The WAN Show - Windows Subscriptions - WAN Show October 6, 2023

Starting point is 00:00:00 What is up everyone and welcome to the WAN show. It's going to be a chill show today. Quiet show. Yeah. You know, a well, well-bred sort of show. What does that mean? I don't know. We've got a lot of great topics for you guys today. We're going to be talking about Windows as a subscription. It actually

Starting point is 00:00:24 makes a ton of sense and that will be explaining a little bit later also how is it even possible that the lg wing is the front runner for the phone that i have to switch to so we'll be talking a little bit about the ongoing uh community voting that is taking place for my phone what else we got going on today i know how uh epic games charges licenses for unreal engine even even changes them but yes yeah that's correct even if you don't pass that one million dollar mark in revenue for selling a game like they had in the past but maybe it's okay that's a top topic for you maybe it's okay what what else is what's gonna beat it huh well how about the 10 000 to 17 000 first gen apple watches that are now obsolete called it you bought a called it you bought a i called it so hard i was like this is stupid even apple figured out it was stupid sorry we'll talk about it later a hard time caring about that

Starting point is 00:01:22 uh and then yeah then what's, then what's your next one? You're just going to make me keep picking them? I mean, YouTube's mobile ad changes. He's figured it out. YouTube's mobile ad changes are going to have a significant impact on... Yeah, I don't know anything about that except YouTube Premium. Something, maybe. All right, let's roll the intro.

Starting point is 00:01:39 So does he. The big thing we're going to jump into first is that rumors about a windows 12 subscription were swirling this week after german site desk modder found references to a subscription edition in a canary channel windows 11 insider preview build that is absent in other windows 11 builds while outlets like neo win initially supported desk modMotors' hypothesis, though, Windows Central has argued that the subscription language isn't, in fact, referring to the client version of Windows 12, but rather a newly discovered IoT enterprise subscription edition of Windows 11. However, and this is actually my theory, the subscription language could be a reference to new features in the future version of Windows that will require a subscription, like the inevitable rollout of a consumer version of the Windows 365 Cloud PC service. Or that's not what I actually think it is.

Starting point is 00:03:00 I think it's going to be more along the lines of ai features like co-pilot requiring a subscription service in order to keep them going i think like a pro style exactly well just like you would see with something like uh stable diffusion right now where sure cortana or or bing bot or whatever i don't care what they ultimately call it. The stupid bar that you can't get to go away. Actually, you can get it to go away. But the stupid bar in the bottom of your start menu, whatever they call that thing, you could ask it a question

Starting point is 00:03:35 and you could either be put into a long queue or you could get priority service and quicker answers and more prompts allowed before you have to clear it and start over again. Professional features like that. Oh. I'm on it.

Starting point is 00:03:51 Okay, well, okay. We'll talk about that a little bit later. Luke added a thing to the bottom of it that I'm actually, you know, feeling a little validated about, but I haven't read the whole thing. I don't think you should. So maybe I shouldn't.

Starting point is 00:04:01 So we'll fight version two. So we'll... That's not what people tune in to see. They like to see us we'll fight version two so we'll that's not what people tune in to see they like to see us agree about everything i don't think that's true i don't think i think they'd love it if we just fought no yes they yes they would get in here dan start yelling i don't want to i'm sick of this wow this the show has devolved shockingly quickly this week anyway I want to talk about

Starting point is 00:04:29 Windows as a subscription I oh I'm gonna get I'm gonna get cancelled again you're okay with it? I support it okay I think it makes a ton of sense I don't disagree.

Starting point is 00:04:45 I have to leave. But only for the feature version that you're talking about. Yeah. I think if it was the base operating system, that would be BS. It wouldn't work. It'd be stupid. Everyone would be pissed off. Everyone's going to go to other platforms.

Starting point is 00:04:57 But for external server AI powered stuff. That costs a lot of money. It has made no sense to me from the start how they've had the GPT-4 level stuff publicly and freely accessible. No, it's... That's wild. It's the whole Silicon Valley,

Starting point is 00:05:18 let's burn the venture capital as fast as possible into the money-burning furnace. It's that whole model all over again we just we need all the users we need all the oh my god we're not making any money and then they have to like charge money for it at some point because the whole the whole like oh you can go on open eyes website and use chat gpg4 for 20 bucks a month or you can just use bing for free thing has been really weird to me this whole time yep so that to me would make sense yeah it makes a ton of sense and i called this literally years ago that windows essentially is

Starting point is 00:05:55 free now and it's not you know when you buy an oem pc for example microsoft is charging acer or got a bit of a thing lvo or whatever they are charging them for a license and you can absolutely still go to newegg.com and buy a Windows license and if you buy it straight from Microsoft you will even pay a lot of money for it but it has been very clear pretty much ever since they started offering free upgrades from edition to edition of windows in fact they only recently closed the windows 7 to windows 8 loophole really they announced that it was no longer a thing years ago yeah i thought it was but you could totally still do it and apparently there's still a way to work around the way that they have closed it like it's totally still a thing to just use a windows 7 key and upgrade it all the way to windows 11

Starting point is 00:06:47 man wasn't there like a windows 7 ultimate key or whatever at that tech shop that you bought out i think so nice nice um heck yeah but ever since they started doing that it's become very clear that they are going to say they care and that piracy is really bad. But what they figured out in the Vista days is that their position as the monopolistic owner of the operating system space is not as secure as I think they thought it was. And I think a big part of the reason

Starting point is 00:07:23 that the year of the Linux desktop keeps being a meme and keeps never happening is that Microsoft has gradually loosened and loosened and loosened their approach to DRM and to anti-piracy. It cannot possibly,

Starting point is 00:07:39 like, think about it. Okay, I know this is some tinfoil hat sounding, you know, that's raining frogs or whatever kind of stuff right now but if microsoft microsoft if they cared that you pirated windows oh yeah could they stop it at this point uh with the amount of phoning home they could make it way harder at the very least it is literally like okay here's here's an example one of the things that you can't do if you don't enter a license key into windows

Starting point is 00:08:10 because once you install it you can just say i don't have a product key that's actually a button you just press it and you install windows and in the old days it would pretty much cut you off after i think it was 30 days or maybe you could extend it a few times to 180 or something like that these days you just press that button and then just never enter a product key and it has a watermark in the bottom right and this is one of the sort of validations of my theory that watermark is really hard to get rid of if you if you like that's interesting if you try hard enough you can and there's like fake activation servers and like you can actually like pirate windows still but if the only drawback to having the not pirated and i didn't install some sketchy thing or download some sketchy thing and i just have this water it's like fine whatever who cares

Starting point is 00:09:03 and there are technically other drawbacks see this is this is another thing you can't change your background you can't change your desktop background if you want to do it in the modern control panel settings menu if you just find a picture and right click it it totally works so that's the that's the kind of workaround that I'm looking at going, okay, this is clearly a very half-ass effort, you guys. You're not convincing me right now that this is actually a problem because I think Microsoft's biggest priority is having the largest platform.

Starting point is 00:09:37 And I don't think they take it for granted in the same way that they did in the Windows XP days, in the Windows 98 days even. They are fighting against valid competitors, especially, I mean, look at what Apple's doing with macOS. Sure, they don't care about the Mac, which is frustrating, but on the mobile side, on the MacBook side,

Starting point is 00:10:01 they're still doing stuff. And on the gaming side those things are actually getting powerful enough to run real games on apple silicon and they are finally courting developers on the mac side having seen how much revenue there is on the ios side of things i guess or whatever it is that finally prompted them to be like oh yeah people oh computer games like when's the last time you even heard them called computer games yeah back when apple was a relevant option for it yeah yeah so i so so the way that i see this is microsoft will ultimately move to free to play and here's something really crazy i'm about to make a bold prediction that

Starting point is 00:10:47 won't get me canceled but could get me laughed at i think it will be more profitable oh yeah no i yeah i agree i think that i if they if they bundle in ad removal if they're like this is this is windows not windows pro but like windows premium Windows Premium. The exact word I was going to go for. And it no longer has ads and you gain AI features that hopefully don't completely suck, which we'll talk about in a second. But if it has ones that are actually worth anything and the ads are gone, the ads being gone alone would be worth something to me. I think they should go back to the Windows 95 branding and call it Windows Plus.

Starting point is 00:11:30 Ooh. Yeah. I kind of like that. Like Windows 12 Plus or something like that. I'd love the throwback, even if I hate giving the money every month. But I got to be honest with you, I would probably buy it. If it removes ads, I'd probably buy it. It needs to have a family plan. There's no way way i'm gonna buy a full license for every computer but microsoft

Starting point is 00:11:49 microsoft's pretty down with that they have been open to to group plans whether it's corporate msdn or whatever else or even whether it's family like microsoft office had family plans back in the day probably still does yeah it's like student family or something like that um so if i if i just had to buy you know windows premium or windows plus or whatever else it is for every you know five computers i have or whatever i yeah yeah they'd probably get me if the operating system's free and i would be spending way more on windows than i do today as it is right now i i basically buy a license every time i get every time i am finally on a machine where i like have to do enough screen capture on it that i'm like okay this actually the optics of this are really bad if we upload this to the channel i should probably just buy a license so my work computer

Starting point is 00:12:46 is done um i yeah my my home desktop is also done i i have a legit license for my home desktop and then i i entered a license onto my media pc like ages ago that um i own but i think is like not a proper one i think it's like a great market one or something like that but I like actually bought proper licenses I think it needs both personally I think it needs actually good AI features and I think it needs ad removal okay let's talk about the AI features because Luke put this into the notes related Linus was kind of right about co-pilot sucking now I did not put this into the notes oh well some someone did someone did and so i'm going to go yay and no i completely disagree okay fine hit me because my point was not about it being bad my point was about the journalistic issues with how we were addressing it which i was completely right about that was not the same build okay so i didn't show my work which is a problem for me sometimes

Starting point is 00:13:46 but i did explain last week that it was pretty clear to me that based on the overall direction of development it just doesn't matter but it does matter no because you didn't show your work what matters is that i've seen a lot of pre-builds of things. I've seen a lot. But some of them haven't. But I have. Yeah. So I've seen a lot of pre-done things. Like, it's always interesting to me when I read an article or I see a forum thread

Starting point is 00:14:17 discussing leaked benchmarks of an upcoming CPU, for example. And that CPU isn't due for launch for another three months or something like that and you'll see people speculating particularly fanboys i see this a lot you'll see them going oh yeah but it could be it could be way faster it could be a winner by the time it comes out and i'm kind of sitting here going no it won't be because it's only it's it's so far behind that you gotta understand like silicon they ain't spinning new silicon in that amount of time it is better than what we used sure but hold on let me let me finish this let me finish this this train of thought though yeah um so so

Starting point is 00:14:58 it could get a little bit better there could be driver optimizations there could be this there could be that but there's not going to be enough across the board gains unless they are completely re-architecting this thing which they aren't because if they're sampling it they aren't that's just not how it works but these are things that i feel like a lot of people don't have exposure to and don't know because like how much you can extrapolate at At a fairly fundamental level, these models still hallucinate too much. Yes. And when it hallucinates too much,

Starting point is 00:15:31 Microsoft isn't going to want it to be just willy-nilly changing features on your computer. Hallucinating your desktop background all of a sudden being a hardcore triple X content or something like that. Yeah. So like they had to be really careful about it actually doing things. So instead it instructs too much.

Starting point is 00:15:45 I also think that there's a lot of, I also think one of the things that was clear to me and that I didn't show my work for was that they had serious usability and potential liability concerns around it being able to independently control your computer and also security concerns yeah if copilot was able to actually change system settings on its own all of a sudden you don't have to compromise the system you just have to compromise copilot and you can do whatever you want it's basically like if you manage to compromise powershell essentially at that point and and these language models are very sus when it comes to compromising.

Starting point is 00:16:28 So I was right that I was still right. Nah. Except I was right. No. So based on the amount of beta software that I've seen. Just for a throwback. Actually very unhelpful. Based on the amount of beta software that i've

Starting point is 00:16:46 seen over a year over the years based on what was the obvious design constraints that they were working within the concerns that they were clearly trying to address it was pretty clear to me that it was not going to be useful in the way that i would want it to be. Because to me, Copilot is not really that useful if I have to touch my keyboard anyway. By the time I touch my keyboard, I might as well have just done the thing. Do you mean your mouse? Either. You have to touch your key. Oh, because you want a mic into it. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So, so it's, well, no, no, not, not just activating the mic. I, I just mean like if I, if I ask it to do something and it's like, my point is you're talking about without touching my keyboard. So how did you just ask it to do something? Oh, no, no. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no. I mean, I assumed it's voice activated. I just mean once I ask it something and it just goes, Hey, I found a guide where you can look up instructions for how to press start and type cmd and then run a command and i'm sitting here going well sure fine but i could have just i could fine i could have just typed in that question then and then my hands are good my hands are on my keyboard already anyway

Starting point is 00:17:55 for the most part it is bing chat that is a lot easier to get to yeah which is which is still neat not a co-pilot and i think it's a branding issue right now or or not yeah that's interesting or maybe maybe what this is is just obviously a very very early version of it that just isn't that useful which is all i really said last week two weeks ago he wasn't saying that it needed to be telepathic he just said it weirdly oh yeah no no we figured it out okay so yeah when we tried it last week you would ask it something and then it would spit out instructions that basically negate any reason for you verbally interacting with your computer because all of a sudden it's like okay well to follow these instructions i need to i still think it's gonna do that for a long time a very long time very long time years

Starting point is 00:18:46 potentially because of the hallucination problem, I think as long as it hallucinates a reliable amount Which might sound weird, but I do mean it the way I said it as long as it really hallucinates a reliable amount They're gonna want to keep it away from doing Relatively important system tasks Yeah And they do have it doing like the dark mode, light mode thing does totally work.

Starting point is 00:19:07 And it even like looks kind of cool. You can use it to change from dark mode to light mode. Yeah. But it's just dark mode. It's purely aesthetic. Yeah. And honestly, I think it is,

Starting point is 00:19:16 I think it is as much to do with security as it is to do with definitely both that, because if co-pilot could do anything, even, man, even something as simple as waking the PC. I do think we're gonna get over the security thing though. Well, okay. Because I think they're a little worried about that right now,

Starting point is 00:19:35 but you can still do that through like PowerShell scripts and all this other kind of stuff. So it's not like that functionality doesn't exist. You mean it's- But I think they're worried about the door right now. So I do think it's valid. Exactly. So if you could do anything even something that is as seemingly innocuous as changing the system sleep settings yeah that's a huge security vulnerability potentially right like

Starting point is 00:19:59 if if i could just you know walk by someone's desk let's say i have access to the building and i could kind of like physically access the the computer and i know that this person's kind of careless about leaving their computer when they walk away but they have like a one minute second okay yeah a 15 second sleep so they don't have to think about it right if i could just kind of swing by their computer and or compromise compromise co-pilot somehow over the network over the network yeah and i could get it to change that to a five minute timeout all of a sudden this system that would normally be be locked could be accessed and i okay i i yes yes yes yes i know just a windows system being on the lock screen is not secure. I get it.

Starting point is 00:20:45 I get it. But the difference is that if I can get it to not go to sleep, I can access that computer, change it back to 15 seconds, let it lock and walk away with no one ever knowing I accessed it. If I have to strip the account security off of it, then I can't do it as stealthily. So these are still things that matter. And so there's so many different ways that a computer could be compromised that we might not even think about that I can understand why Microsoft is being extremely cautious. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:21:27 extremely cautious yeah which is again something that i could tell from last week and that informed me that this is obviously not going to be useful at all in the way that i would want it to be useful and therefore is going to suck no matter no matter how unfinished it was because it's obvious that they have serious design constraints i'll make a compromise for you sure you were correct yes you get zero marks that's fine okay yeah oh i'm totally fine with that i would rather be correct and get nothing zero to five get a million dollars and be wrong like no no no i'd no no that actually has all the value to me correct zero to five um and yeah it's it's pretty bad i don't think have you yeah you haven't used the actual release version no i haven't yet so it is better than the one we were

Starting point is 00:22:09 messing with yeah i would hope so it's not for all the reasons you're saying it's not massively better but it is better and i will concede that you were also right that we shouldn't present it as as some kind of thing problem yeah i i guess i just i just so again this is something where sometimes i have blind spots yeah like i evaluate beta crap all the time it's actually my job the reason why i was like so mad is because i knew what you were doing but like i i do it all the time right And so I just make the assumption that everyone watching is like, oh yeah, it's beta. You also have to consider

Starting point is 00:22:49 when someone's going to tune into the show. Yeah, that's fair. How about this? We were both right. Nice. Hell yes. Negotiations. Let's go.

Starting point is 00:23:01 Yeah, no. So I think it's actually going to genuinely see a decent amount of use. That was the worst moment of WEN show ever. That was so cringe. That was pretty cringe. I think it's actually going to see a decent amount of use with people that aren't super familiar with their computers and might want to do something to it.

Starting point is 00:23:22 Yeah. But also like don't want to end up on some weird forum trying to learn. That's the problem is that's what I want it to do something to it yeah uh but also like don't want to end up on some weird forum trying to learn that's the problem is that's what i want it to do and it's just not no it's it's it can do that sort of because when you ask it a question and it just spits out a list of steps i understand yeah i understand hold on not gonna that's still better than having someone dive through forums unsure whatever i understand it's doing the same thing yeah here's my problem with that though is that's useful as long as what you're trying to do is the most basic version of whatever problem absolutely

Starting point is 00:23:57 everybody else had that could possibly be phrased that way i had an issue um with while i was working on my review of the big screen beyond where i couldn't figure out how to close a floating uh like desktop window so basically in in steam vr you can go into your your menu and then you can grab a view of your desktop you can pop it out you can put it somewhere, and then you can close the menu and it'll just hang there in VR and you can do your thing and it'll just be there. And I couldn't find any resources that could tell me how to close it. I found a dozen articles announcing the feature. I found screenshots where the interface was slightly different and it had like an x like it had an obvious way to close it and i don't know if it's just because they've recently updated

Starting point is 00:24:50 steam vr in a big way and i haven't got the latest version of it yet or something it seems to be it seems to be kind of broken right now for me or something or maybe there's a button but i couldn't find i couldn't find the instructions and because pop out window vr issue or you know basically any time you have a problem with um oh man another great example of this is i was having login issues in minecraft dungeons which it's like just a black screen because oh it's so annoying to install minecraft dungeons first you have to log into your microsoft account in the microsoft store then you have to download the launcher then you have to log into your microsoft account in the minecraft launcher

Starting point is 00:25:36 then you launch the game and then you have to log into your Microsoft account in the game which if you haven't logged in in over two months or something like that, and it times out, there's some stupid app data file you have to delete so that the thing will actually refresh. And to top it all off, because, okay,

Starting point is 00:25:57 don't forget two-factor authentication. To top it all off, when you're working with a child's account, you have to provide a parental authorization every f***ing time and I have three kids! Wow, that's okay. So to play Minecraft Dungeons sometimes I'd be doing this times four computers. I'd be spending an hour just getting the game open. So you did 12 logins and 12 parental authentications whatever it worked

Starting point is 00:26:26 out probably 12 2fas yeah it it was very that's the worst great frustrating sometimes it's like is this just on gog the answer is no um handyman says go passwordless use 2FA and pass keys. Handyman, we are often aligned. That, while the right move, it absolutely did not result in less steps. It resulted in a lot more steps. Yeah. Because now for every single one of those computers, unless you're doing it on your phone,

Starting point is 00:26:59 you're logging in each time. If you're doing it on your phone, then you're still juggling back and forth. Yeah. You're still typing in the whole password. Yeah, very frustrating yeah yeah yeah password managers don't reduce steps no no they increase steps yeah but they increase security and i fully support the use of them use them they're very important yeah but yeah it's it can be very it can be very frustrating i forget why we're even talking about this anymore um something about um

Starting point is 00:27:31 something about getting steps oh yeah right so right so when you when you search for something in copilot and it provides you instructions in that manner, the odds of those instructions being just, like, the brain-dead obvious one that actually has nothing to do with your edge case is pretty high. Because, like, in Minecraft Dungeons, whenever I tried to troubleshoot authentication problems

Starting point is 00:28:00 or login issues, it was always like, reset your password. No, no no i actually have an actual problem but because it's especially because it's a piece of software for children most of the time when someone is searching for something about it it is going to be that it's actually going to be that which which naturally surfaces all of those answers and all of those help articles when actually they're completely useless. And what I need is some obscure Reddit thread somewhere. Right.

Starting point is 00:28:31 And here's my, here's my biggest issue with windows copilot is effectively the hallucinations. Yeah. There's this, there's this issue that we've had for a long time, which is where it'll start hallucinating more the longer you have a conversation with it. And things like Go Copilot, they make you want to have a long conversation with it.

Starting point is 00:28:56 Yeah. I feel like the designers. They kind of egg you on. Yeah. I feel like the designers are like, oh, people should use this a lot. Right? So it doesn't really make you think to reset the conversation and there's a lot of threads of people just playing around with it and when everyone plays around with it they do the one cool thing that it can do which is dark mode light mode

Starting point is 00:29:14 um so people do that and then they'll they'll get it to do that and then they'll start asking it other questions and just mid conversation i'll be like do you want me to set it to dark mode and it's like what like i didn't ask for to dark mode? And it's like, what? Like I didn't ask for that at all, but now it's like, can you click the button? I want to set it to dark mode. I want to do this. And it's like, what?

Starting point is 00:29:32 There was somebody who was talking about how- It's like a kid that learns a new song on the recorder at school. It's like, wants to show it to everybody. Yeah, I'm trying to find where this article was from. I can't find it right now, unfortunately, but they said that they were using it. And while talking to it, it asked them if or no, it told them that it should ask it a joke. Ask it a joke.

Starting point is 00:29:56 Yeah. And they were like, what? Okay. And they got it to tell them a joke. And they were like, okay. And then just like went back to what they were joke. And they were like, okay. And then just went back to what they were doing. And they're like, what is this? Someone else asked, sorry, it told someone to ask what its name was.

Starting point is 00:30:16 And they were like, okay. That's a little weird. And they asked and it was like, I'm Bing Chat. It's like, what? No, you're not. You're supposed to be windows co-pilot so there's some there's some you know the same issue we've been having literally the entire time things going on which makes sense you should be able to expect that um but yeah all right let's move on to our next topic um why why the lg wing you guys i called this i was so i was

Starting point is 00:30:50 so okay i called it i even put my thumb on the scales a little bit because i mentioned the fairphone in the video don't even which i really want to review yeah don't you like flash the fairphone in some video recently? Well, I think that might have been the problem. It was. So it's not that I've switched over to it. People rallied over it. I'm still on the Note 9,

Starting point is 00:31:12 but the Fairphone 5 was winning the voting for the new phone that I'm supposed to switch to and review. And I was secretly pretty okay with that because I really want to try it. I think it's a really interesting device. I haven't seen a phone. It was like going back in time.

Starting point is 00:31:30 I put my finger under the little fingernail thing, and I popped the plastic back off my phone, and there was the battery, and I was like, what? Nice. Yeah, exactly, right? It's a cool moment. And so the Fairphone was far and away leading the pack, like way, way ahead of everything else

Starting point is 00:31:47 uh because i i actually mentioned it in the video where i was saying oh yeah you know something like the fair phone might be kind of cool you know wink wink um and then reddit being reddit went completely the opposite direction with this and ever since i showed the Fairphone in the Google whatever they called their 2023 event coverage that we did I think yesterday or the day before LG wing has gone gangbusters and I think is actually leading the pack now what is the fascination with the LG wing it's because they think it'll be horrible That can't be the only reason Is I think it is there's no way come on guys some justification for this I

Starting point is 00:32:38 Might have something that can get you out of it Me too. Okay. Hold on here. Let's see if we can follow. Oh, oh, oh What if it's the same as mine? Let's just go here. Let's let's see where the voting is sitting right now. Okay, hold on here. Let's see if we can find... Oh, uh-oh. Oh, I wonder what Dan's is. I wonder if it's the same as mine. Let's just go here. Let's see where the voting is sitting right now. Oh, no. See, I don't expect this to win, but I want more attention on the great form... If it was great, it might have sold a few.

Starting point is 00:32:59 Okay, so if everyone watching... Hold on a second. Hold on a second. If everyone watching when show... Okay, I don't have permission to view my own channel um see this is what happens you need to put dan in charge it was your decision it's probably luke uh maybe i don't even know what you guys are complaining about but yeah i did it i blame luke yep no i'm i'm just i, wow, I'm not even, I, I can't, I can't. It's discontinued?

Starting point is 00:33:30 Yeah, but he can get one. Okay, well, I can't see it. Anyway, the point is, the point is. You got a Hot Wheels PC. Okay, the point is, um, if everyone watching the show right now goes right now and votes for the Fairphone 5, can you stop can you stop okay if everyone goes and votes for the fair phone five we can win this and then we can get a review of a legitimately interesting more sustainable phone They offer long-term software support,

Starting point is 00:34:07 replacement hardware availability, all this cool stuff. I got to admit, it's a bit of a brick. But I think we can do this. I think we can get a useful video about a real product that actually matters okay so let's see are you guys doing it you're not doing it what is that what is the point of me even saying anything okay no they're not doing it dan what is your way to get him out of this yeah dan i'm i want to hear yours first because i'm wondering if it's the same as mine let me today let me let me hold on wait i want to type my note just to see i i mean i highly doubt this but okay okay uh today the donor phone for his other phone arrived oh this was yeah we're not alone so i don't have to upgrade at all i can just keep using my note you hired me so i can just keep your phone alive forever with organs from younger phones like billionaires. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:35:08 Does it have to drink their blood? Nope. If it's a billionaire. Okay, my argument... It doesn't drink pool water, I'll tell you that much. My argument is current gen operating system. Android 14 just dropped. It just got Android 13 like a couple months ago.

Starting point is 00:35:30 Yeah, but it will not get Android 14 and Android 14 just dropped. We specifically said as long as it supports up to like Android 12 or something like that. Well. 11 is the best. Well. Yeah. I did tell you you're going to get trolled. Yeah, but I thought it would be.

Starting point is 00:35:44 I thought it would be trolled like using iPhone. LG f***ing wing? They literally... They found the gold. They found the most hilarious thing. It's the most hilarious thing, which is why it's getting the most votes. It actually, like...

Starting point is 00:36:01 I don't know. If the goal is the funniest option they definitely found it the fair phone is the most interesting option the phony mcphone face of responses 100 yeah yeah the fair phone is the most interesting option the wing is the funniest option this is so dumb i have a i have another question for you what what phone do i get what phone do you get i i i committed many years ago that as long as luke followed me on this wild journey he would always have he would always have a good pc in that way i'm not giving you a phone that was never the deal i wasn't asking for a free phone i was asking what phone should i like yeah

Starting point is 00:36:42 he's backpedaling now no no no i wasn't classic classic Luke what phone am I getting well I'm not giving you a phone no no I wasn't asking for a phone you know what now I want a phone fine here I don't want that one it's better than yours at least it doesn't interfere with the mic it probably is better than mine um no but okay so I was waiting for the oh you know what's really funny hold on i'm totally gonna i'm totally gonna interrupt you here it's fine you are i think the third person to see my video saying i don't know what phone to buy no who has seen that and asked me what phone should i buy dude i talked about this on wayan show months ago i was gonna wait for the the pixel 8 announcement and then potentially buy it.

Starting point is 00:37:27 I literally lined this up months ago. Okay, well, multiple people that I know personally have seen my video, just come across it because it got fed to them algorithmically. And we're like, your videos pop up sometimes. This is blah, blah. The algorithms are creepy. I saw the title. You need a new phone. Hey, I didn't actually watch the blah. The algorithms are Creek creepy. I saw the title. You need a new phone.

Starting point is 00:37:46 Hey, I didn't actually watch the video. Maybe they read the comments, but I'm in the same boat. I was rocking my iPhone seven caseless, but juggled it while I had a baby in the baby carrier and it smashed. Curious if you have any recommendations. I'm just like the vid,

Starting point is 00:38:00 the video title was, I don't know what phone to get. And then you're like immediately, Hey Linus, what phone should I get? In all seriousness though, I did have a good recommendation for them because I don't know what phone to get. And then you're like immediately, hey, Linus, what phone should I get? In all seriousness, though, I did have a good recommendation for them because I do actually know like what phone they should buy. If they've been using an iPhone since the iPhone 7, they should just get a new iPhone.

Starting point is 00:38:15 Because clearly they're happy with the experience and a new iPhone is just going to be that, but like more better, which is probably all they need. That sounds about right. Most people don't want to tinker with their phone they just want to make phone calls and text people and install whatever mandatory app if for whatever stupid iot thing they bought like that's that's pretty much it for almost everyone i know who is not a technophile in my life that's all they care about okay i'm like navigation um okay i'm gonna let you finish now uh yeah i know it's like like months ago you you like asked me when i was gonna get a new phone because my phone is

Starting point is 00:38:55 doing interference and it's partially smashed and all this kind of stuff and i said i was waiting for the the pixelate announcement and then the pixelate was announced i get the pixel 8 pro i feel like i'm like kind of sketched with google like pretty aggressively and i'm not just saying that because you said in your video i'm saying that because of domains and podcasts both being killed in the last little bit yeah clearly they don't care at all so i i think the commit level for Android is extremely high. I actually have another video. But what about Pixel? I think that Pixel and Android are like this now.

Starting point is 00:39:38 I think always is a really strong word, especially for a company like Google. But I don't think that pixel is going away anytime soon especially because the pixel has already kind of gone through its period of extremely high losses for google and it made it out of it as far as i can tell people that i know again back to the non-technophiles in my life they They're honestly a far more useful barometer than talking to people like you. It's like, if I talk to you about like,

Starting point is 00:40:09 oh, what are the coolest phones right now? You're gonna tell me, you know, some enthusiast shit that you read about on Reddit or something like that. Like, that's not useful to me. I wanna talk to my aunt and my uncle and my siblings, people who don't follow this stuff. Like, what is actually penetrating

Starting point is 00:40:26 outside of the tech bubble into into these other spheres right and pixel is showing up now i'm hearing about pixels from other parents of kids at my kid's school right like so i it seems like i still don't see a ton of them out in the wild, but it seems like it's... Shifting a little bit. It's shifting. And I think that that momentum is going to carry on, especially now that Google is saying that they are doing what I've been saying someone on the Android side needs to do, which is commit to long-term software support for these bloody things. which is commit to long-term software support for these bloody things. It's also great timing

Starting point is 00:41:08 because the hardware has finally reached a point where I think it is actually conceivable that you might still want to be using that phone in seven years. Seven years. But remember, Google's vertically integrated. Seven years is a long time, but they're also committing to make sure it stays usable

Starting point is 00:41:26 and that hardware it looks like they didn't talk about it much google committing though is like i know i know i know this is the whole problem that's the whole problem but but but sometimes google does stuff and then is just like oh sorry forget it i'm not gonna do that anymore sometimes they take that approach but then other times they really have shown incredible tenacity and long-term thinking i actually i i was planning to make a video about this and i think we'll do it because it's not really about anything specific oh wait no yeah no i okay no i thought of something specific we can make it about there's like premium chromebooks or something coming out or something like that.

Starting point is 00:42:06 So we'll kind of tie it into that. But really what the video is going to be about is that Microsoft and Apple have lost an entire generation of computer users. Yeah. And I don't know if they even realize it yet. Yeah, no, okay, you said you're doing a video on this? Yes. Good, because it's actually a very interesting conversation one of the smartest things that apple ever did was get max into the classrooms the educational discount equipping every school i could think of with a

Starting point is 00:42:36 computer lab full of max was genius absolute genius because when you're at the store and the options are this thing i am familiar with and know how to use you're a parent and don't really care that much or this thing that i have no idea how it works which one are you going to pick but not not even so i mean i mean as an adult yeah when you grow up but i think think even before then. Oh, for the parents, yeah. It's whatever the kids come home and like, especially, you gotta remember. I use this thing at school. I need one for home. You gotta remember, this is in the context of the 90s, right? The 90s, early 2000s when not every household had, just trying to think, did everyone I

Starting point is 00:43:22 know have a computer in like 2001? just trying to think did everyone i know have a computer in like 2001 most did probably not all yet though a lot yeah it was a lot did late 90s though not everyone had a computer most not even yeah not even a little bit that was a very that was a very man looking back at it that was a jump fast transition especially given how expensive they were best buy was popping back then that's crazy i used to go to best buy to like hang out um so anyway so so back to back back to this whole thing so back then yeah the kid just telling the parents yeah this is the one that like we have at school when the parents don't know how to use either of them yet and don't use either of them yet, unless they're using a computer for

Starting point is 00:44:08 work, that could dictate their preference, right? And so now we're seeing that with Chromebooks. My kids have to have a Chromebook for school. If they didn't have Windows machines at home for gaming, they would have more hours logged in Chrome OS than they would have in Mac OS and Windows combined. And, oh, this is happening, this is such a slow boil. It's happening so slowly and so quietly that I feel like a lot of people aren't noticing this chromebooks can have steam now and they just like can have x86 processors or like you know they i didn't know that and they can have and yeah oh no that's been for a long time long time and and now and now like better more premium or ones are coming out that might actually have decent onboard graphics you could play some sea of stars you know play some some older games some pixel art style games play some overcooked um no no i

Starting point is 00:45:11 don't think so is it proton i'm actually not sure there's definitely native games but you might need proton does it use proton steam my dad just come in here i had a computer in 1983 well yeah we know we know have i told you the the altar story yes it is proton yeah yeah so they're using proton and then hold on we'll get to that okay we'll get to that and then and then the thing is proton is getting so much better quietly quietly in the background oh it's just steam deck it's just steam deck. It's just Steam Deck. Is the year of the Linux desktop going to be f***ing Chrome OS? Depending on how this whole Windows 12 subscription thing goes, maybe. Like what? Yeah, maybe.

Starting point is 00:46:00 Yeah, maybe. So, sorry, back to my point about Google having an extremely long game approach sometimes. I think that Pixel is their long game answer to Apple not just completely owning the North American smartphone market. Okay, I have a... I think they need it. I have an offer, a question, and a story. Okay, let's go with the story because I think it's about your dad and his computer.

Starting point is 00:46:32 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when my dad was up at the altar getting married to my mom, he leans in and tells her, I bought a computer this morning. I would have waited until after. Yeah, I think it was. I might have gotten some part of that wrong,

Starting point is 00:46:50 but it's essentially that. Amazing story. Clearly, I wasn't alive for it, but great story, and I believe it 100%. Super sick. We always had computers around. For my birthday one year, I got a definitely legit CDd i'm pretty sure it was

Starting point is 00:47:09 actually a cd with just a whole bunch of games names of games written on it you put it in you could load any of them up it was awesome it was sick that was like that was huge at that time all true yeah apparently i nailed it let's go um okay which one next i don't remember the other thing i'll take the offer the offer oh it's probably gonna be a bad offer it is yeah you're stuck with the wing okay i can take the fair phone or the note nine no i don't tell you what let's let reddit decide which of minus's phones there's the broken fold three not for long the work hey i'll take that one yeah working pretty good i'll take that it's gonna be great yeah yeah but this is dan telling you that yeah i trust him he's good at fixing

Starting point is 00:47:58 stuff legitimately yeah but he doesn't even know if it's fixable yet yeah you could literally end up find a way broken phone they'll find a way well the side screen on the new one works the note 9 at least works it's like more smashed up than my phone is um okay uh then the then the question i guess your question uh why the pro uh oh i um because it's like it's a lot more it's 300 more us so it's like 400 it's a lot more. It's $300 more, US. So it's like $400 Canadian dollars more. And from what I could tell, it's not that huge of a jump. So the camera is a lot better. And it's better in ways that I think with advancements in computational photography

Starting point is 00:48:39 over the next seven years, which is a long time, next seven years which is a long time that i think it will provide a much better platform for taking better pictures for longer that is my theory i don't actually have anything to back that up but i think having those better sensors in the in the ultra wide and in the telephoto are going to be um significant i know you don't take a ton of pictures and i know it's not the most important aspect of a phone's performance i do take pictures though and it is pretty cool whenever you're in a moment when like there's a group of people taking pictures and they're like all right who has like the best camera and you can be like yo um me it also has a bigger screen which you have large hands what is your excuse for using a smaller screen

Starting point is 00:49:25 Like why would you like I have to Like just use a bigger phone Like what are you dumb Are you angry about this No not even a little bit Just get a fucking pixelate pro Small phone syndrome Small phones aren't allowed

Starting point is 00:49:38 They're for me I'm just saying If you can comfortably use them if you can comfortably use them then like i i can't see a reason not to have more screen real estate you know remoting into systems or whatever else it's just it's just really nice to have uh also your eyes suck they're pretty okay up close yeah i just i just, I just, you know what? Just trying to throw shots. Yeah. Oh my goodness.

Starting point is 00:50:11 Yeah. So other reasons is that it's not just photos anymore. So now all of a sudden with that new HDR enhancement and night sight for video, again, I think that the better camera platform you're gonna have the better potential for processing um there's going to be in the long term this is purely speculative though i i have no way to back this up the four gigs of ram is fairly intriguing to me and regarding long term you know what i mean because we we we've watched this steady march always yeah things either become uh you know coded in a way where you know the developer just didn't literally care in the

Starting point is 00:50:54 slightest um or just actually very inefficient or just actually bigger programs that need more ram even if they are coded very well etc but the the march of things that eat more RAM is just constant. Yep. So, I don't know. And you are the kind of person, like, you always got to think about when someone asks for a recommendation, who are they? You know, who is this person, right? And so, you're the kind of person that when I think about that, I go, oh, oh no he actually conceivably could use this thing for seven years yeah possibly yeah but then you've been burned on pixels every time you've bought

Starting point is 00:51:32 them you've been unhappy with them for a while not forever i was i was really really early on in the nexus train loved it loved the really early pixels it's the last two pixels that i've had that have both had a lot of problems i've heard from other people that have had the same pixel as me i think conrad i don't remember that they had a great time so i don't know that this is universal but i had i had i've always had tons of issues my phone since the day i've had it the whole time i've had it has had this issue where the uh the drag down tray at the top, sorry, will just randomly shoot down.

Starting point is 00:52:10 So I'm like trying to do something on my phone, it's just like. I'm like, ah, it's really annoying. Or like literally while I'm typing things, like you call up something and they're like, enter your whatever, and you go to type it in, it'll just turn the screen off. And I turn it back on and then I'm moving my finger

Starting point is 00:52:24 to press the next button, it'll turn the screen off nice and i turn it back on and then i'm moving my finger to press the next button i'll turn the screen off again it's like oh my god oh that happens a lot on my near sensor yeah the proximity sensor at the top yeah it's in a really inconvenient spot on this phone too so you'll go to and it stops oh no mine don't mine don't like i'll have my phone just on the table next to me yeah i'm i'm there's nothing on top of it there's nothing there and it'll just be like whipping the the top tray up and down rapidly and it'll like turn the screen off randomly when i didn't actually manually do it like it just it's just terrible people are saying rma yeah good luck yeah they they will tell you that they won't fix it. I wish that I could recommend to you, you know, the 2023 edition of the Note 9.

Starting point is 00:53:11 Going back to this phone, there's definitely things about it that are dated. It's pretty slow by modern standards. But like, compared to the... Okay, here, hold on, hold on. I've actually got it with me. You have spirits around you? i don't know this my my last pixel i had some problems with i think it was like call reception or something i don't remember what it was compared to the in the hand wow what the heck just you know it feels it feels downright modern and the fairphone feels downright the fairphone definitely does not feel modern at all downright modern. And the Fairphone feels downright...

Starting point is 00:53:45 The Fairphone definitely does not feel modern at all. Downright brick-like. I don't mind it too much, but it is a thick boy. It's definitely chubby. No jack? What? No, no headphone jack. Even Fairphone doesn't have a headphone jack anymore. I mean, it's thick enough.

Starting point is 00:54:03 You'd think they'd just do it. I'm not even trying trying to Luke's review Um like this Thing if I could just get This but more modern And more better I would absolutely Take it integrated Stylus okay you got The headphone jack micro SD

Starting point is 00:54:22 Um I don't Think oh yeah it's dual sim or sim plus micro sd you know what i have found myself using a lot is the iris scanner i i didn't even think about it all the years i was using it and i didn't really miss it with the fold because you know the location of the fingerprint sensor was very inconvenient anyway and whatever but there have been times ever since i switched back to it that i'm like oh my hands are oh it doesn't matter boop and i'm and i'm into it again um i man i just it doesn't have a stupid gaping bullet exit wound hole in its display for no reason it had like i i still think this might be the phone that had the skinniest top bar but that contains everything and that you just have a perfectly

Starting point is 00:55:11 square display with no holes or or notches or anything like that i just ah it doesn't exist so oh well uh wait we're supposed to do a couple here's the next hold on here's the next question i have one more thing oh okay now what bundle do you get bundle because if you go i thought the pro comes with the pixel buds or the pixel watch 2 oh well uh and here's a weird caveat yeah pretty much both of them i'm just going to be reselling because i like can't do wearables because i'm gonna just lose them immediately okay that's been a thing forever and then the earbuds i have that like ear thing so i can only wear the ones that like hook in my ears i can't wear the and those are the insert ones get the watch and try it then flip it okay

Starting point is 00:56:00 yeah yeah i would do that all right because i mean maybe the watch will actually be good maybe this time maybe yeah apparently they fix the battery life issues so you should be getting like 24 hours so there are some things uh heart rate tracking stuff like that i think i've been thinking for a long time yeah i should probably get a watch for um but i haven't wanted to get an apple watch because well my experience of, my experience of having AirPods and needing to use those with my Android phone. Like, yeah, I haven't asked anyone. You can't use an Apple Watch with an Android phone. Oh, yeah, perfect.

Starting point is 00:56:34 So if you want to know why I was wearing one for so long. It's just like a protest for the meme. Yeah, cool. Yeah, I was literally just using an Apple Watch as a watch. It did absolutely nothing else other than tell the time and i i don't know it was it was my silent protest uh about the state of android wearables is that i would rather wear an apple watch that does nothing but tell the time than wear an android wearable have you have you do i uh have you been able to use the watch yet which one the pixel watch too

Starting point is 00:57:07 yeah i didn't even know we had it yet i don't know oh yeah no i haven't i haven't touched i haven't touched the pixelator pixelate pro yet okay here's the next color i'm just gonna just go through the whole keep asking questions yeah you know the entire shopping you're going to have you're going to have to actually send a merch message if you want to ask me another question archive what what color oh i don't care just put a dbrand skin on it what does it matter yeah fair enough yeah yeah kind of stupid question it looks like the screen's broken on this one let's go doesn't that look like broken screen yeah it does actually look like kind of a broken screen how did they choose that?

Starting point is 00:57:45 That one also almost looks like broken screen. Yeah, Folkling Chad's asking what financing should he get? Yeah. Well, go to Dell. Apparently, Dell Financial Services is not in Canada anymore, which is why they didn't offer us financing. Not because they just aren't pushy about it necessarily. Oh.

Starting point is 00:58:01 Yeah. Oh, man, I'm so excited for the next part of secret shopper guys we look at all the systems we see if there's any shipping damage spoiler alert there is yeah so man it's gonna be it's gonna be a freaking roller coaster and then i think next week we're gonna be shooting the next part where we look at um tech support help me that's shot already that's shot already uh shay was in here for i think one day doing the ordering let's just say it wasn't one day oh to get all the tech support stuff done so yeah there's there's definitely going to be some interesting stuff i don't know anything about it yet but i do know that it took a long time what carrier would you like to discuss that as well actually no you know any any accessories or

Starting point is 00:58:48 you know what cell phone plan anything like that no no not carry yourself all right you're done now we can actually do merch messages you're just paying for it for okay all right this is this is company phone plan this is true we have company phone plans it's one of our perks yeah it's on the website if you go to linusmediagroup.com slash jobs and you scroll down to the bottom apparently no one does that but it lists up a list a bunch of benefits you might want to read them no it's a horrible place to work it's a horrible place to work we're a cheapskate employer i mean my experience today, yeah. They do got snacks, though.

Starting point is 00:59:29 Hey, the snacks are pretty good. It's pretty nice. It's pretty good. Yeah. All right. What are merch messages? Yeah, right. Merch messages are the way to interact with the show.

Starting point is 00:59:47 And I apparently triggered one of our regular viewers extremely hard last week when i said hey guys we don't have a straight up donation because from our point of view you should get something when you spend money uh we don't have a straight up donation so if you really want to just donate you can buy a gift card on the store and then just never spend it and they must have an accounting background because they were extremely upset about the growing liability that we would be carrying in terms of this like um like unserviced or this like unaccounted for like effective debt that we have to it's it's okay don't don't worry most people most people actually do want things. Whether they realize it or not, most people, once they've handed the money over,

Starting point is 01:00:31 do spend the gift cards. Oh, maybe I should use this. Yeah, exactly. That screwdriver is actually pretty cool. Yeah, exactly. So whenever we say, hey, if you just want to send in a merch message and just donate to the show,

Starting point is 01:00:45 we're not actually asking for your free money. We want you guys to get something, but you just don't have to have it today. You can pick up a gift card now and then you can spend it later. I don't care. I'm also speaking of which, if you end up doing that like a lot and you end up saving up like a fair amount of money worth of gift cards, I know it's like the LTT store thing to release products when they are like exactly 180 days out of season.

Starting point is 01:01:12 Um, but, but there's actually some like really nice jackets. I prefer that. I prefer to, um, I prefer to message it as we release products when they are exactly 100% ready. There you go. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:01:31 And sometimes. And that just always. It always takes about half a year longer than you'd like. You get the idea at the right time, but then you have to perfect it. It takes too long. But anyways, yeah. Like some of those, like it's very expensive expensive but that 3d down jacket is like the nicest jacket ever so yeah luke loves the 3d jacket i actually really like the 3d down jacket this season though i'm actually

Starting point is 01:01:55 wearing the rain jacket or what do we call it i i think it's windbreaker or rain jacket i don't remember yeah it's sorry i think we don't advertise it as a rain jacket uh but we we definitely it's definitely a really good windbreaker yeah windbreaker yeah oh i i actually love the wind right now in like this climate that's perfect for sure yeah uh but that's not the big one that we are talking about this week oh right how to send a merch message so that's what you're looking at down there they go to our producer dan hey there he is um and he will either send them to someone internally who can answer your question and get back to you later or he will respond to you down here or he'll just throw your message up here if it's like hi mom um or he will curate them for us to talk about later on the show so he's got a couple curated ones to hit us with now. But first I just want to show you guys what we've got going on on the show.

Starting point is 01:02:48 Oh, Hey, I guess Tatiana is off probation. Cool. We have brought back the short circuit long sleeve. She's our like materials specialist. So she's working on some really cool stuff that we've got coming with. Basically what we realized is that

Starting point is 01:03:06 we are we really like to pick really cool and awesome materials but sometimes we run into development problems like you were saying that make our products take a really long time because we don't have like a scientific background in materials so tatiana does now we do yeah so so she's been working on things like um you know quantifying water resistance of various materials or or helping us identify why that material stretches in a way that makes it not really suitable for this style of garment and how we can modify it and stuff like that um so the long sleeve short circuit t long really is that what we call it no short short circuit long sleeve shirt is finally back the story behind this one is hilarious we we conceived of the design ages ago and then we printed it on these american apparel long sleeves

Starting point is 01:04:07 and then they were like too long for me and i was like oh this is a really weird shirt um it's too long and uh but we already printed them all so some i guess we'll sell it long and just so we'll sell it and we'll just say up front that it's a lanky fit and so it's back it's back with the nice long sleeves that you guys remember of course if you have shorter arms you can just bunch it up uh yvonne absolutely loves this one wears it all the time but now it is even better because it is made out of the same material as rts yeah it's nice it's really nice so it's got that same great fit that same super cool design and a better material than the old american apparel based one that we were never able to get back in stock which is why we never did another printing of them so ltt first party

Starting point is 01:04:57 long sleeves are finally here uncle skip i will get you one he bothers me like every six months about these his american apparel one like ripped around the collar which was apparently an issue with some american apparel garments which is one of the reasons that we pursued getting our own um and so he bothers me about it like every once in a while he's like hey have you restocked that yet i'm like okay yes yes yes yes i will get you one i will get you one um yeah yeah really excited about that we also have what's what's the other thing we're supposed to talk about on the story i've always liked the aesthetic of having design stuff on like the arms and then not a ton on like the trunk i really like this shirt oh my god the bread plushie um is available for pre-order yes we are doing a

Starting point is 01:05:43 pre-order because no i am not just to produce an arbitrary number of bread plushies and then just hope we sell them. We are going to produce exactly, und exactly the number that people order, plus a few extras just in case of RMA. Yes, yes, you can squeeze my bun. It's so squishy. Yeah, it is very squishy.

Starting point is 01:06:01 Anyway, that's up on the store. Also, oh, hey, Dan, we might need to throw you on the camera real quick here. Oh, yeah. There. It's Luke cam. I just put it on the Luke cam. The people have better things to do than sit and wait for WAN show. Wait, no, they don't.

Starting point is 01:06:27 We have two new pins on the store. We're calling them fail plane pins. Yeah, there's an explanation for that. Oh, gosh. Do we have more zoom, Dan? Luke, are you really going to hold it up where the lower third is? No, I'm trying to. Oh, yeah, here we go.

Starting point is 01:06:44 Okay. Don't switch to this camera um but i did uh is it does it need to be back here are you okay oh yeah there we go no we can see it dan we're good okay we're calling these we're calling these fail plane pins our pin supplier there was a bit of a miscommunication with our pin supplier and our upcoming order of flow plane pins got well float they got screwed up um so now we have these we didn't want to throw them in the trash so we decided to accept the order for them and list them for free as a bonus bin item so in the bonus bin item we have these pins that are not exactly the design that we intended like I think they have fill in them when they're not supposed to or something like that. So if I remember correctly, it's kind of hard to see.

Starting point is 01:07:32 Yeah, they have kind of like an iridescent multicolored thing, kind of like some of the RGB ones we've done in the past. So it kind of looks like that on the back. They really can't see that, Luke. I think it's easier to see on the black one, Luke. Particularly on the edge of it okay and this is hard to watch you guys oh yeah yeah there you go you can totally see it like the purple blue kind of uh yeah so that color yeah was supposed to be like inside the wings on here so they still look great to be honest super cool but it technically wasn't it technically wasn't it technically

Starting point is 01:08:05 wasn't what we ordered we ordered um so we're calling them fail plane pins yeah and when you place an order you'll see them in the bonus bin uh you can pick all kinds of cool stuff in the bonus bin we like intentionally put really good stuff in there all the time so that people will see them and be like oh wow what a cool bonus in this bin i honestly i i i see the the design idea of having it filled like it does look kind of like partially done but i think there's gonna be some people like these more anyways yeah so like cool you can get them for free so the float plane pins will come at some point wings like the lg wing no i'm not talking about that anymore uh the last thing for the store is actually a huge announcement.

Starting point is 01:08:48 We have been added to YouTube's affiliate program. So if your channel, if you are a creator watching this, for example, like tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands or millions of followers or subscribers, I guess they're called on YouTube. I don't know. I'm new to the platform. If you are a creator, our channel is enabled for product tagging on YouTube. I don't know. I'm new to the platform. If you are a creator, our channel is enabled for product tagging on YouTube. So you can tag LTT products like the screwdriver and earn a commission whenever your viewers buy one. This includes screwdriver, stubby screwdriver, desk pads,

Starting point is 01:09:19 and more. If you are a creator in the US who does not currently have access to this program, all you got to do is comment down below saying something like, please add me to the YouTube affiliate program. Let's go with that. We can't promise that everyone will be accepted into the program. You have to have a considerable number of subscribers and a lot of active viewership on your channel. It's not even us doing the accepting.

Starting point is 01:09:43 I don't know. I think. I don't have a ton of active viewership on your channel. It's not even us doing the accepting. So like, yeah, I don't know. I think I don't have a ton of details. Um, but we have asked our YouTube contacts to take a look through the comments and add some of the eligible creators who comment down below. And if there's some of them that, you know, don't comment down below, but we think would be great candidates, then maybe we'll reach out. I'm not sure. I don't know if that's anyone's job. Not even really sure how it works. Yeah.% sure how it works I just found out about this right before the show but it's super cool super exciting I believe the commission 10% I think I don't think we actually know oh okay it might be that it costs us money so I hope we know at some point um but anyway uh wait maybe that's right I

Starting point is 01:10:24 don't know we'll figure it out yeah uh the point is it's like a bunch though yeah you'll get an affiliate commission for every every backpack or every screwdriver or whatever whatever else it is that you sell so uh yeah super exciting you know we're we're getting into the big leagues and as far as you know ethical affiliate programs go i think one that is embedded directly on youtube is pretty above board and pretty transparent so i think it's great we've talked about that before yeah i think this is really cool i think it's kind of neat we we sent all those screwdrivers out so a bunch of creators

Starting point is 01:10:56 just already have yeah so if you just use it in a video and just like just just link it yeah then people can just buy it and then you can just get like seven bucks or whatever every time that happens that will add up extremely quickly sounds pretty sick to me yeah yeah it's cool super cool all right why don't we do a couple messages dan you know you know we we get questions about this through merch messages every once in a while those like what made it feel like a real company this is like a oh this is big real feels like company real company moment yeah huge real company energy yeah all right here's some uh merch messages dll i enjoy the watching the pre-wan show chit chat and the interesting topics of that day when you're not planning a wan show like on other

Starting point is 01:11:38 weeknights do you always have late night making videos not always um we definitely do end up we definitely do end up doing it sometimes but as we've as we've grown as a as a company um we have tried to not do that as much um i mean oh man does it ever happen sometimes though? Like I was here until nine or 9.30 shooting the iPhone 15 Pro short circuit. What else have we been at for a really long time recently? Man, I'd have to fire up the channel to kind of see. And I gotta tell you, the energy on set during those times is very similar to the pre-show.

Starting point is 01:12:30 Just because everyone's tired, you know? Yeah. We're doing our best to keep the energy up, but it's like, it gets kind of silly, I guess is what I'm trying to say. Oh man, all the members only stuff kind of clutters up the interface now for me when i'm just looking at the public facing channel uh by the way there are some amazing there's a solution floatplane exclusives that have come out lately yeah um these are you basically members on our channel is just float plane, but worse.

Starting point is 01:13:05 Yeah. So you pay more for no reason other than that. You just didn't feel like entering your credit card into our website. The newlywed game videos are actually hilarious so far. They're so good. I've seen actual newlywed games at actual weddings and honestly found most of them relatively stale. Well, these are funny funny so here's a thing um i forget who i was talking to i think it might have been david the camera cinematographer

Starting point is 01:13:34 david and um he made an observation that uh you know he spends probably more time with me than anyone else like in his entire life and it's like yeah as one of our as like doing varied things to all kinds of different things yeah um and and it's one of those things that i think we don't necessarily think about sometimes how much of our lives we spend with our colleagues particularly the ones that we work with relatively closely like david and i shoot together a lot like same for me i i spend a ton of my waking hours with david i mean we're not always you know having a heart-to-heart conversation or anything like that but we are certainly in each other's presence and trying to make it not awful for each other you know like we're interacting with each other um uh where was i going with this right so so there are probably boss um like like uh i don't know what's what's the opposite of that whatever there are

Starting point is 01:14:40 probably colleague relationships in this building where those two people have spent more time with each other over the last three years or even a greater period of time than they have with their own spouses like there are probably work relationships here where people have spent more time with that person than someone has with someone else before actually marrying them is what i'm kind of trying to say so i can see why it would be absolutely flipping hilarious yeah we've had a lot of really great exclusive this ended up being a fully exclusive video me and luke trying out starfield um typing test but on alternate keyboard layouts that one ended up being actually really funny uh yvonne's first time one it's actually really good it ends up

Starting point is 01:15:22 mostly just being an interview with yvonne about sort of the company and the early days and starting out and stuff. The first time series is people reacting to their first time on camera. But with Yvonne, her first time on camera is extremely complicated. way too much time going back through the entire back catalog on our channel and finding even blurs of pixels that were Yvonne like when she was shooting something and moved the camera and was caught in a reflection for a moment I'm like well technically that was actually her first appearance on the channel but you couldn't see her at all uh so it's it's a pretty good one it's a pretty good one um all right dan hit us with a couple merch message oh wait there's one more i got one more for you yeah hi lld oh wait no go right subscribe to floatplane floatplane.com um lmg.gg slash floatplane is actually i think the best way to get to it

Starting point is 01:16:20 if you want to get the sorting is like legitimately better access to exclusives oh i mean creative sub channels is like that's probably worth showing actually so uh float plane is just plain you can also expand the site so he has it shrunk down so you can see just the individual icons sorry but behind where we are right now so this this frame that i'm currently in is covering up a ui element that makes you can expand it so you can see the channel names but you can also have it you can see the channel names. But you can also have it shrunk if you want, whatever else. The Trash Network also has subchannels, so you can see how his is set up. Yeah, I just find it a lot easier.

Starting point is 01:17:02 So if you're looking for Flowplane exclusives, I suspect a rather common path is to go on Flowplane, expand to the channel you're looking for, click on the exclusives tab, and then see the new stuff. Yeah. Or just go to individual channels, whatever you want to do. Yeah. Lots and lots of good exclusives lately. Yeah. All right, one more. IELD, Linus, how do you deal with being tech cursed?

Starting point is 01:17:22 As a fellow cursed one, watching I'm staying on AMD got me quite baffled. You had never experienced such blue screens up to that point. I mean, I've experienced some doozies of blue screens, but one thing that wasn't captured was that it changed. That was a still picture of it. It did some stuff. It was a pretty trippy blue screen. As for how I deal with being tech cursed,

Starting point is 01:17:44 I mean, I understand that it's self-inflicted yeah if i wanted if i wanted my stuff to work then i would never touch anything newer than three four years old yeah i'd be running like 10th gen processor running bleeding edge stuff and doing it in weird ways it's like half the fun i mean it's right in the name, right? It's the bleeding edge. You get cut. Yeah. Yeah. I, uh... Like, people were... And I get it, and it's fair. But people were roasting me for my GPU configuration.

Starting point is 01:18:13 I'm like, I think it's sick. I think it's awesome. The fact that that works and has worked with no issue for so long is, like, that's wicked. And the thing is that, how do we learn unless we push the limits right like yeah using a gpu on a riser is not invalid people put gpus on risers just for the sake of having them vertically in their system so that they look cool or whatever i ran a computer in a fish tank you think i did that because i thought it would work really well yeah exactly and you know hey luke luke walked so that my land center can run all those gpus are using risers but we we

Starting point is 01:18:52 learned some things and we got special risers that video is coming out i think this weekend we got special risers that are made by i want to say cpain custom pcb design or something like that yeah wow i know cpane any relation to okay no it doesn't matter the point is that we've got these special risers that work amazing they've been absolutely flawless so far um to run 3080s in the front of the racks yeah when the motherboards are in the back because we had signaling issues with display port um that we couldn't get around running internal extensions from the gpus inside running to the back where we had them before so that that whole that whole thing's coming out we finally finally have the 1u gaming systems to their final form. And honestly, I'd like to see someone make a case

Starting point is 01:19:47 that's kind of based on what we did because I think it's not that stupid. Like Rackmount Gaming PC. Now someone's going to do it. Yeah, I think if you took a lot of the ideas and did a 2U instead so that you can actually, because the 2U crosses that threshold into where you can actually use reasonably sized fans.

Starting point is 01:20:07 You can use 80 millimeter fans. There are radiators for 80 mil fans. What are you on at 1U? 40 mil. Oh yeah, that's kind of gross. Yeah, they're little tiny wimpy little things. So that's why we have the radiators and the pumps external for the whole thing.

Starting point is 01:20:24 Have I shown you? Like, have you been for the whole thing have i shown you like have you been to my place have i shown you the setup video lately you keep telling me we're gonna land and then you don't tell me when well you saw the message right yeah but when well the date isn't set yet oh no i mean you saw there's a there's a survey you you have to weigh in on the day oh oh oh no i didn't was that just in teams yeah Yeah. Oh, okay. I'll see. Get rekt. Yeah, I'll get it. Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, yeah, we, there's a LAN. All right. We're landing.

Starting point is 01:20:50 All right. All right, let's go. All right. Yeah, we got to play some, play some, play some CE. Yeah. Play some Worms Armageddon. CE. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that took me a second, took me a second.

Starting point is 01:21:00 All right, give us, give us one more, Dan. How many people? So. Because that's a team's invite. I should probably explain. We were supposed to do a video for Ubiquity. Yep. Talking about how we ran Whaleland at LTX.

Starting point is 01:21:21 Ubiquity are our bros, at LTX. Ubiquity are our bros and we said we would make a video about that and then we didn't. And so I first heard about that very recently. Yep.

Starting point is 01:21:36 And I was in a brainstorming session for how we make a video about how we ran a LAN that is already over. And I went, new LAN. But at your house. Well,

Starting point is 01:21:48 here's the thing. My house is already ubiquity up the butt. Yep. With all the same gear. No, I'm not against it. Makes sense. And how many people?

Starting point is 01:21:58 Well, it has to be at least the kind of size that we would need some switches and stuff. So our goal is somewhere between 60 and 100. Where are you going to, it's a big house, but where are you going to put them all? I don't know. Okay. But it's going to be really fun.

Starting point is 01:22:15 It's going to be like partially outdoors, which would be sick, to be honest, but a little weather dependent. Yeah. So I think this is interesting for a lot of reasons um i want to see how close i i told i told jake we need to get a clamp meter for the the main power line running into the house to see how close we get to our actual service um capacity borrowing power from the neighbors it's like borrowing water back in the day hoses for the pool but instead it's power for the land i suspect we're gonna have to open up a lot of doors and windows oh yeah oh yeah because i mean i'm trying to think i think we have oh what's a typical typical service i if you if you don't get the power meter all that close,

Starting point is 01:23:05 which I suspect you will, but if you don't, just get everyone to benchmark at the same time. I think we have a 120 amp service, I want to say. I don't remember what's typical, but we have a little bit higher than typical. Maybe 80 amp?

Starting point is 01:23:19 I can't remember. But basically, we should be able to run almost 100 computers which would which would be like you know i don't know somewhere between 50 and 100,000 watts or something stupid like that so it's gonna be um interesting it's honestly you know parking i suspect people are going to carpool. Oh, yeah. We'll figure it out.

Starting point is 01:23:47 Yeah, people will carpool. That's okay. Or they'll park far away and then they'll ride in together. It's like anything. Yeah. We'll make it work. Yeah, it's going to be interesting. So, it's not just you.

Starting point is 01:23:58 Like, let the crew know because we need heads. Oh. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Bring the boys. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Well, yeah. It's a LAN. What do you think think well i didn't know like i didn't i haven't read the post well i was busy i

Starting point is 01:24:12 was just trying to emails you want me to do that i actually didn't mean to throw that i dropped it it was a it was a dropping with distinct dropping motion um all right sorry dan one more yeah i've actually got a land-related one here. Oh, excellent. A couple weeks ago, you talked about doing an internal LAN party. Would you ever do a retro LAN with 98-era Windows machines? Because I have over 30 LAN party-ready IBM T42 laptops with Windows 98 from 2001. Laptops.

Starting point is 01:24:43 I'm going to go with probably not um that's cool they're laptops yeah so you didn't really game much on laptops back in the day i don't think well you can yeah sure play liero what it's a good game i think i have missed speed run competitions um i bet you people do that that would be a very interesting land party i mean rule 43 i bet people you know have missed speed run 51 seconds oh yeah it's 51 seconds or 51 minutes it's probably seconds if i'm perfectly honest i think that's second it's seconds i i'm definitely watching this okay guys just just load it up on youtube hey there's an ad there's an ad for ltd the ad is gonna take longer than the yeah but it's for ltd screwdriver nice uh spoilers for mist if you haven't played it yet i i don't think

Starting point is 01:25:42 we're actually watching it i'm watching it yeah but i don't think we're actually watching it i'm watching it yeah but i don't think we're like no no we're not we're not because we don't want to we don't want to it's a good rpg on youtube the title of the video is miss speedrun 51 seconds world record and this is like the most impossible thing to wow the longest thing is waiting for the valve to turn wow oh wow you might get sick watching this they must be like freaking okay yeah they memorized that technique with the like the tape so you can press the left click faster and you just roll up the thing do you not know about this no oh yeah you put like you put like electrical tape on your click and then you just rub the tape

Starting point is 01:26:25 and it like, so you can fire faster. Like mechanical versus software engineering solutions. I know, right? It's just so interesting. Yeah. You just get auto clicker and just tell it to click. Right, but that's cheating. So is that.

Starting point is 01:26:37 No, that's not cheating. That's performance enhancing drugs. Fair play. Okay, that was really fast. It seemed like they were clicking that fast at times that was wild that was that was a heck of a ride maybe anyways okay new topic yeah what do you want to talk about i feel like i picked all the topics today haven't we only done like one i feel like we did at least two. Oh, we did one, and then we did your phone and my phone.

Starting point is 01:27:08 I don't know. There is one I'm going to want to talk about. Where is it? All right, let's do it. Where is it? Are you really going to pick that? What? The thing that you're going to pick.

Starting point is 01:27:20 Epic Games changes licenses for Unreal. All right, sure. What did you think? I thought you were going to pick something stupider. Uh-oh. Oh. Luke's summary at the top of the show was not accurate it looks like unreal licensing structure for game developers won't change yeah no that isn't what i said okay all right here we go anyways i thought i thought that was what you said i might have said it wrong that isn't what

Starting point is 01:27:40 i meant is what i'll say okay um. So we can both be right. Yeah. Cringe handshake. Next you're going to hug. It's going to be disgusting. Epic Games has announced that they will, I probably said it wrong. I don't know, whatever. Epic Games has announced that they will move to an Adobe style seat based licensing structure next year.

Starting point is 01:28:00 This also means they will begin charging developers outside of the game industry. That's the point that people are glomming on to, to be very clear. Developers outside of the game industry. Unreal Engine has been free to download since 2015 and currently only takes a 5% cut of revenue after a game built on top of it surpasses 1 million in revenue. new however the unreal the unreal is also commonly used to create detailed mock-ups in manufacturing and virtual sets in films and television shows um for example the mandalorian and game linked yeah that's true epic games has been having significant financial problems and recently laid off over 800 staff with successful subsidiaries like game developer Mediatonic, the creators of Fall Guys, being hit particularly hard. It appears that Epic has been overspending its revenue, in part due to its ongoing 2020 legal suit against Apple and Google for removing Fortnite from the digital storefronts in late 2022. Epic was likewise fined $520 million for unwanted in-game purchases in Fortnite beginning in 2017.

Starting point is 01:29:14 Oh, sorry, that's what happened in 2022. The 2020 legal suit against Apple and Google, and then in 2022 they were fined half a billion for unwanted in-game purchases. Oh, that began in 2017 got it um discussion question how do you have this many money problems and not twig that maybe you should charge disney for using your software that's hilarious um yeah pretty much um all right well good luck epic um epic's done some stuff really, and they've done some stuff really I don't like as much. But at the end of the day, I mean, I'm pro-competition.

Starting point is 01:29:51 I don't want them going anywhere necessarily. Epic Game Store might not be a big competitor for Steam, but they are one of the only even somewhat valid competitors for Steam right now. Origin and Uplay just might as well not exist yeah and like battle.net doesn't matter and come on gog gog yeah they do good in their little in their niche they do good i mean hey look balder's gate 3 is on gog if you bought balder's gate 3 on steam why ask yourself why why did you do that you should have don't just default to buying things on steam if they're on gog i would actually strongly recommend buying on there instead i

Starting point is 01:30:30 really like the gog experience i actually really like the launcher it's really good like i i actively heavily dislike you play you play is bad origin is like annoying i wouldn't say it's necessarily bad but it's pretty annoying good gog is also very good in my opinion yeah yeah i don't know um but yeah uh this it makes sense i think it's gonna suck for some people i think they're doing something relatively wise here i don't know if they would have done it if uh unity didn't just have a whole bunch of issues yeah but they kind of announced this before announcing it like they announced hey we're gonna do something like this just so you guys know and i suspect there might be collecting some feedback on how the audience reacts to it yeah um but like okay the thing too though is you've got like i was uh i've been working i

Starting point is 01:31:26 told you i've been working on my review of the big screen beyond so that's that that next gen vr headset with the the crazy micro oled displays and stuff like that and one of the things that i was trying to contextualize in the video was the cost it's really expensive by the time you buy a big screen beyond and base stations and controllers you've spent 1500 us dollars which is a f***ing lot of money but it's still i would argue closer to a consumer class device than enterprise vr headsets if you want to pick out if you want to pick up a vario vr3 for example that's going to cost you 3500 us dollars oh and you also oh i think it's like 700 a year in licensing for it but the reason that this is relevant to what we're talking about right now is one of the things that Vario

Starting point is 01:32:25 Advertises on their site actually here. I should bring this up a to show you guys And B to make sure that I'm right is if you scroll down Blah blah blah down down down Nate. It should have like native support for Down down down down down. Oh crap. Okay so click oh yeah keep going keep going keep going keep going uh blah blah yep keep going keep going vario rated computer oh my gosh it's somewhere i think we're bottoming yeah no hold on there's that there's there's a there's definitely there's definitely a thing hold on um but if i recall correctly one of the things that they call out on their site

Starting point is 01:33:05 is native support for here i can't see that complete software compatibility support for a unity unreal engine and a broad range of industrial 3d software yeah yeah okay here hold on here here uh yeah so here here this is what i'm talking about compatible with the 3d applications you already use and they're talking about use cases like designing flipping cars and so i'm looking at it going yeah how does how does this how does this make any sense that this is an industry where people can be buying 3500 headsets spending hundreds of free software or thousands of dollars on upkeep for headsets and are just getting free software that makes the whole thing work at

Starting point is 01:33:45 all and free like incredibly difficult to make extremely powerful software yeah they have a whole wing specifically for architectural visualization yeah that is obscenely good yeah there is a there's a demo that is like a french house villa thing they've been using for ages yeah i do think nuts i do think something that Epic has to figure out in the longer term is how to reconcile this new need to make money with efforts that make the software continue to be accessible to enthusiasts and to students. Because of the Apple education program thing you were talking about earlier.

Starting point is 01:34:22 Being able to use it for free at a certain level. Is really, really important. Huge investment. Hugely important. So I totally agree. It makes sense. But they got to make money. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:34:33 Because if you don't make money, then you don't exist anymore. Yeah. And then it's gone. We won't have Unreal Engine. So I think it totally, completely makes sense that they're trying to charge professionals to use it. And by and large, I think we can, and apparently Unreal is staying free for students.

Starting point is 01:34:50 Great. Yep. Fantastic. Yep. I am, of all the things Epic does, Unreal Engine, man, is sort of important, I would say. Yeah. man is sort of important.

Starting point is 01:35:03 Yeah. I would say, especially as we, as we move into an era where I think in-house engines are just going to ultimately cease to exist at some point. Like we're, we're already basically there. There are a handful that do, I mean,

Starting point is 01:35:21 CD project red rolls their own engine. I'm trying to think like who else, I mean, should they Red rolls their own engine. I'm trying to think, like, who else? I mean, should they, though? There's arguments. There's interesting arguments. Like, as far as my understanding goes. That we like the jank? Is that the argument?

Starting point is 01:35:35 No, no, no, seriously. That jank is part of the experience? You are such a Bethesda fanboy. How could you even possibly bring that argument to the... I don't actually completely disagree with that argument. Oh! I knew that argument i knew it that's not the one i was trying to make but i don't mind it sometimes it's funny okay okay come on all right anyways but my point is that uh creation uh creation engine is that what it's

Starting point is 01:36:00 called i know creation kit is the modding thing it's extremely friendly for modding which is not as far as my understanding goes true about other popular engines not as true about unity not as true about uh unreal as far i don't i don't know this this is cdpr is apparently switching to ue5 by the way um there are examples of non-major engines like that i just absolutely love as a as a as a gamer even if for a developer you know they're terrible or for development you know outside of the one game that was used that you know was made in it it makes no sense um foundation engine so that was shadow of the tomb raider apparently ballers gate 3 is made in div it makes no sense um foundation engine so that was shadow the tomb raider apparently baldur's gate 3 is made in divinity 4.0 engine which is their own engine

Starting point is 01:36:49 there you go wow uh shadow the tomb raider was built using foundation engine which was built by crystal dynamics and then used to build rise of the tomb raider as well and was enhanced by idos montreal um and that one's good that game just it just scaled yeah on everything incredibly well more cpu more fps more gpu more fps add more gpus more fps it it the game supported hdr i don't know if shadow did but rise of the tomb raider definitely supported hdr like it just it flippin did everything and it just you know how some games you turn off V-Sync and it's like, okay, tearing fest. It just, it didn't.

Starting point is 01:37:30 It just always ran great. Frame pacing was really solid. Id's another example. The engine that they built Doom Eternal in. Dude. Well, I don't know what it's called. Hold on, I'm just gonna look that up. While you look that up,

Starting point is 01:37:43 Cypher Colt in Flowpoint chat said, creation engine can't even render more than one camera yet. No mirrors, no CCTV. I don't know what it's called. Hold on. I'm just going to look that up. While you look that up, Cypher Colt in Flowpoint Chat said, creation engine can't even render more than one camera yet. No mirrors, no CCTV. Also, they have issues with like windows, all this other kind of stuff. I know. I'm not saying there isn't major, major downsides.

Starting point is 01:37:55 What I'm saying is, is a big argument is the whole creation part. Their big argument is they released these creation kits and they're like, there's a reason why there's so many mods for Bethesda games yeah id tech 7 is doom eternal man if just every shooter game was built on

Starting point is 01:38:13 id tech 7 we wouldn't need hardware upgrades honestly what games are built with id tech improvements compared to ID Tech 6. They cut out a million fewer lines. They cut out a million lines of code.

Starting point is 01:38:31 Unified HD, unifying, shadowing. You don't measure the best programmers in like positive amounts of lines of code. You measure them

Starting point is 01:38:40 in negative amounts of lines of code. This is incredible. Improved image streaming, new GPU triangle, light and occlusion culling system to not render what isn't on screen, dramatically improved compression, games using edtech 7, Doom Eternal.

Starting point is 01:38:55 Man, see, I hate that. And I know that it's really complicated. Obviously, based on that Unity and Epic are both struggling to make money in the game engine business. Obviously, I'm not going to just go to id and be like, okay, I'm going to be your new chief

Starting point is 01:39:11 engine business unit officer. Visionary. Yeah, exactly. Every game is going to be made on id tech 8 and here we go. Obviously, it's more complicated than that, and these tools must be very internal grade

Starting point is 01:39:30 if they never get released outside of these companies. But man, I wish they were. That'd be awesome. I love ID Tech 7, because that game, it runs on anything. It looks so good game it runs on anything it looks so good oh my god i don't think so good mystical said a lot of doom's benefits come from vulcan i don't think that's no that's that's not true it runs it runs great across the board yeah that runs freaking awesome across the board also there's other stuff on pc it use. On PC, it supports Vulkan rendering only, but I don't think that's actually the entire reason

Starting point is 01:40:08 because it will absolutely be running some form of Direct3D on the Xbox, and it runs great and looks great on the Xbox. Dunya Engine for Ubisoft games? I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, but does anyone like Dunya? Yeah, that's why I kind of said it that way. Oh, okay. i don't know what to tell you yeah but does anyone like denya yeah that's why i kind of said it that way oh okay i don't know anyway um all right i'm gonna let you pick another topic because oh right never mind i'm gonna tell you about our sponsors dan's

Starting point is 01:40:37 gonna pick another what a segue the show is thanks to volcanica coffee for sponsoring today's show pair your wan experience with a nice cup of joe. Volcanica Coffee sources their beans from the finest crops in the best volcanic regions from around the world. This means that each region provides distinctly different flavors and nuances to tantalize your taste buds. Their Roastmasters roast their coffee fresh every week in their state-of-the-art facility in Atlanta and typically ship out your order within one business day, so you're sure to get the freshest, roastiest coffee. and typically ship out your order within one business day, so you're sure to get the freshest, roastiest coffee. Best of all, Volcanica Coffee is family-owned,

Starting point is 01:41:11 so you know their heart, love, and dedication is infused into each and every bean. Go check them out at lmg.gg slash volcanica and use code LINUS15 for 15% off your order. That's lmg.gg slash v-o-l-c-a-n-i-c-a. Thanks to Cuddly for sponsoring today's show. Fact. Animals are cute. Unfortunate fact. There are millions of animals

Starting point is 01:41:31 in less than desirable situations that need support. Cuddly helps give animals a healthy life and a loving home by providing tools and resources to support animal welfare organizations around the world. All partners featured on Cuddly are not-for-profit or municipal agencies and have been verified to ensure that they are in good standing. You can donate to an organization or even a specific animal featured on their weekly wish page. Check them out at lmg.gg slash cuddly to learn more. That's lmg.gg slash c-u-d-d-l-y.

Starting point is 01:41:59 Your donation could help change the life of a furry friend. And thank you to our friends over at Magic Spoon for sponsoring today's show. Looking for a more health-conscious snack to munch on while listening to the podcast? Let Magic Spoon satisfy your cravings. Their keto-friendly delicious cereals have 0 grams of sugar, 13 to 14 grams of protein, and only 4 to 5 net grams of carbs per serving. And how do they do this? Magic?

Starting point is 01:42:20 No! They use a blend of monk fruit and allulose, which sweetens like sugar without increasing blood sugar levels. Milk, no milk, or water, Magic Spoon is great for any time you need a quick bite. Check them out at lmg.gg slash magicspoon and use code WAN for $5 off. Okay, so I saw the thumbnail, and it just looked, you know, standard maneuver. You gotta reach for something in the pool. I didn't realize you just kept going. Dan, can you bring up the thing

Starting point is 01:42:45 okay so why do you keep going what happened what you're still going yeah fall into a pool that's slowly i'm not falling if you're not falling why didn't you just go in if you want to know the answer why do you keep talking over me questions are more fun we don't sell swimming trunks maybe that's why we do we do sell swim trunks oh i didn't know that oh they're really good oh awesome okay so the airpod went in okay and i figured by grabbing on with my right foot and my left hand. Okay. Okay. So first of all, it was a little deeper than I thought.

Starting point is 01:43:29 Okay. So I'm like, oh, okay, this is deeper than I thought. So I, I grab on with the right foot and I'm holding on with the left hand and I'm trying to reach in as far as possible without going all the way in. I didn't want to get all the way in the pool. And then eventually you just have to. Okay. But the problem is that while I was in there i'm upside down right yeah so i have to i have to blow

Starting point is 01:43:50 bubbles out of my nose or i'm going to end up with water up my nose so because of the bubbles i couldn't see for so i couldn't i couldn't get to the airpod so what i could reach initially it was i couldn't see and I didn't get it right away. So it switched the water a bit and moved it away. So that's why I'm getting in slowly is the air pod keeps moving a bit. And I'm trying to, and I'm like, maybe if I could.

Starting point is 01:44:18 And so eventually, as you can see, I kind of go, okay, forget it. Well, I have to come up for air because I've blown out all of my air and so i'm in at this point now anyway and the quicker i get this thing the better so i come up for air and then i go um back down and i get it on the second dive that's fantastic do you

Starting point is 01:44:38 remember do you remember when we got that camera wet years ago we use like every heat generating thing we could find yep to dry it out um i i don't remember how it necessarily happened but my air pods that i use for working out if they break i'll be very sad uh were in my pocket and they went through the wash yeah and emma noticed she handed them to me and they were like wet and And I was like, oh, well, I've got this top of case mounted, very warm boy GPU. And I was like, the laziest possible way I can fix this problem is by playing video games. Dried them out, work perfectly fine. No problems. Yeah, I've actually run my AirPods through the wash before too.

Starting point is 01:45:23 That's surprisingly resilient. The problem is that my pool is saltwater chlorinated. Oh So I mean it dry water is a particular problem for electronics If people didn't put that soapy water can be too. Yeah, but if it gets really well rinsed, yeah Before it dries then it won't build up as much conductive and corroding shmoo. Yeah. So yeah, the reason I went in so slow was because I kept being about to get it

Starting point is 01:45:54 and it kept moving a little bit. That's always an annoying problem. Yeah. So I, yeah, I got it out, but one of the batteries is swollen. I can tell because the display popped off. And so Dan did a little bit of investigating and it's going to be a Linus and Dan adventure. Apparently the donor phone is arrived yesterday.

Starting point is 01:46:14 You said Dan? Today. Today. So we'll maybe do that video next week or the week after, because there's another video that's waiting in the release queue because there's footage on that phone. I didn't care. I didn't care that much about recovering the phone because I had actually backed it up about just over three weeks before this happened. So in terms of precious family memories or whatever, there was almost nothing on it. I don't know why my Google photos wasn't

Starting point is 01:46:39 syncing. I checked my account settings and set to say, I don't know. And I had stuff from backed up from that phone from a little bit before it happened, but I did lose about three weeks of photos. But like I said, it didn't really matter. There had been no major family events since then. So I didn't care. Um, but I didn't realize that I had actually shot a little intro for the, my computer died video.

Starting point is 01:47:00 Cause my computer also sprung a leak and had water damage. And I made a, or made a wait no that was a separate issue well that happened but that's not a video but the point is it died suddenly and so i i shot a clip just showing my computer's dead and so it's the intro of the video and we need it and it's on that phone so we have to at least make an attempt to get it back otherwise i'll have to do like a reenactment or something yeah yeah my computer's dead or at least i would have said that if my phone wasn't also dead yeah hopefully everything i have is dead hopefully we can do it but linus make sure you get that approved by uh luke approved yeah yeah i need to take okay luke i

Starting point is 01:47:41 need to borrow dan's time i don't know about about that. We got these, we got these quarterly goals. They're hard to do. Me too. What can I say? Yes. Actually, actually he did gave me a break. If Linus tells you to do something,

Starting point is 01:47:57 it's yes. That is actually true. Don't ever bother me again. I'm working. That is actually a rule. It's top of my sheet uh linus yes videos uh-huh anything else no there was something and i was like wait linus requested this and he was like yeah then i was like well just do it why are don't know. Why are we talking? Yeah, exactly.

Starting point is 01:48:25 It was fair though. You were following. It's fine. Exactly. So for those of you who are wondering, Luke is Dan's direct manager now. Yeah. And there has been a significant problem

Starting point is 01:48:36 with people monopolizing Dan's time because Dan is capable. Very useful. They don't understand the difference between someone's capability and someone's job um so dan has been often asked to do things that he is capable of but that are not his job so we have a new rule that before dan does anything for someone they are supposed to ask luke which if dan is allowed to work on that because dan has an actual job to do with actual KPIs and a little

Starting point is 01:49:08 bit of an interested in literally everything and wants to say yes problem it's also my fault so yeah there's some Dan in there and then Dan has been instructed anytime someone circumvents Luke to ask Luke

Starting point is 01:49:24 if that's what he's supposed to be doing to make sure that we can it's it's a training exercise right like we got to get people out of the habit of just leaning on dan to do their work is it worth going through luke to get this done yes that stops so many people it does it really does it's also good because no one wants to talk to me he's a scary man it exposes issues as well right yeah yeah yeah because sometimes like yeah visibility is good yes exactly so so that's some context for that conversation that took place just now uh do you want to pick another topic merch messages oh right why do i even ask luke why do i even put him up right i have to ask luke so i can ask dan what the next topic is am i allowed to ask him no yeah you have

Starting point is 01:50:10 to use a request there's these quarterly goals to do what can i say there's an sop for this we got work we got work to do he's tasked all day i'm sorry how about next week thursday 2 p.m that's my dan time for you no that's a thing that's literally a thing dan time is i assigned him dan time it's it's i haven't used it in ages now but it's nice to have when we first started working together there was this problem where again everyone goes to him all the time oh yeah i still have a bunch of stuff i started trying to monitor the people that were coming to his desk and I would try to intercept. But then I started figuring out that people were intercepting that by just PMing him. So I was like, we need to stop this because he can't help himself. So when people try to ask him.

Starting point is 01:50:59 It's not that bad. It's distracting because I'm trying to do work and get into a flow state. And people are like, hey, thing. And a lot of what I've had him working on is things that kind of need flow state type energy. Yep. So I'll be like, okay, what was it? 2 p.m. to 6, I think. Yeah, basically.

Starting point is 01:51:14 2 p.m. to 5. I think it was 2 p.m. to 5, okay. 2 p.m. to 5 p.m. on Thursdays, just mute everything. Okay. And just power through stuff. And you'd get a lot done. Okay. So that's Dan time.

Starting point is 01:51:23 Power through stuff. And you'd get a lot done. But it's hard to maintain because people want to book meetings at that time, including me. Sometimes I ruin it. Other things happen. It's more like, yeah, I don't have to be doing main task time. Okay. So you're saying that if I want Dan to do something for me, I should come at 2 p.m. on a Thursday. No, you can literally ask me anytime.

Starting point is 01:51:42 That is actually a rule. Yeah. I try not to bother you about things. I'm like Vance, but like... In fairness. Useless. Tech Vance. Tech Vance.

Starting point is 01:51:54 It's, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. It's getting better. All right. Okay, good. Okay, Dan, hit me. Sure.

Starting point is 01:52:03 Just landed a job as a data engineer at an it consulting firm fresh out of college what's your take on hiring fresh grads and touting them as industry experts can't help but feel imposter syndrome i mean you're some kind of expert i mean you did study it right i've had people that didn't go to school that were wildly skilled talented good at what they do i've had people that come out of school that are also the same i've had people that are experienced that are also the same i don't know i mean maybe maybe you are an expert i mean it depends on what you're consulting on, right? Like IT consulting firm could mean almost literally anything. Here's how you install Word.

Starting point is 01:52:52 Touting them as industry experts. Man, it's tough, right? What does an expert mean? Yeah. It's relative. There's sales experts. I think that's what they're called at Best Buy. Yeah, like I'm a computer expert compared to my aunt and uncle yeah and i'm a computer moron compared to you know someone like

Starting point is 01:53:11 linus torbolds or like a wendell or whatever right like it's it's all it's all relative it depends on it depends on who you're talking to and what they need help with if someone just wants if someone wants just you know basic you know network topology explain to them why they can't just have you know 12 cascading network switches then you're an expert i guarantee it um yeah it all depends i don't know maybe uh reverse dunning kruger and what would you rather it be all right are people contracting your company to get network novices yeah this is really funny uh crynex says wait i say both minuses the same way so this is a really funny thing to me and maybe it's just because of my own lived experiences having kind of an unusual name,

Starting point is 01:54:06 but when somebody corrects my pronunciation of their name, when they have a name that is, say, for example, a French name or a German name or a Spanish name or whatever else it is, I just kind of feel like it's ridiculous because I just pronounced your name correctly in English, which is the language I am speaking. The reason that I pronounce Linus Torvald's name Linus is because he is Finnish. Yeah. No, I get that. In Finland, that's how that name is pronounced.

Starting point is 01:54:46 that's how that name is pronounced here in English those letters in that order are not pronounced like that they are Linus and when you have when you have a French background so I did an exchange in Quebec for a summer and everyone over there called me Linus because in French that is how those letters in that order are pronounced. So anyone who's using a Roman alphabet, who pronounces the name correctly, according to their own language dialect of... I just think it sounds cool. What am I supposed... What am I...

Starting point is 01:55:18 What I'm going to argue with you, that you don't know how to speak your own f***ing language? Like, no, that's actually not how that works. Grammar has rules. Letters have rules and languages have rules bad ones um yeah often often bad ones but they do have rules and following the rules of the language that you speak is never is never incorrect now there are exceptions like when when, okay, someone with a Chinese name, for example, where we don't have a letter for that sound. Um, I'm not, I'm not going to argue with someone that my pronunciation of their name is, is perfectly correct because it's not, and that it takes actual practice. It takes actual training, but it, you know, if someone,

Starting point is 01:56:03 if someone, you know, if Finnish, Finnish Linus was gonna, you know, argue with me about how I pronounced his name. If I was like, yo, hi Linus, I'm gonna be like, that's ridiculous. And I've, I've actually, I've, I've never actually met him, which would be, which would be fun. Um, but I've heard that he has basically told people, yeah, I don't care. And so I wonder if he's had a very similar lived experience to me, where everyone who speaks every language

Starting point is 01:56:28 pronounces his name differently. And because it's such an unusual name, it just doesn't really matter. And there is just no like correct way. And so maybe to both of us, it just feels like a really silly thing to get hung up on. That, no, my name is Linus, not Linus. This is the whole reason why I what i mean my last name on

Starting point is 01:56:46 game linked because i just deeply don't care and the amount of times i get questions i'm like how do you pronounce it i'm like i don't care if you even remotely try to say it i'm gonna know what you're saying like anytime i'm at like a doctor's office or something where they try to like announce the next person. I'll get Luke. And I'm like, yeah, it's me. Like, whatever. I don't care. You're not mistaking me with anyone else. I know what you're trying to say. It doesn't matter. I don't know, man. There's really, I mean, people are bringing up all kinds of outliers that you know what i have to confess i i agree with you it probably matters like um so many people in mexico for example are named jesus right but i wouldn't i would never pronounce it like that right because that's ridiculous um you know jesus okay yeah yeah that that probably that probably makes a lot of sense. What was one of the other... Did they catch you?

Starting point is 01:57:47 Catch me what? Did they get you? Did they have a bunch of examples? Not that many. Okay, Terminal Chafing says La Croix is... You probably shouldn't say La Croix or something like that. Like it's obviously French. La Croix-y?

Starting point is 01:58:03 But that's an example i guess of maybe a combination of letters that doesn't really exist in that language so it's not an individual letter that doesn't exist but it's a combo that doesn't exist and obviously indicates something in the case of linus specifically it doesn't have like a a specific set of rules that is language specific. It could just be in that language and could be pronounced according to that language's rules. So I guess that's what I'm trying to say is that it doesn't really matter as long as you're following some set of rules. Whereas if you're just making it up, if you see my name and you go

Starting point is 01:58:41 Lee Neuris or something like that that just is obviously not right and it's not what was written on the page then that feels a little bit ridiculous so if someone were to see your name and go Luke Laff Frunder where they just haven't even gone to the basic effort of looking at the letters and like even making an attempt this is why i just don't care at all the success rate of people when i'm not in an area where people speak french is like uselessly low like there's actually just no point at all i don't care d3174 one says linus english has rules like learn every single word true I can't spell them I just gave up English rules are a joke we do have sucks we do have actual rules yeah except long I can't spell any word because you got weird and and

Starting point is 01:59:42 Rottweiler and and none of them make any sense i hate this language yeah yeah i know ty back says i just avoid saying names yeah but you can't just say pronouns anymore either so you're stuck with nothing anything just say hey hey yo yo yo is yeah well man when they cancel yo i'm gonna be stuck gamers how you doing gamers yes it works hey you yeah i don't think hey you is okay though actually sup yeah we have sup. I think sup is still okay. Just use grunts. I like that. That's good. Do you want another one?

Starting point is 02:00:32 Yeah, hit us with another one, Dan. I don't even remember what that question was. This one's for Luke. That's all you're going to get, unfortunately. Hey, Luke, I generally agree with your takes, and I'm a huge Bethesda fan. Besides Fallout 76. But. But. But. Maybe the but butt was coming there's the butt comes give me the butt i just have not been sucked into starfield like i have every other bethesda game yes any advice uh not really bethesda

Starting point is 02:00:57 stop agreeing on things this isn't part of the script script. No, I mean, it's very unlike any of the other games. I think the gameplay loop in all of the Elder Scrolls and all of the Fallout games of getting lost on your way to something gets completely obliterated with a game that is built around fast travel. Most of the people that I know that enjoyed fallout and elder scrolls games to their maximum amount um actually liked using fast travel as little as possible or i hiked a lot in oblivion yeah exactly yeah it's the best part or the fast travel that they would use is the mechanically built-in fast travel like v like you go to a certain point that has a vehicle that

Starting point is 02:01:45 transports you to this next point uh or there's a wizard portal or something like that not opening your map clicking on a thing and teleporting there um now you go into starfield and you literally have to fast travel everywhere and when you fast travel somewhere it usually lands you like on a landing pad that is on the location that you are going to and most of the time if you're going to go on foot somewhere and actually travel around it's just a waste of time because most of it is subpar uh procedurally generated content which is just garbage like caves that are literally just empty caves almost all of the time it's actually like hilariously dumb.

Starting point is 02:02:27 Why does this even exist? They're like, oh. Why do you keep defending this game? Planets would have caves, so we're just going to put caves. Are we going to put content in the caves? No. Is it easy to tell between the content of the caves that there's actually content in and which ones are actually empty?

Starting point is 02:02:41 No, not really. Cool. But you love it but there is fun to be extracted i don't think it's as good if i have to extract the fun i might as well play minecraft if you can log into it except the mining in starfield's really bad so that's actually not a you know um even though they start the the game starts with you doing that it's like one of the worst mechanics they have um yeah i don't know i i had more fun the further away from the main story that i got um i was like angry at the game when

Starting point is 02:03:19 i was playing the main story because in my opinion it is very poorly written the companions are all story because in my opinion it is very poorly written the companions are all horrible um i actively dislike every single one of them um i've never had a game keep defending this game i've never had a game that bothers you as much with the companions tell me tell me you're not telling me this game but you can just tell them to screw off and just go play by yourself feature you don't play the main quest because it's bad you tell all the companions to go away because they don't play any of it then at that point i don't play with the companions i don't play the main quest i just don't play it at all and you just wander the universe and it's really fun i've had a good time okay all right yeah the space battles are pretty good they're not like the best ever but they're

Starting point is 02:04:02 pretty good um there's there's been a lot of like good emergent like i landed on this one random base and it was like the classic we drilled too far into the earth and alien bugs came out thing but there was no it wasn't a quest bread so many people are sending that message that was a that was a that was a grunt message if i've ever seen one there's been hundreds of those today um you've seen the store page right go go and read the description of the bread but yeah there's a little bit of spoilers by the way maybe but not really because it's not actually a quest but um scroll down go on there you go there you go yes yes very good um if you if you clamber onto the very top of this building that's being overrun by

Starting point is 02:04:54 aliens there is a at least mine was legendary some people said they might not all be a legendary minigun and you just mow down all the aliens it It was very fun, very satisfying. And then you leave and then the game's boring again. Okay. That is such a good, like, succinct explanation of Starfield. And you said you go wander the universe, like maybe for three minutes and then you have to loading screen.

Starting point is 02:05:20 And then you have to fast travel somewhere. What would you guess is the uh sales ratio i shouldn't say sales because they're bonus bin items of the two i was just curious and i was looking at it i know what one i would get which one would you get i would get the white one i think hold on i think the dark one is selling more ratio Ratio? Three to one. It's five to one. Five to one. Five to one.

Starting point is 02:05:49 You know why I think, though? I think it's all branding. I have learned recently that branding is far more important than I want it to be. I want things to just be, you know, standalone. If they're good, then people should decide to get them because they're good and they need one of those uh but branding is so important we branded them dark mode and light mode yep honestly i didn't know the branding i looked at these and thought in my head dark mode light mode everyone's gonna pick dark mode i got that without even knowing that was the one i think the white one's really pretty yeah i like the white one um uh one of our one of our most successful

Starting point is 02:06:32 um like clothing products in terms of just like uh like like consistency is actually our premium joggers and the reason they're called that is not because they're better than our other joggers. We don't have other joggers, but it's because we got them in hand, realized they felt really premium. And that- They do. And that our pricing was not going to be competitive

Starting point is 02:06:59 with basic joggers at Walmart because it's a much nicer product. And so in the two hours before that, when show went live, when we launched it, I added the word premium to the description. And I think that the sales of that product have been a direct reflection of just like that word,

Starting point is 02:07:18 just the consistency that it has enjoyed over the last little while. So expect to see a little bit more branding, I guess. To be fair, a lot of the branding in the store has been like, like we literally called the multi-nap shirt, the multi-nap shirt. Yeah, I know. We literally called the screwdriver, the screwdriver. Maybe we've taken a too engineering driven approach

Starting point is 02:07:44 to product naming. A little bit. I'm not going to lie. to product a little bit i'm not gonna lie i was a little bit disappointed when i saw it was literally just called multi-nap shirt bread plushy apparently we've learned nothing this time i think it might be fair it'll just devolve into product i think product 782 i think the premium name for this would have just been bread by bread bread don't even call it a plushie just call it bread freshly baked bread oh comes with a little secret pocket

Starting point is 02:08:14 in it oh oh pass the bread dude but yeah I don't know it's late Starfield I i have i have i'm never gonna do it and i'm preemptively saying i'm never gonna do it because i know linus was just gonna tell me that i'm never gonna do it but i have the skeleton for like what i would write for a script for a review of starfield you're never gonna do that yeah exactly um and it's like really long

Starting point is 02:08:42 i bet really long so long that you're never going to do it. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I could go on that rant, but for much, much, much, much, much, much longer. Cool. Let's move on. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:08:56 Well, it's another merch. Oh, wait. No, it isn't. Okay. Apple's first gen edition watches are obsolete. First gen edition watches are obsolete. So they were available for anywhere from $10,000 to $17,000 with 18 karat gold cases. Now, as I recall, one of the most laughable things about them

Starting point is 02:09:18 was that the 18 karat gold was a plating as opposed to an actual solid case. gold was a plating as opposed to an actual solid case uh this was the this this was it was only available as part of their first gen series zero apple watch that was released in 2015 and they have officially been added to apple's obsolete products list these watches already stopped receiving os updates way back in 2018 and now they will no longer be eligible for service or repairs from apple's stores or authorized service providers it is unclear how many gold edition watches apple sold but known purchasers include uh several celebrities such as beyonce uh kanye west uh excuse me is it yay west now i guess i don't know ye i don't know um don't

Starting point is 02:10:06 pronounce it incorrectly there's rules katie perry or i mean caddy because that's not how katie is spelled um and drink and drake no that's drake that's pronounced like that um can i just say lol like this is the yeah like called it um that would be pronounced lol even even apple even apple seems to have figured out how laughable it was to spend that kind of money on something that was not to spend jewelry money on something that was not, to spend jewelry money on something that was going to receive consumer electronics product support and therefore have consumer electronics longevity. Who could have possibly seen this coming? What I didn't see coming was how quickly Apple

Starting point is 02:10:57 would abandon that first generation product. They have, it's funny, I got called out for this recently and I forget what I was talking about. Maybe it was M one Mac books or something. Okay. There was like a hair that is like on my nose. Oh, it's the worst sometimes when they don't want to come off. Yeah. Um, I forget what product it was, but I was talking about some Apple product. And I went, yeah, Apple has this history of launching a product line, treating the first set of users as basically expendable beta testers. Yeah, they're clearly enthusiasts who will just come back to us no matter how we treat

Starting point is 02:11:38 them, not providing their overall really excellent level of software support to these people. And then everyone just kind of forgetting about it. Like I got called out for making that prediction, but I think that's a super valid prediction at this point. How many years of software updates did the first generation iPad get? Hold on, hold on. iPad, hold on. Uh, iPad generation. No, I thought it was, or was it number two number there was some ipod there's some ipad that lasted like forever the ipad 2 god support flipping forever uh let me see if i can find uh like i there's like a timeline where you can see yeah yeah here here here here here uh wikipedia something something oh buddy can you just okay here we go here we go here we go

Starting point is 02:12:26 apple vision so uh apparently that's what you were talking about at the time okay whoa ipad first gen like what and then ipad 2 got all these years of software support and like still worked for a very, very long time. And since then, it's been pretty good. Like we're getting, you know, support. Oh, wait, no, hold on. Hold on. No, no, this isn't support. Crap. This was how long it was on sale. So that's part of it is that the iPad 2 was on sale for like three years. Dang it. No, that's not the chart I was looking for. It's a weird chart too, to be honest. Yeah, no, that's, no, that's not the chart i was looking for it's a weird chart too to be honest yeah no that's no that's that is the kind of chart i'm looking for except i'm looking for the colors the uh the software support version of that uh yeah it's kind of it's kind of like it's kind of like this

Starting point is 02:13:20 but for ipads so you can see the 2007 iphone yeah that only got support for like two versions of ios and then you've got all of a sudden you get into like oh okay no let's do four versions of ios oh you know what i mean screw it why don't we do like five for the five s um so it really just you can kind of get lucky with apple or you can get unlucky and one of the ways to get unlucky is to be one of their most enthusiastic customers and buy a first generation product in a new category from them or just by not staying up all night that's an old reference what don't know if anyone's gonna get that do you get that dan he wasn't paying attention. He has work to do. Staying up all night. Nobody knows what you're talking about.

Starting point is 02:14:09 Explain like I'm five. That's the song from Pharrell. From what? I'm up all night to get lucky. I'm up all night to get lucky. So it was a bad reference. I don't think anyone in the chat got it either. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:14:23 People will know it now. Absolutely terrible. Yeah. It was a Daft Punk collab. chat got it either. Yeah. People will know it now. Absolutely terrible. Yeah. It was a Daft Punk collab. You heathen. Yeah. But he's the one that says it. Yeah. What do you mean you heathen?

Starting point is 02:14:32 He said it's a Pharrell song. Oh, whatever. This man's forgetting. Hey, here we go. Thanks for playing chat. Tomb Raider canceled. Oh, of course it was no key. So timestamp guy to the the rescue so first generation ipad

Starting point is 02:14:49 there you go that's it second wow what the crap i remember just marveling at how long that flipping thing got software support it was crazy and these days it's like that too man like that's wild one two three four that's good six seven seven versions of ios on the fifth gen ipad um and so yeah it was just it was bewildering to me that people were uh not believing me or like like sort of challenging that and i never said it will happen i just said it's a concern yeah it's it's a major concern for me is that we might get kind of a half-baked first one i don't think it was i don't think it was m silicon or maybe it was before launch before we knew that it was actually good or something like that like i just was concerned about it and so you know it turned

Starting point is 02:15:42 out to be a huge problem for anyone who ponied up $10,000 to $15,000 for a golden version of the Apple Watch. So, yeah, good job, y'all. What else we got today? I've got a off-document topic that I think is only off-document because it landed, like, after the document was made. Tell you what. this is fresh why don't we finish all the ones we teased at the beginning and then we can do your off topic or off document or whatever okay what do we still got uh i don't remember does anyone remember the topics we teased at the beginning of the show because i sure don't uh was it the gpu thing did i call that out oh you don't think that's cool it's stupid why well

Starting point is 02:16:28 why don't you tell the people about it and we'll let them decide okay graphics card with integrated ssd asus is reportedly set to launch its version of the rtx 4060 ti weird sentence asus has determined that certain graphics cards which don't fully utilize all 16 lanes of the PCIe interface can efficiently allocate the remaining lanes for SSD support. ASUS has therefore created a variant of the 4060 Ti with an integrated SSD slot in order to take advantage of the remaining bandwidth. The PCB's design enables the storage to be directly attached to the graphics card's cooler. This means that it not utilizes its gpu as an m.2 drive adapter but also harnesses like yeah that doesn't matter based on internal demonstrations the ssds integrated with the 4060ti were operating at temperatures approximately 10 degrees c lower than they were capable of no one cares about that part

Starting point is 02:17:20 yeah is this not cool for a small form factor well i thought it's cool for a small form factor yeah but if you're a small form factor then why wouldn't you just keep your ssd flush to the motherboard have multiple i mean what do you mean okay adding expandability small form i will admit i did not think of the small form factor element oh that's the only element the rest of it's dumb 100 agree yeah we're on board there okay all right no but for small form factor i think it's actually kind of sick okay all right okay all right okay okay all right um got him all right yeah you know what you know what got straight up got him straight up got him so we can both be right nice stop it stop it this is awful

Starting point is 02:18:16 oh my goodness i mean, so reasons not to do it, people are asking. You know, if you just have most motherboards with a 16x slot and any kind of meaningful expansion beyond that, we'll have a secondary slot that will run at 8x so they'll just bifurcate um if you populate that slot so you could easily just put an ssd carrier in that uh but in the case of a small form factor build where you can't there is no other slot to reallocate these lanes to yeah i could see it making sense to put an M.2 slot there. Not even necessarily for a drive. Where is it?

Starting point is 02:19:12 Can't find it. Dang it. Well. Okay, no, seriously, I have to take this home with me. So I need it. Is that the thing that was on the table? Yeah. Did you put it on the ground by any chance?

Starting point is 02:19:29 It's in the box. Oh, it's in this box? Yeah, you put it back in the box. I couldn't even see it. I didn't know he did that. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's a different thing. It's in an ESD bag.

Starting point is 02:19:38 Not this kind of ESD bag, a silver one. Okay, this is a problem. Where the devil did I put it? Don't want to run another topic or no okay all right oh it was in another more different part of his bag yeah it's a big backpack what can i say that's true uh okay here we're gonna go to linus cam um this is a great example of something that you can do with an m.2 slot that is not running an m.2 ssd so in this case i'm still using it for storage but this is a little m.2 carrier board and it's got a u.2 port on it this is not like having a pcie card with a sata port

Starting point is 02:20:17 on it because that has a sata controller that has that has logic on it this has no logic in fact oh man yeah i can see it, but you guys can't because it's front lit instead of back lit, and the light's there. But you can actually see right through this board. There is nothing to it. It is basically just lanes. Phone flashlight?

Starting point is 02:20:39 No, it's phone. Oh, yeah, that would actually work really well. You've got two. Yeah. Got to pick one. This one. Soon it'll be the well. You've got two. Yeah. Gotta pick one. This one. Soon it'll be the wing. Always choose note nine.

Starting point is 02:20:50 There, so you guys may be able to just, hello? See right through this, there you go. Look how simple this board design is. It's just wires, essentially, because U.2 is just M.2, but in this kind of uh whatever mini sas hd or whatever whatever this connect sff something uh it's in this connector uh instead of just being uh uh fingers

Starting point is 02:21:15 on the end of a board so because m.2 is just a pcie by slot, that's all it is. And because U.2 is the same thing, just a PCIe by 4 slot, then you can also convert an M.2 slot to a full-sized PCIe by 4 slot and put a card in it. So one of the things that we did in the 1U gaming systems that are finally done

Starting point is 02:21:41 is we used, because they're're one u there's no room to install slots so we use an m.2 to run a 10 gig networking card pcie by four why not so conceivably i you could use this back of the graphics card i'm going to call it a pcie slot instead of an m.2 slot to run a riser or run a cable somewhere or run an extension and then yeah you could run you could run anything anywhere so you could run like a capture card that was a big problem we had when we were trying to build capture pcs in the early days of the company is you couldn't have a gpu and a capture card in an itx motherboard whereas m.2 didn't exist at the time so if you could just run your capture card with an extension from somewhere else and just kind of bolt it to the back of the

Starting point is 02:22:30 back of the case then all right okay all right you know what i am fully converted on this one yeah i think they're cool i just think if you get one of these and you're not doing a small form factor pc like you're you're actually just doing it wrong. I also wouldn't really pay a lot extra for it. And I feel like this is going to be one of those things that just by merit of being low production run. It's going to be expensive. Yeah, it's going to be considerably more expensive and will not make a ton of sense.

Starting point is 02:22:59 And you should just get an MATX motherboard if you have more cards you want to plug into your system or something. But okay. I still even like just the drive angle though but anyways uh was that all the announcement topics you need more drives though maybe no apparently we also talked about the youtube uh mobile ad changes okay youtube youtube youtube which is uh the correct pronunciation in Estonian. Yes. YouTube is changing how ads are presented on mobile devices by replacing the creator's product shelf with ads,

Starting point is 02:23:36 which it says will help creators earn more revenue from ads. The products from the product shelf will instead move to the video description youtube says that creators will be able to tag products and direct viewers to the shop button which will display tagged products and their prices like ltd store products our discussion question is would it help if google just admitted that they're also doing this for themselves rather than solely pitching it based on benefits to creators i actually don't have that's how you strong feelings about this um if there are benefits to creators they should market on benefits to creators so i get is this the new way it i mean it's all blanked out so it's right maybe this this is an ad and this was

Starting point is 02:24:24 the old way with the products or you click shop and then this i'm actually not 100 sure what i'm looking at here that might even be a step one step two kind of situation i don't have yeah i don't have a lot of uh note when an ad isn't displayed hold on what was this the product shelf may still appear okay so there could be an ad or there could be a product shelf. I don't have really strong feelings about this because I have YouTube premium and I don't really interact with these ads.

Starting point is 02:24:50 So I don't know how likely I am to click on. I mean, I wouldn't see them anyway. Where do you see the shop stuff? I'd love to hear from other creators. I think so. That's what I would love to hear is like, particularly when they made that change to shorts um i i had no real context for why it was so important that people were not able to put links

Starting point is 02:25:12 on their shorts and all of a sudden they had to you know go link to bio kind of like instagram we don't make a significant amount of our revenue on shorts but i we heard from some shorts heavier creators that those links were a significant amount of their revenue and they were worried about supporting themselves without it. So this is one of those cases where, yeah, I'd love to hear in the comments, like, is this a big deal or not?

Starting point is 02:25:33 Let us know. Yeah. Okay. Can we jump to my off document topic? I don't know. Is it AI? No. No, you'll care about this 100%.

Starting point is 02:25:46 I guarantee it. Let's go. Genetic tester 23andMe hacked data as being sold on the dark web. The first amount that was handed, apparently more than half of the company's 14 million customers. We're using password as their password?

Starting point is 02:26:04 No. No, okay. That's's a that's an i think an estimation or at least a claim right now uh because the entire amount of them was not just automatically leaked onto the interwebs um because they are trying to sell it i believe buyers could acquire 100 profiles for $1,000 or as many as 100,000 profiles for $100,000 because of cost scaling. A bunch of the leaked data that was leaked

Starting point is 02:26:36 to prove that it was real was specifically on Ashkenazi Jews, which has people highly concerned about some of the motivations behind the person who hacked the data. There are other people saying that that might just be designed to draw attention, which it sure definitely has because it's in the headline of like all of the articles that are about this so i don't know if it's actually like specifically an attack there or if it was just to get eyeballs on it because they want people buying the data so the more people that know that it's available um i'm not 100 sure what the tactic is uh but

Starting point is 02:27:21 100% sure what the tactic is. But yeah. Can I just say like. You called it. I am. You were way ahead on this one. I am so. I don't know if you're going to reference it or not.

Starting point is 02:27:37 I know what you're. Angry at my mother. Yep. Wasn't sure. I f***ing told her. Don't do this. this is not your data actually it's our data comrade i wasn't expecting a joke on like a very sincere moment. That's my whole jam. I know.

Starting point is 02:28:09 Trust me, bro. You got me pretty good on that one. Sorry. Okay, keep going. It's a very serious moment. I don't know. Maybe I'll just read the email oh are you sure

Starting point is 02:28:30 sure why not see if I can find it yeah here it is I've been deciding whether to send this or not it might not affect whether you decide to use the genetic test you got for Christmas, but these tests are not well regulated, and we've only begun to explore the way that the data in them will be used by private companies and government entities.

Starting point is 02:28:55 I feel like I needed to speak up. Some reading material, and I linked to a PopSci.com article. 23andMe is probably a terrible idea. It's worth a read. When you do any one of these genetic tests it doesn't just affect you and your privacy it affects anyone related to you including me helping them build out their database their privacy policy may prevent them from selling individualized data at this time but we've seen many times that silicon valley companies will

Starting point is 02:29:20 start out with robust privacy policies and slowly chip away at them over time. We've also seen acquisitions and mergers that do not preserve these protections. The issue is that unlike an interest in cars or whatever, your genetic information doesn't change, so this data is given up permanently. I'm not a tinfoil hat wearer by any stretch of the imagination, but given what is already accessible to advertisers, insurance agencies, etc., I would rather pay for you to have a genetic test done in a medical slash diagnostic setting if you really want to know. That way the data will at least have a chance of being safe. F***ing idiot. Actually though.

Starting point is 02:30:14 this affects you and everyone in your family tree and thank god we're in canada where we don't have private health insurance but if you are an american and you are doing these genetic tests you are not just potentially screwing yourself. You are potentially screwing over every one of your descendants' ability to get health insurance, for example. Pre-existing conditions, anyone? Yeah. Yeah. There's a post from a year ago on Reddit

Starting point is 02:30:40 that was posted by Handyman at Floatplane Chat. You can never delete your personal information from 23andMe. I've've tried and then it's a a uh i think an email response from 23andme we received your request to permanently delete your 23andme account and personal information the following apply when you submit your deletion request if you choose to consent to 23andme research by agreeing to an applicable 23andMe research consent document, any research involving your genetic information or self-reported information that has already been performed or published prior to our receipt of your request will not be reversed, undone, or withdrawn.

Starting point is 02:31:16 Any samples for which you gave consent to be stored or biobanked will be discarded 23andme and the contracted genotyping laboratory will retain your genetic information date of birth and sex as required for compliance of legal obligations pursuant to the federal clinical laboratory uh improvement amendments of 1988 and california laboratory regulations oh my goodness uh 23 and me will retain limited information related to your deletion request such as your email address and account deletion this part totally makes sense account deletion request identifier as necessary to fulfill your request that's so you can prove that you did it that's actually totally reasonable uh for the establishment extra exercise or defense of legal claims. Yeah, exactly. Um, and as otherwise permitted, required by applicable law.

Starting point is 02:32:05 Okay, guys, I feel like I'm having a wake up sheeple moment here. People are like insurance companies in the U S can't discriminate against preexisting conditions anymore. Huh? Okay. Because legal protections prevent companies from doing stuff.

Starting point is 02:32:23 Like, are you even serious right now? Change at some point. Um, yeah, we can't count on laws to stay the same and people are like how much of this is fear-mongering though this is not fear-mongering this is real this is now it literally just happened all the a bunch of information just leaked and is now purchasable on the internet some of it leaked and some of its purchase purchasable on the internet and the thing is that like you can't we can't predict the consequences we don't know exactly and this is this is not what if what if you have a pre-existing

Starting point is 02:32:53 condition yeah this is not far-fetched you guys what if you have a pre-existing condition and someone that you want to i don't know i don't want to go and people are talking about okay well yeah but like to get health insurance you already need to do a blood test anyway it's like yeah but hold on a second now it's not just a blood test there's a ton of stuff that you can't tell from a blood test but you could tell from having a detailed family tree right like there could be a condition that there could just be it could just be a numbers game. Maybe they have a family tree for you. They have, because they have all this useful genetic data

Starting point is 02:33:29 that they can link you to a whole bunch of people who, oh yeah, man, almost no one in this family lives over 60. No life insurance for you. They don't even have to care why. They don't have to find a specific condition. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Harry T underscore T.

Starting point is 02:33:50 Not even pre-existing. You might have markers for stuff you might get. Yeah. Something they couldn't pick up in a blood test. This is a genetic test. You'd have to... I mean, look how angry people were over things like mandatory drug testing in the workplace

Starting point is 02:34:07 how was it ever even thinkable to submit your genetic information yeah I'm not trying to be all I told you so but I sent that email in December of 2019 this momentum didn't have to build I told you so, but I sent that email in December of 2019. This momentum didn't have to build.

Starting point is 02:34:33 This is not fear mongering. The for sale post says tailored ethnic groupings, individualized data sets, pinpoint origin estimationsations i don't know what this means but haplogroup details phenotype information photographs links to hundreds of potential relatives and boast crucially raw data profiles 100 profiles for a thousand bucks thousand profiles for five thousand bucks ten thousand profiles for twenty thousand bucks and a hundred thousand profiles for a hundred thousand bucks on On offer are DNA profiles of millions, ranging from world's top business magnets

Starting point is 02:35:08 to dynasties often whispered about in conspiracy theories. Each set of data also comes with corresponding email addresses. For bulk purchases exceeding 10,000 profiles, we offer the flexibility of incremental payments to ensure trust during transactions. Wow. Wild. of incremental payments to ensure trust during transactions wow wild yeah all right ah okay i mean i don't know if i could have explained it any more clearly than i already did so neat um clearly than I already did. So neat.

Starting point is 02:35:46 Um, after dark shift of tone, speaking of dystopian bull deep fake, tick tock scams continue to play social media. A scam video, uh, recently appeared on tick tock featuring an extremely convincing deep fake of Mr. Beast announcing

Starting point is 02:36:05 an alleged iPhone 15 giveaway. The video does have some tells that it's a fake. The lip syncing is noticeably off and it lacks the more elaborate production value of typical Mr. Beast content. But regardless, the effect is realistic enough that it could easily fool an unwary user. And you know what is kind of interesting about it being mr beast specifically is that he goes out of his way to have lower production values because he feels like higher production values are too slick which makes it easier to deep fake him because you don't have to have a super crystal clear perfect it's harder to pixel peep some lower resting even knowing Jimmy having seen him in person this is pretty convincing to me Like, whoa.

Starting point is 02:37:06 I listened to it. It didn't sound like him. Sure, but that's a matter of time. Oh, yeah. Given how much... That's the thing that keeps getting me is the voices are... They have like underlying accents, which is interesting. Given how people are like, clearly fake, it's emotionless, bro. His head movements don't match the conversation

Starting point is 02:37:25 guys guys guys guys i'm not looking at that i'm looking at the convincingness of the replacement there's also a wild difference in and maybe you have a better actor maybe you're perfect and you would have got it anyways but there's a wild difference and this has been proven in the amount of people that can recognize ai when they're told that it's AI first versus people or whatever I know, um, versus people that can afterwards. You mean can before they were told? Yes.

Starting point is 02:37:54 Sorry. Yes. Yeah. Big difference. Big difference. And the audio is a pretty solid tell, but sure. Um,

Starting point is 02:38:04 that's if, if that gets better at the kind of rate that video has, I'm scared, man. Similar scam videos have surfaced featuring celebrities like Tom Hanks apparently selling fake dental plans and CBS anchor Gayle King selling a sketchy weight loss product on Instagram. Another scam used deep-faked BBC anchors to introduce elon musk who supposedly had an investment opportunity many corporations have enacted watermarking

Starting point is 02:38:31 and metadata tags to ensure that ai created content is clearly labeled as such but recent studies have shown that current watermarking systems are easily subverted through simple methods like adjusting brightness or adding Gaussian blur. Gaussian, sorry. That's the correct pronunciation in English. No, I was making a joke. Gaussian blur is correct. There's rules.

Starting point is 02:38:55 It's also easy to add AI watermarks to human-authored videos and images. Our discussion question is, how do we best protect the people being targeted by these kinds of scams, like less tech literate, young people, the elderly? The answer is is we cannot yeah i i was gonna say i honestly don't know i used to have strats for a lot of the old stuff um i don't know i don't know either i got i got nothing man nothing let's do my show after dark. Let's do some merch messages.

Starting point is 02:39:28 Maybe all of the hilarious people in our community buying bread will make me feel better. You guys are buying a lot of bread. Well, it's ridiculous, right? Because they spent $ five thousand dollars on bread like i just don't even really know what to tell you at this point oh shoot what now is your bread not squishy enough no i have to do sign in things oh all right nice nice get that 2fa all All right, Dan, hit me. Sure, sure. Let's see what we got here.

Starting point is 02:40:11 Hi, LLD. Treating myself for my birthday. I'm interested in your thoughts on the Kaleidoscape. Kaleidoscape system? The picture quality is amazing, but the hardware is very expensive for what it is. Have you seen this system before? Kaleidoscape? Kaleidoscape. It's like... What the system before? Kaleidoscape. Kaleidoscape. It's like. What the devil is a Kaleidoscape?

Starting point is 02:40:31 It's like a super high-end Netflix Plex thing. Oh, I know this thing. You have to get like, you have to get like a player. Like you have to have their hardware. I've seen these in like some really expensive houses. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, I think, I think you have to buy the hardware you first you have to find a

Starting point is 02:40:46 dealer oh yeah so you have to buy the hardware and then you have to buy the movies for it and they're drm locked to the hardware like you don't you don't own that blu-ray forever like i think it only plays on this thing hold on how much does this bloody thing cost i can't remember they are they don't tell are super expensive. But if I remember correctly, you... I don't tell you, but you can buy it at Best Buy? What was I... Oh, that's a different system I'm thinking of then.

Starting point is 02:41:14 I was... Yeah, it might be this one. It might be a different one. I think there's other stuff like this. But one of the ones that I was looking at, you could get theatrical releases before they were available on home video. And what else?

Starting point is 02:41:29 I found out about this when I was looking at these video HDR tone mapping boxes that this company makes that are just a computer, but with some special software. What the f***? Right, right, right, right. It costs way more for storage 25 grand for

Starting point is 02:41:48 the 88 terabyte one which is freaking or then that's hard drives you can get 31 terabyte ssd for 25 grand as well um yeah i can't holy crap. I have a hard time imagining having enough money that something like this would make sense to me. Why does it make sense? What is it? How could it? What does it do? For complex installations that require integration with control systems or lighting, we recommend you buy from a local dealer that can assist with installation. Crestron.

Starting point is 02:42:20 The Crestron system in your house? You put one of these? I forget how it works. um okay restaurant system in your house you put one of these i forget how it works movies are downloaded to a terra movie server in your home and played back on strato movie players throughout your home so you have a server which that's you know fine enough who doesn't have a home server this is slash s i'm kidding um but yeah so you have the server and then it plays back on the on the player and i forget how much the players are. Every four...

Starting point is 02:42:47 Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. The ultimate 4K system includes every 4K movie available at the time of shipment preloaded onto two Terra Prime 88 terabyte movie servers along with one Stratoc movie player. What the f***? 88 terabyte movie servers along with one strato c movie player what the because you get every video every blu-ray ever i guess so i don't even want that i'm trying to remember i'm trying to remember if you have to like if you lose if you have to pay a subscription or not maybe you don't i'm not sure does anyone know anything about these i don't even like want to oh don't be a hater i mean at least i'm a hater we're learning we're learning nope i'm hating is there anything else like it or is this the one because i definitely learned about something like this at some point yeah i've seen these systems as well but i don't

Starting point is 02:43:42 know of what they're called They're so expensive and ridiculous. This is great. CH5609 says, quote from another site, The new TerraPrime solid state is the only dedicated movie server with two and a half gig Ethernet and data center grade solid state drives, enabling the fastest downloads and the most simultaneous movie playbacks. I beg to differ. I'm pretty sure I have a dedicated movie

Starting point is 02:44:06 server that has 10 gigabit Ethernet and also has data center. Actually, I took data center grade drives home. Is that where those went? Were those the SSDs? What were we doing with them? Were those the SSDs? Nothing. I got yelled at for putting them in the WANSO server. Which one? The

Starting point is 02:44:23 P4500s? No, those are the actual expensive ones Yeah, I took those home Because they have a compatibility issue With Epic platforms And we're almost all Epic now I should tell Taron Why? I don't know if that's allowed

Starting point is 02:44:39 He bought the snacks, he bought the drive I bought the snacks Not Linus the employee Lin bought the drive i bought the snacks no not linus the employee the company owner might have and i don't think that's how company property works um did you sign them out yeah then it's totally fine i don't think so i signed them out and it's for a video yeah it's for the content it's even better i didn't know it's for a video all right you might have got me there i don't know if i made a video about it. But he signed him out. That's good enough.

Starting point is 02:45:06 I talked about them in a video. We've had a problem lately of infrastructure videos not being made. That's true. We have had that. In all seriousness, though, my home server is not just a home server. We also do stuff there. Yeah, I wonder why. Well, that way it can be there.

Starting point is 02:45:23 Just in case I need it. Whatever, man. that way it can be there just in case i need it whatever man uh the point is mine is better than this oh yeah no not that the other thing the the server um i honestly think that stuff like this exists i don't even i don't even think this is man i have so much more capacity than this too this thing sucks stuff like this exists. I don't even think this is a hot take. Man, I have so much more capacity than this, too. This thing sucks. Stuff like this exists so that some contractor that someone's giving basically a blank check to to make a crazy home theater set up for some crazy rich person's place can sell them this and mark it up

Starting point is 02:45:55 even more than it's already marked up. No, you've got only a fraction of it, Luke. It's for all the crazy rich person's multiple places. Okay. I didn't see them in normal houses, Luke. I saw them in crazy expensive houses. I had a really... Did you see them in any boats?

Starting point is 02:46:13 I'm not going to name anybody. I bet you it's on at least one boat. I might have been on a boat that had one of these. I'm not telling that story on the WAN Show. I'm not going to name anyone here. Do it. telling that story on the way i i'm not gonna name it i'm not gonna name anyone here but i was talking to a a sales department for a company that makes super high-end displays and we're not gonna name anyone okay okay um yeah and what they said to me shouldn't have been surprising

Starting point is 02:46:43 but it was and that was that you know, the typical customer for this is not buying just one. And I was like, oh, I mean, that makes sense. Because obviously your place in the Hamptons would have to have the same movie watching experience as your boat. And which would have to have the same experience as your you know summer penthouse in new york yeah exactly yeah um overlooking the park yeah so for like a week yeah i'm just trying i'm just trying to figure out how this works so movies like are these are these movies that are in theaters right now or like shrek the third yeah definitely no that's new new 4k arrivals this is new okay don't be like that it's not helpful there's a gran turismo what the heck

Starting point is 02:47:32 are you kidding me that's not a movie that's a video game the audience loves it okay we've been through like tomb raider it's too obscure luke what do you mean it's like two weeks ago no the tomb raider is too obscure wow is michael cera just like killing it right now or what like he's in this he's in this he was pretty weak in barbie i think what yeah no he played his character oh maybe his acting was fine i don't know oh yeah his character was pretty uninteresting i think it was supposed to be it was alan didn't exist at all i think the movie would have been that's the point yeah but alan was like uh so so okay our generation never experienced alan alan was you know how there's so many in jokes for the kids who grew up with like barbie

Starting point is 02:48:25 toys as like a relevant toy alan was a joke for the kids before our generation who remember that weird stupid f***ing alan thing oh that like went away immediately oh yeah okay he was he was irrelevant because he was irrelevant okay yeah no no that's the whole point i feel like he should have been in like even less of it then but he was the awkwardness is the point okay yeah all right i don't necessarily think that he did a bad job of the role i just like then we can agree We have an accord A Honda accord I don't know where I was going with that Me neither I mean this seems like a lot of

Starting point is 02:49:13 But at least we agree New movies We're both right So yeah exactly Don't make us do it again Gonna turn into lemon grab over here Or at least fairly new. Yeah, maybe.

Starting point is 02:49:27 But a lot of things go to online availability pretty quick these days. Yeah, I just can't tell if any of this is theatrical or not. This is just HD, but it's Romeo. Who made Barbie again? Warner Brothers, I think. Warner Brothers. Did they have an online thing? Yeah, HBO whatever. Whatever it's called now is their thing i think don't quote me on any of this oh yeah warner

Starting point is 02:49:51 bros discovery and yeah it's just called um whatever it's called now the whatever hbo go used to be all right well that's the thing that exists so cool why don't we do another merch message what is one thing that you grew up doing that you still do but get dirty looks from people when you do it buying it etc uh i still collect pokemon cards and get weird looks from other quote unquote adults i mean that's actually kind of surprising to be honest yeah who's gonna give you a weird look we have money for it you could be buying it for a kid yeah exactly that's weird it's weird that they're giving you a weird look i mean it depends it depends on like your demeanor when you're buying

Starting point is 02:50:33 it it can be pretty clear that someone's buying something for themselves about it but then if you're if you're giddy about it you're probably in a place where you know what you're buying rather than just like booster packs in what in which case what are they doing in there then yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um you're right we're both right yeah um does he hear dan just dying every time we do it i don't know if his mic's open every time but we can hear him um oh man i'm trying i'm trying to think like there's definitely stuff like that some people don't even think adults should play video games but i don't you know i don't care i'm gonna play video games yeah he's talking about like seeing though i mean i'm trying

Starting point is 02:51:20 to think like even like the go-karts like when the kids and i are ripping around in the neighborhood that's definitely not something that i should be doing as an adult, but pretty much everyone I see is like, yeah. Yeah. Um, I don't get that reaction from like a pretty much anyone ever. I don't know.

Starting point is 02:51:34 No one cares. I think, I think this might be a situation where like maybe they are self-conscious about doing it. Cause they're like, I'm an adult. I shouldn't be into Pokemon. It could also be a community thing.

Starting point is 02:51:45 Maybe. Like maybe they live in a community that's maybe more, more aged. And so, you know, it could be something as simple as, you know, wearing,

Starting point is 02:51:54 wearing headphones in casual conversation, I think is pretty normalized under 40. Yeah. But if you live somewhere where, you know, pretty much everyone is over, over 60 know maybe having headphones on the rude kids are doing so uh maybe it's just maybe it's that kind of thing but i just find a lot less people care about you and what you're doing that i think people kind of realize yeah i mean the reality of it is that if you're doing that I think people kind of realize. Yeah. I mean, the reality of it is that if you're just somebody I pass on the street,

Starting point is 02:52:27 you are nobody and nothing to me. Yeah. So like, don't worry about it. And if you feel differently about that, and why OB, I don't know what to tell you, man.

Starting point is 02:52:37 I'm like, you're never going to see nobody and nothing to you. You're probably never going to see those people that looked at you weird when you bought those Pokemon cards. So screw them. Who cares? Who cares what they you weird when you bought those Pokemon cards. So screw them. Who cares? Who cares what they think? Yeah.

Starting point is 02:52:47 Yeah. Buy those Pokemon cards or don't. Yeah. Yeah. Why are people judging people? It's not cool. Yeah. Leave them alone.

Starting point is 02:52:58 Okay. Here's something. Here's something. I have no problem with crying. And I saw some super toxic stuff on Twitter about like men shouldn't cry and I would never date a man who cries or whatever

Starting point is 02:53:12 and I'm kind of sitting here going okay well enjoy your you know whatever thing that you've got going on there. I hope you don't want them to communicate as well yeah neat good luck with that. I don't want to know when things are bad yeah exactly head sand that's the new push-ups let's go actually very good for your shoulders yeah

Starting point is 02:53:36 what's up next i would love to see a piece on how your cameras evolved from ncix to now and why you chose those cameras. Oh, I can just do that now. I'm planning my own indie video slash podcast company and would like to avoid the obvious pitfalls. Red. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't call the reds a pitfall. I can speak at length justifying the red purchase.

Starting point is 02:54:04 We learned a lot oh yeah we learned a lot about just you know production workflows and huge infrastructure improvements happened at that time to be able to handle the footage which is still helpful today which we still use now that so we we got ahead of what we needed at the time at our scale but now that we've scaled up we use a lot of the same processes and a lot of the same infrastructure um or or very similar infrastructure uh yeah so we start okay anyway back to i started with a vlogging camera with just a microphone built into it that was perfect for what i was doing at the time because i've always i've always said content is

Starting point is 02:54:42 king you should you should use whatever camera you have and you should try to make the best content you can. From there, we used a handy cam that the NCIX boss gave his kids and they didn't use, so we adopted it. And then when we started Linus Media Group, I got a Sony FS700 knowing that it was 1080p today and that there would be a 4K upgrade in the future. That ended up being a long and winding road with various external recorders.

Starting point is 02:55:12 I remember we had an Odyssey 7Q or 7 at some point. It was an external recorder that used SSDs because I was super determined to not use proprietary media. It looked at the time like, was it CFast that was going to? No, I think this was pre-CFast. I can't remember what the hotness fast media was going to, no, I think that was, this was pre C fast. I can't remember what the hotness fast media was supposed to be at the time, but, um, there were other cameras like the black magic cinema camera. We did end up with one of those at some point, for some reason that used an internal SSD, like a Sata SSD. That was super cool. So the FS 700, we had a couple iterations of external recorders. then that i never really talked about this publicly but that was stolen um which was which was pretty upsetting for me because that

Starting point is 02:55:50 camera had a lot of sentimental value it sure did um for me it went through a lot with us all of us we had to get it firmware upgraded in order to support 4k and we had to get like i forget if we had external audio recording for that one as well anyway Anyway, from the FS 700, um, we went to, I believe, I want to say straight to the reds because, uh, there was an overlap. And then I think we, Hmm, you know what? I might not actually remember. We might've gone for like the slightly downgraded, not quite an FS7, or maybe we were shooting on Blackmagic Cinema cameras or pockets in the interim. Crap, I can't go through this. I don't remember everything. I thought I did. Anyway, we got the Reds and that was very easily justifiable. We made a ton of content, not just about the cameras themselves, but also about all the different things that we learned about and workflow stuff and just having 8K footage around to experience informed us about how useful it was and how valuable it was.

Starting point is 02:56:56 We often used the higher resolution footage to punch in in post without necessarily giving up visual quality. There were lots of things that were super great about those cameras but we've moved on we we went to the black magic 12k cameras that ended up being kind of a disaster because their low light performance wasn't very good and uh the footage was even more difficult to handle and then we since then have moved on to sony um oh crap i forget the name of them yeah fx3s and fx6s are they fx i know they're fx6s dan uh you anyway you can see all our current stuff in the gerald undone studio tour that he did recently and the reason that we like those is that they can take good audio into camera up to four channels which is really useful when we

Starting point is 02:57:45 have multiple hosts the footage is pretty easy to work with they're pretty reliable they record to they record to sd hey dan at some point we were using uh something that had like external usbc ssds and we had just a ton of problems with those um we used a lot of a7s's for a long time now we don't use those anymore because sony has their fx3 which is kind of like a more professional a7s um yeah super super boring to me i guess but i'm not really much of a camera gear head i just i'm like okay does this meet our business needs which has been in a way really interesting for me as well because it helps me to see the things that i am enthusiastic about through that lens so for me a computer is like cool but then i have to step back and i have to go okay if it was a camera, how would I see it? Well, what's its function?

Starting point is 02:58:46 What's its cost? Is there a long-term ROI? What can we do with our old equipment to reduce some of the cost of this upgrade? Blah, blah, blah. It's not that I am less enthusiastic about computers now. It's more that it just helps me understand multiple perspectives when I'm looking at them more yes howdy wanda dll long time listener first time caller little l you speak of your darn tough socks but have you tried features far better comfort same warranty and durability feet yours e-e-t-u-r-e-s i have a hard time

Starting point is 02:59:28 believing that they have far better comfort but i'm uh kind of excited to learn more top rated sock is going off road get ten dollars off that's terrifying if you can have ten dollars off a sock that um tells you a lot about how much they cost oh no okay they're about the same as darn tough yeah i don't know i'd probably have to try them do they have anything not low cut i don't do low cut i don't like my My ankles get cold Oh my goodness I didn't know that was why This is a $30 sock

Starting point is 03:00:10 I only do low cut Yeah no For the exact opposite problem I don't like it I'm just overheating all the time That's why I wear sandals though Ah Yeah so

Starting point is 03:00:21 Socks and not shoes Is the perfect balance for me that looks sloppy not gonna lie it does to be honest um i'd be willing to consider checking them out but one of the things that is so exceptional about darn tough is the, um, the density that they achieve with their weave. Um, and our materials expert who I introduced earlier on the show,

Starting point is 03:00:51 Tatiana, um, has backed me up on this one. Now I am not imagining it. They're actually just like markedly better than, than other socks. No offense, Luke. He spent a lot on inferior socks.

Starting point is 03:01:03 I really like my socks. But he really likes them. That's good. That's what's important um so i don't know we'll yeah for linus yes go ahead since he's an index user still like me are you a backer for the nofio which is getting near the finish line i'm looking forward to it and hoping it will get patches for the big screen okay so a couple things here uh number one is i think i'm getting one but i i didn't back it i um used my tech reviewer privilege i will be getting one but no i didn't pay for pay for it. What? What? You should tell Taryn. Tell him what?

Starting point is 03:01:46 I'm going to review it, and then if no one needs it, then I'll borrow it. Maybe. Forever. As long as you sign it out. I will sign it out. There's no problem. I always sign things out correctly. Good.

Starting point is 03:01:57 See, Dan doesn't mind. Dan's just trying to suck up. I don't know why. We should put Dan in charge. He takes stuff home and doesn't sign it out, and then we can't find and then we spend six months doing an audit and we give him a 40 page document of all the stuff he has signed out and then he can't find anything in my defense some of that stuff was taken home back when we shot at home so it wasn't taken home it just was there it still should be signed out because the location significantly changed well yeah but i but it didn't even have assets

Starting point is 03:02:30 some of it was pre the asset system in my in fairness to me anyway um the nofio though looks amazing it's a wireless adapter for the valve index uh from everything that i've seen it works really well but unfortunately you will not be using it on your big screen beyond because the big screen beyond goes way beyond in its bigness of screen. It runs at a much higher resolution than the index and it's pushing the limits of what a wired DisplayPort 1.4 connection can do. Forget about wireless. That is not happening for something like the big screen beyond anytime soon, unfortunately. I just watched all the CNET review videos for my past cell phones, and some were 15 years old.

Starting point is 03:03:15 What would happen if YouTube decided to delete the old stuff? Will Google host the LG Chocolate 3 review forever? We've talked about this. This is a big part of that video I did about why Google should charge for 4K YouTube. The platform has to make money. And like you said, with the amount of accumulated archival content on the platform that really doesn't matter anymore, except that it's our only record,

Starting point is 03:03:40 like YouTube has immense historical significance at this point cultural significance at this point and we are basically just counting on google to not just pivot and change it but like sketchiest company he could have said at that time actually important for them to make money on this platform and if some superfluous feature like 4k playback on your stupid phone is something that they can charge for i think they should the whole argument i made in the video was a little more nuanced than that but that's the basic gist of it is that 4k is not something we need 4k is a luxury

Starting point is 03:04:26 on youtube and if the users who benefit from that luxury and who find great value in it are subsidizing the platform for everyone else that's that's a system that has to work for this because otherwise the the free the free internet free access internet can't survive. I just moved and my ISP tried to make me pay the $500 worth of debt from the previous tenant before they would turn on my service. What's the most a company tried to make you pay for something dumb? Oh, man. I mean, I'm sure there's an answer to that, but my wife would probably know. She handles all the finances.

Starting point is 03:05:10 I don't think I've opened a bill in 15 years. So maybe Luke has an answer for this one. Oh, I thought you were on it. Sorry, what was it? The company tried to charge you for something dumb? The company tried to charge him for money the previous tenant at that address owed. Oh, that happened to me. What? Oh, okay. okay yeah my property taxes no way yeah i got screwed on it i got a i got up so when i bought the place uh i was supposed to they paid the property taxes but but something, something happened, whatever. And then I had to pay like the remaining when I came in. But then I got a bill that said it was late and not paid with extra interest later saying I didn't pay it the first time, even though I had a receipt for paying it the first time.

Starting point is 03:05:56 And I got in a dispute with the city about it. And they were basically like, take us to court or pay it. And I was like, okay. So I just paid it because it was literally cheaper wow and i literally got bullied by the city yeah super cool that was dope um i have an interesting one though that i can point out uh because i actually do want to give them props in this situation okay and that's tell us i complained on wAN Show a while ago about how they were... You would have a payment method...

Starting point is 03:06:30 Oh, it was like a dark pattern thing or something, right? No, it was just like bad tech. You'd have a payment method on file and they just wouldn't charge it and then they'd charge you interest and late fees. Got it. Which was stupid. I think they fixed it

Starting point is 03:06:44 and I noticed there was a bunch of kind of dark patterns but i think they were actually unintentional just really really unintuitive ui that you couldn't really tell and it to the point where like there was actually no functional way to tell how your recurring payment method thing was supposed to work and how it's supposed to update and stuff yeah um i recently had to get a new credit card got the new credit card went to go update my teles subscription thing and it's completely different huh and it's very easy to understand what's going on it's very clearly communicated what's happening and i haven't had the issue with it not billing my card ever since i one of them one of the people that tell us so someone

Starting point is 03:07:23 contacted me they contacted me and i talked to them on the phone walked them through everything and they were like okay i'm gonna make this happen i was like i'll believe it when i see it apparently i just saw it so high five tell us got some stuff done and on the experience of updating my card there was like flawless so all right i don't know good job in in that in in that one case i'm not you know sure in that one case good job yeah hey lld first purchase from the store normally don't live in canada i'm organizing a land at my hometown university for the second time next year any tips and tricks?

Starting point is 03:08:05 We were around 40 last time, hoping for more than 60. I mean, Steam Cache? Yeah, sorry, what is it again? They're hosting a LAN. Any tips and tricks? It's so easy these days. Yeah, make sure you don't go too many too many switches deep i think the max is seven and don't get anywhere near that if you can avoid it promote this is the lamest

Starting point is 03:08:34 thing i could ever say but i actually believe it promote like having like veggie trays and stuff instead of regular gamer snacks wow you, you really have gotten boring. I have two reasons. Yeah. I have two reasons. One, it's just better for you. Two, it will actually aid in the sleepless night. A lot of people think the like-

Starting point is 03:08:57 Hydration. Sugar food and stuff is going to help. But what's actually going to be better is good food and water. Yeah. Veggies. That will actually keep you going and veggies are both of those things yeah honestly yeah like it's it's actually like it's literally a gamer move and also it's healthier but it's also literally a gamer move so there you go. This one's for Luke. How are the hardware upgrades going for LTT? I provide SOHO solutions.

Starting point is 03:09:31 Server power draw keeps me from pointing to server hardware due to power consumption. Consumer hardware memory limitations suck. Are we upgrading any hardware? Not really right now. We will be. We will be uh but i don't think there has been i mean there's like little stuff all the time but i don't think there's been any major changes uh there's a plan to update some switches but like yeah i don't know it's not like

Starting point is 03:09:59 we're swapping out servers here i think we're gonna do a high availability one a cluster at some point compute Compute cluster. Yeah. We've got some for lab and some other stuff. There's stuff coming. There hasn't been major stuff done yet though. Yeah. So maybe ask me again in a while.

Starting point is 03:10:12 And honestly, when we do it, I'm sure there's going to be videos coming out about it. So you'll just see it then. Yeah. Yeah. Hi, LLD. I am upgrading my theater room, trying to copy yours.

Starting point is 03:10:22 Last WAN show mentioned the tcl screen but samsung just launched the new a new the wall this week stupid name for a product the wall yep i still use the facebook i think it looks good would you get it um so okay the reason i curated this is i tried to google this and absolutely everything i found was about the border wall between the u.s and mexico oh my goodness so i'm gonna add samsung and see if i can figure out what exactly it is that you're talking about um i don't see a new one uh samsung the wall news this week unveils the wall for virtual no that's june 14th okay someone's gonna have to link me to this because i'm afraid i'm just not really sure uh which one you're referring to the float plane the float plane stop i mean it was originally the float

Starting point is 03:11:22 plane club no that's not true it was originally rip vessel yeah that would have been pretty funny more? yes hey guys, Linus who were the first 10 hires at LMG and how many are still with the company okay

Starting point is 03:11:41 how about I add up first hires and then you add up ones that are not with us anymore. Okay. Okay. Not at the company anymore. Me. Yeah. Yvonne. Sorry. She's number two. Luke.

Starting point is 03:11:58 Ed. Brandon. Wait. What's up? I was counting wrong. fixed it we're good okay uh taryn oh crap i want to say neil van biel i think so i think i think burkle came before nick before Nick I know the next one well hold on just I know the next two really followed by uh hold on I'm thinking it's such a cheat that you and Yvonne are included it's accurate it's true it's fair you're right we're both right handshake but it's such a cheat it's not a cheat it's a little bit of a cheat no you can't have it both ways you can't be all like oh you're not the

Starting point is 03:12:50 company so you can't take stuff home and also which is why you are not an employee of the company so you don't count as a which is why you're right okay we can both be right if I remember correctly hold on hold on I think I remember I think I remember I think I remember I'm pretty sure it's John and Dennis yeah who started right before we moved I'm pretty sure it's Dennis first technically but I think they started on

Starting point is 03:13:21 the same day oh but I think Dennis's hire date was sooner because his like immigration was more complicated or something like that. So those are the first 10 and three are gone. Three are gone. Yeah. Okay.

Starting point is 03:13:34 That's pretty damn good. It's actually not bad. Yeah. Because all of those are like nine years ago or something like that. Tish? No, no, no, no. Yeah.

Starting point is 03:13:47 By the end of it, I think Dennis has been with us then about eight years or something like that tish no no no no yeah by the end of it i think i think dennis has been with us then about eight years or something like that and same same with john um trying to think after that things happened like really rapid fire like colton and uh you know i am on on our time sheets yeah i'm employee three because of univon nice on insurance i'm employee one don't know how that happened but it's freaking we probably don't have it oh why because we just have our own like insurance that we have oh okay yeah like i don't think we would have that makes sense yeah so every once in a while yeah that makes sense people will i'll like go to physio or something and need to put in my stuff. And I put 001 and I always get the look. Nice.

Starting point is 03:14:27 You're like, huh? I'm like, yeah. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, you think I'm something I'm not, but that's still cool. I'll take it. Hey, whatever. You're an original gangster. I don't have to correct anybody.

Starting point is 03:14:36 Can't nobody take that away from you. Yeah. Okay. People are linking me to Samsung the wall, but it's but I don't think this is new, you guys. Oh, wait, hold on. A new all-in-one 130. Okay, hold on, hold on. I've got a link that might be something new.

Starting point is 03:14:53 Okay, what is this? Press kit. Effortless viewing experiences with new all-in-one 130-inch LED display. Okay, so this one, I guess, doesn't use modules, but hold on a second, but this is a 1080p display. This isn't even 4k. Uh, I don't know guys. 1080p at that size is more, yeah, like commercial setting. We are sitting very, very far away from this. And the main point is like digital signage slash artwork um man something okay am i the only one who gets bothered by how completely unrealistic and stupid

Starting point is 03:15:36 some of the promotional materials for products are where is the power for this what is the purpose of this space what is this explain this to me what am i even looking at it's like the weirdest spot what's that thing we had the other day was like ocean food for humans this is like ai designed this is a human living space yeah well look where all the humans could put their this is like could put their buttocks the most expensive like google chromecast picture frame wall it's it's just a giant picture frame that costs tens of thousands of dollars no i think it is i just mean what is this room that it's in oh coffee shop kitchen where would the customers sit that that counter

Starting point is 03:16:31 on the left looks way too short yeah it does like none of the shadows make any sense either there's what looks like a couch way over here is this an ai generated well look look at the shadow underneath one of the chairs the window your light source is coming from the left and then the wall is blocking all of the light it's just like a weird composite that chair is maybe it's just rich people chairs but imagine sitting in that that looks like the most uncomfortable thing yeah uncomfortable furniture is totally a thing though rich people but that doesn't look like a standard counter what What is this? What is this fence? What does it protect someone against? You don't want to slide in your house? Why not?

Starting point is 03:17:08 What do you mean? It blocks the firm. Is that a lamp? This? Yeah. It could be a projector screen. I mean, it could be anything. It could be anything.

Starting point is 03:17:19 Yeah. I, um. Your dreams be memes. And like, honestly, what is this? Is this an office? Is this what someone imagines an office looks like? Where are all the, are these, what are these? Are these IMAX?

Starting point is 03:17:34 Where are all the peripherals? Do people actually tuck their chairs in like that when they go home at this place? I don't think it's an AI image though, because the feet on those chairs are not totally whacked. This is definitely a composite. I just... Oh, this is Unreal Engine. Look at this wall. Fakest, yeah.

Starting point is 03:17:52 It's just Unreal Engine. Is that it? This one, maybe. The other ones are definitely just, like, Photoshop composites. Like, I just... I don't understand it. And honestly, I... I have... i have had a similar

Starting point is 03:18:09 experience particularly looking at promotional imagery for projectors because every single stupid projector in fact samsung had one did i ever i i'm sure i told you this story i won't say the brand it's been long enough whatever they're fine um but i was at a uh a brand hotel room thing uh hotel event thing at computex uh years years back and i was looking at one of their little demo cards of how a monitor worked yeah and i started like laughing at it and pointing out all the ways that it was bs to brandon and one of the representatives sprinted from the other side of the room, grabbed it and ran away with it. Because they like realized that I was pointing out that they're like promotional materials,

Starting point is 03:18:53 which is BS and he just took off. That's hilarious. I just, this just made me think of that. I thought it was funny. What is powering this projector hope hey there could be a hole in the table no because that's not where the power inlet is for this projector oh is it the back or something what is it shining at as far as i can tell this is a dining room table. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 03:19:26 Let's go on. I haven't even... Whoever was posing for that thing just wanted lunch. Oh, wait. Hold on. Hold on a second. This one might be battery powered. This thing might have a battery in it. Hold on.

Starting point is 03:19:36 Hold on. Let me check. Let me check. Oh, if it did, you just got got, dude. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Just chill for a second.

Starting point is 03:19:43 It's okay. You can still be correct because it's still shining at nothing logical. So it's fine. Yeah. Still correct. That's not a compromise. Maybe it doesn't have a battery. Hold on.

Starting point is 03:19:53 Does it have a battery? Blah, blah, blah, blah. No, the compromise, Dan, is that he's correct, but he got one out of two. Hold on. Maybe the sound is through the bottom. Okay, I can no longer remember.

Starting point is 03:20:06 Fits in one hand. Portability. Okay, hold on. Blah, blah. External battery. Compatible. No, it does not include a battery. So let's go back.

Starting point is 03:20:22 What is powering this? Yeah, wait. What is powering this? Wait, wait. What is powering this? Wait, stop. You actually need to stop now. Go back. Where is the cord for this? Because it's shining when she flips it, isn't it?

Starting point is 03:20:34 Well, yeah, but it's fake. Yeah, but I'm seeing it. Also, this is not aimed at that. Not even close. This is aimed like up here. not aimed at that not even close this is aimed like up here what is even happening right now this is this this geometry is so perfect that with perfect professional installation alignment and a ceiling mounted projector with lens shift i could never hope to achieve such perfect geometry and look at this there's no spill she doesn't even need

Starting point is 03:21:13 a black frame on this thing no why would you why is this allowed i'm not even saying this is a bad product cool product or's the fakest thing But this is so fake I think that's like the worst example for me To be honest That looks like someone's snipping tool Like Unrealistic representation of this product

Starting point is 03:21:37 What is this Apple TV? At least this one has a power cord Going into what? Nothing Where's the base of it? It's here. Going into the floor? Isn't it bigger than that? Or is the base a power base or something? I don't even know. What are we even looking at? Wait, yeah, sometimes it doesn't have... Sometimes all your base don't belong to us. But yeah, that one doesn't have it. Yeah, she...

Starting point is 03:22:03 that is not powered yeah that one's definitely this is definitely added oh the external battery might be the taller base maybe but it sure as heck isn't connected to this one no that one yeah that one's still screwed up obviously so you're still correct i want to see the first frame of this hold on here we go no this clearly has no power source whatsoever. Yeah. Why? Why don't you just show it being used

Starting point is 03:22:31 in a realistic scenario with power attached to it? Is that so hard? Funky. Anyway. Yeah, just projector marketing is a personal pet peeve because it is...

Starting point is 03:22:44 I didn't even have to... People are saying there's a cable. Where? People are saying it had a cable. In front of the pillow. Just to the right. You can see it. You can barely see it because the pattern on the pillow.

Starting point is 03:22:56 It's just disingenuous. Oh, I think you're right. Yeah. Look at that. That's sickening. Where's it going? Where does it go? Well, she's got the power under the pillow

Starting point is 03:23:06 that's the worst hold on hold on no no no no no no no no no no it was not in that shot it is not here guys where does it go you know what if my point is that it's disingenuous i'm still right. Very correct. Good work. I agree with that one. Crap, I'm getting involved now. All right, hit me, Dan. It's too wholesome. We need to handshake in a circle.

Starting point is 03:23:56 Yeah, it has to be like this. Like what? No, no. This is what, this is, okay, we're back on track. No. Bad. This is what... This is... Okay, we're back on track. This is good. All right.

Starting point is 03:24:10 Excellent. Linus, you sounded excited to get into City Skylines 2. Have you seen how they rolled back pre-orders for consoles after they delayed the console launch? Is that an acceptable way to do that? Yes. Roll back pre-orders for consoles? Yeah. That is totally acceptable correct what's bad about that i mean yeah you should launch a product when it's ready

Starting point is 03:24:36 and you should take money when you're when you launch i love it all right i think i think i would almost did it did it it say they gave refunds? Like refunds just happened? Or were refunds offered? They didn't mention that. Because I would honestly prefer if they offered it. Because if I bought this thing and they were like, it's delayed, in a lot of cases, I'm just going to be like, okay, cool.

Starting point is 03:25:01 I don't want my money back. I just want it when it's ready. Not that it's horrible that they gave want my money back i just want it when it's ready it's not not that it's like horrible that they gave me my money back i heard i was going to get a refund okay so they're just like doing it which i don't prefer but it's not it's been delayed till like 2024 okay 2024 is not that far away yeah Yeah, it's like 13 months. Ah, 15. 15. What? What month in 2024? Oh, wait.

Starting point is 03:25:31 Oh, my God. 2024 is next year? Yes. Ah! What is time? Yeah, it's three months away. Okay, never mind. Cool.

Starting point is 03:25:42 Yeah, they're being automatically refunded. I'm okay with it. I'm not against it. Yeah, just go yeah just go order it again yeah it's fine it's not a big deal yeah this is if anything they might be doing it wrong but they're doing the right thing wrong so intentions matter a lot oh yeah oh no they're being great yeah it's clear what their intentions are 100 A hundred percent. Yeah. Okay. Hey Linus, I'm an eighth grade science teacher and I am launching a YouTube channel for educational content. What tech tips do you have to make educational content entertaining for the youths of today? I mean,

Starting point is 03:26:15 honestly, I kind of feel like I'm getting old, but one, one critical thing is bringing in fresh blood. You know, we definitely get new younger people ideas from the younger people on our team um one of them is never stop having fun making the content you know bill my wasn't young when he did bill my the science guy it's still super entertaining

Starting point is 03:26:34 um so just have fun you know you could just tell that show was a lot of fun um at least i hope it was for all i know maybe it was super toxic or something bill and i size guy yeah but i just i don't think that's been canceled no i just mean i don't know maybe the production environment was terrible and it had nothing to do with bill like i don't know um but but yeah no i i just just keep it keep it fun fun is infectious that's the most important thing okay hey dll happy to have another long sleeve back. Is there any reason you don't do them more or for your other shirts? Yes.

Starting point is 03:27:08 The reason is that we didn't have blanks. We couldn't get stock from American Apparel of their long sleeve blank. And we were prioritizing our short sleeve blank before we started working on the long sleeve blank because the fit's a little bit more challenging. But now, as you can see, we have done up our fit. We've done all of our grading

Starting point is 03:27:26 across all the different sizes and we have it now. Let's go. Now, this one's all in capitals, but I'm not going to yell it. Question for Luke. Do you think Starfield was a success or a failure?

Starting point is 03:27:37 No, no, you're reading it wrong, Dan. Question for Luke. Do you think Starfield was a success or a failure? Not sure if the answer is straightforward i'll keep it short um i don't think we're going to be able to tell for a long time um my only reason for that is before it came out todd was talking about how they weren't designing

Starting point is 03:27:56 a game for the next like one year they were designing a game for the next like 10 years and one thing i will defend the game on is its core there's a bunch of actually good stuff it bones it's gonna need the modders to make it good and before everyone screams at me no that doesn't excuse it i understand that but i've talked about this before as well nexus mods dot com i got tired of the game at a certain point got angry with it was like screw it i'm gonna do it uh and i just went on nexus mods went to collections for starfield saw constellation v2 read through all the mods that they had in it i was like this sounds great this looks like exactly what i would do clicked two buttons and in like 20 minutes i was back in the game, had like a hundred mods running and it's way better.

Starting point is 03:28:47 Massively prefer the new system. And this is without creation kit. This is without years of time for modders to work on it. And the space arena for modders to be able to mess around in and make super cool things is going to be awesome. I think it's going to have crazy legs on it. I also would point to Cyberpunk, to a game that was a failure on launch

Starting point is 03:29:11 and is now this amazing thing that everyone loves. I would point at other games like that too. So I don't know. I don't think it was a Smash success. I don't think it's doing badly enough to necessarily consider it a failure due to it having really long legs on it if it didn't have really long legs on it i would say it's a failure that's it linus i was wondering why you went all the way to a place like alabama to talk to somebody about the saturn 5 rocket surely there were smarter

Starting point is 03:29:42 people in smarter places you could have gone to wow what the heck what does that even mean that's really inflammatory um it was awesome um were you talking to smart every day yeah i was down there so that's what the smarter thing is about i think no i don't i don't i don't think so i just i think that maybe there's an underestimation of how smart the people I was talking to were, maybe. Oh. I thought they were, like, awesome. Literal rocket scientists. Yeah, like, what? I don't know.

Starting point is 03:30:13 I'm confused. Yeah, I don't know. I went there because I was hanging with Destin from Smarter Every Day. We set up a server for him, and we also made a video for our own channel while we were down there. And I talked to very, very, very smart people for that video and it was awesome sweet hi lld did you guys end up doing the backpack car pulling thing no we need to do that yeah we've been doing more video marketing lately so maybe we should add that i mean it's going to be one of those things where like come on be realistic it's not like you'll be able to floor

Starting point is 03:30:48 it like that would that would tear it apart obviously but and and like if you go slow enough you could probably tow a car with a human hair but like we'll find some middle ground i think don't think about physics okay all right blah blah static coefficient of friction i don't care many hairs together strong thanks dan that was really helpful sorry that was a callback uh linus what was the issue with the latest samsung wearables that you uh that didn't you didn't use them i don't remember i think i used it for a bit and then i didn't like the interface basically i just want the pebble back give me hardware buttons that's all i care about is like scroll up scroll down being able to like change my music track my starfield watch has physical buttons that scroll

Starting point is 03:31:34 up and scroll down do you like it yeah it's actually can you change music i can oh well then it sounds pretty good it's surprisingly okay it feels very like dated can you read messages on it yeah oh okay you can't respond to them yeah pebble could yeah pebble time could pebble time peaks my watch i like being able to read messages on it though a surprising amount to the point where it has me actually vaguely interested in this pixel watch thing i'm just worried i'm gonna lose it immediately because like i just don't take it off why would you take it off I can't help it what do you mean you can't help it I can't help it learn to help it things just annoy me

Starting point is 03:32:09 when I'm typing and it's right there I'm like this is annoying I don't want it on get a better band just spend actual money no then spend more money on losing things no just don't buy them in the first place yeah but it's included with your phone

Starting point is 03:32:25 so you have it already yeah maybe i don't know if that's gonna i don't know if that's gonna work hold on i just need to check something no they're still there with how defeated he was i thought Oh my goodness. Wow. I'm going to read another merch message now. Sheesh. Luke, I'm loving your Starfield playthrough, but it's going to take me a while to get through it. Can you please upload the VODs to something that isn't Twitch?

Starting point is 03:33:00 Be ashamed to lose them. I'm going to try. I'm going to answer for him. He's not going to feel like doing that. I archived I think I curated I was gonna say like why was that curated yeah I wouldn't cure just so that I could answer it for you no yeah it's true sorry uh you might be able to download them off Twitch I don't know I don't know. I don't really know anything about it. Piracy is the answer. Do it.

Starting point is 03:33:27 Yeah, steal them. I don't care. Do it, you wimp. Oh, man. Hey, Top Crew to DLL. Any news on LDT Backpack Carabiners? My fiance got me one for Valentine's Day. How would I stay up to date on this?

Starting point is 03:33:49 Thanks for almost 20 years of entertainment. As long as you're still with your fiance when they finally ship, she'll get a notification and you'll get them. That's the best way to stay up on it. That's amazing. That's either offensive or not yeah depends how their relationship's going yeah i saw a youtube short ad for someone who was selling carabiners which are almost identical oh i did too you saw this i pointed at the screen it's i

Starting point is 03:34:19 that was oh my god i almost sent it to you no oh my god they I almost sent it to you. No, no, no. Oh my god. They're almost identical to the new ones. Oh yeah, that makes sense. Same material. Oh yeah, it's a thing. Almost actually identical design. Yeah, yeah, they're a thing. The hard part is getting... Did it have the squared corners thing?

Starting point is 03:34:35 They were slightly different. They weren't identical. No, no, they're a thing that exists. That's fine. The hard part is getting a quarter million of them. Okay. Yeah. I don't think is getting a quarter million of them okay yeah i don't i don't think they made a quarter million yeah everything is easy when you only need one yeah i mean they were selling like packs of like two or something for like a bunch it was a hell

Starting point is 03:34:55 of a lot of money mostly probably because they didn't order a quarter million yeah they're really expensive even in quantities of a quarter million yeah yeah uh but yeah we're we're production is is ongoing. We are on it. We're exploring where to ship them from. It looks like they'll probably ship out of China at this point, but still more work to do.

Starting point is 03:35:13 Last one of my curated here. Hi, Linus. I'm a sous chef and work for a contract company. It's sous chef. That's a reference to an earlier part of the show. I know. I wasn't listening. Yeah okay uh hi Linus I'm a sous chef and work for a contract company that sets up kitchens in other companies and feeds the employees 50 to 800 people per account uh have

Starting point is 03:35:40 you ever thought of doing something similar um man you set up a kitchen in another company. I mean, it sounds like a Google-level thing to do. EA. Yeah. EA has one of those. I think something like that would be super cool. I have no idea how we could make something like that feasible here. We don't even have a lunchroom, which I guess is embarrassing.

Starting point is 03:36:04 But yeah, I mean, we have the lounge. I yeah i mean we have the lounge i know and we have the foyer at the lab though neither of those are technically lunchrooms like we have places for people to eat we're not you know total barbarians but they are not they're not lunchrooms they're not set up for like a, if we expected everyone to take their lunch at the same time, like with a catered meal or something like that. Oh yeah. Impossible.

Starting point is 03:36:32 You can like do staged rollout of meals through food trucks. Sure, but then everybody has to like schedule it or something. And yeah, that's asking a lot of our team, no offense. Especially if production schedules. Yeah, like it's just,

Starting point is 03:36:43 I have no idea. There's definitely issues with it like we do snackies um that's that's about all we're set up for right now have just straight up restaurants yeah but that's the thing is where on earth would i put a restaurant no no no i'm not i'm not i'm just yeah let's just buy another unit and just like they they like track solve that problem by having a literal restaurant yeah because it has to run all the time so it's like yeah so i just i'm not uh yeah i'm just not i'm not set up for that i really enjoyed the communication me just like looking at you and pointing yeah you weren't even really pointing in the right direction it's right there i was talking about the labs the whole time oh yeah but you were pointing kind of off that way i was was pointing this way. I don't know. I'm sure the video evidence will show that I was right and that you were also right.

Starting point is 03:37:27 Very good. Very good. I'm starting to like this now. It's very wholesome. Got so used to my parents fighting that this feels better. I'm talking about you two. Oh, okay. It's a metaphor.

Starting point is 03:37:42 It's a metaphor. I was like, oof. That's a little bit too heavy guys geez geez geez uh okay with the writers guild ending the strike after reaching an agreement reportedly in your favor does it make you rethink your position on ai's ability to replace creative work. No, not even a little. Because we never said that AI was going to replace truly exceptional creative work. AI has to be trained. It's a learning model, right?

Starting point is 03:38:15 You need human creativity to feed into the AI. It's not self-sustaining. It's not a perpetual motion machine, right? the AI, it's not self-sustaining, it's not a perpetual motion machine, right? So, the kind of work that we think that AI will be able to replace is absolutely going to be within its capabilities at some point. However, this appears to have been a major win for staving off that point. One of my concerns, and I haven't read through everything yet because I've been extremely busy with other things lately. This is something that I've been kind of following up on occasionally, but not following extremely closely the whole time,

Starting point is 03:38:56 but very interested in just, you know, that sort of thing. So I haven't read it in more detail yet, and I would really like to, but one of my concerns is that when I looked at it, it seemed like the term of the new deal was not very long. Writers, hold on. I'm trying to deal term length. Hold on. Let me check. Let me check.

Starting point is 03:39:20 Maybe it's longer than I thought. Three- year contract? Like to me, to me a, what takes place for fresh three year? Yeah, to me a three year contract is just another way of saying, hey, we're going to wait for AI to get better. Yeah.

Starting point is 03:39:44 So that's a major concern from my side and and again it's not that man i feel like my position on this is very hard for people to um wrap their heads around because i'm not just i'm not just pro ai or pro union or anti anything. Like I'm, I'm, I'm an outsider here in a big way because I don't think that our industry is necessarily in as much danger as that industry. Um,

Starting point is 03:40:19 and it's for reasons that I honestly, I'm having a hard time kind of figuring out how to articulate right now. Like we're, we're operating on such a fast pace it changes so fast i i also think like with the workload that with the workload and the timeline that social media people have to work on youtube tiktok whatever any form of assistance is not going to result in lower hires yeah i don't there's just more we could do 100 of the time yeah and like like if someone here could use it as an accelerator we're probably just gonna end up hiring more people not less accelerate more like we're our whole industry is growing at such a an rate right now, whereas they are in a period of, I mean,

Starting point is 03:41:06 that's been a big part of what I've brought up as a major concern, right, is that they're negotiating for a new deal to be paid more in an industry that is currently undergoing what I think may be an extinction level event, right? Like, we've seen so much consolidation and we've seen so so such low profitability coming out of the the streaming era that i i just i i felt like they didn't have a lot of leverage it's clear that these companies need to make shows and right now the only path to that is a deal with the writers but the fact that this is only a three-year deal is a major concern to me yeah honestly i didn't know the three-year thing and it has me shifting from worrying like i i heard this went through and i was like oh nice they won awesome and now it kind of feels like a delayed loss um yeah someone's saying a demon in flip

Starting point is 03:42:06 plane chat is saying uh that the three-year term might have been on purpose from the writers because they're expecting the studios to find loopholes and they'd rather patch them sooner rather than later i mean that's uh that's a dangerous game that's a dangerous game um Um, yeah. Three-year deal is their standard, apparently. Yeah, all right. I mean, this is, you can't go on strike for half a year to get a three-year deal every time. My goodness. Um, that's, that's not sustainable.

Starting point is 03:42:39 All right. Sheesh. Well, good. Um, yeah, I mean, I, I feel for the people who are out of work for a long time. I hope they get back. I hope that the new terms are such that they make up, they gain back what they lost. Like that's the most important thing is I remember there was a prolonged teacher strike here a long, long time ago. time ago and um basically you know it was the the teachers union positioned it as a win and um i i read something i was talking to someone who basically did the math on how much the province saved during the time they were on strike and how much the gains they got were and how long the deal was for and basically they were just getting back what they lost except they just like weren't working for a long time and then they were working and

Starting point is 03:43:31 and it was like okay yeah um so i i just i just hope i like i said i haven't looked at the details and i hope they're getting back what they lost and and some i mean that does help i guess for new people coming in yeah it's a public service but provinces still have budgets which is sort of baffling to me especially with something like education what do you what do you mean budget school costs what school costs you're that's like that's like one of your three actually important jobs, government. Roads, schools, libraries. Like, honestly, if you haven't got that covered, what else are you doing? Not hospitals.

Starting point is 03:44:15 Oh, yeah. Hospitals. Sure. Fine. I thought we were talking about America. It's a little questionable. Private hospitals. There you go.

Starting point is 03:44:23 Anyway. Up next. little questionable so private hospitals there you go um anyway up next how to avoid getting scammed with you having multiple great products how is the initiation process working with suppliers on alibaba i want to craft my own weight clothes using tungsten 60 kilograms about 3 000 i had i saw this i didn't curate this i've literally no they're they're trying to figure out how to engage with alibaba suppliers okay so a couple things number one is no alibaba supplier is going to want to sell you one set of anything uh they're they might sample something to you but they need to get some idea that you are working on an order that will have some kind of quantity in the longer term in order to engage with you at all because they don't want to waste their time either as for avoiding

Starting point is 03:45:11 getting scammed honestly we've had overall pretty good experiences dealing with alibaba sellers um they care about their reputation on that platform, as far as I can tell. Far more than small-time sellers care about their reputation on a platform like Amazon. And I think the reason is that on Alibaba, that's a Chinese site where I think there are actual consequences for bad behavior. And they are actually operating under their real entity name. They're not just spinning up a random XYZ Tech Incorporated thing

Starting point is 03:45:53 so that they can flip some crap on Amazon. So yeah, it's honestly been overall pretty solid. Hey Luke, how would you rate the 3D down jacket for winter?'m in new york right on the border with canada is this the winter jacket for me uh i don't know if i'm the right person to ask that's not winter winter i am a warm boy it's more of like a spring fall water resistant kind of thing and if you wanted to wear it in like proper winter, like below zero temperatures,

Starting point is 03:46:28 you'd, you'd layer it up. So like I do, it can be layered and I layer it up. Yeah. Um, but it's not, it's really warm for how thick it is or thin it is,

Starting point is 03:46:38 but it is not a super warm jacket. It's a really cool garment. I absolutely love it. I wear it all the time. Uh, but I don't want to, I don't want to sell it as something that it's not and it is not like a snowboarding jacket no though i have taken it snowboarding yes with layers and it was probably fine and it was fine but it's not a snowboard jacket and i also wasn't east coast you know winter we live in a pretty temperate area. Even our, even our mountains are like minus 10.

Starting point is 03:47:09 Yeah. In the winter. So yeah. Like I've worn it out in the snow, but I'm a warm boy and we live in BC. I have experienced a blizzard in Boston before. And I was like, ah, yes. What cold feels like. so i don't know yeah maybe maybe not the right one i'm not sure hi linus luke and dan i love the show and the channel i have been

Starting point is 03:47:36 trying to understand how to run dual gpus do they need to be the same model and what would the benefit be of running two gpus oh man uh well we don't really do that anymore i think last gen only the 3090 supported it and only in like benchmarking applications i was gonna say for for benchmarking not really in any real games and then 4000 series doesn't support it at all so it's kind it's kind of a dead meme at this point it's kind of fun to play around with if you grab an older card and and no, they don't need to be exactly the same design, so you can run like Asus

Starting point is 03:48:09 and Zotac together, but they do need to be the same model. From like NVIDIA's standpoint. Yeah, so like two 2080s, you know, as opposed to two, you know, a 2080 and a 2080 Ti. Yeah. Hey, Linus, I've recently bought a pci to fiber have you ever used this technology and would you consider using it yourself sounds super cool haven't done it

Starting point is 03:48:35 and i really don't know what to make of this last one do you know what it stands for i've been staring at it for a long time and i can't decide every option makes me sad because of the k yeah um i think literally every option is an egregious mistake because of the k i think there's any way around it okay well then in that case let's just do it hey luke and linus fmk amd intel arm so it's um have casual relations with marry and kill if you want bed wet and dead sure yeah let's go with that one yeah um why are we talking about my bedwetting it is after dark uh bedwet and dead um man i uh wow see here's the thing okay i think i got my spicy take oh okay go ahead literally that order fmk amd intel arm

Starting point is 03:49:48 you would kill arm yeah but arms the future that's my why would you kill the future because i don't know if i like it i don't know if i like the future linus what the who what oh man see i was gonna say if i have kill one, it's probably got to be AMD. See, but that option's scary, because now everyone hates you. Well, not just hates me, but now everyone has nothing but stagnant Intel forever. But at least we'll have ARM. So I marry ARM. I use Intel for now.

Starting point is 03:50:24 Oh, that's so boring. But that's the obvious. So bed... AMD's a lot more fun for that. Sort of. I don't... Man, AMD does some YOLO stuff, man. What do you think my computer's set up like right now?

Starting point is 03:50:41 What do you think that is? Yeah, okay, sure, but like... I'm up like right now what do you think that is yeah okay sure but like i'm all red right now yeah i i know i know i know i know i know i'm the one who gives you all your hardware yeah arm i think the reason why you can't kill arm. The reason why I chose... Nothing with... Your phone? Like, everything. Arm, gone. No. It would be a really entertaining path. Let's just watch the world burn behavior. That's not a real answer.

Starting point is 03:51:16 I think my answer is the real answer. Imagine all the bad things happening with compute that would, like, have to stop. I mean yeah we could just go back to the stone age and all the bad things with compute would stop that's true okay Dan do it

Starting point is 03:51:36 AMD released a thread ripper I'm killing AMD. Oh yeah, I forgot they F'd you before you had to decide. They F'd me and a lot of other people. I kind of... Now it's my turn. I think you're both right.

Starting point is 03:51:59 Oh my god. There we go. There we go. And I think that's enough for that show. We see you again next week same hold on hold on hold on what we have a raid oh i think i think the real one is is um wait did you say kill amd yeah you say mary arm no mary a mary arm yeah yeah yeah i think that's the real one yeah it's just fun i like yours too though. That's why we're both right.

Starting point is 03:52:28 All right. Moving on. We're raiding. We're raiding. Who are we raiding? Uh, UFD tech. Wait,

Starting point is 03:52:34 there's a stream, right? That's right. Um, I'm setting it up here. I can deal with that if you fancy. Okay, cool. Dan's going to do it.

Starting point is 03:52:40 I'm going to try. All right. So thanks for watching guys. We'll see you again next week. Same bad time. same bad channel. Bye! And if you're over on YouTube, make sure you have autoplay enabled

Starting point is 03:52:57 and it should take you straight there. Okay. I don't think they can hear you over the music, Dan. Oh. I don't know why I bothered then. So we can hear you? Oh, yeah.

The WAN Show - Windows Subscriptions - WAN Show October 6, 2023

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