The Watch - Ep. 70: 'Stranger Things,' 'Mr. Robot,' and 'You're the Worst' Re-up

Episode Date: September 2, 2016

Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald discuss Season 2 of 'Stranger Things,' and whether we'll get Barb back. Then, they talk about 'Mr. Robot' and the premiere of the third season of 'You're the Worst.' Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by Jaguar, the art of performance. To learn more about the all-new Jaguar XE, visit jaguarUSA.com. I need sports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now. Hello and welcome to The Watch Reup. My name is Chris Ryan. I am an editor for the wringer.com. And joining me on the other line, he wrote the book on Fem to Sell.

It's Andy Greenwald. I'm sitting right across from you. I'm not on the other line anymore. Sometimes, like, it just feels like that should be what I say. You know what I mean? You were saying that for four plus years. It's true. We have a lot of podcast hours on the odometer.

Well, but on the line. Yeah. And now I'm right here. Right in the studio. I'm sorry, Andy. I'm still getting used to it. It's kind of a bumpy start for this Rio. But we'll get through it.

Andy, we're going to do Stranger Things Season 2 news coming out. We're going to hit that really quickly. And then, of course, we're going to talk about last night's episode of Mr. Robot. And the season premiere, third season premiere. of you're the worst. It's TV season. So we're doing a quick pod today, re-up style, and then we're going to have another short pod next week,

next Tuesday, after Labor Day weekend. That's talking about a show that has quickly become incredibly special to us, which is Atlanta, FX's Atlanta, started and created by Donald Glover. I feel like people are feeling, maybe they're feeling a little melancholy as we hit into the last weekend of summer.

Don't be. Don't be, because the day after Labor Day, your new favorite show premieres. Yes. Let's talk quickly about what was many people's favorite show of the summer, which is Stranger Things. For a while there, it seemed like this was a limited series. Maybe it would be an anthology series. They would investigate Stephen King-like phenomena in different towns at different times.

Nope, these dudes all became memes, and they're all coming back. Stranger Things Season 2 has been around for 2017. It will pick up shortly after the first season. Apparently, this has come out. And add a couple of characters. they've released the titles for all the episodes. All nine episodes. And the first is Mad Max,

so we can see that we're still mining 80s pop culture. It's like a thing that these guys are going to be, it's going to be a major influence in the show. Let me say something here. Okay. I feel like I've been in Hollywood long enough to really help peel back the curtain. You know what I mean?

Like really let people in on how... Join me on the other line. I'm just saying like how the biz really works. You know what I mean? Like just consider my voice, Robert Evans, deep plush couch. So this is not Hollywood Fixer. This is more like a Hollywood curtain minder.

I'm just letting you know what's going on. I'm Danny DeVito in LA Confidential. This is hush, hush. Okay. What I want to be, that's not accurate. This second season has been in the works since before the first season debuted. I mean, the thing that I think we're still,

the way we cover TV is still trapped in a pre-streaming, pre-peak TV mindset, which is that we're gonna put this out there with our blood, sweat, and tears, and we're either gonna hope it does well enough for it to come back, or we're going to be operating on a network model where we'll make the decision in the spring. Sure. Those days are long gone.

Right. To keep the content pipeline flowing, these services basically have to employ their writer's rooms, their production designers, their cast under contract, basically throughout the year. They've also got the slightly volatile other element of kids get old. Well, right. They probably have to lock them down. They got to get these kids back in the mind. Billy Bobby Brown is only memeable for, well, but up 4.5 more years.

Well, no, but it's just like kids are going to hit puberty. Kids are going to, like, get six inches taller. It's a great point. Because there's one thing that 80s movies never talked about was kids going through puberty and how awkward that was. So they got again in all their stories before that. Everybody who knows Chung from Gooney had a huge growth spurt. You nailed it.

Yeah, he became lean. He was basically the, uh, he was the basis for Jack Sykma. So what I wanted to say was, this is, this is not a, surprise the Duffer Brothers doing all their interviews for season one. Obviously, they had to have been surprised by the enormous success of the show, but this was in the works for a long time. Otherwise, there is no way in hell they would have been able to get this on the air in 2017, which is essential for Netflix's plan and business model and et cetera. But what I wanted to say was, I love the fact that they announced the episode titles. This is usually not done. Like episode titles are usually throwaways or they follow a certain pattern. Like, remember every friend's episode was the one with whatever. I love that they take this really seriously, that they display them on screen. Grace Anatomy does song titles. Still? I think so.

I don't think there are 200 songs. I've never heard that many songs. That's crazy. That would be funny if they were like Slayers Angel of Death is. Actually, that would be a great-Graismatomy. Gray's Anatomy, someone can, maybe Isabella can check my math here. Gray's Anatomy has been on the air uninterrupted since 1991. I mean, that is a lot of song titles for them to use while killing doctors and plane crashes.

But, spoiler. Sorry. But what I wanted to say was, before we move on, it's so dope that they care about the episode titles this much. Because I think anyone who has ever dabbled in fiction or dabbled in making mixtapes, writing out the mixtapes or writing out chapter tales. Having a theme, yeah, for sure. It's half the fun.

Yeah. And it just, it continues, even though they haven't filmed anything yet, even though we won't see anything for over a year, it continues the good vibes that imbued this whole project, and I'm psyched. One thing I will keep a very sharp eye on is to what extent popular culture and social media influence the creative process. Do we get Barb back? What about Barb though? What about Barb Do?

Because that's what everybody is actually asking. You and I, we might be asking what about Buono dough, but what about Barb? Buono is caking up in the off season. She really is. You think Bono's kicking up? You think she goes in and she's like, I need Bwono to get a bonus. A bowness. Do you think that B-O-W-W-N-A-B-Woness?

I don't think she's caking up because I think we established in an earlier podcast. By the way, everything we say on this podcast is Bwono Canon. Yeah. I believe we established that she is married to a water magnet, and not magnet like he tracks water, like M-A-G-N-A-T-E, like a guy that, like founded one of these charity water companies. Really? So she, everything she has is liquid, is what I'm saying. That's very, very funny.

Let's move on to Mr. Robot, because we are trying to keep it moving today. Last night's episode was very, it was a little bit disorienting because I got the feeling like I was seeing something very important when there starts to be basically a glitch in Elliot, Mr. Robot's relationship. But I'm not quite sure if I could put my figure on, if somebody was like, please explain what happened on Mr. Robot last night. I think I would have a little bit of a hard time doing it. That being said, I do feel like my weird Hail Mary theory from a week or two ago that I still feel like there is another shoe to drop with the Christian Slater character and that Elliott could be a program of some sort or that Elliot himself is hackable.

That's still in play. I still like myself. I loved the glitch. I loved that. I mean, first of all, I want to say, I thought this was the best episode of the season running away. I thought the Alf stuff was the most outlandish, most funny, most creative thing of the season thus far. I thought this was the best episode of the season, purely as an episode of TV. I thought it was really entertaining.

It was really gripping. And, you know, conspiracy paranoia thrillers are dope. This entire, let's take a step back here. We got our protagonist back. And even if he's glitching out, he is now part of the action again. And once he's back in the fold, I care again. We care again. Right.

And once he's back in the fold, suddenly this show begins to come into focus and what's going on, which is this group of hackers, outcast hackers thought they changed the world, but they were pawns in a much bigger game that they don't understand, now they're being hunted by all sides. Once we are back in their heads being like, we know we did this,

we don't know what's going on, it's okay for the audience, I think, to feel like we don't know what's going on between White Rose and Philip Price and who's who with the FBI. Do you understand what phase two is? I don't understand what a femticell is. I've got to be honest with you.

I've been watching it. I googled that last night, and as I was Googling it, I was like, is this appropriate? Like, not actually because it sounds like it's like a porn genre. Where a woman turns into a mobile device. But it's because it was, I didn't want to get hacked. First of all, you were definitely hacked.

And I really, I think that you've made some interesting orders recently. Yeah. From femticell.org. Femtsel lawn gnomes.biz. So I just thought in terms of reshaping things, Putting us back into the basically putting us back into the narrative that we are comfortable with made a lot of sense You're skipping my question what is space two we don't know I mean face two is face two of the great Five-nine hack like basically what they're gonna do the global

economic global financial system. Okay, okay now know white rose Which is his idea which apparently is his idea We also know that white rose was essentially really really cares about the nuclear plant that killed that messed up all their lives that killed Angela's mother So that is a specific thing of interest. I think a couple things. Back to the conspiracy thing. The filmmaking is of such a high level this year that it's really entertaining,

especially with Portia Doubleday as the lead of these scenes because the way she is putting on this Ice Queen act, but she is so fragile, her face is so fragile in all these scenes. The scene when she went to the FBI led to one of my favorite, I wish everyone bit this scene from pop culture. It led to, when she was, walking down the hallway. That was a classic, Karen. Where you going, Karen? The coats are right

down here, Karen. Where you go in the coats, Karen? One of the great Goodfellists scenes. Yeah. Shot in beautiful, right near where you used to live, right where Carol Gardens becomes Red Hook. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Shot by Smith and Ninth. That is, that's just gold. That is always going to be gold scenes like that. So I really, really enjoyed the setup. I like the momentum back on the show. I think it's kind of interesting to think about the season as a whole now, what we now know what we've been through. And wonder, you know, one of the things that I was pushing for when I was trying to preach patience with the season was that it did not seem to be designed this year to be digested week to week. This was a particularly good weekly bite. But now that we've been through all those episodes

and we're not playing chess in his head anymore, the payoff of what happened, the basically, like, I'm filling you in on what happened montage, was just incredible filmmaking. It was awesome. That was very cool. Joy, badass was great. So here's one thing about...

Was it worth it, was what I was going to ask you. Well, so here's the thing that it's not at all a problem. It's just there's two different types of... There's two different ways of having a mystery in a show. There's a mystery that is a mystery to the character, and there's a mystery that's a mystery to the audience. And sometimes those two things can unite and sometimes they stay separate.

But I think that this show does dabble in both. And sometimes that can be a little bit confounding or frustrating, and sometimes it can be absolutely enriching. Like you just feel like you're so locked in. So having us not be able to hear what Darlene says to him when he walks out of prison was a little bit of sleight of hand. The lost in translation moment. Yeah, and all these who are at the door,

Who are at the doors, you know, like everybody, like there's the motif of someone knocking at the door and not knowing who's there is like, keeps coming up. But then there are things that are mysterious, like Elliot not understanding how he can be in the bathroom and also be in the living room at the same time, that are actually mysteries to the characters. And those are kind of the more interesting mysteries to me, I think, at this point in the run, but it's interesting to watch him balance those two things. All of long-form storytelling is a balancing act.

And, you know, it's a question of the creators having the right amount of patience for the reveals or for the story you want to tell. And often when you look at a season like this, it's not hard to take a step back and think about the creation of it and think about, you know, the conversations that were going on in the room about when to reveal certain things and what the payoff would be. And also maybe misjudging what the audience would enjoy and not enjoy. Meaning, you know, there had to have been a number of conversations about maybe he's been, maybe we've kept this going too long, maybe we need to reveal where Elliot really is, maybe we need to free him back into the main plot. And someone's saying, no, you know, I think what we have happening with with Dom, with Angela, with Darlene is worth it. I think this is just as equal, this is entertaining and it's going to pay off in the end. I think that the ratios were off. Yeah.

I think that probably this should have been revealed earlier to get the momentum going. But I do feel that, and I still mean, obviously I'm still a true believer, but I think that when we look back on the hopefully long run of the show, this will, the frustration that people had with the first six weeks of the second season are kind of a blip. No, I'm fascinated by it. I'm also fascinated by the fact that there is no Battle of the Bastards coming. There is no Walter versus Gus. A lot of the times in seasons, you kind of, you know where you're going to get to in eight episodes or ten episodes. You know, because they set it up. So obviously.

Well, the first season of Mr. Robo was set up for the hack. We were all headed towards one thing. Right, but I don't know where we're going, and that's very exciting. I do have one complaint, though. I just feel really remiss if I didn't register this, is that apparently no one in prison has ever watched the Houston Rockets play, because you're clog in the middle, okay? There's no cutting off the ball. Nobody's ever heard of pace in space and 3D.

Running to the corners, stretching the court, and there's just very little, there's just there's no movement that you're used to seeing. What I'm saying is, you don't know how long those guys have been behind bars. They might not know about the revolution. Detroit Bad Boy Pistons are the last ones they've watched. That's what I'm saying. They might not have paid any attention to EuroLeague. They may not understand about Biggs who can step out and shoot the three.

I know. To them, the Warriors are still a punchline. That would be amazing if Elliot was like, I just got to stop you for a second. Has anybody ever heard of a stretch for? This is what I'm saying. Have you guys never seen Chris Bosch play? I want to go on a limb and say, I don't think, Elliot's ever seen Chris Bosch play either.

But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm reading into it. Chris Bosch is into coding. Did you know that? He's into like wearing like coats. No, writing code. Oh, I thought it's like wearing elaborate coats. Code coding.

That's nice. Yeah. He's a big game of Thrones fan. Is he? Chris Bosch and Boardwalk Empire. We always say that like as if like we're like, did you know that this person likes Game of Thrones? You know what else he likes?

Oxygen. It kind of makes him an outlier in the world. Before we stop talking about Mr. Robot, we'd be remiss, I think, if we didn't mention the very appropriate shout at, I think, to one of the giants of the television for, Mr. Paul Reiser. How did you feel about that? Yeah, you know, it's been a whirlwind trip through sitcoms past on Mr. Robot this season. First of all, mad about you remains underrated.

Do you think so? Yeah, I think it was a consistently entertaining show, but it was entertaining in a... Was Will and Grace a mad about you spin-off? No, it was just another must-see TV show. Gotcha. Okay. They never spun off the John Pankow's character. You know, I feel like that was really the one who was raped. That was really raped for...

I just wanted him more about what... Wasn't he Cousin Ira? What about Pankow, though? Can you imagine, though? Like, the ultimate, like, just irrational confidence move would have been like Warren Littlefield at NBC being like green... If he just greenlit cousin Ira... Yeah.

At 9 p.m. on Thursdays, or 9.30 after Seinfeld and still would have gotten 20 million viewers. I got to say, next week, Hacking Robot returns. Can I do promo here? We're coming back live after the penultimate episode, but it's a little tricky. Yeah. There are three hours of Mr. Robot remaining. Okay.

Because the finale is being split into two episodes. Okay. So Wednesday, September 7th, live after show. It's going to be me, Sam, Portia, Buono. Puano. I'm sneaking her in in the Alf costume. You guys are not ready for this. Why can't Bono be Alf, though? She's fucking classical.

trained. I can't tell if we're like way too over committed to this. Like it isn't the housing market for us. We're like, it's all about new developments in southwestern Florida. And we could get burned as hard as the United States economy did. That is in no way hyperbolic. Romney will be there.

Christian will be there and Grace Gummer will be there. And yeah, we're going live from... What about Grace Gummer's Amazon robot? I'm going to... You know, I made a request but the cross-branding issues kind of make it probably impossible. But also, Alth might hump it.

They're about the same size. Okay, well, let me know if you need me to draw up some Tsar of the Telestrade or plays to illustrate. It would be amazing if we just, like, took a break from them. You had, like, one of those walk-on basketball sets that they have. I just came out, like, Tibado with a polo tucked into my track pants. You get a rip, a tear-away hoodie. Anyway, yeah, Wednesday, please check us out Hacking Robot after Mr. Robot next week, and then there are two episodes after that.

Very cool. Okay, let's take a quick break, and we will come back and talk about your worst. Hey guys, just want to tell you a little bit about our sponsor, texture. Thanks to pizza, we are all binge eating. Thanks to Netflix, we are all binge watching. But now, with texture, you can start binge reading. Trust me, it's about to be a thing. I recommend binge reading.

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content. Start binge reading for free right now when you go to texture.com slash watch. That's texture.com slash watch. I also want to tell you a little bit about Jaguar. We know it is a little rude to interrupt. But while we have your ear, let's have a brief conversation about manners. As the British like to say, manners makeeth the man. So it's no wonder that Jaguar's first ever compact sports fan, the Jaguar XE,

and their first ever performance SUV, the Jaguar F pace, are well-mannered. They both put you at ease the moment you enter. composed in almost any situation and know when to make themselves heard. For the full Jaguar Guide to Manners, please visit jaguarusa.com. Thank you, Jaguar. The Art of Performance. You were talking a little bit about the balancing act of television shows. All television shows are balancing acts. So are podcasts, for being honest. This one's teetering. Season three of You're the Worst, which premiered last night on Wednesday. On FXX. On FXX. That's a real network, by the way. They have a balancing act of their own to handle.

Now, not only do they have to deal with the very complicated idea of having hideous people be funny and engaging and creating a sense of audience empathy for characters, but they also are now ever so regularly, like, expanding the breadth of the show, bringing in more and more characters and spend more and more time with those characters. I love the show. I find it very funny. One of the funniest comedies on TV. I kind of wish it wasn't. I kind of sometimes just wish it was just Gretchen and Jimmy, though. I kind of do, I do feel like sometimes I get, it bugs me a little bit when shows go on in their seasons, and the only answer to the extended length is, let's just make it more about these tertiary characters.

They're all really good actors, they're all really funny people. But I do sometimes feel like I wish it was just more centrally about the couple. I mean, one of the things, TV shows, we said this earlier in the week, TV shows bend towards, becoming TV shows. And that is, you know, it's the same thing with Mr. Robot. The rest of the cast has to take on some of the burden, both creatively and to just physically spare the leads from having to carry all that way. Well, you just burned through too many plotlines, wouldn't you?

Right. I think that you're the worst, I mean, the first season of you're the worst, one of my favorite comedy seasons in recent memory, I think it is, what's so remarkable, remarkable about the show is, obviously the coverage often focuses on how bawdy the show is or how dirty and how much they drink or whatever. But Stephen Falk who created it, and his writers, never sell them out as people. There are always some emotional stakes to everything they do.

There's always some humanity beneath the dirty words in the morning whiskey. I think what he's doing, and I'm going to have a podcast with him at some point. Hopefully we'll do something with that cast here on The Watcher in some form. And we can talk about these things more explicitly. but the thing that I'm really thinking about with this show that I think is most impressive is I get the feeling that he knew, Stephen Falk knew that the first season

that had everything we're talking about, but also the spark of falling in love with someone because that's what it was about. And romantic sitcoms, romantic rom-coms, are so engaging because we're falling in love with people falling in love, and that's why they usually don't have sequels because they've already fallen in love, and then what? I think he understood that that season was not repeatable.

And so there was a choice to be made at that point. Either keep trying to repeat that, break them up, putting them back together, break them up, bring them back together, which is a very, you know, kind of dull and expected TV thing. Go in another direction, which is just make it bawder and dirtier, steer into the headlines, basically. Or the third choice, which I think kind of hasn't been done, which is accept that you're never going to make that season again,

and go deeper, and start and say, okay, if we care about these characters, and we're not going to break them up when we accept that as canon, then what we're going to do is slowly start to dissect what makes them this way. And that was last year, IACAS were so tremendous as Gretchen, as Gretchen, as Gretchen was dealing with depression in a way that I think a lot of people talked about. They'd never seen it portrayed on television. This year we're going deeper, and she's getting into therapy, and other stuff's going on with Jimmy.

You won't spoil too far ahead in the season. But I think it's pretty unique. And I admire the fact that it is not trying to repeat the first season because that was unrepeatable. Yeah, it's a real. I mean, the way you say it, when you put it that way, it's really, it makes a lot of sense. I just, it's difficult to maintain a consistency of tone across that many characters, and maybe it's not that important.

So that would bring us to, for anybody who's seen the first episode, a moment that, I guess, a fair amount of people have talked about on the internet today, Thursday, which is that the end of this first episode. I only just got internet, tell me about it. Well, the end of the first episode of You're the Worst ends with Lindsay, Catherine Donner, character stabbing her husband her husband in his side it's great drawing blood yeah yeah no

problems what would tell me what's the what's the what's the what's the hot takes like it's like that's pretty fucked up yeah yeah I thought it was pretty great yeah I mean I think that uh there's there's something to be said like I again I'm you know now that I'm a Hollywood insider I'm gonna throw this out there I would imagine that they were probably sitting in the room and they're like you know he's he's smothering her she's dying like what can she do and someone was like she could just stab him and everyone laughed and was like, no, seriously, what could she do? And then someone was like, on this show, she could do that. And then what would happen? And having seen the next episode, it's dealt with it in a pretty gnarly way. And I don't think the Lindsay Paul stuff is not

my favorite part of the show by any measure. But I thought that was a pretty bold, wild, and kind of true to the character moment. I think what you're saying is probably correct, which is the balance of the first season was very delicate, and that Gretchen and Jimmy were broad and bought as I said, but they were the normal ones where Edgar and Lindsay, the supporting characters, as often as the case of sitcoms, the supporting characters, are more cartoony. Last year, a lot of work was done to bring Edgar a little bit more into the fold. Lindsay remains in outer space, and that sometimes can throw things off. But it does lead to that next week there's an incredible scene with Lindsay and Gretchen and

Samira Wiley from Orange is the New Black who makes her first appearance as Gretchen's new therapist. So it's good having that third heat in there, but I agree. It's a tough balance. Yeah, because it's like if you start something like friends and it's like you're going to have it be six people, you kind of already have taught yourself how to watch that show. And different people can move into the center at different times. With this, I think it's so clearly about this unlove story between the two people. And you're right. Like how do you continue to maintain that level of intensity without just having them get together and break up and get together and break up and get together and get together and break up?

And also just keep it in the same setting of Tony, Silver Lake. Wouldn't the ninth season of Friends have been better if Phoebe had just stabbed Joey? You know what I mean? Like what if, what did they have to lose at that point? Yeah, I guess, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars. That they already had. I mean, they had that to lose. I just mean, it's, but to be clear, like, were people like, that's too far for this show,

like the politics of it or it just in terms of taking? you out of a moment because people don't stab people. I think it was the latter. I don't think people were like, let's, the problem with you're the worst, because there was like a hundred of everything you could point you to be like, the problem. These aren't good people.

Like, they're the worst, yeah. And I also actually think that generally on, there's been a decrease in the, like, let's take characters as literally as possible. And you're the worst is thumbs its nose at that all the time, because you can't take them literally. They are playing with types and they are playing with behaviors in a way that's not necessarily true to life. Next week we're going to start talking about Atlanta on FX.

And inevitably in that conversation, there's going to be, there's one of the themes to talk about is just how the half hour, I still think more than ever, is just much more interesting at this moment in TV history. And it's much more capable of reaching emotional depths and dramatic highs and et cetera, et cetera, while still also being funny. you're the worst isn't exactly in that tradition. It's not sort of a baggy, it can be anything show like Louis or like Atlanta or a man-seeking woman or girls or what it looks like insecure is going to be. We haven't seen that yet. You're the Worst is still in many ways a traditional sitcom. It comes from people who have written for comedies on other networks. What about divorce though?

Look, the divorce pod we're going to do is just going to be hot fire. And if Sarah Jessica Parker doesn't fucking stab the dude from wings right in the breastplate in hour one. No, but it's interesting to see, it's interesting to see, you're the worst, try to do some emotional stuff like it did with depression, but within the framework that it's chosen to put itself in. And naturally, that means it's going to be messier. There are going to be things that don't work,

and it's going to be sloppier. But when it hits those moments or when the jokes work the way they worked, like I think they did in last night's premiere, it's one of the best things on TV. I can't think of a better way to end it. All right, let's wrap things up now, and we will see you guys, talk to you guys next week

for this very quick but very worthwhile. pod on Atlanta. Yeah, you got to get ready to watch Atlanta, and I hope you all have a really wonderful Labor Day weekend. Happy Labor Day to you, Big Guy. Great job, won't know.