The Viall Files - E927 Ask Nick - His Brother Is A Bum

Episode Date: May 5, 2025

Welcome back to another episode of The Viall Files: Ask Nick Edition!  Our first caller’s boyfriend’s 8 year old runs the house. Our second caller is debating telling her brother to move out of their parent’s house. And, our third caller poses the question “Did my ex just want to bring me chicken or does he love me and is just chickening out?”  “He’s eight and he doesn’t know how to ride a bike?" Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff every Monday starting October 21st! Available wherever you get your podcasts and YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 https://open.spotify.com/show/4NWA8LBk15l2u5tNQqDcOO?si=c03a23d537f94735   Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: https://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice, send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line!  To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: SKIMS - Shop the SKIMS Ultimate Bra Collection and more at https://SKIMS.com and SKIMS stores. SitterCity - Go to https://sittercity.com to find the care your family deserves. Breathe easier knowing your kids are in good hands. Mint Mobile - This year, skip breaking a sweat AND breaking the bank. Get your summer savings and shop premium wireless plans at https://mintmobile.com/VIALL Article Furniture - Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim, visit https://article.com/viall and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout ASPCA - To explore coverage, visit https://aspcapetinsurance.com/viall   Timestamps: (00:00) - Intro (02:17) - Caller One (31:41) - Caller Two (52:41) - Caller Three Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @justinkaphillips @dereklanerussell  

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How's it going? Great. My name is Rachel. I'm 37 and my boyfriend's eight-year-old runs the house. What do I do? All right. Well, sorry to hear. Me too. Tell me more.

Tell me more. Yeah. So my boyfriend and I, we both separated. I met him two months after my separation, four months after his separation. So very, very soon after we both divorced. And so he co-parents with his ex-wife. I have lots of feelings on that whole situation. But they share 50-50 custody. And so the first six months of me meeting my boyfriend, it was just, it was wonderful. It was hot and heavy, we got to travel, we just had lots of fun.

And then six months in, I met his son, who was seven at the time, and kind of reality started to hit a little bit. I saw him as a different person, which was really beautiful. I wanted to meet him as a dad, because I just met him as my boyfriend first, you know. And it was great, I'd say, at first. And then I just started realizing that, you know, between, and it was great, I'd say at first. And then I just started realizing

that, you know, between him and his ex wife, they're both kind of vying for the good parent, they want to be the best one, which means no rules, no responsibilities, no expectations. And it started to really grind my gears, brought up a lot of stuff from my own childhood because I was raised in a very kind of authoritarian disciplinarian home. We had responsibilities since we were like four years old. So I'm worried that he's raising an enabled child. I'm worried that he's an enabled boy who will become an enabled man, which we just know better now. And that, you know, between him and his ex-wife, I'm just worried about their parenting style. Where does your general worry come from? Is it like, and I'm sure it's in all of the buckets

on some degree, but is it like from the point of view, is the girlfriend who just finds this eight-year-old is kind of irritating. Is it just from like, you know, your love for your boyfriend in a sense that like, you know, you have some notes for him as a father, you know, just from your perspective, or is it just like, yeah, you're, you're legitimately worried about this boy turned growing up to be a fuck. Where, where do you think, like I guess where does your motivation come from, which bucket do you think it's more is driving your concern?

I thought about this a lot and I truly feel like it's coming from that third bucket of like, he's almost nine and cannot, you know, like he's lacking some critical thinking. He can't get his own snacks in water. He doesn't know how to ride a bike or tie his shoes. He's eight and he doesn't know how to ride a bike? Yes. He's very averse to new experiences. So, you know, if he tries, if my boyfriend tries to get him to ride a bike or even a scooter, you know, a scooter where he just

has to pedal it, he just is extremely averse to new experiences. And so I feel like my boyfriend caves very fast instead of encouraging him and pushing him and developing confidence in the, in the child. He's just kind of like, okay, okay, okay. He's crying. Okay. He's going to go tell my ex-wife that, you know, it's so horrible at my house and then it's going to cause this huge thing. And it's just, it's parenting from this place of fear. And I don't have kids. So I totally respect that there are things I do not know. Sure. Well, I mean, Yeah, but you know, I'm 37 and I'm a child of many divorces. You know, my mom's on her

third husband, my real dad's on his third wife. It's like, I just, I do have that lived experience. And so I'm just like, you guys, you have a real opportunity here to align yourselves and encourage him to start critically thinking and start developing skills that an almost nine year old should have. Yeah, I mean, not being able to tie, I learned, I remember learning how to tie my shoes.

I was four. 100% or ride my bike. learned I remember learning how to tie my shoes. I was four 100% or ride my bike and I remember getting a well like what about I mean tying your shoes is like a basic skill They teach you in kindergarten. Yeah. Well, I guess it's different now turns out They're like, oh all the shoes have velcro now or all their slip-ons and it's like I don't know I just think that that's kind of a sucky excuse to be like, okay, you have to tie a knot. Yeah, but yeah, doesn't like, we're forgetting about like, to your point, like, your child, children should want to, and be able to learn things and discover new things and be curious. And, and yeah, they. And yeah, resiliency is something that I hope to teach my children very early.

I hope my children don't describe their upbringing in household as authoritarian, but like, I absolutely, like the moment River like understands wants and needs, and the moment she can help, she's gonna have to earn the things that she wants versus needs. Even if it's picking up her room,

even if it's a stupid, silly little chore, it's just the idea of working towards something and not just getting something you want because you stomp your feet and throw a fit. But like you said, I mean I really empathize with your boyfriend because you know, that was my first thought when you brought it up. It's like well you know, sounds like early separate,

you know like you guys, well this really has nothing to do with your guys' relationship but yes, just like the idea or notion that clearly, like my guess was like he's probably worried about fighting for his son's affection. That being said, like you've only been, how long you been dating this guy? A year and a half. A year and a half.

So like even before they got divorced, like what was this kid doing or not doing? Like how toxic was their relationship? Or were they just like forgetting about their son or something? Yeah, it was, so she was a stay at home mom and they had this arrangement. He was pretty much, I mean, worked constantly,

traveled for work a lot. So she was the primary parent. And so I believe from my perspective, and again, this is my perspective, is that he really took a step back in the parenting role and let her do it. And he didn't agree on it. Instead of saying, listen, let's align on our parenting styles.

She basically was able to, this is his story, that she stuck a iPad in front of his face at a very, very young age while he was eating and so now Like the screen time and food is extremely tied together He eats just a couple of things which when I say runs the house, that's kind of what I mean Like my boyfriend has to make His own food or food for us and then food for the kid which I you know I've heard from many friends that have kids that that you know, okay Well, that's normal you say you'll never do it and then you for the kid, which I've heard from many friends that have kids that that, okay, well, that's normal. You say you'll never do it and then you end up doing it. But it's

to an extreme level where he will try and call for his mom if he doesn't get what he wants, food-wise or screen time-wise. But yeah, so she kind of took the primary parenting role. And so now he's got 50-50 custody and he's kind of forced to be a parent now. Let me ask you this, like you have concerns, what's your boyfriend's level of concern? He has gotten offensive when I bring it up, you know, like, hey listen, I'm concerned about this. And you know, it's coming from a place of like,

I hope to have a kid someday. I was hoping to have a kid with my ex-husband, but that didn't work out. And so I'm thinking, okay, well, is this the person I wanna parent with? So I'll try to bring things up and of course, he gets defensive about his parenting style, or like my kid's going through a lot,

he's dealing with the divorce, he's dealing with this. And I'm just like. Yeah, I mean life is hard, you know? Yeah, I know, it's just kind of like, he's a very privileged child from two very privileged homes and I don't know, I just have a hard time relating to the kid, but. Well listen, I guess my answer is you're just gonna have

to figure out a way to communicate how you feel regardless of how your boyfriend responds because his response is telling about a great many things about the relationship. You've been dating this guy for a year and a half. It's a decent amount of time, it's relatively early. You still have a lot to learn about each other. But all I need to know is that this nine year old

doesn't need to know how to ride a bike or tie their shoes to know that this kid's falling behind. And the other things that you describe honestly sound a bit alarming. I don't know how common this is, but yeah, like you always hear stories about kids these days and things like that, or gentle parenting. And like, I'm so grateful obviously that mental health is far more considered in general,

both for society and for children, that we understand childhood trauma and the impact it has on children. I'm grateful that we better understand young children. And like, you know, in the first couple of years, like you really, you can't over spoil a child, you know? Like it's, you know, Rivers, 14 months now, right? And now she's starting to throw, starting to stomp her feet a little bit, you know, River's 14 months now, right? And now she's starting to throw,

starting to stomp her feet a little bit, you know? And we're, you know, we gently like might take something, we're not punishing her at all, you know? She's just, we're just trying to love on her, right? At some point, there's gonna be a time where a time out might be needed, you know? And she's gonna scream and stop her feet. Like it's interesting as a parent, you know,

at first when your baby's just crying and you just want her It's interesting as a parent, at first, when your baby's just crying and you just wanna take care of them, but now we can tell the difference between she's hurt because she fell down and she had a boo boo, versus like, nah, she is expressing herself and she's upset. And so how we treat that is a little differently

and we're trying to walk that fine line, but it's really concerning that there are children out there who are lacking emotional resilience because of a great deal of things. I mean, there are more and more divorces out there. I really empathize with both the children and parents going through divorce because, yeah, it's heartbreaking just because again, you'd want to have that connection

with your child and I truly can't imagine, but that being said, this is important, right? And especially young men need to, I really am concerned about young men, period, in general. I know there's a show on Netflix now and I haven't watched it yet because it's dark and whatever, I think, adolescence or whatever.

Just like all the kids who grew up in the pandemic on their phones, on Snapchat, where parents really didn't understand the dangers, didn't understand that these devices were weapons, these devices were an access point for literal predators to have access to their children. Those predators could be people, those predators could just be websites, algorithms.

It's a scary world out there. And you need diligent parents to be, loving your child isn't just, it's not being best friends with your child. It's not being the favorite parent. Loving your child is sometimes saying no. Oh yeah, and it's easy for me, I think again, to kind of come in and be like,

wow, I'm seeing this from a bird's eye view. Like, I see the future, I see, oh God. But sometimes my boyfriend will say, they kind of joke, we're just pals, we're bros. I'm like, but you're not bros, you're his dad, you're his father. It's fun to have a night where you're like, yeah, we're just paling around or we're going to bro time out.

But they always say it and I think it's softening the relationship between him and he's afraid to sort of yeah, yeah parent, you know And but I will say that we had just started last week couples therapy pretty much around the kid Although I sort of didn't say it was for the kid But you know, I also want to know kind of what my role is and if I'm stepping into this I've met the ex-wife I think she's fine. She's lovely. She's very kind to me. I do worry about their ability to even communicate,

which I think has an effect on the child. But couples therapy went great. And I was amazed about how non-defensive my boyfriend was. So I was like, okay, so there is hope here. Because at first I was like, for the first probably six months, I was like, oh God so there is hope here. Because at first I was like, for the first probably six months I was like, oh God, he's not listening to me, I worry about this. But I guess I do think that there is hope, which is great.

Yeah, I mean, first of all, the fact that you guys are in couples therapy is a great sign, right? That's obviously, that's just the opportunity to have a mediator is always helpful. I would say just try to come from a place of support and empathy. Natalie and I were, obviously as new parents,

we do a lot of talking about what we think we might do as parents as River gets older and we're just kind of figuring it out. Obviously it's very fun to, and we're very privileged and fortunate for, as parents to take a quick trip to New York and stop at a baby store and buy something for River because it's fun. And truly it's like more for us than for River,

you know, like she gets excited, but we get excited getting her excited. But you know, and I have talked about, you know, when she could alter, we have to be careful, you know, and we've talked about how we want our daughter or kids in general to behave around adults and how we want them to be respectful and how we want them to be respectful and how we want them to grow up in this world. And I think it just comes down to maybe, again, first it's always empathizing with their position, empathizing with the fact that as a single dad

going through a divorce, totally get the fear of not being connected with his son because he has the chance for mom to be the fun parent. But it really is like, I would ask, what do you want for your son? I'm guessing his answer might just be like, I want him to be happy. But honestly, that is not my goal forever.

My goal forever is to teach her the skills so that she has the ability to build a life for herself as an adult that will eventually bring her happiness. But happiness comes from, she has to be able to overcome adversity in order to be happy. She has to be able to chase her and pursue her dream. She has to be able to, yeah, and in pursuit of those dreams. Yeah, you have to, able to, yeah. And in pursuit of those dreams, you have to. Navigate tough situations.

Yeah, you have to, you know. There's a lot of things that you have to develop and go through in order, and happiness is so subjective. Like, what is happiness? You know, like, just because you get the Skittles, you know, and you're happy in that moment, like, is that happiness? I want my kid to be able to pursue their life

and be able to face life as life comes at them. So I think it's just more asking your boyfriend what he wants for his son. How does he want his son to be able to interact as he gets into middle school? And poor middle school's mean. High school is tough. If this is a kid who's just so coddled

and so bubbled and so protected from any discomfort, really. Like how is this kid going to deal with the world not caring about his comforts? And maybe that's a way to ask that question. The world doesn't really care about your son being comfortable. And right now, him and his ex-wife really just want their kid to be comfortable because they don't want it. And maybe there is guilt from both of them of being divorced and things like that.

But they have to get past that. And they got to think about their son as a 15, 16, 17 year old, 18 year old, a young 20 year old, who's going to teach him these skills if it's not gonna be them? And then hopefully you get your boyfriend to see what you're seeing. And then there's the whole challenge is how does he get his ex-wife to see that, you know?

And then hopefully it's just about him just using that we and us language. They may be divorced but there's still a we there. And the we is we are parents of this child. It's our responsibility to raise this child. It's up to us to make sure our child gets what they need. And so he can just say, hey, I'm just, I'm a little concerned about our child

and like, what can we do? You know, he is, you know, hey, I'm worried that, you know, you gave him the iPad. Like whatever happened up into this point between the two of them, they have to just let that shit go. And they, there's, you know, they're still a team when it comes to parenting their child. And you should encourage your boyfriend to be a teammate with his ex-wife. And the language he should use around her is one about just being a team. And hopefully, that's less adversarial to her, but they have to make a pact.

It'd be like, listen, what we can agree on is that we want our son to have a good life. We want our son to be able to have what he wants. But the world isn't gonna give him what he wants. And as privileged as they are, what happens if they're not around? We can't predict the future. And so it really just comes down to that.

But I don't think you should let it go. And if this is a man that you wanna potentially marry, if this is a man that you wanna consider having children with, then yeah, this matters. This is a man that you wanna potentially marry, if this is a man that you wanna consider having children with, then yeah, this matters. This is a big deal. You are not both 22-year-old kids with no responsibilities who can just half fuck around and find out and be like, yeah, I don't know, maybe he is or isn't

my future baby daddy, but we're having fun right now. That's not the life you're in right now. No, no, yeah, it feels very different than that. You know, but I'm starting to get massive anxiety around the thought of moving in together. Even I've taken a step back of staying over there, and I didn't realize it at first what it was. I was just like, I don't, you know,

I'm just gonna stay at my house tonight when I realized the kid was over there. And then I started realizing like, it's just because I just get so triggered by this child. But I do, I think- I hear ya. I dated someone who had a son, a single mom. Father was not in the picture.

She was very privileged and had everything she needed to, and had a great community around her. But at our brief time dating, it was, yeah. My point is, I had opinions, and we were very early in dating, but it was, I didn't feel like it was my place to say or do anything, and I felt like this young boy needed a male role model,

and I didn't feel like at that time it was my place to play dad. But yeah, it was hard to ignore. I get it, it's just hard to look the other way. It's hard to be in the house and see this child just kinda just doing whatever. And you can see the signs of him, what this adult's gonna look like.

So I totally get that it's very hard for you to just pretend it's not there. It's a child, you know? So I totally get that it's very hard for you to just pretend it's not there. It's a child, you know? Like, child, children are hard to ignore. They don't let you ignore them. And you shouldn't want to. Right. So I do think coming from a place of empathy is going to be important. I sometimes get, I know myself, whether professionally or personally, I can be very like, okay, we see a problem now, we've got to tackle this. And sometimes my empathy just like leaves the building because I want to just solve the problem.

But, and also acknowledging to him that he kind of does have a more uphill battle than if he and his ex-wife are more aligned. Like he's got to be confident in and how what and what values he wants to instill in his child. And then hopefully lead by example and bring his ex wife in on it because right now they're just they're very adversarial. It's gotten way better. But right now there's no team. I don't even think he would be able to say we an hour. I think it would just make him cringe.

And I want- Yeah, it's not about him. I know, exactly. Exactly, but I do think if he just starts now while the kid is still relatively, I mean, I think there's still hope, I hope. Yeah. There's still time.

There's hope, but the damage You know, there's still time. There's hope, but like, you know, the damage has been done, so to speak. Like, I got my dogs here. Like, we got Jeff, he's three years old. Steve's like one and a half or whatever. And Jeff's a really great dog. So we didn't really do any formal training, right? We crate trained him, and other than that,

like, he wasn't the best walker, but it was like fine. And then we got Steve, and Steve's kind of a fuck, you know? And so we're like, we gotta get this dog trained. But we took Steve in to get trained early, and he took to it really well, and now he listens better than Jeff, because then we sent Jeff to the training,

and he was like, he picked up on some new things, but they were like, yeah, he's kind of old. But can't teach an old dog new tricks, so to speak. And so it's just, as these kids get older and get set in their ways, it becomes harder. They really are gonna have to agree, or at least your husband's gonna have to be determined. And even if that means, you know,

he feels like he's not the favorite parent for a period of time, you know, his kid is only gonna be eight for a year and then only gonna be nine for a year and then only gonna be 10 for a year, but this kid's gonna be an adult for hopefully a very long time. And he really has to focus about

what is my relationship gonna be like with my son when he becomes a young man and a man? And I promise he's gonna respect his parent that taught him things. At some point, if he's really, he doesn't have to be a dick, he doesn't have to be mean, he doesn't have to go out of his way to be like,

well, I'm gonna be the disciplinary parent. He can still lead with love, but he can stick to his boundaries, really. It is about a setting about, it's just like right now, these parents are maybe setting a boundary, and then completely ignoring that boundary as soon as their kid, you know, resists that boundary. Yeah. Maybe sometimes they're not even

setting boundaries. That's exactly right. Yeah. Oh, I think you said something the other day. I don't remember in what context, but you said something about respect versus being liked. And I think with my boyfriend, it's like, okay, it's not only thinking about how you want your son to be as a as an adult, but how do you want your son to see you when he's that age? Do you want him to just be like, Yeah, my dad was fine. I really liked him. Or do you want it to be like, I really respected my dad, he really pushed me to learn how to ride that bike when I refuse, you know, or, you know, I just I think if he comes at it from that way too, it's so much better to be respected than liked.

It'd be great if it was both, but right now there's only one. Yeah, he likes his dad a lot because his dad lets him get away with everything. The problem is, it's like, right now it sounds like your boyfriend is more like, is it really that big of a deal now? And the argument is, it's not really about now.

Now your kid's just annoying, whatever. But he's on a path of really having a lot of, your kid's gonna struggle in life if these behaviors don't change. I mean, that's kinda how you have to describe it. Because right now, he's nine years old, which is not that young. And he is, I mean, I remember nine, that's third grade.

Four, 10 to 10 is fourth grade. Like I have lots of memories of that age. You know, and there were the pretty good kids and there were the absolute fuck-ups. You know, and some of the kids, I was in school from third grade to high school and the fuck-ups in third grade were the fuck-ups in high grade to high school, and the fuckups in third grade were the fuckups in high school.

The difference between the fuckups in third grade and the fuckups in high school, the fuckups in third grade were just like, kinda like, got in trouble. And the fuckups in high school were like, got into drugs and bad friends and like, just, you know. Yep, yep, totally. And it's, you know, what's gonna happen

when they're so afraid to say no, that they're the kid who has the untapped iPhone at 12, 13 years old, and now their kid is fully weapon, you know, armed to the teeth with just like, you know, it's a scary world out there. Yeah, it is. And you have to, like, it's not your job to be your kid's friend, it's your job to protect your child

and sometimes protect your child and sometimes protecting your child is enforcing a lot of boundaries and getting them comfortable with respecting people's boundaries, especially as a young man. That's really important. So he needs to see that path.

And yeah, I would not back down because if you can't get through to your boyfriend now, it's pretty telling about how he could be as a husband and as a partner. And you have to be able to gently communicate that and hopefully in couples therapy, and great sign that he's so far taking it fairly well, but there needs to be more of that.

Because it just, yeah. Your instincts are right that this is not something to ignore. Yeah, all right, well thank you so much. All right, well keep me posted. I'd love to see where this goes, but yeah, I'm sure it's a very relatable story, both for parents who aren't divorced, for people dating parents and things like that.

It's a tough world out there for parents. Well, the more I'm talking about it too, the more I realize that it is quite common. I mean, I never did I think like, oh, I'm talking about it too, the more I realized that it is quite common. I mean, I never did I think like, oh, I'm the only person going through this in the world. But the more I think about it, I was like, oh, yeah, oh, yeah, I went through that when my husband and I got married or when we started dating and he brought his kid into the picture. It just, it happens. It's, it's very common that that the theme of, you know, divorced parents want to be the best friend and not enforce boundaries

and it creates big issues in their relationships. So it feels validating. He's gotta get over whatever resentment he may or may not have, both of them with each other. It's not about, they can talk all the shit they want behind each other's backs, but when it comes to their child, they need to be a team. They have to. They just, it's not about them.

So, keep fighting the good fight. I'd love, you know, keep me posted. Thanks. All right, thank you guys so much. All right, take care. All right, bye. All right, bye bye. Summer's just around the corner

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Okay. Why is it a major concern of yours? Well, because being in my husband's family for the past nine years of our lives, I've seen him treat his family so disrespectful. Your brother-in-law, not your husband, right? Yes. No, no, no, no, no, my brother-in-law. They wanted him to pay rent, he hasn't paid rent. He wrecked his car a couple months ago, he hasn't saved up for that. And now that me and my husband have a 15 month old daughter, and they watch her during the day, we just are concerned that with her growing up, I don't want her to think that's normal behavior. What specifically are you worried about? The fact that he still lives there, but he's being disrespectful to my in-laws. They fight

constantly. I don't really want my daughter to see that. Sure. And then he's also dating a girl who doesn't speak the same language as him and she's about to be deported back. At all? No, not at all. So I don't know how that relationship works,

to be honest, because they text through the Google translation. Fascinating. And that's how, yes. They've been dating for like a year and a half. A year and a half? Like not even a fling. It's like, wow.

No, it's a year, yes. Do they really just think each other's are like super hot? You know, or like what, like what's, how do they find? I don't know. Cause like they'll, when I've seen the interactions with them, they just like look at each other and they giggle, like, and they just like text each other. And I'm like, what?

I don't understand. Wow. Yeah. Anyway, so she's about to get deported? Because of the new administration. Sure. She's from Venezuela. And so she's here on a sponsorship

and basically she has to go back. And so now his parents are thinking, oh, let's just kind of put him on her to deal with. They can get married. And so then now they can live on their own, but he has no money. So how did this happen? It sounds like your husband is not the same person.

He's the opposite. I don't know what happened because they were both raised the same way, but my husband, he has adopted. And so I think they were both very privileged growing up. They didn't have to like- Your husband's adopted, but your brother-in-law wasn't? He's, no, yeah.

And so I think my husband realized growing up, like he could have had a very different life. And so he's always tried to work hard and try to thank his adoptive parents for giving him that life. And then his brother just never learned that. I'm willing to bet they weren't raised the same way in probably not even obvious ways, you know,

and it's not even really that important. Like I don't think you need to be like, hey, you know, I talked to a podcaster and he said he doesn't, you know, like, I'm just saying like there's clearly a huge difference in how these young men grew up. Obviously with your husband being adopted makes a lot of sense what you're saying

in terms of how he perceived it, you know, and his decision to take advantage of this opportunity, literally, that he was blessed with. And I don't mean like they were loved differently, and I don't know, it's clearly, your husband sounds like he got the benefit of better parenting, almost. But they probably weren't raised the same.

Just like maybe every child, regardless of adopted or not, in some ways might be raised differently, and without parents even necessarily realizing it. Overall, yeah, I'm sure they're, but they probably weren't. Not that that really matters and there's nothing really to unpack there, but they probably weren't.

Just because like, I mean, the fact that his parents are allowing this to happen, I mean, because they are, they are allowing this to happen. The fact that their big plan to get their son out of the house is to hope that he finds a wife is not a plan, because how do they know that he's not gonna want him and his wife to live in the basement?

Oh, I've told them that, we've made them aware, you know she's probably gonna move in with y'all, and then if she ends up pregnant, then y'all are gonna have to take care of their child. The rest of their life probably. His girlfriend is just literally fighting to be in this country. Any home is a blessing.

Certainly a nice home, even if it's not her home. Yeah, I mean, I don't blame her. I don't blame her, but I'm concerned for her because I don't want her to end up having to take care of him, because he's like a man child. I think you might hate my advice though, but my advice is like, it's kind of not your problem.

And I think you're, you know, and there's only so much you can do. I understand and empathize with your concern as it relates to your daughter, but I think there is ways, you know, like you all you can control is what you can control, right? You can control the fact that you are your daughter's mother and you are in a position to set boundaries,

sit her down, have conversations. How old's your daughter? She's 15 months old. Okay, so incredibly young, right? Like she's River's age, right? So right now, you spend, I'm guessing, you spend a lot of time fantasizing about her getting older, lessons you'll wanna teach her,

I'm sure you and your husband talk about what type of parents you wanna be and yada yada. She's so young right now, I totally get it. But we, as parents, we cannot raise bubble kids. We can only do so much to protect our children. We cannot stop our children from facing the world because the world is just not going to care about them the way we care about our children as parents. It's our job, at least my belief,

to prepare our children for all the things that life is gonna come at them. While this isn't an ideal situation, I wouldn't want it for myself, just no more than you't want it for myself, just no more than you would want it for your situation and your daughter, but it's still an opportunity. It is an opportunity to like, you know, as your child gets older and maybe, you know, one, you can just say, you can set boundaries being like, if there really is an uncomfortable

environment, you can simply say to grandma and grandpa, like, I am just not comfortable with our daughter being there alone with him. I would love for you guys to babysit at our house and he's not allowed to be there. You know, it might come down to saying something like that. As your daughter gets older, you can sit her down and just say, yeah, that's uncle blah blah blah is we don't approve of that behavior.

And if he doesn't like that his niece is being taught, that's a him problem. But like, you know what I'm saying? Like you can, as long as you and your husband And if he doesn't like that his niece is being taught, that's a him problem. But you know what I'm saying? As long as you and your husband are on the same page, as long as you guys are aligned, again, you can only control so much about life showing up at your child's doorstep and saying,

hey, I'm a problem, and how are you gonna deal with this problem? As children, they have you and your parents to most of the time protect them from these problems, help them deal with the problems as your child gets older. You're gonna help teach your kid how to solve problems on their own, hopefully. These will be opportunities.

So in a way, yeah, it's not ideal, but honestly, what it kinda is, is a still, yeah, it's not ideal, but honestly, what it kind of is, is a still controlled environment, you know, an obstacle is presenting to your daughter and you and you have an opportunity to sit your daughter down at times to teach her various lessons based off of what we're seeing, you know, like you might take a kid, you might take your daughter to a playground

and she's gonna interact with children who are not being parented the way you parent your child. And a child might do or say something around your child where you're like, I don't, I didn't want my child to see or do that. My parents always tell me the story about how I learned about birds and the bees, right? And it was my childhood friend, Brian,

who one day I loved his parents, but like, and my mom was friends with his mom, but he was allowed to watch kind of rated R movies as a six year old, and I definitely wasn't, not sneak over, but he knew about sex before I did, and he told me, and my parents were pretty pissed, and I came home kind of red in the face, and I honestly don't even remember,

but my parents remember, and that's gonna happen. You cannot, you're gonna send your kid off to school and they're gonna come home and they're gonna like experience shit. You wish they wouldn't. I was, I had a sailor's mouth in second grade and my parents never would have guessed. I have this vivid memory of taking a walk around the block

and being like, I swear a lot. I should probably stop swearing. As a second grader, as an eight year old, you cannot stop your child from experiencing life. You know, what you can do though, is use whatever life your child to experience to make sure you're paying attention, make sure you're asking questions and checking in,

make sure you're not just assuming everything's okay with your child because you taught him everything you know, but just like, you have to accept that the world is going to, whether you like it or not, introduce things to your child and it will be your and your husband's responsibility to like step in to say, well, that's not okay, or that's okay, and this is what this means.

And you know, it's really, you know, this is dangerous. You know, you gotta avoid this danger. You know, as Rivik gets older, you know, we got a teacher about the dangers of water, you gotta avoid this danger. As Rivet gets older, we gotta teach her about the dangers of water. Teach her how to swim. Dangerous things are gonna show up. And we have to teach our children how to be careful around dangerous things.

And I think that's where your focus should go. Because if your focus goes with, I gotta get this guy out of the house, you're stepping in there and then that could affect your relationship with your in-laws, he's their problem, he's not your problem. That's very true. Yeah, and so my daughter is adopted too.

And so I'm fully aware, like, if we have our own child someday or something, I don't wanna treat them differently. I don't wanna treat them differently. I don't wanna make them feel, I just don't wanna discipline them differently or anything like that. So this is definitely a lesson for me and my husband on how we wanna discipline our child

and how we wanna raise them. Yeah, I mean, at some point, when it comes to your brother-in-law, he just was not pushed or challenged. Yeah, there's no tough luck. If the difference between your husband and your brother-in-law is this pure luck that he had the mentality and the personality

to on his own see this opportunity that he wasn't gonna throw away, then that's, I mean, that's just really a literal blessing. It's not your problem, which is as tough as it is, because it is a problem that you anticipate having to deal with and that's inevitable. Deal with it as it relates to your daughter and just make sure that your daughter... Just worry about your daughter. worry about your daughter. You know, worry about how to protect your daughter while accepting that there's certain things in the world you can't control.

Okay, so if they do end up somehow married, we just support it, we just go to the wedding and just. I mean, yeah, it was a post. See if it works out. Yeah. Okay, well, yeah. My brother got his girlfriend, high school sweetheart, pregnant. Then they quickly had another child because they were just like, we got to make this work.

In the back of my mind, I was just like, I didn't, she seemed like a lovely person. They didn't seem compatible at all. I was definitely worried about my brother, like trying to do the right thing, but not doing the right thing. But like, what was I supposed to, you know, it's his life. Yeah. And they ended up getting divorced and now it's his life. Yeah, that's true. And you know, they ended up getting divorced and now he's in it, you can only do so much.

Yeah, life would be a lot easier if we all listen to people's advice, but most of the time we have to learn on our own. And then, you know, hopefully we have people around us, not necessarily to say, I told you so, but to pick us up, to support us, to offer some tough love at times mixed in with some empathy.

And certainly that's what you'll be there for your children because like, yeah, you, you can not, we can not protect our children from ever being disappointed, hurt, sad, angry, put in uncomfortable situations. Like we can't, we have to teach them how to overcome things. You know, we can teach them early on to observe things and know the difference between right and wrong. I remember growing up and down the street, I actually, across the street from my childhood best friend

were his cousins. His cousins lived across the street from him. And his cousins were fucks. His oldest cousin was a drug addict. He was in high school and he would like, we always see him like, I remember being eight, nine, 10 years old and seeing this, to me, he looked like a man,

but he was probably like a high school kid. And I could tell there was something wrong with this kid. And my parents told me, you know, he's got a drug, you know, like it was an opportunity for me, my parents to teach me the dangers of drugs because I saw this young man, I saw, he fought with his father, they, you know, like I saw a lot, even. I saw a lot of conflict from this family that lived down the street from us,

across the street from my friend, who I was over there all the time. And even though my parents, I was still allowed to play with them. And he had good parents. And even though like, yeah, he got to do things that, but like I was still safe and I was okay. And I probably learned a lot of things from Brian

that maybe my parents wouldn't like, but like I still turned out okay. But my parents were always present, always checking in, always asking questions, always just like making, you know, it's just like, what'd you do today? And it's like just being curious parents and check, you know, again, really just checking in. So a lot of times the parents parents just assume their kids are fine

and I've taught them everything they know, they're gonna be fine and they don't check in and all of a sudden their kid gets into something and they're like, I never would have guessed, I never would have known, they're not checking in enough. So yeah, it's not really about stopping your kid from ever witnessing toxicity or witnessing arguments or just an uncomfortable environment,

that is an opportunity to sit your kid down and try to teach him things and learn about, hey, that's why we stay away from those things. That's your opportunity to teach a little bit of, I think fear is a powerful teaching tool sometimes. You know, like just, I was very afraid of going down the wrong path as a child and how my parents were able to teach me that, I'm not entirely sure, but I think a lot had to do with

when they saw examples of kids maybe going down the wrong path, they talked to me about what that looked like. I was old enough to see trauma. I was old enough, I'm telling you this story now and I remember, and I just remember this kid would always, it was like a lost adult. It looked like a sad situation. I was old enough, I mean, I'm telling you this story now and I remember, and I just remember this kid would always, it was like a lost adult. It looked like a sad situation.

I mean, I hope for the best for my brother-in-law. I really do, like, I want him to succeed. It's just, it's hard to see that and it's hard to see my in-laws because they're the sweetest people and they do so much for everyone and so it's really hard to see them still stuck in that situation.

I mean, if anyone's gonna like be in a position, it's your husband to offer some tough brotherly love. And if there's anyone who's in a position to just be like, bro, the fuck are you doing? It's him, it's definitely not you. It's definitely not him. No, no, no, I definitely don't wanna be, cause coming from an outsider, I don't know

how he was previous before I came into my husband's life. And I don't know how much better he became and what all his brother had to struggle with and stuff. And so, yeah, I'm definitely not the person to do it. But yeah, that's why I wanted your advice because I just didn't know like, okay, just yeah, it's their problem, not ours. Or does my husband need to have a sit down with him and tell him like, hey, you should really think about like getting married to this girl and also saving up to leave our parents' house.

Yeah, if your brother wants to have some conversations with him, like let him. But I think right now your guys' responsibility is each other and your daughter and your family. And that's really what you guys, your energy should be going there and don't waste your energy trying to parent this man. That is energy that you could be focusing on your daughter or energy you could be focusing on yourself or your relationship.

If there's one through line of this show is whether it's you calling in about your brother-in-law or someone calling in about a situationship or an ex-boyfriend is to be mindful of where you are focusing your energy because it's not unlimited. It's a tangible thing and we treat our thoughts and our energy as if it is unlimited. We're not thinking about the cost of focusing our attention and energy on something that really is outside of our control, that really is none of our business and that is energy. We could be learning a new language, you know, literally like if you know just as a joke but like obviously you're not

gonna do this but if instead of worrying about where your brother-in-law's living situation, and let's say, you know, it's like, yeah, my daughter's fine and my relationship's good, but I'm gonna take that energy and just learn Spanish. You could learn how to communicate with his girlfriend faster than he is if you just took that energy and learned, you know what I'm saying? Like, and you gotta think of your energy in that way

because it's not unlimited. And if you're using it in one bucket, you're wasting it in another. That's very true. Well, this was very helpful, because I was going back and forth, and my husband, we would have fights about it, and then, because he would be so done,

he was like, I'm just tired of talking about it. But then something would piss him off that his brother would do, and then he would talk about it again. So it was just like an endless cycle of like, okay, what do we do about this? So- My opinion, your job is to,

in addition to obviously being a parent for your daughter, is support your husband. It's his brother, it's his family. So I wouldn't add to the frustration. It's not your job to be his like gossip partner and you'd be like, yeah, doesn't it fucking suck? It's just your job is to support your brother's frustration with his family.

Your job is to support your husband's frustration with his family. Empathize with him. How, you know, again, it's supporting him. It's not egging him on or saying, yeah, we need to do something about this. It's more like, you know, yeah, how can I support you? Or like, maybe you should talk to your brother,

but like, we're gonna be okay. And like, how can we help maybe his parent? They are adults, you're in-laws. They're allowed to kick them out. If they wanna be nice people, you know, they're not helpless. So they're making a choice too, you know? And you have to accept their choice. And if he wants to like have a conversation with his parents, then you can support him in that.

But again, I would challenge your husband to just be grateful for what you guys have and allow his brother to live his life. And as long as he's not literally putting anyone in harm, then it's his life, it's his life. Yeah, that's true. Okay, I'll just let it go. All right. Okay, well'll just let it go.

Okay, well thank you so much for talking to me and I just love y'all show. Well, I appreciate it. And congratulations on having a beautiful daughter and adoption such a beautiful thing and credit to you guys for doing that and best of luck with your family. Thank you.

And just your daughter's just so beautiful. Oh, thank you so much. It's been real fun lately. All right, take care, nice to meet you. All right, you too. All right, bye bye. Bye. Well, you know how much we love our dogs,

Jeff and Steve, we love them, we'd do anything for them. They are a part of our family and now that we have our little baby River, we wanna make sure that our family and now that we have our little baby river, we want to make sure that our family stays together as long as possible. But listen, just like when you have kids, you want to make sure your family is safe, you want to make sure your pets are safe as well. And that's why today's episode is sponsored by the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program. When you have a pet,

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My name is Buffy. I'm 28 years old. And did my ex just wanna bring me chicken? Or does he love me and is he chickening out? Okay, well why is he your ex? You know, just give me the backstory of the relationship a little bit and the breakup. Yeah, so I've been single for about three years

within that time. You know, I'll go on the dating apps, I'll do about three months on it, go on dates, and then when I start feeling like it's affecting my self-esteem, I'll get off and take a break from it. So in that three years, this person, I met him off of an app.

He's from a different state, but he was moving here. So we got to FaceTime a couple, about like a month prior. So we kind of built more of that foundation. So when we did meet, it was very natural and the first date was so good. It was that like magnetic feeling. So I, you know, I knew I liked him right off the bat, but, and I think it was pretty neutral. So start from the first date, we both didn't see other people. We were hot and heavy, I guess, but we were very connected. And then, so that went on for about four months.

And then everything just, it felt almost perfect. We had really good communication. There was days where, you know, he was just a very good communicator with all of his feelings and what he was going through. He was trying to start a business out here. So I did have a fear that he was taking on too much all at once, like starting a relationship, trying to start a business, moving across the United States. That's a big thing. I did it.

So I knew that I wasn't ready to date when I first came out here. And so yeah, so eventually we weren't seeing each other. It was like two weeks and I hadn't seen him. It was a lot of like cancellations. So ultimately I just called him and at this point we're in a relationship. We had defined it and I called him and I said, all right, like I'm'm feeling it, like, just what's going on. Let's let's talk it because I feel, you know, I feel it and I would rather if it's going to like end, let's just like do that. And he was very off. He was very off and on. He wouldn't really say it. He just said that he he was going through some depression, which I wanted to really understand. So for the next couple of weeks,

he didn't break up with me, but he also was in this hole. And he was communicating that, you know, he was just going through a really hard time and really stressed, but he was very much leaning on. He was very depressed. And I guess I got to the point where I didn't know if, is this the moment where I step up as a partner

and I just, I'm there for him, which I was so willing to do. It's okay if he needed to do some isolation. I understood that, but I wasn't sure if it was, do I need to step up as a partner and just chill and, and, and. What was he asking from you? Nothing. He wasn't asking anything.

Yeah. So then in the back of my head, I was like, well, this is it, is this an out for him? Like, does he just, he wants out. And I understood that too. Like he took on too much and just didn't know how to communicate it. And eventually that's how I felt. So eventually it just, I mean, we played that kind of back and

forth game for a month, a month and a half. And, and eventually I just, I called it because it wasn't a relationship at that point. And I felt like, what, and what did you say when you called it? I said that I, I like really respected him and that I had really deep feelings for him. But ultimately I told him that I had really deep feelings for him. But ultimately I told him that I wasn't sure what he needed from me when he's

going through this and I, but I'm not getting my needs met at all. So I also wanted like a partner in that situation and only the only thing I was asking was the communication aspect of it. Where do we stand? Do you want me here? Like, do you want me to support you through this or not? And he and he couldn't give me that answer. So that's when I just ended. And so you ended it and then did you pretty much stop communicating? Yes. And I kind of think I know what you're going to say, but I did tell him like when I when things end, I do just end it.

So I mean, I've had exes before we're all literally, you know, I've dropped off a vehicle, took a picture, blocked and deleted the number same day. So what do you think I'm going to say? When you mean what do you think I'm going to say? Well, OK, I think I kind of was telling him that so that he would say, oh no. Sure, of course. Yeah, I wanted a reaction out of it.

I mean, listen, you did a very difficult thing ending a relationship with a person that you liked and cared about and saw a lot of potential in. And then what I'm sure felt like fairly overnight, his behavior changed. And then you tried to be empathetic and understanding. He didn't give you anything. Literally gave you nothing.

And so here you are guessing this, guessing that, and yeah, you decided to end a relationship. So like, yeah, I think you're being a little tough on yourself. Of course we say things kind of like hoping it'll rattle their cage, hoping they get through, you know, like hoping to be like, I, you know, like, hey, don't really wanna leave here, but like you're,

you're kind of forcing my hand. And of course you wanted a reaction. That's normal. Like, you know, it's, you're not supposed to be indifferent. You obviously cared, you know, so it's, it makes a lot of sense. Like the important thing, what I'm hearing from you is that you felt that there was a problem.

You weren't reactive. You tried to understand the problem. You asked him questions. You certainly tried to give him time and space. Again, he didn't give you anything. So you re-approached the situation and said, hey, I really care. I just, before you't give you anything. So you re-approach the situation and said, hey, I really care. I just, before you, I do anything.

I do want you to know I care. Like this is not me not caring, this is me not liking you, this is like, I care. So like, it sounds like you did a lot of good things here. Like I think the only thing you have left to do then is just maybe accept. Well, it kept going. What do you mean it kept going? Okay, we broke up.

Okay. About, I was in a little sad girl moment for about two months, but ultimately this wasn't a long relationship. I've gone through worse. I had feelings for him, it was really strong. I think I was falling in love with him, but I'm good at this, I'm not, no, I'm not good,

but I was ready to date again. Okay started dating again Uh went on a business trip. So at this point I had been on a few dates with this guy Like three or four nothing. I didn't have any like feeling I was just you know figuring it out if I like them or not and um, Ultimately, I didn't and that's over. But so he reached out. This was about two months later, I was on a business trip. He reached out to me and asked if he could see me

when I got back. I said, okay. So we met at the dog park and he, I could tell it was really hard for him to say this. So then he ultimately looked me right in the eye and he just said, I needed to meet with you. I really, I want to apologize the way I treated you and what I, and how I did it. And he said that he, you know, all people want and all he's wanted was to be accepted and like loved for who he is and for whether that's like the ups and downs. And,

and he felt that he was starting to feel that from me, I guess, because we were starting to get a lot more emotional. And he acknowledged that he didn't react well to it. And when he was saying this, he was crying. So it was very hard and I could feel the emotion from him. And I told him that I accept his apology and that I really appreciate that he

apologized to me. That meant a lot and I know that I know that was hard and I was okay from that moment like I was I felt okay wow like okay closure piece I've never had a guy do that to like acknowledge that after the fact and I just I loved that that. I didn't need it, but I really appreciated it. But then, you know, so we're, that conversation's over and we're walking through the dog park and he says a comment like, I hope our paths cross again. And which I don't know what that means.

Like I wish we would have just left it at that. Like don't, I don't want the little, you know, the little eggs in my brain of what... I don't want that. But what did you respond to, I hope, or paths cross again? I didn't. Cause he's kind of mumbled it.

So I kind of giggled. I giggled and was like, yeah. Cause I want him to just be direct. Like what is he, because is he asking for another chance? If he's asking for another chance, then approach that. Oh, okay. I don't know. I mean, that's why I say probably not.

I don't know for sure. If you want a direct man, then maybe regardless of what he wants, you have to see. What I want. Yeah, you have to understand what you want and then judge his actions, which, you know, not just judge judges, but like, he wasn't, you know, but like,

how long ago was that? So that was probably two months ago and he's reached out one other time. Oh, important. So after the dog park, I wrote him and I said that I apologize if I seemed cold. It was just emotional, but I wasn't, but I do really appreciate that you apologize. And I said, with that being said, I'm not looking to have a friendship with you. Like I don't want open lines of communication. Okay. Did you say what you did want from him?

Um, no, because he did write me after the dog park and he said his text was something like, I didn't get to say everything I wanted to, but I think that, but maybe that will be okay. Very elusive, like making me the one to guess what he means by that. So I just said, Okay, well then here's the question, right? Like, so, but is there more? He reached out to me one more time a month later. He randomly called me. I answered and he said, oh, oh, you answered. And I said, oh, my bad, should I hang up?

You can leave a voicemail. And I don't know if he had been drinking. He did sound a little, maybe he had a little tipsy. And he said, he was just kind of going on. He said he didn't want to be my friend. And then he said he needed to tell me something. He said he needed to talk to me. He needed to tell me something. So I was like, then do it. Like then just do it. Like, I was kind of getting tired of this game. And, and he said, okay, I'll come over. And I was about to make dinner,

my chicken didn't thaw out. So he said, I'll bring chicken. And I was like, okay, bring some chicken. So he drove here, he brought the chicken, and I'm like, we're sitting on the couch and nothing, no touching, no nothing. It wasn't anything like that. And the dogs are playing and he didn't say anything.

Like he talked to me, he talked to me about my family and my dad had, there was an issue with my dad and he was checking on him. But he didn't say anything and then he left and I was just standing around the house like, what the heck was that? I don't know. So and how long ago was that?

This was two weeks ago, three weeks ago. All right, well you have a choice. Listen, clearly this is an incomplete person. How old is this person by the way? 35. Okay, well how old are you again? 28. 28.

Almost 29, on my 29th, almost on my 30th year of life. Happy birthday. Clearly, I'm guessing, based on what you're telling me, you're wondering, right, if this is a man who is second guessing his decision about to break up, not giving him the answer, now he's just kind of quote unquote bread crumbing, kind of popping in and out, maybe part of it is motivated

by, you know, got drunk one night and text you, then you run over from chicken, but like, you're kind of expecting or hoping at least that he shows up with a piece of chicken and says, I wanna try this again, I miss you, I care about you, I don't wanna be your friend either, and if you're willing to give this another shot, I want another shot.

Yeah. I guess I wanna know. If not, I'm okay. I would rather, I don't want the random communication back and forth. I hear it, I hear it. And my question. I'll leave it.

And so we can sit here and brainstorm what we think his reaction is, and that's fun, and I'm happy to do that with you. But at the end of the day, the easiest way to find out is to just find out, rather than talk with me or your friends about what we think this guy might be doing, as this cuts the chase.

Now, I understand that you wish he would do that, right? He's not doing that. So then, one, you have to ask yourself, as much as I care about him, do I want him? Is this really who he is, and does this mean he's the type of man who really has a hard time taking charge? You're describing some weakness, right? And we all have weaknesses. We all can be weak people at time. We can be strong people at time. Depending on our emotional resiliency, depending on our mental health, some of us can be stronger more often than we're weaker and some of us are a little weaker more often than we're stronger depending on what we're going through or what's going on or our upbringing and all a combination of things, right?

And so do you think he's going through some moments of weakness and needs someone like you in his life to help him out and maybe he's seeing this, but has the potential to lead, to be strong, to get through whatever he's going through. And are you willing to take a chance at that? Are you willing to take a chance of saying what you want him to say and be totally wrong? People like him, these type of people

that you're describing, they can be very confusing because they don't even know what they want. He could want you one day and the next day not. I don't know what's going on with this business of his that he's been trying to start. I don't know what else is going on in his life. And again, I always say no one lies to us more than we lie to ourselves.

Is it like one day he might be feeling one thing and the next day he might be feeling another? And so you're potentially at risk of putting yourself through something, this emotional roller coaster again. And it only gets harder, right? Because you're like, listen, I only did this guy for a few months. I was sad. I was disappointed, but I've been through worse.

And I only did him for a few months. It wasn't the end of the world. Now it's been two months, you know, you've spent a clearly a lot of emotional energy, wondering, pining, you know, deliberating, second guessing about this man in this relationship you have. So in some ways you continue and have been in a relationship for the about six months now. Yeah, you know, I feel that because when I, I mean, I'm not saying every night, but I do. Enough.

It's in my brain. It's in my brain, yeah. It's like, oh, do it. You know, it's like, do I, I don't know. So to that point, if you're asking me what I think you should do, acknowledging that regardless of whether you meant to or not or whether it was in your intention

is that you have been investing a lot of your emotional time and energy into this man in relationship, regardless of your relationship status with him. And you care, and so you are emotionally vested. So rather than continuing to wait for him to make the first move, you just are gonna have to make a decision,

a clear decision. And it's one of two decisions, to just accept that this man, despite his charm and your affection for him, is incapable of really stepping up and asking for you back. And if he's not ready to do that, then maybe he's just really not ready, period. And that you are just gonna simply draw that line

and enforce that boundary, and whether he wants to call you late at night or not, or step over, you're just not gonna allow that to happen because as you said a couple months ago, you're not interested in being his friend. And you decided that despite his confusion, he's not your guy. Or you can put yourself out there, acknowledge that you've spent a lot of emotional energy

on this man, and you don't wanna continue to spend a lot more emotional energy, at least being confused. And if you're gonna spend any emotional energy on this man, you're at least gonna do it while in a relationship as imperfect as it might be. And so then you should just put it out there and say, to be honest, I kinda wish you would've said this,

but I'm gonna say this, and I don't even know how you're gonna respond, but like, I wanna try this again. I just don't think you're ready. Remember, you did break up with him, and yeah, he should be strong enough and brave enough to put himself out there, but he's not, and so you might have to put yourself out there

and not knowing what the answer will be, and also knowing that, regardless of what his answer is, his answer could change in a month. So while you were saying that, I kind of just had like a, like what if, I've never thought about this before until just now, but so what if I put myself out there, which I think I'm okay doing. And I think that's why he has kind of this,

a little bit of a hold is in the last three years of being single, he is the one person I think I was just very vulnerable with. So I'm okay with putting myself out there and just, however that looks like, saying, I don't know, maybe that's where you come in and tell me what to say. But I'm okay with that. But then what if, let's say perfect world, he's like, yeah, okay, and we start this and then I change my mind and maybe after I get it Back maybe after I'm in it and then I realized wait I do want someone to be able to communicate the hard things He has shown that he's he can be a good communicator

But not when it's hard not when it's tough and that's when it's important We're all like, you know, it's it's easy to shoot a basket without someone playing defense you know sort of sweet. Yeah. So then what if I change my mind? Like after you change your mind? I mean I guess. These are you know I know it doesn't feel like this sometimes in 2025 because like you know it's like in some people's minds if you tell someone hey I like you or God forbid you say I think I'm falling in love with you,

or God forbid you say, I love you, and then like two months later be like, I'm sorry, but I don't feel the same way. A lot of people will immediately, you're a gaslighting narcissist, who loved bomb your way into relationship and yada, yada, yada. But like you are allowed to change your mind,

and he's allowed to change his mind, and that's dating, and it's hard. And he is a man, he is an adult. He is, you know, also question is, what has he done to your knowledge of dealing with his depression? Good question. So when at the time that we were meeting,

I had actually just started anxiety medication. I had never been on it, but I have actually a heart condition that can cause like panic attacks. So anyway, I was having a lot of panic attacks. I got an anxiety medication and he had very strong thoughts of the medication. He had tried it previously and it didn't work out for him.

So he had some thoughts of me starting medication. But I, of course I was like, well, this is something I would like to try that I'm gonna do. And then he, we talked about therapy because I was also getting into therapy and he made comments on, you know, like, that doesn't help him either. So that is something that I'm concerned about.

Well, if therapy isn't it. Did you have follow up questions to like, what does he mean by it doesn't help him out and what is his experience or relationship with therapy? Not with therapy, but I did ask the medication. I know he, you know, he said he felt like a zombie. He said he felt, he didn't feel like himself. Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty medication adverse, you know,

like I'm not here to question, you know, but I definitely respect people who like are resistant to like, you know, and if it helps you out, that's amazing. But if you're not gonna take medication to help whatever problem you have, you should probably look into other forms of help. And I always find it funny, when people say therapy doesn't help them,

I mean, if you're resistant to getting help, it's not gonna be helpful. But trying therapy once for a couple sessions and deciding it didn't help you is you just quitting. Yeah. And I don't think he went for very long. His view on it was just like a money scheme type of view. And, but then it's also.

Well, that's fine, but who does he talk to? We all need somebody. He doesn't. And I've asked that. I was like, you do need someone, whether it's family or friends, and he doesn't. So he keeps it all inside and then he just isolates. And that's what he was doing in this time

that I was trying to be there for him and not. I dropped off a care package and told him, you don't have to see me, I'm just dropping at the door. I didn't wanna add stress, but like. Yeah, you guys are just too, I mean, he's worse than you, but you're both, like just, you gotta, someone's gotta be direct here.

Yeah, okay, so do I text him? If I wanna put myself out, what do I say? I would just, what would you wanna say? I don't know. There's no perfect way of saying it. Look, what do I say? I would just, what would you want to say? I don't know. There's no perfect way of saying it. Look, what do you want? If what is putting yourself out there with him mean to you? I wouldn't want to jump just into a relationship.

Yeah, I would just want to go on dates and to see if maybe some of the things that I did see in him during that time, if they've been addressed, if we can communicate through it. And then if a relationship, if it is natural, if it comes back, then I would be very open to it. Regardless of what that approach actually looks like, why is that your approach?

Because I would be scared. Of? To just jump into a relationship. I would be scared to just jump into a relationship. I would be scared to jump. What is dating him, a man that you've already defined a relationship with, how is that different than saying I wanna try this again, I wanna take it slow, but I think I want you in my life and I wanna,

like, you know, I don't know what that means yet, but I want us to try again. What's the difference? I don't know. I guess when you put it that way, nothing, cause that is what I would do. I know if I start seeing him again, I know my feelings are gonna be there.

So I guess maybe it's like that it's like a, it's that vulnerability thing. I think if I label it as this, my heart would feel like less vulnerable. And if I label it as the other thing, then I would feel subject to her. I don't think in reality, I think you're convincing yourself of that. And at first it might be true. It might help initially convincing yourself of that, and at first it might be true, it might help initially take some pressure off that you've put on the situation. But if things don't work out, regardless if you define the relationship

and give it another shot, or not jump into things right away, but date. At the end of the day, if it doesn't work out, like six weeks later, I don't think you're gonna feel any differently about it. Whatever you feel is how you're going to feel because this will be another, it's going to feel like another failed attempt at a relationship with a person you cared about where you realized he's not your person and that's sad and that's going to suck and it's going to feel normal to question whether you wasted more time.

But like you just have to, if you want to listen, there's a lot of risks we potentially take as adults and most of our risks or a lot of our risks are in relationships, you know, because to be in a relationship you have to be vulnerable. You have to open up. It takes time. It takes work. There are no guarantees. Feelings change. It's really volatile, you know, and it takes work, there are no guarantees, feelings change.

It's really volatile, really, you know? And it can be very hurtful when it ends. But if we're not willing to take that risk, then we're never gonna find what we want, right? So you just have to accept the risk, and then if it doesn't work out, you deal with it then. You don't worry about what could happen or how you're gonna feel if it doesn't work out.

You're just like, you just deal, you know? But until then, all you can do is be as honest with yourself as possible about what you want, decide whether it's worth the risk, because it's a risk. It is a risk. It's always a risk. And in your case, I think the most honest way

to look at this risk is, do I want to pursue a relationship with a man who I'm already investing a lot of emotional energy regardless and most of the time he's just not even there, literally, except in my head. So I might as well just try and see this through because he has shown some progress that apology was really nice and mature and it was, it probably was a lot for him.

And that's a good sign. That's a green flag, you know, but the fact that he's resistant to therapy and he, you know, is resistant to medication that might help him and I understand why, but either way, he's already shown you that when he gets anxious and has a problem that he checks out, right? And so you have to be careful not to convince yourself that you're protecting yourself

when you're actually protecting him and trying to avoid him being in stressful situations because he's shown the inability to handle them. That is true. So yeah, I think you just have to decide. I mean, I think you're gonna have a hard time letting him go mentally right now without trying. So you might as well just fucking shoot your shot.

And that's how I feel. I want to date. I feel okay to date. I really do. I feel like, personally me, I mean, I got off the medication, but I got a trainer. I've been like working out. And I feel like improv. So what if've been like working out and I'm good.

Hey listen, I just show you calm up. Hey, I want to see you. That's what you guys this thing I would like to see you meet in the park, whatever kind of your thing and just say I'm just gonna say it. I'm just gonna be show him what actions you want. Ronnie Wu was a guest a long time ago. He's a chef, used to be a therapist. And he said something that really stuck with me, you know, and talked about like, be the action that you want your partner to demonstrate. So it's just like, you know, his basic example is like, if you want someone to text you back right away, don't wait three days to reply to them because you're worried about seeming too eager, but what you really want is for them to quickly reply.

So be the example of the behavior you want from your partner. So if you want directness, if you want assertiveness, be direct, be assertive. You are following his lead of being a little cryptic, hesitant, unsure, but you're both just waiting for the other person to say something. And yeah, would it be ideal to have the man,

the relationship step up, take the lead, take charge?. And yeah, would it be ideal, you know, to have the man in the relationship step up, take the lead, take charge? Sure, yeah, it would. But if you're still like him, you still care about him, you still see his potential, and potential is very dangerous, like you might as well just be the action that you want to have a relationship with him and see if he follows your lead.

So you go to ask him to park and you just say, I wanna give this another shot. I really, I care about you. I honestly, I'm not sure if you want it or not to. I've honestly thought there are a couple of times you might say what I'm saying to you now, but I just wanted to say it. I don't know exactly how you feel.

I want us to try again. If you feel the same way as I do, I would want us to at least, cause I think we have a hard time communicating. I do, I think we're not, I think we have a hard time. I would love us to like, maybe like consider like couples therapy, even if just to like help us early, in the early stages of dating,

help us communicate more effectively. I know you are resistant to it, but like, it's important to me, and is that something you'd willing to do with me? And if he's resistant to it, then you kind of have your answer. And if he's open to it, then like, there's a answer. And if he's open to it, then like there's a shot. Okay.

So text him and ask him to the park and say this in person. But be direct. Don't beat around the bush. This should take you less than a 60 seconds to get out. Okay. You should practice saying it before you say it. And it's not like, well, I was thinking this, but you don't couch everything. You don't water it down by like, you know, if you're interested and if you're, you know, it's like, no well, I was thinking this. You don't couch everything. You don't water it down by like,

if you're interested and if you're, it's like, no, this is what I want. I'm hoping you feel the same. This is what I'm going to need from you to do this. If you feel the same way, there's one extra hook that is we need to do this. Are you down, yes or no? Okay, I think I can do that

because I want the clarity. If we're gonna try it, then okay, let's try. But if not, then I don't want the conversations back and forth. I don't want a friendship. So I do want the clarity. And if you don't want that, I totally understand. But respectfully, I do appreciate the apology.

And I know we've sent some notes back and forth. But if you don't wanna do this, then I really need to be done with this because I care too much about this. Can you just please respect that and not reach out? Because I'm not gonna be reaching out to you. So before he called me, we were exchanging text messages. He reached out to me.

My dad was in the ICU, so I just told him about that. And in that moment, he had asked, well, let's get you out of the house, go to the dog park. Initially, I said yes, but I actually, the day later, I did change my mind. I didn't wanna see him. I don't want to keep seeing him without a direction. So I did tell him, hey, thanks for being there,

but I actually don't wanna go to the dog park. My feelings for you are still present. So I was like directing that way. This was recent, this was before the phone call. And I said, my feelings are present, and I don't think it would be healthy for me to see you. What do you say? He never responded until when he called me

and then brought chicken and didn't say anything. I mean, I don't know what this guy's going to say, but it's really important that you're direct and finite. You say what you say and there's, you're not, you don't leave open anything for interpretation and if you don't get the answer you want, you say goodbye and you, and you're very nicely, very directly just ask him to respect that boundary and then be done. Because what's kept you invested is the lack of clarity, the questions, the crypticness, the hope.

All he does is introduce questions for you to ponder. So you're there to stop asking questions, you're there to show up and make a statement and present an opportunity to him, give him an opportunity in that moment to say yes or no. And if he's not capable of saying yes, that means no. Yeah. You know, maybe I don't know or all knows.

We'll see, I have to think about it. I mean, if he's like, I gotta think about it, just like, well, if you haven't been thinking about it, then, yeah. Exactly, then that's okay. But like, yeah, I have my answer if you need to think about it. But you really have to be, I'll never forget,

it was like my first girlfriend, I think we were 19 or time, we went through many breakups, but we were in one of our breakups and she was probably just dating other guys, not telling me or whatever. But situationships weren't a thing back then, but I guess that's what we were doing. And she was just like, she had the power, right?

She wanted to break up because she wanted some freedom. I wanted to be with her. So she had all the power, but we were still talking. So it was like, I don't know, I'm not ready to be in a relationship yet. Maybe someday, I don't know. And she was just kind of being the fuck boy, right? And I remember very well, I was on my parents' driveway

and I just called her up and I'm like, this is bullshit. You know, like, you're playing me. You know, I'm just kind of done. And when you know it, she literally showed up at my parents' house five minutes later, drove, you know, and it was like, you know. And I wasn't mature enough or old enough at the time to realize it, but like, yeah, all it took was me

and put my fucking foot down. All it took is for me to just show a little bit of fucking gumption, a little bit of like, stop being the victim in this situation, stop letting her have all the power, stop, you know, letting her take control of the situation and just be, have the guts to say, I'm not gonna let you treat me this way.

Like, this is bullshit, you know? And immediately I took that power back, which is why she showed up at my parents' house and was like, no, let's get back together. You know? You know, so sometimes you gotta show a little guts. I got gut. I know, yeah.

And listen, yeah, again, you did the very hard thing early on, but, you know, he was able to. Yeah, just, I feel like it was like I was giving him, he diluted my water. Listen, part of it, listen, it's very clear. It's also challenging when someone you care about says, I'm depressed. You're not a doctor, I don't know.

Even if you were a therapist, sometimes people just are depressed and there's, I don't know, yeah, I guess you can take medication. I don't know, but, yeah, I guess you can take medication, there's, I don't know, but like, it's a very helpless feeling to care about someone who's going through depression, right? So I get it, like you kinda had almost no expectations

and then when this man shows up and says, I'm really sorry about how I treated you, it probably felt like, wow, wow, wow, I'm really impressed, like wow, you know? Cause you have like the lowest of expectations of someone who's like depressed, but, and he, cause you have like the lowest of expectations of someone who's like depressed, but, and he kind of got you with your low expectations of him.

But regardless of his depression, and I empathize with what he's going through, you deserve a certain level of care and treatment. And if he can't give it to you or doesn't want to, you need to walk away and you have the right to say that and not coddle him. Okay, so I'm gonna text him and I'm gonna say, I want to talk to you, meet me.

Do I give him like the day or do I? I'm sure, he's not like, hey, you have to meet me in 12 minutes or else. But like, yeah. Yeah, no. I wanna meet with you, let me know when you have time. Okay. And he should be pretty accommodating,

assuming that it's easy to schedule. You show up and then just tell him exactly what you want and be open to anything, you know? Yeah. But if you don't get a fairly quick, I would like that too, and yes, then you have your answer. And that's all I want. I just want the clarity.

Okay, well, just make sure that's what you're looking for. And if, again, anything other than a yes is a no. Okay. Maybe is a no. Yeah, I don't want a maybe. This has been going on since we officially broke up in November. And you can say, listen, I showed up today

because I've been sensing that I thought maybe you wanted to say this and this is something you want, so I'm here because I want it too, but if you aren't, Claire, then I guess I was wrong, and if you need to think about it, then I have my answer. And I guess maybe I just read that differently and that's okay, I'm not upset, but I just, and kind of in a way,

without leaning in too hard, again, show him the behavior that you probably wish as he had the guts to be, which is just fucking direct. Yeah. Okay. Okay, I can do that. All right, well, keep me posted.

Love to know how this goes. Yeah, I will. But I do wanna take a moment to say, so I went through something like really, I went through a really bad breakup three years ago, and I've been listening to you for so long and there was a moment that I was, I mean, I was just so, I was so down. This guy had lied for, had a whole different life that I didn't know about. So it was really hard and I was just

crying and I was listening to your podcast and I was just crying in the bathtub and you had said something and I don't I honestly don't remember what it was but you had said something and it was just that instant click in my in my head and it just it was and I really can't 100% describe it but it was a sense it was just such a sense of relief for me and I just do want to say you know thank you because I do think that what you're doing, yeah, sure, it's a podcast, and you guys talk about reality TV, but when you have those moments for people,

like those are, like you're affecting people's lives, and that helped me so much. Yeah, I just wanted to say thank you. Well, I appreciate you saying that. And this ASNIC is my favorite part of what I do Just cuz like the other stuff is it's fun And I hope people find enjoyment out of it And I hope it it I hope it gives them a little bit of

Lightness and an otherwise like heavy world, but like this stuff is is meaningful and I enjoy it. So thanks for saying All right. Take care. Thanks, Nick. All right, bye-bye. Thanks.