The Viall Files - E988 Ask Nick - I Regret Moving For Love

Episode Date: August 25, 2025

Our first caller’s best friend’s relationship is making her ill. Our second caller regrets moving for love. And, our third caller is wondering if he hates texting, or hates her?   “There’s a difference between being vulnerable and putting yourself out there, and not chasing."   Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff every Monday. Available wherever you get your podcasts and YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 https://open.spotify.com/show/4NWA8LBk15l2u5tNQqDcOO?si=c03a23d537f94735 Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  We’ve partnered with Mint Mobile to open a hot takes hotline to hear your scorching hot opinions! Give us your hot takes, thoughts and theories and we’ll read and react to the best ones on an upcoming Reality Recap episode! All you have to do is call 1-855-MINT-TLK or, if you prefer the numbers, that’s 855-646-8855 and leave us a message. To Order Nick’s Book Go To: https://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice, send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line!  To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles    THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Mint Mobile - Get 3-months of Unlimited premium wireless service for 15 bucks a month at https://mintmobile.com/viall  Article - Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim, visit https://article.com/viall and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout BetterHelp - Talk it out, with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at https://betterhelp.com/viall  Caraway - You can shop Caraway Risk-Free! Enjoy fast, free shipping, easy returns, and a 30-day trial. Plus, if you visit https://carawayhome.com/viallfiles you can take an additional 10% off your next purchase. SKIMS - Shop Natalie’s favorite bras and underwear at https://SKIMS.com    Timestamps: (02:05) - Intro (02:18) - Caller One (52:51) - Caller Two (01:12:18) - Caller Three   Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @justinkaphillips @the_mare_bare @dereklanerussell

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insomnia yeah she's like looking pretty ill is she does she associate her um anxiety and panic attacks to her relationship or or is that something you and the rest of So the friends are doing. I think a bit of both. I think she knows that it's one of the big triggers for her. But I think that she would say it more as like the anxiety is like playing a role in her relationship versus it's the relationship that's causing the anxiety. What else does she think is causing her anxiety?

Probably just work, life, stress, all of that. Tell me about this relationship that she's in. Actually, also since I wrote in, they did bring. break up. Oh, they did. Okay. But, well, no, no, it's not good yet. They're still seeing each other all the time. I can see on five my friends. Like, she's over there a lot. Okay. Who brought, who entered the relationship? Him, sort of. I think he was like, this is not healthy. I don't think I want the same things as you. And then since they broke up, we were like, great, kind of a clean break. I think she was probably never going to do it. But now he's like,

oh, maybe I do want the same things. We just need to be in a better place. And, yeah a lot of that do you think they're a bad match or do you think he's a bad guy or both I think he's probably not a bad person like I think he's just not really it's his first relationship and I think he's probably not ready for a relationship um but I also think they're a terrible match I think their communication styles are really different she's an anxious person he's very much like I don't want to talk about it she wants to plan everything he's like that makes me nervous. Yeah, it's a bit of both. Okay. What can I help you with? I don't really know what to do about it. And I've been getting, it's affecting me way

too much. I don't know why I care so much about it. Why is it affecting you so much? Like, who is this friend to you, so to speak? Like, is she like your life long, like, have you known her since you were six? Do you feel pain? Like, you know, like, I mean, you know, obviously she's a close friend, but what you're describing is, I mean, not a bad guy. It's just like they're just, they fight all the time and I, you know, he's, you know, it's like. I think I'm, yeah, I don't know why it's affecting me so much. I think that's one of the reasons I'm calling in and also how to talk to her about it because I'm really struggling to do it in the right way. Does she come to you about this relationship or other people and it's exhausting or are she afraid to even come to you guys

because she kind of already knows how you all feel. I think she knows how everyone feels. She is talking about it a bit more now because they've broken up, so it's a bit more like in the open. I think beforehand she wouldn't really talk about it and then there'd be a blow-up every few months and then she would talk about it.

But I think some of the reasons it's affecting me and this is also where I don't really know how to handle it is like I don't want to be selfish because I know that she needs support. but I, A, have, like, very strong feelings on it because I'm so worried about seeing her unhappy, like, in the future. If she stays with him, I just don't see how they get out of this quite toxic pattern. And then I think the other thing is that it's made her, like, a really bad friend.

It's so hard to talk to her about good stuff because I'm really worried that it will, like, make her sort of jealous or unhappy. And then bad stuff, she just doesn't have the mental headspace, for. And we live in different countries. So it's like even harder. You don't see her in the small day-to-day things. So I think there's like a bit of that that I'm finding difficult. But I'm also mainly just like really worried about what her future looks like if they stay together. There's not a ton you can do. In fact, like, I guess from what I'm hearing, it almost sounds like you're doing too much in a sense. Yeah, probably. I think probably.

How old is she? on your age she's also 30 yeah yeah yeah she's an adult person right and she's this is her life right um and i think as adults we have to walk a very fine line between just allowing our friends or family members to live their life you you know you can't help people who don't want to help themselves it doesn't sound like your friends in any immediate danger this is not like some dangerous bad guy she's dating who's you know has her under his spell he's gaslighting or it's just like two people sounds like you know he's a rookie at this so it makes a lot of sense why maybe he's not the best communicator and and why you know since it's his first relationship

she probably has more control and power in this relationship than you're probably giving her credit for not necessarily you know that only just based off of like if it's this if it's a If he is at least sincere in this, like, you know, it's his first love. It's his first relationship. He doesn't know what it's like. And I'm speaking in very generalities here. So, like, I could be way off on this guy. But usually, like, in your first relationship, you just, you don't know any better, right?

You don't know if you can, if there's a better match out there for you. You don't know if the fights you have with your partner are normal. We always hear growing up that, like, relationships. are really hard. They take work. It's not always going to be the honeymoon phase. You have to get through moments of adversity and those are all true, right? It's just the question is, is this adversity that two people still like are aligned and want to come together and work through their issues? Or is it just like, which often happens in these toxic relationships is like they're fighting as individuals trying to get the other person to do what it is they think they need. And

they're not equipped emotionally or they're or and not seeking out like third party help through couples therapy or friends who maybe like you know have been through it before uh and trying to listen to reason and yeah i'd be you know in those types of relationships who i don't know what she is saying to him at times or what he says to her and in moments of fear right in that fear of like when they're at the cross sort of breaking up or right now right now they broke up right like he according to you like sounds like he was like you know what i don't know if i can do this i don't know if i want the same thing let's break up and now they're already hanging out again which like for both parties now they're kind of really operating this place of like can i is i do i really

do this do we really move forward with this do i see this breakup through like what is she saying to him to make him question his decision what is he saying to her to make her want to you know we don't really know, right? And she's in a early 30 year old woman who you're not going to change her mind, you know? I think that's the really hard thing is like, I know that. I know she's an adult and also she's smart, amazing. But at the same time, I'm worried because, yeah, it is his. When I was 28 years old-ish, I was in the relationship that I've talked about briefly. the first time I got engaged where my then girlfriend slash fiancee cheated on me and that was a difficult experience. But like, yeah, that was, I was honestly probably, it was a toxic

relationship in the sense that I think that was just a very immature relationship. I think most of our relationship was based off of what the idea of what we thought we looked like. And, you know, I don't think we were that, I don't think we were that compatible. In the moment we, we, we, I think we liked how he looked or how he sounded. I thought it was a very superficial relationship looking back. I don't think I realized at the time, but I kind of isolated myself from my friends. Like the more they kind of spoke out about like their opinion about the relationship I was in or her or just how I was with her, I distanced myself, you know? And yeah, I didn't lose friends, but like for a period of time, I lost touch with friends.

And that was all me, you know, like I just didn't want to hear it. I didn't want to deal with them. I kind of got stubborn with my point of view. Eventually, obviously, we broke up and then, like, things came around and, or I came around more than anything, kind of got out of my head. But thinking back to that time, especially my friends, I just wasn't that interested in hearing it, you know. My friends had no authority over me. You know, I didn't, I guess the, the, the, the, best way I could say it is like they were just all my peers. It was kind of like in my mind, it was like, what do you know, what do you know what you're talking about in a very kind of stubborn, immature way? And I just find, you know, it's like unless she is coming to you directly and like, you know, you're the person, she really like, you know, she knows better, you know, you might, yeah, which doesn't sound like that's the case. There's not much you can do. That being said, you also, you mentioned you don't think she's being a very good friend right now. No. And I did sort of speak to her about this. Okay. How'd that go?

It actually went, like, I was absolutely terrified beforehand, but it was way better than I expected. But, like, nothing has really changed since then. I think, I think she recognizes it. And I think she knows that, like, this has taken a lot of her mental head space. And there are lots of things that because she finds, like other people's relationships like pretty triggering like a lot of her anxiety comes around she wants commitment for the future and he's like it's too much pressure type thing so I think yeah there's lots of things that she finds difficult to talk about and she acknowledged that in the call and was like I'm really sorry and I really do care about you and all of these sorts of things I mean yeah like she's sorry she cares about you but she doesn't have the emotional capability to kind

to give a shit about anyone else's problems but hers right now. And it's also been like the last two years because I think I would have a lot more grace and patience if it was you know like everyone has everyone gets like a six month rough patch

that they can. Yeah. I don't know. It's tough because like when we are when we are an emotional kind of fight or flight mode and she seems to be in her fight or flight mode with this relationship. It's is very easy to justify why our feelings are more important than everyone else is around

us. And again, I remember, you know, being 28 in that period. And I definitely, like, in the moment, I didn't, I wouldn't have been like, oh, I don't think what, you know, but looking back, yeah, that's how I acted, you know. And I think. But it's just like, I get it. Yeah. I really get it. And I understand that she doesn't have space for that. I guess it's like, how do I deal with that you i think you kind of let it go but the the fact that all right so like here you've painted this picture right you have a friend that you care about all right for the past two years she's been a little too pretty selfish when it comes to prioritizing her feelings about everyone else is around her and at the end of the day because she is not getting what her want what she

wants romantically in a relationship she just is one of those friends who just like constantly won't stop talking about her relationship needs or how she's being disappointed when it comes to like what she wants and she's always comparing herself to other people who are happy paying herself as a victim in her head and things like that you've communicated to her that she hasn't been the best friend she received that information and acknowledged it but like nothing really changed and at the end of the day she's still because she's still in this kind of fight or flight mode emotionally and yet we're at the point where it's like as you mentioned it's affecting you emotionally and like now you're thinking about how it's playing a role in

your head and I that's the part that you can control you can't control her like you know she's an adult woman you've talked to her whatever happens with this guy is going to happen it'll probably not work out it'll probably take longer than it should for her to get to that point where it won't work out you're just going to have to let it play out and then you will have to decide let's assume that like eventually things they move on when she comes crawling back so to speak to will you offer her some grace and say you know listen i just i get it i know you're going through a hard time but like you really just kind of checked out on me and the rest of us who you know i don't know me you know and i understand that this this matters to you but like you just it's kind of

always been about your feeling you know and you'll have to decide whether you want to accept give her grace or not, you know, but this is, this is her, you know, like, it's not like my, my friends, you know, being controlled by this guy and she's, how do I help her out? She's like, she doesn't, you know, she's making these decisions. She is. And like, I think I definitely will give her grace in that scenario. I think it's just really hard to watch in the interim. Don't watch.

But I also, how? Just not, like, speak to her. I mean, this type of friend, do you talk to her like every other day always? Do you still, like, what's the... Like, we speak a lot. She's one of my closest friends. Okay. Yeah.

But she also, it's not like she's talking about her relationship all the time. It's like, I guess it's a sort of selfishness in another way. It's more like she'll always prioritize things with him, I guess, to sort of like, in my opinion, to try and save the relationship. I don't know if she would see it in that way. So it's not the sort of thing where I can be. be like, hey, we've talked about this a hundred times, like, can we not? There's other stuff going on. It's more, she always just chooses him. She just will never like ask about what's going on with the rest of us. Like in person, she's often like a lot better, but she doesn't make

herself particularly available. She'll never like message just being like, just checking in, how are you doing, anything like that. And yeah, I think it's also really difficult when I know that she's finding it so hard, but she like really struggles to be vulnerable as well. So then What do you mean she struggles to be vulnerable? Like she won't necessarily like really talk it through that much. We only know these things are happening like in the big blowups or like when they break up or it's been like four or five times quite similar. This one I thought was it, but I apparently not. But yeah, in those times like she won't really talk about it.

She won't reach out being like, I'm really struggling or things like that. So it's quite hard when someone's not being a great friend and you know why. but they're not talking to you about why. Yeah, no, I get it. It's just, and the simplest way I can try to articulate this is like, what's your relationship status? Like, where are you in other aspects of your life? I'm married.

You're married. Okay, so like romantically you're like settled and everything's like in order and it feels and you were mourning the loss of, or at least a change in this friendship or like, you know, but this is this kind of, I just don't. know if there's much you can do other than like like it's it's this from my point of view it is silly that you are letting this affect you emotionally probably is silly silly might be a strong strong word because I'm not saying like you shouldn't care about like missing your friend or missing how it used to be with your friend and things like that but like again all you can

do is hold her accountable or let her be so to speak and hold it holding your accountable is this more you communicating whatever frustrations you have or distancing yourself a little bit and just you're doing the thing where it's like you're trying to not change anything right you want to continue to have this relationship stay on whatever trajectory it was always on and you just want to like have her get out of her head and continue things and that's you're just you're not being realistic about that because you're settled your married you have romantically what you want in your life right now and that's not stressing you out and i don't agree with maybe how you don't agree with it i don't agree with it how she is

making her life harder than it needs to be by overstressing and like you know just not accepting reality but like she this is this is how she's handling it right again you can just tell her hey i would just want to hear from you more or you could just like accept that that's where she's at and stop continuing to expect the same thing from her that you always expected from her because that's where you're that's how that's the part that's affecting you it's like you you kind of stubbornly don't want to acknowledge that fair or not whether however she's handling it my friend is very frustrated that she hasn't found her person despite many of her friends finding her person and she's at a particular age for women

where they get very self-conscious about the fact that they're single when the rest of their friends are not, she really likes this guy, she thought she was very close, it's all falling apart, it's blowing up in her face, and she's just having a hard time processing that, and she's probably definitely not doing it in the best possible way,

but like in the middle of all that, you're kind of stubbornly thinking like, well, that shouldn't change our friendship at all. Yeah, that's probably fair. But it's also like, there are two parts to it. I think that's like the selfish part. But then there's the other part that's like, I love her. Like, she's amazing.

And I don't want her to be sad. And I want someone for her that makes her like so happy. I don't want her to be ill. I don't want her to be so anxious. I just don't know how that. I just don't know any friend who is like, I don't know, like even like a twin sibling. I don't think has that type of influence or power when we're like love drunk and feeling very stubborn about our emotional relationships that we let people like change our minds.

You know, like sometimes we just have to have things blow up in our face and we have to hit rock bottom and we have to. It just sucks. You can keep telling like, I mean, listen, by all means, like this is your friend. Tell her exactly how you feel. But clearly, you know what I'm saying? You have, you're having a hard time doing that because you know. you know, she probably won't receive it. And it's a very, like, you know, it's a very fine line between saying, like, I just think this isn't your guy. You should definitely break up and you're

wasting your time and you guys are making each other miserable. And like, that's, you know, and you need to stop. And you want to like, grab her by the shoulders and kind of shake her and just tell her to like, you deserve better and you can find better. But you know, you know her. And you, like, as well as she's your best friend, you're very afraid to like communicate some of things to her, which I totally get because like it's very hard to get through to someone in these moments. Now you don't want to push someone away as well when they probably need like more support, which is the other thing that I've been kind of being like trying to strike the balance between being honest in case there's things that she's just not seeing and being really

supportive. Have you, have in any point in your life, have you been her? Not quite to that extent but yeah like a little bit which I also thought is like maybe why I find it so triggering to use a better word where I'm like I know that there's better out there now from having that like not so good like pretty toxic arguing all the time relationship and I just don't want that for her so I think yeah and also if someone at the time had said something to me I don't know no one did so I don't know how I would receive it probably not well I would probably not well. No, but like if all my friends and family were saying that, I like, I'd like I trust you guys, but maybe I wouldn't. Yeah, it's hard to say. I think usually we're not as

open to it's tricky when it comes to romantic love because so much about romantic love in our head is about like fighting for your love and fighting for your person. And like, and so anything or anyone, even if it's a friend that is criticizing or attacking your relationship, you get just very defensive, right? And almost like in an honorable sort of way. Like, don't talk about my, I can talk about my man. You can't talk about my man. You know, like, I think it's just like you got to strike that balance

between letting her do her thing and just saying, speaking your piece, which is it breaks my heart to see this relationship consume so much of your emotional energy. And I've already communicated this to you. But obviously, like, I get why. in some ways I understand the reasons but obviously it has created a distance between me and you and some of the other friends and that just makes us sad and it makes us sad because like we're you know we're really sorry to this isn't working out for you but we also think you

deserve better like we can see it from an outsider's point of view and I know you you can't see it but like this is how we see it and and if she doesn't want to listen you you just have to say, I understand, but, you know, and we'll always be here for you, but you kind of have to, that's the part where you have to let go where you can't, you can't move forward in your mind, kind of almost doing the same thing she's doing, which is like, be frustrated with the situation and ask yourself the why questions to answers you kind of already know, like, why is she doing this? Why won't she just see it? You know, why can't she just like move on and things like that and then and then you ruminate in your head about the like the

friendship and then it just stresses you out because you're like you're telling yourself well you're just like I need to figure this out I need to like try to how do I help my friend and you kind of just stay in that emotional state of mind and that's the part where like that's all you can do is to say like as much as this sucks this isn't without precedent this is a very common thing for people and friendships of all kinds to deal with these types of stuff. Romantic relationships often come in between friendships, especially temporarily. But you just have to be there for your friend. If and when she does come around and if she ends up getting what she wants with this guy and it just always is a little volatile, you still will be

her friend. But you do have to accept that for the time being, this. this friendship is going to be a little bit different than it was. Because then otherwise, you know, if you don't accept that, then you, that's when you become stressed and angry and, and feel helpless and anxious. And then when you are around your friend, whatever moments she is, whatever moments she will find to be like emotional, mature or just be present, you might ruin those moments in a sense, you know, like, because you're frustrated you know it's like maybe she's having a good day with her relationship

and she's like ready to enjoy her friends but you're like you you have some built up resentment and frustration and so you're a little edgy when you hang out with her you know it's just like you can do that but like that's the part of like that's the part of like that's the part where grace comes in and just saying i understand why i don't like why she's i don't like the way she's handling it I understand the position he's in. I wish she would listen to reason, but she's just not going to right now. So all I can do is just from time to time,

find my moments of holding her accountable by like just very gracefully that's just trying to push her in the direction I think is best for her. But if she doesn't want to listen, I just have to let her play things out. I can't fix her. You know, you're not her parent.

You're not a therapist. And that's the part where it's just like you're, there's nothing really you can do about it. You know what I'm saying? Like there's nothing I can say to you and say, all right, I know exactly what you need to do. If you do this,

I promise you, she's going to break up with her boy. You know, like I, there's just nothing that you and I can say to her to guarantee that she's going to listen to reason. This is also probably why it's making me anxious because there's nothing I can do.

Like, I just have to see what happens. Yeah. And I think, yeah, it's like the thing that stresses me out most, is, which is also probably more linked to our friendship, but in my mind, this is what I keep going to.

It's like, okay, if they end up together, like what does that mean for her, but also for our future, like, I don't want to hang out with this guy now after everything he's sort of done. And again, I don't think it's from a place of maliciousness, but it's also I hate the way he's treated her. I mean, again, I know nothing about this relationship, but my guess is you're only hearing one version and he has his version with his friends

and there's a good chance all of his friends hate her, you know, probably, you know, this is her life and you have to let her live it and you know, it would really rise. I mean, you know, I don't know. It's her life, you know, you just. I know. you guys it's life's I know life's short but it's not that short and things come around you know I just I had a friend I have a friend after the so in my early 30s fast forward a couple years got another relationship I left that relationship and I was kind of for the first time in my

life comfortably single I was like you know I was this in my 20s I felt like I needed to have a girlfriend I felt very incomplete without a partner but But in my early 30s, I decided to leave what I thought was, it was ultimately a really great person and a good relationship, but just it had had its, we had our fights and I just, I, we, I wanted to leave the relationship. And then my buddy had been notoriously single and, you know, he had. And, but he was just like, when I got single, I felt some jealousy from him, like, some, from a competition standpoint where all of a sudden, like, we were both single. And when he was like the friend who. And he was like the friend who. you'd go to a we'd go to the bars and all he was only looking for girls like he was never just like having fun you know it's like you show up it's like up there's no one here let's go to another bar i'm like we just got here maybe maybe someone will show up but like we're not hunting for girls all night you know well things just got real contentious between us and we kind of just stopped talking you know i just was like sick of his shit and probably he was sick of mine i don't

know but like for a year and a half like there was one and then i moved to chicago and it got so contentious that like this was a good friend of mine that like we ran into each other at a bar or a club in Chicago and it was like one of those like running into someone in high school you didn't talk to anymore and it was like really awkward and then like I don't know some more time went around and we reconnected and he kind of like got I don't know got out of his head and stopped being you know the person he was acting and we got back to where we were and you know friends and that that took like a couple that took a couple years and that's that was 10 years ago, you know, that shit happens sometimes with friendships, you know, like when we're

younger and we have these friends, especially before we meet our person, our friends, especially in early adulthood, are our kind of romantic partners. They're the people we go to dinners with and movies with and we talk about our feelings with and we're vulnerable with, even men, too, right? And then when one of those people finds a romantic partner, it almost feels like we lost that kind of, that connection. And so things can get kind of messy in those years, you know, because there's a lot of feelings of like, I'm sure she's very happy for you, but also very envious of you. And just probably some ways doesn't feel like it's not fair for you to criticize her or have no, it's because you have what you want. And she's just trying to get what you want and, you know, and things like that. But like,

sometimes you just have to let things play out and you're just going to have to be okay with a little bit of change in this relationship and disconnect in the hopes that like it'll work itself out it'll come around but you kind of stubbornly not allowing this friendship to evolve and accept that it's going through a little bit of turmoil doesn't make it better and it doesn't help you out because part of me is like to that end that friendship I described I was I was sick of his shit I didn't want to offer him grace I was like fuck this you know whatever and I was part of the reason why we lost complete touch for that period of time because I wasn't I I I don't want to offer him any grace or I was done offering him grace and so I played a role in that and that distance

and maybe it's what it needed I don't know but you're part of this friendship too and yeah she is starting it and she is handling it but like you have you can choose how you handle it too and your lack of just accepting that there's a part that there's nothing you can do and you might have to let things play out and and you might have to reposition your friendship to being like I'm just going to be the best friend that I can be to her given as much as she lets me and and then go from there but demanding that she like I know you're not but like the part of you inside is like does just like you're like this is bullshit and like stop room our friendship over this stupid fucking guy in this relationship, you know? And that's how

you're thinking about. And I totally get it. But like, you know, I just, I just don't think you're putting yourself in her shoes. Yeah, I think that's probably fair. And I don't, yeah, I don't want the relationship to change. Like, she's a super close friend. She was one of my bridesmaids, like, all of that. And we lived together. We were like a uni together. There's been like a long, yeah, long history. And I think also because, yeah, my other friends have got like in relationships and things haven't had to change because like their partners are awesome and I really like them. And it's like we're all like in this new phase together. And maybe I trust me. She feels that, you know, and that she feels that. Which must feel quite

rubbish. Yeah. And her position, she's, she's lacking. You have to give her confidence as much as you can, you know? And that's, if nothing else, despite your frustrations, it may fall on deaf ears, but you have to keep reminding her that she deserves to be happy and she deserves not to feel anxious about these things. And definitely not fair, but, you know, she, there's a lot of great things available to her because she just, right now, she is, she is acting as if she's either going to make it work with this guy or she is going to be alone forever. That's how she's operating. Well, this is what I've said to her, but then she's like, no, I know, I would feel fine if we did break up. It's just I want it with him. I think, yeah. Yeah, but I mean, we are very good

at lying to ourselves and convincing ourselves of things. I think there's a part of her that rationally knows that she will be fine. She doesn't want to be fine without him, you know. So I think that's true. She wants him. Doesn't mean it's the best choice. She just in that, you know, She just wants to do it, you know? Like, we've all wanted to do things, and then we look back, be like, what did I want to do that so bad? I don't know. Like, you just, you just decide that's what you want.

But, like, yeah, like, you just, this is very much you have to play the long game. Nothing you're going to say is going to have some more, like, eye-opening moment for her. It's like chopping wood, shavings make a pile. Like, you're not saying anything to her because it's going to immediately change her mind. You're planting seeds, you know? You're just. reminding her of her worth, you're you're checking in with her

because in case she needs to hear it today, you're going to hopefully give her a pick me up. You know, it's not, you're not saying it to her because she doesn't know or no one's ever told her that she's valuable or that she can do better.

It's just that reminder, you know? Because right now, her internal, like, clock or whatever, her voice is kind of, is telling her her fears are making her think she will be alone and her rational brain doesn't pop up in her head very often these days and you can be that reminder but like again you have to be willing to be that reminder without getting anything immediate in return and it may feel like it's you're wasting

your breath and it may feel like it's just more of the same that you're doing and not getting anything in return. You know, this is a moment in your friendship where it's not going to feel reciprocal, you know, where most of your friendship, like on any given day, you were always there for each other. This is that moment in that friendship where for a period of time, she is being a little selfish and self-centered, and you have to decide, am I going to look at our friendship as a whole and just assume and expect that this is a friendship that I'm going to have for much of my life and we'll get through it someday somehow I don't know when and maybe someday I will be the selfish one and I'm going to I'm going to call on her to like just deal with my bullshit and

hope that she does you know and that and you just have to decide whether you're willing to do that yeah and I am yeah like she's amazing so I think I need to probably just stop being from myself like from what I say yeah and I need to just keep. keep reminding myself that, yeah, I think I get frustrated because I still have expectations and maybe like lowering those expectations temporarily is going to make me happier in the friendship, make me be a better friend, like hopefully ultimately help her. Yeah. Yeah, it's tough. It's tough. Yeah, I think for the immediate future, it's going to feel very one-sided where it's going to feel like you're always thinking about what you can do for her and you're going to be doing

more outreach. You're going to be doing more than she's going to be doing for you. Because there's a part of her that's like, oh, well, she's good. She's got her, like, she's got someone to do that for her, you know? I think, yeah, which makes sense. I have just like one final question. This has been like so helpful. But if they do get engaged, what do I say? Congratulations. Congrats. But just that. Just leave it at that. I mean, if she's not asking for your opinion, I don't think you give it, so to speak. Yeah. But I also don't want to be like, wow, amazing news.

I don't, you know, I, again, she's not, she's not a 16 year old anymore. She's an adult woman. Yeah. And we, everyone learns different. You just, you can't live her life for her and you're not her parent and you can't tell her what to do. No, and I also, I don't want to. Yeah. But maybe I do want to.

No. Listen, I, I am someone who, I just don't want her to be unhappy. I agree with you. And listen, I am someone who, like, I'm, like, I've always been, like, I have 10 siblings, right? And when it comes to, like, I'm the second oldest. I'm the oldest boy. Overall, we have a very lucky, blessed family with, you know, my parents had a great job raising us all. But, you know, some of my siblings are, you know, make better decisions than others. And I've always prided myself over generally, for the most part, making good decisions for myself. And my parents have always been like, yeah, we don't worry about you because, like, we worry about more. other people and you're maybe one of those people who's like it's better at making decisions for yourself and you feel that maybe and so as friends you want to sometimes share that you know wisdom and but you can't and i've learned that right like you know people call in and like i've always been the guy who's been good at giving advice and even to my friends but like if people don't want your advice you're wasting your breath and i've had to learn that right and you just sometimes have to

bite your tongue and it's not your life. Whatever she decides, whether she wants to get engaged to this guy, maybe she goes all the way to have kids with this guy or get married this guy and then eventually five years, she's not blowing your face. Then, well, then you will have to deal with, she will survive that and you can still be friends and you're not going to be like, I told you so, but like, this is her life, you know, and you have to decide whether you want to be friends with whoever you want to be friends with, which includes the choices they are going to make for themselves in their life. And there's not much we can do about it, you know? But yeah, like I just... Yeah, and it's arrogant to assume that my thinking, even though I think a lot of

people are in agreement, is the right answer. Like, and that she wants to hear it. So... Are they, like, doing couples therapy or anything like that? No, he doesn't want to go. Well, so when it comes to stuff like that you know you could just say like you know I'm sure you've listened to me on these shows where it's just like sometimes asking questions gets through to people better than advice you know well so like the question is like when she when if you have a moment to talk to her about this relationship and she's saying well I've asked me go to therapy doesn't want to it's just like well then how are things going to change because you know if he doesn't want to get help and you know like what's going to change make her question that you know

asking questions to get her to answer her own questions sometimes helps people see what you see it's like when people call in and listen you know and we talk right and then a couple weeks later the episodes will come out oftentimes people will like listen to themselves hear their story and then and hear my advice and they they hear it very differently than they heard it when we were or they just kind of see how they sounded or or things like that but like you kind of have to get her out of that like now you're just telling her what to do right like it's like the parent-child relationship you're just i'm disappointed i'm disappointed do this but like ask her questions get her to think about her thought process you know if he's unwilling to like go to couples therapy what is he

willing to do to make this right, you know? Like, you know, how are you guys going to work through things as things get more difficult? But I do think asking questions rather than like offering unsolicited advice goes a long way. Yeah, I'll definitely bear that in mind. But I think this has been like so helpful for, I think I've, yeah, I really, I didn't like notice that in myself that I've been trying to keep the friendship exactly as it was, and then being disappointed and nervous when I see it, like, not going that way. And that is on me. Like, that's within my realm of control. So I'm going to work on that bit. All right. Well, sometimes it's good to, like, just knowing that will go a long way.

Yeah. Because, like, that's the part that's causing you the anxiety, you know, she'll, no matter what, you can be sad for her, but, like, she, you know, she's, again, she is an adult. If she doesn't want to learn by listening to her friends, which most people don't. She's just going to have to learn some way, you know? Yeah, I just hope it doesn't, like, cause her too much pain in the learning. Yeah. Has she had, like, she has she had boyfriends before? Yeah. What's different about this one? I don't know. Like, I don't know whether it is the timing or the fact that he is, like, non-committal, which sort of makes her, like, more nervous and makes her want to. Have it, so they, Have they ever been like boyfriend and girlfriend or is this like a long situation ship?

No, they were like they were, they've been together the whole time. But over the last two years, it's like every few months, another kind of like semi-breakup or him like threatening to break up with her. And I think that also, it's like her always feeling like she has to prove herself is like one of the reasons that I think she's finding it really hard to let go. Well, maybe she needs to let go. I mean, he's sounding like a guy who maybe blossoms late. got his first girlfriend or maybe he was just a fuck boy in his early 20s but like at the end of the day doesn't want to settle down right now just like isn't sure if he wants this to be it I mean that's what it sounds like and if that's the case then she needs to let him go and

and see if he regrets it hanging around and trying to convince him to like you know is not the way you know and I think that's why it's like so hard because it I think it's confidence crushing always having to persuade someone to be in love with you which is what's so difficult to watch but again like... It is, but that's not the way to do it. The way to do it is to show them

that there's a line out of door of people waiting to fall in love with her and the moment he... Oh, so you think I should find her some... Well, she has to be willing, but she has to get sick of him treating her like an option and she has to face the hard truth

that has nothing really to do with her per se but yeah that at the end of the day I'm sure he's trying to say it in a million different ways it doesn't sound like the truth which is like I'm just not sure if the person I want to only fuck for the rest of my life and I'm just not sure if I'm ready to like just be it and I just like I don't know what else is out there

and like I'm on Instagram and I'm all the apps and he just sees a bunch of potential options and just honestly wonders if he could do better. And she needs to see that as a reality not because and not so that it bruises her ego to the point where she's like, oh, I'm worthless, but it's like, fuck this guy. Like I, I know I'm a catch, you know, and I know that like. And she is. Yeah.

And I know that like I'm like, fuck it. I'm going to like be my best self. I'm going to stop wasting all this energy on this guy and whatever, you know, whether it's like hitting the gym or like just crushing life at work or just. being a hot commodity where, like, you just, you know, you focus on yourself and you focus on, like, just whatever it is you do. And, and then, you know, you get out there, you start dating and you stop. That, that will change his mind. You know, if there, if there was going to reason to get this guy to whip him into shape, it would be like the fear of losing her. He's not

afraid of losing her. Yeah, I think he's not. But then I can't think like this. I need to just think, like leave them to it. Yeah, unless she asks. You know, if she asks, then you can tell her. Yeah. I'm just going to keep being super supportive, low expectations, in the other direction, ask questions. In the interim, like, if, you know, because they are broken up, you can say to her,

it's like, you know, if you have a window, if she gives you any kind of window, just be like, you know, you are on, you know, she knows that you follow her and maybe you can be a little nosy. It's like you guys, girlfriends follow each other. and you can be, let's like, yeah, I haven't said, yeah, I haven't been like, hey, I see you're there like two nights or three nights a week still, like, yeah, I would, you know, I would make, maybe make a joke being like, you would get him to realize his foolishness by spending the night at some other guy's place. I mean, it's like, I do find it amazing. Like, it's like, I think I, I remember, I'll never forget my very first relationship. It was one of our many breakups and I was heartbroken. And I was just like, yeah I was like your friend where it was just like I had to do all these things to win her back and this woman I worked with I don't know she was probably like five or six years old than me she was like in her probably late I was in my early 20s she was like in her late 20s early 30s and she was like

go date other women go fuck other girls and I was like you're crazy like how is that gonna like I was so afraid to do that but she was so right you know like especially men like men are so afraid of you like you finding someone better than them but when when they when they feel like they have all the controller power and then even with my first girlfriend as soon as I ever I would always I was always like such a like a worthless sack of shit and anytime I've finally had the guts to put my foot down she would flip a switch and come running back she just has to find that strength I know but I also don't want I don't want him to realize like I just want them to break up.

But I will. If she asked for that advice, I can now give it. You're going to have to just let her play it up, you know? Yeah. No, I know. You just got to keep,

all your job is to try to make her feel as confident as possible. And I think I can do that. I think, yeah, I think what I've struggled with is like my own expectations on the friendship. And yeah,

it also does like really, suck to see her sad, but I've got to just come to the realization that, like, maybe that's the only way. Like, I can't protect her. Yeah. You definitely can't. Okay. All right. Sorry. Thank you. No, that was, I wish there was, like, some amazing thing I could do just to fix this all, but I think I kind of knew that was the answer all along. All right. Well, hopefully it was helpful. No, it was really helpful. Really helpful. Thank you so much. All right. Well, take care. I appreciate the call. Thanks. And please keep us updated. What, what, what, would happens, you know, in the future. Yeah, I will. I'll let you know. All right, take care.

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And we met online. Somehow the algorithm matched us. We don't know how. But we lived, I lived halfway across the country from him. I'm from the Midwest and he lives in the Northeast. I moved in order to be with him. And I don't regret being with him because he's amazing.

But the move I'm really struggling with. And I don't quite know how to talk to him about it. Did you move prior to you getting married or like how long ago did you move? So you like you met obviously like, you know, Natalie and I, for example, you met online, so to speak. She lived in Savannah. And then when we actually started dating. I shipped her over to L.A. What, what did it look like for you? So we met in August of, we matched online in August, or May of 20203. We met in August.

We got engaged in July of 2024. I moved August of 2024 and we got married in September of 2024. So it was kind of quick. Okay. How long have you lived where you live now? Almost a year. It'll be a year later this month. Okay. Well, listen, this guy is your husband, right? So, you know, I would approach this just if I would, I would, when you're in your shoes differently than say if this was a boyfriend that you moved for. Who does what for a living, you know, practically speaking, like, why other than like preferences, like why objectively do you guys live there? And what would have to change? I never wanted to move. What's that? I never, I never wanted to move. No, I get that. Yeah. I moved because he and I both work

in the same field. We work in the arts. And there's a lot more opportunity for us to do our job. where he lives versus where I lived. Okay. And so I've gotten a lot more job opportunities here, which is great. And the other problem is that I have a much wider range of experience. So I can always go get an office job or something, but he's only ever done what we do for a living. And so me moving here, I found more opportunities and he has a great job. We move back to where I live.

He probably would not be able to do his job. And I don't really know what we would do for him for work. Okay. Well, that makes it more difficult. I would say, just in general, it takes much longer than a year to really make any place, to really give any new place a chance. I'm not saying you're ever going to like it any more than you do today. I can't, I can't guarantee you that. But I do know that it takes longer than a year for a place to start feeling like home, so to speak. Right now, it's been less than a year,

and all you can tell yourself is, I didn't want to do this in the first place. I didn't still don't want to do it now. And as I expected, this place is not home. Yeah. So there, there is that. Now, you mentioned like you're having a hard time bringing it up to him. One, he's your husband. So you guys should be able to talk about these things, right? If nothing else, you should feel like if, you know, you guys are always talking through things. Talking through it might not change, change anything, but at least, I mean, I guess wouldn't, let me ask you this, wouldn't it feel better if you were able to find the words to communicate this with him

hopefully not like in a harsh words like you I doubt you know you probably don't want to say like I love you but I hate my life here like that that might come across a bit strong to him and make him feel like you doesn't know what to do it's like well I want to make my wife happy

but like uh but maybe you communicate it says like I am struggle I've been struggling with the move it's like I haven't it still doesn't feel like home and I guess I don't know what to do, but I just wanted to talk with you about it. And then he was like, all right, well, let's talk about it. But even if you guys sat down and talked and realized that like, you know, just based off of everything in our lives, as much as I may hate to admit it, I guess it just makes the most

sense for us to stay here for a period of time. Would that, would that be better even if nothing changed, knowing that you could talk to your husband about this stuff? We have talked about it. And this is kind of why I'm struggling with how to talk to him about it. Because every time I bring it up like we both would do anything for the other person. And so when we talk about it and he says, well, we always knew that moving back to your hometown was an option, but I don't want him to feel the way I feel, um, especially because I don't know what his work situation would look like if we moved. And I don't, I don't know. I just don't want to make him feel the way I feel now. What is a life with each other look like? What have, you know, family planning or like, what do you

guys want as a married couple for yourselves? We're not having kids. So it's just us. Um, But part of the issue, like I am really, really involved with my nephews. They live in my hometown as well. And I helped raise them for like 10 years. And so leaving them also was really hard. So while they're not my kids, they are also a big part of consideration of how I live my life. Okay. That's definitely a challenge.

And like career-wise, how much does your career in his career give him a sense of purpose? More so for him than me, I always, when I was by myself in my hometown, I always did it as kind of a side gig thing. I always had a corporate job for insurance and to pay the bills and then I would do this for fun on the side, but this has always been his full-time gig. And then when I moved out here, we agreed that I would be able to try and do this full-time and I am. And that part is great, but I'm also not making as much as I made in the corporate world. So it's kind of kind of canceling each other out. Like I'm happier with my work, but I'm also not making as much. Gotcha. But also, you could get into the corporate world where you live now and probably make more money if you wanted to.

Yeah. Yeah. And he doesn't really, he doesn't have that experience. So that's also what makes it hard because I don't want to uproot him and give him no options where I live. Well, I mean, I think we all need a sense of purpose, right, in life. That's just like a, and I think men in general, not always, but men typically will find at least some of that purpose through like their career or they're feeling like a sense to provide. for themselves and their family, and they want to feel like they can accomplish things they care about. And I think, you know, just as a guy, I know that, like, often that affects men. And I think women, too. And so, yeah, that's just something that you think you need to consider because, yeah, it's like, you just hate right now where you live. You know, it's not home. Your nephews aren't there. It's just, it's not home. If you move to the Midwest, he might feel the same way plus feel like he hates his job he hates what he's doing he gets no purpose out of it

and then his only purpose and not that you're not enough but like you know is his wife and it's just like he just you don't want to hate you don't want him to hate every aspect of his life but you and now you're kind of similar in the same you know but like you're just going to have to find some balance i i i just go back to maybe you might need to give this place a little bit more of a chance than you have. And I'm not saying you should, but I just, I do know that it takes more than a year to make a new place work for you. And knowing that you came into this new place with your guard up, so to speak, already with a little bit of like, I don't know if I'm going to like this, it doesn't help the situation, right? And it may never feel like home or the Midwest, but it probably

could feel better than it feels now. You know, because I'm getting the sense from you that, like your current job while it's cool you've really downplay it's like it's it's fine like I like it's the career it's the field I'm working in the field I went to school for but you know I don't know it's like it's more like a hobby and honestly I'm I liked making more money before and maybe you enjoyed the social aspect of it I don't know maybe you made friends at work and stuff like that where I don't know maybe this job now doesn't allow for as much socialization I don't know maybe since like I'm giving I'm getting from you that like you don't really care about your current job all that much one way or the other and that there's pros and cons to staying in this field and there's pros and cons to like getting back to the what you call like a corporate job maybe that's something you consider because then maybe you make some friends and you know like you have to figure out a way to make this new place feel like home and that includes more than just like living with your husband in his city you know you have to try to make it your city and you have to make friends and you have to connect with the

community for it to feel like home because otherwise you're just always going to feel like you're living in a city that's not your home you know and that's what's hard they feel that I'm in it's a contract type of situation so I'll do a contract for a few weeks and then it's up and I go somewhere else. So it does make it harder to make friends, whereas where he is, he's just steady and consistent and always there. So that does make sense. Yeah, because right now, you're just, all you're doing, you've very much moved for your husband, for love. Like I said before, you moved not being excited about, it was just for love. So you weren't, you know, and then you've done really nothing, you know, other than like moving for your husband, your mindset has always been just proving to yourself

why you knew you wouldn't like it. I think it's like changes just, it's so hard for me that it's almost debilitating. And so I feel like I've kind of spent my first few months here just in like fight or flight mode and just trying to get through it without panicking or melting down. And so now that I feel more comfy, I think that's why my brain is finally starting to be like maybe we don't like that. Maybe, but like I guess what I'm saying, it's like there's a bit of a mindset there.

Anxiousness or anxiety comes from worrying. I mean, again, I'm not a psychologist. so like don't quote me on it this stuff but like it's just you're worrying about the future the unknown and with some preconceived notions of how you think or how you told yourself you know how things are going to play out and then you're worrying about those things manifesting itself you know like you went into this move with a bit of a like this is going to suck mentality like you martyred yourself for love or it's just like well do it for him because I love him but uh you know like I wonder if just like changing your perspective of just like you know what like I don't know

like start pointing out things about your into yourself or it's just like what do I like about this place because right now I'm guessing overall it's just like you just tell yourself you don't like there's nothing you like about you your your mindset is just to remind yourself what this place doesn't offer you doesn't offer my nephews doesn't have my family my favorite restaurants my like my just my my my comforts like I'm always away from them and you haven't tried to find those you haven't tried to replace those I mean you'll never replace your nephews but like you haven't tried to replace what you loved about the old place you lived in with new little things of like your favorite spots and you know and then making friends like if you haven't made friends yet

like I can understand why this place doesn't feel like home you know because if your husband has his life outside of you. And when he's at work and if he's with his friends, how do you feel connected to this place? You don't, right? So it just, it, then you spend all that time missing the old place. I think you could probably give this place more of a shot than you have. You may still end up hating it. I don't know, you know, but I'm getting from you that like you've, and like, listen, we, it's 2025. It's a, it's a pretty quick flight from the Midwest to the east. coast and maybe the money you make switching careers into a corporate job if nothing else pays for flights back and forth to spend more time with your nephews to get home more often and maybe

you're spending 300 bucks a month to to fly back home for a long week and every month you know it's like a two-hour flight from the east coast to the Midwest anywhere in the Midwest you know there are other ways to try to have your cake you need it too but he is your husband and you know these are the difficult choices that life will bring you when it comes to like making a life work with someone else and relationships are about compromise. You do need to feel like he's, what compromises, you're making a big compromise for him and for the relationship. It's not a tit for tat situation, but you need to feel like he does recognize that and appreciates that and wants to whatever he can do to help you with that struggle or, you know,

so it's definitely a balance and just continue to talk about that, you know, if that makes sense. It's just, yeah, because the, you know. And he's so supportive, but that's kind of why I wanted to talk to, like an outside party, because every time I talk to him, he's just, he's so supportive and I don't want to, like I said, make him feel the way I'm feeling or put him in the position I'm in. And I really just wanted someone kind of outside of the situation to take a look at it and give me advice because he's, he's so supportive. He's so wonderful. That's awesome. And like, that's a great that you guys have that. I just, you know, just hearing you talk,

um, it sounds like deep down you know or, or worried that if you, if you guys were to move to the Midwest and you feel like you, ultimately, it sounds like you know that if you really needed him to do that, he would probably do that. But if he did that,

he might really struggle with finding purpose outside of the relationship with his career and he might really hate any other type of job. And like, leaving what, on some ways, feels like maybe a dream job for him would be very difficult for him. And yeah, that is the challenge. Because you guys are a team. You're married, you know, and you guys have to make decisions what's best for the team. And that sometimes includes moving and, but it's tough. I think in the short term, if you're not going to play that card and get him to move, I think you could do yourself a favor to try to stop telling yourself and pointing out

all the things in your head the things you don't like. Because when we go down those rabbit holes of like being negative about something, we're always just looking for ways to confirm that point of view. Challenge yourself to stop confirming what you already know, which is like if you had it your way, if you could only change one thing and not change anything else, you would just relocate you two to the Midwest and by some miracle he could keep his job and his friends. but you could be home. But that's not possible. So in the meantime, find your moments, figure out whether this is the job you really want, you know, maybe more money and more friends. And then maybe you can still do this field on the side as a hobby or do it like support your husband. And maybe you

can scratch that itch by like just, you know, supporting him in his field or being the person he always goes to for advice or like counsel because you, you do have experience in the shared field. you can scratch that itch that way, but in the meantime, you're working a job that you enjoy just as much, but you make more money. And there's a little bit more social element to it where you slowly start making friends. And then you start making this place home. You got to plant some roots here. You know, if you want a metaphor, it's just like you have like this flower bed that you haven't really planted in the ground. It's just like it's in a pot, right? So like you brought, you brought a flower when you moved you brought a bunch of flowers in pots and you haven't

replanted them into the soil where you're still in pots so like that that's where you are mentally like you're still like I don't know I'm not ready to like plant the my roots in here I'm just I'm going to stay in the pot and you're like well you know there's not enough dirt I'm not getting all the nutrients I could if I was but you know but like this sucks and I think you have to get in there plant your feet you know so to speak and and really give it a shot because you're still You're still in the pot. No, I think you're, I think you're really right. And this is what I wanted to hear before I pulled the we need to move card because I want to work on myself first.

So I appreciate you saying that. Okay. Yeah, and I think it's less working on yourself. It's just your perspective about this situation. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it definitely takes more than a year. Yeah, I remember when I first moved to L.A. And I was like, I don't know.

Like, it's a nice weather, but like, I don't know. Like, this place is weird. And, you know, it's just home is home. You know, it's just, it's just, it's. It's tough to change those things. So, yeah, give it a shot. What are some extracurricular activities you and your husband can do together that are outside of you guys working and sitting at home?

Yeah, we do try and do a lot of stuff. We'll go to like farmers markets on the weekend or we'll take little day trips into the nearby city. So when we're together, it is great, but I think you're right that when he's busy, I need to make more of that. out how to do things that are with other people because you guys go into a farmer market as a couple and I do that all the time. I bet farmer markets in the East Coast feel a lot like farmer markets in the Midwest, but you're still like holding hands and picking out flowers

and oranges and then you go home and it's like you're not, it doesn't really, it doesn't make that place unique. You need to connect with this new place somehow that is unique to that place. Yeah, we've we've done some exploring but I think I need to kind of do more of it on my own so I make my own connections instead of just with him or through him. Even favorite coffee shop like places to go just like little things that you like about this place so that when you go home and visit home you can't wait to come back to like get that coffee that home doesn't have or that favorite meal at a restaurant that like it's just no place in the Midwest makes it the same way or this.

spot at the park that you really enjoy just going to whatever where you live now that just they don't have you know it's like you got to find those little things or the friend that you really connect with that feels like oh i'm really glad i found you and you live here and not there and whatever it is no that makes sense cool all right well hopefully this was helpful awesome thank you all right well would love an update as uh whatever you decide to do in the future if if this was helpful or if if if you're able to change your perspective we'd love an update Okay, yeah, I'm going to work on it. Thank you so much. All right, take care.

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follows. How's it going? So I've been wondering if the guy that I've been texting just doesn't like texting or just doesn't like me. Okay. Tell me about this communication and this guy. So basically, we met on Hinge last summer, went on a couple dates. We were both very busy and I don't, I wouldn't say I'm the best texter, you know, like I don't prioritize that like hourly, you know, it's like something that is not really on the back of my mind like too much. So we didn't really talk a whole lot either. But we did see each other. We had three good dates. ultimately, I think like just with being busy on both ends, you know, he had grad school.

I had, you know, work. And honestly, I really wasn't sure about the connection. So I kind of just prioritized more hanging out with my friends. We ultimately ended things last summer just because, you know, communication. We both kind of weren't really even speaking to each other and So it's just kind of like fade away or did like one person say, hey, I just not sure this is working and the other person was like who? I said, hey, I don't think because he reached after because I don't think we had spoken at that point for like two weeks. And I was like, I don't even know what we're doing anymore. Like are, are we still talking?

Gotcha. And then he reached down. He's like, hey, so like, what's going on? And you were just like, honestly, I'm just life's busy. You're cool. But like, I just don't. I don't know if there's a there. Exactly that.

Yeah. Okay. Exactly that. And selfishly, I will say, like, I don't know how I was feeling about things. But I, it was kind of like a way out, I guess. He was cool. And I was open to getting to know him. But I just wasn't sure if I was ready to like be more exclusive.

Anyways, so we ended. And then in June, he reached out to me again. And we had not spoken all year. I'm very much someone that like when I end things with someone, I just, you know, there's no back and forth after that. Anyways, in June, he reached out to me and he said that he finished grad school and he was open to going on more dates if I was. You know, he offered dinner and mentioned, oh, like, you're someone I really got along with and saw myself, you know, potentially growing into more of something with. So I honestly didn't know how to take it. I did enjoy hanging out with him like dating is a little tough sometimes. And he was someone that I think I got on with and had a lot in common with. But ultimately I did decide to give him another chance. Again, we went on like three dates. They all went super well. But he's the one who like reconnected with you?

He's the one that reached out. Yes. Yeah. He reached out and then the dates went super well. It kind of felt like we kind of picked up where we left off. At this point, have you guys hooked up yet? No, no. but that is interesting you say that third day kind of there was chance for it but I didn't allow

it okay um I just wasn't I don't do that when I'm actually like interested in someone sure so yeah we went on vacation for 4th of July both went on this is when I actually reached out to you guys we both went out of town separately you guys both did your own thing separately yeah separately and then he just I didn't hear from him which I didn't think was super uncommon because you know he's with his family. Probably he's not worried about texting someone. Um, I thought the same. Like, I think we could just do our own thing, but just reconnect when we get back. And then once we got back, he did reach out again. Um, but I had, I had like, he didn't talk to me at all. Like we didn't get to that point of like letting him know that I was going to be busy for

the next like three weekends in July. So, um, we just ended up not seeing each other. But the communication just got super choppy after that. I'm not, honestly, after the third date, I, didn't notice a little bit of a switch in energy, but I didn't want to think too much of it. You know, it was a third date. So I didn't want to read too much into anything. Have you guys kissed? Have you done anything? Yeah, we kissed. That was it just missing. No other physical intimacy. Okay. And then you felt like a switch up, but like he reached out after your guys's trip and then like where are things now? Where things are now. So he reached off the trip, but then, you know, I let him know. He asked if I wanted to, like, do something. I said, you know,

I'm busy the next two weekends when I get back week. Or like, I even offered like maybe sometime during the week if I have time because I commute for work. So my weeks are pretty busy like my weekdays. So weekends are more so the time I used to hang out with friends or a date or something. So once he found out I was busy, I don't know if that switched something for him because he just the energy like completely shifted like his texting got a lot less you know he he just wouldn't respond to me honestly um sorry to repeat myself but yeah um and then we didn't really speak much the over the next like three weeks like here and there a little bit and then when i was my last like vacation like i think like a week and a half ago he was he like set up on my

Instagram story and was like, oh, like, I like your dress or something, something dumb. And I obviously was like, oh, thank you. And he said, like, one are you back? I told him, I'm back now. I'm super tired, whatever. I was just making conversation at that point. And he was, this was on Instagram, by the way, not even texting. And then he was like, well, let me know when you're back. And I'm like, I'm not one to chase the guy. Like, I really am not, especially this early on. Like, I feel like. Yeah, but I guess, but what I'm not really hearing from you, And when I'm listening to your story, I'm trying to put myself in his shoes a little bit. Like, how would I perceive your communication?

First of all, you kind of already rejected him way back back. Right, right. And then it was him who reached out to you, right? And it sounds like what you're saying is like you, you guys had some nice time together, but like you've kind of kept it casual. And he's kind of kept it casual too. what I'm hearing I'm not even sure

how you feel about this guy but all I know is that regardless of how you feel about him taking everything into account from the time in which you first started hanging out with this guy he has gotten into your head a little bit

just because he hasn't been as predictable as you would hope and I'm not even sure if he would text you in a way that you would want or if he communicated to you in a way that met your expectations, I don't know how you would feel about him. I don't know if you know how you would feel about him. But he lacks the consistent communication enough to at least make you go, well, what does he like me? Yeah. Yeah. I think for sure. I mean, I will say like when we first

after the first like couple dates, like, this is not necessary for me. I don't think like when texting you have to like he would text me and be like oh hope your week's going well like can't wait to see you Friday like when we had like plans yeah and like obviously like I don't need him to do that every week like that's just obvious it was nice what did you were say in response to those messages I reciprocated I really was good enjoying getting to know him I felt like I mean I didn't want to get too much into the weeds but after we ended like I sometimes thought about him and wondered like I don't know if like that was just a me thing being kind of like avoidant and the terms of like, oh, like, I don't know if I'm ready to like, for the commitment or, you know,

so sometimes I did think about him when we were away. And so I did reciprocate when he was texting like that. And then, you know, we just kind of started getting busy. And that's when I noticed the communication started getting more inconsistent, especially after a third date. Like I said, like there was a chance for intimacy. And I didn't, I like stopped it, I guess. And he, after that, like the next day after that date, he like didn't talk to me at all. I knew he had planned with his friends and stuff, but it was just like, it made my, like, lights go off of like, oh. What are the chances he could feel projected?

Yeah, just a little. There's, I mean, there's a huge chance. Like, did you guys talk about that? Like, were you just like, nah? Or were you just, you know, what did, when you, when you, when you stopped the physical intimacy from going any further, like, how did you communicate that? Was it like, hey, I really, really like you and I really like where this is going. But, like, I just, I move a little slower.

and like, I just, I don't want to get physical with you before I know what this is, or were you just more like, I don't think we should? I just said I don't think we should. I don't like to do that, like, so early on when I'm seeing someone that I like. Oh, so you did say that you like. I mean, like, I guess, like I said, like, I'm enjoying it. Well, that last part is really important. I'm really curious, did you actually communicate that last part or did you think that part,

but only communicated that I just, yeah, don't want to. Okay, let me rephrase. When I said it, I said, I don't do that so early on. And since we're still seeing each other and this is new and don't know where this is going, like, I just don't want to like be intimate yet. That's where. So I think I wasn't direct with them. So that, yeah, if I'm hearing that, it's unclear how she feels about me. Gotcha. Like, okay. Like is that is that as her is. Yeah. It's it might just feel like you, again, you've already, you've already turned them down. So like it went. Yeah. did you mean when you say, I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm, I don't chase men. Like, what does that mean to you? I just, like, my biggest rule is, like, if you're confused, then he doesn't like you. But from what you're saying, it kind of sounds like, you think I'm not being direct and, like, making him confused. So it could be, like, a matter of, like, miscommunication. I, I just think there is definitely, like, when I say, or when, when, when, when it's necessary for anyone friends me people online to say things like if if he wanted to he would you know

shit like that um those are usually communicated to people who like can't take the hint you know it's it's it's you're saying it to the people who are constantly making excuses for the person they've been hanging out with them for a period of time they're stuck in this like never ending situation ship they're always like talking to a friend friends about he's a really good guy but you know and your friends are like you know well if he really wanted to hang out with you he would you know like when you hooked up with a guy a couple times and then he really does go dark on you but says things like we should hang out sometime in the future but like you're like when is some time and what does the future mean and you're just sitting

by your phone waiting for him to reach out and like and then he does at like 11 p.m and it's kind of like you get the u-up text and things like that that's when like you need to say things like if he wanted to he would like let's be real here you know you're applying the yeah you're applying the if he wanted to he would with someone that you're describing as someone who more than you has like pursued a relationship this type of relationship he's been rejected by you a little bit followed up with you, has reached out in between dates in ways that a lot of women out there would be like, I've never had a guy say things like, I hope you're having a great week and I can't wait to see you, you know, like, those are nice moments. And that's awesome that you're taking it slow,

but you do have to give him something too, you know? Like in 2025, listen, I think it's hard to date out there. And, you know, I think it's difficult to be a good. guy and date out there these days. I understand there's been a lot of bad, bad actors, and I think historically over the years, certainly men in a patriarchal society have had a lot of advantages that women haven't had. But like, in 2025, it's just like any good guy who wants to pay attention to the climate out there and wants to listen to women and their frustrations of how men have behaved in the past, it can be confusing, you know, to be like, am I supposed to to pro-s women in public, or am I supposed to never talk to them? Because, like, honestly, I'm getting

mixed signals from people, you know? Um, do I pursue or do I, like, take a hint? I don't want to be aggressive and creepy, you know, like, we used to watch movies and films and, like, you'd hear stories about, like, I had to ask her 20 times to marry me before she said yes. And like, in 2025, that version sounds like a stalker. Right. You know, you're like, you're right. Yeah. You know, What is romance in 2025? It's like, ask a guy, you're going to get 20, 20, 20, divan, and it's like, I don't, like, am I supposed to pursue? Because I don't want a restraining order against me. Yeah, yeah, totally.

She told me she didn't want to hang out anymore. So, like, cool. And I'm not, you know, like, obviously this is, I'm speaking in broad generalities, but. You're speaking from a guy's perspective, which I need to hear. Yeah, or just like assuming, I'm assuming this guy's a decent guy. And if I were, if everything you're telling me, I would be like not entirely sure. And it also kind of remind me, like, when you told me about like, oh, we both went on trips on Fourth of July, there, you know, in my single days, there was this girl I really liked,

right? And honestly, like, I mean, it was a, I pursued her for a couple of years, to be honest, off and on. You know, I met her right before I went on The Bachelorette. Okay. I met her at the clubs. And I thought she was very attractive. and I hadn't met someone in a long time that I got excited about.

And she was a bottle service girl. It's funny because she ended up getting a job in software sales. But at the time, all my buddies made fun of me because they just referred to her as bottle service girl. Oh, wow. The nicknames. But I thought she was very attractive. And then I met her.

I asked her out. And then she put her name in my phone. And I was like, I went home that night. being like excited and then I followed up with her um to ask her out and she like never went out with me and then I kept in her like her communication patterns were super weird and finally I just got so tired of like asking her but she kept she was like almost like vented like hey I'm sorry I just you know I just got out of relationship blah blah blah blah blah blah and and then like two months later I went on The Bachelor and then I got back and then she had moved out to California she

I was living in Chicago and then I ended up moving to LA and then like we ended up after the Bachelor like we met out we hung out a couple times and it was kind of awkward and like nothing really happened and then like cup and then we lost touch again and then we reconnected again and then finally like we actually started dating where we like you know got together we hooked up and blah blah and and there was like we was a there was a real bond there and for a moment, I was like, oh, I think she really likes me. I think I like her. And then I went home for Christmas and New Year's. And then we just like lost touch. And I think we were both just kind of like not sure how to pursue things. You know, I was in my head because I had tried so hard

in the past. And she just, you know, she had her awkward side and her awkward moments. And I had mine too. And we were both kind of being awkward at times. And we were just like, but I think, we both kind of liked each other. And ultimately, like, we just, we, we never worked out, but this was a person who, like, we kept finding our way back to each other. And ultimately, just, you know, she's happy in life and I'm happy in life and whatever.

It didn't work out. But my point is, is like sometimes two people can like each other and just not be the best communicators. And you're still, you're kind of in your head about, like, does this person like me or not like me? especially since you had already rejected him once, you might have to be the one who puts themselves out there and say, I've really enjoyed me getting to know you, no pressure.

I know, like, in the past, but, like, I do like where this is going. And I'm sorry, I, like, and I forgot to mention, like, you know, the other night we had a really nice date, and I kind of stopped things from moving forward. Like, I stopped it because I do like you. And I wanted to see where this is going. And I don't think I really said that to you. And, like, who knows? He, he might put yourself out there and he might be like, well, listen,

he's over it maybe i don't know i don't know i'm i'm good you know like but i don't think in 2025 women who have like core principles who generally say like i don't i'm not a cha i don't chase i don't like there's a difference between being vulnerable and putting yourself out there and not chasing and i think you you know what i'm saying and i think you're in you're you're having a hard time seeing the difference between the two and i think it's okay for anyone in any dating situation heterosexual, gay relationship, you know, lesbians, whatever, like sometimes, sometimes it just requires you to be vulnerable, put yourself out there and say, hey, I like where this is going, I like you. You know, that's not, that's not you chasing. That's giving someone a green light.

That's giving someone permission to also be vulnerable and see if they want to then pursue you and like make plans and take the initiative. But like, men do need to be validated. men need to be men need to receive signals that they're making good decisions that they are that their efforts are being well received I think it's awesome like I think it's awesome you may the you know do what you want to do but as you've heard me say I think hooking up on the third date was something you really like complicates things and it it it might think I would have felt worse if it sure and he and you he might have he might have confused already having sex with you with being like, I don't know if there's anything to get to know.

I just men, sex fucks up men's perspective when it comes to dating, you know? Yeah. I think it fucks up women's perspective differently. Yeah, for either way, while you made the right decision for yourself and probably for the chance of this relationship, it's still, you still rejected him. Not that you have anything to apologize for, but like, it's just knowing that like, all right, well, just, you know, and this is not about like, oh, the fragile male eagle. I don't know. It's just making sure that he just knows that you're not rejecting him. You're just

staying true to yourself and you're just saying no to like getting intimate. It has nothing to do with rejecting him. And I think sometimes it can be very confusing as a guy. But like it seems like he likes you or at least there's something there. And I think maybe he is just, it wouldn't surprise me the way you're describing this, if he's getting a little tired of pursuing you without like really knowing if you're into him. Yeah. No, I totally hear what you're saying.

I mean, I agree. I think like both of us have been really poor about communicating like vocally. Like the first date, like I think we both communicated that. Like he told me like, and it was first date. So I'm not, I'm taking it with a grain of salt essentially. I know I sound so cynical, but like I just, I'm a little guard.

when I date, but he was just saying, like, I think you're really great. Like, we get along really well and, like, I really see myself, like, being, like, you know, serious with it. He was saying a lot in the first date that I was, like, like, just telling me kind of essentially how he feels, like, about pursuing me again. And I reciprocated, I told him, I also feel, like, the same way in the terms of I really enjoy hanging out with you and getting to know you and, like, you're someone that I thought about after we ended. And I told him, I very much vocal. those things and he is that when you first when he first kind of pop back in or yes that's was first date second date we kind of like talked about those things and but i did say i will preface maybe this is

where the hesitation on his end is coming i said like you know i don't know exactly like how soon we should like when we would get there but like i'm excited just like get to know you right now and like just see where we go have you ever asked him out no never asked him out on a date you know i think that's okay to do when do you think that's like okay i guess like it doesn't matter like you can always ask someone out on a date but like we were just so new that i was like okay like when do i take the initiative to like plan something because he well you've already been on several dates so you don't have to be so like hey do you want to go on a date you could just be like what are you doing tomorrow i'd love to see you again that's true this is true i so like i guess like where my hesitation is right now like when

he messaged me on instagram we were talking and he said like let me know and you're free, I said, I'm free Sunday, and I never got a response. So that's where I'm like a little bit. Okay. Well, yeah, that's a little bit of rejection. Right. Like, I don't know, like, what is going on, like on, I don't know. It's like, it's obviously like a conversation can happen. Sunday has passed. I'm guessing. Sunday has passed. It's been, it's about to be a week since Sunday. I don't know. Give him a hard time, text them and be like, I'm just going to, you know, I do think you can get your answer a lot faster, faster by just putting yourself out there a little bit more and seeing if he wants to hang out with you or not.

Yeah. Him not responding on Instagram is a little bit of rejection and that's definitely a little bit of a wrench for sure. And like, but, you know, I just remember so many times in dating situations where I was like, I don't know, I don't know, I feel. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And, you know, if I, if I, I were you, I would at least be, all you're risking is a little bit of ego embarrassment and a little bit of like, again, there's a huge difference between chasing and putting yourself out there.

Agree. And you're better off just putting yourself out there enough to get whatever answer, to get the answer to whatever question you want. Because I don't think, you don't seem like that person who easily chases. And the type of chasing, I think you really need to be mindful not to do is like when it's so obvious he's not that into you that's yeah that i mean and you keep sitting around hanging and and trying to make excuses and like you know talk to the girlfriends who say things like no he's just like yeah oh my god he's just like really busy and like this one time i thought i got you know

and it's like and they come a ball excuse in the book why you should just sit by your phone and wait like that's not what you're doing well do you think it should be this complicated so early on like I think in 2025, we all have a way of overcomplicating dating. Right. You know, like it just, we would be a lot more successful in dating if all of us were to stop like waiting for the perfect person. If we're meeting people on the apps, get to the point much faster, you know, get on at least a Zoom date or a FaceTime date, have a cup of coffee, figure it the fuck.

out. When you meet someone you like, just pursue that until it run its course. If you like someone, be exclusive sooner than later. Call someone a boyfriend or a girlfriend. Be willing to break up. But like now it's, well, I don't know if I like labels and let's just play it out. And, you know, everyone's like, let's not rushing into something turns into like a year long courting process. And it's just, while everyone's just like making sure, like, well, I don't, you know, it's like, they're treating like calling each other boyfriend and girlfriend is like the new like husband and wife you know um and i think we all like overcomplicate things so does it have to be as complicated no but i think we all kind of do that a little bit because you know we don't want to

put ourselves out there you don't want to get rejected we don't it's like you know yeah totally and if i were you i would just text the guy and and maybe you can give him a hard time you can not give him a hard time. You could ignore the fact that he didn't respond to you. Be like, I'm just going to assume you didn't see my DM, but, uh,

I, like, I want to see you again. Okay. That's, I can do that. When are you free? That's,

just be direct, just be direct, you know, he's either, if he likes you, he will want to, he'll be like, oh, cool.

Like, yeah, she wants to hang out. I fuck with this chick. I'm free. And if he doesn't like you, you're going to get, if he blows that off,

then I would shut it down. Then that's my answer for sure. Yeah. If you're very direct by like, I'd love to see you again winning you're free and he doesn't and he just, I don't know. Then if he like comes around again,

you can be like, well, I don't know, you, you know. Yeah, totally. No, you can be like, hey, I'm not free. Sorry, I blew you off. I'm not free this weekend. I'm home out next weekend. And then you get together next weekend.

You know, it's like, okay, cool. Okay. But you, I mean, I don't know. Let me ask you this. like you've hung out with this guy long you've you've hung out with this guy enough to know whether like you do you want to like date this guy?

Like how many more dates do you need to go on to decide whether this is someone you want to really get to know? I mean to be honest like after our first three dates like I felt like pretty comfortable with that idea. Like I don't normally let myself get there. Normally like I'm pretty like one foot in one foot out just in the sense of like I don't like

I don't know how I even feel about this person before I like want to like pursue more and like I did allow myself to kind of pass that part of it of my head and just be more excited about the possibility of us potentially going further and potentially dating but then since things started getting kind of choppy with like our communication and just like we hadn't seen each other like I I kind of like detached from that since but that's just your ego protecting you from like feeling rejected and exactly yeah exactly that essentially i think you need to ask this guy on on a date and go on a date and then on that date if you're if it's feeling good again if the vibes are vibing and it feels like the other

dates you've had maybe you can just be more honest with them just feel like hey like i i'm i'm into this and if you feel like it's necessary to like be like hey you know i know last time like i just i don't i move like physically i move pretty slow because i like i like i like you i like you. I like what I know so far, you know, and say that, you know. Yeah. I think it's a, it's a perfect line for people, especially for men who like, it's like, ooh, you like me, you know, like, I like what I know so far. And at first you hit them with the, I like you, you know, oh, they like me. And then so far, it's like, oh, I have more to prove, you know, it's like, it kind of keeps people in check. But I really, I really like this so far. And like, this is, I've been really enjoying it. And like,

I know I've been kind of wishy-washy before, but like, I kind of want to see what. this is going and like I feel like I've been a little confusing and I feel like our communicate and just call it out just be like you know what I'm saying like that story I told you in the past like again like it couldn't have been more thrilled with my life now and and I haven't like talked to this person a long time but she sounds like she also could not be more thrilled with her life and I could have be more thrilled for her but like in an alternate universe let's say she was someone that like you know I'm still let's say I was like miserably single at this point in my life and that was like the way that relationship ended there was a

like we didn't really pursue anything right it just stopped and usually that stuff happens for a reason anyways but like you just don't want you like see it through either either have this person reject you or realize that he's not someone you mess with or like compatibility but don't just like well i'm not sure if he's supposed to reach out i'm supposed to reach out and like just figure it the fuck out just put yourself out there just ask the questions you want to answers to that's not the same as jason okay yeah i think that's definitely a good approach i was like kind of bummed if it was going to end in like him ghosting me because like i don't i don't like doing that to people and i i don't think anyone deserves it um so i think this is a good way for us to at least like

have a conversation if anything and not ghost each other yeah because it just seems like yeah the way you're describing is just like i don't know i'm kind of hanging out with this chick and she's like I don't know it's kind of cool when I see her but like I don't know I don't know and like but I have told him let's not forget I have told him maybe not like fully like listen he might hate you at this point I don't know right I don't know but that doesn't really that's not really the point is like there's enough there to from what you're telling me to know that he could be somewhat confused or just not sure how he feels or just also have his guard up a little bit because you've been hard to read.

Like, you strike me as someone who could be a little hard to read and you're like, because you have a wall up and you're our guarded and people who are guarded and who are, like, you know how to enforce a boundary that's difficult for a lot of people to do, especially people your age. And he might see that as confusing. Totally. And hard to read.

So I have gotten that in the past. So that makes that checks. Okay, cool. All right. And listen, a little rejection doesn't, you know, it's whatever it's character building i just have to like lean into it i don't like lean into it but i agree with you i think it's worth the conversation i if he likes you he will be glad you reached out and you he'll be glad that you like i remember pursuing this one girl i was telling you about and

honestly i was kind of so tired of like like what the i don't so fucking confused about her like i would text it and then i wouldn't hear from her and then she like texts me back at 11 p.m i was like what like this isn't normal like i don't like who the fuck and like you know uh yeah is that something that was important to you like when you texted someone like having like response back like within like that same day yeah but that's just like a pet peeve of mine but that that that's but my point was is that like i don't know what was going on her she had her own shit and things that was i'm sure going on in her head or who knows totally i'm just saying like this was a person i like enough to pursue a few times he has shown that

with you, right? You have taken things slow a little bit. You've had your guard up by your own admission. And he just might be having a hard time reading you. And I'm saying if he likes you, you being a little direct and assertive with like wanting to spend time with him, he will, I don't know, when this girl like did that with me, I was like, great, finally. All right, cool. She like, you know. Yeah. Some validation. Yeah. I was like, because otherwise like, I'm just, am I just playing myself by like is she just enjoying like you know i i i think a lot of guys know what it's like to be fucked with too you know just have a girl who just chasing a girl that who just likes to be chased

yeah for sure and he's just not sure if he wants to like you know yeah i think a lot of guys know what that feeling is like um and maybe he just senses that a little bit in you i think i do forget the point of the part of like validating the man to sometimes not all the time but yeah i mean Yeah. When it's when it's, I feel like when the, the feelings mutual and like you guys both have respect for each other, I think there's nothing wrong with validating a man. So thank you for reminding me of that. The let me know when you're like the Instagram not text, that's just you reading into it. He probably just, I don't know, saw an Instagram story replied to that and then just think, I don't know, he has now gotten to this like this is like a cat, like I don't know, I'm just kind of kind. He describes to his buddies, I'm kind of talking to this girl. Yeah. yeah that's kind of where we're at you know like I don't even know what to say what we're doing at this point so because you're both kind of like I don't know so just fucking put two feet in and says fuck it like I don't know someone's got to I guess yeah so all right well cool all right now let me know curious what happens yeah I'll reach out and let you guys know

if he responds if he doesn't then you'll you have your answer sounds good all right Thank you. Take care. Thanks for the call.