The WAN Show - If Buying Isn’t Ownership Then Piracy Isn’t Theft - WAN Show June 20, 2025

Episode Date: June 21, 2025

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We've got a great show lined up for you guys this week. My highlight topic of course is that the TeamViewer license, which I have spoken about at length on this show, the perpetual license that I purchased for TeamViewer 12, apparently, I don't know, those thousands of dollars you spent on it, guess what? You don't have any license for it anymore, to which my response would be one of these buddy boy what else we got going on this week we have I do too usually you know what we're gonna mix it up we're gonna mix it up are we doing one one one one that's one one

one yeah that was right nice doing that nice all right steam wants you to know about the fake frames being generated on your computer Trump phone I love the idea of only saying that Trump phone What are we gonna talk about about exactly? Who knows? Just Trap Phone! And Nexus Mods sold and as a person who has kept a perpetual subscription just to support something that I enjoy a lot, I have questions. The show is brought to you by Vessi, Corsair, and Squarespace, and of course in partnership

with our rap partner dbrand, our our laptop partner Dell and our chair partner Secret lab not to mention our hair or hair gel partner dip it II do That is actually the brand I used to use when I judge has their branding that me too has their branding change at all I doubt it. I mean, I never looked too closely at their branding I just looked at that it was cheap. Yo, it still looks like the same. Nice awesome nice And it's still cheap four dollars and forty nine cents for a tub of Oh 348 Canadian for a tub of it gotta love it all right amazing Why don't we jump right into our headline topic this week?

Which is of course that teamer has been killing off lifetime licenses. We're going to get into Redditor CrazyCats911's letter that they shared, but first, before we do that, I would like to read from an email that TeamViewer sent me in 2016, in November of 2016. This was for quotation Q756412-Y8F4P2TV-0408275. Dear Linus, thank you for your email. Attached, please, your special offer to update to version 12. We don't offer free updates, but since you purchased in August, I was able to apply a discount to your update.

So this was clearly in response to me being like, yo, WTF, your new software came out literally three months after I just paid, I believe it was either five or $6,000. Do you remember? No, but it was a lot, especially at that time it was a lot. I spent a substantial amount of money, especially again, in the context of it being in 2016, a substantial amount of money on a TeamViewer license

with the intention being that for, I believe it was for a remote employee to be able to access slash being able to administer some kind of of something anyway. The point is I needed a perpetual team your license I needed a couple of seats for it Our licenses are perpetual licenses when you purchase a license with us You make a one-time payment to purchase the version we sell at that time and all the updates within your perpetual version 10 Will be extended to you at no extra charge. Well, apparently I bought version 10. Okay, I'm not sure of the details here. There are no additional monthly, yearly, nor maintenance fees. That's good to know. Good to

know. Thank you, TeamViewer. TeamViewer releases a new major version, EX, V11 to V12, every 12 to 15 months. Version upgrades are new functionality that our users have requested throughout the previous year. As such, updates are absolutely optional and solely based on your decision whether the features of the new version offer you any added benefits or not. Should you decide the new features are of a benefit, you will then need to update your license. As an existing customer, you will receive a substantial discount off the new version list price. We support all earlier versions of TeamViewer. If you choose to stay with the version you originally purchased, you will always find your license supported here." And it sent a

link. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Refer to our website for further information about your latest whatever whatever etc so there's a couple more emails that go back and forth but basically I said let's go ahead with the upgrade at a thousand dollars team viewer 12 was when they added mobile to mobile remote access which was was, you know what? I think it was for our 2FA phone. Hyper old school 2FA solutions. Yes, okay.

So we had an old phone that we left plugged in that ran our 2FA, like. That's how old we are, man. I know, right? That was when like 2FA started. Yeah, I know. So- Well, okay, 2FA through authenticator apps. Yeah, so there was a phone that sat,

because in the days before that, our 2FA was just all on my phone. So anytime anyone needed to log into anything, they had to come bother me for a 2FA code. Or mine for certain things. Yeah, as we scaled, so in 2016, this is around the time that we had a substantial enough employees that it was no longer viable for me to just have all the 2FA on my phone also, that's crazy. So we had this 2FA phone. So that's what we ultimately decided was worth

the upgrade cost. All right. So that's all great. That's all cool information. Thank you, TeamViewer, for letting me know how things work at team viewer Now let's have a look at the letter. I got that crazy cats 911 is sharing over on reddit Dear customer. Thank you for being a valued team viewer customer So Luke tell me something hold on we're gonna go back to the cam for a second here. How much work is it for that email to say, dear, your actual fucking name?

That's been a solved problem for a long time. Instead of dear customer? Yeah, it's pretty easy. That's like if I sent you an email, I'm like, dear Luke, thank you for being a valued Luke. Yeah, yeah. What have we been doing here? You know how like when you, if you repeat, um, like the same intro to a paragraph over

and over again, it's like clunky. It feels like the same thing, but at the end of the sentence, dear customer, thank you for being a valued customer. It's like, just find a different word. We're reaching out to inform you of an important update regarding your TeamViewer license. Support for TeamViewer versions 11 and 12 will officially end on the 31st of December 2025 as we continue advancing the security and performance of our remote connectivity platform. How does this affect you? Well licenses will no longer be supported on our global network infrastructure. Excuse me?

That's not what you sold me. Yeah. I just read you guys the quote, quote, Q756412-1, okay, sorry, I won't read the whole thing again. But I just read you guys the quote where TeamViewer sold me a $1,000 upgrade to software that I had just paid.

Maybe it was a year prior. But the point is, I had just paid five grand for this software. Okay, here's the thing TeamViewer, there's two models for licensing software. There's the subscription model where you charge a low fee, okay, over a long period of time while I'm using it. Or there's the one where you charge me an exorbitant fee and then I own it forever. Like you said, our licenses are perpetual licenses. Anybody that has a service that takes active maintenance that sells a perpetual license I Question it. Well, that's their problem

With you in this situation it just it makes me question things That is honestly I am I'm more offended than placated by them offering to Allow me to use these versions for LAN connections. On LAN? Yeah. On a LAN? I could just use Windows Remote Desktop Connection. What would I need TeamViewer for if I was on a LAN with the... I've never heard of VNC like I what are you even talking about Why this change as Security standards evolve older software versions like team viewer 11 and 12 become more susceptible to vulnerabilities and that's fair enough hundred percent

That's fair enough. Yep maintaining these poses security risks and You know limit our ability to provide you with the most stable and secure experience and that you know what I mean that's valid that's valid absolutely except for one small problem our licenses are perpetual licenses there will be no additional yearly, nor maintenance fees. Luke's laptop again. Your options.

You're here, you're here. No, I'm done with that. All right. Your options. We highly encourage you to consider upgrading to the latest version of TeamViewer. As a valued customer, we're pleased to offer you an exclusive upgrade discount

should you choose to transition to a subscription plan. I have an idea. Oh, yeah. What do you think they should have done? That's a good question. I think I know what I would have proposed in this scenario. What should they have done? Okay, well, so I gotta admit, I know what I would have proposed in this scenario. What should they have done? Okay, well, so I gotta admit,

I'm a little bit emotional in this case, right? Because I'm like, I'm in it. We talk all the time about how unacceptable it is for whether it's a software service or whether it's a hardware service or like a smart home thing where they just turn off the infrastructure and what people paid for, the deal is effectively altered. Pray I don't alter it any further, right? Like, we talk about it all the time. But in this case, you know, I have

skin in the game. I paid thousands of dollars for this software that explicitly, like I made real darn... They were proactively communicating to me that this was a perpetual license in perpetuity forever with no additional cost. So with that in mind, you know, I think it's hard for me to look beyond, well, if they don't want to maintain this version of the software anymore, then they should give me the new version of the software.

My answer is that, but only sort of, I think. I think because, you know, I don't think upselling is necessarily a horrible thing, as long as you're still taking care of the customer. So I don't think you can just abandon them. You have to give them something. I think you could give them your oldest currently supported version, but then you're kind of just asking to do this song and dance again pretty soon. You could give them a feature cut down version

so it matches the features that they used to have, but it's on the new infrastructure or something, I don't know, new app thing, I don't know what all the changes are. Well, that's the thing is they, that email about how they have new versions of team viewer every 12 to 15 months Yes, so they'd actually this is from 2016. What are we even up to for team viewer versions now? Like they are clearly not updating every 12 TV or much anymore. Well, yeah who does yeah

Do they even have a god oh God, look at this site. Okay. Ew. What? What am I even looking at? It looks pretty normal for a site to me. I don't like it, but like- What is this product?

How am I supposed to know what this product is? Yeah, to be fair, that image on the right means nothing. Absolutely nothing. I thought you meant like the layout was gross. No, I just mean I have no idea what I'm even looking at here. What even is this? Does it have like...oh, it's AI junk. Awww.

Okay, is it...it called team viewer remote view plans and view plans and pricing more like view lies He's not upset at all Okay, does it even have a numbered version now? What if you what even is this? I think you'd want to go downloads. Yeah All right. I'll check down. Let me download I can't even I can't even find the stupid downloads now. Contact, guides and manuals. It's all just by. Hold on. Okay, free download. Hey, there we go. There we go. Okay, so here, maybe if I download it, it'll tell me the version number somewhere. Where's my download? It does not, by the way.

No, it doesn't. Okay. Maybe if you install it or something, I'm not sure. Anyway, the point I was trying to make is I don't need AI nonsense in my remote access application. So- The latest version is 15.66.5. Yeah, there you go. So in nine years they have managed to find three 12 to 15 month, you know, feature drops to do

for this software. Which seems to, which seems to, well I can think of things they could add. They could add super low latency like Parsec. That's something they could add. They could add super high bit depth like color for, you know, color accurate work. I don't know. They could add all kinds of things. Yeah, there you go. Perfect. So basically what broke down was them being able to develop compelling reasons for their

customers to continue to upgrade. Absolutely. Yeah. And I you can't you can't just cut those people off. You got to give them something. I think you could not give them more than they had, but you can't just leave them behind. And you could use this as an opportunity of like, hey, you know, use some of that, you know, the email fill where you replace customer with their name and do like you've had the service for X amount of years. We'll give you some like modulated discount based on that if you upgrade to the newest version. This is the free upgrade we're offering you now because we don't want to support that

old version anymore. That seems fine to me. Tell me this, because a big part of my issue, a big part of the reason that after TeamViewer like harassed me once they switched to a software as a service model rather than a perpetual license, they like badgered me. Like I had to call them out on Wanshow to get them to stop emailing me and even calling me if I recall correctly Did they did they call me? I think they come yeah

I think they called you more than once they were bothering me to upgrade to their software as a service subscription model a big part of the reason that I decided to never give them another penny and Never upgrade is that they don't offer a perpetual license anymore If they did we absolutely had remote employees who at the time were using VMs to access our infrastructure so that we didn't have to have other solutions that we have now that give people remote. Yeah, so you would remote into a VM

and that would give you access to the server locally rather than us having a tunnel offsite. Don't worry about it. We have way better stuff now. The point is that there are definitely times that I would have considered upgrading TeamViewer for more features or better multi-monitor support or like whatever, I don't know.

But one of the big reasons that I decided to never give them another penny and never upgrade from 12, and one of the reasons I was so angry about their persistence in badgering me to upgrade was that they didn't offer a perpetual license anymore. Like they gave up on the business model that was successful in extracting $1,000 from me for a version upgrade? For what? So that I will never give them another penny? I mean if they came to me and were like, if they came to me and were like, hey this is unforeseen, we didn't

know that nine years later we would only have three new versions, but how about this we'll do the we'll do a perpetual license with the understanding that it might not be forever forever but it's not a subscription it's I will let's call it five years or something can you give us like can you give us like a grand and we'll get you on the latest version or something like that I'd consider it. I would actually consider it. But what I will not consider is just paying forever for something with no no end. I can't do it unless your name is Adobe, Microsoft, Google. I mean, yeah, am I the unreasonable one? Should I just, should I just take it on the chin on this one? Tell me, like I want to know. No, you

bought a perpetual license. You couldn't on those other services, you know. I mean, technically, I think the problem is actually value, now that I think about it, because you would have had a perpetual license to some of those old versions for Adobe, and Adobe is one of the last companies on earth that I want to sit here and defend. Oh yeah. But, but. But CS6 technically still works. Yep.

And you don't want to use it. You want the new one. Therefore, you'll go get the new one. There you don't want to use it. You want the new one. Therefore, you'll go get the new one. There you go. But CS6 puts absolutely no strain whatsoever on Adobe's infrastructure. Yeah. Because like I said earlier, any time anyone that requires consistent investment in order to provide you a service. Anytime they sell a perpetual license, I squint my eyes a little bit and I question and I wonder what's going on. And sometimes it's explainable.

Sometimes they need a effectively VC style cash injection. Right, yep. And it's like, okay, maybe that makes sense. We've got to get over the next hump. That's still suspicious to me, to be honest, because that makes me question how sustainable this is in the future. But it can make sense, and there are

a bunch of different versions where I've been like, OK, you know what? Sure. At this point in time in your company, it totally makes sense that you need a cash injection. I will buy the thing, because having a perpetual license to me is awesome. I would way rather that than a subscription.

But if I'm looking at a service that I run, like perpetual licenses for flow plane. Oh, that would make no sense. No. Okay. I'm not doing that. We don't need the cash injection. And that would suck for us because they need to maintain that like five years from now. And we're not planning on flow plane going anywhere. So if I know I'm gonna have to maintain it this whole time, it's just going to suck. So tell me this then. Because we've talked a lot about piracy.

A ton. We've had some views on it that largely the community has agreed with. And we've had some views on it that largely the community has not agreed with. And you know what? That's life. Sometimes people agree about things, and sometimes they disagree about them.

I feel that my ownership of a TeamViewer license that was perpetual, that was promised to me as being perpetual, I believe that even if they have changed their terms of service, I'm entitled to pirate their software now. Do you think that... I'm not talking from a legal standpoint. No. But I'm talking from just like my personal moral code standpoint. Justice instead of judicial.

I believe that I am... I would not lose a wink of sleep. I wouldn't question it. If I pirated TeamViewer software now. I wouldn't question it. If I pirated TeamViewer software now. I wouldn't question it at all Obviously for work We like can't do that unless you want to fight legal battles But like on a personal level

No way, so tell me this because this is this is an area that I've always felt is a little bit more gray. Hmm We're actually in the process of helping with the restoration of an old show called reboot. Yeah, watch reboot Okay. Anyway, so it just this is kind of hypothetical. So bear with me for a little bit here guys Because normally you wouldn't have consumer media on a format that is so hard to play back. But it's actually the archival masters of the show that are on a format that is so obscure that Jake Tyvey is kind of managing the project for us on the background. We're kind of like sponsoring the restoration sort of, but also Keoksia is involved. Shout out Keioxia.

Anyway. They seem to decently often be involved in cool things. I know, right? Like I have nothing to do with any of this. This part is not a sponsor for them at all. They just get it. I just, every time I'm like, that sounds like a crazy project. And then I hear like, yeah, and Kioxia is behind it. I'm like, yeah. Kioxia just likes their name attached to like cool s*** as far as I can tell. Yeah, cool. Kyokuse just likes their name attached to like cool shit as far as I can tell. Yeah, cool, sweet, nice.

Easy. So anyway, they reached out and they were like, hey, we need another $7,500 because the only two, I wanna say like read heads or something like that, the only- Okay, I'm not familiar with this. The only two brand new read heads in the world belong to this guy who's like, really old. Want $7,500.

And if we don't get them now, that's basically like it. Oh, because they could estate sale or something. Who knows? You might not know what happens. Who knows? And, and, and anyway, anyway, anyway, what it made me think of when we were going through this Team VeeR topic was like, tell me this, if you bought a copy of some media, and we're getting to the point where, you know, I think you

could make a very strong argument for the coming generation. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Mushroom and fulmin chance at kiosk is the Red Bull of storage. And I just thought that was really kind of makes sense. We're getting to the point where I feel, and I could be wrong about this, but I feel that a generation or two from now could be the first generation for whom media

from like a hundred years ago, like a movie from like a hundred years ago could actually still be like entertaining to watch. Like would you, when you were a kid, when you were a kid in 1990, would you have really consumed any media from 1890? No. Like, I, whereas like, okay, you know, 25, 35,

40 years from now, do you think you could potentially watch, oh man, it's tough, cause like, will everything just be like stereoscopic or like, I don't know. I, for Yvonne, she won't watch anything where the audio quality sucks. So that was like a major turning point in music recordings, like anything from like the 50s,

she won't listen to it because the audio quality is just like not good enough. But as soon as we got into like the 70s, when amplifiers and when tape and when high fidelity recording instruments started to- There's some stuff that I think can stand up. Yeah. So I guess what I'm trying to say is there could come a time when you could have purchased a copy, a license if you will, for a piece of media, say a movie. Let's use a movie as an easy example

because movies are so central to the conversation around piracy, right? So there's a movie that you purchased that is on a format that through no fault of your own, you can no longer play back. Kind of like the tape heads. This is a thing that happens with video games. Sure.

But is in a format that you can no longer play back or access. Would you as the owner of said license, said physical license for it, would you lose any sleep downloading the 18K Blu-ray or whatever, you know, whatever exists in the future. Oh, I see. For that content, knowing, like my TeamViewer license, that it has been upgraded in that time. It's been upscaled or remastered in Dolby Atmos 3

or whatever it is. You kind of get what I'm saying, right? My general action here is that I buy the new thing. You buy the new thing. You buy the new thing. And I see that as if work has been put into it. But I didn't... My problem is, I don't think this is an equivalency because I didn't lose access because of the company's actions that I bought the thing from. Yeah. That's a huge distinct difference. Okay. So we'd have to have a hypothetical where it's some Disney movie and it was on some Disney exclusive physical format that they then EOL'd and like bricked all the players

for. Then I don't... Then that's different. That becomes a little bit more gray. I don't think I would care. I think that one's black and white. I think I would just download the thing. Yeah, okay.

Okay, so basically what we're basically what I'm picking up, what I think you're throwing down, is that, sure, in that case it wasn't any fault of your own, but it also wasn't the fault of the license issuer. So it's a not- Like if I bought a DVD, and they don't make DVD players, but I can't get DVD players anywhere, this isn't true.

Yeah, no, I get it. But if it was true- But it's a no fault, it's an's an accident yeah then I'll buy the new one okay okay but if it is through the actions and false representations of the license issuer then a big you know you yeah pretty much I would also like to point out top IMDB list you've got 1994, 1972, 2008, 1974, 1957. Embarrassingly, I have not seen any of them. You haven't seen The Godfather. We should add that to our movie. We're having movie night tonight. I have a feeling,

if I did, it was a super long time ago, probably with my parents or my dad or something, it's very likely I saw part of it. A lot of my like TV and movie watching forever ago was because my computer was in the room that the TV was in, and I'll be like on the computer playing games or messing around with operating systems or whatever the heck I was doing. So you're printing out pictures.

Pffft! Not when they were home. Uh, uh, uh, uh, um, and watching TV on the side. That's how he got busted once. There was a- Printing out photographs. It was like a spooling issue and it printed the last one out like way later

and I didn't know and it was just still in the tray and my mom found it. I got banned off the computer for like a month. I don't remember the details 100%. Knowing your mom, you're lucky you only got a month. Yeah, there was some That's if I remember correctly, that's why the computer was there right I think it was upstairs Man I'm trying to remember it right now, but anyways

Oh man, I'm trying to remember it right now, but anyways. Yeah, like, dude, once you get to the 90s, it pops off. Yeah. Oh shoot, we're not on your laptop anymore. Forrest Gump, Pulp Fiction, Schindler's List. How watchable are all those movies today? Then again, I mean- Shawshank Redemption. Dude, maybe part of that is just that that was the media of our childhoods. Fight Club.

Like I have a hard time imagining the Lord of our childhoods. Fight Club. Like I have a hard time, I have a hard time imagining the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Good fellas. Like people trying to watch it and just being like, no, no, this is shit, forget it. Ah, apparently this is a problem. Oh no, I mean, my kids can make it through it, but. Yeah, I tend to say.

I just mean four people who, like. Your kids also might be like a little young for it. Yeah, maybe maybe it was my son so he's probably not yeah would it come out in 2001 yeah I fellowshiped the room yeah 2001 so I would've been I did I would have been 15 yeah maybe he's maybe he's a little maybe he's a little young cuz like I knew the heck out of it when I was 15. I loved it and I was- Really? What? You love Lord of the Rings?

I was uh, unless this released after November 12th, I was 10. What the heck? That doesn't make sense Yeah, aging's funny. It's been a long time. No, I just thought I was older when that came out. That's all It seems funny. It's been a long time. I know, I just thought I was older when that came out. That's all. Anyway, in summary. Guess not. Eat shit, team viewer.

I will never give you another cent. Yeah, time to get pirated. Or, alternatively, actually, you just kinda suck now and we'll use something else. Yeah. Yeah. There are- Does that make it less bad? I guess the impact is lower. Yeah, I guess., we haven't really used it in like a long time. No

I still I still use it just out of convenience for one VM That I just like haven't bothered to install something else on Well that I've just a VM that I've just had for like years and years and years that I've just like never bothered to install Something new on you have to figure something out. I mean, it's pretty I'm not just use parsec Yeah, parsec still has a free version of the service. So what I mean by figure something out Yeah, and I think don't we have corporate parsec anyway? Yeah. Yeah, so like whatever So, okay. Here's a question Why am I willing to pay a subscription to parsec?

They didn't change the deal on you. Also that. Interesting. But we would and you didn't... I didn't actually know that. Yeah. Interesting. But they didn't change the deal. They didn't alter the deal. This was the deal. That's true. And they offered something that the competing service didn't. Extremely low latency. Yeah. Which during COVID, when we added it to our infra, was essential for getting our videos edited when the office was effectively a quarantine zone.

It's got great multi-monitor support as well. It didn't in the early days. We played video games over it. We played tape to tape. Yep. Over Parsec. And like, the latency was fine. Good. Alright.

What's next? What do you want to talk about next, Mr. Luke? Ummm... Let's see here... We're on topic two. Steam? Steam? Steam? Steam? Steam? Really? You think that one's that big of a deal? Okay. I just think it's cool. Let's talk about it.

I'm not even... I don't even necessarily want the fight. No, let's talk about it. You don't even necessarily want the fight. No, let's talk about it. I just think it's cool. You don't want the fight? You don't want the fight? I wouldn't fight him. I didn't even have to stand up. I wouldn't fight him.

You didn't get that much higher than me. Wow. And my seat's down. Wow. Wow. All right, Steve wants you to know about fake frames the steam client beta was updated earlier this week with Improved performance monitoring which is super cool I saw the notification for this but I didn't have a ton of time to look into it because this week was Very busy for me the old in-game FPS counter tell them what you were doing this week

Is that a thing? I can tell them the one, but I don't know if... Do we want to announce that one? We shot Scrapyard Wars 10. We did. It was epic. The premise was genuinely amazing. Okay, anyway, carry on.

Anyways, yeah, the Steam Client Beta was updated earlier this week with improved performance monitoring. The old in-game FPS counter has been updated into the in-game overview. Anyways, yeah, the Steam Client Beta was updated earlier this week with improved performance monitoring. The old in-game FPS counter has been updated into the in-game overlay performance monitor. Adding more detailed information about frame rates, frame generation, CPU and GPU performance and more. Try it yourself by enabling the Client Beta by going to settings and then in game. In other Steam news, Valve has introduced what it says are first of many accessibility tools as other stuff.

Why don't we talk about this first? Let's do that. So you think that this is a really big deal and I don't necessarily disagree, but I just want to hear your take about how big of a deal it is that they have more detailed information about FrameGen specifically, I think is what you were sort of focused on. Again, I haven't personally actually dove into this yet. I'm hoping it also has frame time stuff,

but I just really like back in the day, needing to get fraps and all these other kinds of things to figure out what the heck was going on. Having this built into Steam is really cool. And having a tool built into Steam where you can learn more about what's heck was going on. Having this built into Steam is really cool. And having a tool built into Steam where you can learn more about what's happening to your system. Looking at this long enough.

Because like, there's all these videos and people talking about trying to figure out like, oh, like what is the impact? Why does my game feel kind of weird right now? Yeah. Because people playing competitive shooters dealing with frame gen stuff. I'm not necessarily like, like I said,

I don't necessarily want the fight. I don't actually really care so much about the fake frames versus real frames war. The part of that that I do care about is when it's highly misrepresented. And we've seen that a lot in like the Nvidia presentations and stuff. But the technology by itself is super cool

in the right scenarios. Why does marketing have to ruin everything? Yeah, it's just marketed horribly because it's false promises, really. It's a cool tech on its own. Yeah, like even multi-frame gen. It's a cool tech on its own. It has a place and it has a purpose.

Cinematic single player games. Yeah, as long as they're not too fast paced. Yep, sometimes it's a problem. And as long as the base performance is enough. But, tools like this, make it so that you can turn it on, see how many fake frames are happening, evaluate the game, play it a little bit,

see how it feels, dial things in. Like it's just, it's another cool, useful tool. I love these types of things. I love, you know, like tools for nerds. What does Google call it? Stats for geeks. I love stuff like that. Give me more tools. I'm gonna poke around and you try things. I'm excited to just see with ease on anyone's system what's kind of going on. Like if somebody's like, oh yeah, I'm trying to play this game, but like, aiming feels sluggish for some reason.

Or like, I feel like I'm on target, I'm not hitting people or whatever. We can like, now we have another tool to try to evaluate. You can also do like, you know, screen record and slow it down to see like, maybe you just suck. That's possible. But those tools already exist.

Have you tried getting good? I think this is sweet. We actually have a direct appeal to Valve. Valve does so much cool stuff that just generally makes gamers' lives better and easier. And there's one tool that I feel they have neglected over a long period of time that I really want to see them update. We have a new edition of the most average PC build coming. So are you familiar with the series?

I think so. This is number three or four, I can't remember. But it's updated to 2025's version or the recent 2025 release of the Steam Hardware Survey. And the Steam Hardware Survey is an invaluable tool for determining what exactly it is that gamers have in their systems. It does a great job both for people who are configuring gaming PCs to be able to look through and figure out, okay, what's the norm? What should I kind of be targeting to play games that developers are likely to be building their games around? And then it's also great for developers because it gives them a really great idea, especially

over time, of what the changing trends are in hardware configurations out there so that as they're developing their games and their performance targets, they know what kind of hardware that Steam gamers have. And while it does a pretty good job of the granularity of certain components, like GPUs for instance, you can see exactly which model of GPU in many cases, sometimes the mobile ones kind of get mixed in, but minor stuff, you know. For things like CPUs, they just tell you how many cores and what clock speed range. Like, we're talking like, net burst era of information here.

So one of the examples that Elijah gives in the videos, he goes, well, okay, six cores clocked between this and this. That could either be this 12th gen CPU or this Xeon from 10 years ago. They literally both fit the bill. We're gonna assume it's more like the new one, but come on. I still can't know.

This is the point we're trying to make, and some of the information they have on monitors, for instance, really good, really useful. We know what resolution people are running, that's great. What refresh rate are they running? As a game developer, I might wanna know that. As a gamer who's just trying to figure out the competition out there, I might wanna know,

hey, am I falling behind a little bit right now because I'm one of the only people still running a 60 hertz monitor? Which, to be clear, that's not the case, but it is changing. High refresh rate monitors are becoming more prevalent. How prevalent? I don't know. Yeah, it would be nice to know.

If the Valve Hardware Survey had it in there, then that would be great. And for us in the media, it also helps us to tailor our content to whatever people are most likely to be having questions about. You know, as there's a big transition to 1440p right now. Yep. So, okay, we're looking at that going, alright, so we should do like a 1440p monitors buying guide or whatever the case may be. The Steam Hardware Survey is an invaluable tool. It's one that they have, that they publish for free for everybody to use.

Which is wild. Which is great, but also self-serving because it's to help developers and gamers meet together on Steam. So make it better. There's some key ways that the Steam hardware survey needs to improve, and so we kind of appeal to Valve's generosity, I guess, because that's the only reason they have to do anything now that they're just a money printing machine,

and ask them to bestow upon us mere mortals a better version of the hardware survey. I don't remember how we got in the subject. I think you know a couple people there. I do, but they're Valve people, so like, they're great, and do whatever the f*** they want, I think. Yeah. I don't know. Like, I know their company's super flat,

and there's these rumors that I've heard that you can like kind of work on whatever which is clearly not a hundred percent true Or else nothing would ever happen. Yeah, like I have contacts there that are clearly in like a role. Yeah You know, they have a job title and stuff. Like customer support tickets are still answered. Yeah, and if that was purely elective just like No one's ever gonna do it. So like they sure I love answering customers. Okay, sure I used to pitch in when things were really busy at NCIX. I still do. Yeah, fair enough part of life I don't I don't exactly love it, but you know But

On that dark day When gaben's light finally fades, what do you think's gonna happen? I have no idea. I think a lot of the reasons why Valve has been so based, and you know, I sometimes bark at their 30% and stuff like that, but they have overall. Been a force for good.

Absolutely. For the most part. Yeah. They take a lot of the pie. Yeah, I think they do good stuff. I think I do think that Gaben just like not needing any more super yachts is a big part of why they just don't bother to try to squeeze more money. Yeah, like nothing. As far as I can tell, nothing prevents valve from upping their cut to 35%. But I even now like 50 you look at the handheld market and they could have just gone with far as I can tell, nothing prevents Valve from upping their cut to 35%.

But not even that, like you look at the handheld market and they could have just gone with Windows, but they didn't. Yeah. And they did a ton of work in order to not. And like you look at what's happening with, with Bazite and stuff now. And it's like, wow. They are really pushing this forward in a way that nobody has. I don't know, they do cool stuff.

I wish they made more games still. I know people talk about Half-Life all the time, but like, give me another Portal. I don't know. I'd enjoy another Portal. I'd play it, but. It's co-op. I love the heck out of portal one

And I felt like portal two was rehashing a lot of the same territory I don't see what portal three would bring to the table more co-op. Yeah Yeah, anyway in other news Valve is introducing what it says are the first of many accessibility tools to steam and steam OS players using big Picture and SteamOS will get a text size slider, high contrast mode, a reduce motion toggle to disable some animations and screen transition effects,

and in addition, SteamOS devices, so Steam Deck and Legion Go S, for now, will gain a customizable screen reader, a color filter that affects both the Steam UI and in-game graphics, and they can choose between, oh, and you can find all this in the new accessibility tab in your Steam settings. I'm really surprised they didn't already have, like, high contrast mode and stuff. Classic Valve. The only thing that's surprising about them being based is that they weren't already that based.

Alright, Dan, what are we supposed to be doing? That's pretty good. Why don't we do a couple of merch messages and announcements? All right, let's do that. Merch messages are the way to interact with the show. If you're going to throw money at your screen the way we see it, you should get high quality merchandise in return. So all you got to do is go over to lttstore.com, throw some cool stuff in your cart, and then head to the checkout where you will see a box that prompts you to leave a merch message.

And look at that. We have a WAN show special on lttstore.com right now. This is the, which site is this? So this is the US site, I guess. Yes, we are on the US site. So we have the precision screwdriver and the precision bit set each for $30, or we have the precision bundle for 59.99.

And then if we go to the global region, 64.99 Canadian dollars for the precision bundle. So you guys can go ahead and throw that in your cart. And then you can leave a merch message. It will go to producer Dan, who will send it to someone who can answer your question, answer it himself, sometimes maybe not that accurately, but certainly comedically and or send it to.

It's called dodging the question. Me and Luke as a curated merge message. Dan, do you wanna show them what curated merge messages look like? Sure, let's see, first one up here. What can be done to combat AI generated content on YouTube that uses AI to impersonate other people's voices to imply that the person is saying this content

when really they are not? It's everywhere. I mean, there's a lot of conversation. There's a lot of very plausible solutions. You know, one solution would be that any AI generated media should have fingerprinting built into it so that platforms like YouTube could read that fingerprinting and see that it's AI generated and flag it as such. Unfortunately, now that Pandora's box is kinda open and not every actor is interested

in having their AI generated content fingerprinted, the horses has bolted from the barn, the cat's out of the bag, the ship has sailed, the, there's pretty much nothing we can do to un-release AI into the world with no safeguards, no clear markings whatsoever on it. Yeah, it's rough. It would be kind of neat if... See, I don't know, because I feel like they're embracing it, but I was going to say it would be kind of neat if YouTube started using AI to detect AI and just kind of mass-band it It's YouTube, it's not AITube. Maybe if you can get your thing approved somehow,

oh, that gets really tough. Because I don't think mass ban actually makes sense. I want to walk that back. It's got to be impersonation. So they'd have to like oh I don't know how they do it Like we we could count on the I don't know yeah, we do. I don't know we could count on the We could count on the detection to continue to get better, but as it does Generational get better and wait until somebody just has like

Really unique like like a medical condition or something. And they get flagged. And then you get that Twitter thread about like. Oh. So that doesn't work at all. I could totally see that happening. That doesn't work at all. Especially with like kind of bad lighting

and like a low resolution camera or something like that. Yep. That would be insane. And there are acceptable usages of it, right? It's mostly impersonation that we're complaining about right now, which sounds like an incredibly fair thing to complain about. Yeah, Legacy Uprising said like all the Joe Rogan ads that aren't him. Yeah, Mr. Beasts tons of scams that aren't him. Well, I was what was it six months ago or something? The whole site was Tesla. Yeah. Everything's computer. Wait, sorry. Everything's Tesla. Sorry, wait. Should we talk about should we talk about Trump phone? Yeah? Yeah, we'll do another merch message after Dan

That was that was just too irresistible of a transition On June 16th Don Trump jr. And Eric Trump along with the Trump mobile team unveiled T1 mobile and the Trump phone and this is a it's called T1 mobile I know right no but doesn't isn't uh man what's his name um darn it summit is summit like pissed I don't know summit t1 one t1g was it 1 Yeah, I don't know what are you talking about? Doesn't T one refer to something? Alright, this is a quote. Tyler one. Oh sure. Tyler one's gotta be. I don't know This is a quote a

transformational new cellular service designed to deliver top-tier connectivity unbeatable value and all American service for our nation's hardest working people. They are offering 5G service through all three major cellular carriers. Subscribers to the 47 plan, which is $47.45 a month, gain the following unlimited talk, text and data, complete device protection, that's in quotes. 24-7 roadside assistance through Drive America. Telehealth services. Free international calling to more than 100 countries, including many with American military bases to help honor the families who are bravely serving

in our military abroad, that's a quote. And no contracts and no credit check They're also touting a customer service call center based in the USA They got a couple of different options here. You can bring your own phone or you can pre-order a Trump phone the Made in the USA T1 phone 8002 gold version Okay, this is where things get pretty interesting let's head on over to trump mobile dot com Oh Lordy no I don't need to subscribe to whatever this is I love no I think I'll I think I'll pass I love the the picture can we compare to like any other cellular service like

Name one T mobile T mobile. Let's see. Let's that's home internet Mobile's website Phone there's some people hanging out More phones somebody with a phone a scooter or something More phones. Somebody with a phone, a scooter or something. Some people... Well that's not a serious mobile network. This is a serious mobile network.

Engage the action plan! Yeah! Alright, let's check out the T1 phone. Key features. There you go. Proudly made in America, right here in the USA with care, precision and top quality materials to deliver a product you can trust. $500.

$500. Okay, fingerprint sensor, AI face unlock. What else we got here? Avocados Diaboli in full plane chat said their site took down their coverage map because it didn't label Gulf of Mexico's Gulf of America I don't know if that's true or not but that's hilarious if it is oh no they're still so wait what so it's a it's a service and it's a phone and it's a service that goes through other people's services?

They're still working on some stuff. When I checked out the Verge article on it earlier, it pointed out some errors on the site that appear to have not been corrected yet. They still don't know the difference between memory and storage. Oh. What are some of the other issues here? Actually, it's not some of the stuff. Some of the stuff might be a little bit better. Oh wow, you can call? Should I call? Yeah, we gotta think about what you want to say first.

I think I have to call. I just want to ask how I can I want to ask how I can know that this phone is made in America All right Dude, I don't remember the last time that I saw a phone number advertised with like t9 In it But can you do you is that oh that this is such a boomer? Some where it will show both versions But I've never seen one where it only shows the t9. I'm calling the line. Yeah, they literally don't even show the okay. Hold on speaker Because

Hello, it's even dialing Hello Even dialing Now can you literally like not even call it if you're outside the US It didn't even work put one in front I did You totally did I'm not new Okay, hold on is there do they have do they have like an alternate non one eight eight number Okay here I'll try support need help you're in the right place she'll help you yes

Just from wait what Saturdays from 8 a.m.. To 1 p.m.. Oh Okay, oh, you know what they're closed. They're closed closed I think they closed 20 minutes ago totally did but why why should probably have their phone tell you that yeah why did it just hang up there new okay okay you know what they're changing the world Dan one step at a time Dan this seems like a thing that you could probably help with. Next week, can we start the show by calling Trump mobile and can we have like a Google voice line or something with a US number? Is that the kind of thing that Dan is capable of? It seems like the kind of thing Dan is very capable of. Oh yeah. Look at it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He knows. This guy knows. Anyway, so what was also interesting from the Verge article is that as far as they could

tell, the whole, this phone is made in America thing appears to be complete nonsense. There are only renders on the website. No physical units have been spotted. They didn't list the website. No physical units have been spotted. They didn't list the processor. I believe there is a similar looking Chinese phone, although that's actually not in our doc, so maybe this is very much like developing right now. There was a similar-ish looking Chinese phone, but I don't see that in our doc. And this is fun. Eric Trump says the phone will be built in the US eventually now eventually yeah the site doesn't say anything about it

being built in the US eventually Okay. This is amazing. I'm checking out a Reddit thread because I'm trying to verify this whole Gulf of Mexico thing. Yeah. So I'm reading a Reddit thread and this guy linked. Oh my God. There's so many fun gaffes somebody said there there is zero phones made in America and somebody replied saying there is one

Linux phone that has awful specs that starts at 2k called the Liberty phone. I looked it up and yeah 1.5 gigahertz quad core Wow 720 by 1440 display. that wow that thing is horrible I mean it has Wi-Fi 6.2 grand Yikes but things like if you you know if you manufacture there it's gonna cut look at that thickness it's got a it's got a headphone jack though. Is it USB-C? I can't tell. Looks like it I'm not certain but it looks like it

PD yeah USB C. Okay Man, I kind of want one now. I kind of want to I've kind of want to try it Outfitted with hardware kill switches. All right here. That's kind of cool. That is kind of cool. I Like that you can do that with the camera the mic. Yeah, I kind of want to try it I mean, I'm sure it's like terrible but That's pretty cool Yeah, anyways Manufacturing things like phones and it's hold on a second someone posted in chat what they think is the the model of phone that the Trump t1

Phone is just a second just second. I'm gonna pull this up. Thanks float playing chat having a look here Apparently, oh no, this doesn't look the same. Guys, that does not look the same at all. The render on the Trump mobile site has like three cameras and I don't know. Yeah, I mean, other than that, phones just kind of like look like phones, I guess. Yeah, that's, I don't know what you're talking about.

Okay, so there's some gaffes. The terms of use page appears to be basically copied from Liberty Mobile. The privacy policy was also likely copied and allows data collection from searches, web browsing device and location for its AI systems. And it has collected complete account credentials whatever that means and mail email and text message content over the past 12 months what does that even mean

wait what oh you read that past tense correctly they didn't spend much time editing when they copied it oh my gosh there's no refunds and yes it looks like the phone is made in china refunds and yes it looks like the phone is made in China but then they're saying it's the revel 7 Pro but like oh is that just the only phone that has the same specs and then these renders are just like maybe these are just like random random renders of what could kind of look like a phone are there any other pictures like this is like this is clearly just like these these curves don't even align. Like what are you even what are you even talking about? Like this is obviously not real. Why is there a pretend home button here? Is this is the

idea that they're showing where a fingerprint sensor might be or like what? but sad. That's all I have to say about that. Are you going to get one? I mean, I don't think realistically anyone is going to get one. So no, but I think people might get a phone. You think so? I have no idea idea but they might have a phone at some point Level 6 Pro 5g somebody said I am just I am I am I am mind boggled by just how Just like obviously fake, you know stuff is that certain people, you know do and you know, stuff is that certain people, you know, do,

and how obviously, like, you know, constantly lying certain people are, and how not noticing many people are. This time it'll work out. Mm, this time will be different. And if not this one, then next one. Then next time. Yep. Mind boggling. Maybe you're a time three better

That's pretty long view though. You gotta wait a while for that. Yeah, I mean I'll pre-order one cuz just like Whatever arrives whatever it is. It's gonna be hilarious one way or another Somebody said all in on trump coin, it reminded me. I thought I had a, what was my idea? You wanted us to do Linus coin, but like backed by the gold standard. Yeah, yeah. Stop.

I'm pretty sure that's already a thing. I'm pretty sure there's already a crypto coin. I'm really not in that space. Crypto coin, gold backed. There's no way nobody thought of this. Gold backed stable coins are asset backed stable coins that have physical gold as their underlying asset. They're based to gold making them a less volatile financial instrument. That's a quote, I am reading that, I don't necessarily agree with that

thing that I just read. Because a stable coin you're basically taking somebody's word for it. That no no yeah, no yeah, no yeah. I bought all that gold. So there's a few. One of them actually lists out the amount of gold bars that they have and stuff. Are they telling the truth? I don't know. I don't know. I mean, why would they lie about it? I mean, I'm sure they're a strong Christian with good values and would never be a scammer.

That's a reference to something. It's a reference to something. Yeah. Let me just put it this way. We filmed Scrapyard Wars this week and I ran into some scammers. Yeah. I heard this. I don't want to spoil. I don't want to spoil much. I don't want to spoil, I don't want to spoil anything actually, it's going to be a great series. But I ran into some scammers. And I definitely had- People are saying when, probably not for a while. Oh, it's gonna be a strap-in for a wait

Here's the thing right guys because on the one hand we're gonna have the people that are like give me the first episode give it to me now And on the other hand you're gonna have the people that will get that first episode and then realize that the second episode isn't coming for like, you know three weeks or a month or whatever and be like Why did they pre-edit all of it? Yeah, schedule the releases so there's no way for us to really yeah Really win we'll do our best I think we're gonna aim for like a week or two in between and I think that like previous scrapyard wars We're probably gonna have early access on Float Plane. So, LMG.GG slash Float Plane. Let's go. Pump it up.

Alright. Dan, where did we leave off? Oh, we were in the middle of announcements. Okay, I specifically wear in the middle. We just explained the merch messages. You explained the merch messages. We did a merch message. You showed that we have a deal on the precision screwdriver bundle. Really? And that was about it.

Oh, okay, what else is there? We are on CW announcements. Yeah, the final, the very top of that. Yeah, just start with the red. Oh, wow, look at this. Do you wanna show the link? Yep. Okay folks it might have taken a few years but yeah but we finally did it. It doesn't work. Oh is there not a link? Nope. Uh-oh.

But the... Should I call someone? What does the link go to? The forum to the forum oh that is not good I will try a thing dang it well Do you want to see if you yeah, no that definitely goes to the forum yep? Technical difficulties There better is there someone to call her put her one I I don't know I I don't know who to talk to Conrad's got us Okay, got us. Thanks Conrad. We're gonna have to change it. I got I'm on it. Okay. No key also knows

It's in the full plane. Yeah, okay. Okay.. We go here. We go. We are finally ready to announce Go ahead throw it you coward all right fine Are you gonna bring up your screen? This is painful there we go there it is the transparent screwdriver! Good job everybody! That's right my friends, the very first ratcheting screwdriver that allows you to see the ratchet mechanism in all of its glory! Is this world first?

I think so, who else would make this? That's so cool. You can also see the bit storage through the handle. It looks freaking sweet. We used them all week for Scrabod Wars and they were awesome. It is launching next Friday on June 27th and you can sign up to be notified at lttstore.com slash transparent.

Dude, it's kinda cool that you can check if you have the right bit without even pulling it out. That's kinda sick. I never actually did that the whole time. People are asking, does it yellow? That is a super duper, super duper question. One moment please. I will, who do I wanna, who can I bug about this?

You know what the person I'm thinking of may still be like on route and therefore maybe not too bothered if I bother them oh man I love teams so much I love waiting like 23 minutes for my call to be placed How is teams like this Luke? This is the company that bought Skype They bought Skype. How does it take this long to even try to connect a call? It's still not trying to connect the call

This is the most disastrous product launched since the Cybertruck, or announcement rather. Oh, there we go. But hello, sir? Is this working? I have no audio. This is why we need Trump phone. What even, exactly.

The Trump phone T1 wouldn't have this problem. There we go. Sorry for the PTSD, everyone who uses Teams at work. Oh boy. Why is it randomly louder sometimes? Did you hear it? Or ran- I hear it. I have heard it the whole time. I hate teams. I hate teams. There's a reason why the software dev teams are still on Slack.

I couldn't find a replacement. Okay, well. Alright, alright, alright, alright, alright. Well, okay. I don't know if it yellows. So probably not, but who knows. Some people are saying they're not seeing the sign up portion of the forum to be clear. It should be right there at the bottom in the white box. If you're not seeing it, pause your ad blocker, please.

Oh hey, got him. What was I supposed to be talking about? Oh, right, right, right. People had some questions about it. One of the- No, sorry. Somebody misinterpreter me. I did not say teams devs are still on Slack.

I'm saying our devs are still on Slack. Our dev team. Thanks. There was one other thing I wanted to talk about real quick. One of the big issues that delayed the development of this was the durability of the plastic. So there are lots of different transparent plastics. So anyone in chat who is sharing their wisdom about the characteristics of transparent plastics can just not because there are many different plastics that can be transparent and they have vastly

different characteristics. So what now, plastic knowers? Pretty much, actually though, pretty much. Better not to make assumptions. And one of the big issues that we were running into in the development of this was getting something that met the durability expectations of our LTT screwdriver customers. Another major one was down to the quality of the plastic flow in the mold. And we don't really have the tightest camera angle on me here, but we had this like, these kinds of seams that were forming as the plastic made its, the molten plastic made its way through the mold and then it would kind of like flow around a thing and then come

together. Oh good it's Kyle thank goodness now I don't have to try to do this myself. Hello Mr. Theret you are live on the WAN show. Hello? Let me put you in speaker. Hello WAN show can you hear me? You're not actually the one who has to put your phone on speaker for the WANhow to hear you, but... Well, I need to put my speaker on so I can hear you, mate. Yeah, that makes sense. Perfect. They want to know if the clear plastic will yellow. Linus got there eventually.

In our testing, no. Okay, and what did we do to test that? It's the same plastic that Nelgene bottles are made. Got it. Interesting. We're saying that publicly. Are we allowed to say that publicly? No. What? Are you there? Um. Okay, bye. Yeah, my reception is terrible because I moved away from my router. Okay, uh, wow. Okay, cool. Okay. Um, thank you, Kyle. What? Wait, are we? Are sorry, I might have misheard you. Are we allowed to say that it's the same plastic as the bottles? It's it's made. It's the plastic it's made from is Triton.

Okay? Triton is a similar plastic that is used in Nelgene. I don't know if I got cut off, I got misheard, but at least that's our understanding. It's similar. I don't think that's Nelgene who explains that on their website. Okay, okay, thank you. That was very helpful. Yeah, thanks.

Okay, and any other characteristics I can share with the people? So we believe it is non-yellowing. Nalgene does say that they use Triton. Okay, they say they use Triton. They use Triton Renew. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, I'm not saying anything that's like super secret, right? I'm just making sure, dude, you never, you never know. Okay, come on man, tell me that you've never encountered a company being cagey about the

materials they use, like. Okay, that, you know what, that is Tell me that you've never encountered a company being cagey about the materials they use. Okay, you know what? That is fair. That is fair. Alright, okay. Any other cool stuff that we can say about it? It's stronger than Triax, our previous plastic. Okay. It's a pain to injection mold. Yeah, I took so long Yeah, another three years screwdriver project What's the next three years screwdriver project I don't want to I don't want to think about that right now

All right Thanks Kyle appreciate you Man he was really transparent about that Press the thing you gotta do it I don't feel good For sure He's used to like to bash things on the table for table Covered in skins now. Yeah, not bad. Is there anything?

The bits came loose I mean that kind of makes sense. All right, what else we got? We have oh we have any pack of individual magnetic cable management components for $14.99. And then we have the, oh, the precision screwdriver bundle thing. Apparently they've updated the pricing. And the last thing that we have for our Wancho deal is the Pet Cave is back.

Oh. Pricing reboot. Retro monitor pet caves are available with a Wanshoe special price for a limited time only. So you guys can go check those out. These are so cute. Agreed. My cats actually legitimately love theirs.

These are like one of our best reviewed products ever. It's just like five star, five star, five star, five star, four star, five, five, five, five, five, four, five, five, five. Oh, cute. Someone included a picture of their pet. Yeah, right? Surprisingly few people use the photo upload feature

of our review function. It's like, it's an awesome, awesome feature and I'm shocked at how few people use it. That's flippin' awesome. You love to see it. This is one that I do think gets a greater proportion of photos uploaded though just because. That makes sense.

Like if we find even one more that'll be more than people normally upload. I never see photos. Yeah. Is that, is that only the one? I could have sworn there was another person who uploaded a photo. Do they like expire or something? I don't think so. I don't know. Anyway. All right. Cool. All right. What else are we supposed to be talking about here? How about a merch message? Sure, yeah, hit me Dan. Hey guys, can you comment on what's happening in Greece?

A new anti-piracy law that finds anyone watching pirated content, 750 euros, the base monthly income here, other than using a VPN, what can we do? What? Seriously? How did I not hear about that? How does it even work? Yeah, how does it? What? Greece anti-counter. Might not be true. Maybe you heard of it? Two months ago? Grease has strengthened its blah blah blah blah. Oh no he's using the AI overview No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no time for us to turn the WAN show into AI slop. Let's go goodness

Let's go I'm here for it Or am I am I even real look at this hair It doesn't even look real. So yeah, it's It sounds like it's a thing as far as I can tell I'm not finding like a lot of Super official stuff So they introduce a framework to find

IP pirate TV Like the user stuff it seems to be more like Like streaming like if you start a streaming pirate service. Or watch it. Yeah, finding the users is a new step that I don't think I have seen yet. Very interesting. From any other government.

Going after the administrators of these pirate streaming services, yeah, that we've seen before. There was a really interesting case I was reading about recently where, I think it was a couple of Americans, were just like running a like pirate streaming service out of like a few locations, including like having racks in their house and stuff like that. Okay.

Don't do that. I mean, yeah, you know, try to at least have some plausible denies. Or have a really ready to go sprinkler system. Actually, that won't do it. Finding the user is a heck of a step because that puts the onus on the user to determine whether they are subscribing to a legitimate service or not. And I could actually see a lot of users, quite frankly, no offense, not being sophisticated enough

to tell the difference between a real, legit streaming service and a very legit looking pirate streaming service. Which is a thing now. Like how would they necessarily know I? Like this good plausible deniability I'm serious you have known no I'm actually serious though like how would I know bill's streaming service is not licensing I'm actually from it like charge you which yeah, which and people don't like let's make this very clear a lot of these users

Who could be fined, theoretically, I mean, we're obviously just finding out about this right now. Yeah, we don't know all the details. I'm not finding amazing sources. Theoretically, these users could conceivably be fined for using a service that, as far as they can tell, is legit because they are paying for it.

So that's how a lot of the piracy streaming services work is they're not actually, their users are not necessarily pirates per se, if that makes sense, or at least not knowingly, but what's appealing about these services is that they have such a broad content library for one low streaming fee. It's almost like we solved content piracy not that long ago with just the one low monthly

fee and it kind of including everything that you wanted to watch. Remember that? There was a thing. What was it? Fennix? New Flix? Fennlix? Flixen? Netbox. I can't remember what it is. I don't think it's

gonna come to me. Net ticket. But that's what I would at least I would imagine that's what a lot of these users would think that they're signing up for is just like oh finally someone who's not gonna gouge me. But if they, 750 euros as a fine, that is considerable. Like I could even see having like a minor infraction fine, like a $30 ticket or something like that, for, hey, don't do that or whatever because you're talking about individual users right we're not talking about commercial

entities 750 euro is a flipping ton of money massive pretty crushing especially in the context of and I don't I haven't validated the you know the typical income increase or whatever I don't actually know if that's the case but assuming it's true for now assuming that's true that very crushing I mean that that's that's like that's like finding what like probably somewhere in the neighborhood of like 4,000 4500 Canadian dollars or something like that Like I think that I think median income is around 4,500 CAD right now Per month. Yeah, come after tax. I know I think that. Per month? Yeah, per month. After tax? No, I think that's pre-tax.

Yeah, okay. But then if the fine... The fine's after tax. Yeah, that I don't know. We don't have all the details from letting you send the message. That's wild, man! Man, how awesome would that be if, like, fines were tax deductible? I'm sure if you're a big enough corporation, you can figure out the accounting map to make that work.

What a goodness. I don't think as an individual you'd get away with it. Yeah. Gross. Okay, what else we got? I put some more topics. Sorry, I'm fixing a problem here I've got some more topics. Sorry, I'm fixing a problem here.

No, not more topics. There's another thing in there. I don't remember what it was, because my computer's being annoying right now, but I'm fixing it. Okay, you can show us your multi-monitor setups for a chance to win a new LG Smart Monitor Swing. There's a pinned post on the subreddit. If you guys go check that out. Submit your janky weird setups, or if you wanna go that extra mile, tell us how you'd use the LG Smart Monitor Swing to take your setup to the next level. You can learn more about the LG Smart Monitor Swing here.

Doopity doop doop. Yep, that's a smart monitor swing, all right. Look at it go. That's a smart monitor swing. All right, look at it go That's a lot of degrees Well, it can go the other way. Oh cable management inside. Oh, it's kind of nice. Cool. All right, and then is there one last thing here? Flow plane. Oh, yeah Oh, you got it seven foot four inches Wait, that's gotta be this actually says seven inches four so

Those are two measurements more passionate when you're saying this okay? Handsome seven inches four jacked rich These are only some words used to describe Sammy our video production specialist who focuses on our social media and floatplane exclusives and he Just released his meet the team what Linus don't leak. I said this, please Am I looking at here? Oh yeah, here it is.

Meet the team, Sammy You. All right, what else is there to say here? There's also one of the funniest moments of Why Is Wan Late. I've watched it like three times. Also uploaded as a floatplane clip. Watch here for as long as you want. What do you mean watch here for as long as you want? Okay, Dan do I have audio?

Okay, oh Wait, hold on Clearly whoever was on this account watched it as well. Oh wait. Well, where am I supposed to go? I don't know. I'm assuming the beginning watch here for as long as you want. Okay Hold on. Hold on. Okay. I can't hear Dan Okay, hold on hold on So Luke thought he beat me, but he was parked illegally Dude you're like jump to the stairs dude you're looking at oh, I was flying you're booking it I love how it takes so long for the exposure to change that I'm just like at the end

Booking it. I love how it takes so long for the exposure to change that I'm just like at the end. Oh my God. Wait, where are you going? Oh, I remember this. Yeah. So I'm showing off parking spot number two that I shouldn't park in. Why did you go at WAN? You'll be at WAN. I knew we had no spots available. Wait, where's he? Where does he think he's going now?

Where does he think he's going? I was calculating You're trying to run me over in reverse No no no no no I was I was trying to see if I could make this You guys ended up spotting it I knew I took the last spot

He's just ripping it Do you think he could have tried to get in here? Oh, he can. He could have maybe gotten in, but he wouldn't have been able to get out. So I had the same. Yeah. I'm telling him I'm winning. Why is Wan late? Because he was parked in the handicap stop. Oh, you can't do that. You can't do that. You can't do that. So I think Luke is the main one here.

He has 14 seconds to be here. Out of the park? Where's he coming from? I think he's on the street. He went running that way! Right from that way! You can't do that. I can't do what? Parking the handicaps ball. I'm running that way, running from that way! Hahahaha Hahahaha

You can't do that, I can't do what? Parking the handicap spot Oh I know I didn't It's only been a handicap spot since we moved into this building almost 11 years ago I haven't worked out of this building for so long

for so long I think I haven't actually worked on this building since like 2018 That's hilarious. You think about it. I Love it anyway Meet our most handsome hard-working high IQ charitable chivalrous ambitious Dripped out skippity employee at LMG dot GG slash floatplane He once lent me one of his seven Lambos when I was stranded. Super chill guy.

What a chill guy. All right. Thank you for that, Sammy. I don't know if him repeatedly saying don't leak it is him like trying to get us to leak it or if... A hundred percent. So are we supposed to leak it then? Leak what? I said all the stuff that he wrote.

No, like the video that you wrote. Oh, no, not that one. The Meet Sammy one. Oh, no, no, we can let them watch that. Okay. Yeah, the people can watch. It's good. Of course it is. Colton interviews him and honestly, I think he did a great job. Really?

Yep. Oh, that's cool. I haven't watched it yet. Yep. All right. What do you want to talk about next? Uh. Should we talk about Float Plane doing a thing? Yeah, sure. Let's do it.

Where's that topic? Is there any, yeah, just talk about it, I guess. Yeah, so Float Plane did a thing. This is something that had been like very minorly leaked in the past, not a lot, but some people kind of picked up. We've also been teasing it a lot. Like if you guys have seen Luke like show me something on his phone, but be like, oh, we can't tell the people about it for pretty much the last like six months almost. It's usually that. It's usually something to do with this deal that's been ongoing in the

background for quite some time. Can I flip over to your screen? Yeah. So, sauceplus.com. You might recognize the name sort of because it's very close to Open Sauce. So, we're working with Open Sauce. You might know William Osmond's convention. It's a company, which is why I'm referring to it as open sauce, because we're working with a variety of people. And they have some other creators that they're bringing on. You might recognize this guy, he has a channel on the platform as well. And I believe there's more creators coming in the future. And one of the big things that they're pushing is some exclusive shows, including Scare the

Coyote, which I watched and it's very fun. It's relatively similar to another show that I like a lot so it was kind of a shoo-in for me enjoying it. But yeah, very cool especially if you're interested and into the the creators that are on it and if you want a, if you want to know more about it on William Osmond's YouTube channel there is I probably could have prepped this part but yeah there's this video we made a show scare the code episode 1 and you can go check that out and he'll talk more about it. Yeah. We've got a question from NoKey. Yes. Why not just integrate this into Flowplane as a channel like many other

channels have? That was an option we offered that. They wanted their own thing. They have some of their own ideas of how they want to kind of take stuff and how they want to work with different creators. It is a one fee for the whole platform model, which is interesting how they end up kind of divvying that up. We're on the tech side of things. We are hosting the service. We developed the service. You will notice even the front page is like, float plane related.

I think theirs looks a little better than ours, but it's related. And if you go into the service, the service looks quite similar, but we're hosting the things. So what they actually do with it later on is kind of up to them. I don't want to say too many of the ideas that they've brought up because... Yeah, you never know what they'll... I've ran into those problems before, because you might change your mind or do things slightly differently, so I'm not trying to commit them to anything. But it's a little bit of a different

business model, and they are more the ones that are handling things like credit recruitment or whatever else. So yeah, we've had... on our end, I can talk about our end, it's been going pretty well so far. We had one bit of a kerfuffle, which we've ran into way in the past, but it's been a really long time. Email is hard. Email is really hard. Like you take email for granted, but like, as far as I can tell, it's just like Canada Post. Just like Canada Post. Sometimes it's just on strike.

Yeah, so we had, I think it was, yeah, it was Google got upset about, you know, some new domain blasting out a crazy amount of emails. So we, we, sorry, email stopped blasting. We had a temporary fix for that. And a more permanent one is coming in there. Luckily people seem to be reacting pretty quickly. I think largely because the emails are pretty obviously not spam because next to everything so far is just, you know, hey, verification link, hey, payment confirmation, just stuff like that. So it's pretty simple. But yeah, it's going well so far. Excited

to see the future of it. A lot of the work that was done on this, honestly, one of the only reasons why we were... I can't even say one of the only reasons why we were interested. One of the only reasons why we were able, to be completely honest, is because the vast, I'm talking over 90% of the work that was done on this is work that benefited Flowplane. Like there was things that benefited the stability. We touched server architecture, we touched, like people, one of the leaks as to like,

yeah, we've been working on a thing, is the April Fools thing that Flowplane did, where, and you can go to my screen, and we left it up because people like it so much. We'll probably move these into user settings at a certain point, but you can change the appearance. Wow, I wonder why we may have needed a really simple and easy tool for managing reskins

and changing appearance of things. So like, there are things that were done where the thought process for like Jaden or Peter or Jonathan or AJ, whoever else was working on this, largely went like, okay, how do we adapt and build this thing so that it's going to benefit us and them and make it so that when we maintain this thing in the future, it's maintaining one thing. Pushing everything forward. That benefits two things. So like, okay, say we push an update to the player. We want to make sure that that update to the player that happens updates both sides. So like it isn't a completely copy and paste of all the maintenance that we need to do.

It's not a complete copy paste at all. There's a bunch of little changes here or there, but even little things, their buttons work slightly differently. Like their home button works slightly differently than our home button. Oh, I thought you were gonna show me. Okay. No, it's fine. I'm not logged into the Salesforce on this one. And the reasoning why is if you think about the

flow, theirs is one platform, all creators for one subscription, or there's this individual subscriptions per creator. So their home button, they wanna see all the creators. Right. That makes way more sense. Our home button bringing you to all the creators on the platform would be silly. Yeah.

So Jaden built the thing where it's like not super annoying to like maintain that moving forward Which was smart so we didn't just go in and just change the links We built a tool that makes it easier to maintain it makes that if we wanted to change things or experiment things with ever It's like scalable and blah blah blah blah. I remember telling NCIX back when they hard-forked NCIX calm and NCIX us calm NCIX.com and NCIXUS.com, what a disaster that was going to be. And even though I had like no background in development or whatever, it was amazing how right I ended up being. Like by a year in, it was just like catastrophic how far behind the US site had fallen in terms of like features and implementation and appearance even.

Unique username says, now it's Linus swallowing yawns all the time during this show. That's rare, it's usually Luke. It's been a very long week. It's been a very challenging week. I'm sure my numbers are slightly off. but when I woke up yesterday, not today, I had roughly calculated that I was from Sunday morning, 11 hours of sleep in on a Thursday. Nice. Because we were launching this new platform and Scrapyard Warsing at the same time, along with like other stuff going on in my like personal life and whatnot. So it was wild. But it was a good time. Launch went pretty smooth. You always expect a couple bumps here or there, and we had a couple bumps here and there, but it seemed to mostly be okay. The email one was the most major one. There were some other smaller

ones, but they were dealt with pretty quickly. Um, and people seem pretty happy so far, which is cool. Another thing that's cool about this is just like, um, you know, if we'll play and bid off a lot when it first started, we committed to a lot of different features and stuff. So a lot of our time has gone into just keeping up with that already. Um, but as the internet does, you, you want to grow and improve over time.

So we're hoping that this helps scale up the income that Flowplane effectively has so we can grow the team, so we can bring more features to Flowplane and also SaucePlus because now if we improve something, if we add a new feature to Flowplane, SaucePlus is gonna get it. If SaucePlus wants a new feature and we build that feature for SaucePlus, Flowplane's gonna get it. Say, trials for instance? Sure, which is something that we've wanted

for a long time. There's, I mean- Since day one. Many documents of things I can list out that we've wanted for a long time. Yeah, I know. But like, it would also benefit them. So if we can build it now and it benefits both and it's standard business stuff, but it's exciting for me because there's so many different things.

Our casting is a problem. We don't have TV apps, which those things go hand in hand because a lot of places cheat in how they handle casting right because they don't actually handle casting they just pass the request to an app that's on the TV because casting even even for like Google if I remember correctly Google doesn't even use Chromecast the way that like Chromecast is originally supposed to be used they just pass the request to a YouTube app on the TV which makes way more sense. Yeah, so like ideally we want to have TV apps so that we can do that because most of the

pure casting solutions that I've found are a little bit clunky and ours is pretty notably clunky. So yeah, we want to invest some time into a TV app. We want to do lots of other things down the line. Trust me, there's many features we would love to add, but The Spice has Got to Flow. The Spice has Got to Flow. And this is a way for us to scale, which is super cool. I'm really excited. You know what else has got to flow is our sponsor for the show. The show is brought to you today by Vessi. It might officially be summer now, but according to

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why not pick up a pair? You can even get 15% off your first order at Vessi.com slash WAN show or by scanning the QR code on the screen right now. The show is also brought to you by Corsair. If you're like me you know that four feet might not sound like a lot but it's not the size that matters, it's what you do with it. Corsair's Platform 4 sit-to-stand desk takes your work from home setup and elevates it, pun intended. Customization is a breeze thanks to their modular T-channel rail system, which adds support for hundreds of attachments.

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platform for or by clicking our link in the video description. Can I pause you for a sec before you go on to the next ad? I suppose. I suppose we've done that one. These could be cool for some of the scaling of the invention desks in labs. Because they have like, I saw one of the build up features where they had an overhead shelf. Sure. Could be pretty sweet.

They look good. Finally, the show is brought to you by Squarespace. You guys should know what Squarespace is by now, right? So instead of just reading off talking points, I'm going to tell you some random facts. Okay? Did you know that 2025 marks the year the Hudson's Bay Company, the oldest company in Canada, closed all their stores? Among other reasons, they just didn't pivot well into e-commerce, which is something that you could do with a beautifully designed website. Wow. Which is something that you could do with a beautifully designed website Wow

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you on a six or a seven. Do another merge message after the other announcements? Yeah. Okay. We did. Why don't we talk about zip tie tuning? Yeah. Zip tie tuning is a thing. Now normally policy these days cuz I don't know I guess we're corporate now or whatever and there are reasons for it. Thank you for that Luke. That's, really helpful when we're trying to explain why we have the policies that we do and anyway. Just add it to the pile of spit.

Normally policies we don't really talk about employee departures. I'm so close, so close. But I am going to make a bit of an exception here and just beg for forgiveness later. Alex and Andy have launched their new automotive channel, Zip Tie Tuning, so I just wanted to give a shout out and make sure everyone takes a minute of their time, maybe not a full minute, like you should probably get good if it takes you a full minute to do this,

a moment of their time to go check out Zip Tie Tuning on YouTube. We are extremely grateful for everything that they've done and everything they've meant to our team over the years. We're confident that they're gonna crush it and Of course you guys are gonna be a key part of that so Making a judgment call here No one's called me yet

There we go zip-tied tuning is a thing. I found their channel in under a minute, so Way to go gamer. I'm pretty good. All right. What else we got for today? Start minimizing some of these things. I have not been minimizing stuff. I have not been doing that. Wow that's my fault. Novis. Oh you didn't minimize team viewer way to go He lies. I don't have to minimize team viewer because I'm fucking deleting it Boom. We pay for an alternative. Go for it. Okay.

GPU Trends Study 2025 from Liquid Web. Liquid Web has published a white paper with some interesting statistics on GPUs. 57% of gamers have been prevented from buying a new GPU due to price hikes or scalping, with another 43% delaying or canceling a GPU upgrade due to other financial obligations. Hmm. 73% of gamers would buy Nvidia if brands performed equally. 64% of gamers are currently using an Nvidia brand GPU?

I mean, I guess if we count integrated graphics, it sounds like they're not talking specifically about discrete graphics. I think that stat is maybe a little useless. That's pretty misleading. Yeah. Forty-two, that happens a lot with these types of studies. Forty-two percent of gamers have a maximum GPU budget of under $500. I should hope so.

Me too. I mean, over $500 used to mean you were like a mega baller spending Mega cash on your gaming PC. I'm surprised. It's 42% I would expect a lot higher than that to be honest that makes me feel like this might be a skewed demographic Did we have we have how many people have over five hundred dollars GPU? I think it's a combination of things I think it's a combination of three things. I think it's really effective GPU marketing I think it's I think it's a combination of three things. I think it's really effective GPU marketing. I think it's the general wisdom being that you just dump most of your budget into your GPU to get the most gaming performance. And I forget what my third factor was, but

I think basically it's a combination of things that have led people to purchase more and more and more expensive GPUs. And we have a video coming very soon. This one I worked with, I think, yeah, Jordan. I worked with Jordan on this one, where we investigated bottlenecks again, which obviously is something we've talked about on the channel before. I mean, you make 6,000 videos, videos eventually end up retrying some ground but um in the context of the 5090 and Elijah's most average pc so we took the most average pc which had a 3060 in it in its most average configuration and i think it was like a i want to say like a 12

100s 12 400 i can't remember It had some six core processor in it. And we upgraded it from a 3060 all the way to a 5090 and evaluated how that impacted the performance at 1080p and at 4k. Now, as you can probably imagine, you know, performance went up a lot. But that's a, you know, 20 realistically, by the realistically, by the time you get an OC one with three, four fans or whatever on it, you were talking like $2,500 US dollars if you're lucky, right? So hold on a second, with this very average PC, how much of that performance jump could I get

spending like 800 bucks on like a Radion 9070 or 9070 XT. I think it's Echoes the conversation we had about the the price predictor thing We were talking about a while ago where like you need to consider the price of the whole system. And so, you know it looks like 58 percent of gamers have a maximum GPU budget that's over $500, but unless 58% of gamers have honestly a pretty banging system, maybe they shouldn't. Maybe we've just all been kind of suckered in by the conventional wisdom here.

Oh, right, I remember the third thing. Right, so the three things I meant to say was GPU marketing, conventional wisdom here. Oh, right, I remember the third thing. Right, so the three things I had meant to say was GPU marketing, conventional wisdom, and the fact that GPU really have been, I mean, we've talked about it extensively in Scrapyard Wars, where we would put like 80% of our budget into a GPU and then put together whatever craptastic system we possibly could just to get the thing running. And I think now that GPUs have kind of slowed down a little bit in terms of how much they're improving, gen over gen, I think CPUs might have kind of like caught up a little bit

to the point where you don't necessarily need the latest GPU to get the best gaming experience, especially if you're still gaming at 1080p, which as we saw when we did our Steam most average PC video, most people still are. And even if you're not, I think the allure of 4K doesn't actually seem in the TV space and stuff, absolutely. On the desktop monitor for me, primary resolution is 1440. And has been for a long time, and I feel like it kinda will be for a while moving forward still.

Yeah. I did that last year for scrap boards. Yeah, yeah you did Elijah. Yeah, we both did. I bought in, I bought in, it's okay. It's fun. If only there was someone who could've told us that. What?

What? Who's that guy? I don't know, he looks like an idiot though. Who the f*** is Linus Sebastian? Uh, anything else? Uh, oh wow, as many as 62% of PC gamers would apparently switch to cloud gaming if latency were eliminated? I mean, I guess, yeah, that's fair enough. If latency were eliminated? I mean, I guess, yeah, that's fair enough. If latency were eliminated. That's basically like saying,

would you switch to a 3D printed food if the flavor were identical to your regular food and the nutrition was perfect? It's like, well, okay. Yeah, sure. You can't just be like, if this hypothetical thing I can't achieve were the case, would you use it?

So, well, yeah, I mean, but latency cannot be eliminated. Latency can only be reduced. Surveys are so tough, man. Yeah. It's like, what about the video encoding? I'm finding problems like this all the time. Well, yeah, exactly.

You watch a train going past a forest on YouTube and it just turns to blocks. I'm gonna have the hyper-detailed like speckles and stars that so many games are putting in now. Exactly. Even Mario Kart World has tiny little particles and pizzazz and sparkles and stuff like that. Exactly. It's not gonna be possible to get rid of.

Well, I mean, not possible is a strong statement. I don't know what I would... I'm just trying to will the universe to make me wrong. I love it, actually. Good strategy. Impossible! It's impossible. It's impossible. I love it actually. Good strategy. Impossible! It's impossible. It's impossible, it can't be done. Not even with inside out encoding. Oh.

Compression rather, excuse me. I like the demonstration. Yeah, it keeps doing that. It's very good. Wait, how'd they do the demo? Did they do it like this? No, no, no, back and forth. It's tip to tip.

Yeah. That's right. There's four of them. I think you were on the earlier model. That's right, sorry. Yeah, not efficient. And then you can adjust for heights as well. Right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right. Yeah, requires the gimbal. Oh yeah, it was a sorting algorithm. Yeah. Switch to users, report online service bans after using MIG flash cartridges. Okay, I haven't actually read this yet, but... We knew it was coming. My first thing here is, what were you thinking?

Being the first one to put a MIG flash cartridge into a Switch 2. Surely you knew the risk, right? Anyway, whether you're loading up games you own or games you've pirated, inserting a MIG card into your Switch 2 is going to result in a bad time. Evercode 21344508 will pop up. You will be banned from online activity.

YouTuber ScatteredBrain received the error message, tried to factory reset their Switch 2, and essentially bricked it because they are no longer able to sign into a Nintendo account. MIG creators are telling users to be extra careful. The Cartridges product page notes that it serves as a backup and development device solely supporting gaming using personal game backups. To maintain the MIG flash warranty during online play, it is essential to utilize self-dumped backups with authentic certificate UID and card set IT. Now, with all of that said, our discussion question is, has Nintendo gone too far?

I don't like the e-waste of this. Even outside of the like, ethical questions of like, you should own something that you buy, which is a massive, important conversation here, but just e-wasting devices? Devices that they made a profit on. Just throwing that out there. Nintendo has been very upfront about the fact that they are no longer following the console pricing

sort of paradigm of selling the hardware at a loss and then making it up on the software. They sell the hardware for a profit, some of it, yeah, to your point, at a very considerable profit. And I don't know, man, this is one of those things where on the one hand, obviously, I understand that companies want to try to mitigate piracy and mitigate the, you know, let's put ourselves in their heads for a second, right? Like the theft of their intellectual properties is how a lot of companies perceive this. And I think that Nintendo would absolutely be one of them. So I understand the motivation here. But the flip side of it is like, I have such a hard time with companies

punishing users for not buying enough of their stuff. And it's something that has always kind of bothered me about the Apple ecosystem. It's like, oh, you want battery battery monitoring for your AirPods that we could easily implement on Android? Well, we don't because, I don't know, f*** you, buy an iPhone. And it's like, well, I already gave you $250. Was that not enough? I'm sorry, you know? And I love how in this, you're looking up. Well, that's where Apple is. That's interesting. That's where their own ass is, which is where they're inside. That's where their own ass is. Which is where they're inside. And so, you know, for Nintendo here too, like especially, like to Luke's point, with how expensive the first party accessories are and stuff. Oh man. Like I could see them,

I could see them doing something. I don't even know. I don't even know what they would do exactly. But forever bricking the console, I just can't. And it was pointed out actually, in some of the comments on our videos sort of discussing the Switch 2, that Nintendo's not the switch to that

Nintendo is not the first to reserve the right to do this But to my knowledge, I don't think Sony has ever actually bricked a PlayStation for Sony I that's what someone said in the comments under our videos. So make it that way John Deere or something. No so This is this is, as far as I know, this is new ground that we're treading, is it not? And I don't like it. So, okay, ScrappyDP says they just bricked the console,

or the software, not the console, but does it, or the software, not the console, but does it... I mean, I mean, but, I mean, come on. What are you buying when you buy a Switch 2? Ben Bob says, "'Nintendo has not gone too far,' in their opinion. "'If the Switch 2 ban was due to the console "'being connected to Nintendo servers "'at the time of using a MIG Switch cart,

"'then this is more or less what Microsoft and Sony have done on prior hardware connected to the internet. If it's baked into firmware to check if offline, it would still be in line with prior consoles. If you hack or run backups, you'll have to be careful and accept the consequences. I mean, yeah, that's, um, that's fair enough. Do be careful. The MIG site says it's compatible with Switch 2. Seriously? Still? That's insane. That's insane. The Philippine shot said it. I did respond to them. It's not technically false. I mean yeah. It just for sure gets you banned. Well not necessarily for sure, but like

That's that's crazy, it's like them saying their genitals are compatible with your butt But not warning you about like that it might be uncomfortable I think I'm gonna move on Nexus mods has been sold by founder Robin Darkone Scott after 24 years. The site was founded in 2001 as Tess Nexus or T-E-S Nexus or the Elder Scrolls Nexus. I remember that time. The new ownership was initially only known by first names and handles but has now been revealed to be a company called Chosen whose website doesn't reveal much. I don't think we have it linked but it says it doesn't reveal much but smells

an awful lot like venture capital. One of the new owners posted an announcement that Nexus Mods' core model will remain unchanged, saying mods will always remain free. That chosen has no plans to claim ownership of uploaded mods and whoa, I mean that would be a... If you want a PR disaster, pull that move. And that lifetime accounts are safe. A Nexus Mod spokesman told PC Gamer that the new owners are on-site with Nexus Mod's team of 40 people and that the focus is on continuity. The new owners have made it clear that additional monetization is on the way, but that users will likely see less ads and that they'll reveal more about themselves when they've earned that right. Everything else sounded pretty cool, but it's not about earning the right to reveal more about yourselves,

it's about being transparent at the beginning. Like this screwdriver. Yeah. Coming soon at Lttstore.com. That was beautiful. Thank you. But yeah, figure it out. You really did like. You, yeah, just like, tell people who the heck you are. That's pretty straightforward.

That's step one. The less ads thing, to me, actually does kind of make sense a little bit. Does it though? If you think about the people going to a modding site, what percentage of them have ad blockers, how much are you actually making on the ads? They're probably just looking at it and going like, hmm. This is just friction for what? Yep. Might as well find things that make like real money.

Like what though? I really don't know. Because that's my concern. Yeah, it sure is. It's not like they would have bought this out of the goodness of their hearts. Yeah. I think their model right now is decent. You get like better download rates and stuff. Okay. I don't know. Do you know if collections are locked behind subscriptions, Dan? I have no idea. The only thing that I know about it is the download rate limiting. Yeah. I think most of the mods are like five megs, so it doesn't matter.

They're just like any tweaks a lot of the time. And then you get the big texture overhauls and stuff like that, which are many gigs. Yeah. Especially if you replace like every texture in a game. Like I feel like Skyrim modding is like more impacted by the download rate thing. Oh yeah, because you gotta download 500.

I want the new ideas though. Like other than jacking up the price on that, like what's the new ideas? I have no, I genuinely no idea. They're not adding their, oh man, the ads are annoying. There's an ad, look, it's actually being hidden partially. There's this banner all the way across the bottom for- Oh God.

Icky thing, and then there's this other thing that's actually covered. Wait, one ad is covering up another ad. You can't fully see it because of our box that we're in. Yeah. But this right here is another ad that half of it is covered up by the banner ad at the bottom. That's wild. I would be so pissed if I was the ad in the background.

Yo dog, I heard you like, add. So I put add in your ad so you can add while you add. This all is an ad too, I actually thought this was just like talking about mods. So the entire site right now is this sliver in the middle. Hot take. Wow. Is this okay for what you get out of Nexus modss for free? I mean, yeah, sure. Can it get worse than this?

They have 40 employees. Seems pretty bad. They have to pay for something somehow. I mean, it does seem pretty bad, but they all have close buttons on them. And I just wasn't pressing them. So, like, let's see. Do they actually close? Yep. And then it's not that bad.

There's another ad. Yeah, but if I scroll down from the big one at the top, then there's just this one which I can also close. Was that one behind the other two ads? Yes, I think so. Wow. Pretty wild. I don't even see where their subscription... Oh, here we go. Go premium. So what do I get? Don't tell me to register first. Just tell me what I get. Uncapped download speed, one-click collections. Yeah, do I get? Don't tell me to register first. Just tell me what I get. Uncap download speed, one-click collections. Yeah. So I think collections are behind it. Add free experience. All right. So that's why I wasn't familiar with how bad it is.

Support mod creators. This is a big part of the reason why I do it. Cause I know money goes to the mod creators. And I do also think this is cool. So maybe they're going to add things to the premium. Can't imagine what. Yeah. That's my problem. I've been sitting here the whole time you've been talking,

not really listening to what you're saying, trying to think of what they could add that would add value to, okay, actually, I thought of something. I assume it's just like a bunch of different mods and people can like make them and then you just like install them all in one go. So you can be a curator who plans out a package

and they also plan out like a load order and everything so all the difficult parts of modding can be done in a collection and then you just put it in which is actually like a killer feature and I think that I think you can still engage with collections without it but you have to like individually do everything so they remove a lot of the tedium of modding which is a big part of the reason why people don't do it. So that makes sense. If they could figure out a way to...

Ugh. Nah, it's kind of an outdated idea. Remember that thing I pitched you like a billion years ago where it was like a system tray tool that would make every unskippable thing skippable like at the beginnings of games and stuff like that. So it basically like run on your system and then just like it would just like delete the files for like pre game launch videos and stuff like that. Yeah.

Because that used to be something that you could mod out of games and I feel like either it's become more difficult or people just don't bother anymore and they've become so much more unskippable and irritating. A lot of them have moved in-engine. Yeah. One thing that I've been seeing a lot of in response to this is people being worried about not safe for work mods which I don't think is going to happen. Because like when you- Yeah, they'd be crazy. That would be like buying Tumblr and not realizing that it was all about the poor.

Yeah, what I was gonna say is like- Okay, that did happen. This isn't Yahoo though. This is like, who knows who they are. Who knows who it is. Which is part of the problem, but like, especially because of the who knows who it is, I don't expect they're gonna take away

the not safe for work stuff. What if they expect they're gonna take away the not safer work stuff What if they leaned into it that's they'd make money there honestly my gut tells me if anything it will be more Because if you look at the trajectory of the internet over the last while You can't go from a hundred percent to more than a hundred percent. It's not a hundred percent. I know I know There is I just mean the internet in general Oh, yeah Yeah, from the last little while, try from when it was invented No, but it's also been way more socially acceptable, like look at that fan company

Ah, yeah What? Dyson OnlyFans? We were literally a creator on it. You're gonna avoid saying the name Doing a laugh. He thinks they're cringe Do I? People who subscribe on OnlyFans? Oh, yeah You support mod creators? Yeah Yeah

Same thing? No Identical. You are just as bad. Not those ones. I'll show you all my mods. Please don't. On OnlyFans? I love the please don't. Not on stream. We want to keep our... I don't mod that way, Dan. You're lame. Speaking of speaking of... Oh wait, you have a girlfriend over on...

One of the first comments in Floatplane Chat, before we even went live, was talking about this, and they were like, don't take, what's that something Blade? What? New, uh... Social Blade? Like PlayStation game that came out, but it's also on PC. Mountain Blade. No.

Oh, the one that you will not know. The ones that mods are totally fine? Was that the, some company just came out with it recently? Stellar Blade. Yeah, that like mods are totally fine? Was that the... some company just came out with it recently? Stellar Blade. Yeah that one. Gunner Blade? That's a nickname for it. Oh. And it has mods on Nexus mods and one of the first comments in full-play chat that I saw was like, don't take those ones away please! Anyway. I think it's that community that's mostly worried because that's where there's been like a bit of a line.

There's been some political lines with Nexus mods and there's also been the not safe for work line, which is there is a level that they don't accept. I see. So are they going to pull that level back and be more restrictive or are they going to push that level forward and accept more stuff? Right. If I had to guess if it's one or the other, if they adjust it at all, they might just leave it.

But if it's one or the other, I think they're gonna push it forward and allow more stuff. All right. Speaking of keeping our stream online, I was really hoping to use that segue while we still remembered that Dan said that. I was trying to set you up for it. Twitch has posted new simulcasting guidelines that TLDR state that the WAN show could get us in trouble on Twitch. Maybe sort of.

They state that the Twitch user experience of a simulcast stream must be no less than the experience on other platforms or services, including chat engagement. You also shouldn't provide links or otherwise direct your community to watch your stream on other platforms. Say for instance, LMG.GG slash floatplane. Oh! Well, no, that's not really a good link down there.

You can't use third party services to combine activity with other platforms. And there was a immediate question from our community and here I'm just going to I'm just going to bring this up here does this mean because we have to provide the same experience to all platforms that view the WAN show when it is simulcast does this mean the WAN show will finally read twitch chats Elijah's saying these are not new by the way. They're almost two years old. They're just enforcing it now

He didn't even check with me before posting this Well it wouldn't make any sense, but he's a hundred percent right yeah Agreed twitch chat lost its- Wise man. Lost its chatting with us privileges, man, a long time ago now, I think. Quite a while ago. Just by being-

You held on for a while. I did, I did. I gave up a long time ago. I did, I held out for a long time. But Twitch chat, they lost their privileges. They lost their privileges a very long time ago Do we still have our little custom agreement thing? We have uh, I don't know you used to have some some Fancy boy privileges. Yeah, we we had a pretty special agreement that we signed with twitch a very long time ago

We were the first to be allowed to stream non-gaming content on the platform and We were also the first to have a carve-out for simulcasting That was explicitly allowed under our agreement with them to my knowledge and that was because Twitch was expanding into the YouTube MCN or multi-channel network space back in the day and recruit they wanted to make a big push into tech and recruited us, I believe, as their first channel. So we signed a deal with them where they were our MCN. We got a 100% revenue share for our YouTube AdSense, which I insisted on and made absolutely no sense for them. So I don't know why they did that, but they

did. And then they also agreed to special terms for us because I was like, guys, look, I can't, I can't be Twitch exclusive for like, streaming and like, I can't, I can't do this stuff because I'm, I'm a YouTuber first and foremost. And you're like, my YouTube MCN, you're not looking to like, you're not looking to kneecap my ability to grow on YouTube, are you? Like that would be, that would be wild. And so they, they signed these special carve outs for us. And then within a matter of like, I forget if it was months or it was weeks, our contact at Twitch for the whole MCN program was gone and it just disappeared. So to my knowledge, nobody else ever signed with them or maybe like a

handful of other people did. And I don't know if they had the same carve outs. So we have always been allowed to multi stream with no restrictions. And we have always been allowed to upload non gaming content with no real restrictions on it. And if not, I guess, and if they decide not to honor that agreement anymore well, then I guess We'll give them the old you team viewer. Yeah Which is fine. I mean realistically. I don't think we really need twitch that badly at this point. I used to like twitch so much You think there yeah used to like fanboy over them like super hard like I was there so at one point I was worried you were gonna quit and go work at twitch no I mean I can never don't pretend you never thought about it Did I I think so I don't think so I mean I don't I don't mean

Seriously consider. I don't mean sat there thinking do I sign the offer or not? I just mean like don't tell me you never like thought about well there was one Exactly, I wasn't gonna. That's what I'm talking about. I'm just saying, I'm just saying, you fanboyed pretty hard. They were really cool. I really liked a lot of people that worked there. They did cool stuff. Hold on a second, guys.

You cannot like Twitch. Luke is less enamored with them these days too. Totally fine. But let's be real about why we don't like Twitch Okay, john mash and floatplane chat says twitch went so money hungry. It was just still lose money Which has never made money? Yeah, I don't agree with that. Be honest like if anything Twitch might be a healthier more vibrant platform if they could figure out how to be profitable. Yeah That is that is not a, dude, Elijah's in the chat, brother, they went money hungry

because they have never had a profitable year. Yeah. That's the thing. And I know people compare them to, I think it's Kik, because people are actually making more money on Kik, but I've still gotta be gambling stuff. I mean, Kik is still funded by like gambling crypto gambling yeah like what do you what do you want it's not it's not funded by the actual viability of what the platform is doing so we have to compare apples to apples

if you want to call twitch money hungry like butt heads or whatever you have to compare them to someone who is running a healthy, self-sufficient, profitable business and is, you know, doing better by their users. Like you can't just... That's not why I'm not as into Twitch these days. No, I know, I know. I think it's mostly the vibe. Yep. The vibe just changed, the vibe shifted. As much as like... Well you're not into just like girls in hot tubs? Not really, to be honest. I always thought about that boy. That boy. I always thought about him. I, yeah, I don't know. I I Now you can do anything on twitch which like sounds cool But it also means that it just doesn't feel very focused if that makes yeah

Why twitch like I do I like yeah exactly yeah Like I love YouTube to be clear and YouTube is super not focused so like yeah, but that's its identity YouTube is super not focused. So like- Yeah, but that's its identity. YouTube is, it's you on the tube. Yeah. Yeah. Twitch had kind of a focus, it had an identity

and now it's just sort of kind of everything and then because it's kind of everything but then also not, people are constantly trying to fight and push the boundaries on different things and like, it's just, I don't know. It was, it was a simpler time which is a very generic and boring and easy thing to say but it just actually kind of was. Jemesh with the I don't know what's a what's a terrible take is a terrible

take ice cold or red hot I miss Facebook gaming hashtag mixer don't worry I know you're kidding jamesh if you wanted a mess oh low latency mess all right oh man why is it always bad news when show why do people even tune into this show if they want to leave feeling good about the world the Nexus mods news is who knows yet news 23 and meMe co-fac- I mean, oh dude, come on. It's gonna be bad. Name, name, name three. I don't know if I can name one. Name one time private equity has acquired something and made it better.

One time. I'm not gonna be able to answer this, but I actually wonder if the chat even can. Come on. Is there an example? I don't have one straight up. Give it to me. Give it to me right here It's not the point of private equity. Come on right here. Put it right here The one top toys are us My chat froze dang it hold on I'm missing all of this rats

Twitch chat misses Farmville. So I don't think anyone did. Valve acquiring devs is not private equity. Does Google count as private equity? Hold on. I don't think so. No. So private equity is a company that serves no purpose other than to be a vehicle for acquiring companies. And then gutting them.

And not venture capital. Venture capital is more like investment in startups with the idea that they will, you're funding them to develop new ideas so they will grow exponentially. Most of them will die, but some of them will be moonshots and will be very successful. Private equity takes established businesses and buys them and then just milks them. Okay. Wait, am I thinking the wrong? You think Eli Lilly got way better?

Disney buying Star Wars. Okay, again, that's not private equity. That's an M&A. That's like a merger and acquisition. Disney is a media company. Also you're wrong. Let's see. Psychotech says Toys R Us in Canada is owned by Putman Investments. Okay, and Toys R Us Canada did manage to do okay.

Again, you guys seem, oh man, a lot of these, you guys seem to not quite be giving me private equity examples. So when Future Shop was about to go bankrupt in Canada, Best Buy bought them out and carried on their gift cards and warranties, et cetera. But Best Buy is not a private equity firm.

Best Buy is an electronics retailer that bought an about to go bankrupt slash defunct electronics retailer and then absorbed their them effectively to take over their leases to to take the customer base. So that's not private equity. I forgot the question. Apparently Nabisco, according to Gemini, says angry pen to PC. Yeah, I'm not getting a lot of... Ambler says, oh, Jagex, the RuneScape devs has apparently been private equity'd a few times and is still going, but that's mostly due to certain staff actually getting through the app.

I think people are misusing the term private equity. Like who were they acquired by? Yeah, no private equity. You have to be like a, like a Berkshire Hathaway where you are not a real company. You don't actually like make cars or games or media. You are just a vehicle for money to come in and then be spent on things and grow. That's it. A lot of the strat is you buy a bunch of the same type of business in an area, unify them all under one banner, use the same IT, HR, whatever systems to save some money, and then pump up prices because you own all the businesses of that type in the area. It's like

an effective way to reduce some costs in the business in order to increase profit margins and then effectively have a monopoly and crank the price on everybody and put the grips on consumers. And that can be done by private equity or it can be done by just a large monopolistic participant in the space. I remember chatting with a friend of mine who works for a company that does software for medical offices, like managing customer lists and stuff like that. And they were acquired at some point by a competitor who is just basically nomming up all the little guys

and then consolidating so that they can raise pricing. But that's still not private equity. That's just a monopolistic competitor buying everybody. Geeky Vapor says, **** VCA Canada, the vet company. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. Glow says, today Linus learned nobody knows what private equity is because they're all ass. Okay, okay. Stephen in floatplane chat says, my company Transact Campus was under private equity and we were sold to Roper Technologies and it worked out. But you were on.

Interesting. I don't think that's the question though, because they were under private equity and then they sold out of private equity. You weren't you weren't profitable enough to make it better Which is like the opposite of what we're talking about. I think Well, I mean, yeah, they were sold again is that it working out maybe that's it working out I don't Okay, you know what let's move on let's move on the point is yeah the 23 I'm sure there's an example somewhere the 23 and me co-founder bids to buy back the company

Let's go And with Jickey's winning bid was 305 million How do you get to run a company that so catastrophically collapses and have $305 million? Oh, there are so many examples of this. Yeah, I know. My goodness. Luke, it's a rhetorical question. Let's go.

Now we've got examples. Now I can make lists. She resigned when the company announced the bankruptcy, declared concerns over privacy issues, has a non-profit now, TTAM, 23andMe, which made the bid. She gets substantially all of the genetic testing firm's assets. TTAM will comply with all applicable state privacy laws as if it were a for-profit entity. They've also stated they won't sell or transfer customers genetic data in case of a merger acquisition or bankruptcy unless the entity is another domestic nonprofit research institution that will adopt the same privacy statements. Bankruptcy court case still has to approve the sale. Hmm okay I mean this And this is better than it just like being out there.

Wait, I'm a little lost here. The has a nonprofit now, T-Tam 23andMe, which made the bid. Like she's running a nonprofit called 23andMe, which bought a company called 23andMe. Well, good luck everybody. I still strongly believe that anyone who submitted their data to 23andMe is eventually going to have it available for sale at some point. Yeah, I mean it was.

Just the same person bought it. Okay, Etsy is cracking down on 3D printed products. Etsy has introduced new, which I kind of like because I think being able to sell 3D printed products is cool, but I'd like some distinction personally. Etsy has introduced new rules, new rules, changes, stating, okay, that anything made by a seller using computerized tools, really any, including CNC, wow, such as laser printers, 3D printers, CNC, or cricket. Is it cricket or cry cut? Cricket? Cricket. Or cricket machines must be produced based on the seller's original design. Okay. Originally an online bazaar of handmade crafts and vintage clothing, Etsy became flooded

with mass-produced trinkets sold by dropshippers, resellers, and large 3D print farms. All3DP notes that if your Etsy business model is solely based on 3D printing licensed digital models and you're not interested in adding custom features to your products, now is the time to transition from Etsy to another platform. So this is pretty interesting. Well, hold on a second. It's good. Hold on a second.

Hold on a second. I think that it's cool that Etsy has defined an identity for themselves and is taking steps to enforce it. That's why I think it's cool. However, however, this is one of those decisions that I kind of am looking at going, what will be the unintended consequences? Let's say that I'm someone who is super into creating cool designs and I license them to a lot of people, which is making money for me and allowing me to continue to create more designs,

maybe even do it as a full-time job. Are we cutting off that lifeline if that particular person is not interested in running a 3D printing farm and dealing with the logistics of shipping out hundreds of little bird-shaped water feeders or whatever? I understand the argument. I don't agree with it. Jared I'm not making an argument. I'm just asking a question.

Pete No, and I'm not saying it's necessarily your argument or anything, but to pose it as an argument regardless, I don't agree with it because of what Etsy like is, and this doesn't cut off the lifeline for those people on every website. It just cuts off that path through Etsy, which I think should happen.. What's the alternative? Where should I buy that because that's where honestly oh so down to Etsy's all the Etsy wants their identity to be like bespoke Handcrafted yeah, but I got to tell you that I don't see Etsy that way and their identity is Partially be able to defend the way that they want their identity It's partially what they want it to be, but it's also partially what it just is.

I agree, but if what it is, is not what they want it to be, they should be able to take actions to defend what they want it to be. And they are able to, and I'm not saying anything about their right to do that, the only question I'm asking is, what happens now? Oh, yeah. Because where I would- Some people are going to get bumped off. Where I would, no, I'm talking about the original designers. I'm not even talking about the 3D

print farms. So about those people, if I the end user was like, I want a 3D printed like some random thing, I would think to go to Etsy. I confess to you, I would have no idea where else to go for that. I wouldn't, but I understand. Where would you go? A 3D printing website? But like... There's many of them where you can see a design, you can just order it and it just gets printed for you and then delivered.

But what if... The thing about Etsy is it's not all 3D printed. There's also like laser engraving and there's like, like Etsy, the only thing I've ever really thought to buy on Etsy is like gifty stuff. And I don't necessarily just want to see 3D printed stuff. So what's that, what's an alternative marketplace? No, there's still going to be 3D,

they're not banning 3D printed stuff. I know. Yeah. But- Etsy is supposed to be creators. Sure. So they should defend that. I think this completely makes sense. It's not panning it off of the internet. I'm not saying it doesn't make sense. Hold on, hold on. I'm asking, if the creator of the design does not want to run a 3D printing shop, sure. Is there, okay, is Etsy creating a path by which that creator through one licensed third

party or something could have it for sale on Etsy? I don't think they need to. But what, okay, why not? Because their thing is about connecting. Like I, for Christmas, I bought these little wooden, uh, birds for Emma, uh, and they were through Etsy. And when I did the transaction, it put me in contact with that person. And we talked about it and any customizations that might be wanted

and all this other kind of stuff. It's supposed to be a, from my understanding, and I don't know, I'm not Etsy, I could be wrong, but from my understanding, it's supposed to be a way to get consumers in contact with creators that are making things. Bespoke things. Yeah. Sure. And if this is not doing that because it's a pass-through, then that is not how they

want their website to really work. And that's fine. Where do I go to find that now? There's other websites on the internet. No, I know there's other websites on the internet. So, okay, but we keep- Let me see if I can find some. We keep dodging my question.

My question- I don't think so. My question is, maybe Dan understands my question. My question is, Mr. Dan, I am the creator of something. Maybe it is an engraving template or maybe it is a 3D printed thing, or maybe it is some kind of STL for some kind of CNC something. It's something. I do not wish to sell it directly and deal with the logistics and Okun Hedge in floatplane chat says Creators who don't want to bother with the logistics will probably just hire out to a management firm Which will do all that for them and manage their account and stuff. That is very optimistic

But probably probably not if they didn't want to do in the first place They probably don't want to do that. So right now, the reseller of Licensed Designs Network that, as far as I can tell, largely uses Etsy to sell these creations, if their source of income is those people, all I'm asking is, what will happen to them? Where does that customer go to find that? What's the alternative? There's sites online where you can sell your 3D printing files. Yes. But I'm not only talking about 3D printing.

I think the consumer, in this case that Linus is talking about, wants the 3D printed object finalized. Or not 3D printed. Just the file. Or engraved. Or engraved. Or some thing. They want the physical object.

They want the physical object. And the store themself is just getting stuff off Thingiverse and then making the physical object and then selling that. One thing that I've been trying to figure out just kind of in the comments, I produce 3D print designs. I have no interest in selling physical goods, but I take commissions. I sell them on a store or something like that.

If I'm a 3D print farm, this design looks really cool. I'm going to buy a, I can sell this license of your 3D model and then I'm going to sell it on my Etsy store. Is that allowed by Etsy? If the store were to go to that person directly and commission an STL for them, could they sell that on their store? That I don't know. If they had a team or an employee, would that also count?

I think yes. Yeah. So is commissioning not a bad idea? So what is wrong with licensing then? Would the commissioner give a license for only that store? Because you could sell that stuff on Shopify, you could sell that stuff on Amazon, you could sell that stuff anywhere. The thing that's getting in the middle here is that they're just producing physical goods that don't require craftsmanship, or that much craftsmanship. I shouldn't be too disparaging. But the file is like the problem?

– It's the owner of the file. That's where Etsy's drawing the line. They're saying that the only person who can sell a good created with a file is the creator of the file. I think it's more creator than owner. Yes, it's the creator of the file because licensing is not allowed. And to be clear, I fully understand what they're trying to achieve here. They're trying to take the site from what it is now, which is essentially like a dumping ground of reproduced digital hoo-ha that's sold by a whole bunch of licensees of, in many cases, a lot of duplicate files. Just grabbing free stuff. Right? Yeah. So I want to make it abundantly

clear that I fully understand the issue. That is not the problem. And I fully recognize Etsy's right to maintain their own identity for what they are. My question is the people who are making their living, licensing these files that they have created which may not be 3d printed. They may be something else For me as a as a pretty normie in terms of like, you know shopping online I actually don't do a ton of shopping online. I I can't I don't know like what the What the place I would go to to just like find kitschy sort of, in this case I guess, licensed, you know, stuff would be. Like what Etsy wants its identity to be, what they want

their identity to be, that's well within their rights, but as a consumer that isn't the identity that Etsy has managed to maintain over the last five plus years. So now that they have morphed into that, they have become a central part of the business model of the creators of these designs that is now gone. I think I get it. So where is the replacement? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're talking about the creators, their business model is selling to Etsy shops.

I personally think you're over blowing how much that happens. And in the inverse, how much it's just people taking models or buying them for like $20 from stores that already exist, which aren't going anywhere. So that model is not going to change. I don't want us to be too laser focused on 3D models. Like literally every post in chat is telling me, but thing of verse, thing of verse, well, hold on a second.

If you're talking about things like drop shipping, then they still have the exact same options they had in the past. Leather work, pins, it can all just be mass produced out of a file, right? Yeah. I know a lot of creators too, who produce this stuff and sell the files. Selling the files is a lot easier. It could be, yeah.

Yeah, well, what's that, what's that type of like stitching where you... embroidery. Embroidery. Yeah. You could do embroidery patterns. Okay. Which is great. So where's the hub for it? Exactly. This stuff is currently available now on Amazon. All of it? Like, I... There are drop shipped things. Sure. There are embroidered things. There are 3d printed things. I mean, I don't particularly want to buy on Amazon Okay, I Don't think that's a valid answer to the statement and And like and like I don't actually necessarily think that the shopping experience on Amazon is so bad very similar to the shopping experience on Etsy. Like if...

Look, I really did not mean for this to be a particularly contentious topic. I was just asking if I did. No, it's just a really complicated, nuanced topic. Because there's a lot of different creators involved in something like a print farm. Some of them are being stolen from, some of them don't care, because it's like, OK, I want a 3D printed benchy, which is now available. I can go get the file, but I don't have a 3D printer. I want one. Or, you know, I would like the Disney logo

cross-stitched into a T-shirt or printed onto a T-shirt. Yeah. Somebody's maybe selling that pre-done. There's like a bunch of different avenues Some some creators will embroider your stuff, but that's like you're going to a business service It's very confusing and I don't know how they're gonna try and crack down on it more than just like a vibes thing It's I think it's largely gonna be a vibes thing. I think it's gonna be a vibes thing. 3D printing is probably a little bit easier than the other stuff. I don't know. I um and like I think the I think the theft angle that uh that Luke brought up is

probably a really critical element not only in the way that you brought it up, but also from an IP standpoint. This could be Etsy just trying to cover their butts. Defending. Dan bringing up the Disney logo thing. I've had some friends get banned from Etsy for making very similar things, because people want good thing for the thing they like.

Sometimes you can't get a lot of like, branded things are trash. A lot of the stuff that my friends make on Etsy is like better than the quality that you can get that is first party. Yeah, I'm not surprised. But that's not really allowed, but it's almost, you kind of have to know that it's your kind of

special little guy interest thing. Yeah, I don't know I guess what is what is the special sauce that you're describing with as it? What's the shopping experience that it's just full of like? Kitchy kind of crafted looking stuff. That's it. That's its identity to me is it's kind of like it's kind of remember think geek think geek conceivably could have sold anything and ThinkGeek conceivably could have sold anything, and Amazon probably had everything that ThinkGeek had. Not everything. Some things were ThinkGeek exclusive. They made their own items.

But ThinkGeek had an identity. Its identity was if I had a gamer geek person in my life, and it was their birthday, and I had absolutely no idea what to buy them, and for some reason they were an adult who still wanted birthday presents, I could go to ThinkGeek and I could probably find like a cool map of Middle Earth or something that they would think is cool and I could buy that. And you can go there for inspiration, I guess, as part of what the identity of a store is to me. As I have something in my back of my mind that I kind of need something like that to serve purpose X and that's the store that I would think to go to. Obviously I could go to eBay. You could buy anything

on eBay. Like I it's not that I can't solve this problem it's just that you know I think the I... Luke supports the mod creators on Nexus. The Etsy is very, very similar to that sort of mindset. Yeah. I can go to eBay and I can get, you know, 3D printed services or like plates. I'm not going to Etsy to buy from a store.

I'm there to buy from a creator and a small team. Right. I honestly think we're talking about an incredibly, I'm there to buy from a creator and a small team, right? Or an individual. I honestly think we're talking about like an incredibly, like we're talking about the where do they go for an incredibly small percentage of the platform? I think the vast majority of people. Oh, the problem is that it's a small percentage, but it's the same type of thing. And it's getting bigger and bigger because when somebody goes, cute Bulbasaur plant holder, it's Etsy by the Bulbasaur plant holder. I don't think that's a point.

No, no, no, I understand what you're saying, Luke. You're saying that the people who are relying on licensing their designs to people who are using a marketplace like Etsy to sell them in volume are very few and far between. And I think a lot of those people are being like robbed. And you know what? I'll be the first to admit that I don't know much

about the economics of these engagements, other than that I do know that people do survive by creating designs, licensing them to whether it's engraving or 3D printing or leatherworking farms, and then using marketplaces like Etsy to do numbers. So I'll show you, I'm going to try to find it. By the way, this is really sad. ThinkGeek apparently was bought out by private equity.

Throwing back to what we were talking about before. I think it was so cool. I don't know. Do you have a particular site that you like for like buying, I don't know if you ever have, but like buying 3D printing files that I suspect you probably just make your own. But oh, I mean, not necessarily. It's really kind of dependent on what's needed. There's some very specialized things that you might want, but most of them are available for free. A lot of them are free. And a lot of these people are printing and then selling. Like,

a big part of my problem, I think, is that a huge amount of Etsy is people downloading free 3D models that a lot of the time come with a thing saying you can't sell this. Most of it's open source licenses. Printing a thousand of them and selling them on Etsy. That's the vast majority of what's happening. Do we know that? It's not all of it. Yeah, I've read articles about it before where Etsy is concerned about this problem. I think that's kind of what they're trying to maybe crack down on. And that's what they're trying to stop. Now, Linus' scenario, I am certain, is also real. I think it's just a really small percentage.

How do we enable that scenario? Like, how do we get more money into the hands of the creator without necessarily telling the creator, putting a gun to their head and being like, you need to start running your own 3D printing farm and putting little trinkets in packages and putting labels on them. That's probably not what you wanna do,

because you like creating things. This kind of comes back into starving artists. That's what I'm asking. Where, what store do I go to where I can find the Etsy-ness. It's interesting because it's such a similar question to like the Nexus Mods idea. True. And with Nexus Mods,

the way that they've done it is they've tried to add kind of platform features Under a subscription and they've used part of the subscription to benefit the creators of the mods Which are the only reason why I wanted on the platform if you know what I mean So they they're kind of reciprocating a little bit. Okay, the mod creators are putting their mods up for free And the only reason why you're on my website is because the mod creators did that. I'm going to charge a subscription but obviously the only reason you're here for these mods really so I'm going to lock this some platform features that make it nicer to use my platform but I'm going to give some kickbacks to the mod creators.

So is there a solution like does printables for example do you have kickbacks? Is there a subscription model? Is there anything going on? You know if it's like artist versus I I guess, the printing company at this point, if you want to think about it in terms of art prints and painters, you know, the people who are designing the 3D models are kind of the painter and then they're like, here's my painting. Do you want to buy one? I don't really want to deal with shipping things. And then somebody just buys a license to it and then starts printing it and the only way that the consumers is gonna get it like because Thingiverse and printables and

those sorts of things are kind of like Nexus mods right now anyway you know yeah like I found this I have no idea but I found this creator on printables and there's an option to support and join club and then you can join like a thingy that gives them some form of kickback. There's loads of these types of... So I guess you can probably set up your own tiers. Yeah. I'm assuming. There's loads of these types of websites and especially for models. For games as well it's really important. A lot of people will buy assets and a lot of people will make assets, something like a 3d printed kind of desk toy or, you know, um,

definitely the amusement. They're normally simpler. And even there's super complicated ones, but like all this architecture isn't going away is I think what my, my point was. Absolutely not. No. Yeah. I just think that this is an effort to reduce slop in a way. Oh, interesting. Yeah, OK, so check this out. So again, on printables, again, there

are a lot of these other websites. This is just the one that I'm poking around on. You can see these purple things, pink things, whatever. I highlight over it. It's an exclusive model. So you have to be part of this person's club to download it. Yep. And then that's a subscription.

Some people sell individuals. Yes, there are also ways you can sell individual models. So this is like, this is the market that these places have had in the past. Okay, so then, do you think it will have any impact on the number of people that will subscribe to Buddy there if there are fewer resellers? Fewer places for them to sell? Yeah. I think there are other... Does he have a license if somebody wants to reproduce it?

I don't know. We're just talking in theory. No, no, yeah, I'm talking in theory. I'm also talking in theory. By reducing the sales avenues for these designs Will there be an impact was my original question and I don't know the answer to that And I do agree that the slop on Etsy is an absolute problem And I do think that it's a great point that tamping down on theft is

a hundred percent necessary, but like I'm just trying to I'm just trying to figure out. I just really think, I am sure there will be an impact on some people doing this legitimately. I really think the amount of effectively pirated non-condoned slop on Etsy was- Should go way down. Well, no, I think it was the vast majority of all of this type of arrangement.

I really think the percentage of this that is fitting under the category that you're talking about is like incredibly small. And I think the reason for that is whenever you see the prices to buy the files for these things, it's cheap. Do you think that part of the problem that I'm experiencing where I have this perception of Etsy is that-

Which is a legitimate perception of Etsy. Is that Etsy took too long to take action. Absolutely, dude. Yeah, they should have done this, like you said, five years ago or whatever. Oh yeah, this has been years. Because this has been true on Etsy for a long time. Years, so okay, I think we've done it then.

I think we've come to what was kind of the core of what I was trying to explain, where they have their idea of what their identity is. But for better or for worse, through their actions, their identity has become something that has created a marketplace for someone. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And so what's the replacement?

What is going to fill that vacuum now? Yeah, because like you said. eBay, maybe. Yeah, I think the traditional stores that I listed, but like you said, you don't want a store that's like 3dprintedjunk.com. No. You want a store that is

thingsthatyou'reinterestedin.com that might also have 3D printed things. I mean, what if I did want a store that is, again, I wanna make it really clear. I'm not just talking about 3D printed things. I mean, what if I did want a store that is, again, I wanna make it really clear, I'm not just talking about 3D printing, right? So what if I did want a store that was 3D printed or laser engraved or etched or- Custom t-shirt.

Or CNC'd or screen printed junk.com. What is it? Which store is that? Team U. Team U, you think so? Is there much 3D printed crap on Tmue? I have no idea. I don't think so. I was just tossing them under a little bit. I don't think so.

You can, like speaking of sites where they could go sell this stuff, you can third party sell on Tmue, for example. Fiverr, someone said? I don't think so. I don't think Fiverr. You can't browse on Fiverr. That's the the thing. Like I almost wonder if Etsy should like should still have a marketplace for this but like call it something else. Or something. Like do you kind of get what I'm talking about? Like it feels like there's a bit of a... because obviously nobody would be listing this stuff on Etsy if nobody was buying it.

So it's clear that there is a marketplace that exists and I think they should pivot to being like a second site for maybe micro services or something like that because the people on Etsy are our maker type people and I think what they're trying to target here is just like I own 15 3D printers and just make things or I own a laser cutter and make things that are random. But you segment that into a different website, which is just kind of like, Makering Services type things, and they can advertise all the random models

like Linus wants. If you take those out, though, if you split the service, you're going to kill the whole vibe like Linus wants. If you take those out though, if you split the service, you're gonna kill the whole vibe that Linus likes. Maybe, maybe not, maybe not, because honestly I miss the days of going on Etsy and being like, oh wow, that's a like totally custom bespoke thing that someone created. Me too, me too. So okay, why don't I give some context?

The last time I was like browsing on Etsy, I found it was actually, it was a 3D printed thing that I wanted to buy. And it was like a topographical Legend of Zelda link to the past world map. And it made me think about a lot of things. I wondered, you know, who had actually made that design, whether they were properly compensated. I wondered what the printing quality would be like, because it was clearly 3D printed

rather than injection molded. I wondered what the licensing and trademark issues were around Nintendo's obvious ownership of that intellectual property. And I didn't end up turning that into a Wancho conversation until this kind of sparked it. And so, you know, random pirated, you know, thing.com, right? What is the replacement for Etsy? And shopping, you know, for like cool shopping for like cool topographical wall maps and the way that Etsy sort of led me down a rabbit hole where I could find all these kind of

cool different designs? I don't know. I didn't end up buying one, but it was kind of a cool shopping experience. It might not exist in exactly that way anywhere else. I know exactly what you mean, though. And like Dan said, a lot of the times, unfortunately, that's going to end up being higher quality than the real first party stuff. But not always.

Sometimes it's just probably most of the time. All makers are not created equal. Yeah. Some of them are just 3D printing farms. Some of them just make little dumb trinkets that Linus likes. And where are you going to go? Yeah, so I don't know. That's the conversation that I wanted to have. There's some people who have kind of tried to give some suggestions. Someone said Tindy, but like they're really focused on like hardware.

But this kind of Etsy's brand now, isn't it? This is interesting. Etsy Hub is apparently for sale for just $2,500 US. Like honestly, that would kind of solve my problem. If Etsy Hub was just kind of like the dumping ground, and then Etsy- A little bit less policed. And then Etsy was just like the actual bespoke. Cause another thing that I think is going to happen to Etsy as a result of this that maybe is a good thing but could impact the shopping experience that Etsy users expect is that I suspect prices will go up a lot. I have oh yeah, I have an idea

What if you had verified type sellers so somebody who was like a maker maker? go go verified type sellers. So somebody who was like a maker maker, got a little check mark. How do you verify, man? Honestly, I like this concept that they're going down. I think it's impossible. I've been thinking for a while that like, I mean, I had this conversation with potentially both of you. My idea for an AI app, because of course, Tech Bro has an idea for an AI app, everyone's stunned. Have I given you this pitch? I don't think so.

I'll give it on the WAN show, because I don't think I'm gonna have time to do it, and I just hope that someone does. The name that I thought of was, you could shorten it to Lil Bro, or it's Little Bro. Little Bro. Or Lil Guy. Lil Guy. Lil Guy. Just my Lil Guy.

Specifically Lil Guy, not little bro. Little guy. Okay. That's the name. And the tagline is. It's a microphone and speaker that lives in your pants. Oh. And you can talk to it anytime you want.

Oh. Not micro guy. So you can talk to your little guy. No! Get out. No! No! I could have been talking about me, please don't fire me.

Oh man. Yikes. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, let's get back to the next one. This is why I'm not allowed to talk on the show. Silence! We need a mute Dan button. You have one! We have one, it's in the bottom left.

Oh, get wrecked. Okay, so, the name is Little Guy. Little Guy. The tagline is the anti-AI AI. And so when you're using it, it's like the system prompt or the base prompt or whatever, will have it recheck kind of everything it wants to suggest. And it's mostly based on the suggestions. So if you ask where you can buy a certain thing- So is it mostly based or fully based? Hopefully, hopefully it's fully based.

But it would try to find like small mom and pop brick and mortar options instead of major chains. And if you're doing research through it or something, it will try to detect if the text or the video or whatever resource that it's reading from or showing to you or whatever is AI written. It won't suggest it. So it tries to keep it focused on things that are real.

Real but small. And like our little guy. Yeah, it focuses on the little guy. It tries to help the little guy. I like that. Yeah, I think it's actually kind of sick. I don't know how much little guy. It tries to help the little guy. I like that. Yeah. I think it's actually kind of sick because- I don't know how much money there is in it. That's the problem. Probably nothing. All the ideas that are based and cool are not that profitable, it feels like.

Yeah. If someone wants to steal that idea, please go for it. Let me know that you did it. Yeah, do it. Or don't. We can sell it on Etsy. Yeah, but like it's something that I see people going towards is like verified made by people stuff. Right. And I think we're, I have a theory that we're going to see a rise of like a very like non-social tier of almost content creators, which is like people really just sharing evidence

that they actually made this thing. Right, yeah. Like do you get a video file along with your product? That shows them making it. Yeah, and you notice that one slight scratch on the corner. With the right number of fingers. And you can see the, yeah, you can see the timestamp in the video where that tiny accidental scratch happened

and now it's on your product and you know that it's real. Not that having more or less fingers is a problem as long as it's not AI. Yeah, exactly. Just throwing that out there. I think I have a theory that things are going to kind of maybe not that exact form, but I think real actually I know this was made by a person things are going to start going up in value for people. I do think so.

And I think there's a space, and that's why I'm happy that this is happening with Etsy. And I think there's a space for a little guy to be a thing if someone wants to make it. If nobody makes it, maybe I'll do it someday, but not right now. Speaking of AI, Google AI search and other AI chat bots appear to be causing a significant drop in traffic to news sites. So our sources for this are Futurism and Axios. The Wall Street Journal reports that the traffic being sent to publishers is plummeting as users are shifting to not clicking on the sources that are cited by AI search tools and chat bots.

This is so bad. Search traffic to Business Insider has reportedly dropped 55% between April 2022 and April 2025. As a result, Business Insider has cut roughly 21% of its staff last month, citing the need to endure extreme traffic drops outside of our control. Google and other AI companies will likely continue to see legal challenges in regards to scraping copyrighted materials. The news media alliance CEO stated, links were the last redeeming quality of search that gave publishers traffic and revenue.

Now Google just takes content by force and uses it with no return, the definition of theft. The DOJ remedies must address this to prevent continued domination of the internet by one company or a handful of companies, I guess, but that was a direct quote. According to CloudFlare CEO, Matthew Prince, 10 years ago, Google crawled two pages for every visitor it sent to a publisher. Six months ago, that ratio for Google was six to one,

while OpenAI was 250 to one, and Anthropic was 6,000 to one. Now for Google it is 18 to one, for OpenAI it is 1,500 to one, and for Anthropic it is 60,000 to one. Cloudflare is working on a tool that will obstruct bots that ignore no-crawl directives. We have even, I don't think we even bothered to implement no-crawl directives because we had absolutely no faith whatsoever that they would actually do anything.

If Cloudflare could implement this though, I guess we probably would, hey? But realistically, they've stolen the vast majority of the data that they could want from us anyway for something like the LTT forum. That's probably the greatest example of a treasure trove of data that we have and now every AI company has because they would have just scraped it from our site. So we've had discussions about this, turning on Cloudflare's version, so we have Cloudflare on all our sites. I don't remember if this is a known factor or if it's a theory.

I genuinely don't remember. But it was brought up that your ranking would be hurt by doing this. Oh, by not allowing crawling? Not allowing, yeah, this type of crawling, because they could still like page rank you and have you show up in results, but now you're less valuable to Google or whoever else. So maybe they just bury you.

Yikes. And then sure, you didn't get crawls, people would have to go to your website to get your information, but- Dude, original content- It might just go elsewhere. Original content is going to die. This is why we need little guy. This was the whole, this is the whole reason I thought of the solution. I just, I can't, I can't do it. It's not even the little guy. We need even the big guys to survive. I mean,

say what you will about, you know, news media and people have varying levels of trust in the varying news organizations. Is there maybe still a consensus that there is a place in the world for professionally sourced and curated news? But do we just want do we just want everything in low resolution videos on Twitter? If you look at if you look at how people use these types of tools, I think you're going to see people like if you ask them if you did a survey, we had a survey earlier in this show where we didn't necessarily grew the results of the survey.

If you did a survey and you ask people, do you think having actual news agencies is good and stuff? Probably there's going to be some people saying no, but overall I think people are going to be like, oh yeah, we should probably have real news still. And then those same people that say that are going to go and use AI summaries and move on because it's easier. And ultimately they don't care. We see this with vote with your wallet all the

time. Like is microtransaction monetization in games gone too far and is it like super definitely a bad thing? Oh 99% of people say yes. How many people engage with microtransactions in games? Enough. Way more than enough. So it's... I don't know. says real general journalism is a lost art It's now all meant to drive clicks sad face, but that's exactly what he just said Yeah, it's because people didn't engage. Yeah with real journalism. They just read the summary or they Because of user behavior Everything is driven by user behavior and wallets. Like it's here's a whole man. Here's a really spicy hot take.

I think a lot of Nintendo games don't have tons of micro transactions, right? Mm-hmm. I'd rather pay you bucks. Yeah, that is a hot take David actually Specifically said that in our switch to review and a lot of the really negative comments on the video are about that. Yeah Sure, and it's it's one of those things where it was interesting as David and I were working through that script One of the one of the challenges that we have now as an organization whenever we talk about anything I'm happy up the switch too. Yeah. I didn't say that at all. Calm down.

Why do you hate hot dogs? Yeah, one of the big challenges that we have is that as the perception of me has changed over time, it has become extremely difficult for me to make any kind of statement around value of a product. Or affordability. Like, I could look at something like the Switch 2 and be like, hey, these games are going to be, the unaffordability of these games could have an impact on the success of this console.

I could say something like that. And there would be a not insignificant number of people who would rightly make the observation that the $20 difference in the games means nothing to you, YouTuber scum of the earth. Right? And so one of the things that David and I talked through, so he wrote the script, and then I, in my role as editor, not video editor, but one of the things that, you know, David and I talked through, so he wrote the script, and then I, in my role as editor, not video editor, but editor of the script, went through it. And we kind of worked together on which paragraphs each of us would deliver, because we felt we both spent time with the console. And we both worked actually together quite a lot on the pre-release video that we did, kind of summarizing all the rumors and stuff. So David and I have been kind of like team switch

too for the content that we've done around it. And one of the things that we talked about is like, realistically, it would cause less of a complete storm if he was the one who delivered the paragraph with, it was actually, it was his take, but deciding who would actually read it because we worked together. I'm all about consensus building. We're not always going to agree on everything. And you might have noticed that in scripts in the past where I would say, yeah, the writer of this script felt X, I actually feel Y, take that for what it is, right? Pete Slauson It's fine, yeah.

Jared Slauson So, in this case, David and I actually agreed. And it was very much what you were saying. He was saying like, look, in the age of microtransaction hell, if what it takes for Nintendo, for it to be worth Nintendo's time to continue to create bespoke single player and couch, continue to create bespoke single player and couch, couch co-op and competitive experiences is another 20 bucks in their wallets. Then I'll pay it. Especially when it's for kids. I'm just going to pay for fewer of them.

Yeah. And maybe I'm going to, doesn't mean I can afford it. Just because I understand does not mean I can afford it. These things can be different. And, um, and it, and it was, and I think that if he hadn't been the one to say it, it probably would have faced even more backlash over it. Yeah, for sure. It's just like I... But that's a hot take now.

Like even just for the idea of not having that in the game, I'm willing to spend more money personally. I hate even seeing it. It actually bothers me. I'll play a single player game and go like, oh, I can buy more golden resources in this single player game by a microtransaction. I am now almost certain that my progression systems are going to be messed up. So it's way harder to get those resources because they want me to use a microtransaction system, or at least the developers were not necessarily given enough time to balance the resource income because it's not worth it as a company when players could just buy extra ones. That's immediately my takeaway. It's the same with

cheating, right? If cheating passes a certain threshold in a game, now you're suspicious about every single interaction you have, where it's like like no, I don't want to sit here and be suspicious about the game I just want to enjoy the game, especially if you're like Letting a kid play this game normalizing the idea of microtransactions to a child sucks So I don't know it is what it is All right, see people seem to have kind of chilled a little bit on this seems like it Yeah, my chat was frozen for a bit. Do you want to talk about more AI ad horribleness? Yeah, I love the I love our title and

Shadification. Oh, yeah AI ad products are here TikTok is rolling out a new AI powered advertising, or sorry, rolling out new AI powered advertising features, including the ability to upload an image of a product or write a short text prompt and produce five second video clips that can be used in an ad. It's part of TikTok's existing symphony product, which already lets advertisers use AI enhanced spokespeople avatars to help promote and sell products. It's interesting when a platform promotes the idea of replacing the creators on the platform. Amazon's improving-

What's not the creators so much as the advertisers? AI enhanced spokespeople avatars. I can see what you mean. So why pay a popular TikToker? But these would be like random. They wouldn't actually be like recognizable as a TikToker. Yeah, but like I think to a certain degree, what you're paying for is to end up in people's feeds. It's a blurry line. Amazon's improving their generative AI ad creation tool by allowing advertisers to create realistic

high motion shots of their products in use. Transform still images to movement with a single click and offer more creative options for brands of all sizes. The next one is not WhatsApp too. Ads are finally starting to appear in WhatsApp as of Monday. The only visible on the updates tab and the company says those who use the app only to chat with friends and family won't... What else do you do? I don't use WhatsApp that much. Won't see any change to their WhatsApp experience for now. Wahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahh you so practice did that reddit has a new tool for advertisers called conversion summary add-on it lets brads showcase positive Oh, never brands only Brad's it lets

Nailed it It lets brands showcase positive you suppose or sentiment summaries below their ad creative Great oh Great if your name's Brad, I guess Yeah, so I hate all of it. Yeah I the generative stuff for products is messed up because it's very often gonna get stuff wrong. What's up? How's it going? We're getting close. This is serious. Do you want, should I do the same? Nope. Okay you gotta tell me this though. Okay. We've talked about this

extensively on the show. We can be uncomfortable about AI. Yes. We can even hate it. Yes. We could think it sucks. Yeah. Okay.

We've also talked extensively on the show about how at the end of the day, cat's out of the bag, horses bolted from the barn, Pandora's box is open. Should we do AI ads for a transparent screwdriver? No. And I can explain why. Yeah. And I don't think it's just a knee jerk. Oh, hold on. I should finish. I should finish. Okay. The conversations that we've had in the past around now that it's out there is it's basically,

it's out there now. And we've talked've talked about how you know if you want to succeed in the workplace learning to use AI you have to you have to keep up so then I guess what I'm asking is as a company should we do what literally everyone else will be doing and use AI to pump out creative to market their products or should we not? I don't think so. And if you wanna hand it over, I can partially explain why.

Although I think this is gonna be true in some form for practically everything. With the, you're talking about the positives. It won't open right now cause the bits are all jammed. Don't worry about it right now. Don't shake it. Yeah, sure. You're talking about the positives of like the, I don't know what it's called, but the particular plastic that you used, that Nalgene also uses and whatever else. A lot of that's going to come down into the appearance.

Sure. Yeah. If you're using an AI ad, and I know there are AI ad generating services where you drop an image of the thing that you're selling, and it tries to use that image as much as possible, but it is going to manipulate that image. Absolutely. If you actually wanna sell your product

on the merits of your product, you need to have actual shots of it. Now, if we wanted to have like the intro of the video, the AI influence, and it doesn't show off the product, but it, you know, classic ad thing where it shows off like, oh, this horrible scenario that would be better if I actually had it. And then it goes into actual real coverage of the actual real product. I think that's fine. And I think we've already kind of done it. Is it or are we literally eating the snake eating our own tail? Or not the snake, but the,

are we eating our own tail? Because our job is to like- With where else we've done it? I mean, I feel like that's sort of ironic use. Where's the line? I mean, that's a good question. I mean, like that's why we're having this conversation because I mean, this is, here, this is from chat.

Where am I finding? Yeah, so Hathos says the world will be using AI for ads. You have two options. You can use AI today, or you can start using AI in a few years. My main line is when it could mislead or improperly influence the consumer.

Sure, I mean, well, okay, that we obviously wouldn't want to do. But companies are doing now. Sure. It is already happening. Because the AI interpretation of the product is not always perfect. This is really interesting to see people's takes on this because a lot of people's concerns,

I feel, are not really the questions I'm asking because there's no way that we would not have a human review something at some point to make sure that it is actually representative of the product, right? Like, to your point. Yeah, that's not what we're saying. Like, what did someone say? But even then, there's very, very small things that like one person reviewing a thing might not notice.

We have experience with this. We have a review process for videos internally. It can often go through quite a few hands, but there will be one really small thing that people don't notice. And 99.9% of the audience doesn't notice either. But that little point one, somebody will notice it, and then they'll mention it, and then everybody sees it from there.

Like many pandas says, AI hallucinates, it gets things wrong. And that's totally true. But in the case of like, you know, using it to generate a bunch of different, a bunch of different colors of backgrounds for like a product photo or something like that, it kind of

doesn't matter it does what's wrong in the background because hold on if you if you if the product photo is like was taken by an actual photographer and is the real product and you're just like you know what is the more eye-catching background color generating a layer yeah so it's not generating an entirely new picture, just the layer. Yeah. So, but, but, but, however, however, holy crap, we're a media company. Literally, we like, you know, do graphic design and, and, and photography, videography, and, and you know, you talk about like, AI, TikTok, spokespeople, and I'm kind of sitting here going,

wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on a second. If you want like a spokesperson for your tech thing or whatever, I thought that was like potentially my job, right? My line has always, I don't know if I can say my line has always been this, because we've been talking about this for a long time. But the line that I've been on for a long time now

is that you don't use its output. But you can use it as a research tool. You can use it as a Rubber ducky so there's the whole rubber ducky concept where you you talk about your issue out loud Until like an object or something because it can actually help you think through things I Use AI often these days, but I never use it to output. I'll ask it for feedback. Like I think a lot of names of products

might dodge international issues if they asked like, does this word mean anything in any other language? Because you hear about products like that all the time. So you could use it for something like that. Yeah, someone says read but verify. Not even, it's not even in verify. I don't use its output at all. Like I'll get it to, I'll input something to it

and ask it for its thoughts. Yeah. I don't use its output. If it gives me some thoughts, I might edit what I wrote, but I'm editing it myself. I'm not gonna ask it to edit something for me and then use its output. If it gives me some thoughts, I might edit what I wrote, but I'm editing it myself. I'm not going to ask it to edit something for me and then use its output. So I think, you know, someone trying to design an ad could use generative AI stuff to think effectively. And then I would like our creation to be our own. And the reason why I say that is because

you are effectively stamping this thing as it goes out the door. With the IBM quote, right? No computer should make a management decision because no computer can be held responsible. You're stamping saying that you can be held responsible. That's the way I see it. Right. So that's your job as a human. If I send you a message, do you think it's from me or if it's from generative AI? And if it's from generative AI, do I get an excuse? No, of course not. Exactly. So if we're going to put an image of one of our things up online, we have to stamp saying that we are owning the

Interesting. issues with this image. That's an interesting line. And for me, that just means, you know, I'm just not going to use its output. For someone else, that might mean they're going to go through with a fine tooth comb and make sure that they are genuinely fully okay with the output. And for a lot of people, they'll just take the slop and paste it. Most people are going to do that and there's already evidence of that. I have problems with that because, again, you look at the video review process, right?

We have a really in-depth video review process at this point that goes through a lot of people's hands, and it honestly takes a long time. It slows a lot of things down. And there's still a lot of stuff that makes it through. I did some video reviews today. I was on my phone during a graduating from one grade to the next grade stupid ceremony at the school. And I don't know between the two of them I think I probably had to make 20 to 30 corrections or something like that. Yep. And there's stuff. And to be clear that's with a world-class team. Yeah. Like actually though. Seriously. Like humans are human. And there's stuff that will get

through. Humans hallucinate too. Yours, yep. Fun fact. Big time. We all are right now sort of. That's a whole other conversation. Wait till after dark. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it can get through multiple stages of review process, including yours, including other people's. I've done it before. And then still have a minor error that goes out. So like, if that's true, I can't really accept... but this is why I won't use, honestly, I don't think I've thought this before, but I'm gonna say it now. Our own review process is one of the reasons

why I wouldn't use a generative AI's output, because I don't necessarily trust myself to spot every single little tiny individual potential flaw. That's fair. Because what we see often is that, like I said earlier, 99.9% of people aren't going to see this one little issue. But the 0.1% person does, and then they comment on it, and then everyone sees it, and then it's a problem. Okay, so I'd rather those be my problems. How's this for a potential like, sort of policy vision? Right? Because I don't know if we have a

clear internal policy on the use of AI. We've obviously used it a handful of times. I've had discussions within my own teams, but I don't think we do company-wide. So how's this for like a policy vision is like basically at the end of the day, it boils down to accountability. Yes. We wouldn't dictate to you whether you can use a hammer or a motorized drill to do that work. But what we will dictate to you is what the

expectations are for the quality of the output and what your responsibility will be for said quality and for said delivery timeline. So I think that is generally fair. However, however, you know, would we... It's not usually the individual's reputation that is on the line. Unfortunately, it's often yours. Well, yeah, because the audience just decides that every single thing that this over 100 person company does is actually just you. So then there's like, so maybe this line needs to be more aggressive than it seems on the surface, because in a way, we're actually protecting, like there's a lot of, there's a lot of output like that at the company, right? And it would reflect negatively on the company if somebody did just publish AI slop. And then do you really want managers to have to

micromanage to the point where they're combing through every single thing that everyone does all the time? It gets to be kind of a lot and has the same flaws as other things. So I do generally agree with the line that you drew, that I like that line. Well, it was based on your line. So, but the way that you said it, I like it. Thanks. I did good. That was, that's management. Yeah. You know, you take the, you take the employee suggestion and you reframe it a little bit, reframe it and, and this is my idea leadership. I think that's Maybe a bad lesson. That's what you learn in management 101 And I don't know if anyone in management ever made it past first year, so that's all anyone knows But yeah, I there is so I like the life they did they'd probably be engineers instead

No offense no offense MBAs are real degrees. Yeah. I like the line, but the unique circumstances that this company is in with certain things that we do makes it tough. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the thing, right? Is there's going to be in the tech savvy cohort that we cater to, right? There's going to be a lot of emotional elements to this as well. Yeah. Like I saw people in float-playing chat that are like, the second I see an AI generated anything

in an ad for an LTT product, I'm canceling my subscription. And it's like, you know, like fair enough, right? Like I can't. Already happened. Has it? We have AI influence in our ads. I guess not, well, has there ever been any for LTD products? I don't think so.

I guess it's just been external brands. Yeah. I'm not sure. And so, you know, I, so I'm, you know, duly noted. And I just. I have there's there's a conversation that happened in the lab. Yeah, we have people writing labs articles right now. Are we have a writer selected, but they haven't started yet. So we have non writers writing labs

articles. And honestly, in my opinion, I think they've been doing a great job. There's some really cool labs articles up, but the question came up of like, you know, I'm not necessarily a writer. Can I use this to help me? And we had a discussion, but it ultimately came down to like, your name is on the document. When someone's on the site and they're reading this thing,

it says written by you. If, and like not only that, but again, there's the perception of like if we're writing a thing about something technical, and no, this is not, okay. Don't try to read into stuff too much. This did not result in an employee action at all. read into stuff too much. This did not result in an employee action at all. If something is wrong in there, not only does it reflect negatively on the person whose name is on the article, which it will, absolutely, but it will reflect negatively on the company, it'll end up reflecting

negatively on you because of the conversation that we just had's, I don't like it. I don't like using its output. I don't want words that were output by an AI to end up in text on the labs website because it just shouldn't be necessary. Yeah. And like, absolutely, you can use its influence. You can use- Yeah, I mean you I know that you've done tone passes

I do tone passes literally daily. Yeah Always but it and it I'll even ask it like I'm not asking for a fixed version Just give me input and it'll be like if you want some help with that. Here's a rewritten version I just don't use those. Yeah, but use it for... What about an outline? Sure. Like there's... I use it for helping me with writing stuff all the time. But it's about owning the output. And the way that I do that to just kind of shortcut the question of it is, I just don't have it right for me. Some people might want it to right for them, but then you still have to only output. It's going to reflect on you. It will happen. I gotta say, it's interesting you talk about it that way because I've been trying to figure

out why I don't use it. Because I think you know that I don't. I still, I type it about a Because I think you know that I don't I still I type it about a hundred a hundred and ten hundred and twenty sometimes words per minute. So like for me, typing is not a major burden when it comes to conveying my thoughts. Like I type like not quite at the speed of thought, but like kind of as fast as I need to be able to. And I, oh shoot, I was going somewhere with that. It doesn't matter. The point is just that I've been trying to figure out why I don't use it.

And it's, I think what it is, is that the burden of checking someone else's work, right, right, right. That's where I was going with this. So typing is not a hindrance to me for getting my thoughts down. And so it's actually less work for me to put my own thoughts onto a page than it is to have someone else, in this case, an LLM, to have someone else, in this case, an LLM, you know, rearrange them or rewrite them or reword them in such a way that I will have to go through it with a fine tooth comb to figure out if there's any issues.

I wouldn't trust a rearrange personally. And so, I think you nailed it. I think the reason that I don't use it then is because, whether I made the decision consciously or didn't, it is actually a greater mental burden for me to check someone else's work than it is to simply output my own. Pete And therefore, most people won't and they'll just publish the output, which is why I ask it things like what it thinks of the tone of something, because it doesn't even give me output.

Well, unless it just decides it's going to. But then I just ignore that part. I just want its opinion on the thing. And sometimes honestly, I'll be like, I'm looking for this tone. Does it match that? Or I might not be looking for a specific tone. I'm just interested in what it thinks. So like, can you do a...

What is my line? can you do a... Man, what is my line? Can you do a... I have a specific prompt, but I don't remember off the top of my head. Sentiment. Can you do a sentiment analysis? There we go. Can you do a sentiment analysis on this? And then it'll let me know. And sometimes it'll be like, oh, I think it's too much this way or whatever, but I read its prompt and then I read my thing again and it's like, no, like this is just how me and that person communicate. So, I won't necessarily agree with it. Like, you shouldn't just take it as a for sure, but. DeKitacrosstheStreet asks, would humanize AI fix that? Truthfully, I have no idea and I kind

of don't care. Rest Assured says, it's much less work for me to read and understand than to write. I guess my issue with that though is that you still have to write. Like that's the thing. You still have to write if you want to fix it. And in some ways it can be more complicated. And take this from someone whose And in some ways, it can be more complicated and take this from someone whose literal job it has been for over a decade now, whose job it has been to take other people's output and then re-voice it into something that is appealing to the LTT audience. It is extremely mentally taxing to, and you've done script reviews with people. Oh yeah, I've done a bunch. I still do them actually. It is extremely mentally taxing and in many cases until you've invested

tens, even let's say tens of hours, at least tens of hours into training, there's absolutely no hope whatsoever that it will not be very burdensome to do it. And if there's something that you know you feel is very important to include, the odds that it will flow well from what they've given you to you being able to just kind of insert it and make minor changes is pretty low. And here's another sidebar thing. I think it's terrible at writing. Depends what you're after. Like we have a video coming up on that,

those WACO 48 gig 4090s that you can get on like eBay and stuff, so they're like modified with double the memory. And like, if you get it to just like write a goofy, you know, I can appreciate it for what it is. I asked it to write a short story about Nicholas Plouffe, the man who owned a display and his love of displays or something like that. And for what it was, it's quirky and funny and like I kind of enjoyed parts of reading it,

but you know, it's not artful. It doesn't have a soul. And so I agree with you there, but I don't know that it's bad. It's just not good. It feels... I... There was a test thing you and I did a while ago on could we detect which parts of something were AI written. And I nailed it, if you remember that. And for me, a lot of it is... And I nailed it, if you remember that. And for me, a lot of it is,

it doesn't feel human. Yeah. And I don't know how, and there's certain vibe checks, like there's the big dash, I think it's called N dash, that like almost no one ever types. And AI is just like obsessed without putting it all the time. There's like little things like that

where it's like a pretty surefire way to be like, okay, yeah. I have literally never once seen you in years that we've been working together use this one symbol. And you just used it throughout this entire document. And then there's a document that you made after that that doesn't use it ever. And I just don't believe it. There's little things like that,

that can tip you off. But there's also just a certain clunkiness that most humans communicate with. Yeah. Chemnetics says AI writes in Spock mode. Too perfect. Yeah. It really does. So that's usually what tips me off. And one of the, like, we've been talking when checking out these labs articles, which again, I think they've done a, I'm like surprised at how little input I've had to have, because they're actually just pretty good.

Of like, I've said quite a few times, like this is great, it's very human. And sometimes it's like, because you're bringing more of yourself to the article. Falloneth says, M dashes are apparently used by professional writers a lot. You know, the people that you would want to steal your training data from. That makes sense. That makes a ton of sense, actually. I use dashes when I write a lot too, Dan. But I use the small ones. I definitely

have idiosyncrasies in my writing. You'll see me use two periods a lot. Yeah, I've, I kicked that, but it took me years. So I, it's because our old prompter software could not detect special characters properly. and the version of Microsoft Word that we used the default setting back then when we wrote scripts in Microsoft Word, we use Google Docs now actually, but it would automatically turn three periods into a single special character ellipses.

And so if I put three periods after something, then it would turn into a special character that I would then have to manually go fix unless I remembered to change the settings on Microsoft Word for every computer that I ever sat down at to write something or do a script review and I was changing computers constantly. Always. Or I could just type two periods which would tell me that it was more than a period, it was like a longer pause, but it wouldn't change to a special character.

Yeah, yeah. And I use dashes for the same reason. I've never kicked the dashes habit because they're like a break or a breath for me, but in a different way than a period and also in a different way than two or three periods. Like, and I can't kick that one. I just, I will always do it.

Jamesh says, a flipping chat, I overuse ellipses. Like way overuse them. Nice. Uh, okay. I think that's probably enough talking about everything being terrible. I don't even remember the core topic. Oh yeah. Xbox and AMD join forces.

I don't think I care. Um, something, something actually let's push this to next week. Cause I think I do still care. Um, but I think that it's time to move to after dark. All right Actually if you can find a merge message for Luke real quick, I mean he's washroom All right, there we go. Let's see what I've got here. It sounds like you're sitting down. I was laying back.

Oh, okay. Okay. I got you. Ow. You okay? Yeah. Arm. Sorry if I'm waving it all over the place.

No, you're good. Look away, look away. You're good, man. I mean, just keeping on the same topic maybe is a bad idea. Linus and Luke, how do you see the future of gaming in this AI crazy world? Are we just gonna end up with games auto-generated

for each game or to fit them perfectly? That's interesting. I kind of hope not to be honest because to me that ruins the ability to like kind of suggest games to other people because if you had a particular experience but it's tailored to you that other person might not have that type of particular experience. I'm also honestly experience. I'm also honestly hoping we stay away from live auto-generated AI stuff. There's been a couple games where I've like been interested in that because you can often mod it in. Like I'm pretty sure there's a Skyrim mod that I

played with a while ago. Oh there were some interesting tech demos. I think that was back when the latency was super huge so So you'd be like, Hey, how's it going? Pause. But even are you doing the pause? Are you going to talk? I was going to. Okay. But it's fine. Okay. You get the point. Yeah. So there was like, it's good. How about you? Yeah, the pause thing would effectively be solved now, but it still doesn't, like, it still felt so unnatural. And I think it felt unnatural because of, in some cases, how natural it felt, if that makes sense. Like, I kind of want the game to feel like a game.

It's also hard to tune them perfectly. Yeah. Like, uh... Sometimes I'll just be, like, like yelling because it doesn't know the context. Who did the, uh, who did the emperor in oblivion? Oh, I think it was Picard. Yeah.

I can never remember his name. Super famous person. I don't remember who though. It's embarrassing. Didn't they give him like a 400 page backstory book? Yeah, it was intense. I don't know if that's true or not. I, I, well, I believe it from the team at that time.

Patrick Stewart, thank you. From the team at that time, I believe it personally. But yeah, I'm not feeling good about that. I'm feeling pretty okay about AI being involved in the coding and to be fair, AI has been involved in coding for quite a while now. And it actually doesn't really feel like it's a huge problem. It's one of the spaces where I think the developers

are pretty on board. Wow. What? That's a red hot take for me to come back. I don't think it is, genuinely. I actually know very few developers that are completely against it. There's also part of the problem Ban stack overflow too, yeah.

Part of the problem is the range. Like I know there's developers that are against like vibe coding where you're just asking it for outputs. What I'm talking about is AI assistance like in your development environment. That's been a thing for a long time and I don't know that many people that are against it. I'm sure there are it. I'm sure there are some, I'm 100% sure there's some. But there's a huge difference between like

assistance in your development environment and vibe coding where it's just filling stuff out for you. And then having the AI write the actual game the player is having fun with. Yeah, these are different things. There's people in chat saying like, yeah, autocomplete is super helpful. That's what I'm talking about. Like smart, auto-complete. I clearly walked in at the wrong moment there. Sure, yeah.

So like that I think is okay. I think we're seeing some issues with AI art in games where characters are inconsistent. I've seen some of that. I think there's also some issues with, in my opinion, any dialogue has been bad and I think will continue to be bad personally. Yeah.

Right, what else I got in here? Hey, wan.dll, what are the things that you regret doing or not doing the most throughout LMG history? Although this one has two questions in it. Normally we do one, so you can pick between the two. Is Antoine's car the most expensive thing that you've had to compensate for your staff? Oh man. What would be something that was really expensive that we had to comp? Andy's bed. Whose car? Uh, the Antoine's car. What happened?

It got hit by a wrench. Yeah, how did that happen Linus? Well, Nick threw it. Because I told him to. You were trying to get it on the roof? Yeah. If he'd thrown better, then it wouldn't have landed on the car. Oh my goodness.

Um. Oh yeah goodness. Um, oh yeah, my floor when it was damaged by Dennis, but I never actually replaced it. It just still has those deep scratches in it. That's not a comp. And that's mine. So yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean technically Linus Media Group incorporated would have comped. It's not my fault that happened. Dude, the fact that I took... Company owes you money, you gotta sue yourself. happened dude the fact that I took company owes you money You gotta sue yourself dude the fact that I took flack over that was so crazy. That's cuz you're Like me I was yeah, but no no that's not what I took flack over

Oh people were giving me a hard time because it was like I was criticizing Dennis for moving my furniture when I was the one who instructed him to do it, but I didn't he was hiding in my house Dennis for moving my furniture when I was the one who instructed him to do it, but I didn't. He was hiding in my house. Like that's the most watched LMG clip. And the number of people commenting on that video angry at me because if I wanted it moved properly, I should have hired professional movers. It's like insane. It's actually completely unhinged. This is why the AI summaries are gonna work. Because that's a, I think it's not even that long of a clip and people didn't watch it.

Yeah. Oh no, Dennis in the attic. Yeah, I went and put a foot through my attic. No, no, no, comping something has to be when like the company screwed up someone else's stuff and we had to replace it for them. I don't think that's ever happened with me. I don't think this happens often.

Yeah, I'm trying to think, like, in the earlier days... This is one of the reasons... But in the earlier days we just wouldn't have done it. Well, no, this is one of the reasons that I was always pushing, like, our earlier camera guys to not bring their own equipment to work. Yes, I remember this. Because I didn't want their stuff to get busted or damaged or whatever at work, right? Let's get Luke a new car paid for by LTD.

I don't even really want a new car and also LTD has never done anything bad to my car. I can't think of anything off the top of my head. I can't really think of much. I don't think it's happened much. No. As for things that I regret not doing, I regret not water cooling more editing workstations.

We should have done a whole room water cooling here. We still can. Still can. All right. Hi, WandaDLO. I work in safety. As you grew as a company and added CR, how easy or difficult did you find implementing formal safety processes? Or was it something you were aware of from

the start? Oh yeah, we were super aware of it from the start. Lots of formal safety processes back in the day. Man, if we were cutting something. Total safety. Yep. If we were up on the roof of a of a building speaking of whole room water cooling installing a radiator, I'm sure that we were wearing the finest of safety

harnesses. 100%. Yeah, it's been, I don't know, it's been kind of a mishmash. I feel like the pendulum is kind of yes one both ways We were very loosey-goosey in the early days, and we shouldn't have we should have done way better We're kind of lucky that we like have all of our fingers and functioning eyes Safety squints or a company issue yeah, he's talking about using clear tape as eye protection No Yeah, he's talking about using clear tape as eye protection No Yeah, I know that was him. There's no way I would come up with yeah that tracks It was I didn't actually think it was gonna actually protect maybe for dust. Yeah, obviously

Anywho then I think without Before we had like kind of learned like guidelines properly, we just kind of, it was like vibe safety. And I think we kind of overdid it a little bit. Like we had an employee at one point, they've been gone a long time, so you won't be able to guess who they were,

but we had an employee who would throw like a conniption, like a completeiption like a complete fit anytime there was an open flame near anything to do with anything and You know, I'm Like I'm talking having a candle on set you know with a person standing there with a fire extinguisher was like not enough for this person and it's just like dude I don't calm the fuck down pretty much it's going to be okay I that's not what I said I implemented a like no fire policy because I just like didn't really know how to deal with that yeah that's a pretty I mean we don't

really do that much with fire no No Samsung phones. Got him. That's a, wow, dated burn. That's good though. Very dated. Yeah, but a burn, for sure. He deserves it. You can, he's just relaxed. He's vibing at it.

I don't ding myself, that's not fair. It was his! I said it was a burn. Sorry, I'm out of it now. Nice. Anyway, I think since then, we've kind of like swung back the other way a little bit, and I think things are pretty reasonable these days. I can't promise that I'll always like, you know go get a proper

ladder to climb a warehouse rack or whatever but like yeah or install a projector Okay. Well, it shouldn't be other people So my line has always been I can basically do whatever I want because what am I gonna do sue the company? It's my own liability But I can't have people under my charge getting injured. So I will give people a pretty hard time if I see them like someone was going to ride that stupid go-kart from the wasting money on tech ads video without a helmet. And I was like, yo, no. And they were like, well, you did it. And I'm like, doesn't matter.

I'm putting you are. How do I say this? I'm talking as Linus right now. I'm putting me at risk. You are putting me at risk. But also lead by example. I know. I know.

I should do better. No, he's not wrong. No. He's not wrong. No. But also both of them. Yes. Yeah. No! But also both of them. Yes.

Yeah. No! I don't have a narcissist button for you, Luke. Yeah. Get rekt. Alright. Yet. Hello from Texas.

In your recent overclocking video you said Intel benchmarks higher than AMD. Is there any value left in synthetic benchmarks if they can't even show accurate relative performance? No. I mean, for years we didn't include 3DMark or any other synthetic benchmarks in our GPU reviews. My mouth is too dry to swallow these are horrible. Why do you keep getting them? You get them every time. You get the same thing every time. Yeah, they're just. We have a variety of snacks. There's something to settle my stomach

and they're not a lot of calories. Is there nothing else like that over there? Not really. Oh. That I saw. Got it. It's candy. They're figs?

Yeah. You know those fig bars? Those are a decent amount of calories, aren't they? Yeah, yes, that. I think we're out. Yeah, no, they're basically, they haven't been relevant for pretty much ever. I don't really know what to tell you. They can be somewhat of an indicator.

They're a data point. They're also, sometimes people specifically want to compete on that thing, which is fine. That's totally fine. And I guess there's value in that But technically representative of anything other than its own So he needs itself. Yeah, right I love Sorry, I love the opening of this. Sorry

Other than conduit. I wonder if this is the same guy replied to saying conduit. I'm sorry if that was me Hellmark says probably was Dennis left a week earlier than Alex and Andy not sure why he left it seems like it was on good terms It seems to me it was on good terms, too I'm actually I'm not it's his news to break, but I'm very excited for him. I don't think, yeah. I think he's still stealth mode. There then, Conduit, sorry guy. Do you guys have any home remodel tips?

Tech or not tech? My entire home is exposed right now. Possibilities are endless. Conduit. The dude. Conduit, I mean, I don't know what to tell you. The draw to just say conduit is so strong. Run the power now.

If you think about it for longer than, I'm gonna say five seconds, if you look at a spot and you think about it for longer than five seconds, would it be good to have a power outlet there? Put one there. It's like so useful. Or, or hear me out, put conduit there. Then you could put one there it's like so useful or or hear me out put conduit there then you could put anything there actually I don't think you can run high voltage AC

through conduit seems like a good idea paint goes a long way even though I've never done it I'm still gonna say that think about your heating and cooling yeah if you want to do like surround, you know, surround speaker setup or something somewhere, now is the time to run all the cables even if you like can't afford the receiver, you know, the like six thousand dollar Atmos receiver or whatever yet. That'll be six hundred bucks someday, so put the wires in. I like that. Which you could do with conduit.

See if my response was reasonable. I like that. Which you could do with conduit. See if my response was reasonable. I think it'd be cheaper to run the wires now than to run conduit everywhere you'd put a speaker though. Wires cheap, conduit is actually pretty costly to run. Anyway, okay. I just like conduit. Have you guys seen lossless scaling on Steam? You can use a second GPU for frame gen while your first one

does native work. Would love to see results with a 5090. We have seen it. We've been wanting to make a video about it for a while. We have not gotten to it yet. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry your tech tips are late. We will do it. Hi gang! Looking at getting my first house. Question for you guys. Would you get a retro house and modernize it or buy something with all the new tech already installed? Tough question. Why are you both doing this? Because I'm looking around. I don't know. I think in our area, it doesn't help that I don't know. I think in our area, it doesn't help that...

Like a lot of stuff, if you look at like idealized pictures of like cool places online, a lot of that type of architecture doesn't really exist in BC. Like at all. When I first started Worth My Realtor, he was like, do you have any ideas of what you're looking for? And I was like, well, I can send you like a bunch of pictures of things that I found online that I like. And I sent it to him and he legitimately broke down like, here are the reasons and the history behind why none of this exists here.

Cool. Oh, nice. Okay. BC is like kind of young. Yep. like kind of young and full of wooden structures, a lot of which the really old ones are like not in a great state. The 50 special. Because they're made out of wood.

Yeah, the BC box, stuff like that. So I don't know, for us, yeah, I don't know, it kind of depends. I would also look into the, I like the idea of retro house and modernize it personally, but there's a lot of problems with that. And you have to look into what are the particular difficulties with this house. And then one of the problems with that is that the market often moves really fast. So by the time you can like come up with an idea or a plan, it's gone. So it's, it's gone. So it's tough. I like that option more on the surface, but

it doesn't always feel like the most realistic. Andrew2119 has the solution though. Minus town. That is the solution, realistically, to all things. It's a good idea. It's a good idea. Hello, DLL. I'm a doctor and many of the hospitals I work in are now using AI to record patient encounters and help doctors write notes. I was wondering how non-med people felt about this. Good answer, Linus. It's a huge problem. I mean, okay, actually, you know what?

It's not like the stakes are very high Sorry, I tried to keep a straight face Wow, sorry, did I spit on you? No, I think it all got caught by your filter So let's try to see if I could see it because it was such a high volume. I think there's food bits. It was so much material It was such a high volume. I think there's food bits. It was so much material that came out. Sorry. No. I'll put it well.

I don't change Luke's filter very often. No, dictation is not fine. Dude, the number of times that dictation does not work and obscures the meaning of what I'm saying is wild. Like, literally, if dictation worked, then texting and driving should be a thing, because it should be able to just dictate to me whatever someone said, and I should be able to dictate back to it, and I should be able to carry on essentially a phone conversation with text. Except literally nobody has launched that, because literally everybody knows that that is not ready.

No, it's not good enough. I'm sorry, I can't even. Okay, carry on. Hey, Duke Dan and Dynas, love the content. Me and the SO just finished playing Split Fiction. Wondered if any of you have tried it. I tried it very briefly in the video with my son where he chooses a console, which is not out yet, but that was it. I literally played it for like three minutes. So not yet. It looks pretty cool though.

I have it. I wanted to play with Emma, just haven't really found the time yet, but we still intend to, it's not going anywhere. So that like- Classic Steam library building mentality. Oh yeah, fair enough. But that studio I think it is,

that has made what it takes to Split Fiction and something else. They're all these like co-op only games. Honestly, they're, A Way Out, there we go. Really cool. A Way Out was very fun, that was their first one. Yvonne and I finished Unravel 2 recently. It was fine. Sweet.

It's good. It's something to do. Yeah. Oh, I threw one out. I'll find it in a sec. WAN.dll. I remember when you used to give actual tech tips like registry and OS tweaks to make the user experience better. Do you?

Do you miss those kinds of vids and why don't you do them anymore? When the heck did that? When did I ever give a registry tweak? What Is that a thing is that an AI written Merch message Can you not attack our Geez, I'm sorry. Okay. So this is I felt bad after I said it. Geez. I'm sorry.

Okay, so this is always interesting to me. I mean, it's happened, but it was usually... So, do I miss giving tech tips? Okay, we've got a silly project that actually includes many useful tips for sound deadening. We've got a very useful tech tip for building a really great performance, inexpensive PC. Here's a fun project where we talk about basically just overclocking. Here's a review of a game console. I'd say that qualifies as a tech tip.

Switching to Mac for a month, I'd say there's a lot of tech tips in there, things that are good, bad about the Mac ecosystem. Summary of Apple's WWDC 2025. Here's some news about the new Xbox console. This is probably more entertainment. We do lots of tech tips. Oh, we got, we poked around in the registry in this one actually, showing how Windows Recall worked when they first launched it,

how it works now. Here's a GPU review. I don't know. It's a really interesting narrative that LTT is just entertainment. Just because something is entertaining doesn't mean that it is just entertainment No, I do not miss the days of us giving tech tips because they didn't go anywhere Here let's continue here's um Like like an AMD ultimate tech upgrade I'd say that's more entertainment didn't didn't you do registry? I'm assuming I didn't watch it. I'm assuming you did registry tweaks in the how to set up Windows property video. Actually, no, there's more to it than that. We did get into some some more advanced. Oh, wait, I think we did open the registry at

one point. Yeah, you're right. So we had to go back only three weeks to find two videos where we end up in the registry, evaluating best system integrator, reviewing a VR headset, looking at an evaporative style cooler with no pump. I don't know, it's really weird, the way that, and I think I contributed to it. I think it's just people. I think I contributed to it in a big way I think I talked about how you want to make tech entertaining. I Didn't say it's my fault entirely line. It's only not only is it entirely it is only Linus's fault

There's no one else's fault. You're right. You're right. If anything happens, it's because It's about me or something. No, I think, you know, I don't know. Hit me, Dan. Question for Linus. For semi-serious gamers who don't really do social games, what do you recommend? Steam Deck, Ally, or Switch 2? You don't do social games. You're semi-serious. Are you really considering a Switch 2? Yeah, that's weird. You want to spend that kind of money? Yeah, that's odd. Semi-serious, I mean, I don't know, get a Steam Deck. Steam Deck, it's such bang for the buck. The price is amazing. Yeah, like the Ally is ally is great it's more powerful piece of hardware

and you know especially don't discount the x ally xbox x xbox ally x whatever the one that's coming is called um you know that that's coming too but they're not price comparable right like if you just want to play a lot of games then steam deck is such a such a great package. Wave one OG backpack owner back for round two. Heck yeah. Has there ever been a service you've been banned from and if so why? CompTIA I guess. Club Penguin. Yeah, my A plus certification was rescinded when I talked about the experience of obtaining it in a video. I don't know, is that a service? That's the last thing I can think of that I've been banned from. I'm trying to think. I know I've been banned from things. I just don't remember.

I think I've been a public figure for so long that it's sort of inherently it's better to just not engage with me if you're if you don't like me rather than like ban me so probably there have been some some risk calculations I'm just assuming that remember my commuter backpack fell off my low coffee table and my laptop screen absolutely shattered. Are there any suggestions for better protecting the corners of a laptop when in the commuter bag? Ooh.

I mean, man, we... Like we do have the buffer zone in the bottom because we anticipate that people are going to you know, kind of drop their bags down a little bit, right, but Like I don't know what I don't know what to tell you it's not a pelican case, right so Like electronics is heavy. I high weight density mass density high density. That's the word I'm looking for They're high density. They're fragile I think I think be more careful with your stuff might probably be in order I had a packing sleeve for mine in a backpack

Yeah, that's true. You can get laptop sleeves and then you can slip the whole sleeve with the laptop in it into the into the thing but Taryn van Heemert used to always talk about reducing potential energy. Whenever he was going to walk away from a camera that was on a tripod, he would take it off and he would put it on the floor and I'd be like, you're coming right back. He'd be like, but it has lower potential energy there. And so I think reducing the potential energy of the things that you value in your life is probably the best advice that I can give here.

That backpack probably shouldn't have been on the coffee table. I'm surprised that it was damaged from that low, even if it wasn't in a backpack, but freak accidents happen. Or if you want to have fun, increase potential energy. Yeah, drop it from a roof next time. Yeah.

That'd be fun. It'd be more entertaining. Onto an employee's car. Hello there. What is stopping Nvidia from always displaying the default amount of ROPs instead of the really available number in tools like GPU-Z. Also, discount free yearly float OG payment, please.

Yearly, yeah, we'll do it sometime maybe or not. Sorry, I am not aware of there being a discrepancy between the number of... What? There's a discre Sorry. There's two different numbers for like the like the operations pipelines. Am I missing something here? Sorry, I have absolutely no context for this. I lasered more in on the float plane side of it. Displaying the default amount of ROPs instead of the really available number in tools like GPU-Z.

Livin says, he's talking about when the GPUs were missing ROPs, so those 5090s, okay. Why couldn't they just fake the output in GPU-Z? I truthfully am not the developer of GPU-Z, and I don't know exactly how they measure all of this metadata off the card. That's a wonderful metadata off the card. That's a wonderful question for the developer. Super cool, very interesting. Any updates on the Zuck shirt?

No. Hey Luke, Luke and Dan, thoughts on Sam Altman's take that AI outputs should be private, similar to doctor-patient confidentiality or attorney-client privilege? Sure. It feels like a can of worms with a lot of potential for unintended consequences.

I mean, generally speaking, sure, yeah, pro-privacy. Yeah, we... Okay. of potential for unintended consequences. I mean, generally speaking, sure, yeah, pro-privacy. Yeah, okay. But also, like, is he just trying to shield his own company from liability for something that his AI said to somebody potentially? Most likely. Like, why am I protecting open AI's privacy? I was trying to figure out what this statement really means because you can just run an AI locally and then... Because notice he's not advocating for the user input to be private.

So why do I care? No, actually, I am reversing course on this one. I don't care about Sam Altman's privacy. And I want AI companies to be held accountable for potentially negative consequences in cases of, say for example, encouraging self harm. You could derive, you could derive, you could often derive what the input was from the output. Sure. Pllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll 17 hour WAN show. But good question, to be honest. Great question. Hey DLL, is the OG backpack updated with the two bottom layer or is it the singular going

on 20 days waiting on it in the US? I believe all the ones shipping today should be dual layer. But I'd like to remind everybody that all of the ones that did ship with a single layer carry the Trust Me Bro virtual dual layer guarantee. So if for whatever reason your single layer rips through or wears through is really what we'd be talking about. If you like put a knife through it, like I did, no amount of two layers would prevent that.

But if it wears through, we got your back. Adam says all dual layer since mid 2024. There you go. And remember the Trust Me Bro, it is specifically Linus. There's no one else here that oversees anything that could potentially have anything to do with the products. I mean, when it comes to major expenditures like changing warranty policy or whatever else,

I generally do get consulted on it. That's actually fair, I guess. G'day, humanoids. Specifically, Luke. Oh, what up? Any chance of opening up some small projects on GitHub for Float Plane so that community members can help with debugging and improving Float Plane?

Much ADHD love. Every time I talk about this stuff, people get really angry. Just say it's complicated. Next question. it's complicated. Next question. It's complicated. Before I go next question on it, managing those things is overhead. That might be honestly enough to explain it. I understand that people would want us to do it. We have some stuff that is open. A lot of the labs work is open. You can go check it out. some stuff that is open. A lot of the lab's work is open. You can go check it out.

We also contribute to open source projects ourselves, but just making our stuff public and then needing to look over other people's contributions. This is actually very recently. I mean, we we've been talking about AI, a surprising amount on the show today, this has very recently become a big problem because people have been contributing to open source with AI slop. And it's taking senior developer time to sort through or maintainer time. I should really say it should take, it takes maintainer time, sometimes very senior maintainer time to sort should really say. It takes maintainer time, sometimes very senior maintainer time to sort through all of this AI slop

contributed garbage. And basically he's telling you guys you're not skilled enough to contribute to Flowplane. We're a private company. And as much as there's more features that I know people want and there's problems here, there and stuff like that, we'll try to figure it out the team is really small and we are aiming to hopefully try to expand a

little bit soon here and the mental burden of checking someone else's work compared to doing your own I'm not about to ask my people to do that when they already have so much work. Yeah. Linus, you sent me a DM. I did. Do you want to show that off before or after the last message? Let's do our last message first. Message to message. That's true, I'm last to message.

Hello, Linniluki Dan-y? At least it's not Dinnidookny dookie land kid it doesn't matter Yeah, I get better when dookie get better on the insults and my blind or a rax studs gone from LTT store They're gone. They decluttered the store They moved really well when we first launched them and then they like stopped moving so we were like, okay now what and then we discontinued them and then I Have a picture would you like me to show the picture? Yes. Oop!

What? Ooooooo! Ooooooo! Looking good! Looking good! So the... I bought the decals. Okay, I was gonna say, how do you get the lettering back on? But I guess you just... Okay. How did you get all that orange peel? That's gotta take real skill.

Okay. He's gonna come over and kill me. No, I know. It looks beautiful. No, no, that was a joke. Oh, there's a ton of orange peel. Okay, no, I was just being mean. And honestly, this is one of the better looking pieces.

To paint dummies, can you explain what orange peel is? Orange peel is a non-smooth texture in the surface of the paint that looks kind of like the texture of an orange peel So instead of being Like mirror like in its smoothness it has little ripples in it and it is the mark of an inexperienced Paint sprayer operator and or suboptimal conditions. Which is why I said that to be only mean. Oh yes, oh yes. Not knowing that there was orange peel, I'm sorry.

No, dude, it's a 10 foot job. It's a 10 foot job, I'm resigned to that. Anyway, I found this really cool company in the UK, I think, that specializes in basically just having vinyl paper and just like having a having vinyl paper and Just like printing stickers I paid like 80 or 90 dollars for These stickers and then a handful of others that go on the bike But their whole schtick is that they have the graphics for like basically every vehicle

So if you want to redo a bike like this, those vinyl stickers are actually under the clear coat out of the factory, so there is no way to like remove them and salvage them or something. So you just you like sandblast them off and if you want it to look factory except a different color, then you have to you know go you have to produce them yourself or you have to, you know, go, you have to produce them yourself or you have to like go find it. And most of the graphics, I shouldn't say most, but some of the graphics are more complicated than just the letters S-U-Z-U-K-I. So yeah, so I ordered custom decals from them and I actually think it's, I think it's going to end up looking pretty, pretty factory.

I'm very excited. So that's with my one clear coat on it. And then I've already done two shots of clear coat on all the black, which means that the very last thing left actually would have shot two coats on this. But the reason I couldn't was because a couple little fluffs got on it and it was still tacky. So I couldn't remove them without damaging what I had put on it already. So I need to wait for it to cure. Then I can like get those fluffs out. I'll hit it again with clear coat and then I am done.

The shop says I will ride in July. Nice. Which is pretty exciting. So it's just a API front for now, but no key made a Version of the little guy app Wow, that was quick this is vibe code used he used comic sans which makes me deeply deeply happy Yeah, and yeah, I want to try that soup. Okay Yeah, do we we don't really like have like someone whose job is to like do when show things at this point, do we? like have like someone whose job is to like do WAN show things at this point do we? Um, I think it'd be pretty cool if we ate that. No, not- you have other jobs! I mean we kind of used to have someone whose job was to kind of like prep things for WAN show and we don't really right now. Ask Vance to do it. Yeah, we could. Okay, we should eat soup from there. We should see how well did the little guy pre pre pre pre pre alpha do.

Yeah, I want to eat that soup next WAN show. Sweet. Okay, Dan, do you mind arranging that with Vance maybe? See, there you go, now you get it. Dan, can you delegate please? There you go. There we go. Now you're learning about management.

I came up with this idea somebody else do it San someone else do the outro we'll see you again next week same bad time same bad channel. I'm just I'm just outsourcing my My subcontracting yeah Someone the way I should just build little guy. I don't know what's going on. Bye It's a overlay of the whole whole screen