The Viall Files - E890 - Southern Charm w/ Venita, Bachelor w/ Alexe, Love Is Blind, Martin Kove, Traitors, and Summer House

Episode Date: February 25, 2025

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  It’s a jam-packed episode today, as we welcome Venita to get into all things Southern Charm, Alexe to talk about her surprise exit from Bachelor, and Martin Kove to talk Cobra Kai. Also, we get into Love Is Blind outside the pods, Danielle’s Traitorous tears, Erewhon strawberries, and more!  “She called me a rat!” Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  OUT NOW! Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff. Available wherever you get your podcasts and YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Follow us on X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheViallFiles Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Thrive Market - Ready for a junk-free start to 2025? Head to https://thrivemarket.com/VIALL and get 30% off your first order, plus a FREE $60 gift! Apostrophe - Get your first visit for only $5 at https://apostrophe.com/VIALL when you use our code: VIALL. That’s a savings of $15! This code is only available to our listeners. Branch Basics - Make this year the year you say goodbye to toxic products! Right now, our listeners get 15% off their Premium Starter Kit by using code VIALL at https://branchbasics.com  Timestamps: (00:00) - Intro (01:33) - Updates and Debates (13:28) - Household Headlines (39:17) - Venita Joins (58:21) - Paige and Craig (01:01:27) - Alexe Joins (01:16:19) - Bachelor Recap (01:32:54) - Love Is Blind (01:53:57) - Traitors (02:02:29) - Martin Kove Joins (02:16:35) - Kobra Kai (02:26:32) - 80s Villain or Reality TV Villain? (02:39:26) - Outro Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @venitaaspen @alexe.godin @martinkove @ciaracrobinson @justinkaphillips @the_mare_bare @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell 

Finding healthy snack choices for your kids can be a challenge. So many bad options out there. So where can you find a place that only is giving you good options? Well, that's Thrive Market. Let's be honest, raising a family today feels like navigating a maze of unhealthy options between hidden sugars, artificial ingredients and misleading labels. It's so hard to know what is actually good for our kids. Can't tell you how many times I go to the grocery store

and I am like, oh, look, it's organic, it's healthy, it's good, and then I read the ingredients and there's a long list of chemicals in it. So at Thrive Market, I really trust them to show me options that are good for my family. Thrive Market makes it simple to find trusted family-friendly brands without spending hours in the grocery store

from snacks and school lunches to pantry staples. Everything they offer is 100% non-GMO. The convenience of not having to go to the grocery store with the peace of mind that what I'm ordering is low sugar, gluten-free, organic, and high protein options is actually unbeatable. The Healthy Swap Scanner in the Thrive Market app is one feature we can't live without.

Simply scan a product you're used to buying and it instantly recommends cleaner, healthier alternatives. This has been a game changer for our family. Instead of bags of chips, we've opted out for snacks that Thrive Market organic veggie sticks and we'll never go back. Ready for a junk free start to 2025 head to thrivemarket.com slash viall and get 30% off your first order plus free shipping

plus a free $60 gift. That's thrivemarket.com slash viall thrivemarket.com slash viall. Oh. You're crazy. What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the VyLFiles Reality Recap Edition. I am your host Nick and that's nice. It is nice to see you. That's how he greeted me when he came home from his three day trip in New York. That's not true. He walked in and he was like,

RIDDLE DOGS! Nice to see you. I'm the fourth in line, isn't that crazy? That is crazy. That is absolutely not true. No, she's ahead of Steve after Jeff and. Oh my God. Oh my God. I went to New York for our wedding.

Our wedding. Oh my God. Congratulations. I went to New York, let's try one more time. I went to New York for our friend Emma's wedding and her husband Adam, good friends. You guys may know Emma Gray, she was a writer for HuffPost.

Well, I went by myself, so you know, sometimes when you're a married couple, you have a kid you have to divide and conquer, I went as a representative of the family. I love Emma, I wish I would have been at the wedding, it's the flight to New York that I just cannot do, and you know what's fucked up about it, is that when I'm with Nick, he puts us in row 50.

When he's by himself, he's like, oh, let me upgrade to premium select plus comfort plus, but when he's with me, he's like, we'll sit by the bathrooms. I got an upgrade option. He sent me a selfie on the plane. I'm like, I noticed that there's an emblem on that seat right there. And that's not on row 50. I would know.

So... Is the math, math-ing though, is two coach seats the price of like first class? I don't give a fuck. I birthed his child. I don't give a fuck, I birthed his child. I didn't fly first class. I birthed his child, I carried his child and then I birthed her, you think that like I just like. You could check yourself in Nick and then have her in the first class.

When Nally's done complaining. Sorry. Mm-hmm. Go ahead. You know it's a good complaint, but go ahead. Well, I'm just saying like Nally didn't get her, well this is another, this is a, not to pivot, but like, question for the points people out there.

I'm not like a bunch of a points person, like fine. Like, card to card points, airline points, I got them. I started using them. I'm a Delta points person. Natalie has an account, but hasn't been accumulating them. So when we travel together, she doesn't get the perks of an upgrade. Yeah?

Cause you're stealing her points. No, she. Yeah. Cause you're stealing her points. No, she's stealing. Cause you're booking her tickets. Cause he's never used my Sky Miles number to book our tickets, so I don't get an equal. Anyways, I am curious though. It's just like from an airline standpoint, what is the point of having points?

Like I'm a, I'm a, I'm a platinum diamond, something bullshit. What does that even mean? What it means, what I think it means, is that instead of being like not even on the upgrade list, I'm like 15th. So like, what's the fucking point? Because you can use your points to upgrade.

Like every two years, I can buy myself a free plane ride. Yeah. And that's after a lot of money spent. True. Sometimes gives you like access to lounges. I don't need your fucking lounges. He won't let me go in the lounges either

because they charge him $50 to let me go in. So he doesn't. If you got to lounges. I don't need your fucking lounges. He won't let me go in the lounges either because they charge him $50 to let me go in. If you got her, Sky points up. It's kind of like the McDonald's. And she was like, I already do. I don't know the point of community food, even though it's private community food. Oh my God, this is why I love going to the airport.

This is why I have no problem being there two hours early. I get to sit down. Just to eat buffet food? Oh my God, just to relax. I can plug in my phone. Their lounges are nice. Their lounges are nice. You can have a private area to yourself if you want.

You can sit amongst people. You can grab a drink at the bar. You can sit outside. The food's garbage. Some of it, but some of it's decent. You got a nice coffee machine. Sure, you have a coffee machine. Would you rather have a $20 muffin from Earth Cafe?

No, no, no. He made me get a turkey sub from Jersey Mike's at 7 a.m. Yeah, like we can't do that. Would you rather fight for your life in the line of Panda Express? No, I fought for my life in the bathroom later on that day. Exactly.

So be grateful. Private bathrooms in the lounge that go from the ceiling to the floor. Some of us have only ever heard of the Deltal Lounge. What else? Okay. I've only ever seen the sign from the outside. Mary, it's nothing special.

I don't believe that until I see it with my own two eyes. I'll take you. Oh, it's something special and I would love to show you that experience. What else can I let you do? I think I would love it. I love free things. I thought you were gonna complain about my phone

being I knew not to start. Oh my God, yes. That's another thing. So he's gone. He's gone in New York. I'm home alone with our one-year-old who is in all that toddler stage. She is mischievous and she is naughty

and she is very fun, but she's a lot. And Nick's just dilly-dallying in New York City, like getting coffee here, getting lunch here, shopping here, and like I'm home fighting for my life. And I text him. I was getting our daughter close. No, sorry. Hubby Hart has his notifications silenced.

I'm like, the fuck? Notify anyway. Notify. Then I go to call him immediately to voicemail. I'm like, the fact that I have to call you twice and notify my text messages when I'm home alone with your baby is crazy. I didn't know.

I didn't know my phone was on mute. If I were getting murdered, I'd be like, hold on one second. I have to know. I didn't know my phone was on. Like if I were getting murdered, I'd be like, hold on one second. I have to call him one more time because it's on Do Not Disturb. And that's bizarre. Nick, your phone has been on Do Not Disturb for months. I never put it on there.

If not a year. You just did. Well, I just turned it off, fine. It's a laptop. His laptop's on Do Not Disturb and it's broken. But like, this is- My laptop's fixed now. So you can turn it off.

I guess. Turn it off. So yeah, this is just your choice my laptop's fix now? So you can turn it off. I guess. Turn it off. So, yeah, this is just your choice. Do you have a favorites list? What do you mean? Do you add contacts to your favorites? And ask who's on it? Not his wife.

Well, because I was gonna say that typically. My favorite, yes, I have a favorites list. It hasn't been updated since 2012. It's like his parents and all of his buddies. No where is his wife. Red flag. Literally. People from like 12 years ago.

Is that what happened? If you're on a favorites list, you get bumped? I'm pretty sure that like you get like almost like, get to skip the do not disturb or like if you call them, their calls will go through on your favorites list. You can also call twice and it goes through the do not disturb. Right, yes, I had to call twice every time

I wanted to reach him, which felt insane. I got a scolding. And then he texted me, then he felt the need to be like, can you have lunch ready by time I get home from the airport? I'm like, oh no. I mean, then I'm like, well, we have like the mobile dog rumors coming to like groom the dogs

out front, I'm like, I can't leave the house. I always have lunch ready. And then I'm like, can you pick up? And then he goes, oh, so now I have errands. Like I asked for lunch to be ready, but I have errands instead. And I said, don't you fucking dare. I'm not the one.

Insane for you to complain. And he said, on my way. That's kind of like this wife. I love it. Did you hear about the wife that returned home from surgery to a complaint from her husband? This is so me coded. It is so me. Would you guys like to hear about it?

Go ahead. Okay, so basically this woman comes home from gallbladder surgery, very excited to rest and relax in her own home with her family. Very soon after laying down on the couch, her husband brought up a frustration he had with her once again, right after she got home from surgery.

What was the frustration? Basically he expressed that he wants her to stop putting his athletic shirts in the dryer, something he had asked her to do before. How many times did he ask her? It doesn't matter if she's not home from surgery. She was frustrated that this was the time he decided to bring it up to her instead of checking in and asking if she needed anything after the surgery, she told him to do his own laundry from now on if he doesn't like the way she does it.

Yep. The amount of times that Nick has complained about something that I've put in his suitcase because I'll pack the family's luggage. She packs her suitcase for you? Oh, do we need to have a list of all the things I do? Oh, he doesn't get the remote at night. He doesn't get the water, he doesn't do the nightly errands and he doesn't pack for himself.

No, and he'll be like, why did you pack me this? What the hell? Like, where's my, you only packed me T-shirts and shorts? Like, you know I hate shorts. All right, well, you wanna get into that story? I will never pack for you again. One time, that's the first time Natalie packed me, and she's referring to this one particular time

where I didn't let up because, where did we go? I forget. Was it our honeymoon? We're sure to go for it? Yes, it was our honeymoon. I was on our honeymoon. She was like, I'm going to pack for you. My love, I'm going to pack for you.

Yes, I guess. I got you. Acts of service. Acts of service, yes, yes. And she looked beautiful, by the way. My wife on our honeymoon looked stunning. She had a variety of outfits and selections. I see where this is going. I had a variety of outfits and selections. I see where this is going.

I had a pair of pants and maybe two shirts. Sorry, I didn't know he wanted all these jeans in Puerto Rico. Sorry. I was like, you packed for me? She packed me like three items. What was in the rest of the suitcase? Great question.

More of her stuff. Okay. Well, she does have the photos and the, you know, needs to look nice and the dinners and. Thank you. Yeah, anyways. I love you. I love you too.

How are your flowers? They were absolutely beautiful. He did send me some flowers and said, miss you. You love flowers? I do love flowers. Well, Nick is really, he's really good about flowers. Like, and I know it's because he has the florist on speed dial and he'll just the florist will

Text him being like hey, buddy. It's a st. Patrick's day. You want to send some flowers and it's like yeah, sure Happy st. Paddy's day. Love Nick. Do they really remind you? No He did on Valentine's Day. I accidentally read the text. I sent her No, what happened was I sent her flowers just because uh-huh. That's sweet I spent I was thinking about it, about $12,000 a year on my wife for flowers. Bougie flowers. Does it come with a vase?

It does. Those vases are nice, I have. But also, so I have so, now, because he is so gracious with his flowers, I have nowhere to put these vases, and I'm like, I can't just throw these away, like these are such nice. So there's-

I sent them just cause, and anyways, it was a week and a half away for Valentine's Day, and he was like, a week and a half away for Valentine's Day. And he was like, Hey, we're getting busy for Valentine's Day. Would you like to get on the, uh, on the sketch? And I was like, sure. Thanks bud. For sure. Yeah.

Make them big, make them nice. That was the one time he gave me a little heads up and then I was out of time. And of course she saw it. I did get a cost at the wedding though. Oh yeah. Yeah. How was that? Wedding was tons of fun, wonderful.

It was, I really obviously since our wedding, which we loved and it was like the best wedding ever, but you know, cause it was ours, so biased of course. But this was in New York. It was at this beautiful Chinese restaurant. It was my first Jewish wedding, which was a lot of fun. The culture, the community, so much fun, like just great. It was at this beautiful Chinese restaurant.

And what I loved about it is because like, if I were to have one, our wedding was great, but like, and I think the food was fine. We had- Boiled peanuts, mac and cheese. Yeah, that was at our welcome party. Yeah, that was at our welcome party. But like the food was fine.

I don't know if anyone was like talking about the food when we got done. Just to interrupt for a second, we do, like whenever Nick and I were starting the wedding planning process, we were like, food has to be like, we wanted food trucks, but we didn't want people to wait in line for the food trucks, we wanted it to be served hot,

we wanted it to be this, and then we were like, we are doing way too much, no one gives a fuck, they're just gonna eat what they want, no one remembers the food. People were full, but I don't think the food was like, you remember the food from this wedding, in the best possible way, it was like, at an amazing Chinese food restaurant

and it was like, I don't know, like 100, 125 people. It wasn't like a huge wedding, but it was big enough and it was in this big dining room, but it felt really intimate. It was like a big intimate dinner with a huge family and friends having just amazing food and great speeches and things like that, and then we danced. So it was a lot of fun.

And then afterwards, then someone came up, absolutely hammered and stumbled up to me, said that they were a journalist and that this was off the record and then started asking me a bunch of divisive questions, which really made me feel uncomfortable. Yikes. How'd you get out of it?

I was like, I don't think this is any of your business. And then to which she took offense. And then her friends kind of butted in and apologized for her and said, it hurt people, hurt people. And she's going through it right now. OK. Sometimes weddings bring the worst out in people. There was that.

But I did get to talk parenting with Daniel Radcliffe. That's pretty cool. That was a lot of fun. He was also a guest at the wedding. Lovely man who also has a young child at home. So we got to talk about parenting, which was has a young child at home. So we have to talk about parenting, which is a lot of fun. So really cool. We do have a great episode lined up for you today and this week. We have a very explosive, very dramatic, very incredible going deeper episode

this week with the one and only Bella Thorne is with us from not talking much about all her drama in her life. Well, she's here this Wednesday and she really opens not talking much about all her drama in her life. Well, she's here this Wednesday and she really opens up and with a lot of drama in her life going on she kind of took a back seat and now she's here to talk about all the things going on in her life. So it's a really fantastic episode. She really opens up and speaks to just all the controversy that she's been going through. So she is with us on Wednesday. You will definitely not wanna miss that episode.

Also we have at the end of our episode, the wonderful and endearing Martin Cove. You know him from the hit series Cobra Kai. They're in their last season on Netflix, also from the Crowdy Kid movies. A legend, a legendary 80s villain and now a more complex character on Cobra Kai. But he is with us, has some great stories,

and can't wait for you guys to listen to that as well. Later today, we have, Alex went home on The Bachelor, Mrs. First Impression Rose, Miss First 101. I really thought she was gonna be top three or four. No, I didn't think so. Listen, I've been, I would like someone to replay the tape of me saying that it's going to be Latia and Juliana at the end. You did say that.

I thought Juliana for sure and Carolina. So I was very wrong on Carolina, but I was also right on her being the drama. So I'll take it to the bank. Yeah. Then we also before her, we have Vanita from Southern Charms with us to talk about all those shenanigans going on

in the Bahamas. That was a brutal episode for Shax. Oh my God. Yeah. Do you think he's a taking one for the team? No. No, I think he's in Delularland. I think he's delusional.

Yeah. Yeah, which we've all been there. You know? You know? That text message that was sent, I mean, I think we've- Not in the Bahamas. That text message, he deserves to go to prison. Yeah.

But I'm like, even if you're like 16, 14, 30, 40, whatever, I feel like some, and in one point in your life. If I ever received that. But have you ever sent a message? Absolutely fucking not. Oh my God. If it's on your lips. Well yeah, like it's too far,

but I'm just saying like that text message of like, oh, I'm divulging all of my feelings in hopes that this will win you over. And it's like, oh my God, no, they were never on the same page, same channel, same show. Ending anything with thank you for listening to my Ted talk. Jail. Yes. Also, for sure, don't tell me how I feel.

No, I know that you love me. I kind of feel for Shep. I do. I think he's a grown man with a little, you know, little boy mentality. This is the type of text you're supposed to send at like 21. Exactly, maybe 14. And then you're either your girlfriends or guy friends, after you kind of open up and like spill your guts and emotions in a way that you should just never have.

They're like, oh, don't do that anymore. But like the fact that like Shep is what, 44? And this is the time of his life where he's finally like being crushed by someone emotionally and he sends the text like this is the time of his life where he's finally being crushed by someone emotionally and he sends a text like this. Don't make me feel like I'm seeing eye to eye with Austin. Austin was one of my favorites this episode and I was like, how is it happening?

Why, just because he was calling it a friend. Just being real, not sugarcoating it and being like, no man, maybe she'll get something. He was like, you shouldn't have sent that. Yeah, yeah. Maybe Vanita will let us know if she was fake drowning. Yeah, that I do have some questions

or like what about JT you were attracted to? Or is it even real? You know, let's ask her. We'll find out. Can we talk about the Erawan $20 strawberry, not in plural? Yes. Singular strawberry.

So Erawan just like started selling these and then we redo. For the people who don't know about bougie Erawan, because most people aren't living, is Erawan only in California? I think it's also in New York, isn't it? No. Oh, well.

It's only in LA. Basically, Erawan is bougier than a Whole Foods, a nugget, expensive. Yes, it's a grocery store, they have a hot bar where you can get lunch, or they've got all kinds of foods. They have a smoothie bar. A lot of celebrities do smoothie collabs with Air One. It's where hot people who can't cook

go to eat healthy food. Yes, I've seen a lot of influencers be like Thanksgiving, and it'll be just a bunch of Air One hot bar food. Yeah, but for the price tag, add a zero on everything. No, it's crazy. Everything is organic, or everything is made out of something you didn't know could make that substance,

like pistachio flower. So basically, they're selling singular strawberries from Kyoto, Japan for $19 each, and this is the blurb for the strawberries. Our strawberries redefine sweetness and beauty. Each berry is cultivated to achieve perfect symmetry, brilliant color, and exceptional size whether choosing our tochiaka or rare white jewel varieties except an explosion of flavor that elevates the ordinary strawberry to extraordinary heights.

And basically what they're saying is, organic strawberries are rare accounting for only 0.002% of Japan's total strawberry harvest. So this is like a rare. So then why are we stealing them from Japan? Like if I will be, the only time I'm buying a $20 one strawberry is if I am in Japan. Like the fact that we are like,

shipping them here, selling them at Air One, like it kind of loses the charm. This is bad press for LA. Like fresh off the California fires, where obviously there's a lot of people in need in LA. Obviously we know that LA is a city that does have a lot of money, for some people, not a lot of people in the city.

And the fact that like it's making news that there's a grocery store in LA selling $20 strawberries and they're flying off the shelves is a bad luck for us, I'm just saying. Well, people are saying this is proof that Arowan is a social experiment because you could just make something super expensive for something so cheap and people are gonna buy it.

They had a cluster of ice cubes for $18. The balls, right? Yeah. What do you mean a cluster of ice cubes? What if I walked into the ocean? They were like martini balls of ice. Like the whiskey round spheres of ice. Literally frozen water was $18. I hate everyone.

It's the craziest thing. For one single strawberry, and then I'm like, what that says to me is that probably if you go to Japan, it's probably like a dollar, and that was all just like shipping and getting the single use plastic that's wrapped around it. Maybe not even that.

I think to buy a $20 strawberry is loser behavior. I kind of want to do it though. What if we bought it for the team and we all had a nibble? I bet it tastes like a strawberry. Yeah. You know what? I wonder if, speaking of social experiments, so there's this influencer podcaster, her name's Avery Woods, and she's been under fire recently because she did a whole episode

saying some controversial things. She said something about Jesus Christ doing stuff to women to get into heaven or something. I don't know, it was very crazy. She also said that she had C-sections, so therefore her vagina is pristine. So basically shaming all women who have ever had a vaginal birth,

which is crazy because she is like a mommy vlogger. So that's like pretty much her entire audience of women. I mean, assuming she was telling a joke that didn't land or was she being serious? I mean, it wasn't in joke form. I think it was her being like, well, I had a C-section. So like, I'm pristine down there. Like that was, I think the way she delivered it.

What's the opposite of pristine for all the ladies who didn't? Yeah, it's like, what are you saying about my vagina? And like, how do you know what my vagina looks like? I don't know. So it was a little, it's rubbed a lot of people the wrong way as it should have. And she's now come out and given an apology

and has said that the entire episode was scripted. Of the podcast episode? Mm-hmm. Do you think she's lying? It's like Joe Coy at the Golden Globes throwing writers under the bus for what? Literally, it's like, well, I mean, have like- Have they ever scripted a podcast?

Is their entire show scripted? They're scripted podcasts. No, I know, but I'm saying- Oh, this specific? That'd be like if one day we were like, that one episode, you know, where we said that thing that pissed you guys off, that was so scripted. That was literally written by Mary.

Mary wrote that. Yeah. You could, people would buy that, I bet. She's taking a leave. It is just great. It's like, I don't, I just feel like that's, how can, I mean, I guess podcasts are scripted. I just can't, in my mind, I like cannot imagine us

like sitting down on like a Tuesday afternoon and writing Wednesday's episode. And like writing and being like, I cannot imagine us sitting down on a Tuesday afternoon and writing Wednesday's episode. And writing in being like, I had a C-section, so my vagina is pristine. Okay, and we'll say that. And then I will say this, that's what I'm saying. She's probably lying. That's full on production.

Did she release proof? Not to my knowledge, it was just her crying, being like, I'm sorry, the producers, it was scripted episode. Oh my God. Mic drop. Right, okay. But she is on Welles Network,

and people said that Alex and Sophia used to, of Call Her Daddy, used to script all their, they've admitted to being like, yeah, we used to script some episodes. So people are like- I think there's a difference between writing her joke or two, or coming up with a story that Call Her Daddy, when they were talking about the fucking

Gluck Gluck 3000 or whatever. Yeah, I think they definitely talked about some of their anecdotes or whatever, but that's not the same as like a scripted whole episode. But do you think blaming like non landing jokes on it being scripted as a cop out? Yeah, because like if anyone on this team wrote a joke and I said it and then I first of all read the joke,

said, oh, that's funny, I'll say that. And then delivered said joke, then there's the whole opportunity for us to like listen as a group to the joke. And then we, you know, edit the episodes and someone's like, everyone listens to that joke and everyone's like, you know, does it land? You know, there's several, even for our very like,

I don't know, you know, very simple process over here at the Vile Files, like it's scripted or not. I mean, I don't know. You still said it. You still said it. So whether it came off the top of your head or you approved it and then said it and memorized it and all of the things, like you still take ownership

on the fact that you said it. Say it, forget it, write it, regret it. Dorinda Medley. I mean, you know, she said something that was kind of slightly like piss people off. I don't think it's the end of the world. I mean, like, you know. I think it's just like, obviously very telling when like you're in, I mean,

she's just like coming for her whole audience. It's like. Religion, vaginas. Yeah, it's like you're a mommy blogger and to then like, or mommy, is that what they're called nowadays? Mommy influencer? Mommy blogger?

I don't know. I think they all apply. It's an interesting choice, yeah. I mean, listen, it's tough. Like everyone wants to be a comic. Everyone wants to tell a joke. There's a lot of conversations about comedy being dead and things like that.

And like, you know, like. Which I can totally, like, I can see that like frustration with comedians, but like, I just don't, I don't understand how any of saying, any of that was funny. But that's the thing between like- You can say anything if it lands.

Or not, but the thing is, is this like, I don't know who this person is, but she's not, and this is not meant to be a criticism, but my understanding, she's not a professional comedian. We have Nikki Glaser on, we've had her on for a couple times, and every time Nikki Glaser's come on, she says multiple things that piss off this audience. And you know what Nikki thinks?

Not a goddamn thing. You know what I'm saying? She doesn't give a fuck. She's a professional comedian, so when she goes onstage and tells her jokes and does roasts, she does say things all the time that rub people the wrong way. She doesn't issue apologies.

She is a comedian. She just allows people to consume her art and have an opinion. And when non-comedians go on a platform and try to tell jokes and they don't land, I mean, I don't think, if you're gonna tell a joke, own it. Own the joke and lean in. Don't apologize, or apologize and stop telling jokes.

But you know what I'm saying? Like you don't- Or blame other people for the't. Don't split the difference and be like, well I told that joke, it's not my joke. And I'm not a comedian, but like, you know, so don't tell jokes, you know? Or tell the jokes and like say I was joking and like don't fucking apologize. Cause you know what I've learned in 2025?

Not a single apology has ever landed ever with anyone that you're apologizing to. They don't go fuck about your apology. They just wanna make you pay more. So don't anyone that you're apologizing to. They don't give a fuck about your apology. They just wanna make you pay more. So don't even say you're sorry. If you actually hurt a person with your actions, not like the internet, fine, you should probably apologize for it.

Like you don't, don't apologize the internet. The internet doesn't give a fuck. The internet, it's the same thing that I've said before about like the internet doesn't care about the truth. Like they only care about the fun, like crazy narrative that whatever person is spinning, they don't ever care about the truth. Like they only care about the fun, like crazy narrative that whatever person is spinning, they don't ever care about the truth. So yeah, it's like to like correct someone

or to apologize, it's never gonna land and it's never gonna go as viral as the initial story did and people are never gonna forgive you or give a fuck. Comedians don't apologize. They tell their jokes, they move on, they do their thing. What were we talking about before we started about someone? Sienna.

Sienna. So on Southern Charm, obviously, we have Sienna and Shep, a very uncomfortable relationship to watch. It's really great. To say the least. Can we call it a relationship? It's very uncomfortable that we can call it uncomfortable.

Shep's the lululand girl. Bad, bad. Situation shift. But it's like his, what we thought, like his girlfriend before they ended up in the Bahamas. And now we see that it is very clearly one-sided, but she has now taken to social media, of course. She's gone to TikTok and been like,

hey everyone, do y'all care? Like, I'll do a series on like my time on the show and what it was supposed to be. And everyone was like, oh yeah, sure. Like, give us the tea. She was like, oh, yeah, sure. Like, give us the tea. She was like, OK, I'll do a live, a TikTok live. And she posted another one being like, so no one wanted me to do a TikTok live. So I guess I'll just do like a couple of series,

starting with how she met Shep, all of that. It is like TikTok. These are TikTok. These are TikToks. Yeah. And she said a whole lot of nothing for seven, six, seven parts. Could have been just one 10 minute TikTok. Honestly, it could have been nothing because she really didn't say anything that like was news to me. 100%. What did she say? She said that she met Shep on Raya, which we knew. She said that she also met Whitney on Raya, which we also knew.

She did show a screenshot of her and Whitney's conversation on, she goes, I won't say the platform of which I took this screenshot because you can't take screenshots on Raya. So she was like, I won't say the name. She like shows up like, it's another, she likes taking, using her phone on another phone to like show the proof.

It was very all, I'm sure she's gonna get kicked off Raya after this, but so she said that basically all Whitney ever said to her was like, how are you doing? And she said, I'm good, how are you? And he never responded. Didn't Sierra say something like she accused him of being a catfish or something? Yeah, she said that he looked very different in person

than he did on his riot profile. But didn't she say her mom was like the biggest South Southern charm fan ever? Her grandma. Her grandmother. But she doesn't know who Whitney is? I don't know if she's never sat down and watched an episode with her grandma. Little embarrassing for Whitney to have a photo

that's 10 years old on his dating account. Well, also Whitney was drunk on the last episode saying that she matched with him first when it actually came out that he direct messaged her they were never a match. So he pursued her for it to go nowhere. Sure, okay. I mean, not surprising. I'm just saying that's not really a catfish.

His picture didn't match the person. If he used a picture from 10 years ago and he's aged faster. Yeah. It's not a catfish. I feel like I'm catfishing when my hair's bleached in any of like my hinge-like pictures. Again, it's not catfishing.

Catfishing is when you're pretending to be someone else, like showing a picture. That's a form. No, it's just. If it's not what you look when you're pretending to be someone else, like showing a picture. That's a form. No, it's just. If it's not what you look like currently today. That's just you being really insecure and delusional.

At the same time, if you're wondering why it doesn't work out, it's because you don't look like your pictures. Yeah. Fine, but you're, you know, it's like gaslighting. No, it's not, but okay. Catfishing is pretending to be someone you're not. But it also is using a photo that is not what you look like currently today.

If you gained 200 pounds and you used a photo of yourself at like 100 pounds in college, like that's catfishing. Oh my God. It's definitely catfishing. Are you the same person you were 10 years ago? If you post a picture without a beard and then someone sees you with a beard and they're like, oh my God,

that's literally not the same person. Yeah, I understand it's misleading. That's not, I'm just saying it's not catfishing. It's just people changing. Oh my gosh, she's very like, it's definition. It has to be Webster's dictionary and Nick's brain. You're right, words don't have meaning anymore. What do you think Mike White thinks

about this catfishing situation? Because he did model the family, the Southern family in White Lotus after Southern Charm characters. Oh, did he? He did. The youngest son in that family said, Mike told us to go watch Southern Charm.

In fact, Jason Isaacs, who plays the dad, modeled his whole accent after. Thomas Ravenel. Thomas Ravenel. Disgraced congressman. Yep. Who literally just dropped out of the race for governor of South Carolina.

The same week that he submitted himself, he took himself out. Do we have that guy's voice? Thomas Ravenel. We can find it. It's just a very. I usually am very strict on country accents. Should we have that guy's voice? Thomas Ravenel. We can find it. It's just a very Charleston accent. I usually am very strict on country accents, southern accents, but honestly his was very good.

It sends a chill up my spine of making me feel like I'm in school again. Some of the ones in Land Man are not very good and it kind of. This congressman was on Watch What Happens Live? He was in Southern Charm. He was in the first five seasons of Southern Charm. Oh. Oh my God, the mannerisms are so similar too. I don't think so.

I just think that, again, I've said this innumerable times, the age difference is so great. It's crazy. That, it's like my preacher told me, you know? And he's very... You have a preacher to your app? Yeah, I do, yeah. And he was a sex therapist,

because he said, look. Okay, wow. Well, pretty good, pretty good accent. Isn't it? He really did model it. And the fact that Jason Isaacs is like. A Bravo girlie? A Bravo girlie, but also like,

he is Shakespearean British. And then he's able. He's from England? Yeah, he plays the dad. Lucius Malfoy. Lucius Malfoy in Harry Potter. He was also in Mel Gibson's The Patriot as a British soldier.

He's the bad guy. British, British. See, like that, that's an amazing actor that you're able to like switch your accents like that. I mean, like I was just saying, in Land Man it's kind of hard to listen to. And maybe like Texan accents are different than like Alabama, Georgia accents.

I don't know. I mean, obviously that's what I'm used to, but that's hard to listen to. And these people on White Lotus's family, even the mom, they all crushed that Southern accent. Parker Posey, like the SEC family of it all just like sends me, I'm like, I know these people so well. And I am like retraumatized.

Patrick Schwarzenegger crushes. It's honestly, yeah, that's very well casted. It's really good. Did you see Rachel's brawny commercial? Do you think Matt James saw it? You think he's off the grid? I think he's off the grid. But he's not off the grid enough to not post.

Do you think Craig's gonna get some kind of commercial? I don't know. I mean, Ari Onomatix got the Duracell and the battery and trash bags or something. Rachel's getting scandival treatment after Matt James. Paige is always gonna be booked and busy. Yeah. That will never change in Paige's life

no matter what happens. She will always be booked and busy, but I don't know if he will. Probably not. Probably not. Probably not. I mean, Rachel, she did a ad with Brawny, the like paper towel brand,

says she's saying she's like cooking from home now because she doesn't have to pick out the perfect dinner spot anymore because obviously they were like foodie influencers and were going to all these restaurants together and she has someone who can, she can always depend on when life gets messy. And then she introduces like Brawny mascot.

It was a great commercial. It was a really great, really great. The brawny guy is hot. What would Craig's commercial be? Did they have did they have any like, like obviously they had to like going out. Ariana and Tom Sandoval had she was like, I picked up all the fucking groceries and batteries for you.

Like that worked for her. He likes bees. He can do like a honey commercial. Hmm. Honeycombs. Like now I'm no longer sharing my bees. I can just, you know. Don't like female queen bees. Corona commercial.

He's sitting on a beach because he doesn't have to go to the city anymore. With Peyton Manning. Yeah. There you go. Pretty good. I don't think he's going to get one. No. But he does have a successful pillow company with two storefronts and he does just opened up

a successful bar. Everyone will be fine, yeah. Oh, Liam Meester is a... Yes, nobody wants this season to cast late to Meester, Adam's wife in the upcoming season and I think everyone's really excited about it. Cute, it's really exciting. I saw there a little bit at, what was the other show?

SAG Awards last night. The SAG awards last night where obviously we have Kristen Bell who is voice of Gossip Girl and then obviously Leighton Easter who plays Blair Waldorf. Wait, wait, Kristen Bell was the narrator of Gossip Girl. So she anytime you're reading out a spotted, that was her. Yeah, Xoxo, gossip girl. Last night at the Saga Awards, they did a bit. They did a bit. And it was honestly so cute to see them back, to see that duo.

So I'm really excited to have them. And obviously to have Jackie Tone back on our television will be very nice. When is season two supposed to come out? Are they filming right now? They're doing table reads and stuff now. I'm sure it'll be, yeah. It's gonna be wild.

Or a whole year. Jackie said it would be like spring, summer, I think when she was on the show. That's crazy. I love that her show called Nobody Wants This, when it's like, everybody wants this. It's kind of a perfect name for a show. Because you're only setting yourself up to like defy expectations.

Yeah. Did you see the Ashley Darby, the Potomac housewife, hard launched her divorce? This is the funniest thing I've ever seen. She's been teasing this divorce for so long, and then finally. It's a hard, the concept of hard launched her divorce. This is the funniest thing I've ever seen. She's been teasing this divorce for so long. And then finally- The concept of hard launching your divorce after teasing it, first off.

Oh, wow. She really did. Hard launch. A whole photo shoot. Hard launch. You know what that reminds me of? What? Monica Garcia, when she did her like burn book photo shoot

or whatever that happens. And Monica did it first. And she like did her, yeah. I'm here for it. Do you think they actually put words all in that stuff? No, it's a stock photo. You can see the- You can see the- That's Canva.

Look at it officially. That's Canva. Look at it officially and how it goes off the page. Yeah. Gotta respect Ashley, she's a hustler. She is. By all means, celebrate it if you're happy about it. I guess, you see that Cory Beerman and...

Kim Solsock? Yes, they are divorced again. I've had to check out of that whole... Every week is a new headline of selling. Why does anyone always calling the cops on each other? The police are always called. She was selling her Christmas trees that are worth like thousands of dollars the other day.

Like there's always something weird going on New body cam. I'm pretty sure the house just wanted a foreclosure like she moved out and stuff. But who knows? I just wish she quit playing and just come back to Atlanta. When does the new season start March 9th? We'll be covering that I just got shown. I just got fed a Clip from her house of Atlanta and it's when Phaedra was pregnant. Mm-hmm Oh, and it's like winter youedra was pregnant. And they were all like, when are you due? And she was like, I don't know, sometime in July, I think I'm just gonna have this baby right now. And they were like, aren't you five months?

And she was like, yeah. And they were like, you can't have a baby at five months. She's like, the doctor said I could. They're all like, that's not how that works. But also just the table of like, Sheree and the woman being like, so she must be lying about this. And it's like, what purpose does she have lying about

her baby coming? Oh, G-Atlantis. So good. All right, well up next we have Vinita from Southern Charm. Let's find out if she was actually drowning. There's nothing worse than waking up on a beautiful sunny day and finding an unexpected breakout. We're feeling like new signs of aging

are showing up on your face. Trying to find a great dermatologist is already a feat of its own, let alone finding time to make an appointment. That's where apostrophe comes in. Feeling confident in your skin starts with getting expert care, whether you're dealing with acne,

signs of aging or dark spots. Apostrophe helps you get access to the right treatment for your skin. We know how difficult and challenging it'd be to book an appointment with a great dermatologist or even any dermatologist. You're always waiting weeks in advance, not with Apostrophe. Apostrophe is an online platform that connects you

with an expert dermatology team to get customized acne and dermatology treatment for your unique skin. Through Apostrophe, you can get access to oral and topical medications that use clinically proven ingredients to help clear acne. Simply fill out an online consultation about your skin goals and medical history, then snap a few selfies and a dermatology provider

will create a customized treatment plan just for you. Apostrophe offers access to prescription treatments for all types of acne, from hormonal acne to facial acne, even back, chest and butt acne. You can treat breakouts from head to toe. And one of the best parts is that you don't have to make an in-person appointment, you know, it's hard to get out of the house these days

and you don't have to go to the pharmacy. The pharmacy always takes forever and Apostrophe just sends everything right to you. We have a special deal for our audience. Get your first visit for only $5 at apostrophe.com slash viall. When you use our code viall, that's a savings of $15. This code is only available for our listeners to get started. Just go to apostrophe.com slash viall and click to get started. Then use our code viall sign up and you'll get your first visit for only five dollars. Thank you apostrophe for sponsoring this episode.

As a parent, Branch Basics gives us peace of mind that we're creating a safe environment for our family. Branch Basics understands that your home should be a place of health, not hidden harm. Starting with your cleaning products that we use, we started with their Premium Starter Kit as an ultimate solution for saying goodbye to toxins and embracing human safe cleaning products. The truth is, many conventional cleaning products are filled with harmful chemicals that silently compromise your health. These products can irritate your skin, disrupt your hormones, and even pollute the air inside of your home, creating an environment that's anything but clean.

Branch Basics is here to help you make the switch. Their Premium Starter Kit includes one powerful concentrate that replaces dozens of toxic cleaners, making it easier than ever to detox your home from scrubbing counters and washing laundry to cleaning your bathroom and even rinsing produce. This plant and mineral based formula does it all without harsh chemicals. It's free from fragrances, parabens, endocrine disruptors

and synthetic preservatives. So you can trust it safe for babies, pets and anyone with sensitivities. Switching to Branch Basics isn't about cleaning. It's about creating a healthier home. Making 2025 the year you toss the toxins and start fresh with Branch Basics. Their premium starter kit is your first step

toward a cleaner, safer, and healthier home. Say goodbye to harmful chemicals and hello to peace of mind with Branch Basics. Make this year the year you say goodbye to toxic products. Right now, our listeners get 15% off their premium starter pack kit using our code viall at branchbasics.com. That's 15% off your order at branchbasics.com with promo code viall. Make 2025 your cleanest, healthiest year yet with Branch Basics.

Vanita! Hi, Vanita. How are you? How are you? So good. What a beautiful background you got there. You look absolutely stunning too, by the way. Thank you. I'm in my kitchen right now. I figured this would be the quietest place that I have. So colorful. Let's just get right into it. First question is, was that a real drowning situation where Craig had to save you or was that a stage scene?

Because the people are up in arms. It felt like a little, like, you know, staged and you're smiling. Yeah. Yeah. You know, a lot of people do crazy shit for reality TV. I'm not one of them. I was actually drowning.

Oh, shit! Oh, shit! Unfortunately. We are glad you're okay. I was very, unfortunately, yeah. I in fact had water in my lungs. Yeah, and I'm smiling because like, it's like comical, the things that people have the audacity

to say about what we do on TV, you know what I mean? Like, oh, she's drowning for a storyline. You think I would risk my life that my mother spent 32 years raising me with, oh, and for a TV show? Absolutely not. Well, I think you were real fake drowning, but fake, fake drowning. You know, you're just like, you never fake. Well, I think you were real fake drowning, but fake fake drowning.

You know, you never fake drowned as a kid, you know? Just wearing your arms. Nick just needed attention, he had 10 siblings. So Nick was like, I'm drowning, someone save me. Maybe that was it. What attracted you to JT in the first place? I think a lot of people are curious. Yeah, his personality. He's a really good standup guy, and I think a lot of people are curious. Yeah, his personality.

He's a really good standup guy. And I think that the version of himself that he puts on for TV is the complete different person, a completely different person that I get behind closed doors. When you're watching the show back, are you seeing the like contrast between the person that you have a personal relationship versus what we're seeing as viewers?

And like, what do you say to him if he asks you about it? I don't know, it was kind of hard to go because this was the first year that like, we really kind of put our friendship out there for the cameras, you know what I mean? And like, so I haven't really been able to address him about that because we're, you know, not good. Right. So did he do something to you that were like, were you guys in any type of exclusive relationship? Did he cheat on you? Did like, what happened? No, we weren't ever in any exclusive relationship. We were dating.

And I... What does that mean? I'm curious. I only had just like in 2025 terms, like I know some people say dating, some of them not exclusive, but like, yeah, what does dating but not exclusive mean to you? So we were just like figuring out, because we came to this crossroad of like, okay, do we like actually like each other or do we like each other because we like work together?

You know, like how you have those like work relationships, you're like, oh, like that person's hot. And like when you're not working anymore, you're like, oh, what was I thinking? So like we would go out almost every night to dinner. We would do lunch. We would do work meetings together and like really like shoot the shit.

And we did that almost every day for about two months. Were you guys also hooking up? No, and everyone keeps asking me that and like, no, sorry. No, I'm just, yeah. No apology needed, I just, you know, when you're dating, sometimes you are, sometimes you're just, you know, like when you're dating, sometimes you are, sometimes you're not, you know? So I just-

We really set that boundary like right away. We're like, we're just gonna date like normal people, see if we like each other, nothing physical, none of that and see like, okay, is it more than just like, oh, I think you're cute, you think I'm cute. Like, do we actually really deep down like each other? Gotcha. And we dated for, I guess like two months and then the super teacher drops

and this woman decides to annihilate me on social media that he was dating that I was unaware of and basically like calls me out of my name and I was just like hey like I don't know what's going on with this I need you to put a handle on it and he was like I can't do anything about it and then I was just like okay I need to take a step back from this because you're gonna let me get annihilated by- Why couldn't he do anything about it? Was this woman real? Like, was he in fact dating her?

Yes, no, she was real. Okay. Yeah, and he was in fact dating her. And he was like, there's nothing I can do about this. And I was just like, that was my first like red flag of like, okay, like I have to take a step back from this. Like I need a moment. And I took a step back and me taking a step back lasted for about a week.

Um, he texted me the night of my best friend's wedding. I didn't text back because I was at the wedding and I went to text him back the next day and before I could even do that, he posted that he was in a relationship with this girl and it was complicated. And I'm like, Oh, okay, cool. So I found out when the rest of the world found out that he had a girlfriend. Damn. Yeah.

So wait, did he, so it's, what you're saying, it sounds like he faked dated you for the show while also having quote unquote a real relationship outside of the show, is that how it felt to you? Yeah, and like it was kind of like a slap in the face. People say the same shit about me. Vanita doesn't show much, she doesn't share much about her life, she's so protective of herself,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, okay, the one year I decided to like, let it rip, I literally get played. I'm like, okay, this is why I don't. When everything else is open, you know? Like it backfires on me. Damn. Okay, because timeline wise,

were you dating during the filming of the show or is this like post filming, but before the teaser came out and then there was a girlfriend that was shown on the show. Is this the same person? Yeah. Wow. It's the same person.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So all of this was in post. So like while we were filming this year, like, you know, just teetered about showing our friendship more and like we were flirting back and forth, like, you know, shooting, yeah. So all this was in post. So like while we were filming this year, like, you know, just teetered about showing our friendship more. And like we were flirting back and forth, like, you know, shooting the shit. And then after cameras dropped, like, that's when we started to like actually date when I came back from New York for the summer. And then then he quits.

And then he still comes back to do a green screen and then enters this girl into the situation. So he made his decision on his own. What was your reaction to his announcement of leaving the show and then also coming back to film green screens? My reaction to him quitting was, actually I was devastated for him because at this point

him and I hadn't spoken in two weeks, I think. So like, I just didn't know where his head was at. Like in prior, his head was not in a good space whatsoever. So like, I was equally mad, but like nervous for his wellbeing. I was just like, okay, like what has he got going on? But then I had to remember he's choosing to not talk to me

because he's dating someone else. So like, I gotta let that go. But my phone blew up that morning. I'll never forget it. I was sitting at the Ritz Carlson in Amelia Beach, or Amelia Island, and like, I think he posted it at like 6.30 in that morning. I'll never forget it. I was sitting at the Ritz Carlson in Amelia Beach or Amelia Island. And like, I think he posted it at like six, three in the morning. And I get a call from the

network at like seven 15. And they were like, Hey, like, do you, cause everyone always knew to check in with me on him because we were so close. They were like, Hey, like, do you know what's going on? Like, where is he? Like, why is he saying this?

I was like, your guess is just as good as mine. I have no idea what's going on. They not a single clue. What does the rest of your cast say about it? Oh, they didn't care. Cause at that point they were tired of him. You know what I mean? Well, not about him,

but more about you him and kind of just kind of playing you. A lot of them were disappointed. Like if I had Madison being like, listen, I don't like him, but if you're liking him, cool, like he can hang around us. Like if I got Madison to do that and you still played me, like, I literally was risking friendships

that I had cultivated and built and like spent a long time trying to get them to where they are now. And I'm just like, guys, like, you know, like as my friend, like, I just need you guys to have my back with this. Like, no, you don't like it. Like, but like, I like it. And like, I'm need you guys to have my back with this. Like, no, you don't like it, but like I like it and like I'm happy, whatever. They're like fine.

And then I turned around and like got played by him and it was very, yeah, I don't think anyone was happy. And why does Madison hate him so much? Because he did the whole like, you wanted to sleep with me, you wanted to have an affair on your beautiful husband. I assumed it was deeper than that or she only hates him because of that.

I mean, that's deep enough. You're literally going out to the world and saying that I had an affair, you're trying to insinuate an affair when that didn't happen. Meanwhile, Madison was going through God knows, I shouldn't say God knows what, because I know exactly what, but her life is flipping upside down,

and you're out here screaming about, oh yeah, they got an affair, don't do that. I'm just curious though, because back to like when we first started talking, you're like, you know, TV JT is different than real life JT, but it kind of seems like maybe it's not, you know, because like it almost feels like real life JT is just as smarmy and backstabby as TV JT. I mean, what's, what is the difference now that you are kind of saying his atrocities out loud? I know, I don't know. You got me there.

I gotta be really honest, I have no idea. And like, I have to think about it now, like, was he playing me? Like, was he showing me a version of himself to get me in good graces? And this is actually who he is in real life is the TV version of him. And I got the version that I thought was the real version,

which it might not have been, you know what I mean? So is the first time you confront him about all of this at the reunion, or have y'all had a conversation before? First time I confront him is at the reunion. Watching this season, it feels like he kind of has been ostracized by the rest of the cast. The guys really want nothing to do with him.

Madison wants nothing to do with him. And it sure looks like, especially after hearing your story now, it sure looks like his big plan was to like make sure that you were cool with him, because no one else was and no one else would fuck with him. And we know like, you can't create a scene if you have no one to do a scene with. And it was like, well, at least I have Vanita. And it seemed like he almost used you to

have like a seat at the table. And his quote unquote, quitting the show was more like him trying to get ahead of being fired. Because everyone's like, I don't want to fuck with this guy anymore. Yeah, I, you know, and I looked at it as he was trying to get ahead of how he was going to look now that I knew he was dating someone else the whole time we were filming, you know what I mean? And after filming. So like he was trying to get ahead of like, oh, I don't want to look the bad guy. You know what I mean?

Like, let me go ahead and put this girl on the line and be like, oh, it's complicated. Which he's now changed that caption four times. To what? Back into what? He would take out the hashtag is complicated. I changed that caption four times. To what, back into what? He would take out the hashtag as complicated and he would just be like, oh, like lost times or favorite moments or whatever.

Like it's insane. Who is this person? They just showed like a clip of her when Bonita and JT had like a talk in the apartment. His response to you that I can't do anything about it is crazy. I mean, he could do something about it. He could have been like,

cause she came after you, right? Right, and like called me a rat and was like, I don't want to be the rat for a minute. Who? Rat? I wrote it? That's crazy. I wrote it with two big teeth and long tail? No. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. So yeah and he was like, I can't do anything about it. And it was just like, our flag number one for me was just like, that was crazy. But everything else, your best friend, you're not going to defend your best friend against someone who's speaking ill towards them. No matter who the other person is, you're not going to say anything because you don't

have any control over that. You can't do anything about it. Did this get brought up at reunion? Yes, it did. How's that say? Cause this would be a huge issue for me. I'm just like, bro, you like, I stood by your side through all this

and you can't be like, hey babe, maybe don't call her that. I don't know. Yeah, like don't talk about her like that. Like you might not like her, but like what I won't allow you to do is to speak ill about her. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Or yeah, he could have been like, it's not her fault. I like, she has a whole different impression of my intentions, it's my fault I did this. Like, that's on me, you should be banned at me. Not Vanita. You could have done that. Damn.

He could have done fucking something. More than nothing. How are you feeling about Sienna these days? I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't.

Is Shep okay? Is his heart healed? Do you know? Yeah, you know, I think Shep's doing good. He posted this video, I guess it was like a few days ago after like the episode aired or whatever. And he was just like, hey guys, like don't like beat her up and don't be mean to her and blah, blah, blah.

And like I responded to it with some hearts and he was like, was that OK? And I was like, no, this is good. Like, this is what a real man does. Like, you're not even dating this girl anymore. You're still trying to defend her against the evil people that are probably going to attack her on social media. Like, you're doing great. I don't think they should be attacking anyone.

But like, Shep was like, Shep looked the most vulnerable this episode. She'll come and go, you know, like she just doesn't like Shepp, but this is more Shepp's fault. Like what does she do with it? Like I don't think I like you anymore. Like I'm, you know, I'm sorry, I brought you here, but like, I don't think this is going anywhere.

I hope you guys have a good time, but like after this, we're just not gonna talk. Like it's so simple. Imagine being in her shoes for anyone sitting in this room and you too, Vanita, it's just like, imagine kind of dating someone. You kind of like them. You're not sure.

You're on the fence. Like they seem nice. You've had some good moments. He's like, I'm gonna bring a whole TV crew with me on our next date. She's a fan of the show. Fine, whatever. But either way.

She wants, right? She wants to be on the show. Fine, but then maybe it was too much for her and they show up and she's getting a little cold feet. He's mean like sending her texts about the freckle on her lip. I'm just saying it's a little intense. She's like, you're a freck. It's not like we start the season and on day one

we're like, yeah, we're going to the Bahamas in three weeks. You know what I mean? These things take time. So when the idea was brought up and she was still feeling some type of way about chef like she didn't like him Just say hey, like maybe this isn't a good idea And we heard several face times of her being like when are you coming to the Bahamas? Are you gonna come to the Bahamas and he was like, yeah I gotta figure out how to get out there like she was inviting them

But he doesn't really take a hint, you know And she is the first person to click on Bravo when Southern Charms starts airing. I mean, calling Whitney a catfish when you watch the show is wild, but I don't, you know, that's a whole nother debate. Wait, say that again? Well, she referred to Whitney as a catfish

because apparently they matched or something. And I was like, don't you watch the show? Yeah, she watches it. That's why she went for one and one said no, and then she went for the next easy, easy available option. Chef, I'm so sorry. Did you see this like 27 part series

she did on TikTok? No, I keep refusing to look. I mean, honestly. I'm gonna have a day. Yeah, honestly, everyone in the comments is like, seven parts for what? Like you've said literally nothing. So there's really not much there.

Thought she won't be back next season. I mean, she said more there than she did when we were filming for three months. Yeah. Anyway, God bless. Good luck to her. God bless. There's a clip of you crying towards the end of the season. I don't know if it's like a final dinner. Can you tease anything that's coming up?

Uh, J.C. made me cry. That's it? Yeah. I hate that. No. That was a lot of that was a lot of trouble for us. What is your take on uh, Craig and Page breakup? Like how is Craig doing? Do you think it's being handled well? I don't even know how to answer that to be honest. Do you think it's being handled well? I don't even know how to answer that to be honest. I think Craig is doing Craig. So, you know.

What's that mean? Yeah. I don't know if that's a dig or support. That's not even going either. Craig and I aren't that close. I can't really speak to what he's doing. You know what I mean? And like when I say that Craig is doing Craig, like, Craig is not really opening up and speaking about it

to us as a group. So we kind of get anything about the relationship from what we see online, you know what I mean? It's not like he's confiding in, at least he's not confiding in me. Do you think just from what you're seeing or just from what you know of the man, because you know him better than we do, do you think his heart is still broken or do you think just from what you're seeing or just from what you know of the man, because you know him better than we do. Yeah. Do you think his heart is still broken or do you think he's milking it? Both. From your perspective, how do you think he's milking it?

I just think that like, she's not running around doing all these like PR moments about it. She's just trying to like let the situation die and like, he's still doing that. And it's just like, I, we understand like your heart's broken, but like, it almost seems like you're dragging this out longer than it needs to be. Like just let it be like as clean of a breakup as it can be, you know what I mean? Are you referring to him going on like cable?

Well, I mean he's done a slew of other things too, you know what I mean? But it's just like, at what point are you gonna allow yourself to heal to not continue to do these things? You know what I mean? Like the person you want to yourself to heal to not continue to do these things? You know what I mean? Like the person you want to listen to right now, she's not, you're not together anymore, it's okay. Do you think he should like let everyone know

what Paige is or isn't doing? Oh, yeah, I think he should. Only because he is deeming her to be attacked by not so like speak your truth and let it be known the same way You're speaking your truth about everything else. What if he doesn't know then stop answering like you do Okay, Benita. Are you and Naomi on good terms? Yeah, I saw her last week Is there any chance that you might come back to the show? I don't know, I don't really ask her about it, you know? I just feel like if she wants it, she will. Okay.

And it'll be exciting, especially now that her and I are in such a good place, you know what I mean? But I don't know, I think she's passed it. I think she's passed it. Tell her we miss her. Are you a fan of White Lotus? I am.

I did not watch last night's episode, though I missed it. Did you hear that the creator kind of told to watch Southern Charm? Yeah, and Cam posted it on her Instagram this morning, and I was like, wait, what? It was so funny. She was like, there's no way, but she made a good point. She was like, they were talking about him having like this North Carolina accent, but it sounds just like T-Rap, you know what I mean?

So it's like those two things don't add up. It's like, it's based off of us in South Carolina, not North Carolina, like stop that. Yeah, yeah. Wow stuff. That's crazy. Vanita, thanks so much for taking the time and opening up about your relationship with JT

and your thoughts just on your cast in general. Excited to see things shake out at the reunion. Hope it goes really well for you and hope that you get the justice that you deserve. Hope so. Do you need us to start any type of hashtags or like anti-JT things going into the reunion? Petition, perhaps.

T-shirts. Team Vanita. We can start a revolution. She's thinking, she's thinking. I was like, hmm. Maybe. He played you, he played you. Yeah She's thinking, she's thinking. I was like hmm. Like he played you, he played you. Yeah, but like, playing somebody back in school. No, it'd be great.

We'll come for JT's throat. And then when he says, and he was like, hey, what's this all about from your interviewing? And you can be like, sorry, I can't do anything about it. Oh. Oh, okay, I kinda. Huh? We like that, don't you? I kind of like that. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

We can come up with something. All right. Fuck JT. All right. Venita, have a great day. Best of luck at the reunion. We appreciate your time. Take care.

Bye. Thank you. Bye. What a sweetheart. She's so cute. That was awesome. I love Venita. Yeah. We have what a sweetheart. She's so cute. I love her. That was awesome. I love Vanita. Yeah.

We have the same take on Page and Craig. This obviously isn't Page and Craig, but Sierra could have never been more relatable this episode. What part? Her trying to devour Wes at the table or her talking to Wes after? No, no, no.

Her reading him to filth and then being like, kind of want to make out with him. Yeah. Yeah. Realistic. You think I don't wanna hug you? She's like, is this toxic of me to like, actually wanna like go make out right now? And like, no, it's not.

Read him to filth, whatever. She just called him a beta. Exactly. She called him a bitch ass. Beta move is kinda wild. A beta, a bitch ass. She's calling him not a man. A loser.

To be clear, like a loser, you know, like. No, calling him not a man. A loser. To be clear. A loser, you know. No, it was definitely really fucking mean, honestly. It's giving, I'm not over it and I still care. And yeah, it's just mean. She's just trying to be mean. She definitely does still care. Obviously she showed some emotion in her. Let's give her a brawny commercial.

100%. She showed emotion in her ITM. She got upset. So she clearly does still care, I think it comes from, and she said this of they were such good friends before it started off in such a friendship, and she is just let down by actions. I guess, but she has every right to be hurt,

and it didn't work out, I really feel for that. But I'm of a hard time understanding how she can come for him at the reunion like she did last season. He clearly wasn't expecting it, didn't anticipate it. You know, Paige and Sierra came for his throat. He looked the way he did. It wasn't great. All of Summerhouse Nation was coming at him and then like and then he's not supposed to what? Speak on it or respond? They went and had dinner. They obviously got on good terms. No one was at that dinner but the two of them,

but they both left feeling good. He didn't, it sounds like he felt good. He did. Maybe as far as their relationship goes, but like publicly he wasn't. And then he went to publication to talk about it more. I'm sure that if they would have had that dinner,

he would have left it at that dinner, then like, and would have not done a New York Times article or whatever, like rubbed her so wrong. I think his, like. It's not like she got his permission to come at him at the reunion. Huh?

That's what a reunion is. It's addressing things he said nothing. He refused to answer any of her questions or to give his feedback on anything, exactly like he did when she brought it up at the table. And then he sits there and says nothing but then is ready to go run and tell a two-page fucking expose on a relationship. He's not allowed to speak on it. Speak to the person.

Yeah, speak in the time that you're spoken to instead of like going off. Why am I owed an explanation when I don't give a fuck and I didn't ask for it but she's not owed an explanation? He can go tell the New York Times, so I know. So my opinion of Wes is different, but he doesn't give a fuck about the one person it actually matters to. We'll continue this heated debate momentarily. We have Alex from The Bachelor with us

to talk about her recent exile from, well, not really the mansion. The castle. She was kicked out of the castle in Scotland. Scotland. All right, let's bring her on. Traders influence knows no bounds. Alex.

Alex. Hello, how's it going? Good, how are you? I'm good, how are you guys? I'm all right, did you burn the first impression, Rose? Did I burn it? Okay. I'm so, honestly, I'm so ADHD.

I feel like I lost it the first night. I was like, where the hell did I put that, Rose? I don't know. And then Grant found out about it and sent you home. Is that what happened? Honestly, I'm so ADHD, I feel like I lost it the first night. I was like, where the hell did I put that rose? I don't know. And then Grant found out about it and sent you home? Is that what happened? Yeah. Good, good job.

No, everyone was like keeping their roses and like souvenirs and I left with like the same suitcase I went in and that's it. I have no idea where any of the roses I ever received on the bachelor are. Right, really? No, I don't. I think I attempted to save some. I bet your mom has them next to like your high school

medals or something. Alex, what happened? You were like, you know, first impression rose. You got the first one-on-one. He took you to the mall at the same. I know. I live in LA now and I was like, oh, I went to Target a month ago here.

Yeah. Like the Beverly Center at all of them? We couldn't do Century City, Americana. Yeah, no Grove. Oh, I live right by the Century City. So that, I love that mall, beautiful mall. Beverly Center, in the other hand, is okay. It's certainly a mall.

Yeah. Yeah, I thought they closed it. The Beverly Center, in the other hand, is okay. It's certainly a mall. Yeah. Yeah, I thought they closed it. Anyways, what happened in your mind, Alex? Where did it go wrong? Honestly, that will be a really great question at Women Tell All because I wasn't walked out, so I have no idea.

I went into it thinking we had a great connection, and I was like, hometown, here we come. And I don't know, I really don't know. You were shocked. You were surprised. You were caught off guard. 100%. 100%.

And I think my reaction at the end will also tell that I was very shocked. Oh yeah, we saw it. Yeah. Yeah. You can tell is not very emotional as a person. I'm like always crying for everything. Who surprised you the most in terms of the ladies

who made it to hometowns and why was it Zoe? You're putting words in my mouth. I would say, and I mean, I think it's a bit of a shock for everybody, Zoe, just because she didn't have a one-on-one, I don't know what their connection was. So I don't want to speak on that, but I think because she didn't have a one-on-one. I don't know what their connection was, so I don't want to speak on that. But I think because she didn't have a one-on-one, we all kind of expected,

well, it's probably going to be someone who has had one. So yeah, that's probably Boo. But I think looking back on screen, I'm like, oh, they did have a connection, and she shared a lot about herself. So having been familiar with that atmosphere in filming, sometimes we saw Zoe make a lot of waves early on, ruffle some feathers,

and then it became the Carolina show, and then like Zoe kind of almost took a backseat a little bit with the drama. I'm curious from what you remember of the filming, was that like how it played out? I only ask because like sometimes if there's drama early on and then you find out like, or the producers find out or the show finds out that the like, say Grant in this case

like has a thing going with Zoe, they might be like, hey Zoe, like stop, I don't like stop pissing so many people off, cause like, did you see Zoe kind of cool things off or were we just not privy to some of the drama that she was involved in? Which is more accurate? I wanna say the first one where I think Zoe from the get go, yeah, ruffles some feathers for sure,

but I don't think it was intentional. I don't think with any of the girls, anything was intentional. I think in that setting, everything is so heightened. And sometimes it's just like to take a second and be like, is this really like, I it's like outside of the real world. Would we really act like this?

No. Um, so I think with Zoe, yeah, she really took the backseat and I think it kind of probably felt nice for her for a little bit that she wasn't like the center of intention, attention in, in that realm, you know, and that, so yeah, for sure. That's how it, it panned out. Carolina, what were your thoughts on, on her? Was she misunderstood or just a, just really obnoxious energy sucker?

Nick, Nick, Nick. Um, again, this has been my stance from the get-go. I want to say that things were blown out of proportion for sure. Um, do I think that's, you know, she may have threw someone under the bus and we're missing a lot of context and people, you know, see Rose as this, you know, negative

who wanted to like, up Carolina by saying that, but we're missing a lot of context. Can you fill in some of that context for us that we might be missing? I think it'll be more, it's not my place to say cause I'm not, you know, Rose and I'm not Carolina. So I think at women tell all. Oh, that's the worst answer ever, Alex.

That's an absolute terrible answer. I know, I know, I know you want it. That's what you wanted to hear. But no, I just think that things were just blown out of proportion. I think someone wanted, you know, maybe their ego was hurt a little bit. And instead of approaching it, maybe I think two girls with Grant would have been the best decision versus one girl

because then I think the other person could have defended herself. I think that's more what if two on one the better. It's two on one versus right. Because then it comes off as like, okay, we're two girls that were maybe hurt or and then we're coming to you versus like putting one under the bus. You know, honestly though, I blame Rose though, because had what Rose had just peaced out or and then we're coming to you versus like putting one under the other. Honestly though, I blame Rose though, because had Rose not just peaced out in the middle of a night,

she might've gotten a two on one the next week. Maybe. Who knows? I think that's not how it, yeah. Well, how did it go down, Alex? Let us know. You're allowed to say things that we didn't get to see. I think the way it looked on TV,

I think, you know, she, and again, I'm not Rose, so I don't know her, like her experience, but I think it did taint her experience a little bit because she wasn't coming from a place of malintent. And I think, like they said on TV, they were comparing notes and someone got hurt and they wanted to also defend their names and I get that. And I think after that, it set back Rose with her relationship with Grant for sure

and her whole experience. Will you be looking to develop a relationship with Carolina post-show? I think, you know, we all have different personalities. We both live in L.A. We haven't seen each other yet yet and it's nothing against her or anything. I just think maybe her personalities wouldn't mesh the best. And also I'm a little bit like, you know, I'm from the get-go, Rose was my my girl, so not to be petty, but I think, you know, out of respect for Rose. In Scotland, obviously there was another kind of big blowout

at the group date with Carolina not really involving herself. And then of course, Grant pulled her and it caused a big fight with Dina and Sarafina. And I think you kind of even got involved at the end of it. Like do you- Really? A little bit. I don't remember that.

A little bit. Do you think that the whole kind of fight was like, Dina said that because Grant pulled her, she should have said like, no, like, let's cut our time short because there's so many other women here. Like, we shouldn't talk this long. Do you stand by that she should have done that? Or are you like, listen, he pulled her,

have all the time that you want. It's like- Like would anyone actually give up their time? That's the thing. It's like, there's two perspectives and I'm always, I hate being a Switzerland because I can see if I were in her shoes and I feel just the type of personality that I am,

if I knew the girls were already kind of upset with me, I would have been like, you know what? I've had enough time. Let's, I don't want the girls to be even more upset at me. Let's, you know, let's cut it short. But in her shoes, I think she was coming from a place of they don't really necessarily vibe with me. So why would I care? And I'm here for grant.

So I think it depends what type of personality you have. And I think Carolyn is a bit more like a go getter maybe. And yeah, I think that's how it went down. But do I think it was a little bit disrespectful? Maybe, but then again, if, you know, we're all here for a reason, so if you can have more time with Grant, why not? Oh, it's tough because I know I wouldn't have done it,

but I don't know what her perspective was, her point of view with like all the girls not being the biggest fan of her. So it's like, you would be care. You don't think you would have been like, yes, Grant, let's talk for as long as possible. Like I'm here to like marry you. If you think you would have been like,

yes, but then like, this is a me issue. It's like, I also think like, I care a lot about what, you know, my friends think. And then I feel like you need the girls on your side or not on your side, but you need them throughout this experience for it to go smoothly and like on your mental health. Like if I didn't have some of my girls there, I would have left week one for sure. So which is like also very like I can empathize with some with Carolina of,

you know, her experience was probably terrible, right? Regardless of, you know, she put herself in that situation. I think she was experience was probably terrible. So I think you need to balance both. You need to balance like, you know, I think our conversation was, I think, quality over quantity, right? So if I feel like, hey, we've had a really great conversation and we've been talking for a long time and like the girls need also their time as well, that's how I would approach it. Gotcha. Okay. And like, you're like, you're full of shit. I'm like, I'm not. No, no, I don't think you're full of shit. I think, yeah, I get it.

You're being very safe and, you know, you don't want to ruffle any feathers, you know. When you see me, I feel like I'm very- You're very polite. Sure, sure. I was really happy for Zoe, that she stole my strategy and had more time with him. I mean-

Why are you happy for Zoe? Come on. I wasn't happy. I was upset. I mean. Why are you happy for Zoe? Come on. I wasn't happy. I was upset. I was upset because I got a concussion and I was like, all of that for what? Um, but I mean. When did you get a concussion? The bull riding.

I get it. Bull riding. Remember Zoe stole her, her method of going with over the horns or Alex would have won. But I'm also very competitive. So it's like, honestly, if I rolled a reverse, I probably would have stole her strategy too. So, yeah. I think you should slash her tires. Just kidding, I'm kidding.

Do we have any more questions for Alex before we let her go? If asked to be on the beaches of paradise, would we see you? I think so. I think, you know, I watched paradise for the first time a month ago and it's definitely more my speed. I'm more of like a, you know, I, I watched paradise for the first time a month ago and it's definitely more my speed. I'm more of like a, not saying that I'm not serious, but

I'm definitely more of like a goofy, um, chill person. That sounds so pick me. I'm still goofy. Um, but it's definitely, yes, I think that would be very, have you been scouting any of the boys from previous seasons? Any biceps you've been really into or, you know... Six packs. Six packs that you're like... Hard to say. Sometimes you see them on pictures and you're like,

and then you see their personality and you're like, oh right. We won't hold you to anything. You know, you still can reserve the right to get the ick from any of them. Yeah, like the, oh no, I was gonna say something. Like the piano. I'm not a big piano person.

Oh. The piano's an ick for you? Yes, when he was singing and the piano. That's what he wanted out of me. He wanted something spicy. Yes. Thank you. Grant gave me the ick too.

Grant gave me the ick when you played the piano. He gave me the ick as well. If he had played piano in Century City. Exactly. It's just, and I'm gonna be very honest with that, is that everyone knows from, you know, back home in Canada, that my biggest ick is someone who, when we're all having a great time and someone pulls out the goddamn guitar.

Yeah. And it's like, you have to live on it finally. And it's like, we're having a good time. Why? I don't even care if you're good singing. No, it's like, why are you? Yeah. And then on top of that, it was the first time that I was having

time with Grant, right? It's not like at the end of the season, and then on top of that, it was the first time that I was having time with Grant, right? It's not like at the end of the season where you have a bit of a relationship. So, you know, and to get stated, I was like, okay, you got this, let's, you know, but I think you did a pretty good job. See, that was your kiss of death.

Grant knew it. You can't hide an ick, and he felt it, and he knew it, and you're like, she doesn't appreciate my music. Honestly, Alex, thank you for your service. Right? I think it is. It's a teachable moment for Grant.

I know, and it was maybe different at the end of the season where I know him versus like a stranger at this point singing to you. I was like, but I feel like the song was good. The song was good. What'd you think of his song song? Party Girls. Yeah, Party Girls. Did you listen to that?

I think it's pretty good. I think if- It is solid. Yeah, pretty solid, honestly. For just starting out, I think it's catchy. It's catchy. I don't want to like it, but it's catchy. I'd shake my ass in a club to it.

I have a friend for my opinion. Yeah. I feel like if Chris Brown was to come out with a song like that, some girls would be like, yeah. I don't know why I said Chris Brown. Who looks like Chris Brown was to come out with a song like that, girls would be like, yeah. I don't know why I said Chris Brown. Who looks like Chris Brown? I don't know. As you see it now from a viewer standpoint,

we're spoiler free, obviously. I know you are too. Who do you think are his two front runners? I think I'm gonna wait on that. I'm not too sure. What's your opinion? Is that a terrible answer? It's the worst answer, Alex.

The absolute worst. I think that Latia and Juliana are his final two. I think Latia wins. I think Juliana wins. So what is your? I can't tell the difference between Juliana and the lawyer. Dina? Dina.

Can't tell the difference. How? One has blonde hair, one has brown hair. They seem like the exact same person to me. People are saying that about Dina and Natalie, but Juliana and Dina's personality, well, they're pretty different, I feel like personality wise. I think front runners would be, I want to say Juliana and Latia as well, just because of, you know, what I've observed and their connection for sure All right, Alex. Well, thank you very much for your time. Good luck on the beach Wait, did you answer the question about what guys are into? Yeah. Wait, hold on what guys? Oh guys I'm into

So I Think I think Tanner's cute. I think Tanner's cute. I think The guy who's hanging out with think Tanner's cute. Tanner. The guy who's hanging out with all the Vanderpump people? Yeah, who went on a date with Julianne Huff. I don't follow any of the reality stuff. I think he's cute and a lot of people think that me and Jonathan's personality would match well,

but I'm like, would we just be people's too much? Maybe. I need someone I think that helps me out. Jonathan's very charming. He's very charming. He's very charming. Good looking guy too. May I ask how tall are you Alex? How tall are you Alex?

You cut out. I like a tall. She's five five. I mean, five five. Five five. Why are you yelling at me? I don't know what you said. She keeps cutting out.

She's like five. Five. Five five. Five five. Five five. All right yeah, EDM King. Great, five five. Perfect. Five. Five. Five. Five. Five. Five.

Five. Five. Five. Five. Five. Five. Five. Five.

Five. Five. Five. Five. Five. Five. Five. Five.

Five. Five. Five. Five. Five. Five. Five.ina was going after her. It was just like, what, she's supposed to what? Give up her time? I mean, listen, the whole pulling aside and her crying

and being the damsel in distress, obviously that was obnoxious, but like, You're on The Bachelor. Yeah. You like, you want to be like, no, Grant, I don't want to talk to you. All the other girls are here. Let's not talk.

Like that's crazy that they want her to do that. Agreed on that. And all of them being like, well, I would. It's like, Grant, I don't want to talk to you. All the other girls are here. Let's not talk. Like that's crazy that they want her to do that. I agree on that. And all of them being like, well, I would. It's like, no, you wouldn't. Yeah, no. I don't believe you would. You know what I thought the most interesting thing Alex said, when she was like, you really need your girls

to have a good time here. It makes sense. Sure, but it was also as giving like, don't ruffle the house because they'll bully the fuck out of you. Ooh, yeah. I mean, that's my point. It's just like, yeah, you have to make friends,

but clearly this group of friends, and I don't even think it's any one person. It's like the house becomes this organic living thing where the house is only caring about no one winning, everyone having fairness, not ruffling feathers. And the house makes the rules, just basically go after anyone who is like not playing by the house's rules.

And it's kind of bullshit. I think they have to keep Carolina in check though, because even like when Juliana was going in the helicopter, she's like, I'm not jealous. Alex is like, you had a private jet. Like she just makes comments and like. Yeah, Carolina is very insufferable, to be clear. Like that's, she is doing the most.

Yeah, the sitting at the table, eating alone, pouting. Like it's definitely, she's definitely putting on the Damsel in Distress act, but I do think the fact that these women expected her to turn down a conversation or cut a conversation short when Grant did pull her. It's like ridiculous. I'm with Dina. I'm with Dina on this one.

That's crazy. It's like, if you're sitting in silence with the assumption that you're gonna then prompt the conversation, that's her like taking him, you know? Versus like if she was genuinely just to the side like doing her thing, sure. Having a fun time alone. And then she just kept being like, well, how's your night? How's your, Since you're not asking us how our night is, how's your night? It's like, well, y'all aren't fucking friends with me.

I don't care how your night is. Yeah, I didn't really understand that line of questioning. How's your night? So how was your night? It's like, I don't know. How was your chat with Grant? So how are, and she's like, it's good as it could have been. And they're like, what the fuck?

Good as it could have been? It's like, y'all are attacking me. They were asking her as if like she was talking shit on them and you know. Was she not? She wasn't. She was heavily implying that I don't feel supported and welcomed here. Oh, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. It's like, y'all are attacking me. They were asking her as if she was talking shit on them.

Was she not? She wasn't. She was heavily implying that I don't feel supported and welcomed here. Her last two conversations were about other women and situations, so for them they're just like, so is there gonna be something else tonight? Everything about Carolina is premeditated.

Yeah. And I love her, but like. She deserves all the criticism she's getting. We're not defending Carolina. We're criticizing how the other women are handling someone who clearly is obnoxious and not, you know, but like they're also making her point, Carolina's point, which is like,

they're justifying her being obnoxious for them being mean girl. I mean, they are like the house. They're definitely being mean girls. Yeah, I think they're operating in a position where they already dislike her. So now it's like when you know you don't like someone and you know there's that one person

that everyone doesn't like, you operate differently with them where everything they does piss you off versus the things that actually deserve to piss you off. Right, so then why wouldn't Carolina just continue to piss them off? Exactly. Because she's not gonna become friends with them.

So it's like, why would I respect you now? You don't fucking respect me. But even Dina, like your best friend in the process, now she's like, girl, you're doing too much. So that's when you know, like it's not an us issue, it's a you issue. She's definitely doing too much. It was just more, that's an insane ask to be like,

yeah, you shouldn't, you know. For an attorney, it was a weird argument. Basically they were saying, prove your loyalty to us, the group, and turn down your conversation with Grant, and then we can talk. I thought it was like, be respectful to your best friends, the girls that haven't had a chance. Best friends?

That's how they sold it. Best friends? True. Those girls are not best friends. Dina was her best friend in the process. Not really. Okay. At all.

Yeah, about that. She stuck up for her one time and was like, I see my younger self in you or whatever. Like definitely. But also for Karolina to sit there and like on the log and not say like anything, I'm like, girl, you're like wasting all the time and then not even like saying anything.

Like you're being even more dramatic, you know? And to Zoe's point, the only person who should be throwing a little temper tantrum is the one person who didn't get a one-on-one this entire time. Like I for sure thought she was gonna go home. I will say, it was pretty fucked up of Grant to give Carolina so much security sitting on that rock being like, I'm locked. She like gave so many times where she's like, I don't think it's me.

I don't think it's me. I think I should go home. And he's like, listen, I'm locked in. Then sends her home the next night. Huh? That's crazy. But it's giving Parisa like here. I thought about you.

I got you. You rock. Way more. To a higher extent for sure. the next night, huh? That's crazy. But it's giving Parisa like here I thought about you, I got you rocks. Way more. To a higher extent for sure, but I'm just saying that I'm like the bait and switch is crazy. Yeah. Like, okay, like you're secure, you're special and then you're going home tonight. It would have been so much more respectful if in that moment where she's like, I don't think it's me, I think I should go home where he would have been like, listen, like, I agree, maybe there has been,

you know, and she could have been like, okay, I'm gonna go. But instead, he's like convinces her to stay just to send her home himself. I think in Grant's defense, I think the people running this show are very, they're in charge. Yeah. So it's like, I feel like the producers or whomever is in charge of everything, I'm like, you would never have gotten that like, I guess I'm the villain. Guess I'm crazy. Like the whole like after like, you already know somebody's spiraling. I'm like, you would never have gotten that like, I guess I'm the villain, guess I'm crazy. Like the whole like after, like you already know somebody's spiraling. I'm like, you know that the drama is going to ensue

at this after party. When Carolina and Grant were having a conversation, I, he said something, I wish I had the tape. I think she was like begging him to send her home. And he was like, there's like a time and a place for that. And it told me that Grant was like, didn't feel like he had the green light to send her home. In that moment, like it seemed like Grant was like,

oh, you know, we'll see at the rose ceremony kind of thing. And I think, you know, for different leads in different seasons, there's been a different environment and a different collaboration. You know, like when, way back when, when I was a bachelor, it felt like it was like we were making a show together. You know, they were like, you know, it was kind of a negotiation.

I'm like, help me find love, so to speak, and I'll help you make a great TV show. And it doesn't seem like there's a, you know, it's like, you're our bachelor, here are the rules, do this, do this. We'll make sure you find love at the end, but like, you know, that's the vibe that they're giving. Do you think the franchise is tanking? Do you think the franchise is tanking?

Do I think the franchise is tanking? I mean, like, it's obviously going through a bit of a shift. I mean, there's a lot, you know, was it Deadline that wrote that report? Yeah, it was a Deadline exclusive. Well, you know, the report that's out there right now, it's a lot of former employees basically airing grievances

about the people in charge now. Like, I know the people in charge, I know the people who left the show. I mean the reality is, is like, you know, what I've heard it described to me as like a game of Thrones. It's like after Mike Fleiss was like, kind of what left the franchise. There are a lot of people who felt passed over.

And they're the people in charge now. I think there's some hurt feelings with some of the people who got passed over. And yeah, it's a lot of politics. And then one of the people in charge came from Bachelor Canada, and other people have a certain feeling about that. But I think in the past, like when I was on the show,

the sense I got from the producers is that it was more collaborative. That there would be a lot of different meetings, a lot of different inputs. The rumor is it's less collaborative now, who knows? But in fairness to the people in charge now, obviously a lot of the people speaking are the people who are no longer at that company

and business is business. But isn't the stemming from like Jen Tran's season and kind of the whole like AFR of it all where they forced her to watch that and she was like, do I have an option? Well, that was one example. Well, the article kind of led telling that story. If you guys don't remember Jen Tran's AFR

where they made her watch, you know, the break or the engagement video with what's his name. And yeah, I mean, they claim that Jen knew. What has Jen said about it? Is she even off? Can she speak on it or is she still under contract? I don't know what she, what do they get, Sue? Jen asked Jessie Palmer, do I have a choice?

Well, that was during AFR, yeah. She could be, that could have been a performative comment. I think they probably gave her the heads up, but they might not have. I mean, they've definitely, it's reality TV. Like their justification when it comes to blindsiding contestants and even blindsiding their lead,

their argument is none of you are actors. We're not here to see you act and perform surprise. We're here to see your authentic reactions to these situations you signed up for. And so there's a lot of times where they did blindside people, you know, and producers have been getting criticisms since the beginning of the show, so they're kind of numb to it or immune to it.

So 50-50 whether they told her or not, but it does sound like with that story, there was a lot of people who like, a lot of other producers who thought this was a terrible idea, they were dismissed. They were ignored allegedly by the people in charge Do you still have like respect for the franchise or are you kind of respect? What do you mean? Well, we seem to kind of just like defend them a lot and I know obviously it's like you knew a lot of the people Who were there you're close to a lot of people who were there

I mean, I guess I always see both sides I have more friends who don't work there anymore than I have friends who work there. And I, you know, I'm aware of a lot of the frustrations. You know, like they say, business is business. So like, I can see why they're no longer friends with the people who are still there. You know, I wouldn't be, so to speak.

On their other side, I don't know. Like, I wasn't there when the decisions were made of who got got promoted who didn't get promoted but like yeah someone won you know. Do you think that they're like trying to revamp everything with pausing Bachelorette and then Bachelor in Paradise was on pause last summer and now we're finally getting it back and it feels like uh the schedule of this season of Bachelor is moving a lot faster so also correct me if I'm wrong like do we think that they're trying to speed up the process in six episodes that were already on? That's another thing too, yeah.

Cause it was always like, we're at home tones already. And literally when I was watching it last night, I was like counting in my head thinking, all right, like I remember filming. It's just like, well, what week of filming was that when we were, they're cutting a week short. I'm pretty sure like in Andy's season, we were in Marseille, France, week five. We were in Italy, week six. And then we were in Brussels a week short. I'm pretty sure like in Andy season, we were in Marseille, France, week five.

We were in Italy week six, and then we were in Brussels week seven. That was the week before hometown. So this is week six. So they skipped a whole week of dating. And like, didn't you, like didn't they used to have episodes where like whether it's two on ones

or like there might be like a week where nobody goes home or something like that. There's always someone goes home. There's definitely two on one. So, you know, they're getting to hometowns a week faster than they normally did pre-COVID. or somebody goes home or something like that. There's always someone goes home. There's definitely two on one. They're getting to hometowns a week faster than they normally did pre-COVID. I haven't kept that close of track on it,

but listen, budget cuts are all over Hollywood. They've drastically cut the budget of The Bachelor, even though it's relatively cheap to make compared to other shows. And so I think it's just a product of budget cuts. Really? Okay. Yeah. I don't know, Joey's season was wildly popular

and they kind of shit the bed after that. There was the whole Maria casting drama. Clearly Jen wasn't someone that they had planned for. That was pretty obvious, whether it was like, cause who else was being considered other than Maria? Daisy. Daisy. So Daisy couldn't cause of her health. She was a fan favorite.

Maria was a fan favorite, something happened with that. So then they kind of had to pick Jen, and they sold it as like, oh, your first Asian Bachelorette, but clearly, I don't think the show deserved any credit for that, because Jen was not even a top choice for them, so they threw Jen almost to the wolves, having not really casted for her. With Grant, they announced his being the bachelor

sooner, they did the same thing with Rachel Lindsay with an earnest attempt to try to cast people like. Authentic connection. Yeah, where they might be an authentic connection with Grant and the some of the women. This the way they're looking with Rachel and with Jen, there was, they're like, all right, Jen's your bachelorette,

we're filming next week. Yeah. You know, and so coming off the hype of. I remember it was a lot of the men like kind of coming out and being like, all right, Jen's your bachelorette. We're filming next week. Yeah. You know, and so coming off the hype of- I remember it was a lot of the men like kind of coming out and being like, I was- I was here for Maria. I was here for Maria, I was here for Daisy. Like we thought it was gonna be someone else.

So it just really put Jen in an unfortunate position. Her show didn't perform that well, like and not surprisingly, because there was no hype or no momentum. There's no, like they didn't really promote her season. Right. And then Grant kind of the same thing, you know, they seem to not really be investing in these

for whatever reason, I don't know why that's an ABC. ABC is the one who markets the show. Warner Brothers is the one who produces the show. For years there's always been conflict in terms of who gets to do what. There's like an internal conflict between ABC and Warner Brothers. And then there's always been conflict in terms of who gets to do what. There's like internal conflict between ABC and Warner Brothers. And then there's already an internal conflict between like Warner Brothers and the people making the show.

It does seem to be a huge mess right now. Do you think that seeing the success of Golden Bachelor kind of is making them look at the normal Bachelor different because it's like Golden Bachelor, so like probably and it's new and it's a different concept, whereas like Bachelor kind of has been running the same concept. It's the influencers on the Bachelor versus the people on Golden.

People genuinely looking for love and a connection on Golden. I think they only care about the ratings. Okay, yeah. It's his business. It's his business, right? And I think the ratings of Golden have done very well.

That being said, I don't know if it has the demo. Overall ratings aren't as important as the demo ratings. Demo ratings are ages between 18 and 45 or something like that. I don't know how the Golden franchise performs in that demo over say, their Bachelorette is in the number one performing show. It always has been. Then Bachelorette, again, it's not a good sign. But again, I think it speaks to like a lot of the internal turmoil going on there, a lack of like unity. I think there's a lot of budget cuts. I think there's that too. So, you know, who knows?

But I wish that wasn't going on because clearly it seems to be affecting the quality of the show. The show hasn't been, it hasn't been as good as it used to be. I mean, I'm enjoying this season, but like, it's just, it's shorter, there's not a lot of compelling storylines, you know, like, I don't know, it just- It doesn't seem as genuine. It's very seems like, it seems scripted, you know, it seemed because people, so many people know

like what works and what doesn't work, that it's like, it seems so scripted that they do the same thing every time. Criticism I've heard from people who used to work there is that the people running it now are very by the, there's not a lot of creativity, it's very, not scripted, but very staged, very structured, very planned out, very inauthentic, very like, you know, the producers basically, the people they talked about in this

Deadline story, the two in charge, they're making all the decisions, they're planning the show beat by beat, and they're leaving very little for authentic moments and authentic reactions. That's the feedback I've heard from people who have since left the show. Whether that is disgruntled employees or true,

remains me seen, because there is a lot of people who have left on bad terms from that franchise. I do think more and more is just gonna continue to come out as like, I do think and I hope that Jin Tran is able to speak about that AFR at some point in her life. Has she not spoken about it? I don't believe she has. Last time we talked to her was right after AFR

when she was just like, I tried to call Devin right before that happened to like kind of see what we were gonna talk about. He had the moment to like address stuff with me and then didn't even add AFR. But I think she obviously, I mean, she's under a contract. I think like once that contract's over, maybe she'll feel more comfortable to be like, listen,

like they threw me to the fucking wolves and they set me out there and on live television, they were like, hey, watch this back, knowing that the person beside me was like, listen, they threw me to the fucking wolves and they set me out there and on live television they were like, hey, watch this back, knowing that the person beside me was like, not the person in that engagement video and I didn't wanna do it. I told, you know, I'm curious to hear her side of it. I'll tell you this much, if they did tell her,

they 100% came to her and sold her on the idea of why it would be great for her, regardless of whether it was great for her or not. And then after they did whatever deed they do, they will follow up with the lead, they'll check in on their mental health, they'll make sure they're okay, they'll tell them it went great.

They'll cover their asses. They'll cover their asses, they'll tell them it went great, and then they'll be like, you can't tell anyone we told you to say that. She did tell us it was a whole lot to process, and that's why she was like, dancing with the stars was my way of like, I'm busy. Dancing with the stars might've been also her like,

hey, listen, go do this and be happy. Yeah. Or now she's- Her payoff. She is happy with a partner now, so. Yeah. From Dancing with the Stars? Yeah.

Should we get to some Love is Blind? We should. It's interesting, I'm so much more invested in Love is Blind than The Bachelor of like, people being real. There's more real conversation. I mean, to that point is like, The Bachelor has lost some of his authenticity.

Yeah. It's, well, let's just get into that point is like the bachelor has lost some of his authenticity. Yeah. It's, well, let's just get into it. Dave's the worst. Yeah. Dave's the worst. Yeah. Dave fucking sucks. Nasty, stinky.

Can we just go over the story? Dave heard from one of his friends and Lauren keeps asking, let me talk to them, who are these people? And he won't say. So Dave heard that Lauren was- So already we're suspecting if these friends aren't real. No, I think they're probably real,

but I think he's purposely not letting Lauren talk to them. Yeah, he was like, they're gonna come over. And his sister. And his sister. And his sister. Yeah. And his sister, who he won't shut up about, yes. For context, if you remember, when they were in the pods,

he had asked Lauren, like, oh, when was the last time you were in a relationship? And it was like, within the six months, or like soon before she got on the show. He then starts this rumor on camera when they're together in person after saying, well, I heard you were like in a serious relationship with this guy and then broke it off with him

to come on the show. And I knew this guy or like knew of this guy. She told him in the pods. She told him in the pods. She said she had an un-serious relationship recently before coming into the pod. And also none of this is right before the pods. That's the part where he's pitching it as if it's like, it happened two days before.

He literally said, you were with him the night before you left. And she goes, no, I wasn't. And he was like, well, that's what my friends say. And she's like, I wasn't. And her, her girlfriends are like, she was with us. And he's like, I just don't know what to believe. That's crazy. It's like, I think it's crazy and insane that these people all agree to do this thing to begin with.

Sure. To go on love is blind. I just think if you found out someone was like hooking up with someone on a regular basis like and you found out from friends that other rumors and like I don't think that makes him a bad guy for like not knowing who to trust. No one's saying he's a bad guy but I'm like you can't pretend to be precious about this when you got signed up for a show where you're engaged to someone you've never met in 30 days. Like, but you're precious about the idea

that she's been involved with somebody in a small town. Like, you're literally signing up to get married in 30 days to someone you've never met before. Of course, shit's gonna come out in 30 days. And she looks at him and she goes after, she's like, I'd love to talk to your friends about this. Like, I'd love to get on the same page. I'd love to, and he's like, yeah, you know, like maybe.

And then he's like, maybe we shouldn't. And then she's like, well, can you please stay here tonight? I feel really disconnected from you. And he's like, no, I'm gonna go. Like he doesn't give a fuck about her. He obviously clearly is texting his friends being like, dude, just like say anything so I can get out of this relationship.

But he's not into it. He's trying to get out of the relationship and he's doing it by humiliating her on national television. If you started dating someone who was actively on a regular basis sleeping with someone. Then don't go on a reality TV show to get married in 30 days.

Like you can't be precious about one thing. I'm just saying you're allowed to have some questions. He can have questions for sure. But he's not even listening to her. He has to listen to the answers. He's like. But he doesn't believe her. Why wouldn't he believe her? I don't know, it doesn't matter. He has no reason not to. Maybe he's. even listening to her. He has to listen to the answers. He's like. But he doesn't believe her. Why wouldn't he believe her?

I don't know, it just doesn't matter. He has no reason not to. Maybe he's. He's her fiance. They met two weeks ago. Exactly. So exactly. You wouldn't believe your fiance

who was the only person in the relationship that you're talking about. You're gonna believe your friends who are like four steps away from that relationship. I mean, I don't know who his friends are or how they know this girl or whatever. Exactly. But they weren't a part of the mean, I don't know who these friends are or how they know this girl or whatever. Exactly. But they weren't a part of the relationship. I don't know who these friends are.

Wouldn't you want her to go face to face with those people being like, what do you know about me that I don't know about myself and allow me to defend myself? And instead he goes, I'm gonna keep you separate because I don't see the result. No, I don't like how he's handling that. But that's what I'm saying,

because the truth. I'm only speaking on the fact that like finding out that someone in this situation had a fuck buddy for two months right before, how unserious was it? And I know she said it was unserious, but I'm just saying, sex is not a nothing thing. Nick, what else can, what do you mean? To men, it is absolutely fucking nothing.

Men can go around slinging dick and not give a flying fuck. Some of them, some of them it's not. So to her it was not, to her it was just sex. She clearly, she said that she's like black and white. She's like, listen, it was just sex. Imagine if like me and you in the beginning, we start dating and then like your friends are like, yeah dude, like she, I'm friends with like some guy

that she like used to hook up with. And like she was hooking up with him right before y'all started dating. And you were like, hey, I have a question about this, and I answered it, and then you're like, I just don't believe you. That's crazy. My friend said, and it's like, were they in the room?

I definitely wouldn't say I just don't believe you. That's pretty much what he's saying. I might, if you were telling me something different than people I trusted, who was like, yeah, so I found this shit out about you, it would probably affect me, it would probably rattle me. And if I had a decision about whether we had to get married two weeks from that, my judgment might be clouded.

I just think it's insane that he thinks he's in a position to judge her for being a single woman. Why is he, is he definitely judging? 120,000. Yes. Because he is. Because he's trying to act like in today's day and age that she's doing something,

that she might have done something wrong. If this was the other way around, I just feel like y'all would be not the same. Everyone's single, we don't give a fuck. None of us would be shocked. Yes. Before you go on this show, you're single. You can do whatever the hell you want.

Of course. It's like people on Bachelor, like before you start filming, you are single. You can do whatever you want. Like. It's like people on Bachelor. Like before you start filming, you are single. You can do whatever you want. Like you can fuck around with 20 people. You can fuck around with none, but like she's single. And the fact that he's being like, you shouldn't have been having sex with someone

before you came here is crazy. Yeah. Also let's read between the lines. Like whoever this person is that she was involved with is low-key a clout chaser. Like the friends were like, he came after me. He came after her. Like, and then he finally got Lauren. And then it's like, I don't is that she was involved with, it's low-key a cloud chaser. Like, the friends were like, he came after me, he came after her, like, and then he finally got Lauren, and then it's like, I don't know if you've seen,

now he's posting, like, mock photos of him as if he was casted on Love is Blind and, like, releasing, like, text messages with producers to bring him on to confront Lauren. It was made a psychotic. And it's clear that he will say anything to just, like, rattle someone's cage. It's clear he doesn't want Lauren and this guy to get married.

Exactly. It's clear he doesn't want success for Lauren. So he's like, oh yeah, dude, like, yeah, we were like fucking like the night before she left, dude. And like, she was like- Is he saying that? Yeah, to his friends, allegedly. But we haven't talked to him. We haven't talked to the friends.

So if this loser guy, fuck buddy guy is out there saying these, so he's making up rumors, allegedly, and he's telling these friends of Dave's who, like, fine, they don't know who this guy is, they're just like, yeah, this fucking guy is out there saying they did this. I'm just saying, Dave's immediately, like, just supposed to, like, blindly believe her,

no matter what. I'm not saying he's handling it well at all, and I don't like that he abandoned her that night, but the fact that he is supposed to just dismiss it outright and pretend he doesn't have questions or pretend he doesn't care, I just think is unrealistic in this setting. I think if it was a, if Lauren was like,

listen, yeah, I was in a full-on relationship, we'd been dating for six months and I like actually broke up with him to come on the show, issue, big red flag issue there. She's like, yeah, I was like having sex with someone. Like, yeah, I- It was friends and benefits. I can't have a problem with that.

I just feel like, you know, yeah, I understand it's 2025 and I understand hookup culture is like a farm, it's more acceptable, it's more prevalent, but like sex is not a meaningless thing to a lot of people. If you were just having regular sex with someone leading up to the show, regardless of who you are, the other person has a right to-

But you can't say you know what sex means to her. I don't know what sex means to her, but it might mean something to Dave. I'm just saying, and I know he's a man, but- He's the one who wanted to fuck her the first night in the vacations. It doesn't mean shit to him. That is true, That is true.

He's asking everyone, are you fucking? Are you fucking? Because we're not. I'm just saying sex isn't meaningless. But he's going around asking every other couple, is it, are you guys having sex? Because I'm not. Like, I just want to know if you are, so I can kind of gauge where I'm at. So I'm like, no, he's not precious.

He's only precious about it because it affects him or it's his way of getting out of things. It's, he's not being honest. If he was actually taking accountability or being like, I wanna figure out where this is, you would have her sitting down with the friends that are talking shit, and we would conflict resolve this. But instead.

What if his friends don't wanna be on the show? His friends do. He was literally like, I'm gonna text them to not come because I don't want them to sit face to face with you. Why would that be? They were gonna have a full on dinner with him. I just think. And he pulled the plug.

I'm just like the idea that like fucking is meaningless and sex is meaningless is crazy to me. But now you're making it a macro thing where we're talking about two people as to how he's behaving. You guys are just like, oh it's fucking, it's nothing. They weren't serious. To some people it's nothing.

We have three people in this scenario. We have Lauren, we have this guy that she was fucking, and we have Dave, and to all three of them, clearly sex is meaningless. Dave wanted to fuck the first night he met her. So clearly it was like meaningless to all three of them. Not to keep it going, but you're definitely right that Dave is intimidated or insecure about Lauren and that relationship,

but I just, I don't think that's her fault necessarily. I don't think it's her fault, and I think he's definitely handling it poorly. I just think he is allowed to feel a certain way about the fact that she was in a physical relationship shortly prior to coming on the show, and I don't think that makes him a bad guy. I think if she asked him,

when was the last time that you shared any moment with any other woman? Moment? It would be probably the day before I left for the show. I don't think it would be months or years prior to him going, I don't think his life stopped when he got the opportunity to maybe potentially go on Love is Blind.

I don't know, but when people ask my advice before going on these shows, one of the things I say the most to them is be very careful about your dating life and leading up to going on these shows because it will come up. If a show is about getting married or engaged, your intentions about taking this experience seriously will be questioned. It always has been.

I don't think Lauren has shown us any inkling that she hasn't taken this seriously. I don't think that they're gonna make it. I don't think they're gonna make it either. Daniel wasn't following or Taylor. Yeah. Taylor checked the unfollowers app. Yeah.

I mean, a lot of drama for nothing. What is that all, is there a lot of drama that went nowhere? Yeah. I feel like it's gonna come full circle though. I think she freaked out and had like a panic. No, are you referring to the time where like season, like episode five started and she's like half looking

and then like she's like, I don't know, I have so many followers and then she just kind of stopped. No, she said, oh my God, so many people have unfollowed me. The fact that she has that app tells me more than I need to know. Literally. It does, but also I'm reading into the teaser a lot, but there's like a clip of a blonde woman,

it could be anybody, but I'm assuming it's Taylor, in the wedding dress, crying, walking back to the car after walking into the room. And that to me is giving, maybe she found out that he actually was there. Or they just were like, yeah, he just was like, yeah. Or that too. Or he was too short.

You could be a stocking. Typical like, hey. Well, to your point, I wonder if, well. There's no other blonde right now, So that's why I'm like. Sarah. If they're not together, if Daniel and Taylor aren't together at the reunion, it'll be interesting if she's like,

actually I went back and he was following me. She's like, now I've had more time to look. And I was able to follow her. One of the mutuals saw him and was like, that's the man. It was actually TikTok. Does he not look kind of like JoJo Siwa? He does, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

He does. Yeah, no, I can't un He does, yeah. Yeah, yeah. He does. Yeah, no, I can't unsee it. They like all, like- He does, deeply. Everyone's putting all these men in the same thing and they're being like, this is the exact same man. Like it's Amazon Prime, it's like, She-Mean, it's Twitch. It's two day delivery.

Teemu, it's like- Yeah. There's no facial hair. Virginia wanted a prenup, and that was one of the other things. Good for her. Good for her. You're on Love is Blind, get the prenup on That was one of the other things. Good for her. Good for her. You're on Love is Blind, get the prenup on Love is Blind.

You met him two weeks ago. But they should all sign prenups. His family though is kind of like questioning it. It's weird to have an issue with that when you literally have just met them. We don't know anything about each other. It's also giving at this point, she has more money than him.

Well yeah, she's got a nicer place. She wants to be a millionaire soon. Or doesn't give me at this point, she has more money than him. Well, yeah, she's got a nicer place. She wants to be a millionaire soon. Or doesn't understand, maybe she's giving Tom Schwartz, who wanted a prenup and he had $200 to his name. I think she walked into his apartment, saw a studio with 500 pairs of $700 shoes and was like, hmm, we're not giving financially responsible.

The way they talk about her age on this show is wild. It's crazy. She's 33 years old. She's an absolute stunning of a human being. And they talk about her as if she is 74 years old. How old is he? Three years younger? 28, 29.

That's crazy. Why are they making this age gap thing such a storyline? That's true, yeah. There is no age gap. He looks 10 years older than me. He looks 45. True. Cause when they talk about the high school,

she's like, we weren't in the same class. We wouldn't have been there at the same time. And it's like, three years is not that big of a difference. Yeah, like, babe, you're a senior. Yeah. Is she making it more of a big deal or is she? She's joked about like how people see her as like a young person.

She's like, well, I'm actually a successful doctor. But then they're also using that storyline as a way to like. She's also only 33. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I can tell you a big issue that I have that I just can't get over. Monica's story about how she leaves piles of clothes just stashed in her closet to put it on with a spider nest.

This was giving Nick and Natalie share a cup. The communal sock. I'm sorry, I'm gonna be so honest with you. I really do skip through Monica and Joey because I just can't. Well, she said that she likes to leave her clothes in a pile and she doesn't fold it, but they're clean. And she said one time she put on a pair of jeans

and saw this white stuff in her crotch. So it's like, yeah, you know what you're thinking it is. And then she goes, and then saw something crawl out of it. And it comes out that it was like a wolf spider who built a nest in the crotch of her pants. She said this on TV. She said this on national television. Because she would wash her clothes

and just throw it on the floor and then pick her clothes from the floor. Ew. Yeah. Well, Joey was like, we can't do this. We have to, you know, he and then pick her clothes from the floor. Ew. Yeah. Well, Joey was like, we can't do this. We have to, you know, he's like, we're gonna fix this. She's filthy. And Joey, who you're not expecting,

likes to like fold his clothes. He likes to put everything away. I didn't see the way he folded t-shirts and that was, yeah. It's like, you're putting too much fucking effort into it. He also said he's like gotten over OCD in the past. I don't think he's gotten over it whatsoever. The way he was folding those t-shirts,

was very much getting OCD. When she was like, you don't like that fold, he's like, I do not like that fold. I did also see the part where he was very much, she was like, they're worried that you're not good enough for me and he was like, do they think anyone is ever gonna be good enough for you? And she was like, no.

Her sister? Her sister, that was awful. It was real projection city. Yeah for you? And she was like, no. Her sister? Her sister, that was awful. It was real projection city. I was like, I agree with him. Oh, when she was like. I'm supposed to get married? Yes, when she was like, I'm supposed to, but I guess it should be you.

The sabotaging your sister's relationship because you're not in a relationship and gonna get married, that's some distict shit. Well also, isn't the sister's boyfriend Monica's ex? Monica's ex boyfriend? Is she? Or like they didn't date, they went on like two dates

or something and then she, and then they weren't into each other and then she ended up with. I missed that, but that gives me like douche pimples. I'm like, there's gotta be more people in your life than to be dating somebody that your sister dated. Well, the problem I really had with it, it's like whatever, don't like your sister's boyfriend or whatever, have a problem with the show, fine.

But she was basically accusing Joey of being manipulative and she was like, he clearly says things because he's saying the right things. She accused him of lying and being an actor and being disingenuous. Like that's a pretty strong accusation. Especially for like what, 30 minutes of meeting someone? Yeah.

Like, and he's just being kind to your family? Solely based off the fact that like, you're not about to get married. Yeah. And your younger sister is. No, and she was like, he's not your type. Your type's a six foot five Italian model. And even she was like, is that not everybody's type?

And she's like, and then she's like, well, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to get that. And her sister's like, well, I think you should hold out. First of all, six, five, specifically, first of all, take out any type of ethnicity or like, you know, preferences around that or occupation, but six, five. Yeah. How many, what's the percentage of men that are six, five?

It says less than 1%. Less than 1%. Now, what were her other qualifications? Italian model. How many of them, how many, now just Italian. Percentage of Italian men? Over 6'5".

Compared, no, listen, it's- It's gonna be nothing. Less than 1%. Less than a half a percent? The average Italian male height is around 5'9", and it is very uncommon to find men exceeding 6'5' in Italy. So, already a rarity in general for the entire nation.

Yeah. But her sister is like earnestly telling her sister to like forego this guy who seems to be like pretty nice and have a really good chemistry with her. She needs to be a really, really, a real gentleman. Even Andrea Denver from Summer House, Italian model, six, two. He's six, two. So even then the one Italian model, 6'2". So even then, the one Italian model I know

off the top of my head does not hit 6'5". What did y'all think of the Sarah and Ben? Like there's some girl who posted a TikTok crying and she like apparently was with you and he's- I wouldn't be surprised if there was a DM here or there. Yeah, no, this one was weird. His reaction was weird. Yeah, it was the reaction to more so, like where it was kind of like cagey, like, yeah, I don was weird. His reaction was weird. Yeah, it was the reaction too, more so,

like where it was kind of like cagey, like, yeah, I don't know why she posted it, but I've seen it, so I don't need to watch it again. So who posted the TikTok? Weird that he saw it, some girl that apparently used to be in involvement with Ben, she posted a TikTok, I guess, whenever they announced it, the Minneapolis is filming.

I feel like I heard about this way back in the day when it happened. Probably. I brought it up before. And she was like crying and being like, these men, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I feel like I heard about this way back in the day when it happened. Probably. I brought it up before. She was like crying and being like, these men, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I don't know exactly what she said. She didn't show the video.

Well, his side of the story, Ben said, they met on Tinder, never hooked up, end quotes, I just honestly don't remember. It was four years ago and it was a short amount of time. She's claiming that they were like full on in a relationship hooking up and then he just ghosted her. Yeah. And that there were like a lot of DMs

and that's where he was like, well, there might be a DM or two, like, I don't know. But she always DMed me is what he said. Yeah. So he believed. Like, well, what does that even mean? Exactly. I don't know.

I don't have enough information. I think as Sarah said, like, there's definitely gonna be more that comes out and she was like, you better tell me everything right now because if more comes out, like, I will not trust you. Yeah. And it looked like he had the fear of God in his eyes and he was like But it's a little tough if you even if let's say you believe his story his story of being four years ago

If someone says listen if anything comes out no matter what I will never believe you and he's just This this is a person who based on his story is already coming out saying shit I could see why he still has a look of like, yeah, I mean, I don't think anything's gonna come out, but like, fuck, you know, like. Yeah, on Ben's behalf, like it was four years ago. Like, I don't remember stuff that has happened four years ago, like, especially if to him,

it was like such a blip of a relationship, clearly to her, it was more if she's saying that they were full on dating or whatever. I do think it's weird that he was already aware of this TikTok video and didn't bring it up to Sarah. Like she had to find it on her own. And that he, yeah, he went on a blocking spree and like did not bring it up to his fiance.

When like, hey, so there's a TikTok out there. Like this girl I was with four years ago. She's a little upset. It's a little weird, but I can at least empathize with why he was unsure about the time, like doesn't have his phone on him. I don't know. These people are so like-

No, they were out. He had his phone enough to go and block her. No, I get it. But I'm saying they're in this like science experiment. I just think you guys don't really appreciate just the mind fuck that it is to be in this social experiment they're in. So to criticize their choices they're making in it, you know, I think it's easy from our

position to be like, he should have said this and he probably should have. I think it's a weird thing to call someone your fiance, which I get they are engaged, they're about to get married, who's also someone you didn't know three weeks ago. It's just a mindfuck. It's a weird thing. I don't think there's a right answer. He was probably hoping, there could have been a producer being like, I don't know, she's fucking crazy.

This shit always happens at the time. It's not a thing. Don't bring it up. How many times have I brought up things to like friends or girlfriends at the time and they were like, why'd you tell me that? You know, like I didn't need to know that, you know? And it was an earnest attempt to be honest. It's not that big of a deal.

It's not that big of a deal. Like post-bachelor, like after I was the bachelor and I was in a relationship, there was things that I really wanted to be transparent and honest. And there was a lot of things where it was like, I didn't need to know that, thanks for telling me. And it'd be, you know, so I don't know. I don't think it's that simple.

I do think it's weird that these people are trying to make such big deals out of what these people were doing before doing on the show. I think there's a lot not going on this season. And I think you're seeing- Like I don't care that Ben was in a relationship four years ago and ghosted the girl.

I don't give a fuck. Four years ago? I don't care that Lauren was fucking a guy before she went on the show. I don't care. Ben was in a relationship four years ago and ghosted the girl. I don't give a fuck. I don't care that Lauren was fucking a guy before she went on the show. I don't care. Like, yeah. Well, four years ago. They didn't even have sex, he says.

Even if they did. You met on Tinder? It's hard when you say like, this never happened and you're like, well, I don't remember. Traders. Traders, well, we'll keep it short and sweet because we do have Martin Kove coming up here more momentarily, but like, I think my biggest takeaway

is if I go on Traders ever, if I ever get the opportunity, I don't think I'll be able to give this many shits like Danielle and Carolyn. Yeah, I mean, the performance from Danielle when Carolyn got voted out was the most. I imagine they're gonna be sad, you know? Like I get they're sad, I get they're excited,

but they're really leaning into this being like life or death. I was so betrayed. You got a traitor out. It's a game. Why you're breaking down in tears. It's a game show. Danielle specifically is the one doing too much.

Doing too much. Well, according to Krishel, who was here last week, I mean, the fact that she's swearing on family members, another thing I won't do if I go on Traders, like I don't care if I'm a faithful, I don't care if I'm a traitor. I mean, the fact that she's swearing on family members. Another thing I won't do if I go on Traders, I don't care if I'm a faithful, I don't care if I'm a trader. If you ask me to swear at my kids, I'm like, fuck you. I think the fact that they didn't air any of that

is more telling. Like why are they protecting Danielle in that sense? Why wouldn't air that? That's something that I'm sure people would love to hear, the audience. I think they appreciate how intense she is. I think they appreciate just how giving of the moment they're leaning into.

And I think for them to air that would make, Danielle is making excellent TV. She's been, I mean, we can debate whether it's kind of shady to swear on your kids. I don't hate Danielle as much as everyone else does. I think she's a savage. I mean, like, hard to watch, whatever, but she's an absolute fucking savage.

We all like fond over boss and Rob. Well, fuck man, he's a distant memory. She's outlasted all the traders. No one thinks she's a traitor. I mean, no one thought Caroline was a traitor. And the way Danielle set up Caroline and like absolutely just eviscerated her was just really, I mean, fuck man, she's fucking a killer.

I have two thoughts. I think nobody thinks she's a traitor because of what she said that they cut out, that they're like, there's no way. Like apparently Delora said there's no way anybody would like swear on their grandchildren, like it's not worth it. And then also it's like, they're all gone,

all the other traders are gone because Danielle decided to be me before you and sabotage everybody else. Yeah. So she ruined the game. She made it all about it. And it makes sense that if she's going to what's her name? Do you think do you think she told Brittany she's a trader? She's recruiting her for sure.

Do you think before she recruited her she went to Brittany and was like, hey, I think Brittany knows she's a traitor? She's recruiting her for sure. Do you think before she recruited her, she went to Brittany and was like, hey, no, no, no. I think Brittany knows she's a traitor. I think Brittany suspects now that she, I think she knows now before the end of the season, the episode ended before Danielle took off her hood. I think she even said it, it'd be obvious.

I think she definitely is expecting Danielle to be underneath that hood. But I don't think she told her. And I think Danielle, based on what we heard about Krishel, is that if that's all true, Danielle is seriously worried about her being, I think she realizes she said some crazy shit, and that's what's protecting her. And she deserves to, I don't know.

Maybe we should no longer believe people who say things like that. After the season, I think everybody's gonna be like, don't trust. I swear to God, I think everybody's gonna be like, don't trust. I swear to God, I don't believe in God, you know? Oh yeah, didn't Bob the Drag Queen say that? I think Danielle was doing a whole,

and anyone that knows Bob, like as soon as he said that, me being a fan of Bob, I knew exactly where that was going. I knew it was a joke. I think Danielle was probably trying to do what Bob did. Maybe she's telling a joke. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I don't know Danielle outside of the show, but I know Bob from other shows. Maybe Danielle, like her, maybe for all we know, in Danielle's family, our circle of friends, they think swearing on family members is the dumbest fucking thing. It means nothing, and it's something people do. And they're like, sure, I swear on my fucking cousins,

because who gives a fuck? Because like none of that matters, and they're like, sure, I swear on my fucking cousins, because who gives a fuck? Because none of that matters and they're not superstitious people and they think it's stupid. So why wouldn't they air it? I was gonna say, yeah. Because they still wanna protect, because I think they still wanna protect their traitors

and they still wanna protect how crazy everyone's losing their minds and it makes, because it makes it more dramatic, if we knew that Danielle said that, we would be like, that's why people aren't suspecting Danielle, as opposed to being more like, why aren't people suspecting Danielle? It makes for better TV.

Yeah, because Traders operates on a way of like, the fun of Traders is watching everyone look stupid. When you know who the Traders are, and you get to watch people look a Trader right in the face and not realize they're a Trader, it's incredible because you're watching, you believe that you're watching people be dumb. Yeah, well, Tom and Dolores.

I was gonna say, I love that they just keep throwing their votes and voting for each other. Yeah. It's like, girl. Like, what is going on here? Nobody. It's the most delusional thing. It's so petty. It's awesome. It's so true, though. Listen, I heard what everybody else had to say,

but you know what? I don't want to. I just don't trust you, Tom, it's you. They're always like, I don't have else had to say, but you know what? I don't like you. I just don't trust you, Tom. It's you. They're always like, I don't have enough evidence. And they both know the other one is a faithful. No, they're both saying it like they believe that the other person's a traitor.

100%. They just want the other one gone. Like at this point, it's Iver, Gabby, and Dylan at the table. It's like everybody else is just throwing their votes for no reason. Well, Gabby seems like she's like on to it and catching on at the table. It's like everybody else is just throwing their votes for no reason. Well, Gabby seems like she's like onto it and catching on what's happening.

So I'm hoping she executes before she gets executed. I worry for her every day. Danielle and Caroline made a huge mistake by not recruiting Gabby as a trader. The fact that it was that it was Brittany or nobody. Right. Caroline's not wrong though. They recruited Brittany.

Caroline was absolutely right for saying no. Danielle was absolutely wrong for bringing anyone but her. Yeah. Well, that's on Danielle. Well, although she got, she did, I don't know, or not. She got her way. Isn't the lore that on big brother, it was Danielle and Brittany and then Brittany backstabbed Danielle.

Yes. Also, what do you think about forgetting about, I know we're all coming at Danielle here for like, you know, swaying on her kids. Little fucked up of Carolyn to go to Dylan and be like, this is why people like judge me and not take me seriously, make Dylan feel fucking bad about like people not believing her.

That's the thing, this is all a game of manipulation. That's what I'm saying. So like who gives a fuck? Carolyn was speaking her truth though. Like the thing, this is all a game of manipulation. That's what I'm saying, so who gives a fuck? Carolyn was speaking her truth though. That is true, she's always seen as the quirky, weird person and people don't take me seriously, so that's true. But she was a traitor.

But she was leaning into that narrative to protect herself. Yeah. But I didn't talk. And then going to Dylan and making him feel like he had judged her in a wrong way, and what he did, he started picking up on her dishonesty and then she made him feel bad for it. I don't think that's us. Her reaction at the chest thing when they were like,

Dolores was like, oh, well, like you kept, like Carolyn, you were saying, Tom, you were on it. And she was like, no, I didn't, I didn't say that. If she just would have been like, well, he was really pitching himself, I don't know. He really was convincing me. Like it would have played so much better, but because she was like, huh, no, what, me?

I didn't say that. I didn't say anything. She certainly choked. And that moment, Joan's like, oh shit. Yeah, we are. I think her saying that she's been bullied in the past is not the same as swearing on your grandchildren. I agree.

I don't. I also think both of them don't really matter because it's TV. Oh, it's also, yeah, a total fucking game. Yeah, for sure. It's chill as fuck. But if we're gonna call Danielle out, I think Caroline is no different.

And also, am I wrong, but if I were gonna recruit somebody as a traitor, I'm recruiting Dylan. No, because then it's like Pete, where he turns it down. I don't think he had the option to turn it down. They're not allowed. It was either you turn it down or you go home. Before they were, now they're not.

Yeah, this one, they- The second one though, or the first one before. No, I think you're wrong. Now that Caroline's gone, Brittany does not have the option. one before. No, I think you're wrong. Now that Caroline's gone, Brittany does not have the option. But before. Before I believe. They did. They did. But this one they don't.

So that's what I'm saying is that I'm like, I would have- Dylan would have had the option. True though. Well, but she, that's the Danielle show. She doesn't care about the people. That's what I'm saying. I'm like, we're like, the most like unsuspecting person that everybody knows is a faithful,

like why would you not want to recruit that guy? Force him. You know what? Force what force also everyone thinks that both traders are girls right now So why would you not grab a guy and flip that it's cuz she knows Brittany's gonna go to bat for her Yeah, so Brittany's gonna be the deflection I don't think Brittany's actually gonna go to bat for her cuz at the end of the day they all want to win Yeah, so Brittany's gonna cut her throat throat just like she did on Big Brother. Brittany's done it before, she'll do it again. Exactly.

I hope she does. I'm really excited to watch what happens next. We'll see. Well, up next, we have a very endearing conversation with Martin Cove. You know him from the hit series Cobra Kai, also from the Karate Kid movies. He has some great, endearing stories,

obviously, about his time on Cobra Kai. It was a great chat with Martin. I look forward to listening to it, and that is up next. Yeah, it's kind of one of the things I'm working on now. Can I take it out of this? Yeah, sure. What is this? Is this a comic book?

That's a graphic novel of four issues, four issues of a comic book called The Prodigal Son that we're developing into a series. And there's a convention in Glendale. In Glendale this coming week, and then I'll be signing there. And I own it. And we're going to do it as a series. It's about a gunfighter that I'll play who's killed everything. And there's a 12 year old kid that he bonds with and they exchange moral fiber between them. And they each learn how to be human. The kid learns how to be a survivalist and I learn how to be a human being.

So that's your character right there. Yeah, yeah. If you open it up full, you'll see. Well, the character is all through the book. He's the lead and he's the man in black. And they're both on a mission to get this bad gang that I at one time ran. And I was ostracized by my son, who in real life, my son will play the leader of the gang. And it's really a good story. It's very much like John Crease in Cobra Kai, you know. Wow. So we should talk- How long did it take you to write that?

I wrote all the broad strokes, the treatments for each four issues. One of my partners, Don Hanfield, he wrote the dialogue in the comic, in the captions. And then we had an artist do the artwork. Wow. It was beautiful artwork. Yeah, it's really incredible artwork.

Oh yeah, and I kind of see you in there a little bit. Oh yeah, I find that the comic book world doesn't care what you look like. So in a couple of issues, you could see, as Martin Cove, a couple of issues, you would know if it's me or Elvis Costello. I mean, it's like, and they don't care. You know, it explained to me that it's at the hands of the artist, you know, and I don't really,

you know, I'm a comic book collector of TV and movie comic books, you know, 60s, Westerns and all, but we'll talk about this through the thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're kind of already talking about it. Are we recording? Yeah, we're recording. We're just-

Martin Cove, everybody. Yeah, Martin Cove, everybody. I'm very excited to have you, man. I've been a fan of the Karate Kid franchise for, well, like since I was a kid, Karate Kid 2 might be one of my favorites. That opening scene, you know, where you're punching through the glass, it was very cool. Obviously, cool for Kai coming out.

So, very excited to have you. Very cool for me. Thank you. Yeah, younger me was, yeah, it's, you know, I get very excited when I have guests like yourself on the show. You know, I kind of started the show and then never thought I'd have people

that I've known my whole life and just was fans of and watched as a kid growing up, so it's very cool. I, you know, it's interesting when that happens, you know, it's like when I was Sean Connery's standin' in 1972 in a movie called The Anderson Tapes. I just started acting and there I was, working with Sean Connery and I was a glorified extra. It was called a photo double.

You know, you stand in, line up a shot. You know, it was like my second year in the business and the most fascinating thing I learned from him and he was working with lots of actors then who were very popular, were gone now. Martin Balsam, Jack Warden, just Diane Cannon, you know. I learned how to listen from this guy. You know, it was really interesting.

He had a plot to rob this fifth Avenue building and he had to get a lot of people's cooperation. And the greatest thing that I learned from Sean Connery being there for six, eight weeks was how to listen in a scene. You know, and he was a great guy. I bumped into him years later, played tennis with him over here in Motor Avenue, opposite Fox, and it was great.

I mean. Yeah, who won? Well, it was a very funny story. We can't really tell it aloud here because there's a lot of cursing. You can curse. You can curse here? Mm-hmm.

It's up to you, but we allow it. Yeah, so we allow it. Yeah. So we're playing tennis. I bump into him. This is like 15 years later. And I finished Cagney Lacey and I finished Karate Kid 1. And I was a little established. And I said, Shonda, you remember me?

And he's looking for a tennis game. And this is probably 85, I think. And he says, no. And I said, well, okay, we're hit. We're hitting and he's hitting everything into the net over my head. He played terribly. He had a bad back in tennis wasn't his game. He played golf. So every time he hits the ball over the net, he screamed, fuck, fuck, bitch,

son of a fucker, you know, screaming out loud. And I'm dying. I'm dying on the other end of the court, hysterical, because I'm saying to myself, shit, I'm playing tennis with James Bond and he curses just like me. You know? And it was just, it was the height of the day. You know, it was a good guy. Really good guy. Did you finally tell him how you knew each other after the game?

No, I asked if he remembered me at the very top of what we chatted at the beginning when I saw him, he's looking for a game and he didn't remember me. Yeah. And I said, John, do you remember me? I was just standing and he says, no, but you want to play. So, yeah, sure. Yeah, it's good. Isn't that great how like, you know, we remember those stories from so long ago

and they stick with us and, you know, just hearing how you even got into acting and here you are now, so many years later, replaying a character that was so iconic and like the eighties, it just like, just, you know, kind of, it always sticks with you. It's always fun to hear those like throwback stories. The character was, you know, a very one-dimensional character in the movies.

But when we did the series, I did not want him to be anything really, but vulnerable and have an arc and have a lot of colors in his emotional colors. And people to learn why he was the way he was in the movies, you know, tough, hard, one dimensional, you know, and they did it. They wrote those things and it made me feel really good, especially the, in the end, you know, season six where he has, you know, there's so many people that there are so many interviews and my son reads me all the interviews and you know, there's so many, you know,

I guess they're not really interviews. I actually, you know, criticisms or appreciation in the sense of a review of the final season and all the ones that see more of what happened to me, they wanted to have more development of the redemption. Yeah. That makes sense. And I thought that was really good because it made me feel like, well, you know, Johnny Lawrence is the lead of the show, but that this tough guy had enough

redemption through the season because six is good for the character and he had enough redemption that people wanted more of that and it wasn't something you saw in the character because he, you know, he's tough. He was very moral, but it was his way of the highway, you know, very impatient character. And a lot of those residual effects that playing John Crease stayed with me for a long time. You know, he stayed, he finished five years, five months a year, four months a year. And some of that darkness was hard to rub off. It was, you know.

Yeah, did you, were there people like in the height, with credit in the movies playing this villainous character that was so kind of rugged? I mean, John Kreese was a really good bad guy in the best possible way, but I imagine fans of the franchise, did they treat you a certain way sometimes where they kind of confused John versus Martin?

I would go to Malibu and be in the supermarket and I'd all of a sudden get nailed in the lower back, like punched hard. What? And it was a little kid, I'll never forget. It was a little kid and it was in the market back, like punched hard. What? You know, and it was a little kid. I'll never forget. It was a little kid and it was in the market basket. I think years ago and he nailed me and he looked at me and he says, you hurt Ralph. You know, and I was like, I couldn't do anything as a kid was a little kid.

He hit me so hard, you know, right in the gun and the lower, the hip. And, you know, people were affected by that. You know, they really thought that he was so one dimensional, so tough. I remember John Avilsen coming to me, you know, I try to smile a little bit. The Karate Kid 1 movie. And he came up to me, he says, Martin Kove, I don't want the Marty Kove charm. I don't want the twinkle.

I want death. So I said, okay. Now I just finished a lovely movie for his son, Ash Avilson, which it's a terrific little movie and it's called The Queen of the Ring about the first female wrestler. And I play a character with a terrific little movie, and it's called The Queen of the Ring about the first female wrestler. And I play a character with a lot of vulnerability, with a lot of enjoyment of the female warrior.

And I give, you know, wrestling, women in the wrestling world were not allowed to wrestle until you couldn't wrestle in California or New York until 1972. So women in the 40s and 50s and 60s, I was the promoter, the wrestling commissioner actually. And I played this character and not until the 50s did he give this woman, her name was Mildred,

a license to wrestle because this wasn't happening. And he was, he truly believed that women could wrestle and it could be a good entertainment. And he did it and he promoted it and helped her get started in the Midwest. And then it all exploded and she became very wealthy. And the, I guess, the point of no return for women in that sport, you know, because she went ahead and wrestled men. And so it was cool.

Wow. You know, so it's really funny you come full circle, you know, his father had me playing this one dimensional, you know, soldier of death, you know, and then and then now I'm playing last year did this movie, and Ash is a wonderful writer, and John's gone, but Ash directed and wrote this wonderful film. Do you find the vulnerable characters to be harder to play than the one-dimensional ones,

is because you kind of have to channel some of your own vulnerabilities sometimes, versus just kind of playing a bad guy, or are they both equally have its a bad guy or they both equally have its challenges. Well, they both equally have their challenges, but you know, in my work, I'll go back into personal situations, which I can, if I have to play something very vulnerable, like with Johnny Lawrence at the end, anytime it's vulnerability, I bring in some personal situations, whether it be with family or my ex-girlfriend

who we were together for seven years and broke up 12 times and it was very volatile. It was always like this. So there was a lot to draw from. And a lot of those emotions were emotions that were impatience and my way of the highway, all the stuff that came out of John Crease. So it like rubbed Martin Cove and then Martin Cove was allowed to use it and personalize it for other things involving the character,

per se vulnerability, per se sadness. And so it's kind of was interesting because you could use a residual emotion gathered by the character and then ultimately use it in real life, if it works for you or not, and then use it again when you have to be vulnerable and kind and soft and gentle. So it was quite an interesting ride with this character. And my new project, Parodical Son, is the character is very similar.

And I look forward to that, to doing it as a series, you know, an old gunfighter set in his ways, like John Crease, you know, with a 12 year old kid who could be like a Johnny Lawrence and learning each of them, exchanging moral fiber with each other, learning how to be survivalists and a human being. See today, I don't think kids have any heroes. I think when I grew up in the sixties, it was 35 Westerns. You're both too young for that, but there were 35 Westerns on prime time TV. So you could, you could choose your heroes. Then you had movies in the fifties and sixties.

You had movies with John Wayne about films like the searchers, who I modeled my character, John Kreese after because, you know, John Wayne played a real son of a bitch in that movie. And it was a great film. John, one of John Ford's best westerns. I just want to leave the legacy of kids having heroes. So when I go out, I know I've left, I've left the children a choice of having, you know, a hero.

And I think they'll look at this boy in the, in the prodigal son. It's a great comic book. There's four issues in that graphic novel. And this week we'll go to the comic convention and I'll see the climate for everything. That's awesome. Is this under, is this going to end production already? No, it's not in production because we're looking for a show runner right now,

right off the press. It's, it's the graphic novel that I own that was four issues and the four issues will hit the stores. And this is a comic book convention of all the owners of comic book stores. So it's here in Los Angeles. How did you find out that they were creating Culver Kai and bringing back kind of the Karate Kid universe? Was that a shock to you or did you hear rumblings of it? It had been so many years since the movies were out. What was that like for you to hear that concept

that they were coming out with this series? William Zapka told me and they went to Billy and went to Ralph and hired and got them aboard. And then they came to me, it's a funny story. They told me they wanted me to be in the 10th episode of season one. To attract people to watch season two, they were afraid to tell me this because they were so taken by the toughness of this character that they thought I would kick their ass

in the restaurant. We went to Dan Tanna's, and they told us, literally told it on the podcast. That was my children and myself. We had a podcast for a while, and they came as guests, all three writers, Josh, John and Hayden. And they said, we thought you were going to kick our ass

because we wanted you to come in and see episode 10 instead of episode five or six, which is what I wanted to come in on. I thought it was really funny that they admitted to that and they felt that. I never felt it at the meeting, you know, and it kind of made sense. Come in episode 10, set up, you know, season two,

and it did because no one thought I'd return. This 30 years and then the real story's only just begun. You know, it's my favorite line. So it was very interesting. And they made the deal, you know, because they have, they were different. You take so many hit movies, try to be television series and they fail. And this one was through the eyes of Johnny Lawrence. It was different. And everybody YouTube liked it, gave him an order for 10.

And then when YouTube did not want any more original programming, two years later, we had shown massive numbers. And especially it was during Covid, so everybody was home. And the show became a phenomenon on television. And then ultimately, Netflix bought it. Yeah, I mean, it's you're right. A lot of times when they do like a remake of a movie, it's, you know, they're just kind of redoing it.

Where like, Cobra Kai, you're right, it's a whole different avenue, a whole different angle. And like, it's really fascinating to see like these characters like Johnny and John, who are just like, you had this strong opinion about who they were when you watched those movies. And then to just to see the other side, the empathy or just what created them to be the certain way.

And then, you know, Ralph's character, you know, and then, you know, you see flaws in that character where in the movie he was the golden boy and this kind of righteous character. It's way more captivating that way. It'd be interesting to see if there's other shows or movies out there where they learn from Cobra Kai and kind of take that approach

rather than trying to just recreate a movie and adapt it to a TV series. You know, my son showed me a 15 minute pilot that he did. And the writing was brilliant. And this, I don't remember the author's name, but he had written many, many books. And this was a 15 minute pilot, very similar to, you know, Jack Reacher, you know.

And it was brilliant though. And why was it brilliant? Because of the writing. Because the writing, every line, and I looked at it on an iPad, I said, Jesse, this is fantastic. And he did it a while ago. And without the written word,

without the writing of Cobra Kai, I talk about it on interviews all the time. We wouldn't have had the success. You know, you could be, you know, John Crease, Tony Lawrence, Ralph Macho coming out of a hit movie. Sure. But you have to perform and come to the table with the good writing for all the other characters, for our personal problems.

You've got to come with development and these cats knew everything about our character two years in advance. So they knew where you were going to go. After season one, I went, met with mercenaries. I met with army rangers. I met with everyone that could have met John creaseese in the field, made notes on a legal yoga pad, five pages of notes, went to lunch. Everything I had on my notes, they already knew the flashbacks to introduce this character in a certain way, you know, in a snake pit, killing his captain, you know, they knew it all. They had it all planned out in their head. There was nothing I could say.

You know, none of my notes were pertinent. And I was, you know, I made a lot of notes because I always thought Karate Kid was my show. You know? So, you know, so if you treat it that way, then you know, you make an abundance of notes. And, you know, Cagney Lacey, I used to, I always thought it was Cagney Lacey and it was Becky, which is the character's name, you know, you make an abundance of notes and, you know, Cagney and Lacey, I used to, I always thought it was Cagney, Lacey, and it's Becky, which is the character's name, you know, it also was a good show.

And I think that show Cagney and Lacey was marvelous and would have been a big hit today. It was ahead of its time back in the eighties, you know, but, um, you know, I've been lucky enough to be part of some really good stuff. How do you feel like Clover Kai connected with its audience? I know when you were back in the day, you got punched by a little kid, but did you have any better moments with some of the younger fans of Clover Kai and you felt like you resonated or it spoke to them in a certain way? Certainly.

You go to a Comic-Con and I used to ask people, why do you like the show? And they say, well, the kids watch the show. And then we go up to them and say, would you like to see the movies that we grew up on with the same characters? And the kids say, well, okay, daddy. They all go and they watch the movies and the kids love the movies.

All the family will gather around the TV to watch Cobra Kai now. It's a family event. So there aren't very many family events on television. So that's how it became popular from the beginning. And then people say, you're the best villain on TV. We love to hate you. But when you got stabbed in the prison, cried. So I said to myself, you know,

I don't want to be known as a villain. I really don't. And the mere fact that they cried, I actually did my job. Yeah, you connected with them. I connected with them. And certainly in this sixth season, you know, lots of tears, you know, that last scene with Billy is wonderful. They wrote great stuff. Sure. Could I have been longer?

Could you see me survive the boat explosion? We shot a scene where you see my hand going to a magazine with just my ring and a cigar for it to be introduced into episode 15, the last bit. You don't see me, you just, you would see that and assume I made it. But it was a little hokey to have that boat blow up the way it did. And 24 hours later I survived. Smoking a cigar, reading a magazine.

Yeah. So it was kind of like, you know, too much. And I understood it when, you know, but, but in the articles you see people saying, well, John Kreese always survives everything. He says, why didn't someone throw him a lifeline? There was one picture of me being in the water. Someone someone aided and me holding on to a lifeline in the water. It's funny. You know, the reactions are enormous. You know, very popular. That's awesome. So you wish you can take that into, you know,

Prodigal Son, that kind of success. I'd love to have the writers be basically the showrunners of my, you know, my friend Lincoln Loggison is wonderful. He was a producer, the line producer on a variety of things, rough writers and did a lot of Larry Levinson's movies and did a touch of Larry Levinson's movies and did a touch of love for Hallmark for a picture that my son started and I play a restaurateur. And I liked those

kind of movies, even though it wasn't real schmaltzy like a Hallmark movie, it was about love and food. And I like to be able to do that again, you know, have the emotionality of what I displayed in the final season, utilized in other characters. That would be fun characters that are not bad guys. Are you sad to see it come to an end? Are you more excited about what this success of Cobra Kai can allow you to do? Like you just kind of talked about some of these other characters that you'd, you'd love a chance to play it more of.

Yeah. It allowed me to just be, have a level of confidence in your instrument and your work because anything practice makes perfect. So the mere fact you get a TV series, you can go act several times a week, no matter who you are, you're going to get better. Yeah. You know, I tell that to my son and he's really good. He you know, he he has a movie out that I produced, which is a film called The Gunfighters Deal.

And it's the story of a coward in a western town who makes a deal with the devil to be the fastest gun in the west. And then he tries to renege and the devil says no. It's a lovely little movie we shot about a year ago in Florida. And it's a western and it was just bought by the Shout Factory for distribution. And they're a western organization. They were co-produced this movie on streaming called Old Henry about Billy the Kid and they own Stagecoach, the original John Ford Stagecoach

from 1939 and all of Kenny Rogers Westerns, you know, the gambler ones. And they're just Western lovers. So they'll really nurse this piece, you know, the gambler ones. And they're just Western lovers, so they'll really nurse this piece, you know, properly. That's great, man. It's so fun to hear all these stories. Before we let you go, we have a fun game. I don't know, do you like games? Sure, sure. I don't imagine you watch any reality TV.

No, I don't watch reality TV. I assumed as much. Our audience likes a bit of- You're missing out. You're missing out. There are a lot of villains who are very, very dynamic in it. Yeah, you could channel some character. They have their villains, but we thought we'd play a fun game, a little crossover. Mary came up with this game.

You want to tell them the name? Yeah, it's called 80s Movie or Bravo Villain. So the premise being, these iconic quotes, did they come from a reality TV villain or an iconic villain? 80s movie or Bravo villain. So the premise being like these iconic quotes, did they come from a reality TV villain or an iconic 80s movie villain? Yes. And then you just have to guess.

It's so simple. All right. All right. All right, and so an 80s reality show villain. No, no, no. Will be a modern day reality TV villain or an 80s movie. 80s just movie. 80s just movie. 80s reality villain day modern day reality TV villain or an 80s movie. 80s just movie.

Reality present day reality villain. And you just have to guess. Correct. Got it. Yeah. All right. So we just show you a quote from either an 80s movie villain or a reality TV villain and it's your job to guess who said it.

Okay. All right. So first up we have fuck me gently with a chainsaw. Do I look like Mother Teresa? Oh, it's a good line. It's a good line. Very good line. Well, it's definitely an 80s movie because it wouldn't work on reality TV. So Mary, you are correct.

It was Heather Chandler from Heather's 1988. Wow. All right. So do I say if it's like that an 80s movie? It was Heather Chandler from Heather's 1988. All right. So do I say if it's like that an 80s movie? Yeah. Just the answer. You don't have to say who did it. You don't have to guess unless you know. Unless I know. Unless you know for sure.

That's good. If I know, I know. Yeah. If you know, you know. And they can they can curse in reality TV. So they might. They might be. They might say fuck. Yeah.

Can curse reality, even network reality. They just ble say fuck. Yeah. Concurring reality, even network reality TV. They just bleep it. Yeah. Oh, I got it. But they say it a lot. OK. All right. Next up we have this town needs an enema. This town needs an enema.

It sounds like something from a reality show. It says the Joker. It's Jack Nicholson. I thought it was Angie Catanaeva. No, Angie Catanaeva or Jack Nicholson in a Tim Burton Batman movie. You know, now that you say that, I kind of remember that line from the movie. Oh yeah, he has so many great lines. That was a great movie.

There was a movie that I always use as an example, it's an egotistical example. There's a movie called The Carnal Knowledge that he did back in 72. Yeah, yeah. And he did it with Ann Margret and he's in the bedroom and she's wailing and she says, I love you, I want you, I need you. And he says, and only the way Jack Nicholson can say it like that line, you know, he says, well, I'm taken. And he's getting dressed to leave and she's in the bedroom

and she wants him to just come back to bed. And he says, I'm taken. And she says, by who? You know, as if she's jealous. And what woman do you have? And he says, by me. You know, it's a great line. And the way he delivers it, you know, it's like,

I'm taken by me. You know? That's good. That's awesome. All right, next up we have, you can only get hurt so much before you get numb. Ooh, sounds like a very, someone giving someone else psychological advice. Yeah.

About a relationship. Hmm. Yeah. So reality TV. That's correct. That was Teresa. Judeis from the Real Housewives of New Jersey. Give me strength.

Yeah. Give me strength on all these. All right. Next up, I am the devil. And don't you forget it. Well, that could be Witches of Eastwick. I mean, it could be. Oh, my gosh.

Knows the name of the movie. Yeah, I just watched it. Yeah, it's such a good movie. You know that movie? Oh, no, it's a good movie. Jack Nicholson's again plays the devil and share Susan Sarandon and Shell Pfeiffer play three women in a little town and he

infects them because and that line would work. I am the devil and don't you forget. It's an incredible movie. So what you say a movie. It is not from the classic witches of each week. It is from Vanderpump Rules said by Stassi Schroeder. All right. Next up. So close. We have, you need people like me so you can point your fucking fingers and say,

that's the bad guy. I want this to be reality TV. It's such a good life. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, sure. If we're cursing him reality TV, it's definitely, yeah, reality TV. All right. It's Tony Montana from Scarface I really I thought this was gonna be so much more easy and then when I was making it I was like man There's so many classic moments in that movie Just cuz one is definitely an 80s movie. Yeah, since you're new here, I'm gonna cut you a break today. So why don't you make like a tree and get out of here.

Oh, wait, hold on. Wait, what movie is that? Is that a Clint Eastwood line? Oh no, wait, wait, back to the future. Yeah, that's me. Make like a tree and get out of here. There you go, ding, ding, ding. I love that picture of him.

Yeah, yeah, always back to the V-Za 2. He says in one, I just put part two because I wanted to put this picture of him in there because it makes me giggle. Have you seen the play? You know this play, last night we saw Harry Potter. Took the family to see Harry Potter and Back to the Future is coming to the Pantages.

Oh it is? And that's what I haven't seen. I've seen Moulin Rouge five times. I just love Moulin Rouge. It's incredible. And I've seen it in Nashville, I've seen Moulin Rouge five times. I just love Moulin Rouge. It's incredible. And I've seen it in Nashville, I've seen it in Tampa. You know, I just love Moulin Rouge. It's all about John Kreese.

It's all about, every line is about a relationship that didn't work out because of bad emotions, you know? And I think Moulin Rouge is brilliant because, and Back to the Future is supposed to be as good because they take lyrics from a variety of songs with Elton John, Tina Turner, whatever, and they'll take one lyric and put it into the dialogue of the show. And the show is all about like the movie, you know, a romantic relationship. But it's better because you're right there, you know,

and you just sit there and you cry. It's the best. Moulin Rouge, I hope it comes here again. Harry Potter was good. Harry Potter was really good. You have to know Harry Potter though. I mean, it goes fast. Did you read the books?

Yeah, but the problem is even when you read the books, what they depict on the stage, it's really a two day event in your life. In New York, it's two days. So here, they had to cut stuff and talk fast to get it all happening. And if you're not really well versed in everything that's going on in all those movies,

or in your books, you got, first of all you gotta sit in the third row because you gotta watch the faces and hear what they're saying. It's complicated but it's done very well. Okay. Really good, you gotta go see it. Okay.

All right, well, next up we have, if I give you a Chanel necklace and you choke on it, that's your problem, not mine. Wow. Chanel necklace. What does on it, that's your problem, not mine. Wow. Chanel necklace. What does your gut tell you? It's a reality show, my gut. Your gut.

Chanel necklace. It is, it's Lisa Barlow from Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. Lisa Barlow. Very funny. They should make Salt Lake City into a musical. It would actually be really, really good. We've had talked to some actresses

who are fans of these Housewives and they've been rich in character study. They'll watch some of these shows and try to pull from, when they're developing various characters that they're playing, they'll study some of these women, we've been told. Interesting.

They're rich with content. Yeah. All right, next we have, stop acting like you're the number one fucking guy in this group. I'm the number one guy in this group. Jesus. Wow. There's not a lot of...

Oh, you don't know who this is? He wouldn't know, but you should know. Well, that should tell you the answer. Yeah, that could help, but it doesn't. I don't know this one. All right. Jack Taylor? It's Jack Taylor from Phantom of the Brals.

There's a lot of reality in this. Jack Taylor maybe could be an 80s movie villain. He does say a lot of things that you might see in a BIF from back to the future. I have to do a PSA for mental health. Please. I have to go and do that. So I have to go with the other side of town and do it.

A friend of mine, it's very interesting. He's been asking me for years to do it. And it's amazing. If children don't get enough attention from the age, from birth all the way to four, if they spend a lot of time watching TV or looking out the window or just not getting the support and love

in those forms of years, 68% of those children end up dropping out of high school. Yeah. You know, we have a one-year-old little girl. Do you really? We do. 68% of those children end up dropping out of high school. Really? Yeah. You know, we have a one-year-old little girl. Do you really? We do. Mazel tov, that's great.

That's great advice, yeah. She just turned one. One, yeah, you gotta, you know, I mean, yeah, I kind of knew that because we had tried for five years to have a baby and my ex-wife, we're still very good friends and we tried everything, you know, gifts and frozen embryo transplants and in vitro. And finally we had, we had twins and after five years of attempting and it was incredible.

The kids are great and boy and a girl. And I think that's when my career slowed down in 1990. I also think that's when I decided not to be Steve McQueen anymore and try, you know, for 20 years of my career, I was doing Steve McQueen, you know? And then all of a sudden the kids happened and I felt like, well, I'm OK now. You know, I've got the kids and I just sat there and watched in the crib, watched them sleep. I didn't even think about.

Oh, yeah. I think it was eight months and I got a movie in London. So I took the kids. I could not be without them. I took them with a nanny in 1990 and 1991. Did a movie called The Shadow Chaser and went to Pinewood Studios and took a flat in Q and I wouldn't leave them. I would just go back and watch these twinkies. Got them these little things they call bagels

and they can hold and walk with them and learn to walk. And I just spent more time with the kids than I ever have in my career anymore. And then of course I realized I needed money and I needed to go back to work. Yeah, I know being a parent has been the most fulfilling, you know, aspect of my life or just, yeah, it just makes everything else so consequential. It takes the focus, especially when we're sensitive as artists, you know, going to a job

nine to five is a different deal. But when you're an artist, usually a little more sensitive. And you know, you haven't so much history that you use as an artist for whatever work you're doing, whether it be painting or poetry or acting, doesn't matter. I'm using so we're so familiar with what it takes to grow up that we want to cultivate our children's lives so much more, I think than the average person. But then he gives I must go and get to your mental health. I've got to go and do that. This guy's a good friend of mine. He produced Oxford Blues, this movie and and a lot of films.

And and I told him I promised him today. So I'd go. We'll get out of here. Yeah, I'm going to read from a teleprompter. It's a lot of stuff, so I don't have to learn anything, but I wanted to come by and say hello. Well, Martin, it's been an absolute pleasure having you and thank you for the storytelling and congratulations on an incredible career

and obviously the success of Cobra Kai, which if you are listening, is it out now? Yeah, season six premiered on Thursday and it's on Netflix and it's, you know, one of the biggest shows. Yeah, no, it's absolutely huge. It's a great watch and as you know, like Martin said, a great family show.

Well, it's a family show, but also it's for the kids. It's for the adults. Everyone can enjoy it. It's an absolute fantastic one. Be sure to check it out. Thank you again, Martin. My pleasure. Thank you to our guests, Alex, Vanita, and Martin. We will see you tomorrow for Electric Going Deeper with the one and only Bella Thorne. You definitely do not want to miss that. It is dramatic, emotional, and you will not want to miss it. And then on

Thursday, we will be back covering all your favorite shows. We'll get into a little bit more Summer House because I know we only talked about it briefly this episode. There's just so much. Plus we'll get into some more Love is Blind and so much more. We'll see you then. Bye.