The Watch - 2017's Great Wall of Culture With Jason Mantzoukas (Ep. 213)

Episode Date: December 21, 2017

The Ringer’s Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald are joined by friend of the pod Jason Mantzoukas to celebrate their favorite people and projects in pop culture in 2017. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I need sports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now. Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I'm an editor at The Ringer.com. And joining me in the studio is Andy Greenwald and our person of the year every year. Jason Van Tuka!

What's up, man? What's up? Jerks. Friend of the pod. Thank God. Multi-appearances. Yeah, really the MVP of the podcast this year. Wow.

You are, yeah. Neither of us were eligible for the award this year. Sam, S-M-S mail. Kaboom. Jason is here to do our annual podcast, The Wall. What is the Wall? Glad you asked. The best way to characterize it is, this is our year end pod, our year in culture review.

The Wall itself is an artificial, completely subjective construct that we occasional... Is this the Wall? This is all great question, right? The idea is basically that it's our Hall of Fame. It's our annual Hall of Fame. People get, they get inducted. Now, we have had some... The bylaws of the Wall have not really...

been committed to hard-tog. Like many of the bits we do on this podcast, they are fluid and tempered. Yes. So, you know, can people be on the wall more than once? We're going to find out. Yeah. Great. Okay.

And so it can be anybody from, you can be pulling apart from a show that is not on your end of year list, but that part or that person or that whatever, it was so transformational, they belong on the wall. That would be a great way to look at it. And in fact, it's reoriented my entire thinking, and I'm scrapping my list. Great. As am I. I think we made this mistake when we did our year in TV pop,

but I just wanted to ask, like, as we settle down before we start naming names, yeah, baby. How was this year for you, Jason? I was, honest, as I was putting together, I do an end-of-year music list every year. Yeah. I do a seasonal mix every season. Really? And then...

For consumption by others, or just personal use? For very few. There's like a couple of people get it. Mostly people that I somehow anecdotally I'm talking about it, and they're like, send me that. Yeah. Like your T-Mobile 5, get it. Exactly. Right. Yes.

And so I was putting that together in the last week or so and then started putting this together. And I had like a real revelation. Yeah. I have been depressed this year. It's been a really rough year. This year, like my, my mix is so melancholy. Yes. It is so, it is full of wonderful but heartbreaking records.

Yes. And then as I was putting everything else together, I was like, oh, this year for me was sad music and like comfort food distraction entertainment. Yes. You know, whether it's podcasts or TV, like I didn't go to the movies very much, which is very weird for me. Like I feel like in doing this, in looking at my life in this way, I also this year, for most of the year, did a Stephen Soderberg style media diet. Did you really? I did.

I kept track of everything I listened to, saw, you know, went to see if I went and saw a concert or went to the movie, I wrote everything down. And looking back over it? I feel like it is either like indulging in very sad stuff or stuff that is meant to truly just be detachment. Here's my take. Soderberg ruined that thing. Yeah. Because no one is like just knocked out Zodiac again. Well, I am.

But no one is like, this is a cry for help. Red arsenals of folly and the invention of the nuclear missile race. And then knocked out like three episodes of Black Mirror and then followed that up with like a moose bush of raiders. Sure. At the end of the night. And yet I watched like every single episode of Action, Bronsons, fuck that's delicious. Twice.

I think, can I just also say, I think Soderberg's media diet is just kind of the world's most indulgent sub-tweeted people with kids. It is just like the strongest, strongest parlay from the trial-free and proud community. I heard it's not even real. I heard Banksy does it. Well, that's, he read the whole thing together.

He watches all those movies. It's all, yeah. It's actually it's Mr. Brainwatch. I agree with you, man. And I think that it's a tough year for heroes. It's a tough year for picking people that you were inspired by. I think it just was one of those things where anything that you got hype for, there's a very specific thing that happens in our office where something cool happens on the internet.

And we actually still, it's almost physically viral. We like take it into other people's office and you have to see this goal. You got to see this dunk. You got to see this kid fall off a skateboard. And it happened, but it didn't happen. with the same joie de fievers, you know what I mean? It did not have like that unchained, like, isn't it great to be alive and ingesting concert?

There's also an element for me, which was like I got sucked into much more this year, like weird small fringe things that I became obsessed with. Right. Versus like big, giant cultural, like, even though I, of course, was in Game of Thrones as much as we all were. I feel like I got way more like drilled into like weird, YouTube channels and stuff like that. I think partly we talk, we often,

maybe too often mourn the death of the monoculture in TV because we miss, and it also obviously was self-serving. It helps our podcast when we all feel like everyone's watching the same thing. But there was a monoculture this year, and it was sort of quietly watching democracy die in flames, and everyone's watching the news and everyone's riveted by that. And so pop culture, for many

people, became a lot more about retreating to your personal warren of safety or comfort. Absolutely. Yeah. I feel that though. And I definitely have like, like, you can always see like on my Spotify playlist list. There's like, I just move things up that I want to make sure that I'm kind of going through. And it's a lot of like just like, here's weird 70s funk seven inches that have been collected. Did you guys look at your list that's, did Spotify send you your year end list? Yes. Here's the thing. And how did you feel about it? I'm not trying to air her out. She's the most important person I've ever met. But my wife has ruined my Spotify algorithm. Oh, okay. So there's just like a lot of Shnato Conner in here. That's because you won't. allow her to have her own Spotify profile? Right. It's just like the family that listens together, loves together, I guess.

You earlier, though, before cameras started rolling said, women shouldn't use computers. It's true. It's right. You said, now that I'm 40, I realize women shouldn't use computers. We've made some mistakes as a culture, and it's time to begin remedying them now. I have a similar problem with people who are important to me because the message I got from Spotify suggested that my consumption of the Moana sounder was out of whack.

I mean, it was number one on my Spotify playlist as well. I'm just a childless single man. Does that strike any... No, any warning bells? You're a lyrics guy. Yeah, that's right. And I'm all in on Lynn Manwell Miranda. She's the daughter of the village chief, you know?

And her journey was... And every night I go to sleep with the rock singing me to bed. That's... What? You really do like Moana? No, it has nothing to do with the Moana Sancho. It's just... Sure.

It's just where you've chosen to lay your head. So, with all that said, all those caveats about... Our families. ...weighing quite having much joy in the world. Let's talk about it. The people who did give it. So why don't you go first, Jason? Here's your number one pick.

Okay, I'm going to really kiss ass here because first on my list, simply because as I was going through my Soderberg-style media diet, I was like, wow, I spent a tremendous amount of time joyfully listening to some of them multiple times through Mallory Rubin and Jason Concentia talk about Game of Thrones on Binge Mode. Binge mode is one of my favorite things of all of this year. That's awesome. And I listened to, like I said, every episode, you know, and was riveted. I thought they did an unbelievable job.

And I'll shout out Zach as well, who helped them out with it, right? There he is. Nice work, Zach. I thought they did an amazing job and did something that for me made this season so much more enjoyable to watch just because I felt so much more prepared and ready for it to kind of disappoint me than ever before. because of how well they had basically schooled me in not only the show's history that I've been following, you know, over the last X whatever number of years, seven years, but also like book knowledge that I never will have, never will care to have. Yeah. You know, and it really was, it was one of my favorite things to see pop up every whatever Wednesday or whatever day it came out.

And I remember there was a period of time where they were like running late some weeks and blah, and I was like, this, I'm now having an experience that I don't often have anymore, which is, where's my show? Yeah. Yeah. Hey, man, where's my show? They were acutely aware of that. You know, which I think is pretty rad. There isn't a lot of appointment viewing anymore, appointment listening in this case. And I thought they did an amazing job.

Like, here we are. It is a, it is a show that is recapping a show that has already aired. There is no urgency to it. And they are still, like, I'm still like, the minute it comes out, I need to hear them talk about season four, episode seven, you know? But also it's a really great expression of how our relationship with TV has changed, but also our relationship with specifically that show. Because Chris and I did our year in TV, and we got perhaps appropriately dinged for not including Game of Thrones in our top 10. And the truth is, at this point, if it was a top 10 list of experiences during a time a show is on the air, Game of Thrones is. is always going to be number one running away.

Because it's so fun to be a part of it and talk about it and yes, criticize it. On its own merits, if you just strip it away, I think it was a slightly disappointing season. Post-lute train. It was. It had real highlight moments, but it's like structurally wasn't satisfying in total, I didn't feel like. Yes. And I agreed with, I think maybe you, Andy, from the TV episode saying a lot of characters who should have had... Oh, this was Chris.

Oh, it was Chris. who should have had moments who we should have dug in on just didn't. Yeah. It just weirdly felt like, I think because of the enormity of the set pieces, and I could speculate that their eye was very much on the ball of like, we got to get these guys all here so that we can do this. I thought maybe those moments that everybody's like, God, I really love it when Tyrion just gets a couple of minutes in a room to shine,

felt rush clipped, however you want to say it. I would say just about binge mode, obviously there was a little bit of a conflict of interest. those two people are very, very important to us. But it's awesome to hear you say that because I think what that podcast did was, podcasts can kind of float in between this weird, like it's just the new radio and you kind of have stuff on in the background or you're like, I want to listen to Andy and Chris talk about something and whatever it is and it's just going to be on for 25 or 45 minutes. Jason and Mallory made something that was just really like transcended the kind of medium in terms of

how much you would go back to it, how much people relied on it, and how much people had invested in their investment in the show, which was. just so beautiful watch. And just how connected to it they are. You know, like for them, like, it was like their emotional connection to these stories was so important to feel. Because as much as we have spent X number of years watching it, they have spent that many more years reading and talking.

And thinking about it, yeah. And thinking about it. And that was brought to bear in the show, you know, in the podcast. How much of your appearance here today is just part of this year-long con to get on Dichita. I don't know what you mean. Exactly. No, it's fair.

I've been on the watch. I've been on Talk to Thrones. It's true. You're circling it. Have I been on Pidgement? Not yet. But I feel like I'm making my way there. You know the people who know the people.

You're boxing that in. Hey, listen, I've shared a stage with Mallory and Jason. It's true. I know they have a no double Jasons on the show. It's true. So I don't know. I don't know if I'll ever get there. Unless you shiv one of the other Jasons.

We're not saying which one. We'll see. What's your first person of the law? Let's keep it in the world of TV, and I have to talk about Kyle McClockland. Kyle McLaughlin goes on the wall for me this year. Longtime favorite of mine, obviously people know that I love Twin Peaks, and I've always loved Twin Peaks, and loved him. Huge fan of his run on How I Met Your Mother. Here's the thing.

Because he played the character that was, like, the most important character in TV for me, I have always been rooting for him. And I think we always have people that we root for in culture because we like them, or maybe we met them once, or maybe their original TV series ended in a terrible cliffhanger in which they, they are inhabited by an evil doppelganger that represents all evil. Sure. Just throwing it out there. But you always knew there was going to be this season.

It just was 18 years away or whatever. Never, 25 years, and I never thought, honestly, I had made peace with it. And so when he was in showgirls, and I was like, well, the best. It's iconic, but I sort of felt bad for him because he's really a talented actor. And he came on the podcast a few years ago. Couldn't be nicer. Yeah. What a great guy.

Super good, dude. They can't make the show. People said you can't make it without David Lynch. true. You could not have made this without Kyle McLaughlin. And one of the most exciting parts of it was that they didn't just come back for him to play that part. He played three parts and played them spectacularly well. He played a pure villain in the doppelganger. He played the original character in various states of distress and otherness. And he played this character, Dougie Jones, not the Senate candidate in Alabama, but a just slumpy guy in Vegas. And it's one of the greatest purest comedic

almost clowning performances in TV. And all of those performances were amazing, and he made my life better. My first person on the wall is Vince Staples. So not only is Vince, one of my two or three favorite rappers who are working right now, not only did I love Big Fish Theory, which is a record he put out this year, which continues to do really interesting, really unique stuff with rap without being like, I'm doing interesting and unique stuff with rap all the time, which is I think... Which is his problem with me.

Because I'm constantly bragging about. I have been listening to rap that kind of exists either in one of two, whether it's in a mainstream space or an underground space. And that stuff kind of like collapsed later on like in the 2000s. But for the most part, Vince is working on things that are heavily influenced

by UK Grime and UK Pirate Radio sounds. He's like working with James Blake. He's doing all this different stuff and is still like this just ferocious lyricist. And is also one of the only people in the world who should be allowed to have Twitter. I agree. And that seems like faint praise,

but I often am like, I don't really understand how to be in this world anymore. Like, I don't really know, like, how do I want to, like, project myself to people? I guess that's sort of stupid since I'm on microphone most of the time. But I look at somebody like Vince, who is able to routinely tweet things like Eminem has Assassin's Creed flow. And I'm just like, I don't know how you do it, man.

I don't know how you have the bars. and then you also have the Twitter bars. He's funny. Some people were made for these times, is what you're saying. I'm just thankful for him. So thank you to Vince Staples for being you. Vince Staples is my first person on the wall.

Jason, who's number two for you? I'm going to go, a Brooklyn band called Big Thief put out a record this year called Capacity. Okay. I love this. I don't know. This is a tip.

Oh, really? I don't know this band. Oh, that makes me feel even better. Preach. I love this band. They are great. I saw them in, I saw them in like some weird old converted church.

in Highland Park this year. They put out this beautiful record that's just, and it is, it's full of like heartbreaking songs. Oh, is this a sad thing? Yeah. Well, like, all of my music is like devastatingly sad songs. Yeah. Is there any, does it ever happen that you have something like that

on your headphones and you're in a, you're in a more contemplative place? Sure. And then perhaps someone approaches you and wants you to be on in a different way? Oh, well, I had this happen the other night. the worst juxtaposition of this. Great. I do a podcast called How Did This Get Made? And we did it live at the Ace Hotel here downtown L.A.

You do live podcasts without us? We do. I'm so sorry. Guys, I am so sorry. I, aye, aye. So, and I'm driving to that, I'm driving to that show. And it's like a beautiful L.A. night. And I put on another one of my favorite records of the year,

Phoebe Bridger's record. And there's a song on that called Smoke Signals that I think is devastating. and I put that song on repeat only and cried for the entire drive from my house to a comedy show. What was the movie you guys were doing? Oh, the movie was Valerian. Oh, my God. The Valerian in the city of a thousand planets. It was not good.

I have an update. It is two hours and 20 minutes of in. It's as if there's a person off camera with a remote. It's like click. with a remote control who's just like, oh no, I want this movie to instead be this every 15 minutes. And the whole movie changes. It is nuts. It is so weird.

I cried the entire way there listening to Phoebe Bridgers, who is an L.A. singer-songwriter guitarist, amazing, another amazing record. And wept openly. I was like, what is happening to me? Something is wrong. Wow. Yeah. And then it had to be funny.

How was the show? Not good. Terrible. It is great. It was great. But I was like, I really had to be like, okay, okay, because it was like Sunday. Yeah. And I had like a, just like a lonely Sunday at home.

And then like went and it was like, okay, I got to connect with people. I got to, okay, okay, I remember. And it was super, it was wild. I'm going to pick another musician. I'm going to pick someone who was also on our podcast this year. I felt like we had to have a slot for someone on the podcast and it would just be weird to pick Jason. Sure. Since he's sitting here judging us for it.

Katie Crutchfield from Waxahatchee. Oh, yeah. I love that record. The Waxhaggy album Out of the Storm, one of the best records of the year. And also, for me, this was a year of musical mismatches for me. We think we're going to do a podcast at some point before the end of the year, specifically about records and songs that we loved. But I found, I'm struggling trying to figure out whether this was an exceptionally weak or mediocre

year for music in general, or if it was just a year in which what I wanted for music wasn't there, because what I was looking for was impossible. And maybe I wasn't willing to go full darkness, which is... And that's very true. Like my list musically is like so monotone in its like modeling tone. And I kept looking for something to like meet my mood and I wasn't finding it. And then it was also another tough year for the rockers and the guitars in general. This Waxahatchie record, to your point, Jason, like it is, it's redolent with 90s guitar sounds and things that just mainline right to our brains.

But it also felt completely alive, particularly so. in this year. This is an album that came out earlier in the year and half the songs are just about being undermined and taken advantage of in ways not just physical, but emotional or mental by creepy dudes at the indie rock concerts. Or not even

creepy dudes at the indie rock concerts. Frankly, we said this to when we get it on the pod. Dudes who are maybe just sitting there like, you know, doing the drumming on their sternum and just feeling it and feeling like we're feeling it, but the wives and girlfriends and friends, they're not feeling it in the same way. And it was such a rejoinder to records that meant a lot to us. And

I think meant a lot to Katie, too, and expanded the conversation and expanded the debate, but also the record just goes. And I think she deserves a spot for that alone. So for my second pick, I'm going to cheat a little bit by putting two people in there. Okay. This is one of those times, and Jason should be aware of it, there are no rules. Yes. This is a completely artificial construct.

My number two slot, which goes to two people, and those two people are Merritt Weaver and Scoot McNary. Okay. Godless. Not only for Godless. Oh, okay. So Merritt Weaver, it is for Godless, Merit Weaver has had a, like, Ted Dansonian career on TV. Dansonian is great.

Well, she's just been in everything that's good. You know, I mean, she's been on New Girl. She's been on Walking Dead. She's, you know, she was on Nurse Jackie for a long time, won an Emmy for that, I believe. But, you know, is one of those people who are just like, damn, I'm really just happy to see Merit Weaver in this show. But I don't know ever if she got a shot to play something

like the character Mary Agnes that she plays in Godless, which is essentially, she's a gunslinger. She plays a quick draw, tough talking, Western gunslinger. And also in this show is Scoot McNary.

Before you, Scoot McNary, Jason, do you want to weigh in on working with the most Dansonian person of all Ted Danson? Oh, yeah. Is it like working with Merritt Weaver

in a lot of ways? It's pretty wild. It was great. I worked with Ted Danson just this year on The Good Place. And it was, I'd never met him. I showed up for the first table read.

Because, again, I've never met him. I showed up for the first table read. But I do know almost everybody else on that show either comes out of the same UCB comedy scene I do or I've worked with them on something else or whatever. So I knew most of the other people. And so I was in that instance just meeting Ted. And I was like, hi, Ted, nice to be. And it's all like hubbub before a table

read. I was like, oh, it's nice to meet you, Ted. How are you? And he goes, well, I've heard you're explosively funny. And I was like, we'll see. And then we did the table reads. You're like, I'm listening to Big Thief Alde. So probably not. I don't know. I am openly He's like being in my car all the time. And then after the table read, he goes, okay, I see it. I see it. And it was very funny. He was awesome.

Because I wondered, because you and Darcy, who you had all your scenes with, you come out of the UCB scene together, you're doing your thing. You guys are playing on that show, which was wonderful on the show. And he comes from a different background and training. All those guys do. And he was very, like, and he was excited. You know, like, there's something about, like, being given the opportunity to improvise, you know, without, within the, the safety of people who are comfortable doing it. Not just like, well, let's open it up.

And then everybody's like, wait, what? But like for him to just be part of those scenes with Darcy and I and be able to just play around, like, it was fun. It was like, you got a sense of like, oh, this is exciting. But that show, you know, I think I said this before we started. Like, there are a number of things that I would have highlighted on my list or would put in my, on my wall that I am reluctant to simply because I am on those. I made, like, the good place, season one was one of my favorite shows of last year, you know, and I was, like, and my, like, I had such an emotional reaction to Mike asking me to, Mike, sure the creator asking me to be on it. I was blown away. And so the, the, to get to do it with all those people, so exciting. So let's talk a little bit about Scoot's 2017. Yeah, I was sure. Jump in on that too. Scoot is. I do not watch halt and catch fire.

high usage. It doesn't matter. He's in a lot of other stuff. How about starts this year in a little scene film called sleepless. Okay. With Jamie Fox and TI as detectives who are also robbing drug dealers. Yeah. And this is Jamie Fox's taken, right? Yes. And Scoot and then they took in his kid. Yeah. They took in Jamie Fox's kid. Oh, you don't do that. And Scoot plays a sober Coke dealer in Vegas. Okay. That's probably a smart choice. to like, you know, make ends meet in some, like, he's like over leveraged. Can I just pause here? So he's, I got to get, let me get through the synopsis here.

What Coke dealer is having trouble making money in Vegas? Yeah. What Coke dealer is sober in Vegas? Yeah. Okay. And he's a great questions. This is the podcast for him. He is trying to make ends meet by making a buy from Dermit Mulroney, who plays a casino

manager. That movie is wild. He was also in War Machine. Yeah. He was in Halt and Catch Fire. And he was also in, oh, well, Batman versus Superman was the end of last year. But I think that he's just had this incredible year. Oh, he was in Fargo.

He was incredible in Fargo. He had a great, great one episode run in Fargo. I should say people are also asking why we didn't talk more about Halt and Catch Fire. I think it's because two-thirds to this table didn't watch it. I didn't, yeah. I auditioned for the Scoot McNary part in Halton Catch Fire. Did you really? Are you serious?

Yeah. What was that like? It was great. I read it and was like, this is awesome. It was such a great pilot script. Oh my God. What a if? And I was like, I really, like, I really, like, I really, I like, I,

I chased that hard. Yeah. Wow. But he was like, already, like, straight up a movie star. What other Scoot McNary roles do you think

you would have been a better fit for? The first time I saw Scoot McNary and was like, and genuinely was like, I don't know who this dude is, but he's fucking awesome, was, and I'm going to space the name of the movie.

It's him, Brad Pitt and Ben Mendelson. It's the first time I saw Scoot McNary and Ben Mendelssohn. Yeah, it was that, it was that, um... It wasn't a great movie. Yeah,

where he was a... He was a... Heroin to the Velvet Underground's heroin. Which, it was like wearing a... wearing a band's t-shirt to the concert. I didn't love that movie, but I remember being like, oh, it's a cool, like, atmospheric crime movie

and being like, oh, Brad Pitt's doing a good job, but having no idea who those other two dudes were being, like, blown away by Scoot McNary, and then Ben Mendelsohn was like, I was like, I think I'm watching something, like a magic trick happened. I think that dude is like next level. Yes. But Scoot, in Godless. Just say he is incredible on Holden Catch Fun.

It is a slow burn of a performance. He gets his ISO plays on this season as well. The show didn't make my list. I should tell people, I just felt like the season lacked a certain. The stakes were weird. It was the finale. It was beautiful. The performances were great.

It lacked the urgency to me that I needed to put in the top stand. I want you to now attend all major Hall of Fame inductions. And just as Tim Raines is about to go into the baseball event, you're just like, I just want to let you know I did not watch the Montreal Expos, but I am okay with this. Can I ask you very quickly? And I'm sorry to interrupt you, Chris. Now that it is done.

Yeah. Should I watch it in its entirety? Is it a satisfying watch? Yes. Great. That's all I need to know. My whole thing about that show was people were so stressed. There's too much TV to watch, and I would tell people they didn't have to watch the first season.

Because the show, quantum leap. That's how I feel about leftovers as well. I agree. I have to return to that because I abandon it in season one. Right. I almost did as well. Season two and three are incredible. Yes, I know.

And Hald and Catch Fire becomes a different show in two, three, and four. And if you are a completist, and now you know you can budget your time accordingly, you know how many hours there are. Yep. Watch it all. Totally. Absolutely. All right, we're going to get to the last two people for each of us on our wall.

Let's just take a quick break to hear from our sponsors. Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by Zell. Zell is the new way to send money to your friends and family from your banking app. Cash is easy to lose, and checks take a while to clear. But with Zell, once you're enrolled, the money moves right between bank accounts and typically arrives in minutes. You pay your share for dad's gift, you request half the cost of the Christmas tree you bought with your roommate, or you pay that personal trainer you hired after Thanksgiving when you had too much stuffing, all thanks to Zell. It's easy to use and works with

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My number three is Amy Sedaris. Nice. Who has had quietly like a pretty fantastic year. She is on, and this is another part where I have to say that I am also, I'm going to, promote something that I am also in. She's terrific on a show on CBS All Access called No Activity. That's an Australian format

that they redid for American Television. And she's in it and is fantastic. She is fantastic on her show, the show that she has on True TV that is like a almost like a hosting kind of weird show that's totally

perfectly Amy Sedaris. And then she turned into me one of the best performances on TV this year, most heartbreaking performances on TV this year on BoJack Horseman, this season of Bojack, where her character is, like, the whole season of Bojack this year is about kids and parents and aging and all of this stuff. And her character is going through this incredibly devastating process of trying to get pregnant and continuing to have miscarriages and unable to get a pregnancy to hold. And that, the kind of, the kind of

character's journey throughout and what this does to her is just devastating in the midst of what is honestly like one of the funniest shows on television. Yeah. You know, they quietly are doing almost every season are ratcheting up not only what a solid creative joke machine this show is, but what an absolutely devastating piece of like, uh, uh, of, of, of just heartbreaking, uh, melancholy. They, you know, from her storyline this year to just like really digging in on the Wendy Malick character's dementia. Yeah. To the point where there's a whole episode that is just from the point of view of someone with dementia, wherein like time, wherein her character is staying the same, but everything around her is changing. So like she is, she is in having a conversation in one moment with who she thinks is her husband,

in another moment with someone that is clearly her son and that. the present tense, and then it will be like a white, just void. And that was just, like, chilling and upsetting, and it was great. This is a tough thing to say for this podcast, but Big Year for Cartoons. Yeah. You know, Chris has a hard and fast rule. We don't talk about cartoons on this show. Oh, yeah.

But Big Mouth show that you're on. Great. Really funny, boundary-pushing show in a lot of ways, but also quite moving, I think. Yeah, really heartfelt and sweet. Yeah. And people love that Rick and Morty, man. Dude, it's on my list. of that too. Yeah, it's on my list. That is like, and I think that kind of speaks to, for me,

the desire for escape, you know, is, like, I want to watch Rick and Morty. I want to watch, like, really well-thought-out, deep, like, level sci-fi that is also just crazy hilarious. Yeah. And relatively short, compared to some of these other things. It feels doable at the end of a punishing day. I watched all of Rick and Morty. I watched all of BoJack. I watched all of Bob's Burgers. You're like, and I did not watch Mind Hunter. You know what I mean? Right. And I will.

I'm like, and I'm certain I'm going to love it. But it didn't seem as I was like, I want to watch these other things. You can come back on the show when you have. I will. Because. Absolutely. Because frankly, this is the place. Who's number three for you?

Greta Gerwig. Oh, nice. Lady Bird, Chris and I've talked about repeatedly. We had Lori McHaff on the podcast to talk about it. I just, there are many movies, particularly movies that are hyped or beloved and you go into expecting something that fade a little bit in. your mind and your memory afterwards. You enjoyed it while you were there, but maybe it doesn't hold up, or maybe you start poking holes in it. I think that Lady Bird is a little, kind of a,

it's a magic trick because it remained, I remain enchanted by it after having seen it. And in fact, the parts that are sticking with me aren't the, are the parts that I wouldn't expect to, the parts that are harder and tougher than people who, who have heard about the movie and maybe are expecting just a generally, you know, maybe a pleasant nostalgia trip or a movie about high school. This is a, This is a strong movie. It's a tough movie about people and about people becoming people. And I just think it's incredible that she directed this film. It's her first movie.

I'm going to go for number three with an oldie but a goodie. Oh, yeah. 86 years young, John LeCarray. Wow. Interesting. So released his umpteenth novel. I don't even know. It's Legacy of Spies.

He has had to sort of grapple with, in the course of his life. He's seen the Cold War. seen the fall of the Berlin Wall. He has seen sort of the rise of the international terror state or whatever you want to call it and grappled with that. And now he's sort of looking at not only the era we live in now of terms of disinformation in terms of the sort of reheating of the Cold War, but also the gut check that's gone on among intelligence services, governments, and people of his generation about what happened and how they went about doing the way they did things. in the past. And aside from that, he's the most, he's my favorite writer. He just writes sentences and writes characters and writes conversations and you'll be reading and you'll just realize

this is a scene in which two people, one person sitting across from another, the one person is reading something that he wrote 30 years ago and is remembering what it was like to write that, yet it's also the document that he is reading and a outside narration of the actual events that are being played out that weren't in the document, but that he chose to redact from it. And And, you know, I think that obviously there's a degree of genre excitement that goes along with the spies, with everything that happens, the cloak and dagger stuff. But in a weird way, nothing has prepared me more for the terrible state of the world than this guy. And I guess for that I have to thank him. And just been, it was a legacy of spies I had very low expectations for. You just don't really expect a fastball from an 86-year-old. And it was remarkable. Can I say, I just want to support your point, probably my favorite appearance on fresh air this year. That's very on brand for me to say. Terry Gross always on my wall. Yeah, who's your favorite fresh air hit of the year?

I'm just, let's take a peek into the NPR hood for a minute. We're all fresh airheads here, right? Jason, who's number four? Last one. One of the people that I, like, consumed a lot of material from this year that I love is Action Bronson. Yeah. I think his show, fuck, that's delicious, is just, I like that he is, he has inserted himself into our world as an agent of chaos.

Yeah. In a pretty terrific way. In a chaotic world, I like that he's entering, you know, he came, you know, listen, as a hip-hop artist, I think he's interesting and compelling. You know, does he sound like ghost face? Yes, he does. But I still enjoy his albums. I'm still, like, I'm still on board for him as an artist. But, like, I find his stuff on Fuck That's Delicious.

And I don't know if you guys have watched at all. Every episode multiple times. His late night talk show. Yeah. That is one of the most interesting bits of insanity I've ever seen. And the fact that it is on television makes me thrilled. That they are just pointing cameras at a big open room and people are getting high and cooking food and dancing and playing music.

And it is... Sweating profusely. Chaos. Yeah. It is indulgent chaos and I love it. If someone's looking for a fuck that's delicious to start with, I can't recommend more highly the New York episode. Oh, my God.

The one where they're eating Peter Lugar's out in the parking lot. Is the Jewish guy at the batting cages? It is... Don't you think there's also something beautiful about... This doesn't happen so often, but when someone enters the culture with one thing. Yeah. And then the culture says, we like you?

Yeah. This is good. But what we really like is something that you love even more. Totally. And like, how great to be like, I'm rapping. And rapping is, that's a tough feel to make it in. But he's like, I also really like to eat. I also...

And they're like, hooray for you. It is the intersection of things that I love in a great way because you will, it's as if like a stoned, hilarious maniac has just been dropped into an episode of Chef's Table. Yes. You know? Which is what Chef's Table needs, by the way. It is a little too austere.

But like, you know what I really want? Like, I want to see Massimo have to deal with a stoned out of his brain action Bronson. Not just like Massimo being like, I get to be Massimo. You know what I mean? It's like, no, now wrangle this. Right. Also, as we reach certain ages in our life, and Chris reached it recently, so I think we should highlight that. But, you know, what we're looking for out of our life changes

slightly and our priorities shift. And Jason, we talked about this, maybe even on Mike, that when I ran into you and Nick and you were going up to San Francisco to do a festival, I'm sure you had a great time at the festival. The crowd loved it. You liked doing comedy with your pals. Loved it. But the headline for you at this point was, I got to go to San Francisco and go to good restaurants. Oh, yeah. State bird provisions, baby. So what if you could just tweak the ratio? And you were going to San Francisco to do that. you take that deal, right? Absolutely.

Oh, oh, absolutely. This is what I'm saying. You know, I just was in New York and went to the grill. Holy cow. Yeah. Great restaurant. But you didn't go just to go to the grill, right? Oh, no.

You had to do, you had to go laugh. Exactly. Exactly. And I love, I just love Bronson's, like, presence. I love what he's doing. I love him when he shows up on other stuff. I like, I like that he is just kind of collapsing the walls into other people. other people's things.

He's one of the few like tolerable 360 personalities. You know, and then you'll see something like I was clicking through on Vicerland once and saw he has a show where he and his friends just watched the TV show Ancient Aliens. Stoned on a couch. It's just them watching a TV show. And it's nuts and hilarious.

And then he just started this show. They're already like 30 episodes into it. They just started a couple months ago that is a late night talk show on Vicerland that is double chaos. It is untethered madness. Yeah. And it is delightful. If all the ponies to put everything in on,

Vicerland chose the right one. Oh, it's great. He's their guy. Absolutely. I really enjoyed that. It's number four for you. I think I have to put Gail Gadat on my list. Mostly because I wanted to use... Gald.

Godot? Do you mean Gald Gadot? Because you said Gail Gadot. Gaud. I'm 100% you're sure. You said Gail. Gadot. Let's say it with me again.

It's GAL. Yes, but Gadot. Let me talk you through my appreciation. Keep in mind, I am not Jewish. And you are. It's a strong counter. But sure, tell me about this Gail Gaddott. She's my travel agent.

I like that I can hear Zach laughing from the other room. Here's the problem with saying that name out loud on a microphone. First of all, you're welcome for taking a risk. Sure. This has been a very safe podcast so far. I read recently that in the correct Israeli pronunciation, it's really all about the hint of the tea at the end. And I was so focused on getting there, I didn't care about what. what rude I took.

Yeah. And I took the wrong one. Oh, yeah. I'm not going to say her name again. But what I am going to say is that every few years, celebrity culture produces someone who is fresh and beautiful and deserving of it and nothing about it seems terrible. And that's very rare. And Wonder Woman was a lot of fun. Oh, yeah.

And her performance is fantastic. And it was a big hit. And I feel like we needed that this year. Yep. And then we got that GQ profile of her where she wrestled Katie Weaver on the sand using her masad training. Oh, I didn't know. I didn't see this.

Fed her hummus. And it just generally seems like a terrific person. Also, seems to have gotten Brett Radner effectively fired from movies. Yeah, right? So win, win, win, win. Totally. And I think she deserves a place. Whatever her name be.

Here's what I'll say. Here's what I'll say about Gah Gaudot, or Gail Gadot, as you call it. Good old Gail. Here's what I, here's, for you and for many people, she will be Wonder Woman. She will be Diana. For me, she will always be. Giselle from the Fast and Furious Furious. You had her

first. I watched her die and I wept in Fast 6. Holy cow. So for me as much as I loved Wonder Woman which genuinely loved Wonder Woman, I thought it was one of my favorite movies of the year. And I thought she was perfect and effortless in both the

action and the comedy. She and Pine were great together. She is still to me, Jazeel. We'll always be Jazeel. R-I-P, Giselle, baby. At this point, are you surprised when you see people be funny when you, when they,

like, we didn't expect, who knew Chris Pine was funny? Chris Pine is funny. Yes, I was not surprised Chris Pine was funny. But Giselle, I forget the name of the actress who plays her. Gail Gaudot, I believe, is her name.

I've heard it pronounced recently. That sounds right to me. Let's go with that. Good old Gail. But are you surprised when people who, you know, maybe don't come from a UCB world, they're not used to being comedic performers.

Like, what is it about them that allows them to be? Well, people are funny. You know what I mean? Like, people can be funny. They're funny. That's the thing is, like, you don't have to be trained to be funny. You don't, like, there are funny people everywhere. Right.

It takes a certain type of funny person to be like, I should be paid for this. And that is, that is, those are maniacs. Like, these are crazy people. Most people are like, yeah, I'm funny, but like, I'm going to, like, do something with my life. Right. But other people are like, I'm funny. That's it. And those are the kind of people you find weeping in their car on a Sunday evening.

Yes. On their way to a comedy show. On their way to do a comedy show listening to one song. It takes a certain type. So number four, I was going to put in, I was going to say Reese Witherspoon. Yeah, but. But she's already on the wall. Our inaugural wall from the Granland days.

She's the queen. So I want to fire up an old chestnut from earlier in the year on the watch. Zach, I need the violin. it's time to go back to Tabu Island. Wow. This is an audible in the moment. Tom Hardy is going on the wall. And here is why.

Tom or chips? No, Tom. Not chips? It's a package deal. It's a package deal. I'm sure you will get chips in executive producer credit on this picture.

This nomination is co-created by Chips Hardy. Obviously, we got a lot of different looks from Tom Hardy this year. Right? We got taboo, which I think even me, who may be the most charitable viewer of Taboo thought muted some of his natural charm. Oh, okay.

Got it. But in Dunkirk, he basically wears a mask the entire time. He's done it before in a movie. He is not even, I would say, has like three or four lines of dialogue outside of banking left. He's on your back. I'll come around. But is responsible for the most moving and beautiful and like inspiring moment in film

that I saw this year, which. is his silent dying plane coasting down the coastline and landing and then him lighting the plane on fire and just standing there watching it, which for some reason to me is the most resonant image of the year. Also, and this is not a spoiler, is rumored to play a stormtrooper in Last Jedi. Oh, really? Which is just like, like Daniel Craig in the last one? Yeah. So I have a soft spot for Tom Hardy. I know that obviously taboo is divisive, but I also think It's just, we should always be commending Tom Hardy because there are few actors.

I mean, maybe James Franco is one of them, but he just makes really weird choices. He is currently filming Venom. Oh, yeah, I'm aware. Based on a really probably over-the-top Spider-Man villain from the Todd McFarlane era of the 90s. Oh, yeah. Most notable for its giant slithering alien space tongue.

And he's just like, this is the right role for me. And rows and rows of sharp teeth. And they don't even have Spider-Man anymore, right? And once again, in a... Right, and they've given Spider-Man basically over to Marvel, so Spider-Man's not in this film. Oh, yeah. And it's a character, once again, who is primarily hidden for the entire...

And who looks like Spider-Man. Venom is like a... Venom, like, if you can picture Spider-Man in the black suit, the black suit itself is Venom. Came alive. That is the symbiote, you know? And that's what's crazy. There are...

We live in a... We live in a tarnished era for many things, but it is a golden age of, like, the Hollywood Reporter Deep-Dive on something. Sure. It's like, how did this happen? I wish we're not there yet, but I wish the Hollywood reporter could be like inside Tom Hardy's decision-making. Sure.

Like his power structure, what his agents told him and then what he's, and the moment he told him, you know, my dad and I are going to do this instead. That's not an insignificant amount of why I've said this. Because the other person who I was thinking about was Robert Pattinson. It was in two of my favorite movies this year, Law City of Z in Good Time. Sure. And he is unrecognizable in both. And he is not particularly likable in good time.

I mean, you wind up pulling for him, but it is a complicated role. And in Law City of Z, he plays this. bookish sidekick to Charlie Hunnam. But watching these guys and these actors sort of reinvent themselves who are sort of, they, like Tom Hardy and Robert Pattinson could be going for every big role in movies right now and probably have a punner's chance of getting it. But he was just like,

I want to do interesting, weird character. Oh yeah. And it's kind of fascinating to watch. And they do for as weird as the choices they make, more often than not, they make the right one. Well, they also have gotten them,

in very smart ways, they've gotten themselves into positions where they can then. make lots of weird choices, where they can turn around, and Tom Hardy can be like, yeah, I want to do lock. I want to do a whole movie where I'd never leave the car.

Talk about the poor. Yeah. I really like that movie. Yeah, I did too until a certain point. But I like it. The point in the car? And I was like, wait a minute. We're just driving in this car.

We're talking about concrete for like 80 minutes, man. And that's what I like about both those guys. Is they then, I think, front positions of power and access are allowed to be like, oh, now let me make really interesting, weird choices. I have a question, though, for you, because you've finished your list.

Yeah. What about Bono, though? It's true. Great call. Thank you. What about Bono, though? I mean, we're talking, like, this year we got Bono in a tub. Tubbed up?

Tubbs up Bwano. Bono is underutilized. I agree. I agree. You know, I think she had, like, there was that moment last in the first season where Mike comes home and she hugs him, and it's like this really incredible,

it's probably one of the most touching moments of the series. They really just shunted her off inside and then had that weird tongue moment. All the parents kind of went away. Can I make a suggestion that will not be taken and probably shouldn't for financial or creative reasons? But I kind of wish they would just do a bottle episode about what those parents do all day. Well, evil demons are fighting their children in the streets. The smart thing would be to just only do that. Oh, you mean just Mike's parents, right?

Yes. Boino and the dad. Oh, good, good. I thought you meant all the parents in town. I think you're right. Just those two parents. Just like their day. doing her, like, eating it. Like, have you heard about this kid who got sucked into it?

I was just, do you want tuna for lunch today, honey? That sounds good. It should be a worst. Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf level argument that they're in, in the house? And the kids are just entering an exit. There's a way to look at the show, and I won't argue that this is the correct way to look at the show, but there's a way to look at the show that is just a brutal indictment of their parenting. No, it was like they let their kids rock, man.

That's 80s parenting. That's 80s parenting. Their free-range kid. Their daughter drove to another town. to sleep with a guy at a conspiracy theorist flop house. They weren't even interested. My mom used to get mad at me if I wouldn't leave the house by 10 a.m. My mom's mad at me right now, and I don't even know why.

She was like, you're wasting a beautiful day. My mom just called me and said, it's time for dinner. You're like, it's three hours earlier here. Do you have to FaceTime her to prove that you're eating? That I'm with friends. It's okay. On my list should have been, because I thought of it only late, too late. Tika Waititi.

Oh, good call. I thought he did such a phenomenal job. I'm so mad you pronounced that correctly, by the way. You prepared for this podcast. No, I didn't. I thought he did. And listen, I'm a fan of Tycho Waititi from the jump, you know, from Eagle versus Shark. Or, you know, all of the stuff he did before coming here, I hunt for the wilder people.

I think he's just tremendous. And then what he brought to what his, for me, me been one of the least interesting Marvel character movie series, the Thor series, um, revolutionized a character that they have misunderstood and misused. And I thought Thor, Ragnarok was one of my favorite movies of the year, one of the most fun movies of the year. And Tycan not only delivered in terms of like a great big spectacle filled, great, uh, story, uh, classic kind of, uh, Marvel space story, Marvel, you know, you know, Thor's story, and then also made it hilarious, and I'm going to say, not only did

I love what he did as a director, but like the character he played, that character made of rock, Corby. That guy was hilarious. Was hilarious and was just relentlessly funny. And so Tyco would always, would also be. Corg. Corg. He talked about Doug, new Doug.

Oh, yeah. I think that one bright spot of culture going from this year into next year is the sudden sense that maybe talented creators can't. grab the reins of these corporate entertainments that are going to be made regardless. If you think about Logan, going into Thor, going into a movie that we're not talking about because we don't want to spoil you in any way, but the culture will know what we're talking about by the time this post. Hopefully Black Panther.

Yes. How good does that look? It looks great. Couglar, baby. Do we wish that all of these multinational corporations were funding these directors and these creators to do these things separate and apart from their IP advancement? Sure. but if these are the sandboxes they're given,

at least let them play. Yeah, absolutely. And that's kind of exciting. I missed your 40th birthday party. That's okay. A happy birthday. Thank you. I felt bad.

I felt bad that I didn't make it. And I felt bad so I wanted to get you something. Oh my God. Chris Ryan, I have watched Ozark. Did you know this is coming too? Isn't that great? Did you guys know this is coming? Take this now with a grain of salt because I have watched not even as much as Andy.

Okay. Yeah. But I, in the last. three days. Oh, you did this recently. Right. In the last three days, knowing I was coming here, thank you. I watched Ozark. Thank you. And by the way, it's great. It's great. It's a lot of fun. It wouldn't make the wall for me. It's not what it's not, but I, I'm really enjoying this. Yes. I will finish this series. Three. Three. I will finish this series. It's terrific. Yeah. And every, and as much as you talked about it prior. Yeah. I was like, I don't know,

I don't know. And I was like, you know what? That would be great. That's the nicest thing that you could possibly have given me from my fourth. There you go. Happy birthday. Thank you so much. All right, let's wrap it up for Jason Ansukas and Andy Greenwald. I'm Chris Ryan. Thank you for listening to another year of Watch podcasts. We can't wait to talk to you in 2018. Happy New Year, Bernskis.

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