The Viall Files - E982 - RHOM w/ Lisa Hochstein, Perfect Match w/ Freddie, Bach in Paradise w/ Brian, New Taylor Swift Album

Episode Date: August 13, 2025

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  It’s time for another extra special episode of RR! Today, we get into RHOM with the one and only Lisa Hochstein. Where is she at with Larsa? What is the story on her divorce? All that and more. Plus, we’re joined by Brian from Bachelor in Paradise to FINALLY learn his favorite color. And, Freddie from Perfect Match stops by to tell us about his relationship with Madison and his work as a funeral director. Meanwhile, we talk about Taylor Swift’s album announcement and more… You won’t want to miss it!  “Sean might be the greatest Bachelor In Paradise villain ever.” Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff. Available wherever you get your podcasts and YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  We’ve partnered with Mint Mobile to open a hot takes hotline to hear your scorching hot opinions! Give us your hot takes, thoughts and theories and we’ll read and react to the best ones on an upcoming Reality Recap episode! All you have to do is call 1-855-MINT-TLK or, if you prefer the numbers, that’s 1-855-646-8855 and leave us a message. Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Follow us on X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheViallFiles Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Cymbiotika - Go to https://cymbiotika.com/viall to get 20% off plus free shipping. Addyi - Go to https://addyi.com to learn more.  CashApp - Download Cash App, use our exclusive referral code VIALL10 in your profile, send $5 to a friend within 14 days, and you’ll get $10 dropped right into your account. Timestamps: (00:00) - Intro (11:27) - Household Headlines (21:39) - Brian Talks BIP (54:02) - Freddie Talks Perfect Match (01:14:05) - Lisa Hochstein Interview (02:03:18) - Outro Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @lisahochstein @freddieppowell @brian.autz @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell @the_mare_bare  

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30 seconds a day to get all the nutrients you need when you get the help from Symbiotica. So get what you need in your body and check out Symbiotica today. Go to Symbiotic.com slash V-I-A-L. To get 20% off plus free shipping, that's C-Y-M-B-I-O-T-I-K-A.com slash V-A-L for 20% off, plus free shipping. what's going on everybody welcome back to another special is it a special episode well it's wednesday and we're out there giving you content that you know and love either way we're here we're with you we have a great episode lined up for you today i'm your host nick my beautiful wife is not here today she's down bed so don't hopefully be with us soon but we love

Yeah, we love you, Natalie. Yeah. Yeah. We're transition, but anyways, you know, who is on a podcast, Taylor Swift today? I mean. When you got done listening to Taylor Swift, hopefully you tuned in. You probably have already listened to it. Will I listen to it?

I've never listened to an episode of New Heights. No hate against. I'm just, you know, too busy, I guess. Making your own podcast. Making my own show, you know. Funny guys, you know, love the football stuff. I don't know if I'll listen. I think I might.

I've had a conversation with Taylor Swift before. And I think, like, a lot of fans for, for this is like a, she's going to talk. That's what, yeah. I don't think I've ever heard her talk for that long. Like, and, like, have a conversation with someone. It is so funny for the Swifties to be like, it's a football. I think, I think half the Swifties are split. They don't know her man's show.

No, they know her man's show. But I think half of them are like the, oh, we have to listen to a man's podcast. And then the other half of them are like, oh, my God, she's on Travis's podcast. Half of him are mad. Kill a truck. Well, I feel like there's. the people that love Kilotrav, and then they're the girlies that don't love Killetrave, you know?

Killetrave. Is that his handle? Is this the first time I'm hearing this? You've never heard Killetrave? No. Well, we'll dissect that a little bit more, but just to remind you, we have a great episode. It's jam-packed, and we'll get to the interviews briefly, because we have three of them. We got Brian from Bachelor in Paradise.

We're just dying to know his favorite color, so that is why we have them on. We'd love to get some answers on what we see is just a little bit of toxicity from Brian. Maybe it's the edit. I don't know. Maybe he has angry issues. Maybe he's a super We may not find out his favorite color. Like he's still. He might, you might ask and he might just leave. He might refuse to share, you know. We're not doing this right now. We're not doing this right now. I'm done. This interview's over. Either way. It's, uh, we'll, we have that. Then we have the opposite. We have Freddie from Perfect Match. The Angel that is, that is Freddie. I have a pressure on

Freddie was either written by Taylor Swift or a woman He's a little angel of her About Taylor is a woman Oops By women I would say God But then also have duh

God I mean if you believe That sort of thing Which I mean for I do In case anyone's worried This is great This is great

I love this I love this Just keep talking Who have I not offended Do you have anything to say about Beyonce? You got God, Taylor Swift, you got... Beyonce? What about Melissa Gorga?

Oh, Melissa Gorga. Equal to that level. God, Taylor Swift, Melissa Gorga. I say it all the time. In that promo that 100 million whatever fucking views? Probably more by now. That's crazy. I mean, I was still like...

They're clearly doing a bit, but the bit is kind of like... he hates his girlfriend. It was kind of funny how she was looking directly at him and then he was just like, and she's here. Like it's giving like, I'm doing your podcast. He's like, okay.

Like clearly that's not obvious. I'm sure they're thrilled. I mean, like just. She obviously phoned in a favor because she wanted to promote this album because she didn't know that anybody was going to buy it if she didn't go on this podcast to promote it. Yeah,

obviously. Taylor Shoev really needs to get out there more. Yeah. She's really doing him a favor. Listen, it is his, it is her boyfriend. Yeah.

But podcasting. is the new way to promote whatever it is you need to promote. That's where people want to get to know you. They want to see the human that you are. And of course she's going to do her boyfriend. Yeah, because it's not like she doesn't have to feel uncomfortable in a setting. It's two people she knows very well. She has control of the edit. Four point eight million likes. She definitely has control the other. It's not like he's going to ask her hardball questions. You know, I don't I don't even, I don't even suspect it's going to be like an interview. No. I expect it to be just like a little Hangout, Sash.

Anyway, she has a new album. She's collaborating with some new producers. I've never heard of them. I'm not, I mean, I know they're a big deal. I'm just not, I don't, I've offended them now. It's producers. She's collaborated in the past. It's Max Martin and someone else.

And she put out a playlist of only like following their song. Well, it's the songs that they've made for her already, which I will say are the bangers. Like a Max Martin Taylor Swift collab does go hard. Is style one of them? Style is one of them. Really? Is that your favorite? James, Dean, Day, Trin.

I have danced by myself to style at two in the morning in my apartment in Chicago. Oh, hell, yeah. I have. What neighborhood did you live in? Why were you making dinner at two in the morning? Maybe I was making food. My bar days. He was dancing in the refrigerator light.

Light refrigerator light. That's a lyric. Yeah. A white refrigerator? The white refrigerator. So style, styles. Style is one of them. That's okay.

I'm promising. I'm of hope. My issue with the past couple of Taylor's, Swift albums is I was like, I would love to hear what's happening behind her vocals. You know what I mean? I would love to hear a beat. Yeah. Like a fun bop. Yeah. Drums? Reputation, maybe? A little call back to

that. Is that Max Martin? I think some of it. There we go. I was just like, love the song. We'd love to hear more of it. You know? It's been my thing. Anyway. Anyway, it's, well, I mean, obviously everyone who's, everyone's listened to it by the time they got to this episode, probably.

Yeah. If you listen to us for first. Thanks. You're G. Hey, if you listen to us first, you have taste. Thanks. Also, this episode, we have a big sit down with Lisa Hoxton. Not to be confused with Lisa Hoxstein, same person, but we called her Lisa Hoxstein, but she referred herself as Lisa Hoxstein.

So we're going forward, going to respect Hoxstein. Yes, her wishes. She is with us. Obviously, she has been going through a lot, both personally and publicly, with her divorce from Lenny. and she speaks with us talking in great detail about just that whole kind of emotional anguish that she's been enduring while making great TV with the other housewives of Miami. We obviously talk a little bit about the season as well, but it is a great interview with Lisa for all the Bravo fans out there. We have all the tea that you're going to possibly want.

So really important that you wrap up that Taylor episode and make sure it's must see. or must listen programming with Lisa Hawkestein. That is all up in this amazing episode. Also tomorrow we're back for another reality recap. We have Sandy from Perfect Match with us. Also, our friend of show, Susie Evans is going to

come back in and hang out with us because we had such a fun time with her the first time. She decided to come back and hang out with us. Funny story about Sandy. The first time that we had Sandy in the studio was when we had her ex Nick. I had to be confused with me for that kind of double date,

interview that was really awkward and we talked some shit about Sandy. Prior to that. I thought I was tough on her but apparently she didn't care. Mary had just started working here. You want to tell the story? It's like more fun when it comes from you. Yeah, isn't it? So basically, we were recapping and I tend to be hyperbolic for comedic purposes, you know? I'm not offended. Just say what you said. Anyway, I called her a soulless. I called her a solace. I don't feel good about it. At one point, we were talking about Sandy, who at times it looked like she was fucking J.R.

What? Like, what? And I really Also, J.R. just brought out a bad side of me. Yeah. Anyone who fucked with J.R., you just, anyways, Mary called her solace. I called her solace. I called her solace. She came in, and then, you know, Nick and Natalie,

they love to be, like, very kind to people. And they were like, don't look at the comments. Like, people say really mean things on the internet. And Sandy goes, well, the worst thing somebody actually said about me was here. And then I was still editing at the time. And she turns to me at my little desk. And she goes, you called me soulless.

No, she said the worst thing I've been called is soulless by you. Oh, yeah. And then she did say verbatim, you called me soulless. And I went, the by you was a slow turn and point. Yeah. It landed at by you. And then you turned red. Yeah, I've heard seen.

That was pretty savage of her. No, it was really cool of her. And I think about it to this day. And Sandy, I'm deeply, deeply sorry about that. It was the perfect setup. Anyway, she joins us tomorrow to talk all things, perfect match, her time in the house with Louie. That should be a good.

Sandy usually delivers. You only kiss two girls during truth or dare and then one outside of the game. How long was this little boys mixer? Because I just... A day? I think it seemed like an afternoon. It wasn't even a day. It was like they came home.

Two hours. She was like, I couldn't help myself. My dick was so hard. She said, lick her thigh, licked her thigh. We'll get into all of that tomorrow. Well, before we get to our interviews, Lala wants to go on Southern Charm? Lala was doing an Amazon Live, and they asked her which reality show she'd most like to join. Her answer was Southern Charm.

She thinks that... That's not at real news. It's not real news. You could ask questions on Amazon Live, And she got to ask a question to see answered. It made a headline. I think, yeah.

But I guess maybe even the bigger question there would be like, should reality TV stars when their shows get canceled be able to pitch themselves for other series? Listen, it's supply and demand. That's what I'm thinking. It's a man for you. I don't know. Can't we agree, though, that some of the best episodes of, like, television are crossover episodes? Yes, going back to the Disney Channel Night of Premier.

When Brad Pitt went on friends. Love. Yeah. Yes. Thanksgiving episodes slap. Oh, it did slap. Oh, man, when a writer went on Friends. Yes.

When you see people that you're like, oh, what are you doing here? Even when I see a Tom Schwartz on Summerhouse. Valley, not so much. But Summerhouse, it's like, hey, you don't belong here. I like it. Or it's like speaking of Lala, when Lala brief, when Lala and Katie show up in Salt Lake City. In that one episode, you go, you know. Which of the men do you think would date Lala and Lala would date?

Shep. I would love to see her date, Shep. but I don't think either of them would be into each other. Craig. She's going for the top. Who's got the most money? I mean, no, no.

Whitney? Yeah, Whitney. Whitney. It would probably be Whitney. Ew. No. That tracks. Right?

Have we seen her date anyone but Randall since Randall? Well, I don't, she was famously rumored to have dated, the man that Brittany cheated on Jacks with or the one that Jacks got upset that she was hooking up with while they were separated. Oh, the Bachelor person.

Yeah. Julian. Julian. Remember, Jack's found text messages between Brittany and Julian on her iPad? That's the last person. Is someone in their... In their circle? Yeah, that's the last person, rumored to be dating.

Yeah. Why don't she get out there? But Lala doesn't live in Charleston. That's my thing. She's not from the South even. Well, she's not going to do the show. She got to ask the Amazon Live question. Yeah.

But theoretically, let's calm down. Like, realistically, she's going to be on the Valley. Yeah. Lola doesn't have Southern Charm. No offense. In case you were wondering if I were to do like a scripted TV show, I would do the office It's not on the air

Say more I'm just kidding Southern Charmbert You do get the office They're coming out with a new show The paper I think it's already out No the office spin off

It's not out yet It's not out yet Are you? No it's out in the beginning of September That's out the paper Yeah I'm actually looking very forward to that I think the like dry

You know mundane work comedy You would slay Who would we all be on the office? I never watched Hmm That's a really good question Zach's definitely Dwight

Zach is I wish I got it I think you'd really appreciate that if you did You would really appreciate that All right let me ask you this If you were to Pull a prank If you think anyone in the office

deserve a prank And maybe say put their mouse in jello Who would you put their mouse in jello? I think that's not a fair question Leah. Well, Leia would want to do the prank for sure. The thing is, I would do it to Leia. And it would have been

her idea, but then she would have forgotten. I want to put somebody's phone in the ceiling and just keep calling it. Oh, my God. Yeah, who's the most likely to punch a hole in a wall? To punch a hole in a wall. We will, little insider T's, sometimes

we will text Leia that you're calling her. be like he wants to talk to you right now and then you're like literally just letting you know or Justin will literally just send me a text that says Leia and I'm like, what?

What happened? You guys don't mean to Leah? No, I get a response. She's a mom. It's because Leia does that to us. Oh, yeah. Literally one night I was taking a shower and then Leia like called me

and I was like, hey. So I text her back because I was listening to music and I was like, I'm in the shower. can we talk later and she was like oh yeah sure and then like I called her later and I was like what's up she was like oh I just want to like chat about something real quick sorry no it's beautiful what was it about I don't know it was probably nothing probably nothing why'd you answer because I was like is it important because she was like Mary all caps and I was like is it important you all capsed Nick it was 3 p.m. It was not 3 p.m. it was fully like 8 o'clock at night

This is what Leia finds really funny, by the way. This is why we mess with her. She put paper on my head for no reason. I just thought it was so funny. She basically, like, made our office really, like, truly toxic one day, not emotionally, physically, because she started spraying me with silly string. And then we looked and it was like, do not stray inside. And it smelled like that for a day. It smelled like that for the whole day.

We have fun here. So that's inside tea at the biofiles. Do you think Taylor and Travis will kiss? On the podcast. Probably not. That wouldn't do well for auditory listeners. Stop it. No.

You don't think they'll kiss? On the pod? I would be curious if it's even going to be the full podcast. I feel like it's going to be like 20 minute little bit of just like her promoting her album. That would be weird. That would be so funny if like it's a normal podcast and then they're like, oh, Taylor. Oh, because she can't handle talking? Well, I'm like, what do they talk about sports the whole time?

Again, I've never listened to it. I don't think they just talk. I think they're multi-dimensional men who can. bouncing in and out of pop culture and sports. Listen, I don't know anything about Travis and Taylor, but I'm just like I do feel like they kind of keep things private. Like, I don't think we're going to get like an hour of them talking about their relationship or like on vacation they went on.

So like how long can you talk about an album? I guess for an hour. That seems offensive. What? How long can you talk about Taylor's album? How is that offensive? I bet Taylor can talk about it a long time. Well, it's what I'm saying unless we're going to literally go through who rode on it,

who played on it, what the inspirations were. I just don't see that for New Heights podcast. Well, I also see she, what she's going to do is she's going to say very specific things that are loaded with Easter eggs. And then the Swifties are going to go in and turn a 20-minute conversation into a six-hour-long YouTube video essay. And they're probably going to be right. Yeah. How many views do we think that this episode is going to get? Eight million.

Does any YouTube video have a billion views? Gongnam style. It's going to have a million in the first 10 minutes. For sure. for sure. Baby Shark has over 15 billion views. Good. Baby Shark. Gongham style has 5 billion.

Despacito is 8.7 billion. So Baby Shark is the number one. We used to be a proper country. I knew it's Desposito. Justin Bieber. Are you hip to the happy song? Like Farrell? Imogen heap.

That like makes baby stop crying in the car. Anyways, while Leah finds the happy song that I don't give a fuck about. Let's get to our first interview. Brian, and hopefully we'll find out his favorite color. He's up next. Well, obviously, one of the most meaningful things I get to do in the show is hear people's stories about the relationships and problems they have and hopefully try to help them

from time to time, but sometimes it doesn't feel like I'm able to help. And there was this one listener who recently wrote in. They wrote in and said, I love my partner, but I have zero interest in sex. It's killing me. I feel broken. Well, first off, obviously, we know she is not. We've had this conversation on the show before. It could be biological.

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for real just download cash app use our exclusive referral code that's v i a l-l-0 in your profile send five dollars to a friend within 14 days and you'll get $10 dropped right into your account it's that easy terms apply that's money that's cash app cash app is a financial service platform not a bank banking services provided by cash app's bank partners prepaid debit cards issued by sutton bank member fdic direct deposit round up overdraft coverage and discounts provided by cash app a block ink brand visit dot app slash legal slash podcast for full disclosures. Brian, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, man.

First question. Do you know what it's going to be? I don't know what it's going to be. What's your favorite color? Dude, I don't have a favorite color. Ah, come on, Brian. It depends on the season. Okay.

All right. We'll paint a, we'll paint a vibe for you. All right. It's autumn. All right. It's six. It's like, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's The brisk's 55 degrees.

There's football on. I'm not sure if you watch football, but... Blue? Blue? Okay. Okay, now I have a question. Okay, you're in a hot tub with a beautiful woman. It's summer and it's hot.

What's your favorite color? Teal. Teal. Okay. Okay, that seems like a similar color to blue. Is there a common thread of blue? Your shirt is also blue. Your shirt is also blue.

Listen, I don't like to talk about it. I'm already going to talk about it. So anyway, I'm curious, Brian. Obviously, we've enjoyed watching you on the show and, you know, we like to have a bit of fun with our guests. But I don't know, what was your interpretation watching this back, seeing you in the hot tub with Parisa? How did you think you came across in that moment when Parisa from our vantage point was this like, hey, man, what's your favorite color? Let's play a little this or that. Like, let's just shake it up.

We just barely know each other. I don't fucking know, man. Top or bottom. And you seem to like be in a certain kind of mood or whatever, but I just want to hear your perspective. We know sometimes maybe context might be missing. I don't know. Don't want to put words in your mouth.

But like how did you just see it yourself? Did you like the way it came across or do you have any notes for us? Definitely didn't like the way it came across. Okay. How did it came across for you? A lot of backlash from it. Did you feel misrepresented in that moment? Listen, I was dressed like a bird for eight hours.

Yeah. Eight hours. Tons of conversations. I'm dancing. I'm sweating. I'm exhausted. I just want to enjoy the night with Parisa. Like, there's a full moon.

The scene's set. We're on the top roof. We're in a pool. There's a hot tub. We have the whole place for ourselves. We're popping champagne. And like, forcing conversations. Okay.

So you wouldn't, you're not a small talk guy? I mean, to open with what's your favorite color is just the little lack of depth there. And I just don't know where we're going to go with it. Okay. And I'm just a, I'm a little tired and cranky from being in a bird outfit for eight hours. Do you think that maybe because there are many different colors in the bird outfit, that's kind of where she was picking up on your favorite color? Or maybe it just wasn't meant to be deep. Maybe it was just like, maybe she just thought it was going to be like a six second conversation and then he would move on.

It's an interesting perspective. I didn't think of, you know, the colors from the birds. Yeah. Listen, I had a little moment. It's like, what's your favorite color? black like your heart, Brian. I had a little moment. I'll own it. Brian, it did seem like you weren't picking up on how she was feeling in the aftermath of that

because you kind of woke up and it was almost like everything was back to normal for you and she was definitely still feeling a type of way. At least that's how we saw it. So I'm curious to know, like, were you sensing that she was maybe a little off, a little upset by that or were you kind of like, it's all good? I mean, we had like a great night. Mm-hmm. We had a really, really good night together, like, as soon as production and the cameras leave the room, like, we got to completely enjoy the BIP, VIP suite.

So I thought we had a really good time. Okay. They also woke us up really early and thought we'd be able to spend a little more time, sleep in a little bit that didn't happen. Listen, I pick up on things, yes. But in a nutshell, overall, I truthfully believe we had an amazing night. Okay. So you would kind of more chalk it up

to almost like production fatigue a little bit like just kind of exhausted of the the grind that is making reality TV 100%. I mean, listen, did I have a moment? I had a moment. But yeah, for sure. Minus that, just do you have any other moments? Because it did seem like there are a couple times

where you just, it kind of comes across and maybe you're just tired or maybe you're just getting a bad rap, you know? But you seem like kind of just annoyed at Paris all the time. Hey, yay. Um, no, that, that truth was my only moment. Okay.

That I have. Uh, like, I had a great relationship with production and everything else. Um, loved it. Perisa, um, our relationship, you know, is at this point in time, like, going into, like, where we're at the episode is, like, now flourishing. But in those moments, um, she, at times she could be a little intense and I was kind of adapting to it. I'm more of like, chill, relaxed.

She's a little bit more intense. and um well i just to play devil's advocate brian it takes patience it takes patience like adapting to someone's a personality yeah yeah what is your favorite color is a pretty chill question just just to play devil's advocate i'm gonna dress you like a bird for eight hours have you sweaty rain poured on you waiting in the room getting ready to perform all right so brian has his breaking point i'm gonna ask you a question that you don't want to ask you you really did great as a bird you know the performance was incredible let's get into the whole germy of it all i had no problem with you telling bailey uh the only thing i didn't get was the lying after it it was like why didn't

you just own it you know what i'm saying like because i did think it was fucked up that you're even i don't care that you were friends with with with germy i think the i think being a good friend sometime is to hold your friends accountable and say hey man like yeah you're my boy but like why are you moving this way and like you should you shouldn't you should do something different right i understand andrew's point of view like yes i ultimately i'm nitpicking you probably should have gone to germany and said hey man if if you're not going to tell her i will but i really think you should just tell her and just get it over with there's no there's no good time to deliver bad news so why don't we just go why don't just go do it now um but that aside why didn't you

just like i i'm assuming you're going to say you didn't want people to know and yada yada but like everyone just kind of assumed it was you already so why didn't you just like own that rather than like you know like your version was like they they asked me about Susie or Bailey I don't know you had this whole story that you came up with that was not remotely true uh rather than just being like hey man like yeah Jeremy was kind of playing Bailey I thought it was kind of fucked up and and everyone who's watching it would agree with you there's kind of like two pieces to that puzzle and one of them is is like Alex, her roommate knew

all of the girls knew and like with help and information from her so I almost like was giving the ability to the rest of the women in the house to just own it and keep me out of the scenario and then the other side of it was I knew the backlash that was going to happen from the guys in the house

from the brocode and everything else that was going on and the heat that I got from it was whether I was up front with it in the beginning or not, it wouldn't have mattered. So, like, it really wouldn't have mattered? Even if it wouldn't have mattered, wouldn't you have rather just, you know, as they say, these days stood on business and just been like, hey, right is right. You can hit me all you want.

But I don't think that Jeremy's been up front with Bailey and she has the right to know. We would all want to know. And like, kind of to your point, like, everyone else wanted to downplay it. That seemed to be Jeremy's point of view, right? It's just like, well, I didn't think it was a big deal. And you proved everyone that it was a big deal to Bailey. And everyone else was kind of acting as if like, well, you know, Bailey and Jeremy are good now. So, like, why are we bringing up kind of that old news?

Maybe they're only good because she's operating with half the information. So, like, I completely understood your thought process. It just seems like going forward, you would have been better off just, like, owning it and just, like, because you took what, you took what, like, seemed like, you doing the right thing and then almost turned it into you trying to cover your tracks for doing something you shouldn't have done, you know, but I thought you did the right thing. I agree and disagree with you.

I wanted the information to be relayed to Bailey. I didn't want it to have to be expressed from me. You saw the difficulty that I even had trying to get it out to her. Yeah. That was so difficult for me to even tell her, but she's like, you need to tell them. Yeah. You need to tell them.

Yeah, no, it's never fun delivering bad news. And with that being said, is like, me and her kind of had a pact And, like, she stayed 10 toes down on it, too. And she's like, I was like, let everyone know that this came from the girls. Because, like, they should have said it. And she held it down. She told Jeremy. She was like, yeah, I came from the girls, told everyone else.

Honestly, Paris is the one that told everybody that it came from me. Because I'm like, who even told everybody? And it came from Parisa? So did Bailey, was it idea to tell everyone else from the girls or was it your idea? It was kind of both our ideas because we knew the backlash that would come from the guys. and we're at a point now, we're in a challenge that you don't want to put yourself in the crosshairs with anybody. So we get this, you know, backlash for the brocode from all the guys.

Girls are projecting out of guilt because they haven't told her for literally we're three quarters of the way through the entire season at this point. So I was like, how do we mitigate this? And, you know, we spoke about that and had that conversation, which actually, I don't believe it was shown. But you see how she does say it came, the girl so. Do you regret telling Bailey? No.

Do I think it began to put me in the crosshairs and start to hurt pre-sentence odds at winning the bag of 500K? Yeah. But we start maneuvering in a way that helps us later on. Okay. Brian, yesterday we had Andrew on the show. And when we asked him about this situation. He made it seem like maybe this was a strategic move on your part to kind of get

some competition out of the way with Jeremy and Bailey. What would you respond to that? Shut it down immediately. Because I already knew what I was doing was actually going to completely hurt me in the game. So like that could just be shut down immediately. There was no benefit to me doing that because I was going to ensure that Bailey did not go home. So what was your thought process in terms of your timing because at least the way that it's edited together we saw that you were starting to think about it in last week's episode. So what made you do it now as opposed to earlier? It's a great question. So I did think about it from a leverage perspective when Jeremy and Bailey had the power of the rose to potentially send me home the week prior. And I was

like, I don't want to go about it that way. I think that's the wrong way to go about it. it. I think Jeremy and I have a good enough relationship that he's not going to send me home. And then when we have the rendezvous opportunity I'm like, you know what? Like this might be a good time where like there isn't all eyes on us to have

the conversation with her. Like she was, if I didn't, I'm telling you right now, if I didn't bring this up, she's going to watch this season and find out on this season episode after episode of Jeremy talking about Susie. You don't think Jeremy would have ever told her? No chance.

Did any part of you think that you should maybe go to Alex or to one of the girls and try to convince them to tell her? If you guys watched the season, Spencer had a conversation with him. Alex had conversations with other people about it. And everyone was just scared and unwilling to do it. Is that what it was? They were scared. But why not say to Alex, well, would you have done anything different?

Like hindsight being 2020, knowing that you don't have a regret telling Bailey, knowing that you don't think Jeremy would ever have told her, I agree with both those. If you could have done anything differently, would you have at least, whether it's going to Jeremy or going to Alex, say, hey, listen, I feel very strongly about this. She has the right to know. I don't want to be the one to tell her, but like, she needs to know. So like, you decide for yourself.

I'm either going to tell her or maybe she should hear it from her best friend or she should hear from the guy she's dating. I don't think she should hear it from me. I think we all agree on that. But if you guys are going to not say anything, I'm not going to keep watching this girl be kind of played you know no everyone's deciding her fate for her and that's

not right like would you have done that differently your approach is valid but it's still giving people like an ultimatum yeah we're just talking about doing the right thing you know right and Alex I don't think Alex is really the type of person to create

that conflict like she's scared of that type of conflict I have a lot and I have oh the ultimate respect for Alex I love her she's super funny super corky a doll yeah but she's not one that's going to like step up and create conflict and anyone who's going to step up and have that conversation or try and force that conversation is creating conflict and to be honest i'm really like the only person during that was going to was willing to do it but i yeah well i guess the only part i disagree with jeremy pinning him into an area of saying like

listen i'm going to tell her if you don't tell her it kind of leads to a similar outcome in in in terms of like the backlash from from his perspective and i think he could have just found it within himself to say it at some point like or the girls could have so i stand by what i did yeah but they they weren't going to you even said that i guess but you're you're creating the conflict by creating the ultimatum you know you're saying hey i don't i know you're not going to do this alex because you're a risk averse and whatever germy has his reasons but right and then that way if they're not going to do it then you go then you can go tell bailey and been like hey i tried to do the right thing. And I think we end up in the same place.

Okay. Were you surprised that Bailey forgave Jeremy so quickly? Yeah. Watching it back, I was a bit surprised at how quickly she forgave him. I've also been kind of like staying tuned into what she's been saying and she's pretty much

continuously had my back that like my intentions were not out of ill will or ill intentions whatsoever. If I was her, I think I would have had more questions for him. But again, right now, that could be questions that they're having right now and discuss them right now because I don't think any of us really knew how much I mean I me and Dale knew but like in terms of watching the show back like how much she was saying in an interviews and everything else like we knew it was going

on there but like the continuous and like ITM interviews and things like that of him talking about it was wild there is one comment that you said that he said that we didn't actually see and it was the proposing comment yeah doesn't he he's up in people's comments to not denying that? Isn't he, like, calling it? He's denying that. Yeah. Did that, did he actually say that? I can confirm that he said that. Okay. Where did he say that? He said it in the room. Could he? It wasn't when we were in bird costumes. Could he be misremembering or do you think he's lying? Listen, I had a lot of respect for him. I don't want to call him a liar. Like, I'm still fool with him. I'm still fool with everybody there. But did he say it? Yeah, he said it.

And was he like, people have said us. I haven't met Jeremy, but they said he has a dry sense of humor and he says things that I guess you shouldn't take seriously um I know he's denying he said it all together but it could have been in a humorous comical way but at the same time it's like there was so much discussion about her like DMing her after if she came back I would propose on the spot I mean I don't know if it's a joke like the date that they went on was like went so well like he was smiling ear to ear like you could naturally see organically see how much fun and how much like how good of a time that he had with susy on that date so he was and again like i'm not one to judge because i think he was really just

like stuck like i really like this girl i really like this girl i'd love to explore them both and like that's what paradise is supposed to be about but the timing just wasn't there so like i don't judge him for that at all and I think he was just kind of venting to the to us you know yeah what did you learn about yourself in this process that I could take a lot of heat from people without reacting every single person in the villa was just coming at me like Andrew's coming at me Spencer's coming at me they're they're talking you know about me and priest's relationship that I mistreater and all these other things and they're like they're coming at my character and my integrity and just the will to just sit back and digest with everyone is saying to you without you know reacting to

someone and to sleep on it digest and just take away like what you agree with what you disagree with and wake up the next morning and move forward with it and I think just the callous of being able to handle that I was pretty proud of. So I think that's what I would take away from it, honestly. All right. Do you think that it strengthened your relationship with Parisa? Because I feel like sometimes when you go through conflict or navigate something with someone, it can either break you or make you stronger. How do you feel like Parisa was as a partner during all of that? I will give Parisa all the credit in the world that the only reason we just got through that rose ceremony was because of her. How so? She held it down. Um, like,

she just stood by what I did and, you know, all the girls reacted and projected kind of out of guilt because, like, they were like, obviously they should have said something and they didn't. Right. And everyone kind of jumped on the train of like, he shouldn't have done that, he shouldn't have done that. And then like, obviously Wells was involved, but Parisa took like, like, real initiative and saying like, listen, like, we really should have spoke up. Like, he did the right thing. And she was just immediately in my corner from there on out, just holding it down and honestly i think we survived solely because of her and her efforts in getting the rounding up the girls to like completely understand like listen if you did the right thing how is no one like brought

this up yet so that really brought us closer in terms of like her having you know my back and us you know just staying as a unit watching it back in addition to just like holding it down like watching you interact as a partner had did you learn anything about yourself in terms of like yeah just how you are as a partner or how you give or receive love and how you communicate. Yeah, I mean, even like I'm talking her about it because she thought like the rendezvous was like, like I was trying to be romantic with me about it. Right. That wasn't the case.

And she's like, all right, if you're going to do this, like you got guts. Like you got guts. And I just really appreciated her riding with me the whole way with that. And then in terms of being a partner, she kind of disagreed with me at first. But I think after really like communicating and getting on the same level, it's like just being in the right communication, the right state with your partner will dictate whether they're going to ride with you or not. So it's like, I think that was like really a turning point for Parisa and I in terms of like

how close we became as a unit. Okay. What is Brian doing when you're feeling Lucy Goosey, you don't have a care in the world when you're the most unsurious? Like what, what do you, what does that world look like for you, Brian? I mean, I'm just, like, socializing, cracking jokes. Like, you see Dale and I just, like, laughing hysterically. Like, he's like, dude, we're just some big ass kids.

We're just some big ass kids. And, like, yeah, just it's not, you know, just don't take life too seriously. When you have to take life serious, take life serious. But, like, try not to take life too seriously. You know, I could elaborate more into, like, my hobbies and things that I like to do. But we can move with that too. How stressful was that for you when Dale was like, so you just, you didn't say anything right because like you'd be such a horrible person if you had just because

like i have the utmost respect for dale and like he was he was my homie throughout the entire show and like he's the one that i stay the closest with like today so like not telling him the truth up front was awful like it didn't feel like it still doesn't feel good but like in conversations afterwards he's like listen i know you as a person i know like outside of the show your integrity as a person, like your character as a person. So he's like, I'm not going to judge you for this at all. He's like, but from like a show standpoint, I have to judge you for this.

So he's like, I cannot ride with you for this. So he was super up front. He's like, I can't vote to keep you here. And that's what I loved about him is that he told me straight up. He was like, but outside of this show, he's like, you're my boy. But he's like, right now I cannot ride with you. Okay. He's married.

At least you're going to be upfront about it and tell me straight to my face. That means a lot. Are you cool with Andrew? Me and Andrew don't really speak. we don't have problems or anything like that but you know what's funny like about andrews when i watched um paradise like two whatever the last you know two seasons like me and my mother watching it late night in preparation for this paradise he was like my favorite character so when i saw him coming on the show i was surprised and i was like hey man like i'm like a fan of yours of like

you as a character on the show like like you know what i mean like his character and like who he was in the show and like it was you know like a fan boy situation with him So we actually had that conversation post me speaking to bail and he's like, bro, we were so good. Like we were homies and like you even told me like that you were a fan of mine from like the last show and like we were so good. And then you go and do this and like now this is how I feel about you. But I mean, yeah, outside of the show we really haven't spoke, but the rest of the cast we actually stay in touch quite a bit. Okay. Because he mentioned he didn't think you were very nice to Parisa.

But do you think that's bias or? yeah um you know towards the end of the show like spencer approaches me jeremy approaches me dale approaches me and they're all like dude i'm not gonna lie like i've never seen someone like take so much heat and like so much criticism and just like without reacting like spencer's like bro i would have punched them in the face because they began to realize that a lot of what was like kind of being shown or being told was like really out of context in terms of how priest and I really were like we really are a strong couple and a strong duo and there's just so much it's taken out of context and not just with the show depicts but really just the like internal

conversations that people are having that are just not true and they begin to see that and they're like listen they apologized me like listen we didn't know the context we didn't know the context like you actually been like straight this entire time what is the most untrue thing that you think people perceive about you whether you know from what we're watching or things like that or context that you think is missing or like what you're referring to your peers kind of saying to you what is the thing that i mean like yeah when so like when we're having but when andrews coming after me and spencer's coming after me you know i'm sitting there just taking all the heat it's crazy it was intense um they don't know the context they're like yeah you mistreat her i'm like

i really never mistreat i don't mistreat women i was like i've never mistreated her i maybe told her some things that like she may not have wanted to hear but it was the it was honesty and it was honesty in order to like build our foundation for the future and they never knew the context of any of it so like kind of later on

when like priest and I really start turning the corner and becoming stronger and she starts vocalizing those things and they were like oh okay like it wasn't him like mistreating her in any other and anyway like I'm like go off the rails and disrespect her at any point in time ever okay you're just being honest

yeah okay uh brian we really appreciate taking the time buddy i know you uh took some time out of your very busy schedule man i appreciate it you know you work in what med device uh medical aesthetics so i'm in Vegas right now medical aesthetics you know Botox fillers some devices oh you're like at a conference yeah okay uh yeah national sales meeting for the week pop off everyone's saying Vegas is dead what do you think i don't think it's dead i'm at the fountain blue right now it's okay last night was a monday it was pretty pop all right what's your game Listen, I was doing real well last night until I started drinking. Oh, wow.

And I was up a couple thousand and I could just say I'm not up anymore. Oh, man. They're like, what do you want about? What color? Like, I can't do this game. Yeah, well, okay. Last night it was a lot of black. A lot of black.

Put five bucks on 11 for me. 11. So I was betting a ton on 11 last line. Oh, really? That's actually like where I bought my money. Oh, man. Look what you did. Someone told me to bet on 11.

and it didn't work out. I've never been successful with it either. You fuck with roulette? That's crazy. Well, like, you just play all the numbers. You play a bunch of numbers. You can play, like, and I actually made most of my money in roulette. I was losing it in craps in Blackjack. Damn.

I said, I also just want to plug in. I'm in a restaurant in the Hamptons as well. Tacos, margaritas, and Hampton Bayes. So that's another thing. I just opened up with my brother-in-law as of the beginning of June. So that's, you know, another venture that I have. that I love to do as well. All right, what's the best thing on the menu?

Tuna nachos. Okay. Tuna nachos. Over some nachos. That sounds good. A little margarita right on the water. Well, if I ever go to the Hamptons, I'll be sure to check it out. You too.

Come check it out, man. Brian, appreciate your time, buddy. Thank you, guys. I appreciate you. All right. Talk to you later. All right. Thanks a lot.

Bye. Bye. Brian's never wrong. Honestly. When he was like, yeah, I was just in that bird costume and I was annoyed. I was like, you know what? What? Fair enough. You know what, though?

I do think that the reason everybody was so pissed off at him was projection. Like, I think that they were pissed at themselves for not telling Bailey. For sure. Yeah. What I don't get is him standing on the whole, like, well, I just wouldn't have done anything differently. And, like, I agree with you, but I disagree. No, it's just like.

I just, I think that he should have given, like, pulled Alex aside, maybe, or Jeremy aside. The fact that he had no notes about how he handled it. It's like, I wouldn't have done things differently. I have no regrets. but it's like you know there's definitely things that he could have done differently

right yeah I mean I think that even like doing the rendezvous behind Paris's back like why didn't he let her in on that sooner or like consult her honestly honestly honestly there's I bet I bet there's a lot of like production

stuff timing wise the rendezvous date I'm gonna chalk that all up to trying to make a dramatic moment because nobody else him just working with production but that doesn't change the fact that like he could have just been like, no, I'm just going to go

ahead and tell the kid who's napping to go tell her. You know and also it doesn't what's your favorite color? It's not a hard question. It's not. It's blue. It's obviously. Also it's obviously blue. How can you accuse Parisa of being too serious? When you're

so serious, you can't play that game. Has he met Marisa? He wanted to cut to the chase. They were in the hot tub and he wanted it to be romantic and he was horny you know he was horny he wasn't thinking about colors he was like i don't care about colors right now we're in a hot tub i don't know i mean that's what but even in that moment you just go blue there's something there's something going on there's something going on with colors that's like deeply triggering to him and it's a hard it's the hardest question He's a very earnest guy

He's very serious He's nice He's nice Yeah He's really good looking actually He is You find him handsome Yeah

I find him I found him hotter in this interview I do too I wish he would just chill out a little bit For sure Because he does seem like a funny Like chill die He doesn't seem chill at all to me

Not in In real life It seems that way Do you think he seems chill in real life? Like a jokester I don't get that vibe. Really?

It seems very earnest. Like what, you know, when... What's on of being earnest? Nothing. I'm,

I'm earnest. You are pretty earnest. He definitely doesn't like being wrong. Or being told that he's wrong. What's one thing you learned about yourself? How awesome I am. I honestly couldn't believe I was capable of doing such things on reality TV is basically his answer.

I don't know. You know, I get it. You got to respect the hustle. He makes good TV, though. I mean, I got to say this season of Bachelor in Paradise is actually really good. I'm just being honest. This is the first bat, to be completely honest,

the first time I've, like, been actively, like, I enjoy watching this while watching a Bachelor series. Yeah, it's been fun. Yeah. Nick hates Brian. I don't hate you at all. I just, I don't, I think he could stand to be a little bit open to, like, not being right, especially since, like, it didn't go the way he wanted it to.

Yeah. It's like, all the things that didn't go is why we're outside of his control. I just No there are definitely things Like I think even just like What could you have done differently with Parisa And it was more like Well I was just being honest

You gotta be honest It's like but there are ways to be honest That aren't hurtful Yeah or and I get being tired But sometimes you're tired You don't get to be a dick But it's also like you You did the right thing

Ultimately with Bailey But could you have gone about it differently Yes you probably could have tried To pull Alex aside and be like Hey maybe you should tell her Or pull Jeremy aside And without it sounding like an ultimatum I'm just kind of be like, I encourage you to tell Bailey because it's not cool.

She is going to watch this back. Yeah. You know what I think it is? I think my criticism of, not just Brian, I think some of the men on the show and all the reality TV shows. They're lacking in the empathy part of the putting themselves in the other person's shoes. Like, Brian's just like, hey, I was in a goddamn bird costume all day. I'm fucking tired. Why are we talking colors?

I just want to chill. I just want to chill with my lady. And he didn't think to himself. I was like, I don't know. Like, maybe this is a girl who's watched Bachelor her whole life. and here she is having her first one-on-one. And maybe as a woman, she doesn't want to be, like, slut-shamed away, like, women are often slut-shamed on TV

when it's giving, like, I just want to, like, fucking a hot tub. And maybe she's trying to make conversation so she can, like, you know, when the cameras go away. That's also Paris's personality. She's very quirky. I love her. But whatever the reason, he was just like, I'm tired.

Yeah. So. I'm too tired to talk about colors, but I'm not too tired. Yeah. In that moment, like, Brian seemed charming in the interview. So, but in the, that moment, I was like, you don't deserve Paris's rock collection. Do you guys remember her

rock collection? And her presentation. Her presentation. She has her cat. How was she too serious for Brian? Parisa, shout out to your cat. I just, it broke my heart when they were in the bed and she was like apologizing for being too much. I know. I was like, you know, that's what I'm saying. You're perfect. He's not, you know, he's making her feel like too much. He obviously is very good at stating what he's, his opinions and his conviction. And when he feels right, the person on the receiving end of that righteousness, I think sometimes feels a little, you know. I don't know if a, like, quirky girl is the girl for Brian. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, switching gears to a gentler gentleman. It's time to get to Freddie, your heartthrob from the perfect match. He's up next. And then don't forget, we have Lisa Hoxton. Hawstein. apparently she changed it up on us we're not entirely sure hockstein

okay thanks thanks all about her very messy very public divorce that is after freddie you are not going to have a mistake don't go anywhere we're up next that's freddie hi i'm chris gathard and i'm very excited to tell you about beautiful anonymous a podcast where i talk to random people on the phone i tweet out a phone number thousands of people try to call you talk to one of them they stay anonymous i can't hang up That's all the rules. I never know what's going to happen. We get serious ones. I've talked with meth dealers on their way to prison. I've talked to people who survived mass shootings. Crazy funny ones. I talk to a guy with a goose laugh, somebody who dresses up as a pirate on the weekends. I never know what's going to happen. It's a great show. Subscribe today, Beautiful Anonymous. Freddie, welcome to the show. Good to be with you. No, thank you for having me. Yeah.

It's a pleasure for us, man. We're big fans. I watched you a little bit on Love Island, UK. Yeah, on Love Island, yeah Oh, Love Island, no, Love is Blind, sorry Would you ever do Love Island? No, too old for that, too old for that. Are you too old? Are you, like, officially too old, or how old are you? I don't know, 33. I think I'm too old for that.

Yeah, you're probably, you're probably too old. Well, you have swept the hearts of Americans at a perfect match, and obviously, Love is Blind, UK, you made quite the mark as well. You're a fascinating, fascinating character. You have this, obviously, like, Good looking guy, very interesting job. How did you end up on reality TV in the first place?

I'm always curious about that. Oh, do you know what? It's weird. So, right, honestly, like reality TV, I never thought, never going to be on reality TV. I thought it's never going to be something I didn't even consider. Basically, I had a difficult breakup. And literally, I was on TikTok.

This was only like six days after I broke up with this person. And I was on TikTok, you know, feeling sorry for myself. I couldn't sleep. And an advert came up on TikTok for Love is Blind UK, casting now. And I loved the show. I thought it was an amazing show, right? Obviously, I'd never been in the UK before, only the US. So I just thought, you know what?

I'm going to just apply for it. And if I had known at that moment in time, you're going to go on the show and, you know, you're going to go on this journey and have this wild adventure. Like, I probably wouldn't have done it. But because it was kind of like gradually, like one stage to the next and then then I I had an interview and then I met them and then it was just kind of like one thing after another in the end it was just kind of like

I don't know I just went for it yeah but that's how I ended up getting on the show yeah oh why do you say you wouldn't have done it I just don't think I'm cut out for TV I just yeah but you know what like it was I was I was I want I wanted to meet my person and I just thought what an amazing

opportunity if if it happens and obviously I was so blessed to kind of be given that opportunity to attempt it. And yeah, I've never looked back, to be honest. Yeah, amazing. Fascinating. And then you also have a very fascinating job. You're a mortuary? You work in a funeral home. Yeah, I'm a funeral director. So what exactly does that entail? Like, how did, first of all, how did you get into that? And then I'd love to understand a little bit. We've heard about the job. I haven't heard you explain it or like what you do or how you get into it and in all those.

things because yeah yeah of course so yeah my job is really fascinating most people are kind of either freaked out by it or sort of want no more they want to know everything like do you believe in oh do you believe in the afterlife this stuff what have you seen like what have you done so i always get like an array of different like kind of reactions to my job but i got into the job just because i just kind of fell into it to be honest i'm a passionate person i'm a compassionate person i care a lot about people and it's just something that i knew i could do i've never really been phased by kind of death or the idea of dying and I know that's really strange to think about but it's never really something that's ever sort of phased me and I knew I could deal

with that and I knew that I could look after people and yeah I just thought I'd just go for it and yeah I've been doing that for 10 years and my job role so I do everything so from the point where the family contact doesn't say somebody's passed away and to the point of the funeral so absolutely everything I meet the families I arranged the funerals I prepare the deceased and I conduct the funeral. So I do absolutely everything. Wow. So you're dealing,

yeah, you're dealing with the bodies. Yeah. Do you know what? It's crazy, you know, because yeah, crazy.

Because I don't, I think that people look at me and they don't realize, like, how involved they. I mean, sort of things that are kind of not really spoken about. And I'm the kind of person.

Like, I don't take it on board. It doesn't affect me as a person. Like, I can deal with, like, traumatic things. And I don't take that home.

And I don't, I feel very blessed that I'm able to do that. And yeah, but it's a crazy job. I can't lie. It's a crazy job. But I love it and hence why I'm still doing it now. And, you know, I've been very blessed in a position that since Love is Blind, I've been given lots of different opportunities,

but I still feel like I'll always kind of stay grounded and at my roots where, you know, hopefully I'll do that forever, that job, yeah. How did you get into it? Is it like a family business or do you just like, see a, did you also see a TikTok ad? Yeah. I just, do you know what? I don't ever know is that.

How did you get into it? Like, and I don't have a, I don't have a specific answer. Like I say, it's just because I knew somebody at the time, to the fair, I did know somebody that worked in the industry. And yeah, I just thought, all that sounds interesting. And yeah, before you know it, I was there. I've been there 10 years and like, yeah, I just worked my way up. Wow.

So you see like a dead body almost every day? Yeah, absolutely. Wow. That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, multiple, multiple, yeah. Obviously, it's not really something to think about it because it's just, it's just work. But each person, generally, I'm not just saying this because it's a, you know, it's a podcast,

but generally, like, each person is that's somebody's loved one. And each person is cherished and what's after, respectfully and with dignity. And so I don't see it as, like, a dead body. It's kind of just like somebody's loved one, somebody's, that's somebody's mom or somebody's dad, somebody's brother, sister, child, you know, it's just. yeah i don't see it like that i and i'm sure you get this questions you alluded to it already but like are you uh like are you a religious man or not a religious person or like how do you how do you i mean you mentioned it doesn't bother you but like how yeah i guess how do you process all the

emotions like you said you're dealing with someone's loved one was recently at the doctor's office and a doctor's office can be difficult because a doctor on a regular basis sometimes has to deliver bad news and that can be very like draining on on on one person how do you deal with the like that the emotional the emotional heaviness of your job um just knowing that like well it's not affecting you and you have a job to do and and you are an empathetic person but you obviously are seeing people in pain often how do you process that yeah it's i think it's it is really difficult seeing people in pain and it's not nice to see somebody upset somebody crying about their loved one it's it's not a nice sort of

situation to be in and obviously I witness it all the time but as I say it's not my pain and all I can do is try and support that person, that family hold their hand and try and guide them through the process and kind of give them the sort of farewell for their loved one that they deserve so it's it's kind of I'd say I've said it a couple of times I feel blessed that I'm able to do that because I know not everyone can but in terms of sort of like the heaviness of it you do no matter what you do no matter what your job is you know you have heavy days. You know, you can be a postman. You have heavy days. You can work in any sort of industry and you can get home and feel stressed. But for me, just my family and I'm very passionate

about the gym. So, yeah, just keeping myself fit and keeping my mental health fit, I guess, yeah. Have you always been this jacked? Yeah, like, moving on, you mentioned, uh, yeah, I've always, like, I'm in, I'm in shape, you know, like I'm, I look, you know, pretty good with my shirt off, but you got some guns, man. Like you... Have that? Oh, thank you. Yeah.

Yeah. No, it's not... I wouldn't say I've always been jacked. I mean, it's not like I came out of the wound and asked for a protein shake. It's just... Yeah. I just, I don't know. I've just been working out.

They're committed to it. Yeah. Did you play sports growing up? Any athletics? Soccer. Okay. Soccer. Yeah, that's it, really.

Soccer. Yeah. I was saying going back to perfect match. How was your experience versus being on Love is Blind? Totally different. Love is Blind is an incredible show. It's an amazing to be a part of, but Love is blind is very heavy. You're talking a lot about your feelings, it's deep conversations. And at the end of the end of it is marriage. So it's kind of like full on, you're meeting your family, coming to your house. It's like really invasive and very, very full on. And I loved it.

I loved the experience. It's incredible. It was an absolute whirlwind. It was a roller both sort of emotions. One day I was crying their eyes out, the next I was happy. So it's, and in comparison to perfect match, it's a totally totally different show. Perfect match is, I can't believe how kind of

left to your own devices you are, like literally, you kind of, you walk into the house and the producers are just like, right, there you go, do your own thing. And it's just mad. It's like, I can't, like, love is blind wasn't like that. Like, love is blind is not scripted at all. It's all your own feelings

emotions, your own words. I feel like that is very more kind of like you're guided towards sort of, maybe the topic of conversation, but not what you talk about, but it might be like, okay, talk about what your future holds, what the kids, etc. It's heavily structured, yeah.

Whereas, perfect match was just sort of, right, come on then, cameras are rolling. And I feel like, it surprises me that they managed to get a TV show out of it. There's a lot, there's a lot of drama. Don't get me wrong. Like, there's a lot of stuff.

that's happened that hasn't even been shown, I ain't going to lie. But yeah, it surprises me how I remember being in it thinking they're not going to get much out of this, but yeah, they are. I said, what are you guys doing all day? Because I do feel like you are just kind of sitting around a house until you have like a challenge or something. Like what is a normal day at the perfect match house? You'll get up. I mean, right first. And then kind of be briefed on the day, right, this is what you're doing, get ready. We've got a challenge later on. Just a lot of lingerie.

I don't like that. And then obviously you look forward to your challenge. And then that's usually there for several hours doing that. So everyone's getting hot and bothered and complaining because the mosquitoes are biting. I think it's a lot more glamorous on the TV than it was being there. But it was great. It was great. Freddie, you obviously, you come across as such a genuine sweet.

I think the internet says you were made by a woman, something like that. I don't know. But truly, like, you know, you do come across as a very kind of unique man in the best possible way. And a lot of your peers on perfect match fit the mold of a more traditional young man in his 20s. You know, men who, like, for example, have a hard time, you know, not making out with other women, you know, because they're just like in front of them and things like that. I, you know, I guess, like, what is it about you or like, why do you feel like you're different in that respect? or are you just are very intentional about like not doing that like what why are you so different than

some of these other more you know your typical kind of cliche man who play the role of the fuck boy very well um and things like that and yeah what why are why are you so squeaky clean i guess do you know what i think i think it just comes down to sort of like i don't know i think that i think it stands like your intentions like what you're there for like for me like i was there to me to meet a genuine connection and sort of try and establish that with somebody and obviously I met Madison early on in the show and I was kind of we were both loyal to each other throughout the process and I didn't have any sort of intention to sort of stray away or any desire to kind of pursue anything else because I felt like something was good was kind of developing but don't get me wrong

like if I'd met somebody and the connection wasn't as strong as it was with Madison in the early stages. Yes, I would have probably kept my options more open and looked at other sort of options. But I know, like, I went on the date with Rachel, which was really good. But I just feel like I was already building a connection with Madison. So I was in a very difficult position because, yes, I did enjoy my time with Rachel. I really liked her. I thought she was a very pretty girl, but it's kind of like I was already building something there with Madison. And I wanted to kind of see what we're about kind of unfolded. You know what I mean?

Let's talk about your connection with Madison. I also watch Turin' Love is Blind. And I had a very, you know, I haven't met Madison in person. I had a very different interpretation of Madison that I had of you, where you come across as someone who's this very calm, level-headed, empathetic, you know, slow to anger, so to speak. and she she kind of comes across as more, you know, toxic, reactive, you know, kind of holds a vendetta at times. Again, maybe this is all the edit and things like that, but I was shocked kind of by like how you are portrayed on these shows as this really kind and thoughtful person and you paired up with Madison, who again, you know, I don't, I haven't met her in person, but seems to have a, I guess, kind of a mean streak.

I don't know, but maybe you saw it differently. Like, what was it about Madison that draw you? And I guess, you know, or maybe like, do you have a type, too? Like, you know, maybe you're always drawn to the more kind of like, you know, fun. Firing ones, you know, it's like, so what drew you to Madison? And I guess what you're seeing on TV is that the person that you got to know while filming the show? So, I'd say first of all, I didn't, I hadn't seen the Madison show, lions, I didn't

see him with blinds. When I first met her, I didn't know who she was. And likewise, she didn't know who I was evil. So I think it was important that I kind of established the connection and grow to sort of learn about her as a person through my own sort of connections and with her and yeah i feel like had i watched her show first i might have had a preconception about her which might have changed my opinion i don't know as far as our connection like with me she was amazing and he's very loyal very sort of committed to me very loving and yeah like she was great However, yeah, I did see the kind of fiery side of her. And I did, yeah, I did see that quite a lot.

And yeah, but with me, she was incredible, like, really nice. And, yeah, it's difficult. It's difficult because I, I, she was never like that with me. So she was never allowed it with me. Okay. But I did see it. I did see it. And when I did see Love is blind, it didn't surprise me.

um but that being said she was great with me okay so you actually went back and watched her season after you got back from filming well her season hadn't aired yeah oh yeah yeah yeah yeah so her season aired we were we filmed in september her season aired in february but i do remember watching it and um i was a little bit kind of gutted to an extent because yeah it's difficult but yeah i was kind of gutted because I wanted her to come across how she was with me rather than how she is at times of other people, if that makes sense. Yeah, no, it totally makes sense. It's, you know, when it comes to reality TV, if you have different sides of your personality, what most of us do,

and there's not a lot of time to show everyone's like full, full personality at times. I think that being said, what I do admire about her is she does always speak from her heart. And if, whether she's right or wrong, I think she'll always vocalize her opinion. And I think that's like, you know, a good thing about her. So, yeah. And on love is blind, I think she did that. Like, I think she spoke from my heart. And whether she's right or wrong, that's down to your own personal interpretations of what she's saying.

But I think, yeah, I think she does speak from her heart and that's a good thing. Were any of the men that you got to know, and obviously you're a gentleman, so I'm sure you'll choose your words carefully, but you obviously hold yourself to a high standard. Were there any men that you got to know where you were just more like, you know, I don't think I mess with these people outside of the house, so to speak. Or maybe were there men that you were disappointed that they didn't hold themselves to a higher standard? I think there's definitely, okay, so I got on with everyone, first of all. I just want to put it out there that I enjoyed everyone's company. All the lads were great, all the girls were great. However, I think it's fair to say that I genuinely wouldn't kind of hang around with most of them outside the show.

And that's not because I don't get on with them. Like, I think they're great guys. and I would go, if they've said, oh, let's go for a beer. Of course, I'd go with them. Of course I would. But they're not, I wouldn't generally sort of hang around with them, I guess. But that doesn't mean I didn't like them because I did. They were great guys.

But they were definitely certain situations when I kind of maybe observe and think, okay, I wouldn't have done that or maybe that was the wrong thing to do. Yeah, definitely. Anyone in particular that stood out to you? I don't want to, I think it's clear watching the show. yeah i think it's clear watching the show i don't think they need to kind of lobby yeah all right all right we'll assume it's daniel uh freddie did not say anything just just just me i have a question um so you and madison seem to have a pretty smooth ride

the whole way through compared to the other couples in their drama did you guys have a conversation about what went down at the boys mixer and kind of your thoughts on the women for giving their guys so quickly. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, me and Madison, we spoke every day. We got on really well. We were very open with each other about our intentions and sort of where we saw the relationship going outside the show and kind of where we were up to. So we were always very sort of vocal about that and equally about like the other couples as well, like where we felt the other couples were at. And we never spoke bad of anyone because there was no one to speak bad about. Like we literally liked every couple so but yeah we definitely spoke about you know maybe oh you know should

sandy have been a bit harsh on lee with her doing that but yeah and then you know Lisa she have kind of maybe I don't know made Daniel sleep on the sofa again another night you know so yeah I think we definitely spoke about stuff like that yeah for sure yeah do you think you're done with reality TV for the time being or is it possible we could maybe see you in the future I don't know I don't know we have to see you won't we Okay, so you're leaving the door open. All right, all right. Yeah, we have to stay.

Well, Freddie, we appreciate you taking the time, man. You're one of one. We really appreciate it. And it's been a pleasure to have gotten to know you, man. No, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. All right. Take care, buddy.

All right. See you later. Bye. Bye, bye, bye, bye. All right, it's a moment. Many of you have been waiting for. We're not going to waste any more of your time and you get right to Lisa because she has a lot to say about this season of Miami

and more importantly about her very public messy divorce. And that is right now. Of course, he's drinking out of a Chanel mug, you rich person, you. He wanted to say rich bitch, but he felt like he could have. I was like, oh, I can't say it, yeah. It's like Amazon. Stop. That's amazing.

Lisa, welcome to the show. We are honored to have you. This is a round of applause for Lisa. Legend, the icon. I've been waiting to do this one. We've been waiting to have you. So just we were we're hoping to have you in person. I know you are very busy and you have a lot of things going on. You just film the reunion. Also, I think you're dealing with some legal stuff at the moment. It seems like always. We are still very happy to be with you and happy that you are able to take the time. Because one, we just want to use this time to get to know you, Lisa, the housewife, a little bit better. And then obviously you have a lot going on your life right now that people are very into, very interested, a lot of like behind the scenes. Obviously, you know, we want to know more about you. So let's just kick it off. Anything you want to share with us before we start? Like, what's going on in your life?

Like, what was on your mind? Do you woke up this morning? I always have a million things on my mind. So I don't know where do you want to start. It's like a, it's like a roller coaster. Well, let's start with being just a girl from Toronto, Canada. How did you end up on the beaches of Miami to become an iconic housewife? Well, I had no intention of ever. moving to Miami, the goal was to live in Los Angeles. I had acquired my O-1 visa, which I, you know, took a long time to get. I don't know if you know what that is, but it's basically an extraordinary ability for what my, what I was in acting and modeling. So I got that visa and I happened to meet my ex at a pool party in Las Vegas.

as one does. When you say X, are you talking Lenny? Yeah. Are we just not using? He is what brought me to Miami. All right.

If it wasn't for Lenny, I would not be in Miami probably. Maybe now. At least he was good for something. Yeah. It was good for that. Yeah, I guess. And my kids.

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. So Lenny, so Lenny,

you to Miami, you met at a pool party. What was his opening line? You know, I don't remember even meeting him at the pool party. He later messaged me or DMed me on, what was that? Myspace. Wow. Wow. So vintage. Very vintage. I had like a really cool MySpace page. Of course you did. Who was your top friend? Promoting my modeling and you got to pick the song and the music and the background. It was, you know, I don't know. I don't know. You had, you could change the music all the time and you can make like different backdrops and it's really fun.

I spent most of my time in my accounting days when I was an accountant in a different life, like updating my MySpace. Yeah. Yeah. It was mostly ranking friends, changing my music. Yeah. I kept you busy. I learned how to code back then. Yeah, you could have a... Ten friend?

Top eight. You could change it, actually. Top eight. Yeah. You could change it to just a top friend. It was fun. And then I got this... I remember that some tequila.

She was like the big, you know, the big face of MySpace. Yes. Remember that one? Yeah. And so Lenny messaged me and it was something like, you know, what would it take you to come out to Miami? I ignored it. I was like, what's this?

You know, I got a lot of creepy messages. It wasn't that creepy, but I, I ignored it. And then later, our mutual friend said, why don't we go to Miami for Halloween? I said, sure. And then I was set up, but somehow it became a blind date with my ex. We could get, that's like too much time. So went on this blind date and went to the Halloween party. And then I remember the mutual friend saying, one day, this could all be yours. And I was laughing at that. That was funny. And then it was until it wasn't. Well, I mean, looking back at your life, like you being in Toronto, looking back, did you ever imagine your life as what it is now? I really didn't know where my life was going to take me.

I just knew I wanted to be an actress and I wanted to live in L.A. and, you know, be on a soap opera. And I guess that's where I am. Honestly, you are on a soap opera. You've made it. If you could have acted on any soap opera, what would have been your soap opera of choice? My mom loved Young and the Restless and the Bold and the Beautiful. So much so that I actually learned how to play the Young and the Restless song. No way.

I would play that for the, I played that for a recital and my mom just loved it. And she would always ask me to play it for her. It was like, did you ever meet Eileen from Young and the Restless from Beverly Hills? No, I've never met. Oh, yeah. No. So, well, let's see, should we just dive into the all things divorce and Lenny and then we'll get in, we'll just move on from, should we just dive into Lenny? And not have this small talk.

Yeah. Give us the tea, Lisa. So when did it, when did it all go wrong? Was there a turning point in the, in the marriage where you felt like, you know, this is not what I thought I signed up for. This isn't the man that I thought I married. Was there, or was it just kind of a gradual, you know, crumbling of the marriage? Well, there was an incident, and I did speak about it in season five, that happened before my son was born, obviously, where we almost, we were separated for all, maybe a month and a half. We were separated, but I was still in the house. He, I found out, I found, I caught him cheating with, I'm not, I don't want to give this person any time because, you know, these, yeah, don't, no airtime for that person. So you caught him cheating with a loser. Did I say a loser?

No, I did. Yeah. I'm saying we don't want to give them. Yeah. We're just going to call them losers. Yeah. Yeah. I said it. Yeah. They're all, if you're, if you're going to go after a married man, you're a loser. Period. Period. Mm-hmm. Period. I don't like cheaters and I don't like, yeah, they're just bad people. And I wouldn't want to do business with them. I don't want to be friends with them. I don't want to have anything to do with cheaters. I don't know why I got back together with my ex. But again, I had my kids. So there's that. So this was after the birth of yourself. that you caught him cheating. No, the first time, the first time that I, when I caught him, was before. It was around, you know, funny thing. It was around a Halloween party. That's when he started this thing. Okay.

The infamous Halloween parties that I hated, I hated because they were just full of, it was like, like a speed dating maybe for him now that I look back on it. You know? Just a bevy of half-dressed women. Yeah. Yeah. I look, I'm not a prude. I like parties and I, you know, I met him also at the Halloween party.

Wow. Huh. The patterns. Yeah. The Halloween parties are the problem. Yeah. So the Halloween parties are the problem and they just became more and more and more of a problem because there was always communication with.

single women on Instagram, inappropriate, I didn't like it. I felt like the crazy one because I would say, I don't like it. It would lead to huge fights between him and I. And he really made me feel crazy. Like I was wrong that that's not normal for me to not be okay with him having friends. He's like, they're just friends. I'm like, no, no, no. you shouldn't have like single women friends that are in their 20s.

Nope. Was he pretending like like a photographer who pretends he's like, I'm just a photographer and I want to shoot you or whatever. And like was he like offering like plastic surgery advice? Was he like saying like what was he saying was the origins of these friendships or is he just like, oh, we're just friends? It started off. That's what it started off as the invite to the Halloween party.

It was always about the Halloween party. the Halloween party is a big part of what led to a divorce okay so how did you catch him cheating you saw it on his phone you like the first time which was in 2013 um yeah I saw it on his Instagram I have you know I like Snoop sometimes sure why not and like I think we all do a little bit you know his computer was open and I love looked and I see this message from this woman and I'm like that's odd and then then I somehow was able to get his password for his iCloud like i message so i had that and then then i found out and i confronted him what did he say and yeah then he then he finally admitted it and wanted a divorce and said he didn't love me and I remember falling to the ground it's like falling to the ground yeah so Lenny has reportedly denied having an affair saying that you were living separate lives for months but he was caught on a hot mic telling a friend that you didn't know and that no one knew

about it what was your reaction to that well I already had you know this is a how many months later And I was told by the production that I'm going to see something and I'm not going to love it. But I was told, you know, last minute because apparently they discovered this footage, you know, late into the editing. So I actually, I was with Jody when I watched it and I was at my house, the old house, Star Island house. And when I saw it, I was in tears still because, look, it was still fresh, even though I would have Jody beside. I mean, even he was feeling terrible for me to see that, to see him say that while we're having a good vibes. It was a good vibes party. And I didn't think anything was wrong.

I was having, I looked back at those photos and that footage and I was having a great time. I was dancing with my daughter. It was smiles. I was taking photos with Lenny. No idea that that's what was going on. And speaking to a mutual friend, um, about. about him having a whole other relationship and wanting to leave me and that he couldn't be with me because it would be cheating on the one that he really wanted, all of that while my son is sitting

like, you know, in the other room, it was it was really, really upsetting. It was really devastating. It was heartbreaking. It was like another stab in the chest. Did you address him directly about it? Yeah. Yeah. What did he say? He's like, I don't know, like in denial. about it, like, oh, that was editing or, I mean, how can they, they're not, they're not going to edit that. They literally found that footage. Even Matt Anderson, our producer, recently went on a podcast and he spoke about finding that footage and how he felt about that, finding, finding that footage that wasn't found

in the beginning. They somehow found it. And you can't just make it up, no matter what, even if it was in a different, you know, scene, he still said that to a mutual friend. And it is what it is. Did he ever own up to you about having an affair or cheating on you? No, no, no, no. He wouldn't, he would never, he would never, um, would say anything negative about himself.

Right. What would he? Yeah. So he's never like, has he ever apologized ever for anything? Nothing. Not even. Nothing. Just so you, like, it's what I'm dealing with not one thing.

In fact, he doubles down on things. Well, going back to the first, I mean, the first instance where you caught him cheating. I mean, y'all obviously worked through that. You then had two beautiful children. I mean, how were you able to move on from that? I don't think I ever moved on. That's really, that's something really difficult to lose trust is really hard to get back in a relationship like that. And it was so embarrassing.

It wasn't so public. but all of Miami knew like people that Miami is a small town it's a small place right and everybody knew we were like the laughing stock of Miami and then now

on a much bigger scale was I embarrassed when the show came back obviously because obviously also you're choosing to get back together with him and forgiving him for something you believe happened but he's never admitted to it happening

so how yeah that must have been a challenge to even try to move forward because you're still kind of you're both kind of living this lie you're kind of you have to choose to forgive someone who's never acknowledged or apologized for the very thing that hurt you and he's still denying that it ever happened even though deep down you believe it to be true yeah he says that the that first time that nobody ever slept together which i don't believe for a second like it's you know i don't i don't believe that but that's what that's what he he still that's what

said and that's what he will continue to say but i feel otherwise and it's it's pretty clear they went to Vegas these two these i don't know they went to Vegas there was like a shopping spree um the person was rubbing in in my face like harassing us for years it was like a whole thing so yeah so like his ex was harassing you like i wouldn't say it was an ex it was like a fling or whatever that lasted up to for about a month and then he all of a sudden when I I guess took off my ring and people knew and I think I posted a photo like a you know something without my without my ring and it kind of went somewhere but you know Instagram wasn't really a thing in 2013 yeah yeah um and then that's when he kind of came back and he asked for me to come back and he posted this thing um with us our

wedding photo on his Instagram. That was like his big apology to what I had happened. And he let me have his Instagram account and password. And that was like his way to maybe solve the, but I didn't solve it, though. Like it, you know, actually probably made it worse because I was always checking and maybe neat things and making a bigger deal out of things. I think I remember maybe it was season four or season five. But there was a point where your marriage was kind of falling apart and you guys were

trying to sit down at a table and like he was giving you nothing. And I was just wondering, do you find that there was a lot of pressure on you with filming, like with him to try to present as a happy family with knowing everything that you were going through? Or like, why would you still want to film with Lenny? That's what a lot of people caught. But for me, I was so used to this behavior. I'm, I just thought like, this is him being him until I saw the footage for myself. And I'm like, well, that doesn't look, that doesn't look great. I don't like how he's treat. I don't like how he's talking to me and how he's dismissing me. But in the moment, it just felt like our normal, our normal banter. And sadly, that's what I was used to for years. Looking back,

how do you, do you ever like think about moments and watching those scenes back, seeing how he treated you? How would you have wanted to do things differently if you could do them differently? With, in terms of our marriage or in terms of like the show, like what? I get, yeah, more about the marriage just yeah more your personal life um look i tried to go to therapy he wasn't into it he didn't believe in therapy um we tried to do therapy with the lot when the last thing happened 2013 and i just gave up and i remember the therapist telling me like this is who he is yeah you're gonna have to deal with this type of behavior and i was in love and i wanted to have the family um we were trying so hard to have so. And, you know, I already invested so much of my time. I moved my whole life there.

I felt like he was genuinely sorry. And I figured, you know, it's Miami. This stuff happens all the time. You know, but I wish I stood up from, I wish I stood up for myself. I wish that I didn't let him tell me what was normal. Because my instincts were telling me this wasn't normal. This is not how marriage is supposed to be Just because we live in Miami Men aren't supposed to behave this way Men aren't supposed to be having These kind of secret conversations

With single women on Instagram Instagram models Whatever You know all this stuff was so inappropriate I felt it I knew it but I was I felt crazy He made me feel crazy And I wish that

I stood up for myself But then I always go back to Okay, but if I did that, then I wouldn't have my kids. Yeah. And I'm very grateful to have my kids. So I feel like, yes, everything happens for a reason, but I'm happy. I'm out of it now. Hey.

Did your relationship change after you had your children? It was, I mean, when we had Logan, it was, like, amazing, you know. We were so overjoyed. And Elle, same thing. But things were a little different, I think, because we were in with Elle, because we were in the Star Island House. And I remember having Elle and wanting to just have, like, all of this time with our family bonding with Elle because we just, you know, brought her home. And then he wanted to have a bunch of people over and he wanted to have a football party.

And I wouldn't typically have a problem with that. The reason we got in this big fight is because it was a bunch of promoters. There was nothing wrong with promoters. Okay. But there was a bunch of promoters and, like, young 20-something-year-old girls, all. all over the house and I have my newborn daughter upstairs. Yeah. So I just remember getting livid and going downstairs with my baby and just looking at everyone.

Like, why are you here? Right. You know? Yeah. Oh. I couldn't imagine like having, we have a young daughter ourselves. I couldn't imagine having our one and a half year old at home and me throwing an influencer party while my wife is. I took a photo that day.

of all of these girls around the pool. Like, I wanted to go downstairs and just sit by the pool with Elle and have him enjoy this blessing, this new, amazing person in our family. And he was really upset that I was angry because he really wanted to have that party. And again, I felt he made me feel crazy for getting upset that all of these random women were like, okay, have a party for football. but why does it have to be all of these people and strangers? You're probably like, I bet none of these girls can tell me the score.

You know? None. Yeah. It's also like you're all, you know, you bring home a newborn baby from the hospital. You're already like they don't need to be around other people. You know, they're so fresh and germs. Germs. And then he's like, no, here's a bunch of strangers that like I've never met and definitely like aren't going to be a part of our daughter's life.

Like definitely aren't important. Like, sure, let's have them around our... He definitely invited gonorrhea and chlamydia over. That's crazy. You know? Yeah. It's crazy. I'm...

It's crazy that he made you feel crazy at that moment because you had every right. I mean... I mean, and I think he had enablers around him or like flying monkeys all around him where they would say, yeah, bro, like, she's crazy. You know, your wife was such a bitch. You know what I mean? Yeah. These are the type of people that were around him.

None of them were married. Red flag. Red flag. You heard one of his friends call you a bitch to him. He would tell me that. He's like, oh, all my friends think you're a bitch because I was mad that there was all these parties with a bunch of single girls in their 20s

that I had nothing in common with, and neither did he. And it's fine. Okay, like, I'm not a prude. It's fine to have people over. So I guess the guy, single guy, friend's going to ask him. No, that's crazy. That's weird as fuck.

It's not fine. You see I'm still making excuses. No, no. It's like, yeah, you can still. I literally felt like, thank you for, you know, like, I'm actually happy. This is therapeutic because all these years and up until like three years ago, four years ago, like I was made to feel like maybe this is my fault. It's, I'm wrong because I was angry that he wanted to have friends. There's just friends, Lisa.

Like, his friends were freeloader. You're sending the wrong message to these women when you're inviting them over asking them if they want to have a, if you actually asked one of them if he could throw her her birthday party. And if I could help plan it. I'm like absolutely. What the hell? This is what I'm saying. My friends are freeloaders and they're mad because the wife is cock blocking from them getting laid from drinking your alcohol from hanging out at Star Island at your house. Lisa, you deserve a man who worships.

the ground that you walk on. Absolutely. And, you know, you deserve, like, his only response should have been when you were having his beautiful children should have been like, what do you need? How can I serve you? How can I make you happy? Are you comfortable? Are you relaxed?

How can I eliminate stress from your life? That should have been his only job at that time in your life. Yeah. But clearly, he had other plans. Oh, my God. So, like, looking back, and, you know, we obviously a lot of women, a lot of young women listening to this episode, you know, what would you tell your, younger self because like sadly like as much as we're all like holy shit i can't believe you had to go

through this like sadly there are like relationships out there and men who find this behavior to be normal or like this type of kind of gaslighting behavior so what are those signs that you would have told younger you and if there's a young woman out there who maybe like they're they're listening to utah and she's like my boyfriend throws parties for models too uh what would you what would you say to a younger self or to the young lady who's watching or listening to this episode, what are some signs to look out for? Thank you.

You are not, sorry, you are not crazy. Even the men that try to justify following a bunch of Instagram models publicly at that. I mean, go do it on your burner account, maybe. Even that is better than the public liking, the public communicating, the DMing,

all of that. That is not okay. Red flag. And if you see that behavior, run for your life because it's not going to get any better. It's going to get worse. They are going to cheat on you. And your marriage is going to end up in divorce. So run, run, run. And that's what I would tell my daughter, don't let your dust, like someone's dusty son come around and, you know, love bomb you with things. And, you know, that's also a red flag. The love bombing, the, you know, promise of a life. And, you know, promise of a life and like first of all number one red flag if they're already married let's talk

about that then and they have two kids especially one that's just born that's probably not the man for you yeah you know like the ones so yeah like all of that how have you navigated with your children obviously like children are sponges they pay attention to everything and they have this father who doesn't treat their mother with any ounce of respect. I mean, how are you, you must be working overtime to like show your children what true love is and like how to actually treat a partner. Well, my kids see that. I don't know. I really don't know what's fully going on only from what my children tell me. Logan is very smart. My kids are so smart. just like everyone says what my kids are, it blows my mind, the things that come out of their

mouth. They're listening to everything. They see everything. They probably read things online, which, which sucks, you know, like our divorce was so public. I don't know, one of the worst divorces I've ever seen, and it's mine, you know what I mean? Like, play out in the public. somebody compared our divorce once and I'll never forget it to like Donald Trump and Ivanka Trump's crazy divorce because it was just so it was just all over the media. So that really hurts me from my kids. And look, even now I'm like, oh, I'm still, you know, but it's it's out there. It's out there. And yeah, I'm kind of biting my tongue now because I'm just. You know, I'm talking about them seeing stuff, but it's, it's hard because they're going to see it. Well, yeah. We're going to Google themselves.

They're going to see, you know, a Huxstein. They're going to go and they're going to see everything. But what's unfortunate about it is, like, you can only tell what has happened to you, what you've lived through, what you've had to survive. It's unfortunately their father who's made a lot of poor decisions and have, and as he chose to treat their mother with such disrespect that, like, that's a conversation he's going to have to have with. like you can walk and hold your head high knowing that like you've had the most respect for yourself and for your children and like have tried to handle this with as much grace as possible but like it's hard when he's putting you in these situations that he's putting you in not only that i i really tried to as you know everybody knows i stayed clear of all the

podcast everybody wanted me on their podcast in the beginning stages of all of this and i always said no i wasn't ready to to talk about it i was contractually and it's my job to be on my show and to talk about my real life right yeah so i couldn't get out of that one and um i'm happy i did because it showed my side and it and it definitely um level the playing field you know imagine i didn't have that my side what i don't know what i would have what i would have done without the show, you know? Yeah. The producers were very, very, very supportive of what was happening to me.

And all the, you know, the women were very supportive too. All everybody was. So to have that really, really helped me because maybe it stopped him from doing worse things because I did have this platform. Yeah, there's a record of like what you went through. And honestly, I think it was season six last. was like the one during your divorce. And I feel like that was really hard to watch because you're literally just like doing the best you can. And this guy is just throwing grenades at you left and right. And then it's like you have the women where I was like who was the most supportive friend out of the cast for you during your divorce? Because it kind of felt like you were on your own there for a bit. Well, you know, we're not in a great place now. But I do have to say that Larsa was really there for me.

Yeah. And, you know, I missed that. But things are not so great this year. We'll get into that later. But she was, she was really there for me. Your ex Lenny, you've mentioned a few times publicly that he's a bit of retaliatory in terms of controlling funds and kind of getting back at you and trying to punish you for whatever he thinks you're doing wrong. Is he still making your life miserable or is he still very retaliatory? And I guess how do you try to navigate, you know, just even doing this interview, like speaking up for yourself and trying to get the truth out there versus having to live in fear with your ex and how he might respond to you speaking up honestly about your situation. Well, you know what? All I say is the truth. So I'm not afraid to speak the truth is when you lie. You have a problem. Things were getting better once him and his ex-fiance when they finally broke up, even the first time they broke up. There were less articles coming out, if you know what I mean, because this one was really trying to make a name for

herself. I think that she used my family, my kids, the show to gain fame, notoriety. But it didn't work out. And I think after three years, seeing that she wasn't being received by anyone in a positive light at all, she wasn't becoming this big famous model that she thought she was going to be or I heard someone say, allegedly, that she wanted to be the new queen of Miami, which I've never even called myself

the queen of Miami's, you know, please. There was a lot of issues, more issues, when they were together, because I feel that she was inserting herself so much into her. our divorce that it made it ten times worse. And then it got a little bit easier. And I don't know, now it's not again. So it's a lot of up and down with this man. It's not great right now for sure. Is that because he has a new girlfriend? Is he, is that true? Is he dating someone new? Yeah, he has a

new girlfriend. So I just don't think he's a happy person. How long did you find out about his relationship with his ex-fiance before it went public. How long did you know before everyone else knew? Oh, she was quick to get it out there. Yeah.

Okay. Because I remember it was April 27th, 2022. I remember all the dates that are like meaningful, you know, like significant days.

So it was that day is the day he told me he wants a divorce and that day I knew that something bad was happening. Like this wasn't a joke. This wasn't a test run. This was actually happening.

Actually, two months before that, received a DM from a follower fan, I guess. And she said, I am so sorry, Mrs. Hockstein. I just saw your husband at this building, which turned out to be her building she was living in at that time. And he was with this tall, young, skinny model. And they were all over each other, whatever. And I was actually out of wedding solo because he didn't want to go with me because I guess this is what he was. doing. And on the way back from Palm Beach, it's a long drive. I called and I'm like, what, what am I, what am I, what's going on? Why are you at this building? Who is this girl? And it's not like this, like, building you would think somebody would have this great after party. It was just a normal building in, in Brickle or wherever, wherever it was. And he said, oh, no, it was just like an after party. And I'm like, well, you should have been at the wedding with me, but whatever. And then turns out that that is her building. So it turns out that he was with her. even months ago. Not to like judge lifestyles or anything like that, but why is a man in his late

40s, early 50s with two children at home and a wife at a wedding going to afterparties? He's almost 60, by the way. Oh, he's almost 60. Even better. Sorry. Yeah. Why did he feel like after parties was a priority in his life? Well, I mean, why were Halloween parties a priority? He liked to party. That should have been not a priority. You need to through changes in life and like, look, that was maybe what we wanted to do when we first met. But then you have a family and things should change naturally. The groups of friends, you know, like I was gravitated towards friends, like friends that had families. And he didn't want that. So we were really kind of like, I guess now that I'm saying it out loud, yeah, those

were the issues, you know, like I wanted a family life. I wanted to be with my kids and go on vacations with like-minded people, you know, like maybe parents, fun parents, not whatever. He just didn't think parents were fun with kids. I'm like, well, some of them are. You know, we're fun. Like, so maybe there's other fun parents. I mean, if you like being around your kids, they can be fun. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think, do you think Lenny's a good dad? I don't. Okay, moving on. All right. Is it difficult or do any of his new girlfriends or ex-fiances, do they try being stepmoms or anything like that? Is that kind of weird? Or, you know, how do you handle that shit? Yeah. The last one tried. Tried so hard and tried to rub it in my face.

And I think that's disgusting. And then, of course, quickly the mask, you know, fell off. You know, you can only put up that performance. You can only be so performative for so long. You know, I don't think she thought she was going to be the girlfriend or fiancé for that long, you know, and then the mask fell off. Because, like, how can you play this game when you really don't give a shit about my kids or their well-being? I was actually, you know, worried about the kids with her around. I was afraid. So certain things happened. I won't even repeat it.

But there were things that happened that were very concerning that the kids were telling me and her friends were telling me. And is it safe to say, like, you guys completely 100% over, no going back, this is a relationship that will never, ever happen again? Is that safe to say? Oh, romantically never, ever. Just want to make sure. You know, I really had hopes of us one day. I'm like, you know, time will pass. Maybe one day we could be friends.

Like maybe, you know, like my boyfriend's ex-wife and her. her husband, I love them. We go on ski trips together with our kids. You know, I invite them over for Christmas, for Thanksgiving, all of that. It's so beautiful. And I really wish that I was hoping that one day, Lenny and I, and not the last girl, she was, that would never happen. But even maybe the new, maybe she has a new one. I was like, I don't know, maybe it could work out. But he's showing me that that might never happen. And that's really sad because the hate. for me is where is that coming from why is there so much hate for me when you did what you what he did to me and to us publicly you know like it could have been handled so differently and then we

wouldn't be in this predicament like I wanted wanted to even help him during times when the business maybe wasn't doing well like things like that I really want I was like how can I help would you come on the show and then, you know, maybe we could come together and it would be great for everybody, for yourself, for business, for the kids. Like, let's show that. And there were times where he was like, maybe. And then it was like, no. And I don't know if he was influenced by the then-fiancee. I don't know. But there were times I was trying to help. Like, I really wanted to help. I really bit my tongue. I wanted to help. Yeah. Do you sound like one of the most understanding chill ex-wives ever like you're so nice well thank you i i i mean i i i feel like i'm

more chill than ever um i for sure in the beginning of this was not chill i was the opposite of chill you were hurt very i mean i i was i'm i'm finally i think getting back to my original self to my like to who i am and i'm really i did it there's a lot of work that came along with that therapy, Jody, Alex, like, you know, my kids, like everything, just time. But it took a long time to get here for sure. I have a question, kind of a diss. But I just noticed that you were 24 when you met Lenny and he was in his 40s. And then like all of his fiancés or ex-girlfriends now are also in their 20s as he's getting older.

I'm like, do you think he was having a midlife crisis when he met you? Or like, is he just ever going to grow out of? of this. I know that he really, when he met me, I know he always wanted children. Like, he really did want kids. I wanted kids. And he was having really bad luck finding someone that he wanted to, you know, be with and have kids with. You know, 16 years is not that bad, I don't think. Like even Nick and I are 18 years. So yeah, you're in good company. Yeah. So, you know, I didn't think that was that bad and then then he goes with somebody that's like he said he would never do that and then he's with somebody what is it 30 years and now it's what is it what is it now the one now

is like 25 25 so it's just yeah I think it's um I think it's maybe a midlife crisis and I also think that younger women are easier to manipulate and control and new and shining things are more impressive to, you know, somebody who's 25, maybe, still want to party or after party with him at 60? Speaking of new and shiny things, are his abs surgically enhanced? I mean, I don't know. Period. Period. Period. Period. I think, I think he's on this big health kick, you know? And he was on this health quick, too, when he met the, when he, well, when he started

the new relationship, which I had no idea. Because I was like, wow, he's really working out. And I was saying it. I'm like, wow, guys, like, Lenny is looking so good. I was so in love with him, you know? I really was. And no one understood why. None of my friends understood why I loved, I loved this man, but I loved him.

I thought it was forever. I never thought of divorce. I always thought, we're going to be together until, like, I'm going to be pushing him around in a wheelchair. Changing his diapers one day. I don't know. Because I even, like, our age difference was enough. I was like, where's he going to go? Yeah.

I want to switch gears a little bit to the current season. And I want to go back to the red flags game. Why were all the women still, like, picking you for the biggest red flag? And how do you feel about that? Okay. So I think that I walked into that one by being late that day, you know, and they needed, look, they needed somebody to put the red flags. into, right? And then pile in on. But I think me being late, I was an easy target, first of all. Like, oh, well, everyone's mad at her anyway. So let's all gang up on her. But the thing is,

I literally just came back from saying goodbye to my father in Toronto. So I was really disturbed by all the red flags and the lack of support and the lack of empathy and the lack of even saying, hey, how are you doing? You know, you just buried your dad or how's, how's it going? How do you feel? Because I really didn't get that from anybody, just Adriana, honestly, at that time. And I also think that narcissism is something that's, it's like a real thing that needs to be diagnosed by, oh yeah, and Gertie was there for me, but it needs to be diagnosed by a clinical

therapists and this word is like thrown around so loosely and they all have these tendencies and some of them I think might might even have it you know I'm not going to say who but I think some of them might um because they all show this we all show like characteristics all of us like we're all on Instagram we're all on TV you know it there's a lot of um red flags that should have been put in their cups, but they didn't want to take accountability. So I was the target. And I thought that was very unfair. And I thought it was terrible timing. And for me, if I knew my friend had just lost their dad, I would have given them a big hug. And instead of having a narcissist party for them, I would have had a, you know, celebration of life for their family. Yeah. Why do you feel

like you and Larsa are struggling so much right now. Oof. There's so much to dive into in that one. But it started before filming, I would say. Okay. Is it safe to say it's still going on? Yeah. And then I guess you have to see in the reunion.

Like a lot is revealed about all of this in the reunion that we just filmed. Okay. And I'm pretty sure we're going to get three parts of this reunion because hopefully because it was a doozy. I mean, I don't get shocked anymore by a lot of things, but I'm speechless in some of the things that are going to be revealed in this reunion. It's bad. It's like some people, I don't know if some people can come back from it.

Okay. Yeah. But I am hopeful that Larissa and I can repair our, were a relationship because she was there for me. Look, she was there for me when I was going through that, but was she there for you with your dad dying? No. No.

That's unfortunate. Speaking of people being mad about the reunion, a lot of fans were, seemed to be frustrated that Stephanie got a seat next to Andy in the infamous seating chart. Can you confirm, A, that Stephanie was in fact sitting next to Andy, and how did you feel about that? Yeah, I can confirm it because it was the seating chart was released by Bravo.

Yeah. It was on their website. There were a lot of opinions about that one. What did you think about it? They weren't good. They weren't pro Stephanie. For me, I didn't care. Like, look, I was just happy to be second seat.

I'm first or second, which I am usually first or second. And I don't think I've ever been third. That's right. Let's go. There you go. exactly I'm always first or second so I was like yeah whatever honestly the second seat is a lot less pressure than the first seat you and Stephanie kind of got into it for the narcissism party what was your take on her joining the cast and like what's your relationship like I have a good relationship with Stephanie I think she's funny and I would catch her profile and I would say how she'd make a good housewife actually I used to say that and now that she's here she she does add a lot of you know like she has the lifestyle the fashion she's feisty she's very opinionated um she was a little too opinionated for my liking that first day i met her but we fixed that real quick so i checked

her also yes you did she try to check me i checked her back uh-huh and then y'all called the truth we've been fine did you check in with larsa after her PRP allergic reaction um i didn't want to touch that one okay I didn't want to go there. And she didn't follow me, too. So I unfollowed her. She unfollowed me like a couple weeks ago, I guess. And Kiki's blocking Gertie.

I mean, there's just some. I saw that. I don't know why. That one is very confusing to me. Hmm. I just think that that's, I think that's a big, big mistake. Huge. I don't think that's going to go well.

I don't, I don't think that was a good idea. I don't think I'll zip it down. Well, Lisa, before we let you go, as they say, when a door closes, sometimes people open a window. And on the heels of your divorce and all your heartbreak, you have created, it sounds like, an app for people also going through divorce. Can you tell us a little bit more about it? Yeah, so split well that has been in the works for the last two years. And Jody has been very significant in that, of course, he has a, you know, he has a tech AI background. He's a genius on these things.

He is one of my investors, my advisors. It's an AI-powered divorce support app, which I think is really the first of its kind. And I saw the need for this going through what I was going through. And then now AI at that time was just becoming very, very, very popular. And people were just starting to understand it. And like, as I think everyone knows now, you need to get on that train because that's where the world is headed. So I think we got on that at the right time. And I think the tools, AI is just amazing if it's used properly.

And it's really, it saved me thousands of dollars when we were still like in beta. testing for this app. You know, it's, it has everything you can think of to help you through your divorce, recommended attorneys, a note taker app. I mean, a note taker in within the app is one of the features. It has a document, you can under all of your documents, upload them, it translates them. It has everything to help de-escalate the conflict, to reduce, reduce the cost. and to level the playing field, to, you know, to level the power.

Because a lot of the times the men, you know, they, factually, they have the power. They have the advantage in the divorce because they usually have the money. They have more of the understanding of legal. Most women, like myself, had no idea. I've never even gotten, like, so much as a speeding ticket. So having to call your lawyer for every little thing was, is very expensive. expensive. So this helps with all of that. It's actually free right now. It's available on the App Store. We're launching Android so Android users can use it very soon and check it out because we want your

feedback. There you go. And I think it's going to change the world. I hope so. Sounds like it will. Yeah. Lisa, thank you so much for your time. It was great chatting with you. Hopefully next time we'll be able to do it in person. So sorry that you had to go through all this, the divorce and everything, but you're very brave. We're very lucky to have been able to chat with you. Please let my audience know where they can find you and follow you and all that fun stuff. Yeah. Lisa Hawstein. That's everywhere. Lisa Hawkestein. And then Splitwell app on Instagram. We're trying to get split well, but someone stole it or something. But everywhere else, split well. Splitwell. Split. well like you want to split and you want to do it well love it uh all right lisa good luck with

everything going forward i'm glad you don't have to go any more influencer parties um well find them so those those ones yeah those are gross yuki yeah want to get paid you're the best lisa we appreciate you a start bye bye bye all right well thank you guys for listening thank you to all our guest freddie Brian and Lisa Hawstein. We appreciate them all for joining us. We'll see you tomorrow. Bye.