The Viall Files - E986 – Going Deeper with James Gunn

Episode Date: August 20, 2025

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper edition.  Superman. Guardians of the Galaxy. The live action Scooby Doo films. These are just some of the things our incredible guest James Gunn has created, and we’re incredibly excited and honored to welcome him to the show! James sits down for a chat to get into his childhood, writing process, music, the new season of Peacemaker, and more! (BONUS: he even loves reality tv!!) You will DEFINITELY not want to miss this one.  “I really enjoy watching people who get to shine." Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  Are you struggling with any sort of dating, relationship, or life dilemma? Do you want all the answers? Email [e-mail] with your question in the subject line to express interest in appearing on the show!  To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   Thank You to Our Sponsors: Nutrafol - Find out why Nutrafol is the best-selling hair growth supplement brand at https://nutrafol.com, promo code VIALL. Quince - Keep it classic and cool — with long-lasting staples from Quince. Go to https://quince.com/viall for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Coop Sleep Goods - Upgrade your summer sleep. Visit https://coopsleepgoods.com/VIALL to get 20% off your first order. Pretty Litter - Right now save 20% on your FIRST order and get a free cat toy at https://prettylitter.com/viall  Open Phone - OpenPhone is offering our listeners 20% off of your first 6 months at https://openphone.com/viall  Chewy - Chewy has everything you need to keep your pet happy and healthy. And right now you can save $20 on your first order and get free shipping by going to https://chewy.com/viall  Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @jamesgunn

James, welcome to the show. Oh, man, it's good to be here. This is really exciting for me. I'm glad you're here. I'm very excited about talking about Peacemaker. But just like right off to get, like anecdotally, you know, thinking about having you come in. It's a cool moment for me. I've known you for a long time.

I know. We've known you. Well, you met me as a fan of yours. because I was I liked you on the Bachelor and then when you had your season of The Bachelor

I did a little video for the show saying we're team me and Jen did a video where I said you know we're team Nick go Nick right it was something like that

yeah and it was and it was you know because Alangale yes was the greatest he's one of my best friends in the world greatest showing around with the Bachelor yeah the single most reason why I was ever the bachelor there's a lot of people who will uh take credit for whatever success they think

i've had yeah on that show and it's really i know it's a lot yeah um he always advocated for me because i was never one of the i was never like their kind of guy so to speak yeah um but i was alon's kind of guy which i appreciated but it reminded like just when i started this show was right before you had your going away party for uh suicide squad too uh huh and you graciously invited to me and I could only make the first hour because that was the first and only live show I've ever done. But I had, I was like less than 10 episodes in. We're about to hit our thousands episode, a thousand episodes. So to have you like to have you here as a guest is a cool moment and a chance to interview you when it's just like it made me think about just how you

started your career. I mean, you're the head of DC studios, director of some of the coolest movies, certainly comic books out there. Reali TV fan we love to throw in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, like, also just, do you ever just, like, look back in your career and, like, reflect on just, like, you know, how it started

to how it is and ever... Yeah. How surreal does it sometimes feel? I'm here promoting Peacemaker, right? And I've done... I'm doing a lot for the season of Peacemaker, and it's because I love the show so much. But it isn't... It is a communal sport. It's like, it's not what I

I did, although I do like my work on the show, but I love the work of, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the other people that added to the show. I'm so proud of all of that. Um, that it's, it's, it's just been this just wonderful, wonderful journey with this show, um, through two seasons that in it's, there's no holds barred with this show. I'm able to do anything. And we do do anything, you know, even if it's a dance, sequence to you know heads exploding to an orgy to deep emotional resonant scenes all of it's available to us and it's just been so much fun well that's why i love peacemaker so much i've told you this for everything you just described and i think just in general i've always been a fan of your work is i'm i'm more of the casual comic book fan like i wasn't the kid who read every comic book i watched the movies you know i grew up watching star wars and things like that and i've always felt like whether it was Guardians of Galaxy, Superman, Peacemaker for sure, anyone can watch it. You don't, like, you, because I...

Hopefully not small children watch it. Not small children, but any adult, certainly. Any adult. Because you're so good at interpersonal relationships. And then so much of your work, I just feel like you're connecting to the human spirit, so to speak. And you can watch it, not necessarily being someone who's like a diehard comic book fan and connect to the characters that you write.

like is that is intentional for you or are you is that something that just kind of organically happens i think it's organic i mean i just i love characters you know i love the characters that i write i really fall in love with them um but i also you know i love comic books and comic book characters and they're outlandish and at times can be silly and at times can be you know creepier whatever um but for me it always starts with the question what if they were real and the thing that is the most important to be real for me is their psychological who they are and how they think and what they believe you know and so when I make the Superman movie you know I think there's been a lot of Superman movies and usually

it's super first man second our movie is man first super second and that's what it's about with peacemaker he's not even as I mean the costume is just it's it's just the thing he wears and he doesn't even wear it that much in season two yeah and it really is the Christopher Smith show, you know, or the Christopher Smith and friends show. And that's those characters I fall in love with. I mean, I love, you know, one of the weird things about Peacemaker, too, and I'm getting off track of anything you're asking me, is that, so I made three, you know, Guardians movies, and that's what I'm mostly associated with. That's, you know, six hours of film. I've made two seasons of Peacemaker, you know, and that's, you know, it's not,

They're not each an hour, but, you know, it's, it's, it's, you know, over 10 hours of film. And so these characters are the characters I've gotten to know the best in a lot of ways. And, and really have by far, to me, the 11th Street kids have the most complicated personalities or complex personalities of any of the characters I've dealt with. And when you're writing these characters, are you writing with an actor in mind or does that come so? When I first write? Yeah. Well, I mean, so in Peace, yes, in Peacemaker, I can tell you completely what I did. So the character of Peacemaker, of course, I already had established that in Suicide Squad. So that was John.

The character of Amelia Harcourt, who played by my wife Jen and John Economos and my friend Steve, they were both in Suicide Squad. So those three characters were like the foundation. Then I needed a, I really wanted somebody who was the opposite force of Peacemaker in the first season, somebody who was going to challenge all of his thoughts and who he was about the world, but also kind of create a buddy comedy between a romance that's platonic between two characters who were completely different. And so I created the character of Leota Etabio. And I loved Orange is a New Black, but I especially loved a couple of actors on that show, one of whom was Daniel Brooks.

And so I did write the show thinking of imagining. Danielle as the character not knowing for sure that she was going to be able to do it or that HBO would be yeah, okay, you can do it with Daniel Brooks versus oh no, we need a bigger star or something. And

so it was always written for Danielle. You know, but other times like I wrote in the first season there's a character of Mern played by Chakudio Uji who went up to play the High Evolutionary. Great guy. One of the best actors I've ever worked with. And I wrote that role for Lance Reddick. If you remember

I remember Lance from, you know, what's Lance Moved, The Wire. Okay, yeah. And Lance wanted to do it, but he couldn't because he had another show. And so I had to find another actor. And Chuck Woody came in, and it wasn't like he just had a completely different take on the character. And I think it's probably the best performance in season one. Yeah, so it just, it changed. So that challenges you to kind of go back in and tweak those characters to maybe you're new?

Somebody, somebody like Chuck just, he just found a way in. He didn't, there was nothing changed about the dialogue that the character said. But the way he approached it was so, which was how he got that role because there's a scene where he is, because his character has been taken over by a butterfly, which is these insects that crawl into people's brains and drive them around like skin cars. but they still retain the memories and the feelings and the emotions and the thoughts of whoever the post body is. So they're able to access all those feelings. And he has to deliver this speech about how he took over the worst person in the world he could find because he wanted to be moral about it. But he still lives with that person's thoughts and feelings and sees that even he had the capacity to change. And it's just such a multiple.

multi-layered performance that if you see Chuck do it, is like, wow, crazy. How, like, growing up, I mean, you've, when I went to the Garden of the Galaxy two premiere, you invited me to, and you kind of addressed the audience and briefly just talked about, you know, you kind of your inspiration writing, and I think you referenced, like, the relationship growing up with your parents and things like that. So how is that, you know, just in general, again, that kind of in touchness that you have with your, your emotions and your interest in those interpersonal relationships, like, as a young man, were you always pretty self-aware about your emotions and things like that?

No, no, I really wasn't. I was a pretty rough kid, but I got sober when I was very young. Okay. And went through rehab when I was 19 years old and stayed sober since then. And I think that gave me an access to my emotions and feelings that most guys especially don't have it 19 years old. Now, I still was incredibly rough around the edges. Sure. You know, played in bands and still was not, you know, I used every other drug that wasn't actually a drug to cover up my feelings.

But it was, but it did start this, I think, journey in life. of trying to be equally attuned to my thoughts and my feelings and being aware of how those things drive me and where those things are a way to cover up. It's funny because we were, you know, we're here in town in New York celebrating my birthday with my best friends. I was sitting outside with Michaela Hoover this morning. And I lost my temper slightly with something this morning, not on a person, but something I had heard somebody say, and I was complaining about it. And she said, but it's good to feel anger.

I said, I don't know. I don't really feel anger is actually a feeling. I think that anger is the thing we do to avoid something else. I think that we feel embarrassment. And so we react with anger because we want to deny that. We feel hurt. So we react with anger. Anger is really, we feel fear, we react with anger.

And especially men, that's like something we do all the time. And I'm not a psychologist, although I do have a psychology degree, but I'm not a psychologist. And I, you know, maybe there is some sort of pure anger that has nothing to do related to another emotion. No, I think that makes a lot of sense. For the most part, it seems like it's always covering up something else. Yeah, it's like the initial reaction and you don't know how to process it. And so it manifests in the form of anger. Of anger.

Yeah. Which is with this whole story of Rocket Raccoon, right? Like, that's his whole incredible, that's his journey over three movies is he's angry, but he's not. He's alone, you know? He's alone and, you know, he doesn't have a sense of purpose. Do your characters, whether throughout all your different projects, do they ever represent a very specific person in your life throughout your life?

or you know definitely i mean yandu's my dad i mean yandu is so much my dad you know um totally imperfect father growing up but i knew he loved me at the end of the day and i always think that if your parents give you one thing is it's that they love you and i think that if you know you're loved by your parents i mean my dad was really bad in certain ways growing up but i'd rather have that bad stuff sure and know i was loved yeah than the other way around somebody who's sort of perfect but you don't feel like they love you, you know? Yeah. That's hard.

Yeah, because there's new parents. Like, we're, that's the thing. We want to make sure our daughter feels our love. And like we do our best to be parents. You know we're going to fuck up. Yeah. We know we'll mess up. But it's, yeah, you just want to be there.

Yeah. Yeah. So my dad, I mean, my dad was never there, but he, he did love me. I knew he loved me. And that's a weird thing. I don't know why. I just knew that he did. Probably because he was very an emotional, you know, Irish.

Did you know it growing up? Or was that something you, look back and now you're able to do. Well, I mean, there were a couple of rough years there in the middle, but for the most part, I knew he loved it. If you're dealing with hair issues like thinning or shedding, but feel totally stuck on what to try next, I get it. I've definitely been there. There are so many products out there, and it's hard to know which are actually going to do anything. That's exactly why I gave Nutrafol a closer look probably six years ago. It's not just hype. It's physician formulated, clinically tested, and even recommended

by dermatologist. Nutraful is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand trusted by over 1.5 million people. Anything truly worthwhile takes time and effort. And with Nutrafol, see thicker, stronger, faster-growing hair and less shedding in just three to six months. You can feel great about what you're putting into your body since Nutrafol hair go supplements are backed by peer-reviewed studies in NSF content certified, the gold standard and third-party certification for supplements. I have used just about every product that Nutrafol offers and I swear by them. I chopped my hair off at the beginning of this year. I went like shoulder length. It was so short. I was so scared. And then I was like, oh my God, why did I do this?

Then I was taking Nutrafol, and in four months, my hair was long and luxurious and amazing and so healthy. I post before and after photos all the time. I swear by it. It actually works. My mom takes it. Nick's Mom takes it. I recommend it to everyone. See thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months with Nutraful.

For a limited time, Neutreful is offering our listeners $10 off of your first month subscription and free shipping. When you go to Neutrafol.com and enter the promo code V-I-A-L. find out why Neutrofoil is the best-selling hairgo supplement brand at Neutrofo.com. spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L dot com, promo code V-I-A-L. That's Neutrofoil.com, promo code V-I-A-L-L. Why drop a fortune on basics when you don't have to? Quince has the good stuff, high-quality fabrics, classic fits, and lightweight layers for warm weather, all at prices that make sense. Everything I've ordered from Quince has been nothing but solid.

They have an amazing line of linen, amazing line of cashmere. You can't find cashmere for less than $100, literally anywhere, but Quince has $50. cashmere and cotton sweaters. They have great classic stuff that you will wear until the end of time. And the best part, everything with Quince is half the cost of similar brands. They work directly with top artisans and cutting out the middleman. Quince gives you the luxury pieces without the markup. Also, if you're looking for luggage, top tier luggage, let me tell you. Quins has the good stuff. Keep it classic and cool with long lasting staples from Quince. Go to quince.com slash V-A-L for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash V-A-L-L to get free shipping

and 365-day returns, quince.com slash V-I-A-L. You've worked with, obviously, John, Sina for Peacemaker, David Petista for in Guardians of the Galaxy. And I have like a special appreciation for those particular actors. When I got done with reality TV and I went out to Hollywood and I, you know, got into acting and hosting and doing this, when you come from a like a very like reality TV space, there's a lot of like you get pigeonholing people make a lot of assumptions about you and it was

when my friends would say well why why are you doing this like no one's ever really successfully transitioned and i'd always reference people like john and david as people it's just like they used to be wrestlers these only be known as wrestlers and they have become brilliant actors like i really like respect what john and david have done because you can tell they hone it on their craft is it a coincidence you've worked so much with both of these guys and you're what do you like what do you think makes them so unique and i because it to me it feels like they have this incredible work ethic in like dedication to their craft and i think it really it shows in their work yeah it they're both incredibly talented guys i mean the thing that

attracted me to dave was he just had this rawness and this realness in his eyes that was just really potent and uh and i loved that about him and it's actually not that much different than with with John, you know, and John, of course, is now the actor I've probably worked with the most. He's, you know, incredibly close friend. And I think that people who see this season of peacemaker are going to be freaked out by how good he is. Because he's gotten so much better. He is incredible in this season. But with him, there was a moment in the suicide squad where he has his gun pointed at,

Danielle Melcher's character, Ratcatcher 2, and she's kind of crying, and he's going to kill her. And you know he doesn't want to, but it's this weird commitment to keeping the piece that's going to make him shoot a young girl. And I go into this close-up on his eyes, and you can just see everything working there behind his eyes. and that's not something everyone can do, even good actors. I can name some famous good actors who I don't think can do that. And John, it was there with John. And I saw, that was sort of the seed of the Peacemaker series, you know. That was where I saw there was something in this guy that I could help bring out.

And actually, John Seine and Chris Pratt are very similar in some ways. And that they're both guys who are performers, who are entertainers. and we're always entertaining and the main thing to get to with both of those guys was allowing them to what i call stop juggling stop tap dancing just be because there's something about you're a movie star and there's a unique unusual likeability and vulnerability to you in the moment and you don't need to prove to other people that you're likable so if you're if you can stop proving you're in the, you're in the arena. And so it's really like sculpture.

It's not teaching. It's just getting rid of habits. And then working with John, especially over peacemaker season one where he got to this new level. And then he took all of that stuff and has been acting for the past two years nonstop, refining that stuff and getting better with it. And then by the time we came to the first ever, episode of this season of peacemaker, which you've seen. And he has the moment where, you know,

he's with his kind dad in the alternate world. And he says, you know, goodbye to him. And he walks out and I'm like, John, I think you break down crying here. And John had a really hard time in the first season with a crying scene, which was a much more comedic crying scene. So it was kind of, it was harder in some ways, but not, but I'm in this close up on John. And I just see, he's like okay and his dad walks out and you just see him bring his hand to his face and tears spill down his eyes and then he breaks down and sobs and I'm like holy cow that's not usual for a wrestler or for any actor you know frankly especially male actors and so it was like it was so different he was so in touch with the rawness of his emotions and it is a much different season because

of where I think both John and I are at emotionally because of the character and how he's changed from the first season and because, you know, John as an actor is just so much more able to do his thing. There isn't, you know, this isn't about the blustery peacemaker who's pushing everyone away by saying things that are politically incorrect. This is about a guy who's totally messed up and aware he's messed up and trying to find a little bit of joy in the universe and not really having an easy time at doing it. Did it almost, when he showed up to film season two, is it like he came from almost like a,

I always think of like a training sequence, you know, like, whether it's a sports movie or a superhero movie or whatever. He's been really working on his craft and he kind of almost showed up like, is that kind of almost how it fell to him? Yeah, he's always totally prepared. I mean, that's the thing.

But just like another level. Yeah, all these guys, this crew is always totally prepared. They come in, they know the scripts backwards and forward, and they're, you know, just really, it is a real family on set. It's such a family, you know, I mean, Daniel Brooks and Freddie Stroma, who plays Vigilante, they live next near me in Atlanta, like. Oh, really? Oh, yeah, that's, you know, they're a part of my friend's circle.

So it's, it is, and it's really close. And John lives nearby in Florida. And, yeah, it's just a really close group of people. Steve Agee, who plays John of Connemus, has been my friend for 17 years, I think. So it's an unusual. group of people. You mentioned your psychology degree. Has there been anything, I mean, and you've also written a ton of characters. Have you done anything specific to get like in the mind of a specific character that would only work for that character? I mean, I read a lot. You know, I do, I do a lot of

research. If I'm, you know, writing someone who's a journalist like Lois Lane, I really do go and learn what it's like to be a journalist. I wanted, you know, I didn't want, you know, a lot of times in some of these shows it doesn't, Losling doesn't necessarily seem like a real journalist. She seems like it's, that's her job and that's what's hung on her, but she's not really, but I wanted her to be a real journalist. And so, you know, you have to learn a little bit about that. And Rachel did the same thing. She went out and talked to journalists and learned about what it was like to have that career, you know.

But in terms of, I don't think I ever do anything I can think of to get into the mind of a character, but I do, I just read a lot, you know. So I read, you know, when there's books on writing that kind of. come out. I still keep up and try to learn new things that I don't know. I'm just always trying to learn, you know, always trying to get better, you know. Is it hard for you to separate your personal life from the life of creating characters? Or, I mean, you mix a lot of your personal life into your work, which, you know. Yeah, like because of my friends and things. Well, like, I mean, the dog, crypto, crypto's my dog. You know, like your dad. And, you know, I feel like. Yeah. I mean,

this is where if Jen was here, she'd be shaking. your head over there um but it's like i don't you know i work a lot you know i really don't i don't have much of a personal life you know yeah i don't and um i you know i try to but especially the past few years have been non-stop work you know i wrote this season of peacemaker in eight weeks um because i had to get it done before i started shooting superman and it it was like hellish i was like just grind grind grind grind grind you know do you need the push or would you have been like I would like maybe a little bit longer or was it a little nice motivation like yeah yeah I don't I think I work well under pressure and not under pressure because when I'm writing I'm just in that

space but yeah there I think there was something about the grind that was good because it was it put me in a place where I just had to do it and and so maybe there was new things that came out because of that because I'm really, you know, in every, every episode, I was like, oh, I got that episode done, but now I have to go do the next episode. Oh, my God, this one's, I don't feel inspired at all. I think it's going to be terrible. You know, they're in, I'm in Florida or Hawaii with all my friends. I'm at the hotel writing. And I'm like, it's going to be terrible. And I'm right, right, right. And I'm like, oh, I like, oh, I like that. That was pretty good. That's pretty good. That's pretty good. Oh, but the next

one's going to suck. You know, and I have to go in there and go, and I'm like, oh, are you writing in your head constantly because I feel like I'm just always in my head. I'll be outside and pacing and now I'd be like, who are you talking to right now? And I'm like thinking about like my next episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's I and especially when I'm in the act of writing, I get what I think of his writer's brain, which, you know, like right now I, I, I've taken a break while I've come here to New York with my friends, but I just finished the treatment for the next, you know, piece of the Superman saga. And so, and a treatment for me means that it's, you know, it's 70 pages of like writing with every single, that's a hard part of writing for me is the treatment. Yeah.

The screenplay is fun. But when I'm in that, the space of writing, uh, you know, my dreams are different. I'm waking up. I'm, you know, sometimes I'm waking up and it's really great thoughts and inspired and I'm writing stuff on my phone, but it keeps me up all night. And other times it's just almost like a frustrating like not trying to break something that's not quite working in the script and figure it out from a logical perspective and trying and being stuck in that you know sprocket but it's it's it really is I can't sleep like a normal person when I'm in the act of writing directing I'm actually I used to be just the same way but I'm better now it's a little bit more like a job that I go to so go home go to sleep wake up go work again when I watch

these films that you make, I'm always in awe of things that people do that I don't think I have the capability to do. And so you're not only just writing these films, but you're writing universes in a way. Like these, do you start from like 30,000 foot view of like the universe you're creating? Or do you start with like the character and build the universe around them? Does that make sense? Well, I think, I think, I think character is always the most important part for me. But I am popping back and forth. Okay. So I am like thinking, well, what is the long-term story I'm telling here? What is the story that I'm going to tell about Superman over four movies? What is the story? I'm telling about Peacemaker over, you know, a number of different

media, you know, what is it? What is it that's the long-term story for these characters? And how does that intertwine with the stories of other characters, whether it's Harcourt or Eagley or, you know, Batman, who we haven't even met yet? You know, so what is the big story we're telling here what's the big purpose here so that is always a part of something like the perfect the example that's paid off is rocket and guardians right i always knew what the ending of the story was i always knew it was about rocket accepting himself as a raccoon and coming to realize that he had empathy for every living creature as opposed to just the people around him and himself um it was about going from being a completely selfish, self-involved creature to a hero.

And what was that story? And in a way, it's a trilogy of incredibly expensive movies that are just answering the question, why is he called Rocket Raccoon? And so I always knew that that was the center of the story for me. And so everything was always kind of around that, you know, I always knew, for me, it was rocket was always a protagonist star lord was was you know important but he was always there mostly to serve rocket story the same thing with all the other characters so fascinating so it was it was always that that was the that was the center of the story for me but i also always knew

star lord was going to go home you know that star lord in a way you know in what what was his story his story was a story in which we were telling he ran away from home his mother did died if you look at it as you know you know symbolic or you know allegorical star lord's mother died he left this planet and went out to outer space where he was not really present and over the journey of three films came back home to earth where his grandfather was so it really is about you know and his story is about a guy who is leaving left himself when he was young because of the trauma of his youth and came to little by little accept that trauma, you know, same thing, you know, nebula, same thing. They all have their own stories, you know. I, you know, don't feel like I'm the biggest

comic book fan. And I have to say, peacemaker is so good. It's so entertaining. I mean, Jennifer, your wife is a complete badass. When you're writing for her, are you wanting to kind of, Are you writing to, like, push her out of her comfort zone and challenge her as an actor? Yeah. You are. Yeah, but I also, I'm knowing what she's, I know what she's capable of. Like, you know, Jen wouldn't work with me for, like, three movies. You know, I offered her a role in, you know, in Guardians 2.

Then I offered another role. And then in Suicide Squad, there was this character, tech number two, who eventually became Amelia Harcourt, and I'm like, just come and do this character with me. We had been together by five years or whatever that time. So I was like, just come and do this, this character with me and, you know, we'll play it. We'll have fun on set. And I knew pretty much what she was capable of because I had, you know, done auditions with her and I'd read and stuff like that. But I didn't see her. You know, I saw her act. She was on another. Before you got together? Well, no, when we were together, I was, you know, I would read with her when she's auditioning for

the role. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But also when we, you know, she was on a TV show called Sun Records. right after we started dating but it was like not a heavy acting TV show and so she was a regular on that but so I knew she could act but we just really worked well together and we had fun doing it and so then when I started doing Peacemaker I'm like I think this is you know bringing one of the you know because everything is still like putting on a play with my friends you know and and the fact that I was going to be able to do this TV show and then I could have Steve Agee one of my best friends and Jen along with me and John that was like oh this is going to be fun now

we're going to have this is going to be fun and it has been and then seeing these characters that I fall in love with that are not my friends but are people who I love and then finding like it is kind of pushing them into new territory like in season one

when Steve Agey who's basically a comic has to break down crying when he's talking about his why he dies his beard it's it's like that was pushing steve like he had never done that before and it was so interesting because when we were shooting it once the faucets came on they couldn't go he couldn't turn him off he was like it was really emotional you like just keep rolling keep rolling you know and it was intense but with jen she's a more of a trained actor who's been trained for a long time

and so i know what she's capable of and you know my favorite one of my favorite scenes i've ever ever directed or written is in episode six, which is a very long scene between Jen and John, and it's the best acting, I think, of both of their careers. And I cannot wait for people to see that. That's amazing. And when you guys are hanging out together, being husband and wife, like, I love working with my wife. Like, there is a level, like, I didn't plan on it. We got together after I had this show. I was like, oh my God, you're funny. And I never imagined I would meet someone whose opinion and like Natalie's younger than me and I was just like you know people had all these various opinions but then the more I got to like spend time with Natalie and my wife I just

I was almost surprised how much I valued her take on things yeah she you know I always felt like Natalie knew what my strengths were and never tried to like make me confused about what I was confident in but the things that I knew that she was really good at we we got this kind of like shorthand of how we communicated. But I feel like with work now, she's always that first person I go to when I'm unsure about something or I want to run an idea about her. I just really trust her taste. And I always felt like working together, maybe some couples can't do it as much. But for us, it really helps us stay connected in a sense. And so much about a relationship is making sure like we're being connected. Do you, I'm assuming you enjoy it as much as I do working with your

wife offering her these roles but like is it ever a challenge i and sometimes it's a challenge um uh because of course you know your wife has your wife has a shorthand with you she can speak to you in a way which i'm not accustomed to spoken to on set and i'm like wait a second um you know so uh but uh but yeah no i mean I really enjoy seeing talented people get to shine, you know, whether it's, you know, Foxy Shazam who did the theme song for the new season and, you know, using their music. I mean, they're one of my favorite bands in a world and all the different bands we use in Peacemaker or Steve Agey or Jen or my brother, Sean. I mean, you know, getting to allow people to see people's talent is so fun to me.

And Jen is really helpful. I mean, she's especially helpful at the writing stage. She's really, really, really good script reader and harsh. But I don't, but harsh in a good way. Not like, I don't, I'm not very offended by it. You're like, oh, wow, that was helpful. Thank you. I'm not very sensitive about script notes, you know.

I mean, I think I was when I was young, like I had a girlfriend that would read my stories and, you know, be really harsh with me. And I'm like, getting a big fight. Give me that back. You know, it's different when you're 22. And, you know, it's like, and also I was like, you know more not as confident i guess i mean now it really there is a part of filmmaking which is like it is purely it is purely there's a part of it that's artistic and emotional and you're following

the muse and then there's another part of it that is logical you're fixing problems you're trying to you're creating a machine that needs to work in the right way for an audience and the the balance between those two things is what's important to me is neither one or the other You know, you can't say, oh, it's just all artistry when you're making a, you know, $200 million movie. But you also, I see what happens when you see guys who become bean counters when they're making a movie and those movies are soulless, you know. And I think there's very few people that are making big movies that are doing it with passion. And that's important to me. You know, that's why I love Matt Reeves and Greta Gerwig and Ryan Coogler and, you know,

you know, you know, you know, all these, you know, Denny and a few other people, I think, are really fantastic spectacle film directors. And Peacemaker, too, a big theme is these different dimensions through these portals. Yeah. And something for me, I've always, I've always been fast. I'm not that much of a religious person. I don't believe everything happens for a reason. I believe our choices matter, and I believe in free will.

And when I'm watching the first few episodes of Peacemaker, I would, you know, when when peacemaker goes through these different portals and he sees these alternate universes and not i don't want to give me anything away but it shows how like if people made different choices different outcomes could that's right yes i love um and i love that deeper meaning because i can internally it makes me go down rapid holes in terms of like you know i always tell like my your choices matter you know like you you can you can recover for them you can learn from them if you're willing to but like our choices make a difference is like What was your inspiration for the like coming up with this dimension kind of storyline?

Is that I've always loved the same thing. And it's one of the funny things because people are like, oh, it's another multiverse story. But it's not to me. I love Deadpool. And Deadpool versus Wolverine's hilarious to me. And that's like a bunch of crazy Deadpools from all over the place. And you're seeing all these different things. This is a really a contemplative story about one guy and the things that he's lost that he's never

had. And that's what interested me, you know, with the story. You know, I'm not giving away anything, but it's, it's, it's about, you know, he has an alternate father in another planet. And he's everything he wished his own father was. He's loving. He's kind. And just the moment of, of meeting him and being with him, he realizes what he's never had in his life, you know. Um, and yet, you know, we all don't have things. And so, uh, at a by, has a very different opinion about what he's doing than he does. And as the season goes on, we see more and more, you know, the ways that world has differed from our own world and seems to him like it's

everything that he wanted this world always to be. But is it really, you know? Are there things when you're writing that idea, there are things about your life where you wonder, are there like pivotal moments and when you look back in your life? All the time. All the time. Like, listen, I love. I loved playing music. Like I played in bands. That's what I did when I was young. That's what I wanted to do. And I wasn't the greatest singer in the world. And I wanted to be the best at what I did. And so I started, you know, it was around that time I really started writing. And then it just that took off in a way. Like it didn't seem like when I was playing in bands, it was such a grind and not a grind like working like I'm talking about writing screenplays. but a grind.

Like I'm trying to force success where there wasn't any. I totally right now. And I started writing and then everything just sort of was like a slingshot. Like all of a sudden I'm in this channel that everybody loved what I did. And it was crazy to me how, you know, how it happened. And I found this thing I was really good at. And I still to this day, don't believe in telling people to follow your dream. I think find what you're good at and do that because you're going to be happy having a purposeful

life where you're doing what you're good at. Like that's what's really important. A dream is just that. It's a dream. I don't, you know, it's like maybe you're good at that. But however, my brother, you know, Sean would totally disagree with that. He wanted to be an actor since the time he was young and he's just acted, you know. I think my wife just always wanted to be.

So they've just stayed on that track. But for me, I really was always looking for what I was best at. And that's when writing became direct. I mean, I had already direct, you know, I had played around with directing a lot. So it wasn't like I was a neophyte with that. But like I, it became directing, became storytelling, became, you know, doing D.C. So. But yeah, do I think back sometimes?

What if I kept playing music? I probably would have had, you know, I was a good songwriter. I was a good performer. You know, I've now had, you know, we've had, I've had hits and stuff. stuff that I've written with other people, but it's, uh, but it's not the same thing as playing in bands and I loved it. Yeah, I'm sure you would have been good. I think you're a very talented. I've probably, you have a great work ethic, but to your point, good playing music might not be the head of DC studios, you know, where you've reached a certain level. I was making a living,

but I wasn't, I wasn't, you know, I wasn't, I just wasn't the greatest. Yeah. But what is your go-to karaoke song? I have a couple of them, but if there's Generation Landslide, by Alice Cooper, that's, that's my go-to, yeah. Do you come up with most of your music for all your shows? Because that's always been one of my favorite parts. Maybe it's because... Oh, you mean the song choices? Oh, yeah, 100%.

There's never been anyone who's made any choice for any song and any movie other than me. You know, your movies remind me of my... Like, remind me of Saturday mornings with my dad because I'd wake up and he'd be blasting like the police and like, yeah, just like all these different types. A lot of the stereo, ario speedwagon, things like that, Saturday mornings. We're like, and so listen to this type of music that I always seem to find in your work. And I find it very nostalgic. I love it.

Yeah. I mean, what I like doing is every project has its own vibe, you know. And so, yeah, 70s a.m. pop. That was the vibe of the first Guardians. And then that kind of evolved as we went on, you know, into more 90s space rock for the third one. And with, you know, it's kind of the hair metal, you know, for lack of a better term. sleeves metals, glam metal, for Peacemaker, you know, for Creature Commandos, it was all what's called Gypsy Rock. And so I like having everything kind of has its own vibe. But I'm still

incredibly obsessive about music, constantly listening to and collecting music. Are you thinking of the songs while you're writing? Are you done with the tree? They're all written into the scripts. So every song in Peacemaker was written into the script. And when people get the scripts, when the Cats gets the scripts, they get a playlist on Spotify that's private. That is all the songs so that they can listen to the songs. You've got to be so good at just compartmentalizing. Like, your brain must have so many different files. And it seems like there's just so much organization up there.

Yeah, I am pretty organized, I think. I mean, at least in that respect. But I told somebody last night, I can't remember when we were talking about, but I'm really, I never ever procrastinate with work. but I'm anything to do with my actual life I'm terrible it took me I decided to propose to my wife and it took me four years to actually do it you know it was like you know it was really peak procrastination yeah yeah I decided that I was going to ask Jen to marry me and Chris Prack called me up and he said dude I want to tell you something I haven't told me but I'm

going to ask Catherine to marry me Catherine Schwarzenegger I said dude it's funny you say that because I've just come to an awareness and I'm in the same place and I'm going to ask Jen to marry me. We'd already been together for a while too. And it's three years later, we're on the set of, we're on the set of Guardians 3.

And Chris is married with a child. And he's like, dude, what is going on? And I'm like, dude, I don't know. Yeah, I just think, this thing came, you know, a movie, COVID, like, I don't know. And he's like, I'm going to, you know, go, you know, get you a ring. Stop. This is true. This is totally true.

And he said, I'm going to go. He wasn't going to pay for the ring. Believe me, he's not that good of a friend. And so he and Catherine went out in their ring person and their diamond person. And they're like, you know, FaceTiming me. And they're like, is this the right kind of ring? Is this? And then Catherine is like putting the diamond in front of her finger, but holding her hand a little far away from the camera so that the diamond.

the diamond looks, because her hand is bigger than Jen's and St. Petit. And so, and, uh, and then they, they got me the ring. So how did you propose after four years of thinking about it? I mean, this is, this is, do you want to hear the story? I do. Because it's, it's a little weird. So it's, so, uh, so Jen and I, I told the story last night. So Jen and I are a weird couple. We dated for four months, never once talked about our relationship. And in four months, all of a sudden, one day I was like, I think I'm in love with you.

We never talked about, were we dating other people? Were we not dating other people? What's going on? At first, we both were. And then we kind of just stopped because we were talking all the time. And then all of a sudden, we were boyfriend, girlfriend. And then another whatever seven years goes by. And we never once discussed marriage.

Never once. She never said anything to be able. about marriage. And so all that stuff that I just told you about happened. I went and I got a ring. And it was actually, it was Christmas Eve, I think. I was at my sister's house making cookies with Janet and my mom. And Chris is facetming me with these diamonds. And I go into the other room with my sister. And I'm like, Beth, I show her the ring. I say, is this good? She's like, that beautiful so i'm like okay i'm going to get that ring i'm going to marry me is great and it's going to take like two months to get the ring made or whatever i go home that night we're sitting

out on the we're in a rental house in l.a we're sitting on the porch and sunset hill you know looking out at the beautiful skyline it's beautiful i love my wife we're getting ready to go out to my brothers for new year's eve and she comes over and she sits down beside me and she holds my hand and she says, James, I want to tell you something. And I said, what? And she goes, I would like to marry you something. And I'm like, and inside my head, I'm going, God, damn it. What are you doing to me right now? This is a worst, this is a worst possible time you could, you're going to ruin the surprise. Like, this is terrible. And, and, and, but from her point of view, I was like, uh, oh yeah she watched away being like fuck yeah yeah yeah yeah and then she just like

looks at me she's like what the world is going on and she went vathars are sobbing no i text my sister i say beth what should i do should i should i do should i tell her you know i mean i've got the ring and beth is like i think you need to tell her i don't know what i think you should tell her and i'm like okay i'll tell her so she comes out she's all wiping the tears away and i go i go jen i think it's really important that i you know that i that i tell you something and i need to and then i got another ding on my phone i go ding i look down and it's my sister saying alec my brother-in-law alec says absolutely under no circumstances should you tell her and ruin the surprise i'm totally this is how little how little like look how look how i can control the whole studio

but like I have no control over my own life I just I make no choices for myself my sister and my brother-in-law are making all of them and so I say and then I'm like you know everything's cool everything's cool Jen don't worry about it everything's cool and she's like okay you know we drive we're going like

she's like trying not to cry the whole time we're driving over to my brother's house we go in we sit down at the table with my mom and my mom goes Jimmy when she told me Jerry Jimmy when are you you going to marry Jen? And I'm like, oh my God. What the hell is God doing to me right now?

Anyway, so two years later, we had a house in Aspen. We're walking into it for the first time since we bought it. And I got on my knee and two months. Not two years. Sorry, two months, two months after. Wow. So for those two months, where she like, I think she kind of got over it. There was like a bad week. There was a bad week. And then she forgot. That almost sounds like an amazing, like a, I want to see that you write that into a scene someday. somehow. I just feel like an epic proposal. It sounds too perfect where you're getting all these texts

from friends and you're not sure what to do. She was just when I did propose, she just broke down crying and was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You asshole, you asshole, I thought you didn't want to marry me. I thought you didn't want to marry me. I'm like, I have a funny story. You always have a good poker face to be like, ah.

I didn't really, I have, it was almost the opposite. It was, it was the opposite. I mean, I think if I had a good poker face, I could have come up with a... Yeah, a good, like, yeah. Like, if I had said, oh, my God, that means so much to me, Jen. Or if I had said, you know what, I'd like to marry you someday, too. Like, when would you even thought of...

Everything would have been fine. When the time's right. But instead, I'm like, uh... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I made her feel a weird. What makes your relationship work so well with Jen? Who said it works so well? No, it looks like it works so much.

I'm kidding. I don't know, she's just a really good partner. I think the thing that I didn't... realize about marriage um is that you have a partner yeah and it is romance and sex and love and all of those things need to work friendship conversation conversation partner for life right oh yeah so those things are all really important but it's also important to i think in the past i a lot of times i took in broken birds you know and so i was kind of taking care of everything in a relationship and if anything this relationship is the opposite. Like, Jen, you know, I make most of the money. She makes a lot of money,

actually, but I make most of the money. But she takes, she takes care. I mean, so much of our life is run by Jen. Yeah. And having life is easier because we're in a relationship together. And I have to say most other relationships I was in, I was doing twice as much. I was doing work for two people, you know, emotionally in every way, you know. And it's just not. like that with Jen. She's my totally fully equal partner. I love that you say that because I feel like a lot of times now today people use the word partner because they don't want to say the wrong thing or anything. But like to your point, having a real partner, I love what you said. I feel that same way about Natalie. I said to her last night at dinner, I'm like, I just love that you're, you're always

willing to face whatever challenges come our way. You know, when I'm like, we don't sit there and like, well, you do this or I have to do that. Like you said, with work. We work together, but I'm doing most of the day-to-day decision-making and things like that. But we're just a team, you know? We tackle whatever we have to face together. We, you know, we just divide and conquer. And feeling like you actually have that partner. Yeah. Makes you feel just less alone. Less alone. I've felt alone in relationships. But also makes life easier. Yeah. I mean, life is actually easier. Like I don't have to deal with all my house stuff because Jen deals with it. So, you know, it's like there is, I don't have to deal with everything. I don't have to

deal with all, you know, the stuff with the pets. You know, she takes care of most of the pet stuff, not all, but most of it, except for the time. Ozone tears up all my stuff. No. Well, if you sleep hot, which I do, you got to check out Coop Sleep Goods. Coop Sleep Goods is made for anyone who is tired of waking up sweaty, uncomfortable, or with a stiff neck, because great sleep isn't one size fits all with adjustable fill, cooling materials, and sleep-first design. Coop creates pillows that actually adapt to you so you can fall asleep faster and wake up feeling your best. I was tired on sleeping on crappy pillows. You sleep how many hours in your life and you put your head on it? Why are you sleeping with a pillow that doesn't

keep its form or makes you have neck issues, not with Coop Sleep. No, their pillows are fantastic, top of the line, and they feel like they were made to make you get the best sleep of your life. You know how much I care about good sleep and the rest that I need. Coop's sleep goods are there by my side, really, literally by my side. They're on my neck. That's where I put my face on. Coop's cooling collection is game-changing for those who sleep hot. It's cool on both sides of the pillow, so to speak. You know what I'm saying? 86% of sleepers report better sleep after switching their pillows to coop. That's a lot, 86%.

You also get 100-night sleep trial, so you don't have to take our word for it. Be one of those 86% who redefines how they sleep by getting a better pillow. Also, they have 100,000 5-star reviews, so you know it's good. Add a removed fill from the pillow to create the loft that supports your body's unique,

natural neck, and spinal alignment. Every pillow comes with an extra half-pound bag of 100% freshly manufactured cross-cut memory foam and microfiber. So upgrade your summer sleep or just whenever you sleep. Visit coop sleepgoods.com slash V-I-A-L to get 20% off your first order. That is C-O-O-P-Sleepgoods.com slash V-I-A-L-L. All you cat lovers out there, have you been using Pretty Litter?

Well, if not, why not? That's crazy. Pretty litter helps monitor your cat's health, detecting abnormalities in your cat's urine by testing acidity and alkalinity levels and showing the visible presence of blood. Well, if you are a cat owner, or if you thought about having a cat, you've always known that, like, that litter box is always that something. Do I want that in my house?

Well, with Pretty Litter. Their advanced odor control means that your home smells like a home and not like a litter box. Game-changing for all you cat parents out there. The ultra-absorbit formula uses less material than clay litter, reduces waste, and saving money. Ideal for apartments, busy lifestyles, and multiple cat homes. Best part is that Pretty Litter is convenient.

It ships right to your door. It's non-toxic, pet safe, and household-friendly. Plus, it's low dust controls odor, and it lasts for up to a month. It's great for peace of mind so that you can just enjoy your feline. Right now, save 20% off your first order and get a free cat toy. At pretty litter.com-v-I-A-L-L, it is pretty litter.com slash V-I-A-L to save 20% off your first order and get a free cat toy. Pretty litter.com.com slash V-A-A-L-L-P, Pretty Litter cannot detect every

feline health issue or prevent or diagnose diseases. A diagnosis can only come from a licensed veterinarian. conditions apply see safe details obviously with comic books there is a an intense fan base and you know what I always say I remind myself that fans are short for fanatic when it comes to like you know reality TV has it's an intense fan base I think comic book is even more intense people truly fall in love yeah because in a way you know certain people almost it's almost like their religion yeah for me I try to completely disconnect I'll I'll

tell my team don't read stuff it handcuffs you creatively things like that but you always do have to strike some kind of balance because you it is important to understand how your work so how do you balance that you know relationship with fans because there there are some very personal feelings about characters and cast members and actors and things like that so how do you address that i mean first of all, my heart is pure. You know what I mean? I am trying to do the best I can for these DC characters that I love. I will always make mistakes. Like that's just a part of being a human being. So I'm always doing my best. But when you ask me like what, how do you know that you're dealing with Superman in the right way? It's like because I'm a Superman fan. I've grown up reading his

comic books. I love his comics. Not everyone agrees on what are the most important attributes of of Superman. But I basically think that I know who the character is and what is most important to the character looking at his entire history. And so that's all you can do, really. It's like if I was a guy who had never read a comic book and was doing a Superman movie, I think it would be a different story. You know, I don't read One Piece. You know, if I went out and did, you know, the One Piece show, I think it would be hard for me because I don't understand, you know, what is, you know, the most beloved things about One Piece, you know, I've only read a couple of, you know, comics. So it's, but with D.C. characters, I understand them. Now, I also do change,

you know, somebody like Peacemaker, I also realize I can change a lot about who he is. I've changed to his father was. I changed certain things. And then also some things I kept the same. The Guardians, I changed a lot of things. And so I do feel more freedom with characters that are less well-known, you know. But I really just have to go off my gut. I can't do much more than that. But I listen to people. I listen to go read some comics with John.

Yeah. She does like a DC Comics. You know, she goes through old DC Comics and how they relate to, you know, Easter eggs and the show and all this stuff. And I watch her videos because she's a real fan. and sometimes she teaches me things that I don't know about D.C. characters. I'm like, well, I better be careful about that thing, you know?

And so, because I don't know every D.C. character fully. I really know Batman. I really know Superman. I really know, you know, Teen Titans. When you're taking on these projects like Superman, obviously there's been so many before. How much are you, like, doing your own research and bringing what's already been out there

versus bringing your own life into it. Well, I think for me, really, the fun thing with doing Superman was about creating the version that I loved from the comics. Yeah. And so, you know, people always asked me

with Guardians, what were the most influential comics? And I would be like, well, you know, these, Abnett Lanning and this and that, but really it was much more, the things that were the most influential on the Guardians were other movies

were space fantasy films and, you know, You know, forbidden planet and Star Wars and these other things. With Superman, it's not that. People ask me, what movies are most influenced by? And I'm like, it's not really movies. It's really trying to create a live action comic book. It's all-star Superman.

It's Superman for all seasons. It's all of these, you know, comics that I'm trying to bring to life in a film in a way that hasn't really been done before to create a true comic book movie. Whereas I feel like in The Guardians, I almost was. running from comic book movie like for some reason i'm maybe sure i really loved being called a comic book movie even though that's stupid because it is a comic book movie but with this i really wanted to create a true comic book move is it true that you um saw david in the pearl and thought he'd be a great superman oh totally yeah yeah yeah yeah i saw i saw i saw i saw david in pearl and i was

it wasn't i thought it would be a great superman but he was on my radar and um and i thought oh that guy could be superman it seems like a good actor i didn't have high hopes frankly because he's very serious in Pearl. And our Superman is light on his feet. He's got a good sense of humor. He's a funny guy. It's quirky, yeah. He's quirky.

And so, but as soon as he auditioned, I was like, oh, my God, he's so he's funny. He's charming. It's like, I couldn't believe it. I was really, really shocked. He had to have been, his whole life been told he looked like Clark Kent. You know, like. He, when he got older, people started telling him, you know, he was like Superman. He almost looked more like Clark Kent than Superman.

way. Yeah, yeah. He did because he's a lot skinnier then, too. Yeah. It was interesting hearing you talk about you didn't want Guardians to be like a comic book movie. But it's like when I was watching Superman, it's just like, I think from the open credits, I'm like, this is a, this is a James Gunn movie. I just something about the way you shoot it. But I think what I love most about it, again, I don't know if it's intentional because I just feel like you don't, again, you don't have to be a comic book fan to love your movies. Because I do feel like it can, you know, it can, you next with people it's a drama it's you know it's it's it's a it can be a family show depending on you know peacemaker yeah yeah for adults only but i guess my question is was it intentional as

someone who like you know as a decision maker you do have to worry about the bottom line you do have to worry about you know not just uh attracting you know not just appealing to the die hard fans so like when you're writing it are you hoping to have a project that you know you don't have to know the comic books and you can like you know for me like i'm i've i've i've always been in these types of movies, I want to be able to bring my wife and say, you're going to enjoy this and you're going to have fun. And that's what I love about your movies is I feel like, anytime I recommend it, I don't have to be like, no, you have to watch. Yeah, no, no, I'm really, I'm trying to be real careful about that with telling stories that are relatable by

anyone, you know, and I've had so many, like, grandmas coming up and tell me how much they like Superman. They don't like, they didn't even like the original Superman, but they like, they like, they like, they love, you know, the relationships. They love the people. They love the message of kindness in the movie. That's the thing that speaks to so many people. That's been really cool. And likewise, I'm also trying to be really careful of this is a connected universe with stories that lead to each other, but also every single story needs to be understood by just watching it. I don't want it to feel like homework. That's the thing, because I feel like Marvel has, I feel like they've struggle with that. I mean, I think they've struggled with people feeling like that, whether

that's actually the reality or not, you know, but I, you know, I want people to, they should be able to see Superman and then go see Superman and be okay. I did, you know, listen, Superman comes out on video, on home video today. Yeah. And the reason I let it come out early, because it wasn't going to come out until later, is because of peacemaker, because I wanted to give peacemaker the best chance it could possibly have, I think also people are trying to see how the hype around Peacemaker. So I think everybody's starting to get it at Warner Brothers Discovery. So it's about really

giving Peacemaker the best step forward. But you don't need to have seen Superman to watch Peacemaker. We explain it all for you. It's all there. It's not, there's background and it connects and you're going to have more fun if you watch Superman because there's characters from Superman that are in peacemaker and it's the stories are connected. And then that story is connected to the next Superman. Yeah. So they're all, you know, connected, but it's, but I, I am really aware of making things okay by them.

Yeah, like you said, it, you definitely don't have to watch it to get it. But if you do, you feel like you're, you're in on it. You know, you feel like, like you get it. You're like, oh, that's an extra joke. That's like, it's great. It's gravy. Yeah. It's great. It's good callbacks. Yeah. It's fun callbacks. Yeah. Recently, the internet, it's gone viral a moment when you guys were shooting Superman, a conversation. That's the craziest thing, yeah. Yeah, that's the craziest thing. That was seriously one of my favorite moments ever directing a movie. And I walked off and, you know, I got, David and I both got teary-eyed and David wrote me that night. And then the next day, I said, that was really amazing. I'm like, I knew that we were shooting with our actual cameras at the time.

I'm like, can we get the tape of like that conversation between me and David? because there's the part that isn't viral is that before that moment there was a whole I talk in what we call God Mike and I'm speaking to this God mic and then it's on stage and everybody's listening and it's like when you're on my movies you have to get used to like there's no secrets right like if I'm giving you direction everybody's so so David is out there so David and I are sort of having this you know argument that is you know a healthy argument but he's he's saying what his feelings are yelling up at the sky like he's It's actually talking to God. And then I'm saying, no, no, no, because of this and this and this. And then he finally walked out. And the part when he finally walked out is the part that went viral. But I said to Michael, who said, number there, I said, do we have the tapes? Because we were shooting when he started arguing with me.

He had stopped himself in the middle of the speech and said, he's like, this doesn't feel right. And I'm like, do we have the tapes? And he goes, not only do we have the tapes, Jeremy, who's been my videographer since Guardians One, filmed the entire thing. And I was like, what? And I'm like, this incredibly intimate special moment was all on film. And I couldn't believe it. I had no idea that Jeremy was there until the next day.

And so that's a moment that was captured. I don't know what the question was around that. Well, now that you answer that, now I have more questions. But why did it mean so much to you to want to put that out there? Because I'm watching it. And that's a vulnerable moment between the two of it. I didn't put it out there. They made a mistake.

Oh, okay. But anyway, whatever the case. No, I knew it was in documentary. I watched the documentary and that's out and people can watch that as part of the home video offerings. But what was important to me about it was I learned something. So sometimes David would be frustrating to me because he has so many questions and he's really stubborn. And I love him to death, but he just is always asking questions. Whereas I am used to Chris Pratt and John Sina is my leads who are like, jump off the bridge, you know, how high, how high, never questioned anything. And so that is probably an unfair expectation of actors on my part. But that's what it's been like, you know, even like Sylvester and Stallone and stuff. Like they're always like so it's, they always just kind of go with the flow. And, and David is not like that. He's a million questions. So is Rachel, frankly. They're both a.

bunch of questions. Rachel's much easier than David. But in that moment, David's asking those questions. So what happened was before that, there's this big speech at the end of the movie that David needs to give. And I'm like, if this speech doesn't work, the movie doesn't work. It's the end of the third act. It's like he's explaining who he is and what the importance of Superman is. I'm like, if it doesn't work, the movie's not going to work. And so he comes out and he does the performance. And I'm like, oh, thank God. He did a great. great job. He had it totally down. It was really impassioned. It was really good. But it was quiet. He delivered it quietly. And I said, David, do it again, but just do it more, you know, passionately and

louder. And he said, okay. And he did it again. And he did it the way I wanted. And I'm like, that was better than the way he did it. The other thing, by the way, is that not only did he have to give this speech. It was a complicated shot because we pull back with Superman as he's saying the speech and then I swing over to Lex and Nick needs to give a speech and then we curl around Nick as he comes around and then Nick gets hit and he has to at the exact right time with the camera move and jerk. It's like a one shot. So it's one shot and they all so he had to do the speech perfectly. Nick had, Nick, the unsung hero is, who delivered

his speech perfectly every time. I don't even talk about Nick. So he's the best. I mean, so, you know, Andy, also he had to do this timing thing. So the camera operator Henry and Tim had to do this the same thing at the same time. It was really hard. And so we did again and it was good

but the timing wasn't exactly right. And so I said, do it again like that. And David said, okay. And then he started delivering it and that's when he stopped. He's like, James, but I don't feel it because I had this conversation with my dad and I didn't, you know, don't I, aren't I healed now? Aren't I okay? And then basically, that's when the conversation happened. The gist of which was, yes, logically, you know that you're okay. Logically, you know that you're not a piece of crap like Lex Luther says you are. But it doesn't mean you don't feel it. You're still feeling it. You still feel hurt by that. So your feelings are still there. So just because you know logically one thing doesn't mean you're healed and doesn't mean.

And also, that's okay because you are human and that's what we are. We're going to have our feelings hurt. It's not a weakness to have your feelings hurt. It's just having your feelings hurt. You know, it's not a weakness to be afraid. I just love that part of the movie just because I was thinking about it. And we were just like, when was the last time I saw a superhero say, my feelings are hurt? Yeah.

Or just acknowledge it. You just, that's just not even in like the comic book lexicon, so to speak. And I just love that the way it humanizes the characters. I just, I don't know, maybe that's just why I've always connected with, with movies and work. Thanks. I mean, I think, I think that's true. I love that about him and I love, you know, the compassion towards Lex saying, I know you're something special, Lex. You know, the thing I really hope is that someday you see that you being human, Lex is a superhero.

He's smart enough that he's probably a metahuman in some ways, right? So he's like he wants Lex to be good still. And that's the point of that last shot where Lex is just roiling and so angry and hurt and he looks up at Superman and you know Lex isn't done in that moment. And then this is all spoiler stuff I guess. And then Lex and then Superman looks back and he feels sorry for Lex because he's in hell. And Superman can see that. So how can he really hate this guy who's in hell? How do you strike the balance of like when you have an actor like David being like,

hey, I feel like I should deliver it this way, but you know how you wrote it. How do you strike the balance of like- Well, let me say something about David. That's important because I make jokes about David all the time, but I love him. And the thing I learned on that day was that his way was great. My way was better. but when he understood where I was coming from it was even better and so David taught me something that day and that's the that's the important part of that's why I love the moment so much and why I

was so moved by the whole thing but also the other thing I will say about David is David will shut up when I tell him to shut up so occasionally he'll have a bunch of questions and I'll be like David and he's like okay I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry I know I'm irritated and then he goes and he does it whatever I want. So he has a moment in which he'll just go for what I ask him to do. It's not like he just will fight until the end of time for something with another director he might. But with me, he doesn't, you know. And so he knows at the end of the day that I see the big picture and he doesn't.

You know, he knows that. So he's just taking care of his performance and taking care of the movie the best he can. And I completely appreciate it. He is a great collaborator. How much do you allow the actors to pick your brain on these characters to, like, get the most out of what you've written? As much as they need to. I mean, you know, it's like there's, you know, I mean, they always think they're irritating me, but they aren't, you know, because Gabby and Sarah, you know, Eve and the engineer, they're always, they're writing me quite as I'm like, we don't want to bother you. I'm like, you're not bothered.

I love these characters. I want to talk about them all the time. Well, it seems like it was the way you described it, I feel like that's something I would do because it's like, it sounds like it's part of. David's process because if he doesn't understand what you're trying to get across, it sounds like he can't perform it, right? And maybe other actors can just act it out regardless, just read it. And he's just like, I need to feel it or relate to that feeling. And there will be times when I will say to David, you don't need to understand it.

Just go do what I'm saying. And he'll do that at the end of the day. But, you know, along the ride, he's trying to take care of everything the best he can. And the movie's better for him. I mean, the dude is a movie star. Like, you know, he is a movie star. And so whatever he's doing is working spectacularly well. I think he's an incredible human being, an incredible guy, and I make fun of him all the

time for being irritating. And I feel a little bad about it because he's a great guy. Yeah, but he is irritated. Going back a little bit in your iconic career that you've had. Iconic, yeah, legendary. It's pretty good. Pretty good. With Scooby-Doo, did you, with Scooby-Doo, did you watch, like, all, you know, every episode, you're a huge fan growing up.

Okay. And then I went back and re-watched all the cartoons and stuff. Before you wrote the movies. Before I wrote the movies. Do you remember what your notes were like for the movies? They were nightmarish. Were they? It was a nightmare.

It was a nightmare. On the first movie, it was a nightmare. The second movie, there was nothing. The second movie was fine. But the first movie was a nightmare. I mean, people know. the first, our first rating was rated R. Yeah.

And it was about something stupid. It was not an R rated movie. And we just had to cut that one thing. And then it was PG-13. But we had written, you know, and directed with Raja, a movie that was for teenagers, basically. That was a little bit more like Austin Powers. It was more risque. Yeah.

And they decided that this is a movie, just completely family, four children, and everything had to be adjusted to be for kids. Now, some of it they couldn't get around. But a lot of stuff was like the girl's cleavage was CGIed in, you know, because they thought it was too risque. Because, you know, one person in a test audience in Sacramento is like, why are their dresses so low cut? A lot of boobs. And so, yeah, so both Linda's and Sarah's cleavage was was Cgi-Ied in. Well, speaking of rated art, obviously, Peacemaker is more for the adults. There's obviously swearing. There's the orgy.

Violence. There's a little bit of an orgy. Orgy rating in the first episode. I saw a promo with you and John saying, you can say fuck in this video. Do you find that that gives you a certain level of creative freedom, you know, especially with these universe as being connected, that if you watch Peacemaker, does it allow you to, you know just make it a little bit more real just a little bit more like hey we can kind of get into some like messiness or you know some darkness yeah but you can't with like a superman for sure

I mean peacemaker was always more you know grounded it was always more like cinema verita in the way we shot it in every aspect of it you know um even though the things he's fighting against are these magical monstrous things so yeah I mean but I for me it's like uh making a film or a TV is communication. I'm sitting here and I'm talking to you and I'm not saying exactly the same things I would say if I went on Tom Segura's podcast because I know the audience is different, you know? I'm not saying the same things I would say if I went on a children's show, you know, I'm not speaking to kids. You and I have known each other for a while. So we talk in a different way than I would talk to somebody I'd never met before. It's like you're always

speaking to an audience. And I think every story is like that too. So, peacemakers for a specific audience it's this sort of balls out no rules and no rules in every way I mean so it just it's just a different vibe to it is a different type of artistic story where Superman is another thing it is made for everyone but also that's part of the vibe is like this good natured colorful like that is part of what it is and it isn't about you know we had some darker things in Superman that I cut out because it just didn't feel like it fit into the vibe of the story. Now, not, we didn't have an orgy. There wasn't a bunch of penises there.

But, yeah, I mean, they're all, every story is different. You're speaking to a different audience. And when you speak to kids and families, you know, you're speaking a different language than when you're speaking to adults and, you know, when you have a night out with the boys, you're speaking differently than when you speak with your. go out on a date night. Can you peel back the curtain on the orgy scene? How awkward is it?

Do you have music blasting? Is it like everyone just vibe out and like don't even think about cameras? Yeah. So that song is Hardcore Superstars guest list. And that song we blasted the whole time. But there is something that many directors have complained about called an intimacy coordinator. Do you know what an intimacy coordinator does?

Yes, I heard about intimacy coordinator. So an intimacy coordinator for those people who don't know is somebody who comes on set when you're doing a scene that requires from some intimacy, anything from like just somebody doing nudity to somebody, you know, having to kiss somebody to somebody doing simulated sex on screen. They talk to the people and the actors involved, make sure they're comfortable and aware of what is happening. This is something some old school guys have complained about. to me, it's the greatest thing in the 20th century to come out of movies. Really?

Because you can do anything you want. So these people were hilarious. I mean, these guys all got paid more money to come in. They're specials, you know, I forget what the actual term is, but it's like, you know, if you cast a background extra who's playing a saxophone, they get paid more than a regular background actor. Well, if you show your penis, it's also a special talent. Yes. Yes. So they come in and I don't have to worry about anything because I used to be sort of uncomfortable. I don't love to direct, you know, telling people to, you know, to have sex and

okay, now grab their butt or, you know, whatever you're telling. I'm like, oh, it's just so, you know, it's such a weird conversation to have when you're not even totally sure people are comfortable. And so she went out, our intimacy coordinator on that day was fantastic. And she went out. And she went out, and she's like, what do you want to do? I'm like, well, some of the things that you see. Yeah. And, you know, I want him to dance like, I did that dance. That guy does.

And, and, and she's like, got it. Great. And she's all excited. And she goes in and she tells them, she's like, are you sure you're comfortable with this? And blah, blah, this is what we want to do. And then they really go for it. And so it's a really, it's a great, it's a great thing.

And I'm so grateful for this. those people. Now, sometimes they're weird. Like, they're not always the best. Just like nobody at their job is always the best. Right. But especially the woman on the house. How did you describe the threesome with the woman on top just bouncing? So that was like, so John's sitting in this chair and then we had him on this lazy Susan basically. We had a dual lady, like, so the grips, long before this, you know, I'm like, okay, so I went to the grips and I'm like, this is like two weeks before this. I'm like, okay, I want to do this orgy scene. And in any orgy scene, I want John in the middle on a chair and his lazy Susan's going

to go in one direction. And then I want a circle around that with people having sex. And that's going to go in a different direction. And then we're going to go around that circle in an opposite direction so that we have this sort of, you know, crazy, daisy wheel of sex. And so the grips were so excited about that because they love it. doing creative stuff and so they created this thing and they were excited to show it to me I'm barely fit in that house but uh yeah and so then yeah I would say you know we want this

this these two guys are having sex and this is a threesome and this guy's gonna be masterfeeding this is like we just coming on what can the next person do I don't know it's like you know how crazy can we get so some of it was them coming up with stuff and some of it was me saying well could they do this instead, you know. And it's just, you know, it's just, it's a collaboration like everything. And those people were amazing. It takes, it takes a while because one of the things that you have to do is in between takes, they immediately put them, their clothes back on.

So you do the scene. And I think in the old days, we all just, everybody would just been making all day. But now there's like, you know, people are, you know, more attentive to people's feelings in the situation. And so in between takes, it's not a gawk-all. It's like everybody gets, the people run out with the robes and giving them a robes and they put on their robes and that's that. And it's a closed set. You know, it's not, it's just the necessary people in the tent watching. And, you know, I don't think I was ever even on set when people were, were naked really. I was always all, you know, just there's a little tent outside the house. How do you feel about improv, or improving certain

scenes. Obviously, writing it and directing it, I'm sure every word, every line's very intentional. But are there ever moments where you allow your actors to play around and try some stuff out? Sometimes they say things in a little bit of a loose way. Sometimes it really frustrates me, frankly, because sometimes they say things in a loose way. And on the day, you know, Michael will come up and say they're not saying exactly the line that you had written. And I'm like, I think it's okay. And I let it go. And then we get to the cutting stage. And I'm like, I think that's why I wrote about it. Oh, man, the reason I had them say that line that way is because of this, you know, this thing and they said it minorly different, you know, and it really, so I don't love it, but there are times, first of all, the biggest improviser on set is me.

So I am always, you know, the joke of the peacemaker gang have, and actually every person, Dave Batis always jokes about everybody, because I start giving them extra lines to say, but it's always extras to what the, script is usually or alternate funny things and I can't stop laughing when I'm on the godmike because I'm thinking of it as I'm saying it and I'm trying to get out what I'm saying and then of course then they all start laughing and they don't even know what I'm going to say it's just me giggling like a ninkabooop in the corner and so I improvise the most but also you know John improvise John will come in with like lists of things he's going to do but it's always an addition it isn't like it's not changing the dialogue it's also. It's an also. Yeah. Are there any actors out there that you haven't had a chance to work with

that would be something you've thought about or you said, I would love it, a chance to work with this particular person? I mean, I would love to work with, you know, all sorts of people. Yeah, Meryl Streep, I would love to work with. You know, she's like, she just once sent word that she would love to work with me. And I'm like, oh, that would be incredible. I love Merrill Street. You know, he's one of the greatest actors ever. There's a million actors I'd love to work with. Okay. And quite a few I would never work with. I won't ask you who those are. I'll tell you after.

Yeah. There's a long list. I want to know. It's a long list. We were going through like last night. My buddy is putting together a movie. And he has a list of male actors that are in that range of doing lower budget movies, so well-known. But not, you know, it's not Tom Cruise or The Rock.

It's like people who are in this middle range. And we're going through it. And I'm saying, kill that one, kill that one, kill that one. kill that one. It's about 20%. But is that coming from people that you've just seen work or that you've worked with personally or that like- It's almost all people that I know many people who have worked with him, not just one who say they're giant pains. Okay. So yeah, what's the why behind you might feel that way? I have a no-a-hole policy. Okay. If somebody's an a-hole, the only exception is Frank Grillo. I'll work with him forever. But other than Frank Grillo, Frank Grillo is the only a-hole I work with.

And when you say, Aho, is that more like kind of diva quality where it's just more they make? Yes. If they're mean to crew members, boom, they're out. If they want to change everything, they're out. If they're just pains in the asses, they're out. I mean, it's just, but mostly it's if they're mean. If they're mean, I just don't want to have to deal with it. Life is too short.

I'd rather have an actor who's not as good. But also, but a lot of times, but also, there's a lot of guys that are, that are on this list, who are people that cost the production millions of dollars because of being late every day. So that's another thing. If you're late every day, you can't deal with me, man. I mean, I do 10 hour a day as we're done. Like, I don't sit around. I'm out of 14, 16 hour. I mean, once a movie, we go, you know, longer, you know, twice a movie. But mostly I stay to my schedule and I'm always under budget. And that's important to me. And it's important to me, and my crew, who I work with repeatedly, that they get to go home and see their kids and have

their family lives and that they can get done with the filming of the show in a reasonable amount of time. And so if you're going to be showing up three hours late, I mean, screw, you're a jerk. So I just don't want to work with you. You seem just like such a very loyal guy. I mean, it's like you've brought all of these people who've been with you for years or friends of yours for years. You brought everyone up with you. Is that something that you just always wanted to do? Yeah, I mean, I actually think I'm loyal to a fault. I actually am trying to, this is a weird thing to say.

I'm trying to be a little less loyal. And what I mean by that is I work with the same people. I've had the same agent and manager and lawyer since 1998. Wow. Most everyone I've worked with, I've worked with again and again. And I have a really hard time saying, okay well maybe just this movie I want to do it with a different

I'll say production designer because my production designer isn't changing it's Beth Michael but like maybe I want to do this movie with a different production design even though I love Beth maybe I want to do this movie with a different production designer to give it a different look and I can never bring myself to do that I have to be able to

do that it's really I never want to hurt anybody's feelings because I love these people but it's I also care about the movies so it's it's It must be a challenge because on the flip side, the good part of the loyalty is like you have your wife, but like you've created this community. You've provide for your friends in a way. Not that, you know, I'm sure they'd be fine, I guess, in some ways without you. But like there must give, that must give you a sense of pride and meaning behind what you do. I don't know. Like for me, just taking care of my family. I love my job. I love what we do. I love what I've created. But the purpose behind it is all. to me about my community, my family, like my people. And I don't know, to me, the why behind why you have that loyalty,

I'm sure must be that gives you that sense of purpose. Well, I, you know, maybe, I think that is, that's part of it. But I just, I like, you know, this is my life. I mean, I'm working all the time. And so when I walk on set in Atlanta with my crew, that's my family. And it's like, I want, they've known me. They've all worked with me numerous times, you know, people love working on my sets. Nobody thinks I'm easy, by the way. This is not to say that I'm not that I'm easy. I'm

hard. I'm just telling you. I'm tough. And everyone knows that. But I'm never me. I just am tough because I expect the best and I and I'm really blunt with people. And if something isn't working, I absolutely just tell them. And you just, I'm assuming that's because you just, you know what they're capable of or what you want or what you want. I mean, it's what I want. I'm trying to make the movie that I want to make. And if it's not going my way, I'm not that happy. And so I can be tough. And if somebody's not pulling their weight, then I do fire them. Like, they're gone. And so it's not like I'm loyal, like, you know, like a maniac. It's just I think that I can probably change things up a little more in some ways. Open phone is a smart modern phone system built for entrepreneurs,

small business owners, and growing teams who can't afford to miss a call or customer connection. If you're running a business, every miss call is money left on the table. Think about the last time you had a plumbing emergency. If the first plumber didn't answer, did you? Wait or did you call the next one on your list? Chances are you moved on, call the next person on the list. And with open phone, you'll never miss an opportunity to connect with your customers. Open phone is the number one business phone system that streamlines and scales with your customer communication. It works through an app on your phone or computer, so no more carrying two phones or using a landline. With open phone, your team can

share one number and collaborate on customer calls and text like a shared inbox. That way any teammate can pick up right where the last person left off, keeping response times faster than ever. Plus, they give by to voicemail. Their AI agent can be set up in minutes to handle calls after hours, answer questions, and capture leads, so you never miss a customer. So whether you're a one-person operation drowning in calls and texts or have a large team that needs better collaboration tools, open phone is a no-brainer. OpenFone is offering our listeners 20% off your first six months at openphone.com slash V-I-A-L. that's openphone.com slash v iall and if you have existing numbers with another service open fun will port them over at no extra charge open phone no miss calls no miss customers well our lives are busy

they're all over the place and if you are dog parents you want to make your life and your dog's life easy and convenient and that's where chewy comes in with over 100,000 products from top pet brands chewy makes it easy to find everything from food and treats to beds and toys all delivered to your in one to two days. They also carry supplies for birds, fish, reptiles, and other small pets. To support your pets' health, they offer prescription medications, telehealth vet visits, which is essential for us, pet insurance, and are expanding in-person vet clinics across the country. The telehealth pet visits have been crucial for us.

I mean, you know, if you have dogs, you know that every once in a while they get into something they shouldn't, and sometimes it can be a little scary, it can be a little late at night. It's always nice to consult with someone who knows. Do we need to go to a pet hospital? Are they okay? Can they eat that? Can they not eat that? And the telehealth is really, really great. Also, so many great toy options for your dogs. And you know your dogs that are very particular about the toys that they want. And Chewy has a great selection. Also, as temperature rise, so does the risk of fleas and ticks and even for indoor pets. These pests can spread through other animals, visits to the groomer or vet and even hitch a ride on humans. Chewy carries a wide range of vet recommended flea and tick medications to help protect your pet year around. Up at the lake, obviously, ticks are prevalent. And we got Jeff, instead. Steve's tick medication from Chewy made it super easy and convenient. Customer support is available 24-7 by the phone or chat with expert advice always on hand.

Chewy has everything you need to keep your pet happy and healthy, and right now you can save $20 off your first order and get free shipping by going to chewy.com slash V-I-A-L. That is Chewy.com slash V-I-A-L to save $20 on your first order. With free shipping, shooey.com slash V-I-A-L minimum purchase required. New customers only is terms and conditions apply a seat site for complete details. before we let you go i i do have to ask since my audience loves reality tv i know we haven't talked about reality tv at all what what are you guys watching you and jen these days okay let me let me be clear it's not what we're watching because jen only watches half the amount of reality tv so what we do is we we you know i work all day like now when i'm writing right i work all day

then Jen and I eat and then we go downstairs we watch a TV show or two then she goes to sleep and then I smoke a cigar and continue watching reality TV and so I watch a bunch of shows

that she doesn't watch like Love Island like Jen doesn't watch Love Island but I watch every Love Island you watch them all watch them all now I'm not done with I think I got spoiled

on who wins UK I'm done with the US I'm most away through UK and I think I know who it's but and I think it's I'm pretty happy about that together though we watch Big Brother okay so we're watching Big Brother now we're frustrated with Rachel I've become online friends with Taylor you know Taylor who won a couple of seasons ago and I told her I was going on your show and she said uh because she wants me to go on the Big Brother thing and I'm like uh I'm like yeah but I'm going to go with Nick and talk about reality TV and she goes oh Nick Nick can't she's we got

talk deep. We got to talk deep. She reminds me of you actually in your season because you were unjustly picked on in the first season of The Bachelor I felt like, like just totally unjustly picked on. And she was the same way on her season of Big Brother in a much more mean way even. And they were just picking on her all the time. And then she won. It was awesome. Because I'm also very blunt too, where I just like, I can't help but just say what I think or feel at the risk of I think her strength is not immediately aware. I think she comes off first as a pretty girl and they didn't know how strong she was.

And they just thought she was because she's quieter than most of the people on the show. And they just built, they kind of picked on her and bullied her. I felt like. And then she showed them all. Have you pulled any inspiration for any characters from reality TV? I mean, if you love it so much, is there any. part of you that's like, I want to bring some of this into the comic book world or into anything you're creating?

Not that I'm conscious of that I can think of, but, you know, listen, I always, you know, I don't, like, when people say you watch reality TV and this, people are going to laugh at me because Love Island is really, it is a lot like this. I don't watch the Kardashians. I don't like any story stuff. Right. I like things where people are competing. Experiments.

They like experiments when you're messing with people. So I like, you know, the traitors. I like, you know, I don't like Bachelor as much since Alon left. I wish Alon was still there. I don't think it's as good, you know, as good as. It's not as funny. It's not as funny or fun. It's like.

And it's too formulaic now. It's, they've just kind of gotten back to they're not taking. I don't feel like the risks that he took that worked. I hate to say that as a long time member of Bachelor Nation. I give it up. I don't like it as much. As a member of Bachelor Nation, I feel the same. Yeah.

Yeah, so I really miss Alon. But yeah, so I like, I love Survivor. Survivor's like my all-time favorite reality show. But Love Island's just the guiltiest of all pleasures because, you know, it doesn't take much of work. It's like, you know, you could miss big pieces of it. If I'm on the phone or go to the bathroom or check my email or something. What's your Love Island season seven hot take or what was your overall sentiment?

For U.S., U.S. This is how much this stuff goes. threw me like coffee and just as out the other end because I'm trying to even remember a single, like name one person from from Love Island USA. I just got done watching a month ago or something. Huda. Oh yeah, Hutt. I hate, oh, I don't want to say that because I feel sorry for that girl, but how did she last

so long? Producers, I feel like. I mean, who knows? I don't, I feel like Nicolandria. Mm-hmm. Do we think that's a real thing? I don't, they're still dating. right? They are still dating. The challenge with that world, though, they look great together.

I was huge fans of them individually. I felt zero chemistry. Now, it doesn't mean that I can feel chemistry. Yeah, who knows? Because like the problem, as we've talked, we've talked about on the show, is I didn't like because the show is filmed in real time. The production has the opportunity to read comments and kind of see the discourse. And I feel like a lot of fans felt like it was in overproduce in that regard, that kind of forced, it felt like a forced date in the middle of the season

between Nick and O'Landria. It wasn't as good at, I mean, the previous season of Love Island USA was maybe the top tier. Top tier. Oh, maybe the best season of any Love Island ever.

Crazy. Yeah. And then this season was a little bit of a letdown after that. Oh, there's a lot of good stuff. My one hot take is the relationship that seemed the most real to me throughout the whole season

was the cow boy guy. Taylor. Taylor. And that girl, Clark, who was Clark, who was totally nice. And they really seem to like each other in a completely real way. And then all of a sudden he's at the bottom of everything. There is some also. I often notice that I'm on the outsun love island whenever they do the, because I'm a guy watching the show. So I like the guys more than the audience does. The women are constantly reinforcing these angry attitudes towards each other. And so are the guys, obviously. And I wish that there was, I just, I'm always looking for one guy or one girl who is going to say,

you know, maybe you should see it from the other person's point of view for a second. Maybe you should think about this. And it's very rare that that happens. I think the challenge back to your questioning which relationships are authentic, I don't think you can really know for like at least 12 months because just the opportunity that it's available for these cast members and any of these relationships, they're the pressure to stay together. Even when I was in that type of relationship, you're very confused about your real feelings

because of audiences pressure and things like that. And you already know that like people are telling you to give it time and you have to get to know people. So you just don't even really know what's real and what's not. I just remember even, you know, when filming, you know, my first season, and I've told this story before, I knew I was competitive. I knew I felt something authentic to this person. Yeah. But I didn't know what's feeling was stronger. My competitive nature of wanting to win versus like, well, I know I feel something strongly, but is it, well, I feel, you don't, you don't even know. I remember, you know, Sean from the bachelor yeah we were talking once because he's had a very successful relationship right they're still

together i hope still together very successful relationship and i was talking to him about that and i said what's what's the deal with that and he said uh basically just got to forget everything that happened on the show truly and pretend like you're starting square one yeah and maybe it's going to work out maybe it's not but you got to treat that person like you're just starting at square one and i'm like god that's that's true because the bachelor much more so than love island is a fake situation and you know It is an evolutionary thing that when you have a bunch of men or a bunch of women with one person, you're going to be attracted to that person in a way that you wouldn't be if it was an island full of people with different people.

And so it just evolution forces you to feel feelings for that person, not everybody, but a lot of people. And they suddenly are the most attractive person they've ever seen because of the way the situation is set up. And that has nothing to do with what real life is like. So with Love Island, at least, it is like, it's different people who are vying for the guys. And so the chances of lasting in some ways is better, but also they're often a more crazy group. Well, only in Bachelor world, do you tell the person if you end up with them, I only made out with them in the fantasy suite and expect a pat on your back versus, you know, things like. Those are just like weird conversations where you're. And why is it that there's more, you know, as many success.

relationships out of Big Brother and Survivor is there are out of Bachelor. I mean, they're pretty commensurate, and it's like the Survivor is not a, you know. Do you think in, I think they're maybe 17, but Boston Rob and Amber's daughters are almost 18. Do you think we'll see the Boston Rob and Amber. Well, let me first of all. Love Child on Survivor. Well, I would root for them because I am an absolute Boston Rob super fan. Like, Boston Rob is besides Nick, after Nick.

Yes, thank you. Thank you. My favorite reality show contestant of all time. And I will watch any reality show that Boston Rob is on. So he's on the traders I watch at Deal or Don't No Deal Island. I will watch that, which by the way is a great reality show. I will, well, especially because I won like $16,000. How much did he win?

He won like $8 million? Crazy. Yeah. I was like, I was just looking at like, I was watching it like a producer where he got up to so much money that I was like, oh my God, they got to be killing yourself. They got to pull out. Yeah. They're going to be dying right now. The movie that shows budget just went up probably by $6 million more than what they anticipated. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, love us. I don't know anything about his daughters. Okay. Okay. Would you do any, would you out of Big Brother, Survivor, Traders, any of those kind of competition shows? Would you do any? Okay. I would not, but I would love to do traitors.

Okay. Because I played Mafia for many years. Yes. And I was very, I was good at mafia. Okay. There was a time when it was really popular in L.A., and I was playing like three or four times a week from people's homes. So would you want to be a traitor or would you want to be a faithful?

Trader. Yeah. It would be fun to hunt the traders, though. And I feel like, I think I can hunt the traders. I feel like I'd be good at. I know, but the problem with the trade, and this is the flaw, there's a couple flaws with the traitors. The flaw with the traders is it doesn't serve you to hunt the traitors. If you get the... You don't want to tell anyone to hunt. You have to find out

who they are and then suck up to them and then suck up to them. And then pretend like you like them until the end. That's the game. And so that's not a great game when you think about it. It's much more fun if there was more, if there was more value to hunting the traitors. I would be worried. I have a hard time lying. I feel like I have a bad poker phase. Yeah. I just don't think of it as lying. You know, I do not, I don't think of it as lying. But who knows? I'm used to playing Mafia for, you know, a couple hours at a time, not for week.

Four months? I don't think it's a week. I don't think it's a month. Really? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. I was supposed to do it season three, but it had to pass. You didn't do it? No, season four. I like how you're whispering on the podcast. I know. Yeah. But I would love for you to do it.

Someday, I think I will. Well, I was going to do it. And then now that I got hired to host a new show for Netflix that we're doing. Oh, well, that's what's that? Oh, cool. Dating show around age gaps. Oh, wow. Wow.

Hopefully. Yeah. Maybe that'll be your new. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be your new cigar show. I wouldn't say it's a guy, it's more, are you a love is blind fan? Off and on.

Okay. I like, yeah, I like love is blind. It's weird because I'm not sure it doesn't get worse as the season goes on. But I like it. I do like it. You know, I loved like certain. seasons like of other countries like i love the japanese love is blind because it's so tame and weird compared to ours but also more interesting devil's plan you've watched that one the korean

show on netflix that's a that's a great it's a really it's all these these people who are kind of well-known people in korea and they come into this game show and they have these incredibly complicated difficult uh games that they play you know and get eliminated and it's it's like the it's the really smart person's reality show it's it's really fun yeah you i remember like now that we're sitting here like having my back when i was in on bachelor and paradise it meant a lot at the time because not a lot of people at the time had my back but i felt like i felt like people started to understand just me or and i feel like you you gave them permission when you like you came on after paradise and you were kind of giving your commentary oh yeah yeah

Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, I was like, finally, someone gets me. That's when I told Ashley, I told Ashley she was crazy. And I'm not, Jared really likes me. And I'm like, you're crazy. He doesn't like you. And now they're married. And I know, I know those guys, you know, I know Jared and Jared was like,

he came by the set of a peacemaker. Oh, did he? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's got a little cameo. That's a reveal here. But like, yeah, he's in the show. Yeah. he didn't tell me that.

He does keep a secret. He does keep a secret. There you go. That's incredible. Well, I will stand by because I've famously told Ashley, you'll never be with him only for them to be together. And Jared was living with me at the time when they were secretly dating and he wouldn't tell me.

Oh, my gosh. But he, I still think we were right in a sense that like she, she had to accept they would never be together. And it wasn't until she said, screw this. guy before Jared had to like wake up and kind of realize what was in front of his face. It's similar to like Natalie and me when we were dating for nine months. And I was like, I don't know. I don't know if I could do this. I don't know. I'm like, you're younger than me. I'm so self-conscious. And she's like, fuck this guy. And then I was like, please. I'm so sorry.

So yeah, sometimes you have to. I think you're sometimes blind, you know, with what's right in front of you sometimes. Yeah, but also we were wrong. Yeah, y'all were wrong. At the end the day, y'all were wrong. We were wrong. We were wrong. Ashley was right. She's a more wise than all of us put together. She's a, she's going to be a housewife. What? She's going to be a housewife. Oh my God. Her housewives of Rhode Island. Oh, really? That she's been. Oh, my God. Yeah. Which I'm very. But see, those are the shows I don't watch because they're not, there's no, you can't win any money. Yeah, that's true. I like things where you can win money or where they make you, you know, wear pig suits or, you know, stuff where I like, I don't know. milk. I don't like just watching people be crazy living life. You'll have to dabble into the

Rural Housewives of Rhode Island maybe. Only because I like Ashley now. James, this has been so much fun, man. I appreciate you coming on. I'm excited for people to watch Peacemaker. It comes out August 21st. So today is August 21st. It is out today. Comes out tomorrow. For anyone listening, it comes out tomorrow. It's on HBO Max. Do they call HBO Max now? It's a HBO Max. I have two different apps now that say HBO Max because they keep changing. It is. It will. I think it will remain HBO Max. I don't think they're going to change the name again. Well, it's out now. It's incredible guys. Watch it. Obviously, if you're a comic book fan, you'll love it. If you're not a comic book fan, you'll love it. For the ladies out there, I promise you, if your man is interested in it, you should sit down and watch it with them. It's fun. It's funny. It's entertaining. I'm such a huge fan of that franchise. eyes. So I just want to thank you for coming on, man. It's been fun talking with you. And yeah, just to catch up with me. I'm glad we finally got to do this. After only a thousand episodes, almost a thousand episodes. I'm glad it was now. Yeah. Yeah, I've always, like when I started

the show, I've kind of like you, it's just, I've got to said, I always had this kind of delusional belief in myself, even though sometimes when I get to a certain spot, I will have for a moment that kind of imposter syndrome where I'll be like, wait, I'm at, when I'm, am I doing here? Maybe I do suck. But yeah, I always felt like I was, you know, like you, I'm self-aware enough to that when I started my project, I have to earn the ability to like have the right to like have certain conversations and certain people. But anyways, it's, it's been great to, even though I've known you for a while, to be able to have this conversation with you on my show. And I appreciate it coming on, man. And it's been a lot of fun. Good. Thank you guys.

Yay. Thank you guys for listening. We'll see you tomorrow. Up Up Uh