The Viall Files - Whitney Rose’s “The Podcast”

Episode Date: September 25, 2024

Welcome back to The Viall Files! Today, The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City’s Whitney Rose joins us to talk about last season’s fallout. Who is she friends with? Who’s gonna be the new villain? Where does she go from here? With the season 5 premiere, we’ve seen the immediate fallout of our episode on the show. Who was in the right? Is this simply Whitney’s perspective on healing? And is Lisa Barlow self absorbed? You decide.  “Lisa’s always been the villain!” ALSO… Buy our exclusive “The Podcast” merch: https://viallfiles.myshopify.com  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com   If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @whitneywildrose @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell 

All right. Everyone ready? Ready? You ready? Let's cheers first. Cheers. There we go. Cheers.

Thanks for coming. Cheers to my coffee. Yay. Cheers. There you go. Cheers. Thanks for coming. Cheers to my coffee Yay Whitney yes, Nick welcome. Thank you for having me. Thank you for coming very very excited to have you our first Salt Lake City housewife your first Salt Lake City housewife. Yeah, well, I'm glad to be. We are as well. I have to say, you probably don't know this, but I was a fan of yours back in the day. Was?

Well, still am. Buster. While you were on reality TV. I will become a fan again after I have a bone to pick with you later. Oh. I'm just kidding. That's usually how it goes with me.

Yeah, it's cyclical. You were a fan Yeah, I was just all I should say is like I'm having a fangirl moment too. Like I I watched the Bachelor Cheers to another being fans of each other Are you sad you can't drink babe, even though you're not a big drinker. Um This I will say I've only ever craved alcohol since being pregnant, so. I don't know what that says about me, but. We always start these interviews off with a very heavy-handed question,

which is how is your heart? How is my heart? Yeah, like how you, I mean, obviously you've been through so much recently. I don't know, how long ago did you film The Reunion? We filmed at the end of November. So it's been a while. Yeah, it was right after BravoCon.

Okay, wow. Yeah, they canceled our Salt Lake City panel at BravoCon. Yeah, we heard that. That's right, I heard that. Yeah, because it was so close to reunion and I'm glad we did because it would have been. Chaotic. I couldn't imagine having monocon

between monocon and Lisa just screaming at each other. Yeah, so my heart, actually my heart was a little heavy for a minute, but now I'm feeling very open and free. Open and free. Yeah. Why open and free? You know, I've just realized that

everything we've been through, everything I've been through personally, when my heart feels heavy, it just means I need a ground and go back inward. And with the chaos of housewives, Monica, reunion, all of it, I realized I'm still just wit. I'm still a human being. And at the end of the day, all these crazy ladies in my life really don't affect me.

Who are you closest with? I'm closest with Angie Katsanidis right now. Right, interesting how you say that right now. Currently in this moment. Do you say right now because it's kind of always a revolving door based off of whatever drama is happening? It's because it's Salt Lake City. The dynamic shift with the windstorms that come in,

like it is, you never know. Yeah, it's mostly drama, but she's proven to me that I can trust her. You know, you come on these Housewife shows, at least I did, in the beginning as an OG, I thought, oh, these women are really my friends. Some of them I've had longstanding history with. And when you find out, oh no, they're not my friends,

they just wanna be icons. That was hard for my little girl, Witheart, cause I'm like, wait, what happened to our friendship? So Angie has proven that we can be castmates and we can be friends. Interesting. That tracks too, because Angie, one could argue she might be the most boring of the group. What?

Angie? As a human being, that's a compliment. When it comes to reality TV, I know. But yeah, she's more chill, isn't, when it comes to reality TV, I know. But yeah, she's more chill, isn't she not? Compared to the rest of the cast? No, she's sniper mouth. I'm with you, Whitney.

Yeah, she is a sniper. What do you mean by sniper mouth? She has good one liners. Okay, so- But she's usually not like heading up the drama. Okay, facts. So she's not a potster. Yeah, I guess that's what I mean.

But her words can cut. Like I don't's what I mean. But her words can cut. Like, I don't ever want to be cut by her words. Because I don't think I could have as good of comebacks as she does. That's fair. I agree, yeah. Who were you closest with before you started filming? Heather Gay.

Yeah, Heather and I actually knew each other for a couple years prior to the show. So y'all are not actually cousins? Okay, so we are actually third cousins, I think. So my great grandfather. So my great grandfather and her great grandmother were brother and sister. So I actually knew her, but not her great, yeah, I don't know. Sound like that. You sound like Stacey Schroeder,

who was like, we interviewed Gypsy Rose, and she was like, I'm tenth cousins or something. Yeah, I'm not, no, I actually, there's high potential that we were at a family reunion at one point in time together. Okay. High potential, but I don't know, she grew up in Colorado. Where do you stand now with Heather? Cause Heather's been under a lot of fire

since the reunion. Oh my God, yeah she has. How do you stand now with Heather? Because Heather's been under a lot of fire since the reunion. Oh my god, yeah, she has. How do you see it? It's hard for me because I don't know if you remember, if you've watched, I have stood by the fact that I always thought Jen did it. Since the reunion of season three, I said it. I was the only person on the stage that had raised my hand. And watching it back, piecing it all together, I feel like it's hard because Heather did keep this lie from all of us.

Like the burden of the lie that she, the burden she carried from lying about the black eye had to be so heavy and hard and I empathize with that. So instead of judging her and criticizing her, I'm trying to understand why she made the choice to hide it and lie about it. And knowing what it's like to be under the pressure of a reality TV show, I empathize with that burden. And I'm going to leave it at that. Like, because every other component involved, every other opinion piece of it,

I just, I can't imagine what it's like to have to lie to production, lie to the audience, lie to your castmates, and then come out with it later. Like, that would be very hard. And that's why I got up and gave her a hug. How did you know that it was Jen? What made you suspect? Suspect, yeah.

Um, because it's Jen Shaw. Okay. Like, I, there's been many physical altercations that did not make it to air, and I was in two of them. So I just, yeah. You all mentioned the reunion. She seems like her thing was to physically assault people. Yeah, one time she got out of my hot tub

while we were filming, and she ran through my house, wet as a noodle, and I had to tackle her in my entryway because my kids were home. I'm like we are not going to make a physical loud scene in front of my kids like not in my home. So I get like when Heather apologized to you I get the you know blaming like a false accusation about production that's fucked up. Obviously no one likes a liar. I get that. So I'm wondering, why was that? And just a little background on me, I got into Housewives this season.

And when I start any franchise, I just jump in wherever we're at and then I'll go back and watch. So I'm fully caught up on the current season, seeing a ton of clips of some of your amazing highlights. But why was that black eye such a moment, and why was everyone trying to figure out who did it?

I think it's the way that it was presented to us, and yeah, I agree, production are our allies, our partners, and they should never be thrown under the bus like that. But Heather deflects with humor, and that's one of the biggest reasons why she and I have gotten into fights is because I'm like, this is not funny. Stop, like be real with me. Like be vulnerable. Don't deflect with humor. And I think-

It's like dismissive at times. Yeah. So I think that she was just throwing out all of these different scenarios to deflect from the truth. And I know that a lot of people are still questioning what the truth is but based on what I saw when I went to bed that night they were wild. I witnessed them fall on top of a lounge then into the pool so I knew it was gonna be a rowdy night. And had Heather and I not been in a bad place I probably would have joined them. So I'm glad that I went to bed and locked my door that night.

What would you, what do you think you would have done if you were in that position? Like, is there a real fear of Jen Shaw amongst the group? I think that there was. I think that there still is. And I don't think it's because of physicality or like threats of what Jen can do. I think it's what she knows.

Oh, because a lot of, you know, I, for the most part, um, like watching the final reunion, I was alarmed by how many people were supporting Monica. Fans. Were you? I was. I was. Really? Uh, and despite Heather fucking up, I thought her apology was pretty solid.

I'm a big believer, we all are human, we make mistakes. You reference mistakes you made. It's how we handle those situations, how we respond. Do we take account? Do we try to right our wrongs? And Heather tried to do that. Or Monica. Yeah, Monica.

Like the Lulu, it just. She, all she needed to do is to come to that reunion and apologize, take accountability, and say, I am so sorry, and nothing else. And say, I did it, I trolled you all for four years, I've been stalking you, I've been DMing you from fake accounts. It's like, I don't stalk.

Yeah. There's video footage of her stalking people. I only dropped by there five times. It's like, what do you call that? And the FBI asked me to. That's like, uh. Mm-hmm. There's video footage of her stalking people. I only drove by there five times. It's like, what do you call that? And the FBI asked me to. Yeah. That's normal. Yeah, it's normal.

No, yeah, back to Heather though. Like she sat, cause I sat there and it was intense. Like Andy asked her all the heavy hitting questions and she owned it. She had an answer for everything. And that's how you clear your name. That's how you clear the situation and people can move forward with trust.

But then she went on Watch What Happens Live. And there was an interesting moment that people caught on with. And she said something basically like, I hope Jen saw this basically, which was like, why do you still give a fuck why Jen Shaw approves or doesn't approve of this message? And I'm wondering if you have an opinion as to why she said that and if you still think that Jen Shaw still has a hold over Heather. Well, it's interesting if you consider where Monica came from. She was Jen's assistant, Jen's friend, and then she turned on Jen. Monica came from. She was Jen's assistant, Jen's friend, and then she turned on Jen. So the allyship is definitely not with Monica, but I don't know. I think that I see it from the fan's perspective, but I also think that I see it from Heather's perspective where

she's like, Jen, I can speak freely about the truth. I can speak freely about you now too. But I see both sides, like, because a lot, trust me, my DMs blew up, and I haven't been on Instagram in about a week and a half, and I opened it up, and I'm like, oh, holy, I missed a shit storm. Do you think that Jen still has any type of power over Heather? That's a hard one to answer, because Heather seems

to be completely different now. Different how? She's no longer placating 2Gen. And up until halfway through last season, I still felt that. Okay. So there's growth. Yes. Yeah, lots of growth.

And I think that Heather is a new woman. I think she has really learned a lot from this black eye situation. And you know, now she's Variety's top 40 most powerful women. So. You a little jelly? No, I'm proud of her. Okay. Yeah. I like my sit in the back, stir the pot,

collect my paycheck. Why, was Heather the only Salt Lake City housewife on that list? Why was she? No, was she the only? Oh, I don't know. Oh, yeah. yeah, for sure. Well, why do you think she was?

Why? Because she's- Yeah, like versus- I mean, hello, look at her. She has a beauty empire. She wrote a book, bestseller, and the Black Eyed- She has receipts. Prove. Timelines. Timelines, yeah.

No, she, that's well-deserved. Okay, let's get into the reality von Teese of it all. Do you think production knew at all about Monica? Monica says they did. Yep. But I have a very strong relationship with my producers and I choose to have trust in them and faith in them and believe them.

I realize there's a lot of behind the scenes things that I don't know, but... But it almost sounds like... Like you want to believe them rather than deep down, you do. I mean, until they can prove to me that I can't, I believe them. Okay. But here's the thing. I don't think they knew. I will be honest. I knew...

I'd never met Monica, never seen her before, but I had obviously heard about her because Lisa talked about her, Heather talked about her, Andy talked about her, and we just kind of started the season of, okay, I don't know her. I've heard about her, but I don't know her. Were you confused by her casting because she doesn't seem to have a housewife pedigree?

And to me, you know, if I were a housewife, I feel like I would have been like, what are we doing here? Like, what was the sense of the group when you found out that she was casted? So from like a socio-economical standpoint, yeah, absolutely. But from a willing to put your life out there and quote unquote share your life story. Who knows what that really is now, right? Because I think Linda, her mom was like, she's the, she deserves an Emmy. Because I think that the two of them were in cahoots.

And I think- Do you deserve an Emmy for just being a bad person and willing to show that on TV? No, actress. Like daytime actress soap operas. Soap operas. Yes, soap operas. No, actress. Like daytime actress soap operas. Soap operas. Yes, soap operas. A soap opera.

She, they are a toxic, toxic duo, but great TV. Yeah, so I think that she's brought it and I think the producer saw that she was willing to do and say whatever. Truly. And she did. But yeah, but that's, see, but I kind of roll my eyes

at that from like a fan. Just like, if the only goal is to find crazy people willing to say crazy shit, that's not that hard. You know, there needs to be something more. The problem is, is we all came on, well, most of us came on as ourselves, who we are, right? I've shared my real life, real life stories, my vulnerabilities, my wins, my losses. And how nice would it be to come on and just make up a name, make up a life,

and be someone you're not? Like that would be amazing. Yeah, I guess. You know, like that's what Monica, in my opinion, that's what Monica did, and she studied us for four years. So of course, the producers felt compelled to pick her because she was studying for four years. Doesn't that give you the ick? It's such an icky feeling.

Yes! I literally just bought a new house. I'm moving. Yeah. Because of Monica? Not because of Monica. Why? Dude, some fans are wondering if it's because you're not going to return next season.

Well, let's keep them wondering. Oh. No, it is not because of Monica and it's not because of a lack of a return. It's because one, I can and I want to. Period. Period. And two, I, yeah, I live in this economy.

Pop off, queen. No, really, I love my fans, but my fans, my address, I didn't realize that... Is public. ...is public. And so now I'm moving to a private place, and no one's gonna know where I live, and my kids deserve that.

Put your house in a trust. Yes, exactly. It's already done. Like, we're, no one's, we're gonna film a dummy house where no one's gonna know where I live. And I hope that everyone respects that out of the privacy for my children. I hope they do. What have you learned about like, yeah, like what it means to be a housewife?

What have you learned about how to protect yourself and your family while still being able to be a housewife? So I hate to say it, because it's like being a housewife that tells the truth and sharing your real life, what's really going on, opening up your heart and soul and vulnerabilities to the process. What I've learned is that you have to have a filter at some point in time. There has to be a yes and a no and a like what you're willing to compromise and what

you're willing not to. I've had to learn that because I've always lived my life freely. I've never filtered myself. I've never stopped to think about what I'm about to do or say. And being a housewife, I've learned it's not just about me anymore. It's about my husband, my children, my mom, my siblings.

And that was hard. So yeah, I wanna be doing love is art and all these things, but there's consequences. Yeah, for sure. So it's hard, it's a hard balance because I don't want to be doing love is art and all these things, but there's consequences. Yeah, for sure. So it's hard. It's a hard balance because I don't want to lie and I don't want to portray something that I'm not because I'm messy and I love it and I'm, I love hard. I learn hard. I fall hard, but I don't know how to do that without being me.

And there's, I'm trying to teach my kids that it's okay. But they go, so at school, the hardest thing is the school kids will pull up and I'm trying to teach my kids that it's okay. But they go, so at school, the hardest thing is the school, kids will pull up photos from the internet and like talk to my kids about stuff. And they'll find pictures from my Instagram from years ago and you know, pictures that maybe the kids don't love of themselves.

So I've kind of stopped posting my kids as sad as it is. I don't really share much about them on Instagram. Well, as expecting parents, I get it. It's tough because I think we're going to want to obviously share because we're so proud and we're so excited. But people are fucking weird. I also don't want my kids to become weird. Have you given thought about that, about how aware they are of you on TV or them on TV? Yes. So when they, when I started they were nine and six. Now they're 13 and 11. And we've

just had to really be open and honest with them. We've had to kind of maybe push them on what normal kids that don't grow up on reality TV, We've had to kind of maybe push them on what normal kids that don't grow up on reality TV, we've had to push further. So they're probably living a little bit beyond their years, which is sad, but at the same time, they're going up faster. And now in the past, I used to explain things.

Now they just tell me straight up, they'll be like, mom, what the? Like don't ever do or say that again. Don't, mom, that is cringy. Mom, stop. Like, mom, I do or say that again. Don't, mom, that is cringy. Mom, stop. Like, mom, I'm so proud of you. Like one time we have a theater in our basement and Justin and I watch, we get the link

like a couple days earlier, right? And Justin and I were down there watching, like you guys can't come down for this episode because I just knew that I was, it was the, you exploited my vagina. Oh, yes. Yes, yes. That's a tough watch with the kids.

Yeah. So I asked them, please don't come downstairs. Lo and behold, they're sitting on the stairs of popcorn, like watching around the corner. And I thought, oh no, they're gonna like, that's so cringy. But my daughter said to me, she goes, mom, I'm so proud of you for finally standing up

for yourself. I couldn't take one more time of you in a fight that you don't say something. And I was like, okay, Bobby. Sorry. I mean, you're going to be on that season, right? Yeah. Okay. I mean, I don't know if we're officially announced.

I think it's pretty much been announced on social media without. So if there is a season, you have every intention of being on it if they want you. Exactly. Okay, all right, good. And assuming that happens, do you have a goal of like what kind of Whitney you're going to bring to the show? Yeah, so there's so many sides of me

that haven't been seen. Like I have two businesses, I have a podcast. I am- What's it called? Wild Rose Podcast. Okay. Subscribe. Everyone. Well, yeah.

I'm gonna, after this, I'm pausing for, I'm gonna release seasons. Well, subscribe. And then when she comes back, she'll be ready to go. No, everyone's been questioning. I'm like, it's still here, I promise. It's coming back.

I have ADD so bad. What did you ask me? What kind of Whitney are we gonna- We're gonna see the side of Whitney that always seems to hit the editing floor. I'm strong. I do stand up for myself. I do advocate for myself.

And I'm gonna stop being nice. Just like even that's gonna go against my core and it's gonna be so hard, but if I have to be relentless in the pursuit of getting my strength out and my point of view, then I'm gonna do it. And it's gonna be hard for me because I lend to just being chill, easy, forgiving,

but not this season. Because I know what I'm up against. I mean, you have it going into it, you know what's coming for you. You followed Monica back after the reunion on Instagram. I did. Well, that's what I- I thought I unfollowed her.

What we heard, you, Meredith, and- No, I never stopped following her. So that might have been what it was, yeah. I never stopped following her. I unfollowed her this last week. So you don't follow her now? I don't now. Did you see all of the Burn Book photo shoot,

the Reality Von Teese photo shoot? How did you feel about her really just leaning in? That's what made me unfollow. Yeah. Even though I realize she probably has many troll accounts that are still following me. It just, you know, there's some kind of gratification of unfollowing and blocking someone like face to face, right? But I just, there's no, she's, she doesn't feel bad.

She's not. Did you go into that reunion willing to give her an opportunity to remain on the cast? Not that it was your decision to fire her, but were you open? I'm always open. If someone's willing to take accountability and I was willing to hear her out, but really it's in the action that follows. So someone can say I'm sorry, but then if they show up the same the next day, the next week, the next month, then yeah goodbye. Okay. But the next day the next week the next month then yeah Goodbye, okay, but the fact that she couldn't even sit there and say Anything at all like yeah, I will say she did go on the record

And she explained why she didn't give an apology and an interview She said the reason why I did not apologize is because I'm not going to give a fake apology I want to get to a place where can actually sit down and have a civil conversation What does that mean though? So she was saying that she didn't have the chance because everybody was talking over her. But that's implying that they, the women, owe her something before she's ready to apologize.

And I don't understand why, I don't, that annoys me, I can't imagine how it would be. I mean, hence the unfollowed, but what's interesting is there's been something that keeps, I keep getting tagged in over and over and over again, and it's someone saying that if you know, does anyone notice that whenever Monica tried to speak to other women, they would just get into a screaming match,

but her and Whitney would actually communicate without yelling, and I know a lot of fans are mad at me, actually, because they were hoping that I would hear her out and have a conversation with her, which I did. And if you go back and rewatch it, she and I had a conversation, just it was lost in translation because Lisa Barlow wouldn't stop yelling from the side.

So Monica, I asked her a simple question and she answered it. And that's when I told her, I said, then you lost me. What was the question? I wasn't just upset about reality Von T's because that's an account. I was upset by all the text messages and conversations she had with Tanisha that Tanisha shared with us. So it's while we are filming up the four years prior and while we're filming behind my back what she was saying about me versus what she was saying to my face. And I was the first one to receive her.

Like I was open to her. I, so it was hard. So, but that's Monica's fault because yeah, I would have been open to having a conversation and we did and it was missed because of the yapper on the side. She could not shut up. Someone needs to give, like duct tape needs to be involved.

That would even do it. It's just, it's so, I feel like all the other reunions, She could not shut up. Someone needs to give, like duct tape needs to be involved. That would even do it. It's just, it's so, I feel like all the other reunions, maybe they just know how to argue, like all the other franchises of Housewives, but Lisa and Monica and Heather. There's really the same Monica and Monica. Yeah, yeah, I guess it was just really, truly just.

Yeah, listen, I know Lisa says she's from New York, but she's lived in Utah most of her life. And women- That's what she says, that's her excuse. No, no, no. I was born in New York. Yeah, I'm- She's like, I can't shut up, I was born in New York.

You know that this is gonna come up week one of filming. Yeah, she's a New Yorker. But that makes her so much different than us. That means yelling's okay is how I interpret that. The difference between Salt Lake and other franchises, I think, is we did grow up under this suppression of women don't speak up. It's not really until my generation

that women have started really advocating for themselves, standing up for themselves, having opinions, saying no, the man's not in charge. So I think that I'm not the same generation as everyone. Please don't get mad at me. But I am a different generation. It's not your fault to speak facts. Than my cast.

Yeah, than my cast mates. And I just think that, yeah, it's a generational thing. I think they don't know how to really just communicate. I think everyone's learning rapidly, but women in Utah, historically, don't have a voice. It's our culture. It's changed a lot. Has Lisa, Lisa really came at Meredith for being the gossip queen and accusing Meredith

of spreading all these rumors and it was, you shut the fuck up, apologize, you did all this. Turns out it was Monica. Well, you can't have a one way conversation. What do you mean? There was DM sent back and forth. There's conversation sent back and forth all season long. If you remember the beginning of the season, I was at Meredith's ass.

I'm like, Meredith, stop doing this. You've done it every season. She did it to Lisa, the season three, Jen season two. So she is a guilty. She did Heather season three. Yeah, yeah. I mean, this is Meredith's, this is her equation. All you have to do is delete name and insert next. Like, Meredith has a formula and I love her.

Like, I love her for it because she's so in denial about it that she can't see it. What's the formula? It is, I will dig up, cause she's a law, like she's an attorney. I don't think she practices, but she went to law school. Yeah, so she loves documents. She loves files. She, you maybe got to get her on here.

She loves documents. She loves facts, proof, time, all that things. So where do you think Heather got all the information? Where do you think everyone gets all of their information? Meredith digs it up and gives it to someone else to bring it on camera. That way she can say, I never said it. Because in the reality TV world,

all you're accountable for is who said it on camera. Because everyone can be bitches behind each other's backs and talk about it. But who's the one that brings it on camera? Cause they're the one held accountable. Are you suggesting that Meredith had a role in helping Heather find out who Reality Von Teese was? I don't know that, but I do know that

you don't know if it's not. Meredith has brought a lot of documents. Remember the SEC finally gets Lisa. I actively engaged in a pursuit to take Lisa down with Meredith in season three, and I backed out because I realized what I was doing and it didn't align with my core. So I know the game and I know how Meredith plays it, and it's very respectful because she keeps her hands clean.

But also, I think that she learned a big lesson this season, and I doubt she shows up the same next season. If she does, then bring me back off, because I will let loose. But I think that had reality volunteers not come out, it would have been a whodunit of Monica and Meredith. Because did the egg come before the chicken or the chicken before the egg?

From Meredith's side, it makes sense. Like this DM of documents was everything you told me on this airplane. And then, and like Monica is the one with a troll account and DMing people, so like we can't put it past Monica that she would make another troll account to send a DM. Yeah. I mean, it all adds up.

So it could really be both of them. And there was actually a moment at a pre-ski early in the season when the rumor came out about Angie, the alleged rumor about Angie's husband. Sure. Meredith, when Angie was chasing Meredith, Meredith turns around to Heather and goes, aren't she going to share the documents? And Heather's like, what, the DMS? Pretty good, good Meredith impression. Cause she does the, yeah, I love and I, you know, I hope Meredith receives this kindly. I mean, did you finally recover from saying it's gross that she takes

baths with her husband? I mean, I hope so. But you think it's gross. She takes bath withs with her husband? I mean, I hope so. But you think it's gross she takes baths with her husband? It wasn't even about the bath. People miss the shade so hard there. I was shading the fact that she doesn't own a home in Salt Lake City and she rents Airbnbs every season. People missed it.

I was like, I don't know what vacation or until you're staying in. People really missed the shade there and it was good shade. Yeah, that was good shade. Where does Meredith live? Don't give her address. I have no idea. I have no idea where they call home, where their permanent residence is

or she travels all around. This is just a nomad. Yeah. Is it real? That's her expensive lifestyle. You all don't know where each other resides You don't go. Oh, yeah, I know where okay if I know where people if you are a resident in Utah, I know where you live and

it's there's no shame in renting a house like Merit's Merit's lifestyle is probably way more expensive than a mortgage. It's just interesting How we use electricity can be smarter cleaner and green greener. At Electric Ireland, we can help guide you there. You see, our new Net Zero Hub has all you need to know about smart meter plans, EV tariffs, solar panels and much more. Making your usage clearer, your trips greener, your home cozier, and your world brighter. Find our net zero hope at electricarland.ie. How accurate or inaccurate are you housewives of reflection of Salt Lake City? Like, because Beverly Hills Housewives, hey, it's Beverly Hills.

Yeah. You know, everyone's a bit disconnected. Where do you all stand within the community? We do not represent the mass majority of Salt Lake City. How are you received by the community? For the most part, well. The, you know, the community of active LDS really don't like us because it's a misrepresentation

of the church in their eyes and the women. And I agree, like most women in Salt Lake are driving a minivan with five kids, not working, like devout their life to their family. Devout? Yeah, devout. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, same thing.

You know, I'm not, I have always messed up my words. But there is this little pocket of people in Salt Lake that it is way more crazy than what you've even seen like there's Utah has a lot of little subcultures because it's almost I mean I grew up very Catholic so I'm familiar with religion the downside of super religious people is that sometimes it's so devout and so hardcore that people almost create these like secret societies because they can't possibly

just say this is who I am and I need you to accept me because they won't be accepted. So they just kind of live in this kind of underworld of stuff. Yeah. That's very Utah, but I do have to stand up for a lot of like a lot of the LDS people in Utah love the show too. I think it's put Utah on the map.

Like everyone, I always said in the beginning, Utah is the best kept secret. You know, season one, when they ask you like, what, what can we expect? I'm like, Utah is a gem and it's the best kept secret. And now I'm like, the secret's out. Everyone's stopped moving to Utah, stop. It's a great place.

Yeah, so I think that overall Utah loves us, but there's definitely a few that are not loving. It's fine, I find it fascinating because a lot of you, you, Heather, Monica have a very complicated relationship with the church, which I think based off what I've learned about you guys is putting it nicely. But you all seem to have still respect for it. You're willing to give credit if credit is due. Like you and Heather have a, like, almost, you don't have like a hatred for a community that many of which treated you all very poorly at times. Yeah, well my ancestors on both sides of my family built Utah. They were Mormon pioneers

and literally Utah was built by the hands of my ancestors. So I respect that legacy. Yeah, my grandfather passed and his funeral was on Monday and it was thank you and it was beautiful though to sit there and listen and be reminded of the legacy of my family and You know, I I'm an entrepreneur. I've always worked very hard and Yeah, I'm not LDS. I removed my name from the church I didn't just stop going like I am no longer a member But I am so proud of my heritage I think there's respect in picking up your home putting it in a handcart and going across the United States out of your faith

and belief No, and they persevered and they made it here and my middle name is Joanna and the woman that I'm named after died Coming across the planes during childbirth. So there's actually a monument for her in winter quarters. So it's cool. I've done the whole like, I went all the way up to Palmyra in New York where Joseph Smith was born and I've done the whole tour all the way back to Utah when I was 18.

And then that same night I came home and had a beer for the first time. How'd that feel? It was really confusing. I bet. Going into this show, you obviously knew you were going to have to air your life, your secrets. One of them, obviously, being that you had an affair with your boss. Yeah, that was hot. That was hot.

Obviously your children are gonna watch that back. So did you have that conversation with them? Do they know? Did they find out from the show? How did that kind of happen in your family? Well, you know, I have three older step-sons, right? And are you their step-grand? Okay, so I'm a grandma.

You're a grandma. Yeah, I'm a grandma. Yeah, I'm a grandma. Through marriage. Wow. And I claim them. I love Jimine Henry so much. So my oldest step-son is five years younger than me.

We went to college together and we shared a moped. He'd watch my daughter in the morning and then I would come home from school and then he'd go to school. Stop. So yeah, we're very open. I think that when you I'm I don't condone cheating I don't think that it's something to be proud of but it's how I met my husband it's the truth, so you have to figure out a way to own it and

It's my story. So either I tell it or everyone else does yeah Yeah, that was a hard conversation because when we started the show, my kids were too young to grasp. Yeah, understand. But now we've had full conversations. I think the point I was trying to make is my stepkids obviously already knew. Okay.

Because they were old enough to understand what was happening in the moment. Because it's like you have to beat the other kids at school who have families and watch and show. Yeah, I hate that you know that you're a mom. Yeah. You have to beat them, but also still wait until they're old enough to understand or

grasp. So I can see how that would be hard. This is, so I can't wait until you experience this with your daughter. When we had to have the conversation after season two of Love is Art, that was a hard one with the kids. Yeah. My daughter, we prepped them for, we did like a, what is it called? Like a role play where we're asking them questions, like possibly what kids might ask at school. And my daughter straight up goes, yeah, that's my mom. Are you jealous?

Love. So I can't wait for you to experience this with your daughter of that bond of like, you know, you're embarrassing me, but I love you and I'm gonna protect you. I can't wait. Yeah, like having a daughter is very cool, especially as you're first born. What did you have to learn? Because like it is, you know, again, we always we make mistakes, we learn from them. Yours is complicated because you married, you made a mistake, but yet it led to love and children.

So what were you still able to learn from that mistake, even though it still brought you so much joy? To not be so hard on myself and to forgive myself, because obviously this is my life path. And there was, I'm still figuring out what the lessons were, but I wasn't supposed to walk the path that, you know, my siblings did. Like I met Justin at a point in time that it was hard to get together, but here we are 14 years, married 16 together, two kids, I have three step kids, two grandkids.

And do they call you grandma? They call me mama wit. 16 together, two kids, I have three step kids, two grandkids and... Do they call you grandma? They call me mama wit. I wish, I keep asking them too, but they're like, you're weird. You're like, it's a kink. Yeah, I think it's just like being like, I guess it's just giving yourself, being kind to yourself and honoring that your path might not look like

everyone else's, but as long as you're moving forward, you're in the right direction. When did you first find out that Monica was reality of aunties? Was it in fact on the beach when Heather told you? For me, it was on the beach in the moment. How hard was it for you to go to that dinner? Because it was like this whole, you know, you all found out.

Like pick a fight with Lisa about something. Yeah, like you were so chill. Like how, how did you not just like storm into Monica's? Because we made a pact on that beach when we found out that like, okay, we're like, we may all have our differences and fight time to time, not agree, but we're a sisterhood differences and fight time to time, not agree,

but we're a sisterhood. That moment was so hard, but it bonded us on a level that we've never bonded on before. And so we knew that to get, to call Monica out, like, yeah, we still had a whole dinner to go through. And I'm proud of everyone. I mean, the fact that Lisa could wait two hours, that was impressive.

Yeah, truly. And you guys proud of everyone. I mean, the fact that Lisa could wait two hours, that was impressive. Yeah, truly. And you guys made iconic television. Yeah, and it was, I have to say, that was no production involved at all. That was just us trying to figure out, we're all making eye contact, and poor Angie had no idea what was going on. Oh, that's right, yeah, she was there.

She deserved to be in the inner circle, but at that point in time, it made sense that it was just the OGs. The OGs, yeah. Okay. And for all the fans out there who are like, well, Heather fucked up too, and yeah, Monica fucked up, but why is she getting fired for this?

What would you say to them? Because Monica used us to get here. As someone who's been on reality TV, I mean, when that went down, I knew how you all felt. Like I was like, this is so fucked, like beyond belief. And again, this is not to say that what Monica did

is murdering children, as Monica liked to point out that that apparently is the only way you could be a bad person. That said a lot about Monica. I mean, it revealed a lot, honestly. Like that was the, I was like, oh, it all kind of made sense. That's your floor. That's, and as long as you're above that,

you think you're fine. And that makes her dangerous. So dangerous. Because there is a, you know, we come after each other for everything, but there is a level of respect, and it may not seem like it, because the fights do get pretty below the belt sometimes,

but Monica doesn't have that, like you said. Like, her floor is the basement of like negative 13 floors. Yeah, and it's like, you know, on Bachelor World, right? Like, there are plenty of people who come on the show, who get casted, that you meet, and like, they were fans of the show, who get casted that you meet, and they were fans of the franchise before they got casted. And that's totally fine. That's totally fine.

Yeah, you were a fan, whatever. I was a fan when I... But what Monica is, or what she conveys, is goes way beyond fan. It goes to levels of obsession and unhealthy behavior. She brought out the burn book and made it seem like you all were gonna like laugh. I think that she thought the burn book

was gonna be this big hit, especially with the fans. I don't think she really cared about us. She put a lot of effort into it. I think it was all about the fans. I think she knew that Mean Girls was coming out and I think that she honestly played into that. And I think that was smart from whatever line of thinking, wherever she pulled that from.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I can track where she thought and it had nothing to do with us. It was not about us giving her like forgiveness. It was about the fans making her iconic. She was like, oh, I'll just make fun of myself. But it fell flat on her face. Oh my God, it was so weird.

I will never forget when she pulled it out and Andy looked over and he looks at all of us and we're all looking at each other like, oh my God, no. What are you doing? It was so weird. Yeah, it was the biggest mess of all time, I think. But I saw my pages in the burn book and mine weren't bad. Reality Von Teese didn't come after me very much.

It was more behind the scenes of post this about Whitney and see what people say. And then there was other accounts in question that tied to Reality Von Teese that were much worse. And one of them did come after me and my family pretty hard. And so I assume it is her. I have to. I was going to say, can you explain what was in the burn book?

Because from a viewer's standpoint, it looks like she just brought it out and then they just kind of moved on. But you obviously saw what was in it. Yeah, she specifically showed me my page. And then one of my makeup artists that I work with in Salt Lake City works with her as well. And he snapped photos of my page and I was like, can you like try to get me to, you know, see her side of it, whatever. And so really it was in the beginning poking fun at herself saying that, you know, she

was trying to victimize herself in a way. And then at the end was all of the receipts of the reality volunteers page. And I don't know why she thinks that us re-reading, like we already have it, we already know. Like we were tagged in it thousands and thousands of times. I think what she was trying to do, why she led with herself, she was basically saying, I can laugh at myself, but you all can't.

And this isn't a big deal. Regina George. You know, and it's like, that's not what that, this is you being creepy and weird. Yeah, and this is our real life. Everything in that book that they were posting about, our husbands, our children, our businesses, you don't mess around with that.

And that's the thing, it's just like, when I say fan, we're so appreciative of the people who listen to the show and the fans of all these franchises, but there are certain people who don't respect boundaries, who don't see us as human beings. They see us as characters on a show and just think that we're just so completely fair game. And clearly that's how Monica saw you all.

They didn't see you as human beings. She saw you as entities to fuck with. And as long as she was willing to do the same, she didn't see the difference. So I think that's beautifully said. So what character do you think she was stepping into? Jan Shaz. Yeah, the villain. It's almost like she was a, what is it called?

Like a trope of like every major villain on Housewives. Trope, yeah. A trope. I would say the wrong thing. Hey listen, I have a big education. So do I, I A trope. I would say the wrong thing. Okay, listen. I have a big education. So do I. I am from Utah.

I grew up on a farm. I say the wrong words all the fucking time. Apparently I have an accent that I wasn't even aware of. Aware of? Yeah, that everyone apparently can do so well. Yours? They did it at the reunion and it honestly was, none of it tracked. Monica's Lisa is iconic.

Monica's Lisa was great. It's because she has been working on it for four years. And she's also tracked. Monica's Lisa was great. It's because she has been working on it for four years. And she's also right, it's not that hard. I can't do impressions and I feel like I could maybe do a Lisa, oh, oh, it's just kind of, oh. She is, she does have a very deep voice. What is your relationship with Lisa currently

at this moment? Have you ever heard Lisa apologize? Without being dismissive, I'm sorry, whatever. You know, not that, like a genuine apology. A sincere apology without a but, and, if, or. Yeah, without any type of. I can't say that I have. She doesn't strike me as someone who.

So TBD of our current relationship because my thing with Lisa, and you know, I have to play my cards right because we are headed into season five, so I have to be careful. You've got time for them to forget. Oh, girl, she's gonna put this on her phone and show up in scene and be like, at what day is it, the 20, whatever,

at this time, that. What I mean, why live in fear? Who gives a shit? Like, it's just... Because she plots and she'll strategize, and I am just trying to play my, this is Housewives 101. You keep your cards close to your chest, but I will say this, where Lisa, she's upset with me over something.

And it's just the fact that I called her out for making everything about herself, what she does. And- How's that not obvious to her? Yeah, but it's not like I'm like, I was just trying to have a conversation with her. And she's so mad at me because she thinks I said that she didn't reach out when my best friend died.

And all she cares about is that I said, yeah, you didn't. And you make everything about yourself. And instead of understanding someone's feelings and perspective, like all she needed to say is, I'm sorry, I I hurt your feelings and I would have said thank you and instead she has to prove that she is right well she doesn't care about anything else other than being right and she it's hard to be her friend because sharing your feelings yeah and like but even just sharing your feelings or your perspective you are wrong wrong. And so I'm

just done trying to be in a friendship that isn't a two-way street. Yeah, it's always frustrating. Someone's like, well, it's how I feel. It's like, no, yeah, I get it. And you're entitled to your feelings, but I may feel differently and your feelings aren't more important than mine. Yeah, and I lived in San Francisco for six years and going down those one-way roads got exhausting and confusing. So I am not doing that anymore. Uh... I can't tell you how many times I went down the wrong way. It's true.

Until you learn your lesson, I'm not doing it anymore, you know? It's true. I'm no longer going down a one-way road. I'll take a fucking highway over a one-way road. A lot of people are concerned despite Monica's character that she was excellent television and that this next season will suffer from her not being a part of it. What would you say to that? People were concerned when Mary didn't come back. People were concerned when Jen didn't come back. And look at us now,

every season gets better and better and better. I promise you, Salt Lake City, it is a gem. People don't need to be concerned. Are you expecting them to cast her replacement or go with what we have? Nick, we already have her replacement. She's been here for four years. Am I missing it? Who, Mary?

No, I guess it's not her replacement. We already have that person. Who is it? You? Me? Lisa Barlow. Oh. Oh.

Being the next villain. Lisa's always been the villain. But she was the same as... To me, you know, Lisa, if you're listening to this, I've never met you, so no offense. But like, I kind of can't stand her on the show. You're an iconic villain, Lisa, okay? You are the Salt Lake icon. She really is.

So like BravoCon and stuff, she's always on the icon panel. So like she's, she represents Salt Lake City. Yeah, but she's kind of insufferable. It's fine. But like, yeah. The whole makeup thing, come on. But no, I actually, I kind of, I know a little bit about that and I, yeah, it's gonna be, I don't think we need a Monica

cause we have enough personalities as it is. So you're not expecting them to cast someone new? I mean, we always bring on friends. Okay. Are there any friends you want to bring back? Or like if you had the choice, would you bring anybody back? Yeah, I always thought Dana,

but now she's friends with Monica. I saw that, yeah. So, but she's still my friend. I don't know. But you have but now she's friends with Monica. I saw that, yeah. So, but she's still my friend. I don't know. But you have a mutual who's friends with Monica. Do you, are there people in your community that are siding with Monica or trying to get you all to forgive Monica? Not anymore.

Andy Cohen, following the reunion on his radio show, didn't put like a nail in the coffin, so to speak, when it came to Monica. He kind of referenced it as a more of a cooling off period and maybe Monica won't be on next season, but like seemed to let things open-ended going forward. How did that make you feel? Uneasy.

Okay. Yeah, very uneasy because there's so much going on in the Bravo world right now and in reality TV where I think the stakes are higher of people like myself who are on TV are like enough is enough. Like we're not going to take this. Like, so I think Bravo, I don't know what they're thinking. I haven't really had a full conversation with them yet, but I'm glad to see that they made the decision they made. Okay, yeah.

Because that means that they really do care about us. And did you all go to Bravo kind of as a united front to say it's us or her? No, we never went as like a united front ever. I think that we all had our private concerns. I mean, but it was never a us or her thing ever. Like that's not how it works. We can be delusional enough to think that we,

like that's not how it works. So. And that for anyone who's still struggling. And again, I'm as sad as anyone to not get the drama that Monica brought, but like Monica admitted to like putting a camera in Jen Shaw's house and watching it, that's so fucked. It's so fucked.

It's beyond. It's beyond fucked. It's beyond. And then would slip up and like say conversations she heard as if someone told her. How would you? Like the whole Snoop Dogg thing. It's like Lisa and that must have been a creepy feeling

when Lisa finally put that together where she's like, I never told you that and Then when she found out like all this stuff came to light. I can't imagine Lisa being like It's because she was in the car with Jen when Lisa was at the airport So I I got the backstory to that and it is so creepy. Can you share? Yeah No, Monica was in Jen's car and Lisa and Jen were on a phone call and something about Snoop. I don't... Weird.

Yeah, but the fact that Monica was listening to the conversation and used it as if... Yeah. Did she steal from Meredith's store? She was a part of that group that stole the clutches, for sure. That's true, yeah. Yeah, she was the blonde in the mask. Monica's a criminal. Yeah, she has a criminal history.

A criminal record. But it's like, you know, I don't even mean that, like, sure, yeah, that too, but like, it's, her actions are one of a criminal. Like, she is a con artist, she maneuvers, and, you know, was it Lisa? It might have been Lisa, it was either her or Lisa, her or Heather rather, that like kind of said, this is why we feel the way we do, because when you put it all together from the time

in which she started working for Jen, she like, it is such a creepy storyline. I mean, impressive maybe, I guess, but like it's so Machiavellian in nature that it's such an, it's such an ick. Do you think it's just fans who just want the drama and they're just like selfishly don't wanna lose Monica? That like, I really am almost frustrated with the fans

that, and I see it online that are mad that Monica's gone. Yeah, no, I, again, I do see the fans' perspectives. They don't get it. They don't get what's at stake for the rest of us and what that feels like for us. For fans, they're just checking out and watching the show, and Monica brought the entertainment she brought.

Like, she brought a lot of entertaining things, but. But also you could probably, I'm guessing that the show knew how the season played out and that's part of the reason why Monica was probably Such a feature and such a focus the star because well, they probably anticipated this being a one-and-done situation So, you know, they could have edited differently, but they use what they had because this season really was about Reality of aunties so they had to show Monica. Like she had to be the star.

And when you're dealing with someone of this nature, you talked about Machiavelli, because Catholic upbringing. Yeah. I went to a Catholic college. Oh, did you? Like, let's go back to Moses in the Bible, eye for an eye, troll for a troll.

Like that's when you were dealing with someone like Monica, you have to go back to those basic universal principles. Cause otherwise, this opens up the gate for anyone to come in, and anyone to wreck your life. Jen was bad, but Jen was casted as an OG. Like, they found Jen. Monica, that voice recording of her saying, Kim K's assistant there.

I remember that. Kim K was Paris Hilton's assistant. Yeah, thank you. I like, to be honest with you, I had a fast word through my own reading. It's really crazy, the psychology of it. Cause you think about about her mom. And when she told that story, which was sad,

when Monica told the story about her mom abandoning her and going to New York to be a star, I get why Monica is the way she is. Because she's just competing with her mom. You know what I'm saying? She got abandoned by her mom. Her mom went to be an actress. And instead of her mom getting to her dreams, Monica's, I'm going to do what you couldn't do. And I think just that motive, I think that's all, that's, that is who she is at her core.

And it's so sad because Linda came back and tried to discredit Monica. Like Linda was active on Twitter while the episodes were airing. It was, it was nasty. And a Greek Easter at Angie's house. I remember sitting there, Linda was sitting with the guys and she was like, Hey, let's talk about sports. Like she was just trying to fit in. And I remember the guys when she got up and left, we were like, she wants to be a housewife so bad, give Linda the snowflake.

Like she was trying to take it from Monica. And I, you know, I felt bad for Monica because I know what it's like to grow up in dysfunction. And that's where she really got me. I mean, like I woke up like in bed with her the morning of when we found out the reality of Vontiz was coming out because I was out on the beach. That trip was hard because I lost my best friend like a couple of days before and I

had to go to Bermuda. And I was just having a moment out on the beach and finally producers are like, you have to come in. This is a safety issue. I'm like, just leave me alone. I'm mourning. And Monica was great to me. Like she was there for me and sort of wake up in bed with the enemy.

The next day I was just like, how big of an actress are you? And then like now that I have that perspective looking back on it, I'm like, were you and your mom, I don't wanna discredit her lived-in experience that she claims, but now I don't believe anything. That's what I said. Like, I don't believe anything anymore because my dad and I have been estranged for two years now.

In fact, my aunt called me on the way here to give me an update on my father. And like when things are that bad and you really do wanna change, like you change them. Well, that's the thing. And I'm not, I don't wanna discredit anyone who hasn't stepped outside of their abusive situation yet or their dysfunctional situation

because that takes, everyone's on their own path and some people never get out of it in this lifetime. But it's still not an excuse, that doesn't give any adult an excuse to use that trauma that they experience to traumatize others. Yes, and I was told that Monica said to someone that if she uses the abuse dysfunction card,

she can get in with me. And that's when I was like, okay, if she's not going to take accountability the abuse dysfunction card she can get in with me. And that's when I was like, okay, if she's not going to take accountability for anything, then so I just wish Monica the best. And I hope that whatever is in her future, I hope that she changes for her daughters because I've met them, I know them, I've spent time with them.

Well, we have all seen how her mom treats her. Yes. Have you seen parallels with them. Well, we have all seen how her mom treats her. Yes. Have you seen parallels with Monica and her children? No, I have not. Actually, I've seen the opposite. That's good news. Okay. Good for her.

I've seen a very confusing... It was always so confusing for me to rationalize who is Monica because the mom I saw was very kind, gentle, loving. And then- Action. And then, I mean, I'm really happy to hear that. Yeah. That she is at least not doing that with her children.

I mean, I haven't been around them since we wrapped. So I don't know. What do you think her next move is? Because she will make one. Yeah. I just hope it's not us. You're out of the line of fire. I don't know.

I feel like she's a great actress. So maybe she should go like do some training and get on some daytime TV. I don't know. Yeah, she might've burned that bridge. Maybe Bravo will find another spot for her. Maybe, maybe. House of Villains, there's always that. What is that? Oh, it's a show that- Show with all the villains. Oh, House of Villains, yeah. I haven't watched it yet. I haven't seen it, but people like it. I know everyone's raving about the

traitors. Traitors, yeah, we're big fans of traders. Yeah, we've been covering it on Reality Recap. Little plug. Would you go on traders? Do you think I'd be good on traders? You're a housewife, so I think there's a natural skill set that you have developed. Poker face.

And you'll probably have alliances, seems like. Yeah, and my biggest weapon is I'm smarter than people give me credit for. Yeah. And my voice is high and my size is small, but that's my biggest lip. You can squeak that voice a little bit, dye that hair a little bit more blonde. I know, I took out the extensions and chopped my hair, so I have my natural hair right now. I'm like, what is happening? I haven't seen my natural hair color in years.

It looks great, that's your natural color? I mean, I have a few little highlights. This is my natural. It's gotten pretty dark. Welcome to the dark side. And I'm going to go ahead and do my hair. I'm going to do my hair. I'm going to do my hair. I'm going to do my hair. I'm going to my natural hair color in years. It looks great. That's your natural color? I mean, I have a few little highlights. Yeah, this is my natural. It's gotten pretty dark.

Welcome to the dark side. Looks great. I'm kinda liking it. It's kinda fun. I just need a spray tan. It's kinda fun. No, you don't. What are you more likely to do, traders or special forces?

Are you familiar with special forces? I mean, only because of Scandival. I haven't watched it, but I saw that Tom has on there. Did you follow Scandival? Of course I did. What were your thoughts? I'm friends with majority of Vanderpump cast. I love Vanderpump, I love the Toms.

I've spent a lot of time in WeHo with the Toms, so that was hard for me. I've spent a lot of time with Both the Toms. Ariana and Tom in, yeah, in here in WeHo. And it was hard for me when all that came out because I knew them as a couple personally. What do you think of Tom Sandable?

I wish him the best. I'm gonna have to go watch that, what's that show called? Special Forces? Yeah, I saw him at BravoCon and I had no idea what I'd say to him if I saw him. My husband talked to him and I just kind of went, hey. Why, just because you were afraid to interact with him or were you mad at him for what he did to Ariana?

Yeah. Okay. It's not, I don't know. I haven't figured it out yet. I need to maybe have a few conversations with them. We are, yeah. The Tom that I knew, it just isn't the Tom that's presenting right now. How about that?

Okay. And who was the Tom that you knew? Like fun, Ariana was his queen, like very, Tom is fun. Like very, like he would always be like, can we get you anything, like can we help you out? Like I remember us girls were up at beaches or somewhere on upper level,

and he was like catering to everyone, like do you need water, what do you need, what can I help you get, you know, like he was very caring, and then to see this kind of like more weasely, slimy like version of himself come out was confusing for me. But I still wish that he's still, I don't want to say we're friends, I'm more friends with Tom Schwartz.

Okay. I wish, well both of Tom's, but I told this to Tom when he was on. I wish him peace. I want him to figure his shit out. I really do. Because I got to know Tom, and after Scandival, I was on the show with him.

And yeah, he's got good sides to him, but he seems very, very resistant to growth. It's the whole thing of just say I'm sorry and take accountability, maybe go on pause for like at least a month Just let it pass for a month. Don't come out with a podcast. It's like Rubbing it in the I mean, it's brilliant marketing. I don't know you do marketing is pretty good I have to yeah, I mean maybe I need to do better at that

But I don't know until you walk someone's path. It's hard to to say but Obviously, I'm like women empowerment. So go Ariana. Okay. All right. Well, we're going to take a break from the hard hitting questions. We're leveling at you and are you ready for some texting office hours? And then we'll come back and have some final questions for Whitney and send her on her way. All right. It's time for texting office hours. How we use electricity can be smarter, cleaner and greener.

At Electric Ireland, we can help guide you there. You see, our new Net Zero Hub has all you need to know about smart meter plans, EV tariffs, solar panels and much more. Making your usage clearer, your trips greener, your home cozier, and your world brighter. Find our net zero hub at electricarland.ie. How's it going? Hi, I'm Sarah. I'm 29 from Orange County and I dated a real ex-husband from the Real Housewives of Orange County. And I'm having trouble coping with his cruelty

after our breakup. Okay. Are you able to reveal who this is? Can I guess? Yes. Wait, is he still on? Is he still, so he's an ex-house husband. Is his ex-wife still on?

He's not still on, but he was on a couple seasons ago. Okay. His wife's still on? She's still a housewife? No, okay, it's, what's that guy's name? It's not it's like Sway. It's not right already. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. Gretchen's ex. You're talking about. Is it Gretchen's ex-husband? No. Her name is Bronwyn and I'm dating, I dated Sean. Who is this person? Bring her Ali.

Bronwyn was on I think I don't know. I didn't really is this person? Bring her, Ali? Bronwyn was on, I think, I don't know, I didn't really watch the show before her. Like 15 maybe? Yeah, she was on just a couple years before Salt Lake started. She left him for a woman, many women. And then she's good now. Like I really, we vibe, we're good now.

Like an enemy of an enemy is my friend. Yeah. And does she know you're calling? You're gonna pass it? Yeah, we talked this morning. Yeah, I know bronwyn tell bronwyn. I said hi. Yeah. Hey Oh, wow. We were texting this morning. I called her just wait you dated shawn Yeah, I did and it was do you know shawn? Do you know him? I don't know him. I know bronwyn I i've met bronwyn. I know bronwyn

What does shawn look like? I know so much about that relationship that is just beyond. I learned that you can never trust what you see online. Yeah, well, that is true. How did you meet him? Wow. So technically my hairstylist is, well was the best friends with her makeup stylist

on the show. And so because we had mutuals, he liked a bunch of my photos and then messaged me and we met up for coffee. I'm telling you, it's always the glam. All of the messiness, all of the drama. I'm like honestly though, I'm like the most basic, like never had anything done, like want to.

So he sought you out through photos? Oh, he's a hockey player? But you have to keep in mind, like at first, I thought like, this is a rich guy. I know I'm from the show a little bit. I didn't really watch it at the time. And cause I was watching back when like Gretchen and Tamara were on it, you know,

like in high school, like way back in the day. And so like, I'm just seeing him. And then when we meet, he's like, oh, there might be camera. It was very weird. It was very weird. Did he use the cameras to lure you in to date him? No, not at all. What was that?

What he was trying to say though? There might be cameras. It might be weird. He's like flexing. No? He said that in person and it freaked me the hell out. Okay. Yeah.

Like I was like, what are you talking about? Like who are you? What is happening? Are you on cheaters? Like what is happening? How long do y'all date for? 13 months. Oh, wow.

And you know what's upsetting is that there have been interviews. If you really go back to like April last year and there are interviews where a girlfriend is mentioned as being like super young and stupid and whatever. There was a lot of animosity between us because of what he said to her and versus like what I was told by him and realizing he was a liar of animosity between us because of what he said to her and versus what I was told by him

and realizing he was a liar in all of this. I don't know. It was a lot in 13 months, but. Sorry. Yeah. All right, so other than the shock value of who this is all about. I was young.

What are you actually struggling with and how can we help? We met mutual friends, went out for coffee, started dating, second date. I'm meeting all of his kids and he has seven on like the second date. That's kind of weird. Very weird. And it is weird.

Like it was intimidating for me. I wasn't prepared. I'm a stepmom to kids close to my age. That's weird. It is weird. Yeah, and I was like astonished by it. And then of course we want to like hook up the night. Everything's going on.

So it started in 2021, we dated. And then in February of 2022 Bronwyn first heard from her kids that we were hanging out, that I had seen them and I didn't know that she didn't know. And she flipped the hell out, respectfully. Were they married at the time? Yeah, technically.

Oh, okay. Oh, shit. Did she have her girlfriend yet though? She had Vic at the time? Yeah, technically. Oh, okay. Oh, shit. Did she have her girlfriend yet, though? She had Vic at the time. Okay. Yeah, so they were nesting and doing this thing where they would stay at the same house in Newport. Yeah, I had friends that did that.

And just go in and out, which caused animosity because then they would judge each other off of what each was doing when they were gone. Stupid. And then I would see his kids all the time, but then come February, I think Koa, who's like this, I think she might be like six or seven now, had said something like playfully to her mom, like she should she's five, you know, and

she freaks the hell out. And I start getting harassing messages, DMS posts, like comments. And she would say the most vile things to me understandably now like looking back understanding the situation I get it but like at the time it was a lot I mean sent me stuff like your trash no one wants you on earth you shouldn't be here you're disgusting or a whore I'm gonna call your job and tell them that you have a DUI like the worst oh my god and I'm 27 her people her you know she She was upset. Sorry, and I know that there's a lot of red flags in this.

Like obviously he's going through a separation, has seven kids and is 20 years older than me. I get it in retrospect, but like, I don't know. I was like really into them, you know? And he was telling me he loved me a bunch. So all this stuff is going on with Bronwyn. I'm 27, I'm trying to act like I'm as mature as these people. I don't say anything.

I never responded to her. Out of 13 months, for 12 months, I did not ever respond to a message, a DM, anything, because that's the mother of his children. So I have no place, no right to disrespect anything she's asking. Eventually what happens is on my birthday in October, 2022, we break up because he couldn't stand up for me, couldn't put his foot down.

I feel like he was still in love with her. And then also he showed up two hours late to my birthday dinner. And then like the next night we had planned for my birthday. He didn't show up like just no text, just didn't show up. So I broke up with him the next day on Halloween. And then I never got an apology. I never got anything back. I had to beg him for my keys back to my apartment, which he was living in half the time, by the way, because the money is not all there. Like it's, I don't know. It's

just, it's very toxic. I mean, I just read an article that he like stole all their money or something. Yeah. Oh yeah. And I'm part of that article. Like, if you look back to like April, it's like he's spending it all on her, but he's not paying child support. He is living with a girlfriend now that is new. But point is we broke up, no apology, no nothing. I had to beg him for my keys back. And then it's been, this happened very recently, like a week ago.

He's been dating some new girl that he's posted about. Don't know her name, never seen her in my life. Don't know her handle, where she lives, nothing. And I get a slew of degrading messages from his profile and I have the screenshots to prove it. You're fat, you have cellulite, you're too white, too ugly, and then she said something along the lines and feel free to bleep the sounds we want,

but like, I'm pregnant with this baby, we're gonna drop it on your fucking front porch. Like it's disgusting. To the point where I was straight up like is this okay? And I told them I'm so I get all these messages. So is this coming from his new girlfriend or him? From his account. And I don't know that it's his girlfriend at the time.

You think it's coming from him? It's coming literally from Sean Burke's account. Yeah. And he had had me blocked, so I was like, whatever, like this is weird. So instead of texting, I just decide to like call him and be like, what the fuck is going on? So I call him and the girl answers. And immediately when she answers, when she says hello,

I'm just like, oh, this is the new girlfriend, got it, hung up, blocked the profile. And then I get messages from LinkedIn, like LinkedIn of all places. Why is she harassing you though? I don't know, and it's so weird because I don't know her name. Bronwyn barely knows her, has never met her,

knows her name as Nikki, but like doesn't know her. But what handle is she using to reach out to you? Or is it Sean? Why does she have his? It's his, it's his. I can show you literally through the screen, like from his profile. It's so weird.

Like it was from his, so I call him that night and I'm like, what the fuck is going on? The girl answers, she hangs up. I'm like, okay, that's cool. She keeps sending messages through TikTok, Facebook, LinkedIn, I'm blocking them, blocking them. Starts making fake profiles and going after me, responding to my stories of like joking about it.

And I figure, look, this guy works a full-time job. I'm gonna call him the next day knowing he's not gonna be with her like joking about it. And I figure, look, this guy works a full-time job. I'm gonna call him the next day knowing he's not gonna be with her like at his work. I call him and this is the end of it. And I call him at like 11 a.m. And I was like, what the fuck happened? Like if your girl messages me one more time, I'm going to the police.

She knew where I worked, she knew where I lived, she knew every detail about me, which is weird because I don't know her name. It's her name, Monica. That's giving. And she's like my age, I think. And I just, so I threatened him with that. And then his response, and this is the gist of it,

he responded with, I don't know why you're so upset. I never loved you. You were just there. You were just an object to me. Verbatim, I have it also in a text. So my problem is, is why do you guys say that? Like he lived with me like half the time. Like I have a one bedroom apartment in Orange County. It's not like glamorous, you know, it's a lot for like someone trying to do their best, but like it's not, he was, it's not Cota de Casa, you know?

So what are you struggling? I mean, those are very hurtful things to hear, no doubt, from anyone. But what are you struggling with? Mostly when a guy after a relationship comes at you and says, after obviously saying he loves you a bunch and being with you, why feel the need when you're proclaiming to the world that you have this new girl that you love? Why feel the need to reduce a woman, your ex,

to like an object saying you never loved her? And did he mean that? And if he didn't, am I, is he an asshole? Or if he did, am I stupid? Are you wondering if he's an asshole? No, no, he's an asshole. But I'm wondering more on like, because this hasn't been the first time

this has happened with men in my life, of a guy loving you, love bombing you, leaving you, and then acting like he never loved you. Why do guys do that? I can't speak for all men. Well, obviously. But unfortunately, there are shitty people out there, you know, and there are self-centered people out there,

and there are toxic people out there, abusive people out there, and he, as you recognize when you tell this story, I mean, I don't know how you hear this story, but it sounds nuts from our point of view. It is actually fucking crazy. And we've all- Sounds like cow swabs.

Yeah, we all make mistakes. It was a year of that. We all chase the wrong people. You know, if you listen to this show, we all, you know, chase validation and all those things. But like, you need to be able to look back and see this story, how we see this story. You know, chase validation and all those things. But like, you need to be able to look back and see this story how we see this story, you know? When this episode comes out and you listen to this

and hear yourself talk, I mean, being serious, you should like honestly listen to it as if like you're not the caller. A lot of people do actually when they call on this show. And you should hear how it sounds. You know, again, I can't speak for all men, but like. This isn't like the first time it's happened though. Like other guys have treated me like shit after,

and I just don't feel, I don't get the random reaching out to just make someone feel like shit for no reason. Can I step in for a second? Please, yeah. I wouldn't generalize to say it's a guy thing, this is a person thing, this is a human thing, and this might be hard to hear, but I'm gonna say it because I want you to succeed.

So this is a cycle that you found yourself in, right? Yeah, people that don't love me. Yeah, and that you're attracting, you're attracted to this type of person. So clearly there is some sort of cycle that you are personally stuck in. And like Nick said, listen to this and maybe pick out something that resonates with you that you can recognize that, oh, that's it.

This is where I trip up. This is what I need to look inward on or, but only you can answer that for yourself. For me personally, I lived in a cycle for 36 years and And finally, one day I said, enough, I'm done. I cannot do that anymore. But it was hard to look at myself in the mirror to realize that I was the person allowing it to happen. And I was seeking validation in the wrong way. Yeah. Yeah. And it's been 14 months. I haven't dated anyone. I haven't been with anyone.

It really took an upon me during the relationship. And then obviously afterwards it just continued. I take accountability for the fact that I obviously have a low self-worth, like who would be in that situation? Who had self-respect? Like I, and that's, I'm so grateful because I've grown in that aspect. So I do know that it sounds loony-toons, and it was, but I have learned from it, but I guess my lingering question is just, I just feel so stupid. I know I was young, I was 27, I'm still only 29, I'm young,

but you do grow in the 20s, like exponentially. I mean, we all make mistakes. I had this conversation with someone I care about recently. You're still thinking very much about like what this says about you. Yeah I'm insecure. And you are still giving him the power to determine your own self-worth. You know, why would he do this? Who gives a shit? He's a dick. He wanted to hurt you. But you are still evaluating the relationship. What did it mean? Did he ever love me?

I don't know, I don't care. As someone who's listening to your story, I just know it sounds like this guy is not capable of genuine love, of putting other people before him, of being empathetic and compassionate and selfless and caring. He has a track record of this, and you just have to see it for what it is. You know? That's so hard too, after coming out of like, being cheated on and caring. He has a track record of this, and you just have to see it for what it is.

You know? That's so hard too, after coming out of life, being cheated on and abused. You know what I mean? It is genuinely hard. It's easier said than done, obviously. But I do agree with you. I get it, and I'm sure there are points

of your relationship where you had probably fun with them. And despite all the horrible stories that you have about the relationship now, you want that relationship to mean something. It was 13 months of your life, you know, and it's hard to lose that stuff. But instead of trying to find meaning in something that's over,

like you just have to start seeing it for what it is. Like you ignoring red flags, you know? You giving him an opportunity to make you feel special because you can't do that on your own right now. And just recognizing that, putting it out there. All right, and now instead of beating yourself up, well I'm stupid, I couldn't have done this, and feeling sorry for yourself,

because that doesn't get you anywhere. You just do something about it. Are you in therapy? Yeah, yes. I've tried. I mean, this has been like, our relationship ended in like October, so it's been, I'm good. But you're still struggling,

and maybe it's a journey. I think I'm struggling with just the verbiage of like, you're just an object, like you are nothing. I think that's what got me versus the relationship ending. Like I don't really give a shit. The people who know you know how to hurt you. You know, he just, he knows what to say. He is trying to hurt you.

Also, why have we not blocked this person? That's a good question. I think I unblocked him to call him that day, but usually we've been blocked on everything. Usually. So that means you've gone back and forth a little bit. No, that means that when his girlfriend started messaging from his account,

they had to unblock me. So he had done like social media, I did like numbers, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, no, I think you like the drama. I can't determine when he unblocks me. Who gives a f- no, it doesn't matter. I don't care about how he follows you or not. I shouldn't have responded. You're right. You need to eliminate access. Yeah, you can't let these people have access to you. And so you're, you're allowing him to have access. And you should ask yourself why, you know? I wanted the sorry.

I'm never gonna get the sorry. You're never gonna get the sorry. He's not sorry. He's not sorry. I've never broken up with a guy and not gotten him like crying to me three months. Not that I'm like the special like little thing, but I'm just saying like.

That's your ego. They usually, yeah. That's your saying, oh well, it didn't work out, so I need him to regret it. I need him to be sorry. What if he comes. And I'm gonna leave this door open just in case. And that's why you don't block him.

Because you're giving him an opportunity to come back. Well I'm sorry. Well you got, and I say this with love, you kinda have to get over yourself and your ego. And then you have to ask yourself, again, what kind of relationships do you want? Like at some point, you're clearly an intelligent person. Whitney got to a point where she's like,

you know what, I'm done, I'm done doing this. And you kind of have to take accountability and do the work. And I'm glad you're in therapy and doing the work, but just going to therapy is a start and it's a great start because that's hard to do. But you might not necessarily be applying what you're learning in therapy

or maybe you don't have a good therapist and you need a new one, I don't know. But. I've also been sober, which I have to say, in the past 30 days. Amazing. Awesome. Congratulations. For like whoever wants to do it.

That's awesome, so that's progress. But like. It's just nice to be like clear headed. Eventually you're gonna have to recognize, as Whitney's pointed out, that when it comes to bringing drama into your life, you are fully responsible. 100%. And you have-

Totally agree. And you have tools like blocking, like literal tools, and then tools that hopefully you're learning in therapy to hold yourself accountable, to limit these toxic people from your circle. That's how you learn to receive attention, love, and validation.

And your body doesn't know the difference between positive and negative attention. It just seeks validation. It's stimulation. Yeah. So, are you capable of forgiving yourself? Because hearing you talk, hearing Nick's great advice, are you capable of forgiving yourself? Could you look at yourself in the mirror right now and say, I am sorry? I think I could do it to other people more than myself.

And I feel like you could understand that. Like I can't talk about it, cause I'll get, but it's a little hard. I challenge you then, when you feel ready, look at yourself in the mirror, just take a quiet moment and say, I'm sorry that I've allowed you to do this, but we're making changes and it's okay if I mess up and do it again, but I'll get better and better with time. Yeah.

And 24 report is gonna be awesome. It is, it's a year of abundance, baby. It is. Yeah, all right guys, I appreciate it so much. Can I make a suggestion? Yeah, of course. I don't know how close you are with what's the housewife's name?

Bronwyn. I think you need to say goodbye to her too. No offense to her. Yeah, probably. It's no offense to her. She's not the problem, but she is part of that world. It's keeping you in. And she reaches out whenever there's an issue in drama

and it pulls me in. Exactly, and there's a part of you that very much likes it because, like as Whitney very accurately pointed out, it's stimulation. It's excitement. It's trauma. It's fun. It's distracting. You feel valued. Oh, maybe he'll regret it. Maybe he'll come around. That's on you. And you got to find the strength to to say no. Yeah, I know. We just love being adults. It's so great. say no. Yeah, I know.

We just love being adults. It's so great. But also stop. I'm ready though. Stop letting this person's words affect you. You know, he obviously is not a good person, right? And you can't, you have to stop letting him have access to you and his words affect how you feel.

I know it's really hard, but obviously you know, like you're a great person, you have self-worth, you know what you deserve. His words should not carry so much weight in your life. He knows what he's doing. Yeah, he's a dick. He knows when he says these very cruel things. He knows that you'll sit in it, evaluate it,

wonder if it's true and respond. He's not stupid. So you wanna know why he says it, that's why. Control, he wants to control you. Even when he's not with you, he has another girlfriend, he wants to have power and control over you. And you gotta recognize that so that you can stop it. I'm glad you called in for a lot of reasons,

very entertaining and hopefully it was helpful. But at the same time, you do have to stop that now. You have to stop asking yourself, why does he do X, Y, or Z and stop evaluating him because that's just your ego. It's you trying to be enough. And like. A justice warrior, I've always been that way

and I'm not okay with that. I don't think it's a justice warrior. I think that's an excuse to be enough. A justice warrior, I've always been that way and I'm not okay with that. I don't think it's a justice warrior. I think that's an excuse to be honest with you. It's not about justice. You're right, I short circuit when I don't have resolution. That's a trait of mine. That's, you have to learn to just sit in the present and accept it for what it is

because most things in life you're never gonna have an answer to. You'll never know why. Damn. But the growth happens when you can move on. You made some choices, some shit happened, and now you have to move forward. 10 years from now, you're not even gonna remember this.

Someone's gonna bring up his name and you're like, oh my God, I forgot about that. Yeah, totally. I'm not like heartbroken, but getting like, oh, that was an object randomly after months of being broken up. Yeah, you are not an object. And I'm like, what the fuck but getting like, oh, that was an object randomly after months of being broken up. Yeah, you are not an object.

And I'm like, what the fuck? You are not. He was just trying to hurt you. Do not let his words, do not believe that. But you got to get out of it. And the good news is you have all the control to get out of it. So. We're ready guys.

Well, thank you so much. I appreciate it. Well, thank you for, well, it was quite the call, but now it's time to protect yourself and move on and get away from the drama. All right, guys. I hope you have a wonderful year. All right. Yeah, you too. Thank you for the call, but now it's time to protect yourself and move on and get away from the drama. I hope you have a wonderful year. All right, you too. Thank you for the call. Good luck.

Whoo! Whoo! No. Can you hear it? She couldn't. Oh, wow. That was, that's the line. That was crazy. A few more questions, Whitney. Okay. Where do we stand with Mary? Mary? That was crazy. That was so much packets. A few more questions Whitney.

Okay. Where do we stand with Mary? Mary. Yeah, cause she really came at you hard. Unfairly so. Yeah, she did. She made some. Yeah, she is, that was pretty slanderous.

Believe it or not, Mary and I are friends now. Okay, good. Yeah, we actually went to the same party that you were at. We met Mary that night. Yeah. We actually went to the same party that you're on. We met Mary that night. Yeah. And that was fun. I arrived at that party with Mary Kosky. Oh, okay.

Yeah, Mary, Angie and I went together. I think I would like to have Mary on the show at some point. That would be a great interview. I would love to, I would love to watch that for sure. So Mary and I talked it out. And again, when two people are willing to have a conversation and hear each other and get the truth, it's easy to move forward. Yeah, because Mary, she's interesting for sure. But watching this season, you know, I feel like

I'm pretty decent at reading people, but she was fascinating, you know, and she's intelligent, She was fascinating, you know, and she's intelligent, it seems like, would you agree? Yes. Okay. But like remarkably sensitive for someone who also can cut really deep. She's also very unpredictable too, and that used to be something that was hard for me to understand, but now I just rejoice in sitting back and watching her and learning from her and yeah, she's definitely one of those that can dish, but can't receive.

It was interesting because I wonder, because I think what she was trying to say at the reunion, I almost understood what she was saying. It's like, and would you say, would you, do you agree with this? Because this is how I interpreted what she said. It's like, say whatever you want to my face. Just don't say it behind my back.

Because if you say it behind her back, it seems like that will really trigger her. But she seems to be open to you talking shit to her face. Yes. And that's true? That's facts, yeah. And learning that about her is why we were able to be friends again.

Because, yeah, clearly she called me unwarranted names and I'm so glad we had the opportunity to clarify that if I have in fact done or said something that I wasn't aware of and she said no. But now Mary, you just have to say it to her face, give her a phone call, a text message, she'll give it right back. I don't mind that, yeah. Yeah. But I actually, I never thought I'd say this,

but I'm glad that we found Resolve. Do you think we'll see more of Mary next season? I mean, I'm seeing a lot of Mary right now, so. I can't answer that question, I don't know, but I talk to her frequently, like daily. She's a little- Tell her I said hi. Should we call her?

Can we? She'll kill me, I have to give her a heads up. Yeah, let her know that we're on, and we can edit it out if she doesn't want it on. I wonder if she knows what a voice text is. Let me just ask her. Hey Mary, I'm recording a podcast right now in LA called The Vile Files with Nick Vile.

And he wants to meet you. Can we call you? Are you comfortable with that? But we are recording a podcast, so you would be recorded. But he's one of your biggest fans and wants to talk to you. So. I'm going to get that and be like, what is this? Yeah.

I wonder if she has ever done, I don't know. We've never done voice notes. Like she, uh. They'll text a lot. Yeah, I wonder if she has ever done, I don't know, we've never done voice notes. Like she, uh, They'll text a lot. Like, I just, they're not that word in a text. Like it's no big deal. Oh my gosh.

Yeah. She really does. Doesn't she? Yeah. She, yeah. Okay. Well, I hope she responds. Me too.

Yeah. We'll see what she says. Yeah. She looked at my belly because it was also out at that party and she went, oh, you're having a boy and it goes close. But she was like certain, she was like, I can tell this belly. She's actually so endearing in her own way. Like she's, she, I had so much fun with her in LA at that party.

I enjoy watching her. We pre-gamed together. I enjoy watching her. We pre-gamed together. I even took her out to a gay bar after. Really? Yes. It was her first time out and she loved it. Yeah, it was great. I think, do we have any other questions for Whitney? I mean, on the topic of Mary, I know she has her iconic little girl line.

Have you found the fact that maybe you're a younger housewife and you're a little bit more soft or spoken? Have you found that as like a, I don't want to say disadvantage, but do you ever find that they kind of gang up on you in that sense? Oh, they absolutely gang up on me for my age, my voice, my looks, my size, everything. And so it's kind of like, are you calling me little because of my size? Why are you calling me little? My age? Either way, it's kind of like, are you calling me little because of my size? Like, why are you calling me little, my age? Either way, it's patronizing. It's patronizing, but I don't know why they continue

to do it because I don't care. To me, it's a compliment and it shows their insecurity. And I'm like, I'm happy to be here. I was one of the youngest housewives hired ever. Who do you think is the most insecure of your castmates? Conker. Conker. The makeup thing's ridiculous.

In Palm Springs. The glam, just the glam for everything, that she really is, I mean, she really has a glam person travel. That's what she says. That's what she goes to the grocery store. She gets glam. Wild.

I mean, Mary called her insecure. You know that's an insecure image. I love that. We love Mary. Matter of fact. Yeah, I don't know. I'm around a lot of people who are on TV every day. Some of my friends are on the news, news anchors, whatever,

and they don't even freaking get glam every day. Like, come on. I don't know. Whatever, Lisa says it, so it has to be right. Yes. The truth, right? Like Mary, sometimes she texts back right away, sometimes it takes.

It'll probably be a while. Yeah. Well, tell her we said hi. We'll FaceTime. We'll do like, you can do a multiple FaceTime. Great. Whitney, thank you her we said hi. I'll um, we'll FaceTime. We'll do like you can do a multiple. Yes Whitney thank you so much for coming. Yeah. Thank you for having we had a ton of fun. I hope you had fun, too I had a blast any final thoughts. No, you have good reads on things. Okay. Yeah shows great We love watching you guys. We wish you nothing but success. Congratulations on an epic season.

I'm sorry it was emotionally draining. That's fine, that's what we signed up for. We are very excited for next season and we believe in you all. Thank you. For delivering without Monica. Yeah, and that's why I was gonna say my final thought is don't give up on Salt Lake City.

I'm not. And I brought you a gift. Oh, what is the gift? Just a little bit of, some of my skincare, some goodies for everyone in the office. I wanted to bring everyone jewelry, but. Where can people find this? Wildrosebeauty.com.

Okay, wow. Pretty simple. Damn. Wildrose? Yeah. A full package. We got some bath bombs. That's the best thing that came out of the bathtub gate. Yes, bath bombs. Anything for me?

Yeah, that's for everyone. that's for everyone. Do you take baths? You can put on the floor of your shower too. Not often. But no, there's some cleanser, toner, serums, it looks very wonderful. You gotta rub that glow all over your belly. Yes. Packaging is very nice. Thank you so much for coming Whitney. It was great. Thank you for having me. Nick, did you know that they have the same age gap as us? Well, we're 17 and a half. But her and Justin are 18 years. Oh, look at us. Except for you and I are the same age. Are we? I don't know. I'm 43. You're 43? Yeah. How old are you? 25. 25. I'm 37. Okay, so. So we're out. Yeah. We'll double date sometime. Yes, we will. So wait, how old were you when you met Justin? Well, we'll double date sometime. Yes, we will.

So wait, how old were you when you met Justin? 21. I was 21 when I met Nick. Oh my gosh! So you're following a similar... We started dating at 22. Yes. And you're 25 pregnant.

So yeah, you're following a similar trajectory. I met Justin at 21, had Bobby at 23. Oh my gosh. And still going strong. Yeah, 14 years married, 16 together. What's your favorite thing about your relationship? We accept each other as we are. Love that.

Okay. Simple as that, like we're not always on the same page, but we're always in the same book. Love that. Absolutely period. Oh my gosh. Well, tell them we said hi. And the second you're not in the same book,

that's when you gotta get back in there. Well, we work hard on being in the same book. Yeah. And the same page. We're usually on the same page. We're always in the same book, but it's worth it on being in the same page. And chapters.

Or chapters, if you're in the same chapter, that is like winning. Truly. We're there. Well, congratulations. I wish you all the best vibes. Oh my gosh. Gonna be a mama.

I know. Well, thank you guys for listening. Don't forget to send in those questions at asknick at TheValFiles.com for all things, texting, office hours, mediation, you know, you know the drill. Thanks for listening. We'll see you back on Monday.

Bye. Bye!