The Watch - Breaking Down a Rishi-Filled Episode of 'Industry'

Episode Date: September 2, 2024

Chris and Andy talk about this week's Rishi-centric episode of 'Industry.' They talk about how this episode was the show's version of 'Uncut Gems' (1:00), how the power dynamics between characters in 'Industry' are constantly changing (15:28), and why in 'Industry' the viewer doesn't have to fully understand the workings of the finance world, they just have to understand how the people in that world are reacting to it (28:10). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimphia, including important safety information. This episode is brought to you by Brooks. Running connects us to a rush of energy that flows through our world. The cheers of friends that unlock a new gear within us,

the intersection of interest that inspires a run crew, the support that gets you over the finish line. Connection is why we move forward and what inspires us to keep going. Let's run there. Learn more at brooksrunning.com. Hey, everybody. It's Chris. I'm hoping everybody had a really, really good Labor Day weekend

or is about to have a really good Labor Day. at you on Sunday night because we just felt like we wanted to get this industry recap up to everyone. And I had said, oh, maybe I'll jump on and cover some entertainment news if anything breaks over the weekend. And you know what? It didn't really, unless you were a tell your ride, unless you were at Venice, unless you were Sean Fennessee, I don't have a lot of headlines for you. I didn't get Oasis tickets. That's the big takeaway. We will be back with you on Thursday covering a bunch of new stuff because we got slow horses coming back on Wednesday, and we've got a new show on FX called The English Teacher

premiering tomorrow night that we're going to be checking out. And obviously, everybody should be doing their homework and just keep grinding out that homicide life on the street tape. You won't be sorry that you did. So without further ado, let's get into today's episode, which covers Sunday night's absolutely harrowing episode of industry. Thanks to Kaih for producing, and we'll see you on Thursday. I need supports to have to clear the room.

Stand up and walk now. Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the Rigger.com and joining me on the other line, dreaming of a white Christmas. It's Andy Greenwald. Can we just sit quietly for 10 minutes of this podcast?

Because I feel like people listening will have watched the fourth episode of the third season of industry. And I think everybody needs just like a little bit of little time in the chillout room like they used to have at the raves that we didn't go to. Guess who has two thumbs and is saying, not this guy. Andy, you know something about me? There's an amusement park in Portland, Oregon. I think it's called Oaks.

And it has a ride called the Atmosphere. And it's Atmos F-E-A-R. Oh. And it's essentially like a lever or like an arm that goes 280 degrees in the air while you hang off the bottom. and I don't take the atmosphere, but I love watching other people ride it. Oh, interesting. Look at you.

I think that that's kind of how I felt about white mischief, the fourth episode of this season, the third season of industry, which we're going to talk about now, because you were essentially watching a man suspended in the air and also dropping frequently in Rishi. For all intents and purposes, a supporting character,

kind of a comic relief character, almost a off-screen narrator of this show in lots of ways. If you watch it with subtitles, there's the Rishi subtitle band that's always going during episodes of industry. But after sort of the culmination of this Loomi storyline, at least for now, after the three episodes that end with the trip to the Not Davos Davos conference where Eric Face Plants and Harper and Petra launched their fund, I don't know how far into the future we go,

but it's a little bit into the future where Lumi, is kind of an administration. It's dead. And they've moved on to other things. And we get this entire episode, instead of what's next for Peerpoint, we get this entire episode about Rishi and explains why he has been scratching at his back for so much of this third season. Yeah. What follows is essentially, like other people have mentioned this, it's like, it's industry's uncut gems. It is a night of the living dead with Rishi as he has Bill's gumming due left right center he's running like a Ponzi scheme on horses with his co-workers he's in debt

200 grand to a uh a bookie or a gangster who he may or may not know he's going out getting high having nosebleeds on his infant child everything that could possibly happen to a human being happens to reach you over the course of about 24 hours including the fucking pound coming back hard So what did you think of this crazy roller coaster ride? Do you like watching people dangle? I do not, but I have a lot of admiration for the people who do. You know, what is Eugene Levy say about the class clown in Waiting for Guffman? Like I wasn't the class clown, but I sat next to him and I studied him.

That's me. That's me, the guy who really couldn't make it through uncut gems. And so white-knuckled his way through this episode. Let me start by saying something that I think, let's see how. how this shakes out, but this may be, this is in the very upper echelon of episodes of TV that I've seen this year, that maybe that we've seen this year. I think it was exceptional. And I think it was exceptional for two reasons. One was what we all just saw on the screen. To essentially, this has never been a chill show, but to ratchet up, you know, intangibles like anxiety, stress, intensity,

to this degree requires an effort on the part of not just the writers who are Mickey and Conrad in this case, or the actors who's Cigar Radia who's incredible, or Nathan McKay on the score. It is everyone working in concert to create something that is essentially a different show for a sustained period of time. That's outrageous, and that would be enough. The thing that I always want to come back to, and I feel like it's just part and parcel with how I'd like to talk about this show, is only the elite shows get to do this. only the elite shows are so comfortable with the status quo, so comfortable and confident in their storytelling in their A stories, and their primary stories and their main characters

and people who are at the front of the poster, that they can just clear out for an ISO play for someone who, as you said, was essentially comic relief, that that actor, that character has so much to say and show us, and also so many other colors to bring into the world that actually compliment it or, you know, darken it, that in and of itself is incredible. And as every episode of the season has been,

an argument for the continued existence of ongoing serialized dramatic television. So bravo. You're the watcher on the wall for TV, maybe. This one fucking crushed, but it also crushed me and I'm still recovering. Yeah, I mean, just, I do think to be fair to this show or to this episode is that it's not.

I've been fairly unfair so far. But it's not fair to actually characterize it as like entirely uncut gems. I mean, it gets back up there, but it certainly has its moments of reflection. It has like this quieter kind of like second half before like basically that moment in between Rishi getting his ass kicked at the strip club and like everything kind of coming down on him. Like I do feel like there are moments of of quiet in this episode where you can catch your breath. Do you think that they could have done this kind of episode with one of the quote unquote

main characters? No, which is also why I love it. I mean, it made it fascinating. It made it fascinating for a number of reasons. Like, the show is very, very hyper-focused on how many of, I mean, all the main characters are broken, and all of them are essentially trapped between worlds or trying to pass in different worlds, and that takes different form. I mean, Harper is an American.

Harper is a woman of color who is achieving on a high level, you know, some would say fraudulently because she does not actually have the degree that she's claimed to have. Yasmin, on the other hand, is moving the other direction, trying to be down in the world. I never expected you to be such a gatekeeper about higher education, man. What is Robert? What does he say she should do? Have a grubby wank? Like, that's her day to day now.

You know, we've seen Eric's version as well. So, like, Rishi's perspective is completely different than all of theirs. So I think that the shading that that brought to the storyline of what capitalism and this degree of capitalism means for each of them individually. I think was fascinating and important. I also think that it was crucial that Rishi is a piece of shit, right? Like, Rishi, on some level, sucks. We are compelled by him,

but he behaves monstrously throughout the series and to make an episode about the bill coming due in literal and other, you know, in figurative senses, made it especially compelling. You know, again, it's kind of like the feeling I get from the season episode to episode

is it does feel like Mickey and Conrad are daring each other. Like, well, can we introduce the season's big storyline and essentially end it, or at least end the perceived version of it in three episodes? Yeah. Can we remove Harper from the mix and still make her and Eric the most fascinating couple on television? Who are, like, essentially sharing wordless telephone confrontations

at this point, other than the one at the breakfast table when Leviathan Alpha first comes rearing out of the ocean, But for the most part, it's like Harper's on the phone with someone else or Harper calls but doesn't say anything to Eric. Like their confrontation whenever it actually happens is going to be incredible. And so, you know, the natural drift of TV is to make everyone more likable. I mean, that's the gift and the curse of a Mike Scher show, for example. This is the fucking reverse sure right here. Well, that's what I mean.

But it's the reverse sure, but it's also it's the, yeah, it's like the emergency break of the Shur. It's like we have spent enough time intimately with Harper and Yasmin that we forgive them their foibles. Like, you know, it was interesting to see like, you know, serial killer Harper return last episode because we were feeling for her because she was knocked down a peg. So to make Rishi the avatar of this episode when we're like, what's forgivable about anything that he's doing and how can he be a compelling protagonist? I'm not saying he can't be. He is. but I'm saying like that seems like a bet. That in itself seems like a dare to see like, can we do this?

And I think the answer to it is yes, they could. I don't find, I don't think Rishi is like a good guy or a hero or nor do I find him particularly redeemed by the end of this episode. You just think he's a fun hang. No, I just don't know that. I just don't think that's the point of industry. I agree. I agree. Just to create, like redeeming arcs for people.

Like I think that you could make the argument that in that case, Rob is the hero of the show, you know, in the traditional sense, perhaps Yasmin. But like, I think that Rishi is, to borrow the phrase from the Doobie Brothers, what happens when habits become vices, you know? And even his brief moment of respite from his addictions, his debts, his being on a, like, basically a one-way train to hell at work, that moment where he's like, oh, I think my wife truly sees me for a second here. He immediately uses that as like the sort of accelerant to go off on another run where he immediately is like, I'm going to destroy this, I'm going to build

the pavilion, I'm going to take my dog back. I'm the fucking man again because like I just needed something to propel me in that direction. So that's just such a fascinating thing to watch. watch. The reason why I love this episode, maybe even more than just the thrill ride that it was, was I fucking love how this show changes the relationship characters have to the call sheet, basically every week. The idea that Harper is now Nicole in this episode, she's the voice on the other end of the telephone, making everybody crazy. The idea that Yaz and Rob are basically like Rosencrantz and Guildenstern

this episode where they're kind of making little asides and asking questions, but for the most part, are like comic relief. Like when Rob says in the opening of this episode, I understood about a fraction of what you just said, get ready because that's what the viewers are like, man. Nobody knows what's going to happen. I don't understand what happened in this episode at all. It's also an interesting table setting too, because, you know, it's a reminder. These guys are middle management.

they're not rich. They're, you know, doing well. They have access to capital and glamorous lifestyles or whatever. But the rich people are the ones that they service. They're the ones who, you know, as Eric says, like, we're salesmen. We're just like he's basically, it's like a Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross speech, if, you know, maybe half of one. Like, we're on to the next thing. That's what we do.

They hand us a product and we sell it, you know. And so Harper is suddenly ascended out of the pit. She's one of the people whose calls they have to take. Yeah. You know, and the sense of like the hunger, it's interesting. And I feel like in some ways under explored on industry that Eric and Harper are Americans in the UK in a society that, you know, that at least like punters like us understand that like you don't talk about money that much in a public way or at least you didn't used to the way that, you know, the crass Americans do. But Rishi's behavior is real American. Yeah.

In this episode. And what does Eric say? It was like they call it soccer, not football now, man. Exactly. Like the dollar rules everything. And the type of capitalism that they peddle in is, you know, is an infectious virus that's taken over the globe. And so the putting this in framing this in like, that's not green energy. Is that what we're talking about?

It's different kind of green energy. Framing it in terms of Rishi's assent where they're like, there's the sort of casual racism of like, is he good at cricket or should he have been better at cricket. He wants to buy this place to do what with it? No, he owns all that. It's just that he wants to change it. And they're like, oh, the village would prefer you didn't. Right. Or even the more overt, like it's Raja, not Roger.

It was a way in to the show's core themes that was extremely compelling. I guess I have, you know, you know this about me that like I've been privileged not to be in a workplace for quite some time. and independent contractor or whatever. Like, do you feel like if Sean showed up for a ringer staff meeting looking like Rishi, like would he be allowed to host the big picture that day? Like, it seemed very, very loose. You know what, the Ringer is an incredibly harmonious workplace. And I think that, you know, I would never say that.

I think what Rishi's point is, is if I'm making money. who cares what I say and what I do. And that used to be the operating philosophy of this place and now everybody operates under this, like we have to sit in this room for 15 minutes and talk about how we're feeling

to check an HR box, right? Now, obviously, all the people in that room had significant and real things to share once they got over the, like, sort of awkwardness of the exercise. And it turned out that Anraj especially was like,

my mental health is crumbling because I work for you. By the way, Anraj is the hero of the show. Anraj seems like the most normal guy ever wearing his half zip and he just wants to go home. I've seen some people make comments about the absent T.HR department of PurePoint, but I do think that when you see what happens at the end, when Rishi gets his chancellor statement that he needed to make the pound go crazy, and then is able to sell his position on the pound, I believe, to all these other rich folks who want to buy sterling.

So he makes $80 million. He not only gets out from under his $300 million debt, but he makes something like $80 million. I didn't have subtitles on this screener, so I'm not exactly sure about this, nor do I know what I'm talking about. But the fact that he had the risk department, HR, security,

all breathing down his neck and what happens at the end of the episode, Eric laughs and waves everybody off. Because that guy just did his job. No, it's not even friends. He just did what he's paid to do. He made him a ton of money. He made them a ton of money.

And if you have to... I mean, even like the weird whole thing with the guy who's speaking Egyptian Arabic and Yaz is like, I don't want to translate what he just said. I wouldn't feel like that's appropriate. Like what he's doing there and who he... Because I think Adler brings him onto the floor

earlier in the season, so it's unclear what his role is there. like even that guy is like you fucking did it man like I'm buying like a yard of of sterling from you like it only thing that matters at the end of the day is whether you're in the black or the red I think that the attitude that Rishi has it stems from exactly the type of environment that you're describing and I think that what makes the show endlessly fascinating is that this is more honest right that like Rishi only exists in worlds that make sense because there's no pretense. He either has money or he doesn't. Either

it lands on black at the roulette table or it doesn't. You know, it's a very binary world of buying and selling, of winning and losing, and something about that is cleaner or pure. And I think, you know, we're sort of talking about this episode out of order because it is so, so relentless until the moments that it's not. But what I found very, very interesting and very competitive, telling about the episode is that, look, it could have ended at a variety of points. Like, like, okay, even, let me make that a broader statement. The episode could have been just Rishi's decline in fall. 36 hours in the office. We didn't need to see him in Somerset at the beginning or the end. Now, what makes the show elite is that we do. Similarly, we see him in the fields of

battle that makes sense to him, which is London. That works for him. Anything outside of it kind of doesn't. He doesn't understand the rules. He doesn't know how to cut the hedges, et cetera, et cetera. The way the show found time in its, you know, admittedly fairly long run time to then put him back, bottoming out, sobering up in the messiness of an actual life was very, very interesting and very compelling. And it allowed the show to do the thing that it didn't have room to do or it didn't have the chops to do, it didn't have room to do or it didn't have the ambition to try or it didn't

have the chops to successfully pull off, which is, you know, in many ways, the question of 20 years of prestige TV is, so what does it mean to be a man? And like literally have that. I mean, this is the season that started with I am a man and I'm a relentless. And then ends with Diana saying, do you even know what a man being a man is? It's not how you seem around other men or what you do to feel a certain way around other men. It's how you treat the people who expect your love. Yeah. Now, that is like showing up to peer point with some like wampum baskets to trade. Like this is not recognizable currency, but its entrance into the end of the episode destabilizes everything that came before. This is not a particularly stable episode.

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I think that that's cool. Well, okay, first of all, I do want to thank you for giving me this. What do you mean? Love is love. I think as someone who has had, people, many people in his life refer to my podcast, this podcast as, quote, your show, your radio show, your little project with Chris, and your hobby. I really, really related to Diana being like, do you think it's an internship?

Like, I really did appreciate Mickey and Conrad standing up for... For podcasting. Well, not the professionalization and paychecks of podcast. That was important for me and my sense of self-worth. What did you think of Rishi's holding of his infant child bleeding on it from the nose while urinating and looking at only fans? I took a long walk. That was, you know, when like, remember when like Ready Player 1 came out and I was like,

this is the end. I'm like, actually that 15 seconds in a fictional character's life represented the end. Like, let's just all lie back and let the sun incinerate us. We're done. Now, to be, like, so. I was like, he's not bleeding on this baby. Is he? Sometimes I think it will talk to them about this.

Which is a question you just never want to ask while you're watching TV is, are you bleeding on the baby? No, in my own experience as a father, one time some pad tie noodles dropped on a baby. And, you know, it's all fair. Like, you got to eat. That's about as bad as it gets. I think that when we do talk to Mickey and Conrad this year, I do want to ask about We know every time they come on the pod

We talk about this But I just kind of feel like Their actual interactions Are evident in the show this season In the sense that one of them must have said You know what he should do is like you should fucking bleed on the baby And one of them was like no And they're like a fucking let's let's

He's got to bleed up like I feel like it's a Maybe they're both like yes Maybe it's always yes and I bet no one said no But there is a This is the type of idea that can only come from a writing team The reason why I love it the reason why I love that moment and it's not just because I don't have kids

so it just amuses me yeah you're not babysitting anymore by the way it's also because it's so specific and to see that happen you're like I know exactly how desperate this guy is like I know what a fucking dark hole this dude is in and he just lives there he's just bane

he just lives in the darkness and I felt the same way about the specificity of the gambling scenes and the like you like the absolutely like actually like sadness I felt for Rishi when he goes into the strip club with no friends and is like here's I'm going to go to this table this banquet table and then like no one is here with me I just have a big brown envelope full of money and I can't buy community I can't buy friendship I can't buy love like I need to pay for all these things you know like sex and drugs to fill that void the different levels of Rishi's like desperation. I thought like the most effective example of that was when he is basically running this Ponzi scheme around horses.

And I have to say, man, as somebody who sat next to someone who was trying to live bet Cocoa Goff's US Open match last night at a bar I was in, I have to admit that like, I find horses even dumber than that to bet on. Like I have no idea why you would use your money to like to lose your money on a beast running in a circle is so crazy to me. And dudes who are like, I understand horses, and I know like this guy runs well on this kind of turf. What you just said is the most compelling argument

in favor of the cancellation of luck that I've ever heard. So careful, but go on. But when he is doing that round of like he's got his bookie outside, he's got to get together whatever cash he's supposed to get from these guys. at Pierpoint. Now the whole time you're like, okay, what he's going to do is he's got to go outside and pay off Vinnie. But what he's really has to do is pay off Eric, who is obviously like the next person in line in this pyramid scheme of like everybody's giving Rishi money and he basically uses all that money to pay off one of them on like a horse race thing. And instead like kind of

longingly looks at the money he gave to Eric and is like, we could also pretend like I never gave to you and double down and Eric's like, okay man like whatever like let's just pretend like it never happened. That's such a specific move that people in trouble pull and I was like oh God like you're right

somebody in that writer's room somebody has had this experience of like when you're underneath the mountain of pressure and debt when you're spiraling like that like that's the kind of shit you do and the human brain is so fucking dumb and so

so messed up in the sense that he only believes in trading. Like, he only believes in hard currency as value. What's incredible about it, and you asked me what I thought about the relationship, like, she loves him. Against all odds. But, like, I believe that. And I think that line was very important, you know, that she's having an affair with the contractor.

She's bored and unhappy. She's furious at him. She feels cheated and betrayed and misled. And not like it's an equal partnership in the marriage. But she loves him. He is loved. But none of that, when it enters his brain, it just gets shunted off into the wrong pipe. Right.

And it has no appreciable value to him because it's just something you sit with. The other subtle and I think important note about the episode is that no lessons are learned. like Seinfeld a little bit. You know, there's no hugging and there's no lesson learning. Like, there is no quiet moment because, as you said, you know, a moment ago when we were talking about it, like he uses the staving off of the executioner's blade to double down again or start up again to play Wutang, which is something that, who among us hasn't signaled to the world that they're back?

Was that, is that, that's, that's jizzer, right? No, no, that was. Sorry, that's inspected deck, right? No, that was shame on a, that's classic Wu-Tang. That's ODB's track. That was exhilarating. I wanted to ask you a little bit about the, they push the debt limit of the audience's level of like understanding on this one.

In the same way that Rishi is overexposed on the Sterling, like the showrunners and the writers like they basically like, ramp up how much you think you can get away with with people who may not understand what's going on. You've talked about recently, I think, I can't remember what you were referring to, but you talked about, like, I don't know, I don't have to understand what's going on. I just have to understand how other people are reacting to what's going on. And that was classically depicted in this episode, I thought. So, you know, like I mentioned before, Rob, early on in the episode is like, I don't understand what you're talking about when it comes to these horses. I don't understand.

what Rishi's talking about when it comes to why he's bought into Sterling so long. And then it seems like there's this big Chancellor X-checker announcement that's going to determine like the interest rates and determine like the strength of the pound. But other people are betting against the pound.

They don't like that reaction. So Rishi's starting to lose more and more and more money and exposure. But beyond like trying to like break down what happens in this episode, how did you feel about being lost somewhat in the the fog of this situation. So I do feel like that for people who are watching in the UK, their understanding of the

episode might be slightly shaded by the fact that I think we were seeing the industry universe's version of some of the, like, the Tory policies that were implemented by Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak over the last few years that the global markets were not super into. I say this in the most, the most layman terms possible. Mostly we should just talk about the head of letters. I'm just saying, so that may have affected some people's understanding of it. or that aspect of it may have been lost, you know, the idea that, like,

that when there's that whole part in the beginning about, like, Rishi, you sound like a Tory, like, why... Yeah. Well, then he's like these fucking Tories and he's like, oh, how the worm is turned. Yeah. That he's super into the Bolsheviks or whatever the line is.

Yeah. Harry Lawy's so good in this episode. But, yeah, I think that I really like in... I'm especially realizing it now. Like, I really like relaxing into something. I don't like... And you know that I often begin... shows or movies, like, in a, and I wish I didn't, but like, kind of in a defensive crouch

being like, like, I don't think I'm going to like this. Like, I'm always... Why don't I like this episode? Too often, and you guys have heard me do this over the years, like, I react so strongly at the beginning because that's just how I enter into stuff and I wish I didn't. But especially wish I didn't, because the greatest feeling is when you trust the bus driver and you're along for the ride. And so this episode, because it was so keyed up or key bumped up, like, I didn't,

didn't have any mental space to even try to pay attention to what the details of the financial stuff was. I mean, the Robert line was so well placed in this episode where he's like, I don't know what you're talking about. Great, same. But yeah, the broad strokes were clear, you know, that they expanded his debt limit professionally for the loomy thing because, you know, again, that's also just sort of continuing to beat the same thematic drum that as long as it's making money for the firm, it's okay. Yeah. So they did that. for one time and he took advantage of it and that he was now stealing from Anraj's book and everything. And then, of course, the very well-designed shot of his iPhone screen, which just shows how much money he doesn't have.

Yeah. Which is, that should just be his wallpaper. That's a fun one. So, yeah, it was easier in some ways because the episode never fucking led up to just be like, okay, I see that it's not going well for him. And maybe I don't need any more than that. One of the things that I was able to glean with my very basic. understanding of finance was just the extent to which, like, no one actually has any convictions. They just have bets.

You know, so everything is like hedging. And sometimes I actually feel this way when I do think about sports betting. I mean, even Bill and Sal were just talking about like the overunders for the AFC and the NFC. And often they'll be like, well, you can do this and then you can hedge here. Like, and I'm like, but you either think the Texans are good or you don't. And I understand when it's with money, like you're kind of, you want to shore up the house a little bit. But it's so funny to watch like at the end of this episode after he's like, what does he say rural Britannia when the pound comes in really hard? He immediately starts fucking selling it.

You know what I mean? He's like, he's like getting off of this, this toxic position that he's had because momentarily he's in the right, you know? So it's just, it's a hilarious aspect of financial dealings where it's also intentionally set up framed in the episode in a way that he makes what appears to be a good chunk of his debt back at the casino, and his first move is to spend it all again. Like, that's just what you do with it. You know, it is why one of the most searing back and forth in the episode is when Anurh says, you're not even a good trader, you're just lucky. Yeah. And he says, tell me what's the difference. No, it's crazy. You know, I think sometimes we tell on ourselves, like in terms of how and when we record the show,

because certain things are still in our ether or in our minds. But in, in terms of humanity and what we recognize in real life as core values being irrelevant in certain workplaces. I was thinking about how, you know, last week we talked about homicide and the great episode, Three Men and Adina. And I don't mind calling back to it a few days later because people who skip that part, what's wrong with you? Get Peacock, watch Homicide Life on the street. I love you. Like, Get Peackech. I've been up here being like, there's honestly, sorry, Kaya, I don't see the reason for having Peacock, but now I'm all in. Kai and I have been keeping that place afloat with Olivia Benson and Love Island.

Peacock Island. And below deck. But there's a moment in an episode Three Men and Adina when this actor, Moses Gunn delivers one of the most incredible emotional breakdowns I've ever seen in the most like raw humanity about a broken person expressing love. And Andre Brower's character, Frank Pemberton, just has his head in his hands because it's not serving him. in that room, someone's humanity is irrelevant because he's in that room to get a confession.

And similarly, Eric's reaction throughout on the trading floor is mirrored by Diana at the end of the episode when Rishi does have a human moment, when he does break down. And she says, your shame is of no use to me. Yeah. You know, like that in some ways, your shame is not useful to me right now, she says. And in a way, in that moment, that's the most revealing thing as to why she is a suitable partner for him in the transactional sense, right? She does not see the mask fall and embrace the scared, broken, irritated back boy within.

She's just like, this is not relevant to our business at hand. I wanted to end this conversation about the episode by talking about the season so far. Oh, wait, can I do two quick things about this episode? Of course. Super small, just throw away things. One is the part of Nicholas, who is quite memorable throughout, is played by Al Roberts. who's a great British comedic actor who people might recognize

from staff Letts Flats, which I still think like that's in my, if you just want to laugh, like watch the first episode of that and Garth Moranke's Dark Place and you're good. But that was great casting. That was a great part.

And also, in the spirit of Jesse Bloom being incarcerated, we got a Daria reference. That's right. And there are, like, there are no long-lasting grudges when you have that much money,

I guess, right? Yeah. What does Harper say? I've paid her enough money. I pay her to be nice to me now. Yeah. Yeah. I was just wanted to ask you about your feelings about this is a very expertly constructed season so far.

We had a three-episode arc so far of Loomy and Henry. There's allusions to he's going to be brought in front of a select committee of some sort and that someone from Peerpoint will probably have to go accompanying him to that to testify to Parliament about Green Energy and Loomies. Perhaps it's snake oil in that situation. but I thought this was a great mid-season, not reset, but like it's certainly now, I'm like, I have literally no idea what the next episode is about. Are we restarting the Henry plot? Was Kit Harrington only on three episodes this season? Like, where does this go from here?

Where are your feelings about where the season's at? I'll just keep saying what I've been saying from the beginning of our, the beginning of the season and beginning of this episode, like, they can do anything right now. They're feeling it. it's a big difference between asking this question in a season three versus a season one. In a season one, you could be like, did they shoot their shot? You know, did they, did they mishandle the ingredients and like use them all up before the meal was done? Like, you could ask a bunch of questions. When you're in a third season and especially a third season like this, you're like, this is awesome.

I thought I bought a ticket for one ride and it's actually a completely different one. It's the atmosphere. It literally is. And I think that there were a couple things. like, you know, we didn't see Petra this episode either. We don't actually know what's going on with Harper. The lot, when Reishi says you're in bed with the founder and Yasmin's reaction, when in fact he did just mean it figuratively, that's enough to suggest that Henry is still in play and that

relationship is still going. And the next time we see him, it'll be in a different context. So, no, I, you know, there's no better feeling that, like, they were just like, yeah, okay, let's get that stuff off the board. Let's go all out. And I think, I think either Mickey or Conrad posted. on their Instagram that like the script notes for this episode was, I mean, they were like, we're doing uncut gems here.

So everybody buckle up. So they found space to do that. They pulled it off. And so what can't they do now? I don't know. But the season plot wise, this is the best of anything, right? Like when I don't, we can't get on the podcast right now and be like, here are the three plot questions that I need to see answered by the end of season three.

That's why I'm so happy. Me too. What I can say is this is a show. about desperate people in a world that has made them desperate and that trades on that desperation and anything is possible. We'll be back on Thursday in some capacity. We'll be talking about slow horses coming back. There's a bunch of other stuff on the horizon all coming back.

There's some new FX stuff coming. So we'll be chatting with you guys on Thursday. I hope everybody had a great Labor Day weekend. And I'm going away. We're going to be remote. Yeah. So this will be interesting for us. This will be good.

How did this first one go for you? this first sesh. This first session of a remote. This one's fine, but it's going to be an international remote, you know, due to work coming up. So I think it'll be interesting.

You've done the transatlantic pod before with varying results. So I think it'll be interesting to see if I can step up, you know. Well, we'll never know, because you guys wouldn't let me talk about succession from Paris. That's transcontinental.

That doesn't work. Kaya muted me. Kaya canceled me. My left bank takes on succession. were too real for the pod. But you were carrying a baguette. Like you were clearly on your way to something else, you know? That wasn't a baguette.

You didn't want to stop you. All right. Thanks for talking to me. I hope everybody had a great weekend. Thanks to Kyya for producing and we'll be back on Thursday. Health starts with what's on your plate because a healthy plate is more than a meal. It's a foundation. Just as food draws life from deep roots in the earth, families thrive from the support of healthy food.

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