The Viall Files - E979 - Perfect Match w/ Clayton Echard, Hannah Godwin, The Valley, Bach in Paradise & Special Forces Cast

Episode Date: August 7, 2025

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  You heard from Rachel, now it’s time to welcome Clayton Echhard to talk about his “intuition” and experience on Perfect Match! Later, Hannah Godwin joins to give life updates, talk about Perfect Match, Bachelor, and the Valley! Plus, we get into Special Forces casting, Natalie biting Nick and more. You won’t want to miss it!  “My intuition…” Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff. Available wherever you get your podcasts and YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  We’ve partnered with Mint Mobile to open a hot takes hotline to hear your scorching hot opinions! Give us your hot takes, thoughts and theories and we’ll read and react to the best ones on an upcoming Reality Recap episode! All you have to do is call 1-855-MINT-TLK or, if you prefer the numbers, that’s 1-855-646-8855 and leave us a message. Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Follow us on X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheViallFiles Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: ShipStation - Go to https://shipstation.com/viallfiles to sign up for your FREE trial. Quince - Go to https://quince.com/viall for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. ASPCA - To explore coverage, visit https://aspcapetinsurance.com/viall  Beyond Yoga - Visit https://beyondyoga.com and access a 20% welcome offer using code 'VIALL' FOR A LIMITED TIME Timestamps: (00:00) - Intro (05:33) - Special Forces Cast (15:42) - Clayton Joins (56:31) - Hannah Godwin Joins (01:07:18) - Perfect Match and BIP (01:27:13) - The Valley (01:47:49) - Outro Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @claytonechard @hannahg @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell  

What's going on, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Vile Files reality recap edition. I am your host, Nick, joined by my wife, lover, and just really my favorite person. Do you have a voice for Connor? Do I have a voice for Connor? Like when you're, let's say you're, you're, you're bickering with each other. And then Connor says something that maybe you disagree with. And then you repeat back to him.

Oh, his mocking voice. You're like you're mock, like, when you mock Connor and me like, well, if you what does he sound like in your head? Yeah, like what does he sound like in your head? Oh, no, well, we don't mock each other. Never? If he mocked me during a fight, the house would burn down. I don't mean like a fight fight. Yeah, this is like serious.

Just like, oh, remember when you said and you read. repeat what he said and it sounds like you have like your own yeah it's probably offensive yeah yeah I'm like okay you said that yeah yeah yeah yes exactly yeah thank you now is does smeggle no I don't she's like well when you said if I did not sound like that I like I did not sound like this this is how you sound this is how you sound no that's when you're doing an impression of me but when when we're bickering and I was like for example example we were because the lake house lake house is getting close to being done and you know we're making some selects and we were debating over something stupid and nick was wrong okay but you said we were the nimes down and i'm like oh my god like i don't sound like that at all like i'm not even right you can't even get into the argument because it's like what did you do i sound like that now the argument is does he sound like that only when you're angry well nicks took Nick, Nick bit me last night, so...

What do you mean? We weren't having sex. Wait, what do you mean? An intentional bite? Oh my God. It was intentional. It was, I was self-defense. Self-defense.

Was she jumping you? She was tickling me with her freezing cold hands. Oh, no. Might be warranted. He would not let go. He was like a rot-weiler. It was like, he my pants or... Bite my wife.

And he chose bite my wife. It was a soft, tickling with cold hands. I think tickling in general. Nick's job when we get in the bed is to warm my hands and my feet, my extremities. That's his job. Warm him up, right? He turns off the lights. He gets the water.

He takes the dogs out. He finds the remote. And he also warms up the hands and the feet. Okay, that's his job. He was fine. Hands on stomach and then tickling? I only tickled because he was pushing. me off of him. I love that this is like, I'm like the judge here. I'm going to say he's nicer than I am.

When Connor even barely touches me, I'm just like, will you go live a little? Go warm up before you touch me? Go run a mile. Literally come back. And you, I'm like, hello, gifts, hand warmers, feet warmers, heated socks, a heated blanket unless you enjoy having cold extremities under your warm? You want me to buy my wife mittens for bed? Maybe. I'm trying to help you. He's like, all right. here's your mittens warm up put your uniform on the floor bed I'm just saying this would save you some drama you won't have to bite anymore and it was a nibble it doesn't sound like it wasn't a nibble it was like he was like he was like he was like he wrought while he hooked on him rabbit dog literally like a pig's ear or something is crazy I need to check for rabies do you feel okay today

Yeah, I think it would go. Okay, good. I don't. Oh. Second-hand tickling. You know, you feel, you know, it's just, I never really know when it's coming. I was just pushing her off of you, not an option? Not really.

Like a nice strong arm, perhaps? Well, when you're kind of vulnerable lying in bed and I just, I'm in a weird spot, and then she gets you, and then you're kind of bare hugged and you're tickled. And you, again, like, you don't, you can't flail your arms because then you could accidentally elbow someone. I'd be aware of your surrounding, so I... That's fair. I guess.

Whatever it comes to. It was instinctual. I don't know what happened. I was trying to save myself. Nuts. That's a reaction. Anyway, we have a great episode lined up for you today. Shortly, Clay and Eckhart from Perfect Match will be joining us.

He's also known as a former Bachelor who's been through it. And he put Rachel through it this season of Perfect Match. We had Rachel on the other day who shared her truth about the, the second hand or the second round of this love affair that lasted. Third, third. Well, third breakup. Third breakup on reality TV. And Clayton has his side.

And you can just decide for yourself. We also have Hannah Godwin from Bachelor Land. Bachelor, Man. Bachelor Man acting like, you don't know. She's with us. Either way, she's watching The Valley and she's watching Perfect Match. And we're going to catch up with her, see what she's up to. Friend of Show. I don't think Hannah's ever been on. Really?

No. There's never on during her season? You never had her on? No. They just released the cast of special forces season four. I think it's season four. Yeah. And it's an all-star lineup, guys.

It's a really great lineup. It's pretty wild. It's a wild light up. For all of your reality TV fans, it's certainly stocked. We got Trisa Judice, her daughter, Gia Judice, the mom and daughter pair will join the special forces. Randall Cobb of the Packers. Damn.

All right, Randall Cobb. We have Brittany Cartwright. There's Jesse and Eric Decker. Johnny Mansell? This is an amazing lineup. Jesse Smollett. Guys, are you familiar with Jesse Smollett? Jesse Smollett who.

Fake to hate crime. Faked a hate crime. Went to jail. Yeah. Wasted millions of dollars of the Chicago police department's money. Then kind of... Now he's on. Fox. Now he's on Fox.

Brianna La Paglia? Yeah, Brandt Chicken Fry. Wait, wait. Cody, the guy who has 17 wives from Oh, Sister Wives. Damn, what a light up. Is that Mark from the Montana boys? Wait.

Mark Gustav. Tick-Tock stars are getting on. Well, Brianna Chicken Frye is on there. Well, Brianna has like her career outside of TikTok. Sure, but she's, you know, she's Mark from the Montana boys he like dated Kristen Cadillary is just like and then Eva who's Eva? Eva is America's next top model okay who's Nick Nick is NBA player who's Christy

Olympic soccer player okay now super model period who's Andrew Andrew's an NFL player oh is that Sean Johnston oh yeah wasn't Eva on um this is Eva from Atlanta yeah thank you all and ultimate girl's trip right yeah oh my god this is a great this is a great cast Cast. When does this start? September 25th on Fox. September 25th on Fox. And we will be covering.

I knew that Brianna Chicken Fry was going. When everyone thought that she was on Love Island. That was crazy. Yeah. That was kind of nice. Justin, you believed it. I did. He did.

She went out to me and just asked me if she should do it. And I didn't get confirmation that she was doing it. Only that I was like, you definitely should do it. And I think you will do well. And I gave her just a couple like tidbits and then never heard back. And then while I knew. Well, I knew special force was filming, and then she was off the grid. So I kind of assumed while everyone else thought she was on Love Island.

Well, for the people who have been living under a rock, what is special forces? What are they doing? You obviously were on. Obviously, I was on season two with my friends, Tyler Cameron and Judge Ristewa. It's, I don't know, it's several days of literal special forces training. It's not a reality TV show. It is a real life simulation. They are not engaging with producers.

They are, they are not like making. There's no craft services. There's no downtime. No one's like making you avocado. toast while you like do your makeup or anything like that you're in a real life special forces training simulation where you are you know every season might be different but like you're you're on you're going for 18 hours a day you're going a nonstop you are treated like a special forces they are emotionally physically torturing you and you're doing like challenges that special forces

training has gone through yeah yeah and at the very end it ends with them literally torturing you overnight literally like in case someone were to have like gotten captured and like they capture you and then torture you and you have to survive it and it's all about quitting it's like it's or not quitting it's all there's no like voting off or anything like that you have to and there's no incentive they all they all get paid whatever they got paid they can leave all day one and still get the same amount of money so it's only for pride oh yeah i'm out hour one they sleep at a cot there's like one you're you know going in the bathroom outside in a bucket bucket No, thank you.

And they slowly starve you over time. I'm surprised where people don't go crazy. It was a cold climate that I filmed in. I believe this is a hotter one. Oh, that's nice. It's a warmer climate. It's desert warfare, I believe. I thought they were doing jungle.

Isn't jungle should be on like the list? They haven't done jungle yet, at least with the American version. That would be cool. But I don't believe this is a jungle situation. I think this is more like hot desert warfare. Brutal. Yeah. I honestly, who do you feel like is going to make it till the end?

I feel like Jesse James Decker has some power in her And I think her and Eric are going to fresh It really comes down to like I mean obviously Eric's a former NFL player A lot of NFL players like well first of all No NFL players have made it Have passed a course Because it's an emotional test more than a physical test

Because at some point you're just like They literally are make or they're torturing you For eight to 10 days straight So it's like you're made to feel like your worst self And you just have at some point You're just like why like I don't need this kind of thing or in my case I just kept going

yeah for everyone who's listening Nick one season two Nick one with Tyler with Tyler Cameron and Aaron Jackson former Olympic speed skater she was an absolute boss Tom Sandoval likes to say he won but he didn't Tom went far did very well

but did fail the the interrogation portion of it Hannah Brown won season Hannah Brown one season one well that's the thing ironically enough the first two seasons of the five people who did pass the course between the first two seasons three of them were from bachelor nation who won last season uh last season you had brodie jenner and uh Travis Kelsey's ex yes Kayla yeah Kayla no bachelor nation contestants here uh despite their very uh successful track record did they have um couples or like siblings or like like because i feel like there's a lot of pairs of people that are

This is the first time you're having couple. So Jesse and Eric being husband and wife and you have Trisa and Gia being a mother and daughter. That's the first time I believe they've had any type of connection. Which honestly I feel like is pretty cool. I mean like they'll have each other to lean on. They'll have each other to be like no baby like push through. You can do this. Like I think it'll be interesting.

Well, it'll be interesting when one is ready to quit. Or if it's like, baby, let's get the fuck home to our kids. You know, like what I'm wondering. But is one quit while the other stage. Yes. That's what I want to see or we'll both leave because she's like, well, it's my daughter. And like, baby, what if Eric's like. like fuck this shit and Jesse's like no

I'm like can Eric really go can you really go? You know? Is that like leaving your wife on the bathroom floor while she's cooking and going to bed? Are you the asshole? Who knows? I guess we'll have to find out and see. Well special forces had Denise Richards on last season and I know there's

there's a lot of just it seems like it's getting messier and messier her divorce with Erin there's not a ton out there and we certainly don't want to speculate but it is I'm just sad to see it gets messy. She seems to be filming Real Housewives

of Beverly Hills which personally I'm just like flooded about I don't like I'm just really sad for Denise I

she always talked and said nice things about Aaron when any time she talked to us about them publicly privately

and it sounds obviously there's like you know it's getting real dark surfacing from housewives where you know people are questioning

some of his behavior I don't know it's getting messy our hearts our hearts are going out to Denise this special

force is I'm locked in. All right. Well, it's time to get into Clayton Eckhart. We have a ton of questions for him. He's got his answers. Up next, Clayton Eckhart. Well, all you small business owners out there, chances are you are shipping product because

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they will certainly appreciate it. They will love it. It will last. And you will be glad they look better than they dress. Now, stick to the staples that last with elevated essentials from Quinn's. Go to quince.com slash V-I-A-L for free shipping on your order in 365-day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash V-I-A-L-L to get free shipping in 365-day returns. Quins.com slash V-A-L-L-L. Clayton Eckart, welcome back to the Vial Files. Good to be with you. I feel like you have a lot to get off your chest. you doing. I'm actually doing really well. Yes, I do have a lot of thoughts. So I'm happy to dive through or into what was going through my head as we all watched the show. Your intuition. Holding with Rachel. Yes. My intuition, which yes, I was leaning on and yes, that intuition was rooted

in reasoning, which I'll give a little bit of insight to. But yeah. Well, let's just start with one. I mean, what made you come back for another tour of reality TV. Obviously, we have followed your journey with great interest over the years. We've laughed. We've cried with you. You've been through a lot and you seem to be like on the other side of things. Obviously, you had a, as I've pointed out, a tough run at times on reality TV. Certainly, and we'll get into it, you've certainly made some choices that the audience

and people have questioned, but at the, you know, we also know how reality TV works. But either way, you know, whatever you've been through, you were like, you know what? Fuck it. Let's give it another spin. I'm curious, it's like, what were your expectations going in and just like, what was your reasoning for just kind of giving this crazy world another shot? Yeah. The biggest reason for me to put myself back out there was to be able to put the 100% real

version of me on camera. I feel like when I was The Bachelor, if I'm comparing myself from then to, now. I felt that I was maybe 80% myself on The Bachelor. And it's because I lacked self-love and self-confidence. So in the last few years, I've done a lot of work on myself. I've went to multiple different therapies. I've done a lot of healing modalities. And I acquired a self-love and self-confidence that I don't think I ever had in my life. So I am proud of what I've become. And I thought, hey, like, let's give it a go. Let's see maybe if this time or I jump back on TV and it's a better outcome.

If nothing else, at least people are going to see the version of me that I'm proud of. Okay. I love that. So given that, like how did it go for you from your perspective? Obviously, we got to see you come on the beach.

You first match with Juliet. That seemed like a budding relationship. It seemed like there was some chemistry there, some mutual interest. And then obviously Rachel shows up to maybe a lot of people surprised. Maybe, you know, maybe everyone's just like, oh,

those Netflix casting. people got us again. But yeah, how did you feel the experience went overall? And obviously, I don't know if you listened to our episode with Rachel, who was here the other day. She certainly had her thoughts. And so I just would love to get your side of things. Yeah, I did listen to what she said. And I felt, I feel it's fair. I feel really any of the ridicule that I see online right now is fair. My experience was great. I actually really enjoy. it. I journaled throughout the process and when I left the show, I was super grateful to have been through it all. Unfortunately, I'm not, yeah, too happy with the edit, but I'm not going to

sit here and dodge responsibility. I just thought it went differently and thought it could have been portrayed differently. Ultimately, though, you know, we understand that they only have so much time to use when they air these episodes. And so there's always missing context. Understood. I'd love to get, I'd love to hear from your perspective how you wish it was portrayed or what we didn't get to see. But before we get to that, I think just like the obvious questions and like criticisms that like we had when we had Rachel here was kind of like, what the fuck? Why did you like, what made you even want to pursue a relationship with Rachel? And And just, you know, given the history that you guys had, listen, I'm all for people changing their

minds. I'm all for people like having, you know, like, you know, I understand these moments can be intense. But like talking about a guy like yourself who has like done the work, as you said, and gotten therapy, your choices, I guess, the best way to put it at me, be seemed to lack a sense of like empathy for or just, or just an awareness of like the potential hurt that you could cause Rachel, if you were to like swerve or have your intuition take over, and at that risk, why even bother matching with her night one? Because it seemed like if nothing else, and again, maybe you have some notes of how the edit was, but it seemed like you pursued that match and that you very much, certainly it was, if nothing mutual, but like you, you didn't seem

like you were being dragged to match with Rachel. It seemed very much something that you wanted to do, something that you wanted to pursue. Like you said, things like we've both are different versions of ourselves and I think we owe it to each other and things like that and that seemed like you trying to convince Rachel to match only for again the next day. And I think a lot of people who are familiar with your two stories were just kind of like, what are you thinking, Clayton? So what were you thinking? Yeah. So of course, it was a major surprise when she showed up. Maybe I'm naive, but I really genuinely did not expect her to walk through the door. I didn't think anybody else would be coming from Bachelor Nation. I really thought

like they had told me, hey, this is a new concept we're doing. We're pulling people outside of Netflix. And so I thought, yeah, I mean, I'm sure I'll bump into people from other shows, but nobody from my past, let alone one of my exes. So when she walked in, it was a rush of emotion. You know, it's all the feelings that you once had, they come back up. And I think most of all of us can relate to this. I mean, how many times have we went back to? to an X. How many times have we bumped into somebody to a couple years later and felt the feelings rushed back in? Maybe we bump into them at a bar and we decide to sit down and have a couple drinks. And, you know, all of a sudden, you start to be like, oh, maybe time has passed. Things

have changed. Like, I've changed. I know how much I have. Maybe she's changed a lot. Maybe now this is the right timing for us. So that's what all went through my head. And of course, I mean, I did think ahead. I thought, you know, what if this doesn't work out? You know, what could, you know, be the impact left. But I felt personally, which it was shown, I did say, hey, I can't promise anything. You know, that to me was a safeguard I was putting out there to say, hey, just so you're aware, I can't promise anything that this is going to work. But I feel like we're here for a purpose, which, yes, my screen saver really did say everything happens to reason. And I truly do believe that. So people can laugh at that, but I truly believe it. So I was like, hey, we're both here.

This feels impactful. And I didn't have a strong match with Juliet anyways. So it was like, look, I feel the feelings right now. I'm excited to see you. And we had to make a decision that night. And, you know, I only had maybe an hour to two hours once she walked in the house. So I made a quick decision, you know, but my, what I thought, and I didn't kiss her that night at all. I didn't kiss her when we got into the room.

I didn't do anything with her other than talk. And then we cuddled and fell asleep. But I was purposely like, look, don't kiss her because I want to be very cautious with proceeding. I don't want to hurt her. But what I will say I was surprised by was the intensity of her emotional response when I did then the next day say, hey, look, I don't think this is going to work. And how I got to that point was through the conversations we had, my intuition, the things that I'm looking for in life, prior experiences, the conversations her and I had, there were

things that were said that I said, yeah, this isn't going to work. Like I know what it is I'm looking for and things have changed. We've changed. It's not going to work. So I woke up. I said, okay, I have this feeling in my stomach that this wasn't right. I still waited for most of the day just to make sure that that feeling stuck and it did. So that night I told her. And I think again, if she would have just been like, okay, yeah, I understand. I thank you for telling me early and that was it. It wouldn't have been a problem. I don't think anybody would have had an issue. But I think it's because, you know, the intensity. Do you think her, so why do you think her intensity, as you claim intensity, but like, why? I mean, I guess if someone were to say,

why isn't she entitled to her response or to feel blindsided, like, regardless of you, like, not kissing her or things like that, as you acknowledge, like, you guys went through a lot together there's like some traumatic experiences and it's you know it's one thing to say at the end i can't promise you anything but like you must know that like in these kind of moments that's not what people are hearing they're hearing the things that all everything leading up to that that you said where it's just like we owe it to each other and i think we should match and there's a i'm feeling something very strong here can't promise you anything but like i you know it's just like she's not hearing that you know she's yeah i mean yeah and then there's like also the potential

public embarrassment, obviously, that she must, you know, feel like to trust. There's a level of trust you, I guess you asked of her that night, right, to match. It's like, hey, I can't promise anything, but like at least let's trust to explore that. You know, and like, you know, she, she must be allowed to feel a certain way, including maybe even embarrassment if for no other reason, like, hey, I'm like, whether he meant to or not, this guy played me or I fell for it or whatever she felt like I guess why are you suggesting that that was a bit of an out of pocket response by her um yeah I don't want to say out of pocket she's entitled to like whatever response she wants to provide what I will say is I had felt that it had been

three years so while emotions were coming back I still felt hey it's been three years and the way that I thought she would respond was not I thought it would be different than how it was on the bachelor because that was intense but we had you know a lot of interactions leading up to that point and this is maybe this is just wrong of me to believe but i felt like time had passed we've only been here for less than 24 hours this isn't the bachelor so i didn't expect the same response um it felt like the intensity was was the exact same and that was just a surprise to me that's where i i wait i was like look i have to tell her as soon as possible but I was not expecting that reaction.

But regardless of the reaction that she gave, she's entitled to give whatever response she wants, the only thing that I could do is just be honest with her. And I, in 24 hours, it's like, that is plenty of time to get a good intuition, you know, a good, to understand, like, this is not going to work based off of the conversations that were had and just the feelings and emotions that once they subsided, again, I think people can relate to this. You go out, you bump into an ex. You go out, you have drinks at night.

Everything feels awesome. I mean, like, this is great. Then you go to sleep. You wake up the next morning. The emotions have subsided. Rationale sets in and you go, yeah, that was fun last night, but it can't work. I feel like I didn't do anything different than that. I really don't.

I guess my question is why, you know, the night that y'all match, she expressed like, hey, I don't want you to hurt me again. I don't want to get hurt. And you reassured her that's not what you wanted to do, that you didn't have plans to hurt her. So I guess why give her that reassurance if you weren't sure what was going to happen? Yeah, well, I felt I did say, you know, hey, I don't want to hurt you, which was true, you know, but I can't promise that this is going

to work. So to me, again, maybe I should have said it in a different way. But I really felt like I was saying, look, I can't promise you think so you could be hurt. I don't want to hurt you, but I don't know what it's going to look like tomorrow. So I felt that I explained it. But again, And like, I'm not going to say, she perceived it a certain way. And as you said, Nick, she heard what she, you know, chose to hear and maybe didn't put as much weight on what she didn't want to hear. I don't know. But all I can say is, like, I thought I explained it. And I guess I didn't explain it well enough for her. Did you give further emphasis on that maybe throughout the night when cameras were down and y'all were just spending time talking? Did you put further emphasis on like, hey, I, again, I like don't know what's going to happen with this or did it, did y'all just not even talk about your connection really at all? conversation that everyone saw, yeah, I did say like, hey, look, you have to do ultimately what's best for you, which I believe they showed as well. I said, look, I respect whatever it is, you know, decision you make. I just feel like right now, you know, it's by no accident that we're here. We did talk, yes, later that night. And I, again, felt that she expressed

her concerns. And I said, I totally understand where you're at. This is scary. There's a lot going on right now. I'm feeling a lot of emotions and you are too. But, but, you know, but. I think it's worth giving a chance. So I, again, I can't remember fully like that second conversation. If I was just like, hey, I can't promise you anything. I can't sit here and tell you that I did. I say that I'm not certain. I just was like, hey, you have to do what's best for you. I kept reiterating that and said, I just feel like, again, I'm in this moment where everything feels not accidental. And so I'm just questioning why you're here and so am I, why we both accepted to come.

Why feel the need to match with her that night? Obviously, like, if she matched with Freddie, she still would have been in the house, y'all still would have been able to communicate and catch up and kind of see where that connection was. You didn't necessarily have to match that night. Were you worried that maybe she was going to go home if you didn't? No, that didn't have anything to do with it.

I didn't even think that she was close to matching with Freddie because I didn't see those conversations until I watched it with everybody else. So, yeah, why not just let it play out? Why not? Yeah, were you, so you were afraid she might go home and you would lose that opportunity? No, I just, I didn't know, like, or was paying attention to, like, what was happening. She walked in. I said, hey, like, I had a conversation with her.

And then I went and talked to the guys and was saying how crazy it was. Meanwhile, she's had that conversation with Freddie where it did seem like they were potentially interested in one another. And she could have made that decision right there to say, hey, I'll just match with Freddie and, you know, give us a chance. And if it doesn't work, maybe Clayton and I can, you know, work this out over time. So she had that decision to make, but, and I, and I didn't realize that seemingly was getting that close for her to match her, I'd have been fine with that. I think, again, it was no surprise based on Juliet and I, like, both of us were just like, hey, look, we end up being the default match. So, like, let's just, let's give it a shot. Yeah, we end up having a little

bit of chemistry once we pissed, but it was still like, I had it in the back of my head, I'm like, she's going to send me home at some point. When she didn't send me home after the date with Carrington, I was actually shocked. I was thrown off in the house. I'm like, I have no idea why she kept me because we didn't have strong chemistry. So that was, that threw me off. But I figured she was going to send me home if I didn't send her home first. It was like, we're going to be one or the other.

There was no connection. You mentioned earlier, obviously we've teased about, you know, the intuition. But you said moments earlier that it sounds more like she said something that, you know, I don't know if it was a trigger or it certainly you clocked it. You implied that something specific happened, which is like not so much intuition as opposed to like you just got like a vibe that's not going to work out, but something was said that made you think maybe this connection isn't what I thought it was. Or could you elaborate? Yeah, I'll elaborate a little bit. Look, like there's certain things that privately, I would say

and I wouldn't say publicly. And there's things that, you know, again, like I maybe not even say to her. And so intuition is the safeguard to basically say, this is the truth. Like, it's a feeling. I've taken a pulse on the interaction. I've listened to what you've had to say, the way you say things, you know, your mindset where you're currently at, your lifestyle. And ultimately, I said, look, like, my vibe and your vibe is not matched. Three years later, I wanted to see if, like, I've changed, you've changed. Will our vibes match? I'll say this. The lifestyles that we have wouldn't match and that was part of it but there was a couple other things as well and I don't feel comfortable saying I understood in that publicly did you tell Rachel privately what those things

were no and I don't think I can um why because I don't think I don't think that she would receive them well I think she would feel like they were an attack if I were to say it coming from me um so I feel like it'll be something that she'll understand maybe over time or ultimately you're just you don't you don't feel like you're compatible with rachel essentially that's what it is i just the exact reasons it's like look i don't feel like i can sit here and tell you because i don't think you'll receive it in the way that i would want it to be received so therefore i just i bet it's just better off to leave it be and be like look i had to do what i had to do but it wasn't going to work and that's why i tried to cut it as quick as possible

do you at least like understand that like i get what you're saying in terms of of like, you know, again, you have a right to have feelings change. But I think for a lot of people, like the disconnect is just more like, I think, again, for someone, like, I think you've clearly done a lot of work and introspection, but it just seemed to lack, you know, the consideration for like, if my feelings, everything you're saying makes sense, right? Like, you went in with some questions. You weren't even sure about like Rachel's lifestyle, as you suggested.

But just knowing that there are a lot of potential pitfalls to this, like, surprise that that like understand your excitement, you know, understand the analogy you gave about like, hey, people like sometimes you run into your ex. But like, you know, there's a difference between quite honestly like being 20 years old and running into your ex and being in your early 30s and running into your ex. And when you're 20, it's kind of like, holy shit, I'm feeling all these emotions. I don't know what to do. Maybe it means something.

Like, I guess let's just yolo and figure it out. And when you're in your early 30s, you're kind of like, all right, I'm feeling some crazy shit. But like I, you know, I'm caught up in the moment. And that kind of emotional self-awareness, I think, is the difference for a lot for a lot of people when it comes to, like, emotional maturity and actual growth. And I think, at least what we saw, it seemed to lack that empathy or that perspective. We're like, you're seeing it through your lens, totally get it, like it's your lived experience, but you seem to not put yourself in

Rachel's shoes, again, knowing, like, I might, I might spend the night with her. And if I find out that like, you know, that she wants different things in her lifestyle. That's going to drastically change how I feel. And I might be breaking up with this person again on camera and make her feel very foolish and make her feel very embarrassed. So maybe I need to hold back and just like, if we both get to stay here through other people like Juliet saves you and Freddie matches with Rachel, maybe we'll get a chance to like talk some more. Maybe then I'll pursue it a little bit more aggressively, but like you went full court press and it seemed to lack, again, that like consideration for how like this could play out from Rachel's point of view. Yes. I think that's

all fair. I think you said that very well. Look, as my emotional intelligence improved since The Bachelor, yes. Do I have a ways to go? Yes. Okay. I definitely do. Fair enough. I'll say this. I grew up a people pleaser. I grew up not feeling good enough. I used to be really small. I used to get bullied. I was called Big Brother by girls. So I basically was friends owned and I was terrible at sports. And so I went on a mission at a young age to basically prove to people my worth. And I felt the way that I did that was like by punishing myself, going into the gym, you know, working out seven days a week, two hours at a time, then basically looking in the mirror every morning and be like, you're not good enough. You got to do more. You got to look better. You've got

to be a better athlete because like again, my seven great self said all my, you know, at that point, all my value was based in sports and relationships. And so I went on this life. long mission, going all the way to the NFL, even though I didn't really even love the NFL. Like, I just went to basically say like, hey, am I good enough now? I made it to the highest level. And then I become the bachelor. And it's like, okay, maybe girls will now see me as no longer the big brother. But I subjected myself to like all this pain, you know, hours in the gym, the micro tears of the muscle to build it back up, like telling myself I'm not good enough. And I say all this because I basically use pain as a driver. And what I've realized recently

and through this experience is that because I was always trying to prove my worth, I was very narrow-sided at times, and I was only considering my own thoughts as opposed to being able to step back and look around and say, hey, take a deeper dive into how this is going to impact other people. Because if pain's my main motivator, unfortunately, pain comes with a side effect of harming other people. So this experience was definitely eye-opening. I do agree with you that, yes, like everything you just said, I didn't go to that extent. And I agree with you that I could have or should have. And I hope that going forward, I will, you know, it's just in general, like not off-routy television. I have improved my emotional maturity, but I'm still not where I want to be.

Understood. That's fair. Backing up to when I asked you about, you know, whatever happened that night with you and Rachel, maybe Rachel doesn't give a shit. Maybe she doesn't want to know. but don't you think that if Rachel wants to know like she deserves to know and don't you think maybe it's not like your place to assume what she can't handle? You're very, I feel you're very wise, Nick.

I'll give you credit. You told me on here after I was hesitant to come here in the first place. Well, you do, you must know, we've talked offline. You've been through it. I've been through it.

I've been through it. I'll give you credit. People don't give you credit sometimes. They like this. You're a wise individual. So, um, Thanks, Clayton. But I'm rooting for you. And I think, you know, I do think you are well, in a well-intentioned man. And I think sometimes you make mistakes. And sometimes I don't think you think you think things through. Or sometimes I think, you know, like all of our, you know, we're the main character and our story. And I think we all kind of forget that. And everyone who goes on reality TV is a bit of a main character syndrome. But that of being said, I do think you're a good guy who's like just stepped in it. And I think you're well-intentioned. And so I appreciate you coming on. But like, I do want to challenge you because I think you're capable of being challenged yeah and i to answer your question if she wanted to know i just

feel like it's a really hard conversation to have and i almost would feel like hey could i talk to somebody close to you and see like if they feel it's it's like if i should bring it up directly like again it's it's i'm trying really i know this is making it more like mysterious but i just um i just don't know if like it would come across in a way that wouldn't be perceived as an attack um i i i I'm like, I don't know if this is meant to come from me or if this is something that she's meant to just find out over time. I know I'm not. I know it's a really weird.

This is being so cryptic. I just, it's just deeper rooted. And it's something that I flocked. I guess that's what people are nowadays saying. But I just felt like, look, like our energies aren't aligned. And it's just going to basically, I can see, I can see this would cause issues if we were. Sure. Well, maybe she doesn't need to find out over time because maybe it's just,

your opinion and maybe other people Yeah, correct. And she might say that's okay, thanks, but that's I don't agree with you and okay. Totally. I'm just saying like if she wanted, if she If she listens to this interview and she's like motherfucker like what? What did I say? What did I say? Like what was the problem? Like can you

tell me? I'm assuming. Yes. You would. There's yes. I mean, yes. Yes. Probably yes. Again, I this is new to me. I don't, there's certain these conversations that you know, some of the stuff is like I've not ever went to this depth. You know, I've learned a lot in last few years. And I'm having these deep intellectual conversations, which I never had growing up.

I grew up in a household of boys. We didn't talk about emotions. So I'm still learning. And I think that's where sometimes my bluntness gets me in trouble because I say something. Like, I want to highlight something that I heard on the interview yesterday. Perfect example. That I said, and it was aired, I said, everyone seemed to see, like, you know, something I didn't. When referencing, like, my Rachel and I's connection, that was very poorly said.

I understand why that came across is that it was like, what? He didn't see it at all. And then I heard Rachel say, like, you know, we had a strong connection. I don't know what he means. Like, he asked for my hand in marriage with my dad. And I was like, and I just, I watched that when the show aired. And I was like, that's not what I meant like that. But I understand that looks, that was poorly said.

What did you mean? What I was trying to say was basically, I made the decision to be with Susie. And everybody, you know, I kept hearing chatter online. Everyone's like, he made the wrong decision. Like, does he not realize how strong his connection was with Rachel? And I knew it was very strong, but I also feel, again, like, what people saw, the edit made it seem like Rachel and I had a stronger connection when I felt that, like, my lived experience, I had a stronger connection with Susie. Then Susie says, well, no, I think you had a strong connection with Rachel. And I'm like, no, I think you're looking at the edit.

Like, I lived all of this through. And my connection was stronger with you. So when people kept saying it, though, it started to infiltrate my mind. And I'm like, maybe because I'm going through this process, like, I'm willing to say that maybe I was wrong. Maybe I wasn't seeing the right things because I didn't have the emotional intelligence. So maybe like I need to listen more to what the majority is saying and give it a second chance. And I guess this is my second chance. Like the universe has brought me here to now be able to give it, give it a second go.

And then if nothing else, find closure, which, you know, I think we've heard and I both found. But that's what I was trying to get across. Of course, the way I said it, I was like, yeah, that was her four word choice. Okay. Okay. Is there anything else that you watched that you wanted to clear up of just like, that's not what I meant. That's not how that was supposed to come across or they edited that wrong. Was there anything particular that you felt you wanted to clear up before we let you go? So basically like after Rachel and I broke up, or like I was sorry before that, but like when I was like, okay, I'm going to do this. I went on, yeah, I won the kissing challenge. I went on a date with Sandy that night. That whole conversation was very. friendly and cordial between the two of us, which I'll just say it didn't come across that way. But there was nothing other than me saying like two friends talking and being like,

hey, I need to do this. And I hope what I said was I hope that there's four men on the board tomorrow because the only way that I feel I can make this right is by basically putting her on a date and taking myself out of the house. Then she asked me, well, what happens if there's women on the board? and I said well I don't know I suppose that I might maybe I'll put myself on a date so okay the first part wasn't wasn't shown this and I think that matters in my opinion because on one end it looks like I was like yeah I hope there's girls on the board tomorrow I'm gonna pick the girls and it's like that's not the way that it went it was like hey I hope there's men on the board and then Sandy asked me well what if it's women and that's that was you know the part that people saw but I think that matters I'm like on one end it looks like I was hoping for some you know for women so I could move on and just like screw her when the reality was I was like hey I hope it's men I've made a mistake I need to like make do right by her if that conversation was just strictly friends between you and sandy why ask her to match with you I can only speak on what I experienced okay okay understood

I think it matters less honestly than we talked all the other stuff on you're right I think of course my emotions had the best of me that's why I originally canceled this interview on Saturday. I was pissed. Watching it with everybody else and I was pressed and pause. I'm like, there's no way. Yeah, because to me, like, that says whatever, whatever you lived and whatever it was shown. And like, again, like,

with reality TV, you know, you're spending a whole day. There's 50 characters or whatever, and it's all condensed into one hour of footage following stories, right? So, like, sometimes there's an emphasis to, like, make a point on, on a moment. And I think the point

that really, like, I think all of us are trying to like are focusing on and why our latter questions is like again just your thought process the night of running into rachel and all the things that you said to her to get her to match and and what comes across the next day is you know a kind of sense of um it's not that big deal or you didn't totally understand the the emotional severity or the potential risk that you might be causing someone and i think that part with Sandy is this kind of an emphasis on like, what's the big deal? And it was, right.

Yeah, it's where like I placed emphasis versus somebody else. Absolutely. And look, this is what I will say. Watching it, I am not surprised people are mad at me. I watched it and I was like, yeah, that doesn't look as great as what I hoped it would have. So I am not upset with people and that's why my comments are open and people are tearing into me. And I'm like, look, I understand. I get it.

I'm just trying to, I did what I thought was. best and that's all I can do. And I stand by that. So I, I, you know, it's just, it is what it is. I mean, I have an opinion and these are my opinions today I gave them to you. You can take them. You can leave them. It doesn't make a difference. I'm just, there was certainly nuance, but reality television isn't really a place where nuance exists. They only have so much time to show. One last question before we let you go, Clayton, because I know you got to get out of here. But you, you thought everything Rachel said was fair on the show. Why unfollow her after listening to our episode with her. Because there was some things that her and I basically made up the next day.

I apologized to her. She apologized. That wasn't shown. And we made amends. We ended up hanging out like a day or two once the production ended at the resort. And then we did pickups. And one of the things that she said, which was aired, the part about Clayton, you know, I'm looking for a man that's kind and takes care of me, the opposite of Clayton. That was said, after her and i made amends and i didn't like that um to be honest with you i thought i thought we were cool like and then you go ahead and take a shot at me on camera two days later um that bothered me uh and i just felt like i i felt like i was like you told me one thing but then when it comes time and the camera's back in your face you you took an unnecessary shot so i just

i just didn't like that and i'm like look your words do hurt me people are going to side with you when you say that and they're going to say yeah he sucks so that was well fair enough okay Clayton I appreciate taking the time. I know this isn't always easy, but I think you definitely mean well, man. And, you know, I don't know. I'll still bet on you over Daniel, you know. I appreciate you guys for letting me voice, you know, the way that I feel.

And again, like, you don't have to agree with everything, but I do genuinely appreciate the respect that you give me to at least voice it. Again, you don't have to agree with me at all. Nobody has to. I'm still a work in progress. I'm still trying to be better. And clearly, I can take this experience and grow from it. as I should and will. All right. You selling houses these days? You want to plug your real

estate business? Uh, yeah. I mean, yeah, the real estate's popping right now. I'm selling the solar panels. They got a documentary, a docu-series on the way, a podcast series over the whole paternity scandal, which will give people some background info on all the crazy craziness behind there. So there's a lot of things churning right now. How can people reach out to you if they want to buy some solar panels or a house from you? Uh, everything's through my Instagram. So if you Go on my Instagram, my bio, like, Claytonacker.com, and that's where everything's at. All right. Clayton, thank you for your time, buddy.

Bye, Clayton. Thank you guys. All right. Bye-bye. Thoughts, feelings, concerns. Jira, you're quiet. I was told that if you don't have anything nice to say, you don't say nothing at all. I'm just like, it's hard to watch where I'm just like there's zero accountability,

and it was just, it's everyone else's fault. What is that zero? Okay. 5%. There was some accountability. I do think, you know, he does point out where a lot of his issues or flaws stem from, which I do think makes a lot of sense. And I do think a lot of that self-reflection comes from therapy. And so that does give me proof that, like, he is working on himself because

he's able to recognize where certain things come from. But, you know, he also, like, him not wanting to tell Rachel what she said that made him, like, one. That's crazy. Like implying that she can't handle it. Yeah. Like, you know. It all went to shit after the kissing challenge. He rated her his second least best kiss he gave her a six out of ten and then his intuition kicked in and was like i don't like her anymore you think that was it i think that's what it was i i don't know he said she like said something or it was like very much like he's strongly implying that that night they talk cuddled whatever the fuck and rachel lives in l a i'm you know we didn't really catch up with rachel about like career plans or things she's doing with her life but

But he seems to be strongly implying that, like, she's still, quote, unquote, influencing. She goes to the bar too much or something. You know, it was very much like our lifestyles are just way too different. I'm in Arizona. I'm, like, more trying to settle down selling. It was giving that. I mean, I respect him not wanting to say it publicly, but I don't respect him not wanting to tell Rachel if she were to ask. It's like she has every right to understand, like, what she said or what she did that made him have this great.

crazy epiphany. Well, he says that he thinks that, you know, and he said I wasn't expecting her. Reaction to be as, what was intense? Intensity. It's like, you told her you weren't going to hurt her. How could, like, we're watching. When we were watching it, this wasn't going to happen. It's less than 24 hours. When we were watching it in real time. Yeah. And we're just like, no.

Yeah. Don't do it. Yeah. No. What are you doing? And this is before we thought they, like, what the hell is going to happen the next morning? And then the next morning, and we're like, no. Oh my God. As I said, I felt so bad for her, but I was also like, what are you doing? Why are you saying yes to this? But like, okay, I get the whole exes. Like, sometimes those old feelings kick back up and you're like, great. You're saying everything that I wanted you to say the first go around. Why would I not believe you were trying to lean into this? And then to just like pull the rug from under in like 12 hours. You're like, oh, you know, I really thought about it after I cuddled with you all night. And I didn't say a word that I was going to not be into this. But here on camera, I don't think. this is working like yeah because you did a really good job asking about like what was happening while cameras were off because that would have been a great time to explain to us that there conversations that were happening that she wasn't fully blindsided but what I got is she's

fully blindsided yeah no it's it I don't get his thought process at times I'm just glad he's willing he at least acknowledges it and he will acknowledge that like hey I'm gonna compare to some of these other guys like this Daniel's a dick oh Daniel is awful I mean like at least it's what we're seeing Maybe he's a delight in real life Maybe it's the edit I don't know what we're seeing Maybe Daniel relationships Or at least in this relationship

I'm just like the insecurities But just like yeah the whole like Well you embarrassed me twice Okay well No you can't sit on my lap Excuse me? He's giving her like your three strikes you're out Literally yeah

And here comes a curveball And you're not gonna hit it So get in the corner He's made her cry twice Yeah and how long have we been here? here 10 days. And then as soon as she's crying, he's like, no, no, no, wait, why are you crying? Don't cry. What is happening? Why are you crying? When he said, there's nothing to be crying over right now. And I was just like, you don't get to say that. What do you mean? You're

yelling at her in front of cameras. Yes. That's what I'm saying is that I'm like, it. Clayton's reaction to Rachel's reaction to everything just bothered me or rubbed me the wrong way because it's just like, you don't get to say what her reaction is supposed to be. you don't know what feeling she held on for in the three years that you're claiming that you're over it. And at the same time, how do you use the argument that three years have gone by so she shouldn't have this reaction? But also three years have gone by, she should couple up with you the second she got into the villa. I also didn't understand the like he didn't have to match with her. They could have separately matched and then just continued to chat throughout their time.

That also wasn't. But he also gave her no time. He literally is like she sat down and was like, so we're matching tonight. She didn't get to talk to anybody. But he was like she could have said no You know I really I think there's just a lot of trauma here And I don't I think he has a hard time seeing

Which I mean I think all these people too But he is he's going in thinking about his story Yeah And he's thinking about his experience Which they totally all do Yeah and he's obviously in the heat of the moment You know he's not being told to consider anyone else's feelings I'm also like it's I understand the edit and things can be cut

but I'm like, you did say these things. Yeah. They were, it wasn't frank and chopped to where it was like, oh, and then I added in a word here. It's like, no, these, this is the timing in which you said all of these things verbatim. So like, what are you not happy with? How it came across? Yeah. Do you see what I'm saying?

I think he doesn't, yeah, it's just like in his, I think in his mind, he thinks. I mean, I think losing the context of like that whole sandy conversation where, you know, I think that definitely like helps that conversation a little bit better, knowing. that she had like prompted. Kind of, but as I said to him offline, I'm like, no one really cares about that. Honestly, have not thought about it. It's the lack of empathy.

It's all about it. You're trying. And that's really, that you're kind of like, the next morning, you're kind of like, I don't understand why you're mad. We do have,

we do have Hannah Godwin to break down the rest of perfect match. We do. The Valley. Yes. And she'll be with us next. Well, you know how much we love our dogs, Jeff and Steve.

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United States Fire Insurance Company and produced by PTZ Insurance Agency Limited. The ASPCA is not an insurer and is not engaged in the business of insurance. Recently, I've been trying to, as soon as I get up out of the bed, to get out of my pajamas, put on a good workout set. It makes me feel like, I am getting ready to tackle the day, and Beyond Yoga is the brand that I have been pulling from. Beyond Yoga is an active lifestyle brand, female founded and female led, grounded in the value of body positivity. Beyond Yoga makes premium active wear for all from luxury soft, easy to care for fabrics and styles that serve a variety of workouts and activities beyond the mat. Beyond yoga

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to movement and community. Visit Beyond Yoga.com to access 20% off welcome offer using code V-I-A-L for limited time. Hannah, welcome to the show. Thanks, guys, my first time year. I know, I couldn't believe it. I was like, you never had her on during Colton season. Well, there is a story, but we, you know. Oh, my God.

Wait, is there a story? There's a story. No, there's not a story. There's not a story. Well, what's the story? There was one time that they were supposed to come on. Oh, Hannah backed out. No.

Hannah canceled. No. No. No. No. No, wait, guys. What happened? It's fine.

We don't have to get into it. Were you sick? It wasn't, it wasn't us. It wasn't. It was like kind of an outside type of thing. She was influenced. I wasn't influenced. I was, ooh.

Oh. Well, let's leave it. Anyways. It was so happy to have you for the first time. With no influences. How have you been? I've been really good. I've been traveling a ton.

You're a busy bee. Actually just went to Wisconsin. Yes, because you two also have. a lake house. Dylan has in me, I guess, does that mean, does that mean I have married? No, I can't say that. It's your house. Yeah.

Okay. Unless you want to get into your pre-nub. Oh, no, no, no, no. Maybe not here. Next time. I'm just kidding. Yeah, so I have a lake house now. And anyways, but it's in Wisconsin and it was so much fun.

Dylan's family's lake house. And it's just my little Midwest summer in Montana summer. Yeah, it's really, really nice. And we were just there for like three weeks. When y'all go, do y'all stay for, like, long periods of time? Yeah, yeah. It's like summer. Like, I was, like, crying, leaving.

Just because it's like, I'm not good at chapters ending. So, like, I just have to have a moment rolling my suitcase out, like, like, looking at the wall, like being like, because I write something. Do you only go once a year? We try to go in the winter, too, and celebrate Christmas or Thanksgiving. Yeah. But sometimes we've been traveling instead. So, but Midwest is quite magical in the winter, like with the snow and the vibes. It's, I have to say.

Oh, ours is going to be really. Good. Wait, when do you guys... It's supposed to be... It's supposed to be done within like a month. Yeah. Wow.

Which is crazy. Neighbors. Literally neighbors. You'll have to come over. It's going to be very oasisy. Very spa. Very. Really?

Very demure. Very wonderful. Yeah. Nick wants it to be a very spa-like there. He's like, I want... It's a vibe. Yeah. I will definitely be knocking on your door then and enjoying the spa. We got a hot tub.

The viost. There's a gym. And we can spill all the tea from last time there. Yes. You can finally tell me. You can tell me what this influence was. Well, you're coming up on a year of marriage. Congratulations.

Two years. Two years. Yeah, I was going to say. That's a long year. I was like that the wrong deal. That's crazy. Two years. Do you feel like you still have a little bit of like wedding blues?

Like, do you miss that weekend? Or are you like, oh, no, that was fun. Like, glad we did it. No, I'm so happy. that it went well and that was the stressful part of it. But now that I look back, I'm like, oh my gosh, it was the best time. Like, happy that that chapter's done. Did anything happen that looking back, you're like, oh, like definitely wouldn't have had that, would have changed that, but like, it's all fine. For sure. For sure. Dylan?

Yeah. Dylan was the issue. I don't know if married someone else. I'm trying to think, like, none of our guests had any photos taken of them. And I was like, I should have had something like set up for them or like a photographer for them because they all looked so beautiful and so great like coming down the stairs and stuff like that and we didn't think about that.

I was selfish just thinking about myself. I just didn't think about it. Comes to our wedding photos. I definitely brush through. Yeah, the friends and family. I was like, all right. Whatever. Yeah, next. Oh yeah, we look good. Yeah. Yeah. But I definitely look back at some things and I'm like, oh, I probably would have

maybe. What would you have changed? I mean, I got like out of a car. I had someone like bring me down in a car and I got out of the car like holding river and we had what I envisioned in my head to be like these really big we were on this farm so there really was like no way for me to like have this big reveal so I was like oh can we like put some doors or something that I can just like be behind the doors were definitely like smaller than what I had envisioned and so when I got out of the car no one like fluffed my dress so when I started to walk down yeah so finally I get up to where Nick is and I like turn around and like I need someone to like where's a maid of

honor somewhat because no we had no one up there with us like everyone was in seat so i was like someone's got to fix my dress so we like paused the ceremony and like my maid of honors came and like fixed my dress and then i was like wait sorry also my veil and they're like okay we're coming back so we had a couple of like intermissions because i was like we this has to be which was memorable it was which by the way that's a way better scenario than looking back and being like oh my gosh my dress and my veil exactly i was very glad i did that i like i wouldn't have changed anything I was also just thinking. I wonder what you guys did in this space. It just sounds so silly, but it is what it is. With posting it. Did you all post stuff that weekend? Or did you hold? No. Well, like we didn't do any like, I didn't have any like TikTok trends or any of like that stuff that I did. We posted like we had. We posted the night. So like our welcome party. Because we wanted our guest to like be able to post and not be like, oh wait, don't post. her she hasn't shown her dress yet you know so like we posted day of and then like kind of just

left our phones forgot about it so we weren't like in real time posting stories or anything like that i we probably should have had someone like hired to do that but we honestly we got some content up we got yeah yeah but that's impressive that that's something that like i look at other rides and stuff and i'm like should i have just like gone fully like dark on instagram or whatever is this such an annoying conversation it is what i know but like i should have just gone dark so then I like enjoyed the moment maybe and then after went for it because I literally went from wedding. Like I was still definitely drunk from the night before like at the wedding the next morning going through photos that I have to send over to get approved or like like doing my

stories and like stuff like that because I'm like, well, I already started like I've got to kind of keep it going. But I put that pressure myself. But I also like doing that. But it was just that was a little stressful. And somebody, since there was a time change, I guess they're, you know, over there. It was like 10 hours different. or whatever than over here. We were kind of living in this like La La Land. And then the next morning it was like by, you know, 4 p.m. Over there is when we have to send everything to get approved or whatever.

And so we were like fully working. But every single person in the wedding, they were like, yeah, if you guys could just hold from posting until tomorrow so everybody can enjoy the moment, like whatever. But there was one person who leaked our wedding, which is just so funny. And we joke with him about it now. yes and like Jason Oppenheim where's the camera Jason Offenheim if you're listening to this is this the camera yeah there's a camera somewhere that camera I love you so much and this is a funny joke so he was in quick story time he was in Greece and he was like yeah I might be able to make it to your wedding we're like might like okay whatever it's like whatever we're at the dinner table like I'm in my wedding dress

Dylan's in his like wedding outfit and he texted Dylan Dylan just so happens to check his phone and he was like, hey, can I, like, any chance, like, there's room. Like, we just want to come celebrate with you guys. It was, like, a sweet gesture. And Joel was like, yeah, man, sure, like, whatever. But it's, like, 45 minutes outside of Paris. They're on a train from Greece or something like that. Maybe a play.

I don't know. And Jill's like, can Jason come? I was like, I mean, yeah, sure, whatever. So he shows up and he's in like, stop. No, he wasn't invited. He just said he couldn't come. But he didn't RSVP. He didn't RSVP.

I'm also not super traditional with that kind of stuff. I'm like, it's a fun party. We're all the way out here. Sure, if y'all are around. Some people would lose their mind. For sure. None of us. Yes.

Yeah. We definitely had over film. What did he show up in? So he showed up, you know, partying. Was it black tie? So our wedding was black tie and all neutrals. Which matters. And all neutrals.

And I, and I, because I, that's all, that was my, that was my only wedding request. Really? Nick wanted it. I wanted black tie. I wanted, I wanted tuxedo. Yeah. I like it. Yeah.

And I had a friend show up in a Navy suit. Well, buckle up. Jason shows up from Mikanos. We're like, woo. Linen's. Fully linen. Like, ready to party. And at this point, we had already done dinner. So dinner was done. The drinks are flowing. Like, people are on the dance floor. He brings a date. Nice to meet you. Yep. I'm getting married today. What's up? Like, so nice to meet you. What's your name? Whatever. The date does it. Well, we, no, no, she just met his date for the first time at her wedding. So we show up and Jason, I can't believe I'm making this about him right now, but it's just funny. He shows up and Dillon's like, yo, I have an extra jacket because he had a jacket change. He goes up to the room. Dresses Jason Oppenheim in his wedding suit. Oh, my God.

It fit how you would expect. It was giving overseas. It worked. He's strong. He's strong. So, but they made it work. Like, it was like. He was like, tailcoat.

No one's questioning his shoulder with. No. It was, well, we could pull up photos or something. There's got to be. Actually, my photographer didn't take photos of my guess. So we might not have a photo. But you know, who did take a photo. The only person who missed that beginning thing of don't post photos during the wedding is the person with maybe the largest following that ended up joining. And it's Jason Oppenheim. The fireworks show's happening. Fireworks are

going off. It's beautiful. I'm like in my dress, like having my moments. The parrot trap like that's and Jason Oppenheim thinks it's beautiful too. As you should. Great. Takes a video. fully of it oh ding posted a story nobody has any clue because we're all like partying like there's not great service whatever the next morning there's all these articles of Hannah and Dylan's wedding leaked like Jason Oppenheim linked it and I was like talking to Dylan's cousin they're like honestly if anybody leaked it at least it's Jason and it's just hilarious and it's he got us the sweetest gift from it we still make fun of him he actually feels bad about it a good a really nice earma's uh blanket so it was a it was a really nice

nice gesture and it's beautiful it's in our bedroom now it's great but it's just kind of a funny story now but it would be Jason and that's the only person who posted from our wedding. Didn't Sophia? I kind of do that it wasn't fair as well as in. Before me. And he was wearing Dylan's suit. Literally, Andy was wearing

we love you Jason. It's always the most famous one to do it. He did miss the memo. He missed the memo. Anyways. Rules don't apply. Well, you are also watching the perfect match. Yes. In the Valley. Yes. What do you think, well, I mean, obviously, Clayton and Rachel have been, you know, front and center of the storyline. We just had the opportunity to talk with Clayton.

I'm just curious, like, what, have you been enjoying perfect match? Were you, withdrawal on the floor? Yeah, were you gagging, screaming, crying for Rachel when Clayton had his intuition pop up again? Yes. So I'm a new perfect match watcher. I saw that Rachel and I'm friends with Rachel was on it and I was like, I've got to see what's going. on. And I've actually really been enjoying it. I told my mom to watch it. And she's like the biggest reality guru. And I was like, you've got to watch this. Like the storyline and the way they set

things up. Like it's just, I don't know, it's really interesting. What's funny, and I don't know, has any bachelor people been on perfect match before? No, the first time. That feels like that mean girls quote where it's like seeing your teacher outside of the classroom or whatever. Like it's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. It feels like that a little bit. It was a little weird for sure. But I like it. But I'm like, oh my gosh like the dynamics are just different like yeah it's funny to see like the the Netflix people like the too hot to handle in challenges versus like Rachel in challenges where she's just a little like oh I don't or should we be kissing right now I don't know and the too hot to handle people are like I'm going to love bomb the shit out of the people I have a vibrating anal glands

speeds or something literally and Rachel's like I'm just here for the right reasons vibrating their anal glands. Yes. Yes. That's exactly what's happening. And even during the makeout challenge or whatever, like, I'm like, oh, like, I feel like Bachelor kind of needs to be protected in a little bit just because they're, I don't know if it's like the kids at school with like different lunch tables, but like the Love Island people are definitely like they're going to cool parties. Like they're using maybe. No, for sure. You know, they're stealing their mom's alcohol. Yeah. They're doing that. And then you have Bachelor where they're just like, you can tell they're trying to kind of break this like perfect like. please just don't let me get canceled, please just don't let me, like, rocking back and forth kind of narrative versus like the Love Island people are like, whatever, like, they're like so chill and relaxed. It's like you want to be like, oh, they're not kissing good because like they're from The Bachelor. Like they are good kissers, but they're just nervous right now. Like kind of like, and love island people are used to having but holes in their face while making out. Yeah. Exactly. So the dynamic has been, I've liked seeing them on it. And I feel like they're kind of like opening up and like getting out of their show a little bit. but Rachel shouldn't have to go through this thing again with Clayton to answer your question.

It was crazy. No, it's insane. Clayton, when we interviewed him, he said he was surprised by Rachel's intensity. Intensity by how her reaction the next day. He thought it was a little too intense. I think that tracks based off of what he, like, tracks in terms of how he has been responding to things. He's kind of been his own la la liens. He also said that she had like said

something or he alluded to like him finding out something that like really turned him off. And he wasn't comfortable telling Rachel or the public what that was. So we're all at a little bit of loss. We're all confused. It was giving like she wants a party and I don't. It was giving like maybe I don't know her breath stunk or something. And he's like I just can't tell her. Like she will take it as such an attack. I can't. It can't come for me. He was like, I honestly want to tell someone close to her. Oh, what? I feel like it's giving. He thinks that she cares what people think and he doesn't. I think that she's kind of going into that like love island energy realm and he's still stuck in like perfect la la land. I really enjoy talking to Rachel because like

Rachel came like when, you know, Rachel and I had a bit of fun because like when we're obviously when Rachel is a bad charrette as you know, like we cover this as the show and we understand like we might say things. that rub people the wrong way, or they don't appreciate our commentary on the show. And like, we totally get that. And obviously I think Rachel, like, you know, I've said some things.

She hated Nick for sure. Oh, she hated Nick. Yeah, 100%. But then she came on wonderfully when she went on Bachelor in Paradise and we had a lovely conversation and we- They've made up. We buried the hatchet.

And then Rachel came in this time, kind of like, just more like, you know what? I'm on reality TV. Yeah. You know, just like, it's not that serious. I'm doing TV. I might have some critics. She was, like, just willing to, like, make fun of herself.

Like, just be fun. And it was such a 180 from, like, just how earnest Rachel was. Like you said, I think a lot of it is just coming from bachelor nation where it's just, like, you are just, you better not be there for the wrong reasons. Yes. Because if you are, like, you will feel the wrath. And I just, the emotion. I felt like it's ironic because, like, Clayton's talked so much about this emotional journey he's on, emotional maturing, suggested to Rachel that they are, both like a better version of themselves and then kind of implied to us that maybe he found

that she wasn't. But like again, seeing and talking to Rachel, just her more kind of carefree approach to me screams more like she's really matured, you know, like because you really just to do you, you can't take yourself that seriously in this world. Right. If you want to keep doing, you know, because if like I totally empathize with Clayton, but if if if your goal to come back on reality TV is to like show people who you really are you're in trouble in the place that's not in charge that edit and those people don't give a fuck you go ahead and just keep posting correct just keep posting and keep dancing and keep doing your thing dancing yeah um he's he's better off at doing a bunch of just like instagram lives than going on reality TV to show who he really is you know i i think so too

i think just showing a little glimpse of who you are is sometimes um that's the move and it's like you have control over that it's great I will say though I don't I never really liked them two together and not saying even before like when the season were happening I think and I maybe just because I know Rachel not saying that either of them are like I just don't know if I see the compatibility yeah and I feel like they just had a little bit of a comfort kind of thing but I'm like Rachel I feel like you want something so different somebody who's like exploring and like you know going out to the world she loves to travel like all these things and then well I don't know Clayton so I don't really know what he wants but I think it's different than what Rachel like. It could be a little bit different. Yeah. What are your thoughts on Daniel and how he handles, you know, some of the issues that arise with Lucy?

How does, you know, being triggered. Daniel. Daniel. He's the one who, like, he gets, like, mad. I know, I know these people. He's so bad at names. That guy. Yes. He gets, like, mad at her a lot.

For being embarrassed. Yes. Yeah. Okay. With her laughing. That was a second time. Yeah. Talking to someone.

Like, you're talking too loud. You're laughing. you're doing too much. I, that's a major red flag immediately. So she's going to be laughing with your friends and all of a sudden you kind of feel jealous or something. It's like she finds other people funny. Like, that's okay.

Right. This is okay. And I don't feel like she was giving anything more than, it was like a conversation where she's just laughing out loud. But what was crazy is like her being like, well, can I, can we have a conversation? Can I like explain to you what? Because like they're laughing at the fact that she. He has the same birth date as her very toxic ex-boyfriend and like, oh, ha ha, he he. And he's like, no, it's not a conversation. It's like, done deal. You shouldn't be laughing that loud with another man.

We're also like, what, 10 days into a dating show? Right. So I'm like, if she wants to have a conversation, she should be allowed to have a conversation. And switch up when she starts crying and gets up. And he's like so manipulative. Like the hug, it's so toxic. And be like, wait, wait, wait, no, I'm really, I'm sorry. He was wanting that out of. her. Like, you, I think that's some, like, how some people do relationships. It's like, they want to create, like, you know, a little bit of, like, toxic energy a little bit. And then they want to be able to solve it. So it makes them come closer together. And she's probably like, or I hope she's like, what the hell is this guy doing? Like, recognizing that pattern. I don't think he's a bad person. But I can tell, like, he keeps falling into that, like, dynamic, which is, I am not here for it. And I'm like, you're doing that with cameras 10 days in. You're making her cry, multiple times and it's like for what for laughing i don't know anything about her well i think what you're it's

weird because like i'm watching this and i'm also i'm like you know it's easy to be critical and watch it and kind of like and i'm always like what was i like when i was in my early 20s like if i were to come on a show like this right and but you're also like watching bachelor in paradise like that like brine and even germy it's like a lot of these men are very much giving like when it's not about them it's always like what's the big deal I don't like what what is like nothing's that nothing's that serious it's not a big deal but when they when it's emotionally about them

and they're like they turn into the emotional babies biggest babies like it's it's it's like there's this lack of self awareness about like I guess being empathetic about what it is to be in someone else's shoes but it's like it's like these young men and now are in this climate of it be more vulnerable

go to therapy talk about your feelings and they're like subscribing to that that, but like completely checking out when it's, they feel so validated to talk about their feelings. Or like that they get to use some sort of jargon that like explains it. But at the same time, it's like, no, you're just being reactionary. You're not even listening or like trying to have a conversation. It's my boundary. You're not supposed to laugh at me. You know, I'm being brutally honest with you right now. And it's like, bro, we get that. Yes. But no empathy. You don't want to understand where I'm coming from. It's just my side. I'm telling you how I feel

respected. And it's just like, okay, but there's two sides. It's like they've been told to like express their feelings for their first time. So they feel so righteous. They got the paddle of the back and it's like, all right, doing this every day. It's like you can't expect to like release your feelings if you're being an asshole and it be received by everybody. It's like you can express your feelings and maybe it doesn't come out the right way or whatever. But I don't know. I think that there's something to that for sure. He's like, I was honest. But I said the truth. But I feel like a lot of these guys are like having this conversation like in the mirror of like how it's supposed to go and then acting shocked that

there was another response. You know what I mean? They're like, no, it's not supposed to go this way. I'm supposed to tell you and you're supposed to take it and it's supposed to be okay and I'm a good guy. And it's like, no. And then like they cut to like Daniel's like ITM and he's like, yeah, but just like women first and I'm just here to be.

My mom raised me to like always treat women right. This is like cutting from yelling at her. Yeah, for laughing too loud with another man. If you have to. This is a second time. You embarrass me. There will not be a third. Literally.

Why are you crying? Exactly. If you have to say I do this. because this I have to do this I this is where I came from blah blah I'm like just show what you're doing instead of telling it and that's usually kind of when you see like oh like maybe they're just saying this to make them feel like the lie doesn't have to tell you that they're a lie and it's like you don't have to tell me you're an understanding person be an understanding person but like if I have to explain to you why your words hurt my feelings and then you tell me I'm wrong for having that

reaction here we are we did have an interesting wrench being thrown in with lucy and Daniel going to the boardroom and then being like, okay, like, who's the most compatible? And then putting AD and Madison and Freddie as most compatible. And then they're being like, okay, those two have to go on dates. And then they have, the other person and a couple has to go home. Loved it for Madison and Freddie. Yeah. Hated it for 80 and Ollie.

I mean, because they're with child. Well, I'm literally drooding for you. And I'm like, I don't want to see Ollie on a date with anybody else. But also, mom and dad. I feel like maybe they've had to have a couple of tough conversations. Oh, honey, yes. This has been airing. I can't imagine he remembered everything, he said.

Oh, you're talking about... Ollie. I mean, he goes on this date with two women and is massaging them. And then they're like, oh, and like, what happened with your other... Like, they had to go home. He's like, yeah, but honestly, like, that was so long ago. Like, I don't even remember, like, what happened. This is making it easier to forget.

Huh? Cuddling with Justine. Kissing her? And then waving to the... camera, him going, you're so sexy. And the look on his face was worth it, though, when 80s walking in, I'm like, oh, my God, I need the next batch to drop immediately. Question for you.

Because, like, you met Dylan, you're now husband on the beaches of paradise. Can I just say I watched it and loved it? And I'm just loving that you guys are just like, oh, really? Yeah. Thanks. I don't know if I've really watched it. I think it was the last great season. It was a good season.

It was a great season of paradise. Yeah. My question, kind of to, you know, Natalie's point. it's what did you guys have tough conversations because when you get asked like when you're the lead like what did you do you want to just be like yeah of course I like kissed people like you know and you're not sure how much they want to know but then when you watch it back it's like oh I forgot yeah I didn't say they're like why didn't you tell me that you're just like I tried to block it out of my memory you know he's like well I really got up in there in the thighs you know and massaged yeah he was really all up on them you know or like I really told her how last she was. Dylan watch it back and then have to be like, oh, yeah. So we weren't like living together yet when it was airing and I was doing a lot of traveling. So was he.

I knew like the first two weeks when there was like, you know, a little bit of chaos going on. Like I was the center of the drama. The worst weeks ever. Really. Different directions by all these men. I mean, at that moment, like whenever all of the chaos was going on where I was like in between. two guys four days in it's fine but love triangle I was I was doing like the triangle thing and but I at that part watching back when it was airing I was like I feel so bad for the villains or people that

don't look great on these shows for even a millisecond like I got lucky on my first round of like maybe they cut me out and I looked a little bland but at least I wasn't like getting all of these like crazy messages my DMs were crazy during that but regardless of that Did Dillon and I talk about a bunch of stuff while we were filming Bachelor in Paradise? Like, during it, I don't think we talked about enough things. I think a lot of things after it were like, why didn't we ask each other? Luckily, it was all pretty compatible, but you would think that we would have all of these conversations or a list of stuff to ask, but we were just kind of in la la lands.

And we did ask questions, you know, normal stuff, but it was just more like, oh, yeah, like our friends would love each other and stuff like that instead of like, Life principles. The only way to do it is to not watch it. Yeah. Like I hope AD and Ali are not watching it. Because again, it is edited. You can't expect the other person to remember every detail,

nor do you really want to hear every detail? And you have a revisionist history of what your expectations were when you watch it back and you feel a bit blindsided because they didn't tell you. Like there's no winning. The only smart option is to just kind of like, even Stephen, whatever happened, we're good. It's just, we're happy now. None of that matters. That's a TV show.

That's like the only way to do it. I will say, like, J.R. talking to AD, the man is so, it's, it's, like, he's too sexual. It's like so disrespectful the way he's just like, oh, I would love to see you in a bikini. Oh, and we'd be doing cardio tonight. Like, you're just, you're gross. It was, it's like, honestly, the first man on TV that I've seen, like, has daddy issues. Or usually it's the women talking about daddy issues and men talk about their mommy issues,

but he was talking about his dad being a pastor and how he had to like wait before marriage and now he's become this like guy who's this constantly talk like he's talking like he's talking about dignitizing people and like stealing people's you know it's like girlfriend sorry you had to wait to have sex before you got married but Jesus fucking Christ

real it in a little bit he lasted what eight hours in that house and then AD like him touching 80's stomach of like our abs like don't touch me I don't huh and even AD was like okay like moved his hand And it's like, what? He is just, I was so glad that he did not get a match. And he was on and off our screens because that man is very hard to watch.

Yeah, I was like, Sandy, what was the redeeming qualities here? God, Sandy, figure it out, honey. She literally brought that man back for herself, essentially. And then I was like, no, I'm going to stick with my guy. Yeah, I'm like, you brought him in for what? For what? I feel like Sandy was being a TV player right there. I feel like she was being a team player for the network and just, all right, I'll

I'll talk to this fucking guy. I'll, because I don't feel, you know, there was nothing really there. But Louis and Sandy, and like, he made her cry,

but also by saying that she's not there for the right reasons. Yeah, listen, I think out of everyone, I think Louis handles Mo'allie too

and Freddie too. I think he handles confrontation quite well. I think, you know, obviously Daniel, we have Clayton, you know, just some of these men

who like don't know how to communicate. And I do think he's like, Listen, like, let me preface this. You did nothing wrong. But these are just like, this is how I'm feeling about it all. I think it's like a very mature way of communicating his feelings. But I do think him being the whole like, oh, I'm going to go talk to her because she's talking to him.

I want to be a little toxic. I want to be a little, you know, is a little telling. Him and Ollie, when the girls left and did their little handshake of when the mice are away, the cats will play. I was like, fuck you both. rooting for you. Can we get a movie night on this show? Do they have like a movie night situation? They don't.

They should. But they do have AD there who's going to get all that. It's on the ground. She should be like coming back to the women with like this is what I saw. It was very messy last season. They did a very. It was very messy last season. Similar version and there was a lot went down in the.

And apparently what I've heard is that every man. The boy's boy. Don't, yeah. No one's staying loyal. Something about Louie. he's UK based, right? I feel like anytime I watch the UK shows, Love is Blind UK, Love Island UK, the way they communicate, even if it's not what you want to hear or something you don't agree with,

the way they were like raised, I guess, to communicate, it's just kind of like clear and there's not a lot of the like wondering what they're thinking kind of thing. It's like just putting it out there and saying it. And Dylan and I always say that anytime we watch like Love Island UK, we're like, they're just like getting conversations out of the way. maybe it's a U.S. thing, maybe it's just the people that are bringing on the show, but I feel like there's like this like, I don't know. So I noticed that with Louie too. I was like, well, I wish he didn't say that. But I was like, respect for respect. There's more of a self-awareness, if you want to call it

self-awareness of like in the U.S. that you're being filmed, that you're on TV, that there's going to be an edit. How you're going to be perceived. That you have like, hopefully brands coming your way. I also do you think it's hard for people in general, though, to just like say how they feel. And I think it's a lot of like anxiety and a lot of stuff that's just like, not so much that it's here base, but I noticed that with UK as well, is that I'm like, they're direct. And they say exactly what they mean. And it's not this like, okay, but she said that. But like, does she actually mean that? Because she kind of said it with the like, like, you know what I mean? I feel like here. We're always trying to like read in because

everything's so cryptic. Or like, I don't want to hurt your feeling. So I really like you. I just don't know that this is working out. But like, I want to be friends. But at the same time, if you want to go grab coffee. And it's like, what do you want? Are you breaking up with me or not? Right. You know? And like, UK, they're just like, listen, not feeling it. But like, I really wish you the best and it's like all right that sucks walk it off and they just kind of move on with the next batch come out Friday right well we have another batch of episodes coming out on Friday we'll have to see what happens all right moving on to the valley uh you're watching that did you love the valley last night I did so dark well we have a rapid recap to bring everyone up to

speed in case in case you didn't watch last night Mary Mary has a quick rapid recap for y'all all right so if you missed last night's episode of the valley here's what happened and if we can get into a moment of absolute misery we got the valley reunion part two jacks once again was incapable in every single way of seeing brittany as a person who can exist outside the context of his own narcissism and for that reason i do think it's important to point out that his lifted sneakers still barely brought him feet down floor level on the couch. So short king, I guess, for him. In a rare moment of community, however,

the Valley crew came together to honor them and mourn, the loss of the only constant place of peace for the group and the one thing that Jacks and Kristen Stewart have in common, which is a love of Hooters. And in honor of Hooters and their impact on the Valley, I would like to take a moment of silence to thank Hooters for their service. All right. Anyway, we've got Janet and Zach still hating each other. Nothing's changed there. Also,

Jacks gave a more heartfelt and honest apology to Danny for coming at him about his drinking than he ever has to Brittany for making her life a living hell. But that's neither here nor there. And although I disagree with pretty much everything Janet has done this season, I do want to give a shout out to her for coining the name Danny Darko because it's really fun and cool. and I think Danny should lean into it merch-wise. And that's maybe just something to think about for Danny. Finally, Janet and Jason decide that Jasmine's issue about Danny grabbing Melissa are actually about them. So I guess welcome to the LGBTQ plus community, Janet and Jason. Hopefully it'll make them more interesting going forward.

Overall, thank God that the Culture Awards aired right after this because I needed a break of levity. Honestly, yeah. Danny and Nia, they, Nia has the tired but happy merch. They definitely need to add in a little bit of Danny Darko. They really should. Yeah, profit off of it. Yeah, profit off at it, just a little bit. It could be like all dark colors, navies, espresso browns.

Yeah. It could look like Jacks's bar type maybe and it like slanted. Yeah. They should make like a superhero character. Yeah, and then on the back it should just say, I'm sorry. Yes, and it's him apologizing for the 900th. time. Yeah, permanently this time. Or Jacks came for me and all I got was a stupid t-shirt. Yeah. That's nice. That's not bad. Jacks tried to end me, I think, was his right? Yep.

Jacks tried to end me and all I got was a stupid t-shirt. But all jokes aside, another very dark episode. I will say for the first time in a long time, I did feel empathy for Brittany and Jacks when they were talking about their child and like just like that journey. Yeah. You know, of his development early on, only to find out like a year and a half in, you know, that obviously he was diagnosed with autism. Credit to Brittany really seems incredibly hands-on with bringing awareness to that community in the development around that. And then again, just back to like Jacks, just so dark, just so, for a moment, for a moment,

you know, I'm watching it. And I hate to admit it, but like, Jack's, because I'm watching it thinking, this isn't, It feels wrong. Like maybe Jackson truly has this has a mental health problem, you know? It's like, am I watching someone who's literally sick, sick in the head, needs professional medical mental health care, and we are watching this tragedy being recorded? And in that lens, I'm feeling just a little bit of empathy. Like maybe he doesn't know better.

And then now he's just like, yeah, it's all, you know, and then you have. Even Brittany is like, I find this hard to, like, I feel like this. is all performative. So she said that. But then when you think of it on that context, right, you think of it on that context

that like, Jacks is up there, essentially faking a mental health manic attack. And saying what he thinks he needs to say. But at the end of the day, all bullshit where like, then you must believe that Jacks, who's like saying,

oh, I miss my kid and things like that. But no, in reality that he probably does enjoy the freedoms of being a single man and enjoys like. I think he, he enjoys rage texting Britney having sex with hell of bitches yep i think he enjoys like the

control i think he enjoys the toxicity but that he can have over brittany i think he enjoys yeah being able to do whatever he wants and go and like i think he enjoys all of that and i think he enjoys having to like sit on that couch and like have these people kind of be like you can still change, Jax. There's still time and him like crying or whatever the fuck that was. And then Jason falls for it and this is like Jay... No, Jason and Jacks deserve each other. A hundred percent.

And Janet. There's Janet in there. Well, yeah. Jason was terrible. Yeah? This episode. I'm just like, I've watched Banderpumperul since the start. I've watched eight reunions, I think, maybe nine. But eight reunions where every year that he's, Jax is confronted with his terrible behavior and his

excuse every time is, listen. I know that I'm fucked up. My brain is this brain. I need, I'm a work in progress. And it's just like, how many years, year after year, are you a work in progress until it's just like, we're not working on anything? Yeah. I'm going to eat my words a little bit. Okay, here's why, there's the only reason I would defend Jason. Because at least he's having his wife's back. You know, while I, well, I don't agree with anything that's coming out of Janet's mouth this season. Like, I at least respect, you know, if you're going to be married and just forgetting about

reality TV, you got to have, you got to be a team. You got to be United Front. You have. You have. to have your partners back whatever conversations have behind closed doors whatever but like public facing like if you can't have your partners back what's the point of being fucking married this is all to say too like you because you see in a lot of reality tv people a lot of people in this universe like which is why relationships often don't work because at the end of the day there's a lot of people who who are on tv on bravo or like they're married to the job right in the sense that like to it's like there's no hey our relationship we choose us first we're going to protect each other first there's a lot of people where it's just like listen if you're married to me everything's on

the table it's fair game like we had tamara judge on yesterday and like you know whatever you think of tamar judge like i honestly kind of like respect how she moves in bravo world where it's like she doesn't really bring eddie on this make it a storyline she does there seems to be a separation like there's a disconnect okay i'm on i'm filming i'm doing tv fine i'm leaving and there's other people where it's just like everything about my life is fair game and i'm going to talk about who i slept with i'm going to talk about whatever and if if if i have to disrespect my partner in the meantime it's to me that's crazy but there's people do it all the time and it's like at least jason has his wife's back i'll agree with that but i'm also kind of like i also think that they're both

the same level of deluded that i'm just kind of like the way that he was like oh, all I hear is see is everybody else spending their time on camera talking about my wife. Like, what did she say? What did she do? And then it's like, while simultaneously the other cast members are calling out her behavior,

she's contradicting herself on the couch. And then it's still like, well, what did she do that? Like, everyone's so mad at her. And it's like, bro, I do think that accountability does matter in a relationship. Yes, always have your partners back. But it's also like, if you can't admit that like, hey, you did something wrong.

Like, you know, like let's not pretend. Like Janet was walking around this whole season, and never said a bad thing about anybody. And everybody just decided to hate her for no reason. No, I know. But all I'm saying is if Jason, if behind closed doors, he's just like, listen, I don't know what the fuck she's saying. But I, you know, but like I'm just going to have my wife's back.

I can respect that. I did appreciate Jesse in that moment coming out and being like, I will also say, like, Janet, a hunt, like, she's all, like, we're great in real life. But then watching that back, I was like, who the fuck is this? Like, at the dinner at the Mexican restaurant when Janet, like, out of nowhere is, like, trying to come for Kristen. And Kristen's like, why are you talking right now? It's like, I was glad that Jesse did put his input in because it was like, okay,

it's not just Danny and Nia and Zach, you know. Also, I have to say, as someone who has suffered through two miscarriages, Zach, him saying that to Janet is straightforward, just evil. It is absolutely evil. He's had all of this time to prepare a response. And his response is, I don't know why I said that. Like, you knew you would be asked about it. How do you have nothing to say?

And again, I'm not defending what he said because, yes, what he said was absolutely not okay. What I will say is that I'm kind of like, we watched him spin out at the finale where we're just like, okay, clearly he gets intoxicated to a point where he's saying and doing maybe even demonic behavior. And maybe Janet's justified for that. But I do think that I am like, whatever he was saying, clearly he was spinning out in a situation where Britney was there. But Janet wasn't there. And it was like, you're choosing to bring this back instead of having a conversation with Zach being like, hey, what you said was fucked up. You should go to Janet and apologize. She chose to go to Janet. Say all of these things. Then Janet's hopping on podcast saying that like everybody's wanting her baby not to come to full term. And I'm like, that's what's so dark and gross about this group. It's like, Brittany, you're supposed to be best friends with Zach from Kentucky. You should know that this is how Zach behaves. And if you think it's messed up as his friend pulled him accountable. Say what you said last night was absolutely disgusting. And I want to remind you because I want you to know how disgusting it is. She's just friends with everybody because

they haven't done anything to me to her. That's maybe my biggest gripe with Britney this season is that she's going to people telling them what her friends are saying that trust her in a room, what they're saying behind their back and then being like, well, I just said it. And it's like, no, bro. Like you either have your friends back and hold them accountable and then fix it, but you're just causing drama and then being like, oh, I don't know how that got started. I just find it interesting what issues they get hung up on. Yeah. Like it seems like what Zach's Zach's comment would be a major issue, which it is and was. But then that's forgiven. But then somebody, you know, sneaking to kill in the closet, that's also an issue. But it's interesting,

the weight that they give these issues that I think are different weights in a sense. And they're like, anyway, it's like, move on. Like, I always think that's so interesting with them. I'm like, do you guys even really care about it? Or like, what's the deal with it? It's just confusing. This is a father of four and you're using language. Like, they're like, they're trying to paint him is like, it's gross. It's gross what they're trying to do to Nancy. But they breezed over Britney saying in part one that the ring footage showed Jax throwing her into a rosebush. And it was just kind of like, okay, well, and anyways, movement on Danny is the devil. And I'm like, how do you guys focus so much on Danny and his behavior when you guys are sitting here acting like Jack's is some reformed saint doing the same thing he's been doing for over a decade?

Danny's an easy target. Exactly. He is. And Bravo, like, leans into it with like friend of show, Christina, who he had on, you know, a couple of weeks ago, her posting being like, at the end, they're putting a. alcoholism awareness like hotline and it's like the whole episode was Britney saying that Jacks has like

domestically hurt her and like has thrown things and like you're not going to put a DV hotline in there like they added a DV hotline. Yeah they did this episode. They took the note. Yeah. But no I found it ridiculous that Jasmine is now all of a sudden finding the fourth apology. The first apology

in front of cameras as you know, not genuine or as shit or whatever and being like, well, I can't believe, you know, you coming to me and saying like, oh, you're really going to bring this up. It's like, if you had conversations off camera and y'all were good and y'all'd seen each other and there was no like any more further conversation. And then, yeah, for you to bring it up on camera, I'd probably have a question or two of like, is this okay. It was her literal only storyline. I'm convinced. And this is just my own theory. I'm not saying that this happened or fact. But I am convinced that Jax did say that he's going to take down Nia and Danny.

And then I think he recruited Jasmine. I think he recruited Janet and Jason because the way that these people still stand behind Jax and everything that he says. And it's like we're all going to take down Danny because Danny and Nia have this perfect image and they respect each other and they speak nicely to everyone. They don't talk shit about everybody. So let's drag them down. It feels like it was a joint effort among the least interesting characters of the valley to try to take down. the one functional couple that actually has respect for each other. So we're Andy Cohen kept giving Jack's tissues.

When he defended Jacks being like, it just seems like, you know, I've had him on the couch many times and he's, this is the most progress. And I was just like, Andy, stop it. And also, I thought it was a very inappropriate question to ask either of them if they're still in love with each other after everything that has gone on. Thank you. A hundred percent. Let's not give room for like, oh, let's question our feelings.

The manipulation. You're giving room for him to manipulate her. sitting on that couch being like, I can't answer that. It's just too much. Next question. Next question. You're now making her question. And her having to be like, listen, the hardest thing I had to do is leaving someone that you're still in love with. And like, you're now leaving room for them to like potentially work. You know, it's like that's, that's a dangerous scenario that like Andy's putting them in of just like, do you want to like confess? Like, are y'all still in love with it? Do you want to get back? Is there room to get back together?

Could you work on this? Could you work through it? Do you want to like maybe not? It's like, this is, this is a crazy conversation. It's a, yeah. After everything that she's saying and the fact that she hasn't seen him, her voice is shaking. He hasn't made eye contact with her the entire time. I'm like, all of these factors. And you're going to ask that question to wrap up the segment? And having Brittany every time Jacks tries to like say some bullshit lie, Britney being like,

no, you have texted me saying A, B, C, and D. And then having Zach and Jasmine and Kristen, like, nodding being like, yep, we've seen it. We read it. Yep, we know exactly what she's talking about. It's crazy. The man literally is trying to get tapped. into her home cameras. Like, that is a sick person. Sorry. As soon as he said, yeah, I probably will still rage text you after this. That defeated the entire argument for me personally.

I was like, oh, that's it. You've got plans. Just don't say that. Just don't say it. But in my head, I was like, oh, okay. That's it. Do you remember the beginning of the first part where it's like she said something like she's nervous or I'm scared right now? And he's like, you should be. And it was just like, this man. There is no changing for Jax Taylor. So I'm glad that he's taking himself off the show but like this is not a place for him dark dark he's dark jacks and also wait sorry my favorite janet uh when janet said when they clocked her for deleting brittney's birthday post because she wasn't made aware that brittney made up with zach i was like jason jason what more toxicity do you need that i'm like your friend that's being like maybe i'm just a really nice person and i'm a really good

friend to Brittany, and then it's like, oh, you're going to punish her because she talked to somebody and didn't ask your permission beforehand? With Janet and Jason specifically, I don't know what they're making to be on the valley, but this can't be worth it. Yeah. Because, like, they're not getting the followers. And now you've got a stupid line tattoo. They're not getting the brand deals.

I mean, she's on a billboard with Sheena. Like, so I don't, like, it couldn't have been that much. Like, what is? I've got a shirt for Jason. I went on the valley and all I got was the stupid line tattoo. Which, that line tattoo, it's the thinnest. It looks like he's got a piece of hair wrapped around his finger by accident. It's like, that's going to keep women away from you?

Like, that's your plan of like, like, I'm taken. It's like, are you sure? Doesn't feel like you were very committed to the bit. Seems like you asked him to finish early. I will say the one thing Janet did get out of being on the Valley is that she was somehow in the crowd at the culture awards. She snuck in through the back door. They were like, Janet, you're not allowed in here.

And she was like, I'm seat filler. Well, maybe that's how they get her to come back. I mean, she's a great villain. She's a great villain. Lack of awareness is great on television. I'm just kind of shocked should she keep showing up. I don't think she hates it. I just don't know what's the point.

Yeah. Some people say, like, you know what I mean? Any attention is good attention. I mean, the fact that Jesse is like just now realizing that maybe he shouldn't say certain things about the mother of his daughter because she'll one day see them is like now. You're thinking about that. Because she gets to. He, like, tripled down.

Because she kissed another man, like, after they already had separated. Right. And you're still trying to have your gotcha moment being like, you cheated. You cheats it. Just say it. No one cares. Like, and whatever Michelle was like, he was like, the one thing I hate more or there's nothing I hate more than cheaters and cheating.

And she was like, that's funny because when we separated, you started sleeping with a married woman. So which is it? And he was like, oh, my, 25 years ago, she was not. Yeah. How old is your ex? Yeah. Yeah. I was like, wait a second.

She was married for 25 years, and then Jesse just was like, okay, I did. Yeah, I don't know. I have nothing else to say about that. So move on. Andy does move on quickly between Jesse and Michelle. I don't think he's, he doesn't really let Michelle speak a lot. Yeah, I don't understand why Michelle is so hated. I just, I'm shocked there's not more empathy for Michelle.

Yeah. I don't know how you can watch anything that Jesse does. And regardless of whatever you think of Michelle, let's not have some, like, empathy for, like, dealing with a man like Jesse like just to be I don't she gets all the credit in the world for me but my favorite too is I don't know if it was Jasmine or who is next to him but I talking about his pants and he was someone's like they look really cheap and he's like no they're really expensive now and I were talking about this last night where it's just like you know with asnick sometimes get people calling in and if like someone has like they're dating someone and there's like a relationship problem it's

always like you know you can always break it you know whatever your problem is you can get out you know and I don't know how you feel but like because you're married too but like there are some people who call in and I there are people you're you're married and you got kids you're stuck to a certain extent even if you can get divorced you know and to be married to someone like a jacks or a jesse people who are just like our emotional terrorists um and that wear heels yes tattoo heels like you know there are some people who make choices we're like this is my life and this is and i have to deal with this and there's no out brittney said multiple times she's like this is a living hell for me like That is, and you're like really thinking of like her actual day to day and with their son and everything.

I'm like, that is, it's so dark and really sad. Yeah. Her having to be, him being like, I'm home alone every night. Like, I'm so lonely. She's like, no, the fuck you're not. You don't know what lonely is. Like I am home alone with our son. Like going through all of this by myself and you're like not around.

You don't help. Jack's goes, it must be hard. That was crazy. The revolving door. of women apparently coming through his apartment, too. The way that he's just able to excuse all of his, he's like, yeah, I like, I like the control. It's somebody else's fault every time. All right. Well, hopefully, we got one more episode of Jack's Taylor and then we'll never have to talk about him.

Hopefully, he'll find his way. He'll find a way. There won't be other burdens we'll have to bear watching the show. I'm sure he'll be on Special Forces next season. How's a villain is again. Yeah. He'll find a day. He unblocked me so I can now follow what he's up to. He were blocked by Jacks. He's still got Nick Are you blocked, so? Last time I checked. Love that. Why were you blocked? It's a very special group.

I don't know why I was blocked. I think my old, like, agency that I was with, she would post me. And I, from gathering when I, this was years ago, somehow we were all at a dinner or whatever. And of course, I had to bring it up because it was like kind of trending. It was like blocked by Jackson. I was like, so why did you block me? Like, because I don't know what else to really say to him. And it's like me.

Like, I'm such a different world. like, whatever, just funny. And I think it was just because she would post me a lot. And then so we didn't want to see it. This was your publicist? Yes, at the time. At the time. Yeah.

So I was also blocked by Jax. Wow. Didn't you go on a trip with Brittany? I did two years ago. For her birthday or something? With, like the publicist that I used to be with, she brought a bunch of her clients. And so I went on a trip with Brittany. How was that?

So I'm always Team Brittany. Yeah. Always Team Brittany. Well, Hannah, it's good to see you. Yes. It was so, so nice. You guys are really great at this. Thank you, Hannah.

You guys should do it for a living, really. Actually, we were thinking about starting our own. Where can people find you, follow you, all that fun stuff? What's going on? So I have an app. It's called SETI app. Yes, she does. And it's not going to give you a BBL or, like, change your face.

It's just filters. And they're really great filters to be creative. So we have SETI app. And I'm Hannah. Oh my gosh. I used to be Hannah G11 on Instagram. Three weeks ago, four weeks ago, changed it to At Hanna G, I paid for it.

So weird. I would never do it. You lost the 11? Yeah. It was just time. It was a big moment. It was just fun. I said, you know what?

I'm an adult. You found Hanna G. And you're like, hey, babe, what? Can you take 11 and I'll take it? Somebody brought it up to me. And so I wasn't actively looking. And they're like, if you want to do it, like, we have it. And I said, let's do it.

So I'm at Hanna G. And on TikTok, I'm at Hanna G11. I couldn't lose the 11 there. You know what? I need to find whoever is Natalie Joy. And because I'm the Natalie Jjoi. you know yeah it's two ends two jays it's like it's a little bit of a stutter

you know what I'm saying yeah it does it's some different well it's always good to see you Hannah you will have to come back thank you also to our guest Clay and Eckhart for joining us as well if you did not get to listen to the Going Deeper episode with Tamara Judge it is out now it is awesome it's a it's a it's a whole conversation with really who is Tamara Judge

and I found it to be fascinating electrifying and team Tamara Check out all our amazing episodes that are out and available, including our Astnick episodes. We will see you next week. We got a great week lined up for you. It's going to be amazing. We'll see you then. Bye-bye.