in separate beds. And guess what? That was a couple that had sauce. Also my question, if she wants to sleep In the 1940s. In the closet with you. It was also illegal to have them on beds in the television.

Ah, all right, well sleep with your partners, people. Or don't. Or don't. But don't sleep in the closet next to them and claim mental health. Do what you want. Well, I know it's good for my mental health talking to recently eliminated Faithfuls on

the show, Traders. And up next, we have most recently deleted Faithful himself, Derek, to give us the inside tea of everything that went down in the castle. And the recently deleted or the deleted deleted? Huh? I love that. The deleted deleted. The deleted deleted?

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Derrick! What's going on buddy? How's it going guys? What's going on? Not much man. Sad to see you voted out of the castle, man, or killed or... Coming to you from heaven. That's what it looks like?

Is there a box that says homicide back there? Yeah. So, we do a show twice a week. This is all actual stuff from when I was a detective, all my case files and stuff. Okay. Are you still a cop? No, I own a private investigative firm here in Rhode Island. And so I've been licensed PI since 2017.

But now just a podcaster like everybody else. Well, thank you for the service you gave in your time of service. My brother's a cop too. So I just want to give a shout out to... Oh, awesome. Where's he at? He's in Wisconsin. Wisconsin.

Yeah. It's funny. Are we recording right now? Are we going? We are, yeah, we are. So little funny story, Nick, when I saw you on the list today, I was like a last minute yes for traders and the logistics weren't gonna work out at first and then they did. So I was in Nashville

and I was getting ready to fly to Scotland and your name was one of the names that was prominent as far as who was gonna be on the show. And so I knew you from the bachelor, but I didn't know a lot about you, but I was like, all right, let me start learning about these people I may be playing against. So I remember looking you up

and finding out you're from Wisconsin that you had recently gotten married. Your wife's name is Joy. Natalie. Your daughter's name, Natalie, your daughter's name's River. Yes. Am I got that right? Yes.

Okay, and I don't know if I can say it, but your daughter's birthday is River. Yes. Am I got that right at least? Yes. Okay, and I don't know if I can say it, but your daughter's birthday is the day before mine, which is why I remembered it. Can I say the date? Yeah, you can. Yeah, everyone knows. February 2nd. Yeah.

Yes. Mine's February 3rd. So that's why I remembered it. My siblings is February 3rd, yeah. And so I was kind of developing a case file on you without you even knowing it, by the way. Oh yeah. And you developed it for this episode. I was kind of developing a case file on you without you even knowing

And you developed it for this Did you go in intimidated that I might be there or you thought you were gonna absolutely Absolutely gonna crush me. No in fairness you do this all day. You talked to all different types of personalities So I was like this dude's gonna be awesome at this game And I wanted to work with certain people who had those types of traits that would be good in a game like this so honestly I could have used you. Oh yeah sorry. I went for Dylan it didn't work out that way he was already in Rob's pocket. Yeah truly he turned on you pretty quick. Watching it back Dylan really seems like he's you know doing very well it really feels like

this week was really interesting because he really like you said is in Rob's pocket. was really interesting because he really, like you said, is in Rob's pocket. I wonder, do you think there's any world in which Dylan has suspected that Rob has been a traitor the whole time, but instead of going for it, he decided to get on his good side? Or no, you think he's not quite at that level?

We're all cool now, so obviously we've had a chance to talk since the show. Okay, all right. He was never gonna turn on Rob. I don't think, I think after the Bob the Drag Queen vote, he was just completely enamored by that combination. And no, he did not know Rob was a traitor. Okay.

If you think about it, Dylan was playing an aggressive game like me. When he figured out Bob the Drag Queen was a traitor, he went after him even when no one else was. Because Rob helped get him over the edge, he just felt a loyalty towards him. And I do think he was truly disappointed when he found out Rob was a trader, not because he had betrayed his trust, but because then he realized he was someone who was protecting him. So no, I love Dylan, but no, he was, he was hot on Gabby's trails at that point. That's actually not a throwaway vote. There was a lot of conversations there where Dylan truly thought Gabby was a

trader and he was, he was trying to have another Bob the drag queen moment. Ah, that makes sense. Cause it was like, yeah, he's usually been on top of things, but the Gabby vote felt like kind of like out of pocket. Nah, he was telling me like, I think Gabby's a trader. I'm like, I don't know, man. I don't know. I mean, I gotta assume you weren't shocked to find out that you got

murdered when you did just because you were on Rob's trail so So, so well, when you went to bed that night, you're like, I'm probably get killed, but like, this is my chance of not getting killed. What were you hoping that was going to go down instead of you being murdered? So when, when Brittany approaches me after the round table, I'm thinking she's also a trader cause she's protecting, she's protecting Rob. So my hope was that for some reason they're going to be stupid enough to keep me. And so what I wanted to do was get rid of one of Rob's votes. And that was Brittany.

So by calling Brittany out publicly and telling Dylan that my hope was that if I survived, Brittany wouldn't be able to defend Rob at the next round table because she would be defending herself. And so I was hoping I would be there to witness that. Um, and it ultimately did work out, but just at my demise. But listen, you know, I knew that Rob had two choices and both of them sucked. The first choice was to keep me in the game and go at, you know, toe to toe with me again at the round table. I don't think that would have worked out well for him, but who knows? Um, the second option was to leave me in the game and basically convince

the rest of the cast or get rid of me and then convince the rest of the cast that oh hey you know they're framing me and I think that's the route he went with I think he had more trust in the faithful getting it wrong than me not going after him again. Obviously it didn't work out but if it did he would have just grew that legendary status. I mean I thought there is no way he was going to get out of it and he didn't. So there's that, but like he did make a very convincing argument where I thought, I really thought people were going to like, maybe go the Brittany direction. Cause you're right.

It was he, he got ahead of it early. He tried to spin it early where he's like immediately as, uh, people found out that you got killed, he started like kind of shouting out of being framed, I'm being framed. Like he had a plan and he was already executing that plan. And it sounds like this many weeks in, you're thinking, yeah, why would a traitor kill the most obvious person?

And it's, you know, Bob, if it's Bob, he wouldn't be smart, he would be smart enough not to kill the most obvious person. So he really was thinking multiple steps ahead. It was, but I mean, when Tom Sando really was thinking, uh, multiple steps ahead. It was, uh, but I mean, when Tom Sandoval has you pegged, you're cooked. Yeah. Yeah. That's the point. I do think, I do think, you know, you know how these shows go. I think as soon as I didn't walk in, that was it for Rob. I think Lala could have gotten Rob out that night. Honestly. Um, it, he was a dead man walking and he, you know, I think he might've

even knew that Rob's a methodical player. He's very analytical in what he does, but you did see a little bit where in that turret, he's like, I want my revenge. That's not Rob, you know, but ultimately he wanted to get me out. I think he was a little surprised by me coming out like that. And I think he figured, Hey, I may not get out of this alive, but neither are you. And I respect that to East coast guys. I love the way we went. It was, I mean, certainly Rob, you know, in both of you guys, like major Mark and Rob, as much as we've talked about the past few weeks of like him.

You know, being legendary Rob, he definitely kind of burned out pretty quickly, you know, like kind of to he definitely kind of burned out pretty quickly, you know, like kind of to your point, it's like his moves were good, but they weren't so good that like, you know, there's a lot of people left and he's already gone. So like, and he had the protection. Hey, I'm gone too, Nick. Trader though.

You know what I'm saying? Don't wouldn't you agree that traders have an advantage? Like there's a huge advantage if you're a trader, the best analogy to make, I've been saying it all day, is imagine playing chess against someone and the object of the game is to put your pieces in place where by the time your opponent figures it out, it's too late, it's checkmate. Well, with traders, I'm playing against the trader,

I'm making my moves, and the minute they figure out that I got the edge on them, all they have to do is hit the big red button and my game's over. It's like, it's like it's really difficult yeah I mean listen Rob's a legend Wes is a legend and to be transparent with you guys when I came in in the cage I almost felt like a case of imposter syndrome because this was my second show so I'm like why am I up here with these guys I don't deserve it they've been doing

this since I was in high school and you know, I was a little intimidated at first but um Ultimately, I found my ground and I think I held my own and I mean I thought I gave a pretty compelling argument I basically said exactly what happened Including his friggin origin story on how he became a traitor and people were like good story, bro Still voting for West cuz he's me West definitely fucked you over with the whole like I'm coming for you Like if he hadn't said any of that it would have been Rob that night Okay

As soon as he said it there was an audible gasp in the in the roundtable and you just saw it like as pale Was I am like all color went out of my face? Those are the variables. I didn't anticipate I didn't anticipate Wes reacting the way he did but in fairness to him I don't think he thought he was gonna have to counter that argument of being aggressive and Secondly Carolyn and Danielle were currently in a fight, which I was unaware of So Carolyn voted for Danielle instead of Rob, which she did the next night. So those are the variables you can't control I was one vote away from a tie. What could have been?

See, I think Wes beat himself. And I think, listen, you got killed by Rob. Rob had the advantages of a traitor. You could argue that Rob beat himself and Wes beat himself as well. I mean, I get it. Like Wes has accomplished a lot. I never watched the challenge,

but like isn't part of game playing knowing your audience? You came in starting this interview doing some research on me thinking I was gonna go on the show. I don't think people from Housewives or Bachelor Nation or whatever franchise, give a fuck about how many shows Wes won on the challenge. And it seemed like Wes kinda felt like that was something everyone needed to respect. Even Wes was like to the other people,

like I don't know who you are. They don't know who you are either, Wes. Like there's a lot of people who, everyone's narcissistic on this show in their own world. Everyone kinda comes in thinking they're the man. And I feel like Wes coming in with this like, I've won more than everyone else, was to his detriment.

You know, like he should have gone a lot farther than he did. And I felt like you kind of got, you were the sacrificial lamb trying to play it smart, having West supposed to be an ally. He can't like keep his cool. He's like mouthing off to a bunch of ladies. Don't give a fuck who he is making threats. And then like, you kind of got screwed trying to like

hold your own and like playing it right. I don't know. How did you see it? I'm a girl dad. I'm right there. I got two girls, 12 and nine. And I was like, don't take a rocket scientist to figure out this isn't going to go well for you right now. But literally as I was putting my vote up, you know, they cut a lot out. But I was like, well, Wes, you're going home tonight and I'm probably

getting murdered tomorrow, but it was fun. And then I put it in there because I knew, I knew the way he reacted in the way they responded to it. Logic was out the window and I tried to bring it back home by being like, guys, I get it, but let's not be dumb and vote for the guy that we don't like over the person who is clearly the trader. And they were just like, yeah, we're not having it. And in their defense, I think, well, Dylan, I didn't realize would

never have voted for Rob. I didn't realize Brittany was as, as, you know, positive on Rob as she was until that day. But overall, I think regardless, their thought process was, we don't like Wes. So either way, it's a win to get him out. And if he's not the traitor, we'll vote out Rob tomorrow. How happy were you watching this episode back knowing you didn't have to go through the bugs? Or were you like, that would have been fun. I mean, listen, I was having so much fun out there. Nick, if you,

I'm sure you're going to get the call. It's do it. It was the best show I've ever done. I've only done two shows, which is not saying a lot, but it was so much fun. That's the only thing that the only regret I have is that I didn't get to play longer because production is great. The staff is great. The competitions were great. The place where we were filming is beautiful. So I was bummed watching it. I'm going to have FOMO for the rest of the season.

I don't regret my move. If anything, I made the move too late, but I do regret the fact that I don't get to experience the things that they're getting to experience now. So that's bittersweet. It looks like a lot of fun. And our boy Wells, obviously, was the first out and he was he's bummed about that and that's that is the challenge about that that show though It's just like made no sense going for wells, by the way, but I It made no sense whether you're a former cop or you're Rob or you're Wes the thing about what's fascinating about this show

What makes it so fun is? You can be a great game player, but there's still a lot, there's a lot of elements that you can't control and the unpredictability, the fact that people do go for their friends. The people, they go off of vibes and things like that. To kind of your point, it only does you so good to be a former cop and to disagree with me

if you want, Derek. Almost like Wes is about, Wes was playing like he was in a room full of people in the challenge, you know, and instead of adapting to being a room full of some people in the challenge, some people like who are gamers, some people who are housewives, some people, you know, and you have to adapt to a game player like Rochelle who's gonna like go off vibes, you know,

and you have to anticipate shit like that. And Wes was this like, it couldn it could it wasn't registering with Wes. Like, to me, that makes him less legendary than he says he is because he wasn't adapting to his environment. West on the show yet? No, he he was too busy for another show. I'll bring him back. Oh, so that's where this is coming from.

Now, that's my honest opinion. But like, I would love toing them on to defend himself. But, uh, I don't know. Do you see it? Do you see it differently? Do you see it differently? I mean, listen, listen, you know, the thing is you don't have a lot of time during the day to talk to each other.

You really don't. And I didn't, I S I saw West for what it was. He realized they were on a tight, a tight time window. We needed people to talk and nobody was really giving anything. Like Sam and I were one night are saying, Rob, I think you're a traitor. I'm coming for you. And the next night they're voting for West. They just, it's hard when you're playing with people who don't necessarily do

these games all the time, but yeah, to your point, I think, I think West didn't maybe read the room correctly in that moment. He said to me that he made a joke that just didn't land. That was a joke. That was his humor. But like you had said, they don't made a joke that just didn't land. That was a joke. That was his humor. But like you had said, they don't know him, but I will say this. Wes is his thought processes.

I'm there to make a good TV show. That's why I keep getting cast on these shows. And in his defense, between him and Rob, to go back to my point earlier, they've been on like 20, 30 shows together. I've been on two and I won my first show. So, you know, I guess it depends on what your goals are if You're trying to get cast on the next show Probably the right move in the character that he's playing But if you're trying to win this particular game, maybe not the right decision

You talked about having two girls are they watching traitors or do they think you're so uncool? My oldest daughter 12, so I'm just starting not to be cool with her. But they love Dylan Efron. Oh, of course. So I had I had a big I had a big premiere party. I let her invite all her friends. I was suddenly cool again. And the only troubling part was my daughter, who was like the sweet, innocent little tenly, like never really gave me any indication she likes boys.

And she's like, Dad, can you do me a favor? The girls were wondering if you could FaceTime Dylan real quick. And I was like, sure. No problem. I FaceTime them and no joke. It was like rabid dogs for a piece of meat, including my daughter. And I'm like, Tenley, I like, I almost had to kick her away from the phone. I'm like, all right, Dylan, I hate you.

Bye. I gotta go. But yeah, no, I'm suddenly cool again for at least the next six months. That's great, man. Scary, scary, but great. Nick, get ready for it, man. It was the most disturbing thing I've ever seen in my life. The way she acted in that moment, I was like,

oh my God, she's never leaving the house again. That's crazy. Speaking of Dylan, how do you think he navigates out of this kind of loyalty to Rob now that he, you know, Rob is out, he's been revealed as a traitor, he's kind of positioned himself as like an ally of Rob. He's not the only one, but how do you think he navigates out of that? This is the best thing that could happen for him. His biggest downfall was his blind spot to Rob, kind of similar with me with Danielle.

And him not having Rob in the game no more is gonna open up paths for him because initially when I gave him the shield, I had a lot of hope for his potential and he was so skewed by Rob that he started to lose his sight of what he should be focusing on and that intuition kind of escaped him a little bit and my hope going forward is now he reels it back in realizes he's there for himself people view him as a faithful. And so hopefully he can ride that wave and get back on track because although we're only halfway a little bit more than halfway through, there's not a lot of game to play left. So you got what three, four episodes. So now's the time you got to start getting those traders out or they're going to win with Danielle. Danielle's

been really confusing, I think for viewers to watch because it seems like she's not a very good trader. Did you suspect Danielle at all during your time in the castle and like what was your reaction to seeing her in tears? To your departure. Yeah, me and Danielle been close for ten years and I always wanted to play a show with her She's the best big brother player to not win. And so we had a personal relationship We had a lot of and Nick knows us. we had a lot of conversations off camera that are much more personally connected and not about the game that you remember when you're playing. And so she got me in the blind spot there. And I will say this in Danielle's defense, there's a reason nobody's saying her name

at the round table. Yes, we were suspicious of her, especially me and Brittany after the Riddle competition. But I got distracted by Brittany's behavior in defense of Rob because I was certain about Rob. And that threw me off Danielle's trail. But she's playing a pretty good game. She hasn't been mentioned yet. Yes, she's emotional, but she's been consistent in that emotional display that she put on.

She's constantly crying over everything. So to the point, we were all kind of perceiving it as, she just, this game is too much for her. She's constantly crying over everything. So to the point we were all kind of perceiving it as She just this game is too much for her. She's paranoid, right? Um, but overall she's still there Um, she got rid of rob. I think it was a great move Giving me up for rob to lower his guard to then just vote for him again, right? I mean, it's a good move So I know she's getting a tough edit and people are like, it's so obvious she's a traitor, but you guys have the privilege of knowing who the traitor is.

Yeah, it makes, like you said, it makes no difference to me, like as a viewer, like what, how obvious we think it is, because well, and maybe I know this because I know things are edited, but to your point, like no one in the house is suspecting her. So if anyone should be criticizing anyone,

it should be the other people in the house, not the traitor who clearly in the house is suspecting her. So if anyone should be criticizing anyone, it should be the other people in the house, not the trader who clearly in the moment is like giving faithful to everyone, like she is, she's playing the best game, you know, because like no one's, no one's bringing her up. No one. You still have Tom Sandoval and Dolores going at each other. Yeah. And you had, you had Jeremy who was onto her and he

was one that I'm very close with. He's my favorite survivor player. So him saying it stuck in my head as well when he said it and then got murdered, I was like, that's not good. But I would have to be transparent now that I'm out. Like I don't think I ever would have went after her. And even at the end, I don't know if I would have had the balls to cut her because let's be honest, you guys know this. It's about the journey, not the destination with traders. Nobody's like, who's going to win the $250,000? It's more about like, how are they going to get there? What's going to happen in the meantime?

So I don't know what I would have done, but I will say one of my biggest weaknesses in that game was my friendship with Danielle, for sure. But I love her. I have no ill will toward her or anybody else for that matter. All-star traders, you would go back for another run if you were offered, I'm assuming? Yeah, I mean, it was a great experience. I would go back. Here's the thing,

and you might even have more insight on this. And I'd actually like your opinion on it because I feel like this show is blowing up so much that it's kind of becoming like the next Dancing with the Stars. And the pool of people that they're gonna be be able to pull from is going to be so vast. I think the nobodies like me, the fact that I got one shot in there is like, I better

just be happy with that. I feel like it's getting big now. I think you're selling yourself a lot short, Derek. I think one, I think yes, it's gotten more successful. I think, you know, from season one to season three, yeah, it's I think it's a little easier for casting than it was maybe the first two seasons where they, you know, they probably, they probably got a lot of nos and, you know, people weren't sure what it was. But like every season, the gamers of the gamers have very much carried the show. I think the Housewives or Bachelor people,

like Dylan, they pick up on it as they get along, but I think the strategy is what a lot of people are enjoying about this show, and I think to make it work, you almost need the gamers, the Big Brother people, the survivors, the challenge people, because I think they almost in a way train the Dylans of the world about how to play the game.

And I think that's always important. I think there's an element there. And I think the reality TV space is always gonna dominate Traders. I think even Dylan is kind of technically reality TV because he did the show with his brother. But I don't think they're gonna start pulling in like working actors and musicians and things like that.

I think this works for traders. It's obviously Bravo's has a strong, you know, it's cross promotional. So I think they're gonna stay in this lane. And I still think they're gonna be pulling from gamers, even if it's like, you know, for the people who don't watch Big Brother or don't watch Survivor, you know, you're learning a lot about these people. But I think they're too important to this show's like the wheel, the gears turning, I don't know. I think if you just had a bunch of Housewives and a bunch of like Vanderpump people and a couple of Bachelor people

and they're like play traders, you know. It'd be harder to get going. Yeah, it wouldn't be as like the, I'll tell you why, Derek, because like, for example, the Bachelor people, a lot of them are coming off going on the Bachelor show and like there's a lot of brainwashing that goes on where it's just like, are you fucking here

for the right reasons? You better be here for the right reasons. You better not, in Bachelor world, to quote unquote steal someone is the worst thing you can do. So I think there's a lot of trauma, honestly, from people who have only done the Bachelor franchise. So the idea of being a traitor or a villain or killing someone or lying to your friend, I think I've heard a lot of people say from people who have only done the Bachelor franchise,

so the idea of being a traitor or a villain or killing someone or lying to your friend, they're so uncomfortable with that being recorded and being used for TV because they're so used to being that weaponized against them that you truly would need gamers like yourself being like, guys, it's a fucking game. You can chill out, we're here to play and have them relax

because honestly you would get a lot of reality TV stars who are too afraid to do shit. You ain't wrong. And that was part of the concept in there where you have to quickly figure out people's motives for being there. As you alluded to, and without saying names, there are people that their metric for success on Traders is

how long can I last? Yeah. Like how much airtime can I get? How long can I go on the show where people like, you know, Rob and myself, and we're playing the game. If I go home, I go home, but I'm playing, you brought me here to catch a killer. That's what I'm going to do. And if I go home early, that's fine. But yeah, you're right.

We're, we're, we're putting more of a strategic element to the game. And I could see there were certain people that didn't give a shit who went home as long as it wasn't them and that that can be if it's all people like that and everyone's doing throwaway votes It could actually hurt the show. So you you make a valid point. Yeah. Yeah be throw in on people Just like they only they want to stay there. They also want to be likable They want to be you know, they want to be the popular one They're like, yeah, there's a lot of motivated motives in that, in that round table, so to speak, that aren't like making the show as good as it possibly can.

And I think the gamers will always be welcomed at the table for that reason. Hey, listen, I'm not mad about it from your lips to God's ears. I hope I get the chance to play again. I, it was a great experience. I was my first time playing a show in 10 years. You've done the reality TV thing. It's not always a positive experience, but the behind the scenes, the mental health aspect of it,

I was fucked up after Big Brother. I was in there almost a hundred days and I was an undercover detective for four years and that was harder. And so having people behind the scenes calling you every week, even as the show's airing to be like, Hey, how you doing? What'd you think? Are you cool? Is anything you need to talk about? They have doctors on staffing to be like, hey, how you doing? What'd you think? Are you cool? Anything you need to talk about they have doctors on stuff. I was like, wow This is definitely different than past experiences and for those reasons. I would do it again. That's awesome. Derek, man Sounds like you had a great time really fun to hear your POV about the experience Anything else you want to share before we let you go? No, man. I'm just enjoyed it Thanks for having me on.

And if I ever get to see you in there, don't be a traitor, don't kill me. All right, well, if I ever go on, I'll be reaching out to you for some advice. I appreciate it, buddy. Love that, love that. Thanks for having me, guys. All right, take care, guys.

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Derek's a nice guy. He's so nice. So sweet. That's so cool that he like does his research on people to try to just like get to know them before he goes on. That's a smart. No, I know. But it was like sweet that he remembered all that. That's like a gamer versus just like a reality star because it's giving Jax when he went on House of Villains and his reps were like, to win the game, you should do your research on who else is going in.

And he did zero. Then it was like, I had no idea that they would behave this way. And it's like, well, if you would have just watched a clip. What is the premise of House of Villains? It's just all of the worst people from reality TV living under a house and doing. I mean, I know Jax is a horrible human being, but are they all horrible people? Just like the worst characters.

Like, I love New York. Some of the villains are iconic. For sure. I mean, Candy Muse. But I'm like, even then, the whole point is that they had the worst edit or they were the worst person on their season of their show. Candy Muse just got a bad edit.

And they what? And then they do what? They compete, then they vote each other out, and then it's like somebody wins. House of Villain. I haven't had heebie-jeebies that bad in a long time. I mean, watching all of those bugs. Yeah. I mean, I think I still feel one in my ear. But the question is, how far would you make it? Are you a Chrishell? I think I could have done in my ear. But the question is, how far would you make it? Are you a Crichelle? I think I could have done, no. A Sierra?

Well, I don't know. Crichelle, honestly, I related to that, but I feel like I could have, if I had someone who was really gripping my hand, I feel like I could have gotten past the scorpions, but then once those bugs dropped on my fucking head. No. Tom's hat, the way they just all went on Tom's hat.

Thank God Sierra had a veil because they were all on that veil instead of like crawling on her neck. But how far would you have gone? You had heebie-jeebies. It would have been tough. Would you have kept your eyes closed when they were putting like the millipede

and the scorpions on your hands? Let me just say that I thought Dylan looked really hot. Oh. Being as calm as he was. Say more. I was really jealous of like, I wish I could say that I would have been Dylan in this moment, just kind of being like, as he was. I was really jealous of like, I wish I could say that I would have been Dylan in this moment, just kind of being like, this is fun.

Sam was too. Sam was pretty manly. I love this. Rob was pretty manly. Rob talking Sierra through it. Yeah, that was pretty great. I would have been somewhere between Tom Sandoval and Dylan.

Tom Sandoval was cracking me up every time. He's like, yeah, okay, yeah, sure, why not? You guys, I have to be honest, Sandoval kind Dylan. Tom Sandoval was cracking me up every time. He's like, yeah, okay, yeah, sure, why not? You guys, I have to be honest, Sandoval kind of won me over. He was so... I'm telling you guys, he's a flawed man, but he is not horrible. He is not without...

He is there to be a court jester. He is not without a charming character. He's not a... His reactions were perfect, I will say. Does it mean that he was the one who got Rob out? He did. He did. And Dylan was like, I trust say. It worked. He was the one who got Rob out. He did. He did. He did.

And Dylan was like, I trust Tom Sandoval. You could tell in Dylan, when he paired up with him, he was like, he kind of like shrugged, was like, hate me America. I don't know what to tell you. And then Tom was like, someone likes me. But you know why? Because I guarantee you, Dylan looks at Tom Sandoval,

I know exactly who you are. I know exactly what I'm working with. I know what not to ask you. I know what to I'm working with. I know what not to ask you. I know what to ask you. And now I know, now I trust you. And that's all Tom Sandoval is. He felt so good after he got robbed out and everyone was like, good job, Tom.

He was like, I finally have respect. When he walked the trailer for the next episode, when he walks up to what? It's like the, they're gonna kill someone face to face. When he walked, he was like, you know what? I finally got the respect I wanted. If I go, I go. And I was like, you know what, Tom?

I'm happy for you. No one takes him seriously. He's the perfect court jester. He's there to be laughed at. And then he's doing a really good job. Even Tom Sandable. Yeah, even the ending we have Dolores from Patterson, which is like her alter ego

when she turns like super like cold and like monotone where she was saying like, you better kill me. I'm gonna come for you. I was like, I'm coming for you. All I said was that is a housewife from Jersey right? Yeah. Don't kill her. It's heating up. It's good.

I think it would be harder for me to do the bug and snake things than some of the stuff on Special Forces. Really? Listen, like there's a reason Fear Factor got canceled. It's like, you can only take so much of that stuff, you know? And it's... I have a confession. I've done the bug challenge before.

What does that mean? I paid for like a haunted house where like it was VIP and they like dump a ton of bugs and like you have to... You paid for that? Yeah. Oh my God. It's a VIP experience, but if you close your eyes, you can win it.

He's like, it's a business expense. No, that's the thing. If I had to do... It's a tax write off. If I had to mentally be like, all right, I gotta fucking do this. Like I hate snakes. I'm a big believer that like sometimes we

hang onto our phobias because it's something that we identify with. It's like, if you need to get over a phobia, you can. You truly can. I cannot get over trypophobia. Sure, whatever. You don't need to. I'm with you on that.

Which one's trypophobia? Clusters of holes. Tiny clusters of holes. Listen, you can get. You don't need to. I'm with you on that. Which one's trypophobia? The holes. The tiny clusters of holes. Listen, you can get over anything you really need to. And most of the stuff you don't need to. Anyways, I would have been able to like muscle it up, but I wouldn't have been calm. I would have maybe had to like close my eyes and I might have squirmed. Oh yeah, I feel them.

I got to give Sierra a lot of credit. I was like, the fact that she did not open her eyes or did not pull away where I'm like the second to weight where I don't actually don't, I'm not afraid of snakes, but I'm like the fact that she did not open her eyes or did not pull away where I'm like the second, the weight where I don't actually don't, I'm not afraid of snakes, but I'm like, if you're afraid of all of those things to top it off with a snake on like the weight of a snake over your shoulders. And her being like, what is it?

What is it? I was like, girl, if you don't know, you're lucky. I honestly think I would have handled that challenge really well. Not relatable. Well, speaking of traders and speaking of Sam, who he's starting to talk a little bit more. He's got a funny personality.

He's got a funny personality. He's giving very manly. He's also our guest this week on Going Deeper. This was an amazing interview. If you guys are fascinated with anything Britney Spears and their relationship, this is a must listen episode. You do not wanna miss. I didn't even know what to expect with Sam.

You know, we got in contact, he hit me up, I was like, I absolutely would love to have you on the show. I said to him, everyone knows who you are, and no one knows who you are. It's like we all know him as the ex-husband of Britney Spears, one of the biggest and greatest pop stars of ever, or of our generation. But we know nothing of the man.

He's relatively quiet on Traders. Well, we got to sit down with Sam and spend a lot of time with him. And he gets into his whole backstory and coming to America and meeting Brittany and a lot about their relationship. So you gotta listen to it. It was wild.

I see him in a totally different light after talking with him than certainly before Traders and even on Traders where we haven't really gotten to know him. So it's an absolute must listen going deeper tomorrow on the Vile Files. Be sure to check that out. All right. Bachelor time. Recently departed Ali Joe will be joining us momentarily.

This episode's really, this season's really like, it's good. It's good. This season's really, this season's really, like, it's good. It's good. This season is good. I'm hooked. I'm still holding on to my, Latia and Juliana are still definitely fine too. Are you guys, oh by the way, for anyone who I'm sure there are plenty of people

who disagree with me, still absolutely 100% team Zoe. Look, not my cup of tea. No, not, yeah, not true. I stand by that. She doesn't have to be your cup of tea. She's pretty. What is Zoe's job? What is her job?

Engineer, mechanical engineer. Mechanical engineer. Model. And model, but I wanna focus on the mechanical engineer. Listen, anyone can do anything, but it's a unique profession for a lady to be a mechanical engineer. Maybe she might be different in, say,

like a house full of other women. Tech engineer. She might, her personality might read a little differently. She's a tech engineer. Tech engineer, I don't know, engineer. You know when like, go to any engineering program and it's like 10% women. I'm just saying, she might have a slightly different

personality than a group full of girly girls. And whatever you agree with Zoe or not, like I'm not saying you agree with how she's handling it. I'm not saying you would show up and be like, that's who I want to be friends with. Clearly she is slightly different. But to sit there and tell me that she deserved, if you go back and watch it,

after Zoe said whatever she said to Grant and then Grant like, kind of give that cryptic, be nice to each other, the rumors. kind of give that cryptic, you know, be nice to each other. The rumors. There's a scene where seven or eight women walk up to Zoe and form a line with their arms crossed. Go back and watch.

These women are all walking up with their arms crossed. They don't know, like they've all been there for like four days. And Zoe shows up, she pulls Grant, she spends some time with him. These women are ganging up on her. Whether you agree with her or not, they just don't think she's going about it the right way, the right way that because they took notes as 15 year old girls

watching The Bachelor and now they're deciding how the house is supposed to operate and because Zoe does what Zoe wants to do, they all walk up in a gang of eight and like make her cry and you're gonna side with the gang? I'm sorry, if you didn't come here to make friends, she did exactly that, she made no friends. Okay. The dress comment was crazy. The dress comment was crazy.

That was crazy. Yeah, they tell her. It's the shortest dress I've ever seen, Seraphina. The dress is too short. Not the shortest dress I've ever seen. And you think Zoe, Zoe made that comment? Actually, in fact. Seraphina did. To Zoe. I've ever seen. And you think Zoe, was it Zoe who made that comment? Actually, it was Serafina. Serafina said it about Zoe.

Well, she didn't say it to Zoe. She said it about Zoe to someone else, but. These are mean girls. Zoe heard it, yeah. Okay, but the whole. It's bullying. The gang of eight people didn't get to talk to Grant. Oh, give a fuck.

And you know why they didn't get to talk to Grant? Because Zoe was there every four times. No, no, no. Because they are sitting, I know this, because I've been in that world. They are sitting, waiting their turn. They are more concerned talking to Derek on Traders. Derek pointed out, he showed up,

I'm going back to Traders, keep up. Uh. No, I'm on a roller coaster. Whoa. Sorry, let's go inside next brain for 10 seconds. As Derek was saying, like some, he observed, some people were there to like play the game and like make moves, and some people were there to go far, and some people were there to like make sure they had a good at it, and make sure they were there to play the game and make moves, and some people were there to go far,

and some people were there to make sure they had a good edit and make sure they were there to be popular, and that's how all these women are in the house. They are sitting on a chair and a sofa, waiting their turn, hoping Grant comes to see them or someone gets picked so they don't ruffle anyone's feathers because they're more concerned with their edit and popularity and followers

than they are getting a connection with Grant. And Zoe is only focused on her connection with Grant and these girls are mocking her dress and when she does something they don't like, they gang up on her. In an environment where they have no support system whatsoever, there's no one to call, there's no friend, there's no lifeline,

there's just, are you in the group or are you out of the group? And if you're out of the group? And if you're out of the group, fuck you, you're fucked. Well, Ally Joe was a part of that group. That, that, so you can bring that same energy with Ally Joe and ask her what the fuck. Yeah. Or you're fake.

Stay with your chest. I get where she's coming from, I mean, they're all in a show, but I'm saying for anyone watching, and it's every season, all the Bat-ter-nation, is like they pick the one person who doesn't play by Everyone's rules and they want to pick on that one person when the bully is always the house. It was Kind of laughable

Just the like difference in group dates of how last week she was like, I don't give a fuck. I'm stealing him from you I don't care. I want to talk to him. That's what this whole thing is about. And like, I'm gonna sit here silent. And then the next day being like, I just like. I didn't get enough time with him. It's like, go, your actions have consequences. It's like now you know how we feel from last week. Yeah. I know there's editing.

I don't like her tattling, I'll give you that. I do not like her tattling. The tattling and you don't get to be like this, like I'm all on my own. I came here just for the bachelor. I don't come here for friends. And then be surprised that the girls don't rally around you.

There's a difference between not rallying around them and confronting her with, there's a complete difference than. Nobody confronted her, she overheard somebody say something. Rallying behind her is expecting the ladies to cheer her on as she goes and steals grant from someone else, that's rallying behind. She's not asking that.

What is happening is like, the other women are waiting their turn. Some of them are not getting their turns. Zoe's getting a turn, and they're collecting all the women to like confront Zoe, literally pin her in a corner while their arms are all crossed until she cries,

while mocking her dress. And that's your team bully? Yep, guess so. 100%. I was like, have another martini and cry about something instead of having a conversation face to face with the girls or confront them. But it's like, you don't get to play victim after you played badass last week.

You just don't. I do wish in that moment, she would have said when Juliana was like, let's just cut to the chase. Like Zoe, like, what did you tell him? What was her answer to that? I can talk to him about whatever I want to. I wish she would have been like, yeah, I told him that like, Sarafina that? I can talk to him about whatever I want to. I wish you would have been like, yeah,

I told him that like, Serafina, you fucking called my dress short and that hurt my feelings. And if this is gonna be my husband, I would like to confide in my husband about like people who hurt my feelings. And so yeah, Serafina, I did tell him that you said that. What the fuck?

It's a lot easier to say what you're thinking and what you want when you have an army of friends on your back as opposed to when you're by yourself on an island. No, that's when I thrive. She had Chloe. Yeah, so true. She had Chloe. So true.

And she has friends. I need you all to be in that world. Let's ask Ali Jo. I'm gonna bring her in. I wanna see this energy, Nick. Ali Jo. Ali Jo. Hello.

Hello, how are you? I'm doing good, how are you? We're so good. Your heart is healed from your bachelor you? I'm doing good, how are you? We're so good. Your heart is healed from your bachelor exile? I would say so, for now. For now. Well, before we get started,

the household wants me to let you know I am staunchly Team Zoe. I don't know if you're gonna be okay. Listen, should I get the boxing gloves out? Relax, we're in. Are you gonna get the rest of your gang? I'm on it. Amazing, I roll deep, I roll deep.

Tell us about your experience, Allie. Experience was great, it was wild, it was interesting, it was fun. I feel like there's not one word you can use to explain the experience there. It was a great time, honestly. Were you surprised to kind of get an early exit or just kind of not make I mean

I'm guessing maybe you just didn't get a chance to make a much of a connection with Grant Yeah, I feel like the time every time I would speak with him. It was cut short So the last conversation I had with him before the rose ceremony I remember going into one of the interview rooms and being like not really feeling too confident today I don't always own that if I'm feeling confident. I feel that way. And if I don't, I don't. And in that moment, I really didn't. So I kind of had a feeling after I'd spoken to him that night. And was it always Zoe who was cutting you off

or were there other people who kind of cut you off? There were other people. There were other people. Okay. But not, you know, consecutive times in a row. Are you still having beef with Zoe or have you guys reconciled? No, there's no beef at all. Listen, I'm a very like onward and upward person

It wasn't shown and I know she had spoken on other podcasts But I did apologize to her the next day we confided in each other a little bit that night at that cocktail party I had my red wine. I gave her a little cheers. We were in the pool together the next day So none of that was shown but I'll I'll own when I need to do something. And I did apologize to her. So there's no beef. Oh, you did? Like I said, onward and upward.

Great. What did you apologize for? For the way I came across and the way I spoke to her. I wouldn't say it was the best way to present something, but I was in the heat of the moment and I'm not a perfect person, but I own it and I apologize, you know? So maybe you can help clear up a debate

we were having before you showed up. You've been obviously in this world, it's been a while so I know what it's like to be in your shoes but I'm usually of the opinion and while everyone there is well intentioned and it's all very confusing for everyone who's there. I mean, in the first couple weeks you guys are like, what the fuck's going on?

But I'm of the opinion that even though the edit usually doesn't show this, that the, in real time, that the house is usually the bully. I'm not calling any of you ladies bullies. I'm just saying when you're in this house and you're part of the majority opinion and you're the one person doing your own thing, even if your own thing is harmless, is trying to get some time,

it can be very intimidating when a group of men or a group of women walk up to you with your arms crossed and kind of like, what the fuck are you doing? And that's why I'm always, I'm team Zoe in that. Do you see what I'm saying, or do you feel like there's a different side? No, of course, I always like to feed two sides of a story, and I even said that when I was speaking with her,

you know, like, you have your side, I have my side, and there's the truth somewhere in the middle. But nobody ever stood there with their arms crossed. She was always invited to do things and join us. And that's what was failed to be said by her and the edit. It's like she was included. She just chose not to include herself sometimes. But it also was shown we were all like eating dinner together. Her and Parisa did like a little hibachi night. We were all around the table. So like she was included so that's where sometimes like if you want to put yourself in that box that you feel like

you weren't included that's how she felt but being on the other side she was included and you know you can't really say that your teammates weren't supporting you when you quite clearly just said you weren't there to make friends and you were not just treating me a certain way, it was everybody. So you have to like, if you're gonna say something, you have to at least back it up and there's proof in the pudding and it was shown on television, not everything.

You know, like I said, she has her side, I have my side. There was a truth, someone was in the middle, onward and upward, but nobody ever stood there with their arms crossed. I only do that when I'm taking rumble boxing photos. Well, I don't know if it was you and maybe you'll see it when you watch the episode, but when you guys confronted Zoe, there was many of...

It was after when Sarafina said her dress was short and she went and she told Grant about it, and then Grant was like, the rumors, like y'all need to be nice to each other. And it was like, Zoe, what did you say to him? And then y'all all kind of... Y'all kind of ganged up on her a little bit. It was kind of hollow.

Yeah, so I mean, I haven't seen that episode, but I remember in real time, I kind of just sat there. I was like, yo girl, me and you, we like squashed it. She was like, no, I said like, it wasn't Ali Jo. Like she, her and I looked at each other in the eyes and said that, so I was not involved in it. Ali Jo's hands are clean. Ali Jo's hands, to be clear for everyone,

were not crossed. Arms were not crossed, hands are clean. Allie Jo's hands, to be clear for everyone, were not crossed. Arms were not crossed, hands are clean. They were not crossed, exactly. I mean, were you aware of this like Rose and Carolina issue where Grant told her he was thinking of Rose during the dance with Carolina? Did you hear that? So when I was talking to Grant that final night,

the night that I got eliminated, there was like all these things happening. And I was talking to Grant that final night, the night that I got eliminated, there was like all these things happening. And I remember me and Juliana were like, what's happening? What's happening? Like we were drinking drinks at the bar. We're like, what is going on? And I was like, I'm just trying to talk to Grant.

I was hanging out with the Golden Bachelorette man. I talked to Jack more that night, more than I spoke to Grant. We were flipping burgers. So I didn't really know what was going on. But then I kept seeing all the girls walk back and forth. And I was like, what's happening like there like there's something happening so I knew something was brewing and then I knew Chloe had cried and her and I were talking and I was like, and she was a little upset that he kind of spent time

talking with her and while he was upset talking about other women and I said to her was like, listen, maybe that's a good thing he's confiding in you that that's a good sign so I was trying to make it a positive but yeah, I wasn't aware of the entire situation, but there was some rumblings happening. Who do you trust more, Carolina or Rose? I didn't have a, like, we were friends in the house. I spoke to Rose a lot more than I spoke to Carolina, but I could not pick a side of who I would trust more

because I wasn't there. I like proof and I like to see things in my own eyes and I wasn't there, so I don't know. Gun to your head, you know? You gotta pick a side. Messy, messy, messy. I don't know. I guess I have to see how it comes about on television.

The comment that Sarafina made about Zoe's dress, can you kind of tell us how that whole situation went down? Like, was it overheard by Zoe? Was it said to? Was it a bunch of women talking about, was it overheard by Zoe? Was it said to Zoe? Was a bunch of women talking about it that it got back to her? So to be honest, I don't remember her saying that. And then when it came up in the previews,

I was watching it with my mom, like the first episode, she was like, Anjo, did you say that? And I was like, no, I didn't say that. I had no idea who did it. And then when they ran it back and she was showing Serathina, I was like, I truly don't remember her saying it that night. Like, I don't know if I wasn't present.

I was hanging out with Dina a lot that night. I really don't remember her saying that. I wasn't around. Okay. I honestly think it would be crazy for Grant not to think of also Rose while making out with Harleena. Rose was also really sick too. What happened to? Oh, who was that? Beverly, Beverly. Rose was also really sick too. What happened to?

Oh, who was that? Beverly, Beverly. Oh yeah, Beverly went home. Oh yeah, she went home. Yeah, she got pretty sick. Like none of us know where she went. She was supposed to have a one-on-one date and then we all did our group finance date,

which I did horribly at. Then we came back and we were all like, where's Beverly, where's Beverly, where's Beverly? Like we didn't know and then she ended up getting really sick and she had to, unfortunately, leave, which we all felt really bad for. And she was a great girl. Have you heard from her since?

Is she okay? Yes. Okay. Yeah, she's okay. She's okay. Yeah. Okay. Thank goodness.

Well, Allie, thank you so much for giving us a little bit of the tea. We really appreciate you jumping on and giving us a little of the 411. And now that they're bringing paradise back, are you hoping to get an invitation to the beach? Listen, I moved to Fort Lauderdale and I have a lot of bikinis now, so I would maybe go. We'll see where I'm at in that point of my life. No shopping needed for Ali Jo.

She is booked and ready to go. I'm ready. I was laying in the palm trees yesterday in the sun. Are you currently single and available as of today? I am currently single and available as of today. Okay. Well, we gotta put it off there. Maybe we'll see you, yeah.

You know, some people in casting watch the show. So it's really important. You never know. I do have to correct you though, Nick. Oh, please. You said something about Cup of P, but I'm a Cup of Joe. So we gotta just change that a little bit. Thank you so much, Ellie Jo. but I'm a Cup of Joe. So we gotta just change that a little bit next time.

Thank you so much, Ellie Jo. I appreciate it. Cup of Joe. I stand corrected. Thank you so much for your time, Ellie Jo. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Good luck the rest of the way.

We hope we see you on the beach and we'll see, well, it all comes down to women tell all. You know, you gotta find that sweet spot between like being like someone who left early and not talking too much, but talking enough, you know, where they want you on, you know, so. Absolutely. All right.

Well, we'll see you then. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. Appreciate you. All right, take care, bye-bye. Bye. Yeah, I think it would be psychotic if you really break it down.

If Grant, like, I don't know what he's supposed to say because it's like a tough position to be in, but imagine if he was only thinking of Carolina when he was making out with Carolina and not the other five women or whoever, how many women were there? That would be weird. It would be like you, like we're all fucking here.

You're not thinking of like, hey, maybe we should wrap this up a little bit. There's five other women watching us. Like it's getting a little awkward, getting a little hot. Yeah, honestly, don't even know that they're there. That would be insane. That would be even worse. That is true, but I do think it was. That's how insane this is a little awkward, a little much. Yeah, honestly, don't even know that they're there. That would be insane. That would be even worse.

That is true, but I do think it was. That's how insane this world is. I do think it was insane for Rose to then like, tell Carolina this whole like, he said he was thinking of me while dancing with you. And then to straight up tell Grant when Grant's like, I never said that. She's like, I could have sworn you did.

He's like, well, I didn't. She's like, I must have misheard you. That convo was so, I didn't. She's like, I must have misheard you. He's like, that's a crazy thing to miss here. So what do we think the truth is? I think that the truth is that he was feeling bad for the other women that he was doing such a public display of affection with Carolina. And so he was thinking about it.

I think when him and Rose talked about it, we didn't see this conversation. They were probably, she probably mentioned like, that was uncomfortable. I felt weird watching it. And he probably said, don't worry. I was thinking of you guys. Like I also felt like it was,

and then she must've said that to Carolina. So you think he's lying? I don't know. Grant stood strong being like, those words never came out of my mouth. Well, no, I don't think that he, that he's lying that could because I think that it's all got taken out of context I don't think that he's saying like no, I specifically didn't say I was thinking of Rose while I was dancing with Carolina It was a mutual breakup

It was a mutual breakup. I see what you're saying. Yes Leia I get what you're I get what you're throwing down. She's not wrong, Rose. I'm just saying, sometimes I like- No, but Grant was very adamant that he did not, nothing even remotely close. Grant wasn't like- He took it offensively.

He was like, you're lying on my character. Grant wasn't like, listen, I was trying, I didn't say it like that, and you knew I didn't say it like that, and for you to take that and go back to Carolina felt like very disingenuous of you. He could have easily handled it that way, and he did, and he was like,

I don't fucking say that shit. Right, but then to Leia's point, he also did not get rid of her for lying on his name. He said, everyone makes mistakes and deserves second chances, so here's your rose. So you think that's him covering his ass, rather than him being like, I don't know. That felt like a producer being like,

maybe let's keep another around. Yeah, there was definitely that. That's almost certainly the answer. Another more like acceptable answer. He's just like, I don't know, like who do I have left to choose from? He's like Rose, Ally Jo, and he's like, I don't know. Well, I'm not gonna end up with either of them.

So he's like, I don't know. I kind of liked making out with Rose a little bit more than Ally Jo. So let's keep Rose for a week. I don't know, I kind of liked making out with Rose a little bit more than Ellie Jo, so let's keep Rose for a week. I don't know, I think that there was more to the story. I mean, she's just gonna make up a complete, I mean, she says that, I remember that happening. No, she said, maybe I misheard.

She didn't stand strong being like, no, I know he said that, he definitely said that. She was like, okay, well maybe I misheard him. But also what is she supposed to say when Grant's like, you were ruining my character. She was giving, I was running my mouth and gossiping and having fun and I never imagined this would get back to you. Because did you hear what she said when she was like, that was a private conversation between me and Carolina.

It's like she was like jaw dropped that Carolina brought it back to Grant. And she's like, we were just like, I thought we would never get brought up again. I think her only defense of Rose, because I think Carolina is kind of shady. Well, Carolina didn't tell him. He did process of elimination to get to Rose.

Well, she has epilepsy. So I feel like maybe that, you know, she was dating a DJ. Was it a little weird? And I feel like maybe that's why they broke up. He's like, you have to support me. And she's like, I can't go to the raves. It's a little too much hype.

It ended up being sadder than we imagined. It was sad. We had a- And Grant was crying. We had Latia, her story. We had three stories this episode, three stories. We had a story from Latia. We had a story from Grant. And we had a story from Carolina. To recap, Latia's story, that her father,

as a three month old child, and as a new dad, like nothing hits harder than the idea that the ability to raise my daughter and be her father was stolen from me because of a tragic car accident, and that her father's life was stolen from her, and she lost this that her father's life was stolen from her and she lost this from her father is a devastating story worthy of many, many tears. The tear was composed, there was a couple tears, it was a beautiful cry, it was a sad, sad story. Grant had to open up

about his father who is still thankfully with us but had to open up a very vulnerable topic of his dad struggling with addiction. And obviously the turmoil and trauma that can come between a family and a father and son dynamic, very sad story. It's very, it's deeply sad. Grant did not cry. He kept it together. Then we have Carolina.

At 17, she tragically had a seizure and was very embarrassed and she cried a lot. It was very sad, because of epilepsy. Who judges someone for having a disease? That was her thing is that when she was having the tremors and seizures in front of young kids, she was like, I shouldn't feel bad for something that I'm struggling with.

Now somebody had a seizure in the middle of a grocery store and it was very apparent that nobody knew what to do besides thank God there was one medical professional that was shopping that day. Sadly, I have loved ones who deal with epilepsy. If not treated, it can be very serious. People have lost their lives. It's nothing to be messed with.

You should definitely consult with your medical professionals if you have any symptoms. The way it was delivered was a little heavy. I think she was more so saying it because it's like being with somebody with epilepsy is like, could be different. She was saying like, this is what a life with me could be like. And it's not easy for somebody to be with somebody with epilepsy.

And it could have been like, maybe she's had relationships end in the past. She did. She had the DJ. He picked the bright lights over her, I get it. She was saying that she's like uninvited from events because her family and friends like worry about her. So it's like, it does affect her life of like people don't include her.

No one has to sell me more that it's real trauma. But the group date with Lisa Vanderpump at Vanderpump Dogs, let's talk about that. I feel like Sarafina was like more excited to see Lisa Vanderpump than she was to realize she was on. She was on a reality TV show. Well, before we get into this date of Lisa Vanderpump, we need to address Lisa Vanderpump's comments

that she recently gave regarding Ike Kennedy's. Trash, trash, trash, trash, trash. Yeah, I stand with Kristen Doherty. She should have just not spoken. 100%. What was her statement? Can we bring it up? OK, so Lisa Vanderpump spoke to us weekly in an exclusive.

She said, I've spoken to James and Allie at great length. The first and most important thing for me was to know what happened exactly. I didn't need to just hear from James. I needed to hear from Allie too. From her mouth, what happened? She told me categorically he didn't hurt her. He never hurts her. They

were both drinking. According to Lisa, Kennedy and Luber were both being ridiculous and arguing, which resulted in someone calling the police. Lisa Vanderpump said that Ali basically said, oh yes, take him away. It'll teach him a lesson. But no, he didn't hurt her categorically. So now she's accusing Ali of playing a prank on James is kind of like a. No, I don't think that's what, I think. She's literally saying that, she says. I don't think prank is the right word.

Like to teach her boyfriend a lesson to like, what, not yell at her is to take him to jail. So they got, according to Lisa Vanderpump, they got in a little like silly argument and they were messing around. And then Allie, because whatever the reason, felt like she needed to teach James a lesson even though he did nothing wrong

other than disagree with Allie. And Allie then sent him to prison. No, first she told the police that she was picked up and thrown across the room. But I'm just saying according to Lisa Van Pomp. According to Lisa Van Pomp. No, I know, are we just completely discrediting what the police wrote? Yeah the room. But I'm just saying according to Lisa Vanderpump. According to Lisa Vanderpump. Are we just completely discrediting what the police wrote? Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Like is Lisa just completely discrediting? Yeah, Lisa is saying categorically. I wanna break down Lisa's statement. And Lisa's statement is accusing Allie of essentially playing a prank on James to teach him a lesson, using law enforcement and calling the cops to- Like a beyond scared straight kind of situation.

Yeah, that's what she's accusing Ali of. Making no mention that like this silly argument resulted into Ali breaking up with James, moving out and deciding not to get back into that relationship. Yeah, that's what she's saying. Kristen Doty responded to Lisa Vanderpump's statement and said,

absolutely and disgustingly diabolical. I will never ever be okay with this constant abuse enabling behavior to have the audacity to dumb down not only facts but also feelings makes me sick to my stomach. To every woman who is a survivor of DV and wasn't believed or supported, I'm so sorry. I think Kristen said it all.

Yep. It's not a good look for LVP, that's for sorry. I think Kristen said it all. Yep. It's not a good look for her LVP, that's for sure. It is not at all. Terrible look. It's standard to how she's been. She'll defend Jack, she'll defend Short, she'll defend Stanville, she'll defend every single person, goes against the woman, and now you're saying that

Ali is a silly goose who is like, yes, police were called, but let me send him to jail to teach him a lesson, that's ridiculous. They were both being ridiculous. Like, yeah, yeah. It's the language around it, too, just minimizing. And now because I don't know what happened behind closed doors or why James wasn't charged with anything.

I can make guesses and assumptions, but because they didn't move forward with this now, LVP and anyone else is in a position to kind of like low key blame Aliie or like. Scapegoat. You know, it's all, it's, you know, she was being ridiculous. She taught him a lesson. It's like she broke up with him.

So it's like what, so. You just would have thought that LVP would have had a more PR like neutral statement, you know? Just being like, I don't stand for any violence period. In any relationship, yeah. That could have been her statement. Her only statement was, well, she was teaching him a lesson and that didn't actually happen.

It's also like, if clearly James Kennedy is sick, he has addictions, he, and... But yeah, his addictions, like it's always stated as like an excuse. I'm not saying it as an excuse. I'm saying that this is clearly what happens when he's drunk, I don't know what happens when he's not drunk, I'm sure it's-

A result. Correct, and I think it lies more with like, he cannot acknowledge the fact that when he is drunk, he is violent towards people in his life. And I think that is where this like issue with me is, I can understand like people have addictions and it makes them do things out of character, out of pocket, I've seen it with my own eyes.

And like, and then when they're not, when they're sober, when they're not on drugs, they're a completely different person. I get that. But it's like the fact that he isn't able to sit back and say, I do this when I am drinking or I do this when I'm not drinking is like a problem for me And Lisa also has at least four seasons where there is confrontations with James and a female so it's like for you to act like you don't know that this is a part of his history and therefore

undermine not only the history of what he's done, but then have another current situation to where now you're victim you're putting the blame on the person whom it actually happened to like you're putting the blame on the person whom it actually happened to, it's sick. She's discrediting every woman who's ever spoken out against James Kennedy. Yeah, because it's not like this is a random allegation. It's like, no, there's proof of evidence of his behavior repeatedly while he was an employee

of your restaurant, of your TV show, and yet you won't say anything. He's no longer employed by you, and yet you still will not acknowledge the fact that his behavior is disgusting. It's crazy. Crazy. She's also a big advocate for abuse against people that abuse pets and dogs. I was going to say against animals, not women. Well, she pointed out in this episode that she likes animals more than people. Yeah. So maybe... Well, that's clear. Yeah. Clear. You know, not that you should be physically

abusing animals or people, but clearly we know where Lisa stands. Hopefully she's not gonna hook any of these ladies up with James. Yeah. I mean, knowing Lisa. I'll still have them wash dogs for her for free. So, hey, that's great. Would you rather be washing dogs?

Would you rather be on a private jet to Vegas? Oh, true, yeah. Yeah. Talk about short end of the group date stick. Yeah. Imagine one of the group dates is going to the Beverly Center and then the other one is a private jet. I would be so mad.

They did have good chemistry when they were jumping off the building though. Yeah. I was like, that's giving couple goofy energy. No, I loved Paricia and him doing the chubby bunny. That too. That was so funny. I'm rooting for her. I want her to win. I love her. Which one is she? Mariska Haggar. Paricia is the one who did the bunny. That was so funny. I'm rooting for her. I want her to win.

I love her. Which one is she? Mariska Hacker. She has the one who did the PowerPoint. She has the rocks. She did the PowerPoint. She's kind of a little weirdo. I like her.

I'd hang out with her. It looks like Latia is gonna win. Oh, for sure. Yeah, I told you all that. Should we get into some Salt Lake City? Brittany came. Brittany, show that. Did she ever.

Why wasn't she on the first two episodes? Because she's in front of. But the best is she's like, where's my grand entrance? Why, like, hello, roll the carpet up. I should be back there. I should be back there. This is ridiculous. At the end, she's like.

I thought she was gonna storm in. They do her so dirty. Why am I not, I've been working on a Brittany, you guys. Why am I not out there? But she's so right. She's so right. This was far, this was so much more enjoyable than her not being out there.

I don't understand. And then they brought her out and they were like, well, actually we have your casting tape. And I was like, oh my God. Her laughing about her being estranged from her children was insane. And then to like point the finger at Bronwyn and be like, you did this while she's in her casting video.

Be like, I'm estranged from my kids. They won't talk to me. There's drama there. My kids just don't understand. You're pitching you not having a relationship with your daughters as a reason to get on this show is crazy. She is made for TV. And the text from Jared Osmond to Bronwyn.

Can we read it? Disgusting. I guarantee I am twice the size of any man you've ever been with. I could certainly pick apart all of your anatomy, but I'll remain classy in the public eye and keep it between you and me. Why is he DMing other women?

Yeah, why does he think it's okay to speak to anyone that way? Why is Jared Osmond? Literally. Why is Jared Osmond? What does that mean between you and me? So true. And not Heather coming to his defense

because of his last name. Literally. Yeah. I would never put micropenis and Osmond in the same sentence. I never hated Heather more than in that moment. And this was after last week when I was just like, Heather, you're like the future of the show

and you should be the leader and rise up. No, her Mormon trauma came back up as soon as the word Osmond got uttered. Oh my God. It was bizarre that she was not supporting Bronwyn and women and being like, well, you did say he had a micropenis, so he kind of has like right. And she didn't even say it.

It was sent to her. She was in part of a conversation that, like that was upsetting for, and then even for Mary to be like, I like Jared, he's never done anything to me. It's like, you just heard the text you sent to your co-star. But it's like, if I hear someone sending that text to anyone, I'm like immediately,

I have a different opinion of that person, whether it was sent to me or sent to you. 100%. It's like, if they're capable of saying those words, I don't like that person. And I am definitely comfortable with this double standard. Like, I don't care what Brawin might have text Jared Osmond, you know, but for Jared, or is it Osmond? She didn't text him anything.

She didn't text him anything. Other way around. Whatever, but even if she did, for Jared to write Brawin that message and in that tone and be comfortable speaking to him in that way. Mm-hmm, you're sick. Like if you think there's a level, like yeah, it's like that it's not Like, if you think there's a love,

like yeah, it's like, it's not your, it's barely this person you know, it's an acquaintance, like it's not even a friend. She's a married woman. Thank you. You're talking about your penis size because like you heard a rumor, like if you're so, like why would that bother you?

If your dick's so big, it doesn't bother you. 100%. It just doesn't. You're all sleeping with Bronwyn, so why do you care what she thinks of you? He's the Chet Hanks of the Mormon church. Yes, he's just the... Yes.

Exactly. Yes. And honestly, I think that's disrespectful, the Chet Hanks, because like, every once in a while... He says something funny. Yeah. Yeah. Every once in a while,

like, I fuck with that guy. He has a white boy summer. Yeah. I have to fuck with that guy. Yeah, Jared, be more like Chet. Did you also hear Brittany constantly saying that, like, Jared, and he kept texting single women and I was like, why do you keep clarifying that he's texting single women? Because he had, did you get in trouble recently for only texting married women? I mean, they're back together currently today.

So it's like, I can't, I just, I just. She is still actively following him. I just checked. Yeah. And he's on private though. Who's following who? Brittany's following Jared, but I can't see Jared's account because it's private now. And AGK is following Jared still.

It said on the reunion, like, edit, they are back together since filming this. December is when they did the official post. She's a star. My favorite is that she kind of used like love bombing, like it's a verb or something. She was just like, and then he love bombs me and he's so good at love bombing that I'm back. And it's just like, Bronn's like, if you know he's not bombing you. I don't Feel like maybe she thinks it's like oh my god loves me so much

In flowers, it's like and I love you with flowers She might not be mature She was like that was kind of endearing. She's like, I do have maturity issues. But nothing else she could, she could understand. That is an all encompassing flaw. Immature? If you're in your 60s, how old is she?

60, 50? I don't want to. 60? I mean, my mom's 60. She might be. She might be in her 50s. She might be. Britt.

You can't really find it on the internet, I know I had to find her year of birth. Anyways, if she's in her 50s, acknowledging she has. She's 53. If she has an immaturity issue, that's kind of bad at 53. Yeah, it's like, is it a flaw, or is it like a characteristic of yours now?

You know what I mean? Kind of who you are. Yeah, it's like, it's ingrained in you. And if you are immature, what does that also lead to in cause? Again, it's all encompassing. It's giving chaos. She also really stuck to her guns

about Meredith throwing up, which it bothers me that Meredith has like the biggest reaction to this. It's like, bitch, you think I was throwing up? Like I wasn't throwing up, what a fucking weirdo. Like I wish she'd just be like, no, but Meredith gets so activated by Brittany being like, no, you, I, there's a specific sound to throwing up

and I definitely, and I definitely heard. Because Brandi doesn't, says it in such a, like, it's like you simultaneously know she may have no idea what she's talking about, but at the same time, she says in a way where she's like so convinced and you know she can't be reasoned with. And that's all Meredith has is reason. At least in her mind.

It's like for Meredith to argue with Brittany is like, it's like square peg round hole. It just does not, it does not compute because Meredith is so much smarter than Brittany and to talk to somebody who is just truly not gonna understand anything you're saying because of her perspective.

Brittany, which one is the truth? She's like, well, all of them. They were all kind of true. I still believe her by the way. It breaks Meredith's brain. I believe her version. At this point, they emotionally beat her up so much in that moment that if she had any intention.

It was traumatizing. It was though, for someone as sweet as him. Yes, it was. That was brutal. It was brutal. I guarantee you, Brittany has convinced herself that she never meant to record these women. She was there.

She's convinced herself that the editing team has elongated the amount of time she was recording and she still stands by the fact that it was only two to three seconds, and she's like, no, they made it longer. And Andy was like, they can't do that. 20 seconds while people are screaming gives two seconds. Well, Mary said, get over it, it's done,

and hopefully you are too. She's had no time for Britney's nonsense. Did you see when Meredith was talking about how she's like a forgiving person, and people deserve second chances, and Britney was like, well, what about me? What about me? Do you forgive me? Do you forgive me? She's like, of course. She did. We're talking about a woman who's a prisoner. And then immediately she was like, and you were throwing up. So, well, you were throwing up. Yeah. Well, what's worse, calling

Monica or calling Jensha? Because that was the whole conversation. Receiving a call from Jensha. But answering the call, being on the call list, which is a question Whitney said of like, are Heather, are you on her call list? I had a friend once who was in prison and I, you have to be like approved to be on their call list and you like that's a. I do not know prison protocol. Yep.

Well, that's one of them got to be on the call list. And so the Meredith has been like, yeah, sure. You can add my number on there and yeah, you can call me. You have to get approved to be on the call list? Mm hmm. You think they're going to let you call like. yeah, sure, you can add my number on there. And yeah, you can call me. You have to get approved to be on the call list? You think they're gonna let you call?

Yeah, but that's- It is a federal president. I mean, maybe it's different state by state. I don't know. It's one more step. It definitely, like Meredith, that's basically saying Meredith had two chances to reconsider her choice.

But it is crazy that- It makes it more premeditated, sure. It is crazy that Jen Shaw was able to say what she said about Meredith's children and Meredith to forgive her. When she sat on this couch and she told us about that call and about having that conversation with Jinsha. But I guess for me, yeah, it's like, and this is where I stand with Lisa on this,

is like, if you fuck with Nick or River, you are dead to me. And it's like the fact that Jinsha was able to fuck with Meredith's kids and she still takes her calls and Monica made it right. I don't know, again, Lisa talks shit about other people's families all the time. 100%.

And she's on this episode, like going at Whitney, being like, you came for John and you came for me and if you do that, man, man, man. So it's like, okay. But again, Monica made a fucking roast page about a group of women on a show she wasn't on at the time and about her awful person, boss, I don't even know what the fuck the relationship

between them were, but like, how is she worse than Jensha defrauding the elderly and taking advantage of people and lying until the day that she had to confess? I am not here to say what these women should do with Jensha, but if they are going to give Jensha grace, to say what these women should do with Jen Shaw, but if they are going to give Jen Shaw grace, you have to give Monica grace.

100%. I agree. I think the producer should say if you want one back, you have to get the other back. Boom. Well, that would be- I think that if they were both back on Salt Lake City, the entire show would implode

and that the balance that they've reached would be completely ruined. That's how I feel. Well, this balance can stay forever. Yeah. Fuck balance. But let me have it for a couple more seasons. Well, they're coming back next season, so. I know.

I can't take much more of Lisa, period. Yeah, I mean, nevermind. I'm not gonna say what Lisa said. And I guess I just need someone to, like, Lisa has had, you know, again, I'm not the historian, Selig, that you guys are, but it sure seems like since Jensha has been in prison,

Lisa has risen to her throne. It's Lisa's world, she's Queen Bee, it's her show, it's her universe, she's the shot caller, she has her minions, yeah, you got like some of the other women like combating, you got Browen, but like, yeah, and before it was Jensha. And now it's like, I'm just kind of tired of Lisa being in charge, in control, the show centered through

and around Lisa. I think we need something else. I think we also need people not going after Lisa. Cause I will say like after this reunion, like looking back every season, it's people kind of attacking Lisa's character. So she's always responding in defense. Sure, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

We need something else, but something stronger, something. Monica, we need Monica. 100%. We need the only one that can take Lisa by the way down is Monica. Or just so much of a distraction that they like, yeah, they lay off of Lisa. Lisa's antics seem less threatening

because you have to deal with Jensha and Monica. Or Lisa can actually be a friend because she doesn't have to defend herself and then like that will give the opportunity for people to come together but that's why it's so great watching them finally get to that point Whitney and Lisa and just burning it and hugging and calling it a day letting each other know if you say this if you do that put the gas give me Mary give me Monica give me Whitney give me Angie on team alpha and then give me, give me Monica, give me Whitney, give me Angie on team Alpha, and then give me Jen, give me Heather, give me Lisa, give me Meredith.

Brawin on team Alpha will put Brittany on team Bravo. I don't think Jinsha needs to be awarded with a TV show. I don't either, I agree with you. I don't think Jen, well, people have used the word deserve. This is TV, no one deserves a second chance on TV. No one deserves a first chance on TV. So I don't think anyone deserves it,

but if they're gonna bring them back, just saying. She has good TV. I'm on the unpopular side of bring her back 10 years later. I don't. Not yet, but. I have Angie now. Exactly.

And I love Angie too. And she gives me the one-liners, and she might go low, but it's just not like Jen Shaw, I feel grimy low. Yeah. You need someone to throw the glass at the cameraman every once in a while. Lisa. That's a low, but it's just not like Jen Shaw, I feel grimy low. Yeah. You need someone to throw the glass at the cameraman every once in a while. Lisa. That's a joke, but.

Exactly, I think the thing is like, maybe Jen comes back healed, maybe Jen comes back with her anger issues, like figured out where she is not fighting with vitriol and hate and disgust. But the thing about these girls is as much as they're fighting and as much as they hate each other,

it's all out of joy. They are enjoying doing this. They are enjoying throwing these. Angie, when Angie blacks out and says someone has one foot on a banana peel, she is doing that out of a joy of fighting. And I think that Jen Shaw is doing it out of such a deep place of meanness in hatred that it just like sucks all the air out of the room and I don't enjoy it on my TV

screen. There's a reason why they tell like recovering addicts and alcoholics like don't go back to the same group of friends the same group of people that you were doing all of this stuff that was making you feel like these choices were right. I feel like Jen Shaw being put back into this group of women she's gonna have that like reaction where that where it's like now I'm back in my element, even though I'm healed or a better version of myself, she's gonna slowly start slipping into the petty bullshit trying to make television. And it's like, if you're gonna heal, heal.

But what she did was absolutely disgusting. So I'm like, I don't think that she deserves a platform. But her with her whole giant closet of fake luxury, like they would tear her to shreds immediately. Well, I feel like it would be like just good TV of like, They had four seasons to do it and no one could step up to Jen Shaw.

So that's where it's like, no. Heather's definitely not going to. Well, even Heather looked completely broken whereas like Meredith talking about having spoken to Jen and whatnot. It's like the woman gave her a black eye. Like, why are we sitting here pretending that she- So bring Monica back. My thoughts are- pretending that she's- So bring Monica back.

My thoughts- 100%. Oh, 100% bring Monica back. I've been saying that. I'm never going to. They wanted to. But also my favorite too is Lisa talking to Angie trying to like reason out things with Meredith.

And she was like, Meredith is a lawyer. I'm a fucking hairstylist. Like she should be taking me to town. Like why are you stepping in and defending the lawyer when let the lawyer speak for herself? I love Angie. When you're in law school, never actually practice law. I'm gonna miss these girls so much on the off season.

All right, well I think that will wrap up today's episode. Thank you to our guests, Derek and Ali. Joe, tomorrow we have a very special, amazing Going Deeper with none other than Britney Spears ex-husband, Sam Ascari, you know him from Traders. If you have been wondering about who this man is, what is he all about, what did Britney see in him, you will not want to miss this episode. I was kind of blown away. Man has a lot to say. Man has a lot to say and he says it tomorrow on Going Deeper. We'll see you then. Bye.

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