The WAN Show - Unity? More Like Divorce - WAN Show September 15, 2023

Starting point is 00:00:00 And welcome to the WAD show! We've got a great show lined up for you guys today. Unity! Introduced in Stolfies. Literally everyone hated it. I mean, I hated it. Me too. Dan? Dan, did you hate it? Oh yeah. Hands up. Dan hated it. Why is his hand not up? Ah, there we go.

Starting point is 00:00:20 Okay, that's it. Oh, he's got two hands. Dan, you can't vote twice! I'm very very very against speaking of voting california has passed a right to repair bill that actually looks kind of decent ish uh yeah what else we got this week uh bungee cheater legally barred from all bungee games how is that even possible how do you ban i say bungee cheater destiny to cheat how do you ban someone from playing your games i mean i guess i I mean I'm sure we'll talk about it what else we guard also I want to talk about this because it's just so freakin cool and I'm gonna pick the topic because he's an investor and I'm

Starting point is 00:00:54 not but framework gaming handheld oh I know I made their own I know I know it's actually like one of the coolest things I've seen in a really long time so I really want to talk about it all Alright, we're going to do that then. I don't know what's going on. It sounds like a good one. Alright, why don't we jump right into our headline topic today on tuesday unity announced the unity runtime fee which will be charged to developers every time a unity game is installed starting in january of next year the fee only applies to games that meet both the revenue and installation thresholds.

Starting point is 00:01:50 So you can check the fee schedule by clicking this link that I haven't provided to you guys, but it's definitely in my document. I'm sure if you Google it, you'll come up with it. After which, they will be charged up to 20 cents per new installation. Not retroactive per new installation not retroactive new installation that is i i i i don't want to use the bleep button too early in the show but that is somethinged up oh yeah absolutely this is like the most abusable system i think i've pretty much ever heard of in this field free games with no monetization will be exempt, but in the wake of the announcement,

Starting point is 00:02:27 hordes of developers have pointed out that the new fees could be absolutely disastrous for low-cost or free-to-play games with large player bases but limited revenue. Such games could wind up owing more money than they make. Devs also raised the possibility that angry players could punish developers by repeatedly uninstalling...

Starting point is 00:02:49 Oh, my word. I thought it was per new install... No. Every single time? Yes. So I could uninstall and reinstall a game. So that's why I said this would be the most abuseable system.

Starting point is 00:03:04 What is the possible justification for this? They don't even pay for the bandwidth. And you know how gamers are, right? Even Valve doesn't charge for every install. No. And they're the ones actually ponying up the bandwidth. Yeah. What possible justification could...

Starting point is 00:03:18 Sorry. And think about how... No, we're not done yet. We need to get through the thing. Think about how passionate gamers are. No, no. We get through the thing. Let's get through the thing. Okay. I was... are. No, no, we get through the thing. Let's get through the thing.

Starting point is 00:03:25 Okay. I was, okay, I was mad enough. And I thought this, I don't know. I don't know what I thought it was. That just didn't seem possible. That it could be that stupid. I just didn't. Okay, hold on.

Starting point is 00:03:38 I think they've walked that back. Unity says this kind of abuse would be addressed by their existing fraud detection system well okay so what you're gonna take care of me this is basically the mob telling you that oh don't worry we're gonna make sure that you know johnny two-step doesn't collect protection money too many times this month what are you talking about which by the way i don't think they ever actually give any details on how that works i'm supposed to trust you yeah after you just several indie game devs have announced that they will be switching to other game engines or pulling their games from sale as of as of 2021 oh sorry from sale this has a semicolon as of 2021 unity claimed that its game engine was used to develop approximately 50% of all games.

Starting point is 00:04:28 Redditors discovered that Unity Technologies silently deleted a clause in their licensing agreement that would have exempted games released before the new fees take effect in January. Then, Unity deleted the GitHub repository that tracked such changes. This is incredibly scummy. This just keeps getting worse. Oh, yeah. And there's still like two more. Oh, goodness gracious. There's still four more paragraphs to read through.

Starting point is 00:04:58 It probably gets better. It doesn't get better, does it? A little bit, actually. Okay. better it doesn't get better does it a little bit actually okay the likely motivation for this change is that unity hasn't had positive revenue in any financial quarter over the last three years and lost nearly a billion dollars over the past four quarters oh okay much of unity's income comes from helping sell mobile game ads which is typically volatile and has been hit heavily by recent privacy initiatives.

Starting point is 00:05:26 There has likewise been controversy over Unity Technologies' leadership, including CEO John Riccatello. I think two Cs. Yeah, whatever. I'm really bad with name pronunciation. So John, apparently selling large amounts of Unity stock in the two weeks

Starting point is 00:05:43 before the announcement of the new fees. So did, by the way, a lot of other key actors at the company, not just him, but yeah, keep going. Yeah, so this is a guy who, during a 2011 investor meeting, floated the idea of charging players a dollar to reload their gun. To be clear on that statement... That's probably a joke. Not 100%, but to be clear on that statement,

Starting point is 00:06:02 it was, I believe, yeah, it was an unofficial recording of a meeting, and he was saying if you're like six hours into a play session, and you go to reload your gun, and it asks you for a dollar to pay for it, you are in a position where you are more likely to accept that payment. I see. Which is still hyper scummy but accurate I guess slightly different I don't know that's going off of memory I think it's slightly different than that but it's it's yeah it's since the backlash

Starting point is 00:06:34 started unity has clarified some things they expect that 90% of their customers will not be affected by these changes okay reinstalls fraudulent installs what is a fraudulent install piracy i don't know trials demos and charity bundle installs will not be counted as a new install so what is it are we going to see a fresh resurgence in humble bundles then because is that is that a charity install if it could there's some amount of money partially charity i don't know um web and streaming games don't count okay so i'm having a hard time figuring out what does count so is it just on the first install in which case no well if a reinstall doesn't count well i think that was um if i remember correctly

Starting point is 00:07:28 this was yeah so this is clarified or whatever i believe it originally fully included reinstalls and then they walked that back that's why i said i think it's gotten better because i do think that has happened riley saw tweets from some developers who apparently met with unity representatives and said they have a little bit of hope again. So we'll see what Unity has to say next week. But I think that if we were going to put together a picture. Okay, sorry. D Hollinger, I think this is correct, which is why I'm calling it out because I've read this elsewhere. They walked back the every install language, but the walking back walks it back on a single device.

Starting point is 00:08:04 But the walking back walks it back on a single device. So every single time you have a new device, that would count as an additional install. I suspect this doesn't necessarily mean new device. I suspect this means effectively operating system. Like I bet you if you have a computer and you reinstall your operating system, I bet you it's going to ding again. I don't know that yeah it's hard to say because microsoft manages to get the licensing for windows to tie into the motherboard id somehow definitely possible for them to do that yeah it's just a matter of whether they would want to exactly yeah yeah and i think the bigger question is especially see okay there is a big difference between doing something

Starting point is 00:08:47 and then it being a mistake and you walking it back and you know okay you know fine that's one thing and preemptively covering your tracks and then doing it i also okay so yes i i think them doing this in the first place at all is super scummy. Right. But they preemptively covered their tracks. It's like. It's like if you did something. And someone found it in your Chrome history.

Starting point is 00:09:16 And you're like. I didn't know I wasn't supposed to look at that. You kind of go. Okay. But. If you walk in. And they're in an incognito window. And you're like

Starting point is 00:09:26 Okay, not only were you doing it, but you're trying to hide it Exactly makes it worse. Yeah, that's that's what I'm that's exactly what I mean. I mean you're I mean you're okay. I I didn't think this through defense doesn't really Work rings kind of hollow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah for sure. Yeah It rings kind of hollow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Was I going to say... Someone's saying there's no excuse for this.

Starting point is 00:09:49 Please don't even try. Did I say there's an excuse for this? Neither of us are trying to excuse it. Nobody said that at all. What I said is that trying to hide it ahead of time makes it worse. I didn't say that doesn't... I didn't say that it wasn't already bad. And what I said was that it has...

Starting point is 00:10:03 The situation has potentially improved. not that it's good now Improved doesn't mean good to be very clear there's been a lot of a lot of major pushback One that I thought was pretty interesting. It's from Oh my goodness. I can't use Twitter properly on this computer. Oh, I signed in okay Look up slay the spire or I think their company name is mega crit Mega crit yeah, I'm a good if I thought of it. I'd have named my company. That's a cool company name pretty good

Starting point is 00:10:35 Yeah, okay, make a crit here we go All right, what am I looking for um? They should have a tweet fairly recently I got it. Okay, okay cool. Oh, fairly recently. Uh, I got it. Okay. Okay. Cool. Oh, you've, okay, sure.

Starting point is 00:10:49 Well, you're on it. Yep. There we go. Oh, we can't see it all, but close. The Mega Crit team has been hard at work these past two plus years on a new game. Their, their first game, as far as my understanding goes, which is Slay the Spire, just killed. It sold a crazy amount of copies of an amazing game. Oh, there's a big swear word on the screen, actually.

Starting point is 00:11:07 You could use us to cover that up. That's fine. I'm over it. It's true what they said. They've been at work these past two plus years on a new game. But unlike with Slay the Spire, the engine we have been developing it in is Unity. The retroactive pricing structure of runtime fees

Starting point is 00:11:22 is not only harmful in a myriad of ways to developers, especially indies, it is also a violation of trust. We believe Unity is fully aware of this, seeing that they have gone so far as to remove their TOS from GitHub. Despite the immense amount of time and effort our team has already poured into developing our new title, we will be migrating to a new engine unless the changes are completely reverted and TOS protections put in place. We have never made a public statement before. That is how badly you f***ed up. Which I thought was great. I thought that was very well said, to be honest.

Starting point is 00:12:00 Yeah, they leave the door open for Unity to fix this. Yeah, which is good. Which is good. Yeah, they leave the door open for unity to fix this. Yeah, which is Good, which is good. Yeah, but they also make their stance on it very clear and like Yeah, it's also like a big move to Abandon two years of development. It's not really because like some of it's gonna be able to transfer over but not everything I Don't know some people have made I always forget how to pronounce it how do you say it Dan what go dot Godot Godot okay

Starting point is 00:12:30 sure um some people have made as far as I know unity to Godot like transfer tools to help you migrate over which is cool um this has got to be great for Godot so just uh just a quick just a quick correction which is cool. I think this has got to be great for Godot.

Starting point is 00:12:48 So just a quick correction. Someone in Twitch chat said that the premeditation is the difference between murder and manslaughter. It's actually the difference between first-degree murder and second-degree murder. Is that an American thing, though? I want to clarify that. It's definitely a Canadian and American thing. I don't know about elsewhere in the world, but here, I actually also don't know about Mexico, but

Starting point is 00:13:09 as far as I know, Canada and the US, first degree murder is premeditated. It's planned. And that's really, really bad. Second degree murder is also really, really bad because you definitely still intentionally killed someone.

Starting point is 00:13:30 But there is some room difference between premeditated. There's a little bit more leniency for, you know, in particular, something like a crime of passion, which could take place in a time when someone is understandably in a very intense emotional state, such as, you know, walking in on a on a loved one cheating with someone or something like that. You know, there's a bit more leeway in terms of sentencing there compared to like, you know, you've got like a whole drawn out plan and you've clearly been working on this for months. You are a cold blooded killer.

Starting point is 00:14:03 And then manslaughter is without the intent you you didn't intend but someone's still dead so you got to pay the price you'll probably often see that in like automotive accidents and stuff yeah exactly that sort of thing so so we're talking about the difference between being a cold-blooded premeditated killer and you know murdering someone but like I it was an imp it was it was impulsive you know you were it was in the heat of the moment or something like that now I have an interesting called it moment how much

Starting point is 00:14:36 should we charge them to reload their gun and kill again a dollar yes Chris Rock it'd be like $5,000. Yeah, yeah. Or what was the bid he did? How much does Chris Rock think bullets should cost? I forget. Anyway, go ahead.

Starting point is 00:14:53 Yeah. We talked about John, don't fully know how to pronounce his last name, on WAN Show before. Because we talked about when he first got the job at Unity. This was a show a long time ago. I don't know, three years ago, whatever. Because at the time, and the quote about the paying to reload your gun thing was when he worked back at EA. Oh, of course he's from EA. That makes sense. Yeah. So we talked about how he went from EA to Unity and we talked on the show about how

Starting point is 00:15:20 we thought this would be a really bad thing. So as much as I'm not good at it, and I just dabble as a hobby, every once in a while I play around with game engines because I think they're just interesting. I used to mess around with RPG Maker when I was like 12, and I just still mess around every once in a while, see what I can do. I used to mess around in Unity, and when we covered that news on the show,

Starting point is 00:15:43 I switched to messing around in Unreal Engine. Because I was like, this is going to go bad. I'm out. Not that my stake in this matters at all. Yeah, he'll never make a game. No. No offense. No, I won't.

Starting point is 00:15:53 Yeah, I know. I have no intention to. I just find it fun to mess around with. But yeah, like, I don't know. This was definitely going to go poorly. Now, there's been some interesting reddit threads and a lot of this is still developing so i i i think the the wansha writers did a great job to be very clear but i i don't think this is in here because i think

Starting point is 00:16:12 this reddit thread is like super new but there's an interesting reddit thread talking about how they think it's less of maybe maybe some of but it's less of john's influence and it's more of the new board's influence because unity went open can i public whatever yeah can i jump in and kind of um advocate for unity for a second here oh boy they're losing money what should they do this is definitely the wrong way to do it yeah i know, but we agree on that. I don't know enough about game engine models. I've always thought they're a little weird. Yeah, I mean, I know that Unreal is considered more expensive.

Starting point is 00:16:57 My understanding of Unreal's licensing fees is that, like Unity, it doesn't really cost until it costs yeah so they they my again which i would actually defend that i've always thought that's kind of yeah i've always thought that that's pretty cool so it's in the same way that gaming companies milk their whales the gaming engine companies milk their whales whale milk i mean it's a thing probably think star wars someone's probably someone's probably consumed it. Do you think it's any good I? Mean game companies love it Yeah, so I'm just gonna derail completely and go to

Starting point is 00:17:41 So this is this is unreal engines set. So standard license is free to get started. Very cool. And it says on it, best for small teams or projects, hobbyists and learning. And I have always loved that these tools are free for learning. That's like kind of wild to me.

Starting point is 00:18:00 Like I don't think you can get Photoshop for free for learning. Nope. I think SolidWorks finally has a much... No, no, no. Hold on. They have a much, much less expensive version, but you cannot commercialize it for more than $2,000 US.

Starting point is 00:18:19 Or you cannot make more than $2,000 US using it. I have no idea how they enforce that. Maybe they have some way, or maybe it's an honor system. I'm not sure. I guess if they catch you, you probably get in lots of trouble somehow or something. But no, they at least have an affordable one now. But I only bring it up because my understanding is they basically had nothing before.

Starting point is 00:18:46 And I can't think of another industry where you basically just, unless you're in school, where you can basically just as a hobbyist, as a self-learner, just use the tools for free, like the full fat professional versions of the tools for free. Now, to be clear clear not every game design tool is free for for you to just use i mean uh nobody's gonna let you just use maya for free

Starting point is 00:19:12 but at least the engines themselves are accessible to to individual hobbyists um so you were you were having a look at the unreal pricing tiers when do you have to pay then um okay standard license for creators and publishers who don't require premium support or So you were having a look at the Unreal pricing tiers? Yeah. When do you have to pay then? Okay, standard license for creators and publishers who don't require premium support or custom terms. Also suitable for students and educators. Free to get started. Free to download and free to use in many cases. See the FAQ when royalties apply.

Starting point is 00:19:38 Okay, so we're going to have to dig through that. Includes the engine, the entire Quixel Megascans library, all learning materials, which are very good. That's the part that I enjoy doing these days. It's just going through the learning things and just having fun, having it guide me on how to use the tool. And community-based support. So I don't know what's in the FAQ, but I think it's like they skim a certain percent on sales, something like that. Yes. And then, wow, I didn't i didn't notice that i i complain about

Starting point is 00:20:08 per seat pricing for us uh enterprise program for non-games professionals seeking premium support private training and or custom licensing terms that sounds very expensive it's 1500 per seat per year per year oh that's per year actually makes it a lot easier. I'm used to seeing those in per month. Yeah, that's not as bad as I thought it would be. Yeah, because just G Suite is like $300 a year. Yeah, and I don't... Do we get any support? Actually, yes, but honestly, I think that's because they know who we are.

Starting point is 00:20:42 Oh. I think. Well, we don't know for sure. Let. Well, we don't know for sure. Let's just say we don't know for sure. I will say the support that I've had from Google recently, like very recently, has actually been amazing. There's two people at Google that have been extremely helpful recently, helping with the merge that I'm working on and stuff like that.

Starting point is 00:21:00 They've been awesome. So, yeah. And it scales up from there. I have also heard that unreal is the the expensive one um and i don't know how to i don't feel like diving into their faq and stuff like that but i as far as my understanding goes it is the expensive option um and that is a lot per seat that does say for non-games professionals uh for for game development professionals it's a custom license that they don't show a price for uh it says negotiable terms so you probably have to

Starting point is 00:21:30 talk to them uh so i don't know one interesting thing though good dough i say right good dough is it free cool just free free and that's what people are rushing towards as far as i know i saw i saw people in chat point out that unity has paid its executives exorbitant amounts of money like someone threw out the number 150 million dollars which is obviously gross when they're losing money i i don't personally see why executives should make money when the company is not making money and they're one job you have one job you don't you don't actually code anything your job is to make sure the company makes money um so it okay but i do want to point out that that still doesn't fix the problem you have a one however many what was it they've lost a billion dollars in the last four quarters you have a billion dollar hole in the

Starting point is 00:22:24 boat you're not going to plug it with 150 million dollars was that 150 million dollars executive pay for one person or the whole suite that was a whole bunch of them i don't know if it was the whole suite but someone said yeah a bunch of them uh made like 150 million dollars or something like that unreal is five percent royalty over one million usd yeah okay so let's so let's go so let's go back to unity then it doesn't actually sound that bad and i'll pose my question again what do they do they are losing money we i think we all agree we don't want them to go after the very very small devs who are just scraping by with a team of three people or whatever else

Starting point is 00:23:00 they so they they have to extract more money from the devs who are selling a lot of copies of their games i mean is it is it i i mean i have a couple of ideas but i just i just want to know what would you have them do because they obviously are going to try to extract more money from the bigger devs who are using their product. But how should they do it? I have to break down their whole thing and try to analyze it. But the price per install stuff is, I know this is not the answer you're looking for. It's just not the path. I know, but...

Starting point is 00:23:34 I know, I know, I know. But these things, I think the problem with answering this is that licensing and fee setups that are negotiable are very difficult to figure out on the outside yeah because like what i would say is like things like bandwidth contracts at big cdns and all this other type of stuff is they're always cloak and dagger completely opaque i i know people personally uh and this is i'm not talking about them i know people personally, and I'm not talking about them. I know people personally that have gotten over 50% discounts on what is publicly shown on sites. Yep.

Starting point is 00:24:10 So, like, it's all just... Smoke and mirrors. Yeah. None of it matters. So, when we start getting into these enterprise tiers where you are negotiating, like this Unreal thing. Oh, for professional game development? Yeah, there's no public number contact us and we'll negotiate a term that how do how do we even comment on like we have no idea

Starting point is 00:24:33 what people are actually paying well there's one thing that we can comment on i'll say this much um if unity wanted to increase their take from from developers, well, they should have done it on a going forward basis. Also that. So if they wanted to, and again, I'm not going to say that per reinstall is the right way to do it, because any time that the developer is charging once when the game is purchased,

Starting point is 00:24:58 you can't expect them to keep paying you after that. Like you said before, they could end up paying more in Unity fees than they made on the game in the first place. There is genuinely a slice of people that can land in that slot. Obviously ridiculous. It should always be based

Starting point is 00:25:14 on some kind of sanity checked math where it has to be some proportion of the actual money someone made. Otherwise, how are we even having a conversation right now? But the more important thing is if they wanted to create a new fee structure, it had to be done on a going forward basis. I don't see how it can continue to be legal to unilaterally change a contract. How is it even possible that when I have a Netflix subscription, bringing it back to something that affects everyone,

Starting point is 00:25:42 you might be sitting there going, okay, I'm not a game developer. This doesn't affect me. But do you have a Netflix subscription? Okay, a lot of people dropped those recently. Okay, do you have a YouTube premium subscription? Do you have any kind of subscription where unilaterally the other side, the other party has changed the rate

Starting point is 00:25:58 and somehow your credit card is still being charged? How is that even possible? How does anyone think that's okay yeah and the funny thing about it is i'm not i'm not 100 sure why especially when it comes to web subscriptions i mean we still honor our original pricing for floatplane and my understanding for that three dollar tier is that we don't lose money on it no so why is it then i like we like meme about it but we don't with youtube i kind of get it because i do know that there's storage costs even if we ignore the bandwidth costs which which are scaling still right they are they're still going down the storage costs are not which is one of the

Starting point is 00:26:46 things that i outlined in the in the youtube should charge for for 4k video that we did a while back because hard drives used to get exponentially cheaper and now they don't in fact they are they are leveling out they're asymptoting at this point right one thing i will argue is that storage has gotten easier so while while the cost of the drives and honestly when you're at google scale i'm sure this part doesn't really affect you much because you're working on future engineering or whatever like i'm sure you use all those same people for different things but um the same amount of person effort that would need to go into maintaining a data store at a certain size, globally accessible by everyone around the world, all this other type of stuff,

Starting point is 00:27:32 the amount of effort that would go into doing that has gotten easier. So people hours going into it required is less, so costs are down more. But the problem is also getting increasingly more complex. Are you sure it's fewer development hours? Okay. So that's the caveat that I put on is I'm sure they would use those people to do other things. Yeah. Work on innovation or whatever else.

Starting point is 00:27:58 Yeah. Because like I would say that it's not directly related to storage, but if I had to guess, I'd say the development hours that have gone into something like the custom encoding hardware that they use now. Yeah, but that's technically other things. Okay, but it's all in service of more efficient codecs so we can bring down our storage costs. I do agree, yeah.

Starting point is 00:28:23 Okay. But maintaining the dataore is easier now They have probably shifted those costs To departments that are able to make that datastore more efficient or more usable or whatever else But then they're probably losing some cost on ever rising energy costs, which are just hammering the data center right now It's a decent point as well. yeah i so my point is i actually do kind of understand why youtube's getting more expensive i'm not 100 sure for something like a spotify um i'm not really sure for something like a netflix i find spotify to be very expensive

Starting point is 00:28:56 i'm surprised at how expensive it is i don't i don't pay for it like me neither but like when i look at the youtube premium is kind of a banging deal yeah considering that youtube music is included you just get the family plan you find four family members sorry i had something stuck in my eye there and then you're all paying like what what is it what does it work out to like four dollars and fifty cents a month or five divided out yeah 550 a month or something stupid like that for youtube premium and uh youtube music okay so maybe spotify kind of works the same way because their family plan is six people a month or something stupid like that for YouTube premium and YouTube music. Okay.

Starting point is 00:29:29 So maybe Spotify kind of works the same way because their family plan is six people. Okay. All right. Well, it's not too bad. Which is pretty big. So if you use it that way, it's 17 Canadian a month. If you have a family with six people in it. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:40 Then it's very affordable. Yeah. I mean, you know, family. Family. Okay. Yeah. I mean, you know, family. Family. Okay, interesting. The family plan with six accounts is 17 Canadian, but the duo, so two people, is 15 Canadian. So you should get a bigger family.

Starting point is 00:29:57 Yeah. Speaking of sharing things with your family, this is breaking. This is not our second topic. This is not in the doc at all, but this is now our second topic. We're going to talk about this right now. Plex just sent out a notice to users who are running their Plex server on a VPS or dedicated server at Hetzner. They will be blocking access to these servers effective october 12th you will have less

Starting point is 00:30:27 than a month to not have your plex server hosted at hetzner and this is apparently um according to lowendbox.com part of a crackdown on piracy well let's talk about that plex has been trying to remake its image over the last few years as a legitimate um streaming service i guess or you know whatever you want to call it but you can you can watch freely available and i believe you can even rent it's not hexner it's hetzner and it's a server host did i hate did Hexner? No, some people were saying that in chat, so I was helping them find it. Oh, okay. H-E-T-Z-N-E-R, Hetzner. In fact, I believe they've done sponsor spots on the show before.

Starting point is 00:31:15 Yeah, I think so. Yeah, because you can definitely do VPS and dedicated server hosting at Hetzner, and my understanding is it's a pretty good product overall. But anyone who's running a Plex server there is having a pretty bad time right now trying to figure out where the heck they're going to move all their data and their well their Plex server if you're not familiar with Plex basically I mean do I give the sanitized version or just do I just explain what Plex is I think you just explained what it is Plex is a great tool for filthy pirates who collect ISOs and, and MP4s and whatever kind of media file.

Starting point is 00:31:51 One of the most powerful things about it is you can dump pretty much any kind of media file into a library. And as long as you somewhat follow their conventions for naming your files, and you can use tools like file bot, for example, to ensure or to quickly rename your files and make sure that tools like file bot for example to ensure or to quickly rename your files and make sure that they adhere to plexus formatting it should pretty much figure out what it is and then dump it into a into a graphical library that is easily navigatable

Starting point is 00:32:18 and has all the metadata including cover art and actors and it'll even pull up things like extras and behind the scenes, so you can play that back. It'll pull reviews from, I believe, IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes. Don't quote me on exactly where it'll pull reviews from. And it'll pull actors, so you could browse and, oh, I want to watch other things with this actor in it, for example. And there are lots of legitimate uses for Plex. You can rip your own files and dump those onto your server, and Plex will serve you up those. But what I suspect is that most people who are running a VPS at Hedstner

Starting point is 00:32:53 are probably not uploading their Blu-rays to that VPS and are probably using it also as a torrent box and pulling down ISOs from places where ISOs might be found. Yeah, lots of Linux ISOs. And my take on this is that Plex is trying to shed that image. And we've seen that over, I mean, honestly. But why, if they're trying to do that, why just ban out Hetzner? Well, it's not that.

Starting point is 00:33:21 Why is it specific? um well it's not that why is it specific um my guess would be that hetzner is probably the flavor of the month kind of preferred everyone uses it i don't know that it does get recommended because as far as my understanding goes for large data storage they're highly cost effective this is not an ad spot that's just my understanding yeah so so there you go and then someone like a back blaze for example, yeah, sure, they're very cost-effective for data storage, but I don't think they even do VPS or dedicated server hosting or anything like that.

Starting point is 00:33:51 For who, sorry? Backblaze. Oh, yeah. I think it's just storage. My thing is there's just like, there are a lot of other alternatives that are very similar. Yeah, people are saying Hetzner has a lot of plex users that resell access to their plex servers ah interesting so why would that be unique to

Starting point is 00:34:14 hetzner so that's the thing that keeps getting confusing for me well if well that's why i brought up backblaze right because you can find places that have affordable storage, and you can find services that have affordable compute, whether it's VPS or whether it's a dedicated box. But finding somewhere that has both, well, kind of like you said, maybe Hetzner is just the one right now. And, okay, we do need to talk about that whole sharing of Plex libraries. So Plex has a feature that allows you to share your library with family and friends.

Starting point is 00:34:51 So there are... I've been offered access to people's Linux ISOs a few times. You mean their Plex server? Yeah. And that stores Linux ISOs? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, well, you're on mine.

Starting point is 00:35:01 Yeah. Yeah. So my sister is also on mine. So I actually, there are people with their own individual Plex accounts, and I don't think they even need to be paid Plex accounts. Because the thing about Plex is that as long as you're not using their proxy service, all the bandwidth is going directly from the host to the client. So there's no actual cost for them. So if my sister was to watch a movie, for example, as long as my upload is up to snuff and her download is up to snuff, then it's good to go.

Starting point is 00:35:38 But if I had many, many, many friends who paid me, for example, then running something like that off of my residential internet connection wouldn't be practical anymore and would probably hurt my business model so if plex is trying to de-piracy imagify themselves then cracking down on these commercial users of the product is probably going to go a long way to getting them into in better graces at least with the content providers who they're trying to work with on this on the other side of their business where they're trying to become a legitimate streaming service that doesn't cater to piracy and we've seen this move from them telegraphed for for years at this point i mean

Starting point is 00:36:23 at least yeah i've talked about it a fair bit for at least five years plex has clearly prioritized the legit side of their business over the um the home media collector side of their business like when's the last time the like download to device feature worked properly where it transcodes a version that's mobile device friendly and then dumps it onto your device? And they've given me excuses for this. I don't know if you guys know this, but we have paused any sponsorship relationship with Plex.

Starting point is 00:36:54 I still use the product. I still love a lot of things about the product. But we've paused our sponsorship relationship with them until they meet a bunch of... Sorry, what's that? What got us onto this topic? Oh, just someone talked about it in chat. they they meet a bunch of sorry what's that? what got us onto this topic? I don't know oh just someone talked about it in chat

Starting point is 00:37:08 oh and I just thought I thought it was really interesting what do you want? no I was just trying to figure it out yeah it's fine it's a WAN show does it what guides the WAN show? who knows? Linus' ADD times Dan's ADD divided by Luke's laugh. I don't know. That's the formula. I'm amazed it happens any week.

Starting point is 00:37:31 Xavier in floatplane chat said that you do not have to have premium accounts for the people added onto yours. Yeah. He said his whole family has access to his Linux. So that's exactly the thing. So people are monetizing their one premium account, which Plex is one of the companies that still does lifetime accounts. Like I said, there are things that I still think are pretty cool about Plex, but we've paused the relationship until they get mobile downloading working. Um, I think there's a couple of other things that

Starting point is 00:38:01 were kind of on my list of of hey you guys need to actually take care of the people who you know bought your software for all these years including lifetime access to plex pass and stuff like that based on these features that are supposed to work before you prioritize the development of these new areas of the business like this is actually not this is actually not cool how long this stuff has been broken i haven't been able to download using that downloader feature for probably over two years at this point. That's not okay. That's the kind of feature that is critical, right?

Starting point is 00:38:33 I want to be able to load some media onto my phone before I get on the plane. If that's broken, there should be like an emergency meeting and people should immediately be reassigned to it. That's not like, maybe we'll fix it in two years kind of feature from my point of view. But I think this is just yet another move that Plex is making to legitimize the service. And I can see why a lot of people are talking about jellyfin and MB in the in the floatplane chat because Those are projects that due to their structure are unlikely to ever change in this way Although ever is a really really really big word and at some point I feel like every company that starts out catering to pirates

Starting point is 00:39:20 Figures out that paying users will give them a lot more money figures out that paying users will give them a lot more money. Bit of an issue. Ah, yeah, I don't know. There's people asking me, like, can I change this? Can I talk to Plex about it? No, man, I can't. I've already... He did what he can do.

Starting point is 00:39:45 I've already thrown as much weight behind this as I can. I've gone, look, we're not going to work with you guys until you get back to basics a little bit here. And they basically were like... I don't even know if we got a response. Maybe we got a response that was like, you know what, I think... Hold on, no, I think they did respond.

Starting point is 00:40:04 It was basically like, you got to understand there's a lot of challenges and i was like okay i i get it challenges are challenging and then you know once you've overcome those challenges then we'll be happy to kind of we'll be happy to work with you guys again because i i gotta i gotta reiterate this i use the product i like the product there's a big difference between brands whose products I will use. I use private Internet access, but we don't do sponsor spots with them anymore just because of a lot of the scummy marketing that has gone on in the VPN industry that I think has soured people on hearing about them at all. We also don't work with them because of a couple of experiences we've had working with vpns that have then changed hands at which point we kind of go okay so we just sold a service and then the

Starting point is 00:40:53 potential changes to that service could and the data that that service could potentially make it no longer trustworthy for our users we just we we we went around that merry-go-round one too many times yeah but that doesn't change the fact that I like the product. I use the product. Same with, man, people keep bringing up Anchor. Every time an Anchor product makes its way into a video, people go, oh, you said it. I said we wouldn't work with them in a sponsorship capacity anymore. I never said it wasn't a good product and that I wouldn't keep using it.

Starting point is 00:41:22 I mean, I wouldn't use a Eufy security camera until i'd you know i see an independent security research because i was i was at a a person that i know's house recently with a baby uh and i noticed that they had a ufie baby monitor and i was like oh no and then figured out that it was i didn't to be fair i didn't look this up, but I was insisted on by them that it was a local only one. Like they didn't, they themselves didn't even have a portal to view it remotely. They didn't connect it to a network, et cetera. So I was like, whew, we're cool. Handyman in floatplane chat brings up a really good point. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But the thing that you're missing is that plex is a company

Starting point is 00:42:05 with liability um i think that it would be difficult to nail plex on this but if i was plex do i want to play with that fire probably not if this is something that has gotten high profile enough that it's gotten someone's attention and honestly this like one month deadline acting on this now kind of smells like that it smells like they got a call from someone that went we're turning off everything if you guys don't address this immediately and i know you can address this maybe someone with enough technical understanding that they were able to come at them and go the the the IP blocks that are available per major data center provider are readily available you guys could block these you could do it immediately the fact that you haven't done it means you're complicit. Deal with this now.

Starting point is 00:43:08 I could totally see that being a realistic scenario here. Yeah, definitely. Back to Unity, though. Oh, are we going back to that? Sure. Well, I don't think we actually technically finished the topic. Oh, no, people are talking about WAN VPN now again. It's called Float VPN. We're bringing it back. No, no, it's going to be WAN VPN now.

Starting point is 00:43:25 And we'll have float VPN. We'll be like VPN companies. Competing products. Yeah, where we'll just have multiple VPN products. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so what's left here?

Starting point is 00:43:39 I think we went through most of it, but there is a discussion question from Riley who says, what game companies are doing things right right now is there any way gamers can incentivize companies to promote the right no we were doing topic two the unity topics done oh unless there's something in particular we didn't actually get to topic two no no we did he put up topic two and then i started talking about hetzner dan and i were insane yeah but hetzner wasn't a- Dan? You just invented a topic! Dan, were we insane? That's illegal! I just- I just follow the time on my sheet.

Starting point is 00:44:10 Yeah. And then you can do what you want with the cards. He's a robot. He's not a robot, he's bread. I work- You can't breed a robot. He has to be organic if he's bread. He's a bread pusheen, though. What is that? It's a bread pusheen. It's a pusheen, but it's bread. He's a bread-pushine now. What is that? It's a bread-pushine. It's a pushine, but it's bread. Candy bread! Look at the top of it. Show the top of it. What the f***? It's a loaf. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I've seen enough of that. Yep. What's going on? We're done topic two now. You actually have to do the third one. Wait, wait. That was a topic! wait yes wait for scroll up in floatplane chat and find ldt labs jake and read that message he only tagged me in it but read that message what i founded and ran

Starting point is 00:44:55 the pirate party of canada's vpn system when i was leader of the party what okay in we actually had a pirate party what? That was you Well no he didn't found the pirate party. He just founded their VPN system. No he said it when I was the leader of the party Oh when it was the leader of the when I was the leader of the party One second here One second here. Oh my god. I think we talked about you on WAN Show back when the set... What the heck? That was you!

Starting point is 00:45:42 We talked about you on WAN Show years ago! Oh no! heck that was you oh no i'm not even kidding i'm pretty sure it was the red and blue set on the other side of the building and we talked about we talked about the canadian pirate party no i helped found the party i was the youngest leader of a federally registered party in canadian history how has this never come up? I mean... If I was applying for jobs, I probably wouldn't bring it up either. Okay, but he's worked here for a while now. We, like, talk about stuff sometimes.

Starting point is 00:46:14 How has this never come up? I don't know. Oh, my God. Wow. I gotta be honest with you. That's amazing. It wouldn't have affected your prospects. No, yeah. I probably would have with you. That's amazing. It wouldn't have affected your prospects. No, yeah.

Starting point is 00:46:26 I probably would have thought it was hilarious. Yeah. But I do feel a little blindsided finding out about it after the fact. Yeah, it's not general advice, but yeah, yeah, okay, anywho. Long time ago, that's fair. Yeah, it was 14 years ago. Wow. That's hilarious.

Starting point is 00:46:43 So yeah, the Pirate Party of Canada was a thing. I told everyone in my family that the Pirate Party existed. Yeah, I mean, I talked about it. I never considered voting for it. Oh, no. Sorry, but. Yeah, sorry. You didn't have a real platform.

Starting point is 00:46:55 No offense. Oh, man. Oh, man. Wow. Okay. So we're bringing it back now, then, I guess, obviously. Yeah. Why not? I mean, we've already got the leadership. Wow. Okay. So we're bringing it back now then, I guess, obviously. Yeah. Why not?

Starting point is 00:47:08 I mean, we've already got the leadership. Yeah. Now all we need is supporters. I mean, we could drum some up. The Pirate Party ship can float on the float VPN. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I could probably do some fiery speeches. Oh, I'm sure.

Starting point is 00:47:21 Yeah. I mean, yeah. We got it. We got writers. We got writers for the speeches got it got writers we got writers for the speeches we got yeah yeah but new Canadian law everyone must receive one Canadian sponsored red and white LTT screwdriver what I don't know we have a dumb policy would have to steal them all the fun

Starting point is 00:47:48 You wouldn't download a screwdriver yes you would oh My goodness the VPN money goes into a super pack yeah, oh no wow We have super packs up here, but it doesn't matter the point is yeah. Yeah, that that's an american thing that's probably good um the point is it's time to explain and do a couple of merch messages here we don't do super chats we don't do twitch bits we do merch messages because the way we see it if you're gonna huck money at your screen you should darn well get something for it like a water bottle or a or a or a screwdriver something cool oh the ratchet the ratchet's locked dang it okay bottle or a screwdriver. Something cool. Oh, the ratchet. The ratchet's locked.

Starting point is 00:48:27 Dang it. Okay. There. Or a screwdriver. So all you got to do is go to lttstore.com and in the checkout, you are going to see in the cart. Dang it. I've been doing really well lately.

Starting point is 00:48:39 In the cart, you will see a box whenever we're live to leave a merch message. It'll go to producer Dan oh sorry there you go and gone no sorry sorry we'll try that one more time okay wave okay we'll get the timing right yeah okay I took too long that time it doesn't matter the point is it'll go to producer Dan who will check your message down here send you a little

Starting point is 00:48:59 reply or get your reply some other way or curate your message for me and Luke and often Dan, to talk about on the show later on. Why don't we do a couple, show you guys how it works. Dan, do you have a couple merch messages for us? I do, I've got a bunch here.

Starting point is 00:49:13 Hey LLND, love the pins, can't wait for more. Question for Linus. You did a video on autonomous lawnmowers a while back. Any updates on living with it, or was it a gimmicky waste of time i wouldn't describe it as a waste of time since the whole point is that it doesn't take as much time but i would describe it as not a great use of money at the moment i think that in that sponsored video i feel like we did a pretty good job of showing the results, which I think allowed people to make decisions.

Starting point is 00:49:49 We read through the comments on that video. I'm always kind of looking to make sure that our sponsored content hits all the beats that the sponsor asks for, while also not misrepresenting the product to our viewers. So we hit all the beats, and I read through the comments, and people had a pretty good understanding of how well things went, because we did a very real-world demonstration. And honestly, the sponsor was happy with that. They were actually really great to work with. We would work with them again.

Starting point is 00:50:18 We showed a real-world result, where we real-world set it up, and real-world freaking ran ran it and it did as well as it did and for certain lawn configurations i could see it being a time saver and maybe even worth the money for mine not even close uh it just it just didn't make sense the the the lawn that we showed you guys in the video was actually at my old place um and it's just too irregularly shaped it was it was a little odd do you think it would do better at your new one i kind of feel like it would maybe definitely a maybe definitely maybe yeah yeah uh but one of the challenges is that it's only

Starting point is 00:50:58 really ideal if you have one contiguous lawn space i have like a super small front lawn and then like an extra super small like i don't know like 15 square feet or whatever like little tiny sliver that if i if i don't mow then like the neighbors will be like you um and in order to do that i would have to pick up the thing and put it there at which point point I have to kind of ask myself, well, why am I bothering? I might as well just start up the lawnmower. Right. So I don't know that I would do it at my current place either. I think that in another five to 10 years, we could reach a level of advancement in the mapping.

Starting point is 00:51:39 And because you're not going to be able to go on just one alone. So I don't think you're going to get by on just vision. I don't think you're going to get by on just vision. I don't think you're going to get by on just mapping. I think you need a perfect harmony of mapping and vision. And I think in another five to 10 years, we could get to the point where you'd have a product that's just press a button and it goes, you don't even think about it. But right now I just don't, I just, I just don't see it as making sense.

Starting point is 00:52:04 Someone's asking if i want to test the husk varner robo mower yeah i'm i saw enough i saw enough so far i i just don't think it's it's there yet for me if i had a super simple lawn i could totally like the like the langley house that that little like postcard size thing in the back yeah if i just never had to think about that again in my life i could see that being kind of practical then i get though there were stairs never mind i forgot about the stairs nope i think there were stairs and then another small patch and then you still had the lawn in the front yeah so it's like i don't know vancouver man it's like rainy and and rocky and i'm sure there's places where it would be yeah better we're like everything

Starting point is 00:52:43 is flat and it's like a a totally you know all at once developed suburb where everyone just has like a square lawn or whatever else there's definitely places where it would work it's not it's not here and it's not for me um okay dan hit me hey dll i entered a competition in a mall today. At the end of it, it redirected me to a full detailed table of every entry. Who would you report this to? Can't find the Deb, told the mall staff. It's definitely not legal. But I have, that's it. I don't think we've ever talked about this on the show before.

Starting point is 00:53:26 Something that is illegal, but how difficult it is to report something like this. Who does it go to? Who would care? If you were to, if you were to what, like call your local. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Yeah. Maybe we have to go back into the wording because is it illegal? Like was, was, was this person sent this stuff or did they find a way to gain access to it?

Starting point is 00:53:47 At the end, it redirected them to a full detailed table of every entry. Whoa. Yeah. Super bad. It's probably not intentional, but that doesn't change the fact that you actually cannot do that. Yeah. Sheesh. But I don't know.

Starting point is 00:54:02 I know. I suspect if that was in Canada, I could figure it out. It is in Canada. Someone found it for the UK. I suspect if it's in Canada, I would look up the CanSpam organization, whatever. And I bet you if they were the wrong group of people, that they could get you to the right group of people relatively quickly. Because I suspect it would be a related group. Yeah, if you can't find the dev i mean i don't know i

Starting point is 00:54:28 don't have too much detail so i don't know if this was a pop-up kiosk where they filled out a survey and then it's gone yeah or if it's like part of the part of the you know the navigation touch screens that they have in some malls now and you know after you navigated maybe it's a little survey or something like that maybe it's a permanent fixture if it's a permanent fixture i think that there's a solid chance that you can pin down the mall for being responsible for it but if it wasn't the mall itself who's running the thing i mean good luck i i appreciate you trying to do your civic duty and and get it sorted out somehow because obviously this shouldn't stand as it is but i'm gonna be honest with you i i would probably i would i would

Starting point is 00:55:13 try to contact the dev before i did anything else personally i would probably reach out to the mall first i would so yeah who were those guys yeah if you can't find the dev i would reach out to the mall and i i personally did that they told them all staff so i personally would not just tell them i would more or less demand to know who it was because i would not trust whoever i told to actually follow through yeah that's fair um and then i would make sure that i could get in contact with the dev and then give them the opportunity to fix it um i mean it's very likely they don't even know yeah that wouldn't surprise me at all so make sure that they at least know and have the opportunity to fix it first

Starting point is 00:55:50 but yeah that sucks next one oh yeah wanna pick one wasn't that only one merch message oh that was a merch message is that Jessica? Oh, hello. Are you still here?

Starting point is 00:56:09 No, I have comedy business in Surrey. You have comedy business in Surrey. I don't have another place to be. Comedy business. I mean, is that a... What's the word for the contradictory thing? You would know that. Oxymoron.

Starting point is 00:56:23 Oxymoron. No, I think there's a different one. It might be an oxymoron. I know that not oxymoron oxymoron. No, there's a I think there's a different one Might be an oxymoron. I think it's oxymoron oxymoron versus Contradiction antithesis of paradox juxtaposition oxymoron. That's the one hey. Thanks. You must be a writer. Okay. Well why don't we do your bit then? Okay Yeah, why don't you take Dan's spot Dan doesn't need it I would love if we did my bit. Okay. Can I be audible? Yeah, why don't you take Dan's spot?

Starting point is 00:56:47 Dan doesn't need it. Get out of the way, Dan. Wow. I mean, you don't have to be mean about it. Move, Dan. Get out of the way. It is I, Shadow Dan. Okay.

Starting point is 00:56:59 What is this again? All right. I have no idea. So I have created a very fun game for you both. I hope it will be fun. I put you on camera better. I got some perfectly normal products off of wish comms tech section Okay, and seeing as you are a renowned techspert Which of us are you talking to you surely him both of you?

Starting point is 00:57:18 More so than me So you and Luke will obviously be able to guess the purpose of these products. Oh Wait, have you been on WAN Show on video yet? I have not. Okay. Well, briefly during the, uh, the expo. Okay, cool. So, um, this is Jessica.

Starting point is 00:57:34 Hi. Okay. She's writing for the WAN Show. She produces the doc. Yeah. Along with Riley, I believe. Yeah. Okay, uh, and so, sorry, wait, what are we doing?

Starting point is 00:57:44 I'm, I'm giving you, you're having a game. There's no notes about it. Oh. Oh, I can't, I believe. Yeah. Okay. And so, sorry, wait, what are we doing? I'm giving you, you're having a game. There's no notes about it. Oh. I keep, I keep, she's searching. I looked through it for notes as well. She's watching me look for the notes. Okay. All right.

Starting point is 00:57:54 Fine. The notes are a reflection of my vision. Stop looking in there. So the rules are as such, you are trying to guess the advertised purpose of these products. Oh, no. Not what they look like, therefore, what someone tried to convince me to do with them. And you may ask me yes or no questions, and I will only confirm if you are correct or incorrect. And you may ask me how to turn them on.

Starting point is 00:58:21 Because some of them are confusing. Okay, all right. And are we competing or... You can if you want, but... Sure. Team effort. Team effort. I think the vibe I'm getting

Starting point is 00:58:32 is we're not going to get any of these. Oh, okay. You probably will get some of them. Okay, okay. So this is number one. I see. So it's a clip-on light? Oh, okay.

Starting point is 00:58:44 Well, okay. I know what this is it's a it's a telephoto lens that you clip onto the back of your phone so that you can you can magnify so you can magnify your camera but you told me that these are going to be non-obvious so we're starting easy what what is it like a gynecology tool or you got it in one it is in fact intended to clip onto the back of a phone uh it doesn't work oh well can i can i uh can wait so we got it right though oh okay so do we get a point for that you get a point okay go team can i can i try to use it i mean is that is that a thing that's part of this game? Sure, go for it. I got my Note 9 here.

Starting point is 00:59:27 Trusty Note 9. Let's just use my eyeball. Does this even allow light through it? There's a cap on it. No, there isn't. It does allow light, but not much. Okay, one moment, please. Oh, goodness. isn't it does allow light but not much uh okay one moment please um oh goodness uh i don't think anything could be more trash if it tried i mean it technically functions but that's

Starting point is 01:00:03 that's the worst that's the worst. That's the worst. Okay, so here, hold on a second. Let's go to the loot cam. Yeah. And then let's look at... Look at my pores. Let's look at... Oh, my.

Starting point is 01:00:16 Okay, yeah. So that's how blurry it is. I might as well have just taken a photo and then enhanced. Yeah, it would be probably less blurry. And before you ask, yes. Yes, it's aligned. And actually, it took them a bit to align it. They suggest taking pictures of the moon.

Starting point is 01:00:36 I mean... If you want to see a gray circle... Hold on, hold on. There's a focus wheel. There's a focus wheel. Oh, that's pretty good i mean well good is a really from here my eyes are bad good is a really strong word luke but how much was this i like less than five dollars okay hold on hold on i've got a comparison shot for you guys okay so here's okay hold on hold on okay so i've got dan you got normal zoom and then do

Starting point is 01:01:08 like omega zoom just through the phone i i don't have that okay uh okay so oh no this is not good okay we're going back to the loot camp this is not this is not good uh okay so here So here, here is Dan with the attachment. Okay. And I've realized this is not the best way for us to evaluate something like this. You guys looking through a camera at a tiny little, well, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Okay. So here is Dan with my note nine, which is not a particularly modern phone.

Starting point is 01:01:44 Okay. Just, you know enhanced so here's my here's my stop can you just bubble go away stop okay rotate thank you okay so here's dan just digitally enhanced enhance enhance yeah yeah it's way better yeah Yeah, that is, wow, that is just obviously, clearly, immediately, obviously better. This is literal manufactured garbage, and whoever made it should be ashamed of themselves. Okay. Item two? Yeah. All right, hit me.

Starting point is 01:02:21 What is this? Dan is big foot. So, okay, it's going's gonna turn on and those are gonna spin so like helicopter style okay i mean sure um okay i okay you know what you know what this doesn't have to be a competition but i do have a theory don't hide it behind me okay um oh oh yeah sorry okay so this is this is what it does i'm just gonna here we'll put it on the top of our laptops that'll work perfectly and nothing could go wrong yeah it looks like you're wearing one of those little hats i'm a wizard okay i have mine written down okay uh do you want to go first sure i said desktop hand cooler

Starting point is 01:03:06 i said air purifier oh wrong and wrong i mean i i don't know what this if it's just supposed to enhance air circulation or something like that then i could you could sort of make an argument but how does it feel it doesn't no it doesn't they're not angled so it's not a fan it just it just moves it around which is why i thought maybe it was like a like a like a faco pseudoscience medicine purifier or something but okay fine fine what i do have one of those um okay hold on hold on hold on hold on hold on give me a little bit longer here literally no markings on it whatsoever did you remove labels and markings uh i removed a marking from one things packaging but otherwise no it came exactly like that spinny obelisk i honestly

Starting point is 01:03:51 i thought i had it i got people saying maybe it takes out insects i i don't really i doubt it no no no hold on laundry rack okay stop why am i even looking at twitch chat uh let's look at the 5g blocker okay we've clearly jumped the shark at this point hey someone full plane chat said motion sensor trigger you might need that motion sensor trigger does it his house with his junky lights does it uh oh thanks for that my lights often turn off um on that, okay, maybe it's something for work from home? Maybe it just moves in your webcam and makes your employer think you're sitting at your desk?

Starting point is 01:04:33 Okay, you know what? I don't know. Okay, Jessica, but it's battery-powered. It would run out of batteries. It doesn't even have a wall plug. Sadly, I must give a point to Twitch chat. It is, in fact, intended to keep bugs off of food. Whoa.

Starting point is 01:04:58 Oh. twitch chat it is in fact intended to keep bugs off of food whoa oh okay uh go twitch chat apparently for picnics okay all right you know what put a thing over it well i mean why do that when you could buy half a dozen of these and have them all over your table to whack your hands? Someone said they work well, but why don't you just put something over it? Okay, all right. Okay, what's next? Actually, multiple people are saying they work well. It's the only one of these products I would actually use. Oh, okay.

Starting point is 01:05:21 All right, hit me. Um... use oh okay all right hit me um okay uh let's hold this up for you guys it's clearly an led yeah led on like a at the end of a thing at the end of a flexible clip or something thing uh pinch clip like what's the box? Is it just batteries? Nothing else? This appears to be a motion sensor. Okay. Correct. But I...

Starting point is 01:05:55 See, a light went on when I did that. I thought. Did a light go on? It'll also turn on if you set it down. If I set it down? How do I set it down? It doesn it down how do i set it down it doesn't have an obvious it doesn't have wait wait wait no no way no way you put it on the top of your you put it on the top of your bed and then it's a it's a reading light no wait because the

Starting point is 01:06:17 motion sensor would be facing up okay now hold on just a gosh darn second here uh hold on set it how do i set it down i don't here okay here's why i'm so confused because this side it see this side is curve alerved so this is clearly not the bottom this side is flat right we got a flat side but this is not don't worry about it but this side but it has this like thing sticking out of it So unless it hangs off of the edge of something. It hangs off the edge of something. But it doesn't. Here, one sec. Can we, she said put it down.

Starting point is 01:06:53 Is it on? How do I put it down? I mean, well, you can't. I know chat can't see it there. People can't even see it there. But I wanted to see if it was even going to work. Okay. You said we could ask you how to

Starting point is 01:07:05 turn it on right yep how do we turn it on set it down on its bulbous fucking sorry bulbous face on its face on its face what that can't possibly turn on wait but it is it when it rocks back and forth it is a light sensor why would you that's why she said if you put it down it turns it on because you're covering the light sensor so that's why she said if you put it down, it turns it on, because you're covering the light sensor. So that's not actually how you place it when you're practically using it, I think. So where on earth would you put this? So when it's dark, it turns on. Why?

Starting point is 01:07:36 Is it for the reading thing that I said, or is it something... It is not for reading. Oh, it's not for... There we go. Okay, so it was off. You have to press the button there. Now if I do this, the light turns on. And it's not for you. There we go. It's just a little- Okay, so it was off. You have to press the button there. Now if I do this, the light turns on. And it's very- It's a blue light.

Starting point is 01:07:48 Not bright. Yeah, it's not bright at all. And it's blue or teal or something. So, danger! Danger! Your light is off! I can tell the f***ing light's off because it's dark! Okay, now hold on just a gosh darn second. Wait, blue toilet light?

Starting point is 01:08:04 Whoa! No. No. blue toilet light? No. No, that can't be right. Shut up, chat. Motion sensor toilet. Toilet bowl light. It went green for a second. Toilet bowl light? It is, in fact, a motion sensor toilet night light. So for bathroom, I think, though.

Starting point is 01:08:18 Not the toilet itself. It hangs off of your toilet, and it makes your toilet glow. Wouldn't it get, like, pee on it? Really gross? Wouldn't it- there's no- there's nothing to keep it there. It hasn't been used, if that helps. It's gonna fall in. Like, it's green now! Yeah, it goes under the seat onto the toilet bowl.

Starting point is 01:08:37 That is... Terrible. Under the seat. But then your seat's gonna be rocking onto one side. You hang it. Like, you bend the thingy and the light point points in And the battery part is on the outside. It goes like this I Hate it. I hate everything about it. So this is on the No, why would I want and you can inspect your legendary? Why would I want the nighttime light in my bathroom to glow out of my toilet bowl? That's going to be covered by my giant white butt.

Starting point is 01:09:09 You gotta send- Like, that's not useful. You gotta send pictures of your poetry-worthy poops to your partner. In various colors. Sometimes blue. I think it would be very aesthetic. Instagram would love it. You think it would be aesthetic?

Starting point is 01:09:26 You could write a Twitter bot. It often just doesn't work. I hate it. I think it not working is the least of our concerns. The fact that it exists at all is a much bigger problem for me. I wish with these things we could know how many of them have sold. That would get disgusting. Because, like, think about it. Look, the thing is that i had to have this conversation

Starting point is 01:09:45 with one of the younger male members of my family a little while ago and it kind of went look the point of lifting up the seat is not whether or not you can aim through it it's whether it's going to take any splash damage okay so it doesn't matter how perfect your aim is, you still need to move things out of the way. This is guaranteed to get absolutely disgusting. And you have to like manhandle it to get new battery. Three AAAs? I'm going to spend a fortune watching so I can see my poop better. This is ridiculous.

Starting point is 01:10:26 It's a defecation enhancer, that's that's the new name on wish defecation enhancer. All right. All right. Okay hit us again. All right. I Have no idea if this segment is good or bad. Oh, well, this is one of those games This is one of those games where shock you get yeah, you get zapped I don't so is it like a Russian roulette shocking game got into one no, okay? I mean do you want to play? I don't know why it has suction cups so that it doesn't move when people are like You know so you can suction it to the table. I mean should we find out how much you want I feel like it's not... Want is such a strong word Luke. It's the WAN show.

Starting point is 01:11:08 We can if you think it will enhance the viewer experience. I mean, I think there's no doubt that it'll enhance the viewer experience. Okay. So are they- both of these are flashing red? Are you joining us Dan? No. Oh. Oh jeez.

Starting point is 01:11:20 Had a little- Oh, cause it's covered. Okay, um... AHHHHHHHHH I mean why are we doing this? I don't know, I'm not excited. Oh, cause it's covered. Okay, um... AHHHH! I mean, why are we doing this? I don't know, I'm not excited. This is the world's most pointless game. Click on the switch. I already did. Okay, start.

Starting point is 01:11:35 Go press start. I did! He did, he did, he did. It's rouletting. I don't want it to be me! Does it know we're in this? I don't even know how much it- AHH! Ooh! Well, I didn't lose. Alright, we're done. Why did you flinch? I hurt- that hurt me!

Starting point is 01:11:49 I flinched. By the way, it actually didn't hurt that much. It more startled me. It's pretty crappy. They're always startling. Well, I mean, there's ones that hurt. Remember when we did it with the dog shock collars? Which, by the way way are inhumane having personally experienced it a lot I would say you should not use them that's very bad

Starting point is 01:12:11 if you zapped your dog with this though I honestly I'd be fine with it someone quoted me saying I didn't lose alright we're done that's how Russian roulette works if you lose that if there's two people playing and one of them lose you really don't have to continue. Yeah, you won. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:12:26 All right. Oh, man. Are you good or would you like one more? Okay, that's with one more. Let's do it. Jeez. You know, Jessica, when you started and I asked you to come up with WAN show segments, this isn't what I had in mind.

Starting point is 01:12:41 I love it, though. This is pretty good. This is pretty amazing. What is that? When we first met, you told me to make you scared of me did I say that it sounds like something I would say much verbatim okay a lot of people have wonderful okay then I basically did ask you to do this explicitly okay this is here do you want to touch it first it's hollow yeah it's it seems to be a metal here I'm gonna go to the loot cam do you want to touch it first? It's hollow. Yeah, it seems to be a metal...

Starting point is 01:13:08 Here, I'm going to go to the loot cam if you want to show the people what you're holding. It's sort of irregularly shaped. I think it's symmetrical, but it's kind of... It reminds me of what a cheap, crappy, mass-produced pet rock might be. Like a digital pet rock. rock you know like it's metal like it's not okay that's helpful i was just trying to figure out i'm sure that was great for

Starting point is 01:13:32 everyone's mic is there some form of structure inside of it something like this is a tech product it was listed under tech products yes uh here can i see it again i mean i i i'm not this is not a real guess but it wouldn't surprise me if someone marketed as like an esd you know esd stone you know just just hold this and it you know discharges your esd or something like that for working on tech like obviously that would be false that you can watch the recent collab we did with electro boom where we completely debunked any esd anything that doesn't attach to an outlet um yeah i people have like told me in chat what they think it is but i would have never guessed that so i'm not gonna say it um there's like no shot i would have guessed that uh someone guessed steel soap bar i i mean, you know. People said garlic soap.

Starting point is 01:14:26 Garlic soap? I mean, it's not garlic soap. It doesn't smell like garlic. It smells like stainless steel. It is, in fact, stainless steel soap. It doesn't work. But according to Wikipedia, it does not work. But it is intended to get rid of the smell of garlic.

Starting point is 01:14:50 What? I don't know. So we're just literally taking metal and just putting it in a shape and... I mean, that's brilliant. Making claims about its magical properties. and i mean that's brilliant making claims about its magical bunch of people magical properties i mean the thing is that like there are real metal properties that you know are kind of like that like silver is antimicrobial for copper some other ones as well um you know okay that's why that's why iuds for example are made of copper because it creates a very um hostile environment for for sperm for example um and

Starting point is 01:15:28 if you just take like like an old earring or an old necklace that you don't care about anymore and you drop it in your reservoir as long as it doesn't get like sucked into the pump that would be bad but you just drop that in your reservoir you don't need to put any additives in it the the the silver ions will destroy any microbes in your loop yeah um so this so there there are there are reality-based things um kind of like this but this one i have never heard of before and i frankly don't believe i can guarantee it will clean your hands exactly as well as rubbing it on silverware just just the knives in your your might actually be worse if you get tarnish you knowunk all over you.

Starting point is 01:16:07 And because actual silverware, if it's actually made out of silver, would actually have antimicrobial properties. Oh, that's true. So fake silverware. Maybe not as well. Yeah, there we go. Yeah. Okay. But it will be healthier than pewter.

Starting point is 01:16:19 So. Topgear1224 in floatplane chat asks, copper, yet you had growth in whole room water cooling. Okay, so the thing with copper is that it's not nearly as effective as silver as an antimicrobial ion or whatever. And number two is that wasn't microbes. That is a very common misconception about the downfall of whole room water cooling.

Starting point is 01:16:40 It was not stuff growing in the loop. That never happened. What happened was I bought a stainless steel reservoir tank from Princess Auto that was not stainless steel. So what you saw in all the blocks was rust. The reason that I said in the video it must be microbes was because there wasn't any iron in the loop that I knew of. So that's how that whole thing went down.

Starting point is 01:17:06 It was just rust in everything. That's why it also couldn't be cleaned. If it had been microbe crap, then we could have scrubbed it off, but it was rust and it settled into everything and it stained it all. It was awful. Okay, to address someone saying in chat,

Starting point is 01:17:21 we don't think everyone has actual silver silverware, but if you say silverware... Yeah, who has silver silverware? I don has actual silver silverware. But if you say silverware. Yeah, who has silver silverware? I don't have silver silverware. Of course not. Who would? Yeah. Maybe if you inherited it.

Starting point is 01:17:31 Does anybody even make silverware? If you say silverware, then you should. Yeah, I don't know. Can you still buy real silverware? I'm 100% certain you can. I guarantee you someone makes it. Silversuperstore.com. Okay, hold on, hold on.

Starting point is 01:17:44 The Sterling Silver Advantage.store.com. Okay, hold on, hold on. The Sterling Silver Advantage. Oh, okay. Okay, okay. So manufacturers like Reed and Barton, Gorham, Wallace Silversmiths, Lunt, Christoffel,

Starting point is 01:18:00 oh, here, here, here, I can show you guys. These are the actual manufacturers. Okay, was that the last one, Jessica? yes all right thank you so much thank you very much see you again that was fantastic your scripty thing oh uh some very surprised amount of people said that that one works okay yeah and people were saying that uh at at certain barbecues and stuff like that it is not very practical to actually put covers on your food So they use those things and apparently it's like actually a thing so alright. That's cool. I've never been in that scenario I've always been in places where you can just cover it

Starting point is 01:18:33 Woah! Five piece! What the f*** Silver is not worth that much money Silver is not worth that much money. Like, we talk about... Okay, okay. Are those like handcrafted? Are those like Smith or something?

Starting point is 01:18:49 Okay, we talk about silver and gold in the same sentences. Isn't that five place settings? But by comparison... No. No, that is a single place setting. What? Five pieces. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:19:00 I need that fly thing. One soup spoon. One soup spoon. 4.20. Nice. Nice. Nice. Nice. What the f***? Pieces yeah, I need that fly thing one soups good one soup spoon 420 nice nice nice What the fuck? So I I suspect there's I suspect these are solid silver yeah, but still I suspect these are like Smith I bet you there is silver plated mass manufactured that are probably cheaper

Starting point is 01:19:23 Silver's not that flippin expensive hold on hold on so caught Conrad said earlier this I just find this very funny Conrad said earlier I have silver cutlery and then you showed that and he says in hindsight I no longer believe I have silver it's probably played in notice is like count this is probably like I don't know brands, so I'm going to say Tiffany. You know how Tiffany jewelry costs $4,000 or whatever for a tiny little diamond solitaire? Even if we believe the bullshit value of diamonds that the diamond industry would have us believe is still only worth like you know 150 bucks yeah, so we may very well be looking at the the like Tiffany version of what silverware costs cuz here

Starting point is 01:20:16 Hold on a second. Hold on a second. So what's uh, what's uh, what's like a Man, I don't know. I I don't I don't really do I don't really do metals speculation. Someone in chat said $23 something cents for an ounce of silver right now. For an ounce. Okay. So how many ounces of silver in a fork? Is this something that Google search can help you with? Okay.

Starting point is 01:20:42 Jay Ritchie said it's $23.31 an ounce. Okay. that google search okay jay ritchie said it's 23 and 31 cents an ounce okay so a large serving fork can weigh anywhere from three quarters to one and a half ounces yeah but a large serving fork might that some of those are like big big yeah an average on average less than an ounce of silver per piece so no you may very well own silver flatware at like... Troy ounces. 30 to 50 bucks a pop. How much silver is in a silver fork?

Starting point is 01:21:11 Here we go. Real silver flatware is typical sterling silver or 92.5%. Okay, that doesn't tell me anything. How much does a... Okay, yeah. Yeah, yeah. 14 to 44 grams. So so one way or another we are we are a solid order of magnitude off on

Starting point is 01:21:31 that site for sure like 100% a Troy ounce is only slightly bigger than a regular ounce so it's like fine we can we can somewhat we can definitely say that these guys are out to lunch. Very expensive lunch. Sorry, what do you got Luke? Tiffany makes silverware. Of course they do. And how much is Tiffany? Should I go on your screen? Yeah, sure. This random fork I'm looking at is $470. Yeah. Yeah. See, there you go.

Starting point is 01:22:01 So this is just like stupid name brand pricing. So what if I go on eBay? I'm probably going to get something more realistic. It's a serving fork. It's 12 inches. It's a big fork. Oh, that's a big fork. It's a big fork.

Starting point is 01:22:15 Okay. Okay. What if we look at these? There you go. That's just a carving knife. Do they do fish cutlery? I don't know. Here we go.

Starting point is 01:22:23 Here we go. Hold on. We're on my screen now. There's a cheese knife for 200 bucks. That's just darn... It's affordable. Here's some silver flatware. 11.5 ounces for 10 bucks.

Starting point is 01:22:35 Used, tarnished. Hey, this is fun. Did you know that you can untarnish silver items? How do you do that? Like, not polish them. Polish bad. Because when you polish, you Like, not polish them. Polish bad. Because when you polish, you are actually removing the material.

Starting point is 01:22:49 Yeah, so you are eventually, if you polish a silver object enough times, you will polish it into oblivion. I know what I want for Christmas now. There's a silver ladle from Tiffany that's $1,000. That seems reasonable. You need to put that website away before it makes you too angry.

Starting point is 01:23:04 Yeah, I'm actually upset about that. You can't handle that sort of thing. Honestly, I can't either. That's why I'm on eBay instead. So what you do is you take aluminum, and you can just take any aluminum, aluminum foil, whatever, and you put it in boiling water. This is going to sound like alchemy. It already does.

Starting point is 01:23:21 It's going to sound like stainless steel soap, but for real. So you take a ball of aluminum, you chuck it in. I believe it's just boiling water, and then you put in baking soda. And what it does is it reverses the chemical reaction, the oxidation that causes tarnishing and restores it. I have actually—oh, is it vinegar? Okay, it might not be water. It might be vinegar. Wait, no, you wouldn't put baking soda in vinegar.

Starting point is 01:23:43 Okay, hold on a second. Now I have to check. not be water it might be vinegar and wait no you wouldn't put baking soda and vinegar okay hold on a second now i have to check okay how how do you restore uh silver uh aluminum i just had a physical reaction east of eaton said a one thousand dollar soup ladle is more justifiable than a one thousand dollar gpu line container with foil add silver items add baking soda boil water yeah yeah so i had it right i did this when i was in high school because i did a um like a metal smithing class in school and my silver stuff got tarnished and uh i was like so what i like polish it now and it was recommended that i not polish it because it had very fine details on it that eventually would disappear and then i found out about this

Starting point is 01:24:20 restoration method and it works amazing it looked like it looked like it was polished it looked brand new tool restoration is actually a really cool thing oh that's a whole youtube fun rabbit hole on youtube you do have to make sure uh my dad says use ketchup apparently he's a wanshow chat person now um but he said use ketchup sup rob i've heard of that before too but i have no idea but yeah tool restoration on youtube is a fun rabbit hole to go down. I will warn you, there's a solid amount of people that fake it for views. Oh. Totally a thing.

Starting point is 01:24:52 Never occurred to me. Yeah, they'll like... It makes sense though. Yeah, they'll like fake ruin something so that it's easy to restore. And then they do that. I got it. Instead of taking like actually worn down things. That's been like sitting for a hundred years or whatever yeah which is it's lame um so so got it pay attention but yeah what are we supposed to be doing right now dan

Starting point is 01:25:15 okay why don't we just why don't we do sponsors all right the show thanks to sweet water for sponsoring today's show when we need to upgrade our audio gear at LMG, we can count on the fine folks at Sweetwater to carry the latest and greatest. Whether it's mics, headphones, sound mixers, or preamps, they've got everything. Not sure what products you need? Use a comprehensive resources on their site to help guide you or speak to a Sweetwater sales engineer for personalized gear advice. And with their total confidence coverage warranty, most of their products are covered for two years with most repairs done on site by their award

Starting point is 01:25:48 winning factory certified service department. Sound clearer, crisper and cleaner with Sweetwater. Check them out at lmg.gg slash Sweetwater. Thanks to Vistaprint for sponsoring today's show. Vistaprint is the go-to company for all of your personalized printing needs. Whether you're looking to design business cards, sports team t-shirts, or eye catching tote bags, Vistaprint has everything you need to make a statement. Their online design tools make it easy to create custom designs and their selection of high quality materials and finishes ensures that your finished products will look professional and polished. Best of all, if you make an order and aren't happy with what you receive, send them an email and get a response back within 24 hours. All of their offerings are satisfaction guaranteed. So go to lmg.gg slash Vistaprint today and start creating your own

Starting point is 01:26:35 personalized products that are as fun and unique as you are. This show is also brought to you by our friends over at Moment. Are you a creative looking to make sure you have the best gear to capture your vision? Moment is here to help offering photo and video equipment for every occasion. Moment only works with the best brands, such as Sony, Fuji, and Leica. They even produce their own high-quality gear, too. All Moment-branded gear comes with a two-year manufacturer's warranty, meaning more shots and less stops.

Starting point is 01:26:59 Go to lmg.gg slash shop Moment and check out their carefully curated catalog of gear. By the way, shout out Ridge for sponsoring what I think is going to be LMG.GG slash shop moment and check out their carefully curated catalog of gear sweepstakes. By the way, shout out Ridge for sponsoring what I think is going to be one of the coolest videos we have ever done on the channel. Whoa. We shot it this week. I was talking before the show with Luke. I was saying I was very tired. It was an exhausting all day shoot and very stressful.

Starting point is 01:27:24 I have never before felt lightheaded to the point where I kind of went okay I need to get my head down because I think I might faint but let me put it this way on a single roll I had 10 grand riding

Starting point is 01:27:42 real non scripted this is real shit on a roll I had 10 grand riding. Real, non-scripted. This is real s*** on a roll? I came up with this idea, I thought, like six months ago. But it turns out it must have been over a year ago because I know that it was when I was at the dentist and I was walking over to meet my family for lunch. I walked by one of those mom and pop computer shops. You know the kind I'm talking about, right?

Starting point is 01:28:07 Yeah, yeah. Where everything they have in stock is older than my children. Yeah. Right? And I popped my head in and I went, you know what would be like the coolest video ever? Is if we go and we do an archaeological expedition into this shop and find out the stories behind all of these like

Starting point is 01:28:27 $60 parallel cables you know what i'm talking about right like stuff that clearly hasn't had the price updated since it was put on the shelf the box is caked in dust the packaging is past yellow to brown you know what i'm talking about right and i thought well okay yeah but you know we don't want to just go in and like, you know, trash on a small business. What's the way that we could make this a feel good story? What's the way that we could make this a win win for everybody involved? And I and I came up with the idea of. Buying it all.

Starting point is 01:29:00 Why don't we take all their crappy dead stock and give them a completely fresh start? We go in. This feels like a beast move. We go in. We buy every crappy DVI cable, every ancient compact flash card, every expired printer cartridge. We buy it all. But you know me, right? I like to get a deal.

Starting point is 01:29:27 So I rolled in with my Ridge wallet. That's why I brought this up. The Ridge sponsored this. So I rolled in with my Ridge wallet, sure. But I also rolled in with a bag of Games of Chance. Oh my God. So the entire video, I basically had him just quote me a price on everything. And then we played games to find out,

Starting point is 01:29:51 okay, roll the die. Is it going to be 10% more than what we negotiated? 10% less? Is it going to be the custom side that he created on the die is it going to be my custom side on the die that i created uh we threw we threw darts we played marbles we rolled dice how many shops did you do this with just one shop okay uh we played a game i invented oh but these are all modifiers called stop the rope so i put five lines on a piece of ethernet cable he's

Starting point is 01:30:24 blindfolded and he's got his hands like this and the cables running through and I basically said for every line I will pay 5% more than what you quoted, but if it makes it all the way through I get 20% off And he he just I mean he just had to kind of like go on instinct and try to stop it right So it's it's a really fun video. It's wow. I'm not going to spoil it, but there were some moments where, um,

Starting point is 01:30:53 I was real concerned about how things were going. Uh, serious says darts. Isn't a game of chance. Um, I think if you never, if you play with me, it is,

Starting point is 01:31:02 it basically is. Yeah. When, when you watch, you'll understand. The darts we were using were from the dollar store. Yeah. And that dollar included the board and four darts. Actually, it might have been like five bucks or something. But trust me, it was not.

Starting point is 01:31:18 Just because you play darts doesn't mean you could throw those. This is only vaguely on topic. But in Taiwan, I was walking around with UFD Tech and Jeff from our sales team and some of the UFD Tech people and whatnot. And we came across a dart store, a darts store, I guess I should say. And the bottom of it was just like a darts shop. of it was just like a darts shop and it random happens to be that one of the ufd tech guys um was actually into darts so they were like they like bought some or something which was like cool i was just stunned that there was a darts store at all yeah um and then they were like okay do you want to go throw them now and we were like what um and there was stairs that went upstairs so we went up into the upstairs area

Starting point is 01:32:06 and the entire upstairs was just a whole row of machines uh that were were dart throwing internet connected global like tournament machines so you can you can play locally or you can play online against other people that are playing at the machines there's a whole bunch of different modes and if this was around here the bottom of the store would maybe have one customer in it and upstairs would be empty no this is in taipei the bottom of the store had like six different people shopping all at the same time and the upstairs was full there was no extra lanes every single one of them was full and it was actually like just a really wild time and they were good yeah it was it was it was pretty wild but anyways uh atomic age ace

Starting point is 01:32:56 asks you better have float plane exclusive for this video i'll be surprised if there isn't more than one we shot all day yeah and it's gonna have to be edited down into like do you have like at most a 25 minute video right like it's that we're gonna leave so much on the cutting room floor and the guy was such a character um which you'd have to be he's been running it over 20 years i think wow yeah like they've been they've been around man they've been around think about it think about what the PC industry was like 20 years ago compared to today. How much has changed in that time? There's been feast.

Starting point is 01:33:30 There's been famine. Guy's been through everything. And it ended up being a really feel good video. I had a really great time working on it. That's cool. Yeah. Massive shout out to Ridge for sponsoring it. I feel like this is going to be, if we were to make,

Starting point is 01:33:48 I don't know if you can make a series out of something like that. Maybe not. Maybe one time is enough. Speaking of series, have we talked on WAN Show about a series that we're potentially going to bring back? Oh, I think it was very lightly mentioned, but very noncommittally. I don't know if you want to push that forward even more.

Starting point is 01:34:14 He's deciding. He's deciding live, which is maybe not the way how to do it. But I think me saying that makes him want to do it more. All right. Dramatic tension. Oops. Luke,

Starting point is 01:34:27 Luke, you're part of the problem. All right. We're going to do it. Um, scrapyard wars nine is officially being shopped for sponsorship right now. Once we've got that locked in, um,

Starting point is 01:34:39 we're good. We're going to move forward. Uh, it's going to be, I won't tell you guys too much because there's there's a there's a gimmick that i'm actually personally really proud of um i think it was my idea maybe it wasn't i raised the concern in which case i'm proud of my team i think you raised the idea okay i'm really i'm really proud of either me or my team for coming up with this

Starting point is 01:35:06 idea because the gimmick i think is going to rejuvenate is the i think the right word you think so i think it'll rejuvenate it i think it's going to be back to basics in a way that you guys are going to be really happy about but also something new in a way that I think is going to be really fun. That's what I'll say. I don't want to spoil the gimmick. Yeah, we can't spoil the gimmick. I think we've got to at least... All right, I won't talk about it now.

Starting point is 01:35:34 I want them tuning into the first part having no idea what the gimmick is because it's going to be one of those they did not, no way moments, and I'm really excited for it but yeah scrapyard wars is coming back i think the timing genuinely makes sense i think so too because with a big part of the reason why we stopped at one we did too many too close to each other and the the gimmicks were getting kind of not great it was getting kind of contrived and especially it didn't help that everyone's gotta have you gotta have the right mindset and i feel like we uh we tried to create rule sets that didn't reward the right mindset to make a good scrapyard war i think there was a couple as well where not just the rule set

Starting point is 01:36:19 leaned into that but the the budget was like just way too high yeah like what made scrapyard was good was needing to be scrappy and like what made scrapyard was good was needing to be scrappy and there was a few budgets where it was just like okay we're just building computers yeah yeah exactly so you need to kind of like fight for it um but the then immediately after that the used market just got horrible yeah it was completely destroyed there was no there was nothing scrapyard nothing yeah there was like no point empty wars not like yeah, and not only was there basically nothing available But the prices on it was like and times it was more expensive anything capable of an internet connection was suddenly worth a thousand dollars I'm looking at this going well. This is ridiculous. This doesn't make any sense yeah

Starting point is 01:37:02 So now I mean it's not a hundred percent fixed because oh boy ai gpus and stuff like that but it's way better of a landscape now oh yeah a hundred percent a hundred percent yeah i'm excited the the gimmick is linus and luke have to grow their beards to wizard length i tried no the middle ground is rough yeah You need like years for that to be cool. Yeah, no, there's no way. Yeah. What? No, nothing.

Starting point is 01:37:30 I was just wondering if you're at the middle ground right now or if you're aware that you're at the middle ground right now. No, I know I need to. Okay. Yeah, me too. I'm a little overdue. Yeah. Oh, well.

Starting point is 01:37:42 All right. Three merch messages? Yeah, right, right. Hit us right right hit us dan oh yeah sure uh let's see here uh hey dll uh we've already read that one goodbye hey linus now the pandemic is over in quotations is what officials say i guess are you planning on shaving your beard? Maybe for a fundraiser video. I actually did think about shaving it earlier this week, but not for any particular reason that will be apparent for a while. People might figure it out at some point, but I'm not going to say anything more about it for now.

Starting point is 01:38:23 But it basically just comes down to what my wife says if she says get rid of it then it's gone and if she says keep it then it then i keep it and she says she still likes the look of it better than better than uh bare face so i am keeping the the furry face instead of the bear face yeah same reason. We're, you know, Well, I also just like it's easier for me anyways, so if she prefers it, which is the only person I care about, if they like what I look like, so she prefers it anyways, and it's like okay, well, this is kind of a win-win. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, moving on next one hey dll and bread what would your reaction be if apple spent five percent of its cash stockpile to buy valve announced built-in rosetta like emulation for steam games on mac and announced an apple i deck uh disbelief because i actually think that valve

Starting point is 01:39:22 is probably worth a lot more than 5% of Apple's cash reserves. See, that's the thing. Valve is a private company. We have no idea, except that we know that Valve is a literal money printing machine. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Valve is, okay, what is Apple's cash reserves right now? Hold on one second.

Starting point is 01:39:43 Apple cash reserves. Don't forget that Valve takes 30% of sales. Oh, we know. Yeah, well, we know. We know. Apple's cash in hand was $62.48 billion. Did you just suggest that Valve could be purchased for around $750 million?

Starting point is 01:40:00 Yeah, you better add an order of magnitude or two. Valve is, we have no idea. That's the thing. But on top of Valve making copious, copious amounts of money, their future outlook is outstanding. If I had an opportunity to invest in Valve, I would. Like, all conflicts of interest aside, this is not investment advice blah blah i'm not a financial advisor etc but if i had the opportunity i would freaking go for it they have shown time and time again that their moats are unimpassable um epic games couldn't do it. Microsoft can't even put a dent in Valve's near monopolistic position

Starting point is 01:40:48 in PC game sales. And now that Valve is building their own hardware platform around it, holy shit. Yeah. People are saying Valve is estimated at 8 billion, but based on what? There's no way. We don on what? There's no way.

Starting point is 01:41:05 We don't know. There's no way. I guarantee you if they went open suddenly, their valuation would be way higher than that. There's actually no way. And valuation is not as simple as money in, money out, but that's the other thing. As far as I can tell,

Starting point is 01:41:20 their overhead compared to a company like Apple is nothing. Minuscule. Nothing. Yeah. Like how many people work there? hell their overhead compared to a company like apple is nothing minuscule nothing yeah like how many people work there isn't it like a few hundred people i don't think we even know i found an estimate i don't think we do know i found an estimation website um that that thinks there's valve believes only 10000 people around the world are capable of working for the company. I don't know what the hell that means. I found an estimation site that said they think it's 350, but I don't think that's based on anything. I found another one that claims 1,100.

Starting point is 01:41:56 I mean, this is like celebrity net worth articles. Yes. We might as well just play darts again and just throw darts at a thing with numbers on it. We might as well make that our estimate. We don't, we don't know unless we work there. And even people who work there, I don't even know if they would know because they obviously do some remote

Starting point is 01:42:11 work given that Gabe Newell like lives in New Zealand now or whatever. So, uh, there can't be more than three people at valve because they can't count higher than that. No, no, no,

Starting point is 01:42:21 that's not right because they can't count higher than that. We don't know how many people work at Valve, and neither do they. And yeah, that wouldn't account for any of the contractors that might work with Valve on projects. No, I... Nobody knows. I don't

Starting point is 01:42:39 think anyone's buying Valve anytime soon. I mean, look at the valuation of a company like Epic, who can't even figure out how to compete with valve like what's what's epic games worth yeah they make other stuff though uh sure yeah they've got the engine business but if valve felt like having an engine business i'm sure they could bother with it at some point they sort of do right valve can't you use barely uh who uses uses Source? Titanfall 2 was in Source. Okay, so one game from like eight years ago. I don't look into...

Starting point is 01:43:10 Is Gold Source even out yet? Half-Life Alyx was Gold Source, right? Epic Games is valued at $32 billion. I guarantee you. I give you my personal Linus Tech Tips guarantee that Valve is worth more than Epic Games by at least some Multiplication factor so okay, so apex legends isn't source

Starting point is 01:43:31 But it's it's really not There's very few other It's like Titanfall and apex and then valve games It's not very many on a hike there are other ones But it's not very on a high kids in floatplane chat says valve mostly just want source for themselves the documentation is allegedly horrendous Yeah, that doesn't surprise me just valve doing valve things work on whatever you want no one ever wants to work on documentation Jamin 1916 says valve was was valued at $7.7 billion in May 2022 based

Starting point is 01:44:08 on Bloomberg calculations. But let me tell you a thing. I actually, I don't remember if it was Bloomberg or someone else. Maybe it was like Forbes or something. These like reputable sounding publications. I remember seeing like a YouTuber net worth ranking

Starting point is 01:44:24 thing or YouTuber earnings ranking thing that i was going through and i was like i know some of these people this is very wrong not even close you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and so i reached out i dm'd the author of the article i was like hey as someone who you know knows a thing or two about this industry i would be curious to understand your methodology for calculating these they just straight up didn't reply to me of course not because they don't have a satisfactory reply i threw a dart at a wall yeah pretty much so that 7.7 billion they might as well have actually pulled it out of the thing that they use to this to light up like it's no forget it

Starting point is 01:45:06 um pretzel parkour and floatplane chat i couldn't agree more they say let's put this talk to rest valve is worth at least two dollars yeah yeah that and i mean here's here's another thing guys something is worth whatever someone will pay so we can argue all day about what it's worth people are gonna pay big money for valve stock if it went public. Twitter, according to the last known purchase price for it, is worth $44 billion. That's a clever way of wording that. But that's the thing, right? So people can talk all day about what their sealed Super Mario Bros, you know, is worth or whatever, right? But it is only worth whatever the next person will pay for it.

Starting point is 01:45:48 We can infer based on previous sales, but we actually don't know the worth of anything until somebody actually forks over money for it. So we could make educated guesses if we had access to their financials or whatever else. But even then we wouldn't know because like I said, I think Valve's outlook is extremely positive. I think they're nowhere near done growing. I don't think gaming is anywhere near done growing i don't think valve look at the okay capability or potential for broadening their business is anywhere near

Starting point is 01:46:14 done growing and if you were like a disney style corp yeah imagine the money printing machine releasing half-life 3 would be oh Oh, yeah. Yep. Like the potentiality. Half-Life, the cinematic universe. Yeah. Team Fortress, the movie. Yeah. Team Fortress, I'd go to that. I would too.

Starting point is 01:46:33 It'd be awesome. Yeah, like Barbie movie, but Team Fortress. I used to watch, like, yeah, I don't know. I mean, Portal has so much potential. Another Portal game. Another, any game they've made, except for Artifact. Any IP they own, basically. Except for Artifact.

Starting point is 01:46:51 If you were to take, if you were to take like a, oh man, Valve doesn't even participate in like the mobile, like whale harpooning space. Like if you were to take Valve IPs, do they? whale harpooning space like if you were to take valve ips do they it's not mobile but i'd say like csgo boxes and sure but it's a completely different market so you're right you could yeah you could get more from going from mobile for sure i i'm just i'm just saying because i knew people you're right why not both but and i agree but some people are going to be like, so I was just making sure the clarification was made. Like if they did some mobile, like, you know, what's that? If they did like a tiny tower, but you build an aperture, you know, test facility and they included all the typical, you know, valve trimmings,

Starting point is 01:47:39 people play the crap out of that. Yeah, absolutely. That sounds sick. I would play that. Right? Yeah. People would spend copious amounts of money on that. Yeah, absolutely. That sounds sick. I would play that. Right? Yeah. People would spend copious amounts of money on it. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 01:47:50 So, I don't know. Yeah, so that $12 billion, whatever it was, is just wrong. I guarantee it. It's completely wrong. If Valve was evaluated at $12 billion, I'd just invest everything I have immediately. Again, not advice, blah, blah, blah. But, like, holy crap, because you know that's hockey sticking the second people realize how incredibly undervalued it is.

Starting point is 01:48:11 Like, I don't know. One interesting thing, just because we're talking about Steam, this has been something that I've been paying a lot of attention to, actually. I've been checking it every day. Really? Which is the most played games on Steam. Valve? Because it has the current valve current

Starting point is 01:48:26 players one so it is interesting that counter-strike and dota are like always here team fortress 2 oh yeah you can see team fortress 2 is like almost always in the top 10 which i actually found pretty interesting as well but this little battle oh has been really interesting to watch. Because Baldur's Gate 3 has been consistently winning for a while now. I think it took like three days after Starfield's release for Baldur's Gate to pass it again. And it's not even close right now. And it's not close.

Starting point is 01:48:56 It's been roughly half when jumping down to Starfield for a while now. And Baldur's Gate 3 came out, what, like a month beforehand in fairness fans of the genre have been more starved for baldur's gate when's the last time we got a dungeons and dragons-esque rpg this my understanding is the second Dragon Age sucked.

Starting point is 01:49:27 There was a lot of criticism of even the first Dragon Age that it was pretty normie. So you'd have to go all the way back to what? Like Neverwinter Nights 2 or something stupid like that. There's a bunch of... There's more indie ones. But like... And like you could say Divinity Original Sin 2. ones. But like... And like you could say Divinity Original Sin 2.

Starting point is 01:49:47 Okay. But not really. Is it kind of like Dragon Age? I haven't played that one. So is it kind of like Dragon Age? Where it's like kind of-ish? Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:49:56 Whereas like hardcore D&D freaking rules. I want my dice rolls. It's been a long time. Yeah, I think so. And that space has grown exponentially since then and and okay a whole bunch of people are jumping on me i didn't say any of the reasons why i've just been saying it's been very interesting to me people are saying it's on game pass game pass isn't going to show up on steam yeah i know i agree i just find it very interesting that's all

Starting point is 01:50:21 and and the thing too to understand is we're looking at an apples to apples number, right? Luke is comparing the steam numbers to the steam numbers. So yes, what they're saying though, is that these like Baldur's Gate three isn't on game pass. I know if it was on game pass, the amount of people playing on steam would probably be lower, et cetera,

Starting point is 01:50:39 et cetera, et cetera. But I still, I just find it very interesting. Cause if you asked people how this was going to play out two months ago even with you know ballers gate 3 was in pre-release people knew it was a great game stuff like that i still bet you they would have said starfield i don't know that i would have but then honestly for me i find i like i'd be bringing my own

Starting point is 01:51:01 personal biases to that it wouldn't be based on know, some kind of market research I've done or anything like that. It would just be based on that. To me, Starfield is a way less interesting game. I'm just like, yeah, okay. Like I really like Starfield itches that part of my brain that Bethesda games have always itched.

Starting point is 01:51:19 I love Starfield. Huge fan of it so far. Ballsgate 3, I think, is just like gonna be game of the year. It's an incredible game. Okay, maybe I'll have to play it. It's fantastic. Very good for co-op.

Starting point is 01:51:31 Four player, up to four player co-op. You know what I've been really disappointed by? Sea of Stars. Really? Speaking of starry games. Oh. Yeah. That actually kind of sucks to hear.

Starting point is 01:51:42 I was really excited to play it I I kind of blitzed through a little bit of the end of chained echoes to kind of get through it so that I could pick up sea of stars and I've been a lot more harsh on it to anyone who's talked to me about it over the last Week and a half or however however long it's been had I had I mentioned that I'd started playing it last man show I can't remember exactly when I picked it up i think you might have said that you were going to be playing like this weekend or something okay sure i don't think you said you're playing so

Starting point is 01:52:11 anyone i've talked to this week about it i've been way more harsh but i think i had a bit of a bit of a light bulb moment last night when i realized it's a great game for kids it's really simple it's beautiful it is absolutely beautiful it's one of the most beautiful 16-bit games i've ever seen i just i just i actually i can't think of one that's more beautiful there it's the most beautiful 16-bit game i've ever seen it the music is incredible and you can just sometimes people want to chill relax game you can look at concept art and you can listen to the soundtrack I guess because you don't really need to play the game in my in my opinion unless yeah you're well see here's here's the thing it's not even it not even really chill. I actually find that it requires a significantly higher degree of user intervention and attentiveness than something like a classic Final Fantasy game or something like a Chained Echoes, which conveniently I just played. decide comparison here because the combat is very quick time event heavy so you have to like complete rhythmic button mashing segments and you have to be paying really close attention to these

Starting point is 01:53:32 combo breaks and it's um i find it really tedious and as someone who actually enjoys the like bs of um so as someone who actually enjoys the bs of like micromanaging my equipment and my and my relics and my and my upgrade progression and my skill set and stuff like that it has basically none of it you have a weapon you have an armor slot you have two accessory slots and then one other one i forget i forget what the crap it is but it's it's basically something else so the the looting is totally unrewarding you just you might pick up i don't like when armor is one thing you might pick up a better whatever but there's no there's no set combos there's no um there's no status effects. There's no poison. There's no burn. There's no attack up, defense up. There's no buffs.

Starting point is 01:54:32 How can you have a combat system without buffs? There's weaknesses, but the weaknesses are sort of randomly balanced. I think they said one of the first patches is going to address some balance issues. I don't know exactly what balance issues they're going to address. But I also found the exploration really unrewarding. I had a segment last night because I was talking to David about it where I was saying, yeah, I'm like actually kind of disappointed by it, where it sort of summed up exactly what my problem was with the game. You come to this door and there's two like spots that you obviously have to put something in. And then what you do in order to open the door is you go and you journey like one screen over to the right and you pick up a thing and you bring it back and you put it in the door.

Starting point is 01:55:19 And then you go one screen over to the right. And then there's a little like ledge that you have to slowly scoot across. And then you get to a thing and then you jump down a thing and you pick up a thing. And then you bring it back and you put it in the other side of the door. No puzzle. No fight. I have a... Just wasting my fucking time to open the door.

Starting point is 01:55:41 I'm going to avoid saying what it is because yeah uh discussing it too directly is going to be a big spoiler for starfield but there's a thing that you end up needing to do multiple times which it's it's like you know it's supposed to be this big epic moment yeah uh because of how the audio works and all this other kind of stuff and you have to do it multiple times but it's like identical every time and the first time you do it you're like whoa like what's the what's the like puzzle i'm gonna have to do or something like that and then it's just incredibly like brain dead simple and also very tedious and then you have to do it every single time and it's like oh man okay yeah people are already saying there's a

Starting point is 01:56:22 mod for that. There is. But there shouldn't be. Yeah. I'm really glad you brought that up because I got my first ultimate move in Sea of Stars. And two weeks ago, I would have said, I can't think of a single person who watched the summons in Final Fantasy VII and thought, what a great gameplay

Starting point is 01:56:47 experience he's mentioned this i've never still i've never played final fantasy 7 but i know that apparently i'm gonna hate the summons if i ever do but i can think of one person whoever the creative director is for sea of stars because i kid you not the once you press ultimate you can basically like put down i'm playing on the rg ally so you can put down your your game console you can put down your controller you can like go grab a bag of chips or something or a drink from the fridge and come back and it And it might not be done yet. It is so long. And as far as I can tell, it's not skippable. Just, just stupid. Just bad, bad design that was bad when Final Fantasy VII did it like 20 years ago.

Starting point is 01:57:42 Yeah, when did Final Fantasy VII come out actually? Yeah, man, yeah, like 20 years ago. Yeah. When did Final Fantasy VII come out actually? Yeah, man. Yeah. Like 20 years ago. And so I. My thing with Starfield and Baldur's Gate 3 right now is I love both of them. They're both amazing games. Starfield, I could talk about my criticisms of it for a day. Baldur's Gate 3, I have one singular criticism for it. One. And it's like definitely not game breaking I think it would just make the experience a little bit better and honestly uh they've talked

Starting point is 01:58:14 about how like people are begging them to release DLC for it because it's just such an amazing game they want more content yeah um and they could totally like bring it into one of those if they wanted to but they also games as a service or whatever season these are. Oh no. I'm saying like this feature that I want. Basically the, the, the only thing that I don't like about ball is gate three.

Starting point is 01:58:33 Uh, and, and this was brought up by ploof. Um, and I had already had this like feeling, but he, he described it better. Um,

Starting point is 01:58:40 but when you, when you're running around with your characters, you have four characters. If you're playing single player and then you have however many people following you that you don't have players if you're playing multiplayer or if you're playing full multiplayer you just have your four people but the person that starts the event or conversation or whatever thing pulls you into the like you have to do dice rolls and conversation stuff thing whatever character is there first is the one that has to deal with the entire thing but if you're thinking about it if you're in like a party

Starting point is 01:59:09 in an actual dnd game and your whole party is standing there and there's like someone pinned under a tree you would use your strength character but in ballers gate 3 if it was your like low strength intelligence character that runs up first, then they're the person that has to do the check. Or they're the person that has to handle the conversation or whatever else. So it would be cooler if, as long as they were in some amount of reasonable range, because you can split the party. So if the party's split, this shouldn't work.

Starting point is 01:59:44 But if the party's all together and close, you should be able to use the correct person in your party. That would be cool. But also also it's pretty unimportant yeah and i it's so unimportant that i didn't even like fully flesh out the thought that i didn't like that part and was just like this game's amazing because it's like not really that big of a deal because the way that i do it is i just lead with my charisma character if i'm in a town and i just lead with my like tankier characters if I'm not in a town and it mostly solves basically you just got good basically and everyone else should just get good pretty much toxic gamer moment right here this guy but they they could like yeah all right want to hit us with another merch message someone said you can change can't you yeah I might also just be a noob. I don't know. But that's my only criticism. Get gooder than Luke. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:00:25 Basically. Yeah. HelloWan.dll. Does Linus or Luke think we will ever see a game console that has upgradable graphics cards? Nintendo technically did that with the N64. No. It wasn't a graphics card. Well, it did augment the graphics subsystem.

Starting point is 02:00:42 Okay. It wasn't a graphics card. Was there a PCB in it? It wasn't. It wasn't. Just answer the question. Technically, yes. Okay. Then was it a graphics card? What specifically was it? It was just memory, right? I don't remember. It doesn't matter.

Starting point is 02:00:59 Nintendo. Was it a graphics card? No. I mean, did it have a PCB in it? I'm gonna try to find it. Did it have a graphics card? No. I mean, did it have a PCB in it? I'm gonna try to find it. Hold on. Did it have a finger connector? Hold on! Alright, yeah, just, why don't you just look it up? Fine, just look it up. World's first eGPU. I'm trying to remember what it was. I could just be totally wrong.

Starting point is 02:01:18 The Nintendo 64 expansion pack was an add-on for the N- oh, what just loaded? Get rekt. A giant ad that scrolled the entire 64 that doubled the amount of RAM the N64 had to 8 megabytes. Nice. Yeah! The N64 had to eight megabytes nice It's allowed for greater resolution Longer draw distance and more detailed graphics, but it's just more RAM. Okay fine you in memory expense So then Star Fox for Super Nintendo is it a graphics card? I wish I thought of that. Oh, that's good. I don't know. I was mostly just bugging you Oh

Starting point is 02:02:11 We should do one more merch message because I haven't even told people what the like new stuff on the show is We haven't even shown the reversible bomber jacket and the merino t-shirt yet. It's reversible. Yeah, it's reversible I saw that there was an orange one. I thought it's just a different product No, that's cool. I haven't seen these before check it out. Yeah, sure all right I wouldn't let Luke look at it before the show so he gets to experience them now. Oh hi He's trying he's really good at this So it's like a sort of slightly puffy bomber style jacket there's ever so subtle orange accenting on the LTT on the front of it you can

Starting point is 02:02:51 barely catch it from the side it's on the it's on the edge a little bit yeah so you can see it slightly better there that's pretty cool I like that it's subtle and it's I mean yeah it's kind of hard you're able to really stand up, so you can't really okay sure yeah You can kind of see the bottom and then go ahead and reverse it the reverse side is okay Hold on this one if you're if you're wondering about fit this one's a little big on me Because this is a 2xl and I'm normally a 1xl. Oh, okay. Sorry. I guess they brought you the wrong stuff I'm just saying because people are seeing it so I want to make it clear that like you are clearly new to Reversible garments you got to pull the sleeve while you ever had one while you take it off. That's the key. That's the trick

Starting point is 02:03:30 Now let's see. Let's see how many people notice this I'm really excited for this the tag by the way that is on the outside right now is a removable tag it just rips off Okay Let's see. Let's see how many people notice just give them it's more orange in person i will say that right now dan is this color accurate this display oh my god uh no okay uh i just kind of vibrant orange i looked over there uh at actual luke and that is extremely orange yeah the oh my god is because the difference is quite striking. It's quite like kind of peachy in the camera feed, but it is orange.

Starting point is 02:04:10 This is almost like security orange. Yes. It's almost like it's blowing out the camera, at least on this monitor. It's very orange. Okay, so hold still for a second. Let's see if anybody notices. Let's see if Luke notices. Notice what?

Starting point is 02:04:22 Do you notice anything? Just see if you notice anything. Is this stitching LTT or something? Yeah! Oh! The whole thing is LTT. I couldn't actually like tell. Oh, I can see it now.

Starting point is 02:04:33 On the sleeve there's a T. Yeah! Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool, right? This is a ridiculous company. Yeah, I know. Who thinks of stuff like that? That's nuts!

Starting point is 02:04:41 I actually don't remember who thought of that, but it's... I think that's pretty cool. What the heck? Brilliant idea. Amazing. Oh, I can see it. Yeah, now that I actually don't remember who thought of that, but I think that's pretty cool idea amazing Oh, I can see it. Yeah now that I actually like look at it. I can see it wearing it is a little hard Oh, you can see it on the sleeves though. Yeah. Yeah, so I actually like the like quilted appearance I don't know if that's the right term, but yeah, it's like a puffy kind of yeah. Yes. It looks all right Yeah, so that's available on the site right now. And we are also launching our Merino t-shirt.

Starting point is 02:05:08 So this is a wool t-shirt. The benefits of Merino wool are several. Let's see if we... Yeah. Yeah, here we go. All right, here, we'll just flip over to the site here. Our LTT Merino wool t-shirt, where comfort meets performance in one extraordinary tee.

Starting point is 02:05:23 It's comfortable, light, and keeps its shape with excellent moisture-wicking properties to keep you feeling fresh, wool t-shirt where comfort meets performance in one extraordinary tea it's comfortable light and keeps its shape with excellent moisture wicking properties to keep you feeling fresh even in a hardcore cod session merino wool also helps with temperature regulation and minimizes odors it's kind of an amazing material i've i've wanted to do something with merino wool ever since i uh got my merino wool socks that i absolutely love. It's a super simple tee. It's black, but it is Merino. It is indeed a t-shirt that is black.

Starting point is 02:05:51 There's the only logos down here. Yeah, that's a tiny little logo. We're trying to keep things subtle, right? Like even the bomber jacket, it's like, yeah, sure, it has LTTs all over it, but if you don't know what you're looking for, you might never actually notice it. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:06:08 LTT has become a clothing line that sponsors a tech hobby. What a dream come true. I know, right? Someone said, do you actually do big sizes now? We don't do tall. Not yet, but we're working on it. Yeah. Yeah, we are.

Starting point is 02:06:22 Work harder on it. Yeah, I know, I know. Well, part of the problem is that one of our one of our fit people who's like really really great uh was not in office for a very very extended period of time i can't give you guys any like personal details or anything about it it's a good thing it's a happy thing but they were not in office for a very very long time this is nice and they are very much in office now and very committed to getting our extended sizing going. So I'm really excited.

Starting point is 02:06:51 All right. Yeah. So it's nice. It's not cheap. It's a $60 shirt. Merino wool is like that. Go ahead. Price compare.

Starting point is 02:07:02 It's our shirt. So you know the fit's going to be awesome and it's going to be comfortable. It's going to be the quality is going to be great for some people. So it's our shirt so you know it's gonna the fit's gonna be awesome and it's gonna be comfortable it's gonna be the quality is gonna be great for some people so it's our shirt yeah well until we get to tall but it's our shirt so you know it's gonna be good and it's merino so you know it's gonna be merino so there you go uh all right was there oh there was oh there's one oh shoot there's hey i can work out in an LTT shirt now. Yes, you can. Oh, by the way.

Starting point is 02:07:26 That makes sense. This is official. Yeah. The LTT retro screwdriver is coming. Level up your tool game. No coins required. Enter your email. All you got to do is go to lttstore.com slash pages slash retro dash sign up.

Starting point is 02:07:40 So I'm going to drop that in the chat. Nice. I promise you, we did actually think of this before it made its way to uh to reddit but um you know what hey if you're some if you're one of the people who posted this on reddit because more than more than one person did come up with this um then you can you can you can give yourself a you can give yourself a little pat on the back. Yeah, we're very excited about this one. And then finally, we would like you guys to send us your favorite garment.

Starting point is 02:08:16 Send us your favorite garment and tell us some of what you like about it. We're going to post that link in the chat as well. Go check it out. We just want to understand what you guys wear, what you guys love, why you wear it, why you love it and kind of help help guide us because obviously we have plenty of cool ideas on our own but we're always open to new ones and uh really excited to you know build stuff that is that is for you okay that's it that's all the that's all the merch talk for this week yeah were we doing one more though i think that was um no, I think Dan put up two to

Starting point is 02:08:45 three more topics. So why don't we talk about California passing right to repair? Hey, let's go. California is now the third U S state to pass right to repair laws for consumer appliances and electronics alongside New York and Minnesota. To be clear, it's not a law yet because it has yet to be signed by the governor, but he is a supporter of the bill and therefore will likely do so. The California bill requires that manufacturers retain repair parts, tools, manuals, and software documentation for at least three years post-production for products that are sold for between $50 and $100 and up to seven years for products over $100.

Starting point is 02:09:21 It also bars manufacturers, so they cannot do it, from charging independent repair technicians more for repair materials than they would their own repair network, although I can already see how that might be, that might have some loopholes open in it for abuse. There are still a few carve-outs. The new law won't stop manufacturers from creating software blocks to prevent third parties from fixing devices. Okay. Or from combining single parts into complex assemblies, which we have encountered before.

Starting point is 02:09:53 I don't know if you remember this part of the iMac Pro saga, but part of the reason that a replacement motherboard was so expensive was because Apple considered a motherboard plus the CPU plus RAM. I don't remember if it was the cooler as well, but, like, the motherboard was an assembly with the socketed CPU. How does that make any sense? Anyway. Right-to-repair advocates have been pleased overall, though,

Starting point is 02:10:19 with the language of the new bill, but expressed concern about the involvement of Apple, who is a major backer of the bill. In a concern about the involvement of Apple, who is a major backer of the bill. In a letter to the bill's sponsor, Senator Susan Eggman, Apple said that its support was contingent on continued protection of its intellectual property and certain restrictions on third-party repair shops, like not permitting them to turn off its anti-theft remote locks and requiring them to disclose to customers when they use third-party or second-hand parts i mean both of those things are fine but we know for a fact

Starting point is 02:10:48 that apple has other less fine restrictions that they place on third-party repair shops according to egman's chief staff apple was involved early on in the development of the bill and participated in a very constructive manner. Okay. Yeah, interesting. Every time there's like something passes for right to repair, there's a lot of asterisks. Cool. Apple has publicly framed its involvement

Starting point is 02:11:13 as a way of maintaining its products longevity and their value over their expected lifetime as well as increasing its customers access to safe, high quality repair options while also protecting their safety, security, and privacy. That's a very PR statement. That means that they might have made a bet. I haven't read the bill,

Starting point is 02:11:33 but I'm a lot less excited about this than I was before because Apple would go as far as to re-engineer the functioning of an SSD to make sure that you can't upgrade any other stuff in your system without losing all your data. Like, that's actually the way that they behave. So, cool then.

Starting point is 02:11:56 In other news... Destiny 2? Yeah, yeah. Destiny 2 cheater legally barred from all Bungie games. A prolific Destiny 2 cheater has agreed to consent judgment in a u.s court barring him from ever playing a bungee game ever again how on earth

Starting point is 02:12:12 could you enforce this i have no idea okay we'll get to the the cheater who was 17 at the start of the lawsuit was found to have used cheat software extensively evaded multiple bans and harassed and threatened bungee employees he has also ordered uh he has also been ordered to pay bungee half a million dollars in damages wow wow okay he has likewise agreed to a restraining order barring him from interacting with any current or future bungee ip harassing harassing any Bungie employee or player of Bungie games, or knowingly traveling within a thousand feet of any Bungie office or any home occupied by Bungie employees.

Starting point is 02:12:54 I don't know much about this person, and based on that they were 17 when this whole thing started, maybe their identity is not known. Do you guys know? Is the name out there? But like I don't know clearly some some stuff went down. Yeah, really? This is the latest in a string of legal action Bungie has taken against cheaters and distributors of cheating software including a 4.3 million dollar judgment against a distributor

Starting point is 02:13:20 Aim junkies earlier this year the specific case this specific case centered around one individual cheater appears to be highly unusual. However, some modders have expressed concern about the basis of which the decision was made. The $500,000 fine is in fact composed of 100 fines worth of $2,000 each for individual acts of ban evasion. A hundred ban evasion fines?

Starting point is 02:13:46 Okay. So I think the prolific part was quite genuine. As well as a $300,000 fine for multiple instances of copyright infringement. This larger fine was based on the argument by Bungie that the cheater's use of code injection and graphical overlays qualified as creating an unauthorized derivative work in violation of federal copyright law. Okay, I don't know if I like that precedent. Maybe for multiplayer games.

Starting point is 02:14:15 Oh. No, because Minecraft does that kind of stuff. Well, now hold on a second. See, yeah, that's the thing. On the one hand, if there was a legal framework for pursuing individual cheaters in games, if cheating in games suddenly became illegal. That's sweet. I actually, like, I might be okay with that. Yeah, bring out the hammers.

Starting point is 02:14:41 Because on the one hand, yeah, there's a lot of casual competition. be okay with that because the hammers because on the one hand yeah there's a lot of casual competition but it's like yeah but fair enough then play a casual game with your friends play a custom game where everyone is on the same playing field and then it's fine but people don't treat gaming like that often like to a large degree people do not treat gaming like just a casual thing where, you know, you can just noclip and wallhack or whatever, right? So in much the same way that they regulate professional sports, I don't see why cheating in games shouldn't be a thing that, yeah, is punishable. However, running anything alongside the game suddenly being a derivative work which because remember the law is a lot of the time centered around precedent right not necessarily the original wording this seems really dangerous yeah and like people have brought

Starting point is 02:15:40 up in chat uh someone said wow lets you modify your ui wow lets you do a lot of stuff with add-ons um that i know there's add-ons for various other mmos as well even when they're not allowed by the developer so that would now make that like criminal and what if you're doing it for accessibility reasons but you don't you're not like you don't have the you know this the sign for your rearview mirror but you like do kind of need it or something like i gee yeah that's really and it's one of those things where you know you guys might say okay well yeah but blizzard allows that or that you know who whatever else um well right right but what if it's at their sole discretion and sure i don't know this guy might have had it coming based on the 100 100 fines

Starting point is 02:16:28 yeah you know and and all the restraining orders against bungie employees and all that like like i said some stuff obviously went down here would need to know a lot more about what happened yeah but based on i was just based on people you know people, do I trust every random gaming company whose game I buy on Steam or whatever to act in a consistent and benevolent way towards me? No. Not at all. Not even a little. Yeah. I like the idea of being able to crunch down on cheaters in multiplayer games,

Starting point is 02:17:07 but I'd be highly concerned about how this could be used outside of that. Okay. We need to revisit something I said before. Rolled Gold in Floatplane Chat says, cheating in a professional sport slash game should be illegal, but in casual play, making it illegal is going too far. But here's the thing. Who decides that the game is casual?

Starting point is 02:17:32 That's not a unilateral decision if you're playing a ranked rocket league game and someone on the other side is cheating that's non-consensual you also are you didn't consent to it being casual you're trying to play the game in a ranked setting and how do you define casual or competitive uh some people are talking about car tarkov in here tarkov doesn't have a competitive mode tarkov also doesn't have a casual i think tarkov is implicitly tarkov is i think so as well but it's not technically ranked you just mentioned ranked there's no rankings sure it's just like very serious okay um and honestly as someone else also said in floatplane chat the amount of cheating in tarkov ruined the game for me and now i don't play so you can it can directly even if it's a casual game if you're if you're playing

Starting point is 02:18:19 uh warzone is ranked if you're playing casual counter-strike that is a thing if you're playing casual counter-strike and every game you jump into there's spin botters just auto killing everyone on the map you're not going to want to play the game anymore you're not going to recommend it to anyone it's a bad experience yeah i think making the argument that cheating is theft is one that you could you could make your way to not everyone's going to agree with you is it theft well it is the removal of it is the loss of earnings so it's it's some you you're gonna have to come up with a name for it yeah but it's definitely something that they might have had that now they don't have anymore so is that theft yeah probably not not not by definition but it's harmful there it's harmful um so instead it's more like vandalism sure which is also illegal yeah yeah yeah vandalism

Starting point is 02:19:16 that's who said that that's a really good uh uh ram and robot good good take good take um i've got people talking about how well there is a casual mode for Rocket League Sure fine cool But cheating that still It still sucks But if casual mode was Allowed cheating Well then yeah sure fine

Starting point is 02:19:36 Everyone can just play it Everyone can just have their trainers on Or whatever they call cheap clients these days Yeah no they call cheap clients these days. Yeah, no, I'm split on this one. I don't know. I'm not a huge fan of the precedent being set here, even though obviously some stuff went down. Yeah, I think the precedent is very concerning.

Starting point is 02:19:59 But again, we need to know more about the case. I am overall supportive of cheaters, especially those commercially benefiting from cheating being punished. I think it's not, it's not cool. Like if someone, man, if someone made a device that your kid could wear to the playground and it

Starting point is 02:20:22 immediately sucked all the fun out of the jungle gym for everyone else, would they be allowed to take that to school? Would those devices get banned if they just, you know, if it was like a dementor, you know, hit everyone else on the jungle gym, and it just completely removed the fun from their activity? Like, it's, it's, it's one of those things where it's just like, is it illegal?

Starting point is 02:20:47 Not illegal. I don't know, but obviously no one would be down with it and it wouldn't take long for people to be like, no, that's not cool. And you shouldn't do that anymore. Um,

Starting point is 02:20:55 but for some reason, because we don't have to be face to face with people, cheating just keeps happening. Of course, we're not qualified to talk about it we can we can discuss our our feelings on a matter yeah any gamer is qualified to talk about cheating yeah we're not trying to say we're legal experts like nope i have never said that yeah um oh very slight correction by the way last week during the Lenovo

Starting point is 02:21:29 Legion Go story I seemed to imply at one point that the ROG ally was more powerful than the Legion Go full transparency guys uh Lenovo wasn't stoked on that but that wasn't my intention they they have the same processor Ryzen Z1 Extreme uh when I was talking about it i was

Starting point is 02:21:45 comparing the rog ally to the steam deck i don't have a legion go i have i have not made any comparison i was making comparisons between devices that i own and have used um so there's that also i i think there's an an assumption among some people that we mean that this should result in jail time no lots of things are illegal without resulting in jail time like you're not allowed to park anywhere you want but it's like it's a fine it's not jail time it's a level of enforcement yes do you want to play a game what sure i'm gonna cheat though you're gonna cheat uh actually it's more of a game with the community. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 02:22:28 I don't know. How are we going to pull this? I have no idea. I don't know if we can. Yeah, I'm not sure. We'd have to do each one individually. I think that's going to take too long. Exactly.

Starting point is 02:22:39 Why don't we have them pick a number? I could run them all consecutively. No, let's do it as a... Let's have them pick a number. How many total? Yeah, how many of these? Yeah. Okay.

Starting point is 02:22:51 This has been kind of fun for me to watch, but there has been a lot of feedback on our recent videos that people are really excited about the new direction and the new writing and the vibe of our most recent uploads and how happy they are about the production break and us taking the time to be more relaxed and and do things properly and all of that good stuff and i just want to say um let's play a game i am going to show you guys all the videos that we have uploaded since the production break. And I want you guys to try and we're going to have a poll on float plane, right?

Starting point is 02:23:30 So how many are there total? There's nine total, I believe. I want you guys to answer from zero to nine. How many of those videos you think were produced before? No, let's go with after. How many of those videos do you think were actually produced after the production break versus videos that you think were produced before the production break, but we've just had sitting in the holster waiting to release them? Okay, so how many were produced after? That's what you guys are going to be guessing. So I'm

Starting point is 02:24:04 just going to show you guys. I'll remind you guys of some of the videos here. Here they are. So here's the announcement that we're coming back. This is a members only exclusive or float plane exclusive. So we've got the e-ink monitor that Adam and I checked out. Oh, weird. That one doesn't show up in the screenshot on here oh sorry they're 10 the heck

Starting point is 02:24:28 there's nine there was on on here there's nine yeah it's right there yeah but there was oh that's because that's not logged into memberships so we're ignoring the members only okay so yeah i'm doing one through nine yeah the next one is you'll own nothing and be happy which which is kind of a discussion of hardware DLC. So it's an Intel CPU that you can unlock hyper-threading and some extra cache. There's the Altemu, which I've been informed I pronounced wrong, but I don't care because they don't matter. Yeah, just don't shop there. The Altemu gaming setup, which was a really fun video, by the way.

Starting point is 02:25:04 There's the Apple Newton. So we did a bit of a retrospective on Apple's Palm Pilot competitor. I'm posting the poll now because people are spamming freaking numbers in the chat. It's annoying. There's the AMD Radeon RX 7700 and 7800 XT review.

Starting point is 02:25:21 There's another floatplane exclusive. Oh, I love that. We put the floatplane watermark thumbnail on youtube there's the soviet era gaming mouse uh this one was really fun we bought a mouse from like 1992 or something like that we're not counting the float plane exclusives yeah we're not counting those chad is a little confused tonight that's okay yep uh there's the sonos upgrade so alex and i did a bunch of cable management and moved everything from a horrible mess on the floor to the wall. There's, oh, that one's exclusive as well. Sorry.

Starting point is 02:25:54 There's the Apple iPhone 15 announcement. There's 10 reasons I daily drive a foldable. So all the ones that I listed, that's the nine videos that are included So I am very interested to see the poll I also need to double check my initial the initial results are mostly like everything Five and beyond is like below 5% or at 5% 4 has like

Starting point is 02:26:24 Roughly 12 or 13. Three has roughly just below 30. Two has just above 30. And one is floating around the 15, 16% mark. Obviously, votes are still coming in. We'll see how that lands. But usually within the first like minute, things are pretty close to how they're going to end up.

Starting point is 02:26:42 I have to be honest with you. I actually can't really tell the difference between them and there's one that I need to check. That's kind of funny. Let me just check something really quick. I can't remember. Sometimes the days are just a blur. No, I'm pretty sure.

Starting point is 02:27:01 I'm pretty sure. Okay. The answer is, and here, let me pull up the uh the poll results uh ariel from the lab team ariel yes my bad uh said what are we counting written versus shot shot yeah yeah there's uh i don't think there's anything that was actually written pre and then shot post um on this list anyway all right the answer is three that had as of right now which people are now going to know so yeah but as of right now that was tied for the second highest with 29 so this one had a lot of really positive comments about how you know our tone was like totally different and totally new.

Starting point is 02:27:46 This was shot and almost completely edited before the production break. This one, people didn't really talk about too much. This one, I saw a lot of comments about how, you know, Linus seems like he's pulling his punches or holding back or something. This was shot and edited before the break. We made a couple small changes because we had a bunch of extra time but it was largely produced i saw some of the comments on that about how like oh he's really trying to be more like careful about things now and it was it was definitely before everything happened um yeah uh the apple newton was actually shot the

Starting point is 02:28:20 night before ltx i saw a lot of people talk about how we didn't seem rushed this was one of the most rushed shoots we've ever done which is really cool this was an embargo product so this one was was done very recently the Soviet era gaming mouse I saw so many comments about how this was you know obviously we were taking it to another level. This was edited after, but written and shot before the production break. The Sonos one, this one was actually shot recently, if I recall correctly. This is the one that I was not 100% sure on, but I'm like 99% sure. The Apple announcement, this was done obviously the day that Apple released it. And then then 10 reasons i daily drive a foldable was shot before the production break um j213 21 234 says

Starting point is 02:29:16 it shows how little we know and will ever know about the internal workings of lm Yes, it does. There is. I like to think I'm pretty transparent with you guys. But there's a lot that I cannot say. And there's a lot that it doesn't make sense for me to say. If something got screwed up, for example, you know, in a way, it's a catch-22 for me. If I say, yep, that's on me, then I look incompetent. If I say, that mistake was made by X, then I look like I'm putting down a member of my team. There's no way for me to win. But that comes with the position, right? Is that I know...

Starting point is 02:29:58 You gotta take some hits. And you don't. And all I would ask is that you know that you don't know all right let's talk about the framework gaming handheld because this is so cool so cool oh my goodness this is so cool incredibly well done considering the time frame on this I know right like what the heck okay so what I would like to do, because we don't want this to turn into, you know, a react situation where we are,

Starting point is 02:30:32 where we are cannibalizing the original video. Yeah, you need to go watch the whole time. Hold on, hold on. Oh shoot, oh yeah, okay. No, no, this timestamp is fine. I have it started here, do you want this? No, no, I'm good, I'm good. So I'm gonna start by dumping links into the chat. want you guys to all go there now yeah and we can kind of watch it

Starting point is 02:30:49 together or you know what i'm not even gonna watch it i'm gonna dump this in the chat and we can just talk about it and then we're gonna talk about it but i do want to at least show the people like a a still or two from the video so i'm gonna going to scrub it a little bit, but it's two minutes long. You guys need to watch this. It's so cool. This is just a tiny channel. Pit Stop Tech, 163 subscribers. It was two when I looked,

Starting point is 02:31:17 so people are jumping on it. Not 163,000. 163, okay? World's first fully modular handheld. Description of the video says, Project I've been working on that I'm very passionate about. A fully upgradable gaming handheld where you can upgrade the battery, main board, CPU, RAM, storage by utilizing Frameworks modular components. I will be selling it soon as a DIY kit.

Starting point is 02:31:42 I didn't know that. That's so cool. For those that want another way to reuse or buy new their framework components. That is so sick. I'm so happy that they're doing that. This is super cool. That's fantastic. Obviously, I have some concerns about weight.

Starting point is 02:31:57 I think, what is it? A 60 or 70 watt hour battery or something like that? Yeah, okay. So she's going to be a heavy boy and those bezels are decidedly last gen look i don't want to i don't want to pretend that this is a miracle device or anything like that but if you're if for the use case that this person described in the description if you are updating your like laptop anyways and you can just now have a portable computer isn't this cool? That is so sick.

Starting point is 02:32:26 It's such a cool project. The components they used were an Intel 12th Gen main board with 16 gigs of RAM. They've got a 512 gig SSD in there, though it's a framework, so you could put whatever SSD you want. 55 watt hour battery. There you go. That answers that question.

Starting point is 02:32:39 Seven inch full HD touchscreen, fully featured USB-C port, because it's a frame it's a framework mainboard and then high speed wi-fi and bluetooth um you know when asus was here showing me the rog ally for the first time i said you know guys have you given much thought to repairability and upgradability and you know obviously they were aware of what valve's doing with the steam deck and they are sort of not everyone at asus probably is but you know some people there were aware of framework and i was like you guys in ally 2 or ally 3 get it in the pipeline you guys must address

Starting point is 02:33:19 this because to my knowledge framework isn't working on anything like this yet i am an investor but that doesn't mean i know everything so for for all I know, they could have a Skunk Workers project that's a modular handle. I don't know. But to my knowledge, they're not working on anything like this yet. The best thing that you could do is make it so they don't have to. Be the one who does it. I don't know if they would have the forward thinking to do that, to get out ahead of it. But man, I would like to see someone take this up, an upgradable handheld. Mastery asks, are you going to invest more? No, probably not.

Starting point is 02:34:02 I have other projects that I'm focused on right now, but I'm open to it. So the answer is probably not there. That's the real answer. Yeah, absolutely sick looking project. Oh, you know what would be kind of cool? This is a really good idea. Someone said, hey, you should come have a look

Starting point is 02:34:23 at how the view count. Yeah, Avon Fox says you should go check out how the view count is jumping. I've just been refreshing his channel and watching the subscriber count go up. It's fun. 317 now. It's doubled. This is great. Nice job, man.

Starting point is 02:34:38 Oh, you assume? Nice job, uh, PitStopTech. Is that your phone? I don't know it's under the table yeah I hooked mine over there oh oh oh bad oh sorry I didn't play that video what is happening that that is not a feature of that jacket Luke it's a bomber jacket Not a RFID blocking jacket And then I'm gonna throw a bomb Okay

Starting point is 02:35:09 I'm gonna be stopped The phone is away You know what else is away? WhatsApp's proprietariness Meta is preparing To add the capability to send and receive Messages with other chat apps. Based on a new section for third-party chats spotted in the app's newest update in the Google Play beta program.

Starting point is 02:35:33 This is likely due to the European Union's Digital Markets Act, which requires large companies that it defines as gatekeeper platforms to comply with additional restrictions and responsibilities. as gatekeeper platforms to comply with additional restrictions and responsibilities. Other companies listed as gatekeeper platforms include Alphabet, Amazon, Apple, ByteDance, and Microsoft. One requirement is that any company with a messaging app that has over 45 million active users, 10% of the EU population, must make that app interoperable with other messaging apps which Meta will need to comply with. Can I just say a couple things here?

Starting point is 02:36:09 First, shout out EU. Yeah. And second, we need to have a longer conversation about the double-edged sword that is this kind of legislation. Anyway, hold on. Let's go on for a little bit here first. Part of the goal of the DMA is to institute a preemptive approach to monopolistic behavior rather than responding after the fact with prolonged antitrust investigations the dma also contains significant privacy protections and requires gatekeepers to

Starting point is 02:36:35 get explicit consent from users in order to track their online behavior fines for failure to comply can include up to 10% of a company's revenue and 20% for repeat offenders. So our discussion question here is, should other countries around the world follow the EU's lead or should we take a wait and see approach and just let capitalism do its thing? Before we talk about that, I want to talk about apple switching to usbc um apple switch to usbc on the iphone 15 it's at us kind of hoping that was going to be the whole time yeah it's usb 2.0 speeds whereas on the iphone 15 pro it does usb 3 at speeds of up to 10 gigabit per second and i saw a lot of people upset about it but um we were about halfway through script review when i looked at ploof who who was the writer for for our video and i was like this is not them just hamstringing the 15 this is probably because the 15 uses the a16 bionic

Starting point is 02:37:40 it probably legitimately doesn't have a usb3 controller and so we we looked and we were like okay well what other devices have used the a16 bionic because if an ipad did for example then if that ipad supported usb3 well then it was definitely on the silicon but they never used it in an ipad it was an iphone only soc so i think it's been confirmed at this point but i was i was really glad that we didn't lay into Apple about it because obviously, if it's not on the hardware, it's not going to be in there. So we will likely see an iPhone 16 if it's based on A17 silicon. Could they just align that numbering, please? Just skip one for one or something.

Starting point is 02:38:21 Just skip one for one or something. Anyway, we would likely see an iPhone 16 with the A17 be equipped with USB 3 as sort of just a generational upgrade over the iPhone 15, which has a 16 silicon in it. So you get USB Type-C. I believe it's up to 20 watts of charging. You get USB 2 speeds on the iPhone 15, USB 3 speeds on the iPhone 15 Pro, and obviously the Pro Max or Ultra or whatever the heck they're calling everything these days. And I think that's pretty much everything to say about the Apple event. They also have a new watch or two.

Starting point is 02:39:04 And yeah, you guys can watch the video summary that we did the other day but this was also even though apple will not admit it as part of you know their innovation announcement launch event or whatever else this is also due to pressure from the eu absolutely to standardize the cables and and wall warts and all of the all of the bits and pieces that we need for device charging that Apple has apparently decided to comply with rather than go full, take my ball and go home and just moved everything wireless like has been speculated over the last few years. I have seen a lot of arguments, not all of which i can i can defeat both ways for this on the one hand the eu the eu's action here towards platform interoperability and in the case of apple

Starting point is 02:40:01 reducing waste and okay i'd like to stop everyone who is saying well what about all the lightning cables that are going to be wasted now all of those lightning cables were going to be wasted yeah the difference is now we aren't going to keep manufacturing any more of them that's the point eventually lightning was going to go away. Apple's been moving away from lightning for like six years. It's just a matter of how many more of these bloody things we keep making that will eventually be thrown away. In fact, every USB-C cable is probably going to be thrown away at some point. But at least by standardizing it, we can produce fewer of them

Starting point is 02:40:43 so that we don't need to have more than one cable for our iPad and for our iPhone and then another one for our iPad and our iPhone in our, you know, carry, you know, a bag that we take to and from work, et cetera, et cetera. It's a reduction move. It's not that suddenly, you know, all those lightning cables are garbage and we've done a bad thing by switching over to USB-C. It's we will stop producing lightning cables at some point in the near future, and that is a good thing. That's the whole point of it. So with that said, I have seen arguments that the EU's move might not necessarily be if even if it's a good move this time it might set a really bad precedent because let's talk about lightning for a second people

Starting point is 02:41:32 like to dunk on it today but lightning was huge when it came out i actually really liked lightning major advantage iphone when lightning was first introduced compared to USB micro B which was a piece of crap and you can quote the rated insertions all day I don't care I do not believe you my anecdotal experience with USB micro B has been extensive enough and negative enough that you will never sell me that micro B was anything other than a failed standard. It was a bad connector. Fragile, finicky, terrible. Also, the space advantage over Mini B? Negligible.

Starting point is 02:42:18 If every phone had just used Mini B until we got Type C, I would have been way happier with that. And Mini B was a piece of crap. I even have some weird hot takes about Lightning as a non-Apple user. They actually just like the connector more. Yeah. I find it plugs in better. I'm not even talking compared to MicroB.

Starting point is 02:42:35 I'm talking compared to C. Sure. I find it plugs in significantly better. Yep. It has a really clear tactile, I'm inserted right now, feel. I think it's slightly smaller. Is that accurate? Then type C?

Starting point is 02:42:50 Yeah. Yeah, it's marginally smaller. Yeah, so it's a little bit smaller. Remember, you've got to account for the housing on the other side and blah, blah, blah. Yeah, so it's hard to really know. It's marginally smaller. But I think it's slightly smaller and the plug-in feels wildly better. I've always kind of wished that the actual standard was the lightning cable.

Starting point is 02:43:08 The problem is that lightning is too small to have enough conductors for modern functionality. I'm just talking from a like tactile. Sure. Yeah. And that's a big part of why lightning has lost its luster because while it does have actually more conductors than USB 2, I forget what Apple uses them for.

Starting point is 02:43:24 I think it's like auxiliary data transfer. That's how they're able to do HDMI over lightning and stuff like that. It is at significantly lower bandwidth than a real HDMI connection, but it does allow them to do additional things that you wouldn't be able to do with straight up USB 2. Yes, Chad, I know they're bums about the licensing. I'm also even looking right now at a usbc to lightning adapter that is 40 dollars um i'm just talking about the tactile

Starting point is 02:43:52 experience of using the cable i actually very much like lightning that's all i'm saying su4aws says too few conductors isn't a hard problem to solve it sure is actually Actually, yeah, what? It dramatically increases the complexity of the ICs at either end to have fewer conductors. They have to operate at it. You either have to increase the speed of the cars on the road, or you have to increase the number of lanes. And so USB-C adds, A, more speed, and B, a lot more lanes for data to travel along compared to a lightning connector with that said why um mystery me says usb3 was possible over lightning. The iPad pros that had lightning supported USB three speeds over lightning was, is that enough?

Starting point is 02:44:49 Hold on a second. USB, uh, cause USB three was nine conductors when we got it. Lightning is only seven. So that would have been, every one of my lightning cables has a burn pin says reckoning. Okay. That's something I haven't personally experienced, although I have used it a fair bit, but we do have people talking in the chat about some design flaws in

Starting point is 02:45:12 lightning. Oh, lightning is eight. Okay. I did not know that. I knew light. I thought lightning was seven. Okay.

Starting point is 02:45:18 Either way, either way, for whatever reason, whether it was cost on the device side, whether it was cost of the implementation on the client side, Apple did not broadly roll out higher data speeds over Lightning. USB-C is clearly the path forward and is so much more capable, so much more standardized, and generally the right decision. Why don't we just leave it at that and then go into the next thing that I want to discuss, which is arguably they got it right this time,

Starting point is 02:45:52 but given in general governing bodies, it has a potential to stifle innovation, understanding of tech generally. It also has a potential to causeifle innovation. Understanding of tech, generally. It also has a potential to cause things like USB Forum to fall into complacency. What are the odds they're going to get it right every time? Yeah. That's my bigger question.

Starting point is 02:46:16 Because, yeah, those are totally valid concerns. Now are we stuck with USB-C forever? Forever's a long freaking time. Yeah. And you're right yeah we we can we can make the cars drive faster and we do have a lot more flexibility in the USB C standard than we do in something like lightning there's a lot more conductors but is it gonna be perfect forever I mean no I can already see things about it that aren't perfect like like you said the the tactile feel of the

Starting point is 02:46:43 insertion is is not as good. There's tiny, tiny little pins, tiny, tiny little contacts on both sides. It can be a little bit fragile. It can also be not fragile. We did that video ages ago, back when James started, one of his first jobs was to unplug and plug in an external drive, like literally thousands of times until we managed to wear out every connector but the Type-C or something like that. I think we went to the rated number of insertions. It was literally thousands of times. Angle of insertion is not as wide, says Furingo.

Starting point is 02:47:15 Yeah, exactly. There are definitely problems with Type-C. So are we stuck with it forever now? And should we be allowing these governing bodies to make these decisions was there ever a referendum on this is this actually democratic i have no i have no idea i can't speak to that at all i have no clue no okay yeah it's not democratic okay so man i am i am torn, man. Yeah, what happens when lobbyists get involved and then they just, you know, pass down edicts

Starting point is 02:47:51 that are advantageous to, I don't know, Microsoft over Apple? What recourse is there? I love the decisions that were made in this case, because I'm going to be, my understanding is that this chat thing is going to apply to iMessage as well. So we could end up seeing RCS supported, at least in Europe. And if the Type-C connector is anything to go by, if they support it in Europe to avoid peeving off their American and Asian customers, and Australian, I remember you guys. And also just not, just like double skew everything. All the continents, okay.

Starting point is 02:48:29 In order to, yeah, in order to not peeve off the rest of their customers, I would hope that we would see RCS intercompatibility implemented everywhere else. In general, I really agree with the things that they're doing. I just worry that, you know, you can start out with good intentions and end up doing the wrong things really, really easily.

Starting point is 02:48:50 I don't have a solution to this. No. But I'm really glad that iPhones are type C now. Yeah. All right. I mean, I guess, yeah, there's not really. Dan, do you have any thoughts on this? Are you just busy typing responses to people? I don't know, honestly. I do think it's interesting

Starting point is 02:49:13 how, you know, one governing body by themselves for the protection of their own consumers and constituents makes one decision and then all the companies are required to jump on it because it's cheaper to make one skew than two skews that doesn't mean they're required to no no no no because they're required by the hand of capitalism if you want to think about it that way product development has gotten so expensive no no i agree but it's sorry thank you yeah the clarification is important there that it's not required. Sure.

Starting point is 02:49:48 All right. Yeah, because guiding hand of capitalism, I think, is a good way of saying it, because, I mean, they could just pull out of the EU or they could have an EU-specific SKU or something like that. Yeah, you've got two choices. You make two SKUs, you don't sell there,

Starting point is 02:50:01 or you make one SKU. I think that's three choices. In Type-C news, Intel announces Thunderbolt 5. The connector remains, so we have continuity all the way from Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 5, and this is looking pretty spicy. It is built on USB 4.04 v2 the cable is backwards compatible with previous versions of thunderbolt however if you have a fully thunderbolt 5 compliant ecosystem you will

Starting point is 02:50:34 be able to take advantage of up to 80 gigabit per second of bandwidth and up to 120 gigabit per second with bandwidth boosting which i do not fully understand what they mean by that, but apparently allows more high resolution monitors or something. Thunderbolt 5 can run a single monitor at up to 540 hertz, as many as three monitors running at 4K at 144 hertz each, or even multiple 8K displays. Jason Ziller, head of Intel's client connectivity division

Starting point is 02:51:06 Speculated that Thunderbolt 5 might lead to a resurgence in external graphics. Yeah with basically rtx 30 series and up You're giving up so much performance that the price becomes sort of impractical Yeah, the thing about external graphics is that once you make an investment in an enclosure The thing about external graphics is that once you make an investment in an enclosure, you can hopefully, theoretically, carry it forward for a while. So if we can dramatically increase the bandwidth and you invest, invest, I'm using this term loosely, obviously, but you pony up for a Thunderbolt 5 compatible enclosure, theoretically, that's something you could start using with your Thunderbolt 4 device today. And then as you upgrade, you could continue to use. And so you could get multiple GPU upgrades out of it, making the cost a lot more palatable. I personally, you know, bias alert, bias alert.

Starting point is 02:51:57 I love eGPU. I think it's just, I think it's hyper cool to be able to have a thin and light device I can carry around with me and then just dock and suddenly be on a gaming powerhouse i just think it's the coolest stuff ever um anyway i i i would love i would love for my my bro jason here to be right uh where thunderbolt 4 supplied up to 100 watts of charging power thunderbolt 5 will do up to 240 watts and that's all i have to say about that i am excited and then i have a surprise topic here called twitter x monetization we got paid i know enough people have memed on twitter monetization at this point i was actually like waiting for us to do this to talk about monetization no i i didn't realize you guys had turned that on yeah Yeah. And I was like, why don't we do this?

Starting point is 02:52:46 Because our total payout, which I believe is for a month, was $76.30. Wow, that's really low compared to other ones that I've seen. I wonder why. CPMs, stuff like that. Yeah. Also, just, you know, what? I don't know, likes on Twitter or whatever. I don't know how it works.

Starting point is 02:53:03 I don't really care. I was looking at it being like, hey, there's free money. Yeah, I'll take my $76. We'll have the free money. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Cool.

Starting point is 02:53:14 Sweet. Sounds good. Next topic. Yeah, I think we've got one more, and then it's time to, yeah, the Surface Duo has reached its end. Microsoft's dual- screen Android device. Microsoft's original Surface Duo foldable phone reached the end of its three-year update life

Starting point is 02:53:31 as of September 10th. However, the $1,400 device never ran an up-to-date version of Android, having only received two extremely late OS updates during its lifespan. It got shipped with Android 10, a year-old OS, after Android 11 had already launched

Starting point is 02:53:46 and got its update to Android 11 16 months later, after Android 12 L had already launched. It received 12 L only after Android 13 launched, giving it a worst-in-class update schedule. That's a yikes. The Surface Duo was praised for its design, but criticized for its software quality, underpowered hardware, and extreme bugginess.

Starting point is 02:54:13 Android wasn't able to fully use its Ultrawide 4x3 displays, and there was no split keyboard, really, making typing difficult. Microsoft dropped the price of the Surface Duo by $200 a month after launch and eventually dropped it to $409 to $1,000 less than the original MSRP. $409.

Starting point is 02:54:34 That is a thousand... Oh, I see. Yeah, that's $1,000 less than the original MSRP. Wow. The device was originally intended to run a version of Windows and Android OS development was outsourced until Microsoft brought out the outsourcing company bought out bought out the outsourcing company two months prior to launch okay wow what a disaster who could have ever seen

Starting point is 02:54:57 it coming uh everyone that's seen microsoft make portable devices? My discussion question here, I'm just going to come up with my own one. Sorry, Jessica. My discussion question here is... Portable devices isn't fair. I was trying to reference the Zune. Sorry. Keep going.

Starting point is 02:55:13 Is, does this kind of thing just kill innovation? I actually really like the Zune. Uh, kind of. Zune HD. Because we've talked on the show before about how your best bet if you want proper support is to just buy the popular one because we've seen time and time again that companies can afford to peeve off a handful of super fans no matter how super they are and no matter how

Starting point is 02:55:39 fanatical they are but they can't afford to peeve off the bulk of their user base yeah so if you always just go you know whatever the you know chipset name strix e you know from asus or you know whatever the whatever the the best-selling iphone you know don't get the mini you know nobody buys the mini so don't get the mini just get whatever the mainstream one that everyone is buying is. You are very likely to get the longest tail on your software support and have a better overall experience, even if that other product advertised features that you personally think would be very beneficial to you. I will say the better off in this conversation is a little bit fluid.

Starting point is 02:56:22 In terms of software support. In terms of them caring in terms of of of them caring about the experience of their customers because there is strength in numbers yeah and so i worry you might enjoy something that doesn't have as much software support it might be a better purchasing decision for you but yeah i worry that with devices like this though where there's an expectation of ongoing support which is i mean basically anything we buy now, it's all connected, it's all smart. I worry that companies are going to look

Starting point is 02:56:49 at a new product category and go, holy shit, if we don't want to look like complete bad guys here, we are going to have to employ a full-time software team to sit and build updates for this thing, whether we sell a million or whether we sell 10 of these. If you know what forget it

Starting point is 02:57:09 yeah yeah it's an issue time for one show after dark i think so he's going don't worry he's got this why don't we pick a couple we'll be waiting for dan what um a couple while we wait for dan what um oh interesting uh christian asks love the content luke how hard was it to set up the desk pad configurator on ltd store oh uh that was a conrad task and i think he's he's probably watching so he could say uh but i don't think it was too bad of a task spoken like a true boss it was what i just i don't think it was too hard no like i i think it was honestly mostly a passion project um i think conrad had a lot of fun making it it's a cool tool um it's not necessarily something that you would like expect to see on a store so it's fun that we have it um i don't see people talk about it like a ton i wish more people used it but i think because it's not something

Starting point is 02:58:12 that people expect to be there um they don't click on it all that much yeah i see conrad saying it took two weeks like this wasn't like a super huge commit or anything um But it's one of the cooler things on the store, in my opinion. I think it's awesome. You can add monitors. So you could like, if you measured your desk, you could put the height and width of your desk into the configurator and genuinely see

Starting point is 02:58:38 how this mouse pad is going to look on your desk. And you could even put on a keyboard and mouse and your monitors and everything to kind of like see how it would all lay out and i think that's awesome i think that's super cool um yeah so when i full plain chat i've used it pretty useful i think it's sweet if i was buying a mouse pad i would 100 use that and that's one of the reasons why i was like stoked about him making it is because i was like dude this would massively improve my shopping experience if i was buying one of these so like sweet um yeah super cool yeah shall we get into it yeah hit me all right hey guys what's your take on the potential requirement for user replaceable

Starting point is 02:59:18 phone batteries do you believe they're intentionally hard to replace or is it due to the nature of modern design i think it's a little bit of column A and a little bit of column B. I think that there is a demand for thinner devices, but I also think that companies tend to get kind of tunnel vision on what consumers want and make compromises that are stupid and that consumers wouldn't have actually asked for in pursuit of a perceived goal. And then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy because when everyone just starts making it one way, all the sales are suddenly devices that are made that way.

Starting point is 02:59:51 So you can end up with this industry momentum that we've seen play out multiple times in the mobile phone industry. Remember when phones only got smaller? And then remember when they only got bigger? And then remember when they only got thinner? then remember when they only got thinner and now we don't have replaceable batteries like survivorship bias yes yeah exactly so i find survivorship survivorship bias to be fascinating and one of the things that i talk about a lot on the show is that anytime apple does something i just that's really stupid or really negative i

Starting point is 03:00:23 just i get enraged because I know that now all of a sudden everyone's going to look at whatever it is that Apple's doing and go oh well the iPhone sells however many umpteen millions of units therefore that decision was right but that's not necessarily the case people could be buying iPhones for any number of other reasons here's another annoying point that i'm going to bring up uh some people will prefer the bad if it's what they're used to yeah yeah not even some people a huge portion of people that's that's just that other bias that's just familiarity bias yeah is that is that what that one's called i don't know but it sounds right but that's like totally a thing. You can make something that's way better,

Starting point is 03:01:07 but people will be like, this feels unfamiliar. Okay, it's not quite familiarity bias. That's a cognitive bias in which people tend to rely on information that is already familiar to them when making decisions. So that's not familiarity bias. It's got to be something else. I'm sure there's a kind of bias that that is. It sounds closely related, but not necessarily.

Starting point is 03:01:23 Yeah, that's not quite right. More? Yeah. Moa. more two linus and luke just wanted to confess i have ripped copies of your content only half joking but have you guys considered physical copies of your content for markets like cuba that have zero access to internet no um i don't what am i gonna like why why am i trying to monetize this i just assume that if people want to watch our content in cuba they're just downloading it and then sending it over there on sneaker net yeah which is awesome do it up yeah if you otherwise don't have access to it i'd rather people are watching and i'm not making money than that they're not watching like obviously if you're watching that way uh what's up yeah i've always found how you doing i've always found that to be fascinating it's super

Starting point is 03:02:09 super cool i watched a little mini doc on it years ago um and it's just really cool and i think the the people that run that um that's sweet oh god people are talking about physical copies of the christmas album no only two of those exist. Limited edition pressing? Hey DLL, I've worked in K-12 education for several years and wonder what you guys think about young kids using devices so much during the school day. Is this a positive or negative development? Honestly, I think it's one of those things that we have absolutely no way of knowing until these kids have all grown up and moved into the world and can make a decision for themselves. Why are we trying to decide if this was a positive or negative development for them when ultimately they're going to look around at themselves and at their peers and go, okay, you know, I regretted this and I wish we'd done it this way differently.

Starting point is 03:03:04 And then hopefully they apply those learnings to the next generation and we continue to improve. I don't know why I'm even saying all this because I have absolutely no faith that that's how it'll play out. But hey, you can't blame me for being optimistic. There was a video someone sent me that was posted on Reddit

Starting point is 03:03:18 that was of some talk show or something somewhere. And there was a teacher on the talk show and they were asking the teacher um about plagiarism detectors for stuff like chat gpt yeah um and her take on it was like amazing it was like perfect in my opinion which is basically using stuff like plagiarism detectors is a very is an extremely short-sighted and also bad um way to like solve this problem because people are going to do it anyways and your plagiarism detector is not going to be 100 successful you're going to catch the people that you know leave i am a large language model in the middle of their essay which if you just read it yourself you could catch anyways yeah um and what what she thinks classes should do is like get them to go home

Starting point is 03:04:09 and prompt engineer up an essay and then get them to bring it into class and then pull like a bait and switch on them and be like okay now you need to debate against that essay or you need to like grade it and hand into me what you think should be changed or something like that like get them to work on improving it get them to work on workshopping it in different ways all this type of stuff and i i just heard that and i was like yeah this is i'm i'm happy that there are teachers out there flip the script that like are right on with how this should work uh because i completely agree and she brought up comparisons to like, it's, it's like when the calculator,

Starting point is 03:04:49 she said that school should get harder because of it. And her point was because when the calculator came in, math classes got more advanced. She's like, the same thing should happen. I was like, yeah, totally. Can I just say that schools need to go back to teaching typing?

Starting point is 03:05:01 Yeah. It is remarkable. I've actually started to notice a pattern here where the millennials in this company just sort of generally have much better typing skills than the gen z's and it was super unintuitive to me at first and then one of the zoomers was like yeah they didn't like teach us home row and I was like the

Starting point is 03:05:31 fuck that's actually weird that's surprising to me that to me like okay fine I suspect also a lot of the typing for them is done on their phone like drop cursive sure oh yeah all right fine do they still teach cursive no not even even actually well no at my kid's school they do wow but not all that not it's not in the public curriculum here um but like

Starting point is 03:05:52 you you you need to know how to type still and not just know how to type you need to know how to type, you need to know how to type fast. Like there, there's, there are, there are so many parts of my job that I would be simply unable to do if I wasn't able to type at near transcription speed, whether it's just note-taking in a meeting or, or getting my thoughts onto, onto something as fast as they're, as they're happening. Like I, it. Like, it's necessary to function. I don't... I've been talking about this far too much lately, but you want to know something that's very funny with my dyslexic stuff?

Starting point is 03:06:33 Yeah. I can type significantly faster than I can read. I believe that. I'm intimidated by you guys in that office. Why? You type so fast. All the time. Because he's with like Jaden and me.

Starting point is 03:06:47 You got programmers and writers there. And I'm like, I'm using the arrow keys because I'm just working in Excel. So it's just like click, click. And then maybe I'll type a sentence or two. You can tab if you're just trying to move to the right. How fast are you? You've got to be pretty fast.

Starting point is 03:07:02 He's got to be near 100. Because I can't read properly it's really hard to gauge because a lot of them you have to read so where i'll get stuck is i'll type in the wrong word i won't even necessarily typo the word it'll just be the wrong word but i've i've gotten one of those tests where i just read the thing a bunch of times and then tried to recite it from memory and I was at like 110 or something. Okay, yeah. I've never been like amazing, but I've always been like well better than average.

Starting point is 03:07:32 I'm kind of freaky deaky. Sometimes I'll fly too. I don't know where that comes from. I can, okay, maybe it's the same as me. I'll give you my theory. Because I can type in bursts incredibly incredibly quickly but if i try to like marathon it i almost kind of like lose my spot like so when i when i do a typing test i tend to start making a whole bunch of mistakes and i think it's from i aming

Starting point is 03:07:58 the vast majority of the typing i've done in my life probably still is like, totally. Oh, that makes so much sense. Reply to message, reply, reply, reply, enter. Ha ha. Well, but like it's, I think there's also, I type, I think there's also something to it with typing styles. Like if you go to do a typing test it's often like oh you're gonna do this passage from this book or something sure and it's in a totally different style that you're not used to whatever else um and you might be able to flow state into your specific style significantly better um so I don't know how reflective it it really is of like how your actual real, real world

Starting point is 03:08:45 performance is over the course of a day. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I don't know. I've always thought I'm like quick, not necessarily super fast. Yeah. Cause I know there's people out there that would just stomp on me. People are calling for a Linus versus Luke type off. That's no, we're not doing that.

Starting point is 03:09:03 Um, that's yeah. That's, yeah. I mean, okay. A, Luke is very open about his dyslexia, which is... That would actually be, like, super annoying. Yeah. I really don't want to do that. I would crush him, but only because he, like, has an actual learning disability. That's not cool.

Starting point is 03:09:24 I've always hated typing tests because of this reason because I'll be like quick and like doing good and then people be like oh how fast you do a typing test I'm like that's not that's actually not funny you guys even though I'm laughing yeah it's funny between us we're fine like yeah but it's that's not we're not proving anything yeah it's it's like my car's out of gas, and Luke's like, let's drag race. Get owned, nerd. And then I'm like, ha ha! My car's electric!

Starting point is 03:09:52 You got there ahead of me. Oh, what was I going to say? Also, right, number two is these are not familiar keyboards for either of us. Yeah, but we've also talked in the past about how as much as i like my full-size mechanic keyboard all they can well thank you this but whatever mechanical keyboard big boys i was gonna ask what a mechanic keyboard is does it have a wrench built in i wouldn't be surprised if one of those existed um but yeah the flat keys were both pretty fast i remember this conversation a long time ago i I did a video recently just using like random keyboards off of AliExpress or Wish or something like that.

Starting point is 03:10:31 And one of the ones, I was at like over 100 words per minute, I think, on some absolute piece of garbage. Because it was just a really low profile key switch. And I managed to enter flow state. And I'm like okay guys this this is not a good keyboard don't read it too much into this yeah okay some more yeah hi guy we're all friends here for guy we're all here for luke linus with arm going public success of apple silicon and the announcement of assassin's creed on iphone what's your best guess timeline for serious risk adoption for gaming i mean it's already happening yeah any any mobile game mobile gaming is huge i mean isn't the mobile gaming industry by revenue

Starting point is 03:11:21 like bigger than console gaming i can't remember it's i wouldn't be surprised i don't know if it's bigger or smaller but it's they're on they're in the same conversation that i know for sure risk gaming is a thing it's just whether or not you consider mobile gaming to be real gaming or not but it's it's definitely a thing i didn't know this resident evil 4 remake and assassin's creed mirage which is the new one coming out are coming to iphone the resident evil 4 remake footage from the apple event looks incredible this is huge yeah how have i not heard of this because you didn't watch our video i didn't watch the apple event at all because i'm not gonna buy it well you should watch our video at least we focused on usbc and gaming you're not gonna buy anything the stuff stuff that actually I should have watched it. This man right here. This man gets it. I learned. I learned.

Starting point is 03:12:12 So Luke, you excited about the no? Or ultimately, Luke, are you excited about the yeah? Are you gonna buy it? No. Yeah, I like the concept of it. I like that somebody else will buy and enjoy it hey that's a that's a thing I feel from time to time he's got the compersion over here yeah but no that's super cool I don't know I'm happy here but I guess everyone else already knows but I'm happy to hear about that yeah it's very cool that's actually like massive because phone gaming blows all the games like suck so if phones are going to get

Starting point is 03:12:47 desktop quality games also a massive market awesome like an insane yeah don't you guys have phones it's just true phones it's just true so like a lot of people don't have consoles or gaming computers um so i don't know getting getting more games to more people sounds cool. Why not? Yeah. Sweet. Yeah. Anyways, next one. Okay. Sure. Uh, hey, LLD, I wanted L and L's opinion on Asus charging me 705 US dollars to replace

Starting point is 03:13:19 an LCD in the XG49 VQ, an $800 gaming monitor. in the XG49VQ, an $800 gaming monitor. I expected to pay if it fell, but not 88% the cost of the new product. Okay, so here's the thing. On the one hand, that blows. On the other hand, this product is the panel. Yeah, I thought you were talking about laptop at first. on the other hand, this product is the panel. Yeah.

Starting point is 03:13:45 I thought you were talking about laptop at first. Yeah, that's really tough. And Asus rightfully doesn't have a pristine reputation when it comes to repair and servicing. But with that said, oh man, the amount of labor involved in unmanufacturing the panelness But with that said, ah, man. The amount of labor involved in unmanufacturing the panelness and then putting it back together on this curved display

Starting point is 03:14:13 is probably not that dissimilar to the labor of assembling the whole thing in the first place. And the actual guts of this monitor are pretty minimal compared to the panel in terms of cost you paid for a new monitor because you basically bought a new monitor is kind of my my take on it that that really sucks and i feel really bad for your situation i'm sorry yeah that blows yeah but also like what he said sorry good day from down under i recently e-cycled a first gen plasma that was perfectly working but made no sense using linus we, we know you love Pebble. What is the point you decide to move tech on?

Starting point is 03:15:09 Okay, I actually flagged this not because I could think of any answer to that question, but to say, really? You e-cycled a first-gen plasma that was perfectly worth... Do you have any idea how much those things are worth? I ran one for years, and it had a chopstick sticking out of the front of it because the fix was to distend the panel by a sixteenth of an inch. Okay well Dan's a unique case but... They last forever. But dang it! Right okay so when do I just when do I move on?

Starting point is 03:15:42 You know I kind of move on naturally. I kind of move on when I, when I just don't like use it anymore. If I haven't used something in a long time, I'm, I moved on. Um, I mean, part of that is that it's like my job to try new stuff all the time. Um, fair enough. But I mean, I somewhat feel the same. Yeah. Yeah. I like, I, I'm ready to move on from my note nine. For example. I have a video coming. This is going to be, I think, a really fun video. I flipped the script. We actually created a giant Uno reverse card prop for the video. And I'm going to lay out my requirements, and then I'm going to have the audience pick me a phone.

Starting point is 03:16:22 No matter what it is, I'm going to use it. No matter what it is I'm gonna use it no matter what it is cool and for a period of time and there are a few requirements you guys have to watch the video to get all the details but I think it's gonna be I think it's gonna be pretty cool and hopefully where is my phone oh right I checked it over there hopefully I end up with something a little bit faster than the note 9 at this point. It's slow. It's usable. Like I am dailying it right now, ever since my fold got dropped in the pool,

Starting point is 03:16:50 but I am, it's slow. What made you decide to do the first and second What Is It Like To Work For Linus videos? Are there any stories behind them? And thanks to Joseph Dry for helping me subscribe to Flowplane. The first one was just an idea that I had as an extension of the Honest Answers series, which includes other gems like how do we make money?

Starting point is 03:17:16 And the goal was simply transparency. I told the staff internally at the time that I wouldn't watch them. And true to my word, I have not watched either of them up until this time. If I ever retired or something like that, I would consider it fair game to watch them. But as long as I'm working here, I'm not going to watch them. And I wanted people to have a real look into, you know, the inner workings of our company. And I think that the people who have worked on these projects have taken the assignment very seriously and to the greatest degree that they're able to provided a real window into our company. In some ways, I think that transparency has hurt us. I've seen, I have seen parts of those videos pulled out, oftentimes without their full context and used as an attack against us. as an attack against us. But my answer to that would be that you guys are seeing a very incomplete picture

Starting point is 03:18:07 if you're using that to attack us. And the very fact that we are willing to say those things about ourselves in public, I think, speaks to our transparency. I think that you can criticize a lot about us, but to turn around our commitment to being open and make a weapon out of that can only have one effect. And I'll give you three guesses as to what it is. And the first two don't count. What do you think it is? What do you think happens when you take our ability to

Starting point is 03:18:43 look at ourselves honestly and talk about it to you and you turn it into a weapon? We're just going to not do that anymore. It's the Blizzard developer point that I've made a billion times on my show. So, yeah. It is what it is. I can tell you right now, you will never see another video in that series. It's not going to happen. Why would we do that?

Starting point is 03:19:08 Yeah. Let's just not. Up next. Yep. Given how much the algorithm rewards channels that upload frequently, what's the conversion like about getting back to daily uploads? Conversation, but yes. Oh, sorry. Yep, that's okay.

Starting point is 03:19:29 Right now, there is no conversation about that. Right now, the conversation is, you know, how do we get back to basics? How do we delight the audience? And at some point, you know, obviously, as a media production company, yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna try and, you know, we're gonna try and grow and grow means, you know, take these systems that we're working on that, that are going to help us make better content and make more of it. But right now, um, that's just, that's not in our vocabulary at the moment. When we, when we we when we produce a lot of videos we're we're really happy and when we don't we um we we look at okay what were the challenges what what were the obstacles that we had to overcome here and we we try and figure out how to solve them and we we try and take that with

Starting point is 03:20:15 us moving forward is the swacket ever coming back i absolutely loved it and don't want to buy one off eBay. Probably never. Sorry. I should be writing these down. I mean, okay, never is a strong word. Probably, probably not. It sold really well at the beginning, but you may or may not have noticed that we kind of did a clearance deal on it. So you can put two and two together, probably. deal on it so you can put two and two together probably as an individual viewer which generates the most revenue a basic youtube subscriber a premium youtube subscriber or a floatplane subscriber by far a floatplane subscriber because um they are they are it's it's kind of like being subscribed to a patreon right like a regular YouTube subscriber is going to be ad supported, which is a tiny fraction of the CPMs of a paid supported viewer who contributes a proportion of their YouTube

Starting point is 03:21:16 premium revenue, which is going to be a tiny, well, maybe not a tiny fraction, but a fraction of what someone who is directly paying you for the content is going to contribute to the bottom line. Our float plane peeps are hugely important to us and I can't thank them enough. I can never thank them enough. Even the $3 ones are probably still better for us than a heavy watcher on YouTube premium. borderline actually no maybe not no maybe not a really heavy YouTube premium watcher would be more than like an OG tier float plane watcher just because premium costs so much but you'd have to be a really heavy watcher and also watch very little of anything else yes yeah that's true because it's proportional based on watch time

Starting point is 03:22:02 so you'd have to fall asleep to like buy how to build a pc the last guide you'll ever need like over and over and also never watch any other creators yeah so i don't know hey i'll float plane chat thanks guys yeah bread planes let's go linus in an old video you said you did not want to hire Riley. Why did you decide to hire him eventually? Would there be any impact to LMG if you did not hire him? For example, no tech linked. Oh, I was trying to poach Riley from day zero. Yeah, so I created this one because I was like, what? Oh, no, heck no.

Starting point is 03:22:39 Yeah. The only reason Riley didn't get poached was because I signed a no poaching clause. Yeah. So I knew that bit, but I didn't think there was anything else outside of that. Oh, yeah. I would have taken Riley day zero. He's great. Yeah.

Starting point is 03:22:51 I love Riley. Yeah. Good evening, LLD. Creative question. If you could have an experimental channel with content that doesn't do well on the main, what would content you would like to see oh i would love to do like hardcore troubleshooting oh yeah that'd be great just like this okay my computer right now dan have i shown you this yet no give me some dopamine come on on

Starting point is 03:23:18 my computer my like my workstation you cannot set Windows Hello. It prompts you for a pin, you enter a pin, and the window just goes away. You try to set up camera ID or facial recognition, and you go through the whole wizard, and then it just... This is a desktop? Goes away. Yeah, it's my desktop. It has a Logitech camera. It supports it. You've worked before.

Starting point is 03:23:42 But I have to type my password every time i log into my computer it's ridiculous i have tried taking off and re-adding my microsoft account no change i don't get it and it's one of those things where any problem that takes less than five seconds to solve once you are never going to invest the five minutes that it takes to solve it once and for all. And so every time I sit down at my computer, I just type in my password. I'm like, I'll deal with this at some point. And then I just don't. I would love for that to be a whole channel, because with the hundred plus people that we have here, we encounter like that pretty much

Starting point is 03:24:21 on the daily. Oh, I like working here because you know doing tech support people don't bring me like hey my computer doesn't work and it's turned off i only get asked when the problems are entertaining and weird and i've never seen them before and all of the tech people here have never seen them before it's great uh yeah yeah what was i dealing with the other day? A Wi-Fi PCI card blew up in a laptop. Wi-Fi doesn't work. Jake Danes is saying open up services.msc and enable biometric service. I can check, but I mean, I Googled a handful of things and tried things and they didn't work. So I just like left it because it takes five seconds to enter my password.

Starting point is 03:25:04 So yes, yes, but also I'll it because it takes five seconds to enter my password. Yes, yes, but also I'll get to it. Yes, but also no. Up next, hey DLL, a question for Linus. Will you be upgrading your Framework 13 to a Ryzen board when they come out? I've had my eye on the 16-inch model, but I'm waiting for the reviews first. Yeah, being able to game would be awesome.

Starting point is 03:25:24 And the Intel one, you could play games or whatever, but the Ryzen one, it's going to be like, like you could actually play games on it. That's awesome. And then I don't even need the eGPU. Like that's one advantage to the Intel one, is you can plug into a Thunderbolt dock. But man, I don't need to play hardcore games on my laptop.

Starting point is 03:25:48 Yeah, I'm super excited linus what do you think about the aeoneo kun kun can't wait to try my new screwdriver aeoneo i saw this thing i remember not being particularly excited about it yeah right so it's got a gigantic screen on it uh touchpads which is kind of nice for windows navigation i've been a little unimpressed with the ongoing development of their software and as much as i give asus a hard time um i have mostly found their overlay unobtrusive so i i'm i'm pretty i'm pretty happy with the ally right now the bigger screen is kind of cool but i'm also finding the devices with the screen sizes that they have like the steam deck and the and the um and the ally i'm finding them heavy enough as it is i'm not sure that i need them to be bigger and heavier so i'm i'm tepid i'm tepid on it maybe

Starting point is 03:26:46 i'll check it out on short circuit and it'll blow my mind but for now i'm pretty tepid why did you drop the amazon store also can we get a white stealth water bottle why did i drop the amazon store i don't think i dropped the amazon store who curated this yeah Yeah, probably me. I just assume people are true, but we've had multiple people today, and you're just like no. It's just lies. Oh, oh, I suspect what they mean by dropped is like released. Because we launched it a few weeks back, right? Sure, yeah, people talk in real words. Yeah, I bet you that's what they mean. Well, yeah. People talk in real words. Yeah. I bet you that's what they mean. Well, oh.

Starting point is 03:27:32 Okay. Yeah. We have it. I bet you what they mean is what made you release it, what made you start it. Oh, oh, well, people ask this too. Like, we've had so many requests. Look at what percentage of the posts about the store complain about shipping. Like, okay, fine.

Starting point is 03:27:48 Then just buy it on Amazon. If you want subsidized shipping, then buy it on Amazon. It's slightly more expensive and you have free shipping. By the way, this is not right. It's because I'm on the U.S. store. If you were on Amazon U.S., it would be free shipping with Prime. Looks like it's selling, though. So that's cool.

Starting point is 03:28:08 How's the reviews? I read Amazon reviews for fun sometimes. The ABCs of gaming reviews are all so wholesome. Where the hell are the reviews? Looks cheaper than it is, but is actually good. Hey, thanks, Petco. Worth the wait. Hey, thanks, Petco. Worth the wait. Hey, thanks.

Starting point is 03:28:26 What is the one-star review? Let's see what the haters have to say. All right, sure, fine. Let's see what the haters have to say. Very poor hammer. I didn't have any screws about, so I tried driving a nail with it. Yeah, don't do that.

Starting point is 03:28:42 Not made in Canada. Your driver is proudly designed, assembled, inspected, and packed by the Megapro family here in Canada and the USA. Okay, that's not entirely correct, actually, but it is assembled. In other words, made in China with a made-in-USA price tag junk. You're a very, very mistaken online shopper. You should probably practice online shopping more.

Starting point is 03:29:04 We've been very transparent about the production of the of the screwdriver it was designed and is manufactured in collaboration with mega pro along with ph molds which is located in either maple ridge or pit meadows just across the river from here the tooling was done by innovation tool and die which is in richmond british col Columbia. So that's also here in Canada. The ratchets and the shafts are built and turned in China. And then we send them plastics that they assemble into like a ratchet selector ring assembly. They ship that back to us where the plastics are shot and final assembly and QC is done here in Canada. So it's a global product

Starting point is 03:29:48 that's how it works um but it is largely designed and even yes manufactured and assembled in canada we haven't applied for any kind of like made in canada like sticker or anything like that i last time we looked into it it was looked time consuming and complicated so we didn't really bother with that so i find it's easier rather than simplify everything down to a little badge or a logo to just explain the whole explain the whole story hey lld did you guys hear about the large deposit of lithium they found a few days ago will we see lithium related products getting more affordable in the near future uh for example evs getting cheaper unlikely i mean you're going to see that happening to be honest yeah you're you're it's going to be

Starting point is 03:30:37 rare metals and it's going to take ages to get the extraction up to speed uh there's going to be a whole regulatory whatever there's going to be a whole regulatory whatever. There's going to be a gigantic investment into it. They're going to expect something back for their investment. I mean, at the end of the day, it's a commodity product, right? So the pricing is going to be dictated by supply and demand, like you say, but it's in the interest of every supplier to balance the supply and demand so that the pricing doesn't crash because otherwise you get the DRAM industry right now. Have you seen how freaking cheap RAM is? It's weird because we had like years of RAM being absurdly expensive.

Starting point is 03:31:12 Wasn't there a flood? Multiple floods? Long time ago. Yeah, and I'm pretty sure. Big knock-on effect for a long time, maybe. We were working on a video today that is the final rollout of the LAN center. So we were building five machines and um you know

Starting point is 03:31:27 it's when you're building five machines yeah and at my house for my kids um it's actually sweet yeah it's actually pretty cool i would have given anything for that when i was a kid yeah that's like so many of the things i do is just like stuff i would have liked when i was a kid anyway it doesn't matter the point is we were working on them and, um, it's not as simple when you're just like building five machines for personal use as just, you know, calling up companies being like, Hey, can you send stuff? So where, you know, we bought, uh, we bought processors, bought GPUs. Um, so I was looking at a lot of the pricing for this stuff. And, uh, and uh the the kits of ram that we used are 32 gig 6000 cl30 from g skill okay and if i had to guess what pricing for something like that would be i you know my my out of date brain obviously

Starting point is 03:32:15 i've looked at it more recently than this but if i didn't look at it that often i could easily believe that something like that is like 250 300 bucks nope nope that'll be under 100 us dollars this is the kit i believe for 32 gigs for 32 gigs of 6 000 like what cl30 this is not crap ram this is like good stuff my ddr4 was like 500 bucks i know know, right? The DR4 was brutal. Ugh. Yeah. Even some of the 3-era was pretty bad, wasn't it? Yeah. Yes, it was.

Starting point is 03:32:51 Right at the beginning. Remember the OCZ SLI certified? Oh my God. I had so many sticks of that dye. You've talked about that before. That stuff was crap. Oh my God. Yeah.

Starting point is 03:33:02 Okay. Last one of my curated, if you want. Let's see. Glad I got to caught it live. I usually listen to it as a podcast. Linus, with your new role as CVO, did that idea come organically or was that borrowed from Simon Sinek's leadership books?

Starting point is 03:33:18 I have never heard of Simon Sinek and I had never heard of chief vision officer being a real thing. I just thought it sounded kind of funny and seemed to encompass what my job is supposed to be, because we had some concern expressed internally that all of a sudden our marching orders were going to come from, you know, someone corporate, you know, because that's part of how we sold Taron internally was that he was going to bring more structure at a time when obviously we needed it. Right. And so I kind of went, OK, well, hold on a second. We need a role that makes it clear that we're still gonna make these moonshot investments. We're still gonna just do things based on our gut

Starting point is 03:34:01 because it's what we think is right. And so that's where vision officer came from. I had a vision and that was the title and, you know, whatever. We meme about it a lot internally. And seriously, everyone from. I do it all the time. I call him eyeball officer. During, during executive, during like, like all exec,

Starting point is 03:34:23 like all management meetings, people are constantly memeing on it. Taron himself rips you for that in the executive meetings all the time. Sorry, I find that very funny personally. And I've also got people who have been on staff for like less than six months just like poking fun at me about it. for like less than six months, just like poking fun at me about it. My point is that everyone from the most senior to the most junior is having a go at me for chief vision officer.

Starting point is 03:34:51 But the reality of it is, I think it's a pretty good, I think it's a pretty good descriptor of what the heck it is exactly that I'm supposed to be doing. So we're sticking with it. It's also really funny. Yeah. With the framework 16 coming out soon are you considering

Starting point is 03:35:07 getting a bulk order and using them for office or personal use i have the framework 13 but i'm loving the idea of the 16 i'm almost certainly going to stick with the 13 i just don't think i'm going back to anything other than a thin and light once i made the move i was done i was hooked um i carry around my laptop a lot and carrying around a bigger laptop than what i'm going to need 99 of the time with more performance than i need 99 of the time it's just i don't need that for my back it would work if it had a handle i mean my backpack has a handle no he's he has a tough book that has a handle on it my laptop has a handle well thank you dan that's really helpful how'd you end up with that, Dan?

Starting point is 03:35:46 It got hit with a shovel. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. It did. Uh-huh. That's not how you ended up with it, but sure. Did he just take it? What do you mean?

Starting point is 03:35:56 Is it kind of like what he did with the stupid Odyssey Arc, where he just took it? That's exactly what happened. No, this is my work laptop. Adam has the Odyssey Arc. Don, you're out. Yeah, you had it for a bit. You only relinquished it because Adam needed it for a video. Don't think I don't know this story. I get my stuff and if people are like, hey, we need this back, they can have it back immediately. Not a problem. I come into knowing that.

Starting point is 03:36:18 It's like you crotch some cheese at the grocery store and you're just like, yeah, I mean as soon as they come and tell me they need it, I give it back. Yeah, if the security guard wants it back you're gonna have my crotch anywho what were we talking about just now what was the question uh you're gonna get the 16 are you okay with the 13 oh yeah right so i i wanted to make it really clear to people internally that i don't want my position as an investor in framework to affect our purchasing decisions as linus media group the company because linus media my position as an investor in Framework to affect our purchasing decisions as Linus Media Group, the company, because Linus Media Group's not an investor, right?

Starting point is 03:36:49 So while, yes, the primary investor of Linus Media Group is me, who's also an investor in blah, blah, the point is that I don't want to step on people's ability to do their jobs. So I raised it as a possibility to, I think Colton was working on our standardized products, but I think that's in your lap your, in your lap right now.

Starting point is 03:37:05 It's like a mixed. Yeah. So I, I have said, Hey, I would personally appreciate if you guys at least looked at it because frameworks, a small company,

Starting point is 03:37:14 they might not normally end up on, uh, on the radar of someone who's making a purchasing decision, but, and I made this very clear and I think Luke can vouch for me here. I said, if it's not the best, if it's not the best option, don't buy it. I don't think we're fully decided on laptops yet.

Starting point is 03:37:32 I don't know how much of this I should even necessarily say, but I don't think we're fully decided on laptops yet. I proposed Dell XPSs because we've had very good success with them being reliable in the past. And what we mostly need are like reliable business laptops. We have some use cases for like editors on the road and stuff where we need laptops that have like really good GPU power. But yeah, I've always found very high reliability in XPSs. And then we looked into the pricing and it's really not that much different from a framework anyways um so i don't know that's still up in the air a

Starting point is 03:38:11 little bit xps's you can get with touchscreens though and it's like uh i i had a i had an interaction with someone recently where uh for was it yvonne might have been yvonne it was someone um was using a mac and doesn't often use a Mac and they just like went to scroll a page and were like how does this not have a touch screen what year is it like I don't know ask Tim Apple I do that all the time I'm really not a laptop person so I've been trying to like get other people's input on the laptop side of things yeah it was just it was really funny to me because it's one of those things where I hear the arguments against touchscreen in a laptop, and I get it. You don't want fingerprints all over your screen.

Starting point is 03:38:49 Oh, the touchpad is great. And it's like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, yeah, sure, fine. But on those occasions when you're just like, it's there. It's an option. It's really nice to have. Obviously, I don't daily drive one with a touchscreen right now because I'm daily driving a framework.

Starting point is 03:39:06 And yeah, I miss it sometimes. My laptop has touchscreen and it always just like surprises me. Okay. Because I won't, but someone else will poke my screen and then it will scroll and I'll go like, oh yeah, it has that. And then I'll never use it again because I don't really like it. But I don't know. It doesn't matter.

Starting point is 03:39:24 Other people might and that's okay Hey LDL. Are you still considering making a video about VTubers and or 3d tracking tech? Yes We still want to do that collab. No, I haven't moved it forward and I'm sorry And I'm sorry, but I think that's the end of the WAN show we'll see you again next week same bad time same bad channel Bye I'm sorry, but I think that's the end of the WAN show. We'll see you again next week. Same bad time, same bad channel. Bye!

The WAN Show - Unity? More Like Divorce - WAN Show September 15, 2023

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.