The Watch - ‘Game of Thrones’ and Katie Crutchfield of Waxahatchee on Making Music and Living in Philly (Ep. 172)

Episode Date: July 31, 2017

The Ringer’s Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald discuss Ryan Adams's recently fired Twitter shots at the Strokes before analyzing last night’s 'Game of Thrones' episode, ‘The Queen’s Justice’ (5:00). Later they are joined by singer-songwriter Katie Crutchfield of Waxahatchee to talk about her latest album, ‘Out in the Storm,’ and life on tour (20:00) as well as a check in on 'Twin Peaks' (52:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, thanks for listening to The Watch. Today, Andy and I were joined by Katie Crutchfield from Waxahatchee. It was awesome to hang out with her for a while. Before that, we talked about last night's episode of Game of Thrones, episode three. And then after Katie took off, we talked about Twin Peaks. There's also ample discussion of the beef between the strokes and Ryan Adams, because Andy and I are nothing, if not on brand. Enjoy the episode.

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So what are you waiting for? Get in on these killer last minute deals and download the Hotel Tonight app now. I need sports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now. Hello, and welcome to the watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I am the editor at the rigor.com and joining me in the studio strung out on lasagna.

It's Andy Greenwald! How can we even record our podcast right now? News is coming fast and furious. We like to keep the headlines at the top of the show. Scaramucci, the Fire Festival of Communications Directors. Out. Great joke. Thank you.

You just summarized so many good stories. Let's go out like heroes. Two, we got Friend of the Pod, hashtag not really. Ryan Adams Just throwing darts So here's Amanda Brought this up to me Amanda Dobbins

Co-host of GM session Yeah We're just getting into it today I love it Brought this up to me Where she was like Did Adams not see Vultures

Let's break it down Ryan Adams has been on a tweet storm Today about members of the strokes He began the day Where he has that shit That makes your soul burn slow For Albert Hammond Jr. Not just that

He said to Julian Casablancus Who got you strung out On lasagna though Because he had been accused of getting Albert Hammond strung out on heroin. Sure. In our buddy Lizzie Goodman's book. Yeah. Me and me in the bathroom.

But Ryan Adams is on that Garfield tip. Meet me in the bathroom. I'm serving lasagna. Look. Real folk rock geez moving silence like lasagna. Chris. What if he fucking makes a record that's just like him dressed up like chef boy or D? Just serving the Italian American specialties?

Yeah. I love it. I love it. Italian beef. This is the stories that matter. It's Andy and Chris in the morning. We didn't even talk about how we started the day by Insta, Insta-ing, a photo of him and his ex-wife, Mandy Moore. I can tell Zach Mack is like, guys.

It's Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald. It's the watch. We're part of the Ringer podcast network. The Morning Zoo. We're here to talk to you about Game of Thrones because that's what we talk about. We're also going to talk about Twin Peaks and then later in the show. I'm excited about this. We are joined by one of our favorite current, I mean, favorite current songwriters.

No caveats. Katie Crutchfield from Waxahatchie is going to be joining us. Very excited about this. I want to ask her, because she's a Madman fan. Madman. Yeah, she likes television. But we were just so enamored by this beef between the Strokes of Ryan Adams. I feel like I'm like Funk Flex back in 2002 or something.

Listen, we, people don't realize this. They know that we're friends. So a while ago, just so people know, a while ago. You cut this off. I'm not cutting you off. I want to hear about our friendship. But just so people understand. Basically, Lizzie Goodman has this book,

made me in the bathroom in it. The members of the strokes are pretty candid about what a, you know, a herb that Ryan Adams is. Apparently. And now he was just like kind of like a weirdo and then got Albert Hammond allegedly addicted to drugs. And then today finally. No, he had some stuff to say a while ago.

He had some stuff before. But it was more like, that's fucked up. I don't know what you're talking about. And now the darts are out. And now he's got bars for them. By the way, we have. We have an open mic here in the studio. He's welcome to come drop bars here.

Anytime, man. But he didn't quite make it all the way onto the studio last time he came to be on our podcast. So that's fun. Anything else you got on your mind? I just want to say, people know that we're friends and we work together. We record a podcast. But during throne season, we are in each other's lives. Like last night, not even 24 hours ago, we were here recording a television show for Twitter, Talk the Thrones.

You can watch the replay now. Yeah, you can watch it every Sunday after the East Coast air. Afterwards, you gave me a ride home. home? I did. It's very nice. I found out that Chris doesn't just talk the talk. He walks it. Chris was listening to old G-unit mixtapes. I was trying to get fired up for Thrones. And then I started listening to DJ's screw.

Yeah. And you were just like, this is weird. And then you got out of my car. And I bought milk and beer. But we're spending a lot of time together. So maybe the familiarity is getting, is it too intimate for people? It's a little punchy. We'll have to let the listeners decide. They're the great barometer. What do they like? How do they

like it? Do they like us being friendly or us just all business? All business. nothing but Westeros takes. Let's get into it. Let's get into it. Game of Thrones last night, episode three, probably the most action-packed, I guess, episode so far

in terms of narrative stuff going forward. The queen's justice. Yeah, and we lost a queen. Was she ever queen, Elena? Did she ever get up that high? Can you just call yourself a queen of your hood? It's a great point. She was the queen of thorns.

Yeah, that's not really... That's what I'm talking about. But she wasn't actually a queen, because as we were reminded last night... You can't really have seven kingdoms with seven kings. Seven kingdoms is like the catch-all. There's only one king of... A lot of knee bending.

A lot of bending of the knee, including Circe. Last night. We talked a lot about this. Last night on talk to Thrones, we got into a lot of like... Because there was obviously a lot of mythology service going on with the dragons, meeting John. Where are we with the prophecy that Circe could eventually die by the hand of her brother, which was alluded to or explicitly explicitly...

laid out a couple of seasons ago. Which hand? And which hand? Andy really did make me break last night with a very funny Jamie joke. But I wanted to talk a little bit about like sort of more broadly, like some of the themes of last night's episode, because I think we talked a little bit about it last night. But this idea that we are essentially watching children, I mean, there's been a funny thing with the press run up to this season where you see all these pictures of these people and they were quite young when the show started.

Yeah. Even people like Nicolai and Lena, like, they're younger then. And it's sort of wild to see where these people are arriving and also to have the characters on the show sort of be explicitly aware of where they are coming from in terms of who their parents were or may have been. Brandtarn was playing Pop Warner football in season one. Now he's the starting fullback for the New York Jets. He's ready to die on the field. That guy plays safety. Yeah, what did you think of thematically?

What did you think of last-nights episode? Well, this actually ties into a larger point I had about the season so far, which is it's always tricky to play, to start diving for themes on the show. Sometimes they want us to do that. Sometimes they try to make it explicit and try to work within the confines of an episode, as in the episode is, quote-unquote, about something. Other times, just the sheer magnitude of the plot and the work that needs to be done to get people to the places they're going in order to be where they need to be

is just overwhelming and all the unifying themes just sort of fall apart. And I say this often. I'll say it again, because mostly because they won't talk to me anymore. But Benny Offen-Waise said to my face that themes are for book reports. They do not really have much faith in that in terms of like lacing their episodes with that. Sure. All of that said, there were a couple heavy underlines last night. One is a constant, this idea of who do you put faith in?

Do you put faith in? Red gods and many-headed gods, or as De Nera says, I put faith in myself. But the other one, I think the most interesting one, is the one that you're setting up, which is this idea of are we responsible for our parents' sins? What obligation do we have to them? How do we break the cycle or break the wheel, as DeNaris said? One thing that I really liked, and I think it's getting a little bit underserved from the episode, because in the context in which it was delivered was DeNaris and John Snow meeting for the first time. That happened. That is insane, if you think about it.

Seven years or seven seasons in, six years into a show, two of arguably the four major characters had never shared the screen. When John said, I don't know about those oaths. That's not me. That's not my life. I didn't make those. Those were somebody else. That's not even my family. Yeah, right.

Is that, as this is a line you referenced smartly last night on our show, does that make him a revolutionary or a monarch? Right. which is more valuable to be in this world. And so I like that. And that's what Circe and the guy from the Iron Brank of Bravaas are talking about. This idea of, like, who are you going to invest in, somebody who's going to keep the status quo, even if the status quo, is brutal but is profitable? Or are you going to invest in someone who essentially wants to erase or, like, wipe the board clean?

There is something that the show achieves sometimes. And I would imagine that it is a goal of the people who make the show. show to achieve this, which is really making us feel for the brutality of the world and the stakes of the game that these people are all playing just to be alive, which is if you are in the game, then you could lose and you know what that means. So the look on, and Indira Varma was really good last night in a role that I think has been pretty thankless. Like Ilaria Sand's face when she's being walked through the city streets with her daughter, having already seen two of her daughter's murdered. On some level, she has to be processing the horror of this moment, because

as anyone who's walked those Kingslanding streets knows. I know. It is not fun. Not a warm welcome. It is not fun. It's not the canyon of heroes. I felt, the only thing that I can actually, I can empathize because I did attend a number of games at Shea Stadium. Waring a Phillies hat.

In wearing a Phillies hat, like circa 09 and 10. The world's smallest violin is playing for Philadelphia fans. But her face in those scenes has to register that on some level she knew that this was possible. Yeah. I think that's why she was like kill me immediately. Right, because they know that. It was, when they showed that scene from scenes from last week or previously in Game Thrones,

I was like, oh yeah, that was really like a Hail Mary. Like, they were definitely not going to just kill you. No. Like, gotcha. It was a nice request, though. Yeah. But for her and also for Olena, I mean, that scene, for me, and I got into it on Twitter,

which is never a good thing to do probably. But the Illaria sand Tain scene did not work for me because those characters were essentially props. Like they were never given enough runway to become anything, So for them to be brutalized on screen felt very odd and disjointed. And the show at its worst to me because it was not invested in what it was showing. We didn't feel anything. It felt exploitative.

Yeah. The flip side of that is the Olena Tyrell scene, not only because Diana Rig is magnificent, but because for however many seasons she's been on the show, she has been playing, you know, eight-dimensional chess or trying to, you know, always with a quip, always with, always trying to be one or two moves ahead, operating from a position of wealth, but not necessarily military might, dealing with the hand she was dealt, which was fraught with problems. Her son was kind of a dumb-dum.

Her grandson was the greatest night in the realm, but was secretly gay, which is a problem in this world to have seen it. So she was in there playing it, and then over the last two years, we've seen everything that she cared about taken from her. And then she had one last thing to play, as we learned in the season finale, which was revenge, and it backfired. Yeah. And so the look on her face is one of acceptance, basically.

And to me, that was almost more horrifying, and it landed more than the Ilaria Sand scene because it was the face of someone who played as hard as she could and lost in the most excruciating way possible and knew it. Still got Ryan Adams bars at the end, by the way. Yeah. She was like, by the way, I fed your son poison lasagna. Yeah. But that's the show at its best to me and also the show at its worst. I've been asked a couple of times about how the season has also seen a couple of former villains of the show become essentially heroes.

I mean, I don't know that a lot of people consider Jamie a hero. Other than you? I think that there's a lot to be, I think a lot of it comes down to the performance. And I think that right now my two favorite performers on the show are Nicolai and Dingledge, in the sense that whatever scenes that they're in have, both a degree of frailty and charm that sometimes is lacking in other scenes, not in a fatal way, but just there's like a few scenes that are like people who are really into their own,

like, I'm on Game of Thrones shit, and it's like a little bit uptight, which is fine. But they have a very natural way of delivering pretty ridiculous dialogue at times, you know? But also selling us on the humanity, the characters. Absolutely. And the depth of the character. And like the fact that you can be someone who shoved a kid out of window and threaten to catapult a baby over a castle wall, but also be in this sort of doomed love, like a sexual relationship with your own sister. And have that be kind of tragic, but be capable of the kind of generosity sort of in his relationship with Brienne and kind of trying to find places where he can be a little less inhumane, if not exactly humane. And it's wild how Olena makes him pay for that.

She's like, oh, you're going to kill me right now? And he's like, no, no, I negotiated down to just poison you. And she was like, cool, for your trouble, FYI, I killed your son. Let your sister know about that. Yeah, I think we drew a lot of attention last year that scene you're referring to at the baby catapulting with Edmere last year when Jamie was just like, I will burn down this entire world for the person I care about. I think it's fair to say that a majority of the characters on the show have a similar

world view. And that's what makes, for the one thing they care about, nothing else matters. Everyone else is chattled, basically. That's what makes Dineris so much of a revolutionary because she's saying, I'm better than this. I'm better than this world. I'm not going to burn everyone in the city.

I'm going to go about this, the more subtle way. And so far, that's catastrophically not working. Can I ask you a question? Yeah. Is it my imagination or earlier scenes of this show was there more scenes of a major character interacting with the physical world of the show but in a non-battle?

since. Because I feel like there has been a slight adjustment in the way that they've either been forced to tell it for a variety of reasons or telling the story where it's like three to five characters in a room or a major set piece, but not like Rob Stark walking through a field and you see kind of like the scope of what's happening. Because I was struck last night when Uron's parading Loria through Kings Landing. I was like, oh yeah, the people. There are people. And I do think that that has changed, I'm sure, for a variety of reasons. I would imagine most of them are scheduling. Budgetary.

Yeah, right. I mean, there weren't that many battles in the beginning. Blackwater was a huge turning point and then, you know, every so often. And then there would be more and more. I kind of missed the middle ground. But yeah, we would see Rob in the field with his soldiers or we would see, you know, Ari and Bravo's or whatever. I think that's purely budgetary. Yeah, like even when Taiwan, like, do you think about how we met Taiwan and he's skinning the hog in the tent or whatever?

What was the line? The stag. But what was the line about, you know, Tyrion? The story of the world is people in rooms talking. Yeah, and that's, and I think that I still love that about the show. It's interesting point. I noticed it that there was like, it's, it's threes or layups right now. And that's good.

I mean, like, I think that that works. But I do miss sometimes, are you bumping into that troop of guys, soldiers on the road and tavern scenes? And just scenes where there's like random people kind of in the mix. I love the, I love the common man in this world. But it's like the shot, like, in the Citadel, it's all Jora, Sam, and Broadbent, and we're not getting a ton of like, oh, and then, you know, you don't seem any corners cut, but I think you're, you found one example of how they are doing it. Something else you said I wanted to go back to about the performances, Dinklage was so good last night that,

like I said, I was going to say Tyrion won the week, even though everything, every choice he made was the wrong one. It's interesting to see, and this is both of, this is a partly because of the character, but I also wonder if it's because of the performer, where you said, you referred to to to perform. on the show who are really locked into being that character and don't play well as well with others. I mean, to my mind, you're talking about Kit Harrington and Amelia Clark. That the scene, it was interesting, the scene between the two of them was so less vibrant than the scene where Davos and Tyrion were being their hype men and speaking for them. And I think that's two things. I do wonder if it's the performance thing.

Kit Harrington is so dialed in to being this brooding warrior leader that it's hard to, to suddenly be in the South and find a different vibe. But it's also, you know, the Han Solo problem, right? Like Luke and Leah aren't that interesting without Hans Solo there just cracking lulls. You need those other characters around them. And so going into a world of the show where DeNaris and John Snow matter more for who they are and their interaction with each other is a little bit less compelling, sorry to say, than when their secondary people around them are the ones actually advancing the play.

and they're more the figureheads for the bigger plot. I mean, they're not CGI. I feel like I'm really shitting on them as performers now, which I don't mean to, but they are totemic on the show now like the Knight King is. They're iconic, yeah. And I'm still more interested in those around that. The Onion Knights. The Onion Nights.

Okay. Get them onions. Let's take a quick break here from our sponsors, and then we'll be back with Katie Crutchfield from Waxahatchee. Did you think she watches Twin Peaks or are we going to do it at the end? We could ask her. We're going to find out, guys. Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by HBO's Room 104.

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slash watch. Okay, we're back. Chris, this is exciting. We are about to be joined by one of our favorite musicians, Katie Crutchfield of Waxahatchee, who made an album this year 2017 called Out in the Storm that I think is a monster. In fact, I was getting killed for it because I got an advance and I kept, I couldn't not talk about it because people could hear it. I'm a populist and I want to wait for the people. I want to listen to music with the people, not in your elite ivory tower. But in all seriousness, it's like a consensus album of the year contender. And this was really fun for us because Katie is originally from Birmingham, Alabama, but moved a number of years ago to a fine city on the East Coast, known as Philadelphia, and is part of this vanguard of

incredible bands that has taken up route. Basically, a lot of them who've chosen to live there aren't from there originally in our city. And we wish that this scene was happening when we were there. Yeah, we talked to her about Philly, about Birmingham, about her new album, and about her relationship with her sister Allison. Which one is Noel and which one is Liam? Yeah, who's in an awesome band called Swerin. And so, And she plays in Waxahatchi. And she also told us that she's been on tour since March and will be on tour until October. So you still have a chance to see Waxahatchie in your town.

We are so happy that Katie joined us. Let's get into our interview. Okay. We are so excited because we are joined now by our exclusive podcast guest, Katie Grudgefield of Waxahatchie. Welcome. Thank you for having me. We're so happy you could be here. I guess we're still negotiating your exclusivity to this podcast.

Yeah, we'll talk about it off the mic. Can we revisit at the end? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. My manager's going to kill me when he hears this. I have to talk to you about your manager. Oh, man, we just had Marin. Do you know this?

I do know this. He told me to talk to you about it. Yeah. Chris doesn't even know this. What? I went to high school with Katie's manager. No way. That's not the hottest way to begin an interview, so maybe we could circle back.

Yeah, totally. Philly private school mafia. That's right. Quaker school mafia. When we were talking about doing this podcast, he was like, and little known fact, I went to high school with Andy. Little known fact, well known fact over here. One of my fondest memories from high school was the day that my friend and I brought in

our copy, I think maybe shared copy of Snoop Doggy Style, which was a release that day. I feel like, I don't know if we both could afford it or something. You would take turns? We took turns. I feel like we went to like wall-to-wall sound and music together and like somehow bought one copy of the disc. And Reni made a comment that was so perfectly pitched. He had a very distinctive voice. I hope he still does.

Where he basically said, doggy style, huh? And to the day, I don't know if he was like pro or con. I love this story. Was he pro? We still don't know. Yeah, that's the thing about Randy. He's really amazing. He's very stoic.

So I think that I'm going to say pro. I think so, too. I don't want to speak for him, but I'm going to say pro. What was great about him is that he never showed his cards. I didn't know he liked music until I suddenly discovered his name in the credits of all these incredible bands coming out of our hometown. That was so which we actually wanted to talk to him. So how long have you lived in Philly? I've lived in Philly for about five years.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm actually sort of like thinking about making my grand exit pretty soon. Really? Yeah, I really want to go back south. I'm from the South. And so I kind of want to go back there. But yeah, I love it there.

I mean, there's so much good music and it's just really conducive to that. This is so exciting slash fascinating for us because we were not Philly by choice. We are Philly by birth. We're proud of that fact. Right. But I do think that he's okay if I speak for you? Sure, man. That the city that we came from and we left in the mid-90s was not this bastion of exciting rock and roll and culture and art-making that it is today.

Yeah. So give the pitch for those – because we are always defending Philly from our memory of it and going back is fantastic. Totally. But as someone who was not from there, why Philly – this is for the tourism board. Why Philly? You know, it's funny. And just I'm going to do a quick sidebar and then I'll go right back to your question. She's done a podcast before.

I'm from Birmingham, Alabama, and I'm having that experience now where it is now like become kind of like, I mean, not nearly like Philly, but just sort of like a cool place to be. And people are moving there and like people are making music there and art there. And it's like it was not that for me growing up. So I kind of want to go back. But I'm fascinated with people who go there by choice because I was born there. For me with Philly, I moved to New York from the South. And I really just wanted to like play as much music and make as much music. as possible, but in New York you have to work all the time.

It's so expensive. And so, like, you know, weirdly just, like, exhausting and competitive, like, with music stuff anyway. So a lot of people were sort of, like, sort of, like, traveling and going to Philly because it's cheaper and your quality of life is just a little bit, like, better. You have, like, bigger, there's bigger houses in West Philly. Everyone has basement and everyone's, like, practicing and stuff in the basement. As far as, like, from the music standpoint, it just makes more sense. You can work a little less.

You can work, like, make music more. It's uncanny, though. I feel like every band that I discover these days is living there, or not even from there anymore, because growing up, I mean, no disrespect to the Hooters, but that was pretty much, that was like... Yeah, there was like... They remember when I was living in Boston, like, I would go to first, like, Unitarian Church shows when I would come back, and I was like, was this here when I was in high school?

But, like, the thing about you're saying about Birmingham is, like, when you're in that young, you don't really see it, right? You just see, like, as far as, like, your parents have... Like your school experience or whatever. So I don't know, but like it definitely blows my mind every time I go back there. I mean, Philly is like, it has like, it's popping off there. I mean, it's crazy. Everyone's moving there.

Like, it's a whole thing. I mean, I remember I lived there for like a year or two. And then all of a sudden it was like, especially from like coming from like a DIY sort of touring circuit. So like I would always get in touch with, you know, this person in San Francisco and this person in Columbus, Ohio and this person in Texas. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, they're all just moving to Philly. Like it just like really felt like that. So I feel like that it really has just been a thing lately. I can't really tell you why.

I think the main thing is that it's like a snowball effect. Like all these people were kind of coming from New York and Boston and D.C., even like just like expensive East Coast cities. We're all kind of going to Philly and then now everybody wants to be in Philly. That's like when my parents moved downtown in 2010. That's right. They were like, you know, it's the cutting edge of culture. Once they got down there, the music followed. How do you feel about the West Coast?

You've been out here. You played on Saturday in L.A. Are you a L.A.? fan? I'm a huge fan of LA. Yeah, it's great. I don't think I would ever live here. This feels like a place that people are really flocking to. Yes. I don't think I would ever live here, but I really love visiting. It's great. And yeah, of all the major cities in the U.S., like right now, it's probably one of my favorite ones to visit. How much of an effect on your geographic location decision-making is Wawa and Hogi Fest? Oh, that's a really good question.

Because it's, you know, I struggle out here without hers potato chips. I mean, there's certain things. I wish I brought you some. I wish I had thought to do that. Chris gave me some for my birthday. That's a good friendship to me. That is true friendship. Yes, that is.

I love while I live right around the corner from when I go like almost every day. This is great. I feel like regionally this is going to go very well this podcast, but we should probably talk a little music. Despite living in one of our favorite cities, you also made one of our favorite records of the year. Out in the Storm is out now. It is truly an amazing album. I wanted to go a little bit macro about it because I think about this often. We get these records as like finite documents. When I got this record, I considered it as of a piece. It felt of a piece. It felt all the songs fit into each other. It works so spectacularly as an album, which is something that I feel like I miss a lot. The world has maybe gone more streaming, more singles-oriented. Playlists. Playlist oriented. This is an album that I love to listen to start to finish. But that's how we got it. I was wondering what your path towards it was. Is this a sort of thing where you had a sense of a vibe or a tone for a record? Or was there one song that opened a door where you found the other songs waiting for you? That's a good question. I feel like, well, first I want to say that I really, the way that I approach making records is like it's like the album as a concept. It's sort of like I'm always at some sort of phase with the album and I always see.

the album as its own thing and like don't really see it as individual songs that much. But I feel like it's hard to say. I mean, it's like the way that it all came about, it really felt so fluid. It was like I wrote it all really fast and it's kind of hard to remember like a moment in which I, because also when I was demoing, the songs did sound really different. I think the reason that it sounds like sonically it's so cohesive is because I play with my live band and we just have like a thing that we do. You know, kind of just that's what made the record sort of have that sort of,

you know, cohesiveness. But I think that, yeah, in the past, I've made records with, like, other musicians and, like, just sort of, like, it sounds a little bit choppier. But, but, yeah, I don't have a good answer for that because I feel like it really just all felt, like, so fluid, and then the end result just made it. But it's just interesting to me because I think, obviously, musicians differ and albums differ, but it's always a question to me whether it's the artist is thinking of it as a cohesive statement, like wanting to write a novel or just a collection of short stories, basically.

And the feeling of this album is very much of an album. Totally. I don't want to say characters, but the emotions that can run straight from one song into another and feel like they're speaking, that there's a dialogue between them. That's interesting, yeah. Well, I will say that usually when I make records, like in the past, especially my, like, the two before this one, I feel like it was really important to me to have every single song be sort of about different things and to kind of cut that up in a way

that, like the subject matter, but then also like make every single song sound super different. I really like, like it got it by voice's record or something. Yeah, yeah. I really was like, I always wanted to do that because I really liked the challenge of getting the like the sequence right and all of that stuff. And with this album, I noticed that there was like a similarity,

even just like half of the songs in the same key, like things like that where it's just sort of like, wow, these sort of really are like clicking with each other. And I just leaned into that more, whereas in the past I've really tried to lean away from that. That's the cool thing about the clip you're working at where you've been putting out records pretty consistently like once every 15 to 18 months.

Yeah, right? And so it's like you can do B,000 in Alien Lanes and they can feel kind of... I mean, this feels like super cohesive if this record does to me, but like I love that idea of what you're saying of like just that all GBV feeling of like these are the songs that we recorded over two weeks

and that's an album and now that we'll just go to work on another one pretty soon, you know? Totally, yeah. I mean like having that sort of... of like polarization, like just all those different songs that are just like, whoa, like just listening to it and not knowing what you're going to get next, that sort of unpredictability about it. Like that really just like excited me creatively. I always wanted to do that. But I also feel like I did that a lot and now I kind of want to do something else.

In the same vein of that, like I just wanted to do something like a little bit different. There's like a music nerd thing that I really appreciate here where it feels like the track listing was considered. I'm always a fan of track two. I'm always a fan of track two. I'll put it there. But particularly when track two is a change-up pitch, like we get the fastball, and then you come in with eight-ball, and it's a completely different vibe. And there's such a confidence in that saying, well, yeah, I did this, and now we're going to take it here.

Right. And it's like settling in for the longer drive. Yeah, no, totally. That's really true. And I actually appreciate that because with this record, I usually, usually in the past, I'm, like, so particular about track listing. And I had, I really struggled with this one. And I tried it a million different ways. I couldn't find just the right order.

and John Aniello, the producer, was like, try it in this order. I have an order for you. But I was, like, insistent on A-Ball being the second song. That was my only thing was, I was like, that needs to be right. Because I think never been wrong. I always knew he wanted that to be first. And I was like, then A-Ball needs to be second. That was actually me.

I'll take credit for it. You should. There's an immediacy to the whole thing that is echoed in the title of the album. Because when I first started listening to it, I realized I was glossing over the name of the album. And I kept thinking it was, I almost thought the idea was that you were no longer in the storm. but no, you're actually out in it. I'm out in it. These are songs almost, they are of the moment songs.

They are not being processed later. They're not recovery songs. They're, well, it's still ongoing. Absolutely, yeah. And just that concept of like, this thing is happening, but like it will end. Is this the thing that I like about it? It's sort of hopeful. It's sort of like, okay, there's chaos happening, but like the chaos has an expiration date.

It will end. I think there's a couple of, I mean, I don't know if in your mind you're like there are different narrators for these songs and that they shift it all. But there is like, it's pretty sardonic. in places, like, it's very funny. I found, like, actually, which is, like, it makes any of the, like, the subject matter feel different because, like, you have, like, these great jokes in there, or, like, boardplay or puns or whatever. Totally.

That make it kind of, like, lighten it up a little bit. I always, I really enjoyed that part of it. People keep saying that to me, and it was not intentional. It was not intentional. I mean, it's great. I love that. I love, like, that people, like, can see the humor in it because there is something, I mean, there's something just, like, sort of, like, messy and, like, off the rails about some

of the songs. So it was, like, Elvis Costello, right? Right, yeah, exactly. Where it's like, wow, that's really funny. It's also just awful that somebody is feeling that way. Yeah, totally. And I, you know, combat some of the awfulness with humor just typically. So if that seeped into the lyrics, then.

Yeah. I think I speak for many recovering former, hopefully former passive aggressive indie boys. I'm very happy that they're on blast. Yes. I feel like it's about time. That's good. That's good. I like that's like not something that's like entered my mind.

But I'm like, oh, wow, if the passive aggressive indie boys do hear this and they're like, I've done my job. There's something that my wife would always make fun of when we would go, let me rephrase this, when I would often drag her to indie rock shows in the 90s and she would notice that everyone in the crowd that was a male was standing there drumming soulfully on their sternum. Oh yeah.

And then I was like, how dare you as I did it myself? And I feel like I picture that and look back with shame every time I hear you me and I appreciate that. That's good. Great. I wanted to ask, I know that asking it like, What was an influence on this record is pretty straightforward, but I love the way this album sounds.

So I was kind of curious about what you were listening to and being like, that's how I want the guitars or the drums to sound or this is like the feel I want this record. Was there any records that you were like going back to a lot and being like, I'm really, because there's a lot of like, you mentioned got out of my voices and there's parts of like Sonic Youth Dirty that I kind of feel like it's just like a really cool. No one of those records, but like it's not retro. sonically kind of reminds me of it. When we got this record, I think we both said the same thing

before we even processed individual songs. Like, this is the kind of record that I love. I love the way this sounds. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, I would say yes and no. The thing, people keep asking me this question, and typically when I make records, I know I keep going back, because making this record really was sort of a different process for me, so I sort of keep holding it up next to, like, the past. But I usually have, like, obsessive, like, notes of like, oh, I want, Like, I think there's a song on my record Ivy Trip where, like, literally I took like a Nicki Minaj beat. And I was like, that's the drums. And then I was like, and this like, like, tall dwarfs like cassio tone sound.

I want that. And like things like that. I would just like write all these things out, like just song by song and have all of these notes when I go and like to record it. And with this record, I really didn't do that. I like, I really tried to, you know, let my melodies be my melodies. Let my instincts be my instincts. And of course there's all these, like, you know, I'm a well of just influences, you know. I'm a well of just influences, you know, that are always, I'm always thinking about.

But I really tried not to do that. And I really tried to lean in with my band and just sort of take their strengths and apply that and have us, like, sort of make a new sort of thing. And I also really wanted to do that because I was thinking about playing them live. And I knew they were going to be rock songs. And I was like, I just want to be able to do exactly this life. And I guess, like, John's made some pretty great records. Oh, yeah. There's that, too.

When you talk about the desire to move back to the South, is that for personal reasons or musical reasons or artistic reasons? Do you think that there is some unfinished business that you have with your songwriting that you'd like to explore there? I don't know if I feel like I have unfinished business. I feel like I have always, I mean, it's just sort of like quiet. I've always sort of thrived in the quiet. I think that that is something. I really want to scale back the next record. I kind of want to do something sort of more solo and like sort of more like folky or something.

And I think that like that is like the place to go do that. I think like being in the chaos of like the city and, you know, kind of around all of my friends. There's so much stuff happening all the time. I think like I wanted to make this like big loud record. And I think now I kind of want to go and like scale it back a little. I love the way you're talking about it because it suggests a well earned confidence in your career that you will have more songs to write and more styles to try out and try on, you know, that you want to do this next. and that's an adventure in a way. We've been talking a lot about how,

particularly even in the world of rock music at a certain level, it does feel like bands are a little bit trapped. They have to go all out each time. Like, this might be my last shot. I'm going to put everything into this time in the studio. And I don't know if that always works. You know, obviously some of the greatest records of all time came out of people being like,

vibing on a thousand different frequencies. This is my moment. Right. But I like the idea of it being an ongoing. conversation with your muse, with your audience, with the world around you. Yeah. It's a different way to approach it. Yeah, I mean, I've always sort of been a fan of like the slow sort of burn, you know,

just like I've been writing like and been sort of like to go back to like the concept of like the album and like just sort of, I'm always at some phase of the concept of the album. I was working on one or I just finished one or something like that. And I feel like I've been doing that since I was like a teenager. Like so I feel like it's just something I'm just going to keep doing. It's just like, I can't imagine not doing it. Even if, like, I sort of, you know, don't ever get, like, my, like, shot or whatever.

You know what I mean? Like, even if, like, tomorrow nobody cares anymore, I feel like I made music for nobody for so long that I'm like, I'll just probably keep doing that. I mean, you know what I mean? And I also really, yeah, I mean, I like to, like, challenge myself. I like to try different things. And I feel like I have a lot of different influences and a lot of different. My songs are so simple that, like, and that's just always how they've been. I think they've always sort of like really, everything sort of always hinged on the melody.

So I think that there's a lot that you can do with that. You talk about moving back south. And I was, and you know, you also talked briefly about like your experience on the DIY circuit and playing house shows and stuff like that. I was wondering if that, does that make you a little less enamored or neat, like make the need a little less to feel like I have to be in New York or Los Angeles or Chicago or one of these like major metropolitan areas where there's like some. infrastructure of record label, like, does that stuff even exist? And any more for you? Like, in terms of like, oh, yeah, like, I should probably, like, go to New York so I can play Bowery, like, once every three months or something like that. Or is it, has that's changed so much because of the internet that you can kind of be anywhere? I totally think it's changed so much

because of the internet. I think that, like, I mean, if I was sort of like a, like, super, like, struggling musician or, like, was still trying to, like, figure some stuff out and, like, with, like, my career. I mean, not that I'm not, but, you know what I mean? Like, sort of was, kind of more, like, starting out. I do think that that. I do think that that, that's kind of important to be kind of where everything's happening. But I think at this point, I, you know, will be in L.A. or New York or whatever for some reason just from, like for the band, you know, either, no matter what. So I don't really feel the need to kind of be in the middle of everything because I'm always traveling and always kind of in the middle of everything. So I really

like the idea of, I mean, like to give you an idea, I've been basically with the exception of like a week and a half. I've been on tour since March. I will be on tour until October. What? Yeah, I've barely been in Philadelphia. So that's kind of how I'm thinking. I'm like, when I get home, I kind of just want home to be like a quiet, calm place, and I'm close to my family, and everything is just sort of like, you know, chill. And I, you know, I kind of just like, that's really my thinking. That's kind of why I want to do it.

None of those things are how I would describe Philadelphia. No. Close to my family. Close to your family, yes. So during all that time on tour, you have, I know this. from speaking to many bands who are on tour, there's a lot of downtime. There's a lot of travel and downtime.

How are you spending this downtime? Are you binge watching things? No, I haven't watched TV in so long. It's kind of sad. Yeah, I really miss it. We were really hoping you could give us some insight into Twin Peaks, the return. I have not seen a second of it.

Actually, you might have the same amount of insight as many people who have watched 12 hours of it. It's a little inscrutable. Oh, yeah. Good to know. Maybe I won't even try. No, no, strong recommend, by the way. To be clear.

Okay. Yeah, I feel like, yeah, I read, we've been listening to audio books. We just finished the one on Jonestown, the, like, new Jim Jones book that just came out about Jeff Gwynn. So Peppy, a peppy kind of like married time on the road. That's good. Yeah, we got to the end and everyone, like, we were all in the end of our seats. It's like, it's coming. The congressman has landed.

You know what I mean? I'm like, it's coming. And then it starts, like, all of the, like, stuff. We were like, we stopped at a gas station and, like, we're like, I'm so excited. The congressman's there. Just buy around a Kool-Aid for everybody. Did you guys have like on honorary Kool-Aid? No, I wish that we had.

Sorry, this is not funny. It's like so dark. But once that stuff started happening, we were like, you guys, we got to turn this off. This is too dark. We're like, we've just been like driving for like two days through Montana and just like, oh. That sounds really dark. It was so. In the case like Thrones would be like uplifting if you got to that.

Yeah. Well, my name has been watching Game of Thrones and I don't watch it so I haven't been watching that. But yeah, it's a lot of like, you know, talking to each other, joking around. Many inside jokes have happened. Do you feel like as you're traveling, like, since you're not located at any one place, are you like as upset, I guess obsessed with the news? Or like, are you like really super connected to like the news cycle the way like people, I think, who are like sitting in front of their computers all day are?

Or do you, will you go like a couple of days and be like, what happened? Yeah, I'm kind of more like disconnected. I think that's healthier. I think I try, what do you say? I think that it's so easy on the road to just be, to like live inside of your phone because you're just on, you're just in the car all day, just like, it's so easy to do that. And so I try really hard to not. I still do, but I try really hard to put it down as much as I can.

So just live in the experience. Sure. You know, it's like. In the Jonestown, yeah. Yeah, live in the Jones Town experience, yeah. Do you find that being on the road is conducive to being in touch with yourself? and your interactions with people in the world that can fuel songwriting?

Or is that quiet time that you're talking about? Is that a recharge for your creative self as well? You need to just sort of remember who you are and how you fit into the world and your relationships with people? I think both. I mean, I think that it's interesting. Really all, everything with tour in my experience,

it all depends on the personalities that are in the van. It really depends on who you're with and where everybody's at. You like a stern cult-like presence in the van. Oh, yeah. No, it's pretty much like definitely cult vibe. We all wear a lot of linen. It's just very cult.

It's a lot of year. It's a very cultue. Yeah, I'd say it depends. I mean, recently earlier this year, I went on tour with Kevin Morby. Like it was like a solo tour and it was just there was only five people on the tour. None of us knew each other super well. We all kind of knew each other. And by the end of it, it's like I felt like amazing.

I was like, oh my God. Like I've pulled myself out of all of these social dynamics that I am around all the time with like, you know, my best friends. and my, like, you know, like, boyfriend, like, things like that, just kind of getting away from that. And then, like, kind of just being with new people and new energy, it was like, it really, like, there's a lot of self-reflection for everyone on the tour. It's, like, really kind of a special time. And I kind of feel that way a lot on tour. I think that, like, you, it just feels good to, like, nurture, you know, your relationships and kind of just, like, try and, like, my group is, like, very, like, we all just, like, really look out for each other and love each other.

and it's, I have, like, engineered this, like, group of, like, positive good people. This sounds very healthy. Yeah. Like, this is very surprising. Like, everybody else is just, like, tour is so alienating. Well, to be fair, I have been on some doozies. So that is one of the reasons. That is one of the very.

Do you have a no names dropped legendary tour story like to share with listeners? Oh, my God. I have so many. We don't have time. I have so many. These are podcasts. They're free for them. We can go as long as we want.

Yeah, I, let me think about it. I'm sure that I do. But, yeah. I think the big reason why my tour, this tour is going so well and everybody's like communicating well and like looking out for each other and like, you know, whatever. Like just we talk about feelings a lot. I think that it's just because I've been on so many horrible tours. Yeah. Well, how about that?

So what is because who knows, maybe there are aspiring musicians who listen to our podcast and they're about to go on tour. Maybe they're going to go on tour for the first time. So what are your Katie's three do nots for going on tour? I can jump in with one and I've never been in a band. I'm excited, which is that the guys who I lived within Boston who were in a band went on tour and they went to someplace in northern Louisiana and came back with scabies. Cool. Watch out. So don't get scabies?

Don't get scabies. That's a rule for life. That's not tour specific. Don't, yeah, I would say, because this is, this feeds into that. I would say like, just take care of your physical self, like as much as you can. Dermatology on down. Yeah, like I think that, oh, just like get in the van, you know what I mean? Like that mindset of like, it's tour, it's we're going to war, you know what I mean?

Like it's something that I definitely did when I was younger, but now I'm like... Did you make people practice on off days like Greg Ginn? No, I did not do that. But like, you know what I mean? Like the like, we're all just going to pile in like the shittiest van ever and it's just going to be, you know what I mean? It's an explode in the desert. Yeah, we're going to eat like gas station burritos or like ramen and we're going to like, you know, just save... You know, I know, I know that money is like a whole thing too.

That's like, you know, but. People, I think, really lean into it. There's like a lot of pride. Yeah, have a salad. That's my message to black flag. Have a salad. Sleep in a bed if you can. Like just take a shower.

You know, just take care of yourself. It's amazing how much of your guidelines for tour could be for life as well. Both of you. Take showers, sleeping beds, eat vegetables, avoid scabies. Avoid scabies. You too can be a successful tour. To be fair, I think it was like a mystery dog that was in the house in Louisiana that they played that was like, oh, this cute dog. And then everybody started itching.

They all roll around with the dog too much. Yeah. This story sounds suspect. I think another thing, too, is like try to communicate all of your issues with people in a timely way and let them bubble over. And try and also remember that at one point you chose to get into a van with these people because you love them. Sometimes it's easy to forget that. Yeah. You know, I think that's also really important.

But, yeah, I think that, like, I mean, I describe it. It's like navigating a romantic relationship with, like, many people. Everybody's personality is kind of, like, you know, in that close of quarters, it's like, it is very, very tricky. Have you gotten, do you have any, like, life hacks when you're doing it? Like, do you know I can't bring up an issue if we still have, like, a thousand miles to drive? Because then if it goes wrong, we're stuck in this van together? Absolutely. Do you wait until, like, the last gas station before you're going?

And you're like, by the way. I'm a big fan of the pull aside. Oh, nice. Yeah, especially as like the leader of the band, I sort of have that. I can do the pull aside. I'm a big fan of pulling someone aside and having like a, I love you so much, but this is a problem and we need to fix it. But if you want to get back in this van, you're going to do what I tell you. I try to avoid that, too.

I try to make like, I really try and be like kind of like just hyper positive about it because you have to be in a van. And Allison and I literally were just at a radio station and had like we were just inches. away from having a Noel Liam Gallagher off the rails fight in the middle of this radio station. It was bad. I was going to say that what you were describing just in terms of being stuck with someone who you love, but it can be a little intense. That does sound like a sibling relationship. And so maybe you had a little early practice because you have a sibling whom you work with very closely. Right.

She and I are the only ones who ever really get close to actually fighting. I don't know if this is like a one-to-one comparison, but if who is known and who is. was Liam in this situation? It really depends on the day. Yeah, I would have to say. It really depends on the day. It's an interesting dynamic. I mean, I don't want to, like, misrepresent my relationship with Allison. She's my best friend in the whole world. Love her more than anybody on the planet. We're cutting this whole part. You're just going to like manipulate. I just get together so you're like, she's Liam.

Yeah. I mean, to be fair, I am probably Liam. But I think that, yeah, we just, it's a lot It's a lot to balance. Yeah. You know, we've, someone described us as twin sisters and long time friends. We are in an article. Someone said that. We say it all the time. But, yeah, I mean, we've known each other our entire lives and things have shifted.

And now she's in my band and there's a little bit of a, that's like a whole thing. We're like, I'm kind of like the boss and that's, that doesn't work all the time. Sometimes it does. Yeah. You know, there's just like a lot. It's a lot to navigate. Which of you is older? She is.

Two minutes. Whoa. Yeah. Two minutes. That's a pop song. Who knows what she would have composed? I know right. I think the truth is everybody wants to be Noel long term, but we all feel like Liam.

You know what I mean? Like being Liam in like 1994 would probably be fun. But if you're playing the long game, you kind of want to be Noel, right? Yeah. You just give good quotes. You make perfectly mediocre records. Everybody loves to interview. But then is that there isn't a boring one in between the two of them.

So it's not like you're like, oh, if you're Liam, you're like. No, Paul is the boring one. Paul Gallagher, the older brother. that no one talks about. Yeah. Yeah. You want to talk more about the Gallagher's. I'm trying to think of like another Britpop comparison to bring up, but I can't.

Yeah. I was really visualizing. I was like, these people are, these people at the radio station are going to have a story. Like, they're going to really have a story. Have you guys ever had like a public, like meltdown with each other? Not yet. Maybe someday. No.

Next time. And by the way, here's Allison now. No, I think we should probably let you go. You've been very generous with your time. Thank you so much. with your sister. Yeah. We're really making

y'allels and sound like she's like really... She's the older one. She's the older one. She's laying down the law. She's probably laying down the law. Out in the Storm is out now on merch records.

You will be hard pressed to find a better record this year. Thank you. Katie Crutchfield, thank you for being here and thank you for boosting our hometown. Awesome. Thank you guys for having me. That was Katie Crutchfield

from Waxahatchee, Andy. Out in the Storm, out now. Everybody cop that. Seriously. Spin that at your next party. let's take a quick second before we go to talk a little bit about Twin Peaks Because I was kind of playing the long game

I was hoping Katie was watching it Yeah I thought maybe Katie was up on Thrones too But no such luck She's just into them deep cult leader books Col leader books yeah Books on tape about cult leaders Sounds like a fun van So last night Chris was

Part 12 Yeah of Twin Peaks the Return I believe there are 18 parts Are you tired of this yet? Last night was a little bit of a of a challenge. Last night was a tough one. I have... Because like, here's the deal. And I don't know, people may or not give a shit about how we wind up watching these, but I think context is important for shows and stuff. Yeah, you should say

this. And so, like, I got home at nine. You drove me all the way, five minutes out of your way to my neighborhood. Yeah. And I got home and poured myself stiff drink, turned on Twin Peaks. Did you? And I was like, the first scene is very much like, this is what Twin Peaks is about. Like, all of it. Here we go. And I was like, oh shit. And then, it was a series of scenes that were essentially like we've made this joke before but it is like the Wolf Feral scene in Austin Powers where he's just like I'm dying down here

An all time scene Yeah but it's like each of these scenes go on six minutes longer than normal And I also like am now at the point where Half of the people on this show I'm kind of not sure If I've seen them before or not Well there are a bunch of different shows Happening all at once and some are more engaging than others

I loved that Dougie appeared just to have his son throw a baseball on his face and that was the only appearance of Comic Lock him in the entire hour. It's interesting that I kind of missed some of the new characters. Like I was really digging the Mitchum brothers

in the last two weeks. Belouche and what's his name? Dude from Nepper, the dude from prison break. They're totally new characters to this and I've really been enjoying that and candy and that whole thing. I loved it. It's fascinating that one of the major planks of

this season is David Lynch as Gordon Cole, that like the FBI characters who are basically seeking out Dale Cooper, but also playing the Dale Cooper role in the idea of these sort of noble weirdos trying to make sense of a world that simply doesn't make sense. It's Lynch himself having a blast, and he's a very engaging performer. Once again, playing these sort of melancholy meta notes with Miguel Ferrer, an actor who passed away since this performance in that scene where he said he worries about him. Once again, we're forced to have, we have this incongruity of a scene that Peaksheads have been waiting over a quarter century for, which is basically explaining what the blue roses are. And by the way,

nothing that was told to us was surprising. This is basically what it clearly was. Especially after episode eight. But also, honestly, after the movie when we were introduced the idea of a blue rose case 25 years ago. But also, it's pretty wonderful for him to say, Philip Jeffries, David Bowie's character, Chet Desmond, Chris Isaac's character from the movie. and Dale Cooper were connected in this. So we have this moment that we've been waiting for as fans. And then we also have Krista Bell in there as Tammy Preston, who, to be charitable, has never acted before.

And you can tell. And that's a choice to have her in those scenes sort of throwing us off balance again. So we have things that we've waited for, and then we have things that we were waiting in a way were tough waits. And specifically, the return of Sherilyn Fen is Audrey Horn, a character who was a cliffhanger at the end of the original series. there was a bank explosion

and we don't even know if she survived there was a passing reference to her being in the emergency room in this Twin Peaks to Returns so we knew she survived but all of a sudden to have her back in this to be charitable

fucking endless scene with her husband on the phone you know I will honestly be charitable here there were some people reviewing this episode saying that they think

that Lynch and Frost enjoy twisting the knife a little bit, making us wait for things. Not punishing the audience, but testing the audience in a way. I disagree. I think they just take swings. And some of these scenes can work.

This one didn't work. Do you think that there's going to be another season? No. No. Because, surprisingly, for an 18-hour season, they're kind of running out of... They've introduced a lot of stuff that has to get sort of, or not...

Half stew? Yeah. No, but you know what? Here's the thing. I wouldn't necessarily think so unless, but he has spent most of this season has answered questions or tied up loose ends from a show that happened so long ago that clearly plot is not something he is completely disregarding. No, look, you know, there were major things that happened last night where we know that Tim Roth and Jennifer Jason Lee's assassin characters are headed to Las Vegas to kill Dougie slash Cooper. We know from the tattoo on the dead. woman's arm that everything is pointed back towards Twin Peaks.

We know from the Sarah Palmer scenes that something is still not right in that house. Something's in the house. Something might be in the house. It was the same sound effects whenever Bob was present in the original and the ceiling fan. And by the way, shouts to Grace Soprisky, who gave the rawest in some ways bravest performance in the original and is still just doing the damn thing. Totally disturbing and discomforting. So we are headed somewhere and it's just a question of how much we're going to enjoy the ride.

last night I will give you this last night was a tougher one to watch but it was made okay for me at the end by the appearance of our friend Scott Coffey who suddenly burst into the scene like the Kool-Aid man as trick right so he makes the ninth or tenth person who shows up at the roadhouse and is like you know he was the woman he was next to is Anna Dela Ruggara who is you may remember from Eastbound and Down season two I do remember her from Eastbound and Down I don't remember she has not been on Twin Peaks previously no and you don't have any of those characters or any of the characters are talking about talking about, correct? No, it's kind of interesting. I don't know what he's doing with this, but... Because that's like almost like this weird, like it's the O.C. Where it's like a band is playing. Yes. And then he's got like kids talking about stuff.

I wonder if there's something to be said here because what he does seem to be doing with these scenes where there's bands playing it's the Peach Pit after Dark basically. But the gossipy teens are all 30 plus two middle-aged people gossiping. And there's something about people being stuck in soap operas that he's playing with here, that Lynch and Frost are playing with here, right? that Shelley and Bobby, we saw Bobby has become a cop and he's a dignified member of society, whatever.

But they're still playing these games. They're still stuck in this world. And I think there's something is being played with there. But that's the sort of commentary on TV characters and on the sort of emotionality of soap operas that I think that's not going to pay off. That's just he's playing with that. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. So, I mean, I think I'm still into it. I don't know whether or not, I think it's just more that like, I kind of just feel like at this point with the New York, the box in the New York apartment, with everything that's going on between Laura Dern and characters, you know, like, and even, you know, everything. It's just like, weirdly six hours doesn't seem like enough time to finish it if he's going at this pace.

But, like, I'm sure he knows better than I do. For me, every episode is still magic, not just because of my connection with the show, but because we get these grace notes that I think get overshadowed by the weirdness or the bravora artistic takes or the things that just don't work. Richard Bamer has been so great as Ben Horn, even though he's really just been behind a desk. Does another long scene. Chatting with Ashley Judd.

Yes, it was a very long scene, but when he said, when he starts talking about the bike, his father gave him, that touched me in a way. You know, we said this before, but when Lynch vamps, he vamps very close to the bone. Yeah, I mean, I got to say, for as much as like I'm having entertainment issues, it is sort of touching to watch how much you like this show.

I got me completely honest. I can't believe there are only, I mean, I know it sounds ridiculous, but I can't believe there's only six hours. I'm going to miss this. I love this. Do you think David Nevins is like, I can't believe there are always? No, he's like, I can't believe there's six hours. There's nothing funnier than this interstitial that's being pushed on websites everywhere of Twin Peaks and Ray Donovan. Because I cannot think of two completely polar, more polar opposite shows.

Unless Ray Donovan solves a Blue Rose case. Then I'm all in. Yeah. All right. We'll be back on Thursday. Yeah, Thursday, it'll be me doing a special interview. That's Thursday. That's the folks from Glow, right?

Yeah, we've got Liz Fleehive and Carly Mensch from Glow coming in. I'll probably drop in to talk about any breaking news. Any breaking Casablanca's news. Scaramucci getting rehired. All right, until then, talk to you soon. Good job for it. Today's episode of The Watch was brought to you by HBO's Room 104 from the creators and executive producers Mark and Jay Duplas

comes a new anthology series called Room 104 Fridays at 1130 p.m. HBO set in a single room of an average American motel. Each episode of Room 104 tells the story of different assorted characters who pass through it with performances by James Vanderbeek, Jay Duplas, and Orlando Jones. Each episode plays like a mini movie, ranging from comedy to drama to horror. The tone, the characters, and the era all changed from week to week. One Room Infinite Possibilities, Room 104 Fridays at 1130 p.m. on HBO. Today's episode of The Watch was also brought to you by Hotel Tonight.

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