The Viall Files - Traitors w/ Yam Yam and Sandra, Baldoni News, Grammy's, RHOP, RHOBH & Vacation Recap

Episode Date: February 3, 2026

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap!  We're back with another banger episode, as we welcome Traitors and Survivor legends Yam Yam and Sandra to the show to dive deep into the dramatic chaos that was the banquet, and more! Plus, we welcome Ex-Patriatch to get into recent Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively headlines. Meanwhile, we cover Karen Huger's interview with Andy on RHOP, RHOBH, the Grammy's, and more!  "I'd murder Dorinda!"  The Viall Files is going LIVE with the new cast of Temptation Island on May 6th! Tickets are on sale NOW! For more information, please visit netflixisajokefest.com.  Want ad free episodes and incredible bonus content?  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  HEY! YOU! DO YOU NEED DATING AND RELATIONSHIP ADVICE?  Email [e-mail] and be a part of future Ask Nick episodes! Subscribe to The ENVY Media Newsletter Today: https://www.viallfiles.com/newsletter  Listen to Humble Brag with Cynthia Bailey and Crystal Kung Minkoff now!  Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humble-brag-with-crystal-and-cynthia/id1774298881  Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4NWA8LBk15l2u5tNQqDcOO?si=3b868996930347e8  Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@humblebragpod Listen To Disrespectfully with Katie Maloney and Dayna Kathan now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick's Book and/or learn more about the show, go to: https://viallfiles.com THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Olipop - Get a free can of OLIPOP: Buy any 2 cans of Olipop in store, and we'll pay you back for One. Works on any flavor, any retailer at https://drinkolipop.com/viall  Ollie - Celebrate your number one valentine, your greatest love, your dog! Head to https://ollie.com/viall, tell them all about your dog, and use code VIALL to get 60% off your Welcome Kit when you subscribe today! Betterhelp - BetterHelp makes it easy to get matched online with a qualified therapist. Sign up and get 10% off at https://betterhelp.com/viall  Quince - Refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Go to https://quince.com/viall for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Clearstem - Discover the CLEARSTEM difference — Because CLEAR SKIN CHANGES EVERYTHING. Go to https://clearstem.com/viall and use code VIALL at checkout for 15% off your first order. To advertise on this podcast please email: [e-mail] or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/theviallfiles   Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 19:05 - Brent Joins  36:40 - Household Headlines 57:15 - Sandra Joins 1:21:28 - Yam Yam Joins 1:34:31 - RHOP Recap 1:48:50 - Outro Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @yamilpr @sassysdt @ex.patriarch @ciaracrobinson @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @the_mare_bare  

What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Val Files reality recap edition. I am your host, Nick, joined by my tan. Sun-kissed. Sun-kissed, wonderful, gorgeous wife. I didn't listen to Nick when he was like, but on the sunscreen, she was like, Sun's the Sun, Eddie. You ever seen that movie?

I was like, all you need is one good burn. And then you're set for summer. It turns into a tan. You're the sunscreen skincare queen, too, no. I would not give myself that name, but if you would like to name that, I will take it. Vitamin D is a very important vitamin and how you get it if you're blocking it with sunscreen. I didn't believe that I needed sunscreen for a really long time growing up, which is crazy. Yeah, can you're on the fair skin side?

Yeah, and I lived in Florida, so I would just pop out. I didn't moisturized. I didn't put sunscreen on. And now speaking of, happy birthday river. That's what happens. Happy birthday river. A two-year-old. Happy new pink hair, Mary first. Most importantly, Mary's hair. Most importantly, my hair is pink. Thank you.

Second most importantly, it's River's birthday. It is River's birthday today. Happy birthday to our baby, dear River. So we took a little trip. We went to River Aramaya. Great, that's a nation. A little getaway to, you know, enjoy the three of us. How did you enjoy it?

Celebrate our daughter's birthday. And how did you enjoy it? It was, yeah. I honestly, for the first time in a while, unplugged a little bit. It's not easy for me. I was like, I know that's not true. I saw the group chats.

Nick Vile. It's Saturday. I was only responding. I was only responding. He's like, and I was three hours ahead. He said, can you please respect my privacy on this vacation?

Also, who do we have on Monday? Yeah. That's not how it went down. I'm just kidding. You did send a really nice text about my fan cam that I made, though. So thank you.

Yeah. I was just trying to compliment people. He was being nice. He did great. Yeah. He also texted us and told us to take off early on Friday to get drinks. Oh, yeah. He did.

Wow. Great boss. Pretty rocking. He was in just like such a great mood because we were on vacation. That's when he was on vacation. Everyone goes on vacation. Yeah. And then on.

I was definitely feeling very reflective, very in my feelings, very kind of just feeling gratitude about. life and things like that on. I think we were very also just like present because we've never really taken a trip like just the three of us and like fully unplugged and like not, you know, it's not been for work or like, you know, for our honeymoon, my mom so graciously came along so that we could still spend time with each other. And this trip we were like, we're just going the three of us. We're going to celebrate river. So we really all three connected and we were all very like, yeah, I felt we were all all very grateful and connected, and we just, it was, it was lovely. How many nights?

Three nights, four days, right? No, four nights. We got there Wednesday night, left Sunday. I don't know what the math is, but we had a lovely time. On Friday night, we had a nice little balcony. And then I took a gummy. Yeah. And then there was a wedding at the hotel next door, of which there were some lovely women

who said hi, who listened to the show if you're listening. Shout out. Thanks for saying you. And I heard the wedding DJ, which was like, he was good. And I was, uh, that's the best way. So I'm chilling on the balcony by myself. Families asleep.

Gummy, digesting. But hitting. And honestly, it was like, it really just, there were some songs that like brought me back to different phases of my life. Uh-huh. As music can do. Yes. And I was just feeling it just like on the gummy, you know,

thinking about my life. Uh-huh. And yeah, and the D-THA was really good. Yeah. Anyways, it really made me think. Natalie and I have said this before about our daughter. We often refer to her as our miracle baby. Obviously, you know, we love her.

Maybe we're biased. But like, as we know, you guys know, now he's obviously very open about some of the miscarriages she's experienced. We've been able to hopefully identify what was causing that. But like, realizing that when River showed up, like, she just, we had no complications. There was nothing there. And it really kind of felt very much. like a miracle for her to be here. And there's like a million reasons why we think of River that way. But like I'm up there on the balcony thinking about my life. And it really just made me think about,

you know, because Natalie and I were talking about like how River's like our miracle baby. And it really honestly does make you feel like, I mean, I remember so many moments in my life. Like I'm old enough, you know, to be like, you know, like there. To reflect on things. There are relationships that are like a lifetime ago, you know, where it's just like that, that relationship. or that time of my life played a huge role in my life. And it also is like a, it's like a fever dream, you know, it was so long ago. And then you think about like all the disappointment or heartbreak or frustrations or

things not going your way. I mean, I remember some breakups. I remember one, I was living with Phyllis. And then I was remember, it was, I was down bad. I was like, honestly having a meltdown. And I was on the phone with my mom saying some of the craziest shit. because I was just so upset about what was happening. And it's just you think about all those moments that like didn't go your way or heartbreak

or things that left scars. Like you thought you wouldn't get out of, you know, you're like, yeah, this one will never feel better. You know, it's just like a time in your life where you just like this, like this will never pass, you know, and the people of this two shall pass and things like that. But like, I'm on the balcony and I'm, you know, I'm thinking about my life and I'm thinking, so I'm thinking about all these moments. And then obviously Catherine O'Hara passed as we all.

know, which was very devastating and very sad. And I'm watching all these tributes to Catherine, all of which are beautiful. And here's this person who truly seemed to live a very full and wonderful life, from accolades to like the friendships, you know, she's just one of those people where everything just has, everyone had something wonderful to say about her. And there's this video going around of Catherine. I think it was her last interview that TMZ did of her and they're asked, you know, what's the role that you will be most proud of? You know, you know, You know, I guess when you, when... Kind of a crazy question.

Like, you've played so many iconic characters. You've been in so many iconic movies. Do we have the clip? We do have the clip. When all is said and done, which one role would you most like to be remembered for? Mother of my children. What about acting? That's a good role, like a personal role.

His wife? Oh, that's good, too. So anyways, I watched that, and I'm just like, obviously on vacation with my family. My daughter's birthday is about to come up. And it really, you know, it really hit home for me. And it really made me think about, like, just all these moments in my life where, like, I, again, things didn't go the way I wanted. My expectations weren't mad.

I was heartbroken. And then you, like, for, at least for me, and I think I speak for my wife as well, you know, but, like, when your kid shows up, like, you're just like, holy shit, you think about all the, little moments in your life, every little moment. I always, like, think about, like, the butterfly effect, right? Like, I don't know, have you guys ever been like, I wish I could do it. that time in my life over, you know, or should I, what if I went to school here instead of there, you know, and then like, sometimes you think about that, you're like, well, I don't know,

I might not have been friends with that person or that person. Sometimes you're like, well, you know, I would have met new friends or whatever. But when your kids shows up, you're just like this, I would never, like, everything had to happen for this, might, for river to be here. The butterfly. Like every, you know, so every, every, every heartbreak, every disappointment, and everything that didn't go my way, like, turns into, like, a miracle that's just part of your journey that, like, had to happen for River to show up. And, like, it just kind of made me think about that. And think about Catherine, it's just, like, it is a reminder that, like, it tends to be the most intimate and meaningful connections you have that are the things that you care about in life,

you know, whether that's children, whether it's a spouse, whether it's a friend, a brother and sister. But it are, it is those connections that you really care about. And it's generally not you know, an award you got at work or, you know, a raise or a job or, you know, or something. It tends not to be. And anyways, thanks to Catherine for reminding me of that. I also thought about my wife. When I met Nally, like, this show existed. It was a popular, successful show.

But, like, I'm living in Venice, I'm renting. But just objectively speaking, my life, I have so much more in my life after Nally showed up in it. You know, I talk a lot about on this show, like, how your decisions matter and, like, you know, like, think, you know, you have to. But, like, making a decision and choosing each other and choosing my wife is, like, objectively made my life better. I have so much more now in my life than I had before I had you in it. And it's just, like, kind of great to see. That doesn't always happen for some people.

They're like, damn, things really went off the rails after you, Andrew. once we had. But I'm very grateful to, you know, I don't think the show would be where it is if it weren't for you. And obviously, I don't think you would have a river. You definitely would not have river. You would probably have some other baby.

Wouldn't he as cute? Wouldn't he? He might still be out there playing the field. That's true. You could still be single. He could still be rollerblading in Venice. Getting massages. And painting, Bob Ross.

I mean, listen, my single days, I appreciate them. They were great. They played a big role. in my life. They were also probably the saddest times of my life. Shout out Phyllis. You know? Shout out Phyllis.

And this is someone who can really enjoy being alone. This is the introvert in me. But like loneliness catches up to you, you know, sometimes. After a while, you're just like, ugh. Anyways, I'm... Well, we also have the Age of Attraction trailer that dropped over... I think you dropped Thursday. It looks really good.

I think we should play it. When you tell people your age, they put a stage. to that. The truth is when love is there and love is real age won't matter. Here age is just a number. You'll be dating without ever knowing how old your partner is. I don't know if these guys are my age, my dad's age, my grandpa's age. I'm getting nervous. Good luck. What are you gonna get? An oyster shooter? I say we go for it. Just because they're an aphrodisiac? Yeah. You want to hear something? Absolutely insane. All this chat about Epidue Jackson, everything that it leads to, like kids. In a regular situation,

I would probably want to fix you up with my daughter. God. I am petrified that he's too young. My oldest is 29, and I think he's in his 30s. Everyone thinks I'm significantly older than I am. I think I'm going to shock her. Got you seatbelt on?

I am March 11th Only on Netflix I think you guys are gonna like it I want to know how old he is like so badly I can tell you I can tell me after me I can tell you

I really want to know You can't wait a few weeks No Can you can't Can you wait now? I'm not patient I'll try What are the people saying

I mean people seem excited for it I think like it's one of those shows where it's a concept that makes people want to watch, regardless if you're into dating shows or if you're just fascinated by the potential outcome. It really brings out the haters and the fans. Yeah. Yeah, it does.

It's like, oh, my God, I hate this so much, but definitely will be watching. I was like, remember everyone's opinion when they heard the concept of love is blind. We're just like, oh, for fuck's sake, that's never going to work. And then it's like, oh, my God, season 25. Let's fucking go.

Well, we are at season 10. I mean, it works. Is it crazy watching a trailer for what y'all filmed and knowing that it's coming. And everything that happened. It's not only coming together, but it's coming out. No, it's crazy. It's exciting.

Yeah. It's really exciting. I mean, I wouldn't have been able to do any of that without you. Did you guys do like a lot of coaching with them? Like, did they ever come to you for advice? Like, you know how in The Bachelor like, Jesse Palmer is like giving advice to people? Or at least there are scenes of it. At least there are scenes where he's doing that.

We have a couple. There's a couple scenes. But again, we're just, you know, as hosts, you learn as host. It's not about us. It's not about you. You're just the vehicle. Obviously, we were, you know, we're very grateful to Velvet Hammer, the production company who came up with this idea and obviously thought of us to be its host.

And given our age difference in our wonderful relationship, you know, I think, you know, I think the hope is we are an example that this can work for people. It's not for everyone. It's for some people. But I think this general premise like love is. blind is that people are challenged out there to find connections and relationships and what society kind of pushes you into or what the dating apps push you into. Sometimes you're not really focused on just the compatibility aspect, but really just more focused on, you know, initial

chemistry or what you think you're supposed to go for. And it was really exciting to see how this environment that we brought, you know, 40 singles into really opened their own. eyes to different possibilities. And obviously that, you know, experiences something I had with my wife, you know, when we first met. We joke about that story, you know, about how it took a while for me to wake up. But yeah, we're excited about it and happy to be a part of it. And we were very appreciative of Velvet Hammer and Netflix for including us. I did see comments of how did I not get cast for season one and how do I get cast for season two? So I'm fingers crossed that there is a, but you got to watch the first. Yeah, you are going to have to watch.

There will be season two. If you want to be casted on season two. You must watch. 40 singles. That's a lot of 20 women, 20 men. How many couples? How many people does it follow? You're going to have to watch.

There's a lot of connections. There are more connections than relationships they end up following because, again, we didn't really, we didn't force anything. It was people were allowed to date who they wanted. So that included some people who were very similar in age and there were other people who had larger age differences. The show, being the premise that it is, tend to follow those relationships that there were more age differences. But there were a ton of connections made, which was very encouraging and just kind of speaks to the authenticity of the environment that created.

We do have a great episode lined up for you. Brent McLeary joins us in a moment. He has been very actively following the Justin Baldoni and Blake lively case. And while a lot of people out there, it seems like there's a lot of misinformation and more just like opinion. even us, obviously we have a strong point of view, but like I think at times we're not into the weeds of some of the granular details. And then like when I, you know, when we speak on it, I always wish I could probably be more articulate about it. But he is someone who I have followed with great interest in someone who I think really has an accurate picture of some of the finer

details of this case, specifically the retaliation aspect of this case that, you know, Blake is bringing forward against Justin. And I think there is more and more information coming out that is eye opening and I think very damning, but it's always hard for me to kind of present that in a way that's digestible for you guys. So we thought we bring on Brent to help us understand some of the things going on and being presented in this case as we follow it. Also, we have former faithful of two seasons ago in the castle. Sandra Diaz Twine from Survivor. Winner of Survivor. A two-time Survivor winner. Queen of Survivor. Queen of Survivor. So she joins us in a later this episode to help us break down the most recent episode

of Traders. Also, Jam Jam will be joining us as well to talk about his unceremonious exit. That was brutal. But he went out with the bang, I got to say. He did. Oh, yeah, he did. So that is all going on. Plus,

Karen Hugar is out. And she had a nice conversation with Andy. I'm already obsessed with her. Oh, yeah. The Grand Da. Oh, yeah. There's clips of so much to like. Clips of the Reuter. The reunion trailer.

The reunion. Oh, my God. Karen talking to Wendy. When she comes in being like, I hope you all were on your best behavior or whatever she said. I was like, oh. You need to talk less. Listen to me.

Whatever that line was crazy. Listen to me, professor. You need to speak. You need to shut the fuck up. It was wild. Incredible. Wild. We got some Bev Hills.

So lots to get into. Also, do not forget. Speaking of Netflix show, Temptation Island. Well, it'll be coming this year. And finally, the Vile Files is doing. a live show. The Netflix of the joke festival is happening May 6th in Los Angeles. And if you want to see finally the Vial Files live on the road, we will be in Los Angeles with the cast of this upcoming season's Temptation Island. So lots of fun. Bring your girls, bring your partners, bring yourself.

Doesn't really matter. We will be having a great time. So join us on May 6. Tickets are now available. Just go to the link in the episode description or our website for more information. You can get those tickets. Now they are going to be going fast, so do not wait, or you may miss out. Also, Valfiles Plus is available. It's ad-free now, so if you don't want to listen and whatnot, you can sign up for Vow files plus for ad-free episodes plus update special where you get all your favorite updates from our Ashton callers, as well as our deep dives into all your favorite reality TV shows like Traders, Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, Salt Lake City, Housewives, all that.

much more and our pop extra roundup. So lots of things to get yourself through the day with Vial Files Plus. So just go to our website and sign up. It's free to sign up. You'll be glad that you did. All right. Up next, Brent helps us break down some of the new

and very shocking evidence that is coming forward out of the Blake lively in Justin Bedoni case. And that is next. Well, stop putting a Band-Aid on your skin issues and get to the root cause with ClearStim. ClearStim is the first clinically tested skincare line made with zero poor clogging ingredients. That's their clear pore promise. No more choosing between acne care that dries you out in anti-aging products that clog your pores. Clearstim was a product that I found when I had just found out I was pregnant with River. I was stressed about like all of my skin care. I'm like, is this right? Should I still be using this? Is this damaging my skin or my baby in some way? I don't know what's going on. And a dear friend of mine recommended clear stem. And I have not gone back. It has been products that I have trusted throughout pregnancy, postpartum. And now in my life as just

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pop is much, much lower in sugar than your conventional soda with two to five grams of sugar from natural sources and no added sugar like the sodas you will find on the shelves. Brent, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Pleasure to be here. Well, very excited to have you. I told our audience that I have been following you on social for some time now because I've really enjoyed your coverage of this case.

And anyone who's listened to the show knows kind of the position where I stand, which obviously has this case unfolded. I followed it with great interest, specifically around the retaliation aspect of this case. It is a little scary to think about the way people can use social media to now go after their accusers or their enemies or just people they don't like and how that can have just a really devastating effect on the people who are affected. But I do think a lot of things are lost in this case with all the discourse going on online. seems like the intention of a lot of people who follow this case, especially the ones supporting Justin, they want to bring in confusion. They want to bring in a bunch of like, well, let's, let's break down Taylor Swift's and Blake Liley's friendship and et cetera, et cetera, where I feel like a lot

of the very important details of this case seem to be getting lost in all of the kind of, I guess, distraction. So I would love for you to just kind of give us your breakdown of how you've seen this case so far. And then specifically, help us understand and help my audience understand just the retaliation of this accusation leveled against Justin Baldoni and who is tag and who have they represented in the past and what are the some of the tactics that they use. And why is it so damning for this case as it relates to Justin? Yeah. So I think you hit the nail on the head there, right, Nick? Is this case when you pull back, it's not necessarily about Blake lively or Justin Baldoni, but in the way that which the press is being weaponized to discredit victims or anybody who speaks up about misconduct

or any of these sorts of allegations. And we've seen this time and time again when a woman speaks up and then she's just ripped apart in the press. So tag that Justin Hayders is his crisis PR is founded by Melissa Nathan, who used to work at Hiltzic Strategies. And so when she left, she took a bumper of her clients. And so she has like a history of, kind of representing these men who end up with having problematic allegations against them, and there seems to be this online backlash against them. And through this case, what we've seen is, you know, Blake lively alleged that she came forward with these sexual harassment claims.

They agreed to workplace accommodations, filmed the second half of the movie without any incident, but that Justin kind of got nervous that he saw that Ryan Reynolds had unfollowed him on social media and went to his publicist to say, hey, I want to plan. I need something to feel protected. So he hires Melissa Nathan and the crisis PR team, and they come up with a plan to protect his reputation and to go after Blake Lightley. Now, they have said that they only plan to do this. Their defense has been, you know, yes, we came up with a plan.

This was our plan. We were going to attack her on all of these things. We're going to attack her for, you know, having a history of being difficult to work with and being tone deaf. And then an online campaign kind of came up along all those same talking points. But it's just a coincidence that they match all. those same talking points. And what we've seen is all around the same time of that they're trying to execute their plan. Yes, yes. Like the day after they say, hey, let's execute the plan. Suddenly

the plan just unfolds just organically. And organic has been their big key word. And what we've seen is just a couple of weeks ago, a bunch of evidence got unsealed on the ducet. And it shows that Melissa Nathan and her team were talking to each other about, hey, we should plant a story in one case with the Daily Mail saying, hey, we should do a talking point about how problematic it was, how she misrepresented by the movie, didn't advertise it well, she's tone deaf, and they list out all of these talking points. And then they talked to the Daily Mail, and two days later, Alison Boshoff prints an article talking about how problematic, like, Gladly is. You know, she marketed her alcohol brand at an after party. She was doing this. She wasn't talking about all of

the domestic violence, everything that's in their list of talking points. And then they're shown tag celebrating the article saying that Alison Boshoff came through for us and like congratulations oh thank you and so we have all of the pieces of of this showing that for the duration of the campaign that they hired tag for they were planting articles but it wasn't just articles against Blake lively which is the confusing thing about this there was an article that came out in the Hollywood reporter exposing that's justin had hired Johnny Debs crisis PR right which looks bad right And the idea was that they kind of pinned this on Blake Lively's PR saying she had obviously planted this to harm Justin. Text messages on the docket show, however, that Melissa Nathan herself planted this article and then was joking with journalists afterwards about how this was going to bring in all of the problematic men that they were going to hire her now and that like she could corner the market essentially on problematic men looking for PR.

So it was almost like she planted that story just it was her own PR. Yeah. Yeah. There's text messages between her and the author, Pam McClintock, and Melissa Nathan's asking, like, hey, when can I expect this article? But it's a pattern of behavior from TAG where a number of their clients have these smear sites that support them and then defame their targets, a whole bunch of fake social media accounts. And then they seed these links across the internet. And they did this for the Alexander Brothers. They've done this for Amanda Ghost. Stephanie Jones, which is how the whole Blake lively thing started in the first place. was that Stephanie had seen this smear website against her and started to investigate. She hired a forensic firm. And that's what then uncovered all of the text messages showing that Justin was then hiring Tag to do the same against Black Gladly. So pulling back, we're now seeing like this campaign by Tag and Melissa Nathan, where she's

been working with Justin's lawyer, Brian Friedman, and this other gentleman by the name of Jed Wallace, who's kind of like a digital fixer to basically enact these smear campaigns to kind of change online opinion and they've been doing this for it looks like about a decade and all of this is now being uncovered just simply from this case that's crazy and then again when you think about it like just in before this case started was a man who made his entire career in platform presenting himself as an ally and a self-identified male feminist and things like that did ted talks about this wrote books and if you're having a hard time um you're having a hard time um believing Justin would do something like this, again, it just speaks to like, why would this guy,

you know, there's this famous TED talk where Justin's like, are you man enough to even believe the women if their allegations are even against you? And so then here's this guy who had some, you know, again, like the initial allegations were just like, hey, you're making me feel weird and uncomfortable at work. And here's a list of like, what, 17 different things. Just stop. Right. It was this more like, I'm not taking this any further, just like, can you stop being weird at work? And then we'll move forward. And his response to that was to hire this team of people who had a long list of, even if, you know, even if Justin at that point would thought of himself as this great guy, there was clearly a long list of people who, many of which had some very damning accusations against them. And unless you're delusional and think all of these men are just victims of, of, of, of, of, you.

resentful people. It would be a really bad look for a guy who thinks himself as this ally, to want to hire this group of people who have such a long reputation of going after women, or going after victims, many of which are women. Yeah, and I think that's the thing for me is, like, if you have this platform, you would think that you would surround yourself with people of a similar mind and that somebody, even if Justin himself was kind of lost in that insecurity and that fear of, oh, like, things are going to come out about me, that somebody would pull him aside and say, hey, you realize doing this is counter to everything you stand for.

And in fact, his publicist, Stephanie Jones, had actually reached out to Wayfarer and to Justin to warn him about Melissa Nathan and said, hey, this is the sort of stuff she does. This is what she covers up. You don't want to hire her because not only is it bad luck, but, like, this could damage your brand and your reputation, even if you just hire her and you genuinely believe,

right, that you are being falsely accused and you want to push back. This is not the way to do it. But it seems knowing the history of Melissa Nathan, they didn't really investigate much further. And I suspect it's because that's exactly why they wanted to hire him. How do you think this case unfolds? I mean, not specifically with just Blake and Justin, but to your point where it's just like, the internet's only getting more and more out of control. And if there's one company like Tag who's doing this, no doubt there's going to be more people

trying to replicate what they're doing. How do it mean, is it just, is that what the internet has become? You know, these people who like where can we find protections so or victims out there so they don't have to worry about people, you know, like what's stopping the average Joe from having a vendetta against a coworker and re and hiring someone and paying a little bit money to have them harassed online or bullied because they, you know, they, they, they want to discredit them. Yeah. Unfortunately, Nick, I think the answer is there isn't really, right?

And that's kind of really the big takeaway from this case. A bunch of advocacy groups and organizations submitted amicus briefs to the court to kind of give more of that framing to talk about this. And that's exactly what they talked about is that this is unfortunately something that can happen to any regular person who makes these sort of allegations or encounters this kind of misconduct. That the courts are often used to weaponize against them and that you can file a case. counter suit against somebody baseless and just kind of drain them financially, emotionally, force them to go through discovery and have to hand over all of their text messages and invade their privacy. You know, even after you have gone through like these really disturbing and uncomfortable

situations, then your abuser still then gets to weaponize the court and go after you. And right now, there just are not protections. There was a new law that was passed in California to kind of combat this and to give triple penalties against somebody who files these kinds of lawsuits. And that's one of the key decisions in this case that's going forward is it'll be a test of that new law to see whether that gets enacted against Justin. And his now dismissed claims and his now dismissed lawsuit could end up being a real financial penalty to him. And Blake Labley would be awarded like treble damages for him trying to weaponize the courts against her and silence her. As someone who's followed this case

with great closeness, how do you think that? case will play out and do you think there will be a time where the general public or the people online at this point people are just like committed to their point of view or do you think there's a chance that some people might you know hear some hear more and more about how these people work and become aware of of their ability to be misled or or manipulated online i've definitely seen from my own audience the comments that i get that there is a section of people who did initially believe Justin or have been kind of convinced by some of the disinformation and that now having seen the evidence that's come out and like you talked about this is not just Blake lively now

a number of other women on that production have come out and said that Justin made them uncomfortable crossed boundaries uh I think like through the depositions I think we have like 10 women in total now from not just it ends with us but other productions as well and I think that has helped to turn the tide but I do think you're right that there is a certain section of the internet who now will never move on from this, regardless of what happens in the court case, that whenever there is a Blake lively project or whenever she's mentioned, there's going to be a ton of comments repeating these same things, even if they end up getting dismissed out of court. And, you know, there's a financial impact to that, right? There's a damage to your career and your reputation that you will never be

able to undo. I feel like I've seen a lot of, you know, anytime an article or social media post something about this case. I feel like the comments are always either hashtag Justin, justice for Justin, or oh my God, I'm so tired of seeing these two people's faces. Like, do you think part of their tactic was like, let's just put so much out there that everyone is just like so tired of hearing about it that no one cares by time we actually come around to the trial? No, absolutely. And if you look at the scenario planning document that time put together, you know, they talk about that. They're like, they really want to push all of this information out there to just kind of make people bored of it, right?

Because if you can get that initial wave and put your story out first, and then by the time the corrections come around, everybody's like, oh, I'm so over it, then effectively your messaging and narrative has won out. So all of this has become a PR battle. And when you think about underneath it all what this is, about making women uncomfortable on set, a man who really used his platform as like somebody who was safe for women and wanted to make this movie. And the whole reason Colleen gave him the rights to this movie

was that she felt he was the right person and he was a safe person to do this. And now you have not just Colleen, but Danny Slate, Blake Lively, Alex Sacks, and the screenwriter Christy Hall all saying that he signed lined them on this project and didn't really listen to their input and made them uncomfortable.

You know, it's just so disheartening to see his platform weaponized and used in this way. Yeah. And what's also so crazy about it too is while these things may start inorganically, I do believe, and I quite honestly know that what's crazy is like once you get something started, then the organic part does happen because the way people operate, you know, the internet is all about trends, right? Your dancing trend, your lip syncing trend, whatever, whatever is going viral, people want

to jump on. They want to have their viral moment. So if they notice, you know, anti-Blake and pro-justing content performing better, there is an incentive for those people to make that content and then double and triple down. It starts warping your perspective of reality and you just start jumping on trends and giving your point of view. And then that part is organic. It started inorganically.

But what's crazy is just how easy it is to manipulate other people and those other people can feel included by being part of some quote unquote movement that never was authentic in the first place. But it's, in that part is even crazier to think about. Yeah. And I mean, we see that a lot. Like as we have all of these discussions about like celebrities and reality TV, right? The conflict and the drama is really what gets people engaged. So the more you can lean into and sell that, you can start that wildfire, you know, with an initial spark. And then from there, let's kind of people's natural inclination to really dive into the controversy, explode that out.

But the danger here is, you know, we're not just talking about like celebrity gossip. We're talking about somebody who was in an unsafe work environment made these complaints. And what that does then is just make it so much harder for everybody else, not just celebrities and reality stars, but, you know, regular individuals who come forward with these self-valigations because people have been trained through this process to dismiss and to just instantly to throw out that, oh, she must be lying or like she's doing it for attention.

That's crazy. Well, Brent, I really appreciate taking the time. Where can people find you, follow you, if they want to learn more about the stuff that you're following? Yeah, absolutely. So I go by the Handel X Patriarch over on TikTok, YouTube, and Instagram.

Like you said, covering the case and doing a lot of the work showing what's actually on the docket rather than what's in the top lights. Keep up the great work and come back soon. We appreciate you taking it. the time. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.

Crazy. Yeah, it is crazy. Anyway, I appreciate Brent, but that is why we've, you know, had the position we've had for the longest time. And it matters less that Blake Lively and Taylor Swift might refer to Justin as a bitch and maybe matters more about how Justin handled someone coming forward and saying, hey, you're making me feel a little uncomfortable. And instead of just like respecting those wishes,

you know, spent thousands and thousands of dollars to destroy these people's credibility. I mean, it's really dark. I mean, think about it. You know, it's just like when you feel like the whole world's coming at you and making these just horrible comments about you in your DMs, just harassing you.

Like most people aren't built for something like that and know how to handle that and don't have the resources and the support system to protect themselves. That's a scary word. world. And for all the people who think that it was Blake and Ryan, who are the powerful people and not Justin, Justin's like business partner is a literal billionaire. And he was his financier. And so in the terms of finances, you know, Justin has a lot of power and access to money and things like that. So that part is, you know, really, it's just wild. Anyway. All right. Well, flipping it to a slightly lighter note, let's get into some headlines that happened over the weekend.

We had the Grammys, Justin Bieber, hot. Hot. Hot. As I've been told. Chapel Rhone. Hot. It's giving us the taste of Coachella. Hot. Maybe I'll go. You know, maybe I'm not. Chapel Rone, it didn't do it from me. She's not for you. Not for you. Not for you. Not for you.

Did you see that clip of Sabrina Carpenter on the carpet with the paparazzi? And she was like, you guys are really quiet this year. Chaperone really made a movement, huh? Did you see that clip of her being, they were like, what's your, like, it was at Sundance, because she was there for the moment with Charlie. And they were like, what's your all-time favorite, like, moment with the pap rotsie? And she's like, probably when I told them to shut the fuck on. And I'm like, I love when she's a bitch.

It's my favorite thing in the world. It's hot as fuck. Yeah, what's a good Grammys? I mean, you even had Cher for getting to announce the winner and then announcing the wrong winner. Did you see that? Lola Land again? No, it was basically a Lala Land moment. Adele says Dezim.

Adele Dazim. No, she fully... I'll never get over that. Minds. Oh, it's the funniest thing that happened. She fully walked off stage and forgot. Like, she did her little speech and was like, okay, cool. And then he was like, uh, sure, you want to announce the winners?

And then she comes back out and then she says like, I think the runner up. No, no, no. No. So what happened is she basically, she starts announcing the winner and then she's like, oh, I thought I was going to read this off the teleprompter, but I have to use these cards. And then she opened up the card. And then she was like, it was Kendrick Lamar and Sizz's Luther. And then she said Luther Vandross. But she didn't even say Luther Vandross.

She said Luther Gangross. And then it cuts to Kendrick and Siza. And then she's like, she immediately tried to backtrack. No, she goes, oh, I mean Kendrick Lamar and it was too late. I think she should have gone never too much, never too much, never too much. Do you remember when Kendall Jenner was reading a teleprompter? Was it for one direction? I don't even remember.

It was a while ago. It was so long ago. So long ago. Reading a teleprompter is hard. I bet it goes kind of fast, doesn't it? Yeah. You have to really keep up.

You can't take your time. Yeah. Also, it's like imagine, like I don't, for any of the contacts wears in the room or the world, sometimes when you have contacts in, you look far away,

you still can't see shit. They get cloudy and I don't know what you would do with the teleprompter. It does go fast. Also, shout out to Bad Bunny for being the first artist to win album of the year with a primarily Spanish language album.

Yeah, let's go. Oh my God. like moment before when he got called up I was just like saw this Gary Stiles of course like saying that he's the winner just like too iconic but you know like he was just like this was so surreal for him that he was just like that no yeah I love watching during any award show just like you when you can feel how emotional they are about just like how surreal it is for them to be there and to be in that moment and it's just like I feel like because I'm always under the impression that I'm like they know it's this right like they give them a heads up like I

You know, like, they know that they're nominated for a Grammy, but then I'm like, but the winner, like, I gotta know it's them. And then it's like to see Bad Bunny find out in that moment, it was like, oh, wait, no, maybe they don't know. Yeah. I don't think they do. I mean, think about, like, Beyonce last year, like, when Adele went up and was like, Beyonce should have won this.

Like, I feel like they really are funny out in real time. But Bad Bunny had an incredible speech. I loved it. I love him. I loved the album. Lil'i Young also won something. Olivia Dean won one best new artist. Olivia Dean.

Lauren had tech his shoes. I don't know if you saw that. Well, his in-ears were messed up. So it was like the wrong time. So he was singing off time and then he just took his in-ear out and recovered. He said he could hear the echo. Like that's what his was going on in-hear. He was hearing like an echo like three times.

Yeah. Those in-years, I mean, that's tough. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know who crushed Tyler the creator? Incredible performance from him. Incredible performance from Lady Gaga. Incredible performance from the diva herself, Addison Ray.

And I just want to highlight Olivia Dean again because I feel like, I don't know how long she's been at this, but it feels like she's had 10 hits in the last six months and deserves every single, like, accolade that she's amazing. She's influenced a culture of kitten heels and, like, fashion from, I don't know what era is she, like, inspired by. She's like, Basanova. She's, like, French. Like, she's just like, there's something that's so classy and just timeless about her music. Welcome back, Nora Jones. Thank you.

I was a fan. Me too. Well, we also have all of the press tours for Weathering Heights. State of the Lord of Margot Robbie. I think I'm gonna... I don't know how actors do it. I don't know how actors, partners do it. Because I'm like, yeah, no.

Because they're all falling in love. Did you see that hot-ass magazine spread that they did where it's like him and between each other's legs? But the way she talks about them is if she was just like... I think more people should lean in. When she's like, it was raining and he covered my face from like the set rain or whatever. She's like, I said that was the most romantic thing anyone has ever done for me. And I'm like, you're on.

husband is sitting at home being like, hey, just watching our kid. There was a star is born with Bradley Cooper and Lady Gaga. Right. There could be a hundred people in the room. What was the show with a Jessica Chastain? Oh. And Oscar Wyat. No, it was scenes from a marriage.

It was a TV show remake of the Ingmargman. Anyone but you? Whitney Sweeney. Whitney. Len Powell and Cindy Sweeney. Cindy Sweeney and Glenn Powell. Baby girl. Whitney Sweeney and Glenn Glau.

Yeah, those guys. And the Delta Zee. Or some of these press tours, you were just like, God, they're in love. There's like, oh my God. And then you're like, oh, they're married with someone else? Like the caressing and the speaking, you really have to have a great therapist and really be secure in your relationship to have these people do the press that they do with each other and really just talk about their obsession and their connection. They're just codependent on each other. They got each other the ring.

that was like forever and always or whatever. I'm like if like Olivia Jade or like Margo Robbie's husband is like, it's not hot. Like you know what I mean? Like I'm just like, because you have to be used to this by now, right? I'm like, Margo Robbie is one of the hottest people forever. Yeah. That I'm just like everybody wants to see her with whoever she's co-starring with or wants to see her like with anybody.

Yeah, no, the amount of therapy I would need if Danny was co-starring with Margo Robbie. I would. And her, I feel like the only clip I've seen. We're secure, right? The only clip I've seen of Margo talking about her husband, and maybe it wasn't even on this press tour, but she was like, yeah, you know, he was an extra in Harry Potter. Well, her husband is also, he's like the... She was one of the kids that got pushed out of the way in the third Harry Potter. You know what?

That would be enough for me, too. That would be enough for me too. Margot Robbie's husband is like the executive producer, like they co-run a production company. Her production company. Yeah. And that Sidney and her fiancé, remember, he was like

also produced ex-fiance sorry. Yeah, ex-fiance. Don't get about Scoot. But they were like also working together. So there's so many like,

do they know? Is this part of the process? Are they in on it? Lean in. Yes. Why not lean in? Part of the marketing. You do a chemistry read

with someone for a reason. I think go for it. I think anyone, but you showed that. It's like that what happens if the partner's not in on it. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I mean, singing in the rain kind of takes you behind the scenes there where it's like they were, you know, had a fake relationship. Yeah. Sorry. I love it.

No, you're completely right. I love the reference of singing in the rain. No, yeah, let's talk about singing in the rain. I love it. Great film. Anyway. There were a ton of reality TV stars

at the weathering lights, which is very fascinating. Ariane Maddox. Oh, yes. Yeah. She had a ring. People are assuming. Which this is the most frustrating,

I think, coverage of women on red carpets. It's like they're wearing an outfit. They are in couture. They are wearing fashion. They have jewelry. They have accessories. And like there's only so many fingers that a ring looks good on. And like the pointer finger is always like just not going to be it. It's not it. It's my smallest and daintiest finger. Exactly. And so like the fact that some people, and maybe she is secretly engaged and like, you know, more power too. More power too. The day I did it into Slay. But like sometimes I think it's just women wearing jewelry and everyone's like, oh my God.

We got dressed up for an event. There's only so many rings that sizes that fit on what finger. And it's just kind of like, just let it be. I think speculating on marriage and whether or not someone's having a baby is like the two most disrespectful things that you could do after a woman just spent who knows how many hours in hair and makeup and getting dressed for you to do all of that and be like, I think she might have a babe bum. I think she's engaged. Like, are you kidding me?

Yeah. But there's no way she didn't have that conversation with the person styling her, right? Like, she had to know that wearing the ring there. But it also, like, it was like a Jimstone ring. It wasn't like it was like this big engagement ring diamond. It was like, right? But it's saying it tends to be sometimes even like a nice, like maybe super expensive, but like it doesn't even have to be like a single like engagement ring looking thing for it to be speculation that you're engaged.

I don't know. I mean, I have two. I have rings on both my ring fingers. so I'd like to announce I'm married to the moment. I love you. Anyways, Mormon wives,

there's some tea popping off. I think they're filming, right? But Latia... I think they're always filming. They're all... There's a camera, whether it's a TikTok phone

or a natural camera. Literally. They're always working. Leanne, Taylor's mom, is coming for Latia. And she commented... Tia from Bachelor fame, Grant...

Her mom said, she's not a mom or a wife. Which did she like? Which that was in response to someone saying that she was going to be on this next season. Yes. As a cast member. Well, and she's also filming. Yeah, we've... Well, I don't know if we know she's a cast member. We've seen

her filming scenes. Yeah, there could be a huge difference between like someone who is not to use the, you know, friend of quite literally. And it would make sense that Latia would show up part of the Hulu family, Bachelor Nation. They love a crossover. They love that.

I think she is good friends with Layla and Miranda, you know, like a few of the girls. But it's a huge difference between that and like being literally a part of the cast, you know, you know, I, right now I don't think she's in the running to like be, you know, in the intro packages or getting her hair wet. But that is interesting that Taylor's mom is like entering the chat, you know, it's like, oh. Is she one of them? Leanne loves to enter the chat. I mean. It's like what, Leanne, like, how do you feel about Latina?

You know, it's like what's going on there? Yeah. Well, I'll never forget when Dakota had his thing with Leanne's friend. It was like Leanne took it really hard. And Taylor was kind of like... It was her friend. It was Leanne's friend. No, I know.

But I'm like, I would take that hard too. No, but I'm saying, like, it was, whatever. It was like, it took it hard for a second and then she was fine. But Leanne was, like, devastated. Because it was her friend. So she lost her friend. Well, I guess Taylor was her boyfriend, baby daddy. Maybe, yes.

Miranda did defend Latia and. she had a comment where she said, as someone who knows Latia very well, there is so much more to her than y'all know. Legit, one of the best people I know. And whether she makes appearances or not, the show is going to evolve because our lives evolve. I'll welcome in parentheses most of whoever joins the ride so long as they're, they are a real part of our real lives. Yeah, so she'll be making, she'll be part of it. She'll show up, just like some other people show up. I mean, she also said, we don't only have relationships with people who are wives and moms.

Period. Also, yeah, I mean, I think as these, the main characters, you know, they're all getting these opportunities. You got Taylor, she's the Bachelorette, Whitney's on Broadway. Layla, Jesse, all of them, Michaela Macy. They're all, like, getting opportunities. They're becoming stars. It's going to be harder and harder to keep these women together as like this friend group. And if the show evolves, they may have to evolve into showing these women's lives and the friends that they have.

and then how they occasionally intersect. Because it is crazy how like season one, it was just like all of these moms on TikTok, living in Utah, getting together to film TikToks. And that was their, that was them hanging out. And now all of these women are,

you know, like Jesse was just at the Grammys last night. You know, like all of these women are out and doing things and busy. And so it's like, yeah, they can't really make it seem like they're all just hanging out doing TikToks anymore.

Like they're, they're both. And as far as I know, because big fan, love Miranda, but I think that Miranda's friends, was originally friends with Latia and she's also friends with the other girl, Sheenia, the one that, and Kate, chases, X. But I'm like, I feel like that's also to like help enrich Miranda story, because I think even to your point, she wasn't really in the last season. But I'm also like, I don't know, maybe we shouldn't let you bring in friends because

I feel like there's like a lot of like drama that's just not going to be able to be like fully shown. I think I appreciate it. I think we need to like lean off of like the relationship divorce drum of it all. I feel like you can bring in people that are able to be messy without tearing apart a family. You know what I mean? Like I think it's a good balance. According to Taylor Frankie Paul, she commented about Chenya, the one that was supposedly hooked up with Dakota and was trying to make out with her during Coachella. Sheena gave it her best shot and still horribly failed with a clown emoji. So maybe she's in one scene? You know what I mean? Like that's where I'm like,

okay, so am I going to see anything about this story that I was following? So I have It is crazy to think about that these women now have to face the possibility of friends or more often acquaintances doing things like sleeping with their ex-husbands or, you know, mothers, whatever the fuck. Just friend. Yeah. Simply to get a shot at being on TV. That. And no doubt that happens. A hundred percent. That's why I said.

I was like I kind of feel like it's a, the thing I liked about Secret Lives and Mormon wives, what I do like is that this is a real group of friends. And it's like they show up for each other where I don't want to see a bunch of random people that want to get on television that are willing to cut these women just to have a storyline, which may end up on the cutting room floor anyways because we're about two years behind when it comes to the seasons coming out. You know what I mean? Like Shania, nobody's talking about her, but she was everywhere on my free page for a minute there. So, you know, I'm interested. Well, to wrap it up, next gen L.A. is filming. Who has been, has anyone been confirmed on cast? Bro. Child, I believe.

They've been confirmed, or is this all just... Sophia, Mansky, Nick Dubrow, and Mason Grammer have been seen filming with cameras. And I believe someone also from Love Island. I didn't recognize the name, but is also in one of the shots filming something. Okay, hot take, but I am getting kind of tired of this where it's just like I feel like I'm introduced to somebody that I, sorry, don't care about on like a TV show and a reality TV show. And then they're showing up on another show. And it's just like, I don't know, the inauthenticity of it just drives me nuts. What do you mean?

Like, for example, just like, for example, seeing, like, Chris from Perfect Match being on a Vanderpump rules or, like, there was somebody else. You're saying network hopping. Yeah, like, I just, like, watched another show recently or even, like, Marciano now on Secret Lives and Mormon Rives from Vanderpump. Like, I'm just like this, like, I saw you two years ago on a reality TV. Oh, Yemen. I'm watching Love Island All Stars right now. And Yemen is, uh, from last season of Temptation Island is one of the, uh, Love Island USA guys that, like, they, they, they, they. Yeah, but I mean, you know, one, there's only so many people who are willing to do some of the things that are required on reality TV.

And then for all your misses, you do have some wins. Rob, true. On Traders was a, I believe. Yeah, but like Traders is a show that's like already based off of bringing other people from like different networks. So it's like I'm prepared for that. But like, for example, like you're, you know, it's just like. I don't believe that like Chris has been a struggling waiter when he was also going on perfect match. Yeah, that's that's true.

Chris one's jarring. I mean, I'm just, like, sometimes, yeah, you get your Chris's and you people aren't excited about it.

They're not. It's just a hot take. I don't think it's a general opinion. Sometimes you have your robs where it was like he was, he was, he was in the, what was he was,

he was Love Island, but he was Casa Moore, and then he came back. But that's the same show, same network. But a lot of people don't even like that. And even traders

still same network. So I'm like, it's not that crazy to me, but you just don't, you don't want them going different networks. I don't like the idea You want to tell me that this man.

You're a streamer loyalist. I don't want you telling me that this man is struggling as a waiter. NBC head. But then has already had opportunities to try to win money or to go on these shows. And then it's like, I'm a struggling actor. I just don't buy it. This guy was on perfect match, which is not exactly like one of the more premiere shows, specifically for men, if they're looking to make money from reality TV,

being a mid-tier character on perfect match isn't exactly going to make it rain. So I believe very much that he could be struggling. And men in the reality TV space often make way less money. Well, he's got another thriving business as well on only fans. I'm just saying. That's why I'm like, it doesn't work for me. It's not hard to believe that he's struggling.

But it's not hard for me to believe that he can't find other ways to make money knowing that he is. So I'm just like, you're not, it's just this whole like, I don't. Your belief in watching Vanderpump is to believe that The only way they can be on Vanner Pump is because they need the money. Because I feel like they're actually employed. They're not employed there for in hopes of being on a TV show. Once the OG cast got too famous, they were like, okay, we got to switch gears because no one's going to think they're going to think they're going to work. And like our events and our book launches and all of our other things that we're doing.

So that point, Angelica also did watch It Happens Live. And she was like, none of us are famous. Like we didn't come here for the fame. But it's also like some of you guys kind of did come here for the fame. And Angelica, how many followers does she have on everything on the cast? And then I found out she has like $100 and something a thousand dollar or so. but clone across. Yeah.

Super authentic. Well? All right, Justin, you want to rapid fire some Ultimate Girls' trip headlines, please? There's a lot still going on. Alexia Napola and Marisol were spotted filming in Miami. Also, Melissa and Joe Gorga. Alex McCord

flew from Australia to New York to film the Rony portion. Let's go. Jennifer Aiden and Vicki Gumbelson both dress up as Taylor Swift at the final party at Bluestone Manor, which is Dorinda. Gorge. Halloween. Gertie Aberra and Julia

were not seen at Miami as part of the cast, so people think that they're not part of the next season cast. They're replacing them with the Haitian mortician. Exactly. And then finally, this is an ultimate road trip, but original Rony cast has allegedly signed a contract

with E to shoot their own show. I don't understand this headline, because the headline was like rival network. Cast effects from Bravo, yeah, that's what... But E is owned by NBC. And it's all under the NBC Peacock family. It will still be streaming on Peacock if, assuming

they put it on a streamer. I imagine Andy will still be doing reunions. Well, I think this is Bethany Frankel. That's a good question. Also brought this back up, but they were Roney Legacy, which was last season of Ultimate Girls Trip was supposed to be its own show. That was the concept

and then allegedly because of money, they made it a one season. There's clearly some separation with Bravo and, I don't know how that all works. But it's definitely like, it's not like they went to or Netflix. No, yeah. Yeah.

You know, that would have been fascinating if they would like sign with Netflix you know, with the members only club show.

You know, very housewives coded. Most of them are in Florida. I was like, oh, I wonder if Netflix signed them. Because that would spark with. Yeah. Alas, it's just still on PIC.

E. exclamation point. In E. exclamation point. Well. All right. Well, let's get into some traders. Up next, we have Sandra from season two.

also from Survivor lore, two-time winner of Survivor. And a very successful, faithful in the castle during her time. She is with us to help break down all the shenanigans of this most recent episode of Traders, which was a another good one. We also have Jam Jam coming up after Sandra to talk about his

unceremonious exit. That is all coming up next. This episode is sponsored by Better Help, you know, listen, sometimes it can feel like everyone else has got it together. Maybe you're looking for a relationship and all your friends in a relationship or you don't love your job and it feels like everyone around you has their dream job. But listen, like things aren't always as they seem, you know, comparisons with thief with joy. And sometimes you just have to get it off your chest and better help is helping people jump into therapy like never before.

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That's spelled out. O-L-L-L-I-E dot com slash V-I-A-L, and enter code V-I-A-L-L to get 60% off your first box. Sandra, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Super excited to have you. Someone obviously with your pedigree, two-time Survivor winner.

I got that right? You got that right. Make sure we got the accolades. Correct. Also, you were in season two of Traders and had a very successful run on that as well. And you're currently on the Fox show

extracted, right? Correct. Episode two will be on tonight at 8 p.m. on Fox. Very, check that out. So if you're listening to this now, it's on Hulu now. Well, last episode of Traders was another good one and filled with a lot of a little bit of controversy. We now have some of the traders arguing online. Recently released from the castle was Jam Jam and Lisa Renner. Curious, Sandra, how do you overall, what are you appreciating it about this season and the

overall gameplay? And I'd love to get your read on, I guess, really Rob's approach to turn on the other two traders. I think Rob's doing a great job. I wish somehow when he started thinking he was going to get rid of Lisa that he would have talked to Candace about it, I think it would have been easier to get her on board or at least let her know, hey, if I hear her name again come up or if I feel like a lot of people are going to vote for her, I'm going to have to go that way as well. Maybe then they wouldn't have the issues that they're going to have now.

You think Rob should have gone to Candice and give another heads up? I just assumed that Rob didn't do that because he's heard so much about like the housewife's bond and their closeness and I never go against a housewife. I'm just not shocked to assume that he just thought that wasn't even a possibility. But you still would have tried to figure out a way to do that. Absolutely. Because if you think back to after that monumental challenge, they went to go grab food and Candice told Lisa, Johnny's coming for you hard. So she's being talked about again. It started with Monet.

Then it was Ron. Then it was several people have been talking about her. So it's not like her name isn't out there. Colton said her name. So if he would have just said, like, listen, I'm trying to change a couple of things. But if your name keeps coming up and the majority of the people, it sounds like are coming for you, especially after Jam Jam said your name about the kiss when he got murdered, there's nothing I can do. That to me is a heads up.

Like, you already know where my head's at. If they're going to talk about you at the roundtable, I'm writing your name down. It does seem like Rob is, I mean, he's like leading the charge against Lisa, you know? He's like when there's two different stories, you know, it's either I don't know or. Yeah, they definitely swayed the vote. Yeah, it was swaying the vote. Because it was going to go Natalie and then he swayed it. Would you have done anything differently if you were in Lisa's shoes at the roundtable?

It's so hard to convince people that you're not a traitor at any roundtable. like how do you really prove you're not a traitor? All you can do is argue your way out of it. I mean, she could have kept going hard on Natalie because that's where people were or even went back to Colton. But the damage was done once Jam Jam started saying Lisa kissed me and then she said she didn't. Again, that's the same thing Rob said.

The same story, but you know the different outcome, somebody's lying. Jan Jam said she kissed him. She said I didn't kiss them. Mara said she kissed him. You know, Durinda says she didn't kiss him. So, you know, who's telling the truth? Do you almost feel like she should have just been like, yeah, I kissed him. So what?

I kissed everybody. Yeah. And that's easy. You know, it's kind of easy to explain because so much is happening at that black banquet that how do you remember what all you did and didn't do? Yeah. That's what I would say, like, man, I can't even tell you what I had on my plate to eat. Yeah, I've been so on edge.

I've been looking at everybody else. I don't even remember. Yeah, that's true. I feel like her just being like, no, I didn't. I know I didn't. I feel like if the traders were working better together, I feel like Rob should have been the one to wear the jewelry. He could have easily pulled it off.

It is shy. It does feel like the one with the most heat wore the thing. But she got that first. But that's not even what she got in trouble for. Like nobody said anything about the brooch. It was all about the kiss that she. Still, I just think it would have been really easy for Rob if he was wearing that jewelry and it was a ballroom night anyways to like people would have noticed. A lot of people had jewelry on like Colton had pearls on or whatever. I feel like Lisa could have been started. If I were her, I would have started touching other people's jewelry and hope that they would touch mine. You just walk in with the brooch unclasped and then like jiggle where it falls to the ground and hope whoever is there to pick it up and hand it to you. is kind of what she did. She was like, oh, it's poking me. Like, help me. I mean, she got away with it.

She did get away. Well, you don't want the wrong person to touch it because, for instance, if someone's potentially going to get banished, you don't want that person to be the one. You want someone that's really, I mean, she picked Jam Jam, which was kind of messed up. It set Natalie up as in, we know there's a traitor in the turret. You're the last gamer left. So it has to be you. Lisa had to wear the brooch because she already had heat on her. There's no way, Rob. being a man's man was going to wear that. Yeah, with an overalls. That approach on his overalls.

Candace didn't want to get any heat on her because no one has said her name. So it had to be Lisa. So Rob was obviously pretty upset that Candice wrote his name down. I almost was thinking maybe that was pretty smart by Candice to protect herself because it kind of seemed like Rob had fully decided to turn on both of the traders. And since Candace was the one pretty adamantly defending Lisa, he could. could then be like, well, who's the one defending Lisa? I certainly wasn't.

Candice was. But now that Candice wrote Rob's name down, it's a little riskier for Robb, I feel like, to go after Candace because her writing that has named down almost connects the dots of her being angry at Rob as retaliation. Or am I thinking too much? In my opinion, you're thinking too much. Simply because Candice is the kind of person where whatever name she writes down at the roundtable, she sticks to it round table after round table after round table.

So it's not going to be suss for anyone to see her continue to write down Rob's name simply because she did that with Ron. It was like whoever she, whoever's name was on her slate, that's what she's going to continue with. So if she continues chasing Rob regardless, no one I think is going to think twice about it. Like it's not going to be a big deal. He doesn't like it because his name is out there and you never want that. but I don't think it's such a big deal.

Okay. Why do you feel like she didn't just stick with Natalie and be like, you know, yeah, sorry Natalie. I still just like think it's you. Well, she was already mad when he wrote down Lisa's name last week. She threw food at him in the kitchen. She was like, you messed this all up. So she's not happy. They did have a good thing.

But since how do you trust someone that throws your name out there? We saw this last season with Carolyn and. And Danielle, once the damage is done, how do you forgive that? You know they're going to constantly continue until one of us is gone. And it's going to be you or it's going to be me. Yeah. It's just kind of a, it's that initial sign of like, listen, I'll be loyal until I can't, until it doesn't serve me.

Right. And then once your name's thrown out there, you really, it's just a reminder that like, no one's on anyone's side but their own. Yeah. And going back to Lisa, I remember Rob told her in the turret. your name is being said. So he gave her a heads up and then she heard it for herself. Candace heard it for herself.

So it shouldn't be like anything out of this world that he wrote her name down. He should have just gave them a heads up. You probably can't answer this. But is there anything stopping you from kind of like dropping something that Lisa could have like shifted it on to Robb in some way? Like on her way out? Yeah. Or on her way out or even at the round table where she could be like, just look out. Like there's still a snake among you or something like that or just try to to.

be like, you know what, Rob, now that you're coming at me, like, you're actually pretty suspicious yourself. I mean, she could have done a lot of things. I don't know the rules of the traders because they're given additional rules once they're picked that we don't see. I don't even know how many pages it is. You're right. Like, if you take me out and you're a trader and you really stabbed me in the back and I didn't even see it coming, then somehow on my way out, I'm going definitely try to give some kind of clue, but you have to be careful not to go against the rules. And I like and be like, and Rob, you did look just as good in that cloak as you do in these overalls, I must say.

Or I'm a snake, but I'm not the biggest snake. Yes. Yes. But they, to your point, Sandra, they must have some rules. I was thinking about watching it because clearly like, you know, Jam Jam was like, it's Lisa, it's Lisa. And they aired it. So I'm assuming he didn't go against.

any rules, but that's vastly different than a trader who got turned on for Lisa to go to know who the traders are. And you literally would ruin the entire game and the show. So I imagine there's a lot of rules that they have to follow. I remember the minute Fadra gave her back to, Kate gave her back to Fadra at the roundtable and they started going against each other. And she was like, you're going to learn today. I was like, you know, like you get these hints like, how is it that you're expecting and you know for certain she's going to say I'm a traitor you know only a traitor would know that but but I think Rob's name is already out there Candace too because they're saying what if it's a turret full of housewives like they're

they're both gunning for each other we got to see who's victorious I think Rob's going to come out on top there's way too many people trusting him with the exception of Johnny what did you think of the whole dagger thing did you also that was crazy think it was Natalie who lied or Oh yeah, because when I look back on it, I watched it two times. You can tell when the guys are looking at Rob that they're shaking their head. They're not talking, but they're shaking their head and they're moving their eyes, kind of confirming, I don't have it, I don't have it, I don't have it. And then he looks to Natalie and there's Natalie standing there like hoping she doesn't give it away yet.

She's not saying like shaking her head. You know, so in essence, I feel like they gave it to him. Colton gave him a reminder. I don't have it. Mark did the same thing, Stephen, too. Yeah, it's really become a good old boys club. Yeah, I saw an interesting video. I think it was one that actually Rob commented on and him and Candace kind of went back and forth on. But it was this girl kind of breaking down, like we saw on Love Island with Rob that he very much chose to be like a guy's guy.

And he was, you know, had several chances to stick up for the women or do, you know, be on the women's side. but he just like always was there for his bros. And obviously now we're seeing he's got this friendship with Colton. And they're kind of like he's doing it again. Like he could be, you know, in this group with these two women. But he's a guy's guy and he's got to have his bros back. And he commented saying, this is actually ridiculous. Candace said, is it?

He said it's a game, Candace. And she ended it with grow up Robbie Bobby. Gaslighting ages you. I'm curious, Sandra, what you think about this is someone who is a game. right you survivor over the past couple weeks it seems like the audience has gotten a little more toxic even peacock you know PR issued a statement about you know online bowling and things like that but are you just kind of used to fans watching it and forgetting it's a game and and taking things personally but like it does seem a little i can't help but wonder of like candace being a housewife she's just like this is how

we roll and this is how we engage each other online and we talk our shit and it's It's a reality TV show, but like we keep the momentum going. And Rob's just like, I thought I'm playing a literal game. And why is Candace coming at me online in the way that she is? I can see why there could be a lot of confusion. But I'm curious from your standpoint, Sandra, someone who is a legit gamer, who's been involved in shows like these where you have to quote unquote stab someone in the back, how do you expect or how do you think audiences should respond?

And how does someone like you deal with an audience? reaction that feels a little intense. Well, a lot of times with the audience, like they're seeing it from home. We were there. Like, let's say, for instance, in the castle, I'm not going to hear every conversation and see everything that happened. That's why you realize so much on other people to let you know what they heard and what they said.

And then the audience, for example, with me, I said in one of the episodes, like, it doesn't matter. A lot of the faithfuls will have to go home before we even probably catch a traitor. But then the fans are home and saying, like, no, you're not. your job there simply to find the traitor. Well, I'm trying to survive this game as well and get to the end. But when it comes to the fans, they're really passionate. And also, yes, there was a lot of things said by Peacock about be careful and bullying this,

that and a third. But they have to remember, too, that Colton for the first two episodes or three episodes is sitting there saying whatever he wants to say. And there's no repercussions. For example, he wrote, I can press people and see how uncomfortable they get. And if I miss my shot, I'll just shoot again. Okay, so why can he just say and do whatever he wants? But the minute someone says something to him, now it's a whole big Twitter fight.

It's a good point. It's a great point. Was it after the roundtable? I forget. It's like, he's like, I got a new name in my mouth. It's Stephen. And there's no why behind it. It's just vibes with Colton.

It's just, you know, it's. And yeah. It was, but Stephen did something. It was the way, the way Stephen at the, um, black banquet told Johnny to pick a car. and then Christian's name like forcing her like they're looking for any kind of suspicious activity. Yeah, it was also the turkey and the fact that Lisa put all of her gold rocks into his basket. And the problem is like Colton kind of got Lisa right. So now he's operating with his newfound confidence. Yeah. That's what he needed. And forgetting all the other misses. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it would have been great if someone other than Lisa did it, but she did it and she got caught. But for us, it would have been crazy if someone else had actually did it, but they still blamed Lisa. And then she.

She got busted, you know, so you win some, you lose some. But that's the reason they're watching Stephen because although he's oblivious to a lot of things, for instance, when Ron was at the library and Stephen says, well, what are you thinking? And Ron says in front of Dorinda, well, I got two names and he says who and he's like, you're talking to one. So Stephen, you know, those things open your eyes. Am I talking to a traitor? You don't know.

There's so much chaos in that house, in that castle. You don't know what's up and what's down. Or like Natalie saying, you know, which this is the second time this has happened, like, yeah, we killed them, we murdered them, we banished it, you know, like. It happens every season. Pepperman did it on ours. Yeah, yeah. I wasn't even there to hear it, but when everyone jumped on the bagwagon, it was like herd mentality. I don't know if it was done last season.

I can't remember, but we know Portia did it, episode one. Shocked that Porsche had such an early. You don't remember the things you're saying when you're in the hot seat and you're having to explain for. instance with Natalie. She went back. She went to sleep. She tossed and turned all night because she knew she went hard for the antidote and didn't even need it. So now you're like, oh, snap, now I got to go back to breakfast and I got to fix things. And then you still hear people two or three plates down talking about you. Yeah. He heard Mark talking about her mark and was it Johnny? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I wrote it somewhere. They were.

we're talking about her and she's listening and you can tell in Natalie's face and her eyes are tearing up like, girl, you got to fix this quick. I think Rob's going to go the distance. I don't know. He seems like he has such a strong coalition of these guys and most of the people in his coalition. Other than Natalie and Colton are pretty outspoken. But like Mark and Stephen pretty quiet. They seem, Rob's very popular. He's got more on. And it's just like he's doing he's doing such a good job of like, it's weird. He's giving like the Peter Weber on, Peter was on your season, Sandra.

Peter had that's very aggressive, faithful strategy where he was just, I am hunting for traitors. I am faithful. And it was like, it was hard not to believe that he was a traitor. And it worked in my favor, especially them shutting the door and saying,

well, can you give us a minute? Like, why do we have to give five people a minute to chat about what, traitor? Yeah. Traitor behavior. If they turn again,

Rob, I'm curious, he'll have to really screw up. And he's playing a smart game. Oh, no, he's, he's real quiet. He watches his words. I don't think they're going to get him. I think he's going to go to the end. And I haven't seen spoilers or anything like that. There's a handful of faithfuls he can go to the end with and they will think that he's been playing a faithful game the whole way through. Do you think it's the face or like the overalls? Because I'm like at the same time, Durinda called out Mora this last roundtable because she doesn't speak up until somebody is like accused. And then she's like, and then you back them up. But it's like, Rob does the exact same thing.

Rob doesn't accuse anybody from the front. And then ends up doing the last soliloquy and no one's like. I think it's a con. I mean, listen, he's a great looking guy. He's very quiet and he has no problem being quiet. And he seems to be comfortable in that state. And we're learning more and more that he's an intelligent, thoughtful guy. He's intelligent enough to know that people often don't see him as that.

And he's leaning into that and playing to his advantage. It also seems like he. takes time for like each person and like gives them like one on one attention so that they feel like, oh, they have a friendship and they're connected with them. Like I don't remember who was telling us, but that he was, he sat down and played chess with a lot of people a lot of the time, him like getting to know Ron, him and Colton. You know, I feel like he's just really. If you're someone who when you walk into a room doesn't work the room and you're kind of quiet and especially Rob, good looking guy, you people notice Rob when he walks into a room. And so they're going to notice a guy like Rob not talking to them. But when that individual on a one-on-one basis, as Natalie says, makes him feel seen, listens to them. They're like, oh, but he likes me. And I feel like with Rob that hits home a little bit more. And I think he's very good at playing that game.

And the dagger move was good too. Yeah. Yeah, he's got that double dagger and he's got three weeks to use it. And so when he's in a pickle, I don't see how he doesn't go the distance. Oh, no, he's got it. He's got it in the pocket. He does. Yeah, I actually agree with you, though, Nick.

I think that Candice made a brilliant move by putting Rob's name down. And I think that he actually has to, it forces him to stick by her. Because if then she goes home, they're going to think back to that rogue vote and be like, Rob. Maybe she was giving us a sign. I mean, I'm curious, because I'm thinking if I'm Rob right now, Sandra, I'm immediately going after Candace. It's just like, I'm going to double down and be like, you know, why was. Candice defending Lisa, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Let's say that happens.

And they vote Candace out. And she's like, I'm a traitor. To Leah's point, Sandra, does that, like, could that potentially put a target on Rob's back in a way he doesn't have a target now? Yes, especially if she keeps writing down his name. But also, he can simply just say, like, the housewife stick together. I would go to Kansas and I would say, listen, water under the bridge, let's move forward. You knew her name was out there.

You were trying to save her. There was no saving her. They were out for blood. Somebody had to go. Somebody had to be given up. She was already out there. But Candace can say, well, you know, housewives never write each other's names out, whatever. That's that philosophy.

Now they're going to have to work together because I would say, listen, I won't say your name no more. You won't say mine. And let's, you know, let's win this thing together. But if she keeps on about it, then I would go after her. And then I'd take out Dorinda, too. I'd murder Dorenda. I'd have him. If I was robbed, I would push to murder Dorenda so that now Candace doesn't really have someone else.

Like she, you know, she's there with the housewives. I would take Dorenda from her. But then that goes against his turret full of housewives thing that he's trying to plant. No, because that can still, I mean, we still have her. Then we'd have to pick off between Natalie and Candice. It's easy to say, like, you know, it's got to be Natalie because all. the other gamers are gone and they were all faithful and or maybe it's candace and it was a turret full of housewives which he already said a turret full of housewives well sandra this has

been a lot of fun breaking this all down with you is it's great to get your insight uh on stuff like this um with someone with especially with your pedigree remind the audience of where they can follow you enjoy everything you're doing Sandra well i'm on instagram sassy sdd that's pretty much where I'm at. Like, nobody's really on Facebook anymore, right? I'm not on Twitter. If you guys are following me on Twitter, that's the wrong account because I'm not on Twitter. But no, I think Instagram is everything. All right, Sandra. Well, appreciate you taking the time and helping us break this all down. Please come back soon. You guys take care. Thank you, Sandra. I was so heated when I watched that last episode. I called Leah immediately and I was like,

I, Rob's going down. I'm sorry. I hope people see the real Candace, the Candace from Potomac. She's going to come sniper with her words. Yeah, she might. I can settle for Rob not winning. Basically, you're saying you don't realize. I don't think he knows. Rob doesn't realize what he just ignited. No, I don't think he realizes that Candace is like really smooth. And like she's, even the vote that like keeps bringing up. Like that within itself, like she knows what she's doing. I think it was insurance. I think she knows exactly what she's doing. I think that Rob is in a tough

spot now because if he does turn against her, people are going to be like she dropped us a hint. Well, I mean, Sandra, maybe maybe he follows Sanders advice, which is to not turn against and just say, yo, like, we had to. Right. Also, this turret full of housewives thing isn't even like, because Donna Kelsey was a traitor. So for all they know, she wasn't the secret traitor. But nobody knows that she was a secret traitor other than wrong. Yeah, that's true. That's true.

Yeah. I think I just take it too personal. I'm like the MJ from seasons ago or I'm like, you come for anybody. I'm automatically not your routine. I was like, girl, if we're getting voted off of like not watching our words, the amount of times I'd be like, we murdered somebody. Oh, fuck. Here I go. Yeah.

I'm off the show. Yeah. I like Rob being messy. I like Rob too, but not how... He's play a smart game. He is. You can't really... Do I find it really annoying that he's besties with Colton? Which means Colton's going to stick around.

Yes. Unless, but maybe Candice pulls one, gets Colton off, pisses Rob off. And then that's what makes them clash. I mean, clearly they're not on good terms today. No. Well, that's an interesting thought. You know, if you're Candice, yeah, it's almost like if Robbara. Bob goes to Candace and says, hey, I had to,

but I'm still united with you. I mean, listen, if my name gets thrown out there, you're going to have to do what you have to do, but let's stop that from happening. If I'm Candace, I'm like, sure, but I'm like, we're voting out your boy. We're voting out your boy. Yeah, give me one.

Prove your loyalty. Yeah, prove your loyalty, vote out your boy, because right now you're building a coalition with your friends, and you're leaving me on an island. So if it's like... Action speak louder than words. right now and she has no reason to trust you. The person I want to hear from the most right now is Jam Jam.

Bring him on. Let's bring on. Let's do a clap with Nick. Jam Jam, clap on three with me. Please, ready. One, two, three, clap. Just one. Perfect.

Jam, Jam, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you so much for having me. Oh, my God. Can I believe this is finally happening? Well, us too. We're very excited to have you. First of all, very sad to see you go. You were so just delightful to watch and fun and enjoyable.

And to see you just, your chair ripped from that table. It was so traumatic. Yeah. I wasn't going to go any other way. Even if I was murdering the side of the confessional, I was going to rip that door and, like, walk into the halls on screen. How did you feel watching it back, knowing that you were right about Lisa,

but wrong about what it actually was that got you killed in the first place? Well, it made me feel stupid, A little bit, obviously. Why? I mean, at the end of the day, you got it right. But I did get it right. It's about the whole idea of understanding how people change and shift. And I thought and I knew and I perceived that Lisa's interaction with me had changed.

So as soon as I found out, it was me. And I was like, it had to be heard because he's the only person that I was, like, worried about something happened. That makes a lot of sense because she clearly did target you. and then she has to think about, all right, how do I kill this guy? And she has to come up with her story. And she talked, you know, like her, something was wrong with her pendant. So while you maybe got that wrong, you clearly must have felt that she was like very focused on you for a brief period of time in a way that someone else wasn't. Exactly.

I mean, and they show some of that, right? They show some of me saying you have a sparking in your eye that it's different. If you know anything about my survivor journey at the end, people underestimate me. made me the whole time. And the one thing I knew always was when they were lying to me, right? Because I have this thing that I know if people are like, if I know them enough, I know if they're changing. So I describe it on Survivor as you lose the sparkle in the eye when you're talking to me. But in her case, I never seen how. So if I knew about Lisa from Nuss with the Stars and all her, like, you know, career, the way she interacted with me then seemed like more than normal. Now afterwards, it's like,

it was like she was acting to me. It was what was happening in her eyes. She was looking at me in a way that was this character of Lisa fucking Rina instead of the Lisa Rina that I have get to know all these weeks and love. I saw a screen grab and maybe it's fake news, but to me it looked like you are the one who kissed Lisa on the cheek. I did. I know. Play this flip again of me staying and I said she kissed me. But I what, hey, no, it's just a little. It's whatever.

I'm like that, you know. I mean, this has getting me into troubles in other places of my life. But there's a minute. I feel like so, I just justify it. So here's the thing. Here's the thing. I understood that the banquet was supposed to be a celebration of life.

That's how I was described the banker was to be. And me, paranoid, I asked questions. And it was like, no, don't worry, blah, blah. I mean, I wasn't specific about the questions, but I should have known better. something was going to go down there, right? So when I saw everybody dressed up, because we haven't seen each other in the whole day,

you know, we're walking into the banquet hall and blah, blah, blah. And I was honestly really excited to see her because we, we, you know, we ride together in the cars. We always, like, try to have fun. She was like my Caroline in the castle. Because people there were like, I felt like a lot of them were not, like, authentic with me, but I felt like she was. So when I saw her, it was my natural, like,

oh my God, I can believe I get to see your amazing dress, bring it, give me a kiss, you know, it's who I am. I connected with the kiss when Alan repeats the phrase because he says it twice. He said it, then he gives the potions and then he said it again for like a second take. And that's when I realized Alan said, the kiss of the curse repeats itself. That phrase was the one that freaked me out. But I already had already happened. They took the potions, everybody has screamed. That's why I'm so quiet about it. Because at that point, everything was done. And I look at Mark and I say, she kissed me. Lisa kiss me. Why you mean she kiss you?

I was like, dude, it's a different kind of kiss. It was not the normal kiss. Like, she always gave me in the mornings. But at that point, nobody believed me. So whatever. So what if she was like, oh, my God, Jam Jam kissed me? Has she said that? I mean, she had a chance and she didn't, right?

Do you, what you just explained might have answered that question. But, you know, obviously Nelly was one of the people who was adamant that she had to take a potion. and even if you wanted to take a potion, you were like, well, I'm not going to speak up. But, like, was there any point while Natalie and anyone else was fighting for that potion? Was there a part of you that was like, I should speak up here?

I think I might be the one getting killed? Or was that only after Alan mentioned the kiss? In terms of me, only after Alan said the kiss. But I always was, Jamdan goes for the shield. Like, even the account of Instagram and social media and everything, Peacock and Traders, he's like, I always want the shield. I'm shield hungry.

Why do I have to go for the shield? always take more out, do everything like extra to get a shield. Because I always thought I was in danger. But by that point in the game, I knew that the half of the faithfuls that were in power, call it Johnny, Christian, Eric, Mark, and everybody that said in that on Tara, they didn't trust me. They were not working with me. And this is a numbers game.

There's a lot of this game that they don't show regarding numbers because they want to make the story about what happens on the roundtable. But for the first time, they finally show a little bit of threat. of this other group, which is funny because my half of the castle, we were doing this since day one. We were like, we don't need 20 people voting together. We just need nine or eight, and then everybody else is going to gravitate to the numbers. And we did have control a little bit for at the beginning, but then everybody in my group started getting murdered. So by that point, I wanted to get some trust of them. So I was like, I need to change my thing. I need to stop being so, you know,

aggressive about this. And I'm going to be a team player. I'm going to decide. I'm going to help them. I'm going to be, you know, everybody's looking at what I'm saying. So I'm trying to, I'm going to say something that is going to bring me some love back to me. Because that's what I'm used to, right? I like people loving me and people liking me. So I wasn't used to people just like giving me the cold shoulder about who I was in the castle.

And that's why they show when I said to Johnny, grab it and give it to Kristen. Because at this point, these guys were standing there for like 10 minutes and nobody was moving. And in my head, all I was thinking is like, this is basically like an idol on survivors. Like if I just stand up and run and get it, who's going to stop me? And I go like, somebody needs to go get it. Why are they waiting so much? And because I knew what needed to be done.

That's why I told to Johnny give it to Kristen. Because Kristen was very outspoken. I needed Kristen to like me. I felt like Kristen was like the leader of the pack. And she was the one that told me what point, I don't think you're a traitor, but I just don't trust you. And it hurt me. It hurt me. And I was like, I need this girl to love me back.

And that's why I didn't, I was not that person. If you look back at it, I looked so stupid. I looked so quiet. I wasn't even having fun. I was like, whatever. These people hate me. Whatever. They think I'm an asshole.

Whatever. They think I'm a traitor. But the traitors are not going to kill me because they think I'm a traitor. And the faithfuls are not going to kill me because they just want me because they want to banish me later. Whatever. So at that point, I was like, what can I do? And that's why it wasn't the person that I was at the beginning. Well, who did you think was the best dressed at the banquet, besides yourself, of course.

Oh, my God, Mara. Hello. Mora with her, like, gold chest and plate and hat. I remember it's funny because I remember at some point she was getting dressed and I was like behind her. Because I thought she was a traitor. Jam, Jam. If you were close with Lisa and you kind of felt like all the faithfuls were against you, made you want to have their back at the end and go out saying that, giving them a tip?

Oh, because I'm very competitive. I'm dead. Fuck everyone. So, it was my honest reaction. And if you see, I started saying it very, like, subtle. And then they were questioning me. At this point, they're dragging me out, these two-inchmen, dragging me out, and kicking me out, like, being, like, super loud.

And these people are still like, what do you say? Are you sure? Why do you mean a kiss? I was like, why would I be saying something different? I was like, just believe me. It was a kiss. It was a kiss. I mean, of course, it wasn't a kiss.

But it was her. And I was just giving my last Ura. And it's so, I loved it. I loved it. Whatever. How surprised were you to find out that Candace and Rob were the other two traitors? So I found out that the three of them, right, were at the same time.

I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. I could not believe it. At that point, I didn't have a lot of suspicion on Lisa. And I did tell her the night before the banquet, maybe in my, like, having fun kind of thing. You know, Lisa describes she was spanking Rob at some point. Like, I was, like, the one with her giving her the stick to spank Rob, telling the other people they were naughty for voting for her.

And when we end up laughing, I say, like, I just can't believe they did that. Because it's not like I don't think you're a traitor, but I don't think you're hide up there. How stupid. Knowing that Rob was a traitor, I mean, Can you just, like, you mentioned that they're kind of showing a little of that strategy. And it seems like behind the scenes these past couple episodes, Colton, Rob, Stephen, Mark, and some of these other people have, have this little boys club. Is that as strong, is it appears, as intense as it appears?

Or do you feel like they could be turning on each other sooner than later? I think it was real. It was definitely a boys club. And I remember walking into a conversation in the library with Kristen and Mark. And Kristen asked Mars, when this thing started to happen? And obviously I didn't know what she was talking about. I was like, what do you mean? I was like, no, no, this man doing leading the thing.

And I was like, well, I think it happened when, you know, I was. And she goes like, not you. I don't think it's you. It's not about you. But yeah, it was a real thing in the castle. I just felt that I was close to them, you know, because Natalie was also part of it. It's just that they don't never say Natalie in that group. But me being so close to Natalie and the boys.

Like my two people that I chose the demos were Natalie and Rob. When I found out it was Rob, I was like, oh, my God, this asshole, he better wins. Fuck the faithfuls. They're a fucking mess. Rob needs to win, and that's it. What do you think makes Rob so good? He's beauty. He's so handsome.

That helps. No, he's really chill. I don't know about the Love Island how he was. Apparently he was like a villain on Love Island. I didn't know that. He really connects with people in a very quiet. It's reserved weight. You know that they describe Ron and Robb's relationship.

I think he had that with a lot of people. He had that with me too. He just made sure to like connect with people. And they always showing him playing chess. And now that I go back, the night that I go murder, he wanted to play chess with me. I feel like it was one of his multiple tools to connect with people. Because it's a very intimate setting and he would do that all the time. Have you spoken to Michael Rappaport?

He'd the end me. Oh. He's in this TV phone. something like that. And I liked the comment, but it was so late. I think I was hanging out. And the next morning I woke up.

And I was reviewing my messages and I realized it was him. And I was like, well, I didn't realize this was you. I wish you the best and your family. And then he said the same. And that's it. There you go. Jam, Jam,

I appreciate you taking the time. It was such a pleasure watching you. So much fun. You were loved here. And we hope to see more of you on TV. And when you're ever in L.A., please stop and say hi and come in the studio. Yes. Thank you so much. It was a blast talking. Jamtime, where can people follow you, support you, all that fun stuff?

Well, you can always follow me on Instagram at Jamil PR. That's YAMI-L-P-R or my website, jam-jamp-jamp-R. Okay. And cameo. Oh, my God. Ooh, yes. That's a birthday wish I want. Oh, my God. I can compete with a lot of people, but I cannot compete against Carolyn Wigger.

She does like 15-minute cameos. Good for her. Wow. That's a way too much. Does she? God bless her. Jam, Jan, thanks again, man.

We appreciate you. Bye. Lots of love. Lots of love. He's so fun. He's so fun. He won Survivor too. Yeah, he was best friends with Carolyn,

who was on Traders last season, and they were such a delight to watch. They had the best, they still have a really beautiful friendship, but they were so fun to watch on Survivor, and then he won. All right, well, we have switching to Potomac. A well-billow.

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First of all, I just want to say I'm become quickly a Karen Hugar fan. Yeah. Just a dynamic TV personality. Yeah. She also looked so good coming out of prison. You said this on plus. Yeah. Yeah, but Andy sat down with her and had the, you know, conversation we've all been curious of him having

with her, which was mostly centered around. obviously the arrest and what she thought about it, but certainly touched on whether she thinks she deserves another chance on reality TV. And it certainly brings up an interesting conversation around, you know, with, we've talked about traitors, we've talked about some of the discourse going on by some of the cast, and, you know, certainly we believe that people deserve second chances in life. But again, the question is, is like, where do you draw that long, you know?

But it's also reality TV that is casting willing participants. And quite frankly, a lot of people aren't willing to expose their lives on TV in the way that many of these housewives do. It's very interesting. It was interesting also to hear her talk about, like, living in prison and just the shock of being there and her schedule and the fact that she said that she was on her period so that she could get pads to line the seat of the toilet. Karen has a mentor, too, just to the younger girls. I feel like that was a beautiful, empowering side of the perspective for her. I also appreciated Andy's style of interviewing in the sense that, like, it's a tough situation that she's talking about.

She obviously just came out of prison. I feel like he handled it very well, like delicately. But at the same time, it was like, okay, like you're being like, I don't have an issue with alcohol and him being like, well, we've had four run-ins. Like, you know what I mean? Like being very like, we can't say one thing without the other, which was kind of what I was worried about, where I was like, is it going to be kind of like a puff piece? She seemed to own it.

She didn't. What was the thing? She considers herself. I don't know. This isn't exactly how she said it, so it's not verbatim. But she's just like someone who will always be in recovery, whether that's for like alcohol or prescription. Which honestly, I kind of appreciate that answer. We talk about this all.

I mean, like the way words have been buzzed up, so to speak, or lost their meaning or just how labels, you know, get used against us and weaponize against us. You know, it almost sounds like a cliche, but I totally get it, though, you know. She just has to find a way to take that ownership that doesn't maybe feel so heavy and shameful the way, you know, that word has maybe been used against people. And it makes sense. I appreciate it because it's realistic. You know what I mean? Like she's not sitting here being like, oh, I'm a changed woman. Like, oh, like I would never make another mistake again.

And I think that that's what the accountability is for her being like, hey, like, I've made mistakes. But I'm not going to sit here and say that I'm a perfect person or I'm a healed person, but I'm always in progression to getting there. You know, which we all are. Certainly seems like she was rested up for her appearance back on TV because the preview for the reunion was serving a lot of. Karen versus Wendy, let's fucking go. She said the Grand Dame is back. This is my stage. That is the Grand Dom.

Have y'all been staying in line? Because I've got things to say to you and I cannot wait. And she looked phenomenal. Oh, it was also interesting watching Andy show her the clips from the previous reunion too. I mean, like, what do you think of like? like what Ashley said or what she said and her being like yeah what Ashley said that she can rest that one.

Yeah, that wasn't true. There was a clip of them showing Wendy saying something the effect of and I'm paraphrasing but like when you're in the valley you don't know what you're capable of which I took as when times are bad. Or desperate.

Or desperate. Which kind of sounds like in confession which I believe is why the ground dom is like shut your mouth. Yeah. you talk too much and that's your problem. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Because I think even Karen, Giselle tried to get her to say a couple of things when she was in, when she was originally released from being arrested on the last season, and she was like, I'm not saying anything. Like, you keep trying to, like, get me to talk to you about things. That's for my lawyer.

Yeah. I won't address anything. Well, what's the, you know, anything could be used against you in the court of law. And most people aren't miced up with cameras recording. I was going to say, especially in housewives. Yeah. And the, you know, the court of law,

is no stranger to Bravo footage. Plus, it's going to say, Teresa Jude Dice, Erica, Jane. I'm re-watching Erica's first season. Well, not only it's a convention, there's a motive there. The motive is, times red. You know, I needed it.

I was desperate. Right. It's like, oh. You were in the valley. People do desperate things in desperate time. Is next episode of Potomac, reunion part one? Wow.

Okay. Let's get it. I have a feeling this reunion is going to go down in history. Let's get it. We also had an episode of the rural housewives of Beverly Hills. And we have a rapid recap, if you missed it.

Erica and Rachel Zoh are not fucking with Amanda because she reminds them of an airline attendant from the 60s. Kyle Richards wears a pair of jorts with a blazer, which could mean nothing. But she also doesn't think Doreet meant to disrespect Amanda's son by getting mad at her for shit talking. And then she threw astray by comparing Amanda to Crystal, reference that is uncalled for and on sportsmanlike conduct on the play. Justice for Crystal. Bose invites her childhood friend Summer to hang out and talk about the divorce, Doreet and Kyle, but then Mo shows up, right as Doreet asked Kyle if there's a chance they would ever get back together. This is the diva that loves a chaotic cameo. Also, apparently Amanda was

in a cult, question mark, question mark, which could explain a lot, actually. Needless to say, the girls are intrigued. Also, Rachel Zoe filed for divorce from her husband and does not want spousal support. Kyle gets emotional seeing the old house for the first time because she misses her old life. In dinner for Erica and Doree's birthday, Amanda said she was verbally accosted by Dorete. How will she react to that? We'll find out next week. I love how she said Acosta and was like, wait, wait, let me Google and make sure that that is the word. Did you...

Kyle Richards comparing Amanda to Crystal. What was that straight? Yeah, I was like, wait a minute. Not too much of my girl now. The specific reference is that when Crystal was on the show, because she has such a good, like, vernacular and vocabulary and she knows definition.

She would cite words with definitions. So Crystal reposted it, too, being like, apparently college isn't for everybody. Yeah. I love her. Yeah. Honestly, good for Crystal, too. She hasn't been on the show for years, and these women love to bring her up every season.

She's always on their minds. She had, like, corrected some vocabulary. That would have been really fun, too. Rachel is, though, not wanting her spousal support is giving. I make so much more money than him. I don't want to pay spousal support. Whatever else I don't have to communicate with this person or, please. But imagine her being like, oh, I sure I'll meet your friends.

And then it's like, this is when you hear Kyle's story and then Doreat's story. And then Mauricio shows up. What a dramatic. dinner for the summer. I definitely felt for Kyle when she was taking the two of Amanda's house and then Maricio's just kind of like, why are you emotional? No, first of all, I have an issue immediately with the way that they did the tour, right? And then she's like, Amanda's like, I'm going to go put the babies to bed. Which is also kind of weird. I know we're filming a show and you guys are going to do a scene, but just sit here and wait for me to be done. Like, okay, I guess. How long is

your bed to be sure? And then her husband is like, oh, do you want some? some water. Like, do you want ice in it or whatever? And Mauricio, instead of going to sit with Kyle to be like, oh my gosh, like a moment of private time while he's getting the drink, Amanda's upstairs to be like, how crazy is this to be in this house? He walks with the husband into the pantry to get the water. He also just walked in the house, though. So isn't that just like don't immediately like leave the, I don't know. I don't know.

Justin really, really gagged me. I did call Mary because I was watching the scene. And in this scene, she's like, yeah, we raised like beautiful daughter. in this house and then he goes and now you're marrying one and I called Mary and I was like oh my god they just literally admitted so news flash I've learned that you can say you're marrying someone it doesn't mean like you actually are marrying the girl it means you're marrying one of your girls like marrying off one of your daughters yes anyway so we're walking we're walking to go get drinks and I get a I get a mixed a 911 call from Justin and a Mary I'm gagged call me right now and I was like what is going

on. And then I call him and goes, did you watch Beverly Hills? And I was like, yeah. And I was like, what the hell are you talking about? I misunderstood. I was like, and also not engaged. But she did wear jorts. When Rachel rolled her eyes about the, uh, the macha order, and then said she was, she gives, uh, what, 1960s, Pan Am airline attended, I was like, tell me you don't fuck with somebody in the nicest way. Every time they flash back to that car ride where she's on the phone in the middle seat. I'm cringing. It's so, I'm like, this is my hell.

Mm-hmm. Because nobody else can talk in the car. And I was, and she's like, you know, like, I don't know if the person was on speaker phone, but she's talking like this as if the person is on speakerphone. That's crazy. Was she not sending a voice memo? That's how I understood it. A 30-minute voice memo?

They said she was on the phone for 30 minutes. It sounded, it looked like she was talking as it. Maybe she talks to her friends. Maybe she was switching from to the ear and to talking here. Also, when you think about the fact that it was, you know, there's a GoPro in the car. Mm-hmm. They're miced.

Mm-hmm. So they're doing a scene. And you're sitting next to Rachel Zoe and Erica Jane, who also are very busy business women. But like I don't doubt that Amanda's very good at business, right? And she's clearly doing well and has money. But any legitimate conversation that is important to your business, you don't have on camera.

Sitting bitch to the back seat. Yeah. Sitting in the back seat on camera. You say, hey, guys, I'll call you when I get a. out of the car when I'm alone in my hotel room. Yeah, you don't even say it on speaker. Some people just say, hey, can't talk right now. We'll call you in 20.

Yeah. We could hit a custom message. When she was like, I paid for that house, that was much. And especially for Rachel, so who's also like in the middle of getting divorced and she's just like, why was that necessary? Like, you know what I mean? Like, it was just like, it's a hit to your husband. I haven't even met your husband yet.

And it's just like, I don't know. Like, it just felt weird. Like, why throw him under the bus for no reason? Not her telling Kyle that her jean shorts are really in right now I was like, why would you say that to someone? Like, oh wow, you're longer shorts.

They're really in right now. It's like, okay. It's giving, oh, you have a ghostwriter? I wrote my own book. She's just a walking soundbite of like, oh. I mean, I am enjoying her. I love Amanda too. I love her too.

I did see a tweet. We are, but they are not. I did see a tweet that said Amanda's like the first AI housewife. which I thought was it made me laugh but I also felt awl. Justin, did you notice that Rachel Zoe gives compliments like you do? What? When she said it's giving 1960s airline attendant.

Rachel Zoh and I just really understand aesthetics and like comparisons. Justin gave me a compliment one day when I came to work and he was like, you're giving like Oregon sorority girl in winter. And I was just like, is that a compliment? You guys obviously don't come from. the Leslie Knope School of Compliments. Do you know how Leslie will compliment Anne in Parks and Rec? That's how I compliment my girls.

You know, I'm like, you were a beautiful sunflower that fell up top this earth. Mary told me once I was giving Christian Autumn. Christian Girl Autumn, because you were eating in a fall fit. Wait, did you guys notice that in the after show? So I don't know if they've done this before, but they did pickups. And they've shot now two versions of Everyth Hill's After Show, I think, just to get more coverage or whatnot. but Amanda's not present in the pickups. Do you think this is a one and done season for her?

Well, I think, I mean, we don't know. Obviously, it could be so many different reasons. Maybe she wasn't available or what. But yeah, I mean, she's been getting a lot of hate specifically in regards to her career right now online. So maybe it's attached to that. I know she did an interview where she also said she was part of a cult. Yeah, the cold. So there's a lot to her we don't know on.

And one thing I will give her credit on to you is that she did do an interview talking about the cult thing, her headshot, which I guess was from a DUI like 10 years ago. but she was very much like, I owned that. She said that she wrote the original, the article about her being in a cult was from her blog that she started. And it's the first post on her blog. So she's kind of like,

these women are acting like they're finding out secrets about me, but like I posted that. Like I'm the one who's put that out there. So that's one thing I will give her credit on us that she's claiming that there's no skeletons in her closet. Also, I mean, sometimes people get caught up in the wrong group and leave. And also was it her saying like, I'm in a cult like a...

She was part of a religious... A religion that she compares to a lot of cult, like, practices. That's kind of my point where is this like, is she calling it a cult after like kind of being awoken to the what it was? It's retrospective from her experience is what she's saying. But I can see where the eyebrow raises to like independent coaching with no credentials from like being an occult. Because it's kind of like you come up with this rhetoric or like steps to take.

So it's like I can see whether it's eyebrow raises. And then I think back to the lunch with Doreet, Bose is like what are some like steps or advice you can give Doreet on like what she should do right now with her finances with P.K. And she's like just like manifest like being powerful. I agree with some of her practices though. Yeah. In a long term situation.

Absolutely. I think what Bose was asking for Dorete was like high some concrete steps. You know. So like he could be taking in order to call. Does she? Just cross your fingers? Is that a person? How long is it going to, you know, like something that comes with answers, yeah. Yeah.

Well, she is, I'm still enjoying Amanda. Although, you know, when you rubbo is the wrong way, it raises eyebrows. Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's why I was like, I'm excited to see where the season goes because we're only like five, six episodes in. So I'm just like, she's got a long way to go with the character. Can we haven't even hit the mugshot yet? Yeah.

So. And that was like a big part of the trailer. Well, that will do it for today's episode. Thank you to all our guests, including Brent, Sandra, and Jam Jam. We appreciate them all taking the time and appreciate you all listening. Do not forget to check out Val Fowles Plus for more amazing content. And again, if you want to see the Vowals live on May 6th with the cast of next season's Temptation Island, be sure to get tickets now. They won't last long.

We will see you back on Thursday. Bye-bye.