The Viall Files - E911 Going Deeper – Tom Sandoval and Victoria Lee Robinson

Episode Date: April 2, 2025

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper edition.  He’s back! Tom Sandoval returns with his girlfriend Victoria Lee Robinson to get into the past year of his life. Has he grown? Has he changed? Has he learned anything along the way? You’ll have to tune in to find out! “I don’t want to get into the past...”  Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  Are you struggling with any sort of dating, relationship, or life dilemma? Do you want all the answers? Email [e-mail] with your question in the subject line to express interest in appearing on the show!  To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   Thank You to Our Sponsors: Mint Mobile - No matter how you say it, don’t overpay for it. Shop data plans at https://mintmobile.com/viall Revolve - For a limited time, you can shop a curated selection of our favorite styles at https://revolve.com/viall and receive 15% off your first order with code VIALL. Shipstation - Calm the chaos of order fulfillment with the shipping software that delivers. Switch to ShipStation today. Go to https://shipstation.com and use code VIALLFILES to sign up for your FREE trial. Timestamps: (00:01) - Intro (00:56) - Last Time (04:09) - How Did You Meet (12:11) - Victoria Discovers Scandoval (21:46) - Bad Habits (28:57) - Cheat That Way (31:28) - Learning From Past (38:32) - Traitors (42:28) - Glowing Skin (44:09) - Schwartz (47:55) - The Future (50:25) - Vanderpump Is Toxic? (52:26) - James (54:35) - Jax (59:00) - Moving On (01:00:58) - First Date (01:04:04) - Past Boyfriends (01:06:07) - Castmates (01:09:31) - Next Steps (01:10:08) - Chrishell (01:18:39) - Outro Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @tomsandoval1 @victorialeerobinson @ciaracrobinson @justinkaphillips  @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell

You're crazy. You guys ready? Should we cheers first? Let's cheers. Yes. Tom. Cheers. Welcome back, Victoria. Welcome to the Vile Falls. Thanks for having me back. Great to have you guys back. Cheers, let's take a sip.

This is Tom's. Yes. It's called Tom's. It's called Tom's. Tom's Good Lovin'. Brought to you by the good men of Tom Schwartz and Tom Sandoval. Yes, it's a port blended bourbon.

Oh my god, it's strong. Oh, it's 90% Wow. It's a good tiny sip. It's good. Right? It's good. It's smooth, right? You feel like you taste the

pork finish on the end? I gotta say, I'm not a connoisseur. It's very good though. Thank you, man. I appreciate that. I'd absolutely drink it. I will absolutely drink it. I am absolutely drinking it. Tom, I'm really excited to have you here. I was a little nervous coming back here. Yeah, I would imagine. I honestly thought there was no way

you would come back on this show. It took some convincing on your part and Dylan helped, Dylan Efron. He definitely helped. That was, we appreciate Dylan, yeah. Yeah, I think a lot of people will be surprised to see you here as well. Good, we like surprises, right?

We do like surprises. Do you wanna talk about the first episode at all? Man, that was a lot. I was going through a lot, obviously. I was in a very different place in my life. And yeah, I mean, first off, I know that we had talked, like it was my fault. Like we had texted that we were, you know.

I'm glad you acknowledged that. No, it was, fully. I was actually there right before he showed up. Like I was with him. Oh, you were? You guys were dating then? Yeah, I was with him. before he showed up. Like I was with him. Oh, you were? You guys were dating then? Yeah, I was with him. He had no clue.

He had a podcast. I actually asked him, because he was full on bawling his eyes out right before he even saw you, because he was talking to me about his friend, Ali. And you mentioned that on the show. I'm actually wearing Ali's shirt. And we had a night, we had a long night.

And yeah, I asked him the night before and I was like, do you have anything tomorrow? He goes, no, no, I'm good. And then all of a sudden call comes and I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? I'm like, this could not be more terrible. What happened was, is I had a Google calendar with my manager and we had set up a date for me to come in here

and then you texted me like, you know, I don't know, a few days, five days earlier to change the date, but you had texted me directly. And so it didn't go on my Google calendar, but I was like, no, it's fine. It's fine, it was my fault. I did text you like several times just to remind you. Okay.

Okay. I didn't, I didn't. Listen, we're here now. We're here now. That's all that matters. It was quite the episode. Yeah, it was. I had been up, we had gone out.

I'd been up all night. You process grief at different times. And at that point, that was one of the first times it really hit me that like About my friend, you know emotionally and mentally about everything with my friend Ali Who who had passed away and it just was like I was just up all night just like sobbing and like Just like talking about him. I was like really sad because Obviously, I was like I really liked her and I really wanted her to meet him and like

Just that whole such, you know, just all of it It was the first time he ever poured his heart out like ever even spoke about him to me Oh really and so if you notice on your podcast his eyes are super puffy. It was just from crying Yeah, and anyways rated at all. Oh, no, I mean, I was drinking. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Okay. was... You weren't inebriated at all? Oh no, I mean I've been drinking. Oh, he was drinking. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. We had both been drinking. If I would have known, I would have been like, no, we're going to bed. Oh, I mean I would have too. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I completely forgot. How long was that? Wait, what's over a year ago? Yeah. So it was in January, I know that. You've come a long way. Thanks, man. Yeah, I feel like I have. I actually wasn't even planning on drinking this week,

but you're like, let's open the bottles. I was like, all right. Okay, all right. How did you guys meet in the first place? We met through a friend. It's kind of funny. My friend, she was like, oh, do you wanna go to this show?

And I'm being honest, I looked at the phone on YouTube. Tom Sandable in the Most Extras. Most Extras. And I'm just being honest, I looked at the phone on YouTube. Tom Sandable and the most extras. And I'm just being honest, I was like, do I really have to go to this? Like, come on. Because I was just, I'm sorry. It wasn't the best video, it wasn't the best clip

that they could have shown me. But then, I mean, I show up, I go there, and I swear, I'm almost front row, just like, woo! Like, I'm like, it's so much better in person, first off. And then now I'm like, here I am, I have no idea how this happened. So you went to his, you're kinda like, and I say this with love and kind of fun,

but like, you're kinda like a, What? Like, groupie, you know? No, I'm kidding. I didn't actually. No, not, but like, you went to his show, and you met the star of the show. My friend actually liked him at the time.

Don't worry. You stole him. No. No, I'm not. I'm far from him. When you went to the show, like and someone's like, let's go to the show and it says Tom Sandoval in the most extras,

like how aware of like, not that I'm not trying to get into Sandoval here, but how aware of Sandoval were you? Zero percent, zero percent. You had no idea. Give me a lie detector test. I don't care who believes me, who does not. I had no clue.

I mean, to be honest, like be for real, like he probably wishes that I knew about the scandal beforehand because I'm finding things out in real time. I'm going through my phone, my algorithms fully changed. Well, in past tense. And I'm like, during the relationship, I'm looking over, I'm like, just giving a dirty look. And he's like, what did I do?

And I'm like, you did what? Where? Are you fucking kidding me? What if you would have known how would that what do you think that would have done? I mean, I would have not thought the same about him whatsoever. Like I got to know him not knowing anything and hearing his sides of whatever. And like I said, I've definitely seen not so great things that if anything, the nicest way I could say this, if I was the other girl, if I was his ex

and there was a little secret camera, I'd definitely feel like I've been his karma. Just meaning like I've given him a lot of shit. Yeah, because I'm a girl and like I've never cheated in my entire life. I would never be a home wrecker. And I just, I'm not for any of that. And he, I think he was matched with me for a reason

because he has grown so much. I'm so proud of him. I really am. And you know, I think that he needed a little, little touch. She kicks my ass. Cause it's like, you know. I don't anymore.

I had to stop. If she would have seen everything that happened, you know, it's like time goes by, you get over it. You've been there, done that. But it's like, as I would have almost rather her have done that, you know, had that. But it's like, I would have almost rather her have done that, you know, had that happen, you know, beforehand, because then it's like, you know,

we're getting deeper into the relationship, and it's like, oh, she's seeing this, somebody sent her this, somebody tagged her on this, somebody, and it's like, it's like. Well, and it scares the shit out of me. Yeah, of course, I fully understand. It must have been pretty overwhelming, yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, the person I'm fully in love with,

and I'm just looking at him like, I can't... How shortly after you go to the show, you meet him? Yeah, I wanna, because we kind of breezed over that. Yeah. So she came to the show, and then I had to leave right away, because we were filming our finale, it was season 11 finale, in San Francisco, Cal Chan's event. So I had to leave right away because we were filming our finale, it was season 11 finale in San Francisco, Cal Chan's event, so I had to leave directly after that. I never even met her that night.

And then cut to our premiere part, our premiere of Special Forces. So do you, were you there, I'm trying to remember, were you there at Craig's? Yeah. Yeah, you were there, right? Yes, okay. So do you remember two girls coming up and- Oh, you were there? I'm trying to remember. Were you there at Craig's? Yeah. Yeah, you were there, right? Yes. Okay. So do you remember two girls coming up and... Oh, he was... you were there? Oh, wait.

With JoJo Siwa? We... after dinner we left. Pretty quickly? Yeah. So they... so her and her friend came towards the end and they knocked on the door because she recognized me from... Well, like I said, my friend... No. My friend liked him. Or from, yeah, from the most extra show that she went to.

She was like, oh, that's that guy that you, whatever. And so... That your friend was into. So my friend had a crush on him. They didn't really know each other or anything. Did your friend know about... No, she didn't know. No.

Oh, really? Her friend did. She was telling her about it. Does that make sense? So somebody's mom told our another mutual friend. Does this make sense? Yeah Yeah, so we were a group of three friends She did not know about it the other ones mom told the other girl which told her you know And I'm I'm dating this other guy at the time. I'm not paying attention like I fully was dating another guy

boyfriend and girlfriend or just dating just dating but like we fully was dating another guy. Like boyfriend and girlfriend or just dating? Just dating, but like we were dating and dating. Okay. So that night at Craig's, I was like, go say something. He's right there, he's just a normal person. Just say something. And then so I walked her over because I was trying to help her out, you know? And-

We all ended up hanging out afterwards. I don't know if you remember, I was like, hey, you guys wanna go do like karaoke or something? I do remember something about karaoke being mentioned. Yeah, and like JoJo was kinda into it, there was a couple other people that were into it. I was like, do you wanna come with us or meet us over there?

And we went to Saddle Ranch and then nobody ended up showing up, so it was just the three of us. And so we hung out and we ended up like hanging out and like just, we had a great night, but it was pretty obvious like I wasn't into her friend and I was not that I was into her anything I just was like we're just having a good time. It's very casual and then like Months went by like we're talking like end of October. You can rewind there like so she my friend tried to kiss him Sorry like end of October. Well, you can rewind there. So she, my friend tried to kiss him.

Sorry. Tried to kiss him and he just panicked and shoves like a candle of him and Schwartz. Like some, what was that? Oh, there's these like church candles that we have that are like Schwartz is Joseph and me is like baby Jesus in his arms. So like sacrilegious. Yeah.

And what he does, he just panics and looks down and goes, you want a candle? They're like, I didn't make them. Why didn't you have a candle with you? Somebody made these candles. We would sell them at TomTom because I had the TomTom clock. It's a funny, it's a spoof candle.

Gotcha. And so I just was like, oh yeah, do you want a candle? And like, I don't know. I kind of panicked. I wasn't like, my mindset was not there. And then on the car on the way back home, because I was taking her home, I was like, I don't think that he really likes you.

And she was like, no shit, he gave me a candle. And then she started dating another guy. And months went by, then we hung out on Halloween. And on Halloween, I broke it off with my guy. Okay, okay, on. That was on a whole. Like you were hanging out with Tom, you just called him on by like,

while you were hanging out with Tom, you ended it? So the first night we actually like really hung out. Like before then, and when me and the other girl and him would hang out, him and I would vibe more, like because we listened to the same music, and she listens to completely different music music and I bond with people on music Like but it was more of like whenever I have a girlfriend that likes a guy I bro them out

I'm like, what's up, dude? Like whatever like I'm very respectful and we were I think of Tom like that at all Like whatsoever, but I think like the music like, you know getting to know him like not hearing about all the stuff That he did in the past. Like, he's a good guy. We, yeah. Yeah. And then months went by before we actually, like, we were friends at first, so we hung out on Halloween. Nothing happened. And then, like, you know, a while went by, and then finally we slowly just kind of, yeah.

I got the okay. I was like, hey, is this weird? And she was like, no, not at all. I'm fully in love with my boyfriend, I don't care. By that point, it'd probably been like five months. So at what point did you find out about Scandival? Was it before this? So we started hanging out, and he's, you know, he would get drunk, because we'd go out and stuff,

and he would get drunk, and he would be in his feelings. And also, I started hanging out with him when all of these bombs started coming in. It's like, once we started spending the night with each other or whatever, I'm waking up, what now? What now? Oh my God, what's this morning?

And I'm like. That was very, I mean. It was very heavy. I was waking up daily to like stuff. Like it just was, it was never ending. And yeah, it was rough obviously. How did you, I mean, despite whatever your critics or whatever, but you know, whether people think

you deserved it or not, the hate that you received, the harassment that you received, like how did you deal with that? Because it's, I mean it's, it was heavy man. It was... At first I was drinking like crazy. Okay. And then I realized like this is a, I mean even leading up to all of that I was drinking all the time, like almost pretty much every day, all day.

And just like constantly just numbing myself to my life and shit. And anyways, and then post, you know, after that didn't stop. And then finally, I was like, there's so many things that I can't help, you know, like I can't help like all of these things. But there's certain things I can control. And so I stopped drinking, I stopped smoking cigarettes. I just started working out and just like focusing on all the things that I could actually do that made me feel better. I started doing guided meditation. I was seeing a therapist just kept busy.

And honestly, like we had a tour dates booked, like, you know, from when this, like before this, all this broke, you know, and I had to go out and do that. I look back, it is a very empowering moment and for myself because I had to walk out with people that had scumbag and cheaters and one with a mustache and all this shit in the audience, wondering like, what the fuck they're gonna see when they like come, you know, come out there. Like why they're, they're just here to witness Whatever it is spectacle the spectacle of it all and I had to like go out there Stone sober look at these people in their fucking eyeballs and be a lead singer of a cover band like I It was it was like bungee jumping every show and but I'm so glad that I did it I had people telling me cancel it, cancel it.

If we would have canceled these shows, the band would have dissolved and it never would have, it would have been done. And I would not have gotten anywhere, but it was like, no, I need to like face it, go for it and do it. And I'm so glad that I did because these people would show up wanting to like hate or bring signs

or whatever, and then they would end up just having such a blast and like Rocking out and then like, you know as they're leaving maybe like post a quick video of them being like yeah Fuck you sand of all. Yeah, you suck but like they actually had a great time. You know what I mean? No, I know the record we did not have fun here. Okay, I've seen that happen I've seen that happen so many times where they'll be like jumping out the mirror like take my phone, please, please Like this guy No for different reasons when I was the villain on the bachelor

I definitely had people who like asked for a selfie were super nice and then would like go online and talk shit Yeah, so I do want to point out for For any potential haters and trolls out there, they love a timeline, you said Special Forces premiere, and technically it wasn't the premiere, because I don't want people to be like, oh, you Halloween, I think because it premiered,

I forgot when it premiered, but that was the day we all, the cast, got together for the first time. It was like the press. Yeah, it was like the press junket for it. So that was before the premier. So I don't, you know. Okay.

I don't want people to call you guys out on timelines if all of a sudden it was like, oh, that was before. No, good, I'm good. I don't, you know, please. Yeah, no, no. I just want to protect you guys in that department. So what was that like for you?

I mean, when, I mean, I know you, so you heard about Scandival, the world hates him, everyone's just like, don't date this guy. I have said things, you know, I've. You said a lot. I've said a lot. You know, we talk about reality TV on this show. I've spent a week with Tom on Special Forces.

It was a very interesting time. You know, like everyone else, he was like America's number one villain, and I had no idea about Tom. Like everyone in that cast, everyone bonded. And it was just like. Wait, you had no idea about me? No, no, no.

Oh, oh. Not the person. Oh, oh, okay. Like I knew Scandival, I knew about you as the character, but I never met you. And we always say that. When we talk about people on TV, it's just like there's an edit,

we don't know these people. Like I'm definitely, allow myself to be wrong about my opinions that I say on the show. If I have never met them in person, like I definitely don't always believe the edit, so to speak. That's what I mean by that. But, you know, since then, you know,

like I got to know Tom a little bit, you know, for his strengths and his weaknesses and things like that. I forgot where I was going with this, but yeah. Well, I guess the point was, is this like, you know. I'm glad you can say that, because that happens with me sometimes. Yeah.

I'm just like, where was I doing with this? But I guess, and I've said this on this show multiple times. Like, and I'll, you know, I say, like Tom, I'm very critical of, I don't even know if you're friends with him, Jax Taylor. Yeah. And I've said this on the show, so I'll say it to your face.

I said, I'll say the difference between Jax Taylor and Tom Sandoval is I think Tom actually wants to be a good person. Whether you think he is or not, whether you agree with his moral compass or not, I think there's a sincere effort where I don't think Jax Taylor gives a shit. I honestly don't know if there's a human being inside there. Oh, there's definitely a human being inside there. Oh, there's definitely a human being. And, you know, I know, look, me and Jax are very different people, but, you know, there is a human being in there.

He's just a different kind of dude, but I do understand why you would think that. I understand why you would think that. Yeah, I mean, yeah. And again, I know better than you. I would think the same thing. I know him a little bit, but I know you better. And for example, when I say moral,

I don't think we have the same moral compass. I think there's, no one does to a certain extent. But you have different rules, and I have different rules. We all have different rules and boundaries, whatever. But I think a lot of criticism, this is back to my direct question for Victoria. I think most people, even if they were like meeting Tom and they would say,

you know what, I don't know. It's like I met him, not a bad guy, but like, I don't know if I let him date my sister type of thing, you know? It's like, yeah, sure. I'll hang out with the guy. He's a good hang. He's a good friend, but I don't know if I would trust, I wouldn't introduce him to my sister

or a friend that's a girl. And so I'm sure you heard stuff like that. How did you process that? And how much did you kind of, we've all been the person who wants to change someone, that wants to fix someone, that wants to be like, you know what? Yeah, maybe they were bad before me,

but I will turn them around. Fix them. Fix them. Like how did you wrestle with those criticisms, those voices, maybe those even internal thoughts? Like how did you deal with that and kind of get through that so that your relationship could have a fair shot? Well, we've both been in therapy

and I've obviously had to talk to my therapist about this. Okay. And, cause it is hard, it's really hard, and I've obviously had to talk to my therapist about this. Because it is hard, it's really hard, going online and hearing people thinking that I'm some dumb, naive girl, or that I'm dying to be on the show, or whatever else, I've heard it all. Or just like-

Yeah, I think generally speaking, the internet just assumed you had alternative modes. Yeah. We got into therapy very early on in our- As a couple? As a couple. Yes. Because I wanted to develop good-

Couples and individuals. Because I was like, hey, you know, we should do, cause I was like, we really love each other. So, and my mom actually suggested that. She was like, you guys should like start therapy now to kind of prevent anything in the future. You know? And I was like, that guys should start therapy now to kind of prevent anything in the future. And I was like, that's a really good idea. Develop good habits now before they go,

you develop bad habits for a long time and then you have to unlearn those bad habits. And going back to where I was saying, me seeing something online and giving him a little shit. I can't do that forever. I can't hang on to that, I can't always do that. I gotta let him grow and that's, me doing that is like gonna stop that,

do you know what I'm saying? Can you move on? No, totally, it's a total defense mechanism, right? I also don't wanna. It's like it's you kind of making sure, I mean, I'm scared. She just, I don't know, interpreting. She fucking checks me, dog.

Well, that's what I'm saying, though. For real. What I'm saying, like, if anyone who, we've all given people second chances, right? Friends, people we're in relationships with, strangers, you know, people, you know, a second chance for you would have been like, you met this guy, then you find out,

oh my God, the internet hates him. He cheated on his ex-girlfriend, yada yada. I'm assuming like you're saying, you're probably giving them shit because it's like, I don't know, you barely know the guy. It's a new relationship and you probably, you know, listen, if you weren't at least like one eye open, so to speak,

that would've been kind of foolish on your part, right? Like you were taking a risk on a guy that maybe, well it was a risk, right? And now I fully know, now I'm like, okay, well now I'm fully in it, he's my pain in the ass. Like now I, no, and like, all right, this is my pain in the ass I can deal with it I got it. So can I ask you Tom what are some bad habits that you've

been able to unlearn? I can just tell you that the way I approach relationships is completely different than what it's been in my entire previous of my life and one thing about everything that I went through and put myself through in the situation I put myself in is that I have to put myself and get myself to a position where I feel like I deserve somebody like her. And you know there's all these people that are like, oh I'm gonna fix him, I'm gonna fix him. It's not about her fixing me. I mean obviously I'm all ears and I listen to her and when things bother her because sometimes

they're just old, like stupid nonchalant things that you don't really think about that affect a relationship. But it really comes down to the person. It comes down to me wanting to, you know, earn her love and wanting to be the best I can be and also feeling like, in a sense of really guilty in the way that I've been in the past and wanting to be a better person

and being really motivated to do so. And a lot of the things that I've changed in my life is like, I don't go out, I don't go out drinking anymore like the way that I used to, I'm not out all the time, like to all hours of the night, I don't do that shit. Also like, you know, it's been frustrating to me that like the shit that she has to, I feel very guilty about it,

the shit that she constantly has to deal with because of me and because of my fuck up and my mistakes and bad choices. And I don't like to say mistakes, by the way. I like to say bad choices because mistakes is like accidentally getting into a car accident. Bad choices is ownership and I have to take ownership of what I did. It's like a new time. I'm just saying that like I Do feel bad about the shit that she has to deal with it's it's not fair to her But I also just want to say like if people could just please be respectful of my girlfriend and our relationship and our committed

Relationship I'm in a committed loving awesome relationship. Like this of my girlfriend and our relationship and our committed relationship. I'm in a committed, loving, awesome relationship. Like this is my person and you know, people, girls can be a little like whatever, disrespectful and I just want people to like please respect my relationship and where I'm at in my life. Like I'm serious about where I'm going, what I wanna do, our future. We have goals, we have things we wanna do together,

and I'm all about it, and I'm 100% in. I think that a part of the reason why so many women feel that they could so easily disrespect me, let's say we're at a show or something, girls will come up and just try to be all over him, or try to kiss him or whatever. And I'm just sitting right there. And I'm like.

Do they know you're there? They know I'm right there. And she gets pissed. Or they don't. Sometimes they don't, sometimes they do. But I think that's coming from what he did in his past. If I weren't his girlfriend, and knowing everything that happened in the past,

I'd look at him like, oh, well, can you do it again? So. Yeah, they're all trying to bait him, I'm sure. Yeah. I had somebody DM me literally very recently saying, hey, can you come to my wedding? I have lots of hot friends. I'm just like, are you fucking kidding me with that shit?

You're a very hot guy. You're beautiful. You're a fucking beautiful girl. Come get the fuck out of here. Look who's talking. Very hot guy or beautiful beautiful Fuck out of here look who's talking but like but We'll tell you some stories Think you like door number two Obama's I even saying guys.

Sorry, Victoria, we know how much I've drank. I literally have like a simple whiskey. You'll have one drink now because I have this role. I'm like, no drinking before podcasts. No, no drinking before like carpets or this or that, because it automatically it actually goes to his face like to where like no Do you say data or data well at my house we say data and for the longest time I thought paying a fortune for My monthly data plan was just normal that was until I found out that meant mobile and their premium wires plans that start at Just 15 bucks a month.

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and receive 15% off your first order with code viall. That's revolve.com slash viall to shop my top picks and get 15% off your first order with code viall. Offer ends April 16th, so don't miss out. Do you remember the line, I wouldn't cheat that way? Is that from a country song or what? That was from, well, I think we did make it into a song. It was on this podcast. Oh God, are you cherry picking things?

No, no, listen, I'm really impressed with the, I don't like to call it mistakes. I like to call it bad choices. Well yeah, mistakes is not taking ownership. Mistakes is a car accident. That's a 360 degree different person than the person that was here on this podcast last time. But the reason I wanted to ask you that is because you know and on Special Forces when we talked

about the whole situation and why I think that whole thing kind of went as long as it did and perpetuated and it kind of felt like every time whether it was this podcast or Howie's or whatever you just got like more and more heat, right? And a lot of it was, you know, and I get it, like you were just, whether you were trying to explain yourself or other people thought you were justifying yourself, then that's what's so different about the mistakes versus bad choices is like you were talking about how clearly whatever was going on that past relationship, you felt like your needs weren't being met. I don't think either one of ours were.

Sure, sure. But it felt like a lot of people were saying, when you were talking that way, people were taking it as you kind of making excuses. So when we were talking, I remember at Special Forces and I was asking you, can you at least say, well, I would never do this again.

And you were kind of resistant to saying that. The reason why I was resistant to you, Nick, is because you came in all Dr. Phil, and I was warned about you going into special forces. By who? By my publicist. Okay. I was warned. This one? No, no, different publicist.

I was warned about you. Like I was told that you were gonna like that You had talked a lot of shit like dragged me. Okay, that's true and And that you were gonna try you were gonna take the he's like just wait he's gonna try to take the opportunity to dr. Phil you and the reason why I Wouldn't make that commitment is because you wanted me to make a vow to you. A vow? No.

No, you said that. You literally said- I didn't say make a vow to me. Yes, you did. You said make a promise to me, Nick Viall, to never cheat again. I'm like, dude, I'm not making any sort of like vow to you, Nick. Okay. Agree to disagree. But that's not really the point. No, that's why you asked me to make a vow to you, dude. All right, fair enough. But I'm just saying, like, you guys are in couples therapy

and all these things, right? And I guess I'm just curious, is like, have you guys talked about, like, your relationship's relatively young, still very, I mean, it's been a year or so, you guys clearly are connecting, clearly in love. Like have you guys talked about when things get bumpy or rocky, how are you gonna communicate with each other,

right, and work through things, so it doesn't get to a point where, not to again, relitigate the past or anything like that, that like clearly you two were just like disconnected. What do you guys learn in therapy to allow yourselves to be a different relationship than the relationship you had in the past? Well, from what I've heard and seen on the internet

and stuff, they didn't have the same wants with each other. But I told them, don't waste my time. If you ever want to go elsewhere, if you ever want to go elsewhere, if you ever want to break up, just break up with me. And if you're not happy with something, I'm like, do we want kids? Like, well, do you want kids? And then, okay, how many do you want?

But we have to be on the same page on everything. I'm like, don't waste my time. 16 kids. I know what's happening, you definitely want kids, right? 16 of them. You want 16? No, he does not want 16 of them. But you do, you want them.

That doesn't not happen. Yes, definitely. Yeah. I'm not popping out with 16 kids, but? 16 of them. You want 16? No, he does not want 16, but I'm not having it. Yes, definitely. I'm not popping out with 16 kids, but I'm gonna pop out too. You want kids. I don't wanna go too much in the previous relationship, but there was a major disconnect. There was a massive disconnect, and it felt more of like a business partnership

than anything, but either way, whether that was the case or not, the way I fucking handled it was absolutely atrocious. And it doesn't fucking matter. And I will never ever, I mean, again, like I feel like I've been there, done that. Like I had never been in a relationship that long. I'd never like, like as soon as we started dating,

everybody's like, when are you gonna put a ring on it was like immediately We were pushed together which was great in the beginning But as time went on the differences in us really started to shine and instead of us working on it We just sort of just kind of drifted away and it was just something like which is unfortunate It's unfortunate became a comfort thing. She was still like, Yeah, the relationship's over. Yeah, it's done. How do you guys help each other in general? She helps me all the time. We help each other do the things.

Because I'm, again, I'm not to compare. Like in what way? This is relatively new and that was a, you know. But it felt like you, right or wrong, it felt like in the past, you felt less taken care of, that you seem to feel taken care of now And I'm what for you is the difference? I don't want to say less I don't want to make it like a taking care of thing like it's all about my needs and all

That stuff. I don't don't want to make it like listen I you were just more relationship you independent to take care of each other right? Yeah, you need to connect you You know, yes, you need to take care of each other That's yeah for different reasons and good times and bad you need to connect, you need to take care of each other. That's, you know, and for different reasons and good times and bad, you need to, yeah. But when I first met him, it was a shit show. He was so insecure, he felt so beat down. I mean, you know, the world was going after him

and everything. This man is so different now compared to when I first met him, the insecurity, like, he's so beautiful. Oh, baby. That, that like even just so many different in so many different ways, you were just so insecure. And now you feel like you're more yourself. You know yourself more. I do think that being with me, I'm so sorry.

I didn't mention it again, but like me telling you like, Hey, this isn't cool. Like, and then I would soften up and I'd be like, would you do these things again? No, it's hard, right? You think you see one thing, you get told another, must be confusing. Yeah.

Yeah, and I know too that like because of my past and what I've done, like there's different rules with me now and that's something that I have to live with. And I do live with that and I understand that and I accept that. I understand that on a normal, like normal people that haven't done what I've done, they can have more freedoms and more things but as somebody who's done what I've done, it takes time, it takes time and I get that.

Well, it is kind of ridiculous and you said this, and I'll say it, but like, and it doesn't make it okay, but like, you know, the internet acted like you invented infidelity, you know? And it's a sad reality of relationships, and then like, and I think that's what's fascinating about Scandival, because so many people were trying to like understand why it blew up

the way it did, it is if, and it just- It's still somewhat of a mystery, but it's somewhat, I understand. You became the poster child of that. Probably unfairly so, but it probably was a good lesson and it seems like as difficult as it was. Let me ask you this. Do you feel as shitty as that period was

that you're better for it, and would you trade that whole experience given what progress you seem to have made since? Well it's really, look, obviously if I could go back and change I would change so much. I'm not saying I wouldn't do it, you know, I don't want people to throw that in your face. I'm just saying.

Meeting her and being with her, it's like, who knows? You know what I'm saying? And so it definitely gave me a swift kick in the ass. You know what I mean? In so many ways. It was a real eye-opener and a real, real true, like hard knocks learning experience. And it definitely toughened me up in a lot of ways and just, it gives you a hardcore reality check.

You also get to see like how, you know, when they call like what I'm doing, being on a reality show, a double edged sword, you see that double edged sword. You see that one side sometimes a lot bigger than the other. But, you know, it's been cool to like, you know, with moving on, seeing like going and doing something like Traders, you know, and Special Forces and then going to do Traders and just like, you know, coming back doing something like traders, you know, and special forces, and then going to do traders and just like, you know, coming back from something like that and moving on and moving to the future, like how, you know, it, it, it, it becomes exciting to like, you know,

go from down here to like, keep, you know what I'm saying? Like keep moving forward and keep going ahead and seeing new challenges and seeing like light at the end of the tunnel slowly get brighter and brighter and brighter. And that's been really amazing, especially with her and just in experiences in life. Were you surprised as your time on Traders kept going and you were still there?

I was shocked. That people were just, you could see it online, people were just begrudgingly being like, aww, fucking, aww. you could see it online. People were just like begrudgingly being like, aw, fuckin' Tom, you know, like, that must've felt good. Yeah, it did, it did actually. Whether they were laughing with me or at me, I know they were fuckin' laughing. Did you watch it?

People were begrudgingly rooting for you. There's a lot of like, you know, if nothing else, people were glad you were on their television. They could at least acknowledge they enjoyed watching you. You know? And that, yeah, like I said, that must've. Did you watch it? Traders?

Yeah. Yeah. How good was the doll challenge? It was the best. I was laughing my ass off. I liked the insect moment too. I loved Dylan's response to the insect challenge as they're just like pouring on me. That was the one been this I would have been the same as you. Oh my god

I was very envious of Dylan's ability to like truly not give a fuck and I would have I could have gotten through it You could have gotten I would have been like Tom. It just sucked. I would have You know, I'm muscled through the whole thing Oh as soon as I realized like I got all these things going to crawl on my hands, I was like, why do I need to see that? I'm just not going to look. And I literally imagined, like, little soft little ducklings and, like, cute little things crawling on my hands. But I'll tell you what was so gross is, like, you got these crickets and you got these freaking, like, cockroaches on you

and you have, like, a snake wrapping around your neck and they're crushing these cockroaches and crickets and things on your neck and they're like biting because they're like grasping for life. You know what I'm saying? It was really gross. And then finding like larvae or whatever like in your pockets like later and just, that was the one thing that I was like really not looking forward to. Like I don't know if you remember like Fear Factor, it's like I could do all the other stuff but like when they start eating like, eating stuff like that, like no way. Did you think that the singing in the telephone challenge

was gonna be as hysterical as it was for us? I had no idea. I actually doing it, I was like, this is so stupid. Like I thought it was gonna be boring and stupid. I didn't think, like everybody's just like, you know, we're exhausted most of the time. Like I was running off no sleep and coffee and you get there and you could tell when they said this,

even myself included, you're looking at this, you go, okay, so you got to listen to dolls and sing what they're saying backwards into a phone so like they can play it forward. Everybody, everybody kind of collectively was like, oh no, somebody else go like, oh no, so like nobody fucking wanted to do that at all. And you're like, I'm tempted to go on the most extra, I can do this. I was like, I can do this. I was like, I'll do it. I'll do it because apparently nobody else here is musically. They're like, I don't know.

That's like like asking them to speak another language, which have felt like another language, honestly. Did it feel like a bit of a relief for you to see positive things online for Tom? I loved it, of course. I loved it. He's like, he's my baby. I'm like? I loved it, of course. I loved it. He's like, he's my baby. I'm like, I'm very, very happy.

She was like, Of course. Wow. Because now that I know everything, I'm always like, he doesn't look at anything on the internet. I'm always the one that's telling him stuff now. Because before it was so, it was so brutal and so negative that like,

you don't want wanna look at that. And he's still, he just is bad at going on Instagram or anything. You can only take so many paragraphs of puke emojis before you're just like, ah, I'm good on this. But like, before when it was really negative, I would be like, hey, you want me to go through your DMs? And I'm like, report, report, report, bye.

Like, because there are Instagrams. Well, I'm just like, it was so bad, he would get death threats. I mean like really brutal death threats. It was really bad. They would find out where I was going and they would be like, I'm gonna come meet you. I'm gonna, like it would get very.

Did you have stalkers outside your house at all? There were a few at times, yeah. Damn, it sucks. But now it's, now it's like it's great. Yeah. Does it feel like life's a little bit back to normal for you? Yeah. Yeah. A little bit. Yeah, for sure. I mean, definitely more than a little bit. It's, it's definitely gotten better and I really appreciate it.

I really appreciate everybody, you know, who was cheering for me, rooting me on. Like, I really do appreciate that. It means a lot, you know, especially just, yeah, it was really nice. It was unexpected. Can we talk about your glowing skin? My glowing skin? Oh, thank you. I actually had a CO2 peel, Dr. Lakey,

shout out to Dr. Lakey. Shout out to Dr. Lakey. I was hitting up Tom to try to consider coming back on the show. And you were like, well, I can't right now. I literally can't, my skin's peeling off my face. Did you take care of him in this time of need? We both did it together.

You did it together. It didn't really do much to me. Well, you are a bit younger, you know, as old guys. It didn't really do much. But we looked insane. We looked so crazy. Did you have pictures? The first day, he wouldn't even look at me.

I was like, babe, am I really that ugly? Right? It's like you, I've seen other people do this shit online. It's freaky as shit. I was so swollen. Is it the same thing Tamara Judge did? I'm not sure. Is it?

Yeah, okay. It's been confirmed. Okay. I saw that and I was like, holy shit, this is scary. But she looked great a couple weeks later. It's intense. But yeah, they did a great job and it really, it really helped. How long did you want to do that?

Just cause. Like I felt like it was something I could use, you know? You got to keep the face card fresh. Yeah. I mean, I felt like, you know, new beginning, moving forward to the future, you know, shed off some of that stress drinking that I did back in the day. Just healthier lifestyle, it was like.

Yeah, I'm not gonna do that shit if I'm. Not the drinking all the time anymore, no, just taking care of her skin. He's been so good about working out, I'm trying. You're thinking baby? Yeah, just like, I'm always on him about like, drink water, drink water, just Just like just being healthier in general It's better for our minds better for everything. I ran into your buddy Tom Schwartz

Yeah in January or maybe even New Year's Eve and I was like, oh you've seen much of Santa Vol lately and he kind of gave me the old like my friends in love Has that has the dynamic duo, is it still intact? Yeah, actually he just came to Minnesota. We were in Minnesota together. Like my band was there, he came out there. I blew the Viking horn. We had a lot of fun.

It was great. At like the... No, no. Just at the show or whatever. But it was really fun. But I just don't go out the way that I used to. I've become much more of a homebody and just like focused on getting stuff done, doing things, staying healthy.

Yeah. I can tell you, man, like I took eight months off drinking it like fully. No, no. No, nothing. You were sober for eight months. Eight months. I just quit and I didn't compensate with weed.

It wasn't like California sober. Like I was fully you know sober and You got some shit as sometimes you do on traders and people were bringing up like the sweating dude and Accusing you of knowing of taking other substances you can ask Jack's put that to bed you can ask Jack's I don't do fucking cocaine. I've never done fucking cocaine. I will never do cocaine. It's not my jam, it's not what I do. I've never done that shit.

That's why it's so annoying is because he really doesn't. That's what's so, like if I was like a, you know, casual every once in a while user or whatever, I still wouldn't be doing it on that show. But he's actually like against it. But I don't do fucking cocaine. So that's like, that's why it's so annoying to be accused of something like that.

And I can tell you, it sure as hell was hotter than it is in this room right now, in that in that room. And it was twenty three people all kind of stressed out and I was wearing a very thick wool sweater and I wasn't feeling great. And I wasn't the only one. I thought we were done, like, with our breakfast scene. So I'm like, I'm ripping off this giant, thick wool sweater immediately. Dylan did the same one. I thought we were done like with our breakfast scene. So I'm like, I'm ripping off this giant thick wool sweater immediately. Dylan did the same thing. They just cut him out. He was literally sitting in a white tank top, like just chilling. They're like, dude, you got to put your shirt back on.

They told me the same thing. I was like, I'm fucking dying in here. It's so hot. Like it was really hot. Yeah. Dylan did say it was hot too. He was like, He was like, I feel lucky that I had a white tank top. Yeah, he also was like, I'm lucky that they didn't show me either because he took his shirt off too. There was somebody else that pretended like it was cold. Yeah, I know. Yeah.

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I got shows coming up. I want to get my podcast going again, working on that. There was a lot of speculation about how all that in the past affected obviously your ability to earn income. You were losing deals and I don't even know if that happened. But do you feel- Oh yeah. Okay, that is true.

Are you in a better situation now and do you feel like things have taken a turn? And in addition to fans Letting up and you know less and less hate coming your way Do you also feel like you know like yeah like life's not only getting back to normal with? Relationships or with fans, but also your ability to do your work or make a living yeah It's definitely I mean it's obviously not where it used to be, but it's definitely Bouncing back for sure,

and has gotten better, and there are things happening, and I'm really excited about it. It's really awesome. It feels like a gift to be able to do that again, because when you lose something like that for so long, it's like, you kind of get used to like, okay, it's never gonna happen again, but it does, it's starting to happen again,

and it feels really good. It feels nice to be, you know, there's other show opportunities coming up and like other things like that. It feels really good for myself because it shows that I am valuable TV. I'm valuable being on, on TV. I'm valuable to a show. And it felt really good to like hear that and see that with, with traders and feel that way even with

Special Forces. And I'm sure you felt that way too because you were very valuable on that show, Special Forces as well. You did great. I mean, you won. Thanks buddy. It was a rewarding experience that show. I think for all of us.

I mean, that show is designed to be rewarding. And now River Rose gets to see you kick ass and win Special Forces. That's got to be an awesome feeling, man. I heard her heartbeat right after we got done filming, so it was a very cool. That's awesome, man. Very cool experience. You recently said that Vanderpump was toxic.

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Of course it was. Do you wanna elaborate? By the way, by the way, River Rose is so pretty. Oh my God. The name or just her? The name.

Oh, thank you. I'm sure she's beautiful too. She looks like she, but I love that name. I feel like she kinda has your eyes. Well, I think she has my mom or her other grandma's eyes because I have brown eyes, but she has blue eyes. But I'm just saying the shape.

She looks like me though. The shape. I love that name. Oh my gosh. That's really cute. Well, if you guys have a kid, you're welcome to. But I guess, I don't know if you spoke elaborate on what you meant by that or if that was just a statement,

but I'm curious. That's what was so great about Traders too, and Special Forces. Well, it's a different show. Yes, with Vanderpump Rules, of course those shows are toxic. I mean, they're rewarding bad behavior. You're supposed to show up, doing your job, but showing up and having the one conversation

about the one thing you don't want to talk about with the one person you don't want to talk about it with. You know what I mean? The most uncomfortable, awkward, like feel nauseous in your stomach, like dry mouth conversations all the time after a couple to several drinks. You know what I mean? And maybe like a little bit of lack of sleep if we're on a, at least a little

bit of lack of sleep if we're on a trip. So it's just, it is. And it's nerve wracking too, because they film a scene, they film something like me going to meet up with Lala for lunch and it's shot for an hour and a half and if we're lucky, we get five minutes of that. So they have all the power to show like, which I would see happen in Vanderpump Rules, you know? Like, if I keep pushing you in the arm,

pushing you in the arm, pushing you in the arm, and then you finally go, Tom, stop, like you're an asshole, stop doing that. What they'll do is they'll cut out me like pushing you in the arm five times and just get me pushing you, you calling me an asshole, and then they create the debate. They create the debate online.

Who side you on? You team Nick or you team Tom? That's, and I saw, you know, I've been on the show with other cast members who abuse that and do that and to try to provoke you because they know they're gonna keep heckling you, heckling you, going after you, attacking you, attacking you till you finally snap and then they don't show

the heckling, like the lead up to like all the heckling and all the like badgering and then they show you, them saying it one time or something once and then you getting upset and then cut print on, you know what I mean? Like. Yeah, speaking of toxic, one person that I've been even more critical than I ever was of you

was your past castmate, James Kennedy. Yeah. Who was incredibly hard on you when Scandival was going on. And say what you want about what you did, but like for me, what he's been accused of by multiple people, I think is unforgivable. And I think it's a certain kind of person

that I really don't think you are. Please don't compare me to James Kennedy. No, he's saying that you're not. I'm literally saying, for all the people you've got, person I've gotten to know. Or completely different people. Well, despite whatever flaws you may have, I really don't think you're capable of being physical For all the pervs you got, person I've gotten to know. Or completely different people. Despite whatever flaws you may have,

I really don't think you are capable of being physical with women. And clearly, I felt like I had gotten to know James a little bit, seemed like a nice guy, but then you kind of heard all these rumors in the past, but you just think you don't really know, and then that stuff comes out, and I've since talked more to Chris than Dodie,

but where do you stand with him at all? And do you have any thoughts and feelings on, because quite honestly, I was very disappointed in how Lisa has handled it and what seemingly she seems to cover for him in ways that I don't think she covered for other people, but do you have anything to say on the topic? Yeah, especially considering James and I's past,

yeah, he was getting chants going, like, Sandavall's a liar. But unlike James Kennedy, I'm not gonna kick him while he's down. I'm sure he's dealing with a lot. But with that being said, whether there's alcohol involved or not, there's absolutely no excuse for a man to put his hands on a

woman and also there are a lot of previous other allegations and you know where there's smoke there's fire and that's that's all I want to really say about that can I ask you why do you think Lisa has the position that she does I don't know okay I don't know that's that that she does? I don't know. Okay. I don't know. That's on her. I don't know. Understood.

Okay. Well, thanks for allowing me to ask that question because I know I'm sure it's not super easy. And I think for Jax, like I'm actually proud of, really, really proud of Jax for being sober. Because that's kind of take a lot, like to own it to the world, you know,

that to admit it and everything, that's gotta take a lot of courage to even do that in the first place. His critics, me being one of them, would say it just seems like every time there's some sort of vulnerability from Jaxx. It always seems to be right around when a new season of Whatever the Fuck's Coming Out,

and it sometimes comes across as self promotion? Well, he has been sober. Like, whether it happens to be around the beginning of the season or not, he's still doing it. You seem to, even Jax, because Jax was really, Jax took advantage of Scandival to benefit himself. Yeah, but that's the thing, I'm not Jax.

You still have a soft spot for Jax. I just don't like to, I do not feel good when somebody is down or when they're like going through it, like dog palling on them. That is not a good feeling to me. I feel like they're already getting it enough, but I'm just saying like I'm not gonna be that person and I don't know if it's necessarily a soft spot or what.

When I see that everybody is dog piling on somebody who's really trying to like, like Jax for instance, with somebody who's really trying to do something like every day, you gotta do this every day. When I stopped drinking, I smoked a lot of cigarettes and I drank all day. And to stop doing that takes, it's like an all day, every day challenge.

And you don't have anything numbing you. All you have to distract you is just trying to keep yourself busy and focused. And on top of that, your world is crumbling. So it's like, Jack's world is kind of, is crumbling, you know, going through divorce, all that stuff. He's got, you know, cruise and, you know, he's been getting a lot of hate and stuff like that.

And for him to be sober during this time, I told him, I sent him the last text I sent him was like, listen, you are being very powerful right now. Do not let anybody else take your power away from you. What do you say? He really appreciated it. Cause I saw some shit came out about him just like dogging him and I'm like You know this to me feels like something that would be like fuck it. Nobody cares. Nobody really gives a shit It's all for nothing. I'm just gonna fucking go out and get shit face and do some coke

Do you think I should be open to giving him a little bit more grace? Yeah, I mean look that's up to you I'm bad, but I'm asking your opinion. I think so Okay, I think so. I think it's one of those things where Jax loved famously loved to say on every reunion He would be like, you know, I'm just don't work on all myself. I'm a work in progress But like it was like he just was saying that shit It's like he had like a get like a pull string, you know, where you pull it and he'd say like 10 different things. You know what I mean? And that was one of them.

But now he's actually doing it. So that's where I gotta give him credit. And to me that's evolving. And also, I think having a son and knowing, I mean obviously you having a daughter, it's like you know that you are a model for that person. You know, you're an example of life and how to be. And I think that is really starting to hit him.

If it hasn't already. I don't hang out with Jack's a ton. I don't, but you know. But you can consider him a friend or just someone you're supporting from afar? I consider Jack's a friend. And we're not like, we don't hang out and talk every day. You friend and I mean we're not like, we don't hang out and talk every day, you know what I mean? I don't have like a ton of people that I do that with

as it is. But you don't have any animosity or you're not like, you're not distancing yourself or anything. Not this week. No, I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding. Fair enough. Fair enough. No, we're cool.

You know, he's Jacks, he annoys me sometimes, but I've known him for a long time and that's you know that's just who he is and that's our friendship and that's What you know, he stays in that place of our friendship where it's at and it's cool like but when I see somebody who's really really actually doing something like doing something when I see somebody go like Piling on them. It's like I feel as a friend that I need to encourage him and I will, and I will encourage him and I will champion for him and I will be there for him

because I know what it's like. I know what it's like when people lose hope in you and completely give up on you. Yeah. Yeah, man, I'm proud of you, man. You've really, you've come a long way. Thanks, man. Thank you. And I think people are seeing, you know, fucking the

internet's everything we're, we're throw it over and it's like narcissists and blah, blah, blah. And it's just like, you're hardly perfect. That's for sure. And certainly at times can be self centered and selfish and so as or, but like, you know, I hate it when people like dehumanize people for making mistakes and things like that. And I'm glad people, whether they wanna like you or not, or whether they wanna fuck with you or not, whether they would introduce you to your sister or not, I'm glad they can see the human side of you,

because I feel like they lost that a little bit. It's nice to see. Even my mom was like, because my mom watched the show. Vanderpump? Yeah. So she told me and she was like, no, no, no. And what did you say to your mom?

I was like, I like give him a chance. I really like him. And it... And what does mom say to you? She had to meet him and she had to like, you know, it took a minute, but now she loves him. She absolutely loves him. My dad, my dad absolutely loves him.

Really? Whose idea was it getting a couples therapy? My mom actually suggested it. I feel like it was kind of a suggestion for all of us, but I was very adamant about it. Suggested it. To save her mom. Yes. I try to...

Because my mom does that herself. You know, sometimes you come up with the same idea around whatever. But we, you know, we noticed some things happening, especially with, you know, her like peeling back the layers, the like finding shit out, it was creating stuff like, and it had, and it continued to, but we had to figure out a healthy way to deal with that. And on top of that, I was like,

it's so much easier to learn good habits now, than unlearn habits, bad habits. I mean therapy is, it's better when you use like a bicycle helmet rather than reconstructive surgery, I always say. Yeah. That's good. That's so good.

Yeah, I like that. What's your favorite thing about Victoria? Well, as gorgeous and beautiful as she is, she's so down to earth, so cool, and just so loving and so nurturing. She's really fun and spontaneous. We're really spontaneous together at times, and we push each other.

We really kind of like pick up where the other one leaves off. We had the best first date ever. I knew you were about to go there. Ever. Why? It just was like- It was the best first date. It was just like, first of all, it kind of came together like last second.

It was like, oh, I'm like, wait, should we do this date? We planned on having a date, but like, no, let's not. And I was like, you know what? Fuck it, let's do it. And so. You're pretty exhausted. Yeah, and so we, you know. And then we had it at Craig's.

Yes, at Craig's. Back at Craig's. Deliberately, because that's where you guys met, or that was just you going? No, it just happened. We both like the place, and we ended up getting. We ended up going. Espresso martinis.

Yeah, we had some espresso martinis. I'm getting tired. And we sat down, and we ordered a bunch of food. She had never had oysters before. In fact, had some espresso martinis. Because we're tired. And we sat down and we ordered a bunch of food she had never had oysters for. In fact, she said, she was like, you can order. I was like, what do you like? And she's like, anything but oysters. I was like, okay, can I get some oysters?

And I ordered some oysters because I was like, how long has it been since you've had them? Like, let me like do them up for you. Like, let me add the minieta, everything. And I did. And I was like just try it once, and she tried it, and I actually have a video of it, but her try is just. I love them now. Yeah, now you wanna fuck with seafood.

He like, he just did his little concoction or whatever, and I was like I can't believe I'm about to try this, and then it was great, and then. We literally just had oysters yesterday. I was like, I can't believe I'm about to try this. And then it was great. And then. We literally just had oysters yesterday. And then, yeah. Oh, then we get up there. What's a.

You can tell the rest. You can tell the rest. We ended up having sex in the bathroom at Craig's. It was her idea. Sorry, sorry Craig. Yeah, not only Craig cares. Yeah, I think he likes it actually. And then we like.

I think there's a lot more weird things that go on in those bathrooms. We end up rushing into like, what was it, the Naughty Pig? Naughty Pig, went and just ran in there. On your first date? Yeah, we like- Sex in Craig's bathroom. Yes.

Which, men's or women's? Women's. Yeah. And then right after that we just ran in. In the stall? The gender neutral one that's just one, like you close it, it's just one person. Oh, okay.

Yeah. That's discreet. And then we ended up running into the naughty pig and taking like the best Polaroids, pretty racy. And then we ended up at, what was it? I thought that was it. Oh no, we went to Barney's. Barney's, yeah we went to Barney's. Barney's, yeah, we went to Barney's.

And then, yeah. And then we ended up getting the food to go, and then we ate it like, we got home. We had a fun little ride back. Yeah. But we won't tell all the details. And did the second date start the next morning? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Obviously when you met Tom, you had to hear about his past, but when you met Tom, we also had to hear a little bit about yours and some of the people you've dated in the past. Oh, do you care? Like, do you care about that? I mean, like, do you care about people talking about your past? Are you? Okay. Which one? What? Wow. You have a, what do you have more? You have a? Wow you have a you have a couple you know you have a couple famous boyfriends no? Which one are you talking about? Wait can I get some more whiskey?

Did you not did you eat leo? Is that true? Yeah not true. So okay. More whiskey. Yeah um okay. Tom needs a drink. No, it doesn't, I mean. So we. I thought you were a virgin. What? What? Sorry to break it to ya. So him and I are still really good,

we're not really good friends now. If we see each other in passing. You're cool. We're cool, yeah. I'm actually closer to Toby. Toby Maguire is his really good friend. Blue? In blue, yeah, they're great.

I've introduced him to Blue and Toby. Did you guys date or were you just friends that actually was a thing? We had like a little thing or whatever. We would hang out as friends for most of the time. And I think that just like so many girls were so, we would go out and we'd meet up and then all girls would just like swarm him and just like stare at him and it was just so freaky.

I'm like, oh my God, like what is going on? Like, and then he, I think he likes the fact that whenever I'd hang out with him, I'd just treat him like a normal person because he is a normal person, just very successful and great at his job and you know, and we're just, I mean, we had a little thing but we weren't like in a relationship, you know, and we're just, I mean, we had a little thing, but we weren't like in a relationship, you know,

but we, yeah. Do you have other famous exes? There's one I'm not gonna really bring up and then the other one I don't really like right now or ever, so, cause he wasn't very nice, but so I won't bring him up either. They don't deserve that from me Where do you stand with the rest of your like like Lala?

Are you pretty much kind of that was work and you kind of moved on and it's you and sports and kind of no one Else or have you no I actually was talking to Sheena I know she was when she was on the mass singer. We were talking about that and I Talked to Lala, you know, a couple weeks ago or so, checked in. I mean, obviously we're in different places in our life and we're both home bodies in our own way. But yeah, I mean, I still talk to some people like, now and again, you know what I mean?

It's just, it's one of those things. Like when you're on a reality show like that for 12 years and you're not filming, it's like you almost get used to just like cutting yourself off kind of for a little bit, like from everybody because you really enjoy the time away. So it's like we're almost like having to like learn how to like reconnect again in a way where it's like. We don't have to watch what we say, we don't have to, you know, and which has been, I got to say, man, obviously the way the show got canceled, it's not canceled but recast it it sucked to find

out like that and to have it happen then but it's been really nice like I'm really enjoying like being in a relationship with somebody who you know doesn't have to go through that where we're not getting questioned on what we had for dinner like last night and then you know how many times i wiped my ass in the morning like it's literally like it's so it feels so invasive man and it's so nice would you guys ever if bravo called oh they're actually calling right now hello bravo hey oh yeah baby, you wanna do it? What? You're so funny.

She said, you're so funny. We'll talk later. Sorry I wasn't that good, but. We'll use that as a problem. But no, yes, don't care. Don't wanna leave anything's possible, but. I like the idea of not really doing it. That seemed a bit toxic from what I've seen.

And I, what you said earlier. They don't have your relationship in their best interest. Yeah, what you said earlier, like they cut things in certain shows that I've noticed now that I'm watching more of like reality stuff and can make somebody look a certain way and whatever.

I don't know, but it depends on like what kind of show it would be. Do you know what I'm saying? One thing that would be different if they did do something is it wouldn't be Vanderpump rules again. It would be coming, I'm sure it would be coming into something

sort of a different experience because what ends up happening is like her being my girlfriend, it's like, she would just be Tom's girlfriend instead of, like, Victoria Lee Robinson. Coming into a situation like now, or if they did something different or pivoted, she would come in on an equal playing field. Because you know, I don't know if you've noticed on Vanapump Rules, but like, the new

people that come in, there's a lot of, like I don't do it, but there's a lot of hazing that goes on, and a lot of like ganging up on the new person. I've never been that way, I've always been the opposite. What would be nice is if that did happen, at least there wouldn't be that. You wouldn't be getting hazed by people the way you would have if you would have

came on Vandapump Rules. Like you would have ganged up on, or felt like you didn't have a voice. Yeah, I think I would be fine. I think I would be fine. Yeah, you'd kick some ass actually. She's a badass. As far as your guys' relationship, are you guys just taking it easy, slow? Like, do you believe in marriage?

Yeah. Do you guys talk about that stuff yet or is it too soon? Yeah, we talk about it. Okay. We have to talk about it. Like I said earlier, it's like, if we're not on the same page, I don't wanna waste my time.

But that's what you guys both want. We're not saying we're gonna get married right now. Yeah, but listen, like you said, like you said, your dolls, I mean, it is part of the plan, though. We did talk about having sex in outer space. Good for you. We did, we did.

Nobody has officially. I looked it up and nobody has done it yet. And so I'm like, we have sex in. You guys can have sex in our bathroom. Hopefully, it will be the first one to do it in outer space. So what's the deal with you and Krishyl? Well, I'll tell you a story actually. For Valentine's Day, we went back to Craig's because it was like right after our one year anniversary

and we had dinner there. It was so funny. We were walking into Craig's. They're like asking me, like TMZ's there. And they're like, hey, so, because it's in the midst of traitors, and they're like, so like, what's going on with you and Chris Hsiao, blah, blah, blah, like asking me. And I'm like, oh, we're best friends. We're like, you know, just joking around and going there.

And then we're sitting there at dinner. We end up running into Tara Reed and her boyfriend, Nate. And we had a- Oh, Tara? Yeah, Tara, yes. She's so sweet. She's super cool. Oh yeah, you were, okay. Yeah. She was at Craig's that night too when you guys met.

Yeah. We actually ended up to be a double date. Yeah, we ended up making a double date. Her boyfriend Nate's so cool, like love him. She's very sweet. She's a sweetheart. She's super cool. She looks great now too, by the way.

Oh yeah. Oh my gosh. She looks really good. Yeah, so we're there and get up, like we're all talking, we're like get up, use the bathroom and I walk by the same room we were in and I see a group of people standing up to like take a picture and...

That you guys were in. Yeah, that we were in like this after Special Forces and I lock eyes with Chris shell she's in that room taking a picture and I was like holy shit babe like Chris shells in that room and I was like we came back and I was like you know what I'm gonna send them I knew she saw me too like it just happened to be one of those things I looked in and I was like, we came back and I was like, you know what, I'm going to send them. I knew she saw me too. Like it just happened to be one of those things I looked in and it was like, we literally looked at each other and she like looked away and I was like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. And Tom has one drink and he's already like, whoo, because we don't really drink.

And I was like, you know what, I'm going to send them around the shots. And so I sent them around the shots and the waiter told me, they're like, are you kidding me? What? I was just like, you know what I mean? Let's slip by God's, you know what I mean? I mean, there's not really any real beef between you two, is there? No, I mean, it was-

I guess she's friends with your ex or whatever and she wanted to have her back or something. God, her story has changed quite a bit. It went from, I remember when I watched, I watched that one and I got sent that part of the podcast, that clip. What part of the podcast? Oh, when she said, when she was here. When she was here.

Yeah. I forgot what she said. She said something along the lines of, um, I went up to Tom to tell him that like I followed Ariana on Instagram. Sure. Okay. And... Like she's a girl's girl or something?

Yeah, and I'm like, when we did Special Forces, and obviously like you have a certain feeling towards me, like I get it. I fully get it. And especially back then, like I fully understand. I didn't go on Special Forces even knowing that you had said a lot of shit about me or whatever. I didn't take anything out on you. I didn't go on special forces, even knowing that you had said a lot of shit about me or whatever. I didn't take anything out on you. I didn't treat you anyway. And in fact, I felt like we bonded. Yeah. And...

You definitely don't... To your credit, like you said, you don't... I don't do that shit. You don't stoop to... Whether it's stooping to people's level or fighting fire with fire, you don't do that. No. And I don't do that. I don't don't do that. I don't like to do that. I don't think it's cool. And you know, so going into something like that, we shared a car together on the way to the castle for the first time and Dolores was there.

And I think Jeremy was in the car and we're all just like talking and just like whatever. Like, and she was like, you know, just so you know, I follow Ariana on Instagram. And I'm like, that's totally cool. I get it. You're a girl. Like she's massively, you know, successful. She's a hero now. Like I fully understand. I also like Sierra's there. I know Sierra follows. I like I know Dorinda follows her like every but Dolores like all every I knew like probably if these are reality women in a castle like on traders

I'm assuming that at least 50% of them probably follow my axe sure it's no big deal when we took our blindfolds off You know as a poker player do you ever play poker? I don't play all the time, but you play when somebody like sits up in their seat and they look down and they have to readjust themselves and they're thinking about what's... Okay, I gotta like... That's what happened when we took the blindfolds off. I clocked it, Tony right next to her clocked it. I asked Danielle, she... I said, give me two names and one of them was Krishel, even though she was a traitor.

But anyways, that's all it was, is I was just trying to play the game. And when I brought that up, her reaction to me, I didn't see it at the time. I didn't see it as a possibility. I'm like, there's only two reasons why somebody would react this way. Because when you see traders go after each other, you'll notice they throw more personal digs in.

You know what I mean? Like if you watch like, when when you when somebody else gets accused, like who's not a traitor, they're just like, OK, I understand what you feel. I'm definitely not a traitor. I'm a faithful. This is why this is why they don't go, oh, yeah. Well, your mother never loved you or like, you know, they don't sit there and say that shit. You definitely saw Bob the Drag Queen and like Boston Rob doing that. You saw Carolyn and like Danielle doing that

because they're traitors, because they're being really defensive. That's what I thought initially when she said that. I was mortified when she like brought up the whole scandal and everything. So you're just like, yeah, you must be, okay. So I thought that initially, and her story changed immediately from,

I follow Ariana on Instagram to now change to Ariana and I are friends. So you're personally coming after me. And she really has been trying to like sell that story, which is bullshit. And she knows it because she's changed it back to on your podcast. Like, we're not even really friends. Like, yeah, we, you know, we follow each other. And we don't, it's not like we talk.

Like it was annoying to see that happen. And later on, as I realized that she's not a trader, I'm like, okay, why is she doing this? She's not doing this because she's a trader being defensive. She's doing it to ride the coattails of the scandal, knowing that she'll have a platform of people that already hate me that will fucking get behind her. And that's exactly what happened. What are your thoughts on that? It's possible.

I mean, I think Michelle's very, you know, Michelle's no dummy. Oh yeah, you should have seen it too. They edited this part out. Like after she said all that stuff, like I could see you doing this because you know what you're capable of, all this. Right after she was done saying that she goes like this she goes,

I don't even feel safe being this close, like comfortable being this close to you. Like while we were sitting at the run it was like a full thing and I'm sorry like I gotta put her on blast like that was some fucking bullshit and it like hurt my feelings, it hurt me and she keeps keeps trying to paint this picture, which I obviously wasn't, and then she goes on to watch What Happens Live and says that I was sweating because I had lots of coke and I had sugar running through my veins.

That's not cool. She said that? She said that. She accused you of? She literally goes. Oh, oh, oh, oh. She goes, she was like a,, oh, oh. She goes. It was like a, you know, she.

He had lots of coke and there was lots of sugar running through his veins. Okay. Yeah. That's not nice. That's not nice. A little dirty. Yeah. So I just wanted you to be aware of that because I thought, I saw like what she said on your

podcast and I was like, what? I was like, what? That would be, I would, if I were you, I'd be upset. Yeah, it was frustrating to deal with. And I did not talk to that girl. She also added in nice little things like, oh, all he did was talk about himself. And I don't know if you remember me eating

in the castle standing up all the time. I literally would eat standing up so I could go around and just try to figure out to the traders, we didn't have time to talk about shit like that. Yeah, listen, reality TV, I mean, I know that happens. I know like in Batch the World, it's not as toxic as Bravo World,

but like, you know, if you're popular, people wanna fuck with you, and if you're not popular, people will like to pile on because like, you know, it's good for their engagement, you know. Yeah. It happens, sadly, but. Yeah, I just, I noticed that, cause it had been sent my way, and I was just like what I was like What is this shit? Um it's all good though? I mean you know whatever I wish are the best go do your own thing, but like

Just fucking leave me alone Just fucking leave me alone all right. Well. We'll end it on that Tom. Thanks for coming back man, dude Thank you man. This episode went so much different in the best possible way. Victoria, it was an absolute pleasure meeting you and getting to know you. You too. Thank you for having me.

You guys seem like a really great couple. Thanks, man, thank you. I'm really happy for you guys. I'm so happy for you too, you and Natalie. Yeah. Oh my gosh, River Rose. I wish she was here. I'm so.

She wishes she was here too. She's not, unfortunately unfortunately feeling the best, but I'm just really happy for you guys. Happy for you. I'm glad you were able to turn a corner. And you know, like as I got to know you on Special Forces, it did like, I know you don't believe this, but like, you know, it was frustrating to see you be,

it felt like you were being resistant to just turning a fucking corner and growing from that experience. And it clearly seems like that has happened. And often is the case, like when we meet a good woman, us men, it can really help us if we're willing to do the work. And it seems like you have,

and I'm really happy for you, man. I'm inspired. I'm proud of you. Thanks, baby. All right, well, wishing you guys the best. Maybe we'll get invited to the wedding. Yeah. Hell yeah. All right. well, wishing you guys the best. And maybe we'll get invited to the wedding. Yeah. Hell yeah.

All right. We want to do a little spontaneous thing. Thanks for coming, guys. Yeah, we like spontaneous. Thanks for listening, guys. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you, Nick. We'll see you tomorrow.