The Viall Files - E938 - Mayci And Layla, Secret Lives Of Mormon Wives And The Valley Deep Dive

Episode Date: May 22, 2025

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  It’s still MomTok season over here at the Viall Files and we are so excited to be joined by Mayci and Layla to get all the tea and all the shade on this season! Plus, we deep dive into episodes 4-6 of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives and the most recent episode of The Valley. Did Layla have the Big O? Do the girls think Demi and Bret will last? Why is Janet Like That? And more! You will not want to miss it.   “She was never a good friend to me” Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  OUT NOW! Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff. Available wherever you get your podcasts and YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Follow us on X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheViallFiles Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles     THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Helix Sleep - For their Memorial Day Sale, go to https://helixsleep.com/viall for 27% Off Sitewide + Free Bedding Bundle (Sheet Set and Mattress Protector) with any Luxe or Elite Mattress Order. DailyLook - It’s time to get your own personal stylist with DailyLook. Head to https://dailylook.com to take your style quiz and use code VIALL50 for 50% off your first order.  Pretty Litter - Right now save 20% on your FIRST order and get a free cat toy at https://prettylitter.com/viall  Mixtiles - Turn your favorite memories into stunning affordable wall art. For a limited time, our listeners get 35% off on all orders above $139. Just head to https://mixtiles.com use code VIALL, and you’re all set. Cymbiotika - Go to https://cymbiotika.com/viall to get 20% off plus free shipping. Timestamps: (00:00) - Intro (02:01) - Mormon Wives Release and Binge Streaming (08:40) - The Valley Recap (30:12) - Mormon Wives Recap (51:41) - Mayci and Layla Interview (01:32:57) - Mormon Wives Superlatives  (01:36:30) - Outro Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @laylaleannetaylor @maycineeley @ciaracrobinson @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell       

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This offer is exclusive for our listeners of The Vowel Files. That's helixsleep.com slash viall for 27% off site wide plus free bedding bundle, which is a sheet set in a mattress protector with any Lux or Elite mattress order helixsleep.com slash vi all. What's going on everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Vile Files, Reel to Recap edition.

I hope everyone is having a happy Thursday, because we are. We have a lot to get into. It's another jam packed episode. More of the wives of Secret Lives of Mormon Wives are with us this episode. Macy and Layla join us for another jam-packed interview these ladies are giving. We love them, we are grateful for their truth and honesty. I don't know what you all are thinking

about this season so far. I mean, it's all out, I don't know. You know, I need to talk to Rob Mills. Yeah, and what do you need to talk to Rob Mills about? I genuinely want to ask him. I don't know if he gives a shit about my opinion. I did see, I saw like some kind of TikTok. It was like from a journalist and they were like, please whoever Hulu, like please don't

release these all at once. I'm wondering if how fans, I honestly wish they would do like selfishly, I wish they would roll it out. Not all at once. It's like harder to cover. I kind of like how Love is Blind does it. It's like three episodes at once or something. Yeah, give me three acts.

Give me the first third, the setup of the season. Leave me on the edge of my seat. Make me sweat for the next week. Think about the press. But that's what that, some journalist was like, think about us. But, and I don't necessarily expect Rob Mills, who is in charge of Hulu,

I am curious how they decide that and what makes them decide that. Apple seems to do a weekly drop with their scripted shows and things like that. Love is Blind on Netflix, they do the whole batches. They dropped all of Mormon Wives all at once last time. I think a lot of people probably binge, I feel like. Like they dropped it Thursday.

I feel like over the weekend, people were kind of cranking it out. But I would, with this journalist, whoever, I bet they're, you know, but it does give the opportunity for shows like ours and the media to create more buzz, right? And I think create that excitement, it allows people to focus on various storylines. Like honestly, like season two is jam packed

with so many fucking storylines. Like I think they lose out on fans, like focusing on the whole like Chippendales of it all and like breaking that down, you know? storylines, I think they lose out on fans focusing on the whole Chippendales of it all and breaking that down. Like we did on Tuesday's episode of Reality Recap, if you wanna go back there, and we debate whether, did Chase, did Demi exaggerate, did Demi not exaggerate?

Like, I don't know. Like. Yeah. Vertix. Mm-hmm. It's not clear. You know? It's not clear. You know what I'm saying?

So it's kinda, it's harder to do. Like, I think things fall through the cracks. Right. And I think it creates a pressure cooker. I don't know. I think it would perform a little bit better if they batched it out a little bit more. I think binging is dead.

I think it's so much. What's like? What does that mean? Well, I think it's like when you binge something, you watch it all at once, and then you forget everything. But when you have like a weekly schedule, or I mean, I love like a multi-episode premiere. You know, like give me like two or three episodes at the premiere and then once a week,

you have something to look forward to during your week. And then you can talk about it with your friends and it like creates way more like of an online community talking about it. Cause everyone's on the same page. Yeah. No, that's actually so true. I was talking with my friend about it

and she was like, the scene we're done, and I go, I haven't gotten there yet. Exactly. Don't ruin it for me. But thank you. So they should go 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 1. 3, 3, 1. Like the finale.

3, 3, 3, 1. Yeah, 3, 3, 3, 1, math. Pay attention to how we cover it and then match that. Do what we do. Yeah. Everybody. Rob Mills? Sir.

Well, I hope they, I hope they, I'm going to try, I'm going to try to convince them. And if they'd make any changes, I'm going to take all the credit. As you should. Mm-hmm. To change how they do this season three, because I can tell you right now, I, I, we have had the opportunities to speak with many of the ladies and people who make the show and people who work for Hulu. And every single person has been like, season two is nothing, guys.

This is amateur hour. Season three is an absolute clusterfuck of a season. Didn't they just start filming? I think they're almost done. I think they're almost done. Season three. Oh my God. They're working. That's what I'm saying. like almost done. I think they're almost done. Season three. Oh my God. They're working.

That's what I'm saying. They're employed. We ran into them at the Hulu's Get Real event. They were filming there. We were kind of like doing a scene with them. We didn't know. We were just saying hi to the ladies. And we were like, oh my God,

you guys are, there's a boom mic in front of us. Like, oh shit. We didn't sign any releases, so we will not be on it. Thank God. And then I hosted the- Who knows what I said? Thanks. Well, we didn't sign any releases, we will not be on it. Thank God. And then I hosted the- That's what I said. Thanks. Well, we didn't sign any releases,

so I think we're fine. And then I hosted the premiere. They did a panel last week. They were filming there. They were filming at Stagecoach. My understanding is that the reason they just keep filming is because they are constantly giving. There is this constantly internal drama with this group

in their relationships, with their friendships. It is nonstop. And in every single person I've talked to, whether it's part of the cast or crew, they just can't shut up about just how fucking crazy season three is. And that's like off to the heels of season two. Wait, that's actually insane.

I'm like, is there a possibility that we could get another season this year? Or like, would it be like the top of next year? I don't know. I believe. I don't know. I don't know for sure. I bet it would be like this fall. I believe it's this fall. I believe. Don't quote me on this.

A spring season, a fall season. That is feeling on trend. It feels Mormon. But it's like feels very. Things are certainly subject to change. I don't know. But I hope if they do, I hope they batch it out a little bit. I do. Yeah, well, they're the gift that keeps on giving.

It's like Love Island, but different. You know what I mean? Like it's like you just, you're always gonna be on my TV and that makes me excited. They also know how to like use other platforms very well. And the way I feel like Bravo's kind of catching up to that, but the wives, they're like, they're making the talk talks. They're going on the podcast. They're like, they're making the talk talks. They're going on the podcast.

They're like, they're ingratiating all of it into this one beautiful cataclysm. Like that's not what cataclysm means. I honestly don't even think that they could stop if they were forced to stop. Like if production was like ladies, stop. I talked to one of the producers who like needs break. They're tired.

And the ladies were like kind of need a break too. And they were like, listen, when you guys stop fighting, we'll take a break. So please. So please. Stop fighting. Turn off your phones and stay home. Literally.

We do have a jam packed episode. We've got Macy and Layla. Macy and Layla. We will be breaking down the Valley as well. If you haven't listened to episodes going deeper with Michelle. I mean, also, I just want to say you're welcome Valley because I know your ratings have not been the best.

There's been a lot of speculation. I saw that they maybe are getting the C word. Taused. Okay, the P word. The C word? Cancel. Alex Baskin did put all that to silence. He put that to bed.

It's just insiders who could be anybody saying this. Well, what did Mr. Baskin say? He said there's no truth to any of this. But the ratings aren't great. They went up for the last episode, but I think episode three was a serious series. It's an excellent show. Listen, I can understand people not wanting to like support Jax and Jesse's behavior.

Yeah. Well, if you haven't listened to Michelle's episode, I think it's giving very like Dirty John. It's giving Lifetime, Married to a Monster. I don't think I'm being hyperbolic when I like, when listening to Michelle talk about how... I mean, she agreed with you. So I don't think I'm being hyperbolic. Like, listening to Michelle talk about how... I mean, she agreed with you. So, I don't think you're being,

if you were being hyperbolic, she would have been like, well, I don't know if I'd go that far, but she was like, yeah, no, you're right. But this is a man who just goes out of his way to try to emotionally torture the mother of his child, and he has been doing this from the time being. And I'm not one to diagnose,

I don't know, I'm not one to, it's not, I'm not diagnosed, It's not'm not one to, I'm not, I'm not, I, you know, but. It's not for you to say. It's not for me to say, but I don't know if that's not emotionally, I don't, I don't know what it is. What it is, yeah.

Because that sounds like fucking torture, and when someone just constantly gaslights and hangs things over your head, and like, that's gaslighting. I think we learned with that interview with Michelle, we learned a lot about what Michelle was going through in her day-to-day life that Jesse knew about what's going on. And it didn't stop him from treating her

the way he was treating her on national television, which says a lot for me, that she had to take the things that Jesse was saying to her back to her family and be like, this is what I'm dealing with right now. And like, it's, there's, it's brutal. It's a sad situation, which honestly made me, I was thinking this week, you know,

I asked Nellie's advice on something. What was that? Doesn't matter. Oh, I thought that's what we were gonna do. We are not privy to that information. I'm like, what was it? Yeah. No, but it kind of like, it was more,

it just was more like, you know, it's kind of crazy when you marry someone. Hey, I love where this is going. You're like, it's gonna go up. You think? I think so. We'll see, we'll see, hold on. I've got a thing.

But you're safe. No, but like, it's just one of those things you kind of take for granted, that like when you marry someone, depending on what you do for a living, or what goes on in your life, but obviously, often people who get married have kids together, the stakes are high

when it comes to kids. The hope is that you're with someone that you can run by things, that you give a shit about their opinion, that you can be like, hey, what do you think about that? And then they say something, you go, okay, thank you. And you know they have your best interest. They have your best interest in manner

that you respect their opinion. And that or even at a minimum, like, you know, listen, if I were a lawyer, I'm not. And let's say, you know, maybe it might be harder for me to like ask Natalie about like legal advice or something, but at a minimum, just to be married to some. I feel like I watched enough of the Karen retrial to be able to give you like sound advice.

I object. But just like even at a minimum, just knowing that you have the ability to make your partner feel confident about the decisions they're making. For me, I don't know. I ultimately ask Natalie questions not no pressure that have like million dollar ramifications.

And I'm like, I feel pretty good about asking her opinion. Million dollar opinion. She clearly doesn't know the risk when she's answering these questions. I'm like, I feel pretty good about asking her opinion million-dollar opinion She clearly doesn't know the risk when she's in these questions But it's like all right You know, I do I do feel lucky to have married someone who I really value her opinion. I have a good head on my shoulders. I know a thing or two. Well, I think you also, you know people.

I think you read people pretty well and like your instinctual when it comes to, you know, because I think a lot of decisions are based off about like, how are people gonna respond to this? You know, how do you think this situation would play out? I don't know, I do feel very lucky to be married to someone whose opinion.

I don't know, you don't really know those things when before you, you date them and you get married or whatever, but then once you're in it, you have kids together, and after talking to someone like Michelle, who everything changed when she got pregnant, her words. Yeah. You know, that feeling and the knowing

that so many people, like again, if you're out there and if you relate to this, go listen to Michelle episode, you will feel, it's a sad story. Should we just get into the valley? You might feel less alone. While on this topic? Yeah, sure, we can get into the valley. Janet really is the worst.

Yeah. Justin, do you have any? Janet, if you're out there, if you're listening, if you feel like we have you wrong, please. Janet really is the worst. Yeah. Yeah. Justin Giotti. Janet, if you're out there, if you're listening, if you feel like we have you wrong, please. Come on, sit down. Come on in. I'm always down to scooch. Justin?

Justin? Justin? Justin? Is Janet still a crowd favorite? All I said was last season she had a lot of fans. Did she? She did. You can literally search on the internet.

She had a lot of people loving her she? She did. You can literally search on the internet. She had a lot of people loving her until the season finale where she was evil. Listen, there are a lot of Karens out there and they need representation. Representation matters. They need representation. That comment at the table with Nia

is the rest of them when they're trying to be like, we're so sorry for the way we handled this and Janet being like, and he's kind of similar to a guy I was married to who like drugs and alcohol. It's like kind of the same thing. Huh? Wild. And like, I don't even, I'm not,

I'm certainly not Danny's biggest fan, but like, girl. And yes, if he was in a closet doing pulls of tequila, that is weird. But you do not get to diagnose and compare them to someone you know to be an addict who's abusive. You don't get to make that leap. Right. Also, like, and the way Danny explained it

on Watch What Happens Live, he was like, I went into there to grab a white claw. I see the handle of tequila right there. I'm like, sure, I'll do a shot. Still aggressive. But Janet made it so like dark and sneaky and shady and like, oh my God, he was like hiding from Nia and didn't want anyone to see him

and he was chugging and chugging and chugging and drank the whole handle. And it's all based off of like her having a problem with them being considered the happy, healthy couple. 100% it's jealousy. When she said, my husband has never once hidden a cupboard chugging tequila, making people uncomfortable.

I really wanted to jump through the TV for Nia. I can't imagine how that would feel. You're not a friend, first of all. And second of all, they did the same thing again where Nia leaves the table and then they- Jasmine immediately changed. I can't do the tears. Huh?

Say that when she's crying. With friends like these. And she apologized. She apologized for talking about her behind her back. And then the second she leaves again, she does it all over again and talks about her behind her back. That pissed me off so much. Also, she's crying, reliving some trauma from her childhood.

She's not crying because she wants you to feel sorry for her. It's like, guys, I was homeless with my mom, and this crazy shit happened happened and that crazy shit happened and Jasmine being like, you can't do the tears, honestly. It's just really fake. I think Jasmine's trying too hard to get airtime. I kinda do too, because it's just over-performative. And mean. And mean.

It's very mean girly. To the nicest person on the cast. Literally. Do we take back what we said last week about Nia and Dani not being made for the show? I only say that because, well, I think we made good points. I really, honestly, I appreciate the representation of a couple that is like, hey, we're not here

to spill every fucking thing, and if you don't want us, fine, but we're just not gonna do that, we're not gonna sell out, and I know this is probably an unpopular take. No, that's a good point. And I appreciate her backstory about her very sad childhood, and good for her for making a life for herself,

and having all these incredible accomplishments in adulthood that started with her being fucking homeless and living out of a fucking car, and that's fucking, that's starting literally from the bottom, you know? And like, God forbid she wants to protect the things that matter, and she's not willing to sell out her family,

like so many of these cast members are, for fucking air time. Which leads me to my next haunt take, which I know will be unpopular. I kind of have no fucking empathy for Brittany. And I'm kinda over it. And I don't think she deserves the Ariana treatment. What happened this episode that made you think that?

It's just kind of accumulation. We, in case you guys haven't heard, we are recapping in Viola Follows Plus Vanderpump. We are in season five right now. Six. Six, okay. And we, it's fucking brutal. I mean, it's just honestly going back and recapping it

is like watching the value over again. I mean, like how many, just how many chances, like it's like Jax is so fucking terrible to Brittany and it's, she's being warned over and over every day. It's, she's just making a choice. She's monetizing Jax's bad behavior. It does also feel like, and obviously this is just a show, but it feels like Jax treats her this way constantly.

Like I feel like a lot of people in these types of relationships will be like, when it's good, it is damn good. And the 10% that it's bad, it's bad. But like that 90% boy, and it feels like there's not even the 90%, you know? It's just like, it's just always bad. And even in that fight that they were having at the beginning, that carried on from last up, that 90% boy and it feels like there's not even the 90%. It's just like, it's just always bad.

And even in that fight that they were having at the beginning that carried on from last episode, it's like, Zach made a really good point where he was like, how many times have you lied to protect Jax and you're coming at Nia? But regardless, Nia's fine to admit that her husband had too much to drink, but he's also tired.

Two things can be true. You're upset because you think that they're not sharing the deepest, darkest, dirtiest secrets, but I'm like, not everybody has the relationship you have with Jax. Where it's constant trauma to expose. Also it's like, Brittany and Jax's relationship was built being on an extremely toxic television show

together, and like that is their relationship dynamic, where I feel like Danny and Nia, like literally, they obviously had a life together before the valley started. So they have something to protect, whereas I think Brittany and Jax were so, like that was their relationship. Yeah, it's just more, we've witnessed Brittany monetizing Jax's bad behavior

for how many years now. So it's as hard for me to go in there. They both do it, Jax and her. Fine, but like we hate Jax. And it's just like, I don't know, like, I'm so honestly, if they got rid of Brittany and Jax from the Valley, if I could replace one couple, it would be Brittany and Jax because it just,

it's not new, it's the same shit. There's nothing new to say. There's nothing new to recap. Yeah, there's no growth. There's no arc. Yeah, there's no growth, There's no arc. Yeah, there's no growth. There's no arc. There's no, like with Kristen, I texted her this the other day. I'm like, it's so lovely to see this version of you.

You are such a good, loyal friend. And it really shows throughout this, even like her sitting at the table this episode and being like, if anyone has anything negative to say about Nia, like they're gonna have to go through me first. It just really shows like the growth that crazy Kristen has had. And like, yeah, Jackson and Brittany don't have that.

It's like the still the same games they've been playing for the last 10 years. And like at some point we've got to stop and clearly a divorce like isn't stopping any of it. Because the fact that he's in this mental institute and like still rage texts her, still blows her up and she has not blocked him is the craziest thing to me. It's like, maybe he wants updates on this,

like the nanny can give him updates on cruise and send photos and be like, here's what he's doing today. You don't have to do that, Brittany. He does not deserve access to you anymore. But her being like, no, I can't help it. I'm obsessed with responding and reading. It's like storyline. It's just, and reading all this. It's like storyline. It's just, yeah, it is.

It's her storyline. Ooh, storyline. I just, it's hard to give a shit about her plight anymore. And it's not gonna change. Just kinda like do something different at this point. And honestly, I'm kinda uncomfortable watching him at this point, you know? It's like, take care of your kid, you know?

I don't know, it's gotten a little dark. Luke shopping for engagement rings for Kristin. Yeah. That was sweet. Her being like, don't go over 10 grand. Or I'll chop you, this ball's off. And then he still went over 10 grand. And a Kyle Chan cameo.

So is that what it's all about? You guys give us rules to break? Because if we break them, does that prove our love? No, I just thought it was really cute that it was something that he said, but he was like, well, this one's 14. I feel like Kyle Chan was probably like, dude, I don't really have anything 10 grand in here,

but I have this $14,000 ring that she would love. I feel like that's how Kyle Chan works. But even his numbers, he's like, this is a 7.9 carat. And I was like, excuse me. Even Danny being like, isn't it cut? Am I wrong? Did he get the Cs wrong? No. Isn't it color cut clarity?

Carrot, color cut. I don't think it's carrot. I actually don't- Wait. Color cut clarity. I think it's color cut clarity. I think it is actually. Oh, because carrot's spelled with a K.

Either way. Is it? For gold, it's like 24 carats. Either way, I'm pretty sure he got it wrong. It's four Cs. I think it's- What are the three Cs? Color, clarity, and carrot. Carrot is spelled with a C.

Oh. But then why does it say 24K or 14K on your rings? Well, he didn't seem very confident, and he forgot color. It's like carrots with a K. I fucking knew that. Carrot with a C, you eat to make you hair grow. Of course, that doesn't say much about me,

because I have been engaged multiple times. Multiple times, yeah. I have no clue what you're talking about. Oh, C, for a carrot for C refers to weight of gemstones and carrot with a K refers to purity of gold. Gold, yeah, cause it's like how many carrots are gold. But yes, we got another Kyle Chan cameo. That man will be on every spin-off

of the Vanderpump Rules family till the end. Can we talk about his marriage counselor turned personal therapist? spin-off of the Vanderpump Rules family. Good for him. Can we talk about his marriage counselor turned personal therapist? Oh my god. Scream into this pillow. If my therapist ever asked me to, I'd be like, that's the only solution you have to fix my problems. Giving some dumbass metaphor. I'm paying 200 bucks an hour for this. I can do this at home.

He said water your flowers, not your poison ivy. That's what my mom told me to do when I was five. But it's like also, that was like his spin on the like, you have two wolves inside of you to feed. He's like, are you watering your flowers or your poison ivy? And I'm like, wait, girl. I just want to know when he got Chris Dautry

to be his therapist. Honestly, that's where Chris Dautry is. That's where he went. I've been looking for him, truly. I mean, obviously probably not even a real therapist, but like, he should be embarrassed of his client on TV. Where's the accountability? How do you, you know, hey, you're a bad husband.

Or like, what was he saying about his triggers? It was like. That's just projecting when he was like, and it's like, no, you're lying, Jessie. You're like, and I'm not trying to downplay it. Like, yeah, I mean, Michelle cheated on Jessie. I don't know, but I- Wouldn't you?

But like, a kiss? A kiss after, a kiss? We do not- I'm not, a kiss? Yeah, like, relax. There's just a lot of marriages out there that have dealt with some heavy shit. And it's just like- But the way that Jesse treats her is like as if she has had, honestly, it's worse than

that. I tried to compare to her having this whole secret family, but he treats her worse than if she had a secret family. He treats her like she literally killed someone in his family. It's bizarre. It's really bizarre. It's terrifying. His evil plan is working.

Aaron's telling Michelle this episode that if this continues on with Jesse, which I also think is fair, that he can't really do this anymore. And I'm like, if I were dealing with somebody that diabolical on a regular, and I can't hit this person, I can't do anything about it

because it's the father of your child. Like, what are we doing here? Because he's terrorizing them. He's the definition of a gaslighter. For all the people who have misused and watered down the true meaning of the word gaslighter, Jesse Lally is here to save you because now you can call him a gaslighter and be right. Because that's what he's trying to do.

He's trying to poke holes in her, he's trying to drive her crazy, he's trying to like... And make her look like she's the crazy one. His interviews, he's like trying to be crazy, he's trying to like... And make her look like she's the crazy one. His interviews, he's like trying to be like, oh, Michelle has all of this anger and resentment and I have no idea where it comes from because I'm just a good man trying to be a good dad.

It's a very difficult position for her to be in too because it's either accept the fact that he's, you know, going around and talking about her character and then also like trying not to say anything about him because he is the father of her daughter and she will see this. And so it's a very tough spot to be in to like, how do you navigate that?

I mean, that's really tough. I have to say, if I am the daughter, I would love to see my mom talk some shit about my dad if he did this. If like, if he was calling my mom those awful names, like I would be like, Mom, if you don't fight back, if you don't like stand up for yourself. And like I would want to see that side of my mom, not just like one who's like, I just I'm not going to say anything to protect my daughter. I'd like, speak up. You know, like call him a bitch.

Literally call out him for having some gay man send him money. Do it. Do it. Well, Jessie, if you are listening and you object to anything Michelle or we said about you, please come on. He's not going to.

I don't want him. I don't want him. I do. I'll be sick that day, but. That's my day for Janet. It'll be a one, I'll handle it by myself. I got this guys. You guys can have the day off.

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Yeah. And then we'll get to Leila and Macy. Lot happened. What happened? I can't even keep up. What? Well, the big story lines, we finally get to see the women talk about, well, we also had, just in case you guys didn't know,

in case you're living under a rock, we had Jesse and Michaela on Tuesday's episode of Reality Recap. We got into this story with Michaela and Jesse. Well, I obviously heard Jesse's point of view, who's front and center of this story. It's been tough. This decision's been tough, I think, for Nally and I.

Going back and forth with the story. Again, just as an objective fan, I really think it's hypocritical for us to enjoy watching these shows without at least acknowledging, regardless if we like these people or not, or what we think of them as humans, to recognize that they are doing this for our benefit. And there's something to be said about that.

With The Mormon Wives specifically, we've really gotten to know these women. And I've enjoyed on an individual level getting to know all these women. And now that we, season one was great, was heavy, but like compared to season two, season two's a lot darker. Season one, we're talking about Fruity Pebbles. And there's just like,

and it was like, who's head of Mom Talk? Yeah. Will it survive? Will Mom Talk survive? This is like real sides being chosen and real like friendships being broken and like. Yeah, these storylines about Demi going on and we're getting into a territory that's.

It's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable because Demi's is, she's getting harder to defend as a fan and as someone as we've gotten to know personally, it's been a challenge. I was gonna say even that conversation on the contracts or like that Jessie sits on a hair empire, so like Demi says that she should step out of the show

or something. Well, that's what I'm saying. Like after hearing Jessie talk about it on Tuesday, and then watching it now in the episode, boy, Demi really, her versions of these events are very watered down. And the way she seems to justify, why do you deserve more money, Demi me just because Jessie has found success outside of this show that you deem yourself both a fan favorite and therefore. That was wild. And then is making less money outside of mom talk

and the show that you think you're more entitled to more money, I mean that's quite the choice. And Taylor read her to filth with that. She was just like, you would not be here if it's not for me and I've never done that. Oh my God, when Leila tried to have Demuse back, she goes, when I'm done talking, when I'm done talking. And then she talks and she goes, all right, now go.

Was kind of awesome. Truly, Taylor's so badass. She loves her so much. They're all professionals, but she is like, she's like, Leigh on the professional. Well, how many times do you hear people saying, I'm so bad at conflict. I just don't like it. Just so bad at conflict. And like she is the I'm bad at conflict hero.

Yeah. Yeah. She's like, let me show you how to do it. Here's the playbook. Yeah. When I'm done talking. All right. Now go. And then the fact that she like had like the awareness to didn't be like, no, I promise you could talk after I got talking. And now the floor is yours. And then Leila was speechless, be like, no, I promised you could talk after I got talking and now the floor is yours. And then Layla was just speechless, just like, gosh.

I will say it, at Macy's book reveal dinner, whatever, Demi's face the whole time, maybe that's editing, you know? But no, because they were talking at the same time and her face was just like, I could not be happy for you if I tried. It was, yeah, face was just like, I could not be happy for you if I tried. It was, yeah, she was definitely like, it seemed not happy for Macy at all,

which, you know, I guess. And also, I mean, not trying to comfort to me, but it was like also watching these three episodes, her coming for Jen so hard while Jen's going through all of this tough time. I'm just like, she's trying to repair her relationship with Zach, she's finding out she's pregnant in the midst of it all, she's not coming on this trip.

And it's like- Well, to defend to me, I don't think any of the women are aware of what's really going on with Jen. Yeah, Whitney's the one that tells them, and obviously they all have issues with Whitney. And Whitney doesn't even really tell them in a way that's like, makes it feel important. Yeah.

Whitney's like, Jen's sick. She's super sick on the bus. She says that to all of them. And then they get to the house and Macy's like, so question of the weekend, like where's Jen? She's like, so she's pregnant and sick. It's like, well, there's actually a lot more to that he wanted to share.

But I think that's what Jen wanted, though. She told Whitney because Whitney was like, What do you want me? I actually thought when he was being a really good friend, like she stayed with Jen. She was like, I don't feel comfortable leaving until Zach gets back. She helped clean her house a little bit. And then she was like, What do you want me to say to the women? And then Jen told her, just say that I'm sick and pregnant. Totally. But then she sat there and allowed the women to kind Jen told her, just say that I'm sick and pregnant. Because that's the truth.

Totally, but then she sat there and allowed the women to kind of like come at her as she's pregnant and being like, oh my God, a band-aid baby, a band-aid baby. And she could have been like, all right guys, little too far, I don't feel like y'all know enough of the scenario to like talk about Jen this way. Maybe like have a conversation with her.

That is a crazy thing to say. The band-aid baby. The band-aid baby. Hard to listenaid baby about a child, first of all, someone's existence. Right. You're immediately saying that they're not even wanted. You're putting a negative connotation on their birth. Yeah.

That's a crazy thing to say. I'll be honest, that was like, maybe it's just in the season of Life I'm In, but like that, Jen finding out she was pregnant and that reaction was definitely a tough watch for me personally as someone who has been very much vocal about how much I would love to have a baby. And maybe it was just the season of life I'm in where it was very emotional for me. And maybe once I'm a little bit further away from this, I would be able to step back and see,

you know, Jen as obviously her own person who goes through her own things and she's not in a great place in her marriage and she doesn't feel like she's great mentally to be welcoming a baby. And like the prepartum depression, postpartum depression, like all that's real, like that's a real conversation. Obviously jumping to Summer House, like I understand Amanda being like, I'm like just got my mental health okay. I'm not looking to like, that's a,

it's a hormone roller coaster. So I understand Jen's feelings, it definitely was like a hard watch for me. I mean, it's just, yeah. But I just wish like these women were more understanding. Like this is a baby at the end of the day and she's pregnant and they've all had children. Yeah.

They all know what it's like. And for all of them, including Whitney, cause she didn't have Jen's back in that moment, to sit there and kind of like not be happy for her in the slightest, but like kind of talk shit was yucky to see. Not kind of. And then Whitney's seemingly on her redemption tour,

and you come to find out it's all calculated. She's just deliberately being quiet and then trying to get other women to fight, Jessie and Demi. For her to be so honest about that though too being quiet and then trying to get other women to fight. Jessie into me. For her to like be so honest about that though too is kind of like awesome to see. As a fan of the show. Yeah.

She's one of my favorites. I'm kind of a Whitney stan you guys. You guys might have noticed that Whitney is the only one of the member of Mom Talk who has not been on this show. It is not without a constant communication from her team. She's a prickly one. First, we invited her on with the rest of the ladies. Last season, I don't know, it was a lot of back and forth.

I don't know, we finally were just like, we're not gonna do it, we moved on. It was just too much heavy lifting for her demands. And then she wanted a solo appearance of which we weren't willing to give her. And then she's the only one in the group who demanded she see all the episodes so that she could talk about them.

And we were just like, you're just too much work. So we moved on. Maybe we'll have her on the future. I'm still a fan, still just love the. I'm afraid of anyone who slaps the table when arguing. You know, like that conversation with Michaela where Michaela was calm as can be. And she's like, listen, you don't hold yourself accountable.

And she slaps the table and raises her voice. Sisterhood. Oh, sisterhood. I'm out. Sisterhood. That was so funny. I really think that Michaela has found her voice through hating Whitney.

Michaela is my favorite. I had a feeling about her last season, loved her in between seasons. This season, she is shining. She's just like saying it like it is. She's just like, I can be in a group setting with you. I have no interest in a friendship with you. Yeah.

I'm like, Whitney cannot handle it. She's just like, why won't you just be fake and say you'll be my friend? She's like, I'm not. We're coworkers and that's fine. And that's all we're ever gonna be. She hates her so much. Yeah, so much coworkers and that's fine. And that's all we're ever gonna be. She hates her so much. So much.

And it is petty. Yeah. The round table with the gold box and she's just like, will you ever be friends with Whitney? And she's like, no. No. What was her response when she goes, it's not doing it for me, when Whitney,

what did Whitney say or do? Or Whitney asked a question and Micaela goes. No, no, no, no. It was the twerking competition on the bus where she, Whitney's like, I'm gonna win. And she's like, all right, go. And she starts twerking and Michaela goes, it's not doing it for me.

Ah! She, like, I love a hater. Not them putting Michaela's twerk in slow mo. I was like, hear you. I was like, come on. She's, you know, Demi has a lot of thoughts about being the fan favorite, but I think she might be usurped this season by Michaela.

And can I also give Zach his flowers for a second? Oh, I was gonna ask. He's starting to win me over the conversation, even though like I didn't love his reaction to the whole Chippendales thing, but then seeing how he like came to the guys and was just like, I just want to have a respectful conversation and just try to like, let you know that this is how I feel.

I look up to you like he's just so well articulated and like, I don't know. I just don't know why I thought he was such a monster last season. And this season, I was going to ask, do we as crazy as it sounds, do we think that Zach is like, he seems like he is trying to do better. And he seems like he is acknowledging his mistakes and he is trying to show up as a husband for his wife, for his kids. He quit medical school.

You can say what you want that maybe he's, oh, because his wife's making money, fine. But how many people out there like complain that their husbands emascul, because his wife's making money, fine, but how many people out there complain that their husband's emasculated by their wife's success? And again, maybe it's all an act, I don't know. He seems like he is trying to be better. I'm kinda like impressed. He's handling himself so well too,

because every time he tries to sit down and have an honest conversation with somebody, someone's like, well, your wife didn't communicate to you. Well, your wife is lying to you. And he's like, okay, well, I have to trust what my wife says. Yeah, always has her back. Yeah, he's not sitting here being like,

okay, well, if you say so, then fuck her. Like, he's like, all right, well, that's something that I have to communicate with my wife then, because that's not what I was being, what I was told. Yeah, I kind of, I have kind of no notes for Zach this season. I've been pretty impressed, and I give him a lot of credit for the growth we're seeing.

And I actually, if I'm Zach, I also am not a fan of the Chippendales dance. I don't need my husbands that we're not even that close with half naked dancing on you in the middle of a party of a bunch of people we don't know. To call it exposure therapy. Yeah, like, I'm good. Just let him in on the joke.

Right, like, yeah, it doesn't have to be a surprise. That's not a surprise. It's not a surprise. That's not a surprise at all. That's an ambush. Yeah. In the flashback, like Demi and Jessie or whoever was telling Jen about the plan,

like it definitely was different than how it ended up being. Like they literally had Jen sitting directly next to Zach and then they were like grinding on her. And I agree with Zach when he says that what they did was in my opinion, worse than what happened with Chad and Demi. Chase.

Chase, sorry, same thing to me. Chase and Demi. Yeah. Yeah, I mean like, Chase, he might have grazed her. He might have even given a little pat. I think it was like a hip pat. Yeah, like a hip one. That like definitely was uncalled for.

It was inappropriate. It was a finger poke. Definitely inappropriate, yeah. It was a, like definitely was uncalled for. It was inappropriate. It was definitely inappropriate. Yeah, it was a, like, go check your man. Yeah, where's your husband? He was trying to be like funny and cute and swaggy and it wasn't any of the above. And honestly, if I am Demi, I am also being like, let me get my fucking husband on your ass, bitch.

So I see where she's coming from in that aspect because if it was like one of the other husbands, I'd be like, OK, chill. But it's like an ex-husband causing drama, fighting with like yelling at Taylor in the middle of this party. Like, this man's gross. So the fact that she called her husband to like, come get him, I wasn't too mad about. But I do like, yeah, Zach has a great point of being like, how dare you? Like, how is that different? You didn't have my consent for that shit.

You didn't have Jen's consent for that shit. Like. The only difference is that you made me watch. Yeah. Yeah. And also I will say, if I were Jen, would I have come home from that hair appointment being like, Zach, the girls told me they have some idea at Halloween for some Chippendales thing.

I don't know what it is. I don't know the extent. They at Halloween for some Chippendales thing. I don't know what it is. I don't know the extent. They mentioned some sort of Chippendales dancer and Brett and Jordan, like dancing or something. I don't know. Yeah, my read on Jen is, you know, she's as flawed as any other human and maybe she fibs here or there,

but it seems to be the most unmalicious. No ill intent. Yeah, it just, I think, and I kind of feel- Demalish, she's like, she's an embellisher. And I feel like Jessie into me, when it relates to their rivalry with Jen, I just, I feel like they, at least in this moment, in this season, are more confident in their like they, at least in this moment, in this season,

are more confident in their voice, are more confident in themselves. I think they see a less confident person, a wounded patient, and it kind of feels a little icky the way they're kind of- Kicking her when she's down. Kicking her, you know? And like, is she not totally upfront or honest?

I don't know, but things that Jen did find her voice when bringing up Vanderpump Villa. Oh, yes she did. And we do have the Macy and Layla interview coming up. They do get into not necessarily details of what happened, but they better articulate their beliefs, I guess, on what might come out in episode three. It's, they better articulate their beliefs, I guess, on what might come out in episode three, or a lot of the conversations in this episode,

like this accusation that Brett was unfaithful to Demi. And this is just some sort of rumor that came out of nowhere? This is her Macy's Confessions box, sinners, anonymous tip box. It's reality TV gold box. Is the anonymous tips though, is this like an Instagram thing or was this?

This was last season, remember? This is like you keep getting confused or is this the gold box? It's a producer going on Reddit and putting in rumors in the fucking box. No, this is Macy's Sunday Sinners, or Sinners for Sundays. They had it last season when Taylor,

the Dakota rumor came from a Sunday Sinner thing. Oh, yeah. Well, that seems how they get, this seems like a clever a Sunday center thing. Oh, man. Yeah. Well, that seems like a clever way of inserting rumors into the TV show. I'll also say I didn't love the lunch with the three of them, with Taylor, Macy, and Michaela, where Macy's like, oh, I got this confession on my center Sundays. And Taylor goes, oh, is it about me? And she goes, well, there's a lot that are always about you.

Like that was unnecessary. Yeah. But these girls are flying, like strays are flying on a regular. I don't know if I'd say that to my friend. Like, sure, let me give you some anxiety. Yeah, I get a shit ton of like confessions about your life in my Sinner Sunday.

Do you remember how we ended last season? That's what's so crazy about this season is that like we still have Taylor and Dakota and that whole relationship to try to unpack and their crazy lives. And it's kind of like a B story line. At this point, yeah, this new batch of episodes, I was just like, oh, who gives a shit about Sunday dinner?

Yeah. What about the skinny dipping? Did y'all? Hot. Oh my. Next. Oh my. For sure.

Let the record be said that Justin said that, not me. They weren't really skinny dipping. They had underwear on. Dimi was all about it. Of course Mary's like, why did they take their underwear? It definitely wasn't skinny dipping. It was like free boobies. I thought the same thing. I thought the same thing. I was like, they are underwear? It definitely wasn't skinny dipping. It was like free boobies. I thought the same thing.

I thought the same thing. I was like, they are wearing underwear. That's not skinny dipping. No. Yeah, have you seen an episode of Vanderpump rules on Stompsies birthday? That is sexist skinny dipping because that's just called a swimsuit for men. Yeah.

Yeah. This is speedo. Equality. I mean, you can't do it at Cannes, but you can do it on the Secret Lives of Mormon Lives. That's true. Honestly, and like the conversation with Demi and Brett, where

she's like, oh yeah, we're all about to go skinny dipping. He's like, are they still filming? She's like, yeah, we're still filming. He's like, then no you don't. She was like, alright, well I'm gonna finish washing my face. Love you, good night. She's like, I'm not going skinny dipping. And then the girls are like, I cannot believe you would let your husband tell you whether you can go skinny dipping

on national television or not. Yeah, I love how like, any time a husband has an opinion, he's controlling. Right. Right. Which like, maybe he just made Demi realize that there will be like, people, his children. Maybe men.

Maybe his kids. No, no. Maybe like, men behind the cameras, holding the boom boom speakers that may be like, we don't need them to see your boobs. I don't know. And the rest of America wouldn't dare. And the editors when they're putting a blur over your boobs.

Maybe they don't need to see them either. Like, valid. Yeah. Yeah. The things we forget when watching TV. Truly. There are cameras. Honestly, Brett seems like a big protector.

I mean, that's honestly what every time they got naked in Vanderpump, I was like, oh my God, these editors, the cameramen, they're just, I'm just coochies right there. Early seasons of Summer House, they're like, they would literally, I'd be like, I've seen Kyle's ass more than I've seen my own. How often do you look at your own ass?

Not as much, I guess, because I was jarred every time. I was like, oh my God. That's what it looks like. That's not mine. That's what that is. Well, speaking of Demi and Brett, Macy and Layla have a lot of thoughts and opinions on their relationship and so much more, and they are coming up next.

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Thank you, excited to be here. So to see you both, both of you, you look great. Thank you. And congratulations on the pregnancy. Thank you so much. Really? Well first, let's start, how are you feeling? I'm feeling pretty good actually.

I feel like the older you get though, the harder pregnancy is. Cause I'm like, why does this one feel harder than the other two? But we're also like filming a show. So I'm like, maybe that's why we're doing a lot. But overall everything's great. Let's just stay on the pregnancy for now.

I mean, obviously I am curious because just when Natalie got pregnant, like all I cared about like was like, it's my only job is to protect her peace. Like just, you know, no, you know, I, everyone's, you know, if you brought in bad energy, I was like, get the fuck out. Like I didn't give a fuck.

You know? Obviously doing what you ladies do, which I always say this, like I'm so appreciative of you ladies, of the show. It's like, you know, we love reality TV. And if you're a reality TV fan, this is one of the best ones on TV, but it takes a lot.

Out of you. Out of you women. You were so generous with your vulnerability, with your lives, opening up about so many personal things. But obviously that brings a lot of stress. It does. And how do you manage that with the pregnancy? So I feel like, so season two,

I don't know how much it shows, but I know you guys have seen it, we haven't even seen it. But from, I was doing IVF during it, and my whole mood, my mantra for season two was like, I'm going to be at peace because like for me to have this work and like become a successful pregnancy, you have to be so relaxed and stress free during IVF. So I feel like I was, I mean, I haven't seen it, but I feel like I was fairly chill because I was really just trying to protect

my peace all season and my husband was very aware of that. So we were very like in a peaceful environment. Now that I'm pregnant, I'm not at peace, I would say. I feel like a lot more fiery. Layla knows I've already yelled at her once. She scares me a little bit. Did you do IVF for all of your baby? Not my first, it was a different dad. So we have a different situation.

It's kind of personal, so we never get too into it because it's personal to Jacob. So we did my last one, it was IVF, and then this baby's IVF. And we have one more embryo in the freezer. So I feel like I can't really leave a soldier behind. So I feel like we'll probably have at least one more. Cause I feel we're just leaving,

if it was like three in there, I'd be like, it's fine. But like it's just one. So I feel like bad. Personal question. Natalie and I have opened up about miscarriages that she experienced and you know, it's just a lot. And when you're going through that, a back-to-back miscarriage is all of a sudden

your doctor starts saying things like, well, there's always IVF. And obviously we're very privileged if that is something that we had to count on. We were certainly in a position to take advantage of and we feel very lucky. But certainly like Natalie, her, you know, me, I don't know much about it.

Natalie was very quickly like, I really hope I don't have to. But. Nali was very quickly like, I really hope I don't have to. But like for someone who has done it, what can you offer or advice just for anyone who is considering it, just even speaking to Nali, if that's something that we, again, I feel very fortunate to be in a position

to take advantage of it, if it's something that is an option for us. But yeah, what can you offer to the people listening that if that is something that they have to use because traditional methods aren't working for them, what can you say to offer them support, peace, what to look out for, any type of advice? I mean, I would say I went into it really blind

like when I first did it, because I mean, I had a son from a previous relationship., like when I first did it, because I mean, like I had a son from a previous relationship. And so for me, I remember thinking when I got pregnant at 19, I was like, oh my gosh, the worst thing never happened. But I was like, well, at least I'll never be someone that has to do IVF because then of course, like I think I jinxed myself. I don't know what happened.

But anyways, I think for me, the process was, I don't want to like scare anyone, but it was harder than I thought it was going to be going into it. I thought the worst part was like, oh, the shots and the needles because I don't like shots and needles. It makes me squeamish. But for me, I think it's more the mental aspect because the hormones are so intense. And so whenever you do, at least for me, because I've done two rounds now of the egg retrieval, that to me is the worst part because I think that it's more just the mental aspects.

Like your hormones are so out of whack that I feel like they'd be like, I'd go to an appointment, like you have 12 follicles. I'm like, 12? I'm like, I thought I had more than that. Like I'd like freak out, you know? But it's like you get really scared because you just don't know what your results are going to be. And I think because the first time I did IVF, I was expecting to get like 20 eggs. And then I came out of surgery and like you got nine. And I was like, how? Because I'm like, I don't know. I've not been told I have

any issues. So like, I mean, not that it matters, but still. And so then the second time we actually got 17, but I was freaking out because they're like, you have 12 follicles. Like that means somebody should make 12 eggs. And like, it's just like a whole process. I think it's because women go through this and it's like such a financial burden as well. And so I think that's what makes it so intense. Like if this was free and it was no problem, it's like, okay, like we could just do it again. But besides that, it's also like the hormones. And it's like, obviously not like a super healthy process because you're like changing your body and like you put your body almost into menopause at certain parts of the journey. It really screws with your brain, is what I will

say. But besides all the negative, I will say obviously the most amazing miracles come from it. I have my daughter because of IVF, and then I have this baby and one more embryo. I'm so incredibly grateful because it gives people a chance to have kids who maybe either couldn't or maybe they have genetic issues. There's so many reasons why people do it. So I think it's just an amazing thing. So for me, despite all the negatives, it is 100% worth it. And I'm so, so grateful for the process. I'm sure there was a lot, but is there one thing that you can share that Jacob did throughout

that process that made you feel super supported? I think for him, for me, it's because if I just turn to a bitch, if he's just nice to me, I'm like, okay, thank you. Like because like, and I think I'll know it even not being pregnant. I'm like, I know I'm being a bitch. So thank you for like allowing me to do that and like not ever being snappy with me. So for me, it's just like feeling just like loved and supported. Like I feel like Jacob's really good at being like, let's go get your favorite drink. Like let me get you breakfast. Like doing things without asking for me is the biggest thing. Like before he left on this trip here, he woke me up with like breakfast in bed. So like for me,

it's like little things like that where I'm like, that makes me feel so like appreciated and like loved. And like now I don't have to like make breakfast or think about like things that make your life easier. I think in general, like little things that are thoughtful, like getting my favorite drink. I'm like, yes, that made my day so much better. Like, it's the little things, truly. Leila, are those things that Cameron didn't ever do or? No, he was very love-bomby at the beginning of our relationship,

came in very hot and strong. I think he said, I love you to me two weeks and to seeing each other just very from the get-go, just like, I'm going to like overload you with like affection and gifts and things like that. And that's something that I definitely needed at that point in my life. I was very insecure, just kind of going through

a lot mentally, so he was exactly what I needed, and I feel like he knew exactly what to do to kind of snatch me and get me in, so yeah. So obviously a big part of the season was you opening up about orgasms or lack of. There we go. So obviously a big part of the season was you opening up about orgasms or And all jokes aside Listen you you know This is a again one of my favorite reality TV shows of all time and certainly one of the best ones on TV today

Because it's not only funny and dramatic But you you women do talk about like very serious and very relatable issues that women across this country in the world go through. And one of them is just like, often is the case and like in bed, like women can be forgotten about when it comes to pleasure. And then obviously, you know, the Mormon religion can play a role. What is this show brought you in terms of opening your eyes

in terms of like what you are entitled to when it comes to enjoying sex and intimacy and things like that. I think it's definitely a super taboo subject, especially like within our church. I feel like you're taught your whole entire life, do not have sex till you're married. And then magically when you're married,

you're supposed to just enjoy it and like know how to do it and everything like that. And I feel like it's, that's not common. And it's hard to like learn your body too when like there's a lot of shame around it in the church or you're married that you can't have it. And I feel like just me personally, I was ashamed to kind of get to know myself and know what would help me have an orgasm. I just always felt shameful around it and I didn't want to explore and figure out what would get me there. And

yeah, it took a lot to kind of get over that mental hump that finally was able to help me get there. It was just definitely more of like a mental game for me. Cause I feel like I had like the tools to like get there. I felt like I knew what possibly could, but it was just kind of like every time I would do it to myself or like things like that, I always just felt like dirty after almost.

And that's kind of just like the shame that like we have in our church kind of to begin with. So once I finally got past that mental hump, I feel like that's what kind of like helped me. She's never been more relaxed. I know, I know. Truly. Well, you were, I mean, you and Jessie were like closest to Demi, I feel like, first season.

Obviously, there's been a huge rift. We see that Demi is very much on like the outskirts. What happened to your friendship with Demi? I think personally, for me, the behaviors that I saw were just so alarming that I couldn't just kind of turn a blind eye to it. And I try to give a lot of people grace. That's something that I'm very big on. I'm very big on forgiving and giving people second chances.

But for me personally, seeing what she did to Jesse and just kind of honestly how evil it was, I was like, what makes me think that she's not going to go and try to do this to me? And then she did things to Taylor as well. And I just felt like it was a pattern that was repeating itself and I didn't want to be caught on the wrong end of it. So she's like, I'm going to take a step back. I'm not going to surround myself with her anymore. And ultimately, if she wants to come back one day and kind of like share her side of the story and make amends with people, I feel

like I'm open to that. But every conversation I have had with her, unfortunately has ended negative on her end and it's name calling and it's just very mean. And I feel like she kind of shows her true colors in those moments and just, I don't need to surround myself with people like that that talk down to me and make me feel bad about myself. So I think just ultimately, I just don't really have a space for her. When you say what she did with Jessie, are you referring to Jay-Z Styles? Are you referring to the contract disputes? Are you referring to Vanderpump Villa or all of the above? All of the above.

I feel like it was just kind of, I feel like the first thing, the contract thing, I was like, oh, well, Jesse forgave her. And I feel like that's kind of how we all mutually felt that we were like, okay, like Jesse and them are good. So like, that's fine, we'll let it pass. And then the hair thing came up and I was like, oh, okay, that's a little weird.

And then now the Vanderpump thing came and I was like, it's just, it's repeating itself. And I feel like at this point, if we were to just keep turning a blind eye, I feel like that would be kind of dumb of us almost. I feel like at some point you kind of need to wake up and see like the warnings and kind of take a step back. I think something, and we talked about this with Jessie and Michaela is that I think, you know,

as a fan of the show and as viewers, I think we kind of all just assume that the group of you were just kind of this tight group of friends that have been a tight group of friends for years. And that doesn't seem to be the case, right? Like some of you were, like you and Michaela were friends, you and you, Michaela and Whitney were like a group. And then it seemed like Demi kind of almost got brought in

solo and you all, all of you women kind of got to know her through this show, is that accurate? What I would say is that, so originally when the show was like a thing, we were about to film the pilot, Demi started hitting me and Michaela up and she was like wanting to hang out. And so we're like, okay, like we hung out a couple of times at like one of our friend's house, went swimming,

all that stuff. And she kept being like, you guys gotta get me on that show. And so I remember me and Michaela being a little skeptical for at first being like, well, what are you willing to do to get on it? Like, why do you want to be on it so bad? Cause me and Michaela were kind of skeptical of even going on the show.

We're like, I don't know if I even want to go on it. So why do you want it so bad? And so I think we were always had our guard up a little bit with her. But like, I would say like we were still pretty close. And I think me and Michaela, to me, Jesse even got closer, like season two and stuff. And behind the scenes, we're hanging out all the time. Like I invited to me to my birthday in February. She ended up coming because I told her, I'm like, Jessie's gonna be there, and Taylor probably.

So, just so you know. And she opted out, which was completely fine. But I think, yeah, I don't feel like she was ever just on an island. I feel like she was brought in, and we all accepted her and loved her fairly quick. That's the thing, it's just like season one, she seemed to really be welcomed.

So much so that I thought you guys had been friends for years. I guess the reason why I asked that question, and I think the answer is, it's probably obvious, you guys seem as shocked as I think us fans are in terms of your opinion of, how your opinion of Demi has changed from getting to know her originally to now.

I think we've all been a little bit shocked, to be honest, and I think things that we've heard and seen, like even I was like, I need to see her originally to now. Yeah, I think we've all been a little bit shocked, to be honest, and I think things that we've heard and seen, like even I was like, I need to see her seeds because I'm having a hard time comprehending that this is actually happening. And again, I think it's because we loved her, she's so fun and hilarious and things like that, but then you're seeing this kind of mean girl behavior

where I'm like, I mean, I think we saw glimpses of it, but she brushes it off a lot of humor. And it's like, and I love a good humor. I don't get offended very easily, so it never has bothered me. But I think this time it's different because it's stuff that it is like, it's real life. Kind of like career ruining for people,

but she's just okay doing it. So I think it's just kind of different this time. Yeah, I'm not sure what you women can say, but I have to ask because we have interviewed Miranda, we've interviewed Demi and Brett. We interviewed Miranda the morning when Jesse and Demi, I think you were in the comments with Marciano's post at the Hulu's Get Real event. So we asked Miranda about it and obviously we wanted to be very delicate because that

was after we got a chance to interview Demi and Brett and Demi opened up about these accusations, these claims which obviously we took very seriously. So I was a bit taken back and surprised by Jesse's comments online and then Miranda who really didn't have any, was quick to say that she questioned me. And as we said with Jessie and Michaela, like we wanna believe victims. You know, people can be victims

and it can look all different sorts of ways. You know, a lot of people like to poke holes in people's stories and things like that. But it's been shocking to me that everyone I've talked to of your group and people on the outside of the group, but close to the group, everyone seems to be questioning her story and her intentions. And I would just love to hear what you women think.

I mean, it's a really difficult situation. And to be in this situation to begin with, I personally am a victim of sexual assault and domestic violence. So like for me, I'm someone who believes like all women Like you tell me this happened. I'm gonna believe you so that is obviously no question in my mind I think in this situation is very complicated because I mean like we've heard what happened in the past and of course We all supported to me and believed her and everything like that. I'm not saying we don't I'm just saying like there has been things and without getting too deep into it that don't add up, that aren't logical,

that don't make sense. And I get that not everyone handles the situation similarly. Me myself, I never reported because I was in a situation where I was blackmailed. So I literally couldn't. But this situation is very complicated because obviously we always want to support. But when there's things happening that maybe don't make sense or that just aren't logical to anyone. You have to kind of question because there's also times in certain situations where the men takes the hit for something and they didn't do anything. And I'm not saying that's the case here. I'm just saying that that happens as well. And so I think if you just completely turn a blind

eye and being like, no, then... And I mean, it's so complicated because I don't want to get too deep in it, but when the story changes constantly to it's a little confusing. I think that's why a lot of us are confused because this story has changed a lot. You know, you were there for Vanderpump Villa. What are your thoughts on the situation? I think, yeah, ultimately, when it comes down to it, I think the word to just describe it is confused. I think you should always believe a victim. If someone's coming forward and they're claiming that they were assaulted, you should always believe them.

But I think for me, I'm a very logically driven human, and I feel like I need factual-based things to prove what's happening in the situation. And I feel like right now there's just a lot of he said, she said. And yeah, just like you said, I was there in the villa. And there definitely was some things that were happening that were interesting for a married woman to be participating in, I think personally. But ultimately when it comes down to it, I didn't see what she's claiming

and I didn't see those things happen. So I can't speak on something that I didn't see. What was y'all's reaction to her quote unquote plan for the finale of season one? Wait, which plan? Sorry. With Dakota. Oh, very interesting. I think that was, we were all very confused on why that even went into her head as something that would be okay on Bret's end, on Dakota's end, on Taylor's end, on her end. It was just very interesting. And I think when it was brought up in season two,

I'm assuming you see that where it's brought up towards the end. Was that brought up? Was it? Jessie and Michaela just told us about it. Okay, okay. So maybe it's not in season two, because it was talked to... It's not in season two. Okay, well, it was talked about, and basically, when it was talked about, Taylor brought up it being like,

and that was weird that you wanted to do that. And then, um, Demi was like, it's basically saying it wasn't weird. She's like, and you guys can back me up on that. And me and Jesse were like, mm, I did think it was a little weird. Like, I wouldn't want that perception, to be honest, as a married woman, to be like,

let me fake this, like, affair. Like, wouldn't want that perception to be honest as a married woman to be like, let me fake this like a fair. Like that would never be something I would wanna do. So it is interesting. Laila, I don't know what you can say, but I have heard rumors. Vanderpump Villa is out. We can watch it. I have been told there's a lot that didn't make

the cutting room floor, so to speak. When you watch it back, were you frustrated or surprised there were certain things not in it? Definitely surprised. That conversation that Marciano and Demi had especially, that was like a two and a half hour long conversation that everyone in the castle that day was like, they're still talking.

Like that's interesting. We would kind of like peek in and out and they're still talking, they're still talking. And that conversation got very, very, very dwindled down. And then there's side conversations that they would have as well too, that where he would make little weird comments towards her and then like she wouldn't necessarily like shut them down

and like I was present for them. So like I can say that those were happening and none of those were shown too. So I just think there's definitely a lot of moments that were not shown. We interviewed Demi and Brett and he seems incredibly supportive. They seemed really connected.

What's your opinion of Brett? Do you think he is- He's gonna poke my face and it's just like completely gone. Do you think he is- I'm trying hard. Do you think they are aligned with Demi's behavior or do you think he is a supportive husband

who's also kind of being played? I feel like we talk about this in our friend groups so much right now because we're like, we don't even know. Like I don't know what it would be because I feel like if you've seen some of the things that have been said between Demi and Marciano, I don't know how you can play along with that. I would never wanna see my husband texting certain things

or saying certain things and being okay with that. So like part of me thinks like, he must not know. But at the same time, I'm like, well, maybe he does and he's just being supportive and like they're moving on with a certain narrative to protect their marriage. I really don't know. Like whatever they choose, that's up to them. Like it's none of our business what they're doing in their marriage. Like, and that's completely fine. I think it is confusing though. Cause I'm like, what's going on? And I think at the end of the day, with that situation, Jordan's tried to present him things

and say, like, hey, like, this happened, and he chose to, like, ignore it. So I think at the end of the day, like, we can show him all these things, and if he chooses to stay, then that's up to him. Like, it's his marriage, that's his wife. If he chooses to, like, ignore that behavior, I would never personally, if I was married

and I've seen that behavior from my spouse, but, I mean, like mean like it's their own. Do you think she will return for season three? Do you think she will want? Okay, it's like, well, and I want just to clarify Natalie's question. When we talk to them, especially Brett, and pretty much her as well,

we're like talking as if they were done. Jesse and Michaela don't think she is. Again, like contracts aside, obviously you're not allowed to say whether she is or isn't, but I just want your opinion on whether she will want to return regardless if she is either allowed or welcomed back. Do you think she will try to return at some point?

I think I'm shocked personally that she hasn't come back already. I thought her return, I think she will come back, yes. And I thought her return honestly was gonna happen sooner than this. So I'm kind of shocked already that she hasn't come back yet. I just think personally, for me, I don't think I could go on with the accusations that are being made without clearing my name. So I think at this point, she has to come back, I feel like.

I think if she doesn't come back for season three, then maybe she takes a skip on that and then goes to season four, because I'm like, as it is, if you're not getting paid and you're being talked about probably the most. So I mean, might as well come clear your name a list. I would want to. I would want to, yeah. Macy, where do you stand with Whitney these days?

Uh... We're not close friends by any means. I would say we're cordial, but we're not, I'm not entertaining like a friendship there any longer. Were you as confused as I was as a viewer when you went to her to try to get her to reflect on not showing up to your, was it your birthday party? My baby mama launch party. Congratulations by the way.

Thank you. I love everything you're doing. Whitney's not stupid. Like she might be a lot of things, but she's not stupid. She's a very, I think intelligent person, but why does she think she can get away with playing so dumb in some of these moments? I mean, you and me both, I question that as well.

I'm like, are you just really like not self-aware? Because I feel like we've had so many conversations, like even off camera. And I think you see that on camera where like I was the one who wrote the truth box confession saying, do you regret not going to Macy's event? Mainly because I was going to help clear her name in a way, because we had a conversation a month prior talking about it. And we've had multiple conversations where I was like saying like, well, you can still regret not coming even if you weren't in the place because I'm like, I feel like I would regret not supporting my friends.

I'm like, so if you look up regret, like you can regret not coming, but still like being like I wasn't in the place mentally and I wish I was. So I regret that, but that sucks. And she told me on the phone, she's like, well, maybe I have to look up what regret means. And so she Googles it on the phone and she's like, oh, okay, I guess I do regret that. And then we do the truth box and she's like, no, I don't. I'm like, am I like losing my mind?

So I'm like, I'm actually like so confused. And then, yeah, and again, like, I think we have other conversations on the show where I'm just like, let's just agree to disagree. And it's like not good enough for her. And she like wants to keep pushing and be like, well, I want like, again, I just, it was too exhausting.

I think for me with Whitney, I wish her the best and I'm fine to be cordial and friendly, but I feel like I was always in a friendship test where even towards the end of season two, she texted me when we were done rapping being like, you purposely didn't sit next to me. And then you said this. And I'm like, wait, like I'm too exhausted.

I can't be constantly like watching my back being like, oh, is she gonna think I looked at her funny today? Like, you know what I mean? Cause it's exhausting. And I was tired. Like season one, like it was so tiring dealing with the emotional stress, like of being her friend. Like I loved her and I wanted to support her,

but even off camera, I'm dealing with everything and being like, hey, like, how can I support you? I'm sending her crumble cookies. I'm trying to be a great friend to her. And then it's like season one finished and it was like ghost town. I still reached out to her, never usually got responses. And then all of a sudden once the show's about to come out,

it's almost like she needed me as an ally or she was about to go on a podcast and she accommodated before and be like, best friends with me. So it almost seemed like it was like a plan in a way to be like have me on her side as an ally. And I didn't feel like I realized these things until later where I was like, actually, she honestly never really

was a great friend to me. And so I think once I realized that over time, then I was like, I just I'm good to be friendly, cordial, I wish you the best, but I can't put my time and effort into this. Because I know Michaela probably has very strong feelings and And she, even season two, she'd be like, not wanting to be friends with her. And I'm like, I am a type of person

that I have to decide for myself. I have to figure it out for myself. And so I'm not going to just not be friends with someone because you don't like her, you know? So, but over time I realized, I'm like, wait, actually, she never really was a great friend to me. And it just took me a while to realize that. Laila, what do you make of Nami and Whitney's

newfound friendship? Very convenient. I think would be a great word to use. I think for the longest amount of time, they were like enemies, basically. Like Demi, the amount of shit she talked on Whitney was astronomical. I mean, she does it to a lot of people, but it was pretty heavy in the way that she treated her too. Like, I think I would use the word like bullying.

So to now have them very close and kind of like together, I feel like it's because they kind of don't necessarily have anyone else in the group at the moment. And again, that's on their end. If they want to come forward and kind of like take full accountability for like everything else aside on Demise's end, if they want to take accountability

for just like not being bestest of friends, and like maybe they would have other people in the group that they could lean on. And I feel like it would be very telling if they started to like kind of like drift apart after that could lean on, and I feel like it would be very telling if they started to like, kind of like drift apart after that. But yeah, I just feel like it's very convenient. They became friends because they had a common enemy, which was Taylor.

Demi is beefing with Taylor, and all of a sudden she becomes friends with Whitney, who is fine with Taylor at that moment, but then I think as soon as Whitney has a chance to not like Taylor again, it's like, okay. So that's what it seemed like happened from all of our perspectives. But I mean, I guess, whatever, I guess.

You and Jacob seem like a really healthy and wonderful couple. He seems like a really stand up guy. What do you guys make, I guess, just of the rest of the couples? Jen and Zach, I mean, I will say I've, you know, I asked Jesse and Michaela, at least Jen and Zach's interactions, I've been really impressed with Zach. He seems like he at least is trying to take accountability

and make some changes. I don't know if that's, you know, for TV or authentic. I look forward to like learning and getting to know him more. But I'm just generally curious about like, when you and Jacob get together and you're sitting, you know, off camera, like what do you make of just some curious about like when you and Jacob get together

and you're sitting off camera, like what do you make of just some of these other relationships like Dakota and Taylor and Jen and Zach, specifically I guess those two and just how toxic they seem? I mean, I definitely have more opinions than Jacob. I feel like Jacob's such an easy, relaxed guy. He's like, well, you know, they're trying, like, you know, like, he's so nice. I feel like he'll

never say anything. But I'll come to him and being like, oh, yeah, and then so and so said this and Zach did this. And I think, yeah, I know, I feel like the more I film and hear more with these couples, I'm like, just grateful. And for my relationship, I'm like, wow, I got really lucky. But also, I went through the ringer to find my husband too. I was in an abusive relationship and then I lost my son's father. So I feel like for me, I'm like, I deserve him because I feel like I went through a lot to get to this man. And I think when you have toxic relationships in the past, you know that I never want this again. And so I think that's how I found Jacob. He's probably the most normal one. So I do feel very

grateful when I see these couples. Of course, Taylor and Dakota, I mean, it's no, it's no, I'm not shy about how I feel about that one for sure. And I think I get shit because the people are like, why don't you go tell Jen this too? And I'm like, well, I'm like, I can only handle one at a time, to be honest. And at this rate, like they're married, they're working on it.

I'm like, Taylor and Dakota aren't married. I feel like it's a little different where it's like, you don't have that commitment yet to where I'm as concerned, I guess, but not a huge fan of Dakota, and I'll be completely honest, he knows that. Not at all, actually. Like the way that Mckay feels about Whitney is probably how I feel about Dakota.

I have that same energy. Say more. Because like I, watching it back, and clearly he's not a perfect person, no one is. But when I watch it, like I'm always looking for ways to try to have empathy with people. Like, you know, it's just like, I am too, I'm an empath for sure.

I mean, you are seeming to be the clear, the most forgiving person, which is why I'm just kind of very fascinated by your opinion. But yeah, I see a hurt man who's really, you've been through a lot, but why do you have such a strong point of view about Dakota?

I think for one, he triggers me. He reminds me a lot of my abusive ex-boyfriend. He does a lot of the same things. And I used to, I think in season one, I was like, I'm not saying you're that person, because I was trying to get in the benefit of the doubt. And then over time, I'm like, mm, he is that person. And I think he can be a good person,

but him with Taylor, he's not a good person. And I just don't think they're good for each other in general, but there's a lot more that happens behind closed doors that you won't even see on the show that I know. And so for me me knowing those things, of course I'm gonna ride for my friend and like be protective of my friend because I've also been through a similar situation.

So I'm hearing the similarities and I'm like, oh, like it like irks me to my core. And I just wanna help. And unfortunately, you know, he can't tell Taylor what to do obviously. Like she's gonna do probably the opposite of what your advice is. But I think it's just hard to watch, especially to see your friend get hurt over and over again and then still go back and you're like, what are you doing?

Like it is like so frustrating. There's a point in time where I almost had to step back and be like, do what you want. I can't even, I just can't watch because it was like, again, I think he just triggers me because he reminds me a lot of my ex, but for good reason, because he is a lot like him. And he sabotages things. I'm like, why do you think Taylor didn't show up today? Of course, it's always him behind the scenes sabotaging things. It's- So I should blame Dakota. A thousand percent. A thousand percent.

It's like anytime Taylor has a big event coming up last year for press, she almost- New York press. New York press, the press in LA, she almost didn't show up because he purposely gets in fights with her, sabotages things, she's crying, she doesn't wanna go do press. fights with her, sabotages things. She's crying. She doesn't want to go do press.

He sabotages all the exciting things. Like, you know, I mean, like if your wife had a great opportunity coming up, you wouldn't be like, let me start a fight right before she leaves. Right. Like, even if you were mad at her, something was going on. You'd probably be like, we'll save it for later. I want them to succeed. I want them to be their best. He doesn't. And I think it's almost like a like a competition almost. Like, I think he's so insecure that he has to bring her down

to his level, to be honest. And it's hard because this is exactly how I feel. So I'm just saying it, but then we do have to sometimes film in group settings and he's a very nice, likable guy. And I genuinely get along with him. So it's almost conflicting to me sometimes because I'm like, oh, like why are you the way you are behind closed doors?

Like I wish you were like this person to the front, like all the time. Do you feel like he like performs you the way you are behind closed doors? Like, I wish you were like this person to the front, like all the time. Do you feel like he like performs for the cameras? Oh, a hundred percent. I always say that he's a wolf in sheep's clothing and I stand by that, a hundred percent. Well, we touched on it in a little bit in the beginning,

but Leila, you had a boyfriend. He did. All season two. Yes. And now he's dead. And now, well now he's like, he is. No, sorry. Well, now, well. He's not with us. He's not with you now he's not with us.

He's not with us. He's not with you. No, not with me. What happened in that relationship? Honestly, it was a very short relationship. We were together for maybe three months. And like I said, he came in very strong and hot from the beginning.

And we talked about like marriage and like engagement in a very short amount of time frame, which was pretty crazy, like looking back. But again, I think he saw how vulnerable I was and he knew exactly what to say to me. And I feel like me too, being a single mom, that's something that like I long for is like to have a complete family and to like have a partner to come home to at night, especially in this environment when I see so many happy couples. I want that so badly for myself. And I think he knew exactly what to say to like snatch me in. And then we ended up not working out

because he felt like morally we didn't align, which he's very contradictory in some ways that like, he said that he wanted to be like a more active member of the church. And when we were together, he told that to me and I was like, okay, well, this is something that's really important to him. So I'm gonna try to like be more active for him.

So we would go to church together and then five minutes end us being at home. He's trying to rip my clothes off and have sex with me. So it's just like, it's the double standard that like I hate and I do not appreciate. And then he also didn't like the show, which was interesting because he knew about the show on our first date. He didn't like me modeling, but I feel like that's kind of like an insecurity thing, so I think you showed up to film. Yeah.

Yeah. He was on the show multiple times as you guys saw. So it's just, it's very interesting that like, he said those things once we were breaking up. I personally, I can't say completely, cause like, I don't know what his intentions were, like talking to me at all, but I honestly, looking back, I feel pretty used.

I feel like he kind of came in, he got his screen time, and then he dipped when he felt like he got enough. Do you feel like he kind of tried to make you feel like safe and comfortable by being like, I don't like this show. I don't like, but then would be on it and obviously like have set conversations on it and stuff. Yeah, exactly. I feel like it was kind of maybe a way to make him not look like he used me and

be like, oh, well, I don't really, I don't like the show. Like, I don't know if I want this a part of my life for the rest of my life, even though multiple times I've told him, like, I don't know how long I want this in my life. Like, I would voice that to him all the time. Like, you know, like, we're on season three right now, but like, who knows?

Like, maybe like at season five, like, I feel like I've reached my limit and I'm gonna walk away from the show. Like, I just don't know what the future holds for me. So I feel like him holding that kind of above me and being like, I don't know if like, I want this part of my life. I'm like, okay, that's like interesting

because again, it wasn't a red flag when you showed up to filming all the time. But also she was way out of his league. Like I was confused. Yeah, I honestly thought you were way too ugly for you. Oh, you guys, I'm like, let me be the matchmaker. Can I find their spouses? Because I'm like, what's going on?

I'm not opposed at this point. I mean, this motherfucker better be really funny. No, like actually, right? Who else do you feel that way about in the group? I'm like, who's single? Well, I mean, no one has like, is dating anyone. Obviously like I have choice feelings about Dakota. So I'm like, you could get better obviously,

but like you're the only other one. Cause like Miranda's not dating anyone, right? No. What about Jen and Zach? Jen and Zach, I mean, it's hard to say. Cracks of knuckles. I'm like, anyways. What about Jessie and Jordan? Jen and Zach, I mean, it's hard to say. Come on, like, anyways. What about Jesse and Jordan? Jesse and Jordan?

Do you think she's, like, way out of his league? Oh, absolutely. I mean, yeah, 100%. Well, speaking of that, just a broader question for both of you, and I think you kind of spoken out with Dakota and your ex as well, but there seems to be some kind of theme. I think this is a theme with society in general.

It seems even more pronounced when it comes to more conservative communities like the Mormon community. I was raised very Catholic, kind of Christian conservative, which I think there's a lot of good that comes from those communities. But there's a theme, especially with the men, when it comes to successful women and very confident women, that there seems to be this theme of men

trying to put their partners down. Do you notice that? Because they're insecure. Yeah, exactly. And I think, to me, when I look at it, I think it's all the way you're raised. And I mean, I always say being from California is different. And I think it's more traditional in Utah,

where it's like very traditional values. Granted, like my mom didn't work, my dad did, but they were always like equals. And I think in certain relationships, you see with like Jen and Zach, not to like talk about theirs, but like, I think that was an issue for him. Like, and it's intimidating.

I think it's intimidating for Jordan to see how successful Jesse is. And sometimes these men, when they're intimidated, they try to bring their partner down so that they feel more of an equal, so that their partner wants them still. Cause like, well, if they get too successful, they might leave. Like I think it's an insecurity thing. Whereas like, I'm just so against that. And I think my husband knows that. Like he is so supportive in my situation. It's like, if anything, he's like, how can I help make you more successful? And I'm like, I'm not saying that's how it should be,

but I'm like, your partner should be supporting you. And if my husband wanted to have his own career too and do his own thing, I am fully supportive of that. But I do think it's interesting seeing these men try it. I like, I have a weird thing with toxic men. As you can see, I'm like, these men. But I get it, like it hurts me though. It's an appropriate thing, you know,

because you've been affected by them. It pisses me off. Like I'm like, these men are just like not supportive and it's just not okay. I think it's just disgusting to be honest. And I think if you're gonna be in a relationship, you should hopefully have a spouse that supports you, your career and your dreams. And if you don't have that, then leave.

Leila, two part question. You came on season one, a little bit more of the quiet one, a little more dem of the quiet one, a little more demure. Season two, you really seem to find your voice, being willing to do everything from exploring orgasms to smoking a vagina blunt. Yes, I'm in there!

Oh my God, I'm so happy. Honestly, I loved it. I thought it was great. I mean, it just, fact, honestly, I loved it. I thought it was great. I mean, it just, Thank you. Listen, we're all human. Like, you had a moment of just like,

saying stuff awkward. I had a fun night. You're allowed, you are, getting to know your story more and more, you are more than allowed to shake it up a little bit. But I wanna know, and obviously season two ended with an absolute bomb drop of you getting Marciano to spill some tea.

Not sure what's true, what's not. But first part question is, do you feel like this show has made you feel more empowered, more confident in yourself despite it being a show that includes a lot of drama and toxicity and things like that? But do you feel like it's made you a stronger woman? And two, what do you make of how season two ended? And again, I know we have season three and I'm gonna respect that we are gonna preserve that

as well, but what can you share about that moment that season two ended on? And like, I guess how shocked or not shocked were you? Yeah, for the first question, I think for me personally, just this show has given me a lot of opportunities in my life that's kind of like changed my life. Like being able to be a single mom and provide my children a really good life

is something that a lot of women stay in relationships for because they can't do that. So it's something that I'm very grateful for and I think that's why I've become more confident because I'm like, I'm doing the damn thing and I'm doing it on my own too, which I'm just really proud of myself because truthfully, that's something that for a long time is why I stayed

in my marriage so long is because I didn't know if I could do it. And then the show came into the picture and I was like, wait, like, there's a chance that I could do this on my own. And that's what kind of like gave me the confidence to leave. And season one, that's when I was in the process of my divorce and like still like kind of in the depths of that. And that wasn't shown, obviously, in season one. But I was struggling a lot mentally season one for sure.

And I just wasn't able to show up for myself mentally. So I wasn't really able to show up when we were doing this experience, but season two, I'm finally like in a good place and I feel like I've just become just a happier person. I'm kind of getting back to like who Layla is. Um, and then your second question, I was shocked, very, very shocked. I think it was a really hard thing to hear because I just, in that moment, it was, I didn't know what to believe. Like, I'm hearing this man that I don't even know say something about one of my best friends. That was hard to hear. And yeah, I just think shocked is the right word to use. It was definitely a hard day for me to hear that. What do you think of Marciano?

I think he's a scummy person, personally. I think, I think he's trying to do the right thing now, which is good. But I think his intentions of what he was doing behind the scenes is very icky and just messing with married women too in general. Which is weird. Women is married, leave her the hell alone. I just think it's so gross to even kind of like venture into that, but yeah. I think it comes from a place of insecurity.

Yeah, for sure. Again, not sure what you can share. Obviously season two ended with an accusation about Jesse's behavior. We're flocking with Jesse. She promises we're going to get to the bottom of it, season three, so we'll hold her to it. But you went there to get answers about him and Demi.

Is there more to that story of him and Demi? Or is it just about him and Jesse at this point? At that point, when I did meet with him that day, he swept everything under the rug with me. So it was, I didn't find anything out at that day meeting him. He was just kind of like, nothing happened, nothing happened, and then kind of reverted

the whole entire conversation to Jesse. So yeah, I did go there that day with the intentions to kind of figure out what actually happened in Italy and he didn't give me that. What do you think there is more? I do. Yeah. I do. Is there any ounce of you that has sympathy for Demi? I think that this is a very hard situation for sure. This world is just really hard to

navigate. And I think we're all human. And at the end of the day, we fuck up and we make mistakes. But I think right now what's hard for me is that she's seeing how it's affecting people and affecting people that she loved. It doesn't matter how she feels about Jesse now. At one point in your life, you really love Jesse and she was one of your really good friends. And I think for me, it's hard to, like, kind of feel sympathy when, like, she's seeing how badly it's hurting Jesse

and, like, there hasn't been, like, an attempt to, like, reach out or, like, try to, like, just see if she's doing okay. But I do feel bad. I just feel like this is hard for sure to have this all broadcasted to the world too. Cause like normally when people make mistakes in life, it's not being shown to millions of people all over the world.

And it's definitely an isolating experience that like when you fuck up, it's public. But yeah. If she were to reach out to you while the show is airing, while she's getting opinions, would you be there for her? Or do you need that space? I think I'm willing to hear her out for sure. I'm never going to just be like, if you don't talk to me,

but I definitely would see how she handles that conversation and kind of takes accountability and doesn't deflect. I feel like that's something that this group kind of does a lot is when we're in the hot seat, we kind of start like pointing fingers towards everyone else and they're like, well, you did this and you't deflect. I feel like that's something that this group kind of does a lot is when we're in the hot seat, we kind of start like pointing fingers towards everyone else and they're like, well, you did this and you did this. And I'm like, okay, like stop, take accountability for what I'm coming to you for right now.

Don't come at me and like try to say things about me right now, this isn't about me. So I think if she's able to like take accountability and kind of like be like, yeah, I fucked up, then like I'd be willing to hear her out. I'd love to have you both answer. Do each of you think that Demi and Brett's relationship will last?

It's hard to say because I feel like I don't know how deep their relationship lies. On social media, you would think it's perfect, but as we know from many other couples, that social media is not a reflection of how your relationship really is. I don't want to say yes or no. I would give it a maybe.

Give me, does she got a, I would say yes. I'll say yes for now. Leila give it a maybe. Give me, does she got it? I would say yes. I'll say yes for now. Leila? Yeah, what do you think Leila? What do you think? Hot take, no. Okay.

I think this world's unfortunately my, the way that she's operating with the things, I think this world might break them. Okay, we played a fun game with Jessie and Michaela last episode and we're gonna play the same thing. It's Mormon Wives Superlatives. And so just tell us what you think. You're welcome to nominate yourselves

or anyone else in the group. Who do y'all think is the most delusional? Whitney. Whitney. Who is most likely to win an Oscar? Well, I think Whitney's the only one who wants to be an actress, right? She's damn good at acting, so Whitney. So I guess Whitney.

Who is most likely to use a beauty filter on their photos? To me. Yeah? You guys seem to be pretty in sync. Most likely to sneak in a fart and blame someone else. Sneak it. Me. No, I wouldn't sneak it though, you know me. I should've balanced it. I think more of the emphasis is blaming someone else. Sneak it. May see. No, I wouldn't sneak it though.

You know me, I announce it. I think more of the emphasis is blaming someone else. Blaming someone else. Oh, it's not me or Mikaela, cause I feel like we announce it if it ever happens. So. Jessie maybe? Like maybe you actually.

She's like, how quiet over there. I feel like it would actually be you. Oh, no, I own that chat. I feel like if you see, it's like I no, I don't want that chat. I feel like if you see it's like all sneaky. No, not me. No. I'm just thinking about it. Who is most likely to steal a baby's name?

I'm trying to think of who we have on our cast. I'm like, who is that? Not Miranda, I feel like she was like, maybe Jessie. Jessie. I could see it being Jessie. Worst dressed. Whitney.

Best dressed. Miranda. Me. Yeah, you're Miranda. Most likely. What about worst dressed? Oh, yeah, she's trying to hide, not do that. It's two. She's like, you.

I'm like, it's two. Taylor or Whitney. Okay. Who's most likely to have lied this season? Probably Demi. Demi, yeah. Now back to worst dressed, do you think Taylor puts as much effort into her wardrobe as Whitney?

No, Taylor's just comfy. She's a comfy girl, but I think sometimes we'll like show up to things and like she comes in sweats and like everyone else is in jeans. I think that's what I mean. Am I accurate to assume that Whitney puts a ton of effort into her wardrobe? Yeah, and in the wrong places.

I could say that. I think she tries to do funky things to be different Yeah, I'm being honest. I mean if her goal is different. She's crushing it. No, I know exactly So I guess it's most likely to get canceled I Mean I'm just gonna say Jesse because she's Going through things Yes, going through things. Okay.

Yeah. Love her, love you. Love you, sorry. Love you, Jessie, sorry. More than Damia. Well, I would say, I would probably say Damia, honestly, but like, I just think of the situation right now, I would say Jessie.

Maybe next season, season three, it would be Damia. Most unreliable. Taylor. Taylor. Or Jen. Yeah, it's either of the two. I just forget about her, she's just over there. Yeah, same, okay.

Most reliable. Macy or Jessie. Yeah, if I say me. Yeah, me's either the two. Just forget about her, she's just over there. Yeah, same, okay. Most reliable. Macy or Jessie? Yeah, I was about to say me. Okay. Yeah, me or Jessie. Those answers surprise you, or are they similar to Jessie? Honestly, the majority of them are similar. Mostly they pick their nose in public.

Whitney. Yeah, Whitney. That girl rips ass in public all the time too. She did, she's a farter. She's a farter. She is a farter. She's farty. Well, ladies, it's always great to catch up with you.

Thank you for such an amazing season two. I hope to see more of you in the future. Good luck the rest of the way. And just again, just thank you for being who you guys are, as vulnerable as you are, especially, I mean, both of you. You guys really opened up the season and it was really great to see and get to see more of you, especially you, Leila, and wish you all nothing but the best.

Thank you. Thank you guys. Thank you so much. Thank you guys so much for listening. Thank you to our guests, Leila and Macy, for joining us. We will be back next week for another Jam-Pack Explosive Week. We have an incredible going deeper with, I'll say,

two members of the cast of secret lives of Mormon wives a couple and a lot to unpack there excited for you guys to listen to that one it's going to be a crazy week we're excited to bring it to you we'll see you then bye you