The Viall Files - E935 Ask Nick - Help! My Brother Is A H*e!

Episode Date: May 19, 2025

Our first caller’s brother is a h*e. Our second caller is debating divorcing her husband. And, our third caller is wondering if a guy is just a bad communicator or not into her.  “A marriage needs two people who want to figure it out and try" Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff every Monday starting October 21st! Available wherever you get your podcasts and YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896  https://open.spotify.com/show/4NWA8LBk15l2u5tNQqDcOO?si=c03a23d537f94735 Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: https://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice, send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line!  To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Wayfair - This summer, get outside with Wayfair. Head to https://wayfair.com right now. Headspace - Feel good... and mean it when you say it!! For a limited time, get Headspace FREE for 60 days. Go to https://headspace.com/VIALLFILES  Rocket Money - Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Download the Rocket Money app and enter our show name The Viall Files in the survey so they know we sent you! True Classic - True Classic delivers premium essentials built for real life. Grab yours at Target or Costco, or head to https://trueclassic.com/viall to get hooked up today. Timestamps: (00:00) - Intro (00:13) - Caller One (20:38) - Caller Two (01:06:45) - Caller Three Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @justinkaphillips @dereklanerussell

How's it going? It's good. How are you? Good. What's your name? My name is Ashley and I'm 34. How can I help Ashley? So my brother is a hoe.

Okay. Well, and why is that a problem? To give a little bit of backstory. Obviously my brother and I are five years apart. He's younger. We've gotten older. He's a little bit older. He's a little bit older.

He's a little bit older. He's a little bit older. He's a little bit older. He's a little bit older. He's a little bit older. He's a little bit older. So my brother is a hoe. Okay, well, and why is that a problem? To give a little bit of backstory, obviously, my brother and I are five years apart. He's younger, I'm guessing. He's older. He's older. He's older. Okay.

Yes, we've gone through parts of our relationship where we're really close, parts of our relationship where we're not close. And he currently lives overseas. He's lived overseas for the past five-ish years. To give a little bit of backstory, I found out I was pregnant in 2023. I have a 17 month old. Congratulations. Thank you. Congratulations on River. She's adorable. And so my sister-in-law actually

found out she was pregnant the month after. So we have babies that are a month apart. It's great. I love it. Your sister-in-law being your- My brother's wife. So he's cheating on her? Yes, that came out. So they were going through the IVF process and she actually got an STD.

So they had to clear all that up because they were going through IVF. My sister-in-law had some fertility issues, obviously. So she thought this was kind of like her only chance to have a kid. So she went through the IVF process Everything had come out that he was cheating on her And then when she was pregnant it had come out that he had been cheating on her for the entirety of their relationship

And So because he lives overseas, he's taken advantage of things that aren't legal in the United States that are legal where he lives like what so like I guess like massage parlors and stuff like that. And I think he was also meeting other women on the internet. So he was going to the local big city, going on dates. Meanwhile, my sister-in-law is at home pregnant. At home where? So they live overseas. Okay, so she at least lives with him. Yeah, well she doesn't anymore, but she did that. So when all of this came out,

she obviously moved back to the States, had the baby. My sister-in-law keeps a great relationship with my mom so they can see my niece grow up, but I have received, and my husband has also received multiple DMs from multiple women telling us that I need to control my brother, that my husband needs to control his brother-in-law and stop him from spreading his STDs. What are these STDs? I don't know. I haven't had that conversation with my brother. So because he lives overseas, it's difficult to communicate with him

because he's sleeping when I'm awake. So I kind of just needed some advice when it comes to, he's gone through waves of ghosting my parents and my mom simply just wants to talk to him like, how is your day? How was work? How's life? That's the end of that. Um, but he doesn't always respond. So I kind of just wanted some advice on how to

kind of keep to maintain that relationship. And then also I don't really have a relationship with him right now because I don't love obviously what he did. Um, and then I also think that it's just difficult because of the time difference. Is he in contact with his, I'm assuming they're divorced now? Yes. So they are not legally only for benefits. Once she gets a job, then she'll go through with all of that, but she hasn't been able to get a job because she's taking care of their daughter and then living with her parents. Okay. And she bet she does keep in contact with your brother? For the sake of their daughter, yes.

Your brother's just kind of a loser, huh? Yeah. And this is like never, this all had just come out within the past like two years. Like if you would have said my brother would have done this, he was a little bit of a late bloomer in like the dating world. So I don't like, if you would have told me this 10, 15 years ago, I would have been like, yeah, no, he doesn't have. My husband was like, really?

Like he has, we weren't aware of this game that he had. Well, how, I mean, have you followed up with any of these random messages from these women that? My husband did. And? So my husband had said that he followed up with, he got a LinkedIn DM to have us to try and control my brother, um, from spreading his STDs, which I don't know what they were.

And I think he followed up and I think it was just like, STDs plural. Maybe one, maybe two. I, I never had that conversation because that's not in the conversation I'd love to have with my brother, but he followed up and I think it was just like a girl that was confused. She was just confused. She thought that my brother had loved her, that they were together. How much, if at all, have you like addressed your brother about his behavior? I have not. My parents have. And my parents have kind of made it seem like he knows that he did wrong, but then he just goes home and keeps doing it.

Because he did come to the States last summer and we had a big conversation and he did meet his daughter, but it was just in terms of meeting. Like he wasn't there for her birth? No, he was not. So he met his daughter and I think he tried to get off but he just couldn't. He couldn't. What's he doing for work?

He's in the military. Okay. I mean thank you for your service but like is he like an active combat? What do you mean he couldn't get off? I don't know. I guess you know. I mean I know the military is a different animal, but like, Yeah.

I feel like they let dads be there for the birth of their children usually. Yeah, I don't know why. He didn't really give me any explanation. Gotcha. And how involved is he really when it comes to being a dad? I don't think he's very involved. My mom actually had spoken with him recently

and she said that he was possibly trying to make an Easter basket for my niece, but I don't know to what extent. How direct do you think your parents are? They're not. I think, I mean, my mom feels a lot of guilt. She feels like it's kind of her fault because I mean, my parents, just because she raised him.

Fair enough, but you know, he is an adult, but I don't think continuing to coddle this guy is the answer. No no and I don't think that he was coddled by my parents at all like he definitely recognized his mistake but um I've had conversations with my sister-in-law where she because I mean they're still married she has access to his joint their joint bank account and she can kind of see his spending And I mean that she doesn't care obviously now who he's like with but she sees the charges on his bank statements He's just she can kind of track where he goes He's just he needs is Jerked off by yeah, this is Jesus

Well, I mean, I don't know how much You know, you said that's not the type of conversation I want to have with my brother Jesus. Well, I mean, I don't know how much, you know, you said that's not the type of conversation I wanna have with my brother. Well, maybe that's the type of conversation he needs to hear. He probably doesn't wanna have that conversation with his sister anymore

that you wanna have it with your brother. But like, you have the advantage of not being the one who should be embarrassed by their behavior, you know? So, I mean, if you're actually willing to do something, you know, you could reach out to- Yeah, my husband and I were thinking about going, because he goes to like the nearest big city often. And my husband and I were thinking about traveling

and kind of like, I don't wanna say interventioning him, but kind of, but then, you know, logistically, like we don't know where he stays, we don't know what he's doing, like, you you know so it would just be hard to track him down. I mean you could start with a phone call. Yeah I don't know if he would want my brother and I to go over there. I mean he probably would and you know to see us but you know to confront him on this sort of thing at all.

Yeah I don't think he would give him the heads up, hey, we're coming over to confront you. Yeah. But I'm just saying, maybe before you guys fly overseas, maybe you just confront him with a phone call. I don't know, I mean. Yeah, and it just goes back to it's difficult because, I mean, he's asleep right now. And there's a very small window in the morning where I'm awake and he's asleep.

Well, I mean, you know. Yeah. It might be a mild inconvenience, but even if you have to wake up in the morning where I'm awake and he's asleep. Well, I mean, you know. Yeah. It might be a mild inconvenience, but even if you have to wake up in the middle of the night to make a phone call. Yeah. You know, it just depends on how much of a big deal this is to you.

Like. Yeah. Yeah, I, maybe he has this weird addiction. You know, I don't know. Like. Yeah, I also think that he's a very high functioning alcoholic, so that's definitely a problem that hasn't been addressed.

Yeah, I mean, and he's, you know, this is dangerous behavior, you know? If he really is going around with multiple STDs, be it like herpes, you know, chlamydia, I mean, chlamydia, gonorrhea, like, you know, those, these are curable. Yeah. But like- As far as I know, it's a curable one. As far as I know it's a curable one. As far as you know, okay. Yeah.

And hopefully he's addressed it, but like if he's still going around, I mean this is dangerous behavior, not only for himself, but obviously for other people who, but yeah, I think you guys need to start taking this seriously. I mean the only way to address it is head on.

You know? Yeah. You can't be afraid to have the uncomfortable conversation I think you guys need to start taking this seriously. I mean, the only way to address it is head on. You can't be afraid to have the uncomfortable conversation. It's definitely gonna be uncomfortable, but maybe it just starts with what are you doing? And I think, I mean, there have been times where I would get a DM, I would screenshot it to him, and I would be like, listen, this is not, I don't wanna get involved. Obviously, through social media,

you can tell that he's my brother, I post things with both of us. But I pretty much said, hey, you need to stop this. This is not, and usually his response is, I'm not doing anything, nothing's going on. Meanwhile, I know that that's not true. Even if it's just like be a dad. Like I think you need to shame the fuck out of him for how much of a loser he is for the type of father

he's decided to be so far. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and you know, if he's, you know, maybe he needs help getting sober, but like I think you gotta start painting the picture of what you guys see, you know, like what happened to you? Like you're, you're an absent father. You were a terrible husband. You, you are destroying people's lives. I'm getting random messages from people. You're passing STDs. You're putting yourself at risk. And more importantly, like you're just, you're a terrible father, you're putting yourself at risk and more importantly like you're just

you're a terrible father. I feel like those the conversations that have been had he's kind of like I know I know I know I'll be better and then no are you guys are you guys being direct or is it or is it like hey you know like you know you should do this? Are you tiptoeing around it or are you just? I don't think my parents are. Like I said, I haven't had any conversations and obviously that's probably something that I need to do.

And if my husband and I talk to him, we won't tiptoe around anything, but I don't believe my parents have. I believe my parents, when they confronted him, they were very direct and they were like, clearly you know that this is wrong. Yeah, I mean, it's, like I couldn't imagine. My biggest advice for you is like,

if you really care about this, then do something about it. Obviously traveling there would be a huge step, but like right now, you say things like, well, I can't really find the time to call him. Like you could, you know what I'm saying? You could wake up in the middle of the night if it mattered. You could go out of your way to make sure you were available,

because he's not gonna obviously go out of his way. He's not gonna make it convenient for you. So he's gonna make it inconvenient for you. But like, if you wanna try to help him, you gotta go out of your way. And you can't, you know, things like I don't wanna get involved or it's not my problem.

Like, you know, like with certain things, I totally get it. So it's like, you know, you can involved or it's not my problem, with certain things I totally get it. So it's like you can't, you're not his parent, but if you are seeing a loved one or someone you care about, not only put themselves in danger or put other people in danger, and you're worried for their wellbeing and the other people around them,

at some point, yeah, you need to make it your business. If you really wanna help this person and you can't, you know, and listen, at some point, you might try, you might call him, you might even fly there and, you know, he might not listen, like at least, but what you don't want to happen, you know, is something unforgivable. I mean, it's like he's already done some kind of unforgivable things, but like it could get worse. You know, and you don't wanna think you didn't, you know, if it got worse, you don't wanna feel like you could have done something more. You might not be able to do anything.

I don't know, you know, it sounds like maybe your brother isn't really in bad shape. And you know, I don't know what he's experienced as someone who's been serving in the military. I don't know what trauma he's had to endure if any, you know, by serving in the military. You don't know what trauma he's had to endure, if any, by serving in the military. Obviously, you're not a professional therapist. It's like you can only do so much,

but you definitely haven't done everything you can, right? Like, you know, and time zone differences really shouldn't stop you from going out of your way to doing whatever you can. And it starts with just like having an honest conversation and just be like, hey, I mean, I never thought I'd have to reach out to doing whatever you can. And it starts with just like having an honest conversation and just be like, hey, I mean, I never thought I'd have to reach out to my brother and like tell him to like wrap it up or like,

make sure you're getting, that's bare minimum, but like, what are you doing? I mean, hey, you're a single man now if you wanna, but like at least be safe. But more importantly, this is about like be a father, like checking on your kid. Like you are, you're responsible for a life. Like, you know?

Like you're gonna look back and be really ashamed, you know, with yourself. And like, I don't know how to address, I don't know how to have an intervention when it comes to an alcoholic. You know, maybe Al-Anon is, I know, a support group of people who have family members who are alcoholics

and they probably have some useful tips how to address that. But I just, again, my biggest advice is do everything you can to help. And just, you're gonna regret if you're able to look back and think, I kinda just, I punted. I just, I acted like it was inconvenient. I made excuses for why I didn't reach out.

But, you know. Yeah. Because like definitely, like, cause right now you're like, well I can't really get a hold of him cause of different time zones. It's like you can, you know. Well, and also like the conversations I do try to have with him and I try to ask him things

that aren't necessarily like one-word responses But that's a lot of what I get like, you know, how's this going? How's that going? How's this going? And he's just like great Yeah, I mean, you know, cuz probably not going great. I don't know. He's probably obviously hiding it but asking him questions I don't you know, if again not an expert here, but I'm guessing you know, if he is an alcoholic There's a lot of denial there. There's a lot of issues there, right? So ask him questions about how they're doing. It's just, you need to speak to him and tell him exactly how you feel,

what your concerns are. Lead with love always, like, hey, I really love you. I'm worried about you. The brother I grew up with, the brother I admired, where did he go? What happened? I just never thought you would be an absent father. I just never thought that you would treat

your family this way. I'm shocked the way you take care of yourself. Like this is destroying lives, including your own. Like you need help. This is not the behavior of a healthy person. This is not okay. I love you, I will always be there for you, but this is not okay.

This is wrong. You need to stop. You need, like, you know what I'm saying? This is the shit you need to say to him, not like, how are you doing? Yeah, no, that definitely, I mean, that helps. Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, you're in a tough situation,

and I really empathize with you and your family, because you're right, you can only do so much, and you could say all those things and it might not get through to him, but like at least you will know you tried. Yeah. And this like obviously let him know you'll always be there for him,

but like you're not gonna condone or support or look the other way when it comes to his bad behavior. Yeah, we've made that very clear. So, ugh, I'm sorry, it sucks. Yeah, we'll figure it out. Yeah, I mean, every family has their issues, every family has their, but be there for your niece. Thankfully she has good grandparents,

thankfully she has you. Hopefully someday she'll have her father. The good news is his kid's still very young and I, hopefully he sees the error of his ways, but boy, he's, he's missing out on some magical moments to really share. My sister-in-law has definitely expressed some concern with the fact that she will probably grow up without a dad, but we can definitely have that conversation. Yeah.

Well, I'm wishing you and your family nothing but the best. But like, yeah, just do everything in your power and don't and make it your problem. Right. Okay. Yeah. All right. Well, take care. I love you.

Keep us posted. I love an update on how things, you know, play out. Yeah, I sure will. Thank you so much. All right. Take care. Okay. Bye. Bye. The days are longer.

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a few moments each day. Feel good and mean it when you say it for a limited time get Headspace free for 60 days go to headspace.com slash vile files. That's Headspace, H-E-A-D-S-P-A-C-E dot com slash vile files to unlike all the Headspace free for 60 days. That's Headspace dot com slash vile files. How's it going? It's good. How are you? Good. What's your name? Samantha. Hi Samantha. How can I help? I'm 35 and my question is should I get divorced or should me and my husband fake it till we make it? What would you be faking? We'd be faking happiness pretty much.

Okay. Are you both acknowledge your misery? To an extent, yes. We just acknowledged recently, a couple of weeks ago, we had a sit down talk and we came to the conclusion that we are just not compatible. We have love for each other. We have a family together, but our personalities are complete opposites and we're just not as compatible as we thought we were. I'm 35 and he's 44, so there is a nine year age gap.

Okay, all right. How long you guys been together? We've been together going on eight years. We've been married for five. A little bit of important history is he was married before for 17 years and he has four kids from that marriage. Do you two have any children?

We have one, he's four. When did you start noticing or feeling this incompatibility? When I had my first child. Okay, and what made you realize that? I think we went from like, he was, he went through his divorce, he had been married, he'd been a parent for a long time, you know, and then when we started dating, it was fun and exciting

and we got to go and travel. We would go to Vegas and then we decided to have a child of our own and that's my first child, you know, so I'm all in on being a mom for the first time and he's already done this four times. So we're just in different phases of life, if that makes sense. Sure. I mean, I don't know what it's like to have multiple children yet, but are you saying his excitement for being a father is no longer there or something? No, no, he's an excited dad, he plays, he's there.

He just has no problem with going out and having fun or doing a date night. Whereas I have more of like guilt with that. Does he wanna do a date night with you? Yes. Okay. And you just don't want to? It's not that I don't want to,

I just feel like I prioritize moments and being with my son more. Well, that makes sense. Yeah. You know, but there is balance, you know. Right. That's what we think we have to try to find is the happy balance, but we're just kind of stuck in it.

Who wants, who is, who is, is, are either of you leaning one direction more than the other? He leans towards fake it till we make it. Okay. Because he is able to do that. I am not. And I guess back to like this, the faking part,

like, you know, you mentioned like, you know, okay, I see the difference in like, he's already been a dad before, he's got no problem saying, hey babe, let's go on a date, the kid's gonna be fine. You're just like, you know, like, oh, like, I'm gonna be next to my son, you know? But other than that, where are some other points of incompatibility

or things that make you kind of like checked out of this marriage? He is still close friends with his ex-wife. Okay. They were married for 17 years and they have four kids together and they still have this like friendship that I am not okay with.

So that causes some issues. What part aren't you are okay with? Cause obviously they do have children together. So, you know, it's interesting. Like I was talking to someone yesterday and completely, you know, a different story. And, but I was just talking about her new boyfriend, her boyfriend is a dad, recently divorced

and he's not friends with his ex-wife. And I just kind of said, and she was looking for some advice in terms of how to integrate with this family or whatever and she has some concerns about just like her boyfriend's parenting style and his ex-wife because this kid's kind of running rampant. And I just kind of talked about how like,

the fact of the divorced, or they don't have to get along as exes, but like they still need to be a team when it comes to parenting this child. And it's the best way to be, you know? So what is the part other than like, yeah, what, why are you so uncomfortable? Where they cross that friendship boundary.

Yeah, where they cross that like, hey, we're a team co-parenting our four children. Yeah, so we've gone through all phases with this. It's been eight years of this trifecta. At first there was no communication at all. Like I did not exist to her. There was nothing. Then we

went through a phase of, we'll be cordial and just talk about kids, period. And then it became like, let's all be best friends. And that's where I'm trying to make the boundary because I feel like we should only be talking about kids things. So now she wants to be your friend. Absolutely. She wants to be me and my husband's best friends. She texts us if she has like a bad day, she's texting us. If she just wants someone to talk to, she comes to us. I feel like she should have someone else to lean on. Is she single?

Yes, she has not dated anyone since their divorce. No one? No one. Yeah, well, I can see why that's a- Right, it's a little weird. It's like she's just waiting. Well, I don't know about that part. I mean, you think she's just waiting

for your husband to get divorced so she can have a second chance? I think so, because like her hobbies now are exactly his hobbies. She's picked up everything that he likes to do. She's picked up on it. She could just be lonely. I mean, do you think he would give her another shot?

He says no. I've asked, I've flat out asked. He says he has zero attraction to her. It would never happen again. I believe that. I do too. I'd like as a man, I'm just saying, I don't know anything about your husband.

Nothing. Usually when we're done, we're done. And it sounds like, and as harsh as this might sound to his ex-wife, like the fact that he said he's not attracted to her anymore. Playa is playing a big role in his lack of interest in her. And usually those things don't just flip on ahead. So regardless of what she wants,

and again, I'm making a huge generalization here, but I also feel fairly confident in making it. I think you've maybe gotten in your head a little bit based off of her behavior, because it is generally kind of a weird dynamic, but I think you're pretty good there in terms of what he might do. I think so too, when I put like my rational cap on,

I do think that way. It's just in the moment when she's all up in our text messages all the time, or coming by the house to see the kids when she shouldn't. Well, not that she shouldn't, she should always be allowed to see her kids, but like, I just feel like it overstepped sometimes. Yeah. And then her taking over his friends group. I mean, there's just boundaries that have been over. So he had this group of

friends that he hangs out with where we live. And she now hangs out with them on their Friday nights. So I cut him off from being able to go because you're not going to go hang out with them on their Friday nights. So I cut him off from being able to go because you're not gonna go hang out with your ex-wife while I'm at home with the kids. Then I turn into the babysitter. Y'all's kids are at our house. I mean, listen, I don't know her, I don't know him. So it's easy, but I really don't think she's a threat to you

and I think she is lonely. Yeah, I think that too. It would make a lot of sense knowing nothing about your husband if he more or less just didn't care and her presence doesn't irritate him like it irritates you and it's just like he might, I don't know, also I'm sensing he left her for... Yes. Okay.

Yeah. So he probably has some empathy and guilt for basically upgrading, you know, and I'm sure that's what how it feels like for her. And so his reasoning for letting her in or letting her stick around or even infiltrate the friend group, I mean, it would make a lot of sense

if it's mostly around that. Or because he's married her to 17 years, he just knows she's not a threat. You know what I'm saying? Like he just. I think you're reading it very accurately because you're saying a lot of the things that he has said. It's just hard being on this side of it.

Sure, and which I totally get. And when it comes to that, everything else aside, because obviously there's a lot to unpack here, but when it comes to that, everything else aside, because obviously there's a lot to unpack here, but when it comes to that relationship, you might just have to decide to get over it. Yeah. And I, you know, it's just like one of those- Make it till I make it.

Yeah, in a way. I mean, if that is one big issue, I, you know, if that is a huge issue, then yeah, I would hate for you to leave a situation that, you know, if that is a huge issue, then yeah, I would hate for you to leave a situation that, you know, especially if you love your husband and you, you know, you want to maintain the family unit. I mean, maintain the family unit, like, as a new dad, you know, and have this unconditional love for my daughter.

I mean, obviously it's crazy for me to even speculate, you know, because I feel so blessed currently and with what Natalie and I have going on and how we feel about our relationship and the work we put in. I mean, obviously it's crazy for me to even speculate, you know, because I feel so blessed currently and with what Natalie and I have going on and how we feel about our relationship and the work we put in. But like, God forbid the unexpected happens in the future that we can't predict, you know, it's just like,

yeah, I see the motivation parents have for wanting to stick it out for the sake of the family. But like, I don't believe people who are truly miserable are doing anyone any favor by staying in a relationship That doesn't serve them for the sake of kids because you know just kids are smart enough to pick up on that that being said I do think there's a lot of people out there quitting way too early and marriages because like oh, you know a lifetime together is just it's not easy, you know, it's just like it's Yeah, it goes through these various phases

It's not easy, you know, it's just like, it's, it goes through these various phases. I've told him that too, that I think this phase of life that I'm in right now is 100% for my son. Like I'm just living every moment with him and it's just a phase, like. But are you willing to challenge yourself, because it's one thing to say, oh, I'm in this phase, and then kind of like fully immerse yourself in this phase,

regardless of what this phase brings. And I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong with your son, but listen, like I think you can always, I'm a big believer that too much of anything can be a bad thing, you know? I truly believe that. I think good things are weaponized and abused all the time. But like, yeah, I think it's good for parents

to leave their children and come back. Right now, obviously Natalie and I very have this bond with our daughter. Her bond with River is deeper and more connected than mine is. You just see the mother, child, there's a literal bond there. You can almost just see it.

I get it. And yeah, when we leave, we're lucky enough to have great help, and there's been three or four times where we've left River with her grandparents for a night, one night, once it was two. It's a hard finale. It's harder for an alley than it is for me. But I have to remind her, it's just like,

River needs to learn that we can leave and come back. She needs to, it's healthy to know that, like it's not always healthy just to always be there. It's not, it's like, so, it's healthy to miss people. It's healthy to, you know, like, eventually your son's gonna grow up, right? And eventually he's gonna want some distance. And it's, you're not doing anyone any favors by trying to,

I guess it's not, you know, to say, oh, well, yeah, he's gonna get older and distance himself. So I'm just, I need to get every moment in now. I don't know if it's the best outlook on that situation. I think it's all about balance. I think it's good to get out for a date night, even if you might miss a moment with your son. But what's your perspective on it if,

so I work full-time and I have a second job that I work sometimes. Suffer. So. Yeah, no, I get, yeah, that's definitely a different angle. The time that I have with them, to me, it's hard to give up.

Is the second jobs, like, you know, is that something that's just kind of necessary because you guys have to make ends meet or is it something you're doing for another reason? It's photography. I picked it up as a hobby that I enjoyed doing and then it's rolled into more of like, I started making money with it so we went with it.

Okay, well that's awesome, you know, but like that's, you know, now you're faced with some choices, you know. Right, yeah, and I've cut back a lot. Like I've decided this summer I'm not gonna do as much. Yeah, listen, if you wanna make your relationship work, you have to, you know, you have to water that flower, so to speak, too. You know, if you wanna make this career work,

it's like you're just gonna have to decide what's more important. The passion projects could always be there. You're really young. Again, obviously you're making money, so that helps. Once you start making money from something and you rely on it, it's like, oh my God. So yeah, you might have some tough choices.

I mean, what are some other things that are lack of compatibility with your husband? Just straight up personality differences. Like I watched your podcast with Ali on it and then I looked up our birth charts. Okay. And literally what him and I say about ourselves was in those birth charts. So like, I'm cut and dry, direct to the point.

I'm the caretaker. I'm not touchy feely. I'm more of an acts of service kind of person. And he's the complete opposite. So he is super sweet, loving, wants to touch you, feeling, wants us to hold hands all the time. Like he would be a koala bear attached to me at all times if I let him. Well, that's Natalie and I'm you, you know? Yeah. So, you know. It's hard.

Yeah, I guess, I don't know. I mean, maybe we're not as much as extreme as you and your husband, but like, I'm sure there are times Natalie would want to be more of a tree so she could be the koala bear, and I'm just like, I can't. But I'm always down to hold her hand. I love touching my wife and being affectionate.

I don't like to be smothered. And so we kind of work through that, but it's generally not a problem. But I'm getting the sense from you that you are looking for reasons to want to leave more than you're looking for reasons to stay. I think I'm looking for someone to balance it out for me almost,

because I think I could find a happy meeting place in the middle for us, whereas he wants more of a zero to a hundred. Like he wants a huge dramatic change to where he is getting all of his needs met to a T. Whereas I'm saying like we're a little bit too different. We have a little bit too much baggage at this point. Like we need to find a... Well, that was my other thing.

It's just like, all right, so I hear that he would like to have more date nights and quality time with you and you're resistant because of time with your son. Okay, so that's something that he would like you to compromise on that you've been a little resistant to. Sounds like, well, he wants you to compromise too. Are either of you willing to meet in the middle? You know, like, are both of you willing to, you know, the fake it till you make it,

it's you've addressed the fact that there's some incompatibility there. But the big question is, are you both willing to acknowledge that the other person has the right to have their needs met and that while what he wants is different than what you want, are you guys willing to compromise? Are you willing to do some things

that aren't your first choice? Like when it comes to my marriage, it's like we have a lot of things we're really compatible with, a lot, a ton, more than ever I had with a girlfriend. There's also things that like we're not compatible with. I have to be willing to do things that I don't wanna do sometimes, hell, every day.

You know, I have to do things I don't wanna do sometimes. As an active service person, it is a little easier, I think, for me, because it feels like an act of service to make a sacrifice or a compromise for the sake of the relationship, and then selflessly, I get a little value from that. But, you know. That's true.

To a certain extent. But you both have to feel like the other person is willing to compromise, because if one of you both have to feel like the other person is willing to compromise. Because if one of you is willing to compromise and the other person's like, well no, like I just like, I'm not really, you know, I need all of this and if you can't give me all of this

and I'm never gonna be satisfied, well the other person's like, okay well, I'm just asking for a little. Then that's not gonna work. Right. I think the times that I've tried to put in some effort and do something that he would enjoy, it's not like a hundred percent there.

Like if I put the little one down to sleep and then I get up at night and I wanna go watch a movie with him, if I'm not like snuggled tight close to him and I'm sitting like separate on the couch a little bit to have some space, but we're having some quality time. To me, I'm doing my 50%, but to him it's not like, you're not smothering me.

So it's not right. I'm guessing for him, it's less about you're not smothering me than like, I just, I wanna feel like you love me. Yeah. Yeah. I wanna feel like you need me. We all need to feel needed.

I've told him before that I don't and that was probably a mistake. Like I'm so independent. I'm totally fine. And I probably shouldn't have said that cause it comes off very harsh, but that's my directiveness. Yeah, I was gonna say a bad choice of words.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. 100%. That's definitely something you probably should just keep to yourself is like, hey, if I need to be alone, I can fucking do this. Yeah, right. I'll be fine.

Yeah, because I think, yeah, I think we all need to be needed. I think society accepts even maybe too much that women like to be needed, so much so that sometimes society decides that women need to be needed, which that's that sometimes society decides that women need to be needed, which that's always the case, because like yourself, not always the case.

But men need to be needed too, and they wanna be desired, and they wanna be appreciated. We all wanna feel like we add value to our partner's lives. I said this to someone yesterday, it's just like, there's a lot of relationships and marriages and heterosexual relationships where husbands are just kind of treated or seen eventually like useful idiots. You know?

I can see that, yeah. It's like, you know, cause all men, it's just like leave the cupboards open, do absent minded shit, you know, like just, I think every husband or man can just do, eventually just does a hundred things a day that you could roll your eyes at probably. Yeah.

And then it's just easy to be like, oh God. If you make your husband feel, and I say this to everyone, like he's just a useful idiot, he's gonna hate you. Eventually he's gonna hate you. He just is. Because no one wants to feel like a useful idiot. The reason that I've kind of created that, like I don't need him in me is because he prioritizes

himself and his happiness a lot, which I think some people should at a, to a certain extent, but like if the surf is good, he's going surfing no matter what. He makes time to go to a coffee shop and read. He makes time to go for a walk on the beach. Like he makes his time to do his things regardless. So his actions tell you that he doesn't need you

as much either. Yeah, in essence, yeah. But do you feel that way or does he saying that make you feel less guilty? I feel like, I don't know. I feel like he does those things selfishly. I don't think he's a selfish man, but I think he does those things selfishly. I don't think he's a selfish man, but I think he does those things

because he needs to do them regardless of what else is going on. And so in your world, you would like him to maybe check in on you a little bit more? Yeah, that's what I've told him in the past is like, okay, you know the surf is gonna be good today. You know you wanna go surfing. Can you do something productive before you know the surf is gonna be good today. You know you wanna go surfing. Can you do something productive

before you grab your surfboard and go? Take the trash out on your way out. Surfboard trash bag, you know, like go out together. Do you say it like that? Yeah. Yeah. You know the trick to calling customer services? No.

Asking for help. Yeah. It's not calling up and being like, I need you to do this. I call up customer service, I'm like, I really need your help. I'm in a really bad situation, I need your help. Everyone wants to feel like a hero.

Everyone wants to help someone. There's not a person in this planet who doesn't get a personal good feeling from feeling like they helped someone as opposed to do your job. A lot of people are just like, no, you fucking do that job. Be productive.

It's such a condescending, you're not talking to your husband, you're talking to a child. You're being his parent. So if it's like, it would be really helpful if you could take out the trash before you go surfing, you're gonna get a way better response than, can you be productive before you go have fun?

Yeah. Like it's just night and- It's the delivery for sure. It's night and day, it's night and day. And if every time you asked your husband to do something, it was more like, hey babe, could you do this for me? As opposed to, you just say it with a little irritation, a little frustration.

It's just, it's night and day. I can't stress that enough, especially for men. Men wanna be strong and feel strong, but we are often weak, we are. All the criticisms that women will say when they get together about men, a lot of them are true. We are soft, weak, emotional babies, sure. Yeah.

But we can do great things when we are supported. So it's like, do you wanna see the good in us or do you wanna see the bad in us? It's kinda like your choice. And then again, for you, it's like fake a team. It's just like, listen, if you don't love the guy, if you don't wanna be in a marriage, don't be in a marriage, right?

But I am sensing from you some things that are just like general relationship problems, normal marriage issues, and while you could leave your husband and find another guy, no problem, and you could find a guy who's night and day different than your husband. And if you find a guy who's night and day different

than your husband, I can promise you, the first six to 12 months of dating that guy, you're gonna appreciate all the differences in the best possible way. You're gonna be like, oh my God, my husband never did that, and that's so cool, he takes the garbage, and blah, blah, blah. And you're gonna be so obsessed with all the things

that you love about this new guy because your husband didn't do that, right? But then you'll get to know the new guy, you'll settle in, and then you'll just get used to the things you like, and then all the things you don't like, well, you'll start noticing slowly here and there, yada yada. And I'm just saying, you're gonna have another list of things you don't like about that guy, and you're gonna have points of incompatibility you don't like about that guy, and he's gonna do things or not do things.

And again, I'm not saying, I know very little about your relationship and I can only give you notes by what you're telling me. And your husband needs to do his part too. If a marriage is on the rocks, it's gonna require two people to at a minimum feel like they equally wanna save the marriage. If one person's like, I wanna save this marriage, If one person's like, I wanna save this marriage,

the other person's like, I don't know if I do. You should get divorced. It's like, because at a minimum, you still have to both want to make this work. And just- I just told him that at the minimum, I just need to feel prioritized. Have you guys talked about couples therapy?

Or you've done couples therapy? We've done it. It doesn't really go anywhere because it just kind of goes in the same circle every time. How many couples therapists have you worked with? Two. Okay. And they're both female.

And I told him if we do it again, I feel like he should find maybe a male therapist to work with us because I feel like the females just tend to side with me unintentionally, like I'm not trying to get them to pick a side, they should be neutral, but it often turns into he comes out to be the bad guy and I don't like that either.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, that should never happen. I think it's easy, you know, yeah. It shouldn't be a constant theme because I mean, you seem like a normal rational person. You don't even like that he feels that way and the fact that you've had two therapists and you can even be like, he ends up kind of being like the bad guy.

Maybe you need to try a third therapist. I don't know. And maybe it is a guy, I don't know. But like, I feel like a good couples therapist plays mediator well, where there might be a conversation where one person feels a little ganged up on, but that should even out. You should both feel, like a good couples therapist

makes sure that both people are feeling hurt, that there's always two sides to a coin, because if you're both not feeling heard, then, but if one person felt like they win, you both lose. That's not the point of couples therapy. It's not to play referee. It's just to try to be like, all right, you have a point of view, I have a point of view.

We do not get each other's point of view on our own because we're too caught up in being right or feeling heard that we're not willing to listen to the other person who also wants to feel heard. And so a good couples therapist is just making sure they're the ones keeping score, so to speak. Not in a winning, but just to make sure it's like, all right, well, no, we heard your point.

Just to call out people, because sometimes when we get triggered and we get in fights and get emotional, our childlike brains come out and we're just fighting and arguing and bickering and a good couple of therapists is just, whoo, you know, like, to me, that's it. But like, yeah, your husband has to want

to make you feel prioritized. And your husband, despite his guilt around his ex-wife or whatever the reason, he needs to respect some of your concerns. On the flip side, I do feel like what I'm hearing about the ex-wife is you've just decided it's weird and you've decided it's not normal and based off of that alone, you just, you don't like it.

Even though maybe deep down she's not really a threat. And listen, like I will say this, like you married a man who had four kids and an ex-wife. You know? It's a blended family. And it's not the same as like, you know, me and Natalie have our own beautiful, complicated families and we have our own beautiful, complicated relationship

because everyone does, but like yours is unique in itself where like, you know where we don't have ex-husbands and wives and kids from other families that we have to consider, and that's just something you married into. The alternative is, it's better than toxicity. I do feel like despite this irritating you, if it was still the first phase

where there was no communication, she fucking hated you, she wouldn't even say your name, it was just always tension, that would be a nightmare. So, you know, like this is better than that, you know? Yeah, I think I struggle with like, it's better than that, yeah, but like it still sucks. Yeah, but I think it could be a lot better if you let it be better.

I'm getting the sense that you've just decided it sucks because again, you're just like, I don't, I just don't like it. I just wish you would find someone like I wish you would find a companion. And I think that would make it a lot easier for everyone. Have you tried to let this woman in to your life? Yeah. Can you talk to her about like dating? Not, I don't think we're there. Like we've gone and done things just her and I

just to have like some bonding time outside of the family dynamic and it's fine. It just gets weird when it's a constant communication with her and my husband. Yeah. And the fact that she won't date anyone is weird. She hasn't even tried? She did, like in the beginning,

she went on one date with a guy and then that was it. Like literally we had, she's 44. And how, like is she her best version of herself right now or? I think so. I mean, in the beginning, no, obviously after going through a divorce, I think everyone is gonna struggle a bit.

Now, I think she's doing great mentally, physically. She works out every day. She's physically fit, mentally fit, I think. Do you know any eligible bachelors? I've thought of trying to set her up, but. Only just to see how she would respond. Like, I honestly, like, it's not really about, like, really trying to play match up, but. Only just to see how she would respond. Like I honestly like, it's not really about like really trying to play matchmaker with her.

I am curious how she would respond to you trying to set her up with a guy. Yeah. And I think that might be an easier approach rather than like sitting her down and have her a cup of coffee and having some sort of like dating intervention with her and being like, why haven't you dated anyone?

Almost being like, I know this really great guy who I honestly think you'd be a great match with and like, would you be interested? And just maybe see if that opens up the conversation about her points of view on dating. Yeah. You know, like I would just be curious. Yeah.

If I were you. Like even if I'm making it up at the time. Honestly, yes, literally. I mean, hopefully you have someone who you can set her up with because like you're like, oh, I didn't think you'd say yes, just kidding. But like that might be an in, you know? But I think right now you're just kind of fucking annoyed.

So you're not even going there. You just want her to stop. So it's like, if you're going to stay in this marriage, you just have to accept this situation and make the most of it and work with what you have rather than just stubbornly being like, this is stupid, I don't like it, it either needs to stop or I'm out.

Like, you know, you definitely can do that, but like, it is kind of what you signed up for. I know. I know. And again, like, I get why it's irritating, but if that's one of your biggest frustrations of your marriage, I feel, you know, I don't know. Well, I think we'll get through it.

It's just my mindset with it. Well, that's what I'm saying. I'm glad you can acknowledge that. You know, the combination of knowing you don't need any one type of thing or just being frustrated and you know, I just, I feel like there's a little stubbornness from you. Yeah, yeah, I can admit to that. And it also mixes with the not being prioritized.

Like I feel like if she said, hey, I need you to do this. And I simultaneously at the same time said, hey, I need you to do this. I personally truly believe my husband would jump for her. Have you communicated that to him? Yeah. And what does he say?

He says it's not true, but I mean, I've felt it before. Like if she needs something, he does it so quickly. And his reasoning is because of the kids, obviously. I bet there's just a shit ton of guilt and he probably doesn't realize it. And you're his wife in a way so he takes that for granted in a way where it's just like she needs my help and I abandoned her.

Yeah. Because he did. He left his wife for his selfish needs. He upgraded to someone he was more attracted to and that was a better fit for him and he left her and he abandoned his wife. How does he get rid of that guilt? Well, to a certain degree, he might not always totally, especially how old are his kids?

The oldest is 24, the youngest is 14. He might, yeah, listen, like he, I don't know, I guess he's not an individual therapy, but like he's, you know, his therapy is surfing is probably his therapy. Yeah, he does meditation. He's really into philosophy. Like he works on himself and his mind a lot.

That's great. But he also needs to want to work on his marriage too. For sure. Like that should be up there. Yeah. Yeah. It really comes down to, I think you guys need to decide. First of all, I think you gotta change your language

a little bit, you know? Okay, the delivery for sure. Yeah, you definitely need to. And just your guys' delivery with each other, like fake it to your make. I mean, if there's no love there, get divorced. But if this is more, like, and I say, because when you say fake it to your make it,

it's just, it sounds like you hate each other, you know, like, you know. We've definitely been there at times where we're just like at each other's. Well, sure. But if it's more like, listen, like I, you know, obviously I'm very frustrated at you lately. I still love you and I still, I want this to work. And I, I really, I want to do my part. That's the part that you guys at least have to align on is the desire to make this to work and I really I want to do my part. That's the part that you guys at least have to align on is the desire to make this marriage work and the willingness to do each other's parts and an acknowledgement that both of you have both kind of like selfishly stubbornly put your foot down waiting for the other person to go first and until the other person goes first you're not gonna

do your part. That's where you're at now. And you both at a minimum need to at least acknowledge that. And it's just like whether it's individual, couples therapy, more meditation, more surfing, and then you need to work, you probably just need to work on your delivery. And as far as the ex-wife,

maybe try to let it go for a period of time. And you could say to your husband, I've decided to like let it go for a period of time. And you could say to your husband, I've decided to like, let it go for these reasons, because I just feel like she doesn't have anyone, and I really, like, I think I've probably just made a little bit too big of a deal about it, and it's gotten into my head, and I really don't think I have anything to worry about with her,

so I've decided to let it go. At the same time, I still really need you to please try to just be aware of the fact that I am your wife and she is your ex-wife. I get it, you're gonna wanna be there for your ex-wife because you have kids together, but please try to be mindful that I wanna feel first. You both need to ask each other, what can I do to go out of my way

to make you feel validated or supported or prioritized that I'm not doing a good job today? And you maybe both just get to speak freely and the other person doesn't respond with a, oh, I don't know, but you both say, okay, I'm committed to doing that. And you both have to then hold yourself accountable. You know, it's just like, again, it comes down to,

you're not connected right now, you're at each other's throats, there's a lot of frustration, there's a lot of resentment, but do you guys both wanna make it work? Because at the end of the day, that's what it comes down to. It's just like, you know, this whole like, oh, well, I'm gonna love you forever and we're gonna be together forever.

I mean, you gotta wake up and wanna make it work. It just comes down to that. You have to wanna make it work. It just comes down to that. You have to wanna make it work. You have to look at this person and go, I want to be with you. And right now, you fucking suck, but I wanna be with you, you know? And like, at a minimum, a marriage needs two people

who still want to figure it out and try, because there's not a single marriage out there or relationship that doesn't have points where you're just completely disconnected and at each other's throats and just very frustrated, but you'd need to have this, at least the desire that this is my person and I want to go out of my way to fix this and make it work.

And that has to come from both parties. Yeah, I think we both want those things and then we get to the point of talking it out and then we get halted because we say, well, if you did this, I wouldn't do this. Yeah. You know, like that tit for tat type thing. Exactly. So it means like, let's say it's like, can we, we both do that. We need to both stop that. Again, it's like, can we both do that? We need to both stop that. Again, it's like that we and us language you have to start incorporating more than the you and I language.

And it's again, like I really honestly think it would be a great exercise for you guys to sit down and be like, what's one or two things that you would love me to try to either compromise on or go out of your way that where I'm not meeting your needs today that I could, no questions asked. And you both say that without no excuses, no justifications, no reasonings,

no just something you're both willing to do. And that should be easy, you know, because all you have to do is give a shit, you know, because the whole part of the exercise is doing something you don't have to do is give a shit. Because the whole part of the exercise is doing something you don't want to do or doing something that doesn't come naturally or doing something that isn't just you're doing because you get some kind of satisfaction out of it.

Like, again, access service. It's just like, it's not completely a favor. You get something out of it. It's like, yeah, I wanna make you feel loved, I'm doing this, but like I feel loved by doing things for the people I love. Now you wanna feel appreciated as an active service person when you do those things.

And sometimes the problem with being an active service person is just like, you do those things a lot and then there's often can be overlooked and the people just kind of, you know, it's like, yeah, that's just something you do, you know? And all of a sudden you're like, wait, when did this become my job?

I was doing it because I loved you, you know? Yeah, for sure. So there's a little bit of that. That will always be a sticking point in your relationship. Like, you know what I'm saying? As long as you're in this marriage, you will always have to go out of your way to be more affectionate to him.

He's always gonna have to go out of his way to be more appreciative of what you do do and be willing to help on the things that you do do just because it's not your fucking job. And he's always gonna struggle with that. You're always gonna struggle with that but you both have to be willing to do that. The big thing- He has stepped up a lot. He's stepped up a whole lot. Like he's appreciated. That's good. You're always gonna struggle with that, but you both have to be willing to do that.

The big thing- He has stepped up a lot. He's stepped up a whole lot. He's appreciated more, he's doing more. My big thing for you too is just, Ken, if nothing else, and I say this to all the ladies listening, even if it's manipulative, just make your husband feel important and loved

and needed. If he does something that he's proud of, make your husband feel important and loved and needed. And if he does something that he's proud of, fucking. Yeah. You know, it's like. Yeah, shout it out. Yeah, just like, you know, you will get so much out of your guy if what you are more than anything is his cheerleader.

Yeah, his birth chart says he needs that. Oh, well then every man needs that and if he needs it more than anyone, then yeah, that's something you're gonna have to work on because that definitely does not come naturally to you. Yeah, I can tell it just doesn't come naturally to you. No, yeah, I'm very like, I don't know, harsh, I guess. No, I get it.

Like, you know, I know that because I know me and we have some similarities in our personality, but like, it's important. Just play it up sometimes. Yeah, it just goes a long way. It goes so far. Okay, okay. I think I can do some things to incorporate that

into our everyday. You honestly probably will have to cuddle with them less if you just make them feel like a king, you know? Right. All you women wanna feel like a queen and the not so big secret is men wanna feel like a king too. We all wanna feel that. And maybe one thing his ex-wife has over you

in her loneliness and desperation is she might make him feel those things that you don't. Yeah, she is a complete opposite. Like her tone is soft and sweet and she's able to like communicate and get through to him because of her tone where my tone's like a few, you know, like I'm gonna talk the way I wanna talk. Yeah.

So she's soft and I'm hard, so. Try, you know, maybe try to soften it up a little bit. Yeah. You know, it sounds like you and your husband both need to find that balance in your personalities and the I'm just gonna be me only works so much. When I first started dating, I felt like, honestly comfortable in my skin for the first time.

I mean, honestly, she was like the first person I dated in years. So I was like the first person I dated in years. So I was like, I had a girlfriend in years, so this is new to me. But there's a balance when you get older of understanding who you are. I'm not trying to be someone else so that you can say to whoever your friends

or your partner is, is like, listen, this is who I am. So I hope that you love that. Because like, when I was 19, I tried to please people and that never worked out. So this is who I am. And that's important to be who you are. At the same time, you know? Like, I kind of juggled in the alley.

Like, I'm always gonna struggle with, I'm a little absent-minded, I can leave things open and I will work on it, but just a heads up, if your plan is to get me awesome at this, just leave me now. This is not happening. Doesn't mean I have to try. It doesn't mean that I don't have to work on things.

It doesn't mean that I still have to put the effort in. It's not an excuse to just say, well, this is who I am and you'd have to deal with it. No, it's more of a this is who I am, so I'm gonna be me and overall I want you to accept say, well, this is who I am. You'd have to deal with it. No, it's more of a, this is who I am, so I'm gonna be me, and overall I want you to accept me, but when it comes to some of my shortcomings or points of incompatibility, I'm gonna do my part to bridge that gap.

Yeah, okay. And right now it sounds like you and your husband are unwilling to do your parts to bridge the gaps. Yeah, that's where we get stuck for sure. I think we want to get to the point where we're both doing our parts. It's just a struggle to get over that hurdle. So sit down and be like, can we just stop being stuck?

Let's just like, what's the point of this? Yeah, we're both just being stubborn. If we're gonna be together, let's try. And you know what, if we give it our best, then fine, we'll get the fucking divorce. But right now, we're not even trying our hardest to make this marriage work. Yeah, right.

Maybe a first step would be to say, I'm really sorry for saying I don't need you, and that wasn't true, because I do. And honestly, you do. Could you live without him? Sure. Yeah. Do I want to?

No. Is my life better with you when we're at our best? And that honestly, you do, you know? Like, could you live without him? Sure. Yeah. You know? Do I want to? No. Is my life better with you when we're at our best? Yes. And I think you should apologize for saying that and say, I shouldn't have said it that way.

It's not even what I meant. You know, he wants to feel needed by you. I can promise you that. I know that too. Yeah. Okay. Well, was this helpful? Very helpful, yeah. Just hearing another man's perspective

and how you were able to just pick up on our personalities quickly is very helpful. Okay, well, keep me posted. I'd love to know how it works. And maybe if you guys wanna come on together, I'd love to chat with you both if that's something of interest to you guys. Yeah, for sure.

I think he would like that. Cause I think he needs to hear another male's perspective just mutually hearing both sides. Yeah. Well, I'd be down. I'd love to do it. So let me know. Okay.

I will. All right. Take care. Thank you so much. All right. Bye-bye. Bye. With prices going up on just about everything lately,

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Hi, I'm Chris Gethered and I'm very excited to tell you about Beautiful Anonymous, a podcast where I talk to random people on the phone. I tweet out a phone number, thousands of people try to call, talk to one of them, they stay anonymous, I can't hang up, that's all the rules. I never know what's gonna happen. We get serious ones, I've talked with meth dealers

on their way to prison, I've talked to people who survived mass shootings, crazy funny ones. I talked to a guy with a goose laugh, somebody who dresses up as a pirate on the weekends. I never know what's going to happen. It's a great show. Subscribe today, Beautiful Anonymous. How's it going? Good. My name is Rachel. I'm 28. I'm wondering if the guy I'm talking to is a horrible communicator or if he's just not into me. Okay. Why do you think he might just not be into you? I'd say I don't really have that much experience dating. I'm a very lazy dater. So I don't know.

I can't tell if he just is a bad texter or if he just is a bad texter with me. Define bad texting. We have good conversations, but he will only respond every like couple of days. We'll be having a conversation and then he just won't respond. And then three days later, he'll be like, Oh, I'm so sorry. Like I'm, I've just been really busy. Okay. How long you been hanging out with this guy?

Um, we met on hinge. I think it was either December or November and we've been out a couple of times. Well, not more than a couple times. We've been, see each other every, I'd say two to three weeks. All right, on dates, is he taking you on dates? Is it just like? Yeah, he takes me, like we've been out to dinner.

Have you hooked up? A little bit, a little. Like no sex, sex? Yeah, sex. What's that, no sex or sex? Sex. Okay. Sex. No sex or sex? Sex. Okay, okay, so you're hooked up. All right.

And it sounds like this is pretty casual. Have you guys had any conversations about whether you guys are into each other or see potential in this? Or is it just kind of like every once in a while you guys just chat about life and then he comes and goes, because what month are we in? We're in, we're in April.

So you met in November. You've known this guy for five, six months now. Yeah. So when we first, cause we met on hinge, right? So you can kind of see what someone is looking for. And like, obviously we talked about that and he is 31. So he's, he's thinking about like starting a family, getting married, like he talks about it. And yeah, we thinking about starting a family, getting married, he talks about it. And yeah, we talked about that a lot on our first date.

He was asking me questions like, what was your last relationship like? And what would you want from a future partner? So it was a good, deep conversation. So I thought it was kind of going somewhere. Yeah, I don't know. And that was just like the first date? That was the first date, yeah.

And since then? Since then we just, I don't know, we just like to have fun together. I'm really comfortable with him. We talk about anything. Except, except how it's going? Except, I mean, except the good part. What do you mean by you're a lazy dater?

I've never heard that phrase. I'm like queen of circling back to my ex situations. So I don't know, a lot of guys that I have talked to in the past will come around again and I'm like, I'm not really talking to anybody. So I just want to entertain it again. And then I don't really go out much. So I don't know how to meet people, thus hinge,

but hinge overwhelms me after a little bit. So I usually like take it and then delete it every couple of weeks. I think that's fairly healthy. I mean, it's easy to feel fatigued from dating apps. I don't think you're any different nowadays. We've become a society that it's honestly it's a tragedy how terrible of a communicator we are. You know communicators we are period. Like men aren't approaching women

anymore you know partly because they've been told they're either obnoxious or at best or or dangerous at worst you know and so guys don't wanna, you know, meanwhile I think there's still a lot of women who would love to be approached by men, you know? And it's just, we just stopped going out. You know, anyway, so you're not the only one. So just don't, you know, it's like you're not the only one who's having a hard time meeting people in person.

And I wish things would change in that department. But until then, I think dating apps are a totally fine and acceptable form of meeting people as long as we are willing to take breaks. And as long as we understand that dating apps come with fatigue and it's very easy to get discouraged because dating in general, as I always say, it's meant to have more misses than hits. Like in baseball, they say if you get a hit three times out of 10, you're a Hall of Famer. In dating, your goals only meet one.

And so if you, one out of 200, still a Hall of Famer. You know what I'm saying? So we forget that, so to speak. So back to your situation, part of the problem that sounds like it is you, because you're just kind of, like I think a lot of people, if nothing else, you're familiar with these men, so which means you're comfortable with these men,

and when they hit you up and you kind of decide, well, I don't really have anything going on, I'm kind of bored enough to say yes, and I don't think that's the end of the world, we've all done that, I've done that. It's like, you know what, I actually did have a pretty good time with her and I definitely don't have anything going on right now. So why not? Why not? And so it just comes down to intentionality, right? It's just like, how intentional do you want to be with your

dating life, right? You're only 28. You're still really young. I'm not sure what your relationship goals are, especially around like children, because it's easy for me to say you're young, but I don't have to deal with any biological clock or things like that. What you're doing right now is not helping you find your person. It is keeping you preoccupied.

And so if your goal is to like stay busy and not be lonely, you're doing a pretty good job. But if your goal is to date for the purposes of, hey, I've had some fun, I've participated in hookup culture, I've had some situationships, but like I'm ready to meet someone, then it requires the willingness and ability to be alone, feel lonely at times,

and it's gonna require you to initiate conversations that are slightly uncomfortable to have. But the key part is before that is just that willingness to be alone and feel lonely at times. Because often we don't have the conversations we feel like we know we should have because we're afraid of the answer we might get, and then we're like, well, if I don't have the conversations we feel like we know we should have because we're afraid of the answer we might get. And then we're like, well, if I don't get the answer I want,

then this thing might end. And honestly, I do like having him around. So this is fine. It's fine. That's kind of what we tell ourselves. That's true. I should mention actually that I have a child from a previous relationship.

Oh, okay. That's like one of the things I'm a child from a previous relationship. Oh, okay. That's like one of the things I'm afraid of for a relationship is getting into a serious relationship with someone and getting married, having more kids and then breaking up and having to do it all over again. That's like my worst fear with dating right now. So that was really close to that. I was in a serious relationship last year and And I just like we weren't connecting like our personality wise, but he was like perfect in every other way. And yeah, I don't know, like, I'm trying to find someone with all the qualities, but also

like with me. Yeah. Well, listen, like dating is scary, you know, like it's, it is, and it sometimes feels scarier and scarier as we get older because we feel like we have less time. You know, when we're dating him or younger, we're like, you know what? It's okay. You know, I'm only 21 or something, you know, and then you have a child and then you're all of a sudden you're 28 and you're like, fuck, I fuck, I gotta get the next one right. Yeah. But you just, this doesn't work that way, you know? And also, how you're going about dating now is it makes it even less likely that you're gonna get what you want

because you're not being intentional about it. So it's like you're so afraid something bad could happen you're not even trying to make something good happen. You know, it's like if I never have it, I can't lose it. How old's your child? He's gonna be three next week. Okay, congratulations. Yeah, I mean, do you want to have more kids?

Yeah, I do. Okay. I want more siblings for her and like, I want someone who wants a family. Obviously, I want someone who wants a family, well obviously I want someone who wants a family, but I would like to have children with like my next partner. And right now, like, are you like, do you introduce these people to your daughter at all? I only introduced my last boyfriend to my daughter,

but we were dating for almost a year. And I don't really want to introduce anyone new to her until I'm like for sure know that they're gonna stick around because like she still knows his name, like my ex and it's like, it makes me sad that she like is looking for him sometimes. So I don't really want to put her through that in case I like, it doesn't work out with the next one.

I think you're just putting yourself through things. I think she's gonna be fine. I think she won't even remember. But I totally get why it makes you feel sad, but I think the truth of that statement is you don't wanna put yourself through the guilt of hearing your daughter say someone else's name, but she's not gonna remember.

She'll be fine. My daughter is gonna meet people, she might meet people that she connects with that it might be a babysitter that we don't use anymore or something. So my point is, you feel this extra sense of guilt and pressure around being a mom and as every mom and parent does,

but your kid's gonna be fine. It's gonna be fine. Kids are adaptable, resilient, and I think you just have to try to reframe your feelings on that and just acknowledge that she's gonna be okay, and yeah, you have some guilt around it, but you have to give yourself some grace

so that you can have a chance at building the life that you want for you and your daughter. And so you have to kind of put your, you have to have the right frame of mind, and then you have to be more intentional, right? Giving your situationships and these casual men, you know, chances to stick around isn't, is definitely not getting you what you want.

It's just kind of keeping you preoccupied, and it's also kind of keeping you sidelined. So as far as this guy, I don't, you know, usually when you have to ask yourself, is he just not that into me or something else, it's usually, he's usually not that into you. At the same time, you know, it definitely can be just two people being very casual about it,

because I do think nowadays, like, I think people are just bad communicators, and no one wants to take a shot. No one wants to put themselves out there, especially when two people start having sex. I'm getting 85% of what I would get out of a relationship and I have no responsibilities. So most people, that's why they take the 85%

of a relationship because they have this unlimited freedom. They don't have to do anything. If I were you, I would just find out. How do I find out? Do you like this guy? I like him, but I mean, yes. There's no bad answer. Yeah, I know. I'm trying to word it right. I didn't ask if he's a love of your life.

I just asked if you like the guy. I know, I'm very good at compartmentalizing my feelings. So I know that if he tells me that he likes me, I'll be like, oh, yay, then let's date. But if he doesn't, I'll completely be okay. But I like- Listen, I know, you will definitely be okay, right? You're gonna be okay no matter what, you know?

You'll have your good days and your bad days, but you're gonna be okay. You're a mom, you're capable of almost anything, you know? Like, give yourself some credit, but like, I think I know you're gonna be fine. I think that you, deep down, are worried you won't be, you know, and I think you have a lot of fear of being hurt and I think you've got a lot of fear of putting yourself out there

and I think you've convinced yourself to live this kind of casual dating lifestyle that's kind of very non-committal on your end to avoid the rejection or the pain or the hurt. I think I'm just kind of like nervous, like not nervous, but like, I feel like it's so hard to find another person that like, that I'll like all these qualities about. And I'm like, I feel like I'm running out of time again. Well, you are only 28. I am.

You got a lot going for you. I can tell, you know? So I think you just have to change your perspective a little bit. Yeah. I heard if he wanted to for you, I can tell, you know? So I think you just have to change your perspective a little bit. Yeah. I heard if he wanted to date you, you would date him. Yeah. Okay, so when I say you should find out,

I think you should just tell him you like him. I mean, do you think you could, some version of, hey, I really like, I've enjoyed these past few months, I think we should actually like like see if this is a thing and be exclusive and try. And I wanna do that and are you, you know, do you? Do you think you can do that? Maybe.

What's the worst that could happen? He says no. No, yeah. I mean, yeah, but you're right. That is the worst that could happen and it's not like that big of a deal. Yeah. Cause like, right, you know, like,

you're not like, oh my God, this guy's my dream guy. He's the best. He's like, you like him. You would date him. You're not obsessed. You know what I'm saying? Like you, if you get rejected, your ego will be triggered. It's gonna be, it's gonna feel more painful

than it actually is for a few days and then you'll get over it. But that's kinda it. But right now you're just sitting here wondering, just wasting a bunch of energy. Yeah. This would be like an in-person or a text. Conversations are always more effective in person, you know? At the same time, I also don't think this needs to be some sort of profound conversation. I think maybe next time you guys get together,

you can just say, I hate the what are we question because that immediately gives you power. I know, I hate them. You know? Yeah. Because then you're asking their permission, it's like what are we? And then they're gonna be like, I don't know,

we're having fun. That's exactly what he's gonna say. And you just say, listen, I really enjoyed this so far, but you know me, I don't got time to waste. I'm a busy person, you got a daughter, you don't have to point that daughter out. You can just say, this has been fun. Yeah, but like, I like ya, I like ya enough so far. And you always say like so far,

but like, fuck, we don't know each other that well, but what I know about you so far, I really like, and I see potential here. Don, but like, you know, fuck, we don't know each other that well, but what I know about you so far, I really like, and I see potential here. You know, don't say I see a future, because you don't, you see potential. You know, and I think we should, I think we should try. And if he's like, I don't know,

I always say anything but a, okay, is a no. And you don't convince or plead, you don't try to, well, you know, I think we're, you know, you're just like, okay, all right, well, I definitely don't wanna keep doing this because like, you're fun and this is cool, but I just, I don't have time for, I just, I'm not looking for casual.

And obviously we've been hanging out for a few months and like, if we just keep doing this, it doesn't make sense for me. You know, maybe it makes sense for you, but like, the more, and I wish I could just, I want to stress this on every call, especially in these kind of dating situationship types of things where you're confused

and you're worried about what they might say. It's just like, the more you just show without trying to prove that you are gonna be okay, that you have shit going on, that you have shit going on, that you're a busy person, that you don't have time for people wasting your time. Yes, you'll get more answers that you don't like, but you will also, people will find you more in demand,

they will find you more attractive, they will really ask themselves that this is worth letting go, you know what I'm saying? Like when people show you that like, they're not willing to have you waste their time, they immediately want to be in your orbit, you know what I'm saying? Like just, they do.

It's not gonna, it doesn't make like every man obsessed with you, but the ones who are taking you for granted but actually do like you, will take you for granted less. And a guy can like you. We all can like people that we take for granted all the time. Because that's just human nature.

When people allow, again, I've used this analogy. If something costs 15 and you give them 20, chances are they'll take 20 every time. And so that's kind of where you're at right now. You're just not asking for change. you're just not you're asking for change You're just like yeah, I mean sure I guess I'm free You know this helpful Yeah, I need to boost my own confidence about what what are you afraid of you're right that it's not about him

It's about me and I have to set my own that it's not about him, it's about me, and I have to set my own boundaries in terms of what I want and make sure I'm telling people what I want instead of just going with what they want and just letting things happen. Not every guy is gonna be into you, not every person, but a lot.

I get the sense that you pretty much can have your, you have plenty of options. So you're gonna be fine., you have plenty of options. So, you know, um, you're going to be fine. You just, you know, you just have to work through it, but the more you tell yourself, you should be able to tell yourself that you have enough going for you, that you deserve to be picky and be patient and you can have high demands and high expectations of people. Cause I don't, I'm not getting the sense from you that you're like one of these

people where I need to be like, well, I think you need to maybe look in the mirror and just ask what you're willing to do for them. You have a lot to be confident about. And I think you should start acting that way. Yeah, you gotta kind of give your like, I don't have time for fucks. Men, nothing men like more than just realizing

a woman doesn't have time for- I bet I do. What? Hinge headline, my hinge headline. I doesn't have time for you. What? A hinge headline. I don't have time for you, honestly. It would probably be a banger with men. Try saying, do you ever say no to these random invites? I mean, if I don't like them, I'll always be booked. No, I'm saying do you ever say no to men that you do like?

No, not usually. I'm really bad at saying no, honestly. Or just, yeah, be busy, or just not right now. Just pretend to be busy. I could try that. Yeah, like if a guy calls you the day of, never go out with him that day, ever. Okay.

Ever. Right. Like if you get a call, like three in the afternoon, be like, what are you doing tonight? He's bored. Right. Right. Like if you get a call like three in the afternoon like what are you doing tonight? He's bored. Right. Something reminded him of you, coupled with the fact that he probably like

is feeling lonely or maybe he just got rejected in some other aspect of his life, he needs to pick me up. You popped into his head and he's like, what are you doing tonight? Any guy who asks you out the day of, you're just unavailable. The guy, I got plans tonight.

But you know, I'd love to get together some other time. At a minimum, a guy should be willing to make a plan with you and if he's. The guy, I got plans tonight, but I'd love to get together some other time, at a minimum a guy should be willing to make a plan with you, and if he's not willing to make a plan with you, he doesn't like you enough. Or you haven't challenged him to make the plan. We don't like to do more work than we have to do. I'd incorporate that one into your, just never saying yes to that.

Yeah, just be like, yeah, just be busy, maybe some other time. But as far as this guy goes, I think you just need to practice saying exactly what you want from this guy. We have plans tomorrow. You do? Perfect. Yeah.

Awesome. Go out, have fun, and at the end of that date, I wouldn't sleep with him. Okay. So have fun on the date, and just be like, yeah, I was, no matter what he says, I wouldn't sleep with him, even if he says yes. Well, unless he's like, yeah, I was thinking no matter what he says, I wouldn't sleep with him, even if he says yes.

Well, unless he's like, yeah, I was thinking the same thing, let's be boyfriend and girlfriend, then sure, have a ball. But anything short of that, I would just, and again, don't be sad, don't be mad, and don't try to convince him. If you don't get the answer you want, and that is a yes, I'll think about it,

I'm not sure, I don't know. Those are all nos. Yeah. And just say, hey listen, okay, well if you're not sure, then I am. And that's totally okay, but I just don't got time. And it's very chill, it's very matter of fact. It's very unbothered, very just like, cool, all right,

yeah, no problem. Because that will rattle, if he cares at all, that'll rattle his cage. If you don't get the answer you want, and you often don't at first when you do something like this, and he doesn't freak out in less than a week, he's not your guy. If he's not afraid to lose you after you've shown him that you are unbothered by moving on, don't take his calls, don't let him casually check in, don't let him do the, don't let him get back in the routine. Just like it's, you've been hanging out for four months, you've been basically acting like boyfriend and girlfriend

when you get together, but he has no responsibility. He doesn't have to do anything to keep you around. So make him do that. All right? And if it doesn't work out with this guy, no more accepting dates day of. All right. All right?

Well, good luck. Thank you. All right, keep you posted. Hopefully I actually go through with it. Well, what's the alternative? There's no alternative, I'm gonna do it. I mean, there is an alternative. You could waste more of your time.

And if you're worried about running out of time, you know, let that be your motivator. You know, yeah, you're still really young, but like you're right, you're worried about running out of time, let that be your motivator. Yeah, you're still really young, but you're right. You're not getting any younger. No one is. And if you don't fix this, the shortcoming you have, you're gonna have to take action with your life and you're gonna have to get some guts

and want to make some changes. And if you do, good things will happen. And if you don't, nothing will happen. This will just keep happening. And it can happen for a very long do, good things will happen. If you don't, nothing will happen. This will just keep happening. And it can happen for a very long time, a very long time. There's an unlimited amount of people willing to waste your time. You have to stop allowing that to happen.

And more importantly, you gotta get better at, first you have to stop wasting your time so you get better at not allowing others to. Because again, it's an unlimited amount of people. Always be someone willing to waste your time. Right. Godspeed. Thank you. Good luck. I'm rooting for you.

I would love an update. We'll check in on you. Okay, I'll definitely do an update. Hopefully you have good news. We're gonna hold you accountable. All right. I'll hold me accountable. Yes, you do.

You can do it. You can do it. You can do it. Do it for you, do it for your daughter, whatever you need to motivate yourself. Like you just, you have too much going for yourself to waste your time. You just do. There's millions of men out there

that would love to make you their queen. You probably don't want most of them, but I'm just saying, you know, don't waste your time. Just find the ones that you want. The one, your guy out there, the one that, because we all want someone where we feel like, we all wanna feel like a little proud of ourselves for landing the person we got.

We all wanna feel like, not like they're out of our league, but it's almost like we wanna feel a sense of, we don't wanna feel like we settled. So your guy that you're gonna be into will absolutely waste your time if you let him. True. Because the person you want also fancies themself and also likes to, you know what I'm saying?

So your guy is not out there sitting on his ass just feeling sorry for himself, desperate to meet you. Because you don't like him. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So you have to get good at not wasting your time so that the man that you want to be with won't waste yours. I like it. Okay.

All right. Okay. Good luck. I'm rooting for you. All right. Take care. Okay. Bye-bye.