The Viall Files - E917 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend Stole My Job

Episode Date: April 14, 2025

Welcome back to another episode of The Viall Files: Ask Nick Edition!  Our first caller is wondering if her ex is a narcissist that ghosted her or if she ghosted him. Our second caller is debating rekindling her situationship. And, our third caller is wondering how to get closure from an ex who dropped her.  “You are the villain in many people’s stories" Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff every Monday starting October 21st! Available wherever you get your podcasts and YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 https://open.spotify.com/show/4NWA8LBk15l2u5tNQqDcOO?si=c03a23d537f94735   Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: https://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice, send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line!  To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: ASPCA - To explore coverage, visit https://aspcapetinsurance.com/viall  Vessi - Pack smarter and travel better with Vessi. Visit https://vessi.com/viall now for 15% off your first pair at checkout and start exploring with confidence. SKIMS - Shop SKIMS best intimates including the Fits Everybody Collection and more at https://skims.com and SKIMS stores. Shopify - Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial and start selling today at https://shopify.com/viall  Timestamps: (00:00) - Intro (00:13) - Caller One (46:47) - Caller Two (01:21:56) - Caller Three Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @justinkaphillips @dereklanerussell

How's it going? Hello, my name is Francesca. I'm 28 years old and I'm wondering if my ex is narcissistic and ghosted me or if I'm actually the bitch who ghosted him. Okay, well with these types of questions, my first question is always, why do you care about your ex? Well, the reason I care is because

we had just started rekindling a relationship that was about a year in the making and- You were rekindling for a whole year? No, we were rekindling for like a couple of months. We had broken up in October, actually he had broken up with me. First time anyone's broken up with me, so it shell shocked me and added a lot of stress

and overthinking into what was going on in the relationship. But the reason I care about what's going on with my ex is because we just didn't finish the relationship. We just never spoke again after having a certain phone call. And it's just not in my character to be a ghost or to end things on a bad note. Like I have pretty high emotional intelligence, I would say.

So I hate that. What was this phone call about? So on the day after Valentine's day, I felt like he was being a little short with me, which has been an ongoing issue in the relationship when he's frustrated by something or doesn't like something. He doesn't just come to me and bring it up in a healthy way

and we talk it out and then it's all good. He kind of punishes me for it. And I have to realize that I'm being kind of ignored or he's being shorter with me, less affectionate. I have to ask and then it comes up. So that's always been a frustration. Give me, try to give me a quick example of what you mean. Like real quick.

So, so let's, here's an example. I didn't get a plus one for a wedding last summer. We're in our twenties. Um, when you're not that close with the couple getting married, you don't want to ask them to add a plus one for some new guy you're dating. So anyway, not a problem to me. When I was at the wedding, he wouldn't speak to me, wouldn't answer my texts. When I called him, he decided to be angry about it while I was at the wedding.

Why not before the wedding or at a time where we could talk about it? Okay. Great example. Thank you. You're welcome. So Valentine's, day after Valentine's Day, he's being short doing the punishment thing. So I called him to say like, what's wrong? Like what are you upset about? And.

Oh, okay, so he just, so there's a pattern of all of a sudden his mood changes. You notice he's treating you a certain way. Yes. And then you realize you need to figure out why. Mm-hmm, I have to ask why. Now let me ask you this, do you really have no clue or do you play dumb?

Both, sometimes I have a clue, but it usually surprises me so much what he actually is upset about that I don't even know. And what surprises you, that he's upset about it or how elevated his emotions are over? What I think what bothers me, his emotions aren't that elevated,

he gets actually more reserved and cold. So it's not a heightened emotion, it's more why is he mad about something like that? I don't know, I guess maybe we're arguing over semantics and it's maybe just how we define it. But I think passive aggressive can still be really aggressive. I agree.

It's just in a more passive fucking irritating way coupled with just the extreme passive aggressive nature. You know what I'm saying? So just because they're not, you know, flying off the handle or screaming or elevating their voice or slamming doors, doesn't mean they're not like, overreacting. That's a very fair point.

I would agree with that. So we would agree that what you're saying is, you're more shocked by what feels like an overreaction to whatever it is that's upsetting him. Exactly. Because I can see the example you gave about getting a plus one. I think honestly, we could probably,

I could have a 45 minute discussion on my podcast about like, you know. What do you do in that situation? What do you do in that situation? Listen, it's a barometer, you know, like stuff like that early in a relationship is just, it is a relationship barometer. It is how does this person feel about me?

What kind of priority am I to this person? Right. There's several different like layers or ways to interpret things, but either way, when you break it down, it is a barometer. And so he is absolutely justified to be like, oh, well, I mean, okay, yeah. Like he could be upset about it, right? His approach seems to be just fucking annoying

and borderline aggressive, even if it's passive. Correct me if I'm wrong by any of this. But yeah, no, it makes it, right? Because you're just like, you know, let's be real. You could meet someone for two weeks, two weeks. I mean, I have, whether it was right or wrong or whether I was delusional or not, I in my life have met women that I got really excited about

and two weeks into knowing them, we were saying some crazy shit to each other. And if I got invited to a wedding, I would have been like, I would have been that guy who would have been like, can I bring up, come on, like, can I, cause I wanna take this person. So this is why it's so important for me

to ask the second part of my initial question. Like I definitely have pieces of me that it's gonna take a certain type of man to handle because I- I think that's true about all of us. Yeah. I think that it's been a pattern in my more serious adult relationships that my social life being much more abundant than theirs creates problems. And so there,, you know, at the age of 28, I'm trying to figure out, okay, if there are things about me and the way I live my life

that are pushing away men, then I need to address those. What are your relationship goals? I wanna get married and start a family. When? Ideally, I mean, I don't like to time limit myself, but unfortunately we- These are just goals. These are your goals. We have a biological clock and mine's a bit more curtailed I don't like to time limit myself, but unfortunately we... These are just goals. These are your goals.

We have a biological clock and mine's a bit more curtailed than maybe other people's would be. So I would say if I could start having kids by 31, that would be biologically best. And when you say going out, what do you mean? Going out in what sense? Like going out with my friends?

Well, that's what I'm asking you. You said, you have a... I don't know exact what words you said, but you referenced like your, My social life is more abundant. Yes, yeah. So what do you mean by that? I have dear friends from when I was a child

that we have always, since we were literally children, sleepovers, going and doing stuff together, movies. Now that we're older, it's evolved into, we have a certain music taste. If we have artists that are performing in different cities, we would like to go together. And I have a lot of friends getting married. So bachelorette trips are everywhere. Birthday trips are things that we do now that we make money and have freedom. How often is this happening? In my opinion, not very often.

Like the last time I went out was maybe two months ago. So it's every few months, maybe. Every few months you are going on a trip. On a trip, not necessarily, but doing something that would be considered going out. Like going to a show or going on a trip. But these are like concerts or fest, you know, just social events. I'm not going to a club for fun every weekend,

absolutely not, and I wouldn't accept that from my partner either. Yeah, that seems totally normal for the average 20. I appreciate that reaction. Well, so like every guy you've ever dated had a problem with this? My last two long-term relationships that has become a problem. So what do you think it is? Do you think it's bad luck in terms of the men that you dated? Or do you think despite the way you described your social life to me,

despite the way you described your social life to me, there's something missing that is, like if I got them on the Zoom and like you just like turned off your phone, and I was just like, no, what was it that pissed you off about her? Would they give me the same answer? You know, I think after reflecting a lot on it, it might be just an element of yes, the choosing,

but also there's some element of insecurity in the relationship. Let me ask you this. So you have, in this group, there's other married women, right? Yeah. Various couples. Yeah, various couples, various relations,

various happiness in these relationships. I would bet that there's various degrees of wives, girlfriends, and partners who check in with their partners, text back and forth, communicate, I don't know, call, send, pictures, I don't know, maybe to the level of obnoxiousness. And then there are people who like,

kind of just are like, hey, I'm gone this weekend. I'll see you in three days. And they're pretty hard to get a hold of. And then when you do, your boyfriends might text you or call you, you're either unavailable or you respond, I don't know, an hour later, and you're just kind of busy and you're just not their problem. Which one are you?

I'm guessing the latter. I would say, I know I definitely land in the middle. I am somebody that likes communication. Communication is, my love language is words of affirmation. So I am big on let's stay in touch, let's talk on the phone, let's text. I do occasionally garden when I'm on these trips or just maybe on a regular basis,

which gets me a little spacey. I don't know if you know what I'm, I'm smoke. Oh, okay. Pretty regularly. Okay, well, you know. So it makes me spacey and I don't always text back if I'm like sitting with my best friend having a deep life conversation.

Yeah, I might not text you back for an hour, but I'm pretty good about it. Listen, I mean, to each their own, I'm not here to lecture you. I'm just trying to understand what you're saying. Understand, but is, yeah, I mean, to each their own, I'm not here to lecture you. I'm just trying to understand what you're saying. Understand. But as, yeah, I mean, as someone who's a pretty heavy weed smoker, like I'm, I'm a very attentive husband and father.

So I'm just saying, like, I think you're blaming it on the alcohol, so to speak, a little bit. Yeah, I know. At the end of the day. I am good about it, but I will say there are periods where I'm having the deep life conversation where I look at my phone an hour and a half later and I'm like, oh, hey, sorry.

Listen, I also wanna be clear that that's not necessarily a problem. There's a couple, I don't know, what's her name? Some celebrity woman who's been married for 300 years and her and her husband live in two different houses, works for them. Or Dolly Parton, her husband was never seen publicly because that's just what worked for them.

Yeah, so anyways, it's up to you, right? But you just have to be self-aware about how available you are emotionally and how needy are the men that you date? And are you dating needy men because they fill some other void in your life that you like, but when it comes to your girl traps, it's really fucking obnoxious.

Yeah, yeah, that's probably part of it. I will say, the more recent one wasn't as bad about it. I think there were just other things that started to come up that painted a picture that I'm not as invested as he is, which might have been true in some ways. And that's where I think a lot of the things he did were very toxic and unhealthy and reasons that I was like, yeah, you're probably not my person. At the same time, I think it makes me feel some level of guilt to feel that somebody was trying harder or more invested than I was.

And yeah, now there's just this messy ending where we just stopped speaking entirely after that phone call. And I'm like, should I just clear the air? Because in my character, I don't have bad blood with anybody. I just don't want it. Yeah, but this is definitely more about you

than making sure he's okay. Yeah, I think because I'm angry about some things or my feelings are hurt about some things, but at the same time, I can easily talk. That's why my question at the beginning is what it is. I can easily convince myself that it's me that's the problem or that it's him that's the problem. Where did narcissists come into this conversation? Why do you think

he's a narcissist? I think because of an emphasis on looks for himself and for the person he's with as well as a huge difference between vanity and narcissism. Yeah, as well as, um, there's just a number of things. I started looking into it. I never thought he was because I thought there was an element of insecurity there. And I was like, well, if he's a narcissist, he can't be insecure. But then I was looking it up and it's like, actually, they can be and they probably are very insecure. So there's a number of things about vanity, about manipulation in certain situations, wanting somebody to seem wrong. My general opinion about the conversation around narcissists, it's become ridiculous and deluded.

Like gaslighting. Yeah, I mean, listen, our society has never been more self-centered and selfish. It's most narcissists are the one accusing other people of being narcissists. The selfish person in the room thinks everyone else is selfish because like the selfish person thinks everyone should be focused on them.

And when people are focused on other things, that's very offensive to the selfish or not. But like, that's all of us. Like, you know, I mean, you know, a true narcissist. I mean, like we have narcissism all over us. We're surrounded by narcissism. We're incentivized, you know, it's not become a currency, but like in terms of relationships, like, yeah,

a lot of people have become more self-centered. Everyone out there, a lot of people giving relationship advice, it's just all about like, you gotta love yourself before you love everyone else. It's just like, if you're not happy, then what's, it's like, yeah, so, I mean, but like, I really like our update calls, right?

So it is nice to hear that there is some positive impact at times, but I could give advice that I think is great that the listeners think are great. And maybe it is actually pretty solid advice, but the way people often even hear my advice and then they might even hear it the right way, forget about it. Episode doesn't come out for a few weeks. And then like they act on what they think that advice is, but they have run that advice through their ego and their insecurity, and then it gets kind of,

it's like the telephone game in their mind. They hear the advice, it sounds like, Nick said this, blah, blah, blah, blah. By the time they act on this advice or they repeat it back to something else, their ego has been like, no, no, no, no, no, right? And again, we are so programmed to make everything about us

and our main characters and yada, yada. I think, and also like the energy people are spending trying to figure out whether their boyfriend or exes are, I mean, just who cares? What are you gonna do with that information? Nothing, I think that's probably less, it's so true. Like there's narcissism everywhere. We all are in our own ways, slightly narcissistic.

Yeah, I mean- I think a lot of it comes from the oscillation between the love bombing and the courting, and then the like punishment over small behaviors that- Listen, I think there's a lot of- That we look into that term in research. Yeah, there's a lot of people out there. I mean, more and more.

Listen, we have our society overnight. We just became a society of victimhood at first. Everything at first is always meant with for a good cause. You know, it's just like, we, we did need to recognize various groups. We need to like recognize, hey, we need to like care for these people. We need to recognize, hey, we need to care for these people. We need to recognize our, you know. But then it became like, shit, you know, it's just like, one day, no one wanted to acknowledge

or wanted to be dyslexic, because they didn't want to be weird. And then overnight, it was like, at least I'm fucking dyslexic, so I can at least have something to fit in with all the anxious people. Or the, you know, it's social currency. And listen, at the end of the day,

I think most people spend time trying to figure out whether their partner was a narcissist, because you get to be in that club too. Wow, did you did a narcissist too? Were you a victim of your ex? There's a lot of bad behaviors, and a lot of it is through us, you know? And like we are not becoming a society that's more emotional.

Like yeah, we're taking care of our mental health better. You know, we are more aware about that. But a lot of people like we've just become big babies. We've become emotionally non-resilient and entitled people who feel like our feelings are just about us. And if we feel something, then everyone else needs to stop and recognize those feelings.

And everyone's doing that, and then when people don't, and then well, you know, so then you walk into a room and everyone's doing that to you, everyone's a fucking narcissist, because you're like, I'm feeling sad and no one cares. What is going on? Yeah, no, it's so fair. And everyone else is like,

well, I'm feeling angry and no one cares. And another person is like, well, I'm anxious and no one cares. I must be only hanging out with narcissists because only narcissists could see my anxiousness and not give a fuck. No, I don't blame you for thinking about it. Like, we can devalue the narcissist piece because you're right.

I mean, that would be like a whole rabbit hole to go down on whether he is or isn't. So to me, like, this call is less about, like, what your ex was. What he is is not in a relationship with you anymore. Correct. I think reflecting on just like, what are the subtleties, when you're in relationships, both like your picker,

the men you're dating, and just like as you get older, you're 28, I didn't know where it was gonna go when you were gonna describe your social life, but I was ready to say you need to grow up. I don't know if I'm in a position to say that because your social life sounds more than reasonable and a lot of fun and a lot of, I think the fact that you have this friend group

is beautiful and you should hold onto that as much as you can. That being said, friends from earlier life can prevent you from wanting to grow up. And if you really want a partner to have a family with, you're gonna have to make sacrifices. Like having one kid, we have the perfect kid. She's so fucking easy, like we're really lucky

and she's a lot of fucking work. You know, and it's just like every day, now we've had a lot going on lately, but it's like we wake up and we blink and we're late for her bath at night, you know? And we are so lucky, because we have so, we can have help.

A lot of people don't have the help that we have available to us. And it says, I'm just saying, you need a partner and you don't get to just go on monthly girl trips or quarterly girl trips, and you just might, you might find a partner who is pretty damn great and you love and you know, really just a good solid guy,

but just might be a little passive aggressive and a little emotionally needy at times that he will have to work through and maybe get therapy and couples therapy. And I'm not saying you have to, but like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know, like everything is a choice. You're not gonna find someone perfect.

And then the question becomes, is that something you need to do? You know, are you stubbornly going to these trips and whether it's your smoking weed or just having fun with your girls, do you need to be a little bit more attentive to your partner rather than being the girl who's just like, oh my God, my man's so fucking needy,

ick, ugh, God, like God, I need an alpha male. Like, I mean, even the alphas are big babies, you know? I don't complain about it, I mean, even the alphas are big babies, you know? I don't complain about it. I just go with it because I'm very, I would say I'm very easygoing as a factor of growing up in the household I did. I think my sibling. Yeah, I am too. And I'm really good at being indifferent.

I'm awesome at it. Yes. Like, it's a power. Me too. But for the people in your life that you want to, I don't know, grow a family with, you can't be, you know what I'm saying? Like, how I treat Natalie is very different than how I I don't know, grow a family with, you can't be, you know what I'm saying? Like how I treat Natalie is very different than how I treat, you know, and you could debate whether that's a good thing, but like I, you know, I love my people and other,

I am very, you know, if there's one thing I preach on this show is being mindful of your emotional energy and who you give it to and how you give it. And like, I do try to practice what I preach. And part of that is just like, I give more shits about my people than anyone else. And I don't have the bandwidth for stupidity or like people who are just like,

aren't in my fucking line of vision. No, that's exactly how I wanna be. And I'm definitely focused on the small circle at this point. And I think a lot of my buckets are filled in life. I have a wonderful family, parents who are well off and support me and are generous, but I still work a full-time job.

I provide entirely for myself. I don't want or need anything from anybody, including my parents. I have wonderful friendships. I have a lot of freedom with a remote job to explore and travel. So I'm not really looking for anything specific around help or financial support,

or I don't have any friends. Like I really need to have a family to fill my life up. That's not what I'm looking for. I do wanna have a family, I wanna have kids. I need a partner that adds value to a life that I believe is already quite full and great. I think it's hard to find a balance with a man that's like super confident,

because I think I would need a guy that's very confident and also successful, ambitious, likes to travel. What age are you dating in? I'm dating about 10 years older. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. Which maybe isn't a great thing because it hasn't worked out as well for me.

Listen, there's more bad options than good options. And just because you generally date men 10 years older than you, which I think is, I think makes a lot of sense for what you're describing. I don't think you're going to find a lot of sense for what you're describing. I don't think you're gonna find a lot of 28 year old men in a position to give you what you're looking for right now, but there's always exceptions to every rule. And you should be open to those exceptions always. Listen, like you know, you're describing a, the more standards you have for yourself, the harder it is to find someone

who can meet those standards. I mean, it is what it is. That being said, I would challenge you. And I say this as someone I think I've had to do that as I've gotten older. I mean, you're clearly a confident person. That's great. I like, that's a very valuable asset to have.

The more confident you are, the more at risk you are to like not being as self-aware as you think you are about yourself or your shortcomings or the way people talk behind your back or like ways you fall short in a relationship. You know, we all do, you know, because I think really confident people, listen, it's about, like confidence does come

from a level of fucking delusion, you know. Yeah, oh yeah. The problem with self-awareness is that it does like a little bit, it affects your confidence, you know. Going on TV, you know, you're kind of forced to become, I'm always priding myself in self-awareness, but the more self-aware I've gotten, the more insecurities have come up.

So it is a balance. It is, and I think that's a challenge for me is that I probably come off really confident, but of course I'm a human and have tons of insecurities and things that I wanna get better about or that I haven't fully accepted about myself. And so when I'm looking for a match and like, I find the really confident, like, you know, I'm also really tall.

I'm like almost five, 10. And so height comes into play where, and I feel like I've heard you talk about this on your show about like tall men or sometimes dangerous people. Um, well, they're just like, they have their pick of the litter. Right. And that's my problem is I don't really like men that act that way. people. Well, they're just like, they have their pick of the litter. Right. And that's my problem is I don't really like men that act that way. So it's like, I don't really know where to land in this space where I want someone that's

like me in a lot of ways, but then men that are like me, confident and tall and whatever, successful behave in a way that I would never accept or want around me because I have my own insecurities and I need you to be really attentive to that as well. So it's- Well, that's the thing. Maybe that's your problem. Yeah.

Maybe that's your- I think it is. I think it definitely is. You can't, you can't have such high expectations that includes only dating 1% of men. I know. And then expect them and then be so annoyed by their emotional limitations, gaps or immaturity because like, hey, you got some of yours and part of your requirement of this 1% men is

to be able to handle your emotional shortcomings. Right, right. So I think just getting a bit more clear on what my actual boundaries and like red lines are I think will help in that way but I It's like you kind of and I'm having a bit of fun with you here, but okay great You know because your confidence is important like it's a value you should cherish that But you have I think you need to be humbled a little bit. I'm getting humbled slowly, but surely.

I think that's a good perspective on it that I need it. And it's a good thing for me. You mentioned your heart. It's like, listen, you are like, people don't like you. Yeah. I could say that to literally anyone, you know? And if people don't like you. Yeah, I could say that to literally anyone. You know, and if people don't know that, you know, and the good and great news, because for anyone who I say people don't like you, then I would say you're a fake person. You can't be a real, you know, if everyone likes you, then you are an authentic person

who's just a chameleon to like, please people and you like that's don't have real opinions. please people and you like that's. You don't have real opinions. But people, but again, you can't be someone who keeps it real and all that likable. The more you keep it real, the more critics you're gonna have. So like, you know, and so I think you walk around and I can say this to you because I feel like

I have done this in life and I do this in life. You walk around as if like you're right about everything and everyone thinks you're awesome, Thorin. That's the delusion, I guess. And like you might be right, but the more right you are, the more you will piss people off. Yeah. No, that's the lesson I'm starting to learn.

And I think I've taken a much more people-pleasy route just from my childhood and the way my sibling was. And the room that was left for me to be in was to be accommodating, easygoing, don't make a fuss, don't make things harder on anybody. So I definitely have an easygoing side to me that has led into me wanting to be very people-pleasy. And as I've grown up, I'm like, I simply can't. I can't, not everyone's gonna like me, especially as I develop strong opinions about things in life.

I'm gonna see that a lot of people don't like that. I think it's what you're describing, you feel like you're at the describe of acting just kind of like you don't give a fuck about anything. I do, I'm just trying not to anymore because I'm learning that there's nothing I can do to control it. But do you act in different,

like when you're on these girl trips, are you just kind of like, like with your passive aggressive exes, are you countering their passive aggressiveness but like, oh God, I just, my God, you're so fucking annoying. No, no. And I think my friends actually critique me on that

where they're like, why you get so like in your head about them and you change the way you are around us if they're bothering you, or if they're like mad at you get so like in your head about them and you change the way you are around us if they're bothering you or if they're like mad at you or something like you're gone you're checked out for the night like you're not available anymore so I definitely take it seriously like when I was at that wedding and he was upset with me I sat and like I had a lump in my throat the whole time like I had nothing to say to anybody I was super upset and so I like in this moment what do you possibly think he's mad at?

So in this moment right now? Yeah, when you had the lump in the throat. Oh, oh. Well then he was mad that I didn't have a serious sit down conversation with him about the plus one thing or that I didn't ask or try harder to make it happen. Okay, but like, if those were the only two possibilities, regardless of his level of anger,

I feel like you can say that, well, listen, I think any logical person could think to themselves, maybe I didn't handle it the best way, maybe they're upset about it, fair. But we've only been dating for a month, and I definitely didn't do anything wrong. You know, there might have been a miscommunication. We can handle it.

But like, I know I didn't, you know what I'm saying? Like there might be an apology. You know, I'm not saying you're supposed to workshop this in your mind while at the wedding, but if you have a lump in your throat, like you can literally just be like, I mean, I didn't fuck another guy. I mean, what do I, you know, I didn't like what I don't. Yeah, like I didn't do anything. You know, the lump in the throat is this like, you know, and I get it, like, I know, I'm kind of reducing this down. But like, my point is you can't, emotional intelligence is like the ability

to process the triggering emotion that we all feel that fight or flight emotion that you know calling your our child to take over and then working through that and then having your adult self kind of be like hey you know by the way we're not we're not six anymore he might have a right to be upset i can definitely talk to him maybe there's some things i could have communicated better but like i still have the right to have fun at my friend's wedding. And I'm sure he will understand because he's an adult and like, well, this, this will be a step in the right direction, even if it caused a little frustration on his part.

Like you should be able to workshop that and then go have fun. Yeah. And I should, and I should and do, except with him, I felt like the lack of safety, the sense that he would just be done over something small like that. And so- Sure, that's harder, but like, yeah, again, you still have to be-

I have the control. You have to be able to be like, well, that would be crazy if he would leave me for this. And like, I guess he's not who I thought he was. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Because it would be crazy. No, it's 100% true.

That would be like something fucking Carrie on Sex and the City she would pull. She would do that shit. Oh, goodness, yeah, that's a great way to never do that again with Carrie from Sex and the City. No, but in that scenario, he would be Carrie. But yeah, I mean, listen, like, you know, I don't know, maybe it's some abandonment,

but like, yeah, you gotta work through, I don't know, maybe you got some abandonment issues or something, I don't know. Maybe. I'm sure a lot of people listening would say that. Maybe you do, but, you know, again, back to the, you know, it's great to be able to identify, you do, but again, back to the, it's great to be able to identify, but I have a bad habit of issues.

I think everyone does. If you've had a broken heart, if someone's fucked you up by saying, I don't want you anymore, congratulations, you have a bad habit of issues. But again, that doesn't mean that you can't work through and get better and improve. And it's not an excuse to allow yourself

to have a lump in your throat at a friend's wedding that you're supposed to enjoy because you're some guy you've been talking to for a month is being super weirdly passive aggressive for not inviting you. Right. We had been together since January at that point. So it did feel like strange that he, it doesn't matter,

but it felt strange that this was something that he couldn't have brought up. I had known about the wedding for months. This is something 22 year olds have a big fight about two months at the same timeline. Yeah, a hundred percent. It just felt unhealthy that we weren't able to deal with it in advance, but I should have handled it better. I learned a lesson about that. How to handle it, how to talk about those things. But with the Valentine's Day thing, I think I'm just in a place where it's been a month and some change now. And it's like, do I just let it go without us ever speaking again, probably and I'm okay with that, I've accepted that.

But if there are things that I contributed to this and that he genuinely believes that I have abandoned him after he opened up to me about things that were upsetting him, then I think it's worth a letter or a voice note. I don't know, something. What do you want from this? I mean, and this, like anytime you're like thinking,

oh, should I reach out to an ex, right? You really got to ask yourself, why do you want to do this? Just, really from an emotional and moral standpoint, like it is not my character for me, with anybody in my life, any ex in my life, to just like end on such a hostile note and never speak again. Like you were a big part of my life for a while.

I still want to say that all good, we're not each other's person. Sorry for the pain that caused figuring it out. But yeah, I mean, I, as someone who really like, I don't think, I appreciate you talking about your character. I honestly think we live in a time where our character isn't just something most people even consider or talk about, so I think it's great that you do.

But the way you're using the word character right now, I think it's a clever way of your ego saying, I'm not that kind of person, in a way is like an excuse to like, I mean, who gives a shit what he thinks about you? If you think this man is really not doing well out of your selfishness or your actions, and you think you're actually helping this person out by just offering him some clarity, you don't think he has, then sure.

But like, do you think he's really not fine? Do you think maybe he's just, I don't know. But like moral, like listen, I don't, this sounds like you guys had a conversation and it just kind of ended and it was almost like you're both pretty, you know, like. We're both hurt by it in different ways. I definitely think he's going through a hard time.

If you want to listen, I'm not saying don't call him, but if you want to like, if it's like a letter, I don't know. I'm scared of it. I'm scared of what he's going to say. Cause when we broke up in October, he said some pretty hurtful things to me, very niche. He would pick on a lot of things about the types of clothes I would wear,

the color of jewelry I was wearing, like very strange, peculiar things to pick up that. So, I mean, that's, you're describing a person who like when he hurt, when he's hurt, you know, like the hurt. He hurts others. Yes. But like, like that's petty. Yeah. You know, so a 40 year old man, when he gets, it gets petty and mean. And mean. We all hurt people when we hurt, but like, that's, that's just, that's petty. And so, I mean, if he's, if he's petty at 40, this is who he is. If you are going to date older men, then you should have a shorter leash.

You should hire slow, fire fast. What do you mean by that, a shorter leash? This is, 40-year-old men don't change much. If a 40-year-old man is going to lose his shit over you not inviting him to a wedding, and then be petty and mean about it and say things about how you dress in a way that's not meant to be like,

I just like that other one better. Like sometimes I've said that and I was like, oh, I probably shouldn't have said that. No, that's fine. But if he's just like, honestly your jewelry makes you look like a I was like, oh, I probably shouldn't have said that. No, that's fine. But if he's just like, honestly, your jewelry makes you look like a blah, blah, blah, and it's mean and it cuts and it hurts. And it's just like, I'm just saying, this is who they are.

You cannot expect much growth from these men. The only hope of dating someone younger and not at risk is they're not, for the ladies out there, you're dating men in their 20s, he might change, he ain't changing for you. And it's not gonna be for at least five to 10 years. So, you know, don't be waiting for any change.

But you know what I'm saying, but for you, I wouldn't be accepting a lot of bad behavior with middle-aged men. I think that's a good, good takeaway is that you're right. They're not gonna change much, no matter how much they care about me or love the idea of being with me, they're not gonna change.

That's been proven true to me time and time again. And maybe I need to have a lot more sensitivity. You definitely could find a guy who is just like, you go to his apartment and he, you know, he's got fucking baseball caps and movie posters on his wall and you're like, how old are you? Like, he just might need a good woman in his life. But like how he treats people, how he treats his girlfriend,

how emotional reactive he is, like that's- Yeah, that's not gonna change. That's not changing. Yeah, that's, and I need to be a lot more sensitive to red flags up front because we had some early squabbles that he reacted very intensely to and I felt like that was super over the top and it gave me a bad feeling inside. But again, I'm like, it's hard for me to find men that I feel like I'm very physically and lifestyle wise compatible with.

And when I have that, I make a lot of exceptions for red flags that come up because I'm like, wow, it's so hard for me to like a guy in the first place that when I do, I'm just gonna make a lot more exceptions than I should because I'm scared I'm not gonna find someone I like as much which is the age old. Gotcha.

Only dating six foot attractive. Which I don't. financially successful men, they're not. Yeah, they're pretty terrible. You're literally looking for less than 1% of people out there. Yeah, I think. Listen, aim big, I did too, but like, you know.

Yeah, there you go, you did too. You do have to accept and acknowledge that. And if your standards are gonna be that high, you better be fucking great. Right. Just know that, you better bring your A-game. Be the person you wanna attract, and that's what I try to do.

But no, I think you're right about the reaching out thing. If I think it could actually help him, the reason I feel like he's not in a great place is he's been going through a lot with his businesses and his finances, he lost his dog, all in recent times. Shit happens. Shit happens. I don't mean to sound insensitive, but like.

My fear is that, and he's now like even more alone and like in a terrible place. And all he was trying to do was just open up about things that Bothered him and then I never spoke to him again Whereas from my perspective I was really looking for some change that if something bothers you we handle it in a more healthy Constructive way and when I felt that that wasn't happening and he was getting mad about the Valentine's Day gift I got listen if you think there's something here with this guy and you reflect on this conversation

and you think, listen, there's definitely. No, there isn't. I demonstrated some red flags, he did too, and I want to clear the air, and maybe there's something there, but if this is about closure in your reputation, or I think- My ego, yeah.

Let it go, just move on. Okay, yeah, I think that's what I was looking for because something about the thought of him feeling like, wow, she ruined me, she like left me high and dry, I was trying to open up about something and she made my bad situation so much worse. That makes me feel scared. I want to reach out and clear the air over that, but I don't

think this is my person. He said things to me that my husband would never say to me and critiqued me about things that I'm so surprised would even come to his mind. Yeah. Then you definitely need to move on because- Yeah, I needed to just drop it. Like this is about your ego and it's just like, you want to claim victory or the moral high ground in this relationship, not necessarily consciously, but you realize that you said some shit too and you're not perfect. So you want to like kind of clean that mess up so that you can be right.

Yeah, I guess that's, that's part it. As right now I'm feeling like really wrong and like he's perceiving me as somebody that's hurtful and damaging and I like can't stand that. I can't stand it. Oh yeah, that's a you problem for sure. Yeah, I need to get over that. Well, I appreciate that perspective because I could have done things wrong and it's still okay.

Well, that's what's, listen, like I will, to make some excuses for you and all of us in the world, is that's the problem, the way we have taken these words like narcissism. Because the truth is, is 99% of all breakups are just breakups. And you're supposed to hate your ex, and you're supposed to fucking be angry,

and then focus on all the fucking things they said, and that if you were to describe that to a friend, they're supposed to hate them too, because they're your friend. That still doesn't mean they're a narcissist, but instead, now we've used these words to be like, oh, he's a gaslighting motherfucking narcissist, you dated a sociopath.

And bonus, now in addition to getting over him, you get to be a victim. No, I don't wanna be a victim. Now that you phrase it that way, I'm like, yeah, I don't want to be a victim. Now that you phrase it that way, I'm like, that's, yeah, I don't want to have that in my brain or in my subconscious. He's my next call. He's wondering if you're a narcissist, by the way. That is probably something he wonders too.

I think we all just, like, we have to allow people not to like us. We have to allow people to think we all just, like we have to allow people not to like us, we have to allow people to think we're their bad guy, you are the villain in probably many people's stories, I guarantee you. Yeah, I guarantee that as well. And that's okay. It's not for you to like have any feeling about,

it's really even none of your business, but like just to be aware of it and acknowledge and accept it, just let it happen. It's not an excuse to be rude and say, I don't give a fuck. You don't be kind so that other people think good things of you. You be kind because it's kind. It feels good. Yeah. I agree. All right. Well, go forth and prosper. Good luck out there. Thank you. All right. Nick, it's and prosper. Good luck out there. Thank you. All right. Nick, it's great talking to you.

I listen to your podcast all the time. Well, thank you for listening. I appreciate it. It was nice talking with you. All right. Take care. Thanks for having me. Bye.

All right. Bye-bye. Well, you know how much we love our dogs, Steve and Jeff. Well, we want to make sure they're around as long as possible without costing us too much. And that's why we are so grateful for the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program because today's episode is brought to you by the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program. In today's world, we insure a lot from cars to homes to cell phones and even travel plans. But what about insurance

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Well, it's almost boating season. And do you have a pair of Vessi shoes to keep your feet comfy and dry while you're out there boating. Well, if not, you are missing out. And maybe you're not boating, I don't know. But chances are you're about to get outdoors with the weather warming up and make sure wherever you go,

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in the rain with wet socks and wet shoes because you stepped in a puddle and you don't have waterproof Vessi shoes on. Yeah, what a way to just have a terrible rest of your day if you're going to work in the morning, you step in a puddle and it rains unexpected and your feet are wet. Well, not with Vessi, their shoes are 100% waterproof,

not water resistant. They have a wonderful lineup of great sneakers. Absolutely love it. You gotta check out Vessi if you haven't already. The Weekend Sneaker is honestly a perfect gift for anyone who Nick was saying is boating, anyone who is maybe like- Outdoorsy, indoorsy.

Anyone who is like a fishing, a hiking, any type of outdoorsy adventurous person, the Week sneaker is such a perfect gift for them because it's A, very comfortable, B, waterproof, it's temperature regulating, it's breathable, it's lightweight, it's machine washable for easy care. Pack smarter and travel better with Vessi. Visit vessi.com slash viall now for 15% off your first pair at checkout and start exploring with confidence. How's it going? It's good. My name's Sierra. I'm 25 and I'm wondering if I should move on from a rekindled

situationship. Yes, but let's talk about why. Let's figure out why. I could be wrong. I could be wrong, but I'm 99% sure that the answer is's gonna be yes at the end of this call. But I wanna change our mindset, right? And I want you to think about why am I having a hard time moving on from this situationship? It should be the question that we focus on during this call.

Right. Tell me what you wanted to talk about. So there's a little bit of context to this. I started talking to my situationship from about a year and a half ago. We had a more friends with benefits kind of relationship. I wanted to be with him and be in a committed relationship, but he told me he wasn't ready for anything serious. And I did the number one thing that a lot of girls do.

And I gave him the benefits, hoping that it would lead into something more. You try to show him how great of a girlfriend you could be. Exactly. A little bit more context is we actually went to high school together. So we've known each other for a while. And we were friends in high school. And then during the time we had started talking, it just didn't go anywhere. So I decided like, hey, this isn't going to work.

You're not picking me. So I'm going to move on and start seeing other people. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. So I started dating someone else. It was about eight months and then it didn't work out. I didn't feel like we were good fit. And when I broke up with him, my situationship showed back up after he found out we broke up a couple of weeks later and was like, hey, I messed this up, I regret losing you, and I wanna do it right this time. When was that? That was about two months ago. And is he your boyfriend now?

He's not my boyfriend. So then I guess he's not doing it right. Yeah, so he says that he doesn't want to move too fast. Yeah, I don't know what that means. Yeah. I mean, listen, I'll cut him a little slack because like, I've been on a whole like, shooting in our current climate of dating. But yeah, like I know a lot of people are afraid of labels and titles.

But you guys had a whole, I don't know, year of time. You know each other, you've had sex and God only knows what else. You've spent some real time. Thinking about situationship is ridiculous as they are and as much of a waste of time as they are. You can still really get to know someone to a level of developing emotional intimacy, even if it is a bit one-sided. It certainly has its limits because it's often one-sided, but you can really do that. If he is saying that in this period of time where you dated another guy and it really fucked with him and then he realized that he made a mistake and then you break up with

him and he's just knocking on your door. It's just like, why is it so hard to be like, listen, I don't know if this is gonna work or not, but let's just be boyfriend and girlfriend. And then, I don't know, maybe in a week we'll break up. But I do know I spent the past six months just regretting my decision to let you go and then you date another guy

and I thought I was never gonna get another chance. So like, I wanna show you what it's like to be a boyfriend and I wanna show you how I can be and let's get to know each other. Let's develop our emotional, like, why can't he do that? Yeah, so to answer your question, I would say, so because we had this situation in the past, I will say he's shown up very differently.

Okay. He's a lot more emotionally available and he hasn't this time around said, oh, I'm not ready for a relationship where I can't give you what you need. He hasn't said that this time. It's actually been the opposite. He seems like he's more of an avoidant type of man, so feelings are scary for him. And I would say he's pretty good at telling me

when he's struggling, like connecting or he needs space. I'm very much the opposite. So we're kind of like, it's a hard balance. How much do you cater to his needs versus him catering to yours? Yeah, so the first time around, I catered to his needs versus him catering to yours? Yeah. So the first time around I catered to his needs a lot. This time around I've kind of taken a step back and I'm trying to assess if this is really

something that I can make work. He has shown up for me. How old is he? 25. So the difference this time is he's actually pursued me. He's taken me on dates. He got me a gift for Valentine's Day. He got me flowers and like AirPods, which was nice of him. And it kind of gets rocky because it's just hot and cold with him. So sometimes it seems like he's 100% in and then he'll be like, I don't know, 50 50. If this was the first guy, if this was a guy that you were describing, that you've only known for two months, then I would say give it time. But this isn't a guy

you've only known for two months. This is a guy that you have a lot of history with. It's always interesting, because when people are in relationships, bad ones usually, not that people are usually in bad ones, but when people aren't bad ones, they usually will stay in bad relationships because, I know he's been dating for so long. And then when people start rekindle old situationships,

they wanna just conveniently pretend that first chapter or second or third or fourth or how many chapters they have because a lot of situationships have chapters. This could just be your second chapter, you're both relatively young, and you could have six more to go before you finally are just done with this bullshit. Again, or maybe you marry him. Maybe don't, you know, like maybe I could be wrong, you know?

Like you guys are young and like I'm not trying to diminish like the progress he's made, but you are giving me signs of a lot of people in your position I'm very familiar with. And I feel like, and no fault of your own, because I think you are making a concerted effort, you walked away from this guy that clearly was not easy, that was definitely, that was progress.

That was something you should really be proud of yourself for. It's understandable that you let him back in, but you clearly want this relationship to happen and you like him and you're just, you're biased. You're just, you want this to work. So like his shortcomings you want to like give him the benefit of the doubt. You want to like discover that he's avoided whatever issues that he can't help or that therapy can fix and you know

and I just got off a call with someone completely different situation. She's dating men in their mid to late 30s, 40s, right? And one of the pieces of advice, as I said to her, it was like, listen, I wouldn't stick around for bad behavior with these 40-year-old men because this is who they are. I said, at least with the 20-year-olds, there's like hope for them to change. And I said to the people listening,

don't take that as reassurance because they're not gonna change for you. It's gonna take five or 10 years for these men who have whatever issues that are, maybe they are avoided, maybe they're reactive, maybe they're avoided and reactive, whatever it is. We are emotionally very, well, yeah. We should be more, we're far more emotionally immature

in our 20s than we should be in our 30s or 40s, right? But all I'm saying is this, it was great that he came back and it was great that he fought for you. And I really liked that he's definitely made improvements. But these are some bare minimum shit you're describing and you're just like, wow, he got me a Valentine's Day gift and they were AirPods and I'm a lucky girl.

And I think what I'm saying is I think you could ask a lot more of him. I think you could just act like some baddie who's just like, I don't have fucking time for your bullshit anymore. And just tell him exactly what you want. And if he can't give it to you, regardless if it's because he needs more therapy, he's avoidant, he has a whatever his excuse is, it's not your problem. And you just don't have time for it.

Because there are people out there who are ready to date you. Yeah, I agree. I have given him, I would say more recently, kind of the cold shoulder. So I've been a little bit. That's just a tactic, you know what I'm saying? That's just a, it's just, you're playing games.

I don't think you're gonna listen to this advice, at least not yet, you know? But if I were you, I'd get off this call, and the next time you talk to him, I'd be like, listen, you're either my boyfriend or you're not. And I'm not asking you to marry me, but like, if you can't just be my boyfriend and be comfortable with the label,

then you are not just in a position to be the type of person I'm looking for. It's just like, that's not that hard. And you should treat him like the person you want to date. You are treating him like a little boy that you like and you're trying to mold into the man that you want to date. I don't agree with that. You don't? No, I don't. I don't think that I'm doing that. I actually genuinely like who he is as a person. So I would say he has a lot of fundamental qualities that I

look for. But what about the, yeah, but why can't he just be your boyfriend? Like why? Yeah. look for. But what about the, yeah, but why can't he just be your boyfriend? Like why? Yeah. Why does he need more time? Like, I want to say because he, this is what he's told me that he, his last relationship, like absolutely broke his heart. He was in love with her. And how long ago was that? That was right before we had started talking the first time. Okay.

And now he says that he's over her and he's over that, but I think that's why it's hard for him to step into something that's committed because he's scared to get his heart broken again. And that's understandable, and I appreciate his vulnerability, but that doesn't mean you don't have the right to challenge him or push back.

And that pushing back could be like, listen, thank you for sharing. And yeah, I'm scared too. I've been, I don't know, have you ever been burned? Yes. Okay, so you're like, I've been burned too. Again, us calling each other boyfriend and girlfriend, honestly, it doesn't really mean much.

It just means that I can just call you my fucking boyfriend. We still have a lot to learn about each other. I don't know. Yeah, and yeah, I wanna take that slow with you too. Nothing really needs to change other than the fact that these weird excuses of why you can't be my boyfriend. But let's definitely take it slow.

And I don't know, we can't promise each other we're not gonna hurt each other. That's emotional maturity. Emotional maturity is like, yeah, like 18, 19, 21, 20, we fuck each other up. I always like to use that car analogy, right? This love and dating is this crazy thing and it has such an impact on our lives.

And we get into it with absolutely no experience and it's no an impact on our lives. And we get into it with like absolutely no experience. And it's like no different than getting into like a Lamborghini driving for the very first time and like being like, sorry, I don't know how to drive this thing, you know? But that's what we do, right? And so, yeah, but like you're supposed to have some progress. And so you are just, and you know,

I probably sounded harsh and I'm sorry, but like are just and you know, I'm probably sounded harsh I'm sorry, but like when I say boy, I'm sure he's a good guy a lot of boys are you do need to expect more from him You know, you're kind of talking as if like, you know, it's like yeah, you've had a broken heart But I guess that's no but man, he's a guy with a broken heart and boy he just he needs to be really taken care of You know? Yeah, I would say I am a very nurturing person. That's awesome. I've hold his feelings very highly and all those around me. I think that, so a couple of weeks ago for a little bit more context, we had gotten into a little,

I don't want to say argument, but it was a disagreement about something. And for whatever reason, it made him just like completely pull away and was like, I don't know if I can give you what you want right now. What was this over? You're not going to like this. Listen, I have no opinion. I'm just, I'm trying to just give you my, well, I have opinion, but I don't care.

I really, what I want is for you to be happy. And the difference between you and I right now is I'm open to your happiness being in the long run. And right now you wanna be happy today. I mean, I am happy today, despite him. But you know what I'm saying? I don't know of the answer. I just don't know. But I would love for you to get your way. I would love for the guy to be, you know, but the go-ahead.

So yeah, what happened was I was in Hawaii on just a solo trip and there was a time difference. I don't have my Snapchat notifications on, so he had Snapchatted me and I just happened to be on Snapchat at the time. And I went to click on the Snapchat and he immediately unsent it. And I called him out on it. I was like, hey, why'd you unsend that Snapchat? And he's like, oh, I thought you were asleep. It was for my friend. I was like, Hey, why'd you unsend that Snapchat? And he's like, Oh, I thought you were asleep.

It was for my friend. I was like, okay. He was like, she's in my class. I was like, okay, what? Yeah, she. I said, okay, is this a girl that has a crush on you? Because I know there's someone in his class that has a crush on him. He said, no, it's this other girl who also likes girls, so she's gay. So yeah, she definitely likes me. He was like being very sarcastic. And I was like, all right, whatever. Like, it's not a big deal.

But since we haven't had this conversation, are we exclusive? If we're doing the whole talking, getting to know each other thing. Are you seeing other people? You brought this up. Are you, I did in this, at this point in time, cause I was frustrated.

Or are you seeing other people? And he said, no, we're exclusive. I'm not talking to anyone else, but we aren't in a comm, like we aren't in a relationship. I said, that's fine. Like I get it. So I was more concerned at like what the context of the Snapchat was because I thought it was really strange.

Was it a picture or was that a message? It was, but I couldn't see it. What was the picture? Did you ask him? No, I didn't ask him because I just like whatever at this point. So that's what happened. And he said the way I had reacted to it was not something that he liked. He said it was kind of a red flag of me. I'm thinking. Yeah, this is not good.

You have so many red flags. I think one of my most famous lines on this show in Ask Nick was, your boyfriend likes having a girlfriend, he doesn't want to be a boyfriend. And this is a guy who very much sounds like he does enjoy having you around. Definitely, that's clear. You do bring value to his life. He really probably missed you emotionally taking care of him when you had a boyfriend. And now that he has you back

He's very glad and I'm guessing the difference between For him is an exclusive relationship Versus like whatever, you know committed or whatever the bullshit is that like he thinks that gives him permission Snapchat girls and even kind of lie about it because like the lying is just like, well, she would get mad. He convinces himself that she would get mad and I'm not doing anything wrong. So all of this lie, which is like one of the most common and immature things people do in relationship is convince themselves they're right. And then lie about it because they know if they told their partner the truth, they would get mad and then it's weirdly not lying. It is stopping from their partner from overreacting. And you know, my gut tells me that's what he's doing.

I agree with you. That's where my gut feeling went too. So after that conversation, he told me that he needed some time to reflect and think. And at that point, I was pretty fed up. So I gave him his space. It was like five days. I didn't reach out to him because I was like, if you want to be with me, if you want to continue to pursue me or see me, this is the balls in your court now. I'm not doing that again. I'm not

going to chase you like I did the first time because I don't have the energy for it. So I didn't talk to him for five days. I didn't text him. I didn't call him. And every single day he would check in with me at least once and tell me, oh, I miss you. I am just like in my head right now. And I basically told him, I don't care if you miss me, you can miss me and not wanna move forward with me. Like that doesn't mean anything to me. Like don't talk to me and waste my time

if you're not gonna move forward and like we're not gonna continue to get to know each other. So the five days goes by, he says he wants to talk in person. We meet up and he's telling me like, I do want to continue moving forward. I just don't want to move too quickly. So I agreed because at the same time, I was like, you know what? Right now, after your behaviors of that specific incident, I wasn't like, oh, I wanna make you my boyfriend right now

too, because I also have the option. So it also put a bad taste in my mouth, that situation. I hear you. So I was like, you know what, I'm fine with that. Yeah, but you're still just as emotionally invested. Yes. Yeah, so it really, I as emotionally invested. Yes. Yeah. So it really, I don't know.

It's really up to you. The through line of everything I talk, it doesn't matter what the call is, right? It just comes down to managing your emotional energy. And you get to pick where it goes. And I honestly find that the key to happiness is getting better at prioritizing where you spend your emotional energy. Do you spend it on things that make you happy or do you spend it on things that make you sad or anxious or whatever? And despite you liking this guy, he doesn't make you happy.

He does give you the opportunity to use and express a love language and I think when you do care for this man emotionally, it brings you value because like you probably have a very nurturing heart and acts of service is probably a love language of yours. So it's not like completely one sided but like he doesn't make you all that happy. Your emotional energy is usually around him anxious and confused and frustrated and just like questioning things constantly because like it's always on his terms and sometimes you can convince yourself that his terms match your terms when you also don't want to like because he's being a dick or you know overreacting or just like kind of acting like tonight you know

maybe a little even gaslighty, you know, potentially is mad at Snapchatting other girls and telling you he can't do this because he doesn't like how you're acting. And he's seen red flags from you. And again, you're you're you're right. He's not your he's not your boyfriend. So like, you know, but he is operating in the gray on purpose. And he doesn't want to acknowledge that. And probably because he's convinced himself that he is operating in the gray on purpose and he doesn't want to acknowledge that. And probably because he's convinced himself that he is the victim.

Yeah, probably. You know, because I'm sure his broken heart was broken. You know, I'm sure it really fucked him up. Like, and I think honestly, the advice I gave to the, I'm sure he's a great guy, but right now, it doesn't sound like he's the man that you want to date and the man that probably is deserving of you.

And I don't, I wouldn't expect a ton of progress from this person anytime soon. And you are setting yourself up for a very long and a very emotional like up at rollercoaster with this person that could last years and almost never ends the way you want. The bright side, if you opt into this journey, is that you'll learn a lot about yourself, you know, but it'll be some real tough lessons that I hope that you choose to avoid. I didn't, I did not choose to avoid them.

Yeah, I also, I have a more traditional outlook on relationships too, so I definitely, I'm younger, but I do wanna find my person and like settle down at an earlier age, I would say. But I agree with you. Like maybe he's just not there or he's not there. We know that. Yeah.

So. But I, you know, in the meantime, because I don't know if you're ready to let him go, maybe just practice, like just not accepting his bullshit, you know? Just tell him what you want. He can set your boundaries and force your boundaries. He can accept them or not. That's his choice.

But just be the assertive person who's just like, you know what? That's not good enough. And these aren't red flags. I asked a very simple question like, why aren't you messaging other girls on snapchat like you and again It's fine if you are but like you did come to me and say I'm sorry. I almost lost you I'm ready to be there you you literally asked for a second fucking chance with me You asked me and you have the nerve to be getting mad at me because I'm Questioning why you're messaging other sending pictures to other girls

Listen like I know this is tough love Nick and I'm being hard but like and I only just because it's just like you're a veteran Pivotal partying of life right now and you know, I don't know if you realize it this person could really fuck you up Like this is a this is a story as old as time. Oh, that's great. I love hearing that. I mean, you know. I agree. Yeah. You can learn a lot about yourself, you know.

But the good news is, is like people who are in your position, like you're gonna find your person because the trick for you is to find someone who really is gonna because clearly You are willing to give in a relationship that that's obvious You are willing to do your part your problem is you're you're too willing to do their part, too And then convince yourself that they need you and then you feel good about that And you just can't do that right because the more of their part that you do,

they start thinking it's their part to do it too. They're like, oh, it's like dating the guy whose mom did his laundry the whole time and he's just like, oh, I don't do laundry. Now I also don't do laundry because I fucking hate laundry and it turns out my wife loves it and I will do the dishes. Yeah, I would say I do struggle with that in relationships I tend to have a more dominant personality. So I think I kind of seek out men who, I don't wanna say are below me,

but maybe at a different point in life and different lifestyle than me. That's self-aware, yeah. Yeah, and it's something that I- Do you want a partner or do you want a guy to provide and give you kids? Because honestly, like some men and women get into relationships for different reasons.

Some people have partners, some people have husbands. I want a partner. I want someone who's able to provide. I think because my career is so demanding, I have very high expectations. I know it doesn't seem like it, but I do. I hope this doesn't sound condescending, but you're still relatively, you're young

and you're still figuring it out what your boundaries and standards and expectations should be. So as long as you're learning through this experience, it's fine. But learning means reducing the amount of second chances and doing the same thing over and over. Yeah. So I guess I should just maybe see like if he changes

since we said we would agree to move forward and like get to know each other or should I set a hard date, like if he doesn't ask me to be his girlfriend by this time. I wouldn't set a date. I mean, if you're gonna set a date, that date should be today.

Because again, what you're asking is the lowest of lows. You are saying, all you're asking is like, yeah, I wanna be okay with you not snapchatting other girls. Point blank period. I want to just trust that you want to, you have to see if this guy wants to be a boyfriend. He does not want to be a boyfriend. All right. And so being exclusive to you is, but it's like, he just doesn't want to have, he's fine with, he doesn't really want to have sex with other girls.

Oh, we're not having sex. That was a boundary that I made when we started talking again. I told him that there's going to be no intimacy this time around unless we're in a committed relationship. So he's not getting any of those benefits this time. Those benefits and that's, I'm glad you do that. But then that tells me he benefits in other areas from you. Like, cause clearly he likes having you around, but what are you getting from him?

Yeah, that's a great question. Other than the opportunity to have him. Yeah, he does bring things to the table. Like, he does things. He does things for me. Like if I'm sick, he'll check in on me and he'll bring me super food. So he does these things.

That's why I say it's like this gray area because he'll do these boyfriend things and take care of me or ask me if I'm okay. And check in on me. What is he willing to give up for you? That's a good question. He's very work oriented and-oriented, I would say. I wouldn't say selfish, but he definitely puts himself first,

which is what I would ask my partner to do anyways. That's great. And listen, what is he willing to give up for you doesn't really have to be a lot. It shouldn't be each other's careers or jobs, sort of like you guys having these, it really shouldn't be much. All it should be is peace of fucking mind. You know, like the ability, what he needs to be willing to give up for you is 100% in complete autonomy

and freedom, you know. He has to give up the ability to do whatever he wants when he wants because if you're an adult who is single, who doesn't have kids, then no one gets to tell you what to do outside of work. And that's what he needs to do whatever he wants when he wants because if you're an adult who is single who doesn't have kids then no one gets to tell you what to do outside of work. You answer to no one and that's kind of fun and if you want a girlfriend or a boyfriend on some level. You have to give some things up shouldn't be much but if it means just not snapchatting other girls or flirting with girls or just the freedom to not say, well, I can't do that

because I have a girlfriend. That's what he doesn't want to give up. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely something that I could sit down and ask him and see how the conversation goes. He doesn't know the answer. You need to know that answer. This is not about you guys agreeing on this. It's just you need to know that answer. This is not about you guys agreeing on this.

It's just you need to know that so that you can say that's fucking crazy. And so that's why I'm just gonna be like, do you wanna be my boyfriend or not? And again, to reiterate, you just like, if that's too much for you, you're not, because I'm not, we have a lot, we should take it slow

for sure. I want to know that you wanna be my boyfriend and that you wanna, the basics of being a boyfriend like just, you know. When I ask him these things and he tells me he feels pressured, is that just the way of a guy saying like I'm not ready yet but I'm just gonna stick around until maybe I'm ready. It might be true, but do you want to of a guy saying like, I'm not ready yet, but I'm just gonna stick around until maybe I'm ready.

It might be true, but like, do you want to date a guy who feels pressured? I mean, that sounds kind of, when you break it down, it's kind of weak and pathetic. No, I don't. I would challenge him. It's just like that, bro, you, come on. If that makes you feel pressure, man,

I don't know what his line of work is, but like, bro, you know? Yeah, he does have a pretty stressful job too, so. Oh, if that's too much for him, then, you know? Yeah, I think that's another- So that's the thing, you don't even have to like analyze or ask your friends, be like, is this an excuse?

Like take him at his word. But if you're really taking him at his word, what does that say about him? That he's not ready. Or that he's like, kind of a weak person. Because some guy who feels pressured by some girl, he's spent, if you add up all the time, like how many months have you guys been dating

if you include all the times your situations have started? Like 10 months. 10 months. And 10 months, he feels pressure because the girl he's been dating for 10 months just wants to know if he can be his boyfriend. And then keep in mind, you guys can break up literally the next day

and that's too much for him? I don't have an answer. I mean, it's a good perspective to reflect on. I can, it's definitely. Is that the man that you want protecting your children who feels pressured by a label? No. Like what kind of, like, imagine the,

but Sarah, you know, that's what I'm saying. Like obviously he probably is just full of shit and you know, whatever. But the point is you can protect your emotional energy and waste a lot less time by just taking people at their word and seeing them for who they are by the way they act and how they described their limitations to you. You know you should treat them like the boyfriend you want and the person he is. And what I mean by that is it's like, in terms of your standards, your standards should be, this is the boyfriend I want. Not, well, this, but like he can't do it because he's avoided.

Well then, that's a him problem. And then in terms of like, treat him how he acts, well, if he acts like a guy who can't handle pressure, then ask yourself, do I want a guy who can't handle pressure, then ask yourself, do I want a guy who can't handle pressure to be my man? Yeah, I do know. I don't want a man like that. I want quite the opposite, actually.

So yeah, if you want a man, you gotta treat him like a man. All right, yeah, I could do that. I actually have a pretty cold side to me if I need to. All right, let's tap in it with this guy. Listen, I'm giving you some very direct and tough love, but you have a lot going for you, you are really young. You did a lot of things faster than I would have at your age.

So just see it through. All right, I will do that. All right, take care. I would love an update, whatever you decide with this guy in the future. I can definitely give you an update. I'm invested. All right, thank you.

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Hi, I'm doing well. My name is Diana. I'm 29 and I'm wondering how I can get closure from my ex who dropped me in one day. What do you mean by one day? In 24 hours it went from I will do anything to be with you and I am willing to make lots of sacrifices to 24 hours later saying there's no chance in hell I'm going to do any of that. Like verbatim? Not verbatim.

There's a lot of context. How long were you guys dating for? We dated for a year and a half. Oh, okay. What were you asking of him? So I was asking him to convert to Judaism for me. Okay. Yeah, which is obviously not a small ask,

which I know, and it was an ongoing conversation. Is he religious? he was raised very religious and Had a lot of trauma around religion. He was raised Christian. Okay, and Yeah had a negative experience. Gotcha with that and I'm just curious I don't even know if this is really helpful for your question, but I'm curious, so thanks for indulging me. But it's helpful context in case it might. When you were asking him to convert, what is your relationship with your faith?

How hardcore are you? Is it more like, listen, I just want my partner to be Jewish. Yeah, I go to synagogue once in a while, but I go every week, and if I get married to the man who I have kids with, I want us to like have a community and go to, you know, and, but like, I don't need you to like be like reading the Bible and, you know, be hardcore and I honestly don't even

really care if you even buy any of this stuff. I just want you to kind of be a part of my community or were you like expecting him to like believe? The first option. Okay. I was raised like relatively traditional, but as I've grown up, I sort of have my own relationship to religion. I don't consider myself religious at all, actually.

It's much more of like a cultural thing for me, which, you know, he came around to the holidays, he met my family, he came around to the holidays. He met my family. He understood sort of my stance on it. It's much more for me. It's just important that, you know, my future family, our future kids would be raised with a certain level of understanding of their culture, their background, etc. I totally get it. I totally get it.

I just wasn't sure which one it was. Yeah. How long were you guys having a conversation about this? So it was always sort of on the table and it was the kind of thing where like I have only ever dated Jewish guys seriously. This was my first time being in a serious relationship with someone who didn't share that. So I was kind of using the time to figure out

if it was actually super important to me. And I think he was taking the time to consider for himself if it is something he was willing to do. It wasn't until December of last year where I made the firm sort of like, it is a deal breaker for me. Kind of after a year-ish of- What does this process look like?

I'm just curious. I'm honestly not entirely sure. I think it's different depending on like which Rabbi you go to I think it can be Relatively chill a couple months of like once a week doing a course It depends like how observant how religious you are, but I would probably opt for like a middle of the road So what is middle of the road? Or I don't know like a it's called conservative

like not orthodox but I know a bunch of people who have converted and it's just like a couple months of. And why. Horses. And I don't know if I'm fully like I'm if there was a path of least resistance and like a drive-by rabbi could just be like, you know what, you're Jewish now. Why wouldn't you opt for that if something like that were available? Right, and I think something like that is available, but I do want there to be a little bit of interest on my partner's end.

At what pace and what's your limit? I mean, understand the holidays, understand like the stories. Yeah, the stories, the history of, you know, it's a rough history. Like just understand, have that context and like be kind of knowledgeable enough to know what the holidays are when they happen. I'm curious. you mentioned rough history, obviously I'm familiar with what you're speaking of

and obviously the anti-Semitism in this world right now is at a scary level. But that's my question to you is like, forget about the conversion part. Did you feel like your non-Jewish boyfriend empathized with you as a Jewish person in your community and the plight that Jewish people have to endure on a regular basis. And do you feel like at the holidays he had participated with you, do you feel like he

picked up on and at least educated himself, whether he believed and actually personally gave his shit, but just like how well, how much? First question, yes, I think he did empathize with the plight of what it is to be a Jewish person and some of the everyday struggles and difficulties and challenges that we have to face. With the holiday part, I definitely got the vibe that he was coming to these things with my family for me. There wasn't a lot of curiosity or willingness to be like, let me see what this is all about. It was very much just like, we're going to this dinner tonight and I am participating, but there wasn't really any questions, any curiosity. It was just like an obligation.

Listen, I think it's just a very interesting, you can't make someone believe. 100%. Right? So if we understand that, then you have to like really, I think be real with yourself about like, what you really are asking someone when you're asking them to convert. And I think you have to be really honest with yourself about what you really are asking someone when you're asking them to convert.

And I think you have to be really honest with yourself about the importance of the idea of something versus the reality of something. Because if what I'm hearing from you, and we'll get into the, but I am fascinated by this conversation. I know, it's a good one. When you get into the, will you convert for me?

It's just like, again, you can't make people believe. I can give a bit more context as to like what I told him as to why it would be important for me. Okay. It's very nuanced and I don't think he ever fully like wrapped his head around it. But what I sort of told him was that like, I would be willing to, like if he were to convert

Hmm, it would signify to me that like even if we do have differences in opinion about how we want to raise a family and you know how we want to be a Jewish Couple Jewish family even if we did experience differences about that like him converting to me tells me that we are Like a team and that we are both willing to sacrifice things together and like carve our own path as a like unique sort of Jewish couple. Are you guys engaged? Were you engaged? No, no, we were not. We talked about it though, like we kind of had our- Just out of curiosity. The next couple years planned out. I'm totally on board with, and just out of curiosity,

when you talked about this, what was the timeline in which you needed this? Like now? Like an answer. His willingness to convert. Well, I kind of told him, and this is, I didn't need him to convert right away. It's more like if we were to get married,

that would be a step that he would have to take. But in terms of like, I need an answer. When I'm turning 30 this year and I was like, I don't really want to be like turn 30 in a relationship. I'm unsure about. So that was sort of my. That makes sense. Yeah.

It's just, there are subtleties obviously with that line of questioning and cause like for him, converting is getting married. Yes. I mean, we definitely talked about marriage. The relationship was very serious. Yeah, totally. I'm just saying, maybe you already assumed this, but the process of him converting,

he's only converting because he would marry you. So he definitely doesn't want to do that with a girlfriend like he definitely doesn't wanna do that with a girlfriend. And the idea of talking about that with a girlfriend, even though you guys, I mean, I don't know the seriousness of your relationship, but like it's just, even if he was willing to do it for his wife, so to speak, you know,

he still needs to make sure that he wants this person to be his wife. And so I think I would imagine it's challenging to like, this is the idea of converting a religion for anyone. I think it's like, especially if they have a history with religion, I mean, and he does, right? Like it's tough. I know, I should have known from the jump,

but it was a very strong relationship. So I know you say don't rely on hope, but I was like, and there were signs over the year and a half that he was like kind of down. So it was very much just hanging onto those. What was the summary of your pitch to him and what was his response? I guess the summary is kind of what I said before.

I always have known that I wanted a Jewish partner. I've only ever been in serious relationships with Jewish partners. I love this man so much that there were certain things that I know I was willing to bend on. For example, Christmas, like I went to his family's and had a great time. And I think there is a way that we could have made that work

for our future family. But again, what I told him was like him converting is signifying to me that like we are a team, we are this unique Jewish couple that together will make decisions that we both agree on versus if we ended up together and he didn't convert, I feel like we would kind of always just be at odds and that's kind of how I pitched it. Okay.

And, but when you said, are you saying it your willingness to convert or are you saying if we get married married knowing that you would be willing to convert when we get married is important to me? No, it wasn't that because I never really doubted that. It wasn't what? We were very serious. Like I knew that he envisioned marriage with me. Yeah, but I.

Like it wasn't a question of like. I've envisioned marriage with people I didn't end up marrying. I've envisioned marriage with girlfriends I dated for a week. I'm just saying- We talked about our future, we talked about our kids, we talked about our- I don't doubt it, but I think the disconnect,

and I just, listen, I- Maybe I'm not understanding the question properly. I feel for you because, you know, also I really liked the show. I'm sure you watched it. I don't know how you feel about it We watched it together Nobody wants this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah

We watched it together. It was like low-key kind of awkward Interesting, but this is a man that you said has known your importance of marrying someone in the Jewish faith has talked to you about marriage and has at times in the Jewish faith has talked to you about marriage and has at times expressed to you a willingness to possibly do this. And then overnight, your words. Well, there was a fight that led to a war. I don't doubt it.

But it doesn't matter. And that's what I'm trying to get to, is what did you say in that fight? And what did he hear that caused? So the fight was about something else. Okay. What I still wanna know is. The fight was about something, okay, okay. I still want to know is... The fight was about something...

Okay. Okay. If we're talking about... I just like, to me, it's just like, what changed? You know? And like... Well, I can tell you what changed. It was a fight about something else, which is part of the complexity of the story.

What was the fight about? So we had a conversation about conversion maybe a week prior to this fight. He sort of expressed some concerns. We had a long about conversion maybe a week prior to this fight. He sort of expressed some concerns. We had a long chat about it. I explained to him, like he asked a few questions, I explained to him and then we left that chat. I left that chat feeling great. Like his mind sort of shifted. I think he had a perception about what it would be like and I was able to kind of explain to him that that wouldn't be the case. So I kind of like eased his mind in a few ways about what that process would be like.

And we left that chat feeling great. At the same time, and I'm going to try to keep it short because it's a long story, but I was going for a job that I was recruited for. I had done two calls with the recruiter and my meeting with the team was scheduled for later that week. I think it was on the day that I went in for that interview, they also reached out to him, my ex. We work in the same field. We met at work, we were coworkers. It was like a very cute. So now you're competing for the same-

Coworkers somewhere else. Same dream job? So I had already interviewed and he was cheering me on. He was saying, it was like a now you're competing for the workers somewhere else. Same dream job. So I had already interviewed. And he was cheering me on. He was saying, call me in the morning, we can go over some questions, you're a shoo in for this job, you're gonna kill it. Then they reached out to him. And he told me he wanted to go for it. I expressed to him that that would hurt my feelings. But ultimately, I was

like, I can't stop you from going for this job. I ultimately want success for you. Because like if he gets a good job with a big, nice salary increase, I also benefit from that. Right. So yeah, hopefully, hopefully. So I said to him, I don't know, I, you were very much supporting me, you told me I was a shoo-in. It just feels a little bit icky to me that you would say these things and help me prep for the interview and help me pick out my outfit. And then the same day-

You don't think competitors can't help each other out? It was kind of tough. Some of the people that I asked, some of my friends were like, may the best man win. Other people were like, your man should be your biggest cheerleader and supporter. And if he's cheering you on

for a role you're shooting for, you shouldn't go for it. So. Yeah, but you hear me say there's exceptions to every rule and this is a very unique situation. I know. Where you're in the exact same line of work and you're both career oriented, ambitious people who potentially could be put in a position

to compete for the same dream job. And in that situation, that doesn't apply to most people. people who potentially could be put in a position to compete for the same dream job. And in that situation that doesn't apply to most people, yeah, it's hard, you have to consider the variables for people to be like, well, your man should, well, maybe, yeah, sure. I mean, but when it comes to that, for me, my brain was just like, you gotta have to try

to separate that in a way, or just acknowledge that it's not the same as your friend and her partner and, you know, because they, they literally can't compare, you know, so for them to say, well, well, Mark would blah, blah, blah. It's like, how do you know what Mark would do? Yeah, no, it is something that I kind of did struggle with. And that's sort of why I, there was not one time never that I said, do not go for it.

I said, you can like a hundred percent, if you want to go for it. I mean, you fought about it so clearly. I said, if you want to go for it, go for it. Just know that it does, it upsets me. I feel a little bit weird about it. It's not sitting a hundred percent right with me, but ultimately like, if this is a choice

that you wanna make, you can make that choice. But do you understand how someone hearing those words would take that? Yes, for sure. It's just like, there's no point in like, softening that message, cause they don't hear any of the softening. They just hear, I feel weird about it.

I'm very unsettled by this. You know, they're not hearing, I'm not telling you no, and you should go for it if you want it. You know, that's not what they're hearing. They're just hearing all the way as you're pissed off about it. I guess. I just didn't know another way to, I think you just, yeah.

You know, listen, like, yeah, I mean, mean, listen, but I think the way you set, it's just like, just own your feelings at least, is what I'm saying. Yeah, yes I did, and there were times that I was like, look, I don't know why I'm feeling this triggered by it, or I don't know why it's upsetting me this much. So you at least acknowledge that, maybe you weren't right to feel the way you felt.

Yes. Okay. And how did he respond? So it was a few days of kind of back and forth at first. He was like, no, you know, I don't think I should go for it. Like they came to you first. And then the next day he was like, Ooh, you know, they keep asking me for a call. And he was really involving me and in his decision.

And he was really involving me in his decision. And at a certain point, I remember he was off work for a few days and I was at work and he was texting me these paragraphs about it. And I was busy and kind of at this point, it had been days of this ongoing chat. So the texts literally say, if you would 100% take this job, if you got it, you should go for it. I will not stand in your way of going for this job

Like I was texting him these things and over and over again. He was like again I don't think our ego should be in the way here Like we should let them to suck like he was I think you guys are testing about this stuff Well, this was after like multiple conversations, but yes We were texting because I was busy at work and he wanted to talk about it. Were they conversations or fights? This was a conversation. But, you know, the tone was like he was sending me paragraphs and I was busy. So I think my answers were a little bit short, but it like, I can read them to you.

It's literally my responses are, then you should go for it. Like I will not stand in your way here. So he's sending paragraphs and your responses that you should go for it. Kinda. I mean, not like he wasn't sending like scrolls, but he would send like a few sentences. I'm not trying to take sides. I'm just, I just, this was clearly you guys fought. I mean, this was, you fought over this. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was a heated convo. And then- I don't even know what that says about your guys' relationship, but it certainly says something. Yeah, it's just like such a unique dynamic for two people in a relationship to

have to navigate. Is that and then that neither of us really did that escalate your urgency around understanding his willingness to convert at that point? No. So what happened was after work, I called him, we talked about it some more. He kept trying to justify why he wants to go for it. And at this point, and we were on the phone. I was driving home and I was like, we're beating a dead horse. I don't know what else to say. You know, my stance, I think you should go for it. I think you want to go for it.

And if that is the case, you should go for it. Knowing that it hurts my feelings. Let's see that last part. That just kills me. Because like at first I'm like, oh, actually that it hurts my feelings. Let's see that last part that just kills me. Let me say, because like at first I'm like, oh, that actually sounded pretty nice. And like, what's his problem? But again, you're not saying he should go for it.

And that's, and if I'm giving you direct and tough, if I give you some tough love feedback here, if your goal was to effectively communicate with your boyfriend, you know, you're saying one thing and doing another. You're saying go for it, but it's going to hurt your feelings. I understand that's your truth. Just try to be transparent.

Sure, but I think there's just probably a more productive way for both of you, and I'm not putting this all on you. At some point, you guys need to sit down in these many conversations and just say, listen, we both care about our jobs, and that awesome. You know, I don't, we're only dating now, we talk about getting married, but like, if we're going to be together, then at the end of the day, this is a good thing for both of us, regardless of what, assuming one of us get it. And if not, like, I guess we'll have bigger problems when it comes to you and I down the road when I realize, I guess we're not, you know,

but like we both want this job. So let's both support each other and may the best person win. And whether you guys can decide whether you're gonna study together, help each other, and literally go into the interviews back to back, like in the office when, you know, Jim and Pam went for the same job.

Or Jim and Karen or, it was Karen. Karen. And truly just be like, yeah, good fucking luck. I definitely don't wish you get it because I want it, but good luck and I'm proud of you and you worked really hard on this and you fucking deserve this and you both say that to each other

and just let it play out. I guess I just don't see it that way. See it what way? But I hear you, my perspective was more like, we're not married, we're just dating. I don't know if this is going to work out. You told me last week that you were feeling iffy about converting, so I need to be selfish here. And again- And you being selfish was getting your boyfriend to pass on a job opportunity because they called you first?

But I didn't tell him to pass. I told him that he can make his own decision about it. And that's, that's you, like, listen, you just, I, I, you don't, you can disagree with me, but I'm telling you from a communicating standpoint, you essentially did tell him that. And you kept telling that. And the reason this man is sending you paragraphs of texts after long conversations, he wanted your permission.

He wanted to guilt free move forward with this, like to go after this job because he didn't want to like feel like he was stealing something from his girlfriend and he really wanted your permission and you never gave it to him because it always ended in a, but yeah. And listen, there's no wrong, but you need to, like what you're doing, like what you're having a hard time is you still think you're more justified than him. And I don't think either of you are more justified than the other. Yeah.

Like I, I don't really know what they're right. I mean, like this comes to, you got called first. I did like a month before him. Then you act like that matters. I think it does matter. Maybe this is just me. Like I'm, yeah, I feel like it does matter. From a professional standpoint, from a partner standpoint. But here you gotta understand the contradiction is, but the contradiction is I get it. You're just like, listen, I don't know if you're gonna convert and therefore I don't know I'm gonna marry you,

so I want this fucking job. But he's also like, well I don't know if I'm gonna convert and I don't know if I'm gonna marry you, so I want this fucking job. And you know what I'm saying, you're asking him to do the same thing that you're, and that's all human, but you guys are both wanting the other person to give up on this thing that you're, and that's all human, but you guys are both wanting the other person to give up on this thing that they want,

and that's bullshit by both of you. And so the least you guys could do is just shake each other's hands, respect each other as lovers, as professionals, as people who believe in each other, and just like, you know what, may the best man win, because it's like someone is gonna win, and you should, you know what? May the best man win because it's like, it's like someone is gonna win and you should. You should, I don't care if it's your boyfriend,

your colleague, you should be able to compete, lose and be happy for the person that beat you. And if you can't, that's definitely something you should work on. Yeah. Yeah, I keep kind of just thinking like, and you're probably going to be like, that's so dumb. But had they reached out to us on this at the same time, and there wasn't that element of my man calling me a shoe in for the job and typing me up. Like, I think that was just a hard pill for me to swallow. It was like, how can you call me a shoe

and say I'm the perfect candidate and turn around and say, actually, I also think that I am the perfect candidate. Like, had they reached out to us in the same week, same day, whatever, my opinion would be 1,000% different. I mean, I believe that, but I don't- And I know you probably think that's stupid, but-

I think what it is is, I think you need to at least acknowledge that it's personal. And when we're personal, you're biased, you just want this. And that's totally fine. But like, it doesn't make you right. And you think you're right. I mean, I do think I'm right. I also did communicate. I was like, I can't tell you why I'm like, I acknowledge the fact that it is unfair maybe that I feel this way, but it's just how I feel. Yeah, but you're discounting what he needed

from his partner in that moment, and you were just thinking of yourself, and that's fine. But like you're trying to pretend to be his partner while only thinking of yourself. Perhaps a little. From an unbiased part of you, that's kind of how I see it. But again, this is not like you have every right

to feel how you feel and do what you want. And the fact that he's at this point, not willing to convert, like maybe that's your answer. And maybe there's some, maybe you have a little bit of what imposter syndrome going. Cause you think if I have to compete with him, he's gonna win. That was also part of it.

He's very charming and speaks very well. So, you know, you, but like, you know. I know, I know, I know, there was a part of me. But that part of you that can acknowledge it is a part of you that needs to like, that's an ego thing. That is it. For sure.

You know, and so you just, again, I'm just, I want you to make decisions, being the most honest with yourself about why you're making these decisions. Cause I don't care. And they're all, everything you're describing is very normal and it makes a lot of sense. But I think what I'm trying to point out to you

is there's a bit of contradiction coming from what you're saying. And I don't think you're willing to really see that because I think you want to get this job and you want him to be totally happy about it. And you want him to, let me ask you this. Let's say you compete and get this job, then what? Like if you knew that you were gonna get this job.

That is what ended up happening and I got it. But, well that should tell you something too, you know? Like a lot of your actions are assuming an outcome that A, even hasn't happened yet. And if it doesn't happen the way, then you kind of all this for nothing from both ends of you guys. I'm curious, did he ever ask? Cause like,

it was a lot of him asking your permission, but you never really ask. You just, the, you getting called a month before, we all feel entitled to various things, but it's giving you a sense of entitlement to this position that you don't think he is entitled to. And when we are, when we feel entitled to things, then we just lose objectivity. Perhaps. I remember after my interview, my first interview in person,

I called him after and I was like, I was also sort of flip-flopping. Like it wasn't hard, fast. Like it wasn't only like, I don't feel like you should go for it or I feel weird about you going for it. Like I remember I called him right after the interview and I said, look, I actually feel like you could be really great for this role. Like, like after talking to the team, I actually called him and I was like,

I don't want to stand in your way. Like I, after talking to them, I actually think that you want to continue. I think like it was, it's obviously a very complex situation. I was going back and forth about it just like he was. So I think just after talking to them and knowing what, where he excels and where I excel, like there were a lot of instances in that interview where I was like,

he would actually be able to do this really well. That's why I'm sorry. Why, why can't you acknowledging it's a complex situation knowing that like we could sit there and go back and forth and like you and your ex did, kind of just break it down and analyze it and go back and forth and yada yada. Why can't you just acknowledge this is a complex situation

and there's a million different ways to look at it and no one really is right or wrong. So therefore, let the mess man win because like that's at least the only fair way. You know what? I guess my version of doing that was very calmly and honestly communicating to him how it made me feel. Like that's- You wanted your feelings to help you get your way. I was like, this is very complex. I don't know how to navigate this.

So you want to understand. I don't know what the right answer is. What I know about this situation is that- Is that you want the job. It would hurt me and I feel weird about it, but ultimately you can go for it if you would like to. No, I know what you said. Like that's, I know, but that's sort of,

that was my version of what you're saying to address that it's a complex situation. To your version of this is a complex situation, so why can't I get my way? That's what you're saying. I don't see it that way. That doesn't make it not true. Fair, like that's probably how he took it, yes, but.

Well, how do you, I mean, listen, listen you're just like he cares about your feelings you are emphasizing your feelings and you're saying all these Logical reasonable things and then what's the point of giving someone flowers if you're gonna piss all over the flowers? You know, yeah, what's the point of saying all these, like, listen, you're right for this job and if you want it, I support you and it's totally fine, but it's gonna destroy me as a human being. And I'm gonna feel like- Okay, I didn't say it's gonna destroy me

as a human being. That's probably how he heard it. I said, okay, well that's not my fault. No, but like- I communicated very clearly that it would make me- Listen, if you're- It would hurt my feelings. I'm sorry, any person who says, this is how you made me feel, wants that other person to acknowledge every bit

of those feelings that you're feeling. So yeah, you do want it to kind of destroy him, you know what I'm saying? You want him to recognize your feelings. And you kept invoking your feelings. And you're like, I feel this way, it's gonna make me feel this way, it's gonna, you're gonna be the person

who's gonna make me feel this way. And I, you know, and he was, and so it's just like, it didn't really matter. I suppose just, yeah, I guess my, to me, I was doing the right thing by communicating that. But I, now I understand what you're saying. But yeah, I guess at the time I was like, I am a communicative girlfriend, I'm going to tell him how that would make me feel. Like that's, that was my, it wasn't trying, it wasn't malicious.

It was literally me being like, I talk about communication, it's important for me to tell my partner how I feel and I'm going to tell him how I feel. I also like, as I said, it's important for me to tell my partner how I feel. And I'm going to tell him how I feel. I also like, as I said, it was back and forth for a few days. Like at the beginning, he was like, you know, I'm not going to go for it. I want to hit two years at my job. It, I don't think it's the right time for me. Did he ever ask you not to go for it for his feelings? No, but that was never in question because I had already started

interviewing before he did. Did he ask you to buy? I don't know. Listen, like people come up with crazy shit. Like it's not that crazy that he couldn't have come in there even a month later and said, I'm just better for like, listen, I got more experience. I'm just like,

you never asked me to do that. Cause I was already in the process. Like he wouldn't ask me to. But the point I'm just trying to make is like, sometimes the answer is to try to take, remove your feelings. You can't ask him to remove his feelings and expect him to acknowledge yours. Yeah, that's fair. And you didn't even really ask him or give a shit about how he felt about the fact that you were

gonna compete with him at this job. You just felt entitled because you got called first. And from a relationship standpoint, you definitely, I feel his frustration. Yeah. Because from a relationship standpoint, it's very hard to try to get on the same page with someone who feels entitled to something

that they feel like you're not to. Because immediately they just have the upper hand. So like no matter what, kind of like you did, there's a but that says, but I'm entitled to it. And that's how I felt. Like I can't help but feel that way. Like when I was already, I can't. Like I was already interviewing, I was invested.

I guess I would agree that you can't help but you feel that way, but emotional maturity is being able to process how you feel about something. When we were sick, when you were 16, you reacted to things differently than you react now. And the difference is you've grown up and gone, I don't know, maybe therapy or not therapy or just like you understood yourself a little bit,

learned from past mistakes. We definitely can't help how we feel. We can't help how we deal with those feelings. You are leading and justifying your actions by just invoking your feelings whenever it serves you the best. You can control that. Yeah.

Yeah. That you can help. And every time I say something to you that says, well, you know, blah, blah, blah. And again, unbiased opinion, you called me. You're like, well, I don't feel that way. Is your response to me? Okay, you don't have, great.

Like. No, like, conversation's over. So, you know, and in a relationship, you're both gonna come in with different feelings. And I could just know that, you're both gonna come in with different feelings. And I just know that the more entitled to your feelings than you are, that then you're already at a... the relationship, the connectingness between the two of you is already... it's tough. It's tough when one person feels more entitled to their feelings than the other, regardless of they got called first or not.

Yeah, I don't think I felt more entitled to my feelings. I just felt more entitled to their job. But you're, I think you should listen to this episode back when it comes out. Oh no, anyhow. But you know, it's just, listen, back to converting. How did this whole?

Yes. So this was all happening at the same time. Essentially, yeah, after work, one day we were on the phone. He called me to talk about the job more. I said, it sounds like you're going to go for it. I have really nothing else to say about it. You know my stance. Go for it. Let have really nothing else to say about it. You know my stance.

Go for it. Let's change the subject now. And then he told me on that phone call, he was like, also, I called my dad today, we had a really nice good chat about me converting. And like, he really came around. And I told my dad that like, I would rather do this and be with you than wonder what if for the rest of my life. And I was like, that's great. Like, I'm glad that chat went really well. I don't, I can't quite remember. It was like two months ago now. I can't quite remember how the conversation spiraled, but he started to bring up all of these different things that I had done in the past that he feels taken advantage of.

He said, how am I supposed to convert if you won't let me go for this job? How am I supposed to think that you will ever be able to make a sacrifice for me? And I'm like, these are all fair points. But some of the examples that he gave me were just like so out of left field. I'm sure they were, but you know, I think you have to, right?

He bottled stuff up. Definitely. And that was kind of an ongoing issue. When was the last time you spoke to this guy? When was the last time you spoke to him? That day. Two months ago? Other than me texting him, I returned his stuff like a couple of weeks ago.

Essentially, I'll give you a very fast how the relationship ended after that. Like he basically had all these realizations and during this fight about the relationship. Then we had a conversation where I basically begged him not to end it with me. And I was like, I will change. I will change. I will like do anything. Yes. I was like, go for the job, please. Like this is when I was like, fight or flight. I was like, I have to do everything to save this. He was totally shut down. And then I had to go to work. He said, can you come over later? Like I want to get some things off my chest. I don't want to make a rash decision about the relationship. I love you. And I just feel like there are things that I've been holding onto that I need to

talk to you about. And I was like, sounds good. I went over that night and he had my stuff in a pile and he was like, I don't want to convert. And that was basically it. It was very, it was very like, I don't usually feel this way, but I'm sad for this story because most of the time. It is very sad. Most of the time I'm, and this could easily be the case for you guys. I'm definitely like, listen, if you guys broke up, there's probably a reason and as tough as it is

that maybe this isn't your God. And that's, the religion part is a big issue and it's a lot to ask. And that side, and I say this with love, you're very stubborn. And just whether it was, like I can see a world where like the converting and this job, like you just, it was very easy for you to ask

some pretty big asks from him. And I'm just wondering if you fully grasp that. And if I'm hearing- 100%, I do. Okay. But like, I'm just- I can- I don't know if you do. I honestly don't know if you do because the way you kind of debated me so much about this job thing and the fact that you still were like, but I'm right, and I got called first, the fact that you still can't really see that, you have a blind spot, I feel like, when it comes to that.

And I think it's one thing to just proclaim, I get it, I'm asking him a lot, and really, in the heat of the moment, when you guys are at a point of disconnecting your relationship, acknowledge yourself, hey, maybe I need to take one for the team here because I've really asked a lot of the team. And I'm wondering if maybe you're not as good at that as you think you might be.

And I can't help but wonder if some of his frustrations and things that bottle up and when he was kind of throwing out things, you're like, what? Came from a place of like, really feel like you were just really good at asking a lot of things from him. And maybe he didn't have much to ask of you,

but it just seemed really easy for you to ask a lot from him where this guy was just like, she's just like, it's never fucking enough. And she's asking me to convert and never fucking enough. And what else? And she's asking me to convert and I gotta do this and I gotta do that. And it's just like, Jesus, I love her, but fuck. And I'm just wondering if maybe you,

like just some blind spots you could work on a little bit because it sounds like there's a lot of love here and it sounds like this is a very, like you said, it is very nuanced. The job conversation is very nuanced, converting is a very, like you said, it is very nuanced. The job conversation's very nuanced, converting's very nuanced, but I don't think you are as good as having nuanced conversations,

especially ones that are very personal to you, and that you have a lot of emotionally invested in the outcome, like most of us. It's hard to be nuanced when you give a shit about the outcome. And I think, yeah. Yeah, you're probably right. You know, heat of the moment, it's hard to like take a step back,

especially when this fight was just like, I wanted it to be a conversation and it became like a very heated fight. So it's hard to take a step back and like objectively see it from a bird's eye view. And I also didn't expect it to be the end of the relationship. So I was-

I hear you. But it's just like bad timing, maybe good timing. I don't know because like, listen, if you know, like bad timing worked out, but like maybe hopefully this is a pivot, like I hope this one way or the other, you learn something from it. I don't know what you should, you know, there's something to learn here, you know.

No, and I, and I acknowledged to him like, and. I'm really curious if you ever listened to this episode and knew it was about him, what he would think. If he listened to it. Yeah. And he knew, you know, I know we give a fake name and things like that. I mean, he would definitely know. It's a very, very niche story.

I imagine, but like if he did, I wonder how he would feel about what was being discussed. Yeah, I did acknowledge to him too, like sort of as things were falling apart, I was like, I really am now able to sort of see your perspective and I feel like there have been times that I have taken advantage of you in the sense I am now able to sort of see your perspective. And I feel like there have been times that I have taken advantage of you

in the sense that he did a lot for me. Like I asked a lot and he was a wonderful boyfriend. It's like, and again, back to when we're talking, converting, right? Like talking to you, it's like, you can say, I'm not even religious. I don't really need a lot from my boyfriend to convert, but I do have these like, just a handful

of like just things I want. Why? I don't know, I just fucking do because I feel this way. And you feel very justified to say that and very entitled to say that even though you can acknowledge that they, you know what I'm saying?

When I'm like, well, why can't you go drive, you know, it's just like, you just don't want to and you want him to just meet those, well, why can't you go drive? You know, it's just like, you just don't want to. And you want him to just meet those, well, I just do demands. And I think, you know, you win a lot of the, I just want to get my way arguments. And he concedes probably most of those. And I think he got tired of conceding.

And even the ones that felt trivial became a big deal because like I give in to fucking everything. Yeah, I think you're right about that. I think this fight kind of opened up that can of worms. And I think what was I will do this for her because I love her became, oh my God, how am I doing all of this? And she can't let me do this. Yeah. You're right about that. Time to change.

I guess just with the yeah, the conversion thing, it's not something I'm willing to budge on, so. Yeah, I'd hear you on the converting, but as long as they're converting, why don't you make it as easy? My point is, I think that's awesome and that's important to you. But as someone who's not religious,

why can't you make it as easy as possible for whoever that person is, if you decide to love a man who's not religious, why can't you make it as easy as possible for whoever that person is, if you decide to love a man who's not Jewish and you wanna marry this man and you have a great thing going, but you still wanna have, like why can't you make it as easy as possible for him? And then from that point forward,

allow your relationship with this person and your connection with this person be what motivates them to continue to want to like become more connected to you and your family. And if you are connected to your faith and your community that will inspire them to do so rather than put out a set of like benchmarks that like you just decided are important to you even though like you don't even really give a shit in your day-to-day life.

I don't necessarily think that was the case. I did wanna make it as easy as possible. And I was even, yeah, there were, we talked about a lot of things that I was willing to do if and when he did convert. He didn't really ask very many questions about what the process would be like. So I didn't wanna push that onto him. I didn't wanna to, I wanted him to also like, ask me about it and be curious. It's a really

uncomfortable thing to bring up to a partner. I get that. Probably pretty closed off to it, right? I guess it's one of those things where like, if you guys, let's say you, you know, this didn't happen, you got married and you fell in love and like, listen, people get divorced. It's a good chance he'd just be like, yeah, I married a woman and she was Jewish. I converted for her and we've divorced and I'm not Jewish anymore. You know, like I'm sure that story exists out there.

Yeah. You know, he's doing it for you. You know, he doesn't want to. That conversation also did happen. I was like, that conversation also did happen. And at one point kind of as a joke, I was like, well, if you don't like it, like there is divorce down the line.

It's a possibility. He was like, I don't want to get divorced. The gap that you, it's just, there's this consistency you're not seeing. And I wonder if you'll hear it when you listen to this back. You hold on to very certain, very specific things. It's just like, well, I wanted to make it easy as

possible. Oh yeah, it was the one, him wanting to do it. You know, it's like, you know, I want you to want to do the dishes. It wasn't really, no, it wasn't him wanting to do it. It was just, you know, it's, it's such a sensitive conversation that I- But I guess what I'm saying, it's such a big, you recognize it's a big ask, right? You recognize it's a huge- 100%, 1000%. I'm saying it's such a big, you recognize it's a big ask, right? You recognize it's a huge. 100%, 1000%. Why don't we just start with, he's willing, you know? And if that, it's just like, let's just-

Yeah, I was really happy about that. Right, and then, and just let him just, I guess like, again, what I mean, as easy as possible, but his motivations and his interests, like you clearly there's, you know, you had some standards standards in your mind you had some ideas of what you wanted you had some things that you thought he should do or not do. And then you are to convert a yeah just like you just saying why you never really asked and you know like and that's against human you can say. I understand how big of an ask it is, but I want a little bit more. I want to, you know, and it's supposed to be like, Hey, it's a huge fucking ass. Well, I'm gonna,

it is a big ask. And just like, why can't you just like, I don't know, baby step it with this guy, you know? Um, that wasn't really his style to be like, yeah, that was kind of how our big conversations were like that. It was very, because I think he wasn't the best at like having very emotional conversations. It took a lot out of him. So when we did kind of have to sit and talk about something serious, it was like, we are scheduling this time to have this chat about this thing. It wasn't, it wasn't a super like casual thing that was just brought up.

He told me he was like, we should talk about this. Let's do it on this day. Like, and that was the time that we were gonna address it. Have you let this guy go? It's been really hard. Like, it's been pretty hard for me, but I would say in the last like few weeks. And I have been doing-

Do you wanna fight for this or are you ready to let it go and just accept that he's not your guy? Again, like I would, the only way I would be willing to get back together is if he would convert. I hear that, but I'm just like- And I don't think that's on the table. So I'm not kind of like- I mean, I'm only basing on everything you've told me.

It was on the table. It was on the table. It was. And I think there were things. When he ended it, he said, I've actually had a gut feeling this whole time that I didn't want to. That might be true.

I don't know, it might be true. Anyway, he wants to meet for closure in two weeks. Why? Great question. He asked me for closure. And that's, that is the real reason I called. So what do you want? What do you want? Because if it's closure, I don't think you should go if you're not fully done with this guy. And I guess again, this is a very, very sensitive, obviously very nuanced conversation. I guess what I'm trying to articulate, and I'm having

a hard time getting through to you is I recognize you're non-negotiable, it's an important non-negotiable. I'm glad that you are taking this non-negotiable serious now rather than just hoping for the best later. But based on what I think you and I have discovered about your relationship with this man and how maybe some of your blind spots

have caused him to feel a certain way, coupled with the fact of what you are asking him to do. I really think there's some like, or you could just, you know, you could just fucking just find a great Jewish man. But I really think you have this blind, like I don't care if he's Jewish or not, if you are really good at making your feelings

more entitled than your partner's and really getting good at asking him to concede at a lot of like 50-50 conversations, your partner is gonna end up presenting you, period. And if you don't work on that blind spot, it's gonna be a problem for you in your next relationship and in this one. And if the reason why your boyfriend got to a place that was ultimately, I'm not going to convert

for this woman, I don't think it's because of his willingness to convert. I think it's because he was like, she just, I don't, it's not 50-50. A hundred percent. That's basically what he said. And I said, you're right. Well, that's, that's your call. But like this, this is men or it doesn't matter if he's Jewish or not men or men and, and they want, and they want to be, have partners too. And I think, and he sounds like a guy who's willing to do a lot for his partner. And there's a lot of guys out there who are not, but just because the guys are willing to do a lot for their partner, doesn, and there's a lot of guys out there who are not, but just because

the guys are willing to do a lot for their partner, doesn't mean they, they need something back to. I think I hear you and I definitely think it's something that I now have learned about myself. Um, I think it also kind of just happened this way because he, he had a hard time communicating. So it's hard to be there for somebody. I'm confident he is far from perfect and he has his plenty of blind spots. It's just how the dynamic sort of, I guess, evolved with this guy who wasn't great at communicating and did a lot for me.

So naturally, that's sort of just how the dynamic of the relationship evolved over time. Did you guys ever do couples therapy? We did not. Um, we, we talked about it. Like he would definitely be open to it. Really? I mean, what you are describing as a, as a pretty good thing with two people, two people who aren't great communicators.

Perhaps. That's what I'm hearing. Yeah. But he definitely might not be your man. So my, my short answer to a very long conversation is if you want closure, don't go. If you aren't ready to say goodbye, go. Okay. All right.

Because you don't need closure, you know. I know. I don't really believe in closure. Closure is you accepting that it's over and that's his journey too. But I wouldn't, don't be, this is not the time to be right or stubborn. Definitely not. No, if I do go, it's not to like hammer down this point at all. Oh God, please no.

I hope you don't, yes. I promise you, I will. It's more just to, it's more of a curiosity for me. Like I just want to know what he has to say. Well, what are you curious about? For one, I just like miss him a lot. We were friends for a year before we started dating. I miss him. Because that's this torture.

I know. I just I what am I curious about? I think it would be good just to hear about, you know, is how he justified kind of absorbed everything. Yeah, justifies. And that's what he did. Not necessarily an apology. Yeah, justifies what he did, not necessarily an apology. Yeah, I know. That's why I'm like, maybe I shouldn't go, but slightly toxic side of me is like, well, I would like to see him, you know?

I'm definitely not going in with my armor up. I'm going in with my white flag waving. Well, I wish you the best. Thanks for having this conversation with me. Yeah, thank you. I'm excited to listen to it back. Maybe I'll learn something. Just be aware of those blind spots.

Yeah, sorry it was so long. It is hard to find good people out there and we can always improve our miscommunication and we can always seek help when we're miscommunicating with our partners. And there are a lot of tough conversations that even the closest people have to have and have a difficult time getting through.

And you guys try to have two extraordinarily difficult conversations at the same time. And there are other like smaller issues in your relationship. I don't know, it's just like, it's honestly a sad story. It is a really sad story. But you know, it's not, story. But it's not over. It doesn't have to. I mean, it's up to you.

It's up to you. I mean, it's not really up to me. I could go in and be like, please, and he'll be like, no. Well, you're right. I would disagree. You're right. I mean, you have to be willing to be wrong

and feel like a fool and not get your way and be truly vulnerable. Like yeah, you would have to be all those things. I don't know if you're capable, but yeah, you would have to go in with truly a white flag, humbled and just focused on what you have reflected about the role you played in this relationship and anything at all that you would might want to work on or change or improve and that's something that you want him to know because as someone you've been in a long relationship and have still have a past or not if there's nothing that you could bring to that conversation about things that you would have done differently that you that you think it's important for him to know about, then yeah, it's probably

a waste of your time to go. Okay. All right. Good luck. I would love an update one way or the other, if you're willing. That'd be fascinating to learn. Yeah, I will. Sounds good. Take care. Tough love. Nice to meet you. Yeah, you too. Fascinating conversation. Good story. I'm glad you enjoyed it. See ya.