The Viall Files - Ep1180 - Dating 101 | Ask Nick

Episode Date: August 31, 2026

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Ask Nick edition! Our first caller juggles complicated friendship dynamics. Our second caller asks how to turn her 25 year friendship into a romantic relationship. Our third caller seeks general advice on dating in the modern world. Subscribe for more dating advice, relationship drama, and unfiltered Ask Nick calls every week. "He has to make you feel loved on a consistent basis..." Nick is on Substack! Subscribe here: https://nickviall.substack.com/subscribe  ARE YOU A MESS BECAUSE OF YOUR SITUATIONSHIP? OR JUST IN GENERAL? Email [e-mail] with all your relationship questions and be a part of future Ask Nick episodes! Want ad free episodes and incredible bonus content featuring updates from your favorite callers? Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + HERE: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  To Order Nick's Book and/or learn more about the show, go to: https://viallfiles.com THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Mint Mobile: Go to https://mintmobile.com/viall. Monarch: Use code VIALL at https://monarch.com to get your first year of Monarch Core half off at just $50. Merit Beauty: Merit Beauty is offering their Signature Makeup Bag free with your first order at https://meritbeauty.com.  Tonal: Go to https://tonal.com and use promo code VIALL for $200 off your purchase. **To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles  Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @justinkaphillips @baybaeee

It started about three years ago, but it's just really awkward. Are they friends? Are they not friends? Is there animosity between them? Yes. Yes. Why? So friend A, sister passed away four years ago. Friend B is now dating friend A's dead sister's widowed husband.

You. Good. What's your name? Meredith. Meredith. 40. How can I help? So one of my best friends is living her hallmark love story, while the other is living a devastating family loss. how do I keep them both in my life without feel like I'm choosing one over the other?

Why do you have to choose? I don't have to. And I don't feel like I do. But I didn't know the right question to ask because I feel like I had set really good boundaries with them. It's more about like, say, my birthday. Wanting to do something. I want to invite all my friends. And I do.

It started about three years ago. and like I'll invite them to my party sure sometimes one chooses to come and the other doesn't or they both come but it's just really awkward when they're both there okay are they friends are they not friends are there is our animosity between them yes yes so there's one friend um let's say her name is Chloe. She has been my number one best friend, like since we were born, our parents grew up together, grew up on the same neighborhood, I've been friends forever. The other one, let's say her name is. Friend B. And Friend B became our friend in high school. And we all became pretty inseparable. Chloe, a friend A, sister passed away four years ago, tragically to cancer. And friend B is now dating friend A's dead sister's ex-well not ex-husband but widowed husband Mm-hmm okay

So we're all best friends at first like we knew a really struggled with the passing of her sister of course it was pretty fast sudden she still hasn't really struggles with it a lot to grief which there's no right way to grieve right way. But I imagine her sister's widow dating her friend is a choice. That's for sure. Yes. And so when they first started talking

it was a choice of Friend B. Friend B and widowed husband started talking. They met at a cheerleading practice. And Friend B didn't know anyone there because it was from an outside town. And their town didn't have a cheer team.

It's a really convoluted. So friend B didn't know friend A's sister at all. So by the time we became friends in high school, friend A's sister had moved off, went to college. Like, wasn't around at all when we became friends with friend B. Sure, but regardless, it's you guys,

the three of you were friends, close friends, yeah? Yes, yes. And while she maybe never met friend A's sister who passed, correct? Yeah, yeah. She certainly was where her friend lost her sister, correct? Oh, yeah, yeah. At what point did Friend B realize that she was hanging out with the widow?

Well, she knew it was the widow. She just asked, she's like, hey, she introduced herself as Friend B's best friend and was like, hey, can we be buddies? I don't know anybody, you know, because they can't go into practice. together, so they're all just kind of hanging out in the lobby area while they're, their girls. When you were kind of explaining the story, it almost sounded like you're trying to justify Friend, Friends B's choices, like, well, she didn't really know the sister who passed type of thing.

Right. Yeah. But, like, does that really matter? No. I mean, at the end of the day, I'm not saying Friend B is wrong for dating this person. Yeah, I don't think either of them are wrong personally. I get both sides. Sure.

But then I guess when you start justifying things, and it kind of like it sounds like a guilt in a way, if I may, you know? Yeah. It's like, you know, they're like, I didn't know and I didn't realize or, you know, like I didn't really know her. And like it all sounds like a. Like something wrong happened. Yeah. And it's lacking the appropriate empathy. It's, you know, certainly Friend A, whose sister's past sounds like maybe she hasn't fully processed this loss.

We did. So when they first started talking, Friend. B was like told the widow, hey, like you should probably ask if this is okay. Like we know that this is kind of weird territory, you know. So he did. And she said, yeah, sure, talk to her. This was about a year and a half after her sister passed. You kind of got her blessing at the time.

Yeah. Yeah. And then what things kind of took off and they really kind of fell for each other and then it began and then it got weird. Yes. Yes. So she knew, but she knew that they were talking. she knew that they hung out.

And about a month later, we had our typical girls night where we're just hanging out. And, you know, we talked about it face to face. And we're like, I'm crying, friend B's crying because we know, like, this is just kind of something that happened and didn't expect to happen. We know how much friend A hurts.

And so we're like, are you really okay with us? Like, she's like, I really enjoy talking to him. And she's like, yes, I want you to be happy. And I want him to be happy. She has since about a year into their relationship has since, once she realized how serious it was getting, even though they've been very slow in their relationship, she slowly has changed her mind. Okay. Yeah. And that's where more the awkwardness comes in.

It wasn't awkward at first. It was. So what are you hoping I can help you with? Just kind of let go of what, what am I holding on to? What are you holding on to? What do you mean? What are you holding on to? Like why am I letting it affect me so much?

Well, I assume you care about both these women. You know they're both hurting. You don't really have a clear answer in terms of like no one's like you said doing anything wrong. Yeah. Everything you're saying makes sense. You know, it sounds like friend B acknowledged the sensitivity of this situation. Not the first time, you know, a person passed and a. a friend group and, you know, it's like hard to meet people.

And it sounds like there was like an organic meat cute, I guess. I don't know. I don't know how else to describe it. Right. And friend A thinks that was set up. And it wasn't. Set up by who? Friend B.

At first she wasn't like thinking like that. But now she has like more negative thoughts towards it. But it sounds like your opinion about the situation. situation is you don't think friend B did anything nefarious or shady or wrong. You empathize with your friend day and you and you feel like you're stuck in the middle of it. Yeah. And I just want to be able to have the normal things like, okay, say we like to go to like craft fairs and markets and things, invite them and then it like not be so awkward.

Like I want them and I know I can't do this, but I just want them to talk and be like, okay. Like, let's just make, it's never going to be the same. Yeah, but right now I think you need to find it in normal. Yeah. It sounds, I mean, listen, I can't, I don't, I can't help a friend A or friend B. Right. And you're calling in is it's your problem? And I understand that you feel like you're stuck in the middle of it. But I wonder if the solution isn't to center your feelings on this situation. I mean, it's not ideal. I get it. But like right now, it's like, if I'm understanding, understanding you, you're trying to figure out how to continue to keep the friend group civil so that you can hang out with both these women, because it used to be the three of you

and you enjoyed those times. You're unable to do that anymore. And you're still trying to figure out how to get that done. Is that, am I accurate? Yeah. And we do hang out, but with it not being so me feeling like, you know, like I'm having two separate conversations because they don't talk. Yeah, yeah. But I guess right now, I think you've got to let that go as my point. Like right now, you're focused in how this is affecting you. I understand it's affecting you. It sucks. But you are the third wheel in this story, right? Like, obviously friend B is, sounds like she has genuine feelings for this person and probably feels like she's being accused of something she didn't do. And she's being presented by friend A seemingly like the only

solution is to end that relationship out of respect for her sister who passed, which doesn't seem practical to Friend B because she's like, I didn't do anything wrong. And like, I'm so sorry this happened to your sister. But like, and again, it's not really, you know, her ex-husband, now he has the right to move on with his life. And if he's found comfort in this person, again, I understand the weirdness of it. But like, and it sounds like Friend A just really needs to process this, you know, and that can be very difficult. And, all you can do is encourage your friend A to, is friend A mad at you for supporting friend B?

She doesn't show it to me if she is. Okay, well, there you go. So like, that's good. But right now I think your primary concern, you need to let go of this desire to get the band back together and to make things how they used to be. That's not going to happen anytime soon, maybe never. I don't expect it to.

Yeah. I don't. And that's why I've had that conversation with Friend A. I'm like, it's never going to be the same. I'm not asking it to be. I just want to move forward. Well, that's what I'm saying. I think you need to stop talking to Friend A about what you want.

I mean this with love. What you want is the least important thing in this equation. Right now I want you to focus on wanting Friend A to get, whatever help she needs. Yeah, I've signed her up for counseling. I told her. I go with her. But I think the goal needs not to be,

because the way you talk, it sounds like the goal is to like, again, get your friend group right together. And that makes you sad that you don't have your friend group. Yeah. And that creates complication in your life

because you feel awkward. Like when you do invite these two women, you feel awkward, right? It feels different. You know, you don't like the vibes. Right. And everyone, around. For sure. That's completely understandable, but nevertheless, there's no solution to your

problem, right? And quite frankly, I don't think like friend A is going to empathize with your uncomfortability of this situation. Right. No. And I guess I'm, gosh, I hope I don't coming, I'm not coming off that way. So that's a good perspective. Well, I mean, I again, I've just talked to you and I understand this is why you're calling in because it does bother you, and I get that. But if you are communicating to them the way your community media, it does come off that way, that you care, that your big frustration with this whole situation is your problems, which, and again, like, I understand why you have a problem with this situation. But it's not going to land with friend A for sure. And as far as friend B, I'm sure it might land a little bit better because I'm sure she doesn't like these accusations. from friend A.

Yeah. But again, I don't think her biggest concerned is the friend group either. I think she's more concerned about not being painted as some sort of home wrecker or some, you know, shady person. Right. Yeah. No, her image for sure. Yeah. And so. And people that know the situation, no, it's not true.

You know, they. Yeah. But I guess what I'm saying is when you tell the story, you talk about how it's affecting you the most. and I understand that it is affecting you, but I don't know if centering that is the solution to your problem. I think you have to try to, for the time being, separate the friendship. I would stop going out of your way

to try to find ways to invite them both the same thing if that's not what they want, because that's what you want. It's not what they want. Yeah, no, and I don't do it very often. Why do you do it at all at this point? Well, like my birthday, for example. Okay.

Well, listen, I mean, at this point, all you can do is just be honest. you can say, hey, listen, I'm having my birthday party. I love you both to be there. I hope you come. Yeah. And then it's like... Sometimes she comes and sometimes she doesn't.

Okay, great. Right. And then when that happens, you have to at that point, I guess with, I guess my advice for you is to like not make, you have to accept that this is the situation. And for the sake of your birthday party, you can't go and expect friend A to be like, I need you to go to, I need you to be cool and not ruin my birthday party, so to speak. Yeah. You know, I can't...

And they don't really ruin it. They're fine. They're cordial. They just, it's, that you can feel all the energy. You let it bother you. You let it bother. So again, like if your goal, you know, you know what I'm saying? You have to stop.

You just have to accept this situation. I know it's tough. Yeah. But it bothers you the most when it, you're trying to enjoy both their company at the same time, correct? Correct. Yeah. And I think you need to stop trying to have that expectation for the time being.

Because that's when it sounds like your, you're, you're, centering your feelings on the situation more than either of theirs. It's hard. Yeah. I'm very good with boundaries. Like, and I've set them and they know what, you know, I don't want to be in the middle. So don't, but don't be in the middle, you know, like you have, you have to not, you, you are putting yourself in the middle.

Right. And I understand that you are organically, I guess, in the middle. But right now, you have to accept that. and right now in terms of, and you have to maintain these friendships separately, it sounds like there is some civility here where like it's not like friend A has demanded you stop being friends with friend B, right? That that hasn't happened?

Yeah, no, no. Right? And so it sounds like they have accepted that you are friends with both, and it's not a big deal. What they haven't accepted is specifically Friend A. She hasn't accepted to not feel a certain way about, friend B doing what she's doing, which is totally understandable. If you want to invite them both, you have to invite them both knowing that friend A is going to feel a certain way and be a certain way

and act a certain way. And you inviting friend B and friend A and then knowing what's probably going to go down, then it goes down, and then you choose to like be upset about the thing, which is again, is understandable, but that's when you are, you're making it about you. Yeah. And again, I'm not saying you don't have a right to be sad or feel. about this, but I don't, that's not solving the problem. Right now, I think you need to I don't think the problem will ever be solved. Maybe not. But in the meantime, you need to pour your love, you need to focus on these friendships individually. Because right now, it sounds like you're still focused on saving the group dynamic. Yeah, I mean, I can see where, you know,

that comes off for sure. And I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong. And it totally makes sense why you're, why you're doing this. But it's like, I think just focus on. on your relationship with friend A, try to be there for her, certainly encourage her if there's a lane there for her to try to process this loss, but it can't come across as you have alternative motives, which is, I just want to get the band back together. What you want is friend B, friend A, to just be able to move on with her life and be able to memorialize her sister in a way that doesn't stop her from living her life.

Right. And then you can still be friends with friend B, and support her and her relationship, you know? But like this, stop trying to bring them together. If it is a situation like your birthday and you're just like, listen, I just want my friends to be there. And you give them a head up, heads up,

and they choose to be there, then you have to accept that there still might be an awkward vibe. And you can't really get, you're choosing to get upset about that right now. Right. And I get it's an understanding, but like you said, this has been going on for a while now,

and you just have to kind of accept the new normal. And maybe things will change, but right now you're trying to force it, it sounds like. And then, and that wound, you force it. And then it's just like, you're just like, yeah, I just missed the old days and I can't believe it's like this. And why does it have to be this way? And it's all centered around your discomfort with the new reality.

And it's less about your friend's discomfort. It's about the reality. Like, you're, to be honest, you're kind of annoyed, which I get. like it's frustrating for you you're like why this is yeah no definitely annoyed because that's like really like we just need to i just am ready to move on and find our new normal like yeah but that's what i'm saying you are we live in a small town yeah you're ready i get while you're ready around each other all the time but your friend friend day is just not ready maybe she should be ready

and maybe she's not helping herself out to be you know but like you just have to accept that and she's going to have to go at her pace and if you want to be a friend to friend day you're going to have to be more accepting of her pace and not your pace. That's a very slow pace. But I'll be there. Because like you said, this is the reality. And you don't have to be friends with her. But if you want to, you're going to have to try to, like,

you're going to try to have to meet your friend where she's at. Right now you're trying to get her to meet her, you or you're at, which is like this, I don't like that this hell happened. Yeah. I mean. But you have to process the loss of the group, but your friend has to process the loss of her sister and then process what feels like abandonment

from her ex-brother-in-law and the weirdness of her dating her friend, which probably, whether it's is or is not, has some level of feelings like a betrayal and she's processing that, which is probably why she's, you know, again, it sounds like she knows that it's not, but like it just feels a certain way.

Yeah. But meanwhile, you're just really annoyed that the vibes off. I guess, yeah. I mean, I don't know if I would use an, But frustrated. I mean, that's all the above. I'm sure there are moments of annoyance, sadness. Right. Just like, it sucks. It sucks. But my point is, it sucks for you. And that's the thing that makes you the most sad because you wish it was different. And I think right now you- Right, I think it sucks for all of us. Like, I just want everyone to be happy. From your perspective, right now, it doesn't sound like Friend A is remotely sad about the friend group. Yeah, I don't know. I'd be willing to, I'd like to ask her. I just don't. think that the group is her primary concern right now. No, it's not. It's your concern. Yes. That's the point. I think you need to try it to let go right now. You still have both these

women in your life? Yes. You're still friends with them. Yes. That's what you need to embrace. And maybe it will change, but it's going to change on their time, not yours. And in the meantime, you're just going to have to accept this new normal. And then when certain situations that are so around you, like your birthday, you're just going to have to make some choices. And it sounds like maybe that choice is to invite them both. Right. And I do. Great. But when that happens, you can't do the thing where it's just like, then you make that, you make the choice to invite them both. And then you make the entire party or event about you hoping or wishing or worrying about how those two women interact with each other. Yeah, I don't. I don't do that, but it's the aftermath.

like people coming to me being like, oh my gosh, did you feel attention? Like they didn't even talk. They, you know. Well, I mean, you're used to that. So again, you just have to get used to that. And again, you can't, you know, don't indulge in the drama. Don't indulge all in the gossip. And if that happens, they're like, yeah, it's a tough situation.

There's no, you know, I'm sad for the situation. Obviously, I love them both. And like, just don't lean in in the gossip. You know, be like, yeah, I know that was really weird. It's like, you know it's going to be weird. Right. No, I do. I just want them to be happy.

Yeah. No, I totally get that. And I know Friend A isn't happy. Yeah. And I just want her to be. Well, focus on that and focus on being there for her. Yeah. And I am.

And I know she appreciates it. Like, I know she, it's just I want her to be happy. I can't make her happy though. You can't, but you still can be there for her. Yes, and I am. But the more you, the more you make her feel bad for, being uncomfortable with the situation she has the right to be uncomfortable with whether you intend to make her feel bad or not it's not in helping the situation and that's what i mean like

whether again you have every right to feel how you feel that's not the point the point is a little more than i think you should be for the sake of the big picture you're you're just kind of centering how this is making you feel over how it's making them feel i mean i know it's not i'm not i'm not probably no i i i don't yeah it's hard like i i i feel like i'm like over empathizing for friend a i just want her to be happy i don't know i don't think you're over empathizing i mean like how can you over empathize in this situation just i like take on her energy and i'm just so sad for her yeah that makes sense i mean you're a good friend you know just you got to let go of the group so to sort of well i have to let go of who she was you know it's not necessarily even the group

it's let go of who friend A was. For now. For now. She'll never be the same. I don't know. You don't know that. In the meantime, you just got to be there for. Which I am.

I am. Like I said, I just want her to be happy. And there's so much more. There's like, so my friend A, widow's mom, friend A's mom and dad, widow and friend A's grandmother, all live in a cul-de-sac. That's where it's like more daily because obviously friend B goes over and she spends the night. And she, so it's like in her face more. Because like when she's doing dishes out the kitchen, she sees Red B drive in.

Like, man, it couldn't be more entwined. It has nothing to do with me. No, I know. It's, yeah, but yeah, that much you can do about that. That's another stressor, but it's not my stress. to go. Yeah. There's going to be, there's a lot more drama, but it's not mine.

You got to try to, I mean, as much as you can, just try to get your friend not to encourage her to try to move forward. I've tried everything. I feel it's time, but it's been, I'm not saying for her to be completely moved on, but like something. Yeah. Something to help her move on. Well, in the meantime, just be a friend.

Yeah. And try not to make it something yet you need, like, you're not going to solve this problem. No, no. But what you can do is still be a friend. And that friendship can evolve and change. But like, you know, and I think this is what you got to focus on. Yes. I appreciate it. All right. Sorry I wasn't more helpful. Sorry for getting emotional. No, no. It's sounds like a very, you know, it's your whole life and it's, you know, it's your people. And it sucks when your people are, you know, not getting along. Right. Like, it's just, I just want. her to be happy. I wish I could help her move on. Move forward, not move on. You know, like,

she's just. Is she getting therapy? Is she getting help? No, she won't do anything. That's too bad. I know. I've tried. Like I said, I've literally signed up for her. I will go with her. Like, she just isn't ready. Well, just all you can do is keep encouraging her. Yep. Well, thank you. Well, thanks for calling in. Sorry, I wasn't more helpful. No. No, it's just good to hear. Like I said, this has been going on for three years. And I'm like, I listened to the Ask Nick, obviously. And I'm like, I'm just going to write it. And if I get picked, it's meant to be.

All right. Well, I appreciate the call. Thank you. All right. Take care. Bye. Bye. How's it going?

Not bad in yourself. I'm good. What's your name? My name's Claire and I'm 37. Talking out, Claire. I am trying to navigate my 25-year-fifes. friendship into a relationship. I've been struggling with his and my dynamic for the better part of two years now, just because we get overwhelmed when we are trying to be romantic with

one another because of our dynamic in our past. So I'm just trying to figure out what we're able to do with. So you've been friends with this man for a lifetime? Yeah. He, So we started becoming friends when he was 11 and I was 13. When I was trying to figure out what was going on with him and his mental health, I blurted out that I loved him. And I don't know how to navigate our friendship moving forward. If I'm at the point where I don't know if I should go back to being friends with him or stay romantic with. him or not. So you guys are currently romantic? It's currently romantic right now, yeah. Okay. And what do you,

what's the problem with your dynamic? What's what's the issue? Because I'm pretty sure that him and I are both neurodivergent, um, to a certain degree. I found out that I am possibly autistic and my dad and my niece are both autistic and I also have, um, an uncle and I didn't know that I was, that I was autistic. until recently. Have you being diagnosed by a doctor? No, not yet. Because I found all of that out at the same time as our dynamic kind of changed. A lot of it comes to do with our dynamic with our friends and my mom and whatnot.

They've gotten really involved in our friendship. and they basically say that he's only out to just have sex with me, but we can't do any of that if our life depended on it. What do you mean? We just, we struggle, we're struggling with being romantic with one another, even though we want to be with one another, is really what it comes down to. He gets really overwhelmed when I get upset about anything,

and then I get overwhelmed when our dynamic has to stop for a bit so that we can stop being overwhelmed. And like I said, I'm at the point where I don't know if I should stop the dynamic completely because our friendship was easier to have or maintain moving forward with it and just give myself a lot more grace. Okay. I guess I'm just a little confused by what this dynamic. is. So you said you couldn't be intimate if your life depended on it. I understood that correctly?

Yes. We're having a hard time with it, yeah. Okay. Just a lot of nerves. Yeah. So you guys are, you both have some anxiety around physical intimacy, which, yes, probably more common than you realize. Yeah. You said, so you also think he's neurodivergent or autistic. Yeah. And was he, is he diagnosed? I can't really claim it, but I tend to connect better with narrow divergent people. And it's been a pattern in my life, but I usually only hang out with them. And how do you know that they're neurodivergent? Are they diagnosed? Yes.

Most of them, yeah. Okay. I can't really, I can't really go based on who he is. It's just how he acts with me. How does he act with you? There's always been an underlying romantic connection that we were not able to figure out for a long time. And he said the same thing himself. So I don't know.

I was dating his best friend and his friend attempted to hook up with me and I got really uncomfortable. And I told him that I'm pretty sure that I'm in love with and I don't think that this is the thing to do. And just before his friend had passed away in a car accident, he had told his friend that I was dating, that he did love me, but I didn't find out that information because his friend had passed away. So that's another huge hurdle that him and I have been navigating as well. Which is that he told someone that he loved you? Yeah. Well, somebody that was close to him, but he passed away. The thing that I've been struggling with, I think the most is that I worry that he thinks that something happened more so with him and nothing ever ended up happening.

Did you have a conversation? I mean, I guess what conversations do you have with this person about your relationship? So he's openly said that he does want to be with me. Both him and I are navigating. He's got kids. I don't have kids. He's trying to figure out what's going on with his children before we end up getting together. What is he trying to figure out?

He's still currently living with his ex-partner because of financial reasons. Okay. That's complicated for sure. Yeah. It's extremely complicated. That doesn't stop you guys from, like, getting coffee or ice cream and, and, be, you know, it might stop you guys. It certainly is complicated.

It might be something you have to navigate around, but it doesn't necessarily have to stop you guys from being together. Do you have any reservations about his relationship status with his ex-partner? I do sometimes, yeah. That's part of the reason why I don't know if I should end it because I don't want to ruin a really good friendship that I've had for 25 years. Yeah, well, I mean, like sometimes, you know, sometimes. relationships past the point of no return. I mean, it doesn't sound like you guys have a ton of, like, healthy communication.

Yeah. It would require a lot of communication to tick a relationship backwards, you know? Short of you guys both being like, yeah, we, listen, we tried romantically, it didn't work out. We both accept that. No hard feelings, but we do value each other's friendships. Let's do that. I mean, it's possible, but you both have to want to do it. it. I'm still a little confused by the neurodivergency aspect of the story.

It's mainly because I just found out. I just found out like within the last few months. What did you find out again? Remind me. My mom told me that I was narrow divergent. Your mom's not a doctor. No. But she she thinks that I am autistic to a certain degree. If it's something you're really concerned about, you should see a doctor. You know, I want to be careful with how I say things because, you know, listen, maybe you are, I don't know. I think, again, that's something a doctor needs to diagnose. And it sounds like the way you're talking to me is like this mom's diagnosis has really thrown you for a loop. Like it's, it's like hit you like a ton of bricks. It has. But I'm just, but A, again, she's not a doctor and what's changed other than your mom

self-diagnosing you? Like, I'm just wondering why mom's diagnosis is, is, is, bothering you so much. She's always been super critical of everything that I do in my life. And I'm going to use my sister's situation for example. She's had seizures and she's been diagnosed with epilepsy and she's kind of been the main character in my parents' life. And I've always expressed a lot of the things that I've struggled with in my life. And instead of them having the grace for me, like they do for her. I haven't received that. So navigating and doing big life adult things and choosing people that matter to you

has been a struggle for me because of the main character syndrome. Okay. Yeah. I mean, that's probably pretty relatable for like, you know, family dynamics. Are you, do you get therapy? Are you in therapy at all? I try not to. I lean more deeply in my faith. I'm more into Bible studies. I follow Taylor Welsh very heavily. Okay. How has that helped you? Why can't you do both?

The application, so with Taylor Welsh, he helps with like the application of what the Bible reads and how you apply it to your life a little bit better as opposed to just hearing the words and then trying to apply it because I struggle with like the like I I understand it to a certain degree but applying it to what's going on right now didn't make sense so his podcast has really helped me and who is he's just a podcaster um he actually does like business coaching and stuff like that but yeah but he's not like a he's not a doctor or spiritual leader okay um i'm glad it's helped you i mean but it sounds like maybe it hasn't helped you as much as it you know Like, I guess like what, because like, listen, like you're describing some, like, some, some wounds from your childhood that have carried over in an adulthood.

Yeah. And it sounds like you're looking for some answers. Yeah. And I, yeah. I know that this is not the place to do it because I know that you're not an expert by any means, but. I mean, listen, like this other guy, I'm happy to talk through stuff with you. And I hope that you find it somewhat helpful.

Yeah. I just like again, I just, you, it sounds like you are looking for answers, correct? Yeah. Yeah. And I'm just curious, is like, is it against your faith therapy or something? Why are you resistant to the possibility of getting answers from someone who is a professional? I've struggled with finding the right one. I've been to, I've been to therapists for the, like, pretty much quarterly every year.

And I haven't really found any of that. advice helpful by any means. Is there a particular bit of advice that you got that you didn't find helpful? I just, I feel like I spend more time talking about what my situations are and then I, I need answers and a lot of it is like trying to navigate my mom's in my relationship as opposed to my personal relationships. Okay. So it sounds like maybe you need to set some healthy boundaries with mom.

I had to, I had to cut my mom off. Okay. And that's been, been a little bit more. been easier on me. It's made me navigate my life a lot easier, but it still doesn't change the fact that I struggle to find the answers in my own personal life. So. Yeah. No, I hear you. But I, like, so if we cut mom off, why is mom diagnosing you, throwing you for subchal loop? I don't. I don't know if she's trying to make up for lost time in her, with her being a mom and not really being there for me. And she's, I feel like she's just kind of grasping at straws and throwing

fire bowls at me if that makes sense yeah maybe i don't know maybe like i don't know that's your sister has sounds like has some health conditions for whatever reason your mom i don't maybe connect like it allowed your mom to like i guess but it sounds like more than anything you just like it sounds like you just have some poor communication with your partner the friend that sounds like you know so you have that relationship you're trying to figure out you have your relationship with your mom. I'm trying not to focus on my mom's in my relationship as much because she hasn't really made me feel like I mattered. And after I've, after I've said that I loved him, I don't know how I'm supposed to either one rein my relationship back or continue to move forward with it.

Do you love him? I do. Do you think he loves you? I know he does. Okay. So that's a great start. Yeah. Why don't you guys focus on that? What have you guys talked openly to each other about the love you have for each other? We, we have talked openly. He, he does get overwhelmed every once in a while about it. And what do you mean by that? He tends to distance himself every time the topic comes back up. So when you guys talk about each other's feelings, he, he, he leaves? Yeah, he bolts. Okay, that's not good. How do you know he loves you then? I can only go based on what he said. And I can only take what he said at face value to a certain point.

How do you take his actions at face value? He's always, so he's always been the type of person that's shown up for me. So after his friend died, he, I used to work in, I used to work in wireless, just like you did. and he used to come up to my kiosk often to come and visit with me. We are now since self-employed and we do what we can do what we can to meet up in between and go for coffee and stuff like that. But after we have opened up about our feelings, he's been bolting more because of him being overwhelmed.

How do you know it's him being overwhelmed? He's got a lot going on in his life with his business. And then I've got a lot going on with my business. I mean, I, you know, we all have a lot going on. What does that stop him from? Usually, like, you know, I know, I know, I know, like, sometimes, like, you know, the truth can be a little scary, but usually when you find out someone loves you and you love them, it's usually a good thing. Yeah. And I can certainly understand why maybe it's just like, oh, wow, that was a lot to take in and maybe sit with it for a night.

but you're describing a theme, which is he kind of disengages for periods of time. And then it also sounds like, since you also diagnosed him as autistic, it almost is suggesting it's easier for you to think he's autistic and that's why he disengages rather than maybe just something else that's more. It's possible, yeah. Yeah.

To me, it's just like if, I don't know what a diagnosis does for you, you two other than if it's just like helping you better understand how your brain works and then maybe learning some tips and tricks given how your brain works to help you know deal with situations you know like coping mechanisms you know helping with anxiety um things like that these are and these would probably you would probably get these from some kind of expert of autism you know if that is the case, but like you need to stop self-diagnosing. Yeah.

If you actually think you are, you should go get a diagnosis. I think that's a good idea. And yeah, and I appreciate you listen to this podcast. I hope you find the things we talk about this helpful. But if you have some real, you know, hurdles in your life that you're having a hard time navigating on your own, it's okay to get the help of a professional, you know, to help work through some of these these challenges. I'm glad you have a faith-based life, and I hope that brings you peace and comfort, but I hope it's, I hope it's also getting you somewhere. I hope it's helping

you, you know, and it doesn't sound like it's helping you with. Understanding my brain, you mean? Yeah. I don't know what, I don't know what my mom is trying to solve with. I don't know. Who cares? Yeah, I don't know your mom. I mean, you know, parents, who, she doesn't know. Maybe, maybe she's just, maybe she's got our own family trauma. I don't, you know what I'm saying? Again, like, yeah. So what you're describing is your sister had a condition and you feel like your mom

really connected with your sister over that condition in a way that you felt almost kind of forgotten as a child. Yeah. And you and your mom ever since have had a very complicated relationship and you've had a hard time connecting with your mom, which is sad. And it's another thing that you probably want to deal with. I also don't want it to. my my personal life to a certain degree either so yeah but it is and you know but you have to just deal

with that yeah as far as your relationship goes that i am having a hard time kind of reading it but i again more than anything until he gets diagnosed i would stop telling yourself he is yeah a lot of people deal with anxiety a lot of people have a hard time dealing with stress a lot of people disengage there's a a million reasons why that's possible. Maybe he is until, you know, if you're actually, if he's actually thinks he might be, he should get diagnosed. Simply just naming it and just being like, well, you know, I'm autistic, he's autistic. And I guess that's why we have a hard time connecting.

I don't think is the best path forward for you to think that way. Because then it just kind of becomes a label that you kind of use at your convenience when you don't, you have a when you can't explain how you feel or what's going on your life you just throw a label at it which is almost like therapy talk which is something that i hate yeah i mean it's yeah um very much so and again like i i don't know you know the the fact that you're not totally confident in his relationship set of his ex i don't think it's anything to do with whether he or you are autistic you know that's just a trust thing i think it's more overwhelm and maybe our feelings are not there is I guess that's where my heads at right now I just don't know if my feelings

are there as much as they were and I don't know if it's worth it to be romantic with him is I guess what I'm struggling with well that's only for you to decide no yeah but does he bring you happiness do you know again like it's like what do you what kind of life what do you want with him I mean you know you're you guys are both adults like in an adult romantic relationship because should be talking about, you know, A, is this real? Doesn't sound like it's all that real to him. I don't think he's capable of being in a relationship.

He's proven that. He might need some therapy. He might need a process of his emotions. He might deal with stress a little bit better. Maybe there's a world where some medication could help him. I don't know. But he is capable of being in a relationship. And him disengaging, you know,

I don't, might just be, he is incapable of being in the relationship. that you want to be in, regardless of the reason. Yeah. So it sounds like I should probably just give up on it. Move on. Maybe, I mean, if you don't think there's a path forward, I mean, if you don't think you can talk to him about this stuff ever without him disengaging the way he does,

if you can't get a clear answer from him, if you're constantly just sitting around guessing how he feels or guessing his motives and then coming up a diagnosis that are, you know, to try to help explain it that are just best guesses. Yeah, it sounds like a very difficult path forward. But if you can communicate, you know, you just, yeah. Well, I guess the reason why I struggle with it is because when he goes off radar, he, I just live my life and then he comes back and then he goes off and then he comes back. And it's a constant yo-yo with my life.

And I'm like, hey, dude, like, what do you want at this point? Well, are you asking what he wants or what you want? What he wants. Well, yeah, what you want is a someone who doesn't pop in and out. Mm-hmm. But when he does pop in, you don't, you just accept him. You just, you just let him back in. There have been times where I wasn't, like, when I was in relationships where I wouldn't let him come back.

Okay. I told him that I, I, I can't do it. Yeah, I was in a relationship. And. So there was like an obvious, like, reason why you couldn't do that. You were in a relationship with someone. else, but as a single person, you can still enforce that boundary, but you're choosing not to. Yeah.

That's what everybody's been trying to tell me, and I should probably just accept it at the point. Yeah, maybe. The way that I look at it is it's my life, too, and I don't really want to keep having this yo-yo in my life because I do have other people in my life that are interested in being with me and having a relationship with me. And I don't want to say that I've held out hope for him being in my life by any means. But because I was single and he reached out and he's single at the same time, it's just kind of what are we going to do now?

But I honestly think that he probably is taking advantage of me if he's popping in and out. probably yeah and that's just good old-fashioned selfishness if i could diagnose well i find this i found this helpful i'm i did find this helpful i don't know what more else to say about this yeah well i'm glad you found it helpful but again i just again my biggest thing is like just be very careful with diagnosing yourself or letting other people diagnose if you think there's truth to what people are saying by all means go talk to an expert, but let's, let's not use self-diagnosis as an internet, you know, clips is a, is a more convenient way to explain things you can't explain. And yeah, it sounds like, listen,

you have a lifetime with this guy and it sounds like you had some hope and some love there, but you care about him and he probably cares about you, but he's, you know, neither of you you are willing to do what it takes, you know, and it requires both of you. And like you said, you, it sounds like you have a life that you've put on hold for this guy and you need to stop, you should stop doing that. Yeah. And I would just encourage you to be maybe open about therapy. And maybe just finding the right therapist is really important. Maybe you haven't found that person yet. You can still have a faith-based life. You can still listen to whatever podcast you want. But like, and again, like, I think people can be over-therapies. I think there's a bad therapist out there.

You know, be, you know, but the trick is, is finding someone you feel like hears you, you know, and helping you move forward and helping you understand yourself a little bit better. And there's definitely someone out there who I'm sure it can help. Especially with the relation to your mom, it just might require like some good therapy. Just for no other reason,

just so you can be at peace with where your relationship is with your mom. And right now you, you know, like it's, I see your head spitting where you're just like, you don't even really understand what's going on with your mom. And you've made a choice to like cut her off, but it sounds like you're not even comfortable with that choice,

but it's like the lesser of two evils. Yeah. And if you are going to cut your mom off, maybe that is a necessity. But I'd love to, I'd love for you to be more confident about your decision and understand why you made that decision, feel good about that decision. And even understand if there's a, if this is a temporary decision? Is this a permanent decision? Is there a goal with this decision?

You know, it just sounds like a reactive choice you made. And you don't really know if it was the right choice. Definitely don't. Definitely don't feel like it's the right one. I'm a very loyal person. I don't like cutting people off in my life. Yeah, especially your parents. Yeah.

If I were you, I would want to understand that decision I'm making. And I'd want to feel, you know, that you're going to ever feel good about it. But there are people out there who have had to cut their family members off. And while that wasn't a fun decision, they were better for it. And they felt good about it because it, you know, maybe it was like a, again, not ideal in the lesser of, like I say, two bad choices. But, you know, it may be brought them peace. because the person they had to cut off was was bringing a lot of negativity in their life yeah and it sounds you're you the way you talk it sounds like you no offense or like

heard the idea on a podcast and we're like fuck it well to try this see how it's pretty much i do my very best to try any opportunity to get answers in my life and i've always appreciated your advice and I wanted I wanted to see what you had to say about it yeah and I appreciate you calling and I and I I really am grateful that you you trust me but like again like you know this show is about just kind of talking about relationships and best practices and you know the thing like I've kind of said before the thing I'm really good at is you know I've there's been a lot of situations in my life that are where I've gotten stuck on people in situations and a lot of that I've had to realize was just my perspective on the situation. And I've, I've gotten good at seeing the big picture.

I've gotten better at empathizing with the other side. You know, but some of these situations that people find themselves in do stem from childhood traumas and, and are more complex and complicated that require, you know, ongoing conversations and probably the help of an expert. And that, you know, this show or any other podcast can't replace that if that is a need. All right. Yeah. Well, this has been helpful. Okay.

Well, I'm glad. I wasn't sure if I was being helpful, but... No, it has helped. I know that it's complicated, and I didn't know where... I didn't know where to land on this, because a lot of things have changed in how I feel since I wrote in to you. So I wanted to make sure that... Okay.

I at least got some answers from you because that's why I reached out. Well, I appreciate you reaching out. I appreciate you listening. I'm glad you're a fan of the show, and I'm glad you find this show helpful. But like, you're stuck, right? And you need to get unstuck. And you need to get some answers. And your answers need to feel helpful.

And it needs to feel like you are getting some clarity. And it doesn't sound like all these answers you've gotten, even from this show has actually helped you get unstuck. Yeah. And I think that is a sign that maybe someone who is more of an expert can help you do that. I really appreciate that advice. Okay. Well, I hope you have a good day.

You too. Appreciate the call. Take care. Okay, bye-bye. How's it going? Great. How are you? I'm great.

How are you? Great. What's your name? My name's Pam. Okay. And I'm 29. Okay. And how can I help?

I don't know how to date. Okay. Why do you say that? I guess I've never really dated before, so... Ever. I don't know how. Well, I was married, but like... Okay.

I feel like that kind of just like I fell into that, so... Sure, but... Okay, so off the bat, you are definitely like underselling your experience and ability. You don't think so? Not really. Okay. I don't think so. Tell me about your marriage quickly.

I don't know. It wasn't great. But like we were friends before. So like it just, you know, happened. How old were you? We started dating when I was like 20 and then I got married at 21. Okay. And how long have you been divorced?

Over three years. Okay. And what have you been doing for the past three years when it comes to your love life? Not much. Recently I tried downloading like dating apps. Okay. That's a... Been striking out.

What do you mean striking out? I don't know. It just hasn't gone well. Yeah. It doesn't go well for anyone. Yeah. So don't beat yourself up. But so like you don't like anyone.

You don't feel like anyone likes you or just no one's really talking and just like, do you feel like you're getting rejected? Yeah, for sure. How so? Like what's going on that makes you feel rejected on the apps? Well, like they'll just like not answer, which is fine. But like I think I also prompt it. How so?

What do you mean? Well, like, I think that, like, I don't see a whole point to, like, talking too much on an app. Like, I'm like, oh, like, let's just meet. Yeah. So, like, I'll be like, oh, so when do you want to ask me out? And then just, great. Okay. Well, I mean, unfortunately that is.

I wouldn't take that personally. And if anything, that's just, you know, so much about dating. So, you know, I know you feel like you have no dating experience or ability. But, like, so much about dating is just, it's, it's like sales. I mean, you're ultimately selling your. And as someone who used to work in sales, you know, it's like you have to get a hundred nose before you get one maybe. And you kind of get used to that mentality and you don't take it personally type of thing.

And dating is a little bit of like that, right? Because you want everyone to love you and be obsessed with you. And then you want to choose from that pool of people who are obsessed with you. And that's just kind of not reality, right? And then you incorporate the dating apps where you have, you know, it's become a hot or not thing. It's become like a hookup app. and it's become something people do when they're bored,

and they're just kind of unserious, and everyone has their dating horror stories, and it's like, you know, and so when you are, you know, trying to set up a date, and they don't get to respond. It feels like rejection. It's not,

they're not rejecting you. They don't even know you. They, they see a picture or two, and regardless of whether the pictures are great and you think they're completely accurate, they're like, I don't know,

I don't even know if it's really her, you know, like, I just, you know, it's like everyone's been ghosted or catfished or whatever, you know, everyone, who, anyone who's been on the dating app for any period of time has gone on a date with someone where like, that is not the person in the picture. What the fuck? You know what I'm saying?

So now when a guy is like, I don't know, do I want to spend 150 bucks on this stranger? I don't fucking know, you know, you know, it's a lot of that. It's definitely not you, right? So the most important thing if you're going to go on the apps is to you really have to not take it personally, especially with communication with strangers. Like, you haven't even confirmed they're human yet, you know? I did confirm one person was a human. Okay. Good.

And they still ghosted me. And how did you know they were a human? Well, like, we like followed each other on Instagram and then. We had a mutual. Okay. And they're actually, like, dating somebody right now. Or, like, their brother's dating on them. Okay.

Okay. Well, listen, you're, I don't know you at all. You seem like a wonderfully eligible bachelorette, so to speak. Like, there's, you're not Quasimoto. You're a good looking person, you know, I don't know. Like, you're just, you clearly have stuff going for you. You just have to, like, and I think more than, maybe there's a confidence thing you have to find, you know, Are you, do you live in a like a big city, small city, small town?

Small city. Small city. Do you have a single friends, a lot of single friends? Um, not a lot, no. Okay. A few, any? Yeah, like one. One, okay.

And do you have fun with her? No one, hey, listen, like a lot of. Sometimes. Are you going out outside of work? Not really. Okay. So you might, okay, so you have a, okay, it sounds like you have a just kind of very, you're a very comfortable lifestyle at 29 years old that you've carved out for yourself you like that

life you need to change some things about it for the sake of what you want for yourself long term it sounds like because you're not going to meet anyone you know and you you probably have a small circle i have like small circles are great are you a little introverted yeah okay yeah same but you're going to have you're going to have to get out of your comfort zone a little bit to make some, make some things, to make some changes in your life. You want things to change, right? Like, by definition, you want to date. You're not dating now. So it's going to require some change. And I think step one is you kind of being comfortable with that and kind of like baby steps, right? Like maybe like encourage yourself to this one friend that you have to go out and get some drinks.

Just get out, you know, just go out and go out where men are, you know, get out there, be social. maybe join some kind of after work, you know, social, you know, co-ed volleyball, I don't know, whatever it is. You got to put yourself in situations where there are other people. There's just a lot of lonely people out there and there's just a lot of people like yourself who, people like me look at you and go, how could she have a hard time dating, right? But you're just not, you're not getting yourself out there. You're not putting yourself in situations that, you know, you're surrounding yourself with other people are like, yeah, I really like to meet someone, right? And the apps are not that place, right? And so I think that's step one is to kind of change your day-to-day

routine. And it sounds like you have probably a fairly structured routine and you're, and you like it. It's comfortable. You're, it's, you know, but it's, it's not, it's not allowing you to meet a lot of people. Is that fair? Yeah. I guess that's fair. And I guess like when I do go out, I don't need anybody. so then I don't feel like it's worth it to go out more. Yeah, you're going to have to have some patience. And then being the introverted person who's probably quiet and you're not like, you know, it's and you probably are more intimidating than you realize to approach. You know, you're, and that's why, you know, whether it's like a co-ed, like an activity where

like you, you are forced to talk to people rather than sitting at a table with this one girlfriend and having a one on conversation and looking like two girls who are having a, girls night and they don't want to be approached by men and as an introverted person you have to put yourself in situations that make it easy for you because it's not easy for you to like you're never you know you're probably not the person who's going to go out and start hitting on guys and that's this a lot harder to do no i don't think so yeah right nor do you need to be that person it's just like it's getting out there and finding more girlfriends that are also single and i honestly think that's step one is just like find more people who are in the same stage of life as you

and I think that can make it a lot easier. You know, as far as dating, yeah, I mean, you know, I don't know if there's like, I don't think you need me, need me coaching you on, like, asking, you know, like, I don't know, you just, you know how to get to know people. I guess. Yeah. I don't know.

We'll see. To be determined. I think you also, like, want to, I think you want a little bit more of, if possible. You know, I think you need some kind of confident boost, you know, like, you know, you're just, you're, you're, you're kind of like, I'm, I don't know, I'm like whatever, you know, like, why should someone date you? What do you think you bring that? Yeah, if con. What do you, what do you bring to the table? I'm the table. No, that's funny. But no, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. A lot, but,

I mean, what do you like to do? I think I'm funny. I don't think other people think I'm funny, but I think I'm funny. You have a dry sense of human. humor, your acquired taste. Great. So you need to find someone else with a dry sense of humor. And I'm guessing you're funny in smaller groups one-on-one, you know, with, right? Like you're not the funny per, you're not a stand-up comedian who's walking into a bar and getting everyone to laugh. Okay, great. So you're funny, right? You, you, you appreciate a sense of humor that you dive with. Great. Okay. So you're looking for that. Like, what do you like to do for fun? What do you? What do you want, what are the things you enjoy doing that you would love to enjoy doing it with someone that you

romantically liked? Like activities. Okay. Like what? Like anything like skiing or like going for like walks with my dog or like anything. Like things. Like playing games. Okay.

Like what kind of games? I don't know. Like board games, tennis. Like anything. Tennis. All right. So you like skiing? You like tennis?

You know, maybe there's, I don't know. Maybe you're a small city. there's a pickleball. I mean, the pickleball is a big thing. I don't know. It's tennis-ish. Like I. But you know what I'm saying?

Back to the hole, you're going to have to find the things that you like doing. And then you're going to have to try to find other people who like doing them. And that just makes the, it makes it easier to connect with people because it's like, oh, we're doing this activity. Walking your dog is a little different, you know. But I don't know, going to what, do you go to dog parks? Yeah. Okay.

Do you ever see a guy with this dog? No. No? No. Okay. No. Okay. What's the thing about dating that makes you the most nervous? Is it just the meeting them?

Yeah, I think, like, all of it. Like, meeting them for sure. Like, I think, like, all of the initial stuff is very scary in my head. Okay. I don't know. It's not that scary. What's the worst thing that can happen? Well, yeah.

No, I know when you think of it like that. like nothing like can really bad happen other than they could be a serial killer yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I get you could get murdered yeah there's that you could definitely get murdered yeah uh we acknowledge we acknowledge we acknowledge that outside of the worst case scenario but I guess like listen you have you kind of have I'm a low energy guy often you have a low energy kind of vibration to you which is totally okay but I think people like you and people like me I guess in that regard are a little harder to meet and a little harder approach. And it's going to, you're going to have to challenge yourself to get out there and put yourself in situations where you're a little easier to approach. And you feel a

more comfortable to show a little bit more higher energy, you know, because like the, your resting state, and I say this is a low energy kind of guy, is like, doesn't just give fun and, and, and I'm sure you are. But like, you know, I'm saying you you you you're comfortable with your like you're clearly are comfortable enough with yourself to be yourself most of the time which a lot of people aren't you know right like you you don't you don't need constant you're not like one of those people pleasers who like you just need constant validation from people I'm guessing right not anymore but I feel like you know when I was younger we've all been there but it is going to you're you're going to definitely

have to get out of your comfort zone, I think is more than anything when it comes to dating is you're going to have to challenge yourself. There's going to be most moments, when it comes to you dating, most of the things that I'm like, you're going to be like, I don't want to do it, I don't know. It's this going to be easier for you to not. It's going to be easier for you to stay home. It's going to be easier for you to put on a movie. It's just going to be easier for you to not. But doing nothing is not going to get you where to want to go. And you're just going to, you're going to have to, I mean, like, you know, I moved to a long time, you know, I moved to Chicago. I didn't really know a lot of people. I went to the, I went to dinner by myself and set at the

bar. There was a lot of like, I'm a fucking loser thoughts going out of my head. And then I learned how to be like, you know what? I'm good for me for going out to a bar and sitting in by myself. And I didn't meet, I didn't mean, I didn't meet anyone dating that day. I mean, you know, it's interesting interactions. But like, I just, you got to get out. You got to get out of your comfort zone. But like by myself. Well, you're a woman. So, yeah. I mean, listen, I was a guy's little safer for me to do that. But I don't know, just mix it up. Just try some, do some things that you would think I would never do that. Even if it is, I mean, make sure you're safe, but even if it is going to a bar on a busy, on a Friday night, you'd have no plans, there's this restaurant you want

to try and you go post up at a bar and have a nice meal, you get a glass of a line, whatever. No expectations. You're not sitting there looking around, you know, and most likely, you'll just be a by yourself, alone at a bar, and you'll go home, no big deal. That's fine. You got food, but who knows? But that's just you getting comfortable with not sitting at home and doing what you would normally do, which is nothing. You know? And you just have to get good at exercising that muscle, which is to get out of your comfort zone and try things out. You kind of called with this lack of experience.

I got married when I was young and then I was married, it wasn't great, then I got divorced. And I don't know what to do with myself. And part of that is like you're just really comfortable. with being your, which is a great quality to have. There's so many people who aren't comfortable, you know, they're, they're kind of camellions. Like, you have, you got the hard part figured out, which is like, you know who you are, you know what you want. Like, I'm guessing, you know, like, when I went out to the bars and, you know, when I was younger and it was like, shaws. And I'm like, no, I'm not doing that. Like, I had a own problem being like, no,

I don't do it. You know? I'm not a follower. There's a lot of people struggle with that. You don't struggle with that. You're struggling. Your, your biggest challenge is yourself is to get out of your own way. And, and, and because you're so good at being like, I don't want to do that. And you're going to have to tell yourself, we need to do this. And it might be uncomfy. It might not get anything out of it in the short run. You're not, you're not doing it to meet people. You're doing it to just get the fuck out of the house and, and, and change things up and, you know, bring some new people, some new energy into your life. Okay. Does that sound doable? I can do that. Okay. Yeah. Because that, that's definitely the start. I would,

I would honestly try to like look at like what are some, like, what are some activities that are, you know, again, like the world's a lonely place. And I think there are, and more and more people are recognizing that. And there's a bit of a renaissance of people realizing we have to like get out. I don't know. I mean, it's, and as corny as it sounds, and honestly, you'll probably make your skin crawl. But like, there are speed dating events. There are, you know, there are, I, you're right.

But like, just try it out. Do you bring the girlfriend, have some fun. You don't have to take it that seriously. You just need to get the fuck out. Yeah. And you need to meet some people. And so you have to put yourself in situations where it's easy for someone to ask, you know, just to be a human with you. To it, it, they don't have to build up the courage to say hi.

You're just there, you know, on the volleyball team. And then maybe there's some organic flirting and maybe, you know, got, you know, like, oh, she's cute. And, you know, you're like, oh, he's cute. And I don't know. And then you go from there. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes sense. And the apps, you know, take them or leave, it's, that is, it is something to do.

It might work. Have the lowest of expectations. And the moment a dating app makes you feel bad about yourself, stop. Take a break. Okay. Because that's all it does. It's a validation thing that so often makes us feel worse about ourselves. And if you don't have that kind of awareness and self-complicated,

confidence, which it's hard to have when it's the dating apps. And if you're like, this makes me feel bad, I don't like, just, just take a break. Try it out in the future. I don't know, but you should have the absolute lowest of expectations with dating apps. It's anything that happens is a way. I mean, truly, you'll probably call back in six months. Be like, yeah, I find my husband on a dating app. Anything's possible. But you need to get out there. And yeah, you need to get out of your comfort. Your biggest problem right now is you're really comfortable with your current life. And you're just, but you. I love my life.

Yeah, which is great. But you need a, you need to tweak it a little bit because you don't have everything you want. Yeah, that's fair. So, is this helpful? I don't know. I feel like this is, I'm. Yeah.

Yeah. It's kind of helpful. Okay. Well, I'll take kind of. Yeah. Listen, you have a lot going for you. You clearly, you're obviously a catch. You're not for everyone.

And you just, you have to allow people to get to know. you and you're probably difficult to get to know. Okay. Yeah. And that's okay. I think that's it. I'm not easy to get to know, you know, and I don't want, I don't want, like, fuck, I don't, you know, I'm not, I'm not here to entertain people. You know what I'm saying? But like, this is because, because you want this and you're, there's something you don't have that you want and it's going to require you to get out of your comfort zone and make some different choices in the short term so you, you know, so that you can find your equally low energy person or someone who's a little high energy who gets it out, you know, but find your person, a person that kind of is your match and, and you're, you're doing it. And then you guys can

not go out once you find, once you find each other. You can not do the, you know, but it doesn't, you know, bowling, whatever, whatever the fuck, you know, try it out. Challenge yourself to mix it up. And honestly, like, you know, find more, you know, try to find some going out friends. Okay. Yeah, I can do that. Okay. Any other questions? I hope, I hope this is. helpful. This is a, this is a tougher one. No, it was helpful. Yeah. Sorry. No, no, I don't. You got a lot going for you. And then the, I mean, you know, like, you've been married, so you know what it's like to be in a relationship. You've certainly had a lot of practice with that. You know, certainly what, what you don't like, that's for sure. Yeah. That's a step in the right. That's a step in the right direction.

The rest of it is just, it's a lot of travel. It's, again, it's sales. And you know what it's, And you don't like a lot of people, and you have that going for you. So don't take it personally if someone's not, you know. Yeah, that's true. That's the thing. Yeah. Cool. Yeah.

All right. Well, keep us post that I love to know how your dating life goes and if we've made some progress. Okay. I'll just know how it goes. All right. All right. All right. All right.

Thank you. All right. All right. Bye-bye.