The Viall Files - Lindsay Hubbard Speaks

Episode Date: June 5, 2024

Welcome back to The Viall Files! Today, Summer House’s Lindsay Hubbard joins us to talk about her devastating separation from Carl Radke. In this episode, we get the full timeline from Lindsay, as she walks us through their entire relationship. Moving from friends to fiancés, we break down the steps that lead to Carl breaking off their engagement.  With the finale aired, and the reunion coming up shortly, we’ve learned so much since hearing about the initial breakup. Who was in the right? Did anyone “win” the breakup? Was this for the best? You decide.  “I had to change everything about me to be with him.” Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @lindshubbs @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell 

What is going on everybody? Welcome to a bonus episode of The Vile Files. What's on the, I don't know, is it really a bonus? We're just popping it up to the top of the charts, so to speak. It's a reminder. It's a reminder. It's a reminder. We obviously talked a lot about this episode throughout the season of Summer House.

We recorded it. Back in November. Back in November, shortly after the announcement of the breakup between Lindsay and Carl, Lindsay graciously came in, shared her truth. And what was very fascinating is because we only had her truth, we didn't have Carl's truth. I think Carl might've tried to record something,

it's never seen the light of day in terms of Carl's response before the season came out. Lindsay graciously did. But then it was kind of like a wait and see to see if her truth, her story, kind of lined up with what we saw on camera. And we've been waiting a while. Yeah, and then obviously the season unfolded

and then we had to kind of watch it unfold. There's, you know, we've been team Carl, we've been team Lindsay, ultimately, we've kind of talked about this. We all agree with the masses that probably best is not together. That being said, I think it's really fascinating to hear this episode now after we've watched

the breakup unfold in between the reunion going on, and in preparation for part one of the reunion that airs tomorrow. Question, would you say that you, Nick Byall, was blindsided or blind after listening to her interview and watching the show? Blind.

Okay. I was blind. There you go. I think I was blind. There you go. I think I was blind because I think what this, and I'm curious what y'all will think after re-listening to it. And if you've already listened to the episode, I urge you to stick around and listen to it again.

Listen again. If you were invested the first time. I think it's a completely different episode now. It's almost like a different interview. Yeah. Yeah. I think I was blind because I think it's, you have to really look at the nuanced part of this. You have to look at the TV side

and you have to look at the real life side. Kind of like we often do discussing Vanderpump and Ariana. Carl made the TV decision and, you know, and as fans of the show we're grateful and I think Lindsay so much of the questions about being blindsided and things like that I think we are discounting the shock and the trauma of of having an engagement end even if you know that engagement is riddled with stresses and toxicity and conflict.

Most people in very committed relationships don't have one foot out the door. They're all in until it's over. And Lindsay's a perfect example of that. So I think to discount her emotions and for anyone to say, including Carl. Again, I would love to hear Carl's take on this. I feel like we're discounting the human side of all this.

Yeah, I completely agree. I think that their relationship was, there were no surprises. This is always how they've communicated. This is always who Lindsay's been. So I think she was totally blindsided because it's not like she was blind like this is how their relationship has always been. Yeah. They, we all agree they should not be together but you know they were in the relationship it's easier to look outside

of it than to be inside of it. Yeah ultimately like listen I think as a fan we watch these shows and we would try to pick a winner. There's no winner and loser. Breakups suck. Feelings get hurt. Carl had the right to leave this relationship. Carl made the healthy decision, I think. Chose what was better for him and Lindsay. I don't fault Carl for ending the relationship.

That was the healthy thing to do. It's just more when someone in Lindsay's shoes is on the receiving end of this, I think we kind of have to allow that person to express how they feel, however, how whatever it is they feel. And Lindsay certainly did that. And with that being said, Lindsay Hubbard. What happens when 20 extremely athletic Canadians who thrive on competition and

won't settle for less than number one, find themselves on a team? Taking on jaw dropping obstacles all across Canada is one thing, working together on a team with some pretty big personalities is another. It's a new season of Canada's Ultimate Challenge, and sparks are gonna fly. New episode Sundays, watch free on CBC Gem. All right, Lindsay, should we do these shots?

Yeah, by the way, we met before. I was, where? Was it at? It was at like a friend's Super Bowl party. I told you. In February of like 2019. I'm like, there's a chance Lizzie's gonna come in and say we've met because I think we met. And this was like... Literally, I looked it up. It was February 2019. So almost five years ago. Was it five years ago?

Yeah. And you were like just talking about Summer House. And I remember like, cool. You're like, I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't know what you're talking about. Like, this is a new show, we filmed it half an hour. I'm like, eight seasons later. What do you know now, Nick?

Yeah, now I'm like begging you to come on. Uh. You're like, how about tomorrow? I'm like, okay, like I have nothing going on, but sure. All right, let's do this. Don't make fun of my face, because I am terrible at shots. Okay, well then don't make fun of mine,

because I don't usually rip shots of tequila. It's two minutes into the afternoon, not the morning. So yay for us. Anything after 12 is great. All right, well here's to two months being single. Okay, on the dot. All right, well here's to two months being single. Okay, on the dot. Both y'all look the exact same.

Yep. Yeah. All right. Ooh, ooh. All right, you ready? This better be juicy. You chasing it with some coffee? Uh-huh. Okay.

All right. You need a chaser too? You did not grow up in Florida. No. Are we all ready? Should we all just take a big deep breath? Just channel our redemptive kind of energy around the mend. We want to spill tea.

Around the mend. Talk some shit. Heal. Peacefully choose violence. Yeah, peacefully choose violence. Yeah, I'm definitely in more of a peaceful mood these days. That's good. First month was definitely violence.

Okay, what a great place to start. Yeah. Lindsay, welcome. Thanks, thanks for having me. It's so good to have you here. Yeah, you know. I haven't asked a guest in a few weeks to kick off an episode, but how is your heart?

My heart is full. Full? And I feel really good about that. I'm in a really good place right now. And you just told us that today marks two months of being single. Yeah, Single Lindsay is back. And now we have a full heart.

Yep. Let's just give a round of applause for... We love... A full heart after two months. That must not have been easy. No, it wasn't. I would say in the beginning, it was like I was operating hour by hour. And when I tell you the entire world found out within 30 minutes of me,

it was chaotic and hectic. And all of a sudden I had to go into hiding because I had to protect my privacy and I had to sort through my emotions and I had to get through the shock of it all. That first week, the first couple of days, it was like hour by hour. And then slowly but surely, as the weeks went on, it was like day by day, and then a couple of days at a time. Then I was able to plan something for two weeks from now, but still operating in the present of day by day. And slowly but surely, I just,

I really like created this war room in my apartment, you know, as I was in hiding because the whole world knew and I couldn't walk down the streets of New York without paparazzi who was stationed outside of my apartment and Dumois, you know, fans taking pictures. And so all my girlfriends just would come over. If you were in New York and you were one of my best girlfriends, you were at my apartment.

I couldn't answer my phone. It was blowing up. I had certain best friends setting up conference calls with other best friends who weren't in New York. If one of you knew, like, you would have to fill in the other one. So it was it was very Hectic so Carl really did this on camera Without giving you any heads up whatsoever. Yeah, that's it was like the ultimate blindsighting of The year for me at least. Um, there was no indication

of the year, for me at least. There was no indication that he was having second thoughts or unhappy or having, you know. So despite Kyle, who recently mouthed off in the press and said how essentially he implied, strongly implied that. I think he pretty much said. That you two were fighting constantly, kind of through couples therapy in your face. Yeah.

Basically saying that you guys were in couples therapy the whole time. We were in couples therapy, but we were not in couples therapy since we started dating, which is what Kyle said. Well, I will just want to point out, just, you may disagree, but I don't like that Kyle said it in a way where people who get couples therapy from a proactive standpoint is somehow a negative. You know, in a sense,

if there's a lot. Kyle's also in couples therapy, so. I don't really like when he's, you know, therapy shaming me for being in couples therapy. Yeah, because I didn't really understand, okay, great, they've been in couples therapy since the beginning. I would argue that would, great,

healthy couple being proactive. So, they've been in couples therapy since the beginning. I would argue that would, great, healthy couple being proactive. So to me, being in couples therapy isn't a sign of anything bad happening. Certainly it wasn't to you, it didn't seem like. No, Carl and I started couples therapy about a year into dating. Okay. Right, and.

So not immediately. No. No, exactly. If you wanna speak to my experience and my relationship, at least get the facts straight. So period. Yeah, period. Dot. So yeah, so Carl and I started dating right after season six, September 2021, September,

October. We started couples therapy in November of 2022. He was going through a really hard time with his job at Loverboy. He was very unhappy. Our communication was off. That honeymoon phase wore off. And, you know, I think in the beginning of Carl and I's relationship, it was like, exciting. Like, oh my God, I just fell in love with my best friend. I've known him for forever. He's known me for forever. And we tried once before, it didn't work out. And now it seems to be working.

And we, you have to add a lot of people in your ears, whether it's, you know, your castmates that you share a house with or, you know, whoever. So. Did you and Carl ever have conversations as a couple getting married, having big plans for the future? Like what conversations did you two have either outside or inside couples therapy about like, how do we separate like TV us versus real us? Or did you have conversations like that? Because to your point, like I couldn't imagine trying to maintain a healthy relationship

and then filming a show that's, you know, just, it's around creating drama. Like every moment you have is like, is this the end of the world or is it not? But we should act like it is and argue about it. You know, so how did you guys? See, I'm the same on and off camera. Okay.

Like I do not change for the cameras. I think what works to my benefit is I just always Like, I do not change for the cameras. I think what works to my benefit is I just always step in shit every season and then, you know, I like wind up creating drama on accident. So nothing was really just off limits between you two and the TV show. No, nothing's ever off limits. We started the show together eight seasons ago

and, you know, we are both very aware. I do think I have more experience being in relationships on camera than Carl does. He never really saw him in a relationship in his adult life. I was kind of that first adult relationship for him. I think he had, he spoke on season one about how he dated some girl, you know,

at some point in his early 20s, but does that really count? Not really. I mean, you change a lot in 10, 12, 15 years, so. Did that concern you in general? Yeah, I mean, it concerned me, but I also was very patient and understanding knowing that, all right, he doesn't have a lot of experience in relationships. I have more in the sense that I've been in and out of relationships in my adult life, you know,

with terrible men, but, you know, still have the experience. I learned a lot how to compromise and how to you know sort of think about somebody else and their needs in a relationship capacity. I'm very much like an open book especially on the show I'm the same on and off camera nothing's exactly off-limits we never spoke about what would be on or off-limits but you also want to have respect for your partner especially your partner who you're supposed to spend the rest of your life with. And you sort of like know in the back of your mind,

okay, like there are certain things that you're not going to overshare, you know, like the details of your intimacy or anything that might happen at home that's a little bit like, you know, walking the line of this might, you know, be a little bit off limits, right? Like, this is just a hypothetical,

but if, like, if Carl was having, like, say, performance issues, maybe you wouldn't bring that up. Correct. Hypothetically. Hypothetically. Hypothetically. But you guys generally had a pretty, hey, we're an authentic couple. I did.

Now I don't know, I think Carl might have, for instance, like last season, when everyone's like, you guys are a little too happy or a little fake, it's a little like too much, like It was a new relationship. What are you supposed to be? It was a new relationship. Carl are you supposed to be? It was a new relationship.

Carl is a very affectionate and loving guy. He's like a big teddy bear who loves to hug and kiss and hold hands. I don't think a lot of people saw that side of him, especially in the house, because we've never seen him in a relationship. And then, boom, all of a sudden, he's with me, and he's like hugging me and loving me and kissing me and all over me. So I think that was a little bit of, you know, a startling experience for everyone else in the house. But he also likes to put his best foot forward. He's a people pleaser. I just, I don't

need the love and admiration from everyone around me. I feel like I'm one of those people where from everyone around me. I feel like I'm one of those people where I'm not your person, you know, to half of the fan base because you just can't stand me and I'm polarizing because I'm direct and straightforward and a straight shooter with my communication. And then there's like the other half that they see me for who I am, which is just very open and honest

and, you know, wear my heart on my sleeve and you get what you get. You're kind of a take it or leave it-er. Yeah, take it or leave it-er. Take it or leave it-er. In this case, a leave it-er. So with the new relationship and people kind of responding to house, you were just like, hey, honeymoon relationship,

people might treat us differently, but people started treating you too differently, including Carl, and do you think that affected him? Yeah, I do. I think, you know, he never was in a position last season where all of a sudden, it's like someone's going up against your girl and you gotta protect your girl. I don't think he understood or had the experience

of how to do that, right? Classic Tom Schwartz. He would, I think he would almost like go numb and get paralyzed, you know, if Kyle's running around the house and screaming at me for 20 minutes straight saying awful shit, or if Craig Conover's, you know, visiting and he's saying some crazy shit, you know, or if the girls are, you know, visiting and he's saying some crazy shit, you know, or if or if the girls are, you know, coming after me, I don't think Carl had the tools to know how to, okay, this is my job

as Lindsay's boyfriend to protect her and stand up for her. Like, I know her, I know her heart, I am with her every day. I wouldn't have fallen in love with her otherwise. And I think that took, you know, it took a lot of watching back for him to be like, okay, I think this is how I'm supposed to act. You know, but yes, last season, we were still in our honeymoon phase and then we leave the summer and we go back to regular life.

And he's conflicted about his job at Loverboy and he's trying to figure out what to do and whether to negotiate with Kyle or quit, or is this working on an alcohol brand for somebody who's sober? Is that the appropriate fit anymore? Has he outgrown and does he want different things? So, you know, I think he was really stressed out about that,

which is around the time that we started going to couples therapy. I think our communication was kind of all over the place. And we also were out of that honeymoon phase by then. That's interesting that you mentioned this, that kind of that boyfriend protector responsibility. We discuss it a lot through Skandoval and Katie and Tom Schwartz. This is kind of a question for the household of ladies

and a question for you, Lindsay. You've dated other people too. Do you think that for some men that comes more instinctually, like hey, I have a girlfriend now, because I think a lot, like Carl, the way you described him and like Schwartz, was like I think a lot of guys grow up have this mentality of like I always have a girlfriend now. Because I think a lot, like Carl, the way you described him and like Schwartz was like, I think a lot of guys grow up having this mentality

of like, I always have your boys back. You know, the whole, you know, bros before hoes, kind of, you know. Bullshit. But it seems like a lot of young men, or maybe not so young, depending on who they are, do they not learn that lesson? Or is it like a rite of passage?

Like how, like with some of the young men that you guys dated, if you guys can go back when you're first boyfriends, but like, did you guys always have to have a conversation about like, hey, it's not always bros before hoes? Kind of to your point, like now in my life, it's just like my instinct will be, the default is Natalie's right.

You know, but you know, but that's the- Sometimes that takes a lot of time for a man to realize. I might, I might like, you know, be like, babe, what the fuck, you know, but you know, but that's sometimes that takes a lot of time to realize I might I might like, you know Be like babe, you know, but like the instinct if there is something going on the instinct is like with somebody else Yeah, the instinct isn't to figure out what's going on. All right, you know, did she offend someone? Did she know the instinct is my partner is I have her back there might be a conversation behind closed doors But what are you doing? But you know, but But the instinct is always to have my partner's back. Correct, and I think that comes from confidence

and security within yourself and knowing who you are so that you can defend your partner. Because what happens is if you don't really know who you are and you're not very secure with yourself and you're not very secure with yourself and you're not very confident and, and, and you as, as a, as a, as a man or as a human, you might be a little bit more hesitant or afraid to defend your partner because you're more worried about what people are going to think of you than you are

about actually protecting your partner. And Carl struggle with that. Well, you know, but I also am a fierce like fighter myself like I can defend myself. I grew up with a brother Sure, I grew up with you know catty jealous girls and and Florida So, you know, I'm like I'm pretty good at you know, just off the cuff defending myself Obviously want to hear all the tea but but like before, but what did work? We know it came to you and Carl, you know, before you broke up and obviously you were blindsided.

What were things about the relationship that made you, you personally, Lindsay, feel like this is my man, this is why I want to be in this relationship. You know, what were the reasons that gave you all the hope that you had and the reasons why you said yes, and the reasons why you're planning a wedding? What was it about the relationship that,

obviously was, for you, sad to let go of? With Carl, the things that worked and why we got into a relationship to begin with, I mean, this was my best friend. We started this show together. It's an experience that not many people in this world can understand. And we spent years and years developing this friendship

that eventually turned into a best friendship. And we spent so much time together on camera, off camera, a lot of time off camera, where we would talk to each other about everything under the moon. And he would come over to my apartment multiple times a week. And, you know, we just, we really developed a bond

that I don't think a lot of people could necessarily see considering, you know, it was during the off season of filming, so fall, winter, spring. We've both gone through a lot of trauma while, you know while being friends. And I think we were extremely trauma bonded. His brother unfortunately passed away and I was right there for him. I went through an accidental pregnancy and miscarriage. I have my own family traumas that I've been working on in therapy for years. He has his own family traumas.

So I think we were just really bonded on so many different levels and we had a lot of similarities like similar sense of humor and lifestyle know, we both enjoy activities and I'm I'm like a sports girl you know, and I love to play sports and so so there was like so many things and when you have a Best friend that you're extremely bonded with on so many different levels and then you fall in love you're like, oh my god Like this is crazy. I can't believe this happened. I went from like, the ultimate fairy tale doesn't exist and I threw myself this twisted fairy tale birthday party, you know, on season six to falling in love

with my best friend and I was like, maybe the ultimate fairy tale does exist. And I don't know, I think it just worked. Like we just really understood each other from so many years of getting to know each other. When he got sober, I was his number one support. Even getting to his one year of sobriety, he was really struggling for the last couple of months.

I was like, okay, I'm going to do this with you. I'm going to commit to going sober with you through the holidays. We're going to do this together, hand Like I'm going to commit to going sober with you through the holidays. We're going to do this together, you know, hand in hand, side by side. And I am going to walk you to that milestone so that you feel comfortable and that you can do this and you have a partner and a teammate. And at that point, we had just started dating. And then I, you know, I wound up going five months without drinking, which was great. I think I felt good, I looked good, I was in the best shape of my life, my skin was better than ever.

And I really enjoyed that partnership and doing something as a team and you know, it really just, it worked in the beginning and in that full first year. And then everything, and then everything started shifting. Were you guys in couples therapy when he broke up with you? We were supposed to go to couples therapy that day that he canceled. So leading up to the breakup, you guys were in couples therapy and you still had no idea.

Yeah, no, he didn't give me any indication. He didn't say anything that would have alluded to, you know, I'm having cold feet or I'm having second thoughts or I'm not ready or I think we need more time, like nothing. He said nothing to me over summer. He said nothing that would have given any clues. I mean, two weeks before he ended things, I was at my bridal shower that he stopped by.

Two weeks, no joke. And it was also simultaneous to my birthday. And he's doting all over Instagram like, oh, my beautiful fiance, I can't wait to marry you in 100 days. Oh my God, happy birthday to the love of my life, my rock, my partner, everything. That was two weeks before the breakup. Then one week, I'm at my first dress fitting, he's at a suit fitting with his boys. One week, One week.

And I'm like, okay, and then, you know, we're talking about inviting, you know, the rest of the cast to the wedding, like the new guy. He was talking to the new guy about, you know, inviting him to the wedding. I'm talking about this. And then three days later, boom. No indication. Complete blindside and whiplash. I think back to these last conversations of that like last Sunday in the house over summer, and I'm just like, okay, was he trying to say something? But why on earth would I ever think

that this is what he's trying to say? Well, also you were in couples therapy. So you would kind of think that if there there were concerns that was space designated for bringing those up and working through them. To your knowledge, who knew before you did? Kyle, maybe there might have been a conversation with his mom. I don't think Kyle knew. I think Kyle was blindsided, too. Really? Yeah.

I really think it was an impulsive, emotional decision out of anger. What do you mean by out of anger? Did you guys get in a fight prior to that? The last two weeks of summer, his demeanor had kind of changed. His attitude changed. The way he was speaking to me,

his combativeness, the things he was saying to me were just like, what is going on right now? Like, this is so confusing. I don't know where this came from. All of a sudden, I had to change everything about me to be with him. Can you give an example?

Okay. It became one of those things where we're having conversations about like, where he wants to go with his career, what he wants to do. Of course, we're having these conversations. We're about to walk down the aisle. This is my partner. We need to financially plan. Like, what are we doing here? We have a very expensive wedding to plan. We, you know, are hopefully going to start a family. Families, children cost a lot of money. All of my friends at this point have young kids at home, one, maybe two, sometimes three,

and it's very, very expensive. Money just disappears. That's all I keep hearing from all of my friends. And I come from a very stable financially, like stable dad who the only thing he grilled into my head was like, you know, make sure you plan, make sure you're saving your money, make sure this. It's a very important conversation for a couple to have. The budget, you know, the broom. Yeah, normal

normal conversation. So I'm over here just like, okay, so like what's the plan with your career and like what do you want to do in life and you know where do you want to work and like here's what I'm doing, and we need to make sure like, we are talking about these conversations. And it all of a sudden became like, well, you need to be softer, Lindsay. And I'm like, what?

And it was like, you need to be softer and nurturing and caring and loving and positive and excited and happy and give me hugs and tell me you're proud of me. And I was like, okay, well, but you're not really telling me something that I should be excited about yet. We're not there yet. Like, I'm just asking you questions about your career. You came and said, hey, babe, just kind of a check-in,

kind of like, hey, just tough, but necessary conversation we need to have. Not even that tough. I'm not even giving an opinion. I'm not. You're just asking questions. I'm not even giving an opinion. I'm not. You're just asking questions. I'm just asking simple questions. And he was like, shut the fuck up.

I just want you to be happy we're getting married. Probably. And I'm just like, okay. And then slowly but surely it turned into, oh, well, I don't want the role of my wife to be somebody who asks questions and gives advice and has opinions. And I'm just like, ooh. First of all, like, we're all very clear,

like, who I am, right? Wrong fucking answer. Yes. And then you have an opinion. Yeah. So that was verbatim. Yeah. And it was just this like. These conversations were happening and I'm like, these conversations were happening and I'm like, what is going on? First of all, you proposed to a girl a year ago

who you've been best friends with for, at that time, seven years. At what point have I ever given anyone who's watched the show for five minutes any indication that I'm some- Cheerleader. Like, well, guess what? I am a great cheerleader, but I'm also-

Like a shut up and- You're not like a sideline. I'm not a 1950s Stepford wife. Yeah, what the fuck? I am a very independent girl who's made my own money since I was 14 years old and has supported myself and has the most ambition and drive to, you know, start a PR firm, to, you know, maintain a PR firm, hustle around New York City and like make money. And you're now telling me I'm not allowed to speak and I have to just listen, which by the way, I gave him that option. I was

like, maybe you just want me to listen in this situation and not give advice or ask any questions. No, I wanna talk it out with you, okay. So like, I just was almost like backed into this weird corner of like, what is happening? I'm so confused right now. Like a month ago, you were totally fine with me giving my opinion and advice. A year ago, when you were quitting Loverboy,

you were totally fine with me being your sounding board. What happened in these last two weeks where your idea and role of a wife for you is to just tell you like you're doing great and I'm so excited for you and I don't really care what happens, but I'm here for you. And no,

like we're planning for our future. Like I have to ask questions. If there, I ask questions to everyone. I'm a very curious person. I have a very active cerebral mind and this is me active listening to you. And it's also my way of showing my love and support because I am involved and I want your happiness.

And if you're happy, I'm happy and we're happy. And how can I help you? And how can I help? And I'm like, the way I am in a relationship is I roll my sleeves up and I give it my all. Like, there is nothing half-assed about me and that's with work, that's when I was a publicist, that's me as a reality star.

Like, whatever it is, I give it over 100%. And that very much includes a relationship. I love with my full heart. I throw every resource at you if you need it. If you tell me you want to go into finance, like guess what? I got the resources for you. If you tell me you want to be a motivational speaker, I got the resources. If you want to start a podcast, I got I got the resources for you if you tell me you want to be a motivational speaker I got the resources if you want to start a podcast I got a podcast producer anything that you want to do

I will throw anything and everything that's in my repertoire and my relationships that I've nurtured for years like at you and and towards you I will love you with my full heart I will you know support you with everything that I have I will love you with my full heart. I will support you with everything that I have. I will give you the patience and understanding. One thing I did learn in couples therapy was how to work on delivery and tone. A lot of miscommunication that happens in relationships starts with the delivery and the tone.

And I'm over here working on that, but it takes two. And I think when it comes to a partnership, it's something that I've always craved and wanted and understood what it takes to get there. And it takes two people, and I just am not certain that he had the tools to understand fully what a partnership is. It sounds almost that you still haven't gotten any true clarity?

About his decision and you're almost doing your best to figure it out. Is that accurate? I I figured it out. But yes. No, I got no answers from him. It was what did you figure out? Probably more answers. I got from myself and my friends Like I said when I when I set up those war rooms in my apartment and just like, you know how women are like we're detectives, you know, I have a lot of emotionally intelligent and emotionally mature women around me who are entrepreneurial and their powerhouses. And, you know, I just,

I sat around and I just put everything on the table. And I, I was like, we're putting everything on the table and we are breaking this down and we're finding these answers because the only way I can move to the next step of moving on and moving forward is if I have some sort of answers and closure. And I wasn't gonna stop those first couple of weeks

until I had them. So, I mean, we just psychologically dissected everything, really broke down every inch and bean of this person. And I saw probably a lot of things that I was maybe overlooking because I was just so in love with him and a lot of inexperience of things that you have to go through emotionally as an adult that I don't think were there. And I just, yeah, there was a lot. I don't think he cheated. I don't think that's something that happened. I don't, you know, I don't think there was any big moment. I just think that he doesn't fully understand commitment

and what it takes to be in a relationship. I'm always surprised to hear that you thought Kyle was surprised, because I kind of just, just following the story from afar watching this past season I would have just it would have made sense if you would have came in here and told me that like Him and Carl were talking a lot recently maybe about his career at lover boy And Kyle planted a couple seeds of doubt, but you don't think there's any of that going on

I mean there could have been there could have absolutely been doubt, but you don't think there's any of that going on? I mean, there could have been. There could have absolutely been points in time over summer where Kyle could have been in Carl's ear. But- You can say some nice things about you at the reunion, last reunion. Kyle did? Yeah. Well, Kyle's had it out for me for years. He always assumes the worst in me, and he always thinks I'm some master manipulator, you know, calculated person.

I'm like, no, I'm just smarter and quicker. I think off, I think on my feet. But yeah, but seeing how Kyle sees you, it just, it wouldn't shut. There could have been, they're sure. They're best friends. But I also think, you know, in his communication, like, might tell you one thing,

and then tell somebody something completely different. So, who knows what those, I guess we'll find out when the season airs, right? But I definitely think someone was in Carl's ear. I just don't know who it was. What's a quality that you feel like when you were best friends and falling in love with Carl, you felt like he had, and then in hindsight,

you look back, especially after analyzing things with the people you're closest to, and say he actually didn't have this quality that he had. Communication. I thought in the beginning, I was like, oh my God, he's communicating like, okay, babe, I'm going to this meeting, and then I have this call, and then I have a like, okay, babe, I'm going to this meeting, and then I have this call, and then I have a dinner or whatever,

and then I'll be home. And what are you doing? I want to see you. That's surface level communication, but deeper communication, the tough conversations, the adult conversations, the hard conversations I think he really struggles with. Especially I'm guessing if the light has shined on him, so to speak.

Well, if the topic is him and his spending or his career, his goals, his focus. Well, I think for somebody who has low self-esteem I think for somebody who, you know, has low self-esteem and then you are bringing up normal conversations that a partnership requires, they don't take that too easily. Yeah, I would imagine. If Carl were here, if we were talking with Carl and we were to say, you know... So I need another... We might need another shot. Yeah.

But if... What do you think Carl would say if we were to ask him, you know, why wasn't this relationship enough for you? I think Carl thinks that everything is just like butterflies and rainbows and, you know, puppies. I don't think he fully understands that like, relationship, there's a reason why everybody in the world says relationships take work, marriage takes work.

He would maybe say that he didn't wanna go to, he didn't wanna go to couples therapy for the rest of his life, but half the reason we were in couples therapy was because of him. Does he plan on working out the rest of his life? Like in a gym? What do you mean? Well, I mean, people talk about like, yeah, I mean, we, Nellie and I treat couples therapy is like something we do to maintain our relationship.

Right. To stay in shape emotionally. Right. Well, especially by the way, before you get married to FYI, like so many of my friends, especially before they're getting married, are in couples therapy. Yeah, and so like I don't know if Nell and I are gonna like do it for the rest of our lives, but like we plan on taking our care of ourselves,

I mean, for the foreseeable future. And I equate going to the gym. Well, especially when you work together, you live together. And working out is just as important as like our mental health, our relationship. And so I don't see therapy as some sort of burden, just like I don't see, you know,

there's some days I don't wanna work out, for sure. But to suggest that I don't wanna work out for the rest of my life, you know, I think that's what- Well, I think couples therapy is especially important for those who struggle with communicating with their partner without the help of a third party or you know somebody to to guide them and I

think the struggle came because it you know it almost seemed like any conversation that I would try to have like It was hard without the therapist being like, okay, now this is what Lindsey's saying. I don't know what he would say, honestly. I can't speak for the guy. That is a hard brain to unravel. Not too long ago, I had a conversation with a friend and got out of a relationship. I was surprised to hear that they were broken up with and they were sad about it. I wasn't the biggest fan of their partner.

And so afterwards I kind of said to them, like do you see it now at least? To which they replied, yes. You know, they kind of, after taking a step back if the relationship ended, as sad as they were, they were glad that maybe they weren't in that relationship any longer. Now that your heart is full two months later,

like where are you in the grieving process? Are you thankful you're no longer with Carl? Or is it still sad? I mean, shit, you were supposed to get married this month. That must obviously be difficult. But do you see it now, so to speak, in terms of whether you should be with Carl? or are you still having a hard time with that? No, I'm not having a hard time with that.

I definitely see it. I think, you know, God or the universe, whatever you believe in, had a bigger plan for me and I see that plan. After everything happened, you know, it took two weeks of full-blown like feeling all of the emotions, three weeks feeling all the emotions, slowly getting better but still like having breakdowns and it really was this moment of like, wow, like this was gonna be a long, rough road for me ahead. Especially if I'm the one driving all the tough conversations, managing everything,

driving the ship in all the directions, trying to really push on the adult future planning. And that sucks. I need help. I need a partner. I want an equal. And the fact that I wasn't getting that became very evident. And that's what I want.

And so, yeah, I'm in a really good place right now. I think grieving, you know, going through those motions of grief and pain and heartbreak is a very different experience for everybody and everyone has a different timeline that they are on with it. I think I've been through some pretty gnarly breakups in my life, some of which I've been on camera.

And this one was the most heartbreaking breakup of my entire life. Sorry you had to go through that. That's okay. But I realized that the way it went down That amount of betrayal for me was so strong trust and loyalty are my absolute number ones and if you betray my trust in such a way that

Carl dead I equate that to him basically cheating on me. So it made it easier for me to move through those emotions of grief and pain and heartbreak and put one foot in front of the other and slowly but surely say, you know what, I know how I treat people. I know that I love with my full heart. I know how big my heart is. I know what I treat people. I know that I love with my full heart. I know how big my heart is. I know what I am capable of.

And I want that in return. And once you start realizing again what your worth is, it makes it easier. And the trust part, just to like reiterate with the audience, it was kind of everything leading up to the breakup where he clearly wasn't open with you and transparent with you.

Is it more everything about leading up to the breakup or how much of that betrayal of trust has to do with him going to production, obviously, and set up the whole breakup scene? Is it that? It's more that. It's that. It's more that. It's that. Okay. A lot of it was how could somebody

who I trust more than anyone on this earth betray me in such a way that doesn't even feel like he loves me. Like you don't do that to somebody you love. You don't do that to somebody you respect. And you don't do that to your best friend of eight years, your partner and your fiance. You don't go to production and tell them what you're thinking

and then set up the cameras and do it in such a humiliating way. So publicly humiliating. And then think I'm ever gonna trust you ever again. Well it was interesting in the last reunion, the topic of you letting Amanda know on camera about Kyle's infidelity. And then you guys kinda all hashed that out and then you and Carl were like, yeah, our bad.

We shouldn't have done that that way. Was it even more surprising to you then, that even, like? You kinda like a mini- So that happened, that conversation with Kyle, and you know, about his infidelity season, I think that was like season three. That was like, we're in, during normal filming months. Like I didn't go pick the cameras back up

and then go to your house and have this conversation when you think you're wrapped for the season. No, I know, but I'm saying even then, it's even then. But I'm also, I'm not your partner. But I'm saying you guys even made the point where you and Carl acknowledged, hey, we shouldn't have done that type of thing. Like I'm agreeing with partner. But I'm saying you guys even made the point where you and Carl acknowledged, hey, we shouldn't have done that type of thing. I'm agreeing with you in the sense that, but why didn't Carl even register?

He apologized for something like this. This is 10 times worse, and it didn't even register with him. Yeah, Nick, that's the problem, the things that are not registering. Can you walk us through that day? I know, obviously, he canceled the couple's therapy. And then did he just be like, hey, meet in the living room. Productions coming over.

Got a surprise. Yeah. Okay. So let me back up a second. We wrapped filming that Sunday at the house and he was kind of coming at me in a way that felt really icky and gross. And like, season's done. And then we wrapped and we were done.

We then went to Surf Lodge with all of our cast and had a great time and I was like still like feeling really icky about the things that Carl had said to me earlier in the day. And we, so whatever, let's go to surf lodge. Let's just like put a buffer like that way. I'm not driving home with him and like, you know, getting into some sort of fight on the way home,

just the two of us, based off of what he had said earlier that day. And so we go to serve lives, we're on our way home, and I'm like talking about next weekend's Labor Day, like, I don't really want to go to Montauk. I think it's good for us to like reconnect and go somewhere just the two of us. We haven't been on a date this summer, da da da. And we have a whole conversation, which, you know, starts escalating weirdly because he's starting to throw out like all of these, like insults at me. And I'm just like, what is happening right now? And he's just saying some mean shit that I'm not going to get into. So we get into an argument in the car and I just stayed silent until we got home and whatever.

And so by Monday, he's golfing all day, not home. And by the time he gets home, I'm at dinner with a girlfriend. I get home, he's sleeping already on the couch. I was like, okay. By Tuesday, we're in and out of the apartment, you know, on different schedules. I then went to go get a manicure,

which I get every two weeks. And they take like two hours. And then I decided to go to Barbie with Gabby because we hadn't seen it all summer. We had no time all summer to go see Barbie, and now we're gonna go see Barbie. And I come out of the movies and I get this text on Tuesday night saying that we're gonna go see Barbie. And I come out of the movies and I get this text

on Tuesday night saying that they're gonna film tomorrow. And I'm just like, my radars are going off, my red flags are waving. Who's the text from, Carl or production? Production. And he's on it though. He's on the, it's a group text. And it is like, hey, we're filming tomorrow.

Like we, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I'm just like, something's up. This is not right. And then he's responding immediately. He's moving couples therapy. He's clearing the schedule. He's like, oh, no problem. He is like, you know, absolutely.

And I am just like, this is weird. Wait, wait, so he made it seem like like so he gets the group text from production. Yeah. And he's like, oh, let me see if I can move couples therapy, knowing for all hand that he knew he had to move couples therapy. And I had not even spoken to him since we got home on Sunday. And now it's on Tuesday. Like, why would you agree to even film with your fiance that you haven't even spoken to in the last two days?

Like that to me is like, this is weird. That's hardcore. So I come home and he is in our guest bedroom, lights off, door shut and hiding already. Cause he knows if he sees me, I'm gonna start asking a lot of questions. Cause you know, I asked too many questions. And so I wake up and I'm just like, I set my alarm early. I wake up early and I go into his room at 8 a.m.

and I'm like, do you know what they wanna film with us about today? And he pops off on me. Pops off. And it is just like the things he was saying were just, I don't even, this is part of like what I think about in my mind. It was just crazy shit.

What was it? Just like a one sound bite. I mean, just like, if you don't change, I'm this close to calling off the wedding. if you don't change, I'm this close to calling off the wedding. If you don't change, I am this close to calling off the wedding. And I'm like, I just woke up, rolled out of bed, opened my eyes, didn't even have my coffee,

and I love coffee. And I'm trying to figure out why we're filming today, because this is not making sense. We wrapped on Sunday, It's now Wednesday morning. I got a text on a group with them. He's eager to change the sketch, you know, our personal, you know, couples therapy around so that they could make room for filming us change couples. There are people wants you to change.

I'm like, what is happening? Or else. And yeah, but I have to change your outs and it just. That's part of the ick factor that I was feeling that morning. So he left the apartment and I called my dad. I was like, something's up. I called Gabby, I called my best friend Yvonne,

and I just was like, I don't understand what's going on. Like we're having these conflicts in our communication surrounding his career, but why are we filming? Like, this is weird. And then next thing you know, they showed up that afternoon and I sat on the couch and... When did you know? I mean, when it, when it happened.

When the words came out. When the words came out. And when the words came out, I don't think I reacted the way he wanted me to react. And so as soon as he said, you don't take me seriously, and by the way, I'm saying that calmly. He was not as calm when he said that. I looked at him and I realized, oh, he wants me to beg and plead and say, no, no, no, please don't do this. I'll change. I'll change. I'll do whatever you need.

Don't call off the wedding. Don't do this. That's what he wanted from me. But that is not me. and that will never be me. And as soon as he said in that moment, you don't even take me seriously, I knew that this was this weird, like, fucked up situation that felt like he was using the cameras to threaten me. Do you? It almost sounds like he had this pent up kind of, you know, I don't know,

insecurity or, you know, feeling about himself, inadequacy, whatever you want to call it. It's almost like he brought And I brought that up. Yeah, and it's almost as if he thought that you didn't think he was capable of setting up this breakup. It's almost like you were there. Yeah. And-

Oh, set up the breakup? This whole, like- I wasn't going to. No, no, him. I would never. No, him setting up the breakup. You know, just going to production, doing this whole thing.

Like I didn't think he had a denim sort of feel? Like almost as if you didn't think I was. Why would I think anyone would ever do that? I don't know. Two weeks beforehand, we're at my bridal shower, you're doding all over Instagram. Why would I think two weeks later, you're wanting to break up with me and call off a wedding?

Like that would never cross any woman's mind that that's what's happening. Exactly. Especially if like, nothing really happened. Like I didn't do anything. It seems like he- It's not like I cheated on him. I'm not like, you know, doing anything crazy.

I'm just like trying to ask questions about your career. Yeah. Because the way you're describing it, it's like you don't take me seriously. It was almost like C, I don't know, I wasn't there, but yeah, it's kind of crazy that he did all, because like the whole setup seems apostrous. Yeah.

To like, to know you're gonna call off a wedding and to hide yourself in a room and call other people and then almost kind of breadcrumb you. It's like he was doing pickups about your breakup before the breakup happened in a way. I think he was hyping himself up that morning, which is why he popped off on me. I think he was, he put a narrative in his mind

that he needed to call this wedding off and he was not gonna let me make any sense in a conversation with him. So in order to like shut me up, he had to just pop off on me. So he breaks up with you, he ends the engagement, and then production packs up? No, I talked to my dad for 30 minutes in my room.

I was like, well, he did it. Because like I said, my red flags and radars were going off. Like I just, a woman's intuition is unlike no other. And you know, our gut and synced is usually pretty spot on. So that's why we should always follow our gut. But yeah, I talked to my dad in my room, like on the bed, and my dad was like, do you want me to call him? And I was like, yeah, yes, call him.

Maybe you can understand what just happened. My dad called him immediately, like immediately, you know, because that's what a dad does. That's what a parent does or should do. And I then after my conversation with my dad, I left and I texted my girlfriend who lives like a few blocks down from me and I was like, are you home?

Like I need to get inside. I need to be inside. Like, and I'm like, I have my girlfriends texting me about the bachelorette party that were going on in three weeks. And I'm like, I can't talk right now. Like this just happened. And they're like, what? I have like, I can't talk right now. Like this just happened. And they're like, what?

I have like all my girlfriends just started meeting me at my friend's house because it was just like, what just happened? Yeah, it was. What did Carl say to your dad? I think it was mostly my dad trying to tell Carl that everything in life requires communication and planning. And this is what adults do.

And, you know, like, I don't know what happened, but it seems like you're adverse to communication around, like, adult hard topics that need to be had. And just so you know, like, everyone in life has to have those conversations, and this is just the beginning. Like, we're not even married, we don't have kids. So did y'all have a conversation after, were y'all ever in this house again

where you were like, what the fuck was that? Yeah, was there any off-camera breakup time? No. I did not respond to any of his texts for the first two weeks. I just was like disgusted and appalled. And I just anything he was texting was simply to try to clear his public image. And it was less about like, are you okay? Are you eating? Like I didn't eat for a month, like at all. I couldn't keep anything in my body.

I was crying in ways that I didn't know I had in me because I don't typically cry. I was throwing up and whatever, you get the rest. And like, I just I was sad, I was angry. I just was going through all of these emotions that in any other breakup, I'm like, whatever, fuck that guy. He's a loser. You know, and I just it was rough so I wouldn't answer him because you're not even like concerned with the well-being of me as a person with my heart that you just broke with the fact that you blew up my entire life and future burned my fucking house down and You don't even care to ask if I'm okay. He never called.

He never tried to get in front of me. I mean, he would have had like a window. There would have been like probably a two day window that he could have gotten in front of me and said, I am so sorry. Like I really handled all of this so wrong. And I realized that I humiliated you, but no. I finally sat down with him right before I went to the Bahamas with my girlfriends on my Bachelorette trip.

And he just was not capable of taking accountability. He was still trying to convince me that he didn't set the whole thing up. And I'm like, I can't sit here for this. You're wasting my time at this point. That was a conversation, him trying to convince you? Yeah. How would it have, what was the alternative plan?

Like, what was the alternative? Like, how else could it have been? It seems like from some kind of quote within, like Kyle or him was sort of implying that he knew it might be a difficult conversation, but wasn't going to all the way follow through with calling off the wedding. I'm sorry, you don't call up production and say,

I'm thinking about possibly breaking up with my fiance and calling off my wedding, but just in case that I do, can you drop everything, you know, they're making a TV show. These people are, you know, there's certain rules and hours that, it's a big fucking heavy lifting. Well also, I'm sorry, but if you don't mean to call off a wedding, you don't fucking call off the wedding. If you meant to postpone the wedding, you postpone it.

But you don't call it off. There's a big difference between postponing and calling off. There's also a big difference between, hey, I'm feeling like maybe I have cold feet or having second thoughts or I'm not ready versus calling off, there's also a big difference between, hey, I'm feeling like maybe I have cold feet or having second thoughts or I'm not ready versus calling off the wedding. If you don't mean to call off a wedding,

you don't fucking do it. You speak very clearly, articulately, slowly, and you make sure there is no room for misinterpretation, misunderstanding, or speculation. If you're making the biggest decision of your entire life, not only does it affect me and you, but it affects our entire family, our friends, everyone who's already booked for our wedding. It affects our rent and our apartment situation.

It affects who knows what's happening with the jobs on Summerhouse, but it affects so many people. And when you're making the biggest decision of your entire life that affects that many people, I'm sorry, but you think that through and you speak clearly and slowly and deliberately so that there is no room for misunderstanding. That's how that works.

Period. Period. Period. Period. Just got hot in here. Yeah, no. I mean, it is wild that he tried to sell you on the idea that he was going to think about it or...

Well, it's wild that like he didn't understand that calling off a wedding meant breaking up like he thought he thought Do you think he was trying to still to stay together? I think he I think he yeah, I think he was still He wanted to still date you but he just was like I don't want to marry you. What are you? What okay, you know, even if that was his plan because I guess people have done I mean, I'm spilling water now. You don't do that by doing what he did on the show. If Nick were to come to you and be like, hey, I wanna call off the wedding, but I wanna stay together.

No, we're done. Yeah, sorry, no. Sorry, if you don't wanna marry me, what are we doing? We're just wasting our time. Yeah, and guess what? At this point, you've already wasted two critical years of my life that I'm not about to waste anymore. But even if there were a chance,

him doing it the way he did. No, there's no chance. It's like, I want to call off our wedding on TV, embarrass you, but we can still stay together. No, that's insane. Did he move out of the apartment too, or was that something, is that something he wanted, is that something you told him to do?

Um, I didn't you told him to do? I didn't really tell him to do anything. It was mostly like the first couple of weeks, I had certain people as go-betweens trying to understand. Well, first of all, he ran away immediately. I don't know where he went. I don't know what he did, but he left New York pretty much the next day after that happened. I had to go film a scene with the girls,

but he refused to film anything else after that. Which. Was the scene. Yeah. Because that's cool. Yeah, and then. What am I missing, what? It's just ridiculous.

After the breakup, like conversation on camera, I still had to go film another, yeah with the girls. And he was like, I'm done. And he just refused to film anything else after that and like ran away and left town. Like completely just disappeared. He exiled himself. So if he needed to come to the apartment,

like I was like, I'm not answering him. Gabby, you answer him. And so Gabby was answering him on my behalf. And then I finally sat down with him that third week before I went to the Bahamas. And I could not handle that conversation because it was just another waste of my time. And now we're, I don't know where he's at.

I don't know where he stays. I, we're at a point now where he'll just text me if he needs to come to the apartment and get stuff and, you know, ask me when he needs to come to the apartment and get stuff and, you know, ask me when I will be gone from the apartment so we don't see each other and I just answer very, like, just... Wednesday.

Matter of fact. Yeah, matter of fact. Like, I'm gone today, all day, I'll be home later tonight. End of story. I never tell him where I'm at or what time's really like, I just... I don't know. I mean, I think, yeah, I saw what Kyle said in the press, like, poor guys, basically homeless.

But here's the thing. If you want a home, don't burn your fucking house down. Like, but you burned your house down, and I was not at a point in time, like, the first month, a home, don't burn your fucking house down. But you burned your house down, and I was not at a point in time, the first month, I'm sorting through all my emotions, I'm trying to understand everything, where my head's at.

Put one foot in front of the other, start learning and refocusing my energies on just bringing myself joy and happiness. Why do I need to now add to the priority list of, well, where am I going to live? This is my home. This is the one home that I have that I spent a lot of time, money and effort to nurture and cultivate and make comfortable for us. And then you went and burned it down and you expect me to now go figure out where

I'm going to live. Like, that's not really fair. I'll let you know when I'm at that point. But by the way, our lease is up in June, and I'm probably not going to be at that point until June because I love my apartment. And like, what did he expect to be roommates? Like, he didn't. Again, didn't register, didn't think about it. Were there conversations about how rent would be paid?

He pays rent. As he should. He's on the contract. As he should. Oh, I don't know. I don't know what his plan is. I don't really care. Kyle alluded to the fact that

when we get to watch season eight back, the breakup will make more sense to us, but you clearly had filmed all of season eight and it sounds like it didn will make more sense to us. But you clearly had filmed all of season eight and it sounds like it didn't make much sense to you. Do you have any idea what Kyle might be referring to or do you think Kyle's just team Carl at this point? I mean, Kyle's always team Carl. I think it was Craig.

Craig. Craig definitely, yeah. Craig said that? Okay. Well, Craig was there for two days. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I would imagine that they're gonna put the season together to make it make sense Well, I don't know have you had conversations production about that because you know, we all know the show is edited They can take things a certain way

They can show you getting as blindsided as you felt or they can make it seem like it is Every fight you guys ever had and then do pickups with Carl and Nick gets. It really wasn't like this crazy amount of fighting. Like you would think that like we fought all summer, we did it. It was really like a couple of things in the beginning, which we got through pretty quickly. And then the last two weeks,

but the whole like middle portion, we were great. So this whole idea, the narrative that people try to paint, like they were fighting all summer, no we were not. Not at all, not in the least bit. It's normal couple arguments, relationship, disagreements that are not like this crazy, like elevated fights of, I don't even get activated anymore Which is sad. There's not a single Lindsay activation on the new season

I think my activation just looks a little different Whereas like I'm not like blackout and yelling at you off a fireball. I'm more just like more just like, you know giving you you this like, I'll fuck you up face and speaking more articulately. What did this breakup teach you about yourself? That I'm stronger than I think. I mean, I've always known I'm a pretty strong girl, but I'm also very, very human. And you know, I think with every breakup that's as serious as something like this,

you start to question a lot of things about yourself. And once I quickly eliminated that from, you know, any routine that I was going to start, you know, in my grieving process, I was like, okay, I got this. I went on the trip with my girls and those girls, I've never seen friendship like this in my entire life. The way that they rallied around me, the way that they flew into New York, they were tag teaming each other,

making sure I was never alone. I never felt alone. Any emotions that I was feeling, they were feeling with me. Who stepped up the most? You know, I think about, I had a wedding in Portugal a week after the breakup, and it was for one of my best friends. And I didn't want to miss it at all, because she was actually on season one,

her name was Jaclyn And, you know, we've been through a lot together. And I didn't want to miss her wedding. I wanted to be there and celebrate her love with her fiance, now husband. And I had one girlfriend using her points to book another best friend to go to Portugal with me so I didn't have to go alone. And I cried and cried and cried about it because I just thought it was the most beautiful thing that friends could do. It's like an army and I would not wanna fuck with these girls, they're the strongest girls I know.

So I really just regained my strength from them. And after I did that, I really just regained my strength from them. And after I did that, I got this confidence of like, okay, I can do this. I can start moving forward. I'm ready to move forward. I'm not going to dedicate any more time on just thinking about this absolute disaster of a breakup. And just started putting one foot in front of the other and kept the momentum. And then I started traveling and I was like, all right, I booked myself. Like it started with the Bahamas and then it was, you know, I went to Denver with a girlfriend and and we had like a really fun weekend.

And then I came back and I went to DC and then I went to Nashville. And then I finally was in New York for like the last two weeks, you know, just sitting still and went to dinner with all the summer house girls. And that was fun. And, you know, just been putting myself out there more in New York now. Yeah. I was, you know, seeing you with all of the girls. It looked like such a nice moment.

Can you talk about how, at times, during definitely season seven and maybe season eight, there seemed to be some tension. Can you talk about how your relationships with all the girls in the house are now? Yeah, I had a really great summer with the girls. We really got along. I think there was a, I think after, after season seven and after that

reunion, there was like, it was a complete almost like, tear down and rebuild with some, some of them. And, you know, with Danielle specifically, I think that we had been rebuilding all summer. And by the end of the summer, this, this year the summer this year, we were in a really, really good place. And she has been so incredible throughout this entire breakup. And she's really been there for me and super supportive. Gabby came over every single day, you know, that first week until I wound up in Portugal and she's been incredible. And then the other girls, you know, they've sent me texts and, you know, checking in on me every now and then.

And you know, even over summer, like, you know, those last two weeks if something happened with Carl, like they were right there to validate me and help me understand different perspectives and give advice and listen. So yeah, I feel like I'm in a really great place with the girls and it's nice. And as the story goes, as one thing, how does it go? It closes the door, opens a window.

How was, like was Danielle just as shocked or what was her read on the situation? She, I know you guys had a bit of a falling out, but the three of you were very close. She had a front row seat to much of the relationship. Was she as blown away by Carl's actions as you were? Yeah, I think everyone quite frankly was. I think everyone was very blown away.

Like no, like literally no one expected it to happen the way it did. And I think people might have had hesitations. Danielle definitely had hesitations, but I still think that she was shocked by the whole thing. Yeah. On the topic of Danielle's hesitations, looking back to kind of the way the engagement went down, with this hindsight of the breakup, has that changed the way you view her actions at all? Listen, I think an engagement is like one of the biggest

moments in someone's lives. And that's one of those things that you just don't touch with any negativity at all whatsoever, so. That whole conversation blew my mind. No, I'm not, you know, I'm not gonna say like. It is what it is. Yeah, I don't think that her actions last year were like necessarily justified,

but you know, I do think she does have good intentions and she does have a good heart. I think her delivery is just often. Do you think she sees that now? Yes, she does. I didn't really understand. She was like, I'm not trying to make this about me, but. Montage of her talking to everyone.

There's no but after I don't wanna make this about me. It's their engagement. I get you're close, but like. Yeah, she's been incredible though in this whole process and she's very clear. She made it a point like going in, I think, to this summer or like going into the idea of something happens, like I'm gonna have to take someone's side here

and she obviously chose my side. So it's been nice having her as that lockstep friend again. I really like someone who can take a side. There's a lot of people don't. Some friends like to be Switzerland. Does it feel like anyone in the cast has taken his side? You who must not be named? I mean, obviously Kyle.

Where is Amanda, do you think? I don't know. I mean, I think she's more of like the... In the history of Amanda,'s more of like the, in the history of Amanda, she kind of like is more Switzerland and doesn't necessarily take sides. It's hard to tell. I mean, I think we're all pretty much in agreeance

that the way it went down was pretty messed up. Has how Carl handled this, and I understand your situation was unique because you were engaged, but will it adjust how you maybe handle more sensitive issues on the show in the future just because of how impactful this was to you? Will you be a little bit more careful about blindsigning someone with information or how

do you see that going forward? How has this breakup adjusted how you're going forward? Like how how has this breakup? adjusted how You're gonna approach filming summer house in the future I Think in regards to my next Relationship, I'm going to be a little bit more protective over how much I share just because um You know Every relationship that I've been on on camera has blown up.

So I think I'm going to be definitely aware of that in my future. Would you be open to like having a personal boundary around maybe not involving your relationship on a show? To be honest, I think I'm owed a personal boundary after all of this. I mean, I've given this show every single thing that has ever happened to me with open arms, and I can't say that for everybody. So, you know, I think at this point, if I wanna keep, you know, some elements

of a personal relationship to myself, that I should be allowed to a certain extent. Obviously, like I said, I'm an open book, always have been, but if it's a significant relationship that I wanna protect, I think I'm owed a little bit of leeway with the personal details of a relationship. Well, we have a bunch more questions for Lindsay, especially like what's next for her on the mend.

The future is bright for her, but maybe let's take the spotlight off of Lindsay for a second and give someone else some relationship advice. It's time for texting office hours. What happens when 20 extremely athletic Canadians who thrive on competition and won't settle for less than number one, find themselves on a team? Taking on jaw dropping obstacles all across Canada is one thing.

Working together on a team with some pretty big personalities is another. It's a new season of Canada's Ultimate Challenge and sparks are gonna fly. New episode Sundays watch free on CBC gem. To new beginnings. To new beginnings. Oh. Okay. I took the whole egg. Come on. Let's eat. So what happens when it's not cold? Oh my God. Want some coffee to chase it? No. It's not bad. And it's like lukewarm coffee.

Cowl. All right. How's it going? Hi, I'm I am 26. I recently hooked up with my friend's brother at her wedding and want to shoot my shot now. Okay. Oh, does your friend know about this hookup? I think so.

So I thought that I played it cool at the wedding. And then I recently found out that I did not play it cool and that we were talking like all night. And she had mentioned to some of our friends being like oh like is what I see going on there going on there and they're like I think so too little bit sure oh okay wait let's back up let's back up about it since yeah so fine hookup so does this mean kissing a little sex but we everything but same bed, naked together. Yes. Oral? No.

Did you get a little hand? Yeah, just made out. Just like heavy petting. And stuff, and yes. Heavy petting. A couple of tuggies. Yes. And OTPHJ.

Yes. Tuggies, hate that one. And under the pants, H.J. Yeah, UTPHJ. How did we leave it? Was there a finger bang involved? It's a callback bang involved? No. So this is like kissing and heavy petting.

Yeah, yeah. So you rounded first. Was he double clicking the mouse? But they were both naked. Well, we almost had sex and then we were both too drunk. And so then it just didn't work out. And the next morning I was like, this is not a good idea. So we're not gonna have sex.

Oh, did you, would you say you made it awkward in the morning? I think, well, so we had a brunch the next morning. Oh, so this is the night of the wedding. The whole family's there, yes, the wedding night. Okay. And then, so the whole family is there, all our friends are there the next morning.

And I was brutally hungover and I probably made it weird and that I definitely was just like, ah, well I'm gonna go now. And he's like, is that it? And I was like, yeah, I gotta go, bye. The friend knows, but you haven't really talked to her about it. Yes, so like the friend doesn't know exactly what happened.

It sounds like she's like into it. The friend knows and she's. She's not offended. No, I don't think the friend doesn't know exactly what happened. It sounds like she's like into it. And she's- She's not offended. No, I don't think that she's offended. And like, they're not like super close. Like she's, he's three years younger than her. She's two years older than me. We met in college, I've been friends since,

but we're not like best friends. We just kind of run in the same crowd. And her and her brother, like, it's not like they talk all the time. And she's made comments before being like, you should date my brother. And at the time, so. So the big question is, is do you.

You wanna shoot your shot. Yeah, she wants to shoot her shot. But the question is how, and you were there, we weren't there. Do you think you can just pretend the awkwardness really didn't happen and then come up with like, hit them with a like, a hey, how you doing doing or we can come up with some joke or whatever or do you feel like you need to acknowledge how you like dined and dashed so to speak

and like make a make a joke or something you know like hey sorry about that the issue yeah i think the issue is that I tried to make a, hey, if you ever want to come to Philly and hang out, because that's where I live, let me know. And because I had gone and got drinks with his younger sister the next night, because we had all made plans to watch a game together. He bailed.

I felt like I couldn't bail just because he was bailing. And so then I went anyways, and I had asked his sister for his number. And did she give it to you? She gave it. So I texted him and I said, hey, if you ever wanna come to Philly and hang out, let me know. I hope you're feeling better, blah, blah, blah.

And his response was like, yeah, I'm feeling a lot better. Thank you for the invite. That's it? Yeah. Oh. Hate that. That's it. Yeah Yeah, yeah, thanks for the invite So many things that I did not want to go to That's what what else would he have said like thanks to the like yeah sure this weekend like

You know what he could have said that like, thanks to the like, yeah, sure. This weekend. Like. You know, what he could have said that I would love to do better. I was good for you. I don't know. He could have just kept the conversation conversation. Is he far away from Philly? Does it require like a plane or a car? It's like 20 minutes. Oh, oh. He still lives in the hometown. He's 20 minutes away. Yeah. Oh, so like over the hill. If you're in L.A., that's just like a.

Well, maybe he was busy at the time that you sent that text. You know, I don't know. I. What are your intentions? Do you just want to like hook up or do you want to see where this could go? I think I enjoyed spending time with him. I think the only red flag to me is that like if I go for it and it doesn't work out, then it could be awkward with my friends. Only if you make it awkward.

Okay, so like that's about it. Yeah, that is true. I think in regards to your friend, so I dated one of my best friends' brothers and I, the whole way through, and it was super casual, like this was like a guy that I was like in between all my other bigger relationships,

I would always just like see if it worked and like see if we could make it work. And really it was like just so I could be my best friend's sister or sister-in-law. But I was very open and honest with her the entire time. Like anytime I was like talking to him, with him, whatever, I was just always very communicative with my best friend because she's the priority.

But I think with the guy, I'm always an advocate of shoot your shot. Like we live in a female world right now and you know, you don't have to wait for men. We know it takes them a lot longer to process their no offense, Nick, but like, you know, like get things going then, then females, you know, like I, I, I'm a shoot your shot kind of girl. And if you don't put it out there, like they don't necessarily know.

So my personal advice, and maybe you'll disagree, So my personal advice and maybe you'll disagree, but my personal advice is just like, hey, like, you know, what are you doing in the next? What's your schedule in the next couple of weeks? You know, do you want to come to Philly one night? Like you have to be very direct with men. They don't pick up as easily as women do. Again, sorry, Nick.

No, none taken. I mean, I agree with Lindsay. I would just even be more direct. I wouldn't ask a question. I would just. Well, that's what, that was my thought was that I kind of like was there. I feel like I was too nonchalant.

And that like, if you ever wanna come sometime. And he could have been busy that night. Like he could have been like cool things and like was like off to an event. I mean, I want to see you again. Oh, oh. Oh yeah. Okay.

It's about as direct as you can get. Then that is true. I also don't, listen. That would be very direct. I also wouldn't be scared of rejection. I know the main reason that people don't shoot their shot is that they're scared of rejection, but for every one rejection, there's a million yeses.

So I just don't be scared of rejection ever. And let me know if you guys disagree, but I don't think you have much to worry about in the friends department of it being weird. I truly think that he will probably, more than anything, like it's, I don't wanna say you're closer with the girl, his sisters than you are, but I feel like if you shoot your shot hard,

if you text him, I want to see you again, and he doesn't, he's not feeling it and rejects you. He'll just avoid you for a while. And I just think you don't, I don't think you have to- I saw him once in college, my freshman year. You have nothing to worry about. And I didn't see him again until the wedding. So as long as-

I didn't see him for six years, I probably will never see him ever again until they get pregnant. That's the baby shower. That'll be about it. He's not gonna call up his sisters and be like, guess who texts me who I turned down. Almost certainly that's not gonna happen.

So unless you bring it up, your biggest concern really isn't that much of a concern. And it sounds like both sisters are like fine with it if he wants to. Maybe we should just text him right now. Oh, text him now. What are you going to say? Let's. Okay. What did we decide? I want to see. I want to see you again. I want to see you again. I want to see you again. Do we do we ask the question? What's your schedule next weekend or next week or this? I think we just say a couple of weeks?

I would just say. See what she says after I wanna see you again. Yeah, cause I feel like it's so like punchy, but it's still like not too high key. Like it's just a very effective text solo and then we can get into scheduling from there kind of thing. So she say like, hi, hey.

Now back to, you didn't really answer this question. Are you looking to hook up with them or are you like maybe this guy I could date, or are you just not sure yet, somewhere in between? I'm not sure yet. I feel like we talked for like hours at the wedding, but again, like that's like talking to someone at the wedding, which I feel like is heightened emotions

because you're all at a wedding. And you're drunk. And we're very drunk. So it's like, I don't know if I will enjoy his company sober. OK. Yeah. Do you like that? That's like I'm great for hard to paint. I want to see you again is about as direct as you can get. I mean, you could if you wanted to soften a little bit, like we should hang out again.

Yeah. Soften that. Like I want to see you again as a little like that's like I've been thinking about. That's kind of like I can't wait to flirt with you. Yeah. Like that. That's like I've been thinking about you. That's kinda like, I can't wait to flirt with you. Yeah, like that's like you've hung out maybe a couple of times and you've been texting a bunch in between. We should definitely hang out again. There you go.

Okay. How about you send that? Yeah, soften that. Did you already send the first one? No. Oh my God. Edit, edit. Edit, edit.

Edit, edit. I wanna see you again. Scratch that, we should definitely hang out. We should definitely hang out. We should definitely hang out again. Okay. Done. Did you put an exclamation or a period or no?

No punctuation. No punctuation. No punctuation. I don't know the whole answer right now, but we'll see. Doesn't matter. Punctuation. No punctuation. I don't know the answer right now, but we'll see. Doesn't matter. That's OK. So it matters, but like it doesn't really matter. He'll answer in three hours when he gets off work.

Circle back with us and give us an answer. And if he doesn't, then that is an answer as well. There you go. We love that. Well, if he doesn't, then go on dates with 15 other people. Yeah. I do do you follow. Do you follow each other on social? No, he doesn't have social media. Oh, I like that. Hot.

That's cool. Nothing. Yeah, no Instagram, nothing we love, which I feel like is harder in the sense of like, I really have to shoot my shot then. Have you Googled him? Um, no, no? Um, no. You always got to do. I was like that, too.

Well, I do have that. I do. I do know his sister, so I feel like that was a Google. And it's. Yeah, I guess. Yeah. All right. Well, let us know. Yeah. Keeva's post said send us some DMs and let us know. Oh, can't wait to find out. All right. Good luck. I want to wait a few seconds, but we gotta go.

There's no way he's writing back right now. Like, okay, win. He does work. What if he just answers, how about tonight? Amazing. That'd be something. That would be something. All right, keep us posted.

I will, thank you. All right, take care. Bye. All right, Lindsay, I know we have to wrap up, but I think. We're already there? Well, you gotta get back on a plane. We gotta go see our baby. Okay.

I understand, responsibilities, adulthood. The only really big question I had left to ask is like, how the fuck do you film another season of Summer House? Because it's not like Vanderpump where you guys living are separate homes but you're still in kind of the same group, we kind of do your own thing. Summer House is you guys move into a fucking house for an extended period of time and have intimate discussions whether you like the people or not and that's what makes the show.

But like how do you plan on doing this? Also what else haven't we covered that you might want to cover? To answer what else haven't we covered that you might wanna cover? To answer your first question, I don't know because so many things could happen between now and then. I don't know where I'm gonna be at mentally there with him. Like by that time I could be in a state of like, I forgive this guy, I'll never forget,

I'll never trust him, he'll never be my best friend, whatever, we can film. I could also be in a, I will, I never want to see him again. I don't know. Like, so much could happen in this next nine, ten months until that filming period happens. I just don't know where I'm gonna be mentally. You know, when you have two original cast members that this happens to, it's a little bit sticky and tricky. But I, you know, every day for me gets a little better every week gets, you know, exponentially better. And like I said, like I, I'm living with like a very positive mentality

with like a full heart and looking towards my future. And I'm really, really excited for my next journey. Like I just spent the last two years like compromising and trying to be the best partner I could be to somebody who spent the last year planning a wedding and gearing up for a future that is not happening. So I'm really excited to just go out and be free and single and like explore my opportunities and where that takes me and just kind of see see where that goes.

Have you dabbled in dating at all? I've dabbled in flirting. Dabble and flirting, okay. Yeah, it turns out I'm really good at it. Okay, has that flirting elevated to any, you know, bass rounding or mild hookups or kisses or? Not yet, but I can't wait. Do you have your eye on anyone?

I don't have my eye on anyone. I'm not taking anything too seriously right now. Like I'm just like, I'm really focused on just finding joy and happiness and somebody who matches my energy. Like I have a lot of energy to give this world and I have a lot of driving ambition and excitement and all the things that Carl didn't think I had. I'm excited to dedicate that to somebody who's deserving of it and, you know,

receiving that back in a way that I also deserve. In your next relationship, how do you plan on kind of qualifying that? Like, how do you plan on making sure, because after talking to you, it sure sounds like as wonderful as you might have loved Carl then and in the relationship at the time but having taken a step back from this relationship you've realized that maybe you know I'll just say it maybe Carl didn't match your level so to speak right and maybe as a good heart and maybe he tries hard to do his best but you need someone who's maybe at a different level

with a certain level of ambition and has their shit together, which Carl's still on that path. How are you gonna make sure your next partner can bring that to the table without you having to find out years into the relationship? I think having some deep, tough conversations early on, I think it's, I think I can pick up pretty quickly.

Right now, like my main list is like drive and ambition. Hopefully you're successful already. already and also like emotional intelligence, I think, is big for me at this point in time and intimacy, sexual compatibility, chemistry, stuff like that. Performance. And so I'm just, shut the fuck up, Nick. This is the thought. So I'm excited,, I'm excited.

I don't know. I don't know how to find that out without scaring someone away. Right? Because like... But maybe scaring someone away isn't that bad of a thing. Right. I'm guessing you have not scared away a lot of the wrong people in the past. Yeah. Maybe I should try to scare more men away and if they don't go away, I'm like, okay. It's a weed out course.

But truly, wouldn't you say your person, whoever that person is, won't be intimidated by you, won't be scared away by direct conversations and honest communication upfront about topics that are necessary and needed to have a successful relationship? Yeah, that's... There's a lot to get out.

But you know what I'm saying? You know, like maybe. I also, like, that's also like what I'm looking for is really like, you know, someone who, yeah, I guess like can get deep with me, but also, yeah, not be intimidated by that. And I have a lot of confidence and I don't know where it comes from.

I think it comes from just like as a kid, I just always had to keep up with the boys and, you know, be better as a girl with, you know, playing with the boys. But yeah, someone who's not intimidated by my confidence and is not necessarily impressed by it, but, you know, is successful in their own right, that they're like, that's my girl. That's my fucking girl who's like crushing life

over there on reality TV and I'm crushing life over here and it's a completely different industry. Do you ever feel like Carl was ever proud of you? I do. But I also feel like he was intimidated by me as well. Like intimidated by maybe my, you know, my outspokenness and my popularity and everything that comes along with being on a TV show. But yeah, I do think that he was proud of me.

I really do. But I also think that, you know, over time, when someone is doing so much to succeed and excel, like that's weighing on somebody who, you know, is not like, is in a transitional moment. Let's talk about your future. Do you know anyone who is single, who is not on reality TV? I mean, that are worthy.

Have you guys had any guests on? Hmm. Well, do you like country singers? Country singers? Dustin Lynch, he's in the market. He says hi, by the way. Do you know? Oh.

Oh. Okay. Whoopsy. Oh. She's good at flirting, folks. So don't need us. Yeah, literally, we're fired. Anyone else? What are you looking for? What's your type?

Well, we've probably physically I have no type. If you like take a lineup, I have it's like tall, short, brunette, blonde, you know, you know. Literally everything, like I, my friends have made fun of me for 15 years. There is no type physically for me. It's more about mental capacity right now. If you were to wake up and it's June,

what would success mean to Lindsay? Like where would you wanna be? Like where are you in your life? What's your relationship status? How do you feel about Carl? Okay, you know, it's so interesting. I actually had this conversation over summer about my version of success

and I had this conversation with Carl. You know, my version of success and my mind has changed over the last, how long have I, you know, 10, 15, 20 years. So in my early 20s, it was like climb the ladder of PR and get to the top and like, you know, like really succeed at my job. And I did that.

Then in my early 30s, it was like own my own PR firm and make sure it's successful and keep it afloat and, you know, hustle around New York City, the hardest city to hustle around in the whole entire world. And I did that. And now, as of over summer, my version of success was like engagement, marriage, and starting a family. And to me, that I really find that to be a success. But I will say, since everything happened, I am reinvigorated, I am re-inspired.

I feel challenged again. I am focused on myself, whereas before I was so focused on not only myself, but somebody else, and pushing two people instead of one, and now that I'm so focused on not only myself, but somebody else, and pushing two people instead of one, and now that I'm pushing one, it's like, I wanna own real estate, I want to make as much money as humanly possible, I wanna write a book, which has been sort of

on the back burner for me for a couple of years now, and now more than ever, I'm like. Start journaling. It is time. Yeah. It's time. So I'm re-inspired in a creative way. I'm re-inspired in a financial way.

And I think the rest will fall into place. For all the ladies out there, or men, who maybe recently got out of tough breakup, especially in ended engagement, what advice would you have for them? God, great question. Advice, I think, you know, advice is easier to give than to take, right? But I think in my situation, it's like, you know, really think about what you want. Really think about who you are and know your worth and don't settle for less. You know, I think when you get out of like a tough breakup, you just pick yourself up.

Like I said, everyone handles grief and pain and heartbreak differently, but life goes on and just keep in mind that this is only temporary. Time helps and I'm very understanding that not everyone moves quite like I do. Mine was a little bit easier because there's no lingering feelings, but you just have to put one foot in front of the other

and keep it moving. All right, now you gotta go. We got a plane to catch, folks. Oh, wait, wait, wait. What did your couples therapist say after the breakup? I never went back. Oh, you never talked to them? No, he wanted me to.

And I was like, how did you cancel the couples therapist, do this on camera, and then beg me to go to couples therapy You canceled the couple's carl try to drag you back to yes Yeah, and then he had spent like the last two weeks of summer telling me a couple therapy wasn't working I'm like dude you just spent the last two weeks telling me this wasn't working Then you canceled it to do this on camera And now you're sitting here trying to get me back in a couples therapy. Like none of this makes sense, none of this. This is not making sense to me.

And I am absolutely not going to a couples therapist when there is no couples involved. Well, Lindsay, I can't thank you enough. You seem like you're in great spirits, truly. Thank you. In only two months. I mean, I think that's's not lost on me at least, someone who's, tough breakups can be tough.

Two months, you've crushed it. Yeah, I've been through a lot in life, right? So I think it gets easier, like once you really work through your emotions, which I, you can't like- It's like you know you're gonna survive this. Like you can't like numb your emotions. Like I chose not to numb them

and I chose to just like dive in to the deep end of emotions and like really feel the feels and then I was like, alright, that's it, moving on. And like I said, he made it easy for me to do that. Well we wish you absolutely nothing but the best. Thanks guys. We are super excited. Not only well, you answered all our questions, but obviously we'll watch season eight. But I'm more excited for season nine.

Yeah. Season nine. Season nine. Yeah. Single Lindsay. Single Lindsay is a different Lindsay. So another hot hub summer coming at you. Here we go. Thanks for listening, guys. We certainly enjoyed this episode with Lindsay. Hopefully you did too. Tell your friends, subscribe, all that fun stuff. Send in those questions at asknick at TheValFiles.com

for all things texting, office hours, mediation. Ask Nick, you know the drill. We'll see you back on Monday. Bye. you