The Viall Files - E909 Ask Nick - I'm Dating A Married Man

Episode Date: March 31, 2025

Welcome back to another episode of The Viall Files: Ask Nick Edition!  Our first caller is wondering if she should continue to date a married man. Our second caller is debating breaking up with the man she wants to marry. And, our third caller is struggling to figure out how to date as a 24 year old that’s never been in a relationship.  “Sometimes saying the right thing is the wrong thing."   Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff every Monday starting October 21st! Available wherever you get your podcasts and YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 https://open.spotify.com/show/4NWA8LBk15l2u5tNQqDcOO?si=c03a23d537f94735   Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: https://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice, send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line!  To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Bombas - Bombas is going international! Enjoy worldwide shipping to over two hundred countries. Head over to https://bombas.com/viall and use code viall for twenty percent off your first purchase. Caraway - We did the math and there is no better time to make the healthy swap to Caraway. Our favorite cookware set will save you $150 versus buying the items individually. Plus, if you visit https://carawayhome.com/viall10 you can take an additional 10% off your next purchase.  Helix Sleep - Go to https://helixsleep.com/viall for the Sleep Awareness Month Flash Sale to get 25% Off Sitewide Smalls - Give your cat the food they deserve. Head to https://smalls.com and use promo code VIALL at checkout for 50% off your first order PLUS free shipping! goPure - For a limited time, our listeners get 25% off goPure with code VIALL at checkout. Just head to https://gopurebeauty.com/VIALL, use code VIALL, and you’re all set. True Classic - Level up your style with clothes that actually fit right. Just go to our exclusive link at https://trueclassic.com/VIALL to save. Timestamps: (00:00) - Intro (00:13) - Caller One (38:39) - Caller Two (01:25:59) - Caller Three Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @justinkaphillips @dereklanerussell

How's it going? Good. My name is Taylor. I am 37. And my question is, should I date a married man? How married is this man? Not very. Okay. Are you separated? They are separated. Okay. They've been separated for about two years. You're not a secret? No. Well, no. I just, it's very new so I don't know that necessarily that I am known either. So what is what is your understanding of the dynamic that you

have? My understanding is simply they, I will have to dig deeper, but currently when they separated, she decided to date women. So she is in a relationship with a woman. Okay. And they, and he's, they've like, they don't live together or anything.

He hasn't lived with her for like two years. Okay. But they do have, but they're not divorced. And he says it's for tax reasons. And then they also have like a house that they've bought together, like another house that they bought as a couple with another couple.

So there's some entanglements there. He really likes his contracts with people. Gotcha. How long have you been hanging out with this guy? Three weeks. Oh, yeah. So it's pretty new. It's pretty new.

But I do like him a lot. You like him a lot. Okay. So how many dates have you been out with this guy? Probably like five now, five or six. Okay. All right. I'm curious, when do the alarm bells start going off in your head where something felt

a little off, if at all? I'd say like the alarm bells are probably more along the lines in maybe like lifestyle stuff as well as age. So it's not necessarily fully like the married stuff though I could that that would be more of a problem. I feel like down the line if they don't get a divorce or how long that takes or what that looks like. But it's more that I don't know him that well. He owns the bar and he co-owns a bar. So he obviously kind of is in that lifestyle more or less. So I would say like sometimes just, I don't know what that's gonna look like

with drinking and stuff. But- Is that an issue for you? Depends, it's an issue for him. Do you have any reason to think it is other than the fact that he owns and operates a bar? I mean, he's definitely drank every time we hung out, but he's never been drunk.

Okay, but that- So he might just be like, you know, a drinker. Okay. But over time. Are you a drinker? Not so much now. I kind of slowed my roll a lot on that, but I will say that's because it affects my body a lot.

Okay. And naturally. But like when you're hanging out with him, is he having a drink because he's having it, you know, you're at a restaurant and he has a drink with dinner, or is he just like kind of always drinking? I feel like so, well, we're pretty much all, if we're out, we're out at an adult

place, so, and every time we do that, he'll have a drink or drink, you know, he'll, but he just drinks beer, but it's just, I feel like it's just steady. And so I do wonder how steady it is on a regular basis. Just out of curiosity, you know, five dates in three weeks is a, like that pace, are you used to that pace? Is this new for you? Like, I'm curious. I just got out of like, well, not just about last summer, I got out of a five and a half year relationship. So it's been like a long time since I really dated. And I do feel like the pace is nice in the sense that,

it's not like a ton, but it's been a significant amount. I've spent the night at his place a couple times, but we haven't had sex yet. You haven't had sex yet? No. Okay, and is this the first time, is this the guy you've liked the most since your breakup? Yes.

Okay. I mean, like, you know, again, it's relatively new, right? And I guess I'm hearing from you a little bit of just like anxiousness and fear, or maybe overthinking and breaking down situations. You know, it's like he owns a bar, what does that mean? I've seen him drink, you know, pretty regularly, what does that mean?

But we've also kind of been out when I've seen him, you know, like the married part, you know, there's two separate things I think to be mindful of. One, you have to be mindful of the fact not to kind of overthink and overanalyze, and you're just gonna have to let, you know, if you like this guy, right, you're gonna have to maybe let it play out, right?

It's only been three weeks, you've only had five dates. Five dates in three weeks is, you know, it's a lot. You know, it's not like crazy or anything like that, but in a good way, it's a lot. You're like, you're consistently hanging out, right? For whatever reason, you're now like getting a little bit of pause. Is there, you know, other than the fact that, all right, you've kind of, you mentioned the marriage part, he's separated. You have no reason to think he's lying, right? You've learned about his life and his situation and his situation and his

marriage and his career and now you're just kind of wondering is this too intertwined or too messy for me, right? Like you're not necessarily even wondering if he's being dishonest or for any reason, right? Correct? That's correct. I don't feel like he's being dishonest. I feel like he's pretty upfront when I ask them questions. Okay, so you know I guess my answer is I don't really have an answer, like I can't say, oh yeah, you should definitely not do this, or, you know. If you don't think he's being dishonest and you think you can trust him,

it's only been three weeks, so you, you know, you have to be prepared to be wrong about anything, right? You have to give yourself the grace to pursue a person, to learn more about a person, to learn more about a person. You think something about him now and you're going to continue to learn and you're going to be right about some things and wrong about other things, right? The hope is that the things that you're right about are the more meaningful things and you hope that the things that you are wrong about are or maybe for the better you're wrong about or you know but you're just going to have

to be willing to learn. You're going to have to be willing to learn you're gonna have to be willing to learn about this person and and their life I mean you're 37 how does he he's 49 all right 49 right so like you're 37 you have a past you you know I don't know about your life or your past relationship those five and a half years he's 49 he's a little older. Most people you meet in their middle ages come with baggage, whatever that baggage looks like. Whether it's an ex-wife that they're still married to in a house, which is a little bit more baggage

than most people are used to, you have some kind of baggage. We all have baggage that we bring into a relationship. He has more tangible baggage, this ex-wife that you're like, huh, you're married? Like, you know, and then, you know, you find out they're married, you gotta ask them qualifying questions

and things like that. There's some definite red flags, right? Like the fact that he's still married and it doesn't sound like what you're telling me, he has any immediate plans to change anything, right? Like if he's referencing tax purposes and things like that, well, those benefits, whatever benefits they

are enjoying as a result of them to not get divorced, chances are nothing, that's not going to change. So what I'm hearing from you is that while he remains single and he's out there dating, he is comfortable with continuing to be married to his wife, right? There seem to be some practical benefits for those two people to stay married. So my guess is whether it's you or some other woman in his future, that will be the reason they eventually get divorced because if this man is serious about maybe meeting someone else and developing a relationship and growing a relationship, I hope that he's aware that like a new person eventually might not be okay with him being married to someone else.

Now maybe it's too early for you to know what his relationship goals are or how intentional he is about this thing that you two are growing into Does that all make sense? It does it does I guess in my previous I will say my previous partner was 49 and I was like I don't want to go quite that much older So I really didn't intend to even really date this person. It just kind of sure didn't happen. Yeah and intend to even really date this person. It just kind of didn't happen, surprisingly. I can't pick apart age. Yeah, I mean, you're like, I want to date a 34 year old next.

I mean, yeah, you can set that as a goal, right? But like, as we get older, age definitely becomes a lot more relative. And now you're learning that not every person that's 49 is the same, because I'm guessing this person's different than your ex and they come with different baggage and things like that so I think what's important for you if you continue to date this guy to continue to ask questions do you know if this person this guy do you know if he's

like looking to you know like what first of all what are your relationship goals well I you know originally I didn't have any major relationship goals. When I broke up with my ex, although I broke up with him last summer, I kind of hung, we had some other stuff and then we were hanging out a lot. And then I had originally wrote in because I was like, do I keep hanging out with him or do I,

like I was like, do I rekindle something with him or do I need to really just move on? And so I just ended up downloading Hinge. And I went on a couple of dates, but then I met this guy in the wild when I was out and he just kind of has surpassed all of the people that I'm, so I just kind of wanted to focus on one thing because I can't, I don't have the bandwidth

for dating a lot of people at once or even trying to keep those conversations going. Do you have any general goals? Do you want to date forever? Do you want to get married? Do you want to have a life partner? Do you want to have kids? Do you not want to have kids?

What are those? I would like to get married. Okay, you would like to get married. I do not need kids. I'm not interested in kids. So you don't need them or you don't want them? I'm not interested in them. I don't want them.

Okay, all right. So now you have some idea of, okay, those are some of your relationship goals. Do you have any idea what his relationship goals are? You know, I did ask, and this was like on our very first date, and it was, I guess I think I was feeling very like loose because I was figuring we weren't gonna date again, but I was like listening to his situation

I'd kind of written him off on the first date because of all of this kind of complication and then but Opted to give him but I had asked him if he I was like well given your situation You probably never want to get married again. Do you he's like no, I would definitely get married again So I feel like that was good. It was a so he, but you have no idea if that's a goal of his. I don't know if it's a goal. I would have to imagine, I don't know that he's thought much about goals if he's still in a marriage.

Well, I don't know. But that's kind of my point, right? You've heard the word intention be used. It's a common, we throw it around nowadays, but it does articulate what people may be needing to do more of in certain situations, which is to be more intentional with what you're doing with whatever it is you're doing. And to be intentional means that you don't kind of go into anything with, or whatever you're being intentional with, means you have less of like

a laissez faire, you know, like, we'll see what happens and like, come just kind of open and like, you know, you want some flexibility, especially when it comes to dating early on, right? Like, I think there's phases of dating where there's a, you know, the kind of more openness, laissez-faire approach, you know, you need a little bit of that early on because early on you have to be open to new things and be surprised and you have to take a chance on people who might be outside of your type or comfort zone or things like that. That being said, once you meet someone that you enjoy their company, early on you should have a pretty clear idea of what this person wants out of dating, especially if

you do. Otherwise, like what are you guys doing, right? That's how you get in this, that's how people get themselves in these traps. Like in your case, right, here you are, you're dating this married man, right? He's still married. That being said, he doesn't live with his ex-wife. His ex-wife is dating women now.

So, you know, in terms of like, oh, is there still something going on between him? You know, it's like, you know, sounds like maybe the way he articulated his situation, you know, makes a lot of sense, right? And you can understand why maybe he's still married. But like, if you know you wanna get married,

how long do you want to interact with someone, get to know them, spend time with them, maybe be intimate with them, invest real time before you understand if that's something they want to do. You know, that's different than knowing someone who's willing to do it. Like he's like, oh, you know, because, oh, I'm open to it.

Okay, well, you know, it's still early. What I'm saying is, I think some point sooner than later, you need to maybe learn more about what this, like, guy's plans are for dating, right? Because if you want to get, you know you need to maybe learn more about what this guy's plans are for dating, right? Because if you know you want to get married and you know you like him, do you want to take six months to find out that this man really has no plans on getting divorced? And while he's open to getting married, it's not something he really cares about. And maybe you'll find out that at 49 years old,

he wants to keep things pretty casual. He wants to keep, he likes having someone around. He likes having someone to like go on dates with, have dinner with. He likes someone to maybe have sex with if you guys start being intimate. And maybe he likes someone to like, again, like date and maybe even call you his girlfriend

if you're willing to, you know, to find the relationship. But like, maybe he doesn't want to get all that serious or maybe he, you know, like how long do you want to wait to find that out? I mean, I would give that at least three months to, I mean, three to six months, I don't think is that crazy to wait for that kind of information because you kind of don't really even know,

I think how much you truly like someone after, you know, I think, how much you truly like someone after, you know, I think it takes a couple months anyway to even know if those would be, you know, how we feel about that. I will say like one of the reasons my five and a half year relationship didn't work out is because he never got around to asking and I just needed to move on. So I definitely don't want to wait five and a half years. I definitely learned something from that. Okay, well, listen, and I kind of partly agree with you, but again, I'm not asking you to say, do you think you can marry me or anything like that?

It's not about how he feels about you, but I do think you could get a little bit more information about how serious he is about, like again, what does he want out of a relationship? Like why is he dating now? You know, at 49 years old, people should know whether they wanna date just to have companionship, but like have a more independent life,

or do they really wanna date because they still wanna find their life partner. Now that he has separated from his wife, 49 years old, very much middle-aged, right, very much has a lot of great years in front of him potentially, he very much could be in a position where he's like, I really want to find someone that, you know, in these years I have someone to enjoy life with

and I want to find my person and I want to, you know, that would be, that would make a lot of sense. It also would make sense if he doesn't want that, you know, but I do think you should be willing to find out sooner than later because sometimes six months turns into 12 months real quickly and then 12 months turns into five years. Like, you know what I'm saying?

Like, and I think the party, there's a part of you that is afraid to ask, I'm sensing, right? Because like, you know, you finally got the guts to leave that relationship, but I'm guessing it took you a while to get to that point. Too long, yeah. Yeah, too long.

It was like, I knew it, and I also had to plan like a six month out breakup for it too. It was a lot of planning on that one. Yeah, so I want you to avoid getting yourself in a situation like that again. Because this does, now while his situation does make sense and it doesn't sound like he's being shady or living some sort of double life,

his life is a little bit more complicated and developing a relationship with this guy will only make his life more a little bit more complicated and developing a relationship with this guy will only make his life more complicated for him. And if you do learn that you care about this guy and things evolve, you don't wanna be the person who makes him get divorced, you know what I'm saying? Like you want him to want to do it because that's what he wants.

But like, I think you need to find out a little bit more about, you know, I don't know. If at 37 years old and him being 49, I would want a little bit more clarity than him kind of sounding like a 21 year old fuck boy. That's kind of like, yeah, I mean, like, I want to get married someday for sure. Like, totally, like, you know, obviously, you know,

but it's more, it's more of a- I don't think he said it that way. Okay, I just wanna make sure, I mean, you were there. Yeah, I feel like he felt kind of confident in saying that, which was good. I guess my point is, you do not have to be a good people reader. You don't have to like be good.

You should just be able to ask, you know, these aren't interrogating questions, you know, like what do you want out of dating, you know, like- to ask. These aren't interrogating questions. What do you want out of dating? That's a good way to put it. I've kind of been asking probing questions here and there, but I just kind of sprinkle them in because I don't want to pepper them all at once. No, that's fair.

You can find the right balance. I'm just saying, I'm getting a sense from you that there's a little bit of reluctance from you to press, you know, because you don't wanna be pushy or whatever the reason why. And I do think you could press a little bit more than you are.

At the end of the day, we are afraid to press in any situation, because we're afraid of people saying, you know what, I don't wanna deal with this. You know, this is too much for me. You're pushy, whatever. I feel disrespected, whatever, whether it's a negotiation or in business or just,

sometimes when we're pushy, we're just, we don't want to because we're afraid of offending, we're afraid of pushing too much and losing what we want, but sometimes we have to push, we have to push for answers. My point is, in summoning your position who has a hesitancy of pushing, I have a hard time believing you're gonna push too much. And if they really care about you,

if they really like you, it won't feel like enough. Especially if it's just like, hey, you know what I'm saying? So essentially, I should ask him what he is looking for out of dating. I think that is a good question. When he's talked about is that she was also kind of, she's just turned 40. So she was also kind of significantly younger. And sometimes it sounds like she has some similarities. So part of me also wonders why, because before they ever even get to divorce or her being with someone else, there were other deeper core issues. And so I don't know whether to

probe too much into that, but that has me curious only because in some ways she just sounded similar. Similar to who? Him or you? Me. But I haven't met her or anything so I have no gauge, no true gauge. How does that make you feel? Well, okay in the sense that when he talks about their, he never ever talks bad about her and I know they kind of are still in, obviously since they have same friend group and stuff they, I mean I think they have their paths still cross and things like that. I guess if she is similar to me, I would wonder what the core reason is of them not working out in the first place. Because he's kind of, he's pretty laid back and I am too.

And then I just don't, I just wish I could understand better. I wish I would, I look forward to meeting her. Why? I want to know forward to meeting her. Why? I wanna know what she's like. Why? Well, or just ask him and get his opinion on why he thinks they ended outside of the lesbian part. Cause I think there's probably a deeper issue than that.

Why do you need to know? Cause I would be curious because if there are similarities, if that would be a similar, like if we would run into the same issues basically. But I guess that might be too probing. I don't know how necessary. Yeah, I mean, I don't think you need to meet her. Well, here's what I think. I think you don't need to meet her. I might. I probably will. But I don't care. Well, sure. If you continue to hang out with them, sure, but you don't need to meet her to try to read her.

I don't think meeting her is gonna tell you anything about your two's compatibility. Short of realizing that she might be not as out of the picture as you thought, and she could, I guess, be problematic or a pain in the ass, but I don't think you need to meet her for the reasons you're stating. Let me ask you this, if anything, what baggage do you think you bring into a relationship? I bring in um baggage.

I mean baggage is a heavy word, but like you know like the point I'm trying to get at is this man that you're dating is married, does own this. And he's still going into the dating world confident, I guess, to be like, I need you to accept my situation. And my situation includes a wife that is still married to me and we own property together. We're pretty intertwined. And he has the confidence to expect you to like work around him. And that's fine.

And we all are able to do that. But I'm just wondering as a 37 year old person who's lived 37 years of life and has her own shit, like, are you also willing to say this is who I am and these are things that I need at, you know, this, you know what I'm saying? Like, I just wanna make sure that you two are on equal footing and that you're not the person who's always like accommodating his baggage and his needs while you're just, you know what I'm saying?

Like, cause we all, he needs to accept things about you. You seem very open to accepting things about him. You also have the right to say, I'm not willing to accept that. As someone who was in a relationship for five and a half years and him being the first guy you liked since then, you have to be mindful of the fact that like, this is gonna just, this is already exciting and new

because it's a first in a while. You have to be mindful that you don't make, you don't start accepting things that you ultimately wouldn't like because it's just exciting to like someone, right? You got to remember that. Like, you might really like him, but you still have a lot to learn about him. But don't go into this relationship already asking yourself, do I have to be okay with things I wouldn't normally be okay with?

You have the right to say to yourself and to him, like if three weeks go by and you have five more dates, and so then you've known this guy for, I don't know, like a couple months, to press him a little bit more about like, do you think you're ever gonna get divorced? Like, no, seriously, like, you know, I really like you and it's been really fun to get to know you, but like, why are you still married? Because like, I'll be honest, I really like you and it's been really fun to get to know you and like but like why are you still married because like I'll be honest

I really like you and I just I want to get married someday and and the fact that you are married it doesn't sign your plan on getting divorced and totally get that like you know financially it might make sense but like is that something you plan on doing because like you know I'm saying like I would be very cautious about how much you invest in this person given the fact that you know what I'm saying? Like I would be very cautious about how much you invest in this person, given the fact that you know, you want to get married and he's married and you can't get married to him unless he gets divorced. Right.

And so, right. And that itself could be a long road. Fine. But like, I would be very cautious about entering a relationship with someone who's not even a position today to give you what you ultimately want when it comes to being in a relationship. It's like same thing. You don't like, if someone met you, right?

If someone like, you know, if a guy called in, right? And said, I'm dating this woman, I really want kids. She doesn't. And then he's like, I really like her. She's a lot of fun. We have a good time together. She makes me laugh. Love her.

You know, we like the same stuff, but like, I don't know. I would be like, I don't know if you should date her, you know, because you don't date someone knowing that like, one of your big major like benchmarks, a non-negotiable if you will, like you getting married sounds like a non-negotiable for you. Someday you wanna get married. I mean, yeah, life might change, who knows,

but like, you wanna get married. So I wouldn't, I'd be very careful about dating married men or married men who have no real plans on getting divorced. And like, well, I get it, I get't yeah, I'd be very careful about dating married men or married men who have no real plans on getting divorced and like Well, I get it. I get his explanation makes sense. It just might not be for you, right? And you know what I'm saying? So I would be very cautious about entering and investing in a situation That like right now isn't ideal for you You know, like you don't you don't date someone knowing you want to have kids knowing they don't hoping they'll change you, you know? Like you don't date someone knowing you wanna have kids knowing they don't, hoping they'll change. And I think, that's my point with you is,

I don't think you should invest that much more time if you don't have clarity about what this man really wants to do with his marriage. Because you don't wanna invest months and then find out he's really not gonna get divorced anytime soon. And that truthfully, he really likes his situation, he's comfortable getting along with his ex-wife,

they're actually pretty close, and he doesn't wanna fuck up his bar, and his investments, and his house, or whatever it is that might be intertwined, and he would rather just generally date casually, and be okay with dating people who are comfortable accepting his life. casually with, you know, and be okay with dating people who are comfortable accepting his life.

And I don't think you are in a position to accept his life. I think you want different things for yourself. And I think you can, you know, vet this out a little bit more. And I think it's fine to keep dating him and learn more. But like right now, the information that you have is very unclear at best, and signs point to him not being willing to get divorced anytime soon. Yeah, I think that's a good take.

I think I was trying to, and that is what I wanted to talk to you, because I was trying to figure out how basically the mindset to go into this with, whether I was over thinking it or basically what to look out for, and I think that's a really good point is giving it a couple more months to get a feel for it, but not wasting too much time if he's not giving any real concrete answers. I pushed him a second time asking more clarifying questions,

and he did say they had decided to stay married two more years. And that, so the goal was to do it within like this year or so, um, because it was like that first year after helped him in taxes this year, helped her. And he's like, so now we can, you know, they may end up getting divorced. I just want you to understand that you do not need to accept his life outright and you have the right to say there's things I want. I think as a 37 year old woman or person, a 37 year old person dating,

I think you need to have more clarity about what you want for your relationships and for yourself. Being more intentional, saying out loud to yourself and eventually the people you date that you really wanna get married someday. And I don't think you should be afraid to put that out there pretty early and then you should hope that discourages some people.

You want to find out who doesn't want the same things you want. If you want to keep dating for fun and just fuck around, sure. Date people that aren't very serious about what you're serious about. But if you want to date with intention, then like you have a right to filter out some of the people

who don't want what you want, and you can do that pretty early. Don't go into a dating situation hoping people change. Sure, sure. I think what is nice about him is I've been able to communicate better with him about hard stuff. So what you're saying, I feel like is very doable. He's been much easier to talk to about hard stuff

than my ex was, so yeah, I think that helps me at least go in with eyes a little more open and kind of knowing what questions to ask, because I really also wasn't sure what questions I can even ask some things. You can ask whatever you want, and that's the thing. I think that you clearly have a little bit of hesitation and a little, and I think you need to, the biggest thing you need to focus on, I think, in my opinion

is just understanding what you want, come into this thing as a little bit more confidence, and you have the right to say what you want. And listen, so many times in dating situations, we want to say the right thing, because we want people to like us, we want to feel accepted. But honestly, when you really look at it pragmatically, sometimes saying the right thing is the wrong thing because saying the right thing is saying something that we don't really mean, we don't really believe in, but we're doing it or saying it because we want to make a good impression. We want to be accepted, we want to be liked, and then, you know, that's why people call it

the honeymoon phase or when they say you go on a first date and people don't really meet you, they meet your representative. You know, and then all of a sudden, you know, you're six to 12 months into a relationship and you're like, you're kind of different. The more yourself you can be and be comfortable with being rejected early on because you are willing to be yourself, you know, it might take a couple blows of the eagle. It might be a little like, you know, you might feel some fatigue at time because rejection can always be hard. Do you wanna date someone for five and a half years again only to have to break up with them because ultimately you're gonna end up

not giving you what you wanted? You know what I'm saying? But that's how you get yourself in situations like that. So you need to change as well. It's not just about finding someone else. It's about you recognizing, how did I get to that point where it took me five and a half years and I had to make up this whole plan to exit the relationship.

That's something you need to reflect on and that you need to change about yourself. It's not about just finding someone different because the part of that that caused you to wait that long is the part of you that is maybe just not standing up for yourself as much as you should, not being confident in yourself to say, this is what I want, this is what I need, and if you're not able or willing to give to me,

as sad as that might make me feel, this isn't for me. And you have to be willing for someone to meet your standards in dating too. Yeah, and getting to the bottom of that before I'm very emotionally invested is also I think what you're trying to say too. Yeah, it's just, you're definitely just kind of giving a general tone which I think is very relatable for people that you know you don't want to step on their toes, you don't want to press,

you don't want to be rude, you don't want to you know I don't want to ask questions that are you know but like listen you got to figure it out you know and we have as we get older we have less time to waste on on people you know and you, so it's just like how intentional. And he's an adult. Yeah. No, yeah, sure. You can handle it. Exactly, right?

And also you can handle it too. You can handle finding out. Yeah, thank you. And this is all about you being afraid to get an answer you don't want, right? And that's why we don't ask questions. It's because sometimes we're afraid of the answer. And then we're afraid either,

I don't wanna get that answer because I don't wanna have to do something difficult,'re afraid, either I don't want to get that answer because I don't want to have to do something difficult, like leave, or I don't want to get an answer or be rejected. I think my big takeaway for you is, when you're out there dating, whether it's this guy, you move on with this guy, is at least understand your basic non-negotiables,

your basic relationship goals. What do you really want for yourself? What's the type of relationship you want? And then early on in dating, you should find out pretty quickly whether that person is even capable of meeting those main goals because all the other stuff is inconsequential to your non-negotiables or your main core values of what you want for a partner. And there are a lot of nice people and good guys and funny guys out there that still might not have the same core goals

that you have for yourself when it comes to being in a relationship. Yeah, I think sometimes when you don't want kids, it can be hard to pinpoint those goals. Because a lot of people are like, I want to get married and have kids and build a family. One of the reasons I want to get married

is so I could get a house with someone, like a mortgage with someone. I don't really want to do that outside of a marriage. But Is that just because like, you know, help financially or, or you just don't want to? I would rather go down. I'd rather go down the path where we're going to do every, you know, work with doing things together and then we buy a home together.

For me personally, I can't afford one by myself. And I also don't want to just like date someone and get a house with them, but there's like no other thing tying us together. I think that's kind of crazy. So I, all I'm saying is that when I think about like, when you say goals, I'm like, well, marriage is sure a goal, but it's hard to think of like bigger goals. And sometimes I wonder even if like, is that just a petty goal? Because I don't want kids in a family, but I don't think it is. It just, that's why it's sometimes hard to pinpoint those big relationship goals with

me. That makes sense. But you know, sometimes when you meet the right person, I mean, clearly listen, you have some kind of goal because you left your last relationship because ultimately he didn't want to, I think you have more goals than you realize. I think sometimes when you're in a relationship that you're really happy to be in, it also shifts your goals.

True, true. So, I think it's okay that you keep hanging out with this guy, but don't be afraid to get more information. I feel comfortable saying that you should get the answer from him sooner than you feel like you're ready or is fair. Because I think you have a tendency of talking yourself out of confrontation. All right, I think that's pretty fair.

That gives me at least some way to move forward that's thoughtful. I was kind of, I feel like I did over, do a lot of overthinking in my last relationship. And so some of this, I was trying to just, uh, relax and enjoy the, uh, kind of dating process with him. Yeah. And you can, right.

Just because he is the first thing I liked, but, but just be careful that you're not lying to yourself and convince yourself, well, I'm just having fun and chilling because it's the truth is you're afraid to find out. Just be careful. Yeah, that makes sense. I can, I'm just having fun and chilling because the truth is you're afraid to find out. That's good. Be careful about that. Yeah, that makes sense. I can do that. All right.

And I have a pretty, I feel like I've been able to be upfront with him and stuff. So I think I can continue to do that and hopefully get the answers I need. All righty. Okay. Well, thanks for the call. I appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you so much for your time.

It's great to meet you. Likewise. Thank you. All right. All right. Good luck. And please give us an update if anything changes with him. All right. I will. All right. Take care. All right. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Bye. What if I told you that the most important part of your spring cleaning routine is your sock drawer?

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wide sleep awareness month people that's HelixSleep.com slash VIALL for 20% off site wide HelixSleep.com slash VIALL. How's it going? Good my name is Jessica I'm 26 and I'm wondering if I should break up with a guy that I want to marry. All right, well, why do you wanna marry him, and why do you think you need to break up with him? When I first met him, we kinda had this really instant connection that just felt right,

and I'm debating breaking up with him because it's been almost five years since we've met and we've had some back and forth and now I'm kind of at this place where I'm going to be turning 27 soon and I'm just kind of getting ready to settle down. And, uh, there's a couple of things that I'm a little bit concerned about in terms of how he is in a relationship. Like what?

His problem solving abilities aren't really the best. He tends to want to run away when it's time to talk about things that might be bothering me. Um, I'm going to say runaway bully. It's just that he kind of avoids the situation and then I'm kind of just stuck either having to put things under the rug, which does not work well for me, or kind of do all the mental labor. Okay. I do want to point out that when I said why do you want to marry them and then why do you think you need to break up with him? The only thing you said about why you wanted to marry him

is when you met, there was some great chemistry. Yeah, okay. A good point. I definitely think that there is more beyond that. I think that initially when I met him, I had that feeling of like, is it the first thing that I'm gonna marry? And I don't know, it's just like the,

when you know, you know feeling that people talk about. So I experienced that. And of course, beyond that, like as the years have gone on, he is one of the best people that I know. And he is a wonderful person. There are a lot of traits in him that I see that I want in a husband. He's very hardworking. Um, so that's a great provider, which I really respect. He is very loving. He does little things for me a lot of the time that make me feel special. Honestly, there is not too much like we really don't argue much. I feel like our relationship anytime that we are fighting, it's like, I feel

like I'm kind of fighting by myself, talking to myself, I guess. And it's more him just listening and saying that he'll do better and wanting to do better, but I don't really feel like there's like skin in the game. I guess, like, it's not like he's really like investing into it and like diving deep with me on these issues. Do you have a, do you have a very specific argument or issue that like you felt like you were, you know, communicating to him? And yeah, I could give a good example.

Um, recently I had a company party and I wanted, it was all of us were going to go, all of me and my company along with all of our significant others were going to go away for the weekend and he was supposed to come and he never really marked it on the calendar or anything like that and then we I brought it up multiple times reminding him and then when right before that weekend was about to happen he had something come up with his family and it wasn't it was it was come up with his family. And it wasn't, it was, it was a party for his family. It was a holiday party. And he just was like, Oh, this is going

on this date. And I said, that's the same weekend as my company party. And it's really important that you're there for me. And he was like, Oh, well, I don't really know what to do. This is like a every year type of deal. And it's really important that I'm there. It's like, you know, the big deal for my family that I'm there. And so I mean, this is on me too, because I just said, Okay, well, then I guess you can go to that. But then I had a lot of feelings about it that I wanted to keep on bringing up and talking about. And I just kind of was saying, I'm not cool with this. It's kind of like makes me feel like you're choosing other things over me, which kind of

times to happen. I feel like I get put on the back burner a lot of the times like it's like, oh, no worries, she'll just kind of figure it out. And then I'll have to get over it a little bit. And so I asked him if we could talk about it, I think three times I gave him, I gave him a few days in between each time and each time he was either like, I just had a really long day at work, I'm really tired or can we just not do this right now? It's kind of late. And then I guess like right before I left, I was just like, this really needs to

be talked about. And his response was just like, I'm gonna have a lot of good things to say to you after the weekend's done. So like after the fact, like after it's all finished. And regardless of the details of the story, but that last part I'm hearing happens a lot. Yes. So whatever it is you guys are fighting about or in conflict about or not on the same page.

Because honestly, like the details of that story, I mean, I could ask more questions and I could sit here and be like, well, you know, I kind of get hit where he's coming from or not get where he's coming from. It doesn't really matter, right? You had a point of view, he had a point of view, which event was more important to, you know,

who knows, right? Like to him, obviously that was an important event. You wanted him to be there for you, vice versa. I don't know, maybe he's a bad planner, not that organized. You were frustrated for whatever reason. But the point is, your frustration really comes down to he never really, he just kind of nicely blows you off

and waits for you to give up. Yeah, exactly. For sure, that's what it is. And I did notice that trend, you're definitely right, spot on there. And I think that even, it's almost like he's really happy when I just can ignore things with him. Like if I can just get over it on my own

and I just keep it pushing, it almost makes, and I just like, keep it pushing. Like, it's like, it almost makes him, he's like, ah, like, relief. I don't have to go into any conflict resolution, I guess. And I feel like that's a part of relationships. Like, I don't like to play, obviously, I don't want that either. I don't want to feel upset. But I feel like that's a really big strength in a relationship. It's what brings you back together when you can solve problems well together. And I'm, I know that further down the line, when I have kids one day, I don't really want to be dealing with a partner who is just expecting me to either figure it all out on my own, or if there's something that is going on between my partner and I don't want it to be like,

okay, well, let's just put that to the side because there's so many other more important things than your feelings. And that's kind of the gist of how I feel often. You know, like feelings aren't that big of a problem because he's also a little bit like of a workaholic too. So it's like for him, it's like him putting his work first a lot happens. And then it's like, I'm just kind of expected again on that same front to just like step back and just be like, okay, that's fine when you have time for me and it makes me feel desperate

and I don't want that feeling of course, I wanna feel goes in as well. Where do you think you fall in his list of priorities? I mean, he would say- I don't care what he says. I wanna, I'm curious how you feel. I feel like I'm probably, I would say... I don't care what he says. I'm curious how you feel. I feel like I'm probably, I would say I'm after work. I would say I'm number two.

What percentage out of 100 do you think work is a priority versus, or where do you? I'd probably say work is like 70. I'd probably take up 30. He only has two priorities in life? Yeah, just working. So obviously he has, he's very close with his family. He's not really like, we do have like a couple close friends,

but he's not really, he also started his sobriety journey a little, a year, almost a year and a half ago. So he's been kind of starting that fresh. So it's like, that's also another factor, I think, but. What were, did he have a big drinking problem or did he just, you know? Yeah, yeah, it was drink, it was just a drinking problem. It was kind of like pulling him off from the things

that he wanted in life that were important to him but I mean he obviously of course wants to settle down wants all that stuff too he wanted to work towards those goals but that starts with being able to take care of yourself first of course. How did he get sober? Did he go cold turkey? Did he need 10 or 12 step? No, he went cold turkey. He's a little extreme. He's just like, I'm done. And that was it. And he just sees like, my life is so much better. Everything's great.

Also him and I, with the on and off stuff that we have had, I met him, like I said, about almost five years ago, we were quite a bit younger when we met and, uh, he would do this cycle where it was like three months of sobriety and I was always in his life when he was like going through that where it was just like he wanted to like not be going out and partying and hanging out with a bunch of like just the wrong crowd and then he would kind of fall off and get back into that and then circle back around so I feel like I have some built-up stuff where I just feel like I'm just like always there. Like I've always kind of just been available, which I'm like now I'm kind of starting to regret that. But there's nothing I can do to change the

past. And like this last year and a half, we've been together fully while he's been sober. So that has been like the beginning of our, I feel like the first time we've actually taken a real chance at it for this last year and a half. And we lived together and everything. Real chance at what? Just like being together because before I don't really feel like it was taken seriously by him. He's been in my life for five years, but it was on and off for every three months.

And then we took like a big break I dated another person. Was it his choice or your choice to take the break? It's always been my choice I just say like I can't do this anymore and I just like leave and he never fights for it really it's just like I understand if you're unhappy like you're unhappy and I get it so that doesn't really feel like my choice either sometimes. Yeah it doesn't sound like it's your choice. You know, you break Yeah You were doing it hoping to get a reaction you didn't get and then he didn't fight for you

So you're like, I guess i'll date someone maybe that'll make him jealous Yes, I feel like i've done a lot of things like that where it's like I feel like he's kind of been like my kryptonite I guess where it's just like I just like can't like I don't know why I just I feel like I put myself in positions where it's like that was either like Like I hurt somebody else because I'm trying to get over him the process or like I just have like embarrassed myself trying to do something that like

What brings you guys like together when you took the break? He always would reach out and like we both like would always say how our connection is very special and it's just like we are very good partners like I feel that we balance each other really well and he does ground me a lot. We end up missing each other and he'll read when he reaches out it's just like it's very hard for me to not want to step back into it. And yeah, I don't know.

I guess that. Have you ever broached therapy with him? I mean, can I already assume what his answer was? Yeah, no, actually, we do have a therapist. We got a couple's therapy together. You got a couple's therapy? We do, yeah. Does that work?

Do you guys get anything out of it? Yeah. Um, well, we first went because of all of this stuff with the back and forth. Um, I kind of had a lot happen. Well, I got pregnant twice. By him? With him. Yeah. By him.

Yeah. And? Um, well, the first one I missed was married and he was not really able to be there for me that time. And then the second one, we weren't together. I had like just a little bit of... I freaked out by the reaction that I got from family members the first time around that it happened. And I like knee-jerk reaction, had an abortion and I do feel like I regret that because that's something that I've always wanted in my life is

to be a mother. So I just, I feel like that was really hard for me to get past those two things. Dr. Justin Marchegiani Yeah, I'm sorry about that. Dr. Kirsten Marchegiani And so, thank you. Yeah. But we did go to therapy together to get past that because I just kept on bringing it back up and I was just like, I just don't think I can move past this and feel like I can have this trust with you and like that you actually like, I didn't believe he loved me fully,

but I was like, why am I with you then? I don't understand. I feel like weak in that sense where I just was like, I'm with you, but I don't feel like you actually love me, but I hope you do. And so then I threw therapy, I did find that like, I know that he does love me. How do you know that?

I mean, a lot of his actions, like I said, like our day to day is really, it is great. He does make genuine efforts and tries hard to show me that he loves me daily in his words. And he's very like like affectionate towards me. Not like in a sexual way, just like I think like an adoring way. Have you talked with your couples therapist about the issue you're calling in about? Which is essentially like he doesn't really want to engage in any type of conflict resolution with you or communicate you know or just hear you out and deal with some stuff as opposed to feeling like you he just kind of like avoids you waits for you to get over it and and then you feel kind of like you kind you

have to convince your it's cut because it sounds like you have to convince yourself to get over things that you're not really over you bury it and then it just kind of sits there and like you're I don't know you're like I don't know I guess whatever and then have you talked with your therapist about that? With him? Yes, we have. Yeah, we have spoken about it a little bit, but it's mostly around the issue of him prioritizing work

because when it's brought up, it's like, he's just too tired to deal with things when it comes down to it. Like, it's just like, it's always seems too tired. So my therapist has like tried to, or our therapist has tried to suggest just him making, setting certain time aside to be intentional. And that's when we started to do more date nights. And it's just the discussion sometimes. It just feels like when it's too heavy for him, it does hit a point where it's just too much much to break through. And like, I don't know, I guess we haven't really nailed down that specific topic with

my, with our therapist, which I would, that's a good thing for us to focus on and bring up. I feel like I feel a little bit helpless about it. Like I just don't know if that part of him can change. So I think maybe I'm just here to bring that up too. Cause I don't really know if it would be. You called in. All right, go ahead.

Well, I'm just saying you called in debating whether you should break up with him if this part doesn't get better. Yeah. So what do you have to lose? True. Yeah, that's true. How seriously are you thinking he might not be your guy?

I feel like this is kind of where I go back and forth because I feel like I have done a lot of tendency in myself of things in our relationship. So I feel like in my mind, I feel like he is the person for me. And I don't really feel like it's that much of a percentage that debates if he is or not. But when I get to the point where I feel

frustrated and like, he's not participating, I'm like fully out the door. So it's like, I don't really know how to gauge if that's a lot of me is contemplating it or if it's just like something that is like a really important thing for me to, obviously it is an important thing for me to face and to change within our relationship dynamic, but yeah, I'm not really sure how to gauge that. Do you feel like, do you feel like he's more of your boyfriend or your partner? And by partner, I mean like the, you know,

being a partner, like a teammate. Do you feel like he's a teammate? No, that's a good, that's, you know, the thing that you always say where it's like, you have a boyfriend who wants the benefits of a girlfriend but isn't really interested in being a boyfriend. Yeah. Yeah.

That's kind of how I feel like it is sometimes with him. Like I do feel like it's more, he is more like that thing of active partner who wants to like, because he can do all the other things like, I mean, obviously, like, this is a little different, but it's like, what's the taking out the trash or like picking me up from the airport? Like things like, I know I can rely on him for certain like physical things that I need a partner for. I mean, emotionally, I can also rely on him for like my own stuff. If I was talking to him about it, but when it's him and I, it's like, if it involves him having to like dig deep, it's like, he's just like, he, and he knows that he avoids that with everybody too, it's not just me.

But yeah, that's not really where I have, feel like he's like stepping up. Well, listen, you've been through a lot with this guy, clearly, and you're clearly conflicted. I guess what I would say to you is, you know who he is. This is who he is. You've been with him for five years. You have tried all sorts of things to try to get through this guy, but he is, and correct

me if I'm wrong about any of this, unbelievably, you know, consistent at least or, you know, stubbornly himself. And you've tried all sorts of ways to try to tweak and adjust this part of them with very little success with that. Does that feel accurate? Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Cause they're asking success, but right. It's kind of, it's kind of a little compared to the. Well, I mean, success around this particular topic, not success in the sense that like, I mean, he's currently your boyfriend. But, you know, and you're in one of these situations where it's a challenge, right? Because like, ultimately, you know, it doesn't sound like he's like some toxic asshole or you can actually point out some things that you really like about him.

I do think it's interesting again, even though you did eventually articulate things, it sounded like this guy just does it for you. But there's a lot of chemistry there, but there are some significant aspects of the relationship that do seem to be missing for you. And you, sounds like throughout the entirety of your relationship, you've had a hard time letting go of just how, of the chemistry, the intangible,

which I get, like that's, that's hard to find with people. So it's hard to let that go. But there's a difference between dating someone for a period of time or, you know, I guess there's a difference between dating someone in your 20s and marrying them for the rest of your life. Which is why I think a lot of people have a hard time sustaining marriages and relationships these days

because they get married for reasons that have nothing to do with keeping a marriage going. Exactly. And when they ask, when they get married, most people stay in relationships because of how they met. Because of, like you said, like we meet someone, especially in your case, we meet someone that like that, boy, that, that meeting them really, you know, I bet you vividly remember how you met. I bet you like at times telling the story or at least fantasizing or reminiscing

about how you met in that period of time. And I'm guessing when you guys met, you made a lot of promises to yourself, this is the man I'm gonna marry, or whatever, stuff like that. And we don't want to, internally, we don't wanna be wrong. We don't wanna feel like we're full of shit. And sometimes we hold on to how we met someone,

and we hold on to these kind of promises we've made with very little information about someone's character or how they are in relationships. And then we date them for a period of time and then all of a sudden we're like, well, I've been with them for five years and it's like this. But like very little about why they're in the relationship

has to do with how that person makes them feel day in and day out. So, you know, it's not a clear choice for you because, you know, I understand there's a lot of history there and I understand he sounds like a pretty good guy and it's like, you know, the devil you know is better than the devil you don't, you know, and you're like, oh, you've also dated

other people and you still kind of went back to him and in your mind you're thinking, you know, that kind of justifies me coming back. I tried, I tried to date other people, but you might have to, you might have to make a decision that you leave without dating anyone else for a period of time. I don't know, but I will say this. The thing that you think is a problem in your relationship is a problem. And the feeling that you feel alone in your relationship.

Is that fair to say? Yeah, that's fair. That's something that I tell him a lot when we're going through certain things that I need to talk through. I do end up telling him I feel really alone in our relationship right now and I feel disconnected. Sometimes when it comes to that

and that's where usually it drives from, it's like I feel disconnected. And then he just like okay I don't like it's almost like I feel like an annoying little sister sometimes and it just makes me feel so uncomfortable because I'm just like this isn't how I should feel like yeah I should feel like I'm just it's not it's not it's probably not going to get much better. It hasn't gotten better. I mean, you could certainly, I, I certainly like, you know, try it out in couples therapy if you're still going to couples therapy with them, but eventually you're going to have to say that he would see. Our therapist on his own too now, which I don't know if that would help the case

because I know, I mean, I know that he does want to work it out and he wants to be with me, but I know that it's for him. It's just like this emotional, it's the emotional intelligence that he never learned to have because for his life, he has done what emotions or eyes is the prep. Sure. But also like, I don't know, he's not, I don't mean, I don't know him at all, but also like I don't know he's not I don't mean I don't know him at all But doesn't sound like an idiot and a lot of what you're saying isn't a matter of an it's nothing to the emotional intelligence It's just a willingness To be there for your partner. I'm too tired from work

Isn't a lack of emotional intelligence. It's just like he doesn't care enough Yeah, or he's just like he doesn't care enough. Or he's just used to you giving up. No, I feel like I do hear that. Yeah, I think you should. I do feel like I need to hear about it sometimes because I think that I feel like I want to hear the truth, no matter what, always.

And I just feel like this means you just don't care and that's okay but just say that you know like I don't want to I don't want to pretend like it's because oh it it really has nothing to do with the fact that like I don't care it's just I really am tired it's like even if I'm so tired and I can barely like keep my eyes open because I'm just so exhausted because I've had the most rainy day. I would never just say, oh, you're feeling this way. You just continue to feel this way so that I can feel comfortable

with how I wanna feel right now, just go to sleep. And on my time, we'll talk. It's when I'm ready. Because I just like that, it just feels so unfair to me. And it feels like you just don't care. And let's just call it what it is. I think a lot of times, we all like to make excuses for our partners for their shortcomings, especially if we've tried and failed. The next step is just kind of make excuses for them.

And I do think in a lot of cases, women like to make excuses for their male partners a lot. And in your case, you know, like, you know, the stereotype that women are more emotionally mature than men and yada yada yada. I think a lot of times women will play into those stereotypes and then make excuses for their boyfriends and chalk it up to like emotional immaturity and he just needs to do the work and he's just been suppressed because he's a man and talks of masculinity. He's like, I don't know, maybe he just doesn to do the work and he's just been suppressed because he's a man and talks to masculinity. He's like, I don't know, maybe he just doesn't give a shit.

You know, like maybe. Right, right. You know, like I don't think he's all that emotionally stunted, he sees you like coming to him and saying, let's resolve this and he's like, not right now, babe. And you let it go. You've already broken up with him and it didn't work. Right.

And I think that's probably why you are- Right, and I feel like the boy who cried wolf. Yeah, yeah. I do, I really feel like the boy who cried wolf because it's like I'm like, I'm done, never doing this again, and like- So maybe right now, maybe your tone is, maybe your tone should be like, stop accepting apologies

for things he's apologized multiple times for. Yeah. And so when you voice a frustration and he's like, oh, I'm sorry, just say, I don't want your apologies. I want you to care. And when he says, I do care, then you say, I need you to show me that you care, not just say that you care, because you say you care all the time, and then you show me you don't. What I want is to deal with shit. You don't like to deal with shit. And I'm tired of dealing with

our shit on my own. Okay, you know, and you make me feel like a nag because you just, you don't care. You just don't care. And stop calling him avoidant or whatever. I don't know, maybe he is, but like, whatever, he doesn't care. Yeah, okay. Or he cares just enough, you know?

I don't want to say he doesn't care, but he clearly cares about you, right? But at the end of the day, what you're asking for is not that complicated. Because you're not even, you know, you're just asking for him to like take the time to participate and talk with you about a frustration you have and just work through it.

And it's, I'm honestly, I do not, not that I don't think it matters how I come across when we are arguing, because I do feel like in moments I have a right to get upset, but I'm not hard to talk to. I want to resolve the issue. I don't want to get into some big fight. I don't think anyone really does, but I feel like that's what's frustrating the most to me is it's just like I it's so easily and then he gets frustrated when he's

Like why are you upset like after days and days of? me Probably asking hey, can you speak about this? Can we talk about this, please? Like I really like this is bothering me. It's like and then Once I've been kind of put off for multiple days, then it's like, what's wrong? I don't understand. It's like, well, now I'm frustrated. Now I'm like emotionally, like I'm crying, whatever, because it's just like, I'm like, what?

Do you, I mean, I'm curious, have you referred to him as your best friend before? Funny you ask that. Yeah, I mean, I guess so, but he is one of my best friends, but he's not my very best friend. I'm glad you know that, because I'm guessing there are other people out there

who know you better than he does. 100%, yeah. And the fact that you can say that 100%, the guy you've been dating with for five years, you've been pregnant with twice, for different reasons, those pregnancies didn't proceed. Both of them, whether it's a miscarriage or an abortion, are incredibly emotional experiences,

and experiences that I can safely guess he doesn't really totally even know what you went through in either of those experiences. And if he does, most of that is a result of dragging him to therapy. Yeah, definitely. And how much about those experiences do you think he's still completely unaware of what you went through?

Yeah, I think a lot. And are there other people who know better? Oh, for sure. Yeah, my best friend, my best friend that I've been best friends with since childhood has a really hard time. Just come around and like he has grown a lot. Who do you think his best friend is?

Me. Yeah, and that doesn't surprise me. It does not surprise me that he actually probably thinks of you as his best friend. Best friend, subjective, we all can have different different differences on what that means, but like people who really know who we are, people that we have given the opportunity to get to know us without, you know, and accept us for all of our strengths and weaknesses. You're his best friend because you've been willing to be his best friend and he's not your best friend because he hasn't been willing to be yours.

I guess that's interesting that you brought that up. I definitely, that's a point that I was thinking of not too long ago. I was just thinking of how he does always tell me like, you're my best friend and I told my sister, I was just like, I just don't feel like he's mine though. Have you ever told him that? I have such great, no I haven't,

and that's upon me for sure. I usually just tell him, yeah, like you're my best friend too. I think that's- Not really true. Okay, well stop lying to him. Okay. I don't mean, you know, you're also lying

to yourself a little bit, but I don't mean, you know, it's like, but that might hurt him. And I don't mean like, I mean that in a good way. Yeah. You know, the only thing that's gonna save this relationship is you're gonna get through to him somehow, so stop telling him what he wants to hear. Stop placating him, you know, stop trying to not ruffle

his feathers and just be honest with him about how you feel about your relationship. Like, what do you have to lose at this point? And when you say things like like you're my best friend, you can be like I know, but you know, I've been thinking about it, you're not mine. And you're not mine because like there are other people out there who just know me better than you do.

And they know me better because like they took the time to care and you don't care. Like I'm your best friend because I care. I've been willing to be your best friend. And you're just, you're not my best friend because you haven't been mine. You haven't been there for me. You just haven't.

Like you've been okay at times, but there are people out there who are. And I want the man I married to be my best friend. And I think a lot of people we like to say, oh, you're my best friend. Well, you know, your best friend should know you better than most people. I feel like relationships for me,

like my family and my friendships, like I thought something that I put so much effort and time into because it matters so much to me and I have the best support system. And so it's hard cause it's like, I feel like that should make sense in the area of my partner too. And it just doesn't.

And yeah, that is hard because I'm like, I just really don't want to. I do feel like we have so many good parts about our relationship and it's so hard for me to like get that out of my head. But I feel like I have to just be so honest. That is the most important part of who I am is some of the relationships I have. And so it has to be friends. Like he should be my best friend, you're right. The good doesn't make up for the bad

and there can be a lot of good in relationships and it doesn't mean they're your person. So, you know, like when you're going through that kind of, oh, I like this and I like that, that all might be true. But if your constant feeling about him and the relationship is a negative one, that tells you something. If you're more unhappy than happy

when thinking about him and the relationship, that tells you something. If you're constantly just feeling disconnected and alone in your relationship, that tells you something. And if the man that you've been with for five years isn't your best friend, that should tell you something. I definitely haven't really thought about it like that before, because I do think that I value,

because of the value of my relationships that I just, with my family and friends, I think that it would just be hard to come close to, like for any guy, like I just don't, I never really had a significant other where I feel like they're my best friend and only inside and out I don't really feel like I've had any I really take the time to get to know me super well and I've always been worried about being with somebody who is with me because of what I can give to them

versus like, because I feel like I will give like everything I have into a relationship. And I just think that like, obviously, I mean, most people do, I guess, but I just think that sometimes to maybe I overextend a little bit. And then I just think that like, I'm afraid of that being taken advantage of, but I'm letting that be, is what I have to. If you took out how you guys met

and all of the investment you've put in this relationship, what would you think you have? When you say all of the investment, do you mean like all of our, everything, like time spent? Yeah, I mean, I don't know, most people, I'm curious how you think about that, but a lot of people in your position, it's hard to walk away from something

you've put a lot of work into. Yeah, especially when there's been like so much positive change, I think, through our relationship and growth, although it might not look like all that much, it keeps on getting better and better in all these areas so I guess if I took all that out I don't think I don't know if I would be in the relationship if it was just like this is

a brand new like if this was a situation if I met him I was now and I was coming up with these issues and I'm my age now because it's like, obviously me at 22 was very different than me at 27. And I think that if I was just looking at that for what it was and not knowing anything about him and just seeing that I'd say, yeah, I'm good. I would like someone with more ability

to be there for me more. So, I mean, that's to tell you something. I mean, history's not nothing, but it's not, you don't have kids, you're not married, you know, there might be a time in your place in your life where the history gets you through it, you know, but like before, because like the truth is, whoever you marry, you're gonna deal with some shit.

Shit's gonna happen, I don't know what, but I promise you this, you know, even the person that you marry, let's assume that you, him or someone else, but you eventually get married, and the moment you get married, you feel like, I really love this person. Maybe you figure shit out with him,

maybe you break up with him, you find someone else. But let's say the moment you get married, it feels so fucking right and good and exactly what you hoped for for yourself. Even if you're lucky enough to be in that position, I promise you, something's gonna happen in that relationship and you're gonna think to yourself, I can't believe this ever would happen to me or us.

It will, I promise. And it doesn't mean you guys can't get through it. A lot of people do get through. Everyone deals with shit like that. I don't know what that shit is going to be. It might be something that you cause, he causes something that's just unavoidable. Maybe just like life happens, something happens,

God forbid, with a child or a parent. I don't know, right? Money, who knows? Life fucking happens and you have to deal with it. Right now you have someone where like, when that happens you're gonna be totally alone. So listen I I don't know if bringing up is the right answer but I do think starting now you need to just be more direct about

how you feel about him in this relationship and you need to stop trying to fight for this relationship by yourself. Do you feel like he's afraid of losing you? Yeah, he tells me like life would be really scary without you. Maybe there's hope, you know, but like he needs some kind, like something is not connecting the dots and I don't doubt that he might be. You might have to talk about, I think that friendship comment might be worth pointing out. I would even bring it up in couples therapy. I would maybe, this is, I think,

bring it up in couples therapy. And I would bring up the fact that, like, I am seriously thinking about leaving this relationship because I feel alone. I don't want to, and I don't wanna lose you, but like, I do feel like this is a person that I realize is not my best friend and they're not my best friend because like they Haven't really that been that interested in being my best friend and he might say well, I am what do you mean by that?

You're like well because you know Becky Molly and in Erica they all know they they you don't know this about like I you don't there's like a lot of things That you don't know about me and you don't know about me because when I you don't. There's like a lot of things that you don't know about me and you don't know about me because when I come to you and try to share things with you, you tell me you're too tired. You're never interested in hearing about what I'm feeling. You act as if it's constantly an inconvenience to you.

And like, there are other people in my life who don't make me feel that way. And I don't think I should be in a relationship with someone who makes me feel that way and I've tried endlessly to try to fix that so like I'm pretty much at the end of my rope. I like it I think that feels that feels good I want it I definitely want to be honest about that and I think that that resonates a lot for me and I think that that resonates a lot for me. And I think that that would be shocking for him to hear. And like you said, not in a way that it's like, I wanna hurt him. It's just in a way that might make him understand a little bit more of like how he feels about me

is not the same way I feel about him, which should raise a flag for him, you know. All right, Was this helpful? Yes, it was very helpful. I appreciate you. Alright. Well, sorry going through this again. I appreciate your show too.

Oh, well thank you for saying. Listen, you're in a tough spot because I get it. Like, it's a lot easier if he was just a giant piece of shit or whatever. You've been through a lot together and there's a lot you love about them and there's a lot of good in this relationship but you shouldn't feel like this way most of the time. That is something to ponder. My mom will always tell me that. She's like, you just keep coming back to this, you know, because I call her like and I feel like it's like I feel like I'm going insane sometimes with how much I go back and forth because because it's like, as soon as this comes up

where I feel alone, I'm like, I wanna leave. And it's like, I tell, and I don't, I do voice it to him every time. I'm like, I wanna leave. And I feel like- There's idle threats. I'm the voice of him. Yeah.

I shouldn't do that. Like, and I, because I don't know if I really fully mean it. And it's like, now I'm sitting here talking to you about it. I'm trying to get clearer on if I mean that or not. And I feel better about knowing now, like I've tried to calm down from that and saying like, I'm gonna leave all the time threatening that

because it's like, it's not helpful. And if I really mean that, like I wanna only, I just wanna do it through my actions and just say, hey, here's what's happening, I'm leaving if that's what's gonna happen. I don't wanna have to be like, I mean, if I can get a reaction. I'll leave you with this,

but something I had to learn on my own and something I've said, and when I've done questions with Nick, I think there's language to the effect in my book. But if you break it all down at its core, people who get back together with people they have broken up with, it's mostly out of a lack of patience. At the end of the day, we break up with people because we think we can do better.

And I don't mean like from an ego standpoint, it means like if you decide to break up with them, you're doing it because you certainly hope, but, and I'm banking on the fact that you can find someone who's more emotionally willing to be in the relationship with you and you've tried that before, but then you got back together and you didn't get back together because like love you got back together because you dated one other guy and that didn't work out. And then he was available and waiting and you're like, well, okay, I guess I'll go back to him. And you lacked the patience to see it through.

You, you missed him. Uh, who you dated in between, like was actually worse than he was. I was like, all right, he's, he's worse. You have, you know, and so a product of you guys being together is your lack of patience in believing in you in what you deserve. That's just a fact. Because something caused you to end that relationship in the past. Breaking up with people that we care about is a very difficult thing to do, and yet you

got to that place. So it wasn't a mistake. There was a reason. It wasn't like out of just some sort of like flip it decision. We break up with people for valid reasons. I don't really think there's mistakes. I think there's just, we lost patience. And listen, sometimes people break up

and it's, you know, high school sweethearts or, you know, sometimes it's good to break up and sometimes we get a clearer idea. But the end of the day, whoever broke up with someone thought they could do better. And maybe they were wrong. Sometimes we realized we were wrong. But in your case, I think it's more a lack of patience. I agree with that. I definitely, I've never been alone either, which is like, I've always

gone from relationship to relationship and this is like, now that I'm out there. And this guy is your big kryptonite. He's the guy that just does it for you and just fucks you up a little bit. And sometimes that fucking you up is kind of toxic, sexy and fun all at the same time. But like, yeah, like, you know, he is a bit of a kryptonite and there is a constant theme in this relationship.

And if you don't want to be the boy who cried wolf, don't be. If you decide to leave the relationship, it's not gonna be easy. You're gonna miss him. it's gonna break your heart, you're gonna wanna come back to him, and taking him back again, God forbid, if you were to do that again,

I would hope that would be him truly fighting and showing and him actually doing shit on his own and getting there. Like he doesn't, he hasn't changed yet, so if you were to break up with them a month later, like it's not because he changed. That's the thing. He is choosing not to do things about it, right? And so often when people break up with someone

and then it's like, oh my God, I'll finally do the thing you asked me to do. They're not doing it because they changed. They're doing it because you forced their hand. That's yeah, like desperation just to get back. So just some things to think about. All right. Thank you very much.

I appreciate it. All right. Well, keep us posted. We'd love to know what you end up doing. Okay. All right. Okay. All right.

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exclusive link at trueclassic.com slash viall to save. That's trueclassic.com slash viall. Shop now and elevate your wardrobe today. How's it going? Hi, I'm Danielle, I'm 24 and my question is how do I date as a 24 year old who's never been in a relationship? Okay. Why do you feel like you don't know how? I guess it's more of a general anxiety and fear around dating.

Okay. I found it hard to meet people in person. Okay. And I'm on the dating apps, I'm on Hinge, but that's where the fear comes in. I cannot meet up with someone from Hinge. I'm on the dating apps, I'm on Hinge, but that's where the fear comes in. I cannot meet up with someone from Hinge. I'm so scared.

Okay. All right. So I don't mean to laugh, but where your, your, your fear, your fears, are they coming in and listening as a woman? Um, there are some things you have to worry about that most men maybe don't write your actual physical safety. There is that, that being said, I think there's a lot of good safe men out there and you just have to be smart about your choices

and situations you put yourself in that you can, you can maybe conquer this fear. But that aside, outside of like, you know, just general, hey, I'm a woman dating men and I need to be mindful of my safety, where are your other anxiety and fears coming from? Honestly, so I've kind of just recently started taking Hinge like more seriously before. It was kind of just like seeing what's out there

and I never really had any real intention for that fear. Like I was always like, I don't want to be meeting up with people that I don't know, but my friends have done it. So I've definitely been a little bit more eager. And I've also recently come to terms with like, I'm 24. I need to put myself out there if like I want to, you know, get into a relationship, be a person. So the fear is honestly, I don't know.

I think it's like the buildup. Like what made me write to you guys was a couple weeks ago, I'm matched with the guy on Hinge. Q, we exchanged numbers. We texted here and there. He tried to like, we both tried to like make plans, kind of fell through. And then two times I rescheduled and putting air quotes because I was so like I was sick with anxiety. Also, I feel like it's worth mentioning, I can go out to the bars and like talk to guys. I'm not anxious and that's and granted there is a little bit of alcohol, but even sober I'm fine. It's like the buildup of like, I don't know this person. I don't know how awkward it's going to be. It just, it freaks me out.

Have you ever suggested like a zoom date or? I've thought about that. Like, or even like, because he had my number, I've thought about being like, can we like FaceTime just to get like a vibe check? But I don't know. I just. What don't you know? Okay. I think maybe this also plays into it. There are, I feel like this is normal for people. I go through phases where I don't care to date, I don't really want a boyfriend, I'm like happy with my life. Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people feel like that,

so I feel like when I'm in those phases, I don't care enough to make the effort to say, oh, let's FaceTime, let's. Yeah, but that's not, the problem isn't when you aren't in the phases of wanting to be independent and single, the problem is when you're in the phases of maybe wanting to get out there,

you're incapable of doing that, right? So that's just an excuse. You're telling yourself to make yourself feel better about the fears and anxieties you have about getting out there. And also, this is really more about you developing a skill rather than whether you're ready for a husband or not, you know, or if you're interested

in having a boyfriend or not. This is about you just like developing some basic social skills for kind of breaking it down so that like you can put yourself in more advantageous situations to maybe meet a guy whenever it is you're ready to meet a guy. But even when you meet guy, listen, nowadays with all the language around dating and love bombing and things like that,

but hookup cultures never been more prominent, commitment and defining relationships never been more rare. At the same time, now we all have these new terms like gaslighting and love bombing and yada yada. Now it's like everyone out there is dating things like well, they told me this and now they change their mind and they're a love bombing narcissistic gas piece Shitting pieces of shit because like, you know, and may they tell me this and in june mean tell me that and that those two things Aren't the same so they must have been lying and manipulating me and now they're a fucking loser and I hate them and they're a narcissist And i'm just a victim of of of evil people out there and that's just not reality

The reality is is like, you know, we all are just you know, especially in our 20s a little self-centered a little confused a little unsure We're all just figuring it out. We feel things we react to them. We Process our feelings We realize that maybe our initial reaction wasn't the right reaction. You know, I've heard the phrase recently, you know, something like first feeling, second choice or something, you know.

We have a feeling we feel whenever it is, we feel something in that moment. Maybe it's the second choice or the second thought that maybe is the better thought than the first thought that comes in our head and we find out some crazy shit or whatever. You know, that just comes with maturity and things like that. So, you know, listen, like obviously I'm just kind of saying

a bunch of random shit here, but I'm just trying to offer you maybe some perspective because I think when we get in our heads, we lack perspective and then you just start coming and you start ruminating going down these rabbit holes and you psych yourself out and you start ruminating going down these rabbit holes and you psych yourself out and and you get nowhere Yeah, that's very true for me. I feel like I'm conflicted because on one hand like you're only your 20s ones I want to you know experience a lot of different things meet new people

live into the fullest but then on the other hand, it's just that fear of like I Don't know. I guess the unknown because this is something that of like, I don't know, I guess the unknown, because this is something that I've never, I don't know that side of myself that makes sense. What side? Like, I guess like, I've never been in a relationship. Honestly, I think the last guy I liked, it was in high school.

Like throughout college, I was kind of in and out, didn't really get involved work Didn't really meet anyone so and you didn't like a guy because you don't feel like you let anyone close Or you were just like honestly, I don't even remember last time I had a crush on somebody No, I can remember like little crushes but Nothing like well, I do what do you mean? What's your gut? Tell you you think you've been a little bit more avoidant or do you think you just like haven't met anyone

or you've been too busy to care? I think it's a literally a combination of all three. I think. Well, the other two parts are fine, but like my guess is you're calling in to trust whatever a part of you is that avoided part. So you can like, like you said, be a human whenever you wanna be a human.

And when you wanna be an introverted, you know, you can be that, right? You know, you have, you know, you're only 24, you know, you have a lot to figure out about life yourself. You're not just like one dimensional person. You can be multiple things at multiple different times, but this is about like you recognizing and wanting to address,

you know, a problem that you have that's stopping you from, as you, in your words, at times, feeling like a human. Stopping you from having experiences that part of you wants to try to enjoy, but like you're letting your fears, insecurities, neuroses, stop you from having those aspects of your life. Right. So when you're trying to understand your choices, you should be mindful of these internal dialogue you have because here I am listening to you. I'm a stranger to you. I don't know anything, you know, you know, and so this happens a lot when people call in, it's like, you have your question, right? Here's your main theme.

Here's what I want to help with. And then as you tell your story, you are including things that you, you're including like what I hear is like things you tell yourself from time to time. And now you're telling me. And those things you tell yourself to me are just things like they're just either excuses or these are things that I can, I can hear your inner monologue and, and how you justify choices, how you convince yourself of things, you know, things that I can hear your inner monologue and how you justify choices, how you convince yourself of things, things that we all do, right?

Yeah. And so as far as your problem that you called in for, as it relates to that, yeah, I mean, I don't care. I mean, it's not really relevant to your problem that sometimes, yeah, you're fine with being an independent woman and it's, you know, and great, that's awesome. But we need to address the part that's causing you

to avoid life. Yeah, I know it's something I need to do. Like I just need to. So what are the things, okay, we acknowledge you need to make sure you're safe. We get that, right? Yeah. But I'm guessing what's stopping you

from moving forward with these dates is less about is he gonna kill me? And more about you, all these thoughts of, I don't know what I'm gonna say, is it gonna be weird? Am I gonna feel uncomfortable? And I'm like, I'm just gonna stay home. Yeah. Right?

Yeah, exactly. Okay, so it's less about safety, but solution one, yeah, just start vibe checking them, like you said, FaceTime, Zoom date, you don't even have to give out your number, you can literally create an email that's only for online dating, it can be whatever you want,

and when you're like, hey, that's the email you share for Zooms, and that's all it is. That's the only personal information they have, is an email you give out to strangers. Yeah. So then you're safe there right and listen that's that's that's being extra cautious but you know let's say you want to give out your number chances are that's probably fine too right but a FaceTime call or a Zoom call goes a long way you get a sense of their humor you can get a better idea of what they look like,

their voice, their inflections, how do they pay attention, do they ask questions? Like, I don't know. It's also just Zoom or FaceTime, so be prepared to be wrong, but you can learn more than texts, and it's just a stepping stone. You know, that's helpful.

That being said, I think one thing, I mean, I don't know whether lipstick on a mirror or post a note to yourself, I don't know how you remind yourself, but you should write down in a journal, no one gives a fuck. Yeah. When you are going, you're debating whether you wanna go on a date with these guys, whatever questions you have

about what they might think, do or act, like who gives a fuck? They're most likely gonna only be strangers in distant memories. So who gives a fuck what they think about you? And for all the guys that you go out with and decide you don't like, who gives a fuck? Who gives a fuck what they think? I don't know, who cares? Like you were pretty, you were ugly, you were charming, you were funny, you were obnoxious. Who gives a fuck? You won't know, who cares?

It's none of your goddamn business. Yeah. And if you go in to just be, just be, and tell yourself, what I need to be is curious. Just curious, like I just wanna meet people. I don't know, maybe I'll make a friend. And focus on learning about liking them. You know, some of the basics things

I talk about all the time, but clearly clearly a lot of what you're talking about is a fear of what they might think, and you're thinking too much about what they're thinking, these strangers, my guess is, these men, and talking yourself out of it, and worried about what they're gonna think of you, and worried about if you're gonna be accepted,

and you know, who gives a fuck? You know, and if maybe you can practice the who gives a fuck little mentality in a little bit. For sure. Maybe that'll help. Yeah, I definitely have been told I care a lot of what people think of me. Okay, there you go.

And it's yeah, so there's that. And it's also like I said, just the, it's like, I do not want to put myself through what could possibly be like torturous, awkward. But I know something I have to do and like. I don't get that mentality in general. I think that mentality is more or more prevalent, but like life is pain in a lot of ways. You know, I don't.

And I say this as I've gotten older. Some of your most memorable moments as you get older and the moments you look back on fondly and the moments you learn from the most will be the moments that when they happen will be painful, will be sad, will be difficult, will be challenging. Cause that's his life. I don't know. Like no one takes all their advice from other people. Like we just don't, we have to live life, experience it, make mistakes for ourselves. And you are skipping out on a lot of aspects of life for the sake of like not putting yourself through something that you don't even know what that something is. Like, I don't know, live some life.

Get fucked up a little bit. I don't know, have someone fuck you over. I don't know. Like, yeah, you'll be sad and you'll cry and like, but you'll live, you'll deal. Like, I don't know. Right now, it sounds like you have very limited resiliency. Yeah, maybe.

And maybe you're resilient in ways that you don't realize, you know? But you are avoiding obstacles for the sake of protecting yourself. And I just wanna let you know, you might be protecting yourself in the short run, but you're definitely not protecting yourself in the long run, but you're definitely not protecting yourself in the long run because you're, you're avoiding lessons

and opportunities for growth. Yeah. Now I get you. I, I also am someone who like you talked to me, like I, I avoid things that I know will bring me discomfort pain just because I don't want to feel those things. But again, I know it's something I want to do and I want to be better at, which is obviously why I'm talking to you now. It's just a matter of like getting myself to do it. Yeah, I mean, you know, I know that that is true. You mean you kind of hit the nail on the head, you know, if you want to think of an analogy. I'm sure you've seen a lot of guys cold plunging

these days or women or whatever. It's like a new phrase and I don't think that ever gets easy, but like it's a lot easier the more you do it. And the first time you do it, boy, that first set, you're dipping your toe in that water. It was like, uh, rather not. And a lot of times you're just like, you know what? Fuck it, I don't need to be cold. I don't, you know, fuck, man.

You just gotta do it. You just gotta build up the fucking guts and you just gotta do it. And you gotta tell yourself rationally, your rational brain has to take over and say I feel all these things, I acknowledge my feelings, yes I'm scared but rationally I know that I'm being irrational. You gotta understand the difference between being scared and being in danger. That's something I was kind of reinforced in my brain when I did that show

Special Forces, you know you're hanging from the sky and walking, and scary shit, but like I was safe. I was all strapped, I was scared. It was scary to do that shit, but I was never really in any danger. And that's a lesson you have to learn. So you can, and I could have been scared. I can have told myself, oh, I got a kid on the way.

I shouldn't be doing this stuff. And the reality is I had to conquer a fear. So when you get worked up and you get, you know, you got to check yourself and look in the mirror and call yourself out and be like, all right, I'm doing the thing. You know, using that analogy of special forces, you know, there was this thing called the leopard rock walk, right? And it was just basically this rope that was connected between one mountain to another and below it was, I don't know, like a mile deep.

And I had to crawl on the rope across, right? Now granted, I was very safe. I was all hooked up to safety things and I could have jumped off and been totally fine. And eventually that's exactly what happened. And when I did it, I didn't do it because I didn't get to the beginning of that rope and then figure out how to be not scared.

I did it while being scared. I just did it and, you know. So you're, right now, you get these dates and you plan these dates and you get psyched out and then you're trying to convince yourself not to be scared. And then you don't and so you flake. You have to get to out and then you're trying to convince yourself not to be scared. And then you don't. And so you flake. You have to get to the point where you're still

scared and you do it anyways, because your rational brain says, listen, like we've, we've, he looks normal. We've done a zoom date. I've chosen a public place. Like, like, like basic shit, just to make sure you're okay. It might be a bad date. He might be weird. I might be awkward. It might go terrible, but honestly, like that's not going to hurt me.

I'm going to be okay. So let's just go and fucking do this shit and give yourself the grace to not be perfect and not have them like you and, and, and know that the first time doing anything, it's not gonna be great at it. So don't go in there with the expectation that you're gonna be perfect. And just see what the fuck happens.

One bit of advice is I wouldn't let the first guy you wanna date with know it's your first date. Just don't make it a thing. Stop, you know, don't. Yeah. He doesn't need to know. Doesn't matter. Okay, yeah. Like, you know, just, and just try to have fun.

You know, just, you know, when I, again, back to the silly, it's a special forces analogy, like it is exhilarating to face a fear. And when I was still scared as fuck when it did that, but I was like, I know I'm scared, but I know I'm gonna like, it's gonna be fucking wild. So like, I decided to have fun. Then that was a choice.

I could just make a choice and say, I'm gonna do this shit. I'm scared, but fuck it. I'm gonna have some fun. And you can't, you're capable of doing that. You just haven't decided to do it yet. Yeah. Totally.

Does that make sense? Is this helpful? Am I just- Yeah, for sure. It definitely is. It feels good having it come from someone else because I talk to my sister, I talk to my friends to try and like,

not hold me accountable, but just like I'll tell them and every time I'm like, sorry, I couldn't do it. Listen, you'll do it when you're ready. Yeah. Just know, and that's, you know, I could say that and you could, you know, you could use that as a excuse to push back

on these people trying to like motivate you can be like, I'll do it when I'm ready. Yeah. Sure. But like, you know, but just know that you are costing yourself right now. You are costing yourself good times, valuable lessons. You are, you have fallen behind your peers. You know, you'll live, you'll get through it.

You're still relatively young, but like there's a cost. And when you are ready to stop falling behind, when you're ready to stop missing out, you'll, you'll do it. But I would start being your own toughest critic instead of your friends. And I would try to challenge yourself to not talk yourself into quitting and being too scared and just jump in the fucking pool. Yeah, for sure. And know that it won't be perfect.

It won't be, you know, be like, here we go. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I do definitely get disappointed in myself when I do that, because I'm like in my head, I'm like, OK, it's a week away. I'll do it. I'll be fine. And then like the day before or the day I've come to my way, just out of curiosity, what what what is the what is the most common

recurring thought that you have that sikes you out? Honestly, it really is just the potential of it being extremely awkward, challenged to talk to him. Ask questions. Yeah, yeah, no that's true. Just be curious. Be somewhat of an open book. Yeah. You know, you can ask a lot of questions and they, you know, listen if you go in there being, you know, do you like work? He hates it. He likes it. I don't know. Follow questions. Oh, that's really cool. You know, just give a shit. Pretend to

care. Yeah. And then maybe you find out you will. If you go on a day and you pretend to care and this guy's like, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, no, doesn't elaborate just give you one word answers. Yeah, you'll know quickly. Like, yeah, I don't know. He's just and word answers. Yeah. You'll know quickly. Like, yeah, I don't know. He's just, and then maybe he'll be nervous too, or he won't, you know, like, it's just not going to go perfect. So just, just be curious and be open to it's just a day, you know, no one's watching. No one's judging.

No one's measuring. Yeah. There's no awards being handed out. Get nothing to lose. Yeah. You know, they're handed out, get nothing to lose. Yeah. You know, they're meant to be a little awkward. Just try it out. Yeah, definitely will.

I just need to, like you said, do it anyways, because I'll overthink and overthink. And then- Stop planning it a week ahead. Okay, yeah. Okay, yeah, no, no, because that is so true, because there will be times where like, I'm like, oh, I don't have plans.

Like I would love to like do something or tomorrow, you know what I mean? Like go on a date, like that would be fun. But then I'm like, I don't really have, I don't know who to ask. Literally, I mean, at this point, you literally just go on the app and just ask anyone. This is not about meeting your guy. This is about you like learning how to meet strangers. Yeah. And so it doesn't matter the stranger. Honestly, it might be better for you to go on a guy that you're not as you're like, I'm not even

interested in this guy. I don't even find that attractive practice. Yeah, that's, that's a good point. And also, I just, when you said that, it reminded me of something. I feel like that is also where a fear comes from. If I match with a guy on Hinge, and I don't give my number out a lot, but here and there, and we text for a day or two, I feel like I have... It's just a mental thing. I feel safer. I don't, obviously there's no like,

nothing logical behind that other than just my brain versus meeting someone directly on the app. I don't know why it feels like more of a stranger to me. That's just a me problem, but that definitely is something else of that. Well, meeting someone on the app is more of a stranger. Yeah. Well, I mean I mean yeah I just

like I need that like well like you said I could do FaceTime. Yeah I mean yeah listen meeting someone the app is literally just a stranger it's just like random fucking people saying I'm single. Yeah. You know and you meet some at your bar that yeah there's so much less of a stranger there's immediate rapport you see him in the wild you see what they look like you see their voice you see what they look like, you see their voice, you see how they treat other people around them, there's so much more. That's why jumping on a FaceTime or a Zoom,

you can learn so much more about these strangers on the internet that will hopefully just give you a little bit more of a reason to, and you can, you can just be like, listen, I don't like meeting strangers or whatever, but like, I definitely, like, and you say it, like, as a confident woman, just be like, yeah, like, I just, I like doing a vibe check. Yeah.

You know, if guys say no to that, then great, that's weird for them, why would they say no to Yeah. something cool, you know? And when people say things like, that's weird, don't let it get in your head. Them saying that's weird is this, that just says that's different than I'm used to and I'm not used to different.

And so I'm gonna call it weird to make you feel a certain way about me not liking something that you're comfortable with. Yeah. With this mental game. So like someone calling, you know, so like if someone calls something weird, let it be weird for them.

Not weird for you. Yeah, totally. You know, so if I were you baby steps, try going on the apps and try having a couple zoom slash FaceTime dates. Let's try it out. Practice. Okay. They don't need to know you're practicing. Yeah.

And when you practice, be like, yeah, I just want to, you know, Hey, I've never done this before. The guy will say, and you're like, yeah, well, you know, it's just honestly meeting. And you say like, listen, you know, like honestly meeting strangers, it's always fucking exhausting. And I don't know, I've an athlete, you know, just, I just read it. I just kind of want to do a vibe check, you know, and you know, you know, instead of what do you, what do you do for work and what are you doing this week? And just over a text, just do that over Zoom.

And if anyone at any point is like, oh, this guy's not the worst to talk to, just be like, I don't know, do you wanna grab a coffee? Yeah. You know, and just go from there. And again, just remind yourself, I am not doing it, there's no stakes here. I'm just meeting people.

Very, very kind of open-ended, very cash, very whatever. Kind of a personal question, but I'm just curious how this is playing a role. Are you limited, like you haven't, have you had boyfriends, like what's your, are you part, like, have you had boyfriends? Like, what's your, like, are you part, are you very, are you a virgin? Yeah. Okay, all right, that's basic.

But yeah, and I would say that subconsciously, it's subconsciously definitely plays a role, but at the same time, like, I know who I am and I know that I wouldn't, like, I don't wanna say subtle, but like but if someone made me feel bad for that, I know it's no reflection of me, if that makes sense. It wouldn't bother me. Yeah, okay, that's a lie.

It probably would bother me, but that's not something that's necessarily stopping me because I know for the right guy, it'd be fine. And is this more, is this a religious thing? Is this like, you just, you know, you just are? Yeah, just saying, like I just never found, yeah. Well, I guess just don't, like whenever you want to, you will, whenever it feels right, you will.

But like just, my advice to you on that is don't make it more special than it needs to be. Respect it because it is a very powerful thing that most people don't make it more special than it needs to be. Respect it because it is a very powerful thing that most people don't respect. But like, I think it's just a weird thing in 2024. Religion and other reasons you're making decisions aside, but for someone like you, I hope it's not the most memorable sex you ever have.

And I certainly hope it's not the most memorable sex you ever have. I certainly hope it's not the most special sex you ever have. So just, that's it. But yeah, it sounds like it's not really having that much in effect in your dating life. I'm sure, like, let's like everything. Everything is a, everything works together, on some level, but I don't think these men

need to know much about that until you really feel comfortable with someone that you're dating and, you know, until then, you don't, I would be, this is a, you dating and you going out and meeting people is about you learning about them, not the other way around. It is their job to be curious about you and you can gauge your interest in them by how curious they are in you, but don't let their lack of curiosity trigger your ego and chase them for validation. Yeah, for sure. That definitely is.

Because I want to date because I want to experience it, learn who I am in that aspect of my life, not necessarily to get a boyfriend right now, or it's more so just for the experience of it all until I guess learn more about myself and experience things that I have not before. So yeah. All right, well just, you know.

The final thoughts, I think it's about your general mindset and changing that mindset to be adventurous. It's really just about that. This is not about losing your virginity, it's not about finding a boyfriend. This is about getting better at meeting people and learning about people. It's also learning a little bit about yourself.

What do you learn about yourself when you're meeting these people? Like, what do you find yourself being drawn to? Those are questions you ask yourself after dates, you know? And just be open to learning. Face your fears. The biggest thing is, if you can say the thing, I'm not gonna do it, because I don't wanna feel that,

then know that you need to do that thing. That is your big, like the bat signal that says you're avoiding this thing irrationally out of fears that are just fears. And when I need to just do it, because you need to feel these things, it's part of life. Yeah, I agree, I'll do it. First step is a FaceTime

date. Make it simple. And let's just, you know, maybe you want to do 10 of those before you actually do a real date, but just make sure you're making some kind of progress, you know, and challenge yourself to like extend your comfort zone a little bit at a time. This was definitely helpful and encouraging. Great. Well, follow up this was definitely helpful. Okay. And encouraging. Great. Well, follow up, we're going to follow up with you like in a month. And hopefully, hopefully by then you'll have at least gone on a zoom date, but hopefully a real person date.

And I think the biggest thing is again, it literally doesn't matter who just make sure they have a heartbeat. Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. And they seem safe. Yeah, for sure. Okay. Okay. All right. And they seem safe. Yeah, for sure. Okay. Okay.

All right. Take care. All right. Thank you so much. Bye bye. Bye.