The Viall Files - E945 – Going Deeper with Dakota Mortensen

Episode Date: June 4, 2025

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper edition.  Hulu’s Secret Lives of Mormon Wives Season 3 is currently filming, and boy is the drama giving. Is Dakota still with Taylor? What did he actually do? And, why did the relationship crumble? Dakota joins for a very honest and transparent interview, where he dives into his history of rehabilitation and journey to finding love. “I’m not responsible for Zac and how he acted" Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod  Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  Are you struggling with any sort of dating, relationship, or life dilemma? Do you want all the answers? Email [e-mail] with your question in the subject line to express interest in appearing on the show!  To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   Thank You to Our Sponsors: Brooklinen - Shop award-winners and fan-faves in-store or online at https://brooklinen.com  Skylight Frame - Right now, Skylight is offering our listeners $30 off their 15 inch Calendars by going to https://skylightcal.com/viall  Car Gurus - Buy or sell your next car today with Car Gurus at https://cargurus.com  True Classic - You can grab them at Target, Costco, or head to https://trueclassic.com/viall and get hooked up today Pura - Right now, get 20% off Car ProTM and all car fragrances with code CAR20 —but only for a limited time. Visit https://pura.com and upgrade your summer drive today. Timestamps: (00:00) - Intro (02:43) - Backstory and Addiction (34:57) - Getting Clean (52:36) - Relationship with Taylor (01:11:33) - Moving On (01:35:54) - Mayci (01:42:17) - Outro Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @dakota_mortensen @ciaracrobinson @justinkaphillips  @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell  

You're crazy. Dakota, welcome to the Vile Files. Yeah, thank you. How are you? I'm doing pretty good, dude. Okay. Yeah. We're very excited to have you.

Yeah, I'm excited to be here. Are you nervous? Yeah. Yeah, I always get like nervous and then I feel like once maybe I like start going a little bit. Do you need a sip of water? Always do, I don't wanna tell you. Always do.

I'm gonna take a sip of this. You have that nervous cotton mouth, I can hear it, I can hear it in your voice. Dude, yeah, it's so weird, it's like the one thing, that's how I know when I'm nervous. Did you grow up in Utah? No, I grew up in Idaho. Oh, Udaho. Yeah, there you go. Did you grow up in Utah? No, I grew up in Idaho. Oh

Udaho. Yeah, there you go Yeah, and I actually I grew up on a farm too. So I lived like just kind of like a country life It was it was awesome. So I brought you to Utah I actually when I got sober the last time I got sober I think it was just hard for me to be in Idaho just during that time because like everywhere I went, it felt like it was just trigger after trigger. Like it was like, oh, this gas station, oh, this place, like everywhere I went. And so I kind of just got to this point where I was like, I want to just leave and then just kind of have a fresh start.

There's just too much history. Yeah, there was just too much history. And I love Idaho, like I love it there, but yeah, it was just something I think during that time, it was like the best thing I could do. Well, I'm, as we said, we're very excited to have you, grateful to have you here. I was a little surprised when,

and maybe I'm assuming you know this, but I don't know if it was you or your team was more like hey, Dakota wants to come on and talk. Which I'm very grateful that, we get a lot of people saying hey, they wanna share their story. Sometimes it's also us, especially when it comes to people

with the more maybe dramatic lives, sometimes there's a little reluctance to come on. So that part is true, you wanted to come here. Yeah, well I think especially given like, I'm the type of person where I feel like I want, given the situation, even with the show, it's really hard sometimes because at the end of the day, I don't have really control of a lot of stuff that's like, whatever it is about me.

And so a big part of it was just like, I just wish I could kind of sometimes talk and show also who I am in ways because I just don't feel like I really get that. Okay. Yeah, so that's kind of how I feel about it. Okay, well we're excited to have you and to give you that opportunity.

Yeah, that is true. I wanted to go back, like we were talking about before, and just kind of get to know a little bit about your backstory, which I don't think we know a ton about. You've been open about your addictions, but are people fully aware of just how heavy that period was and just the details

of your substance abuse problem? No. And I think that's another thing too. That's a huge part for me as well. I've always kind of wanted to have a voice just for even things like that, like things I'm really passionate about or care about. And for me now, that is like a huge one for me. Because addiction is, it's so huge, like especially right now, like almost every single person probably can relate. Like you have loved ones, family members that have gone through that. And so for me, it's like, I enjoy talking about it and I get to sometimes like through social media and different things like that. And usually when I do it, like the, you know, the reciprocation I get back from it is absolutely

wild. Like, you know, I'll be getting comments all the time that are like, just lost my brother, just lost my dad today. Like it just goes on and on and on. And so now like, obviously like people know that I have like a past with it, but I just don't think people understand the full extent of how bad I actually was. Yeah, so I guess if you're comfortable talking about it, at its worst, what substances were you abusing? Yeah, so for me, it started out when I was in high school. I was a big basketball player.

Like I was like a huge sports, like a jock. And I had bad knees. And I remember I was at a practice once and my knees were hurting super bad. And I was in the gym and a kid was in there like for, I don't know, like doing like working out or something. He was just like one of my friends kind of. And he like I was I was complaining about my knees. I was like, my knees hurt so bad.

And then he was like, oh dude, I have some pain pills, you want some? I had no idea. Like I didn't even know what pain pills were. I was like, yeah, give me some of those. You're like, an Advil? Sure. Yeah, like I just, I didn't really understand it. And so I took them and then I went and practiced

and I remember I had zero pain. And like it was the best thing in the world. I was like, so right when practice ended, I texted him and I was like, hey, whatever those were, get me as many of those things as you can. And he wasn't even like a drug addict. He wasn't a drug addict or anything. Like he wasn't like selling drugs. Like I think he just like had some

and he was just like maybe taking them, like maybe experimenting himself. And so from there, I met up with him and he's like, I know somebody that had surgery and he has tons of pain pills, like, and we could go get some. So I like went to this house and- How old are you? I was 17 or 17, I think.

And- Were you close with your family? Yes. You were. Yes, very close. Did it ever cross your mind to be like, hey mom, how cool, I found this thing that my knee stopped hurting?

Yeah, well I think what happened was he eventually kind of told me a little bit more detail about him. It is kind of like a drug, like, you know, but like, I think just because it was a pill and it was like, I don't know, I didn't see, I think the bad side of that in that way or- It's kind of like if a doctor would prescribe this

to someone like can't be that harmful. Yeah, I just- Either way, 17 year old you- It's crazy, yeah. Didn't- Yeah, yeah, I just, I had no idea. And so we're there, I'm pouring like handfuls of these pills, dude, putting them in my pocket.

And then that same kid was like, I also hear that if you snort them, they work better. And so the second time ever, and it was more of a joke, like it was like funny, like we were like laughing about, he's never done it. And so he's like, let's try it. And so we tried it. And I remember when I was driving home, that was like the first time I felt like a high. Like, and I remember when I was driving home

and I was like, this is the best feeling in the world. Like I was like, this feels so good. Like I just felt like anything inside of me was just like gone. Like I felt very like just, I was like, I don't really care about anything right now. And from there it just, it just progressed really fast. Like I, you know, I eventually just got to where I started getting those as much as I could. And like my personality at the time, like I was, I was friends with

everybody. So it was like, I was friends with the skater kids. I was friends with the drug addict kids. I was like, so then that branched out, you know, because then some of the drug addict friends, mine, I was like, Hey, can you give me some of this stuff? And they're like, yeah, we can. And then like, and then it bumped to Oxy. And then from Oxy, you know, you can go up in the milligrams of those.

And then like before I knew it and I had no idea, they, I remember I was in class and over the intercom, it's when like the pill epidemic was like getting really bad. They announced it over the intercom and they were saying like, Hey, you know, just like talking about like how addictive it is and how, how bad they are. And I remember I was like sitting there and I was like, well, I'm kind of scared right now. And so I remember right after that, I was like, I'm not going to do it anymore. And I tried to stop. And I was like, I couldn't like already I was like, I couldn't stop. And what was the feeling you had when you how long did you stop for a day?

Not long, yeah. It was like maybe like a day or two. So what was the feeling that made you wanna do it again? Well, that's the thing is it's the, that was the addiction part of it. And if you don't understand addiction, like and especially for me being so young, like I didn't know like all of those symptoms

of like you're gonna, you know, your body's gonna crave it. You're like, your mind starts to change. Like it's, it's telling you like, Hey, you need these or you start to justify it to you. You really start to justify everything of being like, it's not that bad. Like you're good. Like you can, you can keep doing it. You're fine.

I can always stop. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's kind of what it felt like. I was like, I'm fine. It's not like doing anything to me. And then, yeah. And then I just started doing like, uh, you know, different things like that's kind of what it felt like. I was like, I'm fine. It's not like doing anything to me. And then, yeah. And then I just started doing like, you know,

different things like that. And then I started, I had a buddy that eventually told me you could smoke them off of tin foil and that changed everything. Who gave you this tutorial? How did you learn to do this? Another drug addict. Wow.

And he was, he the same age as you? He was actually, he was a year younger age as you? Uh he was actually he was a year younger than me and he wanted the crazy part. His mom walked in on us doing that and his mom was okay with it. What? Yeah like she never said anything and I still to this day when I think back sometimes on that story I'm'm like, that was crazy. Like, that they just kind of were like, okay with that. And the cool thing is that kid, he's sober now. His mom's sober now.

I think his whole family is sober, which is, it's like a miracle. It's really cool because he was really bad too and he went down a really dark path as well. Yeah, once I started smoking them and then the cost for these pills, it got so crazy. You were spending, they were selling, you know- Because eventually, yeah, people start giving him- Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it got to a point where they were selling them for $50 a pill. And so, it's a lot of money.

And, and, and, you know, and during this whole time, like, what are you, how are you making money at this point? Working. I vote. I always worked like I was always working. I was construction. What you name it. Like I was always, and it was always manual

labor, like just growing up in Idaho. Like I was always doing it. At this point, you're high working manual labor. Yeah. So I was high all the time. Did anyone like, what did your parents start noticing a changing your behavior? Or employers started noticing a change in your behavior? Yeah.

The funny part is the first time I smoked weed ever in my life, I got caught by my parents because I was so high and I had no idea what it was like. And the stoner kids I was with just kept telling me that it's your first time, you're not gonna get high. So I'm just like taking these bong rips. Just, I like- Is this before your pill addiction or is it after? I think it was right in the beginning phases of it.

So, and then I was like, I'm gonna try weed. And I was so high in there like, ah dude, you'll be fine even. You got like three hours, you won't be high, or something like that, two hours till you're back home. I came back home and I couldn't even, I couldn't talk. My dad saw me and it was like an instant,

like what is wrong with you? And, um, I remember he was yelling at me and I was laughing because I was so high. Like I just thought it was funny. And so, so it was like a, it was crazy because when I look back at everything, it really was a blessing with my family because they caught me with pills really early on as well. And so they knew almost from the start of when I started everything that I was kind of like starting to dabble with some of these things.

And then from there went to heroin because then oxys were so expensive, heroin was a little cheaper, similar highs, so you just transfer and a lot of people do this. And at that point, like what is, if you remember, like what is your brain telling you? Because like for me, like I'm the kid, dare worked. Right.

You know, I was like, yeah, I don't wanna turn green, man. Like I didn't do drugs in high school. So like, obviously, you had a different mentality. You know, to me, growing up, it's just like, you know, maybe kids smoke weed, maybe kids drink whatever. Even the crazy kids might have tried cocaine. But then it's like, heroin is like the don't, that'll kill you.

Did it even like register what you were doing? You know, it registered a little bit because when I first, I believe the first time that I got it, and when you start going into like that world of like the heroin meth side, you start to like truly walk into houses that are just weird. Breaking bad. Yes, like it's it's really really sad Like I remember being in a lot of houses where I my heart would like break for just what was going on

Which is so weird because like I'm sitting here using these drugs But I'm also looking at the situation and being like this is crazy I should not be in this house. But didn't dawn on you that like that was your next destination. No. And, and what's crazy is I, yeah, the first time that I got heroin, I remember the people that I got from, they were shooting up heroin and watching that was so scary to me because like, you know, it's an instant thing. Like it's like, they'll just go like this and it's, they're, they're just gone.

And that really scared me. And so I, I remember when I saw that, I told myself, if I ever shoot up, I'm gone. Like, I just knew that was the thing. I'm gone. Like, I just knew that was the thing. And I've heard like, when you go to needles, to quit is, it's 10 times harder. And so I kind of always made that promise to myself to where I was like, I'm never gonna shoot up.

And so I was just still- So you started smoking. Yeah, so I was just smoking it. Do you feel like that was probably the most memorable moment you have of like being scared while in your addiction? Um, you know, there was, there was a lot of moments because I think with addiction, especially when you're trying to quit, I mean, you're hitting rock bottom a lot. There's so many times, I can't tell you how many times where I would be like, oh yeah, I'm done. I'm not going to do this anymore. I'd almost overdosed, right? And I got rushed to the hospital one time. And I just think I kept having these moments. And that's where

moments and that's where like the power of addiction and how hard it is to quit. It's so wild. I mean, it is your whole life. When you wake up in the morning, it's the first thought in your head. When you go to bed at night, it's the first thought in your head. So your whole life becomes just chasing this high. That's all you're doing every day, 24 seven. And you will do anything to get high. What was the craziest thing you did? What was the craziest thing you did?

The craziest thing? Hmm. I mean, I mean, I did, you know, I mean, I'm like- Judgment free zone. Yeah, thank you guys. I appreciate that. I mean, like I stole a lot. Of like your mom's things.

Yeah, I stole a lot of stuff from my parents and like would pawn stuff off. I remember we would do this thing. One of my buddies learned that like a big thing was tools, like power tools. If you, like a lot of people, you could get a lot of money for them. So I had a buddy that learned a trick where you could go into these stores.

We do it at Walmart even. Sorry Walmart, sorry Home Depot. And I think they changed it now because of it, but you would go in, you would grab a tool or something, and then you would walk straight to the return place. And some of the places would return it without a receipt. And then they would give you money for it. So like, I would go with a buddy. We would walk in Walmart.

He would go and grab all of these like, oh, I can't even remember what they were at the time. And we would just walk straight to the return thing and they would exchange that for. You would take that cash and go straight. And then go straight to there, yeah. Wow. And so.

What's the most dangerous thing you've done to your money? I would say just like breaking into cars. I never broke into any houses. I had a few buddies that would do that. I was always, I'm from Idaho, everybody's got guns. So like, I was always like, I was like, I'm not even going to risk that. Like, but yeah, I would say it was just more things like that. I always tried to not go to the next levels of what some people were doing.

Like you hear stories about like sex work and things like that. some people were doing. Like you hear stories about like sex work and things like that. Oh, dude, yeah. So sometimes this has happened. Nobody's gonna believe me when I tell this story, but like there would be like sometimes like girls would be like drug dealers.

And when you're really hurting and like they would call it like sometimes like it's like dry, they would say it's dry. And that would mean like nobody can get, like it's really hard to get. Like there'd just be like a dry moment where all the pills were gone almost. Inventory's low. Yes, inventory's low.

And so you'd be hitting up so many people to try to find things. And when you're withdrawing and you're just like dying, there was like some girls that were drug dealers and they would like always offer me like if I slept with them that they would like give me drugs. I said no. Okay.

I never said yes to any of that. But like, I think just- I'm assuming no judgment to whoever these drug dealers are, but I imagine these were people that weren't getting laid and they saw a handsome young man. I get what you're saying, no one's going to believe this because usually it's the other way around where men are the ones always trying to get some sex. Yeah, exactly.

And I think maybe that's what it was, but you know what? I can almost promise you a lot of those girls were getting sex from lots of other men that were willing to do that because, yeah, again, when you're withdrawing. How did you turn a corner? Like what was the moment where you started realizing there's a huge problem and you started getting the help that you needed? Yeah, so I had a high school sweetheart and I, yeah, I like, I love this girl. It was like my first love.

And I, I was actually at a point where I proposed to her and I was going to get married and everything you do is always, if I get married, I'll stop. If I do this, this is where I'll stop. get married, I'll stop. If I do this, this is where I'll stop. And so I kind of put that in my head once I was engaged to her that I was like, I'm not going to use once I get married. Did she know about your addiction? She knew about it, but she didn't understand it. And nobody did. Nobody understood it. My family didn't understand it. And nobody did. Nobody understood it. My family didn't understand it.

Nobody understands it. When you say understand, they didn't know you were taking heroin, did they? No. She had no idea that I was using heroin. And she had no idea how bad I really was as well. And so it was just like, yeah, it was one of those things where I thought like just

by getting married that maybe that would stop. And I remember when I was going to my wedding, it was going to be my last hurrah before I stopped. And before I left, we were like, we should use one more time. Who's we? Like some of my buddies. And so I am in my, Your suit.

Yeah, like I'm getting ready to go do this stuff. But yeah, like a wedding day. Yeah, it's a wedding day. And I am trying to get drugs. And I remember I was supposed to be there at a certain time. And I was like late. Like I wasn't late, late to the wedding or anything, but like, meaning like I was late to where I should have been there a lot earlier and doing these things because drug dealers don't care.

They're just like, what? So I remember I showed up and yeah, so I used air and that was actually fentanyl that I used there. And, uh, you know, that was kind of the, that was my thing. I was like, yeah, this is I'm done. Not going to use anymore. Blah, blah, blah. It took using fentanyl on your wedding day to get you to stop. Nope.

Nope. Nope. Didn't stop there guys. Wasn't that. Cause I'm not married now. So did you ever get. You ran it back. You got married. I. Nope. Didn't stop there guys. Wasn't that. Cause I'm not married now. Absolutely. Did you ever get?

You ran it back. You got married. I got married. Okay. Yeah, so I ended up getting married and she was like such a sweet girl. She was like the sweetest girl ever. Like very just like innocent.

Like just. I would imagine she did not deserve that version of you. Oh, absolutely not. Like, and I think that's why it was so sad was because it's like during this time, I'm going through all of these weird emotions and things, but again, I still don't understand what's happening to me. Like, it's like your whole brain chemistry changes.

Like, it rewires your brain. And so everything, like I couldn't see actually how bad I was. And then we got married. And then this was a, this was the craziest part. We end up getting a house. Okay. When we move into the house, we're moving into it. I am driving to the house. There is a guy or I should say a kid that is right next door mowing his lawn. And that kid was my drug dealer. I had no idea. And so when I got out, he comes over to me and he's like, what are you doing? I was like, I'm moving in here.

And he's like, Oh dog. He's like, if you ever need anything at all, let me know I got you. And I was like, this never ends. And so I, I remember, uh, she was actually going, she was working towards being a nurse. So she was at the time she was a CNA. So she was working nights. And so, you know, that whole dynamic's really weird, right?

Because it's like, she's sleeping during the day, and then like, you know, gone at night. And so I remember I held off for a while, and then, and not long, but I held off for a little while. And then I remember he hit me up one night and I was like, OK. And then I went over and then told was he he was probably like two years older than me. OK, yeah. So I think we were like 20.

He was like 24. I was like maybe 22 or something like that. Yeah. And, uh. At this point, you're taking fentanyl, heroin, meth. Yeah, this was still more heroin here. Fentanyl came in a little bit later. I was doing fentanyl patches at the time because fentanyl wasn't like, it didn't come in yet.

Like it is. And so that's when, yeah, it was mostly just heroin. And then like the fent't come in yet like it is and so that's when yeah it was mostly just heroin and then like the fentanyl patches are like we would get those from cancer patients by the way like we would find people that were dying from cancer and they would sell all their drugs to people to make money and yeah which is is really sad and so so, yeah, I remember like just, and like that whole thing was like weird too, because I didn't even know what fentanyl was at that time. But like, it's like, it like knocks you out.

Like, it's like so crazy and it can last for a long time. So how long were you married? I was married for like a year and a half. And you were abusing drugs the entire marriage. Yeah, I was abusing drugs the whole marriage. Have you ever apologized to her? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I did. And it was really hard.

That's the part that I think, that was something that clicked into me later when I was like in my first rehab is you don't understand the damage you cause other people. Like even my family, for example, you just don't, you're not thinking that way. Like you're so selfish and stuck in your ways of just, it's all about you. Cause that's, that's like almost all you can think about is just like get high, get high, get high. So when I got sober, I remember there's this point where it hit me. It was like a moment of clarity. And I just remember thinking about my family. And at the time I had a little sister,

there's a big age gap between us. I've always wanted a little sibling so bad my whole life because I was the youngest out of my family. Yeah, just seeing how much pain I caused my whole family and just people. That's like, yeah, that almost like hurt me way more because like for me, you don't care about yourself. I didn't care if I died. I didn't care about yourself. Like I didn't care if I died, I didn't care about anything. But when I got sober for a little bit, it was just kind of seeing how much damage you cause other people and how much they went through.

And like, thank God, my family is like, they stuck by my side through everything and they did not have to do that. Like they could have given up on me a million times. Does it hit you a little harder now that you have your own son? Oh, yes. And you can't imagine like losing him?

Yeah, that's where, that was a really big transformation for me because I have always wanted a family my entire life. Actually, I wanted a girl first. That's what I wanted first for some reason. I wanted a girl more than anything. And I'm, I mean, I'm so, it didn't matter, but I'm just saying like that.

I was like, yeah, I was like, I want a little girl really bad. But when I had him, that was like the cool, the gosh damn, dude, I can't even talk about him half the time. Yeah, that just, I gotta stop being a bitch. I mean, you know. He shows you're human.

It was, yeah, it was just cool to kind of have like a full circle moment there. Like, cause I never knew I would even be alive. Yeah. And, uh, yeah. And then just the amount of love and that I would do like anything for him. And you know, it even, it even shifted my perspective, even to my family. Maybe that's how it was for you guys too, a little bit, but like, you kind of even

see the side of like, you know, I don't know what your dynamics are like with your, your, your parents, but like, you can kind of, you kind of understand like the caring part of that, of like how, you know, when you're growing up, like if your parents are hard on you or, you know, they're like doing these things or they're like showing you how much they care and you're just like a punk kid, you know, like whatever, I know what I'm doing. It was, uh, you know, that even changed. It was like a really cool experience for me to just kind of have that to punk kid, whatever, I know what I'm doing. It was, you know, that even changed. It was like a really cool experience for me to just kind of have that to be like, oh, I get it. Like, you guys were just doing your best too.

You just loved me unconditionally and you guys were just trying your best. And it's like, and I feel like no parent obviously does it perfect, but they definitely were just doing their best, you know, it's like. Do you have, and maybe this is something that like you'll use whenever it gets a little bit older. But like advice, I think for any parent,

one of their biggest fears is like, I hope my child doesn't grow up to become a drug addict. Like how do I keep, there's like the scare tactic, there's like, how do you think from your perspective, like parents should go about keeping drugs out of their children's life? Yeah. Yeah, well, I think a big one is I would always be

paying attention to their friends. I think friends are a really huge thing. It's kind of just like who you surround yourself with. You know, you're gonna eventually like kind of start doing what they're doing. I think that's a big one to keep an eye open for. Um, obviously like if you have prescription drugs in your house, I mean, if you don't need them anymore, or if you do need them for certain things,

like make sure you lock them up, hide them. But I think the biggest part would be to really allow your kid to feel like they have the trust to come to you and talk to you about anything with absolutely no judgment and just knowing that they want what's best for you and that they're going to help you. Totally. Because I think that was really hard for me. For some reason, I was always so petrified to like talk to my parents about how awful I was is

what it felt like. I also imagine there's a level of, I think most parents, and I don't know how your parents felt and maybe you had conversations with them since, but I imagine there's a lot of parents out there who feel like they're good parents and they have a good kid and they just like, just wouldn't just never imagine their kid doing stuff like that. So they almost take for granted, not to assign any blame, but like you just being diligent enough to know that like, you always have to like assume these risks, you know, because once your kid like leaves the safety of your home, the world, you know, has access to them. The world doesn't have the same love and consideration

for your kids out there. And bad things can happen fast. And to just be mindful of that. And not just, you know, I think as parents, we want to assume like, oh, my kid's the best. They would never, and I raised them well. And it's like, it might not have anything to do with it. Oh, yeah.

I mean, like, if you were to look at my family, you'd be like, what happened to you? Like, like not, but just meaning like, yeah, like. Yeah, you assume. I mean, if you just hear your story, people are naturally gonna assume that you came from the wrong side of the tracks, so to speak. 100%.

And what's crazy even is when I was going in these like trap houses, these straight junkies would look at me and be like, what are you doing here? They would tell me that. They're like, you don't belong here. I would have, I had multiple drug addicts, straight just junkies that they got to a point

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for $30 off your 15-inch calendar. That's S-K-Y-L-I-G-H-T-C-A-L.com slash viall. So how did you get clean? I got clean when I was married, and I remember I had this really cool experience. It was just like a really, I don't know, it was very, for me it was a very godly like just spiritual experience for me but I remember I was hurting so bad because I was still using and I just felt like such a crappy person. Like I just hated myself so much. And I remember I said a prayer and I was like,

hey, and at this time I kind of like, I didn't even know if I believed in God anymore. I was just kind of like out of that whole, like I was like, I don't even know anything. I don't really care anymore. And I was like, I'm going to just try to say a prayer and see what happens. And I said a prayer and I was like, I don't even know anything. I don't really care anymore. And I was like, I'm gonna just try to say a prayer and see what happens. And I said a prayer and I was like,

if there's anything you can do right now, just please, I need help so bad and I need something to happen that will just change. And right after I said that, I had a cousin that I haven't talked to like since I was a little kid. And he was a junkie for like 25 years, 30 years, and then he was sober. He ended up getting sober. He worked at a rehab place. And he randomly out of the blue shot me a text like right when I was done praying. And he sent me a scripture and then I just thought that was kind of weird and so like I I remember texting him just being like hey I'm actually like I kind of feel like I need help right now and then he like texted me back stuff but then I blew him off I was like whatever the next day this was Christmas Eve. I was with my wife, we went to like a movie, I came home and I was gonna get drugs and how I used to do it when I was married

was I would, this sounds so bad, this is so shitty, like such shitty person. And then I would have like my like drug dealers, they would drop off drugs in my mailbox. And then I would go out to the mailbox and get them and then like come back inside and like get high. You're like pretending to go at the mail. Yeah. Yeah. Or I just like sneak out and go grab it real quick. And then she was in her bathroom and I went into the other bathroom and locked the door and I was like getting ready to you know,

I was like getting ready to do it and she grabbed the key, unlocked the door and opened it with me using and it was like the most craziest experience because she was just broken. Like she was broken and the saddest part is I was so numb I felt nothing. Not a thing. Like in that moment I was just like so numb. And then the drugs that I had, I took it, hit it real quick, wad it up like the tin foil, threw it in the toilet because she came back in and was like, where are they? Where are they? And I was like, it's in the toilet, like watch, I'll flush it, flushed it. But I kept the drugs.

And then she called my family. My family came and picked me up. And then when I was driving home, I like even just driving home, like I remember I was like, I was like sitting on the door. I was just like so out of it. And I was like this close from just like opening the door and just throwing myself out the truck.

Like I just was like, I want to just freak, throw myself out right now. Got home and I was at my parents' house for a while. And then like the next day, uh, she like came over, essentially said she's like, Hey, like I'm, I'm, I'm going to get a divorce. And, oh, and by the way, during this time I was in rehab. So I checked myself in rehab. Like I did go to her and I was like, Hey, I'm the way, during this time I was in rehab. So I checked myself in rehab. Like I did go to her and I was like, Hey, I'm struggling. I got to get help. I don't know how to do it.

And I managed to get help. And so she caught you after she thought you were in rehab. Yes. And then from there, um, I remember there was this point where I was like, this is where I was going to kill myself. And I went, I bought like a gram of heroin. And I was just like, I'm going to just shoot up and I'm going to just try to kill myself. Like this is where I'm like so sick of this life. Like I just, I don't know how to stop.

I don't, I like can't stop. It felt like it was just, I could never stop. And when I did, that same cousin called me and he said, hey, I'm gonna come pick you up. I'm gonna get you into my rehab that I work at for free and I'm gonna come grab you. And there was just this one, there was like a brief moment where I just said, okay, I was like, I'll try it one more time.

This will be my last time. I was like, if this one doesn't work, I'm done. Like, I'm just gonna kill myself. I don't like doing this anymore. And went and I like moved away when I was going through withdrawals and just going through all of that, detoxing from drugs. I got served papers and did the divorce thing on top of it.

And that was just so hard. It was so hard to go through that because when you're getting sober, you're having so many, like, dude, the emotions and everything that are just like, it's just like endless. And yeah, and then I just went through all of that. And then right when I finished there, I was there for four months, drove back home, packed all my bags, and left the next day to Utah and moved to Utah and then never moved back from since I've been there. Wow. And in rehab, isn't there like a drug that helps heroin addicts?

Yeah. It's like methadone. Methadone. Were you on that? Nope. No. You like cold turkey nothing? Yeah. I cold turkey'd it. And the crazy thing is, is when I was in Utah, I actually was sober for close to like four and a half years, five years. Um, so I was actually doing great. Like I was actually like super happy.

I was just like loving life again. I never got to really enjoy life. It almost felt like I just like felt like I missed out on everything. You never got to do anything. I ended up having a relapse and it was fentanyl. And then I started using fentanyl. After four years of being so. Yeah, I went back and, uh, that, that one, that one was over.

Now it's been over three years and it was so hard. Like fentanyl was a whole game changer. And in a bad way. Yes. Thank you for clarifying. Yes. It was not a good, good, not in a good way. It was, uh, yeah, it was so hard.

Like even from heroin to that, the jump from that to that one, it was so tough. And so I eventually got to a point there where I was like, okay, I'm going to have to do something here to get clean. And the cool part was because I had such a long period of time where I was sober, I knew like how it kind of worked at this point. I understood addiction a little bit better. I had like the knowledge. And so what I actually did, it sounds weird, but I did it just for myself too, so that I could see. But I wanted to, I actually documented a lot of that period of time for myself to watch what it did to how much it changes you. When I watched back on some of those videos, it would blow your mind. Your whole thought process changes immediately. I was so positive and just happy.

Even if I didn't have anything, I was just happy. I was like, I don't need anything. I can enjoy life. I'm just happy to be alive. And it went straight back to, I hate myself. You're worthless. You're never going to do anything. So it was crazy to just see how much the drugs do impact that side of things as well. So how are you able to kick that? Um, I decided that I was like, the only way I can do this is if I just, uh, so I, at

the time I was living in Idaho again for a little bit, It was during the pandemic and that when you relapse, yeah. Do you think that had something to do with it? Yeah, it had to do with that. And then I moved in with, uh, one of my like best friends at the time that just got out of prison and, uh, he ended up relapsing and then I was living with him and then that's kind of how it just, I was a slippery slope there. So what I did was I got a I got a hotel in st. George, so it was like a nine-hour drive and I drove all the way to st. George and locked myself in a hotel for five six days and

just Just went through the gnarliest withdrawals and was just in bed shaking, like sweating, throwing up. Like it was a... What made you like have that revelation? Cause like what you just described isn't easy. No. I mean, at any point you could have just walked out. Yeah Tell room. I think it was just that I think it was the part that I knew I could finally see that

I knew all of the beliefs in my head at that time were lies. It wasn't real It was just like I knew it was just the drugs It was all the drugs just like changing how I'm thinking this might be a man a bad Analogy because I don't know what it's like to be an addict. First time I got my heart broken, I didn't think I could get over it, because I had never been in love before. And so, the things I told myself about love

and my inability to get over it were based off the premise that I was like, I can't get over this, because I had no playbook. Second time I got my heart broken, could argue it was more painful than the first time given the stakes, but what I knew the only difference was, is like, I know I can beat this.

Is that kind of similar to what you're describing? Yeah, that is actually, yeah, that's a great analogy. I feel like that's kind of what it was like for me. And even though it's really hard still, right? It's like, there's always now, there was that piece of hope. I at least had the hope of knowing that I'm like, no. This doesn't have to be it. Yeah, like this doesn't have to be it.

I can still do this. And I told myself, even if I went and did this thing, that if this didn't work, I would check myself into a rehab. So it was kind of just my last effort to try to do it on my own and to see if I could do it. And yeah, from there, I went back home. I moved out of the place I was staying with my friend and he actually went straight back to using. And, uh, and then I, uh, moved in with my parents and then I started doing, um, like, I think I maybe for like, cause it was still, I was still like hurting really bad, like just even like the withdrawals, it was still lasted for a

while, like it's, it's a long period of time of just kind of feeling really funky. But then I started, uh, 75 hard. What's that? Like it's like the workout thing. Oh, hard. What's that? Like workout thing. Yeah, the workout thing. Oh. Yeah, it's crazy. You wanna know about that?

Yeah, it's because it's very hard for people who do 75 hard to not talk about it. Yeah, sorry guys, I had to let you know. But I only did that because I was like, I just need something to give me some form of a push. It's like three workouts a day or something. Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's like, uh, you know, I can't even remember what the whole thing is like drink a gallon of water.

You got to, you got to do an outside workout. It's a lot of like, yeah, I got pretty caught dude. Like I got pretty, I got my, the best shape at that time of my life. Like, and, uh, so I started that and then I moved back to Utah and then kept doing that there and got to a, you know, like a pretty good place where I was just like really focused on that side of things, the health side. And then, yeah, I mean, there's just obviously there's a lot of, there's still a lot in there, but you know, I don't know. Thank you. Do you feel like you're in a place now

where you can be maybe around some of those guys from your childhood and set that boundary, or are you kind of like, I don't even wanna go anywhere near that? Yeah, for example, one of my best friends, almost everybody that I was dealing with at that time, they're all dead. Most of them are all dead. Any of almost everybody that I was dealing with at that time, they're like all dead. Most of them are all dead.

Like any of those people that I was like, hey, a lot of them are dead now. And so I have one friend. Well, I have two, one of them is on methadone and he's at least like, you know, he's been on that for a long time. Um, and then the other one, he is actually, he ended up getting sober. He went back to jail and got out and he's been doing a lot better now. Sorry, what did you ask me again? Do you feel like you can set those boundaries?

Oh yeah, yeah. Say you go back and they're like, should we? Do you feel like you're in such a good place where you'd be like, I don't even want to. Just a follow up to that is like, you've been sober for three years. Have there been moments? Have you been pretty close to that? Yeah, I mean, I don't know what it's like in your shoes. No, dude, so I mean, you talk about like the breakup part.

So this is the first time where I have ever went through like a breakup or you could say it like with Taylor, where I have never relapsed. That to me, it's really hard on me. Relationships for some reason are extremely hard on me. And I think a big part of it is because like, again, when I am in, I feel very in. And like almost to a point where it's,

it's probably not super healthy sometimes because I'm just like, I can't think about anything else but that. It's like, and that to me is the, you know, the side of like being either codependent and you you know, or like just even my, my personality is that way. It's like, I, I very much fixate on things that I enjoy or like, like, like the energy drinks. I, you know, there was a time I was drinking three or four of those a day. That's crazy.

Yeah. Because I was just like, it's, it's just like how I am with things sometimes and I hate it. It's just like how I am with things sometimes and I hate it. And so it's really important for me to do them, you know, try to find things that are a little healthier for me that I can kind of guide that. Ever feel like car shopping is designed to make you second guess yourself? Is this a good price? Am I making the right choice? With car gurus, you do not have to wonder anymore. They have a great inventory of new and used cars, so you can find the best deals. And with unbiased deal ratings, price drop alerts,

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Let's start unpacking that. Ha, so I met Taylor, so when I moved back, I met her at that time, I think I was, and here's the thing, I was only, I think, five months sober, six months sober when I met her. Yeah. When I met Taylor, I just, again, like how I am as a person, it's really hard for me to feel like I like someone enough to give someone myself. It's just like, I've never felt like I, it's hard for me to find somebody where I really am like, yes, I want to be with you. And with Taylor, yeah, when I met her, that's where I kind of felt really scared.

It scared me more than anything. It scared me for so many different reasons because, one, given her whole background, her whole situation of what she was just coming from, I was like scared of that. So like she was already famous, wasn't she, when you met her? And mom talked famous. Well, yeah. No, no, the scandal was already out. Okay. Yeah, so yeah, she was famous.

But the funny thing is, I actually didn't know about really anything of that until the scandal thing came out. But Taylor, we have mutual friends. When you say scandal, when she went online and said, this is going on in my life. Yeah, like my TikTok page at that time was just like goofy, like weird stuff.

And then like, all of a sudden, I'd see a few things about this. I was like, on in my life. Yeah. Like my TikTok page at that time was like, just like goofy, like weird stuff. And then like, all of a sudden, you know, I'd see a few things about this. I was like, my girlfriend. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and what's funny is like I said, like my best friend is, uh, like she, like she was friends with Taylor. And so, and I had like other mutual friends that knew Taylor and the other. Is she divorced at this point?

Um, I want to say she was like, I think she was. I don't know. I mean, I think she was like, she was definitely separated. Oh yeah. Yeah. No, yeah. She was like, no, no, no. Yeah.

It was like, yeah, don't say that, but yeah, I think she was a fully divorced at this time. And the funny part is she actually, she followed me on Instagram, maybe a year before that, which is really funny from like my friend, I think, like you would post stuff of me. And so she followed me, but like, I didn't really think anything of it, right. And she was just like married, had kids because I was like, oh, that's cool. But, and so like we followed each

other and then, um, yeah. And then like once all that happened, like some DMS were exchanged and then it got to- And then saw what, yeah. And then like once all that happened, like some DMS were exchanged and then it got to all what happened. What? Once all what happened. Like just, uh, like just following each other back. Yeah, like, yeah.

Like, and then like DMing each other. Okay. And to be honest with you, for me, I, I really didn't think like she even would want to hang out. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I was just like, you're just going through so much right now anyways, probably. It was like, that's like the last thing

that's probably going to happen. And then yeah, that eventually happened. And we like hung out. How aware of your addiction was she or your, your, your struggle with addiction? Yeah. She was very aware. Yeah.

I'm, I was super, I'm super open with like that side of things. Okay. Um, just like, yeah. So she like knew about all of that and. How soon into the relationship did her arrest happen? The big fight at the house. I think it was four or five months in. I mean, she was throwing the chair at you, which

yeah, almost hit her. Yeah. Right. Yeah. was four or five months in. I mean, she was throwing the chair at you, which almost hit her jaw. Yeah, yeah. And that was a really scary thing. That night was, I mean, you wanna talk about being in a position of what do you do? That's how it felt. And I get a lot of shit for that still, but also, well, I mean, I mean, it don't

how just kind of being a dude, like, I want to be honest, like just, I think being a guy in that situation is it was really scary for me, like, and it was scary for me because like her kids were there and just the fact that like, it's a domestic dispute, cops are being called, you're immediately. Do a thousand percent. And so like, I mean, like I did take a video, like I videoed it. And the only reason I did that was I didn't know what was gonna happen.

Like, and so my truck was in the garage, so I could not leave. I tried to leave. It just was so bad. So you were videoing her kind of going off the rails. Yeah. What started it? Well, she was hammered.

She was absolutely hammered. And so I don't know if you remember in the first season even, but like, that was like one of my big things was I was like, Hey, look, if you want to party, you want to do those things, you can go do it. I just, I'm not, I don't want to be in that, I don't want to be in a relationship like that. And I even said that, I made it very clear, I was like, that's fine if that's what you want to do,

like it has, you know, you're good to do that. I just, I don't want to be around that, I don't want to deal with that. And you know, obviously it happened multiple, multiple, multiple times. And I think for me at that time, it was tough because it's like, well, guess what, that's a world that I know. I understand that world. And I could also see that Taylor was absolutely suffering.

Like she was going through a lot. And so I think that's the part in me that was just very forgiving of it of just, I'll let you just kind of like, try to see if maybe you could work some of this out. But that night specifically, it was a, you know, when people get really drunk, right, it can go in phases of like emotional to then anger, like it will change. And so when I picked her up from this party, when I was driving home, she just was like, you know, crying, breaking down and just like hated herself for kind of, you know, I think everything she did, I think with like,

you know, her family like losing everything was actually really, really sad to see that. And yeah, it was just, she was just, you know, just in shambles. And when I got to her house at this time, I didn't know her kids were there by the way either. I had no idea. So I actually pulled up next to her house and I was trying to carry her in the house. And this didn't look good, but like with my luck, there's a person that's going on a walk at night that is walking around

the corner and Taylor is just, you know, just crying and like just, and I'm kind of like nervous of just that part now. I'm like, and so I had to just make sure I told that person even like, I'm like, hey, she's just really drunk. Like, I'm just trying to get her in the house. But even then. But right, dude, even then I was kind of like, gosh, damn. I was like, I don't know what to do.

And then I go, I get her to the front door. It's locked. And then she's like, Oh, my keys are in my truck at the party. Like where she was at because she left her vehicle. And so I'm like, Oh, so I put her back in the car, drove all the way back to the party, grab the keys,, drove all the way back to the party, grabbed the keys, then came all the way back. This is where things changed and the other part of her came out like it was the anger

part. It was so fast when it switched, but when I got there, I pulled into her garage and parked, helped her in the house, and sure enough, she had a sitter that was watching her kids. So the craziest part is if I would have known that, I could have just knocked on the door and got her in bed. Everything would have been okay at that time. But because of having to go back and then... On the drive back to the party,

were you provoking her a little bit of being like, oh, no, no, no. Why would you leave your keys? Now I gotta drive all the way back. Nope, nope, not at this time. Are you provoking her a little bit of being like, why would you leave your keys? Now I gotta drive all the way back. Nope, not at this time. The part where I was upset was in the very beginning of her just choosing to get drunk again,

because she even told me she wasn't gonna drink. And again, this was just time and time and time after again. But even then, once she was in the car and stuff, and it was like, I was just kinda like, I just don't, I don't know why you keep doing this. When you ask that question now, are you able to answer it in a... Wait, which question? In the moment, you're like, I don't know why you keep doing this. Oh, well yeah, I mean, I guess... But like, you know, after the whole conversation we just had... No, no, no, meaning yeah, like I guess I understood it, but like it just felt,

cause I just gave her that ultimatum of like, well, it wasn't like an ultimatum, but it kind of was in the beginning of just like, hey, look like. Which is a hundred percent valid. Like this is my history, I don't wanna be around this. Yeah, like I just don't like dealing with that stuff. And because that is all I've ever seen my whole life.

I've always seen the negative effects, whether it's alcohol or anything else. And obviously, like coming back, I mean, when she was like broken, I was just immediately like, okay, I'm gonna just try to take care of you, get you in the house. And then when we got into the house,

when I came back, like the sitters, like it was immediately like so chaotic that like even I told back, the sitters, it was immediately so chaotic that even I told them, I was like, hey, she's just really drunk, I'm gonna try to just get her to bed. And the second they walked out the door, it was, yeah, essentially it just turned into the most craziest thing ever. Like I, yeah, I don't know.

I mean, there's just a lot of- I will say, we had Taylor on. She opened up a lot about her version of this night. She expressed extreme remorse and regret for all of her actions. So I don't want us to like talk about this in a way of like, it was just more so, I was curious on your side

and how you remember that night to have happened. Yeah, and I mean, I could go into detail, but I do feel kind of bad. And that's what's really sad though too, is because, I don't know, I do feel like now it's hard for me because I get a lot of people that are like, it was him, he was the one that did this and provoked her

and pushed her to this thing. Sure, well, I don't wanna relate the past, as Nellie had mentioned, but it sounds like it was a regrettable night for everyone. But that obviously wasn't the end of you two, right? And I think what I'd like to spend the rest of our time talking about, because Taylor's not here, and I hope someday that I kind of have this conversation

with her, maybe with the both of you together someday. But like, you know, watching you this season, season two, it like, I just like, my heart breaks for both of you, right? Cause I see love between the two of you, you know? And now that you have a child together, being a new father myself, you know, Nellie and I, just like the family, like we're so protective of our family. I think sometimes couples can lose themselves being too protective of the

family because you know, we, you know, you have a kid, it's about the kid and you want to keep the unit, but like you still have to prioritize each other and keep the spark alive. But that aside, you know, you guys seem like you're torturing each other. And I, you know, from an outsider looking in and there's way more I don't know about your guys' relationship than know. But yeah, my best guess is like, you're both at fault. You both torture each other.

Yes. You both have moments of antagonizing the other person. I don't know the full scale of what Taylor is suffering through, but she's opened up this season about her trauma with her father. It's an but she's opened up this season about her trauma with her father. It's an incredibly sad story she told this season, the only time and the first time meeting her father.

You know, my wife has opened up about her father issues and just how demoralizing that can be to someone and the impact that can have on your entire childhood and just the trauma that can be. You obviously just opened up about your addiction and your trauma. So you both come from this place of extreme hurt and this place of extreme pain. And I just wanna focus on like, I guess before we get into it,

do you think Taylor is your new drug of choice? Yeah, a lot of people say that. I mean, clearly there's probably a side to it where it feels that way. Like it's, and again, that might come back to the whole. When it feels like the way for you, or appears that way in terms of like why me or so many people online like have asked you that question

or presented that as a possibility. Yeah, probably both. I mean, but here's the side that like, yeah, again, the context of me and Taylor's relationship, if you knew everything, it would all make a thousand times more sense. And that's like the thing is it's, you know, you're getting these like bits and pieces and you're getting Taylor where, you know, it's whether it's a scene or, you know, whether

she's triggered and super upset at me for good reason for a lot of the stuff. Like I get it. Like I did. And like, and especially given her background and her daddy issues, the things I did were hurting the parts in her. And those things being what was shown season two in terms of you not coming fully clean with the early stages of your relationship

and what seemed to be a, I don't know, nowadays everyone's in this situation ships and no one's defining things. And there's always like this gray area of like, we're dating, but we're not together. We're exclusive, but we're not boyfriend and girlfriend and yada, yada, yada. Is that like kind of what your reasoning is

for your initial decisions for why you, forget about what you did or didn't tell Taylor, but I want to more focus on your actions of like the women that you were hanging out with, hooking up with. Why were you in your, from your perspective, why were you doing what you were doing in that period of time?

Yeah, no, great question. I think for me during that time, like when I first hung with Taylor even, again, like Taylor was just going through all this stuff, right? So like Taylor, the first thing she told me was like, I'm not ready for any relationship for a long time. So I knew that right from the gate and I didn't expect that from Taylor. It's not like I expected her to be ready to just jump into a relationship.

And not only that, but I was also coming from the whole other side for me too, to where I was kind of like, I don't know what I want either, but I am the type of person where I crave love. I want, I love love. And there's a part where I always feel like maybe I'll never find it.

I'm always like, I don't know if I'll ever find it, but I want it so bad. And when I did start hanging with Taylor, I realized right away that I was like, oh, she's like, she's so cool. And I wasn't sure, like, I didn't know what she was going to be like. And I feel like our personalities and just like who we are as people, it was just like a really cool bond and connection. And if I'm being 100% honest, there was a big part of me, like even some of the girls that were involved during that time, for example. Again, coming from my background, I never dated. I've never dated ever. I married my high school sweetheart. I don't even know if I went on a date before that. So like married my high school sweetheart, was on drugs, like never dated, moved to Utah, the capital dating world of the century. Like every single person is like,

just date 50 girls, like just be going on dates and do this and that. So I don't think I really had a good guidance of how to even navigate that side of things. Of like, how do I do this of like taking these girls out, but also you know, not screwing things up and being like a piece of shit. And so like some of those girls, like there was already like a lead up of things, right? Like so like I already took one girl out

like once or twice or hung with her a few times with my group of friends. Like the other girl, like I took out a couple times. So like, those were just like things that were already happening. And then like Taylor was just in the mix of that. And you were operating under Taylor being like, I'm not ready for anything serious for a while.

So like, this is just like a fun. Yeah. I imagine y'all are hooking up at this time. So it was like, this is just a fun, like friends with benefits to blow some steam off. Yeah. And you want to know the funniest part? I have never asked a girl, like just based off of like my personality, like, especially in the beginning, but like, remember I was so I couldn't read

Taylor ever. And I was asking Taylor questions like I felt like a like a girl. Like I was like, what am I to you? Like I'm like, like pretty early on I'm just like, what are you wanting with me? Because I just I don't know. And I could tell something inside of me liked her, like I knew it and it scared me really bad. And so there was also that part of, I didn't want her to hurt me. Like I was like, I feel like you're gonna hurt me. And that's the sad part, is I was one that hurt her.

And I think part of that was maybe me just kind of, maybe even a little bit of like sabotaging it. Just kind of like, because I was one that hurt her. And I think part of that was maybe me just kind of, uh, maybe even a little bit of like sabotaging it. Just kind of like, because I was so afraid of how much I liked Taylor and how afraid I was of her and knowing that I didn't know really what she wanted or like, if this could even be a thing. And during that time, she was still talking to the man she had an affair with, like, and I like like I'm not stupid like I can obviously Like read those things. I still knew there was something going on there that

It just kind of put me in a spot of I didn't feel like I could almost Well, I could have but like I didn't really necessarily want to give her a hundred percent of me because I felt I was like afraid of that I didn't I didn't want to get like hurt by that because that's how I am. When I'm all in, I'm all in. And so that's what led to some of those dumb mistakes in that beginning stage is there, you know, and she knew about both of them, by the way, like before we dated. The thing that I did was I just lied. Well, I just left out certain details.

Lied. Yes, I lied. I lied. I did. I lied. Some would say lied. Well, I just left out certain details. Lied. Yes, I lied. I lied. I did. I lied. Some would say lied. No, I was just. Well, I, I, I, I'm a big stickler when it comes to those things because, you know,

there's just the, the world is full of people who say things like, I didn't tell you cause I didn't want to be mad. And I'm sure that comes from a place of honesty. I don't doubt that you didn't want someone to be mad or people didn't want to be mad, but they presented in a way that I was thinking of you. Yeah. No, no, a hundred percent. And what the truth is, you're not thinking of them. You're thinking of yourself and how you don't want to put your, you don't want to get in trouble. You know, this way we didn't want to tell our parents

why we did or didn't do it because you knew you'd get punished for it. So you didn't tell them and yeah, exactly. And like, I was just meaning more of the detail side of it, and yeah, again, a lie is a lie. I screwed up. I know I did it wrong. What do you think it's gonna take for you and Taylor to be in a healthy relationship that you would want your son to one day be in?

What has to change? Of individually or for me and Taylor to be together? For you day be in? What has to change? Like individually or for me and Taylor to be in? For you and Taylor. What would have to change? What would have to? Well, one of them would have been me to be honest. And I have now, it's been a really cool experience for me. It's been the worst experience ever for me,

but if you wanna talk about like a massive learning experience and just kind of like finally seeing that. I've never really understood that. Like I, you know, in my head again, yeah, I was justifying that. Like I, and it was really easy for me to do it in my head because I was like, this poor girl's suffering. Like when I was dating her, I was like,

I don't wanna like add any more fuel to that. You also have a history of justifying your actions. So I'm sure it comes natural. Yeah, and that's a total, addicts are known for being liars. That's a big thing. You get really good at lying and justifying that stuff. And the weird part is though, even when I was dating, before Taylor,

even when I moved to Utah, I was very brutally honest with everyone. With every girl I dated, anything. I didn't even care because I was like, I'm just going to tell you how it is. Like, I don't know if I want anything. Do what you want with that. And with Taylor, because I knew I liked her, that went out the window. I was like, Oh no, I don't know if I can, uh, I don't know if I want to tell you this, like, I don't know if I can, I don't know if I wanna tell you this.

Like I don't know if I wanna say this. And that's where I just, yeah, it sucks because there is a part of me where I feel like maybe, and I don't know if it would have changed anything because there was a lot of other stuff going on that in my eyes I just I don't know if it would have changed but again it's not even about that it's about yeah just me doing the right

thing like and just like staying true to myself and like and I think if I could have just been so honest with her and just been like hey I uh you know this is I did. I don't know why I did it. Like, I just, I don't know what fear, whatever you wanna call it, like me just being a dumb ass. But I owe you this of just knowing the truth and to at least just give you that. As we sit here today, does Taylor know everything she needs to know about anything she would care to know?

Yeah, Taylor knows everything she needs to know right now. And it's my understanding that it took a while to get there. It took a very long time. How many lies does Taylor feel like you have told her in that process? There was four. Well, I mean, four of like, well, there was two that were actually like in the relationship and then, you know, the two were before we dated, but the two, when I was in the relationship, well, I, well, gosh, I guess I can't even say that because she broke up with me.

So technically, no, I wasn't even dating her. But forget about that. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm just saying, but like that, like even the lies there, like, so those were two to where we were actually like in that, like in the relationship phase. And yeah, one of those lies is really fresh right now.

And that one is, uh, yeah, that one hurt me. And again, it's like. So can you elaborate, can you, I don't. I can't really elaborate on it too much. Is this like a season three situation? No, this is a, well, I don't know, we'll see, man. It's just, yeah, it's like that one kinda hurt me. What do you mean hurt you?

Well, meaning just, it hurt me to lie about it. And the context of everything changes a lot too. And I think that's a big part of it is even right now, like I can't give you the context of it. I can't. Like about me and Taylor, I can't do it. Why? Because you want to protect?

Yes. And I, and that is all I've ever done. And, and it, and I think that's why it's always been so hard for me because it has always felt like I have never been able to tell what Dakota has actually experienced throughout this because it matters. Like it does, it changes a lot. I don't doubt that, you know, because like, you know,

I've gotten to know Taylor and I find her incredibly charming and sweet and I at the same time also like have a lot of empathy for her, but like, and by her own admission, she can be toxic, you know, she has a toxic side. I feel like if Taylor were sitting here, I could say that to her face and I feel like she could acknowledge that.

Yeah. Would you agree with that, that Taylor can be toxic? Yeah. And that she would acknowledge that? Yes. Okay, and I don't doubt that, like I said, I think you've tortured each other. Yeah. And I don't know what you can't share and I wanna respect that, but when you say,

you know, I don't think a lot of people understand what Dakota's been through. Without knowing the detail, I'm gonna give you that. I know, like, there's things that you've probably had to protect the people you love, there's probably context people are missing. This is a show that you're on that are watched by women. This is a this is a show that people are listening to that primarily has a women audience.

Listen, in 2025, I'm sure there are times that you and I we could sit there and have, you know, get together and sometimes feel like maybe people don't understand our plight, that maybe we don't get the benefit of the doubt in situations. Right. And I want to acknowledge all that and give you all that. maybe people don't understand our plight, that maybe we don't get the benefit of the doubt in situations, right? And I wanna acknowledge all that and give you all that. But do you still think there are things, regardless of that, like could you be holding yourself more accountable given whatever the challenges you guys have faced? And I guess what I'm saying,

maybe to give it some context. Last week, Taylor was supposed to be here and supposed to be part of a group interview. She didn't show up. Right. Uh, I got the impression there was some drama between the two of you that ultimately led to that happening.

And I'm sure Taylor is playing her role in it. I'm sure she is doing things that maybe is an antagonizing you or getting you riled up and playing to your triggers. But I, I want to focus triggers. But I wanna focus on, I'm also getting the sense that you're doing the same. That you both at different times are still your own worst enemies. And there's these pivotal moments,

maybe she's missing you and she needs the comfort of Dakota and maybe you're missing Taylor and you needed the comfort of Taylor and you guys are giving in to your weaknesses of temptations. A lot of this season where you guys, you're still hooking up and you guys say you're done and we've seen the photos from Stagecoach where you're looking at each other's faces and they're like, they fucked that night. No, we didn't.

But man to man, I just like for someone who has the strength to lock themselves in a hotel room being addicted to fentanyl and go through relapse, why can't you do quote unquote the right thing? And because I sometimes I feel like the key to maybe you and Taylor being happy in the long run is having the strength to say no to Taylor in the short run. Yeah. Even if Taylor is reaching out to you and saying, I want Dakota, maybe you have to be the person who says that's not healthy for us right now. And in addition to that, not have your moments of weaknesses where you're doing the exact same potentially when I'm getting the sense that maybe you do.

Is that, is this all, is this all fair? I mean, if, if you want the actual statistic numbers there, I mean, I would say it's about 98% her. Okay. So that's- Okay, but then why can't you say no? Right, yeah. I mean, okay, so for me,

like if you're talking about like this side of it, and again, you're right. By the way, this is 100% on me too, like as far as, I'm in charge of my life. At any moment I can be like, Dakota, stop. Like stop, you're just continuing the cycle of this. And maybe, you know, I guess her excuse was she wants to trust you, she wants to be with you,

you heard her, she wishes she could be with you, but there's that part of her. She wishes she could be with you, but there's that part of her that every time she gives in to being around you, there's that voice that says, you can't trust him, men hurt you your whole life. From the moment you were born, you can't trust men. And you've done nothing to alleviate that fear or pain. Yeah.

And I think that is, yeah, again, that's the part where, yeah, I didn't show up right like I, I a hundred percent fell in that area. When do you want to start? Well, right now, right now, in this moment, I have nothing. I felt like that she has it all. What do you mean by that? Like meaning anything like, like any of those secrets or anything that, you

know, that I lied to her about, or, you know, didn't give her full details. Like she has everything right now. And again, you want, and then if I am being honest, and I know a lot of people from like a, like a viewer point of view, and you might understand this, but having everything aired out to the world is a lot different than just going to a person you care about or your family and telling them something. Like you want to talk about fear, that's the scariest feeling in the world because and then doing it with a show you don't

like if you don't have, if they're missing something, it's like, that's not how it was. And that to me was really hard to grasp. That was hard to understand that. I was like, I don't wanna be torched to the world for it. I just wanna have like a moment with you where I can do this, like where I can talk to you.

I have like a safe place to talk. But that's not the case. And if you know Taylor, it's to the world. And that's just how she is. Like and that's her thing and that's what she's known for. Is like it will be, you know, if there's something that she knows, she's gonna share it. And that's a really, it's scary sometimes.

It scares me to death. Is that why you're kind of protecting this issue that y'all are currently trying to work through? Yeah, I mean, yeah, there's, yeah, and it's just like a, it's a long thing. But like, again, like the end of the day, and Taylor has admitted this too, and she's admitted it to me.

She might not admit it to her friends. She might not admit it on camera. We have hurt each other both, really bad. Do you think she'd admit that? I don't know, maybe she would. I don't know, dude. I'm always feeling like every time I see Taylor, I can't tell. Sometimes I feel like she's ready to kill me

when she sees me or she's kind of nice. So like that's like- I believe that. I think you're a trigger for her. Yes. You know, I also think she loves you. Yeah. You know, I also think she wishes she could be with you.

Yeah. I think she's clearly torn, you know? I just, what I want for you is to find the strength to be whatever rock she needs and not allow her to use you as a trigger. And I think there's, from an outside looking in. Yeah, give me some advice on that. Well, it seems like you-

Give me like a couple things that- Well, I mean, you love her. From an outside. Well, you, I mean, listen, I've been in those situations, we all have, I think everyone listening knows that it's like to be things that. Well, I mean, you love her. From an outside. Well, you, I mean, listen, I've been in those situations. We all have, I think everyone listening knows that it's like to be in that like toxic relationship. You can't kick someone. You know, you know you're not supposed to be together

or something's wrong, but you can't get rid of each other. But like, again, you have faced harder times. You have survived near death situations. And it sounds like Taylor's really hurting right now in a lot of reasons. And again, you are a trigger for her. And it seems like you's really hurting right now in a lot of reasons. And again, you are a trigger for her. And it seems like you're a trigger for her more than she's a trigger for you.

I don't know how she triggers you, but she's been very honest about her relationship with men in general. Yeah. And you're a man. Yes, I am. Yes, I am. Thank you.

And my wife has opened up to me about her issues. And so I take great pride and responsibility to know that while it's not my fault and while I wasn't there, uh, in times of trauma that she experienced, I have to hold myself to a higher standard and be there for her because of what has happened. And I've, I've accepted that challenge knowing, when I met Nellie, she was pretty open, pretty quickly about what she's been through. And I could have been like, that's too much for me and I don't, I don't have this bag, whatever.

But I couldn't just say, well, you deal with it on your own. I don't want any part of that. It's like, if you're gonna be my wife, if I'm gonna be your husband, if we're gonna be a couple, I have to do whatever I can to not be that trigger. Even, and I have my shit, I've only dated women, right? And so women have only, when it comes to people who have caused me the most emotional pain in my life,

it's women. Yeah, same. Yeah, but I can't use that as an excuse, especially with my wife,, pain or not, like what Nellie's experienced through men, what I've experienced is nothing compared to that. Right. And the childhood I've had,

I've been compared to what Nellie was raised in is a night and day difference. And I want you to try to focus on being her rock even if that means you can't have her in the way that you would like to have her. Does that make sense? Yeah. I think you need to start saying no. Right. Okay. Yes. Okay. Cause this is the thing. So me and Taylor have the same therapist. Yeah. So it's the same. Yeah. Right. For you guys. You guys are together though. So it's for you guys. You guys are together though. So, but, uh, so like that's, you know, it takes a lot of work. Yeah, it does. And that's the thing. And so, like even just with that alone, like that concept of like, yeah, like I need to be her

rock. I need to be there for her. I think the part that was so hard, and this is what I've talked to art therapists about a lot, is I am being pushed away completely. And this has been for a very long time. So for me, in any relationship, right, let's say you hurt his trust, okay? You did something bad. Like for you to show Nick that like you can be trusted again, like for you to show Nick that like you can be trusted again,

the only way to do that is by you showing up for him and showing him by action, by doing certain things, to gain that trust back. You prove you're truthful by telling the truth. Yes, and then you gain your trust back. And I think the part that was really hard is I've never, how it's felt for me is I've never felt like I've actually had Taylor ever. Because whether it's me wanting to show her in ways or have something,

like Taylor's been broke up with me, just so you guys know, for 11 months. How old is your son? He's almost 14 months. Sure. So it's, it's. How old is your son? Uh, he's four, almost 14 months. And so it has been like, that was the part where it was really hard and I was trying to like figure that out with like the therapist. I was like, Hey, like if I'm wanting to like try to like show her or like have something, but at the same time, it's like, I'm, I'm not even her boyfriend right now. See that. I think that's the part, I think.

And maybe that's where I'm gonna twist it. Yeah, well, I don't think it's your intention. No, I'm confused. No, it's just more, what I'm hearing from you underneath, it all is I need to be with her, and we need to be in a relationship for me to be able to show her the type of partner I can be. And I'm suggesting you don't need to be. And show her the type of partner I can be.

And I'm suggesting you don't need to be. Yeah. And I'm suggesting that, well, hey, like for better or worse, you two have it. Well, for better, you two have a kid together. Yeah. And regardless of what happens as a romantic couple for the next 17 years, you guys will, I guess, be in each other's life to a certain extent and you can still be a support system. You can be an example to her.

You can be a great father to your son. You can, you can be someone she can always count on. Yeah. Even if she doesn't. A hundred percent. Except you back as a partner. And I think you are operating under this premise, almost a little bit of a, as a victim and I don't doubt that you've been victimized

in this relationship and I think you both have. And I think you sometimes lead with your pain that has been caused by this relationship as opposed to just accepting the reality of this situation is that whether Taylor can wants to be with you or not, she can't, not in a healthy way. She hasn't forgiven you yet. The wounds are too fresh.

And I think you, you know, but she, she's, you know, like you said, 98% of the time she's reaching out to you and you give in, you give in to the part of you that wants her back. And I get it, I've been there, you know, like what I'm suggesting to you is a very difficult task. You know, maybe as difficult as anything you've been through. But I think you're, I mean,

if you can lock yourself in a hotel room and get clean, I think you can do the thing that I'm suggesting you might need to do to get the thing that you say you want to get. Yes. And that is, that is the exact advice that my therapist gave me. She was like, Dakota, there is nothing you can do right now, but literally just say, no, like I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna keep sleeping with you. I'm not going to like keep doing, you know, seeing you like if, you know, just to focus on me being a co-parent and letting that just be for now and still showing up in the ways that I can in like a healthy way and being supportive and doing all of those things you

just said. And yeah, I think that that is the hardest part is again, it's so hard because I love her and it's like, yeah, I don't want I don't want to lose her. And part of her wound is abandonment. Right? So if she is reaching out to me, it makes me feel shitty. Sometimes if I say no to that, because I'm like, that's your biggest fear is me saying no. Yeah. But I think you're old enough to know the difference. And I think you're old enough and mature enough to know that.

And I'm sure she might even in the heat of the moment, use it against you. I mean, she might even throw it in your face. I'm sure she has, but it's going to take someone. Yeah, you're old enough and mature enough to know that. And I'm sure she might even in the heat of the moment, use it against you. I mean, she might even throw it in your face. I'm sure she has, but it's gonna take someone being healthy with a healthy mindset. And I just get the sense, you know, again, you have conquered some pretty dark demons and maybe you're just at a place that she isn't yet.

And she might need you to be stronger than you're, you're giving yourself credit for. Yeah. No, you're right. And yeah, that's, yeah, that's what I've been told too. They're like, it's not going to be tailored. It's going to do it. You're going to have to do this. Like you gotta just do it. So how bad do you want it? A bad, yeah. So like that, and that is what I'm like, uh, I mean, in the last five days or whatever, I have done it and so, and I hope that I can like keep with that. And I feel like, especially right now, just given everything, I think I do feel

like a big shift in me right now of just wanting to really make sure I do things in a different way moving forward and just like standing my ground and knowing that if I do keep doing this, I mean, it's insanity. It is literally insanity. It's just like we're doing the same thing over and over again and the result is not changing. And so it's like, I mean, they teach us that like in rehab, you know? And so, yeah, it is something that I know I need to just do. But the part I think that has always made it so hard for me is the kid part. You know, I take the kid out of, like you take my son out of it, the whole thing changes. And I know they're, and I'm saying it's like, well, you got to do what's best.

Like, you know, this isn't what's, but I get all of that. I understand all of that, but it does not mean it's not the hardest thing in the world too, cause everything now affects my son too. So whether that's co-parenting, me not getting to see my son as much, like. This is, this is my first kid. And I've practically had to be doing this co-parenting thing right out the gate. I don't doubt it's a challenge.

Yeah, it sucks. But you, you know, late nights and some of the shenanigans that you guys seem to be doing, I don't know how much your son has to do with that part. Well, to be honest, sometimes- I'm sure big picture, I get it. Well, no, it just allows me to be around him more. Different things like that.

So it's like- Like long game, man. Long game, there you go. It's the long game where it's not doing any good. You have the benefit of right now, like Nellie and I were talking about this. We're connecting with our daughter in ways, especially for me now,

like Nellie has been connected with River since the moment she found out she was pregnant and it's different for dads, right? There's a lot of things right now River's not gonna remember. We're gone for two days, it's harder on us than it is on River. She's not gonna remember us coming and going

and things like that. Soon your son is going to remember more things. So like, I understand it's hard not to be around your son. And yeah, I mean, like I'm so grateful for what now I have in this moment that I don't have to co parent and I don't have to be her. And I'm out running away from her. The longest I've been away from her was three nights. It's brutal. It is. But the good news is she won't like, she doesn't remember that now you're you gotta think about three or four years from now. And if you put the work in now. Yeah, you're right. And that, yeah.

And you're right. And regardless of even what happens with me and Taylor, like, and I do know that I can, it goes back to that whole thing. It's like, in the moment it feels like it's the end of the world. Like, I'm like, oh my gosh, I'll never have happiness again. I'll never find someone again or be able to have a family. I'll never have like a full family. And I think that's just something I've always craved so bad my whole life that I just want that more than anything. it's, you know,

it's not working. And maybe not working right now. And that's fine. And it is very much out of my control to where now I need to just do the right thing. Which is like, step back. Yeah, because like, you know, I get it, right? But what you don't wanna be five years from now

is looking back. You wanna look back, if it doesn't work out with you in Taylor, you want to know that you did everything you could do. Yeah. Right. And right now, if you didn't change, if you change nothing about what you're doing, minus these past several days that you said, you know, you're really trying to put it in that effort, but let's say you goes back to whatever

patterns you've been demonstrating you, the two of you for the past say 11 months. What you're going to think is, I, it was too hard. Yeah. Oh, I wish I was stronger. I wish I was this. I wish I did more because right now you're saying it's too hard. It's like, I could, it's, oh, but it's hard and I want to be around my son and I get all that.

But five years from now, you won't be saying that to yourself. You'll be wishing you had the strength and the guts to make the sacrifice in the short term, because you'd be wondering if I would have done all those difficult things, if I would have said no to Taylor, if I would have just focused on being a good co-parent and being a good father and being the emotional strong person in our dynamic, what if, would have that have changed? And you don't want to be that person. Give me some dog.

Yeah, I actually love that. Yeah, you're right. That's spot on. He's a good guy. Yeah, that is, yeah, I do. I actually, I agree 100% with that. And I think that would be something I would look back on, especially because I do feel like I do have a guilty that and I think that would be something I would look back on Especially because I do feel like I do have a guilty conscience and I think it would eat away at me down the road So and I don't want that either. So But this would be a great place to end it But I do have to ask and I don't hope I'm not triggering you but we had Macy on the other day And she is not a fan of yours You're not a fan of yours. Oh. You're not a fan of hers.

Uh-uh. And let me just say, let me just say, I don't not like anybody. I don't not like people. Okay. I love people. That is like, and anybody who knows me knows that. The part that I think is hard, and I can't even blame Macy for this,

and this is a funny thing, like she just said something about this too, like how, oh, every time we're together, it's like, he's always nice to me, and we like get along, blah blah blah. And to be honest with you, that's the truth. That's not me faking that either. It's like, I don't not want to like you. I, I actually get along with Macy when we hang out and we talk and I'm, I'm around her. But the part that drives me nuts is it's like, I just feel like she sits and just bashes me 24 seven. Yeah, I get that impression too.

Um, and I'm like, okay. Okay, there's her friend. She's, you know, a girl's girl. Macy's opened up about some of the men in her life and what they've done to her. So I imagine you could have empathy for that and I think you're just a trigger, you know? And then you see and then, you know, quite honestly, everything we just talked about, she is not gonna give you the benefit of the doubt. And she sees a person who's not doing everything he can do, and she sees you playing a big part

in this toxic relationship that you have with Taylor. Right, and I mean, yeah, and it goes back to the same thing, though. So it's like, you know, obviously, like, hurt Taylor. It's like, I know that, I mean, yeah, and it goes back to the same thing, though. So it's like, you know, obviously like Hurt Taylor, it's like, I know that, I mean, you know, she's not, you know, in those moments and in different things, she's obviously probably just like, not saying great things about me.

And so for Macy, you know, she's just the one that's sitting there hearing all this. But I think the part that just like always bothered me kind of is it's like, my friends I vent to, or even the husband on the show, it's like, guess what I'm also doing? Like, hey, you know, just the only part I would challenge you on says, as I'm imagining you're thinking, I don't know why she hates me. I'm not doing anything to her and there's nothing I can do. She just

hates me. No. I see. I am like, I have two sides to me right here. One side I wanna just go off right now because I have very good reason in a lot of these things where it's like, Macy, I mean, I just go based out, let's go off the show. I mean, no offense, but Macy, what's your storyline? Your storyline is literally bashing me.

It's bashing me the whole time. That's what she does. It's like, I'm Taylor's friend, Dakota's bad. And that is what she has ran with. That's what she does. I mean, even taking like, and I feel like here's the other part to it as well. Me and Taylor, as far as when it comes down to like,

opening up and sharing things, it probably shouldn't be shared a lot of the time. You guys are definitely the most vulnerable. And there you go, which I mean, and if you don't think these other couples have things that they're just, hmm, I'm not gonna share it. Okay, cool, that's fine.

But like- You feel like she's being a bit of a hypocrite? A thousand percent. And I feel like I am like her feel like she's being a bit of a hypocrite? A thousand percent. And I feel like I am like her, like it's just, it's perfect. It's perfect for her. It's like, I'm Taylor's friend. They're always fighting. We hate him.

And then like, I think now she's recruited Michaela. So, which is so weird because I've always loved Michaela. I don't have an issue with them. I don't have an issue with any of them. I just. Just prove them all wrong. Be that person we just talked about. Yeah. I bet things Michaela. I don't have an issue with them. I don't have an issue with any of them. I just- Just prove them all wrong. Be that person we just talked about. Yeah.

And I bet things will change. Well, and I do that too with her even. It's like, I'm never like sitting there like fighting with me. But you're not, don't do it to get their approval. Don't do it to get them to like you. Just do it because five years from now, you don't want to have regret.

Yeah. And I really feel like the rest of it will play out. Do you think they see behavior from you that they are not fans of? Like, do you think it's it can't be just everything Taylor relates to them? Like, have they or is it? I mean, I don't know how much I can share it. I mean, like if in these girls, let me just say, like, I don't doubt that. They've seen it.

Like, they're not. They're not giving you the benefit. I don't doubt that whatever Taylor does, they're not giving you the benefit. I don't doubt that. They're not looking to give you a pass. Never. That's clear. And so, yeah, it is one of those sayings. And I think that is something where I do, unfortunately, I think I'm obviously really hard on myself. And I think I do have that part in me where it bothers me sometimes when sometimes when people don't like me and that's not healthy. That's not good

either, you know, but like I really do like people a lot. And so when someone doesn't like me, it like hurts my feelings. Prove them wrong. Yeah. I'm like, why don't you like me? And, and I get it. I understand it. Forget about what Taylor's done. Yeah. And I do think that's the part you are stuck on because she has her side, right? She has shit she needs to work on,

be accountable for, admit to things. You are not the, you know, there are two sides of this story. You're half the problem. And I think when, whether it's me right now or people in general coming down on you, your first defense is to kind of be like, I'm not the only bad guy in this situation. Dude, well, but that's what's so hard

is because it's like you have these girls and it's to the world. So it's like, and then, I mean, you take even Macy's background. Like, she compares me to her abusive. And it's like, those aren't little things to throw around to the public and like, put me in that position of being like, Yeah, that's, that's, that's a fair point. Yeah. And so like, I think that is where I am. Like I'm a very, like, I get very like defensive of that because I'm like, how dare you? Like, don't, like, why would you do that to me?

Yeah. Not, I, But no, again, and I get what you're saying. I'm not saying what you're saying is wrong, because you're right. I'm just saying that side of it. I think that is where it's hard for me. Five years from now, just remember,

you don't want to be like, it was too hard. I'm gonna remember that. Dakota, thanks for coming, first of all. I know, and I do want to thank you, because, and I've said this a lot recently, especially covering the show and talking about you and all the women on the show. I don't think we appreciate all the things

that you guys are willing to do for our entertainment. You guys are talking about, you know, it's a fun show, it's a funny show, but you guys, whether you're talking about addiction, whether it's the women talking about some of the abuse they've incurred and everything in between, I really appreciate your guys' vulnerability and the vulnerability you showed today.

And I'm just, I'm rooting for you as a man to man, as a person, I'm rooting for you and Taylor, but I see the good in you guys. And I just really hope you guys reach your full potential. Yeah, same. Thank you, man. I appreciate that. And I think, yeah, that's, that's just what I want to.

And I just probably have messed that up, trying to go about that the right way. So I think there's still a, you can always, I can always change. You're right. There's always a new day tomorrow and I can start. So there you go. Yeah. I want to work on that, but yeah, thank you for having me by the way. Thank you for coming. Really Yeah. I want to work on that. Sorry, buddy. Yeah. Thank you for having me, by the way. Thank you for coming.

Really cool. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.