The Watch - Ep. 108: The Wall of 2016

Episode Date: December 22, 2016

The Ringer's Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald highlight eight people who made pop culture what it was in 2016. Listen as they discuss newcomers to The Wall like Riz Ahmed (12:00) and Phoebe Waller-Bridge (16:12), debate Donald Glover's success streak (24:58), examine Ryan Gosling's appeal (28:57), and eventually uncover the mystery of Jonathan Pangborn (34:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, just want to take a quick second to talk to you about Capital One. Capital One knows you've got questions about your credit. You may be asking, who's really in charge of my credit score, or how does my credit actually work? That's why Capital One created the Credit Wise app, so you can check your credit score anytime you want right in the app. And it's free to everyone, Capital One customer or not. In fact, millions of Credit Wise users have improved their score by 20 points or more,

so download the app for free today. Availability depends on the presence of credit history from TransUnion, credit-wise is offered by Capital One Bank USA. I need sports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now. Hello, and welcome to the Watch special year-end people of the year episode. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor at the Ringer.com, and joining me on the other line,

my person of the year every year. It's Andy Greenwald! We did it, man, another year. And what a magical year this was. This is wonderful. I loved this year. Can I jump in and can I say something weird? Sure.

Like, is it, is it, I actually had a pretty good year. It's just that, it's just that, it's just that, it's just that planet Earth didn't. So it was, it was kind of a tougher ride. Well, I'm glad it worked out for you. That's super. Andy, I hate to be that guy. Every year we do this episode, which we call internally, and we also refer to it as such on the pod, as the wall. So imagine Andy and I had a Hall of Fame museum a la Cooperstown for pop culture, and we just put people who we loved, people who made us really gave us a lot of joy over the course of the year.

We put their faces on a imaginary wall. Andy asked me a very good question the other day, which was, who are some of our previous inductees? And I don't remember. I do know that they include many cast members from the Bourne franchise and Reese Witherspoon. But other than that, I'll leave it to... Here's what I wanted to say about it. Old school watch Hollywood Perspectus scholars. Yeah, because we've done this before because we definitely said this casually for a while.

Then I think last year was the first year that we really officially did it and then promptly forgot. But we meant it when we said it, first of all, I think that when you were put on the wall, you stay on the wall. Unless you go to Trump Tower to meet with the president-elect, in which case you're in the system pending review. But other than that, the whole thing that you're describing, oh, my God. He needs help. I can't even, I can't even joke. This is going to go up in a couple of weeks, so we don't even know. From while we know, this could be like a secret mole operation on his part, but we don't want to get bogged down in politics.

Let's get... No, what I want to say instead is just picture that we have this wall. It's a perfect wall and a structure. It was designed by Jeremy Renner, who is a Hall of Wall of Famer, basically. A structure Hall of Famer, yeah. Reese Witherspoon is there. Joan Allen is there. Push a tea.

Basically all the people we love. And this year, we each chose four. new bright shining stars to hang on the wall. And you're going to go first, right? Yeah. Okay. So I gave myself, well, here's the thing. Reverse engineer it. Once I came up with my list, it's eight people four each. And once I came up with my list of four, I realized that the thing I was awarding a lot of this year was double duty. Anybody who did more than one thing that I really enjoyed got special consideration. And that's really the top here. And to start off with, I would love to induct an actress that was never really a favorite of a personal favorite of mine. I have

nothing but respect for her talent. But up until this year I never like adored her. But shout out to Amy Adams, man. In two of my favorite films from this year, Arrival and Nocturnal Animals, and she could not be more different. It was a real like incredible example of like her range as an actress. And in Arrival she plays the scientist who's responsible for communicating. with these newly arrived alien life forms who are trying to just hook it up for us, you know? They just want to tell us some secrets,

but nobody speaks the language except for Amy Adams. And then in nocturnal animals, she has the very difficult part of pretty much just reading a book for an entire movie and wearing dope glasses and she somehow pulls it off

and she has incredible hair in nocturnal animals. But in both films, I think she just gives like these incredibly, deeply felt portrayals of characters that could not be more different. And I just really adored watching our movies this year. Are you an Amy Adams fan? No. But that's why I was so surprised about this announcement and then was immediately rendered

ill-equipped to comment on it because I've not seen either of those movies. You are in my defense. A synephiliac this year, yeah. In my defense, I have received the screeners for both. So I look forward to talking with you about them sometime in April. You just got to get it a play. to watch them. I just got to get up in the air, man.

I just need to go where it's quiet. Okay. Let's go for your first one. Side note. No, no, no. Side note, I want to do a couple quick Amy Adams points for you. Are you getting ridicule to God S? Amy Adams? No.

Listen, this is a beautiful thing where we celebrate people. This is the holiday time. I'm just pouring out eggnog here all over you. Listen, nocturnal animals, I'm excited. I just want to put a pin in that because I do want to talk about it because you talked about it on the pod. a couple weeks ago and you raved about it. You got me really hyped to see it and I can't wait to see it.

Another friend texted me and said, if you see nocturnal animals yet? And I said, no. And the person didn't like it. And I said, why? And the person said, because the logline of this movie is a woman reads a book, which conversely makes me want to see it even more.

That is not what happens. Let me, that's not an accurate reflection. It is the framing device for this movie, but yeah. Okay. Here's what I want to ask you about Amy Adams. I, like you said, I respect Amy Adams talent. She is a Ben Zobris type grinder to me who is constantly put in an MVP position.

She works really hard in these movies. And I don't mean that as an insult, even though it sounds like one. You know, like in movies ranging from the master to Jason Segal's Muppet movie, like you can kind, the issue I have with it, it's not a lack of respect. It's that sometimes I feel like you can see the seams of the performance and that takes me out of it. But do you feel that she reached a different gear this year? No, I mean, I think that she's... I'm ready for the Adam Sons.

I think that it was a matter of the right time and the right material. I mean, like, I just really, I really appreciated her performances. Like, I think if you're looking at something like American Hustle in the past, it was like a very showy performance and a very showy movie. Yes. I liked her in The Master a lot. I think that that was supposed to be Reese Witherspoon, though, if I remember correctly from like the casting rumors back then. And it was actually supposed to be Renner Hoffman and Witherspoon, the original iteration of that movie. Right.

Which is kind of like, once you put that in my head, I can't unsee it. You know, but I just think that she had a great year. And, you know, wasn't she in Batman versus Superman too? Yes, she plays Lois Lane, right? Yeah, right. So she was just, she's kicking up. I mean, like, every, she's got it all. Let's go to your first person on the wall.

Okay, so I think the person we're going to, is it's a good segue because we're talking about people that I may have been mistaken about. And that is a young gentleman from 79 named Chance the Rapper. I was completely ignorant of this young man's ability and his talent. And coloring book completely blew me away. Well, beginning with his verse and ultra light beam, coloring book blew me away. Everything about the way he talks, the way he talks about music, the way he collaborates with people, the way he put on a festival and didn't even make himself the headliner in Chicago.

I just think he's such an exciting artist and he has an abulience that is contagious. And in this year, the way that he approached making art, contributing to culture, just basically getting to be on the main stage of his life was very inspiring in a year when I feel like it was very, very, you wouldn't be blamed if you hid from that spotlight. You know what I mean? Yeah. And he was somebody who... Yeah.

Oh, go ahead. Well, I was just going to say that Chance also had participated in one of sort of the iconic televised live performances of the years. Yes. Yes. When was he on the SNL? Was that last year? He performed as a musical guest by himself, and then I think he,

but I was referring to his performance with Kanye doing ultra-lapium. Yeah. It's an, I mean, that verse alone is, there aren't that many moments in culture in any year when someone has, you know, has their shot and then takes full advantage of it the way he did. I was listening to Coloring Book again, which is a very beautiful, very spiritual record.

You know, I was said back at the time when it came out that if I was very surprised that anyone would make me want to go to church, let alone a rapper on a mixtape that I had previously dismissed, but he kind of did. I have another compliment for him. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this that I think is almost, this almost could sound like an insult, but I don't mean it to be. When you listen to coloring book again, like there's an aspect of him that is almost Jimmy Fallon-esque. What I mean is he is such a good host and show. that he just blends into whatever track he's on. Now, if he was a less charismatic artist, then he would, you know, he's just a guy who blends into everyone else's stuff. But when you listen to him on all we got, you know, that is purely him. That is the kind of music he wants to make.

When you hear him on no problem, he experiments with flows that would compliment Little Wayne and two chains. When you hear him on mixtape, he does, you know, he sounds like young thug. Like he does a verse that is, dare I say it, thugg-esque. I think it's kind of while that he can be that chameleonic and still have enough charisma and charm to win out. Yeah, and he definitely, I don't know, he captured something about like this past, this summer. You know what I mean? I thought, I think it, there's a little bit of a bittersweet flavor to going back and listening a coloring book and the hopefulness and joy that's in that record, even if it's just musically,

because I know lyrically it delves into like a lot of serious topics, but it's such a good, uplifting record. It's sort of odd to listen to it now. No, but, you know, but there's a, there's an element to a lot of the hip hop and R&B that we really champion this year that we talked about when we did a podcast with Lindsay Zolads from the Ringer a little while ago. There is something that is particularly comforting about music that is pitched towards hopefulness and optimism, but tinged with an actually lived in sense of sadness. Yeah. If you were listening to records that were communal and joyful, just purely, purely candy for some of us who, for a lot of us who are very disappointed about the way the rest of the year went,

those things would taste very hollow. But, you know, the tribe called Quest record would have worked regardless of who won on November 8th because it's a record that comes out of a place of struggle and the optimism feels hard, hard won and hard fought. And that keeps me listening to it despite my own, my own darkness. Speaking of darkness, I want to shout out my next person for the wall is probably my favorite television actor of the year, I guess, would be Riz Ahmed, who's in

he is the star of the Night of of along with John Tuturo. Nas? Listen, I'm in the police station. It's all the mistake. They've arrested me. They think I did something. Murder. Night of is my favorite show of the year.

Riz plays Nas who is a young Pakistani-American American who is accused of murdering a girl he has a date with, or sort of an impromptu date with when he's driving his father's cab to a party. And the eight-episode miniseries or limited series was just, I don't know, I just thought it really just explored the things I'm most interested in when it comes to television in terms of the way that it spent and lingered on its characters and allowed

its character, the characters to develop and evolve in this limited amount of time. He gave such an impressive performance. I went back and looked at some of the earlier episodes, you know, because like towards the end, you get so wrapped up in the unsolving, the solving of the mystery and the stuff that's happening at Rikers. And you forget the completely different character he plays in the first episode. And it's kind of a testament. And it was sort of weird to put him on for this year because he actually shot that first episode in 2012.

So it is a different person. So to be able to come back to that character and, you know, sustain it and grow with it is such an impressive feat. Now, we are recording this on a Wednesday before Rogue One comes out. But I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I really also liked Riz Ahmed in Rogue One. You're just going to assume that. Yeah. Now, which version of the Riz Ahmeds that we know? Right now, I feel like those of us who don't know of his music career, know him as Nightcrawler Riz Ahmed, the first two episodes of Night of Riz Ahmed, or the last half of the season Riz Ahmed? Which one was your dream Star Wars? I think this guy seems a little bit more first few episodes of Night of, like a little bit more innocent. But I'm not sure. And also the interesting thing with this game, talk about having to deal with a lot of different industry shenan. going on, I think his character in Rogue One, and we'll find out later, is one of the main

characters who was sort of tweaked in reshoots and over the course of production, that his character had a different name when he signed on, and that the character had no backstory, and then since then, since his, you know, the reshoots that happened with Rogue One, his character got expanded a lot more. Let's go to your next. I think the thing, I just want to jump in on Riz, because I think the thing that he also highlights, which I'm glad you're putting up on the wall for the listeners to appreciate and enjoy is the joy that we can still get from especially television of seeing someone seemingly come out of nowhere and own something. Yeah.

You know, he was the star of this show. And I think a lot of people didn't know who he was going in, but he delivered, you know, it's like in the sense of like physical transformation. It's a De NiroS performance. I mean, it's incredibly charismatic. As you said, he becomes a different person. And I think as movies get more and more blockbustery, and frankly, as TV does too, the opportunities to see someone who maybe hasn't gotten the chance to shine, do what I was saying about Chance the Rapper and just grab the mic basically and own it.

Those moments are fewer and farther between, but they're no less special when they happen. And so I would, in that vein, I would just throw up one of my runners-up, which is Sterling K. Brown, who was one of, if not the breakout stars of one of our favorite shows, People versus OJ. Because, you know, who knew what that guy was capable of until he had a chance? to prove it to everyone else. Similarly, Courtney B. Vance is at an incredibly long career, but, I mean, I don't know if he's ever had a full-stake dinner

in front of a camera the way he did on that show. So I feel like there's room for those guys on the wall of my heart, but I was only given four choices. Yeah, well, do your second choice because I think that's another person who came out of nowhere, and it's Phoebe Waller Bridge. Do you know what the lesbian app for Grindr is called? Twatnow.

Yes, the queen, Phoebe Waller Bridge. You know, have I mentioned that she was a, she's a veteran of the Andy Greenwald podcast? Did you know that, Chris? I did know that. Do you subscribe on iTunes or Stitcher? It's part of the watch, so I just get it automatically. Yes. By the way, guys, that wasn't an ad read.

That was just natural. Phoebe Waller Bridge is an actor. She's 31 years old from England. I have to be honest, I had never heard of her until I started watching the Amazon series Fleabag, which she wrote, created stars in. It's one of the best TV shows of the year. It is absolutely stunning because it's one of those shows where you watch two episodes and you're like, I get it. I see what this is.

It is a bawdy, slice of life, modern sort of the foibles of the romantic woman comedy. And it's very funny. And she breaks the fourth wall and she's a very engaging and sly performer. And then you keep watching it and you keep watching it. And your jaw starts dropping. And the emoji you used to describe it starts changing dramatically. And it is a very, very dark, very wrenching show. And she did all of this herself in a way, you know,

in a pure a tourist way. Not all of herself. She wouldn't say that. I mean, they're great co-stars in it as well. And obviously she has, she's directing a director and people work with her on it. But it is, it is an altruist voice in a way that is really awesome. And all of that, in addition to the fact that Fleabag, which is based on a one-woman show she did, and should I say, this is not an ad read either. You can watch all six episodes on Amazon Prime if you got it.

She did all this in the same year that she made a completely other TV show. Which I actually liked quite a bit. Crashing. Exactly. She made a much more conventional British sitcom called crashing. And the story behind that being, you know, she told the story on the podcast, but I'll do a quick version of it. She wrote the spec script for crashing a bunch of years ago, the channel that bought it, bought it, and then put it at the bottom of the pile. When Fleabag started to pop off, the channel that owned crashing was like, guess what?

We're rushing this to series. So she had to write all six episodes of crashing, star in them, and then do Fleabag bag all in one year. which is both a testament to her brilliance and a testament to the insanity of the British television industry. And she capped off the year by announcing her plans to adapt a crime story, a crime novel called Killing Eve, which is basically, at least from the log line of it, it's about a woman reading a book. Yes. No, that's just a callback. Daytime animals.

It's daytime animals. No, it strikes me as a what we've come to love, the British crime procedural. but in this case, both the cop and the criminal are women. And I'm in. I'm in. I love it when these people come out of nowhere, man, and they get a chance to write and show what they got. I'm going to keep it British.

We're really, like, we're Brexiting, man. Like, what's up at this? This is, I want to shout out. Listen, we had a stressful year, but they did too. I feel like they need to be on the wall. I want to talk about... We're all building walls. I want to talk about the Kyle Schwerber of this shit.

The dude who just comes off the bench and inspires people and then is like, thanks for playing, I'm out, is Ray Fines. Look, sound your faces. I'm sorry I should have warned you. Wow, this is a wild choice for 2016. Ray Fines was in two movies this year, and I think in the sort of,

let's say, roughly four hour long runtime of a bigger splash and Hail Caesar, I think he's on screen for, say, 25 minutes. He's probably in a lot of bigger splash, but in Hale Cesar, he's in like two scenes, basically. Hebring brought me more joy than any other performer in those two scenes. There's a scene in a bigger splash where he just dances to emotional rescue by the Rolling Stones. He had done some production work, I believe, on Tattoo You, and he was talking about his character in the movie. If you haven't seen a bigger splash, just really check it out.

It's basically a sorted thriller set on a Greek island. among like a sort of Bowie-esque female rock singer played by Tilda Swinton, who's like basically like being reclusive with her beautiful recovering addict photographer boyfriend played by Matthias Schoenhardt. And then her ex, a producer played by Ray Fine, shows up with someone he claims is his daughter

played by Dakota Johnson, but they are very close in a way that's sort of odd. but it's just it's a great movie and and so he's in that he plays this rock producer he's incredible it's unlike any performance you really have seen from him if you're used to him playing this sort of buttoned up British guy and then in Hail Caesar he pretty much plays like this I don't know George Cucor uh style character who's just directing um comedies of manners and he has to explain to Alden Aaron Rick who's a Texan how to say this like British dialogue. Say your line

exactly as I'm about to. Okay, sure. Would the teutre so simple? Would the teut so simple? Would the teut so simple? Would the teut so simple? Watch my mouth. And it is like probably the funniest scene of the year. So Reif finds it's been a favorite of mine for a long time.

English patient, Constant Gardner. I love him even as M or not even M in the Bond films that he's been in. He's just done such great work. He's probably the best West Anderson actor out there right now? Look, the thing about Ray Fines is that, like, you get the feeling that you look at a film set,

you look at a cast, and there are a bunch of people who are, like, good actors, or, you know, they're heartfelt performers or they have a certain charisma. He shows up and he's like, hi, I'm a neurosurgeon. Get the fuck out of my operating room. Like, he literally is doing this at a higher level than anyone else. Like, Hail Caesar, you are completely

right. His P.E.R. in that movie is completely off the charts. He's in two scenes. They are probably the funniest scenes in the movie. And they're funny with a technical precision that is almost incomprehensible the way that he does it. And shouts to Alden-Ehran for holding his own and just becoming a great big shining star in that movie because he truly does. But the fact that Ray Fines can just do this, he can just show up and do that and have that sense of fun. And, by the way, and still be in our hearts and minds, despite having a run, a wallworthy run in 2007, where the most he was being talked about was in daily mail headlines like, exclusive how I led Ray Fines astray at 35,000 feet, or air stewardess, colon, secrets of my five mile high sex romp with Ray Fines. But you got it, you got to take that. The doctor is in, is what I'm saying.

You have to examine the sample size there. We're talking about British actors. We're talking about Jude, the babysitter. law and Hugh Los Angeles streets grant. Okay? Like these guys do their thing. And I'm not saying I approve or disapprove, but don't bring up 07 on fines, man. Because clearly he's making up for it with quality IMDB work.

I'm just looking at this IMDB now. I mean, it's pretty much unstoppable. I mean, if you're giving it to him for this year, but this is, this is, you don't want to say it's a career reward. Has it been a century of fines? I mean, in Bruges was 08, man. So in Bruges was kind of coming off that mile-high sex rome. And we're not even talking Harry Potter.

I don't even know your name, Harry Potter. I've never even seen one of those movies. All I know is I think he doesn't even have a nose in those movies, and he's still good. So, look, I mean, I'm with you. I'm a thousand percent with you, and we're not going to talk about Made in Manhattan. We're just not going to talk about it. Hey, Andy, let's just take a quick break before we get to the next person on the wall to hear from our sponsors. Hey guys, just want to take a quick second to talk to you about Capital One.

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Availability depends on the presence of credit history from TransUnion, credit-wise is offered by Capital One Bank USA. Let's talk about one of our favorite shows in the year and its creator. Yeah, on my wall this year, I think you should be on everyone's wall, is Donald Glover. Donald Glover created Atlanta. Can I get a kid's meal? I don't see no kids. Yeah, I don't have a kid with me. I'm going to eat it.

Well, only a kid can order a kid's meal. That's not true. Atlanta, in my mind, I think your mind, too, is the best TV show of 2016. It is a show that completely rejiggered my brain as to what was even possible on TV. It made me more excited and exhilarated and thrilled with the art form than just about anything else in a very, very, very long time. And considering the fact that he did this himself, I mean, we talked to Nick Radd, who's president of original programming at FX and on the podcast earlier in the year. and Nick told us that like Donald was basically like, I got this. Like I don't want a writer's room, rent me a house, and I'll have my friends be my writers,

and we'll build a studio in it so we can record paper boy tracks, and don't worry about it. I'm going to hire my guy, Hero Marai, who directs music videos. He'll direct this. He's never done TV before, and we got this. This should have gone wrong in a million different ways, but instead he created something absolutely thrilling. And that's incredible. Then you add to the fact that he already had a perfectly fine career. I mean, this dude wrote for 30 Rock.

This dude wrote Werewolf Bar Mitzvah. He's already a legend. He was on community where he's very funny, and he walked away from it because he wanted to do something more artistic or more lasting or more his own. And that's a risky move, which is worthy of respect. But the fact that he made this show in this moment and then got cast as Lando Calrissian on top of it. And made a-a-badelic record. Now, I want everyone out there to understand all this praise I'm lavishing on Donald Lover, the writer-actor performer. I am withholding it for Donald Glover the musician.

Yeah. You can't be great at everything, and I have never really been a fan of his rapping. My computer wrote something about him when Awakey My Love, the Childish Gambino record came out earlier in December. And I thought he set it up really well. And it's easy to be, it's easy to throw around superlatives, and especially when you have a polymath, like Glover,

who's doing a bunch of different things, and it doesn't, at least recently, I mean, I'm not like a big fan of early childish Gambino rap stuff, but at least recently just doesn't seem to be able to do anything wrong. But I think that what Micah got at was really cool

is that it's not about like genius or the superlatives with Glover. It's like he's brave. He's just brave. He's just willing to try something else often at the expense of what people would expect

in, you know, like you would expect he's coming off community he should just get his own NBC sitcom, right? He's written for 30 Rock. He's been on community. Just do the Donald Glover. lover show and have that and be great at that but no he wants to try something else and then it's like

in the middle of this Atlanta run and getting cast as Lando and you think oh this guy the world's oyster what's he want to do now he's gonna make a 70s funk record that he premiered in Joshua tree in a festival that he headlined or was the only act at and you couldn't bring your phone to I mean this I just it's just been a really really really good year for dollar go I I just think it's important that like it's kind of almost more important to me that I don't like something that he does but it's pretty cool that he's doing it you know I think that that's that spirit that he's taking the chances taking the risks and it does in apparently not really caring where it all lands and I don't mean that because he hasn't personally pleased me with his P-Funk album I just mean that he's not worried

about it and however he got to this point where he's free like that God bless him because I'm excited to see what comes next and even if I don't like it I'm excited to see what comes after that. My last wall nominee or my last wall inductee for this year is kind of an obvious one. It's not a lot of controversy

here, but I got to give it to Ryan Goslin. City of stars, are you shining just for me? There's so much that I can't see. Wow, see, before you go any further, you know, Chris, you,

You tip me off as to your wall earlier, and I mentioned it to someone in passing. And this person said that to her, Ryan Gosling is the R-S-T-L-N-N-E of this game. Like, Ryan Gosling is already on the wall before we even unveiled it. Right. So I'm just setting you up here. I want you to make the case as to why he gets one of these precious spots. He's just is the most charming actor working right now. And I think next year and in some future projects that he has, like Blade Runner 2049, it's coming out next year directed by our boy, Denis Villeneuve.

It's going to be, there are going to be some different performances. But this was the year that Ryan Gosling decided to do what DiCaprio has refused to do for like 25 years, which is just blow people's minds with how frigging he is. In nice guys, he plays this down on his luck, you know, alcoholic private detective. who's a single father living in the Hollywood Hills in the 70s in Los Angeles and teams up with Russell Crow to find a missing girl. And it is a very like, narrative-wise, the movie is like impossible to chart and it has its problems or whatever. But if you just want like a cool hangout movie, I really don't know if there's a better movie this year to watch than that. It's so funny and Gosling is so amazing in it.

And then in La La Land, he pretty much is like, X'd out my boy Miles Teller's career. Miles Teller was supposed to play the Sebastian character in La La Land, and for a variety of reasons, Gosling wound up doing it. And now it's kind of like, can you imagine being like, yeah, that was supposed to be me? I could have been a contender, like, watching that.

Gosling sings and dances in that movie. It's funny, in both of those movies, they're both set in L.A., he at one point wears a Dodgers hat, and it does make me think that he should make like a Steve Sacks movie. Like he, Ryan Gosling should just make like an 80s Dodgers movie. I think that would be really good actually. Anyway, he's just, he's doing really, I've just really always enjoyed him in anything he's in.

And it's very rare to find somebody who has such a universal approval rating. I know people like Chris Pratt a lot, but like this is like if Chris Pratt wasn't in a movie with a bunch of green people. You know, like, it's just... But it's also, and correct me if I'm wrong about this, and I don't mean to cast any aspersions on Mr. Gosling in IRL, but I don't get the sense that he is this just completely charming, ready to play along, ready to sing and dance guy off camera, right? Like, Chris Pratt is Chris Pratt all the time.

I've met him, I've interviewed him, he's lovely, he's lovely on Instagram, he's lovely in movies, and, you know, and that's terrific. I really enjoy watching him. But I don't get the sense that Gosling is just Is that dude? So in a weird way, it's like He seems like he has a pretty cool life And he seems like a chill guy I'm sure he's got a great life

And he's a chill guy I don't mean to say he's an asshole But I mean, he does seem to have this thing That just lights up when he does When he's in movies And it's pretty amazing that he actually You know, steers into that Do you have a favorite Ryan Gosling performance?

I mean, I love a drive Yeah But do you know what he's also You know what he's also amazing in Is the truly awful movie Crazy Stupid Love Yeah. Like him,

and Emma Stone in that too, they're together in that too. They are both just like firecrackers in a sea of garbage. I mean, it's such a bad movie. And he's so wonderful in it. You just kind of want to watch. The scene,

there's one long scene in that movie where I think they go on a date or something, and that should have been its own movie or a great short film. He's, you always want to watch him. I'm with you. I wish we were being more contentious here,

but we agree. And he's got rich. Like, I mean, he's great in place, Beyond the Pines and I really can't wait for him for Blade Runner. It's one of like my most anticipated movies for next year. We should wrap up with your final one.

Andy, like when you told me this, I was like, I called my dear friend Tim Cook. And I said, bro, whatever the OS I just downloaded, it broke my phone because my friend Andy when he was nominating his guy, this was people for the wall this year. I think something got messed up in translation. Listen. But then when you explained it to me, I was like, of course. Listen. Let's be real here.

Let's talk about this abstract concept of the wall. Let's just talk about what is greatness. And I feel like greatness isn't an obvious thing always. Greatness is the ability to change and shape reality without people even realizing it's happening. And that is why the last spot, in my mind, the biggest spot, I'm not kidding. He was my first pick. We're just doing this last to be dramatic. Is the God, Detective Ray from Law and Order Benjamin Brad. Now, Benjamin Brad, you say he's 52 years old. He's an Adonis. That's great. Everyone loves him.

Why are you picking him? And it's because this is the year everyone, I think, started to notice Benjamin Brad hiding in plain sight as that dude. And there's only one word to sum up what it means to be that dude. And that word. And that dude's name is Pangborn. Jonathan Pangborn. Who were you? Paralyze from the mid-chested down, partial paralysis in both hands. I don't know you. I'm Steven Strange.

I'm a neurosurgeon. Now, we talked a little bit about this when we reviewed Dr. Strange a couple weeks ago, but I don't think we did this justice. I think we need to talk about the fact that Dr. Strange begins with Benedict Cumberbatch and his hands hurt, and Rachel McAdams is frustrated, and she's buying him groceries, and he's searching, he's searching for something mystical. And his physical aid is just like,

listen, I did hear some crazy shit once. Answer me this. Have you ever known anyone with nerve damage this severe to do this and actually recover? One guy, yeah. Factory accident, broke his back. He came in three times a week, and then one day he stopped coming.

Thought he was dead. A few years later, he walked past me on the street. What? Yeah, what? Bullshit. He's like, there's a day laborer. He basically describes, he basically describes some like, some, some like galute. I'm picturing like an extra from the honeymooners.

He's like, there's a dude who bends steel in the shipyards. Yeah, it's like, it's like, went on a quest. The thinking man, Dan Loria is up in there, you know? He's like, his name is Jonathan Pangborn. I'm like, God damn, that's a name and a half. Like, what's this going to be? Who is this, who is this character going to, what's he going to look like? What's he going to?

What's he going to mean to Dr. Strange's journey? And where does Benedict go? Tibet? Eventually, yes, but not right away. First, he just goes uptown to a pickup basketball game where he runs into Benjamin fucking Brat. And Benjamin Brad's first line, and I'm paraphrasing here, is something like, hold up, bro.

And he tosses the ball away. And then Benedict Cumberbatch is like, you had a something, something nonsense in your spine. That's impossible. And he's just like, yeah, well, maybe I got better. And then he says something like, pass me the rock. Like he's constantly yelling over his shoulder to maintain his involvement in the game. By the way, he looks amazing.

He's handsome and he's charismatic. And he's only there for what is the screen time? Four minutes? Is that generous? Not even four minutes. Because most of that scene is still cutaways to Cumberbatch. And to the basketball game. Yeah, to the dudes be like, Pangborn!

You ready to get this run, son? And Pangborn, are you in or you out? And my whole point about this is. Then Dr. Strange goes to bed and he becomes the Sorcerer Supreme and blah, blah, blah, and that's great. And I'm like, boy, that was just a weird thing. But what a cool paycheck for Benjamin Brat to be like, I'm Benjamin Brat. Marvel called and they want me to play a role in Dr. Strange. And I was like, bet I'll just go put on my tearaway pants that I own anyway and just be ready.

And then here's the thing, though, he comes back in the post-credit sequence. And then if you Google Pangborn, which I did, because I was like, this has to be a deep homage. This has to be a tribute to some beloved cult Marvel character that figures, and there's an article that pops up, is Pangborn in the Doctor Strange comics? Question mark. The character could be the key to future films. I can't believe that. I mean, although it would make sense as to why Benjamin Bratt was doing this. Chris, I'm like, Pangborn is an infinity stone.

You know what I mean? Like, he is longevity, because Benjamin Bratt. looks like a Greek god. The truth is you read this, nah, he's not in the comics. Maybe the name, maybe, he's not at all. Maybe, maybe someone invented the name, maybe Dan Harmon, who I just found out

joined the set of Dr. Strange for reshoots for gags and laughs, I guess. Maybe he came up with the name Pangborn. It has nothing to, it's completely irrelevant. They just needed a little bit of, they needed a sprinkling a brat in this movie. Pangborn sounds like something like Seth Rogan and Paul Rudd

would say to each other. Like, Pangborn. they were insulting each other in knocked up. No, it's the sound they make when they give each other pink eye. You know, like that's what Pangborn is. Benjamin Bratt ends the year by being in the main cast of Lee Daniel's new show on Fox, Star. And here in Los Angeles, I'm sure you've seen it, there are posters for Star, and you know that Lee Daniels, you know, he likes big splashy things.

He likes big images. And so there's a poster, and it says Latifah. And there's one that says Naomi Campbell. And there's one that says Tyrese. And you know those one that says B Brad. Pangborn. And he plays a character named Jaliel.

Like, this, he is a god. And I'm just so thrilled with him. Because we, you and I have spent this year, and we'll probably spend a lot of next year. And the year after that, talking about how formulaic and stayed the Marvel movies are. But they will always, always be worth it to me when they can,

when they can just pull starlight from the sky like this and give us Pangborn. I want Pangborn. I want more. I can't think of a better way to end the year, Andy. As always, it has been a pleasure podcasting with you. I can't wait to do it again next year. Until then, man. Happy New Year, Beretsky!

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