The Viall Files - E999 Ask Nick - Cheating Parents

Episode Date: September 15, 2025

Our first caller is having feelings for her eff buddy of 15 years. Our second caller can't make her non-boyfriend her boyfriend because he has a mullet. And, our third caller is wondering if her unconventional family is affecting her relationships?  “Not everybody has reality TV money, Nick!!!" Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff every Monday. Available wherever you get your podcasts and YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774286896 https://open.spotify.com/show/4NWA8LBk15l2u5tNQqDcOO?si=c03a23d537f94735 Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  We’ve partnered with Mint Mobile to open a hot takes hotline to hear your scorching hot opinions! Give us your hot takes, thoughts and theories and we’ll read and react to the best ones on an upcoming Reality Recap episode! All you have to do is call 1-855-MINT-TLK or, if you prefer the numbers, that’s 855-646-8855 and leave us a message. To Order Nick’s Book Go To: https://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice, send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line!  To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Quince - Go to https://quince.com/viall for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. BetterHelp - Talk it out, with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at https://betterhelp.com/viall  Caraway - Caraway’s cookware set is a favorite for a reason, it can save you up to $190 versus buying the items individually. Plus, if you visit https://carawayhome.com/VIALL10 you can take an additional 10% off your next purchase. Wildgrain - For a limited time, Wildgrain is offering our listeners $30 off the first box - PLUS free Croissants in every box - when you go to https://wildgrain.com/viall to start your subscription. Timestamps: (00:00) - Intro (00:13) - Caller One (31:03) - Caller Two (1:11:13) - Caller Three Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @justinkaphillips @the_mare_bare @dereklanerussell

How's it going? Hi, it's going well. My name is Blair. I'm 31 and I have feelings for my buddy of 15 years. Oh, boy. 15 years? Yes. How long have you had feelings?

definitely since the beginning. I was a sophomore in high school when we first met and he was a senior. And I mean, I definitely just had a really big crush on him from the beginning. And that is how I guess I lost my virginity to him. And it was always very casual from the start. But I guess when I say feelings, like it was like a crush, like an infatuation. Have you dated other people in between? Yes, yes. I've had. two, like, serious, long-term, three-year relationships in between, and then a variety of shorter ones. And then are you, like, always going back to him in between type of thing? Yes. Yeah. And it's kind of, he's in the same boat. It's like whenever he goes through a breakup, he'll reach out to me and then we'll go on a date or meet up and have like a nice 12 hours together maybe 24 hours and then we go our separate ways and then yeah and then we i guess time passes and we start dating other people have you ever told them that you have feelings yeah the last time i guess i did and maybe i did in high school i don't remember it was so long ago obviously yeah high school

doesn't count have you told them recently have you like in the past i don't know three years two years five years yeah yeah let's say not the past two or three but but in the past five, yes. So I was moving across the country about four years ago. And when we were both, you know, in the same city, I was getting ready to move. You know, he was like, we should see each other before you leave. And we were both single, obviously. So we kind of went on a string of dates.

Like it was our most number of consistent times that we would see each other probably since high school. And it started in August before I left. And then I came back in October and we saw each other then. And then November, we saw each other then. And I think in November, I said, I have a crush on you. And he said, you just moved. You know, you just moved across the country. Like, you should experience what it's like, you know, in your new city.

It doesn't like, so that's the extent of me saying how I feel. I guess I kind of just assumed he knows, but I guess. Maybe why would he? I don't know. I mean, it's been 15 years. So wouldn't you think, but I don't know. He's your age? You went to school with him? No, he was, he's year. He's older. He's old. He's , he's 33. Okay. And what's his relationship status? Like, what do you know about his dating life? So back in high school, he always said, I care less about high school. I care about like more about the past. I was like, I could give you the full history. No, I just, his adult life, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I only bring up high school just because back then he was like, I don't want a relationship.

And then once he got to college, he started to have relationships. And since then, I think he's had one longer term one that was maybe a year or two. Actually, no. In college, he had one for probably a year or two. Yeah. And then they broke up, but they're still friends. I think it was like an amical breakup. And then there was another woman that I think he dated from maybe like 2019 to 2020-ish.

but I think it was pretty serious and he definitely got his heart broken by her and then since then he's had what sounds like short what did what did the what did the girl who broke his heart look like looks wise um I think I would describe her as like maybe like middle eastern or like Indian looking okay I guess my question is you know men are visual do you feel like well what's the vibe you feel like you're getting from him in terms of how he sees you well he says stuff like um So we saw each other recently this summer, and it was our first time seeing each other in four years. Since I had moved, right after I moved, actually, I kind of found myself in a serious relationship. I dated my ex for over three years.

And then we broke up this summer right at like the end of May. Basically, I saw, it's so funny. I'm like, worried he'll know who I'm talking about, but whatever. I saw on his Instagram story that he was going to be in London. and I was also in Europe and had a layover in London. So I made a comment saying, oh, man, like, it would have been great to see you. I'm going to have a layover in London, but not enough time to leave the airport. And he, so then we started talking a little bit back and forth.

And it came out that, you know, I just went through a breakup and that I was traveling afterwards. And he also just went through a breakup also. He was, like, inspired to travel. And then he was like, well, if you want to extend your trip, like, you should, but at that point I couldn't. I had too many commitments to come back to. The flights were expensive, you know. But I looked into it. I really looked into it. I got home and I actually went back to the home city that's close to like where I grew up and where he's living. I was

visiting friends and family and we met up. Yeah, so it was our first time seeing each other in four years. And he basically says stuff like, you know, when I see you, it feels like time folds in on itself, I feel like I'm 17 again. I feel like I'm 21 again. It's like every time it just feels natural and normal. And then, and this was after we hook up. So I know he's not saying it just to like, you know, hook up with me. But he says stuff like, you're like my favorite person to do this with. Like I don't do this with anyone else. What is what is doing this? Like have sex. Hook up with. Is it just the sex part that is referring to? I mean, that's where he like. kind of explicitly said that time. But is that like the most what's the nicest thing he's ever said

to you? I mean he says I'm like he says I'm like beautiful and like I know he's attracted to me. Let's I guess like he's made that clear. He also, so I'm also Jewish and he made a comment this pastime where he was like, I don't know what it is, but I just feel like I'm so into like Jewish girls and like and a part of me is like because you know the first time we hooked up was 15 years ago. I was like, am I the like the prototype? Like, am I the reason why or was there someone before me? I don't know. Your first kind of influences a lot sometimes. I know I wasn't his first, but he was mine. Gotcha. So why haven't you gone for it? I think I'm just intimidated a little bit and I think I'm, I could be a little avoidant. I realized like my most serious

relationship before my last one, so my college relationship. I thought we were on the same page of the whole time and we, you know, had a really great beautiful relationship, great friendship. But I realized we never actually talked about the future. And I just kind of assumed. And then in my last relationship, we did talk about the future and that we like saw each other like marrying each other. And then obviously that didn't happen. We broke up. But I guess I realized that like I sometimes have a hard time like being vulnerable and putting myself out there like that. Do you guys live in the same area? No. So he's back across the country in the city I lived before, the one that's close to my hometown, and I'm still across the country. But before we met up over the summer,

it was about like maybe three weeks ago at this point, four weeks ago. I was already kind of thinking about going back to my home city, not only because of the breakup, but also just because I've been in this new city now for four years. And while I do really love it, I was kind of thinking it might be time to go back. Okay. So it was something I was already considering. So it's possible that if you shot your shot and you guys wanted to consider giving this a shot, there's a lane for you to close that distance.

Yeah. Yeah. And I definitely would be open to moving. So, yeah. And he's definitely single right now. Yes. Yes. I mean, you got to shoot your shot.

But what do I say? It's not that complicated. You know, like there's no, there's no magical thing. going to say. You know what I'm saying? It doesn't matter what you say. You have to be direct. You know what you have to go for it. You have to put yourself out there. You can't sugarcoat it. You can't say things like, I have a crush on you. That's, you know, it's not about nostalgia. You know, honestly, I don't think it's that special what he said to you in terms of like when I see you, I feel like I'm 17 again. You do elicit like a fun nostalgic feeling for him and that's great.

But I don't think that's what you're what you're looking for. But I do strongly feel like he doesn't see you in the way he you want him to see you right now it doesn't mean he can you know for you know i've talked about this a lot but you know when i first you know met my wife i didn't necessarily see her as someone who could be my girlfriend you know because of things that you know i thought were like okay well she's younger than me we live you know it's just like that's not how i saw her she had to fight you know she had to be confident in her her feelings towards me it was her confidence in belief of what she thought we could be that ultimately made me see her in a different way and gave me the confidence to do the, to pursue her, to say yes to a possibility.

I, you know, we've talked about this and joked about this show. I, she, I rejected her a few times, but it was her conviction. So my point is, is like, you know, you might be avoided and not good at confrontation or good at being a direct, but that is what it's going to take to get this, guy to like change the way he sees you because he just doesn't see you as an option to like have a relationship with he sees you is the girl he just has been sleeping with since high school off and on and yeah why he sees you differently why doesn't see you that way there's a million different reasons who knows but he just doesn't and you it's you have to act like he is missing out like he is silly you got to assume he's going to say no it

first and then you have to shut down the possibility of him having access to you and the way that he's used to having access to you. You almost have to give him the pitch. No one really wants to do that. Women want to do that even less than men to, you know, I don't want to chase and I don't want to beg for someone to date me. But like, this is a different scenario where you guys both kind of have mental barriers of how you see each other. Probably more him than you, you know. I don't know how you feel after having sex with him, but like, you know, you probably have a slightly more of an emotional attachment than he does, you know? And he obviously likes you on some level, right? And I think your pitch is like, I think we should date. I really care about you. We've known

each other for our entire adult lives. We always find our way back to each other. We've dated multiple people in between and hasn't worked out. And I want to pursue something with you because I like this about us. I like this about you. and I think you feel the same about me and I think you're just too chicken new I think you have to kind of be aggressive I think at times men really respond

to very confident aggressive women who know what they want yeah when we met each other last time like over the summer he said to me we were talking about our summer in Europe stories and like just being very open about like the other people we like hooked up with and he said to me

that like there was a girl who they like were on a walk something and she's like, so are you going to kiss me? And he's like, I guess I just like women like that. So he kind of was like explicitly telling me that he likes when a woman is upfront and says what she wants. Sure, yeah. And it's more than just being up front. I think, you know, there's a boldness. And I think there's a level of the fact that you guys have been hooking up for as long as you do. And just obviously I just met you, but you have more of a demure energy about you, which is lovely and great, you know. But I think at times with that

demure energy, I think there's a level of, whether it's outright a conscious choice or just a subconscious choice, I think there's this thought of like taking, you know, like taking it for granted. Yeah, what's the thing that stopped him from pursuing you? One, as a typical guy, he's, he's always known he could have you, you know, so I don't, and I don't think playing hard to get right now is the way, you know, I think you play hard to get after you shoot your shot, aggressively shoot your shot. You make your case. And you've got to to paint a picture that like you're going to miss out on maybe the best thing and like I don't think it's a coincidence that we always find our way back to each other and we've been spending

our entire adult lives looking for what we have right in front of us and what a cool story but like I want to date you and I want us to date and I want us to like give this a shot because honestly I'm not going to keep sleeping with you forever I you know like this is it's run its course this last time too he said something like you know I saw that you had been dating your ex like and I would see you post about him and in my back of my mind I would think wow I wonder if this is who she's going to end up with like is this who she's going to marry like will this be it he's like so you know I just feel like we'll always be in each other's lives though like he was saying stuff like that and so I'm like okay so you're paying attention

to the fact that I don't love that to be honest I don't like I don't think that says if he's imagining who you're going to marry without it really seeming to buy him and then stating that he's always going to see you in his life. Yeah, I don't know. Why does he think that? You know, why does he think he's at a position being a guy that you have slept with your entire adult life off and on? Why does he think that your future husband would be okay with that? That's true. Yeah. Yeah. I guess like in my mind, I interpret it as him hoping that that wasn't the case that I would end up with that guy. But again, I, I, maybe, I think that's a bit of a reach. It's hard to say. I think it's just as likely that,

he is he wants to make sure you're comfortable with your arrangement that you have i think a lot of guys who have fuck buddy situations like understand like i think the average adult man even the dumb ones like understand that like even in hookup culture women respond to sex a little bit different really and there's a sensitivity there and i think when when men have access to sex without commitment they want to maintain it without like the the whole like thing shit hitting the fan and feeling is getting the way of the convenience of this kind of casual sex. And I think that could, it could be him just kind of massaging that relationship to just, you know, we're cool, right?

We're cool. Everything you're telling me he has said to you kind of comes across as more, he's too in control of himself when around you. Now, again, he might just need a wake-up call. I think the thing you're going to have to practice is your delivery. and I think it's going to have to come with a level of assertiveness and confidence an emphasis on the confidence.

It's not, I really like you and I'm just like hoping you feel the same. No, I don't take the word hope out of your vocabulary. I think you're an idiot if you don't, if we don't date. I think there's a reason why you always come back to me, you know, in a way. You know, like, again, he might not feel that. I don't know. It's hard to really, based on what you're telling me,

it's hard for me to be like yeah I think but I mean he does keep coming back to you which is a nice thing and again like if you think you're his type and you're confident he's physically attracted to you there's definitely a chance there he obviously enjoys your companionship I mean that's the thing is that like there's a lot of it from your perspective it does make a lot of sense it does make a lot of it's just like what is he doing he's just like never seen you that way and he's just always accepted you as the friend he has sex with rather than a woman that is possibly his future partner. Yeah.

So I'm going back to my home city in the middle of September. And like after we saw each other for the last time, he texted me just like, oh, like, have fun with you, like safe travels back. And then we talked like a little bit back and forth. And then he liked my Instagram, you know, all these little things that you look for. He liked my Instagram story. But we don't really have that kind of relationship where we just like text back and forth. So I guess I'm wondering as it gets closer to when I'm going to be back.

in my mind there's like this concert that I'm going to in the city where I was like maybe I invite him to come with me and I guess just like how should I I feel like it should be in person right not over text or what do you think? Yeah I mean always it's always better to live with this in person for sure and you certainly no rush I guess you've waited 15 years I mean I do think there's an urgency here this might be your last window eventually he's going to meet someone and you you may too you know and And I think that's kind of part of your pitch. It's just like, are we literally never going to try?

Yeah. You know, there's been all these opportunities where we've, in between us being with other people, we've hooked up, but we've never like taking the possibility of us seriously. And honestly, I think we've been foolish. You make your pitch, but you don't beg, you know? And there's that fine line between, it's like, make your pitch once and leave it at that. It's not a constant thing. if he does give you the I don't you know blah blah and like I don't know and then you're just like well I think you're an idiot I think a little childish name calling can go a long way

with men yeah yeah um don't be you know don't be mean but I think you want to like I think you want to have a little edge to you yeah because that there's it you know like that's the one thing that like doesn't come naturally for you if there's any part of them that likes an assertive aggressive woman, that might be the thing that he's not seeing you. He's got to feel like he could lose you. He's got to feel like that this is the last chance you'll have. I think that's what's, I know eventually like this will have to end if we don't end up together because obviously my future partner will not be okay with this arrangement or maybe even friendship because there's a lot of history there, obviously. I wouldn't. In what world? Like, I'm going to get

coffee with the guy have only just fucked for 15 years. Yeah. And then I lost my virginity too. Yeah. And it's going to be like, why didn't you marry this guy? Like, why does he want to have coffee with you? Yeah. And that's the thing. You point that out to him. It's just like, we're not like, this is it, man. Like, I have no interest in being your friend. And if we don't end up together, I'm going to end up of someone. And like, we are not going to always be in each other's life. And if you think that we are, you need a, you're a little delusional. And I think that's the aggressiveness that you know you need to call him out like you know he has taken you know you for granted in a way it's you get it just to repeat it's a fine line between an assertive aggressiveness

a confident what you want this is you're not trying this out you're jumping all in and you're saying what are we doing why haven't we tried this we owe it to each other it made sense why we didn't get together in college and why you know like that would have been weird for high school sweethearts and like i don't want to get married to the guy i lost my virginity to and i'm glad we've dated other people and kept finding our way back to each other. But are you really not going to try this out? I'm perfect for you. You know, you got to like, you really got to say it like with that level of confidence. And then if he's like, hey, I just, I'm sorry I don't feel that way. You say, you know, your loss. If you change your mind, let me know. And hopefully I'm still available

and still feel the same way. But short of that, you know, this is your last shot. We can seems so easy it's not it's not easy and you will be nervous and i do think you should literally practice saying this to him and you and and be mindful of your body language and your confidence when you say this yeah yeah you know we all want we can't you know it's just the same i don't you know like the girls like the bad boys it's like it's that he wants to he's got to feel like he can lose you and now he he he just he's what he knows is that he can always come back to you. He's really taken access to you for granted.

Yeah, no, I think all this makes sense. And I think in the past, I was afraid to say any of this with the possibility of losing this or him. You're 31. Exactly, yeah. I think it's just like, you know, I do want to get married. I do want to have kids and I'm 31.

Yeah. And hopefully the part that motivates you is you telling yourself, I don't want him. him in my life at 34 years old, if he's not my boyfriend or fiance or husband. Yeah. Because, like, things aren't going great. If you're still casually hooking up with the guy you lost your virginity to in your mid-30s after another relationship that didn't go your way.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? That's your motivation to say, like, you know what? This is stupid. If I'm still fucking this guy at 35 as my fuck buddy, things have gone wrong. And I've made decisions not in my best interest. And so I want this guy out of my life if he's not going to be a part of my life. And he's not a part of your life right now.

He is, you know, he comes and goes. So I think that's true. It's not like I, I mean, I'd be losing the potential, but I'm not losing like, you're right. He's not an active part of my everyday life. Yeah. What do you mean? What potential?

Well, just that if we are meant to be together. Like, even if you're meant to be together. this relationship is an example if you don't do something about it like fate's not going to take care of it fate will only do so much i mean i'm not a big believer in fate but this is an example of someone's got to do something you know like whatever you believe in god energy they might put you in the same room together they might keep reminding you that hey it's just like i'm trying to let you know in this situation someone's got to be bold enough to fight for this relationship and it's going to have to be you. But you fight, but don't beg. So you stay at your case, you say it with

confidence. And then you say, hey, well, you know, if you change your mind, let me know, hopefully I'm still available. But like, I'm done doing whatever it is what we've been doing for the past 15 years. And I get it. Like, you know what? Last time I, you know, the crush part five years ago, whatever it was, you moved into a city. Great. You know, it was just a bullshit excuse on his part. It's not like he was doing that for you. Right. Right. You know, he'll probably use a long distance and an excuse. I, It's like, I don't want you to say, well, I would move for you. And I think you just say, I'm in the business of problem solving.

And like if we want, if we want to make it work, we'll make it work. Obviously, like you've known, I like being back here. Like, you do that for the person you care about. You really got to call him out on his, like, every guy wants to be emasculated a little bit by the right person. If he's being a little bit of a pussy to, you know, use the, you know, if he's being a little bit of a scaredy cat, he needs. you calling him out he wants to be he he needs to be checked yes i agree um and he needs to feel like you can take your power back and and this relationship would be an equal footing now he's just like he's right now he's the junior in high school who had sex with the freshmen and he's always been

like you know the upper class men in this relationship and you this is about you showing up and and like reminding them that's delusional and that's not who you are and that's not this relationship anymore. Okay. Yeah. You're right. This is helpful because I, so I've been listening to your show for a very long time, like over five years. I don't like, I don't even know. Probably listen to the first episode. I don't remember. And I knew you'd give me the blunt, straightforward what I needed to hear. Like I've been talking to my friends about this for probably 15 years, as you can imagine um what and they've given me all those types of advice and telling me what i want to hear sometimes being blunt sometimes but i needed i needed a fresh perspective and yours specifically

so thank you yeah you've done a lot of it sounds like uh mental gymnastics around some of the things he said to you and only use that as a way to continue doing what you're doing in the hopes that someday he will magically wake up and sweep you off your feet uh without you changing anything about this dynamic that's never going to happen yep that is you just read me that's accurate if anyone tells you otherwise it's never going to happen if he if he would already he would have already if he was worried that he would lose out in the possibility of spending the rest of his life with you and again like you just you need to change the way he sees you yes I will I will do that so hopefully hopefully in a couple weeks I could do that

and I'll practice. All right. Does he follow you on Instagram? Yes. Yeah. What's your content look like? Mostly just weird. I don't want to say artsy pictures, but like pictures of the ground or the sky.

Like I'm not really posting that many selfies or anything like that. But I did this past week and he did like that. Yeah. I'm not saying like slutt it up or anything. But like don't be afraid to look like a baddie on your Instagram. You know what I'm saying? Like he just, you know, he needs to see you in a different life. Yeah.

And he needs to see you in a way, like, man, she's like good. You know, it's like, yeah. Well, I, please keep you posted. I want to know what happens. Yeah. No, definitely we'll follow up. Hopefully, hopefully with exciting news, but we'll see. Either way, I'll definitely let you know.

Most likely at first, he's not going to be like, you know what, thanks for saying. Let's date. Yeah, yeah. You're going to have to give him the, well, your loss. and just kind of be a little bitchy, I guess, if he, you know, not like, it's like, again, it's such a fine line between, okay, well, you're an idiot without being, you know, without like losing your shit or, you know, it's just all about you being confident. It really is about you being confident in how you feel and that he's blind if he doesn't see what you see.

I will rehearse and use confidence and slight fitchiness. Nothing too crazy, but a little bit. You're it, you know, and he needs to wake the fuck up. You're lucky that, like, fate has allowed you to keep me in your life. But, like, this is it, man. Yeah, I like that. Well, I'm excited to find out. Me too.

Either way, yeah. All right. We'll take care. Thank you so much. All right, my pleasure. Best of luck to you and Natalie and the show and your baby. And, yeah, I've been a fan for a long time, like I said. like even watching since the Bachelor days.

So this is really cool. So thank you. Thank you for saying. I appreciate it. Thanks for listening and good luck. Hi. Thanks. Take care of a bye.

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to you with a licensed mental health professional and you could be getting the therapy that you've been waiting for and no time. It is the world's largest online therapy provider in the world. BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com slash V-I-A-L-L. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash V-I-A-L-L. How's it going? Good. How are you? Good. What's your name? My name is Sydney. I'm 24. And how can I help, Sydney? Okay, so I can't commit to my non-boyfriend, boyfriend because I don't like his haircut, which is a mullet.

Okay. How long have you been hanging out with your non-boyfriend, boyfriend? About five months. Okay. And like you're being serious and he wants to date you. He's obsessed with he loves you. He's like dying to be your boyfriend. I get that vibe.

I don't know. I mean, maybe that's something that you can figure out or you are going to have follow questions that I imagine about. Sure. But like we haven't talked about it, but it's getting to the point where I'm like, I have to refer to him as my boyfriend or otherwise people are like what are you doing all right well what is your dynamic look like how do you mean dynamic like what do we do what is yeah like what is you've been dating this guy for five months uh yeah are you having sex are you guys playing

house made each other's families and friends are you guys only hooking up on the weekends has any of you said hey like what are we or I want to I want more and has that never happened like What does this look like? I got you. I'll give you the debrief. Okay, so we started seeing each other five months ago. We met on apps just looking for something casual. We met up.

It was great. How old is he? It was casual. He's 30. Okay. So it was just like hooking up the first couple times, but it was going really well. So we just kept seeing each other. Then like a month into that, I went over to his place and all of his roommates knew my name.

And it like, look, he freaked me out. So I was like, what? like did you tell them that I'm like how do they all know my name like did you tell them that i'm your girlfriend and he was like oh my god you're so 24 like only 24 year olds freak out about being called someone's girlfriend which was like okay fair but like i'm i'm what are the vibes here and so and when you what do you mean by freak out like what were you like first of all why why was it weird to you that people knew your name what did you want to be referred to as the girl i don't know i was just like oh my god you're telling your roommates about me like they know

who I am. He invited you over. I know. Like, I always go over to his place. I'm frequently there. Like, look, I know this is a little. But are you saying, like, you came over to his house and they're all like, oh, what's up, Sid? You know, like, was it like that energy? And then you were just like, I walked up and his, like, two of his roommates were smoking on their patio. And he was like, or they were like, oh, hey, like, what's up? And I was like, hi. Yes, I am just here to, like, fuck your roommate, basically. Like, hope that's cool. And then. And I'm like, so they know we're just in here hooking up. Like, I know they don't think we're just in here playing board games.

Like, I know they know what we're doing. And part of that makes me feel self-conscious because then I'm like, oh, I got to like, we got to play music. Like, they already know what we're doing. We can't like let them hear all of our business, you know. Okay. I mean, off the bat, I think it's more of an ick that he's a 30-year-old with two roommates than he has a mullet, but so be it.

We can circle back to that. Okay. Okay. So he was like, you're like, whatever. all good. We kept seeing each other though. We like went on like a date, like went to a movie and a dinner, which I was like, okay, this is like, he like asked me if I wanted to go. And I was like, I do like hanging out with you and I do like spending time with you. So yeah, why not? While we were on a date, I did like, like, just something about like being on a date with him. I was just like,

this is weird. But like I like spending time with him. It was honestly because we ran into one of my friends and I had to be like what do I introduce him as like my boyfriend or like this is my friend so I just blacked out and didn't introduce him at all he stood behind me like the Simon and Garfunkel album the whole time and then I walked away and was like I feel really bad I didn't introduce you and it's totally fine like you don't need to freak out like you it doesn't matter like you don't have to introduce me to your friends if you don't want to so that was the first time we went out and then we went on like a trip together like a weekend trip like a three day we got like an Airbnb and then like I went on vacation he went on vacation so we didn't

see each other for two weeks and then while we were both gone I was like I do kind of miss him like I do like hanging out with him did you hear from him at all yeah like we texted like almost every day do you know if he's hooking up with other people I know he's not you know he's he said he's not I mean I trust him and did he offer that information or did you have to ask I didn't ask. What happened was, this was a couple weeks ago, someone who I was seeing casually, like, in the winter was like, hey, I'm back in your city. Do you want to see each other again? And I was like, let me ask the boy. Let me ask the dude. So I was like, hey, this is going on. Like, what are the vibes? Like, do I tell him? Like, yeah, like, whatever. It would be fun. Or do you want me to tell him? You're basically like, do you care if I go fuck this guy or is there something more to us? Yes, exactly. Okay.

And he was like, look, I don't want to tell you not to. Like, I don't want to be the reason not to. But also, like, then I mentioned, I was like, it would just be like a little bit of fun. Like, he's only in town for a couple of days. And he was like, okay, well, I feel better that you're saying it would just be a little bit of fun. Like, he was like, if you said it was going to be anything more than that, then I would feel bad. So then that makes me think like. What does feel bad mean?

Yeah, like that I didn't follow up because it was like cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, like whatever you say, dude. Yeah, I mean, I don't love that for you. You don't love it? Well, what I'm hearing is, well, I'm glad that you don't want to go be his girlfriend because then I don't get to have sex with you anymore. Right. As opposed to being like, no, like, I really like you and like, yeah, I would, you know, yeah, you're your own person. You're an empowered woman. Like, I'm not, I can't stop you.

But if you're giving me the option, not. to share what I have with you, I don't want you to. Yeah. Now, maybe, like, I don't know, 30-year-old guy in 2025, maybe he just doesn't have the guts to, like, man up and say something like that in this day and age. And maybe men, I feel like a lot of, you know, I do, I say, I say this like every week. Now, I just think men 35 and under don't really know how to be assertive

without being pricks, you know, they don't know how to be charismaticly confident and you know state what they want because they're so you know it's like you have two type of guys now you have these like red pill alpha toxic males or these like beta boys who like are just like so afraid to like man up well the beta boys are afraid of being perceived as the alpha males I think which is why they swing so hard in the other direction yeah yeah that's what I'm saying but they don't like that find that balance I'm like you can be both a respectful king and an assertive confident who like women see as like this is a guy who knows what he wants and you know I'm not a woman but like the women I know like assertive confident men who want to kind of stake their claim so to

speak you know last time I checked with my women friends you all want a guy who says no I don't want you being with anyone else that's fair I want you and I want you for me and then you have the right to say well no sure you know certainly but yeah he was more like well you know, you know, if you just suck his dick, I guess I'm cool with it. You know, like, that's not the energy I want for you. Right. So. Well, I think, like, I think he's not, I don't think he's ever going to be upfront with me and be like, I want to date you because I freaked out about being called his girlfriend earlier in the relationship. Yeah, I disagree. Okay. I mean, first of all, if that's the case, he's like, I don't know, got some growing up to do. Listen,

I, I understand from both your points of view that, like, yeah, dating culture has become terrified of labels. Right. And so now you have these situations right now. But I think people who are going to end up together, they're not basing off like, well, I can never, I don't want to be. She freaked out when we first met. It's been five months.

And like, I don't know what you guys have been doing over these past five months. But hopefully you've been building a rapport and a comfort level with each other that you didn't have in the first couple of weeks of hooking up. Whether you have a label or not, you know, you should, you should both in theory feel like after five months there should be you know again that comfort level that assumption of spending time together that you know um without the constant like i don't know if he's going to call today or tomorrow whether you guys are acknowledging that comfort level or not hopefully it's there yeah i think it's there i mean like we definitely text regularly and like uh this is where

why i'm like he's the non-boyfriend boyfriend because i feel like we're doing all the boyfriend things like texting about how your day's going like when I can't see him for a weekend like facetiming and like catching up like he started a new job this week and so like he was like really tired so like instead of like hanging out in his place we just like when got dinner I was like one of the first times that we had like really like gone or just like not gone to one of our places and like we're just getting dinner and whatnot and so you actually had a date or have you only had a date yeah or Have you only in Netflix and chilled? No, we've had dates.

Like, we'll go, like, to a movie and a dinner, like, pretty regularly. Okay. Like, yeah. What's the most relationship thing you guys have done? I mean, we've taken two weekend trips. Okay. So I feel like that's pretty relationship-y. Yeah.

Who initiated that? How did that go? Who initiated it? Yeah. More, but how did it go? He did. And how did it go? Yeah.

Both went good. I mean, one was last weekend. And, like, we were just, like, at a hotel. like swimming at the pool and I'm like this is sweet like he is sweet he is really nice to me like maybe I do like him like uh yeah why don't you just say you like him you know uh rather than maybe because because I'm a coward Nick I I know why okay I know what I'm scared the well for and it lets you know your original question well I'm glad we get into the truth it's certainly not the moller you know like no we can of course um when is it ever yeah yeah

Yeah. Because like, you know, that, you know, just to clarify, that is a pet peeve. You can always cut his hair and clearly hasn't stopped you from doing whatever you've been doing already. You don't, you know, he has cut his hair. He has made an attempt. It is still a mullet. That's fine. Whatever. Let me ask you this. Has he, does he still, is he still giving you the same energy, which is like that, oh, of course, that you're such a 24-year-old. Like, does he still from time to time make some of those condescending comments about your. age or do you feel more like his equal over the course of the five months? No, definitely more like equals and I feel like the only or like I honestly feel like I'm more condescending to him

about his age than he is to me about mine. I feel like he rarely brings it up if ever. I bring it up because he like struggles with technology sometimes and I like give him shit for it. Cool. Okay. So you're you're comfortable giving him shit. Yeah. You're not okay. Very comfortable giving him

shit like I feel like the 24 year old comment makes him seem like pretty bro-y and like I don't know I just we have a good rapport like yeah I would say we're pretty like joky with each other like I told him this weekend I didn't like the mullet and he dunked me in the pool like uh we're goofing around okay so what do you want to do about it uh I don't know that's why I'm here because I'm like on one hand like I do like him and I do miss him when he's not around and ultimately like I didn't hook up with that guy when he was in town because I didn't want to I was like I even though like the guy my my boy was like oh like you can do whatever you want like just let me know you decide like whatever like I ultimately was like it's so easy and like we have such a good thing going right now

and like it's just like it's so easy to be around him and it's so easy to talk to him like why would I want to do anything that would potentially compromise that and like yeah hooking up with another guy would probably be a bit of fun, but like, I'm having so much fun currently that, like, again, I wouldn't want to do anything to compromise that. And I told him that. And he was like, well, you wouldn't be compromising that. Like, as long as you're honest and up front with me, like, everything is like a conversation and we can, like, talk about it. Which then I ultimately decided, like, I didn't want to hook up with the other guy. And I told him that. And he was like, okay. Like, I could tell that he was trying, like, not to have a reaction

about it um and he was like well i hope that was like an easy conversation and that the other guy like was chill when you told him or anything so what are you afraid of uh how to sum it up i don't know i think like i haven't really been in like a long consistent relationship before i would say like five months is probably like the most consistently i've like seen a guy Okay. And my life. Well, I mean, I don't know if you're behind your peers, but from my point of view, I think, but what do you want, what do you want for yourself romantically in life, you know,

I don't, I mean, I do want to, like, get into a relationship? Like, do you want to get married and settle down and have a family? Yeah. Yeah, eventually. Okay. And when, when you say eventually, what is that, what does that kind of look like? Like, probably like early 30s, like down the line. I'm like, I don't want it to be, something I prioritize right now. This year I was mostly like, okay, I want to just like prioritize like getting in a relationship and like getting experience with that because I haven't been in a relationship

before. Have you dated around at least? I mean, yeah, like, you know, let's assume that like you shoot your shot, you guys date and you're like, oh, fuck it. I mean, I love this guy and, you know, you date for three or four years. You're what, you're 27, 28 then. Then you get engaged. And this is the last guy, you know, short of you guys like, you know, breaking up once.

And like, and he ends up being the last guy you hook up with. You feel like you've had some you've had your fun no like I don't and I feel like that's part of why I'm like gun shy to get in like a full bone blown relationship right now because like I still like you know why I like to have a little bit of fun like I'm still like in that like a relationship isn't something I want to prioritize right now and like also like I don't know if I would like want my like potential person to be someone who like we started dating because like we were hooking up like because it was supposed to be a one night's. No one cares how you met, certainly your relationship. I know, I know, but like, I care. And, like, then I got to tell my mom and be like, this is what was happening. I'm from Kentucky. Why does mom need to know the details? Because she's going to ask.

Like, she's got to know everything. I've been dating him for five months and we built a relationship and, like, we kept hanging out and I liked them more and more, and now we're boyfriend and girlfriend. Okay, fair. Like, everyone wants to know the meat cute. and then I got to be like... We met on the apps. That's what people do.

I don't know. I know. Heavy listed, if you're holding out for some meat cute that like is worthy of a rom-com, good luck. You're right.

You're right. This is fair. I know I'm like holding him to like an impossible standard as I do with all guys. And like this is what it comes back to is like I have a standard that he'll have a specific haircut

and now the guy in front of me does not have that haircut and I want him to change. Like that's like... Well, listen, And as a potential girlfriend, you can, you know, Natalie, I grew a mullet for Natalie because she's like, I'm kind of into it. So like, oh, fuck it.

And I sported a mullet for like six months, kind of, you know, I do things that my wife finds attractive. I mean, now that I'm married, I only do, you know, it's just like, oh, sure, like, what, like what turns you on? Like, short of it being, like, me wearing a clown suit, like, I'm down to try it out, you know, I want her to be attracted to me. I do things for her, right? Like, I'm, you know, I am not.

looking good for other women. I'm trying to look good for her, right? And vice versa. I think it's fair that you're, you know, you don't want to prioritize a relationship right now. All I'm saying is the old guy here who's like the big playing big brother to you right now is like time flies. And you never know when you're going to meet the right person. And like you need to get it out of your head, how you're going to meet this guy. You need to get out of your head all the like pet peeve and trivial like all the little, like I mean, do you care about him? Does he care about you? Does he treat you with respect? Do you guys have fun together like do you see you know like are you attracted to each other like you know people have a really hard time finding that shit you know you know it's like so i wouldn't be so

quick to like you know like there's no guarantees like even if he fucks you up a little bit emotionally and breaks your heart in two years it might be worth it like it might you know like that's a that's a right of passage so to speak what you don't want to be is what so many people your age are turning into is like these professional casual daters who don't really know how to be in relationships who don't know how to like you know make sacrifices and compromises for someone they care about and that's what it takes to be in a relationship like relationships have turned into these like self-serving you know i just want someone to hang out with me at my convenience and like pop in and out when i want you know and it's both men and women are doing it and like this is not how it works

And if you are someone who wants to someday settle down and get married, like, and you think this is a guy, you really enjoy his company and you start to care about, and you have fun together and you have great sex, like, it might be worth a shot. There's no guarantees. Like, you know, you're not going to propose to him and say, hey, like, let's get married next week. You're just like, you know, but I don't want to keep doing this. And I think it's stupid for us, like, you know, at the end of the day, if another guy calls

and says he wants to have sex with me, and we're just doing the same thing, maybe I should take him up on it, you know, and vice versa. But if we're going to like, you know, investing our time into each other, why don't we go for it? Like, I don't know, we might break up.

I don't know. I might fuck you up. You might fuck me up emotionally. I don't know. But in the meantime, let's go. You know, in three years, you're going to be 27, and then you'll be three years away from 30.

Yeah. And I don't know how you feel about 30, but a lot of women have strong opinions about that, you know? It'll be fun to be 30. Okay, good. I'm glad you have the perspective. And I think too many people today are, you know, they're like powerpointing their lives in a sense of like,

and it just, shit doesn't work out that way. And there's just a lot of lonely 30-year-olds out there who kind of had too much casual fun in their 20s and really don't know how to commit or make sacrifices and be in relationships. And I'm not, you know, I'm not saying, You know, you can't fuck around all your 20s. Right.

But just saying, if you like him, you should try. You can always break up. You can always break up. This is true. Follow question. Okay, so he's coming over in like two hours to like we're eating lunch together. Okay. Well, I'm working from home.

Then he's going out of time for two weeks. That sounds like some boyfriend and girlfriend shit. I know. This is the thing. This is the thing as we do shit like this. And then I got to be like, people are like, oh, who is the dude? And I have like, for like three months, they just referred to him as Mr. Friday night and didn't tell any of my friends his name. Because I was like, what are we doing?

Like, I don't know. But then I got to tell people his name because we're going out of town together. And what if he kidnaps me? But he won't kidnap me because he's such a nice guy. And like, like, I'm not actually concerned about that. But I'm like, I feel like I should tell people his name before I just go out of town with my mystery man. I think it's fun the way you met. If you ask me, you know, and you, you know, it takes so.

I mean, if you heard, if you ever listen to this show, I always talk about how long it takes to build emotional connection. The fact that you guys hooked up fairly quickly and he kept coming back for more, definitely is a good sign that he likes you, right? Yeah. Assuming he's telling the truth and the fact that you have been the only woman he's sleeping with. And is he the type of guy that if you wanted to sleep with more women, could he? I believe so. Okay. He's been around the block.

All right. But I say with all respect. No, yeah. You're like, my man can sling it. There's a reason we kept hooking up. But I, you know, I can say as a guy, that that's a great sign that he does like you. It's very easy for men to have sex with women and stay emotionally disconnected, especially early on.

And the thing that keeps him coming back is the fact that they love having sex with you. But over the course of five months, that's enough time to be like he is, he's become a part of your life. him coming over for lunch before he leaves for two weeks is making sure he gets some quality time with you. And now, are, is the expectation you guys going to have sex or is it going to be just lunch? I don't know how long his lunch break is. He just started a new job. So it might just be lunch. It might just be lunch. Okay. So like the fact that he is is coming over to see you, you know, speaks to that. This is a guy who does care about you and likes you. And like, that's, you know, that's hard to find these days. People, you know, I don't have you looked

out there, but a lot of lonely people complaining. about how miserable it is and how challenging it is to find like someone they like or you're even interested in. Right. So are you asking me to shoot your, I don't know if now is the time

to shoot his shot over lunch. Well, like he's about to go out of town so then do I try to get it in before he leaves for two weeks? What is he doing? Are you afraid he's going to go like whore around? No. No, he's just like going to stay

at his grandparents' lake house in Idaho. So I don't think there's a lot of whoring around in Idaho happening. Well, then there's no real urgency. I mean, I don't know. I don't know your rapport or comfort level. Like, this might be something you want to practice. I don't know.

This is true. I love to practice. Great. Well, if you like to practice, that I wouldn't rush it. But I think it's going to, I think when you do it, you need to be assertive and confident and you need to be, you know, he does, he is older than you, right? So like, you and don't allow him to, I guess, talk down to you in a way where he's just like you're young, you know, he's going to, he might make excuses, but you're, oh, you know, I don't

This is a guy, it sounds like he could be totally down. But I don't, you don't say, what are we? Honestly, with what I'm hearing from you, it would make a lot of sense for you. You could even do it at lunch, but I don't know. Like, maybe you want to practice, but like, you could just be like, oh, by the way, I started telling people you're my boyfriend. We're together. Yeah. You have, you have that kind of playful report, it sounds like, where you could just, like, as a woman, it would be kind of a potential turn on for him for you to just be a little assertive and aggressive and being.

And, like, this, we're dating. This is true. I have thought about just referring to him as my boyfriend. Like, this weekend we were checking into the hotel. I was, like, passing the key out. And I almost referred to him, like, oh, I have to give it. Like, my boyfriend has the key to the, like, hotel person. And the part of me was like, I maybe should have just fucking done that.

Yeah. I mean, you could. And just been, like, seeing what he done. I just don't, whatever, however you say it, you don't say it. you don't say it or you're asking his permission to define the relationship and give him all the power by saying, you know, what do you think we should do? I'll do whatever you want. And if you're not ready, that's totally cool, man. Like, if you, if you, if you, if you get an answer you don't want, I think you have to bluff, or at least bluff. But I honestly wouldn't bluff. I would

just be serious and be like, well, then we're going to stop doing this. Okay. Because honestly, like, unless, you know, it's not about the whole, like, well, I'm not ready to prioritize relationships. I've been able to run a business, grow an empire, all while having a girlfriend. And honestly, having, having a girlfriend and a fiance and a wife has, like, made me exponentially, like, I think more successful, you know, on things like that. When you find the right person, that person, like, you know, giving you confidence when you need to pick me up, supports you. This is the one person who believes in you when you feel like no one else does and things like that. I don't know what are you what do you what do you have any like when you say I don't want a priority as a relationship right now what are you giving up by having him in your life right now

like what are you not able to do like what sacrifices do you feel like you're going to have to make if if next week he's your boyfriend yeah I'm just like I'm like right now at the point I am in my career a lot of my time is not my own and so like my schedule is not really at my own liberty. And so I feel like the hours of the day that I do have for free time, I have to be like a little selective with it. Like I am very social and like I see a lot of my friends and I feel bad sacrificing the like time I have with my friends. Let me ask you this. Do you, if all that was different is now you guys have the label and the emotional security that like this is something we're going to start actually like investing in and seeing if there's a future here. Why do you,

Why does anything else have to change right now? You mean if I had more time? Like if he was your boyfriend last week, you're acting like he couldn't go to grandma's for two weeks without you. You're right. You know, you don't have to be the couple that is like inseparable, you know? Like you guys can make your own rules.

Like every relationship's different. You know, nothing has to change other than, you know, and you could say that. You know, it's just like, to be clear, I don't want anything to, like, really change right now. I mean, if we do do this, I hope that we continue to grow our relationship. And I don't know, we'll always check in and communicate in terms of, like, how much more time you want to spend. Obviously, I'm very, like, invested in my career right now.

I don't know what he does, but I'm assuming he is a well. And I want to, I just want someone who supports me in my career right now. And I want us to, like, continue to take trips and time to time. maybe maybe things will change but like obviously you know my friends are super important to me I want a boyfriend it doesn't mean I want to like drop everything else in my life yeah you know you don't have to do that like you can strike a balance and you just have to talk to him about what your guys expectations are in this relationship right and I feel like he does like I feel like he does respect or he knows that I'm very busy and he like respects that like one time we were supposed

to hang out and then one of my like close friends was having like a really bad day and I was getting coffee with them and then I ended up like spending the rest of the day with them and I texted him and I was like hey I'm gonna like rain check today like I need to just like hang out with my buddy and he told me later he was like I thought that was like so hot just like you're a good friend and like you try to like be there for people and so which in turn like makes me like him more that he is like respectful and understands that like over time hopefully it could just probably happen organically that you'll this you know like you're either going to like enjoy spending more and more time together or you're not and again like six months from now one you

you could change how you feel about him and vice versa right the only real risk as long as you guys just communicate and are mature about this is the risk of like breaking each other's hearts which fucking sucks and it's terrible and it's you know but it also is a great lesson if you're willing to learn and you can learn a lot about yourself dealing with like that type of emotional tragedy and like you will be stronger for it and you know whatever you know you'll figure your shit out but like eventually you're going to have to date someone to know what you like in a relationship and i don't if i'm you i don't want to be the 30 year old person who doesn't really know what it's like to like have to make compromises and sacrifices in a relationship and that's not you know you're not

at a position if he's your boyfriend tomorrow to make the same type of compromises and sacrifices i'm making today in my relationship as a married man with a kid, you know, but you can still be boyfriend and girlfriend and you can still make some, like you made a compromise by not sleeping with that guy already. You made a sacrifice. You know, you communicating with him, hey, can I rain check? Can I see my friend? That's, is a, is a, in some ways, there's a little bit of a, you know, it's like, it's, it's that expectation of having to check in with someone. You know, why so many guys out there who are fuck boys who don't want a relationship right now is because they don't want to have to answer to anyone right they don't want to like it's like yeah we can have sex but if i don't call

you tomorrow you don't get to say you don't get to ask why if you don't hear for me for three weeks you don't get to ask why i don't owe you anything because i told you i don't want a girlfriend right now you know what i'm saying like you know like so being in a relationship is just having expectations of each other and you guys already have some kind of expectations of each other so you to for for you guys to play games with each other and just pretend and not communicate like what you both want to work towards is silly right this is true never thought i would take advice from a man on a podcast these are all good points nick yeah well i'm sorry it had to be me it's okay um these are like but i'm like you're right

This is all true. Like, and I feel like these are things that, like, other people in my life have been, like, politely telling me or being, like, like, rolling their eyes and I keep being, like, my non-boyfriend boyfriend, like, and they're sick of hearing me use that term, but I don't know what else to refer to him as. And a little, yeah, like, you know, this is me in the nicest possible way saying you need to, you need to grow up a little bit. That's fair. Yeah. And so does he. Like, honestly, like, 30 years old and two roommates is a, it's not something. He just moved to my, I mean, that's fine, but I get what you're saying.

I hope he aspires to grow out of that situation. I think, yeah, he does. Before he moved into this place, he had his own place. Okay, okay. I'm not trying to defend him. No, that's fine. I think it's fine of your 30 and you have two roommates. It's okay, you know, I'm not saying it's not a, it's not everyone has reality TV money.

I hear you, but I just, I hope there needs to be a level of discomfort. has with it. Okay. Okay. I can hear that. You know, as opposed to, like, this is awesome. I feel like I'm in college still. You know what I'm saying? Like, eventually some of his friends should get on his nerves when it comes to, like, living with them, you know? Just, there should be a level of, I definitely, like, it's fine for now, but this is not where I want to land any, you know. And I, I'm anxious and excited about, like, being friends with my friends and not living with them. Right. You know. Right. Yes, I understand this. I mean, listen, I didn't, I think it was about 30 when I had,

you know, last time I had a guy roommate, 31. Two is still aggressive. 32? No, I said two, just two roommates. Oh. Is it like a major, is it like a major city that's just a crazy rent? Yeah. One of the big ones.

One of the big ones. Okay, well, that's a little bit more understandable. Yeah. Yeah, I hear you. It should still bug him a little bit. Yeah. Okay. I'll check in with him.

I'll be like, does it bug you that you have, two roommates. I'm kidding. I won't do that. I don't want to put any idea. Eventually, it's a good question. Yeah. I'm, like, I'm already fighting the mullet battle. Like, I can only, like, I have to, like, climb one mountain at the time. Okay. Yeah, and just have some, like, I'd be like, I think you're my boyfriend. I'm not going to make you get a haircut yet. It's fine for now. Like, you can have some fun with it. I don't know. Test them out, but. Well, so, like, he did get a haircut, and then he was like, he just cut it shorter. And he was like, it's not a mullet. It's just a little mulety. And I was like, babe, that is a mullet.

You calling each other, babe? Yeah. Okay. If he rejects your request to define this relationship, then I think you really need to point out, be like, well, then you're an idiot. You're calling me, babe. But fine. You definitely need to shut it down, though. Okay. Like, immediately. Like, figure it out. Yeah. Like, when you say immediately, you mean in two hours when he comes over for lunch. No, no, no, whenever you, if you, if you, if you, if you shoot your shot then, whenever you do, if you, like, from everything you're telling me, this shouldn't be like a big thing.

This should be like, all right, someone had to do it. I'm going to do it. Let, we're dating. We're together. You're my, you're my boyfriend. Yeah. If he's like, I don't know if I want a girlfriend right now, if he gives you that shit or some version of that, you're just like, cool, then I'm out.

Yeah. Because like this, like, whatever this is, this is you you you you are my boyfriend whether you whether you want one or not you have a girlfriend and so if you don't want a girlfriend then you don't want me or this and i'm and i'm out yeah and you need to like be very confident and and treat him like he's insane and and and the nicest calm as possible way right it's you're chill as fuck you're just like well you're kind of an idiot and i think you you know don't call me again i guess you know because um And he will.

Yeah. No, I, like, I'm like, it is very relationship-y and, like, I don't think it'll go. Like, I think he'll be like, oh, okay, cool. Like, you're chill with that. Like, I think he's waiting for me to, like, drive the car. Okay. Well, then go ahead and drive it. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's like, I feel like I got to put the key into ignition a little bit. Okay. Well, let me know when he says, yes. I look forward to. Oh, hopefully. I would love to give you an update. All right.

Well, good luck. Thank you. We will see how it goes. Maybe you just do it at lunch. I don't know. I mean, if you're that confident, and I think you should be, it sounds like you have every reason to be.

Right. Then... Right. Like, his mom is asking my zodiac sign because she wants to know, like, what the vibes are. Like, that to me, I'm like, okay.

I like when I say any fact of information, you like roll your eyes a little bit. Yeah. I mean, because again, like, you know, and I say this in the nicest possible way, you're a 24-year-old woman. who's giving a little bit of 17-year-old girl. That's fair.

Yeah. And I think it's, you know, it's fine, it's whatever. But, like, you have all the qualities of a 24-year-old-old woman. And you're just choosing to, like, downplay where you're at in life. And, you know, you're playing, you know, and it's like, that's what I mean, like, you know, grew up a little bit. And, again, like, you can have a boyfriend. You can break up.

And if I'm you, I would rather be 26 with an ex-boyfriend. and that lived experience, and then knowing that, like, you can, you know, date other guys or whatever, tend to have not actually try with this guy and not know what it's like to make those types of, you know, compromises and sacrifices for a relationship. And then, you know, get close to 30 of being like, I've never actually had a real boyfriend. Like, if I'm you, I wouldn't want that for myself. Yeah, that's true. And I definitely agree, especially when you spell it out like that.

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com slash v i a l or you can use promo code v i a l at checkout how's it going hi nick i'm margaret i'm 26 and i'm wondering how my unconventional family is affecting my ability to be happy in a relationship i don't know tell me about your family and why it's you think it's stopping you all right so i'll start a little bit from the beginning um well not the beginning but um sometime in high school i came to the conclusion and i found evidence that my dad is not only cheating and being unfaithful with my mom but also ended up being gay which i'm a hashtag ally so just wanted to set the record straight um but like it definitely added some elements of just fear and doubt in every single relationship since then when did this happen so freshman year of high

school i was actually in a relationship at the time i ended up being in that relationship for four years but um i mean like your dad coming on is gay and finding out i'm assuming he's cheated on your mom with a man? Yeah. So that's where I was getting to. It's like that happened a freshman year of college. And I was in a relationship at the time. So that person was there for me pretty heavily at the time, which was nice.

But yeah, I found out freshman year kind of took it to my mom. She pretty much knew and was like, yeah, I kind of had some suspicions. But both my parents were teachers and on a teacher's salary. It just really wasn't doable to kind of get out. at the time to her. So from the moment that I kind of suspected it, I kind of just kept looking for more reasons for her to get out. So anytime I'd see another piece of evidence or like have more suspicions,

I'd be like, mom, come on. Like, now's your chance. Are your parents still together? No. They ended up finally divorcing with a sophomore year of college. Okay. And when you say unconventional family, you mean just my dad came out as gay and I wouldn't call that like an unconventional I mean it's something that happened yeah it's not

like what your family done you know when you when you said unconventional family dynamic I was like are you guys like in a circus or something or you know like are you have like a devout you know crazy religion where you're just like your family's like helicopter parents like listen the reality is is like how old your dad 50 something 55 right so like I'm sure for a lot of gay people, it's still not easy to come out. It could still be a challenge depending on where you're from or who your family is and yada, yada, yada, but certainly as a 55-year-old man, I'm sure it was much more difficult back then.

And I think a lot of gay men just, like, were very closeted and just got married because they thought they should and yada, yada, yada, and, you know, your dad obviously suppressed his feelings and whatever. But, like, eventually your dad could no longer do it. Like, the sad also reality is, is that people cheat, right? It's not okay. It's terrible. It can be very destructive and damaging for a relationship.

But like sometimes when people cheats, it feels a lot less fucked up than in other situations people cheat. And even like how, you know, how they cheat can also be like a fucked up thing, but like maybe not that it's ever okay to cheat, right? But like whether, you know, you're gay in your closet and you haven't been able to properly deal with that, again, doesn't make it okay cheating and doesn't justify cheating. I guess in a way it like humanizes that person because it's not like they were just like callous and bored. I just wanted to fuck someone else and I don't like you anymore or whatever. Right. I guess I only bring that up because you reference, oh, well, like, ever since that happened, it's affected my, how I've tried, like, I guess, sure, I get it, but why are you making

your dad's sexuality and his, in his very understandable struggle with how he went about his life, which also, by the way, is the reason for your existence. Absolutely. And then turn that into an excuse for you to, like, you know, not ever trust any guy you date. I mean, listen, whether your dad came out as gay and cheated on your mom, the world is littered with examples that, you know, people are unfaithful. You definitely, like, it's always a risk when you get into a relationship and are vulnerable and give your heart to someone that they could break it.

That is a risk of doing that. Yeah, I can explain a little bit more. So I think the question is a little hard. It comes off a little bit, maybe unclear because there's really no way to, like, sum it up into one question or one statement. And I would say that for me, it's complicated. It's not even about him coming out as gay. I think the problem is, was that he never really did come out. So, like, he's never really taken accountability, never admitted anything.

It just one day, like, he had, he had multiple opportunities to be very truthful to me. I had brought it to him and said, hey, what's this? and he was just like, I don't know, he just denied it. And I just... That's how you addressed it? Sorry? That's how you went about it? Well, okay.

It's actually kind of wild. So I found like a letter that was written to him and it was clear that it was mail-to-mail type of thing. So I ran inside and I went to tell my mom about it just because, again, like, we had a very, like, our family dynamic before that was already pretty rough. like nobody like he didn't get along with anybody he didn't make an effort um he really didn't want to be involved in our lives as much as like my mom did my mom kind of like solely took care of us like he was there he had a job and contributed in all those things but anytime we were home like

it was walking in on eggshells like it was like I'd be yelled at for any little thing if I spilled water like it was and I understand it now from a from a perspective of I'm a lot older and wiser but it's still hard because again the lack of accountability has really, I think, led to this issue in my life. So getting back to what eventually happened. So I found this like letter and I went inside to tell my mom, because again, I was looking for reasons. I'm like, mom, like, here's your opportunity. Like, I knew she was unhappy too. And I'm like, you shouldn't have to live your life like this. Like, I don't think anybody should. And so I brought it to her and she goes, okay, send me, send me a picture of it. And I think I Freudian slipped and I sent it to

my dad. Okay. And like, so in that moment, I had to take responsibility of like my own action and, you know, follow up the picture with like, what is this? Like, I had no other choice. So I went about it that way. Like, instead of being like, oops, whatever, uh, I just, I said, what is this? And he just denied it. And he's like, I don't know. And then never spoke about it again. And I'll say everything my family doesn't like to talk about things once they've happened. So like, it's been this like, just kind of like, okay, I guess we'll move on. with normal life and I would have if he came to me and said hey I'm gay I would have been like okay I'm I'm so happy you shared that with me but it was like the lying the deceit I found

it so much later that he was sneaking around like with you know friends and like things like that we didn't know about people started not speaking to my mom because they knew and didn't tell her like there's so much deceit that like he never ever admitted or never took accountability for that like i feel like i just have this like fear i think my fear isn't of trusting i have a weird ability to trust still but i think that's my choice right like i think trusting is a choice so i've made a choice to trust somebody because they're not my dad they're not this person they're not that person but for me it's like i don't want to end up in a situation where i have to make the decision whether i have kids or not that's a big thing that's constantly weighing on me like do i

want kids because I see what happened to my mom and what she had to go through. When I hear people who have kids with someone who reveal themselves to be a terrible partner and it can be a real struggle, you know, I think a child is just the greatest blessing that you could have and whatever, you know, as long as you have access to your child and you get to connect with your child, like it's worth whatever come, whatever challenges come with. that's just my personal opinion, but yeah, there is no denying that, again, like, being vulnerable and giving your heart to someone is a very scary and very risky thing, knowing that feelings constantly change and that people do lie and can be deceitful and, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

But I do think you're having a hard time and understanding why separating the deceit and lies that your dad has done and how he treated your mom and how he treated you and the fact that maybe he just, wasn't the best dad and you have the right to be upset and hurt and want him to be accountable for that to still like empathize with your dad's struggle you know people cheat for all different reasons but let's say it's a reason that you know they have a bad relationship with sex or whatever or something like that or them cheating isn't it just like them wanting to be horny and not really giving a fuck about you it doesn't make it okay but it it helps you empathize with why they might you know again maybe that person needs therapy maybe that person has a lot of work

to do on themselves you know and and that person can feel shame for what they did you know which not that you want someone to feel shame but like yeah as human to human like you if someone did a if someone hurts you you want them to at least feel bad about it right because otherwise they're like a sociopath so i guess what i'm saying is if you want to say to your dad if you want to hold your dad accountable for not being the best dad. That's one thing. And regardless of his sexuality, he failed you as a father on some respects, it sounds like. I think that's separate from what he did to your mom and the reasons for it. And that's even also separate from him owing you the truth about his sexuality. And that last part when you like, when I said, well, that's how you did it,

If you want your dad to open up and have it be okay, you know, it's like, you know, imagine if it was like, hey, I know you were abused. Like, are you going to fucking tell me or what? And you're saying, well, if you just tell me, I would accept it, but like, you need to tell me. No, first you have to, like, you have to create a safe space for someone to come out with a truth that their entire life, they've been afraid to admit to themselves, let along other people with the fear of being completely ostracized and rejected by their family, their community, their children, and things like that. And when you like send evidence, whether it's accidentally or not, or go to your dad and be like, I know, are you going to take accountability? That's like, the, he here, are you going to

take accountability for being gay is basically what he's probably hearing? He's not hearing, hey, dad, I love you no matter what. And I am proud to be your daughter. And I certainly have some issues with how you know you've you know maybe been a dad but i still love you and whoever you are and whoever you love i will always be your daughter and you will always be my dad and i want to have an honest relationship with you and whenever you're ready it's okay to just be honest with me and i hope that you can trust me to accept and love you for whoever you are that is like world worlds different than saying so are you going to tell me yeah yeah at that point so like the evidence was It wasn't like, it wasn't clear that it would mean that he was gay.

I also want to be clear about that. But whatever the reasons was, you suspected that your dad was hiding something and you failed to create a safe space for your dad. It was horrible. Yeah, no, I trust me, like, I look back at that. I'm like, I had immediate, like, immediate regret. I was like, freaking out. I'm like, what do I do?

And I had to, like, own up to it at the moment. But after that, like, since then, a lot's changed. That was a long time ago. That was, yeah, that was freshman year of. school. So fast forward to like more recently. He knows that I have nothing but a supportive relationship with his partner. Actually, he, um, eventually like introduced somebody to me as a friend. And I, I knew what that meant. And I was like, okay, you know, like I'm, I'm just happy. I'm just happy that you are, you know what? Like, including me in your life in any capacity. He's never told you he's

gay. Like, yeah. And it's kind of funny because it's like, I, I know, cats out of the bag. Like, You don't, you know, but he never outright said, like, hey, I just want you to know this about me. I mean, I can only assume it's he's afraid to. It's hard for him to say. It's like, it's, again, I don't know your dad and I don't know, I can't speak for what it's like to be gay. But from my friends and close people, I know who are gay, it's a real struggle. And there's a lot of internalized hatred and fear and things like that. And that's what I wanted to try to avoid.

And so again, when it comes to one to have an honest relationship with your dad about who he is and who he loves, he really needs your help and he needs an immense amount of grace and understanding. And you are the when you talk to me about your dad, you give kind of an energy of you owe me the truth. And I, you know, listen, and I understand it from the context of like, you're my dad and you should be honest with me and therefore you owe me the truth. I get the logic. Yeah. You know, but again, that's what I'm talking about. You're needing to try to separate and compartmentalize, you know, like the fact that your dad has this secret, this truth, he hasn't shared with you, and this obvious fear to share

with anyone. And you wanting to have your dad take accountability for how he hurt your mom or didn't step up as a father. Yeah. And I'm lucky to say that now, like, I think because, like, I did. open my arms to like his partner and things like that like it without him having to say it we have built like a relationship of like this is where it's at like it's clear to me that he is like he knows that i know like it's one of those things where he just knew that i knew so i think

that's where he didn't have to say it it's obvious now that i know so there's no like you need to tell me anymore like i don't need that i have i left that go a while ago i think that was just i was you know in the storytelling part of it like that's where i was at one point of like you know I wish you would have just told me. But, you know, I got past that at a certain point when they, when they got divorced and accepted that part and just, like, was happy that, you know, he was letting me into that new life. And since then, like, I've accepted him at any capacity, anything he's willing to give me, you know, like, and same and vice versa, like, he takes what I'm willing to give him.

Like, we definitely don't have, like, a super close bond, but we hang out. We go to the, we go to the gay clubs and the gay bars and, you know, we have so much fun and do those things but I still feel like obviously there's an element of like yeah sure I wish he had been a little bit more vulnerable with me I do like look back on like that one message I sent probably did affect him like I've definitely thought did you ever talk about that with your dad the problem yeah the hard part is is like when I try to talk to him about it there's a level of defensiveness that comes up even when I come with open arms like I've done it in his in front of his partner and like his partner is like the most calming soothing person which is amazing so like

i that's why i chose to do it like any conversation i've had has been you know usually in front of that person why in front because he offers that calmingness to my dad so but yeah he's he might offer a calmness but you don't know if he's comfortable having that conversation with his daughter with anyone present regardless of how calm they are yeah i've had it with with his partner in the room and separate as well but usually it's why do you keep bringing it up um sorry why do you keep bringing it up why do i keep bringing it up yeah i've only the last time i talked to him about it was probably five years ago but why uh just because i felt like there was conversations that just hadn't been had like i was holding a sort of resentment of just like again why do you feel like you couldn't

show up for me in the way that I needed to when I was younger and like when I did try to have open and honest conversations with him any sort of subject it would be defensive so I just really just wanted to have like I guess for in order just to have closeness I think that's what my goal was is just to feel closer to him okay I get I get that it just seems like your approach to being close to him is to bring up controversial topics or or or or to address conflict and to hold them accountable. And if you want to hold your dad accountable, hold him accountable. But that's different than, that's a different goal than I want to be close with my dad. And being close with their dad might require you to accept certain things and give yourself whatever closure you need without necessarily

getting it from your dad. Right. You know, like a lot of how you're speaking is sounds like it, but it's the principle of it. Like I know my dad knows that I know he's gay, but like he hasn't told me. And that pisses me off. And I, you know, he should tell me because I'm his daughter and that says, fucked up. I can see that. Yeah. Yeah. And I just think in some of these very sensitive topics that requires some nuance, it just requires a lot of grace and understanding and then seeing the bigger picture and ultimately asking yourself, what do I really want going forward of this relationship? And again, you have every right to have resentment and anger towards your dad for, again how he treated your mother and how he um treated you but i mean how's your mom doing these days

she's thankfully remarried she's pretty happy but i talk to her often about it just because like i don't think she's really worked through it either i think we share the same like maybe it is lack of closure maybe it is just like lack of understanding like i don't need to understand him being gay i'm so i'm fully supportive of that like i well what's your biggest question if there's closure that you need or questions that you have what's the question it felt like i guess looking back like there was resentment towards us for something we didn't choose, right? Like, I'm very blessed to have been born, you know, like, especially because if he had come out sooner, like, sooner I might not be here. And I've also acknowledged that. But I also think that,

like, there's this level of like, you know, if you began hating your kids, your wife and your life for this, then that's a decision of like, okay. Do you think, do you feel like he hated you? No, no, hated the situation that he was in. Okay. But that was a choice to me and in other in other areas of his life like with the way he talks me about certain things like um his views about money and this or that like he's a very resentful human just like about everything it's like the world is owed to me not like I should earn earn this or whatever like so there's that there's that type of thinking that I that I see and hear from him when he speaks yeah and so for me it's like okay you made this choice you made this choice to have this profession

that you knew hit a ceiling, you know, at a certain point, you're not going to be getting paid more than a certain amount. So instead, he's resentful of everyone who has more than him. Okay. And I hear about it all the time. Other than it being kind of obnoxious and frustrating, which I totally get, why are you making it your problem? It's hard to be around it, I think.

And I'm trying to, I think what I'm trying to say is I'm trying to be the opposite of that. Okay. And it's really hard when I'm surrounded by it all the time. And I'm feeling, are you around your dad constantly and surrounded by him? Not even, yeah, I mean, I see him, like a decent amount just because, again, he is my father. I'm trying to. I'm trying to get closer to him. I totally get that. But again, I just, you're not letting go of some baggage that you have.

And it's just understandable and relatable. But what I'm hearing is you are in total control of the issues that you're having in the feelings that you're feeling. There's a level of grace and acceptance and understanding. you're not willing to go there yet. You can have a relationship with your father without totally liking everything about who your father is. It might not be a relationship maybe your friends have with their father,

but it also might be a better relationship than many other people have with theirs. Our parents are imperfect people. Like your story is, I guess, more complicated or intense than maybe others, but you know it also sounds like you have a dad who loves and cares about you um his life maybe didn't work out the way he envisioned for himself you know gay or straight he's certainly not the first person like that let it certainly be an example you know to you of like I don't want to

you know our parents can be either there are always examples and they can either be an example of who we want to be or an example of who we don't want to be yeah and I think in almost everyone's case our parents play a role a little bit of both you know a lot of it's just like like I love my parents' character or not love my parents' character or like some people like really admire the professional careers of their parents while don't admire who they are as parents, you know, or like their capacity to love. And my parents made a lot of sacrifices on their own personal life for the sake of having 11 kids, you know, like I've chosen a different path for myself. And I still like really admire who my parents are. Back to what this, like,

I'm just curious, how do you feel like this affects your personal life or your dating life? I think like in a way like I might have mentioned before just just the fact that like I saw all my mom went through and I just think like I've seen a lot of relationships not work. I don't know if it's I don't I mean I'm sure that's a shared experience with a lot of people like you know even just growing up with the family friends we've had like a lot of them ended in divorce or whatever. So for me I haven't had a great like role model of like what does a happy marriage look like what does a happy relationship look like. So I think I've tried to figure that out myself, obviously, which is the right thing to do. In every relationship that I've had, like, I'm lucky to say, like, I've had good relationships. Like, my last, the last person I dated was the first, I would say real relationship, like serious relationship. And unfortunately, that was my first heartbreak. He broke up with me out of, like, nowhere. I'm trying to learn to accept no closure. I've learned that from you. Well, it's not no closure, but it's just not getting the closure from. Sometimes it's not the closure you're going to.

How old are you again? I think 26. So I'm still young. And I also realize that. And like, I think there's an element of like knowing that I'm still so young. I also usually date older guys. So my last relationship, he was 32 and I was 24, 25. And then my, my boyfriend that I'm with now, he's also 32. The reason I'm thinking about all these things of like, is this my person? How do I know he's the one? It's because I am dating somebody that's a little bit older. So, like, every little thing that comes up, like, let's say there's something that triggers me. I think the one thing that I wrote and mentioned in my email was, like, there was a car break-in that I had. Like, so I live in a big city, and my car was parked out front. My boyfriend was sitting or sleeping over at the time, and we heard the car alarm go off at two in the morning. And I looked out the window. He looked out the window.

We saw the guys running away. So I went into fight or flight. I am pretty calm in those situations, which. I think is a skill that I've learned from trying to be, like, opposite of my dad, for example. And so I remained pretty calm, ran downstairs, opened the door, saw that it was my car, and we inspected the situation, and I ended up just running back upstairs. He wasn't, like, as freaked out as I was because he's had this happen. He lived in another metropolitan city, and his car has gotten broken into before.

So I think his perspective was like, okay, this happens all the time. But to me, this is the first time it happened to me. Yeah. And so what I really needed was, like, him to show up for me in the moment. And retrospectively, he didn't show up for me the way that I wanted him to. How it really triggered me? How did you want him to show up? I needed some type of, like, support, like, just even like a hug or, like, some type of comfort.

I know it was the middle of the night, but, like, I went out and taped my car. Did you communicate that to him? He came down with me, but he didn't come outside with me. And then, like, the cops here, they don't come quickly at all. they take like a few hours and he wasn't even very thrilled about me calling cops he's like there's no point in calling them i'm like i need to call them because i need to put a police report in so that i can you know put it through my insurance and everything and so he went back to bed when i was obviously like shaken up and instead of waiting for the cops with me he went back to bed and it just like

really kind of upset me like i didn't in the moment realize how upset i was or what i needed but like have you communicated that it just sat with me to him sorry have you communicated that to him like yes we have so that was some yeah we we eventually talked about it I tried to like sometimes I try to like give it some time to think think through if I'm actually that upset about it I think I sometimes also try to like just get over things when they actually are affecting how I'm feeling the relationship so I realized that it was still like sitting with me and like not in a good way and so I finally brought it up to him and you know he was apologetic he's very patient and he's very good at like listening um um And so we did talk about it. But like that's just an example of like anybody could do something like that. It's just like it freaks me out of like, oh my God, if I'm in a relationship with you, does that mean you're not going to show up? Like does that like, is this a sign? And so like anything like that that happens, it like triggers me.

I really am trying to figure out why. And what did you say to him and what did you say back? And do you feel like it's been resolved? I'm having these residual feelings after the car situation. I felt very alone in the moment. I felt like I really needed you to be there for me and I know that I don't communicate like that I'm extremely stressed out or very anxious and I maybe you didn't realize what I needed but like I just needed some form of comfort from you and I didn't receive that and I felt just like alone during and then alone after it and I just felt like you kept dismissing the way that I felt because you kept bringing up your experience like you kept bringing up. Yeah, that seems really, that sounds very valid and it sounds like you communicated that very well. What did you say?

He understood, but he was like, you know, I came from a place of like, it was a crime of opportunity, not necessarily a crime of like passion or anything. And I think I understand that too. But your point was he's right to, like logically, you understood his point of view. You're not denying that like he's been kind of desensitized to that kind of violation. like he didn't empathize with it being your first time. And regardless of how he felt about it, like, you know, you wanted your man to step up and emotionally be there for you, regardless of how he felt about it. And you're hoping next time he does.

And do you feel like he, does he feel like he understands that rather than explaining again why he thought the way he, like, it's not about why he wasn't wrong to feel the way he felt yeah he was he made his feelings more important than your feelings in that moment and chose to not just like be there for his girlfriend when she needed some emotional support absolutely and that is the one thing like I felt like when I left the conversation I did feel like he was being a little defensive in the beginning but then what what really helped was like the next day he sent me a really nice like long text saying you know I've thought so much about this and like I'm I'm just so sorry that I didn't show up for you the way that you needed me to.

Awesome. And so that was good. That's what I, like, that's really what I needed to hear. But just like, I feel like in, in my past relationships, like, and a little bit in this one sometimes, I just feel like, I expect, I try to, like, not expect crazy things from them. But what I'm willing to give is what I kind of expect in return. And, like, for me, I try to look at it this way, like, is what I'm asking them,

something that I'm willing to give? And usually the answer is, like, absolutely 1,000 percent. and I already am. So I'm feeling like in most relationships that I've had, the men aren't showing up the way that I'm willing to. And it feels like there's this like imbalance of like effort. And I just, I'm wondering if I'm the problem like of like, am I expecting too much. But like at the same time, I'm not asking for anything that I'm not willing to do and am not already doing. If that makes sense. yeah that that's great but what's what's the problem i mean just that's that's in like a lot of scenarios like how much time i'm willing to spend how much i'm willing to go visit them or you have your expectations of yourself and and your hopes of how your partners are um and i think that's great that you check in with yourself about your expectations to wonder if they're reasonable um most of the time that's just a matter of opinion and perspective or just

preferences. This situation, your boyfriend didn't meet your expectations when it first happened. You know, you were disappointed. You sat with it. You process it. You still felt the way you did. You felt valid in your feelings. You communicated that effectively. He heard you. He processed. He listened. Took some time, responded, affirmed your feelings, and then acknowledge that he was not only, he was disappointed himself. And I guess, you're both guys waiting for the next time. when... Hopefully there's not one. Well, I mean, it might not be a hopefully,

hopefully it's certainly a break-in, but a time in which you feel a certain way and he doesn't, like he doesn't have that same feeling, but he recognizes that his girlfriend needs some emotional support and validation and comfort even though he doesn't need it.

And that's what you want, right? That's a good and healthy relationship. That's the most we can hope for. Right. Having our partners magically just do the right thing every time the first time is great, but kind of unrealistic. I mean, yeah, you don't want a boyfriend that you have to train every little thing. But I'm guessing this guy, your current boyfriend, wouldn't be your boyfriend if, like, he was, like, he did everything wrong.

But you almost want him to do everything right and then get frustrated when he doesn't and kind of annoyed that you have to occasionally explain yourself. Right, yeah. And I guess that's where the problem, like, I don't, I don't know what the many, many times that I've had to bring things up of like, in this relationship and in other ones. And it feels like I'm constantly having to like, and I don't feel like it's anything crazy. Like, it's just like this rub me the wrong way or, you know, I'm communicating that this made me feel a certain way or I'm feeling like the effort is lacking here. Like, whatever it is, I'm, I feel like it's consistent in every relationship that I'm in. And then it's just like, I don't know, because I see all these people. that are like getting engaged and getting married and how do they know that it's consistent how do you know I mean no one's perfect yeah I don't I don't know how everyone knows you know it's just you know it's just and people I think it wrong you know for me it's like Natalie made me feel like whatever we go through and we've been through a lot that she made me feel loved and made me feel like she wanted to fight for that love in relationship as much as I wanted to. And it's, and we both made each other frustrated and

hurt each other and all these things that happen in relationships and with, you know, and for me, for me, it was her willingness to do that and a bunch of other little things like I, you know, I never felt like I had to compete with her, which wasn't always the case with other relationships. But like, when you're saying, like, well, every boy forever had, I've always feel like I've had to like point out things that frustrated, like some pet peeves of mine. Well, part of it, that's who you are. On some regards have your high standards, I'm sure on some, you know, or like some standard, you're comfortable with communicating those standards and in hopes that people, you know, meet your expectations, which is normal in a relationship. And again, back to like,

what are you wanting? Are you wanting, like, how you communicate it and how they receive, you know what I'm saying? Like, you're just like, I never want to do that. Again, no one's perfect. You know, you might get in a relationship where it's just like, well, we've never fought or had it. Like, well, that just may be, there's just a lot of excitement and lust and the honeymoon phase is this longer. But at the end of the day, if you are comfortable being your truest self with your partner, then that's going to annoy them. It's just like, we're all annoying. And finding the things you love about them, regardless of the fact that they annoy you is a good place to start. But like, you know, there's no guarantees.

But, like, yeah, I mean, it's just, yeah, I don't know how that correlates with your relationship with your dad, you know, but. Yeah, me too. Yeah, I'm wondering if it is. And that's, I guess, like, sometimes I wonder if it is or if it's not or if I'm just, like, looking for a connection as to why I'm, like, not sure. Yeah, part of me is, like, you know, we're getting into the whole, like, I'm not a therapist and I don't, I'm just not my position to diagnose you and things like that. But you still have some resentment and frustration with your father. So you should work through that. For sure.

My very unprofessional read on this is that like when it comes to who your dad is as a person and who he's chosen to love, you might need to give him a little bit more grace than you're giving him and have a little bit more acceptance for his shortcomings than you're willing to give him. And if there's some things that you still feel hurt by that you haven't got off your chest by all means address that with your father but the way you're talking it's like you just have decided not to let some things go you can't change the past and i don't know what you're what he could or should say that would you know really like it's you know there's again there's some

it's the principle of it type of energy you're giving you know you come across as someone has like a and i say this is a compliment like a a a lot of conviction and a maybe like a you're you're confident in what you think is right or wrong and that's great it doesn't mean that like people can disagree with you can't disagree with you but like sometimes you have to let shit go you know like sometimes you have to accept that people feel differently than you you know you've heard me say this on the do you want to be right or do you want to be happy and you have a lot of I want to be right energy I love that yeah I love that quote I do try to think about it that way I think, like, as it pertains to my dad, like, the letting things go.

I think I've let a lot of it go. I think the one thing that's, like, hard is that it's continued into his current relationship, too. And, like, I really care about his partner. I'm very close with his partner. Fair enough. But that's not your, you can't make that your problem, you know? Like, you, that's the fixer in you. And, again, like, that's your choice.

If you want to have a relationship with his partner and side with his partner, you can do that. But as a choice you're making, you're not obligable. obligated or whatever. And again, you do not have to like all the choices your dad makes. And you're not going to. And it's not your job to fix him. And if you want to be your dad's therapist or moral compass, you can be, but I think you're just better off to just having him be your dad and accepting him as a flawed man. And you can't change his perspective and you can't change a lot of things about your dad. You have decided to make some of those problems your problems when they don't need to be your problems. I think that's a very fair thing to say, yeah. Yeah, because like,

honestly, I'm hearing a lot of positive, how you care, you know, it's just like you have a, one, you have a boyfriend. It sounds like it's overall going well. And you shared a story about some conflict that you experience and how will you guys both handle it. I don't know. I don't have really any notes for either of you, you know, like, so like, you know, yeah, there's no guarantees, you know, like being in love is a leap of faith, getting married's an even bigger one. Having children. Yeah, you know, having children. And, you know, having children. And, And then like all you can do is every day wake up and either literally or kind of figuratively check in with each other and make sure this is a relationship you still choose to be in. And I guess when you choose to get engaged and married, it's the trust that this person wants to keep choosing you for the rest of your life.

And then all, you know, like obviously like your dad kept a very big secret from your mom. And like if you have some baggage or some like childhood trauma from like the fear. of like you never really know who someone is and is this guy holding baggage for me, then you should definitely work through that and, you know, see a therapist for that and work on those issues. Yeah, I definitely don't think he is for one. But like we, him and I, we both got out of long, or his was more of a long-term relationship. But the person I'm with now, like he got out of like, I think it was like a six-year

relationship before me. And I got out of that, I think we were together for a little over a year, but ended differently. and like that was something like I feel like we almost trauma bonded in the beginning of about it like and then we actually have both had quite a year of change like a ton of change job change he moved locations for me he moved here pretty much for me from a different city so it's just been like a whirlwind and so I feel like now I'm finally like after the whirlwind is settling down trying to like sit here and be like okay we're getting to that year mark now what and I feel like there's this block in my mind of like how do I get over the hump of like seeing a future of this person and not trying to think about everything that's gone wrong or every hardship we face and try to like think positively about a future and like if I see myself having kids of this person because that's the that's the risk you you know have to take when you're dating somebody older is you kind of have to like not know but I do feel this pressure of like I should have an answer for him well it seems like more like

you want to figure out if this guy's going to hurt you or not and unfortunately there's no way to guarantee that because he doesn't have to be a bad guy for his feelings to change and him to like hurt you and break your heart but that being said like it hasn't even been a year yet and what happens in a year and a day nothing needs to happen you can just keep enjoying the relationship you're only 26 i'm not sure when you want to get married or have kids or what conversations you're having but like it's all it is is a conversation you have with him you know and if you two stay together, then you will probably get married and have kids if that's what you want for yourself sooner than if you guys break up because then you will have to be single again and meet

someone else and the developer relationship. I didn't choose to wait until I was 40 to have a kid. It's just how my life played out. And with hindsight being 2020, I'm really happy with how it has. But you know, you can't avoid frustration and pain and things like that. And I think, you know, I empathize with like it sounds like you had a tough childhood. and a lot of respects and but yeah like you also have some good things you know you do have a father in your life which sounds like despite all his flaws you feel like he loves you and you have a relationship with him and that's you know better than a lot of people yeah it's better than a lot of people and not that like you you don't have the right to be frustrated but like i think you just

need to chill out a little bit um yeah good assessment be happy when when good things are going and check in with yourself and your partner when things feel disconnected. And that's all you can really do. And try not to add unnecessary pressure on yourself or the relationship or him if it doesn't need to and try to be mindful of when you're projecting some stuff you need to work through onto him

or your friends or your dad. And then ask yourself sometimes because I think you have a habit of doing this is like, why am I addressing this? Is this something, like, for example, like your car got broken into, your boyfriend didn't step up the way he did. And if this is a man I want to keep dating, potentially get engaged to, whether it's two years from now or five years or now, does he have the capacity to make me feel safe and

supportive? That's an important thing to address. Yeah, that's, I think that, yeah, the question. Bringing up, like, why your dad didn't do or do things in the past, like, or, you know, like, certain things, just because, you know, you know, it's certain things because, you you think he should have and he hasn't yet, what is me confronting this situation going to accomplish? Am I,

is it going to help me move forward with this person? Or am I just going to feel validated and right? Or am I just going to get the closure I've deemed myself, like, worthy of getting? I think you're right. I think when you, when you mentioned, like, have those conversations with your partner, like,

that's, I think, what we're doing now. And this is kind of why I called in. I'm just like, we have a question of, do you want kids? Do you want kids with me? Do you want to get married?

do you want to get married to eventually me like those are i mean again he's a little bit older so those are the questions that are being asked and those are their conversations that we're having and so that's where i'm coming into like i think all these things are coming to ahead and so i'm trying like i don't think like two years ago i was thinking or worried about all these things but now i'm starting to like worry about them and i think a healthy way too big like do you want to have kids and do you want to have kids with me those i know two very different questions uh i don't know i don't know period if I want kids. Oh.

So that's the problem. So then why are you asking him? No, he's asking me that. Oh, okay. He's asking you if he wants to have kids with you. Well,

just like, because of the trajectory of the relationship, it's going to, it's going to actually get a point where we talk about moving together and all those things. Well, I mean, you know, you know, if he knows he wants to have kids

and you're not sure, that's definitely a potential problem because that would put that in the non-negotiable. I don't have an answer. Why don't you think you want to have kids? I think, like, again, just like the fear of like, not only just having a kid,

but, I mean, it changes your life, but also just having a kid with somebody, you know, that's maybe not the right person or somebody who will change and not eventually not show up the way that they need to as a father and a husband. I mean, that's, I think where I'm, was, you know, coming to this with all of that. The husband part, more unpredictable, but most of the time, you know, not always, that's for sure. And I understand why you have second guesses because of the relationship with your father. But, like, you know, it might not work out for you guys, but like, if this is a guy who cares about being a day. dad and talks like a person who looks forward to being a dad someday, chances are whether it will help guys have things work out for you. You'll be lucky enough to have a good co-parent. And hopefully, obviously, you want more for yourself. But listen, it's not my place.

From personal experience, if having kids is something that you think about, don't make that decision off of fear. Yeah. I appreciate all of your advice today. All right. Well, thanks for calling in. Thanks, Nick. I've always listened to your podcast since, like, day one. Well, I appreciate listening. And keep us updated at how things going. I'd love to learn in maybe like a month or two, like how you process this conversation and how you applied it and if it's changed anything. But it seems like you do a good job of checking it with yourself. I think the big, again, the big takeaway is like, be mindful of like, is it worth it?

Do I need to pick this fight? Do I need to be right and validated? Or is this important for me to address. And I think a lot of times you're doing the former when you should be doing the letter. Absolutely. Okay. All right. Good luck.

Thank you, Nick. Take care. All right. Thanks for the call. Bye, bye.