The Viall Files - E963 – Going Deeper with Kaja Sokola

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper edition.  Trigger Warning: This episode includes content pertaining to sexual assault. Please listen at your own comfort. On June 11th, 2025, jurors acquitted Harvey Weinstein of sexually assaulting Kaja Sokola. However, Weinstein was found guilty regarding another assault charge. Kaja bravely shares her side of the story. From what happened, to who was involved, and to why her family presented the journals… “Don't try to separate women and split us apart." National Sexual Assault Hotline (RAINN): https://rainn.org/about-national-sexual-assault-telephone-hotline  Call 800.656.HOPE (4673) to be connected with a trained staff member from a sexual assault service provider in your area. Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod   Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w   Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  Are you struggling with any sort of dating, relationship, or life dilemma? Do you want all the answers? Email [e-mail] with your question in the subject line to express interest in appearing on the show!  To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   Thank You to Our Sponsors: Pura - Right now, subscribe to any two scents for 12 months and get your Pura Plus™ diffuser  free. Don't miss out—this limited-time offer won't last. Visit https://pura.com and claim yours today. Quince - Stick to the staples that last—with elevated essentials from Quince. Go to https://quince.com/viall for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty-five -day returns. Fireflies - Right now, when you sign up for a yearly Fireflies subscription, you get your first two months FREE! Just go to fireflies.ai/VIALL   UpWork- Visit https://upwork.com to connect with freelancers and help grow your business. BREZ - Head to https://try.drinkbrez.com/VIALL/ and use the code VIALL for a $5 credit + free shipping on your first order.  Cymbiotika - Go to https://cymbiotika.com/viall for 20% off plus free shipping. Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @kajasokola  

Just wanted to give a quick trigger warning for the people about to listen to this episode with Kaya. It is a very tough conversation, but obviously a very important one. She's so brave to tell her story and she makes people who have been through similar things feel less alone. It's honestly a very tough conversation and hard to hear, but one worth having and one worth listening to. So thanks for listening and thanks to Kaya for being so brave. You're crazy. Kaia, welcome to the Vilephiles. Hello. So nice to meet you. Lovely to meet you.

We really appreciate you being here. Obviously, you've been through a lot over the years and now you finally have a chance to really talk about it and just wanna just express our appreciation first and foremost for having this conversation. We look forward to getting to know you more along with just understanding your story a little bit better.

Just, I think there's just obviously a theme when it comes to women in your position or just victims of all kinds of sexual assault who come forward and fight, they're often reduced down to like a victim and, and so much of the, the legal battle, you know, puts you in a box and, you know, I, I'm sure I imagined it feels like other people get to tell your story often. So we very much look forward to having this conversation, getting to know you better. Okay, how much time do we have?

If you wanna get to know you better. As much time as you want. Usually they take like an hour, 90 minutes or so, but truly we just wanna like, what we love to do on the show is to get to know the people we talk to and just have that conversation. It's less of an interview,

more just people having a real life conversation. Sadly, there's so many women out there obviously who are victims of sexual assault, many of which don't come forward, rightfully so for all the reasons that are out there that can be very scary. My wife, sadly, is a victim of sexual assault. So these are obviously very important conversations.

So just wanna thank you again for taking the time and being with us today. I really appreciate that, thank you. And it means a lot that, like you said, I've been put in a box first as a model, then as a psychologist, now as a victim. And I'm like, come on, how many boxes I need to have? Enough.

But yeah, but people try to look at victims through like a shortcut version of what happened. But that's, you know, as you know, we have lives, we are accomplishing things since something happened that hopefully actions like, you know, me standing up in court will help other women to not be afraid to do that. Yeah, it's really important. Well, I'm sure we'll dive into the case and everything and everything you've been through.

But I also just wanted to start by just getting to know you. You mentioned as you're a psychologist, you're a model, you're also a mother. Where would you like to start? I imagine over the years, there have been times where you felt like you don't really know who I am, where people, like I said, have told your story. So where would you like to start in terms of sharing with our audience a little bit more about you? I think it's important to start a childhood, right?

Yeah. That's where it all begins. And right now being a mom of a boy, single mom, I can show him love and closeness, emotional closeness and support that I never had as a child. First of all, you know, I grew up in Poland. My parents were from a little bit different generation that we are right now, but also my mom was always overly ambitious and not very emotional. So, I am a, believe it or not, but I'm a goofball and a very emotional person. So I kind of had to put myself in a shell and lock it because it didn't fit to my family dynamics.

And I think that that's when I started like developing love for acting and for performance and for poetry because it expressed everything that I had in me, but I couldn't really do it in other ways. How do you feel like it conditioned you as a child, like growing up with with parents who weren't really emotional? My dad was. Your dad was. My dad was very emotional.

My dad was amazing. He died in 2023. I'm sorry. Thank you. And he was the one that I could talk to. But he was struggling a lot. He was, you know, he was making money. He was providing for our family. So yeah, my sister is 12 years older and she was never really at home at the time when I was at home. How were you in relationships once you started dating and like, did you kind of, did you realize that your mom didn't show love or express love and you were like, I wanna do the opposite, I wanna like overly show love

or were you kind of the same way? I was a bit of a wild child. I was, yeah. I was listening to punk rock and I was wearing, you know, big boots and- B, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,

and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, like it shaped me in two ways. In one way, because my mom was so hard on me on achieving, you know, the best, the best, I would be very open at the beginning, but then I would just, you know, shut down and not want anyone get close to me. And second thing is that I always

wanted to be the best because that's what, you know, I've heard from my mom, so be the best in modeling, be the best in school. And it's really hard to, you know, to function on these levels of intensiveness. I think what's also important is that I was at the beginning, I was shy because I was a very chubby kid, chubby girl, and kids in like first grades of elementary school used to tease me and laugh at me and it felt oh my god I didn't want to go to school it was just so horrible and then suddenly when I lost weight you know on the outside I might have changed but on the, you don't change so fast. You still kind of stay, you know, it takes time to develop, um, to build personality and perspective on yourself. That's different from the one that you've heard you are. So I guess when I started modeling, I never really wanted to model.

It was not my dream. It was not my goal. And I mean, first of all, I didn't believe that anyone could take pictures of me like that. Now I have more confidence. So how did you get into modeling if you never saw that for yourself? My mom and my sister, they took pictures of me and they send them to magazines for competitions, contests.

And you know, it like happened really overnight because I won a competition contest, let's say, that the prize was a contract with Next Models. Oh wow. Like one day I won it and the next day I was flying to Paris with my mom and it's just, it really rolled up fast. But I don't think I've ever really fit in that world.

Was all of that happening in Poland or had you moved to the States? Yeah. No, this was happening in Poland. Then I started traveling to France with my mom to Paris at first and then just by myself in Europe. And then when I was 16, I went to New York. You lived in like a model's apartment and did that. Oh, thank you.

Yeah, you did the same thing. The brutal lifestyle. It's a brutal. It's not easy. It's like Hunger Games, five for survival. It is, it is. It's really rough. And you know, but even worse than,

oh my God, I'm gonna talk so much shit about that, but okay, who cares? But even worse than that are beauty competitions. I won a beauty pageant in Poland when I was 18. And I mean, the things that the girls were doing, it's not just stories, like putting color into shampoo or like tinted cream. To like mess you up. Yeah. Oh, wow. Oh, my gosh. That's awful. Yeah, it's not. I mean, now I can laugh at it. Hopefully my son will know. That, I mean. That's awful. Yeah. That's awful. It's not, I mean, now I can laugh at it.

Hopefully my son will know. No, he won't, he won't. Yeah. So you moved to New York at 16, 17? Yeah, 16. And you left your family in Poland. I mean, I was traveling still a lot. So I was kind of back and forth because I would, you know,

I get jobs we all know, I guess, in, you know, Australia or Japan or in Europe and flying back and forth. But still I was, I finished school normally. I graduated, pretty good results. Okay. So, so yeah. Did you have much of a support system in New York when you were living there at the time? of a support system in New York when you were living there at the time? No, no, none, none. I didn't know anyone. And, you know, it was, it was, I mean, exciting.

I really wanted to come to America. I, you know, I speak English, so it was much easier than in France or in Italy. And, um, I was just fascinated by New York, especially. So it was exciting and happy, but at the same time, I mean, now thinking about it, when I look at 16 year old girls or 15 year old girls, and I think that that was me when I got here, like these are kids, kids.

It's so much different now that you have your own child too. You're like, how obviously, how the heck did that happen? Yeah, I mean, I remember there was a lot of funny stories aside of the bad story that, you know, the world knows right now. Um, I remember, uh, our agent, my agents, they got me and my friend who was also 16 tickets for a Lenny Kravitz concert in, uh, Jones beach. Okay. And so they told, they told us it's so easy to get there.

Don't worry. Um, we had no idea what we're doing, but someone told us, it's so easy to get there, don't worry. We had no idea what we were doing, but someone told us, some people said this, take this train, go like that. And we finally got there. Constraint was amazing, but then how to get back. And it's a quiet of a ride. So we were asking people, two 16 year old girls, can you take us back to this? Oh my gosh. Did you get back?

Two models. Yeah, two 16-year-old models. And so there was one car that basically the fume of weed was just coming out from all the windows. And I was like, I don't think we can do that. I rather sleep in the bushes. Seriously. But then fortunately I'm not going to name drop, but there was one very nice actor who had his car and his driver and we got back to the city and till that day, I love ginger heads. Trustworthy.

Okay. Trustworthy. And then it was at that point when you started getting into acting? Oh well, I started getting into acting in school when I was younger. Okay, but in terms of like when you were in America, like in terms of like trying to get into film here in the States?

Oh, that didn't end up very well for me. And so like I said, modeling happened overnight and I've never had anything like, my mom is a biologist and professor, my dad had his own company. So no one in my family worked in the film industry or in entertainment, although my dad wanted to when he was younger.

And so, modeling happened like that. I did not have that experience with agents or with people on photoshoots. So when I met Harvey, I thought, you know, like what can go wrong? This dude can be my grandfather. How did you meet him in the first place? We met in a club called butter. Um, you know, a bunch of models were invited to like join, you know, how it is, um, turn the party. And he asked me if I ever thought about acting,

that I have a, you know, a face for that and blah, blah, blah, the same spiel. And I, I was really happy. I was really excited because I thought, you know, now this is a transition that I want to do and someone sees that. So I, until the moment when we were in his apartment, I did not feel any kind of threat because I also had a really good relationship with my father. So, you know, and I imagine, you know, someone like him has that predatory behavior, is probably very used to making people feel very comfortable at first, you know, and here you are, this young, ambitious model. And like you said, it was almost like someone sees what I see in myself, they see that talent.

And then I imagine before he started with the threats of his power and things like that, it was more just, you know, like the, have you ever thought about being an actor? Or, you know, like you could really be great and I see that potential and like, you know, that someone like him who was in that power position makes someone like yourself, especially as a 16 year old girl, you know, put their guard down and it makes a lot of sense why, you know, there's no reason why you would immediately think, Oh, why is this person going to do harm to me? And also we met during the day.

It was for lunch. So yeah, I really did not expect that it will turn out that way. And, um, yeah, but it did. So you, if you're okay to get into it. Yeah. I mean, you met him. I mean, I know at this point. You met him at the club.

Yeah. And you were 16. How long did it take after you met for him to invite you to lunch? It was a few days. A few days. Okay. Yeah.

Um, so you go to lunch and what's the conversation like? What is he, how was he acting? Um, he's talking about scripts and about films and he was also on the phone for a little bit. So this made me feel a little bit uncomfortable. Let's say, you know, someone was sitting with me and being on the phone, but, but again, it seemed okay in the car until he said that he doesn't have time to go for lunch and we'll stop somewhere else.

And that's when I was like, okay, well, that doesn't sound great. But he was 16 and 50, a person that runs Hollywood, that is a better psychologist than most of psychologists or manipulator or narcissist, all of that, I think. So it's hard to describe these situations and the feelings if someone have never experienced it. But that's why there are so many women still being raped and assaulted. And there's so much domestic violence in relationships because it sounds very different on paper, it's very different than in reality. And then it just

happened very fast. He walked out of the car, he told me to follow him, so I did. And suddenly I realized that we are probably alone. I don't know where the rest of one Alison was hiding. In his apartment. That must've been really scary. Of just like when that door shut behind you of like, holy fuck, what have I gotten myself into? Like, how did I end up here?

How do I get out? I bet you just immediately panic. Yeah, I did. And that's when I started to raise my voice. And he told me to be quiet. And he told me that I have to work on my stubbornness because actresses have to be obedient and have to listen to directors and to producers on set. You have to get naked.

You have to get naked. Look at the films. I create a career of Penelope Cruz and Gwyneth Patril. So, you know, having all these things in my head at 16, I lost touch with the reality of what's going on. Yeah, I mean, like you said, I mean, on paper, it might sound different for what people think, but yeah, again, thinking about, you know,

trying to put myself as a 16-year-old person, you're like, oh yeah, you know, you watch these movies and it's make believe and all these things and you try, you know, if that's what you wanna do. It's scary just like how much power he had, not only in the position that he had, but what he was able to offer, you know,

people who had this dream, you know, I mean, a dream that almost most people share. I mean, even people who don't wanna be actors, if you came up to him and said, have you ever thought about being an actor? He'd be like, no, but like, I would love to be, you know? Like, and so this is, you know, he really had this opportunity to really do a lot of damage

and clearly he did. Yes, and I think also the, I mean, physically, like he was very intimidating physically as well, you know. And one thing that I really remembered for a long time was his voice. It was like Nosferatu, like a deep overpowering voice. That yeah, that is like a mind game. It's more, it's more than just sexual assault. Like what he was doing with people were mind games. Yeah. more than just sexual assault. Like what he was doing with people were mind games, not only with the women, but also with people that he was working with.

I met a producer who almost switched his career and he's successful now because of the interaction that he had with Harvey. But I think that one reason, and I have not talked about this before, but I mean, and I have not talked about this before, but I mean, I'm 39, that's enough, is because my mom was a bullying person. So that was something that I was used to in a way, to just shut up, you have not much to say, and I know better.

So that definitely was some kind of a path after my marriage, but meeting Harvey. Yeah. And then after the incident happened in the first assault, and I've heard this from other people who have been victims, or it's almost like you're, it almost feels like what just happened? Like almost like, you know, it's, you're not even sure if like, did something happen? Did something just happen to me? Because again, of this kind of make believe scenario he almost created in this environment. You know, he kept on saying, just keep it between us.

You can't talk about this anywhere else. And again, as a straight eight student, I was like, you told me to do that. I'm going to do that. And I hope that right now, young girls can see that a little bit differently because the conversation is open. We talk about it. But back then, I think the internet was just starting up. The world was different. But on and all, I truly think that the manipulation, the mind game,

and just my ambitions of wanting to achieve something to make my mom proud, made me keep the secret. So what happened in that apartment? He told me to take my clothes off and then he made me touch him with my hand and he touched me. It's not called rape, it's called sexual assault, but it was the first time that I was in an intimate situation with a man, with a person, with a man. So that's like an upper level of trauma to that whole thing. I mean, he took, not only did he take that from you,

but he took the first. A lot of things. A lot of things, yeah. So after all of that happened, was he just like, okay, bye, I'll see you soon? No, he said he said something about me behaving well, that I did that, that it has to stay between us, and that he'll, you know, he'll get back in touch.

And so he did. When did he get back in touch? I was traveling, so I don't remember it was so many years ago but our next encounter if you want to call it that way was in 2004. Okay. And I was going I think from a casting or from a photo shoot to Jim and he said that you know he can give me a list to talk a little bit because he has a project and in the car, it was again on the phone and he name dropped. He said that he has a big problem because he's working on the Grimm brothers with Heath Ledger and Matt Damon. And he started talking

about this film and again about my future. And then he tried to put his hand on me, but I immediately backed out because there was a driver in the car and I left the car. And I said something like, this is not what I want. Right. So that was that. And truly I don't remember all of our conversations or emails even, you know, lately in court, they were able to pull up maybe two or three emails, but nothing more from that time. So I wasn't, it wasn't like I was regularly in touch with him. It was spread in certain occasions throughout the years. And I still, at that time, I still thought that I could be an actress.

Like when we're talking about passions, it was always my passions. I still believe I could be a great one. But yeah, it was so painful because someone that opinion I cared for, just at that point I started to think treats me like a joke not only assaulted me but on top of that treats me like a joke and yeah. So then obviously yours had passed or this you had to live with this trauma and I imagined the idea of coming forward then almost seemed impossible or surreal. Absolutely. Absolutely. Plus I was scared that if I would say this to someone,

and like I said before, we never had these kinds of conversations at home. So I was scared that if I would say this to someone, they will say, oh my God, she's a slut. Blame it on me. Blame it on the girl. How did you end up getting yourself in that situation? So it truly, really took the guilt on me. Yeah. Looking to level up your home this summer? Meet Pura Plus, the smartest way to scent your space. With app controlled fragrance scheduling,

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the world kind of woke up to who Harvey Weinstein really was, this monster. And yeah, what was that like for you? Do you remember where you were the first time this became international news? I didn't hear about it from like, I didn't see it in the magazine at first, but someone who knew that I was scared of him. And there was one occasion when he was trying to storm into my hotel room.

I was staying at Four Seasons and the lobby, the receptionist, they called me and they were like, this man is trying to storm into your room. We didn't allow him to do that. But it started to be really like um crazy scary and so this person that I told about this incident called me or sent me a text in 2017 I said hey I don't know what happened between you and him but it sounded like something and check this out and then when I saw the articles, I was shaking. But I mean, one thing that really spoke to me was seeing Gwyneth Patrull's name and her coming forward and saying that, you know, he did whatever he did, which is very interesting that right now he's calling her a liar in press. And I thought, you know,

because for many years I thought, okay, I'm just a stupid Polish model. And so he could do these things to me. But to Gwyneth Patrol, I'm sure that she's just so talented and so beautiful. So she never had to, you know, she never experienced any of that. So for these all these years, I was really berating myself also because of that. And then seeing her name and accusation from so many women, like, oh my God, he was just like a horrible predator that was hungry for, I think like purity. If he could sense people that are not strong enough to say no. And that's how I think. And it was definitely extremely turned on by fear, which is insane itself. So did seeing all of these women, did that give you the courage to be like, oh my God, me too?

Like it wasn't, you know, I, you did this to me too. Yeah, even the courage. But at the time it's 2017. So I got married in 2015. We moved to a house, to a big house, and we were thinking about starting a family. So it was also really difficult to talk to my then husband about that, because it's hard, right? Had you had told him what had happened

or his name came in the media with all the allegations? You hadn't. No. Wow. I had a difficult marriage as well. I'm very blessed that I have my son out of it. And yeah, that's what I'm thankful for. But I think he didn't even want to hear

what really happened. He just, he was like, don't save me though. Yeah. I'm sorry about that. Thank you. We've obviously heard so many horrible stories about how Harvey, as well connected as he was, had like hired muscle and people who intimidated people, lineup of lawyers who, you know, maybe kind of not the more honorable type of lawyers. Douchebags. Douchebags.

It's called spade as bait. Did you face any of that intimidation from him or his people over the years to try to silence you? No, he was trying to silence me and then I've never heard it from lawyers, but you mean after the news? Yeah, I just know, you know, I mean from an outsider just reading all the articles and the interviews where it just seemed like he, you know, it seems to be a playbook as old as time from people like him who try to very much intimidate their victims, you know,

and someone like him, he obviously had this wealth and power to literally hire people to do just that. Well, in my case, he didn't have to hire people because my ex-husband, who would love to see me probably drowning in the lake reached out to him and said that he wants to collaborate with his team along with my sister. Your sister and your husband at the time? Yeah, they reached out to the defense team and they were reaching out to them before

I got settlement in 2022. Were you still married at this time? No, I filed for divorce in 2022. So I flew from Poland after the borders were open after COVID. The first occasion that I had, of course, I didn't kidnap my son, but I told my husband that we're going for two months. And I thought, okay, this is my chance to like escape from that hell. And so I did.

And after three months in the United States and receiving 80,000 text messages and phone calls. Or I think two months and within two months, I got about 80,000 messages from my ex husband, scaring me, asking me to forgive him, asking me to go back and telling me he's me to forgive him, asking me to go back and telling me he's gonna kill me, like all these sorts of mixed stuff. And I filed for divorce, but I was scared.

Even as a psychologist, even as a person that already stepped forward against Harvey, being in a situation like this with your spouse was very scary. Why was it L, the relationship? Because he was aggressive. He was extremely physically and emotionally aggressive. And you know, again, as a psychologist, I should

know better, but it's not like that when you're in the situation. And on the outside, my husband was very handsome, you know, a little bit older than me, but not much older. He had money. Everything was perfect. We had a beautiful house with dogs and cats, amazing. And then behind the closed door, he never took drugs, which I think is almost worse because it was just the- That's just who he was. Yeah. Nothing made him like that. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, at the beginning it was like pushing me or, or twisting my arm and it's horrible.

But, but I kept on telling myself it will change once we'll have a child, it will change once we'll, this will happen, it will change. But then when he did that to me when I was pregnant, I started to be like really scared. And then when I saw like his contact with our son, which was also aggressive and you know, saying to a one year old kid, you're not going to be stubborn. You're not going to be capricious. Like if I give you that to eat, you got to eat that. And I'm like, back the fuck off.

Yeah. What? Sorry, I don't know. No, fuck. And then, you know, when I saw that, I'm like, no way. I can't continue this. It's one thing when it's to you. It's another thing when it's to your child.

Yeah. Did you first open up to your ex-husband about the trauma that Harvey placed on you? And then how did you find out that he went behind your back? So in 2022, when we were working on the, you know, we were working on the settlement, I, you know, there was an affidavit made by someone else

that he sent to the lawyers and my lawyer got to know about that. So he was working with them from 2022, which finally escalated before the criminal trial. He can't come to America because he's been convicted and he was, um, what's the word, deported, deported. So he can't come here. That's why I also chose New York because it's like, okay, you can be sure. He can't get you. Yeah. That he can save you. I mean, you guys are successful. Money can bring a lot of joy, but it also can be sometimes, you know, a cause of problems. My sister, I guess, thought that I can be a milking cow for the family, for her. And at one point, like she did enough. And at one point I said, no, like I'm no,

I'm not going to take you to Hawaii for vacation. For four of us, like I'm not, who do you think I am? And yeah, I'm not a narcissist also, although I would love to be that rich. And that's basically when she turned her back and started changing her testimonies. And so did she think she would get money from his team or she would? I mean, I guess everyone can answer themselves to this question, but she reached out to them and had many meetings before the trial. And there was this part about my journal. She probably had about 10 or 20 journals and she chose one thing that's not even a diary. Like, you know, the depth of the betrayal and like the need to, I don't know, like destroy me. Yeah.

How did you gain access to your journals? When I flew Poland, I left everything in, in boxes because I basically packed two luggages like in rush till the moment that I was in the plane with my son. I didn't know what my ex would do. Like there was one moment second that we were at the airport. He was holding my son, I didn't know what my ex would do. Like there was one moment, second that we were at the airport, he was holding my son and he was like, are you sure you're coming back? And he was so scary and I had to act, I had to act.

I mean, and I said, yeah, of course, of course I'm back. Knowing that they probably won't, if I can, I won't. And it was the first few months in the United States when we got here were very intense as well because I was working, I mean, meeting with the lawyers regarding Weinstein. I had to find a way to legally stay here. And that's why I filed for asylum papers, I filed a criminal case against my ex-husband in Poland. And I just, I started to go like, pull on in this mode that if I'm saying A, I might just say the whole alphabet. Like there's nothing anymore that can scare me, I guess.

I held back. Yeah. And that was also a big part of why I decided to be in the criminal trial. I felt stronger already, right? And it just felt like the right thing to do. So when did you find out that your sister was working for them?

I had suspicions. So her best friend who actually was in my apartment in 2006, so they know each other for 20 years, more than 20 years, or 20 to 19, he works for Arthur Idalla, who is Harvey's defense lawyer. or 20 to 19. He works for Arthur Idalla, who is Harvey's defense lawyer. And so I started to sense that. And after in August of last year, we testified in front of the grand jury, which was very stressful for me as well, because it was the first time that I spoke publicly about the other incident that happened when I was 19.

The one in the car? No, the one in the hotel where he raped me. Oh my God. Yeah. And there was a hall over. My sister was there with me at the restaurant. That's why she was testifying. And her testimony in front of the grand jury was basically saying that I was extremely

tense and I didn't speak at all after I got back to her. And then on stand, she testified something completely else. So she was almost impeached because the prosecutors were saying, hey, wait a second, you want to read your testimony from the grand jury? That's not what you said. And during the trial, because she was prepared from the defense, she started saying that I looked more like someone who's waiting for an Oscar and doesn't know what the outcome will be. Yeah.

No, that, that, that, that is something that hurt me absolutely the most, the most because, you know, I've heard stories of families, let's say going bad, but if you experience that, it's your own blood. It's horrible. So you were just sitting in court listening to your sister. No, no, I couldn't be there. But after I got the transcripts from the court hearings and I read what she was saying, it was like, I can stop in the heart over and over again.

And you know, in the end, they openly say that your husband, her ex-husband reached out to us and then your sister reached out to us. And I'm like, I hope they paid her well, you know. Were y'all close? I mean, I know she was older than you. We were never really close because like when she was 18 or 19, she left to Italy.

She was not living with us. And I started modeling and there was always jealousy. There was always jealousy. I know as a maybe this was something that I don't know. There was just this house dynamics of being competitive with each other, which is crazy because we're all different and she's a doctor, I'm a,

was a model, no, I'm a psychologist, but yeah, I don't, I just, I honestly, I don't know if some, there are a lot of people asking me, like, why did she do that? I honestly don't know, I don't know. Why would someone do something like this? I mean, I get my ex-husband, right? Right. But the best you can assume is just the money and jealousy. And yeah, at age, it's not the first time that she betrayed me. So it's not like something that was

completely surprising, shocking. Did you talk to your parents about that? Or? Well, he talked to my dad, but he's dead. So he can't answer. But he's the only one that I talked to about that or? Well, he talked to my dad, but he's dead, so he can't answer. But yeah, he's the only one that I talk to about that. And then I still have, I'm still in touch with some of my family from Poland, like aunts and you know. But it's been so many years, I've been here three and a half years, almost four years. And I have not seen them in these four years and you know and like building a whole different life. Is there a part of you that's scared to go back to Poland? Just don't see any

reason to go back there. Honestly I wouldn't want to. It's just there's too much pain connected to this country. And yeah, and it's just, it's, it's coming back to the surface when I think about it. And there are so many beautiful places in the world that I would rather see. How many different times did you experience assault from Harvey? Well, the two times, two times that I can call assault. And then just for the, so that, so the audience knows, cause you know, they mentioned the journal, it was the way she tried to use that against you is because she took this one specific journal that referenced other assaults or other trauma that you experienced, but not the ones with Harvey.

So the, they try to imply that if Harvey had done something to you, it should be in this specific journal. Yeah. But you know, I was very consistent with my testimony in front of prosecutors and grand jury. I told at the beginning that I've never said anything to anyone before 2017. The journal was written in 2015. And it was for people who are familiar with AA stats. And you know, you write resentments and you write your fault in the whole situation, his fault and what would be different.

And my sponsor was a film producer. And these other two men, I was not raped by them. They were sexually aggressive to me and that's what the journal said, but nothing happened. And I never spoke or saw them again. So it's just a completely different story. Like Harvey assaulted me twice, but also what he did to me psychologically was very important to me. So it's both of these things. So yeah, I guess that's it. That's what happened and it could not be explained well. I have not seen this journal, I don't know, nine years, 10 years. And so I was like completely in shock when they showed it to me in court.

And I kept on asking, like, how did you got it? Where did you got it? They say from my sister. So that was one point I never asked for breaks when I was on stand, but that was one point when I did ask for a break. The most recent trial for Harvey just recently ended. Yep.

And there were three victims, including yourself, who came forward with their stories of their assault. And if I got this right, he was convicted on one of them. There was a mistrial on the other and then was acquitted on your charges. However, it seemed like all the victims, credited you obviously is that, the belief that while maybe he wasn't convicted

on your charges, that without your testimony, he might've been able to beat all of them. That being said, what was that feeling like or the impact for you having to go through all this trauma, relive this experience, having to be cross-examination, having to have betrayal of your family? Were you still able to feel victorious in this despite his acquittal? I guess psychologically, what was that like? Cause it must be kind of a mind fuck to try to, you know, see a silver lining in such a horseshit of a situation. Yeah. I mean, just like, what, what, what was that like?

Yeah. Um, when I got, when I heard the news, um, I froze and I was like, this is not happening. When I first heard the verdict, this is not happening. When I first heard the verdict, this is not happening. And immediately I got so upset at my sister and at that, because it really was a lot of work from the whole DA's office. So many people were involved. And I've been listening to these people first time in 2020. Now in 2024, I have repeated my story many, many times. So I mean, what I'm saying is that I guess in a way, which might sound strange, but in a way, if they would just say,

you testified the way we prepared you or the way we spoke about this, they didn't find him guilty. It would be hard, but it would be like, maybe you just don't believe me. But I know for certain that this one, because the jurors were talking about this, it was the journal and her sister. So I was just really mad at her, really mad at her and extremely hurt. But then when I thought about this, when I think about this in a big picture, really I am happy that I testified, I told what happened and I can just close this fucking hell of a job through my life and find love and have another baby and the big production company. That's my future. So, you know, yeah, sometimes you got to close one doors to let the other ones, the other open.

And I think that it was just like slowly bleeding in my life for many years now. So it feels like it's okay. Done. So it's relieving in a way. And I'm, and I'm really happy that his mom's guilty and he won't leave jail. Yeah. I mean, safe to say he's going to die in prison. Yeah. Not that we wish him to die. We wish him a long life full of misery and suffering. wish him a long life full of misery and suffering. He doesn't get a cheap out. Have you thought about if at any point you telling your son about what has happened, I mean, obviously this is all over the media, your name is in it.

Harvey Weinstein's name is in it. Is that something that you've thought about or are you kind of like, well, cross that bridge when I need to? I told him a little bit and I told him enough so that he thinks I'm a superhero and a badass. He knows that much and yeah he thinks secretly that I'm like a FBI agent or a police officer. police officer. Yeah, there you go. But, um, but he's, no, he's, I think he's too young. He's too young. He's six years old. Once he will start asking, like the way I try to raise him is that I don't tell him too much if he doesn't ask. And if he asks about something, I answered directly to that question. And if you will want to know more, I will tell him more. But

his brain has to put the pieces together by himself at a certain point. One stat that I found just shocking, I think we hear as the world has more of these conversations about assault and just how prevalent it is and how many brave women have come forward to start having these conversations. I don't think people realize just how many creditors like Harvey face justice. I think the stat is less than 1%. It's 0.7%. Yeah, I mentioned obviously that Natalie obviously

is a victim as well. I have a lot of women friends over the years of my life have, you know, in conversations mentioned. I mean, I don't quite honestly, it's like I don't know a single woman in my life who doesn't have some kind of story. If it's not something as horrific as rape, there's some story. Like I would say 100% of the women I know have a story about a bad incident with a man where they were made to feel even just a really uncomfortable, scared, unsafe and then obviously there's far more horrible situations. Almost none of these men have to face consequences.

As someone who's gone through the legal system, what have you learned? And clearly there needs to be a lot of changes. Like obviously the system is still flawed. The process of women or victims in general getting justice is flawed. As someone who's gone through it, what are things that you would like to see change? Or what are some things that could benefit victims so that they

can feel more empowered to come forward because it seems too easy for the people who are victimizing people to do even more damage to the victims who do come forward because there seems to be such a playbook of harassment to put them on trial in the court of public opinion. Now you see things like, you know, you can bully people online, you can, the astroturfing, you know, just that playbook of going after people as someone who's been through it. What would you like to see changed? Well, so I spoke a lot with my lawyers and with the prosecutors about this whole, the system and the situation and the system is designed to help the defendant because in the end

their life is in stakes for like, you know, life in prison or whatever else. But only in situations of sexual assaults and sex crimes, the victims are kind of being on trial, not the person that committed the crime. So I don't think, I honestly don't think that there can be a lot done with the criminal justice system. But I do think that even going to some authorities and sharing it with someone and help

because you don't feel alone. I mean, the worst part about, you can say if I'm right or no, but the worst part about sexual assault is that you feel alone with that. And it's like you're locking yourself in your own prison, your mind, your soul, it's like hurting. Yeah.

And so being able to share it is already, I think very important. And yeah, being able to share it. Have there been any, just anything you can offer? I'm sure there's, most of this audience are women. And so sadly we can assume many of them have again, a story and someone listening to this might be feeling that loneliness.

What can you offer them or just suggestions to find that courage to reach out to someone or if there's groups out there available to reach out to, what would you say to them? I would say talk to the first person that you feel safe with. If it's a group of strangers, like Al-Anon even, these are programs that are designed for spouses of alcoholics. But there you can hear a lot of domestic violence stories. So if there are strangers like that, go for it. If these are people that you know, do it. Like in my case, I was, let's say pushed a little bit first by my friend to reach

out to the lawyers and then in Poland, what allowed me to speak is that my boss at the time saw aggression of my husband and he started asking me like, what's going on? You know, do you want to talk about this? And I remember crying, sobbing, being like, I can't hold it in anymore. So opening up is like the most difficult thing, but the most important because it's never gonna get better. Like if you're in a situation where someone

is perpetually abusing their status, your position or their power or the relationship that you're in, it's not gonna get better. Unless someone will get a solid treatment, but I don't know the statistics, but I think they're very poor in success rate. No.

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like this one across thousands of shows to reach your target audience with Libsyn ads. Email Bob at Libsyn.com to learn more. That's B-O-B at L-I-B-S-Y-N.com. So now that this is finally behind you, the trial is done, what is next for you and how are you going about, I mean, first of all, I imagine there's almost another healing process from the trial, I mean, or not, or is it?

No, there is. Okay. Yeah, so what is next for you and how do you plan on trying to get through all the trauma that you had to relive by going through with this trial? I started to notice that I definitely like to spend time in solace and just reading and playing with my animals. I have five animals, even an apartment in New York as possible, two dogs and three cats.

And just playing with my kid. I think my son thinks I'm his age sometimes. He's like, Mom, you're so silly. You're so funny. I'm like, yeah, you're so silly. You're so funny. I'm like, yeah, you're lucky. But being able to not think and just follow instincts. And like, I dance, I sing. Not going to do that to you, don't worry. But all these things that are really simple and you know, simple and childish and don't involve

thinking over thinking are very healing. But also, you know, working on the things that I wanted to do for so long. And it was like, push back, push back, push back. But I'm a Taurus. I don't know if you really know yet. But I'm a terribly stubborn person. So when I have a goal, I'm like, I'm going to try everything. And if finally it will be like, no, we can't do it. Never happened to me yet, but yeah. So like really being able to be in this because films and entertainment, like what we're doing here is very

important what you guys are doing here is very important but it's also kind of a fantasy right because we you know we create another world and I mean being creative was always such a huge part of me of who I was and writing poetry making um clothes, trying to write books, scripts, you know, always something that helped me express myself. So being able to do that right now is amazing. And I keep on repeating myself that I'm doing good, that you know what, that you're okay. One of like this big successes was getting a literary agent in New York and Sterling Lord has been a company for many, many years. They represented Jack Perak,

pushed on the road to be published, Silverlining Playbook, which I love the film. I love the film. And so to be able to say that I have the same agent as them and I'm Polish and I'm here, it's a big deal for me. It really is. And then when you asked me how I felt when I heard the verdict, it was horrible, but I remembered. So during the trial, first film that I'm the executive producer all started shooting. Right now we're wrapping up,

we're finishing shooting and we're going to post production. But that gave me also so much strength and seeing him there and him being miserable in a wheelchair and still denying like, I didn't do that. I didn't do that. And I'm like, just take it to the blackboard. Please. Yeah. Did you find almost solace how kind of pathetic he looked in court. Yeah. And he like shaking his head. No, never happened, never happened. Oh my God, this was, it was just, yeah. You know, again, on the personal level of him not being convicted on the charges you brought forward,

obviously there's pain in that. But at the same time, in a weird way, if you're looking at a silver lining, just like with media being what it is in terms of like, there's just so much of it every day, everything moves fast. I feel like the final memory of this kind of all this trial will be two things. One, Harvey's in prison and he'll die in prison. And two, it'll be his victims standing together in solidarity.

And I feel like as history, you know, as time plays on, people won't care or think about what he was or convicted for and what was a mistrial. Everyone believes, I feel like at this point, that he is a monster, and then the women, brave enough to come forward, will see you as heroes, and people who have advocated for other victims, and shown the courage that you have,

and him being behind bars is a symbol of, people like him can face justice. So I feel like there's a huge silver lining there. I wonder if you see it that way as well. Of course. And I actually made a comment about that because there was a small press conference after the verdict and my lawyer's asking me, do you want to say something?

And I was like, yeah, it's a victory. It's a victory for us. And so I spoke about it and then he's Harvey Weinstein's lawyers started to put dirt on me. Being she's proud of, she's taking the victory that's not her own. My comment was don't try to separate women and split us in parts, because there's no victory for them. There's no victory. And so yeah, that is very important. And funny enough, I truly think that not that many people understand like what he's acquitted, what he's guilty.

It's just, you know, like when I think about the LA trial, I don't know what he was guilty of or not. I've heard not on every pride, but I mean, he was found guilty, that's important. Yeah. Have you connected with the other women in this last trial? And have y'all kind of, maybe even became friends? I mean, this is something obviously that, unfortunately, three of you have in common. But as you were talking about feeling alone is one of the the hardest things to go through after sexual assault and having, I bet these two women who know what it's like, have you been able to connect with them at all? Yes. Yeah.

So I know Jessica for two years, I've met her two years ago and we didn't stay in touch during the preparation for the trial because we couldn't. But we started speaking again now and there's another girl called Tarala who was in the first trial and she was big support and help and I know she spoke to Cassie and she was helping her.

So I think like we start to have this you know this connection. I went to court for Cassie, although I don't know her personally, but I know how important it is to see faces that, you know, you know, understand you truly. And we had the same lawyer, so that's also why I went there. Yeah. Another high profile case that's going on right now as we speak is the P. Diddy case. And like Harvey, he seems like he's another monster with a long list of victims. Do you feel like the bravery that you women have showed

to put Harvey behind bars has played a role in men like P. Diddy having to face justice and his victims being able to finally come forward? Absolutely. I think if nobody would say anything, nothing would change. That's as simple as it is. So women starting to talk about these things. And so for Harvey's trial, this one, there were more women that the DA was thinking about talking. But finally, I think

two others where the grand jury didn't find him guilty. So these things can be discouraging, but still, I believe it's very important to step forward. Absolutely. You know, we probably single-handedly could not, cannot change the world, but if nobody will do anything, that nothing will change. Yeah. Do you want to just put all this behind you and just kind of move forward? You mentioned you have your production company or do you see yourself continuing to be an advocate in the space? I think that with my dad being my dad at him being always advocate for,

you know, for people, I think I just have it in me. I'm like, you shall not silence me. me, you're like, you shall not silence me. But, but I don't know, I don't see myself as like, you know, the next big advocate, I want to do my things and I will always help people if they will reach out and if they will ask me for help. Because that's what I've been doing in Poland for many years, you know, working as a therapist. That's why I talk right now so much. I used to listen all the time. Give me the mic. But I also like this is part of it, you know, like you are speaking about your case and you're doing it and like you by speaking about it here, you're telling the women who are sitting at home that they're not alone, right? So you're sitting here advocating whether like, it's this big thing or not, like you're

doing it. Yeah. And I think it's what it's really important. I joke a lot. And I think it's important to show that, you know, nobody, if they would see us on the street would say, oh my God, these are the victims of sexual assaults. Right? Right. Because there's also this perception, I think, with some people that victims of sexual assaults, right? Because there's also this perception, I think, with some people that victims of sexual assaults or domestic violence have to be miserable and have to be like crying in agony. And of course, there are moments when this happens, but in general, like I want to enjoy my life. I'm glad I did that. It's passed by me. If my story can help, that's great. And I think that this attitude can also give hope to others that you can get out of that situation and still be

victorious. And I believe that I'm also doing this for my 16 year old self. I really am. The more I think about it and talk about this, and I remember myself at 16 thinking like, it's all impossible. It's impossible to be in a movie. It's impossible to be an actress. Then it's impossible to talk about this with anyone would have happened. And like, it is possible.

It takes a lot, but it is possible. I never, you know, talked, I never named the two men who raped me, but I, you know, am at a place now where like I have my daughter and I feel like my daughter healed the young girl that I was when all of that happened to me. And you know, I obviously there are several ways that people, you know, I obviously there are several ways that people, you know,

handle this, whether it's it is the legal way or, you know, unfortunately the way that I did it, which was a lot of trauma and caused definitely a life long of issues that I have to continue to work on. But I really do feel like my daughter saved and healed so much of me. Do you feel like your son had a big part in that for you? Yes, for sure. And I really love what you said, that there are many ways to deal with it. Just this system is the, let's say, hardcore way,

because also it's a lengthy process and it's usually, I mean, public in a way, you have to speak with a lot of people. But I mean, my son has definitely like saved a lot. Like, you know, I don't think about myself at first. But my son has definitely saved a lot. I don't think about myself at first. Whatever I do, I think about doing it for him. But it gives me pleasure because loving him gives me love.

And so yes, for me also, the son was extremely helpful to go through difficult things. And he was my motivation. I don't know if I would be able to leave this marriage if I wouldn't have him. Yeah. It just goes, you know, go deeper in the spiral. Yeah, like you said, it took you seeing your ex-husband doing it to your son to be like, you know,

you were gonna put up with it. Yeah. So that is, it's incredibly strong of you to have seen that before it escalated and get your son out of that situation and give him a safe and happy and healthy life. It is very strong, you should be very proud of yourself. Thank you.

I am. But also in September, we had a, there was another fourth case that was, I mean, even bigger than Harvey's case for me, because it was in federal court in New York. And my husband was trying to force me to bring our son back to Poland. And the process took two years. That's a long trial. And after the trial, you know, the judge said that I was

very credible and she believed what I said, but he's an unreformed narcissist and he causes grave risk of harm for my son and me. So that was, yeah, also when I'm thinking about losing or winning or whatever in this case, I keep on reminding myself, I've went through that and we won and that was the most important case for me for sure. Do you feel like you're able to live without fear knowing that your husband, even though a world away is still who he is and I'm guessing someone

that you consider very much dangerous and a threat. After the verdict. And again, it's connected to my sister and the verdict, which says I had a lot of anxiety and I was locking all my locks and doors and yeah, it's, you know, psychos are freaking dangerous, but I live in a building with guards and, you know, nice security, so I hope it will be safe. But definitely, I mean, I know that people that are vicious and people that want to hurt you and this is their mission in life, unfortunately, there are people like this, they will continue

to try to do that. So I'm not, you know, I hope that nothing bad will happen, but I think I'm pretty strong, I'm stronger right now. And I'm starting some big book lessons. No one should wanna fuck with you. Yeah. Yeah. Are your relationship with your sister, is that pretty much?

Done. Done. Done. And you know what, this is also a relief because she has done a lot of shit to me, a lot of bad things, but I kept on thinking a family should stick together. And like my friends, my lawyers were telling me, you've got to cut her off, you've got to cut her off for a long time before even last year. But I was still like, no, no gotta cut her off. For a long time, before even last year. But I was still like, no, no, I can't.

But right now I'm like, yeah, I can, I can. What were the other ways that she had betrayed you? Oh my God, she, she slept with a guy who proposed to me. Oh, geez. What? Yeah. I mean, if I'm talking about this, I'm going to talk about this. I mean, yeah.

She stole a lot of money from my bank account. She went behind my back with my ex-husband, like so many things. And I mean, she falsified medical documents and sent them to the prosecutors who said, we can obviously see that this is made up. Oh my God. Did she have to face any consequences for it? I'm working on that. Okay.

Because yeah, this should not. Yeah, maybe just another silver lining, as painful as it was to hear about your sister's betrayal with the journal, knowing that there were so many other ones. Like you said, I mean, it's tough with family, right? Cause it's like you only have one. Everyone tells you to look the other way or look for forgiveness,

but clearly she is a threat to you. And it took maybe this revelation and this type of betrayal for you to realize or find that strength despite so many people telling you to cut her off, cut her off. And maybe that's the victory as well. Oh, for sure. Yeah, really opening my eyes on what the situation is.

This is like Chatelle Novella with everything that has been happening, but it is my life. And now she's blocked, deleted her number, she's blocked. I'm like, I should tell a novella with everything that has been happening, but it is my life. Now she's blocked. I deleted her number, she's blocked. But the last time it was before the trial, she sent me, I think I posted something about Eden Express and the amazing people that are doing this movie. I was so lucky to be a part of that.

Jonah Howard King is playing the lead part. We have another great actor who I can't talk about right now just yet. Daniel Beckerman is producing it. He produced The Apprentice and they went very well with that. And so I made a post about that and she texted me like, what kind of a lie and illusion are you living in? And so it's like every time something good happens or I'm happy, she tries to, you know. But I think that even if it's, maybe that's also an important message, even if it's family or your

close friend who does something like that, like, you should not allow that. Yeah. As we get older, we have to realize, you know, you feel very lucky to have family that if they aren't toxic or a threat to you, but whether it's friends or people, you have to sometimes set hard boundaries and cut people off because it's a sad reality. But yeah, sometimes we hold on too long. Yeah. But it's nice to hear that you're finally free of all this, and it really sounds like everything you've been through,

and certainly that's a lot, and you've fought hard, not only for yourself, but for so many other people. It really feels like the future is very bright for you, and there's a lot of optimism ahead, and now you can focus on your son, and focus on your career and your production company, and you must be very excited just to move things forward. Oh yes, I am. I think I'm going to go back actually to acting lessons, which I did last year and it

was also part of the trial. They asked me about acting schools and I said I went to Stella Adler last year to kind of like, you know, remember everything. And they were like, you were trying to prepare for the testimony. You know, like in acting school. Like are you serious? Yeah. But anyways, like I'm glad that we can all laugh about it because you guys are talking about difficult subjects with such an ease.

And that's what I saw before in the podcast. And I love that. We appreciate you giving us this opportunity and sharing your story. I feel grateful to have you speaking about something that I am not able to do. And I'm very grateful to have you leading this charge. You're a great person to do it.

And I'm very grateful. You wanna be best friends? I do. Yes, I do. Well, Kaya, thank you again. We really sincerely appreciate it. Thank you for your bravery, sharing your story. Best of luck with everything in the future.

And again, also just congratulations on what is a victory for you and for so many victims out there. Thank you. I truly appreciate it. I'm very happy to learn what I've learned today. And yeah, stay in touch. And you have your production company. Is there anything else you wanna plug? to learn what I've learned today and yeah, stay in touch.

And you have your production company, is there anything else you wanna plug, let our audience know where they can find you? Well, my book should be out in 2026. It's about overcoming trauma through self-forgiveness and it's a book not about Harvey. So we know that. It's a book about my journey as a psychotherapist and also my personal struggles.

But I think that the book is supposed to like elevate the positive of all of the bad situations that are coming. And yeah, I have few interesting projects, another film that I am very excited, but we're just starting pre-production, so there's still time. Well, thank you again.

Thank you. We very much appreciate it. Awesome. For any victims who are listening who might be struggling with this topic, might need some help, we have some resources down below in the bio or in the description of the show

if you wanna click those. Thanks everyone. Bye.