The Watch - Breaking Down the First Three Episodes of 'The Morning Show' | The Watch

Episode Date: November 7, 2019

'The Morning Show' may not be great TV, but it's certainly engaging. We break down the first three episodes, including the seemingly disconnected plot lines (1:57), Reese Witherspoon and Jennifer Aniston's performances (19:14), and our personal MVP of the first three episodes: Billy Crudup (32:43). Host: Chris Ryan Guest: Amanda Dobbins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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What's up, guys? It is today's episode of the watch. It is Thursday. I am recording this remotely today, and this is going to be my conversation with Amanda Dobbins, where we really just dove in to the deep end of the pool to talk about the first three episodes of the morning show. So Apple released the morning show last week, I guess. They released the first three episodes and you will be able to kind of get a full, spoilerific take on those three episodes. Amanda and I both really enjoy the show. I think we both recognize that it is by no means a perfect piece of television, but we were really interested in what its imperfections are and what its sillier moments are, but also some of the serious stuff that they were trying to capture.

We were very excited about the performances of Billy Cruttup and Jennifer Aniston, not necessarily in that order. Just some housekeeping going forward. I wanted to let you know that we're going to continue to be talking about watchmen on Mondays. So Andy and I will do that. We've got a lot of conversation coming up about the Crown and Mandalorian. So get ready for that. That will be coming in the next couple of weeks. And also, we'll be discussing his dark materials with Mallory Rubin at some point next week.

So that's pretty exciting. A lot of good TV on right now. I can't wait to talk to you about all of it. Let's get into my conversation with Amanda Dobbins about the morning show. You guys, when I first saw the pilot, for the morning show a couple of weeks ago, I had a vision. I saw an issue of vanity fair. And on the cover of Vanity Fair was Amanda Dobbins. And she was standing on a windswept Texas highway. Oh boy. Okay. And she was holding an iPhone. And on that iPhone, the morning show was playing.

And the cover line said, man, I'm just born to be in it. Sometimes the... It's like eight references. Sometimes, you know, like the times they call for a person a hero to rise. Thank you. And I think this is your moment, Amanda Dobbin. So welcome to the watch. Thank you so much. A comprehensive breakdown of the first three episodes of the morning show. Thank you. I feel really understood. I just also want to say, you know, you and I have been friends for a long time, and I've really valued that relationship always. Thanks. Basically never valued it more in the last two weeks when I knew I had a place to just send psychotic novel-length texts and that they would be

read and received and supported and the energy would be reflected back to me. So thank you. I want to start by asking you this. Yeah. Because you mentioned our friendship. So I feel like I'm pretty intimately aware of your tastes. You know? Yes. People can hear on a big picture and on jam session, many ringer pods. But Amanda and I often will talk on the side in real life, just IRL about pop culture, you know? And I feel like you are someone who is not easily pleased by television. Correct. It's not something that you look at in your life as like, I'm just going to have TV on for fun, you know? And so your bar for entry is like kind of high, you know, like, you'll be like, I really liked this or I appreciated it, but like there's only a few shows that

you like love. And weirdly, I would say the morning shows seems to be one of them. Yes. But not weird at all. It's not weird at all. No, I think you said a good thing, which is part of it is that I'm aware that I'm on the show The Watch, but I guess I'm filling the Andy role right here. I don't know how to watch TV. Okay. In the sense of I'm not a person who can sit down and been. five hours. And for whatever reason, my husband and I aren't like, okay, we did the dishes and we've got two hours. So let's sit down and watch our next show. I think part of that is because my husband and I have like very different tastes, which is another thing. But so I'm not a, I'm not the best TV watcher, but also I would say that especially the last decade of television has not always

been in tune with my tastes. Sure. And there are a lot of shows. that I have enjoyed, but this show that has the belt, for example, nine times out of ten, it's well made, well written, really fantastic, but is not for me. Yeah. And this is a show that is maybe not any of the things that I just said, but is so emphatically for me that it reminds me why other people like watching TV, because I just want to watch this. So my first follow-up is, do you feel like this has more to do with TV from 10 years ago, from the pre kind of golden age?

Like, does it feel more like pure mass entertainment to you? Or is there something about it's a beautiful car crash and I just love everything that's going on for better or for worse? It's a little bit of both. I think that it actually, I guess we should get this out of the way. Have you said publicly, like, this show is, it's not great, but also it's amazing. That's exactly what I said.

Okay. And I think the conversation that Andy and I had on Monday was the reason why this kind of ties in is that I was like, I actually sometimes am just fine with TV that's quote unquote not good in the, is it Mind Hunter, is it Fleabag kind of idea of what TV can be now. I like watching stars go through a hour long story. Exactly. Yeah. So yeah, it's not good, but it has a lot of, in the sense of like the writing and the lines that people say to each other and some other things. But it has a lot of. It has a lot of. lot of things that are maybe in common with TVs from like 10 or 15 years ago, or maybe just

now in different ways that I really like. It has movie stars. It's got Reese Witherspoon, Jennifer Aniston, who is a TV turned movie star, back TV star. I guess when I say movie star, I understand that that's loaded because we're talking about a TV show, but that designation is basically gone. It just has stars. It has like real famous people who have presents who you want to watch on screen. It's got Billy Cruttup, who I think. think I have to marry now. It's got Mark Duplass who's like, Mary Louise Parker might tell you. Yeah, right. That's a tough one. Mark Duplast, it's got Google and Bathara. It's got Bell Pally, right? Bell Pally. I believe Marsha Gay Hardin shows up at the end there, and I have to

assume that she's coming back. It is expensive. They spent so much money on it. And in a way, that's not traditional TV, right? No, I mean, I think that often with, I was kind of comparing it with Andy to Grace and Goodwife in like somewhat soapy but really well done

and I think well done can be can mean different things to different people but well done drama with like

like some romance some heat coming off of it it's got apartments it's got fancy clothes it's got various locations sort of

you can just tell that they have spent money on it which is nice I would prefer that more things like had location budgets and clothing budgets. Let's look they got all the Apple products for free. Yeah, exactly. I hope so. Saves money on the iPhone budget.

And in terms of subject matter, it is about, you know, it's about two women in a traditionally, like, quote, women's space for better and often for worse, which is like morning news. But it is also, it's about journalism sort of, it definitely thinks it's about journalism because they say true journalist every five minutes. I'm a journalist. My name is Bradley. Jackson. True journalism is about the truth. Okay. But I am interested in all of those machinations. And I mean, it's about media, which I think we're interested in. We're like a lot of my favorite things from Succession, which I loved and I think is excellent to the Devil Wars Prada are all about media. But so it's a subject matter I'm interested in. And while it is, it has some various, very serious topics, which we'll talk about the Steve Carell plot line. But it's, it's,

It's not depressing. And sometimes I just don't want to watch another show about, like, kids getting murdered, you know, a war. Sometimes I just actually, the hurdle to watching is like, oh, this is such a bummer. And this is a lot of not great things, but it's not a bummer. It's also pretty grown up. Yeah. I thought I noticed that a lot when I was watching, as you get through, go through the season a little bit, you're like, oh, yeah, there's no kids in the show. Right.

Like, I think, you know, Alex has a daughter who pops up, like, intermittently. Mm-hmm. But for the most part, it's about middle-aged people kind of grappling with how their career is impacting their life and how their life is impact in their career, which is a pretty interesting subject matter to me. Right. It's not that I'm anti-kids in TV, but they often are put there to sort of superficially raise the stakes in any given situation, especially the shit that I watch where it's like, my kid's been kidnapped, you know, but this is like, this is not that.

This is about people getting up and going to work. Getting up very early and going to work. Yeah, really early. And I have a lot of notes about... You and me both. So let's say, like, why don't we just start? Okay. One of the things that is like, here's a really good example of why my brain is engaged with

this show. I am fascinated by their insistence that they show us every single day, these people waking up at 3.30 in the morning. And yet they seem to go out every night. They are never like, I got to go home because I got to be in my blackout curtains at 7.45 p.m. to get my eight hours. So Andrew and I talked about this on our ring or dish podcast a little bit, but I can't stop thinking about it.

And this, we're going to have to talk about people's appearances a little bit, but only as it deals in the context of the show, which they're screen testing people for appearances. Okay. And they like show Jennifer Aniston as Alex's wearing like the eye patches. Yeah. And doing the, what's the thing that she runs across? She's using a jade roller. I just, in terms of fact checking, I think someone in her stature would have a more expensive face roller at this point.

They're selling those things for like three to $500, which is insane. But that's what she would be using. a more ergonomically effective one. Anyway, Alex, Jennifer Anderson's character, is drinking so much, so late at night, which anyone who has ever been near a camera

will know makes your face so puffy, hence the face roller. But there is no face roller in the world that is going to roll out like a handle of vodka at 3 a.m. She's taken down oaky reds. It's really intense. And her husband or not husband, which I have some questions there.

Jason? Yeah. Yeah, I would love to know about the nature of their relationship since it's not clear. But he's like, that gives you a headache. Shouldn't you not have it anymore? And she's like, it's fine if I take A-Adville, which, let's be real. That's not true for anyone of Jennifer Anderson's age. But it's also, so we're worried about the headache. But you're telling me that this vain character is not thinking about the extreme face-blooding

that's happening from the amount of alcohol she's consuming anyway. But that's the kind of thing that, like, when I'm watching a show, I just get, like, obsessed with stuff like that. And I think that they almost know that. I think they kind of are, like, of course, most of these people are probably shepherded home in an SUV and go into a cryogenic chamber until it's time to wake up at the middle of the night the next day. One thing about this show is, like, I'm not sure whether it does know. That's, like, my question.

Okay. My question throughout this. Yeah, I guess, like, accuracy is not. Do you guys know what, are you in control of this ship? Yeah. And that's what's fascinating about it. is it's like, especially this script, it doesn't seem like they're 100% in control of where they're steering it.

And their performances are not totally attuned to what's being said. And it's a good point because this show has had a couple of showrunners. Jay Carson initially, Carrie Aaron working on it. It's got Mimi Leader as like this sort of executive producer director of the first few episodes. Lynn Shelton works on it later in the season. And, you know, obviously, to me, it's actually, a non-O-Tor show, though, because I think that Jennifer and Reese are the O-Tor's, and to some extent Correll, even though each one of those characters, especially in the first episode, is in an entirely

different show. They're in the show that they're starring in. Yeah. And that show could be, I'm screaming about being exhausted in West Virginia coal mine, or it could be, I'm using a jade roll, or it could be I'm beating up my television. But they don't know the other show that's happening. No. And that's kind of a, the pilot's a little bit of a tough hang in that sense.

But I think that once those people start to come together a little bit more, the show picks up in episodes two and three. Yes, I completely agree. I still kind of think it's fascinating to, you know, I would have loved to be there for Reese filming the viral video and the coal mine scene because I admire Reese Witherspoon. I think she's a great actress. I think she's been really successful as a business person in Hollywood producing her own stuff and starting producing things for other people. and she reads a lot and she seems pretty savvy. And I just want to be like, are you aware of what you're saying right now and how it's going to go? I think they're completely aware.

I think they are completely because that is such a, aren't we all tired of the left and the right telling us what's really going on when it's really about human beings? I think that's true, but it's also the way that she is screaming. So I understand why they made it a viral video in the context of this show. But that actually, do you think that that video would go viral? Because it's so bizarre. Not really. You're like, why am I watching this? All the new stuff I see that goes viral is always like Rachel Maddow incinerates like hedge funds.

Yeah. You know, or like it's all studio-based like monologues rather than stunted bits out in the field where it's like, this reporter tells it like it is. Right. And it's also, it's things where either people are, yeah, telling it like it is. some sort of concise evisceration of an issue that people relate to and or people are just making fun of someone going crazy. And the show tries to play it like it's the former, but it's definitely the latter. And like Reese Witherspoon is just screaming really weirdly. I would just love to have been there for the choice for the screaming, you know? And I would love to know what the other versions

of that line read were. I'd love to see what like take 12 was. If this was like take 15. Yeah. Yeah. You know? And I'd love to know. And I'd love. to be in the editing room and find out what it was that made them go with that. Because it's a great summation of all of just like the slightly strange choices that they're making where it's like everything is somewhat informed and all of these things could like plausibly happen, but it's just kind of tonally three things too far on the dial. And it just comes together in such a mismatched way. And I think I think what you said is right is that there have been several showrunners, and they're all in different places.

And I think that there's stuff happening in different episodes. So I think that it's really good that Apple put the first three episodes at once because it acts as a very solid first act for this season. Yeah. So it ends, obviously, and we'll talk. This is spoilers for the first three episodes, but it ends, episode three ends with, you know, Aniston taking Reese's hands as they're about to go do their first show together. There's a lot of stuff that happens within those first three episodes.

And I'm like, was this from episode six? Yeah. Or, like, was this for a different conception of this show? like, for instance, the Gilmore Girls plot. It's not even a plot. It's just the repeated mentions of the Gilmore Girls musical. Can you explain that as a... I have literally no idea.

I have no... I don't understand the joke. It's a joke that's written for me. Right. It's like, honestly, like, the focus group, the test group was like, let's make something from Amanda Dobbins. Let's make like a Sorkin-esque joke

about a Gilmore Girls musical. And I don't understand it. But, like, he's online to go see the musical, and he's like, Gilmore Girls is pro-life. Yeah. And then that somehow gets back to Charlie Chip Black, played by Mark Dupluss. He's like, don't say that out loud because you're going to get, you're never going to get the anchor seat if you're against the Gilmore Girls. I have, I guess so. I mean, maybe we're supposed to, and this is the thing, right?

Maybe we're supposed to believe that this is a world where, number one, they would make a musical out of the Gilmore Girls. And that number two, that it would become like a pop. cultural lightning rod and that like people would care. Cancel culture. Which, you know, in a way, the morning show has created that world where like my interests become nonsensical lightning rods. And Gilmore Girls music rules. And I guess, I get, it's really alarming to see it reflected back at you.

Yeah. But also I just didn't understand the joke because I think some of it was just in the editing. Okay. So there's that, there's a couple of things like that where you're just like, oh, weird. I mean, there's a couple of scenes where I'm like, a piece of story will kind of come to a natural conclusion, just like they will say, like, and now everybody knows the mystery is solved or whatever. And then the next scene should be, in any other logical way, the character's discussing that, reckoning with that. And it's just like a different scene. And I don't mean like a

different scene like they cut to the B plot. I mean, all the characters who just found out about something are now acting and behaving in a totally different way. And I think that for me, like as a TV watcher. Like I get very excited when I see Gugu and Botha Raw accidentally wearing the same outfit in a different day. So it's like, so a high powered producer at a morning show

somehow is just wearing the same jeans, scarf and blouse. Two days in a row which would never happen. But she's there because they're bringing Bradley in or whatever. Stuff like that. I'm like, what the fuck is happening here? What happened? Did you guys have to go reshoot this? Did you shoot this one

scene and think it was part of that day? And then move it to the next day. Like, it's so fascinating for me to see that stuff. Well, so I kind of have a theory on this, and I don't know how much is this is confirmed. But I think the answer to your question is yes. Yeah. I don't know anything. This show is based on the O'Brien's Delta book, Top of the Morning, Inside the Cutthroat world of Morning TV, which was about the Katie Couric, Matt Lauer era of the Today Show. And I think, and I believe is also about how, like Anne Curry was brought in to replace Katie Couric, but then Anne Curie was fired because she wasn't likable enough and was about all of those machinations.

But it is pre all of the Matt Lauer accusations. Right. And I believe, I don't know the timeline of this, but my assumption is that they were working on this. And then they were like, we have to do a response to this. But then they just had to totally scrap everything. Right. And so they had Steve Karell on board.

And now they're like, what you're going to do, Steve Karell is go to this mansion that's supposed to be in Westchester, but is like probably like in the Palisades. And you're going to smash your TV. and have, like, weird therapy sessions with Martin Short. And they'd seem totally divorced from what's going on in the rest of the show because I think they just had to rearrange a lot. Obviously, his character would be isolated from the rest of the cast in this case. Yeah.

But there's something very telling about the fact that all of Steve Carell's scenes seem to be with people almost exclusively outside of this group of characters. Yes. Like, they're like, oh, shit, we have to reshoot Steve's stuff in a house somewhere. Right, like you're saying. Yeah. And I think that there's some Reese stuff that feels like that. Specifically, her hair changes length.

I know she gets like haircuts and stuff like that, but there's some interesting wig stuff going on. Yeah, it wasn't the priority for that, I'll say. In terms of budget or concept, I don't think Reese negotiated the wig deal that she needed to. Okay. So in the same way the big little lies, I think, gave people a version of Reese that they had been longing to see for a while.

Yeah. Rees unleashed. Morning Show is giving me something I never even knew I wanted. Really? Which is unvarnished Aniston. Yeah. I like friends. I love friends, whatever.

I've seen it a few times. I mean, like I've seen the whole thing probably a few times just in the background. Of course. We were there in the 90s. We watched it. Absolutely. She's been a celebrity for most of my life. Like, she has been a staple of it.

I wouldn't call myself someone who's like wildly like interested in her. But I feel like she's been waiting to play this part for quite a long time. Totally. And I said the same thing. And on the podcast that I did with Andrew, we talked a lot about how she just didn't do interesting things for a while. She really played it safe. I mean, Friends was a huge deal. And she was kind of crazy famous. And by the way, if you haven't looked at like the coverage of Jennifer Aniston from like 2000 to 2005 recently, like we all went through a mass psychosis together. I like honestly couldn't believe it. I was like, oh, I know why my brain is damaged because I read us weekly every week during this thing. Yes. So I understand why she just decided to be in bad comedies for a while and we, you know, didn't ask anyone to take her seriously. And in a lot of ways this show is her going back to TV. It's definitely in conversation with the character of Jennifer Aniston. I mean, when she sits there at the table and is just like, America loves me.

Right. I wish I could have edited that speech for her because I think that that is like a cool thing that she's trying to do. and I think she is also trying to, she's giving a lot of herself in it. Yeah. But then the actual speech writing is like, you know. It's just like, it's really crying out for Sorkin.

Yeah. That's what it is. And they're trying to do it. And Sorkin is one of the greatest screenwriters of our generation. Right. So it's like really hard. But it does, it is kind of like, you know, the skim wrote a speech for it.

Do you know what the skim is? Yeah. The scheme is like, they take the news and they're like, here's what you need to know. Yeah. They're just like, have you been Instagram stock?

so is Vladimir Putin, who is like, you know, using democracy bots or whatever. I think this skim is one of the great travesties of modern womanhood. But it is kind of the skimification of it a little, and I want more. But I think with she's doing a lot with not a lot. I feel like there's also one of the things that's fun about this show is to watch, like, when the Annison and Reese characters interact. The way in which it's almost like these two celebrities kind of like grappling with what they're going to be on this show. Yeah. I know that that seems like probably like a bit much.

But all the stuff about like where Bradley's just like, I don't like being used. And Anderson's like, I am the puppet master of all. But then I have like vulnerable moments where I'm like I'm scared of losing it all. It just really feels like a very metatectual thing about like older female celebrities aging out of like their last moment in their windows. Yes. Yeah. No, and I think it's fascinating, and I am interested in that, and I like watching it. I think it definitely also feels like they had input in it. And, you know, this is a real 800 cooks in the kitchen situation.

And so, and the script and the actual end result reflects that. But it's fascinating to think about the two of them standing in those scenes, like knowing what they're saying to each other and the input that they definitely had about it and even how they're choosing to play it. Yeah. So I guess we could talk about each episode if you want. Pilot is the pilot. I think it feels a little bit bloated and they're turning a battleship around whenever they're doing pivoting and stuff like that.

It really takes its time with all the West Virginia stuff before they get her up to New York. And to do that, they, like, the crud-up character is basically the Joker. Please don't say that. He's actually...

That would actually dump tail quite nicely with your feeling on the Joker. That's true. It's a good point. Check out the hottest take. No, but... He does, he's like, I don't have like an ethos or an ideology. My job is to bring these two women together for, for no other reason than the fact that I have a phone.

And then you kind of get, once the second episode starts, I don't know how much space there was in between doing the pilot and doing the second episode. Or if they even went through any kind of pilot process, I doubt it if Aniston and Witherspoon, it seems like they just gave them two seasons. But, you know, they get her up into New York and they get her in a hotel room in a hotel bar with Crudup and starting to get involved in this show. And that's where I feel like it really starts to get going. Yes, it does. That's also when the sorkiness just really leans in because they actually start the second episode with yet another cover of creep. It's like a lounge seeker version of creep, which obviously famously was covered in the social network trailer, which is still possibly the greatest three moments of American cinema in our decade. And there is also as an avid West Wing watcher, a lot of Josh Lyman, who's the Bradley Woodford character, meeting.

actually Mary Louise Parker in various hotel bars to negotiate various business things. So they're clearly doing their best to live up to it and doesn't quite get there. But those two have great chemistry. When Crudup really finally decides who Corey is going to be, that's his character, it's really magical. I feel like they gave him carte blanche. I feel like they had so much to do with the Alex, Bradley, and Mitch characters. that Crudup showed up one day and was just like, what if my guy is like a cocaine addict,

but instead of cocaine, he's just high off his own sensory awareness and is just moving through life, like a saddled panther? Yeah. And they were like, yeah, yeah,

yeah, Billy, whatever. Like, I want to know what was Reese's reaction the first time, like she did one take with Billy Crutup. And he was like,

Alex, I just thank you. And it's just like, Bradley, you're what's new? You're chaos. It's like, what the fuck is he talking about?

How would anybody, in his life, like, move to the... He was in charge of the news division. And also, his boss is like, fuck you, I think you're bad at your job. I hate you. And he's like, yeah, Fred. That's what's all about, baby. I mean, it's very true.

Until you remember that he's a charge of the news division, I actually think it's plausible because there is always that guy. But he's supposed to be like the Zucker who's like in charge of entertainment who's been brought to revitalize the news division. Right. Right. Yeah. I think you can believe that

until it's like we're talking about journalism. And that's the thing that's so tough about it is that everyone else is very serious and Billy Kretup, it knows that he's in like a fun show and is trying to be fun, which is why we're so responsive to it. But I really like it. And I'm like, God bless you. I wish that more people were doing Kudup and less people were being like, I'm a true journalist.

I will now read you the tenets of journalism on this like weird live segment that we have about a viral video. this scene between Jennifer Aniston and Reese Witherspoon where they'd like do the on-air interview. Yeah. Have any of these people ever seen a morning show? Have any of these people ever seen a conversation between two humans? Because it wasn't even like, it was more like the Grand Inquisitor from like Brothers Caramazov. It was like it was like it got dark and she was just like, right, Bradley, but you don't really think that, do you?

And it was just like. To me, it's like a fucking Ein Rand novel. If she cared about women just being like, and here will be my pronouncement on individual. individualism versus like the objectivity of truth or whatever. I was like, what is going on? You could say that, I mean, like, so the newsroom is a good comp for this show. And I think Studio 60 is even better one in the sense that Studio 60 created a world in which a sketch comedy show was somehow the moral compass of the country. Yeah.

And, you know, this show imagines the morning show being like every morning, everybody in America wakes up and chooses one of three morning shows to have like their lives dictates. by. Yeah. And so let's put that aside. At least the newsroom had like an understanding of how like a newsroom would work. And like we were saying before, like I'm not like filled with a ton of confidence that the Mark Duplas character is like an actual executive producer of a morning show. He doesn't seem to know what's going on at all.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, they have a writer's room. And it just, it honestly seems like they don't know totally how the morning show works, but they do know how a scripted TV show works. And so they're just graphic. I mean, Mark Duplass is very believable as the guy who is bringing you, you know, whatever HBO show you're watching on a Sunday night because, in fact, he has, like,

been on eight of them. And the writer's room and Jennifer Aniston coming in bringing, like, milk bar to bribe the writer's room. She's like, we're here all weekend, except I'm not actually going to do any of this. Goodbye. Right. And being all scripted is really interesting. I'm sure there actually are writers on a morning show, like doing bits and stuff and setting up the segments. and I'm sure that some of it is scripted.

And I'm sure there's a lot of segment producers who are like, I'm going out there to find the dog that saved the fireman or whatever. That's very real. Though I'd love to talk about her strategy. At a show in Fells. Yeah. But I agree that

the thing that you said about the morning show being a place like a lot of people wake up and they turn on one of three morning shows and they want to watch it. You and I don't do that because we're under the age of 50, thankfully. But millions of people still. Sure, no, I don't doubt it.

Yeah. And it also makes it, it's essentially like the last thing that makes money for networks. Yeah. And I think it's also, there are lots of people who do and TV isn't often made for them and series TV isn't often made for them. And a lot of those people are women, it should be said. And so I actually like that this show is set in that world because it is, it is like aspiration, oh, like trying to be prestige TV for a different type of people. But then this show doesn't really seem to. want to meet that audience where it is in terms of how these things work, which is why you have

like Mark Duplass running the, you know, Mrs. Fletcher writer's room or whatever. Right. What do you think is the flip side? So the flip side would be the way in which Aniston, in which Alex goes about like orchestrating Bradley's ascension to the chair. Tremendous stuff. You and I lived in New York for a long time. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that. It takes place in the media. Not that I'm like the encyclopedia of all media moves, but can I tell you where I've seen it? Yeah, that's a little move we've stolen from the Devil Wars Prada. It's just like those writers have been in that room.

I know what they have been watching and I've been watching it too. But the Miranda Priestley, the Merrill Street character, does the exact same thing to save her job. Right. And throws Stanley Tucci under the bus in the last part of the Devil Wars Prada. I forgot about that. But it's amazing that basically they're stealing moves from the Hollywood version of a tel-all book written about Vogue. almost 20 years ago. Right.

Probably, yeah, not the same thing anymore. Yeah, and then, but, right, especially also in terms of, like, social media and how these things work, because then, like, everyone surrounds them and they're all whispering to each other, like, don't look surprised. Yeah. You know, we had this all planned as, like, 45 people with cameras. And then they're like, let's yank her out of here and take her to the network. That's not how it's going to work.

Also, just the Marcia Gay Harden playing, what if Maggie Haberman was a media report? Yes. But also it was like mega powerful. Mm-hmm. Is just my favorite shit. It's my favorite bit of the show. They don't even bother change. Like it's Maggie Brennan.

They like change two syllables. Well, I have to assume that she'll become a character later on, right? Yeah, I'm sure she'll be recurring. And she's sort of like Maggie Haberman. She's also, I assume, a Brian Stelter stand in as well. Yes.

Yes. But like I think is like somebody that you have to like, it's like Maureen Dowd or something that like you kind of have to like curry favor with and influence and stuff like that. It's a show that's like stuck in 2002 in a lot of ways, even though now it's set in 2019. Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by Google Assistant. The Google Assistant is ready to help you get more done with just your voice in the car, at home, and everywhere you take your phone. When you're driving and want to listen to your favorite ringer podcasts, hands free,

just say, hey Google, play the latest episode of The Rewatchables. Okay, here's the latest episode of the rewatchables, The Shining, with Bill Simmons, Sean Fennacy, and Chris Ryan. Hey, Google, pause podcast. A little help, hands free. Just say, hey, Google to get started. Okay, so here's a hypothetical. Yeah. Do you think you're more or less engaged with the show?

I don't know how you could possibly be more engaged. If it's a love triangle between Karel, Witherspoon, and Aniston, and, like, he's still an anchor, and it's, like, the new girl comes on, and it's, like, the sort of power play for the anchor chairs versus this Frankenstein monster that they have with the Mitch story and dealing with the Lauer fallout and the Me Too stuff. I think that the first version is impossible to do now. It would be really weird if it was like Steve Karell is like a squeaky clean anchor on a morning show.

And we just pretended like Matt Lauer and Charlie Rose and all this stuff never happened. Right. And then also, so when you say love triangle, so we pretend that and then, oh, you don't mean actual love triangle where Reese Wither Spoon like starts gets involved with Steve Crowe. Yeah, I don't even mean that. Because I think you can't do that. No, I mean like in the version in which there is no like Mitch Kessler gets meted. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And is a sexual predator version of that.

Right. Right. But then if he's not a sexual predator, but then he starts a relationship with the other co-anchor, I think that would be a problem. You can't really do that anymore. There's a, if you like the morning show at all, I really recommend you the bold type, which is a TV show that's essentially in partnership with Cosmo, the magazine. And it's about behind the scenes of Cosmo. And it's made for a younger audience. And it's like not made with as much money.

But frankly, I think with better writers. But they, they started before Me Too. And so one of the assistants was dating senior executive. Oh, yeah. And they had to figure out how to just get themselves at. of that pretzel not pretty quickly. And it involved going to HR and disclosing relationships and all the responsible, like really lame stuff. But it's like, it's a problem. You can't have a TV show targeted at women or young women and have them involved in the workplace anymore. So in that

sense, I'm glad that they addressed it. Because it just, it would have felt so outdated also, especially since it's so closely aligned with this book about the Today Show. You just can't get past it. Sure. How do you think they're handling it at them? Not great. You know. Is part of that because they unfortunately have like one of the most famous people in the world like as the as the Mitch Kessler character? No. Like should Kutup be Mitch Kessler?

No, because Kutup has the right amount of sleaze. You don't want everyone, you don't want it to be just like a morality play about me too. That's boring. It's TV. You actually want it to be fun to watch. I think the problem. is that they clearly both don't know what to do with the MISH character and didn't have enough time to, like, reorganize it. And also I think they, like, and I understandably, or I empathize with this, like, feel a little guilty. I think they were very caught off guard. Sure. You can sense that, that they were caught off guard by all of this and, like, don't really know what to do. And so we're kind of doing, like, penance for all the accusations and issues associated with the Today Show in real time. Yeah. Well, I mean. They're like, We don't want to be glamorizing a place.

When Alex is being like, I didn't know. Yes. You can kind of feel other people being like, oops. So I feel for them, but they clearly don't know what to do. And so they just put Steve Carell in a room yelling morality clause like 18 times. Like he's lit. It's like a tone poem like morality clause. And beating up his dumb and getting dumped so that he's all alone.

Yeah. Yeah. And so I think that's weird. I admire Corell for staying on the show. And I think. if they can get to a place at the end where they are talking with a little bit more nuance and specificity about what to do with a guy like that, you know, I would be interesting to see someone do that well. I don't know that they're there yet. What do you think of recent Anderson's chemistry compared to the chemistry she had with some of her co-stars on Big Little Lies?

Well, I liked it when they were yelling at each other. Yeah. The thing is, is like, throughout three episodes, you don't really have a sense of their chemistry until the very end. No, if anything, I think it's, you see Alex ducking Bradley a couple of, like, she's clearly orchestrating this, but is, her character is constantly, like, I have to leave now. Right. You know, and go do something else or go back to my apartment or I'm having a panic attack or I have to put my white sneakers on. You know, Reese brings out the frenziness and, like, the comedy in Anniston a little bit, which is actually great because she's one of the, of the great comedic actresses of our time. I don't know if you remember Reese's guest stint on Friends. Do you remember that? She played Rachel's little sister. No, she didn't. Yes, she did. And she's

really funny. And she's doing kind of like insane Tracy Flick. Is it super, and she like goes after. After election? When is she? Yeah, I think it's 2000, which I guess is after election. And Yeah, because 99's election. Yeah. And she plays her little sister and she like goes after Ross. and it's basically like she's single white femaleing her own sister, but it's all played for laughs, and it's very funny. So they have great chemistry. Or they have it in that Friends episode. And I think even like this scene where Jennifer Anderson is just kind of like,

of course you want this job. They're like in the studio and kind of facing off. And some of those ones like, I don't want to be used. And Jennifer Anderson's like, you're fine. Go to bed at 4 o'clock. I'm sure you'll figure it out. And just kind of, and is being a little bit funnier. I like that because, like I said, I think the show needs to be slightly less serious about itself.

Yeah, I think that that is the thing that probably impacted it the most. And we can do like, like, oh, what would have happened? What would have the dynamics of the show? What would have straight up the story have been if the, if Me Too hadn't happened? And now it's impossible to conceive of pop culture without Me Too happening. So it doesn't really matter. But I think it's the seriousness of it. Like the kind of like solemnity of it is what is impacted the most by it.

Yeah. Yeah. What other closing thoughts do you have on the first three episodes? This won't be the last time you get to talk about it on this show. Crut up, just national treasure, really iconic stuff. Chaos is the new cocaine. Do you think he wrote that for himself or you think they wrote it for him? Oh, I mean, I think given it's like the episode title, I think they were like,

we got something here. But it's so funny that it's like, it's just chaos is a ladder, but it's like, what if Littlefinger was like super hot? I love his character. I really, really, like, I know that they shot a lot of the interiors in Los Angeles, and I'm sure. But you can kind of see how much money they're spending. I don't think they spent a ton of money on the morning show set. No.

Also, speaking of this scene where he takes Reese Wuthersbun to Barneys, that is, in fact, the Beverly Hills Barneys. Is it? Yes. Also used in. Is that still with us? I don't actually think so, because I think they're all closed. Yeah. But that, yeah, that's in L.A.

I really enjoyed that scene. Yeah. I thought. You know what it is? I've been watching this with my wife, Phoebe. And a scene will start. And she'll be like, oh my God, this is such like, this is right out of pretty woman. And then they say, like, we know this is right out of pretty woman.

Yeah. It's kind of like every time it's a cliche, they say we know, but we're still going to do it because those cliches are actually very satisfying. Yes. Trying on clothes is fun. And also, I think that happens more and more as the show goes on. And I'm kind of like, oh, they're figuring it out. Yeah.

Like that scene is pretty funny. And those two clearly have chemistry. I don't know what happened. I know what I want to happen. I don't know whether it'll be appropriate. Me Too, Eyes, but whatever. But maybe that's some tension. And it's, like, funny and watchable,

even though somehow sandwich in the middle, there is a speech about Billy Crudup's mom being an organizer. And also her name is Martha, which I can't believe I know this, but isn't Martha like the Superman's mom's name, who they just yell like, Martha, when everything goes bad in those comics. Yes. So in terms of this movie, like borrowing

from everything under the sun, there's another one. But they're so good. And it is also like a pretty woman's setup when they have that speech as she's wearing like this immaculate skirt suit. Sure. I'm not the skirt suit, pants suit that I would definitely like to own and she looks great in. And then he says Pantsuit Nation and I wasn't even mad. Which is like that should be, you know, like when we're sitting in a movie theater

and it's like I've never been more excited about a movie Sean Finishing the Ringer. Yeah. Your quote should be Pantsuit Nation and I wasn't even mad. That's like, that's the tagline. I'm not accepting any money from them. I'm really not. But I have, I do feel like I've been evangelizing for this show enough that I'm like wondering,

but not in nice ways. So I don't know what they could do. I want them to be like fun. I like that you're doing this though because I think that it's too easy to be like this is bad. Yeah, it's lazy. And it's like, I think it's good. in a way that's just not very common, but it's also bad in a way that's

very entertaining. Yes. I just think it prioritizes different types of things in television. And that's what I respond to in it. And that's what I kind of think all TV, but certainly prestige TV, has not been serving me enough of, which is, like, expensive, kind of flashy shows

about women that are self-aware, at least, of their references and know to make the pretty woman stuff. Yeah. And are aimed at smart people, even if they don't totally get there. Sure. Who understand soap opera is just another word for like plot about people instead of people being killed.

Right. And understand that people want that as well. And understand that people just want to watch stars sometimes, like hanging out. And I just, a lot of TV does not really invest in that anymore or on those types of things. And they definitely did not spare any expenses on the alcohol budget. They really did. So I... Bradley Jackson, I'm going to have a double bourbon

before I go on... Well, she's from West Virginia. Yeah, that's right. So I think that it is actually... I mean, not all shows do that, and I think the fact that people are responding to that tells you something. And I think the fact that also, like, a lot of people were dismissive of that

also tells you something about, like, what is quote valued in TV right now and how we talk about TV and that they're major blind spots. It is all of that and is also just like a fascinating mismatch of of tones and skills sometime. And it's really fun. It's fun to watch both because of what it is and what it isn't. I feel like the fact that it's on Apple and the fact that we are like almost like, I mean,

we would have been compelled to talk about it anyway given the star power in it, but because it comes along with this huge foray into content by a tech giant, there's all this interest around it. It's hilarious that like it's not totally obvious how to watch it. I have no idea. Yeah. I actually went to, like, I, like a super old person. I was like, oh, I wonder if it's just like lead if you go to iTunes and it's right,

it's not there. Yeah. Unless that's my iTunes. I don't know, but it was like iTunes was advertising like some British show that I had never heard of. And I was like, where the fuck is the morning show and C and Dickinson? And I, that's obviously through a different Apple TV app. But it's like, it's so interesting that even the launch of this show, which is itself,

like so many different cooks in the kitchen is part of a, service that nobody really seems to understand quite how to use yet. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And that you get for free if you bought a phone recently or if you're a student and have an Apple music account. I have no idea if I qualify. Sean, on the big picture earlier this week asked me, like, do you consider this launch a success? And I'm curious whether you do. Um, I think it's totally bubbled with it. Yeah. It's like I consider it a success in the sense that I've been thinking about it a lot. I didn't see personally like the morning show trending or, Like I made a morning show meme joke

And it was really good Thank you very much Yeah But it was a pretty obscure Drake reference With Mark Duplas photo But But I cracked triple digit

Likes I think just off the Off the like enthusiasm I put behind it But I wasn't seeing a ton of like Bradley Jackson jokes Yeah Were you?

Well again It's a group chat show right Like you're getting like a lot of texts About it So thank you to the people At Apple TV who sent out screeners for the whole season last week because I was very worried about having to wait. And within that

email going out, within 10 minutes of that email going out, I heard from four of the people who mean most to me in my life. I heard from you. I heard from Julietette Lipman. I heard from Willa Paskin, my friend, and I heard from my husband. Everyone was just like, congratulations. We did it. Yeah. So I feel that I am part of a niche community that is like, it means more to me personally than pretty much anything else in the pop cultural sphere. Does that mean that anyone else, like, knows how to watch this show? I have no idea. Did most people spend four bucks on the, whatever it is to get, you know, like five bucks on the service, watch the first episode and we're like, oh, that seemed really bad. I'm not going to watch any more of these.

I don't know. I do think from the people who actually like sought it out, because again, it didn't get great reviews. So the first wave was like, oh, okay, well, you don't need to. I'm hearing from people who sought it out and are like, actually, I like this. And I think there is a thing of the people who actually do you want to go to the trouble of spending $5. It's going to, that might continue to happen. I don't know whether that's good for Apple, though. I just think it's great for me. I mean, I think the thing with Apple is it doesn't matter if it's good for Apple or not. All right. Amanda, thank you so much for joining me to talk about these first three episodes. We'll definitely have you on talk about the second act.

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