The Watch - Breaking Down 'True Detective: Night Country,' Episode 2

Episode Date: January 22, 2024

Chris and Andy discuss the second episode of 'True Detective: Night Country.' They talk about some of the callbacks to 'True Detective' Season 1 in this episode (1:00), the horror and paranormal elements that are becoming more prominent this season so far (17:49), and the way the environment plays a role in the plot (26:12). Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Learn more at brooksrunning.com. I need supports to have to clear the run. Stand up and walk. Now. Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at The Ringer.com. And joining me in the studio, he'll never look at hockey rinks the same way.

It's Andy Greenwald. You could tell me that's a feature of most hockey rinks, and I would be as credulous. Andy, we are here to talk about the second episode of True Detective Night Country. Andy, we did the first one. We had Issa Lopez on that episode. So I recommend if people are kind of catching up, with this pod and with the second episode

that they go back and check out East's interview because I had a great time talking to her. She was so wonderful to chat with about the show, about the influences, about the connection to true detective. And I wanted to start there. I have a little bit of a recap of this episode where I would say the emphasis was on detecting in episode two. A lot of set up for the first episode,

a lot of kind of faint lines drawn between characters and indications that these people have like a complicated past, a complicated history with each other. But, you know, the first episode ends with the discovery of this kind of structure of dead bodies in the frozen tundrum. It's a beautiful modernist installation. A little bossy. And I don't mean Detective Harry Bosch.

I mean Heronimois Bosch. You mean Chris Bosch, former NBA champion. But, you know, we fully get into the investigation in the second episode. We dive right in. I'm just thinking about Amazon debuting Bosch legacy, but it's about Hieronymus Bosch on Freebie. What if I painted this guy? looking in between his own legs. He's a devil, isn't he?

What was I going to say? I ruined you. I'm sorry. No, it's okay. Would you like me to kind of go through? Let me go through the episode, okay? Let me go through the episode just to kind of set the scene here. So we kind of open up. Danvers is there and she's kind of going back and forth.

She sees all these bodies. The cops are all out there. They're establishing the crime scene. Quite unprofessionally, I might end. Getting the sense that maybe the NIS guys are not the best at their jobs. You know, maybe a little bit, you know, they're taking selfies. they're about to chainsaw up these things. And Danvers is really the only person there besides Navarro maybe,

who's on the outside looking in. Who knows what she's doing? Although she does have a good protege in Peter, who's the younger cop, who's the son of Hank. There's a little bit of debate about whether this is going to be kicked up to like a kind of state-level investigation to Anchorage. But Danvers really seems to want to keep this case for whatever reasons. Navarro is making it clear that she thinks the death of these scientists

is connected to her kind of white whale of a case, which is the murder of a woman named Annie Kotak, I think. And she was a native woman who had been protesting against mining operation in the area. Danvers kind of starts to interrogate what's going on out here at the Solal station. She goes to an old flame. He tells her about how they were working on some pretty serious secret shit

out there that would essentially, like, we could cure all diseases. We could release a bunch of new people. pathogens into the world. Like, there's a lot of... You never know. Yeah, the scales of justice. Once you start core in the permafrost,

that's what they always say. I know. We hear a bit more about Rose's ex-travis, who led Rose to... Postumously. Rose, obviously, is the Fiona Shaw character or kind of, uh, mystical survivalist living out,

like... A log-ish lady, you might say? A logish lady. And she has seen a guy who does not look unlike Bob from Twin Peaks. She's seen this guy, Travis. She follows him out into the frozen tundra, finds the bodies in the first place.

We learn a little bit about this guy. First of all, that he's dead. Yeah, second, he's super chill. And third of all, his last name is Cole. So for sports fans, Rust Cole is the name of the Matthew McConaughey character and the first season of True Detective. In this analogy, I'm not a sports fan.

I did not pick that up. I do believe that he makes reference at some point to a father somewhere in Alaska. No. I think so. I love this for you. And Travis was dying of leukemia. They spent Rosen, he spent one last night together. He passes away.

You want to talk about that night? That was rich in detail. Yes. Well, I mean, there's a lot of things going on. They played some records. They smoked some dubage. Had a little sex. That's honestly, can I just have like a little bit of a sidebar? I want to only do sidebar. My platonic ideal of what dupage would do. And they just, they fucked.

that up. They just put too much stuff into Dubbage. When it was Boston dirtweed back in the day in the 90s, you could get away with that. And now it's like, I have to be part of like the galaxy because I took like the wrong edible. So you mean that the wheat, first of all, I'm sure there's just

like a rich pipeline of the finest California gold up there in the night country. So she's basically scraping together some like supermarket oregano and the outside of like some Philly Blunts. and rolling it together. But you're saying this is better because when you smoke this,

despite... I'm saying her version of it, which is like smoke a J, listen to some Joan Baez, have sex with a ghost. If he's alive then. Yeah, you know what I mean, though. Do you call people near death ghosts?

Pre-ghosts? I'm just saying that's like, that's a more acceptable version of getting stolen to me than what... Than what's going on now. I would also say, though, you may be bearing the lead

about the efficacy of this weed because my guy, Russ's dad, or whatever, has, he is an end-stage cancer patient. Yes, looking at. And yet, when he just smokes just like a little bit of this weed, he looks like he's performing, no, starring in like regional theater version of hair. Like, he is just having the best afternoon of his life. Look, that's what NorCal gave us with their wonderful crop.

It's beautiful. We've basically learned, though, through these conversations with Rose that, ghosts are real in this world. We have to accept that as like a sort of reality that people see the dead out there in the in the night. We also get a little bit of, this was not so present to me in the first episode, but this idea that, oh, we're tipping more supernatural than even I had expected. This idea that Ennis is like a portal. Like Ennis is a place where a lot of people see ghosts. Yes. And is it the supernatural or is it perception? You know, like where was the town built on a pet cemetery? of all those fucking reindeer. The most important thing that Rose does share with us, though, is pointing out that one of the scientists had a spiral on their forehead.

This spiral is also something that Navarro recognizes as being something that was on Annie's back. Yes, she had a tattoo. This spiral is the same pictogram that has turned up in especially True Detective Season 1 as a kind of symbol of Carcosa, as a symbol of this. I don't know, cultish underworld that is the sort of skeletal structure of the true detective seasons for the most part, to varying degrees over the course

of the three seasons before Issa Lopez told her story. And we're going to circle back to that. I want to ask you some questions about that. So Navarro starts reinvestigating the Annie case, asking Annie's brother and a minor if they had ever seen her with one of the scientists. And

meanwhile, Peter, the young sort of cop and Danvers, played by Jody Foster, start asking questions. This is where the detecting comes in. And I thought this is my favorite scene of the episode is them hanging out at this ice rink where they have moved the mass of bodies because it has to thaw at a very specific temperature and over a course of... You don't have to tell me. This is me every day at five when I get the girls home and they're like, what are we having for dinner? And I'm like, shit. And I tried to change the properties of heat and the application of it and I try to make it work.

We get like a little salmon in a pot of water or whatever, like to just, Well, salmon defrost pretty quickly. It's like when you're like, oh, these bone-in chicken thighs, they'll just be real crystally on the inside when you bite down. There's this cool sort of rhetorical device that starts coming up, and it's basically about like asking the right questions. I love this. Love this scene.

They are going through all the pictures. It's a great piece of exposition because they're essentially like talking through all the different permutations of what could have happened to these scientists. And I also just want to jump in. We'll say more about this, but like, for an episode, that indicated Issa's desire to explore the supernatural aspect of both this story and maybe the franchise as a whole, I love the bedrock recitation of the detecting. And when you're doing a detective story, explain the art of each detective because they are all different.

And you and I are endlessly interested in the ways that detecting gets accomplished. Yeah. This thing of like you're asking the wrong, the way to find the answers is to learn to ask the question. Great conceit. And when Peter hits upon the killer, the idea that these guys were not experiencing collective psychosis, when he hits upon the idea of the killer, Jody Foster's line read of the killer is so good.

It's great line read. It's just a Roman candle moment right there. It's awesome. The questions that they're asking, why did these guys run outside and remove their clothes? Why did they self-mutilate? What scared them? Great moment when he's just like, how scared do you have to be to run outside with no clothes on, you know, like that's, or no shoes on or whatever. Do you have an answer for that? I don't really. I mean, we live in such a mild climate. I never have to contemplate that. But you do spend most of your time new. So it's just like it's, it's an ever present.

Last night, I was going to go to Airwan. Uh, okay. Must be nice, Monopoly Man. And I was like, let me get my parka on. Because I was like, the sun had gone down as I was walking. And I was going to walk. Much like in Enis, the sun. It was my own private Ennis. And then I was like, it's still 61 degrees. I don't need this parka. So you just did the North Face instead? What'd you do?

61. Come on. I just wore a jean jacket. Well, you were walking, right? Yeah. So you got the blood up a little bit. The heart rate went up, yeah. I was in the zone.

I was in zone two. It's chilly out here right now. Love that scene. Danvers and prior, looking to the last couple of days, the scientists, they do this by talking to sort of the support staff that was working around the station, cleaning ladies, delivery men, et cetera.

And we find out... Classic law and order stuff here. Like for as much as we're going to talk about like Issa Lopez likes David Lynch, I think she also likes law and order because those scenes where people would love to talk to you, officer, but I got to restock the vending machine.

Yes, there was a lot of like... I'm not going to stop vacuuming, but I will give you crucial information. We learned that one of the scientists, Clark, sounded particularly distraught in the final days. It's hard to imagine living with a bunch of dudes and a research station for years on end through endless night.

trying to solve death. And watching Ferris Bueller over and over again might drive you a little baddie. Great movie. But Pryor finds out that Clark also had this spiral tattooed on his chest. And had a relationship with Annie. And when he went to get the tattoo, said, give me this and showed a picture of Annie's back. Not just Annie. She's doing the Janet Jackson Rolling Stone cover, basically, with Annie.

Yes. So Danvers and Prior, they do that. And then digging deeper into Solal, this is really important. they're walking down the street and prior turns to Danvers and is like, I've gone into the kind of funding for this station and as an NGO and there's a Shell corporation. But basically when you, I mean, this kid with one computer in Ennis, Alaska gets to the bottom of it. It is funded by a company called Tuttle United. Okay. I don't know if that rang any bells for you.

No bells. Silence in the old brain pan. Tunnel was the name of preacher Billy Tuttle, one of the villains of the first season of True Detail. And Edwin Tuttle is the governor, senator, politician of that first season who's sort of like looming over like why Rust can't get everything he needs for the case. And there's like this political resistance for him. It's a thing. Then they are essentially like there is a operating theory that the Tuttle's were the. Oh, I remember now. That there was a cult that basically worshipped the yellow king and believed in child sacrifice.

Okay. Okay. So it's more than okay. It's a pretty big deal For as big as a deal As the spiral is Connecting these two seasons With the tunnels

Is pretty huge for your boy Okay We're gonna get into this And in some non-murder developments Just worth mentioning Liz is hooking up with Christopher Eccleston Who is like her boss basically And Frank

Hank is mad at Peter for stealing files And he's still obviously getting catfished By an Eastern European Well well well no I'm gonna push back in some of this Getting mad at punching his son in the face Slap. He slapped him.

Okay. First of all, your ward is being taken back by the state. You've just disqualified yourself from future adoption. Second, Danvers' daughter is like your father is an animal, which suggests that this isn't the first, what did you say, tapped him on the face? He slaps him. Uh-huh. Slaps him. Okay. Suggested it has happened before. Yeah. Two, I call me a sap. I believe in the possibility of internet love

with unfaced people from Flot of Ostock. Right. Who are like, but my mom needs an operation. I love this subplot. Maybe more than most things in the show. I feel like John Hawks' character seems pretty fucking evil, so I'm a little bit nervous about like what happens next with this. You don't think we can just joke around about them?

No, I mean, I'm just saying like he seemed to have that antifile dug away and was pretty mad that it got taken. that's true. He had it with his personal his personal effects. His personal belongings. So those are some non-murder developments. Great to see Christopher Eccleston in the mix. Playing this sort of state police or

police lieutenant. And then we kind of wrap up the episode with Navarro finding out by interrogating a minor that she thought this minor seemed to recognize the picture of Clark. She goes back to this guy's house. He's like, I don't like you. It's also not a house. It's like his dorm?

His dorm, yeah. And he tells her about his brother sold this guy a trailer a while ago. Yeah. And one thing leads to another, Navarro finds the trailer with Danvers. They go in. And it is fucking the Carcosa gift shop up in there with all the statuettes and stick figures and drawings and pictograms and spirals. And it is just like, we're back in it, man. Did you think it was too on the nose that when Navarro finds the trailer and wipes the snow off the front of it, the brand of the trailer is crime scene?

Did you feel like that was maybe pushing it? So we get, that's it. That's where we arrive. We find out that pretty definitively the Annie murder and the Solal scene is connected. We've already had the tongue. We've already, I believe it's been established that that's Annie's tongue, right? It's been established that the tongue has. has been settled.

So there's a tongue in Solal station that belongs to Annie. These Clark and Annie both had the same spiral tattoos. They seem to be in a relationship living out of this trailer, or at least meeting in this trailer, where they were conjuring some serious psychospiritual shit on the walls and in their arts and crafts. Which is rare because it's established that these Salal guys don't really hang with the townies. No.

And then, yeah. And then the assumption at the end of episode. is that Clark's not in the ice. And the Clark is not in the ice that they've only got five. Where's Clark? It is melted enough now that they can tell

that they only have five bodies, right? Now, you did skip the part at the beginning where one of the bodies is like, I'm cold. Was that you when you went outside without your parker last night? That's me when I do

my cold plunge challenges on Instagram every morning. As I said, do you in a text this week, I don't need to do a cold plunge. just listened to Ben and Sheel on the Philly special after the debacle on Monday, and that had the same effect on my body and heart.

So that's True Detective episode two. I very much enjoyed it. But I am the target audience. Well, let's start here, because I do want to, I really enjoyed this episode, and I am not the target audience. So we were in a safe space here. Okay, good. I did not pick up on any of the connections

other than the kind of vague, otherworldly supernatural-e stuff. I should also say, I was meant to say this at the beginning, Rob and Joe are also recapping True Detective and diving very deep on it. I think that goes up on Tuesdays on Prestige TV. So at some point, I feel like we need to have a union

of Tuttle United here to talk about all the theories. But I want to let it play out a little bit. We'll do that when the Stadies from Anchorage show up, and it's J. Velcro. Just here to investigate, because that's my true detective. I know it is. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action. all the way to the finals with Fandul Predicts.

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limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu, chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sales signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring, save at Whole Foods Market. Okay, I want to talk about the specifics of the show as the show, but I think because of the prologue, we got to go here first. So here, let me, let me ask you something. So you're like, do you want to talk about night country or do you want to talk about true detective? Exactly. And I have not, this will become as a shock to no one. I have not revisited

the larger True Detective project ever. Okay. Any of the episodes since their respective seasons aired, although I did, despite some beliefs of the contrary, watch every episode of True Detective that ever aired. Did you watch the second season? Did I watch it? Oh, yeah, right.

And you watched all the third season? Yes. Okay, cool. We did podcasts about them. Did we? I did one with Clive Owen. Okay. But you were away that week.

So my memory, particularly of the first season, and I do think that some of my hostility towards that season, and stemmed from this fairly or unfairly, knowing my emotional reaction to things like the Barbie trailer, perhaps unfairly, was that when the show is airing, and it was a big sensation and people were excited about it, a lot of the excitement and a lot of the chatter was about what we're kind of starting to get into here,

which was kind of like peak Redditor, what does this mean? Is this actually about Sathulu and Lovecraftian horror? And what are the connections that go deeper than just cops investigating a murder thing. And then my memory of the show was that ultimately, it seemed that Nick Pizzolato, the creator and writer of Tree Detective, was not really that interested in those things, that those things were, let me phrase this more delicately.

Not more interested, but that is not where his, that was not the engine of what was driving his show. Those were, it's not fair to say window dressing, but those were just like extra texture to what was at its heart a crime story about detectives told in different time periods. And I felt that it was a little bit of writing a check that the show didn't cash, of being like, oh, we're also doing Twin Peak stuff

about weirdos making flowers, but really it's this. Right. And it was a little bit, again, this is my, I was critical, which felt a little bit bait and switchy. And that as the show progressed from season two to season three, this is what happens with long-form storytelling or TV storytelling by one creator, the creator reveals him or herself

and what interests them and ultimately it was more about men being bummed out about shit over periods of time. I'm being glibed. But the supernatural stuff fell away. Is that a fair reading

of particularly the first season in your mind? I just think it didn't fall away. It was just not definitively answered. Okay. So I think the show became more about whether or not Rust could be saved,

despite being somebody who looked at the world in a particular way that would make living hard, you know, and that he is able to sort of be a special kind of investigator because of his intuition and because of his perception of human behavior and because of his kind of ability to map like crime writ large

and his willingness to go to the depths of human experience to get justice or the answers or whatever you want to say. truth. And that's a through line of the show even reflect in the title. And that's even what we're seeing with Danvers, that there are people who are so gifted at this, but at what cost, right? But this is a guy in the first season who goes undercover

as a meth addict biker gang guy to get like one piece of a clue of... At a certain point, you kind of want to be a meth addict. Well, yeah, but I think that the idea that like all the sort of subtextual or

alluded to elements of like Carcosa, the Yellow King, and the connections to Lovecraft and all this stuff that was in it, I think that that wasn't necessarily pits a lot of fall. I think that that became crack for the audience because it was something for us to do in the six days between true detective airing. So he very wisely put it in there just the same way Lindeloff put stuff in loss that didn't necessarily match the biblical illusions that were maybe made by character names

or something like that. And I fucking love lost. I'm not saying that. No, no. I think this is also a really good, an important point to make because TV has changed so profoundly in the last 10 years

that what you're describing was that incredible time-specific alchemy of what prestige TV was, which was, and the way we used to talk about it, the way we used to cover it, which was the creators put something into the world on Sunday,

like my OG creator. Yeah. The big man upstairs, Casey Blois. and then we, the audience, carried it aloft during the week until the next airing. And that that was a kind of a symbiotic relationship where our engagement and our theorizing were almost on equal footing with the creator. And we have seen that continue on even with shows that you're like, you don't really have to do that with this, like Succession or White Lotus. Also, but we're not all, maybe those shows are the lone exceptions.

We're not always all watching the same thing anymore. It doesn't feel as charged or even as celebratory. So I think that's a fair point. I think it's interesting, and I'm curious your thoughts on it now through two episodes, that what Issa Lopez is interested in in the original text is so much of this, you know, because this is, I don't even mean to say this like concern trolling, I'm just genuinely interested. Is this fully fleshing out something that was only hinted at,

or that she's more interested in than even the creator of these tropes and images was? or is this going to end up, this is the concern trolling part, of like a misread of what the text is, like giving the people what they want to a degree that isn't going to support the franchise. Like is it... Look, I think that there's a way in which this story,

this series, not this season, but the series of True Detective. And we can at some point get into the like, is it Nick Pizzolato's story to tell or not? And like the kind of ethical questions around that. I don't really, I mean, all we do is talk about stuff that is a revision or a reimagining of somebody else's work. It's just rare that it happens when the person who authored the original story is like right there being like, I would make a fourth season and they don't, you know? The point my I'm trying to make, though, is you could do this show like X-Files.

Like, you could just basically like push it for a decade and not get to the sort of like, what is Carcosa. Is there actually a decade-spanning cabal of evil? men who perpetrate violence, sexual and otherwise, usually on women and children, and believe in essentially a devil figure that gives them power. It sounds like Q and on, but go on. But that is to say, but I mean, in a lot of ways, it was a precursor to that. And the idea that you could solve the world's evil by coming up with a theory that united all evil acts in that way was sort of what I think the Rust character, especially

and True Detective is trying to do. Here's what I love about the show that I have, I mean this sincerely and unambiguously. I love this as a project. I love the idea, especially if this is what the show is becoming, if there will be more seasons, maybe helmed by different creators,

that there is a baseline understanding of what a true detective is, series is. And underneath a gnarly or extreme or whatever crime that happens often, multiple, you know, across timelines, there is this

foreboding darkness at the edge of town. Yes. That is not always literal and is not to be solved, but is to be respected or feared or engaged with. But, you know, and ultimately I should say that, like, I didn't want the ending of True Detective Season 1 to be like, aha, Beelzebub or Mephisto is there. And that's what was there the whole time.

Like, the idea of men being more evil is always more interesting, but, like, these other things being part of it, too. I'm genuinely compelled by what Issa Lopez is doing here because she is making that subtext more textual than I Well, so to answer your question, I think that there's two layers to it. I have not watched ahead. I don't know whether or not, like, are they going to start to investigate the Tuttle Company and get to the bottom of what's going on there?

Or was that a bone to throw to true sickos? were like, oh, like, will Solal's funders really come into this? I don't know. What I do think is that she obviously, in my conversation with her, was very interested in articulating an evil and a feeling that is hard to articulate. And the spiral is that. The spiral is people in strange places like Louisiana, like Alaska, like Arkansas in the third season. people, not strange places, but just like places that may seem a little bit lost to time, like moved, that time has moved past it or that they are outside of like the everyday workings

of a lot of places where it's dark for 30 days or you might see birds traveling in, in weird patterns in the sky, or there's a strange brothel like way out in the bayou that like looks like it's been, it's a dollhouse or something like that. Like all these things that you're just like, they're very true detective. I think that there's a symbology that she is going to more deeply investigate. I don't know if Travis Cole is literally Russ Cole's father or if the Tuttle Corporation is going to be interrogated. Or if that matters. And frankly, I want to put down my marker here.

It doesn't matter to me. Right. I like the suggestion. I like that I do like that she is aware of potentially as a fan of the series, who is now steering the series, that she is aware of the power of symbols. and names and suggestions, and that that's something that we respond to in stories. And if there's never any other reference to Travis's lineage or background or family or potential offspring,

that's great. That's great with me. I was just really struck in this episode, and it's weird for me to say this after everything that happened in the first episode, including with the menacing animals and the suicidal reindeer and everything. But just the real foregrounding of like, and this was,

I'm going to reference something that was in the first episode, but like dead Travis, you know, gesticulating like Killer Bob from Twin Peaks, like that's, that's canonical, right? Like, we saw that happen on our screen. We didn't just hear, what's her name? Rose did not tell that as a story. That was something that we, the audience, were the experienced. Exactly, exactly.

But I also think that she's doing something. But it's like the delivery man says, you see people, you know? Right. And so like all the, like the kind of, I'm just, I'm just responding to it. Like, I'm responding to this, like, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, Kyle keeps getting pushed up. It's not just that Rose has seen this. It's that then the delivery guy is just like,

well, you know, we're here on the borderline of like night and day and living in the dead. And Rose says that. And then he's like, we all see ghosts, right? Oh, okay. That's what the show is in a way that is not what I expected. But I don't mind it. And I also am for someone who generally is allergic to theorizing. I just want to see what she's,

I'm going to take what's being given to me. I am intrigued by the fundamental conceit of the show as it's emerging that these scientists are trying to solve death. Yeah. And that Clark maybe was trying to solve the death of a woman that he loved and maybe she came awake or something. It definitely pushes my perception of what the show could be into a different place because,

coming off of the first three seasons, I was preparing to have a show that was sprinkled lightly with some supernatural bullion, but was fundamentally going to be, there was going to be a concrete, tangible answer. Yes, and there may very well be, if I had to guess,

this will be a series, a season told in three acts with the first two episodes, obviously setting everything up, but we'll never feel as free and suspended in error to make a hundred different guesses, and then things will start to narrow,

there will be twists, and then it will probably be something relatively conventional, I'm just guessing. But the thing that I kept going back to in this episode, because over the course of the first two, I feel like they've, Issa's been like very clear about her interests in this is the environmental piece.

Mm-hmm. To quote Bill Simmons. You've got this mine that is... Can we do body language doctor next? Because I've got some thoughts. The mine that is in town is clearly like the economic engine of the town, but also the environmental death of the town. Yeah.

There's been allusions to drinking water problems of people getting sick. The miner whose brother died was bone cancer. He's like this fucking town. Like there's this illusion that there's like somehow this town is poisoning people. Then you've got the Solal station that is essentially, like you said, punching a fucking hole in the earth and hoping for the best. And not engaging with the local community in any way other than come clean our floors and deliver us funions. Yes. To say nothing of the fact that the wildlife,

around town seem to be reacting strangely between the mass suicide of those caribou and the polar bear and, you know, like we, we are just in a very strange place. And, you know, it doesn't take too much of a jump in logic to consider that this show is also about environmental collapse, you know, and that that might actually be the supernatural element that you're talking about. Because, like, what if we fucking, what if we kill the earth? Like, I'm sure very strange things could happen, you know? including me like true detective

this man a couple marginal things I'd like to talk about one of the MVP I should have

the person's name in front of me and I will for our next podcast but the production design on this show

is elite Rose's house is so cool Rose's house the burger place yeah these dorm rooms of the working

men like the way that they're lit the way they're decorated the way the cans are stacked I do just

want to say, you mentioned SV, you know, Law & Order earlier, Law & Order Routinely, whenever there is a teenage culprit, they go into the kid's house, and it's just like, he's got like a primus and a helmet poster. It's just like, I think

that bad guys listen to other things besides metal. And they don't all have metal posters on their wall. So you walk into a kid's house, and it's just like, it's like Bell and Sebastian, it's just like, this is suspicious. I'm just saying like that when she walks into the miners' dorm room and it's just like monsters of metal

this guy is trouble he also has tortilla chips so you know takes all kinds well so speaking of tortilla chips when there's the scene of Navarro and her sister shopping in the market

did you have flashbacks to when we used to go to Fire Island and it's like I would like to buy this can of pinto beans and they're like certainly sir thirty dollars that's what happened to me at Airwane well that right so Airwane is just like did you guys move a fucking decimal point

What is talking about? There is no supply chain issues with Arawon. That is by design. But when you go to a place like an island or I guess the end of fucking Alaska, those Oreos are going to creep up on you. I really think that it's intentional too that like there have been a number of shots of people's homes where cabinets have been opened and we've seen the depths of their like chili collection. I'm like, there's thought behind this.

I really like that. Do you think that my new thing should be making live videos outside of Arawan begging Joe Biden to do something about the prices of their combo platters? Yes. I think that would go over very well. I think you would find a robust following. I think that maybe if you did that, I think the Hollywood reporter would cover you the way they covered Cheryl Hines. Being like, she's a great actress. Her husband has some really interesting ideas. That's you. That's your demographic. Doesn't get flu shots. No. So let's see up. That's hold on. Now tell me more. That's interesting.

Did you relate to, speaking of things that you related to, clearly there's more than I realized, during the Law and Order montage of investigating when they're talking to the woman who's the cleaner and in the middle of the conversation, she opens the window to like sub-arctic Kansas City Chiefs playoff game weather just to like just a burn one? Yeah, there's two experiences. Did you relate to that? I liked very much smoking in the cold. Because it was it like warm you from the inside with fire? Yeah, but smoking in like deep, dark, fucked up hot ass New York summers used to just just. be like, maybe I should imagine a better life for myself. Did you? Reader? He did not. It took a couple of years to get there. But would you, especially when there was the smoking ban, then you really had to make a choice. Like, I could stay here warm, enjoying my drink with my friends,

or I have to go outside into Hoth. Yes. And there you would go into Hoth. So I think that solves that. Yes. I like some of the, I mean, I continue to think that Jody Foster is uniquely. qualified to play this part. She's awesome. I like the way, and this is also a call back to previous two detectives, that she's prickly in unique ways in different directions in one way to her daughter,

in a different way to Peter, and he is clearly, you know, he's a true believer. He's following her. Yes. I liked that Navarro was using the same rhetorical, investigative technique. Yes, like she taught her well. And has mentioned that she was, I think she was Peter before Peter, and that, like,

You know, obviously there's a, I would suggest borderline sexual tension between Navarro and Danvers or something. Interesting. Well, she definitely seems to know where Navarro keeps all her stuff. Like when she comes over to the house, she's like, did you move where you put canned food? So they have some kind of intimacy. I think they were thinking about how I would be reviewing the cabinets of the show. And they're like, let's show more. Kovik? Kavik is the guy.

Pancake guy? Well, this is what I want to talk about. A lot of people showing up in each other's houses, and I feel like they're really on top of each other in this town. He owns the burger place, which, again, I feel like, seems like actually a pretty chill place to hang out other than the fights. Yeah. It's really funny, though, when they're, like, in there,

and it looks like everybody's, like, getting after it. And they're like, would you like some lunch? Because it's fucking dark. That is a trip. Yeah, when they come out of the coffee shop. Yeah. With their, like, Americanos in the morning. So, well, actually, maybe you're making the best point then.

Because I am still not caught up with the time that it's always night, even though it's right there in the title. Navarro and Kavik, he makes her, I guess he lives above the restaurant, so he makes her pancakes. Yeah. I was going to ask you where you stood on night pancakes. Because then, because he just douses them in syrup. And I'm like, I think it's like 11 o'clock.

I have to tell you that if I found myself in this situation where it was a month of night or however long it is, all bets are off. Oh, just how you were going to live your life? I think that I would start being like, I'm going to try and get like five to seven hours of sleep a day or whatever. But when that happens is up to me. I think you would love that. And if it's Budweiser and pancakes at 4.30 p.m., quote unquote, so be it. What's your job in this scenario?

Like, Bill's like, quick, we got to do an emergency pot and you're just full of bisquick. I drive the Zamboony at the ice rink. You have a couple days off then. That's going to be quite a cleanup when that shit melts. We didn't talk about that, that the manager of the ice rink is... The owner? The owner-manager. Yeah, she doesn't like Danvers.

No. Because Danvers, look. Danvers spreads it around. Yes. And I guess slept with her husband, but they both love this town. Don't knock her promiscuity. I mean, I think she's just expressing herself. She loves the Vikings.

She loves fantasy football. She needs to find happiness where she can get it. married guys. If you love what you do, you never work a day in your life. That's right. I just mean, I thought, when a show is just like consistently like, this town is hell, we are digging into the core of the earth and poisoning people with darkness from within. And also, we all see ghosts who want us to join them on the other side.

And then the one woman is like the civic booster from Eagleton on Parks and Rack. And she's like, you fucked my husband. I have a thriving ice hockey business. But I love this town so much. Please melt your corpses. on center ice. Did you think, I don't know if this is another Parks and Rec reference,

but I don't know if you... Like how stimulated you are by this television show? It's fun talking about TV shows. We should do a podcast. The episode, maybe one of the all-time funniest Sparks and Rex when Leslie does her campaign kickoff, but they forget that the ice rink,

they didn't like defrost the ice rink, and they don't have enough carpet to get there. And the music's like, get on your feet. And then it just keeps play, and they keep slipping. Did you call back to that scene

when there's the the Bosch canvas? I didn't. Did you ask Issa Lopez if the actors who played the crew in the station? Also did that?

I think that that seems like it's very John Carpenter the thing. But was that their day rate to be like, I'm naked and in pain for like, like okay, hold the work

and action. You don't think that was really them? I don't think it was really them. I think that was AI. So, Do you have, give me one thing that you're like, I got my eye on you for next week? Because I'm thinking Hank.

I think Hank has got a mean streak. Seems like he's got senioritis. He's waiting for this lady to show up. I have some bad news for him. I don't think that's going to happen. Well, I think there's two, part of the pleasure of this is that there's a certain way that. Also, imagine for her if she is a real woman

and she shows up and this is what's happening. Like, there's a giant structure of dead bodies melting at an ice rink. You don't think this happens on the reg where she's coming from. That's true. This is Tuesday. Yeah. Yeah, like part of the pleasure of this is watching stories unfold in ways unexpected and expected. And it's the guardrail of going down into the depths is that some things are going to go as you think they are. One of them is in a story like this.

Yeah, someone who you've already met is going to have another card to turn being told that he's this guy who seems quite, affable in the premiere is one to strike his son. You and I differ about the... Strike his son and slow roll police investigations. Seems like he's like... On the Annie one. Yeah. Right.

And that he's an animal. But even with the Salah guys, he seems to be kind of got a thumb up his ass. I think he's just waiting for his lady. Okay. All right. Well, you know, you're over there just eating pancakes. Maybe he just wants love to get through it.

I'm interested in... It's been... It was explored a little bit with some flashbacks and some great de-age. stuff. What's going on with Jody Foster's backstory, right? Yeah, because the relationship with her daughter, who I can't tell if that's, my

assumption from the first episode was that this was her husband's daughter. Yes. From the daughter said something to her along those lines. Like, you don't have to be my mom anymore. Well, she also seems to have hostility towards her daughter adopting her indigenous cultural rights.

You know, there's a lot of tattoos stuff going on in this episode. The tattoos that I believe her name's Leah, is that the Lee is the daughter. Lee is the daughter. And then also, obviously, with Annie and with Clark. So you and I have different opinions. We fall on different sides of the tattoo divide.

Because of Jewish cemeteries? Well, partially. Bariol rates? But more that you have them. Is that why you don't have a tattoo, though? No. Okay. I'm very indecisive.

There's not a single thing that I could think that I would want forever on my body other than the log line of Madam Webb, which I think is something that, you know, still has a lot to teach us. That's a deep cut. people if they didn't listen. Kaya told me, by the way, the other day that people listen to the whole podcast all the way through every episode. Looking back, you were not on that text.

Sometimes she just keeps... She plays a different role in both of our lives. She's very supportive. Of you? Of me? Yeah. And I think maybe she plays bad cop with you a little more. Yeah.

Kaya and I have a very hostile relationship. Because you need that. Anything else you want to hit on this? My one criticism? Sure. there's a lot of needle drops. There's a lot of music. You know what?

I hear you and I agree with you. It's a contemporary television problem. It's not a true detective. This is a great point. It is only a true detective problem. And it's not that much better in the films and movies. That's very true. That was my continuing.

I'm still incredulous about the music in air. But it's nonstop. It's wall to wall. You're right. It is a contemporary problem. Maybe I'm noticing it particularly because HBO just just, I don't know if Zazelav was aware of this show, but like

flashes cash all the time. And like they, you know, they're playing Twist and Shout a lot. Yes. That's not a John and Paul original. No, it's a Matthew Broderick version. Their version, which I'm going to go on a limb. I don't think Matthew Broderick sang that.

I don't think that was him. But like, they're spending a lot. And so the songs are really, really noticeable. You know what I want to hear more of? The sound of night country. Yeah. Should be like, should we do? like an ASMR segment?

Yeah, it's a people being like, it's really cool. What does night country sound like? Burr. And they're just sloshing maple syrup on everything. Hey, guys. Yeah.

Hey, that's just snow. And there are six bodies in the snow. That's tough. Actually, only five. Do you guys like reindeer? Yeah. Don't follow them. I have some cool tattoo ideas.

Oh, yeah. We were produced by Kai on the Fallen today. Are we done? Are we going out like this? Yeah, why not? I'm just imagining walking into a tattoo shop in L.A. With a picture of us wearing t-shirts from 2003 where I'm like, give me the one on his arm,

but over my heart. Thanks to Kai for producing us. Thanks to HBO for Making True Detective Night Country, something for us to chat about on Sundays. We'll be back on Thursday where we're going to be discussing the finales for Fargo and the curse, as well as a sort of broader conversation about the state of TV, as is our want.

It is our want. do that. Talk to you guys soon. Happy Sunday Branskies.