The Watch - 'Game of Thrones' Returns and Disney Unveils a New 'Star Wars' Resort (Ep. 168)

Episode Date: July 17, 2017

The Ringer’s Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald discuss and review the Season 7 premiere of ‘Game of Thrones’ (5:00). Later, they discuss the unveiling of Disney’s new Star Wars–themed resort, Galaxy’s Edge and Marvel Avengers news (32:00), before circling back to Season 2 of ‘Master of None’ (46:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of The Watch was brought to you by a Game of Thrones enhanced edition. Andy, George R.R. Martin's Game of Thrones. There's a new Ibooks version of this called Enhanced Editions, and it is just bringing these storylines, these characters, to life in a fun and interactive way. If you, like us, have been on the fence about reading the Song of Ice of Fire series, the five books that have been out there informing the TV show that we all know and love, this is the time to get in. These books are really, really cool.

The enhanced editions, every chapter there is a map showing you where the characters are. Every character name is clickable for a hyperlink explaining who they are, what their sigil is, what the heck they're doing, and where they've been. It is the most immersive way to experience George R. Martin's crazy in-depth books. You go from being like basically a remedial fan of this story to being a professor of this story. These books are available exclusively on iBooks. You can go to apple.co slash game of Thrones. Again, Apple.co slash Game of Thrones, check them out.

They are not available in all countries, but they are probably available where you live. And if you've been thinking about getting into the books, or if you've read the books and wanted more deeply immersive, interactive experience, can't recommend this more highly. It's George R.R.R. Martin's Game of Thrones enhanced editions. Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by the second season of HBO's Insecure. Creator and star Issa Ray is back with a brand new season of her deeply relatable series about friends, love, and L.A.

Set in Inglewood, season two of Insecure finds Issa, dealing with the fallout of her infidelity and resulting breakup with long-term boyfriend, Lawrence. Despite her attempts to maintain a positive facade, Issa secretly hopes that she can win him back. Meanwhile, though, he is still conflicted about his feelings for Issa. Lawrence begins to move forward without her. This summer, Insecure isn't holding back, and life is hella out there. Watch the season two premiere of Insecure.

July 23rd at 10.30 p.m. on HBO. I need sports to have to clear the room. Stand up and walk now. Hello, and welcome to The Watch. My name is Chris Ryan, and I am an editor from The Ringer.com, and joining me in the studio. He just got done with latrine duty. It's Andy Greenwald.

They never tell you that that's the other side of soup duty. Yeah, you know what? I did not have a work study in college, but I imagine that that's what it would have been like. feel like that's what internships at the Ringer are like. Andy, welcome to The Watch. It's Monday. We are part of the Ringer podcast network. A network I'm proud to be a part of. Shout out to House of Carbs.

Shout out to Big Picture, Achievement-oriented, binge mode, all the fam, Bachelor Party, Jam session. The ones you're leaving out are going to be salty. Who am I leaving out? NFL show, NBA show, MLB show. Say Shackhouse? Shackhouse is my favorite golf podcast. I know that.

Andy, we're here. It's Monday. It's the Monday after Game of Thrones season 7th. and premiere, so obviously we're going to talk about that. Thank you to everybody who reached out, who watched last night's Talk of Thrones on Twitter. It, you know, it was actually just an awesome experience. People were corresponding with us during the show interacting.

We had a lot of fun. We felt we enjoyed watching the show. We were so happy to have Jason and Mallory with us. We even enjoyed working together, so that was nice. It was, I hope people checked it out. You can still watch it. There's still a lot of confusion. You can watch it live.

and then you can continue to watch it. You can watch it whenever you want. It's on, like, if you look at the ringer's Twitter feed, at my Twitter feed, at Greenwald's Twitter feed, I'm sure at Mal and Jason's, I muted them. Just kidding. Come on. This was a really, for us, we had a lot more fun doing it this way. I can say than we did last year. I think that's okay to say.

I was not on ketamine, so that was like a big step. That was a big difference. I was not on that Delta Chardonnay life like I was last year. It was nice to be here. Yeah, it was all. awesome to have the gang back together. It was awesome to talk about this show. There was a lot of genuine just sort of like excitement in the room watching it.

We watched it separately last year. We watched it New York and L.A. And to just be all in the same room checking it out together. You were kidding about what it's like watching it with Mallory. She's intense. I had no idea. She feels it. That's what makes her genius. I watched it in a room along with Jason last year and he's just very studious. Yes. Which is just taking notes.

This is going to be fun this year. Very studious, very loose with the lives of children when it comes to bargaining. Apparently, we're going to get to that. So you can watch us every Sunday after the scenes from next week of the East Coast airing of Game of Thrones, so that's like roughly 705,

but these episodes will get longer as the season goes on, I imagine. Then we're doing the watch Mondays and Thursdays. Obviously, Mondays are going to be dedicated to Game of Thrones, and we're going to talk a lot about that. Binge mode podcast is going to continue throughout the season, and we'll go on Wednesdays. So you can find stuff on the ringer.com about Game of Thrones like any and all times.

Allison Herman has a recap up. Andrew Grodarro already wrote about that Ed Shearing cameo that Andy loved so much. This is all, I think, kind of makes the ringer an outlier on the internet in that sense. You can find Game of Thrones content on it. We're like just, we're going our own way. You know what I mean? And if people want to follow our path, they can come on this journey with us. Leaders lead.

Yeah, that's great. I think that's really... I hear the NBA is coming soon too. Like everybody's been talking on like sub sub-sub-sub-redits. People are like the NBA is pretty cool. So we might start kicking to that too. That's okay. You should follow that wherever it leads.

Andy, so let's talk a little bit about Thrones for a while, and then we were going to talk about how, we have a couple of observations about the Disney convention that happened this weekend. In Los Angeles, a lot of news came out about Star Wars and Avengers and some other Marvel stuff. So we wanted to talk a little bit about that. And we also were going to just do a kind of random but still fun recap of the end of Master of Knowing because Andy finished that. I feel like you can put this on me as being the slowbook. I think maybe other Americans took their time watching this Emmy nominated series. and so we give people, we talk about, I feel like this is the new model,

especially for these binge shows. We talk about it when it debuts. There's something very funny going on right now with my binging. Yeah. That if I don't finish the season in the sustained, like, okay, we're watching two a night thing. Yeah.

I never do. We had to finish, like, I had to finish House of Cards, because I was like, I felt myself fading. Yeah, that's been my model, what you're saying. I think Daredevil Season 2 is waving at me from a distance very far away. 31 minutes in. But with these,

especially, look, it's well established that I prefer the 30-minute shows for binging. Your time is important. Well, it's also just more, I think it's more pleasurable. They feel more snackable in that way. But even so, I don't want to watch more than three in a night because you get burnout on them. So I think, you know, for Master of None, for Glow, which I think we'll hopefully hit on Thursday of this week, we'll come back to. Yeah, sure. Let's get to Glow and Peaks on Thursday.

Yeah. So, Peaks, I have to watch Night of. Last night, I came home from... Did you go home and watch Peaks last night? Damn! I can't live in a world. Where, like, other people are up on Peaks and you're not. No, it's just exists and I haven't seen it. That's great. That's fandom. Let me tell you. Two nice things, three nice things last night. Okay. Came home from our show. Beautiful evening in Los Angeles, suns setting. Turns out there was a Fleetwood Mac concert at Dodger Stadium last night. It's called the Classic Festival. Yeah, the Eagles had played.

Really pains me that I was not there. But I could hear Rianan full blasts. from my backyard. Really? Which was interesting. That was actually just me of the boombox in your backyard. That's okay. Say anything.

That came on to find that my wife who does not watch Game of Thrones watched our show, which I really appreciated, and then had an episode of Twin Peace waiting for me. My mom is not going to be watching Talk to Thrones this year

because she's afraid of getting hacked. That's fair. Yeah. That's totally fair. Let's talk a little bit about the episode with a little bit of time to digest. So season 7 premiere, Dragonstone.

Last night on Talk to Thrones, we went into all the vagaries of like why Dragonstone is important, with the various families, it's hosted and it's overcast walls. You hate Dragonstone. I'm fine with Dragonstone, but let's not pretend like Dragonstone's the goal.

That's my thing. When you go on. That's like being like we're the NL East champs. It's like, come on. Oh, yeah. Bigger goal. Yeah. When they put up like the division champ banner.

Yeah. I agree. Or how about if you have like an eight hour drive and it's getting late and you're tired, but you're like an hour and a half away and there's a motel? It's like, do you stop? Never.

You just push through. Drive all night. Trucker speed. Get there. It was interesting for me because, you know, I wondered if there would be a little bit more kind of a mezzo-mezzo reaction to the episode because it was relatively stayed. They was throat clearing exposition. But the truth is this is a show that people love. This is a show that we love.

It's fun to get back into it. And so this is, and they've learned at this point, seven seasons in, the first. the season premiere is the time to just show off where your chest pieces are, to literally draw a map on the ground to remind people because everyone's just happy to be there. Yeah, there's a couple real flex moments

where I felt like, we had noticed last season that maybe getting off book was allowing the writers of the show to imbue it with some of their own personalities, maybe. I think that, I forgive me if I'm wrong, but a scene like the Sam montage,

which went from nauseating to hilarious, I don't think they would have done that in the first few seasons. No, and I agree, both in terms of just the fun of it, the sort of the lightness, the humanity of it, and also it served a purpose because it yada yaddaed the repetition of his life because by the end of the episode, he found what he was looking for in the beginning of it. They're going to have to do a lot of stuff with time over the net. And I'm not talking about Brand's vision in the beginning of the episode. I mean, literally, there are people crisscrossing oceans with boats of varying degrees of seaworthiness.

and I ain't talking about Davos here. We said last night on Talk the Thrones that things seem almost impossible without some serious go-fast boats because the hound and Barrick and Thoros appear to be moving northward into the snow towards Eastwatch by the sea where a big battle seems to be brewing.

Sure. The other thing we know from hanging out with Mallory and Jason is that they want and expect the hound to fight the mountain, which would have to happen in King's Landing, and probably has to happen concurrent with the fall of the Lannisters, probably, because how do you get to Circe? I mean, unless it's an inside job from her brother,

but that's a whole separate issue. So that's a lot of up and down still to come, all for things that are not probably the end of the season. So, yeah, so there's going to be a lot of that. So there's a lot of stuff going on. It was definitely like a degree of a throat clearing episode. What do you want to touch on first? I mean, like, well, I would like to take a moment here because on Talk the Thrones and on Binge Mode,

there's going to be a lot of room for speculation about deep, specific things to the Martinverse. But I was struck by a piece that Matt Zaller Sites wrote for Vulture Today, his review of the season premiere. And basically, in the piece, he says, and I can just say what it was called, Game of Thrones has become more empathetic and complex in its final leg. And he's making, essentially, he's written down the argument that we've been batting around verbally on the show, which is that there really seems to have been a difference

when they threw off the shackles of the books. Now, that's not fair to call them shackles, but that the thing that he didn't like as a viewer, and I think I would agree with this as a pure viewer, the only thing about the show that sometimes rubbed us the wrong way seemed to come from a slavish devotion

to just dumping plot, to doing justice to the stories, or at least the major plot points and characters as written in the book, it could feel stilted. Episodes could feel like info dumps in a way. Now, they were the most glorious info dumps ever recorded on television, but they could feel that way.

And there suddenly was, and this is interesting because the plot got a lot darker in a lot of ways last year, and there's a lot more death to come. But the show felt lighter in all senses. There was more room for humanity for jokes for Samuel Tarley Megamixus. And heavier. I mean, I thought that, in a sense that it had an emotional resonance that I think that for me, I know like the scene just between and all jokes aside about their like sexual relationship

but the Sersey and Jamie scene where he's just like we haven't even talked about the fact that our kid swan dived out of his house you know and she's just like that's like that was essentially you know like an Edward Alby scene or whatever that is just like a new your usual domestic heartbreak over the tragic loss of a child that gets swept aside

literally because they're standing on a map of the known world that they're going to try and dominate Yes, and let's always remember the human cost of it. Let's remember the engagement of fans like us who are watching this in ways similar to the way we watch other television shows, which demands emotional check-ins on where we are with these people and their lives and their choices and their hardships. I thought it was telling that for the super, super fan,

not just Mallory and Jason, but the book readers, that it was so clear-cut that the most important thing that happened last night was DeNaris and the Dragons returning to Dragonstone. Yes, that is huge. hugely important for the forward momentum plot of the show. No question. It is unspeakably important for people who have been immersed in this world for 20 years to see something that they've been waiting for. I don't mean to discredit that at all or devalue that at all. But for TV viewers who are watching more cumulatively in a shorter amount of time, having the space for those emotional

moments to remember why we care about these things, not just because it's cool or not just because we're headed towards something that has been promised. Sure. Really matters. Yeah, yeah. And so I was thinking that, you know, this is a recurring theme for us across a number of series that I think we agree on, that TV shows, especially in this age of inventiveness in terms of narrative storytelling,

TV shows teach us how to watch them. We are not always prepared for what the show is going to be, how we engage with it week to week, whether we binge it, whether we space it out. Game of Thrones, as with so many other things, has completely, completely redefined. what it means to watch and engage with something, you know. Because the other aspect of Matt Sites' piece that I thought was noteworthy was he was talking about last night's episode, and he was talking about things that in his mind seemed to tweak the gender and sexual politics

that were divisive earlier in the season. Early in the series. Sorry, early in the series, correct. Seeing Aria wipe out a family of murderous rapy men, for example, the looks that Brienne and Sansa Exchange when Leanna-Mormont is just dunking on dudes in the Great Hall of Winterfell. I think that's a valid point to make. But I would also argue, and this was very difficult to argue when I was in the trenches

of writing about each episode, that maybe this was the point of Martin's books all along, which was he was showing and the show, showing the horror of the world and the misogyny and cruelty and violence of the world in total because there was a long arc towards showing something different. that's an impossible argument to make for a TV show full stop. You can't say, well, we're going to do this in season three because it's going to pay off in season seven. Only Game of Thrones had the long game to be able to do that. And I think on some level, that's what they were doing.

But it's also what made the job of those of us who were in the trenches episode to episode and made our job impossible. I love writing those recaps of every episode for Grantland. I don't envy those who still have to do it. To read Alan Seppinwall last night, he's like, well, it's bogged down again in a way. It bogged down in the sense that this was an episode that gave 10 minutes to every character incrementally. One thing about Benny Offen Weiss, they have been consistent with this. They have never cared about the episode as an individual art form for the most part. I would, whether they care about it or not, I'm not going to ascribe authorial intent to them,

but they've got it because yesterday was essentially like a pop culture Super Bowl, in terms of everything from the countdown clock to the extent to which there was post-game shows. obviously. There's other shows and Gizmodo's got a show. Like these other places, you know, we have experts, we have pundits, we have analysis, we have play by play. So yeah, they may think of one

as a prelude or prologue to two, or they may think next season is going to be three films, or however this winds up getting divided up in their head. Whether they like it or not, whether we like it or not, and I love it. I mean, there's just, every week I feel,

behind on things, but Game of Thrones is something that, like, whether I was doing the show or not, I would just be like, it's Sunday at 5.30, let's sit down. You know what I mean? Like, let's do this. I completely agree with you. I guess what I would... Just to clarify, what I was saying more is that,

you know, to watch an episode of Game of Thrones on a Sunday, second or third episode, everything you're saying is what it has become. That's how we watch it, how we celebrate and how we engage with it. The old world, which is suitable, since the old world is dying away on the show

of watch the episode and then the episode had specific themes point of view about one character a storyline that didn't end in that episode but had some significant inflection points and then we write a recap of it and sort of tussle over the meaning of that episode

in miniature has never really applied to Game of Thrones. It has always been about the larger experience and you know what it's funny because you mentioned themes and one of the things I wanted to talk about was the subtle theme that came out last night of the way the information gets shared within the world of the show.

So my favorite part, one of my favorite parts was the Jim Robbins scene where he's this archmaister and he's going through this dissection of a corpse and autopsy or whatever and they're weighing these organs and Sam's just like covered in blood

after being covering God knows what beforehand. And they're talking about whether or not the white walkers are going to be able to get through the wall or what Sam's seen and all this stuff in the Dragonstone, Dragon Glass. And he's like, you know, broadband basically says this thing which is very funny after, you know,

the year or so that we've had in this country or whatever, but it's just like, yeah, you know, people thought the world was going to end here and here and here, and it almost did here. But every time the world didn't end, and every time we're the institutional memory for the world. Like we are men's memory and without memory, guys are just, men are just dogs.

This show has done a lot to show that men can be dogs. But I thought it was fascinating. And dogs can eat men. I thought it was really, really interesting to see, you know, it's something we don't talk about a lot. But how do people learn things on this show? And there is like the, they have the get out of jail free card with Ravens. Like you can just be like send a Raven. And that just kind of knocks it out.

But Jason was obviously getting like agitated at one point. I can't remember what the scene was. Maybe it was when Sam reads about the dragon glass underneath Dragonstone or the underground mountain on Dragonstone of Dragon Glass. And he was like, send a raven. Send a raven. Like, get it. And you realize, like, John didn't know about the Knights of the Vale until, you know, they came through and saved the day. And he's still pretty salty about it, you know?

And Sam is down here in the Citadel, but he has information. He needs to get to points north. And you've got people who are operating in parallel tracks of each other and not know. knowing where, they don't know that you're on has gotten to Kings Landing and left. You know, I mean, when do they find these things out? And there's the Varus's spies and there's ravens. But I think that the flow of information is actually going to be a subtly important thing on this show. And belief in that information, trusting that, yes, Sam is right.

And you may have looked into a fire for this, but it's important for us to get to the ocean castle in the north. That's the thing. You know, one thing that makes me think of that is particularly interesting about Game of Thrones and relevant to our life is the classism in the faith built into this bedrock faith in institutions, which is to say the archmaister is saying, we are the memory of the world, without us men are dogs, without us, it all would have ended, but it didn't. And it's, we are able to sit here and weigh hearts and minds and basically be like, we're going to be fine. for as much as they know about the world the man and his daughter whose skeletons we saw

didn't matter them you know what I mean like the show does it did a very nice job of reminding us of how the little people in this world yeah the soldiers that are you met on the road get chewed up and spit out and it doesn't matter what people knew or didn't know for that man and his daughter it got cold and they couldn't have food anymore You don't need to be an archmaister to know that. Yeah.

You just, it doesn't help you. So why should you care? So we, you know, and that is, all of the stuff the archmaister saying is essentially human, right? Like if we don't know things, then we are animals. But also knowing that if you don't have food and it's cold, you will die is also essentially human. Yeah. And to try to stretch this, I don't know how I can do this. I might need your help on this.

But we do live in an era now, right, where we all feel entitled. to not only know everything, but reap the benefits of everything. And I don't want to say feel entitled because we should. We should all be able to not die and be cared for when we're sick, but that's a separate digression.

But this idea of, okay, so you can barricade knowledge. I'm jumping all over the points, but you can keep knowledge locked up. The perfect example we were talking about is the climate change debate that happened out of the New York Magazine article last week where it was just like there was this immediate cycle

of something was a story. obviously not a story like fiction but there was a piece and then there was an immediate backlash to that piece from various sides and then there was this defense of the piece that happened and by the end of the week it would be the story had become more about the piece

the footnotes this that the other thing than it was are we flying into the sun you know and I think that that happens a lot because you have so much access to everybody having a voice which is at once great and it can be not great. And then, so I think actually that does apply to what we're seeing where if people think that Sam is scaremongering or if people think that Sam doesn't, hasn't cleaned out enough

bathroom pots to earn the right to get to read a certain book, that's going to slow down response time when they have to like. Well, it's a great analogy actually because let's talk about the reaction to that New York magazine piece, one of which was scientists. saying, oh, don't scare people. Yeah, right. Stop it. Like, because when faced with existential destruction, doomism, people throw up their hands.

But if instead you say, well, if you take your kombucha bottles and you put them in the blue container, you're going to help. Yeah. People like to do, you know, think global. I'm ready to join Owen Wilson. Yeah. And just dig. And whatever we need to do.

You had me. Let's join Owen Wilson. But that is relevant to this show because you have. have in the John and Sansa scenes, for example, where John is saying, I have seen literally the king of death. Yeah, word. Coming. And she's just, yeah.

She's like, you forgot that Circy Lanister is also your energy. And she's like, she's like a thousand miles away. Yeah. We're like, you can see the snow. That's bad. Yeah. It, it is, that is one of the most interesting and essential things of being human, which is how do we manage?

Like, I have a tummy ache today, but also democracy is dying. Well, there's also, I love how. You know, we've talked about. how, you know, the books obviously create a huge amount of history. This show has been going on long enough to have its own history. And I think people identify very closely with the actors and with the, you know, with the performances, but also with the characters as we see them on the screen. And that was one of the really interesting scene when Sansa and John are having this debate

about, you know, what makes a good ruler. And she's like, you're a good ruler. You know, I've, and she's obviously been around a few. But she's saying, like, I've learned a lot, you know, Searcy taught her a lot and that this idea that, you know, you can't make the same mistakes that the other stark men made. You can't make the mistakes of, you know, basically kindness that Rob and Ned made and whether or not, like, you'll survive that.

And that was like a very, I felt like that was a very, and Jason had a different reaction to I think that you did. And it was very interesting to see, like, some people being like Sanchez-Rite. Yeah, well, because Jason is watching the show. as a scholar, you know, not just like a sports fan, but like this has been his life for the last few months

and the books for even longer. And so he, you know, and he's been continuing this argument on Twitter today, basically saying, like, John really fucked up. John needed to take those children. He didn't have to kill him, but he should have just taken them prisoner.

He needed to do this, and he's going to be punished for it. And, you know, I, let me just apologize in advance because I generally don't love, like, who in politics is the Game of Thrones character. Sure. But let's think about the idea of they go low, we go high, right? Uh-huh. A very large frustration that the left, and I include ourselves in this, had with President Barack Obama, was just crush him.

Get it done. Why is he always trying to be, why is he always taking the high road? Well, that was more something that came out during the election. No, but that was the criticism throughout. Like, why is he negotiating a grand bargain with John Boehner? Why does he feel like it is important to do this? They will never work with you. I think it was because he wanted to participate in some of the traditions and pageantry of the office, just the same way that he didn't come out the day after the election and was like,

that's what I mean. He was like, no, there's a process. This has a demo. There's a not just a process, but these things are delicate. Yeah. And if we do not behave in a certain way, they will fall apart. Right. And we need to hold up our end of the bargain even when another side might not be holding up their end of the bargain.

Or we need to try to or project that. I think that if he wanted to get into a more detailed argument with that. Sansa, he could have said something to the extent when she's just like, these people fought for Ramsey. And he was like, yeah, and to like kill them and throw and give their houses to other people would be something Ramsey would do. And she might say, I know

he was doing very well until I came along with the Knights of the Vale. This speaks to, I think, one of the more fascinating. They should have a part in the interruption where it's just John and Sansa arguing with each other about this stuff. But this is one of the more fascinating windows into the show and I think into fandom in terms of what we want out of storytelling.

Because I still have a an optimistic, romantic vision of fiction, right? Where I want John Snow to be like Ned and be a good leader and a better leader in some ways. And there are other people who are like, you need to be a street fighter. You need to hire Roger Stone and you need to hire him for your side or else you won't win. And that's Sansa. And that might be the divide. Sanza is Roger Stone.

No, she'd hire Roger. Little finger is Roger Stone, obviously. I'm just doing literally now the thing I said I wouldn't do. But what, you know. I need to make a special record. for Concepcion to do an Info Wars as Littlefinger. He could do one. Yeah.

I just mean that this is the end game that is more fascinating in many ways than the game that we've seen up to this point. The show taught us for many seasons that heroes aren't going to win, that idealism is going to be punished, that Prince Valiant is going to have his head cut off. Now we are into the end game, and it does seem set up for good to prevail. I mean, we're going to lose some pals along the way, but good is going to prevail to some degree. I mean, it would be rough if the Night King is just like, Gotcha. Yeah, I won. And that's the end and then it's nice. Yeah. So that'll be the thing to watch. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so let's

take a quick break to hear from our sponsors and then we'll be back. We're going to talk a little Avengers, Star Wars, and Master of Done. Today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by Hotel Tonight. If you are like me and you're not so great of planning ahead, I've got news for you. There is this awesome app called Hotel Tonight that helps you find amazing hotel deals at the last minute. I just used it this weekend. to goon it up in Laguna Beach, went to Tammu Salani's Steakhouse. Those are so many words.

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So it's great last second. It's great sort of medium, midterm planning. You know, not long-term planning. All it takes 10 seconds, just three taps and a swipe. So get in on these killer last minute deals and download the Hotel Tonight app now. Andy, today's episode of The Watch is brought to you by a Game of Thrones enhanced edition. This is exciting. For people who have been listening to us for a while, listening to us to talk about Game of Thrones,

across many podcasts and television shows, they know one thing. They know we have been book agnostic. Yeah, I would say that we like to read. I love to read. But we have not been, we've never made the time, nor have we maybe found the right way to get into the Game of Thrones books. But I feel like the winds of winter are starting to change. Oh, they're blowing in the positive direction.

My freezing cold drift. These Game of Thrones Enhanced Edition books, which are available on iBooks, are really cool, I have to say. This whole idea of, you know, we talk about on TV a lot, like the second screen experience. This is a way to read the books and have a full immersive, interactive experience while you're doing it. For example, at the beginning of every chapter of these enhanced editions, there is a map showing you where the character is and where he is in relation to the rest of the world. Anytime a character is introduced, you can click on the character's name. And no more Wikipediaing while you're reading. Literally, who is that?

Yeah. Where have we seen this person before? How are they related? There are author notes from George R. Martin. It's all, I mean, there are few stories as interconnected as The Song of Ice and Fires. I even know what it's called. Yeah. These enhanced editions show us all the connections.

Yeah, Game of Thrones enhanced editions basically replicates the best parts of Game of Thrones fandom. The cool thing about this story is it's not just a story. It's also history. It's also geography. It's also mythology. It's all these things. And you really do feel the multi-dimensional element of George R.R. Martin's story come to life in a way that almost, you know, I wouldn't say the show doesn't do. But I would say that it is an indispensable tool for anybody who is already very familiar with Gamma Thrones, maybe you're doing a reread.

Maybe you've been inspired by binge mode. You want to do a rewatch or whatever. But if you're rereading these books and you want to learn more, or if it's your first. time through. I can't imagine reading them without this one. If you are a fan of the TV show like we are and maybe you are a little just intimidated by the heft and breadth of this story

and all the extra characters that you're going to have to keep track of, this is the way to go into it. Here's the thing. These enhanced editions are available exclusively on iBooks. So go to apple.co. slash game of Thrones. I'll say it again. Apple.com slash Game of Thrones to check them out. They're not available

in every country, but they're probably available. Probably available where you're listening. I have to say that, you know, if you've been thinking about starting to read these books like Andy and I have, I mean, I think we always sort of joked about it, but we did always feel a slight disadvantage because we didn't quite know everything about these characters

and everything about this world. I can't think of a better way to start. And I can't think of a better way to jump right into this with then the Game of Thrones enhanced editions. It is a lot of fun. I mean, reading books on e-readers, iPads, has been great, But this is the first example I've seen of taking something great, like reading and making it even better. A Game of Thrones enhanced editions.

Greenwald, we're back. I want to talk a little bit about hotels. Well, I guess I want to talk a little bit about Disney. Not hotel tonight. Well, not hotel tonight. No. So the D-23 convention was this weekend in Anaheim. It's Disney's big shindig where they announce a lot of, like, we can talk a little bit about like Marvel State Phase 3 or 4 or whatever.

Especially some great public appearances by some of our favorite. Don't burn it. We got to burn it. But I want to get really quickly into this thing that was unveiled at D23, a Star Wars-inspired themed resort at Walt Disney World in Orlando, Florida. Now, I may or may not have spoken about this in the past. I love Disney World. I mean, it was a very big thing for me when I was a kid.

I used to stay at Caribbean Beach. Did you? Yeah, I loved it. I stayed at the one the Monorill went through. Yeah, I did not have Monorail. I just had a bus. So there's 1983 that's when you went. Yeah.

So you were six? Yeah, six. Okay. I did like a little later. Epcot had just opened. I did it but, you know, 26, 27, 28. When I went, when I went, Epcot had just opened and you know how in actual Disney world there are people dressed up as Mickey and Goofy and they're wandering around. In Epcot, in the early years of Epcot, you know, there's a part of Epcot that's like nations.

And you visit the countries and like eat terriaki in Japan or whatever. You go on a log flume in Norway. the shit goes backwards and a troll jumps out of you. Don't undersell the flume. Don't spoil it. What? You guys got to know about the flume. Here's what they don't know the kids is that back then at each country they had giant dress-up

cosplay ethnic stereotype. They look like Russian nesting dolls with like weird like doll faces and it was like Norwegian lady. So in addition to pictures of me with like Captain Hook or whatever. There's... Compromot. Some racist photographs of you. There's literally pictures of me

with a blow-up version of Mickey Rooney and Breakfast at Tiffany's. Nice. They, this was a different time. Okay, so they're opening up this Star Wars themed hotel in Disney World.

I don't know when they're going to open this up. Probably take a couple years. Probably never. It's a terrible idea. My man Bob Chapec, the chairman of Walt Disney Parks and Resorts. A former colleague of us. I'm going straight.

I could go to various aggregated news stories. I'm going straight to Disneyparks. Disney.go.com. Do you have that bookmarked? Yes. And according to Bob, this revolutionary new vacation experience will be a living adventure that allows guests to immerse themselves in an entirely new form of Disney storytelling. Quote, it is unlike anything that exists today.

From the second you arrive, it will be part of a Star Wars story exclamation point. You'll immediately become a citizen of the galaxy. And experience all that entails, including dressing up in the proper attire. Once you leave Earth, you will discover a starship alive with characters, stories, and adventures that unfold all around you. It is 100% immersive, and the story will touch every single minute of your day and will culminate in a unique journey for every person who visits. So the hotel, every room in this hotel, apparently instead of a window with a view and

actual UV rays coming through the window to let you know it's daytime is a fucking window that looks into outer space. Yeah. Right. What does this all sound like? It sounds like Westworld. Spoiler. It sounds like Westworld.

Yeah. What's the point? You find out. Okay, I'm really excited because in Westworld, if you had just been like, do you want to be a cowboy? Number 96 out of 100 reasons why I would want to be a cowboy is to go have sex. Right. Prostitution, having sexual adventures was never part of it. In fact, I would venture, I would like to propose that when I watch Westerns, I'm never like, man, it would be dope to have sex in the Old West.

It seems like the easiest, fastest track to dying was having sex. And these were people who just died of polio every day for no reason at all. Can you imagine being someone who fires up true grit and just like, yo, I like Rooster Cogburn, but what if he fucks though? That's what I'm saying. So that was always the fucking funniest thing about Westworld to me. Now they're building it, right? But here's the thing. Yeah.

I have never, if 96th out of 100 things that I would care about these. Old West would be like, and you know, maybe on like a cold night, I'd love some like human contact. I've never thought that about Star Wars. Now, granted, this is a Disney production. I don't think that they would be like, welcome to the Moss Isley Horr House. But isn't that the first thing you think of, like Westworld has ruined this idea now? So I'm just like, what salacious, grotesque alien orgy will you be participating in Greater

Orlando? Or like, hooray, let's check into a hundred. hotel that is under the thumb of an intergalactic fascist regime. But that's the thing. It's like, if somebody comes to me and it's just like, damn, you know what, I've been saving up. And instead of going to Paris or Croatia, I'm going to fucking Florida to live inside of a fake spaceship. I'll be like, what disgusting thing are you going to do with yourself in Florida? That question is evergreen.

Why haven't they thought of this? Why haven't they thought of this? Because I'm telling you, the black market on this thing is going to be insane. It's going to be so rich. It's like Star Wars drugs. Like, what's the Star Wars Red Light District like? How much extra do you have to pay for your room do you have like someone in slave layer costume with chains? Holy Christ.

You know what I mean? Like, if you go down to the... How many Bitcoins does that cost? How many Bitcoin does that cost? How many Disney dollars? To have the hut package. To have an obese Floridian. Just tell you how it's...

gonna be. You know what I mean? All you have to do oh my god man, so that's... This is a terrible idea. But is it? Is it cool though? Is it, would you, like if you could be wedge, if they were like, congratulations,

like your wedge. Here's what they forget. Let's go like shoots, like, no? Here's what they forget. Actors who are method acting are super annoying to hang out with. So let me tell you something. Every every MFA undergraduate at the University of Central Florida

will be just making extra bucks dressing up as bounty hunters. As a ton ton tamer. Right. Who's wandering around on an 8 p.m. to 8 a.m. shift in the lobby. You know what I mean? I don't even mean like you want me to check your phaser for you. That's Star Trek.

I fail. But you know what I mean? Yeah. Like that's going to be so annoying. But I just want to know, like, can you get a bad story? What if they're like, welcome to Florida, getting this trash compactor asshole? It's like, shoot your way out of this garbage. It's not, first of all, smuggler. First of all, welcome to Florida asshole, shoot yourself out of this garbage is actually the state motto. It's on the license plate.

It actually is on the motto now. My final question is, what happens when Phil Lord and Chris Miller show up? And they're like, we got a story for you guys. How does that play? Oh, man. Okay, so I'm going to be keeping my eye on that story. First of all, I know it didn't count as one, but that was a hotel tonight, because you're basically saying,

bad hotel experience, good hotel experience. What else from this weekend of Marvel News do you want to talk about? Marvel and Disney News. I just want to talk about how... Oh, really quickly, just while we're still in Star Wars. They did release this behind-the-scenes video. I didn't see it yet. Of Last Jedi, and it looks dope.

Everyone seems to be having a good time, right? It's just like also like the sincerity with which Daisy Ridley and everybody is just like Ryan Johnson is that dude. Yeah. And just wrote like a very surprising beautiful script. I just can't. I'm really excited. Me too. I can't believe it's coming in December.

It also is. I feel like it's sneaking up on me. It's the perfect timing here because everyone had such a, there was such goodwill coming off of Force Away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That definitely outweigh, even people can now say, well, the movie wasn't great in a lot of ways, but boy, it's back and the experience is great. The cast is great. So they're all feeling it. They're vibing off of it.

it. They were probably feeling great filming this movie because of the success of the first one. Then they come in with one filmmaker who's just like, relax, I got this. Right. This is all set up to be a good film. Right. I just wanted to talk about briefly the modern experience of being an actor obviously involves... An actor in one of these, like, huge technical franchises. Full stop. You basically have to engage with the mainstream culture of cinema now to be an actor.

You can be Brie Larson and you can win an Oscar and you can be in the Glass Castle, but you're also going to do Captain Marvel. You basically dip a toe in, right? It's just everyone is dirty at some point or everyone is kicking up at one point. What they don't talk about is to do this then. You also have to engage with fan culture in a totally different way. It's been interesting to read these interviews with like Dana Ashbrook who played Bobby on Twin Peaks. And the questions are, you know, they're polite ways of saying, what have you been doing for 25 years?

And he's been going to conventions. Going to conventions. Just going to London, hanging out with Cheryl Lee and other people who are on that circuit. But there is a slightly, like, you know, prestigey version of that. But now it is to be in the Marvel Cinematic Universe means when they call you and tell you to get a car to Anaheim, or to San Diego, and come out on stage and wave and smile and pal around with people you maybe hate, you got to do it. I don't either. But so they did this Infinity War thing with like 30 people came out and they all put their arms around each other and the Russo brothers. And they all seemed good.

And they had like WWE entrances. Yeah, they were all psyched. And then they'd be like, yeah. I feel like everyone is on board, but I do just want to flag Paul Bettney. Yeah, man. Let's fucking talk about Paul, man. Paul, all the other dudes, they know they show up in like a distressed gray t-shirt. Maybe they throw a leather jacket over it.

Everyone wants to be near a ruffalo because that guy just puts his arms around people like nobody's business. Everybody's thrilled. They welcome the newcomers in. They probably all know the best spots to go in Atlanta. There's a Schlotsky's I've heard about. It's not bad. Betany. Betty.

Betany seemed to arrive directly on the express flight from the island of Dr. Moreau. Yeah, he's been doing, playing a one-man show of Colonel Mustard in a fucking dinner theater somewhere on the island of Dr. Moreau. He shows up in white linen with a collar taller than Don Cheadle, which I know isn't saying much. Tinted like Morpheus sunglasses from the Matrix, like where he's just like, you expect him to just be like, what if I told you? You know, nobody wanted to be near Beny. That's what I'm saying. Now, is he method acting? Classic vision.

I'm a synthesoid and this is just, I'm not human. Or is he actually not human? I don't know. I mean, I think that he's, he initially, him and Renner, anecdotally, from like, my read of the blogs, like, over the last 10 years. Yeah, you check the blogs. Are the most sort of, like, not cynical. Renner is just often, like, I have no idea what's happening in these movies. They tell me to show up and shoot a bow and.

arrow and then I break both of my arms and then like next thing I know I've been like he's just like just tell me where to stand but like it's kind of very like these movies don't quite make sense to me. Betney has been even more just like I'm not like mean about it but I think

was like this was like sure I'll play the like the Butler for a minute and I was like now I'm in nine movies and I'm a major character in the Avengers he definitely in some ways it's a big W because he gets to be in the biggest movies in the world I'm sure he gets paid well and he's very good in that part.

But in other ways, it's actually the reverse Downey. Because the brilliance of Robert Downey Jr.'s career right now is he makes all the money in the world, has all the fun he wants, for a part that is essentially them filming his head in front of a green screen. And they can remote control the suits.

He did a lot of stuff in Civil War. Spider-Man, he is essentially like... What I'm saying is they can dial it back. He can either... He doesn't have to do that much. He doesn't want to. He's like Adam Schaefter shooting a hit for Sports Center and Spider-Man.

Right. Yeah. it's the reverse for Betney who started as just voiceover being sort of pithy. Yeah. And then now has to spend nine hours getting painted red. That's because you can you imagine like whoever told Betany like you've got to get it on

this voiceover kick man. It's so great. It's so sweet. You go in for three months and the next thing you know you're a panda. But like Bettney is like sure. Okay cool. Like I could just like, you know, I'll buy the Quaker school then. Like I'll just be and he goes in and he does two things where he's like a butler and then the next thing you know he's like

having some like deeply emotional relationship with Scarlet Witch. You know, like it's insane. But in full body pain. Yeah, I know. So I guess he can be forgiven for not wanting to go to Anaheim. Well, maybe he did. And it's just like he's playing, it's a bit. He's like doing a bit.

He's like everybody knows. You know who was psyched to be in Anaheim? Who? Mackey. Oh, yeah. Mackie is just, Mackey can turn it on. Mackey and Stan. Mackey and Stan were really ready to hang.

What else do we have? Okay, so that's pretty much it. They're wrapping up phase three with these two Avengers movies. Yeah. And then the phase four stuff, I think is, is that Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Ant Man 2? I guess so. Yeah. Although some of those, Black Panther will come out before the second Avengers movie.

Oh, okay. So that's part of Phase 3. I guess. So we'll dive deeper into this. They showed footage of Roland getting brolic on planet Earth. Are you prepared for that? Thanos, like, they're just like, Thanos is a heat check.

Could be, are you prepared for Broughton, prepared for this level of rolling? Josh Swollen? Josh has been lifting weights, dog. Of course he has. He's been getting brolic. This is, this is, Josh Brolic. Josh Brolic or Josh Swollen.

Either way, it's happening. Let's do an abrupt curveball left turn. Let's switch a TV. Yeah, sure. Or streaming television. You're less interested in this? Of course, I have no like a long, long-form imitation of a MNFA student living in central Florida.

I want to talk about Master of Nud. Yeah, man. I finished this quite a while ago, so. As did many people. I'm going to sit in the backseat. The response to this was rapturous. Emmy nominated across the board raves profiles of Aziz for his artistic abilities and vision and integrity. and this is, I finished the season,

and I have a reaction that I'm gonna try out with you here because basically I felt a little frustrated by it. Good, this isn't going out to anyone, so this is a private moment for us. Intimate. I feel a little frustrated by the show. Okay. And I don't know if that is legitimate,

but as a former and still struggling to pick the habit critic. You don't have to preface it. Your opinions are valid no matter how you make your money. I think, For the most part, the show sidles up to really interesting things and then parks. Okay. And never gets out of the car. So, but literally it gets stuck in the alley like they did in the second episode.

Exactly right. Yeah. hilarious and insightful and interesting and the performances are often terrific. But I want more from this show. Now, the reason why I'm sort of hedging is because I don't want to discredit what the show just does by existing.

That the very legitimate arguments of representation on television, on streaming, and comedy, in the sort of ambitious small-screen filmmaking that we're seeing here, those arguments need to be made. And the show sustains it. Yeah. You know.

I also think that there's... We're not getting another show about Muslim millennials eating pork. Right. That's... I also think that there's... So there's a couple... I think one of the things to the key to understanding, Master of Nunn, which I liked very much, the second season. And I think that it's like several distinct shows that were packaged together as a season.

And I don't mind that at all. Like, I think that we've kind of like, this is not unlike the conversation about Baby Driver, where we're coming back to the degree to which expectations. or the degree to which packaging, the degree to which how we watch something affects how we feel about it, what we think of it? Which is not to discredit what you're saying, which I think is completely valid,

that it gets very close to revelatory ideas and statements and then kind of like coasts. There's a retreat often as if, and it reminds me of the internet, which is to say if just by being right about an issue, that's enough. So Bobby Cannavalli is Josh Barala. this season on the show as

Chef Jeff. Anthony Brolic Dane. Yeah, we'll workshop that. At the end of the season, it's revealed that he is a serial abuser of women. And that sort of is a problem for Dev.

The show successfully articulates the insidious ways that sexual harassment can work for people. There's a scene where Dev talks to the makeup lady about how it worked for her. Now, she didn't press charges or anything because she just wanted to move on with her life.

Dev is correct, in his opinion, about Chef Jeff and what it means for their future together and their friendship, and then it walks away. I'm not saying the show needed to be about sexual harassment, but in that and in a number of other ways, I mentioned the Muslims and Pork thing. The episode ended with them saying, this is how I feel, and everyone's saying,

okay, this speaks to, I think, my bigger criticism about the show, which is that Dev, Aziz Ansari's character, is flawless. he's essentially always right, always pretty cool, always knows the right restaurants to go, the right pasta to order, the right suits to wear, and it never pushes past that.

Well, it's hard to be aspirational and relatable, right? True. So there's a degree which we always reward shows for creating a world, and this is obviously a world that we want to spend time in because you and I both like a nice cocktail and a nice meal and good furniture and all these things that you... I wish I could wear blazers like those guys. Yeah, I think that that's what I was sort of talking about,

where religion, New York, I love you, first date, Thanksgiving, those are all one package. Then there's the bookend Antonioi and Woody Allen homages that are the two Italian episodes at the beginning and the last, and the second of the last one, and the last one about Francesca, right? And then in between there's some hijinks, there's some other stuff. But for the most part, I think that this is essentially two almost different stories. and that in a way it would have been good to make a five-episode season about Francesca and then kind of have like five episodes that were just like these sketches that he does of New York City living.

I guess. I can appreciate that, but I also like the fact that they were trying to... I'm fine with them putting it all together. And so the thing about Netflix as it comes up, it's not like I'm thinking, oh, well, you know, like from last week to this week it really didn't transition to those two things. It's like, this is just like a bunch of stuff to watch. It's just what I mean is this is a role that I think Aziz is comfortable playing. He is not very confessional in any ways, both having talked to him in person, but also the way he presents himself on stage and the characters he writes for himself.

And we compare this show to other autourish comedies or comedians. But the thing that unites Donald Glover, Louis C.K., even Woody Allen, is they take the scalpel to themselves. And they can show themselves in less than flattering lights. their own neuroses or their own, you know, I think that there's some stuff, especially towards the end of the season, about Dev's jealousy, and I think he gets...

I think that was pretty weak sauce, that part of it. Okay. You know, I think that that episode, the second last episode, where it's basically they have a relationship for a month, but they never kiss. First of all, it is beautifully directed. Aziz can direct.

That is gorgeous. Everything about New York and that, and Storm King, and the seasons and the snow and the colors and the lighting. I mean, this guy is super talented. But that episode was, for as much as it celebrated something that is always fun and romantic. And I really liked the romance of the season. That was something that I like best, actually. I really like the episode where he takes Francesca to Chef Jeff's Dinner. And there's that long Michael Clayton graduate tracking shot of the whole

ride home and the taxi that we haven't really seen before. And I loved the way it made me feel. I loved that performer who played Francesca. But that episode just, and then to the finale, turns on him being like, you used me. And he sort of just turns into a, a dude in a kind of snipey way. It didn't show us anything. It didn't go anywhere further emotionally. It was just, here's an emotional situation that we might understand and we can relate to.

Yeah. You know, and I frustrated because the talent is so enormous elsewhere, because New York I love you is such a wonderful episode, I want more. Yeah, it's a sumptuous show, the music, all the Paradise Garage music, all the, like, the cinematography is great, the setting.

I completely understand that there is a there-there problem. Yeah, but even thanks a, Thanksgiving, which was Emmy nominated. And, you know, Aziz wrote with Lena Waith, and it's her life. And he was very generous to give her that stage to tell that. And Angela Bassett is in this episode. Holy cats, is she good in it? At the end of that episode, I did feel like I was told a story, not necessarily that I was shown a story.

Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. And then what you're saying about aspiration, that's just the final point to make about it, that, again, I think it sort of frustrates me a little bit, which is, everyone's like, what a love letter to New York. I don't really recognize this New York. Now, maybe this is a millennial New York or a very well-off 30-something New York that I wasn't a part of. But honestly, Spider-Man Homecoming felt more in love with New York to me than this did.

Because in Spider-Man Homecoming, there is an extended riff on a bodega that makes good sandwiches, and there's a cat in the bodega. And then later with Donald Glover, like, they talk about the sandwiches and that unites them. That felt New York to me. I think the cool thing about New York for me is that Spider-Man Homecoming, Master of Nun, and Richard Price's Lush Life could all be about New York. And they could all be about somebody's idea of New York. That's fair. But I am curious why it's a popular joke to talk about Chandler's apartment on, or Monica's apartment on friends, and not talk about just the effortless comfort and wealth of Master of Nun.

Now, I'm not saying that's the fun way to watch the show. What's the cupcake show he's on? Clash of the cupcakes. It pays well. Everything works out for him. That doesn't necessarily make good comedy, is my point. That's all. No, it's a good point.

His apartment is gorgeous. I wish that I was young and childless enough to go to these bars in Williamsburg. Yeah. This is jealousy. There's no question. But I want a tougher show. That's all I want. I'm grateful we have it.

But that was, that's my bit. You made me think. And that's all I could ask for. Did I? Yeah, man. We'll be back on Thursday. we're going to talk Twin Peaks. We'll wrap up Glow. Yes. Then

Monday the following will probably just be back on our Thrones. Sunday nights. Talk the Thrones on Twitter. You can find us at Twitter.com slash ringer. You can find us on our Twitter feeds. Binge mode is on Wednesdays for the deep dive into the world. Game of Thrones with Mal and Jason. You can catch

us every Sunday. Thank you so much for listening and watching. Great job, Branske. Ringer Podcast Network. Today's episode of the watch was brought to you by Insecure Season 2 Creator and star Issa Ray is back with a brand new season of her deeply relatable HBO series. Set in Inglewood, Season 2 of Insecure finds Issa dealing with the fallout of her infidelity and resulting breakup with long-term boyfriend Lawrence.

Despite her attempts to maintain a positive facade, Issa secretly hopes that she can win him back. Meanwhile, Lawrence begins to move forward without her. Bye, Lawrence. This summer, Insecure isn't holding back, and life is hella out there. Watch the season 2 premiere of Insecure July 23 to 10.30 p.m. on HBO. Today's episode of The Watch was brought to you by a Game of Thrones enhanced edition. Andy, George R.R. Martin's Game of Thrones. There's a new I-Books version of this called Enhanced Editions,

and it is just bringing these storylines, these characters, to life in a fun and interactive way. If you, like us, have been on the fence about reading the Song of Ice of Fire series, the five books that have been out there informing the TV show that we all know and love, this is the time to get in. These books are really, really cool. The enhanced edition to every chapter, there is a map showing you where the characters are. Every character name is clickable for a hyperlink

explaining who they are, what their sigil is, what the heck they're doing and where they've been. It is the most immersive way to experience George R.R. Martin's crazy in-depth books. You go from being like basically a remedial fan of this story to being a professor of this story. These books are available exclusively on iBooks. You can go to apple.com. Game of Thrones. Again, Apple.com slash Game of Thrones, check them out. They are not available in all

countries, but they are probably available where you live. And if you've been thinking about getting into the books, or if you've read the books and wanted a more deeply immersive, interactive experience, can't recommend this more highly. It's George R.R. Martin's Game of Thrones enhanced editions.