The Watch - Emmy Predictions, Netflix Is Adapting ‘Lonesome Dove,’ and ‘The Paper’ Season 2

Episode Date: September 10, 2026

Chris and Andy talk about Netflix’s announcement of a new ‘Lonesome Dove’ adaptation from ‘East of Eden’ showrunners Zoe Kazan and Jeb Stuart (2:05). Then they preview the Emmys by predicting which shows (and actors) will win the major categories (32:40). Later, they discuss the Season 2 premiere of ‘The Paper’ (53:57). Finally, The Watch: After Dark (01:07:06). Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of The Watch and so much more! Follow us on IG and TikTok! Hosts: Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald Producers: Kaya McMullen and Kai Grady Studio Production: Sarah Reddy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The hit original series is back on Paramount Plus. We are the Harrogans. Don't know the net? And Google us. From the underworld of Guy Ritchie. Do you want to step up the ladder? I want combat dead. Starring Tom Hardy, Pierce Brosnan, and Helen Mirren.

Do I have to do everything myself? You want to want? I'll give you a more. That new season hits September 18th on Paramount Plus. I need sports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now. Hello, and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan.

I am an editor for the ringer.com and joining me in the studio, the chief TV critic for the Hat Creek Cattle Company. It's Andy Greenwald. You know, some companies still really prioritize the written word. Look, you know what I mean? It's like First Amendment still counts down there. Greenwald, great to see you today on the show. Some lonesome dove is fucking.

back news. The Emmys are almost here. We're going to play a little bit of Will Win won't win or Will Win should win, I should say. The paper has come back for its second season we discuss and maybe a little bit of Watch After Dark.

I think a lot of Watch After Dark. It might be a lopsided show today. Settled out. Great to see you, man. The Watch at Spotify.com if you want to reach out. The Watchpod underscore, if you want to watch us in short form video. The video of the

entire show can be found on YouTube at the ringer dash TV channel as well as on Spotify where you can listen to us as well as other podcast where can people find the metadata and like the that's the live feed is that iraqgoals.net or is there a different i actually got when i said that i've been talking about my affection for a i believe long lost a legal streaming piracy platform called iraqgoals dot net it's one of my favorite bits and it's where real ones used to watch like La Liga games Real illegal ones Yeah

Now it is the subject of Lianna's Season 4 Joe is going to redact me And take me to Gitmo for watching Valencia versus There is a knock list for people who illegally streamed El Classico in 2003 Yeah

And Kyle is just going to kick my door down Yeah Like you have no rights And I don't You know I have to pay for what I did to society. But it's awesome to see you. And if there's a lightness to the air,

it's just because we got good news this week. You know, like, there's not a lot of good news. Yeah, what's the... The good news is that Lonesome Dove is going to be made into a miniseries by the Netflix Corporation by Zoe Kazan and her writing partner

and producing partner Jeb Stewart. And I'm so excited to talk to you about this. I didn't know you... Actually, I don't even know, like... I didn't know you were going to frame this as good news. I'm not saying it's bad news. I don't think it's bad news to have a cool new

in some Dove miniseries. I think it, yes. I think I don't want to start with the Zag. Let's start with the Zag. Let's start with the Zag. Because a minute ago, you're like, what are you doing? Why are you on your computer? How do you spell tiptoe?

Is that with a hyphen? And then sometimes I'm getting a vibe that you have become what I was during COVID when we would record on Zoom and like you'd talk for five minutes uninterrupted and I would read Twitter. And that's okay. That's definitely something that only happened during COVID. That has never happened since we rejoined. I have a rat goals.net on. And Blue Sky, where you are just getting them.

No, I just couldn't tell what you were doing with your computer. Here's the thing that some people don't. Let's pull back the curtain briefly. I know you want to. You work really hard for this podcast and everyone in this room, who also worked really hard, appreciate it. You have a rundown, you have a run of play. You plan. And part of the fun, fun, I think, is that I'm not often shared into that.

I'm not read into that. Now, do I complain about it? No. No, I get the impression that you're like, thanks for doing this. I thank you. But you wouldn't look at it any earlier than you would when you arrived to the studio. So when we sat down and everybody took their places and the cameras turned on, I just sort of briefly peruse Hollywood reporter and deadline just to see if I missed anything and to slightly prepare for what you're going to hit me with. So I thought maybe I want to start with Lonesome Dove 2, which was on deadline a day or two ago.

Well, this has been a strange week, right? There was a story on a site called Not Boring.co that talked about everyone is reading Lonesome Dove, which I feel like has been a pretty consistent trend for the last couple of years. Decades, but yes, especially recently. The person who wrote the piece was nice enough to give us some credit for starting a wave. I know Gia Tolentino wrote a long piece about it in New Yorker. I mean, I think Lonesome Dove has been... There's a new edition with an introduction by, I believe, Kyle from Lioness.

I'm sorry, his alter ego, Taylor Sheridan. And you open it up, he's like, if you're reading this book, you have no rights. I'm like, no, damn it. I just lost all my rights. Oh, well. So it's been in the, it's been in the ether. I think we had talked about the baiting war that had been happening where I think the McMurtry, Larry McMurtry, the author of Lonesome Dove, obviously one of our favorite writers

and a celebrated screenwriter and novelist over the last. last few decades who passed away a few years ago. 2021. I remember eulogizing him on COVID while you scrolled Twitter. Yeah. I was like, God damn, these are some great takes from Ezra Klein. You know, I hope this guy never leaves this platform. And we talked about the bake sale that happened for the Rites to, for the Lonesome Dove series. It's the Tetraology of four novels. Yes.

And a man named Thomas Tull, who used to be a legendary executive, legendary pictures, executive, won the rights from James McMurtry. Larry's son. Larry's son. Musician. And he runs a company called Teton Ridge. And it's, you know, kind of went silent after that for a while. Well, it went silent outside the Hollywood bubble.

There was clamoring for it. Like he basically, it went on the market. Yes. To attach creatives and also to find a streaming home. Which I did not know. I don't think I knew that it was like in the process of finding creatives. And I didn't know that they were as far along as they were. Because shortly after this blog post went up,

kind of saying, like, people are still reading Once and some Dove, the Summer of Dove never ended. Zoe Kazan and Jeb Stewart are announced as the co-writers and co-showrunners of the series. And Netflix will be the streamer for it, will be the home for it. And not only that, but they've bought into Streets of Laredo, Comanchee Moon, Dead Man Walk, Dead Man's Walk. Dead Man's Walk and Lonesome Doves. So it is the entire Call and McCray epic, which is really exciting.

It is really exciting. I think one of the other, so let's start from, let's do two things. One, reading Lonesome Dove is one of the most pleasurable experiences of my adult life. It is one of the greatest American novels of all time. It is to read it is to not just lose yourself into an incredibly engaging advantage. narrative and a vision of America that is timeless and alluring and horrifying and equal measure. But it also reads you into the Hat Creek Cattle Club of society of people who are also like welcome brother or welcome sister. Like it is it is a wonderfully like communal experience. And I

remember when we were reading it together during COVID and even before we started podcasting about it, we were talking about it and we would get messages from people we know or barely know or like or admire like Elwood read the showrunner. It was like, you have inspired me to read it for a fifth time. Yeah. Like, I can't wait to saddle up again. So the sort of, it's the slow march of this book back into the public consciousness on this level is awesome.

And when we did pot about it, we also talked about the fact that Lonesome Dove is iconic in two mediums. The miniseries on CBS from the 80s with Duval and Tommy Lee Jones is widely considered to be one of if not the best mini series of all time. Crown jewel of it, yeah. And we covered that as well.

And we were really, I think, struck by how incredibly also timeless some of it was, and also how 80s TV some of it was. And to circle all the way around, it's very exciting to think of a project that will be translating Lonesome Dove in totality, meaning that streets of Laredo, which we'll talk about more in a second,

which is really an intense corrective, not just to some of the absences in Lonesome Dove, like Native life, internal lives of women, trains, the existence of trains, which he admits he forgets, about when he wrote Lonesome Dove, but also to the myth-making of the fandom of Lonesome Dove, which he wrote as a tragedy, but was hailed as like a return. It's kind of like a born-in-the-U-A situation where everyone was like,

man, what a great song about being born in the USA. Yeah, and it's like, it's about Vietnam in debt, you know? Yeah. So the idea that they could begin the story, knowing the scope of it, and maybe honoring our friend Larry's fuller intentions for the project is, it's thrilling. I don't really remember the mini-series. what it leaves out that I was like, oh my God. I mean, like the miniseries does a very nice job of hitting a lot of the highlight moments.

There's very little poe campo. That's right. One of my favorite of the chefs. Yes. Of the two cooks. Of the two cooks to accompany them. Top two. It's a great bill list.

Top two lones some dove chefs go. Also chefs. Doing a lot of work there. I agree with you about the book. I was talking with Tyler Parker and, our ranger colleague and wait a second co-host last night about this. And we really, have you ever met anybody that doesn't love this book who read it? You know, like, does anybody read this book and say, nah, not for me?

I don't think so. I think it kind of is, I know this sounds weird, but like, is this what Huckleberry Finn is supposed to be? Is this book like the Great American novel, the Great American journey, the Great American, like, you know, shared experience of, of a dream of a place that doesn't quite crumb true. I think it's like it's kind of emerging as that. Maybe not in universities and maybe not in literary supplements. Right. You know, as my guy Taylor tells me, you can't trust everything you learn at a kind of school.

That's right. The communist infiltration of the schools has not managed to X out this book yet. And speaking of Taylor, you know, you had mentioned him in passing because he did write a forward for or an introduction for the most. recent edition of Wonesome Dove. And he talks about the immense impact it had on his life, very sincerely. In Kim Masters' write-up, so the journalist, Kim Masters, is a really, really well-sourced journalist out here in Hollywood. And she wrote a piece within the structure of Matt Bellanese when I'm hearing

newsletter for Puck. And she talked about the bidding war that just happened. So Zoe Kazan, Jeb Stewart, they have East of Eden coming in October on Netflix. evidently, Netflix is very satisfied with what they did and how they did it. And had a good experience working with that. They announced that they had, they were ready to take meetings about who was going to do this. I believe they have some, some pages, you know, like they have started this process in earnest. You're saying there's a script.

Yeah. And they took meetings like a week ago and it was expected that there was going to be a lot of competition for it. what most people would expect, just given the subject matter and the fact that the original Lonesome Dove miniseries aired on CBS in the first place, that was that Paramount was going to be involved. And they were not. And Kim's piece, I think, I would say, delights in poking fun at the fact that Ellison, David Ellison missed out on this, found out that no one bid on Loansom Dove and tried to come in with like a late inning offer. Yeah.

But Netflix had already sewn up the deal. I do wonder whether or not like, you know, Taylor Sheridan is leaving that Paramount. I thought you were going to say, I do wonder if the Justice Department can break up this deal.

No. Rob Bonta, do your duty. If Mike Pence has the courage, this won't happen. This will be Ken Baxter's big Hail Mary. It was like, we need to bring.

I don't even know the fuck that guy sounds. That was pretty good. I think you should work out. Not making foot of his eye, but I am. I mean, I think it's okay. Yeah. I think Ken Paxton makes fun of a lot of things I believe in. So I think it's a lot of things that you believe.

Yeah, I think some stuff that I think. Don't get aggregated. It sounded like you were saying he makes fun of the things I want to make fun of. No, no, no, no. You were not saying that. He was not saying that. No, I was saying, I bet if Ken Paxton watched this pod, he'd be like, look at this fucking guy in the Oregon hat, you know? So I'm just. You think he would go after you first? Which camera's on? You might be lucky to catch a straight. You know what? CR never misses. I'm just saying if there are only two options

for Ken Paxton? Ken Paxton would he would much rather run against me okay? And I don't blame him. I would not do well running for statewide office in Texas.

Yeah. Okay. From Beto to beta. I mean, can you just see the headlines? Yeah. Come on. Where was I? I was cooking up a imaginary conspiracy theory that this,

one of the reasons why this wouldn't be at Paramount is because Taylor went no longer be at Paramount soon because he's taking his television where as to Universal. This, I cannot imagine he had no interest in making this. And I wonder whether it was like, well, we can't bring Lonesome Dove in and not have him do it. You know what I mean? Like it just seemed to me. I wonder if there's a Taylor shared an element of Paramount not making it a bit in earnest for this.

There's the case for Paramount to make it for legacy reasons and because so much of what we see do think and feel is based on the whims of billionaires. So if David Ellison really loves it, that's good. If David Ellison really dislikes other things, that could be bad. Like freedom of speech, whatever.

Who knows? Cut that for the ad. You guys could cut an incredible attack out on me just from the first 10 minutes of this pod. It's okay, man. I don't need your endorsement. Let me turn around the water bottle I borrowed from my daughters today, which is an REI outdoorsman water bottle.

So let's just really lean into the problems here. There's the case to be made of why they should have had it, but there is also an aggressive case why it makes sense for Netflix because in this new, like they have kind of a prestige division era where they want to grab a piece of the marketplace that they either had never had or kind of let, had seeded a little bit to Apple and HBO, exactly. This is the best of all worlds because it is not just high-minded, prestigious, literary, cinematic,

because they're banking on what Zoe Kazan did with East of Eden, but also pretty red meat, like pretty right down the middle, incredibly popular entertainment. So it is kind of a no-brainer to me that they would, in a level playing field, that bit everyone else for it. I have one plea. Yeah, I got a couple. please shoot this in Texas

yes yes oh no yeah are you thinking like New Zealand New Zealand is the setting for East of Eden now East of Eden I believe I mean they could have been shooting this for quite some time I think East Sweden started shooting like it may have been a COVID era like this is a good place to shoot if like

we're coming out and we still have I feel like East of Eden's been shot for a while I don't think we have the right read on I think it has been but we We don't have the right read on the timeline because I think it was announced a long time ago. Yes. And I think it was originally for a different streaming service when it was announced. I think it was Apple and Netflix picked it up.

Okay. So I think we may be dating it to our knowledge of the project, but that's probably not when they were shooting. Anyway, I understand why people shoot things in other countries and the tax breaks they get and the labor costs that they have. It is what it is. Yeah. I hate it. But this is an authentically Texan and Western story. Montana.

Yeah, Texan Montana story. If we can't get behind this, like, what are we doing? You know? I agree. That being said, I just said on the previous podcast we did, I believe when we were talking about,

maybe when the East of Eden trailer came out, so it was a couple podcasts ago. I said, you know, based on the trailer, it seems like Zoe Kazan has, reconfigured the East of Eden story a bit to be a little bit more about the Kathy character. Yes.

which is not really what you would get from it if you were reading the back of the book, say. You know, that is not what usually people lead with as what's East of Eden about. Yes. If I, and I said, I really support that. I think it's like cool to see people who find different angles with their adaptations

and I don't think that everything needs to be a page for page recreation. So I have to then also stand on business and say, yes. Zoe Kzan, do your thing with Lonesome Dove. Now, I think that she is probably coming at this with, like, an incredible amount of reverence, as is Jeb Stewart. Jeb Stewart, for people who don't know, is a legendary screenwriter and producer who worked on the fugitive and diehard and has bones, has like old structural bones in the genre filmmaking world. And honestly, I feel like being named Jeb and doing Lonesome Dove will open some doors for some locations in Texas.

I don't mean to get back since it's going to be like, you mean, Jeb? Stewart, the Confederate General? Exactly. First thing on Google. Just tell him to only Google once. He'll be thrilled. So I guess I just was going to say it's just like I'm prepared to I mean I have no idea

how they're going to approach this but I wouldn't, I think it's important to be like supportive of like you do not have to shoot it exactly as it happens. No, I appreciate your being honest here holding yourself to account. intellectually, I agree with you.

Emotionally, I'm in a bit of, I'm in some tumult. Yeah. The feeling that I feel, this is maybe, this is definitely an inexact comparison. But it reminds me of two years ago, like when the Eagles, I don't know if you remember, they went to the Super Bowl, but like when a team that you spend all of your life obsessing over and consuming and like breaking down suddenly is in the public sphere and there are no other teams left and everybody's doing it, there's a very intense feeling for me of like, I, I, It makes me more anxious.

You were trying to gatekeep the Eagles. I was trying to gatekeep the NFC champion Philadelphia Eagles. No, but I'm very emotionally involved in the narratives as they mean what they mean to me. And now suddenly everyone's looking. Yeah. And Loansome Dove does not belong to us, but I do feel so intimately connected to it that the thought of it being dissected again, put back together,

examined, recontextualized, shaken up makes me nervous. It doesn't mean I don't trust these people to do it. I think there's a lot of opportunity to not just to obviously go deeper than the miniseries which cast a white actor Frederick Forrest as Blue Duck. I think there's some moments there that a lot of people would like to take back. We'd like to go to review and see if VAR.

The flag was up. The racism flag was up. Sorry. So and the fact that we were alluding to to the larger four-book series gives some nuance to characters like Blue Duck and the native people in general, in terms of the timeline of what was going on for them while Gus and, well, Gus and Call were coming up themselves. And it also gives context to other characters like P.I., who is a sort of comic relief

character in not just in Lonesome Dove, but particularly in the miniseries, I believe, is then in the mini series of Streets of Laredo is played by Sam Shepard, which is a legendary glow-up. Now you could cede the fact that maybe he's a little bit handsome in addition to being dippy, you know, in the first one. So you can build with that larger sense of, the larger sense of scale. But I do think the one thing that is going to be interesting for them to translate is that this book is, this book is for everyone. And we have talked about, we have written and other people

have written that Larry McMurtry, especially for writers of his era, was one of the very best male writers of female characters and just had such a deep in life and on the page curiosity in his female characters and invested them with so much more than many of his contemporaries and peers. But this story, this book is so incredibly insightful about aging male friendship. In a way, it is, you know, the father of our style. No, but sincerely, like, about emotion or lack of emotion and connection and purpose and sort of a quixotic purpose, like, it is a deeply, those characters are deeply male-coded in a way that I think also is worth exploring on the screen. Did I think I got Ken Paxton's vote? I think male friendship is worth a look.

You know, we haven't really gotten a lot of examples of it. Okay, but I'm trying to make the case that it's, particularly. Particularly nuanced in this book. And it is one of the ways that McMurtry was cutting against the expectation of two pals go on an adventure. Yeah, absolutely, man. So. I did a little bit of back of the envelope casting what ifs. Did you?

See, this is what you do when I'm doing other stuff. I just want to bounce some ideas off of you. Okay. This is a really difficult thing to cast not be, just because Robert Duval and Tommy Lee Jones own these parts. But we've got to be. bit of an emergency in American acting. You know, there was actually, like, recently a bit of, like, there was, like, a story about, it was just basically one of those, like,

here's a chart, and you're like, oh, okay, that seems good or bad, but, like, it was basically about the increase in British actors in American films and television and the decrease in American actors. And the pipeline is a little dry. Like, not only in terms of performers, in the age brackets that we're looking at for these characters, but also performers who don't look like

they were on the Mickey Mouse Club 10 years ago. Yes. And so we got to talk this out. To me... Or actors who haven't continued to address their lack of Mickey Mouse features with some external work. Makeup is a powerful thing.

Now, it's also worth noting that we're talking about Lonesome Dove, then Streets of Laredo is the sequel. So that would be a very aged character in that. Yes. We won't want to spoil anything for anyone. And then Dead Man's Walk, Comanche Moon prequels. Yes.

Now, I would imagine we're going to get two sets of Call and McCray. I don't think we're going to have one person play all these different parts because we've got like early 20s to late 60s, I believe, or 70s. And we have no reason to think that they are doing anything other than tracking the, not just the recommended reading order, but the publication order, meaning Lonesome Doves, chronologically is third. Yes. But it was the first published

and it's the most popular and it's where you should start the story. They're going to make Lonesome Dove and if it works, they will make more Lonesome Dove but they are making Lonesome Dove. They will take in the other books. But yes. The preferred reading order is

in chronological terms is 3-4-1-2. So the hardest thing for me to do was to unwind my initial thought about Gus and Woodrow. Okay. And it's McConaughey and Harold. Carlson. Wow.

I know it comes with a lot of baggage. They're about to do their second TV show together, brothers on Apple. Yeah. Is it about male friendship? It is, actually.

And I'll watch it. And I think people would bring some true detective baggage to it. This is smart. They're Texans. Yeah. They're the right age.

They actually are. I think you could age them up or down a bit if you needed to, as evidence in true detective, where they span decade. I mean, they're both comfortably, I believe, older than Tommy Lee Jones was

when he aged up to play call in 1989. Yes. Obviously, Tommy Lee Jones and Robert Duvall had a more weathered look than I think Woody Harrelson and... We were at a different place with peptides then. Yes. Here's a couple of concern trolls about this idea.

Number one, A, is like, are people going to be able to get over, like that's Woody Harrelson and Matthew McCona? I think they would. Number two... And by the way, you're saying McConaughey as call and Woody is Gus. I think that's the obvious one.

I think you could invert it if you wanted to be like, do you guys want to try something different? I think McConaughey could play both parts, but I don't know about Woody. I think Woody in True Detective showed that there is some Woodrow in him. Some Woodrow in Woody. Yeah. I think that there is like he would have that capacity.

And I think Matthew McConaughey could certainly play a rascal. but when I close my eyes I can see Woody Harrelson making biscuits yes beautifully said so let's start there okay great do you have

any other suggestions off the top of your head of an actor say age 40 to 60 who could embody either of those two parts diabolical well you want to know why it's diabolical I was not prepped for this

because there really aren't any and also you very quickly need to then start thinking about Australian and English actors. Yeah, yeah, the drop-off from McConaughey and Harrelson to A. Hemsworth is quite steep. Or even a Guy Pearce. Or even a... I mean, Ethan Hawk, I think, could potentially look okay on a horse.

Yeah. But, yeah. Let's go to Jake Spoon. Okay. Jake Spoon, we've talked about this many times, but one of the interesting things about the original miniseries that I'm sure they will call. correct is that there is such a, there's a very bright line between the movie actors that did this and the TV actors of the time.

Well, thankfully, there is no line anymore. There is no line anymore. And that's not necessarily a dig against Robert Eurek or Ricky Schroeder, but there's a differing level of charisma on the screen in that miniseries. How about Tom Pelfrier, Eben Moss, Bacharach? I think it's great. You've got to have somebody who's, uh, soulful but shifty.

Incredibly charismatic and incredibly self-sabotaging. And has a lot of demons, but is also like able to be a true snake charmer. Are you going to say Bernthal is blue duck? Look me in the eye and say it's not on your list. It's not on my list. I haven't gone that deep down the casting line. I have a couple others that I'll throw out there. Yeah.

For Dish. I did break my America first edit. and I do have Leo Woodall as Dish. That's cool. And for Newt, it's really hard because I think, even though Newt's supposed to be like 17, I have Jacob Loughlin.

Okay. Landman Jacob Lofland. Yeah, he's good. But he's a little older. He's older than Newt, like demonstrably. I don't know if you age nude up. I don't know like what you want to do with that, but... You have a Dietz?

I don't. McKeeth Stanfield? I think it's pretty good, man. I think I, I, I, I, I, this is exciting. Yeah. They should hire us. I'll just say it. They should bring us on.

Yeah, because male friendship consultants. Deets is in his 40s. I mean, it doesn't matter. I mean, you can do whatever you want with it. I mean, Danny Glover played him famously in the mini series and was incredible. Yeah, I think that's exciting. Do we have a Paul Dano spot? Yes.

July Johnson? That's a great call. His, his arc. that's going to be a fun one to cast because it really is going to reflect how people see this character and his arc is a little more heroic seeming

but it depends how you see the character is Chris Cooper in the miniseries to play the part young Chris Cooper by the way another potential Jake Spoon would be Anthony Star not American that's pretty good though but then we start getting the Aussies in here

you know it's exciting I mean it would be it would be really meaningful, I think, to us for this to be done right and also to be done expansively. And by that, I mean, expensively and correctly. And, you know, for the, you know, not for the long haul, meaning they're going to like squeeze 10 seasons out of this, but that they will really tell a full story. I would imagine it's a season per book. I don't think they're going to do Lonesome Dove over the course of multiple seasons.

Do you? I think, my... Interesting, Greenwald? Yeah, my guess is that Lonesome Dove is the name of the series that they are going to make. success, it will be longer and include other chapters, so to speak. But I also wonder if there's like, this is the other reason why it would have been interesting. I mean, I don't want Taylor to do this show, but his, the way that he franchises himself, like there are so many stories here. And certainly like Comanche Moon, which is the weakest of the series, just is kind of like this wild tumble of like

story spackle over 40 years. And in it, you get more context on. on the characters that we've come to know and love, but also brand new characters that he was just throwing out there. There's a, the Union General who has his eyelids cut off. And then wear sunglasses. But there's also real historical figures like Charles Goodnight, who is a real rancher who was very, very prominent in the West. And one of the incredible things about the book is when they just cross paths with him.

And he's incredibly odd. But McMurtry did his research and created an indelible, character out of a historical figure. And so if you expanded it and expanded the B story and C story and then maybe had a companion series, you could do a lot here. I like your casting. Thank you.

You're welcome. I think McConaughey and Harrelson... But do you think, like, you're 100% right, though, that the list, like Netflix has lists. They maybe even reached out to people. And do you think the list is even 50% American? I don't know. I really don't know.

I mean, I don't know whether or not audiences care anymore. You know, if it's, like I said, if it's, if they made Gus and Woodrow Russell Crow and Guy Pearce, would people be like, I'm furious about this? You can't, you can't cast two Australian guys? No. I mean, Australians, Australians are the Texans of England. You know what I mean? So I think that would be different. Can we see your inbox?

I don't think you can pin us down. No. I just think that we're- which way we'd vote in Texas. But other than that... Other than that, you don't know. We're scrambling up the perceptions of the parties. I wanted to talk to you a little bit.

We obviously will continue to monitor this situation. Is there any other, like, headline news that you wanted to discuss? Is it like 1230 now? Are we done? No, not at all. We've been doing this. Is there any other headline news? I don't know.

You spooked me with the computer, so I closed everything now. Well, I didn't see anything. So there's that. How about that? You didn't want to talk about the Hawaii. movie. Did you, did you?

No, but sometimes you surprise me. Sometimes you say stuff that I didn't know about. Well, by that same token of me saying like Zoe Kazan's allowed to do whatever she wants with Lonesome Dove. Right.

I suppose, and the fact that Lonesome Dove is being made at all. Yeah. Is it really, would it be churlish to be like who needs Hawaii 50? I think Lonesome Dove probably has a bigger footprint in American culture than Hawaii 50. Well, Hawaii 50.

They've also done several. But has it been a movie? I guess not. There you go. There's more to explore on the big screen. Also, now it's Sean and Amanda's problem. Enjoy. Don't you wish you could just hit skip on the worst parts of your life?

You know the same way you can skip an ad? I get it. I'm Siaia and I live in Ice Cove. I've made some questionable decisions that didn't end up the way I planned. And today I'm still figuring it out. Somehow things usually get worse. worse before they get better. Apparently, that's how I roll. So bundle up and come along for the bumpy ride. Stream a new episode of North of North Tuesdays on CBC Gem. Do you want to talk about the

Emmys? Tell me what you're thinking. Because I know you've really spent the last few days pouring over the creative arts Emmy results. No, but I did read a little bit about them just to get a sense. I mean, you were very right that the Widows Bay train has left the station. Yeah. And there is no break man. You know, like it's just true Denzel and Chris Pine are the only two people. could stop Widows Bay at this point. A little unstoppable joke for people. I got it. Thank you.

I want to go through the five or six major categories here. Yep. And say what will win and what should win. Okay. I'm calling up the noms. So why don't we start with comedy series? Okay. Abbott Elementary, the bear, hacks, Margot's got money troubles.

Nobody wants this. Only murders in the building, shrinking, Widows Bay. Okay. I think this is a should win, we'll win. But like the same answer. I think it's Widows Bay. Yeah. Widows Bay is going to win.

This is a book it, put it in stone. I think it's pretty thrilling. I think it's deserving. I think it is a rare case where it's, I think, you know, at our mid-season check-in, it was maybe both of our number one shows are certainly in the top two or three. It's one of the most exciting shows of the year. And happy to report to all the comedy police out there that I think, it's the funniest of all of these nominees.

I personally thought the bear was funnier, but that's okay. Because you, like Ken Paxton, you laugh at trauma. Ken Paxton like, ha ha, car me again. I can't believe it. This guy doesn't handle pressure well. Making it sound reasonable. Because I just don't even know how he talks. I've never been like, like, time to watch some Paxton tape.

I would check in with you. Because sometimes you're like... If I just kept sending you back... No, because sometimes you're like, you know, honestly, it's incredible to be child-free. Like, we watch these movies. We go for long walks. I get to have these drinks to my wife, you know?

But then there's the B side of it. We're like, just crushing. Yeah. I'm like, are you worried what's going on the insurance industry? I'm worried about that. I do... Gotta hand it. Trump ethers this guy every time he introduces him.

He's like, this guy looks like absolute shit. I hate this guy. A fucking dirt bag. Please vote for him. But your next, your next senator, yeah. Okay, so Widows Bay, Woodwin, shall win,

should win for comedy for drama. The diplomat, the Gilded Age, a night of the seven kingdoms, Paradise the Pit, pluribus slow horses, your friends and neighbors. What do you think should win? It's a tough one,

because as has been the case for the last few years, I think that this category is really an assortment of gentlemen's Bs and B-pluses other than honestly your friends and neighbors and Paradise is

maybe sort of that meme with the three dragonheads and it's the crazy one but I respect it for that and interestingly like Shalene Woodley won an Emmy for her performance on Paradise of this season

I would say there are three and I full disclosure I have not watched the Diplomat season two or the Gilded Age seasons any But I think that there are three stronger candidates here that I could get behind.

I think you can make the case for Knight of the Seven Kingdoms because it was so deeply surprising and just so absolutely wonderfully made. A rare example of a show, especially a first season of a show, just hitting its target and communicating it right from jump. I would make a case for pluribus because it was unlike anything else and engaging in ways that felt unfamiliar since the last time Vince Gilligan was on our TV screens with Better Call Saul. And then the third one that deserves it is the one that's going to win, which is the pit. Yep.

I think that the pit will win and I think that Pluribus should win. I have a tendency, I think, to get tired of monarchies or dynasties rather in awards. The Emmys are particularly vulnerable to having a seven-year run of a show, you know, or a five-year run of a show winning every year, kind of no matter what. It's no knock against the Pits' excellent second season. I just think that Plervis is the kind of show that I think should be celebrated.

Yeah. And I think I actually did some interesting things with TV that I hadn't seen before. And I'm really, I love that show. And I think it should be celebrated in that regard. But I understand that the Pitt is going to win. I think someone has to come and take the Pits crown. And I think it's...

It's going to take a really big show to do that. It is. I think it would either take, a show that can succeed on the pits terms, which is making everyone love TV again in a very familiar and old-fashioned way and hitting its release dates and being a ever-present part of our lives, which is incredibly hard to do. Or it's going to have to snatch it from the other side of the aisle and be a no-douder prestige drama firing on all cylinders, of which we don't have that many anymore. And by that, I mean, you know, in the mold of a madman or a sopranos

or a better call Saul or maybe in season two in success, pluribus. In anthology, which has become kind of the forgotten category, I think, because whether it's because if you make a good limited series or anthology series, it tends to then become a continuing drama. We have all her fault, The Beast in Me, Beef, DTF, St. Louis, and Love Story, John F. Kennedy, and Carolyn Beset. And by the way, did we said, I imagine you said a moment ago when I was desperately trying to find a list of the nominees that the awards are Monday night.

Yes. Because they're ducking. They're ducking NFL. Yeah, they're ducking and Raj. Shameful. Yeah. Okay. So I feel like this is a category where I've sampled most of them.

Although I did not get on that plane for Love Story. Did you? I think I would probably say that Beef should win. I watched a couple of episodes of Love Story and was not a fan. I watched a couple of episodes of All Her Fault. It was not my jam. I liked Beast in me. I liked Beef.

I respect DTF St. Louis, but it wasn't really my favorite. I think DTF St. Louis is going to win. Yes. And I am happy for that because I think Steve Conrad should keep making shows. And I want him to have, like, the award kind of backing. It's an incredible story. I mean, I think Beef is one of my top three shows of the year. I think Beef should win.

Really? Yeah. Can I tell you something? Yeah. You're starting to have too many shows to be in your top three. No, I've got three. Furious Beef and Widows Bay. Damn, dog.

I'm locked in. I'm not making up. But, you know, because sometimes you can be like, this is definitely top two. That's what I do with music. That's what I would be like, just to get in this attention economy, I would try to, you know, grab you and say, like, this is definitely the single greatest song of the decade. Sure. sure. It worked for me

for a few years. It did. I mean, it works for everybody, you know? For a little while. Yeah. It worked for Drake May.

Careful. Yeah, I think TTF St. Louis is going to win. I think that's something that we also... The creative arts Emmys kind of showed

that there was a tremendous amount of momentum for that show. I think that's a credit to the show, which did connect with people. I think it's a credit to HBO's incredibly

impressive marketing and awards team in terms of getting, pushing a narrative, making it, I mean, the show got good rating, so I'm not saying it was an uphill climb, but they are very good at doing this when they have something to work with.

But separate and apart from the fact that I didn't enjoy watching the series, I think it's a great story because Steve Conrad is someone who has made a beloved shows that were criminally or underseen. Yeah. And had the reputation of someone.

Patriot. Yeah, and then Perpetual Grace LTV. Then he made the puppet show also. Ultra City Smiths. Good for you. Thanks. It's an incredible thing then when you get, like, no disrespect to our friends at Amazon Prime video 10 years ago,

but like you get the call of the majors and you just start throwing gas. And if you're given the right opportunity and the right marketing and the right casting and the right push, you can connect. I think that's a nice story. It's, it's REM signing with Warner's, you know what I mean? Put now green.

I will. So yeah, DTF shows. win or will win and I think beef should win but I don't feel incredibly strongly about this one. Actor in a comedy, Yaya Abdul Mateen the second for Wonder Man, Steve Carell for Rooster, Matthew Reese for Widows Bay, Jason Siegel for shrinking, Martin Short for only murders in the building. I'm going to pair this with something else. Okay. Which is actor in an anthology limited or movie.

I was hoping you'd bring this one up. Riz Ahmed and Bate, Jason Baitman in Black Rabbit, Charlie Hunnam and Monument. the Ed Gein story, Oscar Isaac and beef, Matthew Reese, in The Beast in Me. Now, I just got done reading a wonderful back and forth between Katie Rich and Chris Rosen and the Ancler, going over the Creative Arts Emmys, talking about the momentum, making some predictions for the Emmy.

So this was something that I had not really even deeply contemplated until yesterday. Is Matthew Reese going to win both these awards? I think there's a real chance. Did you watch Bates, the Riz Ahmed show? A little bit, yes. Did you? He's great. He's always good.

I feel bad that I did not watch that. I think that this is a category where there is a chance that someone like Charlie Hunnam could win for, I mean, award shows, whether they are Oscars or the Emmys, love it when actors play real-life people, whether they are popular musicians or monstrous serial killers. There's a path there, I think, for him. I don't, I think Jason Bateman might win for DTF, so I don't think he'll win here. Or was he not nominated for DTF? I guess would it be in this category? Or did David Harbour beat him? He was only nominated for this.

Or Black Rabbit. So are people going to check the box if they like DTF? I don't know. The more I look at it, the more it seems like the Reese Mentum might be unstoppable, especially because Chris and Katie did point out that this, Anthology Limited is a strange, historically, strange award that sometimes goes against the grain. But I think that things are lining up for it to be like, this dude is the most delightful and best actor on television. Let's give him two

awards to the extent that there is a group think like that. So I think he will win and should win for Widows Bay. I really liked Jason Bateman in Black Rabbit. I thought it was some of his best work. It was also like offbeat for him. It was some of his best hair. For sure. Top three Jason Bateman hair. Top two. Well, it would be this, the cotton and dodgeball. Great call. Great call.

And the Hogan family. Yeah, the Hogan family. When it was pure, you know? That original, that original cut. So are we saying Matt Reese should win would win? Look, I don't want to say anything against him. I think one of the things that's been really fun, just as a fan of him for years since the Americans,

and as someone, both of us who have been in the room with him when he's come on the podcast, genuinely one of the most delightful people we've ever hung out with. Can I give you a bunch of money? Yeah. And his reputation deserved in the industry has been, like, this is guys the real deal. He can do comedy.

He can do drama. He can do anything. But I never got the sense that he was recognized by the general public as the superstar that he is. And that, I think Widows Bay, despite being limited by the viewers on Apple, has changed the narrative about that. and I think people will vote for him

just to get him on stage again. He's navigating modern television better than any actor I can think of. It's a good prompt. That's not even like, give me somebody who does it better. I just mean like the choices he's making the variety of roles he gets to play.

And the way he can like move from a sort of prestigey but pulpy crime show to a quirky, comic horror to, you know, isn't he the lead in presumed Innocent season two also? I think you might be right.

Or are you joking? I'm not joking. Yeah, I think you might be right. We seem to have definitely mastered his own schedule. I will say that. Actress in a comedy. Quinta Brunson for Abbott, Iota Berry for the Bear,

El Fanning for Margot's Got Money Troubles, Lisa Kudrow for the comeback, Jean Smart for Hacks. This one feels the gene, This is where Hax is going to get its awards. I think so. Award. The only other one that I could see happening is L. Fanning,

because clearly Emmy voters liked Margo's Got Money Troubles. And I think she's great in it. Yeah. I don't think you can, I don't think you could bet against the person who has won it every year that she's been nominated. I have an outside, I don't think this is going to happen, but I have an outside I.O. bet.

do you? If I was going to, if we were betting this. Is this what Bill and Sal were talking about when they said teasers are back? Is that what this means? Because I didn't know. I thought she was fantastic.

And so funny. hilarious. Right? You laughed. You laughed. You laughed. She would Paxton being like, she's worried about her dad.

Actor. I think she's awesome. But I think the combination. She's smart will win. Who should win? El Fanning? Well, I would say, I mean, look, the I.O. argument is a good one to make because over the course of this series, she has shown an incredibly broad skill set.

I mean, you're joking. It is weird to say, like, that was a comic performance. No, exactly. But it is a award-worthy performance over five seasons. But I think the general turn, not just in my opinion of the last season, but I think the awards voting membership turn. And by the way, this would be for the fourth season. So all this can have. happen again next year. Oh, okay. So you're not going to be getting, the bear's going to be nominated again next year, most likely, in some of these categories, if not all of them. And so if there's any legacy last time up bounce, it would come next year. Okay. Quinta has won this award, right? I believe she did in between the Gene Smart, or I just remember her winning

for the show. She won outstanding lead actress in a comedy in 2022. Let Maine decide. You know what mean? Okay. All right. This is when you're... Let the voters decide. Actor and a drama, Sterling K. Brown in Paradise, Gary Oldman and Slow Horses, Mark Ruffalo, and Task. Rufus Sewell and the diplomat, Noah Wiley in the pit. Noah Wiley's going to win this. Yep. You want to have a Wiley-Ruffalo conversation? You want to have a Wiley Sterling Brown conversation?

This is such an interesting category because the five actors nominated are all doing five distinct things. Yeah. I don't think there's very little overlap in terms of what they're being asked. Dr. Robbie certainly farts less than Jackson Lamb. that is true. Well, we don't know that because let's do it. You could do an investigation

because I can't imagine you're going into the pit like nostrils open. You know what I mean? There's probably a lot of sense in the emergency room, yeah. And a lot of people to blame it on. Yeah.

You can really spread the blame around in there. Like Gary Oldman's performance on slow horses is iconic, incredible, consistent, certainly worthy of celebration. But he, because he does the same exact thing every year for potentially 10 straight years,

I don't know when voters would be motivated to reward him for it up against flashy or new things every fall. I don't watch the diplomat. I like Rufus Sewell, but I don't think he's considered to be a main threat in this category. But Sterling Brown is giving a very old-school TV star.

He's got to run, he's got to shoot, he's got to emote, he's got to carry a baby across an apocalyptic America. Jack from Lost at the same time. That's good. The two Jacks. Oh, the two Jakes was the China. Wiley's going to win, I think Ruffalo should win.

Yeah, I do too. Although the interesting thing here is Wiley is giving a an incredibly charismatic measured performance across what has already been 30 hours of television, which is incomprehensible in competition with shows

that are like six episodes. every two years. The other difference is just like a marathoner versus a sprinter. Because when Ruffalo gave this incredibly searing, brilliant performance that he gives in task, which I agree with you, he should win for. He left it all in the field because I know there have been discussions about making a second season, but that was not assured. So the plot line he was given was a full arc.

Still mad about task not being nominated for drama. It's crazy. It's crazy. But in a weird way, his performance should be measured. against a mini-series category, because that's kind of the intensity, beginning, middle, and end that he gave. Actress in a drama.

Carrie Coon for the Gilded Age, Chase Infinity for the Testaments, Kerry Russell for the diplomat, Ray Seahorn for Pluribus, Zendaya for Euphoria. That's a cool category. I think Zendaya should win. I think Carrie Russell will win.

Interesting. I think Zendaya is definitely deserving of winning for her performance being the fucking the pace car for a truly insane season of television. Sort of in this, it's like the pace car driving in front of like an massive car accident. No, she is delivering like solid, remarkable, charismatic performance, like an elite luxury vehicle.

And then behind her is the Fury Road menagerie. She's like Audrey Hepburn with the top down. Yes. And then behind her is Furiosa. Genuinely. I think that, first of all, I love a narrative. I think Carrie Russell, who is an incredible actress and still, I think, underrated winning while her husband wins. One, if not two awards, is incredibly sweet.

They're a lovely couple in real life and on screen, and they deserve success, happiness, and recognition. But I think Ray Seahorn should win. I think she's owed because I don't even think she was nominated for Better Call Saul. Is she not? I think she was maybe nominated for the final season, which was celebrated at the time. but that even that was overdue. The show does not work without her. It's written for her.

What she did over the course of one season is maybe fading slightly in our memory because it was a brief period of time. It was only a couple weeks, basically, in the end of the year. But it was astonishingly good. Let's do actress Anthology Limited our movie to end this up.

Claire Dane's in The Beast of Me. Sally Field, in remarkably bright creatures, What did you think about remarkably bright creatures? I don't understand what distinguishes this from any other Netflix movie. So the idea that this was made for television in some way, but was on Netflix, I don't understand. So then, like, why isn't Matt Damon and Rip, the Rip eligible for Best Actor? You know what I mean?

Is he not? It's a great question. I mean, he wasn't nominated, but... I guess I had... Honestly, this whole debate hadn't occurred to me until I saw Sally Fee. field being nominated for for remarkably bright creatures. She has that effect on people. Carrie Mulligan for beef, Sarah Pigeon

for love story, Sarah Snook for all her fault. I don't have a ton of feeling about this one. I suppose this makes it a poor last category for us to do. I think Sarah Pigeon is going to win. I do too. I have feelings about this. And award shows love to anoint a star and she was the talking point coming out of that

series which did gangbusters ratings. I guess I would say Carrie Mulligan, the two performances that I like the most here are Carrie Mulligan and Claire Dance, and I think Carrie Mulligan had a little bit more scope to it. I didn't watch all her fault. I can't imagine Sarah Snook being anything less than excellent. I watched two or three episodes of that,

and then my wife informed me of what happened at the end. Yeah. Just between us, was it, in fact, all her fault? It's okay. Nobody's listening. It always is. It always is, yeah. I love Carrie Mulligan's performance in beef,

and I would love to see her win. I would say, like, for The Beast in Me, which I did not finish, I Claire Daines was doing it, but that was not my favorite Claire Dane's performance. Yeah, I weirdly like this Claire Dames performance because she has a normal job. Rich writer for the New Yorker? Super normal job. Do you want to talk about the second season of the paper? I do.

I do. I really do. So this came out on, this is one of those weird, like, it's on NBC once a week, but I believe the entire season is on Peacock. Today, right? Yeah. Oh, no, yeah, last night. Last night.

I had high hopes for this because I think that this is a classic sitcom situation where I think they might need a season to figure out some of the kinks. And then they get to the second season. They're like, we know who can do what on this show. And we know where we want to take it. And obviously it's something NBC believes in to the extent that it came back for a second season. you know, I,

how do I say this? Take your time. I don't know whether or not how much I want to like it is impacting how much I like it, if that makes sense. Because of the expectations you carry into it

or the fact that you want to show them. This is a show that like I routinely like usually like to have one of these in rotations. You know, I am not, I like having Superstore on in the background. I don't mind, you know,

like I like ending my, night if it's been a stressful day with a nice like modern family how I met your mother adults you know kind of show in a Newport light and a Newport light call it a Tuesday uh I think I I but I'm watching this show with like way more like is this working is this not working rather than just letting it happen and letting it be successful on its own terms I watched the first two episodes of this season as you instructed me the second episode definitely gave me like lot more like, oh, okay. Like this show can go a lot of different places,

and I think the characters are interesting, and the jokes are getting more knowing of, like, what different performers can do? What did you think of the episodes that you've seen from this new season? I'm aligned with you in that I liked the first season fine and was also more than willing to give it a chance to find its footing.

I think one of the real challenges of this type of show, and by this type of show, we mean hopefully long-running ensemble comedy, is that the choices you make at the beginning in terms of casting and where you place the characters on the game board and then let them go, where you begin them is not often where you want them to end up. And so there's just growing pains. And we love and celebrate Parks and Rec.

And then you go back and you realize that Adam Scott and Roblo didn't join until, I believe, the third season. So it takes these things, these things take time. And it's important to try to give some grace if the general vibes are promising. And the season one was promising enough to overcome, I think, a lot of the skepticism of we're this many years later, we're doing a direct spinoff of one of the most successful broadcast comedies of all times. I

have, I watched the first one, and I thought of this season, and I was like, okay, I like, there's some funny things bubbling up here. The idea that someone in the company has died that no one knows who actually was a black ops meth cook from the Wagner group. Yeah. It's pretty rich comedic terrain.

It's a huge storyline on Wynas. As imagined crossover. The second episode was the one where, at least for the first half of it, I was like, okay, I see. They're starting to cook now. They're starting to understand certain pairings work better with each other, writing towards those pairings, writing, understanding the characters and the performers that they're writing to.

And then the show did something that possibly cost me my fandom. And what I mean is it tried to, there's a recent history of sitcom. overcoming what we perceive of because we know too much about TV shows as problems by steering right into them. Sure. The example I would give is, will there, won't they couples, let's just have them do it and then move on, you know, not stretch it out over season after season after season like a la Sam and Diane.

You're talking about Daniel Radcliffe and Megan the Stallion and Reggie Dinkins, right? I wish we were talking more about that. That is my favorite comedy of the year, bar none. One of the top three shows easily of 2026. No hesitation in saying. Peacock Division. So this show, for example, with Ned and Merritt, ran right at that. Yeah.

The where it trips up, I think, is the second episode really runs at the documentary conceit in a way that I found totally exhausting and vibe-killing. So to make clear what I mean, the idea of the single-cam documentary setup, like Modern Family did that, the office, the original office did it, the American office famously did it, Parks did it. Parks did it and never once said a documentary crew is following us. That was the style. We just understand the visual language.

The Christopher Guest movies did that as well. And they're doing straight to camera interviews. They do straight to camera, but yes, but they don't say it's a documentary crew. The office announced the conceit and then pretty much ignored it until they ran out of story. And then they tried to make a cameraman, an emotional poochie in the Jim and Pam relationship when they completely ran out of other stuff to do. And I was very angry about that in my Grantland days. and I remain quite angry about that.

I feel like Greg Daniels and the people making the show are like, we need to deal with that elephant in the room early because otherwise what are we doing? And so they hinted at some things in the first season of like Oscar being like, I'm not doing this again, I won't sign the release, how are they getting the private moments or the romantic moments? In the second episode of the season,

Ned and Mayer, who were trying to keep their burgeoning relationship secret, go on a weekend outing. And they're trying to keep what's going on secret from the office. and there's some hijinks because then they get a work call. They're trying to be weekend net and weekend marriage. Fine. A great setup, comedy, tension, all of that. But the camera conceit requires the show to devote real airtime and also writer's room real estate to a camera crew jumping in a follow car

and then hiring a delivery robot to spy on them while they are having sex in a hotel room. The juice is not worth the squeeze. We know how to watch television shows at this point. And the amount of effort being put into the conceit of it being a documentary that we don't care about is totally off-putting and silly to me and breaks up the momentum that the show is starting to form. Are you with me on this? You're not as militant as I'm very curious to know. So Michael Coleman also works on this show and he's, you know, Greg Daniels is... He co-created it with Greg Daniels.

And I think it's still involved. I mean, my point is that Michael Coleman comes from Nathan for you. Yes. Has a background in Nathan for you and in background in Conan. but like I wonder whether there is a sly kind of societal commentary going on here. Yeah. The first episode also features a lot of security camera footage. Yes.

You would wonder if you were like actually assembling a documentary about a paper company. Like why do you need to have like all this seraptitious footage of people having personal meltdowns or personal romantic interludes? And I wonder whether it's supposed to be like a commentary on our surveillance day, would be like a degree of which it's like messing with the conceit of like, we just take at face value that these characters are being observed. I appreciate the point of view. And I think that made for some exciting conversation when Greg Daniels was looking for a collaborator to create the show.

But at a certain point, you've got to make a comedy that works on its own merits. And I also feel, I mean, I'm not concerned trolling. I like the show. I want it to succeed. But there's some things here that are slightly concerning. And one is that like the lesson from the office, that Great Daniels was celebrated for and should be celebrated for,

was that how to take it from the very spiky, very brief British show, which I think had, what, eight episodes total or something like that, including the Christmas specials. I'm sure that number is slightly off, but it was low. It was very funny,

but also had like a real layer of melancholy to it. And I think in the office, US, it was more just like, your work family can be your real family. Yes, and it was like, like we feel in this country, like spend more time at work. Why not? But also that Michael Scott was ultimately lovable and decent despite being foolish.

That was the tweak that worked. The other brilliant conceit was, even though there were only four or five cast members listed in the opening credits famously in the office, they cast every background character with people they liked, people they fell in love with in the casting process, people they saw hope for writers for the show like Mindy Kaling. And the ensemble developed naturally from what they were seeing on the screen. And you can tell that they tried to run that back. There's nothing wrong with that. But what you end up with with the paper,

on the poster for season two, there are 11 people. That is a very, very big ensemble, even before you get to the other characters who aren't even on it, like Alan Havy, the old comedian who's on Mad Men, who plays the boss, or Nancy Lennahan, who is great on Widows Bay. It's a really, really, really big ensemble.

Yeah. And some of them are working. I'm just, you know what, I can't stop smiling because I'm imagining an undecided voter in Texas. Thinking about which show to vote for. Cracking a USA Today and there's a full page ad for the paper season 2. He's like, that's simply too many people on the poster.

I think it is too many people on the poster. That's why Al Rico will not get money. I think common sense Americans can agree on that. I'm not trying to tell you who can be on your sports teams. I'm just saying it's too many people in a broadcast sitcom poster. It's an abundance mentality that frankly we can't afford. It's the cheesecake factory menu, yeah. It's building an arch when people are struggling.

You know what I mean? Now I'm appealing to the purple voter. But what I mean is, like Alex Edelman, a very funny, accomplished comedian and writer who writes for the show is on screen as a character who's so far, because of the lack of screen time, his personality is kind of confused baby. There's room for that character to grow,

but he's not popping yet. Yes. Characters, but it's not that he's not popping, it's the problem, it's that others are. Like Eric Rayhill as Travis is hilarious, and the rhythm is fantastic. and the show has never made me laugh harder than in the second episode

when someone makes a stray comment and it just pans to him and he just sings the stained song that they just said, more of that, please. If I could film that on my phone, like that was great stuff. I also think that Chelsea Fry

is fantastic as mayor. So they're working pieces here. But then over on Mars, you've got Sabrina and Patchettoria as Emeraldah, who they like, who is an incredibly odd and unique comic energy and who does not fit on this show.

And they have not figured out how to account for that energy yet other than recently they're pairing her with Tim Key, who's a brilliant British comedian. Yeah. Who they also hired. So I just get the sense

that they walked into the store with a very big budget, bought everything and everyone they liked, and now they're having to figure it out in real time. And I also... It is not a bad problem to have, but it is yet to translate into consistent.

Not unlike adults. Yeah. I don't think 10 episodes is enough per season. And I think that this is, a genre and a media, like a style of television making that needs 10 hours, not 10 episodes. You know what you mean? Like I think it needs like a longer runway to like work stuff out per season. I understand that there are economic headwinds that and also perhaps like audience trends that make that impossible.

But I'm going to continue to watch just because I really. We like shows like shows like. I think that's why I'm more impassioned about it because I think they have every chance to succeed now. Good. But because like you said, the run times are, the season orders are shorter. Every episode feels more important than maybe it ought to. And the, so the criticism is increased. I think there's just some, my worry is that there's just some, like,

original sins that you can't, you can't solve for. Yeah. And one of them is that Donald Gleason's character as the star doesn't work, doesn't fully make sense. In the first season, he's sort of, they're trying to find that sweet spot between, like they did with Leslie Knope, where it's like, in the first episode,

but everyone hates him because he's annoying and extreme. And then they're like, but they also secretly love him because he works harder than everyone else. Sure. But also he's kind of a snakey weirdo, and they can't decide where to land on that. And so then the axis spins towards your beloved Esmeralda. And I'm just trying to tar you with like a foreign brush for the voters.

Well, I couldn't die in Lane again that part. Well, I don't know if I want to make Ken Paxson like a big character on this show. I'm just going to say that. Do you think that you're going to get a call later to? today and Bill's going to be like, we need Paxon unrewatchable. And you'll be like, hopefully, Bill Paxton, because that is probably a better lane for you. And he's going to be like, no, would the movie be improved with Senate candidate Ken Paxton? I also don't think that Mike Ken Paxton is translating to pure audio.

Oh, do you think because people, so are you encouraging people to fire up the YouTube here to see the face that goes with it? Maybe, maybe. But I also don't want to offend anyone if they're like, you know, like. Your body changes when you do it. It's pretty impressive. I do think everyone should watch something I don't know

Sasha Baron Cohen I just didn't have it the part Can we get the after dark lights Oh yeah yeah we got to do this Before we get out of here I almost spent all my Remaining gasoline on the paper

I'm a fool I know this is the number one topic On Andy's mind I know that this has been covered On some of our NFL podcast Specifically fantasy Yeah But as a global

A citizen of the world on a global traveler. Thank you. Thank you. I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about the two wolves of the NFL, Sean McVeigh and Kyle McSanahan, who had two separate approaches to trans-Pacific travel. The San Francisco 49ers in the Los Angeles Rams,

I believe, play today in Australia. They do. Although I suppose it is tomorrow in Australia. It's 10 a.m. tomorrow in Australia. The San Francisco 49ers chose to fly a week early an attempt to acclimate to Australia time. Yes. The Los Angeles Rams.

I believe they booked their flight on Oceanic Flight 815. L.A. to Sydney. So we have Miles Garrett in seat 8. Aaron Donald and seat 14. The MVP's in either the front or the tailies. Yeah. I've been fascinated by the story. The Rams chose to basically go in and out.

They're like, we're flying in, playing a football game, and then flying out. Yes. The idea being the Rams will never acclimate, and when they get back to California, like the jet lag situation. Now, there are no two men that I trust more deeply with the wonders and the mysteries of the human body than Shaw McVeigh and Kyle Shanahan. Certainly Kyle Shanahan has proven himself to be the Hippocrates of our time. Yes. You know, just like a born healer.

He has definitely convinced the world that it is not his instinct. same training methods, but in fact, an electrical substation that makes all of his players' muscles explode in their own body. Yes. Yes. I think that I would love to test this with us.

A, B. A B. With us. Yes. I would give you first pick. Would you rather have a week to get ready or in and out, basically spending 50 hours on a flight within 72 hours. What are you asking? What do you think? What do you think? whenever I had to be at work in London on Monday, I would be like, can I leave on the Wednesday before?

Sincerely, though, I would leave on Friday. See, but I would do that for fun. I don't know. What do you think? Do you think that there is any truth to the idea? Yes. If you just fly through it, jet lag never happens. Sure.

I mean, that sounds like a wonderful. Because I don't think that's true. No, I don't think it's true. happened to us up there. Yes. And I know that I read something about like the air bus that the Rams were taking. Yes. And it's all lie flat compartments.

And there's something specifically about it where they're like, it's going to be very quiet on the flight. Yes, but do you know why else it's going to be quiet? They rented or they procured these like luxury double-decker all lie flat to increase the comfort. And also I would imagine to help players sleep during normal night hours. They also booked these planes that have no why. Now, for you and I, we've got our 600-page books, we have our thoughts, that's fine.

But I think young men generally like to- You don't think Ty Simpson wants to rodogs all the way to Australia? I do not think it is good for their circadian rhythms or their life rhythms to be disconnected from the lifeblood of their young selves. So I worry about that too. The follow-up question. I could talk about this for an hour. I think this is so interesting.

like what entertainment was preloaded onto the flight. I think those guys would all be encouraged to get things under their iPads. Do you know what I mean? And I think there will be a contingent of people who are like, let's play some games of chance to pass the time. But do you think that who's the guy that we met? Kobe Turner, is that the guy's name? Remember when we did Mina's podcast and we were there with a...

Oh, yeah, he was also... Remember the LA Rams? Like, what if he forgot his iPad or what if he was focused on like body health and like he didn't download anything and he gets on the plane and the only thing on the screen is like Irma VEP on HBO, like all nine episodes. I'm not saying you wouldn't like it. Are you flying this plane?

I did book the entertainment system. I think it is so, and these are younger men, they're more, you know, they're more resilience than we are, and they are obviously devoted to the science of themselves and probably know what they need in a way that I'm still hoping to achieve before it's curtains. But in no world does it make sense to me, to just say, okay, okay, man, jet lag does not exist.

We are playing on the other side of the fucking planet at 10 in the morning two days from now, but it'll be your tomorrow. That is so disrespectful and crazy and very on brand, I think, with McVeigh's just like reality working identity as a head coach. It's wild to me because we have, this is not meant as a brag, this is meant just like, we have done the transit, we've done, that flight is 14 hours. I think. To Australia?

Yeah. Isn't it like 18? 14 to 18, something like that. Depends how fast Sean McFey's driving the plane, because you know he is. The flight that we have done and that I was doing regularly for the last two years is 11 hours. And I have never felt more like the ooze from Ghostbusters 2 than that subsequent 24-hour period. See, I think I fixed it. You always do.

You're at foils. You're having a pint. have the 10 p.m. Flight gets in at 4 p.m. the next day. It's already dark. It's, I go dark to dark. I just straight bane it. Like, I, I'm straight, bored in the darkness.

And then I hold out on alcohol for like 10 minutes. Four hours. Sure. And then as soon as it hits your lips. I know they say don't drink on jet. No, it really fixes you for about 80 minutes. I still maintain that in 24, I would have been fine. It was just that I got 800 text messages about Trump winning again

because I flew on election night. Yes. And I woke up at 3 in the morning and was like, fuck. Yeah. What does this mean for getting back? What does this mean for my Kalshi futures? I, um, luckily I was waiting for you with my cheery disposition. Yes, we then recorded the possibly worst episode of the watch ever the next day.

It's fair. I, uh... But otherwise, I've not had a bad jet lag trip in a while. The jet-like thing for me isn't what I'm trying to articulate is that I figured it out. Like, I know what to do the night before. I know which flight to take. I can sleep on the plane. I get there.

I have my routine. I even know what I like to do the next day. And I sleep that night. Like when you get there and you basically just have to make it to bedtime, it is okay. It's just that the next day I wake up thinking I'm fine, thinking I could go four quarters, you know, of a professional football, or at least my version of it, which is taking a bus to a flower market and hacking. in Hackney. But inevitably, that goodwill and good intention hits a brick wall at like 10 a.m. or even 11 or 12 when I perhaps invited you guys to join me for lunch. And then the food in front of us begins to move of its own accord. And the thought of ever ingesting anything again seems like

absolute poison. So I feel like what you wanted to do is talk more about your personal experiences. And not what I would love to talk about my experience. And by the way, Rochelle Cantine does a lovely Sunday lunch, and I apologize for my behavior there last time. What I'm trying to say is you cannot mind game your way past physical circadian reality, and they're going to be super fucked up. I'd also be scared if I was the Niners. Yeah. Because everything I'm seeing from them is, it's way nicer here.

Like Christian McCaffrey is like, I've never tasted coffee before like this. And what if those guys are like, I don't want to leave? I mean, you really run that risk with the 49ers. Yeah. It is basically a furlough. Eight of them are going to blow out their Achilles anyway, so they're just going to be like, I guess we live in for the Melbourne now.

We're just going to rehab here, so we're a day ahead of the American health care system. I find this so interesting. And I guess we'll see what happens on the field. We shall. That'll be a big topic for us on Tuesday when we're back. So I think the plan is, at least now, we'll be back on Tuesday morning

because we wanted to have the Emmys to talk about and we'll have lanterns. I hope everyone has a great weekend. In Los Angeles, please stay cool. Yeah. It has been very unpleasant. It's awful. And thanks to Kai Kaya and Sarah, we'll be back on Tuesday.