The Watch - Funny People Natasha Leggero and Riki Lindhome Talk Comedy and ‘Another Period.’ Plus, the End of ‘Dark’ (Ep. 219)

Episode Date: January 19, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald welcome guests Natasha Leggero and Riki Lindhome to discuss the new season of their Comedy Central show, ‘Another Period’ (6:00). Later, Chris and Andy finish the Netflix series ‘Dark’ in their final installment of #DarkThursdays (31:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Stand up and walk now. Hello. And welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I'm editor at The Ringer.com. And joining me in the studio. He never doubted. Nick Foll.

It's Andy Greenwald! So inaccurate. Man. So many doubts. Let's see. We'll find out. Monday could be a very happy show for us. It could be a kind of a melancholy show for us.

We usually don't cross the sports and culture streams. Do you mean, how we work at a sports and culture website? Shouts to our livelihood. Well, we don't on this podcast. Greenwald, it's Thursday. It's the re-up. We have special guests today. Yeah.

Very excited to welcome in the co-creators, the co-stars of Comedy Central's very funny show, another period. Natasha Lajaro and Ream. Ricky Lindholm. They stopped by. We chatted with them. I wanted to ask you something before we. We're also going to do dark Thursdays today. Not just any dark Thursdays. The finale of dark Thursdays. We are wrapping up dark Thursdays. If you're not going to listen to that segment just now. I want to tell you something up front. I promise you will like this show. I can't. Dark. Oh, I thought you meant our podcast. No, I meant like if you're not, if you haven't been watching Dark, if you're like, oh, they're talking about Dark again. Guys. Come on now, guys. It's really, really, really good. Like, Like, you guys followed me into the Ozarks. You followed Greenwald into 1980s, Washington, D.C. With the Americans, seven of you did. You didn't.

I didn't do it. Bad example. Go on. But we really, I don't know how emphatic we can be about how good this show is. And we will talk about that later on, but without going in any plot, without going any spoilers or anything. I just wanted to just sound a general ring of endorsement for this. I did want to ask you one thing, though, before we got to our interview with Ricky

and Natasha. is the question in German because I'm fluent now. Natasha was talking about, spoiler for this interview, a little bit about how she has a bigger IMDB than Merrill Street, that she's got more credits than Merrill Street. To be fair, they were both very good in Silkwood.

I don't know if you listened. I think I talked about this a little bit on the Bill Simmons podcast. Not familiar. We were talking about whether or not if Daniel Day Lewis did as many roles as Russell Crow, who would we think was a better,

actor. Is it that Daniel de Lewis is just a once in a generation the next Brando, the last Brando, and did 10, eight movies or whatever it was over 30 years, and now he's out after Phantom Thread, which we will also be

talking about shortly. Not today, but down the line. And then it's just like, I'm out. But if he had had to do proof of life, and if he had to do body of lies, and if he had done... What if he had done the Ridley Scott Wine movie? Good year! Yes. So I'm saying Boy, he would have been good.

Do you think DDL keeps up that level of performance? Or do you think that Russell Crow, if he only ever does four movies, is he like, that's the best actor of all time? It's a great question. Definitely not. Because it's a versatility thing. Think about it this way. Think about the reverse, or at least with a reverse perspective. Daniel Day Lewis would be anywhere ranging from delightful to magnificent in just about any Russell Crow role.

Okay. Maybe not LA confidential. If DDL and the mummy would have been... This is an ambush. I'm not saying the movie would have been better, but I'm saying he would have been good in all of those roles, and you cannot say the same is true in the reverse. Okay.

It's just a different vibe, right? I mean, do you... I agree. I think that there's... The answer is somewhere in between. I think that if DDL had more plate appearances, there's just a higher chance that... He could have been in a movie

where it wasn't Jim Sheridan directing, wasn't Martin Scorsese directing, and wasn't PTA directing. Sure. You might get a wonky movie. I think that here's something to remember about. Are we doing DDL now? Now that he's done, are we coming up with a cute little...

I like saying DDL. How many times... When's the last time you saw Room of the View? The Merchant Ivory 1986 film? It's on the rewatchables list, but I haven't yet yet. No, it's not. He's in that movie in a very small supporting role as a priggish suitor.

God, he's good. You watch this movie. and you're like, this, this character is not important, but this guy's incredible. Yeah. He's just really that good. I just want to know if he was doing like Hackman's role in enemy of the state. How many people do you think had Andy talks about a room of the view on the podcast on their like bingo card?

I'm just someone out there has it. Sorry. Enemy of the state? Yeah. If he had played Hackman's role in enemy of the state, would he have been like, I need to be a method, I need to method this. I need to know all about the surveillance state. I need to know all about like NSA and all the,

like the secret edicts of the, of the, you know. But I love it. Like, this is the thing about Daniel Day Lewis. You tell me these scenarios. I'm like, what if you played the Tom Cruise part in Tropic Thunder? It'd be incredible. Right? Like, that would be good.

That would be pretty funny. Come up with an example. Name a movie or an iconic role that would not be better. You guys hit us up. If you can think of a movie that Daniel Day Lewis would not have improved, you let us know. Yeah. Oh, I also kind of want to know the ones that he really would have improved. Like, what movie would you want to see him?

like as Robert Duval in the judge. Here's at the watch pod, all of these thoughts about Daniel Day Lewis. If you've just got straight DDL thoughts, hit Zach Mack up. Because Zach Mack needs something to do with his time as punishment for not watching Dark. Yeah. All right, Andy, enough kidding aside.

Let's get into our interview with Natasha Legerro and Ricky Lunholm from the show Another Period. And then after that, we'll be talking about Dark. On that note, let me welcome our guest to the podcast. So excited to have the co-creators and co-stars of the Comedy Central show Another Period, which returns to televisions on Comedy Central Tuesday, January 23rd at 1030 p.m. Natasha Lagerro and Ricky Lindholm.

Hi. Welcome. Great to be here. Thanks for coming. Our show's paired with drunk history, so you can watch them both every Tuesday on Comedy Central. That is both a nice pairing and very friendly of you to give the shout-out to the other show as well. Well, that show has probably a few more fans than ours,

so I'm actually just trying to help our show by giving the shout-out. The benefit of drunk history, which we do not need to continue to talk about, is that it's right there in the title. You get it. You get it. Also, it does have the same director as our show. So, you know, and they are both period pieces. And they both, I would say, have the same tone of funny. So I feel like the people who like drunk history would love our show. But the title of another period can be confusing. It could be misconstrued. Sure. Let's talk about the show. Another period. 10. See, I was telling people to turn on their TVs at 10.30. I was just cutthroat. No 10.m. generous. This is the third season. The show is incredibly funny

and incredibly detailed with very many characters. Could you, since we want to expand the audience, can you explain the show to people in your own words that's not there in the title? I mean, in one sentence,

it's if a family like the Kardashians moved into downtown Abbey. Yeah, that's good. So that's kind of, it's new money people at the turn of the century. In America during the Guild of Age. And I think I read...

And it's very important that it's America because, you know, you look at England and downtown abbey and these people come from long lines of Dukes and duchesses. And, you know, our families are like, you know, our dad was a fur trapper. They're all new money.

And they have no taste and billions of dollars in 1902 that they don't have to pay taxes on because the income tax wasn't introduced yet. No taste, but also no tradition. Nothing to base this on. No. No man or nothing. No education, nothing.

You look at Downabee, and one of the reasons I think people loved it and escaped into it is because everything. thing was appropriate. Everyone knew how to behave and oh, the upper lips were so stiff. And that's almost why this has to be a comedy because these people know about all

of the traditions, but they don't know how to like follow them or, you know, it's just not innate. And the American upper class, like they did do like a lot of like making it up as they went along for a couple hundred years, right? Like in terms of like, ah yes, this is when you stick your head inside of this. You know, like, and that they were like, go on about it. I was just reading

a book. It was more set in like Jeffersonian stuff, but I was just like, holy shit. These guys don't know how to behave at all. I guess they still don't. But also very, very, very recently removed from doing all sorts of terrible things. Right. And their family, like all these people, their parents did the same jobs. Their parents were all, you know, working class people. And then all of a sudden, half of them have a billion dollars and half of them have nothing. And they're like, go. I read that, and please tell me if I read incorrectly, but that the genesis from the show came from the two of you talking about all the many projects you'd been a part of.

and asking point blank how many of them were actually funny. Is that accurate? That's accurate. That's what happened. I love this. I mean, we saw some of the stuff we do. I don't want to say none of them. I have more IMD credits than Merrill Street.

I looked it up one thing. I probably do too. I have like 96. She has like 76. Slacker. And I'm like 30 years younger than her. So the point is we've just done so much stuff. And, you know, it's like when you try to look,

quantity obviously isn't important always. But, you know, it's like you want to be a point. part of stuff that you really can get behind and are excited about. And how did this end up being the idea that appealed to both of you? Well, I had, Ricky and I, you know, we went to Africa together for this, for this like, you know, to help malaria. That's another story. You did that, though. Congratulations.

For malaria no more. Malaria's done. I know, right? Well, it's actually. Is it doing well? I don't know. It actually is getting close. Well, Ricky and I are largely responsible.

That's really good news. Yeah. You're welcome. Yeah. No, it has, you know, there is a cure. And there was a lot of education that needed to happen and they wanted comedians to come and try to help. That's actually great.

So we did that and then we kind of bonded there and then we would come back and start talking and like we both knew we wanted to like create our own show. And at first we tried to do a reality show parody and it's impossible. It's like parodying the president. Like you can't. Like there's nothing worse than what's already out there.

Yes. And so, yeah. And then we read this book on Newport. and we were just so fascinated by the time that, you know, there was actually, it still existed these houses. Like, they were bought by the historical society and you can go there and go on these tours

and learn stories of all these insane, wealthy, eccentric people. And, you know, we just kind of fell in love with the whole era. And also the idea that, like, no one's really tackled the gilded age. Yeah. Especially in a comedy. So it just felt, you know, everyone's, like, obsessed with the 1920s and the guns and the liquor and, you know, the men and the gangsters. And it's like, that's, like, that's.

stuff is so overdone and it's like the women really kind of got to shine almost in a way in this time period because the women run society and Newport was all about society so even though they couldn't vote and by the way voting did start there like all the meetings it didn't you know the meetings all started there like if you go to Newport there's like votes for women stuff like paraphernalia everywhere like and that's where the season begins exactly yeah did you guys have like was there any other historical period that was in contention or did it actually just grow out of an interest in the gilded age it was just this because natasha had gone to newport and seen the house tours and then i went with her and we we went and saw and it's just so much comedy and we're

like nobody's done this it's just sitting there that's like it's like kind of the amazing part about it as i was kind of like i can't believe no one thought to do something like like that's the thing when you're like no somebody did this and you're googling you're like no some no great well another thing that's interesting about the gilded age and you know basically was over as soon as they introduced income tax, which was like 1912, 1915, I think. I think we're getting rid of that again. That's what I'm saying. Fingers crossed.

No, but that's what I was going to say. It was over 100 years ago, but now it's like we've come full circle. And actually, Ricky was saying that she read that the income disparity has never been greater than it was in the Gilded Age and then now. So those are the two times in history that we've had the largest gap between the rich and the poor. So everything is already, and it's not like we address all of these serious issues on our show, it's just kind of woven in. What is the breakdown for the two of you between, percentage-wise, from research to just silliness?

Because the show, I mean, maybe we've danced around this. The show is incredibly funny. They let us see the first two episodes of this season. I love the second episode particularly, which is not premiering in January 23rd, but January 30th. Alongside drunk history. Alongside another episode of drunk history. But clearly you do research and you do care about accuracy on a macro level before you get down to. But even on the silly level, some of the research brings us, you know, like the dog dinner party from the first season.

Like that was an actual thing that this woman famously spent $100,000 on her dog's birthday party and invited other dogs. And they all like, you know, ate whatever. The servants fed them. And, you know, so we can take those things and obviously turn them into comedy. It's a thing like 50-50. To answer your question there, you know, it has to be silly. Like we have a scene where we're talking exposition, but we're also learning how to eat an ice cream cone and we can't figure it out. Because ice cream cones are just invented and they were at the World's Fair.

So it's like, you know. And we just don't get it. Is there stuff that you guys came across that you were like, this is almost too absurd to work on screen? Like any historical tidbits or stuff, like anecdotes that you come across and you're like, nobody would even buy this even. I mean, we were like a little worried about things, but people always pull them off. Like we had Harriet Tubman last year as a branding expert. Right. Because our characters want to get famous.

And so that's all we want. But obviously it's very hard with no technology and no photographs and no, you know, no movies, no whatever. Yeah, there's like four famous women at the time. I mean, you'd have to like get a portrait painted and hang it out. You're like a risque portrait and hang it up at your dinner party. I mean, that's kind of like. And then invite a lot of people for a long time. Yeah, exactly.

It's like a long con. You had to wait for it. Exactly. One of the other pleasures of watching the show is it seems, there's a vibe that some comedy projects give off where it just seems fun. It seems like you're having fun. It's a large ensemble. You never quite know who's going to show up. You have a remarkable run of guest stars continuing into the season.

How does that translate on set? I mean, is it really as simple as you just call people you've worked with or funny people that you know or meet on tour or whatever the case may be? Yeah. Natasha and I have been in the comedy world for a long time. and you meet people. You know, it's people we met 10 years ago at the Montreal Comedy Festival and you have their number.

And so you can ask them. And it's really, it's a privilege to be able to do that. And we realize that. But we just utilize it. We're like, we're going to ask all our funniest friends to come and play something fun. That is like one of the perks of being in the comedy world

is that you know all the funniest people. Right. And you've worked with them. And, you know, we've been really lucky because I don't think a lot of these guys, you know, they majored in theater and they were in plays and they don't get a chance to, like, act gay and, like,

put on crazy costumes. and, you know, I mean, I think most of the men in the show are gay. Yeah, most of the characters are gay. I think we're kind of like, we're getting revenge on all the times the men made us play prostitutes. I mean, not revenge, but, you know, it's just sort of, we just think it's funny to have them be just sort of. Oh, in love with each other. Yeah. I really enjoyed it, and I, can I spoil your show?

I don't want to spoil it, but I really enjoyed Jason Ritter in some kind of convoluted Gillette-age underwear, making a, a Carrie Matheson from Homeland Crazy Board and just shaking and screaming and frustration. Yeah, we were like, that was one thing we wondered if it was too stupid. We're like, can he think his mom is a ghost? Who's been standing, who's been with him his whole life?

And we're like, yeah, he can pull it off. Well, because he's so talented. He's such a comedic, like talented comedic actor that, yeah, I don't know how he does it. He can pull off anything. And his physical comedy is so crazy. And it's so, but somehow still so grounded. Do people need, I mean, three seasons in, I would imagine it's less,

but I was wondering if people guess who are obviously funny, they know it to be funny. But do they need coaching as to the type of fun you're looking for and the vibe? I was thinking specifically in the season premiere, which, by the way, it's January 23rd. Yes. Jermyn Clement is on your show. He's amazing. He plays our mom's kind of lover.

Religious man slash lover. Slash-dictionalist, as it turns out. It's kind of amazing because we wrote that character with him and mine, but we didn't think he would do it. That kind of keeps happening to us. Like, we'll use someone as like our prototype and then they'll end up saying yes. So that's been really fun.

He just swans. I just mean he swans onto your show like he was born to be there. I know. People just get into the tone. I don't think we've had a lot of trouble. I really think people like wearing costumes and being flamboyant.

That's a really good point. You know, I just think it's like, because where else do they get to do that, really? That's why people like costume parties, too. Or like, yeah. Halloween. And if someone's a guest start, they'll meet you at your level. If everyone's shouting in your face, you'll get.

Nobody's doing like, I want to do Dando-Lewis. No. Nobody's graduating. You guys are talking a little bit about sort of comparing IMDB pages and wanting to do something together. Is there something about 2000, whenever you guys started the show in 2015 or when did you guys first have the idea for it? It seems like about two decades ago. It seems so long ago. Well, that's my question.

At least 2014, if not before that. 2014. Was there something about the way T. was changing industrially that sort of allowed this idea to come to fruition now and maybe it couldn't have before? I feel like we just kind of got lucky. Like I feel personally I always felt like I was a little behind the, like I always wanted like glamour and, you know, I always wanted, you know, to talk about class. And that was just my personal obsession, but it wasn't always what was in style. So it's like sometimes you just have to like follow what you're interested in and then hopefully the times will catch up.

Sure. So, you know, I don't think we were specifically trying to target, you know, this time, you know, like, we weren't really even trying to make a satirical show. I think we wanted to wear, like, cool costumes. Yeah, but we were really passionate about the idea. We knew we were on to something. Yeah. We thought of the ideas over a glass of wine. And then the next day we're like, okay, so let's make a short. Like, we basically made a 10-minute pilot on our own right after that. You know, paid for it and full costumes and a mansion and everything. Before you were talking about, and I agree with you, like, how hard it is to parody things that are happening in real time and it seemed beyond parody. And yet, here you are in the third season. And the season premiere concerns women getting the vote and women in politics and feminism. These are topics that are relevant. I mean, they've always been relevant.

But they're general in a way. So it's like that's almost better than like, you know, a whole episode about calling countries shitholes. Because it's like Trump's going to say 50 more things by next week that are awful. So it's like you can't really target like. like super specific instances. That's what I was wondering. So specifically how you get into the topic, I mean,

you have a way in because you're, you're just telling things that are always relevant and also specific to your period. And we're assuring the men in Congress that you can give women the right to vote because they won't vote for other women because they don't like other women. They're like,

we're going to lose our power. And we're like, no way. Not a chance. It has been a bunch of 70-year-old white men in charge for like hundreds of years. Like, it's like it really hasn't changed. It's strange that like no 40-year-olds were like, let's change that ever in the last two. Like there was never like any, any movement against them.

Even the people that the liberals are excited about are like in their 80s. Yes. It's just like. You cast the Congress for the season premiere of another period, January 23rd. And it, you could say that that's just Congress today. It looks the same. It looks no different. The photos are the same.

The mustaches maybe. And watch, you know, I was watching the show Victoria on PBS about Queen Victoria. in the 1850s, and they're all, they all look exactly the same. I mean, it just hasn't changed, you know, throughout history. It doesn't matter what country. Well, I'm sure there's some European countries. You mentioned Victoria. I was wondering if there was like other touchstone shows that you guys watched or drew

from, even if just like tonally or acting wise or just like beats that you've been obsessed with over the years. The real housewives. Yeah. And definitely upstairs downstairs too. I mean, if you take something like the real housewives and then also upstairs downstairs, downstairs and Dutton Abbey and Kardashians. It's like they're kind of opposites,

but we kind of melded them all together. And it's all about manners. It's all like this sort of like idea. I don't know if the Kardashians is all about manners. Or lack of her of. They're definitely a good example of like people with a lot of money who don't really understand traditions. And I'm sorry to make fun of them in front of you.

Ricky. I know you love them. Oh, I like that show. You know. I teach her for it. I watch The Real Housewives Am. Kardashians, but we bring it to the show. Do you have like a defined thing between

Real Housewives and Kardashians? Were you like one but not the other? I don't really watch either of them. I mean, I will, sometimes I'll watch a clip and be like, oh my God, I can't believe these people talk like that. Do you do much reality TV in general? I don't, but like, I had like,

the Real Housewives, I feel like I really could get into. But my husband came home once and he was like, don't ever turn that on again. Like, I just think it's like some men just have like this adverse reaction. So, you know, if I'm alone, I think it's a fun, like, character study, but it is pretty mind-numbing. And I think that people do use it to, like, clear their brains out. Do you have, do you, so aside, and do you watch a lot more of, do you watch a lot of reality stuff?

I just, those are the only two that I watch, but I, but I, Vanderpump Rules. Oh, that kind of counts as a Real Housewife show. Oh, right, right, right. Yeah, it's under the umbrella. Is this Real Housewives of James? Yes. Borderline scripted, right? They all are, aren't there?

I don't know. But they're all still working that restaurant for real? Okay. Is it about a restaurant? Yeah. The only reason I don't think it's totally scripted is because there's no way all those people are that good of actors. Like they cry all the time. And I was like, these people can't cry on cue, like on stage.

This is, you know, they're not going to do Oscar Wilde, but they can cry like that. How does she run a restaurant while like everyone's being interviewed? I don't know. Restaurants is a tough business. Probably most of the income comes from the cameras at this point, right? The chicken fingers are just like the loss of the door. Yeah. I don't think they're super focused.

Sir. S-U-R. Sir and pump. It's really big. It's really big. It's really big. That's not this. Sir and then.

The other one is. Yeah. They really. S-U-R. S-U-R. S-U-R. Wow. Well, we're learning things here.

Your character's on the show, Beatrice and Lillian. I'm curious. This seems like a silly question for the way the show has been up to this point, but do you see, I can't believe I'm using this word,

an arc for them? Like, do you consider the show as you're making this season, hopefully multiple seasons? Is there a place they're headed other than fame or infamy? It's a slow arc. Can they grow and change? Well, I mean, honestly, with sitcoms, you know, I know this isn't quite a sitcom, but, like,

you do just want to kind of see them going back and forth. Like, it's never like they're supposed to have some huge epiphany. I don't think either of them will ever completely change. I think Beatrice, my character, could maybe change, but I feel like she's always going to not make the right decision. Lillian's never going to change. No, she's pretty set in her way. Yeah.

But we'll lead you toward that and then, you know, at the last second. So no very special episode where they... Not so far. Maybe in a fantasy episode might be interesting. Beatrice keeps getting close to realizing that she has a mind that she can utilize for things other than, you know, sitting there.

It's close. Her arguments of the Congress was very compelling. Yeah, things just come out of her. Very insightful. And then she gets shocked by it and goes right back to her. Doesn't she realize this season that she's not immortal? Yeah. She thought she lived forever.

Yeah. And Frederick realizes it too. She's a little bit more of like a baby. Right. So she kind of, you know, learns, she's learning. Learns from, yeah, touching the hot thing and then you don't even again.

Over and over. She also had the wisest description of vests that I've ever heard. That was my favorite line in the history of the show where she says, what are the lines that nature is my sleeves? Yeah, why don't let nature be your sleeves?

It's really good. That was a fun line. Looking forward on the show, are there inventions, historical figures, guest stars that are on your to-do list? Because you mentioned that you keep asking people who are your dream people and then they

show up. Hitler's coming in episode three. Oh, good. That's good. Again, no relevance to today. No. Yeah, no one likes him or talks about him. He's 11 at the time, so he shows up and he's related to Lillian. Oh, God, congrats. Yeah. Thank you.

We subtly drop in season one that Hitler's in her name when she does the beauty pageant. Right. Like, Lily and Abigail Hitler, she's Memorhorn Fish. We just sort of glossed by it and so. The family does get into an uproar because Italians move in. And this is something that we really learned. learned in Newport from studying, like, they would get very upset when Italians started coming to this country. And, you know, that's a whole kind of thing that obviously relates somewhat to today. Not necessarily with Italians.

Classic-guess whole country, Italy. Any feedback from the Newport Chamber of Commerce? I wish they would con. I just want to get free hotels. It's really expensive to go there. Rhode Island doesn't get many looks. The Fairley Brothers, I think, represent for it. But otherwise, you guys are doing the work.

But when we went there the second time together... I think we got recognized. Yeah, the people who did the house tours were like, we know who you are. I realize you mentioned that all of those big mansions were bought by historical society. Some were bulldozed. Okay. Because the people couldn't afford to keep them up.

You can't have 35 indoor servants and 45 outdoor servants when you're paying income tax. What do you mean? You can't. One could. Maybe we could. They were paying these people nothing. They were basically indentured servants. They would come every week on boats like from Ireland and all students.

like desperate and Newport's like right at the tip so it's like they would just I mean the butler would just come out and be like he probably like would go to the dock this would actually be a good episode just scoop up and just scoop them up and anyone who doesn't want to behave yeah I mean these people got no free time they weren't allowed to date yeah didn't they there was a strike and the servants wanted what like they wanted an hour free time a week that was just for them and the head of the household was like no they had to sleep together I mean there was one tour we saw that had the servant staying on the, like, the fourth

floor of the house, and it was like the most amazing views, but they had built a brick wall, like, covering up all of their views so that no one coming to the house would ever see a servant. And so it was like, these people were treated really poorly. But what was your question? Oh, I had a

question. I also was going to say that since I have two kids, they request for an hour of free time a week sounded very reasonable. I actually thought that was... That sounds awfully good. I'd look at a brick wall. No, my question was, wasn't one of them also purchased by Taylor Swift? Like hasn't, isn't she back in? She bought a Newport house?

Yeah, because she did like a whole July 4th, like, photo shoot there. I don't blame her because, oh, and she fell in love with it. Well, it was like, no, she, like, was living there or whatever, but she does these very, like, highly orchestrated, like, just hanging out casually on July 4th and, like, synchronized bathing suits with Hime and Lena Dunham. And synchronized bathing suits. I mean, there is a beach there that we also used in our show called Rejects Beatings. beach, which is where the servants had to lay out. But the funniest part is it looked exactly like the beach next to it. I mean, there's one ocean.

And there's just like a little fence. It's a really good point. Yeah, there's just like a little fence. And they looked exactly the same, but no one would go on Reject's Beach if they were wealthy. Exactly. But it's, I mean, Newport in the summer is so gorgeous. Like, I don't know. Have you ever been there?

Yeah. Yes. Because it's like each house will have like rolling green and then it just turns into the sand and then turns into the ocean. It does feel like there's always a regatta. Yeah. It's truly gorgeous. I appreciate that you translated regatta for Chris. He definitely, you didn't know.

He did not know. I didn't use to know what that was either. Isn't it just a bunch of boats? It's just like a boat race. That's how I would have defined it. A bunch of boats, but are they doing something? They're racing. They're the regatta in Philly.

Yeah. Can you race those boats? Yeah. You can. I mean, a lot of it depends on the wind, I'm sure. But. Right. Yeah.

It's pretty amazing, though. Like one year I was there, they had like, a historic old ships convention. So you look out and it's just ships that have been restored from like, you know, 200 years ago, just, you know, sailing through the waters. And it's pretty special. And the servants are allowed to look for 30 seconds. But yes, the historical society does own any houses that are left. I say, well, no, that's not true. The ones that you can go through.

And so the last plug you guys have for what's coming up on the season is Hitler. That's the, that's what you're like, watch season three. Yeah. Hitler. He's coming. He's coming. He is. And, you know, he's nice when he gets there.

But it's not like a glorious bastard. He's all right. Yeah. Yeah, he's a very nice little boy who's got his sketchpad. Let's just say he might meet a Jew. Okay. He might. It's possible in America.

In the comedy business. Yeah. And they might not like his art. Wow. Jewish critics always get. Can't say why that irks me particularly. Well, I think, I can't imagine where we go after Hitler. Natasha and Ricky, thank you for coming to talk to us about the show.

January 23rd, Chris. Did you know that? I do now. 10.30 p.m. Whether you watch it at 10 or not, up to you, but 1030 is one or other periods. Thanks so much for coming by, I guess. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Thanks to Natasha and Ricky, we will be back to talk about dark, but first, a few words from our sponsors. Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by Hotel Tonight. We back Hotel Tonight. Fun fact, unlike flights or other travel, hotel rates actually. get cheaper at the last minute. In fact, Hotel Tonight partners with awesome hotels to help them sell their unsold rooms, which means you get amazing deals. All it takes is 10 seconds, just three

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hotels and download the Hotel Tonight app now. All right, Andy, we're back. Thank you to Natasha and Ricky. Let's talk about Darkman. The final four episodes, right? So 7, 8, 9, 10. Yes. This is, it's been quite a journey, man. I am so happy we're talking about the end of the series together because there was a moment. Season, because there's definitely going to be some more dark. You're right. That is a very Freudian slip that we're going to get to.

Because there was a moment yesterday when you were like, I might not be able to finish the season. Can we talk about the finale next week? I couldn't do it, man. You were just being your typical generous self. Well, no, you people know that for a long time, my professional diet was, was heavy, right? I was on like that sumo diet of television. Like, I had to watch all of it, you know,

in big, big heaping portions just to keep that weight up. Yeah. When I stopped being the TV critic, I pulled back, maybe too much and let a lot of things slide. This show, I could not stop watching, and I could not wait for a chance to get to more episodes of it by the end. I mean, it was the best kind of experience because it was a slow walk at the beginning and a full sprint,

at the end, but in terms of my interest. For a show that's so much about time travel and has these supernatural elements, I was surprised by how surprised I was by it. And not by the, ooh, look at the twist way. And there's quite a twist at the end of it. But more like the human decision moments and the consequences of actions moments that come across in those final few episodes, specifically Ulrich going back in time to attack Helgo, which is really like, you know,

crazier things happen in this show by far, but that is one of the big gut punch moments. There's a couple of reveals over the course of the season, but it was really this idea that keeps getting battered home, and, you know, it's German in subtitles, and it's very dark and it's very solemn.

But for some reason, unlike a lot of, like, heavy voiceover shows, I found myself mesmerized by some of the thematic repetition of the voiceover talking about, can we change the past? Can we change our future? Can we change our present? Or is there a essential thing as fate?

Is something bound to happen no matter what interference there is? And, you know, of course it exists in the world of genre. And this is something that Mal and Jason talk about all the time, about the value of fantasy or sci-fi or genre work and what it tells us about the life we lead. But I found myself deeply affected by some of the underlying text of the time travel stuff, which is not something I thought I would be saying at 40 years old. It's because, once again, to the enormous credit of the showrunners here, they put the humanity first.

And then built a marvel of machinery behind them. Like a level of rigor and attention to detail that is, dare I say it, positively dramatic. Should we talk? We haven't actually said this, but like the casting across three generations is like, I was like, oh, is this going to be like looper where they just like change a dude's nose? And it's, they just found this great. actors to play people at different points in their life and they look alike. Let's ask this question. That's fucking crazy.

Let me ask a question of our European or European adjace listeners. Are there a lot of people in Germany who look alike? Like, I know that was, you know, that's a touchy subject. I know wanting that got y'all into some trouble a minute or two ago. But all I'm saying is there clearly was some upside to that because- They got the Ulrich nose. They got Ulrich, they got the, and that kid is a great actor because he does have that, Ulrich has that reformed bad boy, yeah.

80s Ulrich? 80s, oh, old old boy. Not like mads, by the way, I should be careful when I say that. It's, how about two different Helgas? Yeah. Those dudes look alike. Yeah. They did a great job with that.

Yeah, that's an impressive thing. Old Helga is decidedly shorter. Do you shrink that much when you get old? Do I personally? My didn't, yes. I'm just going to stop. Are you planning on it? No, I thought that was the one thing I noticed is that old Helga is giving up like four or five inches to 86 Helga.

That's the kind of like Reddit watching that this show is, I think does a great job avoiding, even though it obviously encourages it with how deep it goes, because we are completely on the ride with the characters. And I want to go back to a point you made at the very beginning, which is completely accurate. There are two, there are a number of twists and reveals, but probably. the two biggest are related, like the whole show is related to the Nielsen family and who's who. The first one we discussed last week, which is Michael being Michael being Jonas's father. I talked about how I called that and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I also, we also predicted that the mysterious stranger was Jonas.

Yes. Something that they definitely steered into in the last few episodes with the hood and the wandering around and the rural. that became more apparent. But the point that you made that is so true is that, so those, a lesser show would have lived or died on those reveals. For me, and I don't, this show is so good,

it doesn't need to slag off other shows, but it makes me think of something like Westworld, which I think everything depended on some of those similar reveals, the nature of a character, the true origin of a character, so much so that once you figured it out, you didn't care about anything else around it.

On this show, those two things were predicted, but what Ulrich does with Helga in 50s shocked me. Yeah. I was completely jolted and sat up on the couch because I was so invested in everything and because I was so accustomed and conditioned to expect a different result, so much so that it short-circuited the part of my brain that has been watching time travel and genre shows long enough to know that everything that happens has already happened and it always happened this way and blah, blah, blah. It short circuits your expectations in a way that is truly thrilling. So I'm glad you brought up Westworld,

because I think what this show does, and you sort of see it when the Claudia stuff starts to come in and you start to see all the pictures on the wall and all the different characters at different points in their life or in their lives or however you want to put it. And I think that the rigor and the attention to detail with character that they have in this show supplants what we usually spend all of our time litigating the rules of time travel

and something like this or in Westworld we're like can robots do that or like why don't you just turn the battery off like you just start to if the characters are bad and the relationships between the characters are not deeply felt the viewer is left to say

that's not how time travel would work or why don't you just go back and not build nuclear power then or whatever you want to do but because you feel that this town is basically an acute of five families that seem to be living on top of one another and intermarrying. I mean, you could get into the whole thing about whether or not Winden is real. I don't know if we're ever going to hit that.

Is it because the cops drive Mercedes? Yeah, right, because Charlotte's got that. Charlotte's got that Benzo. That drop top. It's amazing. Because you have such a deep connection to all these interlocking pieces, when they're just like, yeah, time travel can be done by, like, this watchmaker made a machine. We're not going to explain it,

except that there's like, oh, yes, cesium can be ionized, and that just opens up a black hole, and you're like, whatever, whatever. I don't even care. Like, that just sounds good to me. But the fact that, like, that dude's aunt is his grandma or his girlfriend

or whatever the hell happened. You're like, that moment where Jonas is like, I can't be with you. It's just, it's really an interesting shift on how you typically tell a story with these kinds of sci-fi or fantastic that element.

A couple things we should clear up. So these episodes, we go to the 50s for the first time. Again, really well done, production design, the consideration, the casting. It's really stunning. As a big Egon fan over here. Do you like Teeteman? I like Teetamon. I like that old director.

I like old Egan, but I just like that performance. I like that guy's presence. You know, I'm a big fan of old school policing. Like I just, you know, just goes by his gut. You know, just just takes uncorroborated stories from. teenagers and just runs with it. I did, a question emerged from that time period.

I definitely watched episode seven or eight, like maybe I was a little too tired to be watching it, so maybe this was obvious. Noah is Ulrich's grandfather? Is this the implication that I took away from the show is that this is all the Nielsen dudes. Ulrich is, is, Noah is the, is,

is Helga's father. No. No. Sorry. Noah's not Helga. So here's my breakdown of it. Helga's father is the old guy who runs the nuclear power plant who gives the keys of the castle of Claudia in the 80s. Yes.

Burned. Yes. Burned Doppler. Cool name, by the way. Not as cool as Bartos, but cool. Noah appears to be a pastor of some kind, a religious man. An ageless pastor. Ageless.

Yeah. When the Nielsen's show up. in town in the 50s. The first person they see is Ulrich walking down the road and then they make it to the Teetaman house where they're going to be living as borders. Yeah. Right?

Yeah. It's Mrs. Nielsen, I guess, and her son, Trant. Yes. So they show up. She talks about her husband being dead but says that he was a religious man or a pastor. So my inference is that that's Noah.

And yet somehow Noah also shows up concurrently. But it could also be the same we could be talking about he could be O'Rick's father but there's that scene where grandfather but when Helga goes missing and his mom goes to the priest and is like that's Noah

maybe this is my fault because I know he's not I thought Noah was like you and I made this baby together Oh not explicitly but she's like might not even be burns Oh there is that part too yeah

You know like we're doing this together Like I it's like I thought that Noah was Helga's father to make the Antichrist, basically. Right. Man. So there's a lot. Yeah.

So there was a little lack of clarity for me on that. But here's my bigger takeaway from this, that I'm curious your thoughts. And I'm curious about our listener's thoughts on this, too. I was so enthralled to the show and I loved it. I couldn't wait for more. And what I loved about seven and eight particularly was that I felt the not tightening. There was this something. things were spelled out. You know, that image, the three possibilities, the past, present, and future.

The idea of this cave linking all three at the same time and you need to shut it down. They clearly like invested something in Claudia in the 80s, but hadn't really taken her beyond finding out what's under there until later. Well, you're coming out of the opposite way. What my, what happened to me was I was so excited for this to be resolved. I fell prey to a very, I guess, it's not old-fashioned, it's actually modern thinking, which was they're going to tell this story this season. I knew that it was a big enough investment that there might be more types of stories or more things to come. Then in nine, I began to realize that this is just the beginning. Well, Noah is not a realized character. We don't know the origin of this room. We don't know what he's chasing. There's no motivation unless my hope was the

motivation was that he's just the grandfather and it's always about this one family. suddenly Claudia comes back. Suddenly you realize that the Bartos stuff isn't going anywhere. And then I got that sinking feeling that this was all prelude. And listen, don't get me wrong. I am pumped up to go back to Germany

to zip up my parka and go whenever they make more of these episodes. But there was something that felt a little... I was disappointed. Because I wanted more resolution and the thought of introducing another timeline, which they did. Yes.

Into the future. I would assume 33 years past 2019, whatever that is. 42 then. 42, 242. It didn't make me as excited as I hoped because I wanted, I was enjoying it so much for what it was, which is something that modern TV has allowed me to do, to assume that you're just going to be essentially one and done. Yeah, and they have a lot of hanging threads there. So, like, Ulrich is being beaten in a police in a jail. He's stuck in the past. Charlotte knows he's there.

Charlotte knows he's there. you know, I think that what happened to me in the middle of the season, somewhere around when they, like what you're talking about, when they bring the 50s in really hardcore, it was like reading, I remember the first time I read Richard Price is clockers. And I was, they do a lot of switching of perspective between Rocco,

the detective, and strike the drug dealer. And it goes back and forth. And I remember the first time I read it, I was just obsessed with strike. So I was just like, I don't really want to read about like some Richard Price cop. I want to read this like incredible,

character study of this drug dealer. And then you change your mind midway through and you start getting into the Rocco chapters. This happened with this show where I wanted just like this high school drama, basically like Riverdale with time travel. And then it got into the 80s. And at first I was like,

oh, this is like familiar territory of stranger things. But then I got into the 80s part. Then I got into the 50s part. I think that I've just now, they have my trust. So if they want to do Yonis is John Connor and this is The Terminator and Claudia is Sarah,

like, and wants to send him back to stop the apocalypse, they have my attention. Yeah, they've certainly earned it. I think that's well said. How do you feel about the future? I mean, about the future being a major player in the show. I mean, one of the things that was nice about this, and maybe it's specifically because of the cultural dislocation.

As you said, they went to the 80s and you expected Stranger Things. Yeah, this was Philly. You might be a little bit more like, yeah. Yes, because, and we talked about this when we first started talking about the show, the relationship to history, to family, to country, to nuclear power, the proximity to Chernobyl, all of these things are very, very different culturally in Germany. The 80s and 50s felt like interesting takes on eras for us. When I see future and I see dystopia, I start to recoil a little bit. Well, there's also a challenge for the storytellers involved because everything that happens in the 50s, 80s, and 2019, wouldn't necessarily cross the threshold of other people would know about this.

You know, a child going missing in a small town while a well-worn trope in crime stories, you don't see that on the national news necessarily or even on your Twitter feed now, right? But a nuclear accident, or in this case, apparently an apocalyptic accident, would change the world around Winden. And the relationship to Winden. And the relationship to Winden. So there is no reason for any of these characters to leave Winden, even though a few of them say they want to.

It's all contained in this old diorama, and it's kind of perfect that way. But when you open up the world to, okay, we're going to have these world-changing events taking place here, it'll be delicate to see what they do. Maybe they leave Winden. I hope they don't. I mean, everything about that show was so tied up with,

it's the forest, it's pouring rain. You know, it's so moody. and they did a nice job with the nuclear winter snow falling and the Mad Max trucks and the crazy flying helicopter whatever that was at the end but I am looking for

I cannot wait for season two but I see what your point is. Should we do just like an end of your kind of power rankings thing here? Your girl Regina's on an ill mission man. She's... Reggie took a dark... She did a full heel turn at the end there. I mean, Jonas can keep giving her those hugs but it's not imparting the sort of empathy

that I think they're intended to impart You know? Yes. That's a rough one. Hana is like the rise of Scarface right now. Charlotte remains the queen. Can I just a quick note about Charlotte, who is my favorite character?

But if I, as a police detective, had a strong suspicion that my spouse might be a child murderer and my husband or spouse called me and said, I have to talk to you. Not just that. I have to talk to you about the bunker. Yes.

Yo. I take the call. Just my note. This isn't, instead of just staring at dead birds or, you know, look at some micro-feesh. Your man's not like, I need to talk to you about the man cave. Yeah. You know, I'm not getting the Bundesliga package in it like I once was. Dorman lost to Byron.

Yeah. He's like, I live a very sketchy life. Yes. On the DL, not the DDL. Although that casting choice would be interesting. and yeah, so I'm calling you about the bunker and the red clay from where I drag the bodies that don't have the ear canals.

Yeah, she should probably take that, but look, the call of the microfeche is strong. It is. You know, the siren song. That was a great moment when O'Rourke shows up in the microfiche. Well, because also, you know, there is an element,

maybe this is a good place as any to end on, but one of the things that is often said about the Duffer Brothers and Stranger Things is they know their audience. You know, they are their audience. as they know the tropes and the little buttons to push. I think there's a much more distinguished way to know your audience, a much more intricate way to know your audience.

And what I mean is the people who made dark are aware that at a certain point, the audience will be frustrated that people aren't looking right under their noses. It established for us that Mickle is hiding in plain sight, that he's in photographs hanging in the school that have always been there. there. No one forgot that because it was a cool moment. To have Charlotte see Ulrich when she did scratches that itch. Someone saw something. Someone's on the trail. Someone's on the path. I would be interested. I don't know that I would necessarily need to rewatch the whole thing, but especially the scenes with earlier scenes with Jonas, the adult Jonas, coming from the future

or whatever. Some of the things that he says and does, I'd like to go back and see in terms of knowing what we know now, especially when he stops young Jonas, right, from saving his own brother. Oh, he does that? Yeah. No, saving his father. Yes. No. No. He stops him from saving, from taking Mickle back. Yes. Right. He's just creeping through time. That dude is just on a mission. He's very, very, very comfortable doing that. I can't tell. Does this show get the belt? I mean, for us, because it dominated our thinking. I'd say it was, probably the show that you and I are most passionate about

in a very long time. People have asked, would it have found a place on our top ten list? Have we watched it? Yes, I'm kind of glad it didn't, because then we didn't have to do that math, but yes. But it also is kind of a strike against the whole belt concept at this moment because it's filtering into people's world slowly, which makes it fun in a more old fashion way. This is the Netflix way now, is that they may have things that are big first weekend hits, but people are going and finding

end of the effing world weeks after the fact. And we're going to talk about it next week. But just a couple other points that are just lingering. What cocktail of drugs from the plastic bag did Bartos take in order for him to be super chill about his mad Max grandmother walking in from the backyard? Bartos doesn't even bat an eye, man. He's like, oh, you crazy old lady. Yeah, he seems to be taking this breakup with Martha and it's just like, I'll become the Antichrist. He's cool with it.

He's cool with it. I mean, first of all, Marta is a catch. Can I just ask you really quickly, snap decision? Is it possible that Noah is good and Claudia is bad? No. Right? That's what Noah is pitching. Right.

I think that... That Jonas thinks he's working for good by working with Claudia and that Claudia knows and it's just like using him. Well, what do we know? But we can't predict. But I think what we can do is base some assumption from what the creators have given us so far. And what they appear to be giving us is a story built on the back of very familiar tropes and stories and relationships and doing A plus versions of them.

Right. So to do one of those switcheros seems surprising to me. Clearly, there are cards yet to be played, especially if Noah's like, Jonas, I am your great, great, great, great grandfather or whatever he is. It's family first, man.

That's right. That's really the motto about this. Family first. Okay. What a fun show. Great show. Let's wrap it up there on Monday. We're going to have a special guest join us.

Yes. The ringer's Juliet Litman. she's going to come by and we're going to talk about ER's arrival on Hulu. Making a big impact on the culture. If you're an ER head, make sure you're tune in for that.

If you've never seen ER, you're really missing out on quite a great, great show. We'll also be talking about whether we are in or out on Netflix's end of the fucking world. And I think we have anything else on Monday.

That's what we got, but we've got, there are a lot of shows we're going to be covering. We're going to take a look at Stars' counterpart next week. We're going to be revisiting

Versacee for the second episode next Thursday. Thursday. We got Mosaic coming from Steven Soderberg on HBO. I don't know if you guys can tell, but we are in on TV in 2018. Look at us. Yeah. We're watching stuff. Okay, until next time. Hi, Bachelor Nation. This is Juliet Litman, host of the Bachelor Party podcast. A new season of The Bachelor is in full swing, and so the podcast is back, but this time I have my own feed. You can find new episodes every Monday night by going to the ringer.com slash podcast or by subscribing to Bachelor Party wherever you get them. Come for their recaps and

Roses, stay for the drama and for moments like this. Please tell me you don't already have a little wiener. I do not have this. So, yeah, you did good. Don't forget, subscribe to the Bachelor Party podcast today. It's available everywhere, including Apple and Spotify and Google.