The Watch - 'Andor' Episode 11, Plus 'Bluey' Creator Joe Brumm!

Episode Date: November 17, 2022

Chris and Andy talk about the penultimate episode of 'Andor,' and what they could possibly be building up to for the finale (1:00). Then, Andy is joined by Joe Brumm, the creator of the animated series 'Bluey,' to talk about what makes the show so special (30:29) and how he manages to write every episode (49:24). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Guest: Joe Brumm Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com and joining me on the other line, making a latent life move towards chandrilling traditionalism. It's Andy Greenwald. It's a rich tapestry. You know what I mean? Because Chris, I've been culturally chandrilling for a long time.

I know. That's the thing. But I think now, My kids deserve the backbone of religious tradition that being born on that planet of child brides has given me. I had no idea that they had the House of the Dragon routine going down in Chandraela, Chandralia? Where's that planet? Chandrilar? I don't know.

We're going to talk about Andor. We've got some special surprises. Let's set the table because I do want to talk about how I don't understand the name of the planet that Monmothma is from, but this is my favorite TV show. I feel like that divide is worth poking around on a little bit. Yeah. I wanted to ask you, how's your quest for Taylor Swift tickets going? Did you get into the Capital One Venture Plus room? Or did you engage Senator Richard Blumenthal to bring down Ticketmaster?

Yeah. I'm making this a people's revolt. You know what I mean? I think Andor has inspired me in a lot of ways. And I feel like telling the story of the Taylor Swift Empire being taken down by the common person who wants to go to one of the nine shows at the forum. Yeah. Like the mothers and fathers of teenage daughters

will do what Pearl Jam could not. Yes. And bring ticket master to its knees. And I want to be clear. Like, I really like Taylor Swift. But I, and I know that there are younger people who really, really like Taylor Swift. But don't sleep on just the moms.

Do you know what I mean? I don't want to paint with too large of a brush. I'm really thinking about a dear friend of ours. who signed up for a capital one credit card three weeks ago solely for the purpose of early access, for herself, and oh, yes, the kids too. Do you know what I mean? Like that's... Did that work out?

No. But that did what Alec Baldwin, for years of labor, did not, just in terms of really moving people towards a certain credit card. It doesn't seem that, I don't know. Is this, nobody wants my take on this. I just feel like... Do you actually have a take on this? Maybe we'll just test me on this

Because my feeling is I would like to see a Taylor Swift concert show Is that what they're called? And that makes me unique on this podcast, I think. I would like to take my daughters to one But I'm not sweating it. I'm feeling about this the way I felt about the midterms, baby. It's all going to work out.

It's going to be fine. I think I'll be at the forum for 919, you know? Do you know what this does remind me of? What? And this could just be my quickly approaching the last, light at the end of the tunnel of my mortality. So like all the caveats that like this might be just like, I'm getting older take.

Yeah. But it does feel like fucking everything is just too hard, man. Oh. You know? Listen, this is the right podcast for that. Now, when we used to rock up and we were like, you know what? I really want to go see the Octung Baby Show. You know, you just have to camp out somewhere or like you get your parents to do it or

whatever and you'd have to like wait online to get those tickets or maybe there was a phone number to call. I do want to put a pin in get your parents to do it. We'll circle back. Well, I didn't. I mean, I, whatever the case was. I'm not saying that. It just seemed like that was like a very direct line. It was like you if you want something, you line up for it and you purchase it. If you're one of the first people, it'd be there. Do you have nostalgia for the first iPhone drop? This is unreal. No, but like I also have I don't, don't you have nostalgia for turning on a television and having a show be there? Wow. Wow, dad. Do you know what I'm saying? So it's like, I just feel like this is an example of like having to be in the Capital One Venture Suite to get the opportunity to pay however many hundred dollars to sit in the nosebleeds to watch Taylor Swift, which sounds like a fucking fun night.

It does seem like we are making everything incredibly difficult for ourselves these days. Oh, it sucks. It sucks. And it also is the ever increasing, you know, this is just the web of late stage capitalism that we find ourselves bound up in. collapsing on itself. Yeah. It is absolutely meaningless and garbage, but also, as we've read a lot recently, touring for musicians is fucking impossible right now.

It's impossible. There have been a lot, like Lord wrote a thoughtful piece about it. Any interview you have, it came up in my talk with Tegan and Sarah, which I know you listen to, that basically, like, after two or three years of COVID, they're not raising ticket prices. Like, people aren't going to pay more for a ticket to go to Irving Plaza to see whatever, but everything costs three times as much. and then inevitably someone's going to get sick

and something gets canceled. And so you're lucky if you could barely break even. Nothing's working. Nothing's working, which is why my vote for Kerry Lake for governor of Arizona meant so much to me. I got to tell you, you know, we don't do enough,

we don't give our, like, our listeners enough flowers on this show. And sometimes, sometimes they really come through and somebody has been, somebody added me, I have to go back and look and see who it is, but somebody added me on Twitter,

an app that's just, you know, it's still a number of, one in my use of rate, uh, to let me know that in 2013, Carrie Lake basically spent her time live tweeting breaking bad. Right.

And was actually, and you can't fucking make this up. Was a huge Todd guy. Carrie Lake was just like, like justice for Todd. So, but here's the problem. Yeah.

I kind of was too. Yes. And look at the, look at the paths the two of you. took from that moment. I know. I know. That's, that's beautiful. I do think the embarrassment of earlier internet should not just be the scourge of people who like have their college articles posted or, you know, like, used to be real deep in the television without pity message. Problematic Halloween photos. Yeah. Yeah. I do, I do think it should just be like politicians should be

held to task for their incorrect takes on culture. This is how we fucked up the internet. though, is that that used to be a completely acceptable thing for what I imagine she was then like a television journalist or a television news host was just like, you know what, I'm going to get on Twitter and I'm just going to get off these tweets that are just about the thing that I am watching right now. They're not supposed to be time capsule like takes forever or like constantly commenting on on various like aspects of public life. It was just like justice for Todd. Yeah, look at the best use of Twitter. Chris, when I look back on my time on truly this century's premier social media platform. I don't think about the smaller moments,

you know, like the time Michael Ian Black added me or the time I helped with the student uprising in Egypt by posting a note of solidarity. You know, I don't think about those times. What I think about is a day, and I want to say like 2010, when I got caught in a thunderstorm in Manhattan, and I kept people real, real in the know. Do you know what I mean? Like, I was the Doppler 50,000 about that day. Where did this rain come from? I was like, what?

It gets really raining, guys. It's dark outside. And I went to a different coffee shop and I was like, well, just missed that. You won't believe what it's doing outside right now. And people were like, thank you. Crying emoji. You know what I mean? Like people were, people understood my bravery.

That was my profile and courage. By the way, this is my favorite podcast we've ever done for a number of reasons already. One, I think. It's very telling that though we are recording, we're recording this podcast, this is going to air on Thursday. We're recording it in two parts. We've teased heavily the part that we're going to record now.

We have not mentioned the two pieces. Yeah, you've done nothing. You've really contributed very little. We've not at all touched on the two things that are going to make this podcast tomorrow. Are you referring to my two-hour interview with Carrie Lake about the ending of Breaking Bad? Should I do some image rehab for her? Your exclusive conversation with Arizona's governor-elect, Kelly Lake.

I'm making a guest appearance on Steve Bannon's war room to just talk about whether or not it actually ends with Granite State. I can't, by the way, deep love and respect for our listeners in the Grand Canyon State. What is Arizona? I don't know. Look, in Arizona. Nice place. Dry heat.

but like I really wasn't paying attention to the fact that this lady closed her campaign by sharing stage with Steve Bannon coffee is for closers man and they were drinking Sanka that night that is unreal that is you know I kind of respect people who just know themselves

so what were you going to say about this episode though you don't want more of my takes okay what I wanted to say was you're the one with the hard out today I'm just trying to keep the train moving we're going to be posting this on Thursday and there are two very important things about Thursday day one, it is Chris Ryan's birthday. And I want to prematurely wish you, wish you, comma,

maturely a very happy birthday. I hope we're having a very nice day, not doing our podcast. Thank you. Also, because Chris is not doing the podcast, and this hasn't happened yet, so I'm a little nervous, like who knows what could fall through, but I have my dream guest later on this podcast. And this is all speculative. I don't want to jinx it, but I'm pretty confident that we will throw to an interview that I will get to do tomorrow with the creator of the best show on television, my personal hero, Joe Brum, creator of Bluey. Is Chris checking his watch right now? Yes.

What does it say about our relationship and also the state of this podcast that because of my birthday induced absence from tomorrow's pod, you were seizing on that opportunity to make it at the Andy Greenwald show? The Andy Greenwald podcast? The opportunity presented itself. Did I think it was carmically appropriate that they were like,

yes, your dream can come true on November 17th. I was like, okay, sometimes the universe gives you a sign. So all I can do is be receptive to it when those moments happen. But man, I'm excited. And look, I haven't done the interview yet,

but I promise Chris, my goal of this interview, because I don't think I'm getting a ton of time. He's a very busy guy. He writes... It's good they were filling out. The first half of such value of content. He writes 51...

episodes of this show a year. I just want people to know, I'm not going to be like, what is the chronology of like, why is Bluey's school friend Jack's dad not pick? Why does he not know where the school is from the episode? Is it escape? Like, why does he not know the way to school and he's only been there a few times? So we're not going to go deep, deep continuity or canon. I kind of want to ask him about what it's like making a show for children that is also the greatest show for all people. So maybe people with open minds who aren't celebrating birthdays tomorrow might find something to enjoy in this episode. I'm sure they will.

Should we talk about Daughter of Ferricks, the penultimate episode of Andor? Do you think Joe Brum wants justice for Todd? Do we ask? Does he think Arizona's no BS when they see it? Should I steer in that direction? Do you think Joe Brum is like, Anton Krieger is a fair trade for the freedom of everyone?

I think that Joe Brum would have an opinion about that. This was essentially like the first part of an alley-oop, Andy. This was the toss up in the air and we're going to probably get the flush dunk next week with the finale. I guess awkwardly, but also kind of fun that that is airing on Thanksgiving Eve. So I suppose people can check that out once they've said their hellos to their family and then escape to whatever rec rooms that they can hide in. I thought this episode was excellent. Even in an episode where you feel like it's like a serve before a volley, like this still had six or seven incredible moments, which I jotted down. But what did you think of the episode?

I loved it. I, you know, I'm a sucker for episodes that can lay back and still flex like this. To your point, like this was a table setting episode. And I don't think anyone would pretend otherwise. But it's a testament to the world that Tony and his collaborators have made here that I'm just grateful to spend time in it. and I am completely invested in every single storyline that they're showing me. I want to say broadly, before we get into specifics, because I do think it's worth noting that, like, almost casually, almost just he almost tossed away a scene with a droid that almost made me weep. Like, I mean, that's unreal.

And now, is that because that death scene, I guess, or, you know, immediately posthumous scene for Marva is seen through the eyes of the droid. Like, is it, was it the POV that you were reacting to or just like this dude being like, I don't want to be alone, I want Marva? I mean, I just thought the POV was beautiful, but I also just think that it's just the product of a superior writing mind or minds, you know, because I think as we learned from our last talk with Tony, like he's very generous with sharing credit, like who came up with which idea or whatever.

He's not precious about that. But just broadly, when we see robots or droids or whatever universe we're in and what nomenclature we use, the tell that they are becoming sentient or they're becoming human generally trends towards negative. It's generally matrixy, right? It's generally I-Robot. It's like something bad is going to happen if they become more like us. And sometimes it's as simple for good writing to just be like, well, what if the opposite? it? What if they become human by not wanting to be alone and missing their mom? What if, you know, if you have a pet and the pet looks at you when you're about to leave or jumps in your suitcase?

What if the pet could talk in a quivering, stuttering voice? That would fuck you up, you know? And that's just what happened here. It was so brief. And it's also just, again, it's this like next level intelligence for, for storytelling where we love this character of Marva Andor, who's, you know, that we love the character. But how much screenings? time did she get? Not a ton. It's not her show. How do you make it count more? You make it count more A, by casting Fiona Shaw. So you're invested and she's amazing with the time she has. But you make it count more by playing her importance off the faces and voices of the people that we do spend more time with. And that's not complicated. If I brought this up with Tony, if he came back in this podcast,

you'd be like, fucking obviously. But I think it's worth pointing out. It's worth pointing out when it's done so well. let's point out a couple of other things that we loved about this episode. Then I'll go broad because I have a broad. Well, why don't you go broad first and then I can go specific? I just wanted to say that because I watched this episode last night late, I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything and I wanted to jog my memory. So I hopped on to a website that recaps the show, which is not something that I've usually done.

And that's at Carrie Lake on Twitter, right? It was red state. And let me tell you, it's very pro-empirate. he's surprising. This serial kids got a lot going for him. Who is cucking DeGramuro and why? And it was really shocking to read this, first of all, because I didn't recognize half of the names when they were written out. Right.

You know what I mean? And like, in this piece, they kept referring to Stel and Scarsgaard's character as, hold on, let me get this right. It's rail, yeah. rail. I was like, who's rail? I thought it was L. Yeah. And there's like Claya and Landor. There's just like all these names that I've never heard. I made that last one up.

But like, it reminded me of, and you probably know people like this too, like friends who themselves are first generation American and their parents speak two languages, but they didn't learn the language. They can just understand it at home. This is a very elaborate way of describing how you don't pay attention to people's names. on TV shows.

This is flattering to me. No, I mean it seriously, though. I just thought it was pretty interesting that I, you remember when we had Evan on and we were like fucking Grito? You know, like we knew instantly who he was talking about. So I have, look, people who listen to this podcast will call BS on this, but I have attempted to pass as someone who knows something about Star Wars for a while. And then you realize that like, I just barely, I don't know the language at all.

I don't know the written language. I couldn't write it. I couldn't conjugate in this language. And I still love the show. Five years ago, and it was the first man-alian gunfight you and I witnessed, and we were like, that made an impression. I have Tennessee to remember that guy's name. That's fair.

But I just meant, like, it was just a, it was just a, maybe this is just a me thing. But like, I just thought it was kind of bracing that there is this, you know, someone, in this thing on Vulture, they were like, oh, we, you know, quad jumpers were introduced in the Force Awakens. I was like, that's great. That's great for JJ Abrams and the Kenner toy company, if they still exist, you know. and I appreciate the continuity that is happening that they themselves appreciate and notice but it is so inessential to loving the show

which is also why Andor is going to be on ABC and Hulu as we discussed it's going to be on next week right? Like yeah you don't need to know there's no barrier for entry that's so great okay let's go specific I'll just point out a couple of scenes where Tony goes off the top rope

and that is the momothma Vell scene where she explains to her the level of trouble she's in. And when we last had Tony Gilroy on the podcast, no big deal, he mentioned that Genevieve O'Reilly, I believe he described her as a Stradivarius. And I would say that she was quite in tune in that scene. Like on the edge of crying,

but also incredibly in control and incredibly detailed as she goes through this to borrow a lecariaism gold seam that she's set up, this money laundering operation, that she kind of just was like, I'm just like liquidating my family's trust, but it's such a huge trust that no one notices when 100,000 credits vanish, and then dispersing it down the line eventually to Luthen. And now I'm in trouble because the empire is looking into these kinds of things. And she's just got these watery eyes.

And then on top of that, there is this overstory of what Mon Mothma is willing to do to secure herself and her safety, but also the continuing economic liquidity of this revolution. And that's giving away her daughter. That is something that she is kind of contemplating. And I just thought that was a remarkable scene. I just thought that was fucking amazing.

And Vell being kind of like judgmental about it, but also trying to be kind of supportive about it. I just thought that was a beautiful, beautiful piece of work. Again, also just reducing it to just simple decisions of zagging instead of zinging, you know, when you're writing, that the daughter, Leda, I guess is her name. So basically, Tony just made all the names sound like Leia, which respect. It's Clea Laida. Yeah, Val. Yeah, right, right. Making her rebellion be a conservative rebellion, right? Becoming the Alex P. Keaton to listeners of a certain age, right? That's such an interesting

choice. But to your point, I was thinking about really watching Genevieve O'Reilly again because she's so magnetic, but also thinking about what Tony said about her and realizing what a gift he was given when he had her to work with because she's basically in a pocket show. You know, she had one scene in the Senate. She is sitting the entire show or walking through Luthon's story. This could change. But she essentially has been in the same outfit, same sort of state of, you know, makeup and everything. And she's just like, over the course of this season, the only way we know that she is in trouble is because, of her performance. And her face and the quiver and her voice,

or the tendons in her neck. And, like, we've been praising Stellin Scarsgaard for his incredible transformations of the two different versions of the character that he plays, maybe even three versions, honestly, after what we saw with Lonnie last week.

She's never been given that chance because she's being observed at every moment she's existed on the show. She has quite literally never let her hair down. And yet we understand the levels to her performance. and we are keenly, keenly, like, empathetic towards them. I mean, she's really screwed.

And this idea that's baked into the show over the course of its, you know, over its breath and its depth and its intensity and its integrity is that you cannot, there is no bloodless sacrifice. You know, you can't be on the sidelines. And it's not, you know, I was joking. This is maybe a little facile, but I want to say it anyway. Like I was joking about like tweeting in support of a revolution. Like that's not what these people are doing for their real slash fictional revolution.

You know what I mean? They're either in it or they're not in it. And if you are in it, it's pretty brutal and it's pretty unforgiving. And again, the mastery of introducing us to all of these people at certain points, different points in their journey, and bringing us to the precipice of a finale where we are invested in all of their relative sacrifices, knowing there are still more to come. And in the case of Cassian, there's the biggest one yet to come.

Yeah, and these people are all being stripped, not of their humanity necessarily, but their sentimentality. Right. Like, she's contemplating, marrying off her daughter so that a gangster will make her whole financially and avoid the scrutiny of the empire.

Yeah, so she can keep her position. And yeah. Right. And then you get to the, to the Luton Saw Guerrera's scene, which is pure Tony Gilroy like power play

high flying dialogue and had one of my favorite Dick one of my favorite exchanges of this season which is when Saw is like for the greater good and Luton says call it what you will

and Saw says let's call it war I just was like that's fucking tight he called it a Star War someone never said I do think they should say Star Wars at some point in the show because I feel like they never have said it well then and then you know I just thought

like it's essentially just no matter what kind of father figure you might be or a literal mother you might be or the son of a mother that you might be for the most part you know obviously Cassian is going to have to make a decision about what he's doing now that he's found out that his mother's passed away but this is an experience that strips away sentimentality and that you have to make these really hard decisions and really hard sacrifices over the course of the season over the course of the of the uprising of the rep resistance a couple of the other things that I loved um that guy sergeant mosque being demoted to a fucking smelting station which is just such a great answer to a question I didn't know I had yes which is what happens to this guy who was like

third in command at a military disaster yes and it's like he has to go work in a smelting station I mean he does still have face time which is nice uh I I would have a question a broader question. Have we been, have we seen FaceTime before in the Star Wars universe? I feel like it's often just been verbal phone calls. Or a hologram thing? Yeah, holograms. It's like, help me Obi-1 canobi. But twice in this episode, we saw, we saw Zoom, which was, which was nice with the Zoom Corporation, finally getting a good look these days. That, that scene was awesome and hilarious and that also the terrible whisper down the lane of like, everyone found out about Marva's death before Cassian did.

I also love the, there's a tendency in penultimate episodes to get caught up in the raging currents of the story that preceded it just to get you to the finale. And because you're so caught up in it, audiences might forgive or not even notice missed opportunities along the way. And one thing I did want to call out is that when Cassian and his escapey buddy run for the quad jumper and get caught by the two. locals. And that homie is in is in Roe 1, I think.

Is he? Yeah. Oh, see, I don't, okay, that's great. See, I didn't know that. But still loved it. There was an opportunity there to use their escape story to say something in, to once again articulate one of the core messages of both the show and what appears to be Tony's project in the Star Wars universe, which is saying there are consequences.

and ripple effects to everything, even down to the lowest level. And those guys do what they do because they live there, and their fishing is ruined because there's a gigantic fucking man's prison in the middle of their ocean. Yeah.

Right? Like, yeah. And again, I always beat up on this, but I'm going to keep beating up on it. But it's one of the most egregious things about Rise of Skywalker, which is by the end of that movie, you could just feel like a roulette wheel spinning

of like, well, what's a CGI background we haven't done yet? Big waves? Cool, big waves. And big waves look cool. But they look cool like a screensaver. It looks cool. Because there's no consideration of who lives there. What's inside of those waves?

What market conditions are affected by the waves? You know, like obviously there's no room for that in a movie, but I don't feel like there was any thought or imagination given to it. And there's space for it and imagination for it here. That's a really good point because for as much as I'm into the market conditions of waves and the environmental terrorism. Yeah. I thought it was pretty cool when the lightsabers came out of

Stelling Scars Guard ship. Let's talk about that. And carved up some tie fighters. And that was a really good example of a quiet loud, quiet loud, playing a little bit of Nirvana here. And like, you know, you can keep the verse pretty weird if you bring it in the chorus. And that was the chorus. And it was also like, oh, that's where all the money went.

You know, like when he's not only with the making of Andor and being like, you guys didn't skimp out on the aerial combat, that this and the eye both give me Millennium Falcon outrunning Star Destroyer vibes. And I will also say that's where the money went in terms of Luthin has been acquiring all this equipment and raising all this money. And you're like, where's this going?

And what's it doing? How did he spend the Aldani money? And apparently he did it tricking out his Fondor. Because he could beat fucking tractor beam. The destruction of the tractor beam, I mean, like, there are certain moments that I wish that I could have been, let me, let me say this two ways. Like, there are certain moments when watching the show where you're like, boy, it would have been amazing to be fly on the wall of the writer's room, like when they were like electrified floors, you know, or how do you beat a tractor beam? You know what I mean? And it's so elegant and simple, but this felt, again, I'm not the most versed in contemporary sci-fi, but I didn't, I don't feel like I've seen something like this before.

and the way that the sort of, you know, satellite arm of the tractor beam thing kept exploding in slow, slow motion in space was both beautiful and also fucking rad, right? And I'd say I wish I was in the right, a fly on the wall of the writer's room for it, but I think that Tony described his writer's room

is just like verbal combat. Yeah, I think it was just like really, the candid interrogation of ideas is welcomed, it sounded like. Yeah, but I was also like, this writer's room is me and my brother who have been hurling insults and wrestling with each other for 50 plus years

and either you can hang with us in the scrum on the carpet or not which is, you know, not, I wouldn't say that that's how contemporary writers rooms get down but I love hearing about it and I love the results. Anything else you wanted to hit on

from this episode? I almost hesitate to make predictions about the next thing. I mean, one of the pleasures of this show is that no matter what I could possibly guess what happened next he does a better job.

Yeah, and also, this is my greatest, greatest pleasure, and I don't want people to take this the wrong way. I don't care. I haven't spent a single second wondering what's going to happen in the next episode, because in a couple days, we're going to get to watch it, and I'm going to enjoy the hell out of it, and I'm thrilled. Like, that moment, it's a very Star Wars moment,

and we saw it at the end of this episode, when everything is lined up and they flip the switch and the stars go blur, and then they're gone. And you feel a sense of impossibility, like how could you ever chase anyone in a galaxy, where you can just hop in light speed. There's also a lot of trust involved in letting your computer do some math

and you flip a switch and then the stars bend. But it must feel pretty relaxing. And that's kind of how I feel. He's got the hyperspace controls, man. Let's go. You have the hyperspace controls because it's time for you to talk

to the guy who made Bluey. I'm going to go off. I'm going to enjoy my birthday. Andy, it was lovely to talk to you today. Great talking to you. Happy birthday. Chris, do you want to do the over-under and how long might let me just say a few things

before we get into this interview monologue is going to be? I would never, I would want to ruin the surprise for myself. You're going to listen? That's my birthday present from you. You're produced by Kaya McMullen.

As always, thank you for listening. We'll talk to you soon. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul predicts. Follow all the playoff dishes, swishes, wishes,

and misses. Predict the spread, the total points, and even the game winner. Sign up for Fandual predict it from the couch. Offered by Fandual Prediction Markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant. 18 plus. Trading derivatives involve significant

risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tools. Okay, we're back. It's just me. Happy birthday, Chris. My present for you is an interview for me. As promised, as hyped, I had the absolute honor and pleasure of talking to the creator of what I

honestly, Not a bit, think is the best show on television, Bluey. Joe Brum. So Joe Brum is an Australian animator who created Bluey, which you can see two and a half, basically three seasons, but only half of the third season is up now on the Disney Plus television service.

Joe was in New York jet-lagged to be there for the opening night of Bluey's Big Play, which is a live Bluey experience based on an original story idea by Joe. I've seen footage of it. It looks pretty cool. It's puppetry and magic and all the characters that I know people in my family love. The show opens in New York City tomorrow.

That is November 18th. And then we'll be touring throughout America well into 2023. But look, you guys have heard me talk about this. You've heard me monologue about this. Joe is very kind to admit that he heard me monologue about this, which made my day. But Bluey is magical. Bluey does things in its seven-minute episodes that other TV shows don't even try to do in what it has to say about connection, family, emotion, play. It's funnier than anything

else on television, and it makes me cry more consistently than anything else on television. And I promise that could be you, whether you are a Mommington or a Dattington, or even if you're not. So it was great to talk to Joe. As I alluded to with Chris earlier, I didn't get too deep in the weeds with specific episodes. I think that it was a great conversation, but also a broader one about the impetus for the show, its relationship to other kids media, how Joe manages to write every episode of the show. I think there are 143 currently viewable in America with maybe 11, 15 more coming, and that's not even talking about a potential season four.

It's something very special to have this show in my life. And I would imagine if you are a parent who listen to the show, you are probably nodding as well. I just think he's one of the great geniuses of our time, frankly. I can't believe he came on the podcast. So this is my birthday present to Chris Ryan, my interview with Bluey creator, Joe Brum. So I cannot say to you listeners how thrilled I am to be joined by someone I consider

to be a true genius of the world, the creator of Bluey, Joe Brum, Bluey, in my mind, the best television series in the world, animated or not. It is also now a live show, Bluey's Big Play, that will be touring the country, the first performance in the States is tomorrow night in New York City. This is a huge honor for me, Joe. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you.

That's great to be here. I have to tell you, I've been doing this podcast for longer than I've been a dad. I now have two daughters, which I think you do as well, as do the family on Bluey. As you can probably expect, my children have never once shown the slightest interest in what I do,

nor have they ever certainly been impressed until today. This is a big day for them, and I hope you don't mind. They, unbeknownst to me, wrote a letter. I'm showing so I'm going to read this to you if you don't mind. This is red construction paper.

Slight calligraphy on the letters which is new. I think she was showing off. So this is the letter. Dear Joe Brum, we really really, really, really like Bluey so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so much. It is so funny and it really reminds me of me and my

sister. Sadly, my parents are not as fun, nor is willing to play as the parents on Bluey. Some of our favorite episodes are Unicourse, Chess, Whale Watching, Hammer Barn, and pretty much all the others. And then I won't say their names because, like, I believe you, I respect their privacy too much to share it on a public podcast. But they love your show so much. And I think that it's, as they said, they see themselves in it, you know, and they see the joy in the family.

And their favorite thing is to watch it all together. And I feel like this must be a common refrain that you hear when you're out in the world talking to people who watch the show. Yeah, it is. Well, thanks for that. It is. And it was definitely what I set out to do to make a show that the parents could sit down with the kids to watch together. Because I really thought that that is, you know, it's a bit like when your mum or your dad, you know, take a little listen to the music you're listening to, you know, and you give it a nod. And I give it a nod.

It's a bit like that to share the cartoons you're watching with your parents. I thought would be a great experience. And yeah, I do hear that. It feels like sometimes they're hearing from adults who love Louis so much that it drowns out the kids. Yeah, it was definitely, it's definitely great knowing that that's happening across living rooms and that all families every now and get up and dance to the credits. I really love that. What do you think, and this is not to slag off on other children's shows, although feel free,

but what was the problem of children's TV that Bluey corrects in the sense of it being for all-a-e? in all audiences, because it just seems like that is not the intent of a lot of the programming that my children watch when they are not watching your show. Yeah, that's a really good question. I do think sometimes a lot of kids' shows can start with like an idea, you know, or this shows about this, but it's not until you start writing the scripts that it then tends to get very samey and very routiney and formulaic. And I didn't see that kids' TV needed to go to. down that route. I thought you could have a lot of fun with it and you could just, you know, jump all about the place in terms of your episode structure and content and all that sort of

things. In terms of where, I guess a lot of them aren't aiming to bring the family in. So you can't, you know, something like Port Patrol isn't trying to appeal to the parents. So you can't sort of hold, hold them to that. If so, it would be mostly be about civic economics, right? Like, what is the budget of this? down that they've entrusted to a 14-year-old boy and his talking dogs. I mean, the adult version of that is far too problematic to really engage with. It is. And, you know, not to mention the talking animals, but, you know, I think,

Bluey, I just, you know, I didn't want to do the thing where you have too many jokes just for the adults at the expense of the kids. I did, you know, I wanted to find that spot where the kids and the parents, senses of human meat. And that is sort of in these weird games and these role-playing games, which if you get, you know, if you hit the right note, it's the parents and the kids can laugh at it slightly differently, but still at the same sort of thing happening. And that was what Louis quickly turned into. And it becomes more of the shared laughter rather than a parent sniggering and the kid going, what was that about, even though we do do a little bit of that.

But I think it also speaks to something that is unique, at least in my experience of watching way too many kids shows over the last few years, which is that you're also just not precious about it. So that the fiction that Bluey and Bingo create in their games is pitched exactly as it exists in my house and probably the houses all over the world, which is it is completely immersive. It is completely true to them, but it's also a game. And both can be true. It's not the sense from a lot of children's entertainment that if you go to Narnia, the Narnia must be real and the stakes there are everything, if that makes sense.

You know, there's a moment. In that, it reminds me more of like improv comedy, like the spirit of yes and and you're building something together and you're creating this jenga tower of story. The moment that I kind of, it clicked for me with Bluey, well, it clicked for me from the beginning, but there's an early episode where Bandit forgets everything on this way to the pool and the girls have nothing. And I related to that in unfortunate ways. But particularly there's a moment when Bluey says, dad, watch me swim across the pool.

And he said, do you think I can swim across the pool? And he says, of course you can. And she says, no, no, say I can't. Which is everything to me about parenting, right? There's the agreed upon fiction, and that's the spirit of play that's in your show. Yeah, I love those little moments. And there's another one in hotel where bandits lying down. And, you know, I think he's trying to get bingo into the game a bit.

And that's related to the pillow. And he says, you know, oh, this pillow is not very comfy. And blue, he goes, yes, it is. And he's like, oh, okay. Yes, it is. That just seemed to happen to me constantly. The kids, you know, they stick and move with their game a bit, but then sometimes they just have a firm idea of what needs to be done,

and they just let you know. And, you know, you just got a role with it. It was an early decision, you know, it's very tempting to go, all right, well, how about then we have the background drop away and where, you know, we're on another planet or where, you know, we're in their imagination. But it wasn't, you know, it's not how it works. It only works like that in cartoons.

And it seemed to me there was, in a game of cafe or something that the kids play, there is still so much absurdity and so much humor and so much imagination just, you know, without having to take any flights or leaps of fancy, you know, why do it? And I think that's why it is, you know, it's quite relatable because that is what the kids and the parents who are playing with them find themselves in. The living room doesn't transform, but you're still in another world, you know, and it's still, it's a very, it's a very rich world sometimes. Did you play as a child? Like, was this a terrain that was familiar to you and easy to get back into when you had children of your own? Well, yeah. I mean, all I remember is mucking around with my brothers. I, you know, I would be hard. I've only got fleeting memories of, I guess, that zero to six-year-old age.

I seem to remember more older, you know, primary school. And, I mean, we would just play war constantly, which is a bit hard to get into kids cartoons these days. But, yeah, it just seemed to come, you know, like I'm an animator, where I guess we're a slightly imaginative lot. But it just seemed like it was all the kids wanted to do when they were young. And, you know, and so it's just, you just rolled with it. And it wasn't only until a bit later that,

I started really researching it and discovering why they're playing and what, you know, what's good for them and stuff. And then I've kind of doubled down on it. And, you know, it's everything. It's fun, but it's also tiring and it's exhausting. It's repetitive. And, you know, I always remember my little brother who didn't have kids at the time, Uncle Stripe coming around.

And he played some, he did some little trip with my daughter, you know, where he flips around and does this thing and she loved it. And then he's like, all right, off you go. I'm going to go. I said, no, mate, you'd now, mate, you'd now have. have to do that for 45 minutes. Okay. Like that's, that's what you're doing now.

It's like, oh, okay. Yeah, it's so play, it is everything. It's exhausting, but it can also just be, I don't know, it's such a great way to bond with the kids. It's been interesting to see the response from adults to the nature of play in your show because I think it seems, I don't know if it's equally split, but it may be culturally split. You know, I've read articles written in this country about how inspiring it is to,

to see parents so willing to just get down on the floor, to play the games, to meet the children where they are imaginatively. And then I was reading British press, which is basically like, this dog. Like, I can't believe Bandit is willing to do all this. He's making me look bad right now. I would never allow myself to be ragdolled down the stairs of my own house. So I feel like it's saying more about the critic that it is about your show. But what is your take on that divide in the audience, or at least in the adult audience? Yeah, you know, look, I think.

on any day, I can embody both of those approaches, that's for sure. I think at the end of the day, I mean, what are you going to do? You're going to have a cartoon about a dad and a mum not playing with their kids and always say no, like, it's a cartoon. So obviously we've got to lean into the parent who's playing with the kids. Yeah, I do try and show a bit of resistance and a bit of craftiness from them at the same time. But, yeah, look, every grown-up knows how to, they should be a good judge of how much is too much that they're playing with the kids or, you know, they've got things to do.

But, yeah, I think at the end of the day, I kind of hide behind the fact that they are dogs. And the only thing about dogs is they love to play. So dogs that can walk and talk, that's probably they're going to show. Also, I don't think any of those critiques take into account the way that you consistently and subtly show how exhausted Bandit and Chile are. I mean, whale watching is maybe the greatest example to date. that sometimes they just don't want to, that sometimes they're worn out by it and that their internal lives are paid attention to, you know, in a way that, again, the kids might recognize mommy and daddy being quote unquote tired after a party, but the adults will definitely

appreciate that inclusion. Yeah, I agree. I think if, you know, you can make your argument, but I'm, you know, there's plenty of examples where you show the resistance. But you know, what I like about bandit in Chile is that there is that resistance there, but they, they still make that effort. You know, that's still, that's the spirit of it, that it's like, look, even though, and you can take that away. Even though you are tired, you do put, you know, you do want to be there for your kids. And my kids who are nine and five absolutely understood on a molecular level in whale watching that it was the Netflix documentary narrated by Natalie Portman that guilted chili into leaping out of the ocean onto her husband's back. They understood it both as funny and they also understood the psychology of parents in a way that was both impressive and disturbing.

Yeah, you know what? It's interesting that. I read something the other day someone was getting stuck into it because it was like exploiting mum guilt, you know, and that, you know, but Chili should be allowed to lie on the couch. And I think I get what they're coming from. But with that episode, it was more something which I love doing in the show, which is the really gentle kind of tip for tat that band and chili have each other, you know. that instance, you know, abandoned had been, you know, despite being tired, he'd been turn it up, turn it up. And he was, you know, he felt like Chile was getting away with it, you know, and so it's him sort of putting the screws on chili at the end. But yeah, look, I love that episode. And having Natalie Portman do the voice, that was just one other, one more bizarre and amazing kind of little, you know, note on this journey. I also think you play off the parent stuff sometimes off of the kids, which is great.

Like in a recent episode, Pizza Girls, when the order for pizzas comes back and it's a big order, it's 10 pizzas. And the kids, I'll say, hooray. But all I'm seeing is like, that is next level, galaxy tier parenting. This is going to take them at least 20 minutes so we can actually be with adults during that time. Well, no one gets that, right? The kids get a lot of people, like, a lot of pieces. Parents get a bit more, more than break.

Yeah, man, you got to, you know, it's about outsmarty. them right? For as long as we can, which isn't that long. So you are the credited writer on, I believe, every episode of the series. I think there may be one or two co-writes, but that episode count in terms of what I think has been released is at like 143. There are more coming to finish off season three. This is a simple question.

How do you do that? And maybe the secondary question is, why do you do that? Why do it is a good question. And it comes down to look, Andy, I've been, you know, I've been an animator for most of my career, but I've always made short films. And the goal I've always had was to one day get to write and make my own short films. You know, I've enjoyed working on other productions. I've enjoyed being an animator.

I've enjoyed doing small little jobs, you know, as a director. But I've always been aiming to write and write my own. stories and animate. And I, you know, five years ago, I suddenly found myself in the position where it was all happening and I was doing it. And I loved it. And I was thought, look, I don't want to, I don't want to give away the best part of this. And if I can do it, and what, you know, we had, it took a little bit of, um, took a little bit of time to realize, I know, I can do this, you know, and still keep up with production. And so, yeah, I didn't want to give it away. I've worked all my life to get to this point

and I really loved it and there's something you know and I don't know why I've wanted to do this because it's just there's something so magical about you know you writing a script and feeding into this amazing team who then just make it beautiful and make it so much better than it ever was in your head you know with them from the music to the art and then showing it to people and then you know having people like you from across the world

kids write letters about it. It's just really worth doing. And it's really, and it's worth doing because it's, it's sort of one of the hardest things I've done because, when you're working as an animator on the show, you get to hide if,

you know, if the scripts aren't great, right? If the show is not a great one, you get to kind of hide because you're like, well, I didn't write the scripts,

you know, I'm an animator, look at this scene, it's pretty well animated, right? But the higher up you go, to the point when you are the writer, you don't get to hide any,

more. When you show that animatic or that episode to your crew or to the public, if jokes fall flat or if people don't understand the story, then it's just all eyes are on you and you're so raw and it's, and it helps you focus and it makes you take it back and figure out what's going wrong with it. And it's just so much more satisfying when you then fix it all up and, you know, when it lands. So that's why, that's why I did it. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, why I keep doing it because it's, I love it. And how do I do it? I don't know.

You don't have any time to waste. So procrastination isn't an option. You just, you know, the production starts and you just have to write them. And every episode is difficult to write. I find an extremely difficult to write, at least to start. But, you know, you just have to do it. I mean, one of the things that I just am staggered by episode after episode is that in seven minutes you can do so much in so many different ways. You can have an

episode that is, I think, a masterpiece in comic escalation and timing like bus. You can have an episode that drops a hammer, if not a hammer barn of emotion, like the one that started season three with wanting to move rooms, which rang so true and is just gut punching. And it's just emotional observational abilities and honesty. Or you can do something like sleepy time or rain, which is a beautiful short film, doing something completely different than what we expected. Is there an example that you point to as one that you can't believe you and your team pulled off

that maybe was abstract in conception and that you landed? Or maybe conversely, one that you still haven't been able to crack. Well, there's a lot that I felt like I didn't quite crack. I always piggyback just never, I feel like it should have just, like, technically, I thought it was amazing, but script my script I just, there was something I was trying to do in that,

that I just didn't quite, I just, my brain locked up on about the fifth attempt at rewriting it. So I never quite felt like I got there with what I was trying to, trying to do with piggyback. But I do look at flat back and I do think, whilst it maybe wasn't the technically, you know, technically the most difficult one that the crew did from a script point of view and then the way the music tied in with that, I am, you know,

it's probably the episode where I do just think, I have no idea where that came from. You know, I didn't set out to write an episode like that. It just sort of happened. You know, I'm really proud of that one because it just seemed like suddenly the sum of all our parts as a studio just, you know, became greater than anything like, you know, the whole, I guess.

And Sleepy Time, too, is like that. You know, I mean, there's some technical apps like Facy Talk and Handstand. And I kind of just hand them off to the crew, you know, to the director of Ritchie and just watch them, you know, watch them suffer. But the fact that they could pull them off from the technical point of view, I think was just incredible. But things like Sleepy Time and Flatpack and clips are even from a writing point of view, I'm really proud of because they're probably. me the apps where I just, there was no set path for them and they just sort of told themselves to a certain extent. And, yeah, the apps, which to me became bigger than a kid's cartoon, I guess, than a more short film format. I love that you said very pointedly, you know, that you're an

animator, you've been an animator all your life, but I know that deeply, first and foremost, you're a writer because you led with self-criticism. That was the most writerly response I've ever heard when you had the opportunity to praise yourself, but, No, no, first we have to talk about the one that got away. That's that. It wasn't just that one, Andy, but that's the one that still haunts me. I'd be remiss if we didn't just take a moment to talk about the incredible voice actors that you work with. Some I know are members of your family in real life.

Some are children of cast, you know, of the crew, of the company of the studio. Dave McCormick and Melanie Zanetti are just incredible episode to episode as Bandit and Chili. I imagine COVID may have altered this slightly, but has your cast ever done? on a table read or been in the same room to record, or is it all the magic of remote recording and stitching it together later? Yeah, it wasn't initially remote, but no, none of them, we never go in the same room, which would probably, it would be very difficult with kids, I would say.

There's a couple of cartoons. I can't remember the Dill Dairing guy. I can't remember it. I was one of my favorite cartoons, but you can see how good that is when they all record in the one room. but I actually don't think it would have worked too well for us. COVID hit and recording was made a little more difficult. Melanie Zanetti is, she's like a full,

she's a proper actor, and so she travels around the world. So you never know where you're recording Mel from. It's, you know, it's Italy one day, and then it's, you know, America the next. But, yeah, every recording is the same. And, you know, the particular challenge is with recording kids, because the kids are fairly young that we record,

you know, they're sort of at age five to seven. And, you know, that's a whole art in itself. And I think that's probably where I've learned the most over the course of the show is just how to work with kids, how to get the best out of and make sure they're enjoying it and they're comfortable. And just getting it sounding natural, but still hitting what the script is meant to do.

And yeah, I feel like myself and Ritchie, who directed season two and three, I'm quite proud of where we got with that because it's a set of skills where there's no book for and no one can teach you. You just learn stuff by doing it, and every kid is different. And yeah, I think the voices,

I do think the voices in blue are great, especially the kid's voices. And it's, the secret is just lots of hard work. I do have to ask you about that because as you're saying it, I'm realizing the degree to which I take it for granted, because you're recording actual children as the children.

They are all so effortlessly alive as these dog children that I don't pause. Nothing takes me out of it. You know, I don't consider when watching an episode how challenging it often is with child performers, you know, on camera or off camera to have that versimilitude, right, to have them be present and alive in the moment. This is probably the topic of its own podcast and we could probably talk for hours about what you've learned, but is that can you boil it down into something perhaps, you know, more simple about how do you get that out of children? What does the environment need to be?

Well, it needs to be playful. You need to make sure that these kids know that this is a bit of a game. You know, I'm going to say a line and you're going to repeat it. And then I'm going to be outraged. That's not loud enough. Well, you know, no, no, no, we need it louder. Imagine you this, you know. And yeah, but imagine your mom's just said this.

you know, like how are you going to say that? And sometimes, you know, well, what would you say in this situation? It's that and a hundred other things. It's, you know, making sure you get in and you get out. Don't go more than 20 minutes, you know. And if you need the kids to laugh, you get their parents in and get them to tickle the kids, you know. So it's, yeah, it's keeping it playful and just, you know,

making sure you know the kid, you know, and you get to meet them and you're like, hey, you know, what's going on? and you know it's a fun game for a lot of the time. They're just trying to copy you and you've just got to get to that place where you're being silly and they're being silly. You know, make sure they get some lollies and toys and stuff that doesn't hurt. But yeah, it's just a whole bunch of soft skills which you learn on the job.

You've been very generous with your time and I want to get you out onto the streets of New York. But just two more quick questions. one, I know that you've talked about in other interviews that a lot of the early inspiration, you know, is drawn on your own experiences with your children when they were the ages of, of, of, of, of, Bui and bingo, as your children have aged and your observations, and I'm sure the funny things that have occurred in your house have changed, are you tempted to age up at any point? Or do you, have you found ways to bring in your continued life into the reality of the show, even though they're sort of fixed at the ages that they are? Yeah, aging up was, I mean, look, obviously, Blue is my show, but I don't own it, you know, production companies, the BBC kind of owned it.

So they ultimately have the final decision on something as big as that. And I think the consensus with them, and I guess I do see where they're coming from, is that it's difficult to take an established preschool brand and suddenly shift its demographic. You know, there might be ways to do that. but the kind of idea is that ageing the kids up so that the show suddenly enters more of an 8 to 12 year old bracket probably isn't on the cards. Yeah, look, to be honest, Andy,

you know, my kids are, they're much older now and they have well and truly left the five and six year old mind, you know, and that's life, right? But it does, you know, it's, it's, it's like, I miss that age. That's fascinating this new age. It's definitely a lot more kind of, you know, MA-15 plus this year era of funds.

But, you know, you realize that four to six-year-old brain and that mind, if you're in that now with your kids, I think you should, you know, really it doesn't last forever. And it is a magical time, you know, for the kids, but also for your family. And yeah, I'm kind of out of that now. and I'm having to reach back and remember it. So, yeah, that's the way it's got to go.

Maybe we should have some kids. Yeah, because if there's one thing, if there's one thing busy dads are good at, it's remembering. So I feel like that's, I don't see any problems. No, it's totally fine. So just finally, you know, one of the most memorable season two episodes for me was movies, because it's both, as Louis always is, you know, incredibly wise and observant about how difficult it is to do seemingly simple things with children, especially for the first time. But it also had some pretty, I thought, clever and insightful things to say about the nature of corporate entertainments and the rhythms of them and the volume level of them and the songs, et cetera, et cetera.

You're now at a moment with the show, which has remained, to my eyes, like, aesthetically pure, absolutely brilliant, has never slacked, never taken off a seven-minute segment. But Bluey Toys are in every shop. There's some in my house. you're speaking because there's a live show, which is going to be touring the country. I think it's already been in Australia. How do you balance the intimacy that makes the show special with the sort of increasing demands of global capitalism? Yeah, well, the answer is I don't really.

When that first started off, and look, when the show first started in Australia, we didn't, it was on air for a year before I think we had an international distributor. And so merchandise didn't come along for at least, you know, almost two years, I think. But the show was huge in Australia. And so we had this massive demand and people filled it by crocheting their own bluish and making their own bluish. And it was a really fascinating kind of, you know, a couple of years, really, just seeing this desire for merchandise being kind of filled, you know, it's spurred.

all these nannas and stuff into the creative little crochet. But, you know, look, at the end of the day, kids' cartoons are funded by the merchandise, right? That's the business model for kids cartoons. There's no getting around that. So you want your show to become merchandisable and you want it to go large, obviously. So when it all kicked off, I was still making the show, right, season two. and I had every intention of being involved with as much as I could, but I found it a little difficult to just be across it all

and to make sure the way, you know, I guess I wanted stuff done to be done, you know, and just keeping solid to that bluey kind of ethos. So, look, I had to sort of make a decision whether it was, you know, and the decision was never really one to make. I had to just prioritise the show and the writing. And that's sort of how it remains this day.

I do have a little bit to do with the books, the Australian books, but I'm only very sort of superficially aware of, you know, across all the other merchandising lines, really. I just hope that, you know, what I've learnt is when you're, you cross from one medium to the other and literally from 2D into 3D for the figurines and stuff,

it can be very difficult. So crossing from a TV show where I've got music and we have control over all this into other experiences is sort of fraught with peril, I guess. So I'm just hoping that the audience know the difficulties involved with that. But all that's said and done, you know, I get a lot of messages, a lot of people. A lot of doctors talk to me sometimes.

and, you know, they just, they tell me sometimes of the impact that a kid's bluey toy or bingo toy has on them when they're in hospital or something, for instance. And, you know, like, it's easy to be cynical about the merch and stuff, but those little kids, like, they really love those bluey toys. And to them, it embodies, you know, they think that that's the character. So, you know, it's always beautiful to see that. And I think that cuts through any of the, you know, I guess the issues that might come up with massive amounts of arched ice. Yeah, but I think it also speaks to the power of your creation and the artistry that goes into it. Because as you're speaking and you mentioned a kid seeing a bingo toy, I was thinking about an observation that I had with my girls just yesterday that, you know, you could watch an episode that's not about her and watch bingo. and the animation is so considered.

You know, everything is a decision. The happiness, the anticipation, the excitement. You're playing every emotion on the secondary tertiary characters, you know, and they're fully alive. And that does somehow translate because of the power of the original creation that when the toys come home or the stuffed animals are handed to someone, some of that, I mean, I have no other word for it. Some of that magic goes with it.

Yeah, and you mentioned this on one of your podcasts, you know, that you said you could, in one of the episodes, you could watch every character and there's something, you know, there's something happening with each of those characters. And I was quite appreciative of that because that is what I try to do with my writing. And then it is what we do with what our animators do. You know, they make sure that every character feels alive

in every moment and that there's no just standing around blinking, you know, that they react. And, and yeah, it's like, look, the thing with the show is, and it didn't really, this didn't dawn on me until I sat and watch the bluey play. About this is clever, getting the promotional thing at the end. I was going to do it for you too,

but that was even better than my segue. Thanks, Andy. Well, you know, I was sitting in the audience. And when the characters, like the puppets,

wave goodbye at the end, the kids just waved back to them. Like, the kids think that that's real, you know. You know, there was an episode where Bandit says, you know,

I've got a, I can't come to pick you up or whatever. I've got to fly to Longreach, right? Which is a little small town out back. Australia, and where I was born. And my parents were sort of grey nomadding out there, and they went to the Long

Ridge Post Office, which sells all the bluey merch. And the lady there said, oh, yeah, when that episode aired, all these kids rocked up in the afternoon going, where's blue he's that? He said he was flying out. So it's like, that's what I'm saying. You forget what it's like to be three or four or five. Like the world's a different place, you know, and your bluey toy is, it's somewhat alive. to you, you know. So I think that's a special thing. And it's just, yeah, I've always wanted every

bit of Bluey merge to just, just to have some of the authenticity of the show and some of that realness because because we weren't really hard on the show to make it genuine and not cynical and not cheap and not disposable, you know. Well, something genuine is coming to many towns across America. Beginning tomorrow in New York, Bluey's Big Play, you can check, I'm sure I, you can Google it, you can find your tickets and see this live. performance production with had some original story or original elements by you. Is that correct? Original story. Yeah. But otherwise, Joe, I just, I want to thank you for coming on the show, but I just sincerely want to thank you for this show. It is such a gift in my life and the lives

of my kids and family. And I just think so many, so many other people. And I hope that people listening, there are people listening who are not parents because there's much for them to enjoy in the show as well. So really, just thank you. You welcome to Mandy. No, my pleasure. Good to meet you, night.