The Watch - Ep. 110: ‘Coachella,’ ‘The Golden Globes,’ and ‘Homeland’

Episode Date: January 6, 2017

The Ringer’s Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald run through the newly revealed lineup for Coachella and pick their favorite non-headliners (2:05). They also preview the categories and nominees for this weekend's Golden Globes (12:10) and discuss the return of ‘Homeland’ (34:45). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I'm an editor at the ringer.com and joining me on the other line. He took a pill in Indio just to show Ovecci. He was cool. It's Andy Greenwald. Chris, I take a pill every day, sometimes more than one for the same reasons. I know.

We're just talking about clareton. Just trying to clear out the sinuses. Nah, nah, you know, I'm on that Zantak life these days. That's how real it gets. Andy, welcome to the re-up. This is a podcast about popular culture told from the perspective. Chris. Yeah?

Five years into doing this, happy anniversary, by the way. I'm glad you finally clarified what this podcast is about. I know. I'm pretty psyched, actually. I've been wondering. Today we're talking about the announcement of the Cochella Valley Music and Arts Festival lineup, which was announced this week. It's a concert festival that Andy and I will not be attending.

I can save me a same. Can I also jump in, just quick thought? A little light on the arts this year. A little light on the arts. Yeah, well, we don't know. Pretty heavy on the music. They didn't post the artists, just the musicians. And then Andy and I are going to also talk a little bit about the Golden Globes, which

coming this Sunday. You will be able to watch Andy and I chit-chat our way through the Golden Globes after the show. We're going to do another after show like we did for the Emmys. We'll be joined by Amanda Dobbins and Julia Littman from Jam Session. Yes, finally. So that'll be a cool crossover. That should be fun. And then at the end, we are going to talk a little bit about.

the premiere of season six of Homeland, which is now available to watch on showtime anytime you can just go and check it out. But Andy, let's first talk about three days in the desert that will be filled with tons of good music and minus two dudes from Philadelphia, meaning us. This just seems like a great time, man. But it's just not what I'm going to have.

Yeah, I mean, well, first, we could talk about this two ways. We could be, you know, the dispassionate arbiter of critical cultural opinion that we are. Or we could just do like a hot 10 minutes on all the reasons we're not going. No, I have a... Well, here's what I want to do with you. I thought maybe we could do the Cochella draft. So basically, we're going to go through this.

You're looking at the listing. I'm looking at the listing. We're going to do you pick, I pick, five each. And we're going to put together our best line up here. So I'm going to give you... I was not prepared for that. I know, but like, you know, you can... You can...

You do groundling. and stuff like that, right? Like, you're into improv. You know I did sketch, the Superior Comedy. You know that. You attended the show. It's true. Anyway, listen, can I make a quick overview note about this?

I love it when you come in macro and just set the scene. I want to set the scene for you. Okay, imagine a 108-degree day in a dust bowl. Yeah. Okay? No. The most striking thing, there were two really striking things about this lineup. to me. One is that it was, it's very top heavy. It's very exciting at the top of the ticket. Like,

the, the, the headliners are amazing. And it was kind of nice to see that they could still swing really big, relatively young acts. Because, you know, for a couple of years running, they seem to be leaning pretty heavily on the nostalgia factor with Guns and Roses and like ACDC had a big slot, right? Yeah. And when they went all in on with old cello, with desert trip, I wonder if that sort of split their booking process or something to a degree. So I was impressed by that. But two, the other thing that I was really struck by, and I don't think this is just because I'm an extremely old person

who has no interest in going to the desert, it's very, very, very, very electronica heavy on the bottom of the ticket. Yeah, it's definitely, it's friends of Molly will enjoy this. Yeah, which honestly is just smart booking for two reasons. One, because I have to imagine some of these dudes are a little bit cheaper than paying for like full bands to fly out set up. But two, that's kind of what you want to listen to if you're going to be on drugs in a field,

right? I mean, I don't know. I'm not speaking, I'm not using eye statements here, but is that a correct assumption? I think so. I mean, I don't know about that. As far as the fee that it would cost, like, I'm not sure does, like, say who's, who's like a big dance act on this thing? Or not even a big one. Don't, don't put me on the spot, you bastard. Well, I'm just saying, like, how much can guided by voices ask for anymore? Yeah, well, that's I think they asked for a cooler, of course, you know, and then got that.

Okay, so let's go through this. Who's your number one draft pick? You want me to go first? Yeah. The best act here on the whole list? Not necessarily the best. The one that you're saying if I was going to go out into the middle of the California desert

and I was going to spend three days there or even just a day there because we're just saying 10 artists. Who's the person that you most want to see? Can I ask for, you know, You know, I like to kind of tinker with the rules a little bit of these very straightforward exercises. Sure. I don't know there's a, I mean, this is the one year where I would say this, I think. But like the three headliners, Radiohead, Beyonce, and Kendrick Lamar have to go one, two, three in the draft.

Yeah. This is a very clear cut year. I would see that. So can we make them the... You pick Radiohead, I pick Beyonce, you pick Kendrick. So... But let's just make them the RSTL and E of this Wheel of Fortune game. Like they're already on the board.

Okay. So we get to pick people deeper, deeper, deeper. were down. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So what would your first pick be aside from the headliners? Damn. See, the problem is you probably have an amazing pick here. I don't. I'm just going to be, listen, listen, this is the re-up, right? This is a podcast about pop culture, apparently. It's looser. So obviously my five picks are all going to be Hans Zimmer. No, I'm going to pick. I just like to vibe on cinematic, cinematic mellotron. I'm going to pick new order. Chris.

Okay. I would go to a desert at sunset to pick New Order. Now, in my fantasy world, or at least in my drug-induced haze, Peter Hook is still a member of New Order. So those high baselines are still roaring out through the desert night. Yeah. But that's who I pick first. Yeah.

I knew you were going to pick that. I am going to go future for my next one, just because I think that the best, the future greatest hits set or whatever is just, it's kind of like all-case. killer, no filler. And I really enjoy seeing that. So we have Radiohead, Beyonce, Kendrick, off the board. Then we go, New Order, Future. Who's your next one? Hmm. Right now, in January of the year 2017, in the fading fortnight of American democracy, I'm going to pick Schoolboy Q. Okay. Because I'm looking at this, and there are many people that I would like to see, but I'm really, really like School Boy Q's last

album and I would be actively excited to see him, especially in an enormous field. I feel like that would be, I have no way of knowing if he puts on a good show or not, because there's some rappers who do and some rappers who don't, but I like that idea. I'm going to go King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard Wizard because I've never heard of them, and I don't even know what that is, but Kevin O'Connor, one of our writers, one of our basketball writers, was just like ecstatic that King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard were playing. And I was like, all right, man. So I just want to be a part of that.

I want to be part of that King Gizzard lifestyle. That's the same reason. My next pick is Taco Cat. Because I like both those things. Is that a real thing here? Yeah, go real deep into the tiny font. It gets weird down there. Okay, King Gizzard and Taco Cat.

I'm going to go with Father John Misty because maybe he'll say something insane. And also, I just love his music. Pass. Okay. I'm no longer attending your festival. I'm going to go with the... XX. Because I am really feeling

the new music from them. I've heard wonderful things about their concerts when they are in intimate venues. This is the opposite of that. It's the opposite of that. But I'm curious. Somebody did like a guest star appearance on modern family, like suffering from dehydration. Yeah. With with with with with with with cam from family vomiting Zima on my converse. Yeah. It's it's it's really a dream. Um, no. But I also pick new order and I sort of contradicted the very first thing I said on this podcast, which I've definitely never done before. Just to be like, I want to see something more recent, something new, something that I'm actually excited to hear live.

Okay, I would go with, here. I've been listening to them a lot recently, so I know that this is not the most inspired pick, but while they're still kicking, I'm going to go guided by voices. I was wondering, I was wondering if you were going to do it before I did. You know, a couple of things here. Guy of my voices have some really good songs. Yeah, you mean almost, almost all of the good songs they have. Yes. And the other thing is no matter who Bob Pollard is playing with currently as Guided By Voices,

they know how to play those songs really, really quickly and play a lot of them in a relatively short amount of time. Okay, one more for you, one more for me and we'll move on. One more. One more for me. You know, for similar reasons, I'm going to pick DJ Shadow. Interesting. Now, only because I'm trying to, like, I'm looking through this and, you know, I'm going to be honest with you, Chris, there are a lot of things here that I don't know what they are.

I assume that deep, deep into Sunday when Twin Peaks takes the stage, it will literally be a screening of season two episodes of the series. So we can all get caught up on what Windham Earl was up to before the show returns. You know, there's a band called Preoccupations that's playing. that's fine, but they're not getting me into the desert. DJ Shadow, especially those early singles and introducing, like I feel like that could be a really nice vibe that might for a second make me forget about the four hours of traffic I will be caught in as I try to drive to a Palm Springs home that I rented for like $10,000 for 20 minutes of sleep.

Right. My last pick is going to be Preservation Hall jazz band, just because they are incredible live. Yeah, they're really good. They're really good live. I love doing a podcast with you, David Simon. I really appreciate it. You know, jazz is one of America's great inventions, you know? It's true, Lizard Wizard, and here's the thing.

Like, looking at this, it's kind of interesting because at this point, Coachella has become, when we were in college, we used to, when we would spend too much money on, like, enemies and melody makers, we would, actively bemoan. We were young men then, but we still could bemoan the fact that there wasn't like a festival culture in this country the way there was in the UK with Glass and Berry and Tea in the Park and Redding. And we would look at these lineups in our, we would just die. We just could not believe all of these bands would be playing together because it seemed so impossible from American indie bands and Britpop bands and hip hop acts. So we have reached that point where

Coachella is just going to pack people in almost regardless of who's playing. It's the phenomenon. And we are now at an age where we are out on the phenomenon. But I feel like this year more than other years, it's wildly top-heavy. And they're really just betting on getting people into this field from, I don't know, 10 a.m. until 4 p.m. when all the other acts play based on the fact that it's Coachella. Do you agree with that? I agree with it. I think it's kind of an interesting lineup.

It's an interesting test case. Yeah. So that's going down in April, but much closer event on our horizon is the Golden Globes. Welcome to the Golden Globe Awards. This is the best of all award shows, because this is a lot of it. all the biggest stars from television and movies and music. It's a really fun party atmosphere. Can we stop all the talking?

Because right now you people are coming off like real buttholes, okay? I remember when the Golden Globes were just a joke. And I think that they are still regarded with a degree of cynicism within Hollywood. I mean, you would know better than I am now that you're part of the Skull and Cross Plo's society that is Hollywood. But I think that there's a degree of cynicism about it. That being said, it is often the most fun award. shows that we get to see on like a big mass television audience gets to see. I think there are some

other fun ones like independent spirit or whatever. But this is one where like people get lit and, you know, make some mistakes and make some, make some jokes. And it's going to be kind of interesting to see what's happening with a lot of the people who are going to win a war. This will be a lot of their like their biggest public platform since the election. And I do think that that will be interesting. Jimmy Fallon has talked about how Donald Trump is a fair game. So I do think it's sort of a weird Hollywood reunion after the election that we haven't gotten a chance to see any see yet.

And so that that's one reason to watch in case because I know that most people are very interested to hear what Casey Affleck has to say about the election. If we're not. But actually, the Golden Globes do set a little bit of a tone for how things are going to play out over the next month or so for the Oscars. So that's why we're kind of talking about it. We just got done kind of talking about a couple of movies. Earlier in the week, we talked about La La Land and 20th Century Women,

which are both Oscar contenders and are both in various forms nominated for Golden Globes. Do you want to say anything about the Globes big picture before we start looking at some of the nominees here? Yeah, I think that's well said. I think that in light of what you're saying, I think the choice of Jimmy Fallon as a host is disappointing. But even politics aside, I think it's particularly disappointing because one of the reasons, reasons the Golden Globes are low-key. The best award show is that they are the craziest. They are the strangest.

They are the ones people take the least seriously, even though they still take them pretty seriously. But most importantly, they are the drunkest by far. Like, people actually do get lit up at those tables. And it's been nice the last few years. I mean, the Ricky Jervais thing wasn't not my cup of tea. But when Amy Poller and Tina Fey were co-hosting, because they are so funny, and you kind of want to be watching them on a TV show anyway, particularly.

one where they're interacting with drunk celebrities. So I sort of wish they had hired someone more fun, you know, to do this. I mean, he's fun, believe me. He is capital letter of fun. I mean, there'll be a lot of like inflatable fat suits and flip cup and stuff. But I kind of wish there was a different kind of humor at the top of it. When you say it different kind of humor, do you wish it was Gordon or do you wish it was like Eddie Murphy? Well, don't we always wish it was Eddie Murphy? No, I mean, I wish it was a little more, I wish it was Chappelle, I mean, if we're being honest, but I wish it was someone a little more cutting, a little more able to take the air out of the room rather than pump more into it.

Particularly at this, in the context of what you're saying is this is like Hollywood Club meeting again for the first time after the election. There's sometimes a little bit of a cognitive dissonance between like what people expect. See, like I hear people be like, man, if we were really real, like the ghost of Bill Hicks would host this work show. And it's just like, do you really want that? Do you really want somebody who's just like, all you shit eaters out here? You know, like, I want somebody who's basically like, this is a carnival.

I am the circus master or the ringmaster or whatever. I'm not looking forward to Fallon, but that does neither here nor there. I think that a lot of, there will be a lot of comedy just in terms of who's in attendance and who could win. And I also think actually, and this is worth mentioning, one of the things we've said over the last couple of weeks is just how, even though La La Land has actually been sort of anointed, the first. runner, it's a very flat race. I don't think that anybody or any two movies have sort of separated themselves as the, are you team this or team that? And these are the two favorites. And because of that, something weird is going to happen this night that makes people sort of be like, I don't know what's going to happen. But the other thing is just speaking specifically to the point you just

raised, this year, the presumptive Oscar Best Picture Favorite is in the comedy musical category. which is not often the case, meaning the race to be the quote-unquote best drama, meaning the race to be the frontrunner to oppose La La Land is wide, wide open. And this show will do a lot to determine which movie that'll be, specifically whether it will be Manchester by the sea or be moonlight. But the other thing to remember going into the Golden Globes is that it's very much a bifurcated evening. Like the movie side of it is completely about Oscar campaigning,

Oscar jockeying, Oscar positioning, what this means going into the Oscars. In this sense, it's almost like a primary election. Yeah. The TV side is pure lulls. The TV side is hilarious and funny and crazy. The Golden Globes air when they air in January, and they tend to favor shows that either premiered last summer or premiered in the fall.

They like to get out in front of the Emmys and set the tone for the whole year and critical understanding of what's going to be in contention next year. They are also, it's important to remember, run by and voted on by, a shadowy cabal of easily manipulated international weirdos. Yeah. Now, I don't say that as a criticism.

Because, honestly, group think can be very, very dull. Group think, you know, if you look at like Critics Best of list, like the Uprocks list I contributed to, the top five were exactly what you would expect. Because when you take people who think about this stuff for a living and scratch their chins, like it's generally going to be what you think it's going to be, when you ask your weirdest friends, or if you do a critics poll and you only invite like Armand White and Richard Brody to participate, you're going to get some surprises. If you had money on one person being mentioned in the first two shows of our year,

would it have been Richard Brody if I'd asked you for that money in September? Yeah. Well, first of all, I just want to bet. I had a side bet going. Yeah, we're going to go deep into the film critic sphere this year. We're just going to start calling out people just basically professional siniest trolls, and we're going to sort of make them our cause-seleb for 2017. So jump on board now or jump off, basically.

That's what I'm saying. That's great. Nobody jump off. We need your, we need. Nobody, no, no, but really, but by a sonos, they're great. So, so anyway, we'll go through this category by category, but I just think that instead of the, I think, especially on the TV side, the randomness of this should absolutely be celebrated. it's going to confound you.

I mean, nobody thought something on the CW crazy ex-girlfriend would win awards last year, but this is what the Golden Globes do. And sometimes their weird European mindset, wherever they're from, actually gives the spotlight and attention to smaller things that deserve it. Yeah, I agree with you.

So let's go through some of the major categories, starting with Best Picture Drama. This is actually, you know, this is not very instructive for the best picture. because the Oscars does 10 best can go up to 10 best picture nominees it's difficult to divine a lot of sense out of this but Hacksaw Ridge, Hell or Highwater,

Lyon, Manchester by the Sea and Moonlight are all nominated who do you think should win out of those? I haven't watched Moonlight yet. I hope to remedy that before Sunday. My guess is I'm going to say Moonlight. I'm just going to go out there and think I think that I'm going to like it a lot

but that's not really a fair thing to say. So of these movies what I've seen, you know, I love Manchester. Chester by the sea. So that's one of those two is going to win and one of those two probably should win. Okay. So that's who you think is. I agree with you.

It's between those two, although I will mention that Hell or High Water is a dark horse in all these. And if Hell or High Water had been released in like November, I think it would have been pretty far, pretty high up there in terms of favorites. I can't wait. I can't wait to watch that sometime in the March-April zone. I actually, it's not like my favorite movie of the year. I just acknowledge the fact that it's actually, it's exceptionally well-made.

it seems like the kind of movie that would have slotted in better in award season, even though it did quite well at the box office for what it was. Chris, do you know that the guy who wrote that movie also wrote another movie? Do you know what the name of that movie was? Hmm. Let me think really.

Sicario! You couldn't resist. Best picture, comedy, or musical is 20th century woman, Deadpool, Florence, Foster, Jenkins, La La Land, and Sing Street. I have not seen Florence Foster Jenkins. I don't plan to remedy that by Sunday. Are you going to leave me out here all alone on Sing Street Island?

Yes. Is this where I am bury me here on Sing Street Island? Yes. I love Sing Street. Yeah, seriously bury me there. Do you not like Sing Street? Did you see it? Yeah, it's on Netflix.

I actually didn't know what it was. I thought that was the one to make a joke about. You really see movies? You want me to sell you on Sing Street right now? Isn't it, I assume because of the name, it's the guy from once made it. Yeah, but it's just the commitments with kids. Whoa. Like, wait.

Yeah. It's a bunch of kids in a tough Catholic school in Dublin who start a new wave band in the early 80s. Whoa. It's really good. I'm so glad I mentioned it. Yeah. Because I really want to see that now. Yeah.

Damn. Hey, can I ask you a question? Because I think that this is one thing. People have a lot of time on their hand, so they're really trying to come up with like, they're talking themselves into some things out there. Do you think that, do you remember seeing Deadpool? Do you like it? I did not see it.

Literally every person on every flight I took during after the Thrones was watching it. So I definitely, quote, saw it, end quote. And I'm fine with that. Okay. I'm fine with that level of engagement with it. I have no interest in it. I think Lala Lans obviously going to win this category,

but that does bring us to our, next category, which is, I'm going to jump ahead here a little bit. We can work our way back. Best actor comedy, I think that Ryan Reynolds might win. He is up against Colin Farrell for The Lobster, Ryan Gosling, who I think is the favorite for Lawland, Hugh Grant for Florence, Foster Jenkins,

Jonah Hill for War Dogs, which is just shoot your shot, Golden Globes. I love you. And Ryan Reynolds for Deadpool. I think Ryan Reynolds is going to win. I think Colin Farrell should win. The Lobster is a pretty amazing movie. He's absolutely incredible in it. I agree with

you. This is a, this is, this is, this is the, what do you say in sports gambling? This is the trap game. Yeah, right, right. Ryan Reynolds, especially, like, here's the thing that we don't know about that I wish we knew or I wish we could find out later. So much of the Golden Globes is, is based on schmoozing and whatever polite word we want to use for bribery. And if Ryan Reynolds, like, had a lunch at the Ivy for Golden Globe, or not he didn't do it, of course, but if 20th Century Fox had a lunch and and Globe voters came to the lunch and Ryan Reynolds happened to drop by and pose for pictures with them. Right. He wins.

Like, I just think that he wins. And that's generally, that is often how these things work. I don't mean to say that he isn't deserving, but often in categories like this that are wide open with no front necessarily, there's not necessarily a frontrunner, the most famous person who played the game the most will win. I agree with you. I think actually in a weird way, the best actress comedy is also kind of a wide open race. Emma Stone is the presumptive favorite for La La Land

and Annette Benning is right there, a 20th century woman. And then you always have Merrill Streep who seems to just get nominated no matter what movie she's in. But I think Haley Steinfeld from Edge of 17, it's like a real dark horse, but she actually would be a real curveball to throw and would make some sense in terms of like loosening up the sort of rigidity

of the way we're thinking about who's going to win what awards. I don't know if you got a chance to see that. That was actually a very delightful movie. I have the screener. forward to seeing it. James L. Brooks produced it. Yes. Yeah. That's how I heard about it. He talked about it on the Marin podcast. He was excited about working with this new filmmaker.

Emma Stone is going to win this. She is the Oscar favorite as well. And one other thing that the Golden Globes love to do is they love to get their hands on the new queen first. Yes. You know, it happened with Brie Larson. It happened. Anytime there is a young actress who is on the cusp, who is about

to be anointed, Jennifer Lawrence as well, the Globes love, love, love to basically give her her first platform to maybe even get the better speech, which sometimes happens. They want to annoy, they want to put the tiara on her head, give her the flowers and give her the mic. So it's going to be Emma Stone, which, by the way, a thousand percent deserved. Let's go through Best Actor Drama really quickly.

That's Casey Affleck, Manchester by the Sea, Joel Edgerton for loving, Andrew Garfield for Hacksaw Ridge, Vigo Mortensen for Captain Fantastic, Denzel Washington for fences. pretty much all the money on Casey Affleck, although I think Denzel could still get it. I think Casey Affleck is not going to win. I think that, you know, the tumult surrounding his past behavior

that has come out and, you know, created an interesting debate about double standards because of Nate Parker and Birth of a Nation and personal lives versus artistic lives and blah, blah, blah. I'm not going to weigh into any of that right now. I think Casey Affleck definitely deserves to be taken just a lot of life. on the value of his performance.

I think he deserves to win for this performance. I think that when you have a smaller sample size of voters, they're more responsive to trends and news and crazier things can happen, and I think that Denzel is going to win. Okay. That's a good shout. Best Actors' Drama, Amy Adams for a rival, Jessica Chastain for Miss Sloan.

No shit. Isabel Huper for L, Ruth Negah for loving Natalie Portman for Jackie. I think Amy Adams. Interesting one. I'm going to go to Amy Adams. I think that Arrival, I hope Arrival gets Oscar attention. I think, I thought that, see, this is the one, okay, so I thought that Natalie Portman would have a much wider lead. I thought that, did that movie, did Jackie even get a wide release?

Not yet. I think a bunch of this stuff is still like in the process of getting rolled out over the next couple of weeks in January. I think if you put it all together, you know, of Natalie Portman being an established star who has won before, especially in a biopic. from a beloved figure. This is also one of those cases where from everything I've heard she is the best thing in the movie. Not that the movie's bad,

I've heard it's quite good, but I've heard she's pretty exceptional in it. I kind of wish Ruth Nega had some heat, but I'm going to go Portman. Okay, I think Amy Adams. Let's scoot down to television categories and then we can move on a homeland. For Best TV series drama,

they got the Crown, Game of Thrones, Stranger Things, this is Us, Westworld. I am going to I'm going to say this is us not should win but I think could win I'm going to

I'm going to certainly agree with you look out of these nominees there's no world in which Game of Thrones shouldn't win Game of Thrones should win Yes Game of Thrones is not going to win Why don't you think so?

The reason why Game of Thrones This category has I mean anything is possible with the Golden Globes But this category, above all others, has proven how... This category has established a trend, which is that they reward something new. They get behind the new exciting thing. You know, Mr. Robot won right off of its freshman season.

The Affair one, which is crazy. You know, the Golden Globes got behind Breaking Bad before the Emmys did. That's right. So I think that weirdly Game of Thrones is almost the underdog in this category. I think it comes down to, I was about to say stranger things and this is us. I think the crown has an outside set too, because to remember, we don't know the age of these Golden Globe voters. So the crown is incredibly popular among a very specific set of viewers. And apparently it's done quite well.

I don't think either of us have watched it. I think that I would have put stranger things as the slight favorite. it, but to say this as us wins, first of all, the Golden Globes are on NBC. I'm not saying anything on tour is happening, but I'm definitely saying NBC made the stars of the show available to the Golden Globe voters and had an easier access to them. And they've done a very good job of putting forward the narrative. I mean, it's not like putting forward the narrative like it's fake news, but this is us and NBC have done a good job of being like the network television sensation.

Every once in a while, a show comes along, yada yada. And I just think that more people, I think just like more people have seen this as us than stranger things, man, right? Like, I mean, yeah, I think it's a very smart call. And I also think that this is, this could be the beginning of what is going to be an enormous groundswell of support for this is us to get nominated for Best Drama Series at the Emmys next year. Solely because of what it represents. Yes. Because I think last year was the first year where there wasn't a nominee from network television. It was all cable television. So I think this is fascinating to me, and I think you've called it potentially correctly. Okay. I'm going to ask you a series

of quick questions here to get through the rest of the TV stuff so we can move on. For Best TV Series, Comedy, and Musical, it's Atlanta Blackish, Mozart in the Jungle, transparent and Veep. Does Atlanta win? This is such a money category, by the way. Look at this category, except for Mozart in the Jungle, which in fucking bizarre a world won last year. It's really amazing. Okay, here are the reasons why Atlanta, very quickly, Atlanta should win.

You and I both think it was the best show on TV full stop in 2016. It fits the criteria we were discussing before. It is the new hot thing, and people should, you know, the Golden Globes would rally to get behind it. I don't think it's going to win. I don't think it's going to win because if you look at where these shows come from, there are two Amazon shows on this list. Amazon has more money than anyone else who makes television as a company.

And I'm not saying they bought Mozart in the Jungle's award. last year, I'm just saying they definitely made sure everyone in the voting body had access to Gail Garcia Bernal's beautiful face. Yes. So maybe transparent wins, maybe Mozart in the Jungle wins. I also, I have a

wrinkle for that, in the same way that you're kind of like, I wonder which Amazon show is going to win there. I think Night Manager might win Best TV miniseries. I don't, oh, I don't think so. Why do you think that? Because all their actors were nominated and because I have just seen a huge push for it around town a little bit and people versus OJ had its moment at the Emmys

in like a huge coronation way and I don't think enough people have like really got behind the night of even though I think it's the superior show of all these shows pretty much but the nightman I just have a feeling like the night manager is exactly the thing you're talking about with the crown where we don't really know who's voting on these things or why you have made a strong enough case to make me doubt what I thought was the easiest lock

of the evening, which was OJ. I mean, you could be right, but I could just see, it's just like late in the night and I could just see them be like, and the night manager. And people are like, oh, what did that just be? Oh, people versus OJ, that's weird. But it's not like a crime. People versus OJ Simpson, like, had basically an entire victory lap at the Emmys. So I just think it could happen.

Are there any other awards you wanted to talk about before we move on? Yeah, I just, like, in terms of what I was talking about, which is Amazon's outsized presence at these awards, keep an eye on Billy Bob Thornton, winning best actor in a television series drama for Goliath. Okay. I think stranger things have definitely happened. Even though I think Rami deserves it for Mr. Robot, best actress in a television series drama is really interesting.

Is this going to be the one where Claire Foy wins for the crown? Is that where the crown gets its gold? I see, I think this is going to be the category where they anoint someone. So it's either Claire Foy for the crown or Catriona Ball for Outlander. I kind of feel that coming. I have a weird, I think Winona could win. Winona definitely could win because we were actually, by mentioning that, you are bringing us back to one of the other key tenets of the globes,

which is they love celebrity, and they love to celebrate celebrity, and they love to see celebrity come back. You know, Mel Gibson is nominated, Mel Gibson's movie is nominated. Winona right, now that they did the same thing, by the way, love you, Winona forever. But letting her, even though she probably doesn't deserve this award, very strong chance she could win. All right, man.

And just so people know, just to remind you, we are going to be doing a live show on Sunday night from the Ringer Studios. We're broadcasting on Facebook live. After the Golden Globes, our post show will be joined by Amanda Dobbins and Julia Litman from Jam Session and the Ringer to kind of go over the winners and losers of the night.

It should be a lot of fun, so please tune in for that. We'll set out some social media messaging to remind you. This is one of the best feelings when we're doing this podcast, is those moments where you realize that TV, is back.

Like, TV will go away for a couple weeks. Like, obviously, over the holidays, a lot of shows going to hiatus for the winter break or whatever. And I think we got out of,

like, obviously last year was an almost impossible to make a good top 10 because there was so much stuff competing. You could make a top 30. Like you were saying, on Monday,

you made a, you participated in the Seppenwall poll and you wound up like having a really excellent all new shows list too. So it's been, obviously, where I forgot half of them. We're really surfing the wave,

but, It was really cool all of a sudden, like a day or two ago. I was just like, man, there's a lot of stuff to watch. This is awesome. And there's a lot of stuff coming out. We've got, obviously, the OA will keep talking about that. We've got Homeland, which is back, which I know we've derided, but we'll give a fair shot. Young Pope, big little lies.

Taboo. Taboo. You know, and so shows are, they're coming pretty fast and heavy right now. So it's an exciting time. Let's talk a little bit about Homeland. stops him it was right in front of my eyes my first note

my homeland season six is that Homeland has recommitted to jazz that was the first text I got from you about it it's a little known thing because like

you forget that the Homeland credits are very jazzy and don't they have like a picture of Coltrane or Miles Davis in them and like there was always this like deep association with Claire Daines's character is sort of like a live on stage at the blue note

piecing together. Yeah, because her thought processes were improvissatory, right? They were like free form, like America's greatest export. Right. So a lot of people probably think Homeland's passed its sell by date as a best show contender. It really did for, it's hard to remember, but for a season, it just really captivated people in a way that. was very exciting back then because it was sort of that mixture of pulp and prestige that we always are attracted to. And it's just gone on and on and on as Showtime shows sometimes tend to do. And now it is moved from Germany, which I thought last season had its ups and downs, but it was definitely an interesting setting and very timely. And now it's moved operations back to Brooklyn or back to New York City.

I think it's the first season. It's been set in New York City, correct? Yeah. And Kerry Matheson is working sort of at a nonprofit legal defense rights for Muslim immigrants in New York City who are facing, you know, charges of inciting terrorism and were just unfair prosecution from the government in America. And it's being funded by the German guy from the last season who's sort of the multimillionaire or the magnate who's funding all sorts of different political groups. and Saul and Dar are still out there kind of having backdoor meetings and meeting with a new president

played by Elizabeth Marvel who you may remember from trying to get Rachel Vice to kill herself in the Bourne legacy that was a great moment and... Wait, quick note here. Real life, she's married to Detective Box

from the night of. No way! Really? Camp and Elizabeth Marvel. Hollywood power couple. Those are New York stage luminaries. Second note, just shouts to Alex Gonson and the whole Homeland crew for their prescience

and making a series about the presidential transition of power with America's first female president. I feel like they just nailed it. People are really excited to see the inner workings of how that might have gone down. So this show is already... We're going to talk about this with spoilers since this episode is available on streaming

for most of you guys. So if you want to just wait to watch it and check it out and then come back to us, that's fine. But I was interested in how much that had been an issue for those guys because she's obviously like it's the first female president or it's a female president. I don't know if in the Homeland Universe is the first one.

But some of her takes on the intelligence services are slightly Trumpian if not in tone, at least in substance. I disagree with that. I would say they are much more left wing. I mean, she's dubious of every

of the entrenched power structure in a way that is kind of Trumpian, but she's basically like all your drone programs stop that. Let's pull out of these pointless foreign wars. which, you know, she's just basically, she's much more dovish than hawkish, which I wouldn't use to describe as, I would not use those words to describe. Well, I got the impression that some of her rhetoric is more like drain the swamp.

Why are we doing this? This seems like bloat. This doesn't seem efficient, that kind of thing, not necessarily. And that she obviously has, as is revealed over the course of the first episode, that those guys, the CIA seems to think that a lot of what's motivating her has to do with her son's death in after. Afghanistan, I believe. Let me say this. There is no show with which I have a more tortured and soap operatic relationship than Homeland. That was sort of the first show that I jumped on in the first season when I basically became the TV critic at Granland. I loved and champion the show. The show broke my heart, as it did many when it became, it just had some rough seasons, as everybody knows. It broke Damien Lewis's neck. It broke his neck. Broke the Washington Wizards. There were a lot of issues back then. But that was essentially a completely different show. And it has, to my total surprise, I think at this point,

absolutely successfully reinvented itself. And while I liked aspects of last season, I think we were high on it in the beginning and then a little bit less so as the season went on. This season premiere is the best episode of Homeland since season two, unequivocally. I thought it was surprisingly solid, surprisingly good. I thought that just by making a few key choices, changing the location,

putting carry on the other side of the ball completely, Meaning for a show that has gotten a lot of flack for basically propagating the image of Muslims around the world as terrorists or potential terrorists, this season she is defending people who may or may not be, who may just be religious, who may just have a different point of view. It's a small thing. It makes it seem like all of these conversations are binaries, which they're not. But it's just a gentler way into the show and one that I found very compelling. Point number two is that this episode looks fucking fantastic. Keith Gordon, veteran TV director and film director, but he's basically worked on your favorite shows. He directed on Fargo.

He's directed Homeland before. I don't know whether he had like a better crew in New York than he did in Germany or what, but the show looks visually sumptuous. I was really into the way it looked. New cast members, Elizabeth Marvel is really good. The kid who gets into some hot water in the first episode is very strong as well. But Chris, we're beating around the bush here for why we love the season so much. I know why I love the season so much.

You take, I'm passing you the rock now, dunk it. Because it's, they're suggesting this huge subplot that we could get into, which is Carrie Matheson, Airbnb landlord. So Carrie Matheson apparently has a duplex in Brooklyn, lovely place, but is basically a slum lord when it comes to the, the sublet that she has downstairs because she's like, oh yeah, the stove is on the fritz, just use the microwave.

That's not like a solution that can be, that's not like what you do with things that you need to heat up all the time. Maybe some of you don't want to use microwaves. I'd love to see the comments on Carrie Matheson's Airbnb profile. Yeah, she seemed like a really good landlord, except for when she was up at all all nights, listening to like Ornette Coleman

and putting yarn all over her living room. The clanking of empty bottles of Pino Grigio raining down on each other from upstairs kept me and my family up all night. She was constantly having her daughter taken out of her possession. Put back into her possession. Look, we're slow pitching this because we still want to talk about it. But I will say the one thing that's putting my opinions a little bit in check is the show's Achilles heel is still very much present, which is six seasons in. Homeland still thinks Carrie Matheson is the most irresistible woman on the planet. I don't mean like just romantically, but just professionally, just intellectually,

in terms of friendship and companionship, everybody wants to be in love with her, including the show. And it's just like, yo, we've watched the tapes. Yeah. Like the DVR is swollen with evidence of her being super bad at her job and crazy. And still, Otto jets in from Germany and is like, have dinner with me tonight. There is no woman in the world. Even if you, like, randomly, like, got set up on a blind date with Carrie Matheson or even found her on Tinder or whatever the deal was. And you were like, oh, it's cool.

Okay, Carrie, Carrey Matheson. Feels like that name rings a bell. Yeah, seriously. Just going to Google her really quick. Google it. And it's like, oh, yeah. Her boy, the father of her child was hung in Iran. That's crazy.

And then also, she was, like, somewhat responsible for the CIA building being blown to pieces. And her baby daddy is the biggest traitor in the history of the United fucking states, but by all means, rent out your basement room. Swipe right, my dude! But Carrie doesn't have to look too far for love because, you know, as we sort of watched over the season five, Homeland started, you know, steering into this idea of Carrie and Quinn, her assassin Paramour having kind of like a, there was a shipping deal going on there. But that came to a screeching halt when Quinn got poisoned in Germany with some sarin-type thing.

Yo, not just poison in Germany on live international television. Yeah, and then, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it like they get to the hospital and Quinn is sedated because he's got poison inside of him? And the doctors are like, yeah, you can't wake him up because he'll die. And Carrie's like, cool, cool, but I got to ask him a question. hit him with that adrenaline. Is that what happened or am I making that up? Yeah. They're like Quinn would have would have been cool with it and they wait Quinn up and he

looks at her and then he straight up vomits blood over everyone and essentially dies. It's like black oil. It's like just straight up, it's just straight up deep water horizon juice. And he's like some X-Files season five shit coming out of his body. And he doesn't give her any information. And then

so we're like, I think it's like suggested at the end of the season that he is no longer with us. But that not completely sold on that. And then obviously... No, but the bigger thing here is that Rupert Friend is back in the cast, doing, basically auditioning from my left foot, which more power to him. But the thing the show, the central flaw of the show is still the same,

which is in the beginning. And this whole Rupert, I mean, the whole Peter Quinn thing is compelling. He's really having a good time being in a terrible state. He's a good actor. I'm totally psyched about it. I love visits to elicit Brooklyn shooting parlors. It's just very, brings me back. You know what I mean?

But the biggest thing is this. The first scene she goes to visit him. We're told that she's been visiting him in the hospital every day. And his reaction to her is, get away from me right now. And she's like, you don't mean that. And the show is like, he doesn't mean that. Yeah, he totally means that.

But guess what? Everyone in the audience is like, yo, he means that. He's also worth pointing out that it's like they set it up as if Quinn is just like having this like dark, you know, existential crisis. But is, in fact, cashing his. his veterans checks to go get laid in a flop house and smoke ice. It's like he's not actually, it's not the, the problem isn't life. The problem is Carrie. It really is. But the show will never know that. But we've turned negative. I actually really enjoyed the episode. And I can't

believe I'm saying this, but I'm, I'm psyched to see more. I really am. It's a different show. It just works much better when it's an ensemble show and when they are playing a bunch of different perspectives outside of Carey's. If it's shot through Carey's perspective, you're just forced to confront the ridiculousness of this character too often, but Saul remains really interesting. And like you said, there's just enough things going on in the show. And I think that they've just paired it down and excised all the fat. And now it's just, it's just professional at what it does. It's good at being Homeland. Yeah, you said this, I think. It's best case scenario homeland. That's right. All right, Andy, so Sunday night, Golden Globes, live after the show,

the watch podcast on Monday will be the audio of that discussion with Amanda Dobbins, Julia Littman live. And then Thursday, next Thursday, we're going to be doing a little bit of some fall, some previews of shows that are coming the following weeks. We'll be talking about taboo. And I think we'll talk about Young Pope, maybe. I think, yeah, well, Taboo will have premiered by the time we do the show.

So we'll be able to talk about it with spoilers. And then we'll preview Young Pope. And we're psyched. There's a lot of stuff. Good TV. All right, man. I'll see your Coachella. Great job, Fransky.

Save me the Blue Pill. Thanks again to Colony for sponsoring us today. USA Network's original drama Colony is back for a second season. From the executive producer of Lost Carlton Cuse, Colony centers on a family who must fight to survive in a world that has been invaded by outside forces, but nothing can prepare them for what is to come. Don't miss the new season of Colony

premiering Thursday, January 12th at 10, 9 Central, only on USA.