The Viall Files - E899 Going Deeper with Emmy and Will

Episode Date: March 12, 2025

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper with Emmy and Will It’s the couple of the moment, together for the first time in-studio! After an explosive Southern Hospitality reunion, everyone has had the space to speak their minds… Everyone except for Will. Get ready for the interview you’ve been dying for– where Emmy and Will get into everything from relationship drama, to law school bullies, and more! You won’t want to miss it.  “He’s so good at lying, we forgot the truth.” Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod   Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w   Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  Are you struggling with any sort of dating, relationship, or life dilemma? Do you want all the answers? Email [e-mail] with your question in the subject line to express interest in appearing on the show!  To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   Thank You to Our Sponsors: Function Health - Function currently has a waitlist, but they are offering my audience the chance to skip it! Head to https://functionhealth.com/VIALL or enter code VIALL when signing up to skip the waitlist! Grammarly- Get more done with Grammarly. Download Grammarly for FREE at https://grammarly.com/PODCAST  Wildgrain - For a limited time, Wildgrain is offering our listeners $30 off the first box - PLUS free Croissants in every box - when you go to https://wildgrain.com/VIALL or you can use promo code VIALL at checkout to start your subscription. OUAI - The OUAI to a healthy scalp starts here. Go to https://www.TheOUAI.com and use code VIALL for 15% off any product.   Timestamps: (01:49) - Intro (08:12) - Relationship Venting (26:28) - Evil Castmates (34:10) - Law School Rumors (37:44) - Recorded Conversation (43:44) - Getting On Show (45:52) - Current Relationship with Show (48:49) - Recent Post (55:18) - The Dress Scene (01:01:10) - Filming Next (01:02:49) - TJ (01:07:34) - Current Friendships (01:11:18) - How Are You Feeling Now? (01:18:34) - Outro   Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @emmysharrett @will_kulp @ciaracrobinson @justinkaphillips  @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell

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I'm a little nervous to be here, but it's good. He looks nervous, everybody. He is nervous. I also threw my neck out on the airplane. So if I'm- Well, that has a lot to do with it. Yeah, well, if I'm wincing at anything that anyone says, it's not what they're saying.

I think it's- It's the physical pain. It might just be physical pain. Are you nervous? No, not at all. Okay, why are you nervous? I think it's just been really dramatic, like me not going to the reunion.

And I knew that this podcast was coming up. And I think that maybe I've put a lot of expectations that this would be a good way to really tell my story. And if that, you know, I'm hoping that I can do that. And if I don't meet those expectations, that's sort of what I'm nervous about more than anything else. Whose expectations are you trying to meet? My own.

Okay. My own. All right. Yeah. Emmy, how's your heart? My heart's great. I'm doing great. Are you? No, I am.

My heart's good. But like, what in like, for like, what? What do you mean? Like, my heart? We just ask that question a lot. It's a fun, loaded question. I'm like, well. It's interpreted however you want to interpret it.

My heart's happy. It's sunny and pretty in LA. I mean, I'm here. Emmy's always a ray of sunshine. I really am. You're gonna get the same answer to that question. So I guess where would you like, I mean, it sounds like you kind of came in with like,

I've been in your position before in the sense that I had been nervous about an appearance and maybe an anticipated appearance where I felt like I needed to maybe address or at least wanted to address certain things and I kind of like replayed that conversation over and over and over in my mind and things like that. So to that end, what are the things that you hope,

when we get done here, what are some points that you hope to at least address and cover? Well, I think we could talk forever about what happened in the season and get into the nitty gritty and I don't know that would be useful. But so I think for me, I just kinda wanna hear what you have to say

and maybe what you have to ask and your impressions. Because I think that'll be a good starting point to try to address the multitude of things that I feel like I have to say. How long you guys been dating for? Almost four years. Almost four years. Yeah, it's our birthday on Wednesday.

We have the same birthday. Yeah, we have the same birthday. We have the same birthday, March 12th. It's two days, yeah. So we take a trip every year. This is our birthday on Wednesday. We had the same birthday. Yeah, we had the same birthday. We had the same birthday, March 12th. It's two days, yeah. So we take a trip every year. This is our fourth trip together. Is that how you guys started dating, or did you find out after the fact?

Will was my F45 trainer, and I just remember I posted on my birthday, and you responded to my story. I was dating someone else at the time, and you responded to my story, and you were like, oh my God, we had the same birthday, and I was just like, no way, and he sent me a picture of his my story and you were like, oh my God, we have the same birthday. And I was just like, no way. And he sent me a picture of his license.

And I was like, that's cool. And then, see you on Tuesday at the workout. I'm like, okay. You're like, cool, bro. And then a few months later, I mean, honestly, three months later, we started seeing each other. Yeah, we had like a rock, not a rocky start, but it was not like one day,

are you gonna be my girlfriend? And then we started dating. And then. No, it was very much so like. Emmy was seeing someone else, I was seeing someone else, and then those relationships didn't work out, and we sort of kind of fell into each other's arms a little bit, and then.

Was it like a run in, or did someone reach out and be like, hey, I'm so young. No, we just always kind of ended up in the same place, but we never admitted that we just. Liked each other. Liked each other. It was like 4 a.m. with a bottle of wine on a porch. And Emmy looked at me and said, you know,

we're just friends. And then we started hooking up, so. And you said challenge accepted. Yeah, I said, okay. But for how long? Yeah, about a minute. It seems like you guys have been the center or at least part of the drama of the cast.

Sometimes it feels like maybe the drama makes sense or maybe you say something you shouldn't say or yada, yada, yada. Or sometimes it does feel like maybe you guys are just like a target of the rest of the group, it does feel like sometimes. I'm glad that comes across on the camera. At times, at times. It's like it's, you know. I mean, that comes across on the camera at times. Yeah, it's like it's you know

I mean we've known this group for so long so to ever think that 90 percent of the time their intentions are in good faith and because they care is Bullshit so like a lot of the time during filming it just was hard to You know listen to half the people that were talking to us because we're like well, I think too during filming, it just was hard to, you know, listen to half the people that were talking to us,

because we're like. Well, I think too, we've noticed, you know, our cast mates get a little camera drunk, and I think they've become in this third season very aware of what it means to have a storyline, what it means to be able to get screen time, and that if you are on the offensive, you're not on the defensive.

And I think relationships are easy targets. And I think maybe that's what you've seen a lot of is that maybe for viewers, it's been interesting to see, you know, why are they still talking about this? You know, why are they so riled up? That's certainly how I felt. Yeah, and then, you know, Emmy, you are- I'm reactive.

You are, you're Yeah, and then, you know, Emmy, you are. I'm reactive. You are. You definitely, objectively speaking, you probably don't do the relationship any good because your peers seem to know that if they rile you up, you're immediately good television. Like if you see a preview and you're having one of your, oh, this is like one of your, you know, things that you do, I'm locked in.

I'm like, oh shit, alright, well I mean, it's gonna lose her shit. Like something's wrong. Well it's funny, Emmy's mom has been saying, well she said like after watching this season that Emmy's been having those sort of like. She's like, I recognize those. Yeah, like not meltdown because I think that's mean,

but Emmy is very reactive, emotionally reactive. She's always been that way. I'm overstimulated so easily. Which is why for me, like when I see her do that, it's not, for me, my alarm bells don't go off, because Emi is just like a reactive, she feels deep. So I don't, I'm not alarmed, that's just who I know her to be. I mean, it is alarming to see your girlfriend cry like that.

I don't really suppress any emotions. I mean, it is alarming to see your girlfriend cry like that. That's not what I'm saying. I don't really suppress any emotions. I definitely feel them when I'm having them. And we feel them too. And then I feel fine the next day, because I literally got them all out. And I'm like, you know, after my scene at Republic, I literally went to Father's Day dinner with my dad

afterwards, and I was like, hey. OK. So. OK. There seems to be like a lot of things about your guys' relationship that feels untrue or unfair as it relates to some of your peers and castmates have directed towards you guys in the relationship.

However, it also seems like there's also things that maybe have happened or that may have some truth to it that maybe almost puts you guys in a bad, it's like if one thing's true, then they must all be true type of thing. So maybe let's address the things that maybe you guys have had to work on. Or maybe things that you've had to apologize for

as it relates to maybe how you guys have treated each other. I think maybe the criticism that's directed your way sometimes is maybe things you may have said behind Emmy's back. How much of that is accurate and true? You know, I think the starting point is very accurate and it's something that I'm like deeply apologetic and shameful of. And you know, I was going through a really, well, first I just don't want to, you know,

I want to explain myself without sounding like I'm excusing myself. Like I'm not saying at all that the behavior is like, okay, it's definitely a mistake on my part. But you know, I was going through like a really stressful time. My life was changing. I was just like, just had surgery. It was a lot of physical pain, yada yada. There's a lot of good reasons, but it doesn't really matter.

You know, and I came back to Charleston and I used alcohol as a vice and I kind of drank too much and I overshared and I overshared to good friends of mine about concerns that I have with the relationship. Like I thought that maybe we were growing apart and I was worried that Emmy was focusing on the wrong things and that's a conversation I should have had with Emmy and I know that. And I think that it was a nice moment for me

if there's any silver lining to it to recognize my own failure and then to go to Emmy and say like, look, I messed up and we should have had this conversation, I should have come to you about this. And then it actually let us talk more deeply about our relationship and our feelings. So it wasn't like you were going around town

just holding up a poster, being like, if you wanna hear some shit about Emmy, I'm the guy to talk to. This was a isolated one-off venting session? It was two weekends where it happened. It was sort of back to back. Okay. And it wasn't like, I think when you say like,

oh, Will was talking shit about Emmy, especially on a TV show, you just get to throw it out there and then you have to sort of prove a negative that it wasn't talking shit when it sort of. It was talking behind my back. Yeah, it was cousins to that, but it wasn't me just telling anyone that I hate her or I think she's a bad person or that.

There's definitely a difference between talking, venting about your relationship, again, doesn't make it okay, versus just like, there are people who do talk shit about their partners, and there are people like. They're just not on a TV show for the world to see it. Well, I don't even mean like in a defensive way.

I just mean there are people who like go out and just like will roll, you know, like they'll be out with the girls or out with the guys. Yeah, like I hate her. Some will come out and then like someone's like rolling their eyes about their boyfriend or talking shit about their, you know, their wife or girlfriend.

I mean like, oh, she's, I don't know if she fucking saw it. She's nagging at me or whatever. And there's a difference between someone who does that on a regular basis behind their partner's back versus again, like sitting down with a group, seemingly friends and inventing about your partner, which again, you could still cross a lot of lines doing that, but I do think the framing of both of those

are two very different situations because I've seen both happen and people who just openly talk shit about their partners, to me, I think that's one of the, I mean, that's as much of a violation as cheating to me, in some cases. If you're going around just thinking this is someone who has your back.

Yeah, it's an emotional and fidelity in a way. And you're just out there just like, someone who has your back. Yeah, it's like emotional infidelity in a way. And you're just out there just like, someone sounds like, no, they fucking hate you. Versus someone who again, who is just like sitting down with some friends and thinking it's confidence and then venting. But maybe it sounds like you were also

inebriated or something. Yeah, no, well I remember in these conversations it was always like, I love Emmy and I'm concerned about these things and I'm worried that maybe we're growing apart. And part of the issue is one, like I didn't have friends when I went to law school that really understood us or our relationship.

So I didn't have that outlet when I was like in school. So I'd come into Charleston for the weekend and it was like on my mind pressing. And then I, you know, added alcohol to the mix and blurred the lines of sort of who and where it was appropriate to have these conversations. But they weren't just to strangers, they were to our coworkers that have known me and Emmy

for years, and I think some people who brought it up said like, oh, he's telling the whole town, even one of my clients or like one of my friends. But those clients and friends are like, one of them is Naomi Olindo from Charm, who was my pen pal in middle school, who I've known for years. But that sort of context wasn't added to the conversation.

Gotcha. And one was somebody's roommate who I worked with behind the bar at Republic for years, who knows me and Emme well. And I was sort of leaning into those relationships to try to say, I just wanted someone to be like, no, you're stupid, this shouldn't be a concern. And how did it get back to you?

He told me. How quickly? Pretty much immediately. Like he said, hey, I've been venting. He came to me and he basically was just like, I expressed to others issues that I was having in our relationship and I feel bad that I didn't come to you about it.

And I think for me, what the biggest issue at hand, like at the time, none of my friends came to me about it. So it didn't seem like it was this crazy thing. You know what I mean? I was like, oh, you just vented to some of our friends about it. That's fine. No one's come to me about it.

I personally keep my relationship between Will and myself. I call my mom. I went to my mom. That's basically myself. But for me, I was like, I mean, I was pissed, but no, no one, none of my friends came to me about it. They just happened to bring it to me almost three months later. I mean, there was some things that people were saying, and obviously, like, you never know what's true, what's exaggerated, what gets thrown in there for an extra little, like, flair. But was there anything that your castmates were telling you

that he said that he had not openly said to you? No, Will basically said everything that my castmates said to me. My castmates obviously use a little bit more... intense terms. Like anorexic, he hates, like, kind of went really... Where you work out or something, yeah. And I'm just kind of like, I mean, going deeper into who I am,

like, I've struggled with my own image and body issues, and I'm almost 17 months sober right now. No, I am. March 1st, I was 17 months sober. And, you know, for me, this was the first time that the first time that I've really gotten myself healthy the right way, cutting out drinking, working out, doing all the things. And in the past, when I had lost weight, it was probably not the healthiest way. And so Will was just expressing concern

because he was up at law school and wasn't here with me going through these motions when I was in the heart heart of, you know, going through my healthy new lifestyle. And he was venting to others being like, is she okay? Like, I just, I'm not here. I'm asking the people that are closest to her about this. You know, I feel like there's a distance in our relationship

and it, you know, it's the first year of law school. And I just. And I think too, like I've always been hyper aware of it because I like I love her and I care about her and in the past like I've had to throw her scale out before because when I don't. It's fine. Yeah. I'm sorry.

But like she you know she she can become obsessive and I was worried I was seeing this change and I was hoping that it was attributed to this lifestyle but I just didn't know and I was sort of going to the people that are around her the most and saying, am I crazy? Do I need to be concerned? Have you confronted any of these people who kind of went behind your back

and in turn what, in your mind again, lesson learned, but it sounds like what you're saying was in good faith? No, I mean, I think the time and the place was inappropriate of me. And I'm just willing to fall on my sword. What I did was not right. I should have gone to Emmy about it.

Going and trying to confront these people isn't really, to me, the point of this all. I think the point of it was just to learn from this, to figure out how to communicate better in my own relationship. And going for vengeance or trying to hold someone accountable for lying. Maybe get a therapist. Yeah, it doesn't.

Sure, I mean, I don't mean like, I don't mean to pick a fight, but just more like, yo, like, you know. My number one priority is in relationship with Emmy. So, and these people, you know, this was never an issue until the cameras came out. Like, I can't emphasize that enough. So. I really can't emphasize that enough.

Oh, it was like one of those things where it was like, wait, where was this? This happened at the end of March. Well, some people also decided that they were gonna save it for the cameras and they wouldn't have conversations with us. They wouldn't hang out with us. But wait, who are those some people?

Just so you guys, I mean, this happened at the end of March and this didn't get brought to me until the end of June, just so you guys know. When cameras were rolling. Yes, so like the way that it worked, like these people knew about it, Brad, TJ, and I'm giving Maddie and Michael's an exception to this because one, Maddie didn't owe me anything at that point. We were just rebuilding our friendship.

She doesn't owe a conversation with me about it. And two, Michael's didn't have a relationship with Will, so I can understand where Michaels felt uncomfortable. And Michaels and Maddie did not wanna speak on it. It's Brad and TJ who have a relationship with Will and I for three years now, who know the both of us, who had every opportunity to have said something to us between the end of March and before filming started.

And even when filming started, it was like, yeah, they had a conversation with Will, but then they loved to be like, you know, we're closer to Emmy. Okay, then where was my conversation with you guys? The dinner table at the lake house with 12 people around us, eight cameras, and a production team behind us.

That's when you finally wanna bring up something that you know is something I've definitely like, like was hard in our relationship that you know, because you've been best friends with us. I'm like, you want me to sit here now and be calm? I'm going to lose my shit. Like. That's valid.

Did you not feel like Michael's being one of your closest friends and did he not say, was he at the bar when you came in? Did you not feel like that was a little bit of a betrayal from Michaels just like not coming to you as your friend being like, hey, I don't know your boyfriend but he did say this and like, I'm your friend first. Because it was on the clock, I think that Michaels felt

like it was manager Michaels, not my circus, not my monkeys, this is not my relationship, not my business, like I don't know Will like enough to get involved in it. Michaels also wasn't even 22 years old yet when it happened. He's a baby, he's 21. He's learning life himself still, so I give him a lot of grace for that.

Well, once his cameras are rolling, he sat you down. Well, that was once it had already been brought up on camera for the past week. And when Lake came to him at the front door, that was the first time he realized that people were talking about it. He did not say anything about it. And once the toothpaste is out of the tube

in front of the cameras, like. It's kind of like. Yeah, it's getting talked about. Yeah. And Michael's coming to me one-on-one. I respected that. I didn't lose my shit. I stayed very calm.

I was like, this is great conversation. It's once I have an, and I get it. Like, I get it, like I get it, but these are supposed to be like my real friends, like not just like my show friends. Like these are people who we vacation with and spend our free time with the other nine months of the year.

And for me, I was like, you really think I'm gonna think this authentic if you're gonna sit me at a table right now on Lake Spur. This is a classic Bravo move right here. Did you feel the contradictory between when you did sit down with Michaels in one-on-one where he was like, you were like, yeah, I've known about this.

And he was like, well, why didn't you tell me? Did you not feel the like, well, why didn't you tell me? That's what I'm saying. I'm like, and what I tried to explain, I don't know if the viewers got this, was like, my relationship is between Will and myself. I'm not gonna go around yapping about our relationship. My bad.

It's, because I'm like, I know how this, I know what job I have, I know what career this is, and I know how evil our castmates can be, and I know how they can twist narratives, and I know how they can mess with people's storylines and their lives, and I don't trust them to a certain degree, especially with something that's so valuable to me, which is like my relationship with Will.

This isn't some funny like game to me. This is my life. This is the person I've been dating. It was my mistake to not think this would ever come onto the TV show because I think it was just naive of me. And in seasons past, I think the producers were very clear that if it doesn't happen when we're rolling, we're not really too concerned about it.

Always have been said that. Yeah, so just stupid of me to think that we weren't going to have to litigate this four months later. Yeah, I feel like that's how things start in good faith. I'd also imagine producers went around and were like, what's kind of been going on? And they were like, well, Will came and was yapping about him. Yeah, they always sit down with us before we start. But it's also a fine line though, too, right? Like, devil's in the details. You're

a lawyer. You know that, right? Yeah. Like it's just like, if it doesn't, unless it happens on camera, we don't care about it. Well, it happened on camera once they bring it up on camera. And then we have to bring it up on camera. It happens. You know what I'm saying? Like it's, Like it's hard though. I'd rather it have happened on camera because then you have all the context. But when the story's told months later and I've already gone through all the emotions and process this and healed the issue in our relationship and then it's like, okay, I'm on a TV show now and this is three months later, right? I know how this show works. You have to film it for 10 weeks. You have to go in your green screens then for the next six months,

and then you have to go sit a reunion in February. And I'm like, okay, this happened in March. It's 10, 11 months later now from an issue that if it would have been during filming, would have only been like eight months later. So it's like, I really don't get to just put a lid on what happened. It's like, you have to keep reopening it and living it.

And I'm just kind of like, oh my God. And like no one was listening. Bet you'll never talk shit behind her back again, man. You really had to. Not due to any TV show. I think the idea is that I learned my lesson the first time. But the thing that I think hurt me the most was that no one came to me either and was like,

yo, well, what's up? Like, why did you do this? Are you okay? Is your relationship good? Even just in like, hey, you had concerns three weeks ago, four weeks ago. How's your relationship doing? What's the update?

And instead I think it was like, oh, let's put a ribbon on this. This will be a great storyline for me that where I can go on the offensive this next season, I don't have to talk about my life. I don't have to be interesting. I can just kind of take this rotten flesh and throw the hyenas out.

Yeah, rotten TJ. I mean, for me, because they're like, well, why didn't you come to us? And I'm like, you're still the ones that brought it. You're still the ones that brought it to me. You still did it. You can't tell me that you felt comfortable and all of a sudden at Lake's birthday

is when you finally feel comfortable. Yeah, I don't know if you need to be told this, but those two people are not y'all's friends. Yeah. TJ for sure. Well, I think when he said- Because TJ's talks, we can get into TJ, but the two-twos. I think they both have their flaws.

Oh, trust me, I mean, Brad's just done a good job of hiding it. They're different. Oh, okay. Staying focused at work can be incredibly challenging, especially when you have multiple windows open on your computer, emails, messages, documents, and more, all vying for your attention every time you switch between tasks.

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that enjoys hurting people. Not TJ. I think, yeah, I think Brad enjoys inflicting pain on others. Really? I don't know how else to explain his behavior. What makes you say that? I mean, does this go back to the bomb

that was dropped at Reunion, or is it further back than that? I mean, no, exactly. I think hindsight's 2020 for sure. I mean, it all starts from the very beginning, which was in season one, me, Maddie, and Will, we kind of brought these cheating allegations to Brad being like, we know that you slept this woman and-

Or he was home wrecking a relationship. Home wrecking a relationship when this woman was dating another man. Bradley was. Bradley was. While Bradley was seeing Maddie's best friend. And these two women worked together at Republic. And so we outed Brad for that. Maddie then says that she saw him getting a BJ behind the Republic alley. She outs him for that.

Brad is very now listen, I'm pretty sure those are both. I know the first one's true. The second, I'm pretty sure those are both, I know the first one's true, the second one I'm like, okay. And so Brad's pissed off and six weeks before we start filming season two, his client and him, you know, essentially. He found a girl. He found a girl that had gone out with Trevor one night

and the girl, Sammy, the real story is she went out with Trevor and she actually made out with his friend at the bar and went home with his friend, never Trevor. And for the next six weeks, Brad and this girl were conspiring to get her to hang out with Trevor again so that they could make out. Brad was coaching her to- So he's like setting people up.

He was coaching her to cheat. And yes, coaching her. And when that didn't happen. And this is what the tech show at the reunion, this is the text that Andy saw is Brad saying, I found a girl who's gonna break up their relationship. And Maddie and Trevor. Maddie and Trevor's. And just so we are clear,

in the group chat is myself, Will, TJ, Joe Bradley, Mia Alario, and Bradley Carter himself. So, just so we know. And this is the thing that Maddie was really upset about in the beginning in the reunion. Yes, and I came to Maddie the night before the reunion because I just have had too many crazy things dropped on me on the stage, like with the cameras and everything,

and I had so much, Will wasn't there either. Will didn't bring this to Maddie. Will wasn't in the room. I was in a meeting downstairs and I walked up to the hotel room and I was like, oh no, this is happening, isn't it? I was alone with Maddie, Joe wasn't even there.

And I looked at Maddie and I said, has Joe told you the truth about what Brad did? And she goes, no, what are you talking about? And my heart's like beating out of my chest and I'm like, Brad conspired with Sammy and lied. Trevor never cheated on you with Sammy. Brad made it all up. You were right the entire time.

How did Brad get away with this? Because he's a manipulative. Because he definitely was not the focus. He's a really good liar. He's a really good liar. Well, I think the story also, like it's not just that he found this girl and he coached her to try to break up the relationship. He's a really good liar. He's a really good liar. Well, I think the story also, it's not just that he found this girl

and he coached her to try to break up the relationship. When that didn't work, when Trevor wouldn't do it, he said, well, we can just say that you made out with him. If you go on camera, I'll bring you around the cameras. You say it, you can't prove a negative, and then we'll see what happens. That's like some- Now you know why I freaked out all season.

Like freaky level shit that he's capable of doing that and like doesn't really have, I mean, he showed zero remorse for that at the reunion. He was like, listen, I can take accountability and like that was like, oh, I'm sorry. He, you know, what was really just rich is like, he's so good at lying, we forgot the truth during filming. Like it wasn't until we went to a dinner,

I remember like Brad saying something and Will being like, what? He was so good at, we forgot that it wasn't even real. The people that were aware of it forgot that it wasn't even real. And before we filmed the season two reunion, TJ was texting Brad saying, I'm going to out you for making up

the Trevor Sammy cheating rumor. I need a storyline for the reunion because I'm worried I won't make it to season three. TJ was saying this. I have three options. He was texting Brad himself and Brad said- Well, he says I have three options. I can either out- No, he doesn't say

I have three options. Well, this is what he was telling me. Oh, later on he does, yeah. He says I can either out Joe and Luanne, who have hooked up, I can out you Joe and Luan, who have hooked up, I can out you for the Sammy thing, or I can talk about this cheating rumor I've heard about Mia and her boyfriend.

And he picked the Luan thing because it had the most steam because it's connected to another Bravo show, and that's what he went with. That's crazy. And so full circle then, you know, we start filming season three and I'm like, okay, it's gonna be all good by all. But on the text messages that from the reunion

is texts from Brad to Emmy saying, I can never be the same kind of friend that I, or from my friendship with TJ is ultimately broken because he would threaten to do this. Like he's gonna out me for this. Like I would have never told him. Like, and I'm like, you know, Will and I aren't innocent of this either.

We were complicit in knowing the information and not speaking up. But we didn't conspire with Sammy. If you watch season two, you don't see any scenes of Will and I bringing her around or anything. We had our own stuff going on. Yeah, we had our own shit going on. But I mean, it's messed up.

So you're saying that Joe Bradley knew about this and he also never told Maddie? Yeah, I'm the one that told Maddie and she literally just like. How long did Joe know? He knows at the beginning. He was in the original group message. The group message, this happened April.

Why wasn't that addressed at the reunion? It was a short reunion, they cut a lot of it. I mean, all this was spoken about but only so much what made the cut. I mean, all this was spoken about, but only so much would've made the cut. I think Joe will say anything that people want to hear to their face sometimes. And that means he's gotta stay friends with everyone, which means he's not ever gonna turn his back on Brad.

He's too scared. Even if that, and he's not gonna tell Maddie what she doesn't want to hear. Well, not just that. I think more importantly, the thing with Joe is that how do you tell the woman you're dating, by the way, I was complicit in a fake cheating rumor against you and your ex-boyfriend?

And I think too, like, I just wanna address, like, our complicity, like, I... Screams messed up. We felt horrible about it, and we felt like we were carrying this around for a long time. Since we've gotten closer with Maddie again, and with Joe and their relationship, like like we really became real friends with them

And I really love watching What happened to us this season and knowing that Maddie went through that herself made knowing the truth of what she went through Yeah like when I came up to the hotel room and Emmy was doing this like I just start I started crying to Maddie because I was like I just like I can't imagine what you've been through and I because I was like, I just, like, I can't imagine what you've been through and I, like, I'm so ashamed that I was even, I even had touched this. And like, knowing what I know now and I hate that

it was my own pain that made me realize this because I think that's not really a great quality to have to be hurt yourself to do the right thing. But. Sure, part of life. How old are you guys? It is part of life. How old are you? I'm 26, almost 27.

We're 31 and 27 on Wednesday. Don't say that now, we're 26 and 30. You're definitely old enough to know better. No, no, I had a few Peter Pan years. Not just that, I also think you kind of get wrapped up in the game, like sometimes you get wrapped up in the whole no pun intended but production of it all. You just got wrapped up in it.

And I think for some people, for Joe, probably his motive was Trevor's a shitty dude, I don't like him anyways, he cheated on you once, you shouldn't be in this relationship, like, I don't really care. And for Brad, it was, I'm going to ruin your relationship because I'm vindictive and spiteful and I wanna see you miserable.

And so it was two different motives with the same conclusion. So how much of the rumors about you in law school cheating cut stem from Brad? It was hard because I think we never really knew what the rumor was or anything about it and it came up at that Vegas dinner and we were actually told by production like this is there's no proof to any of this. If you talk about it or try to address it on camera it's gonna gain traction and it's

gonna stay a storyline. Right now it's so dumb that we hope it gets cut. Like just like let it die. Like it's not a big deal. So you know, we were actively discouraged from talking about it, from trying to address it or anything, so we never really figured it all out until. I imagine you also didn't wanna talk about something. It was like ridiculous.

Well, it's just like back to season two. Well, that's what I was gonna say is that like, I think what people don't realize is that this all came out like supposedly this was a rumor started at the law school in February, which was the exact time season two was airing. January and February of last year. So people are watching a show where it's like,

oh yeah, Will hooked up with a girl in a bathroom. And then that's somehow the same exact rumor. So in my mind, it's just this one rumor sort of getting regurgitated through a TV show into a- Game of telephone. that's somehow the same exact rumor. So in my mind, it's just this one rumor sort of getting regurgitated through a TV show into a. Game of telephone. Yeah, into like an environment that doesn't understand reality TV,

that doesn't know who I am, and it's easy to just say, oh yeah, that's Will, that's the thing. I'm not even sure that that was the rumor at the law school. We had a phone call with Austin's girlfriend before, so we didn't think this was getting discussed on the TV show anymore, and then we were like, we heard that they were filming.

I had a phone, so let me clarify this. Will texted Austin's girlfriend's brother. The night of prom, right? The night before, the night, was it the morning? Morning of prom. The day of prom, because all of a sudden Shit's getting fishy. Everyone's acting weird. I'm trying to mend my relation by like relationship with TJ and Brad They're acting weird as shit and I'm like something's going on We also heard that they filmed a scene about the cheating room

Yeah, I'm like thought this was like off the table and we're like, what the hell are they doing? So we're like, okay, let's call you must have had total anxiety. We don't know what's going on. So we're like, okay What do we do? We're like, this is a fucking ambush. Will's gonna text Ali's brother. So Will texts Ali's brother. Well, that's where we thought this rumor came from. So I'm like, okay, this is a person

who's just graduated law school. Because we're guessing the whole time. I, you know, I just, as a professional courtesy, as a law student, said like, I don't wanna involve you in this thing. Like, I just feel like I need to ask you you personally and if you tell me you're not involved, I'm gonna make sure that we don't mention you or your name anymore in the TV show.

This is your friend, colleague, the person who was. This is the girlfriend's brother who we had assumed that this rumor came from and he said. It's the only link between Austin and the law school and no one ever told us where this rumor came from so we were guessing. I texted him just saying, like, look, I want to protect you from sort of what reality TV can be

as a professional courtesy. And what happened is that Austin wasn't supposed to be dating Ali, because they have sort of a weird history. Really weird. And the family does not like him. And he was like, oh, first off, I didn't even know that they were dating. That's not good.

And second, I've never heard anything but great things about you at the law school. I've never heard this rumor anywhere. So, Ali is... Her brother then, I guess, reaches out to her and is like, what the hell is going on? And Ali ends up calling me, and this is before, literally right before I go to prom.

She tells me Austin was encouraged to exaggerate the rumor or to make it more juicy. Encouraged by who? People, people, probably with some headphones, some microphones. That basically she was like, this isn't true. He's just been encouraged to talk about it for juiciness.

And I'm like. Yeah, and at this point we were so tripped up and we felt so David and Goliath about it We recorded this conversation. So we have the receipt of Ali saying I don't trust anyone. I was like I'm recording this So we have Ali we have Ali recorded telling us that this rumor is complete bullshit So that's that's us walking through the finale. You know, our friends are fishy We know that this is sort of come out of nowhere You also know that they're willing to do whatever it takes.

We know that they're willing to do whatever it takes for a storyline. And so, like when you watch the finale and the reunion, that's where, that's sort of the prerequisite, like, such facts needed to understand, like, where our heads are at. This rumor really flopped with Austin after Vegas. I mean, if you guys watched the episode

when they're at Run Club, Austin's like, I don't know anything else going on. I don't know, I can just kind of. Which would make sense based on the phone call. And he's like, I don't know anything else. And then Brad and TJ are like, we've got this, we're gonna take this truth and we'll build two lies and this is gonna be magic.

That's why at the finale, it makes more sense now, why when we went to go talk to Austin, TJ and Brad came around because Austin probably didn't believe the rumor anymore at that point because he was like, there's nothing else. All of them saying you walking away means you're guilty is I mean, just the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard in my life.

It's like you're walking away because it's like, this is nonsense and no one, this isn't productive. You gotta ambush, you gotta ambush. Craig walked away when he got accused of page cheating on him in that scene last season. I'm like, people walk away when it's so dumb, why would you give it any breath? Well, also what TJ and Brad tried to do was

bring in stories of my peers in law school and try to use it as ammunition to make it true. And some of these stories are incredibly sensitive where I was helping people out who were going through like difficult situations that I did not want to then expose or talk about their situations on camera. Like I let a girl stay at my apartment

when me and Emmy were filming the reunion together. Emmy knew about it. We were at a season two reunion. We were up in New York. We were 500 miles away. That's the girl. That's the, you let a girl stay in your place. For weeks, it was two nights.

Who's just a friend that happened to be a female in a situation where. She was in a bad situation and she was moving into the apartment complex and you said, you can like. Put your boxes in my apartment here, Mikeys, if you need to sleep on the couch, cause I know that you're going through a lot, go for it.

It's probably, it might be a better place for you. What did you make of Mia saying you were the most unfriendly person she's ever met and you would never offer for someone to sleep? It's rich coming from Mia. Yeah, it's. Oh, sorry. Can I come to Will's defense for that?

It's just like, I'm a dick to some people and nice to others. Just because I don't like you, or I don't, you know, whoever you are, doesn't mean I haven't been nice to other people. Yeah, but Mia's also not very friendly. So if she's like the gauge of friendliness, then the gauge is a little broken. Okay.

But Mia's sassy, and she'll be the first person to tell you, I don't have empathy, I'm not an empathetic person. Yeah, she will. She will fully admit that. So for her to then- It's funny when one person decides how the world treats me is how I guess apparently. Yeah.

But, you know, so then it's like to litigate this issue with people that are betraying us that are supposed to be our friends based on this like prerequisite situation that's like incredibly complex and difficult to then when a camera's in your face like go through all these steps about why we feel this way. Well, it's also like, clearly you two made decisions within your relationship, like couples do all the time, and someone got wind of something that y'all decided to do and decided, like thought it was their position

to like interrogate the two of you about it, where it's like, you're like, no, I was there, I knew she was staying, I was on board with her staying. We have no. And I don't regret it, I would do it over again. I don't care about the outcome. But it's like they feel like y'all, they deserve for y'all to come to them

and tell them every decision that the two of you make in your relationship. And then when they have concerns they don't ask, it's just like an isolate and ambush. They wanna be. Isolate us from the group, stir up the hottest pot of tea that you can find, and then splash it scaldingly hot

into our faces, and then watch Emmy cry and watch me walk away. And they figured, hey, that's good TV. It's a good recipe for TV. Yeah, it's a great recipe. I can't, honestly, I can't blame them because it worked pretty well. They're the kind of people that are also like,

keep us totally involved in your relationship, tell all of us, but like shame on Will for telling anyone about your relationship. I'm like, what do you want? Yeah, also like, we're really worried law school is gonna be hard on your relationship, and then it is, and then it's like, how dare you. He's a dick.

Let this be hard on your relationship. So where did the, like, does law school have a prom? I wasn't aware that that was a thing. It's called Barister's Ball. Okay. See, I told ya. Yeah, it's like a thing, every law school has it. It's essentially just like law school prom. Lawyers want to party too, I get it.

Yeah, lawyers love party. You know the funniest thing, Will didn't even go to the Barrister's Ball. Yeah. He didn't even go. Oh, the where you took this girl home. So that was the whole, you took some girl to. Didn't buy a ticket, yeah, like that's just total crock. And then if you look at like what the finale was

and the setting, like in my mind I'm like, imagine all of this is true. What were they setting Emmy up for? To be humiliated. They're expecting this to be true. So they're expecting me to invest my time into making a law school prom reenactment, you know, during filming.

And then for my friends in the middle of this prom to drop, hey, by the way, Will cheated on you with the girl that he brought to his law school prom. Bam. And I'm just kind of like, you guys are fucked up. Well, it's kind of what Maddie said, where it's like, you know, when I guess TJ comes to her and is telling her and she's like, oh my god,

so she's trying to throw a prom to make up for the fact that he took someone else to his law prom. No, I wanted Emmy to come to my law prom with me. I was skiing with my dad in Aspen. She didn't tell her dad the weekend and he booked a trip to Aspen for them and I was upset with her. I was like, I really wanna take you.

And then I sat at home. So how did you end up in the show in the first place? He did, not me. Yeah, so I- Is it your fault? It's actually, it's sort of complex, but I was managing and bartending and modeling in New York and COVID hit.

And I came back to Charleston and I had like an LSAT book on my desk for years because I'd always wanted to go and I dusted it off and I was like, all right, I gotta make ends meet, you know, in the interim. So I started working at Levis Bars. So I worked up the street at this place called First Place, which is now LaMars.

And I was seeing a girl at the time, and this is the same. You don't have to get, it's gonna be so complicated. But it was the girl Reagan from season one. And then that was the girl that I was seeing before, Emmy. But we could do a whole podcast on this. We would need like a whole, like a chart behind us. Anyway, it's your fault that you guys got on this show. So they saw me and Reagan sort of hooking up

and we were both sort of eccentric people and we were working for Leva and they were coming to shoot sort of like, not like a pilot, but you know, they were doing their- Test the waters. Yeah, they were testing the waters. Interviewing. And I was like, this seems fun.

It sort of fell into my lap. I never wanted to do reality TV and it was never a dream of mine. I still feel a little cringe that I'm doing. But me and Emmy had just started seeing each other and they were filming the intro. And Emmy was blacked out drunk. And I was like, she kept coming up and distracting me

because we were doing this big long shot. I could ruin all the scenes. And so everyone had to get their marks right because it was like they were filming all 10 of us in one long shot, which I don't think made the final edit, but it was a cool concept. But Emmy kept coming up and distracting me like right as it was mine and they'd have to reset.

So I was like. Like who is this blonde girl that keeps ruining all the scenes? So I was like, Emmy, you gotta get out of here. And we were like bickering. And then I put her in a, in a petty cab and she went home. Trevor drove me home, no I'm kidding. No, yeah, and then her contacts fell out, and she came back, and she's super blind, so she was like Velma on the bar.

He's mixing the story up a little bit. So much, but basically, whoever was shooting this was like, who's that girl, and what is this relationship between Will and Emmy? And then Emmy got casted shortly after. And then what is your relationship status with the show as of today? It's difficult for me, I think the clearest thing and then Emmy got casted shortly after. And then what is your relationship status with the show as of today?

It's difficult for me. I think the clearest thing for me is that I'll always support Emmy and her position in the show. I think that I've probably ruffled some feathers by not. Probably? I've certainly ruffled some feathers by not going to the reunion. Yeah, it's something, you know, I'm not,

I regret it a little bit. What was the ultimate decision to not show up? I mean, for the critics who are listening to this now and saying, well, why didn't you just go to the reunion and plead your case there with all your peers and give them a chance to, you know, respond, and yada yada, what would you say to that? Yeah, it just.

He didn't trust that they would tell the truth. Yeah, I think we were just starting, because of the way that the show had betrayed me in our relationship, it felt like that I would have to dig myself out from under a mountain. And the ways that I would address it would need like a long form segment

just to try to break down all the nuances. And on top of that, the people on the stage I knew are just very interested in whether or not they're making it to the next season and are sort of willing to say or do whatever. They wanted that fight. And yeah, and it was just gonna be a bloodbath. It wasn't like I could come on here

and explain to you guys like, hey, this is what happened and we could have like an engaging conversation. It would have been sort of- Liars. Two steps forward, one step back, two steps forward, one step back. And these people, they aren't my friends anymore. And they were going to be on that stage

and try to act like we were still friends and use that as a position of power to engage in a conversation with me that I felt was ultimately a fake conversation. And I also just, like my mental health at this point, couldn't take it. It sounds like you're not sure what your future holds. And it almost sounds like you're not

even sure if you even have the opportunity to come back if you wanted to. But if you did, where do you stand if you were given the opportunity to put water on the bridge and come back to season four, even though you didn't show up, would you say yes or are you still on the fence? I'm still on the fence. I think there's some conversations I need to have about how the show is filmed. And I also think that the two most important things

in my life right now are my relationship and what's left of my legal career after all this. But I just don't see reality TV as a format where relationships thrive. Yeah, no, you're definitely, I think, you're the exception, not the rule, if you are in a relationship. Yeah, I think there's me not.

I mean, we had Taylor Greene on recently. Yeah, I know Taylor very well. And she said she mentioned to you guys that before season one, your relationship would probably be under fire. Did you think it would be this intense? No, we didn't think it would be this bad, but we probably should have. Yeah. Sorry. I mean, Spencer and Heidi might be the only couple that's really made it. Amanda and Kyle.

Amanda and Kyle. And they've gone through the wringer. And honestly, I don't know how they make it. Yeah. I mean, Brad recently posted- He blocked both of us so we don't see anything. Well, it's made its way onto some fan pages. Posted a picture in front of a law school saying like law school 101, how to try to cheat on your girlfriend. I applaud his commitment to trying to make me feel bad. Took a field trip to do that.

Yeah, he took a field trip. I think it's funny because I'm not sure. He took a field trip to take this photo. I think it is so weird that these people are so invested in your relationship. You know, I think he's, you know, I'll just say that he's probably taking a picture on the outside, I'm not sure he would,

he could get in. But. It's super weird. I mean, listen, I get it, like, people cheat, there's rumors circulating about all types of people, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And like, it's like the age-old question, right? Like, if you have a friend friend and you've heard a rumor

about infidelity between two people who are dating, like do you say something or do you not say something? That's always like a debate, right? Unless it's like cold hard evidence you walked in on it. Whatever, I mean you can debate it. My point is, it's not even, you know, there's a lot of opinions about whether you should say something or not.

For the people who would argue. And who you say it to, right? But for the people who say, you know, there's a lot of opinions about whether you should say something or not. For the people who would argue. And who you say it to, right? But for the people who say, you know, you should say something, and I think there's a time and a place where like, you know what, I think the truth needs to prevail, fucking just put it out there. It might not be received well,

you might burn some bridges by you just speaking your truth, but sometimes maybe the truth needs to get out. But there's a difference between doing that and like fucking making it your fucking mission and your whole life and becoming invested in the story and making sure that whoever you tell believes you. It's just like, wait, what? It's crazy.

Like, who gives a fuck? Well, then it's like, who are you other than the fact that you've attached yourself to this story? And it just becomes really weird. And people do, I mean, Brad's not the first person in the world to make their whole existence about like making sure other people believe

some kind of rumor that has nothing to do with them. I don't know why people do it. Yeah, that's also not true and has never had a single receipt. None of our actual friends that aren't on the show, none of my girlfriends came to me. No one ever heard any of this. No, even if they did come to you. No one ever heard any of this. No, even if they did come to you.

I'm just saying, like, they've just been asking you a question and being like, hey babe, and being like, what's up, versus like, I know what you're doing. For me, that was the craziest part, too, and I don't know if it made the cut, but I literally said it took Mia 24 hours to hear that Will talk shit about me.

You think it's gonna take seven months to hear that Will's cheating on me and taking other people to the, there's gonna be pictures, there's gonna be text messages, there's gonna be a roommate, there's gonna be so much evidence, you think it's gonna take seven months? I'm like, shut up. I mean, the fact that TJ, one of them was like,

I'm gonna make this my life mission and came up with nothing. If he showed up to the reunion with not one ounce of proof or a new life to any of the rumors, which just feels really nasty to me that like people still had the audacity to raise their hands when Andy questioned like who still thinks Will cheated on Emmy. Oh, and the girls who were laughing.

Oh my fucking God. Yeah, that was really mean girl energy between Mia, Grace, Lily and Lake. Lake is real mean. She's just spoiled and she doesn't know life. It's gonna hit her in the face one day. She also doesn't understand our dynamic. She's been here five minutes and-

The girls are not tight. That's my biggest issue with this season. There was no investment in having a girls night and us all getting to know each other and us having our own. We never had one scene where it was just like the girls filming together. And for me, I'm just kind of like,

I'm not gonna get to know these people in these different environments. Grace and Maddie, I've known for a long time, Mia didn't film besides the last three weeks of filming, cause she was in Trinidad, she was gone. And so for me, I was like, I don't know who Molly is. I kinda, honest to be honest, keep forgetting who Mia and Grace are.

I kinda went, oh my God. Grace is iconic though. Grace is iconic. I don't know if I'm gonna let that one slip. And maybe she is, I just don't. Grace is iconic. She's not in every episode. Grace means well, okay? Grace means well. Like at the end of the day. She was kinda mean of the ring.

Yeah, I know. It was hard to watch the three of them laughing at you as you're like breaking down about a friendship. It's like. I mean, you know, Michael was a real one during all that. You know, he, it didn't make the cut, but he stood up for me and was like, he was yelling at Molly at one point.

But yeah, Molly didn't get one ounce of airtime. Yeah, and I'm not gonna give her any here, but you know, I just, you know, from my wish, you my wish for next year is that there's actual girls who wanna be on the show, women that wanna be on the show, that have their own identity and that don't have to leech onto mine, that can make their own statement

and be interesting by themselves, who are a little bit more mature and actually captivating and interesting. And that fit well with the group and will last for a long time. Because if I'm gonna be with you for a long time, I, you know. I mean, the girls gotta stick together.

I think that's what makes great television is like a group of girlfriends that you can tell at the end of the day, they do love each other and there is love there, but like they fight like any relationship, there is just none of that with your cast. Mia has taken the bitchy title, no one else can take it. We need other different personality types.

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The pocketing, the dress money. Oh my God. And then you walk in and you're like. And he's like, is that what you were doing? Made it so much worse. I will start, I will start. Yeah, we'll explain. So let me give you full backstory.

Saturday night, this is before the shift, I start getting really sick. It's like midnight. I can't swallow anything, my start getting really sick. It's like midnight. I can't swallow anything. My throat's killing me. I'm like crying. We're sleeping out at Will's parents' house. It's like now like two in the morning

and I'm like, Will, just give me Nyquil, give me something. We have to film tomorrow. Like I need to sleep. I need to sleep. And Will gives me like two Nyquil. And so I wake up and I'm like in a fucking trance. Don't know what, I'm hot, I'm cold, I'm overstimulated.

We tried filming with Will's family that morning. I'm like crying in his mom's bathroom. I'm like, I don't feel good, I feel really sick. And they're like, you don't have to go to work. And funny enough, I'm thinking to myself, I don't trust that my truth will be told that I actually called out sick. So I'm gonna go to work, you know,

Maddie's now DJing, she's not working. And one of the other girls has called out sick. So I'm gonna go to work, you know, Maddie's now DJing, she's not working. And one of the other girls has called out sick. Siobhan's gonna be alone. I'll go work with her so she doesn't have to work alone. LOL. And I end up going to Republic. And you know, you see the scene of me leaning against the bar and I look at Will and I give my thumbs up to him

and it's because he's making sure I'm okay because I felt like such shit. And Siobhan pulls me aside, I was like, hey, can I talk to you? And this is a girl that has like been my girl at Republic makes me cookies every week. She's flown me down a Wawa from New Jersey before like, this isn't just like my coworker. And she's like, I need to ask you a question. And I'm like, Okay, like you look so nervous, like what's up? And she's like, so you know, you're an ambassador for

Revolve. I guess I know I'm not on TV so I can say the brand. You're ambassador for Revolve, like you get commission every month and you have an affiliate's link. Like are you using your monthly commission to pay for the dresses? And so then you can pocket that money

and go spend it wherever you want. Or are you using your link so that you get commission that money and go spend it wherever you want, or you're using your link so that you get commission off of purchasing the dresses and making 10, 15% off the dresses. And I'm dumbfounded, I'm like, what? I immediately already am, I will say no. Here you tell the story, I'm like, I don't, huh?

Well this someone, just my interjection into the scene was like, all of a sudden someone's like Emmy's upset I'm out at the bar and my brother's coming to film for the first time and so I'm like trying to text with him I'm like nervous. He's got to come get mic'd up and stuff. So I see Emmy I walk in she's giving me like the Don't fucking come over here eyes like the I got this like like just stay out of it stay out of it So I walk up Will's getting involved in work drama. I'm like, yeah, out of it, stay out of it. So I walk up, she's crying. Here's another thing they're gonna do, Will's getting involved in work drama. I'm like, I don't need that.

So I walk up and she's explaining the situation, I'm like, so this didn't happen? Like, because I'm like, if it didn't happen, this is all so dumb. Well, I'm also reacting really big. But then I look at the situation and I go, all right, this is two girls fighting about a work issue. I'm coming in as like the man who's in law school now

that's gonna try to like adjudicate their dispute when I'm coming in as the man who's in law school now that's gonna try to adjudicate their dispute when I have no dog in the fight. It's just gonna be me mansplaining to them how they need to resolve a work issue and I don't work there anymore. And I said, it's probably better if I let them solve this issue on their own

and then I'm there for Emmy afterwards. And then me and Emmy filmed a hour long scene afterwards where I was consoling her and me and my brother were talking about the situation But that I mean in the moment in the moment in the moment. I was really like oh You are so dumb for being such a smart person Just so you know, but I was also like at the same time. It didn't look good I I know that I was like I could have probably rubbed her back or kissed her on the forehead.

And that was- No, but I mean, that's a lot of context. I'm also clocking at work. And I mean, my whole thing was they don't show it, but I pull up my affiliate's link. I show her everything I've ever been gifted. I show her everything that's been bought in that month so that she could see that I didn't like

use my link to get commission. I show her everything. And I show her the actual invoice where I use like my Amex to buy it. And what got to me though was she was really intent and was like, I need to know if I'm getting fucked over. And I'm like, I am a VIP server on an equal platform like everyone else.

I am not the AGM, I am not the VIP leader, I'm a VIP server. I ordered these dresses for the girls because I wanna do a kindness to Michael's to help him out, have his load be easier. And I know everyone's dress sizes. I know Maddie and Eva need an extra extra small. I know that we can't have bra straps showing,

you can't have midriffs showing. And the big alleged crime that you may be getting commissioned? No, I'm not. Yeah, using her affiliates link was the thing. I might just be getting commissioned off of- That would have been a good idea. I mean, honestly, it seems stupid if you didn't.

In the moment, I'm thinking, Tim, let's go. Your friend should've been like, girl, get your fucking bag. That's what the other VIP server said to me. One of the VIP servers, Julie, came up to me. She goes, I don't know. It's kind of weird that they would be like- She's like, you buy my VIP server, Julie.

She came up to me and she was like, you know, I mean, you spend all the time, the effort, looking for the dresses, picking them out, ordering them, doing our returns for us. Did you getting commission cost anyone? No. No. It wouldn't cost anyone. The amount of times that I use my own codes for things

to buy things for myself is like, I mean that's not a crime. I felt kind of dumb at the moment. I was like, that's kind of smart. But that's all the more reason why I would have the exact response that you have, which would have been like, I don't know and I don't care, but like, huh?

Yeah. Was there a part of you that wished you would have been like, the fuck, no, I didn't. I was so, like, I was so fucked up on Nyquil. I was so exhausted. I was so tired. I was, the audacity to me, because she's not on the show, and it's in the middle of our shift at work,

and the response, no matter what, was gonna be like, me freaking out and disrupting the workplace. So I found it inappropriate to begin with. And secondly, I was just like, what the fuck? I was just like, because I've spent the past year. Your response was off the wall. When does filming start up again? They haven't told us yet, but usually it's like mid-May.

And if you don't come back, she's gonna be fighting on her own. Brad's gonna be like, you said I was evil. I don't give a shit. Eventually, Will's gonna graduate law on her own. Brad's gonna be like, you said I was evil. I don't give a shit. Eventually, Will's gonna graduate law school and be a lawyer. How much time do you have left? I've got one year, more a year.

And then I gotta pass the bar and do all this. Were you worried about your peers making fun of you for being on the show? Yeah, and it's gotten really bad at this point because of this season where I am now struggling to sort of have privacy at school where I've got female peers that I love studying with and doing projects with that are really intelligent students.

Nope, I literally can't be at the school alone with a female or else I see on some page or spread somewhere that Will's at the school with a girl and it's like I'm literally just trying to get an A in this class, but it's not that simple anymore. And it's made it sort of uncomfortable for me. Yeah, that's unfortunate. And what's also so dumb too is like, I don't think,

I don't know if people know this, but like, Will broke his ankle like last New Year's. He had to get surgery and a plate and six screws put in his ankle. He couldn't even drive a car. So I was living with Will. She was my living girlfriend. For like six weeks, driving him to school every day, bringing him lunch.

Like I was at that, he could, I'd have to get his knee scooter out so he can knee scooter around. Like during this said cheating rumor accusations, I'm like, Will can't even drive a car. He can't even do anything without screaming in pain. I mean, look at him. I mean, look at him. Y'all think he's fucking a girl in the bathroom.

Look at him with his little neck tweak. Like you think with a little ankle pain, like he's gonna wake up in the middle of the night and like scooter, like are you kidding me? So it was just pathetic to me. Do you think TJ plays the victim? Oh. Yeah, we need to talk about TJ for a second. Oh.

I think TJ, he's built his entire identity around the show and I think that he's wanted to be on reality TV for a long time. I think he wanted to be on Charm for a while around the show. And I think that he's wanted to be on reality TV for a long time. I think he wanted to be on Charm for a while before this show. And I think maybe he's just, it makes him insecure when he then watches himself back on the show

and he's just very hyper aware of how much time he's getting. Like for the minute. Screen time. Screen time to the minute. That all may be true, but that doesn't like justify. But I do think that it, well, I get what you're asking. Is he just that kind of person in general?

Maybe you guys can clear some things up for me, but it's my understanding that Joe was blackout drunk. Yes, he was. And that no one's disputing that. No one's disputing that, Joe was blackout drunk. I see where you're going. And I just don't know why we're having a conversation at all about this topic, given that one person was blackout drunk.

Yeah, just wasn't. And doesn't remember anything. And doesn't remember. Damn. And that like the fact that TJ is like pushing this narrative when Joe's like, listen, I don't know what happened. Maybe something happened, maybe something didn't happen,

but I don't fucking remember. And if like, sure, I don't know what happened, but like it seems on the reunion, like TJ, you know TJ is obviously very emotional. Joe had a girlfriend at the time. Whether he had a girlfriend or not, he's blackout fucking drunk. And why is TJ able to victimize himself

when the real question is, is like, what the fuck were you doing? Yeah, and I think what's also wild is that he, it wasn't some secret, right? He was vocal to, in Charleston, about this thing with Joe. When it happened in summer of 2021, just to clarify. So I think, you know, I think at some point he's saying like, I didn't really tell anyone

other than Brad, like that's not true. He's been talking about it season one, season two, season three, it's always been a conversation. So there were like three people at the reunion who said that Austin said he told him and then Maddie said he told her. TJ's saying you're crying, it's all fucked up because of his feelings.

I'm just like, Ro, you went out with your friend, he got blackout drunk, something happened, he doesn't remember. You tell everyone about it, which is like. I don't think you're off base. I'm just very disturbed disturbed by like what, what's being ignored versus like the narrative TJ is pushing and how.

It's, it's such a, it's such like a difficult topic. Like I, you know, it's hard. It's hard. It's hard to talk about these things. And I think maybe we don't talk about it enough, but you know, I had never, I guess just being so wrapped up in it all, I had never really like taken a step back and seen it like that way and it's weird.

But we didn't because it was never TJ pulling the moves. The accusations were Joe was pulling the moves, if that makes sense. But this was all coming from TJ. Exactly. But that's what, I mean, you know, that I think is where it kind of became, I don't know why we never thought of it like this.

I mean. Because we've talked about it for three years. I mean, he didn't, you have Joe being, sitting at the reunion being like, dude, like. I guess I'll take your word for it. I was blackout drunk. I mean, well, he's kind of like that you were spread, like I had a girlfriend, you were spreading this rumor about me. And like, he was like, well, he's kind of like that you're you were spread. Like, I had a girlfriend, you were spreading this rumor

about me. And like, he was like, well, that's how I felt. And like, I was hurt. And why didn't you go to him? You know, back to the whole case in point, like, go to the person in the situation where you have the problem with. Like, for me, I was like, you should have gone to Joe.

If you created a narrative that Joe's in love with you over it, you should have gone to him asking his intentions behind it. And when it finally came out that he didn't even remember it, you spent three years creating a false narrative over something that originally came from you to begin with. It just to me felt like a lot of what? Like confusion.

Yeah, I mean, I've always thought that if it's true, it's wrong. If it's false, it's wrong. Yeah. Right? Right? Yeah, I think that's like the simplest way to put it. And I just don't know why TJ is able to like milk this storyline for a storyline where it's just like, bro, like you seem like the bad guy

in every version of the story. He doesn't care if he's the bad guy, he just wants to be on TV. I've always felt really bad for Joe through the whole thing. So I can't imagine how difficult it's been for him to navigate. Yeah, and I was curious as you guys know the situation. We used to be best friends with them.

So we actually know everything about these people up until probably the last six months. Yeah, probably until a year. I used to know their every thought. Like literally their every thought. Yeah, we all had each other's locations for like three years straight. Hung out 24 seven.

Joe Bradley lived one floor above me in my apartment complex. Season two, when Will was at Joe Bradley's apartment, he was one floor above me to the left, literally. So and where you would say you're not friends with anyone at this point? No, I mean, that's a little I mean, I am texting Michaels right now as we speak. I mean, I'm like this with Michaels. I think Michaels, your first season on a TV show, it's a big learning curve.

You and Maddie are really close now, too. Maddie and I are really close. I've been texting with... Do you think you guys have bonded over these false allegations? Well, I think we both, like, we've gone through a lot together, and we haven't always been on the same side, especially, I mean, season two, we definitely were really butting heads.

And now that I've experienced kind of what it's like to have everyone just attack your relationship, I'm just like, I can't believe... Yeah, I don't know how she did it. I don't know. I can't believe you didn't cry. I can't believe you kept it together so much. Like, you know, and I have a lot of empathy and I have a lot of respect for Mad, and I have a lot of empathy

and I have a lot of respect for Maddie and I have a lot of love for her. And I, you know, she's someone who's been on this show with me from the very beginning. And she's someone that I want to always have her to lean on me too, going forward. Like we figured it out and we are not each other's enemies. I want her to be like one of my closest friends.

Like she's a true girl's girl. She means well, and she will ride for the people she loves. And, you know... Do you think her or Michael's would have your back in a room full of people who don't? Yes. Now I do. And the issue was at first was that Maddie thought that Will did cheat on me because of her experience

with Trevor in season two. So all season she thought that I was- Before she knew everything happened. Before she knew the truth, she thought like, oh, this happened, Emmy's blind, Lee in love, because this is what she had convinced herself. And once I dropped the bomb that Trevor never cheated and she was gaslit and lied to so that she could understand

why I don't believe anything at all that's being said to me. She finally was like, oh my God, like, Will didn't cheat on you. Trevor didn't cheat on me. Like, what, that's why she said, what's even real anymore? And so...

Where do you think she's gonna stand with Brad? Yeah, no, me and Maddie are gonna be... Do you think Brad's gonna get his next season? I mean, I hope so. Like, how... I mean, I think... Karma, Will, me and Matty are gonna be- Do you think Brad's gonna get his next season? I mean, I hope so, like how? I mean, I think- Karma will, I don't need to do any digging. You can't, that's my thing with Brad

and he like makes these posts and everything and I just don't feel the need to engage because I think if you go out into the world and you act that way, you'll, in one day you'll get what's coming to you. No, I get that, but I mean, even just, if we're just talking pure TV. Maddie will want to.

You know, I'm just saying like, I mean, shit, you got half your cast like coming up with storylines for the sake of storylines. Well, there is a storyline now. And one of those storylines is one person, the cast is making up storylines to hurt other people. To ruin other people's lives. Which really threatens the show

and it threatens our- Mental, I mean, honestly, everything's spreading rumors about you or other people that are involved with you. It really, you know, for all the people who misuse the term gaslit, it really fucking like can like fuck with your like... No, a picture of Bradley Carter is next to that definition in the dictionary, like literally.

I've never seen a man so quickly gaslight people. Well, I think it also hurts, I think it hurts the show as a whole, cause I don't think anyone who's involved, you know, top to bottom wants there to be, you know. Yeah, it only works once. Yeah, the creation of a fake. You don't want it to all be lies.

Of something that's fake. The idea and what we'd always hoped for from the start doing the show is that, you know, we were a really tight friend group and we wanted to go through the ups and downs of being friends together. And I think that for from the start doing the show was that we were a really tight friend group and we wanted to go through the ups and downs of being friends together. And I think that was always the plan and somewhere along the way it got sidetracked.

And I think it's been bad for everyone. I think everyone in some ways is gonna be hurt by that. And it's just really unfortunate. All right. How do you feel right now? I feel good. It's hard to re-litigate these things again and again. I think people don't understand that about reality TV is that your life is not your life.

Your life is over and over and over and over again to audiences. And then people comment on sort of how it's documented and, you know. What do you mean Will didn't cheat on Emmy? How do you just have fake cheating rumors that doesn't happen? Yeah, if you're in the real world, maybe. Like. And our lives aren't like.

Not even the real world. I mean, people are bored. People are bored. And it's an easy target. And our lives aren't separate too. Like, I think, you know, my whole life isn't a show. Like, I have school and stuff like that. And the problem is now they've bled into each other

in a way that's been tough. And I appreciate being able to go on something like this with this sort of format and have these longer conversations because I think they're important. And I think that it compliments the show world very well because you get this more nuanced take and you get the ability to really speak about who you are and maybe not just the caricature of you

that people see in a limited context. That's also tough too, just because I imagine you guys have spent the past hour and how many minutes It's phone by. defending rumor this or rumor that. It's exhausting. But like every couple, I mean, you guys have, I'm sure your relationship problems, I don't know.

I'm sure shit has happened in your relationship and it's like a weird thing because everyone knows no relationship's perfect. And you're sitting here like, well that didn't happen and this didn't happen and that's not true. If we were to be honest about any other issue, then does that get piled onto the fake ones? Or is that, so it makes it hard for us to want to be open.

Even open up about the shit that does happen. Because we were always like, we were always super open to talk about this. Like if we had filmed all of that stuff about, you know, me inappropriately oversharing, I would have loved to have that conversation in different terms. Like, and to really talk with, you know,

Brad and TJ and my friends about it. But the issue is that it blew up at a big dinner where I wasn't there. And it's like, okay, well, how do I have this conversation now? Because it seems like it's already been pre-written for me, when what my role in it is. And it was really disappointing for me, and it made it the season as it kept airing,

I felt more and more of that, that other people were telling my story. And then it made it hard for me to actually want to tell the real story of us. And I don't think we really got a chance to talk about like our fights and our problems. These lies grew legs and then we didn't even have the opportunity to address the lies

before everyone else gave it legs. And it's like, what have you built out of, what simple explanation? I mean, I applaud the two of you for being able to get up and go and film the show and do it. Thank you. It's not something I would ever wanna do. It hasn't been easy. I can't imagine that it has,

but I do wanna ask you if Grace Lilly is saying, like, maybe this career isn't for you when you were kind of opening up about, like, just how hard this has been on you. Mm-hmm. Did that... I think I just wanted the audience to understand because I think a lot of times they forget and you were kind of opening up about like just how hard this has been on you, did that? I think I just wanted the audience to understand

because I think a lot of times they forget that there is such a production behind what I go through and that you don't just live it once, you live it so many times over and over and over again. And a lot of what you see during the season is me realizing we are at a big dinner table at Lake's birthday. This isn't some cute little side issue.

This is the season. I've realized everyone's been talking about this for the past three weeks. This is the season. This is the storyline. This is it. I'm the target. This is gonna be the, I just,

and that's where my pain, I'm like, ah! It does put your outbursts into just, and that's where my pan, I'm like, ah. It does put your outbursts into context. But that's why it seems. It's like your freak out seemed to come from you having like this aha moment. Like this oh shit moment, yeah.

It's not about Will. Mic'd up, realizing like, oh, I see how this. It is an ambush. You guys have been talking about this for three weeks. Oh, you've all, your scenes last week. Yeah, and I think she's realizing, okay, we're gonna have to talk about this for a year. Forever.

Like, in that moment, she's playing 20 Steps Ahead in the chess game that can be the show sometimes. And that's my biggest thing, that's why every time I freak out, I'm literally like, I can't, they can't just leave us alone. Like, I can't get a break. And it's because I literally don't get a break every day.

I have to talk about it. I mean, but fair or not, there it is. It's my career though that I chose. I mean, that's, you know, some of the people I know in Bravo world, like I, you know, to Nellie's point, like I couldn't do what they do. I'm not even willing to do what they do. And they are professionals and it like,

there's hazard pay, so to speak. I wish I was dumber. So I didn't know exactly what I was gonna go through. Because everything I knew I was gonna go through, I've went through. I went through every minute. It's almost like you have to like separate the person and the character.

And you have to be okay with being the character and then allow people on the outside world to not know the difference. Yeah, I think for me, I've, especially this season, struggled with that so hard that I really question whether this is the right thing for me. And when I look at Emmy, I think that she's a star.

And I just think that she, it's hard for her to put her relationship in that context. If it was just Emmy, you know, the servant republic, then I think she could do it, you know, 10 times over. I mean, it does kind of feel like, yeah, this is where you guys are at in life. Yeah, this is life. You're in law school, you're working at a bar,

and then the show's being filmed in this moment in your life, and it seems like the show has been able to. Just, he's disregarded, I mean, he doesn't care. You know, like you have this, you got law school and really kind of taken almost like this legally blonde kind of like, you know, you're in law school and you have the, you've planned out your guys' life.

They sensationalized, yeah. Together and like, I don't think there was a scene where you talked about like proposing or something and it was very much like you've decided. I would sound pretty silly in that. It's like a reward. You know what's so funny too and I don't know like the viewers wouldn't know this but like Will and I are very neurodivergent. Like I was legitimately diagnosed with ADHD when I was five years old. I was put on 20 milligrams of extended release Adderall

when I was five. I have been on Adderall for 22 years. So for me, like, just so we know, like- I'm also- So like- Y'all are in good company. Just so you know, like I am a very, like I deal with sensory processing issues, sensory,

like I am a little special sometimes, and I get overstimulated. I could feel the mic on my back in some scenes and I'd literally be tweaking out like because it was falling down my back while I'm in a serious conversation. Like the lighting is blinding my eyes. You saw how many times I took my sunglasses off

of my conversation with Michael. And like Will also is a different version of that. Yeah, I just say things weird sometimes, but. And I think they take it and they run with it. I gave them plenty of ammunition. I can only blame myself for that. Because it sounds like we have no chemistry and I'm like to the viewers probably at this point.

You guys seem normal enough after 90 minutes of talking. I hope so. Thank God. You feel better? You feel less nervous? Yeah, I feel better. You know, I thank you feel better? You feel less nervous? Yeah, I feel better. You know, I thank you guys for giving me the forum.

And yeah, you know, I think we could talk forever, but I don't know if that's going to make it any... I mean, is there anything that you feel like you didn't get off your chest? No, I feel better. Okay. I feel better. I think that's the best. I mean...

Clearly, you overthink. Yes, clearly. I know, you know. He does. So like you've done a good job. I don't, you know, and don't think, and don't sit there and replay this in your head over and over. I'll try not to.

I mean, it's just, I mean, I think like one of the last little bits and pieces that bothered me the most this season was seeing how one-sided they tried to make my relationship with Will and how they tried to make it look like I was so obsessive over it and Will couldn't give a shit

as if it's a one-sided story where. Emmy wears the pants a lot. Yeah. Well, it's one thing I've learned about reality TV and I've been in this business for a long time is things have a way of coming around and it's always the long game and the people who do make TV,

they know what they're doing and even if it was the last scene in the finale of The Prom where that whole group kind of bizarrely followed you and ganged up on you while you guys were supposed to have this one-on-one conversation with Austin, I really think painted a picture of what the real dynamic of this relationship is. And don't know what holds the future for you on this show.

Sounds like Emmy, you're back for sure. But things have a way of flipping itself on its head. And maybe Bradley or TJ might have to be in a different position. Yeah, I think I'm very lucky that Emmy is such a, she's very glass half full kind of person. So I just think going forward, no matter what happens with the show,

or who's involved in it, or who's in the hot seat, I think that, you know, I try to borrow a Patreon Emmy's book, which is just to see it for the best. Well, thanks for showing up for this. Yeah, we appreciate it. Thank you guys for listening. Hope you guys enjoyed this episode. We'll see you I am Rob Word, the host and film historian of A Word on Westerns. And I'm RJ Word. None of my credentials make the most sense for this podcast, so I'm going to leave them out. Our award-winning YouTube series, A Word on Westerns, is now a podcast. If you're even the slightest bit curious about the genre that shaped American film history,

you've come to the right place. Because we're gonna be speaking with actors, filmmakers, and creators about some of your all-time favorite Westerns. Every Monday on A Word on Westerns.