The Watch - Breaking Down the First Episode of 'Briarpatch' (Live) | The Watch

Episode Date: February 7, 2020

Andy reflects on his journey to creating 'Briarpatch' and the challenges of creating a pilot episode (1:00). Then, Chris and Andy are joined live on stage by Sam Esmail, Kim Dickens, and Jay Ferguson to break down the first episode of 'Briarpatch' (27:58). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Guests: Sam Esmail, Kim Dickens, and Jay Ferguson Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly and welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. Patrick Mahomes and the Kansas City Chiefs are Super Bowl champions. So for coverage of the game and everything that happened in Miami, check out the Ringer NFL show for their game recap. And on the site, you can read Danny Hyfitz on Andy Reid, Roger Sherman on Patrick Mahomes, and Robert Mays on Kyle Shanahan's Super Bowl deja vu. On the Ringer's YouTube channel,

make sure to check out Slow Newsday with Kevin Clark live from Miami with a bunch of special guests like Miles Teller and Glenn Powell. You can watch and subscribe at YouTube.com slash The Ringer. I need sports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now. Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at The Ringer.com.

And joining me in the studio, he's the showrunner for Briar Patch and so much more. It's Andy Greenwald. Oh, you want mellow. My voice is shot, dog. This is the end of a day. We usually record bright and early. Yeah, so we're recording this part of the podcast on Tuesday.

It's Wednesday. It's Wednesday, which is the day before Andy's show Breyer Patch premieres. What an exciting time for everybody. Yeah, thanks, man. Today's episode is pretty simple. Andy and I are going to have a spoilerific conversation about the pilot, the first episode. They'll go for about 1520, however long. However long he can give me in his busy schedule.

I got hours. And then the rest of the podcast is the recording of our live show that we did in Hollywood with Andy, Sam Esmail, Kim Dickens, Jay Ferguson. all about the first episode of Breyer Patch and what it was like to work on the show. It's a little bit more of a general discussion. Cruise control comes up. So, you know.

As does Kaii McMullen. And she was shouted out from the stage by Sam Esmail, who then denigrated both of our taste. That was great. So it was basically, you're all going to be very comfortable with the conversation you were here later. So what Andy and I are going to do now is talk a little bit more granularly

about the first episode. What was going through your mind when you made the first episode? You know a question I haven't gotten a lot? I've been doing a lot of interviews. You know a question I haven't gotten? What perspective did you bring to it as a creator that you had as a critic? I bet everybody has asked you that.

Everyone's asking you. Wait, really, what was the question? What is the question you haven't been asked about this yet? In what ways did my friendship with Chris Ryan sustain me? Inspire me? Lift me up? No, I mean, like this is really exciting. You guys have hopefully seen the pilot now,

which is insane to me. Yeah. And just a little bit of a TikTok here, and I think I talk about it a little bit from the stage. Sure. But moved here to Los Angeles, California, in August. Are you going to give people your biography now?

No, I'm just saying in August of 2016. I was just a Jewish boy from Philadelphia. Like so many others before me. No, I mean, I wrote this script almost verbatim, like in three weeks that fall. I think you wrote some of it at F&B, the commissary here at the Sunsanky. hour studios when we record this podcast. I did. Do you think there's a rights issue because of that?

You should ask the guy who makes you coffee. Do they claim it? And I just saw the draft. I sent it to my agents on October 7th, 2016, and Sam wanted to make it that month too. And now it's so many years later. And it's finally going to be on TV. It's surreal. I mean, we filmed this in the fall of, I don't remember what year, in the fall of 18. So the journey of it is just so wild. And like, it was such a secret for such a long time and now we can talk about the fact that we had real zoo animals on our show and that, you know, there's two car bombs and all sorts of stuff. Even people who read the book know how much we change things. So this is the trippiest part because it's just actually now going from something that, I mean, you saw a version of the pilot over a year ago. Yeah, I saw, I saw like an early

cut of it. I saw, and then of course, obviously I've seen it a couple of times since then. The big thing I wanted to talk to you about is that you have so much to do in the first time. episode. Oh, I thought you meant in general. You have to build the world. Yeah. So you have to show us what Saint's Grace looks like. You have to introduce us to pick.

You have to Rosario Dawson's character. And you have to create all this like plot stuff. So that's a lot. And then you also, you want to like kind of like write your signature too. It's not just what you're writing. It's like what's your handwriting. And you want to tell people it's okay to laugh here. It's okay to be scared here.

It's okay to flinch here. It's okay to wonder whether. whether or not this guy or this woman is on the level. Tell me a little bit about spinning all those plates because I think we can watch shows and we can be like, oh, you see how outsider did that? That was very cool. He added that line in here.

But what was the process like working with Annalalia Ampura on the directing of it? And like a lot of really incredible people, obviously, behind the scenes. But when you're like in the first episode, how much do you want to show and how much do you want to tell? Yeah. I mean, there were certain things that I just felt made sense. So a lot of this has been about the education to me as a visual storyteller, which is very much a work in progress.

And Lily gets, I mean, Sam gets a ton of credit because Sam is obviously an incredibly gifted visual storyteller and pushed me and pushed everybody to go for it and go for it in big ways. A lot of the credit goes to Lily. There's an example in the pilot where, I mean, the first time you see Allegra Dill, she's getting off this plane and she looks fucking amazing. and it's this huge cinematic shot. In the pilot that I wrote in 2016, we never saw her get off a plane. We see her, well, first we see her in her DC apartment, much like we do in the book,

getting a phone call from Strucker. We filmed that and we cut it. It didn't work. And so the first time you see her in San Bonifacio is in front of like some shoddy terminal building and she has an interaction of the skycap. And she was like, why would you show an ugly building? We're making a movie here.

You know, like we're going big. And so she made our locations person scout out this small airfield outside of town and created that shot out of whole cloth, which is like the signature. Where'd you get the plane? Introduction. That was Sam's.

Sorry, no, it wasn't. It was Emmys. And similarly, like, what Allegra, I had a really strong feeling about who she was and what she felt like, you know, on the page, but I didn't describe what she was wearing. You know, I really wasn't sure what someone in her position would look like because does she just wear like business cats?

Like, what is that? Right. And it was Lily who said Bianca Jagger and sent me a bunch of photos of Bianca Jagger at Studio 54. And this is pre-AOC with the pantsuits, you know? And just they're so riveting and so iconic, I think, and made this, a person who wears that suit of armor to this place

tells you almost everything you need to know about her. Yeah, the clothes that Allegra wears, do a lot of the filling in the blanks because her personality, especially in the first episode, is like so tight. She's keeping it so bottled up. She's an iceberg character, and that was why getting someone like Rosario was so important, because you have to be able to watch someone, you can't take your eyes off or even though you have to assume there's much more under the surface.

What's an iceberg character for folks that don't know? I just made it up. Oh, cool. I mean. Wait, did you talk about this on stage? Maybe. Okay. Did I ask you what an iceberg's character?

This is probably going to be super boring because we're just going to, we're so tired. We're saying the same thing. No, no. I mean, this is like, this is good because I think that in the book, the, Ben Dill is the same way. He is more like the continental op and Dashel Hammond. It's like the nameless investigator who's kind of drifting through this rogues gallery. Yeah, and that was the thing that sort of really helped break my mind open as to what this was versus the book, which was when I was writing those first few pages and those scenes in the DC apartment that we later cut.

I was like, why is she so unemotional? And then I was like, wait, Ben Dill is unemotional. Why don't I question him? So that really gave me perspective on my own biases in writing a woman in this role. But there were other details, too. You were talking about painting like a visual picture, like the cigarette business, that's in the pilot was something I had because I just thought it would be visually interesting

because we expect someone to do something and they don't and also this element of control tell us something about her in that regard and then the zoo animals which was, you know, everyone knows my long history of loving animals on television shows. But that was just the kind of thing

that like the experience of writing it, yes, at F&B, apparently no free ads, but you're getting a cut of that one or whatever latte I order. Do you think I have points on F&B? Apparently. Yeah. that I was writing it.

I was writing that taxi scene where she's arriving in town. I wrote the thing linearly. I didn't like outline it and write it out of order. It just felt like there was a dead kangaroo in the street. It just felt like that would be the kind of absurdity that she would be coming back to

and everyone else is taking it seriously. So I guess she sort of has to adjust to it too. And obviously there's whatever metaphor you want about the feral nature of the town. But hopefully we have something to say about that that's more interesting than just that one, facile analogy. What was the hardest part to shoot in the pilot?

What was the hardest scene to shoot? It's a good question. Not even like technically, but I think even like I'd be curious to know like intellectually because one of the things that was fascinating about watching and go through this process is the amount of time that gets spent being like, even like even what you said,

but with Lily being like, I don't want to see a boring building. I want to see this cool plane. Like, you know, I can feel, I know that you guys had conversations about like, if this person is here, how do they get over here? Like really practical questions about space and talking.

and conversations, the flow of information. Was there a scene that you were like that was really secretly challenging? It's almost hard to answer it now because the experience of shooting nine more of them was so much more challenging that in retrospect, I mean, a pilot's really hard because, as you're saying,

you should go do the one episode a year style. Who does that style? You want to name names? Sherlock, I guess? Apparently. Yeah. Because in retrospect, it was kind of luxurious. We had to build the world,

but we also had 13 days to do this one episode of television where for every other episode we had eight days and it's one case seven days because we gave one day to another episode. So we were never on stage. We were always on location. So for me, like the day that we were at Felicity's apartment and we shot all of the stuff with Strucker, the great Chris Mulkey. With her going through and being like looking through the cabinets and stuff like that.

And then also the big scene out front where... That's my favorite scene. that speech she gives. In the apartment or after? After when she's doing like, this is like my sister and left piles. Didn't live here. And then into the car,

into the explosion, like that was, we were there until 4 in the morning. And that was hard because I don't like being awake that long. I definitely like passed out on the cat. We were staying, we were shooting, Video Village was in one of those unused apartments in that complex.

And I definitely like passed out for a minute and then woke up and hurt Chris Mulkey calling the town like San Geronimo or something. I was like, okay. We better jump in here. So that was challenging. Like being in that hotel for three days to shoot all this stuff, especially up in the hallway, was challenging. But not.

Same steak every day? No, that we had multiples. We did have multiples of the steak. Because if you, I have a steak guy, if you ever... You got a steak guy in the southwest? Yeah. Phenomenal. We just used kangaroo meat.

Oh, God. The, I think in some ways the thing that I was most nervous about is at the end. We had the giraffes there, and we were at the Baines Mansion. Jake Spivey lives. And that scene was the hardest thing because I knew that if we were going to pull this off, a lot of things had to click. And one is we had to find the right cast. And certainly we had to get the right person for Jake who we found in Jay Ferguson.

But the second thing is, you know, this is rookie showrunner stuff. Like I wrote a pilot that builds to a 10-page scene. You're not allowed to have 10-page scenes. And they were all making fun of me. Like, even at the table read, like the network people were like, good luck with that 10-page scene. It's coming down. The scene between Jake and Lager. The Lager and Jake scene.

And so, you know, Lily was smartly, you know, gave us like almost two days to do one scene. And then they sat down in that hot room with the sexy Tony Scott lighting, as Lily said. And, and they had it. So we did it, obviously, you know, dozens and dozens of times. Is the VEEPen in the script? No. No Vey PIN in the script. For people who know Jay Ferguson, or maybe you'll hear it in his voice on the podcast that you're going to hear soon,

or the stuff from the stage, he is perpetual. surrounded in a cloud of smoke like pig pen from the peanuts comic strips. And so he was vaping pretty hard. And Lily and I were both like, that looks really cool. You never see kind of a cowboy vaping. And so he was very comfortable with that particular prop. And also the other thing about that scene that I'll say is obviously fake beer in the dungy beer cans.

But Jay being a pro downed them every time and like went through a six-pack. Stella Adler. Yeah. I mean, at a certain point, Rosario, was like, can you just fill this with tap water, please? because this is a lot. But they did, they delivered. And so that was the thing I was really nervous about. They were incredible.

And then when we got to the edit, you know, we had to trim it. And there were lines in there that I loved. And it actually got to the point where our friend, Gina, who was a brilliant editor on the pilot and on a couple other episodes, was telling me, like, lovingly, like, we're going to have to give it a look. We're going to have to bring it down. And I had to leave the room. Like, basically, like, my child was undergoing surgery. Right. And I had to leave the room while Gina and Greg Tilson,

Made it short, made your child shorter. And they brilliantly did a version of the scene where they cut like five minutes out of it and showed it to me first, and it was awful. So that when they showed me the version that cut like two minutes. This is what Kai and I do with all your takes after you leave on Monday. I assume they're very short. And anyway, so that was the process of that scene. The episode, you know, opens with a bomb and closes with a bomb for the most part.

And there's only one in the book. That's a change. Good change. Thanks. A lot of bangs. Why have one bomb and you can have two? Lily loves blowing stuff off. The arc of the episode, I think, is sort of defined by those two explosions.

Yeah. Because, and I don't even mean narratively, I mean emotionally. Because when you first, you're going to have to help me out with character names. When you first see Felicity and her death, the response is if you're conversant in crime fiction, or a certain kind of crime fiction, and Tim Sharp's character, Harold. Harold says, honey, like... That appears someone just blew up the landlady. Yes.

And it's kind of like played for... this kind of almost, not quite comic relief, but like, it's maxi. That's verbatim from the opening of the book. Right. But the way that Allegra is kind of processing everything by the end of the episode feels way more real. And I think it takes you as a viewer on a real journey where you start out and you're like, okay, yeah, yeah, it's all like finger guns and we're having a great time here in the

Southwest. And by the end, you're like, oh, shit, like she is feeling this. I mean, that's the thing that was interesting to me is that, like, you and I love noir, we love the tropes of the genre. We love watching movies or shows or reading. books where characters always know just what drink to order. They never appear to be drunk. They always know just what to say. They have a clever rejoinder. They can pick locks, blah, blah, blah. But those are suits of armor. And the benefit of 10 episodes is you can use those episodes to blow

the armor off of people and show the humanity underneath them. And so that moment when Jake and Allegra see each other, neither of them had models growing up. They're both wearing like action figure versions of what they think successful people would wear. But it was important to begin to show that Legra's going to have whatever cool she's managed to acquire, not just like you're a cool person, but literally like she keeps it cool, blown off of her. And we're going to, she's going to have to deal with the stuff that's, that's underneath of it. And so the idea for me that was interesting was her sister's death, not as an abstract, but

that she would come close to experiencing it herself. She would feel the heat of the flames in the intensity of it. Made all the more poetic by the fact that she has this distance from her that struck her to her, like, did you even know her? Like, when's the last time you saw her, you know? It's really tricky too because one of the rules we have for the season, if not the series, is no flashbacks. I don't like flashbacks. I feel like they're usually kind of a cheap or facile way to sort of get people's emotions going or to tell instead of show, basically.

And so one of the challenges, and people can say if we did it or not, is to make Felicity worth caring about. Sure. Even though she's only with us, there's such a brief amount of time. Exactly. So to feel her worthiness as the spirit that kind of haunts the show and motivates Allegra's actions. and so the idea of ending this way was to see how rattled could she be. I mean, she spends three days in this land of wolves by all these creepy men talking wild shit at her. Yeah, but each time she meets somebody new, they go through the same sort of,

it's almost like she's like in a receiving line at a funeral, the entire episode. Which is episode four, by the way. Yeah. But like, you know, everybody comes up, Pamor respects, here's how I felt about Felicity. And every time she's like processing it a different way because she's not only hearing about somebody that she maybe doesn't know that well in some ways. But she's also analyzing the person who's telling them that to be like, what are you trying to get across to me by telling me this? People love to tell other people who they are and how they are and then use other lives as sort

of reflecting mirrors for their own. And I feel like that's another thing that's interesting about when someone is removed from it. When someone has died, then their death has to have meaning for everybody else who's still alive. And so sort of using or abusing that absence to suit your own ends, that's a very, that's kind of a very post-psychotherapy way of describing something that happens in a lot of Ross Thomas books, you know? Yeah. And so hopefully, in so doing, like, that's the kind of updating I wanted to do. Yeah, I mean, I think that one of the things that you and I both love about him, I think

my favorite book by him is The Fools in Towner on our side. His epic. Partially because it's his epic, but also because one of the cool things about Ross Thomas books is the thing that gets talked about is the thing that in most books would be the subtext. So in a book like The Fools in Town are on our side, it's explicitly about these group of characters who arrive in a small town

and are like, we are here to corrupt this town. Now, most books would be about the subtle corruption that happens through like the machinations of different, you know, various actors. They're like, no, this is who we are within this story. I thought that one of the cool things Breyer Patch did is have characters who are aware of, not self-aware that they are in a crime story,

but are aware almost of the tropes. of crime fiction. Yeah. Which obviously, in some ways, this whole thing is like a love letter by you to the thing that has meant so much to you over the years. Tell me a little bit about working in that metafictional way. Yeah, I mean, there's definitely more of it in the pilot than anywhere else.

And maybe that was because I was being sort of self-aware of what I was doing in a way that I think at a certain point I was just doing it. But that the stuff about Jake's lines, basically. There's always a dead girl. There's always a dead girl. And, you know, that's obviously, that's me talking after five years of being a TV critic. Sure.

There is. Dear Russ Cole. But really, they always follow a pattern, you know, and bad guys get away with stuff and, you know, the haunted figure who becomes obsessed chasing something is almost as tragic as the person who died. And so I kind of wanted to state that, put down those fend stakes, because I think that's, I think that's true for, you know, certainly in terms of how people process entertainment and people are used to those ideas and then try to, try to chip at it. I don't know. It was important to me,

and this is something that you'll see as we move forward, that obviously this is as much about, I mean, this is nothing new. This is all detective stories. It's as much about the detective as the victim. And it was important to me to try to suggest that being the dogged investigator, doing busy work and investigating might not actually be the clearest or healthiest way to get clarity on something. Yeah. And one of the things that happens over the course of the season is

you know, Allegra is a little too hot. She's a little too involved. She's a little too emotional. And she's not always that good at her job. And a main character not always being good at their job is one of those very, very subtle things.

It turns out it's a lot harder to do in practice. Yeah, it's also, it can sometimes be the thing that enrages people while they're watching it. Exactly. I mean, even we were talking a little bit about outsider. I think I've maybe more talked about this with Jason, but the idea that now the viewer is ahead of the

investigators on Outsider, and I, you know, obviously, like, the Allegra is the central character, and she is in almost every shot of this show. She's in every scene for the first, I think we break POV at the top of episode three.

To the first time. It's just Chris shaking his head being like, what if what if it was cold out? But, yeah, like the idea that you don't want to let the viewers start to second guess why they're invested in this person specifically solving this.

Yeah, and the relationship to mysteries in general, I mean, people have heard me say this before, maybe even in context separate apart from this TV show, but when you and I talk about the writers we love, whether it's Ross Thomas or certainly someone like James Crumley, who we talk about a lot as well,

I don't always know what happened. Oh, fuck no. And I don't always really care. Now, that's not to say I didn't care about the mystery and the show, because it's really important to me that people who tune into USA to watch a sexy mystery show. That's the USA Network. USA Network, not this failing democracy that we're in.

I want them to be satisfied. I want this to be a mystery show that people are engaged by. But I do think that while it's important to service that, you really, if at the end of whatever the last episode is, people are like, oh, that's why he or she did it. and that's the only question they wanted answered or they're focused in on the minutia of how it happened, then I think you failed as a storyteller.

Because I think the goal is to get people invested in the larger world and the larger questions that are interesting to the world and particularly to the emotional state of the people who are still alive. Yeah. So that is the trickiest.

I mean, we're sort of, what we're talking about might sound kind of vague because you guys haven't seen the series yet, but this was the trickiest. Yeah, because you're dealing with like essentially like five or six like dense conversations

that make up this episode. This episode is just people talking, which is the other thing that was... I mean, it didn't really follow any... You gotta get more fucking parkour in this show, Andy. I didn't read Bob McKee's books. You know what I mean? Like, I kind of can't believe

they'd let me get away with it because it's just a character moving like a knife through the world talking to people, talking to weirdos, one after the other. They have a cumulative effect on her, obviously. Since people have now seen the show,

can I just say the one last big thing that was, you know, we didn't... We got a real tiger, guys. That was a big deal. Yeah. You can listen to our live show that's coming up. It's a little bit more of a general discussion,

but we do get into the real tiger that is in this show. A tiger that he has a deep connection with. I don't want to spoil anything from that conversation. Are there any other, like, I'm trying to think if there's any other minutia that I can point out to people in this pilot. What other things are there to look for? Would you give a tip of like keep an eye on this without giving it tipping your hand too much? Well, every character that's in it is there for a reason and I love them all.

I think they're phenomenal. When we were in edit forever, the fact that Singe drinks a giant glass of milk. Oh, yeah. Is really funny to me every time. I would say before you ask, yes, the hotel clerk chip is an homage to Barton Fink. Yes. I don't think anybody was questioning. that that was that was pretty clear you know i just just

the thing that was fun for me was falling in love with all these characters and all these actors and then getting to tell them whether it was whether was getting to tell them that if things worked out we'd get to see them again yeah we'd come back and play and i don't can't tell you how rare it is because we only had four cast members under contract for the series we only had risario eddie brian and and jay so when i'm saying to charles parnell who's totally in demand and went off to film top gun to in between the pilot in the series or david at Zeldavar or Tim Sharp. We'll run this back.

It's too bad that you guys couldn't keep Florence Pugh. And get it. That was a recast situation. She was supposed to be the waitress in the bar that serves. God, she would have been good. Yeah. But I would just, you know, keep an eye out for Allegra Edwards, who is, play Cindy and is in the background in the apartment a lot.

And, you know, it's just the kind of thing that makes this job really fun, which is she is a brilliant actor and she auditioned with a scene that I wrote for a potential episode two before we even shot the pilot and then ad-libbed that entire scene with the great Chris Mulkey. All that business between the two of them was ad-lib. That's great.

All the stuff with the guitar and the get fiddle and the like, can you sing you are my sunshine? And she's like, you're the sister. All ad-lib and she's so great and funny. And I always knew that the character was going to come back a little bit and by the end of it she was in nine out of the ten episodes. Oh, that's awesome. So yeah, man. I don't know. I think one thing

it would be cool. Annie and I are going to try, I mean, we're definitely going to talk about every episode in some capacity. I think it would be cool, not to turn everyone in these into a mailbag, but I'd be very curious to know what other people want to know about this. I would love to answer questions. One of the things is that I think that it's going to be tough because like it is a mystery, so we don't want to give anything away. Yeah. But, you know, we would love to talk as much as as possible about this show because obviously it's pretty rare that the person who wrote and created a television show also has to come in and talk to me twice a week. Except for, didn't they do that on Chernobyl?

Oh, yeah. And Watchman? That's true. But it's like... It's like Craig Mason, but like I've known you for even longer. Then you've known Craig? Yeah, which I... You and Craig go whitewater rafting.

That's true. Every so off. That's true. We should just talk about Iger counter. Kaya cue the whitewater rafting music. All right, coming up next is the live show that we did in Hollywood a couple of weeks ago. We hope you guys love Briar Patch, and we will be back on Monday to talk about non-Briar Patch stuff for the most part.

Yeah. And then what we're going to do is release these episodes on Thursdays right after the East Coast air of Briar Patch if you guys are watching along, which you should be. You'll be able to get like an inside kind of DVD director's commentary right after it. And guess what else I can say right now? If you like the first episode of Briar Patch, the second episode should be available on demand right now.

Are you serious? A week early. Did you tell me that? No. Is this your breaking news? I'm breaking news on Mike. Are you allowed to do that? I don't know.

Let's see. I'm off the chain. Now. Off the tiger leash. Greenwald, good luck, man. Love you, Brancis. Hope you like the show. Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by the Real Real, own iconic luxury

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try out the Real Reels white glove service for free in home pickup today. Shop in store online or download the app and get 20% off select items with the promo code reel. That's the Reelreel.com promo code Reel for 20% off select items. Hello! Thank you guys for watching the first episode of Briar Patch and thank you for coming out to this live taping of a very, very, very special episode of The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. editor at the ringer.com and joining me on stage, the creator of Briar Patch. It's

Eddie Greenwich. Thanks, buddy. Thanks, everybody. You know, during the screening, I found, you can't do spalding gray on me. I got it. I discovered in my jacket that was so lovingly provided by Risa Garcia, who did the beautiful costumes tonight, who was here tonight, a pin left over from when it was fit. And I thought that was perfect, because, and very Briar Pats. because I could just slowly, slowly just push the pin into myself to make sure that I was alive. You're feeling great. There's no nerves. I feel great. Andy. Did you guys like it? Thanks. These are, every single one of these people are one metacritic. That's fantastic. I'd like to give a special thanks to the Nielsen family for coming tonight.

Appreciate all you do. By the way, while we have you guys your attention, just for the people in this audience, obviously, there's a lot of really cool stuff in this room. so feel free to take pictures and really enjoy the space, right? I mean, not while we're recording. No, I mean, no. Feel the space. Yeah, but, you know, feel free to wander around. I've never sat this close to you during the table.

And if you're going to put anything online, it's hashtag Breyer Patch or hashtag release the Snyder cut, which is... No, it's released the Ryan cut. Chris had notes. Andy, I want to get to tonight. Can I also just say, and I will say it again at the end, but I just also especially want to thank everyone here

from USA, from UCP, from Paramount, and from making this incredible evening happen. I mean, they branded the beer. That is probably the single most exciting thing about it. So I hope you're enjoying a bunch of more. And if you're drinking, you're actually drinking, what's to say? Yeah.

Gingling from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Yeah. It's too great. Yeah. Okay, so Andy, I have obviously a ton of questions I want to ask you, and we're obviously going to be bringing out Sam S. Mail and Jay Ferguson and Kim Dickens in a few minutes. But let's start with this.

I hate to go TED talk on you, but if... Then can I stand up? I would have to have the mic like this. Yeah. If you could go back to the person who made that pilot, now that you've gotten through this entire... In September of 2018. Right.

And now that you've gotten to this entire process and we're in January 2020, what would you tell that person that they didn't already know? I think take the idea of a meditation practice seriously. I don't know. I mean, it's a tough question to answer. are because I like to joke and then sometimes not joke that this was the luckiest and most

incredible and intense graduate school that any person can ever go through. What you guys saw was the pilot. We started prepping it in Albuquerque in the summer of 2018, like July. We shot in September. We posted all October and November. Sam and two wonderful people here tonight, Alex Seppiol and Elise Henderson, absolutely ruined me by announcing the pickup on the podcast. That was a sick burn. It was such a long and complicated and such a humbling process. And honestly, all of this has been. So I like to look back and think, oh, I wish I had known better what to do here.

I wish I had realized what ambition on a script could actually look like financially on the page. But everyone was really kind and supportive of letting me figure this out on my own pace. So I'm trying to be, in the spirit of the meditation practice, that I have not yet adopted, but I did download an app, trying to be compassionate towards the things I didn't know. So I don't know one specific thing.

Sure. It wasn't that great of a question. I just wanted to break the ice. One of the things that Annie and I've been talking about for years on the podcast is our love of crime fiction. And Briar Patch is obviously based on a novel by, I think probably our shared number one, like AP and Coach's poll.

My favorite writer. Ross Thomas would be our favorite writer. I remember, I can't remember how, I think you obviously discovered him. Yeah, I spent basically 2005 to 2006 hunting down every single one of his 25 books, almost all of which were out of print. And I had this, it was really,

nobody told Andy about Amazon. Well, no, I mean, that's what was so fun about it. Like, I actually, this is super, this is definitely the kind of thing you can do pre-kids, but it was really fun to, like, search, use bookstores all over the country and then find one. It was like uncovering gold

and they all these great pulpy covers and you sort of could feel the history of them. But reading all 25 of those books and absolutely adoring them and feeling it was criminal that they weren't very well known. Getting Chris turned on to them, telling everyone,

and even for a long-time podcast listeners have probably heard me back in the Grantland day saying, someone should turn Ross Thomas books into a TV show. Well, reader, someone did. What's funny is we were also like they should make a TV show out of Star Wars and nobody listened to it.

No, that was really one of our rare misses. What were some of the... You basically adapted this book as an exercise at first, right? Like it was kind of like challenging yourself. Yeah. So we love Ross Thomas books. We should do a whole podcast just about them. They're all great.

Breyer Patch isn't even my favorite, but I sort of recognized at the time that it was maybe the most malleable. His books are never straightforward. This show is also not straightforward. I want to see all the writers nodding right now. But in many ways, it's his most direct. or less baggy. Because, you know, it's a pretty familiar trope. It's in the book, a man, Benjamin Dill, returns to his hometown. It's unnamed in the book to uncover his sister's murder.

And some stuff happens. And so that always felt like that's a great, classic familiar spine to do something new with and try to update it. So gender swap the lead, bring it into the present day, add zoo animals, add a second car bomb to make people like the pilot, then realize you've painted yourself into a bomb corner and have to figure out what you're going to do next. Get Ferguson to wear the infinity gauntlet. Get, No, get Ferguson. For the pilot, because we've obviously talked a lot over the years about the mechanics of how people pace a first episode, a first season,

how they tell their story. We've obviously noticed over the last, I think, four or five years that people are tending to dump a lot early on in their seasons. They're basically leaving nothing on the table, and then they'll worry about what they have to worry about next season. This is obviously an anthology, I guess you could say, or if we do another season. and it would be a different story.

Sure. How did you decide when you're writing the pilot? You guys want to surprise me with a renewal tonight? Sorry. How did you decide, okay, I want to grab people's attention, but I got to kind of keep some of my cards to myself here? Well, as I mentioned previously, car bombs. They test great.

No, I mean, what was great about this, and it was really fun, and you mentioned this was an exercise. That's right. I mean, my agents, Dan and Peter, who were here tonight, I met with them when I moved out here in 2016, and they said that they needed a new sample for me. Why don't I just take one of those books I was always talking about and just do it? And so it was the best writing experience I ever had because... Grapes of wrath.

Yeah. By John Stein. Open. Chapter 1. How do you write a screenplay? But there was no expectations, and so it was just incredibly fun, and I could take great liberties with the characters. and really just ask a lot of questions, which I think a good pilot does,

and also try to make something that would be satisfying and fulfilling if I only ever got to make one of them, because at no point did I ever think I would get to make more. And again, I keep referencing our friends from the network here. You could also come up and tell me this is just all been a prank, and you're taking it away. So it was super fun and super focusing, and I wanted to just sort of introduce the town,

and I wanted to introduce the idea of this character kind of cutting through it like a butter knife through, I guess they cut through butter. That's a cool analogy. You're doing great. But anyway, I knew that there was a lot of exciting things to uncover and it was really only the first step of it. Okay.

Why don't we bring Sam S. Mill up here? So we're going to bring up the executive producer of Briar Patch. Just before he comes out, I want everyone to know, we asked the AV team here if we could play a cut from that great YouTube. two album that was put for free on all of our iPads, which led to one of our all-time best podcasts. And I wanted to play it, but, you know, we weren't able to do it in time. So everybody hum a song from that album, no one remembers.

All hum different U-2 songs at once. The executive producer of Breyer Patch, also you know him from Mr. Robot and Homecoming, Sam S. Mill. No, this is fine. This is, when we do the thing, this is usually... Well, you usually sit across from. Sam, you're kind of like the Tom Hanks or the watch at this point with appearances. Is that true?

Five Timers Club, maybe. Is that the most? It's probably the most. Our producer, Kaya, McMollan's here somewhere. Where is Kaya? Is she here? There's Kaya. So, Kaya, let me just, can I just say this really quick?

Because we did the top 10 of the decade. We did. Kaya's list was by far the best. It's the one I listened, I watched the most. And I got to say, unbelievable, is one of my favorite shows. It would have probably made my list had I seen it at the time. So, Kaya, thank you, wherever you are. By far the best list.

Are you guys good? What's your number 10 for? Do you want to do top 10 moments? Are we doing it? What was it that you responded to when you first? Actually, why don't you just tell us how did you guys? I have to, okay, so I'll tell you. So, you know, I know, right?

It'll be okay, Andy. So. I didn't actually ask a question. This is this good thing? Well, I know. Okay, go ahead. No, no, no, you go. He has an answer.

So Andy's an amazing critic, amazing writer, and I used to read them before you somewhat judged Mr. Robar a little harshly in the beginning. Early, early, early. And you weren't, it took you a while, you warmed up. And then you started like, but I was, I was a fan.

I was a huge fan. I didn't realize. Sam, I didn't realize at the time that new dramas on USA should be greeted with nothing but open arms and celebration. I now see the, error of my ways. But I have to say, so as a fan,

I got giddy when you asked me to go on the podcast, which at the time was the Hollywood prospectus, right? Yeah. That was called? You were on remote from L.A. We were in New York. New York. Yep. And I was like, and then we did the, I think we did the top 10

that first year. And then I was, you know, so excited. And then Andy gives me the call, right? This is not true, but this is his version. Hey, Sam. I have a script. It's 100% not true.

And I'm like, okay, here we go. You know, just in case you wanted to read it. And, you know, okay, all right, Andy. Send me the script. And he just sent it to me as like a sample. And, you know, in the industry, what happens is you write a sample based on whatever, you do whatever. And you're just trying to get people to know about you as a writer, as a television writer.

So he sent it to me as a sample. And, of course, I felt up. Because, you know, at the time he was still a critic. I was worried, you know, about my own show. And no matter what, I was going to like the script to him. You know what I mean? But then I ended up falling in love with that. And I think I called you pretty quickly.

And I was like, this is not just this. We have to make this. We have to make this. You did. That's the legend. Go ahead. Let's hear your version. The truth was our other executive producer, who I believe is here, Chad Hamilton.

Chad Hamilton, where is it? He sent it to you. He did. That's true. Because I didn't ask you to read it. But you did call me the next day. And it was incredible. It was incredibly exciting.

And the script was incredible. The rest of it is wonderful. And immediately had a glowing review of Mr. Robot Popper. Yeah. No, I had already hosted your after show. And I am waiting for you to return the favor. Oh, yeah. I'm there for it.

I think. Briar Patch. After Patch? No, we were going to do the We were going to do the pre-show called Prior Patch. That's C.C. Brian Henderson for that show.

Sam, what did you respond to in the script? What was it that made you? I thought the dialogue was so fun and so lively. And there was never a detail missed. The zoo animals, just the whole kind of, every scene took you off balance.

You know, one thing that you look for when you read any script is a voice, right? And that becomes a cliche. after saying that and hearing that so many times what does that really mean well it means the thing that you can't define that's so unique to this piece of writing or this piece of work and andy just every scene every line of dialogue just had that I mean and it was it was exciting to read it was one of those things right it was not a chore like I thought I mean honestly I had all these

you know things going on when I was going to read it and then I just found myself really having a good time. I was smiling the entire time. That's so nice. That's usually a good sign. And then I should also add that like what was amazing, we had our, we talked about it and we talked about some things. Then we had a meeting out at SML Corp at Sam's company

with Sam and Chad and with the aforementioned Elise who was at UCP and Garrett Campbell. Elise is here? Is Elise here? I believe so. And Garrett's here. And we all sat down and I had spent, as many people know here, like four and a half years just, just bemoaning the

lack of like creativity and chance taking in television and saying like you should always do the bravest choice and you should always try new ways of storytelling and I went into that meeting being like so in season two allegra meets the real big boss behind it all and maybe her cousin is murdered and she has to investigate that and I immediately became the most conservative safe TV writer imaginable because I thought that's what people from a studio would want to hear and Sam in that meeting just looked at me with a look I've seen many times since and said, why would you do that? Why would anything else happen to her? That's ridiculous. Do the riskier choice, which really was the most important advice I got throughout this entire process, other than maybe look into

meditation. Sam, did you talk with Andy much about how the show would look? Because obviously you're a very accomplished filmmaker. Did you have much, would you like, you know, I didn't watch. Watch more. One Cohen Brothers movie, bro? No, because... First thing you said was, it's supposed to be funny, right? Right, right. I did want to confirm that, yes. I got to say, I did not want to...

I did not want to put my own, you know, influence in any way visually on the show. I want... And honestly, Andy already had a specific tone and vision he was hitting. You can't write that script and not have a specific way this is supposed to feel and look. And I mean, honestly, it's, to me, that's why when we got Anna Lilly to direct the pilot, who's also a really

visually impressive and exciting filmmaker, it just, it just, I think, channeled what I think you were going for. And I think made it more so, and I wanted to draw special attention to Lily. She can't be here tonight. She wishes she could be. She's finishing a film, posting a film in New York.

You know, we met with a lot of really, really talented directors. A lot of people who had all the correct influences, and mentioned Blood Simple Coen brothers and things that we loved and definitely were influences, and then Lily walked in with her suicidal tendencies t-shirt and biker shorts

and was just like Oliver Stone's U-turn, David Lynch's Wild at Heart, and Tony Scott's top gun, and we were like, take me. Perfect. But truly, like, we wanted to do a hot noir, and we wanted to not make the safe choice, and we wanted to work with someone who would push it, and seeing it again tonight, I'm just

so grateful for the darkness on the edges, you know, that she found. It just occurred to me because I do think we threw around Cohn brothers a lot, but that wouldn't have been right. She's even seen a Cohn Brothers movie. She wouldn't mind me saying this. No. Not her trip. Tony Scott was the better reference.

Yes. Or like the giraffe shot when we were setting it up, she was like running around all the departments saying, this is Jurassic Park. This is this is fucking Jurassic Park. And we're like, okay. And then we got to the tech scout. She had like 70 people crammed into the hotel in Albuquerque. It's a set for series. but for this pilot it was a real hotel

that would weirdly not let us bring a tiger up there. We asked. And you can do a lot in Albuquerque. But anyway, we were walking down the hallway and some people here maybe have been on that tech scout and she just said, look, it's a fallopian tube. So, you know.

They got it. They got it. They nailed it. It's pure fallopian. What did you guys, You mentioned Albuquerque, and I did want to ask about what goes into building like a world that we see up there, because everything from the sense of geographical space of like, there's this main street, here's the hotel, here's where Jake's house is, to the beer that you see, Dungy, which is actually a reference to another character in the Ross Thomas universe.

Like these little details that if you are kind of immersed in the world, you really know, how fun was that to like build the like non-plot parts? So fun. Too fun. Like, you saw the scenes in the press club, and on the wall, there are newspaper clippings. I wrote all those stories, and no one will ever see them.

And then we got to series, you know, our wonderful writers, I know we made Eva Anderson and Haley Harris write a lot of them, too. Details matter, you know, and I'm sure this is the same way Sam approaches everything, too,

I'm sure, is that, like, the art is in the specificity and the choices that you make. Like, what was the beer called? Like, just... Dungee. Yeah, exactly. Well, there's two beers.

There's the Texan beer Dungee, and there's the Mexican beer, Luna, That's what it takes to be a showrunner right there. I mean, honestly, I remember when I went on set and you were looking at the labels of the beer in the refrigerator that's never going to be in the shot that they were setting up, but you cared about that.

We couldn't have any real brands in this world. Everything is made up. We have our own soda brand that they're drinking, and then you see an ad for it on our fake telenovela magazines. I mean, this is where the fun is, and also a little bit where the madness is. but I just think that you have to care about that stuff. You can't let any of it slip because everything is an opportunity.

But it was also not a chore for you. You actually enjoyed it maybe a little too much. Probably too much. There's a lot of headlines that didn't need to be written, but were 100% written. And one of the things I'm excited about for people to see in the series is the sense of space. And we found a made-up town. As I said in the book, it's probably Oklahoma City, but it's never named. and I really wanted to create a city, San Bonafacio, Texas,

and so we had to find it. In Albuquerque, we did find it. And found so much more. It's so much more. Like altitude sickness. Sam, did you give Andy one piece of advice before he went off to set, before he went off to start this adventure? Did I? I don't know if I...

Don't fuck it up, Great Wall. Yeah, I probably definitely said, but I probably said that multiple times. Then you said you're fucking it up, Greenwald. Then I'd go back till you're doing great, but please don't fuck it up again. There's a steady drumbeat. I don't know. I think honestly, I think it was probably referencing that one moment that Andy brought up in that meeting. But in general, I think I just, I remember the advice was just don't play it safe.

Always try and go for it. Yeah, and we try. I mean, that was in our heads in the writer's room with every episode, which tries something different and tries on a different opportunity or adventure. venture basically. But, no, I mean, you were, Sam, Sam doesn't like to present himself as warm and cuddly, but you were very, very kind. Careful. No, you were saying you were to tell me to enjoy it. Yes. Yeah. That is one thing with that. And even this process is, as now this is coming out in, what, a week or so? Feb six. Feb six. And, you know, I want, I want you to enjoy that part of it, too, because this job is taxing. and it's overwhelming. And there's a lot of plates spinning all at the same time in your shoot.

And you were doing what I did in the first season, which was flying back and forth. This guy was like editing episodes while they were still shooting episodes. And then he was also writing the last three episodes. And sporadically appearing on a podcast. And then, yes. That was most texting. We want to bring some of the actors that we have here on stage.

So let's bring up J.R. for, Ferguson and Kim Dickens from Briar Patch. Guys, thanks, thanks so much for joining us, joining us on stage and here on the Watch. Both have been on the watch before. Both having Kim made a brief appearance. Under a gazebo on the set of Spivey's Mansion. Yeah.

Not my first time. And then Jay, Jay did a nice long 45 to an hour-long podcast with us from the set. Probably a little too long. That was a little too long. Jay, let's start with you, man. What was it that jumped out at you about Jake when you were reading the script? his gregariousness and on a level that almost seemed unrealistic and unwarranted. But I know guys like that.

You know, I know people like that. And it was such an easy place for me to go to because of that familiarity. with those types of characters in my life. And a little bit of my grandfather, too, I think, was in there for me when I first read it. And so all those things, you know, you long, as an actor, you long for the opportunities when you read something that just, you know, the words just come out effortlessly. And that's kind of the reaction I had when I first took a swing at it. But I went in with some crazy ideas, and this guy, you know, indulged me.

And, you know, ended up batting down about 90% of them. But he let me keep about 10, so that was fair. And Kim, for you, I know that we haven't met Eve in the pilot episode, but what was it that you responded to about that character? Well, I feel similar to Jay. I mean, I'm a southerner as well. And I thought the dialogue was just so gorgeous. I just, I mean, I've done a few southern things where it's by southern people and it fits, you know, and it flows.

And the music of it is just perfect, you know, and Andy wrote like that. And it was such a fun character on the page. I only read the second episode. I'd seen the pilot and I talked to Andy. and I just wanted to do it. But like, Jay, too, I was like, I know, I know this person. It was a little bit, for me, it was a mixture of this woman in my town that ran this antique store. And she just talked a big game and she talked all day long about everything.

And they said, God bless you. You know, at the end. And then, but it was a mixture of her and my stepfather. So it was just, it was the kind of stuff you got to do when you were in acting class. You know, like characters you'd never, you'd never really get to play, but you could play them in acting school. It was kind of like that. It was fun. You knew the kid from Philly.

Yes. Right. For Southernery O'Connor. I tested him too. I said, hey, is there Southern writer in your room? And he looked at me like, wide-eyed, and he's like, Florida? And I said, no. The Jewish Flannery O'Connor.

I don't know how he did it. I mean, this is, again, like, this whole year has been full of pinch me moments, but obviously getting to work with actors like these two were chief among them. And, you know, when I was. basically everyone saw Calvin Stracker played by the wonderful and brilliant Chris Malkie, who has been petitioning me for now over a year to have his character's twin brother arrive, team up with Allegra to investigate the deaths of their siblings, because he had a great time on the show, obviously had a great time with Brian Garrity,

who's hiding back there somewhere tonight too. But one thing that was important to me was that the pilot, she's really in a land of wolves and she's surrounded by men. And I was excited in the second episode to introduce a new character, who would be a different kind of foil for her. And right away, I was like, the worst thing you could do to Allegra Dill is hug her. There's nothing worse you could do in any even moment.

And so the writers will attest to this. We were basically saying, like, you know, Kim Dickens type. And the fact that we can, you know, can write a letter and send a script and get the real deal is just, it's still amazing. I wanted to ask what it was like to work with Rosario. Because obviously she sets the tone, obviously in the show, but both of your characters have to do a lot of interaction with her and a lot of reacting to her.

What was it like? What do you think she brought to her performance that was so special? Well, she was dialed in. Excuse me, she was dialed in constantly. You know, the eyes don't lie. And the eyes are always a great way to tell if you've got somebody opposite you that is there with you, you know, in that moment. And there was never, never a question for any of the stuff that we did together. I mean, almost, almost to a point where it was intimidating, you know. So it kept me on my toes. Yeah, she's a great leader. I mean, she was so grounded and so strong and everything she did.

And she's surrounded by these like wild, eccentric characters that are like flying around the room. And she just holds her ground and just you go toe to toe with her. She's fantastic. and she's such a just like the warmest, most loving person you could have as the lead. Tell me about the casting of Rosario and what that did to the writing.

Because I don't think people understand, like, I remember talking to you about this story and there is like a distinct like BCAD from when Rosario became the lead. Oh, yeah, to the point where like, I can't imagine anything about the character or the show without her. I mean, Sam can speak to this too.

Like, we, we, in the original script, there was almost no description of anyone, one way or another, physically, because I just was really excited and I didn't have anyone in mind. I just hoped that we could find people who could play these larger-than-life characters. And I think that when we both heard the idea of Rosario, I think we were both really excited because we were looking for someone, and it was tricky, for all these parts, it was tricky, but to find someone who could basically play what I was calling an iceberg character,

who in this first episode is keeping everything bottled up and under the surface, but it has to be someone who you want to come up with that despite that iceberg character i mean i james cameron came up with it first but we did you know creative casting um so uh but also isn't this this is a part when when risario's name came up it was like why the fuck hasn't she ever played this character i mean it's not to reference another great podcast on the ringer network here but if you guys listen to the rewatchables uh for some reason, Chris Ryan did not bring up Briar Pets to Quentin Tarantino when they went on and on about how Rosario needs that role,

that character that's just going to fit her like a glove. And I kept waiting. I was listening. Chris, Andy hasn't brought- to fucking Tarantino. So thank you. Yeah.

Did not happen. Because I thought Sam was going to be dragging me. This is not exactly. We don't have to litigate. No, please. Let's. No, but seriously. Quentin, come up here?

Yes, Quentin. Seriously, when I was listening to that conversation, that was what I think I felt when Rosario's name came up. It was like, God, why hasn't she done? This is like, she's born to do this. Yeah, and she... And as a fan of hers, it's like, I want her.

And you just want to look at her and watch her go through this world and play all the humanity of it. And it was just the most incredible experience to watch like the scene where she breaks down in the hospital. We did, you know, seven or eight takes of it. And she just, every take, and delivers on this emotion

because she was so dialed into it. She's also just a badass. She's just a badass and she does it really well and it's effortless and it's not over the top or cheesy or forced. It's just in her and yeah. And I don't want this to sound too much like a love fest but it absolutely is and was a love fest for me

and these three actors, Rosario and Kim and Jay, everyone at the top of the call sheet basically set a tone that was. so exceptional and so professional and so warm and so collaborative and so fun. You know, Rosario and I went to the Toronto Film Festival together and

there's all this travel snafu and she was also home visiting her dad during that period. The next day when we got back, I won't spoil anything, but she and Jay are in the desert for a long time. I don't know what your call time

was, but they're sitting there laughing and setting a good tone and I God knows what you're feeling on the inside, but you made everyone in the crew feel good about it. And so it allowed us to all really enjoy the experience. The last, we're always real, man. Yeah, it was a great time for us. It was really fun.

I wanted to ask you two guys, especially, because one of the things that Andy and I talk about a lot on the pod is working within genre and then subverting that genre a little bit and constantly surprising people. And it's really cool watching the show because you can tell how much fun you guys are having with it. But at the same time, like, you can tell that there's something else coming with each of your characters, that there's a lot of layers to each of these characters.

They're not just types in a noir show or a noir story. Are you fans of this kind of stuff outside of acting in it? Was it sort of a trip to be in something like this? I'd never done this genre. So, yeah, as a fan of it, like, I like Quentin Tarantino movies and film noir stuff, but I'm not super schooled on that. So I didn't quite know how, I mean, I saw the pilot. So for me, I thought it was like so incredibly well executed and such an entertaining piece.

And I thought, yeah, I want to be a part of that, you know. It was fun for me. Like I said to Andy, I said, yeah, I signed on. I was like, oh, it's just a one season thing. It's not a big commitment because it's a big deal when you sign on. It's like you sign your life away for a while. And so I thought, oh, yeah, this is great. We signed on for one season.

It'll be fun. It's a beautiful writing, a fun piece. And then by the end, I just wanted it to do more years. I wanted to stay with it, you know. And the thing you guys have to look out for is Kim is obviously amazing in two and in three and in four and in five. But I think six was the script we were working on when we officially got word that you were cast. And that's when I started writing you two-page speeches in every episode. I've never spoken so much in my life than I did in this show.

Look out. And she nails it every time, too. Let me tell you. Unlike me who when I would get those pages, I'd run to Andy and plead with him. on how we could figure out how to make the page a quarter page. In a second, we're going to open up the floor for questions, and we've got some folks out here, I think, who have microphones. So if you have a question, I think they'll come and find you pretty easily.

Andy, I was curious, how many times have you seen the pilot now? Oh, my God. Hundreds. I mean, it's funny. I mean, we were, Gina Hirsch, our amazing editor, is here, we were sitting with this for hours and hours and weeks and weeks, getting it ready to potentially be picked up. And then we tweaked it a little bit before TIF. And then just recently, we were working on this pilot still on Friday, like a few days ago,

because the tiger at the end is a real tiger. And we did not have a real tiger when we initially had the pilot, because as the aforementioned, hotel. cowards, wouldn't let us put a tiger there. So we actually did get a tiger to Albuquerque and shot it. It's when the tiger share representation, or is it kind of like more of a... Did you, none of you guys were there for the tiger day. But I saw the sign that was on the outside of the studio, on the door, to enter the studio. Do not enter for actual risk of death?

Yeah. I remember being asked, would you like to come down and see the tiger? and I said, hell no. Yes, I went. I saw it. It was gorgeous. And speaking of... Tiger have a name? There were two tigers, Shika and Nala. L.A. Talent. You can't get tigers like that in Albuquerque. And speaking of the aforementioned film Titanic,

I did feel kind of like, I'm the captain, so I have to be there, even though these guys can attest from my behavior moments before coming on stage, not exactly the like, you know, calm, cool, confident, brave leadership type. And so I was sitting there, petrified, like, doing the thing where I'm standing with the group, but I'm really like standing behind the group as they bring the tiger in, and they were telling us very gently, like, the tiger does not like sudden movements, so don't make any, no problem. The tiger does not like loud sounds, don't make any copy that. And they were like, if something happens with the tiger, I was like, I have a follow-up.

they said do not run away from the group because the tiger will find you so I was like this is going great and then they said also one other note the tiger has its own playlist that it likes to listen to to be calm and I was like I'm the same way was it like beach house what was it so the first piece they played I don't remember it maybe someone here remembers it was it was like a lovely calm thing and then the next thing that came on was a little bit slay No, it was, it was like, they played something a little more like

modern rocky, like Imagine Dragons or something. I was like, okay, the tiger's a little. And then, and then, it was take me out. Well, then, because, then, but, oh, right, Eva was there. And then the last moment, the song switches, and we hear the famous, inimitable opening bass notes of Enter Sandman.

Really? The tiger just likes to vibe out. Huge Yankees fan, that tiger. We lived. Okay, so let's open it up to questions. Any folks out there have any questions? Before we open up in questions, we actually have something else to share with you guys. It's been phenomenal working with our partners at the network and studios on this stuff.

And one of the things that we're excited to do is we are going to be offering a recap podcast for fans of the show to catch up on what's going on the show. because this is Briar Patch, we wanted to do it in a creative and interesting way. And so there's a character on the show that you haven't met yet. You'll meet in episode three, who's our local news anchor, Ginger Galante, who is Ron Burgundy-esque, I think, in her willingness to get the story or just say all of the words for the story. And so the premise of the podcast is that a year after the events of the show, Ginger is trying to make a name for herself by breaking into this hot podcasting space

with a true crime podcast called Zoo Town. and our supervising producer Brian Brown is writing amazing scripts for the show. Sarah Minich, the great actress, is performing it. And so we wanted to take a moment and play you the trailer for Zutown, the first episode of which will be available on all podcast providers after the second episode airs.

Do you know about this? That's good, right? I was giving Ginger the shout-outs, the unscripted shadow. Yes, and so, for example, you'll hear it in this. So Ginger asked a lot of tough questions of Chief Ray Tech, and Kim Kim always called on Ginger first and then always called on Bobby

there was no Bobby I just made up Bobby Bobby go ahead I said go ahead Bobby and then nobody said anything I was like Bobby I can't hear you so as you'll hear Bobby is a character in the podcast so let's

do we have the visual for it and everything I think we can we can throw to it okay yeah so so Zutown is It was the summer of the zoo bombing. All over San Bonifacio, Texas people had stories. Otters in the community pool. Anubian Ibeck scoring the dumpster behind burgers and burgers.

And so no one could blame Felicity Dill if she was a bit on edge that morning. But Felicity knew this place. How could she not? Much like your humble narrator, Felicity was born in San Bonifacio, had spent most of her life here. When she did leave, first for stints at boarding schools, later for college in Austin,

Felicity always came back. In fact, even after everyone she knew and loved left this little dusty town behind, Felicity made a life here. She joined the police force, rose quickly to detective. She put down roots, investing in property,

a cute little apartment building just on the edge of Packing Town, a rental property. It was Felicity's 28th birthday. The temperature on the Mo Fixen's barbecue sign across the street read 99 degrees. Who knows what questions were running through Felicity's head as she made that fateful walk from her apartment to her patrol car. What adventures does my future hold?

Will the cake at my work have those sparkling candles? What exactly is a Nubian ibex? Whatever the questions, there was one thing Felicity was not prepared for. How was anyone to know how far that I'm going? explosion would reach, that Felicity's remains would scatter as far as our nation's capital, that this was just the beginning of a bloody saga, a tale of family and friendship, politics and power, that before it was all over, it would claim many more lives, both in the animal kingdom and the human kingdom. From Ginger Pop Media and KQUT Channel 8, this is Zoo Town, a story about a little

town in Texas and the big giant car bomb that blew it all to pieces. I'm Ginger Galante and I hope you'll join me each episode as I put those pieces back together. Coming soon to, uh, wherever it is you get podcast. Bobby, we should figure that out. This season on Zoo Town. I am in the Zoo. I repeat, I am in the zoo. Sir, do you have anything to say for yourself? Sir. And then we add this and that should do it. Tadda! Wait, did we just build a bomb? For more information about Zootown,

visit briarpatch.usanetwork.com or search for Zootown wherever you get your podcasts. It all comes back to podcasts in the end. It's the source, man. That was some really good Sarah Koenig there. Hi, I'm Sarah Kinnig. Anyway, let's do some questions from the room. And if you guys have any questions for Andy, J. Sam, or Kim.

Anyone? Are we over here? Down front? Yeah. We got like coming for you. Hold on just a sec. That way? There we go.

You gotta hold it. Oh, we're coming out. You've got to hold it. Okay. My question's for Andy. Great. You talked about, well, we would like to get picked up for a second season. Since it's an anthology series, you know, how do you see that?

Because we have like different examples. We have American Horror Story where they use the same actors. the sinner, they have a reoccurring character, or we have Fargo where they use, you know, totally different story, totally different set of actors. So how did you foresee that? How did you outline that or, you know? These are great questions. Questions I have the answers to. And I would love to give you a chance to know about them. But I don't think I can tonight. But we want, I mean, I think one important thing to remember is that what makes a Breyer Patch story of Briar Patch story is the tone.

And I hope the tone is something that people here got a little bit of tonight, and I think it's something we really found more as we went along the way in the season. You know, we want to tell gripping, noir, fun, hot, weird, surreal stories. I get Baby Yoda in there, though.

Which I've been told. I've been told. And, yeah, so it would be different, but a little. little bit the same. And again, if you guys want to surprise me with a renewal, now would be the time. Next question? Right down here.

The first one's for Andy. You mentioned that Chris had notes on the original pilot, and I was wondering if they were add more smoking scenes. Chris loves smoking. Shout out to the hot take. What notes, did you? They looked really cool as a young... I do have... I actually didn't. I was just like masterpiece.

Put it right in the Hall of Fame. I did have, one thing that you guys probably don't know is, correct me if I'm wrong, Rosario's smoking move, it's Greenwald. Andy used to do that, like, when we're in college, you would, like, hold a cigarette and you would take, like, a fake drag off of it for fun. Not because you had some, like, deep love of tobacco products, but, like, you would just, like, a nervous gesture, right? No, I think there were a couple times when I would actually, like,

decide that I would be a cooler person if I, like, bought Dunhills and knew how to smoke one. so then I would occasionally fumble through like one awkward puff and then pretend that I lost the pack. So yeah, so any character not smoking is a tribute to me. And was there a second part of your question or just that? There we go. You mentioned that this started off as like a passion project of you, you know,

trying to adapt one of your favorite novels. When you started out as a critic, did you always have an eye on narrative writing or was this something that you like fell into after years of criticism? Oh, no, this is something that I, it was weird. Like I was in New York still and doing different kinds of criticism and writing books, I had the opportunity to write a script for a Josh Schwartz produced web series. And I loved it so much.

And then he got a chance to write a second episode that had like the penultimate episode of the series he did called Rockville, CA. That was for the wb.com. And that episode was the penultimate episode, and it had been broken like a story would be in a writer's room, and I had to take those pieces and write the script, and I liked that even more. So that's something I wanted to pursue at that time, and it got an agent and didn't move here, and so I wasn't doing it right. But that's kind of what I wanted to do. And then when, thanks to Chris and Chuck Losterman, they got me on the radar of Bill for Grantland. And then when Grantland started, I just put all the other stuff away because I just felt very church and state about it, despite what Sam thinks. and didn't pursue it at all until in 2015, when my contract was up,

I wanted to give it another shot. Next question? Got something in the back? Yeah. Obviously, novels and TV are consumed in wildly different ways. So what was one of the more challenging things you had when trying to take a source like a fiction novel and turn it into an entire series of TV?

Well, one thing is that it's dated. I mean, the books from 1984, And, you know, as I was saying at the beginning, like, the idea of a white man returning to his hometown to, like, settle scores is something we've all seen before and we're all very familiar with. So it really wasn't a challenge in that regard so much as it was an opportunity, you know, to tell a different kind of story. And when I started adapting it, I was doing it very, like, one-to-one, the first few pages of the novel. And I paused, and I was like, why is she so unemotional? And I was like, I got to investigate my own biases here. why am I feeling that way?

What's going on? And I was writing it during the backdrop of a really cool presidential election we had. Fingers crossed, we get another cool one. And honestly, that was what helped me understand the character better because this was someone who couldn't show any emotion, be happy or sad or angry because it would be a sign of weakness. So that helped me get into it. And also allowed me to take lines that I know a bunch of you gasped at

that are directly verbatim from the book, like when laughter says, how come he treats you like a white man? And when he says it to a white man, Benjamin Dill, it's one thing when he says it to a woman of color, it's something else. So that was exciting and kind of an opportunity. The other thing is the book is relatively straightforward and short,

and so we added a lot of characters, changed a lot of stuff, added the animals, and hopefully took it to a different direction. Because I think the opportunity of a 10-part series is you can do the noir cool things. And when you meet Jake, for example, like, he's just, he's on one. I mean, he's fully in his glory.

and then over 10 episodes you can kind of crack people's armor and see what actually is beating underneath. Next question? Got some right in the middle here? Hello, this question is also for Andy. I'm always fascinated with especially with someone that's

it's their first time creating a show. You want to think that your imagination is the limit as far as what you're writing, but you also have a budget. So did that barrier ever cross your mind as you were writing? And was there anything after you'd presented it that you had to cut? As my writers who are all here and so wonderful that they are can attest, it did not cross our mind.

We really went for it in the scripts. And it turns out sometimes you may have to cut some corners and strip some things out. And then that process was really learning one of if you pull one thread, you know, what else falls. Can you also tell people about the glory of night shooting, which you did? I love night shooting. I love it. I mean, I'm just a night owl.

I love to be up all night. I love to work, you know, so I think you guys can attest that I was pretty cool as a cucumber on those nights, right? Like, really present. Are you talking about the night that you disappeared? I fully Irish goodbye, Jay. There was a lot of lightning delays. Looked around one point and I said, Has anybody seen Andy?

And he was gone. The brilliant thing was we had this lightning delay, so we were all hanging out with our director, Colin Buxey, playing games, and we were all laughing. And so I made sure I got a lot of FaceTime with Jay during the game. Because he knows that's the most important time to give me FaceTime. It's during the gameplay. I ghosted.

But no, but honestly, the truth is, and I can't believe it, we didn't really cut anything of note. I mean, we were incredibly well supported by our studios, and we had live giraffes. We have live tiger. We got the things that we wanted most to tell the story we got, and I'm pretty excited that you're going to get to see it all on the screen. Do you like one or two more?

Yeah, up front. Hi. For Sam and Kim and Jay, was there anything that surprised you about working with Andy? It's still kind of for me. He wasn't there for the night shoots. Really needed him. That surprised you? Just what, I mean, what an incredible leader he was.

I really think that it stinks from the head down. And it was the most amazing journey I've had. I mean, we've been in the business for a while. And we all agree. It was pretty fun on a daily basis. It was beautiful. It was fun. Everybody gave their best.

And it was just a pleasant experience. And that's kind of rare. when you're being a bunch of creatives are together. Will you tell them about our airline fun together? Because Kim and I would often see each other on like the Friday night flight. Because especially if like Jay or Brian Garrity were shooting Friday, I knew we could kind of like sneak out. We got out of there.

Yeah, we were about to board the last flight out to get home. And we get on and the stewardess decides to tell us how it's going to be a lot of turbulence. Christine Woods was there too who's here tonight on the flight with us. There was going to be a lot of turbulence. and in fact, coming in, about seven people had... Can I quote her? She said, just so you know, we just flew from L.A. And we had eight pukers.

And so... And the doors were closed. Like, you couldn't run off at this point. And this is the moment where I'm like, I'm nominally, like, kind of the boss. I've got to set a good example. And this is my worst nightmare. Right behind me, ordering gin and tonics.

And just neck and Xanax when you guys weren't looking. And then the flight got... Then we took off and it actually wasn't so bad. And then I glanced through the seats. and I noticed that she was reading the next script that she hadn't read before. So that was much more stressful because I was watching her flip through the seventh episode.

Jay, would you compare Andy more to a Nick Foles or a Carson Wentz? Like, was it more of pocket poise? Or was he more of like a Tulsie guy? Or just a world champion. Oh, you're really teeing it up for me here. Well, I wouldn't compare, I wouldn't say he's a Carson Wince, because he lands on his feet. But and stays upright.

So I'm going to go with foals, you know. I'm going to go with foals. And I really feel like you were kind of teeing me up to bust his balls a little bit with the other question. And I'd love to take a swing at that too. But I'm not going to. No, no. I just, I will co-sign what Kim said.

It was shocking. how seasoned Andy seemed to be, even though I know deep down he was shaking with terrifying fear because we talked about it on a daily basis because I was feeling the same thing, quite frankly. But you would have never known that it was his first time at the plate. I mean, it was a lot of fun to watch.

Let's do one more. We got one right over here. Do we have time for a quick tofer? Of course, man. Oh, okay. So, first one for Andy. So with, you know, Sam, Lindelof, you know, showrunners at The Expans,

engaging directly with the online community, are you, as a former critic, is that something that you're prepared to do, or is it going to be blind or something? Are you going to log on, man? Like, am I going to live tweet the show? No, like, you know, Reddit, pop in, you know, R-slash television, our slash briar patch.

Oh, oh, like on, like, do they do that? Oh, do you do that? Rather? Yeah. Yes. You get in there? Fuck yeah. Yeah.

Sam is like the physical manifestation of Reddit. Wait, wait, wait. You don't know me? Have you seen Mr. Robot? I know you read it. I didn't know you went in there and you were like, What's up, fam? Big Sam here.

All the time. Do you really? Absolutely. Wow. I'm shocked that you don't know this about me. You got to get on the boards, man. Seriously. It's incredible stuff happening in there.

No? Well, no, I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I really, really, really am excited for the show to live on its own, kind of. But we'll see how long I last. This is the wrong answer. Tell me the answer. Give me some of that vaunted advice.

The answer is, do you even, have you ever been on Reddit, ever? One time there was a thread making fun of Chris and I went on. Okay, just show me. that thread, but at the same time, create an account. It was started by Big Sam S. You got to do it. You got to read it. Okay. You got to do it. That's an

S-mail court mandate. What was the other part of the two? What was your second part of your pot? Will I go on 4chan? No. Or 8-chan. No. So Chris and Andy we know their answer, but kind of end things off for the rest of the team on the stage. Cruise control. Yeah or nay. Oh, do you guys use cruise control

at all? Like when you're driving? Fuck, yeah, man, as often as I can. Negative. You do not. No. I do, because I do have the Tesla, I do have the thing that parallel parks. That's not cruise control. That's just letting a robot park.

So for people who aren't keeping up with it. What is cruise control? Okay, so we've opened up a fissure in Redd and America on our podcast. No, I've never, I thought cruise control is literally hiding right now. You push the button and the, and the car is going the same speed. but I've pushed the button. It doesn't do anything. You're not doing it right.

Have you gone on Reddit slash driving? Slash. But let me just say this parallel parking thing, that's... That's the thing. It's a revelation. How could you cruise control in Los Angeles? I don't understand.

No, no. Not so much within the city limits. But any time I'm on a trip and I'm... When we were in Albuquerque, when we were shooting, and I'd be driving to our locations, cruise control.

Okay, so what does walk me through? So you're driving on the highway. You're driving along, right? Right. And you get to that speed limit that you're comfortable with. This is one of your best performances ever, by the way. You push the button that sets your speed limit. So far, I've done this.

Okay, you take your foot off the pedal. Oh, I don't do that. You get to just kind of do this. But I get, look, how tall I am. Well, whatever. So you put it over here or whatever you're going to do. And then what happens if you have to stay? stop the car suddenly and you're sitting here like the

Lord Fluntleroy. Yeah, you just, you know, you know, you could do this. But and you let go the steering wheel? Or you still hold the steering wheel. Yeah. It's not automated driving. It just locks your this is, this is why our podcast is going out. Also, this is technology was invented 30 years ago. Wait, so the whole

point of this is so you don't have to put your foot on the gas? That's correct. You have an accused of you? Put it right next to the gas pedal. So let's say you're going through a spot, you know, and you don't want to get busted by the cops. And that difference between like 79 and 80 is the difference between you getting a ticket or not.

You just set that bad boy at 79 and you're good. How are you driving 79 to avoid the police? Tell us more. It depends on what the speed limit is. This is reminding me that you found out on the last day of shooting at Bain's Mansion, which was Jake's home. You realized that there was a faster way to get there.

So every single day, Jay lived in this house, essentially, for the four months of production. And what did you realize that you had been going around? to the city every day. Cruise controlling. I was going to... Apparently. It was because I was enjoying the cruise control too much.

I would not have been able to do cruise control had gone that other route. But I would have been there about 45 minutes. But your knee was so fresh. Because you didn't have to keep it locked. All right, I think we'll wrap it up there. Thank you guys so much for coming out. I think if you guys would allow me one indulgence,

like... Oh, yeah. This is really incredible to share the stage with these people who mean so much to me and also to share this room in this experience. So many people who worked on the show

are here tonight and this is their premiere and believe me this show is as much theirs as it is mine and so I really want to call out to them call attention to them.

Do you guys want to come up? Is that super weird? No, let's make them come up. They should stand up. So every person from the Breyer Patch Writers' Room is here tonight. You guys got to come.

You guys got to come up. We got to get Eva. We got to get Brian. We got to get Aisha. We got to get Rayna. We got to get Wayne Ng. We got to get Jay. We got to get Paloma.

Everybody up here. Come on up. We have to get... We can't spoil his nickname, but we got to get Brian Garrity, who you saw... Where do you legs? Come on, baby, legs. We haven't even seen all of it.

He has to come up here. Brian's here somewhere. Gary? Brian Garrity here. Brian Calder. Brian, Brian, Brian Gordierty coming up. Yeah. Tim Sharp, who bared his ass on his first day of work for the show

and only gets better from there playing Harold Snow is here. I hope Tim will come up. Allegra Edwards, who is there from day one as Cindy, arrived for one episode, ended up staying for nine. Christine Woods, who you will meet in episode three, is here tonight. I hope Christine will come up. Our production designer, Richard Bloom, who's a genius, who flew here from San Francisco.

go to work on it. Risa Garcia, our costumes head, is here tonight. Arcahastia Stevenson, who directed Episode 9, and did a beautiful job. I can't wait for you guys to see it. Anybody else who I'm forgetting who's here, there's Eldor who joined us on the show,

please come up. Michael from costumes is here too, I think. Right there in the front. Come on up. I cannot stress this enough that the reason I really wanted to do this was because sitting at home in a room writing reviews is fulfilling on some level but also extremely lonely and the goal is always to work with people who are so

much better at me at all these amazing tasks to make every day look like a magic trick i forgot the editors jena hirsch and joe leonard jesus i'm so sorry wait i didn't remember until i said you got to bring hamilton until i said magic trick chad hamilton come up here and and andy compania i know you're out there with us in albuquerque andy compania another philly native S-MailCorp come up here. Yes. The goal is to work with brilliant people, and I couldn't have been more fortunate to do it.

So this night is your night, and thank you to all of you. And again, I'd love to do it again. So if this is the appropriate moment, USA, like, we're cool. This is good. Now, just pause for a second. No, I'm not. I'm hearing that. What a treat.

Thank you, everybody. Thank you, Jay. Thank you, Kim. Thank you. February 6th, please tune in. Thanks for coming out, everybody. I've got nine more of these.