The Viall Files - E925 – Going Deeper with JoJo Siwa

Episode Date: April 30, 2025

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper edition.  Big Brother is waiting… for the return of JOJO SIWA TO THE VIALL FILES! So many questions have been raised since JoJo’s exit from Celebrity Big Brother UK. Where does JoJo stand with Mickey Rourke? Does she know who he is? Does he know who she is? What’s going on with Kath? With Chris? So many questions, all answered. Just a reminder, Karma’s a… you fill in the rest.   “You don't get to ask me for a business class flight home and then do that." Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod   Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w   Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  Are you struggling with any sort of dating, relationship, or life dilemma? Do you want all the answers? Email [e-mail] with your question in the subject line to express interest in appearing on the show!  To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   Thank You to Our Sponsors: Function - For your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from Quince. Go to https://quince.com/viall for 365 day returns, plus free shipping on your order. Quip - Streamline and scale your customer communications with OpenPhone. Get 20% off your first 6 months at www.openphone.com/viall Helix Sleep - Go to https://thrivemarket.com/viall for thirty percent off your first order, plus a FREE $60 gift! Timestamps: (00:00) - Intro (03:15) - Welcome JoJo (04:57) - Joining Big Brother (11:14) - Mickey Situation (25:35) - Chris (35:58) - Realization and Breakup (53:41) - Sexual Identity (58:07) - Music, The New JoJo, Kid Names (01:04:46) - 48 Hours Later (01:09:55) - Touring (01:11:59) - Burning Fan Questions (01:15:44) - Outro Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @itsjojosiwa @ciaracrobinson @justinkaphillips  @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell  

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Hi, welcome. Welcome back. Hi. Hi, Nick. Hi, Natalie. How are we? We're so great. We're so like just excited to see you. I'm so excited too. Obviously just like as our friend to like get back into the States and like I feel like we would get together anyways, but then here we are after you decided to blow up your brother and make it a worldwide international event.

Really made a stamp over there. I was telling you about the but then here we are after you decided to blow up your brother and make it a worldwide international event. Really made a stamp over there. Really made a stamp. I was telling you before we started, I don't know why I was shocked because you did something about you. The spotlight finds you and it's like the internet finds you.

I've certainly, you know. They don't hold back on me. We know of Big Brother, Big Brother UK, Slavery UK, we know it well, but like I've never seen people talk about it the way they've been talking about it this season. And it's all centered around you. Thank you. That means a lot.

That's actually what like the producers in production was saying about the show. They were like, we've never seen an impact like this one. Like I think it was just like the perfect concoction of things, you know what I mean? And I think really, like, I know you guys have gotten to see the side of me that's like, you know what? Normal?

Yeah, that's, and so I think you've gotten to see that normal side and I think I've really, like, not intentionally hid that side of me, but almost didn't know how to be public with that side of my life. You know what I mean? Like, I always felt like I had to be super, you know, Georgia Suified and I love being super Georgia Siwa-fied.

That is a very real side to me. But I also do live normal, believe it or not. I don't have a crazy ninja turtle makeup on my face with that bar eye mask every single day. And so I think it was a really great way to kind of share that for the first time because it was out of my control and people just got to see it candidly.

So it was cool to be in the UK and have people love it so much. It was, getting out was a trip. Were people like shocked to even see you on the show? I remember you had been talking to me maybe for a year ago. For a bit, yeah. Like a long time. It was in October that I got like the initial meeting.

Yeah, and I was surprised to hear you talking about it, but like you were dead set on doing it from the beginning. It wasn't like, it's something you wanted to do. You were very invested, very excited about it. What made you so interested in doing this in the first place? I don't know, I think I just love, this sounds good, but I just love doing things.

And I think because I grew up on reality TV, that kind of feels like a home, you know what I mean? And I love a challenge, I love a game. I always say to like, I love the people that I meet. And I always kind of know whenever I do a show like this, you know, you come out with somebody who was destined to be in your life. And so I'm always curious of like,

who that will end up being. Like with Forces, it was obviously you and Tyler. With Dancing with the Stars, it was my best friend Ezra and Jenna, my bro. Like there's, that's always a fun thing to kind of like, for me to look forward to. But I think I just love doing something that's different. And I think it'd be crazy to say no

to something like Big Brother. It's just like, it's cool. You know what I mean? Like, I'm a fan of it. And so I'm like, why would I not? What did you enjoy more? What was harder, Special Forces or Big Brother? It's, they're so different.

They're so different because Forces is grueling, right? It's tiring, it's exhausting. You don't know what you're doing. On Big Brother, you also don't know what you're doing, but Forces is very like stressful, right? Like you're out of everything you know, which is similar. You're eating different, which is similar. But with Forces, it's very like, oh, I could lose my life today.

And like, you really think about that. You know what I mean? You know, like, oh, I'm genuinely being a bit tortured right now. And like, you really think about that. Whereas Big Brother, it's like, the torture man is wearing a cat costume for 12 hours and it's like silly. You know what I mean? But like, the same way that it's very real.

But instead of hearing, number three, battery change, you're hearing, housemates, new batteries are in the hatch. Please replace, you know what I mean? So it's like, they're very similar. I think personally for myself, because I'm in this week, I would say Big Brother, I like doing more. I think I, as much as I learned about myself on Forces, I think I learned way more about myself, my life,

changes I wanted to make in my life on Big Brother, I think because it was just longer. And instead of having your brain be like, oh my God, I'm gonna die. Oh my God, do I wanna be here? My brain was thinking like so many deep thoughts about my life. And so it was, I don't know,

it was just kind of an interesting feeling, but give me a year when both are far out of distance and I wouldn't know what my answer would be. No, it makes a lot of sense hearing, I mean, I haven't done Big Brother, but I have done Forces with you. And like you said, I mean, like there's a literal survival element to Forces

that like the literal premise of the show is to like deplete everything, resources, food, strip you down and see what you can run on with like limited capacity. Where again, I haven't done Big Brother, but it does seem like the structure is really a lot more like. It's brighter.

It's brighter, isolated, but like, and so this time to reflect, you know, and just time to just sit, like there was no time to sit around and reflect with forces. It was like literal survival. So very different in terms of I didn't like reflect on my life.

And Forces is meant to break you, whereas Big Brother's meant to like, you're meant to have fun. Like the whole thing, the whole welfare team is like, you're gonna have the best time, enjoy it. It's 20 days. It's also much longer than Forces was, but yeah, it's exactly that.

Did you go in like with any expectations or like an idea of what you wanted to get out of it or was it just like you said, like sounded fun, I wanna do something, let's fucking do it? I don't know, I think the expectation that I went in with was just like, yeah, it's gonna be 20 days, right? I think honestly the biggest thing that was different for me is I really thought

I was gonna miss home. Really thought I was gonna be feeling like, oh, I'm in a foreign country, I don't know anybody, I feel very lonely, I miss my family, I miss my dog, I miss my house. I was kind of thinking all of those things going in and I was really amping up, like, oh, I'm gonna miss this. But then I think it just immediately was so fun

and the people were so lovely right away. And then like, you know how normally like you meet people right away and then it kind of like wears off? Like with 90% of the people, it never wore off. You know what I mean? Like it was, everyone was genuine from the beginning. And so I think I got lucky being surrounded by a beautiful group of people in the house.

I definitely didn't think it was gonna be as like intense as it is because you like, you see us doing like the pirate task, right? And I don't know how much of it you watched or not, but we did this big pirate task where we had a pirate. I was a captain, yada, yada, yada. That starts at 9 a.m. and we finished the pirate task at 2 a.m. and you're like in costume you're like it's intense that was the longest one because that was the day that Mickey got evicted and so like they had to like have some meetings quick so we kind of got like back burnered in the house literally there was like three or four hours we were like so what are we doing like nothing's happened no movement from Big Brother

like everyone just like keep watch I guess like hopefully no enemy ships come because that's what we had to watch for but we were clearly just in like a holding period but we didn't know that but then yeah like the family task it's like 9 a.m. to 8 p.m. like everything is so you would think it'd be like okay put on your cat costume for two hours let's get a little and then like take it off no it's all day long and that's like they do the timestamps in the show but it like still like it doesn't it doesn't translate to genuinely how long it is. Yesterday I was watching an episode and they put in my dance challenge and I had to dance to power

up the house. And they put it in for two minutes and I was livid. I was like, there's absolutely no way. And my mom was like, what? And I was like, you think I was that exhausted after dancing for two minutes? And my mom was like, I mean, yeah, you were going for it. Did you feel like I felt when they showed me carrying Tom Sandiball? No, exactly that feeling, exactly that feeling. Because I was like, I was dancing for 20. It was like, okay, 20 is dramatic. I won't be dramatic, I'll say 17.

Like 17 minutes, like I'm not being dramatic when I say 17, I was being dramatic when I said 20. That's a lot, but I think 20 is fine. Thank you for being honest. Yeah, thank you for being honest. So down to earth right now. Let's talk, Mickey. Okay, let's talk. That was wild. Voldem fine. Thank you for being honest. Yeah, thank you for being honest. So down to earth right now. Yeah. Let's talk Mickey.

Okay, let's talk. That was wild. Voldemort. Are we calling him Voldemort? We call him Voldemort, we call him 50-50. 50-50? Yeah, he always used to do this thing. We'd be like, Mickey, did you sleep good?

50-50. Mickey, are you having fun? 50-50. Well, first of all, what is your knowledge and history of Mickey work? Absolutely nothing. I had no clue who he was. And he was the only person that walked in without a name tag.

So I didn't know him at all. And I had to say, what's your name? And he said Mickey. And I said, okay, cool. Nice to meet you. I had zero clue. Was anyone in the house kind of like, oh my God? Yes. Honestly, I think everybody else. I don't know about Ella. I don't know how much she knew about him. But everybody else knew who he was. about Ella. I don't know how much she knew about him,

but everybody else knew who he was, loved him. Honestly, initially. Like when you pulled him in for like the train, when he walked in. The conga line. Oh my God. The conga line or whatever. Dear Lord, that, now, okay, honest to God, now knowing Mickey and knowing the way he is and knowing what he's down for and what he's not down for,

I am flabbergasted that he got into that conga line. I'm flabbergasted. I'm flabbergasted he showed up. No, also that, we, I have a theory and it's just a theory. I think production told him, but I don't think he listened. And then I think he listened to this person in his life named Dima. And Dima is his quote unquote best friend,

but it sounds more so as Dima's, maybe an employee. Yeah, Dima's the name. Can we look up Dima? Yeah, probably, I'm sure. He's apparently always with him. So I'm sure he's very- Dima's a man. I believe so, yes. But yeah, he was very open about conversation with Dima,

so I wouldn't expect it to be a secret at all. Anyways- I was just wondering if he's like a publicist or a manager. I think, I mean, I said, how often do you get to see Dima? And Mickey said, I see him every Monday through Friday, nine to five. Okay. And so I'm pretty sure Dima is like an employee. He has collected from nine to five.

Honestly, I will say a piece of me, it kind of did feel for Mickey a little bit because he got out on Saturday. And so I knew he got out on Saturday and like, as he should, like, I don't feel bad for him getting evicted or kicked out because he needed to be but he got out on Saturday and I knew he went out to nobody and I knew he wasn't gonna have Dima until Monday and like a part of me did feel like sorry for him. I think he's a messed up man and there's no excuse. Did you take his comments? Well, how did you take his comments? Because it's like. What was the first thing that he said to you that kind of was like, uh? Okay, we'll go from the way beginning.

He was just bizarre. He was, that's a great way to put him. He's just bizarre. He's a character. He's like, what is he doing? Everybody picks their bed. He goes to the couch. Or Mickey, why are you doing on the couch?

Oh, I haven't slept in a bed in 52 years. I only sleep on couches. Oh, okay, cool. Shits everywhere. You know what I mean? Like, he's just, he's just- He put shit everywhere. He didn't shit everywhere.

I mean, to my knowledge, he may have shit everywhere and someone else cleaned it. But no, he put his shit everywhere. He put his shit on my bed. I had, I honestly worked for like an hour to work up the courage to be like, hey, can you take your stuff off my bed, please?

But I was like, I shouldn't feel bad about it. It was a mess. Anyways, he was just bizarre. And then he turned the next day is when things got a little like, when he went into the prize room, he said to me, he said, I got you the best prize of all, but you can't know it yet.

And so I was like, hmm, that was like our first like kind of interaction. What do you think his, sorry for interrupting, but what do you think his knowledge of you was? I think absolutely nothing. I think absolutely nothing, honest to God. I heard he got interviewed at the airport by TMZ and they said, what do you think of JoJo?

And he said, who? No, I know that, but that did not seem genuine. I saw that interview and it seemed like he was. Did you? Yeah. Oh no, I can guarantee if I saw him on the street and I said, Mickey, he'd go, oh, hi sweetheart, you want a picture?

Like he would not know who I am. I can guarantee that. And I would say genuinely same thing about everybody on the show. Like, he wouldn't, maybe daily, he might remember daily. But he- And is that because he's just like so in his own world? He's very in his own world, in his own head.

He walks on this line and it's Mickey's line and that's it, that's where it ends. Anyways, what was the original? He said he got you the best prize of all. Yes. And so that was kind of our first interaction. And then his prize was he got me into the prize room. And that was honestly, I was stoked about that. But truthfully, I think he only did that because the people he gave prizes to was me. He picked me and Christopher. But when he picked Christopher, I guess he said the Australian with pretty eyes. And they were like, there's not an Australian here.

And there's a few people with pretty eyes. And so he was like, you know, like the one with, and so then they named off Chris and they went, and then he was like, yeah, yeah, Chris. And then with me, I think he just was probably like the annoying girl, you know what I mean? Like that's, I haven't seen that part, so I don't know what he said.

But anyways, so that was our first interaction. And then the next day he brushes his teeth in the sink. I tried to help him be like, hey, there's a big bathroom, because he just didn't see the bathroom. And so I was very genuine about that. And he didn't want anything to do with it. I was like, oh, good. And then he wanted to know what the cigarette room was.

And he asked me. And so I took him out there. And it's an off-camera cigarette room. There's a microphone in there and you can't get out of the house through there. But you can go in there to have a smoke and then come right back out. It's a black box. It's four by four. It's nothing. Anyways, so then you come out of the cigarette room

and that's when he goes back over. And he's sitting and it's like me and Michael are sitting over on the benches and then it was Mickey, Christopher, Jack. I think Ella may have been there in the beginning or not. I don't really know, but I know it was Chris and Jack. And that's when he made his first smart remarks. And I believe the first ones that he said

was the lesbian over there. And like, you don't really wanna like, point somebody out as the lesbian until like, it just was genuinely giving him heads up. It does not offend me at all, but like- Just like feels aggressive in a way. But it just is like, other people are gonna just like, don't say that, you know what I mean?

Just like, just a heads up, don't say that. Like it's all good to me, no bad blood there, but like just a heads up don't say that like it's it's all good to me no bad blood there but like just a heads up anyways so then he said that and then he doubled downed on it who you gonna go vote for it the lesbian I was like Mickey like you really you cannot vote me because I'm a lesbian now you're being crazy and then he made a joke using the f-slur and that was when actually I was like whoa okay I don't want really much to do with this man right now. And then that's when Chris stepped in.

And it's interesting because Chris now, if he didn't step in, I'd be like, come on, you know, find it. But then we didn't know each other. Nobody knew each other. It was still, it was Dave essentially one in the house. Like it's nobody wants to do anything. Nobody wants to say anything.

No one wants to stand up to make you rock. And so for him to do that and stand up, not only for me in that moment, but for the entire LGBTQ community and say, hey, like you really can't say that. Like, and you're just, you're fighting for right versus wrong. And so I, Chris took that away. And then that's when Mickey made a sexually

inappropriate comment to me. And like- At any point did like, did it feel like Mickey was willing to listen or just like acknowledge that like he said something inappropriate, whether you know, maybe it's a lot of the comments was like, he's like an old ignorant man. Yes. But it did seem like after Chris talked to him, it was like, is he ignorant? Or is he just so it's doing things to egg people like, know? So there was, let me, let me get there.

Let me get there because it gets there and it gets there quickly. So long story short, then Mickey gets called into the diary room and told like, Hey, you can't say that. Right. And in that diary room, he came out and, and he said in the diary room, like, I didn't mean to offend, I'm sorry. Like all good. And really quick, the sexual remark was him being like, if you were with me, you wouldn't be a lesbian or something.

Yeah, and then he said, I'll tie you up or something. And then I was like, relax, I'll tie you up. Like, try me, I dare you to, you know what I mean? Like, you may be strong, but maybe I'm mighty. You know what I mean? And this is all coming from a guy you know nothing about, don't know what he represents, don't know his background, you've known for a day.

But I also have exactly kind of what you were just talking about and like the story does lead there, but just to reiterate like, or to I guess start the statement of like, I also understand he is just an older guy that grew up in Hollywood, he might just be a little bit of a weirdo and I might just have to tolerate it and all good, you know what I mean? And that's kind of the approach I took like, look,

this is weird, this is creepy, I don't like it, he's gross, but like, I'll figure it out. Like it'll be fine, I'm not, I'm gonna be okay. But what happened was, in the diary room, he actually said, and I saw this last night when I watched, he said, you know, I didn't have any ill intent, whatever. We don't hear about those diary room chats, so I have no idea of any of that.

So then he comes out into the kitchen and he comes up to me and I told him, I was like, I was gonna tell him because everybody encouraged me to like be like little, start to explain why he can't do that just to like make amends almost. So he knows why you're feeling it. An hour branch, yeah.

Yeah, and so I did. And he wanted nothing to do with it. He said, you're gonna kick a dog while it's down. And I was like, no, oh my God, no, like that's not the point at all. I just wanted you to know like where I was coming from. Then that's when Chris stepped in again, because I was very shaken up at that point.

And Chris was like, no, man, like, just like she's just trying to like say her feelings, whatever. And then Mickey was like, well, I don't really care about your feelings. And all this didn't make it. And so that's what really tipped me over the edge is he then said to me, I knew what I was saying and that's why I said it. I wanted

to offend you. I knew it was going to offend you and that's why I wanted to do it. I like poking at a bear and none of that made it. So that conversation and then he said to me something along the lines of like, I knew it would offend you so that's why I said it. So then I stood up at the chair and I was like, why would you want to say something that you think would offend me? Very chill, because I was sitting, he was standing. And he said to me, he said, oh, so now you're gonna stand up and attack me. And I sat right back down.

I was like, no, like not my point at all. I just wanted to have a conversation with you. And he said, I don't wanna have a conversation with you. And he walked away. And that's what shook me up. And then that's when I went outside, took a second. That's when Chris really comforted me. And so there was, look, they have to get

a lot into 42 minutes. And so I'm not upset that that didn't make it to air. I don't care. Like it was my experience and what happened. But that's when I really broke. I went into the diary room, I broke down, I talked to the big brother. I honestly, I told big brother, like, I don't really feel safe around him. Like, this is very scary. Now my bed was next to his. Chris did say to me, like, I'll swap you beds. So that so that way like there's a gap between you two. So we did that. I talked to my brother about that. Whatever. But then I realized something. I realized that I can make an example out of this situation. Whether it be a good example or a bad example, I can make an example. And so I was like, all right, here we go.

I'm gonna make it my mission to realize where he's coming from and make him realize where he's coming from and make him realize where he's coming from and make him realize. And so I wanted to honestly become friends with him. And I wanted to talk to him about his childhood. And I wanted to talk to him about why he's this way, why he isolates himself, where this all stems from. And we did have some good conversations.

He wanted to learn a lot more about the community. We had conversations about literally straight up words that are on limits and words that are off limits within different minorities. We had conversations about baseball, about cruise ships, about his childhood. We had so many conversations and I genuinely think he just has not had someone talk to him about anything normal in so long. And I think he was messed up as a child and I think that's coming out now.

And I think that came out in the fight with Christopher. And I think like he's not a good man. And I will stand behind that and he's gross and he's creepy and he doesn't know right from wrong. But he's also a hurt man. And I can have sympathy for him being a hurt man while also not condoning his behavior. And I think once we finally got there

and I realized that was situation, like, yeah, I will say I feel sorry for him, but I will also say he's not a good guy. And I'll just see you later. You know what I mean? Yeah. No, I mean, thank you for sharing that story. I'm always like, I, you know, when,

obviously, you know, I love you as a friend and your family, but you know, when people talk about you on the internet and you're out there and you're doing these shows and people have commentary, like I'm always quick to like, my first like defensive view is always like, she's 21. Like she's figuring out life. I love that.

But like sometimes like, and that's just such a broad high level statement, but like why I was drawn to you in the first place, why we are even able to be friends at the stages in life that we're in. Is that you have just an incredible maturity and you're grounded in ways that you would never expect Jojo Siwa to be grounded. And I just always like,

I've always appreciate the way you handle adversity in situations where there are a lot of people who never get to that stage of enlightenment, emotional enlightenment that you're at already in life, let alone as a 21 year old. I think of it as like gentle parenting, any sort of situation of conflict. I think about gentle parenting, the conflict and the person that it's with. So like, you know, like get to his eye level, have a calm conversation with him, don't yell at him for his behavior, but ask him why his behavior, you know what I mean?

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Welcome to Combat Story. I'm Ryan Fuget and I served war zone tours as an army attack helicopter pilot and CIA officer over a 15 year career. I'm fascinated by the experiences of the elite in combat. On this show, I interview some of the best to understand what combat felt like on their front lines. This is Combat Story.

They were pinned down from a Dishka and the Dishka was coming from a third story of a seven story apartment building. And then we blew that third story out within like maybe a minute and a half or two minutes of getting that nine line. Should we talk about Chris? I would love to talk about Chris.

All right. Where does he fall on the Tyler, me? I'm kidding. No, I literally, while I was there, I was like, I cannot say he is like my favorite person to come out of a show because I have two other boys that I love. So I'm pretty sure I'm third, but it's fine. Yeah. You know, I do love you so much, Nick, but I'm the friend that, you know,

no, I would, I'm, I'm, I'm the tough love friend. You know, probably. I'm the friend that, you know. No, I would. I'm the tough love friend. You know, honestly, I'll be straight up. I'll be straight up. You all three are very different to me. Just because you are the three straight men in my life, you are all three so different to me. Our dynamic is very different.

The conversations we have are very different. The conversations I have with you, the conversations I have with Ty, and the conversation that I have with Chris are honestly conversations that I wouldn't have, the conversations I have with Ty, and the conversation that I have with Chris are honestly conversations that I wouldn't have the conversations I have with Chris with you and you with Tyler and Tyler with you and Tyler with Chris. You know what I mean? Like I wouldn't, it's so very different. Did you know that Chris was, came from Love Island UK? I knew he was on Love Island UK because my brother's fiance was a big fan of the show and gave me a heads up on him.

And I, yeah, I knew of him. I never watched the series though. Someone in my life told me about his viral sound, sit down, I'm sat. I did use that against him once in the house, but I actually didn't, I didn't know it because he was, he said to me, like, he was like, take a seat. And I was like, I'm sat.

And I didn't, I did not, like I wasn't consciously doing it. But it was a really funny moment. Cause he was like, did you just use my line against me? And I was like, on accident, really on accident I did. But yeah, so I knew of him, but I didn't know anything beyond Chris. He was on Love Island. You know what I mean?

I didn't even know what he looked like to be fair. When he walked in and I saw the name tag Chris, I was like, oh, that's the one from Love Island. You know what I mean? I didn't even know what he looked like, to be fair. When he walked in and I saw the name tag Chris, I was like, oh, that's the one from Love Island. You know what I mean? Was it the confrontation with Mickey and him standing up for you that first drew you to him as someone that like, hey, this is a person being a friend in this moment to me,

and then you kind of leaned in? It's interesting. I feel like everything in your life happens for a reason. And Mickey doing that definitely kickstarted, you know, Chris and I's friendship. And I don't know, I think, you know, by luck, Chris was there. I don't know what it would have looked like

if anybody else was there in that moment, what anybody else would have said, but it worked out exactly the way it was supposed to. And then I think that moment outside, what I really needed was a hug, you know what I mean? And I, but it's day one, you can't ask for a hug from anybody. You know, also like in my head, I'm like, it's day one, don't cry. Well, you know what I mean? And I, but it's day one, you can't ask for a hug from anybody. You know, also like, in my head, I'm like,

it's day one, don't cry. Well, well, you know what I mean? And so Chris could see that on my face and he could see that I wasn't okay. And we didn't know each other and it was just, it was a moment and it felt very safe and very comforting. And then yeah, when he, when he swapped me beds, that meant a lot as well,

cause I was like, this feels nice, you know what I mean? Like, it felt very protective and like, I actually put trust into him being like, yeah, actually, he would, you know, pop them if he got up, you know? And I felt that. And then, yeah, just day by day. I mean, you're it's such an accelerated environment, right? Like you are spending 24 hours together every single day. There's no other people.

There's no outside contact. There's three rooms you can escape to. And so like you have to make your own fun. You have to get along. You have to have a good time. You have to, you know, be sad at times, but then find it and be happy. And I think what really brought Chris and I together

is we're so similar. And by virtue, we were next to each other at night. I think our energies are just so similar. Our wanting to have fun, our desire to have fun, our desire to be happy, our desire to make others feel good, our desire to work out, our desire to, just like, there's just so many things that he would, one day he balled up a pair of socks things that like, he would, like one day he

balled up a pair of socks and was like, JoJo, think fast and threw it at me and I caught it. And I was like, dude, we could play catch with this. And he was like, we could. So we started throwing back and forth. And he was like, wait, we need to make it better. And I was like, he wrapped my hair tie around it. It'll be like an actual ball. And then, you know, we made an actual ball and we were playing catch for hours. Like just like little by little, we just started to kind of get closer and then we made up a dance together. and then we spent a lot of our time whenever we were bored, we'd be like, let's go rehearse. And then it was just always a laugh, always a good time.

But I knew we were really close when honestly, it was pretty early on, it was the first Saturday and I was laying, we were laying in bed and like our beds were obviously next to each other and I was looking at him and something was wrong. And I didn't know what, I don't know him, I've known him since Tuesday, but I could just, I could see that something was wrong. And so I asked him, I said, are you okay? And he was like, and I was like, are you, it's okay. Like you can, you know, like if you need to talk, like I know we don't know each other But like it's actually the same thing I don't know if you remember this but on forces when I told you I was like

Remember when we were in the we were in their accommodations room And it was the day that you were getting your first ultrasound Yeah, and you were going crazy and I was like talk to me pretend I'm Natalie pretend I'm your brother pretend I'm your mom like pretend I'm somebody like ah and I said a similar thing to Chris I was like talk to me. Pretend I'm Natalie. Pretend I'm your brother. Pretend I'm your mom. Pretend I'm somebody. Talk." I said a similar thing to Chris. I was like, talk to me. Pretend I'm whoever you need me to be, but talk. He essentially was saying that something that's very similar to what I feel in life, which is I feel like I'm always on and I love being on and I love having energy and I love making others feel good and I love being silly and I love having fun, but I also love recharging.

Here in this environment, there is no recharge station. You're always going and I just feel very drained right now and I feel like sad for a second. And I didn't wanna make it about me in that moment at all. So I kept it on him, but I was like, damn, I feel that exact same thing, but I've never been able to formulate it. And so that was a moment that I really realized like,

oh, we're similar, you know what I mean? And then that was a moment when I realized like, oh, I understand him very well. And then for me, I mean, he was there for me in my lowest lows in the house, always. I was having loads of realizations in the house that I didn't want to speak about, but you could see it in my energy

and you could see it in my tone and my body language. And he was there for me throughout all that without talking through it. And same for him. And then our happiest, our highest of highs came from each other as well. So it was just, it was a perfect recipe to make a best friend.

Were you aware of the conversations that people were having about you and Chris and the speculation? On the outside world. On the outside world? Not a clue. I mean, you have no clue what's going on in the outside world.

I asked the diary room every single day, has Katy Perry made it back from outer space? That's what I cared about. And they were like, JoJo, we cannot tell you outside information. I was like, it's irrelevant. You blinked and she was back. Yeah, literally.

But I was like, come on, it's irrelevant. The internet was very mad at her. Really? Yeah. Why? Not to make it about Katy Perry, but give you the 10 second version. Because she kind of like made the whole thing about, every time she talked about it, it was like,

oh, I'm like wearing glam to outer space. And she like just kind of made it like silly. And then like it took away from it. It wasn't just Katy Perry. They were mad at the whole whole of it. But what? But because then they tried to come out and say like, oh, no, this is about like empowering like young girls. And it was like, well then if it was about that, then you should have highlighted, you know, the women who were on there who have studied this their whole life.

But instead you like made it about glam and you made it about like, she like kissed the ground when she landed and like brought back a daisy. And she just kind of made it like a meme. Got it. You know what's kind of fascinating when you think about Katy Perry

and what I've got to know about you, it's like we live in this weird time where, you know, being an out of touch celebrity is like not invoked. It's not cool right now. It's not cool. It's not cool. It's like, you know, there is a balance of- People like genuine right now.

Yeah, genuine, yeah. It's beautiful. I mean, they always have to a certain degree, but like, yeah, it's just not the time to be a- I think it's just so much now of everybody. Well, yeah, and just to like come, and then to like fake, you know, like, you know, I think because some celebrities are, you know, again,

through no fault of their own, have just been so privileged and so like, put on a pedestal for so long, they don't even know how to be normal, or how to relate, or bring themselves down to a level of a fan. Which is again, like one of my favorite things about you is it's like, I knew who you were when I met you and I certainly knew like, you know,

your Instagram followers, I knew you were a big deal. Go on, hype me up. It's like, you know, you really are world famous. And it's, but like, it's so just- But you don't, yeah, that is the crazy- You're so just normal when I'm walking with you in public. It's like, you know, you really are world famous. And it's, but like, it's so just- But you don't, yeah, that is crazy. You don't act like that. You're so just normal. When I'm with you, you're really normal.

Like, you know, it's weird when you're driving with your face on a car around them. You know, that's not normal. Don't have that anymore. But like, the human JoJo Siwa, it's very, you know how to be relatable. Yeah, thank you. You know, like you know how to be JoJo You know how to be JoJo.

I'm very lucky, I have a good family that keeps me. I don't know if a lot of people know that about you. I don't know what the public perception of you is. Honestly, I think zero prior to doing Big Brother. And now I think post Big Brother almost 100% is crazy. It is, I mean, you do have like this, I mean, I remember you like FaceTiming my niece and being like, tell me about your dance competition.

And like, you just like, you care about people in a way that I don't think any other celebrity with your following, with your fame would care about people. And I think that does make you more like human. Thank you. It's something that like, I think that does make you more human. Thank you. Thank you. It's something that I think I've been around the opposite so much that it actually makes me cringe when I see the opposite.

And I have people in my life that are similar. And it's, I don't know, it's an energy that I love just around myself with because it's hard, right? But I also like, I love that people wanna say hi. I love that people want to say hi. I love that people want to ask me for good luck on their dance recital. Like that's adorable. If I was her agent, I got to do that with Hannah Montana, my life would be, I remember going to Miley Cyrus's Banger Store and I handed her a t-shirt. I still think about it to the day. I still question like,

I wonder if she remembers me handing her that t-shirt. And like, it's funny, because Miley and I now have met and we have, you know, hung out and it's like. Did you ever ask her about that? Oh, so I showed her the video. And like, obviously she's on the bangers tour. Like she does not remember me at age nine giving her a t-shirt, but it's just funny. You said that you like learned a lot about yourself

throughout this process. What was the first thing that kind of like triggered a realization? Oh man. learned a lot about yourself throughout this process. What was the first thing that kind of like triggered a realization? Oh man. Ooh, this is actually kind of hard to answer because I don't necessarily know the first, but I remember an early on,

I remember, I'll just share, I remember looking at my photo. And because everyone was looking at their photo and you know, Jack had his partner, Chris had his dog, Mickey had his dogs, Chesney had his family, everyone had their photo and I had mine as well. And it was a group photo with a load of people in it. But I remember looking at it and just thinking, hmm, I wasn't happy this day.

And I remembered why I wasn't happy this day. And now I'm here looking at this photo, realizing there is not a single reason that I should not have't happy this day. And now I'm here looking at this photo, realizing there is not a single reason that I should not have been happy this day. I'm with my family in Disney World, and it's Christmas. And that kind of made me honestly not be able to, there's actually a shot, I've seen it online, I don't know if it's in the episode or it was the live stream,

but it's on the last or second to last day and it's me staring at the photo and you can just see in my eyes like something's wrong. But this realization started on the first day or the second day, maybe the second day. And I just remember looking at that photo and being like, okay, what is this? What is this thought?

And then that opened a cage of a few different areas of my life to be completely fair and completely honest. Like it wasn't just one area of my life, but it just opened a can of worms that then for a few days really did me in. Whenever I was occupied or doing something, I was so fine, so happy. Whether that was playing catch with Chris,

dancing in the hot tub, playing pirates, whatever it was, if we were doing something, I was great, I was invested, my feet were there, and I was feeling happy. The second that I had a time to think, and I remember I would just go sit on the bike and I would just think, my brain just started to run with so many things that I have been okay with,

I have tolerated that nobody should. And it put a lot of things into perspective for me. And then at the end, those things got validated very quickly. I don't know, it was hard. It was hard to have those realizations and not be able to talk them through with anybody because obviously I know that I'm in a very, very public place.

And if I start talking about things like that's gonna be something that goes on the outside, that's out of my control and I don't want that. I don't want to do that to anybody. But I'm also realizing that I'm in here having these realizations and I like super had to internalize it. And then I think it was actually the best thing for me because I had to formulate my own thoughts for the first time.

You know, I didn't have my friends, didn't have my family to help me formulate my thoughts. It was purely me. And that is, it's such a weird concept. Cause you formulate your thoughts without even knowing it with other people's opinions. Like you put an outfit on in the morning, okay? And you go and like, forgive me if this is wrong, but like you're a girl,

so I'm assuming this is gonna be right. You put an outfit on in the morning, you go see Nick, right? You say, good morning, babe. If he gives you a little bit of a different look, are you ever like, it's my outfit or it's my hair? And you- I'm like, you think I'm ugly. Yeah. So you hate me. Yeah. So you think I'm ugly. You hate me. You want a divorce. You want a divorce. Like we have split custody of the child. Like you go, you go there and it's those little things that like I had to live without. But then also those big, big, big, big, big things that I then had to live without. And it was hard. It was difficult.

But I think it was the best thing that could have happened for me in there. Looking at that photo, what did you come to like the conclusion of that? Like, why weren't you happy? Um, look, I'll say this. I will. I will say this out of respect for another human in this situation. They have asked to not speak about it, for me to not speak about them. And I told them, I said, look,

that's going to make me seem like I am avoidant of the situation, I'm not avoiding another situation. Obviously a lot of people think that Chris has something to do with it. Chris does not have absolutely anything to do with it. Chris and I are friends. We have a very, very great friendship. It's a very strange, like, you were meant to be in my life. We have a very, very great friendship. It's a very strange, like,

you are meant to be in my life. We have a very special bond. It's genuinely unlike any friendship bond I've ever created, but my situations are completely unrelated and that kind of got misconstrued and that's hard because, you know, it's kind of feeding a false narrative. Are we talking about Kath? Yeah. And I obviously want you to be able to respect them and their wishes, but I'm just a little confused because they have been very outspoken in public,

which they have a right to do. They're in a public relationship. But it's more like, to your point, there was a lot of people making a lot of assumptions and speculations about your relationship with Chris. Yes. And we can get into your comments about, I don't think I'm a lesbian anymore,

and things like that, but. Oh, I knew coming on the Vile Files, I was gonna get into it. It's like, because I'm coming to the Vile Files, which is like hard pressing anyways, but then it's also with my best friend, so it's gonna be even worse. We also just want the team.

Yeah, yeah, we also just wanna know what's going on. And also Nick's older brother vibes, like, JoJo. But I mean, it's, you know, they, again, they, they, I'm happy to tell them. It's like, it's not, you know, you can't go on a video and share your side of the story and speak your piece and then go, please don't, keep your name out of my mouth. And look, so I'll be.

Keep my name out of your mouth, you know, it's like, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and keep your name out of my mouth. Keep my name out of my mouth. It's like, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's kind of exactly what happened. So they said I broke up with them at the wrap party. That's not entirely the story. The story goes, they had mentioned to production, they did not wanna come to the wrap party. And I said, all good, I'm gonna go to the wrap party.

Were they invited? Yeah, of course, of course. But it's not their environment. And that's so fine, it's so fine, like whatever. But I'm going to go and I'm going to have a great time and I want to meet all the crew and it's a big deal and everybody's going. And so they also had gotten the family's hotels and the cast hotels because you have to kind of come down and I'm already having all these crazy thoughts that I've been having in the

house and I need to formulate them. I need to talk to my mom. I need to be alone. I need to look at my phone. I need to see what's going on, I need to realize what am I feeling, what are these thoughts, I'm not in a place to talk. So I'm in a place to have a fun, cute, opening conversation, but I'm not in a place to actually talk yet.

And so I was honest about that, and I mentioned to them, I said, look, I know you don't wanna come to the after party, but I'm gonna go, and then I'm gonna go to my hotel, it's gonna be 3 a.m., I'm gonna go on my phone, so why don't you go to yours, and then I'll go to mine, and let's recon gonna be 3am. I'm gonna go on my phone. So why don't you go to yours and then I'll go to mine and let's reconvene tomorrow morning." And that upset them rightfully so they wanted to be with me, but I knew I wasn't a place for them. They didn't want to go to the wrap party, but they wanted to come to the hotel. But I was like, I'm just not. So anyways, 27. So we separated and they started driving

to the hotel. I go to the wrap party. And then about an hour into the wrap party, I was, I got, one of the welfare team said, hey, at the time my partner said, I want to come now. I've changed my mind. Like, what's the mood? So I took his phone. I filmed a video of the party. I said, this is not really your scene, but if you would love to come, like come.

And then something else happened. I got told something else that they didn't want. And I, it kind of made me feel like, okay, this is very strange. I really don't like this vibe right now. It felt like a setup maybe a little bit. Yeah, and so when they got to the party, they had these little like, they were kind of like banners for us.

They were like little huts. And so we started to have a conversation and I was like, just come in here for 10 minutes. Let's just have a chat before we go over there. And that conversation started immediate and I was gonna lead the talking, but then they kind of led the talking. And all I'm saying to every question they ask is,

I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, are you this? I don't know, are you that? I don't know, is it this? Is it this? I don't know. It's one of those classic conversations. Are you happy in our relationship? Yeah, but it's just like,

hey, I don't wanna have this conversation right now. And then like, but I wanna ask you some questions. And then they start having the conversation no one wants to have in this moment. And I was honest about that. And all of a sudden you're having it. And then all of a sudden we're having it. And all of a sudden, you know,

we're at the wrap party for Big Brother. I'm getting cussed out. It was very, the security guard kept turning around to me being like, and I was like, you know what I mean? Cause I understand why they're angry and why they're coming at me. But I also keep reiterating, like, I'm not in a place to talk. I was just with 13 people down to six locked away for 20 days.

I haven't spoken to anybody. I'm now in a room with 200 people. We're in this hut. It's outside. I haven't slept in 24 hours. I don't know what's going on. I need to be alone. Like I, and I, and, and now I'm just like, it's just a whirlwind.

Anyways, by the, you know 16th time somebody asked you, are you happy, do you wanna end things? You're gonna just spew your guts. And I was honest and I said, if you ask me tomorrow, I don't know my answer. If you ask me right now, my answer is yes. And then that obviously was taken as yes. And it was a yes and whatever.

But then they didn't wanna be alone. So I was like, all right, look, come to the hotel, we can continue talking. I mean, listen, obviously I get why anyone is sad to have a relationship and they don't wanna end, but what was their biggest, I mean, I guess, you know, you go on Big Brother. I don't know what their expectations of Big Brother were

or what they saw, but like, you know, you are very much in the public eye. Big Brother. Yeah, it's even more in the public eye. Big Brother isn't- Yeah, it's even more in the public eye. I mean, maybe- It's the most public eye. It's literally the eye is the most public eye. Sure, but like you have certainly done a lot of things

every day to be in the public eye. Of course. But obviously, you know, I didn't get to call you when you were there. Of course. Like you're isolated, it's very difficult. Like, you know, I get asked to do things all the time where it's like, hey, but you need to be away from your family.

And I'm like, yeah, sorry, not the time right now. He'd leave you for eight days, but not that baby. So I get what are the challenges of anyone dating someone who's going away, but we've talked about this. When I met Natalie, she was also younger. And a lot of it was like, are we at the same stages of life? Do we want the same things? Is being together taking anything away from the things

that she currently wants to do or her dreams or her, and things like that? These are conversations we had to have. These are things I had to consider being in a position where I was older than her at the time. I'm always older than her, but I was older than her. And you know what I'm saying? And so what was their expectation

about like what this experience would be for you? And like- You mean prior to going in. Prior to going in. And I get while, you know, they probably watched it the whole time, but like, you know, a lot of the speculation around you and Chris was just like, again, just people,

like at no time am I watching you and Chris and wondering if you're seriously having a thing with this guy or if you're, you know, like I know who you are, you know? I, you know, it was all like the internet's having a buzz. The internet's having a heyday. It's, our bond is beautiful, but our bond is what you saw.

You know what I mean? There's not anything that we did that you did not see. You know, you saw the extent of it. And so I think people are always gonna do what people do. And I think that people are always gonna believe what they wanna believe. People are always gonna run with what they wanna run with. And I think that's somewhere that I've always

just kind of been okay with. You know what I mean? Why do you think they came in with such a feeling of disconnect? I don't know. I really don't know. And it's not my place to speak on behalf of them. I know from me, there should have been no, like, questioning, especially around the boundaries of our relationship. So were you presented with doubts about your actions

in the house with Chris? While I was in the house? No. Okay. No, because I straight up said, what are your boundaries? And I had a few boundaries for them while we were in the house and they actually did proceed to break those boundaries. I will say that.

And that's something that it wasn't big enough for me to care about, but it was something that I had specifically asked, like, hey, look, for the 20 days, just can it with a few conversations. And those conversations actually picked up more. They had in-person ones as well. And like that for me was like, okay, look, I'm ending things anyways.

It's just another, it's another reason, you know what I mean? It was another piece of pie on the plate. But at that point, it didn't really matter. No, I definitely never overthought anything with Chris. Yeah, regarding- Why did Kath show up and start pressing you for these answers, following this experience that you would think they would have

a little bit more empathy for? You're literally coming out of this mindfuck. And you were asking for a little bit of time. It's, I'll say this, it's really hard to speak on because we had a mutual agreement. Like, look, let's just cool it for a second. Like we broke up for these reasons and you know that, you know, you, Kath posted a video basically alluding

to Chris and I are the reasons that we broke up. That's not the case. That is not the truth. And they know that and I know that. So they were going to post their video again, because they wanted to share their story, but say, like, hey, I did give some misleading information. Like Jojo and I have talked a bit more. Here's the truth, because I don't expect them to air out all the reasons why I did end things between us. Because if they did, it would be a little crazy, but all good if they wanted to. But

I don't think that's the right thing to do either. But following up that and them saying they were gonna make that statement, I also was going on a morning show the next day with Chris, and we were going to shut the JoJo and Chris rumors down, and we were gonna say we're friends. And I also was sure to say, like, look, life is life. You never know where life's gonna take you,

but I can tell you today right now, Chris and I are friends. We have a great special bond, but we are friends. But in regards to my ex now, the conversation that I had with them was they were gonna do their video, give a little more context,

and then they asked me to not speak about them. And the only reason why I'm okay to briefly speak about them is because they reposted their video and gave no context. And then continued to let their friend, who actually, while I was in the house, briefly speak about them is because they reposted their video and gave no context. And then continued to let their friend who actually, while I was in the house, did something pretty, pretty bad to them. Their friend has been going off on social media, trying to spread the same misinformation and it's gotten deeper.

And so that's the only reason why I'm okay to speak on my behalf out of protection for myself and out of protection for Chris. But I also don't want to speak about them because that was their request was to kind of leave them out of it. Again, which I respect, but it's like, you don't get to do that. And then you don't get to have it both ways. Like you don't get asked me for a business class flight home and then do that. You know what I mean? Like it's like when I already got to a plane ticket home. You know what I mean? Like it's, I don't know.

There's just a lot of, a lot of- Business class. Nick doesn't even put me in business class. You're putting your ex in business class. No, I did not. I was, and I was straight up, I was like, look, you posted the video again, you didn't give any context. Like I don't feel comfortable asking my team

to do that right now. It's a mess. And we had a long talk about it not being a mess anymore, and it's a mess. And I think that there's just so much misinformation out there that that would not be the right thing to do right now. Were you just as shocked as the rest of us

to see their video? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely was. I was actually, I was on the phone with my mom and I saw it on Instagram first and it was, you know, a cutoff. So I was like, oh, the full version must be on TikTok. And then I saw the full 13 minute version

and I was like, oh, I like, I'll be genuine. I did not watch it. 13 minutes is forever. I did not watch it. I did not watch it. It's a movie. It's a movie. It's honestly, I have gotten from an ex

a 47 minute audio message before that takes the cake I did not watch it. It's a movie. It's a movie. It's honestly, I have gotten from an ex a 47 minute audio message before that takes the cake because that was actually, it was a typed out message that you could hear them flipping the page, reading it off to me. So the 47 script, that was actually a TV show. I'm gonna read a book about a relationship, but please don't talk about it.

Literally. But yeah, I was definitely just as shocked. But I understand wanting to share your truth. And that is the exact thing that I told my ex. I said, look, if you would like to share what happened, if you would like to share how it happened, that's totally fine. It's your story. It's your life.

Please do not lead to the false narrative that's already out there that we are now going to say, hey, look guys, like, yes, we're very close. We have a beautiful bond. We're meant to be in each other's lives, but like, can it with these for a second? Like. Well, because it's like, well, one,

it's not true or accurate. And it's just like, again, like, it's also just kind of going against your whole literal whole identity. And then it's painting a narrative. There's so many reasons why my breakup happened. Yeah. Christopher is not one of them. And I mean, look, I actually told this guy, I was like, maybe it would be easier if he was, but you know what I mean?

Like he is not one of them. So if you're going to share the story, share the story. Well, that's kind of my point. It's just like, it's not an accident and there's an implication the way they led with it to suggest it again, like this thing that's not real. I mean, your friendship is real, but the romantic side of the speculation was just like,

again, goes not only like not true, it goes into your identity, but it also like it paints this picture of like infidelity, kind of like, you know, that speculation of like, again, paints you as a villain, paints you as like this, you know, and leaning into like an international narrative. Exactly. And it's like, that's where it's like, I understand. I understand Chris and I are very tight. We have this very beautiful bond, this very beautiful connection, but don't paint it out to look like I cheated on you with him because I did not. And that is, I will nail my feet into the

ground and I will stand on that ground. I did not, I would not, and I have not. You know what I mean? Do you want to talk about your comments about not being a lesbian anymore? I mean, I think I understand the context, but like for the people. I don't know what I said in the heat of the moment. Did I say fuck being a lesbian? I don't remember saying that. That's not my understanding.

My understanding is like you just said, I'm paraphrasing, but like you didn't feel like a lesbian fully encompassed your sexuality. And then it honestly seemed to motor spaced off the premise that at the time you were dating a non-binary person, so that kind of makes sense to say I'm queer, which is more inclusive. I also was around somebody who's super queer.

And I was looking at Danny, and Danny and I had had loads of conversations about being queer and gender identity, and it was beautiful. And I come out of the house to see that. And I honestly, I'll be really honest. I see the lesbian community coming at me saying like, how dare you, whatever. First of all, let's clarify a couple of different things here. Sexuality is fluid.

Gender identity are fluid. You can be one thing today and one thing tomorrow. People saying to me that I have never been a lesbian is crazy. That is absolutely crazy. I fell in love with a female at age 17 and that same female is in my life and I have a very special place for her.

Obviously our relationship did not work out but even right now going through all this shit, she reached out to me today and was like, you can always lean on me. And I was like, like I genuinely, I know. Like, so to say that I was never a lesbian, it just, it's like, is people are searching for something. But also, why is it not okay to say that I feel more queer now? And I think I was very open. I think a lot of people just jumped and said, oh, she's not a lesbian because, and I think

that's just crazy again on people. But people love a story and I can't blame them. But it's just, it's funny. It's funny how that really ticks people off when the whole thing in the LGBTQIA community is like sexuality is fluid. Like God, when I came out, I came out as pansexual. Then I came out as lesbian. Then I was like, maybe I am pansexual.

Then maybe I was like, nah, maybe I am a lesbian. Then I was like, maybe I'm bisexual. And I was like, you know what? I think I was pansexual, then I came out as lesbian, then I was like maybe I am pansexual, then maybe I was like nah, maybe I am a lesbian, then I was like maybe I'm bisexual, then I was like you know what, I think I'm just gay. Don't know what that means. Then I was like nah, maybe I'm a lesbian. And now I'm like ah, you know what, I think I'm just queer. I think I just am, I think I just exist, I think I'm done having my eyes be so one-sided,

you know what I mean? And I think I just, now I'm like, I could just exist. Clearly you can't in this world. Well yeah, I mean, thanks for clearing that up. I mean, I- The funniest thing to have to clear up. It's so funny. I know, it's just silly and funny and stupid,

but at the same time, to your point, it is also your identity, and you've been at the forefront. You know, as a huge public figure who's a part of the community. You've obviously been a leader, you've been a spokesperson, you've been a voice, and I'm sure it must be met some frustration on your part to just speak openly about your feelings, about your sexuality,

and seemingly a safe environment. Can I be so honest? I could literally care less, because no one can decide my sexuality. Not even me. You know what I mean? I can't help what I feel. I can't help who I fall for.

That's how I realized I was gay in the first place. And I think I had to learn at such a young age, honestly, with my height. People bully me for being tall. They said I was a giant tall, and I was too tall for my age. And I learned at that point, I can control a lot of things.

I can't control my height. And then I realized the same thing with my hairline. And then I realized the same thing for my age. And I learned at that point, I can control a lot of things. I can't control my height. And then I realized the same thing with my hairline. And then I realized the same thing with my voice. And then I realized the same thing with my body weight. And then I realized the same thing with everything down the line. And so I think now I'm at the point where it's like,

oh my God, people are really going there. Like you can't control that. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. People just jump. But I think part of the realization of being queer was me in the house realizing I'm not entirely happy and maybe that's a side of me that's not happy.

You know what I mean? Maybe that's, I'm putting myself somewhere and the thing is queer is a very umbrella term. You know what I mean? It's very umbrella term and it kind of just encompasses the entire community. And I was like, that's where I feel. You know, I don't feel, that's a lot of the talks

that Danny and I had where you don't need to put yourself in a box within the community, you can just be. And that was a beautiful conversation that him and I had. And that's kind of what made me realize like, oh, I don't need to be in a box. You know what I mean? It doesn't matter. I can have open eyes and an open heart

and walk with one foot in front of the other. Well said. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks guys. How much, now that you're back, are you, you know, because prior to going on Big Brother and experiencing this normal JoJo, as you kind of refer to it, you've been out there just, you know, grinding, working hard, your music career, dropping music, going viral, and having the internet talk about you both positively and negatively, and you just keep on plugging away. But a lot of, especially your music career

is more this kind of brash, shock value JoJo. Not anymore, babe. We're done with that. I'm done with that. It's another realization that I had in Big Brother. I was like, I'm faking this. I am trying to do music to try and get as big of a click as possible and trying to shock as many people as possible.

And I'm like, I'm not happy with that. So my next song coming out is actually, it's called Bulletproof and it's about not being bulletproof. The video is purely dance and that's what makes me happy. And it's fun. It feels finally like back to just making art instead of making art that I hope will be successful. Like if it's successful, great.

If it's not, we'll try again with something else. But I'm doing it because I love it. So what specifically are you done with when it comes to your music career? I think just not doing things anymore for the shock value, doing them because I love them or because I think it's gonna be fun. I think that's one thing that as a kid I really realized

is when I had fun, that's what worked and translated well to the audience. And I think even coming out of Big Brother, I think I really found massive parts of myself and I almost remembered that, you know what I mean? And I was thinking, I was like, I don't need to be stressed doing a music video, I need to have fun doing it.

Is there a world where like, I was actually talking to Tyler about this over the weekend and like there's a part of me that hopes that you get to a point in your life where you just like, you've accomplished all your dreams. You're, you know, you have more money than you know what to do with. I don't know your financial situation,

but I think you're doing okay. And you just kind of pick an entirely different life that truly is normal. Like, and I don't even, like, listen, like who am I to say what that should be? I don't think my life is normal. I feel very privileged and blessed to be able to do what I do.

But like there is like, we work hard on keeping us, just having as much, like we do a lot of normal things and we embrace that and we don't try to lose that. And so much of your life from such a young age has been the opposite of normal. And because of your value and because of the value you bring to so many people around you, I just don't see a lot of people letting you be normal.

And do you think that's something that's gonna be a challenge, even if you want it for yourself? Honestly, I really don't. I don't see that being a challenge. That's actually something too, and that goes back to the Chris conversation that he was having.

That's one thing about his friendship, or just our dynamic that's really nice is it feels so normal because we're both this like boom and then it's like feels so normal when it's just like down and so like I think I try to find that within friends right where I can have those moments and I definitely have those moments but I get what you're saying of like is there ever a point where you would almost be like all right I'm call it retired you know what I mean and honestly I hate this answer because it's horrible and it makes me sad and I don't like it.

I don't like to think about it. But yes, there will be a day where when my right hand man passes away and it will be the saddest day of my life because she is my mom, I will be done. And it's purely for the reason of I can do it without her, but I don't want to. I think that she is the other half of my career. And I'm very grateful for that. And she always has been. And I could do a show like Big Brother. I could come on your podcast. I could do stuff like that. But I could never do a music video or a live performance

or, you know, star in a movie. I could do small little things here and there and have fun. Or your outfits. But what outfit would I wear? Your outfit. What outfit would I wear? Who's gonna book everybody? You never would be, I mean, who knows?

Like you said. Like at that point, give me babies, give me a house. But you look like, well, I don't know what you'll be doing, but you're such a doer and you're so... I'll open a dance studio. You will never retire. It's just like, it might be different. I love indoor skydiving and my brother's now an instructor.

I always talk about, I would open a tunnel and own a tunnel and employ him and let him run it. I also would open a dance studio and a heartbeat. Even keep the one I have now and just open it. I would, yeah, heartbeat. Like I would do something. Maybe I'll open a coffee shop. Who knows? Honestly, knowing me, I'll figure out whatever it is my kids want to do and I'll start embracing that. And if they want to play soccer, I'll probably, you know, buy a soccer team and we're going to be the best soccer players ever been. You know what I mean? Are you still stuck on Freddie, Eddie,

and Teddy or have you moved on? No, I've moved on. Are you ready for this one? Freddie's staying, Freddie is staying. But Silver, Silver Siwa. Wow. Isn't that so fun? That reminds me of 902 and I have a girl, Erin Silver, and she went by Silver. It's cute. And my brother wants to name his, get out of here.

My brother wants to name their kid Golden and Goldie, you name it Goldie. So I was like, if his kid's name was Golden and mine was Silver, that's so cute. We were talking about this yesterday, JoJo, on the show. Silver is, it's doable. Golden's definitely better. Well, Golden was the name of Natalie's stepdad, so.

There you go, it's cute, Goldie, Golden, it's cute. You just can't name, don't go so far as that you're just naming your kid things. Ready, Eddie and Teddy? No, it's a name. Those are names. You know like influencers are kind of taking it to an X level and doing like you're saying silver Crazy names. Maybe silver would just be the nickname. Well, didn't you get like Freddy, Eddie and Teddy tattoo? Silver's not bad. Silver's doable. It's borderline. Summer's doable. Like it's borderline. It's doable.

A pretty Eddie and Teddy tattoo. Didn't you get it tattooed on you? No, I have not. Those are all fake. But I do have a child now from Big Brother. I don't know if he got much air time, but yeah, Christopher and I had a child. There's a clickbait.

But we had a child, his name is Chase. If you ask Chesney though, his name is Lenny. And this child is? A teddy bear. Yes, of course. Yep. That's a thought. Obviously. But like, we literally-

Who is custody? I do right now, but we have spoken about the custody and like we do have to split him. Yeah. We have definitely spoken about that. But like splitting like cross-country, like he's- Yeah, like we'll ship him back and forth. Okay. If Chris comes here, he can take him home. And then if I come there, I would take him home.

Like, well, we'll pass the baby. I know you were asked like at the reunion about the like, what did you say, like 48 hours later? But like in that moment, like, was it really just about like, you were tired of confessing things on camera? No, it was, I had just gotten my letter and my letter confirmed every thought and doubt that I already had.

Okay. And then, yeah, so that was like, and I really wanted to confide in him and I wanted to talk to him and I wanted to tell him things but I couldn't out of production. That kind of makes sense. And so yeah. Did you talk to them about the letter

or was that kind of like, you know what? Yep. You did. Yeah, I did and yeah, I found out that that letter, Did you ever talk to them about the letter? Or was that kind of like, you know what? Yeah I did. And yeah, I found out that that letter, you know, had gone through a few like, are you sure that's what you wanna say? And yes, I'm sure.

And so that, it was just hard. Look, it verified everything I was already thinking. And that's okay. It's okay. And I think that they're a wonderful human, just not for me. And that's okay. It's okay and I think that they're a wonderful human, just not for me. And that's okay. What does your love life look like in your eyes

in the near future? Great question. I don't know. Are you already dating somebody? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No. Can you imagine? No.

I know. So news. It's like I was flying back and what did you imagine? No, I'm so news. It's like I was flying back and wouldn't you know it. Yeah, back this person. The flight attendant. No, no, no, no. It's, I want to, I wanna breathe. Well, how, I mean, but you know, when I met you,

you were, I don't know, I forgot who you're talking to or dating, you opened up to me a little bit about your dating life at the time. And like you were 20 and like, you were kind of like, hey, I'm only 21. And I was kind of like, hey, you're only 21. So like, just live your life, figure yourself out. And I think I, for me, I jump quickly.

And I think maybe I just need to, you know, have fun, explore, explore myself, explore people, have fun. I'm definitely a connections person. I really care about comfort within somebody. I'm not the type that's just gonna go have a night out, rail and get out. That's not my vibe at all.

I'm definitely somebody who's a feeler and I'm a lover. And I don't know, I think- You'll rent a U-Haul anytime. I know U-Haul anymore. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I just wanna be, I just wanna live and I just wanna be happy and I can say that I'm very, very happy.

I'm very happy right now. I think single JoJo is like a good JoJo for the time being. Yeah, I think I just, I think I realize, here's what I realized. Okay, let me, we're gonna pretend you re-asked me, okay? What's your love life look like right now? I'm so happy where I'm at right now that I just wanna stay here.

Whatever that means, whatever this is, I'm great here. Did you see we posted our full length wedding video on Instagram? Oh, no, I haven't seen it in my ex's head. I was gonna say you're in it with like your four ex girlfriends. No. You're, um, I haven't seen it in my exes. I was about to say you're in it with like your four ex girlfriends. Go. You're three.

Get a ride, man. Sorry, sorry, sorry. We allowed people to bring guests. We did. We said bring your plus ones. Okay, can I be fully honest? Can I be fully honest? I didn't know,

and now that we're planning my brother's wedding, I didn't know how real wedding guests were. I didn't. No, it's totally fine. But like I didn't know how real wedding guests were. I didn't know that that was like a thing. And like I see it as inviting my brother and we're like, is the relationship that serious? Maybe we shouldn't invite them. Like, and so I see that now and I never realized with your guys' wedding. Do you know your wedding was the first one that I've gone to as like a conscious adult?

Like I went to one as like a four year old. I did not know. Your wedding was like genuinely, oh, I guess I went to my cousins, but like Like I went to one as like a four year old. I did not know that. Your wedding was like genuinely, oh, I guess I went to my cousin's, but like showed up, went out and like it's my cousin. But like genuinely as a conscious adult, like first wedding I've ever gone to. And so I didn't know any of those things.

You know what I mean? I do, I remember you were like, I mean, it's pretty obvious that I didn't know that. I remember you were like, my niece who's 10 years old, doesn't know anything about anything. And she said, you were like making out with your girlfriend at the time. And she goes, mommy, JoJo really likes that girl

over there. You're making out there? That's gross. I need to cool it. JoJo really likes that girl. I'm staying right where I am now. I'm happy now. Just while you don't do,

and so many people have done this, and I've done this, and I have a large family, and I've done this. And I have a large family, so it happens a lot. But like, weddings, you can get a plus one, bring a stranger, it doesn't matter, it's a plus one. You don't have to like- Don't have them in the photos.

Don't bring them, the family photos, like the family photos for everyone. No, my parents already said no matter who you're dating. I want my girlfriend, I want my boyfriend. And like, there's so many randoms in my family photos from people who are just like decades old. I don't know. I don't care if you're dating, the love of your life,

they're not in those photos. You always can do the one at the end, be like, all right, now bring in everyone to make some, people feeling included, but like, they're not part of the actual family photos. Like people make those mistakes all the time. Just like, who the fuck is that? Like oh yeah I saw for a couple weeks. Sorry I thought we were gonna make it. So music to be clear because I just don't want I don't want people to think you're

done with music or anything. No no no. I'm very much so in on music. I love music. I love creating music. I love performing. I'm going on tour later this year, all over North America and Canada. I am performing in Mexico City coming up. I'm performing in Chicago. When is that?

Mexico City. Mexico is in May 17th. We'd love to come, but yeah. We can't. May 17th. I really want to go to Mexico City period and it would be cool to go see you there. Would've been fun. Okay, there'll be more, there'll be more.

Yeah. Yeah, I have a lot of performances coming up. Maybe even some back in the UK, which I'm very, very excited about. I'd go see my family over there now. Is Chris gonna come visit? I really hope so. I really hope so.

I would think, I mean, look, we lived together and obviously him and I have a very, very, very special, special little connection together. And so I think I give us about like a week of not being around each other to be like, hey, like really miss you. Like actually miss your presence. And like we've spoken so much since we've left obviously,

but yeah, it's really weird to go from living together, doing, I mean, and you're not just living, right? And sleeping and eating, like think about everything you do on a day to day basis. Okay. Like you walk into your closet and you get dressed and you're out in the kitchen cooking breakfast, right? You're that doesn't happen there.

There is no closet that you go into. Just to get dressed, you're dressing in front of each other. You shower in front of each other. Like it's like, you are purely living together and then with 13 other people. And so it's like, once you gravitate towards each other, you just do. It's like you saw Chris's penis.

No, did see his ass. Did see his ass and everybody saw it straight on camera. But yeah, no, I actually, I didn't see one penis while I was there. Really? Do they have like the fog in front of like, they do. Yeah, they have the fog. Yeah, no, no, no peepees were shown.

Thank God. I don't know if I recover if I saw a penis. No, I don't think any of us will. Scarred for life. Yeah. What are some of the things your fans are just dying to know about you that you never wanna share?

Some of the things that, I mean, okay, look, genuinely right now, everyone has been saying what was the 48 hours? What did you draw on his hand? What are Chris and Jojo? What did you draw on his hand? Can I be so completely honest? Don't remember. Don't remember exactly at all. We used to talk for the first few nights, we talked genuinely for like an hour and we would just laugh and we would talk and like first few nights, we talked genuinely for like an hour and we would just laugh and we would talk about nothing. We just tried to stay awake laughing.

Okay, I have a question. I'm gonna have it. Well, just for all the people who are listening to this and everything you're saying makes a ton of sense to me and we all know the internet likes to run with the narrative and blow it out of proportion. But if there is anyone out there who is listening to this interview and just says,

no, I saw with my own eyes, I saw what I saw, you guys have something special, there's like this connection, like what do you want people to realize or know about this relationship with Chris and why it can be what it is in your mind and still be nothing more than platonic? Like, I think there is a lot of ignorance and like people who are confused about the conversations

around sexual identity and things like that. And then we put in these like, like these barriers in our head of what we think that means or what that doesn't mean. So like, why do you feel like you could connect with Chris the way that you did? You know, there's the scenes where he's kind of caressing you on the back, like I get it.

Who says no to a back scratch? Why can you do that? Who says no? And it doesn't have to mean it's some sort of sexual thing or why it doesn't have to mean, you know, you're questioning your sexual identity because of this man, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, I'll be so honest.

I wish I could explain it. It's interesting when I sent Chris a sappy text when I left, because it was very sad. I was very sad to leave the UK in general. I was very sad to leave the big brother family. I was very sad. He was the last person that I saw because we were doing this morning together,

which is a morning talk show over there. And in that sappy text, I wrote and I said, I love that I can't explain. I love it because it just is, it just exists. I think that it's people, people can see that whatever it is, is special. And it doesn't, that there's so many different kinds of special. I have so many people in my life that have come into my life and I've gone, oh, they're different. They're a different person in my life and they're meant to be here. And he is a layer of that and a level of that. And I don't want to spend time, effort, energy on trying to convince somebody of something.

It's not worth it. We had a great time together. We will continue having a great time together. A lot of people in the beginning thought our friendship wasn't genuine, thought we were using each other. That was honestly hilarious to us because we were like, we would take each other off in two seconds if we weren't genuine, you know what I mean? And so, yeah, I think that the world, no matter what,

and Chris has said this as well, like the world is just gonna do what the world does and people are gonna talk and people are gonna have theories and people are gonna come up with things. And the funniest part of it all is Chris and I are gonna play tennis and go for a roast and you know see the same thing that the world season laugh laugh and have a good time and and enjoy it and practice our dance and be happy and be people in each other's lives or hopefully

ever I mean in some in some form it's, it's a good place to end it. Yeah, it's just, who wouldn't wanna have fun? Who wouldn't wanna have a good time? Who wouldn't wanna make a friend? You know what I mean? I think, and we're both very similar in that way, and I'm, yeah, it's a very special friendship that just, it's one of the last things I said to him

on the show, like, you were meant to be in my life, and I'm grateful that this has brought you into it. Well, thanks for coming on. I love who you are. I love you, I love who you are. And I'm proud of you. I love you so much. And I'm glad more and more people get to discover

this version of JoJo. It's my favorite version of you. And when you're working, you're out being JoJo Siwa, You know, it's when you're working, you're out being Jojo Siwa, you know, in the loud kind of colorful person that you can be. It's great. But like, I love this version that people get to see more of. And I'm just proud of you. Thank you.

I appreciate that very, very much. Love you very, very much. Both of you. Love you. Yay. Thanks for listening, guys. We'll see you tomorrow. Bye. Both of you. Love you. Yay. Thanks for listening guys. We'll see you tomorrow. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Welcome to Combat Story. I'm Ryan Fuget and I served war zone tours as an army attack helicopter pilot and CIA officer over a 15 year career. I'm fascinated Fuget and I served warzone tours as an Army Attack Helicopter Pilot and CIA Officer over a 15 year career. I'm fascinated by the experiences of the elite in combat. On this show, I interview some of the best to understand what combat felt like on their front lines. This is Combat Story. They were pinned down from a dishka and the dishka was coming from the third story of a seven story apartment building.

And then we blew that third story out within like maybe a minute and a half or two minutes of getting that nine line.