The Viall Files - E90 Bachelor Recap- Ep 6: Incest is Best with Mina Kimes

Episode Date: February 6, 2020

Award-winning journalist Mina Kimes joins us once again to dissect this overwhelming second episode of The Bachelor this week. We talk about our favorite group date ever, we debate the unceremonious exit of Sydney, and we rehash that boring one-on-one with Hannah Ann. Do you want to swim in the shallows or the deep water? Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what is up everybody welcome back to the fourth time this week world record world record hey you have the bachelor to thank thank for that we honestly we weren't expecting them to drop two episodes this week we weren't planning on doing this but since we've been dedicated this season to recapping it we didn't have it in us to try to recap four hours next week with lauren lapkus which by the way tune in for that yeah i was like we don't need to do another one nick's like we have to do it there's so much to get through I'm like yeah I like we just skip it and then what really sealed the deal is our friend Mina Kimes who we've had on before said she was available to break it down and I was like

all right well then fuck it let's do it because she's she's so good at this I mean she works for ESPN yeah and she is an analytical person and her job is to break down sports. Yeah. And all The Bachelor is is a sporting event. Exactly. This has been probably my favorite recap that we've had so far. Oh, really? More than January?

January was fantastic. Don't want to take any away from Jan. You know? Jan. I call her Jan. You know? But, yeah, I mean, different. from jan you know jan i call her jan you know um but uh yeah i mean different but uh i thought i thought mina was great and uh so much sloppiness this episode we really needed a voice of uh reason yeah just to help us keep it on track so it does that just to remind her we're talking about the

characters it's not an attack on anyone's personality or anyone personally generally pretty kind yeah i just like to say that at the beginning yeah if anyone's listening who's on the show we don't know you yeah i look forward to meeting you in person yeah i'm sure as a collective group you all kind of suck but hey yeah who knows? Maybe there's something in the water in Chile. Chile. Anyways, we'll keep it pretty brief because this is kind of an impromptu episode. We don't have too many friends of shows to share with you,

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and have a nice calming effect. Smells great. Anyways, NH nhos.com 30 off code natural we'll keep it real simple code natural 30 off and without further ado mina thanks so much for coming back thank you so much for having me back uh i think you were really made for these. I love the show. What can I say? For those of you, Mina is, as we know, she's been on this show before.

She is a very successful rising star over at ESPN, an expert in breaking down all things sports and Bachelor. We're happy to have her. I can talk about football anywhere. There's only one place really. Well, actually, don't tell Julia Lemon, but this is my passion. I know.

This is truly what I was put on earth to do. And I felt like you're the perfect person to have on this episode. It's five hours this week. This is our fourth episode of The Vile Files this week. I'm a little lost in what's all going down. And I know you've already taken notes. I know you're very detailed.

You're really going to help us break down because, yeah, I needed someone with your attention to detail. She literally just got back from the Super Bowl, and she took time to take a page of notes on this episode. She did. So it's very thoughtful. We're very happy. I know our audience is very thrilled to have you. Before we get into this episode, give us your quick thoughts on the season so far on Peter is the Bachelor and any other news in Bachelor Nation. Well, when I walked in, I said to you, I really, really, really don't want to come across as a hater,

but it's really, really, really hard with this season. And I want to give people context. I have watched almost everything. More than I have. So my tolerance is high, right? I have built up a strong strong tolerance to you know bad seasons bad contestants bad bachelors and bachelorettes but this is i feel tested by this especially this week i think it's um as i suggested in our last episode and we will get into it. It's become Influencer Bootcamp.

It's Influencer Bootcamp. It's, I think, the Mean Girls Club. Mean Girls Club, for sure. It's giving me PTSD to high school and pretty much every episode. Yeah, like everything's heightened and I've said before, it is. It's the bachelor world

has always been a high school element. Even if it's not petty, just because of the isolation and like it reduces your kind of your simplest insecurities which we haven't felt that insecure since high school but this is just next level it's it's bachelor on steroids they're just so mean and i would love to get your take on this because last time we chatted we sort of had that meta level conversation about the influencer thing and like why are people on the show now what do they get out of it like when i watch it i'm trying

to understand how did this happen how do we get so many girls screaming at each other all the time and being awful to each other some typically i think just because they don't like each other which is a thing that happens to adults in the world but usually it doesn't turn into what this is devolved into but i want to know what you think is it because of age i want it because this is a very very young season and i don't think all the young what's her name madison's like 22 she's fine right like it's not everyone's not man like immaturity is not always tied to age. I'll just say that, but correct.

Undeniably very young. I keep bringing this up, but I can't help. But, and I know she's probably mad at me for reminding America every episode, but she, she is also like running fake accounts on her Instagram and deny the genuine and real.

Yeah. And again, like I, I appreciate, uh, I sympathize, I sympathize with her because I, but she is no more genuine and real than any of these other women. It's just, she's just showing in a different way. And she will, I will say to her credit is not mean and kind. And she seems to like have a good moral compass. I'll say that so the meanness i want to know do you think it's because of age do you think they just did a terrible job or maybe a deliberate job of casting these women or do you

think it has anything to do with the fact that perhaps many of them are here for a you know like because you know that it's rewarded on the show to cause drama i think it's i think it's probably if i had to guess a perfect storm yeah right i think the age it doesn't I think it's, I think it's probably, if I had to guess, a perfect storm. Yeah. Right? I think the age, it doesn't help that it's gotten younger.

Right? And it's, they've had 22 and 23 year olds before. It's just, So many. The median or mean, I don't know which one it is,

that has lowered. Right? Yeah. So the average age, it's just, it's gotten lower. Like if it was, if the average age was 25.2 years,

now the average age is probably 24. And that's a significant drop. I think with social media, more and more every season, it becomes harder and harder for anyone to come on with this truly genuine purpose. And it actually makes it, it makes you less genuine to pretend that you're not there for the additional ancillary benefits that come with open to being love. And the more they fake it and the more they pretend it's not there, the more insincere they are. And then I do think there's an element of not to shit on the pageant world or that part of the country,

but I don't think the pageant community, I think it has, it's can be rooted in competitiveness and cattiness and there's you've had all these seasons where these there's not a lot like these women know each other i didn't even realize this but sydney and hannah brown graduated in the same high school class uh hannah and from what i hear is friends with hannah godwin from last season like they're they're casting from this pretty select group, which is,

you know, I'm sure there's plenty of, plenty of documentaries and, and, and stuff out there about the pageant world. And they're, I'm sure they're lovely people, but there can be some nasty elements and competitiveness and cattiness.

And I think that's as well, bringing things to the fold. I just don't want to watch it. I, I, I think watching this week, there's still some entertaining moments and look, I'm not, I'm just obviously want to watch it i i i think watching this week there's still some entertaining moments and look i'm like i'm just obviously gonna watch it but um i i was struck by how much it reminded me of like another reality show like it doesn't feel like a bh1 yeah or like

um i don't know just something trashier if that makes sense and No, it has. And I don't know. I got to assume, you know, ABC and Warner Brothers are constantly having conversations as they always are about the direction of where they want the franchise to go. And, you know, I think, and I've said this before, I think it was smart from a business model standpoint to skew younger, bring in a new audience, especially you have to keep getting younger.

You got to attract a new audience. I you have to keep getting younger. You gotta attract a new audience. I'd be willing to bet that a significant portion of the people watching Bachelor today are a new audience and that's good because people do, they kind of burn out regardless. And so to keep it popular, I do think going forward, they're gonna wanna go back up a little bit. They're going to have to bring back the sincerity of the show.

I feel like in the NFL sometimes when you go from one coach to another, they always hire the opposite. If you've got the old traditional coach, the next one is like the young analytics, handsome-looking coach. You saw that with your Green Bay Packers going in a different direction. And I kind of feel like this show never recovered from rachel's season not getting great ratings in some way or not never recovered but i kind of what way do you think i feel like just they've ever since they've sort of started going younger and younger and leaning into the i don't

know i just kind of almost like they they had rachel they they broke down glass ceilings with Rachel, the ratings didn't translate and they almost panicked to just kind of going with what they think works. Yeah, I think they've seen like, okay, here's, I'm paradise. We've got some of these younger people. I don't know.

I have no idea why. I heard it's like, they called it the Demi effect where Demi was kind of like obnoxious last season and funny and like irreverent and said crazy stuff. So all the girls saw that. And so they're trying to be the next step. I mean,

I love demi and I think she's great and a good human, but even to, you know, not to take any way that can demi that, that Corinne was the first person to be like that. But the thing from, from the fact that she was considered maybe an early villain, but like truly a fan favorite

by the end of it all and one of the most popular, but she was not a traditional character. I only want to watch one Corinne. It was entertaining because she was around people who had a difference. I don't want to watch

six or seven of those people. That's why Demi was fun to watch. She was the only one. Yeah. And Demi and Corinne, those are who those people are. It comes naturally to both of them to be that way. When you try to be a certain way, it doesn't read as authentic. It reads as anything but like bitchy, mean, catty, all of the above.

Because especially Demi, she actually has a really kind heart. She's a really, even when she tweets or comments, she's very protective of the people in the show. And she's a very kind person. She's also clever, which is something that I think has been a little bit missing this season. So anyways, I'm still going to watch bit. So anyways, I, I,

I'm still going to watch. There's still things I, there's still women. I like, I want to throw that out there. I don't hate them all. I just hate a lot of them. Yeah.

I mean, I, I, I would agree. The only thing I'd say different is I don't hate any of them individually as humans. And also, uh,

but as a group, yes, I hate the group. That's, that's totally fair. Right? Like, and also I hate watching. But as a group, I hate the group. That's totally fair. Right? And also who knows how they are in real life. Yeah. But they do not bring out the best in each other. Yeah. I think it's always important with the show when we talk about it to make it clear. We're talking

about television characters. Exactly. Because we're only seeing a tiny fraction of them and I'm talking, I hate the portrayal of this person. So Victoria P., if you're listening, don't take any offense. Exactly. We're sorry. Woof.

So we kick off this episode. Where do we kick it off? Well, they're in the Andes Mountains. They're in Chile. They're in Chile. Peter tells everyone about the Andes Mountains. I always wanted to ask, because you would would know this since it's my rare opportunity do they give you like a list of four facts to recite about the like how does that go down notes going okay

and then you choose kind of what you find interesting to say to the yeah there's some talking points and some information to uh and sometimes you know like a lot of the all these destinations are based off of relationships they have with the local tourism boards, and so that's, and so, you know, Peter's in charge of delivering those notes, always letting you know

what hotel they're staying at and why it's perfect for falling in love, and then, you know, the tourism board will, you know, let you know why should people visit Chile?

Or Cleveland. Or Cleveland. So it starts off with, i think mckenna's crying as she just wants to do apparently and victoria f said something to her that i found very oh that's great which she was like if he liked you he would find a way to spend time with you which uh i coming through with the realism. Yeah. A little mean when she said it, but yes, I do appreciate every season where it's just like,

hey, he doesn't like me. Yeah, literally. At this point, do you think, okay, if you're in week six or whatever and you haven't gotten the one-on-one, do you know that or are you just,

because I think someone like Tammy knows he doesn't like her and she's just kind of there to stir. Well, i don't know i mean tammy not to fast forward was told peter right before he sent her home was i know this is meant to be you know like yeah i will say as a whole this group seems to be again i don't know if they're just good at playing the game or they're just convincing themselves everyone just believes uh that like they have a fighting shot where i think other seasons even the way it's aired you know like so and so's like yeah she's just waiting to go home yeah and kelly is the only one with any sense of reality you know know, like poise, perspective.

I think that woman, Natasha, also is just kind of there for the trip. I'm kind of getting that vibe. And uncoincidentally, those are like the two oldest women, right? Yeah, Natasha's 31 and Kelly's, what, 27, 28? Ancient, ancient. So anyways. Senior citizens. Hannah Ann gets the date.

Hannah Ann, yes, um i've decided so she's my front runner i think i think she's gonna win you think she's gonna win uh i think she's gonna win because um we saw a lot of hannah ann early on first she got the first impression rose did she not she did yes for a hot second we thought she was a villain yeah and then disappeared yes all of a sudden we didn't see a lot of henna and and that's what they like to do with the winter well there's been some examples of that there's been examples of that if the lead is really into one and they have a couple of options they like to have the the the lead hold off for fear of falling in love too soon. Interesting. And not always. I mean, Vanessa had a very early one-on-one with me.

So that's not always the case. But it makes me believe, and I think it has less to do with the timing of her date and more to do with the fact that we saw a lot of her and then she disappeared. And now I think they're ready to focus more on Hannah Ann and a lot of this relationship was kind of questioning if it was gonna work.

I don't know, that's just my guess. Yeah, I think that's fair. I think it's like her, Madison, Victoria, for the three seems most into to me. Kelly's 27 guys, just in case you're worried. Ancient, ancient. Yeah. But would they have set Hannah Ann up to be the champagne stealer

if they thought she was going to win this whole thing? Yeah. Well, first of all, they don't know. But don't they kind of know? No, it's literally 10 minutes in. Also, I think she got a pretty generous edit on like any human being with the two brain cells you know was not angry at her washing that yeah she got a pretty i also the winner isn't the most protected they're protected but sometimes they're not the most i mean who

could forget courtney yeah oh that's a good point. All right. I take it back. But yeah, to Amina's point, she wasn't really the bad person. No, and since then, she's gotten a very good at it. She's always outside the fray. And to her credit, she seems like she's- She seems to have zero interest in being involved. She's kept away from some of the drama. The worst thing that's happened her is saying finasco which is honestly whatever i've you have no room i have no room i i make up words all the

time also everyone's been writing in there um you keep saying to drink uh minimum instead of to drink maximum yeah you have to have at least two drinks no i'm just kidding very different season um it is a two drink maximum. Yeah, what happened to that with Kelsey? Yeah. Well, people act like a two drink maximum you can't get drunk off of if you weigh 105 pounds and haven't eaten all day.

Also, does that apply to this show? Because I understand paradise. My understanding, and I by no means read in on this, is that it's across the board. It's probably a good idea. Hannah Ann is not the most enthralling television. I will say that.

Yeah, she doesn't have to be. This was a rough- Wasn't it bad? He did question her age, which I thought was interesting because they've never shown him bringing that up with Madison, who's also- Literally her age. Yeah, same age. Same age. You know, there's a like- Literally her age. Yeah, same age. Same age. You know, there's a massive difference

between 22 and 23, 24. But, you know, she's obviously stunning. I don't really have, I mean, what do I know about her beyond that? I'll say this about Hannah Ann. It is a tough position to be questioned about something you have no control over. Right. Oh, she had never been in love. That was the other.

And I will say, if I'm going to try to give positive thoughts here about Hannah Ann, is that she, because I think she's going to win, so I want to make sure I'm not shitting on Peter's fiance. But no, in all seriousness, she at least was honest and she didn't try to mince words. She didn't try to oversell it. It was a little cheesy where she threw out this weird... The minnow thing. Yes.

Oh my God, I wrote that down. Okay, I want to talk about that. I wrote it down exactly. I don't want to be... Most people swim in the shallows. I don't want to be with the minnows. She had to like lined up and just try to figure out where she could fit it in.

You know what though? When I was watching that, then I was really, I was like, oh, this is like the pageanty thing. I don't know if she's even done pageants. I don't know if she has. But this is someone who clearly,

you know, is very, very careful about what she says. I'm trying to give this a generous interpretation and um you have to be around these people so you are you are nice um i i don't have to be as nice i hope she wins because god i would not want to watch this bachelorette season that would be really a rough watch for me she seems like a nice person though i will what do you mean by that the first or the second thing? The second part. You hope she wins because

it'd be a tough watch. Watching her talk, I was like, this is not interesting television to me. I remember Hannah Brown was like that in the beginning and then she kind of... But even... She wasn't like this where she was just kind of... She wasn't boring. She was just messed up.

Yeah, Hannah was a little hannah was messy she was discombobulated the whole time this would be very dull i i just feel that way strong oh in terms of like her potential to be the next yes that's what i mean yeah i have no interest this is gonna be a rough pick by the way from i don't think they have a pick here they got to go outside the pool yeah you got some ideas we can finish with that. Okay. I feel weird bringing this up, but she's been open about getting a boob job, Hannah Ann.

I just find that interesting. Good for her. Yeah, good for her. I mean, if you're going to do it, and I actually, you know what? That's great for her. The honesty is great. Yeah, that's true.

And I will say, I mean, she she's very safe i do think that's very uh a common theme for especially for that part of the country in terms of etiquette and properness and if she has any pageant experience which honestly it seems like that's what you'd like do in high school there you know like even like seem like it it's like a thing i don't i don't it seems almost weird when i was in high school i did academic decathlon right or like very different life like yeah so um but she there is i i actually believe when peter's like she's the goofiest one in the house i actually believe that he that's true she seems to have a playful side they've shown a little bit i actually quite liked her snarkiness early in the season she had some she had some fire to her and some bite. I can tell by watching her interact with the women

that they like her. That's always something I look for. The other thing is, and this is something I've learned from watching the show for a long time, it's not about who's right for me, it's about who's right for Peter. Yeah.

She seems like a good match for Peter. Yeah. Who also, I mean, what I just said about her and, you know, like the, you know, like the, you know, I'm- Like a Lauren Ari situation.

Yeah. Like, they should have been together all along, right? They're great together. I think there's, there's a mashup, but,

you know, it was not riveting. That's all I'll say. It wasn't riveting. I also, I got it, like this episode, why is everyone leaving

in the middle of a date? Just get up, leave. leave oh he got up and walked out walked out and then hannah and hannah ann comes in crying peter's like hey what's up what's wrong she's like you left me yeah and i don't know if there was awkward uh i mean he clearly excused himself i don't know if he was thinking or maybe he went to the bathroom and did like a 9 a.m and they just like deliberately left her i don't know what's going on but now i think about it kind of reminds me of the when ari left his date with lauren i think perhaps the same frustration there which is like lauren he really wanted it to be her and i think maybe peter is having the same experience and then

it stressed him out that it wasn't going perfectly. I mean, like, listen, there's a physical attraction there. She is a total babe. She is younger. If Peter really likes her and he's hoping, there is an element of The Bachelor of you have, let's be honest, there's an immediate physical attraction. You don't know. There's obviously physical chemistry.

And then you hope that person has the other qualities that you're looking for because you have that initial attraction you're not basing your decision off a ton of information so you're just like hoping to get what you hope right and so i can see that there with peter um all right so hannah hannah ann and peter he finally gives the rose uh because she cries because she cries well we're we're of the belief until we have peter on and find out what his love language actually is that his love language is tears well i was watching not this episode of the previous one with my husband he said peter's like lenny who's our dog like if lenny was the bachelor which is basically anyone who brings him food would get a rose right and he's like he's so easy to manipulate and, which is basically anyone who brings him food would get a rose, right? And he's like, he's so easy to manipulate,

which is not very nice, but I think- Peter's a sweet guy. But his biggest fault is he is too earnest. It's like, we want you to believe in the process. You are the bachelor. You can't be the bachelor without giving this structure its fair shot. But he's almost bought in too much.

Interesting. He's fully drinking the Kool-Aid where he's all these women. He's like, I believe in this. This is serious. I need you to as well. And it all comes from a place of sincerity. But to that point, he's become almost, he's confused himself. I feel like Kelly was trying to get him outside of that a little bit to be like,

hey, let's have a normal conversation where we talk about how weird this is and whatever. And he just was not. His reaction to Kelly seemed off to me where I would have been very into that. Right. Oh, cool. Let's talk. Oh, my God. Yes.

Like I it does like that's where Peter and I are definitely different where he doesn't want to acknowledge this isn't normal. Yeah. Where it was. I mean, I think my my opening speech to the women was't want to acknowledge this isn't normal. Yeah. Where it was, I mean, I think my opening speech to the women was, let's not pretend

this isn't super fucking weird. But within that, You said that. Oh, yeah. I mean, they actually even aired that too. I was really glad that they did. I said something like,

this is what it is, but within this, we can still make it work. But let's not pretend this is a very unrealistic thing. Wow. So, but let's not pretend this is a very unrealistic thing um so but peter's peter's fully in uh and and kelly's is running out of time because she's too realistic about it and peter uh and again peter is earnest he's afraid of it's not working out and that is always i think every lead handles it differently it's like they're just afraid you

know you're driven peter wants this to work and that is sincere and this is how he's reacting I think every lead handles it differently it's like they're just afraid you know peer driven yeah Peter wants this to work and that is sincere and this is how he's reacting do you think she likes him we chatted about this

I know this is not although she does she was very funny I thought in the telenovela I know and the character is the grandma she was cracking me up

she was great she was hilarious they were trying to be like she's the old one of the group when she said incest is best I actually laughed it was a rare ray of sunshine in this episode uh i think she is realizing that she is so out of this is not her element she she realized that

she's she can't do this and i think she's accepted that she's not going to win solely based off of that. You know, like I think maybe her and Peter in the real world actually probably had a real shot because there clearly was real chemistry between those two, but. Yeah. There was a little more chemistry.

Uh oh. Um, but, uh, yeah, I think she's slowly getting over it. Yeah. She's just kind of down for the ride now which i feel like she kept trying to say like yeah it's cool i'm just like i mean no she literally

said yeah i'm actually gonna be i'm just gonna have fun yeah which i really appreciate it but i don't think i think she i had experiences like this in when i was younger where i would maybe like date a guy kind of briefly and then you know there's like an attraction or whatever and you realize oh like we have nothing we got nothing here yeah this is just i think that's where kelly probably is um but she's there and she is trying in her way and again that's just what i've always resented the fact that like sometimes the show will punish the people who try to act like it's not normal um they've gone they've done a better job of that but you know again peter is the earnest bachelor and he's kind of dictated the

theme and the theme is you need to act like this is normal yeah um and she's got no shot about for it right no and we don't want for the same reason we don't want no we don't because she it would be she'd be too yeah she you need wouldn't buy in at all you need someone to buy it and go with it maybe not as much as peter but she she is low energy um and that's fine and great in life and i really think low energy is attractive trait but i don't know if that makes a great bachelorette yeah it's probably fair yeah she's gonna be like telling the story of this one time she went on this bachelorette show like i feel like you know she's gonna have like a normal husband at some point um yeah i don't i don't, I don't think she has any shot.

I don't think she would make a great bachelorette, and that is in no way a criticism of Kelly. I love it. That's fair. So yeah, we get to the Telemundo group date, which great date. Great date. A lot of fun.

Super fun. So wrapping up the Influencer Bootcamp Tour, we've done the runway show we've done the photo shoot yeah we've now full in case they want to maybe do some acting that's a great point we're getting lessons there loved it again i think it's great i on it all in all fairness i think that i think it's fun that the show is doing this i think they can do this without getting the I don't think that's why the show I don't think that's why this season has become

no what it is that stuff's fine that they're leaning into the types of group dates that they're having this was one of my favorite group dates

oh I loved it it was a lot of fun I thought it was great they all bought into it I thought Kelly we talked about Kelly was hilarious so funny

Peter seemed to really enjoy it I'm also I gotta say props to Peter I can't speak any other language I gotta say, props to Peter. I can't speak any other language. I think it's hot that Peter speaks Spanish as well as he does.

Is it that well? He speaks it okay. Yeah, it's like beginner. I mean, as someone who doesn't speak, someone who barely speaks English. Yeah. I think it's cool that he can talk. Yeah, I think it's cool that he's proud of his heritage. Yeah. I mean, I think it's cool that he can talk. Yeah, I think it's cool that he's proud of his heritage. Yeah.

And seems to bring it up. Listen, I think it's neat. I like that they're doing it. It was a fun date. I enjoyed it. Nobody was stupid or annoying about being like a... That really endeared me to Kelly, how chill she was about looking like that. Because we've seen many examples of dates in the past

where women have lost their minds about not getting to be the sexy character and she was super chill and funny about it um but the rest of them seem pretty cool with there was no drama associated with the date yeah what's so funny about that watching except he his opening line was let's see how much drama we can make oh i was like there's already so much i mean it's like america needed it you know we all as a fan base and the women like we all just needed to have fun and everyone just needed to chill out be like oh my god thank you short-lived but short-lived because then we go to the cocktail party and tammy is tammy's is on one at this point she i think she's spiraling yeah i think i think tammy is the classic probably super chill and fun think she's spiraling. I think Tammy is the classic,

probably super chill and fun in real life. We saw that at the beginning of the show, down girl, who most of the dramas on this show, or I think generally, are just people not liking each other. They're not actually like about lies or it's like you're in a situation,

you have to live with someone and they're annoying. All it is is the fear of being the target yes and as long as you're not the target you you're happy and if you smell blood you attack it for it for certain kinds of people and i think she's around it went from it was kelsey and now it's mckenna and like look she seems annoying i'm just gonna say mckenna, she seems annoying. I'm just going to say McKenna. She seems like a very challenging human being to be around. Some of the speeches, I really hope you wrote down some of the stuff she said in this episode. In Tammy's defense, I think that was all rehearsed.

Yes. Oh, I found my voice and I learned to love my... And the shit she said at the end i hope you wrote that i was crying i am certain that she was like i can do that again do you guys need me to do that again did you get that i can do this again did i sound like a strong woman because like i want to make sure that i sounded strong did my strength come through i really learned to love myself i'm obsessed with myself so anyways that said and i will never accept less than what she did tammy was entirely in the wrong i want to be clear like i'm not siding with her but i i'm

trying to put myself in her headspace and think okay i'm a normal person with like you know a normal life i'm around this like these very deeply annoying human being i think she just snapped she reminded me of mugatu from zoolander when he's like am i taking crazy being i think she just snapped she reminded me of mugatu from zoolander when he's like am i taking crazy pills i think that's her she's just like what is happening this is like the sorority from hell that i never signed up for and she just is spiraling and she's she then becomes that which she loves like which is a crazy person. A petty. Yeah, terrible. And you know, like obviously it's not good. She packed her bags, Peter. And in McKenna's defense,

it's very efficient to pack your bags at any moment because the last thing you want to do is get your ass sent home and then have to pack. Yeah.

Not a fun experience. I thought, I want to get your opinion on this. I thought it was interesting she kept mentioning like blonde girls. Like it seems almost like she mentioned it about McKenna and she mentioned about Kelsey when she was, and kept mentioning like blonde girls like it seems almost like she mentioned it

about mckenna and she mentioned about kelsey when she was and i'm like because i felt that way too of like kind of hating the not hating them but like you get jealous you know they always get the attention and you've seen the show i mean you like her yes i'm sure she's seen the show she knows how this script plays out yeah i mean is this an uphill battle for tammy yes i i am i'm asian like i i mean what's it katherine's the farthest obviously any asian person's ever made it but um kayla i guess was top three um yeah she knows the score right so i think she probably was just kind of articulating i mean also she has no one to talk to about that probably yeah i don't know i can't speak maybe she did

at some point um that stuff heats up that we never get to see those conversations on the show which i think is a mistake i think it would be really useful and interesting but i think that it just crept up to the surface yeah i know i'm probably sound overly sympathetic to her because again she lost her mind uh and it it uh topped off with her saying oh boy my opinion can be true to me which is surprisingly both incredibly self-aware and at the same time delusional. And also not even the worst iteration of that kind of thinking this season. Oh, because my truth is... Everyone's saying my truth.

Can we put a ban on the phrase my truth? You're just lying. You're just lying. Well, that probably... But she said it so like... She was thinking about it as she's saying well my opinion can i to her in her to her defense it looked like as she said it she realized how dumb it sounded but she just went with it i think she's just like having a

nervous breakdown i think she's and then mckenna uh ran to peter to tell him and I wrote down, looks like she's running to dad. That was how I felt watching her. Like, dad, she's being mean to me. I know I sound like I'm being really mean to her. I'm sorry. That's not how she sounded. But the whole thing, I was just like,

I don't want to watch this. I don't want to watch this. And then the Victoria P thing happened. Victoria, yeah. So then, yeah, Victoria P, if you want to sit on my, don't ask to watch this. And then the Victoria P thing happened. Victoria. Yeah. So then, yeah, Victoria P, if you want to sit on my, don't ask to sit on your lap.

You're immediately going home. Is that true? As a, as a guy. Yeah. If you, it can happen organically. If you sit on my lap,

like a child, as Victoria P did, that's not hot. It looked awkward. It looked awkward. Yeah. There's a lot of childlike behavior to cut to what I just said. There's a lot of these interactions.

There's a subtlety there, but she sat on him like a child. And Peter was clearly like, sure. Yeah. What's up? Just want to check in, make sure we're still in love. Yeah, I don't know. About that. About that.

Yeah, there's always that classic i need to confront the the bachelor bachelorette and and reset and that's always the optimal time to say actually we need to go home did you think that was gonna happen um i mean really into her definitely seemed into her uh i think i think it was pretty clear to peter when the alaya stuff was going down that she something was was full of shit and that so that's what i want because i wasn't sure i was watching this and i was thinking is she actually brought up alaya too which was stupid but when i was watching that i was like is does he was he turned off by all that or is he just not that into her uh i think he was turned off by that situation because if you know

not too long like i liked it when he was like i i heard i'm sitting next to her i heard what she's saying like truly confused and i think it's a you know my guess is she was never his top three or four. Yeah. Or more specifically she was never in his top two and she might have been like right around that three, four, five range and that happened

and other people didn't lie to him. Yeah, ironically. I think Peter really values trust and you can tell he's afraid of this not working out again. And she seemed to be caught in what seemed like a lie, right?

Yeah. You couldn't tell if he was processing that when it happened. Yeah, and he probably laughed and probably thought about it and was like, I don't want to be by this. I mean, wait a minute. I don't want to be by this. I mean,

it's insane. Like there's no way anyone could watch that and not walk away thinking this woman is lying. So I guess it stands that he, at some point it registered with him. You know, I thought her exit was fine. She handled herself fine.

She was a little frustrated and mad but really she like cursed it when she left like you're careful she's yeah that's pretty common it is the classic move of hey before i go you're in trouble yeah bye bye before i know just so you know you're fucked yeah i did that to him that's a pretty yes someone else did it oh that's like that's a pretty go-to move they don't always say what it is no it's always like ominous i'm worried for you this is why i'm so different from people on the show because i'd be like i wrote down a like very detailed list of everything you need to know about all these women here you go i would never be vague this is why i always get so angry when they get an argument like hey i know i'm going but just you know i had this it's collated i i

always get so frustrated watching them in arguments because they're so bad at arguing always yeah right and i would be so specific i'd be like like the whole live thing when um a layout clearly in the right in this situation also know, probably a difficult person in some ways. Like, I'm like, you have the case, woman. You have the receipt. Yeah. All you have to do is just keep calmly laying them out. And it never happens that way.

The problem with Alea is like, while she was in the right, there's probably a reason why she got all the negative attention. Not that it was deserved yes um most that's 90 of the time it's just someone's annoying yeah uh so vp goes home um and then we well then we're back we're victoria f second one-on-one and i gotta say i don't remember the last time someone's got a second one-on-one. And I gotta say, I don't remember the last time someone's got a second one-on-one

when so many people still remaining in the house haven't even had one. Did Lauren beat? No, I feel like there's one. I'm sure it's happened before. It's pretty unusual. But it's pretty unusual. Usually that usually coincides with this like,

okay, let's just have a two-on-one and send them both home kind of thing um because it's it's so obvious i don't know if you've picked up on this but peter's not very good at managing the situation and managing the feelings of many people at the same time uh no i think i would say this particular i mean but in fairness to peter his he has one job other than to find love and that is to allow drama to flourish and he's doing a fantastic job about that his job is not to allow it to flourish his job is to not necessarily stop it in fact he's doing an incredible job of actually adding to it by like just being so honest with all the women in front of them. He is an agent of chaos. Yes, he 100% is. He like is Gossip Girl.

Yeah, it's good. It's not Peter. XOXO Gossip. He's killing it. She, like the thing with the Kelsey and the rope. Was that this episode? That was last week. The Kelsey giving her the rope.

Like, was that his idea? That was last week. I don't know. I'm like, how can you be doing this that uh sometimes i'm just going to say and i have no idea but sometimes the bachelor has to take one for the team so right well he's taking them over and over and over and and the thing where he constantly does where a woman will go to him and be like nick says this and he's like yeah i'm immediately gonna go to her like as a journalist i'm like don't tell him anything i get off the record agreement first i'll say this

about peter whether he it's his idea to give these girls the roses or it's being suggested to him and he's just being a willing participant he sells the shit out of it because even when he gave kelsey that rose he's like i don't care i want you to have this you go back right now and show him that rose you know like it's just if i'm the story he's a good actor yeah he's like i gave you this rose and you need to accept it because i need to know that you love me you're gonna do yourself a favor if you start crying so so he's not only suggestible he's's convincing. Oh, he's very convincing. Yeah, the Victoria F date was cool. That looked fun.

They get the horses and the Chilean dinner. What do you think of her and him? You know, we don't know what America is going to say because we're recording this before the episode. She seems to be like, she's always potentially going to lose it and like yeah i like self-awareness so like does she look a little sloppy when she walks off and goes to the bathroom i think they did her a favor by like air airing her talking to a producer you don't see the conversation and just being like i don't know why i do this i'm like just

acknowledging that she is having a hard time with this atmosphere and it seemed to be it controlled chaos interesting yeah i i hope go off no i mean i find her kind of exhausting to watch like she does always seem to be on the precipice of freaking out but i recognize that i'm seeing 10 of her existence on this show interactions with them and we're probably seeing the 10 where she's like stop really stop yeah no it's like it's a lot of the stop s-t-a-h-b oh and but again that's a bit much don't get me wrong i'm not saying but i know that's not obviously her entire identity. I'm just trying to give the benefit of the doubt.

Even with Hannah Ann, in a season full of a lot of unattractive behavior, I at least appreciate that she is trying to be... I thought she was a little over the top of Analeah on the Chase Rice stuff, though. She was like, that was my story. She was mad at her for telling people oh yeah i know that that was exacerbated by like the power dynamic of the situation like getting to be on the internet and

stuff but i it wasn't that big of a deal i think it's pretty clear victoria f has a bite yeah like she she's got a she you don't want to get her crossfire. He's super into her, by the way. Yeah. It's like, she's a, she's hot. She's hot. But I think, I don't know. I think he likes, he, it's funny. You think Hannah's going to win.

I don't know who's going to win. He seems more into Victoria than he is into Hannah to me based on just his behavior around her. Uh, I will agree based on what we're seeing now that's true but i guess i'm you know i see this like like a matrix yeah you know where the edit i don't not so much the edit but yeah i mean you're seeing i yeah i i don't i think you're seeing you're seeing too much complication with their relationship interesting this early like if this was uh if this was towards the end if this was like going on during hometowns or fantasy suite week then i would be like oh she might win because they're introducing some conflict got it yeah It's way too early.

Interesting. And while I'm defending Victoria F and leaving the table, even though it looks a little sloppy, that like, Peter needs to feel confident in his decision and she is struggling too much with this. Hannah Ann is giving him,

she's basically like the perfect, like she was drawn up to please him she's you know yeah and that's i don't find that compelling you know watching someone who just seems everything they're doing is designed to please another you know like a man or whatever but um she's very uncomplicated for him yeah and i think uh yes i think he's attracted to victoria f i think he you know there's an element of chase there right we don't know what kind of woman he likes do you feel like you know though a crier a crier well then in the real world i don't know yeah i mean if if does he does he want to fix someone does he want to be taken care of i mean it's unclear amongst these

women what he prefers other than brunettes um i mean and i think he you know he's he wants to feel that love and i think it's uh but we're gonna find out uh next week because we're gonna have peter pick take a bunch of love tests oh wow so you're gonna get it we're gonna try to we're gonna try to that's gonna be our goal when we have peter on is to find out what are peter's love languages what's his personality who is he really attracted to so that we can act accurately figure out that sounds great because i am i'm really enjoying the fact that i all all these guesses are sincerely spoiler free and i truly unspoiled no one knows i i have no idea only

robert mills he was on he knew i really don't wait no one knows has I have no idea. Only Robert Mills. He was on. He knew. I really don't know. Wait, no one knows? Has the season not been spoiled? Not been spoiled? I truly don't know. Wait, really? Yeah, it's not been spoiled. It's the first time in a long time.

I had no idea. So I avoid spoilers every year. And I'm having, it's hard for me to, like I try to and then someone will just like tell me. Yeah, but this season, no one knows?

So I don't really know. Wow. I have no idea. Do you agree with my top three? Who is your top three? Hannah and, am I leaving anyone? I think it was Hannah and Victoria

and Madison. My top two are Hannah and Madison. Yeah, that is young. I can see Victoria F. I think there's a physical attraction there. Kelsey, I can't figure out because she went from

crazy to like after Kelsey's one-on-one, I'm like, I think she's going to win. Nah. Just after that date. I just thought she really was She had a great, she acquitted herself well on that date. Same like, the same with like the Hannah Ann. Like I was willing to kind of

like, okay, early shenanigans don't really dictate too much right right they kind of just use what they have and then she had such a strong one-on-one yeah that i was i just thought there's no like okay this is who kelsey is and so i was thrown off by by kelsey so i don't think kelsey has what it takes to go to the end she's gonna going to be great in paradise. She'll be wonderful on the beach. She might be a real star. Yeah. Who else? There's really no one else.

I guess. Yeah, I know. I guess it has to. Because I would have maybe said Victoria Paul before. Yeah. She's not his type, though. I mean, I think we're starting to get a physical type emerging a little bit as well and what is that um brunettes but also like they all big eyes

i don't know that kind of look i don't know just like a look madison just seems really young to me not in terms of maturity but in terms of like how she kind of presents yeah she just seems like a college girl to me. And that's not an insult. She's 22. She should seem like a college girl. A little bit I know about like, you know,

for the community. Yeah. I mean, the basketball, she's literally grown up in a bubble. Yeah. She's the star of her town. She's always been the shining star.

Very religious, tight knit community, probably sheltered. Listen to her Instagram bio. Love greatly. Be a voice for the voiceless and always stand up for what you believe in. I'm 100% convinced she's purchased several thousand followers.

That's a lot of followers. That's a lot more than anyone else, right? She has so much more than everyone else. It seems. And with the combination of these fan accounts that she has, she seems way too aware of her social profile. She's not your fave. Again, I give her the benefit of the doubt

because she's probably a really sweet, nice person. I liked her during the sports date it's i like it when her bro side comes out from everything i'm hearing she seems way too aware of her social profile though her number of followers uh she's got caught commenting right it's so easy to buy followers and quite technically if you're going to buy followers a really smart time for her to do it when she's growing this is This is great. Look at that. That was great. How do you not like Tammy? Like when you see something like that, sorry for those who are

she's doing the pose in the Cosmo thing where she's bathing suit date. Yeah, that's great. I mean, is there a star this season? Is there like a girl, like a breakout? No, there's not. Yeah. That's the thing. I i mean do we really even need

to cover the mckenna tammy two-on-one let me see if i anything interesting about it on one i just wrote down funny lines from mckenna you made me found my she did say found i wrote it down verbatim i'm sorry that no please you made me found my damn voice. Rehearsed. She got hit on the hashtags, which I thought was funny. I, as a sports fan, laughed every time Tammy said, trust the process. I wrote that down a few times. Don't think, I don't, well. Oh, someone, I think it was Tammy said, I'm not the villain of the season, which I always enjoy when, you know, kind of break that meta. Yeah.

Um, I mean, I don't know. They're both, it's like, you're neither. You're going to win. You both probably know that.

I don't know if McKenna is actually, she was kind of delusional about it, but, um, I don't think, uh, Tammy will ever post a better photo on her Instagram. It's so good.

I'm madly in love with myself is what McKenna said after being cut. Gross. Were you surprised that Sydney was cut? Oh yeah. That was crazy. Thank you for reminding me. Yeah. Thank you.

That was just like, that was insane. Out of the blue. I think that's the only, like when we have Peter on, I want to have a conversation more about Peter. I hope he tells us. I don't like asking,

when I have an opportunity to interview like the bachelor, the bachelorette, I don't like asking uh when i have an opportunity to interview like the bachelor the bachelorette i don't like asking them questions i'm really not able to get a totally honest answer from but i will i will want to find out why i cut sydney it was just weird again at that point someone who's had a one-on-one like a victoria paul there was a um they allow there to be a conversation to explain why they're getting sent home even if there's not much information shared like victoria paul like ultimately peter didn't really say anything other than like i'm not really feeling it but yeah there was a breakup sydney goes from best kisser in the house can't believe you said that uh also great like just again honest moment yes peter stop um to just like bye yeah and she kind of just took it too and left yeah i thought

she put up a little bit of a fight yeah all the way around was super weird and then no disrespect to natasha how is she still there? She feels like the producer. But now we're in top 10. Yeah, but like the producer pet of the someone who's willing to commentate and just be the narrator of the season. You'll buy yourself a couple of weeks, but we're in top six now. Top six, yeah. Like you don't get the top.

She's in top six without a one-on-one. I think she gets the next one. I think the preview. She has to. It looks like she's the six now. Top six, yeah. Like you don't get the top, she's at top six without a one-on-one. I think she gets the next one. I think the preview. She has to. It looks like she's the next one. And she's going to absolutely get sent home on that one-on-one. I know.

I'm interested in seeing her more though because she's someone who's kind of intrigued me. Oh, she seems like a cool person. I'm not, we're not criticizing. No, but yeah, the Sydney, I think, yeah, I mean, he had also incredible, he was like, they were going on. Right?

Yeah. If there's things going on with him and Natasha, we haven't been shown. And we've seen a bunch of him and Sydney. And then he sent Sydney home like it was Natasha. He must have just not liked her. Maybe he could tell she was mean. No, I don't think so. I think he just didn't like her in a boring way like i think they went on a one-on-one and she you know told him her story um and a lot of vocal fry

that does get she talks really slowly um i think he thought she was really hot and wanted to make out a lot she is very hot and i think you probably just didn't like her and honestly didn't seem like she liked him that much based on the also was this like peace yeah she was i don't know it was bizarrely way too comfortable yeah but i remember being like huh what's going on i don't her purpose on the show she kind of ran like okay the drama's over all of my targets yeah burned out fast i i wonder if um maybe next week will be more drama free but we see a little clip of of kelly kind of talking shit about victoria f oh yeah there seems to be something so i mean there's definitely going to be drama but i i yeah maybe they will start focusing more on love i don't know we also didn't talk

about zaddy harrison with his mustache you know i like that chris seems to be uh inserting himself more in the past few seasons i like that he's doing that but yeah i thought he'd be great you know he seems to be hanging out with the the a little bit more. Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic job, Chris. Yeah, not too... He's kind of coasting right now. Before we let go, we know we talked about this a little bit. Any Bachelorette favorites? Oh.

I don't think they have any... You don't think there's anyone on this season? I mean, all right. So if we... Hannah Brown was unique in the fact she wasn't top four yeah so that was an outlier there um so it's certainly not impossible uh if we if we've we've guessed our top three um any of them can't be victoria. can go on and then you can go on again. I don't, listen, Victoria F.

I don't think, again, we'll find out, hopefully, Victoria F. will get a chance to speak and we all hope that it was a bad mistake on her part, but I don't think based off of that alone, whether she's innocent or not,

that they'll be able to have her be the Bachelorette after that, right? Yeah. Yeah. I don't think she's like a fan favorite either. Separate from that. I'm not really getting that vibe. Hannah Brown wasn't a fan favorite. That's true.

That's a good point. I don't think Madison and Hannah and, to your point, are interesting enough. Yeah. Look at the history of the Bachelorette. They pick their Bachelorettes and Bachelorettes very different. But Madison, she has all those basketball puns. They could do basketball themed everything.

Oh, no, I don't think. I would have thought Victoria P was a contender. Oh, for sure. Before the edit turned on her. Yeah, she certainly had the story. And if she would have been far gone farther uh i think if i had to pick from this group i would probably say victoria f if i had to pick from this group yeah i don't i think they're gonna strongly consider going

outside this season i mean so prior first girl god marissa she'd be great. Marissa. I don't. Who was the last Bachelor? It was, was it Ari? No. No, Colton. Colton. So anyone from Colton's season, like Ataysha, maybe? Demi? I think that she picked Demi.

They won't. I think. I mean, they'll probably pick Hannah again. You think they will? I think there's, I think, I think Hannah Brown's the odds-on favorite as we stand today. Wow. You think she'd do it? Yeah.

Yeah. I don't. I think she should strongly consider not doing it. Right, yeah. There's only one way to go when you're at the top. Who else was on Colton? I know I mentioned Tisha. Oh, yeah, Kalen and Diener.

Yeah, it's not going to be Kalen. Who else? Why not Demi? I think that'd be leaning into the influencer thing too hard. I think... Demi? I think you have... Compared to who?

You have to sell America on the idea that this is a person who really wants to be married that's what I and I as much as I like I think I love her very clear

I love her I think she's very funny I like her a thousand times better than all these women you don't buy I would not buy that she wants to get married okay fair

and I think that's something probably a lot of people fair and that's fine which is yeah I don't want to get married.

Like half these women should probably not get married. Okay? I'm trying to think Colton season. I don't think there's any other. Katie who just, you know,

she broke up with. Katie. Oh yeah. Bukowski. Katie. Lovely person, but no. Tayshia,

Kaylin. Oh yeah, Tayshia. He said no to Tayshia, Kaylin. Oh yeah, Tayshia. He said no to Tayshia. I don't, I mean, thinking objectively,

why Tayshia over, I guess anyone else? People like her, that's all. People are like, she's nice and not offensive and she's beautiful, but I don't, there's not a compelling storyline there.

I mean, if I'm mean if I'm if I'm casting it I pick Hannah over all the people from a television perspective

Hannah Brown season like Hannah Brown or Tayshia well I mean America wants to see Hannah Brown get her love story

correct there's a great deal of investment already okay so we got the whole the whole gang up. You know, Cassie and Colton could always break up.

They've outlasted... What about Elise? Who? Elise. Elise! I mean, yeah, she's a fine person. But again, if you're pause but if hannah brown's the barometer now we're just getting into like do you think she could do it kind of conversation but like

if we're actually thinking who they could pick yeah hannah elise versus hannah brown who i love elise we're not talking about if we like them as people. No, I know, I know, I know. I personally would love to watch a season with just someone who was born before a certain year. I would like to see them get older too. Yeah, but I think you're right. I think Hannah, from a television perspective, does make the most sense. I wouldn't be surprised but god you know what

i really miss how she would stand up for herself yeah watching this season like there's so many these women are just running all over him and he just he just bends like i just want everyone wants to be like you know what i'm the motherfucking bachelor and I don't like her I know I know and he probably I want that so bad yeah but even when I was the bachelor I got criticism for nope you're going home nope you're going home

I was told by like the America at times that like I seemed like I wasn't like willing to give this a shot he's way too far I get that but and i've said this on every recap is that the bachelor can't do what hannah did they would just be considered a dick but there's a somewhere in the middle he's suffering from a head injury okay that's true i mean there's a certain point like he is letting we talked about how much these women are bullying each other

they're bullying him totally i don't like watching that they smell blood and they're absolutely nightmare gaslighting him and make him feel bad they smell blood and they're absolutely gaslighting him and make him feel bad for his decisions. They're gaslighting the shit out of him. Totally. It's hard to watch. I pity him. The only person Peter gaslit is Kelly. It made no sense, but hey. Yeah, I don't know if that was intentional.

I think he was just like out of sorts. Yeah. Our poor, beautiful baby boy. Alright, well we've kept you long enough this has been a lot of fun you're a pro this is uh i think people are really going to enjoy this so uh thanks thanks for coming on it's always a pleasure um you'll have to come back for sure uh i know the people will love it so now that i know it's unspoiled i had no idea and i am that is that adds like i'm really enjoying i really hope don't, I don't find out because it's, I have no idea.

Don't tell me. I don't know. Don't ruin it for me. You know, as much as I do. Well, guys, thanks for listening. Thanks for sticking around this week. We did four episodes. It's been exhausting.

I hope. Wow. We'll see you on Monday. Sounded like a threat.