The Watch - Breaking Down 'Succession' S2E4 | The Watch

Episode Date: September 2, 2019

Your number one boys break down S2E4 of Succession, "Safe Room." They talk about Shiv and Kendall's tender moment (2:19), who won the episode (10:04), and the biggest burn of the week (18:39). Host: Chris Ryan Guest: Jason Concepcion Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the ringer.com. Happy Labor Day. It's Monday when you're listening to this. It's Labor Day. So not a ton going on, but we are giving you the audio from me and Jason Concepcion's Succession after show number one boys.

And gosh, if you watch Succession, you're going to want to listen to this. It was an incredibly funny, incredibly moving episode. So Jason and I broke it down from our favorite lines, the best burns of the week, rich people stuff.

And we also got into a lot of the more emotional aspects of today's of last night's episode. So for the rest of the week, Andy will probably be on on Thursday. We'll break it down there. But for now, let's just get into my conversation with Jason Concepcion about last night's episode of Succession.

Hello, and welcome to number one boys, the ringer's succession after show with Jason Concepcion. I am Chris Ryan. We are here to talk about Succession, Season 2, Episode 5, The Safe Room. And Jason, like, this was a pretty screwball episode, right? Like, there was a lot of, like, kind of physical comedy. There was a lot of running around. You had secret meetings, amusement park diversions.

You had a funny sort of funny funeral. And even scarily enough, you had an active shooter situation, which is then with the Greg and Tom stuff played for laughs and like the sort of caste system of panic rooms that they have. Multiple safe rooms, the lower level safe room for the middle executives, like Tom and Greg that is not secure gas, as Greg pointed out, could easily seep under the door. A child assassin might...

coming through the window above the door. Greg had a lot of awareness of like the levels of security they were dealing with. But then the episode ends with possibly the most heartbreaking, the most devastating, the most human moment of the season so far in a moment that sort of echoed Logan and Kendall's heartbreaking embrace at the end of the first season. Logan, to the extent that he is capable, opens up to Shiv, and it leads to this really, really like heart-rendering scene. Yeah, it's such a change-up when this show gives you sincere,

motion. Yeah, you almost don't know what to do with it. You do not know what to do with it. And even the characters themselves don't know what to do it. There's that incredible moment where Shiv is like, what? Okay, and then feeling her brother breaking down in her

arms is just taken her back and has no idea what to do. They don't cut to Kendall first. Like you see Shiv's reaction first and that's when you know something really intense is happening. And that's when we're going to get right into buy or sell and I'm buying

Shiv and Kendall as a as like a pair for each other because of what winds up happening when they're dancing around actually talking about something and you know the cadences of the dialogue is so important in this show

usually for comedic effect usually for the perfectly placed profanity the perfectly laid out barb but when Shiv says fucking talk to me like the way that that is like laid out seems to be the lock pick on Kendall.

Yeah, he is stonewalling, stonewalling, stonewalling, stonewong, and that finally can't escape leading to that line when he's after the embrace where he says, you know, I would just ask that you take care of me. Yeah. And it is devastating. It's devastating. Because he says, and he says, if dad didn't need me right now, I don't know what I'd be for, which is a very interesting, almost like Shakespearean way of saying.

He's a tool. Yeah, what's my purpose? But it's specifically right, like a tool. I think that when this show started, when this series started, people looked at Kendall and people looked at Jeremy Strong and were like, that's going to be the Dondraper. That's going to be the like Maverick anti-hero who eventually puts it all together to drag this company into some sort of morally acceptable position.

I think that's what people thought initially. And over the years, or over the time, you see Kendall's just like actually not that bright. He's incompetent, not quite as incompetent as Roman. He knows his shit. He knows how to pretend to be smart. Right. But when it comes to that final chess move, the final two chess moves, he's just, he's not there.

You know who he actually reminds me of? Ziggie from the Wire. He's like way more like Ziggy from the Wire than he is like Walter White. He is like, because you remember in that the sort of final scene, the spoiler for people, I haven't seen the wire, sorry. But that final scene that we get with Ziggy and the wire Caesar 2, and he's like, and now this is where I am, fuck from birth. Like he kind of has this revelation that he was like,

I was always gonna end up here and I feel like Kendall's in the same spot. It's a great point. If you think about every big meeting, big moment that Kendall has, his need to close that deal is so present on his face that it's almost whams gammy in and it's like meatiness. Yeah. The way he, you know, walks into the meeting, I forget the name of the art, with the art platform people where he's just like, hey, you know, cool, so cool to be here with you and he tries

to throw his expensive shoes out the window. Like, Jay, he just wants to impress people and close that deal so badly and he's finally come to the place where he realizes he doesn't have it in him. I think that's one of the things that really struck me about that. that's the scene with Kendall and Shiv is, it's, Kendall finally understands, like, what his father is. They've all grown up with Logan as their father figure this whole time,

but it's only now that Kendall understands the lengths that his father is willing to go to. Yeah, I think he actually believes what he says when he's like, Dad's plan is better. Yeah. Because Dad's plan is absolute. Because, like, Logan can't lose if you play the game that way. Kendall's a guy who has lost his wife and kids for the most part. He's been publicly humiliated and embarrassed,

lost any standing he had in the business community. Also has been kind of robbed of his ability to do drugs. He obviously is still using, but all of the things that you would say are markers of his identity, he is being told, like, you can't have that. He's been reduced to literally shoplifting, petty crimes. To feel something. Yeah. He's essentially like Logan's blood boy.

Yeah. He's like, walking around, he's like, here's your pill. Here's your water. You have to eat during this time. When Shiv discovers that he is, that he's shoplifting vaploid and candy, she is taking it back because he could, as she says, buy the entire industry. Yes. Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about Shiv because I thought in some ways, like, there is always like this weird search for a mother in this show,

especially among the male characters. Roman finds his mother in a very specific way. We'll get to that. But I thought that the embrace between Shiv and Kendall was pretty maternal. It was. You know, the closest thing we got to this previously was that moment, the end of season one in the Boathouse, where you kind of get the feeling of the emotional dynamic between the siblings minus Connor. And kind of even an inkling about the emotional support that Shiv provides.

and here really seeing it, it's something else. It's something else. Like, that is a more intimate moment than she ever has with Tom, her husband. Yeah. And there's a really crucial line where it's like, it's the same thing that Stewie said to Kendall earlier in the season, but it's like, can we actually talk? Yeah.

And that's all people do on this show is talk. But they are all playing parts. They are all playing, like, I can't show you this part of me because that is a vulnerability or that is a weakness. And there's like that brief second in this episode where they are allowed to be human with each other, and it's so moving. So we're buying Kendall and Shiv.

It's amazing. What are you buying? I'm buying history. Yeah. The scope of history, you know, being a history. Just the scale of it. Mark Ravenhead, an ATN anchor, is under fire in this episode for possibly having fascist and Nazi sympathies.

But if you really look at the evidence, being a panelist at a fascist conference could happen to anyone, right? Reading Minkoff a couple of times, maybe three. What Easter eggs did you miss the first time? Naming his dog, the same blondeie, which is Hitler's dog's name, different spelling, so it's completely different.

And then also like getting married at the Eagles Nest, Hitler's Bavarian retreat. That's all circumstantial. The guy is, it just loves Hitler. He loves that period of history, loves the scale of it, loves the scope of it. That's all. And history is important, as we all know. Okay. I'm also buying Pierce because I think Pierce is going to get bought. That is the sort of legacy, Blue Blood Institute, media institution that Logan is desperate to buy because he wants to get too big to fail.

Holly Hunter plays Rea Jarrell, who is sort of the CEO of Pierce, but also the emissary of, hey, no doesn't always mean, right, a total no here in this negotiation. That scene where they're in the panic room, Kendall clearly goes to the bathroom to take a bump, comes back out. And the three of them are kind of negotiating in all their separate ways. We're like, Shiv is speaking perfect corporates. Kendall is like $22 billion, $22.5 billion, $23 billion. Shiv is on the one hand speaking corporates and also like taken aback at the central role that Kendall appears to keep saying,

Dad, can he do this? Is he allowed to do this? And they're all playing future games. It's like, hey, if we buy this, are you still the CEO? If we buy this, is this Shiv's thing to set up? Is this Kendall's? Is it Logan's? Is Logan just gonna turn around and stab them

right in the back and destroy them, which is what everybody thinks he's going to do? The arc of that meeting is really interesting because it begins essentially with Drell giving the Roy's, the family, the Pierce, family line, which is essentially fuck off. And then as soon as they get up to about $25 billion, she's like, oh, well, I might think you're serious if you keep going.

I know. That's so perfect. What else are you buying or selling? I'm going to sell the ruse that Logan Roy is actually interested in naming a successor. No interest. I think it's becoming, if it wasn't previously, evidently clear that what he wants to do is play his children and his siblings off of each other. in ways that bring out their usefulness.

I could see Pierce, you know, Pierce obviously as a stand-in as like the Salzberger's, kind of like the New York Times meets CNN news platform. They would be attracted to a person like Shiv being a point person in this deal because she's, you know, worked with Democratic politicians before, maybe has viewpoints that publicly align with Pierce's public viewpoints. And Logan could not miss that. Yes. So he's got his attack dog in Kendall,

and then he's got his attractive daughter who is left leaning in Shiv. The modern face of the company. Remember previously in this season when he's like, get me a woman, get me a, you know, this is what he wants. This is what he needs. Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by Kroger Groger Grocery stores. Did you know that one in eight Americans struggle with hunger? Yet 40% of food produced in the U.S. gets thrown away, and a lot of that food waste happens at home.

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home, visit CLRbrands.com today, or pick up a bottle from a retailer to you. Trust your clean to CLR. Let's get into number one boy, which is essentially who won the episode. And, uh, hey, Jeremy Strong gave an amazing performance. Incredible. Dynamite stuff. I thought Sarah Snoke was incredible. Unbelievable. As she, as always. There's only one number one boy. And that's Roman, man. He finally. Because Roman was like throwing 99 this entire time. Yes. In real America, putting a pizza roll in his mouth and then putting it back on the plate. But he made a friend. And I think we may have a bridge to sexual satisfaction from my guy. We've been wondering since season one, like, what's Romans deal?

Yeah. He can't seem to have sex effectively in any kind of way. His previous girlfriend was like, yeah, I remember the only time we had sex is like, you kind of masturbated near me one time. And then can't even have phone sex with his current girlfriend. and then finally we get to it. This kind of long simmering maternal flirtation,

whatever it is with Jerry has finally burst forth into a... Burst being the operative word. Yeah. It is definitely burst into a kind of like sadomasochistic psychosexual, like a carnival of humiliation

that he clearly needs in this moment in his life. For sure. Yeah. Jerry seems to take it in stride. She seems deeply amused by it. I suppose you could also say that she could use that against Roman at some point. It's a great arrow in her quiver

at some point, I would imagine. But yeah, Roman just calls and is just like dom me and tell me I'm a piece of shit while I rub one out. And she's like, all I'm doing is drinking a martini and watching the news. So it's the, you know, what the hell?

Jerry, Jerry, come to my home and call me a bed bug in front of my wife and kids. But it's like the best part about this is that it was just like one, one of a number of incredible Roman moments, including he made a friend, which was a fantastic stuff. Unbelievable. Yeah, really made a friend. Yeah. I can't wait to talk about that. All right.

So that's our number one boy of the week. Let's get into biggest burn of the week. I think I'm going to go with Logan. Frank. Frank made it out of Hungary alive. But I barely go with Logan saying to him, why don't you take your library card and fuck off when he makes the Coriolius joke.

He's a Coriolanus. He switched sides. No? Nobody? Anybody on that one? I don't think Kendall is like dealing with those guys of Shakespeare and deep cuts. What's your biggest burn of the week?

Roman getting left out of the Waystar introductory video at management training? Unbelievable sightgats. begins with Logan Roy saying, you're joining Waystar Royco, one of the most vibrant multimedia platforms on Earth. And then you get Kendall saying that, Waystar Royco, feel it.

And then a half a second of Roman going, and it just cuts. It was like the Too Many Cooks video. And it was just like, there's one more Roy kid who's going to suck you look up. So yeah, that was our biggest burn of the week. For line of the week, I'm going to go Roman again. I love Roman's frame of reference, even if he doesn't know what he's talking about.

I'm stripping back to basics. This is my white album. I'm definitely going into everything in my life now, and I'm going to be like, this meeting is going to be my astral weeks. I'm really just going to get in touch with heartbreak in this meeting. Can we talk about this? So I love this joke because it's on the one hand an incredible deep cut reference. and then like on another still deeper level,

like the white album was like one of the... Like a production masterpiece? Yeah, like a double album? Like one of the Beatles' most complex records? But it would definitely be something Roman saw on like an elevator screen one time that was like the white album, the Beatles is like... He was just like, yeah, back to basics. Yeah, stripping it down.

Like I kill the king, become king, just like Hamlet, whatever. What was your line of the week? Brian, the person that Roman meets in management training, introduces himself to Roman with this line, I'm an enigma, you can't pingeat, homie, I'm there and then I'm gone, I'm intellectually promiscuous but culturally conservative. I work hard, but I do not play hard.

I play easy. Why would you play hard? Unbelievable stuff. And it's just great that Roman recognition. as a fellow traveler. It is like we need to fast track this guy. I've got I found someone. We need to fast track him. We get into Finance 101. I know I mean we've been getting so many emails about it. It's important. Like you know Jason and I even got a complimentary Bloomberg terminal. I love this. It's been really, I mean I wouldn't say

educational because we kind of already know all that stuff right? I'm still looking for the on switch. They have all the, there's too many letters and like and Well, I just don't even know, like, when it goes up or down. Right. I don't understand how that worked. Also, like... Is that like frozen orange juice? Also, is Bloomberg, like, Mayor Bloomberg?

Yeah. So he said we couldn't drink wine at Prospect Park anymore, right? We can't do that. No. And that's why you're where we are with China. And I mean, when you get down to it, right? He made those? Yes.

I think that's his hobby, you know? Wow. That's been Finance 101. Let's get into Let Them Eat Cake, the crazy, rich moment of the week. And I think this is a field of one. You correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm going human footstool. Footstool fiesta, baby. Greg just kind of being like, hey, like the human footstool, the routine humiliation, verbal and physical, and also Nazis.

Like, I just can't do ATN anymore. I love that Greg, you know, at much cost to possibly his own career, made sure to keep a hold of the hard copies of all the wrongdoings on Waystar Roy Cor's Co's Carnival line. But has also personally witnessed Tom using a co-worker as a footstool. It was like, the other thing is Blackmail. And is that, no, but I can't use that. Yeah. Why use that? Also, Tom's, like, active delight at being blackmailed is, like, everything you need to know about this show.

Is it? You do it. Are you blackmail? I accept your blackmail. I thought that was incredible. Let's just talk briefly for episode five predictions. I want to get back to Kendall. I do not want to end on a dark note, but stop putting Kendall on roofs.

Yeah, there are clear foreshadowing of Kendall. jumping off a roof? How does Kendall break? And how bad does he break? And I think that they are isolating him. He can't talk to anybody. He's increasingly alone in the world.

He kind of reaches out to Greg and he kind of reaches out to this person or that person. But he's just like him leaning over and putting his face against the window. Even last episode when he's just staring off the balcony, like in that moment when Shiv comes and speaks to him And the way this episode opens with him walking up the stairs,

that really strange sequence of him climbing the stairwell. It just feels the tension is palpable. And I feel like something bad is coming through. Yeah, I don't think it's going to, there's a world that this show needs to play within. Like, there are like kind of guardrails for any show. And I have a hard time imagining a show without Kendall or without Jeremy Strong in it. But you can't just go back to being like funny, vicious success. session after that. But what Kendall is up to is my biggest interest because...

I love this theory. Is he playing back against Logan again? The fact that he's in charge of his medication, you and I mentioned, we're talking about this. But the other thing is that there is a darker possibility that he is like playing Shiv. Right. That is... Which is entirely within the realm of possibility. Next level, ruthless. That would be next level. That he is inviting Shiv in somehow to corrupt her. to betray her, to essentially position himself back in next-end line. Because he says one of the most touching lines of the series is,

it ain't going to be me. It's brutal and devastating. And him laughing at it, kind of just being like, I'm so screwed. But, yeah, I mean, like, it's not a prediction. It's just, like, what happens to Kendall is kind of, like, the driving dramatic force of the show for me. Yeah, I do wonder, you know, like, it just seems the medication thing I do wonder about. Like, is he going to, does he think, well, either I kill myself.

Or I take him out. I do this for the rest of my natural life until he dies. And who knows, like, what is released, what news is released upon the time of his death. Or I take him out. Yeah. Like, you know. That's, it's pretty amazing to think about that. And then also, like, all the pure stuff coming up.

Because I think that we obviously are going to get more of that in the coming weeks. I'm really excited to, at the possibility of seeing, like, the, mirror image, the left-leaning mirror image of the Roy family, in the Pierce family. Yeah, and just like how they play that where they're just like, yeah, you know what? Like, I'm just going to watch you guys eat for five minutes and then skulk out. It's like everything is everything. You know, there's no rules. Jason, thank you so much.

This has been number one boys. We will be back with you next Sunday night after the East Coast airing of succession on all the usual channels. Thank you for watching. Can I get an escort out of the building? Yeah, sure. There's a Jaguar waiting downstairs.