The Viall Files - E896 Going Deeper with Dylan Efron

Episode Date: March 7, 2025

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper with Dylan Efron Traitors just ended and the most faithful of them all, Dylan Efron, has joined. How was the Traitors Reunion? Is he still friends with anyone? Does he like being in the limelight? And, how was it growing up as Zac Efron’s brother? “You can see in the edit, like I was all over.” Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   Thank You to Our Sponsors: Humble Brands - Try Humble Brands risk-free with their 60-day love-it guarantee. Make sure to use code VIALLFILES to get 15% off at https://www.humblebrands.com, and follow them @humblebrands on social for more! Dailylook- It’s time to get your own personal stylist with Dailylook. Head to https://www.Dailylook.com to take your style quiz and use code VIALL for 50% off your order.  Caraway - This deal is exclusive for our listeners, so visit https://www.Carawayhome.com/viall10 or use code VIALL10 at checkout. Caraway. Non-Toxic cookware made modern. OUAI - The OUAI to a healthy scalp starts here. Go to https://www.TheOUAI.com and use code VIALL for 15% off any product Smalls - For 50% off your first order, head to https://www.Smalls.com and use code VIALL.     Timestamps: (00:00) - Intro (01:51) - Congrats (05:53) - Who is Dylan? (13:04) - Down To Earth (16:30) - Getting Comfortable with Yourself (18:32) - Love life (19:11) - Tattoos (20:45) - The outdoors (21:52) - Showering (25:27) - Extreme Sports (27:37) - Reality TV (32:56) - Traitors (48:27) - Special Forces (53:00) - What’s Next? (57:33) - More Traitors (01:10:37) - Back To You (01:22:52) - Outro   Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @dylanefron  @ciaracrobinson @justinkaphillips  @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell  

Looking for a better for you deodorant that actually works? Meet Humble Brands, made with simple ingredients designed for your long lasting freshness and available in a variety of incredible scents. I started using Humble Brands about a month and a half, two months ago. I'm absolutely obsessed. Mostly because of their scents? Well, not mostly because. I mean, I love their scents, but also mostly because it works. If I'm someone, if you haven't known, I'm allergic to deodorants like many of you, the aluminum or all the crap that goes into your typical deodorants. It's crazy what's in those deodorant sticks. And since your skin is your largest organ, everything you put on your skin is seeped into your

body and you want to make sure what you're putting on your skin is good for you. Well, when it comes to Hummel-Brams, all their products have no aluminum, no alcohol, no parabens. just reliable odor protection that lasts. Their best-selling deodorant is crafted with just four polyphore ingredients and naturally derived scents. My favorite scent so far is their Mountain Lavender. Really enjoy it, love it, lasts. I'm a big guy and I don't stink.

Let me smell this off right now. Nope, I still smell good. Wow, smells great. I'm wearing it right now. And why Humble Brands over all of the other products on the market? Well, they're aluminum free and made without artificial fragrances. They're cruelty free as certified by Leaping Bunny and gives back through 1% for the planet. Make the switch today to feel good all day. Try Humble Brands. Risk free with their 60

day love it guarantee. Make sure to use code V-I-L-L-F-I- L F I L E S that's VioFiles to get 15% off at humblebrands.com and follow them at humblebrands on social for more. Dylan, welcome to V Volfiles, man. It's an honor to be here. Oh, we're so excited to have you. Congratulations on being one of the winners of Traders. Yeah, it was a weird ending, but I honestly like that was the best way to end it with people. We were all on the same team at the end of the day. I feel like we're actually recording this before the actual finale airs.

So we're not aware of what public audience reactions will be. I think it'll be mostly universally loved. There'll always be the people who kind of roll their eyes because they want the drama. They want someone to really screw someone over at the end. Totally. Bob Harper said that, he's like, Dylan, you made a massive mistake. He's like, this is a drama show.

You needed to cut throats at the end. Do you think that, well, I guess whether it's you or anyone else of your cast, had any one of those people decided to be traitorous, they would have been the individual winner? So no, if a faithful wins, it has to be two faithfuls at the end. And we definitely all had a strategy just in case, because at the end you throw stones. So if one of us throws a red stone, we have to vote someone off.

So we were doing all the math and being like, all right, like who are we going to vote first? And like, so we were very prepared in case someone threw a red stone, but sure enough, we all threw green first try. What was the plan in case? What was the plan? I don't remember exactly, but I think the plan was to end with me and Gabby. And who knows if Gabby had the same plan I did, but that was my plan at least. Why? Because by that time Gabby was, so Brittany had the seer ability. She proved that Gabby was a faithful. I also had come to the same conclusion.

So she was in the end, the person I trusted most. Dolores had some red flags. Again, like I trusted Dolores and Ivor, but they both had a few red flags where it's like, if you're trying to remove any chance that you're going to lose this game, the smart thing is to get rid of them both. Like Dolores voting history was pretty all over the place. She had Danielle's, she had Danielle's back. Like there was, there's enough reason to vote Dolores out and same with Ivory. So I'm happy we ended it. Like I didn't want to go there, but if we were forced to, we would have. And who knows, Gabby might have chopped me off first. Did you ever ask her?

I haven't, no. It would have been interesting if Gabby would have been as loyal to you as you would have been to her. Honestly, I'm shocked she was as loyal as she was because you can see in the edit, I was all over her. I was a thorn in her side from the beginning thinking she was a traitor. Do you think part of it had to do with all the finalists

not being gamers? And I feel like last season it was- Oh, I can tell you, yeah, a gamer would not have ended it with the four of us. It just makes no sense. You get more money, it makes no sense. Yeah, with TC? Yeah, CT.

CT. But people were pissed about MJ getting the boot. So it's- Well, yeah, you're always gonna piss off somebody. And like, you definitely are gonna get some comments about like you kind of being dirty. Yeah. I think at the end, it really did feel like

we were a team at the end and we were just trying to get the traders out. So once we did that- Not to diminish, you know, the amount of money that you could have won had you taken it all by yourself, but I guess in your place, you're thinking, I don't know, 100 grand, or everyone thinking I'm kind of slimy and kind of shady.

It's like- Let's do that math. Let's say that I got Dolores out next, and then we ended with three of us. So we would have split 50K three ways. I would have got like, I don't know the math. The pot was 50K? 50K each.

So if we got rid of Dolores, we would have added 50K more to the three of our winnings. 18K maybe? So like, I would just ruin my lifelong relationship with Dolores for 18K. After taxes, it's like $9,000. There's no way it's worth it. A lifelong friendship with Dolores.

Yeah, I love Dolores. I don't want that to be the end. And she told me, she's like, Dolores, you murdered me. Oh. All right, well, let's put a pause on Trader's Talk. I want to come back to that. But I also, like, I'm just really excited to have you on because similar to when we had the opportunity to interview Sam.

Sam. I listen. I listen to fuckers. You know, it's just like, like I told him, because similar to when we had the opportunity to interview. Sam. Sam. I listen, I listen the fuck. You know, it's just like, like I told him, like everyone knows who you are, but no one really knows who you are. Like obviously everyone knows who your brother is,

and you know, he's a big deal and he's super famous. And before you went on the show, like I was aware of who you were, you know, like the other once in a while, it's just like, Zach Efron's brother. Oh, he's tall, you know, like, you know, and so there's this like this kind of, there's been this fascination with you, like that stem from obviously your brother's notoriety and things like that.

And then, but we don't, you know, it's like, it was all this, from that point, just a lot of speculation, you know, kind of like similar to Sam. It's like you, you knew the person existed, but you didn't really, you never really heard from them, got to know their personality. If you didn't watch Yor and Zach's documentary, it was this again, just a lot of like, you were just more Zach Efron's brother. But now I feel like there's, like you are, you're Dylan,

you know, and you've become like the star of the show and there's a lot of like interest and I'm excited to get to know you better and find out who Dylan Efron really is. Thank you. Yeah, that's everything was really nice. I think that's like I one going back to like being known as Zac Efron's brother, like I've always said that's a badge I wear with honor.

Like I was I was raised that way. Like Zac got famous at a young age. How old were you? So Zac was probably 17 when he was famous, like worldwide famous. So that means I would have been 12. And before that, he's my four year old bigger brother who's in high school and I'm in middle school.

He's already cool. Like I thought he was the coolest person my whole life. So then like, of course America's gonna fall in love with him. Like, so like I've got So I've been blessed for all of his success and the fact that he endorses me as my brother and has always included me on stuff. Growing up, I got to see some of the coolest things.

I got exposed to Hollywood in the best way. I saw the pitfalls, I saw the cool red carpets. I saw it all and was able to watch it from a distance and I realized at a young age, like, I don't want fame. I don't want to make the most money and live in the nicest house in Hollywood. Like that's not my goal. So I had that perspective at a young age through my brother.

And then you, you became a production coordinator. Yeah. Was it ready player one, the accountant? That's kind of cool. It was, I worked on some cool movies. How did you end up starting doing that? Or like, for people who don't know, that's like real, that's grunt work.

Yeah, I was a PA, I did it all. You're getting coffees, you're working shitty hours, you're being, you're just, you're doing tax for other people, like, that's like a summer college job and real fucking character building work. What made you... And shitty pay usually. And I think that... You know when people always say you've never worked a service job, if you're ever a busboy or anything like that, you can tell the people who have because how they treat people that work those jobs. And it's like, like I was a busboy in high school.

Like I've been a PA on a film set. Like I know how these productions get like, I don't know. I I've been there. So I think it's a fun perspective for me to see how films are made from every scale in a way. So, yeah, I guess taking a step back, I was I graduated college. I was going to move to Sacramento and work. What did you do in school? Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo.

What was your major? Business. Okay. And then minored in economics. I had some fun there. Like I did bull riding as a class. How much did you take advantage, if at all, of being, you know,

Max younger brother? Not much. Not much. Like I had a girlfriend. Okay. Yeah, I look at, I can't believe I'm gonna say this, but like my whole life I do feel like people have treated me really nicely. And maybe that's because of Zach, maybe like.

You have nice eyes too. You have a smile. Like it goes back to even elementary school. Like I used to think that maybe I was a little special because of people like special in a way that I would have to go to special reading classes and stuff. Like I did have to go to special reading classes, but I was like, maybe that's why people are nice to me

is cause I'm like off. No, whatever, you should. Yeah. Are you dyslexic by chance? I think I have a lot of that stuff. I think I have ADD, a little dyslexic. Yeah, I have all those things, yeah. I was really good at math,

so they would actually take me up for GATE, which was like gifted kids for math, and then they'd give me the boot and put me in special reading classes. That was me? I was really good at math, and they're like, this kid doesn't know where commas go. Yeah.

He can't spell either. It was the complete opposite. Sorry. You graduated from college. Yeah, I graduated from college and then I got a job at Warner Brothers. I interned for this producer named Ravi Mehta and he just took me under his wing. So I started as like a trainee, the PA, I became like his assistant, then I became a production coordinator, and my last movie was A Star is Born. So like some of these movies like Chips with Dex Shepard

and A Star is Born, like I was there on set in Video Village like getting to see these movies filmed and like a part of this crew. So it was such a cool perspective for me. Did you get a chance to interact with Bradley Cooper or any of the accountants with the... Yeah, mostly, I would say Chips was one of the highlights for me, because Dax Shepard just became a friend

and he was so cool to see. He really filmed that movie to just have fun with his friends and it felt like that with the crew. He was just laughing, smiling every day on set. So I really enjoyed that movie. And A Star is Born was just like, Bradley Cooper is just a professional. So like we knew that was gonna win some awards

and it was cool to be a part of. But I think my issue and why I left was, one, I was 26 and everybody else at Warner Brothers with my same job was in their mid-40s, late 40s. So I could just see this like future of myself sitting in this desk, not enjoying life. So like, where do I go from here? Exactly. So that was probably the biggest reason I left. And then I was kind of just like frustrated with the Hollywood movies that cost 20 million to make and had all this waste. Like I was like, dude, we could film this with our friends for like

with crew of 10 people and make something awesome. So I left and started doing YouTube. Oh, wow. Yeah. I know I've, uh, you know, being on set, you definitely learn a lot and things like that. I remember I was on set for something and they brought out like this magazine as a prop and then there, and someone was like, some maybe in

production was like, you know, how much this costs, you know, and it was like hundreds of maybe in production was like, you know how much this cost, you know, and it was like hundreds of dollars and it was like, it was like, it was garbage. It was an old magazine, but because like of all the rules and sag and yada yada, like it had to be like a certain prop and then that, you know, it gets inflated and yeah, it's just a lot of hidden costs in the production of all these things.

There is a lot of waste, a lot of sitting around. It's not as glamorous as people think. So how did down to Earth come about? I remember when Nick saw your tagline on Traders, he was like, oh, that's so nice. I know, I remember. He was like, oh, this guy's Down to Earth. I've seen Down to Earth.

I'm like, wow. She's like, no, that was the show. That came at the time, again, this is a while ago, but I was running Zach's YouTube channel. We were coming up with different show ideas. And the original down to earth idea was me and Zach traveling together. And I think we both came to the conclusion.

I wasn't ready for that role really at that time. Like I wasn't ready to be his cohost on down to earth. So I ended up actually introducing him to Darren Ollien and that just like took off. It was like, oh, they hit it off. This is the right move. I'll be a producer. And we just started filming down earth and it was like the first of its kind really. It was like, it was a new genre. And again, that was fun for me. It was like a small crew of 12 people. We traveled all over the world.

What made you feel like you weren't ready to be his co-host? I think the same reason that I haven't done any reality shows till now is like, I'm not my brother. He was on stage performing it at 12. Like I was playing sports and being an idiot. Like I didn't become comfortable with myself till my 30s. And like I never wanted to be in the public eye. So I think just like the more I did social media

and realized like I am putting myself out there and this is who I am and I've got nothing to be afraid of, I started to gain more confidence. Is there any, and you know, maybe there's, you know, a lot of people live with no regrets or whatever, but is there any like envy from either of y'all sides for like the life you live? Maybe it's like the childhood you have,

like did he ever wish he could just like go and play football with his friends and not be on stage from either of y'all sides for the life you live. Maybe it's the childhood you have. Did he ever wish he could just go and play football with his friends and not be on stage and not be performing and vice versa? I'm sure. I think it would go both ways. Like at the end of the day, Zach and I are still brothers. We still fight about a lot of stuff.

We like, and I think that we have little small jealousies of each other. You both competitive? Yeah, super competitive. At what point did you realize that you were gonna be taller than him? Pretty early. Like, I-

Was he pissed? Yeah, he was like, he was small for his age and I was really tall for my age. And then there was, so there was a time when I'm like, maybe 10 and Zach's 14, we were the same height. And then he hit puberty and like got buff and stuff. And I was left in the dust. Pretty soon I caught up.

So it's like different, obviously with girls, but I have a vivid memory of my sister and her friends being like, don't worry, like she'll never have his biggest boobs as you. Like one day it was like, ah, here I am, bitch. Back to down to earth. So that it started on YouTube and then where did I watch it on? Here I am, bitch. Back to Down to Earth. It started on YouTube and then where did I watch it on? No, so that was a Netflix one.

When we originally pitched the project, it was from kind of our YouTube ideation of like, how about we do a travel show? Let's tie in sustainability. Let's actually try to have fun traveling, but also see if we can make a minor improvement in the world and yeah we didn't think it was gonna be anything big and then it became Netflix number one like we were all shocked like I was on a road trip when it came out and I see it's number one and trending I was like holy shit like you never really know no we have so much there you know it's just like it was so be number one on Netflix's yeah, I think like that type of story telling stuff.

Like we want to do something similar this upcoming year. We have a project in mind. So I'm always fascinated with people around your age who, who acknowledge or just kind of say things like you just said earlier about like not really being comfortable with yourself until like 30 or late twenties. I very much relate to that. I remember being like 28 and going through like a pivotal

experience, a breakup of a relationship and looking back when I was like in my early 30s and kind of realizing like, wow, I didn't really know it. I like that was like, like I felt like I was an adult when I became 28, not like, you know, because of like shit I went through. Is there any like what moments in your life, in adult life were pivotal for you

where you feel like you maybe learned some tough lessons or that were transformative that really, maybe you had to go through it, shook you up. You know, for me, it was like a relationship, couple of relationships with a couple of different girls that were like emotionally just kind of fucked me up. And I had to, you know, learn about like what role I played or, you know, and yeah, at first, it's just like you're a victim of,

when you're down bad, it's always like, how could this happen to me? And I think part of being adult was the willingness to reflect about like, yeah, I can still be hurt, but I can simultaneously be upset and hurt and feel wronged and still be willing to like look in the mirror and figure out what I can learn from this. Like, do you have any moments like that that you felt were kind of pivotal to finding moments

in adult life? It's tough. Like, my life hasn't been all at K-Quark. There's definitely been some really challenging things that have happened in our family and stuff. So like, I think all of that has prepped me in a good way. And I think I've always had a good head on my shoulder. My insecurity was more of like, just being comfortable

as who I am and putting it out there online, if anything. So like, maybe just that deep seated fear of seeing the fame that my brother had and not wanting to step there and stuff like that. So I can't say there's anything in particular, but I feel like, yeah, I've always been, had a pretty level head in that way. What's your love life like these days? I'm in a relationship.

You are in a relationship. Okay. That's a real bummer for all your fans. No, it's cool because she's actually not on social media and she works a 40 hour week job. How did you guys meet? Originally in high school. We're from the same hometown. It works out really well. It's not like I'm hiding her from the world or anything.

She understands the job, all that stuff. She doesn't really like being on camera. She loves your guys' podcast. I wouldn't know about it. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, wow. She's the one that introduced me.

Love that. When did you, where are your tattoos from? Just different times I've traveled. Okay. Just spur of the moment, like this was supposed to be a free tattoo in Malta. I was going to get on my leg and then it turned into this and then this was in Costa Rica.

This was the first tattoo I ever got. But I just, I wanted something like feminine in a way, cause I thought tattoos are so masculine looking. I was like, I'll get flowers. A lot of my tattoos, I realized it's like, I don't have a cross, a skull bone, and I have butterflies and let's see, a puppy dog. Yeah, I see a butterfly, it's good.

It balances it up. I wasn't thinking feminine and I just more got him. I'm like, I see a butterfly, it's good. It bounces it up. I wasn't thinking feminine, and I just more got him. I'm like, oh shit, this is who I am. That does make sense. When did you start getting tattoos? Probably like 26, 27. I always wanted them growing up. I always thought they were cool.

You know what the best part about getting a tattoo is? If you've ever wanted a tattoo, it's so easy to get talked out of them. Your parents will say, don't do it. You can't get work, you can't get jobs. There's so many reasons to never do it. But once you actually go through, you sit in that chair for a couple hours,

you book the reservation, it's like so gratifying to be like, wow, I did it. Like something I wanted to do, I just did. Yeah, I mean, I've enjoyed the kind of like you, like reminders or, you know, reminders of family members, they meet their meaningful things. But yeah, like, I mean, I didn't get them until I was 40. I was mostly just, mostly like just,

I was working in corporate America. And then I, you know, and then I was like, I felt like I was too old to get them or something. And then I met Natalie and she kind of gave me permission to lean in. So you're not too old. Yeah, definitely not. Let's do it.

Our mutual friend Shug said that you, and I'm gonna say like what it is wrong, but you like tie a rope to two mountains and you like free walk or something across it. Yeah, high lining. High lining, that's crazy. How did you, it's like, isn't it? You tie a rope to two mountains.

It's called high lining, it's like slacklining between two mountains. So like you're way up in the sky and you're pretty much tight rope walking. And is there safety measures? There are. Same with rock climbing. Like most of the time these activities are safe.

They look really scary and they are dangerous in a way, but if you're doing them right, they shouldn't be dangerous. Gotcha, yeah. Driving's dangerous. Yes, exactly. Right. But it's like, it's based on balance, right? I mean, you have to be-

Based on balance, a lot of, it's exhausting being out there. Like you have to pull yourself up. You have to, it was one of the harder sports I've ever learned. That's for sure. What made you want to learn that? I'm big into rock climbing and like, I remember being a kid on a hike, seeing people rock climbing. I was like, damn, I want to do that someday.

And again, all of a sudden I'm of age and I'm like, what's holding me back from that? Fast forward, I'm out there rock climbing and I see highlanders and I'm like, damn, I want to do that someday. Have you ever met Dean Uglert? No. Do you know who Dean Uglert is? No, that's a great name. He was on the Bachelorette, one of the more famous contestants, very attractive man, like yourself, a big rock climber, big, big traveler. Big also doesn't, also doesn't, uh, advocate for daily showers.

Here we go. Do I stink right now? For anyone listening, he smells, well, you don't, I didn't. I swam today. So I got the chlorine just killed everything. Chlorine. Well, you don't, I didn't. I swam today, so I got the chlorine just killed everything.

Chlorine, thank God for the chlorine. Yeah, chlorine. What is up with you against daily showers? No, all right, I need to clear the air. Some parts were cut out of that interview. A shower a day is okay. I was saying that people shower too much. And like, I don't think every time we shower,

we need to scrub our old bodies and clean our shins with soap. Like, sure. Yeah. Like you, you clean all six cracks and then you're, you're good. I can shower in 60 seconds if I need. Yeah, totally. Six.

Six cracks? What are the six? You don't know six? What are the six? You're the dirty one over here. Whoa. One, two. Or are we go, are we sides? I just wind the six. You're the dirty one over here. Whoa. One, two, or are we go, are we sides? I just went up six.

One, two, three, four. Where are these six going? I count five. Okay. The armpits, there's like three. Okay, so you- You might have six. So you do- This is getting weird.

So you do shower a lot. I do shower. Yeah, I, but- You just don't love soap that much. That might be. I'm not soaping myself crazy every day. Like I'll clean it. I'm not dirty.

I'm okay with being dirty. Like I love camping. I love a lot of stuff. When I'm home, I'm clean. But like, so like I love going in the ocean. I'll like rinse off after going to the ocean. But I don't think I need a whole nother soap vest after that. You don't feel like you need to like wash all the salt off.

You're kind of like, oh. Well, that happens if I just rinse off, right? For sure. But I don't. Yes. I'm losing the spot line. Yes, yes, yes. I'm gonna say it.

So like I showered this morning, went to the pool, and then like showered off in the little. You showered and then went to the pool? Yes, yeah. I'm showering a lot these days. Oh my God. Yeah, I feel like if you're getting out of the pool, it's not a necessary shower. I didn't know it was this quick decision. I was like, it's, yeah, I'm showering a lot these days. Oh my God, it's too much water. Yeah, I feel like if you're gonna go to the pool, it's not a necessary shower.

I didn't know it was a split decision. I was like, it's sunny out, I'm gonna go swim. But yeah, so I woke up and showered, believe it or not. Like your pool? No, like the one in my gym. Okay. Yes, but then after I did that, oh, Bury's just right in front of the camera scratching.

It's okay, we'll cut to the close-up. Okay, yeah, so then like, yeah, after the, right in front of the camera scratching. Um, okay. We'll cut to the close. Yeah. So then like, yeah, after the booey get over here, after the pool, I just like use the public shower right there. Rinse the chlorine off and away. I still smell like chlorine. I'm sure. Did you grow up outside and doing a bunch of swimming and hiking

and all that kind of stuff? Definitely. Did you grow up in LA? No, I grew up in San Luis Obispo. So it's that's what you do there. Is that in California? It's in California. Like Pismo Beach.

Have you been to Santa Barbara? It's very similar to that. It sounds like you're just saying like, you're like mumbling words together. San Luis Obispo. Oh yeah, there. Okay. So you grew up there and you grew up doing all of this stuff. So this isn't a new thing that you just picked up?

No, no. It's definitely like... Been always outdoorsy. And it's, well, yeah, we didn't have many options. It was a small town we grew up in. I'd sit on the weekends, people would show up to the movie theaters. It'd be like fights, hang out with girls. It was like, there wasn't anything to do. So my friends and I would like road trip.

We'd go rock climb. We'd go out and just get out of our little town. What extreme sport do you wanna try next? I really wanna get my skydive license. Just I've been skydiving a ton, but I always have a guy on my back. And I think it takes a lot. They're always creepy.

It's always weird. They're always trying to fuck your girlfriend. You know, it's just like. I just don't, and then it's like, I don't know. You see like the people that do it solo, they've got like helmets and they're doing cool stuff. Like I'm honestly just like. Should we take classes together?

Oh, I'm super down. I've only sky dove once. It was an amazing time. Nell and I were gonna sky dive together for my friend Peter's 40th birthday party, but weather did not cooperate. So we ended up not going. I'm pretty sure Dean is like, he does it by himself.

Dean also has learned to go by himself. I get Dean's number, you better DM me after this. You guys have a lot in common, I'm sure. But yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll. Let's do it. Honestly, it's one of those things that again, it's like skydiving is safe. Like they have so many backup ways.

I don't know, But yeah. Yeah. The one time we went skydiving, we obviously had like a million questions and you know, like what's it feel like if you never skydived before, like you feel like it's like a roller coaster and it doesn't feel like that because you're already flying,

I don't know how many miles per hour when you jump off the plane. So it doesn't feel like you're falling at all. It just feels like you're flying, which is cool. But then you like, yeah, I remember asking them and they were just saying like, you know, like safer than driving. And like the only time you really have skydiving accidents

is when you have like the extreme sport guys like doing tricks and testing certain limits. But if you kind of play by the rules and pull the chute when you're supposed to pull it, like it's a relatively safe activity. And then I think that's what draws me to a lot of these sports is like, there's rational fear and irrational fear.

And so much of it is irrational fear. It's like you see someone skydiving, you're like, oh my God, he's falling out of an airplane. And you have all those worries, like what if I hit the ground? What if I do all these? That's all irrational. Like once you actually know the equipment,

know you have a backup shoot, know what to do. The margin of error is super small. So I like conquering that. Knowing the difference between danger and fear. Exactly, so I love conquering that fear. Getting to know you from watching this show, I got the impression that you are, like many people who listen to this show,

a huge reality TV fan. Yeah. Is that accurate? I am, yeah, I think the impression that you are, like many people who listen to this show, a huge reality TV fan. Yeah. Is that accurate? I am. Yeah. What shows, like, first of all, how did you get into reality TV as a fan and what have been some of your favorite shows?

Survivor was the day one. Like I watched all the old school survivors and quite a few of the new seasons as well. So when I showed up to the castle and it was a bunch of like the all time best survivor players. I was like, holy shit. Like if I played survivor now, it would be with a bunch of strangers. But here I am in a castle playing with like my childhood heroes, like that was pretty cool.

And I'd seen all of their seasons. So yeah, survivor was definitely my first dabble into it. And then yeah, my girlfriend just watches a lot of them too. So like, I'll just be sitting down, all of a sudden I've watched a whole episode of Southern Charm and it's like, there's some funny shit that goes down in this stuff. So she got you to watch reality TV.

Does she participate in your extreme sports? Yeah, I just posted something of us rock climbing Joshua Tree. She's a trooper. What a badass. That she can keep up. Are you team Craig or team Paige? This is Southern charm.

Partly. Partly. Oh, oh, yeah. Paige is on summer house. Yeah, yeah, I'm team Paige. Paige. Are you not? I mean, I know Paige, but I know Craig.

So, I mean, I'm rooting for them both. They broke up, but like I'm- That's funny, you just took the Switzerland approach. Yeah. He put you on the spot and then like, well, I love them both. I was like, barely watched these shows. With the narrative that's online,

I don't agree with Paige. I agree with Craig. See, I don't even know the narrative. So I shouldn't, I'm not the right answer. I just know, I think Paige is friends with Sierra. Paige is definitely the safer answer think Paige is friends with Sierra. Paige is friends with Sierra, right? She is.

Yes, oh yeah, there you go. There you go, that makes sense. Cause I was, I had West's back a little bit in their drama, so I think she's a little bit. You gotta be in Switzerland again. I was not. You weren't? Makes sense, no, I definitely was not.

I am always looking to add new pieces to my wardrobe, but finding the time to go shopping these days is getting harder and harder. I've always been hesitant to do a clothing subscription service because an algorithm can't truly know my style, but I love the idea of a personal stylist who can fully understand what I'm looking for. And that's why I love our next sponsor, Daily Look.

Daily Look is the number one highest rated premium personal styling service for women. With Daily Look, you get your own dedicated personal stylist to curate a box of clothes based on your body shape, preferences, and lifestyle. It's not an algorithm, it's a real personal stylist. And you get the same stylist every single time. So you build that rapport, they learn what you love,

what you don't like. They really find great pieces just for you. That means you can try up to 12 premium pieces per box in a comfort of your own home, saving you time and effort. There's nothing worse than being in a dressing room and having to share a mirror with everyone else and getting opinions from everyone else about what you're choosing to try on.

But not with Daily Look, you get to do it in the comfort of your own home. And every time a Daily Look box shows up at our doorstop, Nellie acts like it's Christmas morning and it's amazing. That's, I mean, that's why they work with established brands and up and coming designers. Your box can feature names like Kate Spade, AG, Good American, Girlfriend Collective,

Spiritual Gangster and more. Daily Look has sizes for almost everybody from extra small to 3X and zero to 24. It's time to get your own personal stylist with Daily Look. Head to dailylook.com to take your style quiz and use code V-I-A-L-L for 50% off your order. That's five zero. Once again, that's DailyLook.com backslash V-I-A-L-L

for 50% off and make sure you use our promo code V-I-A-L-L so they know we sent you. One last time, DailyLook.com promo code V-I-A-L-L. Did you know that a single scratch of Teflon cookware can release over 9,000 micro plastic particles? Jesus, that's scary. It blew my mind to find out that the amount of plastic in brain samples has increased 50% since 2016. Knowing all of that, I made that switch to Caroway.

I just got a new Caroway set. I cook with Caroway wherever I am. I love it. I'm obsessed with it. We'll be cooking with Caroway for a long time. Obviously because they're safe, you know know first and foremost. It's crazy that there's not safe options out there but the sad part is there is. So make sure that you are cooking with safe options from Caraway. No longer do you have to worry about some of those harmful chemicals seeping into yours and your

family's bodies. With Caraway they make that non-toxic cookware made modern. It's non-toxic cookware and it's also incredibly easy to clean. It looks nice. You can cook anything. I cook everything on my caraway. It is absolutely fantastic. It's truly cookware that I feel safe and love cooking. And I'm someone who cooks almost every,

you know, five, six times a week. Caraway Kitchenware is crafted with sustainable non-toxic materials like FSC certified birch wood, premium stainless steel, naturally slick ceramic, and more to help you create a safer, healthier home. I absolutely am obsessed with my Carraway and you will be as well. We did the math and there is no better time

to make the healthy swap to Carraway. Our favorite cookware set will save you $150 versus buying the individual items. Plus, if you visit carawayhome.com slash viall10, you can take an additional 10% off your next purchase. This deal is exclusive for all listeners. So visit carewayhome.com slash V I A L L one zero and use code V I A L L one zero.

Check out CareWay non-toxic cookware made modern. What made you want to go on Traders? So I'd watched Traders. I watched US season two. And my fear was that there wasn't that much strategy. Like I love strategy. I love, yeah, I don't know. I love trying to think outside the box.

Where you proved wrong. Well, so then I started watching more because I had heard that I might have a chance to be on the show. So I'm like, oh, right. Let's do some research. So I watched like all the UK seasons. I watched the Australia season. I definitely watched more than anyone on that show.

So I've seen the game play out in a bunch of different ways. Do you think that kind of getting back to Traders, do you think that helped you? Do you think that benefited you or was it ended up being just a lot of TV that you watched? It definitely benefited me. Probably not as much as I thought it would. Because the different seasons are different. Like Australia is in a completely different castle. The UK version, you know what, there's one funny story.

So Boston Rob's strategy was to, as a trader, to get rid of anyone who said his name. And he came up with that strategy on his own. He's like, no, no one, everyone's afraid. Like if, if me as a faithful says Boston Rob's a trader, everyone's like, no, no one, everyone's afraid. Like if, if me as a faithful says Boston Robbs a traitor, everyone's like, oh, well that's safety for Dylan because he's onto a traitor, if Boston Robbs a traitor. Does that make sense?

So. Like if you say the name of the traitor, you think you'd be safe because why would they come after that person would be so obvious. Like what I did with Bob the Drag Queen, I was saying his name very early. I made it very public, hoping it would give me safety that night. So he did the reverse. He started to go after those people and then anticipated using the

assumed narrative as his protection. Exactly. He did the reverse, reverse or whatever. So it's a brilliant strategy, but then like, so But he almost like had to execute on that strategy too much, it seemed like. Yes. And the flip side is like, I watched a season in Australia that the guy did the exact same strategy and he lost. So like there is someone who's thought of the same strategy and it didn't work out for them. So I don't think Boston Raw watched that season. It seems like a great strategy to definitely make your mark on the season and be a focal

point, but it has its limits, it feels like. Yeah. And not win. It's a strategy that will make waves, but not win almost. Yeah. And look, the people, the Boston Robs that are playing this game, it is very, very tough for them to win. Like there was probably a 1% chance he was going to win this game just because

there is so much lore about these gamers that they're targets. And do you feel like that benefited you kind of being this like no one really knows who you are. And they kind of find out like who you are. And it's kind of like, oh, for sure. I live at the same as Sam. Yeah. I actually wanted to bring this up.

So I left the castle and then the cast has been announced. So I listened to your guys' podcast. Trust me, the bar was very low for me. Like, no, you guys were one of the few, like I'm telling you, it's a hot take. Natalie said that she thinks I'm gonna win. I did? You did.

I'm telling you, that is the hottest take I've heard. And you agreed. You didn't say, I don't think you said that. You gotta play the tape, but you said that I could see him going far. Okay. And I'm telling you, that's a hot take because the bar was low.

People were like, why the hell is this guy on the show? Really? That's so funny. I don't remember saying that at all, but I stand by it clearly. People said that about Nick when he went on Special Forces. I remember being like, oh my God, he's not going to last a day. I mean, he ended up winning that show too.

So it is funny how people have this perspective that you're going to suck and then to prove them all wrong. And it's a great place to be in. Like I said, the bar was so low for me on this show. Because you're just the pretty brother. And so as soon as I said the right vote once, everyone's like, this guy's a genius. It's like, no, I'm very much not a genius,

but the bar was that low. I literally just had to not go on and shoot myself in the foot. And people are gonna be like, that guy actually has a brain. So did you go, what was your strategy going into it? My strategy was honestly Sam's strategy. If you watch Sam's season,

I think he played the strategy that I wanted to do to a T. He went in, was very quiet, but listening to everybody the whole time. It didn't make for great TV in the beginning, like he was barely in the beginning, but that whole time he's learning the game, he's learning everybody. And then once it was time for him to step up, he stepped up, got a trader, like he was figuring it out. And that was the strategy I wanted, like I hate arguing. So I did not want to go into that round table with all these big personalities and argue. Yeah, yeah. Who hurt you

the most by betraying you? With the Boston Robb or Danielle? Oh no, yeah, I wasn't hurt by Boston Robb. Honestly, the thing is like I never felt betrayed when I figured out they were traitors. Oh, okay. It's very much like crazy amounts of respect that they were able to do that.

Cause that show is really hard. And what people don't see is like, they're playing the role of a traitor 24 seven. The car rides, the, like, any time the cameras aren't on, they still have to be a traitor. Like, it- And pretend to be a faithful. Yes. More importantly.

So it's a crazy role that they signed up for. So as soon as I would figure out someone's a traitor, I'm like, honestly, like respect. And it's fun, it's a fun position to be in once you are pretty sure someone's a trader, I'm like, honestly, like, respect. And it's fun, it's a fun position to be in once you are pretty sure someone's a trader, because then you can see them manipulating you, but you have the upper hand. I feel like a great strategy would be,

and there's a big if, because it requires you to figure out who the traders are. But if you are clever enough or lucky enough and confident enough to figure out who the traders are. But if you are clever enough or lucky enough and confident enough to figure out who the trader is, I feel like the best approach would be like to befriend them and get close to them. Not let anyone know what you think and let them think that you think there's no way they could be a trader and get some kind of protection without it being any type of actual alliance. And that's absolutely the best strategy. And I got very lucky.

Like I think you see in episode one, I tell Danielle, you're my number one. Like that was a strategy to be like, hey, I want to have someone that like, I can trust in this game that we're going to go to the end. I said that day one though, I don't know anything. So like it was just making an alliance. I had no idea she was a trader at that time.

So like that was just making an alliance. I had no idea she was a trader at that time So like that's very lucky but that was executing that trader angel strategy Boston Robb didn't know he was a trader but like He's in my alliance. We're super close. So like there's two Carolyn again day one. We rode in the car together It was me Carolyn and Danielle all in an alliance. So like all of my closest people were traders. Who are you not in an alliance with? Gabby. No, like you have a bunch of alliances. Like I thought I was in a survivor alliance with Tony and Jeremy

and then I'm watching it back and Jeremy's like, I don't trust that kid. So you have a bunch of different alliances, but some of them are more important to you than others. Like my relationship with Carolyn and Danielle, I took very seriously. And like when I told Carolyn that Danielle said her name, like I did not want to do that. Like the whole show,

I am trying to bring Carolyn and Danielle together. I had no idea what was going on upstairs. Like I was like the best. You were like, like you both, why are you fighting? I'm friends with you both. It just, it did not click for me. I You were like, like you both. Yes. I'm friends with you both. It just did not click for me. I'm just like, guys get along. And they're both like, he doesn't know, like shut up.

Yeah. So you really didn't take offense to either Carolyn or Danielle trying to manipulate you because they both did, right? For sure. They both leaned on your friendship. Carolyn leaned on the fact that like people have judged her for the wrong reasons in the past. And as a fan of Survivor, you know her plight and yada yada the whole time.

That's just her trying to manipulate you. Guess like whatever Danielle, you know, we've heard from multiple people and the accusations about her swearing on family members and things like that. And, you know, but like you didn't really, you just, it's all fair in the game of traders. For me, it was a game like, like at the end of this, Danielle just played the villain role to a T. Like she signed up to be a villain. She knew she was going to be a villain and she is hated by America for being a villain.

Like she really hated right now. That's such a shame. If it's like calm down people. She got a lot of flack, way more than she deserved for playing a game in a castle. So that was hard to see outside the show that people were going after her so much. But yeah, I just had respect because she played it 100%.

She was trying to win. Same with Carolyn. And I think that one was harder is like people always wanted me to say, like, why did I choose Danielle over Carolyn? It's like at that point, I knew they were both traitors. So it's like, I don't owe either of them anything.

And I'm going to do what's best for my game, which was to work with Danielle because we had that trust. Do you think Danielle has any hard feelings towards Brittany? We'll see at the reunion. That comes out at the reunion for sure. I think there's still some, they need to get together off camera and just hash some things out I think. I appreciate your position and I would be a little, I mean I guess I don't really care,

but I'd be a little like, not surprised, but like it would seem like a double standard of Danielle's given the fact that she played her game and she played it well to your point and she played it ruthlessly and she played to win. So how can she get mad at anyone else, including Brittany for doing exactly the same? It's just like, at the end of the day, everyone's- Someone crossed her instead of her crossing them.

She crossed a lot of people, Danielle like if if if it's all fair and Loving more or whatever all fair like under the Guys of like we're playing a game then it seems weird that she would expect any type of specific loyalty from Brittany Totally, you know and that's that's kind of my stance on it too. That the reunion, they talked about the reindeer games again, like whatever happened on that in the elf forest or whatever. Like I remember. That was their show that when Brittany like crossed her

again in Petrion. And it's so that they talked about that for a couple of minutes. Like it was heated again. And like, I think Andy's just like, what are they talking about? Like it's not Traders. Oh, we're moving on.

But like, I think that's the thing is like, what are they talking about? It's not Traders, oh, we're moving on. But I think that's the thing is they call themselves gamers. They're proud of their gameplay. I think we just need to keep that gameplay in the game. And then outside, it's like, we can't be offended at what happened. So I actually don't think Danielle's mad at Brittany for crossing her again. I think it's more, they just have some issues

they need to solve. I don't know. I hope they work through it. I'll be in Switzerland on that. Did you enjoy your time with Tom? Yeah, I actually did. So the very first conversation, he gets out of the car. I was like, you look really familiar. And he's like, well, yeah, I'm like, I got talked about in the White House. And like, I'm the most hated man in America. I was like, I got talked about in the white house and like, I was in the most hate. I'm the most hated man in America. I was like, Oh, I was like, I do know who you are from the vile files. And, and like, I didn't realize literally until I get home and tell my girlfriend the

story that she was like, you probably shouldn't have, like, that's not a good, it wasn't his best moment. So it's like saying, Oh, I know you for this. Yeah. So, but it was trying to get back, Tom back on. He does seem like he's in a great spot right now. Like, I mean, he left that trader's house feeling respected. I was happy for, I mean, that's fucked up. We know what he did.

He, he, he not a good moment for him. And like, you know, he's sometimes he can be a little stubborn and like a little like, you know, make it give the impression he's not like grasping what people are frustrated at him for and you know, yada yada yada. But like he has redeeming characteristics, you know, and like it gets frustrating as some like I got to know him on special forces and you got to know him on traders and you're just like, I don't know, he's certainly not a perfect person. He's full of flaws. Yeah, you know, like I can roll my eyes and get fresh with him, but he's not evil.

No, he's definitely not a bad person. I've met way worse people and way like people I would trust a lot less than Tom Sandoval. Totally, he's absolutely sincere. And like you said, like you need that Tom Sandoval friend. Like if this show was 20 of me, it would have been the most boring show in the world. But the Toms of the world, they're so different than me.

Tom is like, when that singing challenge happened, he's so excited, that is genuine enthusiasm that he gets a chance to sing. And it's so easy to make fun of and poke fun of him, but props to someone that like knows this is a passion of theirs. And he doesn't care. He doesn't care.

He's gonna go up there and sing his heart out. And it's like, he's genuinely very, he's funny. He's funny. He makes great television. It was a great way to be introduced to Tom, not knowing anything about him. And like, I can't say our relationship was all roses.

Like there were so many times where we're just butting heads and just like, just telling him to shut up. It was just like, we butt heads a lot, but then the day it's like, I know he's sincere in everything he's saying and we actually became friends. So it's, yeah, it was just a fun perspective, not knowing his past and being able to judge someone

on what I see. And I liked what I saw, he was goofy. Tom's like a really strong, unique drink that like you can appreciate once in a while, but it's definitely not your like, you can't have it every day. Yeah. You know?

Yeah, absolutely. The bug challenge with him was that, you picked him to be your teammate? I didn't know it was going to be bugs. My strategy with that was, one, I knew I had to distance myself from Boston Robb a little bit. I just kind of figured that out. So then I was like, all right, well, who am I going to pair up with? And Tom just immediately stands up and goes, Dylan, be my partner.

And I like, didn't even, I was just like, yeah, sure. I was like, if it's a physical challenge, we're gonna crush it. It's like, I know how to work with him. Like I said, we butt heads, but like I can work with him. So I was like, we're gonna win. And then once we lost, I was like, I am gonna lose this show

because I got married to Tom Sandball. And I was just like, that was- Why did you guys lose? Cause it felt like three teams. It went to a tie. Passed the test. Yeah, like we got all the money we needed to, but then only one of the teams was gonna get a shield

and we didn't get the shield. Yeah, I was, I was pretty impressed in that moment by you. That was great. I probably could have done it, but I would have been a little squirmish. It was so funny because again, like I thought Tom was going to crush it. He was on special forces.

I was like, we got this. And then as soon as it starts, he puts the death grip on my hand. And he looks up here and he's like, yeah, this is, this is nothing. We're all good here. And I was like, oh no, like this is, this is nothing. We're all good here. And I was like, oh no, like this is a phobia. And I immediately switched gears from like, this is all fun to like working with him. And Tom on Special Forward, he was like,

Tom was the guy who's, you know, if it was a real military situation, he would run into the battle without thinking twice. For sure. He actually passed the most challenges. I'm not surprised. I'm not, yeah, I'm not surprised at all. He struggled with the taking the directions and the emotional, the

regulation aspect of it, but the actual like, uh, challenges, he was an absolute animal. I believe it. He did have a funny like meme of him running up a hill or something. I don't know if you saw that. It was a pretty funny run. it was like an anime character. Would you do special forces? Yeah, like that all sounds fun to me. Like that is the stuff. You would do very well.

I would be disappointed in you if you didn't finish. I would, I wouldn't. So what are you gonna do? I would do some research and like try to figure out all the strategy and stuff, but like. No, there's no strategy. Yeah, like tell me to jump off a boat onto a helicopter. Like I would pay to do that.

So like. And that shit's fun. That's the fun part. It's survive. It's truly, it's the strategy is mental survival and not quitting. And getting no food, no sleep, feeling fatigued, feeling emotionally weaker every minute of every day. And literally no food, no sleep, feeling fatigued, feeling emotionally weaker every minute of every day.

And literally being like, if I can get 10 more minutes, just 10 more minutes, and you get 10 more minutes, you're like, all right, well, I'm just 10 more minutes. And like, and you do that for three days. It's kind of like, that's gotta be fun to look back at though. Oh, one of the most rewarding experiences of my life. And for like, I don't even know how many people watched it. It was certainly not as popular as Traders and you know,

like, but just the personal experience, there is very cool. And that's the draw to do that show. And I was very like, I'm very excited. One day if my kids ever give a shit about like, I hope they never ask or watch me on The Bachelor. And that's one thing I can be proud of. Like dad did this, you know,

and they can think I'm cool or something like that. And then like I used to compete in Ironmans and it's like there's nothing fun about that. But that like looking back and being like, wow, I was in good enough shape to run an Ironman in 10 hours. Like it's fun being like just knowing that you were able to push yourself that hard.

Whether you're trying to grow out your hair or heal damaged strands, get to the root of your healthy hair goals with Way's scalp care that will get your strands looking stronger, fuller, and healthier. Their hair and body products are made to be effortless and work for you and your routine. Listen, it's hard to find hair products

that work for your hair and whey works for everybody. I love so many of their products. They have an amazing detox shampoo, which is really good if you've been doing a lot of slick back moments, a lot of hair spray, a lot of just like hair products, you haven't washed your hair in a while. The detox shampoo cleanses product buildup,

hard water deposits, dirt, oil and other impurities. They also have a really great scalp and body scrub that I honestly give to everyone for holidays because it smells absolutely delicious and I can feel my skin getting softer as I use it. The scalp and body scrub gives your scalp and skin a fresh start. It's gentle sugar crystals scrub away,

build up while softening and balancing your skin's moisture level. They exfoliate any dirt, flakes and impurities away by using the scrub before your favorite shampoo. The way to a healthy scalp starts here. Go to T-H-E-O-U-A-I.com and use code V-I-A-L-L for 15% off any product. That's T-H-E-O-U-A-I, the way.com and use code V-I-A-L-L.

So you know that we don't have cats, but many members of our household do. And like many of our listeners, I'm assuming you, there's many cat owners and cat lovers out there as well. And if you have a pretty little kitty at home, then you need to check out Smalls. Smalls cat food is protein packed, recipes made with preservative free ingredients

you'll find in your fridge, and it's delivered right to your door. That's why cats.com named Smalls, their best overall cat food. At this point, you might be wondering why can't you just feed your cat kibbles? Well, believe it or not, your cute kitty descended from ferocious desert cats

who hunted live prey for food and your cat isn't any different. They still need fresh protein packed meals to be their best. Other cat food brands know this, but they choose to put their wallets first. They fill their foods with mystery meat byproducts, artificial flavoring, and preservatives

with names I don't even want to know how to pronounce. And if that sounds gross, imagine having to eat that every day. So treat your cat better with Smalls. After switching to Smalls, 88% of cat owners reported overall health improvements. That's a big number. The team at Smalls is so confident that your cat will love their product that you can try it risk-free. That means that they will refund you if your cat won't eat their food.

So what are you waiting for? Get great cat food delivered directly to your doors by the good people at Smalls. Give your cat the food they deserve. Head to Smalls.com and use promo code V-I-A-L-L at checkout for 50% off your first order plus free shipping. That's the best offer you'll find, but you have to use our code V-I-A-L-L at checkout for 50% off your first order plus free shipping. That's the best offer you'll find, but you have to use our code V-I-A-L-L for 50.

That's half 50% off your first order. One last time. That's promo code V-I-A-L-L for 50% off your first order plus free shipping by going to small.com. So what's next for you? Man, what is next for me? I, I, I'm? I'm just open. I've done a lot of things and I let's see. Like my bread and butter is travel shows.

So I want to keep doing those like on YouTube making documentaries. Like I love that like micro type of show where it's like the cameras there with you and you're in a foreign environment learning something. Like did you watch Dirty Jobs? I've seen it. Like that that's like my favorite thing. Like just being out in the world seeing something you're unfamiliar with and learning and the camera being there learning with you. Like that's my that's my favorite thing. So I want to do more of that but I'd be open to acting. I'd be open to more shows. Like so you would be open to acting now. Yeah, I would. Now that you've gotten a little bit of a taste

and a little bit of notoriety, this experience of being kind of thrusted into the limelight and getting a little bit of attention and fame, it's been okay? Yeah, I don't think anything's changed for me really. But the acting side is more like, again, as a 12 year old, I was like, I will never act. It's not who I am.

And that was just setting a, like limiting myself in a way. Where I do think there are quite a few roles that I could do well in. Like I'm not gonna play Ted Bundy tomorrow, like my brother. Like he has put in hours, countless hours of work perfecting his craft. There's a lot of roles that are similar to who I am as a person.

And like- What would be a fun role that you saw that you were like, I could do that? Like into the wild or something like that. Like the old survival movie, like that would be awesome. But like, yeah, there's so many. I don't know.

Have you studied acting at all? No, but I think that's like also fun. Cause I think you can, yeah, I think you can learn on the spot. You can hire acting coaches and there's something authentic about When you haven't done all that either type of person who would lean on your brother given the fact that like listen He just he's the top of his game. He's got connections and access or you would you stubbornly not want to do that Because you want to like prove to yourself that you know, you can do it without the help of your brother but or you just like fuck it he's my one of my

best friends why not why not have him help I would ask him for sure I would ask for help but again it's like I don't want to jump into it I'm not gonna be like guest starring on stuff and like I I'm happy where I am like I love what I do on social media I love like this life that I've kind of crafted outside of stardom. So like if the right role comes, I'm going to jump on it. But what about marrying your high school sweetheart that you think like that? Is that something you're into or are you guys just

like going to be boyfriend and girlfriend forever? No, that's definitely not. She sent in that question. She sent in that. Like how's your heart? She knows the answer. How's your heart going? She knows the answer.

We're working on it. Okay. So there's a deadline, timeline? No, Courtney's so down to earth. She would never like, look, we're 30, I'm 33. She's not going to put a deadline on me, but. So you guys have like, it seems like a healthy, we've known each other forever approach to this relationship. Yeah.

Yeah. And I am now in that stage, like I am looking at the next chapter. I want kids. I want, I want. You want kids. Yeah, definitely. Like I've got a lot of kids. I want kids.

I want kids. I want kids. I want kids. I want kids. I want kids. I want kids. I want kids. to this relationship. Yeah, yeah. And I am now in that stage, like I am looking at the next chapter. I want kids, I want to- You want kids.

Yeah, definitely. Like I've got a little brother and sister that are like four and five now. So I like, I've got to see the joy of like them growing up. And I want that for myself too. Do you see yourself being more of a girl dad or boy dad? It's tough. So like as soon as Olivia was born, I immediately of a girl dad or boy dad? It's tough. So like as soon as Olivia was born,

I immediately became a girl dad. Like I wanted a girl so bad. And now that they're getting older, I went to some dance recitals and like I'm seeing that side of it where like Henry is just like me. Like me and like I'm telling Henry which plants are edible and he's just sticking them in his mouth.

He's like throwing like playing fetch type stuff. Like he's just me and like runs and falls down and he'll play baseball. Like I see myself as both honestly. I would love to have both. That's a tough one for me. Is there anything that you are afraid of? You seem like you really just like go head first

into anything, but is there something out there? No, I'm still afraid of it so much, but I just love proving myself wrong. I think that goes back to the acting. It's like, that is something I was afraid of growing up, but I wanna prove that I can do it. So what about insecurities? I still don't like public speaking.

Like you said, this feels like I'm talking to friends and it's like very casual, but like tell me to go like on stage and give a speech. That's like a nightmare. I didn't even want to speak at the round table. You really were, I mean, at first you were pretty, there was a moment early on where you, I almost was like, I don't know,

he's kind of outspoken right now and he's almost too bright, you know, and then you calm down. Yeah, I don't know, he's kind of outspoken right now. And he's almost too bright, you know, and then you calm down. Yeah, I got to that. Calm down is maybe the wrong word. Did, I mean, it was, I think when you went after Bob the Drag Queen, was his response when he kind of jumped at you and called you misguided

and said your brother sucked at acting or all the, you know, did that kind of make you feel like, you know what? Yeah, that feel personal because I was like, damn. It didn't, so like the the, you know, did that kind of make you feel like, you know what? Yeah, that feel personal, because I was like, damn. It didn't, like, so like the whole, like, my mindset on that was like, I knew I had to say his name at the round table because I wanted that safety net.

Like I wanted everyone, I had told enough people his name that he knew I was saying his name. But if I say it at the round table, then if I die the next day, if they murder me, it's gonna put a major red flag on him. So I knew I had to say something and I knew I was gonna get destroyed.

It was just like, before the words even came out of my mouth, I'm like, I'm gonna get chewed up so bad. So it was like, I knew what I was getting into. My takeaway from that was that after we finished, Bob the Drag Queen was just like, Hey, props for doing that. And like treated me like an equal, which was so like that would, that meant a lot to me. Cause he easily could have doubled down and just been like, that's what you get for, for speaking up against me. Like I put you in

your place type thing and just bullied me a bit. So he, he was even like, he was playing the game. He was playing. Yeah. And that's the best part of Bob the drag queen. He's, he was playing the game. He was playing. He was playing his character. And that's the best part of Bob the Drag Queen. He's just a performer. He is the most quick-witted person in that castle. And as soon as it was over, he's giving me a hug and being like, hey, you did great out there. That's Bob the Drag Queen that I know.

So I would never get offended if he did that to me. How many nights did you go to bed seriously thinking, oh fuck, I don't know if I'm gonna survive this. There was like, I was super like, if you watch back, I was getting shield after shield after shield. That was one of my strategies going in was like, I'm going to get every shield. And like, that's how I'm going to win this game. So I think I got five shields in the first six missions.

Wow. And then I went on the worst dry spell ever. And I was going, I was like, I'm dead, I'm dead. And it was cause I thought Gabby was a traitor. And then that's how I eventually realized she wasn't a traitor. How is watching it back then? Super fun.

Yeah, cause it's just like reliving it was fun. So it's fun to see the conversations you weren't a part of like that when Sam was like trying to guess what Alan wore, or he made Carolyn guess, I wasn't there. I was like, thank God I didn't walk in, because I would never have known what he wore. Yeah, yeah. That was a good strategy by Sam though.

It was really clever. It was, it was smart. It was very interesting talking to Sam, just because I was like, man, this guy is not who people think he is. No, he's so low-key and down to earth. I was just hanging out with him two days ago. Did you, I mean, I know like, man, this guy is not who people think he is. No, he's so low-key and down to earth. I was just hanging out with him like two days ago. Did you, I mean, I know she left early,

but Chanel Ion, did you get- Oh my God, yeah, she came in. Yeah. You guys got a dose of her. We had fun with her. She's the best. I really hope that she gets invited back for next season because there is so much fun and drama that she brings

that just did not make the screen. She's one of a kind. Do you think they bring her back and make her a traitor? Oh my God, please do. She will put up a performance like we've never seen. What would you think about you being, like, did you go in like just wanting to be a faithful? Were you open to being a trader?

I wanted to be a faithful. I was afraid like Sam just flat out tells Alan, I want to be a faithful. I was afraid that they'd feel like. Slided by that being like, so I tried to keep it open-ended being like, yeah, I'm down for either my two best scenarios were to be a faithful or to be a faithful that was recruited as a trader, but I did a faithful that was recruited as a trader. But I did not wanna start off as a trader. Yeah, if I ever got the opportunity,

I would, I think the same thing. You should do it for sure. It's really just like, if I have the, if I get asked and I have the opportunity, like I've been asked before, it didn't work out. Like it wasn't like a ego thing or it wasn't like, oh, this isn't a show I wouldn't do. It just was like.

I just had a baby. Wasn't that why you didn't go? Was that, or just like the show, it's just like, you know, it's like, I had to work around some other obligations and it didn't work and blah, blah, blah. But like, it would be a lot of fun. I'm worried that I would have a target on my back.

Yes, I was gonna say, if honestly, if it was between you two, I think Natalie would do better. I think you might get the Wells treatment where it was like everybody trusted Wells, but they all knew he was capable of being a trader. And it's very, it's a hard spot to be in. The only thing I would have going for me over Wells is that like, also this is assuming people know who we both are and know our quote unquote reputations is that like, also this is assuming people know who we both are and know our quote unquote reputations, is that like, Wells has this like good guy, everyone knows Wells is smart,

but he's also like this affable, everyone loves him. So even I was thinking when I heard he was casted, oh, he would make a perfect traitor because everyone loves him and like he would be this guy or me. It's like, yeah, people might think I'm smart, but like, you know, sometimes people think I'm the bad boy or you can't trust me

or like I was the villain on Bat-Charnation or I would make the good traitor. And I don't, my hope if I got a chance to do it, that that would, cause I would prefer to be a faithful too. Like I don't think I'm a good liar. I mean I know I did well on special forces but that's not the same as like lying every day. And I love the idea of like trying to hunt. It's fun. Who would be the traders and I really I do think I could be good at that.

I think that that would be the second risk for you is that, like in our season you can tell they were going after people who are well-spoken. So like if you are well-spoken, put together a cohesive argument, you're a threat to the traders. Yeah. I would try to play dumb as much as I could, but I don't know how long.

I would love to see you on the show. I don't know how long I could, how long they would get away with that. Did that last argument from Gabby to Danielle kind of win you over in the, like, maybe Gabby's not a trader department? So that round table when Gabby went after Danielle. Yeah, yeah, and Danielle went after Gabby.

No, I already, Gabby and I were in an alliance there. Okay. Like, I think earlier in the episode, you see me talking to Ivor saying like, I might vote Gabby and stuff like that. That's the conversations you have in the episode, you see me talking to Ivers saying like, I might vote Gabby and stuff like that. That's the conversations you have in the morning when you don't want to show your cards. Okay. So then me and Gabby had a conversation where we realized that we need to get Danielle out tonight.

And I was like, you're going to have to do a lot of this roundtable because like, I'm not going to speak up the same way. So I was like, you're going to have to go at her. So me and Gabby were very much aligned. Um, and we knew Dolores was going to throw away a vote. And then me talking to Danielle was me waiting till the very last chance. To give her a heads up that like, Hey, your name's getting brought up. And I did that just cause I don't want to likeside a girl that I've been working with this whole game so closely.

So I tried to wait till the very last moment to give her the heads up so she couldn't go and strategize. Was there any split second when she was begging you to put Ivor's name down instead of hers that you thought about it? No. No. No.

But- Because at that point, you kind of look like you got to stand by your gun. I knew what I was doing at that point. I know looked like you got to stand by your gun. I knew what I was doing at that point. I know, but it was just the way she's like, Dylan, please, I'm begging you. She would laid it on.

Yes, and I can't like, it hurt. It was definitely hard to be in my body at that moment, but I wasn't gonna change my vote. What's the best way for someone who would go on that show to try to change the minds of people who are like coming for you? Like what do you think Wells could have done differently now that you can like hindsight being 2020 and you can assess his game?

Did he make a wrong move or was it just bad luck? No, I don't think Wells made a wrong move. I think and he might have even said this before, but I think maybe when he first got accused, it was so shocking to him that he maybe got a little aggressive rather than defensive or something like that. Like maybe he was, I think he was so shocked

that people were putting his name out there. So that might be the difference between him and I if I got the opportunity. Is that like, I'm kinda, I'd go in being like, I'm first, I'm gonna be first. Someone's gonna come for me, there's gonna be some housewife has said some shit about, I'm the fucking Joe or whatever, and someone's gonna know of me or know who I am

from the podcast base, and I'm gonna, and so I'd just be kinda ready for that, is opposed, and I would, I think I'd tried to play the card of like, like it's almost the opposite of Wells where it was like, it's, I'm too obvious. The best thing that Wells did though is like when you can be genuine in your, like there, there was definitely a moment where Wells is like, his eyes got a little watery and you can tell he was genuinely upset. So I think that's the best thing you can do.

When you can show with your heart and your emotions, like, hey, I'm telling the truth. I'm gonna go up there. When I saw him with tears in his eyes, I knew he was a faithful. But again, I was in this alliance and I wasn't 100% sure. I didn't want him to go home.

But at that point, it's so early. Everyone's just guessing. Totally. And people are, it seems like people are not voting for who the trader is. They're just voting to not be eliminated. Eliminated, yeah. So yeah, I think if he would have started that argument

with those tears in a way, like- So you believed Danielle's tears the whole time? No. Okay. No. But what? Yeah. time? No. No. But what? Yeah. I believe so.

Obviously. When Carolyn got eliminated, what did you think of that whole, I don't know what, you know, like what G was really going for? Yeah. Because I knew she was a trader at that point. So I wasn't going to run over there and console her. So yeah. At that point, look, I knew that I was very convinced that both of them were

traders and it was a weird perspective seeing them act. Do you think, I thought in this, the moment with the chess board, obviously the, that Carolyn and Danielle were able to manipulate when she said Tom and Dolores kind of pointed that out and she was like, I'm not saying you're a traitor. She kind of got really defensive. Do you think her getting defensive is what like put the target on her back? I think that was showing people for the first time, but let me step back even further.

So again, like we just had the funeral. Chrishell gets murdered in the funeral. Right. So now we're playing the game this morning of like, why are we still here? So for me, I'm like, Gabby would never have just murdered her friend and not murdered me. So I'm like, Gabby's a faithful a hundred percent. So now let's play that game for Tom.

And it was why the hell is Tom still here? Gabby would never have voted. Like she would have voted for Tom the first day. So who is keeping Tom in the game? Like who likes Tom? And then it clicked for both of us. We're both in the car together and we're like, oh, it's Carolyn.

Carolyn's the one that defends you. Like if anyone's talking bad about Tom, she has a huge heart and she hates to see it. So she was always defending Tom. So then we kind of realized, we're like, oh, Danielle's protecting me, Carolyn's protecting you. Then we get out of the car and we go to this chess game. And it was like, this is our highest suspect list now.

We go to this chess game and it was like, Carolyn messed up. If that was the first moment ever, maybe I would have been like, huh, that's a red flag. There was literally a look on your face and you're just like. Yeah, but going in, I was like, oh my gosh, she just confirmed what she's like, everything, that's a red flag. There was a literally look on your face and you're just like. Yeah. But going in, I was like, oh my gosh, she just confirmed what she's like,

everything we just said in the car. So that was not the first flag. It was like, that was the cherry on top for us. That makes sense. I do feel like if she, cause Dolores was like, well, you were the first one to say Tom. And she was like, no, I wasn't. I wish, I feel like if she would have been like,

well, you know, he was really pitching himself and kind of like went along with it instead of getting so defensive, maybe it wouldn't have been as bad. And, and look, I, Carolyn played an incredible game through eight episodes. Yeah. Like she was absolutely undetected until that car ride with Tom.

I mean, like having a chance to meet her for like 15 minutes and talk to her, like she, it's hard, she's hard 15 minutes and talk to her. Like she. It's hard. She's hard to read. Hard to read. And that's what that's the flip side is it's also hard to be in an alliance sometimes because like we're mean Danielle we're having one conversation a day and it was so coherent and cohesive.

Yep. We're still good. Carolyn and I would have opposite conversations where like I did have her back a hundred percent, but she's telling me I don't, and then we're both in tears. And we had that conversation a few times. So it's like, as much as I did trust Carolyn, I didn't trust her as much as Danielle at the end, because it was harder to work with her that way.

Back to just you, what do you think makes you who you are in terms of like, yeah, your character, you do seem like a really grounded. Down to earth. Down to earth, like, you know, just like nice guy, right? And like, I think there's a lot of people who could look like you, who has a very famous brother, and it's like a recipe for douchebag.

It really is, like, and you's like a recipe for douchebag. And it really is. Like, and you know, you don't seem to be, you know? I mean, I'm sure you've had your moments. We've all done things that we regret and we have had to learn, but like, where do you think that comes from? Good family and good friends. And again, like maybe having good goals too.

Like again, I think, like I said earlier, it was like fame was never my goal. And like when I left Warner Brothers, I was like, man, if I could make 70K a year, and like that's enough for me to have a great life. So like I was never about making so much money that could buy a Rolex or anything like that. Like I really like my priorities were being in nature,

like being with the people I love. Like my girlfriend grounds me, my family is super supportive. were being in nature, like being with the people I love. Like my girlfriend grounds me, my family's super supportive. So I just, I think it's all the people I'm with. I don't know. It's a tough question to answer. Like, why are you great? I don't know.

But I was just curious. I mean, yeah, just like what you would attribute that to. Yeah, definitely my upbringing. Yes. Because like I just, I'm blessed to have some friends, like all my high school friends I'm still so close with. What's your favorite family tradition? It was going up to Oregon to visit my grandparents. That was always something I looked forward to

cause we'd ski for two weeks and see my aunt and uncle up there. Now it's pretty much like anytime I can get up to see my little brother and sister, that's the highest on my priority. So like I took them to Montana last year. It's just like it's so fun to be able to share the cool parts of my life with them at their age. Favorite holiday? Christmas just because all my friends are home, my family's home.

So Christmas is definitely that time. Are you a good gift giver? No, I'm so bad. What's your love languages? Definitely not gifts. I don't want anything from anyone. I don't wanna, I hate even wishing people birthday. I'm so bad at it.

Oh my God. I know, that's not my- Getting gifts as an adult almost feels like an obligation. It's like, what do I have to do? Yeah, I'm bad at that. Love language is definitely access service. That's how you show it or that's what you want? Oh, that's what I love.

It's generally the same. If you, yeah, I mean, generally speaking, if you like to show love through access service, it's also just generally how you like to receive it too. Yeah, I guess that's true. So not gifts for sure. Access service is number one. Yeah, like if. Yeah. So not gifts for sure. The access service is number one. Yeah, like if someone is someone makes me dinner, that's like

That's the best feeling in the world. It's like that type of thing. Like when you can tell that some because I know how hard it is to think of someone and it's if someone makes you a cake type thing like They had to do a lot of stuff. They had to go grocery shop. They had to go cook all for this little cake. It was like, yeah, the effort is transparent. Yeah, the effort is what I want. And that when I see someone put effort into something for me, like, yeah, it makes me tear up. Do you have a moment from your childhood

that like sticks out as a really good memory? Yeah, honestly, it's like, there's no moment in particular, but the road trips with my best friends, we just didn't know what we were doing. We're getting in over our heads and like we go camping and forget the camp, the tent at the house. And then we're like sleeping in the woods with like a camping and forgot the tent. Yes. We trusted my friend, Evan to bring the tent and all he brought was a tarp. So then we're like in the woods, it's freezing. We're all like huddled up together like the movies, like stuff like that.

It was like, we were just naive kids that were growing up in the woods. And like, those are absolutely my favorite memories. Like driving through Death Valley, like we didn't even tell our parents we're going there. And now all of a sudden we're like 10 hours away. Our car is breaking down, like stuff like that. Like we just't even tell our parents we're going there. Now all of a sudden we're like 10 hours away. Our car is breaking down, like stuff like that. Like we just grew up together

doing stuff we probably shouldn't have. Those are my favorite memories. What's your biggest relationship pet peeve or and then just a pet peeve in general? Relationship, oh yeah, I was paying attention to you guys' nighttime, nighttime ritual. Do you agree? Whose side are you on? I'm on your side for sure. Thank you. Oh yeah, I was, I was paying attention to your guys's, uh, nighttime, nighttime ritual. Do you agree?

Whose side are you on? I'm on your side for sure. Like if you're- What specific part? The person in bed should be able to stay in bed. Yeah. And the person who's not in bed should go, like my question is how big is your damn house?

Cause for it to be a big deal for you to go back to the kitchen and grab water. It's like, it definitely was like,. It's like, I had to walk three flights of stairs. Maybe 50 steps. Yeah. Go get the water. No, it wasn't about the water. I had gotten the water. He needed to get the remote.

It was the remote. And I didn't want to watch TV. Let's do the stage again. Okay. You're beautiful girlfriends in bed. She wants to watch TV. You've done three rounds of favors for her already. You've set the house down. You've gotten her some water. You've done your nightly duties.

And then she wants to watch TV. And you're like, oh, you're ready for bed. You're tired, you're ready to go. And then she's just like, I can't find this remote. I need you to go get the other remote. And you're kind of oh, you're ready for bed. You're tired, you're ready to go. And then she's just like, I can't find this remote. I need you to go get the other remote. And you're kind of like, you know what? That sounded like an order, not a request. And you being an access service guy,

I would think that like the whole point of like being an access service guy is just feeling like you did something generous as opposed to like your job. And I couldn't help opposed to like your job. And I couldn't help but wonder like, yeah. So in those parameters, you've never been like, no, I'm not gonna do it.

This is why you'd be dangerous on the trailer. That was a good argument. But I did carry his child and give birth to her. So I don't really feel like I need to be getting up once I'm in the bed. I think that's tough. Cause then you're like watching TV in bed is that's if, if you don't like that.

Are you against it? Are you one of those? I don't like watching TV in bed. Or if I like, if you were going to do that, I'd want you on your laptop with headphones. What? Crazy. You don't like to be like cozy.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Whatever. I don't have a side of you. What is, do you have a relationship, pet peeve? It is a funny one. We both like to listen to audio books when we fall asleep or like audio, some kind of audio and we fight over whose audio we're gonna listen to.

It's like, are we listening to Jeff Lewis? We both agree that we can listen to Vile Files. But otherwise, like I have the stuff that I wanna listen to is she really doesn't want to. So we fight over that quite a bit, but that's not a big. Do you cook? Yeah, I love cooking. What do you like to cook?

My girlfriend laughs because I'm not a good cook, but I always taste great. So she always says there's like secret ingredients. What's the difference? Cause I think like a lot of people have recipes and stuff like that. I'm much more like, I get a meat, I'll put like rice in it. I'm cooking it all in the same pot, like one at a time or something. I'm very unorthodox cook.

Then I'm putting barbecue sauce and glazing it with balsamic vinegar. I'm like doing a bunch of different Italian, Mexican spices. It tastes good enough. Yeah. So she always thinks there's like a secret ingredient because she's like, if I made this, it wouldn't taste this good. Does she cook much? Yeah. She cooks. She's 70, 30 probably. She cooks more than me. I was thinking about this last night, what makes Nellie and I work or for the most part, I would say like 80% of the shows we like to watch, food we like to eat, places we like to go, it's similar. So there's not a lot of debates there.

And then what difference is, household chores, like I'm allergic to laundry, Nellie's allergic to washing dishes in the sink. And so I pretty much wash all the dishes's allergic to washing dishes in the sink. And so like, I just, I wash, I pretty much wash all the dishes. I pretty much clean the kitchen other than like now he will put things in the dishwasher. Even the things that shouldn't go in the dishwasher

pisses me off like fucking crazy. Like you don't have to put the pot, I wash the pot and pans. Like we don't put my knife in the dishwasher. Like it's not meant for the dishwasher. Like I got, this is my knife. I'm still learning the dishwasher. I've never lived with one. Now he just throws knife in the dishwasher. Like it's not meant for the dishwasher. Like I got, this is my knife. I'm still learning the dishwasher. I've never lived with one.

Now he just throws everything in the dishwasher. It's just basically the dishwasher for Natalie is a place to hide pots and pans that she refuses to wash. Sometimes if I'm out of town, there'll be like four pot, like four pans on the stove. Oh my God, when Nick's not there, I feel so free. I'm like, I can put the knife, you'll never know. The knives, the pot, the pans, everything's in the dishwasher. But again, like I'm not there. I feel so free. I'm like, I can put the knife, you'll never know. The knives, the pot, the pans,

everything's in the dishwasher. But again, like I fucking hate laundry. Washing clothes, not so bad. Folding, I would live out of a dryer. Like in my single days, it would like do a load of laundry, put it in the dryer, and then for the next week, I'm just pulling stuff out of the dryer.

I swear it takes me like an hour to fold like 10 shirts. Oh yeah, fucking hate it. But like it so works for us because like she, the things that I hate she likes and vice versa. That's great. That's a good relationship. What, like there are the things where you can't fold laundry. Yeah, so like I'm still figuring out the dishwasher. I just moved. I've never had a dishwasher. So like I, yeah, I'm figuring it out. Like I'm putting the stuff that's shouldn't go in there in there. Yeah the stuff that's, shouldn't go in there, in there.

Yeah. So that's new. She knows. What's, I like whoever cooks, the other person cleans up after cooking. Ideally that would be nice. Yeah. I won't let her cook. Well, we do have a baby that needs to be bathed.

So she, that is- It is nice. Natalie bathes wherever I can clean the kitchen. Yeah, that's good. But that, yeah, we do have our nice- We're in a routine. We never really even had to negotiate that. It just kind of-

Who vacuums? Me. Not me. Yeah, see, I don't like vacuuming either. No. I mean, I, other than the kitchen, Natalie cleans the whole house. And I think that's part of growing up is like,

realizing that, realizing that like, you can keep doing the dishes because it doesn't matter and she's going to pick up the slack somewhere else. Like I hate vacuuming. So like I'll fill the water tank or something. I'll do something else. I'll try to pick up the slack. It's so funny.

It's like there was like this some post or something somewhere that was like, what do your husbands or partners do? Like if you're getting ready for a big event at your house, Thanksgiving at your house, you're hosting, whatever, like what are your husbands or partners or boyfriends doing to help you? And it was like, mine cleans the garage. It's like mine goes and gets his car vacuumed.

It's like this stuff that you're like, no one's gonna see that, no one cares, but like, thanks for getting that done. So you're like, I'm refilling the water tank. Yeah, small stuff. That's what I'm gonna. Do you all live together? Yeah, we just moved into,

again, that's how I got my first dishwasher. I was in a one bedroom apartment for the longest time. So that was like kind of our thing was like, let's get some more space and that'll lead to a happier relationship because we were on top of each other in a one bedroom. So like if we have space, we can be in different rooms, we can figure this out.

But I think a lot of our fights were that. Like I like to say that in school, I was like a B minus student. I like did enough to pass. So when I make the bed, it's like, it's made. It's made. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not fluffing the pillows. I'm not folding stuff. I haven't made a bed since I, since maybe middle school.

You didn't have to in, in special forces. It's crazy. There was no bed. Yeah, there, yeah, there's no bed. You have a, well, you have a, you have a sleeping bag. I feel like that's so military. Making your bed is folding your sleeping bag and putting it in your Birkin. But it is crazy because he loves a made bed.

Not that, too. No, I've been like, why isn't the bed made? He won't do it, but he loves the made bed. I've definitely been like, what's going on here? Why haven't you done your chores? That is the clean sheets, crawling in, it's one of the best feelings in the world. Yeah, but before, Alex actually in a healthy relationship, I don't think I ever had a maid

bed. That's how I would be probably. What do you want to leave us with? Anything you didn't get to talk about or say? Oh yeah, I have a new documentary I'm releasing this weekend, which is cool. Just on YouTube, but it's like, it's probably the thing I'm most proud of. There's no just on YouTube anymore, man. I know, it's true. YouTube is like one of like, it's probably the thing I'm most proud of. There's no just on YouTube anymore, man.

YouTube is like one of the most watched platforms in the world. And I think it's, that's kind of my style. It's like, we could have tried to sell this or put it in, put it like enter it in festivals, but we're just proud of it. We want people to see it. Like that's really all it is.

And I think it's my favorite project I've done to date, but it was me and my main videographer, who's just now at this point like my little brother, like we've traveled the world together. I met him when he was 18 and yeah, so like we figured out how to create content, like just navigated this world together and then this is kind of like our big project together. We went to Guyana, South America. So we went to Guyana because we heard this story about this tiny village that lives in the Amazon, the indigenous village, that saved this

species of fish from extinction. And this fish is the Arapaima. They grow to 10 to 15 feet long. They're just like prehistoric looking fish. But that fish was going extinct. This small village was like, hey, we need to protect this fish. They turned it into like, they decided to protect them by fly fishing. So they turned it into like a catch and release fly fishing operation. The fish is doing great now.

The village is doing great now. So we went out to kind of interview the guy who started it all and catch one of those fish. So it's a, just one of those stories that like, I'm blessed that I even heard of. And the fact that I got to go out there, meet rovin, like this. When does that come out?

That's this weekend. So this weekend, so tomorrow, Saturday. This isn't come out on Friday. Yeah, it's, it's, it's on, it's 30 minutes. So it's short, but it's action packed. Like we are out there in the jungle fishing with indigenous Guyanese people. It's really cool.

It was an experience. Well, buddy, it's been great getting to know you better. Congratulations on winning Traders with your peers. It's been really fun getting to know you. I hope to see more of you. Maybe you can come back and talk some pop culture and reality TV. Dude, I'm in.

Or even next year when Traders comes out, you can strategize and talk the show with us when it's on, man. I love it. You guys make this look fun. It was everything I thought it would be from listening to your show. Well, thanks for listening, man. We're always flattered. It's like-

You bring Courtney next time? I'm going to have to. You're going to hear the good secrets. We'll have to double date. Can we double date? Super down for that. She'd love're going to hear the good secrets. We'll have to double date. Can we double date? Super down for that.

Yeah. She'd love that. Courtney will be so stoked. You love that. Well, uh, great getting to know you buddy. Yeah, same. Thanks for listening guys. We will see you on Monday.

Bye. You